balance-feedback-discussion

[alpine plover]

You see a pack of Utahs around a Teno, they aren't really hunting it

They're desperately combating it

[ripe furnace]

Why’d you tell me the first part

I feel like it only takes 2 accurate Utah’s to kill a teno

I don’t think the would reall pounce it tho

[alpine plover]

Depends, if you two are good players

[ripe furnace]

Just hold onto it like lions

[alpine plover]

On average, even a pack struggles against one

[ripe furnace]

I mean with the remodel

Since it’s significantly bigger

Just make current Utah into a hullo store problem solved

[alpine plover]

I don't think a remodel is feasible

accurate Utah will most likely have a new set of abilities.. and it will probably rely on ambushing it's prey more instead of running after it like current inaccurate Utah does, since real-life Utah was much slower

[ripe furnace]

Why

[ripe furnace]

What new set

What more can Utah do

[alpine plover]

bear in mind, the current Utah we have is basically a representation of Jurassic Park's velociraptor.. because the game is pretty inspired by those movies

real-life Utah is nothing like the one we currently have in game. It's much slower, it's more stocky which means it will have higher health than current one, pretty nice resistances and it will probably have a higher bite force as well

I don't exactly know what kind of abilities it could have, but real-life Utah relied on ambushing it's prey more rather than just chasing after it.. because as I said, it's slower.. and quite weighty, so it might tire out faster

[alpine plover]

The current Utah isn't the accurate Utah, sure you could rename it as the more fiction appearance for what it is
But then that have to recreate another new animal and fit it into an already bloated ecosystem

[alpine plover]

exactly

[ripe furnace]

You’re telling me things I already know

[ripe furnace]

Make a remodel and change name then?

[alpine plover]

then you would understand that the abilities we have for the current Utah in game would not work for it

[alpine plover]

yep, that's pretty much what's going to happen. Utahraptor will have it's own model and it's own set of abilities and it will resemble the real-life one, whilst the Utahraptor that we have in game right now will eventually have a different name (we don't know what it's going to be)

[ripe furnace]

Yes I already know that

[alpine plover]

I don't understand what your question is then XD

[alpine plover]

Precisely

Though fitting an accurate Utah would be hard

Cera's got the small brawler things going on

It'd struggle to find a niche for it

definitely going to be interesting seeing accurate Utah in the isle

can't wait

[dusky surge]

cant wait to kill it with the fake utah

[alpine plover]

accurate Utah best Ootah, heh

[dusky surge]

accurate utah probably going to get fucking destroyed tbh lmao

its not designed for an ecosystem like the Isle's

[alpine plover]

Cera and Allo come to mind for rocking it's shit

[dusky surge]

carno dude

carno can knock it over, carno can outrun it, it isn't fast or as agile as its fictional cousin, etc

[alpine plover]

It's hard countered

I had this idea for awhile

What do you guys think of terrain advantages?

[dusky surge]

lots of people want it specifically because magy exists lmao

[alpine plover]

Ofc

But on a serious note

Given that hoofs, paws, nails, and feet do play a part in actual ecological advantage

For example, something like a Teno's wider quad balance give it an edge in muddy or swampy terrain

Really, I'd just like an expansion of movement systems

Other than the basic turn, sprint, accelerate, drift

It could help in the long run instead of making one animal play terrible to compensate for another

Carno would be an example

Could you expand a bit in that regard? So I can see what you mean more clearly

[ripe furnace]

Accurate Utah is still strong as hell might aswell make it’s pounce more effective

[dusky surge]

"accurate utah"
"pounce"

[ripe furnace]

You have a point

[ripe furnace]

Carno is still only a few feet taller though maybe it could fare pretty well

[dusky surge]

its also like, over twice a utah's weight

utahs were estimated at a very high maximum of 1000kg, which is only a bit over half the weight of a carno

[alpine plover]

A wolf is only a few feet taller than a coyote

They're far from equal footing

Granted

This is a sci fi dinosaur game

So off rip arguments of realism are invalid mostly

[ripe furnace]

That’s not the same because those occupy the same niche and body structure

[alpine plover]

??

A coyote occupies a wolf's niche?

[ripe furnace]

What would you give it for viability then

Climbing?

[dusky surge]

idfk, i just wouldn't add it lmao

[ripe furnace]

If there’s enough

[alpine plover]

Not really no

[dusky surge]

unrealistic utah looks better suited for climbing lmao

[ripe furnace]

Solo they’re the same animal

[dusky surge]

fake utah is faster, a better jumper, more agile, etc

[ripe furnace]

Unrealistic Utah looks kind of odd to me

I think it’s the arms

[alpine plover]

Wolves pack hunt and bring down ridiculously sized animals competently

Coyotes are generalist opportunists

[ripe furnace]

But alone they are the same exact animal

Just a dog at the end of the day

[alpine plover]

Bruh

[ripe furnace]

A good dog tho

[dusky surge]

why the fuck are we talking about wolves and coyotes

[alpine plover]

That's like saying a black and grizzly bear are the same animal if they both hibernate

[ripe furnace]

It’s in relation to your carno Utah comparison

He compared it to a wolf and a coyote but I said they don’t correlate

[ripe furnace]

They really aren’t that different

[sinful cove]

not a valid comparison anyway. comparing two canids to the pairing of a dromeosaur and an abelisaur

[ripe furnace]

That’s what I said

[sinful cove]

would be more comparable if it was comparing two dromeosaurs

but its like comparing dolphins to tuna

[alpine plover]

Aight then, a Velo and a Deinonychus

[ripe furnace]

Same thing

One a little bigger

[alpine plover]

They're only a few feet separate in height

[ripe furnace]

1 foot

[alpine plover]

But clear difference in power

[sinful cove]

velo and deinonychus are also not a valid comparison to utah and carno's comparison

[ripe furnace]

Yeah

[sinful cove]

like what does velo and deinon have to do with this balance dilemma

[alpine plover]

We got side tracked hard

[sinful cove]

two dromeosaurs, vs a dromeosaur and an abelisaur, a totally different kind of theropod

[ripe furnace]

https://tenor.com/view/fresh-prince-we-will-smith-theres-no-we-shocked-gif-17214689

[alpine plover]

Anyways, a realistic Utah is hard countered by the current roster

[sinful cove]

basically

[ripe furnace]

2 of them can take a teno

[alpine plover]

You'd have to whip up some fiction to make it viable

Essentially troodon or Dilo level

[ripe furnace]

One can take a pachy

[ripe furnace]

That’s a complete lie

[sinful cove]

i assume what they meant by realistic utah, is more appearaancewise and not paleo accurate niche and function

[alpine plover]

paleo accurate Utah they're arguing

[ripe furnace]

It’s damage would be siginificantly more but still might be carno fodder

[dusky surge]

paleo-accurate utah would get fucking shitstomped

im sorry to utah fans but like

[ripe furnace]

Still beats everything other than deino and stego

And carno

[alpine plover]

?

[dusky surge]

in what fucking universe

[sinful cove]

it would probably be a slower brawler, basically a bit smaller cera that can probably pin. it would get dunked hard by carno especially if carno keeps its current figure skater level agility

[dusky surge]

motherfucker fake utah could probably shred real utah with the insane bleed lmao

[ripe furnace]

Every bit gangster until the Utah is slightly above average size

[mental roost]

Cool animal....but not really viable to put into the game outside of maybe cosmetic. I'd love to see an actual Utah but I'd fine with waiting till more important things come in first..I guess..

[alpine plover]

Yeah, it's still getting stomped

[dusky surge]

its still getting fucked lmao

[ripe furnace]

Hell no

[dusky surge]

hell yes it is

[ripe furnace]

Not by anything under teno

[hollow canyon]

that's not a realistic estimate at all, Utahraptor was nowhere near that massive

[alpine plover]

Everything under teno can escape it

[mental roost]

Pretty sure the 2nd one is oversized.....Should be a good picture somewhere showing a skeletal of it next to a person and an up to date Dilophosaurus(but that's paleotalk stuff)

[sinful cove]

it cant climb without looking stupid, it cant un as fast without looking stupid, it cant glide, it cant raid burrows, it doesnt look like a decent swimmer

[ripe furnace]

Ik mostly just the first image

[dusky surge]

i know, which is why i specified "very high"

1000 is absurd for the animal

[hollow canyon]

Idk where that estimate even came from but it's about as sensible as 20t Spinosaurus

[ripe furnace]

Tell me what it loses to and why

[dusky surge]

it was lowest estimated at 300kg

[hollow canyon]

or 15t Giga

lowest estimate was 270kg iirc

[wise obsidian]

Mrblunt tends to have controversial opinions and he will stick to it like a spoon on frozen butter, i wouldnt recommend arguing

[ripe furnace]

Oh no differing opinion with discussion

[alpine plover]

Allo/Carno invalidate it's existance
It's "prey" would be much too fast for it

[sinful cove]

carno rams it over, realism utah has no realistic means of defense to deter the carno. even pachy who has apparent means of defense gets dunked on hard by carno rn

[hollow canyon]

Also - irl Utah could actually jump pretty well last I've heard

[sinful cove]

it just gets outright outbrawled by carno

[dusky surge]

from the current roster?
teno
pachy
deino
stego
carno
two fictional utahs probably

it wins against
non-combat animals
AI

[ripe furnace]

I said other than carno

[sinful cove]

yeah but carno is one big bleeding hole in its viability

[hollow canyon]

and yea irl Utah wouldn't be having a good time against most animals in the game tbh

[ripe furnace]

Why would it lose to pachy and teno

[dusky surge]

true facts lmao

[sinful cove]

we dont know how fast things like albert will be

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto would just murder it, so would Carno

[dusky surge]

Teno can tail-slam and knock it down into oblivion

[alpine plover]

If Pachy can fuck a Carno over, It can absolutely do so to Utah

[ripe furnace]

It loses to teno but what about 2 of em

[sinful cove]

would baryonix wreck real utah

[dusky surge]

Pachy can fracture, stun and repeat. Realistic utah isn't fast enough to stop it

[mental roost]

Plus it being less agile and slower than the JP wannabe we have.

