#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 295 of 1

ember osprey
#

But if it gets me the nutrients I think I should be able to kill it to get said nutrients

dusky surge
#

thats like saying cera, the dino that eats everything, should be able to kill rex because rex can be on its diet

#

no, that's not how it works

ember osprey
#

If there was nothing than Stegos and something that's not on the diet, what am I gonna do?

#

Yeah but or a different diet systems gets implemented (as some suggested in the feedbacks) or I think that this is not how it should work if I NEED to get those nutrients

#

That's what I mean, I get what you say and it's totally right but atm (based on nutrients) that's not how it should work I think

#

If the diet was working different then no problem

dusky surge
#

Diets are just weird atm

ember osprey
#

That's what we agree on. Based on them now I think we should be able to kill everything on the diet or we'll never get the nutrients we need

dusky surge
#

Ehhh, not with deino

#

Deino is meant to eat everything it can

ember osprey
#

Atm, for example, if blue nutrients are retrieved from hypsie and stego, if there are no hypsie I won't get the nutrients

dusky surge
#

IMO, removing stego from deino's diet is just weird

ember osprey
#

No not removing it, but making the deino able to kill it exactly as any other in the diet

dusky surge
#

Also disagreed

ember osprey
#

Not easily for sure, but now it's impossible

primal dove
#

A deino shouldn´t kill a stego but it should be able to, if that makes sense

#

The risk should be really high but so should the reward be

ember osprey
#

I get what you say, with that "ideal" diet system what I'm saying is wrong (the fact that I should be able to kill it if it's on the diet) but for how the diets work NOW I think we should

dusky surge
#

carno is on utah's diet

#

which is fuckin' stupid

ember osprey
#

That's stupid too

dusky surge
#

since carno stomps utah so goddamn hard

ember osprey
#

I'm not talking about deino in particular, I talk about it because I tested it for a while

#

But globally this thing it's wrong IMO

#

Exactly as carno shouldn't be on carno diet if it causes muscular spasms etc

primal dove
primal dove
#

@craggy pewter Problem with utah is not its low bite force or speed but rather carno turning too fast and pounce not working properly, utah needs more health and a tiny bit more bleed on bites and pounce

craggy pewter
#

sure it needs pounce but i really think it should be buffed cuz its a weak lil chicken rn

#

maybe health yh, but 2 or 3 carnos shouldnt be able to catch it

primal dove
#

yes it should defenitely be buffed but buffing it in bite force and speed wouldn´t help it that much

craggy pewter
#

so yh maybe speed and attack speed

#

hmm we'll see my bro

primal dove
#

it also has way less stam than a utah, utah is an endurance hunter while carno is an ambush predator

#

but yes utah defenitely NEEDS a buff

craggy pewter
#

difference of mobility beetwen carno and utah should be more palpable

placid reef
barren oracle
#

Carno-Utah talk

#

ugh carno should shit stomp with the ambush

#

but a smart utah makes it to a forest and escapes

#

not worth fighting

wise sparrow
#

I wanted to elaborate more but discord said no

primal dove
#

I think carno really just needs a turning speed and a slight blood pool/hp nerf

primal dove
placid reef
#

it would alomso make a lot of sense, for short i just want momentum in the game, i feel if you charge fats enough and pounce as a utah should have a chance to topple the dinosaur (takes in criteria weight and stamina of it), and a puncing/charging dino can fall, slip etc if they fail to topple or latch to the dino or turn to fast

#

an ex would be the herra concpet art where it gets launched of the teno

primal dove
#

yea that´d be great, also some people wanted many utahs to be able to pin stuff bigger their size, I have to agree that this would screw up balance but I think a pounced victim should defenitely be slowed down making it easier for utahs to pounce on

placid reef
#

i feel like punce should work based on the weight and stamina of both dinos, just like some people talk about deinos lunge should work

#

ofc without the tug of war part

#

also wouldnt be like how utah pins small creatures, more like a stun or something similar

#

herra concept works great for this idea

unknown.png
#

and carno should def not drift when turning that fast but slip imo

primal dove
#

@crystal stream Stego should kill deino on land however when it´s on shore or in the water a deino should clap it,yea

barren oracle
#

Mmmm

#

i mean deinos can stun lock in a 2v1

#

and its not like steg should be in the game

sinful cove
#

Deino shouldnt be in rn either but here we are stuck with this disaster roster

vagrant mural
#

Living in a society rn

ocean wagon
#

“Stego is like an ant to deino”

#

Like

#

How do you even engage in a conversation with a statement like that

sinful cove
#

Didnt know 6 tons was ant sized compared to 8 tons TI_LUL

slim dragon
#

Okay it was a bad joke, I admit

primal dove
#

tbh if people want rex,giga,spoon etc. to kill a stego then a deino should too, the only thing is that it´s bound to water bc it is way stronger in it and has BIG advantages while on land it gets screwed up by a stego. That´s what makes deino so unique, it´s like any apex but in special enviroments it´s way stronger and in others it´s WAY weaker. I´m not saying a deino should clap a stego like a mosquito but it defenitely should have the potential to kill it in said enviroments.

#

They defenitely have to change smth. I´m fucking tired of seeing stego megaherds with pachies deathmatching deinos at oasis and the whole place just being a gigantic war zone, getting a mental crisis of this shit ngl

wise sparrow
#

Sounds like a...

primal dove
#

like a what?

unborn iris
primal dove
#

Skill doesn´t exist in Evrima, it never did TI_Troll

hollow canyon
# primal dove tbh if people want rex,giga,spoon etc. to kill a stego then a deino should too, ...

You might think that but the devs clearly implied that they don't view Deino as an animal in the same league as Rex, Spino and Giga. Matter of fact Deino's best option against Spino is supposedly to swim away so there goes that whole argument. It is an apex in the ecological sense(for now) but it's pretty clear that it's not meant to be in the same league as the trio of apexes that you've mentioned there.

#

I do think that the fight between Deino and Stego should perhaps be a bit less one sided but it would have to come at a cost to Deino in other aspects.

wise obsidian
#

Who the fuck is X'ing tenonto buff, lmao

dusky surge
#

carnos

quick anchor
#

*trolls

Source: am one

dusky surge
#

*carnos

Source: same thing

quick anchor
sinful cove
#

Carni mains that are probably the same ones who nagged the devs into nerfing teno to begin with lol

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto definitely needs a buff, it's not fun fighting it as a Carno and it's not fun fighting Carno as a Tenonto right now. It's just a really bad animal all around(although that thing where Tenonto tailslams you so hard that it crashes your game has to go, if that's supposed to be the buff that it was meant to receive then that's not the way to buff it lol).

dusky surge
#

idk man seems like a strong way to deal with predators

#

just make their game crash

wise obsidian
#

I dont know about you aken but i'd rather the nerf be reverted, not a new buff introduced.

#

The carno vs teno matchup was never more perfect than in 3.75.

sinful cove
#

as long as carnos can walk off slams with enough hp left over to try again teno is gonna get bullied

#

as of now tenonto cant punish carno even with a whole barrage of slams

wise obsidian
#

Me and a friend fought 3 carnos as 2 tenos- both of us died, none of the carnos did, although we tail slammed them plenty times- in the face.

sinful cove
#

the old slam damage was closer to what teno needs than what it has now

#

carno should be out of the fight after getting slammed

#

if it takes the whole barrage

hollow canyon
#

Not really

wise obsidian
#

It feels much easier to pack with carnivores compared to herbivores- so when you take carno packs into account, and the fact that teno was made to be a defensive herbivore, its nerf doesnt make much sense.

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto needs to be almost exactly halfway between those two

sinful cove
#

right now it outbrawls tenonto, it should need its charge to gain any advantage but atm it laughs off tenonto's "heavy" attacks

hollow canyon
#

It does 250N right now, it used to do 360N

sinful cove
#

once a carno tries to brawl a tenonto and gets hit by the slam barrage it should fuck off

hollow canyon
#

300-310 is pretty much where it should be after the HP nerfs that every animal had received in 3.75

#

360N is just way too high of a damage output for an animal this small considering the health pools of every animal right now

wise obsidian
#

Tail slams should be devastating, thats the point

sinful cove
#

tenonto is slow and shitty at hiding, it needs to deter carnos before they even attack, make them think twice

hollow canyon
wise obsidian
#

It's a long tail filled with muscle. It's fat and huge. There's a lot of power behind it.

dusky surge
#

Man I just want teno to swim better tbh

sinful cove
#

its just fodder as long as the slam barrage doesnt take the much faster carno out of the fight

hollow canyon
#

How much damage do you think it should do then?

wise obsidian
sinful cove
#

it doesnt need to kill the carno, but it should damage it so much that the carno fucks off at least

dusky surge
#

also i'd be fine if the tailslam and kick did more damage if that standing turnrate was reduced a bit, since a primary issue is its really hard to attack from a direction without the tail instantly facing you

hollow canyon
#

I want numbers, we need specifics

sinful cove
#

it should end the fight because carno should be charging anyway, not brawling like an idiot

wise obsidian
#

You say tenonto used to 100-0 a carno, but in a fight i had in 3.75 vs 2 carnos all of us had to back off because we were pretty hurt. It was an even match up.

