#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 296 of 1

alpine plover
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Hyenas are more successful predators than Lions are, on average.

dusky surge
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You want a real big cat predator? Jaguars and tigers

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THOSE are good predators

alpine plover
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Jaguar God tier

placid reef
kindred estuary
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Im sorry this is getting really silly.

sinful cove
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Hyenas and wild dogs are underrated predators

placid reef
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true

alpine plover
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They are

mental roost
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African wild dogs have the highest successful hunt rate of any animal in fucking Africa... Cheetahs have a decent hunt success rate but basically always lose their kill to someone else because they can't defend their kills for shit.

sinful cove
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They trump lions in success rates

placid reef
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lions are just a lazy excuse at big cat ngl

alpine plover
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They're so successful in their hunts
Which is why they can rack up insane numbers in packs/clans

mental roost
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I think it was like...68% of african wild dog hunts are successful.. while about 1 in 4 lion hunts are successful.

sinful cove
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Lions look cool and the males like to fight eachother thats why they’re famous lol

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But they suck shit compared to wild dogs

dusky surge
placid reef
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Jaguars are the real shit, since they dont go for the neck

mental roost
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Honestly, best life would be living as a nile croc... except for fucking hippos as neighbors.

sinful cove
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Also the occasional cannibalism

alpine plover
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They're also not the sharpest tools in the shed

dusky surge
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Lions do sometimes get kills, they aren't USELESS like a cheetah (fuck cheetah) but they are really not an apex king of the jungle predator like everyone calls them

placid reef
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pandas are just a lame excuse at bear, change my mind

mental roost
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Bear life = no worries

alpine plover
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Black bear is the best life

mental roost
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Biggest fucker on the block, can eat plants, fruits, bugs, fish and meat and even wolves are reluctant to mess with you. Can steal kills and make them at your leisure(the things run at a speed comparable to fucking horses despite their mass)

dusky surge
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Seriously, tigers have incredible swimspeed and landspeed, as well as an ability to climb and a fucking PARALYSE ROAR. Jaguars are amazing climbers, adept swimmers and hunters and amazing ambush predators

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I cannot get over the paralysis roar that is fucking absurd it has no right to be real

alpine plover
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Jaguars are just amazing
No other animals can boast dominating on land, trees, and in water so adept

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It owns the jungle

placid reef
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honey badgers give no shit, they go for the next generation TI_LUL

kindred estuary
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Kodiak gets to eat Salmon and berries all the time, id prefer that life.

placid reef
alpine plover
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Turtles ain't safe either
Anaconda is on the Jaguar's list too

mental roost
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Tiger life is only really hell if I recall because: humans, gaur(big ass Indian bulls), other tigers... and that's basically it. Siamese and mugger crocs are kind meh crocs.

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Kodiak bears live a good life(outside of other kodiak bears)

alpine plover
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They have no counterplay

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They're fucked

placid reef
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true, they only exist to catch gazzeles

alpine plover
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We gotta domesticate them for their species survival

mental roost
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Cheetahs have a huge incest/small gene pool problem... Not as bad as pugs are but..

kindred estuary
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Apparently they have a really weak immune system.

alpine plover
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Cheetah farms

placid reef
dusky surge
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Cheetahs get bullied by VULTURES

alpine plover
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Save the Cheetahs

mental roost
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-Cheetahs literally have anxiety problems.. and it's cursed.

placid reef
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Cheetas chirp, enough said

alpine plover
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You know why they chirp?

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To not attract predators and fool them to think they're birds

placid reef
alpine plover
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Cause they know one dumbass little Hyena can solo their motley crews

placid reef
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carno is just ancient cheeta but good honestly

alpine plover
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Cheetah done right

hot lintel
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Hoping Carno gets a bleed nerf as well.

alpine plover
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To think it used to be an apex and it's ancient ancestors were in most continents

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How far it's fallen

mental roost
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Carnotaurus is pretty much the cheetah build...but done right(Mesozoic(Cretaceous) hours

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Carno was the apex predator of its environment, wasn't it?(I swore it lived right after the Carcharadontosaurids went extinct, leaving a niche gap)

placid reef
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to think rex was prob most similar to current day lions

placid reef
mental roost
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Sub adult Rex's probably hunted much more frequently than the adults... which would make the younger Rex's honestly scarier than the big chonky individuals

alpine plover
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Not sure if it faced much competition since I don't know the fossil record of the time

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But yes, Carno's were big Cheetahs

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Sub Rexes were likely the primary hunters of it's ecosystem

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Considering they outcompeted all other mid range predators

placid reef
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What even was there to compete at that time?

alpine plover
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Leaving only smaller nimble predator niches

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There was Edmonotonsaurus(think of Shant)

placid reef
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ah in terms of carnivore i meant

alpine plover
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Hmm

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There was a small raptor alongside it

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But competition was likely phased out

placid reef
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i know there were smaller ones like dromeosaurs but those were total opposite size spectrum

alpine plover
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Since Rex's life cycles took most of the power niches in the ecosystem

kindred estuary
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Dakota raptor , which was supposed to be a faster than utah, but not as strongly built.

placid reef
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still, gotta give props to dromesaur evolution for the sickle claw, thats smart evolution at work

alpine plover
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The sickle was tbh

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Doesn't have to waste any gimicky tools like the Saber teeth, which were fragile.

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It still had a lethal killing method without changing it's autonomy too drastically

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Having a gracile body build while capable of inflicting severe damage for an active predator is complimentary evolutionary work

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Not much other modern day animals come to mind in comparison

placid reef
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well also the times have changed a lot, most animals are not armored with 3t steel armor and have mass destruction weapons so the need for such a specific tool has went more into bite force

alpine plover
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True, the formula for ecosystems changed, evolution only pushes when it's favorable and required

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Wolves get by just fine tearing their prey from the hide and dragging it down with numbers

placid reef
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we could honestly count on 2 hands the species that are still walking tanks

alpine plover
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Not alot come to mind
But due note, the ecosystems then were a lot more diverse and upsized depending on the time

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There is nothing like a Rex, theropod carnivore, or animals like Stego in modern day

placid reef
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mostly just ion elephants, rhinos, hippos, buffalos and some others

kindred estuary
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Its a shame that even the megafauna of the ice age are gone.

alpine plover
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Not entirely though

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We still have Elephants, Camels, Big cats, Bears, Wolves

kindred estuary
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True, just smaller variations.

alpine plover
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Coelcanth surviving like a mf

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Still alive after millions of years

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Dragon eel too

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Sharks still in the game

kindred estuary
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Croc and sharks been rocking their gig for a while.

alpine plover
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There comes a point where evolutionarily perfection in a niche is simply reached

kindred estuary
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Aquatic generalist preditor seems to be a safe bet for longevity.

alpine plover
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No need to change

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They have cracked abilities anyways

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Electromagnetic detection, sharp skin, regenerating rows of teeths, great underwater smell, and streamlined body for speed

placid reef
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Stone fish, stone fish i just a middle finger to evolution

alpine plover
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For Crocs they can detect motion making them very good at waiting or catching fish, can crack tortoise shells, have a mouth designed to catch fish and also bring down extremely large prey with a bone crushing bite makes it greatly multifunctional, on top of having armoured scales and them camouflaged to mistake observers for logs, while having eyes peek out on top of rivers to scout and breathe at the same time.

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It's disease, infection, and blood loss resistance is also ridiculous, with how grievous the injuries they can survive

kindred estuary
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I wonder how they will balance the semi aquatics around deinosuchus? Im really wondering how Bary, Sucho, and Spino will interact.

alpine plover
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Tbh I think they're gonna get stomped until more streams and ponds are in

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Rivers/lakes are gonna be difficult for them to exist in

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Specifically Bary

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For Spino, once it hits adult it's gonna be a cakewalk

kindred estuary
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Do you think Bary and Sucho will have to withdraw to land from Deino?

alpine plover
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Absolutely

kindred estuary
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I think that would be most realistic.

alpine plover
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Deino can drown Bary, or immobilize it by snagging it back in water over and over

kindred estuary
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I have been reading that Spino was actually supposed to have been a large fish eater and not much of a big game hunter.

alpine plover
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Yeah it should be a given

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It's body is pretty lanky to pursue prey on land

kindred estuary
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Scientists are concerned that if it really fought something its back would be easly broken from its neural spines

alpine plover
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The fossils for fish would serve as prey to sustain a creature of it's size

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There was possible evidence that one of the neural spinos were damaged by fighting

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Tbh, if Spino did go on land, it'd resort to corpse bullying for kills

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It's sail would be for either thermal regulation, or intimidation display

kindred estuary
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Its interesting, there is still so much unknown about that animal.

alpine plover
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As it's sail coupled with it's size, would likely make a Cachar at the time nervous

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Intimidation is a powerful tool in nature

placid reef
alpine plover
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The Sail on Spino does it make seem way bigger than it actually is

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Keep in mind, it's already a massive creature anyways

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It'd make a Carchar likely second guess engaging

kindred estuary
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I suppose the devs won't rock the boat and make it weak in fight compared to rex and giga.

alpine plover
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I wouldn't mind if it was weak in terrestrial combat tbh

kindred estuary
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That be cool

placid reef
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i mean, if spino is anywhere further thna it can see a lake etc thats on him

kindred estuary
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Good point

alpine plover
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Irl Spino is way cooler than Isle's kaiju Spino anyways

