balance-feedback-discussion

[crystal wharf]

found the utah main

no main

i literally play everything

including solo utah

[crystal wharf]

found another utah main

[cedar shore]

How can you even say the utah nerf was balanced and needed then? Like what?

[crystal wharf]

because i understand the 2 utahs being able to kill a stego was wrong?
or that maybe utah shouldnt be able to kill literally anything with just bites?

[frosty heron]

As I'm getting more information about Utah and the effort to kill certain dinos now, I can pretty much say Utah is garbage even hunting Stegos

[crystal wharf]

oh no shit sherlock

maybe next time you try to kill a stego

instead of running in and all pouncing

bleed it out with a max pack

[frosty heron]

Funny thing even bleeding it with full pack takes ages and lots of pounces

[crystal wharf]

good

thats how its meant to be

[frosty heron]

Stego has time to go take a coffee middlefight and come back and it will still be alive

[frosty heron]

Good? Lmao you're a troll

[crystal wharf]

so your crying that you cant nuke 5 hours worth of stego in like 10 minutes?

[wide cosmos]

Anecdotal, steggo has to be afk or incompetent for that to happen

[frosty heron]

Stego has nothing to fear in this patch, thing its absolute trash in balance

[cedar shore]

There is allready tons of counterplay for raptors, if youre dying as a stego to 2 raptors its your fault, not the game

[crystal wharf]

or utahs need to have at least 1 braincell

[frosty heron]

With a pack worth 7 hours of total growth , yes

[crystal wharf]

ah yes
the typical
"stego doesnt need a buff, its actually op" utah main

[frosty heron]

We have an Herbie main here

[wide cosmos]

I see that you don't want to bring anything constructive to the argument, just another salty player

[crystal wharf]

what part of i play everything did your brain fail to wrap around?

[crystal wharf]

ok
so
let me guess, stego was perfectly fine in update 3.5 right?

[frosty heron]

What part of I don't give a fuck did you get?

[crystal wharf]

you clearly do

[cedar shore]

how about actually give a good argument against mine instead of just actung up?

[dawn sand]

"What do you mean you don't agree with me, you're just a salty [insert animal here] main >>>:("

[crystal wharf]

answer the question

[cedar shore]

answer mine

[crystal wharf]

you didnt ask a question

[crystal wharf]

i dont think they understand you were talking about them

[cedar shore]

this

[frosty heron]

Literally this guy argument goes to the trash can when he used "Utah main"

[crystal wharf]

thats not a question you idiot

[crystal wharf]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/778350416831709314/875787491830026320
https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/778350416831709314/875786819604725810

[dawn sand]

You literally called them an herbie main turok lol

[wide cosmos]

Probably not perfectly, but we are talking on how bad utahs are right now not about some anecdote of solo x killing solo y

[frosty heron]

Just another average Utah hater who probably died to them many times to actually get a good argument

I'll call that Salt

[crystal wharf]

says the person crying that utah cant kill anything in the game effortlessly

[cedar shore]

you never gave a counterargument, instead you just got upset because my opinion didnt match yours

[frosty heron]

Effortlessly? This is not effort, at this point killing a Stego with 2 brain cells its a Dark Souls boss fight

[golden coral]

But it's not worth the same time.

[wide cosmos]

You are implying that it took no effort for a Utah pack to kill a steggo? Please... you are done here

[dawn sand]

It kinda should be lol

[cedar shore]

you clearly dont play raptor

[crystal wharf]

you hold right click on it and it couldnt do anything because it was a slow ass stego
i'd call that effortless

[golden coral]

It should be!

Why is this so hard to get?!

[crystal wharf]

good

[cedar shore]

still waiting for a counterargument

[frosty heron]

It definitely shouldn't

[wide cosmos]

😀 good one, buck right click Utah dead, repeat

[golden coral]

It should

[frosty heron]

Then Stego has no predators

[crystal wharf]

im waiting for you to say something clearly that i can actually give a counterargument to

[golden coral]

It does, full packs of utahs.

As it should be. Like with other large animals.

[harsh lark]

You grew in a bush for 5 hours, that doesn't make you entitled to being a raid boss without any skill input on your part.