#

An entire pack would be harder to take on.

hollow canyon
#

Yea Tenonto used to 100-0 Carno if you knew how to do it

#

I mean... if you think that a single Tenonto should be capable of taking an entire Carno pack on then I don't think there's much of a point in continuing this conversation

wise obsidian
#

It should, its literally a defensive herbivore. Outmaneuver those defenses. Not to mention carno can just knock it over.

hollow canyon
#

I'd say that a single Tenonto taking on 2 Carnos on is questionable at best, completely absurd at worst

wise obsidian
#

How is it questionable

#

I'm not saying it should be able to survive a pack

sinful cove
#

if the carnos are dumbshits then they deserve it

wise obsidian
#

It should scrape by vs 2 carnos at least, which is what happened

sinful cove
#

a smart carno should be able to 1v1 a tenonto but in qa you have absolute beetlejuice tier carnos clapping tenontos and entire utah packs

hollow canyon
#

No, it shouldn't, Carnos are larger, take longer to grow this should be a 50/50 fight with both sides risking death there. Tenonto shouldn't be surviving a fight against 2 Carnos

hollow canyon
#

Right now the game isn't balanced, but it wasn't balanced in 3.75 either

sinful cove
#

even in 3.75 smart carnos hunted tenontos

#

a ton of idiots died because tenonto had the advantage but it should have the advantage against a carno who tries to brawl

wise obsidian
#

^

hollow canyon
#

Saying that Tenonto had the advantage over Carno in 3.75 is like saying that Carno had the advantage when the MT came out

#

it's being euphemistic at best

#

Tenonto almost doubled Carno's damage there

dusky surge
sinful cove
#

and? if the carno wasnt an idiot like 90% of them are they could still 1v1

hollow canyon
#

If Tenonto was bad enough that it couldn't land a single attack - sure

dusky surge
#

a carno should be obviously allowed to win a 1v1 if it plays not like a goddamn fool

hollow canyon
#

if it landed a single attack the fight should've been over right there

dusky surge
#

aka utilise ram

wise obsidian
#

I personally feel a 1v1 should be in the tenonto's favor

sinful cove
#

it really should

hollow canyon
#

It should be at best slightly in Tenonto's favour

#

like in 3.5 or 3

dusky surge
wise obsidian
#

Imagine having a lesser chance while you're alone, while carnivores are easier to find and pack with

sinful cove
#

if carno lands an ambush charge then he sould be better off but in a brawl tenonto deserves to clap carno's cheeks no dif

#

carno should be brawling

#

it should get absolutely clapped trying to brawl actual brawlers in its tier

dusky surge
#

if we let teno get easily stomped, as a brawler, by carno, then cera ain't gonna stand a fuckin' chance when it comes with handling the carno plague

hollow canyon
#

This is all theory - again, what do you want Tenonto's buff to be about exactly?

untold frost
#

I personally think that a carno face tanking a tenonto should more likely lose than win. But a carno who knows how to ambush, and utilizes it's charge should be able to take it out. (Making them useless in forested areas, but strong in open fields)

dusky surge
sinful cove
#

tenonto and cera should be carno control to all the idiot rocke trex mains speeding around the map attacking anything that moves

sinful cove
#

it deserves a darwin award for such a stupid decision

untold frost
#

I think the matchup overall SHOULD be favorable for Carno if the tenonto is in a clearing. But that a tenonto should be favorable in rocky/hilly/forested areas

sinful cove
#

it should only be favourable to carno if the carno lands an ambush and playes correctly

untold frost
#

^

#

i don't disagree

dusky surge
#

Teno should also be favoured near water. Horrible swimspeed on carno whereas teno seems to be more water-focused

untold frost
#

Carno relies on it's first strike

sinful cove
#

as long as herbivores are forced in to certain biomes for diet they shouldnt be disadvantaged by those biomes

hollow canyon
#

Alright, I'm out - you're all free to keep throwing meaningless, empty phrases around. I'm gonna wait until you start putting out some concrete values and ideas.

sinful cove
#

should rely on if the carno is a dumbshit or not

untold frost
#

How I envision it at least, Carno's charge should be strong. But it's bite weaker. To encourage more charging and guerilla tactics on prey

sinful cove
#

yeah right now it has both a strong charge and a good bite due to the gross bleed application

wise obsidian
sinful cove
#

carno is a better bleeder than utah and a better brawler than tenonto. absolutely disgusting

untold frost
#

I do think Carno's charge should have cleaner mechanics like pachy does. Where you can HOLD right click, before max speed. And that it will automatically put you into charge phase once you reach top speed.

wise obsidian
#

Utah cant do shit to teno rn because its stupidly nerfed and very weak, so it doesnt really come into play here

untold frost
#

Rn, carno's charge is wonky.. You can't really tell when you're at full speed and when it's the perfect time to right click

sinful cove
#

utah has been trash for some time idk why they cant figure it out

hollow canyon
sinful cove
#

so carno claps utah packs and it claps tenontos

#

whether 330 is too much or not is kinda opinion based considering you seem to want tenonto to let carno off with enough hp to keep fighting

wise obsidian
hollow canyon
#

330N Tenonto is hardly any better than the absurd 360N it had before. That still oneshots a Utah with a headshot and dumpsters a Carno with ease in a single combo.

wise obsidian
#

If you allow a teno to combo you that's kind of your fault

sinful cove
#

it should oneshot utah with a headshot lol

hollow canyon
#

The devs can verify those stats as much as anyone else can

sinful cove
#

that tail probably weighs about as much as a utah

hollow canyon
#

no, it shouldn't oneshot a Utah - it should have to attack it once more to take it out

sinful cove
#

you should most definitely oneshot a utah with a headslam from your strong attack

hollow canyon
#

Absolutely not

mental roost
#

A Carno should be punished HARD if it gets tail slam barraged

hollow canyon
#

Neither should Carno kill it with charge

wise obsidian
#

In realistic terms it would literally crush its skull.

hollow canyon
#

that's just awful design

untold frost
#

I honestly think that Weight should be renamed to something along the lines of "Combat Capability". That way you can adjust the "WEIGHT" without it feeling inconsistent to the size, and then adjust health to different numbers accordingly to make balance better

wise obsidian
#

But then again utah is weak right now so that already happens

sinful cove
#

utah should have the agility to avoid getting slammed in the first place

#

if it gets head slammed it deserves to get a trip to selection screen

#

just because utah is trash rn doesnt mean i want it to be while teno gets fixed

#

both are dog water

hollow canyon
#

Utah's main issue is the fact that its pounce doesn't work

wise obsidian
#

Not really, its bite nerf also factors

hollow canyon
#

but that doesn't change the fact that livebranch Tenonto's damage was just absurdly too high for it

wise obsidian
#

Utah cant even take down a teno in this MT, which is supposed to be weaker, haha

hollow canyon
sinful cove
#

back before utah was wrecked, even in live branch right now theres large packs of them. it is light built, agile and faster than tenonto. it should get its skull squashed like pumpkin against tenonto's slam

spare badger
#

Body shot shouldn't kill probably

wise obsidian
#

If you're dumb enough to run head first into a tenonto's ass, yeah, you should kinda be one shot if not close to 2 shot

sinful cove
#

things like utah and troodon should fight with the intention of not taking hits to begin with

#

yeah body should should probably just put it out of the fight for fear of getting hit again

hollow canyon
#

It should be close to a oneshot

spare badger
#

With pack mates distracting a teno, one body shot shouldn't kill a Utah
Get close yes

hollow canyon
#

but it shouldn't be a oneshot

spare badger
#

Yes

sinful cove
#

head shot should be a darwin award, body shot should just make it fuck off

dusky surge
#

i dont think its entirely unreasonable for utah to die quickly to teno. I like utah, but it's whole shtick is that it should be fuckin' HARD to hit

sinful cove
#

exactly

spare badger
#

Yes

hollow canyon
#

It should die quickly to a Tenonto - and dying in 2 hits is dying quickly

sinful cove
#

things like utah and troodon arent built to take hits, but they sure should be built to be able to avoid them if theyre smart

hollow canyon
#

Back before 3.75 you needed 3 bodyshots from the tailslam to kill a Utah

spare badger
#

Troodon too
But Utah should be beefier than that
At least one hit to the body

#

Minimum

hollow canyon
#

I'm going to repeat that: you needed 3 and nobody complained about Tenonto doing poorly vs Utah

sinful cove
#

one body hit is fine, it should survive that with a big fat ouchie

#

but a head shot? roadkill

hollow canyon
#

You also needed 2 headshots to kill a Utah

#

and somehow nobody complained about Tenonto doing that poorly

spare badger
#

Teno was shafted
I used to be able to stroll up to gangs of carnos and have a good fight

hollow canyon
#

^ That's probably why it got shafted

spare badger
#

Carno still needs an agility nerf

sinful cove
#

tenonto isnt worth it now unless you have a kink for pain and suffering

spare badger
sinful cove
#

tenonto rn is basically what magy is feared to become

spare badger
#

Teno cannot

dusky surge
untold frost
spare badger
hollow canyon
#

A pack of Carnos shouldn't be running from a Tenonto

spare badger
#

And carno is too agile as it is

hollow canyon
#

Even in 3.5 I could run into a pack of Carnos 2v5 with one another Tenonto and typically at least 2 Carnos would go down

untold frost
#

A carno should be scarier to a tenonto than the other way around if in open areas.