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And Irl Rex would slaughter Isle's Rex too

placid reef
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isle spino is just pseudo hypo TI_Wheeze

alpine plover
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Pretty much

placid reef
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still sad beipi got the pinguin treatment since it could've been a porky pine

alpine plover
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Irl Spino would look cleaner venturing out in the ocean

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And in deep water depths

kindred estuary
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Hed be the surfer bum of apexs. I love it!

alpine plover
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Yeah

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It'd be funny to see an Allo underestimate it

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Only to rear up and just chuck it away

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Irl Spino from it's center of mass could've reared up too

kindred estuary
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Allo is my favorite dino since i was a kid. I hope hes still awesome.

placid reef
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with how many dinos TI ruined....

kindred estuary
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Tl?

placid reef
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the isle

alpine plover
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Idk, there design consistency is just everywhere

placid reef
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did you see scanovas video? he talked about that in a video

alpine plover
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We have penguin Beipi, realistic Carno, then have venom troodon

kindred estuary
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They do seem to bounce back and forth from trying to be realistic to fantasy

placid reef
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venom trodon
literally mythical dino TI_Wheeze

alpine plover
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A unicorn would be more realistic

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Given it's just a horse with a horn

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Kaiju Spino, and then switching off to Fatcro, then realistic Giga is also weird

placid reef
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as much us Maggy is calling for it i just cant hate on it anymore

alpine plover
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Like, I wouldn't mind the mythical dinos if that was the direction the game was going for

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Might as well make everything mythical to a degree so it makes sense

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But then we get very paleo accurate Dinos patched in here and there

placid reef
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when i first heard utah i was so confused tf, they got that in?!

alpine plover
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TI Utah is nothing like irl Utah

placid reef
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its just another jp rippoff

alpine plover
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True

kindred estuary
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Yeah

placid reef
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or the jp rippoff

alpine plover
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Irl Utah would clobber TI Utah

placid reef
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when i heard the f call i thought i was playing the wrong game lol

alpine plover
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Absolutely destroy it
Irl Utah was a brutish heavy ambush hunter

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Had feathers too

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Made it look beefy

placid reef
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galli had feathers too and i would've loved to see that

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pompus

alpine plover
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TI Galli just looks naked

placid reef
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Its just JP

sinful cove
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Irl utah was a grizzly bear hawk monstrosity and what we have in game is a kangaroo with a knife

placid reef
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basically

kindred estuary
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Bald ostrich

alpine plover
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Would've been sick seeing Irl Utah grapple and maul prey down

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Stabbing prey ruthlessly with it's sickle claw as it's pinned down helplessly

placid reef
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Tbh i love to look at scanovas design tier list

unknown.png
alpine plover
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Pretty based take

dusky surge
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@alpine plover I read that as a stego stam NERF, not a buff

golden coral
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@alpine ploverI think the stego stam was a nerf. From what I understood, it means adult stego can no longer run for as long.

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Which is fine, adult stegos should not be running around in the first place :p

dusky surge
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Also utah got buffs iirc

golden coral
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And yeah, utah stam regen buff

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And, something else?

dusky surge
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And slower food decay

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iirc

golden coral
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I'm guessing the carno bite nerfs will help utahs

alpine plover
golden coral
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Won't be quite as easy for a carno to just kill the entire pack if they need another bite or two, that plus the turn radius nerfs should help that out a lot

golden coral
# alpine plover It was? That's good

I think so, I read it as thanks to the new stam system, they can nerf the adult stego stam time without maybe shitting on the juvie, which would be nice.

alpine plover
alpine plover
golden coral
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And yeah, utah food buff should also help it vs stegos, give them time to hunt it properly

alpine plover
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Some shit Utah buffs tho eh

golden coral
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Well what should it have gotten? Most of the issues with utah is the mechanics, not the stats

alpine plover
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I mean of course its gonna help but uh, it needed combat potential changes

dusky surge
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Utah did actually recieve some nerfs, but not entirely unwarranted ones. The growth time was apparently VERY SLIGHTLY increased and the alt-bite (which, tbf, was kind of absurd in damage) apparently got a nerf.

Frankly, adding more endurance to utah might do wonders for it. Fix the pounce and let's see how it goes

golden coral
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Well, carno bite and alt also got nerfed

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And yeah, time increase, not sure on that, but then I don't know how long utah grows?

dusky surge
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Carno's brawler state has been FUCKED over

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Which is fine

golden coral
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Pachy would be growing the same time as utah now, or close enough, right?

alpine plover
dusky surge
alpine plover
golden coral
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Not sure how normal vs alt bite damage interact

dusky surge
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I think the faster stam regen is arguably a great thing for utah's combat potential. Utah relies the most on stamina in combat out of any creature, this is really good for it

golden coral
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At least we should see how it goes. I'm already a bit wary that they might have overdone carno, changing both bite damage and turn, but we'll see :p

dusky surge
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I'd say with all this, they should buff carno's stamina and charge (and maybe change its stam regen rate too). Hell, if it's going to be this nerfed in terms of turning, very hot take, I would not be TOO upset with fracture charge making a return

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But not to the extent of prior

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When fractures are less instant death and more of a slow weakening effect

alpine plover
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Fracture charge when limp running is a thing

golden coral
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Maybe when those fractures are in, but I'm not a fan of it, I think it should be either fractures or just "normal" CC of some kind

dusky surge
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i.e. Me carno, me ambush teno, teno fracture, teno have tougher time escaping/fighting back

golden coral
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Though I'm not a fan of the carno charge in the first place.. :p

alpine plover
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And I just hope they do something about stegos bleed res that thing is invincible

golden coral
dusky surge
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stego has no bleed res

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deino is the only one with that mechanic

alpine plover
dusky surge
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It scales with health iirc

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So stego has like, 6000 blood health or something

alpine plover
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I'm not sure if bleed was changed between the time of the information and now but someone calculated a 45 minute wait between a full pounce worth of bleed and the stego dropping deaf if it's stood still

dusky surge
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Oh yea, bleed does barely anything while the target remains still

alpine plover
alpine plover
golden coral
alpine plover
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One full unbucked pounce

golden coral
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How does one full pounce even get near to killing a stego?! The heck is going on there.. :p

alpine plover
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It doesn't it does like no damage

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What I mean is stego has too big of a blood pool

golden coral
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Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote then, but you did say drop dead, so it got me a bit confused

alpine plover
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Ohhhhhhhhhh

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So he took the percentage of blood lost and times it by the time it took to clot and got the 45 minute answer

golden coral
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Oh, so it would be with repeated pounces then?

alpine plover
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Yes

golden coral
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Oh okay, got it!

alpine plover
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You could only repeat the experiment that way, over the span of nearly an hour 👽

golden coral
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If only we had sandbox.. :p

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Anyway, from what I heard, it took about 15-20 min for a full pack of utahs to down a stego in live branch, with both sides actively fighting, and 2-4 utahs loss depending on circumstances most of the time.

alpine plover
alpine plover
golden coral
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Which honestly sounds reasonable enough timewise, but then I prefer longer hunts and longer planning times before attacking and all that :p

alpine plover
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Yeah I'm not sure if starving packs really have the time for that either lol

golden coral
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@dusky surgeOh btw, since carno groups got limited, anything change on the stego for that?

golden coral
dusky surge
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they said nothing so assume not

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but the carno group nerf is so fuckin' good

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imho

golden coral
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And I guess.. maybe not wait until you're out of food to start a hunt, but that goes for any critter really :p

alpine plover
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A 10 minute fight sounds good enough for active battling but that's a wonky number that's hard to balance around from a Dev standpoint as its all about player interaction

golden coral
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<-- Be baby stego. Wait until you're almost out of water to go to swamp. Find out there's things in the way so you can't just go there directly. Proceed to die of dehydration cause you did not have time to walk around like that.

dusky surge
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With the fact that they reduced the hunger time, sounds like they're supporting the opportunist/endurance style utah

golden coral
alpine plover
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Ah yes a swarm of mini Deinosuchus I love Utah gameplay

alpine plover
golden coral
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3 now

alpine plover
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Better be 3

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Yoo

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I mean that's stopping nobody but I'm not complaining I'm glad

golden coral
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Yeah, for now groups don't do that much, but hopefully in the future they do

hot lintel
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Nothing about Carno damage was fine. Its whole thing is about flipping things over with its charge, what people were doing instead is spam biting things to death because it does so much damage for no reason.

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The main reason devs have given for the Utah bite nerfs was that people were doing too much biting and not enough pouncing, why shouldn't that apply to Carno as well?

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No one ever bothers to charge things because it's much more effective to left click a bunch of times and win.

