balance-feedback-discussion

[nocturne fiber]

Cheetahs have like a 50% success rate compared to the average 20-30% success rate of ambush hunters

[pure plank]

that isnt very successful lol

[olive wraith]

You guys are clueless lmao... 50% is extremely successful

[pure plank]

even if it was that i got 20 to 40 percent

[hollow canyon]

"Cheetah - 58% successful kills
A study from the Serengeti in 2012 observed 192 cheetah pursuits, of which 114 ended in a kill – a success rate of 58%.24 Nov 2021"

that's very high, absurdly high as a matter of fact

[nocturne fiber]

For a ambush hunter 50% is pretty good

[pure plank]

i think it is kinda hard to measure stuff like that bc it is totally situational

[hallow spire]

Don’t they get there kills taken all the time?

[nocturne fiber]

However Cheetahs are fucking twinks and usually get their meals stolen by nearly everything

From vultures to lions

[pure plank]

but yeah ill give you benefit of the doubt 50 percent isnt very successful still

[pure plank]

yep

[olive wraith]

Lol

[hollow canyon]

yes, but I think the conversation is about their success rate while hunting not about how successful they are as a species

[olive wraith]

Half the hunts, they get fed, NOT SUCCESSFUL APPARENTLY.

[hollow canyon]

if it's about the latter then yea Cheetahs aren't successful, poor things almost went extinct a couple of tens of thousands years ago

it's irrelevant to The Isle btw

[nocturne fiber]

Half the hunts are successful, does not mean they actually get to eat most of their kills tho

[hallow spire]

Well I take back what I said then

[hollow canyon]

Carno is no Cheetah

[nocturne fiber]

Nah carno is still a cheetah

[pure plank]

we were talking about carnos so i mentioned you have to be sneaky like a cheetah

[olive wraith]

As I said earlier, Carno is a polar bear cheetah imo

[nocturne fiber]

It’s a super fast twink that is slightly more buff

[pure plank]

why are polar bear?

[hollow canyon]

Carno is a pretty trash ambush hunter too, its kit isn't designed around ambushing stuff

[olive wraith]

It's thicc

[pure plank]

carnos dont have very good endurence

[hollow canyon]

because it's a bulky and robust animal

[nocturne fiber]

Once Cerato gets added it’s gonna get godamn bullied off of its food

[pure plank]

i reckon cerato will be fine

[dusky surge]

why the fuck are we talking about cheetahs when there are 0 (zero) cheetahs in the Isle

[pure plank]

its bite force will be way higher then carno

for sure

[hollow canyon]

most carnivores aside from tyrannosaurids are rather lanky and gracile compared to Carno

[nocturne fiber]

Because it’s fun to talk about cheetahs??????

[hallow spire]

There comparing cheetahs and carnos don’t mind us😂

[hollow canyon]

the likes of Sucho, Bary or Cerato are literal twigs

[nocturne fiber]

No dawg I’m saying that Cerato will probably bully carnos off of their food

[dusky surge]

doubt it'll be "way" higher

[keen plover]

Imagine trample. Why charge something when you can run into it?

[pure plank]

oh lol yeah

[dusky surge]

cera is smaller than a carno so it shouldn't be significantly out-damaging one

[pure plank]

just judging by the jaw size alone

[nocturne fiber]

Smaller but bulkier

[hollow canyon]

oh yea it's bullying it so hard

[dusky surge]

depends how strong cerato ends up being, because there's also a chance the carno turns its ass around and just fucking steamrolls it

[hallow spire]

I’m sorry but something about carnos legs in this pic are hilarious💀

[dusky surge]

carno has strong legs

[hollow canyon]

Carno has no legs

[hallow spire]

The legs compared to its arms are just wow😂

[hollow canyon]

yea well, Carno is known as one of the theropods with the smallest arms

legs are just kind of made up though

[nocturne fiber]

Abelisaurids in general

[pure plank]

show the cross section

[hallow spire]

U think carno would be able to knockdown cerato or no?

[pure plank]

but yeah if you jsut look at that the cerato is going to suck ass

[hollow canyon]

you mean this?

[pure plank]

yeah the carnos fucked

look at the jaw size

[hollow canyon]

Nah, Carno dwarfs Cerato

[keen plover]

Yes

[pure plank]

if we are basing this off legacy im pretty sure the cerato has double the bite force

[hollow canyon]

Carno would ragdoll Cerato into extinction, stronger jaws, larger, faster, more robust and bulky

[dusky surge]

im cautious on the whole "cerato bullies and destroys carno!!!" thing because
A: Cerato SHOULD be smaller than a carno
B: Cerato should not be so insanely powerful that a carno, an animal around 1.5x its size at least, runs and hides in fear of it because then it just becomes a weird apex which nothing can face within the current roster besides the apex-level animals

[hollow canyon]

good thing we're not

[dusky surge]

we arent

[hollow canyon]

Not that it matters cause Carno literally destroys Cerato in legacy

[dusky surge]

legacy balance is dead and will not return (thank God)

[keen plover]

yeah cera was carno food lol

[hollow canyon]

It's one of the most unfair match ups in that game

[pure plank]

i dont think the carno will be help less bc its fast as fuck i think they would be fairly matched maybe cerato in favour we just dont know

[hollow canyon]

if a good Carno shows up Cerato can just alt+f4 in legacy

[dusky surge]

doubtful, very likely favoured carno

[hollow canyon]

I think Carno should stomp it unless Cerato gets upsized

which... I mean hell why not - let's go with a 2t Cerato

and make Giga larger than Rex

full on Jurrasic Park style hell yea

[pure plank]

carno seems overly large im not sure if im right

[dusky surge]

carno is normally sized

[hallow spire]

It used to be way bigger in the game

[dusky surge]

cerato is just really fucking small irl

[keen plover]

it's a good 300kg smaller than irl max size

iirc?

[hollow canyon]

Yea old Carno used to be larger than Allo

[dusky surge]

carno is basically 2x the size of cerato irl

[hollow canyon]

yea max estimate of Carno is something along the lines of 2.1t

[keen plover]

used to be 2T in game lol

[pure plank]

carnos suck ass against allos lol

[keen plover]

well yes

[dusky surge]

thats not at all what he said but sure

[hollow canyon]

I mean, Allo isn't in the game, I'm just saying that Carno before the size nerf was the size of an Allosaurus

[pure plank]

legacy

[hollow canyon]

larger than an Allosaurus actually

[keen plover]

what

[hallow spire]

?

[short spire]

We literally know cerato is stronger than carno it’s in the damn trail cam

[hollow canyon]

what does legacy have to do with anything?

[pure plank]

... pretty sure allo is heavier and bulkier

[hollow canyon]

Carno's bulkier out of the two but yea Allo is heavier

[short spire]

Just because carno is physically larger does not mean it’s heavier/stronger

Carno is a light fast ambush predator

[hollow canyon]

at length parity Carno is heavier by a couple hundred kg than Allosaurus

it also has a stronger bite

[keen plover]

That doesn't have to mean stronger. Maybe it has a deterrent?

[hallow spire]

I talked about that once and one of the devs say he likes to predict how balancing is gonna be like that so it’s not confirmed or anything that cera is gonna bully carno like that

[pure plank]

larger is reference to mass not height

[dusky surge]

carno is a fucking muscle-bound dense bastard

[hollow canyon]

literally the exact description of what Carno is not lol

[pure plank]

sure carno is slightly taller but it isnt larger

[hollow canyon]

that's pretty much exactly what it is

[dusky surge]

carno is larger

[hollow canyon]

it's not taller and it's not larger than Allo

[short spire]

Carno sucks in sustained fights and people are gonna realize this once bulkier carnivores are added

[hollow canyon]

it is more robust though

[dusky surge]

cerato isn't bulkier tho

[hollow canyon]

The bulkier carnivores are like... Albertosaurus I think?

