#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 313 of 1

dusky surge
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also how is that being a dick

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no offense taken lmao

spring dagger
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Nah cause im aboutta have a hot take

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SO NA players are fucked, i've seen them play and they're just bad all around when compared to other regions, you're probably having good luck because alot of the players there play like morons and get themselves killed through not using their environment. Whereas in EU Stegos are a pretty consistent problem, people coordinating stego herds into triangle formations and shit to protect smalls and other hurt herbivores which is really well played, guarding bodies left and right and generally just doing whatever since there is no risk to the animal actually dying.

An animal should not be functionally immortal when it hits 45% or so, which stegos are unless you get that one utah pack that completely destroys solo stegos, but stegos are rarely alone to begin with. There has to be something that can actually pressure them and keep them on their toes.

fresh laurel
spring dagger
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juvi stego does fucking half an adult utahs health at 10%

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thats fucked

stark lion
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Doesn't solve it cuz u can just grow in afk hours

spring dagger
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Yeah thats true

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I've seen mix packers fucking log on to a server with 2 people on it and they just sit there and AFK

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and grow, its usually deino and stego players

stark lion
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yep

rancid bluff
fresh laurel
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a moment of happiness that balancing is better than beast of bermuda

placid reef
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there is balancing?
ifdk, BoB comunity

fresh laurel
placid reef
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velo aint god there anymore? TI_Gasp

fresh laurel
spring dagger
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ptera can fucking pick up an acro

fresh laurel
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mosa can chill on land

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big bruh

spring dagger
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ye

spare badger
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pachy is supposed to make you not want to engage if you're seen

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cause it will debilitate you

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carno cannot fight things that punch up above their weight class. For any animal that can kill it (teno and pachy) it is necessary to ambush them and get a charge off. That's the point of charge. Carno isn't a brawler and shouldn't ever be.

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running from a pachy is how the matchup works, pachy can't run from you, but you can run from it.

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that's not how it should work for say, cerato vs. pachy, but carno is not cerato

hollow canyon
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Carno cannot punch up itself

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where does the idea of it being unable to fight things that punch up even come from?

spare badger
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No I was referring to pachy

hollow canyon
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I know you were referring to Pachy whose totally on Carno's menu

spare badger
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Pachy punches up

It's not unable to fight them
It's just you can't play stupid

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I was being a but hyperbolic
Apologies for the confusion

hollow canyon
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I see absolutely 0 reason why Carno shouldn't want to engage a herbivore 4 times smaller than itself

spare badger
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It should be able to

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I was simply stating that pachy has the advantage in the fight

hollow canyon
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The moment a Pachy is seen out in the open by a Carno it should be running for its life zig-zagging towards the closest forest, hoping it can potentially bonebreak that Carno before it gets munched

hollow canyon
spare badger
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It should have the advantage simply because it cannot escape a carno

That does not mean carno can't kill it
But it shouldn't be a free kill

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Am I making sense or nah?

spare badger
hollow canyon
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I really don't think that Carno can hunt in forests at all unless the person it's hunting is playing with the screen off/has been lobotomised

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Not a single Carno ever got to stay on me in a forest

spare badger
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Pachy is a brawler like teno, and the only carnivores around are glass cannons and carno which it is specially made to fracture and escape from
Pachy still dies in 3 hits

hollow canyon
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Yea, that's not the issue

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I'm perfectly fine with Pachy fracturing a Carno and escaping

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that's not what happens in the game right now though

spare badger
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Are you referring to the stunning?

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How pachy cancels attacks?

hollow canyon
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Both

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because those are separate issues - Pachy both stuns stuff and cancels attacks

spare badger
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I never understood why the alt stuns
That should be removed

hollow canyon
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Meanwhile it should do neither to animals larger than itself

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It's not just about alt, I don't think Pachy's alt attack Carno's much if at all

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it's about the ram stunning just as much

spare badger
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Ram stunning I'm ok with since otherwise you would get punished for landing your ability which is dumb

spare badger
hollow canyon
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The fact that Pachy gets to attack for free without being punished for it? Why should it stun an animal 4 times its size just because it hits it on the leg or torso? It would be fine if it applied a stun on a headshot but nothing else.

alpine plover
spare badger
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Well then why is pachy getting punished for doing the thing that it's supposed to do?

alpine plover
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often times even if you're aiming the best you can you just won't leg break a carno, and burning through that much stamina each attempt coupled with a carno actually knowing what they're doing means its very hard to kill a carno as a solo pachy

spare badger
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Pachy would become utter shit
Because a carno would just bite it and it would die cause it dies in 3 hits

hollow canyon
spare badger
alpine plover
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carnos dont even have to dodge your attacks anymore to take out a solo pachy granted the rng gods arent very much against them

dusky surge
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If you take off the stun on the ram, Pachy becomes Carno fodder

spare badger
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Exactly

hollow canyon
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It should hit the stun and get out, not stun the Carno to ram it again

spare badger
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Of course carbo should get stun immunity after getting hit

dusky surge
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Every single attack you land gets an attack back from any competent Carno, which means if you didn’t fracture the leg first try, you’re essentially fucked

alpine plover
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well obviously it should get fixed

hollow canyon
spare badger
alpine plover
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not really

spare badger
alpine plover
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how is it on you? the leg break hitbox is so specific and buggy that even on a private test server with really good ping and the carno standing completely still its very hard and awkward to hit

hollow canyon
spare badger
hollow canyon
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I said specifically "fracture", not "leg fracture" because if Carno gets fractured then it should suffer the consequences, the fact that body fractures are a joke is a separate issue although connected to this one.

spare badger
alpine plover
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well the alternative is buffing fractures and changing the hitboxes so much that pretty much all of them disable the carno on the first hit to compensate for the lack of stun, would you want that?

hollow canyon
spare badger
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The point is pachy still needs time to recover from the endlag and move out of range

hollow canyon
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Why?

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If you fractured the Carno and it can't run after you then you can get away

spare badger
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Wdym why?

hollow canyon
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even if it lands a hit on you you're fine

spare badger
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No
Because it can still bite you
And Pachy has very little health

hollow canyon
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so? It won't kill you with that bite

spare badger
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Pachy cannot trade hits with a carno

hollow canyon
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if you get bitten twice before then you just die if you let it bite you again

alpine plover
# hollow canyon It was Phil's point

and its a valid one, because by design body fractures have been stated to result in damage to the victim upon performing attacks, which would not solve any issues and still make leg break or the equally annoying to hit head fracture your only viable options

spare badger
hollow canyon
spare badger
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Why would you get punished for doing exactly what you are supposed to do?

alpine plover
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and even then the head fracture doesnt stop it from chasing you or following you around to bleed you out from any hits you might have sustained despite the damage nerfs

hollow canyon
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that's it, there's risk that's carried with applying those

spare badger
hollow canyon
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that's like the argument that Utahs get punished for landing the pounce

spare badger
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That's the point
Pachy can't take a bite

alpine plover
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a pachy is better off jumping onto a rock and hoping that a carno goes away than it is praying to the gods of rng

spare badger
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Even if a carno can only land 2 hits
Does that mean if pachy takes even a single hit it's game over? That's pretty shitty design

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The stun is there so pachy can break the leg and not die during the attack

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Pachy becomes fodder if the stun is removed

alpine plover
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its not even like a forest saves a pachy from death, so its not like we're just cucked by the diet spawns

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no matter how bad carnos turn is, its still incredibly fast, you are not losing it in a forest, it might help you get a sneak hit or two in, but without a stun, guess what, you get bit for playing the game TI_dondiSmile

hollow canyon
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I've seen a video of a Pachy soloing a Carno via stuns and dodging the bites

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the fact that this is even doable is a joke

alpine plover
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okay but its dodging hits and the carno isnt, the fuck?

spare badger
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It can be retaliated
If the carno can call it out

alpine plover
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why would that make it overpowered?

hollow canyon
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not stunlocking it though

spare badger
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How does it stunlock

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The game gives stun immunity after stun attack

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That's why teno isnt broken

hollow canyon
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It gives stun immunity to Tenonto's stuns for a short moment, based on what I've seen it's a much smaller window with Pachy

spare badger
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So when you say it stunlocks
Lemme make sure we are thinking about the same thing
You mean the carno can never move or do anything cause it's constantly stunned right?