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Not to mention it bleeds out a Utah or a Pachy in 2 bites. It's not a bleed focused animal, why does it do so much bleed?

alpine plover
hot lintel
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Yeah but Carno was never meant to be an apex hunter. What we need is Utah packs to be able to hunt Stegos, not Carnos. Its whole thing is being a small game hunter. The biggest thing it ever attacks in its concept sheet is a Teno, and even then it does it in a pair

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You don't need the insane damage of current Carno to be a small game hunter

alpine plover
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Your comment about Carno having the same treatment as Utah is kinda misplaced because they're entirely different, one is a pack hunting animal that works with coordination, one is an opportunistic ambush predator. I feel nothing about Carnos damage was bad, it helped it to capitalise on its already extremely hard to use ability, which once used once is very hard to do again to the same animal

hot lintel
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I've always found it odd that players would rather just spam bite than use their special ability. I've always said that a buff to the charge and a nerf to the bite would be good.

barren oracle
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thats a god damn lie

hot lintel
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Making the stun last longer, maybe even giving light fractures to really punish the people who don't have the reaction time to get out of the way, removing the cooldown, which already happened.

alpine plover
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Utah is a brittle animal that's more agile and will be far easier to dodge with the nerf. Pachy can break its legs which will be far easier with its own buffs. Tenonto will finally be good again, its really not a problem

placid reef
alpine plover
hot lintel
dusky surge
alpine plover
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Not as slow as legacy but not as fast as an autoclicker like at the moment

dusky surge
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@pale island you know that pachy takes less damage from headshots than bodyshots, right?

pale island
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I was just throwing out numbers

dusky surge
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also idk

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5 headshots to kill a carno sounds

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really fucking broken

golden coral
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I'm just not sure why it would be different from damage as it is? What am I missing here?

pale island
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Again, i was just throwing out numbers, i dont want that to be the case

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Because then utahs damage against something would affect its damage against something else

golden coral
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Oh wait, you're asking for how the system was, at least from rumors, meant to be

pale island
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Wouldnt*

golden coral
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Nvm, I'm just being dumb, I get what you're asking for now. And yes, that would have been better, though most likely with a lot more work. And I think it was said it would originally be like that, but well, as with so many other things, it's clearly changed.

pale island
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I didnt know that it was planned actually, I was just thinking of a way that we wouldnt have to do the thing of 'buff something because its bad against this thing but now it screws something else over so nerf it again but now it gets beat up by everything' every patch

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I had thought about a armor system at first but armor is just another set stat that could mess things up for other matchups

golden coral
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Yeh, specifying matchups would be great, but we don't have that as it stands and probably won't get it, so oh well, we'll have to make do with balancing with stats :p

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And armor will be a thing with anky and possibly others, so that's coming at some point

spare badger
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@alpine plover While I see your reasoning that nerfing carnos bite force being detrimental to the pseudo apexes matchup, but personally, if they fix pounce like they say they are, Utah should be able to have a much better matchup against Stegosaurus, especially since it's stamina is much better. The real problem here is that we need a non Carnotaurus apex predator.

alpine plover
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Cerato update?

spare badger
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Yes

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When Ceratosaurus is in the game, be will have another mid tier brawler, like teno. Cerato will be a legitimate threat to other dinos in packs.

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But we need a chonky carnivore like sucho or something

spare badger
kindred estuary
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Im hoping Ceratosaurus can pose somewhat of a threat to Stego with smart play.

wise sparrow
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Carno mains when they cant face tank teno anymoreTI_TenontoCry TI_TenontoCry TI_TenontoCry TI_TenontoCry TI_TenontoCry TI_TenontoCry TI_TenontoCry TI_TenontoCry TI_TenontoCry TI_TenontoCry TI_TenontoCry

spare badger
kindred estuary
# spare badger With its grapple hopefully

Im interested to see how they handle it. We know that Cero and Allo lived with Stego IRL, and that there is fossil evidence that the three of them violently interacted with each other.

white owl
wise sparrow
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"Nooooo111!1!1! I'm a carnotaurus I'm the apex I should kill everything by face tanking it!!!1!1! NERF PACHY ITS TO STRONG IT CAN HURT ME ITS NOT FAIR!!!!!1!1"

barren oracle
golden coral
wise sparrow
hot lintel
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Carnos are just so used to being the apex predator, when what they should actually be is a small game hunter

kindred estuary
hot lintel
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Carno really came out at an unfortunate time. It was the first big carnivore to be added to the game and at the same time the fastest dinosaur, with really good damage and decently agile, a recipe for disaster

golden coral
dense thunder
spare badger
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In the thigh. Went straight through and healed over

wise sparrow
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Keep in mind that there was a least one nut shot to a rex by a trike

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Mf killed an entire bloodline

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Probably

dense thunder
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the thing what me bothered in Dinosaur docus and many communitys the most
is the whole
Allosaurus was better then Ceratosaurus thing when there is like no evidence on it at all

the whole you find more allosaurus fossils then Ceras so it was way more common
could also mean .,... Allos where just really good at gettign in trouble all the time haha

placid reef
kindred estuary
dense thunder
kindred estuary
dense thunder
kindred estuary
dusky surge
spare badger
dusky surge
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fair

spare badger
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I rarely use mid when describing Allo sized dinos cause I forget what dinos those include lol

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But I hope cerato can at least pose a threat to sub stegos in packs

spare badger
kindred estuary
dusky surge
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just look at pachy v carno

kindred estuary
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My mistake, i thought you were talking about strength tier.

dusky surge
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nah

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its just size

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cera is smaller than carno

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like 2/3rds its size iirc

spare badger
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Cerato should be stocky, and have some sort of damage reduction so it can take more hits.

kindred estuary
#

I like the idea of a tough for its size scrapper.

I would really like to see it with venom and poison resistance. Then it would really be the honey badger of the island.

sinful cove
#

cc resistance (not immunity) and venom resistance or immunity could make cera punch up a bit

kindred estuary
#

I think if Cerato had some status mitigation, it would really add to its survival without just giving it a ridiculous amount of health.

gusty sonnet
#

I feel as if juvies are targeted way too much. It's almost impossible to escape or live.

untold frost
sinful cove
#

If instead of getting stunned by teno's slam on body shots it got dazed, and instead of getting bowled over by carno's charge on body shots it got staggered, stuff like that, could make up for it being around teno speed and not being bloated on stats

untold frost
#

Yeah, 1 notch down effects

sinful cove
#

And troodons would probably not want to mess with it lol

untold frost
#

It would be cool dynamic. Def would make it able to survive carno encounters, but not necessarily winning them.

sinful cove
#

Also a generally better bite force, tighter turn and bleed resist compared to carno could make it better in the melee despite having a smaller health pool

#

Basically the same kind of stuff tenonto had. Smaller than carno but still more adapted for fighting

untold frost
#

Yeah, allow it to stand its ground aginst it, but also make it better at fighting a tenonto than a carno can.

#

(accounting a carno Nerf for this statement)

hallow spire
#

@remote zinc the only small downside I can think of is it doesn’t do that good in forest but other than that I agree completely lol

unborn iris
barren oracle
alpine plover
#

based

kindred estuary
# unborn iris

I hope they are willing to give the Carno back some strength once the roster expands. I am not sure any one dinos survivability right now is indicative of how they will preform later on.

gusty sonnet
#

So the new meta is spawn killing juvies? I died 5 times to the same group at south. Kinda bs

#

And its almost like people have x-ray, because I should not be seen with where im hiding as a baby. i wasnt chatting or anything. Honestly getting tired of this game.

placid reef
#

well iirc there is a reduction in draw distance if you lower a settings like texture i think, idk if its intended to do that

kindred estuary
gusty sonnet
barren oracle
#

@quick elm Carno = small game hunter

#

It eats stuff smaller than it

alpine snow
#

Anyone else come across this spot? It looks like a blocked off entrance and has bubble sounds

#

-56,541.004, -227,092.625, -30,448.729

barren oracle
#

Foreshadowing!

#

Very cool much excitement

kindred estuary
spare badger
#

when they said pachy turned slow i didnt think it was that bad

#

my baby pachy cant outmaneuver a baby carno for some reason

#

this balance patch cant come quicker

heady flare
#

Who thought that a single Pachy headbutt having a 100% leg break for anyone would be a good idea? I ran into one on accident got my legs instantly broken and then got runned down by stegos

placid reef
#

they will add fracture tiers at some point

heady flare
#

At some point

placid reef
#

Welcome to the isle

heady flare
#

Why add fractures and pachy to the game when it's not even close to finished

#

If one grows to adult it's a near death sentence to run into one

placid reef
#

its finiashed, just a part of the mechanic isnt

heady flare
#

It's not finished then if pachys mechanics ain't

placid reef
#

fractures isnt a pachy mechanic, its part of the fractures, which are finished but they said the ypla nto add later a tier system, maybe it will come at full release we dont know

gusty sonnet
placid reef
barren oracle
spare badger
#

Fractures aren't a pachy ability lmao

#

And I believe in the next patch you will be able to run and stuff.with a fracture

barren oracle
barren oracle
barren oracle
#

just needs animations

spare badger
barren oracle
#

Its quite chonky

#

and if it didnt that would be brutal

spare badger
#

And it's speed still isn't working correctly yet

barren oracle
#

Needs juvie animations yeah

spare badger
#

It's juvie speed is being fixed
And it's getting faster turning overall are being buffed in the next patch

barren oracle
#

Carno nerf next patch lets all cry tears of joy

spare badger
#

Yes

heady flare
# barren oracle Its finished

finished is when every part of that dino is ready
obviously neither are animations or mechanics are all fully implemented in the game atm

barren oracle
#

Utah buff tooo

barren oracle
heady flare
#

dude

#

its a test branch of a game now innit

#

were playing a game

spare badger
#

Key word
Test

heady flare
#

that is in testing

barren oracle
#

Test

heady flare
#

still a game

#

now innit

spare badger
#

Ofc it's not gonna be fully finished

heady flare
#

they added pachy too early imo
one headbutt and legs broken cant even get away

#

you crawl on the ground speed of a snail

spare badger
#

Not really
Most of the time it takes 2

heady flare
#

idk

#

most of the time it took me one

spare badger
#

And besides ambush and charge

barren oracle
#

If they were all there you could fracture walk and run

spare badger
#

Which is being added in the next patch
Do we know when the patch is coming out approximately?

barren oracle
#

Very soon

#

adding pumpkins too :p

spare badger
#

I hope they spread out pachy food
It's literally all at centre and that's about it

kindred estuary
barren oracle
#

Nah its cause spawning is messed up

#

food doesnt seem to spawn anywhere but center

spare badger
#

They said as much

dusky surge
#

@quick elm you realise that carno is a small game hunter and not at all supposed to be killing deinos/stegos, right? Rewarding players for hunting things that will more than likely easily kill them is really not a good idea, even if it's "difficult". It's hard because you literally are not meant to hunt them.

