#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 287 of 1

mighty knot
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idea to reflect mean fighting cera:

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getting stunned or knocked down

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it gets up faster, and it automatically faces the direction it was hit from

golden coral
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But I imagine it'd get knocked down vs a tenonto

primal dove
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I think if it has a lot of health and be very strong and bulky it should get stunned for 2s. A charge shouldn´t really kill a cera but at least deal some great damage to it. So that if the carno still gets too cocky bc it got a charge on it and goes for a brawl the cera should grab the carno and just tear it apart.

mighty knot
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instead of just facing the same way

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like a carno rams it, and it stumbles into facing where the carno was

golden coral
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Teno knocks each other down, right?

mighty knot
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in around a second or less

primal dove
mighty knot
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yah

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teno knocks carno on to it's belly too

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carno can knock teno down

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I think teno headshot could knock a cera down

golden coral
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Not like the charge is difficult to evade from what I know at least.. :p

mighty knot
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it's not too bad

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as a teno it's just laughable

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if cera keeps it's turn speed from legacy (it should) then yeah dodging a carno charge won't be too problematic

primal dove
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i mean a cera should definitely fear a charge but not dircetly die. I just want to see carno as an amb. predator which if it gets too greedy can also be heavily punished. So it would be a 50/50 but the skill of the players is very important.

mighty knot
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I think if the carno challenges it to a bite battle it needs to loose

golden coral
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Well, it could take a charge and not die from that, but if it keeps fighting then it would die, just be able to pay the carno back a lot more than a teno could possibly

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So it's a prey item, just a very painful one to go for

mighty knot
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cerato is the biggest low tier on the planned roster right

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correct me if I'm wrong

neat forge
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Then say why it shouldn't and not just no because that's just worthless feedback

primal dove
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im still saying it should be a 50/50 but I first have to see cerato ingame to see how the matchup goes

mighty knot
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on that note I wanted to run this past some people actually

cedar shore
mighty knot
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dilo and utah 1v1

primal dove
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yea

mighty knot
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how do we balance that matchup

golden coral
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Utah runs the hell away most likely :p

mighty knot
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hopefully :(

primal dove
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again we first have to see how dilo goes

cedar shore
primal dove
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^

golden coral
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At the very least, at night you do not fuck with a dilo

mighty knot
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dilo isn't that far off

golden coral
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At day, you might take one down in a pair, I imagine it'd be like pachy or so

neat forge
golden coral
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Doable, but very dangerous cause bigger and more powerful

mighty knot
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I just hope the devs recognize that dilo is big

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it should have more health than utah really

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but I'm still debating if it should win up close and how

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utah is realistically armed much better

primal dove
mighty knot
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like utah pounce would mess up a dilo

primal dove
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yes

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but if it misses it is fucked

mighty knot
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the size difference isn't quite big enough for it to shrug off a utah

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the other thing is giving dilo a weak bite

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I guess it might make sense balance wise for it not to do much damage

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but dilo IRL wasn't like some sorta weak biter

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that's entirely made up by TI

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depends how potent it's bite's other effects are tbh

cedar shore
primal dove
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it should also pin imo ,same should go for pachy really ,if a pachy can oneshot (u are 10% hp after the first hit and stunned so it´s an oneshot basically) an utah it should also be able to get oneshot by an utah. I mean sure it has more weight but weight isnt everything really if a pachy weighs 850 and an utah 450 the force from it´s speed should knock down and basically pin it. On the other hand an utah should be dead if it misses the pounce on both of these matchups.

primal dove
mighty knot
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yeah idk about pachy rn

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it seems really damn powerful

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like I know it got done dirty in legacy

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(still wins 1v1 with giga tho)

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but yeah it seems like it's just gonna dig a grave for utahs now

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they get one shot and disabled from a single hit

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and can't even pounce it despite being near equals in size

primal dove
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should be a 50/50 same goes for dilo the skill is just very important more in 1v1s for diet food and even more in pack fights

golden coral
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I think it's more so that utahs are good at larger game hunting, and as such, they don't get to be very good at hunting critters around their own size

primal dove
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^

mighty knot
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yeah that's fair

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hopefully it's not too oppressive

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now that I think of it

primal dove
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yes but it should definitely also defend itself at least

mighty knot
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pachy is prolly gonna be faster than cera

golden coral
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So most things around utahs size will most likely shit on it, whereas the larger things, are far more vunerable. A solo utah would most likely hunt the less dangerous of the same size, dryo, herrera, other not very vicious animals about that size

mighty knot
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which means it can just fly over to a cerato, snap both it's legs into 6 different pieces with one attack and put it to 60% health

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and then let the 4 tenos it was grouped with do the rest

golden coral
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So you'd still be survivable, just less capable in your own "tier" vs larger ones

primal dove
mighty knot
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5 or so utahs should be a good match for an allo

cedar shore
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cera will prob be at speeds of around 35-39 km/h

mighty knot
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then again allo is fking scary

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should be*

unborn iris
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What speed was pachy?

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is

mighty knot
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would be kinda sad if allo got done dirty in evrima

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it should be one of the more powerful midtiers

primal dove
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same for pachy maybe

mighty knot
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pachy would be a worse fight for dilo than utah

primal dove
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or just make it an absolute utah counter

golden coral
# primal dove and the midtiers are a 50/50 then? In a pack obviously.

Maybe? It's more so I think that utahs are great vs large and slow animals (slow in as slower than the utah and so on), especially those with big open flanks to pounce on. The smaller, faster/more agile and more feisty the target is, the worse it is for a utah to go for. So a solo utah does not want to tangle with its own size except those that would be running (dryo, galli/similar)

mighty knot
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it only needs to hit one hit

golden coral
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This is why teno is such a terrible prey for utahs really

cedar shore
golden coral
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It's just about the size of a pack hunt, but it's also a very well designed animal for fighting

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Allo needs to get kicked :p Stupid generalist in legacy xD

mighty knot
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'on a good day' a dilo in the night should have a chance against a pair of utahs

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maybe not in the open

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but in a jungle

primal dove
golden coral
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A dilo at night is probably a terror for everything really

mighty knot
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yeah

primal dove
mighty knot
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dilos should be like legacy just tone the bleed down a little little bit lmao

cedar shore
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as it should be

mighty knot
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legacy dilos are your worst nightmare a lot of the time as a lot of things

golden coral
mighty knot
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in a large amount of situations

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but literally killing a rex in under 10 bites

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that's a little much

golden coral
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Well, new dilo has venom, so hopefully no bleed :p

mighty knot
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you want dilo to have no bleed?

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I think dilo should lean more towards bleed and away from venom

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let troodon handle the massive venom injections

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dilo can have less potent venom, but deal some scary bleed too

primal dove
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low to mid-low bleed decent to high venom. Basically screw up ur preys senses and make it as helpless as a newborn chick (especially at night TI_Smug).

slim dragon
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Dilo venom is hallucinogenic, it works nothing like bleed or troodon's venom
Giving it bleed on top of it just renders the venom useless since you have a easier to use mechanic at hand

golden coral
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Well we know dilo gets venom

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So yeah, not a bleeder dilo then

mighty knot
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what was troodon's venom gonna do then

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same thing?

golden coral
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Would it still do bleed, well yes, teeth

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Troodons I think drains stamina maybe?

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Or something like that

mighty knot
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I thought it was the other way around

golden coral
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Nope

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Dilo has the funky venom that makes you trip :p

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Troodon does something else

mighty knot
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neat

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I think they need to get dilo trip venom right then

golden coral
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I imagine troodons can do the whole stamina drain, they're a horde animal. You just throw enough troodon at it until it can no longer fight back and then kill it I guess :p

mighty knot
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I like that ^^

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a dampening of all senses should be the main use of dilo venom

golden coral
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Dilos should be far more of a solitary or well, small group hunter

mighty knot
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no sense should be "disabled"

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but instead should give false information

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with only a few hints it's false

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to truly confuse players

golden coral
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It makes more sense too, dilo as we mentioned earlier, does carry some power

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So they can get away with a more indirect venom + then actually fight the prey

mighty knot
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yeah

golden coral
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Troodon on other hand dies if you look at it so :p

mighty knot
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make larger prey helpless enough that you can match it while being smaller

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scent should be a jumbled mess

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trails of footprints appear that aren't real

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maybe you smell a river that isn't there

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or a dead body right outside of your range

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but maybe keep some real scent sometimes too

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not all the time

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but sometimes that might actually be the dilo's footprints

primal dove
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ok what should troodons threshold for prey be now (my opinion stuff as big as a teno, but that is like a dark souls endboss)

mighty knot
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teno is specifically balanced to fend off groups of things smaller than itself

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so yeah that's the toughest a group of troodons is gonna get

golden coral
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It depends on group size of troodon and the venom and all that. I'd say a grown tenonto is on the upper end, if you got a full group and you're all willing to throw yourselves at it. Especially so since I do see troodon as a critter where death is just part of it, at least more so than most. You grow fast, you die fast. It's not a pack hunter where every pack member is important like utah, it's a horde animal where it's very much a "for the swarm" mentality. Everyone just charges and at some point the prey goes down. If everyone but one troodon is dead, it's still a victory for them, more or less.

neat forge
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Utah Bleed should increase extremely of you try to run and would need a full wallow to heal it to give Utahs who aren't in a VC a chance to kill a single Stego or aggressive Teno

golden coral
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Far as I know bleed do more "damage" if you trot or run vs walk or stand, and only resting + wallowing will stop bleeding.