alpine plover
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stunlocking is pretty specific to time surprisingly enough (especially since stuns dont always last the same duration nor do they work sometimes either), and if its happened to you then using some anecdotes of a very smart player to explain why an entire dinosaur should get almost its entire defence removed is stupid as shit

hollow canyon
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Also - this whole thing with Pachy being unable to move after using ram is nonsense

alpine plover
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stunlocks do need to be addressed, so do fractures, but this doesnt change the problem

hollow canyon
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I'm literally just watching the delay that Pachy has after landing a ram

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and it's borderline non-existent

alpine plover
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guess what usually happens when a pachy doesnt get a few consecutive hits, it gets hurt a lot, chased down, or the predator just gets to fucking leave and come back in like 5 minutes

spare badger
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Hold up
I could've sworn there was more endlag than that

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Alright Aken
I see your point

hollow canyon
spare badger
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Although I don't agree that the stun should not exist
I can say that the stuns duration can do with being shorter

hollow canyon
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that could also work

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maybe just shortening that stun would do

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idk, but atm based on what I've seen Pachy is way too good

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that endlag barely even exists

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which is a good thing btw

spare badger
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Alright
We have reached a nice middle ground

hollow canyon
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I think that an animal stunning itself while using its ability is just atrocious design

spare badger
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Buff body fracture
Nerf stun duration

hollow canyon
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But so is the idea of a 500kg fracture based animal CCing animals larger than itself

barren oracle
spare badger
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As long as the stun is short enough it should be good eh

barren oracle
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Isn’t pachy a 1/3 of carnos size

hollow canyon
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even smaller than that

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500kg vs 2t/1.8t depending on what you go with

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in game it's 1.8t so let's go with that

barren oracle
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Yeah like real smol

alpine plover
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pretty much everyone knows stunlocking isnt good
it doesnt make pachy overpowered because a few people know how to do it really well
but there needs to be something there to compensate because many a time no consecutive hits equals death or injury thats just an inconvenience to both sides
this is the same mindset the devs had with the utah changes, a few good players knew how to fight a stego, so then they made the experience more painful for everybody without anything to compensate, and guess what? The same Utahs can STILL solo a stego, it just takes them longer

barren oracle
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So in theory is really shouldn’t be doing much if it’s hitting it’s body

hollow canyon
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I mean... Pachy is overpowered

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that's really not even disputable

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it's about how it's going to get nerfed

barren oracle
alpine plover
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we've been disputing it the entire time

barren oracle
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Mf can cancel a stego swing

alpine plover
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saying it over and over again doesn't make it true

spare badger
hollow canyon
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No lol, we were disputing whether removing its stun is the right way to nerf it

spare badger
barren oracle
hollow canyon
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The fact that it's overpowered is clear like day to literally anyone with a sound mind

barren oracle
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But like a body hit is meh why should it stagger if it’s getting hit there

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It would make pachys have to put mild effort into the fight

spare badger
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It's slightly overtuned
Not broken though

barren oracle
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I wouldn’t put it above prime carno

hollow canyon
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It's completely overtuned and it will get nerfed, the question is how exactly it's going to get nerfed aside from the obvious bug-fixes

barren oracle
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But it’s not far off

dusky surge
alpine plover
dusky surge
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pounce cancels so many anims for no good reason

spare badger
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If they make it so the stun lasted less time pachy would be alright
Of course body fractures would need to be buffed along side it

sharp hinge
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Don't forget that carno seems designed to be played as a hit and run attacker, the problem with trying to fight pachy is that its nimble enough to dodge your clumsy charges if it can see you, its stun defeats strafing attempts where you sprint in and bite, and facetanking doesn't work since it can get some good hits in and easily run circles around a fractured carnivore (especially when you're half blind)

barren oracle
spare badger
hollow canyon
# dusky surge lmao true

The reality so far in this game is that if herbivores are undertuned most people agree that they need some help. When they get overtuned and are overpowered however half this discord claims that they are perfectly fine.

dusky surge
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it cancels resting, it cancels sleeping, it cancels drowning, i can bet it would cancel charge too

barren oracle
dusky surge
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it kinda sucks since ambushing something while it rests would be a REALLY good idea but if you pounce someone while they rest, they just snap to standing

barren oracle
hollow canyon
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When Stego was bad pretty much everyone aside from a couple of Utah mains claimed that it needed help and debated how to fix it, when Carno had bagajillion stamina in update 2 everyone agreed that it needed a nerf there and a higher stamina drain on charge.

dusky surge
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getting that pounce in while a stego gets up from a rest would make it far more effective

hollow canyon
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When Tenonto was hotgarbage during the MT everyone debated how to fix it exactly

barren oracle
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300 plus per Dino at this point

dusky surge
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would they even need new anims?

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you could just slap the utah on the side of the resting animal

barren oracle
hollow canyon
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When Deino was an absolute menace in update 3.5 everyone agreed that it needed nerfs, meanwhile when herbivores(Pachy, Tenonto and Stego) end up being way stronger than their carnivore counterparts half the people in this discord claim that "I can 1v2 Carnos as a Tenonto, Tenonto has never been balanced as well as it is now")

hollow canyon
barren oracle
dusky surge
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Then it'd get off? I don't see what you're talking about

barren oracle
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It seems like it would create a world of bugs but it would be pretty cool

alpine plover
# hollow canyon The fact that it's overpowered is clear like day to literally anyone with a soun...

uhhh no, I've played Carno much longer than I've even considered playing Pachy, and its not too often I hop on one, and I still consider it completely my fault if I die to a solo or even a duo, because apart from a bit of bad rng theres always a way I could've played it better, or a way I could've cheesed the entire fight by trying to facetank or chase it assuming they get some bad rng which isnt rare, and thats quite literally the opposite of how you're supposed to deal with a pachy. There is no bias, there is no lack of experience, I'm seeing it how it is from a gameplay and ecosystem point of view. Nothing about Pachy is broken par the ability to stunlock even if it can be hard which i've already acknowledged is bad

barren oracle
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Ngl carno even needs a buff at this point

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Not a big one

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But like that turn speed it aids

sharp hinge
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but then utah would be literally useless

alpine plover
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now if we want to talk alt attack cooldown id be happy to, i think it needs a slightly longer one so it cant spam it as much against utahs, however everything else besides those two things is far from overpowered

hollow canyon
barren oracle
hollow canyon
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Or are you trying to 1v2 Carnos as a Pachy?

barren oracle
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That’s bad

sharp hinge
barren oracle
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Stagger with pachy makes me unhappy

hollow canyon
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Because I'm genuinely not even sure how to approach this whole message but just based on what you're saying there it seems that something is really wrong with the balance if you are doing either

barren oracle
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Like remove stagger from body hits and I would be in heaven

hollow canyon
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^

barren oracle
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Stagger in general is pretty unfair

hollow canyon
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Pachy has no business stunning a Carno on a bodyhit, it also has no business knocking down Utahs with its alt attack

alpine plover
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I'm yet to die to a single pachy since the one that ambushed me from the bushes in the mechanic test when fractures are really good, but yes, I am human, I make mistakes and play poorly from time to time, and I completely own up to them even if rng is involved, because my mistake was trying to take any more than one of them without a real strategy

barren oracle
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Lul it’s 12:40 am rn don’t trust most of what I say because I woke up at 5am yesterday

barren oracle
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But you can’t turn to dodge them and they can stun you and destroy your hp

hollow canyon
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If you can land a headshot on a Carno you can win that fight 1v1 and quite easily

barren oracle
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They are supposed to like hit and run against carno

hollow canyon
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since you just facetank Carno at that point

barren oracle
hollow canyon
alpine plover
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oh so now we've gone from "pachy really needs nerfs" to "oh you die to pachys sometimes what are you fucking stupid" yall are being really confusing

hollow canyon
barren oracle
hollow canyon
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I'm saying that if Carno is dying 1v1 to Pachy

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then that means Pachy is too strong

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got it? It's the legacy equivalent of Allo soloing a Rex

barren oracle
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Just carno also needs buffed cause homie can turn less than something that doesn’t turn a lot idk

hollow canyon
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that should not be happening

barren oracle
hollow canyon
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Not even going with Utah since that would be like Carno dying to a single Troodon