[wide cosmos]

I guess your are not just salty but also very incompetent player

[frosty heron]

I said multiple times even packs are a goddamn joke

[cedar shore]

@crystal wharf what do you have to say against this?

[golden coral]

It does. AFKgrowing being a thing for everyone is not a valid argument.

[crystal wharf]

say that again in a clear way that i can actually give an argument against

[true ginkgo]

Alternative idea…

Bring it back to 3 utah = stego…

Balance by making stego have under 3 hours growth.

Monkey paw utah main wish

[golden coral]

And AFKgrowing is an entirely different issue. I'm talking about proper balance for the animal for what it is.

[golden coral]

Are they really? I saw the same info you did, but I guess I interpreted it differently then.

[harsh lark]

Why should I bother playing smaller dinos then. If I need a full pack to kill a big dino regardless of skill I might as well be playing pikmin at that point

[crystal wharf]

you grew in a bush for an hour, that doesnt make you entitled to nuke 5 hours of progress in 10 minutes

[cedar shore]

question dodge much?

[crystal wharf]

ah
you're one of these people

[frosty heron]

Better idea, let's give Stego 10000 hp so you can go fishing Deinos at rivers again

Cringy Herbie Main roleplayer wish

[golden coral]

Yes. Go play something that isn't a survival game then if you want to just fight.

Go play BoB.

Or some game designed for everything to fight everything 1v1.

[crystal wharf]

@harsh lark may i suggest a game called beasts of bermuda then
velos can solo rexes in that game

[golden coral]

And yes, that's clearly what I want. You know better. :p

[cedar shore]

bork you cant just avoid an argument you dont know a response to and act like i never said it

[crystal wharf]

malding deino and utah main spotted

[frosty heron]

I'll give you a number, you need 35 pounces with bucking to bleed out a Stego if each pounce it's full stam

[golden coral]

Suffice to say, it's a survival game with an ecosystem.

[harsh lark]

You should play BOB, you can grow an 8 hour apato and be invincible to everything on the map until you die of boredom. Seems to be your style.

[golden coral]

Yes. Now how long does it take to get them all?

[true ginkgo]

I was supporting deino buffs too actually. I just don’t know it quite as thoroughlyas stego.

[cedar shore]

thats ignorance

[crystal wharf]

i can and i am
i will repeat
say that in a clear way that i can actually form an argument against instead of screaming to answer it

[golden coral]

Really. Then I guess BoB has changed direction from what I know.

[frosty heron]

You don't know shit about what I main

[true ginkgo]

Hyped for diets deleting afk growing

[golden coral]

But last I was there, BoB was the whole PvP for everyone.

[crystal wharf]

the way you talk and react says more than enough

[golden coral]

Not the kind of game I want, hence why I'm here instead.

[alpine plover]

the isle community

[frosty heron]

Long enought to say Stego is either OP or Utah its absolute garbage even in packs

[cedar shore]

okay, why should raptors be nerfed further when there was allready so much counterplay against them?

[harsh lark]

Apatos can have 11k HP and only take 50 dmg a bite from an adult Acro. The balance has honestly shifted to be more like legacy isle in recent times.

[wide cosmos]

Because supposedly Bork got killed by 2 utahs this one time, so it's justified

[flat apex]

I'll try that but the bite force currently is like 5 or 8 ...not sure if AI feels that.

[cedar shore]

lol

[crystal wharf]

there was minimal counterplay, especially for something as slow as stego, even if you managed to abuse a bug that allowed you to kill them after a pounce, they could still destroy you with head bites solo because of how slow stego swings towards the front, if this is the game you want, go play another game

[true ginkgo]

Imagine a 5 hour growth near apex, which is incapable of fleeing, being hard for small tiers to kill.

I’m shocked! Shocked I tell you!

[golden coral]

Like I said. I've not kept up, so I apologize there then. But from what I knew, BoB was designed for "everything can kill everything 1v1" more or less.

[crystal wharf]

dude
you're pathetic

[harsh lark]

If you can't hit a a utah once in those 10 straight minutes of combat, you have no business playing Stego. Are apexes supposed to be challenging and rewarding or baby proofed gameplay?