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So that's already a thing. And I can see that being useful vs a teno at least.

neat forge
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Yeah I know that its there but I mean it's increases drastically so much that you can see it and think twice if you should really run or go defensive now

golden coral
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Keep in mind teno does decent bleed too I think, so if it gets much worse, it'll hit the utahs or carnos as well.

neat forge
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That's why I said utahs bleed because he's the only Dino atm who's relying on bleed dmg

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I dont want to say that if you move you lose like instantly 15%, like for example for teno if you run so much that the stam goes down for 1 step the same amount goes on blood
(Just an example)

unborn iris
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He's telling you that's literally how it works already.

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Utah bleed is getting tweaked some. We will see how it goes.

neat forge
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But it's not feeling good, bleeding out is still weak

golden coral
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Not sure what you want then? I'm just saying, if you increase the rate of blood loss when running, that'll hit utah and carno as well, since they can take bleed damage from teno.

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And I think bleeding out is fine, it's an attrition tool, so it's a long hunt. Having something bleed out over 5-10 min is a bit too quick most likely. Better to allow for longer hunts and all than just ramp up bleed again.

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Might as well get used to longer hunts in general, it's a good thing, more room for things to happen and tides to shift in such cases. Look at stego vs stego, pretty damn boring cause of the quick jab, you get that angle in, the other stego dies in a few seconds, not much room for counterplay or anything there.

hollow canyon
sinful cove
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arent humans already planned to be locked in 1st person

tacit oriole
tacit oriole
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Blood loss was the only way I was going to die - I was 80% HP and like 15% blood, which as a Teno sucks real hard

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The only reason I survived was because of the broken little spots that you can hide in

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Having said that I'm a pretty crap teno and 2 of them were absolute top-tier Utah, so the balance is still way off

alpine plover
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@neat forge I don't see why you wouldn't be punished for missing

sinful cove
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If you miss a huge ass target with pounce that is already very forgiving due to socketing, then you deserve the current punishment

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The pounce target deserves the window to eliminate a shitty utah player that cant hit the side of a barn with a pretty much auto aim ability since it will teleport the raptor to the side even if it pounces the head or tail

alpine plover
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^

viral jungle
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opinion on when you spawn as troodon, you either spawn as a singular one and over time you gain more like a small little pack of 2-5? or you spawn with a little pack that grow in size not number? cause realistically itll be hard to find like 25 troodons to team with this way 6 troodon players would have a little swarm of like 20-30 troodons?

vagrant mural
slim dragon
wraith galleon
halcyon harness
viral jungle
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good luck finding 25 troodon players in a 100 pop server

vagrant mural
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Ah yes

halcyon harness
vagrant mural
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Because I absolutely NEED 25 troodons fo do absolutely anything

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That auto spawn

viral jungle
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well its going to be a playable right?

vagrant mural
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Yes

viral jungle
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the size of a hypsi how will it kill anything let alone find 24 others to help you do anything

vagrant mural
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It’s double the size of hypsi, and it’s designed to have venom in numbers to help it punch up

viral jungle
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yeah in numbers but nobody gonna play it in the long run maybe a few lol

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plus server limits

vagrant mural
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Ok

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So by your logic, because not an entire quarter of the server is playing Utah, and it’s relatively small and requires packs to hunt more effectively, should it auto spawn 1-2 other utahs?

viral jungle
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a utah is a different type of hunter then a troodon

sinful cove
viral jungle
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i highly doubt the venom from a troodon is gonna kill a stego

vagrant mural
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They’re both attritional pack hunters that rely on status effects to punch up and kill larger prey

sinful cove
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why does troodon need to kill 5hr animals to be viable

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its fuckin tiny

viral jungle
vagrant mural
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Like honestly maybe killing mids in super high numbers is fine

sinful cove
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like troodon will be able to kill animals in the 1-2 ton range as a pack most likely

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somewhat regularly

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it wont need 500 members to do it

viral jungle
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i doubt that

vagrant mural
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So because troodon is small, the only thing it can hunt is hypsi, got it, and because it’s designed to punch up in numbers, it can reliably kill larger animals with a semi-coordinated team

viral jungle
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damage is weight based as well as speed is somewhat based on size

sinful cove
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damage isnt weight based

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hp is weight based

viral jungle
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as you gain weigh you get hp and damage

sinful cove
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and we dont know the exact potency of troo's venom or how diet will affect it

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weight doesnt affect attack damage

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itll probably only affect grapple capacity and trample

vagrant mural
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Wait how would diets affect venom-

viral jungle
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they wont venom wont even be effective

sinful cove
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the devs said they wanted diet to affect hypsi acid so i can see it affecting venom too. some toxic animals irl have diets that affect their toxins

sinful cove
viral jungle
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you have 2 issues

halcyon harness
sinful cove
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you confidently state "venom will be bad" like it is a fact, so where did you get this info?

viral jungle
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either less the 5 troodon can kill a teno or youre gonna need 10+ either way both are issues seeing as how you arent gonna gather 10% of the server pop in 1 spot as troodon

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or then troodon will be too op for its size

sinful cove
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if you can get 20 people playing the goblin shitraptor then you can get 10 troodon players

vagrant mural
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^

viral jungle
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theres 4 playable carnivores

halcyon harness
viral jungle
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by the time troodon comes out there will be more and itll be even more diverse

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and spread more thin

vagrant mural
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Troodon is like the 5th carni planned

viral jungle
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roadmap changes all the time

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cant go off of something thats 6months away

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sinces humans are also supposed to be out in less then 3 months

sinful cove
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then find friends wholl play it with you, something with as much utility as troodon will be viable alone, find friends if you want to hunt things 10 times your size

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just like utah

viral jungle
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utahs can solo hunt as inefficent as it is but theres no issue finding more

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troodon wont be the same

vagrant mural
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Yes it will

viral jungle
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unless youre hunting dryos

sinful cove
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utahs can solo hunt small animals efficiently, and so will troodon

vagrant mural
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Fucking

sinful cove
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not all other dinos are fuckin massive compared to troodon

viral jungle
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troodons could kill fresh babies yeah but anything beyond that nah

sinful cove
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we'll have a lot of dinos troodon can hunt when you have no friends on

viral jungle
sinful cove
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plus troodon is such a hyped up animal it will most likely stay as a popular pick

vagrant mural
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None of these animals exist

image0.png
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Troodon is 40 kg

wraith galleon
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troodon is gonna specialize in wearing down prey that is larger than itself, that's why it has venom

sinful cove
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troodon stands a worthwhile chance to solo hunt everything there minus utah and minmi i'd say

vagrant mural
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No

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It can only kill hypsi

viral jungle
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if a troodon can solo hunt something then you have a issue on your hand with balancing

vagrant mural
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WHAT

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EX

sinful cove
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whoa there pardner i think you're out of your league, troodon can only kill a compy 1v1

vagrant mural
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FUCKING

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SCUSE ME

viral jungle
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it takes 10mins to bleed a teno

vagrant mural
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A CARNIVORE

wraith galleon
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venom aint bleed

viral jungle
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telling me a troodon solo is gonna kill a teno alone?

vagrant mural
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BEING ABLE TO HUNT ON ITS OWN AGAINST SIMILARLY SIZED PREY IS UNBALANCED

sinful cove
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why would a troodon need to solo something so big

wraith galleon
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probably not a teno unless the teno is braindead or the troodon is a god

sinful cove
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especially on the regular

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like is troodon going to eat all that?

viral jungle
wraith galleon
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but things like minmis, avas, most small herbies and some small carnis

vagrant mural
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I legit

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Never said that

sinful cove
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go solo a protoceratops or something dont be greedy

vagrant mural
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I pointed out an entire group of fucking animals it could hunt

viral jungle
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same size

vagrant mural
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Dude what

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40 kg troodon hunting a 50 kg Beipi occasionally solo is the same as it fighting a teno solo

wraith galleon
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no one is saying a troodon should solo a tenonto

viral jungle
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how long is a troodon gonna take to grow?

vagrant mural
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No idea

sinful cove
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by this logic, an allosaurus is unviable because it cant just casually go solo a brachi

wraith galleon
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i assume 45 minutes to an hour

viral jungle
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utah is 1hr

vagrant mural
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1 hour 15*

viral jungle
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45mins to grown 40kg?

sinful cove
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utah is 1hr 10min but close enough

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is it 15 now instead of 10?