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Carno should have to play absolutely awfully to die to a single Pachy

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and atm it doesn't have to play awfully at all based on what I've seen

barren oracle
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Troodon player base after there is only like 3 of them on the server TI_DeinoBruh

alpine plover
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and that is the case (even if bad players can still get the kills sometimes), so the problem is?

hollow canyon
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No, it really isn't the case

barren oracle
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I’m a ptera main I see it twice an hour

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They go to get a drink, a pachy comes out of the bush and body shots it and stun locks it

hollow canyon
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Pachy should have as much of a chance of soloing a Carno as Utah does

alpine plover
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bruh, it has to not die and hit it to get away from it

dusky surge
alpine plover
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if a pachy somehow finishes off a carno even when the carno is leg broken thats on the carno and thats completely fair

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what it shouldnt have done is get leg broken in the first place, which right now is really fucking hard to do

hollow canyon
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Let me ask it this way: what would you rather 1v1 a Carno as? Utah or Pachy?

barren oracle
alpine plover
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the thing that is built to defend against one

hollow canyon
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Because out of those two it's Utah that's supposed to be hunting the larger animals

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So obviously Pachy

barren oracle
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Pachy do be overtuned

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There’s stunning a carno

alpine plover
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utah can outmanoeuvre and is a pack hunter, thats how it plays, pachy is stuck in a defensive position in pretty much all carno encounters

hollow canyon
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no surprise there since Pachy dumpsters Utah while also having better match ups against... well - literally every other animal with maybe an exception of Stego

barren oracle
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Then there is giving carnos ptsd

hollow canyon
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No, you're really not stuck as a Pachy

alpine plover
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so yes i do think its completely fair that it can defend against one considering all of that and besides stunlocking again i really dont see the issue here

barren oracle
hollow canyon
barren oracle
hollow canyon
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cause it can cancel Stego's attacks

barren oracle
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That’s the issue, it lasts like 2 years

barren oracle
alpine plover
barren oracle
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I’ve tried it personally with a bunch of friends

hollow canyon
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I think you've missed much more than that

barren oracle
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Works surprisingly well cause your stun locking

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What are they gonna do? Move? Pffffft

alpine plover
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passive aggression couple with repeating the same things both isn't helping the argument and is hurting my head so I think I'm just gonna leave carnivore bias to be carnivore bias and call it a day

barren oracle
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Pachy stun locks carno

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Pachy stuns it to the body

alpine plover
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okay

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cry about it

barren oracle
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Pachy wins in a 1v1

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Pachy do be busted

alpine plover
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as it should be, sucks for the carno then doesnt it

barren oracle
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Ok I guess

hollow canyon
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I mean I guess this is the gist of the thing - you think Pachy should be winning 1v1 against an animal that's 4 times its size and has a significantly longer growth time

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That's the basic premise that we disagree on

barren oracle
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Trash man

hollow canyon
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There's no point in discussing how exactly this should work because we have a vastly different ideas about how these animals should go about each other when encountering one another

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you think Pachy should be winning 1v1, I completely disagree

barren oracle
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Only fitted 4 people

hollow canyon
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I think it killing a Carno should be a one in a 100 rare occurrence typically caused by Carno playing absolutely atrociously and that it should be about as likely to happen as Utah soloing a Carno

barren oracle
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Made me sad we had like 10 people with the Chad skin ready

barren oracle
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Straight of the bat

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Then I can see it

hollow canyon
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If you are incapable of getting a Carno off of you right now after Pachy's buffs to agility then that seems like more of a "you" issue than anything else

barren oracle
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(I think he do be gone)

hollow canyon
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I'm aware

barren oracle
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As soon as it hits 1am I’m out too

sharp hinge
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A pachy 1shotting a carno with a headshot would be like a grizzly bear drying to a bighorned sheep

barren oracle
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I got art gcse work to do and it pains me

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Then I got a boxing match on Wednesday

sharp hinge
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That's neat I guess

barren oracle
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Cause bears do this thing where they just bitch slap their opponents

hollow canyon
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It's not oneshotting it, it's just that it pretty much won the fight if it fractures Carno's jaw

barren oracle
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And send them flying

hollow canyon
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if you can land a ram on Carno's head you've won the fight

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you can facetank that Carno now

barren oracle
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Actually gold to watch irl

sharp hinge
barren oracle
barren oracle
hollow canyon
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It's not just about vision leaving the room, it's about the damage output

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Carno just deals insignificant damage past that point

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and you can just kill it unless it can run away and lose you

barren oracle
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Vision is gone too

sharp hinge
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And what if there are two pachy's?

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The carno is fckin DED

barren oracle
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You still win hopefully

hollow canyon
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Well Carno'd better have a tonne of stamina at that point or else it's dead

sharp hinge
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Exactly

barren oracle
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I mean like it’s putting 2 Utah’s against a teno as a comparison that doesn’t work well cause im@tired

sharp hinge
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Kinda the reverse of that

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Teno still nukes utah if its tail hits even once

barren oracle
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I don’t like stagger on body hits against carno as pachy

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That is the lesson here

sharp hinge
barren oracle
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Many lessons

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The others I’m too dumb to see

sharp hinge
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#1 - If you're a carno and you see a pachy running towards you, RUN.

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It's either confident and wants to mess you up bad or (worse) it has friends coming

sonic smelt
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utah not being able to eat its fallen comrades is kinda bad and here is my reason why. was a 100% steg. killed off an entire pack of 6. another pack shows up and continues the fallen packs hunt. I did everything right in that scenario and was still punished for it.

sharp hinge
sonic smelt
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yes. after a 20 minute battle

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very annoying

sharp hinge
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What was the problem? That +10 utahs shouldn't be able to kill a stego?

sonic smelt
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that after wiping the floor with one pack I couldnt do anything about the other. if somehow a pack that big forms and is cohesive then yeah, thats fine, but I killed 6 of them. that should be enough.

hollow canyon
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I think it's about how they should be able to eat the fallen Utahs

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I can assure you that even if they could they would've still gone after you and killed you

sonic smelt
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exactly

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I doubt it. they were never this ravenous before. they did it because they had to.

hollow canyon
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It's literally never stopped people from going after their prey, but you know, now we have diets so they are further encouraged to kill you because of the nutrients

sharp hinge
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The problem is that that would encourage utah cannibalism - which is pretty irritating since a utah can kill another with ease if it gets a full pounce and pins its target

sonic smelt
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it has stopped players before. a lot, for any pack really. kill enough of them and they stop

hollow canyon
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I've never seen something like that happen

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I typically had to always wipe the pack before they stopped

sharp hinge
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It happens (in Legacy)

hollow canyon
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both in Evrima and in the legacy unless it's some body down server

sonic smelt
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how many hours do you have? and it also happened in evrima before diets

sharp hinge
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Me?

sonic smelt
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aken

hollow canyon
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Trust me, you don't want to ask me about my hours

sonic smelt
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I do.

hollow canyon
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because it's way more than I want to admit

sonic smelt
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it can't be any worst than 2,611

sharp hinge
#

I have 15k on another game

hollow canyon
#

Yea, it's worse

#

let's just say that I have over 1k in Evrima

sharp hinge
#

again - I have 15k

#

There is no shame in being an addict

hollow canyon
#

I've been an addict

sonic smelt
#

then you must have been fighting some really dumb packs

hollow canyon
#

Update 4 cured my addiction

#

No, it's more so about people just wanting to kill more than they cared about their self-preservation

sonic smelt
#

because other than that I cant believe you havent seen packs stop fighting. it happened regularly

sharp hinge
#

Or sunken cost fallacy

hollow canyon
#

or that too ^

#

I rarely ever saw packs stop going after someone because they lost a couple of their friends

#

Actually I can think of 1 or 2 situations

#

but those were really incompetent Utahs

sharp hinge
sonic smelt
#

then you must have been running mostly into dumb packs, regaurdless, was very annoying to win and get punished for it

