balance-feedback-discussion

[ripe furnace]

I don’t play pachy so I wouldn’t know

I’ve just seen it repeatedly

[wise sparrow]

...there is no regular charge.

Unless you are talking about tap charge. But that's just its running charge but without windup and less dmg

[ripe furnace]

Maybe it’s that

[wise sparrow]

Well yea. The tap charge isn't intentional so it will probably be patched (when the devs release their yearly balance patch >~>)

[fresh laurel]

@loud sleet I think utah is fine rn

it only needs adjustments

[wise sparrow]

Utah is fine the isle just has to have acceptable performance

[loud sleet]

what about stego?

[spare badger]

That's a stego problem not a Utah problem

[fresh laurel]

very acceptable

I think most utahs wouldnt die if they had good ping and fps most of the time

[fresh laurel]

stego is just too strong bruv

[sinful cove]

Utah just has the same problem as carno rn, it is a one trick pony paired with 2 brawler herbivores and an apex tier that shouldn’t have even been added this early. It isnt underpowered, it just has no good utility

[fresh laurel]

pounce jump off maybe

that was a great idea for pounce improvement

[deep vine]

honestly the utah should be a harassing dino. when you bite it causes bleading, so what you should be able to do is cause the bleading then just keep it running and not let it rest. until it bleeds out.

[fresh laurel]

it already does that but rn all carnivores suffer from being one trick ponies tbh

its kinda hard to balance something that has one main attack for one thing only to hunt something that has multiple moves for different situations

while feeling fun and fair

[deep vine]

i know but the guy made it sound like you should just be able to brawl it out with other dinos. you shouldnt. they are not meant for that.

[fresh laurel]

deino could of been saved from the one trick pony curse by giving it a tail smack like a irl gator or deathroll

carno could have a stationary head attack

[fresh laurel]

Im pretty sure they meant for carnivores to feel more diverse in their moves

[sinful cove]

wtf is that deino cannibalism feedback lol gators kill and eat their own all the time

[deep vine]

i think the deathroll should be a thing. like when you latch on and the stamina starts to decrease you can choose to deathroll and you bassically would tear a chunk of there health but they would be released

[fresh laurel]

sometimes man you gotta let them figure out why their suggestion is bad

[fresh laurel]

i think death roll could be used for things deino cant really grab that are swimming to cause heavy bone dmg

[sinful cove]

It wont stop kfs either

[deep vine]

@sinful covei said that because it would create encentive for deinos just to kill all other deinos on sight.

[sinful cove]

Deinos already have incentive, because they can eat it

[fresh laurel]

but deino are cannibles irl though...

[deep vine]

@sinful coveya hence why i said make it where if you kill it you cant eat it

[fresh laurel]

plus deino kinda would reduce its own population this way

[sinful cove]

No.

[fresh laurel]

what.

that logic works with utah sure but deino?

[fresh laurel]

deino isnt a pack hunter

its a solo hunter

[sinful cove]

You wanted deino to have an incentive to kill eachother, they already do

[fresh laurel]

so why stop it from killing and eating for territory

[deep vine]

exactly if you can kill it and eat it, it creates incentive to kill them. but if you kill it and cant eat it, you are more likely to just leave it.

[fresh laurel]

also where is the logic in if i found it its fine to eat but if i killed it its not

[deep vine]

@sinful coveno i didnt want to add incentive can you not read

[fresh laurel]

[sinful cove]

Gators are a mob hunters/feeders, not pack hunters. Theyll eat anything and if another grabs a kill theyll all go for a piece

[sinful cove]

Can you not type

[fresh laurel]

ima just question why you took a screenshot of it lol

[deep vine]

Cannibals are carnivores that eat the meat of members of their own species. Many animals practice cannibalism

[sinful cove]

Ssh shhh

[fresh laurel]

sus

[fresh laurel]

like deino?

cus its a gator?

[sinful cove]

And? Gators kill other gators and eat them all the time. What is your point

Especially juveniles

[deep vine]

that would mean under your logic all the carnivores should be alloud to eat each other. But they have it where you cant with out repercussions

[fresh laurel]

also why are you saying this for deino only and not carno?

why cant deino kill and eats its own kind but carno can? by your logic

[sinful cove]

I wouldnt even mind that, but deino is a cannibal in its diet so it would be fucking stupid if it had to hope another deino killed another deino that it can eat nearby

Juvi pachy coconuts level of stupid

We dont need more of that

[fresh laurel]

this would get weird to code ngl

and whats stopping you from having a friend land the last hit on a deino to let you eat it

[deep vine]

huh well all carni are canibals so once again under your logic all carni should be able to kill and eat there own

[sinful cove]

Not all carnivores are career cannibals

Gators are very indiscriminate, and i wpuldnt even care if all carnis were allowed to eat eachother

[deep vine]

um its actually very common according to national geographic

[fresh laurel]

I dont think smart utahs would cannible if they remember how good pack utah is

[sinful cove]

Among certain species, a lot of cases it is last resort

Gators dont give a damn they do it just because

[fresh laurel]

gators are chads, they dont give 5 fishes about it

[sinful cove]

Most cases are eating juveniles either because it belonged to another male or a female getting rid of a sick/deceased offspring

Gators just do it as a part of their lifestyle

[deep vine]

still canibalizing, and gators only tend to eat juveniles also, unless its a dead adult

just like almost every carni

[sinful cove]

Theyll eat rivals as well if the opportunity presents itself

They dont care

[deep vine]

just like most carni's

[sinful cove]

They are indiscriminate, honestly deino shouldn’t have the dietary restrictions it has right now even

[fresh laurel]

honestly why ruin deino even more rn when it has to deal with the diet system of not getting certain nutrients because of their water restriction

[deep vine]

because all that happens if you only eat fish is you get no buff, your just normal.

[fresh laurel]

deino legit will be lucky to lunge at something now with all the see through water hacks and oasis and shallows

so really they will mostly get fish and other deinos

[sinful cove]

Most do, most predators nowadays dont readily eat their own species if they don’t need to, reptiles are most willing to cannibalize which is why more carnis in the isle shouldnt be punished for it at all imo

Competitive and solo carnis shouldnt be punished

[deep vine]

and dinos are reptiles

[sinful cove]

We dont need more bullshit restricting deino just because some people get salty that they got KOSed in a pvp survival game

[sinful cove]

No shit thats what i just said

[fresh laurel]

canniblelism nerfs kinda flawed rn since isnt packing a big plus to not cannible?

dont think you would go crazy over eating your own kinda but hey

[sinful cove]

Yeah its pretty lame

[deep vine]

so what you are saying is we should kill the game because no one is going to want to play it when the bigger adults just KOS all babies so you dont have a chance to grow

[sinful cove]

Not everybody cries and quits when they get KOSed

People will do it for fun even if they dont get to cannibalize, and it just punishes actually hungry deinos

[deep vine]

no just majority do, its what kills games when people cant play because others ruin gameplay

[fresh laurel]

legacy worked

[sinful cove]

Then play on one of the police state community servers with body down rules and no kfs rules

[deep vine]

ya mainly because the servers have rules on legacy

[fresh laurel]

like legacy no rules i think cannibles were in check on no rules

many dinos would just mega pack

[fresh laurel]

who said im talking about rules server...

[fresh laurel]

god damn that was annoying legit my first time playing on one of them and i got warned for killing a baby utah (that i didnt see) when i was fighting a full grown giga

i was a full grown giga too so that utah was tiny as hell

[sinful cove]

I killed some sped austro that kept running in front of me on one of those and an admin screamed about it in announcements

Was fighting and an admin tped me and my friend across the whole ass field to a tiny ass body like “theres a body stop fighting”

[fresh laurel]

bro in a rule server i got banned for fighting back against a person who wanted to fight me when i got near their body

like what

[sinful cove]

Cancer servers, but its where people why cry about kos belong ig

[fresh laurel]

i miss progression ngl

it was the only meaningful playmode on this game

[deep vine]

lolz, you guys sound very prejudice.

[sinful cove]

Lmao i got kicked from one for killingb a hatchling that bit me because “no killing hatchlings!!!1!1!!!l”

[fresh laurel]

aye man im just saying rule servers were annoying most of the time

[sinful cove]

Pot to the kettle

[deep vine]

lolz not being prejudice at all. No where have i called people cancer or sped

[fresh laurel]

then you are just calling miragaia a prejudice...

weird...

[deep vine]

i said sound prejudice, never called him one

[sinful cove]

Said the servers were cancer and one austro was sped but ok

[fresh laurel]

implied it here

but really on no rules cannibles were in check imo

[deep vine]

maybe so. but never still called him it

[fresh laurel]

like I could actually grow a giga of all things without dying all the time

[sinful cove]

Gigas likes to kill their own in my experience but its good riddance honestly

Too many of them

[deep vine]

but crocs need that mechanic, see when on a no rule server and you get KOS everyone teams up and kllls said person. But how you going to team up and kill the croc when he is in very deep water

[sinful cove]

Larger roster also helped control it, didnt need cancer mechanics in place

[fresh laurel]

gigas normally die to rexes from what i seen

[sinful cove]

They dont need it lmao

[fresh laurel]

because of legacy bad balancing

rex ambushed and ran faster smh

yet giga had a lighter build but weighed more

what

but i digress

[deep vine]

once again no one is going to want to play if you spend 3 hours of your time to die from another person every time. expecially when you cant really avoid other crocs

[sinful cove]

Play on a rules server we dont need to ruin every server because some portion of the community whinges when they are killed by an animal that is cannibalistic by design

[sinful cove]

Speak for yourself

[deep vine]

like you said reptiles are canibalistic, and last time i checked dinos are reptiles

[fresh laurel]

baby deinos could use a land speed buff to avoid adults tbh and in this game you will always die

[sinful cove]

Youre just spewing shit to contradict yourself at this point, i already pointed that out and it also supports letting them to continue to kill and eat their own

Youve got to be circling this convo to troll or something lol

[deep vine]

@fresh laurelyes but its not fun when there is nothing you can do about it. Literally cant avoid other crocs. your only chance is that there are repercussions.

