balance-feedback-discussion

[spare badger]

#GiveusSucho

[alpine plover]

Sucho won’t solve that

[spare badger]

Not the stegos
But everything else

[alpine plover]

We just need a good herd hunting creature like Allo or Alberto. Wouldn’t be balanced for the game but would fix herd issues

[spare badger]

Tenonto and Pachy will do jack shit to one
So what happens when that herd is thirsty and goes for a drink at shallows?

[alpine plover]

Sucho can’t chase down herds

[spare badger]

It won't need to

It's king of the shallows
The herds will come to it

[alpine plover]

No they won’t

That’s only if they go near water

[spare badger]

Either shallows with sucho or deep water with deino

[alpine plover]

Sucho can’t go on land and fight herds for food, Allo or Alberto can

[spare badger]

And what is gonna stop a sucho from going inland rn
We have no apexes and sucho is the largest carnivore that could feesibly survive in the current roster

[alpine plover]

It’s speed

[hollow canyon]

It's definitely Teno's high damage

[spare badger]

That is true

Although it'll at least drive off bodyguarders

[alpine plover]

It might be able to fight them, but it’s not able to go and hunt them down

[alpine plover]

So deino

[spare badger]

Deino can do nothing on land

[alpine plover]

It can fight, just not as well as a sucho. Can still chase off bodyguards

[fresh laurel]

#utahremodel

[spare badger]

It just gets kinda swarmed
Sucho is more suited for it at least

[fresh laurel]

replace deino with one of them land crocs

would be more fun and viable imo

[spare badger]

Nah they too small to be viable against even utah

[fresh laurel]

we can get bigger types

not things in kapro height lmao

[spare badger]

Also no land Croc is planned beside maybe Rai (which may not even be coming)

[fresh laurel]

rai is not confirmed anymore

so f in le chat

but imo we already have problems with dinos being worst versions of the other

ahem acro and giga...

[spare badger]

The size discrepancy is something at least

Why do they always come out it such low quality

Imo no need for Giga
At least spino is like, more than twice suchos size

And Alberto is even smaller compared to rex

But Acro and Giga are pretty close

[hollow canyon]

They aren't

they seem similar in size on the chart but that's because Nova doesn't exactly want to bloat up the sizes of the apexes by putting their real estimates there unless Rex gets a remodel

in reality Giga dwarfs Acro, it has some 3.5t on it

Giga's top estimate is somewhere in the vicinity of 9-9.2t while Acro is a 5.7t midget

If anything it's Acro that isn't really needed since it's basically a discount Giga that doesn't really offer anything superior to its more derived cousin

but then again their sizes have shifted with time so much that I think it's fine-ish now

[spare badger]

Ig so

[fresh laurel]

acro sems smaller sooo...

thing is

what can acro do that giga cant?

[spare badger]

Eat teno

Idk

[fresh laurel]

eat teno?

then acro is a giga for mid tiers

[spare badger]

Acro ate teno irl didn't it

[fresh laurel]

ik

just cant see what makes acro the better option that much

[spare badger]

Acro is the og

That's about it

[fresh laurel]

acro could use its thickness for bleed protection ig?

[spare badger]

Acro gets best heal in the game

[fresh laurel]

lmao

[spare badger]

Give it venom too
Make it a Giga killer

They could give Acro bleed resist and make it a bleeder hunter of sorts
It can hunt allos and stuff

[spring dagger]

Acro for nocturnal apex

Then acro can be viable

[spare badger]

That could work too

We need more nocturnal animals anyways

[fresh laurel]

at night you think you're safe from giga huh

then acro says nope

[spring dagger]

Like I always picture acro to be a nocturnal animal and idk why

[spare badger]

I mean
Irl animals that can't fight other animals in the ecosystem go nocturnal

So I can see Acro doing it

[spring dagger]

But then you risk like acro basically just being a nocturnal superior allo

Allo is just in a weak spot atm

[spare badger]

Really?

[fresh laurel]

allo could outstam and out agility what could catch it

plus them claws could bleed hard

[spring dagger]

Give me a break, I don't want old allo back

[spare badger]

Allo is the mediocre one
Mid damage, mid stam, mid speed, mid health

And it works

[fresh laurel]

old allo?

[spring dagger]

It's a jack of all trades that doesn't master none, it makes me think when other mid tiers arrive it'll just be stomped

Things like Alberto mainly

[alpine plover]

Give dryo 1 ton bite force

[spring dagger]

Type h dryo

[alpine plover]

Yes

[spare badger]

Alberto will be a fast burst damage dealer
Allo will def be able to outstam it

[hollow canyon]

Realistically? Nothing much, Acro is around the same speed as Giga if not slower than it while also being smaller and having lower biteforce.

[spring dagger]

Old allo could fucking snap turn 90 degrees and be uncatchable without alt turn

It basically made utah redundant

And honestly, if the combat is any indication, that's still going to be a thing that happens to both allo and utah in evrima

Until utah is changed anyway,

[spare badger]

I mean we have mostly small animals do they should turn quick
Stego for example turns like a bus

So imagine trike turning
Trike is Utah's favourite target since it can't protect its flanks

[spring dagger]

Allo should not be able to make 90 degree snap turns instantly and have the speed to perform literal loop de loops on itself in a second

[spring dagger]

GL finding a solo trike

[spare badger]

Lmao true

[spring dagger]

Even solo stegos are rare

[spare badger]

Point is not everything will turn on a dime

[spring dagger]

Utah just has nothing going for it and it'll forever be a redundant playable until the new one comes out

[spare badger]

And realistically Allo and Utah will always be in packs

[spring dagger]

Yeah

Allo will be a better utah, Alberto will be a better allo imo

[spare badger]

Which makes bleeding a target much easier

[spare badger]

Alberto will hunt completely differently

[spring dagger]

And not rely upon a mechanic that is easily circumvented, making it better overall

[spare badger]

Alberto is fast with a strong bite, although Allo being better Utah I can see

[spring dagger]

The crux of the problem I can see with allo and utah is bleeds overall effectiveness is so dependant on groups which it should be

It won't be as much of a problem for allo, but utah is getting the short end of the stick

Cause atleast allo has size and mass to back up its bleed damage

[spare badger]

True
Although I imagine Utah packs being much better at bleeding targets cause of pounce

[spring dagger]

Pounce in itself is a weak ability overall

It's so hit or miss

[spare badger]

Pounce will probably bleed more than Allo bite

[spring dagger]

Yeah, but with an allo you can afford to take a hit or two

Utah is just 1 fuck up or glitch, or desync and you fucking die

[fresh laurel]

who said allo should turn that good lol

[spring dagger]

Pounce is too punishing to use which is why most people don't bother unless they're pouncing someone that is afk or has absolutely no way of defending themselves

[spring dagger]

Nobody, I just don't want anyone getting any ideas about suggesting it

[fresh laurel]

just make allo turn better than carno but worst than utah ggez

[spare badger]

I see
Although because Utah turns around after a pounce it would get hit on the tail, therefore able to make 1 or 2 mistakes depending on what it's trying to kill

[spring dagger]

And if nocturnal acro is in the game then you have a charcodontosaurid that's just gonna blitz allo

Like it's no contest

[spare badger]

That's fair
But there would be some counterplay of some sort
And we don't really know the plans for new night vis

What I want for nigh vis is for things in the distance to get progressively more blurry and less colourful
So up close you can see colour kinda
But not far
So it's easier to ambush but not impossible to see coming

[spring dagger]

Honestly I think it'll just be the same that we had in legacy

[fresh laurel]

it wont pretty sure we had a new nv teaser

[spring dagger]

Teasers change man, the amount of times the game has flip flopped on shit is boggling

[spare badger]

They did say it would change a lot
I hope we don't get while circles again

[fresh laurel]

if we ever get normal sleeping it would be cool where your hunger and water doesnt go down

but you get up very slowly

like you cant see

[spring dagger]

I'd want sleeping to heal you super fast

[fresh laurel]

eh

that would be nice

but sleeping through night in a way would be cool

[spare badger]

If anything found you though you'd be done

Although that would be busted for burrowers

[spring dagger]

^

Though most things that burrow can't really fight anyway so

[fresh laurel]

dying when you are found is that imo but burrowers cant really fight back

plus if dryo is a night creatures than it will sleep for the day and deal with dilo, troodon and etc

sleeping is very helpful irl and seeing your dino go ingame days with no sleep is kinda funny

[spring dagger]

Bruh I really hope troodon isn't going to get troodoned on

Cause it just seems like a bootleg utah tbh

[fresh laurel]

troodoned on?

[spring dagger]

It was a pun

[fresh laurel]

troodon seems like velo but venom ngl

[spring dagger]

Trodden on

[fresh laurel]

ooooh

but really

troodon seems like velo but venom

[spare badger]

No point in velo really

[fresh laurel]

short glide hmmm

[spare badger]

No feathers on it lmaoo

[fresh laurel]

ingame model?

