#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 282 of 1

thin mantle
#

It's one of the reasons the Utah pounce kinda rubs me the wrong way. I understand it's purpose for balance and I'm totally fine with it's use, but it's so odd as an animal that large tearing through the flank of a larger animal for up to 22 seconds and only doing about 5% of the targets health

#

(sorry I know it's unrelated but it just kinda popped into my head, again I get it's purpose for game balance but it is an odd stat balance based on it's anims)

sinful cove
#

Limiting the amount of a faction per server will just kill servers

#

Why do people think its a good idea i see it suggested so much

thin mantle
sinful cove
#

It doesnt even service herbivore players

#

Youd just
A. Make the server dead
B. Have more aggro carni mains playing herbi and killing their own kind for fun

thin mantle
sinful cove
#

It is annoying seeing and hearing carnis every 10 seconds but making pvp thirsty carni mains play herbi is just gonna hurt both sides lol

pale forge
#

sorry i think the only major things wrong atm are hitbox bugs and growth times

sinful cove
#

Grow times nah, hitboxes and bugs sure

#

Just go play on a freegrow server

pale forge
#

i play evirma and they are NEVER populated or i would

sinful cove
#

Short grow times will just fuck up the ecosystem like legacy

pale forge
#

i agree

sinful cove
#

40 stegos and 40 deinos, 20 everything else

pale forge
#

just hard for somebody like me to grow something big with my schedule

#

if i get rubberbanded into something and die i dont have another 3 hours to wait

dawn falcon
#

Rubberbanding?

#

Wasn’t that patched?

pale forge
#

na 3 was plagued hard with it last night

#

it was terrible

dawn falcon
#

Were you teleporting all over the place or just stuttering and teleporting short distances

pale forge
#

id teleport back a few yards

dawn falcon
#

That might be microstuttering then

#

Happens whenever you enter a new tile

#

The game is plagued with it for some reason

pale forge
#

ahh

sinful cove
#

Isnt bleed kinda bugged thats why the pounce is kinda bad rn

#

Movement fatigue/lethargy seems more in line with what troo venom looks like it may do

worldly venture
#

^

sinful cove
#

you typing up an essay kak lol

dusky thicket
#

This Utah nerf is super weird imo, at least at this point in evrima. I have played the patch since it came out and done a bunch of tests on private server. Im not even sure the devs properly test this before release. If the devs want to make Utah a bleeder they should up the bleeding from bite as well as from pounce. For now the utah pounce is not viable at all for killing anything execept maybe for a lone teno or carno (which is extremly rare to find, always in packs) and stegos we shouldn't even talk about, stegos can just buck hold alt and spam rmb and will catch u in the air on dismount.
And with the current stamina drain is nearly impossible to do anything, one buck and half stam is drained, and you can barely get away from fighting carno or teno, also the stamina regen is super slow. I mean I think i get what devs want to do here by implementing a ecosytem. But im very confused what the devs want with the utah since they lowered blood pools and upped the pounce bleeding, this should mean that they want us to hunt bigger game or what?. e.g i was in a fight with 2 tenos and 3 utahs( i played utah), we did what the devs wanted us to do, surround and pounce cycled them( like pounce get stam etc.) 3-4 pounces on one teno(with bucking), and they could just walk off and bleeding stopped shortly after. They got to a better defensive position and there was nothing we could do. Like im really confused what they want atm with utah!

dusky thicket
#

just neede to vent this shit

#

is just tragic wiht utah atm

sinful cove
#

i think one of the devs did say they tested new utah vs stego at least and were satisfied with their results. the agility nerf makes no sense to me though

dusky thicket
#

i mean i done a bunch of tests with utah vs stego

sinful cove
#

i dont think the agility nerf was exactly intentional though, since all dinos have the same affects including small tiers who shouldnt get it as badly

dusky thicket
#

and u can just hold e and alt and spam rmb

#

u will catch the utah in air, and with the new gravity the stego can jsut turn towrad the smallest hill adn it will kill you. its ridiculous

sinful cove
#

maybe the devs have some super secret strategy they want people to use lol who knows how they tested it

#

if utah got better agility back and trees/rocks actually stopped attacks plus the standing in water exploit i think it would be fine

#

im like 90% sure the bleed level isnt working as intended

#

same with the weird shit they did with maneuverability

#

utah is only a bit more agile than carno it feels like, smalls like utah, dryo, hypsi etc should be much more agile than the guys lugging around over a ton of weight

dusky thicket
sinful cove
#

especially ones who go so fast and have to handle the weight in full speed turns and braking

dusky thicket
dusky thicket
sinful cove
#

carno should be an ambusher, rush in, stun/kill smalls with a surprise attack and if it messes up then oof for it. at least in the majority of situations

#

it has no real need to be so agile flailing around with alt bite too

meager ice
#

sheesh

dusky thicket
sinful cove
#

utah packs can still kill stegos its just hard, which it should be, but trees and water shouldnt be quite as exploitable as it is rn

#

trees and water make things super brainless

meager ice
#

wait I thought it said the devs only tested vs stego, mb

sinful cove
#

like stand in 3 fee tof water and be immune to pounce

#

if a stego know show to time his attacks to kill a dismounting utah then its fine but standing in a puddle and becoming immune is dumb lol

dusky thicket
dusky thicket
dusky thicket
meager ice
#

IMO stego is easiest target for Utah

#

other than smaller creatures

sinful cove
#

it seems to be consistently

dusky thicket
winged sierra
meager ice
#

I win more against stegos than I do carnos and teno combined

sinful cove
#

last patch it was soloable, now carnos are almost as agile as utah so stego remains easiest aside from the useless dryo ai

winged sierra
#

if you'd seen how many complaints we get about utah being useless against stego lol

meager ice
#

Stego can only swing in one direction, which is also where it is looking

dusky thicket
#

it takes 55 head bites to kill a stego and, its "un pounceable" if it knows what to do even if u are a full pack.

meager ice
#

If you see it is looking a different direction, you can pounce it. If it’s up against a tree, that is another story

winged sierra
#

yep the water thing sucks

sinful cove
#

utah packs are supposed to fight large slow animals. if a stego is aiming to kill a dismounting utah then it leaves it open to new slots. the water and trees are the only issue

#

while utahs should still be knockable by trees, the hitboxes of the trees should halt swings rather than them going through

meager ice
#

A stego attacking a dismounting Utah leaves it’s side open to two Utah’s to pounce

dusky thicket
sinful cove
#

sacrifices may be needed, but utah is a fast growing dino and youll probably have a pack to return to for protection

meager ice
#

Think about it differently, it either has to buck, or receive 3 full Utah pounces

#

If it bucks, the Utah’s can exit safely

dusky thicket
#

so when the bucking animation stops the stego will immediately swing

meager ice
#

I’ve never seen this before

dusky thicket
#

yeah we have done a bunch of test on this on a private test server

meager ice
#

But it does sound unintended if it’s an animation cancel

dusky thicket
#

yeah! thats what i mean, the devs can't have tested this properly

#

they just implemented a further dismount with no cool down and thought it would be fine

meager ice
#

Well then it will probably be fixed sometime soon, if the devs know about it

dusky thicket
meager ice
#

They are usually pretty good about fixing Utah pounce issues

dusky thicket
meager ice
#

probably update 4 or 4.5 if not right away

winged sierra
primal dove
dusky thicket
winged sierra
#

a bug will likely not be seen nor fixed unless it's reported in there

dusky thicket
primal dove
#

dismount change

#

at least faster

#

but im scared about the range u can hit so many obstacles in ur way

winged sierra
dusky thicket
primal dove
#

yea

#

u teleport like 10m away from the stego in 1 frame so it is legit impossible to hit u

dusky thicket
primal dove
#

yea it´s actually in 1 frame

#

watched it in 0.25

#

absolutely no chance to get hit

wide cosmos
#

Smart stego could turn towards water or cliff and that would be the end of utah

#

They already do that

#

Also if there's even a small incline you would dismount within a range of a swipe

#

Theres just so many ways to counter pounce as a stego

#

Only hope for the Utah pack is that steggo is a bad player

#

And even then it's monumental task to bring it down

thin mantle
#

Just…… idk, maybe they should think about inflating the stats in some way, because that’s just insane.

