#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 290 of 1

sinful cove
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and carno groups are way bigger than 3 rn

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theres hoards of them

ocean wagon
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I was about to say

mental roost
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Run away. You're faster than the Tenotos ,have a crouch, and can also wallow as a carno. And with the current tenoto speed and stamina, that's made even easier..

ocean wagon
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Wasn’t update 3.5 making carno have a group limit of 8

sinful cove
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in this patch it would be a miracle to see 8 tenos vs 3 carnos and not the reverse

frosty heron
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Walk away is always the excuse , if you get cornered by a Carno pack as Teno get yourself a pack aswell , everybody is saying that with Utahs , if you stay together with a bunch of Stegos youre basically protected

sinful cove
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"get yourself a pack as well" bruh thats one of the fuckin problems lmao

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and a canro group vs teno group still favour the carnos

frosty heron
sinful cove
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because carno turns teno legs to jelly in a charge while takning teno tail slams with no punishment

frosty heron
sinful cove
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i am talking about current qa

wild cove
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Are you really implying 8 tenos is a "megaherd" TI_Wheeze Sounds like perfect numbers to me. Also yes, Carno, a small game hunter, should not be roflstomping 8 tenos lmao Go hunt a dryo

frosty heron
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And im not because current QA is an unbalanced fuckfest

sinful cove
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carno is like legacy rex on crack in qa

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the current live patch will be history, current qa needs to get some colossal fixes before it becomes the current live patch

wild cove
frosty heron
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The bot just silenced what I was about to say ..

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Ok whatever

frosty heron
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If theres fractures its QA which is not by any means what I am talking now

sinful cove
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so you agree the matchup in QA is broken as fuck

frosty heron
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8 Tenos still a pretty ridiculous number for a brawler herbi which is not by any means slow or has big weaknesses

sinful cove
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tenonto was fine before the nerf, it cant even be called a brawler anymore in QA

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tenonto got nerfed, carno got buffed in QA

frosty heron
ocean wagon
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Literally everything that a teno can brawl in a fight can and will be able to easily avoid it

ocean wagon
frosty heron
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Again QA its a unbalanced fuckfest , Carno is broken , Teno is nerfed for no reason , Utah its unviable, and Stego is a struggle to grow due to the Carno overpopulation

sinful cove
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tenonto may not be "slow" per say, but it is not fast either when you compare it to predators in its tier

wild cove
sinful cove
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this is what we have been talking about

frosty heron
sinful cove
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you have been talking about current live

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not qa which is the issue

frosty heron
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Balanced

ocean wagon
sinful cove
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you got chased by 6 and still survived too lol

frosty heron
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And I didnt even fight , I tried to run away

ocean wagon
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And you lived

frosty heron
sinful cove
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mud puddles, to be fair, ill be harder to come by once qa goes live

wild cove
frosty heron
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1 mistake and I was dead

ocean wagon
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I really don’t see how, especially with the help of another carno pack

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Im assuming you weren’t full grown then

frosty heron
frosty heron
wild cove
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I guess I have to be "that guy" but that sounds like a L2P issue

frosty heron
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Point is a group of 8 Tenos is untouchable considering they have CC attacks and all of them are adults

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And was a big problem on some servers at 3.5 , as bad as Carno megapacks

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So no, theres no justification for mixed herb herds and megapacks

sinful cove
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except with carnos you dont have a chance to make distance to wallow unless the carnos have the iq of a pebble

ocean wagon
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I was just about to say

wild cove
ocean wagon
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How are you NOT able to make enough distance as an adult carno

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Vs a teno

sinful cove
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mixed herb herds of some species can work. sure it would be dumb to see 3 stegos and 3 trikes hanging out

ocean wagon
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It’s not adding up

frosty heron
wild cove
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Carno is also the fastest, can cross the largest distance in one go compared to any other dino. You can locate water through sniffing. Where there's water, there's mud. Run away, wallow, run into a forest.

sinful cove
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not to mention carno can sniff while moving, the tenos tracking you could not

wild cove
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If I can juke 20 carnos as a lone utah that's SLOWER than Carno and dies in 1-2 bites, I'm sure you can avoid a couple of Tenos as a fully grown Carno by playing smart lol

frosty heron
wild cove
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And that was when I had bleed broadcasting my every step

frosty heron
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Anyways , the fact you can run away doesnt justify the existence of herbie megaherds

wild cove
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The fact that Carnos are stupid OP broken on QA which will eventually hit Live if not addressed though certainly does

ocean wagon
wild cove
frosty heron
ocean wagon
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And why is that

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Please explain

wild cove
sinful cove
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herbivores are always outnumbered on the map so they should by default have larger group sizes allowed on average

frosty heron
sinful cove
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carno group size is stupid as well, 8 tenos isnt crazy compared to it

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its much easier to find other carnis than herbis

frosty heron
# ocean wagon Please explain

Basically because if each one of those 8 has maybe bit more IQ than average cant get killed by anything but another megapack

wild cove
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Then 1)what's your solution to Carno megapacks and 2) why shouldn't herbs want to form huge herds against the most OP land dino in the game that just keeps getting buffed while herbs get nerfed

wild cove
sinful cove
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even without carno being an utterly busted kaioken buff superpredator, why wouldnt herbivores want to group up in a horridly balanced ecosystem where predators outnumber prey 3 to 1

frosty heron
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You wont bleed out and you wont run out of stam, take the turns

frosty heron
wild cove
ocean wagon
wild cove
frosty heron
ocean wagon
wild cove
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How about we actually just balance Carno to be a small game hunter like its supposed to be

frosty heron
ocean wagon
wild cove
wild cove
frosty heron
frosty heron
ocean wagon
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My guy

wild cove
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Teno is not a small dino

ocean wagon
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Carno is a dryo hunter

wild cove
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Smaller =/= small

ocean wagon
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In what world is a teno going to be an actual prey item for a carno

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Well

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Ig dryo and teno are related

wild cove
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Because that's literally how the devs themselves set it up

sinful cove
wild cove
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Or at least in theory

sinful cove
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both iguanadonts

wild cove
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That's how they describe how its supposed to be

frosty heron
ocean wagon
sinful cove
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yeah lol

frosty heron
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I found balance with Carno and Teno fine at update 3

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Just to be messed up on Q@

wild cove
ocean wagon
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Yeah same

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As it should

frosty heron
sinful cove
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teno should be an optio for carno but due to factors like carno's speed and how much easier it is to find a group as a carno, teno should have the advantage in a 1v1 brawl

wild cove
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I mean I'm not denying it

sinful cove
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utah is also trash in qa because god carno trumps all

wild cove
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But there's a much higher skill ceiling for Teno than a Carno by an olympic mile

frosty heron
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Yall talking like im justifing QA Carno something , when im not

sinful cove
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qa is the issue tho

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3.5 is irrelevant since it is going to be replaced soon

frosty heron
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I agree Carno in QA is dumb OP but I wasnt talking about that

ocean wagon
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Right but we’re discussing the balance issuses in QA

wild cove
frosty heron
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Carno being OP doesnt mean "Bring back herbie herds" this is not a Battlefield game with 2 teams, just nerf Carno

sinful cove
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discussing 3.5 balance is almost as irrelevant as discussing legacy

ocean wagon
wild cove
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We're not even IN 3.5 on Live anymore lolol

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We're in 3.75

ocean wagon
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We’re talking about 1v1 situations

sinful cove
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eh same thing

wild cove
frosty heron
wild cove
sinful cove
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dieta limit herds beneath their allowed group size

ocean wagon
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Like I said before

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It’s rare to see 4+ tenos

sinful cove
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and lead herbis to drive thrus because some of the plants are so unrealistically segregated to super specific areas

frosty heron
ocean wagon
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Although I’m pretty sure it’s the group size is still 8

wild cove
frosty heron
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I dont do that with Carnos as Utah , in fact they kos me , as it should

wild cove
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Because a utah will eat you. A stego won't

ocean wagon
frosty heron
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But not Stego/Teno

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Or whatever species comes next

ocean wagon
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Diets have cut down on mixed species herds though, specifically stego/teno

wild cove
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Diets don't even support same-species herds

ocean wagon
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Off you’re still going to have them, because some people just don’t care about their diets once they reach full grown adults

frosty heron
wild cove
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That said, Carno is still primarily a small-game hunter

