gtfo-chat

[rose nova]

i mean u could mod but thats on another server

.t modding

[foggy plank]

GTFO doesn't officially support mods and we don't allow them to be played in public lobbies or voice channels on this server, and lengthy discussions should also be avoided (mentioning them is perfectly fine). However, we do recognize that a GTFO modding community exist and if you are interested in them, you are welcome to join the independent modding community Discord server. https://discord.gg/rRMPtv4FAh (If you have any more questions, please read rule #12 in the rules channel for more information.)

[winged narwhal]

No, you can't mod for alts.

You can mod for the originals.

[rose nova]

nope but u get the other versions i guess

somethin is somethin

[winged narwhal]

Which aren't the same because you won't get completions or drip

Well, not unless you also install the LocalProgression mod, but whatever. Still no drip.

[analog flicker]

even modded server doesn't allow Original rundowns (because devs suck)

[winged narwhal]

then why are there 3 mods to play the original rundowns?

[sharp owl]

how many rundowns are there to play total? do they cycle every few weeks?

[rose nova]

nope
all the rundowns r here to stay now

and theres R1, 2, 3, and 7 rn

soonish we will have R4

[sharp owl]

Is 7 alot harder than R1

I dont understand how the ranking works lol

or is the designation just what guns you get

[winged narwhal]

the difficulty is moreso the level's tier, ABCDE

[rose nova]

uh so
game used to work, again, like fortnite seasons
rundown 1 came out, and when rundown 2 arrived it replaced the first one, and then rundown 3 replaced r4 and so on
on R7 the devs decided to bring those old rundowns back

[winged narwhal]

rundowns used to have rundown specific weapons, but they're now being pooled so all weapons will be available in any level

[rose nova]

the rundowns dont really have an order, is just how they were coming out

[winged narwhal]

R1 is a lot simpler than the others because of how early in development it was

[sharp owl]

so is difficulty only based on how deep the level is

[winged narwhal]

But other than that the main difference is that R7 coming later means there are more mechanics for the level

[rose nova]

yes, the A tier is simple, the D tier is very hard

goes from top to bottom, left to right

[winged narwhal]

Mostly, but not entirely. It's not flawless. Sometimes there are exceptions like R1B1 is easier than R1A1, and it's especially hard to think about with optional objectives. Think of it as a rough estimate more than anything.

[sharp owl]

I see.

[winged narwhal]

And the E tier is brutal if you don't have a coordinated team :)

[sharp owl]

Will i find matchmaking? maybe i was just impatient lol but very first level i couldnt find a squad

[winged narwhal]

Not ingame, no. We use LFG here.

[rose nova]

uh dont use ingame matchmake

TAKE IT AWAY CRYO

[winged narwhal]

The matchmaking system was halfassed because it wasn't in the game at first, so when it released nobody used it.

Use the lfg channels (guide in #how-to-matchmake) to pick either whichever region is closest to you or #lfg-beginners

[rose nova]

i was
tbh expectin the command but that works

better

BUT anyways
just some advice!
ask to not be carried, and make sure that everyone joinin ur lobby joins ur vc

u already did the tutorial n stuff i guess so yeah

[winged narwhal]

I don't use the bot

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rose nova]

i use the bot

[sharp owl]

i find it hard to really see where i am shooting sometime

[winged narwhal]

Yeah I've noticed. A lot

[sharp owl]

what are the enemies called

cause with standard flashlight i cant see crap, but they can still shoot at me

[rose nova]

sleepers :]
the uh ones with teeth r called strikers
the ones that shoot r shooters

[winged narwhal]

Each enemy type has a name, but there's also the blanket term "sleepers"

[rose nova]

also ur guns might have better flashlights

b sure to see if they do by equipm- equip...

whats the word

[winged narwhal]

You should have someone use the biotracker, it can tag enemies which helps to know how many/where there are, even through walls or poor visibility!

[rose nova]

equipping

thats the word

by equipping them

[winged narwhal]

Bots will tag nearby enemies automatically, and even do it better than a player can. Ideally you'll have a full team of players but if you need to have a bot, I'd recommend you give them the tracker.

[idle hedge]

@coarse roost wanna?

[wise stratus]

did i get filled by a bot?

is oki sorry bout the internet i'll be around for anythin

[wise stratus]

@bright wedge @broken fossil @zinc shoal hewwoo

[rose nova]

heyyy dont use this chat for talkin with people in the LFG
if u can use the in-game chat or just dm

[bright wedge]

yello!

[rose nova]

[wise stratus]

i dmed and they weren't responding sorry QwQ

[rose nova]

its oki skmdk just yeah this chat is not for that

[acoustic nest]

still no r4 after two month

[lavish jay]

It's been 1 month and 6 days

[modern coral]

2 months until June 1

[proud hawk]

question what's the best way to take down the big guys cause sometimes a headshot isnt enough

do i just blow their heads or a shot in the chest will do

[lavish jay]

it's always enough with the sniper

[last parrot]

depends on the melee weapon you're using

which are you using

[modern coral]

Head isn't worth much on giants unless you have PR or SNiper

And w/ PR you don't want to get body shots really unless it's desperate

[winged narwhal]

The biggest thing about giant headshots imo is an easy stagger

Mostly because I don't run PR/sniper

[primal osprey]

6,000 niggas online but nobody tryn help wit r2d2

[wary marlin]

cuz 'lfg for game', join in and then 'leave' or 'why i cant kick you'

with no reason

[supple loom]

Or maybe because North-America isn't the entire globe?

[wary marlin]

Earth is flat hah

[jaunty pollen]

@supple loomFURRY ASS HIT?

[rose nova]

this all confused me

[supple loom]

どっか行け

[analog flicker]

casually LFGing with asia players from LFG-North-America

normal

aint the same as when I LFg'd with 2 old drunk Russians

lowkey they weren't great. but they were great company

[supple loom]

LFGing with any slav is fun

[wary marlin]

before you get this

[bright wagon]

Alguien para jugar ?

[rose nova]

wenas compa hay un server en español

ta en #hc-latin-america

ahi lo podes encontrar

[ebon laurel]

Hey everyone a message from the gtfo devs here! We're so high off our own farts that we made an unfun, unkillable enemy called the immortal! I'll just be answering a few FAQ's about this awesome new enemy we created!
Is there anyway to stun or damage the enemy?
-No, its unkillable and undamageable, the only way to deal with it is to have someone distract it on the staircase or waste all of your c foam ammo on it!
Is there a clever way to avoid the enemy?
-Nope, because here at the GTFo studios, we design our character around the content creators and top 1% of gamers! Our egos got a lil hurt when MaRkIpLiEr posted his solo runs, and we had a bit of a temper tantrum!
Will the enemy fun to face
-Nope, fuck you GTFO fanbase!

to quote Doug bowser

If its not fun why bother

[rose nova]

someone is mad at r7e1

pro tip foam the doors

not the enemy

and get better

[wraith marsh]

as if the immortal portion isnt the easy part of r7e1

👍

(still shit design tho ye)

[thick temple]

i mean i agree that the best way of dealing with pablo is kinda antifun
but also a lot of that reads in such a way that eminates cggs

[wraith marsh]

shit design but not worth that reaction

[thick temple]

yeah

[wraith marsh]

(also who is using cfoam on it thats a godawful idea)

[thick temple]

fr tf

[elfin osprey]

techniclly, u still can solo

[boreal briar]

noob question y.y is matchmaking broke? it takes a lot of time to find ppl

[thick temple]

not broken but

no one uses it

[elfin osprey]

dont used that shrimp

[wraith marsh]

treat it as if it is

[thick temple]

cause using lfg here is just

better

in every way

[elfin osprey]

they are for fun ruined

match making= hack making

[thick temple]

and yeah if they think that markiplier doing solo stuff made them have a shitfit and make the whole game unfun they're not ready to see tnenpi and others

[boreal briar]

😮

[elfin osprey]

they are definately not ready so see the stupidest way to have fun

[wraith marsh]

that was so long ago I really dont think that influenced r7e1 lmfao

[elfin osprey]

speedruning

[elfin osprey]

dont be surprise

[analog flicker]

so basically cope and seethe (shit game design)

[modern coral]

Tbh, I don't think they've ever reacted to solo players.