[primal dove]

it does, played utah today, was a full adult and could kill an adult ai with 1 bite

[cedar shore]

yeah thats not a problem with raptor though and thats still not a good enough reason to nerf its health and pounce letheality.

[golden coral]

@harsh larkIn any case, I want a proper survival game. I want a game where it's hunting over fighting, where it's 30-60 min long or longer hunts, with proper stalking, planning, and so on. I want a survival game, not a fighting game. If you think 10 min is long, then we severely disagree. To me a long hunt is at least 30 min of back and forth.

[crystal wharf]

it is a problem with the raptor you brainlet

[golden coral]

And yes, I believe that hunting a rex or similar should be 30+ min of difficult fighting. At the very least.

It's a survival game, your job is to survive, not to fight and kill. Killing is part of it, but for need, not want. As such, as long as you can get what you need, you don't have to be able to do more than that.

That is proper survival balance. Nothing more or less.

[cedar shore]

no, stego needs a faster tail swipe, utah doesnt need less agility

[frosty heron]

Imagine Dark Souls but in The Isle, Stego mains wants to be the boss

[golden coral]

If you dislike that sort of game, that's fine. I like it and that's what I will argue for.

[true ginkgo]

Utah will feel fine once there are actual comparable playables in like galli.

[golden coral]

Not just stego, any of the large animals mind you!

Besides, they do want this hardcore survival horror, so Dark Souls sounds accurate, no? :p

[harsh lark]

If you play correctly as a prey animal you can make hunts extend to times that long. As teno I've forced utahs into extremely long battles of attrition by just playing defensively and holing up in favorable positions, like cliffs and rivers that restrict their mobility.

You don't make hunts last 30 minutes by literally making it take 30 minutes of attacking to kill a stego.

[frosty heron]

Even myself won't agree to take a fucking hour to kill a Rex as an Utah pack

[true ginkgo]

Kissen already said apexes will be more scary than legacy.

[frosty heron]

If the Rex has the capacity to murder them all in less than 10 minutes

[verbal crescent]

The isle is meant to be a difficult, demanding survival game, not a brawling fighting game where a fight is over in two minutes

[primal dove]

just give it a faster tail jab which does less dmg and can be used while walking, problem solved no need to nerf utah until it´s just dead

[harsh lark]

No moving tail jab, that should just die with legacy.

[golden coral]

I have done similar. But there has to be a baseline to it too. So yes, you do make it last longer by stats as well. It's as simple as that.

[true ginkgo]

Utah has no business messing with rex .

[golden coral]

Well then, now you're just wrong.

[frosty heron]

Problem is. If you play herb there's no difficulty here

[crystal wharf]

you specifically asked for the issues against stego there
raptor agility also made carno vs raptor extremely raptor favored if the stupid fucker didnt try to fight
made hypsi unable to escape
raptor agility also caused them to be able to dodge any attack with minimal effort

[frosty heron]

Difficult game should be for both sides

[wide cosmos]

All I see is your lack of skill, if you don't know how to play as a steggo does not mean everything has to be dumbed down to pose no threat to you specifically. I had no problem taking on packs of utahs so did many others.

[harsh lark]

You're a defensive herbivore, play like one.

[frosty heron]

If you don't kill a whole pack of Utahs in 60 mins of hunt, I recommend you to swich game

[true ginkgo]

Stego will need a moving tail swing once rex and buddies are in. If it just sits still to fight them it’s fodder. Rex is much larger and more powerful

[golden coral]

Yes. But having a moving attack is a given no matter if you're offensively or defensively designed. Otherwise you can't put pressure on anything, or move to a better position for that matter.

[crystal wharf]

you see the issue here
is that tenonto can actually move around
so unless you want stegos to remain on cliffs or in rivers for their entire growth, this means nothing

[crystal wharf]

you're pathetic

[verbal crescent]

Do remember that evrima is still early in development, and doesn't have all of the mechanics that will make up the game

[primal dove]

it would deal less dmg or these stego players just start using the bite

[golden coral]

If the utahs play it well, it's not like the rex can catch them. They are in total control, simple as that.