#

For reference, a boxer can punch with the force of 776 lbs

winged sierra
#

what math did you do?

thin mantle
#

The biteforce exerted from a Utah rn is 55n of force, if you translate that into lbs of pressure you get 12

winged sierra
#

ingame newtons are not equivalent to real life newtons

thin mantle
#

???

winged sierra
#

they're just a measurement of damage, the N can be replaced with any other letter

golden coral
#

Didn't they remove the N for that reason too?

thin mantle
#

Oh ok, god that notation has been confusing me for ages

winged sierra
thin mantle
golden coral
#

Maybe I'm wrong there.. just for some reason thought they did change

thin mantle
#

Man I wish I noticed that before

#

Because deino having a 500n biteforce has been the most confusing paradox rn

tacit oriole
#

The choice of measurement has been bashed ad-nauseam, it's just damage

#

You can imagine it stands for something else if it makes you feel better 😋

gentle vault
#

Is it just me or is Utah suddenly way too slow when running? Did everything get this bad of a speed nerf?

winged sierra
#

there was a global speed nerf yes

spare badger
#

But it's the same in comparison to everything else

tacit oriole
#

Which is still a net nerf for something designed to juke, since carno didn't also get a turnspeed and reaction time nerf

#

Plus everything else Utah is meant to dodge - stego/teno tails especially

winged sierra
#

iirc inertia is also not as it should be, which plays into things

thin mantle
flint cape
#

Need an apex predator in game.

winged sierra
#

an apex this early would be disastrous to the ecosystem

spare badger
#

Even stego and deino are kicking things up, with the lack of good competition. Adding an apex would make it way worse. Working up the size ranks is much better.

flint cape
#

Ok if not apex, can we get a step up. Good Stego and Teno players are pretty bad for the current ecosystem

winged sierra
#

tenos are kept in check easily by 2/3 utahs, stegos can just be avoided for now (or taken out with 7/8 utahs). We'll get a step up eventually

thin mantle
flint cape
#

Aren’t Sucho’s mainly fish 🐠 eaters?

spare badger
#

They are, but can still pose a threat to all creatures currently in the game. They will prey on sub deinos, and really anything that gets in a certain proximity of the water.

tacit oriole
#

Deino is in a good place now imo

#

Scary af in the water, nearly trivial far inland

#

The map is pretty poor for them until U4 though

#

And they eat WAY too much, even with the 5x bonus for fish

#

Btw @dark current deino vs stego is still sort-of viable if you are good enough and use the lunge stun effectively, but it's not guaranteed like it used to be (and stego needs to wallow if it wins)

#

And stego has full authority over the engagement, unlike before where nobody could run

#

I suspect we need to wait for fractures to really see how they match up

#

If there weren't so many stegos now it wouldn't be as much of an issue

#

I personally think stego needs an even higher headshot multiplier

#

At least until it has a decent land-based predator

#

I'd also like to see stego get a longer cool down on tailswipe when it connects

#

So you basically have to jerk your thago out of someone after you impale them with it over maybe 0.75s

#

Give the target a small stun for the duration too, so it doesn't look too stupid

dark current
#

Ive been experimenting in my server with friends and overall Stego wins in every 1v1 scenario

#

Even with repositioning altbite the tailjab just does too much while Stego tanks all the headbites.

tacit oriole
#

You really gotta get up inside them so stego hits your tail

dark current
#

If I get inside them then I only do the body dmg

tacit oriole
#

And bite/alt bite spam

#

Up beside them, not straight in from behind like you could before

dark current
#

I use the bite/alt spam to get effectively fast but still failed

#

I need to test the stunlock mechanic

tacit oriole
#

I can show you on a private server in a couple of hours if you want to practice a bit

#

A key bit though is you don't want to over-commit. If the stego stops swinging to move forward you need to turn around and leave

#

Don't try and chase

#

Then you need to hope they go for a wallow somewhere you can finish them off, noting that now you can't smell bleeding crocs in water

#

Unless they touch the bottom

#

And you need to make sure you get to their head with your lunge, not pull up short on their body

#

If you do it right it's 6 bites, while they need 7 swings to your body (though you may bleed out with less, especially if you are hungry and can't rest on the bank)

dark current
#

Mind if I add you. I am at work atm. Will be available for testing in 10ish hours

#

I have a private server so we get to test this throughout.

tacit oriole
#

Yup, sure. 10 hours is perfect

thin mantle
spare badger
#

That is true

brittle bronze
sand yoke
#

not sure if it was intended or not but the new AI spawn system where there is FAR less fish available for Pteras is a good thing, being a ptera main myself its nice to see a more viable gameplay element having to track your targets wait for a fight to happen unless you attack yourself and finish off the target, ptera was WAY to easy when there was a fish spawn every 10 meters

woven depot
#

Personally I disagree, it feels near impossible to find an fish, and with how few and far between any corpses (or fights) you find you're far too liable to starve to death.

sand yoke
#

hunt?

#

pteras can kill dryos very easy, as well as juvies on most species

#

just now i was close to starving so i followed a carno pack, whils everyone was in the confusion of battle i was able to start scavaging one of the corpses

#

very very viable

woven depot
#

Heck I only just started playing and I've never even seen a singel ish

sand yoke
#

i can do a run through with you if you like?

#

can show you some stuff

woven depot
sand yoke
#

more than happy to show you 🙂

woven depot
#

also for people unfamiliar with Ptera attacking they're going to absolutely struggle in fighting other creatures, especially juvies and smaller creatures that are closer to the ground, where a novice Ptera is more likely to crash and then get killed themselves by being vulnerable

sand yoke
#

again happy to show you

#

playing ptera is not hard if you know how

woven depot
#

and again personally I've not often enough come across enough scenarios to make it feel like even if I was good at it, to see hunting viable

sand yoke
#

ok, well just some feedback i wanted to drop in anyways, All dinos have a steep learning curve to learn and ptera before felt way to "chill" basically just an airborne fisher that could never die

#

so my feedback is if you need to change hings by increasing "some" fish spawns coolio but please consider making ptera a challenge

woven depot
#

Still at the current rate fishing is more than just "less viable" but next to impossible with what I've encountered

sand yoke
#

same as a utah, carno, tenno etc

#

i found 4 fish 10 mins ago near center and another whole school up near northern falls

woven depot
#

So far I have found 0 and other ptera's I've encountered in game have had pretty much (if not the same) experiences

sand yoke
#

ok some pointers then, fly over the plains or north while sniffing, you can spot dryos and dinos way easier than anything else and swoop attack them, general rule of thumb anything bigger than a juvie that is not a Utah is easy food, dont atatck utahs unless they are hatchlings or Tennos as they can both jump

#

if you go to high pvp zones you can find food easy with corpses, especially with croc baits

#

what else, another strat that i play is flying high looking for battles

#

odds are after a fight someone is very injured and very easy to finish off, especially if they have bleed

#

if your on the ground use Alt Bite, will 1 shot most juvies

#

another strat i use is to kill something eat till i am full then put baits down

#

pieces of meat

safe anchor
#

Just because you are in water shouldn’t make it so you are 100% safe. Steggo can only use its tail attack in shallow water. In deep water it is forced to swim and then pretty much a free kill for the deino.

sand yoke
#

when you drop meat land in trees, drop takeoffs are silent and you can easily get a bite in, i usually do a swoop bite and pretend to crash, when they come bite me i Alt bite and finish em then just go heal the bleed

#

hope that helps @woven depot

flint cape
#

Thoughts on Teno being a little overturned?

tacit oriole
#

Absolutely is

#

It was balanced before the patch and both carno and Utah got nerfed hard while teno got a pass

#

The weird part is the very first patch it actually DID get nerfed - slam went from 400 to 300, kick went from 300 to 225 - but then one of the quick fixes after that rolled it back

#

I suspect it was SUPPOSED to get nerfed but accidentally got a pass - and they have committed to pushing forward to U4 instead of latching the current version any further

flint cape
#

What is the duration on the stun?

tacit oriole
#

3s and you are immune for 7.5s in total

#

So you can't be permastunned

wild cove
#

Tbh, finding Dryo AI isn't that difficult. You just have to know where to look. There's 3 spots I know of that always have an overpopulation of them that easily get me to full adult. Only thing is they're in the less player populated areas of the map.

hollow canyon
#

In my experience not a single spot is actually reliable and they all might spawn Dryos or might not spawn any Dryos. It seems pretty random to me based on some of the spots where I've noticed them spawning.

wide cosmos
hollow canyon
#

I think I know which area you have in mind - the one by the swamp/somewhat close to the human facilities?

wide cosmos
#

In the fields by the maps border, most populated AI spot. I checked with admin tools

storm summit
#

I’m pretty well aware of all of the areas where AI spawn and yet since the last update each play session is an inevitable end in starvation. It’s only been since the latest patch, so I’ve a mind to think it’s in some way due to preparations for the diet system update that will likely address the matters I’ve expressed concern for in relation to this topic.

wide cosmos
#

Problem is bodies don't give enough food. Adult dryo barely gives 20% food for adult Utah

#

Adult carno eats adult dryo in 2 bites for about 10% hunger

#

It has to be toned down, you have to be constantly Killin someone or something or you'll starve

wild cove
#

Forest outside swamp has dryos, as well as a specific place in the hills near north spawn, and the fields between north river and south pond, and then there are dryo spawns always getting stuck in the north river itself

tender sundial
#

.quest

alpine plover
#

Tbh the cry reaction was kind of unneeded lol

hollow canyon
#

Most definitely, it's not like playing herbivores was harder in the first place. They were easier to grow from the get-go and the last update has only magnified that difference. Hopefully this is just a temporary situation that diets can fix but I'm still having my doubts.

primal dove
#

only trolling in this section

dawn falcon
#

Bleed is bugged

#

People need to realize that

#

Bite is also for maintaining the need

#

Bleed

#

It shouldn’t be used as an actual weapon against a large creature

sinful cove
#

Why drastically nerf the stun from the obvious stun attack?