[sinful cove]

Grow in the areas that arent swarming with other crocs then, worked for me every tome

[deep vine]

@sinful coveno i said that to say that all carni's should canibalize by your standards yet they cant, its almost like the comunity in majority of the case doesnt want canibalizing.

[sinful cove]

I already said at least twice that i wouldnt give a shit if all carnis could cannibalize

[deep vine]

@sinful coveand you are a minority

they made it that way because majority said different

[sinful cove]

Ok where is your evidence? Your opinion?

Deino is a cannibal by design

Same with cerato, do you want him to get this horrid mechanic too?

[deep vine]

its literally in the feedbacks someone said to allow canibalizing and i think 4 said yes and 60 said no

[sinful cove]

“Bro trust me”

Dont see any upvotes on your feedback either

[deep vine]

@sinful coveor you can i dont know look, its not like your restricted from looking into other channels

[fresh laurel]

enough talk about deino not being able to eat iits own kind how about we talk about pachy doing so much dmg and being able to break bones by hitting tails

[sinful cove]

I aint looking for something i dont give a damn about lol

[deep vine]

ya because i said that it would be ok to canibalize things you didnt kill, its almost like most people dont want canibals

[sinful cove]

Tail hits in general need a fix for now and the future

[sinful cove]

Lmao no that isnt the reason

Because its a stupid ass mechanic

[deep vine]

huh where is your proof

sounds like an opinion

[sinful cove]

“Dont let the cannibal animal eat what it kills”

Play another animal if you dont like cannibals

Play utah or some shit

Or play on one of the authoritarian community servers that dont allow you to kos

[fresh laurel]

This whole arguement started from deino not being to eat a deino it killed but instead a deino it finds

Funny

[undone rapids]

makes sense

[sinful cove]

It gave birth to a shitstorm lol

Scavenger deino moment

What deino needs is more interaction with the rest of the roster, not a shitty mechanic that adds more restrictions to their food intake

[ripe furnace]

I mean cannibalizing is already a crocodile thing

[dusky surge]

man out here thinking fractures are chance based smh

man also out here suggesting pachy be useless against carno

[ripe furnace]

It should be able to defend itself but it’s too strong

[dusky surge]

yes but that doesn't mean to make it fodder

[ripe furnace]

I guess that’s true

Just nerf it’s head slam speed and then it’s balanced boom

[deep vine]

@ripe furnaceya i thought they got repercussions because of it, but found out they dont.

@dusky surge@ripe furnacecant remember if its true but i remember watching a comedy thing on them and it was making fun of them ramming heads, and bassically they would devolop concussions if they rammed heads to many times. Was wondering if that would be a way to implement a down side. If they use the ability to much at once they get a concussion and it makes the vision blury.

[ripe furnace]

That is a good idea I like that

[barren oracle]

1/15 chance

[slim dragon]

"make Pachy unbable to bonebreak carno and remove most of its damage on the ram"
Bruh what ? How is pachy going to survive then ? Outrun the carno ?

[spare badger]

They're just salty that a mid sized herbi isn't free food

[hollow canyon]

"small-sized" technically, nevertheless that suggestion was... dumb to put it mildly

[wise sparrow]

I loathe the idea of an animal simply giving its predator an owie and letting it go. While pachy stun locking and its lack of punishment for missing rams is a problem. The solution isn't to make it unable to kill anything and give it an rng bonebreak that is basically just rex bonebreak with different animations and like a 80% chance to be useless.

Oh dear god I just realized he wants it to be carno fodder

[wise sparrow]

Fun fact: dinosaurs aren't as related to reptiles as you may think. Dinosaurs were warm blooded and much more active. Along with even animals like ceratosaurus being closer related to birds. Just because they had scales doesn't mean they act the same as reptiles

So you can't really use that as an argument

[unborn iris]

How does the stun locking work? When I fought pachy as a carno, once you got stunned the first time you had a decent window to just face tank them.

[wise sparrow]

Then the pachy was awful. Pachy can simply tap charge carno to trigger a stun, then circle it constantly ramming it, keeping the carno stuned for a huge chunk if damage

Like seriously a pachy that knows how to stun lock can do more damage than a teno barrage

[unborn iris]

I feel like there is a time period after a stun that you can't be stunned again. I've been rammed after and not gotten stunned.

[deep vine]

fun fact bioligacaly birds are related to reptiles, according to these professors. Also majority of dinos are reptiles

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/what-are-dinosaurs.html

[wise sparrow]

There is but a pachy can time it to almost instantly re apply the stun

[deep vine]

https://askabiologist.asu.edu/questions/birds-dinosaurs-reptiles

[wise sparrow]

Ok. But I was more saying that just because they are loosely related doesn't mean they act the same way. By that logic I should go swim around and eat my own children cause humans descended from fuckin fish

[deep vine]

but dinos are not "loosely" related to reptiles.

[mental roost]

Free protein.

[deep vine]

Dinosaurs are archosaurs, a larger group of reptiles that first appeared about 251 million years ago, near the start of the Triassic Period.

[wise sparrow]

And we are not "loosely" related to chimpanzees and do you see me ripping someone's face off for the fun of it?

[deep vine]

not you but others yes. Just look at the dark web cartel videos

[wise sparrow]

What I'm getting at is that you cant say that dinosaurs act like lizards just because they are related

[deep vine]

never said they act like lizaards that was someone else i said they are reptiles, and reptiles are cannibals

[mental roost]

Isn't this turning into more of a paleotalk discussion at this point? Also, at one point, synapsids could be considered 'reptiles', given diapsids and synapsids did have a common ancestor prior to splitting. Obviously diapsids went on to become archosaurs and non archosaurs, however the archosaurs are more closely related to eachother than the non archosaurus(I believe it went: Crocodiles, Dinosaurs and Pterosaurs for the archosaurs category).

[wise sparrow]

So now I'm confused? Do you want all dinos be cannibals?

[deep vine]

no maybe if you read the other comments you would have seen that i was trying to state that under that guys logic they all would be. But they are not. I understand my idea was bad has to many work arounds to it to even be close to working. and i stated my idea under wrong info i thought crocs currently get repercussions for eating there own.

[wise sparrow]

oh

[deep vine]

@wise sparrowbut on other topics what do you think of this

"cant remember if its true but i remember watching a comedy thing on them and it was making fun of them ramming heads, and bassically they would devolop concussions if they rammed heads to many times. Was wondering if that would be a way to implement a down side. If they use the ability to much at once they get a concussion and it makes the vision blury."

makes it where they have all there current things but there is a down side, bassically that they can break bones and still run away but if they try to duke it out and kill everything, makes it extremely harder to do

[wise sparrow]

Eh. It punishes pachy for defending itself. Let's say a huge utah pack just starts purposely getting hit to give pachy a concussion. And I also hate the idea of pachy only ever hirting the opponent just to let it get away

[deep vine]

@wise sparrowwell it is a herbivore, its main aim is to survive not kill.

[wise sparrow]

It would let stupid carni players make a million mistakes and would discourage anyone from actually getting better at carnivores

The way people seem to want herbis balanced is to punish them very heavily for a single mistake and allow the carnis to make as many mistakes as they want

[deep vine]

but it is currently brocken right now. They dominate servers. and ruin gameplay for many people. there not suppose to be apex

[wise sparrow]

That's mainly due to a bug with tap charge and stun locking. Pachys stats are fine, some systems just need an overhaul

[hollow canyon]

For Tenonto that is a thing - for Pachy not so much though which is apparently one of the things about it that is being looked at

[placid reef]

wait is it a bug or a feature?

[fresh laurel]

Actually for pachy its a bug

When pachy is working right i dont get stun locked

[hollow canyon]

A bug almost certainly

[fresh laurel]

But for real though can stuns be shorter

[granite gate]

@deep vine one shotting anything that takes 5 hours to grow may be "realistic", but it's fucking awful gameplay

[deep vine]

@granite gatethat is literally the job of the deino its an ambush predator, not a duke it out predator

[granite gate]

then it can ambush smaller prey? or it should take far longer to grow. you know the balance of this game is the time aspect -- the more powerful you are and the more able you are to kill other players, the longer your grow time should be

[deep vine]

and it takes about 6 hours to grow a deino

[granite gate]

same amount of time for a stego

[deep vine]

exactly so i should be on par with a stego not loose every fight

[granite gate]

on par with a stego doesnt mean being able to oneshot it?

i agree stegos shouldnt be able to bully deinos in water but "me oneshot" is not the solution here

[deep vine]

it does when not only should i be on par, but i am in my zone, i am in the water doing a surprise attack.

[granite gate]

they are also "in their zone" -- they're on shore. on land.

[deep vine]

not even close, i am still in the water i can throw my weight around even more.

[granite gate]

if the stego gets into the water? yeah, sure. drown it. but if it's doing something it literally has to do in order to survive (drink)? 6 hours down the drain because some doofus can right click?

