[Private wiki] Can Miraheze legally reuse our content without our agreement?

[uneven brook]

Hello everyone

I guess there are some people who use Miraheze for their own stories / books / universes.

However, Miraheze's content policy specifies that Miraheze is permitted to redistribute your content.

Does this mean that one day, if one wants to publish a book where most of the ideas were written on Miraheze (in a private wiki), Miraheze has the right to appropriate the rights of use and distribution?

[Private wiki] Can Miraheze legally reuse our content without our agreement?

[visual ore]

there's a change licence button, have you checked it?

[uneven brook]

Are you referring to this page?

meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Help:Changing_your_wiki_license

[jaunty latch]

Read it carefully

“to the users YOU PERMIT TO ACCESS YOUR SITE AND TO MIRAHEZE PERSONNEL”

Emphasis added by me

@uneven brook

[uneven brook]

So what I wrote above is correct

Miraheze can reuse my content as many times as they want, without my permission

even if it's a private wiki

[uneven brook]

<@&803977072875405422> Apologies for the ping, but can you confirm?

[swift oxide]

Administrators are only Discord mods

You probably meant to ping Stewards who are global Miraheze admins

[uneven brook]

Thank you for the clarification

[willow seal]

this isn't legal advice but if you don't give us rights to redistribute the content then we can't host it on our website that you use. it says its only for content from the site to users permitted to access the site

[jaunty latch]

^

Anything on your wiki, we can share with people who have access to your wiki

That’s kinda fundamental

[uneven brook]

in this case, isn't there a license that allows miraheze to appropriate the rights only to host content on Miraheze.org, but does not allow Miraheze to appropriate the rights to reuse that content as if it were the author?

[uneven brook]

it works for a public wiki, but does it work for a private wiki?

From what I've understood, only admins can see a private wiki

thank you for your replies, btw

[jaunty latch]

Again, who you permit

So if you only permit admins, we’ll only share with admins and our volunteers as needed

Private is admin + member

[uneven brook]

So a 'private' wiki is not really private. It's not open to everyone but it's definitely accessible to admins + volunteers and members chosen by the admins

Did I understand correctly?

[jaunty latch]

No

We will share content with whoever you allow us to share it plus those that require access in order for us to host your site

On a private wiki, you can add a user to the admin or members group to allow access

Our volunteers are: Stewards, System Administrators and our T&S staff

Stewards are community appointed people who look after a lot of issues that can be handled on wiki and enforce global policy

Sysadmins keep the technical stuff working

T&S deal with legal issues

All volunteers have signed NDAs and provided their name & an address to our board

[swift oxide]

No, this clause is there to allow us to even host your wiki. We don't hold the copyright and we're not in the business to usurp users of their ideas unlike some other companies.

that clause is purely there to actually even let us display any work

[uneven brook]

1 - So technically speaking, an administrator can see a private wiki. And then, people who have permission to see that wiki can see it too (unless they have not received permission from the wiki creator)

No, this clause is there to allow us to even host your wiki. We don't hold the copyright and we're not in the business to usurp users of their ideas unlike some other companies.
that clause is purely there to actually even let us display any work

2 - That's good to know. Is there a webpage saying that in an official way?
Sorry if I show mistrust but I want to be sure I use the right tool for the right project

[jaunty latch]

Section 7 of our privacy policy outlines when Miraheze would share information

And all our volunteers are bound by NDAs

The license you grant will apply to anyone who can see your content except under the circumstances laid out in Section 7

[swift oxide]

1. Yes, local admins can see a wiki and so can the users they allow

2. That we don't sell your personal work? I can write one if you want but we've never done that and never will, it's just rude.

[jaunty latch]

Generally, our volunteers who need it, our hosts so they can actually host your wiki, anyone who bought Miraheze, anyone to prevent a threat to life, limb or property, in response to a court order (we’ll tell you) and for data analysis

You are more than welcome to seek legal advice as required

[uneven brook]

Thanks for these information

Another question. Why Miraheze was created?

On the website, it is said it's a non profit organisation. Usually, many stuffs / projects are created for money purposes. So if it's not for money, how do you manage to keep the project alive?

[visual ore]

donations

same goes for Wikipedia, which is a part of huge non commercial project

web archive in the same area

and AO3 too?

not sure

[swift oxide]

Miraheze was created to let anyone create a wiki, that's it. It wasn't made with the intention to generate money but rather just to let users make their own wikis. We're run 100% by donations but we don't have any paid staff at all, everyone you see here and working behind the scenes does so without pay, we're all volunteers

It's crazy to think about it but our only goal is to be a good wiki farm that lets users host their wikis without so much hassle

[uneven brook]

I think you can indeed understand how rare it is to see this kind of thing today, knowing that any big project often hides lucrative purposes

but I believe you if you say you are doing it voluntarily

but again, what prompted you to create Miraheze?

"Miraheze was created to let anyone create a wiki, that's it."

Other people could have done it, so why you? Is it because you have been passionate about creating wikis for several years?

[jaunty latch]

The origins date back a long while

Orain came before Miraheze and it had a few management issues

Which led to Miraheze splitting off and the eventual downfall of Orain

[quartz falcon]

others could have done it but nobody had the right balance of motivation, competence and initial resources

it helps that, per above, miraheze is a successor concept to a project that was similar in principle

miraheze has since survived by getting enough people to continue the vision after the founders and enough people willing to donate enough to keep the platform going year by year, though it is a constant thought when donations don't always scale in proportion to growth in use

[mystic charm]

Other people could have done it, so why you?
Well, the same reason why anyone else might do it. If it wasn't for Miraheze, then someone else might have the idea as well. Then you would be asking the same question: "Why you?" It's actually dumb question to ask, as you could ask anyone this question. The important thing is that it exists and you can use it freely.

[quartz falcon]

well I wouldn't call it dumb per se but yes, it comes down to the right people having the idea at the right time and just doing it + luck and just enough will to get past the earliest days where such projects typically never get traction or simply fail

[uneven brook]

I agree with raidarr

I don't think asking the question "why you" is a dumb question. On the contrary, I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why a person would want to take on this project. And that was the point of my question

Behind Miraheze there are humans and I find it relevant to know what motivated one or the other to create such a project

[willow seal]

Miraheze as an entity has been run by a team of volunteers and the people behind that have changed repeatedly over the years. Who is ‘you’ in ‘why you’? Because some of the people here now weren’t here 5 years ago and some of the people here 5 years ago aren’t still here. Several volunteers have written blurbs about what they do and sometimes why they do it but it seems like there isn’t really one answer to your question and probably a full answer wouldn’t even fit in a discord message.

I myself joined the project a few months after it started because I knew some people on it from the days when Orain existed and I knew about that site from using a wiki on it and then eventually becoming a volunteer just to help out. Eventually more or less stopped contributing as I just lost motivation to handle a lot of the mundane work

The older anniversary pages included blurbs written by most volunteers, see https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Miraheze-1-year and similar

[uneven brook]

Thanks for the explanations!

[mystic charm]

Yeah. In a community entity, like Miraheze, you can't simply ask "why you", because the people behind the project are costantly changing. There might be a founder, who isn't related to the project anymore. Like you could ask Mojang why they created Minecraft, but who would be able to answer you? Someone who isn't in Mojang anymore, which is Notch. People are constantly changing. I didn't mean it that way, when I said it's a dumb question to ask, it's just that it doesn't really make sense in a community driven project. The correct answer should be "What was the initial motivation for creating this community". Yet the current leader might still not be able to answer with a full answer.