#

If anything the kick would knockover and the tail would stay as a longer stun if they were to be changed

#

The whole thing just seems like a hard nerf anyway

spare badger
#

@raven egret the kick is usually used as a more offensive stun tool, where the teno runs toward a carno and uses the kick while turning. This cannot be done with the slam, and I think the kick does bleed to (may have been changed) so the kick is fine as it is

sinful cove
#

The whole appeal of the tail slam is that it is a big fat stun

spare badger
#

Granted, it's not used as much as tail slam, but is has an important use it tenos kit

sinful cove
#

Thats like removing bleed from pounce or something

dawn falcon
#

Raw damage pounce flashbacks

raven egret
#

But the point is that those are two attacks that function the same pretty much, except with different stats. With those changes, you can use your kick to do a long lasting stun and then smack your tail onto the oponent. Rn all people do is spam tail.

raven egret
spare badger
#

But it's already like that

#

Tail slam stun is kinda the point of the slam

#

The kick is for hitting fast opponents
I use it when fighting carnos

#

They do not function the same

#

The mobility of the kick is what makes it useful
The tail slam stops all movement

sinful cove
#

Thats like of they brought in rex without fracture. The fracture is such a big part of its bite, it would feel stupid without it, just like teno would feel stupid without its big fat concussion tail slam

#

Why would a slam from such a big slab of muscle and bone only tip a utah over

#

Its a downward strike

spare badger
#

They literally don't function the same
The kick is very useful at catching carno attacks, stunning them, and then hitting the tail slam

But for other situations, like when you want to kill Utah's or keep distance form carnos, you face your tail towards them, so if you slam a carno coming at you it is also stunned

I imagine fighting cerato would require use of the tail slam stun over the kick

#

The slam and kick are different enough and are used in different situations, so there is no need for a change.

sinful cove
#

The only thing in that suggestion that is fine really is the fact that being hit on your tail shouldn’t stun you, and the same should go for carno charge and any other physical stun attack

spare badger
#

That is fair
Body and headshots sure
But not the tail

sinful cove
#

Headshots from stuns should give head fracture. Being slammed in the face with a huge tail or rammed by a 1800kg dino shouldn’t just be shrugged off

gentle vault
#

Maybe it could have a daze effect

sinful cove
#

What ever comes with head fracture yeah

#

Daze, hearing impairment, bite reduction etc

#

Guess it would depend on the severity

spare badger
#

Ye

#

Think that's already confirmed to happen

#

Teno slam should do fracture damage
Carno headbutt
Pachy's existence
And 100% stego should destroy your bones

#

Flashback to that poor Allo with a hole in his hip

sinful cove
#

Stego doesnt need huge fracture since his whole thing is bleed and impaling imo, maybe only in certain areas otherwise it should be a bit below average

#

Stego gutting you and also breaking your bones easily sounds a bit overkill lol

wide cosmos
#

Makes sense for steggo to cause bleed rather than fractures, once anky gets added its gonna be all fractures

sinful cove
#

Stego tail could cause fractures in headshots of animals it doesnt oneshot like apexes but fracture def shouldnt be a core part of its playstyle

#

Anky and rex should be the top tier fracture dealers, followed by deino and pachyrhino imo

spare badger
#

True

#

But some fracture at least
Those spike aren't gonna stop if they hit a bone

sinful cove
#

Some fractures of course lol

#

Dont think itd do much since anything getting hit enough in one area to stack them up would probably be dead before that

spare badger
#

Yea
We would need like Allo sized up creatures before stego fracture would be of any use

cedar shore
#

@quasi grove Yeah this honestly bothers me, this is only due to the health = weight change since health increased linear with growth :/

quasi grove
#

yeah the weight gain rate of juvies and health being made equal to weight definitely emphasized that odd math going on

cedar shore
#

Its not some really odd math, its just that weight is exponental with grows while health WAS linear

#

its such a bad balance decicion and only makes juvis less viable

dawn falcon
#

I mean really you can adjust the amount of weight gained over a period of time

#

Weight = HP has nothing to do with Weight being gained over time or being linear

#

But overall adjusting the amount of weight gained over time to a proper amount of be beneficial

fathom obsidian
#

@summer cave bleed is currently not working as intended and doing less damage as a result (and from what i remember its also not consistent), gotta wait for the finals number after the fix to come to conclusions, so im neutral about it for now

tacit oriole
#

I hate the sheer quantity of food that carnivores need now

#

You need to eat your own bodyweight every 45 minutes

#

That's 42 kg/min for a carno

sinful cove
#

Carno should only need like 20% of its body weight to fill honestly

#

Pretty wack its like meat is styrofoam density rn

dawn falcon
#

I wish food what determined by weight properly

tacit oriole
#

The whole 3x bonus for swallowing prey whole thing is stupid too

#

Such a janky way to make small prey relevant

dawn falcon
#

Like a Carno should be giving you almost 1.8 tons of meat, and if you’re a Utah, you should be eating 20% of your weight atleast

#

4 Utah’s pretty much eat an entire Carno body from what I’ve seen

tacit oriole
#

Correct

#

If they are hungry

meager ice
#

I’ve been able to eat like 4 corpses from Utah to sub carno as a very hungry Utah before

dawn falcon
#

If it were 20%, that that would mean 4 Utah’s would eat 360kg of the body

tacit oriole
#

An adult Utah can eat 500kg of food in a single sitting

#

Carno nearly 2 ton

#

It's so wack

dawn falcon
#

Now

#

A stego body..

#

That should be like a dead elephant in the savanna

#

A fucking thanksgiving feast

tacit oriole
#

3 carnos can finish it off lol

dawn falcon
#

That should not happen whatsoever

#

3 carnos should eat 1080kg of the body

#

Not

#

3 1.8 ton carnivores consuming a 6 ton body

tacit oriole
#

Preaching to the converted my friend

alpine plover
#

No, thats what makes it too good.

#

Tenonto is easy because of how powerul it's tail slam is.

#

Do you think it's a good idea to have the highest dmg output on an attack that has also the highest range and CC?

#

and it's also a fast spammable? Please think about it.

#

People needs to stop this bias and maining bias, because it hurts the game. I enjoy Tenonto and I don't want it to be bad, but if it's this good and forgiving, others are suffering for no reason.

#

Tenonto is the easiest playable in terms of combat. It can be still fun if you need to use a minimal amount of your brain to destroy carnos and utahs.

ocean wagon
#

Me personally I don’t think the tail slam is too OP. it should do stun damage. Imagine getting cracked in your head by a base ball bat

alpine plover
#

Yeah, but it's a game. Then Imagine a Utah pounceing on your side and slashing and biting you with 10 cm claws. 3 second of that pounce and a tenonto would be too wounded to fight for long.

#

You can't base balance only on realism.

ocean wagon
#

If I’m not mistaken, tenos tail is essentially the same size as a utah

alpine plover
#

Okay, the point?

ocean wagon
#

Point being, if that shit comes crashing down on you as a Utah, it should be devastating

alpine plover
#

You missing the point of a common balance issue. if an Attack is strong/high-range/fast/have CC, then it's simply broken. Take just ONE, just one out of it, and it's good. If an attack has all the good traits an attack can have, then it sure as hell won't be balanced.

#

The only downside of tail slam that you can't do while moving, however it's sure as hell not enough to midigate the extreme amount of positives it has

ocean wagon
#

Teno is meant to be a brawler in game, it’s meant to take on carnivores it’s size or smaller

alpine plover
#

Hypno said what exactly a teno should be. It should win against one Utah, it should be somewhat Equal against 2 Utah, and it should die from 3 utah, if the utahs are not bad. Also, it should be able to take on a Carno, but not completely destroy it. Again, having an attack that's spammable and that can put you in stun and be dead because it's powerful enough and fast enough to kill you in a stunlock, thats just bad.

dawn falcon
#

I’d say just slow down the tailslam a bit, just enough to where it can’t put you in a permanent stun lock.

alpine plover
#

That's what I'm saying, just take out one of it's positives and it's not broken anymore lol.

dawn falcon
#

Realistically a creature of such mass wouldn’t have an easy time lifting that tail up

alpine plover
#

Take out either the speed, the dmg

dawn falcon
#

Especially that stupid bump under it

ocean wagon
dawn falcon
#

Doesn’t justify the fact it’s tailslam can put a carno in a permanent stun lock

alpine plover
#

Where did I mention that Teno should be an easy meal? Don't give words into my mouth. You can knock Utah's down with teno's tail attack because it's a spammable and stamina cheap attack. Tenonto would be still very much viable if the tail slam would be nerfed a bit.

ocean wagon
#

You’re arguing skill at this point

dawn falcon
#

Ryk has a point. It’s just that good in every way possible. Speed? Hell yeah. Damage? We got that too. Stamina usage? God fuck you, this mans an athletic bastard.

alpine plover
#

Billy, I'm sorry. If these points can't make you re-think the situation, idk what to tell you. Your opinion is yours I guess, mine is mine.

dawn falcon
#

1.8 tons with a giant bump under the tail and somehow it dominates in all three categories

#

Game design-wise, it’s mechanically flawed because you’re punished for one little mistake.

alpine plover
#

Also, do you think skill doesn't have to do with balance?

ocean wagon
#

Coming from someone who plays Utah the most in evrima, whenever my friends and I hunt a teno their tailslam isn’t what concerns us the most about it.

dawn falcon
#

That’s for a Utah though

#

Not a carno

alpine plover
#

Skill absolutely have to do with balance. You can never balance around the game for professionals or extremely bad players. You need to balance around the average. This should be always the case in any game, unless it's meant to played by professionals only.

dawn falcon
#

Carnos suffer substantially worse then a Utah with the tail slam. Utah’s have a small hitbox whereas a carno is a fucking target

alpine plover
#

Do I mind if a Utah gets oneshotted because it got catched by a tail-slam? No, if it's actually balanced properly. How is a strong/cc/fast/high ranged attack is balanced to oneshot anything that is in the same "ring"?

ocean wagon
#

I’m talking about Utah’s now, I’ll get to carno in a second. However what’s a problem FOR YOU during a teno hunt can differ from what others find to be challenging. Me personally, i don’t find hard to bait out a teno slam and hit a head bite on it. What concerns me the most in a teno fight is their round house kicks

dawn falcon
#

But again, a Utah doesn’t get stunlocked anymore so it’s therefore irrelevant to the conversation. I’m talking about Carno, as I’ve always been.

