balance-feedback-discussion

[frosty heron]

Whats the problem with Utah now, its alright Lol

[half girder]

literally alt bite into them lol, they never see it

[grave veldt]

utah itself is fine

[half girder]

yes

[sinful cove]

Utah goes danny phantom and phases through trees

[barren oracle]

It’s ability to kill anything because of bleed being ass

[half girder]

oh god another one who thinks utah is fine rn

[barren oracle]

Lul you can phase through walls if you have a larger friend, good for a bit of trolling

[frosty heron]

Using enviroment makes people hug trees all the time to get rid of Utahs easily instead of using buck which is really effective

[half girder]

omlll

[barren oracle]

Utah is fine, bleed is not

[half girder]

do u play pachy??

[grave veldt]

why would u remove the environmental factor?

[sinful cove]

I havent had good experiences with buck at all

It breaks 70% of the time

[half girder]

one buck bleeds u out almost half lmao

[sinful cove]

And still gives utah time to apply egregious amounts of bleed

[barren oracle]

Bleed as a mechanic is just a mess

[sinful cove]

Buck randomly cancels out the majority of the time

[frosty heron]

If you buck as Pachy its actually 2/3 pounces to bleed out

[barren oracle]

Especially as steg where it actually matters

[half girder]

since green names think body fracture is good rn i doubt we'll see a buff.. 😦

[barren oracle]

Body fracture is fine if you play it right

[half girder]

naw

[frosty heron]

And its fair considering Pachy instawrecks Utahs if they land either an Alt bite or a headbutt

[sinful cove]

Greens got the wrong opinion

[half girder]

body fracture is uselss

[barren oracle]

It could use a small buff in its effect but as soon as you get one you might aswell just stop fighting because of the risk

If they hit a leg fracture the brutality is awful

[sinful cove]

Body fracture is like “oof my ribs are broken, I’m feeling a wee bit exhausted, oh well”

[frosty heron]

Body Fracture might be useless but Leg fracture in the other hand is damn op

[sinful cove]

May as well not exist

[half girder]

leg fracture is fine considering its hard to hit

[frosty heron]

As it should

[barren oracle]

It really only matters when it stacks with another fracture

[sinful cove]

Yeah its lame

[half girder]

hitboxes do be wonky sometimes but

[barren oracle]

My experience is their fine

[frosty heron]

I got body fractured today and still gave me enought reason to fuck off of the fight and leave the Pachy alone

[half girder]

headbutt a utah in the head and get a body fracture

dankkk

[frosty heron]

Well, headbutt the tail and getting CCed isnt also fair but people dont care about that Lol

[barren oracle]

Skill issue

[frosty heron]

Yep, Skill issue indeed

[half girder]

but yeah, utah is broken rn and im gonna abuse it

[barren oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/chika-dance-skill-issue-gif-21760251

[frosty heron]

Lol, Islecord be like: Utah is bad, the patch afterwards: Broken

[barren oracle]

Have fun ending the careers of stego players

[sinful cove]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-adapt-git-gud-skill-issue-gif-23598192

[grave veldt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/855527844670865438/909662364255780926/simply_a_lack_of_skill.gif

[half girder]

cuz it is LOL

[barren oracle]

The dibble player after ass riding a giga

[sinful cove]

You act like a dino cant go from broken to busted in one patch

[barren oracle]

It can and it’s only because of phase Utah

[half girder]

bleed too

[barren oracle]

Sorry as the Utah mains call it: FaZe UtahZ

[half girder]

thats cringe

[frosty heron]

Utah has always been a rollercoaster with people opinions about its balance and nobody cant negate me that

[sinful cove]

I had it ezpz as a utah before i fell off an invisible cliff and died

[half girder]

it is, but bleed isnt

[half girder]

i mean it kinda is

[sinful cove]

Because it is always getting ruined or overbuffed in patches

[frosty heron]

U2: Broken , U3: Broken , U3,75: Still broken QA: Bad U4: Broken

[barren oracle]

The phasing is a little off but it’s fine

[barren oracle]

.

[frosty heron]

Imo Utah its fine now, its a threat on numbers as it should

[sinful cove]

Yeah its a threat in large numbers but it doesnt even need numbers

[half girder]

phase through rock, no buck animation playing, lag and desync

[barren oracle]

It’s a threat at all times, if you see one of those mfs run to the nearest mud pool

[frosty heron]

Considering the amount of herbie mixpacking on all servers they arent as dangerous sometimes

[sinful cove]

Utah hunting range is supposed to scale with pack size but now utah is back to soloing stegos

[half girder]

and when bleeding wallow bugs out somtimes

[half girder]

true

[barren oracle]

It’s not really mixpacking is it

[frosty heron]

I dont see a Utah capable of that if you can still kill them on dismount lol

[barren oracle]

That’s a carnivore thing that people complain about when they don’t have the social skill to make friends

[sinful cove]

Most mix packs i see include carnos you cant just blame herbis on that cringe shit lol

[half girder]

no. u wait for buck and they cant attack, u play utah lol ??

[barren oracle]

Like bro if your so pissed at my Utah carno pack with friends make another one with your friends

[grave veldt]

also utah pounce detach is aimable so u can safely detach almost every time

[half girder]

cringe

mixpack ewww

[frosty heron]

Play on Teutonic and you can watch the Stego/Teno/Pachy combo kosing everything that isnt an herbie

[sinful cove]

Also like 80% of a server is carnis so who are herbis even suppose dto group with if not other herbi species

[sinful cove]

I dont play there so i aint gonna see that

[barren oracle]

Sorry I’ll just Grow a new Dino to follow the isle rulebook

[sinful cove]

I haven’t seen it on officials

[half girder]

not cringe 👍

[frosty heron]

Well , the population there is 80% herbies instead

[sinful cove]

What is so special about teutonic

[barren oracle]

Srly though why should I put 2 hours into a carno when I already have a Utah I can use instead

[sinful cove]

Is it a rules server

[grave veldt]

i only play official so

[half girder]

i usually see utah stegos, teno pachy, utah carno

[barren oracle]

It’s for isle players with no friends

[frosty heron]

Evrima isnt ruled tho

[sinful cove]

I see some tenonto carno mix packs, deino pachy mix packs and carno utah mix packs

All cringe

[half girder]

mixpacker eww

[grave veldt]

mix packers r so cringe

[half girder]

what server u play on

[barren oracle]

Sorry I’ll just go spend another 3 hours on evrima don’t mind me

Not like I have a job or other games

[sinful cove]

Like as a carni especially you have 0 valid excuse to mix with herbis or other predators because all carnis are populous

[barren oracle]

Having friends seems like a valid reason

If they have a teno and I have a Utah so be it

[sinful cove]

Well whats the problem with playing the same dino with those friends

[barren oracle]

Not like it matters in the end

[barren oracle]

Time mainly

[half girder]

if i play with a friend who is on another dino i usually just stay away from them, let them do their thing and not attack each other

[grave veldt]

Why would u want to play different dinosaurs lol

[barren oracle]

That’s boring though

[half girder]

mixpacker

[sinful cove]

Helping people kill shit in a mix pack is pretty cringe

Bad for balance

[grave veldt]

^

[half girder]

criiinge

[barren oracle]

What do you talk about? The economical social climate

[frosty heron]

But happens , a lot

[sinful cove]

Yeah it happens too much

[half girder]

true, sad to see it

[frosty heron]

Im constantly running into mixpackers on every server , while I just want to pack Hunt as Utah

[barren oracle]

I mean if you don’t like friendships there is always Teutonic

The only time I don’t like mixpacking is when it’s mega mixpacking

[sinful cove]

Ive run in to pachies who broke legs so their negative iq carni friends could hunt easier

[barren oracle]

That’s cringe don’t do that kiddos

[half girder]

yiiikes

[frosty heron]

Not posible if theres a Stego surrounded by Pachys and Tenontos guarding the mud pool so nobody bleeds out

And also dumb Carnos helping them

[barren oracle]

Reasonable, if it matters so much to you move to the nearest mega herd

[half girder]

something should be done about mixpack tbh

[barren oracle]

Nothing can, just players decisions not to waste time

[half girder]

u mean be cringe?