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It should be living off of mostly small game

frosty heron
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For the current roster its still too soon to make it small game exclusive

ocean wagon
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Okay, now that we’ve agreed that carno being in packs bigger than 3 is stupid, let’s get back to discussing why it’s so damn easy to manage large carno packs still

wild cove
sinful cove
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if utah was better and once pachy is in, not really

ocean wagon
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I heard that pachy will be meals on wheels for carno

sinful cove
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it will have juveniles, dryo, pachy, utah and smaller carnos then. not counting hypsi because it is useless

frosty heron
wild cove
sinful cove
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wondr how well thatll work out considering how much larger teno is while still being fodder

frosty heron
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So you will ever be able to defend yourself , thing Utah cannot TI_Wheeze

ocean wagon
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Filipe said you won’t break a carno in one hit

sinful cove
frosty heron
wild cove
sinful cove
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skilled carnos and carno pairs should be hunting teno

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not the average cold pee IQ carnos steamrolling everything rn

ocean wagon
wild cove
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Also

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ALSO

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REMINDER

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THAT TENO AI EXIST

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AND ARE EASY TO FIND

ocean wagon
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Once the roster is bigger I want teno off of carnos diet tbh

frosty heron
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Utah AI also exist , and its even easier ti find

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Found 3 in the same area

sinful cove
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teno can stay on carno's diet but it shouldnt be shackled down because of it, it should be an option for pairs and actual smart carnos

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it shouldnt be nerfed in to the ground like it has in qa

wild cove
wild cove
frosty heron
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Problem is not food , but Teno being prey ítem so its survality doesnt turn out easy mode

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Thats why I ask for something that is capable to Hunt it

sinful cove
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it should be easy mode against a pea brain carno

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the predator should need to be smart for once

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right now its easier to hunt than to fend off a hunt

ocean wagon
frosty heron
sinful cove
# ocean wagon Ass ride the teno

lol the reason teno was nerfed because carnos on live were screeching about not being able to tank tail slams they walked in to
sadge

wild cove
sinful cove
ocean wagon
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Seriously?

sinful cove
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utah is constantly fluctuating between being busted and getting busted on

wild cove
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Utah packs can actually take down Teno easily on QA right now and idk how to feel about that. I definitely don't feel good about it though, even BEING the Utah killing Tenos

ocean wagon
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All they need to do is actually fix bleed and the pounce bugs

frosty heron
wild cove
ocean wagon
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Right

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Deinos will actually be in swamps now

wild cove
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Teno players are actually basically non-existent everywhere else

ocean wagon
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Potato roots literally grow on the side of river banks entering swamp

sinful cove
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weird af that they decided to shove mountain ash basically exclusively in swamps even though it grows all over realistically. they coulda chosen a plant that makes sense at least

frosty heron
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Yes but as seen in the QA most food options are out of range of the rivers

wild cove
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They're only reachable rn because Deino isn't in

ocean wagon
wild cove
wild cove
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The only real exception I've found is Radish Root on that

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Bc it grows everywhere

frosty heron
frosty heron
ocean wagon
frosty heron
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Was the first dino I played on QA and yes it is on swamps but not close to water, not dangerously enought imo

wild cove
frosty heron
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That should be changed

wild cove
ocean wagon
wild cove
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I mean on a serious note, potatos still exist

ocean wagon
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And grass lmfao

frosty heron
wild cove
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but good luck getting the mountain ash if there are other tenos competing for it

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Which means slower growth

frosty heron
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While on QA I starved once as Utah , kinda sad

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All food guarded by Carnos

wild cove
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Utah has it rough

frosty heron
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And everything I could eat was dead Utahs , just to have cannibal debuffs

ocean wagon
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I’m pretty sure the reason why most Utah’s make it to adulthood in QA is because they spawn at center, kill other juvi Utah’s and scavenge a dead teno body

frosty heron
ocean wagon
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Yes

frosty heron
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They are easy to grow , problem is adulthood doesnt give you much opportunities

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I used Utah to explore the map on QA and thats it , all fights ended up with me healing damage on a random bush/rock

wild cove
ocean wagon
wild cove
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Also a lot of utahs die at swamp because they randomly attack baby Carnos thinking they'll win lol

frosty heron
wild cove
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I've killed so many baby utahs who just launch themselves at me in swamp and I just jump into water to get them off and spam-bite them to death

frosty heron
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I managed to get full nutrients with 3 adult Carnos running around but I think thats nighttime advantages

wild cove
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Small utah definitely has night time advantage because of their size but they also eat so fucking loud its impossible to miss them when they're feeding

frosty heron
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Yeah thats a problem , and I noticed they fill up a bit too slow

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From 0 nutrients its easy 2 whole minutes of noisy munching

wild cove
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Baby utah also can't really kill AI on its own without just spamming something to death for 5 minutes

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And hope the AI stands there and does nothing

frosty heron
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Seems realistic but when you have that many Carnos around is not fun

wild cove
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Honestly it would've been better to implement nesting ahead of diets imo

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shrugs tho

frosty heron
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Perhaps but devs want to include diet effects on nesting

wild cove
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That's fair, but I think its really difficult to actually survive as some of the low-tiers when you literally depend on adults to feed you because you can't kill shit as a carni lol

frosty heron
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Think a dev said that they gonna rework the juveniles gameplay, not sure at what point of how it gonna work

lapis inlet
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sry the format of my feedback lol, im not used to using discord on my phone XD

sinful cove
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How tf did this dude lose 5 carnos to teno. His keyboard fuckin broken? TI_Wheeze

lapis inlet
primal dove
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he didn´t use ram lmao

sinful cove
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People like him are the reason herbis get nerfed to trash, carnis play with negative IQ and some crying to feedback lmao

primal dove
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yea but again u could say the same for the other side, I mean look at utah rn. It all makes no sense trying to put ur own dino into a better position in an ecosystem bc if 1 thing is too strong everyone will play it while an other species will die out and you´ll be "rewarded" with megapacks of this superior species roaming around the map. (And that´s what we are experiencing rn)
Remember even dinosaurs lived in a society.
But I can understand ur argument. If someone just plays like shit and cries about his favorite playable being too useless then we will never come to a solution.

bold pecan
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For me everything is fine except everything we already know about carnos, because I know dinos aren't supposed to be 1v1, but I think a teno should be able to 1v1 a carno and not lose the ability to walk because of a single headbutt

minor fjord
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@open oyster are you actually that fucking bad to lose to tenos as a carno?

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do you have any idea of how brokenly strong carno is right now? a tail slam doesn't slam a carno to the ground and it can just walk off bleed

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also the fact that they took away the cooldown of the charge, you being able to fucking spam regular bite with an increased turn speed on top of that

dreamy frost
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I just barely escaped as a teno... brlegh

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wow, 3 carnos

wild cove
# primal dove yea but again u could say the same for the other side, I mean look at utah rn. I...

Yeah but you're arguing apples and potatoes here. The problem with Utah, ESPECIALLY on QA right now, is its broken as fuck. Using their gimmick PROPERLY will get you killed. I was talking about this a good week ago but @fallen vale put up a video just earlier showing the exact problem Utah is having.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1161841129
Utah has no real bite force, missed pounces are punished, pounces that SHOULD hit are punished (bouncing off the side of dinos), AND pounces that DO land are punished.

Carno has none of these problems. Its punished for nothing except pure negative IQ stupidity. And even then Carno can walk off stupidity most of the time, while herbs get nerfed because people who play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Twitch
Pounce working as intended - poutine_italienne_qc on Twitch

poutine_italienne_qc went live on Twitch. Catch up on their The Isle VOD now.

▶ Play video
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I've lost Utahs the same exact way on QA, just against Tenos. Land the pounce, Teno steps forward, tail slam, dead.

fallen vale
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Also the way pounce works is entirely counter intuitive. If you're remotely looking too much down your raptor will do a 10 cm long pounce

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Then you're fucked

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The vertical angle of the camera affects way too much your pounce height / success chance. If you wanna make sure to not completely fail miserably you need to make sure that your camera is essentially laying on the ground. Not a big fan

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But I don't play much raptor so maybe I'm not too used to it. Someone had to tell me that, if you're not aware of that it just seems buggy and broken. I think most players have a tendency to look down when they are about to pounce someone and not look up

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Which makes for a pretty bad new player / inexperienced raptor experience

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When I play tenon I see that MOST encounters I have with raptors they always tend to only bite which is extremely easy to punish if you're at least half decent with a Teno as opposed to proper pounces. All my recent encounters with raptor packs ended up in a complete bloodbath without losing a single drop of blood. But most raptors don't even attempt to pounce most of the time as I think it has become clear for many players that its pretty unreliable / risky to attempt pounces at the monent.