Also carno is a land-based small-game hunter which has one of the worst swim speeds and swim stam drain in the game, why would it be encouraged to hunt something almost 5x its size that lives primarily in water.

silver crow
#

@dusky surgeUnfortunately, the "aminals" that are controlling said Carnos, do not have the inherent interlect of the Carnos for their instincts of survival.
But the same can alos apply to a lot of other beasts too. How often would a Steggo really stand with it's back to a water course if a real, adult Deino was there? After all, an adult Deino being more than twice as heavy as the heaviest Steggo, would simply grab the Steggos tail and drag it to it's doom.
And why would a Steggo defend an already dead animal if it's not even of their species, from being eaten?

dusky surge
#

i fail to see what that has to do with carno inherently not being designed to take on larger prey

#

You literally can take damage from charging a stego as a carno, while the stego remains unphased

silver crow
dusky surge
#

I'm not discussing irl behaviours, I'm discussing in-game systems

#

And currently, carno is inherently designed to be immediately unfavoured in a matchup against a significantly larger species

#

thus, having it hunt deinos and stegos goes against the point of the creature

silver crow
#

@dusky surge I don't disagree with you. I'm just adding grist to your comment by stating other "bizare" playing styles that would not have happened in real life. Or at least, not as we know it.

dusky surge
#

I never referred to real life though

silver crow
#

@dusky surge"you realise that carno is a small game hunter and not at all supposed to be killing deinos/stegos, right?"
Then what was this all about, if it wasn't "real life"?

dusky surge
#

The in-game design? The devs literally said that they purposely designed carno as a small game hunter. To quote their exact description of the creature:

"Stalk the plains as the terrifying Carnotaurus, the absolute nightmare of every small critter as this ravenous mouth-on-legs blitzes across the island. Whilst it lacks maneuverability of the nimble Utahraptor, its insane speed and ability to knock others down more than makes up for it. Be sure to look left and right before crossing the street!"

#

IRL, carno could've hunted bigger game, there's some evidence that could arguably support that, but in-game, it's designed to hunt small prey

silver crow
#

Agreed.

#

But IRL, everything I said, would also have been true. As far as we know.

dusky surge
#

Okay sure but again, I'm discussing game not irl :P

#

And in-game, carno is not meant to hunt big things

#

And thus, those big things should not be on its diet

silver crow
#

So to balence the game, we need the Steggo to not have such a tail swipe and the carno to have a smaller bite force

dusky surge
#

Carno is getting a smaller biteforce next update. I'm not sure what your stego argument is about tho

silver crow
#

Then you've never been on the tail end of a Steggo. A 1,600 kg Steggo (That was their max weight!) would never have caused the damage to an 8,000 Deino as this game suggests it can.

dusky surge
#

What

#

A stego's maximum weight was not 1600kg what the hell are you talking about

silver crow
#

Then how BIG were Steggos. They were not as BIG as the films portaryed they were

dusky surge
#

They were known to be 5-8 metric tons, not 1.6 tons

#

So the Isle is pretty accurate in that regard

#

Are you referring to another creature, like a kentrosaurus, which would be another smaller stegosaurid

mental roost
#

^this

#

Stego was not a small animal

dusky surge
#

Because I can assure you, stegosaurus is pretty accurately weighted in the Isle

mental roost
#

It could've actually gotten bigger than it is in the Isle.

dusky surge
#

It absolutely could've

mental roost
#

Saw some site tossing around the idea of a 7 ton stego(if not higher!)

silver crow
#

I'll have to find out where I got that info from. You're right, the Steggo was much larger. Thanks Google!! 8-((..

mental roost
#

Stenops is the more popular species of Stegosaurus.. while Stegosaurus U.(Ungulatus) was larger... and less used in media for some reason.

silver crow
#

I'm reading up about the Steggo. 5.3 to 7 Metric tonnes.

dusky surge
#

Yea

#

Exactly

mental roost
#

Absolute units

dusky surge
#

Anyway the summary of this argument is

#

stego too big for carno

#

deino also too big for carno

#

should not be on carno diet

silver crow
#

True. If what we're told about from the past is 100% true. And thus, the Stego shouldn't be defending the dead bodies of animals that are not of it's species. If an animal fell that was not a Steggo, they wouldn't hang about to defend it. They'd be off!

mental roost
#

Finding a good way to get large herbivores to piss off bodies will always be difficult...because it's very easily abusable or going to feel like BS.. Aside from that I feel like if they can add a "drag" mechanic sooner or later for Deino ,that'd help.. Not nearly as effective as grabbing but still able to help against larger animals(though if it's 6+ ton stego, it(the stego) should have the advantage the further on land it is)

silver crow
#

On my last flight as a Petra, we couldn't find any fish shoals (As per the norm now!) but I spotted something dead in the water. Swam to it and pressed grab, and proceeded to drag a smallish utah to the bank to eat.

mental roost
#

Huh... weird, rip.

silver crow
#

That Utah kept us alive for the next 30 mins till we eventually DID starve.

sinful cove
silver crow
#

@sinful coveI Boo Booed thanks to Google. But corrected myself.

hollow canyon
#

@alpine plover I genuinely don't understand how you got the impression that Carno's turn rate is getting buffed. It's getting nerfed according to Punch.

#

Pachy is the one that's getting a turn rate buff

dusky surge
#

yea, its def getting nerfed

#

kinda unsure why you like the idea of carno getting a turn rate buff tho, since i was pretty sure the common consensus was that it was too agile, not the other way round

alpine plover
#

That was just an English Bruh moment on my part

dusky surge
#

ah okay

#

Also stego didn't get a stam buff

#

Pretty sure it was a stam nerf

dusky surge
#

@foggy magnet Teno absolutely is not overpowered. Carno, sure, it's a bit overtuned, but teno is really bad atm

foggy magnet
#

@dusky surgeIts damage is a lil, and the hp too bc they are about the same size but hp diffrence are massive (talking about evrima btw)

sinful cove
#

Why shouldn’t tenonto's heavy attack oneshot a flimsy agile raptor with a headshot?

#

I swear this guy just wants tenonto to be fodder lol

#

Is utah buggy? Sure yeah, but tenonto isnt OP

foggy magnet
#

its tail slam should do alot of damage but not 1 shot on head like 2or maby smol chance 3

sinful cove
#

Lmao no

#

Its a headshot, squash like a melon

mental roost
#

Tenoto's bite only does 25 damage as a full grown adult... Utah has 500 health. That's nowhere near 1/4th of a Utah's health. Tenoto even on live branch feels iffy but it has damage going for it at least. It recently got buffed in QA but well-..... it's lag hell from what I've seen.

sinful cove
#

Dont get hit, utahs shouldnt be tanking heavy hits from animals over 2x their weight to the head

foggy magnet
#

anyway that wasnt my main concern its just their hp is way to much or the utha damage is way to low

dusky surge
#

i hope you understand that a giant, muscular tail slamming down on a small skull ain't exactly gonna be non-lethal

sinful cove
#

utha moment

dusky surge
#

why do you say utha

foggy magnet
#

ye it aint but not 1 shot

sinful cove
#

It definitely should be 1 shot to the head

#

Dont get hit in the head, easy solution

mental roost
#

Utah's head should already be hard to hit anyway... alongside well: Tenoto is 1,600 kg and Utah is only 450-500 kg.... which makes it more than double Utah's weight so obviously Utah isn't going to have a favorable match up in a 1 v 1.. Which is why you use pounce in a group.. If it wasn't for pounce being shit(buggy).

foggy magnet
#

ye but they hit you on the tail you go bonk and then they kill you

sinful cove
#

Utah should utilize agility to avoid hits, it isnt a tank

dusky surge
#

okay you want to know how to avoid being one-shot be a teno? Be fast, the tail has a restrictive range and doesn't hit until later in the animation and leaves the tenonto motionless for the move. You have speed and agility, you should be dodging these attacks

foggy magnet
#

ye ik but the utha is till way underpowered

sinful cove
#

Its like a wild dog, they often avoid any hits from their targets and wear them down

mental roost
#

The only way I see a tenoto's tail one hitting a utah is if the utah ran into its ass head first and got smacked.. or lag ville.. I don't see any other way a tenoto's tail could hit a utah's head that isn't the utah's fault.