vagrant mural
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Probably 10 I forget

halcyon harness
sinful cove
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same. except magy

wraith galleon
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dryo takes like 45 so around that range

slim dragon
viral jungle
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doesnt dryo weigh like 200?

slim dragon
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And growth isn't an indicator of how much something takes to grow

vagrant mural
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120

sinful cove
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dryo is also a flight animal who has been reduced to useless in combat

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so troodon can more than likely just solo it

viral jungle
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you have 2 options imo troodon spawns full grown or it takes like 25mins to grow one

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if its full grown on spawn it shouldnt be able to solo teno like you said

slim dragon
wraith galleon
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troodon is not gonna spawn full grown

vagrant mural
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30 mins seems reasonable

sinful cove
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sure if its venom is absolute uteless water trash then it can be 25 minutes. but it more than likely wont be the case

viral jungle
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carnos spawns like 60kg and hpysi spawns like 15

vagrant mural
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Ok but carno is drastically larger

viral jungle
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look at hpysio

vagrant mural
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Ok I’m looking at an image of it

sinful cove
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you are comparing troodon to a much larger predator with a totally different playstyle and a small flight herbivore that shoots loogies at people

viral jungle
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hypsi and full grown troodon are essentially the same in weight

slim dragon
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Bruh I just noticed how big our troodon is

viral jungle
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why woiuldnt it be full grown on spawn

sinful cove
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and?

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one is designed to kill, one is designed to run away

vagrant mural
sinful cove
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troodon is designed to end other peoples' play cycles

viral jungle
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nah the other is just there

sinful cove
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hypsi is designed to be annoying and run away

wraith galleon
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troodon is significantly bigger than hypsi my guy

vagrant mural
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Like how many times do I have to state that it is legit double the size

slim dragon
viral jungle
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theres double of 1000kg and double of 1kg is just 2 theyre virtually the same

sinful cove
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??? no???

viral jungle
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20kg is nothing

sinful cove
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its half your hp

halcyon harness
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im taller than you

sinful cove
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youll probably two shot it

slim dragon
sinful cove
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maybe even one shot it if you wait for the venom to make it puke itself to death

viral jungle
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lmao

sinful cove
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go find a random person twice your size on the street and record yourself beating them up for us

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show us how easy it is

halcyon harness
vagrant mural
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Bro this rabbit gonna fight this eagle rq because it’s half the size

sinful cove
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i bet you can go beat up a lion pretty easy

wraith galleon
viral jungle
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double is relative

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when youre 20kg it means nothing

sinful cove
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its exactly double

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wtf

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how is it nothing

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it isnt nothing if you ar ein the position of the 20 and 40kg animals

wraith galleon
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double is double

halcyon harness
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guess what that 20kg has bigger feet👀

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lmao

sinful cove
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plus troodon has sharp teeth and razor claws while hypsi has a teeny little beak and might spit in your eyes if you let it

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oh yeah, and venom

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hypsi and troodon arent comparable

wraith galleon
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snake vs cockroach

sinful cove
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go compare dryo to a utah while youre at it

halcyon harness
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ahh yes the cockroach

viral jungle
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more like a penny to a dime

sinful cove
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oh yes let's compare inanimate objects that dont do anything

wraith galleon
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coin wars

sinful cove
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to two animals that would get in a onesided fight

halcyon harness
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this is a great day off.

sinful cove
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i'm sure a human infant can put up a good fight against a bobcat, i mean it's only a double weight difference right?

golden coral
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@cedar shoreDo you have any example of that? I mean, right now landing a pounce is not difficult at all, so making it harder can only be a good thing.

tacit oriole
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Pounce is one of the few things that have server-side hit registration, so lag can make pounces frustrating

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I don't think making the one decent ability Utah has harder to use is a good idea. High risk, high reward is great... unless it's your only real ability

cedar shore
tacit oriole
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@full torrent It already works that way. Stance affects bleed rate (sprinting is double standing, for example) and being low on stamina both increases bleed rate and bleed heal time

golden coral
cedar shore
cedar shore
# golden coral I'll see if I can find it later, unless you want to provide video and timestamp?...

https://youtu.be/mCddRDlS9yI go to 8:45

YouTube
The Isle News Updates
The Isle News Updates: Amarok AI Bug Fix Stream 9-2-2021

Original stream, which as always is paid subscribers only and might vanish so be wary: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1136818476

A little bit of pachy messing around as well, but not a whole lot.

Youtube was super hissy about this one and took eons to settle down...eesh.

The lovely logo and background cerato are both done by: https://www.instag...

▶ Play video
golden coral
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Thanks, will have a look when I'm done playing, then I'll provide better feedback!

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@cedar shoreI'm honestly not sure I'm seeing much of a difference, most noticable thing seem to be that the stun on miss is now shorter, for good or ill :p But it doesn't look to me like it'll be harder to land the pounce really, might require an extra tiny bit of compensation but otherwise it looks fine?

proud anchor
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Damn, just noticed that pounce change...
I do not like that. That windup is like asking to be nuked by just about anything.

golden coral
#

Pounce being safe dismounting is fine, but it shouldn't also be safe mounting.

proud anchor
#

"Safe" is subjective. There shouldn't be a lengthy animation, I want to know how this will work if jumping is involved with this new 'windup' animation being added. I expect it to be the same as current, which could be a way to mitigate this very strange choice in design change.

#

In that animation timeframe, anything can just turn to force a face-check, and send you on your ass.

golden coral
#

Not sure how that is an issue, you have a problem with being caught if you're trying to pounce something? Or what are you trying to say there? And jumping.. I don't know, jumping and pouncing is a bit weird in the first place honestly.. :p

sinful cove
#

Pounce should give a visual indicator beforehand but i don’t see any reason it should cancel the raptor's momentum in the process

proud anchor
#

Okay....

golden coral
sinful cove
#

Oh if they arent being punished as hard for missing then they do deserve to get fucked over by momentum loss nvm

#

Would honestly rather just keep the punishment for misses and not screw them over with the wind up but if misses are too forgiving now then it kinda deserves the tradeoff

proud anchor
#

It seems more balanced on both ends now. Respectable changes.

#

🤞 Lets just pray bleed and buck get fixed.

#

Make that windup pay off.

cedar shore
#

Guess we will have to playtest to find out how bad is actually is

proud anchor
#

I just hope they make it so if you can pin the target, you don't get stopped mid-air by a baby pterra, and miss the pounce.

#

Just because it's looking in your direction in the grass.

cedar shore
unborn iris
#

Pounce needs something to balance it. If they actually fix it, and it works like it's supposed to it would be overpowered. It needs a downside, just not one caused by it only working as intended 50% of the time.

cedar shore
#

since ive herd rumors that you can aim the pounce now

proud anchor
#

You can currently, up to 90 degrees.

unborn iris
#

^

cedar shore
#

havent really played utah since they fucked their balance so yeah..

unborn iris
#

You have always been able to aim the pounce.

cedar shore
#

have you?

#

since when?

unborn iris
#

Someone chasing you, you can literally alt turn behind you and pounce them.

#

Always.

proud anchor
#

With this change, I hope they have solved the pounce in shallow water bug.

cedar shore
proud anchor
#

I see no reason for there to be these massive changes before the water pounce bug is resolved.

unborn iris
#

You have always been able to aim pounce.

cedar shore
#

Just like how you can ALT bitt behind you you can alt pounce like that aswell

unborn iris
#

In fact, if you aren't aiming pounce you probably missed a lot.

cedar shore
#

get it?

unborn iris
#

That's what I just said.

#

"Someone chasing you, you can literally alt look behind you and pounce them."

cedar shore
#

wdym

unborn iris
#

Semantics.

#

Use alt to look behind you.

cedar shore
#

oh yeah but will it auto ajust the pounce?

unborn iris
#

No, you aim it.

cedar shore
#

aim it wdym??

unborn iris
#

Where you are looking is where it goes?

#

Like.. the definition of aim.

#

You point something and it goes there.

cedar shore
#

you mean just lining up the pounce for where the target will be?

unborn iris
#

👍

cedar shore
#

ALT pounce is different from that though

golden coral
#

What would an ALT pounce be?

unborn iris
#

Exactly what pounce already is.

proud anchor
#

But if you pounce their face, it counts as a miss.

unborn iris
#

Yeah, I saw that.

#

I like that one, actually.

barren oracle
#

whats going on in here

unborn iris
#

Pounce will be more useful for bigger game hunts.

golden coral
unborn iris
#

Yeah, scroll up and watch the video. Looks like you can't just pounce face anymore. Maybe even the back.

barren oracle
#

ah pounce debate

proud anchor
#

Not all the time, it just happened to me on a baby Pterra.

