balance-feedback-discussion

[tacit oriole]

Teno can sort of run - but slower than Carno and Utah, and sort of evade - if there's a good rock - but it's mostly combat focused

The stun is janky but I feel like fractures will probably replace it for large stuff

[ocean wagon]

Why doesn’t teno do head fractures to carno

Seriously

[coarse barn]

Normie Carnos are cringe though

Overpopulation

And the juvie carno rat infestation

[twilit kestrel]

If Carnos diet consisted of mostly Carnos being the most beneficial diet, I'm sure this huge infestation wouldn't be the case...

[mellow zenith]

the carno population just sustain itself lmao

[cedar shore]

that only really makes things worse

[sinful cove]

Carnos are already killing eachother a lot, this would only give them incentive to eat the bodies after, it would make the problem way worse

[full torrent]

Idk man I've always ran into mega packs of like 5 or 6 carnos still, yesterday they were everywhere

[sinful cove]

yeah and theyre constantly killing juvies and solo carnos, adding cannibalism to their diet would only fuel the megapacks

[ocean wagon]

on a side note back to the teno vs carno discourse, they need to up the damage of a tenos tail slam. There's no reason why carno should be tanking damn near an entire stam bar worth of tail slams from teno to be killed.

their concept art even shows a solo teno fending off two ADULT carnos

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664914260648001555/776231272061206548/Carnotaurustapwing.jpg

[stark knoll]

Concept art is not indicative of balance

[ocean wagon]

so you think its ok that solo carnos are bulling brawler dinos in similiar weight classes

[stark knoll]

That is not what I said lmao

I think a carno v teno should be a fair/even fight

That doesn't seem to be the case on the current qa patch

[ocean wagon]

may I ask why you think that? (actually curious)

[stark knoll]

While teno is slightly smaller than carno, its brawling and fracture capabilities give it a fair defensive advantage. Carno is based on hit-and-run tactics

IMO teno v carno should be highly dependent on skill

Either getting the "jump" and fracturing the other should be the end of it

[ocean wagon]

teno fractures carno?? since when?

[stark knoll]

Tailslam

[ocean wagon]

yes, in the current QA branch?

[stark knoll]

Yep

[ocean wagon]

Because I laid half a stam bar onto a carno using my tail slam, and it was fine

[sinful cove]

Teno tailslam barely fractures carno you can slam it 3 times and itll still be running around like nothing happened

But it cripples teno in one charge

[stark knoll]

Fractures right now are extremely one-sided

I'm pretty sure carno's current fracture damage is either bugged or unintended

[full torrent]

Luckily this is a mech test to test these kinds of things so they can fix it and balance it all out

[ocean wagon]

i havent really gotten to test the entirety of the fracture system, ik they plan to add in more, but can you only fracture your legs atm?

[stark knoll]

There's already body and head fractures in

[ocean wagon]

oh so carnos head must be made of steel ig

[cedar shore]

Its pretty broken, doesnt seem to work..

[spare badger]

Tenos should get a lot of fracture damage if they keep this new damage nerf

[unborn iris]

Carno isn't that strong, everyone just wants to play the strongest dino so they play carno? And doesn't it do 200 bite damage already?

[runic rampart]

Arguably the carno is much stronger than the Utah at all stages. Carnos starting bite force is wayyyyyy better than starting Utah and remains so for a little while until the Utah gets about 50%-60% grown. Seems most carnivores bites get stronger about half way through growth.

[tacit oriole]

I think you can only fracture things below your own weight

[ocean wagon]

If that is the case, that’s incredibly stupid

[sinful cove]

Thats an unbelievably stupid balance decision

Only the already stronger dino in the fight can utilize a crippling ability? RIP any defensive herbi that relies on it

If this shit stays then anky and both pachies may as well just never be added

[ocean wagon]

Literally

[runic rampart]

It is probably less a “you weigh less so I can cripple you” issue and probably more to do with the fact that most carnivores weigh less than the teno and stego currently. Based on what data I can find on the teno, carno only out weighs it when it is essentially fully grown. Which doesn’t happen very often in my experience. Like I wanna say 1/10 carnos I see if not less are 100% grown. But I also haven’t played since they introduced cannibalism with carnos.

[wild cove]

"Carno can only run around for 30 seconds with its stam" In what universe

Playing a Carno with bad diet and cannibal debuff still gives you like 2-3 minutes at least to just sprint around lol

[ocean wagon]

Yeah I saw that and just assumed it was a joke

[tacit oriole]

May mean charge, which was 21s in U3.5

[tacit oriole]

I have heard that carno charges can head fracture adult stegos but I don't have high confidence in that. So I could be completely wrong

Just an assumption because I'm 90% sure you can get at least head fractures on sub carnos as adult teno

But I don't think you can do it on adults

[wraith galleon]

21

[tacit oriole]

21 or 17, I actually don't have it written down so relying on memory

It's a bit inexact because of the sprint windup

@alpine plover "Carno isn't too strong because it's meant to hunt Utah" while carno absolutely rolls teno. "Buff carno so it can fight stego" which it absolutely shouldn't and yet still is

Nobody is upset about carno vs Utah except for juvy stages and the broke af pounce

[sinful cove]

Putting stego on carno's diet instead of teno is just another outrageous decision from this wa patch to add to the pile

Teno should be a challenge for carno, a rewarding kill that can feed 2-3 carnos, it should not be hunting adult stegos

Carnos still inhale food like industrial garbage disposals right

[tacit oriole]

Trying to address carnos rolling tenos by excluding tenos from their diet seems a bit short sighted

People don't just hunt for food

[tacit oriole]

Would also like someone to report on this, I refuse to add to the carno plague numbers and find out myself

[sinful cove]

Honestly im too spiteful to roll carno too lmao

I like to play both factions 50/50 but when its so one-sided it just bums me out

[tacit oriole]

Yeah. I'm a sucker for playing the underdog

[thin mantle]

@cedar shore While I don’t agree Pachy should be the ONLY animal with fracture, it is needlessly given to carno for literally no reason other than to make it an op freight train with no weaknesses or statistical drawbacks. Ramming into a teno at 60 kmh face first as a fucking Carno should powder use the disks in your neck, it already has CC, it doesn’t need fracture which rn is pretty busted strong

[alpine plover]

Keep in mind the devs haven’t even finished fractures and there are no stages yet. So carno gives the same fracture each time currently. Now what I will say is that stego is currently the only actual big creature besides deino. And teno/Utah are sorta smaller creatures (not really teno but it’s not that big compared to other mid tiers) so carno in theory has a slightly easier time with them than perhaps a maia or para. I think once they actually finish fractures carnos ram won’t be as annoying anymore

[thin mantle]

Basically my point is that it’s an incredibly high damage attack, with a CC, with fracture, attached to the fastest Dino in game. And teno got a damage nerf so it can’t even outdamage carnos anymore

Not to mention that logistically speaking, a Carno charging a teno would demolish carnos skull and neck to an irreparable degree, it dealing fracture damage just adds precedent to this

[sinful cove]

Funny how only the already apex land carnivore got fracture and all tenonto got was a fat damage nerf and no fracture

Very interesting

Must have been a total accident

[alpine plover]

I think the only reason carno got fractured is cause of its horns. Don’t ask me why it just did. I will say tenanto does need to be brought back to how it was

[sinful cove]

Yeah carno has horns but tenonto is slamming you with a big ass slab of muscle and bone so there’s no excuse for carno to have frac while teno doesn't

Especially with the massive damage nerf

[wild cove]

Honestly, Carno should be the one getting fractures using charge on bigger dinos lol

[thin mantle]

Ikr!? And a new status effect in game called powdered bones which makes the afflicted part of the body all floompy and jiggly with literally no structure

[wild cove]

😂

I'd honestly like to see Carno have a knockdown from ramming things it shouldn't or potentially tripping on shit when chasing. Like charge into a Stego side? Get bodied. Run too fast into a tree? Knock yourself down. Try to run over a log in your way? Trip on your face.