#

and marv knows thats how it goes

hollow canyon
#

back during update 2 I've had a pack that was after my Tenonto and after I'd killed like 4 of them and started trotting away into the woods they started talking to each other on global chat and lost me because they weren't shutting up

sharp hinge
#

Winning is surviving tho, so you technically lost

hollow canyon
#

And it's not about stupidity - people just like to kill stuff in the game, I rarely ever saw people just go and take the bodies of their comrades rather than go after another person that'd killed them

sharp hinge
#

Yeah, people like that kill me a lot

alpine plover
#

Update 2 was imo, peak evrima

at least in terms of overall enjoyability

sharp hinge
#

Never EVER trust creatures of the same species

hollow canyon
#

It went downhill since then

alpine plover
#

sure the performance wasn’t the best, but it was far better than it is now

#

yeah 2 fps at center because I said so fuck you

hollow canyon
#

the game itself was just far more fun imo

sharp hinge
#

I definitely liked the update 2 map design and visuals better

#

felt less like a big box in the center

hollow canyon
#

Every match up was more interesting aside from Stego-ones which were kind of bad for Stego

#

Utah vs Carno was better, Tenonto vs Carno was better and even arguably Tenonto vs Utah was better

alpine plover
#

it was chaotic how everything was pretty strong, was fun though

sonic smelt
#

no it usually was stupidity whenever a pack would continue fighting after losing half its members before diets. in my experience they would flea or die after losing so many. except this. every utah and its mother showed up after I killed 6 and I couldnt do anything about it.

hollow canyon
#

Dryo was much better too because it was actually slower and had to utilise its agility to get away rather than run in a straight line

sharp hinge
#

gally tactics

alpine plover
#

update 3 dryo when it was better utah

sharp hinge
#

dunno about that XD

hollow canyon
#

Update 3 Dryo was absurdly good

#

75 biteforce

#

literally 0 effort growth

sharp hinge
#

Really? Wow

hollow canyon
#

a mob of these bad boys could mow down a Stego if you weren't careful

sharp hinge
#

I don't remember that

#

Wow I missed out

hollow canyon
#

Cause barely anyone played Dryo at the time

sharp hinge
#

I did T_T

hollow canyon
#

It was already borderline extinct

sonic smelt
#

if the cannibalization debuff will remain, I think its pounce needs a bleed nerf. because you no longer see several small packs, it's just one giant server wide pack.

hollow canyon
alpine plover
#

the ecosystem is just awful right now and will continue to be awful for quite some time

hollow canyon
#

This animal has become so awfully one-dimensional now

#

I'd just outright change Utah back to a damage dealer instead of a bleeder

#

and rework its pounce slightly

alpine plover
#

the missed pounce animation is unnecessarily long

sharp hinge
sonic smelt
#

no mega packs appear because you cant cannibalize.

sharp hinge
hollow canyon
sonic smelt
#

2 utah pounces is enough to kill a carno

sharp hinge
sonic smelt
#

still enough

sharp hinge
#

and then they're easy pickings with no stamina

#

Put yourself in the utah's place

dusky surge
# hollow canyon Update 3 Dryo was absurdly good

U3 dryo was probably one of, if not the best, animals in the ecosystem. Great speed, great agility, great stam, ez growth times, shockingly good damage output. If a dryo didn't want to die, it was extremely unlikely it would

sonic smelt
#

ive played utah

sharp hinge
#

A lot?

sonic smelt
#

enough to know the pounce could survive a change

hollow canyon
alpine plover
#

Pretty sure you could literally just afk a dryo without eating or drinking back during update 3

sharp hinge
hollow canyon
#

(rightly so)

dusky surge
#

People didn't play dryo because, as it does now, it had literally no special niche

hollow canyon
#

This dumb animal got to full adult by afking for 30 minutes and then could go on murder people

#

Yea nobody played Dryo even when it was arguably the best animal in the game

dusky surge
#

Dryo is such a mechanically bankrupt animal that no one wants to touch it, even when it's completely absurdly broken

alpine plover
#

loved murdering pteras as it though

dusky surge
#

It needs SOMETHING

sharp hinge
#

diggy diggy hole?

dusky surge
#

Burrowing, nocturnal habits, idc, just SOMETHING

hollow canyon
#

it's just that... this might be a shocker, but aside from certain outliers... people like big dinosaurs and want to play the big dinosaurs

sharp hinge
#

because they are stronker and less punishing to play as

dusky surge
#

I would actually play dryo if it had more to offer than what it does

hollow canyon
#

There's a tonne of people that see this game and think "Oh I will get to play Rex, cool!" or "Omg, I will get to be a trike and stab things to death". Not that many people thinking "Holy cow, I get to run around as a Dryosaurus and... chirp at stuff"

sharp hinge
#

But that's super fun if it has a cool call

alpine plover
#

that is why adding this many small animals is kinda worrisome

hollow canyon
#

It's fun for about 5 minutes

alpine plover
#

who’s going to play homalo over allo

hollow canyon
sharp hinge
hollow canyon
hollow canyon
dusky surge
alpine plover
#

yeah here’s pachy, but it’s stuck as a juvenile forever

dusky surge
#

sounds hilarious

#

im in

sharp hinge
alpine plover
#

dude what about seagull velo

sharp hinge
#

T_T

alpine plover
#

make the fucker fly and eat trash

sharp hinge
#

you mean like homalo?

alpine plover
#

yeah that

sharp hinge
#

Imagine pteras getting nabbed by flying rats

#

Just flapping along then a velo comes shooting up out of the trees

fresh laurel
#

wait can pachy, dryo and hypsi graze?

dusky surge
#

yes

#

they're herbivores

alpine plover
#

anything that likes to eat plants is able to graze, yes

fresh laurel
#

just wondering since wouldnt it make sense for grass to really not do anything at all for their high metabolisms

chilly lynx
#

I personally like playing as the smaller stuff. Yeah it kind of bites you in the butt a lot, but playing as a dilo in legacy was honestly quite fun. You was fully aware that most things could kill you easy, yet you was also aware that, if given time, you could whittle away almost anything if they were alone. It also doesn't help that im a sucker for DoT of any form in any game.

dusky surge
#

Small things are fun imho, I like running from the rex more than actually playing it a lot of the time

#

Small things get more fun the bigger everything else is

#

Because then the big things start to scare the fuck out of you

chilly lynx
#

I watched a short video at one point of a gen 2 human getting snuck up on by a carno, and just getting taken. This is what I want to see in this kind of game, the pure horror aspect of turning around, and seeing your buddy get kidnapped by a dino multiple times his size.

stark lion
#

Alright, well I finally understand all the shit people say about Deino after playing with it today

proud anchor
#

@half girder Why didn't you include the 1 second video tho..?

half girder
#

idk why the stego tail swing disrupt is so big of an issue, yes it’s a bug that needs to be resolved, but the only thing that can take down a stego is another. and i’ve never ever seen a pachy doing that stuff in the 300hrs i’ve played over the past 3 months

#

also, was fighting pachys the other day and literally won as utah, was a 5v4 i think, made them headbutt each other, timed pounce after headbutt, though the game can get buggy as usual and almost kill me. i think we took down like 1 cuz stegos showed up, nearly killed 3

#

lmao no

#

totally feels like pachy has the blood pool of a hypsi but nope

placid reef
#

just that utah bleed is so strong and pachy is low weight

#

also all abilities increase bleed, and we all know pachys fav move

half girder
#

let’s have pachy not be able to take out a utah tho, doesn’t need to let the utah heal up while another utah toys with the pachy, but if utah hits a 2 sec pounce and bleeds the pachy to 60% it’s fine!

#

idk, to me rn it’s 50 50

#

with a bit of rng

half girder
placid reef
half girder
#

yes

placid reef
#

depends, if the utah is smart (knows to ambush etc) andt he pachy knows to abuse alt and (for the time beeing) tap charge would win way more than utah

half girder
#

for the time being try to not get hit maybe?