[analog flicker]

.t gtfo

[foggy plank]

The game is called GTFO and it doesn't stand for "Get The Fuck Out" but rather the feeling you have that you want to complete The Warden's objective and GTFO.

[analog flicker]

hm

[pastel wind]

it was revealed in a secret log gtfo stands for (Get the Fucking Databank (Out) (the d is silent)

[misty lodge]

i always thought it was Give The Fucking Dev-more-money (O)

[little ridge]

You know after playing through R1-2-3 I really wonder if the game actually needed sectors

An argument might be made that they make the maps more interesting to do after one visit but I feel like everything is streamlinable anyway. Basically, once the most optimal path is found, there ain't much difference between runs since people are usually going to stick towards an order rather than the other. And that's IF the map doesn't force you to do X before Y anyway.

And most sectors feel so detached from the main/high portion of the expedition they might just be repackaged as another expedition entirely imho

[modern coral]

Oh yeah, it did.

Trust me.

[little ridge]

Even though some maps that try to play it around a bit like R5A2 feel okay

Some sectors feel just tacked on for no reason

Some maps would probably be bland/too short without them like R4B1 without Extreme is very short if you/everyone knows where to go

But I feel like that's a bit of an exaggerated premise

[modern coral]

A lot of the levels in a levels are small enough that they'd be hard to package as whole levels, especially if you don't want to gate progression behind them or even if you just want to present them as optional (and I could see the argument for some, admittedly).

The game also had huge problems with a lack of content in R1-R3. The best players beat it first week, and then have jack shit to do besides beg for more E-tiers. R3 was the worst just because there was absolutely no hard content in the entire rundown.

R4 is remembered by a lot of people as a renaissance, imo, exactly because of layers.

Despite most layers being kind of eh.

[little ridge]

Of course I wouldn't literally just paste them 1:1, some stuff like R4B2's Extreme is just 1 zone IIRC

Point is that I don't feel like anything about that couldn't be accomplished by simply putting more expeditions rather than a layered one

[modern coral]

I think the presentation is genuinely a big deal, them simply being optional.

It makes them more-so a goal to strive for rather than simply the gameplay, which means people tend to think of them differently.

It also arguably gets people spending more time on the same levels rather than 2-3 different levels.

[little ridge]

I'll agree that they look super-cool, I also loved the idea of an harder area unlocked by a giant bulkhead door deep into a fog descent and whatever

[modern coral]

There's this common space that these 2-3 levels all share.

[little ridge]

But I feel like some could just be another level and that's it

I mean let's put it this way

Was there the need for Overload/PEs?

Speaking of which I wonder why R7D1 has Overload and not Extreme but whatever

[modern coral]

Kind of. "Marathon" runs are sort of the endgame of GTFO.

[modern coral]

Because Overload since R5 is seen as a difficulty and not simply "the 3rd"

And I think they tend to balance around it fairly well.

[modern coral]

But it's the same thing with checkpoints making the game significantly easier.

Marathons require significantly more consistency than if the level is broken up into a bunch of individual segments.

[little ridge]

I feel comparing shorter levels with checkpoints is a bit unfair

And mayhaps I'm wrong with this but people would have probably been more onboard with shorter levels than with checkpoints

[modern coral]

I disagree, I think it's potentially more severe for shorter levels, even, since a challenge run that strings things together is a lot more out of the way.

Maybe onboard with it, but I think they'd just be wrong.

People that play the game too much need at least some marathons.

Some levels went too far (R5D1, not even PE, jfc), but most PEs are fairly reasonable.

[little ridge]

Some levels do not have sectors and I think they're fine without one tbh

R5D2, R5B4...

[modern coral]

Sure, not all levels need sectors.

But if you think about R6...

I think a big reason R6 felt so lackluster was the lack of layers.

They were highly underutilized.

R7 is way better in that regard.

It has some more self-contained experiences, and it has some layer-heavy experiences.

[little ridge]

I feel like some are just created with layers in mind which skews the perspective a bit

[junior latch]

tbf r5b4 rly wouldve liked an optional to do

cuz a lot of the time you spend just waiting

[modern coral]

Yeah, it's a bit boring if your team is reasonably competent.

[junior latch]

r6c3 is a good example

take out overload or secondary

[modern coral]

Especially once people learned to abuse mines more.

[junior latch]

and the mission is snooze

[modern coral]

R6C3 is kind of a fulfillment of R5B4.

[junior latch]

ye

i do feel like r6 had some rly cool secondaries

well optionals

c2, c3 and d3

[modern coral]

I'm still waiting for a fulfillment of R6D4 🙏

[junior latch]

all fit the level well and made it more exciting

d2 was ok i guess

b2 was snooze (but moreso an intro to it)

[little ridge]

I dont know, those maps still have sectors because they're designed with those in mind

[junior latch]

yeah but without sectors

you either have it main only

and snooze for vets

or the complete package

and beginners suffer

[little ridge]

That's the point

[junior latch]

thats the point tho

[little ridge]

What I mean is

[junior latch]

giving optional difficultys

[little ridge]

Dont take it as

[junior latch]

a levels in r5 are actually fun

[little ridge]

"Let's remove Extreme and Overload and leave the level as is"

Of course some would need some rework not to be a snoozefest

[modern coral]

That is actually a part of the experience I haven't thought about...

With levels in levels you can get a sort of natural ramp between easier and harder content.

R5A2 is still mostly a level where newer players spend some time getting a handle on the game, and then at the end you get a quick mom fight that vets can blast through.

Nobody is really losing in that exchange.

Especially when vets are going to be replaying easy levels no matter what.

[little ridge]

Not sure what you mean... if anything I remember some newbie groups being perplexed by going into sectors thinking they needed to do them

[junior latch]

the issue with that is

beginners will struggle more while vets will be more bored with the level

you cant satisfy both

with optionals you can

[little ridge]

On the other hand you unlock a new tier and you kinda assume it's harder than the one before

[modern coral]

That's just GTFO's general tutorialization.

That's not really a fault of the layers.

[junior latch]

newbie groups are also perplexed by alarm doors, terminals, the tools themselves

[modern coral]

^

[junior latch]

hell when i was new new we didnt know how to find the cargo in r4a2 on our first try

we didnt understand that you had to be in that zone to ping it

we figured it out an hour later

but still

[modern coral]

Also, most newer groups I've run into on levels like R7B2 seem to understand optionals. People are either eager to try them or are focused on the Main, the system seems to work in these situations.