#

As a 50%

barren oracle
#

it sucks but atleast its fair now

#

plus utah needs a simi nerf cause bleeding is just broken not bad

unborn iris
#

Yeah, if they actually fixed pounce so it works, it would've been too OP. Just free damage and bleed.

golden coral
proud anchor
barren oracle
#

bleed for utah is op

proud anchor
#

We'll see in 4, hopefully buck and bleed are both addressed.

barren oracle
#

if you dont count that its broke

golden coral
#

Bleed isn't bad as it stands, when the bugs are fixed, they probably need to rebalance it again

proud anchor
#

Well, it's meant to be. Like Carno Bite and Teno tail is "OP"

golden coral
proud anchor
#

I dunno, but every 5th comment is "Bucking is broken right now"

barren oracle
#

everything is broken rn

unborn iris
#

Bucking seems to be the one thing that works in this game.

barren oracle
#

bucking was never broken tho

unborn iris
#

What is broken?

proud anchor
#

I think it's supposed to apply more bleed if they're already bleeding.

#

Not sure tho, don't quote me.

golden coral
#

Bucking isn't broken far as I know, except that it can break for some reason and stop working, just like you can suddenly be unable to run if you're pounced, and weird shit like that :p

#

Woot? Never heard of that Zeo

barren oracle
#

but its broken rn

golden coral
#

That would be all kinds of stupid if bucking did that I think, better to fix so bucking is the best alternative and trees/rocks more so situational and for other terrain uses (such as blocking an attack route) and similar

unborn iris
#

More bleed and no damage is kind of counter-intuitive. At what point can bigger animals just camp a wallow spot and not care about your damage.

#

Tank hits from your small damage to stop bleeding.

golden coral
unborn iris
#

Uh

#

It comes pretty close.

golden coral
#

Slows it, yes, but unless you're resting, you still bleed

#

So if they insist on doing that, just nibble them and keep their bleed open, and pounce/attack normally, unless said spot is covered from at least one side

unborn iris
#

So then this "good bleed" is no longer good bleed because they can wallow without any fear.

proud anchor
barren oracle
proud anchor
#

There ya go.

#

"Even if it bucks"

unborn iris
#

So you have to go in to nibble them every time they wallow. It's not a patience game anymore, you have to go in constantly for bites and take the risk of getting hit in return.

proud anchor
#

It's supposed to be high risk, high reward.

unborn iris
#

It's literally how good carnos are destroying whole packs of utahs right now.

golden coral
# proud anchor

Yeah, and when said bugs are fixed, it most likely need to be rebalanced. Because doing that much bleed even if bucking sounds way to good. No point in bucking then at all if it won't save you.

unborn iris
#

They don't have to worry about the bleed, wallow and stand still and the utahs have to come to you.

#

Same with stego or teno, honestly.

#

And they can afford to tank hits to trade hits.

golden coral
#

Not sure how it's an issue, if they wallow, wait until they stand up, pounce again. Not like they can move out of pounce range if they're standing there

unborn iris
#

It's easy to look from the outside and say that. But that's just not how it works. No point arguing with someone who hasn't actually played the match up. Sounds good on paper though.

golden coral
unborn iris
#

There are many bad carnos. I can almost guarantee you haven't killed one that knows how to fight utahs in this balance update, I've personally done it as a carno. Your bleed does not go down and you can literally just stand there and tank hits to trade bites with them.

#

How many utahs should be a threat to a carno?

#

But, as has been said. They are tweaking bleed. Maybe that's the issue right now.

golden coral
#

2 if they're really good and the carno is bad, 3 under more or less average I would say. About the same as teno, seeing as they both have advantages for similar reasons.

#

And maybe I've just met bad carnos, but I've also had good utahs describe the sort of tactic I've mentioned here vs good carnos so there is that

#

But you can't discount the strategy just because "carno good" or "utah bad", that's not how that works

#

My point was, you can't just wallow, because any damage will reopen the wound, and prevent you from eventually recovering. So unless you find a very good wallow spot that is "shielded", there's very little preventing the utahs from surrounding you and either run in for a nibble (or pretend to do so you can't wallow long enough to get the clotting), or just outright pounce you.

unborn iris
#

3 utahs to take a carno or a teno, eh?

#

Nibbling only works on headshots.

golden coral
#

As well as just keep harassing, since wallow will not outright stop bleed, just slow it. So if that carno is still running around, it will feel it.

unborn iris
#

And buck destroys your stamina when you pounce.

#

And the carno doesn't run around, that's the whole point. He wallows so you have to go to him.

#

And bite only bleeds on headshot. So he is getting a bite for your bite. Or you pounce and he destroys your stam

#

And you have to go rest to be of any use.

#

So he can wallow again.

golden coral
#

Which is why you take turns and so on.

unborn iris
#

👍

#

I would love to take a 3v1 as a carno, whoever you want as your pack.

#

I would put money that I win 9/10.

golden coral
#

If the carno just sits on the wallow spot, then A, you know where it's at, and B, it can't chase you around

#

Giving you time to recover your stamina

#

At some point it needs to actually get you

unborn iris
#

He is also recovering and healing faster than you.

#

That's the whole point, at that point the carno is on defense. And he has no reason to come to you, if you are trying to kill it.

proud anchor
#

Just standing against a tree is the dumbest, most OP anti-pounce coward strat in the game.
Any ideas that would make this less corny?

golden coral
proud anchor
#

YES.

golden coral
unborn iris
#

Not if he's trading a bite for every time you come in to make him bleed again.

#

The utahs die a lot faster.

golden coral
#

Because I find that to be really weird, considering how massive your blood looss can be from utah pounce as it stands, more so if you're moving around

#

Well...

#

Right, so we're working under the idea that the utahs can't successfully land the pounces and get out then without taking hits

unborn iris
#

Doesn't even have to be every time. If he can get a bite 1/5 times. He wins, he only needs 2 bites per utah.

golden coral
#

And what would stop the utahs from recovering?

unborn iris
#

Letting the carno go, you mean, because they need to heal to stay alive.

barren oracle
#

1v1 carno v utah carno wins

#

2v1 carno wins

#

3v1 draw

#

4v1 win

golden coral
#

2v1 utahs can win, at least according to the utahs I know

barren oracle
#

for utah

#

dont trust utah players

#

theyre mega cocky

golden coral
unborn iris
#

Ive killed a few carnos 2v1. But like i said, there are so many bad players in the game.

#

You can't just go from that.

barren oracle
#

carno is an easy kill for utahs if they run the standard carno mindset

#

of running alot

golden coral
#

No, you're right. But we're not arguing skill, we're arguing if the utahs consistently bleeds the carno, will it die, no matter if it wallows or not?

unborn iris
#

Yes, if they are coming after you, carno is easy.

barren oracle
#

basically

golden coral
#

Because your claim is that the carno can just hog the wallow spot and not die, while I'm claiming that since every new pounce not only reopens the wound, but also adds more bleed, the carno would inevitably bleed out unless it does kill the utahs before it's too late.

#

Especially since wallow no longer stops the bleed, so even if it does wallow, it far as I know, continues to take bleed "damage"

unborn iris
#

You are correct. It would eventually kill the carno.

#

It doesn't STOP the bleed, it but comes pretty damn close. You aren't bleeding near as much. And you are pretty much standing still.

golden coral
#

So.. why are we disagreeing with each other? At no point did I claim this was easy or that x or y is good or bad.

#

I merely pointed out that there are ways around someone wallowing

#

Maybe it's a bit more useful, but I've not felt that from the times I've been pounced to be fair

#

And that's as recent as today

unborn iris
#

I am not disagreeing with that point. I'm just saying, a carno utilizing that strategy, will win 9/10 times. Maybe every time 3v1, or it at least won't die before the utahs have to disengage.

golden coral
#

If you need to know my experience

barren oracle
#

utah is a long term hunter aswell

unborn iris
#

The whole thing started because someone said utah still needs less damage and more bleed, I was just pointing out that no damage is easily exploitable. But bleed is still going to be tweaked, so maybe all this is pointless and will be fixed next update.

golden coral
unborn iris
#

But as things stand, 3v1 good utahs vs good carno, carno has a huge advantage with that strategy.

golden coral
#

And I'm also thinking more in terms of stego than teno/carno, because those two are designed to be good vs utahs

#

More so than stego at least, though it could be said it's also designed to be good vs utahs :p But that's for when we got the other big things around

barren oracle
#

The only way you can beat utahs is to kill them

golden coral
#

But basic point is, even if you sit around and wallow, the utahs can harass you and you will bleed out, unless you manage to trick and get them before they get you

barren oracle
#

running or hiding doesnt work

golden coral
#

Utahs could get some more bite damage if stego could lose the extra multiplier :p

unborn iris
#

Yeah, trying to run is a bad strategy with the bleed. But you don't need to run, and I think I'm done talking about it because maybe I'm just making it harder on myself if some of these carnos are reading this.

golden coral
#

Hah xD

unborn iris
#

It takes 120 headshot bites right now to kill a stego.

golden coral
#

But that's good for a challenge if those carnos get better, no? :p

unborn iris
#

No, screw carnos. 😆

golden coral
unborn iris
#

Interesting, I haven't tested it myself. That was just from a science discord i am in. Maybe that's something else.

golden coral
unborn iris
#

Maybe 120 was body then and I am misremembering.

golden coral
#

Carnos used to 6-7 (not 100% sure), on stego head back then

unborn iris
#

Another thing, is bite not supposed to cause bleed from utah unless a headshot?

golden coral
#

No idea, I thought every hit but tailtip should?