#

server can be a bugger tbh

#

but i find baiting headbutts easy these past days

placid reef
#

heatbuts, when they are charged and not the bug are not a problem, if you really get hit to one of those you must be blind or smth, alts tho are spammed (with 35 of them untill no more stam) with great speed and apply more CC than teno ever wished, and takes priority over pounce

half girder
#

priority can be a server thing

#

i’ve played both sides and i def feel like some stupid sh*t hits me with both

placid reef
#

its not, its in the patch notes i think, but if not thedesv said some abilities take priority

half girder
#

well not in my world lol

placid reef
#

servers do have a play in that but at base priority exists

half girder
#

can go both ways

placid reef
half girder
#

yep

placid reef
#

there was also that funky vid from some qa i think with pachy taking priority over teno slam when it should be the otherway, so there def is some funky shit going on there, but for pachy, its supposed to take priority

half girder
#

i rem alt biting a utah and it phases from the ground and pounce me

placid reef
#

but bug will be bugs and be a pain in our ass

half girder
#

oh

#

i have a vid of me collision with teno tail slam

#

teno won and i was stunned for a decade

placid reef
#

ye there def is some funky shit going on back end, like priorities, hitboxes etc but at least we know how its supposed to work

half girder
#

mhm

#

ok here’s my thoughts on pachy

placid reef
#

i really hope that after the mechanics are in (roadmap ones and burrowing) the next one is sandbox and a huge patch for balancing, fixes etc, would make testing, theorizing, balancing so much easier than just going by what we know is supposed to happen without actual seeing it, also sandbox would please that half of the comunity who just wants pvp

half girder
#

reduce stun time of headbutt depending on charge time, increase stun immunity window, diminishing effect on alt bite but not too serious cuz it’s silly atm, increase baby pachy speed aswell as juvie, allow utah to pounce from the front of a pachy, add very slightly more endlag to a missed pachy headbutt, i would say reduce the turn radius but i don’t see a prob with it.

placid reef
#

turning is fine imo, prob just a bit to much, like in qa it was exactly the opposite, garbage and now its really good so just a bit slower, and in general pretty sure utah cant pounce from the front but never tried it

half girder
#

yeah i did it and almost died

#

i always thought it was a bug and it’s dumb

placid reef
#

utah for me has really been my fav dino t otry to balance and have suggestions for, most making it more fun to play and not a one trick pony

half girder
#

i was thinking on posting that in feedback but i’ll get a nice red X

placid reef
#

ye i stopped trying to think for stuff for that channel bc peopole are really close minded most of the time, very biased, or it just gets flooded by garbage and even if its good people never see it

half girder
#

yeah

#

“nerf pachy it’s bugged” i rem seeing

#

anyway i’m glad i can have some one to talk who doesn’t ratio my thoughts

placid reef
barren oracle
#

Kick

#

secretary raptor

frosty heron
#

Imo the Pachy vs Utah matchup only feels close to 50/50 in a 1v1 scenario only which is the rarest encounter you gonna have, in groups Pachy def are stronger than a group of Utahs, at least those who can actually aim their headbutts

#

Im not gonna mention how the server performance and desync favours the "defensive" player, in this case the Pachy

hollow canyon
#

@spare badger I'm just going to point out that it gets progressively harder to understand what people mean when they use the expression "turn radius". When someone speaks about "increasing the turn radius" they typically mean "to increase the turn rate"(which is the proper phrasing). However you seem to be implying that the devs should nerf Pachy's turn rate if I understand correctly. Mind clarifying whether I'm correct here and potentially fixing that in your feedback because it's not very clear the way you have written it there?

#

Not that I disagree with the suggestion(although I honestly wouldn't even nerf the turn rate of Pachy, just stick with 1 and 3 for now).

#
  • fix its juvenile stage and the coconuts being unattainable during its early growth stages
spare badger
hollow canyon
#

Aight

#

Although I still see the "increase turn radius" there, but it's up to you, if people understand what you mean I guess you can leave it

spare badger
#

I removed it

spare badger
hollow canyon
#

I'd hold on with nerfing that tbh

#

I don't like nerfing turn rates in general

spare badger
#

Pachy shouldn't be able to turn and headbutt a Utah in a split second
That's what the alt should be for

spring dagger
#

Just nerf the tap charge effectiveness heavily and remove the stun on it's ALT when fighting utah

#

Just make the ALT do alot of damage to substitute

spare badger
#

I forgot the alt stuns Lemme add that

alpine plover
half girder
#

lmao

fresh laurel
#

I dont think the giant herds of pachys and tenos would even try to look at rex

half girder
#

no shit

fresh laurel
#

how do you think giga will be balanced now

half girder
#

dont know

#

this game is gonna be dogw*ter the more dinos are added

fresh laurel
#

cus ppl say its trot was broken for tracking

half girder
#

scent is fucked rn, buggy and op

fresh laurel
#

and evrima scent is very good

fresh laurel
half girder
#

yeah tbh

fresh laurel
#

'or lead you to something general location

#

not exact

half girder
#

crouching hides tracks tho

fresh laurel
#

something would find you

fresh laurel
half girder
#

lmao

#

i mean it can jump onto things

#

swim fast too

fresh laurel
fresh laurel
spring dagger
#

The game is pretty balanced with the exception of pachy tap charge and ALT spam

fresh laurel
#

Unkillable

barren oracle
#

Game doesn’t have a big enough roster to be killable

hot lintel
#

@spare badger why would you want to completely remove the stun on Pachy's alt attack? I understand a nerf to how long it lasts because it totally lasts too long, but removing it completely would basically be getting rid of the ability. I'm sure most Utah players would trade some raw damage with no bleed and no stun from the Pachy in favor of stacking some deadly bleed on it. You can't have an ability that doesn't do bleed, doesn't stun, doesn't fracture and costs stamina and requires you to be stationary all at the same time, it would literally be a useless ability at that point.

spring dagger
#

Except its not a useless ability in the slightest if you land a charge because you can kill a utah in 2 seconds, not to mention the utility of it cancelling pounce is already potent in itself. ALT does not need a stun.

#

As someone whose played pachy alot, i can tell you its fine even with the proposed changes to it's ALT actually going through. The bone break is already a big enough detriment on the ram as it is, people make out that body fracture is inconsequential to carno when in the grand scheme of things it is not, especially if you are already on low stamina. Leg break = death always and theres no outplaying it

alpine plover
#

isle discord users make their fucking mind up for once challenge (impossible)

unknown.png
#

literally my mans made a post about some of the same shit they were talking about the other day and they were like "nah, i don't believe in this anymore"

vernal jewel
#

Giving my support to Deino needing more lung capacity! 🫁 🐊
Possibly even based on movement.

barren oracle
#

I don’t want pachy hard nerfed

#

I just want it’s stun on body hits against carno gone

#

I have no problems other than that and stun lock

#

Also alt attack stun is on pachy is fine it just needs higher stam for it

#

Pachy is fine otherwise

potent warren
#

the issue with stego having something to fear is that rn, the things that are hunting it shouldnt give it fear unless in large numbers. Stego is seen as an apex herbivore and should be treated as such, ofc its overly strong against a carno or utah pack of 3. It's suppose to struggle against rexes or even a pack of albertos or acros. For the current meta its a hard thing to place as our only apexes is in the water primarily

fresh laurel
hollow canyon
#

Deino isn't meant to be hunting Stego

#

Also - Idk generally what Stego is supposed to struggle against

#

I personally think that it should handle smaller animals better than it handles larger ones and that it should have a better time against smalls than Trike does, while Trike has a better time against the big guys than Stego does, but that's just me

placid reef
#

that isnt utah, bc stego counters utah hard

hollow canyon
#

That's just my opinion and how I'd design it

placid reef
#

but ye know that i look again allo aint really a small so nvm

hollow canyon
#

I honestly think the current Stego would absolutely murder an Allo with it having absolutely no hoping of going against a Stego

#

nah, that's fine, it's smaller than Stego

#

so fair point

#

but I think Allo would get butchered by Stego atm

placid reef
#

before they add allo imo there needs to be a system that makes hit trough trees, rocks, players do no damage, so for ex stego: if it hits smth with the tail, if it kill it instantly nothing would change but if it does kill it, the next player hit by it gets no damage reveived

hollow canyon
#

I think even out in the open without any obstacles Allo would get rolled over

placid reef
#

also with that to bring back utah beeing knocked with trees etc (but not as easy)

hollow canyon
#

It's a large animal - almost 10m long

#

it's not as fast or agile as a Utah

#

I do not see it juking and evading Stego's attack

#

while it can take a hit

#

after taking one it will die to a headshot

#

it's just not a good match up for Allo unless Allo's special ability lets it mess with Stego

placid reef
hollow canyon
#

which I don't think it should really?

