balance-feedback-discussion

[hot lintel]

My argument was never that they can kill mids it was that they can't die to them but I guess reading is hard

Also my point was never to bloat the low tiers' hp's but to reduce the apexes'

[hollow canyon]

What are the mids that you're talking about?

I know exactly what your argument was and it is terrible

Carnotaurus isn't meant to be hunting the bigstuff

Tenonto shouldn't be doing that either

The only animal that is justified in going after these two is Utah and it can do it

[hot lintel]

It's the only mid tier carnivore we have now so why not make it able to kill Stegos at least in 4v1's

[hollow canyon]

Because it's not meant to do that

I think you have a misconception about how the development of this game works

[hot lintel]

Only having a tiny chicken (Utah) as the only apex hunter for years to come is just stupid

[hollow canyon]

Perhaps you haven't followed Evrima long enough

The devs do not care about how the game is right now

[hot lintel]

Which is fucking stupid

[hollow canyon]

they only care about what it is meant to be, this should be really clear based on their decisions over the past year or so

[hot lintel]

Everyone wants the game to be balanced now not in half a decade

[hollow canyon]

They left the main branch of Evrima dead for 4 months straight in an outright unplayable state

because they are fine with people not playing Evrima in its current state

they only care about what the game is supposed to be like in the future and are completely focused on getting to that future asap

[hot lintel]

Their customers are not fine with that

[hollow canyon]

I wasn't fine with it either but it is what it is

[hot lintel]

asap you say? Doesn't seem like it since they're focusing on skins and mating dances when those things aren't gonna help the game reach its end point

[hollow canyon]

I agree that these two are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned but

the issue is that they are core mechanics of the game

as long as these core mechanics, which are outlined on the roadmap going up to update 9, are not in the game

Evrima will be in a bad state

each one of these things, or at the very least the ones up to update ~7/8 can screw the game over at any time

messing with optimisation and other stuff

if those are finally implemented

and they reach update 9

[wise sparrow]

I mean the will as many more important systems may rely on nesting. Skins would get passed down via nesting. And its part of the gameplay loop

[hot lintel]

I will still never agree that we should wait 3 years until we get something that can actually hunt stegos

[hollow canyon]

I think Utahs and Dilos should probably be capable of doing that... or idk tell the devs to drop the whole "only smalls" approach and tell them to add some apex carnivore or w/e

[hot lintel]

And no Utah doesn't suffice cause most Utah players are braindead and can't take on a single Stego in a mega pack if their lives depended on it

[hollow canyon]

I'm absolutely baffled about the idea that adding only small animals is at all a good idea

[hot lintel]

And adding another apex that can do that rn won't fix it either

[hollow canyon]

this is literally like asking for trouble in the future

[hot lintel]

Depends on what you mean by only smalls

[hollow canyon]

they should establish how interactions between smalls, mids and apexes should work and what the gameplay loop of those animals should be, trying to build up an ecosystem the way they are doing now is just... bad

[hollow canyon]

animals up to Carno's size

well, Carno is a "mid tier"

[hot lintel]

I don't think adding anything above Allo size rn would be good but I wouldn't consider those dinos below Allo size smalls

[hollow canyon]

but it's the smallest one

In general they should've gone with what I think their old-old roster was supposed to be for carnivores

e.g. Utah+Carno+Rex

you have three animals in different weight classes that play differently to one another

and then you build up from that

[hot lintel]

The only dinos we should even focus on rn are the ones on the roadmap, and the roadmap doesn't contain a lot of dinos that could hunt apexes besides Dilos

[hollow canyon]

Then don't expect many things to hunt apexes I guess

[hot lintel]

Which is why I'm asking to drop this whole "putting every dinosaur in a box" thing for now and make things that shouldn't normally hunt apexes able to do it for the time being

If not Carno then at least Cerato should be able to do it

In groups of course but it should still be able to do it

[hollow canyon]

I mean... I don't think that the likes of Carno/Cerato should be hunting Stego in the game when it works as intended but for now everything goes in Evrima as far as I'm concerned

[alpine plover]

I think the best thing to do in situations like these is just simply not playing the isle at all, it’s in such a horrible mind boggling state I would rather just wait until something interesting comes out like allo or giga

playing this game while waiting for it to actually get good is an awful idea, game is simply too frustrating

Guess we gotta wait a couple years for the game to not be dogshit, fine by me as long as we get some interesting playables

[hollow canyon]

I doubt they're going to go for it but

if they did w/e I personally find the game borderline unplayable atm

[hollow canyon]

Agreed with the first line

I just stopped playing this game lately

[hot lintel]

I still manage to find fun in the game rn without my favorite big dino being in the game

[alpine plover]

It’s just not fun, there is absolutely nothing fun about getting ganked by 14 billion herbivores as a single utah

think the worst of it is yknow

Diets and map layout

[hollow canyon]

I've been finding fun in it for a year and a half, it's not the roster that's the problem

[hot lintel]

I didn't say nesting is not a good feature I just said adding useless bs onto it like mating dances is just a waste of time

[hollow canyon]

although I think the roster is bad

it's the game itself that is just... awful

[alpine plover]

Update 2 was fun, even if it wasn’t as visually stunning

[hollow canyon]

Agreed but when I said that I got a response that apparently they are important for... whatever reason

The diets are probably the biggest issue with this game tbh

The core concept behind this mechanic is just atrocious

[hot lintel]

Update 2 was fun but I don't see how it was more fun than current Isle besides that it was better optimized

[hollow canyon]

No diets

that's for starters

[alpine plover]

(the map)

[hot lintel]

Even with the shitty frames, when the fps is good I find it way more fun than any previous update

[hollow canyon]

that too

[hot lintel]

What's so wrong with diets?

[alpine plover]

lmao

[hot lintel]

It made herbivores a lot more fun for me to play and carnivores are largely unaffected by it cause for half your growth you don't have it

And once you do have it you'll still go for another 25% growth with perfect diet from your juvie stage

I just don't see what's so bad about diets

[hollow canyon]

A/ herbivores are the same thing where I just sit down and afk for however long

[wise sparrow]

The fact that gore wasn't added alongside diets astonishes me

[hollow canyon]

They are much easier to grow than carnivores overall

[hot lintel]

nope

[hollow canyon]

B/ carnivores get to ignore diets for 50% of their growth - it's a symptom of diets being awful

[hot lintel]

All herbie juvies are much slower and need to actually find their diets while carni juvies don't

[hollow canyon]

Well depends - Tenonto is the easiest animal to grow, Pachy is hot garbage as juvie either intentionally or because the devs haven't finished it

[alpine plover]

Tenonto is too easy to grow

[hot lintel]

As a carnivore you spawn in, scavenge once and you're on perfect diet, on herbivores you'll spend even 20 minues finding all of them

[hollow canyon]

I'm not sure at this point, Punch when he was initially asked about juv Pachy during MT stated that it was so slow only because it didn't yet have the animations for its juvenile

[alpine plover]

(and they still aren’t finished)

[hollow canyon]

but then he said that those are already in the game when I asked him about it ~2 weeks ago

Idk which one it is but either they are confused about what the state of this animal actually is

or they intentionally made it slow for no good reason

[alpine plover]

the devs don’t really play the game so I guess that makes sense

let alone look at feedback

[hot lintel]

I don't care about juvie Pachy's animations, calling the dinosaur unfinished because it doesn't have an animation that would take like 10 minutes to set up and makes no difference in the end is stupid and misleading

Pachy is very much complete with or without juvie animtions, it just needs a speed buff

[hollow canyon]

It's not though, you're complaining about it being slow - I'm giving you the reason for why it was said to be so slow when people asked for a buff to its speed back during the MT

[hot lintel]

It can easily be made faster with no new animation, therefore it's not incomplete, it's just underpowered

Juvie Utah had infinitely better speed and it had the same animation it has now

[hollow canyon]

Should've said that to the devs when they were justifying it being slower than Stego

Juvie Utah had the dedicated juvie animations from the start of Evrima

[hot lintel]

It doesn't make a difference besides making the run look kinda goofy but who gives a shit when that's the price to pay for more fun and balanced juvie gameplay