#

||Outside of lag ville.||

sinful cove
#

Utah*

dusky surge
foggy magnet
#

ye a match up of 2 or 3 uthas are like maby 50/50 chance not like 75/25

dusky surge
#

what

sinful cove
#

Youre a scrappy goblinraptor less than half the weight of a brawler that wields a massive plank of muscle that probably weights as much as you, slamming it down on your skull at full force on your cranium. Its gonna kill you

foggy magnet
#

anyway you guys are prob teno mains yes

sinful cove
#

Nah i usually play small shit

#

Im just sick of raptor and carno mains wanting every herbi to be fodder for their jurassic park rp fantasy

dusky surge
#

i currently enjoy utahraptor the most

#

i rarely play teno actually

sinful cove
#

Last time i played tenonto is because a friend wanted to play it with me

dusky surge
#

Teno's whole shtick is being a menace to kill by small and pseudo-mid tiers, but mid+ tiers are gonna be more of a problem for it. I can see larger land predators trying to ambush it a lot for a meal

#

But utah should not have easy times killing it

sinful cove
#

Its the point of being a brawler

#

Cerato is also supposedly going to be a brawler

foggy magnet
#

and another thing um if you pounce like you impale them with your claws and stuff and that should do lil more damage than haveing to 5 shot pounce a baby carno and 1 shot alt click him

sinful cove
#

Brawlers are supposed to be able to exchange hits

#

Utahs on the other hand are supposed to avoid hits

dusky surge
#

Here's the thing, utah has an amazing form of defence, mobility. You know what's better than tanking a teno tail hit, dodging it and watching as he wastes a ton of stam. Once you get it to panic throw enough tail slams, it's easy game and you can essentially shred the thing

sinful cove
#

Aftican wild dog gameplay

#

Bait and wear down

foggy magnet
#

do you live in africa?

#

i do

sinful cove
#

What about it

dusky surge
#

cool

sinful cove
#

Their strategy is known worldwide

foggy magnet
#

and yea wild dogs let their prey run themselfs to death basicly xD

sinful cove
#

Dont take hits, tire the prey out

dusky surge
#

that's exactly what utahs are meant to do

#

straight up

foggy magnet
#

ye but its just that you refer to them alot

dusky surge
#

Because it's a good irl comparison

sinful cove
#

Because they are extremely successful hunters and a good comparison to another fragile and agile predator

foggy magnet
#

ye i guese

#

but i think we can all agree the carno is way to OP yes

dusky surge
#

That's why it's getting nerfed

foggy magnet
#

like uthas should not match up against him at all but against other dinos

sinful cove
#

Have the changes rolled out for it yet? Because luckily it seems to be getting handled

dusky surge
#

Utahs should still be at a disadvantage against a carno

#

Also seriously why do you call it utha

foggy magnet
#

they should need like a pack of 5-8 to kill a carno

#

bc its a utharaptor

sinful cove
#

No

dusky surge
#

No, it's a utahraptor

#

UTAH

#

not utha

foggy magnet
#

oh you mean spelling ye i am bad at that

#

thx i thought i was spelling it right whole time xD

sinful cove
#

It is a raptor from utah, the state. It is named after the state it is found in

dusky surge
#

much like the african wild dog, which is named after the country it was found in

foggy magnet
#

haha funny man

sinful cove
foggy magnet
#

do you guys also encounter the problem of pouncing thru dinos?

sinful cove
#

Yeah utah is greasy af

#

Even on live branch its janky

#

It just slides right off

foggy magnet
#

ye i have lost so many adult uthas to that

#

xD

sinful cove
#

Some friend peer pressured me in to playing utah, we joined a pack. They saw a tenonto, a good 8 raptors, i knew it was a bad idea so i just watched as they ran in one by one and died like some assembly line at the junk yard. A whole pack dead, only one of them successfully landed a pounce

foggy magnet
#

xD

sinful cove
#

Was funny shit but also pretty sad

foggy magnet
#

ye RIP

placid reef
dusky surge
#

i refuse to believe it

alpine plover
#

let's change utah to uta

#

utasaurus

mental roost
#

Koreanosaurus was discovered in Korea

white owl
#

Nigersaurus tho

dusky surge
#

My God

white owl
#

the one with the funny name

mental roost
#

You can't just say that man, you're gonna get a strike

#

||I kid, I'm joking.||

spare badger
#

Woah Albertosaurus was found in Alberta guys breaking news

vale mulch
#

nerf the carnotaurus or buff the utah pls!!!

quaint merlin
spare badger
barren oracle
#

@raw sparrow bug

hollow canyon
#

I find it funny how Tenonto used to have to tailslam a Utah three times with bodyshots or twice with a headshot and people were perfectly fine with that and yet now Tenonto has to be able to oneshot a Utah with a headshot for... some reason.

#

I don't remember anyone complaining about this match up in update 2 or 3 on Tenonto's side, it's just baffling and I wonder where this belief that Tenonto needs to be stronger than at that time even comes from.

#

Don't get me wrong - it shouldn't be as bad as it's been on the QA branch since its nerf but that doesn't change the fact that it was either the best or one of the best animals in the game for quite some time on the livebranch.

barren oracle
hollow canyon
#

That's not true

#

Utah was Tenonto's only competition up until the release of update 2

#

it wasn't even "a competition" Utah just butchered Tenonto with ease at the time

#

Past update 2 the thing have changed

barren oracle
#

Utah got nerfed making it fair

hollow canyon
#

The moment Tenonto got its CC it's become one of the best animals

barren oracle
#

then utah got broken making it trash

hollow canyon
#

No, it wasn't about Utah getting nerfed

#

It was merely about the fact that Tenonto started CCing things with its attacks

barren oracle
#

Teno technically always had CC

hollow canyon
#

that's absolutely not true

barren oracle
#

Just utah was too small for it not to get knocked to shit

hollow canyon
#

How long have you played Evrima for?

#

No, that's not true

barren oracle
hollow canyon
#

Well, that forever clearly was after update 2 was released because Tenonto's CC was only added to it during that update

#

It couldn't knock things down nor stun them prior to update 2

#

and that made the animal trash

#

any good Utah could solo a Tenonto with... mid-difficult at best

barren oracle
#

Evrima balance has always been a mess tbf

#

always

hollow canyon
#

Past update 2 however Tenonto has become a good and viable pick

barren oracle
hollow canyon
#

In update 3 it went up the hierarchy even further

barren oracle
hollow canyon
#

The only time since then when Tenonto was "bad" was during the QA mechanic testing

#

which isn't even something that ended up being released on the livebranch

#

so it's irrelevant

barren oracle
#

Buff teno me no likey carno

hollow canyon
#

Teno needs a buff if we're talking about its current state on the mechanic test, there's no doubt about that

#

but that doesn't change the fact that this animal's been consistently too good for a long time on the livebranch

#

And it shouldn't be oneshotting a Utah, fullstop

#

it doesn't even take that much longer to grow than Utah does

barren oracle
#

I mean utah has high risk high reward If it works

hollow canyon
#

High risk, high reward shouldn't mean that it gets oneshot by Tenonto - Tenonto isn't a Stego, it's not an Allo or a Pachyrhino to be oneshotting a Utah

barren oracle
#

Thats if the teno is good btw

hollow canyon
#

It is bigger than Utah, sure but it neither takes long enough nor is it big enough to justify it being able to oneshot an animal of that size

#

Utah is basically dead if it gets hit regardless because it is affected by the knockdown

#

and that's fine, but Tenonto should have to finish it off with one more attack

barren oracle
#

Teno has trash stam anyway

hollow canyon
#

It could even be a bite for all I care but it shouldn't just get to onetap it into the character select screen

barren oracle
#

rn its fit for utah slaying and thats it

hollow canyon
#

"rn" is irrelevant

#

I don't care what Tenonto is like in the mechanic test, this isn't the intended state of this animal

barren oracle
#

I got baited into this conversation!

hollow canyon
#

How did you get baited?

#

And no - I'm not saying that Tenonto should have to slam a Utah three times, just to be clear

barren oracle
#

I totally did thats an excuse for me to leave cause im bored

hollow canyon
#

I'm saying that it used to have to do that and it worked just fine

barren oracle
#

BUBUBUBUB

#

SHUSH

#

I shall go now

hollow canyon
#

Feel free to leave

barren oracle
#

NO MORE

#

SHUSH

hollow canyon
#

It's not like you said anything new

barren oracle
#

Tis time for me to go

rich sluice
#

@raw sparrow tbh it should still be noticeable, but you shouldnt see it from across a lake at night y'know?

raw sparrow
#

i disagree, it should only be noticed if a deino is sprinting in water

alpine plover
hollow canyon
#

I don't think TimberJackle is a Tenonto main

#

it's just that most people on discord are annoyed with the state of Tenonto on the QA branch

alpine plover
#

I'm joking

hollow canyon
#

and I'm honestly with them there, it's just that I disagree with the idea that it should oneshot a Utah under any circumstances

spare badger
#

It's a really big and slower attack

hollow canyon
#

There's no reason why it should. The match up was perfectly fine if not heavily in Tenonto's favour ever since it got its CC. There was hardly anyone that complained about Tenonto doing badly vs Utah until 3.75 came out

#

Why does Tenonto need this big of a buff in this match up then?

white hedge
#

On the realistic side yea, headshots should, on balance side idk. I main herb but I can still see how it would be annoying if you were dancing around your prey and the shots lined up just right and they got lucky and one shot you.

hollow canyon
#

I'm fine with it taking out 90%+ of Utah's health but Tenonto, like every other animal in this tier should have to finish a Utah off

white hedge
#

I'll be the first to admit I main Teno and when I'm adult happily take on multiple raptor and carno. It's rare I am the one dead xD

hollow canyon
#

Carno's charge is far harder to hit a Utah with and that ability also shouldn't oneshot it.