placid reef
hollow canyon
#

I think Stego would just not stand next to trees and that would solve it for Allo

spring dagger
#

Speaking of hitting objects, you guys have just given me an idea.

placid reef
#

and before the utah change, utah was just garbage in forests while stego just had a field day whiping them trough trees

hollow canyon
#

Yea atm it's just a thing that additionally would screw Allo over

#

because Stego could just stand in the trees

spring dagger
#

I think if a Stego hits something that is like a tree for example, the thagomisers should blunt over time, which results in a marginal reduction to damage and the only way to sharpen them again is to grind them against particular stones, same thing could also be a thing for Carno charge and such, just as a little management mechanic that sort've fixes the stego tree slap problem thats so prevelant

hollow canyon
#

and Allo would risk getting stuck or slowed down there to which Stego would respond by feeding it a thagomizer to the face

spring dagger
#

Cause you can just park your ass into bushes or trees and swing willy nilly which is stupid

hollow canyon
#

In general my main point is that with how the game works right now I don't think Allo would be at all capable of taking on a Stego

#

it has neither the biteforce nor bleed(which requires a "rework" while we're on that topic)

#

to take down a 6t behemoth

#

even in a pack I don't see it going the way of the Allos

placid reef
#

you still can hit trough trees which is in every way garbage, just make it so if you hit a tree in the path of the attack the attack loses all it damage values, same for any object and players too if they do not get 1shot by it that is

hollow canyon
#

1.3k dmg vs what... 300N biteforce?

spring dagger
#

You guys like the idea of alberto instead of allo?

wise sparrow
placid reef
placid reef
spring dagger
#

Yeah i agree, but one is defo more suitable for taking out stegos in the current meta of things, Allo is too reliant on bleed to really be useful since bleed is an non-factor pretty much

hollow canyon
#

I generally think that in the grand comparison of Carnosaurs vs Tyrannosaurs we should have a thing that distinguishes these groups from one another across the board

spring dagger
#

So that leaves alberto as an ideal tbh

hollow canyon
#

The way I wanted to see it working would be

spring dagger
#

Honestly, and this is going to be a controversial take; i'd love to see tyrannosaurs be glass cannons and carnosaurs to be more tanky but high bleed with low damage potential

#

As defining group traits

hollow canyon
#

I kind of view it differently

#

Tyrannosaurs being more robust should imo be more tanky but

#

I'd just introduce an additional mechanic to the game

#

to make it so that hunting specific animals makes more sense for specific predators

#

it would be an armour mechanic

#

think of like locational damage

#

that can be changed for certain species

placid reef
hollow canyon
#

So let's say that we have an Allo and Alberto - if they were to bite a Para they would deal a sort of similar damage to it with Allo also applying a greater bleed

#

but if they were to bite a Dibble

#

or an Anky

#

Allo would deal next to nothing to them

#

(unless it bites the soft parts) while Alberto would deal normal damage

placid reef
hollow canyon
#

it's not so much diets, it's just that when you bite specific bodyparts of animals you deal little damage to them unless you have a crushing bite

#

so e.g. the things like Deinosuchus, T.rex or Alberto

#

would put out a lot of damage still against armoured things

#

predators like Allo would not

#

the armour of those animals would still work

placid reef
#

i mean, like giga, spino, anky, maggy are the only ones that actually have armoured models and minmi

hollow canyon
#

When I say armoured

#

I don't mean their bodies being armoured

wise sparrow
#

Fat can be a good armor

hollow canyon
#

e.g. Trike's head could be borderline untouchable to a Giga

#

meanwhile Rex would still deal some damage to it

placid reef
#

a ceratopsian head in general should be basically untouchable

hollow canyon
#

not full of course

#

but it would deal some

placid reef
#

so you meant like heavily built animals vs ones that arent? like how in jw:e they categorize stuff like ceratopsians and anky as heavy/armoured herbis while para etc are just large

hollow canyon
#

not even the animals, but even just the bodyparts

#

this isn't that good of an example since in the game they aren't that realistic

#

but irl Rex had a pretty armoured head

#

to my knowledge some of the carchs did too to a certain extent

placid reef
#

they do have body specific hitboxes so that could work... well not these ones, these are ass right now

hollow canyon
#

so for example if Rex and Giga were biting each others heads

#

Rex would just dumpster Giga

spring dagger
#

Giga had armoured scutes on it's neck and head

hollow canyon
#

but if Giga could pull of an ambush

spring dagger
#

And osteoderms on its back

hollow canyon
#

then it would have the upper hand

#

I know that models aren't really designed around my idea

spring dagger
#

Thats why im saying i'd prefer for tyrannosaurids to be less tanky and more glass cannony

hollow canyon
#

but you get what I'm trying to say I hope

placid reef
spring dagger
#

Whilst giga is a hyper tank that puts out bleed but doesn't really do damage

placid reef
#

i mean, rex is a fucking tank, it couldnt run for fuck sake lol

hollow canyon
#

Well neither Rex nor Giga could really "run" per se

spring dagger
#

I mean it was predominantly a scavenger yeah but it would have an edge over giga purely because of it being a brawler with super high damage

hollow canyon
#

they did walk pretty fast though

placid reef
#

ye they had killer powerwalks, literally

hollow canyon
placid reef
spring dagger
#

Horner?

placid reef
#

Jack Horner, the person who created this rex scavanger bs

spring dagger
#

O

hollow canyon
#

he was a consultant on JP

spring dagger
#

I dont really read the papers on rex tbh, i mostly read stuff on spinosaurids and abelisaurids

hollow canyon
#

In general we do have some evidence of T.rex actively going after living prey items(a bitten Edmontosaurus tail that healed up afterwards)

placid reef
spring dagger
#

since they're the most interesting to me imo

hollow canyon
#

I don't want to discuss mr. Horner and his achievements tbh, let's drop this topic

spring dagger
#

I just assumed given it's weight and size it most likely would've scavenged bigger kills or something, had no idea it was an actual theory, im not a elite dino fan

hollow canyon
placid reef
hollow canyon
#

It's a possibility ^

spring dagger
#

Is flesh grazing still a thing for charcodontosaurids?

hollow canyon
#

I've heard there was also some other animal that got bitten and lived to tell the tale

hollow canyon
placid reef
hollow canyon
#

So for flesh grazing

placid reef
#

or just another edmo

hollow canyon
#

you'd have to walk up to a sauropod and chomp it tearing off its flesh

#

that's risky and you don't get that much meat from it

#

There are multiple speculations about how and what Carchs hunted/scavenged

#

A lot of animals in their habitats were not as dangerous as the largest, adult titanosaurs

#

and if they were to wear down and kill a titanosaur that would probably honestly be a safer way of going about getting food than trying to nip it to get a bit of flesh every now and then

#

not saying flesh grazing wasn't a thing - it may have been

#

but we simple don't know, these are just hypotheses

#

(and on that note - both T.rex and Giga just got larger)

alpine plover
#

Yes pls buff body fractures

hollow canyon
#

So does anyone care to clarify what they actually do right now?

#

Body fractures that is

placid reef
#

... and ye, thats about it...

hollow canyon
#

Yea so apparently it doubles the stamina usage based on what I've been told

#

and honestly that doesn't sound that bad

#

I could maybe suggest to try to triple that?

placid reef
#

you can barely even see a dif

#

there have been people who seriously thought it did nothing lol

hollow canyon
#

then that would suggest that it doesn't double it

#

I mean if you go from having what is it on Utah? 80 seconds of runtime

#

and go down to 40

#

that seems like a big change

placid reef
#

i think its like a 30% increase or smth like that

hollow canyon
#

That would be absolutely awful

#

but from what I found out it should be 100% increase

#

maybe it's just bugged?

placid reef
#

it def should

hollow canyon
#

I wonder if anyone tested this

placid reef
hollow canyon
#

I could maybe test it if the game wasn't so repulsive to me

alpine plover
#

Getting on the isle for more than 30 minutes already sounds like a chore tbh

barren oracle
#

Utahs are cruel

molten heart
#

@half girder dude pachy is actually busted right now. Their headbutt is too powerful as it is.

half girder
#

im saying after the nerf.. people today man..