#

Actually

#

Fuck it

#

I’m talking about anything that gets stun locked

#

Teno can put you in a permanent stun lock if it doesn’t one shot you

ocean wagon
#

Wha- I was talking to ryk about Utah’s because they’re the one who brought it up

dawn falcon
#

Oh was he

#

Well that’s my bad

ocean wagon
dawn falcon
#

I see

ocean wagon
#

Now since you want to talk about carno, carno is a light weight carnivore that under most situations is not supposed to hunting a teno which is a brawler herbivore. Carno should only hunt a teno if the teno IS NOT a full grown adult or if the carno is able to land an ambush charge on the teno

#

Other than that, you as a carno who especializes in speed and hit-run hunting, should stay away from the angry teno that is built as a brawler to take on carnivores in carnos size range or smaller

#

Please, know your niche as a carno and stick to it, or you might just get a tail slammed on your head

sinful cove
#

Ptera can pretty much glide across the whole map ez

ocean wagon
#

Please leave Petra stam as is

sinful cove
#

You barely lose anything if you die and all you need to do is land on some high rocks where you wont get killed by 90% of the roster

#

It doesnt need to be more untouchable than it is

ocean wagon
#

^

sinful cove
#

If a total dumbass like myself can learn to manage flight stam as ptera in an hour then it aint lacking anything lmao

vale harness
# dawn falcon Ryk has a point. It’s just that good in every way possible. Speed? Hell yeah. Da...

did you just say teno is fast and has good stam? xD you haven't played teno have you. also, a teno can not stun lock a carno to death. and even if it could, carno can do the same thing back. back to speed and stam. teno is 40.5 kmn/h slower than utah, carno, ptera, and dryo. it is the slowest mid tier. carnos stam is 1 minute tenos is 1:30 minutes, it can't run you down. and even if it did. it would have no stam left to kill you. bite for teno is useless. which means all of its attacks that are could damage an opponent take stam. i mean for god sake i killed a teno solo as a utah after the nerf. its not hard to dodge a slam. i think this confirms that people don't actually play the isle, they just come to discord and bitch about how they're the victem. carnos is not over tuned, utah is not overtuned, deinos isn't over tuned, or stego, or teno, or dryo.

dawn falcon
# vale harness did you just say teno is fast and has good stam? xD you haven't played teno have...

First off, fuck you, you’re a bitch. Second off, for a supposed “pro” teno player, you’re quite the amateur, sorry.
Carno can get stun locked SO easily by a teno. You literally just need to slam the head and continue slamming the head until the shithead dies and if you’re lucky, the game will lag and the hitbox will “miss” and you can run the hell away. Also, we were talking about the tailslams speed, not it’s overall speed, same with the stamina. It doesn’t drain as much as it should for a 1.6 ton herbivore.
Imagine dying to a solo Utah, lol. Must’ve been a bad Teno, something you seem to be proving about yourself, but I won’t assume anything.
And hun, this pretty much proves that people looking to make a claim that “somethings useless” or shitty (like you keep saying in balance feedback about teno) is mainly due to how bad of a player you are. Get used to the changes. You can’t endurance hunt a carno like you used to, and makes you use your stamina the way it’s intended: wisely. Omg, shocker huh?
You’re right, none of them are overtuned minus teno a bit.
Now..
Bite is pretty useful for smalls like Utah but not for a carno.

sinful cove
dawn falcon
#

Had to put em in his place 😁

vale harness
# dawn falcon First off, fuck you, you’re a bitch. Second off, for a supposed “pro” teno playe...

rickardo goes hard. totally shattered my dreams of being a pro isle player 😦 anyway, after the nerfs teno kills a carno in 1 kick and 4 slams to the head. 5 hits total. carno kiills teno in 6 head shots or 5 can't member. so i'd call that pretty fair. before in update 3.5 you could maybe say that teno could stun lock a carno, but to say that it still can is you just not pressing W on your key board after getting hit. really appreciate the fact that you came so hard tho, cursed me off twice in the first sentence

vagrant mural
dawn falcon
vagrant mural
#

Both of you are dicks rn tbh

#

Not even the entertaining kind either

vale harness
#

thats fair

#

i was a dick

dawn falcon
#

What can I say. Trying to be a dick to me doesn’t mean I’ll say “okay I’m sorry to aggravate you”

#

But yeah I can say I came off a bit vash

vale harness
dawn falcon
#

I apologize

dawn falcon
#

Just slow down the tailslam a tad bit

#

Not too slow to where Carno can just say “fuck you. And thanks for the tickle”

#

And face tank you

vagrant mural
#

The problem that everyone has and probably always will with teno is that it stuns, while stuns make for a unique kit, I have yet to meet 1 person that actually likes stuns

dawn falcon
#

It just needs to be slowed down a bit to where it’s not a permanent chain gun stun lock where you can’t move and get dished out a ton of damage

#

But still fast to where Carno can’t face tank it

vale harness
#

wheres the line that you want tho, how long in between each tail slam, you can slam a carno 3 times in 3 seconds so what would you say is balance

dawn falcon
#

I’d say 3 tail slams in either 3.5 - 4 seconds.

#

Like i said, not too slow but not too fast

vale harness
#

also, i like stun, remember back when evrima first came out and teno didnt have stun, got killed by a half a utah.

#

thats fair

#

i mean its a strong attack, but i find it fair cause it takes 10% of tenos stam

vagrant mural
#

Stuns make teno viable ye, but that’s exactly the problem, you nerf stuns to give the enemy gamer more freedom and you directly handicap teno, you buff the stuns too much and the game plays itself for you overwatch style, I personally don’t mind where tailslam is currently, but I don’t really play or fuck with tenos

vale harness
#

yea, i think it's pretty balanced, but i main teno so i'm not the first person you should listen too. it's not too hard to bait out 1, and if you don't you get punished

primal dove
#

same goes for carno btw

#

played carno yesterday

#

u have no chance against a teno if u can´t ram it

#

carno is the cc assassin rn, hiding in the woods waiting for the perfect oppurtinity ramming down it´s prey item and killing it in no time

hollow canyon
#

Tenonto can't reliably take out a Carno in a stunlock but it does happen at times. In my experience - if you land the kick on Carno's head you will need only 3 additional tailslams to kill that Carno. I've been sometimes able to take out a Carno from 100 to 0 during that one stun but not always. I'm genuinely confused as to what the reason for that is. On certain occasions I lacked one last tailslam to take the Carno out, on others it just fell apart like a house of cards hit by a baseball bat. I also don't think it's true that a Carno can take down a Tenonto within a single instance of CC - you will be at least one bite(and more likely at least two bites short off killing it - if you decide to leave it at one bite off from the death you will get hit by its CC before you disengage) Having said that, I'm genuinely not a fan of animals of their size taking out each other in a single combo and I think it makes all around for very poor gameplay.

I'd also argue that it's not the stuns that are the issue in this match up, it's more so the damage output of the Tenonto. It's the one creature that didn't see a damage nerf to its attacks with the weight-change update making it relatively better than most playables in its class. The issue is that nerfing the damage output of this animal could very easily make it unplayable so I'd still probably wait for update 4 to release to see how it fares in the new conditions before doing anything about Tenonto. As it is I'd argue it's still(or even more so) the best bang-for-buck animal in the game. One that you can grow completely effortlessly(don't even need to eat until half-way through your growth) and one that still provides an enormous potential in the PvP. Whenever I feel like afk growing something that I will throw at the first player I see just to do some deathmatch-style PvP - I go for Tenonto because there's just no better choice.

calm ibex
#

The whole balance feedback can be summed up in "please buff my animal because x happened and it must be the games fault, not my own experience or skill!"

primal dove
#

there is a certain threshhold where if smth is so badly nerfed that it isnt even viable with great skill

#

Bro wtf these 4 tenos and 2 stegos killed your utah? You can pounce them! So cringe, noob.

tacit oriole
hollow canyon
#

I was speaking specifically about headshots - those deal more than 1500dmg combined. They were taking out a Carno from 100 to 0 even before the hp nerf.