sinful cove
#

only if it lands charge

untold frost
#

A carno should be able to disengage easily

hollow canyon
#

That wasn't a good thing btw

#

that was pretty broken in my book

spare badger
#

Carnotaurus should always be afraid of a Tenontosaurus in a one on one

sinful cove
#

the fact that carno CAN disengage easily is why it doesn't deserve the melee advantage

spare badger
#

Exactly

untold frost
dusky surge
#

in 3.5 i got into a 2v4 with 4 tenos as a carno, we only lost one carno and they lost every teno in a close range encounter

hollow canyon
#

My bet is that they were tailslammin each other

#

Instead of taking out a Carno that got tailslammed

untold frost
spare badger
#

Bruh
I have been in a 2 v 5 with someone who doesn't play teno and I killed all 5 carnos

hollow canyon
#

In a 2v5 with two Tenontos that have at least one brainlobe working properly at least one Carno would be going down

sinful cove
#

ive had the misfortune of herding with other tenos who friendy fire tailslammed

hollow canyon
#

The moment any CC lands that Carno should just die

spare badger
untold frost
#

Keep in mind that Carno is the "APEX" right now. He will be outcompeted when the burlier, but slower carnivores are implemented.. Stealing their meals and the like. Carno's speed and charge are important

sinful cove
#

adding the fastest land predator as the standing apex was a garbage idea to begin with

#

it shouldnt outbrawl a tenonto in any terrain

untold frost
spare badger
#

If they put sucho in during update 3 like they planned it may have helped aliviate the problem

sinful cove
#

it has the charge for a reason, same reason utah has pounce (even though devs broke utah) and same reason deino has lunge

#

it is supposed to use it

spare badger
#

Sucho being the more terrestrial spinosaurid of the 3

sinful cove
#

wasnt bary historically the most terrestrial of the trio

#

it has the longest legs of any spinosaurid

spare badger
sinful cove
#

and it apparently predated some iguanadonts

spare badger
#

If they put in bary it would also fit in with the "small dinos only but only sometimes" thing they have

sinful cove
#

cerato would have also been a better choic ein carno's place

spare badger
sinful cove
#

since bary is getting reworked

#

since bary is getting a remodel and cerato isnt afaik

dusky surge
#

Cerato seems interesting. Slowish brawler dino which has a good swimspeed, it basically seems like a carni version of teno

sinful cove
#

which is why it woula paired better

#

it makes more sense for a cerato to tussle with tenos than carno

spare badger
#

What they could've done with sucho
Is (Temporarily) put terrestrial dinos on its diet so it can make carnos fuck off until cerato and the others came in

sinful cove
#

they are both brawlers right

spare badger
#

Yes

#

Teno and cerato are bully brawler type

spare badger
#

Except they made teno swim slow

#

Even though it's supposed to swim fast and live in swamps?

dusky surge
#

I really wonder how they're going to do the brawl of cera, since a key thing with brawlers is either being able to control how your opponent moves so you can make it easier to attack them and prevent them from attacking your open flanks (pachy) or protect themselves from any side to avoid attacks (teno)

dusky surge
spare badger
#

Cerato will have that tear special ability
Wonder how that'll come into play

sinful cove
#

teno has that big fat plank of muscle on its ass it should be able to propel itself a bit with that while swimming i'd think

dusky surge
#

Cera seems like a grappler based on concept art and WIP anims, making it a creature that might hold the opponent still and continue doing damage as it grips tight. We can see cera constantly biting at the neck in concept arts

untold frost
#

I would like to see Cerato be implemented soon. I wanna main it. (Even when allo and all the larger carnivores get added later on)

spare badger
#

So if you come close it'll grab ya
Similar to a stun

#

Will make it good at one on ones

sinful cove
#

So like utah probably but more damage than bleed based and also a snare

spare badger
#

Yes

dusky surge
#

Cera can be see pulling at a magy's neck, biting at another cera's neck and biting at a deino's neck, and in the animation, we can see it grabbing onto a stego and ripping at it

#

If it isn't a grappler I'll be shocked

spare badger
#

Imo even tho I don't like Allo all that much adding it would be smart, giving us an apex for the others and stego and carno something to worry about

sinful cove
#

I hope cera can grabb small deinos and pull them inland

untold frost
sinful cove
#

Like somebody wanted carno to do before

dusky surge
#

look at this man

Ceratosaurus_Concept.png
#

so much neck biting

spare badger
#

Yes

dusky surge
spare badger
#

In the magy concept too

dusky surge
#

and then there's this

untold frost
#

oh wow

dusky surge
#

WIP anim that was posted by Kissen

#

It really kinda seems like a grappler

spare badger
#

Yes
Grab and shake big guys
Grab and throw mids
Grab and pull smalls

untold frost
#

Isn't Magy gonna be toxic and gross for most predators to eat?

Forgive me if Im wrong

dusky surge
untold frost
#

And isn't Cerato gonna be tolerant to rotten food? @dusky surge

spare badger
#

Yes
Quetz should eat it
Seeing as hatzegopteryx was magys natural predator

spare badger
dusky surge
#

Cera eats whatever it literally does not care

untold frost
#

Wait, does that mean that Cerato will have rotten magy meat in it's teeth?

#

Causing it to have a sceptic bite (Indirect venom)

dusky surge
#

It'll have rotten literally anything in its teeth

#

It eats rotten shit like a goddamn goblin

untold frost
#

lol, that'll be interesting

stark knoll
untold frost
spare badger
#

I doubt it

spare badger
dusky surge
#

yee

spare badger
#

Ic

#

You test shit?

dusky surge
#

yea

spare badger
#

Ic

#

They really need to put a bigger carnivore in the game
It's kinda necessary now
Stegos are nigh untouchable (we should've gotten kentro)
Carnos are OP
And having the small game speed demon be the apex is stupid

#

Cerato will hopefully fix the roster a bit so I hope they get that in sooner rather than later

#

Do devs even read the feedback? I honestly cannot tell

sinful cove
#

they may read it but it doesnt sseem to change anything at all

#

if they were already planning or considering something that happens to show up in feedback then its just sheer luck and not actual response to feedback. that's certainly how it feels at least

spare badger
#

I did suggest once that they make a seperate chat thing where they put ideas from feedback we and they like.

sinful cove
#

Ay same

IMG_9930.png
#

Theyd rather be ghosts though i guess

alpine plover
#

Don't know why the same point has to be revisited Aken considering suggestions we're already made to resolve the 100-0 situation for stun combos

#

@hollow canyon

#

By your account, even if we were to keep the current damage values but up the amount of uses for it's attacks. Literally the same situation occurs in that insta kill combo, just longer

#

The only way to solve that isn't to nerf the inherent attack damage value. But by adjusting the stun and it's restrictions

#

Teno should 4-5 headshot Carno's as a powerful deterrent
Utah should be avoiding hits and punished severely if they slip up, yet also tearing up and swarming Teno's if they dodge and land their bites efficiently

#

I'm in favor of upping the damage values for the Utah bite, and keeping it's hp the same

#

It'd give it a hard to play, rogue class appeal

placid reef
dusky surge
#

Yea

placid reef
#

if cerato comes before sucho that'd be a great substitute seeing as it will be out equivalent of Jaguras, ad nwe know what they do to caimans

#

personally i kinda like the idea of sucho beeing more aquatic and less land and cera more land and less aquatic while both beeing hybrid

placid reef
alpine plover
#

Hard to say

#

But from the pounce I've tested, it was still really shitty even when they landed