[short spire]

Allo? Lol

[hollow canyon]

There aren't many bulkier theropods on the roster tbh

[dusky surge]

people REALLY want their carno killer which cerato, unfortunately, absolutely is not

[hollow canyon]

Allo is more lanky than Carno

it's just larger

[short spire]

Allo Rex Alberto giga acro

[pure plank]

carno and allo have the same average mass

carno is not larger

[short spire]

The worst thing about carno for sustained fights is it’s abysmal turn radius

[hollow canyon]

Rex and Alberto are bulkier, Allo is less bulky, idk about Acro and Giga, never tried to check how bulky they are compared to Carno but they aren't particularly bulky animals

[pure plank]

but its good the utahs need help

carnos destroy utahs

[hollow canyon]

wdym "the average mass"? We have just one specimen of Carnotaurus there are no averages there

[short spire]

Carno has high speed and burst damage but it’s not super heavy and it can’t turn for shit

So it’s an ambush predator

[hollow canyon]

the game is going with the largest paleoaccurate estimate for the most part which makes Allo larger

[true ginkgo]

As people don't like the idea of dryo getting lower than 20N damage, what would people do to make hypsi not get killed be a passing one shot by it?

[pure plank]

i am talking about real life the mass of an average allo and an average carno is about the same

[keen plover]

If that's what cerato is, then it's such a boring way of going about it.

[short spire]

Increase hypsi weight

[dusky surge]

wdym by this

[hollow canyon]

I'm telling you there's no such thing as "average carno" - there's just one specimen of Carnotaurus that we have ever found

[keen plover]

Like if it's just stronger in a fight, then imo, it's boring. Like no tactic to it, just bite

[short spire]

Imo cerato should be a bulky slow bully

[hollow canyon]

Carno is quite heavy for an animal of that size actually

[pure plank]

alright what is your point

[keen plover]

I want survivalist, smaller cera.

[dusky surge]

well, yea, cerato should be something you're UNWILLING to fight, not something that just destroys you for getting close. It should have a bunch of frustrating bullshit to make you fuck off, not just "kills you for being near food"

[true ginkgo]

It would go above paleo estimates and might need a tiny model size increase...

Then again, playables that small arn't great and can't even see over the grass to that might not be a bad thing.

[keen plover]

Leave all that carno beating to allo and alberto lol

[hollow canyon]

idk how I can explain it in more easier words - there is no such thing as "an average" Carnotaurus, our entire sample size for this animal is 1 - there's just ONE carnotaurus skeleton that has ever been found. You can't make an average with a sample size of one.

[short spire]

Yeah just wait 5 more years

[pure plank]

i am aware what is your point

[keen plover]

Ok. Then wait. Don't need to make every carnivore just bigger than carno. Keep it true to what ceras size was. Don't balance it around one matchup and make it large.

[short spire]

I’m not saying make it bigger just make it tanky and slow

Wasn’t it like 2 tons in legacy

[keen plover]

2250kg iirc

[short spire]

Yeah

[dusky surge]

and legacy sucked with balance so they grossly oversized it to compensate

cera was only that big because the game's systems were so pathetic that weighing it less would make it more trash than it already ended up being

[keen plover]

utah was 1000kg 💀

[short spire]

Oh lmao

[hollow canyon]

my point is that the statement that these two have "the same average mass" is misguided and borderline misinformation. We have a tonne of Allosaurs and one Carnotaurus, when you say that their average mass is "the same" it makes it seem like you're implying there's an actual sample size for Carnoaturus.

[hallow spire]

Dear god💀

[hollow canyon]

1100kg actually

[keen plover]

pachy was 1400kg

[keen plover]

Really? pretty sure it was 1000kg and 1200hp

[dusky surge]

(legacy bad and stupid and should never be used for reference when discussing EVRIMA balance)

[pure plank]

just following what i look up on google lol

[short spire]

Still I think cera would be more interesting as a slow moving bully than as just an in between for utah and carno

[hollow canyon]

that's Dilo but the reverse - 1050hp and 1200kg weight

[hollow canyon]

oh fair enough, I see

[hollow canyon]

it would have to get upsized by a tonne

[keen plover]

Yeah. That was legacy. Dilo was heavier yet had less hp than a utah. While sub rex was allo sized but had 4000hp

[dusky surge]

i'd give cera resistances, like bleed resist, fracture resist and venom resist to make it a real honey badger-esque animal, but I wouldn't inflate its health/weight to make it something it isn't

[hallow spire]

I’m excited for dilo

[hollow canyon]

...quite literally

[short spire]

Is there a current planned weight for it

[short spire]

Yeah that’s a good idea

[hollow canyon]

it was on the old roadmap which labeled it a "small carnivore"

Carno in comparison was labeled a "medium carnivore"

[keen plover]

I think with resistances like those, you shouldn't also change the damage modifiers for head or body

[hollow canyon]

I generally think that animals should be what they are more or less I don't like the idea of tinkering with their sizes to an impossible degree but

[dusky surge]

do you mean "shouldn't you"

or i shouldn't do it

[pure plank]

wait what an actual good suggestion

[hollow canyon]

w/e let's go full on Jurasic Park - 2t Cerato, 5t Allo, 13t Giga

[keen plover]

shouldn't do it *

[dusky surge]

good

[pure plank]

the leg break resistance seems like a little much but the 0 bleed and shit would be cool

[keen plover]

fracture resistances would be fine assuming pachys are faster

[hallow spire]

Yep

[keen plover]

So they can both run away and not gang up on a cera and win by fracturing it to hell

[dusky surge]

these resistances would mean its resistant to things like utahs, troodons and other animals, while also being able to avoid getting destroyed by shit like pachy. It's a bully because its exceptionally difficult for smaller animals to protect their kills from it, as it can shrug off their weaponry

[pure plank]

maybe if the leg break walk is faster than usual but it seems like a little to much but idk

[dusky surge]

do you know how EVRIMA fractures work?

because leg break is very antiquated

[pure plank]

mhm

kinda i guess idk just like normal leg fractures

[dusky surge]

honestly, yea, fracture resist seems like it could be either or, but I still believe it should have a decent bleed resist (something like deino's 0.5 resist?) and venom resist

[pure plank]

oh yeah the bleed thing would be cool

[dusky surge]

bleed resist is already in the game with deino

[pure plank]

maybe it should have fracture resistance not immunity

[dusky surge]

i never implied immunity

[pure plank]

bc hat would be terrible

[dusky surge]

i said resistance the first time

[pure plank]

oh

[hallow spire]

If cera gets resistance it shouldn’t be on the same level as deino

[dusky surge]

cera wouldn't be "immune" to anything

[pure plank]

...

[dusky surge]

just resistant

[pure plank]

i mean if resistence was a factor in the game then that means everything needs little bit of resistance

[short spire]

I mean I think ceratos main way of eating is gonna be stealing kills from other things, i don’t think it’ll be fast enough/have enough stamina to make many kills on its own

[dusky surge]

resistance is a factor

[pure plank]

so it would be kinda hard to implement

[dusky surge]

deino is the only animal in the game with resistance to bleed

[pure plank]

oh what

but like im talking about fracture resistance

and stuff like that

[dusky surge]

also in

[hallow spire]

Yea they setting it up to do that and eat rotten meat

[dusky surge]

pachy has complete immunity to head fractures

[pure plank]

is that set for every dino? or is it a specialty for pachy?

[dusky surge]

only pachy has that unique trait, but fracture resistance is in

[pure plank]

obviously you arent a dev so you wouldnt know but idk

[dusky surge]

and minmi has confirmed venom resistance

[pure plank]

exactly thats why it would be hard to implement

[dusky surge]

no it wouldn't?