tacit oriole
#

Headshot is 1.5x damage

hollow canyon
#

Yea, it is

#

3 headshots from the tailslam and one from kick deal over 2k dmg

tacit oriole
#

So 1500 x1.5 is 2250

#

Carno has 1800

hollow canyon
#

Yea, I'm just clarifying that I was speaking about headshots

#

not the hits on the torso

tacit oriole
#

3 tailslams can kill a carno if they are headshots now, don't even need the kick

#

Oh, well it must have been already missing health in that case

hollow canyon
#

In general Tenonto probably deals too much damage but at the same time it's difficult to nerf it because its damage output is on the skills that cost stamina. Idk what to do with it to put it in its correct place as any changes might make it really bad too.

tacit oriole
#

I switched off stego because they are so OP now

#

"get gud scrub" is not a valid argument when your main got buffed

calm ibex
#

i'm not doubting that, but the feedback in general would greatly benefit from posting actual proof such as clips to get the point across, thats good feedback, the rest not so much. there are way too many people who just repeat what they hear others say without questioning the source

modest carbon
#

Tenonto doesn't need a nerf to it's tailslam it's combat it already entirely stamina based and it runs out of stam if there are 2 carnos or more

hollow canyon
#

I mean... it would be pretty absurd if Tenonto was capable of taking on 2 Carnos

modest carbon
#

Yeah

#

You could probably take on 2 very bad carnos

hollow canyon
#

Which while it can't really do, it can at times drop one of them down in a 1v2

modest carbon
#

Yeah

hollow canyon
#

I've survived encounters with multiple but they had typically fought something before and I probably would've died if they were aware of just how low my hp was when I decided to walk away.

modest carbon
#

It's more defensive animal now that running speeds and stamina costs have been nerfed

#

Carnos biggest advantage over teno is it's ram

#

If you headslam it you just bite it's head during the stun and boom

hollow canyon
#

It's not so much advantage, it's just what it has to use if it wants to have a shot at winning that fight at all rn.

modest carbon
#

Yeah

#

It's most effective power move, per say.

primal dove
#

teno shouldn´t really kill but be able to put you in a life dangerous situation if you dare to take the risk after it stunned you

ocean wagon
#

Which in most cases it does against carno

#

If the carno decides to keep trying to attack the teno, it should die

primal dove
#

absolutely

thin mantle
#

@tacit oriole I was wondering why you think that grazing animals should dehydrate faster? Because a lot of grazing animals are able to satiate at least a portion of their hydration needs by eating grass alone irl

spare badger
#

I feel like teno can't run anywhere anymore, its Stam drain when running is so high now that I feel like if I run I will have no st to defend myself, but I guess that makes it so teno can't hunt carno now?

primal dove
#

yea think so

tacit oriole
#

The hydration from water in the food itself isn't enough for all the digestion and bacteria and stuff

thin mantle
#

I’ve never heard that grazing increases dehydration, especially considering how much moisture grass contains

hallow spire
#

@barren oracle TI_Wheeze

barren oracle
primal dove
thin mantle
#

If you can metabolize it

primal dove
#

lot of animals do that if i start thinking about it

#

even my grandmas cat (which sadly died half a year ago) sometimes ate grass

tacit oriole
thin mantle
thin mantle
primal dove
#

i mean water is legit in grass and in every other plant

thin mantle
primal dove
#

if they wouldn´t need water it would fuck up photosynthesis

tacit oriole
#

Regardless, the reason I suggested it was around balance, not to be more realistic

#

Food bushes are a huge timesink for big herbivores, and grazing frees up much of that

#

it seems only reasonable to need to do more drinking as a result

thin mantle
primal dove
#

but it depends your body takes water and energy to consume/digest the liquid you take so for example eating snow is dumb bc it gives u so little water that the amount of water ur body needs to consume/melt the snow is higher so u basically lose water by eating snow. Does what i just wrote even make sense?

thin mantle
#

If you were to need more water then grazing would have no purpose

tacit oriole
#

Stego would disagree

thin mantle
tacit oriole
#

As a stego I would still graze 90% of the time even if it cost water

#

food bushes give like 5% food, it often takes more time to find and run to them than you get out of them

thin mantle
tacit oriole
#

I would still graze as stego with the changes I proposed

#

grazing is meant to be a last resort, not a staple food source

vagrant mural
#

honestly grazing currently is more of a situational tool you use occasionally to move while not losing hunger, if you deny the fact you're usually moving long distance when you use grazing, sure, maybe dehydration would work, but like why?

#

I really don't even run into many people who actively graze anyway

thin mantle
tacit oriole
thin mantle
tacit oriole
#

as long as you are happy being low on food it is a perfectly fine way to live

thin mantle
#

It takes way longer than that

tacit oriole
#

and there are grazing spots everywhere

vagrant mural
#

I never usually get that low on hunger so I wouldn't know

#

like the only time I really graze is midfight to stall for time

tacit oriole
#

I rarely bother with foodbushes even as a teno, when you need max 2 to fill you and run twice as fast

#

come diets grazing will go back to being a last resort anyway, so I'm not really that concerned

vagrant mural
#

yeah

thin mantle
tacit oriole
#

It's ok not to agree, especially with significant balance changes. Even with the bleed debuff from low food I can't accept that grazing isn't just overpowered atm

#

but hey maybe I'm just playing the game wrong 🤷‍♂️

tacit oriole
# thin mantle No it doesn’t

Just tested and my bad - it's 30s from 0, so slower than a bush. Still maintain it's too much of a safety blanket for herbivores though

thin mantle
#

Considering they can physically metabolize the ground they stand on it kinda makes sense that safety blanket exists

tacit oriole
#

Fair point. I guess with the new crazy food requirements for carnivores the difference is even more stark

thin mantle
#

Like a rex should give you more stress than a ptera when growing

tacit oriole
#

Speaking of which, someone needs to ask for the growth curves to get fixed. The whole gaining 1/4 of your weight in the last 10% thing is a bit silly

#

especially when you get the full grown model at like 1/3rd your final weight

#

Oh and btw you were right about water from food for herbivores - apparently some can gain up to 90% of their daily water requirements from sappy greens

barren oracle
#

oh my goodness

#

ive had the time of my life

#

playing hypsi

tacit oriole
#

tell me you are one of those utah baiting hypsi

#

it is just stupid fun

barren oracle
#

im one of the hey there carnivore come to this convenient bush with no steg at all hypsis

#

add a diet that either gives it different spits or a diet that lowers food drain while spitting and you have the perfect creature

tacit oriole
#

lol I got mobbed by hypsi as a half-grown utah, it was too funny to get mad at

tacit oriole
orchid depot
#

oh wait the convo is already over
my bad

thin mantle
thin mantle
tacit oriole
#

hahah spit on an merc gun and it rusts up and jams

#

that would be funny as

thin mantle
tacit oriole
#

It's probably a good thing I'm not in charge of a game like TI, I would do something like that every april fools

thin mantle
#

Make it long range too, lil rat weasel better snipe the blades off a chopper

thin mantle
tacit oriole
thin mantle
golden coral
#

@thin mantle@tacit orioleYou can't find a gun/run out of ammo as merc? Just grab the nearest hypsi, feed it some interesting plants and there you go!

thin mantle
tacit oriole
thin mantle
#

Pull the tail feathers with your hypsi drawn and enjoy the terrified expression of anything unfortunate to be in range

tacit oriole
slim dragon
#

Good luck handling a 20 kg weapon tho

thin mantle
slim dragon
tacit oriole
#

xD

thin mantle
tacit oriole
#

Hip fire it I guess

#

I got it: shoulder mounted hypsi cannons

slim dragon
#

The heaviest sword ever weighed 10 kilos, just to compare

thin mantle
#

You sure bout that?

slim dragon
thin mantle
#

Actually nvm that makes sense

#

10 kilos’ll of sharpened steel’ do some serious damage

#

What am I on about

tacit oriole
#

I mean it kinda makes sense, 10kg is a lot to swing around at any sort of real speed

thin mantle
tacit oriole
#

sonic.jpg

slim dragon
#

What is the heaviest sword ever made?

A two-handed sword used in the Middle Ages and early Modern Era. It was used in the struggle of the Scottish clans between 1400 and 1700. The Claymore measured approximately 140 inches and weighed about 2.5 kilos. The largest sword in the history of this model measured 2.24 meters and weighing about 10 kilos.
Here's the actual quote, sadly I don't know the source

tacit oriole
#

what the actual fck? that doesn't sound right lol

thin mantle
slim dragon
#

2.24 meters sword tho TI_TheEndIsNigh

thin mantle
#

Rip anyone on the receiving end of that society ender

slim dragon
#

Well back on topic
I'm not sure if I like the idea of Hypsi having different spit effect based on what it eats, it's only gastric acid after all

thin mantle
#

So it would have some effect depending on what you ate

#

Plus, idgaf hypsi needs to be more interesting

slim dragon
#

climbing

tacit oriole
#

or something else that made the target really stinky for a bit, so they were easy to smell

thin mantle
tacit oriole
#

maybe peppers that make the blind effect worse

thin mantle
# slim dragon climbing

Climbing wouldn’t be unique to hypsi tho, I just want it to have something more involved with the only thing that sets it apart rn

barren oracle
#

@pale kindle they're fixing it with the update

pale kindle
tacit oriole
#

I think I want to delete my suggestion now I know how far it is from reality

#

especially as there's unlikely to be any significant patches before U4

barren oracle
#

no patches

#

just the stress test "sometime this week"

fading moss
barren oracle
#

the fps is only really bad if you look at north

#

as it loads in stuff there

tacit oriole
#

good news is you should, in theory, get better fps in U4 than you ever got in U3, assuming all the mass procedurally generated trees are gone