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Raptors would be way more played if pounce was fixed properly and became their main source of getting huge bleeding out there on their target before harassing it to death.

sinful cove
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Raptors bounce off of shit like tennis balls rn lmao its like bucking is passive at this point

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They should be punished for actually missing but the game kind just bounces them off when it shouldnt

fallen vale
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I really want raptors to be fixed asap to keep carnos in check and also I think the Teno vs raptor pack is the most interesting in the game at the monent which has become almost non existent. I reached the point where I actually protect young raptors in hope that I can fight them later on

sinful cove
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Raptors and tenos both got shafted hard in qa, somebody on the dev team must really love carno lol

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Raptor and teno matchups can be interesting but both are fodder to god-king carno

fallen vale
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A lot of it stems from the fact that the primary source of raptor bleed is broken and unused at the monent

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And that carnos have too much HPs / blood pool

sinful cove
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It feels like raptors were dipped in oil they cant keep a grip lol

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Carno has too much everything aside from speed which is supposed to be his big schtick so thats fine

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But it has decent agility, bleed, damage and insane fracture

fallen vale
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I don't think the carno damage is too high against Teno

sinful cove
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Its charge fracture is insanity

fallen vale
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They are way too tanky and can spam charge to get the easiest fracture to pull off in the game

sinful cove
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Teno got a fat damage nerf while carno was pampered so that may be why it feels too scewed

fallen vale
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At no risk at all since Teno tail slam doesn't counter charge

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And no stam cost almost

sinful cove
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Yeah carno tanks slams like its nothing now while turning teno legs in to mincemeat

fallen vale
sinful cove
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Carnos just charge at mach speed out of nowhere like “bippity boppity boo! Your leg is snapped in two!”

fallen vale
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And teno stam regen is non existant at this point even with 3/3 diet

sinful cove
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And tenos tail may as well be wet pasta

sinful cove
fallen vale
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You can keep one carno at bay at the moment

sinful cove
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So you get worn out and may as well just take your hands off the keyboard and accept death to the 40 carno megapacks roaming the server

fallen vale
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2 if you have a safe spot to regen

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But what tend to appends is one attacks you

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You beat him up

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He stays behind

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Starts screaming for 2 mij

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Min

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Then 4 more show up

sinful cove
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You can only beat up a carno if his keyboard is broken, doesnt matter if his brain is broken because slam doesnt punish anymore and they can walk in to it

fallen vale
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And then you put on a fight and die because your stam never Regens

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Even if you manage to keep them in check and have some breathing time

sinful cove
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I think they forgot what a “brawler” herbivore is this patch

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And forgot that carno is the fastest predator in the game

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And that utah is supposed to be a threat in packs

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Dryo and hypsi are too lame to even comment on much and stego is just there

fallen vale
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This video illustrate exactly the issue. You will see at the end I could have pull up a much longer fight by having diet and managing to secure a lot of breathing time to regen

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I could never secure any new stam, as the regen even with the 30% bonus is rock bottom garbage

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Near the end

sinful cove
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I gotta wonder if the devs truly tested this patch themselves before shipping it to qa

fallen vale
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It's not a patch though don't confuse it

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It's a testing ground to try to balance it out

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You change values and check how it goes with real players

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Then you adjust

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Gives us the chance to find glaring issues before it hits the evrima branch

sinful cove
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Thats certainly a noisy carno pack, they have no fear because they know theyre busted

fallen vale
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But regarding that one fight you could tell none of the carnos really dares to commit despite me being out of stam and able to secure some regen time

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Which never pays off as Teno regen is non existent at the moment

sinful cove
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Yeah theyre cowards and idiots yet they face no punishment for it due to teno's pathetic state

fallen vale
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In 3.5 I would have secured enough stam to hold my ground much longer

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Probably die anyway in the end

sinful cove
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Incentivizes people with the brain content of a balloon to play the largest land predator and face 0 competition from anything but its own

thin mantle
sinful cove
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I see them killing babies sometimes but thats it

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They usually team up

fallen vale
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It actually strengthen overly large carno packs

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Of adults

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As they eat smaller lone ones

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If they were not cannibal they would not be able to secure a decent diet

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And keep large groups of carnos running around with decent diet

sinful cove
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They lose nothing by KFSing some random juvie for fun, just like they lose nothing for steamrolling a pack of utahs or some tenos

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No challenge, no resistance

fallen vale
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But that's kind of beside the point

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With deinos back eating some of them and filtering some carno players to play deino, having Utah pounce fixed and tenos in the better place

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The carno suropop would not be a problem

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Cannibal or not

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Attempting to fix it by making them cannibal is throwing shits at the wall and seeing what sticks

sinful cove
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That is assuming teno and utah actually get fixed. Deino relies on carnos approaching it and will also subtract from other species bases

fallen vale
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I don't think the devs will leave it like that

sinful cove
fallen vale
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Yes that's what I wrote

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I don't think cannibal or not has a huge influence if other stuff is fixed properly

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Compared to some other variables

sinful cove
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Its crazy that this even went live in qa for just how outrageous it is. It isnt just some bugs, it's conscious stats numbers changes

fallen vale
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All it takes is a dev who's not too talented at fighting, changes a bit some values and thinks it seems fine

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Turns out it's over tuned in carnos favor, everyone starts picking that.

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I don't think they set out to create carnoland consciously

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Form what I can tell they deployed changes very fast up until a week ago

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So obviously not much prior testing was done

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Which is kind of the point at the same time

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It's what people wanted, you're part of the development cycle now

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I'm a software eng, welcome to the fabulous world of software development

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🥂

tacit oriole
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Seems like my pessimism was sadly warranted

sinful cove
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i am always pessimistic and still somehow get disappointed

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i havent been on in a few days, not really worth

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its no fun playing carno either because its all carnos slaughtering everything, boring

barren oracle
sinful cove
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lol ya it is im always talkin shit about possible future changes the proof is i the pudding

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i dont expect anything good for herbi side to last or for new mechanics to not be broken

crystal wharf
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tenonto got overnerfed because they were adjusting for the existance of fractures
needs tuning back to an acceptable level is all

sinful cove
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Pretty interesting that that nerf didn’t also hit carno who was getting fractures as well. Very onesided ‘mistake’ TI_Think

ocean wagon
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I’m pretty sure kissen is the only reason teno has any rights at all

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I remember back when teno was just concept art and she was going on about how she fought for teno to actually be able to defend itself

#

Because if it was left up to dondi, it would just be meals on wheels

dusky surge
#

also carno got nerfed

#

it got less damage to its charge iirc

sinful cove
#

Chopping such a large amount off of teno's slam damage isnt worth the addition of mediocre fracture

dusky surge
#

idk man, if a teno can fracture you in your head, body and legs, i'd be scared of it lmao

sinful cove
#

If carno cripples teno in one hit and teno needs to hit carno many times to punish it when the fracture actually works

dusky surge
#

tbf, charge often sucks if you can prepare for it

#

personally, i'd up teno's fractures a bit more

sinful cove
#

Its nonexistent right now or just unnoticeable

#

A “bit” isnt enough

#

Teno shouldnt expend most of its stam just to give one carno an ouchie

ocean wagon
#

If I hear another “nerf stego tail swing” post, I’m just going to start calling people bad at the game

dusky surge
#

lmao fair

sinful cove
#

With weak ass fracture and damage that it needs to stack unlike carno

sinful cove
dusky surge
#

god i wonder if you should just not fight steg

#

imagine

#

abstaining from fighting a 6 ton instant-kill death machine

#

im not too sure you should be running a carno headfirst into it but who knows

ocean wagon
#

Like in so many of these conversations about stego being too strong, I’ve been fighting back the urge to call people bad at the game

sinful cove
#

Carni players think that no matter what carni theyre playing they should be able to kill everything reliably

#

Carni players to slower herbivores: “just run away!”

Also carni players when they see the slowest land herbi in the game: “i have no choice but to fight that, nerf it so i can fight it!”

dusky surge
#

i LIKE steg's balance because

it can fight off what can kill it VERY easily
it cannot use this power to grief very well since most animals can just leave it alone without much problem

thus, it is sort of like a tough boss fight, rather than just another source of meat

#

any carnivore can choose not to fuck with the stego

#

so don't fuck with it

ocean wagon
#

But me carnivore, i must hunt apex

sinful cove
#

I gotta play out my inner jp fanfiction and oneshot animals 4+ times my size as any carni dawndiii

ocean wagon
#

I think what tilts me most about these conversations is that, I don’t mind people wanting to hunt stego, it’s WHAT people want to hunt stego as

sinful cove
#

Theyd probably be happy if the isle had jwe matchups

dusky surge
#

carno mains complaining they can't solo a trike when the trike is out Cry

sinful cove
#

Carni players when presented with any avoidable challenge

ocean wagon
#

Like I couldn’t really care if Alberto or allo was in the game and people were making suggestions about a pack of those two killing a stego

dusky surge
#

oh sure

ocean wagon
#

But things like CARNO

dusky surge
#

allo and alberto should be considered steg killers

#

but CARNO?