[pure plank]

youd have to go back in the code and shit

[dusky surge]

its literally already in

[pure plank]

not hard more just annoying

[dusky surge]

nothing has it yet

but bleed, fracture and venom resistances are all planned mechanics

[pure plank]

planned

you know thats code word for im gonna do it later because i want to work on the framework

[dusky surge]

what?

[short spire]

That is literally the devs job

[dusky surge]

its codeword for "going to happen"

[pure plank]

yep exactly

[dusky surge]

also fracture and bleed resist are already mechanics

[pure plank]

unless we have a dev we dont know if its for every dinosaur

thats all i am saying

[short spire]

What???

[dusky surge]

it was never intended to be for every dinosaur

for example, only deino has a bleed resist of anything but 0

[pure plank]

to make dinosaurs quicker you should make a framework and for every dinosaur to have new features you should add them as neutral factors so it is easy to implement in newer dinosaurs

[dusky surge]

(well technically EVERY dinosaur has a "bleed resist" but most are just 0 so it does literally nothing)

[pure plank]

makes game dev more efficient

thats all im saying

[dusky surge]

which is why they've already added fracture resist despite no dinosaurs CURRENTLY using it

[keen plover]

i'm lost

[dusky surge]

every dinosaur has fracture resist but its all set to zero

every dinosaur has bleed resist but it's all set to zero (except deino who takes half bleed)

[pure plank]

thats what i was asking

[keen plover]

someone decode this. I'm lost. Is it in response to the bleed resistance thing?

[dusky surge]

idk either

[fallen turret]

It would be cool if pteras could pick players up, like babies. Would make more people play it

[dusky surge]

wait for quetz

[fallen turret]

And they would actually be a threat

[dusky surge]

ptera eats fish, it's not meant to be a threat

quetz is the flying threat

[fallen turret]

is that the big one?

[keen plover]

ptera does what? 20-25n now? Pretty strong

[pure plank]

it was in response to it was never intended

[keen plover]

ah

[pure plank]

perfect diet gives you more attack?

[fallen turret]

In theory it is, but in practice it's pretty weak

[keen plover]

no

[fallen turret]

But they're not that big to begin with

[keen plover]

As long as you have 1/3 diets, you deal the same damage as 3/3 diets

[fallen turret]

Is quetz going to be added?

[dusky surge]

yes

[keen plover]

Eventually

[pure plank]

exaclty

[fallen turret]

is it on legacy?

[hallow spire]

No

[pure plank]

eventually as in 5 years from now

[dusky surge]

kind of?

[keen plover]

well yes

[dusky surge]

its super janky and shitty tho

[pure plank]

yes but no

[keen plover]

[fallen turret]

I see

[dusky surge]

and completely inaccessible to anyone but devs atm

[pure plank]

its like the ptera in evirma

[fallen turret]

ah ok

[pure plank]

janky but usable

[keen plover]

nothing like ptera

[fallen turret]

is it able to pick up players?

[keen plover]

No.

[dusky surge]

absolutely nothing like ptera

[pure plank]

i dont think it can even be attacked

[keen plover]

It might as well not be playable. You can't even sit

[pure plank]

as in i dont think it even has a hitbox

[dusky surge]

idk why you made that comparison because ptera is 20x the quality of legacy quetz

[keen plover]

It's actually unplayable. Just fly.

[fallen turret]

Imagine playing as quetz, picking up a baby stego, ascending up to a mountain top to drop it to your younglings

or maybe not a baby stego

that would be too big for the small ones maybe

[keen plover]

idk about a baby stego

[fallen turret]

something smaller

[keen plover]

maybe up to like 100kg

[fallen turret]

the baby stego would crush them

on its way down

[pure plank]

quetz is pretty big

[dusky surge]

quetz is also fucking lightweight

[pure plank]

do you know how much lift it would have its fucking massive

[fallen turret]

terrifying

[keen plover]

500kg quetz would probs lift like

20% of its weight idk

[pure plank]

i mean its not massive as in factually massive lol its massive as it its quite wide

[pure plank]

thats if we are following the isle rules

but there is so much more exceptions like how much lift its wings would produce

[keen plover]

would be odd if it picked up anything too large, but that's future balance

[pure plank]

yeah of course im not talking about it picking up fully grown stegos lol

but it could definitely pick up atleast 400kg

surely

[keen plover]

to me, anything 200-300kg is too large

[dusky surge]

400kg seems excessive

[keen plover]

That's almost a utah, idk

[short spire]

No point in picking up anything, anything it would be able to pick up it would just bite

[pure plank]

a utah is a big human lol

[keen plover]

huh

[pure plank]

its maybe as tall as a human it seems possible

[dusky surge]

what

[keen plover]

a utah is massive

[fallen turret]

its as tall as a giraffe

[pure plank]

pretty much

[dusky surge]

quetz is also super fucking lightweight because it needs to fly

[short spire]

Average human weighs 70 kg lmao

[fallen turret]

utah is a dense boy

[pure plank]

not the average american lol thats 50000 kilos

[fallen turret]

not false

[short spire]

Europeans making the 483856272847th Americans fat joke

[fallen turret]

not false

[pure plank]

not european

so yes that is false

[fallen turret]

Utah is a big bigger than a human

and has a lot more mass

[short spire]

Quetz would weigh less than a utah anyways lol

[fallen turret]

you think?

[pure plank]

have you seen the size of a quetz

[fallen turret]

maybe you're right

[pure plank]

its almost the height of a giraffe

[dusky surge]

def lighter than a utah

[dusky surge]

thats about right

[pure plank]

light boi

[fallen turret]

yeah

[dusky surge]

quetz needs to fly

[short spire]

It has to fly so it would be incredibly light

Hollow bones

[pure plank]

most definitely

[dusky surge]

you don't see dense birds besides the flightless ones for a reason

[fallen turret]

Its mostly wings

[pure plank]

yeah lol its membrane and eyes

[fallen turret]

how much does a utah weigh?

[pure plank]

someone said 400 kilos

surely it could pick up a utah

[fallen turret]

oh that much?

no, doesnt seem plausible

Means it has to carry around 650 kg

[pure plank]

youd imagine it atleast be able to pick up it body weight

[pure plank]

potato potato

[keen plover]

450kg in game

[fallen turret]

ok

[short spire]

Maybe but it wouldn’t be able to fly carrying that lol

[keen plover]

roughly the same irl

[short spire]

The reason it’s so light is because it has to fly

[fallen turret]

yeah

[pure plank]

im also thinking about how strong it would be

[fallen turret]

I would guess it could pick up anything up to 100-110 kgs

[pure plank]

also yes ik ive mentioned how big the wings are

[fallen turret]

with ease

[pure plank]

they would generate so much lift

[fallen turret]

Maybe heavier with some difficulty

for short periods of time

[pure plank]

it is hard to quantify heavy bc it is relative

it would be disappointing if it could only pick up 100

[short spire]

If quetz could have evolved to be heavier it would have

On the ground I could see it dragging things it’s own weight, carrying things half it’s weight

But flying it could barely carry anything

[pure plank]

by heavier you mean grow in muscle mass right?

[short spire]

Yes

[azure crescent]

it would be reasonable

quetz won’t pick up things without it being super beefed out

it’s supposed to hunt small tiers on foot

[strong solar]

@pearl wadi I have never touched stego or grown one but no animal that big and slow should get 1 shotted by a deino or killed by 2 carnos 🤨 yeah it’s overtuned rn but that’s much

[golden coral]

@pearl wadiTwo carnos should take on a stego? Yeah no, that's a no go. Stego already has an extra multiplier, there's no need for anything more. Deino is not meant to just bite a stego to death at that, and they can take one on in a duo, using lunge and bites.