[hollow canyon]

they'd still die

[ripe furnace]

Realistic Utah isn’t exactly slow

For who

[alpine plover]

Sure, but not fast enough in this roster

[hollow canyon]

it probably wouldn't be too fast, it has short limbs, it's a stocky animal

it's nowhere near as fast as some of its relatives

[sinful cove]

it would probably be around pachy speed

[ripe furnace]

Still fast enough to dodge a pachy

No way it’s pachy fodder if anything it’s 50/50

[alpine plover]

Not really, you'd need fake Utah's agility to be a surefire matchup

[hollow canyon]

I haven't really seen many estimates for it but from what I've heard it could run only around 30km/h

[sinful cove]

oof

[hollow canyon]

and tbh it sounds about right considering the anatomy of this animal

[mental roost]

Google is not a reliable source for speed estimates and weight.. Some of that stuff is older than my Grandparents and hasn't been touched(or updated) since great Cthulhu went to sleep.

[ripe furnace]

Substitutes a small amount of agility for raw power

[hollow canyon]

to be perfectly fair though - Carno is also faster than it would be in real life

[ripe furnace]

Do you want him to use bing

[sinful cove]

yeah but is raw power gonna save it from fracture lol

[hollow canyon]

irl Carno is a couple km/h to 10km/h slower than the one in the game

[dusky surge]

cant wait to fictionalise real utah so it can survive

[alpine plover]

That raw power is very small in this roster, considering that raw power is less than Carno's, who is the weakest mid tier

[ripe furnace]

Certainly helps with the matchup

[mental roost]

I've never used bing honestly.

[ripe furnace]

That is surprising

[sinful cove]

real utah is gonna get some stupid shit like its gonna shoot barbs at people or glide lmao

[dusky surge]

We can make utah taste bad

[alpine plover]

^

[mental roost]

^Magytahsaurus

[hollow canyon]

to be fair - Tenonto was heavily fictionalised already

[alpine plover]

True

[ripe furnace]

Real Utah defeats pachy if they give it a grab at the very least

[hollow canyon]

if Tenonto and magy can be made to survive then so can Utah

[sinful cove]

real utahs special ability is to disguise itself as a dead magyarosaurus

[ripe furnace]

2 of them kill a teno because it’s a good animal

[dusky surge]

Except unlike magy, realistic utah is said to be realistic, so it's in an even WORSE magy

[alpine plover]

Playing possum

[hollow canyon]

I don't see any reason why irl Utah would be unable to survive if Tenonto and Magy can be fictionalised to survive

[ripe furnace]

Since when was it be considered that Utah is a bad animal

[dusky surge]

Since magy gets the freedoms of fictionalisation

[ripe furnace]

What timeline am I in

[dusky surge]

IRL utah is forced to be IRL utah

[hollow canyon]

perhaps irl Utah will end up being twice larger too

[ripe furnace]

This is flashpoint

[alpine plover]

What kind of fiction should irl Utah be?

[sinful cove]

utah isnt a bad animal, but in this ecosystem it is

[alpine plover]

Ahem, Dilo

[dusky surge]

it isnt a bad animal. Just absolutely unsuited for an ecosystem like the isle

[hollow canyon]

You could make the same argument about Tenonto

[dusky surge]

Utah was an apex-level predator

[ripe furnace]

Even with an ability?

[dusky surge]

now its fucking tiny in comparison to its surroundings

[sinful cove]

what ability

[alpine plover]

Double jump

[ripe furnace]

Utah couldn’t jump that well but it could pounce in a forward motion seemingly

Not that it really would

[mental roost]

I AM THE SCOUT.

[sinful cove]

so its like an overweight version of our current raptors

[hollow canyon]

as I said - same goes for Tenonto which was fictionalised enough to be able to survive in this roster

[ripe furnace]

More health and damage yes

[sinful cove]

how will that save it from carno

[dusky surge]

which is good, but it was never ever described as "realistic tenonto". This is "realistic utah"

[ripe furnace]

It won’t

Jinx

[alpine plover]

Tbh, Cerato would be fodder too if it wasn't gonna be a miniature tank

[sinful cove]

so it is carno fodder

[ripe furnace]

Yes I already said that

[hollow canyon]

"Realistic Utah" means that it will have the anatomy of the irl Utahraptor, nobody said that it won't be larger than irl

[sinful cove]

so how do we fix that logically

[dusky surge]

you could make it a forest animal i guess?

[ripe furnace]

Because tenonto still resembles it’s irl counterpart to a high degree

[sinful cove]

what proposal is there to help utah defend itself from carno

[alpine plover]

Climbing?

[hollow canyon]

hell, if we're being this technical pretty much every animal smaller than Carno would be absolute food in this game aside from like... Galli maybe?

[mental roost]

If, and I mean I F you're willing to slightly fictionalize a more accurate Utah.. It could survive, rip. But keep it as CLOSE and true to the actual animal and you got a troubling situation..

[ripe furnace]

But nothing is in the forest so that’s kind of redundant

[sinful cove]

after a carno agility nerf and scent tracking nerf sure

[dusky surge]

for now, but irl utah aint coming for a while

[sinful cove]

forest is no problem for carno

[ripe furnace]

Nothing is coming for a while

[hollow canyon]

You're seriously exaggerating

[dusky surge]

tracking needs a touchup, agreed

[dusky surge]

what?

[sinful cove]

give utah gecko feet and it can run up vertical flat surfaces

[spare badger]

Oh my what have I walked into

[ripe furnace]

Update times

[dusky surge]

update 5 has been moving extremely steadily forward idk what you mean nothing is coming

[mental roost]

That's a terrifying image. Thanks I hate it but want to draw it.

[alpine plover]

Making irl Utah viable

[sinful cove]

rapter

[spare badger]

Forest animal or something

[dusky surge]

i get its funny to say "isle updates long" but update 4 was a special kind of shitshow

[ripe furnace]

How much plumage y’all want

[dusky surge]

updates prior to 4 were significantly faster

[spare badger]

Give it bad, realistic pounce lookin thing

[alpine plover]

Fluff, it can resist attacks

[ripe furnace]

Yeah but they’d been worked on for a while before that

[sinful cove]

utah's fluff is made from a special material that causes attackers to bounce off and be knocked over

[ripe furnace]

Pounce with arms too mebby

Maybe high blood resist 🥸

[spare badger]

The uhh
Pounce with toe claws and flap one
Only works on smalls

Make irl utah the bane of all smalls

[ripe furnace]

I mean grab stuff with it’s arms too

[alpine plover]

Carno already is the bane of all smalls

And can do it better

[spare badger]

But in the forest

[ripe furnace]

Agility

[sinful cove]

cant current jpraptor viably function as that already

[alpine plover]

That's so niche

[sinful cove]

what makes this slower raptor a bigger bane to smalls than our current utah

[spare badger]

Carno is the same but plains

[alpine plover]

You know what, Irl Utah sucks
You'd have to do some Dilo magic to make it work

[hollow canyon]

A little update, I'm not sure about the reliability of this but apparently irl Utah could reach 48km/h

[ripe furnace]

You’re stretching it

[alpine plover]

How

[sinful cove]

wish theyd ust do that tbh, fix the wrists on the current raptor and give feather option and call it a day

[ripe furnace]

Utah arm position what do u think

[spare badger]

Let irl utah climb

[ripe furnace]

No chicken arm pose?