[grave veldt]

R we trying to justify mix packing

[barren oracle]

Unless your like intentionally choosing deferent dinos at the same time just to be a pain in the ass nothing matters

[sinful cove]

1. Rarely ever exists
2. mix packs track and kill people extremely easy due to the mixes in utility which is why people who do it suck cheeks

[barren oracle]

I am

[grave veldt]

wow

that is physically painful to read

[half girder]

judge dont let me ever catch u in game lmao, on the list >:)

[barren oracle]

Like I said unlike most isle players I don’t got the time to switch dinos just to follow a rule book

[half girder]

jking

[barren oracle]

Unless I’m growing with a friend I don’t need to switch server and Dino just to play fair

[frosty heron]

The only thing I would do with Utah its not to the Utah itself but adding more wallow points on the map and also bring back wallow areas back to river shores

[barren oracle]

And stop it phasing and buffing pachys blood pool

[frosty heron]

Pachy blood pool its fine, you only die in 1 pounce if you dont buck

[barren oracle]

I got a funny clip somewhere of me phasing into one of the human bases as a Utah

Then jumping the first person I saw which was a ptera exploring the map

Fun fact, objects in the isle are like one way mirrors

[grave veldt]

pachy's blood pool is fine

[barren oracle]

You can’t go in them but you can go out of them

[grave veldt]

just need a way to stop bleeding

[frosty heron]

Yep

[barren oracle]

Which doesn’t exist

[grave veldt]

[half girder]

Sad..

[grave veldt]

u can sit but

that wont stop it

[barren oracle]

The isle Utah experience

[grave veldt]

and wallowing only works if ur next to a mudpool at all times

[barren oracle]

Anyway I shall be off I got chemistry mocks on Tuesday and I really do t feel like messing those up

[grave veldt]

what if after the blood pool reaches 0 it start subtracting from your hp instead of instantly dying?

[dusky surge]

resting makes the rate at which you bleed extremely slow

move slower to bleed less basically

its one of the rare times walking instead of trotting is genuinely useful

[barren oracle]

Wave pool be ashamed of me, I mixpack if I don’t want to grow a new Dino to play with a friend for half an hour

[dusky surge]

if you sprint everywhere while bleeding, you are infinitely more likely to die to said bleed

you want to take things slow, and if you've killed or escaped the threat, rest the bleed off asap

[frosty heron]

Ive seen Stegos that use Z walk to bleed less and succesfully tanking like 7 pounces (with buck)

[dusky surge]

yea exactly

[frosty heron]

And survive

[grave veldt]

stego also got a blood pool increase which helps as well (from U3)

[dusky surge]

people treat wallowing as the only counter to bleed. Wallowing is great, yes, but it doesn't stop you from bleeding as most people believe and isn't bleeds only counter

[frosty heron]

Yeah , the scenario where you die to Utahs as full Stego still pretty rare

[barren oracle]

Wavepool are you ashamed of me?

My crime is unforgivable as I broke the isle rulebook

[half girder]

cringe

[barren oracle]

Very useful though, would be nice to have some more mud pools

I’ve been ghosted by green style master wavepool

Truely he must be ashamed of me

[half girder]

died to a carno that didnt even hit my physical hitbox

[grave veldt]

Wait

Which server

[half girder]

na3

[grave veldt]

Yikes

That

May have been me

[half girder]

yeah man u hit my friend without looking at him lol

[grave veldt]

Was your friend with a smaller juvi pachy

[half girder]

no.

[grave veldt]

Ok nvm

Someone else then

Only pachy I’ve charged was one by a forest with a smaller juvi

[half girder]

if only buck worked for me as it does these carnos..

[grave veldt]

Buck is finicky which sucks especially in the heat of the moment

[half girder]

gonna try to delete files

[alpine plover]

Did some testing and it's kinda on the stego's fault really

The dismount is sometimes bugged and will plop you in 1-2 meters

Oftentimes in the range for a Stego to immediately kill a Utah after the delay in the dismount

Angling makes this even easier

Do this and you can thwart off almost every Utah encounter except for 1% of players

Also, Pachy just destroys Utah

Play it right and even a good player will have little to none chance at solo'ing it
The alt stun, the headbutt just requires timing and aiming on the player's part

A good Utah player can never overcome a good Pachy player currently

Carno doesn't go down in one full pounce either

It also has the speed to always just disengage

So a Utah isn't solo'ing anything unless the player's let it

This isn't hyper analyzed either

Just spent 15 minutes learning about it
Though to be fair there is no sandbox rn

[dusky surge]

i have soloed tons of pachys as utah, but in their defence, i dont think they knew how to play pachy

[alpine plover]

Hence "A good Utah can never overcome a good Pachy"

The Pachy's getting solo'd likely don't play it right

Or treat it like a Teno

If anything Pachy is overtuned

You can combo the headbutt into two hits

Making solo'ing Carno/Teno easily viable

Unless you disengage as Carno, or swerve and time as Teno

[placid reef]

also, you still need to escape the threat to do that, people just say wallow like its your ace in the hole

[frosty heron]

I almost soloed a Carno and I can say the same, the dude didnt know how to play it

[barren oracle]

Wasn’t that their plan

[alpine plover]

It was

I’m against panic nerfs or adjustments until issues are properly analyzed

Utah is perfectly viable (even though I disagree on how it achieves this)

[sudden reef]

Utah is terrible rn i got body shot by a carno and nearly killed me.

[frosty heron]

You sure it was a bite and not a charge?

He might charged you

[placid reef]

charge does around 300 dmg which looks to be how much you took

also utah has 450 hp, ofc its not gonna tank any hit

[frosty heron]

How much the current alt bite dmg is?

[sudden reef]

175

[placid reef]

a bit higher than main or equal i think

[frosty heron]

That normal bite

[sudden reef]

i was standing infront of it

[placid reef]

wait carno or utah?

[frosty heron]

Carno

[sudden reef]

personally i prefer the old stats where everything was able to kill each other

[placid reef]

in that case around main, but doesnt change the amount of hits needed to kill utah

[placid reef]

everything is able to kill each other more or less rn, except the 2 apexes

[frosty heron]

Fair, well it might counted as headshot which is 350 dmg on Utah @sudden reef

[sudden reef]

most likely

[frosty heron]

Althought you should be lower in the screenshot but you might healed off a bit of dmg

[sudden reef]

i took that straight away

[wise sparrow]

@peak pumice First of all, you cant really do that because its a private server, they can run it how they want. second of all just play on official or no free growth servers.

[barren oracle]

Bro what-

Mans complaining about a balanced enough creature bullying him on a free growth server?

[wise sparrow]

Its frosty what did you expect?

hes the same one who wanted early qa teno nerfed again

back when it did no damage

[slim dragon]

Frosty always has interesting takes on balance

[flat apex]

Have DEV already said something about no AI spawns ? Are they looking into it ?

[alpine plover]

It's literally the other way around but okay lol

Lmao

How so?

Given no bugs happen, there is nothing a Utah player can do at the best of their ability to overcome a proper utilized Pachy

It's not rare to realize most people aren't too good at this game, some people don't even realize it. Rather than taking the time to understand the mechanics
The missing sandbox does inhibit opportunities to practice though

Which is why wave can confidently say he can solo Pachy's mostly

But balance should be done around what the playables can do optimally, and given their best circumstances
If the ceiling is too low or high, then it's in need of a tweak
If how it achieves the success of this ceiling is unsatisfactory or niche, then you can fiddle or adjust the mechanics themselves.

[quaint merlin]

pounce mechanic

[alpine plover]

You do realise that utahs entire gameplay is based around its brittleness right? Dodging, baiting, and never staying too long in the grasp of the enemy. Good utahs easily kill even good Pachys because they know how to do this, and don't have to even rely on purely damage to win the fight this way, while the best a Pachy can be prepared for the fight is knowing how to aim and not fall for baits. But eventually one of those baits is going to be a bite, or maybe even a pounce, that does land on the Pachy, the latter being basically a gg, especially with the lack of wallow spots. So don't try and be clever telling me that you should base balance around an animals potential and mechanics when you don't even seem to know how utahs hunt

I have been the Utah and the Pachy in these situations and played my fair share of free grow death match, I know how this shit works

@alpine plover

knowing how to move is what differentiates a good utah from a bad utah, which is why bad utahs usually fail against even bad pachys, and good utahs usually win against good pachys

Yeah, though that's until you bring up the fact that to effectively bleed out a pachy takes a number of bites, and a long enough pounce that isn't possible without bucking. Also not taking into the fact that Utah requires more movement to employ it's strengths, so you're disregarding Pachy has inherent terrain advantage. Disregarding that pounce isn't safe, and you can be headbutted out of a dismount. Disregarding you can double hit combo a headbutt, so it significantly reduce the punish time for a Pachy. From two optimal players, the matchup is 100-0 is Pachy's ballpark. How a Pachy loses this matchup is 100% it's own fault for allowing the Utah to deploy it's abilities. If anything it's too overtuned when factoring in the forgiving as hell alt stun. On paper, sure Utah has more stam, but the Utah is gonna have to move more, use the pounce briefly more, and sure may regen stam quick. But Hp it's a different story if the Pachy just decides to trade smaller blows with the alt

