balance-feedback-discussion

[spare badger]

I understand where you are coming from but that is a terrible idea

[dusky surge]

i like juvi gameplay, and it could be fun if you made growth buffs literally anything but diets lmao. Diets are a good and fine idea, and I'm fine with poor diet = growth debuff, but having your growth ENTIRELY dependent on running to three diet items as an extremely small, weak and slow creature is silly. It's made some of the worst decisions, like the juvi carni diets.

Growth should be boosted by natural behaviours. Diets can play a small factor, but other key factors should be included

[mental roost]

I still kinda wish they did more unique things with the current juvi models... lankier builds and what not, particularly for Pachy, Deino, Stego and Teno younglings.

[fresh laurel]

utah gets increased growth speed for pouncing

[alpine plover]

Not really, if we put aside the balance of the game (which growth certainly does right now)
and see how this system effects the gameplay of how the average player engages with the game.
It's terrible

[mental roost]

Let me use steroids in human bases to increase my growth rate.

[alpine plover]

Like, it's just a terrible game

[fresh laurel]

what do yall think of this? to help reduce afk growers a good bit

[dusky surge]

why do you insist on pinging me to say the legit dumbest shit lmao

[fresh laurel]

[dusky surge]

the dumb troll face doesn't make it any less stupid

[spare badger]

i would probably rather have that

[mental roost]

I think it could be a neat idea.. But maybe not for all sub adults. As long as it's done well of course it could make for some more unique things going around.

[fresh laurel]

[fresh laurel]

what sub dinos shouldnt have this if my idea were a thing?

[alpine plover]

Pretty cool

[mental roost]

Pack hunters probably, animals with an emphasis on groups. More solitary animals should definitely utilize it though.(Rex is the obvious example of a unique sub adult v adult niche)

[dusky surge]

pretty cool but very hard to pull off. With animals like rex, sure, but you have animals that just don't have that lmao

it would only really make sense for more independent animals which don't rely on a close family/pack to protect them

[fresh laurel]

so apexes or brawler dinosaurs?

[mental roost]

It'd make sub adult apexes feel less like just shitty versions of the adults

cough legacy sub Giga cough Sub trike in legacy too cough

[alpine plover]

I came out with the a bad headline to discuss the meat and potatoes of the topic lol
But picture a newcomer interested in the genre
They sit down and play the game. They pick your average medium carni/herbi
And then minutes pass by as they look for food, and then more time passes. Not much is happening, there isn't much to tinker or engage with. Then more time passes, they're growing gradually as more time passes. They die from circumstance, and then the whole process begins again....

[fresh laurel]

sub rex was probably the best apex sub stage ngl

you could actually main it...

[alpine plover]

That's essentially what I was getting at
From an interactive engagement standpoint. The game is almost unbearable with full focus.

[fresh laurel]

but evrima it would probably just make rex not feel that sad to grow while making it take a good bit to reach

[mental roost]

This is honestly one of the reasons why I'd be reluctant to tone down or reduce AI in the map.... It at least adds some fucking variety and makes things feel a little bit more alive. The island already looks like it's on the verge of ecosystem collapse.

[alpine plover]

Right, but that isn't even the bare minimum bar for what should be acceptable

[spare badger]

its an unfortunate concequence of the game being unfinished and the type of game they are trying to make. Hopefully perks and nesting make that process less grueling.

[alpine plover]

It's actually terrible, there's no debating that

[spare badger]

but making it easy to grow the OP animals wont fix anything

[alpine plover]

Remember, just a bad headline lol

[dusky surge]

i mean... there is debating that, but i doubt there's a debate you'll accept

[fresh laurel]

I think perk system would really help make growth real fun tbh

[mental roost]

I still want my fish that swallow or kill young dinosaurs and small deino's in lakes and rivers... without being the god awful boar AI.

[fresh laurel]

maybe have your sub or juvie perk into something that would help your adult stage too

[alpine plover]

A debate most people I reckon wouldn't accept
You cannot unironically sit and tell me the engagement retention in this game is acceptable

[fresh laurel]

boar hunt fish better than deino (real)

[mental roost]

Waiting for good Ai, = pain... I know good Ai is hard to put together but....damn, the current AI is so damn robotic.

[dusky surge]

i CAN, but again, you wouldn't accept it, so I'm not going to bother myself

[mental roost]

<---Me watching how to make Croissants by Joshua Weissman while growing a Stegosaurus

[alpine plover]

Uhh sure... lmao

[fresh laurel]

im kinda fine with ai but would it be so hard to make them drink water and also fear swimming?

[alpine plover]

Same, I watch youtube while afk growing or watch anime

Or used to, haven't touched the game for awhile

[spare badger]

i do agree juvie gameplay is atrocious, im sitting in a bush growing rn while watching youtube

[fresh laurel]

you know easiest way to remove afk growth would be to make it where your growth slows after like 10 minutes...

but that would be the boring way to fix it

[dusky surge]

that would do literally barely anything lmao

[alpine plover]

It wouldn't resolve much

[mental roost]

I'd love it if they had more unique behaviors, such as threatening before charging, clawing at the ground, biting on bark, giving false charges, zig zagging, ACKNOWLEDGING when you're hidden and having stamina and a clear sign of exhaustion and periods of being extra alert due to some loud noises or seeing you(such as an animation where they lift up their head being their "smell" that serves as a brief moment of hyper alertness before calming down briefly.

[fresh laurel]

new record...

[alpine plover]

You cannot also force people to be glued to their keyboards while walking in circles for 9 hours

[dusky surge]

?????

[fresh laurel]

you said lmao for the 1,861 time

[dusky surge]

yea

idk its a dumb habit

[fresh laurel]

amaze

[dusky surge]

i did it ironically then i fucked up

[fresh laurel]

yea... once you do it, you can never go back

[mental roost]

Sounds like an addiction.

[fresh laurel]

prob is for em

[spare badger]

same lmao

[fresh laurel]

your 97th lmao

[alpine plover]

What if....

[mental roost]

The Isle: Survive it.

[fresh laurel]

oh lord...

[alpine plover]

You remove growth entirely, and just spawn in with zero abilities and lower stats
Then move up and gain perks as progression

[fresh laurel]

i said utah 1,158 times in this server

[mental roost]

There's still a lot that can be done with AI... so much cool potential but it'll take... awhile before we ever see anything close to being good probably.

[fresh laurel]

help

[dusky surge]

lmao no, sounds like early PoT

[spare badger]

we are reverting to progression?

[dusky surge]

that shit was snorable

[alpine plover]

I might just take it over youtubing in a bush tbh

[fresh laurel]

so pot 2019?

oof

[alpine plover]

But again, arguing on taking the bad thing over worst things leads to nowhere

[dusky surge]

(i say this as if new PoT is literally any better)

[alpine plover]

I've yet to see a plan or suggestion to resolve growth properly

[dusky surge]

i dont see growth as something to be "resolved" at all but whatever

[alpine plover]

Cool if a juvie can do a backflip or climb a tree
Doesn't fix the problem still

[mental roost]

I don't know how to feel about that...the growth but no perks or buffs thing...

[dusky surge]

i like growth

[alpine plover]

It's implementation certainly leaves alot to be resolved

[fresh laurel]

don't mind if I suggest making solitary hunters have shorter juvenile stages with longer sub stages with different niches rq...

[mental roost]

Be cool if growth was more dynamic..but probably too late now as trying to alter it would probably break so much shit it wouldn't be worth it.

[alpine plover]

People treat it as something to deal with rather than to engage with

Which is a fundamental issue with a mechanic

People should never be going on Youtube or cooking dinner while playing this game to deal with a mechanic that takes away so much time

[dusky surge]

i go on youtube in fucking fast-paced round-based games

[fresh laurel]

I mean they managed to do pounce for all growth stages

[mental roost]

I usually only do that when there's downtime... Like L4D2 safe rooms.

[fresh laurel]

idk how the process went but if they had to adjust pounce for each grow percent...

[mental roost]

The Isle: I do it everytime I play.

[fresh laurel]

(hot take) make utah bite or alt bite do more bleed

[dusky surge]

is that even a hot take

ive heard tons of people ask for that

[fresh laurel]

yes now anyways...

[alpine plover]

hotter take, bite shouldn't even be a thing anymore

[mental roost]

Which took them till.. Update 3.5 if my memory serves me right? Which is worrying, given how many other things growth could affect if tinkered with too much.

[dusky surge]

???

[alpine plover]

That's right

[fresh laurel]

wait...

i wonder what giga perks will be as time goes on and what its elder would look like

[alpine plover]

I told you's, I'm full of them

[fresh laurel]

I think they didnt start making pounce for all growth stages until update 2 which is iirc when everyone started begging for it since juv utah or fresh adult utah was useless

[spare badger]

what does that even entail?