[alpine plover]

when the 4 kg baby pachy goes slower than the 100+ kg baby stego

[hot lintel]

I meant it had way better speed in the past than it has now and it had the same animation it has now

Therefore juvie Pachy can also be faster

[hollow canyon]

Yes, because you can tinker with the speed to a certain extent before it breaks the animation

I'm also pretty sure juv Pachy can be made faster

my bet is it could run at a speed of 20km/h without breaking but that's just my estimate

also - Punch hasn't responded to me asking about a buff to it so

idk maybe they want it to be this slow for whatever reason

As for why diets are awful - they carry on with the same issue that this game has always had

[hot lintel]

They've never grown a Pachy themselves if they think the juvie stage is ok

[hollow canyon]

your best default state is being afk in a bush and not participating in the game

Yea, idk juvie Pachy is hot garbage and needs some buffs, like really badly

[alpine plover]

Well, they don’t even play the game so they wouldn’t know

[hot lintel]

That should never be completely erased tho, you should never be forced to be active 100%

[alpine plover]

I guess they automatically assume everything’s fine? Idk

[hot lintel]

The afk growth should be made harder but not impossible

[hollow canyon]

No lol

[hot lintel]

And it can be made harder by fixing plant spawns

[hollow canyon]

You should always, always be encouraged to move around and do stuff

rather than sit in a bush watching netflix

[hot lintel]

I disagree

As a 20km'h juvie you shouldn't be forced to never hide for at least 10 minutes at a time

[hollow canyon]

I mean... yea one of my friends said he actually prefers sitting in a bush watching stream than growing and I can see the point there

[hot lintel]

Cause it's literally your best bet for survival rather than always being forced to be out in the open when Carnos exist

[hollow canyon]

The juvenile gameplay is just so atrocious that it makes me not want to play the game

[hot lintel]

I can see that argument for some of the juvies but not in general

[hollow canyon]

The good state of things is when I'm sitting in a bush that's just... absolutely inane

[hot lintel]

For example both juvie Utah and Carno can do stuff pretty decently cause they're not slow as shit

[hollow canyon]

Yea but they're still better off being afk because if they run into a larger juvie or a subadult animal they can just die

[hot lintel]

And for apexes you literally want the juvie stage to be painful cause that's how you prevent people from always ever playing apexes

[spare badger]

If they made forests better maybe playing juvies would be a little more fun...

[hollow canyon]

I mean the juvie stage is painful in general

[hot lintel]

That's... that's how survival works

So you want juvies to just be 100% safe all the time?

[hollow canyon]

That might be the issue with this game tbh

[hollow canyon]

No, I want them to be threatened and active all the time

[deep vine]

i think he is saying there is nothing but to run and socialize as a juvie, i can agree more small AI would increase the fun of it. Like rabbits and such. So you are not just growing in a bush

[hollow canyon]

So I started playing Path of Titans 3 days ago

that game does it... just way better

I haven't been afk a single time in that game

during my whole time playing it

[hot lintel]

I've played it a lot and don't really see how that's the case, the juvies there suck ass just as much

[hollow canyon]

No, they don't?

[hot lintel]

Yes because it gives you boring ass artificial quests lol

[sinful cove]

Rabbits wont solve the atrocious nightmare that is playing a snailpace herbi juvie. Its super easy to grow a carni without afking because you can actually escape if something sees you

[hollow canyon]

That's for starters

secondly - even if they die

they don't lose their whole progress

[hot lintel]

The game forces you to collect sticks just so you can grow

[hollow canyon]

it's much better to move there and remain active than to sit back and wait for stuff

I do admit the quests there are... kind of silly

but it's not about the quests themselves

it's about what doing them does to the game - it causes interactions to happened

[hot lintel]

That's kinda why perks are an idea for The Isle, they can motivate you to go do stuff even while you're a juvie to earn perks, it just doesn't force you to do it just to grow

[hollow canyon]

When multiple people get into the same area to do those quests someone either ends up moving to avoid conflict or people die, both options are vastly superior to everyone sitting in bushes avoiding interaction

[hot lintel]

Which is the problem with PoT's growth, you just don't grow unless you're carrying some stupid mushroom

[hollow canyon]

I do think the quests are a bit... questionable and there should probably be some passive growth but

the idea of speeding it up for doing stuff out there in the world is really, really good and does wonders for the game

[hot lintel]

There is passive growth on community servers but it sucks that you have to play on unofficials just to have not shitty growth

[hollow canyon]

I'm playing on officials atm btw

Haven't tried the community servers yet

I'm fine with not having passive growth, I think it should be there but not having it isn't awful at all since I'm actually playing the game and things are happening while I'm growing

[hot lintel]

PoT's growth is also just unreasonably long which is another issue, small chickens still take hours to grow

[hollow canyon]

the penalty for dying is much smaller than in Evrima therefore people want to do stuff and play the game

I wouldn't design the growth system the way PoT did it

but it's definitely better than TI's growth

which stands completely oppose to what video games are supposed to be - "fun"

[hot lintel]

I still think a lot of juvie interactions canbe fun in The Isle

[hollow canyon]

yes, they can

the issue is that the risk compared to reward makes those interaction absolutely stupid

[hot lintel]

The growth can use some changes but I wouldn't call it bad and it's definitely the best it's ever been in The Isle, with juvie vs juvie fights actually being fun

[hollow canyon]

I honestly don't know how this can be remedied because The Isle wants to be the gritty survival horror or whatever

Juvie vs Juvie yea, sure they are fun

idk if the most fun they've ever been, maybe? To me they are pretty much the same they always have been

[hot lintel]

Juvie Utah and Carno are at least still very capable of escaping stuff bigger than themselves, I've done it multiple times because of how fast and agile they are

[hollow canyon]

I haven't noticed much difference between the fights now, in update 2 or what not, hell I found juvie fights in the legacy fun the issue is - they aren't worth getting into

unless you're a fresh spawn

If you're already growing/have food you just want to sit back and wait

which is the reason why the growth in this game is just bad, the fact that the game encourages me not to play is a pretty big problem I'd say

[hot lintel]

It shouldn;t force you to be constantly throwing yourself in harm's way while you're a small baby, the way PoT's growth does

[hollow canyon]

I disagree, I also haven't been dying much in PoT at all

I think I've died... once so far?

[hot lintel]

PoT growth only works because you don't lose much when dying, if you did it would probably be the worst growth in any game (I still think it already is)

[hollow canyon]

the not losing much when dying is already a big reason why it's better than in TI - you are actually free to do stuff while growing because if you die you don't lose all your progress

And even then I wasn't exactly dying there much

I've died once as a juvenile on one dinosaur

[hot lintel]

How would it be good for a juvie Stego to never be able to sit down for at least 10 minutes to avoid danger?

[hollow canyon]

I mean you can sit down for 10 minutes to avoid danger in PoT I'm pretty sure

[hot lintel]

It also leads to doing stupid shit cause you don't care about dying, which I always do in PoT and it's what The Isle is actively striving against

[hollow canyon]

I'm really glad I've never HAD to do that

[hot lintel]

Like, I'm never afraid of dying in PoT, which is why I charge at 2 Allos as a single Cerato

In The Isle there is great fear of dying and that's a lot better imo than never caring about dying

[hollow canyon]

Not really

[hot lintel]

Yes and you grow for a total of 0% while doing that

[hollow canyon]

I've been dying a tonne in TI pretty much on purpose dying stuff

but always as an adult

[hot lintel]

Which means you're in the minority because most people are afraid of dying in The Isle

While that's just not a concept in PoT

[hollow canyon]

I mean, I've done dumb stuff as a subadult too but realistically - if you want to play using meta you will just sit back and afkin a bush

[hollow canyon]

That's probably because of the time spent in the game tbh

Losing my first apex or whatever other animal in TI was a pretty big hit

after I've played the game for however many hundreds of hours it's just w/e

[hot lintel]

That's why I think carnivores should start having a diet since 25% and not 50%

[hollow canyon]

You don't seriously think I'm doing that just as carnivores do you?