[spare badger]

Concept for Proto

That was velo
A very naked velo

[fresh laurel]

velo is troodon but no venom and more weight

ggez

and can climb cus yes

[spare badger]

Isn't trood bigger

Velo is smaller trood with no venom

[fresh laurel]

500kg utah

Where u at

[spare badger]

This was before the downsize

[runic tiger]

Stenonychosaurus i believe is a larger species of Troodon

[fresh laurel]

500kg utah still nice

[spare badger]

I thought it was the smaller one, what's the name of the other one?

[hollow canyon]

"Latenivenatrix" and yea "Stenonychosaurus" is the smaller one, Latenivenatrix is roughly the size of a male African lion or our Herrerasaurus.

[runic tiger]

Steno

Laten

both bigger then troodon itself

[fresh laurel]

i totally forgot this dino existed ngl

[half girder]

fax dude, like why am i getting punished for pouncing a stego?!

literally no way to counter it

[dusky surge]

i believe you can control the direction of the dismount, which has helped me several times

since the backswing and frontswing are slower, i aim usually those directions

[half girder]

idk, unless theres a utah literally feet away from a stego that baits the swing i dont do it anymore

but i do often find myself not jumping off in the direction i want

[barren oracle]

Naked hehehe

[spring dagger]

You can't control the dismount

[dusky surge]

I've done it so idk whats going on with you

[spring dagger]

Idk man, doesn't really matter where I aim I plop off whereever my utah feels like it

[hollow canyon]

@hollow prairie The devs are not going to be touching up the legacy to fix some balance issues, unfortunately, but even then:

There are dinosaurs and match ups in the legacy that need far more attention than Giga vs Spino. Like Suchomimus vs apexes(it gets rolled over and dies) or Cerato vs Allo(where Cerato gets outstammed and dies) or Cerato vs Carno(where Cerato gets rolled over and dies) or Cerato vs... you get the idea right? Pachy vs... most things really? Para being a hot garbage animal due to having virtually no bleed healing and no stamina regeneration, while also being slower than an Allo.

Furthermore all the aforementioned animals are legacy creatures, meanwhile Spino is a sandbox dinosaur so the chance that the devs would tinker with this match up specifically is just... next to non-existent?

Finally this match up is only unwinnable to Giga when Spino is really good, I've won against Spinos on multiple occasions, it's only those that have a very good grasp of this match up that are unbeatable to Giga.

[hollow prairie]

@hollow canyon Ah, thank you for sharing your thoughts! I know the devs wont work on Legacy further, thought I'd try anyway haha. Legacy is so special, I love it very much as do many others, guess how it is currently is what makes it so special too. : ) Maybe thinking of the 1v1 in a different manor could help, like using the cubes in DM or trees in survival.

[hollow canyon]

I mean don't get me wrong I do think legacy is awesome too, I have the vast majority of my hours on that branch still but

The last time they tried to tinker with it the branch has objectively gotten worse

because the current programmers just aren't familiar with its code which has been made by a completely different person.

So trying to touch it might create... unexpected consequences

[hollow prairie]

Ah true.. Hmmmm, I love Legacy a lot as it is and wouldn't want them to ruin the branch. I am just grateful I am still able to play it, as many others are as well. I will take down my request and think of a new way to win the matchup in higher tiers. Thank you for talking to me about this!

[hollow canyon]

Oh, you can keep it up there, I'm just giving you the reasons why realistically it's not going to happen, which is rather unfortunate but it is what it is

[hollow prairie]

Eh I'd rather not risk them changing anything and messing with the balance actually, now that I think about it. Legacy is messy, but that is what makes it what it is. Don't want them to mess with much in that branch anymore. So, I'll leave it as it is and rethink my strategy. You are right though, dont know if they'd even see my request let alone work on it hahaha.

[fresh laurel]

@rapid monolith I personally think your suggestion is pretty flawed in trying to make diets even harder for carnivores

you gotta remember carnivores when past 50% cant really get all 3 nutrients since they would have to eat 3 different things at the same time and well that means lots of hunts where death can happen

plus ai are pretty rare rn

and herbivores diets were suppose to make carnivores follow the herbivores for that nutrient

but oasis came and changed the plan hard

[rapid monolith]

I think you did not understand what I said in my message, even thought carnis cant get all 3 or is very dificult to get all 3 nutrients they dont realy need it singe a utha can get full grown with one ai since once you reach 50% you can have more then 100% in each diet witch by the time they empty you are full grown same with carno and dino howerver you dont get max, like I said in my message almost adult with carno and 75% with dino, thats insane you know how hard is to get a stego to 100% its 6h with perfect diet if you can find 3 with is hard, most of the time you will find 2, you know the growth time for stego with 2 diets is 9h and then you have dino its carnivore counterpoart that can get to 75% from just fish AI @fresh laurel

[fresh laurel]

stego at the same time is a god rn but besides that utah cant go one meal as juvie and not eat until full grown

[hollow canyon]

Stego's not 6h with perfect diet

Idk about Stego vs Deino comparison but I do know that Tenonto is easier to grow than Carno... by a lot too.

[fresh laurel]

herbivores in my expirence in update 4 are less of a pain to grow

legit can graze when no nutrients

[hollow canyon]

They were much easier to grow for me all around

I don't know about Stego cause... I'm not playing that garbage, I've grown it once in update 2 when it just came out and I said "never again"

[fresh laurel]

stego is god now thanks to weight = hp update sooo...

[hollow canyon]

both its gameplay and its growth were the most inane and boring experiences I've had in the history of this game

[hollow canyon]

It could have a godmode for all I care and I still wouldn't touch it

[fresh laurel]

im not playing anything for 5 hours now sooo...

[hollow canyon]

I would play things with those growth times but not Stego

I've grown Deinos like a factory during last summer

Idk if I would care to grow one now though, so I don't want to speak about the largest animals

[fresh laurel]

i did that for gigas back when i was in summer but in school time i only go utah or carno at best

[hollow canyon]

Legacy was a different story, I've grown a lot of apexes there but they were actually fun to play unlike Deino and Stego in Evrima

Well... Giga really, I've never played Rex much

[fresh laurel]

me when legacy juvie giga was stronger than rex juvies

good thing giga wont be slower than rex now in evrima

[hollow canyon]

it was stronger in terms of fighting prowess but it was much worse in terms of survivability

I much preferred playing juvie Rex over juvie Giga

adult Giga was much more fun than adult Rex though

[fresh laurel]

juvie giga had good stam ig but slow as hell

[hollow canyon]

sub? Rex>>Giga

Although that's because Giga was bugged

still is

[fresh laurel]

adult giga was decent speed for its size but rex came in and ruined the giga fun :<

[rapid monolith]

I literally played utha today and got to 100% with just one boar and I am not just becasue its really ahrd to kill a stego does not mean there counterpart should get an easier time I am prety sure a dino can grab and basically garanti kill a 80% and 100% which is OP in its own way does not mean it should get a easier time growing with perfect diet

100% carno*

[hollow canyon]

Idk about Deino, Utah can be pulled off to 100% with one boar but one Carno cannot

[fresh laurel]

well even then thats just utah not the whole carnivore faction

[hollow canyon]

oh no, you're not getting Carno to 100% on one boar

[fresh laurel]

carno needs to go hypo mode

[hollow canyon]

I don't think that's possible even if you get it exactly at 49%

and even then it requires you to luck out and find a boar at the right time before the 50% mark

meanwhile Tenonto - literally sitting 2 hours in a bush

without a care in the world

At least the carnivores require you to move around

playing herbivores if you're smart about it is just a complete bush-simulator

[fresh laurel]

im just saying herbivores are waaay less punished with diet system

[rapid monolith]

I was not talking about carno carno if you are at 0% hunger and close to 50% in growth, then eat and fill your dets with an AI can ALMOST get you to full adult

[fresh laurel]

ai are rare so no

[hollow canyon]

Well as I said - that requires you to find the right Ai at the right time

meanwhile herbivores have no such issues

[fresh laurel]

you dont really find ai on populuated servers

[hollow canyon]

you literally just overload one nutrient, eat up another and sit next to the third one chilling in a bush

[calm ibex]

there are ways to afk grow even carno in current build without having to move more than for short drink

[hollow canyon]

My suggestion for Tenonto is to always overload on raddish and keep close to potatoes

Where do you have such a reliable AI spawn point?@calm ibex

[rapid monolith]

Next time you play go to a beach you will see at least a carno running around hunting for Crabs and turtle On beach they spawn constantly on the beach

[calm ibex]

west beach has a ton of turtles, but several people have figure it out now, so the competition is raising day by day

particularly the short beach part between caves and docks has few reliable turtle spawns

[hollow canyon]

I will check it out

although idk how much turtles give and it seems to me that you'd need to eat a tonne of them to fill up on nutrients enough to make it to adult

[calm ibex]

i have so far 100% success rate after growing 5 carnis there, but like always, spawns may be scuffed if server has been up for a while

[hollow canyon]

I know that one boar doesn't even get you to full adult

Which spawn point do you use to get there fastest?