[deep vine]

so bassically i should always just be on the bottom, whether i am in my area

[granite gate]

no? i literally said, any animal that gets into the water should be pretty much insta-killed thru drowning

that is in your area. a shoreline or river bank is the spot between your "area" and the stego's area

[deep vine]

no my place is literally the bank, not only the water, i am an AMBUSH predator. If i dont kill it from the get go i am screwed

[granite gate]

lol tell that to deino's biteforce. it's op enough as it is. the fixes we actually need are reducing land dino's weight in water, and fixing the map to have less shallow areas. deino does not need to be able to one-shot literally every dino in the game

[deep vine]

if not one shot i should be able to grab it and drag it at full grown. if it is full stam it can buck me, but other wise it should be mine

[granite gate]

that is essentially still a one shot but whatever. you clearly feel as though deino is meant to be stego's #1 predator, even though its primary threat is meant to be small, agile bleeders like utah due to its tanky and slow nature. given that deino can, again, literally one shot all other dinos on the current roster, i dont think deino itself needs a crap load of buffs. like i said, the issue is the map, and the actual in-water mechanics for land dinos.

i don't seem to be getting through to you so im just going to go ahead and head out lol... gl with playing deino

[sour halo]

Now don't get me wrong here, but im 30000000% sure that deino doesn't one shot teno or carno

Unless they've changed that since I've last played

[brittle dirge]

the "one shot" is the grab and drown

[fresh laurel]

even then you got a chance if deino is a quarter stam left

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't have to actually kill you via drowning when it gets you into the water, just fyi. With Carno especially but even with a Utah or Pachy you can just release them far from the shore and bite them to death to save up on stamina. You only really mess up if you use up your whole stamina before they drown, if it seems like you're about to run out - just release the prey item and bite it to death. You 4-shot a Carno and Tenonto, you oneshot a Utah.

[granite gate]

yeh this is what i meant by "one shotting almost all of the roster"

you really have to like... severely fuck it up as deino if you ambush and they get away

sneaky is right though, teno and carno aren't technically one-shots but with the grab mechanic it ends up being the same as a one-shot in terms of counter play

[fresh laurel]

utah cant even survive lunge

and i dont like how deino can let go on purpose when you are far from land to save stam

if you ask me deino should be doing a weird stunned animation when stam runs out during lunge

like when utah pounce stam runs out

to give the lucky victim a chance to see the light

[hollow canyon]

I mean... there would be more of a reason to just release your prey in the water and kill via bites then

[fresh laurel]

you see there? my good sir

that could be fixed but in a way deino mains wont like

[spare badger]

It can essentially because lunge is a dumb mechanic

[sinful cove]

mmm waking up to another awful suggestion by kid401. Looks like something id see from frosty the icewing

A worthy addition to my archives

[dusky surge]

do you think he mains carnis?

i cant tell

[slim dragon]

The real question is
Does he know herbies are playable ?

[dusky surge]

all AI

[sinful cove]

Id bet my left foot he's a deino main

[barren oracle]

Peak fiction, but never as good as frosty

[deep vine]

Yes I play deino because every time I play herbivore I either get killed within 10 meters of spawn or I get to a herbi pack and they kill me. It's also why I don't play the other carnivores. Funny how deino I am less likely to be killed from the get go. But nice to know people are still toxic.

[fresh laurel]

(Dont spawn at south)

[deep vine]

@fresh laurel didn't matter where I spawned first one a full grown Utah got me. Then I chose a different place and then it was a carno. Then the other there was a near by herbi pack that one I approached and 2 called the stego 2 called back then waited for me to get close and they killed me.

[fresh laurel]

Make frosty a qa member already

Wavepool gots competition

[fresh laurel]

Never seens adults herbis kill babh ones but legit hide if you keep dying theres so many bushes

[deep vine]

@fresh laurel but then at that point, what's the point.

[fresh laurel]

You are living bruv you hide and eat when coast is clear

If people can get to adult with their mid tiers or smalls then you are doing something wrong

[deep vine]

Then might as well play something else that I can have atleast some fun with.

[fresh laurel]

Juvie utah

Or wait for troodon to grow in 20 mins

[deep vine]

Ya most have established groups already

Utah I have to deal with cani's also. Less likely to be spawned camp. But still have to deal with other Utah that are untrusting so they would rather kill them trust

[sinful cove]

i see tenontos and pachies kill baby herbis like every time i risk hanging out near them lmao, does seem less usual for stegos though

i grow utahs all the time and manage to avoid dying to players though unless i decide to throw my life away in a fight, if you have that much trouble when it comes to getting constantly killed as a utah you must either be bad at hiding or unlucky to run in to ESP hackers constantly

[fresh laurel]

Smh stop over aggro herbis already then

Made herbis so fun that carnivore mains moved to them to commit genocide

Smh

[sinful cove]

to be fair, herbis have always been pretty aggro

its worse now because they have all the brawlers at the moment though

its more fun to kill juvies when you got a lot of ways to do it lol

[fresh laurel]

Start of evrima herbis were more chill imo because the carnivores were actually something to worry about

[sinful cove]

plus herbi juvies seem most likely to approach adults in their faction/species

[fresh laurel]

But now its eh

[fresh laurel]

Never seen juvie utahs?

Moment you kill something as a utah 20 come out a bush to eat with you lmao

[sinful cove]

theyre too trusting as well but with herbis youll often see like a baby pachy run up to an adult tenonto and friendly call

they have the whole faction they get too trusting with

[fresh laurel]

Ima be honest i kill any little herbivore i see as a carnivore

Its the only revenge i can get these days

[sinful cove]

ive had far too trusting juvi carnos approach my adult utah tho it isnt an herbi exclusive issue at least but its most common

[frail flicker]

ive been growing on the beach as a utah and killed a turtle only for a juvi carno to come over and start eating with me, i killed it after because i dont mixpack but still. people do be trusting

[fresh laurel]

This might be a hated opionion but can utah bite get a bleed buff

Its very risky to bite and gives no reward rn

[sinful cove]

i just wish its pounce was more expanded on, personally i dont think it should be biting as much vs utilizing its claws

[frail flicker]

nah i agree, it definitly needs something

[placid reef]

its bite still needs smth, the game rn is very bland with all the 1 trick ponys

[fresh laurel]

Oh no im not saying bite should be letting utah to go out of its way to kill but rn its jist useless

When you land bite you dont feel a reward

[sinful cove]

it is a one trick pony but thats mainly because its pounce has one socket and one function

[fresh laurel]

Which shouldnt be the case anyways

Expand on utah mechanics not stats

[sinful cove]

pounce should have multiple sockets, it should have a quick-pounce that just kicks off the target and utah should be able to move its location somewhat on larger animals at a stam cost. its stam cost across the board should be reworked as well as bucking to have different effects based on location, animal and weight values

[fresh laurel]

So many great utah ideas i seen here

[placid reef]

its a one trick pony bc every other ability is redundant, same for teno and stego, pounce could still get more done to ti but bite just needs smth

[placid reef]

love to see that my idea is slowly getting more traction

[fresh laurel]

You land bite on carno congrats but what did you gain

You didnt put much bleed or dmg

You only risked a big bite from carno

[frail flicker]

the only thing bite is good for is to keep bleed going if it heals up

[fresh laurel]

Alone bite bleed is nothing sooo...

[placid reef]

bite should be the tool used by the rest of the pack to help the pouncers

[fresh laurel]

Ye

Or if you dont have as much stam for a good pounce then bite to give somewhat good bleed

[placid reef]

so it gives the whole pack something to do for the hunt not just sit and wait for their/if turn

[barren oracle]

Nevermind utahs bite being worthless, new players cant play utah at all, at least efficiently

[frail flicker]

biting is better for pins rn, because you can bite the head of whatever is pinned

[fresh laurel]

Utah needs vc and its a fact

[barren oracle]

Not even that there just needs to be something to explain how bleed works and what pounce does

[fresh laurel]

Idk if devs want us to use discord or etc to bypass ingame chat making us f call and stuff but rn utah is forced

[placid reef]

only humans may need vc, keep dinos out of that, the game is hard (well should be) and especially utah

[fresh laurel]

Im saying this cus how much discord is used that you could still talk to dinos if you hop in vc with them lmao

[frail flicker]

besides if you want vc theres always discord, but, it would be neat to see how much blood a dino has lost, say the blood on the ground gets darker as the dino runs out of blood

[fresh laurel]

Makes human vc exclusive useless imo

[placid reef]

then use discord if you want that, keep the game out of that

[barren oracle]

I mean like man get a tutorial, its a rogue like where you have to grind

[placid reef]

ye this is what gore prob does, gives better visuals for this stuff

[fresh laurel]

Like the idea

[placid reef]

the fact we dont have direct access to the stats gives us already the knowledged that you dont just get to master and understand smth in the first 5 min

[fresh laurel]

If blood drops got darker showing how low a dino is to bleeding out then it might save my utah pack from getting impatient ngl

[frail flicker]

as is rn blood loss is something you have to, feel out? the more experience you get bleeding things the better you understand it which is aweful for new players

[fresh laurel]

I still dunno how long and how many pounces do i have to do to bleed a teno out or carno tbh

[frail flicker]

pachy takes about 1-2 pounces depending on how quick you want it to die

[fresh laurel]

Plus this game strives to make it fair for us all right? New or pro

[placid reef]

ye iirc gore will add all these visual queues to aid in hunts, like finding the weakling, sick etc, and knowing how much damage you have actually done to smth to know if its worth going or not

[fresh laurel]

How does gore let you find a weakling

[placid reef]

well gore and elders would fill this role

[fresh laurel]

Like do you smell the sags a dino has? Lmao

[placid reef]

if someone is sick, fractured (well less gore), bleeding, very hurt from a fight, gore will show that, at least thats what i got from all the gore info

also weakling could be a juvie as they are weaker so not just a sick of hurt individual but the juvies too

and elders will show the aged ones that are much weaker than they used to be, beeing easier prey

i think with u4 and the massive undertake that was fractures and gore beeing even larger they have learned and know that thats gonna be the final drop for many, at least i hope

[frail flicker]

Well, elders were said to be stronger than adults, but deteriorate near the end of their life cycle

[placid reef]

meant the older elders, so the ones that are weaker

[frail flicker]

Fair enough

[fresh laurel]

@full eagle i think is already easy to get

plus its a death sentence

so it should be hard to inflict

[undone rapids]

maybe

we don't know how well gore will actually work.
Besides the "more real" art style

Alongside decaying corpses showing bones (like skulls)

[sinful cove]

“Carno needs more stam than this animal that is vastly slower than it or it is at a disadvantage”

[fresh laurel]

who said that quote

sounds like a frosty suggestion

O

lamo

pachy not out stamming the heavier and more tanky carno?