Matter of fact I'm far more likely to do that with a herbivore

on update 3 I'd just mass grow Tenontos and run them at the first thing I could see

[hot lintel]

Cause by 50% you've already got enough nutrients to grow to full without needing to eat your diet again

[hollow canyon]

that works only on Utah and Pteranodon

Carno and Deino can't do that

[hot lintel]

I have no idea what you're even trying to say here cause I was referring to how afk growing on carnivores could be made harder but ok

[hollow canyon]

I don't think afk growing carnivores is that much of a thing on the current patch, it's kind of still there but it's nowhere near as bad as herbivore afk growing

I was relatively active when i was growing a Carno

Tenonto? Afk 80% of the time

[hot lintel]

With Carno you're still reaching at least 75% with the nutrients from juvie stage at which point you're good to go

[hot lintel]

That doesn;t change the fact that a lot of people still do it, what one person does means nothing

[hollow canyon]

Either way the point is that the moment you get food you can kind of afk on each animal in this game I'm not sure if that's the smartest thing to do on carnivores right now

Unless you have very reliable AI spawns

[hot lintel]

It's only so easy to do that on herbivores because a lot of the time you have all 3 nutrients in one spot

[hollow canyon]

Idk I wouldn't try that if you can't get food at around 40-50% and you end up growing past 50% without stockpiling nutrients you will screw yourselves over

[hot lintel]

Which is stupid and has to change

They had a good idea before, where every herbivore would find 2 nutrients in one area of the map and the last one in a completely different spot, so they had to move around to find the final one

[hollow canyon]

in general what you'd want to do in that case is go and stockpile on that one nutrient and then eat the tiniest bits of the other two sitting in the area where those two are

there are ways to game the diet system in Evrima

[hot lintel]

Even then I don't think afk growth is as bad as you make it out to be because there's a lot of people who just don't do it, afk growing is boring af and so a lot of people are active

[hollow canyon]

it's just badly designed in my opinion

I guess it depends on what you mean when you say it is boring

[hot lintel]

Which is why I keep seeing a lot of smaller size animals all the time when you'd expect them to be afk growing

[hollow canyon]

I for one do other stuff while afk growing

I just leave the game running and do some work/studying or even play another game

[hot lintel]

That wouldn;t work if they tweaked the decay rates cause rn they're a bit too slow

Especially on Stego

[hollow canyon]

oh gods, no, they should absolutely not be increasing the decay rates lol, they literally just slowed them down for a good reason

have you played the game during the early MT when they were faster?

[hot lintel]

No no, they didn;t slow them down, they made the decay almost nonexistent

[hollow canyon]

the decay is definitely existent

[hot lintel]

Stego legit doesn't need to eat another nutrient for over an hour once it filled up on one

[hollow canyon]

and yes they did slow it down

do you know why they did that?

[hot lintel]

You can still increase the decay without having it at the level of the mechanic test but better than it is now

[hollow canyon]

That is a very, very small window

[hot lintel]

So you can't just stock on one plant and then never eat it again until you're subadult

[hollow canyon]

you will still be able to do that, if you decrease it to the point where you can't do that you will break the mechanic again

I mean there's a way of doing that tbh

without breaking it but it would requires some changes that most of the community wouldn't like

you'd need to increase the hunger drain

[hot lintel]

You literally force the Stego to go eat its nutrient more often cause it decays faster, aka it makes it more active which is the exact thing you were asking for, how the fuck does that not fix the issue?

[hollow canyon]

and we already have extremely fast hunger drains in this game when compared to any point in this game's history

[hollow canyon]

It fixes the issue but creates a situation where up keeping the diet is outright impossible in a long run

Why? Because nutrients have to go down slower than hunger does

or otherwise you will eventually run into a situation where your animal has the food and therefore can't eat but has no nutrients

[hot lintel]

They already go down like twice as slow as the hunger which is way too slow imo

[hollow canyon]

That's really not been my impression last I've played the game

they were going down slower than hunger but it didn't seem like it was much of a difference

[hot lintel]

It's definitely my impression

[hollow canyon]

weird, would have to test it but tbh I can't really be bothered to run this game on this update

[hot lintel]

Especially when growing Stego

[hollow canyon]

w/e they do with it I hope it works out

[hollow canyon]

I never grow Stegos, not sure if it matters since I think nutrients drain at the same rate for all the creatures but

[hot lintel]

But even on Pachy, if I swallow a melon whole as a sub I don't need that thing again for hours

[hollow canyon]

I haven't played this animal since it came out in what was it? December 2020?

[hot lintel]

They don't

[hollow canyon]

Oh, good to know

[hot lintel]

yeah

[hollow canyon]

well I guess maybe Stego specifically needs a nerf there then

[mild basin]

Whp gives a sh1t, games preety much unplayable anyway

[hollow canyon]

I haven't noticed such issues on Tenonto and Utah though

[mild basin]

🤡

[hollow canyon]

ikr

[hot lintel]

I legit ate marigold upon spawning and never needed it again until I was a sub

[hollow canyon]

that's why I'm saying that I'm hoping that whatever they do with this mechanic ends up working but

[hot lintel]

And that is just fucked up and would definitely be fixed with faster decay

[hollow canyon]

as it is the game's just not worth playing at all

[mild basin]

Like it did in the past?

[mild basin]

Would make herbis mihrate and not cluster in one spot where u cant attack them cuz the game gonn sh1t itself and drop to 2 fps from 40 yeet

[hot lintel]

The problem with Teno is that radish is so inconsistent with where it spawns that when you do eventually find it you just sit next to it so you don't have to go through the pain of finding it again

[hollow canyon]

True

Well, that's not what I did - I just stockpiled radish and moved on to the other two

[hot lintel]

The solution would be to drop the "all land biomes" bullshit on radish and make it spawn in specific places, preferably away from rivers and swamps so Tenos actually have to move away to find it so they don't have all 3 nutrients in one spot

[spare badger]

I want an actual arid biome so diets can actually have a proper place

[placid reef]

@hot lintel wait people actually suggested to make bary/sucho coastal animals?

[hot lintel]

I haven't seen the actual suggestion but someone told me they saw it once lol

[placid reef]

bruh... like the most every semi aquatic needs is more variety in how deep the water is, not going to the fucking coast lol

[hot lintel]

Which like, I'm not against the idea of Bary or Sucho functioning well on the beach but forcing them to only be there is beyond stupid

Yeah, could the solution be to just make Sucho and Bary better sprinters on land than Spino so if a Spino tried to kill them they can simply run away? Nope, sentence them to costal niche

[placid reef]

also, imo, for diets (as this was one reason for their implementation, to move players around), 1 nutrient is in the best biome for them (lets take teno so swamp/river), the 2nd is in a medium security so forests and the last one with the highest risk so plains for ex and so on for every dino, it forces them to move and for the best time saving you have to take a risk

[barren oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-kaperoo-gif-23826254

[placid reef]

if sucho aint faster than spino on land im gonna cry, bary def will as more a land and water hunter than just sit and wait for fish

[barren oracle]

I want bary

[hot lintel]

I would hope they make Bary a competent land hunter

And not just smaller Sucho that eats fish the whole time

[placid reef]

same, like he would be oh no fish or small water stuff here, guess im hunting a dryo now

make bary and kinda austro the transition from land to water hunters

[barren oracle]

Bad time trio, bary carno and cera

[hollow canyon]

For what it's worth regarding the forests being unplayable in the current game - the devs did say they will be addressing that

at least Filipe acknowledged that they are bad atm and need changes last I've seen him speak in chat so hopefully they do improve on the map in the future

[barren oracle]

they better do it soon

im actually so bored of evrima

oasis just ruins it for me

[spare badger]

All I can do is walk around and murder things until a megapack turns up and murders me

[fresh laurel]

Utah game play

1. Find pack
2. Kill a hypsi
3. Have a mega herd kill you for it

[spare badger]

Tenonto gameplay

1. Eat plant
2. Kill carnos
3. Get killed by 10 carnos

[sinful cove]

Pachy gameplay

1. afk with a megaherd at oasis until adult
2. kill utahs and break a carnos leg
3. get killed by 4 other pachies

[fresh laurel]

Deino gameplay

1. Eat fish until full grown
2. Become land boi because everyone goes to oasis or shallows
3. Die to stego

[wise sparrow]

Hypsi gameplay

1. Spawn

[fresh laurel]

Dryo gameplay
1.
2.
3.