[dusky surge]

eh, if its in the forest, an irl utah could easily predate on troodons, herreras out of trees, velos and other forest dwellers

[alpine plover]

It's so big tho

[ripe furnace]

Could it even do that

[dusky surge]

no lmao

[ripe furnace]

Too big for just those

[dusky surge]

no it isnt lmao

[ripe furnace]

I don’t think it could survive off them alone

[sinful cove]

meathooks

[mental roost]

Tiger Utah

[spare badger]

Not well

Like saurian climbing
Only works on big trees

[alpine plover]

Well... Utah is technically the Tiger of the Raptors

[sinful cove]

utah weighs as much as a grizzly it would look stupid climbing

[dusky surge]

carno can survive on utahs and pachys, an irl utah could def survive on troodons

[ripe furnace]

Utah ambush ability maybe

[dusky surge]

AMBUSH SPEED AHAHAHAHAHA

[ripe furnace]

Pachy is a large animal and so is Utah

[dusky surge]

And carno is much larger

[ripe furnace]

Troodon is just small dude

[ripe furnace]

That doesn’t make them not huge

Like one pachy a carno could eat for like a day or 2

[dusky surge]

You realise that smaller creatures don't need to eat as much as larger creatures

[fresh laurel]

poor jp ootah gonna have to comepete with irl ootah

[sinful cove]

let utahraptor pick up rocks and throw them at your face

[ripe furnace]

But Utah isn’t small

[fresh laurel]

let utah use a gun

[dusky surge]

Also you could simply make it that irl utah has a slower hunger drain

[alpine plover]

Nah jp Utah is clearly ahead of irl Utah

[sinful cove]

give utahraptor two katanas

[dusky surge]

utah is like, 300-700kg?

[ripe furnace]

It’s small in comparison to some theropods but it’s still huge

[mental roost]

UwuTah wins out unfortunately.

[dusky surge]

its not really that big

[ripe furnace]

It is

[dusky surge]

???

[fresh laurel]

irl ootah should have a pack limit of 4 imo

[ripe furnace]

In comparison to a troodon

[dusky surge]

it'd still be around small-tier given isle's current sizings

[ripe furnace]

I’m thinking just 2

[alpine plover]

Bruh

[ripe furnace]

Nah 3

[fresh laurel]

2 is too small even for its size

3 is still meh

[alpine plover]

You're just trying to doom irl Utah

[dusky surge]

troodon is like 40kg lmao

[ripe furnace]

Could it even catch them? And even then how much is a troodon worth in food value?

Not a lot

[fresh laurel]

thought troodon was waaay smaller lol

[ripe furnace]

Hawktah?

[sinful cove]

isnt troo like 1/10th of utah size

[alpine plover]

Tbh, Teno is too small to reliably fend off Carno's

I think there needs to be better mechanics to escape as herbivores

[ripe furnace]

Think guys think

[ripe furnace]

Fly?

[fresh laurel]

too hybrid looking

[ripe furnace]

How

[sinful cove]

cryolophosaurus crest looking mf

[alpine plover]

No, bob, weave, or drift

[fresh laurel]

just look at how its standing lmao

[ripe furnace]

Harpy tah

[ripe furnace]

Yes upright

[fresh laurel]

its arms...

[alpine plover]

I wanna break a Carno's ankles by crossing it up

[ripe furnace]

What about em

[ripe furnace]

U could

[fresh laurel]

its just weird proportions

[alpine plover]

I think only Galli is getting proper escape mechanics, I feel like it should be across the board

[ripe furnace]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-kaperoo-carnotaurus-gif-23590722

[fresh laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-gmod-the-isle-gmod-gif-25107400

[ripe furnace]

Harpy eagle was my favorite animal until very recently

[fresh laurel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401481371249541120/931024927560183898/RealisticUtahraptortheIsle.png

[ripe furnace]

Remains my top 3 because I’m indecisive

[fresh laurel]

goodbye ootah...

[ripe furnace]

No ew

[fresh laurel]

no yes

[ripe furnace]

Make flashy or kill it

[fresh laurel]

flashy?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/860601672140062730/image0.webp

gg

how will you skin that exactly?

also buff up ptera body a bit?

seems skinner than its irl self

ngl

[ripe furnace]

Gross

[fresh laurel]

hope you know i mean not buff the stats...

I mean just a lil buffin

or feathers could help

feathered ptera doe...

[sinful cove]

mutton chop raptor

[fresh laurel]

wth....

[sinful cove]

lmao

[fresh laurel]

anyways tarbosaurus for the isle ayo
||joke||

[sinful cove]

the superior utahraptor design

[sinful cove]

bad

[fresh laurel]

why cant they add my funny smaller trex

[sinful cove]

why add tarbosaurus when we could add the super unique saurophaganax

[fresh laurel]

this utah looks pretty noice ngl

[fresh laurel]

nah broski we going torvosaurus

[sinful cove]

something about its tail throws me off

[fresh laurel]

ik

[sinful cove]

better yet, torosaurus, very unique

[fresh laurel]

gonna make its enemies be annoyed by looking at it

[hollow canyon]

as time went on this has become less and less of a meme

Tarbosaurus is really different from Rex at this point

[sinful cove]

cat tail for all the cat clan RPer utah mains

[fresh laurel]

how so...

[hollow canyon]

for starters it's half its size

not even half, less than half

Daspletosaurus might actually be larger than Tarbo

[sinful cove]

instantanious death

[fresh laurel]

NOSAHPSAGHOSA NOPLSS SPAPOSAGSA REMOVE THE TAIL THEN ANYTHING BUT UWUTAH DO NOT SUMMONN EM THE DEPTHS OF HELL AHHHH

[hollow canyon]

Tarbo's size varies between 3.8t and 4.5t iirc

[fresh laurel]

smaller rex

[sinful cove]

[hollow canyon]

it's not a smaller rex

it has different proportions

[fresh laurel]

tell that to the utah players who wanna start purring on you

[hollow canyon]

Tarbosaurus looks... rather comical tbh

[sinful cove]

uwutah waptowo

[hollow canyon]

I don't like this animal to be perfectly honest

it has quite absurd proportions

[fresh laurel]

uwutahwaptowo is a real genus...

[hollow canyon]

having an enormous head and tiny forelimbs

[sinful cove]

owo

[hollow canyon]

it takes what people consider to be a "tyrannosaur" to an extreme

[fresh laurel]

nanotyrannus for the isle cus yes

[fresh laurel]

so rex?

[sinful cove]

we already have fake genus troodon why not at this point

[fresh laurel]

nanotyrannus for the isle ayo

[hollow canyon]

no, Rex has much larger forelimbs and its head is nowhere near as comically large

[fresh laurel]

tarbo is rex going through puberty ayo

[sinful cove]

︠ʘw ︠ʘ

[hollow canyon]

it's really not

[fresh laurel]

uwutahraptowo

[hollow canyon]

the two are more distinct from one another than Carcha is from Giga

[sinful cove]

say please

ok

[hollow canyon]

or Sucho is from Bary tbh

[fresh laurel]

Pov. Acro is gonna somehow not become giga smaller brother

[sinful cove]

anyway we already have alberto and it looks stupid so we dont need stupid small rex #2

[fresh laurel]

so gojirasaurus for the isle ayo?

[sinful cove]

gojirasaurus mono skin

[hollow canyon]

also cancel what I said - its estimates go between 3.8t and 5.1t

[alpine plover]

this is turning into the isle discussion

[sinful cove]

what was the original topic again

[fresh laurel]

godzilla for spino skin ayo?

[alpine plover]

Teno nerfs

[fresh laurel]

uwutahraptowo

[hollow canyon]

balance and how irl Utah is going to fare in the game

[sinful cove]

wait really

was the topic on how to nerf tenonto even more

[hollow canyon]

I think it's going to be fine

[alpine plover]

Yes

[sinful cove]

wtf lol

[fresh laurel]

no

IT WAS IRL UTAH

[sinful cove]

oh yeah

[fresh laurel]

scroll up people it aint hard lmao

[alpine plover]

You lie

[sinful cove]

irl utah is gonna get dunked on

[hollow canyon]

I really don't think so

[fresh laurel]

it wont just gib it good nv and uhhhhh make brawler ggez

[hollow canyon]

if animals like Cerato, Tenonto, Magy and Acro can be viable I see no reason why irl Utah shouldn't be

[fresh laurel]

i think would be cool if apolloraptor was great at latching onto dinosaurs while irl utah is godly at pinning dinosaurs

[sinful cove]

yeah but utah just sounds like cerato already has the small tier brawler role taken

[hollow canyon]

Yea but they could do it differently

[fresh laurel]

so many better utah designs...

[alpine plover]

Ehhh

[sinful cove]

and how is he gonna deal with carno unless carno gets nerfs

[fresh laurel]

anyone?

[alpine plover]

You could make it viable that way but there'd be direct overlap

[sinful cove]

because forests are no problemo for carno rn

[hollow canyon]

idk about that

I found handling Carno much easier in the woods

than when I was fighting them out in the open

[alpine plover]

I solo'd Carno twice in the woods as Utah

[sinful cove]

its gonna be in like 10 years anyway carno will probably have gotten buffed and nerfed 600 times between now and then

[fresh laurel]

so uh what if we made irl utah and apolloraptor have a dynamic?