#

Have to wait until it actually works to hard confirm though

placid reef
#

ye thats what i mean, last time i played was in u3 and even then it was kinda shit

alpine plover
#

Kinda crazy for an ability that can straight up suicide you that people are vehement about it being somewhat powerful in combat

placid reef
#

both bleed and damage were very low, even when executing a hunt flawlesly it took some time to kill a teno (mind you this was some time ago and with 2 adult utahs)

placid reef
#

but this is TI

dusky surge
alpine plover
#

Considering Teno's can end you in one attack
Or Carno's can swipe bite you twice and it's gameover
Pounce is really bad at applying bleed and it's number's advantage for it's pack hunter niche

placid reef
dusky surge
#

Cera is like teno

#

They live near water but not in water

#

They use water to help get away

placid reef
#

still more capable in it than the majority of animals

alpine plover
#

In the context of the game yes

#

But I wouldn't tout water capability as a surefire option unless you'd have the appropriate size to not be instant Deino chow

#

They'd be very specific situations where fast swimming applies

placid reef
#

true, while cera gives Jaguar vibes it not bigger thna a deino (unlike how a jaguar is around the same size as a caiman)

#

but still, if it can actually ho for the head and not the neck, im really excited for that

alpine plover
#

I'd temper expectations
Pounce is still in a busted state and it's likely a showcase of all animation based abilities to come

placid reef
alpine plover
placid reef
dusky surge
alpine plover
#

At this point estimates are impossible

dusky surge
#

VERY TRUE

alpine plover
#

Game reeks of legacy code

#

Hope they figure it out

placid reef
#

downfacing nostrils in water TI_LUL

dusky surge
#

I honestly think fast swimspeed is an interesting mechanic

#

Everyone is just too deino paranoid

alpine plover
#

It's cool, just hyperspecific

dusky surge
#

I think with more semi-aquatics, people looking for that playstyle will stop playing deino

#

And start playing other things

placid reef
alpine plover
#

I'd sure as hell be playing Beipi over Deino any day

dusky surge
#

Well yea, but that's a given for those two

#

Teno and cera are special as they're terrestrials who aren't as afraid of water and can use them well

alpine plover
#

Deino weight moment

placid reef
#

personally i'd gravitate to austro bc dromeosaur

alpine plover
#

copium

dusky surge
#

I hope sucho and cera start being prominent deino baby killers

alpine plover
#

It'd be nice if Austro could climb
But Herrara would outperform it all metrics in that

alpine plover
placid reef
#

well isnt that one of Ovis role? egg and baby killer?

dusky surge
#

Sucho is probably going to be stream based, staying near shallower waters

alpine plover
#

6ish

alpine plover
alpine plover
#

should be a push for it to stay on the ground imo

dusky surge
#

I think hypsi would be better than a 5 tbh

placid reef
#

true

alpine plover
placid reef
#

if its whole lifestile is nesting in tress it should be more adept for that

alpine plover
dusky surge
#

Utah apparently will be able to climb to an extent :P

alpine plover
#

I hope it's one of the concepts that don't exist 🙂 👍

#

or if it does.
No one ever uses

#

I think Hypsi should be a slight slower climber than Austro
But Austro should not have the same leisure at fall damage

#

I don't want to see climbing docktah utahs

#

It'd incentivize less camping Hypsi's, and they'd be encourage to hop down

alpine plover
#

It'd create more interesting counterplay

#

austro should use a large amount of stam when climbing

placid reef
#

austro isnt (at least in game) much of a climber but more acuatic so i'd say should be around hypsi in terms of capabilities to climb

alpine plover
alpine plover
placid reef
#

ye, more focused on beipi as they will share rivers

alpine plover
alpine plover
#

Then just hoping a Herrara never comes around for hours on end

merry fiber
#

why does deino have a diet now?

placid reef
#

minmi based, it can literally do everything

alpine plover
#

Minmi in Deino mouth

alpine plover
#

Minmi still has the ability to run

placid reef
#

nah we need minmi ballon TI_LUL

alpine plover
#

lol

#

Crunched Minmi

placid reef
#

megalania concept art still look deranged imo, at least the face does

alpine plover
#

I understand a good portion of minmi thoughts are "in Deino's mouth"
but you're only going to be attacked by a deino constantly is if you stay in the water 24/7

alpine plover
alpine plover
#

Things get shadow patched

placid reef
#

like bruh...

unknown.png
alpine plover
#

Megalania kinda sucks

placid reef
#

yea

alpine plover
#

Mono should've been a burrow invader

placid reef
#

didnt expect they can fuck up a monitor lizzard

alpine plover
#

We already have two consistent venomtypes

placid reef
alpine plover
#

Oh waddup Mirag

#

Person usually has good takes

sinful cove
#

Austro would look dumb af climbing a tree, velo should do it instead

alpine plover
#

That's where you're wrong

#

Actually, hold up

#

I haven't seen Austo in a minute

sinful cove
#

Austro has itty bitty arms and is lanky af

alpine plover
#

Someone get an image

alpine plover
sinful cove
#

It would be like a heron climbing a tree (not flapping up it)

placid reef
alpine plover
#

Let's just say we'll believe it can

placid reef
alpine plover
#

We just have to encourage Austro to do better

placid reef
#

imo it be better if it could jump and cling onto big trees and glide

unknown.png
#

like microraptor but on steroids

sinful cove
#

The smaller and stockier velo can still hunt hypsi and look good on a tree

alpine plover
#

Why not just put all of them up in trees

#

But have Herrera dominate that realm

sinful cove
#

Not necessary tbh austro is a fish guy

alpine plover
#

I'd say Climbers are pretty rare enough

sinful cove
#

Maybe the juvies could climb but the adults dont need it at all

placid reef
#

austro is made to be the main small game hunter in rivers

alpine plover
#

We have like 2-3ish

placid reef
#

to compete with beipi and kinda proto and minmi

sinful cove
#

Velo is much better suited to scale trees than austro

alpine plover
#

It'd be a missed opportunity to have the trees void of stuff happening in them

placid reef
#

well herra and hispy will be always in them

#

they still need to go to the ground for food and stuff

sinful cove
#

Velo has better arms and a stockier body to kick up the trunks of trees better

image0.jpg
placid reef
#

and iirc much smaller

sinful cove
#

Yeah better size

#

Not hauling as much weight

#

And still very well good enough to kill a hypsi

alpine plover
#

I think a lot of the smalls should hybrid or do better in multiple environments to give them more appeal and interactivity than the mid and apex tier counterparts

dusky surge
#

Extra smalls having more gimmicks is a good idea imho

sinful cove
#

They should, but austro doesnt need to be climbing trees, the adults at least

alpine plover
placid reef
#

austro and beipi have land and water, dryo, minmi and proto have burrows

alpine plover
#

Austro should too, just have two better playables outperform it at that

#

Like Velo, and Herrara

sinful cove
#

Velo seems to be wanting for a niche, so making him a “you can't hide from me” decent climber and burrow raider for smalls would be nice

#

Meanwhile austro is already our heron

placid reef
#

every other dino has a nieche except velo and debatably dryo

sinful cove
#

Dryos niche is being worse at his legacy job as a throwaway troll dino than ptera and hypsi

placid reef
#

basically

alpine plover
#

I think Austro is gonna have it rough imo, being outdone in both water and land, even in the small tier roster

dusky surge
#

Velo being a climber + burrower seems cool imho

#

Or burrow invader

#

To be more specific

alpine plover
#

Can't troodon burrow invade?

dusky surge
#

Yea

placid reef
#

plus austro is still kinda small, even in concept it showed going for proto burrows iirc

alpine plover
#

Damn

#

Rip Velo

sinful cove
#

Troodon may be too large for some burrows if hes his concept size

alpine plover
#

I don't think it is

#

He looks tiny asf rn

dusky surge
#

I think velo could arguably be able to build tree nests (which would be sick imho)

sinful cove
#

Velo could steal and modify burrows

placid reef
#

ye astro has a second nieche other than heron

unknown.png
sinful cove
#

Not able to make his own but if he boots out or kills a burrower he could claim and nest in a burrow

alpine plover
#

I think both Velo and Mono are both gonna be struggling for a niche

#

I wouldn't be surprised if they both get cut or included lazily until a later date

sinful cove
#

Bloodhound mono seems like a good idea ive seen passed around

#

Maybe the devs will snag it

placid reef
#

mono could be a more adept tracker beeing able to smell much better even in bad weather, smth like this maybe

unknown.png
sinful cove
#

Was arboreal herrera originally a community idea or a dev idea

placid reef
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

alpine plover
#

Hope so, but it's gimmick can only push it so far

dusky surge
#

Honestly, I think velo able to nest in trees or in burrows seems awesome as a dynamic animal

alpine plover
#

I don't know

sinful cove
#

It could both avoid danger and selectively track with its gimmick tho

#

Could make it worthy if existing

alpine plover
#

I'm not convinced it's enough to make them interactive enough playables

placid reef
#

imo velo could easily fill the role of current day coco, what do you think

sinful cove
#

coco?