#

Does it work differently on carno compared to utah? I know I got a hit on my tail from a stego earlier as carno, and that did not do bleed

midnight moat
#

SOOOO ummm i'm a full adult carno and 1 teno just 1 hit killed me with it's tail.....like what the actual fuck and i got full HP... and not only that i my friend get's hit he couldn't move for 2 seconds allowing the teno to hit him 3 full times....

#

OP much o.0 like could someone please explain how the fuck that's even merely possible

golden coral
#

@unborn irisI think they might have changed that to prevent baby utahs from bleeding out adult stegos, though I'm not sure it's a perfect solution

barren oracle
midnight moat
#

yes...

#

teno just 1 hit killed me with a full HP adult carno..

#

like wtf

barren oracle
#

steno?

midnight moat
#

yeah...

#

aye sorry a teno *

#

tenontosaurus

barren oracle
#

yeah thats cause you got headshot by a tailslam

midnight moat
#

how could it hit my head when i'm looking away from it

barren oracle
#

idk skill issue

midnight moat
#

lol..

#

i jut don't see a point in that at all as it was a sub adult Teno just 1 hit killing an adult carno with full hp

barren oracle
#

i doubt it was sub

midnight moat
#

it was a sub

barren oracle
#

thats physically inpossible

#

if you were an adult it wouldnt be able to stun you

midnight moat
#

I Am...well....aware... of that...

#

Bruh i didn't get stuned i got 1 hit killed..

#

that's what's really bugging me

#

and no my head was away from it's tail

barren oracle
#

you cant get 1 hit killeeedd

midnight moat
#

BRUH clearly

#

cus i got hit once with a tail slam i was full HP I just died

#

BOOM dead

barren oracle
#

only stegss can

#

yourrr a liarrr

midnight moat
#

Bruh -.-

golden coral
#

... I don't think a fully grown teno can oneshot a fully grown carno, no matter what attack it uses or where it lands. Even a tailslam on the head will not kill the carno in one hit, it needs another one or two at least.

proud anchor
#

I'm getting sick of Carnos just standing face-first inside trees...
"Balanced vs Utahs"

golden coral
#

? :p

proud anchor
#

An entire raptor pack ran their stam down on a Carno, and it lived.

#

He just kept scraping trees like a scrub.

#

Bled for about... 15min?

#

Lived, all raptors died. Every one got a pounce, and he's just fine.

#

Carnos be like:

golden coral
#

How many utahs?

proud anchor
#

8 or so?

#

Maybe half full grown.

#

But all were pouncing, and he wasn't bucking, and he lived, killed every last one of us.

#

Due to trees, while he was full-sprint from tree to tree with full stacks of bleed.

golden coral
#

So about 4 grown utahs then. You sure he wasn't bucking? Still sounds like he should have bled out from 3 full grown utah pounces. Pretty sure even a carno, especially not one running around, survives that.

proud anchor
#

Strangely enough, he wasn't bucking just trying to scrape on trees.

golden coral
#

Hm

proud anchor
#

So, count that as bucking in terms of time spent pounced.

#

VERY LIMITED windows.

#

Because he was standing inside trees every sprint.

#

So he substantially limited his bleeds by essentially exploiting a game mechanic flaw.

golden coral
#

So probs not much bleed, then, but I imagine he was still very low on blood by the end of it. And well, it's not really a flaw I don't think, using terrain should be a thing, and if he was running then at least he didn't just rub on the tree constantly. Was this in open grounds or somewhere in a forest or so?

proud anchor
#

Using terrain to just spin in a circle and be invulnerable isn't a skill.

#

I agree it should be a thing, but it makes no sense for the stun to be 4-5 seconds when it's the easiest tactic in the game currently.

#

Stam loss? Sure. Dismount? Sure. 5 second stun? Debatable.

golden coral
#

Yeah, could be plenty enough to just get the utah off, especially if it's combined with having to be running. Would be more of a "I need to get out of here while I can", instead of standing and fighting

proud anchor
#

5 second stun on stam buck fail, that's respectable.

#

The real fix is like you suggested.. Having to be running for it to be a tactic.

indigo vigil
#

Me when I see Official Isle mods defending the nerfed utah stats

unknown.png
golden coral
#

@vale harnessYou mean run stamina? If so, I quite agree. No reason a stego can run like that. I get that people want to move around, but.. you're a stego. If you're not okay with the slow pace of that critter, don't be one.

sonic flame
#

It's for the juvi Stego

#

can't change the stam of one without changing the stam of the other

proud anchor
#

If you buff the Carno stam, they'd outstam the Utah, and have more speed, too.

tidal obsidian
proud anchor
#

I propose nerfing the Utah further. Kthxbai.
Sincerely,

  • A Utah Main
tidal obsidian
#

thats so true a pack of 10 adult utah to hold pocket pond for about an hour after that they just get flushed by almost every dino

proud anchor
#

Have you ever been at shallows, and the Teno/Carno/Stego/ANYTHING just stands in the water because they know they're untouchable?

What are they so afraid of?

Oh, that's right, getting rekt.

Fix water pounce bug, and refactor trees.

tidal obsidian
proud anchor
# indigo vigil Me when I see Official Isle mods defending the nerfed utah stats

The Isle devs defend it, because they'll be AMAZING when everything is finished, and they're viable.
They're currently viable, if you can avoid getting cheesed on the many many bugs, be it bucking animations not playing, bleed being broken, water stunning your pounce, or trees being OP vs pounce, once it's all fleshed out, Utahraptors will be nearly unstopable.

indigo vigil
#

Doubt it

#

Get it needs to be weak, but it won't be skills anymore

proud anchor
#

Me and my buddy stayed alive all day, and have a lot of big game under our belt. Doubt sidestepped.

#

Just two Utahs being that much of a menace, if you catch a solo, they're pretty much dead.

indigo vigil
#

More so just you gotta select what you can or can't fight and I see utah as carni ai currently due to how all the creatures rn are to combat utah

#

Why add it tbh rn

#

Delete the utah files, it'll cos less lag maybe lol

proud anchor
#

My buddy alone killed two stegos (in a herd), and that's with the bleed not functioning properly.

indigo vigil
#

Yeah I had my fair share of that fun but it's so % based

tidal obsidian
#

wait are u saying to remove utah

proud anchor
#

I think he's saying don't add Utah AI.

indigo vigil
#

Honestly go right on ahead, it's a useless character in the game

proud anchor
#

Well, what would the Carno fight? They run from Stegos and Tenos.

tidal obsidian
proud anchor
indigo vigil
#

Game wise on its usefulness, its a useless class if u want a 100% skill and not a 'might happen might not' type of deal

indigo vigil
tidal obsidian
#

lol

proud anchor
#

Honestly, never seen a pack of Carnos ever even approach a Stego. Not this patch cycle.

indigo vigil
#

Lucky bastard.. But what do I know.. I stopped playing evrima after utah turned into a non poisonous troodon

proud anchor
#

The only thing I see even damage a stego (Outside Utahs) is Dienos.

indigo vigil
#

Utahs, goodluck

proud anchor
#

They're an easy kill, WDYM?

indigo vigil
#

You gotta have so much skill and luck with ur ping, glitches and whatnot

proud anchor
#

You need to play more this pass... Rubberbanding is pretty much gone.

indigo vigil
#

Was there an update that I didn't hear about since all I'm hearing here is not what I've heard about

proud anchor
#

It's a lot more true to accuracy, bait and pounce, if you're in a field, they're RIP.

#

The "Lag" is due to files being added prematurely in the Center and other areas. Rubberbanding happens, but it's infrequent.

indigo vigil
#

Still.. 50 bite and 450 weight

proud anchor
#

Bite is just a bleed tool, fam.

indigo vigil
#

I'll check it out, but definitely not too soon on the lag part

proud anchor
#

If you were biting with Utah, you weren't understanding it's direction to begin with. It's not a head-on combatant.

tidal obsidian
#

you guys utah ai is staying

indigo vigil
#

Dude I don't w+m1 into a carnos face

proud anchor
#

Bite is just bleed reapply.

#

You CAN use bite... But anyway ~ this isn't about balance at this point.
It's not meant to be used as a damage tool. That's designed for smaller game, not something like a Carno.

#

Bleed is the key.

#

Lemme go grab it again.... Sec.

indigo vigil
#

Idk man, I really don't find the bleed way safe from my last big experiences

proud anchor
#

It's not, cause bleed is bugged. It's not adding proper values currently.