The one in control, and the one attacking, should always struggle more.

[true ginkgo]

Also it’s moving tail swing should only hit like 45 degrees to the rear. Should not be used offensively

[golden coral]

It should by any account be easier to defend than attack.

[wide cosmos]

Ad hominem... try again

[harsh lark]

What do you need to pressure as the tankiest, most damaging herbivore in the game? We have different dinos for a reason, if you want a better balance between offense and defense play Tenoto, who has strong forward and rear facing attacks.

[novel tulip]

Dark souls bosses are actually incredibly balanced, if you run in swinging your sword like a maniac you get what you deserve

[frosty heron]

And they're going the wrong way now with balance, so there's that

[crystal wharf]

you're pathetic

[true ginkgo]

Not every animal needs to fight every animal. It’s not a deathmatch game.

[verbal crescent]

They did state that they wanted the pounce to be an attritional tool, not a straight killing tool

[harsh lark]

Stego bite actually used to do utah bite dmg before this patch. It was pretty good for chipping away at carni's to make them more vulnerable to death by tail hits. Not sure why it of all things got nerfed.

[true ginkgo]

Sometimes fleeing is the best action

[golden coral]

The fact that you do not understand that... You need to be able to put pressure so the opponent can't just set the pace entirely. Right now you can walk outside stego range and it can do nothing. If it can move, and attack, you're forced to respond as well. And damage doesn't matter if you can't deliver it very well. Which is another issue with how stego is designed, that can't be fixed with stats, but proper mechanics.

[frosty heron]

It doesn't even do that job well considering the ridiculous amount of pounces you need to kill a Stego

[golden coral]

And teno would still be far more "offense" oriented, even with it's also strongest attacks being defensive. That does not mean you should force something to be stationary.

[verbal crescent]

Most of the base bites got nerfed, not just stegos, in order to encourage use of the special ability

[crystal wharf]

you really dont understand what that means do you

[fallow wagon]

so anyway Dryo balance

[frosty heron]

I'm not gonna reply your troll ass non argument answers, please gtfo

[verbal crescent]

You do know that attrition means to wear something down over a long period of time, right?

[primal folio]

Imagine getting so worked up over an indie dinosaur simulator with a target audience of children and young adults. KEKW

[golden coral]

At no point should you be "safe" just being able to remain outside somethings attack range, without it being able to at least move towards you and pose a threat. Stego and Anky would still have to move past you/up your side, unlike a Shant or Trike for example.

[true ginkgo]

Still think stego was a mistake this early tbh. One of the most powerful herbis in the entire game…. With a roster of smalls.

[primal dove]

ik that was exactly my point if bite was used correctly or used at all everything would have been fine with the matchup

[golden coral]

I know. I'm sorry, but I can not agree with how they want to have the game play. :p

[golden coral]

It was yes. We both know this.

[crystal wharf]

you've provided nothing of value to this argument but flamebait, i'd love to see you leave as well

[harsh lark]

You actually could do that before this patch given stego used to have a utah dmg bite. Also, stego being poor at landing hits is literally just a trade off. Do you expect landing a devastating tail jab to be as easy as hitting a utah bite? The openings in stegos attacks are by design so it's you know, killable.

[golden coral]

Probably because a stego should only really bite things smaller than dryo.

[frosty heron]

Again, seems like people don't understand it, we're talking about Utah pack, vs single Stego. Why should that take 60 mins?

[true ginkgo]

Should have made update 2 just hispy and carno. Then pushed kentro when possible.

[frosty heron]

In 60 mins any competent Stego has time to destroy the entire pack easily

2 pack if he wants

[barren shard]

Attrition hunting something that large could take that long when you are playing something as small as Utah

[cedar shore]

mabye argue a bit more civil? right now you are acting like a child

[golden coral]

Considering they gave stego, an AoE animal, precision attacks... I'm fine with openings, but stego does not function like a stego should. And by no means should a stego bite be anything more than something for small stuff like juvies and similar. But stego should have "AoE" swings rather than the precision, leave that for things like Trike and similar.

Besides, you can still only defend one side, there's your opening.

Don't have to make it a very strange attack to get that.