[sinful cove]

Deino gameplay

1. Eat fish
5. Die

[fresh laurel]

Carno gameplay

1. Grow
2. Fight teno
3. Get stun locked

[sinful cove]

Ptera gameplay

1. Spawn
2. Spam 1 call
3. Spam 1 call

[fresh laurel]

Stego gameplay

1. Grow
2. Become god
3. Kill everything

[alpine plover]

Is rex out yet

[spare badger]

I feel like nobody understands what a stun lock actually is...

[sinful cove]

tenonto doesnt even stun lock, pachy can though, or could because idk if its still doing it

[fresh laurel]

its exaggerated

smh

[spare badger]

A stun lock is when you are repeatedly stunned and can't do anything
Like ice climbers wobbling in smash bros melee

[sinful cove]

When i knocked a dryo over on repeat while it had no chance to react when i was a small pachy

[fresh laurel]

i know that bud

my exaggeration ruined the chain bruh

[spare badger]

Unfortunately half the server doesn't lmao

[fresh laurel]

smh

though ik pachy can stun lock

[spare badger]

*due to a bug

[fresh laurel]

that will get fixed in update 5 which will take a while

but i cant even confirm if its getting patched in update 5 soo...

[crimson dune]

@hot lintel cera is going to be agile, that is why it is going to be better in the forest

[frosty heron]

200% accurate

[crimson dune]

Ptera doesnt have to worry about others, If you play ptera to fight other dinos you are dumb

[sinful cove]

You aren’t even dumb if you use ptera to fight because if you die you lose virtually nothing, ptera grows very fast and is viable to become a career nuisance at as young as 20% growth

[crimson dune]

@alpine plover your suggestion will get a lot of crosses cause herbi mains can let carnis have possibilities to take down herbis, herbis have to be much better

[alpine plover]

Wut?????

[sinful cove]

The strawmanning here looks salty if anything , the feedback isnt even Xed and isnt very focused about combat either

The broken ass tracking system does need a fix though

[alpine plover]

You literally cannot escape a carnivore who tracks you

Only possible option is just burn your stamina, get as far away as possible, safelog and hope you don’t get found

[fresh laurel]

crouch

go into forest...

[alpine plover]

Doesn’t stop people from finding your location

[fresh laurel]

and crouch near a bush

[alpine plover]

I believe crouch still makes footprints

[fresh laurel]

doesnt

[wise sparrow]

Teno.

[fresh laurel]

who can fight off carno

[wise sparrow]

1v3

[fresh laurel]

then get a herd

[wise sparrow]

Ah yes

We are going into bob territory now

You are unviable without a herd in certain situations

Fun gameplay

[fresh laurel]

idk how you wanna expect a solo teno to survive 3 carnos

though i do think 4 legged dinos should have a crouch of their own

[wise sparrow]

Normally you would duck into a forest and hide. With current tracking its impossible

[fresh laurel]

old tracking still enabled that kinda

cus funny glow

[wise sparrow]

Tracking has always been just

1. Hit Q
2. Get a direct path to prey that cant hide their tracks

[fresh laurel]

to be fair you can lose track of prey if they stop making more tracks

but bleed turns you into gps

[wise sparrow]

...and how is an animal that cant crouch gonna do that?

[fresh laurel]

you go to forest

[wise sparrow]

Then get tracked down cause no crouch

[fresh laurel]

then you hide in forest

lots of bush

[crimson dune]

people never like suggestions about buffing carno

[wise sparrow]

Well do you say things like "carno needs a tad more stam and a counter to stun locking."

Or do you say shit like "buff carno bit stam turn rate etc and nerf all the herbivores"

[crimson dune]

i only say carno needs more stam

[wise sparrow]

How much more stam?

Salty specified it only needed a bit more, but still less than U3 carno

[alpine plover]

I just don’t wanna have to stop every 15ish seconds

[hollow canyon]

I don't think Carno needs more stam tbh, it needs better acceleration and better walking/standing turn rate

[alpine plover]

Hard to conserve stamina when it’s almost non existent

Turn rate is fine

[hollow canyon]

The counter to Carno should be making it go out of stamina

Turn rate is not fine, the animal moves like it's stuck in goo

[alpine plover]

Carnos weakness is not being able to turn quickly

[wise sparrow]

Yea carno should have a mediocre turn rate while walking but dogshit while running

[hollow canyon]

The running turn rate is absolutely fine, it's the walking/standing turn that needs a buff

[alpine plover]

I’ll give it that yeah

Walking turn needs to be better

[hollow canyon]

That's just way too slow

This is how it turns atm

Like look at it

[crimson dune]

i dont know, 20/15 secs more of stam?

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't even look good, it makes it seem like this animal is taking effort to turn around

[alpine plover]

I would give Carno 15 more seconds of stamina and change if it seems like too much

[hollow canyon]

I think its stamina is alright

It has what... 60 seconds or so?

You should be able to counter Carno by making it run out of stam imo

[alpine plover]

And then not be able to fight back due to bad turning

Can’t have both bad takes

One or the other

[wise sparrow]

Ye just juke it out and run circles until its exhausted

[hollow canyon]

^ That should be one way to do it

[alpine plover]

Either bad stamina and normal turning, or good stamina and bad turning

[hollow canyon]

but that should be risky

[wise sparrow]

Sharp sudden turns make carno cry

[hollow canyon]

imo bad stamina and normal turning is fine

[wise sparrow]

If a carno calls your bluff on a juke tho.... it ain't gonna be fun

[alpine plover]

But as a creature Carno is known for bad turning, so it only makes sense to give it bad turning in turn for more stamina just not too much

[hollow canyon]

Carno is known for bad turning while running

Abelisaurids in general turned pretty well

[alpine plover]

Yes not for dogshit stamina

[hollow canyon]

Well idk anything about its stamina tbh

I don't think there were any studies about it

it having bad stam is fine imo

it's all the other stuff on top of that that's the problem

[crimson dune]

carno has to use charge and already uses a lot stam for that, it should have more stam for following

[hollow canyon]

you can't have:

1. bad stamina
2. bad turn rate
3. bad acceleration

all balanced out by just having good speed

[alpine plover]

Yet it has all three

[hollow canyon]

it technically also has a subpar damage output

175 dmg compared to what... 350 on Tenonto's tail?

[alpine plover]

Good speed means nothing with a bad scent system and you run out of stamina so fast it’s easy for others to catch up

[hollow canyon]

200 on kick and 125 on clawswipe?

Hell Tenonto facetanks a Carno using clawswipes atm

[wise sparrow]

Granted tenos slam is supposed to be a hard hitter and is stationary and takes a fair bit of stamina

[crimson dune]

the problem is carnos perfect prey in the game is dryo and no one plays it

[hollow canyon]

No, lol, Carno can't even touch a Dryo

[alpine plover]

And body’s give little to no food

[hollow canyon]

If you die to a Carno while playing a Dryo just l2p

that's a serious skill issue right there

[wise sparrow]

No way!?
That's... questionable

[crimson dune]

carno is a small dino hunter

[alpine plover]

Utah barely fills 1/4 of its food

[hollow canyon]

Utah is a small, Pachy is small, Tenonto aint a giant either

[alpine plover]

Small game hunter for the biggest hunger dude

[crimson dune]

carno sucks, the only thing why people pays it is because is the only large carnivore

[alpine plover]

Feed the big hungry man crumbs

[hollow canyon]

those make up the menu for Carno

[wise sparrow]

Carno is just a shitty hypo rn. It needs food constantly and cant fight enough to fill itself

[hollow canyon]

Dryo is way too small and way too agile for Carno

[alpine plover]

Rn Carno is just unbalanced hypo

[crimson dune]

utah bleeds you, you cant use speed, pachy breaks you leg you cant use speed

[alpine plover]

Teno tail slams you, you can’t move

[hollow canyon]

I'm aware that Carno is bad right now, I'm just saying that Dryo isn't what Carno should be hunting

that thing is just too small, it's a snack at best

[wise sparrow]