[rapid monolith]

I was useing the one boar for utah not carno, ik you cant with carno

[hollow canyon]

Yea I know you can do that with Utah, Utah is relatively easy to grow

Carno seemed much harder to me based on the experience so far

I haven't gone to the beach though

[calm ibex]

boars are fairly common in general from my experience, the issue is that you cant really kill em easily without growing fair bit first

[hollow canyon]

hmmm... you can easily kill them at 40% which is when you really need it anyways

Idk about them being that common though, they are a really on and off thing in my experience

Sometimes I see 4 of them in one place another I don't see one on the whole of the southern plains and the surrounding areas

[rapid monolith]

Well I found a dead one 2 min after spawn and I sat by it until I got to 50% all nutrients then I had full perfect diet so BAM full easy grow

[dusky surge]

boars are the most consistent animal there is. They have HUGE weight and frequency, the fact they're on a utah's diet is very good for the utah

[calm ibex]

i just go over areas like the western fields between south spawn and west beach, good vision equals to better chance of detecting AI, however its boring af

[hollow canyon]

Yea Utah isn't hard to grow at all, I just logged onto a random server and realised I have a ~40% grown Utah overloaded with nutrients and ready to be afk grown.

...which is really annoying because I'm hearing some small Carnos that I'd want to try fighting but why risk it?

[ripe furnace]

Where do you spawn to get there

[calm ibex]

i take south spawn but center spawn works just as fine, its a long way though
in general i would not recommend to go in blind, instead have decent map knowledge before hand

i havent actually checked north east beach spawns ever, should take a look at those at some point

[barren oracle]

I can’t wait for balance to eventually fall into; yeah If this sees you your dead

Tbh mainly applies to allo being added

[fresh laurel]

Teno suggestion is le posted

[wise sparrow]

imo I really dont like the idea of teno only sending carno running. What's stopping it from coming back fully healed? Teno should be going for the kill. Although the tail nerf and kick buff is needed. I just think teno should lean more towards lethal force.

[fresh laurel]

Carno would take to long to heal and get stam while teno can find its herd in that time

So eh

[wise sparrow]

And if you dont have a herd? The carno can keep coming back over and over

[spare badger]

I disagree for teno always going for the kill
The point of a brawler is dangerous to engage, not deadly every time. Of course teno can still kill carno, but the carno is far more likely to run from it first

[wise sparrow]

Even worse, it can regroup with other carnos

[fresh laurel]

Again... carno would take too long to heal and find you

[sinful cove]

the way this is phrased makes it look like tenontos cant already do this and want to just give carnos a booboo instead of killing them

tenonto is a brawler, brawlers finish the job

[spare badger]

I mean if you get a slam and then a kick for a fracture and another slam carno is pretty hurt

[fresh laurel]

I just think tenos do it too easily rn sooo...

[sinful cove]

so you instead want them to just scrape a carno up a bit so it can run away and attack again later? thats even worse

[fresh laurel]

Im didnt say carno wouldnt be heavily hurt

[wise sparrow]

I'm all for tail slam being nerfed while kick gets more utility. But making it so carno is able to get away most of the time is gonna cause problems

[fresh laurel]

I was trying to say it would be harder out right kill them

[fresh laurel]

I only said 290n on tail slam dps....

[sinful cove]

heavily hurt barely means anything especially when you control the engagement

[wise sparrow]

It's fine if it's harder to kill. But the way you said it sounded like you wanted teno to solely make the predator run

[fresh laurel]

Nothing is stopping your teno from going ham on carno if it really wants

[spare badger]

I guess so
Although the carno's gonna be (ideally) very low health

[fresh laurel]

But it wint be as easy

[sinful cove]

sick of the notion that fighter herbis are supposed to just bop their attackers on the head and give them a second chance

[fresh laurel]

I was trying to mean it would be harder to kill carno

[sinful cove]

you didnt phrase it that way at all

[fresh laurel]

Ill retype that part

[spare badger]

That's fair

[fresh laurel]

There

I think thats better?

[spare badger]

Make it so that a smart carno can still run
But 1 stun won't outright kill the carno

Even as a teno main that feels unfair

[sinful cove]

if a predator who controls the engagement knows they can just fuck off whenever they please when they make a mistake then theres nothing deterring them from attacking the slower animals

if the carno is an idiot he deserves to die

[fresh laurel]

You forget carno gotta eat like a hypo now so no choice

Its kinda forced to fight anything it sees

[sinful cove]

thats a food problem not a tenonto problem

food values are garbage

[fresh laurel]

True

[spare badger]

I just want kick to be useful and slam to not be broken

[wise sparrow]

Teno body casually only filling like 60% for carno

[spare badger]

Tenonto is a 1 trick pony cause slam is just too good

[fresh laurel]

Ok i know i said my suggestion weird but 290n slam and kick doing fracture? Isnt that good?!

[sinful cove]

carnis should fill at 20% of their body weight in food with slight variations between some

[fresh laurel]

I wanna know what yall think of the suggestion for the values

Not some example i said

[fresh laurel]

A fg utah should really fill a carno

[spare badger]

I would remove the example altogether

[sinful cove]

it should, carno shouldnt be running around brawling tenontos, that should be for groups and carnos who actually have brains which is maybe 15% of their base right now

[fresh laurel]

Alr

[sinful cove]

utah and galli and other animals in that tier should be the normal game for carno

[fresh laurel]

Yea

But not enough smalls rn

[spare badger]

I agree
And so does the concept art

Carnos should only engage Tenonto's in pairs or if the carno is really good otherwise they will likely lose

[fresh laurel]

Good carno?

[spare badger]

I want kick to be useful on Tenonto too

[fresh laurel]

Didnt see those in months

[sinful cove]

if some sped carno runs in and tries to brawl a tenonto instead of playing right he should just get sent back to the selection screen

[fresh laurel]

Most carno ram from 20 miles away

[spare badger]

It's kinda funny

[fresh laurel]

Carnos suffer from skill issue

[sinful cove]

carnos spam broadcast, prematurely charge and then scream and cry about how hungry they are

[spare badger]

I press S once and they go careening into my tail slams

[fresh laurel]

But teno rn is too forgiving to play rn

[sinful cove]

carnos would be a lot less hungry if theyd just stfu

[spare badger]

Teno doesn't need a nerf per se
It needs a shift of power in its moves

[sinful cove]

so many times i just avoid a carno pack because idiots in their group broadcast for no reason at all

[fresh laurel]

Carno are so bad that when i go to utah rock they are so hell bent on reaching me that they die from trying to go back down smh

[wise sparrow]

But all the big carnivores in jurassic world roar all the time!!!!!!🤬 🤬 😱 🤬 Its what in supposed to do. I'm the apex carnivore 🤬 🤬 ❌ 🤬 🤬

[fresh laurel]

Juvie carnos when they see one big dinosaur

[fresh laurel]

BUT REXY GO RAWR ALL TIME BEFORE SO I GONRAWR DHDHSNSKDODJDX

And boom i just avoid a dumb carno

Even utahs know better than to spam call smh

[sinful cove]

i swear carnos are being played by the same buffoons who grew a giga in the corner of the map in legacy and then went to beach to kos juvies and broadcast like they accomplished something for once in their life

[wise sparrow]

*Some Utahs

[sinful cove]

utahs spam call but their call is so short its just a minor annoyance, i barely hear it nowadays too

[fresh laurel]

Because we getting smorter

[spare badger]

I only hear utahs spam call to call their pack over cause my Tenonto is harrassing them

[sinful cove]

pteras and carnos, followed by stegos and deinos are the worst offenders

[fresh laurel]

Im telling you most utahs i see now actually know how to approch

[wise sparrow]

I've played juvi pachy and I juked out a pack of 6 carnos for like 5 mins all the while they are 3 calling and broadcasting after they kill a boar

[fresh laurel]

Ptera spam callers need death

[spare badger]

Woooo I killed AI I am so good at this video game

[sinful cove]

ive been playing utah a lot lately, i just stfu too but thats just how i do every playable

[fresh laurel]

Utah is fun imo

I managed to kill a sub deino with my pack :>

[sinful cove]

ive air knocked a few pt spam callers when i play pt i hate them so much they fly up to you and try to group up and just fly next to you spam screeching

[wise sparrow]

Utah has come a long way from "sit behind prey and win"

[fresh laurel]

But for real carnos brain cell count surprises me

[sinful cove]

i knocked some in to the river to deinos a couple times it feels good

[fresh laurel]

I loved those times and hated them

[sinful cove]

a lot of them are idiots who cant manage their stam too so they just fall right in, crazy how so many people still waste all their stam on initial takeoff

[fresh laurel]

3 utahs got my giga to 3rd screen by ass riding until i found a ocean

I killed all of them

[fresh laurel]

Pteras that try fighting me always hit a wall and fall lmao

Then i munch em or they die to fall

[wise sparrow]

I've been yelled at by utahs for "hacking" because I was playing dibble and they couldn't tail ride me. They told me to let them behind them to "make it fair"

[sinful cove]

lmao a pt tried to kill my hypsi a bit back and i ran in to the woods and just hear him smack a tree behind me

[fresh laurel]

LMAO

[sinful cove]

remember that guy in feedback who said he and his clan trained a year to ride rexes or some shit

[fresh laurel]

Im like how ptera so weak that a fresh spawn utah can bleed it out to death with pounce

[wise sparrow]

I let them behind me cause I was bored... and still won cause they kept one calling after every hit they got off -_-

[fresh laurel]

BUT IN JP 1 2 3 JWE VELOCIRAPTOR CALL FOR HALP OR KILL XOXOXOX ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌

I remember killing 12 diablos as one giga

They all hoarded me but didnt know my ambush was faster smh

[wise sparrow]

Ambush speed was just another thing the devs added to fuffil thir carnivore wet dreams in legacy

[fresh laurel]

Now herbivore mains get their turn in evrima

Im pissed that all herbivores cant starve to death due to grazing tbh

[wise sparrow]

Grazing needs to deplete an area of grass

[fresh laurel]

Yes!