[little ridge]

You have to notice that R7B2 only has Extreme though.

[modern coral]

It's the same stuff w/ R7B3.

Hell, every R7 level with optionals.

[little ridge]

I'll rebate that R7B3's Overload is literally 1 more room and an alarm (it does make things harder of course)

[modern coral]

It seems like people play around the system in a positive way.

[little ridge]

Perhaps I just hate sectors that are a fucking new trip to reactor or fetch quests

Or some that have bizzarre pathing and order choices like R5B2's Overload only being avaible once you finished Extreme

[upbeat wharf]

Current rundown design is kinda boring

[modern coral]

Again, I think most of the people that hate those objectives are also getting a lot more out of the game because of them. I think the R4 era of the game is simultaneously overrated and underrated in many respects.

[modern coral]

I feel like that was one of the better PEs, ngl.

[little ridge]

I disagree because I would have liked to experience Overload and get the feel of what I needed to do, even if that meant locking me out of Extreme and consequently PE

[junior latch]

theres no first optional level with a overload

[little ridge]

This way, if I wanted to get experienced over the layout of Overload I'd need to go through Extreme again for yet another time

[little ridge]

Not sure what you mean?

R5B1 had overload, R5B2 too, R5A2 too

[modern coral]

R5A1 is Sec only.

and is the first optional you'll encounter in R5.

[little ridge]

eh? Ah right

Oh wait

For Optional

he meant sector, not level?

Cause he wrote "first optional level"

[modern coral]

I'm reading that as "first level w/ an optional sector."

[little ridge]

and you need to do R5A1 while IIRC you could skip R5A2? Not even really sure why he wrote that tbh

[modern coral]

Just in general, the devs try to put a Secondary in-front of you before an Overload I think.

Why do you want to differentiate so much between R4/R5 optionals and R6/R7 optionals, btw?

They're definitely higher quality, but...

[little ridge]

I dont know Ray I just feel like some sectors are just extra padding time

I'll agree that shorter means easier (even if that's debatable since some maps imho are finely hard enough without extra sectors)

Perhaps shit like R5C2 still haunts me

[junior latch]

which are?

[modern coral]

Would you say R4B1 Sec is solid, or padding, tho?

[junior latch]

the only main only maps that are "hard" are r5 stuff, E tiers and D4?

[little ridge]

R2E1 is fine without Extreme? R2D2?

[junior latch]

R2D2 rly isnt hard

[little ridge]

Ah I get it

this is the part where someone posts me speedruns of maps in under half an hour and go "X is too easy"

I did R2D2 on first try but I wouldn't call it easy

[modern coral]

I mean, that's literally the point of layers.

A lot of "hard" content is going to be very trivial for other people.

Layers give you some extra content to help satisfy those people w/out compromising the core experience.

[junior latch]

?

[little ridge]

And that couldn't be accomplished by just adding 1-2 whatever more levels?

[junior latch]

no the level is challenging but not at all hard

[modern coral]

No, absolutely not.

I don't mind grinding levels like R3A2, but nobody plays R3A2.

I don't think many people would grind R4B1, but the reactor? Suddenly people are playing some R4B1.

[little ridge]

If it makes you feel any better I've seen newbies lamenting that they cant find people for R7C3-C2 PEs

[little ridge]

You sure? For the, what, 5 wave reactor with a mother at the end?

[modern coral]

I'm sure that has nothing to do with alt rundowns.

[modern coral]

Uh, yeah.

R7D2 LFG is dead. Is that because the level sucks ass?

No, it's because grinding multiple hundreds of clears has left people a little more interested in grinding the exciting and new R3D1, at least for now.

R7C2 and R7C3 kind of dominated LFG when the content was fresh, in my experience, and it's still getting run despite everything.

C3 more-so.

[little ridge]

I know I'm repeating myself, and I know that it's hard to compare a map with an imaginary version that exists only in, well, the imagination, but It's not like I'm proposing to delete the Extreme portion altogether and leave maps as is, I'm also just discussing a theoretical scenario tbh where sectors weren't a thing and maps were rebalanced around that with just adding more expeditions rather than fewer with 3-2 sectors in them

[modern coral]

The problem is that people would play R4B1-B and R4B1-A would be kind of a dead level.

[little ridge]

I see people finding groups for R2B tiers without too much hassle

[modern coral]

B1-A is for newbies that need the clear, B1-B is for doing the shooty bit.

I think that's more the strength of R2 B-tiers.

Not sure of B3's playrate, but B4 I think is kind of disliked.

I think there's something to be said for a single level having a mixture of content due to optionals, is all.

[little ridge]

Of course all of what I can say is just my non ex-partes PoV and experience

[modern coral]

I might not like R4B1's giant or fog sections that much, but they're a nice change of pace if they're included in a reactor run.

I don't think optionals are meant to serve non-exp players directly, though. They are mostly for people who are constantly running out of GTFO to get the fuck out of.

[muted cypress]

Will checkpoint ever be fixed

[modern coral]

They only really serve as ramp and replayability.

[muted cypress]

Optionals are coming back

They better do something

[little ridge]

I dont think they'll add checkpoints to any maps in R4-5

[muted cypress]

Bruh I hope

Fix it or just remove completely

[junior latch]

i mean there wont be checkpoints until r6

[muted cypress]

It’s just weird

Some rundowns have checkpoints some are not

[junior latch]

thats the point i made tho

if you rebalance the level. It obviously should gain in difficulty right? cuz otherwise why remove the optional thats servers for that

but if you do that, suddenly the mission is harder for the new players. You might say "just find the middle", but that leads to both vets and beginners not being happy

[little ridge]

Considering the reowrk they did of R3D1 I dont think they'll bother adding checkpoints

Since I'm assuming they'd just added one on sec doors (I've no idea how the map generating works so I can just make speculations)

[junior latch]

they got introduced in the full release cuz a minority cried for them
then they stuck around in r7

levels werent designed with checkpoints in mind before r6 and thus they didnt get any (also them breaking wouldnt help)

[modern coral]

Also, I'm going to refer back to R4's success. R4 clearly did something right, and it did it really well despite having an absolute mess of layer design. People literally complained about it at the time, and yet still loved the fuck out of R4.

[wet mica]

checkpoints were a mistake

[junior latch]

if they had no bugs and limited use

they couldve been fine

but 1 is eh... hard and 2 is never gonna happen

[little ridge]

I dont think it's SO 100% pronounced that everyone would dislike them if you balance stuff out and just add more levels

[junior latch]

[muted cypress]

Some levels are fucked because of checkpoints

[modern coral]

I think people literally quit the game over R5B1 and R5C1. Main layers being a brick wall can be kind of an issue.

[little ridge]

? cant you just restart from the beginning? You mean stuff like R7D1 Overload spawning more than intended? Is that a fault of checkpoints?

[modern coral]

People will just think of it differently if it's a secondary. You don't have to do the R4B1 reactor. You do have to do R5B1's big charger error.

[muted cypress]

It’s just meant as a crutch for newbies while introduce so many gamebreaking problems

[junior latch]

r7d1 is just buggy
the checkpoint actually breaks it in the opposite direction (no more snatcher spawns)

[little ridge]

Dont those gamebreaking problems arise only if you use them?