[hollow canyon]

it can't charge, its movements are limited and at least as Tenonto I had an easier time landing CC on it

in my last Tenonto vs Carno fight on Tenonto's side I was actually kind of losing until I took the fight to the forest where I just murdered the Carno I was fighting

[fresh laurel]

oi guys make irl utah become a stage apolloraptor can spec into

[fresh laurel]

at some point when apexes come wouldnt that mean utah buffs ayo?

[hollow canyon]

I think it would be neat if Tenonto could scale logs with its jump

[alpine plover]

I was like a phantom in the deep woods
Didn't let myself get bit
Got pounces on the Carno
dipped and re-engaged repeatedly
The blood and tracking system let me hone in on it through the bushes

[hollow canyon]

it would give it more of an edge over Carno in the woods

[sinful cove]

they shouwho knows, didnt dondi say he didnt want utah hunting things like rex anyway

[alpine plover]

Did it until they dropped

[fresh laurel]

if utahs have trouble bleeding out stego i would hate to see utahs bleed a giga out

[sinful cove]

so i dont think utah would be buffed in consideration of apexes

[hollow canyon]

that's actually pretty impressive

[hollow canyon]

might actually be easier, Stego is a very specific animal that has very good control over its flanks

most other apexes will probably have a harder time landing a hit on a Utah that pounces them and disengages the pounce

[spare badger]

I fought a Utah in a forest as teno
I slammed it in the head and it proceeded to land 1 pixel out of range so it left

[fresh laurel]

what stops something like trike turning around to protect its flank?

[alpine plover]

It's kind of hard now because of latency and bugs,etc
But no matter how hard they keep nerfing Utah, I keep getting back on my bullshit

[fresh laurel]

at the same time you can pounce stego from the front as utah

[hollow canyon]

it can turn, sure but that takes time

Stego doesn't even have to turn

it just whacks that side with its tail and the Utah dies

[alpine plover]

They can never stop me solo'ing bigger creatures

[fresh laurel]

ayo dismount iframes oh no....

im kinda scared on how dismount will do for utah longer fall after pounce lets say... spino

bigger = longer fall time

[spare badger]

Just latch lower

[alpine plover]

Silly

[fresh laurel]

pov. pouncing leg makes you teleport to the rib

[spare badger]

Make the latch points the leg ez

[fresh laurel]

am i the only one who preferred legacy pounce?

you know choosing to attack or not...

[spare badger]

Utah latch in legacy was before my time

[fresh laurel]

https://youtu.be/vDcyVIiDkO4

hear the mouse spamming

also you could pounce while target is swimming lmao

aye it was actually fun tbh

turning a rex into a taxi and junk

also would a pounce revamp idea go into general feedback or balance feedback?

[spare badger]

General

[alpine plover]

@vale harness carno is ok, you could maybe revert the agility but decrease food drain, also pachy fracture is not nerfed, it just got it's ram hitbox fixed that was so broken it made fractures that didn't make sense, and also if carno needs to have bad turning when charging, pachy must keep the bad turning while ramming

Carno doesn't need nerfs, is the herbivores the ones that should be buffed

[ripe furnace]

Utah looks more accurate than current there

[ripe furnace]

Somewhat

[noble wave]

Carnos turn is too much at the moment so pachy can't turn enough to counter it

[old hull]

i keep seeing that ignorant shit about carno buffs being "fine" , carno only needed the tweaks to the charge , it still dominated everything except stego and gator before this patch , the only "problem" was carno mains hate having to actually be good at the game to succeed so lets just overbuff it to all hell so it can facetank everything

i played plently of the fucker and the only thing i ever struggled with was the overwhelming food demand on it , its stats were more then fine to deal with anything its supposed to

[wise sparrow]

Imagine getting ass ridden by a carno

Just alt swing the carno

[old hull]

nah man silly pebble didnt read the memo , your not allowed to fight back as pachy anymore thats way too cringe

[wise sparrow]

Seriously tho idk why the devs always buff 1 animal and nerf literally every single other 1

[old hull]

just die and cry about it like a reasonable person

duuuuh

[old hull]

right?! , community been asking for stego and deino to be brought down a bit so they can oh i dunno actually be even remotely threatened by the rest of the roster , meanwhile the devs are like oh nerf bird you say? okaaaay

i expect the next update to add a mechanic where if a bird gets too close to another dino while its calling it should just die from the soundwaves breaking its bones lol

afterall its current version is clearly way too overpowered

[mild basin]

Carno is fiiiine

Totally balanced cant u see?

[spare badger]

[mint rain]

In the good old days 3 Utah’s could easily kill a solo carno

[mild basin]

Yup i remember

[mint rain]

Like the carno DIED if two Utahs pounced it. Didn’t have to wait for it to bleed after you blow all your stamina

[dusky surge]

"good old days"

that doesn't sound very good to me

in fact, that sounds awful

[wise sparrow]

Yea 3 utahs shouldn't "easily" kill a carno. It should be possible. But not "easy"

[dusky surge]

back in those days, 4 utahs could quickly dispatch a stego

as in, 4 utahs pouncing at once KILLED THE STEGO BEFORE THE POUNCE ENDED LMAO

[wintry mountain]

The good old days didn't have bleed.

Utah is meant to be using bleed

Its been Reworked in order to fit that desired use

[dusky surge]

^

[wintry mountain]

Hell even if it bucks, two pounces will basically kill a carno as long as it stays moving

[dusky surge]

yep, but people want to melt carnos rather than attack then let them kill themselves

i find killing with bleed really fun personally, requires a completely different approach to combat

[old hull]

well you can pick utah and have the high bleed and be a glass cannon that cant make a mistake without being killed or get so injured that you aint fighting anymore... or for just a few extra minutes of growth you pick the unstopable freight train and just facetank everything to death

i wonder which one the community would pick

its ok tho its perfectly balanced

[noble wave]

So true, its not balanced at the moment

[hollow canyon]

"facetank" everything to death lol

and no, Tenonto wasn't balanced on the previous patch where it could 1v2 or even 1v3 Carnos

if you let a Carno facetank you to death you should perhaps choose a different animal, idk play Stego or Deino cause Tenonto sure as hell isn't getting facetanked atm lest it's hot garbage

[old hull]

yes because carno can die to teno that must mean it is not overpowered anyway

ive managed to kill adult carnos alone as a pachy too , the buffs are still stupid and need to go

[hollow canyon]

Then idk what you're talking about if you're killing Carnos with a Pachy

A Tenonto that plays the animal correctly instead of mindlessly spamming tailslam as all the Tenontos did for the longest time can take on a Carno just fine

I'm not going to comment on Utah since I haven't played this animal this patch yet, however all the comments about update 2 Utah vs Carno are just laughable since update 2 Carno was actually an absurdly overpowered animal that could take on an entire pack with ease

[calm ibex]

kick should be removed so tenos wont get baited into using wrong attacks

[hollow canyon]

much better turn rate, unending stamina, no stamina drain on the charge, much higher biteforce

[spare badger]

A teno can only be facetanked if the hitboxes don't register
Which doesn't happen too often

[calm ibex]

its dumb to balance animal all over again around different ability when those numbers cant even be found from anywhere else other than joining official discord or steam patch notes, and even then are not accurate numbers

[old hull]

so teno spamming tailslams is dumb but carno being able to ignore its charge and just left click everything to death with little to no consequence is ok

sure teno and pachy can still deal with a carno but if the players are equal skill the odds are by far in the carnos favor , its moves are easier to perform , if you miss you lose nothing while the tenos and pachy leave themselves vulnerable and lose a ton of stamina , and if that wasnt bad enough carno has the get out of jail free card at any time due to its speed

that goddamn thing doesnt need to be such a good brawler , save that shit for cera , it has the best speed its bullshit for it to curbstomp everything so easily

it was more then fine in the previous patch , even when they were outnumbered 3 to 1 by pachies or tenos you could still kill all of them or just run whenever the hell you wanted

[elder steppe]

I do understand what your saying, but carnos are not tanking those hits, i play carno and i can tell you that the tailslam can still mess me up. I dont get anywhere near it. The reason it still uses stam after a missed hit though, makes senses, your still hitting. The ram for carno, if it misses, it just uses the stamina from running faster, dont remember if hitting something with ram used more stam. But from the patch notes, the carno didnt get a stam buff, it didnt get a damage buff, it got a slight turn and acceleration buff. Unless im missing something, other than those things the carno is pretty much the same as before patch. I havent played teno since the new update, so i cant say anything about it. Dont think i have full grown a pachy post update either. But i think the carno is fine he just has slightly better turn and better acceleration. So unless im missing something in the patch notes, carno hasnt really changed

[old hull]

versus teno their new turn is almost unnoticable but vs the utah and pachy their better turn robs them of valuable openings

carno vs utahs was already super onesided , these buffs just made it almost impossible for utah to even attempt it

and pachys new shit turning while winding up a charge have made it just fodder for carno , you can dance around a pachy