Dunno how grazing even fills dryo hunger bar tbh

Dryo needs more filling foods since fast

Stego makes sense

[frail flicker]

if only they trained that hard to get a girlfriend they might not be so depressed to find out tail riding is useless in what The Isle is soon to become...

[fresh laurel]

Roasted but really even on stream a dev was laughing at how utahs werent gonna be tail riding gods

[frail flicker]

im happy utahs can get countered by a good player because tail riding was sooooo insufferable lol

[fresh laurel]

Bruh legit 3 utahs got my giga to 3rd screen and i only won thanks to water

I couldnt fight back for most of the fight....

But now i can time my turn in evrima

[frail flicker]

fr, i remember only playing carno in legacy because you could atleast out run utahs from what i remember, in all honesty, i cant wait to go on a utah murderspree when legacy utah mains come into evrima when legacy servers get shut down

[fresh laurel]

Lmao

Better be careful of sticky utah

He learns quick

[frail flicker]

True, Sticky would wipe the floor with anyone given he had a day to learn lol

[fresh laurel]

Legit watch him go on a murder spree with utah killing carno solo

With sticky making utah evrima tips

Most utahs will get gud

[wise sparrow]

Isn't he gonna have to rename himself to something like "Sticky apollo" or "sticky nova"?

[fresh laurel]

Nah

He will main irl utah

Lmao

[fresh laurel]

With devs update time frame he will worry about that in 3 years ig

[spare badger]

Irl utah is gonna be hard to balance cause it's slow
They could make it a climber but idk if irl utah can climb

[wise sparrow]

Irl utah could be a jungle dwelling small game hunter that lives in pairs. It could use its foot talons to pin down other animals and rip into them with its mouth. I thought itd be neat for its vocals to sound like birds chirping to blend in with jungle ambience.

Khaens came up with the jungle dweller idea iirc

[fresh laurel]

Same way they did pachy ig just minus bone dmg

Like irl utah could be a bralwer of its size?

Wonder whats wrong with teno suggestion

[spare badger]

What happens when it runs into cerato, Allo or carno? Irl utah is slower than all 3

[alpine plover]

i mean it could simply avoid allo and carno, cera is a tricky one though yeah

[spare badger]

How fast will they make it is the question
Irl utah being a climber like Dakotaraptor in Saurian would be neat

[wise sparrow]

I mean what's the difference on speed between the two?

[fresh laurel]

Irl utah could use its ahility as an advantage

I mean if they went 100% realism on it then it wouldnt be a playable worth playing

[hollow canyon]

between irl Cerato and irl Utah? I've heard different estimates for Cerato - either putting it at 27km/h or 33km/h, meanwhile irl Utah is around... 30km/h

so depending on how which estimate you use Ceratosaurus is either 3km/h faster or 3km/h slower than the Utahraptor

[wise sparrow]

I mean you can up utahs speed slightly so it can avoid cera while not being faster than pachy

[fresh laurel]

Whats wrong with being faster than pachy

Both would be like 500kg right?

[wise sparrow]

Eh I just think it could cause issues. No harm in it being as fast. But I'd rather not take the risk

[fresh laurel]

Pachy could still break utah leg and run

Irl utah might be 50 50 with pachy

[wise sparrow]

Nah. Irl utah would probably stand less of a chance due to being a bigger target and less speedy that nova/apollo

[fresh laurel]

Gotta remember its speed has to stay somewhat viable with the roster

Im pretty it will be faster than teno but slower than apollo

Which leads to pachy speed

[fresh laurel]

@grim pulsar you do utah is slower than carno right?

Plus utah is kinda meant to adapt to most areas of the map

Also the last time carno was how you were describing it

It broke the games balance

Also bucking might glitch sometimes

And i think utah not sliding off trees was to help it hunt in forests

Also if utah did not have good stamina it wouldnt even be able to do enough dmg or bleed with pounce

Also i hope you know bleeders normally need stamina to keep track of prey while making the fight last long as possible

Also pretty sure you have to hold e by default to buck

Plus you gotta remember how would this affect the other dinos like teno and pachy or dryo

Cant make carno tok easy but i agree carno kinda fails at ambushing

[grim pulsar]

I do know that, but it should be more accurate to what it is. And it's not. Utahs seem to have more stam than carno, which is wrong. Also utah much smaller, should be pack hunter. Anyway, I won't be playing carno cuz it's totally off right now. Utah is also a bit off.

[fresh laurel]

More accurate?

[grim pulsar]

not going to argue with you so convo over.

[fresh laurel]

Alr...

Im just saying carno stats are fine rn but ram could be remade

[fresh laurel]

Utah is a glass canon rn

You dont really see them tank carno

[grim pulsar]

i don't mean to be rude i just don't feel good, so it's all good if you don't agree. I understand the game in a whole needs to have balance, but honestly I feel the animals should be based from what we know of them from real research and what makes the most logical sense based on what type of predator they are. like I just ran from the beach/base thing to the south river with utah barely used stam and it recovers fast standing here as Utah. While Utah is fun rn, cuz it's a bit op, it's fun for me, but I'm not even worried about a carno when I should be afraid of them. I'm solo, not a pack. blah blah blah. right. so it's all good. Carno imho should be a utah killer, doesn't seem that it really is and it should be able to catch up them a bit more. Yes you're right, they are both similar full speeds, but carno should have more stam to compensate for that as utah is ambush predator. Anyway, gonna go play utah for a bit, then dunno.

like the utah feels pretty good on stam, so just make the carno have more or so it lasts longer or uses less, something.

carno doesn't feel like it has much of an edge on utah atm

[eternal musk]

I agree. The Dino’s should be based on what we know in person.

[fresh laurel]

Then gl

Lots of dinos will lose viablity

Ahem spino

Troodon will commit gone

But ill read on

[grim pulsar]

well you can have realistic stats to a degree, and have beefed up stats and made up stuff for things like elders or lab grown animals or whatever else is planned outside the data we know about, ya know.

carp i ran the wrong way..

[fresh laurel]

Thing is

If we get too realistic in stats

Rex will replace most mid tiers lol

[eternal musk]

Lol! That’s true the Rex was apex predator 😂

[fresh laurel]

And utah irl is beyond slow

But i recommend to play utahs pov rn

[grim pulsar]

actually utah wasn't slow, it was nearly as fast as carno irl

[fresh laurel]

They are 2 to 3 hits to head with carbo

[fresh laurel]

It wasnt

Maybe source?

[grim pulsar]

I created a stats sheet so I've already looked it all up

and they were very close to the same speed

[fresh laurel]

I mean how slow do you want utah

Im mostly disagreeing about making utah not have as much stam as it does now since its whole gameplay is using your higher stam as an advantage

[grim pulsar]

utahs they think could hit 49km and carno was 56km

[fresh laurel]

Source

[grim pulsar]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XbCe0iliPtXL3E9StxE-6mPC-Dsd78if_nSBenB0YI0/edit#gid=0 here's my research on realistic stats

some stuff is unknown so you need to compensate for things, but the speed is data you can find from legit sources.

[fresh laurel]

Need access

[grim pulsar]

crap really

[hollow canyon]

Carno's kind of just bad on the current patch, I wouldn't bother with it for the time being

[sour halo]

yeah

[grim pulsar]

k i need water and I'll need to fix that i guess

[hollow canyon]

Utah's better

[fresh laurel]

True

[hollow canyon]

Neither is particularly good though

[fresh laurel]

Utah pack you mean

[hollow canyon]

Well, even solo it's not too awful, you can take a Pachy on assuming it's not particularly bright

[fresh laurel]

I dont think utah can solo carno easily rn unless that good

[hollow canyon]

I mean... if Utah was soloing Carnos then that would mean the balance is really, really scuffed

[fresh laurel]

A good pachy vs a good utah

[hollow canyon]

I don't think it's quite that bad

[fresh laurel]

Idk man...