It is completely in the Pachy's ballpark

its also worth noting that while a pachy can barely kill a utah with a fully charged ram and 2 alt swings to the head, utah can one shot cycle a pachy, where you got the idea that bucking saves it i have no clue, considering how terrible pachys buck speed is, 3 seconds of pounce is more than enough, and you can get up to 8 even with bucking i'd say. If a pachy hits you as you dismount then its not bucking, because that would require heavy spam of your attacks or the predictions of a god, even then you can't one cycle it, it still has enough to bleed out. I already disproved the 100% pachys fault earlier so i dont need to now. As for stamina it barely matters, even with pounce, 3 bites or 3 seconds of pounce has a pachy immediately dead if it wants to chase, and if it wants to be still then that just gives the utah more opportunities, which a good player can easily take

not to mention the more it bleeds the less stamina it gets back, and the more it loses iirc, a mud pool is useless because you cant alt attack in mud so you're just gonna get bodied, and even if a ram the utah the chance of getting a leg fracture is so low that out of the 50+ fucking utahs ive rammed since the changes none of them have leg broke

thats probably an understatement actually, considering ive rammed a hell of a lot, mostly in the side because who tf runs at a pachy

Where'd you get the idea that Pachy's buck is horrible? It's more than suited for draining a Utah in seconds, and Utah won't dish out the bleed from that period to bring it down. While also stating that Utah is brittle but Pachy can barely kill it despite it's damage pool enough to put it out of commission in a fight, or send it scampering with a fracture. A body fracture completely negates prolonged fighting, the double headbutt combo literally instakills a Utah on the spot. Pachy has the agility, turn radius, and stam to keep up and effectively counter a Utah. Again, "timing of a God" just requires practice. We're talking about the optimally utilized Pachy here. Also why would you ever chase a Utah to begin with? It's faster than you lol. You sprint with Pachy only if it moves in on the offensive. You're pretty much asking for the bleed you allowed the Utah to get on you to do it's job. Being stationery with Pachy is essentially playing it like a Teno, which you shouldn't do. But say if you did. You can still get away with a decent margin of success by trotting and timing the alt stun. Make it a slug fest of trades. Pachy overcomes that as well.

You might be mistaken that bucking is bugged rn

Sometimes the ability is canned and it doesn't work, or it doesn't buck any stam, or not enough stam off

[frosty heron]

Im sorry but @alpine plover is right, ive been fighting pachys today for hours as Utah and Pachys have everything in their favour the fight if they are in numbers, and considering the game performance in the area where I fought, its just imposible to proper bait & bite strat aswell to go for pounces

[alpine plover]

no its pretty bad you can spend more than enough time on there to bleed out a pachy

Desync is also favour of defensive herbies atm

So the netcode supporting them is salt added to the wound

[frosty heron]

Also worth to mention that Pachys CC you even if they hit your tail which is kinda dumb

[alpine plover]

ah yes, balance based on desync

Not an intended one for sure

wait if desync is supporting them and utah still does a good job then you're just invalidating your point further

How so?

im bored of this but i know someone who likes to talk about this shit so @hot lintel

Desync is just an issue effecting the game's balance in an unintended way

[alpine plover]

if desync favours herbivores
and the carnivore does a good job still
it invalidates your point further

Not really

Prior to early qa, desync favoured speedy Carno's

https://tenor.com/view/bruh-bro-bruh-bro-bruh-moment-gif-23701378

Doesn't automatically supported them not being busted as they were

[frosty heron]

The only carnivore I see getting favored by desync is Carno tbh

[alpine plover]

So essentially "desync supports carnos" therefore "carno isn't broken because of desync"

not a valid argument for dismantling a point

it supports pretty much everything i said in some small way does it not?

especially since all of the fight for utah is server side

and it still wins

like

L

It's an outlier, not integral or related to the points prior

take

how? are you high?

if pachys still struggle with good utahs desync fights despite being in the defenders position, how is that not related to anything in at least a little way, it slightly supports everything ive been saying

Look at it this way
If a Carno struggles with good Utahs and are being supported by desync as well. It doesn't necessitate that intended mechanics should be balanced or support any tweaks to buff the Carno

Assuming if the game plays optimally. The skill range topic is also one to touch upon, as the spectrum of player skill varies from scenario to scenario
Which is why I take the stance of if both players were to assume playing at the optimal level. To remove the anecdotes scenarios in the argument. I and wave can say all day we can solo Pachy's. Though it isn't a compelling argument in terms of balance to draw towards.

Neither is Pachy players struggling against Utah's. So we assume what sort of strats or avenues the optimal players is available to them each. 1-1 optimal Pachy stomps. Pachy has all the tools to keep up with a Utah, has the agility and hp pool to forgive it. Everything Pachy can do can prevent Utah from employing any of it's abilities. In this matchup, optimally. The only thing a Utah could do is to ambush a lucky pounce in while the Pachy unluckily doesn't have the stam to do a proper buck. From there to play keep away with the bleed.

[half girder]

buck doesn’t take stam

i’ve heard

[alpine plover]

Yeah

It's bugged

[half girder]

ahhhh

that’s why this carno i pounced 50 times kept spamming it

i see ty for that

hope they fix it soon but lower the stam cost for the person bucking

losing a 1v1 to a pachy as utah is impossible tbh, only if desync messes with u tho, then you’re in trouble

[frosty heron]

1v1 is not a realistic scenario most of the time Pachys are in groups and they get very strong because they can combo you with CCs and cover each other in case you succesfully pounce

[alpine plover]

I assume you mean losing to a Utah right?

Pachy can insta kill combo with two headbutts timed well

[alpine plover]

Not to mention that Pachy's can hit you while you're dismounting

Either mid air or in the dismount delay

[frosty heron]

Yeah that also could happen, I still find very hard to engage Pachys, those bad ones are killable but average Pachy player that knows how to combo and use alt bite its a pain to fight

[alpine plover]

Only thing Utah has going for it is it's a little bit faster

Utah needs a couple bites in for the bleed to work

A pounce that can be negated with buck

While a Pachy circumvents these by the Headbutt being way more forgiving then Pounce, a Utah can't do nothing when it lands
And a Pachy can immediately follow up with another headbutt to instantly kill it

[frosty heron]

Good luck landing bites on a defensive Pachy who is using alt attacks

[alpine plover]

The alt is just icing on the cake

Easy to use, low stam, and a stun

wide aoe for a small as well

The only way Utah can win this matchup is by poor timing and grasp of mechanics on the Pachy's players end(excluding the bucking bug)

Which ultimately happens

Asking for adjustments to an already on average a skewed matchup doesn't bode well for me

[frosty heron]

Ive also found that if a Pachy miss a charged headbutt while youre running away from him, if you turn back to pounce it while hes recovering he has time to hit you mid air

For a safe pounce you need teamwork with another Utah

[alpine plover]

Yeah, the headbutt often takes priority over other attacks ]

Looking at it on paper

Pachy is quite a pampered playable if anything

[sinful cove]

Return of the king

[hallow spire]

[wise sparrow]

Imo early qa was the most balanced its ever been

[half girder]

lmaooo

[spare badger]

Plays on a insta grow server
Gets mad that there is insta grow for not just them

[sinful cove]

"omgGGG i cant believe people pick apexes on a free grow server!!!1!! I won't play on officials I will just complain about the mess I put myself in !!!1!!"

gotta be honest I look forward to Frosty's bad takes

he is a gift

[wary canyon]

Some of the takes in that feedback section are great. Like, god forbid I don't want to get snatched up on my dino so I drink intelligently instead of being railroaded to drink from the deepest, most dangerous parts of the river lol

[sinful cove]

i drink at deino viable waters because im usually playing inconsequential dinos but its pretty bs that some people wanna force everybody to do that

[wary canyon]

I usually do too but I'm not gonna just throw my sub/adult away for it

[sinful cove]

i also see a lot of people swimming across center river so its not like people coming to water is uncommon

lots of people dont even bother running to the shallow zone to cross

[frosty heron]

I usually drink on Deino viable waters as Utah aswell, never got snatched , theres either no Deinos or the ones who try have low IQ

[sinful cove]

I returned to the same spot on the shore of center river to drink as utah for almost my whole playthrough once and never got nabbed too, guess the deinos are all at rhe wrong places at the wrong times lol

Ive never died to a deino in the isle yet. Fall damage can easily be blamed for 90% of my deaths

[grave veldt]

^

[dusky surge]

I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE THE USERNAME

[sinful cove]

Is deino unable to drag carno now? Did I miss something?

[stark knoll]

No, it still can

[sinful cove]

Maybe that guy was a juvie then

Or a land gator who thought he could run to the middle of center, grab a carno and run all the way back to water with it because ive been seeing a lot of deinos in the middle of fields lately like they dont know better

[pulsar ember]

@peak pumice You wanna about your feedback, cause it made no sense.