only thing i agree with is pachy shouldnt break bodies by hitting tails

[alpine plover]

i just hate how carno charge simply doesn't work sometimes

[sinful cove]

Tail hits for fracture and cc are an issue almost entirely across the board too

[alpine plover]

like you can just completely phase through a pachy while charging

then it turns around and breaks your leg while getting a tail hit 🙂

[sinful cove]

Lmao somebody upvoted the feedback asking for carno to have more stam than pachy some people dont care about balance they just want “muh favorite dinosaur bestest ever”

[sinful cove]

Isnt that a current issue where pachy can attack on time and nullify tenonto and carnos attacks

For some reason they seem to be parrying the heavy attacks from animals 3+ times their size

Pachy should be a formidable animal but it should not want to tank a slam or charge and should not be parrying its full damage away

[dusky surge]

me want fast predator to have more stam than remarkably slow small-tier

[alpine plover]

yeah no idea, pachy is just overtuned atm

[dusky surge]

pachy's greatest weakness is, for a small tier, it's not very fast

[sinful cove]

Fastest land animal, also a psuedo mid tier ambusher also having more stam than the slower animals in its biome is just that guy must hate herbis

Would also make things shittier for utah's matchup even

[alpine plover]

i think carno as of now is kinda in a shitty spot, in terms of hunger drain and of course the amount of players huddling together making it impossible to hunt unless they physically leave the pond

i would buff carnos stationary turn and acceleration but thats ab it

carnos will find a way to megapack no matter what either, its so annoying

[sinful cove]

Food values for carnis definitely are trash and oasis also ruins a lot of interaction but that’s not a stat issue. Diminishing returns on crippling abilities across the board (namely cc), a charge noise for pachy and a recovery time for a missed charge would be enough imo

[sinful cove]

And yeah i see a lot of people complaining that its impossible to survive as carno yet i always hear and see their cancerous megapacks nonetheless, bit contradictory lol

[hollow canyon]

Carno needs help, but it definitely shouldn't have more stamina than Pachy(idk if increasing its stamina is a good idea at all)

[sinful cove]

Carno should stay as a low stam animal

[hollow canyon]

I'd personally like it if one of the counterplays to Carno was to be making it run out of gas

[alpine plover]

everything as of now just feels so dull to play. I'm not sure what it is, but its absolutely awful

[sinful cove]

Ambushers generally shouldn’t have generous stamina to work with

[hollow canyon]

now if we had the properly working body fractures

it should work really well for Pachy

[hollow canyon]

I don't believe Carno to be an ambusher

[alpine plover]

carno seems like it would be a decent runner, especially with those legs

[sinful cove]

Yeah body frac is useless af, if it did something like knock stam down and put a cap on it with scaling severities it could be less bad

[hollow canyon]

body frac is just bugged, tested it

[alpine plover]

its fast, but a little more stamina wouldn't be awful. just something to keep it running for a little longer

[hollow canyon]

the QA know about it

it will get fixed but when it does Pachy will need some nerfs

like seriously - that animal will be way too good if it's left in this state and the body fracture is fixed on top of that

[alpine plover]

pachy should be relying on its fractures anyhow, not stun locking a 2 ton animal to death

[hollow canyon]

^

I don't think Carno needs to be running a little longer

it's ok the way it is now... more or less

[sinful cove]

Pachy needs a noisier charge and a recovery for a miss + it shouldnt be stunlocking which i tested and can still do so we need diminishing returns across the board to also prevent future problems with animals who utilize cc

Like as a sub pachy i stunlocked some utah i found on the beach

[hollow canyon]

what it needs is either changes to its acceleration or its agility, it definitely needs a walking/standing turn rate buff

[hollow canyon]

I think a noisier charge is irrelevant

[sinful cove]

Makes it less of an ambush predator

It shoots out of bushes silent as an assassin for some reason

[alpine plover]

it just needs its fracture values buffed (body fracture) and the animal itself nerfed a tad

[hollow canyon]

it's the stun that's problematic, it should last much shorter and it should not chain-stack

[alpine plover]

since they wanted to make pachy defensive

[hollow canyon]

I don't think it needs "Fracture values" buffed

it just needs to have the body fractures fixed

they are literally broken and don't work as intended right now

I've reported it to the QA and they confirmed after testing that this mechanic doesn't work as intended

[hollow canyon]

I don't view that as an issue tbh

If a Pachy hides well enough and ambushes something - good for it

[alpine plover]

Pachys aren’t usually smart enough to ambush people, at least from what I’ve seen

the average pachy player is like dumb as a rock

[sinful cove]

I almost got caught by a pachy ambush

[hollow canyon]

if I'm on the plains and I see a Carno looking for me, I will want to ambush it and fracture it before I start getting out

[alpine plover]

will just constantly spam alt and ram until it runs out of stamina and 4 calls to get its stego and teno friends over

[sinful cove]

They were using corpses to bait people and then they came out of the bushes surrounding the area to lynch mob people, i took off just in time because i was already wary lol

[hollow canyon]

Well yea herbivores mixing is just pure cancer in the current meta

[alpine plover]

if a herbivore is in a mega herd the chances of it being bad is rather high

[hollow canyon]

they are already very strong on their own and then you have to deal with a mixherd of them

[alpine plover]

it’s like they’re trying to make this game un enjoyable

[hollow canyon]

It's the same people doing most of this I suspect

the same people that had mixpacks of Stegos/Carnos/Utahs and Deinos running around the map on Update 3

the same people that had enormous Carno hordes devastating the MT servers

[alpine plover]

Tbh even with the diets “resolved” in the next 8,000 years people are still going to mixpack no matter what

[hollow canyon]

they always just jump at whichever the best combo of animals is and abuse that to ruin the game for everyone else

[alpine plover]

you are certainly going to see rexes with ceratos and shants at some point, if the game even gets that far

[dusky surge]

with carno, my primary issue isn't even the hunger drain, it's the fact that your stomach, as a "small game hunter" gains nothing from small game

if its primary survival tactic is to be, you know, eating small things, then those small things should reward decent hunger fill

[spare badger]

Carnos stomach should just be shrunk if they are to keep the small game hunter niche

Or something to do with gore

[fresh laurel]

hooman

well actually nvm humans did endurance hunting before right?

[fresh laurel]

"carno is like a hypo without the buffs"- Me, 2022

[slim dragon]

Humans aren't remarkably fast tho

[fresh laurel]

oh it was cus of everyone saying a carnivore thats faster should have more stamina then the slower prey

i thought humans broke the rule but i remembered endurance hunting

[spare badger]

Yes

[fresh laurel]

yup then slower animals got the stamina so it means how would carno out stam le pachy

[slim dragon]

Because herbis aren't allowed to survive and encounter with a carni

[fresh laurel]

Good thing its the opposite rn

[placid reef]

yes bc we can sweat

[alpine plover]

@hexed sorrel the reason stego hunts are so hard is cause of its broken hit box. The tail is able to hit places it really shouldn’t

[fresh laurel]

@deep vine

sup now we deal with 5 sec cd

[deep vine]

really lolz

ok so a general perk used for all, can be at the cost of more stamina and loosing food quicker, you can either do more damage or be quicker in all aspects whether swimming or on land

[fresh laurel]

so uh deino oxygen time buff

[deep vine]

ya what would be the debuff of it to counter the buff.

[fresh laurel]

more dmg when swimming?

dunno how that would work for land only creatures

[deep vine]

@fresh laurelno i meant for all dinos, bassically it makes your dino (not only deinos but all dinos) strong or fast but you loose food quicker and stam quicker

but if you choose the speed one it increases speed in water and land.

[fresh laurel]

ooh

[deep vine]

now to balance i dont think herbi's should get as big of a buff of the speed or attack as carnis, mainly because its harder to feed carnis.

mainly because herbi's food doesnt run or fight back.

[fresh laurel]

wait!

[deep vine]

but the oxygen buff, what would be a good debuff for that option.

[fresh laurel]

i dont think it should increase all dino speeds in water

i think should only be for semis only

but on land more stam but more hunger drain sure

[fresh laurel]

nah i think in general deino should have one

but if that were a perk...

probably being slower when swimming fast ig

[deep vine]

ok. or even have it where it doesnt increase your speed but your stam goes up but your hunger runs out quicker

so like a carno can have more stam but need to eat more

[fresh laurel]

uhhh no one carno would use that perk rn tbh

[deep vine]

agreed, but maybe when there are more AI, they would

but anyways, what about the oxygen buff, what should be its corresponding debuff

[fresh laurel]

carno needs hunger needs reduced

its whole thing of hunting small tiers only doesnt fill it enough rn

it has to target tenos now to be full if theres 2 carnos

ai wont really help since it would make carno kill all ai causing other carnivores who need ai to starve

[deep vine]

honestly ya, honestly in general all food needs to be increased, to feed an adult 100 deino right now from 0 percent food, would require 25 big fish.

25 big fish is larger than an entire adult deino

[fresh laurel]

bro do you see what utah has to eat to become full from 0 to 100

dryo doesnt even fill utah up to full

dryo is bigger than utah belly

so imagine feeding the giant utah packs

you also take 10 years to eat that the chunks your dino pulls out from meat is more than your belly should hold

[deep vine]

no i agree like i said meat food needs to be increased or the time it takes to get hungry needs to be decreased by a lot

[fresh laurel]

both

the idea of this encouraging pvp was dumb tbh

this is a survival game not some death match thing

[deep vine]

honestly they should make it a server setting. like most survival games

[fresh laurel]

devs thinking making you take longer to eat would be a loved idea was kinda bad

[fresh laurel]

exactly

global chat should come back as a setting imo

but ik why it was hated

[deep vine]

that too, like there should be global then you can change it to species so you only chat to your fellow species then even a herbi and carni chat. the only thing i can see why it was hated was because it probably made mix packing harder, but most mix packers are in a discord together anyways

[fresh laurel]

if they gonna remove global chat like this at least bring back pack only chat smh

ok we getting off topic now

[deep vine]

ya, so about oxygen buff and debuff, maybe you can hold your breath longer but it takes longer to get it back

[fresh laurel]

thats the best con in a good way

ok so teno slam nerf but kick fracture

[deep vine]

maybe kick fracture, only on certain sizes

[fresh laurel]

i think tail slam should have more endlag if kick wont get fracture anytime soon

you know so teno isnt too nice to new players who dont time something

[deep vine]

agreed, sorry to say this also, but with most carni's (except utah's) being lone hunters, and herbis being mainly pack dinos. Maybe make it where the carnis should be somewhat supperior but herbis get a buff by being in a certain radius of its fellow species

[wise sparrow]

"Um excuse me!? you killed that fresh spawn dryo back there utah pack!? you cant hunt that wounded stego!!!"