[elder steppe]

I dont know, i have played utah this update and i can still escape and juke carnos like before. So i cant really agree with you on that. Havent fought carno as a pachy yet, so i will take your word for it

[old hull]

plus why does carno have to turn well , its entire purpose is to be fast sprinter , carno being able to turn well is like giving t-rex the ability to swim well , its just wrong

[elder steppe]

On patch note the turn buff is only for walking so i dont know what to tell you

[old hull]

sure on paper it doesnt seem like much , but it matters

its not all just about health and dmg

hell the pachy and carno match up proves that , neither of them got damage tweaks and yet carno curbstomps pachy now unless the pachy is extremely lucky

[elder steppe]

But carnos are not walking at them, the buff “ on paper” shouldnt affect running

[hollow canyon]

Pachy is hot garbage atm, it needs buffs badly

Tenonto however is fine, might need a small QoL adjustment

in the form of a lower stam cost

specifically on the tailslam since its damage was lowered

it's not like you're supposed to be spamming tailslam though

this attack is only used to set your opponent up for the kicks

that dish out the real damage

if you're using tailslam to deal damage you're literally playing the animal wrong

which is what the vast majority of Tenontos seem to do

as for Pachy it needs a better turn rate on ram, idk why that was nerfed of all things about it, it could also use some fix to how fractures register

[spare badger]

Either lower stam cost so I can use it as a proper utility move
Or buff stam Regen. Both will work

[hollow canyon]

I think the stam cost has to be lowered anyways, wouldn't mind a buff to stam regen though

[spare badger]

Many still think slam is the damage dealer

[hollow canyon]

it would be a nice addition

well yea, they are just wrong and play the animal wrong

[spare badger]

Stam Regen would help it escape carno better
If it does I will say that teno doesn't need a 60/40 MU anymore

Closer to 55/45 if stam regen is improved imo

But that's 'if'

Pachy is the animal that needs real help rn

[hollow canyon]

the main difference between how this match up worked before the patch and now is that Pachy's turn rate got gutted while it uses ram, as well as the fact that Carno has the CC immunity after you once apply it so you can't just CC it indefinitely

[spare badger]

Cut the stun immunity in half

5 seconds is high enough

[hollow canyon]

every CC in the game had a "cooldown" so that you couldn't CC your opponent indefinitely, Pachy was an exception to that

[spare badger]

10 seconds is rediculous

[hollow canyon]

it could CC its opponents however long it wanted to

[spare badger]

That was dumb
But as always they overcompensated

[hollow canyon]

yea, idk if it's 10 seconds but if it's 10 seconds then that's way too long, Tenonto has it at like 5 I think

[spare badger]

Something like that

And stuns no longer work on tails too

[elder steppe]

I didnt even know ther was a cc immunity thing. Huh

[hollow canyon]

Yea, it's been introduced back in update 2 when Tenonto was given crowd control on its tailslam and kick

[spare badger]

It was not noticeable before since a carno wouldn't re-engage a teno immediately

[elder steppe]

Oh, yeah i would say 3-5 seconds then

[hollow canyon]

you could initially permanently CC your opponent so what the devs did was introduce a short cooldown during which an animal can't be CCed after being CCed once

[spare badger]

It's about that for teno
But pachy has 10 seconds so it's really abusable

Especially since fractures aren't garunteed

And carno can run decently well with a leg fracture
You need leg and body fractures to escape now

[hollow canyon]

Leg fracture is definitely enough, you don't need a body fracture

the issue is getting that leg fracture

[spare badger]

Carno can move weirdly fast with leg fracture

[wise sparrow]

Carno's leg frac trot is faster than pachys trot

Because balance

[spare badger]

I've heard people say carnos with leg fractures are faster than pachies

[hollow canyon]

Yea but that's more so because Pachy doesn't get to trot at all

its trot is pathetic idk why

I remember how all the animals in Evrima were supposed to have fast trots

so that running would be a thing you use only in combat

[spare badger]

Maybe pachy needs more stam so it actually run away

[hollow canyon]

but then for some reason the devs decided to make the trots not as fast for most animals and just pathetically slow for Pachy

[wise sparrow]

Pachy needs a functional trot first off all

[hollow canyon]

^

[spare badger]

That too

You shouldn't need to run place to place
One thing I like about teno

[hollow canyon]

I'm pretty sure it was given a long runtime mainly to make up for the fact that it trots so slowly

[spare badger]

All animals should have good trots imo

[elder steppe]

I mean carnos take longer steps

[wise sparrow]

Okay but is it balanced? Pachy already has to spend half it stam phasing through the carno and getting body fracture. And now it needs to ru- oh wait it cant now that its used all its stamina

[spare badger]

I mean carno also has a broken leg

[wise sparrow]

And the tracking system makes escape impossible

[spare badger]

Definitely should be slower

[spare badger]

It's way too good

[elder steppe]

True broken legs hurt

[spare badger]

Tracks should be half as common, mud should be on riverbanks and the direction slice should be bigger

[elder steppe]

Yeah or longer distance between visible steps. Its too close

[spare badger]

Tracking should be difficult

Not braindead easy like it is now
You should have to try

[hasty coyote]

I had this one fight that truly made me hate the balance of this game. I was drinking water on the edge of the forest as a pachy. A carno rams me outta nowhere, but misses its bites. I get up, break his ribs and skull and run into the forest with the rest of my stam. By the time my stam reached half, he found exactly where I was, with his ribs and skull still broken. I ran off and lived, but he was able to track me still, that far, with a broken skull

[spare badger]

Tracking is dumb

Give it to herbivores so the carno players know what it's like

[fresh laurel]

increase the pizza thingie size

gonna make it not as easy to find the next tracks

[fresh laurel]

oh no... would you really want a stego tracking you everywhere you go

[verbal iris]

Carno player hiding in fear while 12 juvenile tenontos track it

[fresh laurel]

Pov. you just found a mega herd and now its tracking your every step

[verbal iris]

To be fair with carnos new completely balanced agility it shouldn't be getting hit at all

[fresh laurel]

that moment when you think buffing carno turn radius for walking is fine until you remember carno can just run and walk turn

[hollow canyon]

unironically this ^

I'd love it if I could track people with herbivores

[spare badger]

Same

It was fun

At least let us track blood

So I can tag a carno with claw then hunt it though the woods

[hollow canyon]

@wise obsidian almost every single video like that shows Tenontos just playing... outright wrong

The guy keeps on spamming the tailslam for gods know what reason while Carno is literally sticking its face up his butt outright begging to get kicked to death

not only is that move just absurdly costly right now but it also deals much less damage and doesn't apply bleed

yet everybody relies on tailslamming things to death

[alpine plover]

So much this

[fresh laurel]

they still have have preupdate mentality

[hollow canyon]

I mean, it's literally a skill issue in this case, that Carno should be dead

it plays like hot garbage but it gets away with it because Tenonto is even worse

[fresh laurel]

i still think maybe they could nerf carno bite damage so it doesnt go spam biting everything and relies on ram to get kills

[fresh laurel]

one vid the carno almost died to slam so idk

think the slam were all headshots though

[hollow canyon]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some Carno that'd be bad enough to actually die to tailslams their damage wasn't lowered that much according to what the QA say but that'd be the very definition of a skill issue

[fresh laurel]

people keep saying slam is 180 for some reason but that video didnt say thats the case lol

[hollow canyon]

Carno's bite is already not that strong sitting at just 175N, I personally wouldn't mind lowering it down to some 160N if you ask me but that's not really the solution to the fact that people play Tenonto wrong

[fresh laurel]

i mean im willing to go into someone private server to test carno vs teno or teno slam dmg

[fresh laurel]

hard to balance a carnivore thats one of the fastest things in the whole game while still letting it be able to hunt

and teno is what a mid tier or semi?

[hollow canyon]

I've noticed but tbh, this isn't a Carno issue, Tenonto might need a little bit of an improvement but generally it's very much playable on the current update

Its viability is not a problem if you play it right

[fresh laurel]

teno needs another kick hitbox buff and tail slam stam reduction a bit to make up for its dmg nerf

[hollow canyon]

but everyone of these fights that gets posted here for some reason Tenontos try to take Carnos on out in the open, in the plains, without using their highest DPS skill

I mean it definitely needs a stam cost reduction on tail, it's just not fair to have the damage lowered and keep the stam cost the same

[wise obsidian]

Tenonto should not have to stick to a specific biome just to be remotely viable

[fresh laurel]

i like how all these proposed changes some ppl say are sometimes not aware of how other carnivores will kill said animal

[hollow canyon]

It's not "remotely" viable and yes it should stick to its biome, that's literally how the game is being designed

Tenonto is just viable

[fresh laurel]

poor utah cant go to forest to escape carno anymore...