[sonic needle]

jkmattp ima say yes to the Biteforce thing but it never happend to me that a Carno can beat me as a ADult Deino 😄 and you probably werent Big enough to grab him or did it wrong

[sinful cove]

deino having low bite force makes sense for balance reasons, otherwise we'd have land gators causing trouble again

if anything they could add fracture to deino's attack

[sonic needle]

There probably just were no Deinos because there is no reason at the Moment to play them because there are 2 Safe zones to drink from now and make the Rivers useless

[sinful cove]

I don't think that is true, i still hear and see deinos regularly

saw at least 3 just on the south side of the map last time i was on

[mellow zenith]

with south pound and shallows, people are pretty much never going to the river sadly

[sinful cove]

that is true for the most part, yeah. i still see people cross the center river quite often but those people are usually juvies, tenontos and hypsis which arent exactly easy deino pickings unless the deino is lucky enough to be right there when it happens, except the juvies who provide neglegible amounts of food

also utahs usually jump like 2/3rds of the way over the water to cross

the river is simply so narrow. a return of lazy river and titan lake would be cool

[sonic needle]

Most parts of the Rivers are to shallow and to thin in my Opinion would love to have wider River or bigger Rivers and deeper most of the Time i gotta hug the Ground so i dont get seen at the Surface just because i got 50Cm above me. And the Vision as a Adult Deino with one Nutrient is horrible under water. In the moment its nearly Impossible to have all 3 Nutrients full as a Adult because you dont get anything else besides other Deinos or AI Fishes wish only feed one Nutrient.

[mellow zenith]

btw anyone got problem finding the water icon when sniffing ?

[sinful cove]

Its size seems pretty inconsistent and in some lighting it is hard to see against the compass

[mellow zenith]

well i was deino near south pound at night and it didn't show me the icon, even with the pound in front of me

i need to check that

[sonic needle]

no

[alpine plover]

did they nerfed stego?

[spare badger]

@neat forge the reason people camped rivers was.caude Utah couldn't pounce you in water, not because of the mud. You can't actually wallow in battle since it takes too long and one hit ruins it. You can only wallow if you escape or kill your aggressors. So no, it won't really promote river camping

[neat forge]

Wallow Bait was a Reason to

[spare badger]

I guess so

Can you still cancel the animation tho?

[placid reef]

and Frosty strikes again

[neat forge]

yes you can still just stand up again

[spare badger]

I see

[sinful cove]

Frosty "nerf what ever I'm not playing" Icewing blesses us with another bad take

[alpine plover]

icewing has amazing suggestions

the suggestions are so dumb it actually makes them good

[onyx trellis]

This is my most waited change i hope to get implemented from Isle Wiki Carnotaurus: "Loud - its footsteps can be heard before it is seen" 😂
My no.1 death reason are those 2 ton cats..

[half girder]

no no

make it so footsteps can be heard even louder than normal when facing in that general direction

as for carno yes that shit should be a bit louder

but i think it’s a thing with the audio bugging, i rem i heard one but it was a few feet away from me so i dodged just in time

also why tf am i rarely seeing pachys now?? does utah dom them that hard? 😦

[grave veldt]

Audio is glitched rn that’s why carno can barley be heard

One of the main reasons I die from them since I usually listen for audio cues

[pulsar ember]

yo is Frosty the Icewing good?

[half girder]

dude took an L, i killed a juvie carno as a hatch/fresh juvie utah, took alot of tracking and almost died but i did it.

[wise obsidian]

Isle wiki is outdated by like 4 years or more, dont use it

[half girder]

i think utah could use some tweaks ngl

[spare badger]

Your supposed to face away from the tail

[spare badger]

So you dont jump towards certain death

[alpine plover]

Tbh even then Utah can't get away

A stego can just buck, swing, buck swing, buck swing

Eventually you'll have to get off and end up jumping right into the tail

[half girder]

i did it before and i jumped off normally, weird

but good to know

[spare badger]

When 'before'?
Before they added the directional leap?

[half girder]

yes

lol

[spare badger]

Lmao

[half girder]

did it like 4 days ago

[spare badger]

They made it aimable so they can't force you into a rock

[half girder]

ah ok

even so i got a little delay when i jumped off sometimes

weird

[alpine plover]

Also this.

[spare badger]

Cause the strat was to go up to a rock, the Utah would jump off, and you get a free kill when it hits it

[half girder]

new bug

[spare badger]

Did they fix the run delay?

[half girder]

no, i almost got domed

no one wants to 1v1 me, even a damn teno keeps running back to the stegos, its utah that scary rn?

[spare badger]

Lack of mud

Teno will almost always win a 1v1 with a Utah
But good Utah's can do a lot of bleed
And without wallowing they can bleed out even after they kill you

[half girder]

yes

[spare badger]

I've decided to play Utah for the first time since update 2
To see how good it is

I usually play teno

[spare badger]

What is it? What happened?

[half girder]

idk, so pissed rn, got hit 2 feet away from a tail slam and mega fps and ping nukes

this game doesnt feel playable rn

[spare badger]

I have got 60fps for the first time in the isle since update 3 playing hypsi

Only lasted for 10 seconds but it was a good 10 seconds

As the baby utah

[half girder]

i get 90 rarely

[spare badger]

My monitor won't even register that much lmao

[thorn pecan]

I actually lost my full grown stego because I killed 2 adult deinos and 2 baby Utahs appear 2 different times and I bled out because I couldn't sit down 2 times and they were outside of my attack radius

personally I think stego should have some sort of stomp so it can kill things under it

because its outrageous how I lost something that took 5 hours to grow because people ran over to me as baby Utahs they grew for 5 seconds

[spare badger]

Trample will come eventually

[thorn pecan]

I hope trampling your owns species won't be a thing

[spare badger]

It will
That's how walking works

You can't exactly choose to phase through your child

[thorn pecan]

so that means if I'm on a nest in the future and I walk over my nest while a hatchling is in it I will kill the hatchling?

[slim dragon]

Well yes, that seems to be the most evident thing that would happen

[neat forge]

@thorn pecan did your Really struggle against 2 Baby Utahs while 1 whole pack of Adult Utahs struggle with 1 Stego??

[thorn pecan]

adult Utahs can get hit easily

baby Utahs can go in your legs and outside of both attack hitboxes and babies run as fast as an adult stego

they can just trail ride you

[thorn pecan]

and keep in mind I'm trying to sit down as well after killing 2 adult deinos

and the Utahs are as tall as the grass and fyi it was night at the time which makes it more difficult

[dreamy linden]

I actually did that to an adult stego before, the counter was walking into a large pond and when the babies pounce release they float and you just turn and bite them

I have no idea how much bleed damage a baby utah can do, but the stego was constantly bled for almost an hour and didnt die

[wise sparrow]

I'm starting to get the impression that frosty misses the old legacy utah that could solo apexes

[barren oracle]

Frosty would never he makes the best feedback

Icewing makes really bad feedback though

[wise sparrow]

Bring back tail riding

[thorn pecan]

well I can't do that because I killed 2 deinos in oasis but there still 5 more lmao

[high moth]

Ehm it’s a difference if they would have killed u while u have full health but that was just unlucky and happens to every dinosaur to get third partyd mid or after a fight. That’s actually my job as ptera to hunt the ones that’s already fighting 😂

[alpine plover]

@alpine plover I agree with you. But another solution would be for you to have a standard charge that you can use while standing. This charge has less dmg, and only stuns but doesn't knock down(even smaller things), and also makes you instantly start running and charging so you don't have to have thatt 3 second start. Or make this "Standing" charge more mobile

[barren oracle]

I just think its fine

if you fail the ambush just go away and come back later

[calm ibex]

ram really shines when you got pack going, charging from multiple directions which makes dodging it very difficult, but you know 🙂 narrative

[thorn pecan]

coincedental how there were 2 babu Utah players and I killed 2 deinos, and I was personally hunting a stego pack and we were told to become baby Utahs, or hypsis to blind the stego and keep it bleeding.

[void marten]

So very important question?

[thorn pecan]

personally part of a group hunting a stego*

I'm tired

[void marten]

WTF am I supposed to do against a pachy?

They 1 shot nearly anything and can incapacitate a full carno pretty easily.

If they decide you're dead you're dead

Or that's how it seems to me

[thorn pecan]

you have to be a really horrible adult carno to lose, you bite a pachy a few times and it will bleed out unless it's near mud, pachy bleed is garbo

bite it 3 or 4 times and it'll have to wallow or bleed out

[void marten]

To be fair there was 3 and a Utah

[sinful cove]

Mix packers

[thorn pecan]

in a 1v1 or even a 1v2 a carno can win

[thorn pecan]

that Utah is not with the pachys it was killing them

I was part of that group

[void marten]

That's why I'm asking for advice

[sinful cove]

Wait so you were mix packing

And still died to pachy

[void marten]

No

The utah helped the pachies

[thorn pecan]

the Utah decided you were a mutual enemy

if the Utah let you stay it wouldn't be able to eat

because you'd kill it/drag it off its prey

[void marten]

That's not what I'm asking either way

[thorn pecan]

also carno players are absolute douches

[void marten]

Cool thanks...