#

Cuckoo?

placid reef
#

cuckoo, ye forgot how it was in english lol

alpine plover
#

What is cuckoo

sinful cove
#

Velo the steal your shit dino

golden coral
alpine plover
#

Oh

placid reef
# alpine plover What is cuckoo

bird that makes that noise and steals nests and makes the birds of that nest take care of its baby which kills the birds eggs

alpine plover
#

Then you could justify it being interactive enough with tribals and mercs too

placid reef
#

basically nest parasite

alpine plover
#

stealing items, foods, tools

sinful cove
golden coral
#

I hope not, not a fan of that idea :p

sinful cove
#

Not sure what else our big nosed friend would get

#

Maybe the devs have something thought up already

placid reef
sinful cove
#

Yeah witcher senses was pretty nicely done

#

Some of it would be op in the isle but a lot of it would work well as a unique gimmick

golden coral
alpine plover
#

Okay enough about shitty lazy inclusions that require gymnastics

placid reef
#

when it causes bleed you can track creatures like in the witcher on any weather, since i heard weather would affect tracking

alpine plover
#

How about Noct, or venom herbis

sinful cove
#

Kentro just straight up impales you tho he aint venomous lol

golden coral
#

Nocturnal herbis? Yes please. I thought that was a given if we have nocturnal carnis. I'd like a nocturnal "ecosystem" as it were.

sinful cove
#

How would you me immune to getting impaled or smashed up by equal/larger sized dinos unless you yourself are a roid machine

alpine plover
#

Specifically the top row

golden coral
#

I believe you're thinking of taco there possibly :p

#

Poison quills!

placid reef
#

kentro already is our porkipine bc beipi got the penguin treatement, i dont think it needs poison

sinful cove
alpine plover
#

That's a sick idea actually

#

More based than Magy

placid reef
#

dwarf sauropods are just big yikes

sinful cove
#

I had an idea for him to be semiaquatic and his venom would be stamina based that deters attacking and pushes predators out of the water

placid reef
#

especially when your nieche is to die

sinful cove
#

Makes stamina use also drain oxygen maybe

alpine plover
#

Funny food moment

#

Venom that damages or disables stam repair would be huge for it

sinful cove
#

We coulda gotten baja or shuno but nooope we got the sauropod who literally needed a safe space to even exist

placid reef
#

literally anything bodies it and its evolution is just fuck around and find out TI_Wheeze

alpine plover
#

I want all playables to be viable

sinful cove
#

It went extinct as soon as a land bridge opened to its safe space island

alpine plover
#

But goddamn Kissen and the Allo situation is just an etched meme in the game's history

placid reef
#

yep

sinful cove
#

“Magyarosaurus won't be weak or slow” well we have already seen that it's slow so they better get on the steroid injections asap

alpine plover
#

"Why would we include a playable in a ecosystem it can't survive in"

#

No proceeds to elaborate

placid reef
#

Faster than allo

alpine plover
#

Gotta take dev screenshots and brainstorm what the fuck they meant

sinful cove
placid reef
#

didnt know wanting to play TI meant i have to decrypt texts

alpine plover
#

Figuring out roster decisions takes a degree

placid reef
#

and a nobel prize for the mechanics

sinful cove
#

Magy is one of those dinos that if somebody had put it in a suggestion a while back it would get laughed out

alpine plover
#

"Split Roster!!"
"Okay bye, time to not explain until a mountain of community piles on"

alpine plover
#

So much good ideas

placid reef
#

we could have got majunga the dino with a running nose but no, dwarf dino that dies

majungasaurus-56a253f33df78cf7727478d0.png
sinful cove
#

And they went with the burger king midget sauropod

alpine plover
#

Nah, it's essentially free food but spoiled

sinful cove
#

“We dont want iguanadon its just maia with thumb spikes” adds magy

“Ankylosaurus is a bad animal” adds magy

alpine plover
#

If they didn't then Allo and Alberto would

placid reef
#

true but still, they wanted an out there dino, majunga is so much better

sinful cove
#

Majunga is the weird longboy abelisaur right

placid reef
#

ye with a 24/7 cold

alpine plover
#

Anyways

#

We got off track

#

Gotta return to balance

sinful cove
placid reef
#

even if it didnt make sense in Spiro, it would bridge the gap between rex and allo so well

0b1485be8d2c00d8e3a62e6416e189c30e183a0d.png
alpine plover
#

Tiny ass

alpine plover
#

But imo, the mid tier roster is filled enough

sinful cove
#

You know who is based. Australovenator

alpine plover
#

Wouldn't mind Styraco or Pachyrhion

placid reef
alpine plover
#

That's if they make Dibble fodder

sinful cove
#

I hope both of them make it in, hell just let all 7 ceratopsians get in

alpine plover
#

I have a feeling they will

#

Evrima feels like a it's on a trend where all the piss poor from Legacy dinos are getting the spoon fed treatment, and the previous powerful ones are feeble like wind

sinful cove
#

Carno wasnt all that bad in legacy he scored lucky here

placid reef
alpine plover
#

Sucho, Acro, Theri, and (Pachyrhino?) seem enough of a bridge to me

#

Para too

#

Bastard looks gigantic from the size charts

placid reef
#

which one is for rex? since it'd make sense to be in the same class

alpine plover
#

I don't think there needs to be direct correlated playables

placid reef
#

para wasnt all that powefull, iguanodon would make more sense for some hadrosaur apex or smth of that sort

alpine plover
#

As they have sub adult phases to adult now

sinful cove
#

Iguanadon would be atep-up from teno because they are the same family

#

It isnt a hadro, maia, para and shant are hadros. Dryo and teno are iguanadonts

#

So we have a small tier and psuedo mid iguanadont

placid reef
#

god i hope maia isnt the speed demon it was in legacy lol

alpine plover
#

I hope it is

sinful cove
#

I liked speed demon maia but it shouldnt be as offensive

alpine plover
#

I want to play as a big deer

placid reef
#

true but beeinag faster thna utah and literally tank it and it cant do anything seems kinda busted

sinful cove
#

It should be more defensive, if it headbutts while tunning it should skid to a halt. It should be more focused on stationary kicks and stationary/running shoulder checks

alpine plover
#

Evrima has different combat

#

The maia bite or headbutt seems like it'd tickle

sinful cove
#

If they make maia slow its basically just a morbidly obese tenonto with no tail attack or claws lol

alpine plover
#

And with the agility system, Dilo's and Utahs can juke it

sinful cove
#

Just make it less offensive and its crazy speed and relative tankiness is fine

alpine plover
#

Fighting with Maia would be precarious

placid reef
#

imo carno just needs agility nerf, i made previously an ex for that

alpine plover
#

Carno shit on time

#

Okay, so I agree it should hunt prey as good as it does

#

But it's main contenders

#

Utah and Teno

#

Do piss poor at any type of deterrence

#

Combating it is not viable in almost any circumstance

placid reef
#

mostly bc both teno and utah are shit rn, and carno can just turn at the speed of light while going at the speed of light basically

alpine plover
#

Leading to hilarious levels of one sided matchups

#

Carno can straight up brawl a Utah pack of 6

#

Carno can make groups of Teno into swiss cheese with drivebys

placid reef
alpine plover
#

Honestly

#

Has anyone mentioned that Carno should have poor bleed resist?

placid reef
#

afaik, no

alpine plover
#

That'd make landed Utah pounces pretty devastating

placid reef
#

maybe like legacy pachy

alpine plover
#

And Teno claws and kicks more efficient

placid reef
#

not legacy cera bc thats just bad

alpine plover
#

Just exploring ideas

placid reef
#

utah pounce bleed just feels very anticlamactic

#

normal bite is fine imo just pounce, its ass

alpine plover
#

We all know pounce needs fixing and possible numbers upped
And Teno needs it's damage back