Probably won't happen though 🙃

Or maybe tripping on shit when it has muscle spasms instead of just randomly biting at nothing

The cannibal debuffs are honestly really stupid and don't feel like they impede gameplay at all imo

[vagrant mural]

While I agree on the no carno fractures, fractures on teno would be just as bad

[ocean wagon]

how so?

teno is more of a stand your ground type of dinosaur. Sure you can try to run a utah or carno down, but you wont have any stamina to use any of your heavy attacks

besides, all of the carnivores that would get affected by teno having fractures would either be too fast for a teno to even catch or too small and agile for a teno to even consider using its heavy attacks

like i see cera and teno being the same speed roughly but they're both being pushed out to be brawlers. And I seriously dont think a teno will be faster than a dilo. Herrera will be able to climb trees and all of the other small carnivore playables would just get one shot by teno regardless if they use their heavy attacks or not, or they would simply be too agile to hit

[sinful cove]

Fracture is way less broken on a defensive herbi or a slower carni brawler like cera and rex than on the fastest dino in the game

[ocean wagon]

ptsd of legacy rex ambush being the same speed as a utah

[sinful cove]

It was at least easy to dodge i guess lol

[vagrant mural]

isn't teno an offensive herb-

[sinful cove]

its a brawler, dont think any herb is really 'offensive'

its slower than its predators

an offensive herb would be like theri in legacy that ran down allos and that was a balance disaster

[vagrant mural]

pachy and theri are the only ones I can think of

also theri being fast isn't bad, its just the fact it rand down allos which sucked ass

[sinful cove]

pachy is slower than it predators in legacy and will probably stay that way in evrima

theri being fast is fine but it shouldnt be fast enough to run down and slaughter mid tiers like that lol

[vagrant mural]

agreed lmao

[sinful cove]

it might not even be an herbi anymor ein evrima too idk yet

could go to the omni roster

[vagrant mural]

it could

but like idk I'd prefer we get something in the middle of the roster before adding another big boi omni

[sinful cove]

yeah its weird that we have a tiny tier omni and then suddenly deinocheirus and possibly theri

we have no mid tier omnis like gigantoraptor

[vagrant mural]

we go from ovi and beipi, to galli, to fucking cheirus

[sinful cove]

yeah its fuckin crazy lol

small tiers and psuedo apex and an apex

[vagrant mural]

I'll be honest, I've never been a fan of gigantoraptor, but if its the only choice for a mid tier omni I guess I can live with that

real one is cool, I just don't like the idea of it in game

[sinful cove]

it could be weird to balance

looks like a very fast dino and would have powerful kicks

basically hyper galli

[vagrant mural]

my main issue with it is how it adds to the fuckery with ovi and galli

[sinful cove]

yeah they all seem like the same animals in different tiers

[vagrant mural]

and how people wanted it to like 2 shot allos and be carno speed

[sinful cove]

i hope ovi gets something special but there's nothing yet

[vagrant mural]

the only thing anyone can think of (that isn't conceptually ridiculous imo) is it being able to eat everything

just super generalist

[ocean wagon]

no i really wouldnt say teno is an offense herbi. Brawler =/= offensive, Teno is for sure a defensive herbi. Its agility and variety of attacks make it a Brawler

ntm all of tenos heavy hitting attacks are in the back of it

[sinful cove]

brawlers have some ability to punish careless carnis more than pure defensives like stego

meaning they have some ability to pursue but are still very avoidable

[ocean wagon]

yeah

but in no means is it an offensive dinosaur

[sinful cove]

i cant see ovi being an 'eat everything' kind of omni, his mouth doesnt look suited for that

[cedar shore]

@quick rampart POV you have barely played the game

[barren oracle]

carno will be off meta as soon as a larger carnivore is released

[spare badger]

Or even cerato tbh
With all the new stuff it's getting

[barren oracle]

Cerato is a bully brawler

i imagine it could steal corpses from carnos

[spare badger]

Ye

[barren oracle]

but i cant see it killing one without the jump on it

[spare badger]

It should be a stocky boi

Like a hyena

[barren oracle]

should be extra *** T H I C C ***

[ocean wagon]

I wonder if carno will be able to fracture Cerato too like with teno

[ocean wagon]

Weren’t we promised that pounce would slow down targets when latched on?

I find it very off that a carno that’s roughly the same size as me but is just out of my pinnable weight can run full sprint with an adult Utah clawing it’s organs out

Same goes for Utah pouncing teno

[sinful cove]

“My carno pack sucks at defending its juvies” or “utah can kill juvies”

Neither of those is really an argument for carno not being an absolute menace or utah being good rn

[sinful cove]

Utah shouldnt be “fast and agile and tanky” lmao, he just needs to be fast and agile so good players can avoid being hit in the first place and trash players die

[cedar shore]

@sweet jacinth yeah, no

[sweet jacinth]

To what in particular? You haven't said anything.

[sweet jacinth]

I mentioned action related bleed, more specifically blood loss due to running/sprinting is kind of low. It was not my intention to make a case for either of those points you mentioned.

[stark cargo]

Safe logging and having your full grown deino not exist anymore for no reason is NOT OK.

[cedar shore]

From how i see it, you seem to think the carno utah matchup is in a well balanced spot right now which is just... no

[sweet jacinth]

I never touched legacy and am only semi recent to evrima. I'm also no dinosaur expert.

With that being said, is a 1v1 based on the proposed design of the dinos even meant to be viable? I mean it doesn't seem like it should be. From what I've read it looks like people are upset that Utahs can't reliably 1v1 adult carnos which I don't really see as a problem per se...

[cedar shore]

Im not sure where you are getting that people complain about utahs beeing able to 1v1 carnos, noone is saying that. What people ARE complaining about is how carno got buffed even futher in this update giving its charge fracture, making it completely destroy tenos which should be a 1 to 1 matchup. Carnos are also stupidly strong against utahs and a good carno could easily take on a pack of 6 or more utahs now that the pounce got nerfed even further in this update. Utah has been continuesly nerfed to the ground since update 2 came out and people just wana be able to play them and actually hunt something.

[ocean wagon]

I don’t think anyone has wanted Utah to be able to solo a carno in a head on fight

[ocean wagon]

Where are you getting this from?

[sly pilot]

I think that Yuta is a universal hunter, in my opinion he can kill anyone dinos, this also balances his small reserve of health

[alpine plover]

I'm sorry to correct you my friend, but it is Utah not Yuta. Don't mean to be rude ^^"

[sinful cove]

Carno is too good and easy enough to grow which makes them way too appealing in comparison to the rest of the roster. One dino shouldn’t be that appealing in comparison to everything else it just begs for ecosystem collapse

[crystal wharf]

carno needs a bit of a tune down
tenonto needs a bit of a buff
utah needs fixes

utah is fine apart from its pounce being buggy, people are sadly still scream crying about the fact that they cant tank a bite from something 16x their size and run off at full speed anymore

[sinful cove]

Tenonto got a fat nerf so i think he needs a fat buff back, not just a bit

He is slower than his predators and fodder because carno hits like a freight train with its charge

[crystal wharf]

its damage was the only thing that got nerfed hard really
fractures are a bitch to deal with because of how incomplete they are

so just buff its damage back and wait till fracture are done

[sinful cove]

Yea basically what i meant, it got a fat combat nerf

Which is stupid af for a brawler herbi

[crystal wharf]

agree

[sly pilot]

[frosty heron]

Yeah , "Utah its fine" cant even kill an afk sitting Carno with the joke bitteforce it has and the ridiculous amount of bleed it deals

[neat forge]

Utah needs a overall Buff and a highly Pounce Buff

[crystal wharf]

oh wow
could you imagine
being encouraged to use your special ability instead of your basic bite
un fucking believable

[crystal wharf]

it needs a pounce fix, that is all
maybe an ever so slight nerf to bucking effectiveness

[neat forge]

dont share your opinion

[crystal wharf]

why

does it not fit your idea of utah being able to tank deino bites and run away at top speed?

does it not fit your ideas of utahs 1v1ing stegos?

[neat forge]

nope but Utah dont is not a glass canon but just glass and nothing else atm

wont argure against a fact so im just not your opinion and thats it

[crystal wharf]

oh wow

pounce is bugged

and utah is 100% reliant on its pounce to kill big things

hmm

i wonder where all of its damage went

[frosty heron]

Yeah im encouraged to the hability that doesnt even properly works 😂

[crystal wharf]

well
maybe the solution is fixing the fucking ability, instead of boosting everything else about it

but i guess thats too advanced of a concept for some people to grasp

[frosty heron]

Imagine going for a bleedout on AFK people and when you try to pounce the guy it just dont happen

[frosty heron]

Even fixing the pounce, Utah should get q bit of damage increase to at least 75-80 N , I kinda understand an AFK Stego but a Carno? Damn thats pathethic

[neat forge]

you can copy the same on carno

nerf everything but buff charge hmmmm

[crystal wharf]

why do you want a damage buff to the bite
you shouldnt be using the bite

[neat forge]

i mean hes an ambusher so he dont need to bite and alt bite hmmmm

[crystal wharf]

@neat forge its almost like their two entirely different animals
amazing concept i know

[neat forge]

ok nice excuse i guess besides Carno playes like a utha with no charge hmmm

[crystal wharf]

dude
you could not reach harder if you fucking tried

you deal 20% of a stegos blood pool in a single pounce

[frosty heron]

Because not being able to kill , I repeat, an AFK Carno before the guy notices, its just dumb , god even raw numers are stupid considering the locational multipliers

[crystal wharf]

and utah is the only animal that benefits from the changes to wallowing

[crystal wharf]

DONT BITE YOU IDIOT

[neat forge]

and then the stamina is zero and im dead gg

[frosty heron]

[dawn dew]

What’s the issue exactly?