#

Or the assets are baked into the map instead of being generated live

barren oracle
#

i think they've added a better render system

tacit oriole
#

It's the same UE4.26.2 render system I believe, I doubt they will move to U5 beta for this

#

but it's one of the plugins that seems to be causing the issues

#

should help server load too

barren oracle
#

i love the balance patches

#

i think im the only 1 tho

tacit oriole
#

The last one uh... lacked finesse though

barren oracle
#

i liked it

#

nerfed utah

#

nerfed deino

tacit oriole
#

utah didn't need to be nerfed that hard, deino did, carno didn't

#

beyond the utah issues which divide the community the new food requirements is a bit silly

barren oracle
#

carno got a nerf buff

ocean wagon
#

The only nerf Utah didn’t need was their agility nerf tbh. But they’re fixing that

barren oracle
#

deino needed it

tacit oriole
#

carno charge dealing 500 was a good change

barren oracle
#

utah needed it

#

utahs a pack animal now

tacit oriole
#

the issue I have with new carno new utah

#

is they are noob mincing machines

#

and ineffective against good players

#

like 2 utahs can easily kill a noob stego with some patience

#

but can't touch a good one

ocean wagon
#

That is the point of survival, is it not?

barren oracle
#

i mean

#

they can annihilate a steg

#

and they arent meant to be apex killing creatures anyway

#

they're supposed to feed on smaller creatures

#

like dryo

tacit oriole
#

If you kill a stego as a utah, and it wasn't already near death, that was a noob stego plain and simple. I've 6v1'd and barely gotten hurt

barren oracle
#

and the utahs aswell

ocean wagon
#

Take a pack of wolves for example

tacit oriole
#

I'm not saying they should, but I hate mechanics which really punish new players and new players only

#

it's too exclusive

ocean wagon
#

They don’t stroll up to a healthy bull moose thinking they’re going to have a meal. They wait until it’s sick or until it’s already badly damaged

barren oracle
#

they can bait you

#

they can bleed you out

#

they can out damage you

tacit oriole
#

I'll put money on the table that you and however many utah friends you have can't kill me as a stego

#

and I'm not as good as some out there

#

Deino - yeah it can be done. Carno - if they are good enough

#

utah? nah

barren oracle
#

utah yeah

#

its the power of baiting

ocean wagon
#

Yeah I don’t want this to become about player skill, but you have to have a smooth brain to die to around 6 Utah’s as a full grown stego

barren oracle
#

and waiting

tacit oriole
#

bait a stego into what?

#

only noob stegos are baitable by a utah

barren oracle
#

hitting the wrong direction

ocean wagon
#

^^^^

tacit oriole
#

if a stego is swinging at utahs with their tail they are already noob

barren oracle
#

even just coming from 4 directions is enough

tacit oriole
#

so? you get 4 pounced. Stego aims two at a tree, bucks, kills both of them

#

now what

ocean wagon
#

Getting baited is your fault, a stego using its environment is basically untouchable to Utah’s

barren oracle
#

depends on how the utahs play it

tacit oriole
#

2 dead, two no stam, stego still on 90% hp and blood

barren oracle
#

and reminding you in update 5 they can jump off in the direction they want to

tacit oriole
#

THAT will fix utah

#

atm you pounce within tailswing of a tree and you are a dead utah

barren oracle
#

utahs will take alot of fine tuning

tacit oriole
#

and if all else fails stego can just park in palms and be literally impossible to pounce

#

then the only way to kill is to try and dehydrate it to death

barren oracle
#

not that hard if im being honest

tacit oriole
#

even then I have out-baited utahs at rivers

barren oracle
#

stegs what 30m hydration?

tacit oriole
#

30min, same as everything except deion

#

deino

barren oracle
#

but tbh utah isnt meant to be able to win

tacit oriole
#

no it isn't, and it is good that they can't headbite them down anymore

#

I was only disputing that it was even viable at all this patch

#

I had this same argument with someone else before, got them in a server and showed them the issues

#

happy to do the same if you want

#

I can even start on 20% everything

barren oracle
#

wanna 1v1 in a bit

#

im an admin on a free grow server

tacit oriole
#

it's 4am here atm, can I add you and do it tomorrow? I can hop on now but fading fast

barren oracle
#

yeah do it tommorow sometime

tacit oriole
#

👍

barren oracle
#

4am isnt the time to 1v1

tacit oriole
#

it might be harder for you if I have high ping... work it out then I've got a server too

#

But yeah being dehydrated out of a treecamp is one of the reason I mainly graze as a stego. Don't like journeying that far out into the plains

#

Plus you there's always other people around the main areas to disrupt a really long-term camp

sinful cove
#

The blue bubbles should just be redone entirely they look awful

tall bronze
#

Also holding Q while staying still in water drastically increases water sense range.

And also yes I agree the VFX need to change. Fortunately, I think it was said they're temporary.

tacit oriole
#

I'd also like to see watersense be significantly shorter when moving and flat unavailable when sprinting

#

Also like to see distances based on how much noise something is making - carbon sprint swimming should be audible from ages away, a drink slowly cruising underwater should be almost inaudible

true ginkgo
#

Larger animals should show up further than smaller ones too

#

An adult deino should show up quite a way off. While a fresh beip hatchling barely registers even at point blank.

carmine charm
#

Fix bug where the dino gets wiped after safelog or hardlog. Very annoying to start the "day" with 2 hours in a bush .... Most of the time i have only an hour or maybe 2 to play. So this bug literally killed the whole game for me ... @developers

tulip star
#

@alpine plover

#

why

alpine plover
#

Deinosuchus is an apex predator. The way HP and Weight scales according to your growth is deliberate.

#

It should be very very hard to grow

#

Almost an impossible challenge

#

You. Are. An. Apex. Predator.

tulip star
#

Did you even watch the clip

stark knoll
#

their feedback isnt about their weight at the time of growth, its about the apparent disconnect between weight and model size (i believe)

#

an 80% deino is visually 80% as large as a FG one, but is half the weight. imo weight and model size should be tied to each other

tulip star
#

weight, model size, and the fact at 80% you have half the hp

stark knoll
#

im perfectly fine with apexes not getting a growth spurt until later in life, but i dont think thats what this post is about

alpine plover
#

The formula for how stats scale with growth need to be adjusted.

tulip star
#

So you believe at 80% you should have half the hp?

stark knoll
#

i dont think any animal should grow linearly, imo

#

i like the idea of various growth spurts and stagnation over the growing period

alpine plover
tulip star
#

I am like 2 km/h faster

alpine plover
#

No you’re not.

indigo turtle
#

avaceratops are you shitposting right now

tulip star
#

Did you even watch the clip and see that an 80% grown deino can get facetanked by 2 adult tenos and the deino cant do anything

#

even though I got multiple headshots on them

alpine plover
#

Yes, you were on shallow water. That’s why you couldn’t do anything.

tulip star
#

Holy shit

indigo turtle
#

unless deino grab scaling got nerfed im pretty sure u could also get grabbed by an adult deino too, lol @tulip star

#

1/2 the weight so ur still in grabbing size

stark knoll
#

grabbing deinos is useless since they have the same drown timer

alpine plover
#

^

stark knoll
#

those tenos were in grab range though

indigo turtle
#

yea but 2 deinos and they could decide you dont get to do damage

harsh lark
#

Thats besides the point

tulip star
#

What was I supposed to do with that grab tho

#

I just get attacked by the other one

harsh lark
#

A deino thats 80% the size of an adult deino can be picked up by the adult deino. Visually its ridiculous and doesn't reflect actual sizes.

indigo turtle
#

like 2 on 1 is still disadvantageous for the 1 deino but the fact they can be 80% thru their growth and still get grabbed and killed without being able to do anything is kinda something else

alpine plover
#

The subadult and fresh adult stages of Apexes should be absolutely the hardest stages of growth, in which you’re not strong enough to defend yourself and not small enough to hide.