[hollow canyon]

if you play it right

[fresh laurel]

anyways when are we getting more rocks

[hollow canyon]

I've been playing this animal by far the most on this update and it's perfectly ok as long as you adjust to the changes that have been made to it

would I mind it getting some buffs? Not at all, it could use some quality of life improvements but acting like this animal is not viable just based on people playing it the way they did for a long time is just wrong

[spare badger]

But does it have a MU advantage (like it should) or does it still need fine tuning?
Imo needs fine tuning with stam

[fresh laurel]

Mu?

[spare badger]

Matchup

[hollow canyon]

It could use some buffs as I said

[spare badger]

Sorry Smash Bros speak

[wise obsidian]

I mean, you cant deny its tail slam stam usage is horrendous, and the kick only hits half the time

[fresh laurel]

teno imho can beat carno fine if it plays more offensively

and smart

[hollow canyon]

I haven't had that issue with the kick, it registered every time I kicked it should've landed in my experience but I would personally increase the hitbox and change the animation a little bit

[fresh laurel]

not like in the videos where it slams the second carno gets a lil close causing stam waste

[hollow canyon]

making it have a slightly larger reach would be appreciated imo

the stam cost on the tailslam should 100% go down

it's incomprehensible to me that it hasn't

[fresh laurel]

when i was testing kick the legs went through a utah model and still didnt land

[spare badger]

Teno needs:
Kick hitbox increase (and animation change)
Less stam drain on stam
Better stam regen (optional but definitely useful)

[fresh laurel]

i think minus the stam regen since teno kinda has to play less spammy or else it will die in a drawn out fight

[alpine plover]

Honestly, Carno's delay between bites should be reduced.

The charge should be reworked to be given the playable a different type of ability, maybe a horn thrust that can knock down the playable.. and the alt-bite also should be changed.

Realistically, Carnotaurus could barely turn while sprinting, that's one thing it's Legacy counterpart did right. The thing couldn't turn for shit while sprinting. And it also realistically couldn't make sharp turns as other theropods did

So, pretty much the entirety of Carnotaurus at the moment doesn't really make sense, mechanics wise.

[hollow canyon]

what tailslam is for atm is for setting up the kicks from a long range, if Carno tries to maneuver around your kick attack socket you can use the tailslam for the CC to stop Carno in its tracks to then kick it

[spare badger]

I've been inside a carnos model and not hit it
It's weird, I hit a Utah with it the other day when it should have. It's oddly inconsistent

[fresh laurel]

I think it would be possible to make carno not really turn when running while keeping its walking to be average mobility

[alpine plover]

Sorry, not reduced, my bad. I meant to say increased

[spare badger]

I would revert carnos acceleration, maybe it's walking turn as well

[fresh laurel]

i found a bug where you can get stunned by teno slam but not take dmg

it happened once but it was weird...

[hollow canyon]

A couple of issues with this: for starters - decreaseing the delay between bites would mean that it would bite faster, Carno definitely doesn't need to bite faster. Secondly - giving it some additional attacks isn't going to happen. One of the QAs has spoken about this and those suggestions just aren't realistic because they'd require the devs to go back and animate additional attack, the animators are already busy as they are.

[fresh laurel]

i think walking is fine but running should barely let carno turn as if its trying to ram

[alpine plover]

That was a mistake on my part and I meant to say the delay between bites should be increased rather than reduced haha

[fresh laurel]

rn carno can pretty much duke you out in a forest fine which shouldnt be the case...

[spare badger]

The run wasn't changed
The walk let's it turn better when drifting it seems?

[hollow canyon]

Secondly - Carno turned badly while sprinting but it doesn't mean that it turned badly in general, Abelisaurs were not quite as agile as e.g. tyrannosaurs but they were still more agile than a lot of other groups of dinosaurs.

[fresh laurel]

it doesnt but I seen carnos just run and stop to walk and turn and start running again

causing better turning

[hollow canyon]

On the other hand Carno was nowhere near as fast as it's portrayed in the game

well, I might've exaggerated there

it was somewhat slower

based on the estimates that I'm familiar with Albertosaurus was only slightly slower than Carno

[fresh laurel]

well all isle dinosaurs are exaggerated to some degree

[spare badger]

Wasnt it like 40 something

[hollow canyon]

45km/h although I've heard it may have perhaps reached 50km/h

[spare badger]

48-56 according to google

[hollow canyon]

55km/h is pushing it above what it could do though, Galli would be much faster than it

45km/h is an estimate by Larramendi

[spare badger]

Seems to make sense

[hollow canyon]

There are also some raptors that would be faster than it as well

[fresh laurel]

hot take
revert utah agility changes
give dryo dodge iframes or something
make hypsi spit have aim assist

anyone?

[spare badger]

I mean

[fresh laurel]

the smalls need love too...

[hollow canyon]

Iframes are a no-no

[fresh laurel]

its dryo...

[spare badger]

Didn't Utah jump have I frames in legacy

[hollow canyon]

I don't want any of that in the game, if an animal gets hit it gets hit that's it

[fresh laurel]

not the end of the world

[fresh laurel]

nope

[hollow canyon]

It creates an awful precedent

[fresh laurel]

then that kinda makes dodge useless for dryo

but ig we can wait for burrowing

[hollow canyon]

There are ways of making dodge better but it's not going to happen any time soon

[spare badger]

Dodge's purpose is to get out of the way, not be invulnerable

[hollow canyon]

the devs won't go back to tinker with that ability likely before update 9 rolls out

[alpine plover]

Personally, I feel like EVRIMA Carno should have the same delay between bites as it's Legacy counterpart did.

Even though I do appreciate the RAM being made more "reliable" I believe it to be a tad too much. Turn in place buff wasn't really needed in my opinion, the playable was fine without it and it was much more skill oriented than it currently is.

For the most part I think this playable has way too many strengths and way too little weaknesses. Too fast of a bite, both normal bite and the alt-bite sideways are way too fast, it's acceleration now is insane, which makes it charge A LOT faster.. add that to how Carno can turn while ramming, and even while running without charging.

How are you supposed to punish the playable for making mistakes if it's kit is built so it doesn't make any.. lol

[spare badger]

I would make it like a jump but lower to the ground and omni directional

[fresh laurel]

my thing is the small boys feel like they been left out of balancing for a good bit ngl

[hollow canyon]

alt bite was an absolute noobtrap before the change to it

I mean

it had one use in a very specific situation

[fresh laurel]

alt bite on release for carno was so fast and low stam cost LMAO

[hollow canyon]

aside from that you should've never been using it

[fresh laurel]

like god

[hollow canyon]

Nah, alt bite on release was hot garbage, you're thinking about one specific patch that buffed it up

it was absurdly fast on one patch

hot garbage before it, hot garbage after it

[fresh laurel]

either way i think replacing carno alt bite animation to a head swipe would be cool

[hollow canyon]

it's good now, if it's too good at something then the best way of nerfing it is to nerf the stamina cost

[hollow canyon]

not happening, too much work

[fresh laurel]

you cant say its not happening for if a dev decides to change their mind

[alpine plover]

^

[hollow canyon]

I can

[fresh laurel]

not

[hollow canyon]

because I know what the QA have said about it

They outright stated about this specific suggestion

[spare badger]

A carno kept getting me to follow it, claw it, then it would alt bite me in the face

That wouldn't work except for the fact that when I turned around and kicked its face it didn't register
He did it like 3 times and kick didn't work every time

[fresh laurel]

desync momento

[hollow canyon]

"it's not going to happen and isn't going to be considered - any changes that would require the devs to go back and animate an animal that's already in the game to give it a whole new attack isn't going to happen"

[spare badger]

Makes sense
Waste of time

[fresh laurel]

that scraps every suggestion i seen for a new utah move

amaze

[hollow canyon]

This sounds like an issue do you believe those kicks reached Carno?

[spare badger]

Yes since it was stuck on me

And still biting me

[hollow canyon]

ok, I haven't had that happen but that sounds like a problem, if it happens again try to record it

[spare badger]

I moved my camera the second time to see if I was making contact and I definitely was

[hollow canyon]

do you have shadowplay on?

[spare badger]

What is that?

Excuse my lack of knowledge

[hollow canyon]

It's an nvidia thing where if you have an nvidia card you can have "shadowplay" which means that you can press to buttons to record the last ~5 or 10 minutes of gameplay.

or you can just outright start recording as it goes

but shadowplay specifically just records your gameplay in a game as it goes and then deletes it, you can just use it to save the last couple of minutes of gameplay.

[spare badger]

I see

[hollow canyon]

it's useful especially in this game as it can allow you to save some weird, sudden and unexpected bugs

[spare badger]

Tbh it might just be my shitty frames
I get 15 frames on average
30 if the server isnt full

[hollow canyon]

oof

I wouldn't be able to play like that

[spare badger]

I am getting a new graphics card soon
They are hella expensive rn

[spare badger]

I got 60 in update 3...