#

It's viable against something like a Stego or Teno, but Carno is too risky rn, and that's due to bleed being a real taxing situation currently.

#

I'm not saying it's impossible, but VS a Carno, it's more likely you're gonna get nipped by comparison to the other two.

indigo vigil
#

My way was to let a buddy pounce, if the enemy bucks I run in alt biting their legs or face / if they don't buck. Let us pounce 1 at a time

Just all those seemed to not work since stans shit on utah

#

N bites just too smallllll

#

I get its a bleed in the game

tidal obsidian
#

its easier to fight a carno as a baby utah since the carno struggle to hit u

indigo vigil
#

But they said they want to go for realism

proud anchor
#

Bite is small, but it's to re-open wounds.

#

Baby is a fantastic fight vs carno, but the bleed is still too small atm.

indigo vigil
#

Ik, but I'm taking bleed off the talk atm

tidal obsidian
#

whenever i fighting carnos as adult utah is imposible since ur such a big target

indigo vigil
#

Realistically clawing at someone's side should do a lot of damage as well

proud anchor
#

You can get nipped beyond your tail from a Carno, the lag compensation is just too crazy right now for the game. It has a positive effect on Carno's insane speed.

indigo vigil
#

Or when theres 4 utahs on a tenonto, with their weight shouldn't they pin..

indigo vigil
proud anchor
#

I mean, you're not wrong on damage ~ I'll give you that.

indigo vigil
#

Since if u dont its a useless class

#

If its how it'll go along the updates

#

Also shitty composition of what comes out, I'll add that

proud anchor
#

The lag compensation need work on all fronts, for sure, but for Teno and Stego, they have such insane animations it's easy to bait and pounce than with Carno, where it's fast as fuck, and it benifits HEAVILY from the compensation, since it has no animations that make it vulnerable.
It's the only one that doesn't of the big 3, mind you.

indigo vigil
#

'we will add smalls and up'

Currently : AYY LETS ADD A CROCKEY IN ERE AY?

mmm A SPIKY DORITO TOO!!!!

Oh nn000 I NEED CARNOS!! Almost forgOt.

Hmmmm, last big boy? hehehe tenonto that 2 claws utah with a 180 range of attack

proud anchor
#

I don't disagree on the Teno's reach due to poor compensation.

#

But it's not a core fundamental issue with the characters, that's an issue with the servers.

indigo vigil
#

It just feels so dumb man.. First ever 2 dinos was utah n tenonto

#

And 1 of them rn has all the dinos in the game go against its abilities

#

Stegos are a kinda less against it, but its stats do bring risk to utahs

#

Especially with the lag

proud anchor
#

I'm just happy to see rubberbanding taken care of.
If they can progress from here, and get the hit reg and compensation fine-tuned, then we've got a very playable game.

#

It's passable, just not where it needs to be.

indigo vigil
#

Rr, I still say if they can't fix it they'll need to buff utah

#

If they don't it's gonna become a class that's just not viable since it so dependant on timing

proud anchor
#

I feel that the Utah could do with some more HP, and give it's tail less damage. (Carno 3shotting the body AND the tail is insanely dumb)

indigo vigil
#

Exactly

#

It either needs more hp or more bleed with damage (not a lot, but cmon..)

proud anchor
#

Bleed will happen, it's not working as intended.

indigo vigil
#

Also, really hate the tenonto 1 tap rn

proud anchor
#

Damage... That's something that we'll have to see afterwards of the fix.

indigo vigil
#

It already was broke with its knock down

#

Now it's an instant kill

proud anchor
#

Teno Tail is busted.

indigo vigil
#

Yeah

proud anchor
#

It's range needs a pullback, and two seperate hit zones, one light one heavy.

indigo vigil
#

I loved the first version of evrima the most ngl

tidal obsidian
#

you guys go on arguing bie

proud anchor
#

The biggest issue for the Utah is the bugs, and trees.
Good things come to those who wait.

#

I don't think it needs more damage, but it would be nice.

#

What it NEEDS is a little more speed. Being the same speed as the Dryo is silly.

indigo vigil
#

Yeah, honestly I loved the legacy stats of everything. But the turns and whatnot could do some work

proud anchor
#

Inertia has it's issues. For sure.

indigo vigil
#

Also really think the alt shouldn't be that fast on big things, slow it down a little more on stego but on carno a lot more since its a very leggy thing so I'd imagine those legs are more hard to move large distances if it's not in 1 straight line

#

Unlike stego which is 4 legs so lots of stability so I'm fine with that

proud anchor
#

Stego alt is way too fast... That big tail? Whew..

#

It's easily baitable, but as a main attack that is so spammable, that's certainly a problem. Especially for Dieno.

indigo vigil
#

Yeah, it's a lot of weight. It should be harder to wind up but hard to stop

#

So it's a more if you get hit, you are.. Well..
f u c k e d

proud anchor
#

If it were slower, you'd see a lot more Carnos fight Stego.

indigo vigil
#

Yeah

#

Though from what I've seen, easy to fight stegos as carno, least the not fully adult ones since their tail attacks seem.. Slower

#

You can just bayblade them as I said

proud anchor
#

The damage can stay the same, but the risk is not it's reset animation. The risk has to be the massive swing that merits the damage.

indigo vigil
#

Drift around its front constantly, face a drift into it so it attacks and then do a drift insta after

#

Yeah

proud anchor
#

It's reset animation could stay the same, as well. It's fine where it is on it's recovery, but the windup has to be something more pronounced.

indigo vigil
#

I wish there were 2 versions of swinging prob, 1 a very heavy and slow one and another a more weak 'body push' one

#

But that's very iffy

proud anchor
#

Right, like and Alt LMB for light swing.

#

So, a body push being just default RMB.

#

It's an iffy call there, because that'd have to be fast and it could really just annihilate Utahs.
More Carnos would probably fight, but certainly less Utahs if that were the case, depending.

#

Either that, or they'd just have to be forced to bait the swing, which has it's drawbacks to gameplay.

#

Well.. Raptors are getting a pounce animation refactor, so... KEKDOGE

indigo vigil
#

I'd think the push would be a more on its hips though so maybe it'd bring a good opening to bite the head

proud anchor
#

That's iffy because of how the hitboxes are so massive right now.

indigo vigil
#

Also lol imagine a stego just kong fu panda a utah by belly punching it away

proud anchor
#

Pffff

#

That'd be a vibe check, for sure.

indigo vigil
#

Just make the stego be able to maybe shield attacks that way to its sides

#

And slow it's hit dowb a lil

#

Down*

#

It'd promote it being more defensive too

#

Instead of the attack soldier stegos..

proud anchor
#

It should be...

#

⏲️

tidal obsidian
#

⏲️

proud anchor
#

They say it's how they want it to work atm, but honestly, there is always room for improvement.

tacit oriole
#

Client-side means if you think you hit someone, you hit them (and if they think they hit you, no matter how much they are lagging, they get the hit). The only exception is Pounce, which is server side - hence why sometimes it will look like you pounced and then you just get teleported off

#

And the natural outcome of no lag compensation and client-side hit registration is if you or the person you are fighting is laggy then they will hit you from what, on your side, feels like ages away

#

A small amount of lag compensation will probably get added at some point, but having largely client-side hit registration was the right way to do it, imo. The issues with "how did he hit me" is better than the issues with "how the hell didn't that hit them", and it also uses less server resources (AKA it lets you have higher player counts without using shards). It also lets you use lower server tick rates, further increasing your total player count.

#

Battlefield gets around the issue a different way, Frostbite doesn't have typical server networking and tick rates, but it's not realistic to expect Afterthought to develop their own engine inside UE to do the same

#

And Battlefield has similar "How tf he hit me" issues anyway

tacit oriole
#

@proud anchor you can't sprint while pounced...

#

There is a bug which sometimes lets you, but it's exactly that

proud anchor
#

Ugh, that's a shame. There has to be a way to solve this dumb tree issue.

tacit oriole
#

Giving them a decent non-pounce attack would be start

#

Tree camping can be exploited by a pack though, when they are trying to brush another Utah off one side you pounce the other

#

And just keep alternating and playing slow

#

I've had it used against me pretty effectively

#

If Utah had a decently long hunger/water timer they could starve out dedicated tree campers, too. Have to see how their diets are set up in U4

#

Maybe some sort of faster hit-and-run alt-pounce type attack?

golden coral
#

@proud anchorThe stego jab is already easily baitable and avoidable, it doesn't need to be any harder, especially since stego is a pure defender with no way to pressure an opponent effectively. Considering you only have about 20 attacks, it's not spammable unless you want to die I guess. I have no idea what you're on about when you talk about ALT attacks, stego has no alt attack, unless you just meant LMB/RMB, and not holding alt? And carnos are not meant to fight stegos, they never should, so that's not an issue. Utahs are the desginated large game hunters, carnos are the opposite, small game hunters. They should not hunt stuff more than their own weight if even that.