#

Yea, because Tenonto in general is a pretty damn good animal on the livebranch

#

It's been that way for a long time

white hedge
#

In QA I'm avoiding it cause man the diet is annoying for it XD

hollow canyon
#

I had fights where I would 1v2 or 2v5 Carnos and go down after taking out at least one of them

#

And I'm hardly a good Tenonto player

#

It's definitely not my playstyle

white hedge
#

But then again I don't have enough knowledge yet. As far as I know there is only one area that counts as swamp so you always gotta go back there to stay balanced.

#

Where as I enjoy stego more atm cause plenty of places in the map count as jungle

hollow canyon
#

If you're speaking about the Mountain Ash then I believe that's the only place where it grows yea

#

At least I haven't bumped into it anywhere else

white hedge
#

Mhm. So I'm still having to move but not feel repetitive like Teno

hollow canyon
#

That's probably something that might be worth leaving in the mechanic test feedback btw

white hedge
#

That and, you're kinda tethered to that side of the map if there is only one

hollow canyon
#

Although I think the devs generally want animals to stick to their specific... biomes/areas I guess so idk whether there's a chance they will change anything about it

white hedge
#

I assume there will be more swamps in the future. I do understand wanting the dinos to be where the tab info says they will be but most the dinos also have like, plains and rivers in their diet too so you could really find them anywhere as it stands. I just hope swamps will be as easy to stumble over as jungle xD

spare badger
hollow canyon
#

^ My point exactly

#

in most cases it's going to die regardless but sometimes another pack member or pure chance might save it

spare badger
#

Yea

#

They're buffing kick a lot too
That's good

hollow canyon
#

I'm not going to comment on any balance changes until I see them in place

#

I'm genuinely hoping they don't end up overbuffing this animal back to its old state

#

or potentially even more based on what's been said so far about it

#

but we will see

dusky surge
#

I mean, we may also see teno become predated more by deino due to its specific preferred areas

#

Teno is pretty clearly becoming more aquatic focused

hollow canyon
#

Is it? I think the only time I swam as a Tenonto during my time on the QA branch was when I was crossing a river

#

Its food is around the swamp, sure, but it never actually required me to get into the water to get it

ocean wagon
#

teno? being more aquatic? TI_LUL

#

Aken is right the only time i ever cross in water is to swim across a river to get my food

alpine snow
#

Call me parkour Pachy

ocean wagon
alpine snow
#

Sorry xD

hollow canyon
#

Unless you remove the stun from it that is

#

Kick could fracture stuff though

ocean wagon
#

thats an interesting pov

#

wait

#

kick should? but not tail slam?

hollow canyon
#

again - it would have to lose the stun however

#

yea

alpine plover
#

tier-based fractures Demo_laugh

hollow canyon
#

I mean it could be the other way around

#

it either loses stun on the tail and gets fractures on it, or it loses the stun on the kick and gets fractures on the kick

#

I'm personally more in favour of fractures on the kick and stun on the tail but whatever people would feel more comfortable with

ocean wagon
#

i think it would make more sense for a teno slamming a utah with its tail to give it fractures

hollow canyon
#

It would

ocean wagon
#

but

hollow canyon
#

From the point of view of realism

ocean wagon
#

how intense would those fractures be?

hollow canyon
#

From the point of view of balance I think it's the worse of the two options imo

#

I don't know how fractures are going to work when they're done

#

as in - fully complete

#

but my guess was that I'd have three kicks bonebreak a Carno

#

That's what I'd go with for starters

#

I think one could bonebreak a Utah

#

while it might seem severe, Utah is typically dead after getting hit with a single kick anyways because it ends up on the ground open for the tailslam which finishes it off so it wouldn't be much more oppressive than what we have now

#

Based on what Punch has said however I wouldn't give Tenonto fractures at all

#

I doubt it will need them after the next balance patch comes out

ocean wagon
#

well thats the thing i have with tail slam. From what tail slam does, it literally smashes utah down onto the ground like someone smacking a bee with a flyswatter. I would think that that would leave a utah crippled even for a body shot. Resulting in it being not being that much better than a one shot tbh

hollow canyon
#

I'm not getting into the realism discussion here because realistically Tenonto would be in a really bad spot in the game

ocean wagon
#

i was getting into realism? im talking about what it does in game rn

#

tenos tail slam literally slaps utah on the floor like a bug getting hit with a shoe

hollow canyon
#

It is about realism - you're talking about the tail with large mass being slammed down onto a Utahraptor and trying to imply that this would cause fractures - you're absolutely right about that but again - that's the realism argument

#

that's what would realistically happen

ocean wagon
#

the devs would need to balance the game whilst trying to have conceptually satisfying results. Like from a balance point utah needs all the help it can get and tenos tail slam not really be that punishing for the utah would just being conceptually and visually bad to look at.

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto's tailslam has been punishing enough for the Utah ever since Tenonto got its CC sorted out

#

There will be quite a few things that will be conceptually and visually bad to look at in the game

#

that's kind of the way it is going clearly

ocean wagon
#

hmmm

#

honeslty the whole fracture concept kinda screws over utah as a whole

#

atleast for the utah v teno match up

hollow canyon
#

I don't think so necessarily, Utah dies from just about anything anyways, does it matter whether it dies because it can't run off after getting tailslammed because it's fracture instead of knocked down?

#

Utah vs Teno match up is just awful for the Utah all around

#

These two animals either shouldn't have been shown off as rivaling one another or Tenonto should've been made closer to its irl size.

#

This behemoth of an animal we got is just too big for Utah to hunt

#

Well, they can take it down in a group but it has to be like 3-4 vs 1

#

and even then they risk casualties

#

against an animal that doesn't even take that much longer to grow

ocean wagon
#

||its almost like the devs are fucking themselves over balance wise from just throwing in random mutant dinos without any real planning||

#

honestly my only suggestion could be to buff Utahs HP but then it would sorta be contending for carnos spot on the niche tree

hollow canyon
#

The issue with Tenonto is that it has to fight off Carno somehow while still being allegedly huntable by Utah. That's just... not a very realistic premise.

#

Tenonto fighting off a Carno already kind of gets into the whole "hardly realistic thing"

ocean wagon
#

1500kg carno would fix all of our problemsTI_Troll

hollow canyon
#

Even at 1500kg(which is not a weight of any Carno specimen there is - this animal simply isn't of that size) it would murder a Tenonto realistically

#

We can't have that happening in the game but it's hard to make Tenonto capable of surviving this encounter in any other way

#

it's too clunky and too large to weave its way out and get away from Carno

#

Therefore it needs to fight it off somehow

ocean wagon
#

^athough its not an accurate size range for carno, the devs have never catered to realism sizes anyway. Balance should come before realism, and if shrinking carno down 300kgs could help sort out a better ecosystem, im all for it

#

not just for utah v teno v carno

#

but for all dinos smaller than 1600kgs

hollow canyon
#

I mean to make it to the point where Carno would realistically not dumpster the smalls(which is what it's supposed to be hunting in the first place) it would need to get so small that it kind of stops being Carno

ocean wagon
#

i think a 1500 kg carno would still body the smalls?

hollow canyon
#

Our Carno is already "kind of" smaller than the irl animal

#

It would

ocean wagon
#

i dont see a problem then?

hollow canyon
#

realistically it would still have the upper hand over all the pseudomids and small tier animals

ocean wagon
#

yes

hollow canyon
#

It doesn't solve anything aside from making Carno less Carno

#

You might as well just upsize literally every other animal to the point where they are big enough to fight off a Carno, like it was done with Tenonto

ocean wagon
#

i think it does? it has a trickle down affect for the balancing of anything thats 1600kgs or less. Think about it, the reason teno needs to be buffed out is because it needs to be able to defend its self against a 1800kg animal. If carno were to be 1500kgs, teno would no longer need to be as buffed out because carnos cant bully them as free snacks anymore. This would mean teno in theory wouldnt need attacks that one shot small tiers like utah

spare badger
ocean wagon
#

oop

#

u right

#

fixed

hollow canyon
#

Do you know how buffed Tenonto is exactly?

ocean wagon
#

wdym? in terms of what?