[crystal wharf]

jump off before you use all your stamina?
what do you not get about this concept

[tall bronze]

Hey what's going o-

Anyways it was great chatting, seeya 👋

[frosty heron]

You just had to jump straight into insults

[neat forge]

Carno has Bleed too and the bleed

[neat forge]

so no 20%

gg

[crystal wharf]

carno cant drain a stego dry in 5 bites

[crystal wharf]

thats with jumping off

[dawn dew]

Wait what’s being argued here exactly

[crystal wharf]

they are trying to use pounce being broken as an excuse to buff utahs bite damage for some reason

[frosty heron]

This guy wants people to be pouncing afk carnos

[neat forge]

Utah either

[dawn dew]

Utahs bite damage is fine from what I’ve played, puts down smaller animals which is what it’s supposed to do

[unborn iris]

Buff utah, nerf carno, cant kill stuff, die alot.. the usual.

[dawn dew]

Utah doesn’t need a buff besides the pounce that isn’t working properly

[vagrant mural]

^

[dawn dew]

And maybe inertia fixes

[crystal wharf]

no
because utah uses its pounce to do it
and its completely invincible when it teleports onto the side of the stego

[neat forge]

cries in 75 bite force

[red moon]

The pounce is the only thing that needs work, because its just actually not working correctly. thats really it

[toxic crypt]

Why would the devs purposefully encourage you to play utah incorrectly?

[neat forge]

uhu

[dawn dew]

Puts down things smaller than yourself in a few bites

You aren’t supposed to be biting big things. Hell you aren’t supposed to be fighting them at all solo

[red moon]

why are you biting with a utah

[crystal wharf]

you dont need a 75 n bite force
you'd be more than fine with 50
if its actually 75 then they are being very generous

[unborn iris]

There are uses for bite. Raw damage is not one of them.

[toxic crypt]

That utah eats even teno is beyond what could be expected for anything else in its tier. It punches outside of its weight class more than anything in the game.

[dawn dew]

Utah bite is just for hunting smalls

[red moon]

yes

[frosty heron]

Why pounce if it doesnt works

[crystal wharf]

20% of a stegos blood pool in a single pounce moment

[dawn dew]

Which is what you should be doing alone unless you’re really good (doesn’t exist with Utah players)

[unborn iris]

Even for smalls, alt bite is the way to go.

[red moon]

fix the pounce and now utah is fine again.

[crystal wharf]

you realize they will fix the pounce
its not a reason to buff the shit out of an attack utah shouldnt be using

[frosty heron]

Imagine Pouncing AFK peopñe also

[red moon]

Im not understanding what you want

[dawn dew]

Pounce fixes are already confirmed to be otw

[crystal wharf]

i have no idea what you're trying to say here

[unborn iris]

Utah in mech test with pounce working like it should is in a good place. As a utah main.

[dawn falcon]

So like
Because pounce has an issue and you decide to use Bite instead of pounce and see that’s it’s pretty weak, Y’all get this glorious idea to buff Utah instead of fixing its pounce? What a game this has turned out to be LOL

[frosty heron]

Its the whole point ive been trying to say but people just dont get it

[red moon]

can you reiterate since we’re all here now

[toxic crypt]

Oh but bork, it can't 1v1 stego so clearly it must be underpowered!

[crystal wharf]

duh we dont get it
because you dont make any sense

[brisk quest]

carno is more than 3 times bigger than utah you're not supposed to bite it

[frosty heron]

Ah shut im done with you

[red moon]

???

[crystal wharf]

people want to 1v1 deino with it
you know
the thing with the stupidly great bleed resistance that can oneshot them with its basic bite

[dawn falcon]

Utah doesn’t need a buff whatsoever. I assure you Utah will beat the shit out of Carno if it’s pounce was fixed

[unborn iris]

^

[crystal wharf]

im not teasing your or insulting you
we cannot understand what you're trying to say here

[red moon]

^^

[toxic crypt]

Utah players aren't well known for their intelligence

[dawn falcon]

They probably go in for the bite while someone’s already pouncing a stego and the stego decides to yeet the biter instead of bucking.

[unborn iris]

I'm pretty sure normal mud to wallow in will be coming back in U4. Otherwise utah will be dumb OP.

[dawn dew]

While we’re on Utah balance

Seems they buffed recovery time on the pounce, I propose they bring back the thing where pouncing a tree knocks you down

[frosty heron]

Same goes for 90% of Herb players

[dawn dew]

Idk why they ever got rid of that

[dawn falcon]

They got rid of that? I never noticed

[brisk quest]

wait you cant knock them down with trees anymore? what

[toxic crypt]

At least they understand the role their dinosaur is supposed to play. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dawn dew]

You can, but before if a Utah pounced into a tree it would fall

[crystal wharf]

utahs matchup spread is very weird
it completely clobbers anything it can pin
and bleeds larger slower animals dry extremely fast
but gets clobbered back by animals that are larger than utah, but also not slow as fuck
ie
carno, tenonto, pachy, etc

[brisk quest]

oh okay, well thats still dumb

[dawn dew]

Yeah I want it back, especially since they buffed recovery

[frosty heron]

Oh excuse me never new my role was hunting Rabbits on packs because you cant hunt anything else

[crystal wharf]

nah
that led to some wonky shit with rocks that people liked to sit on, it would just deflect utahs trying to pounce

[red moon]

Pounce when it’s fixed >

[dawn falcon]

So a skill issue minus the bugs with pounce

[dawn dew]

Ah if it was buggy then that makes sense ig

[unborn iris]

Yeah, the tree thing was just an unintended side effect of fixing the failed pounces anywhere near rocks and stuff.

I would assume.

[dawn dew]

Utahs supposed to be hunting things in its size class and below alone

[crystal wharf]

you can bleed carnos and tenontos in 2 pounces
instead of crying that you need a buff because your ability is broken and is getting fixed
actually wait for it to get fixed

[toxic crypt]

If you are struggling to hunt anything bigger than a rabbit as a utah pack that has a workable pounce then you probably should try a new dino

[red moon]

unironically skill issue

[dawn dew]

If you really struggle to hunt larger animals in packs(excluding pounce bugs) that’s just a skill issue

[frosty heron]

People just thinks pounce will be fixed straight away and thats it , Utah OP again , lovely community we have , when its been shown that it has 3 or 4 major issues

[dawn dew]

Fix the pounce and it’s fine

[dawn falcon]

Which

Ftw it

Get this

Pounce bugs

[red moon]

which are

[toxic crypt]

What is wrong with it other than the pounce not working?

[dawn dew]

That’s all it needs, doesn’t need a bite force buff

[dawn falcon]

I still see no other issue besides pounce

[red moon]

what are the issues

[dawn dew]

Only other thing I can think of is inertia stuff

[dawn falcon]

Which was buffed afaik

[frosty heron]

Your values are absolutely incorrect, go play and test the fucking game before you talk kid

[dawn falcon]

No he’s right

[red moon]

what. are. the. other. issues.

[toxic crypt]

Lol, that's funny

[dawn falcon]

You can bleed them

Sounds like there’s a skill issue here

[frosty heron]

2 pounces ? Lmfao

[crystal wharf]

you do realize bleed takes time to set in
right
you cant kill them instantly with it

[dawn dew]

Lol

[frosty heron]

Oh yeah theres skill issue sure

[hollow canyon]

I think it wouldn't hurt if Utah got its biteforce buffed. Not by much but it could get a bit more oomph on its bite attack imo.

[red moon]

What are the other issues, mr. turokT-REX?

[toxic crypt]

My thoughts exactly. That's why I'm against a utah bite buff.

[crystal wharf]

its current bite value is fine
it doesnt need to clobber small animals even more

[dawn falcon]

I mean it really wouldn’t be that significant unless it was like a buff to 100n or something

[frosty heron]

People here has a lot of missinformation

[dawn falcon]

Or a bleed input increase

[dawn dew]

Utahs pounce is really good when it works

[toxic crypt]

Or maybe you're wrong?

[hollow canyon]

I mean I don't see a problem with it 2-shotting a Dryo. Utah is like 4 times larger than it.

[crystal wharf]

utah already 3 shots dryo with its bite
it doesnt need to 2 shot it

[red moon]

simple strategy: say something asinine, do not back your claim, make additional claims, disregard said claims, revert back to saying something asinine

[frosty heron]

How when im already test it , are you even considering bucking and pounce times ?

[dawn falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/ez-noob-skill-issue-simply-a-difference-in-skill-gif-20780203

[crystal wharf]

thing is
it can also pin it
why would it do that when it can instagib it with the bite
what about troodon, it already will get oneshot with a body shot, but with a buff even tail shots will do it in

[vagrant mural]

That’s the islecord way

[red moon]

One of us

one of us

[hollow canyon]

Let's be fair - the Dryo has to be either AI or asleep to get pinned by a Utah.

[dawn falcon]

Or ambushed

You can get ambushed by a bushtah easily

[red moon]

dryos are known to be asleep tbf

[dawn dew]

lets not forget utahs bite does bleed as well

[crystal wharf]

good on the dryo for escaping the instant death attack then

[hollow canyon]

Hasn't happened to me so far and most certainly not when I was a Dryo

[dawn falcon]

Carnos bite go brrr for some reason

[frosty heron]

The funny thing of most the people arguments here its attack others skill when they probably play Carno or Stego

[crystal wharf]

bushtahs are rare
mainly because the people that play utahs are sitting in #balance-feedback-discussion crying about it needing a buff instead of pouncing the dryo right infront of them

[hollow canyon]

No, Bork, I'm saying that while a Dryo can get pinned it will happen once in a blue moon because it's not going to get hit by the pounce unless the player controlling it tries to play the game by sitting on the keyboard.