[verbal crescent]

If the Utah pack is competent and cycling each other in and out with their pounces, and baiting the stego to create openings, then it shouldn't take 60 minutes to kill it

[crystal wharf]

and it doesnt

[golden coral]

Everyone is being childish, arguing skill, claiming mains. Maybe we should all just kind of agree, or disagree, on how we want the game to play, and how the critters should be balanced.

[frosty heron]

Attrition hunting shouldn't take that long you can walk off the map with a Stego trot enjoying the views, you should feel in danger, with this amount of time I can even log in from of the Utahs without even care

[golden coral]

@cedar shoreBecause let's be honest, that's the main issue here. It has nothing to do with what you main, or how skilled you are. It's a question of how we think the gameplay should look and all that. Some of us want more action and fighting, others more planning and hunting. And so on.

[verbal crescent]

But that's the thing, if your properly harassing a stego, then it can't eat, drink, wallow, or rest

[primal folio]

You're saying this to try-hard neckbeards who take 'muh dinosawrrss!' far too seriously. lol Your reasonable take shall fall on deaf ears.

[frosty heron]

Get your own conclusions, you need 315 seconds total pounce time to bleed out Stego if you don't take the heal time in the result, now do the math

[golden coral]

There is that risk yes.

That's a total of 6 minutes, right?

That's.. barely a hunt.

[frosty heron]

Yes, now bucking a full stam Utah off its 5 secs of pounce

[verbal crescent]

Is that 315 seconds of all the pack pouncing at the same time, it 315 seconds of one Utah at a time?

[frosty heron]

More Utahs at once just stacks time, so instead of 5 secs, 5x4 max Utahs pouncing it's 20 seconds

[golden coral]

See, that's the thing. We disagree on how long "long" is. I think 30-60 min is good for a hunt vs a large animal. It means there's a lot of back and forth, a lot time and openings on both sides. It means you can plan it out, have to plan it out, and so on. And I am in favour of longer uptimes for food/water so interactions can last longer, but also higher food intakes to limit groups.

[harsh lark]

The side tail jabs are basically aoe's, they reach far and are quicker than the front and back jabs. Stego isn't something you can go in against without thinking first, and that was before this patch. Also I disagree on the purpose of the bite. There's nothing wrong with mechanics have multiple uses, and the bite had a good role as a way to sneak in some damage if you knew you wouldn't land a jab in time.

[barren shard]

Do you know what attrition hunting is? Like it’s not a walk in the park if you are being attacked and if you barely defend yourself the Utah’s will kill you faster lol

[golden coral]

What? Not sure how you're calculating there.

[frosty heron]

Plans? Nah, Stego has 60 whole minutes to go to shallow water and be safe from pounces

[frosty heron]

Youre talking like I want the Stego dead in 2 minutes, dude are you ever reading what I'm saying?

[dawn falcon]

The only shallow water really is the intersection, and that’s a stretch since Utah can dismount almost to the other side of the shallows
I don’t count the massive canyon cause nobody really goes there

[golden coral]

Think legacy swing then, that's what I mean. The jabs are still precision, reach aside. I mean a full on swing, from tip to head. Then you can have the power jab in a sideways movement. Add a rear "wiggle" for retreats, make the first two only useable standing, and add a bite for small shit. We disagree on the bite obviously, I don't think a stego should even have one, but here we are.

[frosty heron]

Wrong, South River has water deep enought for Utahs to swim and Stegos stay on their feet

[golden coral]

What shallow water? And you imagine it's just going to stay there while food goes down? Or what makes you think it'll even make it to shallow water in the first place? Or what if you can make it believe you gave up so it leaves again?

[harsh lark]

Time doesn't equate to fun. With the numbers you suggest Utahs would literally starve to death before they manage to kill a stego, or have to go drink water every 30 minutes in the middle of a hunt. I think SOME hunts should be long, like a Brachio should definitely be a huge undertaking, but Stego isn't comparable to that.

[dawn falcon]

So then pounce the side opposite to the river only for a couple seconds and dismount. That’s just common sense with hunting

[barren shard]

What’s an acceptable amount of time for you then? how long should an attrition based hunter within the parameters it needs to hunt a full stego take to kill it?