#

aka therapod cheetah?

#

fuck no

ocean wagon
#

ffs cerato has a better chance at killing a stego than fucking carno

dusky surge
#

agreed

ocean wagon
#

Like yeah sure stego shouldnt be in the game because it’s an apex

#

But just because it is in the game doesn’t mean you have to interact with them

#

Stegos have a god forsaking run speed that anyone other dino can easily get away from

#

And their heavy attack require them to stay still

#

It is the easiest thing in the world to literally ignore the stego and find easier prey to kill

#

(I’m talking about adult stegos just to be clear, juvis and sub adult stegos should be wary of the current roster of carnivores)

dusky surge
#

honestly, i'd say stego is underpowered atm (but that's fine since we have literally zero other large dinos to contest it so it can stand to be weak)

ocean wagon
#

Oh for sure stego is under powered

#

If they really wanted carnivore mains go cry a river, stego would one shot 90% of the roster

dusky surge
#

like current stego v an allo or alberto is probably not going to end well for the steg. Don't even get me started on facing off against a rex

ocean wagon
#

Getting your heart impaled by a stego thagomizer isn’t very healthy

#

Doesn’t stego have a 2x dmg multiplier for head damage

dusky surge
#

i do believe it takes the most head damage

ocean wagon
#

That plus Rex bite force sounds depressing for stego

#

I wish they had internal damage health bars

#

Things like blunt force trauma or getting impaled would damage the vital organs inside

#

For example a utah pouncing a Rex would mostly be doing external damage causing minor health damage and average bleed, while internal damage could be like a trike driving it’s horn intro a rexes heart, killing it right then and there

lapis inlet
frosty heron
#

The main problem with Stego is herbie mains feeling confortable with having a playable in the game that has no real predators and being capable of 1 shooting anything that gets on their range with just a single click, and its a problem for both sides because if youre playing Stego you gonna get bored quickly, nobody will fight you and you gonna take no effort to win any ocasional fight that could happen (dumb carnos most of the time)

And for the Hunters side, the Stego being so strong compared to the current carni roster leads to toxic stuff like bodyguarding , yeah sure you can run away but you aint gonna eat whatever you killed with Stego around.

fallen vale
# dusky surge it got less damage to its charge iirc

This is actually not the case at the moment. It's a huge buff not a nerf. As now one single charge is a death sentence for a teno since any carno with a positive IQ will figure out he can just chain charge him afterward and the teno has no way (litteraly here) to do anything about it. He can't doge and he can't counter charge with the slams.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1160645197

Twitch
Repeated charges after a fracture - poutine_italienne_qc on Twitch

poutine_italienne_qc went live on Twitch. Catch up on their The Isle VOD now.

▶ Play video
lapis inlet
fallen vale
lapis inlet
#

syr i wasnt clear, i mean before u get clapped, honestly i just avoid carnos al together

oak wind
#

Carno basically cannot turn at this moment so yeah. You absolutely can avoid it even if it doesn't have a cooldown.

sinful cove
#

Carnos alt bite is too fast, what do you mean it can't turn? If you're slower than it, which you will be because its the fastest land dino in the game, then its fast alt bite is a problem

#

It is way too good at brawling

#

High fracture, good damage and bleed, and fast alt bite on TOP of already outspeeding everybody

dusky surge
#

dude, it can turn way too well

#

the biggest issue with carno is it's efficiency in turning

#

it brawl way too good

sinful cove
#

Utah wasn’t made to only attack in groups, it was meant to scale by group size. That feedback makes it seek as though solo utahs are supposed to just scavenge or something lol

dusky surge
#

yea

fallen vale
#

This is also what I show in the video

ocean wagon
primal dove
#

Can u guys pls stop thinking that every utah player on this earth wants utah to be an apex and solo big shit

#

That was legacy, I also was sad about utah not being able to 1v1 a carno in evrima but tbh utah is sooooo much more fun and stronger in a good cordinated pack

primal dove
ocean wagon
#

things its size or smaller

#

as of right now a carno it size BODIES utahs

#

same thing with small sub adult stegos

primal dove
#

so stuff like pachy, dilo and some sub adults

ocean wagon
ocean wagon
#

pachy should the biggest challenge for a solo utah

primal dove
ocean wagon
#

well most people dont think before they speak on balancing this game

#

im talking about what i personally want for utah

#

and i personally think that we need to cut the whole "utah needs a pack to be good" agenda

primal dove
#

hmmm TI_Think

ocean wagon
#

like I said, utah has the option to hunt bigger prey, BUT it should be no more than an option, not a requirement

primal dove
#

ok yes it shouldn´t need a full pack to take down a single carno that is absurd

ocean wagon
#

right exactly

#

and as of right now

#

juvi carnos BODY utahs with a single charge

primal dove
#

bone break?

ocean wagon
#

yes

primal dove
#

wait I´m playing carno and a utah was chasing me before xD

ocean wagon
#

carno juvis can criple adult utahs

#

which is fucking stupid

ocean wagon
#

it should take 3-4 utahs to kill a carno

#

but we all know thats not the case

#

I was a sub adult carno and i killed 5 adult utahs that were eating a teno body in the forest

primal dove
ocean wagon
#

they barely even damaged me

#

and they werent "bad" players for the most part

ocean wagon
#

imo it should go:
Juvi/Hatchling carno should require 1 adult utah to kill it
Sub adult carno should require 1-2 Adult utahs to kill it
Adult carno should require 3-4 Adult utahs to kill it

#

based on average skill levels across the board

primal dove
#

yup 👍

spare badger
#

Carno's charge shouldn't even do fracture, or at least not as much. Teno slam should be the attack with crazy fracture

dusky surge
#

both carno charge and teno tailslam do fracture, just the fracture damage on teno tail is much lower for some reason

crystal wharf
#

its probably weight based
if a tenonto hits anything its weight and under the effects are instant and deadly

sinful cove
#

Well they sure did a good job at making teno useless against carnos with that galaxy brain balancing

dusky surge
#

it isnt weight based

#

smaller things generally just have more fragile bones

sinful cove
#

Ive seen tenos slam each other and not get crippled like they do from carno charge

#

They just gave carno the better deal its as simple as that

dusky surge
#

yea because their fracture dmg is lower

sinful cove
#

They decided to listen to all the carnos in feedback complaining about getting punished for letting themselves get tail slammed

dusky surge
#

either that or they adjusted fracture rates for the unreleased mild fractures

#

which means teno just got the shaft lmao

sinful cove
#

Yeah quite the ‘councidence’ that teno was the one who got shafted with the fat damage nerf AND nonexistent fracture

#

It really did get the shaft

#

Its tail may as well be wet spaghetti now

hollow canyon
#

Its tailslam's damage has been nerfed enough so as not to oneshot Utah with a headshot anymore.

#

According to my calculations the base damage for it should be around 250N, maybe a smidgen higher than that.

#

This would be fine imo but in that case it needs a drastic buff in terms of the stamina cost, because this damage output is absurdly low for an attack that costs 10% of Tenonto's stamina.

sinful cove
#

Its absurd if it slams utah in the head and doesnt oneshot it

#

Once utah has its pounce fixed tenonto will be fodder to it as well

#

If it doesnt get a rebuff

#

Utah is a scrawny goblin it shouldnt tank tail slams or carno charges, and carno is the only one who got a good deal of the three this qa patch

hollow canyon
#

I think that's perfectly fine, Utah lives with around ~75 HP, it's out of the fight if it gets hit there but Tenonto can't just oneshot it. The only issue is how much stamina tailslam uses.

sinful cove
#

Nah tenonto is fodder with that shit damage output

hollow canyon
#

2 tailslams still kill a Utah if they hit it

sinful cove
#

Stam cost be damned if it doesn’t dish out suitable damage it is a blood bag

hollow canyon
#

Its damage output is decent enough, the issue is that it can't do anything if it gets fractured by Carno or if it runs out of stamina. Carno's damage has been nerfed all around as well which is a good thing. This makes for a longer fight between these two

sinful cove
#

Imagine teno with that weak noodle damage when cerato comes, on top of continuing to be free kills for a carno

hollow canyon
#

The only issue is the charge being broken atm

#

Tenonto is only free food for Carno for the two reasons I've outlined above. Carno's damage is still lower than that of the Tenonto

sinful cove
#

It cant punish carnos at all unless the carno's keyboard breaks

hollow canyon
#

It absolutely can as long as it lands any CC attack. You can land 2 additional tailslams if you land a CC on Carno.