[dusky surge]

counterpoint, it is a herbivore, and thus food

you play herbivores to be a part in feeding the carnivores

[strong solar]

herbivores aren’t walking meat trucks

[pearl wadi]

i didnt say that in game it should be one shot... i said in reality it would be... here in game it should be times three the regular damge your individual attack deals

[strong solar]

if they were killed so easily nobody would play them, like in legacy

[dusky surge]

legacy is a perfect example of what everyone wants from herbivores. The weaker, shittier counterpart to carnivores that die and feed them

[pearl wadi]

two carnos should definitely be able to do that if they play smart... we are talking about two predators which weight is roughly 2 tons

[dusky surge]

"everyone" being these rabid carnivore mains

[strong solar]

yeah I’d like to avoid this game being just like legacy💀 what a hell spawn of a game

[dusky surge]

vs a fucking apex-tier herbivore that made allosaurus yield? No way lmao

[golden coral]

No, they should not. Stego is still over twice the size, and heavily weaponized. Not at all a target for a carno, especially not in this game with how it's designed.

[short spire]

But Allo isn’t in the game right now so basically nothing can challenge Stego

[strong solar]

if stego died to two carnos it would fold in front of an acro, allos, Alberta, giga, Rex, etc etc

[dusky surge]

over 3x the size

[pearl wadi]

its head is definitely a weak point... and it should be balanced like that

[strong solar]

when you’re built like a tank you gotta kill like a tank

[dusky surge]

good news, it is a weak point

[short spire]

I think Stego should be balanced around the current roster and buffed when bigger carnis are added

[pearl wadi]

pab let me guess you are a stego main and dont play anything other than a stego 😉

[golden coral]

Correct, but that does not mean everything is prey to everything. Of course everything in the full ecosystem should have a reasonable place, but we'll get there.

[short spire]

Bad argument strategy bro

[pearl wadi]

no its a fact

[strong solar]

no I usually play Carno or utah because I don’t have the time to grow 5 hours, I just like balanced and fun games

[dusky surge]

remember guys, when someone disagrees with you, make them out to be biased when they aren't. This will make you start winning automatically

[short spire]

Insulting people doesn’t make them more likely to change their mind

[strong solar]

if you want to believe that and make yourself feel better you can

[slim dragon]

eat grass and die

[golden coral]

It is, stego head has 2x mutliplier compared to normal 1.5. It already is more vunerable and weaker, and it has a rear attack at that, unlike the ones where the danger is also in their weak spot.

[pearl wadi]

its likely a fact... the stego is op af, and there is no discussion about it

[dusky surge]

Forever and ever

[golden coral]

As long as this applies to deino too, that's somewhat reasonable. Personally I think if so, the balance should be around making it properly difficult to hunt deino and stego, but not as "hard", and then just increase how hard it is later on with stats over mechanics as it were.

[pearl wadi]

tell me where was the insult 😄

[dusky surge]

its not an insult and more of just making them out to have a bias so you seem like the "better" in the argument, which is generally a poor strategy

i fucking hate playing stego but two carnos should not be killing one

[golden coral]

It's not really that op, utah packs can hunt them, as can deino pairs, and smaller ones can be hunted by carnos and everything else. Deino is about as untouchable, and can "one shot" most things with no real counterplay, much less any fun. I guess deino is also op then.

[strong solar]

the mains thing is usually a joke argument but if it’s used seriously it comes off as childish

I can agree with balancing deino and stego around the current roster since it takes 2 years to add a new dinosaur

[nocturne fiber]

Yeah they just shouldn’t have added stego yet, it’s in a completely different league compared to everything else

[dusky surge]

why oh why did they not add suchomimus with deino even tho they planned to 😔

[raw reef]

yeah considering carnos the fastest and stegos the slowest rn lol

[dusky surge]

sucho and allo would be fine for EVRIMA imho and would be great gaps between the current roster and the two big boys

[strong solar]

honestly idk how sucho and deino are going to work together, I feel like sucho would get destroyed

[nocturne fiber]

Agreed agreed

[mighty knot]

Honestly this is what we need

[dusky surge]

it lives in shallows and weighs enough to not be in grab weight at adult

[raw reef]

sucho would probably be more terrestrial than aquatic,and go in for mostly fish and safety so

[short spire]

Need more herbis first

[dusky surge]

diablo when

[strong solar]

that could work

[mighty knot]

Stego shouldn't have been added without a carnivore counterpart in a similar weight class.

[short spire]

TRUE and other deino

[strong solar]

atleast bary could climb trees though 😂 I really like that about it’s concept art

[dusky surge]

disagree with this take

this would require an animal like rex or giga

[raw reef]

i mean rex or giga d be nice tho

[mighty knot]

yeah maybe similar weight class wasn't the right wording

[dusky surge]

(also deino technically IS that animal)

[pearl wadi]

no, its a very valid strategy to point out that someones opinion is very subjective, in this special case in comparison to my opinion cause i playes carno, utah and stego, my main is the utah

[golden coral]

Acro would be nice! :p

[raw reef]

something like allo

[mighty knot]

still freakin massive

[short spire]

But you don’t even know they’re a Stego main lmaooooo

[raw reef]

allo would be good since allos supposed to take down stegos and isnt too big for other carnivores

[golden coral]

@pearl wadiBut what you main doesn't matter for an argument...

[mighty knot]

allo would be perfect

[short spire]

And they weren’t too

[dusky surge]

not now. We have very little to support such an animal and it would fucking die from starvation as there is not a decent enough mid/large/apex roster to support it

[golden coral]

It would be yes, it's just a personal preference if we're talking about big carnis, since I think acro is cooler than giga or rex xD

[raw reef]

fair enough,allo tho,allo would be sexy

[strong solar]

trike and rex being released at the same time would be the smartest idea

[mighty knot]

Valid, acro is cooler than giga. Sadly acro is broke in legacy and also doesn't sound like giga.

[short spire]

Yeah we gotta have the smols before we have the bigs

[strong solar]

and I hope rex isn’t overtuned like in legacy… ew

[raw reef]

idk how they are gona make allo be able to fight stego with stegos ability to atack all around itself tho

[mighty knot]

Offtopic take but giga needs to sound exactly the same as it did in legacy. That shit was perfection. Dilo too

[dusky surge]

even so, that would simply widen the weight gap. Rex would rely on eating basically just trike and stego, and suffer eating the other small and quick animals

We can't do that

[mighty knot]

If they make rex fast I'm gonna croak

[strong solar]

hmm true

[dusky surge]

Giga should be faster than rex

[raw reef]

if rex gona be fast it should be fast for like 2-3 seconds lmao

[mighty knot]

Giga should be fast for it's weight class

[strong solar]

they would need to release a bunch of big dinosaurs first, like a ladder

[mighty knot]

it's built like a big allo

[dusky surge]

essentially, yes

deino is the exception to the "apex carnivore" rule as it's DESIGNED for hunting game much smaller than itself

rex and giga generally hunt around their own size, which is problematic with the roster we have

[strong solar]

also allo would be tankier and would ideally be able to take a hit or two from stego

[mighty knot]

Rex, giga, trike, theri, acro, ect.
None of those can be added until more midtier and up are added first.

[raw reef]

yeah but im guessing it would be way slower than carno,and carnos already too slow to hit and run a stego

[mighty knot]

However much fun I had playing giga in legacy, everything else has to be done first.

[raw reef]

so it would be just trading hits with the stego wich im guessing isnt a good idea

[azure crescent]

it’s not climbing

[dusky surge]

bary cant climb

[strong solar]

gotta bait it heh, attack in groups

bary can’t climb? Damn

[azure crescent]

why would it climb

[raw reef]

lmao bary climing would be absurd

[strong solar]

On a thick branch yeah

[mighty knot]

Stego is just tough for anything to fight. It takes the thing half a second to reach every part of it's body with an attack capable of instantly killing something the size of a carno.