[fresh laurel]

switches chat to local only

no problem smh

[barren oracle]

Dryo is boring and isn’t played. Its not goin in anyones stomach

[fresh laurel]

when it does explain it not making utah full

[barren oracle]

Nah that’s just isle being bad

[fresh laurel]

thats like forcing a irl human to eat something as heavy as them for them to feel full

[barren oracle]

Food values ass

[deep vine]

ya i died as a full grown deino and my friend was also full grown deino, he consumed me and it didnt even get him to full

[fresh laurel]

worst part is he only got one nutrient from that

sometimes I wonder how someone on the dev teamed said the carnivore diet system was a ok!

[deep vine]

@fresh laurelright

[fresh laurel]

diets should of came with gore :<

im pretty hyped for what gore can bring to help with hunts and eating

[ripe furnace]

Why were all public servers removed

[deep vine]

@ripe furnacewhat do you mean

[ripe furnace]

I only see officials in evrima

[stark knoll]

Select the unofficial option from thr drop-down menu on the right side

[ripe furnace]

Wow thank you fam

[deep vine]

ah ok ya what the admin said

[dusky surge]

Why would you feel the need to reply to a question that was already solved with a reference to the answer already given

[crimson dune]

@full eagle are you joking? Leg fractures are already easy to get and last long enough, you can even provoke leg fractures by hitting the tail, THE TAIL, 3 hours of growing a carno tossed to the garbage

@hexed sorrel while I agree that bites to the head of a stego should have multipliers, this should be done so carnos and deinos can kill stegos easier, not utahs, with utah you should still need to make the stego bleed in order to kill it, utahs are too agile and fast, if they were able to make big damage to stego, utah would be 5 times more op over stego than stego is currently over utah

[fresh laurel]

How many pounces does it take to bleed out stego anyways?

[crimson dune]

Idk, but he was talking about only being viable to pounce to kill stego, and I havent hunt stego us utah but I guess 10 pounces or something like that, but it can be very variable, it depende in how much stam stego uses, it can be a short fight if stego is running with bleeding, or a long one if stego stays still just tail swinging

[dusky surge]

@alpine plover carno has the second best trot speed in the game

second only to teno

[alpine plover]

Does it? Doesn’t feel very fast

Might just be a me problem

[dusky surge]

it feels less fast because the camera is really high off the ground compared to every other animal

[alpine plover]

A lot of the trots feel slow tbf

Then it should still get some of its stamina back

[crimson dune]

Trot seems slower thw bigger the dino is

[alpine plover]

The main problem I’ve seen most Carno players struggle with is you run out of stamina so fast that if you need to run away it’s just too easy for Tenos/Pachys to chase

[crimson dune]

Yeah is the main problem, the dino based on running, can't run more than 100 metres

[alpine plover]

The runner of the game can’t run without needing to stop so your opponents can catch up in the race

[dusky surge]

i'd only accept more stam if its stam regen was slower

because its resting regen is real fucking fast

[alpine plover]

That’s true

[crimson dune]

Carno objectively should have more stam, and stam regen is only good with perfect diet

[alpine plover]

The main reason is also the fact that the entire roster of herbivores is just the pure anti Dino’s

Mainly Teno/pachy

They are meant to be more powerful in their tier which ends up not going so well for Carno/Utah

[crimson dune]

It wouldnt be fair carno is dead if not hitting the charge because of slow stam regen, while pachy and teno can fail their strongest attack with almost no consequences

[alpine plover]

Well, if a pachy is trying to headbutt someone, if it misses it leaves a big opportunity for another member to bite it

But yes Carno charge is just designed poorly compared to headbutt/Tailslam

[crimson dune]

In a 1vs1 it would be fair but usually is a 3 or 4 vs 1

Lonely pachys are too pussy to attack a carno

[alpine plover]

Lol true

[crimson dune]

And why the fuck does pachy caused me a leg fractures by hitting the tip of my tail

[alpine plover]

Carno charge needs to be able to be used when not full speed, just has a bigger damage output the more charged up it is.

There needs to be a tail fracture

[dusky surge]

why

[crimson dune]

Tails are in dinos for stabilize so tail fracture could affect that

If carno is not buffed, no one will play it when cerato comes to the game

[dusky surge]

that is

without a doubt

the stupidest analysis of these two animals ever

cerato will likely
A: Get fucking BODIED in a 1v1 between itself and carno due to being much slower and smaller
B: Be a far less effective hunter than carno with a focus more on bullying, corpse theft and scavenging
C: Generally provide an extremely separate experience from carno

[alpine plover]

Cera vs Carno is very situational

Cera will most likely have good turning which already gives it a good chance against Carno

However in a pure 1v1 cera gets bodied

[dusky surge]

If carno charges cera once or catches it in an open field, cera is more than likely outright dead

[alpine plover]

Yes

However I don’t see it entirely out of the ordinary for a Cera to just dodge attacks and bite

With a pitbull thrash

It’s the people that think Ceratorex is a good idea

[placid reef]

keep in mind just agility only gets you so far, cera is a large creature so a bigger target

[crimson dune]

I'm not talking about 1vs1 , carno would win a cera easy but I not talking about that, cera has better survavility than carno

[placid reef]

crea isnt locked into 1 biome in the first place

and can scavange even for rotten food

[dusky surge]

cera goes wherever the scent of decay takes it

it also likes water

[crimson dune]

Carno is a better hunter but cant hunt shit cause it is always not strong enough or not maneuverable enough

[crimson dune]

Cera is not bigger

[placid reef]

i never said in comparison to what, just that its a big target

[crimson dune]

We were talking about carno vs cera so most people would guess you are comparing their size

[hollow canyon]

No, he said the larger something is the easier it is to hit the charge on it

I personally don't think it would matter

with good agility Cerato won't have to worry about being charged much if at all with how current Carno is

I wouldn't be surprised if it was possible to 1v1 the current Carno

I'd like to have that dinosaur already in the game, hopefully at least it will be good cause all the other carnivores are either trash or flat out boring or both

[crimson dune]

Why am I under the impression that when someone asks for a carno buff everyone starts thinking they want to make the isle's carno like this carno?

[alpine plover]

Carnorex

[slim dragon]

Quite literally, since Diney Dinosaur's carno was originally supposed to be a rex

[glad ginkgo]

Everybody really do be hating on my stego suggestions lmao

[slim dragon]

Well there is no reason, gameplay nor realism-wise, that stego couldn't swim

Whales are much more than 6 tons yet they manage to swim
Deino is over 6 tons too, yet you don't say that it shouldn't be able to swim

[alpine plover]

I think the main problem is water is too shallow and Stego can walk in most water ways

[spare oak]

yes

[spare badger]

Map issue

[spare badger]

I mean you said it shouldn't swim. Even sauropods can swim, there is no reason stego shouldn't be able to in order to pander to deino...

[wise sparrow]

@hexed sorrel how many swings would that limit stego to? And what would the time in between swings be to be counted as spamming?

[hollow canyon]

My brain refused to work after I read this

[spare badger]

I mean he picked the most aquatic animals

A better example is Sauropods being able to swim

[hollow canyon]

Funnily enough - thyreophorans were actually incapable of swimming so...

really, really poor examples either way

neither is a whale nor a deinosuchus a thyreophoran, stego on the other hand...

[alpine plover]

Just make very big land apexs like stego and Rex slow swimmers

And actual deep water

[hollow canyon]

Rex could actually swim relatively well btw

[alpine plover]

Apex’s should be bad swimmers so they get screwed over by a Deino if swimming

If a Rex decides to swim in a lake or swamp, it might as well give up once a deino approaches it

Besides spino which should be deinos main predator

[hollow canyon]

considering how the game works...

#doubt

cancel that, let me rephrase - #bigdoubt

[slim dragon]

I was just saying this to show that the argument of weight is completely irrelevant when it comes to swimming

[spare badger]

Sauropods are a better example

[slim dragon]

Yeah but we have no actual proof that they are good swimmers
Even if it's pretty likely, it's still just speculation

[spare badger]

Don't we have evidence for it though? Like a trackway where it's front legs were the only part of it hitting the ground

Cause it was swimming

[slim dragon]

I wouldn't consider anything relating to paleontology as evidence, even if it's a 90% probability

[spare badger]

What would I call it?

[hollow canyon]

there was a study on this, sauropods could indeed swim, iirc ceratopsians and thyreophorans are the only dinosaurs that we think would sink if they tried swimming

[fresh laurel]

why did the trike try to cross the river? it wanted to go 6 feet under

[fresh laurel]

I think we can all agree people want pachy nerfs

[wise sparrow]

Pachy doesn't need nerfs but stuns need a rework and it needs more punishment for missing.