sinful cove
#

And if cerato is set to be a better brawler then tenonto remains fodder

sinful cove
#

It walks it off

#

You need no brain activity to fight teno as carno

hollow canyon
#

Sure but so does Tenonto walk off Carno's bites - those deal even less damage and they don't CC you

#

well duh, cause you just charge it, bonebreak it and then finish it off

sinful cove
#

Dont compare carnos bites to tail slam lmfao

hollow canyon
#

the fight is over the moment Tenonto's bonebroken

sinful cove
#

Carno bites can maybe be compared to a claw swipe

dusky surge
sinful cove
#

Tail slam is supposed to be teno's big hitter

#

And it is trash

hollow canyon
dusky surge
#

which means its the same as a fucking carno altbite

#

lmao

sinful cove
#

Hilarious

hollow canyon
#

Carno's alt bite is hot garbage

#

you should never use that attack

sinful cove
#

How anybody can defend teno's state

dusky surge
#

not really anymore

#

carno is a much more solid brawler now

#

(sadly)

sinful cove
#

If you think carno alt bite is garbage and teno is balanced then idek what to say

hollow canyon
#

yea really, you can bite twice with normal bites without locking yourself in the animation of the alt bite in the same time when you're performing the alt bite

dusky surge
#

old alt-bite, you'd be right

hollow canyon
#

Alt bite is garbage, it's literally a noobtrap

dusky surge
#

new alt-bite is shockingly fast for what the animal is

sinful cove
#

And you think tail slam isnt

#

Tail slam is hot garbage

hollow canyon
#

Tailslam is bad yea

#

because it uses 10% stam

dusky surge
#

wait hold on

hollow canyon
#

for an attack that deals relatively meh damage

sinful cove
#

Lmao no because it deals shit damage and has no redeeming factors

dusky surge
#

HOLY FUCKING SHIT

#

CARNO ALTBITE DOES THE SAME DAMAGE WITH MORE FLEXIBILITY FOR HALF THE STAM

hollow canyon
#

Well it either needs a higher damage or a lower stam cost

dusky surge
#

AND BLEED

sinful cove
#

It shouldnt deal meh damage. Keep the stam cost and make it deal proper damage

#

Teno was fine before shit clusterfuck of qa balance

dusky surge
#

Carno is LITERALLY a better brawler than fucking teno now. That's sad

hollow canyon
#

Carno's alt bite doesn't CC stuff

sinful cove
#

Absolute disaster

hollow canyon
#

which is the most important part that you're missing out on

sinful cove
#

Teno's cc is useless because carno walks it off after

dusky surge
#

Carno's altbite is less clunky and can move in any direction in a 360 space. Teno's tailslam is confined to behind it

sinful cove
#

You cant punish a fucking 2 year old playing a carno as a teno

dusky surge
#

Carno boasts bleed, speed, flexibility and lower stam
Teno has ineffectual fractures and stuns

sinful cove
#

Teno's stun is like if i threw sand in your eyes and then sprayed you with a water gun

#

Useless

dusky surge
#

I think if they don't want to amp up the damage, amp up the blunt damage. Make it fracture harder, break bones and fuck out of there

#

A carno with a broken leg would be horrible for the carno, so make them fear that outcome

sinful cove
#

If it had good fracture like they so generously blessed carno with it would be fine but it has NO redeeming qualities as of now

hollow canyon
#

Neither of them should have the fractures Carno has rn

#

this is just legacy bonebreak level of broken

#

and ends the fight straight away

dusky surge
#

i understand why carno does so much fracture, its kinda ramming into you with its whole body, but if we're going to give carno fracture, either take something away from it or give the teno a way to fracture back

hollow canyon
#

The only reason why Carno does so much fracture is because this system is clearly not fully fleshed out. It has no right to bonebreak a Tenonto and force it to limp with a single charge.

dusky surge
#

if a teno can fracture a carno, the teno will always have the higher chance of winning because the carno lacks its primary tool, speed. Even if both combatants are fractured, a teno fracturing a carno benefits the teno the most

hollow canyon
#

Fractures shouldn't be occurring until more than one fracture-inducing attack lands on animals of the same size. In general I don't think either Tenonto or Carno should have them on their special attacks, those attacks are already applying CC, either remove the CC from them and make them fracture-based or don't add fractures to them.

#

Having one attack do 3 different things is just an awful design.

#

Good thing Carno's charge got its damage nerfed

#

because it was already doing way too much

dusky surge
#

honestly, making tail slam = high fracture and kick = stun could be cool

hollow canyon
#

that could work

#

you shouldn't be able to do all of the above just with one attack

#

and honestly Carno shouldn't be fracturing with its charge at all imo but that's just me

dusky surge
#

kick is stun to get people to stop assriding you. Fracture is on tailslam as its primary tool to deter predators and end fights

hollow canyon
#

That sounds like a Pachy thing but I guess devs needed to throw the fracture at something to test the mechanic itself

dusky surge
#

I'm okay with the idea of fights not always ending in death and rather injury so the predator just fucks off because it knows better

hollow canyon
#

In general though - if Tenonto's damage remains the way it is now, it should definitely get a buff to the stamina cost(I'd dare to say that 5% would be a fair stamina cost with its current damage output imo). Otherwise it will likely need a damage buff although that damage should most definitely not be back to its old value.

dusky surge
#

thats fair

ocean wagon
#

as of now its "damn I just laid most of my stamina into this carno and it barely phased it, guess i'll die now"

hollow canyon
#

Yea you currently need 8 tailslams over Carno's body to kill it

#

Admittedly it could be seven and a bite or two but the point stands

#

the damage output just isn't high enough for that stam cost

#

I think Tenonto should have either 20 or 25 tailslams at its disposal to fight Carno

#

Having the fight between these two last longer is overall a good change so I'm not exactly against the fact that they've shaved off a tonne of damage from both Carno and Tenonto but the stamina cost for Teno makes it problematic for the animal

ocean wagon
#

That’s the problem though, carno should not be lasting long in any fight

#

It’s not a brawler

#

And it’s not an endurance hunter

#

Or at least conceptually it’s not supposed to be

#

What carno is supposed to be hunting like is that it ambushes smaller/agile prey by using its immense speed advantage

#

Not have a whole WWE match with a teno

spare badger
#

how much did they nerf tail slam

dusky surge
#

Exactly something I agree with, carno is too good at brawling

spare badger
#

it was fine where it was before

#

it being a commital but deadly move was good

#

why tf did they change that

hollow canyon
#

Carno's absolutely not supposed to be an ambush hunter. It's supposed to be roaming the plains which is just about the last place where you will be ambushing anything. It's also incapable of using its special ability without reaching full speed and making a tonne of noise in the process. It's neither designed nor supposed to be an ambush hunter.

#

As for how much the tailslam was nerfed - it lost some 30% of its damage output.

#

It's not much when compared to the nerf the other animals got hit with when 3.75 came out

#

but it's in a way more noticeable because Tenonto actually uses up stamina while using this attack so any nerf is more noticeable.

ocean wagon
#

It’s super easy to ambush in the plains? That’s where I rack up most of my ambushes as carno. That or i sneak up on a bunch of chatty Utah’s in a forest and maul them.

hollow canyon
#

Then you're ambushing either bots or absolutely atrocious players(which isn't surprising because a tonne of people playing this game are awful at it)

#

I've "ambushed" Utahs by running straight at them with them looking right at me in the middle of the plains

#

but that doesn't make Carno a good ambush hunter

ocean wagon
#

No it’s not that hard to crouch behind a small hill, let the prey get up infront of you then you ram them from behind

hollow canyon
#

hell I've ambushed Utahs as a Tenonto by running up to them and tailslamming them in the middle of the plains as well but that doesn' make Tenonto an ambush hunter either

#

It's hard if the prey has at least one brain lobe working

#

Cancel that - it's not hard, it's just not happening if the player you're trying to do that on is actually playing the game

ocean wagon
#

Okay then, so let’s say carno isn’t an ambush hunter. How are you going to catch that dryo or Utah that are way more agile than you

hollow canyon
#

You should have enough agility to catch them obviously - they should be getting out of the plains and running into the jungle to survive an encounter with Carno