[crystal wharf]

what are the issue turok

[hollow canyon]

I think it's ok the way it is now

[red moon]

so you dont like pounce and the other 3-4 main issues you mentioned dont exist then?

[frosty heron]

The issue is the community

[dawn falcon]

The funny thing here is that you made multiple claims and couldn’t back it up, then resorted to childish insults to extend your hierarchy

[red moon]

the utahs 4 main issues are the community

actually based

[hollow canyon]

3-4 times larger, Carno also twoshots it with alt bites(admittedly those are awful)

[frosty heron]

Why should I waste my time when you people dont even read what im saying

[dawn falcon]

Sorry your highness, but you can’t convince anyone with random acts of unkindness

[dawn dew]

This is just the isle equivalent of saying “society” whenever you’re wrong

[hollow canyon]

I don't think it would hurt if Utah got its iteforce buffed to 65N in general

[red moon]

I’ve literally asked you what the other issues are and you won’t respond dude

[dawn falcon]

Maybe because your statements were either “claims” and “not explaining further” or insulting people.

[red moon]

this is like throwing shit into a crowd, the crowd looks at you, and you go “guys cmon it was fake shit why are you looking at me”

[dawn falcon]

And some of those claims didn’t make any sense so

[frosty heron]

Also, argument with people with wrong values and dumb hate its just a no go, instead ill just make fun of your group spitting on others

[red moon]

????

Joker mentality

[dawn dew]

Society

[red moon]

Society is what’s wrong

[dawn falcon]

Wrong values when multiple people have already stated you can bleed out creatures and literally tried to disprove you?

Sorry your highness

[frosty heron]

2 pounces , yeah im still laughting at that

[dawn falcon]

Sounds like something you haven’t done, mister bunny hunter

[red moon]

You’re so hung up on the 2 pounces remark that you refuse to elaborate despite us being completely open to hearing the rest of your statement

society, ugh

[frosty heron]

Why argument, when you can just create stuff outta nowhere

[dawn dew]

[red moon]

Why argument, when you can just is how u do the game devilopmint

[dawn falcon]

Just explain further and maybe you’ll convince us instead of being reclusive and failing to elaborate further

Guess this whole time it was just a skill issue

Mkay

[frosty heron]

Im not gonna argument anything here its a law ive told to myself , just go watch the videos on #885026244444442655 of Utahs dying on latched Stegos or falling when trying to pounce Carnos

[red moon]

but

that’s the pounce being bugged, no?

you just gave 2 examples both pertaining to pounce

[brisk quest]

pounce being bugged doesnt mean utah should get a bug

[red moon]

which we all agreed is a bug

[brisk quest]

lets see how it survives once its actually functional then we can say buff or nerf utah

[red moon]

yes

[frosty heron]

Still , bitteforce is a joke

[brisk quest]

dont bite? you're not supposed to

[red moon]

Yeah, i’m not understanding this point

[brisk quest]

not big things at least

[dawn dew]

Why would we balance utahs bite force based on a bug

[frosty heron]

Then what I could do? Oh I have an idea , dont play Utah at all

[red moon]

you’re acknowledging that pounce is bugged, correct? then that means you’re also aware that utah is in fact supposed to primarily use it’s pounce

im having an aneurysm

what would YOU want the bite force to be?

genuine question

[dawn dew]

By the time they buff the bite force the bug will be fixed anyway

[brisk quest]

use pounce? form a pack? dont hunt things that are too big to tank your bites since you want to bite so much?

[frosty heron]

Ok my guy , lets put you on situation

You find a Carno sitting and AFK , what you gonna do? Form a Pack? Use pounce?

[dawn dew]

Wait for the bug to be fixed instead of trying to balance based on it

[frosty heron]

Make a Coffee and sit with him?

[dawn dew]

If you really couldn’t kill an afk carno that might just be on you

[frosty heron]

What dino do you play bud?

[brisk quest]

dont fuck with it if I'm alone because they might come back and kill me

[unborn iris]

Naahhhh.. you definitely start going ham on that carno head with alt bites.

[frosty heron]

[alpine plover]

Since they buffed juvies health and so weight, it take an absurd number of bites to kill them with the Utah bite, and you can't pin things smaller than you in appearance.

[dawn dew]

Utah pin shreds small things as does its bite

[frosty heron]

I cant trust that

[dawn falcon]

You shouldn’t be killing with raw damage though

Hell, I’ve seen 50% carnos die of blood loss from Utah’s alt bite. It’s a force to be reckoned with

If it manages to bite you a good amount of times and maybe put in a pounce, gg no re

[frosty heron]

Problem comes when you realize a 50% Carno has pretty much the weight of an adult Utah and it shouldnt that much of bites to die

Should be similar to Utah vs Utah bites

[hollow canyon]

If Carno has a similar weight to an adult Utah it will require a similar amount of bites to kill as an adult Utah would

[dawn falcon]

So you’re arguing that it looks silly to have to bite that many times even though balance clearly states you can bleed them out vs. raw damage?

[frosty heron]

And in the current build dont even think on pounce a 50% Carno

Doesnt work

[dawn falcon]

I’ve pounced 50% carnos (when pounce works) and ran into a bush and crouched away.

[dawn dew]

Almost like a 50% carno is like 700 kg give or take

[alpine plover]

Nerf weight of juvies and hatchlings

[dawn falcon]

lol

[frosty heron]

Its around 550kg actually

[red moon]

good god

[dawn falcon]

Unless I hear a good argument for that that isn’t “you should be able to raw damage a juvie to death as a Utah” and more so for the whole rosters balance, no can do

[dawn dew]

Then it has 550 health, compared to utahs 450. Makes sense when 100% carno is 1.8 tons

[dawn falcon]

Inb4 someone says weight = hp was a mistake

[red moon]

this keeps going from “I have more issues with utah besides the pounce” to then exclusively talking about the pounce and the shitty bite, which is, by design, a shitty bite

so all you’re left with is the pounce

[dawn falcon]

Simply a difference in skill

[red moon]

You find a Carno sitting and AFK , what you gonna do? Form a Pack? Use pounce?

[dawn dew]

Use pounce because that’s what it’s supposed to use

[frosty heron]

The Isle community is somethinh else wow

[dawn falcon]

If hypothetically pounce could work without breaking, pounce and bleed it out

[red moon]

lmao

i cannot handle this

[dawn falcon]

Exactly mister bunny hunter

[red moon]

the bleeder dinosaur has to play a bleeder play style

[frosty heron]

Guess I dont have skill like everyone is claiming , no skill because I decided to kill an AFK Carno

[dawn dew]

Worse, you apparently failed?

[frosty heron]

You shouldnt be doing that

[dawn falcon]

No, it’s because you state claims and fail to back them up, multiple times

[red moon]

How do you lose that

[dawn dew]

How did you fail to kill it again?

[red moon]

“its simple really, I bit it”

[dawn dew]

you shouldn’t be doing that

[frosty heron]

Why everyone is just thinking I died or something ?

[dawn dew]

You wouldn’t be here complaining if you won, would you?

[red moon]

Are you saying you killed the AFK carno

[frosty heron]

Nobody won, Carno ran away and I took no damage

[red moon]

.

I cannot

[dawn dew]

So i guess it wasn’t afk then

[ebon kraken]

So that means the player was right next to his computer and heard you attack

[red moon]

[frosty heron]

Also I didnt even posted shit on the feedback people here is just attacking because yeah "Joker time"

[dawn falcon]

Seems like a situation where you’d attempt to pounce it

[dawn dew]

Sounds like you bit a carno a few times, it came back to its computer, and ran away

[dawn falcon]

Keyword attempt

[red moon]

upon seeing the carno stand, you

did not pounce it

[dawn dew]

You probably did a lot of damage considering it didn’t just rip you apart

[ebon kraken]

If he was actually afk for a while you could have killed him.

Maybe he was healing in a bush and not afk

[dawn falcon]

Bite it, shit on everyone’s claims, make a mistake, want Utah to be buffed, all because you failed to use 1% of your brain cells and try to pounce it and track it down to bleed it out

[frosty heron]

It noticed a bit late , after it took like 12 bites , then he saked its head so he came to the mouse quickly thats for sure

[red moon]

so then thats when you pounce

[frosty heron]

You would attempt to pounce a sitting Carno ? You might die

[dawn falcon]

Bet you 5 bucks you could bleed out a carno faster than killling it with bites

[dawn falcon]

Doesn’t change the fact it could have turned and alt bite you, therefore killing you just as fast as if you were to pounce and dismount

[red moon]

if i was the utah i simply would have used the alt attack to claw it’s face off with expert precision like a surgeon

if i was the utah i simply wouldnt have failed the mission

[dawn dew]

Yeah 12 bites ain’t gonna do shit to a carno, nor should it

Just pounce the thing with a few buddies

“But it doesn’t work” then let them fix it, instead of buffing the bite lol

[frosty heron]

Again youre telling me I should be pouncing people that is not even paying attention to the game ?