#

ofc team utah n carno main xs me

flat rampart
#

I’m having issues with spawning in

#

I was sitting there for 15 minutes and then I just gave up cause it doesn’t load chunks

sinful cove
#

rng fracture TI_Scream

versed rune
#

@sinful cove isnt pachy rng rn tho

#

cuz it sure seems like it

sinful cove
#

no pachy is just weird

#

its just extraordinarily bad hitboxes or something

versed rune
#

so is what you're saying that pachy has guaranteed fractures if it hits a specific area???

sinful cove
#

hitting somebodys leg and the game is like "yeah no we'll give you a useless body fracture instead"

versed rune
#

it deserves it cuz its pachy

sinful cove
#

fracture is just fracture rn i dont think there's rng to it

versed rune
#

i just assumed there was

#

i dont think fractures should be exclusive to pachy tho

#

everything else should just not deal them often

sinful cove
#

might be because body fracture is sometimes easy to not even notice lol

#

i hope deino gets fracture in the future

versed rune
#

what does body fracture even do rn

#

other than make the fractured animal feel a bit nervous

sinful cove
#

i think it makes stam drain faster or something useles

versed rune
#

but it barely goes down

sinful cove
#

not to a noticable degree

versed rune
#

and tbh that shouldnt even be a thing

#

it should inhibit combat ability not your trying to escape a rabid pachy main ability

sinful cove
#

i think body frac should knock the wind out of you and put a cap on your stam bar depending on the fracture severity, might actually make people worry about it a bit more

half girder
#

pachy is so weird it feels like rng but isnt

versed rune
#

i dont think it should touch stam tbh, bleed already does that

#

wasnt it originally a mobility nerf

#

that'd make the most sense

sinful cove
#

though when your body gets crippled, especially your torso, it definitely affects stam due to difficulty in brething

half girder
#

fracture on carno is so broken

sinful cove
#

so idk what else it would make sense to do

half girder
#

its so easy to kill something you charged

sinful cove
#

idk about giving carno fracture back but i do with it would yeet smalls some more when it hit them

#

maybe it can swing its head up at the right time and just chuck a raptor 40 feet

versed rune
#

isnt that counterproductive tho

half girder
#

and teno does not need fracture lol

versed rune
#

like dont get me wrong itd be funny

sinful cove
#

tenonto already utilizes cc

versed rune
#

but if you send a raptor flying doesnt that give it more time to get up and escape

sinful cove
#

idk theyd probably get fall damage

#

which indirectly, means they get a broken leg lmao

half girder
#

if u r paying attention no

versed rune
#

i dont think that has anything to do with it, cuz if its further away its further away

sinful cove
#

i guess

half girder
#

i killed two utahs with one charge, they both were separate but i killed em in time

#

i have a vid i think

sinful cove
#

though if it involved the carno player executing the charge in a specific way it could have its uses and not be an always thing

versed rune
#

i mean utah takes way too long to stand up after a knockdown anyway

dusky surge
#

yea nah, fracture chance isn't a thing no more

#

it's all about that fracture damage

versed rune
#

i just assumed it was still a thing cuz of how pachy functions

dusky surge
#

it's just because pachy sports 4 different headbutt variants with different damages

#

standing tap, running tap, standing charge, running charge

versed rune
#

why do the devs never tell us how the playables function

dusky surge
#

i mean

versed rune
#

because i had zero clue that was a thing

dusky surge
#

you can test this

versed rune
#

i assumed it was longer charge=more damage but didnt know there was a difference in speed

dusky surge
#

and i think fracture damage is tied to base damage

versed rune
#

even so it feels like we get little to no information on how new mechanics work

dusky surge
#

so a ton of running charged attacks would fracture a big thing quicker

#

also each limb i believe has a fracture health pool

#

so once that hits idk, some value, I'm assuming zero, bone breaky

versed rune
#

is it the same for all dinosaurs? or do some have more durability than others

#

like for limb durability

dusky surge
#

i believe a utah has far less durability than a carno, for instance

half girder
dusky surge
#

and a pachy... i dont even think you can head fracture a pachy

#

i think pachy is immune to head fractures

versed rune
#

never been head frac'd as a pachy no

half girder
#

there see

dusky surge
#

pachy i think has immunity to it

versed rune
#

my god utah does NOT get up quick enough at all

dusky surge
#

but yes, i think certain animals have different levels of limb resilience depending on base HP and some other factors

versed rune
#

it just. sits there

#

i dont think ive ever seen a teno get a leg fracture

half girder
#

same!

dusky surge
#

MT carno charge, for instance, I believe did an absurd fracture damage that could essentially instantly body fracture anything it hit, which is why it was removed

versed rune
#

but tbh thats prob not cuz of absurd leg resistance, id assume shitboxes since its a quadroped

dusky surge
versed rune
#

back then any sort of fracture disabled your sprint ability too

dusky surge
#

yep

#

which made it far worse

#

im not objected to a new fracture attack on carno as long as it's tuned the fuck down from MT (which body fractures already are)

versed rune
#

yea thats why i think body/head fracture would be most optimal for it

dusky surge
#

small game hunter ambush works much better if the ambush disables the quick prey

versed rune
#

cuz carno's charge feels... naked

#

small game hunter is a memeTI_Trollge

dusky surge
#

i think its cool. I like destroying the little bastards with the fast boy

versed rune
#

oh no i agree its enjoyable af but the phrase itself is so overused 💀

dusky surge
#

fair

#

also i feel that teno should at some point be inclined to use an attack that isn't the tail slam

#

just because the bastard will not stop

versed rune
#

i thought of replacing the current tail slam like one in the concept art

#

where teno does a 180 and slams forwards, turning its body in the opposite direction

#

which in turn would make comboing into a kick/claw more optimal

#

but on the flipside thatd just that'd just incentivize teno running up and merc'ing shit offensively with tail slam

#

instead of being defensive

dusky surge
#

i really do prefer teno's more powerful moves to be defensively oriented

#

having hyper-hostile teno with a high-damage fracturing tail it can use offensively would suck

#

the tails greatest weakness is that it really only can be used defensively or against outright afk/resting players

versed rune
#

100% agree

#

i was gonna suggest my tail slam idea but then i thought of exactly that

#

so i was like. nah

#

but the greatest part about teno is its huge arsenal of attacks, makes it pretty fun to play. just goes to show how fun at least 3 attacks can be

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto just needs to have some of its kit repurposed - kick needs to get some love, tailslam needs to get a slight rework

versed rune
#

im tired of spam biting as carno TI_Trollge

hollow canyon
#

I think Nova spoke about this being a nice possibility if they could implement it

versed rune
#

also. my friend found out today that utah apparently gets clean oneshot by a teno tail slam headshot

hollow canyon
#

Yea they definitely do

#

cause Tenonto's damage is absurd

#

Even a bodyshot takes out 80% of Utah's health, it's only natural that a headshot kills it

#

but that's down to Tenonto having way too much firepower

versed rune
#

i mean im gonna be honest against a carno teno is fine

hollow canyon
#

That's putting it mildly

versed rune
#

cuz last time we nerfed it. well. it got destroyed

hollow canyon
#

it's far more than "fine" against Carno

hollow canyon
#

It's really weird how people think of all the playables like they are constant

versed rune
#

its carno that needs love. like i agree carno should be the glass cannon of the 5 mid tier carnies so im cool w/ teno doing good damage to it, but rn carno's kit is lackluster

hollow canyon
#

you can't compare Tenonto before the buff with Carno then and imply that it would deal the same way with the current Carno

#

just to put something out - Tenonto currently facetanks Carno

#

with its clawswipe

#

If the two just stand one in front of the other and start whacking each other Tenonto wins

versed rune
#

like right now teno can kinda just go "tap A or D lole" and avoid carno's charge. which is fine but then carno cant really do much against it otherwise. hence the need for the almighty headswing attack. (and a bite damage buff back to 200)

hollow canyon
#

I don't think Carno needs a bite damage buff

versed rune
hollow canyon
#

I think it's ok at 175N

#

It shouldn't be an animal that deals a lot of damage, it's meant to go after small prey up to the size of Tenonto