[azure crescent]

no? It’s got no adaptations for it and gets no benefit from it

[raw reef]

yeah i was fighting stegos as carno i found the easies way to fight was just hitting the tip of the tail cuz geting to the head is impossible lmao

[strong solar]

I imagined it having a jaguar playstyle

[mighty knot]

Still in the mindset that stego needs to have 2 attacks. The poke it has now and a swing that can only hit left or right side. Swing does less damage and costs the stamina that the poke does now. Poke should be almost like a finishing ability and cost a fair bit of stam.

[dusky surge]

it is intended to have a jaguar playstyle (with more water and less trees)

[azure crescent]

bary is more inspired by bears

[dusky surge]

sucho is def the bear, not bary

[stark knoll]

*No trees

[azure crescent]

i agree but just quoting tapwing

[strong solar]

I assumed it could climb low trees to escape things like sucho and deino but ig not lol

[dusky surge]

if anyone's a bear, it's sucho

[azure crescent]

yes

[dusky surge]

it can just run the hell away its quick

[raw reef]

i have a question how can you exist in all chats in all times

[stark knoll]

I've got nothing better to do

[dusky surge]

sucho ain't catching a bary in a footrace and a deino stands NO chance

[raw reef]

fair enough

[azure crescent]

if the tree is low enough to be climbed by bary then a sucho reaches it

[dusky surge]

true

[strong solar]

Bro has to be a jet ski in the water

Actually yeah that sounds fun

[azure crescent]

not really you are faster on land

i can’t see bary outswimming deino

[dusky surge]

bary = jaguar
sucho = bear
spino = fucking swamp cryptid

[mighty knot]

Nothing should outswim an adult deino. But every semi-aquatic needs to outrun deino

[dusky surge]

deino should be VERY fast in water

its a fucking alligator

[strong solar]

yuh

[azure crescent]

deino’s dart should be the fastest form of movement on water

[dusky surge]

although i do kinda want beipi to be able to book it, if anyone's gonna do it

[mighty knot]

It's not much faster than it's sprint right now. Would be sort of neat if it was just a bit faster than it's normal movement.

[azure crescent]

yes

[dusky surge]

either beipi or deino should be fastest

no one else

[mighty knot]

Beipi is too tiny, where's it getting the power.

[dusky surge]

have you seen penguins and ducks swim my good man

[azure crescent]

webbed feet

[dusky surge]

they are FAST

[mighty knot]

valid didn't think of it as penguin

yeah maybe

[strong solar]

penguin gameplay

[mighty knot]

perhaps they could be slightly slower than deino

[dusky surge]

in the concept art we see it fucking DASH away from an allo

[nocturne fiber]

Penguin man

[strong solar]

I’m really excited for herrera

I wanna play as a Florida iguana

[mighty knot]

The problem with herrera is there is no reason for literally anything else to go into the jungle. It will be like playing deino outside of center or northwest. You just wait in ambush for exactly 0 players to pass by.

[azure crescent]

austro=decent speed
minmi=default speed, sticks to mudbanks
beipi=on par with deino
deino= the fastest
spino=can’t swim
sucho=bad speed for semiaquatic but good speed for terrestrial standards
bary=good speed

[mighty knot]

Of course that's assuming I'm remembering herrera correctly as the guy that drops down out of trees like a pounce

[mighty knot]

beautifully said

[slim dragon]

Spino unable to swim is

[mighty knot]

It's confirmed lol

[strong solar]

I believe some kind of herbi food source grows in the jungle but I forgot which

[dusky surge]

honestly if beipi can go faster than deino in these quick dashes, i'm fine with that

[slim dragon]

Still stupid as hell

[mighty knot]

I think it's cool af

[dusky surge]

spino killing deino consistently is also dumb but we all must cope with these things

[raw reef]

sl

[mighty knot]

yep :(

[raw reef]

spino???

[strong solar]

if sucho is a bear wtf is spino 🤨

[azure crescent]

thanks

[nocturne fiber]

Fucking Monsters Resurrected type beat

[azure crescent]

godzilla

[dusky surge]

godzilla

[strong solar]

LOl

[raw reef]

yyeah i accidentaly pressed enter,spino cant swim tho?

[dusky surge]

nope

[azure crescent]

yes

its a bottom walker

[strong solar]

Good

[raw reef]

..

[slim dragon]

What's cool with an animal that cannot move normally in its main environment ?
What does justify a theropod with the exact same build as any other but more adapted to water be unable to swim ?

[dusky surge]

rex gonna outswim spino btw

this is real lmao

[azure crescent]

it will probably be able to jump to the water surface to breathe

[raw reef]

..

no words fr

[azure crescent]

what

[dusky surge]

spino can't swim

[azure crescent]

true lmao

[dusky surge]

rex outswims it

[slim dragon]

Spino doesn't look nearly fat enough to be unable to swim

[azure crescent]

pachy outswims spino

[raw reef]

spino shouldnt be able to walk fr

[strong solar]

spino is gonna walk on the bottom like a giant hippo

[azure crescent]

hey man dont complain to me lol

[dusky surge]

rex wasn't even that bad a swimmer, so shockingly enough, i think that rex will be the best swimmer of the apex trio lmaoo

[azure crescent]

laughing in megalania

[dusky surge]

what the fuck does megalania have to do with that

[raw reef]

megalania is an apex?

[azure crescent]

it is to me

[mighty knot]

It's like a hippo

[raw reef]

fair enough

[dusky surge]

you are a fool

[azure crescent]

megalania is the fastest apex

[raw reef]

megalania fan club

[slim dragon]

And that really poses a problem
I often say that realism isn't important in a videogame, but coherency definitely is
And this isn't coherent at all

[mighty knot]

I forgot that thing is gonna be in the game

[slim dragon]

Apart from the fact that hippos are good swimmers

[raw reef]

in what year do yall think we are gona get megalania

[azure crescent]

and you will die drowning in foolishness, as the megalania horde outswims you

[dusky surge]

still pissed off with "spino ez kill deino" shit

[slim dragon]

1687

[azure crescent]

hopefully next year

[nocturne fiber]

2030

At least

[azure crescent]

same

[raw reef]

lmao next year is impossible

[azure crescent]

i know but shut up

[slim dragon]

Yeah I agree that a spino shouldn't want to attack a deino on sight
Just have a slight upper hand in a fight so deino doesn't attack a spino either

[mighty knot]

hippos jump on the bottom of the water

[azure crescent]

megalania is smaller than cera so probably

[nocturne fiber]

“Envirma will allow us to have quicker updates” fucking 8 months inbetween updates

[raw reef]

have we even gotten megalania concept art yet

[dusky surge]

obviously

[slim dragon]

They swim
Hippos being unable to swim is a myth

[azure crescent]

no but it only needs to be accurate to modern varanids to be good lmao

[raw reef]

waiting 8 months for an update that brings 100 bugs and breaks 200 things fr

[mighty knot]

never knew it was controversial
guess I'll have to look it up a bit more

interesting

[azure crescent]

if you see hippos chase a boat you’ll know its swimming

[nocturne fiber]

Updates will take 8 months only to bring us 1 or 2 new features

Like dawg that shit should take ALOT less time

[raw reef]

lol yeah

[mighty knot]

legit

update time is crazy for how broken each update leaves the game

[raw reef]

love how they nerfed the food values too,instead of fixing something thats a crime against god like stego rn

[strong solar]

nerfing the food values in the update that brings nesting

[nocturne fiber]

:)👍

[strong solar]

amazing idea 10/10 would do it again

[raw reef]

yeah i tried nesting as carno with a buddy since we just killed like 3 tenos

[mighty knot]

they should interact with the community about stuff

[raw reef]

guess what happened in the end

[short spire]

Waiting for you to do it better 🤨

[raw reef]

i had to eat my fucking own childeren cuz feeding babies takes 9 food lmao

[mighty knot]

like "hey we have these balance ideas that no one asked for, do we like them?"

[strong solar]

LOL???