[alpine plover]

Carno feels like a tough playable to balance, but I feel like they should really check it's mechanics kit for the Quality of Life update.

Again, I do feel like the playable has too many strengths and too little weaknesses. There's little to no room of punishing a Carno as say Utahraptor or Pachy. Carno pretty much recovers insanely fast from everything it does, so that leaves little to no vulnerabilities when it comes to going in for a bite between cooldowns, it has okay bleed resistance, it has an insane amount of stamina still, the new acceleration makes it be able to charge literally a few seconds after it starts running.

Teno v Carno match-up is a little more fair, but god damn.

How do you survive that playable then?. You might think, fracture it, or run. Utah can run and it has more maneuverability than Pachy.. so it can do it, but Pachy? It is not going to be capable of running, since Carno is going to come after it. Side-stepping or just completely turning no longer works, because of Carno's turn-in-place buff.. your only option left is to be able to fracture it, oh wait.. leg fracture hitboxes are super wonky and it's very very hard to hit.

[spare badger]

I have a 1060 rn

[hollow canyon]

If you're getting a new GPU just for this game idk if I wouldn't hold on with that

I've tested the game on a 3070 and it got slaughtered by Evrima

[spare badger]

Not just for this game
Just in general

I'm getting a 3060

But it should give me at least a few more frames

[alpine plover]

now, if playables had the same speed as it was before the changes, then that would make matters a whole lot better and balancing would potentially not be so difficult.

[spare badger]

What do you use?

[hollow canyon]

So I normally play on 980Ti

that's what I have on my desktop PC

but I do have a gaming laptop with a

let me look up the specs

[spare badger]

How many frames do you get?

[hollow canyon]

ryzen7 5800h processor and geforce 3070

so the way it worked was

it was outright unplayable on cinematic, high got like 40fps on 100 render scale

it was slaughtering the GPU the whole time

the CPU was fine none of the cores went above 50%

epic was 25 fps iirc

[spare badger]

I don't remember what quality my graphics are
They are either medium or high

[hollow canyon]

I used to have it on high on my normal PC but some time ago I've switched to low on everything

[spare badger]

Maybe epic? I don't remember

[hollow canyon]

I honestly don't pay that much attention to the graphics and setting it to low makes noticing people just easier

[spare badger]

I remember lowering the graphics and my frames didn't get better and the game just looked bad

[hollow canyon]

that's kind of what tinkering with the render scale did during that test

it got ~10 fps when it got decreased from 100 down to 10

idk what's up with that, in general the test was done by my brother who normally uses that laptop(I prefer to play on a desktop PC anyways so he normally uses the laptop)

I'm not sure what the other settings were

but maybe it was something to do with antialiasing or something, perhaps that was what was killing the GPU

[spare badger]

I can't check my settings since I'm out of town

[hollow canyon]

but either way this game has no right to do something like that to a £1300+ laptop

[spare badger]

They need to decrease the speed you can go when fractured
Carno needs acceleration reverted so it can't turn and go back to top speed right away
Teno needs fixes
Pachy needs better fracture and trot

[hollow canyon]

Pachy first of all needs to have that turn rate nerf either partially or completely reverted, I haven't played the animal much I just checked it as a juvie and killed it off because tbh that is unplayable

nerfing turn rates should be one of the last things that the devs should do, it should be a last resort measure

[spare badger]

If you can 1 hit fracture that may not be necessary but it may be either way

[hollow canyon]

I don't think it would even matter with Pachy turning that badly

[spare badger]

Maybe

[alpine plover]

Agreed

I don't know exactly what Teno's problems are other than potentially increasing the kick hitbox since sometimes it just doesn't hit when it should.. and perhaps slightly work on the animation since it looks slightly weird with the new speed, but.. agree on all the other things

[spare badger]

Too much stam drain on slam for its usefulness

[hollow canyon]

high stam cost on the tailslam

damn goddamn mixpackers, just killed a Pachy and Carno as a tenonto

and another Tenonto and Stego went at me

[spare badger]

Rip

[hollow canyon]

yea rip them

[spare badger]

Did you escape?

[hollow canyon]

sure thing

[spare badger]

Nice

Herbis can't track so you would be fine

[hollow canyon]

if I wasn't low on stam I'd try to clap that Teno too

[spare badger]

#BuffTenoStamRegen

[alpine plover]

sadly that's the usual environment in official servers for me and the reason why I refuse to play in them XD

there are three things I hate in The Isle, killing of sport people, bodyguarders and mixpackers.. official servers checkmark all of those things

[hollow canyon]

meh, can't clap it, cause Stego protects it

I mean I've clapped it but can't kill it

another one that doesn't know the power of the kick

the Carno was a fresh adult or a large sub I think

idk why it was trying to charge me

Pachy wasn't fully grown either

[alpine plover]

I hope this game at some point reaches a sweet spot when it comes to balancing where it really turns more into a survival game and fights require actual skill rather than just spam bite and kill everything. I love The Isle and I love seeing it grow and bring more new stuff, though they really need to do some proper balancing, on locational damage, hitboxes and such.

[hollow canyon]

he just has to hide behind his fat buddy

[alpine plover]

I'm honestly happy in that regard that they're doing the Quality of Life pass for the game which means they'll most likely be going through the mechanics they've already made, hitboxes, locational damage as well as a lot of other stuff and changing them as it's needed.

That's going to be one of the most important updates for the game, I feel like.

[hollow canyon]

why is this wall even there?

[hollow canyon]

oh yea, i await that update too, it's probably the most important one

[alpine plover]

agreed, yeah. It's one of the most important ones if not the #1 most important one.

[alpine plover]

I'm more surprised about the fact that Stego is even capable of crossing that step, it shouldn't really be able to

[hollow canyon]

good point

[alpine plover]

So for my pc which can run legacy with no issue but for some reason for Evrima it doesn’t run well. I literally turned all the graphics in settings down to low and it lags and almost crashes on me. Evrima used to run better for me in update 3 but since update 4 and recently the graphics, detail or shading has made playing it harder no matter how low the graphics but it don’t matter how low it doesn’t run clearly for me. I have to play legacy. Because it runs so much better so yeah I don’t know if this is a bug or glitch but I need to report this for me

[hollow canyon]

Yea legacy simply has a much better optimisation

or should I say - Evrima has a really poor optimisation all around

[alpine plover]

yeah, from what the devs always say.. EVRIMA's optimization is always been worked upon, it's a constant thing. But it definitely runs pretty badly for a lot of us.

I have found some settings that make it run decently stable but I usually don't get over 50 FPS's.

as time comes I hope it runs better and better for all kinds of PC's. Low - Medium and High-end

[hollow canyon]

@vale harness While the diets in general are just atrocious and herbivores being forced to travel all the way across the map as a fresh spawn is just an awful idea Tenonto specifically has probably the easiest growth out of all the herbivores and growing it contains as much afking as growing carnivores.

You have to make that 15-25 minute trip first after spawning in but after that you can basically stay pretty much afk to full adult.

I've grown like 5 Tenontos since the update dropped and each one of them had basically an artificially added 15-25 minutes to the growth time because of the diets.

But I got to afk on all of them

I think Stego is probably the toughest one to grow with pachy being in between these two

[vale harness]

right but that's a trip carnivores dont have to take, and there is no running with 50% growth as a carno, you insta fill to full on all 3 nutrients. if pachy couldn't get run down by a fractured carno because of the great scent system, and if a teno could counter the packs of 4 carnos i wouldn't care as much, but carnivores have to be made harder to grow or they're gonna stay at such a large % of the population

[hollow canyon]

With Carno specifically in my experience(I've grown only like 2 or 3 so far) I have basically first had to run around for a bit to get the first nutrients, then I got to afk a bit until about 25-30%, then had to move again and then I typically looked for a boar at around 40%+.

So I have to move more often but I move less with each trip since they typically don't require me to move across the map.