Right now pachy can just flail wildly and eventually get a stun off which equals certain death

[fresh laurel]

i think pachy stats are fine (slight speed nerf) but its ram is just too easy to land fractures and stun

pachy can accelerate fine while trying to ram

has low endlag when it misses

pachy can move full speed when ramming

ramming can stun you by tail hits

[dusky surge]

people want pachy nerfs but they all want to do extremely weird shit to do that

[spare badger]

Makes sense, although I doubt that smaller ones like kentro would sink

[hollow canyon]

They probably would, their ability to float or sink doesn't have that much to do with weight I think

[crimson dune]

Deino cant drawn a rex and rex has a stronger bite, it wouldnt be viable for the deino, even if It manages to kill the rex, deino would end up extremely damaged

[lapis bear]

Yeah well, there SHOULD be a limit of what a Deino can drag underwater. And I think Rex is too big.

If it can’t carry an adult Stego, why should they be able to do drag a Rex?

[alpine plover]

I never said drag underwater, I said if a Rex is stupid enough to go swimming the deino should be able to kill it, not drag it

[peak portal]

can you optimize the game please, because I have a friend with whom I was playing only now that when he spawns on the map his textures are not loaded at all and he can't play

[primal dove]

Well it's an APEX that has to hunt big game otherwise it's not worthy of the title apex and should become a mid tier. Deino needs some way to efficiently kill apexes, it not being able to lunge things just bc they're too big is not an excuse. It also takes 5h to grow and growing 5h just to kill smalls and mids in the most boring way is a straight up bad design.

[slim dragon]

Deino isn't an apex and isn't supposed to be able to "reliably kill apexes"

[placid reef]

deino is an apex actually

[lapis bear]

Deino can’t kill an adult Stego, y’all saying it’s an apex?

[placid reef]

its 3rd or 4th heaviest carni (depending on where giga sits bc i forgot)

[slim dragon]

Weight doesn't mean apex

[lapis bear]

There should be creatures it can’t kill. Or at least have a hard time doing so, enough that players could consider leaving instead of risking injury

[slim dragon]

An apex is a creature that sits on the top of the food chain, that has no predators. It's been stated that spino will prey on deino, hence deino is not an apex.

[hollow canyon]

Giga biggerer

[placid reef]

you know apexes doesnt mean they have to be able to kill the shit out other apexes, just means they are the best/ top end of the class/ niche, deino isnt meant (rn bc who knows down the line) stuff bigger that 4t, also you say a croc isnt an apex bc it cant kill hippos, rhinos or elephants?

[slim dragon]

No cause irl elephants, rhinos and hippos don't prey on crocs

[placid reef]

and the only one that would maybe be is spino but i wouldnt hold what they say rn, remember faster than allo?

and all the other stuff they said with time...

[lapis bear]

What?

[placid reef]

to which part?

[lapis bear]

Spino will live on water, so I think it’s just natural to assume it will prey on Deinos

Faster than allo thing
Didn’t know that

[placid reef]

i mean with current deino spino is straight up better in literally every way, so they either rework deino or just remove it (this with the more speculative stuff we know so far for spino)

[placid reef]

ye thats what they said when talking about maggy, and oh boy what a meme that has become, thats what i was refering to, not deino/ spino beeing faster than allo lol

[lapis bear]

Why would they remove it or rework?
Sucho is still planned for playable, and it’s basically a smaller Spino

I think Deinos are going to habitat better rivers, and Spino are sticking with lakes and swamps because there’s more space

And they don’t rely on muddy waters to hunt

[placid reef]

sucho, at least looking at the model really doesnt look adapted for swimming like deino is, i mean deino is just gonna be a better swimmer and also almost double the weight and better bite, sucho would have better land speed than either spino or deino so more versatility

[hollow canyon]

I just want to point out that the term "apex" means generally something else in the bio-ecological sense and something else in the game.

In terms of ecology it is as @slim dragon says - the animal that is on the top of the food chain and has no natural predators.

[placid reef]

ye here its always been used for the largest palaybles, literally, which has the most health and damage so taking an irl aproach on it is redundant

[hollow canyon]

However realistically speaking that is not what this word means in the game

In the game it is a remnant of the progression where "an apex" was the animal that was sitting on the top of a progression tree.

[lapis bear]

Progression tree?

[hollow canyon]

That's why T.rex, Spinosaurus, Giganotosaurus(and even the herbivores like Triceratops) were apexes

[placid reef]

way before survival, like pre 2018 i think

[hollow canyon]

The Isle used to have a different game mode called progression

in this game mode you had to first play e.g. velociraptor before you could progress to herrerasaurus, utahraptor, allosaurus and so on

at the ends of that progression tree you had the apexes which were the animals that lead to no other animals

well... until the end where you started having the strains at the very top but you get the idea

[placid reef]

ah the good days when every server was filled with strains and you just started as velo/ taco...

[hollow canyon]

Were servers filled with strains at the time?

I've played only at the very end of the progression and I didn't see any strains on the progression servers tbh

[placid reef]

i remember a lot of the ones i played where filled with strains, like i think i played a few months after it was launched

[hollow canyon]

I've only ever seen the strains on the survival servers on the dev-branch(obviously controlled by the devs)

I've seen a Hyperendocrine rex on the very first day when I played the game and Hyperendocrine Giga when people started megapacking on one of the official servers at some point.

[placid reef]

in general i hated it a lot back then, granted it was also very ealry in its lifespan, so getting around was atorcious, the map felt as empty as evrima now or more so, could walk for 1-2h and find at best a random austro and once a shantm water was a pain bc no smelling and i can just go on, early progression def wasnt that fun

the fact that the yt vids also kinda lied to me didnt help either

[hollow canyon]

Don't get me wrong, I think the progression the way it was implemented in this game was absolutely atrocious and I'm not surprised that the majority of the playerbase prefers survival to it.

But I do think that when properly implemented progression is potentially the better of the two game modes.

[primal dove]

Why does it take 5h to grow then? So stego isn't apex then aswell?

[primal dove]

Well this isn't modern day survival, and tbh shant would be the elephant of the ecosystem and stego would be smth. like idk maybe a moose or so

[primal dove]

Bruh, utahs hunt stegos so stego isn't an apex? Allos will kill rex so rex isn't an apex?

Just make deino a mid tier if u guys want ur stegos to be unkillable bastions. Apexes are big fat and slow, build to deal a lot of dmg while having good resistence at the cost of mobility. An ambush predator is nothing like that.

[slim dragon]

Deino is literally an ambush predator tho
You forgot stealth, which is an important element

[primal dove]

that's what I'm saying. And being big in small rivers counters ur stealth element

[slim dragon]

Deino is just a croc, that acts like a croc, but upsized so it can be a threat to multiple-ton dinos
Nothing else

[primal dove]

We just need a bigger map and bigger rivers, deino having a death roll as an attack so it can actually potentally kill stuff like stego and that's it.

Why grow for 5h so u can oneshot mid tiers in the most boring way ever

Let it kill other apexes

[slim dragon]

A more proper tug-of-war mechanic would be better than instantly ripping off the head of something that took 5 hours to grow

[primal dove]

Well, a stego can position it so that it won't get hit head on, but then a deino might jump its body and rip out great amounts of flesh which would also lead to potential death. Tug of war would be sick tho yea, but stegos actually have to fear other predators like utah or deino cuz otherwise they become walking gods which shouldn't be the case.

[delicate ridge]

im outside the map

what do i do help

I just spawned at this location: and can't get in. Location −55 337,906, 10 862,056, −30 113,682 on eu2

[primal dove]

#evrima-eu #evrima-na #evrima-sa #evrima-au

[primal dove]

don't write them in here, players can just go there now and kill you

contact an admin on #evrima-eu

[delicate ridge]

They can't since theres like this blue thing

[primal dove]

huh ahh wait

[delicate ridge]

and i can't get in there, im seriously stuck outside the map

like i spawned in outside the map when i presse dto join eu2

pressed to*

[primal dove]

yea just contact an admin on #evrima-eu

[delicate ridge]

kk

[primal dove]

but there is none of them online so I guess you'll have to wait a bit

[barren oracle]

You a juvie utah?

[delicate ridge]

yes

[barren oracle]

yeah try restart your game and rejoin

[delicate ridge]

did

twice

[barren oracle]

probably just gon have to wait for an admin

wait Krows online

[delicate ridge]

ye

[primal dove]

Why do ppl hate deino so much lol

[spare badger]

Cause it's a bad playable

It one shots half the cast with 0 real counterplay

You're just forced to either not interact with it or die

No interaction makes it a boring playable
And the fact that half the cast gets.0 counterplay makes it a poorly designed playable

[azure crescent]

what about stego?

it's basically the same but on land

[spare badger]

Problem with stego is it's too big for the current roster
Deino just doesn't work

[primal dove]

I mean there should be little chance escaping a deinos lunge but for that there is little chance actually getting lunged by a deino

[azure crescent]

they put deino in too early imo

[fresh laurel]

Idk how carno or teno would escape deino grab tbh

[azure crescent]

i can see a teno freeing itself from a deino grab but a carno not so much since it has basically no forelimbs

[fresh laurel]

Yea

Plus teno fast swimmer

[glad ginkgo]

Not a true apex like a trike

[spare badger]

That's just bad game design
Some form of counterplay like your group members being able to free you by doing x amount of damage or something

So the counterplay would be to have a group
Still not great design but better than nothing

[primal dove]

Deino just needs to be able to kill stego that's all we need, utahs can take on a lone stego and sometimes even 2 if both of the stegos are dumb (which they are) however deino should be the absolute stego killer for this patch just bc there are no other apex carnis in the game currently

Stego also has got a really bad game design, it's legit just press RMB and oneshot everything in ur way while being an unkillable bastion, is that what u guys call a good game design?

[fresh laurel]

Teno slamming deino head should force deino to let go and carno ramming deino should force a let go and utah getting a good pounce should to

Basically using your special move on deino head should save your friend

[primal dove]

1 single tail slam shouldn't be enough to let a deino release its prey, that things weighs like 8 tons and has one of the strongest jaws ever, maybe a little more tail slams to the head or maybe to a specific body part, maybe smth. like a critical nerve point or so

[barren oracle]

It really isnt counterable logically

[fresh laurel]

I didnt say one lol

Just said if i had to pick moves to save friends against deino it would be those

[deep vine]

if anything the utah pouncing, and hitting the eyes would make sense, but everything else it would take a lot of hits.