[frosty heron]

I did that my guy

[dawn dew]

Yeah? That’s your damage dealing attack

[red moon]

thats why you should’ve pounced

[brisk quest]

yes? thats how utah is supposed to kill

[dawn dew]

And he’s clearly paying enough attention since he came back before you could put more than 12 bites in

[frosty heron]

Bleed*

[red moon]

As opposed to what? Pouncing when they’re moving?

[ebon kraken]

12 bites wouldn’t kill a carno tho. Pounce it and if he does come back you could bleed him out

[dawn falcon]

Seems like using the keyword attempt or try wasn’t enough

Gg

[dawn dew]

Bleed is how you hurt and kill things as utah, especially when that thing is over three times your size

[frosty heron]

12 headshot wont kill a Carno yeah , thats kinda sad

[red moon]

Why though?

It’s a bleeder dinosaur

Meaning it uses

[dawn dew]

And it’s tiny compared to carno

[red moon]

I know this sounds crazy

[dawn dew]

And you have a pounce

[red moon]

bleed

[dawn falcon]

Wait are you saying a 1.8 ton carnivore should die to 12 headshots from the thing it’s supposed to HUNT, THAT IS SHORTER AND LIGHTER THAN IT

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[brisk quest]

thats like if I found an afk deino as tenonto, tried killing it with claw attacks and then I complain when the deino comes back and runs into the water
its not how the animal works buddy

[ebon kraken]

Does anyone know how many headshots a carno can take from a Utah?

[dawn dew]

If you want carno to die in 12 headshots that also means utah kills other utahs in five shots lol

[frosty heron]

Its not the same situation, you know Teno tail slam works , pounce its a World of discoveries

[dawn dew]

So fix the pounce

[hollow canyon]

It should die to the 22nd attack

[dawn dew]

Don’t advocate a whole different buff

“Charge doesn’t work, buff carnos bite”

[frosty heron]

Here we go again with fix the pounce , yeah ok but in THAT moment was broken

[toxic crypt]

Is the goofy goober time here?

[red moon]

Bro

[dawn dew]

But it’s planned to be fixed, why do you want a different change

[brisk quest]

once again I tell you this:
pounce being broken does not mean utah needs to be buffed
lets wait until utah works properly AND THEN we can determine whether it needs a buff or not

[dawn dew]

By the time you get a bite force buff you already have the pounce fix

[red moon]

pounce has been stated to be broken and is planned to be fixed

what is the issue???

[hollow canyon]

Admittedly - there have been issues with the pounce ever since Evrima came out. I'm not sure when exactly it's going to get fixed.

[red moon]

fair

but it’s in a much worse state lately

[hollow canyon]

It's just an extremely difficult mechanic to get right

just by the virtue of how it works

[dawn falcon]

So that means buffing Utah’s pounce to 80n

[frosty heron]

People overreacts like im asking for extreme buffs for Utah or something

[brisk quest]

?

[red moon]

Who

[frosty heron]

☝️

[red moon]

But whats wrong with what he said

[brisk quest]

so you agree with it now?
nvm i misunderstood the emoji my bad

[hollow canyon]

I would probably buff the bite a bit I think to 65N and nerf the pounce actually

Pounce will very likely need a nerf anyways

[toxic crypt]

That isn't an overreaction, that's a very levelheaded way to approach balance

[hollow canyon]

If it ever gets fixed to the point where it works as intended

[red moon]

based aken at it again

[frosty heron]

What do you know about games balance to take that as the absolute right words?

[toxic crypt]

What?

[dawn falcon]

What does a know about game balance? Apparently to the point he can actually use more than 2 of his brain cells to approach said balance?

[frosty heron]

Again , I didnt asked to bring back Legacy Utah but people is acting like so

[brisk quest]

turok I don't think anyone here believes you want legacy utah

[red moon]

i can only roll my eyes at this point, i’m sorry everyone

i dont think many utah mains even want utah from legacy back

[toxic crypt]

I think the only statement I have seen so far is people saying that the pounce is not functional and that utah needs no bite buff

[frosty heron]

Thats some people statement

[red moon]

[dawn falcon]

More than what you’ve brought to the table that’s for sure

Mister bunny hunting afk Carno biter

[frosty heron]

Im not gonna be posting any arguments here I said it clearly

[frosty heron]

Specially when this kind of stuff joins the conversation

[dawn falcon]

You’re welcome

Next time don’t use childish insults and actually state a supporting statement to your claims if you make any of them.

Gday

[frosty heron]

Can you post my insults here please ?

[brisk quest]

if you're not gonna give a reason as to why utah needs a buff I personally dont understand why ask for a buff

[frosty heron]

Because ive been called idiot and lack of skill couple times

[red moon]

villain origin story

[dawn falcon]

Wait are you saying you don’t like to be called having a skill issue lmao

Anyways

[red moon]

I was the butt of a discord joke and now i am become destroyer of worlds

[frosty heron]

Yep , specially when that person could be way worse playing the game

[hollow canyon]

I wasn't following the conversation very closely but I really don't think Turok said anything offensive throughout it, at least not while I was skimreading it

[toxic crypt]

I mean, you're the one trying to play it off as if people didn't flat out tell you the stats

[red moon]

i wouldn’t say offensive he’s just be acting as if he’s a victim when really all that was said was “pounce is bad”
“pounce is bugged “
“ok but theres more problems with utah”
“which are?”
“bite and pounce”

thats the whole conversation

[frosty heron]

Sorry but I just had to drop anything about stats when I saw someone said Carno dies in 2 pounces

[hollow canyon]

Yea this conversation has most definitely been going in circles

[frosty heron]

Yeah maybe dies in 2 pounces if the Carno is not playing the game

[toxic crypt]

You had to drop anything about stats when you blatantly displayed your lack of knowledge on the topic

[dawn falcon]

To your statement:
Called someone a kid, which can be technically insulting to that person.
Decided to be a jackass the entire conversation and openly admitted to making fun of the other group of people.
Yeah, an insult, and then be another political party. Uh huh

[brisk quest]

they meant two pounces give carno enough blood loss for it to be fatal

[unborn iris]

Imagine getting dogpiled by a bunch of stego mains in islecord. 😵

[red moon]

stego mains?

[brisk quest]

excuse me I'm a para main thank you

[toxic crypt]

Imagine labeling anybody you disagree with a stego main

[dawn falcon]

Specifically a stego main interesting

[red moon]

we don’t take kindly to stego mains either, thank you very much

[dawn falcon]

It’s almost like I play Utah this entire time, that’s why I’m arguing otherwise eeeeeeew

[unborn iris]

That was the whole point.

[frosty heron]

Yeah , this is the reason I shouldnt even be replying to you

[red moon]

society treats you wrong turok, i agree

i’m on your side now

utah’s claw attack should be buffed

agree with me, turok

[frosty heron]

To a person Who called me Idiot first , I dont see a problem there sir

[frosty heron]

[toxic crypt]

It must be that everybody else is just wrong. It couldn't possibly be that you had a bad take, the only explanation is that every other person is wrong.

[red moon]

Don’t you agree that the alt attack is weak?

[frosty heron]

Of course I had a bad luck situation there, but that doesnt mean I should change my opinion about game balance

[frosty heron]

When I said that ?

[red moon]

So do you not think the attack is weak then?

[dawn falcon]

For a person who decided it was good to be a jackass over being called lacking in skill, sorry I don’t have sympathy for you

[frosty heron]

Bite is weak , Alt is fine

[red moon]

i agree, bite is weak, Alt is fine

[frosty heron]

I mean you aint gonna be using alt on combat so

Unless its a dryo

[red moon]

I use alt

i agree though turok

you and i are going places tbh

[frosty heron]

Fine , I dont want your sympathy

[unborn iris]

You mostly want to be using alt bite, actually.

[frosty heron]

Drop it now please

[red moon]

Shhh, i’m his friend now

Oh come on we just got cool with each other

[frosty heron]

[frosty heron]

Yes until you realize you lose all your momentum just to deal a bit more of damage

[unborn iris]

Not all your momentum.

[frosty heron]

Most of it , you wont be using it against Carnos or Stegos , works with Tenos tho

[red moon]

wait

the claw attack would not work against carnos or stegos, yet it would work against tenos?

[toxic crypt]

Shouldn't you be pouncing those

[brisk quest]

are you biting stegos and tenos as utah??

[dawn falcon]

👍

[red moon]

Pounce doesn’t exist

The Isle never introduced it

[dawn falcon]

Yes

The pounce was just the friends we made along the way, the whole time

[unborn iris]

Isn't bite bugged in live build? It only bleeds with headshots or something?

[frosty heron]

Here comes the group of silly guys to attack my gameplay again

[red moon]

Dude no, like

it’s not even to be mean

you’re literally just not playing correctly, that’s it

[toxic crypt]

Turok, it sounds like you're playing utah in the exact wrong way and complaining when that doesn't work

[frosty heron]

ArE YoU BiTtiNG StEgOS?