[hollow canyon]

I'd rather play Utah on the current patch, worst case scenario even if you lose it its growth is much easier compared to Carno

[fresh laurel]

I never seen a u4 utah solo a carno yet but that might be because of lag and desync

[hollow canyon]

If you see one that means that the devs really messed up the balance

[fresh laurel]

Yup

[hollow canyon]

Utah shouldn't even be thinking about soloing a Carno

[fresh laurel]

But i dont so, so far so good ig

Well then we got stego and teno and pachy

[hollow canyon]

in general - atm Tenonto and Stego are probably the best picks, Pachy is good too but it works weird

[fresh laurel]

The overtuned ones

[fresh laurel]

They dont trust me but 2 will try

[grim pulsar]

try this link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XbCe0iliPtXL3E9StxE-6mPC-Dsd78if_nSBenB0YI0/edit?usp=sharing

[hollow canyon]

like - its juvie is awful and it being unable to get coconuts on its own prior to being 50% is just... kind of bad

Don't get me wrong - adult Pachy is a really good playable

but it has some downsides during its growth, meanwhile Tenonto is good from the get go while Stego is literally untouchable upon reaching adult-stage

[fresh laurel]

Ptera hiting harder than utah?

Hol up...

[hollow canyon]

Idk where you're getting this information from

but that's... really, really wrong

[fresh laurel]

Imo pachy and teno are very overtuned

[sour halo]

I've seen a utah try to 1v2 adult carnos

[fresh laurel]

Thats what i thought too

[fresh laurel]

Then they are dumb

[sour halo]

yeah it was funny

[fresh laurel]

Like

Really dumb

As a utah i can avoid 3 carnos easily thanks to their bad turn for enough time until i find a rock

But i think utah is fine where it is rn

Has the stamina to keep fights long for bleed to really show

[grim pulsar]

Prob like 20% of the data was from sources that provided the data, the rest I had to compensate for basing it off current animals so it's anyones guess, but you can find out the speed for utah and carno by doing a google and picking a reputable source.

[fresh laurel]

I dont think ptera of all things hits harder than utah though lmao

[hollow canyon]

If this data is supposed to be based off what these animals were like irl then it's wrong

[grim pulsar]

it's bite force, in game it's damage done.

[hollow canyon]

for starters - Utahraptor was a completely different animal than what we have in the game

It was a very bulky ground-hawk with a giant head

[fresh laurel]

Irl utah is confirmed for the isle

[grim pulsar]

a small bird can have a high bite force, but small bird, small mouth, likely won't do the same damage as a larger animal with a larger mouth.

[hollow canyon]

stocky build, short limbs

[fresh laurel]

So what you are saying for this utah isnt even a utah lol

Its like novaraptor ig

[grim pulsar]

omg, go do some research bud, then come back and prove me wrong, i'm out. sides this convo should be in a different channel btw.

[hollow canyon]

I'm saying that this Utah is not a good point of reference for irl Utah and irl Utah is not a good point of reference for this animal

[fresh laurel]

Ptera biting harder than utah?
Really?

[fresh laurel]

Balance feedback

Is this not balance we are talking about

You want carno buffs with utah nerfs

[grim pulsar]

If you can find more accurate data let me know you can edit the chart with it.

[fresh laurel]

Im saying why utah is fine

[grim pulsar]

my goal was to find out the actual data, irl data, so go see what you can find.

not saying they should apply it, but as reference or whatever.

gonna play now.

[fresh laurel]

Alr...

Utah stamina nerf on a dino that uses stamina like its life depends on it...

I just what

[hollow canyon]

@grim pulsarI generally don't do imperial when it comes to scientific data because in science we use metric but:

Carno is a bit too long - it's stated as 29.5feet long there which translates to ~9m. Carnotaurus was around 8m long(~26feet), its biteforce on the other hand is slightly lower than the most up to date estimate.

[fresh laurel]

Welp i feel like my reasons were told

[hollow canyon]

I could look up the data for you but translating all the values to imperial from metric is just annoying

[sour halo]

honestly balance wise I think utah is in an alrighty position

not the best, could use improvement, but its playable

[hollow canyon]

I also don't think that there's any scientific basis for making an estimate for the biteforce of a Utahraptor. If you find any data on the internet about it it likely means that someone just guessed it

[fresh laurel]

What improvements do you have in mind for the big compy

[sour halo]

pachy needs fixed

[fresh laurel]

Best to wait for offical paleos to find out ig

[sour halo]

i am of the opinion that utah should not be thrown to the floor for 5 seconds after one pachy alt attack

[fresh laurel]

More endlag and slight turn nerfs and im happy

Nothing harsh

[hollow canyon]

Yea, I don't want to make guesses, I personally wouldn't be surprised if Utahraptor turned out to have a pretty powerful bite but that's just me guessing it blindly

[fresh laurel]

Heh... powerful bite utah

Come on paleos i wanna see how hard mah man utah can chomp

[hollow canyon]

Most dromaeousaurs actually utilised their bites as a killing method more so than their claws

[fresh laurel]

And utah was the biggest...

[hollow canyon]

the claws were mainly used as means of sticking to their prey via RPR

Utahraptor also has a really, really large head

to the point that the animal looks kind of comical

[fresh laurel]

So irl if it was ingame would latch on instead and just bite?

Like using latch to just spam bite

[hollow canyon]

It would kind of do what it does in the game tbh

it's just that the majority of the damage would be done via bites

[fresh laurel]

Like pounce but less bleed but more dmg

[hollow canyon]

not so much by clawing the animal(although not necessarily)

[fresh laurel]

I can see that

[hollow canyon]

Utahraptor(IIRC and I might be wrong here) is the one dromaeosaur that may have actually utilised its claws for killing more than its relatives

[fresh laurel]

Irl utah bite ingame would be what if you had to guess?

[hollow canyon]

I have no idea what the biteforce of most other animals are going to be

[fresh laurel]

So it would do more hit and runs until something bled out?

[hollow canyon]

No, I'm pretty sure irl Utahraptor wouldn't be doing any hit and runs, it was a polar-bear sized behemoth that would likely just jump its prey item and tear it into shreds

[fresh laurel]

I see irl utah ingame being a brawler for its size

[hollow canyon]

it wouldn't be anywhere near as graceful as the one we have in the game

[fresh laurel]

So pachy but carnivore

[hollow canyon]

just pure brute strength

[fresh laurel]

You would expect its claws to some good bleed though

So its going brawler route?

[hollow canyon]

I don't think it would be hunting big game tbh, not in the game

I think it would just bully most of the smaller roster, the moment it jumps something - that thing just dies

It would fare very poorly against things like Allosaurus, Carnotaurus or potentially even Ceratosaurus, they are just too big for it

[fresh laurel]

So what if it finds pachy?

[hollow canyon]

and too fast at the same time

[hollow canyon]

I don't want to speculate in the game but irl Utah would turn irl Pachy into food very quickly

[fresh laurel]

Dilo?

Always wanted to know who would win irl utah vs dilo

[hollow canyon]

Dilophosaurus is a bit bigger, I genuinely have no idea how an encounter between these two would go, it depends on quite a couple of things

[fresh laurel]

Ok how about both are in plains and are face to face

[spare badger]

Which is heavier?

[hollow canyon]

No, what I'm saying is that I don't know enough about the two to make any kind of speculationg here - both animals are not studied that much in depth

Dilo is heavier out of the two

by some ~200kg at that

[fresh laurel]

Then dilo might win

Or unless utah can inflict the first few hits with its claws

Anyways if irl utah came i wonder if it would go 50 50 with dilo or something

[subtle summit]

I think pounce gives the Utah the edge

I meant

[frail flicker]

Just so you know Sonic, I did manage to pull off a 1v1 with my Utah vs Carno, I got one pretty good pounce on him and he didn't nessicarily try to fight back too much, just kept waking toward Oasis stopping to bite and try to scare me off but I was persistent and killed it

In all honesty, I think the Carno might've just been bad at the game but it did happen

[fresh laurel]

Well ofc that would happen

But a carno actually using their size and etc would win 1v1

[frail flicker]

Yeah I don't think a good carno player is dying to a solo Utah, unless the Utah is absolutely cracked out of their mind

[grim pulsar]

be tight if utah could head pounce on things similar to a bit larger size, a utah attached to your head, would bring you down for a moment.

I think Utah is in a nice sweet spot, so with carno, just make it about 10kmph faster than utah, give it a little bit more acceleration than it currently has and give carno stamina that lasts a bit longer and or recovers a bit faster while standing / walking.

Deino, let them eat under water.

[ripe furnace]

Crocodiles can’t do that

Well If it’s small enough

[grim pulsar]

you right

for some reason i thought they could and excrete the water while eating.

reading they eat little rocks to help digest stuff. hmmm.

[fresh laurel]

If we did that then deino really has no reason to come up on land besides air

[wise sparrow]

@grim pulsar carno is supposed to be a short distance ambush hunter while utah is am endurance predator. Not the other way around. Also are you really complaining that utah is more agile than carno? Carno is stronger, faster, has more health, hits harder, has good bleed tolerance, and you want carno to match it in agility? Also buck does work (most of the time >_>). If you could buck utahs of effortlessly by spamming E utah would be fodder against carno.