[golden coral]

I did say up the food duration time, did I not? And stego is comparable, like all the other large animals. Not like utahs should ever touch a brachio so... that's a strange comparison.

[frosty heron]

Not possible when the Stego has both sides covered, you don't seem to understand the situation, there's spots on the map where you can literally be safe from pounces

[golden coral]

And most of those spots have no food nearby, from what I know.

[dawn falcon]

“Both sides covered” you mean the jab? Yeah, my point still stands. Dismount.
Also what “safe spots”

If all else doesn’t go well

Try to starve the stego

It’ll have to get up for food

[frosty heron]

You don't understand that if you pounce in the spot I'm mentioned you fall in water and you're a free target?

[harsh lark]

At this point you're gonna reach Ark official PVP levels of gameplay, where people call off work so they can have a single session uninterrupted. You should also consider that the time frames for these interactions need to fit in with however long the gameplay loop will be. My utah shouldn't grow to elder and die of old age before it manages to kill a single stego.

[thin mantle]

Graze go brrrr (which they should have btw, starvation is a really dumb hunting method)

[frosty heron]

Of course let me stay there for a whole hour

[dawn falcon]

Yet it’s the most viable hunting method so far. But anyways

[thin mantle]

Which basically means no hunting methods are viable 😄 Thanks devs for making utahs literally unplayable

[dawn falcon]

And where were those numbers calculated

[cedar shore]

fair

[dawn falcon]

😁

Stego has to get away from the mud and river to graze. So pounce when it’s away from the river. That gives you a couple more seconds does it not?

[golden coral]

I've never played ARK so I can't say much for that comparison either honestly. And I honestly think you're.. exaggerating a bit there with the gameplay loop, you know that right. You think you'll grow to elder over an hour from becoming adult? :p I mean, I get your point, but I just don't think 30-60 min for the most difficult hunts is too much. Not all of that is fighting, it's.. 20 min planning, 20 min stalking, 20 min attacking. Sort of. Not in a direct order neccesarily but you get the idea I think.

[thin mantle]

I don't think I've been in a hunt that lasted more than 15 minutes, so I don't really understand where you're coming from

[verbal crescent]

To add to that I'm fairly certain that there's an animation recovery after you stop grazing, so the stego would be vulnerable for a few seconds

[fallow wagon]

thats a bit too long imo, that's longer than an average match of TF2 I def don't want hunts to be ended quickly, but an hour just for an average hunt on Stegos as a raptor pack feels like too long to me, and I'm the girl known for saying Utahs just shouldn't hunt Stegos lmao

[golden coral]

Meanwhile I was hunted for over 65 min by three carnos as a single stego in older update, back when thagomizer biting was a thing too.

And I've had the patience to sit in a bush as an ambush rex for 70 min at a time, just to wait for a prey to reach the right spot.

[barren shard]

By the time elders are in the options for Utah’s to hunt will be significantly more in line with Utah’s hunting kit stego really isn’t suppose to be for Utah’s to hunt well or effective.

[dawn falcon]

Well Erik does mean 30-60 so it could be in between aswel

[harsh lark]

I can't say I'll know the exact numbers on future growth in the gameplay loop, but if you consider that diets will speed up growth, and Utah is currently 70 minutes default. It's not unfeasible to think you'd be able to complete your gameplay loop as a utah in a single play session, if anything it's definitely something that should be so, otherwise that a lot of pointless time padding.

[golden coral]

That's fair. Which is why just saying "long" or "short" is so difficult here, because we have different points of where that is.

[fallow wagon]

half hour hunts are better i feel, i think that should be closer to the max length though not an hour

[frosty heron]

Sometimes I don't even have that amount of playtime, and still ridiculous you spent that amount of time on a single prey

[thin mantle]

That's fine, but it's not common for hunts to last that long, especially in Evrima

[fallow wagon]

i often lose my prey before then tbh, im not the best at tracking

[thin mantle]

Yeah that's actually enough time to literally starve a carno

[verbal crescent]

If you don't have that amount of playtime then why hunt a stego? Edit: I thought the message you were replying to said thirty minutes, my bad

[golden coral]

I sincerely hope it's not that fast. Honestly, nothing should grow faster than 30-45 min at the very least, with the best diets. And reaching elder should take days. You're here to live as your animal, nothing more or less. If you just want it to be over, what's the point? If you make it that fast, people will also stack perks very quickly.