Carno is a monster if you can ambush with it, but its hunger time is way to punishing

[alpine plover]

Tenanto, Utah and pachy are the anti Dino’s rn

[alpine plover]

Which is fine as long as bodys give good values

[hollow canyon]

idk about that, if you're a Tenonto you can still clap a Carno even if it ambushed you

[wise sparrow]

That's just stuns needing a revamp altogether

[crimson dune]

then what, fucking AI

[hollow canyon]

I've had a situation where I was in game and was typing on discord while Carno charged me - still clapped it afterwards

[crimson dune]

thats the other big problem, i cant chill a damn second

[alpine plover]

Dryo is like, the smallest thing it should hunt and even then dryo should fill about 1/4 of its food

[hollow canyon]

Utah and Pachy, the fact that Carno performs badly vs them is the problem

in general - Carno should be that animal that's generally played solo or in very small groups, at most pairs

it should have clear cut weaknesses and strengths

it should be dangerous when out in the open to animals smaller than itself

[alpine plover]

Yes but it’s forced to group in high numbers when it has no good prey options besides solo Utahs and pachys

[hollow canyon]

it shouldn't pose a threat to bigger animals though

[hollow canyon]

I know, the balance right now is... questionable to put it mildly

there's a lot of issues that could be solved just by tinkering with the values in the game

[wise sparrow]

A dibble should laugh at a carno trying to fight it honestly

[crimson dune]

intelligent people that plays carno is not asking for it to be able to hunt large prey

[alpine plover]

Carno went from too good to too bad, Utah is fine, Teno needs tweaking, Pachy needs damage nerf

[wise sparrow]

Hell. Kentro will shit on that fucker

[alpine plover]

Stego is just broken, Deino is fine

[wise sparrow]

Carno is gonna be quite a specialist after the game is done (never)

[alpine plover]

Carno should specialize in hunting smaller game like Pachy and Utah

Which it used to, the other Dino’s just sucked

Adding Cerato and Gali might help with Carnos general food options

[crimson dune]

pachy breaks bones with so eas I'm afraid about anky

[alpine plover]

It’s just Teno, Utah and Pachy are the anti Dino’s who can pose a major threat

[wise sparrow]

Eh... cera won't be a carno's best option.

[alpine plover]

Not it’s best option but better go after that than a pachy

[wise sparrow]

It's to good at defending itself and will live in a forest to dense for carno to handle

[hollow canyon]

Not the best option but an option still

[crimson dune]

galli, galli is the one carno should not try to hunt, well unlees you want to waste all your stam+

[alpine plover]

Tbf all creatures are basically plains rn and cera would be forced out in the open

[wise sparrow]

The plains are done
Gimme forest ecosystem now

[alpine plover]

Unless they added more biomes

They should focus on jungles, swamps and coasts rn

Then go to more detailed things like Arid, redwoods, mangroves etc

[crimson dune]

yeah no one talks about it on suggestions

we need cera herrera troodon and dilo to fill forests and beipi sucho to fill rivers

[wise sparrow]

Troodon is a horrible addition. It adds nothing to the current ecosystem

[crimson dune]

when people says forests they mean jungle

[crimson dune]

and what would add something in your opinion?

[alpine plover]

^

[wise sparrow]

Herra, dilo, cera, minmi, and irl utah

[crimson dune]

why

irl utah would add even less

dilo is big troodon

cera is the best from what you said

[alpine plover]

What we desperate need is Gali, cera, Ovi, Austro, Herrera

[wise sparrow]

Irl utah adds a predator AND is more than 2kg so it would actually add energy to the forests

[crimson dune]

we already have utah

it adds nothing

[alpine plover]

Main jungle/forest hunter should be Utah, dilo and Cerato

[wise sparrow]

This one

[alpine plover]

Fat

[crimson dune]

i know there are going to be 2

[wise sparrow]

We have apolloraptor rn

[alpine plover]

[crimson dune]

it adds notrhing cause we already ahve a raptor

I type like shit sorry

[alpine plover]

I will agree we don’t need actual Utah

[wise sparrow]

Appolo is a pack hunting bleeder that killed apexes.

Utah could be a forest dwelling small teir hunter that lives in pairs and pins smalls down with its claws

[crimson dune]

the ones that would add for me are beipi (I know this one is hard to see why) cera and sucho

[alpine plover]

Beipi adds nothing

Besides a worse austro/Theri

It’s just juvie Theri

[crimson dune]

yes, that deino main stop complaining about not finding food

[wise sparrow]

Bepi would just be funni fish eater that dies

[wise sparrow]

Pffft bepi isn't feeding a fucking deino

[alpine plover]

Are you saying Beipi will help deino with food?

[crimson dune]

the niche is completely different

[alpine plover]

Semi aquatic juvie Theri

If you think Beipi is gonna help feed deino you underestimate a lot of things

[crimson dune]

well is the only thign they will find
consistently

[alpine plover]

They consistently find other deino yet I still see complaint

[wise sparrow]

They weigh less than fucking dryo iirc

[crimson dune]

ok fuck beipi, what you think about adding cera and sucho

[alpine plover]

If you wanna add anything to the water add Bary

[crimson dune]

no

sucho

[alpine plover]

Bary gives a good general predator and a good food source for deino

[wise sparrow]

Bary would be nice.

[crimson dune]

i said sucho

[alpine plover]

Sucho is just a big fat bear

[crimson dune]

[alpine plover]

It helps deino but doesn’t help anything else

[wise sparrow]

I love sucho tho. Cant wait for it honestly

[alpine plover]

Sucho is cool, but it doesn’t help much

[wise sparrow]

We could have had sucho instead of deino

[crimson dune]

next herbi should be gali, i think we all agree on that

[wise sparrow]

And kentro instead of stego would be nice

[alpine plover]

Yea Gali next

(Although it’s omnivore technically)

[wise sparrow]

Cant wait to get kicked to death for existing

[alpine plover]

Gali is good for solo Utahs and carnos. Ovi is good for nest raids, kentro is just balanced stego, MAGY….. uhhh moving on

[wise sparrow]

Magy would actually be viable if it was as fast as allo and had much better stam I think

[crimson dune]

gali is my main herbi, i want to go make carni mad because they cant catch me

[alpine plover]

Magy is just a poor decision all around it doesn’t need explaining

[wise sparrow]

Yea it needs heavy fictionalizing just to sorta work

[crimson dune]

we dont need magy now, whould be one off the dinos add after the game is finished

[alpine plover]

The only way I see Magy somewhat viable is the slight shoulder spikes I see on it

With some armor that it looks like it could have

[spare badger]

It's a slatasauroid so it gets those sharp osteroderms

[spare badger]

In the concept it inflicted bleed

[alpine plover]

Give it some slight bleed bumps to shoulder check people

[spare badger]

That's the plan

[alpine plover]

Maybe upsize it for more health a little

[wise sparrow]

When you realize its barely taller than a person

[crimson dune]

magy will just tank carnis so pachys can kill them and if it dies carnis get damage and cant eat

[alpine plover]

Give it some slight armor so it can take hits

[spare badger]

Middle right image

[barren oracle]

Let me live my sauropod dream

Without 10h of my time

[crimson dune]

magy has to be added after cera, it cant be before

[barren oracle]

Upsize my boy

[alpine plover]

I can just barely see it being viable

[spare badger]

It's viable in forests where it can avoid allo

[alpine plover]

Allo should be the ambush predator

[crimson dune]

it is

[barren oracle]

Tbf most the roster can’t avoid allo

It’s like a peak predator for the game

[alpine plover]

Give Allo just barely decent stamina with mediocre speed with a good bite

[crimson dune]

carno

[barren oracle]

most

[alpine plover]

Allo should be what has the stamina of current Carno

[crimson dune]

gali

[spare badger]

Who can't avoid allo?