Subadult and fresh adult Deinosuchus should be hard, and a challenge. Making the player actually be aware of were they are, and how they’re moving, instead of passing through shallows without even minding that there may be other people there

indigo turtle
#

yea he shouldve afked you're right

wheat ridge
#

all dinos get most of their wait in the last 15% of their growth it seems, most dinos looks bigger and stronger than they actually are

#

weight*

indigo turtle
#

why wasnt he eating elite fish on the edge of the map

indigo turtle
tulip star
#

@wheat ridge thats the problem

#

Thats garbage game design

indigo turtle
#

that was the point of the suggestion im pretty sure

wheat ridge
#

ye it pretty weird

#

they should balance it more

indigo turtle
#

is that you're visually 80% the size but statistically 1/2 the weight and hp

#

why did u put "no" then

tulip star
#

So why did you put no

harsh lark
alpine plover
#

Yes it does.

tulip star
#

No it doesnt

alpine plover
#

Currently it does.

wheat ridge
#

i thought this videos was just crying that the crocs got killed by tenos

tulip star
#

Currently it doesnt

indigo turtle
#

and in future it will too

alpine plover
#

???????

indigo turtle
#

diets will not fix that

alpine plover
#

It does encourage you with afk growing

#

Is what im saying

tulip star
#

Yeah

#

why

indigo turtle
#

you like afk growing?

tulip star
#

Why do you like afk growing

alpine plover
tulip star
#

Omg

#

Bro

wheat ridge
#

was that before the patch 2 or was it a side effect because they wanted to make younger stages of dinos weaker?

alpine plover
#

where did i say i like afk growing

indigo turtle
#

you're shitposting

tulip star
#

Read the conversation

#

You cant be real

alpine plover
#

Can you show me though?

tulip star
#

youre trolling

indigo turtle
#

ok ok ok

tulip star
#

Theres no way youre not

alpine plover
#

Can you?

indigo turtle
#

what is your stance on the issue

tulip star
#

You can read the convo

indigo turtle
#

i literally dont even know your opinion at this point

alpine plover
#

Give me a moment. I’m corroborating some stats.

tulip star
#

Youre trolling

alpine plover
#

"Being 80% and being unable to defend yourself or hide is good game-play because you literally can't do anything other than afk. Just wait until you're adult."

#

Subadult deinosuchus is 28.7 kmph. Full grown Adult Deinosuchus is 18 kmph.

Sub Deino is 160% faster than full grown Deino. My point is that you were playing fresh adult Deino as a full grown Deino, when this game has ontogenetic niche partitioning, where your stats morph with your growth, and so does your niche.

tulip star
#

@vagrant inlet why?

alpine plover
#

Adult Deino trot is faster than Sub Deino trot

#

at 80% you will get walked down

#

it comes down to literally never being seen by an Adult Deinosuchus, meaning growth isn't hard, it's based entirely on luck(or how willing you are to afk).

indigo turtle
alpine plover
#

Alright

tulip star
#

so thats it?

alpine plover
#

run out of arguments?

stark knoll
tulip star
#

Also what different niches does deinosuchus have as subadult compared to adult

alpine plover
#

The game does encourage you to afk grow. And that’s for every single animal. Specially so Deinosuchus; they should focus on that, not on making it easy players that do not know how to play the game and when they die to their own fault they blame it on the game’s design.

That’s my take, I’m going to have breakfast now, see ya guys. This is just a conversation about a fucking dinosaur game btw, no need to call me a shitposter just because i dont agree with you LOL

tulip star
#

You should focus on not playing the game

#

Okay

#

Yeah because thats how a game should be played, not trying to eliminate the problem with afk growing

#

just encourage it

alpine plover
#

Do you know how to read.

tulip star
#

Oh okay I misread it as trying to encourage it

alpine plover
#

Lol

tulip star
#

but the problem with that is how do you counter it with having adult be so shit the way it is right now

#

or fresh adult*

alpine plover
#

You make it 160% faster

#

Yeah there's no reason to not afk if your stats can't keep up with anything

harsh lark
stark knoll
#

based on the video, map design

#

and afaik subadult is already faster than FG

tulip star
#

But that literally does nothing, being faster then adult deino means nothing

alpine plover
#

Also 160% speed doesnt get you away, Ava. you would still just get trotted down by an adult

tulip star
#

You get trotted down by adult

#

You have the same stamina

alpine plover
tulip star
#

and FG adult deino trot is leagues faster

#

But you cant run

alpine plover
#

Walk in the other direction, except they'll walk you down anyway

indigo turtle
#

you focus on removing afk growth by making animals viable at smaller sizes, at his size he is: grabbable by adult deino, is 1/2 the weight, and by extension 1/2 the hp of an animal which is visually 20% larger

tulip star
#

you literally cant and what does that quote have anything to do with this

alpine plover
#

Yeah that quote didn't add anything lol

tulip star
#

When did we ever say to fight an adult deino

alpine plover
tulip star
#

again

alpine plover
#

It's not faster-enough

tulip star
#

doesnt matter

alpine plover
#

You will still just die

#

guaranteed

tulip star
#

Trot down

indigo turtle
#

you just lose all the ground you gain from sprinting when it turns into a trotting battle

alpine plover
#

It comes down to literally not ever being seen by an adult Deinosuchus

harsh lark
stark knoll
#

square-cube law is a fickle beast

#

but imo its a necessary one

#

to me, a perfect linear scaling of stats is boring and removes a lot of gameplay and challenge opportunities

tulip star
#

Its necessary to have an adult deino have twice the hp, weight, and ability to trot down a smaller 80% grown deino?

stark knoll
#

additionally its important to note how deinos current biggest issues lie in the map

alpine plover
#

So you're telling me, we all like the idea of having literally 0 chance to outplay/outmanuever an adult of your species? because of the square cube law??? lmfao

stark knoll
#

you couldve drowned those tenos, if the map wasnt littered with absurdly shallow bodies of water

tulip star
#

Thats not my point

indigo turtle
stark knoll
harsh lark
# stark knoll square-cube law is a fickle beast

That's true, but if you're gonna have disproportionate growth it should be the reverse of what it is now. Dinos quickly grow out of their juvi stages and spend most of their life as subadult. Not forcing players to stagnate in the most boring part of the game for artificial difficulty.

indigo turtle
#

if hp and weight werent so rigidly connected, that might also help

tulip star
alpine plover
#

The sprint speed doesnt matter tho

#

You'll get trotted down

alpine plover
stark knoll
tulip star
#

Ive grown over like 20 deinos and I have trotted down a numerous amount of sub adult and fresh adult deinos

#

and there was nothing they could do

alpine plover
#

facts

stark knoll
#

currently model scaling is linear/tied to your growth percent; what if it wasnt?

alpine plover
#

then at 80% youd be smaller, and by proxy have a slower trot LOL

stark knoll
#

the issue right now, in this conversation, is that a visually (and more importantly, time invested) 80% deino was half its weight, well what if it was the other way around? (as a thought experiment, not actually suggesting this)

indigo turtle
#

it would be helpful visually speaking to give you an accurate understanding of your stats yes, but you'd still have gone through 80% of your total growth to be 1/2 as effective

stark knoll
#

ie what if deino was 4 tons at 50% growth but kept the model scaling?

alpine plover
#

then it would still die to adult deinos

stark knoll
#

to me that sounds like garbage having a growth spurt that early, but again, just a thought experiment

alpine plover
#

because they have a stat advantage it just wouldnt be so bloated and easy

stark knoll
harsh lark
stark knoll
#

imo the issue lies mostly in the map

#

too many garbage shallow areas

alpine plover
#

so we do like the idea of a full grown dino killing you with no counterplay?

tulip star
#

its not

#

Map solves nothing

#

thats not the problem

stark knoll
#

you wouldve won that fight if you werent in shallow water

alpine plover
#

Nothing will solve this issue if it’s not what I suggested!

tulip star
#

When did I say that

#

what

alpine plover
stark knoll
harsh lark
#

You're focusing too much on it being a deino issue when this scenario applies to basically every dino in the game.

tulip star
#

You literally havent suggested anything else but a map change

alpine plover
#

sorry.

indigo turtle
#

the issue isnt so much the tenos themselves at it is the fact that the stat scaling doesnt make sense from a game balance perspective

alpine plover
#

You literally dont play the game until youre adult, because you dont want to waste your tiem

#

its super simple with how the scaling is now

#

that's just how it works, because being smaller makes you literally fucking useless

stark knoll
alpine plover
#

^

stark knoll
#

its been said diets will not only help you grow faster but will outright buff your stats

alpine plover
#

I think you're wrong, I think the game would be less boring as a whole if you could do something as smaller dinosaurs for multiple reasons

harsh lark
stark knoll
#

so itll theoretically be very possible to shitstomp something 20% more grown than you if theyve been afking/doing nothing for their diet

alpine plover
#

it would increase the replayability, because of the fact that there would be more matchups? it wouldnt just be, wait to adult, fight other adults, delete juvies

stark knoll
alpine plover
#

just having smaller dinosaurs not be garbage

tulip star
#

or have half the hp as 80%....

alpine plover
#

you are worse than an adult in every way there's literally no reason to play

#

just wait until adult stage

tulip star
#

no

alpine plover
#

it's simple as fuck

tulip star
#

not until adult stage

#

wait until 100%

#

adult

alpine plover
#

what he said

tulip star
#

Do I agree that 80% deino should be weaker then 100% adult, obv yes but do I think it should be half the hp at 80%

#

no

alpine plover
#

like i get that being a baby is supposed to be scary or difficult or something, but atm surviving is completely rng based

#

unless you afk

#

yes. and that should be changed.

#

not the way the stats scale with growth

#

Ontogenetic niche partitioning + Ontogenetic diet shifts should fix that to an extent.

Though they’re revising the possibility of both, it’s pretty unlikely for those to be a thing.

timber bane
#

I have a question, do you guys plan on working on the river so it not just water can there be some river grass? More Deinosuchos areas, because there is not a lot of stuff interesting underwater

alpine plover
#

Yes

#

There’s 6 rivers being added + some water foliage in Update 4

Afaik

indigo turtle
#

if ur gonna split it up at all id argue it'd be better to have the stats scale better at younger growths and reach near full stats around 70-80% of total growth time and then your last 20% rounds out ur stats to their final values

timber bane
#

And what about adding lush grass in the rivers? sticks leaves

thin herald
#

Weight and HP weren't a mistake.