[thorn pecan]

bite it and let it bleed out

[sinful cove]

Hard to feel bad for a carno theyre always spam broadcasting and using wall hacks

[void marten]

But when my legs are broken, my jaw is broken, and I'm blind?

Not all

[sinful cove]

You coulda hauled ass instead of picking a 3v1 fight

[void marten]

And not just carnos

[sinful cove]

Carnos are the worst offenders

[void marten]

Again broken legs

[sinful cove]

So did they ambush you or something

[void marten]

Kinda

[sinful cove]

lol pachy lynch mob

I guess just pay attention to your surroundings better

[void marten]

Idk how I can pay even more attention

[sinful cove]

I ran in to pachies using corpses as bait and ambushing people from the trees in a group of five before they almost got me too

It’s hilarious

[void marten]

Idk, I think it's really annoying to keep dieing to kos pachy groups that just sit at the spawn sites

They 1 shot you and are faster than you, It's really annoying

[sinful cove]

Eh its not the animal thats the issue, players will always kfs no matter what animal they can choose that suits their needs

[void marten]

I honestly Don't know how to fight them

Ik that

[sinful cove]

If pachy gets ruined theyll choose a different animal to lynch people with

[void marten]

Ik

That's not my point

I wanna know ways to counter them

[barren oracle]

Ik how to stun lock a carno as pachy

[void marten]

Exactly

[barren oracle]

It’s truly a beautiful technique

[sinful cove]

My friend stun locked me and killed me with his pachy while we were screwing around

[barren oracle]

Punishing morons for trying to kill me after getting like 20 head fracture

[void marten]

Doesn't that seem broken?

[barren oracle]

Honestly just hit them once

They bleed out in like 4 minutes

[sinful cove]

Pachy is a blood bag

Just like legacy

[void marten]

Ok

[sinful cove]

If its a group just stay away from wallow pits

[barren oracle]

People still making feedback while the devs are on break?

[void marten]

They can read when they come back

[barren oracle]

They don’t read it much anyway

[void marten]

Fair

[barren oracle]

Kinda just balance and ai feedback that’s read

[void marten]

I just really don't wanna see the balance issues that legacy had here

[thorn pecan]

pachys bleed is unbalanced

3 bites from an adult carno they will bleed out unless they get to mud

[barren oracle]

It’s fine

[sinful cove]

That makes sense tho

Carnos pretty big

[barren oracle]

If you keep head butting them then probably

[sinful cove]

Pachy shouldnt be brawling with it outside of a group unless its a great player

[void marten]

And a dino that does a good bit of bleed

[barren oracle]

Just walk slowly or hide and move slowly

[void marten]

I think stun locks just shouldn't be a thing against other players

[thorn pecan]

my point against carno players being douches, I spawn in as a carno, adult carno is sitting in the spawn, kills me, doesn't eat my body, maybe devs should fix carno attitudes

need to patch that

ffs people can't even be nice to their own species even though carnos don't cannibalize

[void marten]

All dino players do that

Not just carno

[thorn pecan]

stegos kill stego babies?

no

[void marten]

Yeah

I've watched it

[thorn pecan]

maybe you kill stego babies

[void marten]

I've been that baby stego

[thorn pecan]

I have never seen it happen unless the babies don't run to bushes and the parents can't hit the carnivore without hitting the child

dryos don't do it

pachys sometimes do because they're the douches of the herbivores

[void marten]

Ok, I'm tryin to have a civil discussion, please stop insulting me, it doesn't go anywhere and shows you don't really care

[thorn pecan]

never been killed as a baby by another Utah nor have I seen it

it's because you know only carnos act this shitastic

[void marten]

Until the nutrition update Utah cannibalism was rampant

...

[thorn pecan]

I think you just cannibalized a lot

[void marten]

Only carnos?

[thorn pecan]

I never got cannibalized

[sinful cove]

Doesnt carno have cannibalism on its diet or was that changed

[void marten]

Yes it does actually

[alpine plover]

Still does

[sinful cove]

I haven’t touched that shitstain dino in a while so i wasnt sure

[thorn pecan]

the point is the carno killed me and ran away didn't hear it eating me and when I spawned in my body was untouched

[void marten]

Some poeple are just assholes

[thorn pecan]

somebody who agrees with me a fellow carno hater

[void marten]

Part of online games

But not just carnos

[sinful cove]

Yeah theres lots of kfsers thats the isle for ya though i cant exactly complain myself because ive done it a few times too

[thorn pecan]

and 80% of those assholes play carno because they're so fast nobody can catch them

[void marten]

Every dino has it's assholes

[thorn pecan]

dryo assholes?

no

[void marten]

Man if you're gonna be unreasonable I'm not gonna waste my time

[sinful cove]

If a dino is equipped to kill at all people will be an asshole with it. If an animal has low commitment value people will be an asshole with it. If an animal is hard to catch people will be an asshole with it

Just in different ways

[thorn pecan]

you're making an excuse because you know carnos are fucking cancer

[void marten]

Or if it's big and scary

[thorn pecan]

carnos fit all of those which is why people are assholes with it

[sinful cove]

Carno is the fastest land animal and also the land apex pred so it is cancer and adding it before cerato was a mistake

[void marten]

I kinda agree that it needs competition, like cerato

[thorn pecan]

late carno juvi is capable of killing boars and at that point nothing can catch them unless they're seriously stupid

[sinful cove]

Cerato would have been a better psuedo mid predator to add first because he is a slower brawler

[void marten]

Indeed

Utahs outrun them at that stage

[thorn pecan]

is cerato keeping its old model or getting a new one?

[sinful cove]

Most of the wall hackers seem to use carno and its just gross

Cerato seems to have his old model

[void marten]

That's more of a hacker problem than carno problem

[thorn pecan]

yes and all the douche hackers playing carnos

[sinful cove]

My point is carno is so abuseable with those hacks compared to other animals

[thorn pecan]

so it becomes a hacker/carno thing

[sinful cove]

Cerato wouldnt be as cancer with those hacks

The hackers would probably be using pachy or utah

[void marten]

Again, hackers will hack, they'd just find something else

[sinful cove]

I know

Im saying they have the fastest animal who is also the apex to do it with

[void marten]

Yes

[sinful cove]

Which is worst case

[thorn pecan]

yes but carnos are the cancer because all the hackers go for them

it's not IF it wasn't there because it is there and carnos aren't leaving, hackers and carnos go hand in hand

[sinful cove]

If carno was postponed and cera was added instead then the hackers would have to settle for lower tier animals

Slightly less cancer

[thorn pecan]

and that's why most of them are so douchy because they see people being douchy and then they go carno to be a douche

[void marten]

But without hackers carno is fine, why would you nerf something to accommodate for hackers, that makes no sense at all

[thorn pecan]

I never said nerf it

[sinful cove]

Who here suggested nerfing carno

[thorn pecan]

I said Carno players in general are pieces of shit

[sinful cove]

Im just saying it shouldnt have been added this early

Same with stego and deino tbh

[void marten]

I just want to hammer in it's a people problem not a dino problem

[thorn pecan]

stego on land is unmatched something like kentro would have been better

[thorn pecan]

it is a dino problem because the carno should've never been added this early

[sinful cove]

It is both

[thorn pecan]

and a people problem because it's so abusable

[thorn pecan]

Carno bias

[void marten]

Bet you'd be upset if I said all pachy players are horrible people

[thorn pecan]

I don't main pachy

I main dryo

[sinful cove]

Are pachy players hacking like carnos?

[void marten]

Not the point

And actually I'd much prefer cerato over carno

[sinful cove]

If they are being assholes with what the game has given them it pales in comparison to carno assholery

[thorn pecan]

I had a group of 3 carnos hovering over me biting the bushes for 40 minutes yesterday

[void marten]

You'd get the same thing with utah

[thorn pecan]

infact carno players are just so bad and stupid at the game when I was zigzagging they were biting eachother

[void marten]

Lol

[thorn pecan]

it's the dinos bad players use because they can escape everything

[sinful cove]

Yeah but utahs dont tank as much damage as carnos by far

[thorn pecan]

it's either bad players or hackers that use carno

[void marten]

Idk I think sweeping generalizations don't really work

[thorn pecan]

a good group of 3 or 4 carnos can take down a stego with coordination I was in a Utah pack of 14 and it took 40 minutes to kill a stego, it died of the thirst, not us

carnos are by far much much better

[sinful cove]

I had an idiot af carno try to charge me on my utah and somehow miss even though i stood still and then spam bite while running through the woods not even knowing where i was they are bottom of the barrel

[thorn pecan]

and they are exploited for it

fastest carnivore, strongest carnivore (on land), heabutt

[sinful cove]

I dont run in to that level of stupidity on pachies

[void marten]

Do you know how often carnos get that many full adults? especially after cannibalism now helping them

[sinful cove]

Growing a carno is a no brain process

Same with utah to be fair, just eat a sea turtle at the dead part of the map and afk

[void marten]