[fresh laurel]

I mean utah ripping into your ribs would be very annoying you gotta admit

Plus crocs and gatirs are weaker there

Soooo...

[sinful cove]

now how the hell is ptera supposed to grab up elite fish and juvies without it looking stupid. it already looks stupid carrying some of the schooling fish when its younger

why does pt need to grab juvies when that isnt its diet anyway

and a pt knocking over a juvie stego? bruh thats like throwing a wet paper bag at somebody to try to knock them over

[wise sparrow]

He liked his own suggestion so his entire argument is irrelevant

[sinful cove]

true lol

[deep vine]

i can see them picking up a baby new spawn utah but other wise nah

[sinful cove]

people gotta be patient and wait for quetz because it would be a way better child abductor

[wise sparrow]

I do see ptera eating small hatchlings/eggs. Seeing as it appears to have a vulture like duet it will probably eat anything it can safely eat

[dusky surge]

Deino is an apex and I honestly hate the idea of it being "hunted" by spino lmao.

[dusky surge]

curious, how would you personally address progression? It's quite the controversial topic since the original implementation burned people so bad

[fresh laurel]

Think deino adult shouldnt be a viable meal but lil deinos should

But thats my opinion ig

[hollow canyon]

I think I spoke about it a couple of times but in general - it would be point based, you go back one tier without losing points upon death which means that you lose some progress but not all of it

[dusky surge]

I don't count being able to eat the little bastard as being a full on predator

[fresh laurel]

What was bad about og progression
Im a 2019 player

[hollow canyon]

you use the points to progress to the next stage

[dusky surge]

sucho could potentially kill and eat deino babies, it doesn't make it a deino hunter

[hollow canyon]

you can technically e.g. play herrera for 20 hours straight and progress straight to T.rex if you feel like doing so, but you can't just start playing T.rex straight away

[fresh laurel]

Im just saying adult deinos would mostly be left alone from preditors

[dusky surge]

Yea, in which case it's an apex

Since its at the top of a food chain and has no real predators as an adult specimen

Spino actively hunting deino has always sounded stupid af to me

[fresh laurel]

Wouldnt deino bite harder than spino if more apexes come?

[dusky surge]

Spino somehow having the necessary mobility to catch a deino along with the necessary damage to kill one in a pursuit sounds dumb as

[fresh laurel]

Spino might be pretty slow in water so idk

But if its faster and hits harder than deino

Then thats a problem

[spare badger]

Apparently Spino will shitstomp Deino, and spino is nowhere near as fast as a Croc, even irl aquatic spino

No way imposter rex with a spino costume can catch a Croc in the water

[crimson dune]

Spino should have the bite force of a mid carni

[slim dragon]

Spino shouldn't rely on its bite to hunt at all

[dusky surge]

^

spino having a strong bite would be simply absurd

[undone rapids]

It should lunge out from the water and drown smaller animals

[crimson dune]

small would be dryo size, a spino has not a good bite force for grabbing something like carno

The problem with spino is we don't know what kind of spino they want to make, a hunter spino, or piscivore spino strong enough to defend itself and hunt small prey when there's no way to find fish like after a drought

[crimson dune]

Sucho should be strong enough to make deino retreat but no too strong e that it would make deinos fear them

[dusky surge]

ehhh

not retreat, it just shouldn't be worth the effort

[slim dragon]

Isn't deino around double of Sucho's size tho ?

An adult one could easily facetank sucho, even with its current biteforce

[dusky surge]

if sucho is over 4 tons it should be safe enough from deino

[slim dragon]

Even if sucho is under 4 tons, I doubt deino would be able to drown one
Just because it will probably be able to hold its breath for long enough

[dusky surge]

i hope sucho is more than 4 tons tho

[crimson dune]

Deal

[dusky surge]

sucho being strong enough to scare off deino sounds comical ngl

if a sucho is being a cocky little bastard, it should die to a deino

[crimson dune]

I said it shouldn't be atron enough to make deinoa fear them

[slim dragon]

I say sucho should be just strong enough so that deinos wont' attack them because it wouldn't be worth the effort and suffered injuries

[dusky surge]

making deino retreat is already too much lmao

[slim dragon]

But the problem is that for Isle players, winning a fight with 1% health left is worth it

[crimson dune]

On the other hand spino ahould be able to kill deino but it would finish very injured, also deino shouldn't be on spino diet

[slim dragon]

I disagree, spino should definitely be able to make deinos cower in fear
So that waters where there are spinos are safe from deinos, and allow for a healthy underwater ecosystem

[crimson dune]

I aaid i agree it should just not be worth it

[crimson dune]

Yeah, as I said spino would kill them

[dusky surge]

Spino should kill deinos who approach it, but fail at actually hunting them

[slim dragon]

If they have somewhere to run yeah

[crimson dune]

Deino shouldnt be on spino's diet, so if a spino kills a deino it would be deino's fault for fighting one

[slim dragon]

I hope by the time spino gets in we no longer have those shitty shopping-list diets for carnivores

[crimson dune]

I think diet is ok with carnivores except one of carno's nutrient that you can only get by killing dryos and an ai, is impossible to get it

[dusky surge]

Nah it's pretty lame

[slim dragon]

The fact carnis need to kill specific prey is both un-immersive and horrible for gameplay

There is nothing good about being a hungry carni, seeing a weak and small dino come in front of you and say "nah, I can't eat it, it's not on my diet"

[undone rapids]

I was kidding

[crimson dune]

The dinos that are not in the diet should fill hunger without any debuffs

[slim dragon]

They do, but it's lame because you absolutely need to follow your diet to be viable

[crimson dune]

Debuffs should be only from decomposed corpses

[undone rapids]

rotting corpses

[slim dragon]

And since stomach space is limited, unless you're absolutely starving, it's always better to just pass and look for something that is on your diet, which is dumb

[undone rapids]

Highly likely multiple dynamic tiers in "rotting"

[crimson dune]

The problem is perfect diet makes the dino how they were before diet was introduced, for example growth time with perfect diet is the same growth time of update 3, it should be the other way

[slim dragon]

That's not even relevant. Stats are what they are, you need the highest stats possible in order to be able to compete with other dinos with the highest stats possible. As many people say, meat is meat. Having predators need to look for ONE specific prey (even 2, 3 or 10), as long as it's limited to specific species) is stupid and makes no sense. What makes it so a dino will become stronger by eating deer meat, but boar meat will do nothing ? And what's so different between hypsi meat and dryo meat to justify them being on different dino's diet lists ?

[crimson dune]

Is made that way so herbis are not the only one that need to eat different things, even if it makes sense for herbis but not for carnis

[slim dragon]

But they don't even have the same way of finding food. It's justified for herbis because their food doesn't run away, and it doesn't require other players to play that specific species. Also, that's (hopefully) what the gore system will be for.

[crimson dune]

Gore will make perfect diet even harder for carnis, as if you scanvenge rotting corpses of your diet you are not going to get nutrients but will get debuffs

[slim dragon]

Not if it also makes the diet system better for carnis, like separating different meat types or body parts instead of species.

Like having organs fill pretty much every carni's three nutrients, with lower and lower quality meat being more specific in terms of its benefits.

And obviously, rotten meat being beneficial only for scavenger species

[crimson dune]

All want for gore update is that it stops body guarding for good

[slim dragon]

We have different priorities then, because I think carni gameplay not being an absolute chore is more important

[dusky surge]

Update 3 growth time was way too short, the fact people thought it was going to be even shorter with diets was ridiculous imho

[dusky surge]

It won’t

[crimson dune]

Is a chore because we need food every 5 minutes

[crimson dune]

Obviously people can still body guard but they will be punished for that

Is not good for a herbivore to be close to a corpses infected with lots of virus and bacteria

[dusky surge]

I really hope they don’t do that lmao

Can't wait to be debuffed after killing 2 oviraptors trying to invade my nest and be completely incapable of negating said debuffs

[crimson dune]

Well devs have to do something to stop body guarding, if its not this option it will be another

[dusky surge]

Do they?

Why not just stop there being one big-ass hotspot

Or add predators that would scare animals away from standing next to bodies

Rather than punish herbivores for no reason because a small subset does one annoying thing

[crimson dune]

Small subject? Most herbivores do bodyguarding

[mild basin]

a 80% carno dying to 3 tail slams from teno super balanced

[fresh laurel]

Our spino design looks like it would be using its claws

[crimson dune]

Real spino also used claws

[fresh laurel]

Ok....

[fresh laurel]

This aint real spino no more

This is aquatic rex

[crimson dune]

I know, but you said the rex spino of the isle looks like it will use claws when real spino also used claws

[fresh laurel]

Idk what to tell you

[sinful cove]

Isle spino looks like it would be no better at swimming than an allo

[glass crag]

Perhaps if herbs hang around dead bodies for too long it will make them sick. Losing all their nutrients would be a reason to not body guard?