[red moon]

Stego gets fucking melted by the pounce

[brisk quest]

if you want to bite stegos and tenos thats fine go wild my guy but don't ask for buffs if you just refuse to play how the animal is supposed to be played

[dawn falcon]

^

[frosty heron]

Do you even saw me playing Utah?

[red moon]

Do you bite stegos and tenos, or do you pounce them?

[dawn falcon]

No but you described exactly what he’s been talking about

[toxic crypt]

I can't hear sounds with my eyes?

[red moon]

Please

I need to know

clarify if you’re biting stegos, or pouncing them

depending on your answer im going to CRY

[dawn falcon]

I just noticed he has a #buffutah in his username.
But that’s not important

[toxic crypt]

Well, I guess in a deeply philosophical sort of way that's what reading is. 🤔

[dawn falcon]

I’m already crying

[hollow canyon]

You can bite Stegos - when they're bucking you are kind of free to land bites onto them.

[red moon]

this revelation completely changes the context of this whole debacle

[frosty heron]

Should I respond?

[red moon]

What?

[toxic crypt]

Who do you need to ask?

[thin mantle]

@neat forge Carno is so broken easy to play now that it has fracture, if you have a pack of two carnos you're guaranteed to down a teno regardless of the herd size they have. Your speed and ability to charge from 2 different directions makes dodging impossible, and their speed completely removes any numbers advantage tenos have

[red moon]

Yes

It’s integral to know

[toxic crypt]

Turok needs permission from you in order to continue this conversation @red moon \

[red moon]

I grant permission

[frosty heron]

Alright , since update 3.5 I dont Hunt Stegos/Tenos , so no bites , neither pounce

[neat forge]

I played on the normal Version not U4 Testing but I can imagine how ez he is there

[red moon]

May I ask why you do not attempt to hunt them anymore?

[frosty heron]

Because each pounce attempt in this QA branch is like playing russian roulette

[thin mantle]

Oh god... teno in the QA branch got a damage nerf and carno deals fracture on charges, even if this is fixed in the future to gradually fracture over time it'll still be entirely unbalanced because tenos can't even out damage carnos in a facetank, which is stupid.

[red moon]

So then, if pounce were fixed in this next update, would you want Utah to be buffed still?

[neat forge]

If Carnos can Fracture they shouldn't deal much dmg imo

[frosty heron]

I would keep the bitteforce buff , not asking for much

[toxic crypt]

but why

[thin mantle]

I'd want utah to have a stam buff, particularly a stamina regen buff but nothing else

[neat forge]

Not even high just a rise up from 55 to 75

[red moon]

You know out of all the fucking complaints about utah this is the main thing besides pounce ive even thought about

[unborn iris]

Is the stamina regen bonus from diets reversed for all dinos in mech test or just utahs? 😅

[dawn falcon]

This literally isn’t significant enough of a boost to really be needed

[frosty heron]

Because even if you dont use bite to kill stuff , it should at least make your prey to worry if it takes a big amount of them , not tank them like nothing

[neat forge]

A bit saver dmg because as Utah in order to deal dmg you always instantly risk your life besides the dmg you risk your life for is not even high atm

[dawn falcon]

Nor is a boost at all needed

If you can bleed something out, why boost the raw damage aswell?

[red moon]

But doesn’t bite already do that theoretically

[dawn falcon]

Depending on the situation yes

[neat forge]

Idk then make it 85 or 90

[toxic crypt]

You're supposed to be pouncing shit as a utah, turok. Unless you're biting smalls like you should, in which case it 3 shots dryo

[red moon]

then w-why is

my

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-throw-away-brain-spongebob-gif-8612783

[dawn falcon]

Unless it’s 100 or so, it won’t be significant. And a boost to raw damage is unnecessary when you can bleed something out

[thin mantle]

Pounce is currently broken so there's no way of getting around that, that being said, if utahs did have their pounce it would only really be useable against slow immobile targets like stego due to the stamina drain. Buck is the main reason this is a problem since they can empty your stam in 3 seconds while pounce. Against a teno or carno pouncing just reduces your chances of survival even if you land it

[thin mantle]

I don't even know why utah would need a damage buff

[frosty heron]

Raw numbers, over 32 bites for a Carno on x1 , not considering healing , would you worry?

[red moon]

unequivocally based response

[neat forge]

Atm you can't with all the bugs and rubberbanding so we still can complain about it and ask for a buff

[dawn falcon]

If it can bleed you out with said bites, yes.

[red moon]

I’d worry about the bleed, not the raw damage.

[toxic crypt]

Carno shouldn't be worried from a bite of a utah, though. It should worry about the pounce.

[dawn falcon]

So fix the bugs and everything will be fine?

Why does that mean buff a certain dinosaur?

If deinos damage is bugged, does that mean buff it’s hp?

[frosty heron]

The bleed of the bites is almost non existant lol

[toxic crypt]

ALMOST LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO POUNCE

[dawn falcon]

^

Bite maintains the bleed so you don’t heal, pounce applies more and more bleed both at once and over time

[neat forge]

We won't know it until we can play it but on paper it would be ok if the U4 Wallowing stays the same

But until we will continue complaining

[frosty heron]

We re talking about bites or pounce here?

[red moon]

i’m beginning to feel my tears form upon my eyes

[thin mantle]

The main issue with pouncing is that it's only useful in massive groups, 5-8, so if you pounce a carno with numbers below those you basically set yourself up for failure with the stamina drain

[brisk quest]

if bite having low bleed is a problem isnt that more of a reason to buff the bleed rather than the damage?

[toxic crypt]

That's the point. utah is small, it should be hunting smalls when it doesn't have a pack

[frosty heron]

The bleed is not an issue because pounce deals it

[dawn falcon]

Ah, but if pounce is fixed, I could see the numbers of required pack members lowering a bit

[dawn falcon]

Yeah, which is why Utah’s bite doesn’t need a damage buff when you can just bleed the creature out.

Otherwise

[thin mantle]

The small dino playerbase isn't large enough to support this currently. Plus the ability for a single carno to wipe a large pack of utahs removes the incentive to form them as you basically make yourself a more noticeable target

[dawn falcon]

It leads to an issue of being able to bleed something out AND deal significant raw damage

[frosty heron]

Tell that to Carnos

[dawn falcon]

Needing rebalancing and issues fixed moment

[frosty heron]

Whose bite deals tons of bleed and damage is good af

[thin mantle]

Well I wasn't going off of pounce not working, I'm speaking from a hypothetical where pounce works perfectly fine, that message is in regards to stamina drain

[red moon]

I’m pretty sure most people are in agreement carno is a piece of shit asshole right now.

carno is not a valid response

[dawn falcon]

Ah

[red moon]

because we all know

[toxic crypt]

then don't play utah if you don't have any prey to hunt

[dawn falcon]

Like stamina drain from buck or the default drain?

[thin mantle]

Most people will agree carno is stupid powerful

[thin mantle]

Terrible idea, I don't even need to explain why. Fix utah instead of abandoning it for no reason

[thin mantle]

Default drain is perfectly fine, I'm talking about buck drain

[toxic crypt]

Right. Fix its pounce and then go off to nerf carno and shit.

[dawn falcon]

I mean technically there’s younger Carnos and pretty much younger dinosaurs you can munch on

Not just newer smalls

[thin mantle]

Granted as soon as that carno hits 20% it's faster than you

[dawn falcon]

Bleed and persistence hunting go brrr

[thin mantle]

A 60% carno is basically utah repellant xD

[thin mantle]

If you land a hit than sure, plus it's not as if they're particularly common

Juvis and hatches spend almost their entire duration hiding

[dawn falcon]

Not much I can say about that

[frosty heron]

I once pounced one of those and my Utah got stuck in the pounce animation mid air while the Carno was running away

Nice experience

[dawn falcon]

Pounce bug but I bet you were still applying bleed

[frosty heron]

TuRoK UsE PoUnCe YoU IdiOt

[thin mantle]

I guess I just think having an adult dino rely on the juvis of other species to survive is a bad way to design a creature with a mechanic designed specifically to combat larger targets

[dawn falcon]

So hey you get a new view

[frosty heron]

Fun thing I wasnt

[dawn falcon]

How would you know that though

Did you sniff

[frosty heron]

Yep

No blood trails

[dawn falcon]

Okay then that’s.. yet another pounce issue wtf

Pounce is bipolar

[frosty heron]

Guess I have no skill

[thin mantle]

Have you run into the issue where you literally clip to the air when pouncing? You can't even dismount it's essentially setting you up for execution. Happens during roughly 40% of my pounces

[dawn falcon]

I’ve had the issue where I’ll latch on and auto dismount but I won’t actually “jump” off its side

I kinda lag off

Happens with stego

Which is why pounce needs to be fixed and not buff Utah 😁

[frosty heron]

I had the issue where you pounce an AI Teno and the Utah just falls like it hit a tree

[thin mantle]

Oh interesting, I have had a similar thing happen but instead of simply dismounting me it also drained, no hyperbole, all of my stamina.