[alpine plover]

Would you like to know?

[fresh laurel]

so claw attacks?

[alpine plover]

Nope

[dusky surge]

speaking of perks, delegate perks to changing niche over time rather than "unga bunga stamina buff" or "ooga booga bite hard"

[spare badger]

Give me a TLDR

[fresh laurel]

funny kick attack for all dinosaurs?

[mental roost]

Weird take: exhaustion should be made more unique to where, you can still fight back but you dig into "reserve", as well as stamina based attacks now being slower and doing more damage(easier to evade and bait out), but still able to serve as a last line of defense instead of "Well shit, all I got is this useless bite attack to work with."

[hollow canyon]

no, it would be to make juveniles cool and interesting to play

[fresh laurel]

Bob be like

[mental roost]

Utah with a mask over its mouth?

[fresh laurel]

sir do you not know how many times i said that?

[fresh laurel]

utah shooting acid from its mouth?

[alpine plover]

Bite shouldn't just deal raw damage with no tradeoff, and you get to zip off with headshots, especially as a predator when you "catch" prey by biting them only for them to escape

[fresh laurel]

hmmmm

[mental roost]

We don't need COVID Raptor.

[fresh laurel]

so dynamic bite? if thats what you call it

would seem neat

[hollow canyon]

There's an asterisk to that though - because if you lose all of your progress with death... idk I think people are more likely NOT to participate in the game anyways, lest the survivability of juvies is equal to that of adults which idk if it should be

[alpine plover]

Biting should be more like a latch, a grapple
You catch prey with it, wrestle it
Try and get weakpoints where prey struggle to escape or fend you off with positioning.

[fresh laurel]

or make juv stage shorter while making sub stages longer and yet still equaling the normal growth time of said dinosaur

[hollow canyon]

^

[fresh laurel]

utah latches onto stego thigh

only to get shaken off

[alpine plover]

Deino ambushing or pouncing is already sort of an implementation of that already. So it could legitamtely happen

[fresh laurel]

amaze

[mental roost]

I've kinda tossed around ideas like that for awhile, given how biting works right now, is very simple.. .and weird when you see how actual animals bite and what not... but also needing to realize that, it'd be hell to program.

[fresh laurel]

pinning is kinda what you said but the animation of cera latching onto stego seems to be what you mean

which is cool

[spare badger]

would be absolutely impossible to properly code

[alpine plover]

Again, Deino ambush and Utah Pounce exists

[spare badger]

especially with lag

[spare badger]

what you describe is much more dynamic

[alpine plover]

Grappling with bites and latching to wear prey down would be way more dynamic, leave the big or faster hits to the special abilites

[mental roost]

A roblox game had something... similar...??? But it was also Roblox, which doesn't say much... So yeet this comment out of here.

[dusky surge]

and those two mechanics work GREAT and aren't half as complex as what you just described

[fresh laurel]

hell amount of new animations for that and how would they not make it pounce 2.0

[alpine plover]

The normal bite should be a latch or grapple, slows down prey
You can quick bite which should be nip

[mental roost]

It'd be the kind of thing that'd work for a single player game, or multiplayer but if all the dinosaurs were AI.... Much easier to program when players are not the ones controlling the dinos.

[fresh laurel]

(Hot take) add tug of war mechanic for when deino tries to grab anything pass 4k tons and thats still lower or equal to deinos weight

[dusky surge]

thats literally not a hot take everyone is suggesting that

[fresh laurel]

a rex nip would demolish anything

[alpine plover]

If they can be implemented(despite grievances). This can work too

[fresh laurel]

what does hot take mean lmao

i see more ppl use it

[fresh laurel]

how would it not become pounce 2.0 though?

[dusky surge]

hot take means its not an overused concept or the common consensus. A hot take is something radical that very few people have thought of or may agree with

[alpine plover]

Because they could grapple back, like bucking, but clawing to do damage, or wrestling to break the grip with positioning. Based on stam

[mental roost]

Probably in the hands of a legendary programming team, or AAA developer that isn't EA, Ubisoft, Betheseda, Konami, Blizzard, etc

[fresh laurel]

(hot take) gojirasaurus as a skin for mono

[dusky surge]

imo, other species as skins is just a fucking nightmare for nesting, so no

[mental roost]

Let me make crossbreeds.

[fresh laurel]

sounds like pounce with extra steps tbh

[dusky surge]

it really does

[fresh laurel]

hybrid momento...

[alpine plover]

You bite and grapple the front, the creature can bite or fight back to break it. Or just wrestle you off. If you catch the back of the neck, it'd be extremely terrible for most creatures except a few

[fresh laurel]

so pouncing except you can buck no matter what

thats what it sounds like chief

and would kinda invalidate utah

[dusky surge]

also some animals outright would not want to fight like that

[mental roost]

It sounds like a cool and awesome thing on paper, because it is and could open up a bunch of things...but actually making it....With the risk of spaghetti code.....I'd be very concerned. Maybe someone'll try it in the far future, maybe. But it'd take A LOT of work and experimentation and having a fresh canvas to work on.

[fresh laurel]

troodon with its one shot hp bar being forced to latch on to something in order to apply status effect oof

[dusky surge]

yep

[fresh laurel]

at that point it makes fighting 2 dinosaurs even harder ngl

like trying to get a quick bite on like 2 tenos only to have to latch on and get smacked to death

[mental roost]

I imagine it as primarily something to effect Predators... and varying depending on circumstance..but that opens up the coding and animation problems..

[alpine plover]

Only in certain positions
You grab the hind. It becomes a stam battle where you do minimal damage but wear down the creature. The bigger creature usually wins those, you can turn to fight and brawl off head to head. Grab the back of the head and it's trouble though, but there'd have to be conditions for that

[fresh laurel]

pounce with extra features/steps

[alpine plover]

Not really if you account for breaks or special abilities
Bad grapples can result in getting stego swiped

[fresh laurel]

you could add that to pounce and it would be fine

[mental roost]

Biting onto the ankle having its own unique mechanic, where you nip or hold on, shake and then let go and run on... needs animations, coding and proper placement to make it all work while not being broken. And probably prone to ** b u g s**

||This game is already pretty damn buggy.||

[fresh laurel]

imagine optimization of that

scawy

[mental roost]

You say that like most people aren't already getting 15-25 fps

[fresh laurel]

i see 30 fps as 120 now and see 15 as 60

[mental roost]

Stockholm syndrome. Honestly though for me, 60 is fine. I'm 100% okay with having just 60, and don't need to be much higher.

[fresh laurel]

look man if i could play evrima with stable 60 fps again it would be golden

[alpine plover]

I don't like where this argument comes from. Interesting or really cool implementations must be dismissed from a stance of difficulty. Despite sight of similar mechanics existing as a test bed right now. Even though the devs can be incompetent

[fresh laurel]

i didnt get stable 60 since update 2 or 1

[mental roost]

I mean, some people are REALLY good at overcoming those odds and are probably capable of it...But I don't think many would actually be willing to take the risk.. There's always the chance it could go wrong too as it's basically a mechanic/system that needs to be built as a FOUNDATION piece, not something to just be added on mid production.

[mental roost]

I haven't had 50 fps since update 2...

[alpine plover]

That is true, but it's better now more than ever to add such foundation pieces

You won't be able to realistically add this 3-4 years from now

[fresh laurel]

me rocking that stable 70 fps before they decided to update legacy again

now my legacy fps is worst

[mental roost]

I haven't seen legacy in ages.

[alpine plover]

Dilo/Troodon could still bite and run

[mental roost]

It could very well require a recode... of an already existing recode.. which is scary to think about. Could also mean a huge content drought for AWHILE.

[alpine plover]

And there could be hitboxes for it too, it wouldn't just auto grab you unless in a certain range and a specific hitbox

[fresh laurel]

yea... recode needed for when evrima code becomes messier than legacy

[mental roost]

And then a recode of that recode.

I'd honestly really like if they'd put more emphasis on going for the neck/head when hunting as a carnivore...most herbivore weapons aren't really designed for precision, but carnivore's are so that could be interesting to mess around with.

[alpine plover]

Maybe upping bite headshot damage?

Give it a special percentage

[mental roost]

I'd probably reduce tail, and body damage even further, and upping headshot damage(or add neck damage)), as well as damage types.. Ei, blunt and slashes ignore it a little less but bites get the most bang for buck from taking advantage of weak points.

[alpine plover]

Also, when I propose the bite grapple idea, I don't mean biting/grappling then being done with a creature in one go

[mental roost]

I figured that, rip. That'd be crazy.

[alpine plover]

I'm thinking more of like a damage over time, mauling like a wolf. Releasing, then going for another go

Special abilites are still usuable in certain circumstances

[alpine plover]

Maybe in one go if the size disparity is wide enough
Like Alberto and a young Teno

[mental roost]

Well, that'd probably still work with our current mechanics, rip. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a more unique combat system, but it'd certainly be a huge feat to try and take on.