[sinful cove]

Thats been discussed a lot already and such a system would either be abuseable, easily bypassable or both

[crimson dune]

With gore for example, bacteria that cant be tolerated by herbis but yes by carnivores

[mild basin]

make herbis actually move around the map not just camp pond

[crimson dune]

that still dont fix body guarding

[mild basin]

I know but im not talking about body guarding,

[brittle dirge]

so have Spino be Deino 2.0 then? may as well just delete one of them if they're going to be doing the exact same thing lol

[dusky surge]

it was a joke lmao

[alpine plover]

How tf is deino similar to spino

[brittle dirge]

ah

[spare badger]

Def shouldn't scare off a deino but deino wouldn't even try because it would be too annoying to try and kill it

[alpine plover]

Sucho vs deino is like a 50/50 depending on how the interaction goes. It could go both ways

Probably more in the sucho’s favor though

[spare badger]

Nah no way sucho wins unless there are 2

Deino just can't kill a sucho if the sucho decides it doesn't want to die

It can just walk away and tank a few hits

But sucho can't kill a Deino either

[alpine plover]

Your saying sucho can’t kill deino but deino can’t kill sucho? Makes sense

So it’s a 50/50 fight

[spare badger]

No that's not what I mean
If they try to fight Deino wins
But if 1 doesnt want to fight the other cant do anything

It's just too easy to avoid eachother is what I mean

I'm explaining this poorly

[alpine plover]

If a sucho went straight into a fight with a deino, the deino would win a bit more than sucho would

But on land sucho claps deino

[spare badger]

I don't see how sucho can clap Deino on land cause of the existence of alt bite

And sucho isn't very mobile at all

[alpine plover]

Deino is horrible on land

I think sucho would probably have more health while deino had the more powerful bite

[spare badger]

Sucho can't maneuver around its mouth though
And in a facetanking battle deino will win

[spare badger]

Sucho is ~4 tons
Deino is like 6

No way sucho gets more health lmao

[alpine plover]

Have you seen deino fights on land

[spare badger]

This one doesn't have the weights but no way sucho will ever have more health

[spare badger]

Alt bite the game

But sucho can't avoid it cause sucho is slow

[alpine plover]

Teno can deal loads of damage with tail slam against it

[spare badger]

Sucho isn't a Utah so cant avoid it

It's the same deal with stego
No way sucho can fight stego

[alpine plover]

Deino alt bite isn’t the most effective thing

Sucho could probably bait bites and then bite the tail

[spare badger]

Tail bites won't do much though
And sucho can't bleed it out cause deino is resistant to bleed

[spare badger]

As much as I want sucho to mess up Deino it's not going to work

[fresh laurel]

I really cant see sucho killing deino tbh

Like i cant

[slim dragon]

It's easy to picture tho
Sucho attacks deino
Sucho attacks Deino
Sucho attacks Deino
Sucho attack Deino
Sucho attacks Deino
Deino dies (it was afk)

[fresh laurel]

Takes more bites

[spare badger]

Sucho should get a really strong claw attack

[fresh laurel]

I think thats bary

Sucho could have stronk tail tho

[spare badger]

No

Have you seen suchos claws

Bary has long pointy ones

[azure crescent]

bary's claws are for fish specifically, while sucho's are more fitted for general use

[spare badger]

Look at these things

[fresh laurel]

Bary is isle bary now

So we dont know how devs would handle em

I can see bary claws doing big bleed

[azure crescent]

yeah but in terms of sheer damage sucho would be better for combat

[fresh laurel]

Close combat sucho woupd be doing more dmg

Bary has agility and bleed tho

[azure crescent]

true

[alpine plover]

Bary=semi aquatic fast bleeder
Sucho=semi aquatic bear

Bary can be a fast bleeder who either ambushes you from the water or on land. Sucho is just bear who wrestles

[hexed sorrel]

maybe around 7-8 consecutive swings would run it out and if it conserves is maybe it could swing like 20 times and the time in between would be like uhhh 5 seconds? I would imagine the consecutive swing punishment reduces the longer time bewteen swings. and it caps out at like 5 seconds I suppose. but 7-8 is spam clicking.

edit: sorry for late response

[crimson dune]

sucho should not kill deino, but it should be able to not be kill by deino,the real deino threat should only be spino

[azure crescent]

i cannot see a spino killing a deino

only if the deino is that bad of a player

[crimson dune]

it should, a 7 hour dino must be able to kill a 5 hours one

[wise sparrow]

I dont like the idea of "This animal takes 2 hours to grow so it MUST kill the one that takes 1 hour"

[azure crescent]

its apex vs apex, and deino should have a way higher biteforce than spino's

[wise sparrow]

But in all honesty our Godzilla lookin ass spino would be able to kill deino

[azure crescent]

same

[wise sparrow]

An actual even remotely accurate spino? Not so much

[azure crescent]

that's because it doesn't even remotely look like a spino

and barely is one

and even then i can only see a spino having a mid-tier biteforce

only if it gets a claw attack i can see it win a fight against a deino

and it doesn't look fast on water to catch up to a deino in the first place

[alpine plover]

TBf deino isn’t an apex, and it would have much lesser health than a spino

Plus deino should easily be able to avoid a spino unless it decides to go far enough on land for whatever reason

[spare badger]

Nesting

[alpine plover]

Spino would only use the water as an escape route from other apex’s

[spare badger]

Probably the only reason

[alpine plover]

I mean

Deino would probably nest not very far inland

Like on the banks of rivers or on swamp islands

Which it wouldn’t be that hard to spot a Spino

[barren oracle]

Its more of a mid tier decimator

[alpine plover]

So if your not paying attention and the Spino gets you. Your own fault. Otherwise you’ll almost always be able to just go to water safety

[barren oracle]

decimated by apexes

[alpine plover]

Deino is somewhere in the middle of psuedo apex’s

[barren oracle]

I mean even in psuedo apexs who is it actually beating

[alpine plover]

Sucho

[barren oracle]

Everything can walk away from it though

like at a snails pace

[alpine plover]

Walking away doesn’t mean beating

[barren oracle]

If it cannot drown it, it cannot fight it

[alpine plover]

In a straight fight the only psuedo apex that is a legit threat to Deino is Stego, Acro and maybe Theri (depending on the situation)

Para and sucho would probably die in a pure 1v1

Anky I have no idea since we don’t know exactly how big it’s gonna be

[crimson dune]

yeah, and spino should double dieino's health

[spare badger]

Spino has like 9100 health
Deino has 8000
Sucho had 4200

[azure crescent]

deino has 8000

at full grown

[spare badger]

Actually yea nevermind I'm dumb

[spare badger]

Nowhere close lol

[azure crescent]

only situations where the fight is in spino’s favour is if it’s on land or if it catches the deino REALLY off guard

[alpine plover]

I don't see stego as a pseudo apex, more apex status

[hollow canyon]

Spino is bigger and likely more powerful. If we're talking about irl animals - sure Deino would absolutely roll a Spino over with ease... but we're not talking about irl animals - The Isle's Spinosaurus is a kaijuu monster with such build and body proportions that it would likely just do to Deino what Planet Dinosaur Spinosaurus did to Sarcosuchus there.

in game Spino being 9.1t is honestly Nova just being conservative, it's impossible to outright say how heavy this animal would be based on the fact that nobody GDIed this fictional creature however just based on its proportions and size shown on Dondi's stream I reckon this thing is easily over 10t in weight.

We were literally told by the devs that upon encountering a Spinosaurus Deino's best bet will be to swim away and preferably do so fast.

[fresh laurel]

i like how this whole convo became deino vs spino

but I dont think the look of an animal should decide exactly its stats

I mean you would think sub adult stage for some dinos would be their fastest ingame

[crimson dune]

Spino is going to be better than deino you like it or not, mark my words

[hollow canyon]

If you mean that it's going to be winning a 1v1 against it then yea that's pretty much a given

although i'd dare to say that it will be a better playable all around since... Deino's just really garbage

I won't be surprised if it ends up being left in the dumpster as time goes on

[crimson dune]

What i mean is devs are surely going to make spino be better than deino

[fresh laurel]

i feel bad

and with perks spino could get a deino like perk...

[crimson dune]

Fish predator rank will be beipi<austro<bary<sucho<deino<spino

[fresh laurel]

i think deino would be a god at hunting fish

spino seems to use water to either go bear or ambush

[crimson dune]

I ranked them by strength

[fresh laurel]

oh

i hope deino becomes an actual fun playable

[crimson dune]

The day will come the same day devs fix fucking ai and makes it go to the water to drink

[fresh laurel]

or fix dino ai

ai carno...

[crimson dune]

No big dinos ai, that is giving players too much food for free

[fresh laurel]

i mean they would be aggro

[fresh laurel]

herbivores be like smh...

[ocean wagon]

I wish our spino looked more semi aquatic and not just a giga with a sail on its back

[ripe furnace]

It was and it was beautiful

[fresh laurel]

Ik but now....

[alpine plover]

Fr

[hot lintel]

Bruh of course the people who are known for having mostly bad takes are downvoting a good suggestion about how health shouldn't equal weight lol.

[spare badger]

Bad takes? Who are we referring to here?

Weight = Health is a good baseline but I think there should be more leeway

[hot lintel]

It's bad because it leads to baby apexes being a third of a Utah's health and taking 3 to 4 hits to kill which is kinda cringe

For example a baby Stego only needs to grow for a few minutes to no longer get one shot by a Carno that spent 2 hours growing at least

Alternatively you could keep the weight=health thing but nerf some dinos' weight values then, because 6k health Stego and 8k health Deino is overkill and makes the mf's damn near immortal

Just look at Deino, unless there's a Stego around it has no reason to fear going on land cause mid tiers can't do shit to it

[placid reef]

thats more to do with 2 apexes beeing thrown in a mostly low mid and bellow roster, thats smth that could be done for the time beeing but eh, not muhc interested in what could be done rn personally

[mental roost]

I'd blame the way growth works more so because of how damn linear and boring it is. I'd still like health and weight to not be the same but at least similar to one another. I'll always be an advocate for more interesting growth where some growth stages are longer than others and also allowing for smaller stegos and deinos than the current system allows.. but probably won't be changed anytime soon if ever.

[hollow canyon]

He's talking about me cause he wants his Pachy to not only be broken the way it is now but also wants it to be more tanky.

Also - funny how the whole explanation fo Stegos and Deinos being too strong against mid tiers is a reason to nerf them... yea what a surprise apexes are hard to kill for smaller mids - who would have ever imagined that?

Good thing they aren't going to get rid off the system and we're no longer going to be seeing little things like Pachy and Utah have twice as much HP as they should.

But I guess it's a hard concept to grasp for some people in this community because understanding why having small playables with bloated HP pools scuffs the balance actually requires you to do at least a little bit of thinking about how the game is supposed to function in future.