[frosty heron]

I thought I was dead but the Teno didnt care

[thin mantle]

Then there's the issue of ai teno's being able to instantly rotate :l

[frosty heron]

And the whole conversation before was like "You have to use pounce"

[thin mantle]

Yeah don't buff utah, just give it better stamina regen and everything will be fine for it (assuming pounce works)

[dawn falcon]

Better stamina regen does sound quite nice

But I’m content with the current stamina regen. I just need to be able to pounce something and have a pack mate handle it from there, instead of noclipping through or being thrown off

[thin mantle]

Stamina only really becomes an issue with carnos, and utahs need to have the ability to fight carnos off since they would occupy the same territory. Plus there isn't really any drawback to increasing utahs stamina regen, it doesn't do much other than making you spend less time sitting

[dawn falcon]

Its kinda like if I pounce you and dismount, a pack mate should try to distract the prey while I enter a bush or some shit and crouch or sit. So if I’m low on stamina, a packmember is basically there to stop the prey from trying to kill me.

And if it’s nice and coordinated, I should be fine

[red moon]

https://tenor.com/view/fnaf-skill-issue-idiotwatch-funny-gif-22799962

[fresh laurel]

What if utah had 75n bite

[frosty heron]

Youre asking for Utah buff? You opened the Pandora Box

[fresh laurel]

Ahhh

Here we go again

But

75?

Would it be bad or better

[frosty heron]

Carefull people might tell you that you have Skill issues

[fresh laurel]

Thing is

Lagg

[red moon]

feel like you completely missed everyone’s points and took it at face value

[fresh laurel]

I legit cant play lel

[red moon]

also yeah, performance is evrima is

whew

it sucks for shit like utah

[frosty heron]

Nah theres no lag , only skill problems

[red moon]

i love pouncing and then teleporting into a stego’s tail

[fresh laurel]

Wdym

[red moon]

I was replying to him, you’re fine

[fresh laurel]

Ngl when i played update 3 lag was fine in terms of fps

But 3.5 killed my fps

[red moon]

i feel like performance shit itself with 3.5 especially

the test doesnt seem to be too much better rn

tho they’re apparently working on fixing that

[fresh laurel]

I think it should be first priority

Since less lag and more fps means more players

[red moon]

it should be

[fresh laurel]

Anyways

[red moon]

i agree

[fresh laurel]

75 good or bad

[red moon]

what is it’s current bite force?

[fresh laurel]

50

[frosty heron]

Good for me , bad for the community

55 actually

[fresh laurel]

Still

Smol

[red moon]

ehh, take it or leave it tbh

dont think it changes much for utah

[fresh laurel]

It will help

Since if i say 100

Ppl will go ape

[red moon]

anything will help technically

the pounce is the main problem rn since it fundamentally does not work

at least not consistently

[fresh laurel]

I think utah relies too much on pounce tbh

[red moon]

thats an argument i can get behind

[fresh laurel]

Like old combat with utah was fine

I mean not legacy but

[dawn falcon]

I’m pretty sure Utah is supposed to rely on pounce though

Pounce is how it bleeds it’s prey

[fresh laurel]

But what if

[dawn falcon]

I don’t want it to return to raw damage Utah

[fresh laurel]

You cant spare stam for pounce

And wanna help

[dawn falcon]

So use the bite to maintain the bleed

It doesn’t have to be raw damage

[frosty heron]

Utah relies on pounce thats a thing devs wanted since 3.5 , not only Utah but all dinos

[red moon]

im cool with the whole bleed build utah, but i do wish it wasn’t honed in so much so on it’s pounce, but to be fair bite is mostly just there to maintain bleed and not so much for damaging big dinosaurs

[fresh laurel]

I dont think 75 will break theflow of bleed battles

Also

Come on

[dawn falcon]

75 wouldn’t be significant enough

[fresh laurel]

You almost starve in bleed fights

[red moon]

Since when?

[fresh laurel]

I did

Apparently

[dawn falcon]

The point of bleed fights is to bleed out the prey so you can eat them.

[fresh laurel]

Ik

[red moon]

I haven’t had that issue personally but I can imagine that happening with a smaller amount of utahs

[dawn falcon]

Idk how you starved though

[fresh laurel]

Me neither

[dawn falcon]

That means you just weren’t fed enough in preparation for the fight

[fresh laurel]

Maybe a bad day for my utah lel

[dawn falcon]

Wish ai spawns were fixed though

[fresh laurel]

I was missing 25%

Wasnt utah having 75n bite at some point

[dawn falcon]

But at most you should buff it’s stamina regen so you don’t have to SIT for as long

[fresh laurel]

True

[red moon]

I had 12 utahs gang up on my carno and after i killed 10 of then i then collapsed from the sheer amount of bleed but

i’d like faster stam regen for utah

[dawn falcon]

Like if you can pounce a creature and regen your stam fast enough to go and maintain the bleed, that’s fine.

[red moon]

based

[fresh laurel]

Faster stam regen for utah if its keeping its pounce reliant self if not then some bite buff could help

Also isnt utah entering dilo terf

[frosty heron]

Cant believe I asked the same thing as this guy but instead of a polite conversation I got riddled with insults lol

[fresh laurel]

Wdym

[dawn falcon]

You made claims and failed to explain them

[red moon]

The way you framed it was entirely different. We asked you “what was wrong with Utah”

[dawn falcon]

And also used insults first and decided to be an ass

[red moon]

you said pounce

[frosty heron]

Just Isle community stuff , dont worry

[red moon]

then we ALL agreed pounce was broken

[dawn falcon]

That’s why people disagreed with you that harshly

[dawn falcon]

^

[frosty heron]

And the stuff between that was complete chaos

[red moon]

Mostly because it was people who saw you said to buff it’s bite and that the pounce was useless

if the pounce is fixed, different story

[fresh laurel]

This used to be about me asking if 75n could do utah good now look...

[red moon]

lmao

[fresh laurel]

Lets refrain from a new fight

[red moon]

Yeah, it’s not gonna go anywhere tbh. But to add onto what you were saying

[dawn falcon]

Think of it this way for faster stam regen:
If you pounce your prey, and go regen stamina, the prey in that time is bleeding and racking up its blood loss. With faster stamina regen, you can immediately get back up and try to prevent them from healing their bleed either by biting them or pouncing them again. This would be very useful in case your pack members were being attacked by say, a carno, and requires support

[red moon]

i’d actually prefer the same damage, but more bleed

[fresh laurel]

Like 50n with more bleed?

[frosty heron]

Well , nothing confirms it will be completely fixed in the next patch, it may stay broken for a bit

[red moon]

Yeah i’d be fine with that since if I ever use a bite attack for damage it’s on smalls or i’m using the claws

[fresh laurel]

I always thought utah could get a claw swipe for a bleeding attack

But that works

And less work so it has higher chance to be added lel

[red moon]

the claws do more damage and more bleed, right? or no

true

[fresh laurel]

Claw would do

More bleed

And less damage

[red moon]

hopefully not, that’d be a slap in the face to utah players

[fresh laurel]

You know...

[dawn falcon]

Now that I think about it

[fresh laurel]

If utah doesnt get fixed

We should all main its tree cousin

Herrera

[red moon]

absolutely the right decision

the better dinosaur

[fresh laurel]

Ikr

Like it can kill rex better than utah

By jumping it!

[dawn falcon]

Raw damage focused bites (which still deal a good amount of bleed), with Bleed damage focused claw swipes (more bleed than raw damage), with pounce being the ultimate bleed weapon does sound quite cool

[fresh laurel]

Yes

Also

[dawn falcon]

Cause if you think about it

[fresh laurel]

Better combat fun

[dawn falcon]

Pounce is basically using claw swipes and bites at the same time

[fresh laurel]

Also 3 moves for a carnie and utah gets to be the first carnie with 3 moves :0

[red moon]

this is the one

[dawn falcon]

Technically 4

With alt bite

[fresh laurel]

Alt bite for utah

Is kinda pointless

[dawn falcon]

Alt bite deals more raw damage though

Every alt attack does

[fresh laurel]

I dont see it useful in my opinion beside deino

[dawn falcon]

It’s really good for Utah vs. Utah fights as well as similar sized creature fights

[fresh laurel]

Meh

At that point

[dawn falcon]

It’s really nice for baiting

[fresh laurel]

Its just facetank

[dawn falcon]

I mean if you face tank, one of y’all’s gonna pounce lol

Instantly ending the fight

[fresh laurel]

I prefer hit and run but i have yet to improve my skills

Also

WHY

[dawn falcon]

So Utah’s will be running around and biting mainly

[fresh laurel]

THE

HECK

CANT

[dawn falcon]

You buck off

A Utah

Idk

[fresh laurel]

UTAH

BUCK A UTAH OFF

[dawn falcon]

We’ll pin bucks are planned

[fresh laurel]

Thats like if someone jumped you and you couldnt do jack

Wait

Pin bucks

Good

[dawn falcon]

Though if you’re a dryo I doubt you’ll be able to buck off a Utah so

[fresh laurel]

Post this

Its good

Also dont hurt me but

Update 3 had best balancing ingame beside deino alt bite

Dryos could fight utahs back and utah could survive fine and carno is meh

[dawn falcon]

Mk I posted it in general feedback

[sinful cove]

@modern atlas deino is basically waterlocked, once he fails a lunge he has given himself away and wont catch anybody unless they willfully put themselves in range. Utah can pursue, that is why it makes sense to get punishment for missing

[modern atlas]

but shouldnt the hardest hitting carnivore get punished the same if not worse than the lowest hitting carnivore

[sinful cove]

He is automatically punished because he cant pursue

Deino cant hunt and pick prey the same way utah can

Pounce is working kinda weird rn but when its fixed the punishment has no reason to be removed

[modern atlas]

yeah but when he can literally alt bite right after and one shot a full grown utah where is the punishment?