[fresh laurel]

me when carno can erase utah purely from tail hits

[mental roost]

"Oh no, my tail got bit 4 times, guess I'm dead now."

[fresh laurel]

make it so you cant die from tail hits

[alpine plover]

Maybe make bite do "slow" damage too?

[fresh laurel]

simple

[alpine plover]

If you get bit, you slow down briefly

It'd be more tolerable in chases

If you hit the mid body or leg ofc

[mental roost]

Please not the L4D2 common infected melee

[alpine plover]

Not that drastic

[mental roost]

Hit by 1 troodon

proceeds to slow to a complete halt

Proceeds to get killed by Rex mixpaxing with troodons

[alpine plover]

Maybe in similar size categories

Para could shrug off Utah/Dilo hits

Get's affected by Alberto

[mental roost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iJeI60hfEU

[fresh laurel]

dont think pachy shrugging off a utahraptor or dilo bite

[alpine plover]

Para

Parasaur

[mental roost]

Paratoad

-It'd be nice if pin had some actual counter play to it, or more unique systems..

[alpine plover]

(Basically grapple)

This is why my idea is genius

[fresh laurel]

bro what game ui is that...

im having dajavu

[mental roost]

L4D2

[fresh laurel]

thx

[alpine plover]

One last take

Adrenaline system

It can work

[mental roost]

Depends on how it's implemented, rip

I gave an idea earlier of a last stand sort of mechanic that noone commented on, F

[alpine plover]

Conditions: Perfect Diet/Mother with hatchlings in near vicinity/Most Cerato's

Pros: a brief period you have unlimited stam, can ignore staggers. And knockbacks are reduced.

[mental roost]

Female Teno when buff kicks in

Part of me feels like that could be abusable though.

[alpine plover]

Cons: You can die from cardiac arrest by abusing special abilities/attacks/sprinting, you burn hunger/water/diet bars down, and your stats are significantly lowered for a long period until you gradually heal it off.

Longer you stay adrenaline rushed, the heavy the consequences are until immediate death.

[mental roost]

Should probably be something that stops it from being a constant thing, as well as being abused for KOS(ei just keep hatchlings around and kill them as to keep the main individual in the adrenaline state, and keep resetting or some shit)

Just a spitball of a way it could be abused a little too heavily(some big brain meta gaming in a dinosaur game of all things)

[alpine plover]

Maybe must have decently fed children, a great diet. For mother dino's

[mental roost]

Metagaming in a dinosaur game for maximum damage and killing potential using nesting mechanics:

I'd probably also have it so it's required that the children are alive for a little while.. so you can't just keep popping babies and letting them get killed and respawn back in.

[alpine plover]

Resetting adrenaline would be difficult as there's a decently long cool off period where your dino is trash and is unable to accomplish it

It's more of a one off thing, and there's a price to pay for using it

[mental roost]

Could have another female on standby, and switch them in and out in theory.

[alpine plover]

Two females?

[mental roost]

Two females, and 1 male

[alpine plover]

No, one must be a bio mother

[mental roost]

don't make that sound wrong

[alpine plover]

You could theoretically, but after the burnout period, the entire group is vulnerable except for one playable

And players should know beforehand that mothers are dangerous

You can't just walk up and expect a cakewalk when they're near well cared children

[mental roost]

I might maybe push for it to be mostly on the slower playables???? Maybe

[alpine plover]

Ehhh, it's time based remember? You could simply run away, come back when they're burned out.

[mental roost]

Someone with a 185 IQ would probably still find a way of abusing it and wreck havoc + spreading it

[mental roost]

Fair, fair.

[alpine plover]

True, but that's a hyper specific example. You could argue to never implement anything if someone smart abuses a mechanic

If it's fundamentally flawed and everyone can abuse it. Then it's fair game to criticize

I also included Cerato have lowing bars to achieve this

Since it's going to be an "underdog" to punch up

This way, you would always be uncomfortable around a Cerato, even as an Allo or Alberto

It could just decide "fuck it" and attack in a devastating savage flurry.

[mental roost]

I'd be fine if Cerato was made into a spastic little shit, rip.

[alpine plover]

They did say it was going to be a "honey badger"

We all know how those insane little creatures are

So it'd be a perfect fit

[dusky surge]

i really dont like the adrenaline idea. It'd make combat feel awful for whoever didn't have the boost

[alpine plover]

There's counterplay

And it'd be really specific engagements

If the diet system is working as intended
It's not something you'd see everyday, and messing with perfectly healthy creatures should be discouraged if you're hunting

Maybe you can disable adrenaline if bleed is too severe as well

[fresh laurel]

utah when buff kicks in

https://tenor.com/view/jojo-za-warudo-dio-power-anime-gif-14918688

[mental roost]

-Insert DOOM music-

[fresh laurel]

infinite pounce

[alpine plover]

*Dies mid pounce because of cardiac arrest

[mental roost]

80 year old Utah fucking dies

[fresh laurel]

but when it fights pachy...

it ignores stun XD

so at that point pachy is dead

[dusky surge]

the cardiac arrest part has to be the thing i hate the most lmao

[mental roost]

Another one. No idea what number now.

[alpine plover]

If you abuse the adrenaline yeah, or keep it on too long

[fresh laurel]

imagine fighting for your life with adrenaline and you flop over for fighting with the advantage game gave you for a bit

irl when humans get a adrenaline rush i dont think we flop over and die if we keep spamming bite...

[alpine plover]

The heart beat would increase the more attacks you use while activated, or continuously extending the length.

[fresh laurel]

shouldnt there be a way to tell you

[alpine plover]

Ofc

[fresh laurel]

at this point you make it sound like kaoken

[undone rapids]

||technically my own music||

[fresh laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-kaioken-saiyan-gif-13198052

[dusky surge]

irl, the adrenaline is a fight or flight response, yet here, it's entirely fight lmao

[alpine plover]

And yeah, people can die in adrenaline. It happens

[fresh laurel]

stolen smh

[undone rapids]

it's mine 🤨

[fresh laurel]

its either you get that speed boost for a bit or a attack speed boost and you choose to fight or run

[fresh laurel]

stolen

[alpine plover]

It'd be broken if people did it en mass to suicide bomb creatures

[undone rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-shocked-fall-4k-4160p-gif-21623835

[undone rapids]

The Isle

[alpine plover]

Which is why there's specific prerequisites to the ability

[mental roost]

What is that. C r e a t u r e. Also I love it.

[fresh laurel]

but fr adrenaline utah seems freaking scary if the whole pack got it

[undone rapids]

Miss Evrima

[fresh laurel]

someone mod this in pls

[undone rapids]

lol

[dusky surge]

i just dont like it. Sounds like a really lame combat thing, also cera just being a constant adrenaline junkie sounds like the animal will fucking suck because it'll just DIE from a heart attack constantly

[undone rapids]

And ignores Bully Cera niche

[mental roost]

Give me my Skaven Troodon

MY WARP STONES

[fresh laurel]

why play cera when i can go carno with adrenaline

stego with adrenaline though...

[undone rapids]

cera is cool

[mental roost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zel1NCYPAA

[dusky surge]

also the "adrenaline buffs" outright favour some animals over others

[alpine plover]

How would it be a constant adrenaline junkie if using it one time takes so much resources and tradeoff for it. For a one time ability that can't be accessed for a long time while weakened.

[mental roost]

Imagine this, but with a fuck ton of Troodon's FLOODING out of the woods as you're a Merc with a flashlight

[fresh laurel]

yea but with the buffs ppl are saying adrenaline gives it makes it sound like bary with adrenaline is your best option

[dusky surge]

a pumped up adrenaline carno would be utterly fucked

it would just DESTROY tenontos

[undone rapids]

Adrenaline would be good in singleplayer 🙂

[fresh laurel]

dies after running 2 meters

[dusky surge]

^

[fresh laurel]

a pack though...

[dusky surge]

cause that sounds fun

[undone rapids]

singleplayer mode

[mental roost]

I don't think those are Carnos. I think those are Khorneotaurus

[fresh laurel]

a pack of adrenaline rushed ai carnos would give you a heart attack prob

[dusky surge]

those are literally just AI carnos

[fresh laurel]

utahs

[dusky surge]

AI carnos ignored stuns and continued sprinting regardless of stamina

[fresh laurel]

yea except now the ai carnos are buffed with kaoken

[mental roost]

List of Khornate Massacres. This list is incompete: you can help by EXPANDING IT

[alpine plover]

If every creature spawned with adrenaline in hand, sure

[dusky surge]

i just dislike adrenaline. It sounds situational, the downsides are AWFUL and if you have it and don't just fucking die from it, you win

[undone rapids]

AI dinosaurs

[fresh laurel]

maybe dont have it give you a instant heart attack but instead where it runs out you will feel completely tiered and out of it

[dusky surge]

that sounds less awful but still

[fresh laurel]

like its kinda the game saying you could of used this power to run but you kept fighting a match you werent certain to win

[mental roost]

I like the idea of my Dinosaur being 80 years old and having a heart attack mid battle right before it dies of old age due to being an elder.