#

But even so

#

Carno would have no real definitive weakness

#

Which is why I suggested poor bleed resist

placid reef
#

carno bleed is honestly a great idea, since rn theres no risk and just reward

alpine plover
#

Yeah, hitting and running packs of Utah would now be dangerous

#

If one or two pounces land even briefly, it's time to disengage

placid reef
#

still a slight nerf to its turn is still neded since it can still ctahc up to a utah with ease

alpine plover
#

And pounces shouldn't be landing on Carno anyways

#

It has all that speed and damage

#

So it's kind of it's own fault

placid reef
#

ye its hard to hit pounces even back u3 since its the fastest and has way to fast turn speed so theres no opening to do that

alpine plover
#

Might as well post it only to get shit on by Carno mains or people with foresight

placid reef
#

lmao

#

honestly bleed resistance is something i totaly forgot about and could be the key to incentivise dif dinos what its best for them to hunt

alpine plover
#

Prepare for the horde of X's

placid reef
#

i mean, my feedback on carno only got positive feedback, maybe bc i kinda included a nerf/buff for utah as well

alpine plover
#

I still think Utah should get buffed lol

#

There's zero compensation for how much nerfs it caught

#

No increased bleed, nibble bites, etc

sinful cove
#

I think it would be best to fix it first so it could be buffed more accordingly

placid reef
#

i really feel the pain for utah, also since he's my fav

alpine plover
#

I'm a Utah/Teno player

sinful cove
#

Hard to tell just how adequate his pounce is when it doesnt work in the first place

dusky surge
#

@alpine plover carno has no bleed resist

alpine plover
#

So I got fucked over these recent changes

dusky surge
#

deino is the only animal in the game with bleed resist

sinful cove
#

Bleed resist is kind of a relative term for how well a dino handles bleed in general i think. Yeah it doesnt have any mechanic in place

alpine plover
#

You could make it more vulnerable to bleed

sinful cove
#

But it also doesnt really flinch at bleed rn

placid reef
#

stegos, deinos and carnos can just shrug of bleed like its a fly

alpine plover
#

Pretty sure one Carno bite almost wherever makes the Utah bleed to get tf outta there

golden coral
placid reef
sinful cove
#

Carnos have shaving razors for teeth rn or some shit they deal so much bleed

#

Better bleeder than utah who is supposed to pump it out

placid reef
#

they did make deino very resiliant to bleed which means its something they already have

alpine plover
#

I'm not sure

dusky surge
#

Bleed is directly linked to damage, the more damage, the more bleed, except for specifically pounce, which does the most bleed in the game with a full pounce

sinful cove
#

They made deino resistant to bleed as an alternative to an aquatic needing to wallow

alpine plover
#

They either made Carno into a pseudo Dilo, or Utah is just fucked at any breathe of bleed based attacks

#

I don't think it's impossible currently

dusky surge
#

So bleed health is linked to actual health

#

And bleed damage is linked to actual damage

alpine plover
#

They could try and tinker with the values

#

Reducing the bleed health without touching the actual health values

placid reef
alpine plover
#

Making Carno vulnerable to bleed would encourage hit and run tactics

#

As bleed piling on discourages brawling, showcasing it's clearly not hitting and running

dusky surge
#

Personally, I still don't think utah needs methods to deal with carno. Carno really feels like it has a decent place as the big nightmare predator to utah

alpine plover
#

Hit and run Carno's still fairly dominates

dusky surge
#

And this is coming from someone who loves playing utah

alpine plover
#

I just don't think brawling Carno should

dusky surge
#

Brawling carno can be nerfed by nerfing turn radius and altbite

placid reef
#

honestly carno should just be very weary of utah pounce but rn its just like swatting a fly for it

#

i like a bleed weakness since it would make carnos go for dinos they know it can kill very fast

alpine plover
#

I'm all for Cera brawling and dominating Utah
And some matchups should soft or hard counters others

dusky surge
#

Personally, bleed weakness doesn't make teno any better against carno

#

Carno beats utah for another reason, mobility

#

It's so fuckin' fast

placid reef
#

ye i was more looking at carno utah, teno needs some other fixes

dusky surge
#

That it's hard to actually pounce

alpine plover
#

But when it does pounce(when it works)

#

It's mostly negligible

placid reef
#

i've pounced carnos back in u3 and literally did nothing, 4 utahs pouncing 1 carno (all adults) and 2 of us died and rest ran off

alpine plover
#

And Carno's usually can still dominate if played accordingly

placid reef
#

so even landing one doesnt feel rewarding since they just shrug it off, and dont get me on the carno pack limit if its still 4

alpine plover
#

Just that brawling shouldn't be it's forte, and it's an alternative than slowing down it's base turn and alt attack

#

Besides, it still has no weakness

placid reef
#

i think after i saw carno pack increased i just left the isle for some time, 3 carnos already dominated 6 utahs and now its a 4v6

alpine plover
dusky surge
#

I genuinely think a poor turn radius and inability to properly protect flanks is a decent weakness

#

I'm fine with carno's turn radius while sprinting

#

But when it's standing

#

And walking

placid reef
dusky surge
#

It turns faster than a pachy, significantly so

alpine plover
#

I think that's a fair weakness for Carno to have as well

dusky surge
#

Frankly, weaken its ability to protect its flanks and back, and that's INFINITELY more faithful to how carno should work

alpine plover
#

But I think my suggestion is enough to send most of the player base to actively in real time be shadowed by the anxiety of it's weakness. Similarly like Teno and Utah
It'd be more intense and open room for counterplay for future roster inclusions

dusky surge
#

For example, if an allo runs from behind you while you're resting, your best option should be to sprint the hell away, rather than turn and fight

#

Honestly, a worse turn radius could achieve the same thing. Stand still to fight some utahs, uh oh, you can't turn fast enough to protect your sides and get pounced and bled much faster

alpine plover
#

It's hard to say

dusky surge
#

And this weakness is offset by the fact that it can run the hell away from anything that may threaten it

alpine plover
#

But then you could argue that both of these changes would discourage stationery play and encourage hit and run plays

#

So there are two solutions to the same problem

placid reef
#

what i said there for utah could also be added to carno to a degree

alpine plover
#

I just think my idea has a bit of depth to it

#

Carno can find itself in the position of brawling, but leave itself open to things like counterplay

#

So there'd be punishment and direct varying results for engaging your Carno in that manner

placid reef
#

i still want dinos to be able to slip, i just cant fathom the fact that every dino here, at least the theropods, can jut go at their speeds weight and agility and never fall stumble, look at animals rn and stuff like that happens so often

alpine plover
#

You could find yourself mauling circling Utah's while knowing that them stacking bites or landing pounces sends that adrenaline feeling

#

A Carno would now be able to make a mistake, such as overcommitting, and feel a great sense of danger

#

What makes it different from Legacy Cera, is Carno's raw speed, it could disengage any encounter at any given time

#

While retaining agility for brief brawls

#

I'd be inclined to personally play Carno if danger was present

placid reef
#

personally i love the risk and reward type gameplay and utah is the only one that ever had it, now its just so shit no matter how much i love it i just cant go an play it

alpine plover
#

Yeah, that's what I mean

#

Carno's now actively thinking "I gotta close this fight quickly as possible" would add sorely needed depth

#

It'd help tie in with it's ambusher hunter personality

solemn lake
#

I think utah punce has to, be buffed

#

pounce

alpine plover
#

Making it's combat style based on blitzing
And on staggering, and ganging on Allos

#

It'd essentially also be anti Utah where Utah's must draw fights out as long as possible

#

There'd be counter v counter dynamics at play

primal dove
#

I think carno should have like the lowest bleed resistance for the mids/pseudo smalls to balance out its speed and dmg

placid reef
#

yea

#

smth like legacy packy bleed seems reasonable keeping in mind its the fastest and has good damage and health

alpine plover
#

Yeah, it has enough strong traits to justify a strong weakness

#

Legacy Pachy and Legacy Cera didn't have enough positive strengths to justify their weaknesses

placid reef
#

legacy cera bleed just should not be in the game, packy bleed seems more forgiving as a strong weakness

#

there should still be some effort needed to bleed a carno, not just a lowsy bite

alpine plover
#

I agree, it wouldn't make it invalidating as well
Carno charge can still stagger and use speed to somewhat combat an Allo

#

Carno can still use it's speed to hit and run large Utah packs

#

It would just need to account for a real weakness in the back of it's head when engaging

placid reef
#

and since dilo wont be a bleed focused dino anymore it wouldnt be a problem for balancing

alpine plover
#

Yup, bleeders would be far and few

placid reef
#

utah via its pounce mainly

alpine plover
#

And Carno can always decide to just nope out of a fight

placid reef
#

and the other dromeosaurs

#

dilo should still have better bleed than avg since its teeth werent that secure and known to loose some while hunting, having teeth stuck in your leg for ex def would cause more bleed

alpine plover
#

True, but I'm guessing it's a venom all star

#

Apex range lethality

placid reef
#

ye, bites during night and causes halucination so it can hunt it easier

#

while still havinh above adequite bleed but not on utah pounce level

alpine plover
#

Anyways, I'm interested to know any faults with my idea

#

I'll let it sit in the oven

placid reef
hollow canyon
# alpine plover By your account, even if we were to keep the current damage values but up the am...

No it doesn't? Quite literally, Tenonto cannot combo a Carno from 100 to 0 with the current damage output(matter of fact it can hardly do anything with the current damage). Nerfing the inherent damage value absolutely solves the problem as Tenonto simply cannot put out enough damage to bring the Carno down in a single combo.

Also - regarding the statement that Teno should 4-5 headshot Carno: that's what should be happening now with the current(nerfed) damage of the Tenonto. Tenonto is 5 shotting a Carno with headshots assuming everything registers as intended.