#

If they get caught in the middle of an empty plain - they should be dying

ocean wagon
#

No, carno doesn’t have enough agility to catch a dryo or a Utah that knows it’s there

hollow canyon
#

Yea, that's a different issue altogether

ocean wagon
#

No, that’s not an issue. That’s how carno is supposed to work

#

It’s not a sharp turner while running

#

And it’s drift makes it go miles past it’s target

hollow canyon
#

So carno's supposed to not be able to catch small game despite allegedly being a small game hunter?

ocean wagon
#

Ambush them

hollow canyon
#

Only reall awful players get ambushed in Evrima

#

like you have to be terrible at it to get ambushed in this game

ocean wagon
#

Wrong? If a carno has a small hill between you and it, it can easily ambush you with a charge from there?

hollow canyon
#

No it can't because you will hear it coming

#

I've never been ambushed by Carno

#

Not a single time

ocean wagon
#

Well congrats, but you don’t speak for the rest of the community

hollow canyon
#

since I've started to play Evrima when it came out

#

I most definitely don't

ocean wagon
#

I’ve never been ambushed by a deino

#

Guess deino isn’t a ambush hunter

alpine plover
#

Wow so good. Pls teach us senpais

hollow canyon
#

considering how awful most of the people I encounter in this game are

ocean wagon
hollow canyon
#

Lesson number 1 - turn on your monitor, lesson number 2 - use a headset, lesson number 3 - pay attention to the game

#

It is a viable strategy against absolutely awful players yea

#

A good player will not get ambushed in Evrima

#

it's as simple as that

#

Not even a good one

ocean wagon
#

Not really

hollow canyon
#

one that's paying attention to it and knows how it works

#

Yes really

ocean wagon
#

If you can’t see the carno until the last minute, you’re done

hollow canyon
#

You can hear it coming

#

It makes a characteristic sound when it starts charging

ocean wagon
#

Carno barely makes noise when it’s running with charge

hollow canyon
#

If you can't hear that sound I suggest you get a better headset

#

It's audible from a mile away from it and I have never had an instance where I wouldn't hear a charging Carno

dusky surge
hollow canyon
#

Carno has never in the history of this game been an ambush hunter and it's not one now either

#

If you're getting ambushed by it you need to work on how you play this game

#

it's as simple as that

ocean wagon
#

and in the history of this game carno has never had an agile running speed

spare badger
hollow canyon
#

It doesn't need to have particularly good agility to take down small game in the plains, it just needs to have enough

#

It shouldn't be free to land a hit on them every time

#

it should only have enough to land a hit on them every now and then

#

if they can't get to the jungle in time - they should die

#

if they can - good for them, they get to see another day

ocean wagon
#

when compared to the inhabitants of the plains, IE dryo and galli utah etc, it very much needs one if you want it to keep up with them

spare badger
#

If teno's slam fractured well it would make sense
Fracture a fast carnivore and you can escape

ocean wagon
#

unless your specific carno has the agility of a dryo

hollow canyon
#

Its agility in update 2 was absolutely enough to kill Utahs reliably if they decided to stick in the plains

#

atm it's... questionable

ocean wagon
#

why are you bringing up update 2? they specifically nerf it for that exact reason

hollow canyon
#

I'd say that a good Utah could dodge a Carno borderline indefinitely but

#

it will likely make a mistake at some point

dusky surge
#

carno is absolutely meant to be an ambush hunter lmao

hollow canyon
#

Yea, they've stopped it from being a small game hunter at that point

dusky surge
#

high speed, low stam

#

that's literally an ambush in a nutshell

hollow canyon
#

No, it's not

ocean wagon
#

w h a t

hollow canyon
#

Dilo has a relatively low stamina in the legacy(150 seconds, that's lower than Allo, Sucho or Utah) and yet it's an endurance hunter

dusky surge
#

carno isn't tho

hollow canyon
#

The thing that matters for an ambush hunter is to have a good acceleration and to be able to strike suddenly and end a fight quickly

#

Carno doesn't do that

dusky surge
#

carno's stam and stam regen are FAR too low to support an endurance hunt

#

he has to kill QUICK

ocean wagon
#

so you want, high speed, high agility, high damage for its size, and decent stamina

hollow canyon
#

No

dusky surge
ocean wagon
#

I MEAN

hollow canyon
#

I don't think you're reading with comprehension is very good, Carno shouldn't have a good agility, speed and high damage, its damage should be subpar, just as it is. Its agility should be below average and its stamina pool should be low. It should be killing you by running you down in the plains. If you can get to the forest before it kills you - you get to live, if you don't it will eventually kill you

#

It can't follow you for a very long time either because it has only some 50-60 seconds of stamina

#

meaning that you if you run around long enough with it, it will have to give up the hung

#

It has clear weaknesses and strengths

dusky surge
#

carno having higher stam and lower stam regen is something i'm interested in

#

like a cheetah

hollow canyon
#

That would be awful

#

Cheetahs don't have a high stamina at all

ocean wagon
hollow canyon
#

and Carno is not a cheetah

hollow canyon
dusky surge
#

carno should, imo, be designed around cheetahs. If something contests it for its food, it should not brawl it, it has high speed, it should fucking book it. I hate the brawler carno we have now

hollow canyon
#

They should be able to evade it once or twice, but if they can do it for 60 seconds straight then something is wrong with the balance

ocean wagon
#

carno does not and will not have the agility to catch a dryo that SEES it coming

hollow canyon
#

If something is supposed to be on the Carno's menu and it can avoid Carno forever then something is wrong with either that playable or with Carno

ocean wagon
#

or maybe

dusky surge
#

carno should not be catching them so easily

hollow canyon
#

If Dryo doesn't see a Carno coming

#

it should uninstall

#

there's no maybe

ocean wagon
#

carno is supposed to be ambushing something thats more agile than itself

dusky surge
#

i refuse to accept a world where a dryo SEES a carno coming and CANNOT escape it

ocean wagon
#

you keep saying "the carno will catch it eventually" HOW, dryo has stamina to run LAPS around carno

dusky surge
#

exactly

ocean wagon
#

like actually explain

hollow canyon
#

Carno isn't meant to endurance hunt it - its meant to bite it once and kill it, that's it

#

It doesn't need to be as agile as Dryo to be able to do that

dusky surge
#

okay, sure

hollow canyon
#

it just needs enough agility to land a single hit within the 60 seconds of its running time

dusky surge
#

how do you best go around getting one hit on a dryo?

#

an ambush lmao

ocean wagon
#

if ME a dryo player has more stamina and faaaaaaaaar more agilty than YOU a carno player who can only run fast in a straight line, how are you going to kill me

hollow canyon
#

If you encounter a Dryo that's dumb enough to get ambushed - sure, you might also kill a Deino while you're at it - perhaps it will be afk while you stumble upon it

hollow canyon
ocean wagon
#

no

#

it should not

hollow canyon
#

It should have enough to avoid it for some time

#

not indefinitely

ocean wagon
#

Carno is not BUILT to turn fast while running

#

my god, if that were the case the devs should just delete utah now

hollow canyon
#

It's not, it shouldn't be turning fast while running. It needs to turn slightly below average while running and it will be just fine hunting the smalls

ocean wagon
#

lmfao what?

hollow canyon
#

Then again - atm Carno isn't a small game hunter really, it's a pseudo-mid hunter

#

I'm fine with it btw

#

Let Cerato hunt smalls

dusky surge
#

wha

ocean wagon
#

"It needs to turn slightly below average while running" once again, ALL of the small plains inhabitants have ABOVE average turning speed while running

dusky surge
#

sorry what the fuck

#

you want cerato, a slower dino that can't even catch the smalls and scavenges food from other dinos, to be a small hunter? what the fuck

hollow canyon
ocean wagon
#

🧍‍♂️

hollow canyon
dusky surge
#

im actually at a loss lmao

hollow canyon
#

I'm not surprised

dusky surge
#

cerato is supposed to punch up to fight off big things. carno is supposed to hunt little things with high speed. you want the opposite of both lmao

hollow canyon
#

I don't WANT anything

#

I said Carno is not a small game hunter atm

#

it's a pseudo-mid hunter

dusky surge
#

that sounds like a problem with design tho

hollow canyon
#

its charge currently allows it to perform far better vs Tenonto than it does vs Utah

ocean wagon
#

we live in a world where something that has below average turning speed while running, is supposed to catch things that have above average turing speed while running

hollow canyon
alpine plover
#

When Cerato and Carno switch niches moment

#

Aken you're missing rn

hollow canyon
#

I'm not

#

Cerato's never been meant to be an animal that punches up, the devs have only mentioned in the passing that it might be a honey badger as in - capable of defending itself from larger predators.