[fresh laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/theisle-utah-utahraptor-gif-22957573

[alpine plover]

Using it to run wouldn't be optimal given certain circumstances
It'd be more of a defensive battle

[mental roost]

Why

[fresh laurel]

make this utah adrenaline rush aniamtion

[alpine plover]

(Yorichi before "the second strike")

[dusky surge]

this isn't dragon ball, you don't give animals fucking kaioken, because this is essentially what that is. Huge power boost at the cost of the body, except the player doesn't control it and it makes fights way more braindead

[mental roost]

Ayyy

[fresh laurel]

irl its used for fight or flight...

[dusky surge]

It's fucking fight or flight

[mental roost]

I really want to draw that quadrupedal Utah now.

[dusky surge]

So my dryo having adrenaline is just bad lmao

[fresh laurel]

thats what adrenaline rush is being described rn XD you die if you use it too long

but dmg boost

[mental roost]

I want a blood thirsty Dryo back

[alpine plover]

Holy shit, I just witnessed strawman in real time

[fresh laurel]

dryo had like 40 or 30n bite at some point right

[mental roost]

75 N

[spare badger]

that was fun

you could fight utahs

[fresh laurel]

i killed utahs thanks to that since dryo was speeeeeeeeeeed

[mental roost]

Yes I swear it once had 75 N while Utah had 150 and Carno 360 N or something

[fresh laurel]

150n utah... my beloved

[mental roost]

I killed an entire family of Utah's as a Dyro, as well as baby Deino's.

[fresh laurel]

me going on a rampage with my 4 member utah pack to make stego go extinct in update 2

[mental roost]

Think I got a juvi Carno too

[fresh laurel]

yea... now juvie utah can pin ptera and dryo

[dusky surge]

old bite forces were legit dumb, glad they're gone

[fresh laurel]

if bites had to scale imagine how high rex bite value would be

[mental roost]

I remember the little utah's trying to pounce my Dyro.. and me just punishing the hell out of them.

[fresh laurel]

how long ago was that

[mental roost]

Update.... 3.5 I believe, since I remember one of them pouncing me.

[fresh laurel]

i remember 2 dryos mauling my juvie utah until the rest of my juvie utah pack members came and helped me

[mental roost]

It was before the huge weight and damage changes.(3.75 I think)

[fresh laurel]

still dislike the whole weight = hp ngl

[mental roost]

S a m e.

[spare badger]

since when was Land Before Time music in this game

[dusky surge]

i like it more than what we had

[spare badger]

its better than before but still a flawed system

[mental roost]

Little Foot trying to get his Mom to wake up.

[fresh laurel]

shush

[spare badger]

STOP

[undone rapids]

no, why is it doing this 🤨

[fresh laurel]

sus download link

[spare badger]

this music is from his birth

[dusky surge]

boy i sure love 1000HP utah, that's not fucking stupid

[mental roost]

Let's milk what.. 6 or 7 direct to TV sequels out of it?

[undone rapids]

thanks

[alpine plover]

The health and weight system kind of ignore anatomy builds

[spare badger]

14 total movies, 22 TV episodes, multiple games

[alpine plover]

Little ass deinos can throw down with Carno's and Tenos by drowning them

[fresh laurel]

yea that could of just meant hp nerf instead of a whole weight = hp

[mental roost]

Remember when Deino's weight was busted?

[alpine plover]

I remember

[undone rapids]

this bad

[fresh laurel]

remember infinite alt bite?

[spare badger]

one of them was released in theatres, the 14th one

[mental roost]

I abused the hell out of it. Literally fought like 20 carno's and they couldn't even get me below 90%

[dusky surge]

nah, means they can actually do interesting shit with how weight, HP and other factors coincide, like what they did with pachy/deino. Pachy has 500HP but has passive resistances to head fractures and headbites, taking less damage to the head than to the body. Deino has 8000HP and blood but has a 0.5 bleed resist, halving all bleed damage it takes

[fresh laurel]

same lmao and i was able to 1v1 stego

[spare badger]

Beyblade Deino

[mental roost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRB-faOyUJI

[spare badger]

Stahp

[fresh laurel]

pachy could of had 501 hp and 500 weight and i still dont see giant need for hp=weight tbh

[alpine plover]

fuck little foot

[mental roost]

I want this feeling to happen when a Brachi player dies of blood loss, after a grueling fight.

[dusky surge]

okay but why

[fresh laurel]

why go with hp = weight when you could just turn down hp values to be reasonable?

[mental roost]

Beat a pack of Giga's, but still fucked. Proceed to sad music and a giant's rest.

[alpine plover]

I don't like the weight/hp system because the bites of creatures have to be nibbles

[fresh laurel]

before land before time when downhill by going pure little kids tbh

[dusky surge]

why... not just make weight = HP? If you're going to lower HP to be extremely close but not quite weight values, just go the full mile

[alpine plover]

I bite harder than the apex predators of this game

[fresh laurel]

could help with the whole ptera 2-3 shotting itself tbh

[mental roost]

Me when I see turkey all set and ready on a plate:

[dusky surge]

reduce the bite force of ptera instead, idk why its so high

[alpine plover]

Carno cannot eat at thanksgiving, it is too tough for him

[fresh laurel]

its beak looks like it would kinda hurt

[mental roost]

I'd still love a Diplodicid or Titanosaur to be playable...but sadly..

[dusky surge]

its a peck. 15 was silly for it from the start. Magpies also have painful beaks but they don't fucking do that much damage

[fresh laurel]

still hoping for gojirasaurus ngl

[alpine plover]

I don't want any more implementations

Roster is fucked up already

[mental roost]

This fucker.

[fresh laurel]

they are like 15 to 17 inches...

[dusky surge]

love that lil guy

[alpine plover]

Watch how he splits the roster
and destroys Allo HARD

[mental roost]

Cease.

[fresh laurel]

magy just needs to be replaced by chad amarga

[dusky surge]

no fuck you

[mental roost]

9 ton Magy. Take it or leave it.

[alpine plover]

Magy double jump

[fresh laurel]

make it so if you smell magy or stay close to it for too long you will start to vomit and if you eat magy you get instant death

[alpine plover]

I can bargain

[fresh laurel]

also ima main magy just to body guard rexes tbh

[mental roost]

50 km/h Magy is balanced.

[fresh laurel]

faster than allo be like

[alpine plover]

Yeah, it'd roll like a beyblade

[dusky surge]

magy is confirmed slower than teno

[alpine plover]

Since when

I thought it was faster than Allo

[mental roost]

Teno confirmed as the fastest quadruped, rip.

[dusky surge]

since teno was confirmed as the fastest quadruped

[alpine plover]

damn

Rip Magy

[mental roost]

So Magy's probably going to have to be up Teno's ass in terms of speed, or else Allo destroys it

[fresh laurel]

now its gonna die to allo even faster >:D

[mental roost]

When the day comes, I'ma grow an Allo, and go Magy hunting just out of spite

[alpine plover]

I'll play as Magy to kill other Magy's

[fresh laurel]

ima commit die on a utah pack stego kill as magy just to make sure they cant eat it

[alpine plover]

On sight

[dusky surge]

when the day comes, I'mma grow a magy because it'd be funny to watch animals specifically target me over some dumb spite shit

[mental roost]

Rotting corpse Magy is the most viable form of Magy, outside of Yautja Magy

[alpine plover]

It's funny

wait wait

Adrenaline Magy, that's the answer

[dusky surge]

no

[mental roost]

Perfect

[alpine plover]

Primal Zombie Sauropod Magy?

[dusky surge]

magy good, makes people angry

[mental roost]

That'd be legitimately terrifying....but also make it a strain or some shit.

[alpine plover]

Yeah, devs are stupid. No herbie strain my ass

[dusky surge]

the lack of herbie strains is bizarre

[mental roost]

That's how Magy get's its diet. Not from interacting with the system but living off of the spite of people. Making it always have a perfect diet.

[dusky surge]

just make herbi strains more defensively-oriented than the offensively-oriented carni strains

im unsure why they act like herbivore strains are not possible

[fresh laurel]

90% dmg neglection

[mental roost]

There's a lot of cool designs you could make from herbivore strains but..... Nah. No herbi strains. No additional cool objective or secrets for herbivore players to unlock or seek out. Only for a select few carnivores to get super powers for some reason(like 10% of the carnivore cast actually getting strains: Spino, Giga, Rex, Utah, Carno all confirmed to get Hypers, with Spino having had a Neuro made for it.)