[junior latch]

the only problem (if you dont use them) is the potential of door not opening when you need to go quickly

[muted cypress]

Alt rundowns show that players dont need checkpoints to beat the game

So why still have it til now

[junior latch]

weeeeell

r1 is also super easy

[little ridge]

R5B1's big charger (especially before they reduced the enemies behind the error sec doors) was too much I agree of course

[junior latch]

R2 is generally easier than r7 below D tier and R3 is not that challenging until D1

[junior latch]

less about reducing enemys. more about not having bbcs and a scout

[modern coral]

POV: You've successfully fixed the R7D1 checkpoint bugs.
To do:
-Remove Deactivate Alarms abuse
-Fix multi-snatcher error
-Optimize Gardens

[modern coral]

Would you at least agree that, with how people play the game, people tend not to sort themselves out very well difficulty-wise and they tend to sort themselves a bit too well for content preferences?

[grizzled bison]

Checkpoints (when working) significantly reduce time spent replaying a portion of a level, help reduce frustration by helping players learn a part of a level that is seen difficult enough to require a checkpoint, and assist in completion of a level a player who would otherwise be dissuaded from the time investment if excluded

[little ridge]

What do you mean with sort themselves out?

[muted cypress]

Time reduced

Are you sure about that?

[grizzled bison]

Yes

[muted cypress]

If anything, checkpoints can drastically increase the time you spend on the lvl

If you’re team are so incompetent

[grizzled bison]

Not significantly enough compared to the time it'd take to replay the level

How much someone bashes their head against a wall doesn't change regardless if checkpoints exist or not

[muted cypress]

And if you are competent, checkpoint is literally useless

[grizzled bison]

So?

That's like saying we shouldn't make a levels because they're too easy

Or boosters shouldn't exist because I don't use them

It's a feature designed to be used by those who want to use them

The last thing we need is to remove features from gtfo

[muted cypress]

Do you yourself believe that you need checkpoints for A and B tier?

[modern coral]

If I have an A-tier and a C-tier level, and I have players at a mix of skill levels, rather than good players tending heavily towards C-tier and vice versa, a large number of players will end up playing both levels regardless of whether it's a bit easy or hard for them.

For content preferences, if I have two equally difficult levels, people will gravitate towards frequently replaying levels that involve doing things that, for w/e reason, a lot of people like to do.

[grizzled bison]

I might not

Someone just starting and learning the game would

Should their experience not be optimized?

Besides the levels that are considered the hardest (e tier) have gone without checkpoints to maintain that semblance of difficulty

You aren't forced to use them and they're useful to those who want to

[little ridge]

Second statement I agree with. I dont see the point you're trying to make with the first one? Of course people could/would/should try stuff even if it ain't probably 100% in their grasp?

Of course I wouldn't suggest a newbie to drop in R7E1 but I feel like that's way over the top?

[modern coral]

I think layers are able to address both a little bit, the former more-so.

Since you're going to have a mix of skill levels no matter what, optionals add some levers for players to pull to adjust the experience on the fly. A-tier will be more engaging for vets that are replaying that content, and C-tier you can pull back a little if the group is already struggling with the standard level.

[muted cypress]

I believe new players have been given enough easy levels to improve their skills so that they wont ever need not care for checkpoint 🙂

[modern coral]

Imma be real, R7D2 would be half as fun w/out the checkpoint.

[grizzled bison]

That's your personal belief. Clearly we both disagree on the usefulness of checkpoints.

[modern coral]

I'm not usually looking for sweaty gamers to beat that level, I'm just trying to have some fun, maybe sweating a lot myself, with some maybe subpar teammates at times.

The checkpoint is really nice for keeping the extraction laidback without removing the actual threat it poses, which I enjoy dealing with.

And I think checkpoints do that for most levels.

[little ridge]

I get it now, that's fine it's just that I dont think the same couldn't be done with careful map design and more maps...

[modern coral]

I do no-checkpoint in my static or if we stumble into it.

[muted cypress]

Ima be real, if checkpoint works consistently I wouldnt even argue in the first place

Im just worried some lvl might never be fixed

[little ridge]

Regarding checkpoints, just don't use them? The only argument against that which I can think of is just the "those pesky guys got through map X by banging their head on it and didnt learn any lesson from that map"

[modern coral]

But it couldn't, it's not possible. A-tier just has to be easy, and you can't really add much more to the level outside of goofy strats. C-tier will always be C-tier, but if I'm rolling with a very experienced group it'd be nice to have more to do.

[modern coral]

Imma be real with you, they're pretty consistent.

Checkpoint bugs are kinda rare.

Your shining example of big issues arising from checkpoints is the single most broken level in the game's entire history.

Checkpoints are maybe the least off-putting thing in that mess.

[grizzled bison]

I think what you're looking for is a sense of replayability which doesn't exist for levels that were originally designed to be consistently replaced by new ones

[modern coral]

Me or LATV?

[grizzled bison]

You rayalot 😍😍

[muted cypress]

R7C3 gets significantly easier after you use the checkpoint

Same with R6C3

[modern coral]

I disagree, I think most levels with layers have been remarkably replayable.

[modern coral]

?

[grizzled bison]

Finitely

[modern coral]

R6C3 had issues, yeah, but I don't think R7C3 deletes any waves.

[little ridge]

he's referring to a glitch that removes fog or whatever

[modern coral]

Because it's not a mid-survival checkpoint.

[grizzled bison]

There's only so many ways a level can be replayed

[modern coral]

What fog?

That's C2

[little ridge]

Oh no wait that was R7C2

my bad

[modern coral]

I don't think you understand.

[muted cypress]

No im referring to the error alarm that spawn no enemies after you use checkpoint

[modern coral]

Vets already mega-replay shit.

[grizzled bison]

I don't think YOU understand

[modern coral]

My point is just that layers improve the experience for what people are already doing.

[modern coral]

That's not a thing in C3.

[grizzled bison]

Not when most vets actively prefer playing the full extent of a level besides layers

[modern coral]

Waves don't get deleted.

[modern coral]

Wym?

[muted cypress]

I’ve had it happened

[modern coral]

The uplinks delete waves, but that's not CP-related.

[grizzled bison]

I've not run into many vets would just want to do something like r7c3overload

Or only do r7c2 extreme

[little ridge]

Yeah that too

[modern coral]

Beep, I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

I'm not talking about objective combos at all.

[sharp owl]

hello gents

[modern coral]

I'm just talking playing through the level generally.

[grizzled bison]

Aren't objective combos relevant to replayability?

Expaecially in the context of layers

[modern coral]

Also, I think you're just straight wrong.

[grizzled bison]

I'd disagree

I think I'm straight right

[modern coral]

R7C2, depending on the group the figurative levers are extremely useful.

[grizzled bison]

I didn't say depending on the group

[modern coral]

In very inexp groups we've done just Main or just Secondary.

[grizzled bison]

I said veterans

[muted cypress]

What does uplink has to do with it?

[grizzled bison]

So turns out you're not understanding me

[modern coral]

Right, and vets are going to run w/ random teammates all the time.

[grizzled bison]

I didn't say veterans and mixed pubs

[modern coral]

Uplinks delete all currently active waves.

[muted cypress]

No

[modern coral]

Okay, but that's not what I'm talking about.

[grizzled bison]

Although veterans still prefer a full complete and tend to actively suggest for one

[muted cypress]

After using CP

No enemies spawn for the first few mins

[modern coral]

I'm saying that layers are especially nice for mixed groups, and are still fine for non-mixed groups.