[barren oracle]

The carnivore roster is boring rn

[spare badger]

These are the animals currently slated for Evrima
Carno is supposed to chase smaller animals (Galli and dryo) in short ambushes and take on mid tiers like tenonto in pairs

[barren oracle]

I feel carno could take magy

if there was 2

[spare badger]

Maybe
Magy would win 1v1

Carno shouldn't be taking on similar sized animals on its own unless it's got an ambush

Our roster lineup is completely missing a good apex since rex is gonna be AI

Allo or sucho or something is needed

Allo would probably be able to take stego in packs but still is Deino food

So it wouldn't take over the server

Imo sucho and Allo would be good to have but idk

[barren oracle]

sucho is better than allo in my opinion

thats a lie

allo is better for game

[spare badger]

With Allo we have an apex land predator, stegos are no longer immortal
With sucho we can cull Sub deino populations, make shallows unsafe and have another solution to Allo overpopulation

And sucho is cool

[wise sparrow]

Sucho and allo should be released together imo. At least if they came in at this point in the ecosystem. I am worried that people would just straight up stop playing any other animal and just gravitate to "hee hoo big carnivore!!!"

[spare badger]

I agree

But the 'hehee big carnivore' is solved in a few ways

With Allo it still gets yoinked by deino, slapped by sucho and stabbed by stego if it's on its own, also Utah

Sucho is mauled by adult deinos and stegos as well as large packs of allos or Utah's if it's caught in the open

So neither will be oppressive in the ecosystem

But Allo isn't coming for a long time and suchomimus has been removed from the evrima roster...

[placid reef]

sucho hasnt been removed... its just not on the roadmap

[spare badger]

It's been removed from the inhabitants list

Therefore it isn't coming to Evrima

It'll come after humans are done ig

Or whenever the beta is completed

[placid reef]

umm, we have almost 60 playables confirmed without strains, and 80% of them arent on trello, its still coming to evrima

[spare badger]

When I say Evrima I mean the beta

The devs' definition of Evrima

They are all still coming to the recode

[placid reef]

it will prob stay early access for a very long time, also i think Evrima is just how it will be named, not just the beta name

[spare badger]

From what I gathered from the Kissen fiasco she referred to Evrima as the beta, not the recode itself, although I could be wrong

[placid reef]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[spare badger]

Either way they aren't coming to the stuff that's being worked on rn
So after the human mechanics I'm assuming is when the rest of the 56 playables are coming

[slim dragon]

Jumps out of nowhere
Evrima is a gamemode, just like Survival, Progression or Sandbox.

[placid reef]

well that was the idea ever since the roadmap change, more mechanics now and then the playables as it will be easier to implement them when the game actually has all the mechanics needed

[spare badger]

Yea so they are adding these guys in then

[spare badger]

I see

[placid reef]

Evrima is just a dream, wake up

[placid reef]

maybe, they will release the dinos that fit for the coming update, so as they come ready, prob ovi, beipi and cera then whatever they want next and fits

[spare badger]

Iirc they are just going to release them as they are ready

[placid reef]

yes

but that will most likely mean cera, ovi and beipi will be the first (or even before u9)

after that all cards are on the table

[ripe furnace]

People wouldn’t use carno. I’d recommend cera and dilophosaurus next

[ripe furnace]

How will magy survive an adult Rex

[placid reef]

speed and forests

[ripe furnace]

What is a strain

[ripe furnace]

They don’t look fast

[placid reef]

well forests if we ever get bushes (a.k.a the forest) that slow down bigger animals

[placid reef]

still faster thna a rex in this context, rex aint fast at all and they want maggy to be fairly fast

[placid reef]

these

[hot lintel]

@alpine plover cd on Teno's tail slam is probably the worst idea I've ever heard. After hitting a tail slam, what is a Teno supposed to do? Sit there and get face tanked by the Carno?

[placid reef]

cd would work if the ability was super effective, like even more than now (and maybe could have charges)

which i would expect to see a lot more rants here by people that just got nailed by it

[hot lintel]

Tail slam rants come from dummies who tried to face tank a Teno's ass and got killed because of it, it's almost as if that's the exact part of the Teno's body that you're supposed to stay away from

[placid reef]

well kinda, but saying that for cd to work here the ability needs to be very good so getting a hit actually does smth worth the cd, and failing well you have a cd, but then i know there will be so many people ranting that teno is broken bc they couldnt bait a slam, thats what i was trying to say

[barren oracle]

It is kinda broken

considering the herbivores got 3 useful playable that isle players deem ok to mix and only 2 useful carnivores that isle players despise being together despite them having no synergy

It would be nice to not not die to a teno tail slam hit

[hot lintel]

What you're basically saying is you should be able to make the easiest to avoid mistake in the game and not get punished for it, I get it

[barren oracle]

I mean to avoid it you starve

Carno aint got nothing on teno rn

its more of teno cant fail and carno has infinite ways to fail

plus oasis still exists...

[hot lintel]

A Carno that dies to a Teno is a bad Carno

All you have to do is bait out its tail slams, you get hit too many times, you disengage

[barren oracle]

I mean

[hot lintel]

Not to mention, 90% of these fights happen at a hotspot where there's dead bodies everywhere, so "fight the teno or starve" argument is bullshit because you can easily find easier food

[barren oracle]

baiting out tail slams kinda hard to do when your a new player, and your other option would be utah. Utah aint easy

[hot lintel]

Not falling for the baits is also hard on the Teno if he is a new player, you're not making a point

[crimson dune]

fucking herbi main, when someone says an herbi should be buffed, the suggestion gets lots of ticks but if you say a carnis hould be buffed, the suggestion gets mostly crosses

[hot lintel]

A new teno player will slam when a Carno makes a step towards even when 10 meters away

[barren oracle]

also the game is rogue like and

it isnt exactly easy to learn a carnivore

[hot lintel]

A suggestion for Teno tail slam to get a cooldown got mostly upvotes, you're literally wrong

[barren oracle]

if you mess up as a teno you can run back to your oasis heaven and be protected by the iron wall that is stego while you regen to try again

[hot lintel]

Yes and the solution is to nerf Teno, not to just remove oasis, good tactic

[crimson dune]

well, when it is something that is obviously a game problem that fuck up the esperience it is always ticked

[barren oracle]

It can 100-death

something larger than it

[hot lintel]

90% of the times it's not gonna happen

[crimson dune]

but for example, saying carno should have more stam, something that should happen, it gets down votes

[hot lintel]

It can only do that if it hits only headshots which will never happen cause the hitboxes are wonky and most of the times the Carno moves a little bit when hit by a slam

[alpine plover]

herbivore bias probs

[hot lintel]

Carno shouldn't have more stam

It's the fastest thing in the game, why tf should it be able to run half the map with one stamina bar?

[crimson dune]

yes, running is all it has, so why all the other carnivores who doesnt use speed, have more stam than caarno

[alpine plover]

You have the cooldown, while the Carno is stunned that way you can take time to run away but also you can’t fill on slaughter a Carno in in session of tail slams

[hot lintel]

That's the worst logic I've ever fucking heard

[crimson dune]

at least the same stam a utah, a dino who doesnt use speed as its maihn power

[barren oracle]

Teno is op comparing to carno

same with stego to deino

[hot lintel]

Cool, run away for all of 2 seconds until the Carno exits the stun and chases you, did you think about that for even 2 seconds before fucking saying it?

[alpine plover]

If you tail slam a Carno and it gets stunned that’s your opportunity to run away after already dealing a high damage attack

[placid reef]

nah stego is good, the problem is on deinos side

[hot lintel]

How tf are you gonna run away from the fastest thing in the game?

[alpine plover]

Yes. The Carno has taken a good chunk of damage after one. It might reconsider not going after you. And it it try’s again you can punish it with one more tail slam

[barren oracle]

Its good in the long run, just not rn....

[crimson dune]

well, utah can dodge it cause also it has much better maneuverability

[alpine plover]

But at least your not hitting it 3 times in succession

[barren oracle]

You seem really pissed

[hot lintel]

Y'all really love jerking off to Carno holy shit

[crimson dune]

and carno is only super fast while charging

[barren oracle]

My guy no one can kill tenos

[hot lintel]

You're legit asking for it to be op

[alpine plover]

or...you know...carno is undertuned

[barren oracle]

We're asking for it not to be shitstomped

[hot lintel]

It isn't

[barren oracle]

It is...

[hot lintel]

Skill issue, unironically

[crimson dune]

carno legs are made to run medium distances fast as fuck

[alpine plover]

I never said out speed it, I said give you time to walk away and let that Carno reconsider attacking you again

[hot lintel]

Yeah and that's fucking stupid

[alpine plover]

It’s punishing for Carno without full on killing it

[barren oracle]

Carno does like 150 damage per attack, teno does like 1.2k minimum per hit

[hot lintel]

Why should I be the one running away after the dumbass tried to facetank the one part of my body that he's not supposed to face tank?