[fresh laurel]

same reason why para isnt brought to have its new size ig

[dusky surge]

You could emphasise the armour and defensive power of a hypo (a strain with low speed but high armour, health, size and damage), the stealth and evasive power of a tisso (a quick, small and nimble strain with ways to hide) and something entirely different to replace a neuro

[alpine plover]

wait a second

Why is Hypo perfectly cool, but Adrenaline bad?

[mental roost]

Utah got bit by a radioactive velociraptor and became Hyper Utah. Dyro gets bit and nothing happens.

[dusky surge]

because you don't become a hypo if mildly frightened

[alpine plover]

nah man

[fresh laurel]

cus hypo gonna be hell to obtain

[alpine plover]

you do, apparently

[mental roost]

I still want the Hyper's to be drooling excessively and have amped up breathing to show that they ain't healthy.. and not particularly sane or stable either.

[alpine plover]

i just witnessed another strawman

[dusky surge]

what

[mental roost]

Could I use strawmans to make a nice roasted marshmallow or nah?

[prime folio]

I personally have had no problems with the carnos... they are easy to lose in bushes if you just dow zig-zags and jump over fallen logs

and I kill them with both Utah and Tenonto when I have 2 or 3 with me by taking turns working them down and running away

[dusky surge]

i like how nacen talks about strawmen then never elaborates

[alpine plover]

how can adrenaline be accessed by being mildly frightened, willy nilly as if it's a constant spammable trait

[dusky surge]

for cera, that's literally how you presented it

and again, hypos are fucking annoyingly hard to obtain

adrenaline is not

[alpine plover]

there's conditions to be accessed in concept, and tradeoffs to make it situational ability
Cera I can concede

[dusky surge]

hypos have a unique look and style so you KNOW when one is coming

not so much for adrenaline

[alpine plover]

With current diets, sure Perfect diets fall off of trees anywhere

[mental roost]

Hyper's should have a stink cloud around them change my mind.

They're constantly hungry, always eating, highly regenerative(lots of cellular activity going on), and always pissed off.

[dusky surge]

yep

[mental roost]

They gotta smell BAD.

[alpine plover]

Maybe global smell?

I doubt they'd be sitting around waiting for perfect ambushes anyways

[mental roost]

They'd realistically also have a high as hell body temperature too....

[alpine plover]

True, almost burning flesh

That stinks

Though I do dislike Hypos if they're anything fast

[mental roost]

And eating meat so fast that most of it hasn't even finished yet, resulting in a lot of gases inside the body, further adding to their stench

also probably some sort of must, or fluid leaking out of their bodies(testosterone or some shit)

Lore stuff that also plays a balance role and biological one.

[alpine plover]

Or digestive fluids since the body at that point is falling apart

The heat, pressure, and metabolism of a shrew for a creature of that size would fall apart everywhere

I suspect regenerative abilities would only hold it apart for as long as it does until it's demise

[mental roost]

Regeneration does also imply cellular activity,.. and lots of it = more heat... So further cause for them to be unstable.

Imagine, Merc's with thermal goggles, spotting what's this big fucking blob of yellow and white running towards them with trees all over.

[alpine plover]

So heat and regeneration are just dancing with each other as the tape holds the splitting body

Yeah

It'd be it's own miniscule biome surrounding it's body if it was immobile

[spare badger]

since they are working on beipi... How will they balance the thing, and what would it interact with?

[alpine plover]

Idk man

[mental roost]

. . . .Uhh........Velo? It'd help if they upsized it according to recent studies but......yeah I'm at a loss for Beipi. It's cool and all but I have no clue what's in store for it.

[alpine plover]

Deinos have fucked the rivers

[spare badger]

they are 95kg...

[mental roost]

2 shot by a Utah, ouch.

[spare badger]

they really should upsize it especially since we have found a bigger specimen

it was what, a little bigger than utah or something?

[mental roost]

It'd be easier to put it in at the larger size.. Given it's big but still not unreasonably big.

It was taller than our Utah, I believe, but like most Therizinosaurs, short on the length department when compared to similarly sized theropods(mostly due to shorter tail and change of posture/spine angling)

It was... like around Dilo height????

When'd the little baby man model get revealed?

He kinda cute.

[dusky surge]

eats fish and underwater plants primarily, preyed upon by most carnivorous semi-aquatics but is exceptionally quick. Also I reckon those claws won't be anything to scoff at

also i disagree with an upsize

i like the smaller beipi, i'd rather it not be just a theri clone

[spare badger]

it would be nowhere near theri size and still be able to have the same niche on a small tier scale instead of a tiny tier one

[mental roost]

Damn.

[dusky surge]

lil' beipi sounds fun honestly, i dont see the issue

[spare badger]

dunno they just feel too small, and the only creatures around its size are dryo and hypsi

[dusky surge]

based on art, this thing can fucking launch itself under the water

[spare badger]

maybe if there were more tiny tiers rn i would be fine with it

[dusky surge]

well obviously there's going to be more than just dryo and hypsi at that size as the roster expands

hell, even troodon is being added soon

[spare badger]

true

i concede

lil beipi could work

[dusky surge]

also

its fucking adorable

[spare badger]

true

[dusky surge]

lil man

juvi beipi is amazing

[spare badger]

they are actually a similar size

[dusky surge]

yea

[mental roost]

They better not ruin its fluff.

[dusky surge]

i hope baby hypsi is also fluffy

this is one of my fave images from any concept art

they found a bug and now have no clue what to do

they are lost and confused

[mental roost]

The concept art of baby Hypsi made it look cute.. The model from what I last saw(I think we got a picture of it??), is not as cute sadly.

[dusky surge]

they better fuckin' fatten that model up

i want him to be the chubster seen here

[mental roost]

Baby Therizinosaurus should look like a muppet.

[dusky surge]

gross goblin baby

[mental roost]

Just like the adult. An oversized goblin with claws and a beer gut

[dusky surge]

honestly there should be some ugly baby animals

i think having horrible goblin babies would be fun lmao

like baby stego has every right to be fucking adorable but some animals should be fucking hideous

[mental roost]

It'd make it so that NOONE mixes up baby Theri with a Beipi

[dusky surge]

very true

[mental roost]

Beipi has nice waterproof feathering. Baby Theri looks like muppet.

Baby Stego is a little chonker.

[dusky surge]

honestly that's not even a bad call

ugly theri baby would make it immediately identifiable

[mental roost]

Make it sound horrifying too

[dusky surge]

this is a good hot take i am all for the fucking disgusting freak that is baby theri

look at this and tell me it'd have cute babies

this is the perfect animal for this

[mental roost]

Here's your baby Theri I made in 2 minutes

Don't put that image in my head.

[dawn geode]

baby theri

[dusky surge]

YES

[dawn geode]

the hoatzin babies are like the perfect example

baby beipi is like a lil goose while theri is a horrible sounding ugly baby with messed up feathers

[dusky surge]

please

that'd be awesome. Theri has the perfect model for ugly babies

[dawn geode]

yup

WAIT

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.HOWodzPvXxyZRUnra92GogHaHa?pid=ImgDet&rs=1

actually that looks odd for a theri

[dusky surge]

nah, too fat

[dawn geode]

yeah

I wonder what they would sound like

why tf was a boar hunting fish

and why do they swim faster than crocs

[keen plover]

One got me after getting out of the river. They seem to be great around water

[dusky surge]

is it?

based on how irl cheetah are, a carno cheetah wouldn't be so dominant lmao

[marsh lion]

I'd rather they not change Carno anymore

[dusky surge]

why

why do you post that emote every time lmao

[azure crescent]

but when they're the biggest land predator in their environment they are

[dusky surge]

lmao

[dim radish]

I know I may be a little late but I wouldnt say Carno fits the cheetah type.
Cheetahs are small (compared to bigcats, since they are not part of the big cat family), fragile, fast, low on stam and agile.
I could actually see a creature like Mono being a speedy cheetah with maybe the use of poison to deal low damge ambush attacks with perhaps the addition of poison. But not Carno, Carno is more of a torpedo

[wise sparrow]

Carno could use a light nerf to its walking turn and ram turn. But the main problem arises from

1. Diets giving carnivores free adult

2. Almost every other playable having their main mechanic broken

3. Other animals being expected to have a fair, 50/50 1v1 with the animal twice as fast. Without taking packs into assumption

4. Megapacks are stupidly easy for carno to form because they can sustain a population off of themselves and have a very slow hunger drain

[hasty coyote]

@sly pilot just an fyi, if a pachy bashes a carno when it is charging, it cancels the knock down, but breaks the pachy’s ribs. So they have a chance to run at least. But they do need either other pachies or something to help defend them afterwards, which they generally should have.