[grizzled bison]

So what do layers provide in terms of repeatability or "more to do" outside of that

[muted cypress]

It had been a thing recently whenever i play C3

[grizzled bison]

With the addendum that veteran players are looking for "more to do"

[modern coral]

When I say "more to do," all I mean is that you are not locked into only the Main objective and whatever level of challenge it provides.

[grizzled bison]

And I'm arguing that a full complete with layers is usually intended to be the fully designed level

[modern coral]

What do you think I'm arguing for, beep?

What do you think my position is that I'm defending?

[grizzled bison]

A main only level can be equally competently designed as one that has prisoner efficiency

That layers offer options in terms of what to do

[modern coral]

Right, options in terms of challenge as well.

So how are you disagreeing?

[little ridge]

I dont think that levels couldn't be designed without sectors since most of previous rundowns were

[grizzled bison]

I'm saying that, in terms of veteran players, that choice is usually already made for them

[little ridge]

I just cant see how "just add 8 levels with only main instead of 4 levels with 3 sectors each" is unfeasible or would be impossible to balance correctly

[modern coral]

Okay, where do I disagree with that, though?

Obviously, 4-stack vets will always PE.

[grizzled bison]

There's "more to do" but you're likely doing it anyways so you're essentially just playing a level

That aspect doesn't change regardless of layers or not

Besides the fact that a level could be bloated by them

[modern coral]

But if that were actually part of the level, beep...

[grizzled bison]

they usually are

[modern coral]

That would mean (1) newbies are going to have a much harder time with the content and (2) there are no levers for mixed groups to pull on to adjust the experience.

[grizzled bison]

my argument has never been that layers don't offer replayability for mixed groups and newer players

[modern coral]

Well that is my argument, you're taking a factoid from that argument and trying to make it into my entire position.

I am arguing against the position that a Main layer and a PE could and should be separated into two separate levels.

[grizzled bison]

your argument was that layers offer a maneuverability in level difficulty that can be used by a veteran player for mixed public groups so that they can adjust the difficulty to meet that group, yes?

[modern coral]

I think 3 combined layers is better.

[modern coral]

Yes.

And that the mix of difficulties means everyone gets to be "comfortable" in a mixed group depending on where you are in the level.

[grizzled bison]

not as many veterans are as considerate as you are, or are, and would rather do a level's challenge to its full extent

I still argue that a veteran player would prefer to do a full complete regardless of group

and would argue for it

that or avoid groups where players are doing single layer completes altogether

it's not LFG r7c3 (we'll decide the layers when you get here)

[modern coral]

I just don't think this happens.

[grizzled bison]

it does

[muted cypress]

Nah

[modern coral]

In my experience, mixing is far more the norm than trying to separate out.

[muted cypress]

People will usually vote if they want to do optionals

[modern coral]

So many vets play A-tier.

[grizzled bison]

when the lfg is designed to show what layers you want to do

It's a little hard to agree with you that this is the norm

"now that we grouped up for this prisoner efficiency, let's take a vote if we actually want to do it"

[muted cypress]

Vets dont usually care either way, so its up to other players to choose how far they want to go into a lvl

[modern coral]

Fine, I'll concede.

[grizzled bison]

unless you mean you failed the level and suggested doing an easier tier

[modern coral]

But I stand by the idea that you'll experience a mix of threats.

[grizzled bison]

that mix assuredly exists

it's not like the case or situation just doesn't

[modern coral]

You'll spend some time in Main, some time in optionals, and there will be some cross-influence depending on the particular objectives and level.

[grizzled bison]

that's how layers were designed yeah

so I'll concede, there's definitely more in terms of objectives that you encounter with that you wouldn't in a main only level

[modern coral]

I think I might give this a 50/50 as well.

I think it specifically depends on who is hosting whether or not the objectives are explicit, and there's a good number of unspecified groups.

Wouldn't be able to put a number on it, but...

And usually if it's unspecified it's newbie-leaning.

Well, I guess that's still self-sorting a bit.

But that self-sorting is predicated on layers, imo. Newbies will simply post "A2" and vets will post "A2 PE," but literally anyone and everyone might post for "R3D1" or "R7D2"

[junior latch]

generally

If it was only for vets, optionals arent rly necessary since you could probably just rebalance the levels for them to fit the PE

but if you fit beginners, medium or experienced parties all together they will have far more access to the game via optionals and choosing how much they wanna do

[misty lodge]

As always beep HAS to be right

Smh

[sharp owl]

ummmm excuse me, beep always is right tyvm

[ivory pier]

layers are ass

boy i love joining a chill expedition like R7B2 but then be forced by the team to make the level annoying by doing the optional

if you want a better example you can use R5D1 instead

idc that im a veteran i dont wanna play every godamn objective

if it sucks it sucks

why we playing it

[rose nova]

get another team :] /j

[modern coral]

That's not really a layer thing, that's an objective boring thing.

[ivory pier]

yes it is a layer thing cuz now theres more than 1 objective that could be dumb

you skip good levels because one of the optionals is bad

[modern coral]

R7B2 not exactly an exciting level in general last I heard.

I don't think the Secondary is the problem.

[ivory pier]

ok use R5D1 then

banger main

dogshit optional

[modern coral]

Just don't do the optional.

EZ

[pine root]

R7b3 pretty good level I don’t like the secondary

[ivory pier]

just dont join 90% of the lobbies

its not a problem xD

[rose nova]

r7b2 is an ok extreme, just not super incredible

[rose nova]

D:

[pine root]

The secondary adds very little

[rose nova]

dont lfgs put like the 'we doin extreme' thingie?

[junior latch]

the teleport part itself isnt even that unfun
its just ... the secondary zones themselves? and the backtracking

[pine root]

No iy I’d assumed

[ivory pier]

they either put it

[modern coral]

I don't like the teleport tbh, it's fun if you actually shoot enemies.

[ivory pier]

or when they dont put it

[modern coral]

But pubs r bad

[ivory pier]

they generally still mean all objectives

its exactly the problem with the layers

they dont work

ppl play it all anyway

[pine root]

I don’t like the 3 teleports it just feels not connected

[modern coral]

A good number of groups do not.

And that's not including static-only players.

[junior latch]

imagine if they were to 3 different areas

[pine root]

If it was one and there was an event that changed they level

[ivory pier]

until they realise you're good

and then they do

the ones who don't aren't doing it because actual difficulty issue

its almost never "want"

[junior latch]

like DX ending?
unironically. i really enjoy the ending of the level in theory. Its just hideous to play due to fps issues. And the level not being fun before that

[modern coral]

That's just patently untrue.

[rose nova]

patently?
like
copyrighted

[modern coral]

Plenty of people want to get a handle on the Main, or just aren't looking for optionals.

[ivory pier]

ray you're gaslighting if you think its common for ppl not to do optionals for any reason other than them being too hard for them

[pine root]

More like r7c3 secondary that turns off all lights

[modern coral]

clearly; without doubt.

[rose nova]

nah nah
trademark :D

[pine root]

Something that changed the level’s functionality

[rose nova]

/j

[ivory pier]

R7B3 secondary is dogshit cuz they repeat the same thing 3 times

[modern coral]

aren't doing it because actual difficulty issue
Which is it?