[alpine plover]

Magy

[barren oracle]

Gali ain’t gone feed it

[alpine plover]

Cerato

[crimson dune]

slow guys cant avoid allo, allo is the slow dino hunter

[spare badger]

I can see all of them escaping

[alpine plover]

Allo and Cerato are the slower carnivores

[spare badger]

With the exception of maybe cerato and magy

[barren oracle]

Probably cerato, magy, teno that isn’t in the middle of a river, pachy If there ain’t cover nearby

[crimson dune]

is still cant believe dilos were almost as tall as cerato

[spare badger]

Pachy should be able to outstam it, teno and cerato will have trouble without water

[crimson dune]

cerato has nothing to do against allo

[spare badger]

Swim

[barren oracle]

I mean if you add conditions like I did a lot of the lower roster is screwed by an ambush

[spare badger]

According to the concept at least
And cera should be able to outrun an allo

In short bursts most likely

[barren oracle]

Magy is kinda bullied by allo though

[alpine plover]

Cerato should be slower than Allo but much better stamina

[crimson dune]

theres no default condition so to be objective we can only measure stats

[alpine plover]

Cerato would use dodging tactics to avoid Carno/Allo

[spare badger]

Magy would book it into a forest
Magy should never be in the plains

[alpine plover]

Magy should be a jungle/coastal

[crimson dune]

i really dont know why magy is in hte roster, the only reason it survived is because it almost had no predator but because it has a lot in the isle they have to buff it a lot

[alpine plover]

I say coastal cause it could use that neck to reach coconuts or the shoulder to knock down them

[barren oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-kaperoo-gif-23826254

[spare badger]

Magy can be balanced with good use of stuns imo
And apparently magy could grow larger than we think

[alpine plover]

Coastal isn’t actually a bad idea if it’s done right

[barren oracle]

Shush magy is perfect

[crimson dune]

we wont know untill they are finished

[alpine plover]

True

[barren oracle]

-you get to have a long neck
-you don’t gotta spend 10h to have a long neck
-you ain’t slow as shit

[crimson dune]

and magy in the beach i dont think is a good idea with spino probably goin there

[alpine plover]

Oh I can definitely see Magy outrunning spino

[spare badger]

Lmao why would spino be at the coast and why would spino be fast

[crimson dune]

well at least with how coast is now, spino can trap it

[alpine plover]

Spino should be a swamp/mangroves creature who comes to the coast on occasions

[crimson dune]

depends on how muich fish there is on beaches

[spare badger]

It should live in deep, murky, deino infested water

[barren oracle]

Spino goes where it wants

[alpine plover]

Since mangroves would be next to the coast it wouldn’t be out of the blue to see a spino there

[crimson dune]

what are mangroves?

[spare badger]

Sucho in wadeable, clear water
Bary in streams

[spare badger]

Coastal tree species

[barren oracle]

If it wants to go to the coast it can go cause he a Chonky alpha chad

[spare badger]

Long winding roots out of the ground

[crimson dune]

any picture?

[spare badger]

These things

[crimson dune]

but those are on swamps

[spare badger]

No

They aren't

[crimson dune]

oh

[spare badger]

Better example

They live on the coast

[barren oracle]

Basically

[alpine plover]

Basically trees with roots in the water

[crimson dune]

magy cant go there neitherç+

[alpine plover]

To mangroves?

[crimson dune]

ye

[alpine plover]

Why would it need to?

[crimson dune]

to not see spino

[alpine plover]

Spino makes sense cause of bigger fish

[crimson dune]

but you said why would spino go to the coast

[alpine plover]

Let big fish swim in from the ocean into mangroves

[spare badger]

Magy wouldn't really see a spino

[alpine plover]

Cause mangroves are near the coast. Spino would go to the mangroves and if it had time do small checks around the coast in areas that have mangroves

[crimson dune]

magy sounds so boring

[alpine plover]

It wouldn’t be scaling across the coast. Just the areas with mangroves near

[crimson dune]

all time running from things

[spare badger]

Lmao galli

[spare badger]

That means any pseudo mid is boring cause they have to run from mid tiers and up lol

Tenonto = Boring
Cerato = Boring
Pachy = Boring
Utah = Boring

Lol

[crimson dune]

no cause all the other can defend itselfs

good

magy is much weaker than those

[spare badger]

So can magy lmao

Magy is meant to be equal in strength to Cerato

[crimson dune]

the only way I see magy fair is that all dinos can eat it

cause then magy is always faster or stronger than its predators, and in the case they kill it they cant eat it

i will be very disappointed if magy is one of the next 15 dinos to come, except if it comes along another dino

[spare badger]

It is coming soon, it's on the inhabitants list

[crimson dune]

then it has to come with someone else

[spare badger]

Why

It'll come when it's ready

After cerato, beipi and ovi

[crimson dune]

most people dont like it, it will be like 10 months for another dino

[spare badger]

Wdym most people don't like it
Don't like magy?

Magy hate is greatly exaggerated

[crimson dune]

well i made my point, i think amgy sucks and i dont want it in the game

[spare badger]

Why do you think magy sucks tho

[crimson dune]

i told you

[spare badger]

Cause it runs from spino?

Magy can defend itself quite well

[crimson dune]

im rex main, i dont care spino

[barren oracle]

I like our long necked homie

[barren oracle]

I have a question since I’ve never grew an apex

[sinful cove]

do i hear magy hate?

[spare badger]

Magy literally has armour and Is a 50/50 with cerato it won't "run from everything"

[barren oracle]

How painful is to lose a Rex to Utah

[crimson dune]

i just dont like it, not at least with how it looks for me is going to be played

[barren oracle]

BEGONE FOUL DEMON

Leave the child alone!

[sinful cove]

delete magy

[spare badger]

Distract him with kentrosaurus!!

[barren oracle]

NOOOOOO

[sinful cove]

i will eat every magy in my path

[barren oracle]

It’s too late the fatal line has been dealt

[sinful cove]

THE ALLOSAURUS will wipe magy from the face of the isle

[barren oracle]

“I needed to vomit for other nutrients anyway”

[spare badger]

Upsize magy

[barren oracle]

Leave that devil out of this

[sinful cove]

yes i will suffer just to push forward in my anti magy crusade

such is the price of justice

[barren oracle]

Then I will have a slow long to grow longneck. No

[wise sparrow]

Meanwhile anky is vibin in a forest

[barren oracle]

Hang on a second I gotta quote One piece Ohara arc

[sinful cove]

i would rather have this sin of nature than magy

[crimson dune]

wtf

is that

[sinful cove]

a sauropod

a superior sauropod

[wise sparrow]

Phat

[crimson dune]

a long necked not-long necked

[sinful cove]

a beautiful specimen

[barren oracle]

“Justice that involves atrocities worse than what the criminals would have done, as a necessary evil to preserve peace to the world. Unrelenting justice has no boundary’s and is a step we must take”

[sinful cove]

me when i see a juvi magy

[barren oracle]

That- just looks like the dinosaur version of a cow

Killable

Juicy

[sinful cove]

succulent

[barren oracle]

Tasty

[barren oracle]

I think we are taking different paths here-

[sinful cove]

seriously tho the isle coulda done way better

[barren oracle]

Do you or do you not want to marry that Thicc dino

[sinful cove]

well... maybe...

[barren oracle]

Mira- I’m losing hope

[sinful cove]

that's what Im here for now isn't it

[spare badger]

Salta is better

[barren oracle]

Devils spawn indeed

[fresh laurel]

cera aint getting up from that

[sinful cove]

the decapitation roles woulda been reversed in the concept art

shuno just lops a cera's head off

[fresh laurel]

imagine utah pouncing amarga head

them spikes...

[sinful cove]

god i wish we coulda had that, but instead we're getting magy

[fresh laurel]

ikr

[sinful cove]

someting with actual cool ass weapons vs i taste bad

[fresh laurel]

i like how you can see 2 raptors being shocked at the amarga killing their friend

[sinful cove]

"well, shit"

[barren oracle]

I’m leaving now this magy hate is corrupting my innocent long neck wanting dreams

[fresh laurel]

magy is viable
fite meh

[sinful cove]

we are not enemies, I too just want a good small tier longneck

[fresh laurel]

my man magy will out run allo >:)

[barren oracle]

That’s my quote

[fresh laurel]

magy will out run allo and have a 50 50 with cera

ez

[sinful cove]

lol watch them slow down allo's run from the last reel just so it doesnt absolutely curbstomp magy

[barren oracle]

Fun fact no one showed up to the fight I challenged them to over magy

[fresh laurel]

legit allo gets speed nerf so it doesnt catch magy but this causes the butterfly effect where allo dies to anything big

[sinful cove]

poor allosaurus

also what is magy gonna do about albert

[fresh laurel]

better question is what about a utah pack or dilo pack

hell even troodon pack

[barren oracle]

Also die but we don’t gotta talk about it

[fresh laurel]

EVEN ACRO!!!!