[spare badger]

I grew a carno for the first time since update 2
It was so easy, the only reason I died is that I ran into the big where you can't eat and I started starving before I could relog

Either way all I did was sit in a bush and fill up on nutrients under 50 percent and grew almost seamlessly after that

Baby carnivores should have diet needs
Although they should be different
For example, baby carno should eat rabbits and chicken

[ripe furnace]

It’s good

[fresh laurel]

Like utah

[ripe furnace]

Omnivore theri? 🥸

[torpid gull]

50% utah getting straight up gutted by a pig lol......
But yea lets buff carno some more....

[hollow canyon]

50% Utah weighs barely more than a quarter of that pig

besides - if you're decent with Utah you can take that "pig" down

if you're bad you will die to it but that's on you

Carno stands a chance against the pig from 40% onwards at which point you're much larger than a 50% Utah so

[fresh laurel]

carno - only needed charge to be more reliable
also devs - buffs carno turning

i question some balance ideas ngl

[sinful cove]

the devs' balancing decisions are like that "two shots of vodka" meme

[hollow canyon]

Pretty sure Carno's charge was better before this patch?

Now you can no longer knock things down when you hit their tail

although I think you turn slightly better

Carno definitely needed a turn in place buff, Idk about doing that on the same patch when you're nerfing Tenonto and Pachy though

either nerf one and don't buff the other or buff one and don't nerf the other, doing both at once just keeps on swinging the balance first one way then the other

[fresh laurel]

carno ram is just easier to hit now

prob due to acceleration buffs

but them turn radius buffs werent needed tbh since mind you carno could control the engagements with speed alone

[hollow canyon]

Idk, when i was fighting a Carno it couldn't hit my Tenonto with the charge all the same

although maybe all those Carnos were bad, idk

[fresh laurel]

i dunno man with new camera adjustment too carno ram is even easier to ambush with

still dunno how come they felt the need to buff carno turn radius after the update 2 incident...

[hollow canyon]

Carno doesn't turn anywhere near as good as it did in update 2

that thing had all its agility just outright better, the current one had only its walking and standing turn rate buffed up compared to the last patch

I'm not sure if it's better or worse than prior to that

[fresh laurel]

didnt say it was anywhere close to update 2 but im just surprised devs really went with carno turn raidus buff

like dont think utah pounce will get dmg increase thanks to how it was back then

[faint igloo]

Im pretty sure the better players said the first time around where carno was just a bigger Utah that they should nerf its momentum. Like make it take longer for carno to stop and accelerat right after a full sprint not nerf its turn speed in general. The problem at that time was that it could drift stop after its prey and almost emidiatly be at top speed again. It wasn't it turn speed it had when walking it was a pure momentum issue. Devs nerfed turn speed at that time.

[fresh laurel]

but thanks to carno walk turn rate it kinda make it even harder to approach without a trade and it could just run and use walk turn to run at you again

[faint igloo]

Still a momentum issue from going from sprint into walk.

[hollow canyon]

How long do the tracks last in the game?

[faint igloo]

That's a hard one. I guess they last around 3-5 mins.

[hollow canyon]

So I've encountered something quite worrisome I think

basically a Carno walked up to me while I was sitting in a bush for roughly ~15 minutes

it walked up straight to me

but it wasn't ESPing

I've heard of some people tinkering with the .ini files to remove certain bits and pieces of foliage and I'm wondering if it wasn't that

I know the guy wasn't ESPing because if he was, I would've died and yet I've managed to escape from him

he also seemingly walked to me from the opposite side than where my tracks would've been

...or perhaps he simply just logged in a moment before and saw me due to foliage still loading in

[faint igloo]

I had that last patch with a pachy. Was in the forest and suddenly got headbutted out of the blue by a patchy thought i just got unlucky and ran my ass through the jungle circling and zigzagging my ass of. Hide in a Bush across the opening and see that patchy B-line towards me 30 seconds after I sat down. Only lost him after I had him retreat becouse of bleed for the second time and finding a cave to hide in. See him run past the entrance a few times looking for me .

My tip ad that time was that he was using a foilage exploit since if he was ESPing he would of found me in the cave

[hollow canyon]

Yea, my thoughts exactly

Not sure if this has been brought to the attention of the devs yet

[winter iris]

hehe well, if you died of starvation it wasn't that easy in the end. Generally speaking I would say that if you know where to grow, then growing a carno, or a utah (particularly utah) is not difficult unitl 50%. After 50% it becomes quite difficult, particularly because you need to hunt for nutrients but you are not big enough to hunt a lot of stuff.

[spare badger]

I died of starvation cause I fell off a cliff and broke my leg and by the time it was healed I was starving

[winter iris]

I agree that something more challenging would make things more fun, but your suggestion isn't really viable unless they increase the AI population a lot. On the other hand I think something should be done to ease a little bit the grow process as herbi

[hollow canyon]

Legs don't heal very long though, it does kind of go against your point if you'd starved just because you broke your leg

[dusky surge]

I ADORE how these balance changes were made in direct response to player complaints and people are shouting “These devs are so bad at balancing!” People got exactly what they asked for lmao.

[sinful cove]

Not really that, but they take pieces from feedback and slap them in to an update. Carno mains sure are happy, but there were a lot of people asking for more indirect changes to fix the previous issues

The devs went with the direct changes and indirect changes

They should really be picking and choosing more rather than making a bunch of changes that dont flow well together and are just overdone in general

[spare badger]

It's not the whole story
I got attacked by pachies afterwards and got my leg broken 2 more times (I wasn't adult so I got knocked over and there were 3)
By the time I got out of that I was starving and couldn't eat cause of the glitch
Basically a perfect storm

[hollow canyon]

What are the locations where you guys typically find Carnos?

I'm looking for some to fight, I've moved across the southern plains from the swamp westwards and haven't found any

I'm by the new river now

[fresh laurel]

Never heard someone say carno needed turn buffs but uh ram charge changes ye

I'm fine with every change except funni carno turn tbh

[dusky surge]

Aken has been saying it since update 4

[fresh laurel]

didnt see ig

a teno kick hitbox buff would be cool ngl

[dusky surge]

To quote, it moves like it’s always stuck in mud

[fresh laurel]

to be fair

charge is what carno relies on

[hollow canyon]

I've been saying that all the time and I stand by that

Carno's standing turn was a joke

no animal should be that bad at turning

[fresh laurel]

i never noticed

[fresh laurel]

yea but for balancing reasons...

[hollow canyon]

for any reason

[fresh laurel]

we dont want rex to be turning fast as utah

[hollow canyon]

This was Carno's old turn rate

not only is that just bad in terms of balancing, it even looks like complete garbage

[fresh laurel]

damn that looks sad

like woah

[hollow canyon]

I mean maybe it should be somewhere between the two

Although I think Carno's turn rate is fine

Pachy and Tenonto just need buffs

[fresh laurel]

ehhhh

[hollow canyon]

Because both got nerfed too hard, Tenonto's nerf was ok but it - again - had to be accompanied by a lower stamina rate of its tailslam

[fresh laurel]

pachy seems pretty good at doing a bone break to get away imo

teno just needs kick hitbox buff

maybe tailslam stam cost to be decreased since it was a nerfed a bit

[hollow canyon]

Idk but just from taking a look at Pachy's turn rate while using ram that seemed way too harsh to me

that's the one thing about it that I'd definitely revert, at the very least partially

[fresh laurel]

I mean pachy could just charge ram and become pretty hard to get behind without getting a trade

[hollow canyon]

Ugh, fair, idk maybe give it a small stamina cost the moment it starts charging its ram or something

The rest of the cast aside from these two are fine

[fresh laurel]

also not sure how dinosaur balance for standing and running works but uh pachy standing that far upright seems a bit weird for it to not get a decrease in agility or speed

while charging

[hollow canyon]

Utah is a different story but I don't want to get hung up on it because I just kind of disagree with the direction where it was taken - then again it's pretty much the only bleeder in the game and we kind of need one

since no other animal makes sense as a bleeder/endurance hunter atm

[fresh laurel]

would prob make it even worst to use tbh

[hollow canyon]

Yes but at the same time balance-wise I think this attack is too easy to avoid now

[fresh laurel]

what direction did you want it?