#

attack damage?

hollow canyon
#

You said that Tenonto wouldn't have to be as buffed

#

I'm asking whether you know how much it is buffed exactly

#

I'm not sure whether you're referring to its damage or size

#

because both are higher than they have any right to be realistically

#

then again - as I said the game will likely not be realistic in terms of those things

#

that's why Tenonto is a fighting machine

#

instead of being an iguanodontid that would rather avoid theropods larger than itself

ocean wagon
hollow canyon
#

How much damage do you think that tailslam should cause?

ocean wagon
#

the only "large" therapod teno could win a fight against in the game would be carno? All other large therapods would murder teno in an instant

hollow canyon
#

Well all the others just dwarf it even in its current upsized state, the thing is that Carno is either larger or about as large as Tenonto with your suggestion

#

I think that realistically the encounter between these animals would go about the same way as an encounter between a leopard and a gazelle

#

with Tenonto being the gazelle in this scenario

#

That's why we can't have too much realism btw

ocean wagon
#

well yeah realitically. But ingame teno is just a shadow of its realism counterpart

#

ALSO!

hollow canyon
#

What do you mean "shadow of its realism counterpart"? Realistically this animal wouldn't be able to use its tail the way it does in the game and even if it could it would be nowhere near as damaging as what the game implies.

ocean wagon
#

i have a problem with teno being pushed out as a brawler

hollow canyon
#

I mean I get the idea and the appeal of a brawler herbivore but Idk if Tenonto was the right animal for that role

ocean wagon
hollow canyon
#

Oh

#

"shadow" typically implies that it's somehow inferior to the thing you're talking about so I understood it as "it's worse than the irl Tenonto"

ocean wagon
#

oh no

ocean wagon
#

but teno being labeled as a brawler was......just a bad play. The only carnivorous dino it could potentially fend off is a carno, as stated before

sinful cove
#

tenonto as a brawler was executed pretty well, imo. its design basically just exaggerates an already notable feature (its tail) rather than completely changing up multiple parts of its anatomy (like they did to spino) and it functions in a unique and not over-the-top manner

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto's anatomy is changed pretty hard actually

sinful cove
#

just because it is a brawler doesnt mean than not squaring up to every single predator makes it bafd. if it can outpace and outlast mid tiers and weaker predators can outpace out outmaneuver it (liek utah does with carno) then it functions well as a brawler for its tier

hollow canyon
#

It's not a very commonly depicted animal as opposed to Spino so it might seem ok but it's not very close to its irl counterpart at all

sinful cove
#

looks more or less like the isle's tenonto

cd188394b6c5b61c0005386d07e30f0d.png
hollow canyon
#

Tenonto wasn't quadrupedal

#

It was a bipedal animal

sinful cove
#

is its anatomy changed a ton just for the stance though? a human can walk on all fours with the same anatomy

#

not a natural depiction of a human but it can do it

hollow canyon
#

Spino's also based on an outdated depiction of it

#

they are both not very accurate

#

Tenonto is also iirc twice larger tahn in real life

sinful cove
#

its based on what they thought was cool and functional

hollow canyon
#

its tail is quite a bit exagerrated to

#

Yea, same goes for Spino

#

They thought it was cool and would be functional that's why we got the Kaiju Spino-zilla

sinful cove
#

the size estimates for tenonto that i see differ between sites

hollow canyon
#

I've had a discussion with Nova and a couple of people about it

#

I wasn't particularly knowledgeable about this animal

#

I know it was big for our standards

sinful cove
hollow canyon
#

but apparently irl its weight was close to one tonne

#

iirc 900kg?

#

Will look it up and ask about it again some time later

sinful cove
#

im seeing some articles saying it was 1 tonne, some saying it was 1.5, one saying it is estimated at up to two tonnes but im sure thats just some speculation

#

it might also partially be their answer to refusing to add iguanadon to the isle

hollow canyon
#

The point is that both Tenonto and Spino got changed up from their irl counterparts to fill the niches that the devs have envisaged for them rather than to make them closer to their irl counterparts and have them get bullied by Carno/Cerato/Giga/Rex/Deino

sinful cove
#

so they just add a smaller iguanadont and make it a fighter

hollow canyon
sinful cove
#

still think the maia with thumbs argument is bs

hollow canyon
#

I agree but

sinful cove
#

like ok then spino is a giga that eats fish

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto is in the game because it was a dev-choice

sinful cove
#

didnt say it wasnt a dev choice

hollow canyon
#

iirc Kissen chose it and each dev gets to choose one animal that gets added to the roster no questions asked

#

yea I mean - one of the devs chose it and they have this rule that every person gets to choose one animal iirc

#

I'm not particularly thrilled about it but I don't think it's a particularly bad addition

#

I'd definitely prefer Iguanodon myself

#

It would fit better and it wouldn't require half a dozen of mental gymnastics to justify how it survives among the other animals

sinful cove
#

honestly iguanadon could still fit there's no reason a large brawler grappler herbivore wouldnt fit in, we have two small iguanadonts so why not the main man

hollow canyon
#

Agreed

#

It might get added when the game is ready and the whole roster is full... idk in some dlc or something

#

That will be ages from now though

sinful cove
#

we have what, 7 ceratopsians who may get in covering all tiers? its crazy

#

but an actually unique big brawler "just a maia with thumbs"

hollow canyon
#

Honestly - that's more of an argument against Maia than against Iguanodon

#

What good is an iguanodon without the thumbspikes?

#

I'd say that that might just be one of the most boring playables one could think of

sinful cove
#

they would have to make it a tanky flight animal... like maia lol

#

so maia is less than what iguanadon would be

#

not that i dislike maia, because i like being a tanky flight animal sometimes

hollow canyon
#

Maia just seems like another relic of the progression era

kindred estuary
#

Its funny real Tento was preyed apon by IRL Deinonychus wich is like a quarter the size of Utah.

sinful cove
#

but if i had to choose between the two id go iggy all the way

#

we have para as the big fat tanky flight animal we don't need two

hollow canyon
#

I've actually heard that it's pretty unlikely due to the size difference between those animals. It's a possibility but... it's quite likely that they were just scavenging and the animal itself got killed by something like an Acrocanthosaurus

sinful cove
#

it can make sense for a bunch of small bastards to take on a 1 ton animal. hate to bring up african wild dogs all the time but

#

could have been a sickly individual as well

kindred estuary
#

I believe that the size difference is what lead to the pack theory for the Deinonychus

hollow canyon
#

It's possible, I'm not denying it but based on what I've heard - it's not very likely

#

iirc it's more so the fact that we found a lot of deinonychi in the same place

#

paleontologists concluded that they likely were a pack

#

that was quite some time ago though, nowadays I believe it's more so thought that they were a mob of animals not so much a pack

#

animals like AWDs have a far greater ability to work in a group and have a social structure than what we presume non-avian dinosaurs to have been capable of

kindred estuary
#

That may be the case that once Tento was half grown IRL it was no longer on their menu , but utah is much bigger thing than Deinonychus.

hollow canyon
#

Yea it is

#

irl it's also just built completely differently

kindred estuary
#

I guess im making the argument again that Tento shouldn't be able to smoke small pack of Utah alone.

hollow canyon
#

Depends on what you mean by a small pack

kindred estuary
#

4

hollow canyon
#

realistically I think 3 Utahs could kill it

#

yea, 4 are definitely a big threat

#

but then again - I believe that it's entirely possible that 3-4 Utahs would be killing a Tenonto right now if it wasn't for the issues with pounce

kindred estuary
#

Possibly

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto doesn't like bleed and Utah does the most bleed in the game

kindred estuary
sinful cove
#

Yeah some predators play the wear-down game very well

#

AWDs can take bo damage taking on a buffalo. They are small and dainty compared to the buffalo but they are also very agile, smart and play the stamina game well

spare badger
#

Dinosaurs are not that smart unfortunately

sinful cove
#

As well as targeting one spot over and over, a tactic that hyenas and wild dogs do

#

Luckily our dinos are controlled by humans lol

spare badger
#

Truee

kindred estuary
sinful cove
#

Stenonychosaurus was apparently very smart for a dino yeah

#

But thats smart by dino standards

kindred estuary
#

I have heard that rex may have been smarter than most canines.

sinful cove
#

So maybe like a seqgull's smarts today. Not exactly stupid but probably not AWD level

#

Where is the rex smarts study. Ive heard a lot about troodonts like stenon but most if what i hear about rex is its senses

kindred estuary
#

I have to look it up, i believe i read it in natgeo, but i think they made an outlandish claim that it could have rivaled a chimp in its intelect.

sinful cove
#

Could be an archaeologist who's horner's polar opposite just simping for rex right there lol

kindred estuary
#

Yeah could be fan fiction

sinful cove
#

Horner is the guy who kept saying rex was ugly and a scavenger and pushed it so hard and then admitted he hates rex

kindred estuary
#

Horner backed off on a lot of his rex hate. He said that was all a thought experiment.

sinful cove
#

Like he actually tried to push “rex was ugly and he smelled so bad”

#

Wait was he trolling all along?

#

Good god he did some damage with it though lol

kindred estuary
#

Yeah ill try to find it, but it really sounds like he was trolling everyone.