Kinda true

[thorn pecan]

lmao

but Utahs aren't a third of abusable

[sinful cove]

I afk grow my carnis because its rewarded to do so

I keep my bonuses longer by doing it

[void marten]

I get bored

I actually gotta do stuff

[sinful cove]

Yeah its like legacy growth boring af

[void marten]

Yeah

I hated that

[thorn pecan]

I've seen 2 groups of 3 adult carnos in the last day as well as a group of 2 they have plenty

[void marten]

It really needs to be adressed, make the game more rewarding overall

I personally seen 1 in a week

[thorn pecan]

bias and lies

[sinful cove]

I still hear braindead carno packs spam calling in every corner of the map

[void marten]

And it was one I was in

[void marten]

Lol

[sinful cove]

Cant get away from that shit

So annoying

[thorn pecan]

carnos never stop spamcalling

[void marten]

Dude, say what you want, Idc, Just let me discuss, You're never gonna convince anyone via insulting them, they will just double down

[thorn pecan]

until their voice gets detroyed and they sound like a croaking frog

[sinful cove]

Yeah theyre like babies with a rattle

[void marten]

Lol

[sinful cove]

They just keep making noise and have empty ass heads

[thorn pecan]

I loved my rattles when I was a baby 😦

[sinful cove]

Babies love their carno rattle now too

[void marten]

Lol, maraca brain

[sinful cove]

I spite kill goats just so carnos cant eat them

[void marten]

Bruh

No wonder there's no ai, you keep killing it all lol

[sinful cove]

Ive killed and eaten so many goats just so cancer carnos cant benefit off them

[thorn pecan]

fucks sake

[sinful cove]

It is my wrath, my vengeance

[thorn pecan]

I just spawned in twice carnos in every fucking spawn

[void marten]

Lol

[thorn pecan]

CARNOS KILLING BABY CARNOS

[sinful cove]

God theyre an actual disease

[void marten]

Yeah cannibals suck

[thorn pecan]

I now have 2 spawns diabled

[void marten]

Lol

[thorn pecan]

I died twice in 3 minutes from carnos

cannibals

[sinful cove]

Probably hacking like 80% of carnos

[thorn pecan]

I got away

FROM ANOTHER FUCKING CARNO

3 spawns

[void marten]

If you're so upset you can play another game

[thorn pecan]

3 carnos

[thorn pecan]

and I'm going to bleed out

[void marten]

Ok

[thorn pecan]

I don't want to play another game, just like how I want to keep shaking my baby rattle

[void marten]

Ok

[thorn pecan]

nevermind bleed stopped at 24%

this is what I mean carno players are shit

never seen any other carnivores kill me in spawn that quick other than Utahs

[sinful cove]

Carno players are so bottom of the barrel that when they arent using hacks even a human can juke and escape them

[void marten]

Lol

[thorn pecan]

carno players are so bad they have to catch babies and the experimental probability the baby escapes is still 1 3rd, and they do it for 1 or 2 bites lmao

it's like eating a chicken nugget

[sinful cove]

Carno players are like those kids using the rails at the bowling alley so their ball doesnt go in the gutter when they fuck up

[thorn pecan]

it's like farming chickens and letting them out of the coop which is what spawn camping basically is if it gets away

[thorn pecan]

I know a kid who does that

he has red hair and no soul

the embodiment of a carno player

[sinful cove]

he probably is a carno deep down

[thorn pecan]

I was grouped with them on a school excursion to a bowling place, and they were the only one using a rails during it

and they said it's fair because they were just that bad

and they were losing before they used it

[sinful cove]

A true carnosseur

[void marten]

Lol kids suck

[thorn pecan]

end result they won because they used the rails

which is like a guy losing because he uses a Utah so he gives up contemplates suicide and then remembers he can use a carno

[void marten]

You seem salty lol

[jolly matrix]

If there's one thing thats worse than a carno, it's a pachy.

[wise obsidian]

@versed rune Pachy is extremely weak to bleed and even a few bites from a utah will bring one down. For how strong it is, it has a pretty bad weakness

[half girder]

people still saying pachy is overtuned E TU

[half girder]

preach

[grave veldt]

me looking at how one pounce gets pachy to around half blood

with buck

[half girder]

skil issue mang

[grave veldt]

u cant even one clap a utah anymore anyways

even with full charges it'll do 400 dmg

50 hp still left over

[wise obsidian]

Well, one alt bite and the utah's dead if you manage to get it to 50 hp

[grave veldt]

tru but it can still escape

[wise obsidian]

Its going to be stunned if youve rammed it though

[half girder]

only time a pachy hits me is if it lags, low fps or desync

i do be getting kncked over from a tail hit

[alpine plover]

Who wins Utah pack or 2 pachys?

[safe storm]

utah pack if they are good, uncoordinated packs will get cucked. or even if they win they will have multiple casualties.

[grave veldt]

2-3 utahs have a good chance of killing the pachy's but bad utah packs will get destroyed and die fast

[wise obsidian]

Utah pack if they manage to get bites/pounces in

[half girder]

pack if they are good

all about timing and baiting

a pachy making mistakes and missing is a dead pachy

[sinful cove]

lol that baby utah feedback. Yeah they run forever but ive shaken baby utahs several times as hypsi, not been killed by one once. Maybe its different with juvie carno but its hard to feel bad about a carno not making it to adult stage

[dusky surge]

I feel some animals just have better juvi states and utah wins out

[sinful cove]

It def does, carno juvie has average stam and herbivore juvies are just universally trash. Only one who might have it better is ptera

[dusky surge]

ptera is S-Tier at all times

[mellow oyster]

I tryed to play as carnos but is almost impossible, Carnos players killing others carnos and this is because the IA`s is not working, and everybody is starving, the Devs must do something, I can only play as Ptero because the only IA working is fish because crabs and turtles only spawn on server resets.

[barren oracle]

That makes no sense what so ever

[sinful cove]

why are pteras even trying to kill a juv deino? it isnt on our diet

you just killing for sport and complaining that the juvie deino you attacked right next to the water went back in the water?

[bitter oak]

Pteras are kinda out there playing their own game trying not to get eaten while drinking. When bigger flyers arrive, things will get interesting.

[sinful cove]

i still kill some things as ptera but you shouldnt attack a juv deino thats right at the water edge and get salty when it doesnt roll over and die

of all things, why did they try the alligator? like bruh

[frosty heron]

whats the Ptera diet?

[sinful cove]

form the top of my bad memory i think schooling fish, crabs, turtles, frogs, rabbits, hypsi, carcasses

it isnt supposed to be an active hunter, though it can still take out some juvies it just isnt the most convenient thing to do

[frosty heron]

Alright thats the dino with the Frog on its diet, just caught one as juvi Utah today and they dont even fill 20% food so makes sense they exist for PTs

[sinful cove]

perosonally i think they should remove hypsi and replace it with a vague juvenile/hatchling preference because hypsi is a forest animal and ptera isnt good in the forest

they might exist for beipi and stuff in the future but yeah theyre just there for PTs rn

[frosty heron]

Yeah theres work to do with some dietary items

[clever tiger]

lol ptera players mad when they are easily the safest dino to play in the game

[sinful cove]

Im a ptera player and i was disappointed the two in that vid didn’t get snatched in the end

[sinful cove]

@fast blade how did the carno headbutt you? Were you trying to play land gator?

[barren oracle]

Dont play landgator

dont do that

[sinful cove]

Eliminate all land gators

[sinful cove]

<@&401466542140817419>

[barren oracle]

scam bot?

[sinful cove]

yeap

[fast blade]

I was in a shallow part of the lagoon in the plains

just went right throw the water lmao

through*

[sinful cove]

That pounce suggestion sounds like it would make utah packs actual cancer to deal with, due to all the indirect buffs it alreafy got

[frosty heron]

The only indirect buff Utah got its wallowing spots as far as I know

Yesterday I noticed that you can still hug trees for you advantage , while you dont fall down for a guaranteed death , you can make an Utah dismount right next to you which means death agaisnt Stegos

And aiming the dismount is kinda not an option when one of the options you have is dismounting right next to Stego tail by logic (kill on dismount still possible)

[dusky surge]

@cosmic comet you know you can just edit the original message in general feedback right

[cosmic comet]

ran out of characters

[fresh laurel]

@hexed sorrel i dont think it would be ok to just buff juvie carno bite instead of the other juvies and 20 bite force for a juvie carno seems way too high considering its a fresh spawn

[sinful cove]

We dont need even more carnos making it to adult by buffing its juvie

[primal dove]

well it defenitely is better than just 4 utahs pouncing u as a stego, u buck and an other utah bites ur head so u still get tons of bleed dmg in the end

[sinful cove]

regardless, you are vulnerable to bites while bucking, and your buck will be rendered useless as it wouldn't shake off the pouncing raptors. all it would take is for the raptors to have 2 brain cells to rub together and know when to take their finger off of a button to sentence you to death against a pack. that is my understanding of the suggested mechanic, at least

[frosty heron]

You should play more Utah then, pouncing a Stego could mean death even if you land it and depending of the scenario, its not as easy as just "release the buttom" Boila youre safe , also if you buck while standing still Stego plays an animation while it stands on its back legs so landing headshots its kinda tricky

[sinful cove]

im not talking about utah's current functionality

[frosty heron]

Oh bucking you mean? That mechanic is mandatory to use , theres a bug where you dont waste stam while using it sometimes

[barren oracle]

i killed a steg alone with a utah

[frosty heron]

And also you can fake buck to bait people

[barren oracle]

utah is far too hard to balance at this point

[frosty heron]

When, what grow, give me info

[barren oracle]

100% at north and i just pounce it for a milisecond every minute or so

and it could do nothing

[frosty heron]

That Stego probably had below average IQ if he let you pounce him that many times

[barren oracle]

He cant stop it

you teleport onto their side

[frosty heron]

He can , im many ways

[sinful cove]

the suggestion is nothing more than a nerf to bucking lol

[barren oracle]

and it cancels the swipe animation

[frosty heron]

What?