[alpine plover]

If he gets cocky try’s again maybe he needs another tail slam to learn the lesson

[hot lintel]

With maths that bad I'd be surprised to find out you passed 4th grade

[barren oracle]

If they facetank you they die yes, but if they dont facetank you they still die

[barren oracle]

I dont know the exact damage dude

[alpine plover]

its 175 newtons iirc

[crimson dune]

carno right now is likem in legacy, the reason why people play is because it is the biggest land carnivore, when we get cerato most medium size carnivores will be cerato, like a 80% i guess

[hot lintel]

Then don't fucking pull out numbers out of your ass because you got them both wrong

[placid reef]

bite, yes

[alpine plover]

And why should Carno be forced to deal with someone with such insane fast turning that if you miss a microsecond you get punished with 3 consecutive tail slams and can’t do anything

charge is 350

[barren oracle]

one of them is 25 off and teno still does like 300 damage or something with tail slam, which it can use 4-5 times easily

[hot lintel]

Because the Carno literally played the game wrong

[alpine plover]

I played wrong by ambushing it and having that Teno do a 360 in .5 seconds

[hot lintel]

If you ambushed it you already won because your charge takes priority over its slam

[crimson dune]

carno charge is the easiest thing to dodge, if you don't dodge it being a
light dino, you should be banned

[barren oracle]

You dont win, it gets up and basically kills you like 3 seconds later

[alpine plover]

You realize you have to be full speed to charge, and that takes at least 2 seconds to do. Teno can counter all that in .5 seconds

[crimson dune]

carno shouldnt even be an ambush predator

[alpine plover]

I agree but with ass stamina…

[crimson dune]

but he is force to play like one

[crimson dune]

im on your side

[barren oracle]

Im into hard games and all, i love stuff like dying light, dark souls, blood borne ect, but i dont wanna have to spend 2h each time i wanna fight a teno with a carnivore...

[crimson dune]

i started the disccusion with karen saying carno should have more stam

[alpine plover]

Carno should be a chaser who can stay with prey but has to deal with a bad turn radius

the 2 ton theropod being a small tier hunter, yikes

[crimson dune]

carno rn what does have better than cerato? just speed

[barren oracle]

Yeah it deserves either better stam or less stam loss while charging

[alpine plover]

We don’t know Cerato stats so I can’t say anything

[crimson dune]

better stam is better

[placid reef]

and weight, thats a def

[crimson dune]

im ok with stam drain while charging

[crimson dune]

yeah, and thats a problem, and cerato will be grown in like 30 20 minutes less

if carno is not changed, i will play mostly cerato

[alpine plover]

Point being Carno is a broken creature who fails to even do its job at being a chaser and charger

It should chase smaller prey like Utah and Gali but charge and ambush stuff like Teno and cera

[hollow canyon]

If the stars aligns correctly for Tenonto - it only needs to land a hit once. It can either 100-0 a Carno or bring it so low that Carno has to end the fight(assuming it can actually do that).

I do agree with you though - putting a CD on the tailslam is an awful idea.

[crimson dune]

also pachy can stop a carno that has been charging at 55 km/h

[alpine plover]

It wouldn’t be a very long CD just enough so it can’t hit Carno 4 times in succession while stunned

[crimson dune]

and with teno you just have to stay still and turn around, if that is not the meaning of unbalanced, I don't what it is

[barren oracle]

It cant chase cause it cant turn T^T

[hollow canyon]

Why do that if you can just nerf the damage output of this attack which is the main reason for why this animal is so strong?

You can even give it compensatory buffs like a lower stamina cost.

[crimson dune]

stego has better stam than carno, that is fucked up

[alpine plover]

It’s not nerfing damage

[hollow canyon]

I mean - don't get me wrong the argument about Carno facetanking a Tenonto is just complete nonsense atm

Tenonto facetanks Carno using its clawswipes

[alpine plover]

The damage is fine, it‘a the fact that you can hit a Carno 4 times when stunned

[hollow canyon]

The damage isn't fine though

[alpine plover]

It should be high and punishing

[hollow canyon]

it's the third most damaging attack in the game by a large margin

[alpine plover]

But not high and quick damage

[crimson dune]

whoa re you talking about now?

[placid reef]

isnt the order like 1250 > 500 > 360 ? or is teno more?

[hollow canyon]

That's right

Stego>Deino>Tenonto>Carno/Pachy or something along those lines

I'm not sure how Pachy and Carno line up against one another in terms of damage

[placid reef]

charge i think is 350 but thats a 1 time use ability unlike slam

[hollow canyon]

It's less than that

[placid reef]

also the fact that slam might have as much damage as a sucho bite or smth

[alpine plover]

Carno deals fine damage to pachy, but pachy deals too much damage and can kill a Carno in 5 headbutt

[hollow canyon]

No, I mean - I'm not sure which one of them dishes out more damage

[alpine plover]

I would assume Carno

[hollow canyon]

as in - I'm not sure whether charge deals more damage or the ram

I wouldn't be too sure about that at all

[alpine plover]

I think charge is stronger but ram is not far behind damage wise

[hollow canyon]

I think it might be marginally stronger

[alpine plover]

Maybe

[hollow canyon]

my bet is on the charge dealing some ~300 damage tbh

I know that Carno needs 2 additional bites to finish off a Pachy(and Utah I think too?) after landing the charge

that would actually make it deal less than 300

either way these two are comparable, not sure which one deals more

[ocean wagon]

how would you feel if carno got fracture on its charge again?

just curious on your thoughts

[alpine plover]

What's the topic bois

[wise sparrow]

Honestly carno should only need 1 bite after it lands the charge

[hollow canyon]

I'm not a fan of Carno fracturing stuff tbh, I think it should CC via charge and then maul its prey

[alpine plover]

Problem is it can hardly do that against things like Cera or Teno

[fresh laurel]

Imo carno charge should be gareenteed stun on mid tiers

But when you go bugger than that... thats when it fails

[ocean wagon]

Ummm idk about that. Carno is on the smaller side of the mid tier. Teno is considered a small tier dino. So it would make sense for it to stun things in the small tier zone. But a carno running into an allo or a Maia and being able to stun them seems…:..very unrealistic even in the isle standards of realism

[fresh laurel]

Oh sorry i mean things that are close to carno size mostly

But still carno hitting you full speed would do some stun to something

[ocean wagon]

No, not to something like an allo or any of the other mid tiers who seriously outweigh carno. Just allo itself is about 1000kg heavier than carno

Carno can only hunt small tiers because anything mid tier would bully it around

[ripe furnace]

Tailslam needs a cool down it’s way to unrealistic and overpowered

Atleast like three seconds

[ripe furnace]

Kick it

[fresh laurel]

I think it should be end lag really

if you miss something as strong as slam then you need to be punishable

[ripe furnace]

End lag?

[fresh laurel]

like utah missing pounce

or pachy missing headbutt

endlaag

[ripe furnace]

I feel like ysilslam is something that would take lots of energy

[fresh laurel]

but at the same time slamming your tail like that only to hit the ground might cause some pretty heavy force to the tail

so I think endlag so carnivores can punish tenos who cant wait...

[ripe furnace]

What is endlag

[fresh laurel]

i just said it

[fresh laurel]

?!

[fresh laurel]

?!

you know that animation right?

[ripe furnace]

I don’t understand the analogy

[fresh laurel]

how so

[ripe furnace]

I think I do

I am not sure

[fresh laurel]

you miss a strong move so you kinda do a stunned animation

like when utah misses pounce it does a slow getup

so when teno doesnt think slam wont land then it will use kick

[ripe furnace]

Oh yeah but how would that look on a teno

If anything I think it should just be a cool down ability since it’s so powerful

[fresh laurel]

thing is a cooldown restricts it too much

and I dont really think we wanna bring cooldowns to evrima

[ripe furnace]

Three seconds wouldn’t be a bad thing though

[fresh laurel]

it will

[ripe furnace]

And it would stop Tenno brim stunnlocking adult carnos to death

[fresh laurel]

plus you could kick spam

sooo... thats why i say endlag

[ripe furnace]

Kick shouldn’t even stun anyway

I just wish carno was treated better

Maybe it’s charge should keep enemies in the ground longer

[fresh laurel]

if a horse kicked you to the face tell me what would happen

but i think slam should stun and kick should do fracture damage

[ripe furnace]

You’d probably stumble backward but carno is still much bigger than a Tenno anyway

[ripe furnace]

It’s kick doesn’t seem strong enough to fracture

[fresh laurel]

it is

i dont think carno would shrug off a teno kick to the head lol

plus kick is underused

[ripe furnace]

It would be stunned for a while but fracture is far yo much of a buff

Like if I got kicked by a teno I’d die but carno is a big animal

It would be fine

[fresh laurel]

its really not that big

[ripe furnace]