[raw reef]

i swear bro it was either me or them and i wasnt going

[nocturne fiber]

Oh I’m sorry I’m not a fucking game dev, I didn’t learn to code and shit, and didn’t tell people that the updates didn’t come quicker

I hate that godamn excuse

[dusky surge]

they literally had stress testing for a reason my guy, the community literally agreed to this

[nocturne fiber]

It doesn’t excuse shit

[short spire]

Idk just seems like if it’s so easy someone else should have done it by now 🤷

[strong solar]

I couldn’t even nest as Carno because everytime the eggs were finished incubating the server would crash and roll back

[mighty knot]

i wasn't aware they had stress testing for the update

[short spire]

There’s been like what

[raw reef]

oof

[short spire]

5 isle clones?

[nocturne fiber]

BoB and PoT both have added more shit than Envirma has

[strong solar]

Happened twice before I just gave up

[azure crescent]

It’s true though. They can do this way quicker if the management was better

[dusky surge]

stego isnt that bad, everyone in the game can literally just ignore it

[short spire]

So why don’t you go play those ones lol

[raw reef]

na bro you canta nest as carno if you dont got something like stego/deino body lmao

[dusky surge]

(and still feel way worse to play from a gameplay perspective)

god I fucking hate BoB and PoT

[obtuse ocean]

yea but groups players, uthas etc. Cant stand that its hard to kill it

[strong solar]

Actually I was living just fine off of this deer spawn

and 2 carnos died near so we nested off those at first

[nocturne fiber]

Because I’m stupid as shit and still have hope for this game

[short spire]

Bob is incredibly unpolished and pot is just nut collecting simulator

[raw reef]

ah lmao

i was wondering how yall got so many deer

[strong solar]

“Nut collecting simulator”💀 the only reason why I hate that game besides the janky combat

[raw reef]

damn pot combat i actualy love

[dusky surge]

PoT combat is so shit imho

[obtuse ocean]

pot is so bad in combat, jees

[dusky surge]

BoB is even worse but y'know

[strong solar]

it was near nw, a nice little deer spawn. I think I found atleast 3 deer at the same time so it was pretty good

[stark knoll]

Discussions about other games can be held in #offtopic-discussion, please

[obtuse ocean]

Thats why you dont balance dinos, so they are evenly in 1v1. You need power diffrences so people die/run/bail.

[nocturne fiber]

Anyways what were we talking about

[strong solar]

dinosausr

[nocturne fiber]

Ah yes

…Anyways Hypsi needs a buff

[grave veldt]

Hypsi needs climbing that’s what it really needs also it needs a better spit mechanic

[strong solar]

climbing would be awesome, a nice place to make a nest

[grave veldt]

We already know that it will have climbing capabilities so that’s cool not sure if it will be as well of a climber as say herra but good enough that it can climb

[short spire]

We need a small predator like troodon so hypsi isn’t completely outmatched by everything

[strong solar]

Would troodon be an even 50/50 with hypsi?

[short spire]

Yeah 1v1 would probably be even

[azure crescent]

hie

[obtuse ocean]

unless night time ; )

[azure crescent]

how

its literally 3-4 times bigger than hypsi

[short spire]

Wait fr

[azure crescent]

yes lmao

[short spire]

I haven’t looked at size chart in a while

Lol

[strong solar]

where is the size chart

[azure crescent]

@pearl wadi why would 2 carnos kill stego

[pearl wadi]

to balance the current game better... stego is beside of a good utah pack unkillable

and beside that they made the stego way stronger and heavier like it was in reality

in reality the recent studies think of not more than 2000 kg in average

[dusky surge]

what

thats completely false

in every single way that is entirely incorrect

[obtuse ocean]

balance game better ? 2 carnos shouldt have anything on a stego

[pearl wadi]

read what i wrote

stego is assumed to have not more than 2000 kg in average weight

[stark knoll]

Some stego species have estimates up to 8T, I'd have to poke around

[dusky surge]

^

[stark knoll]

You happen to remember which species Wave?

[obtuse ocean]

Allo couldt even take it, didnt they live at same time

[dusky surge]

you may be thinking of some stegosaurid, but certainly not the stegosaurus we see in game

[pearl wadi]

show me the source of that 😄

[dusky surge]

for example, kentrosaurus is MUCH lighter than stegosaurus and is far closer to the weight you described

[dusky surge]

not on me, no, but i did read the study

[pearl wadi]

and the biteforce of carnos is way underrated in evrima

[dusky surge]

okay thats cool and all but carno still shouldn't be killing stego

deino has a biteforce of 500N in EVRIMA but for obvious reasons it is not realistic

[pearl wadi]

due to the geometry of jaws, muscles and bone structure you can assume that the carno stood out with biteforce similar to hyenas

[slim dragon]

Isn't stegosaurus ungulatus the 8 ton stegosaurus ?

[pearl wadi]

ye ye, but the apexes are just unbalanced atm especially to eacht other... and im talking about deinos and stegos

[azure crescent]

ok but this is a game that needs to be balanced lmao

2T stego is just plain wrong

carno shouldnt attack stego unless its a juvie stego

[pearl wadi]

yes 😄 you are right... thats what im saying

[true ginkgo]

evidently that's not popular either.

people want dryo to one shot hypsi.

[azure crescent]

but you’re balancing it wrong

[golden coral]

Quick note, biteforce is just damage in the game, not related to real life biteforce or anything.

[pearl wadi]

read through internet... the recent studies state that out

[dusky surge]

"thats what im saying"
suggests 2 ton stego, making the animal basically helpless

evidently

[strong solar]

the reason why 2 carnos can’t kill a stego is because stego would be slower and very easy to kill, it wouldn’t be viable

[azure crescent]

idk other people upvoted a suggestion with the same premise

[azure crescent]

source

[golden coral]

Last I heard, stego comes in at 7T, more or less. No idea where 2T stego comes from now.

[obtuse ocean]

You wanne group up and run around killing everything with ease or something

[dusky surge]

hes not going to give a source, it's def just some random stegosaurid and not the stegosaurus ingame

[azure crescent]

dude pulls up jurassic fight club

[dusky surge]

either that or he's making it up

[strong solar]

lmao

Ah yes the most reputable source

[obtuse ocean]

I like this comment : )

[mental roost]

I think it was Ungulatus that breached the 8 ton mark?? Stenops wasn’t far behind if I recall properly

[pearl wadi]

Raven nailed it... just on point 😄

[azure crescent]

i have yet to see the studies you mentioned

[pearl wadi]

i am german and i can give you german language sources if you like

[azure crescent]

i am fine with that

just give me the study that says stego was 2T

[frail bobcat]

I can translate

[azure crescent]

please do

my german is quite rusty

[pearl wadi]

no... it wouldnt be helpless, could also stand his ground against one carno alone with decent damage... but has to play smart

[strong solar]

🤨

[frail bobcat]

To slow to run away from bigger dudes

[azure crescent]

a stego is huge, it’s supposed to not care about stuff like carno

[frail bobcat]

Gets fucked up by even one utah

[azure crescent]

2T just ruins that

anyway where is the study

[frail bobcat]

Just show us the fucking study

[stark knoll]

2t stego is kentro, basically

[stark knoll]

Cool it

[azure crescent]

thats what im thinking

i think he read something about a stegosaur, not stegosaurus

[stark knoll]

I did see an estimation of a young adult stenops from NHMUK near 2k kg

[frail bobcat]

But kentro got some cool stuff with spikes while stego hasnt

[stark knoll]

Emphasis on young adult

Additionally it was from 2015

[true ginkgo]

yeah not sure why it's so unpopular.

[strong solar]

oh yeah speaking of kentro, how do y’all think that’ll be balanced

Is kentro fast?

[azure crescent]

possibly this means that they had a shift in growth speed at that age?