[sinful cove]

literally any endurance predator too

[fresh laurel]

i legit dont see magy out running acro

[barren oracle]

Probably bonk em

[fresh laurel]

at this point add a bigger sauropod or something that can be like semi apex sized and make its sub adult stage like magy ig

[barren oracle]

It one shots it cause acro is bad

[sinful cove]

magy is gonna be legacy para unless they pull some massive bullshit just to force it into viability. it doesnt look like it can outrun an allosaurus or a gracile midtier tyrannosaur nor does it look like it can defend against either without it looking like a ridiculous anime fight where theyre gushing blood out of every orifice with 90% hp left

i think we need sea cucumber magy

[barren oracle]

They can make them work

[barren oracle]

Which is

[sinful cove]

sea cucumber magy is the only answer

one sec

[barren oracle]

I need a detailed explanation

[fresh laurel]

i like this

who wouldnt wanna see sauropog explode a trex

[sinful cove]

unironically i would play this

[fresh laurel]

me too

[alpine plover]

Whale explode Magy niche

[keen plover]

If allo is slow again

[dawn dew]

based

[sinful cove]

Sure utah can kill pachy with one pounce but pachy can kill utah with one combo so its fair

[barren oracle]

Just one of them is instant

[sinful cove]

Also are they really dying to carno charge? Just dodge lol

Its like complaining about getting hit by a semi truck like literally step out of the way

[alpine plover]

Did this dude really say Pachy is weak?

[calm ibex]

tbf if you dont know how to play pachy then its bad, but ye

[barren oracle]

Bonk and leave

[calm ibex]

what i meant is that if no one teaches what the abilities do (nevermind knowing what alt attacks are, and yes there are a lot of people who don't know about em),
then yes its quite underwhelming playable that rewards ambush tactics specifically, does not scream herbivore to me

[barren oracle]

People trying to learn Utah

[barren oracle]

20 bite damage is more than dryo

[azure crescent]

ptera's beak is bigger than dryo's

and sharper

[fresh laurel]

Ahem bucking and herd protection go brrr

Im sorry but if you ask for a pachy buff (unless juvie speed increase) then i lost respect for you

[sinful cove]

i didn't...?

i was saying pachy can kill utah just like utah can kill pachy, dont know how you'd in any world equate that to asking for a pachy buff

[fresh laurel]

Im replying to the suggestion

[sinful cove]

oh it looked like it was with your response comment. but fr does that guy not know he can just spam alt a utah back to selection screen lol

[spare badger]

Oi punch says we do be getting balance changes
I hope they learned their lesson from the MT and won't nerf teno into the ground again

[placid reef]

i hope they learned to never insta nerf into the ground when we just ask for small changes

[spare badger]

Buff kick range
Nerf kick knock back
Reduce slam damage by a little

[placid reef]

decrease it by 200%

[spare badger]

Just need it enough so Tenonto can't 1 shot a carno with all headshots
That's it

[fresh laurel]

Remember utah with a pounce that did no dmg and small bleed smh

[fresh laurel]

Oh so you want teno tail slam nerfed a bit? Gota

nerfed tailslam by 10000%

Would be funny if balance update did funni ootah buff

[placid reef]

would be funy if they bring back old carno, make utah fucking god, and bring back legacy pachy and mt teno since we asked for small changes

[alpine plover]

Oh boy! Let's see how many pitchforks and torches I'll summon this time

[fresh laurel]

Aye ill have you know god utah was a stego counter

Who cares if 2 pouncing utahs meant death to carno

[alpine plover]

I'm surprised my balance got a pretty good amount of feedback

[spare badger]

Hold on you want to give teno MT levels of damage?

[spare badger]

Also teno slam currently does 360 iirc

Nerfing it that much is a terrible idea, as the MT showed

[alpine plover]

Nah

It doesn't

It does about 270-280

[spare badger]

I know for a fact that 'technically' teno 5 shots carno

[alpine plover]

And it would hardly be terrible if the kick was buffed and better

People just need to get of this mindset of: "Let me just spam 1 single attack the second I land it"

[spare badger]

Tail slam is the heavy hitter, that's why it makes you stop in your tracks

Tail slam only needs a very slight damage nerf

And kick a hitbox buff

[alpine plover]

Luckily the kick is actually being put on par with tail slam in usability(confirmed by Hypno)

But I simply hate how Teno has a "best" attack. Because that's not Teno's identity as a creature in TI

[spare badger]

Rn teno combat is kinda boring cause it's just slam
But that just makes slam useless cause it still uses 10% of its stam

Unless you nerf it's stam use by a lot teno still needs that damage
As we learned from MT teno

[alpine plover]

Then let's swap the tail slam and kick stam use

[spare badger]

And there is no reason teno slam should do less than carno bite lmaooo

[spare badger]

Kick is only very slightly better stam wise

[alpine plover]

Kick is like 5% while tail slam is 10%

[spare badger]

If slam did less than carno bite carno could literally facetank a teno and that's fucking stupid

[alpine plover]

People are way too used to Teno just only using tail slam because that's all it has been for ages

That they can't even see Teno being good without tailslam being super strong

[spare badger]

I'm all for slam to be used less but don't make it fucking useless

[alpine plover]

It won't be useless

[spare badger]

Why would a huge tail slam that halts all movement do less that carnos bite
Please just answer that

[alpine plover]

It'll be a utility to use so you can just kick something in the face, deal high damage with just 1 single attack and also have the potential to crack their skull

Realism doesn't always equal balance

And if I'm honest with you

MT Teno was so horrible because both its attacks were ass while Carno was utterly busted

High speed, high agility, high dmg, knock down and high fractures

If we take "my" teno

High agility vs low agility
Knock down and stun with lots of reach vs telegraphed knock down that can only be used after 3 seconds
A fracturing kick with very high dmg vs a bite or maybe one head swing that stuns for a second
A fast claw attack with decently high dmg, omnidirectional with also pretty damn high bleed vs Carno bite

Like I said. People are way too used to simply Teno using only the fucking tail slam because for ages that has been the absolute best attack.

Hell, I'd even be fine with removing the kicks stun and knock down if you keep it for Tail slam but nerf its dmg

[spare badger]

Teno going from 360 DMG to 160 DMG would make it utterly useless, because kick doesn't work in the same situations

[alpine plover]

And it fucking isn't 360

It's like I said about 270-280

[spare badger]

Either way it's still less than an non committal carno bite

[spare badger]

Alright I'll take your word for it but my point still stands

[alpine plover]

Just fucking stun him and kick him in the fucking face why is that so hard to understand

You already have long reach, you already have knock down and cc

You shouldn't also get massive damage

[spare badger]

Maybe not massive damage but come on less than a literal bite

[alpine plover]

Then what about 200. There? Are you happy now?

Huh?

[spare badger]

Not really

Lol
I think Aken was the one that told me teno slam did 360 DMG so talk to him ig

[spare badger]

Also a 280 DMG slam would NOT 1 shot a Utah with a headshot (which It currently does) so idk what you're on about

280 x 1.5 headshot multipier is less than 450

[alpine plover]

Then it might be 300 on the spot

[spare badger]

Quick question

[alpine plover]

But don't think it's 360

[spare badger]

How many slams can a teno get on a carno using 1 stun

[alpine plover]

Like 2-3

If not 4 with a base tail-hit

[barren oracle]

isle is kinda borin

[spare badger]

Assuming 4 total hits then it can kill it

[barren oracle]

and everythings too hard none of my friends want to learn how to use creatures

[spare badger]

So 300-360 DMG or so for slam rn right?

Imo I would put teno slam down to 250-280 damage so it can't 1 shot utah

[alpine plover]

235

245

[spare badger]

@hollow canyon how much damage does slam do rn?