[junior latch]

imagine if you had to do it early (before 3/4 of the level or even 9/10) and it made fog rise slowly

[rose nova]

i mean not every lvl has to change the entire thing, somethimes it can b a funny funny side thing then comeback to the normal mission

[pine root]

no

[junior latch]

[pine root]

Then just make another level

[ivory pier]

what do you mean which is it

[modern coral]

I usually discourage R7D1 Overload just because I don't enjoy it, not that hard.

[ivory pier]

those are the same thing

is my english too ass

[junior latch]

text reading lacks context

[ivory pier]

this is the greatest argument against layers

and its a way better solution for many many many of the bad optionals we have

a difficulty option on a level that already has a difficulty grade makes no sense

[junior latch]

you either remove the optionals that make a level better (see r6c3) or you make them into the level and suddenly beginners can not deal with that level anymore

[pine root]

Wesley the only reason I avoid optionals is in lfg they take to long

[junior latch]

meaning youll have to move all levels with optionals up

[ivory pier]

or eva

you keep them

and its not a C tier anymore

the correct solution

[junior latch]

thats what i just said

but now we have like 5-8 D tiers and an extra E tier or 2

[ivory pier]

i mean you move the level

yes

eva that makes so much sense

if all levels are kept now

[junior latch]

that sucks for beginners aswell?

[ivory pier]

no it doesn't

we dont need more than 10 beginner levels

we have enough of them

[junior latch]

with all the rundowns out, yea. At that point i agree. But the main only rundowns make this seem more appearant

[modern coral]

Then we just have more "required" content, and more bloat for people replaying content.

[ivory pier]

tf u talking about more required content

[modern coral]

R7C2 Overload shouldn't be its own level.

[ivory pier]

thats exactly what the optionals are now

for almost everyone that plays this game

[junior latch]

if we take r4-7
The only levels that will stay in A and b tier will be the main onlys, R6B2 and like R4A1?

[modern coral]

I think way more people skip optionals than you think, Wesley.

[rose nova]

i think that the optinals that dont add a lot just arent big nor super interesting enough to make into a separate lvl
they r usually more to strain resources or just to introduce a quick idea that in a whole level couldnt b done, r7b3 sec is a level of r6 but with new enemies, and to make the same level twice w/o that much of adifference, they squish it, cut the borin parts and add it somewhere else, and even so with the fog that b3 already has, at least makes it different in the sense of u can get infection a lot

[modern coral]

At least for a first clear.

[ivory pier]

yes ray the people who quit the game

[junior latch]

i agree that theres definetly a bunch of shitty optionals

[modern coral]

No, I disagree.

[rose nova]

cool

same

[junior latch]

huh, a lot of people skip optionals early on

[rose nova]

this is all kinda objective

tho

[modern coral]

Hardstuck types are more likely to quit imo.

[ivory pier]

difficulty based skip

[modern coral]

and they're going to repeat post for PE.

[ivory pier]

not want"

first clear very important there

they cant skip it because they didnt like it

cuz they dont even know what it is

this doesnt mean optionals are good all of the sudden

[rose nova]

tbf yeah most people that ive seen redo the PE a hella lot more than just the main

[modern coral]

...yeah?

[ivory pier]

it's still not a positive for layers

[modern coral]

That's the point of optionals, yeah?

You skip them to make the level easier.

You do them to make the level harder

[ivory pier]

but that makes no sense ray

you play an easier level to play an easier level

[rose nova]

what

[ivory pier]

you play a harder level to play a harder level

[modern coral]

Nobody plays GTFO that way.

[rose nova]

that does make sense

its a layered difficulty system

[modern coral]

Experienced players join A1.

[rose nova]

the trailer even said it

its a difficulty system

[ivory pier]

why is there difficulty on top of the difficulty

[rose nova]

to make it more difficult!

[modern coral]

Inexperienced players move to lower tiers before they're well practiced.

[rose nova]

D:

[junior latch]

to make early levels not dog shit for more experienced players by default

[ivory pier]

thats first clear only eva

and entirely avoided if we stop making easy levels

[junior latch]

and you can make the same level but with a twist (this is only a few optionals tho)

[modern coral]

So that individual levels are more flexible and varied in terms of the challenge they offer to players.

[rose nova]

if r7b3 didnt had the overload it would just
be a lot more
easy for everyone

[ivory pier]

but they aren't flexible

[modern coral]

But they are flexible.

[ivory pier]

cuz everyone gets to the point where it becomes we play everything

[modern coral]

You can just not do Overload, Secondary, etc.

[ivory pier]

but ppl dont do this

[rose nova]

that is a problem of the people

[modern coral]

They do.

[rose nova]

not of the system

[ivory pier]

because of difficulty

[modern coral]

Yes, exactly.

[rose nova]

thats is a problem of the mentality of '100%' doing things, not of the layered system in n out itself

cause they r perfectly skippable

[modern coral]

That's exactly what it means to be flexible.

If it's too hard, you opt out.

[ivory pier]

slendi is the problem that everyone is stupid or that the game isn't designed around everyone being stupid

[rose nova]

or that people like completin a game to full
but i guess i am stupid thats fair /gen

i am stupid in many ways

[ivory pier]

if its too hard you play the easier level instead

[rose nova]

so this could perfectly b one

[ivory pier]

there dont have to be layers

they aren't a positive

[modern coral]

People do not play the game that way.

That is simply a fact.

[ivory pier]

read what i said towards slendi

[junior latch]

being able to change how a level plays and both ways being interesting is when an optional is what its supposed to be

and there are some examples of that

not a lot

[modern coral]

Designing the game around people being very rational and then being surprised when play psychology doesn't work that way is just dogshit game design.

[junior latch]

but some

[ivory pier]

if ppl keep treating your game as a completionist thing then maybe the optionals dont rly make sense ray

[junior latch]

at least imo

[modern coral]

And also, if you do an R7C2 PE run, you are going to spend a lot of time in the main, you'll make a few trips doing things for or in Overload, and then you cap it off with Secondary.

By having 3 different "difficulties" in one mission

You get to play all 3 at different points in the level.

You're not committing to exactly one thing.

[celest egret]

I still love the fact my team had literally no issues with the Overload but couldn't stop fucking up in the Secondary.

[modern coral]

The whole time.

[ivory pier]

and this is a problem

it means you are forced to play more things

its less flexible

i cant play just the reactor

[rose nova]

it is a hard secondary :]
the sleepers mixed with flyers r funky to avoid

[modern coral]

That is way better for pub environments.

[ivory pier]

how is it better

[celest egret]

Nah the issue was just more simple than that really.

[modern coral]

A significant amount of people, if not most people, play with random teammates.

[ivory pier]

how is that better than just having that level split in 3

[rose nova]

fall dmg :D
jk

[modern coral]

Because it means everybody gets to have some fun, and nobody is fully locked into content they don't enjoy.

[celest egret]

It took four attempts, though one was just because the host crashed and it fucked the run. My mates are not the best at actually shooting the things,

[junior latch]

interactions of the objectives

[ivory pier]

ok ray i think for the early alt rundowns they should combine the levels on a tier into a single level using the layers

[rose nova]

same

[ivory pier]

Because it means everybody gets to have some fun, and nobody is fully locked into content they don't enjoy.

R3A3 would be so much better if it also forces you to play R3A2 at the same time

good argument

[modern coral]

No shit there's a middle-ground.