[hollow canyon]

well it would have its old turn rate

[hollow canyon]

damage dealer, not a bleeder

[fresh laurel]

then you could keep baiting pachy to charge ram to out stam it

[hollow canyon]

I'd have its bite force increased and its pounce deal more damage than it does now at the cost of bleed

[fresh laurel]

I like but uh how far of a dmg buff before it turns into update 2 pounce dmg

[hollow canyon]

Yes, you could do that as a Utah if it lets you

[hollow canyon]

I'd have it at update 2 pounce damage but I'd have the damage ramp up

[fresh laurel]

I mean already rn utah vs pachy is a lot more easier/fair tbh

easier for utah

[hollow canyon]

Idk how this match up works for either of the two but I think Utah should be doing at least pretty well in it now

since Pachy's ram-agility was nerfed so hard

[fresh laurel]

thx to pachy new endlag

utah can now pounce pachy as a punish

and utah kills pachy in 7 alt bites too... so you could make a bad pachy keep spamming instant headbutt

[fresh laurel]

like starts low but goes higher over time?

[hollow canyon]

yea

[fresh laurel]

would be hard for utah to get somewhat high dmg without being bucked off

[hollow canyon]

that + higher biteforce

[fresh laurel]

unless they make it so bucking more than one utah takes longer

[fresh laurel]

im up for 75n base bite

[hollow canyon]

yes, but while the target is bucking the other Utahs can bite it, that's the approach that was used back in ~update 3

Also - bucking uses up stamina

Utahs can cycle and regenerate their stamina, their target not so much

That's just my take - I'd rather have Utah as an endurance hunter that kills via damage not via bleed

but it's fair to leave it the way it is I guess

my only problem is that it makes it kind of a one-trick pony

that is all about pounce which I'm not a fan of

[fresh laurel]

i want that but i would say more people might agree with it when a better bleeder dinosaur comes

[hollow canyon]

Yea... like which one?

[fresh laurel]

lets say giga for the apexes and maybe mono for utah size?

im not sure for mono niche

but i can see it being one hell of a tracker that will bleed you out

[hollow canyon]

Giga is irrelevant, it's not coming any time soon, Mono seems like a really random suggestion idk about it being a bleeder or whatever else

we know nothing about it

[fresh laurel]

not sure what other utah sized dinos are coming soo...

could only really think mono

unless velo pounce is more bleed based than dmg

[hollow canyon]

Idk, if Utah is the only candidate for being a bleeder then I guess it should stay the way it is

it's not what I'm really in favour of but oh well

[fresh laurel]

you could hope for irl utah to be more brawler basesd

[hollow canyon]

Half of the issues with this dinosaur is that pounce is buggy

[fresh laurel]

irl utah would be slower soo a way to fight back and make things back off...

[fresh laurel]

pounce every update breaks in more ways im telling ya

now its phasing through the dinosaur and doing a 2 second pounce only to stop and get endlag

[hollow canyon]

No, I don't think so, it's better than it used to be

[fresh laurel]

im talking bugs

[hollow canyon]

but it still has issues that keep coming up

[fresh laurel]

when it works its pretty good

biggest utah buff tho...

let us be able to tell how low a prey blood pool is

[hollow canyon]

Yes, I know you're talking about bugs, I'm saying that it's less buggy than it used to be in e.g. MT

[fresh laurel]

like darker blood = lower blood pool

brighter means you still gotta keep bleeding em

very dark red means they are pretty much guaranteed to bleed out

[fresh laurel]

we dont talk about MT...

[hollow canyon]

I think 3.75 was also more buggy

[fresh laurel]

same spot where teno become poo

[hollow canyon]

not a single Utah I've seen myself so far seemed to bug out while pouncing

[fresh laurel]

update 3.75 was the giant nerf update?

[hollow canyon]

yes

that's the patch that nerfed everything hard

well, the small stuff anyways

[fresh laurel]

seeing all those utah nerfs almost made me faint ngl

hypsi nerf surprised me hard tbh

[dusky surge]

the bleed compliments the stam drain of bucking quite well imho

[hollow canyon]

true, I agree there which is one of the two reasons why I'm not entirely convinced of my argument

[dusky surge]

less blood = less stam regen. Ends up with an animal that can't escape and can't fight back

[hollow canyon]

the other counterargument is that bleed also helps out with regeneration

Yea, true

I just think it doesn't work well with Utah's bite

idk, perhaps make Utah's bite deal more bleed

[dusky surge]

the bite is a bit weird

[hollow canyon]

e.g. x1.5 or something?

[fresh laurel]

in what way (in your terms)

[dusky surge]

yea, i think pounce is something insane in terms of bleed damage multiplier

[hollow canyon]

because 55 bleed is kind of... irrelevant?

[fresh laurel]

55 bleed?

[hollow canyon]

ehhh

basically the way bleed works in the game

is that it depends on the damage dealt

[fresh laurel]

how much bleed does pounce do per tick (if there is a way to know)

[hollow canyon]

meaning that since the bite deals 55 damage(I presume) it also deals 55 "bleed"

it doesn't mean that it drains 55 points out of your blood pool

[fresh laurel]

yea it doesnt

[hollow canyon]

because that depends on how much you move

[dusky surge]

bleed is weird, but aken is (technically) right about this, just not with exact numbers

[hollow canyon]

but it's my way of expressing just how much "bleeding" it does in a numerical varue

[fresh laurel]

when i get bit from utah i could be running like crazy and blood wont go that low

[hollow canyon]

yea, I'm not saying it does exactly that, just saying more or less how it works

[fresh laurel]

weird...

[hollow canyon]

the bleed of a single bite with x1 multiplier and 55N is... irrelevant

meanwhile pounce with its x(however much) multiplier is a completely different story

[fresh laurel]

bite kinda requires a lot of risk to land on anything bigger than utah and doesnt give enough reward imo

[dusky surge]

pounce has an insane bleed, honestly, utah's bite doing an itty bitty more bleed would compliment it nicely

[hollow canyon]

Yea, perhaps that's the way to go about it

I don't think Utah is the animal in the most dire need of help right now though so this is all just theorycrafting

[fresh laurel]

utah isnt a concern

yet...

at some point it might be best to see how it scales in a bigger ecosystem with apexes and all that

[hollow canyon]

I'd say that the current required changes is to get Tenonto in a somewhat better spot stamina-wise with the tailslam and perhaps buff up Pachy's turn rate while using the ram.

[spare badger]

I find them everywhere northwest, near radish spawns

[hollow canyon]

Regarding Carno I'd like to see this animal be punished more for being not in its environment

[hollow canyon]

Hmmm... I've only seen Utahs in that area

I've had some Carnos in the south east but they all seemingly disappeared by the time I reached adulthood

[spare badger]

I saw a huge megapack the other day with 10+ members

[spare badger]

Carnos function too well in forests, that needs to be tuned down somehow

[hollow canyon]

I'm not at all convinced of Carno functioning well in the forests, I've never had an issue with getting away from them there

Although, I would like it if most animals had the ability to pass obstacles better than Carno could

[spare badger]

I was able to run through a forest suprisingly well, I didn't get caught on a tree for a while

[hollow canyon]

e.g. letting Tenonto, Cerato and all those animals just scale a log or another obstacle

[spare badger]

I haven't played carno since u2 so playing it was a suprise

[dusky surge]

i actually think pachy's turnrate is a cool nerf to it, but i'd buff the ram in other ways to compensate

[hollow canyon]

fair, I think the animal is in a bad spot now, I haven't played it because the moment I saw that turn rate I was just pushed away from it

I generally don't like nerfing turn rates of things

[dusky surge]

i mean, the way the animal stands makes sense for it to have a poor turn

[hollow canyon]

I guess although to me it looks like it's trying to hold a plate atop of its head and makes its best not to drop it

that's just my impression though

[spare badger]

If they simply make fractures consistent then pachy will be in a fine spot

Maybe reduce the stamina cost of a ram if necessary

[hollow canyon]

That could be a neat idea too, I'm wondering what the issue with fractures is though

do they not register at all or do they register on the wrong parts of a body?

Because if it's the latter then we're in trouble however if it's the former then perhaps upping its blunt damage could do the trick?

[spare badger]

I'm honestly not too sure which it is

If we are keeping pachy's bad ram turning (imo we should) 1 fully charged ram should break a leg/body, since it's harder to aim than before

I say keep the bad turning since it makes pachy worse at brawling carno and makes the 'fracture and run' playstyle the better option

[hollow canyon]

1 fully charged ram should absolutely apply a fracture, I agree there

[spare badger]

Carno is the only animal this really applies to, since pachy is faster than all the other carnivores larger than it

[hollow canyon]

I'm just saying - I wouldn't be too sure about that

I still remember Allo's animations

Overall I'd keep all the animals the way they are now and buff Tenonto and Pachy and see where that takes us

[spare badger]

Definitely

[hollow canyon]

Pachy needs to be able to fracture a Carno without dying in the process if played properly

[spare badger]

Isn't pachy only slightly slower than Utah? If so would allo be able to catch it?