[alpine plover]

The thing is that it's hard to calculate it

[spare badger]

Yea

[alpine plover]

The best number of dmg I have for Stego is 1.25 K just through calculations

And if I'm honest I think that's one of my actually pretty damn spot on ones

[spare badger]

Also how strong are you saying kick should be?

[alpine plover]

If we take my idea?

[spare badger]

Yes

[alpine plover]

We could be looking at a 375-385 with medium fractures

If not 400 but I think people would hate that

[spare badger]

Tbh I would argue to put that on slam and make the kick the stun attack
Especially since you can use kick offensively

If they also increase endlag on slam a bit

[alpine plover]

Yeah but the tailslam already has super long reach

[spare badger]

But at least you can't chase people with it

People are mad enough that pachy is aggressive that will just make teno more hated

[alpine plover]

Well

Pachy should get its bug fixed

(which it will)

[spare badger]

If they made tail slam more committal I could see it working

[alpine plover]

And we can see how it goes from there

[spare badger]

The bug only really applies to the alt attack no?

[alpine plover]

I mean, lower the stam of Tailslam and increase the kick, now tail slam is more commitable

[alpine plover]

Nope

It actually only affects the ram

[spare badger]

Which bug are we talking about

[alpine plover]

Stopping attacks.

[fresh laurel]

How to fix teno

Make a missing tails slam have more endlag

Ggez you can punish bad teno players

[spare badger]

True

[alpine plover]

The only real reason why Pachy can easily 1v1 Carno or Teno is because it just stops their attacks with its ram

[fresh laurel]

pachy shouldnt be stopping carno ram or slam even if its timed well imo

its like having a little kid be able to stop a full grow adult slap or something...

[alpine plover]

It doesn't stop carno charge. But it stops attacks in general which is the issue

[fresh laurel]

i heard it does

[alpine plover]

Well, funnily enough it can

[fresh laurel]

but i never really had a server to test stuff

[alpine plover]

No, carno charge makes it get knocked down

Takes no dmg tho

[fresh laurel]

that adult must be lazy as hell if that happens or that kid must be the new mike tyson

[alpine plover]

hatchling pachy can stop the tail swing of a full grown stego

[barren oracle]

I can proudly say that i could in theory beat the crap out of my father at 14

But that because im obsessed with boxing and crossfit

which i dont think pachys are

[fresh laurel]

i said little boy

[fresh laurel]

pachy mains are

[dusky surge]

@alpine plover if you made carno's charge 200 damage, that'd be a huge nerf

[alpine plover]

That'd be a buff if anything since Carno dmg by my calculations is only about 148.5
And not the charge, the bite

[dusky surge]

also making teno's tail slam 150-175 would be over halfing the damage

[alpine plover]

Yes

I am aware

[dusky surge]

that's fucking insane

teno clocks in at around 350 damage atm

[alpine plover]

You can just make the kick good and use te tail for utility

As it should be

[dusky surge]

also that head fracture change seems to specifically favour herbis tbh

i also disagree with removing deino's diet. I'd rather see it get changed to something more appropriate

I still think the "no diet" phase of carni is the most boring of them all

[alpine plover]

So then what would be more appropriate

[dusky surge]

not making deino able to live soley on fish and basically free-grow to 100%

[alpine plover]

Give me an appropriate diet for deino

[dusky surge]

Nutrient 1: Any playable dinosaur
Nutrient 2: Any AI
Nutrient 3: Basking in sunlight

[alpine plover]

Right

You get proteins from the sun

[dusky surge]

It's a gator

[alpine plover]

Since when do Gators eat sunlight

[dusky surge]

They bask to literally help break down their food

[alpine plover]

Or to warm themselves

[dusky surge]

Basking has a big part to play in gator digestion and getting nutrients from their food

You could have the amount the stomach is full directly link to how fast you gain nutrient 3 while basking

It would encourage players to do more gator-esque activities

While not forcing them to hunt any specific thing

[alpine plover]

Well then, the devs better hurry up with basking then

[dusky surge]

WDYM

[alpine plover]

As in the system

Since they want to make an entire basking system for Deino iirc

[undone rapids]

I remember that

[wise sparrow]

Teno’s tail damage is relatively okay. Its the stun locking for a while that makes it so much better than kick

Stunts themselves need an overhaul

[alpine plover]

There is no fucking stunlocking.

Can't people just stop saying false stuff

[spare badger]

Teno slam doesn't stun lock lmao

[wise sparrow]

Sorry it’s more that the stun it applies allows for massive damage in comparison to kick. Combine that with slam being easier to land and kick becomes almost irrelevant.

I keep accidentally calling it stun lock.

[hollow canyon]

Funny cause I honestly find playing juvie Carnivore to be the most fun thing in the current game. If I could stop my growtha t 49.9% I gladly would.

Literally just because of the diet

[fresh laurel]

eh I mean at this point ill rather go back to update 3 or somethin

diets are b o r i n g

[hollow canyon]

^

Awfully so, they actually beat out the locked health for the title of the worst mechanic in the game

[fresh laurel]

health lock...

why did they add that again?

make you not wanna pick fights alot?

[hollow canyon]

That wasn't the idea

[fresh laurel]

heal for over 30 mins?

[hollow canyon]

The idea was that it would work as a scarring system

[fresh laurel]

ik

[hollow canyon]

if you see an animal with a lot of scars you would want to pick on that specific animal in a herd

[fresh laurel]

but they made it lock your hp

by alot

[hollow canyon]

yea the scarred animal would be weaker so that'd be the best target to choose

while hunting a herd

it doesn't work in this way... at all

the only actual consequence of this mechanic is longer healing=more afking

[fresh laurel]

would of at least prefered where you get of status of taking more dmg than normal at least

while still being able to heal to full hp

would stop afk while still making you a favorite target

[hollow canyon]

Idk if it would make much of a difference, either way that mechanic is a total failure

[fresh laurel]

true

diets beats health lock is the saddest thing i ever heard

[hollow canyon]

Well that's according to me

a lot of people might disagree

I know that there are some people that like the diets... which seems outright insane to me but well - different people, different opinions

[fresh laurel]

i mean i might prefer health lock imo

you can eat anything still while hunting fine just healing is longer

diets rn is limiting everything you can eat with giant debuffs

[hollow canyon]

I prefer health lock because while it makes the game worse, it doesn't mess up the core gameplay quite this badly

[hollow canyon]

@ripe furnace Carno's running turn rate is more or less alright, the walking, standing and trotting ones are the issue. I disagree with giving this animal fractures. They have no place on this animal imo.

[ripe furnace]

you think carno shouldnt have fracture?

[hollow canyon]

Yea

[ripe furnace]

y

[hollow canyon]

I don't think it needs this mechanic nor that it would be balanced for it to have it

because it's a crowd control-based animal

if it hits the charge on you it has the time to dish out its damage

the smaller animals just die if they get hit with the charge followed up with 2 bites

the larger ones shouldn't be outright screwed just because Carno landed a single special ability on them

[ripe furnace]

i guess thats true but a bpdu fracture isnt that bad

especially for large tier

Its running at very high speeds and coliding with you face first

[hollow canyon]

I mean realistically it would likely cause fractures

but realistically it also wouldn't do the charge thing at all

and it would invalidate a big part of the roster

[ripe furnace]

well the charge is kind of one tracked and has a cooldown

[hollow canyon]

I know which is why it's a balanced ability more or less compared to e.g. Tenonto's tail slam

or Pachy's ram attack

[ripe furnace]

why wouldnt carno charge anyway

the bone crest seems kinda thick enough

short head too

i dont think it would go head to head with other carnos but you know

[barren oracle]

Honestly

Nerf miner

[hollow canyon]

its neck would most likely break its neck if it tried charging things in the manner it does in the game I believe

[ripe furnace]

not on something such as utah though

[hollow canyon]

Idk, Utah does weigh half a tonne

I mean the real one, the one in the game would likely weight quite a bit less

[ripe furnace]

yeah i mean in game

[ripe furnace]

but even then carno looks to have a pretty stiff neck

and honestly were not sure how big their horns could be

[hollow canyon]

It could maybe do that but... why would it if it can just crash the thing in its jaws?