#

Paleontologist Jack Horner has been a major advocate of the idea that Tyrannosaurus was exclusively a scavenger and did not engage in active hunting at all,[16][17][18] though Horner himself has claimed that he never published this idea in the peer reviewed scientific literature and used it mainly as a tool to teach a popular audience, particularly children, the dangers of making assumptions in science (such as assuming T. rex was a hunter) without using evidence.[19] Nevertheless, Horner presented several arguments in the popular literature to support the pure scavenger hypothesis:

spare badger
#

T rex was a scavenger

Literally all carnivores are to a certain extent

kindred estuary
#

This is also true

spare badger
#

Rex it makes sense cause bone crushing bite and good sense of smell
It would make it a good scavenger
Doesnt mean it doesn't hunt

hollow canyon
kindred estuary
#

I think that for me, the single strongest evidence that Rex actively hunted is the complete lack of any other medium or large carnivores in the Hell Creek formation. Even Allo which made up 75% of the large carnivore skeletons in the Morrison formation had Cerato and Torvo to potentially steel kills from. Rex would have only been able to steal from other Rex's.

hollow canyon
#

There's better evidence of both Allo and Rex being active hunters - there are fossils that show that these animals either suffered trauma from other animals they'd coexisted with or caused injuries to those animals.

#

E.g. iirc there's an Edmontosaurus tail that bears marks of a T.rex bite which has shown evidence of healing meaning that the animal survived the attack

#

as for Allo - we have the pubis of the one that got hit with the crotch-shot by a Stegosaurus which is a pretty strong indication that it was trying to prey on it

kindred estuary
dusky surge
#

@fresh laurel i still don't believe carno should be designed with utah counterplay in mind. Carno is essentially meant to be utah's primary predator, utah must use its agility to escape, rather than engage in combat

#

also, carno has no bleed resist whatsoever lmao

unborn iris
#

I agree with the idea that utah's main goal with carno should be avoiding it. And when the roster is fleshed out it will work.
But right now I feel like playability should trump the eventual planned dino balance/interaction and to a certain extent balance should be focused around the current roster seeing as it will be years before we get anywhere near the full ecosystem.
Utah should be a threat to carno for now, it should even be a threat to stego in certain situations. But when the actual designed threats to those animals come around it can easily be rebalanced the other way.

fresh laurel
golden coral
unborn iris
#

100% that is true.

#

But I feel like it would benefit the game overall, maybe make people aware that's what is happening and will be changed.

golden coral
#

I'd be okay with limiting stego + speed up growth to make it more balanced for current roster, but I suspect people will then start seeing stego as "midtier" and then we might get an entire debate when rex and others eventually come in and stego gets balanced for that. And so on for all the other critters as well that will be drastically changed around.

#

And yes, this could be worked around if we get clear info on what the end goal of a playable is, and that current state is only temporary

#

But well, I'm inclined to say that kind of info is not very clear to us as players as it stands, so that'd require a good deal more communication from the devs if it's to work

#

@unborn irisJust imagine how people would take it if we limited deino right now, put it down to one of those "small" versions. After all, people already dislike the "weak" biteforce, or used to at least for a good while back then. So yes, I can agree that it would be good for current balance, but only if it can be made absolutely clear that it's temporary, and that players should by no means get used to this being anywhere near the end goal of any playable.

ocean wagon
#

I don’t understand the need to downsize stego and deino. The argument that there’s nothing to keep their populations under control never made sense to me. For stegos case, it’s only untouchable when it reaches large sub adult - adult phase. Stegos are just walking snacks if they’re small subs or juvis. Just hunt the smaller weaker stegos. There’s more than enough brain dead juvi stegos and small sub adult stegos that sit there spamming their 1 call in center plains trying to find other stegos to group with. You wanting to clash with the herd of adult stegos instead of finding easier prey or smaller stegos to kill will only result in your death. Downsizing and nerfing adult stegos simply because they exist sounds like poor balancing. You’re essentially saying “nerf stego because I wasn’t smart enough to target it when it was small and not a gaint murder powerhouse” it makes zero sense. Stegos are one of the slowest dinosaurs if not the slowest dinosaur in ervima right now. If you think it’s a threat just run away.

#

The deino argument is even dumber imo. “There’s nothing to control their population” WHAT??? Literally go drink at ANY shallow water spot and deinos won’t be able to kill you unless you stand there and let them. They are their own population control. Deinos meals consist of people drink at deep water, other deinos, and the occasional dead body they steal from a small group of Utah’s

dusky surge
#

@dusty fable there is utterly no way a teno is having a fair 1v1 with an allo if its meant to rival a carno

#

teno is 1600kg. Allo is 2700kg

#

Also allo would still be food for deinos, it would not be oppressive enough to punish adult land crocs

#

deino still has incredible bleed resist, high health and high damage, and can grab and drag an allo easily

#

also adult carnos losing to stego has nothing to do with the power of the carno and everything to do with its niche. Carno is not at all designed to tussle with stego, nothing in its kit really helps it with this playstyle

#

even if a teno receives much needed buffs, it's not going to be strong enough to take on something over 1.5x its size, especially if its meant to rival a carno which is only 200kg larger than it

ocean wagon
#

A teno? Fending off an allo? TI_Wheeze

dusky surge
#

exactly

#

i somewhat agree with the concept of a middle carnivore, but i'd think we'd need a middle herbi to go with it

#

and obviously let teno actually escape it

#

since again, it won't win a fight against an allo

placid reef
#

i think people just forget how balancing in Isle should work, if you cant fight it you can run from it

dusky surge
#

yea, exactly

#

honestly i think teno should have a really good swimspeed too, since massive muscular tail + water-focused diet

#

would help it get away from threats better

placid reef
#

utah is one of the weird ones since it can fight it as much but kinda also fight off, at least with the current roster, and with it getting a light climbing mechanics too...

dusky surge
#

utah is just meant to be an everything dino. basic animal

placid reef
#

like how in legacy it was described as the best begginer dino, looks like it will be the same in evrima

dusky surge
#

easy to grow, adaptable to different environments, quick, agile, can jump, can work in groups. It's main weakness is probably always going to be how goddamn squishy it is

#

only issue is that it kinda needs the user to at least have somewhat of a grasp on how the whole bleed system works rather than relying on raw damage but whatever

placid reef
#

only skill needed for it would be to know when and how to engage

ocean wagon
placid reef
#

basically, like deino cant outrun a utah but it can go in deep water, not that it needs to but an ex

ocean wagon
#

Yeah or like protoceratops escaping a carno

placid reef
#

well for carno you just go into a forest, especially with this new balance patch

dusky surge
#

yea carno really aint gonna do much against forests anymore

#

horrid turn

#

i hope it sticks to plains more tbh

placid reef
#

i'd still imagine a lot of them will still hvae the carno mentality and follow you there too, but thne, i'd love too se utahs prepare ambushes in forests for them TI_LUL

spare badger
#

@stark knoll (I apologize for the ping) I'd like to hear your thoughts on the suggestion if you have the time

#

Since you seem to disagree with it

stark knoll
#

I don't necessarily think we need something bigger than carno, just other larger-than-utah carnivores. Cera, dilo, bary fit the bill. I also think having some larger herbivores would help, since they'd be able to put up a better fight against a carno ie diablo and kentro

#

Currently the size gaps between the roster are insane, and I don't think we need anything larger than carno until those gaps are filled

sonic flame
#

Yeah adding a larger carnivore like Allo wouldn't really solve the issue

#

Carno would still dunk on everything, and Allo would be forced to either scavange from Carnos, or try its luck vs Stego

stark knoll
#

It would just turn allo and sucho into the new carno

sonic flame
#

and even at nearly 3 tons, Stego is still a tall order

spare badger
#

That's true

sonic flame
#

not even, because Allo and Sucho wouldn't (or shouldn't at least) be able to catch anything but Stego on land

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Teno stands 0 chance in a fight, so it should be able to outrun them

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that leaves them with Stego as their prey options

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Deino as well for Sucho

spare badger
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Yea
It seems like the roster is still too small for this solution to be of any use

sonic flame
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but Deino would most certainly be faster in water, and could body a Sucho in deep water, while on land, even with a 5 ton sucho, it'll probably get ganked by a Stego

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the thing that'll put the brakes on Carno over pop imo is gonna be more things that can take out Carno, that Carno is incentivized to try anyway

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animals like Kentro and Diablo, things that Carno will actually try to attack (unlike Stego) and will be able to take out Carno in return

spare badger
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Yea
I was attempting to solve the fact that stego is nearly untouchable
But Allo would need other prey too
So I guess we can't do that either

sonic flame
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Stego being untouchable is just the byproduct of its competition atm

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and anything big enough to deal with an adult has 0 other options

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i.e. Bring in Acro, and it has 1 prey item

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so now we also gotta bring in a bunch of other prey items

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Honestly best thing to do is just keep slowly working up the roster, Stego is here too soon, but I wouldn't want to create a problem where now we have a borderline untouchable carnivore as well

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cause at least Carno is subject to Pachy and Teno and Stego if it gets too cocky

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something like Allo, or even worse, Acro/Sucho would really only be culled by their own stupidity/starvation

spare badger
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Well sucho would get fish and deinos too
But can't take a stego on

alpine plover
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I think temporarily downsizing Stego and Deino is interesting

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It wouldn't be outright vaulting them

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But keeping them at a level where there's not a gigantic gap in the roster

spare badger
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They just should've put in kentro and bary

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Over stego and deino

dense thunder
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well they should have done in my opinion start with the small animals first
like Hypsi ,Dryo ,Herrera ,Troodon Homalo ,,Proto etc and then slowly add more and more bigger dinos