[pearl wadi]

i made quick search and found the original scientific studiy... its english language https://www.researchgate.net/publication/273100271_Body_mass_estimates_of_an_exceptionally_complete_Stegosaurus_Ornithischia_Thyreophora_Comparing_volumetric_and_linear_bivariate_mass_estimation_methods

[obtuse ocean]

i think kentro gonna be hell for smaller dinos

[stark knoll]

Yes this is the exact study I saw

Young adult specimen

I was able to find the full text, one sec

[azure crescent]

it’s not an adult specimen

[strong solar]

subadult stego can be killed by 2 carnos iirc

[azure crescent]

they probably had a huge growth curve at that age

[pearl wadi]

where do you read its not adult?

[strong solar]

if the carnos are careful

[azure crescent]

lunary is searching rn

[stark knoll]

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rsbl.2014.0984#d3e306

[pearl wadi]

ok thanks

[stark knoll]

Full article and snippet of materials

[azure crescent]

“is classified as ‘young adult’”

[pearl wadi]

but there are also figures between 2355 and 3751... take the middle and we are roughly around 3 tons... fair enough and far from now

[stark knoll]

Additionally there's been a ton of GDI changes in the past 2-3 years and this is from 2015

[stark knoll]

For a young adult, yes

I'd have to poke around in #paleotalk for more

[pearl wadi]

no they predict that for full adulthood

at least its written in summary

[stark knoll]

No, they said those estimates were from viewing the same specimen as an adult

These new estimates were when they realized the materials were from a growing animal

[mental roost]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/918590669885427722/944350794357026836/stegosaurus_stenops_skeletal_reconstruction__by_randomdinos_df09b8v-fullview.png?width=1324&height=674

Managed to dig this up

Not entirely sure why it's not using Sophie's proportions; but oh well

[stark knoll]

Either way, this has gone waaaaaaay into #paleotalk and that's my bad lol

[mental roost]

Kinda.. eitherway; Stego isn't a very small animal... and balance wise, 2 tons is pretty bad for it.

[stark knoll]

Very bad

And we have kentrosaurus planned

[mental roost]

I'm honestly pretty curious to see how Kentrosaurus turns out..

[strong solar]

the model looks great

maybe a defense mechanic will be added, like when you bite its spikes you get a small amount of bleed

[mental roost]

I'm not a huge fan of the skin but the skin system and patterns are out now, so by the time it arrives, I'm sure it'll have some better colors and pattern options(I'd love to make a striped and dotted Kentrosaurus).

[strong solar]

ooo

Yeah I sure hope more patterns come out for every dino

Right now we got the superior one and the one I never want to see again

[hollow canyon]

That's Sophie, the game bases the weights of animals on the largest specimens, Sophie is a midget.

The largest Stegosaurus is Stegosaurus ungulatus whose weight estimates come out at around 7t

Also - Carnotaurus would bite much, much harder than a hyena, that thing is estimated to have a bite over twice stronger than an Alligator but... that's irl. In the game Carnotaurus is a small game hunter meant to go after animals smaller than itself out in the open.

Tenontosaurus is just about the largest animal it's meant to be hunting(barring another Carno ofc)

[hollow canyon]

It can be soloed by Carno but... not every Carno

[frail bobcat]

@latent hamlet he is smoking the good stuff

[latent hamlet]

@floral nebula your feedback makes no sense,"I would highly suggest increasing hp of stego, and lowering carno's attack bite. It's very unbalanced that I almost killed him there after attacking only 15 times. Furthermore, sub adult stego had to swing his tail twice to kill full grown carno! That's not herbivore friendly at all! He should be able to one shot me so I could get pure balance experience. fix ur game clowns carno is unplayable " > you are asking to increase stego hp and lower the carno bite attack damage? Then you say "fix your game ###### ,carno is unplayable" What are you smoking man? You are attacking a stego as full adult carno solo, what are you thinking? You keept attacking at his tail and got slapped, like what? You were greedy, you should attack a stego from front or side. Learn how to play then complain ..

moved the post ^ in right section

[hexed sorrel]

doubt it

unless carno is skilled and stego is absolute wank ofc

[hollow canyon]

Not really, it's mainly about how good Carno is

Ask Dashark for the details, he pulls it off quite consistently

from what I've been hearing

although it might also depend on how large the sub is

[errant plinth]

clarified my balance suggestion since i remembered some carnivores are on carnivore diets, but still i feel like this would be a great system to encourage player hunting rather than hunting ai's that way the devs would feel more comfortably bumping ai numbers back up and perhaps nerfing their senses a bit so theyre a bit worse at hiding and not so ridiculous to try and find, because well true you could subsist off ai running around like a neurotic with the munchies, or you could just get a good player kill of a healthy player.

[floral nebula]

who cares it was a satire, stego's have 2 much hp

[warm fox]

I think you need to read my message a little better. Some people struggle to see and I doubt you're one of those people.

[hexed sorrel]

oh lol I thought you meant full grown

[hollow canyon]

oh no, no, no, the talk was about subadults

[hexed sorrel]

oh yeah then that would be a LOT more believable

[hollow canyon]

Although... I think I did see someone in Isle discussion get soloed by Dashark while playing full adult Stego

admittedly the person did admit that they didn't play Stego at all so

and I just vaguely recall seeing a video of that happening

but yea no, the talk was about how many Carnos it takes to kill a subadult Stego

I believe a fresh subadult Stego can be killed by a Carno 1v1 without that much trouble

it's a fight that's not impossible to win even if Stego has the advantage

the larger it gets the harder it gets for Carno at an exponential rate but it should still be more or less possible

[hallow spire]

@scarlet hollow yes it should

[opaque beacon]

@scarlet hollow Carno weighs 1.8 tons, Deino weighs 8 tons, thats all to be said

[keen plover]

I do think deinos ability does suck since crocodilian gameplay is OP, but it is what it is. There are ways to avoid it easily though

[fresh laurel]

I hope the devs find a good way to make Deino not just become unviable the moment land dinos get access to the smallest pond or lake :P

[dusky surge]

droughts

and floods

[fresh laurel]

droughts would bother deino more ngl

[dusky surge]

the water will be constantly moving. You'll eventually find a drinking spot with something unfavourable inside

[dusky surge]

it also limits the space many animals have to drink

[fresh laurel]

I can see it now... a group of dinosaurs guarding a pond from anything

[dusky surge]

animals will be forced to move to whatever water they can find

so yes, deino has less habitable space, but other animals must find whatever water they can during this difficult time

[fresh laurel]

you ever think they could add finishing a water source if you drink too much from it? If rain comes

[dusky surge]

potentially, but only for limited and isolated water imho

if it has running water, it shouldn't run out unless via weather

[fresh laurel]

Insert Brachi herd

[dusky surge]

isnt that before U5 dropped?

[keen plover]

yes

and they're muted 💀

[fresh laurel]

that was a while back man ngl

[half girder]

i know

actually, true

[keen plover]

Thoughts on making crouch walk quieter? Feels a bit too loud. Imo it should almost be dead silent.

Like carno has a stomp to it that things can notice if you try to get close and ambush idk

[half girder]

yeah for sure

teno getting a crouch when?

[keen plover]

That would be dope ngl

Something for quadrupeds to hide their footprints

Maybe up to a certain size?

[half girder]

for stego sure

[keen plover]

imo, they wouldn't even need animations

Lets say z walking hides footprints

[half girder]

that works

but isnt crouch faster?

[keen plover]

Ah

idk maybe?

Crouch is still slow

[half girder]

https://imgur.com/a/socgQyb new deino buff crazy

[keen plover]

what am I looking at

[half girder]

all those kicks not registering

[keen plover]

Ah

[half girder]

open link for audio

[keen plover]

Yeah that's a classic in this game

[keen plover]

aight

lmao

[half girder]

also, why is it hard to head fracture a carno now, i hit them in the head with a running reared up headbutt, they shake thier head but no fracture

i had to do it 4 times for it to fracture

last time i played

[keen plover]

Icl, haven't played pachy since the ST

Wouldn't know if it's good or not.