#

They are an improvement from arbitrary numbers that are nonsensical.

#

Stego for instance.

#

4,500 HP but its a 6,000 kg Creature

#

Utah as well. 500kg but has 1,000 hp (before current patch)

alpine plover
#

Yeah.

sonic flame
#

Yeah idk why people think that animals having such a discrepancy was a good thing

#

120kg Stego and 120kg Dryo prepatch was wack

#

Dryo had 3x the hp

#

12.5 kg Utah and 54 kg Teno spawned at the same hp

#

And those are just cases of animals being too tanky for their size

#

Not factoring in things like Stego or Deino having far less hp than their size would suggest

dawn falcon
#

Weight = HP makes it way less complicated to balance animals.

barren oracle
#

yeah

slim dragon
#

I'd say it's the opposite. It forces a way of balancing that is not realistic at all and prevents a lot of uniqueness from animals. An animal that is build for fighting and taking hits should be more resistant that another one that is the same weight but not built for combat. Example being Cerato and Carno : Cerato could be lighter, but tankier than Carno. Not to crazy extents, of course, like Utah having twice its weight as health while being built like a stick, but still notable to make a difference in a fight. Also, being bigger doesn't make you proportionnaly tougher either.

primal dove
#

ahh yes utah getting oneshot from a tail slam very good

harsh lark
#

Its an arbitrary connection between unrelated mechanics. HP should be based on visual size and bulk, not numbers you grab from web articles. We don't use actual bite force numbers for damage either so why force HP into unnecessary constraints like this.

alpine plover
#

I think HP should account for the BASE HP.

#

But things like osteoderms, bulkiness, armor, and more should increase that initial base HP

vale harness
#

i feel like generally hp=weight is fine. but not for every dino. anky weighs less than trike, but it should prolly have more health. besides those situations, i feel like its fine.

barren oracle
vale harness
#

would be kinda cool if biting an anky had a change to crack a couple teeth and lower damage

#

seems overpowered tho

#

chance*

dawn falcon
# slim dragon I'd say it's the opposite. It forces a way of balancing that is not realistic at...

That’s why you edit the base multipliers for damage inputs. Separating HP and Weight adds an unneeded step in balancing creatures.
If something weighs 4 tons, it’s HP should reflect that without it getting messy where a 4 ton carnivore has 10K Hp (example), or a 6 ton herbivore has 4K HP.
Regardless of size, Hp should reflect that.
Smalls are generally weaker due to their weight (which weight = HP reflects that quite well), pseudo-mids like Carno and maybe Teno have their weight reflected perfectly.
And the argument (not saying this is your argument. Just what I’ve seen) for abilities like pounce? Just increase the weight threshold where it can pin creatures weighing more than it, though it’s just an example

dawn falcon
#

Due to how armored anky it

#

Is

#

Id say it’s damage multipliers should be pretty low

#

Like maybe to the point it’s equal to a tail shot for both its tail and it’s body

#

But the head is slightly higher

#

Just not significantly higher

vale harness
# dawn falcon Honestly

yea i mean anky's kinda hard to balance because it will cripple really quickly, but it probably won't really do a ton of damage overall. so i feel like adding a thorns kinda thing would be necessary

dawn falcon
#

It should deal a bunch of fracture damage

#

Maybe a high damage output plus high fracture damage

vale harness
#

or make it do more damage when the opponent is fractured

spare badger
#

Anky should only be weak to headshots

#

And small things biting it's ankles

#

And it's tail too
Bit that's a bad idea

#

It's body is too wide and armoured to dent

vale harness
#

just nerf its bleeding health when running or trotting and buff it when standing. that'll make it so it should defend and not chase down. then its balanced to have it be mean as hell in combat

sonic flame
#

Adding things like armor and stuff isn't hard at all, so in that way you can artificially increase the hp of something like Anky to be higher or equal to a larger more massive animal

#

however to address HP being based on visual size instead of mass, an animal that is more tanky will also be more massive than an animal that is less tanky if they are both the same visual height or length

alpine plover
sonic flame
#

For example, a Teno the same height as a Carno would have more HP on account of being more tanky, but since its mass would increase as well the ratio works still

#

likewise if you took a rex and shrunk it to the visual size of a Utahraptor, it'd still weigh more than the Utah because rex is a heavyset animal while Utah is lithe (at least in The Isle)

#

so Rex's tankiness would be preserved compared to another animal its size

#

only case where an animals ability to be tanky doesn't make sense with mass = hp is when you want a smaller animal to have more HP than a larger one, and can't justify an armor system

fiery mantle
sonic flame
#

i.e. Cerato having more HP than Carno, could be done by giving it armor to increase its vitality, but Cerato doesn't really have armor

sonic flame
fiery mantle
#

Lol you commented on that right as I was typing

sonic flame
#

and then it could be given armor

#

but it wouldn't need the armor per say

alpine plover
#

maybe a new armor hitbox can be make to immune or reduce damage of the hit part depending of what the attack is, like small osteoderms reducing the damage and complete armor being immune to most attacks.

fiery mantle
#

Yeah not really armor I’m just asking if it’s necessary will there be exceptions

#

Giga and Rex was just an example

spare badger
sonic flame
#

since for example, the Giga could be faster, or have more stamina, or have a whole range of other things that don't just lead to being artificially tanky

#

and that's true of really any animal

fiery mantle
sonic flame
#

Cerato could be made a serious threat to Carno by for example, increasing its bite damage and attack rate

spare badger
#

#Giveceraheadarmour

sonic flame
#

if Cerato was capable of killing Carno before the Carno could kill it in close quarters, then you have a brawler, despite the lower hp

#

There will obviously be some exceptions

#

like Anky, Minmi, possibly others

fiery mantle
#

Makes sense, I’m of the opinion that if Carno gets his ability off then he should win, but if it’s a face tank fight Cerato should win

#

Cerato is likely to weigh about 1600k right?

sonic flame
#

but aside from animals that need armor or have resistances to certain effects, then there's no real need for HP to be the way to balance out an animal punching above its size

#

"likely" is a strong word

#

it's a very solid maybe

#

the model and concept was made before the larger Cerato, but the larger Cerato doesn't really hurt anything

fiery mantle
#

Makes sense

sonic flame
#

kinda like how there's an 8 ton Stego that recently got described

#

the extra 2k hp wouldn't really change Stego's playstyle at all, you'd still need to use the same tactics but they'd just take longer

#

it would gain a better match up against larger animals maybe, but those larger animals aren't in game

#

so who knows if it'll even matter, like what if Giga's ability doesn't care about the extra mass

fiery mantle
#

Is there a plan for a Giga special ability?

#

I’m curious as to what it could be

sonic flame
#

afaik no

#

most of the animals don't have dedicated special abilities announced

fiery mantle
#

I think it’d be cool if he had a bite that dealt less damage but hit hard with bleed

sonic flame
#

tho some easy guesses can be made

#

i.e. a Ceratopsian will probably be able to charge, Anky will have armor and deal heavy fracture, Spinosaurid claw swipes

fiery mantle
#

Baryonyx claw attack would be so cool

sonic flame
#

I'd be shocked if an animal named "heavy claw" with those massive claws wasn't given a claw attack

fiery mantle
#

He’d finally demand the respect he deserves

#

Poor Bary in legacy

sonic flame
#

Well that's kinda too soon to call

#

sure it'll have a claw attack

#

but how meaningful will that really be

#

I doubt for example, it'll out damage a Teno tail slam/kick

fiery mantle
#

Well in general I assume you won’t be seeing a Utah or Dilo soloing a Bary in EVRIMA with ease like in Legacy

sonic flame
#

Yeah, ideally it'd just knock a Utah on its ass

#

same with a Dilo, Bary is twice the size of a Dilo after all

fiery mantle
#

In legacy you can get bleed out by 1 dilo bite

#

Sad

#

*bled

sonic flame
#

In legacy they didn't put venom in the game so dilo just had stupid high bleed damage

#

also bleed drained your hp and did nothing else in Legacy lol

fiery mantle
#

I really like how bleed was revised for EVRIMA

#

It makes it just as much of a threat but without making it the meta

#

Now it feels like dinos that rely on raw damage like Cerato will be overall more useful

sonic flame
#

Plus there's 2 additional status effects

#

Stuns/CC and Blunt/Fracture

fiery mantle
#

Yeah

sonic flame
#

Legacy really only had Raw, Bleed which was just Raw but over a longer period of time, and Rex's RNG you die button

fiery mantle
#

I always described it as Legacy combat is like playing a game of checkers where as EVRIMA combat is more actual reaction time and skill

sonic flame
#

Tho Legacy did have the caveat of anything could feasibly kill anything else

#

which was good or bad depending on your view

fiery mantle
#

Yeah don’t get me wrong I enjoy a dose of legacy every now and then but damn it’s funny to watch sometimes

#

Me and my buddy were playing Cerato and 2 v 2d Rexes

#

We won

sonic flame
#

in Evrima it's highly unlikely that any amount of skill can overcome the sheer gap of hp and damage between something like a Utah and a Rex

#

meanwhile in Legacy there was tail riding