[rose nova]

this is not a contraargument cause there has been reactors as extreme

so

spoilers for a certain e level

[ivory pier]

you're layerpilled ray

[celest egret]

so in one of the attempts one of them straight up shot me in the back with his shotgun and that cost us. In another one they just refused to place their sentries at all (which makes it a bit harder because, considering the previous one where they shot me, they were suddenly a lot less willing to fire their guns) and in the last one they placed a sniper sentry behind me which shot me (unfortunately I didn't hear it being placed over the fact I was busy holding the enemies back).

[modern coral]

Level duration matters, the quality of the layers matters.

[junior latch]

R5A2 overload alone would be such a fun level

[modern coral]

Yes, absolutely.

[celest egret]

Comparably we only failed the Overload once because the guy carrying the hisec dropped it and forgot to pick it up again.

[modern coral]

I think R1-R3 ultimately wasn't very successful.

[junior latch]

F

[rose nova]

ah i remember that lmao

think u talked bout it

:]

[celest egret]

Ye.

I've mentioned it before definitely.

[ivory pier]

the problem eva is that a bunch of good optionals aren't actually optionals objectives

[modern coral]

R2 was pretty damn fun for vets, and it was too much for newbies.

[ivory pier]

the good part they offer is a modifier

which can exist without the shitty objective entirely

[junior latch]

true

[modern coral]

R3 was a lot more accessible, but had absolutely nothing for vets.

[celest egret]

I still like it just because it was a run killer that was actually funny and not someone fucking up something dumb (like fucking shooting me) and costing the run.

[rose nova]

and whatta surprise that og r2 has the lower completion rate in all
ALL of GTFO

and r3 the biggest

hm

[junior latch]

ray
i think wesleys point is

you keep the optionals and just rerank the levels accordingly since we have enough early levels as is

[modern coral]

Maybe now, but before Alts?

Fuck no.

[junior latch]

(wesley obviously this isnt 1 to 1 your opinion)

[ivory pier]

we aren't before alts

the game change man!

keep up!

[rose nova]

well r6 r7 optionals came as there were no alts and theres no rundown after the alts so this is a nothin

point

[ivory pier]

GTFO WILL ONLY GROW FROM HERE

[rose nova]

how did we get here

[modern coral]

Also, a lot of the R7 optionals make sense for what we currently have.

I fail to see how R7C2 or R7C3 would be better w/out optionals.

[ivory pier]

R7C2 overload by itself

would be such a banger level

how do you fail to see it

[junior latch]

tbf thats just gtfo as a concept being great and there being so many cool possibilites for levels

[ivory pier]

short action packed level

[modern coral]

I disagree. its whole gimmick is a bunch of short but hard sections connected to the gen cluster.

[ivory pier]

literally R7D2 like

ppl love that shit

[rose nova]

i think it would b annoyin very very quickly

unless its very short

[modern coral]

If it's that short it's just easy.

Straight up

[ivory pier]

if its its own level

[modern coral]

I'm sorry, but it'd be a hell of a breeze.

[ivory pier]

they could have make it harder

so no

[rose nova]

i think ik it but i dont wanna say somethin that im wrong with

but
it would maybe be an e level if it was harder n longer

[ivory pier]

thats fine too then

still makes more sense than extra objective thats forcefully combine with its main

[rose nova]

i already said what i think

i think optionals are ideas that cant b fully longer levels
and a 100% infection charger lvls...

it sounds like a great idea

but not for more than 20 mins

or 30

or d2 lenght idk

and even so i think it works nicely as an additive

[ivory pier]

R4D2 for slow ppl that dropped the cargo

[pine root]

R7c2 overload is a good optional though the secondary on the other hand

[rose nova]

idk r4

dont spoil me

[pine root]

Make a level for that would have made more sense

[rose nova]

what was the sec?

i dont remember it- wait nevermind

i do

[thick temple]

||desert flyers||

[rose nova]

i remembered

[ivory pier]

and u would find almost no one hosting a lobby for just overload

[pine root]

Literally no reason for it to exist

[rose nova]

... still nah
it would b like r6b1
all level and only the end like being dessert
and try fillin up all the other parts of the level to make it longer

woops

[pine root]

I don’t think people replay it

Already

[ivory pier]

because its not like R7D2

[rose nova]

make ur lobby break some rules
or
blackmail ur team into doin it

[ivory pier]

where you can replay just the good part of the level

because the level is ONLY the good part

[ivory pier]

im gonna put my sentry in front of prompt

[pine root]

Put sentry in respawn room?

[rose nova]

when they say 'sooo seconda-' shoot em

with a sniper

no with a burst cannon

[ivory pier]

me having to be a tyrant in matchmaking to try and get ppl to stand in the fucking main scan

[pine root]

I feel like r7d2 is played is because of the shooting

You get to do it

[rose nova]

is fast to get to the shoots

[modern coral]

@ivory pier I think we might just have very different views of pub culture, btw.

For a number of people, myself included, tend to replay easier levels regardless of whether there are good optionals. Needing to go through the Main on R7C2 or R7C3 for the Secondaries and Overloads comes at basically no cost. It also generally means the overall demands of the level are lower, or are at least concentrated into specific sections rather than being part of the entire level.

If it's all concentrated into a very hard level, the coordination required goes up, which generally means it's a lot less fun to play if you're not in a 4-stack of experienced players. If you get newer players in your pub, they're not just useless for certain sections, they're useless for the entire level, which doesn't feel good to say the least. The mix is genuinely very nice, for vets to have a chill run with some interesting bits, for newer players to see some harder content while still being able to contribute for most sections.

R7E1 is not fun to pub. R7C2 and R7C3 are.

[rose nova]

woh

[modern coral]

Also, I'm gonna say it, R7D2 difficulty is overrated. It's not fun because it's hard.

[rose nova]

no one said d2 was hard :O

everyone praises it cause its super fun

well it is hard but

not as

[unreal crystal]

it’s just a quick level with a lot of action

Hard to not like it tbh

[modern coral]

Wesley made the comparison, so figured I should mention.

[rose nova]

unless u dislike fps :D

[modern coral]

I need to get the ideas out so I can focus on raiding.

Dhuum rn

[unreal crystal]

My frames are usually ok

[rose nova]

nonono first person shooters

not frames per seconds kmdks

[unreal crystal]

Well if you don’t like first person shooters im kinda surprised that you’d be playing gtfo tbh

[rose nova]

yes :]

[ivory pier]

r7c3 fun to pub

nahhh

[modern coral]

You can solo basically all of the Main stealth, it's a good time.

[ivory pier]

if the lights stay on

[modern coral]

??

[rose nova]

yes

the

main stealth

thats what

main is

:]

main with lights

[modern coral]

The lights turning off doesn't make it non-soloable.

I'm starting to think Wesley has a vision issue.

[potent marsh]

oy

[pine root]

here we go again

[potent marsh]

anyone c1

or what ever

[foggy plank]

Hello! If you are unaware, we have Looking For Group (LFG) channels to help users group up and play the game. They are located here: #lfg-north-america / #lfg-latin-america / #lfg-eastern-europe / #lfg-western-europe / #lfg-asia / #lfg-oceania / #lfg-africa / #lfg-beginners.

If you are unsure of how to create or join a lobby, please see the instructions here: #how-to-matchmake.