#

I welcome the fact that it takes longer to kill a Tenonto, that's a good thing in my book

dusky surge
hollow canyon
#

what is a bad thing is the fact that Tenonto gets to combo it from 100 to 0 upon landing a single CC

#

and even if it's not in the right position to do that and Carno is lucky

versed rune
#

there's nothing that can be done about that unless teno's tail slam is overhauled

hollow canyon
#

the fight is most of the time just over the moment Carno gets hit with any CC

#

There absolutely is and I've gone over what can be done about that multiple times

#

even half a year ago

#

You buff the damage of the kick and take the stun away from it while decreasing both the damage and stamina cost of the tailslam

versed rune
#

i'm... not sure how i feel about that

hollow canyon
#

Easy fix right there, the fight between these two lasts longer, Tenonto doesn't run out of stamina within a blink of an eye and has to actually utilise the kick to deal the real damage

spare badger
#

I think that tenos kick should stun and the slam should fracture
Kick is much harder to land and that skill should be rewarded

hollow canyon
#

^ that's a possibility too

dusky surge
#

its EXTREMELY hard to land the kick though

spare badger
#

Although it would need a bit of a buff first

dusky surge
#

it's comically difficult

versed rune
#

i agree more with what dino said

hollow canyon
#

well you'd be landing it on a stunned target

versed rune
#

although tbf

#

whenever i play teno i almost never tail slam til i land the kick

#

thats just me tho i play suuuuppper conservative as tenonto

hollow canyon
#

I don't

versed rune
#

cuz if u run outta stam

#

rip 💀

dusky surge
#

true, the tail slam has the less forgiving animation and more stam drain

spare badger
#

You can just use tail slam but it wouldnt stun, but fracture
So slam is more useful as a punish

hollow canyon
#

I use pretty much just the tail slam

#

the kick I only use when I'm hunting someone

versed rune
#

i use the kick very defensively

spare badger
#

I prefer to spin around and keep em behind me
I only use kick if there's more than one carno so I can keep moving

hollow canyon
#

I use it completely offensively, it's a worthless garbage defensively imo

#

it has a poor range and is much harder to land

versed rune
#

my strat against carnos as a teno is trot away from them, keep moving constantly, kick when they get too close, get to trees as soon as possible

spare badger
#

The hitbox isnt the greatest

hollow canyon
#

its only advantage is the fact that you can use it while moving

#

so you can just run up to someone, and do a roundhouse kick

#

if that lands - spam the tailslams on the opponent's head and they typically don't get up after that

versed rune
#

i do the roundhouse kicks too. its great offensively but its also very underrated on defense

hollow canyon
#

In general I'm not a good Tenonto, ngl

#

I lack the patience and spatial awareness for this animal

dusky surge
#

i mean, it is a brawler, it kinda needs to wait for the opponent to make the first move

versed rune
#

my god as tenonto you have to be SO focused on your opponents movement

spare badger
#

I love teno
Although I haven't played too much since U4

hollow canyon
#

I don't wait for my opponents to make the first move

dusky surge
#

especially since its primary foe is carno

dusky surge
hollow canyon
#

and yet despite me playing like a moron I still win pretty much every fight with it

spare badger
#

Utah's are the most fun to fight

dusky surge
#

tbf

hollow canyon
#

hell I even won 1vx

#

as a Tenonto on this patch

dusky surge
#

i just think most of the Isle plays fucking stupid because you can win tons of fights ez that everyone in this discord would say is impossible

hollow canyon
#

In most cases the Carnos just left me after they got hit

dusky surge
#

the amount of pachys i've soloed as a utah is insane

versed rune
#

typically speaking when i fight tenos, i win against the ones that play aggressive, and the ones that play defense typically give me a run for my money

#

aggro tenos are the easiest shit to kill as a carno

dusky surge
#

i've yet to even die to a pachy

versed rune
#

especially when they trot after u

spare badger
#

The only times I lose when I'm teno is if I'm severely outnumbered, like a 1v3

versed rune
#

just save ur stam and make them think youll run outta stam soon™️

dusky surge
#

i mean, tenos have amazing trot speed, but their sprint eats their valuable stam like crazy

hollow canyon
spare badger
#

never sprint as teno, it ain't worth it

hollow canyon
#

I do that too sometimes

dusky surge
#

i actually love teno's trot speed

hollow canyon
#

well quite a bit

dusky surge
#

just fucking power walk everywhere

hollow canyon
#

but yea most of the time it's trotting

spare badger
versed rune
#

teno's trot is goals

dusky surge
#

honestly, teno's swim speed and trot speed are two of the things i love most about the animal

hollow canyon
#

when I've played Tenonto quite a lot on this patch most carnivores didn't want to fight me at all

versed rune
#

carno needs a faster trot

hollow canyon
#

so I had to trot after them and run at them for some time

versed rune
#

why as a sprinter am i forced to run everywhere

hollow canyon
#

before they finally decided that they will fight me

dusky surge
#

what's that, a carno swarm? allow me to calmly trot into this water and swim a mile away from you land plebians, tally ho fuckers

hollow canyon
#

Carno needs either a better turn rate or a better acceleration

#

or idk something, this dinosaur is just a complete mess design-wise

spare badger
versed rune
dusky surge
hollow canyon
#

We have the fastest animal with the worst turn rate and the worst acceleration in the game and one of the worst stamina pools - what should be its special ability? Right, let's make it "charge" which requires it to reach full speed, makes it run even faster and makes it turn even worse, all at the enormous cost to stamina.

dusky surge
#

you're better off sticking south-east, it's much better for you

hollow canyon
#

How does the charge make sense for Carno?

versed rune
#

because its cool

dusky surge
#

it is cool

#

he does have a point

hollow canyon
#

Its concept is cool, the fact that it makes you turn worse and run faster is just idiotic

versed rune
#

but this is why i have an issue with the small game hunter thing

#

the charge isnt optimal for "small game"

#

if you hit them with it??? great!!!

dusky surge
hollow canyon
#

Why do I want to run "even faster" as a Carno? I'm already the fastest goddamn thing in the game

#

and I already turn worse than any other animal

versed rune
#

but charge is much more optimal for things in the size range of teno/magy/diablo/maia

hollow canyon
#

Well then that ability clearly doesn't belong on Carno

versed rune
#

hence why the new carno meme should be "mid game hunter" in my humble opinion

dusky surge
#

what DOES belong on carno

hollow canyon
#

idk, remove it and give it a gore attack where it just swings its head and horns at its enemy or something

hollow canyon
dusky surge
#

easily could be an alt-attack

versed rune
#

why remove charge???

hollow canyon
#

I wouldn't mind that

dusky surge
#

idk he doesn't like it

hollow canyon
versed rune
#

if carno has any attack removed it should be alt bite

dusky surge
#

i like the charge personally

hollow canyon
#

It's not that I don't like it, I like the idea of it charging at people

versed rune
#

and replaced with headswing

dusky surge
#

its fun

hollow canyon
#

I take an issue with it requiring Carno to reach full speed

versed rune
#

well that doesnt require removing charge

hollow canyon
#

If charge worked the way Pachy's ram does then that could maybe be fine

versed rune
#

charge is a pain in the ass to activate

hollow canyon
dusky surge
#

also the charge has provided some of my greatest moments playing this game, like hearing my friend fucking scream as he's ambushed by the perfect carno charge as utahraptor and died instantly

hollow canyon
#

atm it's a complete nonsense

dusky surge
#

like he actively slammed his fucking keyboard it was hysterical

versed rune
#

carno is a sniper and its awesome

#

stealthy carno play is so much fun

hollow canyon
#

This ability is borderline worthless against anyone with at least one working brain lobe

versed rune
#

mainly cuz most carnos arent stealthy

versed rune
#

i remember a few weeks ago i took out like 4 tenos as a solo carno

dusky surge
#

i have nothing but respect for those carnos

hollow canyon
#

it's got nothing to do with being stealthy, Carno's a loud animal that's easily noticeable, it's the antithesis of an ambush hunter and its ability doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for an ambush hunter

dusky surge
#

it was the perfect crime