It’s big enough to be fine

[fresh laurel]

plus kick is hard to land rn so all you have to do is bait teno

[ripe furnace]

Teno is op anyway

[fresh laurel]

you would survive a fract if lucky

[ripe furnace]

And if it hits you once with its tail you’d die

[fresh laurel]

like a head or body you can still run

[ripe furnace]

Still seems too op

Teno is more of a scratcher

[fresh laurel]

eh if it hits a human yes but something like utah or bigger wouldnt get oneshotted

i find it funny utah hunted teno irl

[ripe furnace]

I’m saying that if you’re a carno a teno can stun lock you untill you die

[fresh laurel]

you cant stun lock ppl rn unless bug

but you can land multiple hits when something is stunned

[ripe furnace]

You can stun lock bunches of things with teno tail slam

[fresh laurel]

not a stun lock

[ripe furnace]

You can slam like 6 times In a row

[fresh laurel]

just cc

[ripe furnace]

They can’t move at all

That’s literally a stun lock

[fresh laurel]

stun lock are infinite stuns

[ripe furnace]

Obviously not infinite

[fresh laurel]

like you stay stunned forever

[ripe furnace]

That’s not the correct terminology

That’s a glitch

[fresh laurel]

eh doesnt matter anyways

[ripe furnace]

Stun lock is when the enemy can hit you repeatedly with a stun attack where you can’t move

They can just stun spam with their most powerful weapon

[fresh laurel]

except eventually you can move again

[ripe furnace]

By then you are already dead

They can slam an adult carno to death

[fresh laurel]

for utah yes but carno eh

[ripe furnace]

The carno can’t run away or anything

[ripe furnace]

What do you mean eh it happens on the time

[fresh laurel]

not for me

[spare badger]

Only with all headshots which is very very difficult

[wise sparrow]

(I'm pretty sure it lived with dinonychys I may be wrong tho)

[spare badger]

It was deinonychus

[alpine plover]

might i ask what your main is?

[fresh laurel]

i main utah

[alpine plover]

at least you dont have to wait to die if the numbskulls find you

[fresh laurel]

wdym

i forgot what i was talking about lol

[alpine plover]

packy

i think

[fresh laurel]

nah its teno pretty sure

well i said teno can kill utah with one stun which i kinda find annoying ngl

actually i find stuns as a whole annoying but eh

[spare badger]

Why shouldn't teno be able to kill Utah with one stun
It's over twice it's size

[fresh laurel]

hard to make stuns feel fair to people on the other side you know?

[fresh laurel]

didnt say it should i just said i find it annoying

[spare badger]

I guess so

[fresh laurel]

heres my thing on stun for smaller dinos

why does when utah is getting up from a stun it acts like its not taking dmg?

like irl your dino would of gotten up real quick and bolted

but rn we are stunned laying down and get up still stunned until all those animations are done

so really Im saying stuns are too long

[alpine plover]

true

[fresh laurel]

stun should really let you land an extra attack

thats it

not a freaking barrage of oras

[mental roost]

Pretty sure Deinoychus lived alongside Tenotosaurus...given we have remains of Deinoychus bite marks on Tenotosaurus bones, and eachother in one site.(Without any real evidence of the Deinoychus being the ones to bring down the Tenoto either)

[fresh laurel]

@spare badger

you did it...

you said the easiest way to balance the herbivores

[spare badger]

Wut

By teno losing 1 slam it can never 1 shot carnos
Kick is useful with a bigger hitbox
Pachy doesn't need a long stun since hitting a headbutt has no endlag
Pachy alt having stun is kinda daft

All I did was say 'shorten stuns by a little and make teno kick bigger'

[ripe furnace]

It still shouldn’t be possible

[spare badger]

Yea
I just gave feedback to that effect

I said that the stun should last for 1 less slam
So the carno would always survive

[fresh laurel]

which is the easiest way to balance them

i think devs would take a while to add fracture to kick and nerf slam dmg

or something like that

[fresh laurel]

@frosty niche

any reason pachy shouldnt be louder when running?

the plain dwelling animal?

[grim pulsar]

Pachy when head lifted should only be able to go straight. very little sideways motion. Less than carno charge. imho.

also pachy head charge should use more stam, maybe allow for 3 charges and done. Right now they just run all over the map with head up slamming things it seems.

Also with Pachy, the headbutt is cool, but shouldn't there be more of a straight run charge type headbutt as well? so like carno, head down, straight hit, the headbutt for close encounters. ?

so shift+rmb for running head down charge. then at close range hold rmb for short head up slamming headbutt, animation move you in a direction without having to walk or run, you just hold it down in a direction and your pachy lifts and runs a few steps to hit the target. ? Just a thought.

[fresh laurel]

I like this

and if other people dont then just have pachy speed get reduce heavily when charge a headbutt

[slim dragon]

I think it makes way more sense for pachy to move slower when charging a headbutt rather than making it unable to turn. It loses the weight distribution allowing it to run, not its leg mobility. Also what differentiates pachy from ceratopsians(combat-wise, although they both have weaponized heads) is the fact it can defend itself from any direction and cannot be outmanoeauvered easily like them

[fresh laurel]

Yea because rn when it charging at you full speed it makes pachy too easy to use

I think rn teno and pachy and stego are waaay to nice to bad players

like carnivores devs did a good job at making you know when a player is good at their dino

[placid reef]

what diferentiates it from them is that its a theropod not a quadruped, and both are low to the ground giving them very high stability for their build

[slim dragon]

Mechanically wise being a theropod changes nothing, apart from the fact it can crouch and quadrupeds can't (which shouldn't be a thing)

[placid reef]

crouchging for them (some) could be some defensive stance

[slim dragon]

Yes, or simply low-profile to make less noise and possibly leave less footprints

[placid reef]

crouching doesnt even reduce footprints so them getting that when noone else does is bad

[slim dragon]

Crouching completely removes footprint
But maybe it no longer does with the new tracking system

[placid reef]

ik for a fact it didnt do that before u4 and i think it still doesnt

[wise sparrow]

If pachy could only headbutt 3 times it would be the worst playable in the roster. Seeing as leg fractures are hard to get you you be fodder to carno and probably even utah

[barren oracle]

That’s an awful idea

The problem with pachy is it’s damage and (if it still can idk evrima is boring) it’s stun lock

luuuuuul

Animation of Utah v pachy

[spare badger]

See
That's why I said to nerf stun durations in the feedback
They seem to be the root of most balance issues

[brittle dirge]

Imo that's just a band-aid to the core issue which is how stun/fracture forces you to be stationary. If it stays like this imagine how awful combat will be further down the line lol

[wise sparrow]

Stun needs to be completely reworked seeing as if you cant stun your attacker you are fucked 6 ways from Sunday

Fights rn just boil down to "Did I get my stun off first? Yes? Then I win."

[spare badger]

That's kinda cause that's Tenonto's main gimmick

Pachy doesn't need it

[fresh laurel]

imo stuns should let you get 2 or 1 extra hit tbh

rn you legit hit them more times than a jojo character

[ripe furnace]

I think pachy standing up should be almost stationary

Like a goat

[wise sparrow]

N o.

[fresh laurel]

what does that mean

[wise sparrow]

If pachy cant move when it charges it would be screwed

[ripe furnace]

Like just standing in place it shouldn’t be able to run when standing very upright

[fresh laurel]

i think pachy when charging should move slower

[ripe furnace]

It could still charge just not with that one

[wise sparrow]

If pachy couldn't move when charging all you'd have to do is step to the side and boom its charge misses

[ripe furnace]

It could still turn in place

[wise sparrow]

Still with all the nerfs you've been proposing pachy won't be allowed to make a single mistake ever. If the pachy starts the charge just a second to soon it would never be able to hit anything

[fresh laurel]

heres my take on pachys charge
Make it have more endlag when it misses
make it not be able to go full speed when using it

[wise sparrow]

yes

[ripe furnace]

Pachy can still run and charge just not with the standing upright animation

[ripe furnace]

It has like 3 ways to do that

[wise sparrow]

Pachy needs a punishment for missing. Not instantly fucking imploding when it takes a wrong step

[fresh laurel]

lol

herbivores rn are too easy for new players

they should still be punished like the carnivores when not thinking right

[ripe furnace]

Pachy can still run and charge. I’m reffering the the animation where it stands upright and charges at you

It can still just do the running version

[wise sparrow]

What running version? It has a stationary head swing, the running ram, and a bite. The only attack it can use while running (that does actual damage) is the one you want nerfed into the ground

[fresh laurel]

if you make pachy not turn right when charging then it becomes carno ram but worst

[wise sparrow]

Yea he practically wants it to be smaller carno that dies to everyone

[ripe furnace]

It can always alt smash or regular chatge

[fresh laurel]

look im up for pachy nerfs but not turning when ramming is a bit harsh

[ripe furnace]

I said stationary not unturning

[fresh laurel]

so just walking?

[ripe furnace]

The one where it just headbutts by running forward

[wise sparrow]

Ok tell me what you press to "regular charge"