#

Nothing about it suggests it's going to be going after the big game

ocean wagon
hollow canyon
#

matter of fact it's like the last animal that should be doing that

dusky surge
alpine plover
#

In your own words "How can something be a small game hunter, when it can't catch things"
Then "It can hunt smalls just fine, it doesn't need to run the thing you're chasing down"

hollow canyon
ocean wagon
#

no im too small brain, please explain

hollow canyon
#

Carno is faster than Dryo , your human isn't faster than the rabbit you're talking about

ocean wagon
#

i'll give you the speed advantage

hollow canyon
#

And trust me - if that human was faster than that rabbit - that rabbit isn't getting away

#

Yea, that human will catch it

#

easily

ocean wagon
#

you are cracked on on drugs and you suddenly can run faster than the r-

#

ladies and gentle

dusky surge
#

how

ocean wagon
#

no

dusky surge
#

how the fuck

ocean wagon
#

it just does

dusky surge
#

are you going to catch a rabbit with your bare hands

hollow canyon
#

If you had a rabbit you might know

ocean wagon
alpine plover
#

Smh forget the hyperbole
Back on main topic

dusky surge
#

what

hollow canyon
#

Yea, it's a terrible example, idk why you came up with it, it doesn't prove your point at all and it doesn't reflect the situation in the game at all

#

You're also just dead wrong

#

I've actually had a rabbit and yes, I could catch it

ocean wagon
#

bro this man is god

alpine plover
#

Point is, Carno should not be brawling
Catching? Absolutely
It should brawl things off like juvies, Austro's, Troodons, and Raptors.
But it should not be geared for combat as it is currently given it's speed

hollow canyon
#

Carno shouldn't be brawling utahs or austros

dusky surge
hollow canyon
#

What are you even talking about?

#

Those animals are a fraction of its size

alpine plover
#

Carno has little drawbacks for how good it is. Cerato could never oppress the ecosystem the same way as Carno does

ocean wagon
hollow canyon
#

Carno is good currently because the rest of the roster is overnerfed

alpine plover
#

Then power creep the roster
Problem solved

hollow canyon
#

You don't have to powercreep the roster

alpine plover
#

Also forget the rabbit argument, it'll take us in circles

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto is just hotgarbage - its main attack has lost 30% of its firepower while keeping the same stamina cost

#

Utah's pounce is buggy and can't be used reliably

#

Carno's charge is the one thing that needs a nerf - it shouldn't be instafracturing Tenonto(or even fracturing anything at all imo)

alpine plover
#

Powercreep doesn't mean raw power neccesarily
Just added avenues for tactics and viability

hollow canyon
#

This isn't a powercreep though, a vast part of the roster has been hit with a nerf across the board in 3.75, including Utah and Carno. Tenonto was the only one that got out of that relatively unscathed, however its turn came in the mechanic test where its damage got nerfed by a tonne without any compensation. All of this was done to create a greater difference between the large animals like Deino and Stego and the smalls and medium animals like Carno, Teno and Utah.

#

Giving QoL buffs to Tenonto would not be a powercreep

#

it would be merely restoring some of the power that it lost in the last update(the mechanic test).

#

Utah on the other hand just needs a fix to its pounce, idk what to say about this animal. It will very likely get much better if its main offensive tool starts working as intended rather than working only half the time

alpine plover
#

Well Carno did get some pampering and a relatively buff looking at it
Restoring the power wouldn't mean enough since the binding or restricting of player's capabilities as a special ability is extraordinarily powerful as an effect by itself.

hollow canyon
#

The only thing Carno got in the QA branch was the broken fracture on its charge

#

It got nerfs aside from that

#

but all the other animals simply got hit much harder

#

and the fracture is just way too strong on it

alpine plover
#

If a Teno could hold off a Carno like the previous update. The teno still loses since it's hit with a dramatic loss in agility, and it's immobile enough for reinforcements to arrive in the Carno's favour. While also restricting fellow Teno players of coming to their herd mates aid

#

(Talking about fracture charge)

#

Even if Carno's bite did 50% less damage, and had dramatically less health

hollow canyon
#

There should be no fracture on charge imo, idk what more to say about this - a single ability shouldn't do 3 things at once

alpine plover
#

It'd be considerably powerful for that reason alone

hollow canyon
#

Yea because one ability fractures, knocks down/staggers and does damage all at once

#

No attack should do that many things at once

#

it's just absurd

#

Carno shouldn't be reliant on fracturing stuff anyways. It should rely on applying its CC with the charge and finishing its target with the bites

alpine plover
#

Tbh, I don't know what the fuck kind of tests were they thinking
You have legacy bone break on an already powerful fast playable

#

What kind of feedback were they expecting that needed tweaking?

hollow canyon
#

That's probably because balance is not at the forefront according to the devs

#

They aren't working on it

#

and very likely won't be for quite some time yet

#

we're only supposed to test the diets

#

and fractures

alpine plover
#

Kind of a ridiculous standpoint for design

hollow canyon
#

I'm not going to argue with that

alpine plover
#

Balance means things are working as intended fairly, and harsh enough

hollow canyon
#

I disagree with a number of things when it comes to the mechanic test and the last patches but that's a different story. As it is the devs aren't currently focused on balance, it will very likely be the last thing they will address when they the feedback on fractures and diets and then apply the intended changes.

alpine plover
#

Likely, still some things weren't worth adding given the features are incomplete as they are. Especially when it's only in a game breaking state.
If fractures are incomplete to that degree delay them for a patch

marble pond
#

Teno needs to be breaking some bones.

hollow canyon
#

I'm not entirely sure - are the fractures intended to have different levels of severity? I could've sworn that was supposed to be a thing but based on what I've seen so far it doesn't seem like what we're getting.

alpine plover
#

There's not much valuable feedback to be had then just repeated point of "this is obviously broken"
From everyone unanimously

sinful cove
#

if they are ignoring balance in order to test fractures they are going about things wrong, it is very hard to test a combat feature when combat is so disgustingly skewed to one side

hollow canyon
#

I'm pretty sure they are testing diets

#

fractures seem like an afterthought

sinful cove
#

if their focus is diets why even add fracture to begin with

hollow canyon
#

all the questions we've been asked so far were regarding the diets

alpine plover
#

True

hollow canyon
#

Because they were already in a... ermm... "ready" state I guess?

#

I agree it would've been better if we were to just test the diets

sinful cove
#

texst diets by bloating one side of the roster and heavily oppressing the other?

alpine plover
#

Not a whisper of fractures lately other than months ago when they were gassing this feature up

hollow canyon
#

fractures as of right now are just a nuisance

#

and work terribly

sinful cove
#

do they not care about utah diets either?

dusky surge
hollow canyon
#

I had a feeling that was supposed to be a thing

#

in that case yea I suppose it makes sense

dusky surge
#

yea it is, it's literally on the trello card

#

but without those minor fractures in

#

teno is suffering

sinful cove
#

hard to test teno diet when there are 500 carnos steamrolling everybody on sight. hard to test utah diet when there are 500 carnos steamrolling everybody in sight

hollow canyon
#

I've only taken a glance at the trello, I don't actually view the roadmap all that often

#

To be fair - Tenonto's diet was being tested prior to the introduction of Carno

#

But I agree that the balance could be addressed now so that we have a more realistic data for each playable

sinful cove
#

and what about utah

hollow canyon
#

Utah's just a joke of an animal atm

alpine plover
#

It was more of a bug fixing test
Since it was an artificial environment with the map as a farm

#

Until Carno came

hollow canyon
#

As I said above - idk what to say about this. It's just absolutely awful and it will be awful as long as its main offensive ability remains this bugged

sinful cove
#

and how are they going to test hwo easily carno can realistically keep up its diet when they overtune it so much

alpine plover
#

It's pretty much a Fox in the hen house, but it's a group of ten Foxes

sinful cove
#

fox in a teno house

hollow canyon
#

And the hens have all been blinded and maimed

alpine plover
#

The clucking and feathers cluttering is still going as we speak

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto is not a hard animal to fix though, I'm more worried about Utah tbh

alpine plover
#

Don't know how they fucked Utah this bad when it just needed tweaks

hollow canyon
#

The issue is that it's entirely reliant on its pounce now, meanwhile this is the most buggy ability since the very beginning of Evrima

alpine plover
#

You could reliably and safely pounce a Stego as long as you hit it's front shoulders

hollow canyon
#

It might take ages to fix it

alpine plover
#

Then they decided not tweak it

#

But revamp it to a buggy mess

#

And then made it absolutely dependent on it's buggy pounce

#

And then nerf it's hp and damage so it could only rely on it

#

While said pounce already has several means of counter play and bucking

#

And missing a pounce in of itself puts you in a terrible position

#

Frankly, it's nearly treading waters of becoming "a bad animal"