Now if stego got a proper swing, then we could have both a fast but "weak" swing for utahs and other similar animals (like in legacy or similar), as well as the power jab for large things. Would make the midtiers the best hunters vs a stego, strong enough to tank a swing, agile enough to juke a jab. Not sure on a "body check", I'd leave that for kentro that has spikes to use with it. Let stego just work with swings as it should, fast and slow ones, add a "wiggle" that can be used while moving, and keep the bite for tiny stuff I guess.

#

@tacit orioleYou sure you can't run while pounced? Normally I've been told it's a bug if you can't run, not the other way around?

tacit oriole
#

Pretty sure? I can never run while pounced and I thought that was intended

proud anchor
#

I mean, it's speed being instant is the focus.
It could use an alt attack, however.

tacit oriole
#

I agree that swings make more sense than jabs for stego

golden coral
#

Well, jab would make sense as a power attack vs things like rex or giga

#

Things that wouldn't be juking much, if at all

tacit oriole
#

Heavy swing attack, light jab maybe, and reduce the available arc for jab. Give swing some fracture potential against apex legs

golden coral
#

And have a legacy style swing, more or less, for smaller and agile stuff that would juke but can't take a hit at all in the first place

proud anchor
#

Well, if something goes through the tail, and it has to do a massive swing animation, don't you think an Alt attack could fill the "Light Attack" role, to give it an opening?

golden coral
#

Stego should have swings, not a proper stego if it's not, but I can see a jab as an alt attack

tacit oriole
#

I mean really you get hit in the side of you leg by a stego swing you'll probably end up on your back

golden coral
#

I'd make the jab the heavy, the swing the light and fast attack with good coverage, that makes more sense

proud anchor
#

The thing is, that Stego relies on MASSIVE damage as it's only true means of attack, but it has a drawback. I'm proposing a light attack alternative, to avoid being forced to spam only one attack, and having options.

golden coral
#

The swing is supposed to give the coverage/anti-flank

#

Not the jab, stego is not a precision animal, nor should it be

tacit oriole
proud anchor
#

I mean, I was just bouncing off the other guy's ideas.
I have no problem with the swing, other than it's insane speed.

tacit oriole
#

Swings with a big wind up seem like they'd be harder to hit, too, like punches

golden coral
#

Problem is, using quick jabs as the anti-flank is not very useful I don't think, it's too hard to hit and goes against the whole "swing once, cover entire side"

tacit oriole
#

A few people have suggested swing only and just have it able to be charged up a hit for heavier attacks, like punches or sword attacks in fighting games

golden coral
#

Well, if we get that full control of the tail Dondi mentioned, that could be a thing

#

Remove jab, make swing, allow for control of arc and power

proud anchor
#

Well, I'm not saying give it a massive windup, more like a windup that the Raptor pounce has in Update 4.

tacit oriole
#

I like the idea of being able to charge and hold a swing - but that it would limit you to one particular side

#

Maybe have a little bit of stam drain while charged

proud anchor
#

Very minor, but a 'tell' more than a disabling speed nerf.

golden coral
proud anchor
#

Oooo that would be sick.

golden coral
#

So as long as you avoid that particular angle, the stego jabs aren't that hard to bait and juke

proud anchor
#

Jab? Jab by definition is a quick light attack.
This is a quick, MASSIVE attack. Lol.

tacit oriole
#

I feel like it would be a trade off - pre-charging the swing means you can get a quick, powerful attack off but you also broadcast where you are aiming at

#

Makes for good body language too if someone starts getting a bit close

proud anchor
#

Telegraphing attacks from bigger dinos should be a thing, JS.

golden coral
#

Utah pounce should be telegraphed too for that matter, if we're talking about showing off when you're doing a certain attack or so

proud anchor
#

It is going to be.

#

Minor, but it's getting a small nerf.

#

The slight windup.

#

However, the trade is that it's finally getting it's recovery time marginalized.

#

People are worried this is going to kill all the momentum.

golden coral
#

Yeh, I've seen. And yeah, as long as they can't spam the pounce, I'm fine with the recovery time being lessened.

#

It was just stupid that you could spam the pounce and use it to move around and so on

proud anchor
#

Well, if they spam pounce, they're asking for trouble.

#

It's really just about having the stam to make the pounce worth it.

#

I feel like when bleed is 'working as intended' it will be nerfed after that.
They way they intend may be WAY too powerful, honestly.

golden coral
#

Maybe, we'll see. I've had different reports on how good bleed is as it stands so :p

proud anchor
#

Bleed is okay as is, however the stacks don't seem to be working right.

golden coral
#

And yeah, I know they can't spam pounce anymore, just saying. Back then you could, and people would use the pounce to just jump over water or similar.

#

Which was a bit odd :p

proud anchor
#

5 raptors pouncing a solo Carno should kill it.
I don't care how many exploits they use.

golden coral
#

So even if they're making the recovery faster, it's good that there's something so pounce is an attack and not a movement option :p

proud anchor
#

So... If it goes back up in deadliness, I can expect some Carnos turning tail at Raptos when solo, rather than charging expecting a 5 course meal.

#

The fact there can be that many pounces, and it doesn't bleed out, rather it heals out, is just wrong on so many levels. Lol.
(Without wallowing or resting, mind you)

golden coral
#

I think even a few short pounces should have caused that carno some issue, not quite sure what you all did there. But yeah, a solo carno seeing three adult utahs should be a bit wary.

tacit oriole
#

A full pounce to a full everything carno, if they sprint around, takes 70% of their blood pool

#

If they are out of stam and try to walk away it kills them

#

The only thing that carno really has in its favour is it can just run away... But Utah's can keep up if they start with stam.
Plus Utahs can't really dodge a carno in the open

#

The key part is teamwork, if someone is being chased someone else needs to be pouncing before they get bit

proud anchor
#

Can't Really Dodge
Yeah, now that's a problem, you see.

#

I just got teleport bit on a 90 degree turn with distance because the difference in speed, and clientside bite on their end is insane.
It has to be high ping carnos taking advantage of this. I have low ping, but always suffer for it.

tacit oriole
#

Yeah, high ping is absolutely a bonus for carnos

unborn iris
#

High ping is a bonus for everything but the animals that die in 1-2 hits.

proud anchor
#

Honestly, high ping Teno > Carno for that tailsam.

sturdy terrace
#

Does anyone utilize running away from a carno as teno its incredibly effective

sinful cove
#

Not everybody wants to run away or wait to be attacked

#

Tenonto is a brawler, stego is a defensive, dryo is flight

#

Teno is supposed to be aggressive if you look at him the wrong way

sturdy terrace
#

Personal I don’t like that playstyle, its a survival game after all

#

I personally like having carno case me, not only is it immersive but also very effective at denying the carno a approach

sinful cove
#

If you dont like brawler herbis just dont play them, dont ruin them for those who enjoy that style

#

If you want to run away play a dryo or a galli or something, herbis shouldnt all do the same shit

#

You want the faction to be even more boring so even less people play them. Wait to be attacked or run away, boring.

#

Variety is a good thing

sturdy terrace
#

I was pointing out how effective this play strat is TI_LUL

sinful cove
#

You said “pronote a more dedensive playstyle” like you want all herbis to be clones of eachother. Either wait to be attacked and play on the defensive or shit themselves running

#

Carnis get play-style variety, herbis should too, they shouldn’t always be made to react only

#

Tenonto should very well be able to eliminate a careless threat when it has the chance before the enemy has time to plan their attack first

#

Carno and utah can run away as well

dusky surge
#

I mean, brawler implies a more defensive playstyle imo

sturdy terrace
#

Ok look, teno cant really be agro against a carno that just doesn’t want to fight

sinful cove
#

Brawler implies it can choose to attack before its attacked

sturdy terrace
#

Or a utah so I don’t see your point

sinful cove
#

Unlike a defensive such as stego who does not have that liberty 90% of the time

sturdy terrace
#

The carnivore is always the aggressor

dusky surge
#

A cerato, for example, would be more of a brawler than other dinos and play far more defensively

sinful cove
#

Not really, again i said a careless threat, which is who tenonto typically kills already

sturdy terrace
#

Good thing u brought up cera. How is cera going to fair against a group of tenos if they are faster

sinful cove
#

A lot pf people seem to forget they are faster than the herbis they provoke

sturdy terrace
#

Will teno just be hunting ceras like they are carnivores

sinful cove
#

Is cera going to be slower than teno? Id imagine theyd be similar speed

dusky surge
#

I think cera and teno would be pretty close. Maybe cera would have a slight speed advantage

sinful cove
#

Cera wont be utah fast obviously but he looks like he can match teno

dusky surge
#

With teno, you could just kick the pursuing cera and make it leave you alone anyways

sinful cove
#

True esp if fractures come into play

#

Wonder if carno charge, teno kick and slam and deino bite will get fracs

#

They really should

sturdy terrace
#

You cant make every carnivores faster then the herbivores btw

dusky surge
#

Cera should be one of EVRIMA's slower land carnivores (for its size tier). I'm excluding aquatics and apexes because they're their own things. Obviously it should outrun a rex or a sucho or some shit, but like, it shouldn't be the fastest or anywhere close to a utah or a carno

sturdy terrace
#

Eventually something will be slower

sinful cove
#

If it can out endure the herbi and our maneuver them they dont need to be faster most of the time, the main worry would be other large predators and packs/herds