As for Utah I genuinely disagree with Tenonto oneshotting it. Same goes for Carno, neither of those animals should be taking out a Utah with a single attack. If Utah gets hit by a tailslam it should be as good as dead if Tenonto can follow that up with any other attacks, however Tenonto should have to dedicate that one additional attack to actually take the Utah out. I'm also in favour of upping the biteforce of Utah btw. I simply believe that its hp should also be upped, to 500 in this case.

placid reef
# hollow canyon No it doesn't? Quite literally, Tenonto cannot combo a Carno from 100 to 0 with ...

your ideas for teno are good so im not gonna go onto them but for utah, simply upping its bite and health wont do much, neither carno nor teno should 1 shot it as you said, for teno (in the case that tenno gets buffed like you said) just making it a bit bulkier and deal more dmg with the bite could do the trick, but for carno that just isnt enough, carno has more health, deals more damage, is faster and agile enough to keep up with a pack of utahs, in this cased its more of carno dominating utah in every way with no significant drawback, utah needs to drag out the fight for as long as possible, waiting for an opening, easy enough on teno with it using a lot of stam but on carno its simply not a viable and consistent strategy, its pounce is what is in dire need of a buff, either more bleed like Nacen put it previously or more damage potential

hollow canyon
#

Utah's issue isn't just not having health and biteforce

#

The animal is simply screwed by its own mechanic not working properly

#

the stuff like getting hit by Stego while being latched onto it

#

or bugging out mid air

#

is what truly brings Utah down

#

for an animal that entirely relies on its special ability to have this very ability bug out half the time and lead to your death is rather problematic

placid reef
#

carno v utah is the same deal as cerato vs allo in legacy, yes cera was a bit faster than allo but allo just had so much more potential and not a glaringly bad bleed resistance, carno does everything uat hdoes but better and while beeing more forgiving

hollow canyon
#

Utah in general should just work differently, in the normal circumstances it's the animal that should be able to threaten Stegosaurus in a pack(which is a really poor match up for Carno) the issue is that this simply doesn't happen because of how pounce is right now

#

If Stego stands on a slope that's it - Utah can't pounce it

placid reef
hollow canyon
#

Whenever you can pounce it you're still likely to die when you bug out

dusky surge
#

IMO, utah would be fine balanced if it wasn't bugged to high hell

hollow canyon
#

I sort of think so but with an asterisk

#

I think that Utah's health is still slightly too low

dusky surge
#

All utah needs is more tools that give it the ability to endure and a functional pounce

placid reef
#

all of what im saying is in an ideal scenario of the pounce working as it should, like in previous updates, if i would'd take that in mind then i'd just 24/7 ramble about smth that is clearly a problem and i'd get nowhere

hollow canyon
#

Upping it to 500 would literally do no harm

dusky surge
#

which is a huge change

placid reef
#

it also needs a way to actually be a threat to carno since rn its nothing more than a mere bug to it

hollow canyon
#

I thought about suggesting a buff to Pachy's weight/hp as well

placid reef
#

pachy would get more good from a better turn speed ngl

dusky surge
hollow canyon
placid reef
hollow canyon
#

It's not if the Utah actually wants to get away

#

Whenever I play Utah the only situation where I die to Carnos is when I attempt to fight and kill them

#

I've never gotten killed after deciding to run away

dusky surge
#

Even with carno's silly agility, utah's higher stam, ability to jump and turn quickly without losing momentum can still help it in chases

hollow canyon
#

Utah just doesn't die to Carno if it cares to live, it will die if it tries to fight back, as it should

dusky surge
#

Yea

#

I actually like the dynamic tbh

hollow canyon
#

I'm fine-ish with it

dusky surge
#

Utah packs can kill big thing, carno can kill utah pack, big thing can kill carno

hollow canyon
#

I honestly suspect that Utah's pounce would be borderline too good if not outright too good if it wasn't for its bugs

#

It definitely doesn't need more buffs to the bleed

dusky surge
#

The bleed is insane

#

Trust me

hollow canyon
#

I'm well aware of that

dusky surge
#

The bugs are holding it back but

hollow canyon
#

It got buffed so many times by now that it's just

#

absurd, I'm pretty sure no other thing applies as much bleed as the pounce does

dusky surge
#

Yep, nothing

#

Not even the thagomizer

placid reef
#

hm, it got buffed? i only heard of nerfs, interesting

hollow canyon
#

How lol? It was just getting buffed for quite some time now

#

since update 3 came out, bleed on pounce was only receiving buffs

#

the only "nerfs" to it were regarding the damage output

placid reef
#

well after i saw they increased carno to 4 i kinda left evrima for a while so i missed some updates

dusky surge
#

Mathematically, a utah can bleed out a trotting teno in less than 100 seconds with a full pounce, assuming the teno keeps trotting and doesn't stop moving. Sprinting would accelerate this process further

hollow canyon
#

In general likely the only thing keeping Utah down are the bugs

#

I outright think the bleed might need a nerf when those bugs get sorted out

dusky surge
#

100 seconds may seem like a long time but that's pretty crazy. Basically means that you HAVE to buck or subject yourself to a slow death

placid reef
#

hmm, well now that ik that my image over the situation is dif

dusky surge
#

Not to mention the new wallow holes

hollow canyon
#

Bucking got nerfed anyways

placid reef
dusky surge
#

no joke, bugless utah will be a MENACE

#

people are not ready

placid reef
#

you say since u3 it started gettuing buffs? want to go back and see for myself all of them

dusky surge
#

not since U3

#

since U3.5 was the apex of utah

placid reef
#

aight, gonna look a bit now too refresh my knowledge of the balance of it

dusky surge
#

U3.75 was when utah got its big nerf

#

@ruby seal No seriously, that was when everyone was whining about utah lmao

#

3.75 was the moment utah got thrown from being a high-tier animal to a low-tier

placid reef
#

well yea, you learn something new everyday, this def bring me a totaly dif perspective to utah rn

dusky surge
#

Seriously U4 utah isn't a bad animal, it's a buggy one, which makes it shit

placid reef
#

ye my last time using utah as pre u3 i think, and back then it stood no chance, dmanage wise or anything, maybe lucky to run

#

now i have to think if what feedback in general is still valid

ruby seal
#

Utah is a buged / nerfed animal and its competitor the carno is simply too strong

placid reef
#

bugged, like that wasnt obvious

dusky surge
#

Bugged, yes. Nerfed, no. It's been receiving tons of buffs, it's just really bugged

ruby seal
#

everything oneshot utah, carno, stego, teno, pachy and deino.

dusky surge
#

Yea

#

That's kind of the point of utah

ruby seal
#

yeah but actually no

placid reef
#

utah is high risk high reward, stego and deino make total sense, carno has to connect a charge to get the free hitm teno has its own problems rn, and packy is a roid rage with leggs

ruby seal
#

being oneshoted by a deino or a stego or a allo is cool, but being hitted by a pachyu is a dead secure, carno too

placid reef
#

isnt packy slow af? and not agile?

ruby seal
#

but seaky as F witha huge hitbox?

#

and the alt click always make the utah fall down, that is a dead sentence

hollow canyon
#

Carno doesn't oneshot Utah, neither does the current Tenonto btw

placid reef
#

iirc they just stun it and can get a free hit

wise sparrow
#

@alpine plover I think that this is an amazing idea however does teno do enough bleed to deter carno from face tanking it? Tenos only bleed attack is near its weak point so I can see carnos just sitting on their face spam biting.

placid reef
#

the bleed was more for utah, teno just needs its tail to be a bigger threat

wise sparrow
#

Yea teno v carno is possible but it needs to land almost every shot and if there's two you expend all your stam killing one now your fucked cause teno doesn't have enough stam to kill more than 1 solo

alpine plover
alpine plover
alpine plover
#

Y'know

#

The bugs just kinda invalidate concrete evidence of whether or not this playable is truly strong/weak

wild cove
#

I mean Utah is meant to be a pack hunter, not a soloer

#

But agreed that the bugs make it impossible to know where its at right now

alpine plover
#

Yeah

#

That's the sucky thing

#

I had ideas for buffs or tuning, but the asinine bugs are the forefront of the playables flaws

#

The lower hp and desync exacerbate this issue further

#

Current qa renders a strong pack of 10 adult Utah's bitches

#

Unable to challenge a stego, or even a pair of Carno's

#

Not like Teno though

#

It's just fucked over from raw stats

spare badger
#

Carno turn speed is getting nerfed?