[rose nova]

do u wanna do b3 extreme :] /j

[pine root]

yeah

[junior latch]

do you wanna do b1 extreme

[pine root]

no

that hurts me

[junior latch]

no speed

[rose nova]

do u wanna do r1a1 overload

[junior latch]

r1a1 is so linear that there is no way to actively make it harder outside of some weird ass rules

[rose nova]

idk
every alarm is tanks :D

no?

no?

[junior latch]

as in vanilla

you cant do it like r7a1 where you leave 1 alarm running the whole level

[rose nova]

um
u dont kill any enemy?

idk

[junior latch]

thats what i mean, intentional rule change (pacifist/only melee etc)

[rose nova]

i meant addin an overload into it :D

right after the first alarm theres an overload of doin a dual uplink with a surge runnin constantly

easy

right

:D

[junior latch]

[rose nova]

very a tier like

[junior latch]

a dual uplink with surge hasnt been done ever so

[rose nova]

aha there >:D
im so good at this /j

[pine root]

Dual uplink surge melee only charger giant. Zero room distance

Class 10 afterwards into double tank p mom

4 use medi is given though

So you can’t die

[junior latch]

And 4 tool

dont forget

[wicked solstice]

XD

[pine root]

Players still then bring provisions and c foam amount and just perma foam a ladder

[thick hornet]

Unlimited glowsticks

[pine root]

To strong

They can use the r5 boosters

[junior latch]

pro counter

make it a snatcher surge

[thick hornet]

clue me in?

[pine root]

Wait I have an awful idea. It is 20 bridge tiles long. Into a 8 cluster gen all cells are given at the start

Snatchers deal no dmg and it is a surge the entire time

Now bring the cells to the end

That is the level

[pine root]

R5 boosters be mega broken

Glow stick prox is one of the conditions

[junior latch]

Do you drop a cell when snatched?

[pine root]

Sometimes

Sometimes it gets eaten into the void

[junior latch]

lol

[pine root]

Then you have to reset

[modern coral]

Wormhole cell strat?

[thick hornet]

backrooms bonus extension to the level

[modern coral]

Get grabbed, drop cell.

Partner on opposite side of the map gets grabbed, grabs cell

[pine root]

Oh wait you can do that

That is such cool tech

[modern coral]

No idea

Assuming it persists in the snatcher dimension, though.

New R7D2 PE method?

[pine root]

The snatcher dimensions is pretty big i thought

/ there is more than one of them

[modern coral]

High roll

[pine root]

LOL

U right

Does anyone have a consistent way of getting the scout soft lock bug

I want to make a vid on how to fix it

[spiral mica]

just got shredded in R1C1 lmao

[upbeat hatch]

it hard?

[spiral mica]

very

[upbeat hatch]

damn i gotta do that next

[spiral mica]

use burst sentry

otherwise its impossible lol

[upbeat hatch]

yeah planned on that seems like they are the all rounders

[spiral mica]

definitely

normally i use sniper sentry but the enemies are to quick in R1C1

[upbeat hatch]

snipers a weird one for me

[spiral mica]

i like the overpenetration on it

sniper takes a shot, deals some damage, then the burst finish everyone else

[rose nova]

uh sniper doesnt have overpenetration :]

thats the hel weapons

[spiral mica]

ah

then guess im dense

lmao

[upbeat hatch]

lol

[rose nova]

nah its oke

[spiral mica]

i thought they did

[upbeat hatch]

i usually just bring a sniper myself and burst sentry for the little boys

[rose nova]

the sniper is nice for long distances but on c1 maybe bursts b more funk

[spiral mica]

shotgun go brrrr

[rose nova]

ah yeah
no :D

i dont like shottie

[spiral mica]

I like it

I like the buckland

[upbeat hatch]

feel like they are okay

[rose nova]

ah that shottie yes the shotgun sentry is bad

:]

[spiral mica]

never used it

[rose nova]

good

[upbeat hatch]

its pretty bad

[rose nova]

and on c1 would just do nothing ksmdk

[spiral mica]

i feel like mines could also be good on c1

[rose nova]

mh
well mines active with only one enemy

and there arent any doors to put many behind one

[upbeat hatch]

they need doors to work well

[spiral mica]

true

there is a long hallway to the reactor

wonder if that could be a good defense

[rose nova]

the so desired bridge

and

hole in the wall

[spiral mica]

ye

that bridge is scary

[upbeat hatch]

burst sentry go brrr

[spiral mica]

bio scan

everything shows up

all on bridge

ded

[rose nova]

and my ammo too but the map has a lot

ksmdk

[spiral mica]

we had ammo

but no health

that was all at the beginning

[rose nova]

i normally refill with like the 2 use ammo then carry the 4 5 uses along

also puttin the code in late can give u extra time

since the waves only spawn in the high intensive tests

[spiral mica]

good to know

[rose nova]

yeh
by the end it gives lots of time to run back so take advantage of that :D

[mint light]

2 burst, 1 snipe, 1 bio ez gg. get resources in between waves. Have only one dude run back for code. wait for the last 10 sec to put it in to get more loot time. enjoy your clear

ah yes and put 1 burst 1 snipe from start, put 2nd burst from wave 3 or 4 onwards. to spare a bit of tool . but tbh there is more resources than you need

[spiral mica]

Thanks for the help mate!

[peak ginkgo]

how do u unlock different skins

for hammer

[merry crypt]

you cant

their used to be 4 skins but they removed that

[pine root]

Hammer skins in r4

Real

[analog flicker]

legacy hammers

which technically have different stats than the one we currently have

most of which are small or qol changes

[winged narwhal]

they should bring them back, and possibly make skins for the other weapons to make them seem like they're worth taking over the hammer

[rose nova]

i want skin for my bat

[winged narwhal]

i think a baseball bat skin for it could be pretty funny

[elfin osprey]

Knife default the best skin

But knife need a small rework on how they stab

[winged narwhal]

That's because knife only has the one skin

[last parrot]

and you couldn't top it

if you tried

to make a second one

pardon my very slow thought train

[elfin osprey]

Kitchen knife could be a skin

Tha best gordan ramsey knife for cooking sleepees

[analog flicker]

Ngl. That hardly feels like a issue imo

I wish I could use knife again

But the reliability and satisfaction of using The good ol hammer

Still insane what you can get away with for stealth

[wispy bluff]

Maybe if hammer couldn't sprint either...

That would basically be the change to make other options more appealing.

Huh. I think I just solved hammer meta.

[junior latch]

do not make stuff less fun to nerf it

lol

thats the same as HAR recoil change

[wispy bluff]

Hey @hollow quarry please take note.

[junior latch]

the stagger being reduced is the actual fix

makes bat more unique aswell

which should appeal to all bat users

[modern coral]

All 3 of them will be very happy.

[rose nova]

:D

[analog flicker]

Har is still in such a weird spot

[grizzled bison]

Still better than arbalist

[analog flicker]

[edgy matrix]

i was a HAR enjoyer until i got used to the machinegun wind up time

[modern coral]

I just got out of an R1C2 where I realized I couldn't really hold charger waves effectively with HEL Rifle.

I'm starting to wonder if HEL Rifle is just downright bad.

[fair escarp]

It's a precision weapon that doesn't care about headshot. It's not a Jack of all trade

That is why it has trouble holding waves

[modern coral]

Yeah, but full charger waves are the absolute ideal scenario for HEL Rifle.

If it struggles in that situation, I feel like there might be very little reason to run it ever.

[wispy bluff]

Ah, you experienced my issue as well.

Could hit a single one of those fuckers.