#

If a teno herd spotted a slower pred that preds probably dead unless its a god tier escape artist or the herd is full of idiots

sturdy terrace
#

So u want herbivores to run around killing carnivores on sight

sinful cove
#

Which is why imo brawlers should stay in a mid speed range and not be faster than many predators aside from ones it cant fight

sinful cove
#

I said it would happen

#

Thats all

sturdy terrace
sinful cove
#

Defensives = too slow to make an offensive move
Brawlers = mid level speed that can chase down injured enemies and eliminate careless threats
Flight = faster than their predators or having other means for escaping instead of fighting

#

Tenonto shouldnt be hunting carnis unless the carni is dumb which honestly a lot are, they forget they are faster and that wallowing exists. Sometimes youre just our of stam but then again youre bait for any attacker at that point

#

If you attack a brawler you should be ready for them to follow your crippled ass when you retreat

dusky surge
#

I mean, carnivores have endurance, brawlers and ambush on the other end. Brawlers are the same among carnis and herbis, moderate speeds but a focus of fighting and injuring.

sinful cove
#

Pretty much. Brawlers are specialized in taking and dishing out damage, so they have less to run from in their tiers, so less need for high speeds but just enough to finish a fight or run an enemy off

sturdy terrace
#

The devs said they didn’t want to make the game but pvp based instead focused towards survival

sinful cove
#

There are different tactics for survival

#

Sometimes you gotta be aggressive, sometimes a situation calls for running away

sturdy terrace
#

But combat should be discouraged I think

dusky surge
#

Why

sinful cove
#

Tenonto can afford to be aggressive and it should stay that way

dusky surge
#

Combat shouldn't be the only thing to do, sure

sinful cove
#

If you can eliminate some dumb overconfident predator that may become a threat or find a pack later on then you should be very much allowed to

#

It is a survival tactic to eliminate threats when given the chance

dusky surge
#

Personally I'd like some level of lasting penalty to combat to stop people from just randomly running up and KOSing shit, but like, most things can at least run from tenontos

sinful cove
#

I think that was the intent of the health caps, hopefully they work on that

#

They added them without a remedy to heal them faster stuff

#

And in an unstable ecosystem where you kinda have to fight rn

sturdy terrace
#

Ye having something like that would be good, magy would make more sense now

#

Cant wait for magy

dusky surge
#

Magy still seems like a brawler to me tbh

sturdy terrace
#

All herbivores should be more defensive. Dont see wilderbeast massacre lions now

sinful cove
#

Ive seen a deer run across multiple yards to stomp on a dog that looked at it a couple seconds too long

dusky surge
#

I think a key issue is that there really isnt many dinos that make players really nope out atm. Besides maybe a utah v carno, since carnos are practically made to fuck with utahs, but that's been received strangely. Deino maybe, but since deino is often kind of vibing in the water, it's not often it poses a huge threat. Like, if kentro was added, utah or herrera wouldn't touch it with a 50 foot pole because it literally has a passive defence to their primary killing moves.

sinful cove
#

There was also a vid posted here recently of a deer attacking an eagle

#

Think it got deleted for obvious reasons

dusky surge
#

Until there are enough diverse dinos to warrant people choosing their matchups more carefully, people will KOS anything and everything they can

sinful cove
#

Then there were buffalo who randomly gored some lion cubs they found, fuckers even took turns

#

And hippos kfs other herbis for fun if they catch them at the water

#

People dont realize how mean herbivores are

dusky surge
#

Even so, herbis ARE more defensive

#

It's in their best interest to be so for survival

sinful cove
#

Usually but not always and they shouldnt be discouraged from eliminating threats when given the chance

#

Why should they wait for that utah to grow up and attack them later? Why should they ignore that oblivious carno who may attack them later? An opportunity is an opportunity and herbivores irl even take them at times

#

Sure they shouldnt actively hunt predators i agree in that

dusky surge
#

IMO, its because its not worth the trouble of fighting that thing when you could instead live another day

sinful cove
#

But they shouldnt be discouraged from taking advantage of an easy kill on something that has potential to be a future threat

dusky surge
#

I'd prefer not to be bleeding, bruised or even dead because I picked a dumbass fight with a carno

sinful cove
#

Well thats you, but some people may feel that it is worth the tradeoff of resetting a predator back to hatchling stage

#

Plus sometimes you can get away with it with minimal injury

dusky surge
#

I've seen tons of herbis be dumb as fuck and run into unnecessary encounters and die because they really wanted to kill a baby utah and that alerted the entire pack

sinful cove
#

And also i dont want to let some crippled pred just walk away from me after they picked a fight, i want to finish that bastard off

sinful cove
#

Just because somebody is so bloodthirsty they want to kos any juvie they see doesnt mean that everybody should be discouraged from eliminating future threats when they deem it worth the risk, because some people are cautious, and sometimes a predator just hangs around for too long

dusky surge
#

I'll be honest wasting all my stam on killing a crippled utah seems worthless imo, especially if their pack isn't far behind. With fractures, you'd likely instantly win the moment you fracture the legs and make them unable to pursue, since a predator only wins a hunt if they kill their prey. Use your stam to fuck up your aggressor, then haul ass and abandon it to die or lose you imo

tidal obsidian
sinful cove
#

Not everything is in a pack. If i am attacked and the predator is limping away i want to make sure itll be hours before they can attack me again

#

It depends on the person

#

You can choose to leave or finish the job

#

And that should be fine

tidal obsidian
sinful cove
#

You mean encourage mass baby murder right? I dont think we should encourage that, just encourage the option to have options

tidal obsidian
#

Later with nesting yes but know is not the time to stop mass baby murder

tidal obsidian
sinful cove
#

Flee the scene or finish the job, which is more worth it in the situation? It should be a choice

#

Bass baby murder rn is kinda justified because carnis have to vacuum up a whole barn to feed themselves lol

#

And herbis are bored, but thats the usual

tidal obsidian
dusky surge
#

I mean, here's the funny thing. By killing the carnivore, aren't you also attracting other carnivores and feeding more carnivores? The smell of a corpse would attract predators who would follow it to either find you, resting after a fight, or find food, overall increasing the survival of part of the carnivore population

sinful cove
#

With diets there will be less incentive to run across the whole plains to tail slam spam some resting carno anyway

tidal obsidian
sinful cove
#

Yeah if you stay in the area youre likely to run in to trouble but you can leave after usually

tidal obsidian
sturdy terrace
#

Why would u want it to finish of the carnivore if u want to fight so badly. Wouldn’t a rematch be more fun?

sinful cove
#

Nah i wanna make them regret their decision

tidal obsidian
sinful cove
#

Another bout of conflict would he inevitable anyway

#

So why not finish off the spent attacker right

#

Send his ass back to the selection screen for daring to walk in to my tail

#

Mainly because i am salty and toxic but still

slim dragon
#

@primal dove A stego stunning itself by swinging into a rock would be even more dumb

primal dove
#

less cooldown on rocks then for a stego

slim dragon
#

Same thing applies for teno

slim dragon
primal dove
#

but u also have to say that a stegos tail piercing through a stone with no knockback is also kinda dumb

slim dragon
primal dove
primal dove
slim dragon
primal dove
#

swords also do the same thing, but what happens if u hit a rock with a sword.

slim dragon
hollow canyon
#

You chip the sword but Tenonto's/Stego's tail isn't a sword.

primal dove
#

not 10s long

hollow canyon
#

I don't see any reason why they should stun themselves while hitting objects with their tails

golden coral
#

I mean, it could be fine to discourage just swiping mindlessly, if we don't have proper collision, as we should have?

#

But better to just make it so you can't attack through things if that's possible

primal dove
#

just balance and gameplay wise

slim dragon
primal dove
#

doesnt matter if they´d stagger irl or not

hollow canyon
#

They shouldn't get staggered either

#

I don't see how that's balanced

primal dove
#

disencouraging players to stand in 1 spot to fight things from a safe spot

#

i dont see how THAT is balanced

golden coral
slim dragon
primal dove
#

carni come, me go bush, me stay, me swipe, life good

primal dove
#

they aren´t deers

#

they have these funny spikes

#

and some nice boneplates on their back

golden coral
slim dragon
#

Yeah and they do fight ?

golden coral
#

Cutting of attack angles and all that is fine after all

hollow canyon
#

It's natural for any animal to want to pick a defensive spot which allows it to defend itself easier. I don't see anything wrong with that

primal dove
primal dove
hollow canyon
#

Oh, you're talking about the palm bushes - yea those are dumb