[frosty heron]

Bucking is fine imo

[barren oracle]

and now you can phase through walls to get them too

[sinful cove]

the suggestion wants to nerf it

by allowing utah to stay on during the buck for a very minimal stamina drain (less than running drain)

[frosty heron]

Uh, why nerf bucking when is the mechanic the defender has to use if he dont wanna bleed out instantly...

[sinful cove]

idk he thinks it would make things more "fun"

[frosty heron]

Yeah bad suggestion

[sinful cove]

maybe for the utahs lol

against a pack this would be a death sentence

[frosty heron]

Bucking can turn out agaisnt the defender when you force to use it múltiple times as it drains stamina it doesnt need any nerfs

Only thing bucking need is bug fixing , and thats it, but that happens with 90% of the game

[frosty heron]

Ive seen you can stay latched even if they rub theimselves agaisnt a tree but never teleport of that kind , time the swing when the utah dismounts and they have no chance to escape if theres an obstacle

[hollow canyon]

Goddamn Tenonto is just as broken as expected. I literally just 1v2ed Carnos

the first one just dropped instantly the moment he got hit

[sinful cove]

most carno players are about as smart as a walnut

[hollow canyon]

fighting the second one took a while

nah, this one was really good, he actually didn't get hit for a very long time

the issue is that the moment he did I put out so much damage onto him despite being on fumes of stamina at that point that he had to back off

[sinful cove]

not long enough

[hollow canyon]

that fight lasted around...

7 minutes?

It's just absurd that I got to drop the first Carno so quickly

Tenonto definitely needs a nerf

[frosty heron]

Tenontos are dangerous, didnt had the chance to fight them myself but saw them bullying Carnos while I was watching as Stego

Even saw 1 surviving a good ambush from 2 Carnos himself

I cant argue for nerfs yet until I fight them tho

[hollow canyon]

I haven't fought them myself either

I just played the goddamn thing

best way to find out how well something actually performs imo

I'm not even a good Tenonto

Oh there was also a juvie Carno with them

didn't mention it because... well it wasn't that relevant

although it was a pest biting me while I was focused on the adult Carno

ended up even surviving a clawswipe to the face so it couldn't have been that small

Either way the tailslam doubling Carno's damage is a joke.

I'd like to fight some Utahs now that I know how it pefforms vs Carno

I swear the people that get hit with the charge lack at least one brainlobe

[frosty heron]

I should try Teno then , I only have seen their combat capabilities from outside

They probably do better against carnos than they do against Utahs in this version

[hollow canyon]

Idk about Utahs, want to fight a pack now, I only fought single Utah before and it went down in like 20 seconds

From what I'm being told Utah pack is just about the only thing that can threaten the current Tenonto

[placid reef]

thats kinda unsettling, that a brawler dino doesnt need much skill to be effective

the one category as a whole that would be defined by a high skill ceiling

[hollow canyon]

Its damage output allows it to get away with playing really poorly

[placid reef]

so basically old carno kinda

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto always used to be one of the more skill-requiring animals in this game simply because its designed that way

atm it's so overbuffed it requires very little skill

[placid reef]

ye, i really hope brawlers remain the high skill ceiling animals they are supposed to be to be effective

[hollow canyon]

Such a shame that the devs have turned one of the more complex animals to play that required a decently high skill floor to the level where it's so overpowered that every halfwit can play it decently well(I mean I've still heard from some people that they lose against Carno as Tenonto which is just... how bad can you be at this game exactly?)

[placid reef]

prob first time playing teno/ evrima or just lost causes

[hollow canyon]

I guess it's just nonsensical to make herbivores that require some skill to play, I've noticed the general trend that people that want the game to be more of a birdbath-simulator tend to gravitate to herbivores.

[placid reef]

ye, saw that aswell

[hollow canyon]

Perhaps the devs should just leave the more complex gameplay designs to carnivores and make herbivores more so just dependent on spamming some mouse button.

[placid reef]

some people just never understand the idea of a class based system, bc they canth fathom that not every option is suited for them and want each and every one to suite their vision bc the current playable that fulfills that is shit

[placid reef]

i really hate that, enforces even more the carni bias that legacy had, carnis always had mroe developed gameplay and i really apreciated evrima (with teno specifically) with more developed gameplay for herbis

[dusky surge]

i wish teno had more than just one viable attack now tbh

teno's good but any attack that doesn't have you holding alt is essentially useless

[hollow canyon]

They did but... it seems there are good reasons to keep it that way. Herbivore players are just more ERP-oriented in general and less interested in PvP so throwing those complex gameplay designs at those classes is just nonsensical. The herbivore playerbase ends up being incapable of utilising them anyways which makes the animal require its damage to get bloated out to be "viable"

I kind of agree - the kick could get some love

the bite is a joke all around

[dusky surge]

im pretty sure ERP is not the word term should be using lmao

[placid reef]

bite on most herbis is a joke

[hollow canyon]

Idk what's up with herbivores getting bites that do nothing tbh

[dusky surge]

im fine with herbis having weaker bites, having everyone bite everything is a little lame

[hollow canyon]

Not sure if that's the right word to describe what I'm trying to get across, but it's really clear that those people just want gameplay that's much less PvP oriented and complex gameplay-designs in terms of PvP are just counterproductive for these species.

[dusky surge]

i mean, it's why they picked herbivore

[hollow canyon]

Yea that's why an animal like Tenonto makes kind of little sense

[dusky surge]

im not entirely sure why you're upset that people who play animals who don't need to kill to eat pick those characters for that exact reason

[hollow canyon]

its very design requires the highest skill-floor out of all the animals in the game

something that gets in the way of most people preferring herbivores

[hollow canyon]

I think that's because you're not understanding what I'm saying.

I'm saying that creating animals with a complex combat design that have a high skill-floor in terms of PvP and require you to put a lot of effort into grasping the PvP with that animal and then making them herbivores is a bad idea if most people choosing herbivores are less willing to engage in PvP.

[dusky surge]

I disagree with the sentiment. Teno represents an animal that has moments of downtime and moments of combat, rather than constantly searching for the next kill. It's designed for players who like combat but don't actively seek it, considering how it's designed to be primarily defensive with its most powerful move stopping it from moving and only hitting behind it

[hollow canyon]

It's designed to require the most skills in the game

You don't get to just play it well if you just started the game

[dusky surge]

I actually despise the idea of herbivores getting no PvP reps because herbis don't like constant PvP. Seems like a waste to make every herbivore something that flees rather than fights back

[hollow canyon]

People say that it's balanced "now" when it's completely broken in hands of anyone who's at least somewhat competent at this game, because they were just trash with it before. When this animal was balanced its playerbase thought it was bad or inferior in some way simply because they were incapable of playing it correctly. In reality the only time Tenonto has been bad over the last year was on the QA branch when its damage output got gutted for the first couple of patches.

[hollow canyon]

You're really not grasping what I'm saying.

[frosty heron]

Well people asked for Tenonto buffs prior to update 4 (on QA) because it was on a bad spot, and there you have the buffs

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto didn't need any buffs prior to the QA

It was one of the better animals in the game between update 2 and the release of the mechanic test for Update 4.

[dusky surge]

it was garbage when the mechanic test launched iirc due to the fracture integration

[hollow canyon]

Anyone that was failing with it at that time simply didn't have the required skill to play this animal - which is exactly what I'm saying: creating such complex animals in terms of PvP and making them herbivores is a bad idea, because the playerbase that tends to play herbivores is less PvP-inclined and can't utilise them properly.