[sinful cove]

If the utah doesnt haul ass out of there it sort of deserves it

[modern atlas]

i get that but when you miss a lunge you miss it you shouldnt get a second chance to bite right efter

[sinful cove]

If deino is basically biting during the lunge animation then sure thats a problem but if the failed lunge ends and the deino is biting right after it doesnt sound like an issue

[modern atlas]

with the way the hit box is right now if they miss the lunge and immediately alt bite before you can get enough distance for it not to hit in my opinion thats kinda vroken

broken*

cant*

[undone otter]

hi guys in update 4 (quality-assurance), carno are useless, can you please put some teeth back to the carno. i was at 75 % of growth and i tried to kill a utah (80-90% growth) but it was impossible. 10 bite later and the utah go away. Another fight between a tenontosaurus and me (carno), 85 % growth vs tenontosaurus (50-60 % growth), 7 bite and he killed me. paleontologists must have a good time seeing a carno in a video game typing like a 5 year old girl. 😂
edit 1 : Now i am a baby stego and i bleed an adult carno O.O. i received 1 bite and i lost only 15% of my life 🤨 The adult carno is escaped

https://tenor.com/view/barney-dinosaurs-fight-punch-gif-5375379

[sinful cove]

[alpine plover]

💀

[ocean wagon]

This has to be a joke, right?

[dreamy pike]

most likely but I wouldn't be suprised if it wasn't

[frail snow]

@terse kayak Legacy isn't getting updated/re-balanced, the devs stopped developing legacy

[undone otter]

Had never seen such a pathetic answer, develop or don't say anything next time ... it's easy to flame when you have no brain

[alpine plover]

...

Carno is op in the QA branch

[wild cove]

Carno needs a nerf lol

Big time

[thin mantle]

Carno has literally never received a nerf outside of its damage nerf in U3.75 which I can barely consider a nerf since Utah (it’s only potential contender) got its stats cut in half. It’s quite literally always been incredibly good if not the best terrestrial Dino in the game, but right now everything but stegos are essentially free food. Tenos absolutely need to be stronger than carnos in order to have a reason to exist

[tall trail]

@cedar shore yes you are very correct

[sinful cove]

Carno now is like deino was earlier where the only real threats it has is its own species lmao

Tenonto and utah are lame af now

[ocean wagon]

I wonder if they’ll listen to us for update 4 or will carno get let loose again for another update

Tbh with the exception of Utah’s bleed doing jack shit, carno is the only dinosaur that really needs a balance rehaul

I wouldn’t mind carnos bite force dmg right now if its bite speed wasn’t nearly as spammable.

You can’t have high damage and high bite speed.

I do think lowering its bite speed quite a bit would make it less of a brawler tbh

Being able to turn quickly and spam bites makes it waaay too easy for carno to hold its ground against Utah packs. Carno currently has everything in its kit to be a brawler, when it’s supposed to be an ambush predator that’s main style of killing is charging and then finishing their prey off with bites while they’re are still down

Also, carnos bucking animation should be a bit more…..aggressive. It’s current animations look like it has no energy trying to shake Utah’s off. Let alone drain their entire stam bar

A carno shaking like that is not going to throw off an animal that’s grappled onto its skin

Just take tenos bucking animation for example. Teno looks like it wants that Utah off of it ASAP

[thin mantle]

TLDR: Everything but Carno is useless and the only playables stronger than Carno are slow and far stronger than anything below them, essentially giving them nothing to do but kill eachother thus rendering Carno entirely unchallenged by anything.

[sinful cove]

Nah, tenonto got shafted it needs rebalancing as well

Tenonto cant punish the stupidest carnos now because its tail slam does jack shit

Carno can just run in to it, tank all the stun slams and walk it off

[thin mantle]

I have no clue why it takes more than 5 headslams to kill a Carno. That’s just so…. just why

[sinful cove]

Guess they listened to all the carno mains whinging about getting punished for their mistakes last patch

Another herbi rendered useless, the cycle continues

[thin mantle]

All of mid and low tier have no purpose being in the game now, they’re simply glorified cannon fodder. And for some reason this dynamic includes 2 apex tiers…… why tf does this game already have apex tiers

[sinful cove]

Guess the devs just couldn’t contain their urge to add them lol

And some carno enthusiast slipped their agenda into this patch

[thin mantle]

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. Deino should have been bary or beipi, stego should’ve been kentro. Why tf did you add 2 dinos with little to no interactions with other playable besides killing eachother and combatively decimating 6 out of the 8 playable options

[sinful cove]

They couldnt add stego without making it pathetic af and/or broken and deino has no predators but itself because it has a safe space lmao

Some things are just too stupid to be stupid

They couldnt have not seen the flaws in these decisions and the decisions for this current patch balance

I just refuse to believe theyre that blind

[alpine plover]

tenonto got the “defenseless prey animal” treatment and look at it now. people were mad that a herbivore could actually defend itself for once

[sinful cove]

As always

Its sad that the devs listen to it each and every time

[wheat ridge]

some carni players want herbis to be just player controlled AI because they think its "prey" and prey should not be able to defend itself or even kill a carni in their weight class, look at legacy how man herbis were viable? 3? out of how many?

[ocean wagon]

I’m still trying to figure out which dev is pushing the carno agenda into these balance patches

[minor fjord]

only that tenonto still sucks against a carno in its current state which is just sad to see

[sinful cove]

The devs appealing to all the noisy theropod fans who just wanna play their little JP fantasy of steamrolling every herbi and broadcast spamming after as if they accomplished anything in killing a slower, heavily nerfed and outnumbered opponent

[vagrant mural]

Lmao update 3 teno

And update 3 Dryo

[sinful cove]

Dryo was whatever, it was busted earlier but nobody touched it for some reason

[vagrant mural]

I used Dryo

[sinful cove]

Teno was never unbeatable

[vagrant mural]

King of bullshit

[sinful cove]

I attacked stegos with dryo a lot before the nerf

Stegos couldnt do shit about it 1v1

[vagrant mural]

Teno was never unbeatable, but at one point it was really fucking annoying and everywhere

Yknow when it was kind of good at everything

[sinful cove]

Honestly better than carnos, the fastest and most overtuned animal in the current game being everywhere

[vagrant mural]

Probably

But two wrongs don’t make a right

[sinful cove]

They made carno the fastest bastard while also being a brawler with good damage, fracture and bleed and decent agility

Who made the decisions this round

Were they high

[vagrant mural]

It was me, I thought it would be funny

[alpine plover]

Ptera is secretly a dev, no way

[vagrant mural]

He controls everyone’s every move

[wild cove]

Oh yeah, some of the arguments I've been seeing are ridiculous and brain-dead.

"Its an herbivore, which makes it a prey animal. Advantages should ALWAYS be in the carnivores favor because the carni has to eat to survive. Herbi's advantage is it gets to eat grass."

Cool. Show me a 1v1 with a wolf vs a moose or a buffalo and let's see who wins

[thin mantle]

As a theropod lover and someone who primarily plays them, it’s no fun at all to get free kills. If anything it’s way more fun taking down a target that’s stronger than you. There is no catharsis in being handed everything you want to accomplish for free

[alpine plover]

literally carno right now

[frosty heron]

So here we go again with herbie gameplay whining , did I saw someone complaining about diet system discouraging the existence of herds?

Indeed Herds was a pretty broken thing , one of many of past updates

Im not saying Teno is on a good position right now just in case someone jumps on me, but I cant defend the herds situation that just shouldnt happen

[thin mantle]

Good thing that in the case of carnos, herd numbers are irrelevant to your chances of success

And by good thing I mean “wtf are you doing devs, carnivorous Galli with the damage stats of an allo and the BB of a rex is such bullshit”

[sinful cove]

herds are broken while packs are not?
sound logic lmao

[frosty heron]

Explain why packs of the same species are broken

[ocean wagon]

Why would herds of the same species be broken…

[frosty heron]

Not megapacks

[sinful cove]

the only time herds are broken is when a bunch of brawlers and heavy hitters coagulate and even then herbivores are all slower than their predators, you can just walk away

a herd of 5 mixed tenos and stegos is less broken than a current carno pack

[frosty heron]

Do you think 3 Carnos in update 3.5 could do something agaisnt 8 Tenos ?

[ocean wagon]

My guy, carno is rarely supposed to be hunting teno to begin with

[sinful cove]

if they have an iq above room temperature sure, they tank teno tail hits like slaps from a preschooler now