Although from what I could tell from the last bit of the ST, it was pretty bad

[dusky surge]

@opaque beacon @alpine plover @agile mountain @proper coral idk how to tell you guys this but FPS isn't a balance issue

[opaque beacon]

it is

[dusky surge]

it literally isnt

[opaque beacon]

think about it

[dusky surge]

i have, and still, it's not a balance issue

[opaque beacon]

with more fps, It can be balanced because i can see the stego swing its tail

[dusky surge]

there's no patchnotes saying "buffed framerate" and "nerfed framerate"

[dusky surge]

that's a dumb argument and you know it

FPS is purely mechanical

nothing to do with the in-game balance

[opaque beacon]

Its a big problem dude

[dusky surge]

cool

i'm aware

its still not a balance issue

[opaque beacon]

Your game isnt optimized, its not balanced

All this balencing wont make a difference if the game is unplayable lmao

https://tenor.com/view/big-brain-big-brain-pewdiepie-pewdiepie-big-brain-gif-15261893

[dusky surge]

a game can be well balanced and still run like ass

a game can also run really well and be fucking dogshit with balancing

[opaque beacon]

its like racing a porche 911 with a kids toy car

[dusky surge]

not really no

[opaque beacon]

60 fps and 10 fps is difference my guy

[dusky surge]

if everyone has FPS issues, it's like racing a kids toy car with bad connection against another kids toy car with bad connection

[hexed sorrel]

wait did someone say fps is a balance issue?

[dusky surge]

4 fucking people did, yes

[opaque beacon]

y u so mad

[dusky surge]

im not

[hexed sorrel]

prolly all friends

[dusky surge]

im just baffled

[opaque beacon]

relax dude, its just a dino game

[hexed sorrel]

its an optimization issue, not a balance issue

[dusky surge]

i am relaxed

im literally lying in bed idk how much more relaxed i can be

[hexed sorrel]

see, this is the prime example of someone who doesn't know what to say and pulls this up. honestly just disappointing

[opaque beacon]

idk them lol i just said it cuz its funny people still have fps issues this far into development

[dusky surge]

its not that far into dev

at least, compared to legacy

[hexed sorrel]

still not balance, probably going to be deleted

[opaque beacon]

Ok than why are you mad lol

[hexed sorrel]

im literally just talking

lmao

[opaque beacon]

im clearly trolling both of you and the 3 kids that agreed with me

if they want it removed than it will be removed lol, no need to ping me

[hexed sorrel]

😐

[dusky surge]

"im clearly trolling"

the catchphrase of people who don't have an argument to make after saying stupid shit

[opaque beacon]

bro its 4am, I literarly dont give a shit if i look stupid or not, im not even arguing at this point lol

but still it kinda is a balance issue 😴

[dusky surge]

(still not a balance issue tho)

you don't get a game designer to increase performance

[opaque beacon]

maybe you do xddd

still if you can actually see a carno running at you maybe it would be a little harder to die dont you think?

[dusky surge]

no you don't, I worked as a game designer, my job has nothing to do with FPS, you're just wrong lmao

[opaque beacon]

Way to shout yourself out, so cool, game design is fun

[dusky surge]

what

[opaque beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/the-more-you-know-gif-10358303

[dusky surge]

why are you mad that i had a game design job wtf

[opaque beacon]

no lol

[dusky surge]

i'm using experience as backings for my argument

[opaque beacon]

why would i be mad xd

im not arguing lol

[dusky surge]

(and yet here you still are)

[opaque beacon]

ive stated my point your wasting your time

[dusky surge]

i mean, i am right tho

[opaque beacon]

yeah just chattin w u till i sleep xd

Aye man if you dont believe fixing that fps aint gonna balance them frames it kinda sound like a u problem

[dusky surge]

fixing FPS is good but it's not going to help the balance

[opaque beacon]

that channel aint just about balencing dinos ma boi

[dusky surge]

its about all balance (so not FPS)

because FPS has nothing to do with balance

[opaque beacon]

it does.. it balances your game

[hollow canyon]

not really true

[dusky surge]

it literally fucking doesn't balance the game

[opaque beacon]

yes it does in a way lmao

[hollow canyon]

Evrima is getting very close to the point where Legacy was abandoned development-wise

[dusky surge]

a game can be 10FPS and have good balance or 60FPS with bad balance

[opaque beacon]

except 60 fps you actually get to see whats happening lol

i thinks thats a lil more fair

dont yoy think xd

[hollow canyon]

Well I think Wavepoole's point is that if everyone has bad fps then it has no effect on the balance but tbh I think that bad fps might affect smaller animals that are prone to getting oneshot more

still not really a balance-issue

you guys should post that in general feedback not in balance feedback

[dusky surge]

exactly

[hollow canyon]

not that this kind of feedback is even particularly useful

[opaque beacon]

balance my fps

[hollow canyon]

the devs are aware their game works like a dumpsterfire rolling down a hill, I'm pretty sure

[opaque beacon]

make it steady 👀👀🤓

[hollow canyon]

they are working on fixing that but well

seems like it's taking time

[dusky surge]

Optimisation is fucking tough lmao

[opaque beacon]

well good then my points deliverd 😩😴

[hollow canyon]

I personally don't expect it to work well before update 9 rolls out

[dusky surge]

what the fuck even was your point because i dont think it delivered

[hollow canyon]

and have serious doubts whether it will work well when that happens too

[opaque beacon]

That the preformance needs to be fixed aka what he just said

[opaque beacon]

🤞

[hollow canyon]

yea well, the intention is for this game to work decently well on a GTX1070 last I've heard

that's the minimum requirement

[opaque beacon]

What is the point of balancing?

to make it fair right?

[dusky surge]

In the form of matchups, yes. Mechanically? No

[opaque beacon]

where did it say that

[dusky surge]

Its not fair to be running a game on a fucking potato vs a ten thousand dollar gaming computer. It's not the devs jobs to make your computer better

And thus, its not balance

[opaque beacon]

Thats not what am saying

[dusky surge]

(it kinda is)

[opaque beacon]

Im saying if i have a 1000$ computer and getting 20 frames that shouldnt be right lol

[dusky surge]

resolution options aren't fair as with a bigger monitor i can see clearer further away due to resolution. Devs should account for this and force everyone on lowest resolution (clear balance issue)

[opaque beacon]

again thats not what im saying lol

[dusky surge]

its the same strain of logic

[opaque beacon]

if you have a trash setup and getting bad frames thats on you bud

[dusky surge]

but that's an FPS issue

and thus a balance issue

[opaque beacon]

but if you know your pc is capable and it shows that in other games except isle thats a problem

[dusky surge]

it IS a problem (not a balance problem but a problem)

[opaque beacon]

lol your so eager to just prove me wrong

why are you so eager xdd

[hollow canyon]

cause it's not right... but it still isn't a balance issue, it's a general issue with performance

[dusky surge]

why are you still awake at 4am arguing the dumbest point in history

[opaque beacon]

Cuz it lowkey helps me fall asleep

thank u for suppirting my wonderful sleep schedual

[dusky surge]

turning off computers is infinitely better for sleep lmao

you're just fucking up your sleep cycle arguing a point that has already been proven wrong

[opaque beacon]

EXCEPT THERES MY PHONE 😭

[dusky surge]

turn off your phone then

[opaque beacon]

i cant

Its on 14%

i thought i could run it to 0% with this arguemntish chat

but my plan has been failed miserably

LMAO THERES MOREEEEEE

[dusky surge]

why are these people so legitimately dumb lmao

[opaque beacon]

they have fallen into this endless cycle of argumentation

https://tenor.com/view/megamind-trapped-trap-funny-villain-gif-4559766

[remote bane]

I don’t think this is a balance issue either but yeah, FPS drops are icky, I’m tired of lagging into stego tails lmao.