I don't disagree that carnivores should be made harder to grow

they should definitely be harder than herbivorous counterparts

the fact that Tenonto takes as long as Carno is a joke

it's intended to have a shorter growth time but diets artificially extend it by some additional 20 minutes

[vale harness]

you make good points but i just cant fucking handle that they made it take longer to grow, and require insane amounts of work. making growth more painful to try and fix the afk growing problem is driving me to my last straw

[hollow canyon]

I think this is basically the devs trying to fix a problem that exists for a reason

if playing juveniles was fun people wouldn't try to afk grow them

[vale harness]

yep, but instead lets just make it even more tedious and painful

[hollow canyon]

but the game punishes you heavily for dying - you basically lose all the progress - while the real fun really only starts when you reach full adult

[vale harness]

fun timer

[hollow canyon]

Yea, ngl I preferred afk growing herbivores all the way

rather than having to waste 20 minutes of my time holding "w" and "shift" before I get to afk

like... this isn't gameplay

I mean it is, but it's atrocious

last Tenonto that I grew I was unlucky to run into a subadult Carno right after leaving the spawn point and filling up on one of the nutrients

[vale harness]

its just as boring as afk growing, except now you cant get shit done while you're growing, you're forced to sit and take it

[hollow canyon]

that moron made me lose 10 minutes of my time because he kept on chasing me back and forth across the river, he almost drowned

there was a point that I wanted to even let him kill me because it was just an outright waste of time

like this isn't fun gameplay

[vale harness]

yep, most of the time ill just log on and quit within like 5 minutes cause i remember how painful it is to play

[hollow canyon]

You can afk grow just fine, it's just that first you need to spend 20 minutes of your life just holding two buttons, at least give us an autowalk so that I can minimise the game while I'm travelling

I've had that since update 4 rolled out

I had to attempt to play the game multiple times over

and really it still keeps on happening

today I had to log in 3 times before I actually got to play the game because the diets are just annoying

[vale harness]

it's a survival game, but when the only aspects of survival are two bars that take 40 minutes to deplete. then people find the one thing fun to do. fight. but you cant fight till adult, so its just a fun timer

[hollow canyon]

it's like - I log in and then think to myself "I can't be bothered to deal with this"

Yea, it's a time investment you first have to make before you get to play the game really

the idea isn't... to bad in theory because this makes it so that people put something on the scales while fighting others but at the same time... at least make it a little bit more interesting

[vale harness]

deathmatch also sucks, no penalty for dying isn't better, but atleast i don't have to plan out a whole fuckin day just to grow a few dinos that can die in a matter of seconds

[hollow canyon]

^

tbh if sandbox was out Idk if I could even be bothered to play survival as it is

which to be fair might be an argument against releasing sandbox faster

but I swear I'd rather have sandbox at this point than literally anything else

[vale harness]

if there was a version of sandbox where you could do 1v1s un interrupted i wouldn't play survival

[hollow canyon]

any mechanic or playable takes the back seat in my opinion

I mean there probably would be, you could always just spawn with a friend on some part of the map and just 1v1 there

it's just a matter of actually having sandbox in the game

the diets have made survival so much worse

It's like a household chore now

[vale harness]

yea, the diet system was my favorite future update in update 3. i thought i would be able to do something, and grow quickly. they just destroyed it so badly

[hollow canyon]

tbh I think I'd prefer to clean the entire house rather than spend however long walking back and forth growing a Stego

The fact that the actual growth times are outright longer than they used to be

is probably the biggest pain

it's just salt on wounds at this point

Utah and Ptera might just be the only playables that have actually shortened growth times

[vale harness]

and they kept on saying before update 4 came out, that you grew really fast. then everyone found out that they basically just made it so you are only dodging 4 hour growths

[keen plover]

I think diets are fine- if they didn't mess with the growth. Although I can understand why people may think its bad otherwise

[hollow canyon]

I think they are bad overall

this system is way too simplistic, I take an issue with those 3 nutrients

[keen plover]

Yeah they're not really good- but the growth is what really messes it up for me

[hollow canyon]

that just works really poorly in general, the fact that it also extends the growth times is just an additional problem

[vale harness]

i just miss the days when evrima first came out when i could hop on and graze as a teno to live. it felt simple and easy to grow, yea it took some time but it felt like you were playing an herbi. now it's just painful

[hollow canyon]

Ngl I also had more fun in early Evrima

update 2 was when I had the most fun

[vale harness]

like yea utah was over powered. but it was fun. i just want it to be fun

[hollow canyon]

well if you don't count all the performance issues, the lag and the sudden drops

[vale harness]

i have a ton of u2 memories. carno was also super strong, but it was still just so fun

diets just sucked the life outa it

[hollow canyon]

I'd honestly say that the main issue with update 2 was the fact that Stego was awful

that was probably the animal that drew the shortest stick on that update

everything else was... good?

[vale harness]

yea for sure. i played stego once that entire update, it was just teno every time, i never got bored, growing was simple, fights were fun

[hollow canyon]

Carno and Utah were a bit too good

[vale harness]

dinos weren't all underpowered

[hollow canyon]

but I honestly had fun fightin them as Tenonto

[vale harness]

same, they were strong but even if i died i just came back

now you die and just sit there like 'great, there goes 4 hours

[fresh laurel]

back then utah was made for solo gameplay but when you packed you just became god

[hollow canyon]

I had some really fun action on the old swamp where I'd swim across it, sneak up on a trio of Carnos sitting down, run out of the reeds slammed the smallest one to the death and ran back into the water getting away from the two adults

stuff like that was happening almost all the time

I honestly didn't eat any bushes as a Tenonto

I just grazed so that I wouldn't have to leave my swamp

[vale harness]

the utah fights when swamp was shallow. or when teno would body a utah in the war

water*

[fresh laurel]

i remember me and my 10 utah pack in update one all trying to murder a teno herd of 8

[hollow canyon]

Utah was good but its pounce was already kind of buggy, I almost uninstalled the game after I ended up getting stuck mid-air and died to 2 Carnos that I was clapping up until that point

damn I was sure I'd get one of them

and then that happened

I legtimately outright ragequit at that point

[vale harness]

what happened, objectively the new isle is more finished and polished. but every ounce of enjoyment was sucked out of it

[hollow canyon]

^

[fresh laurel]

lmao facts

[hollow canyon]

The new stuff doesn't make it more interesting at all, it feels like some boring duty, like some homework that you have to do before you get to sod off and play a video game

Like I get it, they want it to be more focused on survival and less... deathmatch-y

[vale harness]

every update, i start playing for like 30 minutes like 'oh thats kinda cool' then after i find out even more fun was sucked away and 9 more things broke, i just have to hope they get it right next update, but they never have

[hollow canyon]

but really what I want from this game is to play some dumb dinosaur that goes chompa chompa on other dinosaurs

[keen plover]

Locked health…

[hollow canyon]

locked health isn't even that bad now

damn back in the day when it was bugged this mechanic was just a nightmare

I was unlucky enough to get it to bug out multiple times

[vale harness]

lol stego never had locked hp. it just kept healing, i remember that bug. my teno would have to wait for like an hour to get a bit of health

[hollow canyon]

I've realised something was wrong when I noticed that my Deino has been healing locked health for 4 hours

[fresh laurel]

health lock on its way to make you take 40 minutes to heal from near death

[hollow canyon]

that's nothing

I've once spent 4 hours healing up my Deino

[vale harness]

just grow a new deino xD

[fresh laurel]

health lock feels useless for its intended use

[hollow canyon]

that's what I had to do

I mean, it was a bug, I reported it

[spare badger]

Teno is a brawler and therefore should have less locked health than carno or stego

[fresh laurel]

at this point imo remove health lock and make regen slower...

[hollow canyon]

it got fixed and I haven't had issues with that since update 3.75 but

at the time I just had to kill that Deino off

[fresh laurel]

health lock should be the same for all playables

[keen plover]

I like the pvp aspect of the game. Just limit playables by what they can and can’t do. Not additional boring mechanics

[hollow canyon]

I kind of disagree, I think different locked health values or healing times is a decent idea

[vale harness]

honestly my favorite update they could possibly do. would be open another branch back up every once and a while, just for us to be able to play update 2 again. that would slap so hard

[hollow canyon]

although cancel that - I think locked health should be removed

the mechanic just doesn't work and doesn't bring anything useful to the game

[spare badger]

Either different locked health amount or different heal times
I don't image carno healing as fast as a teno or cerato

[spare badger]

It would bring something to the game

Like after update 10

[hollow canyon]

I personally see Cerato as an animal that heals quickly in general

[hollow canyon]

#doubt

[spare badger]

Cerato should be difficult to kill

[spare badger]

I mean with perks and ancestory and shit your life has meaning so getting into fights should be taxing

[hollow canyon]

Don't remind me about perks

[spare badger]

The idea is there
Execution? Not so much

[spare badger]

Why?

[fresh laurel]

it was suppose to stop kosing but it did nothing

[hollow canyon]

I dread the very idea of perks

[fresh laurel]

like dont fight or else you will be low hp for a looong time

[hollow canyon]

that's not at all what it was supposed to do actually

[fresh laurel]

what was it then

[hollow canyon]

I remember the circumstances of the introduction of this mechanic to the game very vividly and I know who came up with it

[spare badger]

As long as they aren't smth like "do 10% more damage" "have 100 more health" I'll be fine with it

[spare badger]

Remind me

[keen plover]

Strains

[hollow canyon]

the idea behind it was that you'd firstly have it so that a group of faster animals like Utahs wouldn't be able to just slowly kill an entire herd of Tenontos via repeatedly engaging them and then disengaging and having their companions heal up while their friends were keeping Tenonto's hps from regeneration combined with a scar system - if you had a herd of multiple herbivores you'd preferably choose the scarred one, knowing that it has locked health

as in - the animal that had locked health would be the natural choice in a hunt

in practice? None of this stuff matters

I literally never paid any attention whether someone had any scars or not