#

Since even Carno's smaller than Utah can shatter it's legs

#

And anything it can hunt is considerably unattainable if the pounce decides to work or not

dusky surge
#

remember when utah was good and everyone complained and made fun of utah mains and now carnos are OP and those same people are nowhere to be seen

#

incredible

alpine plover
#

Yeah, you love to see it

#

It deserved the nerf it got in update 2 when it 4 shotted Stegos

#

If things are unbalanced and not working as intended that are detriment to the roster

#

Changes are needed

dusky surge
#

also when utah was "OP" I had far less issues with it than I do with current carno

alpine plover
#

But nerfing things out of nothing other than spite is terrible in reasons that shouldn't need to explained

#

Yeah

#

Utah's health was low enough to be able to consistently kill

dusky surge
#

utah was at best overtuned in update 3.5, not at all the fucking broken god everyone said it was

alpine plover
#

Teno slams/kicks did the trick
Deino slaughtered them

#

Carno had reasonably favoured matchups

#

Dryo could get away, and Stego's could rely on counterplay other than bucking(it's jab and whole combat design was still trash tho, not the Utah's fault)

#

Where was the issue really?

dusky surge
#

high HP and damage I think

alpine plover
#

I think it's because some good players were exploiting terrible play on the Teno's and Carno's fault

#

As a Teno, I never had issues with Utah unless they had a scary amount of pack members

#

Even then, I was still able to reliably get away in the forest in a chase

#

Same thing with Carno, landing headshots or holding your ground near terrain while letting them come to you to counter was a viable strategy

hollow canyon
#

No, the issue was that Utah was bloating out the HP pools and biteforces of larger animals

#

We had a 350N Carno because Utah had so much HP

#

Carno should've never had that much biteforce and neither should Utah have had that much hp

#

Stego had 4 times the HP of a Utah while being over 10 times larger

alpine plover
#

Watering the combat down because “it’s not a fighting game “ is a terrible misunderstanding of variation expression. Interesting things happening is a good thing given that it’s not ridiculously game breaking

#

And yes, I do agree that it needed an hp nerf

#

But that’s about where I draw the line

#

Utahs should be dodging and weaving

#

Not tanking

hollow canyon
#

the biteforce was an issue too - it was pushing Carno's biteforce up to the point where it was close to Deino. All those smaller animals in general had way too much damage and too much hp.

#

If Utah's biteforce didn't get a nerf it would be not that far behind Carno atm. Admittedly I do think it could use a slight buff to it

alpine plover
#

It needed tweaking yes

dusky surge
#

i can agree on that. deino feels more impressive now with its 500N biteforce

alpine plover
#

But it’s really just pecking now

#

You think Deinos bite is gonna be a fracture machine?

dusky surge
#

id be upset if it didnt cause fracture

#

its an 8 ton gator it deserves fracture on that bite

alpine plover
#

As long as it multiple on layers

#

It’d suck as a stego to be ganged after getting hit just once while drinking

dusky surge
#

i mean, yea

alpine plover
#

Idk

#

Devs are just nerfing things in the wrong way

#

If your tire is flat, you fix it with a new one or repair it.

#

You don't replace the whole car

final temple
frosty heron
dusky surge
#

true, legacy utah was utterly fucked

#

but legacy itself is utterly fucked

sinful cove
#

Evrima utah's “overpowered” balance problems at the time mostly only stemmed from problems with other dinos and not the utah itself

frosty heron
#

People should forget Legacy at this point and not compare Evrima with it

sinful cove
#

Like stegos having shit coverage, during the time that utahs soloed them with biting

#

It wasnt a utah problem

dusky surge
#

not until it's erased entirely will it be forgotten

sinful cove
#

Now in qa its a utah problem cus the devs shafted every dino except carno and adult stego

frosty heron
sinful cove
#

Stego was getting rekt by dryos at that time too

#

It was comical

wild cove
dusky surge
#

well tbf, legacy carno couldn't brawl

wild cove
#

Exactly

hollow canyon
#

It couldn't do much of anything really, the only thing it was good at was hunting... Maia I guess?

#

And maybe Cerato

frosty heron
#

Sadly Legacy Carno had more personality in terms of gameplay than Evrima Carno

frosty heron
#

Hope that would not be the case on Evrima

dusky surge
#

i dont even like legacy but carno was probably the best done in that game

hollow canyon
#

I disagree, it was a meme animal for the most part. It wasn't bad per se but it wasn't particularly good at anything.

dusky surge
#

it couldn't be tailridden because it could run fast, but at the same time, couldn't brawl

hollow canyon
#

I always found it funny how terrible Carno was against small animals like Dilo and Utah.

#

It was good against Cerato and Maia though

#

Maia being the only one that mattered since just about anything was good against Cerato

frosty heron
#

I had also better stamina workout , having a decent drain while recovering it while sitting was slow , our current Carno is the opposite

hollow canyon
#

Yea that was a terrible design

#

animal that fast shouldn't have the stamina to run for ages

frosty heron
hollow canyon
#

Doesn't matter

frosty heron
#

So if you drain it all you have to stay sitting for way longer

hollow canyon
#

That's a part of the poor design - you had an animal that was the fastest in the game barring an ambushing Utah, which ran for ages. If anything could get hit by that it was just certain to die because there was no way Carno was running out of stamina. At the same time it had a pretty awful stamina regeneration which caused it to have a tonne of downtime = more afking, which was already the biggest issue with the legacy.

#

Just a terrible design all around

frosty heron
hollow canyon
#

I think they were okay, Dilo was the better designed animal out of the two. The issue between them and Carno was that Carno posed very little to no threat to them to the point where it could just be ignored by a player who knew how to evade it.

#

And I think it was badly designed in that it wasn't a good animal to play against or to play as. If it got removed from the roster in the legacy the game would have outright become better in my opinion.

frosty heron
#

I dunno , Legacy Carno has a high survavility and if you die with it, its because you either made a mistake or you decided to jump in a fight that is not by any means easy to win

hollow canyon
#

Yea, that's one of the issues with it

#

it's absurdly safe and not very capable of doing much against a competent player

frosty heron
#

And that made it both boring but attractive to play if we consider the grow times it had

hollow canyon
#

I think it made it just boring

#

Idk in what world legacy Carno was attractive to play, I only ever picked it when I was playing with someone that was new to the game because it was a good starting dino since you literally don't die with it unless you mess up really badly

#

Just an afk part of the background

frosty heron
#

Last time I played Legacy Carno I got so bored of it that I decided to fight a full Sub Rex at night , I died but if I wanted to I could survive that fight , but after being playing it for 3 days straight

hollow canyon
#

That's a part of the reason why I call it a badly designed playable

frosty heron
#

You can mess up with Carno couple more times and survive

hollow canyon
#

In my opinion that makes it pretty much just a good animal for the new players but it also makes it extremely boring.

#

I hope the legacy carno dies with the legacy

frosty heron
#

Which is what Legacy Carno is xD

hollow canyon
#

I don't think any animal should be boring

frosty heron
#

I was hoping Evrima Carno to be less New player friendly

#

And actually require a bit of thinking on hunting methods, ambush prey and stuff like that

hollow canyon
#

I think Tenonto might just be the only animal that isn't really new player friendly in Evrima

#

they - most playables - aren't really very hard to get a grasp on in general

thorn heart
#

isn't the utah supposed to be a pack hunter???

marble pond
#

yeah, kinda. people want utah to 1v1 tenonto if the utah is good. that shouldn't really be possible unless the teno is already severely damaged, or stupid enough to stick around and take multiple pounces to bleed it out.

lapis inlet
marble pond
#

i think utah solo-ing dryo and smaller should be good enough. especially if dryo is going to be a part of its finalized diet.

lapis inlet
#

i like to compare utahs to lions because they share similarities. lions are fully capable to hunt on its own but use more energy hunting and is riskier to do if its hunting bigger prey. i think utahs are or should be the same way

#

i think a utah should be able to solo a teno with EXTREME caution but currently they do no damage and no bleed so its practically impossible...

marble pond
#

utah does quite heavy bleed in the public QA branch

lapis inlet
#

in QA they aint too bad but in evrima.....

primal dove
#

wait you´re right, I played carno yesterday and I was at 75% and a full adult utah bit me 4 times and I kept running around and got to 35% bleed in like 2 minutes