#

Yo
Teno buffs
They are listening

Niceeee

alpine plover
spare badger
#

Punch

#

We got
Teno buffs
Utah changes
Carno nerfs
Stego Stam changes
Lots of Pachy buffs

dusky surge
#

Punch said so

spare badger
#

All the dinos I want changed are getting changed pog

#

I asked Punch about being more direct with liking feedback, but he said because if controversy and shit they can't do that and have to stick with info dumps. Sad but makes sense

alpine plover
#

Oh I see

#

Isle discussion gets flooded and I don't have the leisure to periodically check if he updates any information

#

I'll have to see these changes in practice though, it does seem like the correct direction to start from though

spare badger
#

I watch YouTube videos that talk about announcements, it's easier

wise sparrow
#

@kindred estuary the problem with that is what if you wanna go solo? This Is like what bob did where most herbis are useless outside of a herd. Herbis need to be able to hold their own or no one will play them.

sinful cove
#

No playable should require groups to be viable. That actually makes it harder to find groups to begin with too

#

Because who would want to play as some awful animal that needs support from others to survive when the other (already more populous) faction is viable on their own and can also make groups too anyway

kindred estuary
sinful cove
#

It isn’t tricky within the same tier to give animals who are slower the melee advantage, small tiers can hide and large animals should generally be slower so mids and psuedo mids are viable

#

Making animals rely on a group is shit balance

#

Especially with the level of incompetence for group gameplay within the community

#

I dont want to have to be in a group as tenonto because impulsive idiots always hit me with tail slam when a utah runs by

#

Also its way easier for carnivores to find others of their species than herbivores trying to do the same so they still end up outnumbered by carno or utah megapacks

kindred estuary
sinful cove
#

Nothing should be designed with the idea that it should be in a group to survive

#

Solo gameplay should be priority, then function in a group

#

Even animals built to group like utah should be viable on their lonesome, nothing should need to team up to not be trash

#

If trike is balanced first around being in a group then it will most likely be trash

#

Solo balance is very important

kindred estuary
sinful cove
#

Whether it was intentional or not, this comment heavily implies that you want herbivores to rely on safety in numbers for viability

IMG_9947.png
kindred estuary
sinful cove
#

if the suggestion was just poorly worded and is only suggesting an option for herbivores to spawn near other herbivores as an option, not being designed around safety in numbers especially in their tier, then it could be an interesting system to test out

#

but herbivores shouldnt be pushed in to doing it by being poorly balanced individually

#

nor omnivores or carnivores

#

juveniles in general are trash, especially herbivore ones, so it could be helpful in a game where they are constantly outnumbered by carni players. as long as no balance changes are made to turn anyone in to useless fodder it could be useful to try

kindred estuary
dusky surge
#

@kindred estuary the concept of zebras not fighting back against lions is a flawed argument. Zebras are extremely defensive and hostile animals and are extremely dangerous to humans because of this. They can, and will, kick a lion in the head full force and potentially kill it if need be

#

Herbivores generally always have a second option if the herd fails

#

Or they are separated from it

spare badger
#

^^

sinful cove
#

Nature docs often skip over carnivores getting their asses handed to them because there is a bias for predators and their ‘cool factor’

dusky surge
#

no but seriously

#

zebras are fucking vicious

sinful cove
#

Zebras arent even nice to eachother lol

dusky surge
#

And a horrible example for his point lmao

sinful cove
#

A zebra sees a foal that isnt his and he's gonna kos it

dusky surge
#

And that I find funny. People think it's unrealistic for herbivores to fight each other or kill for sport but just look at shit like kangaroos, zebras and hippos as just some examples

sinful cove
#

I dont remember if it was a zebra or a gazelle but here was a vid of one of those absolutely dunking on a cheetah somewhere that i saw

#

Herbivores are toxic as fuck, when theyre angry they are scarier than predators

#

Because theyre killing out of passion not for survival all the time

#

Sometimes it is, but sometimes a horse just sees a baby bird and decides to stomp on it for fun

dusky surge
#

But yea, the "defenceless herbi" stigma needs to go. Yes, there are animals like rabbits and squirrels that are generally harmless (aka extra small/small tier) but the moment these creatures are so much as pseudo mid, they should become a threat on their own accord

sinful cove
#

Even dainty little whitetail deer will kos sometimes

#

Seen them go after dogs for seemingly no reason

#

And a cat

#

Like its just spur of the moment “im bored i gotta stomp the shit out of someone today”

dusky surge
#

This is also a harsher ecosystem where self-defence is necessary on every animal to at least some extent. Just let herbis be scary, make them slower if you don't want them KOSing as much, but the slower the herbi, the more defensively adept it should be

sinful cove
#

Rabbits will absolutely maul each other and squirrels are omnivores

dusky surge
#

It should be up to the herbivore if it wants others near it

#

Take Pachy as an example of a herbi done right imho. It's a violent little shit that will punish you for so much as coming near it, but it has its vulnerabilities

sinful cove
#

There are times when an herbi should haul ass and get totally wrecked in a melee matchup, if a tenonto sees an allo it should gtfo, but herbivores shouldn’t automatically be defenseless within their tier just because they eat grass

kindred estuary
dusky surge
#

That's probably because the animal docs don't like showing off how unbelievably brutal these things are

placid reef
sinful cove
#

Yeah animal dogs brush over the vast majority if hunts where it ends in failure for the predator

dusky surge
#

The public likes to think of them as "stripey horsies" and not pissed off roid donkeys they actually are

#

No joke, zebras are one of the most dangerous animals in Africa

placid reef
#

Africa is just one big meetup of roid rage donkeys living toghether

sinful cove
#

They get better publicity in showing lions being badsss than they would by showing lions getting their ass wrecked by silly stripe horse or startle a gazelle from 400 feet away

#

Hippos are herbivores and they kill so many people

placid reef
#

Hippos casually hold the top 5 spot in most death anually or smth like that

sinful cove
#

Hippos literally go out of their way to kill other herbivores and even play with the body after

placid reef
#

Thats orcas, elephants too

sinful cove
#

Theres a vid of a hippo swimming up to a gazelle who is stuck in the mud and fucking snaps its neck for fun

kindred estuary
placid reef
#

giant otters, dolphins

dusky surge
#

A lot of people like to think of the circle of life, but if real life were like the Isle, zebras would be getting reported to server admins every fuckin' day lmao. Things are legit so fuckin' toxic they will merc their own kind for the hell of it because they don't know who they are.

placid reef
#

Rhinos and anteaters are the champs bc they dont even see who they attack, they just do

dusky surge
#

Zebras are actually just assholes

sinful cove
#

Theres a vid of a herd of buffalo spotting some lion cubs chilling and they take turns gutting the poor bastards

placid reef
#

ye zebras, orcas hippos and dolphins are the biggest assholes we have rn

#

and elepthants

sinful cove
#

Elephant bulls kos to show off to their friends

#

Literally irl isle player mentality

dusky surge
#

The takeaway is:

Nature is FUCKED, herbivores are so much more than how you see on TV, and never, EVER think a creature will let you live because it doesn't eat meat.

placid reef
#

orcas will play tennis for fun

dusky surge
#

Orcas are carnivores, but they still are just absurd assholes

#

Like unreasonably so

sinful cove
#

Orcas purposely draw out the suffering of seals for amusement before killing them

placid reef
#

they evolved so they can fucking beach themselves like bruh

dusky surge
#

They don't need to do what they do, it is literally just sick games to them to make the hunt as horrible for the prey as possible

sinful cove
#

Dolphins are insane horndogs and psychopaths theyrr like the worst criminals humanity has to offer but in the form of a wannabe fish mammal

placid reef
#

who said the great white was the king of the ocean was a liar, Orcas had a word with him TI_LUL

dusky surge
#

Dolphins are shown as majestic and lovely little animals that laugh and play, they aren't
Zebras are seen as the "small lion prey animal", they aren't
Lions are shown as kings of the savannas that can kill anything, yet when you see a lion, it's a scrawny looking beast that gets bodied by everything it has to hunt

And cheetahs are just like, the shittiest animal ever outside of speed

#

Cheetahs suck

placid reef
#

Stop shitting on cheeta, pandas exist

dusky surge
#

Cheetahs are LOW TIER ANIMALS and you cannot convince me otherwise

#

Pandas at least chose to go out having a great time

placid reef
#

and panda isnt even more? lets be honest, pandas are fucking useless

dusky surge
#

Cheetahs live a life of misery

kindred estuary
dusky surge
#

You haven't seen the dozens of times a herbivore just obliterates them instantly

placid reef
#

cape buffalos are the ones that send them to god not other lions

kindred estuary
#

Sorry this is getting a little far fetched. Lions litterly only exist because they are efficient at eating other animals.

placid reef
#

the king of Africa, yes

dusky surge
#

THAT'S NOT EVEN A FUCKING ADULT HIPPO LMAO

placid reef
#

and its on land too TI_Wheeze

mental roost
#

Not even a fully grown Hippo.. and it's just trotting along with Lions trying to kill it.. and failing.

alpine plover
kindred estuary
#

Sorry your wrong.

alpine plover
#

They steal from leopards, painted dogs, hyenas, and cheetahs

placid reef