It's irrelevant why it was garbage on the MT. The important part is that it was bad only on the MT. Livebranch Tenonto's always been one of the best animals in the game(since update 2 launched)

[dusky surge]

i find that shortsighted. If you want carnivore bias, that's how you get it, you're literally describing legacy. Herbivores had less combat-viable mechanics for the mostpart while carnis got ambush speed, legbreak and more. Just because some herbivore players don't like constant PvP doesn't mean we can go "well, no more high-skill PvP for any of you, specific people ruined it for everyone"

[hollow canyon]

You're really, really having issues understanding what I'm saying

Viability and complexity are different things

where do you get viability from?

[dusky surge]

I know what you're talking about

I still hate it

Don't limit how complex herbis can be

Let them be just as complex as carnivores when it comes to PvP

[hollow canyon]

You clearly don't know what I'm talking about considering what you've been saying for the past 5 minutes

[hollow canyon]

This ^, clearly suggests that you're not understanding what I'm saying

[hollow canyon]

So that their playerbase can't play them when they are balanced?

[dusky surge]

either your statement is extremely unclear or something else is happening

why do you assume herbis are incapable of doing PvP

[hollow canyon]

Herbivore players are less PvP-interested, you said it yourself.

Do you know disagree with that statement?

[dusky surge]

i understand you hate your so-called "bird-bath sim", but if you REALLY want that to happen, just strip herbis of interesting combat

that's a good start

[hollow canyon]

Combat doesn't have to be complex to be interesting?

[dusky surge]

either that, or the people who enjoy complex combat will always be carnivores and we end up with legacy with the fun old carni bias

[hollow canyon]

Where are you getting these ideas from?

One has literally nothing to do with the other

in legacy carnivores were just in general much more viable comat-wise

They weren't more complex at all

They were just as complex - everything just pressed one button

Matter of fact I'd say that herbivores were the more complex ones because they had more than one attack more often so there was some reason to do some thinking with them

this whole argument of "carnivores were more complex in the legacy" is complete nonsense

they were less complex if anything

[dusky surge]

I personally think that treating every herbivore as something that needs handholding and easy to understand mechanics is silly.

"New players won't know how to play teno"
New players won't know how to play everything, but learning a complex character is far more engaging than being spoonfed easy to understand animals because "herbis don't like PvP as much". If I'm a herbi player and I want the specific combat encounters to require me to utilise complex mechanics, let me have that

[placid reef]

also... if you dont want to deal with a complex combat, then dont pick the dino with the complex combat system, thats the role of class systems

not every dino has/will be made equal and/or the same as the next one

[sinful cove]

okay idk what the hell aken means when he says herbis dont like combat because i constantly run in to pachy groups baiting people in to lynch mobs

i see stegos walking towards other peoples fights trying to get a piece, when i play merc 99% of my deaths are from pachies

he is taking part of the herbi base and wanting to ruin all herbivores to cater to it, it's always what he's on about, making herbivores worse

[placid reef]

i mean i expected nothing less from pachy, they are the crackheads of dino games

[sinful cove]

pachies are more bloodthirsty than utahs

[placid reef]

PC:E literally

[sinful cove]

i had a juv pachy waste all his stam trying to run across the dam to kos my juv ptera

[hollow canyon]

No, not ruin - the issue is that some animals are just clearly unplayable to their playerbase until they are outright overpowered.

Tenonto is one such example

Stego and the rest are w/e they aren't any complex

Tenonto however is

[sinful cove]

unplayable to a part of their playerbase, you take all people who play a faction and boil them down to one mentality and you are simply wrong

[hollow canyon]

and people thought it was either bad or meh when it was absolutely a good animal and only decided that it's "balanced" when it became outright overpowered

[placid reef]

and... let that be, whats bad about having a high skill animal, like utah (during some of its more balanced times)

[hollow canyon]

I've 1v2ed Carnos with Tenonto an hour ago

then I fought off a pack of 2 adults and 3 juvies

now I fought off a pack of 1 adult, two subs and some juvies

and yet people claim that this animal is now balanced

it was balanced in update 3 and 3.5

if someone was failing at it

[sinful cove]

and? if you want tenonto to be easier for the "erp" oriented herbivore playerbase as you so rudely called it, then you want that to happen more often? or do you want tenonto to be nerfed in both skill ceiling AND combat capability to compensate for your dumbing down of its mechanics

[hollow canyon]

it's pretty clear that they just shouldn't play something this context

No, Tenonto is fine the way it is

it shouldn't be getting a rework

just because 80% people that decide to play it are bad at the game

it should just get nerfed

and be left to people who can actually use it to a decent extent

[sinful cove]

then what is this whole rude barrage on the herbivore playerbase about

[hollow canyon]

if a bad player wants to play it it's on them

[sinful cove]

since you supposedly dont even know what erp is, the vast majority of them seem to be utah and rex players which is ironic

[hollow canyon]

I've seen some Utah and Rex erp

but only in the legacy

I haven't seen any ERP in Evrima in general

[sinful cove]

ive run in to two in evrima its one of the reasons i usually play alone that shit nasty

also the "uwu wanna be my child :3" utahs

[hollow canyon]

I don't care for it, I play alone just because I like to play alone, I just sent another Tenonto its own way because it was pestering me about grouping up with it

[sinful cove]

also the most "bird-bath" oriented animal in the game is on the carni faction

[hollow canyon]

The point stands - herbivores should be easier both to grow and to play in terms of PvP. They shouldn't have to require the player to utilise multiple attacks to play the animal, because it's just counterproductive.

[placid reef]

what a revealtion

[hollow canyon]

I'm guessing that's Deinosuchus

[placid reef]

ptera...

[hollow canyon]

I don't think Ptera is a birdbath animal, quite the opposite

[sinful cove]

so erp and bird-bath are both most viable by clicking on the carni faction

[hollow canyon]

Exactly, which they shouldn't be

[sinful cove]

i can sit on rocks as ptera and occasionally eat a fish. i can easily hang out with other animals and avoid all pvp

[hollow canyon]

Playing herbivores should be easier, growing them should be easier and surviving with them should be easier

[sinful cove]

herbivores cant avoid pvp the way ptera can, because once they are spotted they lose the engagement choice

[hollow canyon]

If it's not the playerbase of those animals starts having issues and considers their animals to be underpowered, Tenonto being the best example of this

[sinful cove]

ptera is less pvp oriented than the animals who eat leaf

how much more bird bath can you get than that

[hollow canyon]

It needed to be buffed up to the point where it can handle 2 carnivores that are larger and have a longer growth than Tenonto does for the playerbase to consider Tenonto "viable" and "well balanced"

[dusky surge]

simple solution

make ptera a herbi

[hollow canyon]

Pteranodon is irrelevant

so is Dryo and Hypsi

[sinful cove]

man i just want tupan lol

[hollow canyon]

I'm not talking about meme-animals whether they are there or not has no effect on the actual game

[dusky surge]

one day dryo and hypsi will actually be legit animals

also ptera isn't a meme animal lmao

[hollow canyon]

Ptera could be buffed to have unending hunger and water, same with Dryo and Hypsi

[dusky surge]

its annoying

[sinful cove]

pteras actually have affect on the game due to how much they are used in mix packs

[hollow canyon]

it would change next to nothing about them

[dusky surge]

but its not a meme animal

[hollow canyon]

Well yea Ptera can have some use as a scout although tbh I haven't seen them utilised that way since early update 3.

[sinful cove]

eh i still see it

saw some cancer carnos using one recently

3 cancer carnos, a ptera and a juvie tenonto

i guess the tenonto was gonna be their heavy guns

[placid reef]

i just want scavanger ptera

[hollow canyon]

@frosty heron btw Utahs are indeed much better vs Tenonto, I just died to a pack of Utahs after killing 2 of them. Although admittedly I was already quite hurt after fighting the last Carno pack.

[frosty heron]

Considering the amount of videos Ive seen from Utah players , yeah I was expecting that, if you land 2-3 solid pounces the Tenonto is fucked

[hollow canyon]

I died to the damage from pounces btw

didn't bleed out

which is what was surprising

[frosty heron]

Damn, how many pounces you got ?

[hollow canyon]

I still had more than half my health(I think)

4 I think

first two died

after they disengaged the pounce

then the next two killed me

I was surprised it dealt that much damage

[hollow canyon]

one of them might've actually missed the pounce, either way they were lined up perfectly to die from my tailslams

[frosty heron]

Yeah im also surprised, either Pounce damage is changed or Tenonto hp isnt that great

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto's hp is 1600

Admittedly I was mainly looking at my damage screen, I'm not 100% sure what my hp was, since I don't think I've checked it after the fight

or if I have I might be confusing it with one of the other fights I'd fought today, since I was just running at Carno packs ad nauseam.

[frosty heron]

Ive fought Carnos and land 4 pounces on them as 2 Utahs and saw it die to bleed not to damage, Carno has 1800 hp if im not wrong

Did the Utahs bite you while being pounced?

[hollow canyon]

One of them bit me

but do note - I was damaged before

likely had much less health than blood

I literally started fighting them right after I was done fighting a Carno pack