[hollow canyon]

More than 1 ram shouldn't be needed if it lands - Carno gets fractured

[hollow canyon]

41.8km/g

Utah is 46.8 I think

Allo's base running speed was iirc 42km/h

and its trot was 28km/h or something along those lines

[spare badger]

I see
So pachy may or may not be faster that allo

[hollow canyon]

either way I think the devs were going the right way with Allo and Rex, we should've had fast trots like those of these two animals

idk what's up with every animal being so slow at trotting in the actual game

[spare badger]

I feel like pachy should be at least a little faster than Allo

[hollow canyon]

I don't disagree at all

[spare badger]

Except teno
Teno's trot is a nice speed

[hollow canyon]

just saying - we don't know exactly how fast those other animals are going to be

Teno's trot is... ok I think?

It's not quite as good as those of T.rex or Allo though

[dusky surge]

allo will likely fall behind in both stamina and turning tho

[hollow canyon]

I believe its stamina pool will be very small

[spare badger]

That is true
Even if Allo is slightly faster pachy would win the battle of attrition and be able to jump up rocks

[dusky surge]

i really hope they decide to give allo a decent trotrate, high sprint speed for size but low stam as a tradeoff. The sprint-burst endurance ambusher can work really well this way

[hollow canyon]

but we will see

^

I feel the same way about this animal tbh

[spare badger]

I like that

[dusky surge]

decent stam regen also. Kind of like legacy allo except without all the awful

If it fucks up the ambush, any smaller animal should just run off to who knows where

While the allo is left behind

For bigger animals, it prefers to use the trot rate to keep chase, like stego

[spare badger]

Would also work with para too, since a para can't exactly chase with poor offense but can escape large packs with its high stamina

[dusky surge]

based on animation previews, the trot will be lunatic

its essentially a jog in the animations lmao

oh, and it should go without saying that allo should have quite a poor swimspeed and swim stam use

[hollow canyon]

oh yea, that animal has no business getting into water

[dusky surge]

like carno, allo should not care for water at all

[spare badger]

Touch water and sucho will tear you apart

Also a good escape for cerato

[dusky surge]

yea, allo has every means to be an interesting animal

it can "deal with carnos", but only if it manages to ambush carnos. A wary carno that can and will run away is basically a lost cause for an allo

[hollow canyon]

Tbh I think that Carno should've come as the last mid tier

it's a very specific animal that is supposed to be good against the small game

releasing it when we have only the small game in the game

[spare badger]

Definitely
Cerato should have come first, followed by bary

[hollow canyon]

and then all the animals that are coming are also small game

was... perhaps not the best?

[hollow canyon]

I was personally hoping for Cerato

when we had that old roadmap with 4 "rosters" that were supposed to be added

I was in favour of roster D - Cerato, Dibble and Ava(I think)

[spare badger]

Og roadmap was good

[hollow canyon]

Galli + Carno +Dryo(?) was the one I wanted the least

well ok, maybe I wanted it more than Sucho/Bary+Deino+Beipi

[spare badger]

*ptera

[hollow canyon]

Ptera wasn't there on the first roadmap

first-first roadmap

that wasn't on trello

[spare badger]

Bary wasn't there in old roadmap iirc

[hollow canyon]

Yea, but

[spare badger]

Oh ic

[hollow canyon]

it was a possibility

[sick void]

[hollow canyon]

the community said that they'd rather have Bary over Sucho cause it's smaller

and Dondi said that we'd get one of those two

[spare badger]

I was referring to the first Trello one

With kentro+herarra with skins
Deino+sucho+beipi+ptera for aquatics
Magy and Cerato with gore and diets
Etc

[spare badger]

Either one would work for our current roster

Cerato and Kentro should have come into U2 over carno and stego

[hollow canyon]

Oh absolutely

[spare badger]

Sucho/bary over deino (preferably bary but sucho would have also worked, just not as well)

Bary and Beipi should.have come in u3
I would take beipi over ptera and Bary over deino

That would be a much better balanced roster
Pachy, Utah, Dryo, Hypsi and Teno are fine

[hollow canyon]

There were reasons why the devs released Deino and Ptera though

they wanted to have the flying and swimming mechanics done

[spare badger]

Carno was far too specialized to add so early

[hollow canyon]

Yea

[spare badger]

Yea ptera can stay
But you can do swimming with Bary, deino wasn't required to do the mechanic

[hollow canyon]

I feel like Carno is alright where it is right now in terms of its stats but just due to the fact that everything is small it's kind of the best pick in the game

[hollow canyon]

yea but the community was screeching about the giant croc for so long...

[spare badger]

Now look what happened it's such a bad playable

[hollow canyon]

I know

[spare badger]

Sad, I hoped deino would be fun

But it's either one shot or useless :(

But hindsight is 20/20 eh?

Optimal roster
U1: Utah, Tenonto
U2: Dryo, Hypsi, Cerato, Kentro
U3: Bary, Beipi, Ptera
U4: Pachy
U5: Troodon
4 tiny tiers, beipi, hypsi, Troodon, Ptera
3 small tiers: Dryo, Utah, Pachy
4 pseudo mid tiers: Bary, Cerato, Teno, Kentro

Imo that would have worked much better

[dusky surge]

i dont see the need for kentro

people only want kentro cause stego got in

[spare badger]

Kentro cute tho

And what I wanted to do was replace current animals with better picks (except beipi I just added it to u3)

[spare badger]

Look at him
You cant say no to that face

[dusky surge]

baby stego is also cute

[spare badger]

Juvies are temporary
Adults are as permanent as you can keep them alive

[fresh laurel]

and baby kentro more cute

profit

[spare badger]

Baby kentro > baby stego

[spare badger]

Shant be like

Let shant shove rexes around

[hollow canyon]

I agree, sort of, I'd rather have diablo than Kentro in the game personally.

[dusky surge]

agreed. It would've also been a far more interesting matchup with carnos and utahs

[hollow canyon]

Yea, precisely

it's one of those smaller herbivores that could actually go toe-to-toe with Carno and tear it apart

[dusky surge]

herbivores

sorry lmao

[hollow canyon]

yea, I read that again and was like

"wait a second... something's not right"

It's probably the fact that I always played Diablo like a carnivore hunting everyone I could see back in legacy

[dusky surge]

diablo is around 1500

so it could get charged by carno and knocekd

[hollow canyon]

Yea, all it has to do is not get charged aside from that it's a ceratopsid meaning that it could turn Carno into minced meat in an actual fight and with Carno's low stamina pool I can absolutely see this fight being in Dibble's favour.

[dusky surge]

yea

dibble should be slow but fuck shit up in front of it and have great endurance

[ripe furnace]

2 small

[dusky surge]

what?

lmao

are you saying dibble is too small for the game?

[fresh laurel]

but it worked in legacy...

dunno how its too small

[spare badger]

Dibble would give Utah something to actually hunt

[spare badger]

No way
Dibble is ~1.5t and has a literal shield on its face it's perfectly fine

Just don't get charged and youre good

[spare badger]

I think he's saying it's too small to best carno but I'm not sure

[spare badger]

It's been downsized

[fresh laurel]

rip

[spare badger]

Not by that much

But it's not going to murder allos

[fresh laurel]

good

[wise obsidian]

Why is that image so crispy

[mental roost]

Just a little hungry is all.

[spare badger]

The quality is shit when I'm on mobile

[azure crescent]

i wish ava was the same size it was irl

[dim radish]

Could you fry the image a lil more? Its not deep fried enough

[teal pecan]

@alpine plover the reason for carno overpopulation isn't that it's op, it's just that now when pachy isn't so overtuned and is actually balanced ppl went back to the apex of the game which is carno

it's way better balanced now, having a fair fight with teno 1v1 and not getting crushed by pachy's as much even tho they still can escape it fairly easily (1 on 1)

and I do realize that 1 on 1 does not matter as much since ppl are most often in groups

[spare badger]

Mobile bad

[alpine plover]

hmm

yeah that is a fair point, but like carno was well balanced in the last version

or has carno actually undergone balance changes even?

either way if there were any made I would argue they are unnecessary

[spare badger]

They made it better at turning
Which unfortunately also made it better at drifting

[hollow canyon]

Wait, it made it better at drifting?

I'm pretty sure these are two separate things and the drift length is a separate things that they change.

[spare badger]

Yea
I think the walking change made it better
I remember watching many videos of people saying carno drift was better
I don't know myself cause I don't play carno

[hollow canyon]

Based on what I've seen it's exactly the same

There's 0 reason why that would make it better

[spare badger]

Not really sure how it works I just hear people saying drift is better

I really hope it isn't it was fine before

[spare badger]

If they did change it it should be reverted
If it's the same carno needs no changes

The only changes animals need right now are pachy and Tenonto
Pachy needs more reliable fracture
And Tenonto needs less stam drain on slam and a better kick hitbox

[teal pecan]

they made it not turn like a bus and made charge turnning better

well it still turns like a bus, it's just a little better now

[wintry mountain]

Its run turn is still bus like