[golden coral]

It's not, but I think it should be more common. That's my point here. I prefer longer hunts in general. More time to go back and forth, more openings for both sides to make mistakes or capitalize on them. And so on.

[frosty heron]

Oh excuse me, lets just let the animals be and don't give them a threat, of course then most people claims "Stego is bad" how a final boss is a bad animal?

[harsh lark]

Like pachy? Adding more dinos doesn't fix anything if they aren't played. I hope pachy isn't so weak it could be solo'd by current utah, as that just wouldn't be worth playing. Every dino needs a certain degree of versatility so that 90% of its gameplay isn't just searching for another player playing a dino you're allowed to interact with.

[golden coral]

Well, then maybe play a different animal I guess. Not every playable will play the same way. I can't really help you there. I play for 1-3 hours at a time, and of course I do different things depending on what time I have available. So.. you know, it's a bit of a relative and subjective thing.

[frosty heron]

I still thinking anything between 40-60 mins it's a ridiculous amount of time for a Utah pack

[thin mantle]

I don't think many would agree, that is an incredibly long and unnecessary period of time to most.

[frosty heron]

We're not even considering a Stego group in the situation, so imagine 2 Stegos

[verbal crescent]

I'm thinking around thirty minutes is reasonable for a Utah pack to hunt a stego currently

[golden coral]

That's fine. If people prefer it differently then to each their own. I will argue for a game play loop and all that I will enjoy, and everyone else will have to do the same :p

[barren shard]

But that’s just it that’s how the game is stego wasn’t even intended till later as a playable but they had it ready so they added it. There are much more animals more suited for the attrition hunter that is Utah hell even teno is a good viable option. Patience is the name of the game and it’s not unviable to play utah in this manner

[harsh lark]

Adding on unneeded time doesn't add replay-ability or give entertainment longevity. Growth already has the huge flaw of being ridiculously time padded with bigger dinos. A Utahs gameplay loop should absolutely be completed in a single play session if played well.

[frosty heron]

But Stego needs a predator? A real one, not something that will boss fight you for 60 mins

[thin mantle]

The reason this makes no sense is because the starvation timer will kill you before you can take your prey down. Fights can't reasonably last up to an hour, especially when most players enter hunts at 3/4s of there hunger or lower

[fallow wagon]

it will get real predators, just none of our current predators are it

[golden coral]

But it's not unneeded? You're playing to be the critter and act like it, that's your entertainment and replayability. The "loop" is involving nesting, keeping your diet, and if you so choose, elders. With perks, which means it should not be easy to get them, much less survive as them.

[frosty heron]

Well then, so I can say Stego is OP😇

[fallow wagon]

oh yeah it is

[golden coral]

Also it depends on how long a game session is to you?

[frosty heron]

Cool

[fallow wagon]

but i think it should still be balanced as it would be in a fuller ecosystem with actual predators to it

[golden coral]

See that I do not agree with. Utah is the proper predator for stego. Or should be. I just disagree with how easy the hunt should be, or how long it should take.

[fallow wagon]

it's a motherfucking Stegosaurus like cmon

[barren shard]

You can still hunt stegos it’s just gunna take awhile and may get your whole pack killed lol. You can also eat younger stegos as well predation happens at all stages of growth lol

[frosty heron]

Shouldn't be in the game right now imo

[thin mantle]

How long should it take?

[golden coral]

That I agree with!

[fallow wagon]

a pack of Utahs overwhelming Stegos yea I'm fine w/ that, but it's very dangerous and could go south, and definitely isn't gonna be the intended fight in the finish product as Stegosaurus is lacking mechanics

[verbal crescent]

There is also the fact that with how difficult the isle is meant to be not every hunt is gonna be a success

[fallow wagon]

i think everyone agrees w/ that, but hey we have it and they wont just remove it so gotta make do w/ it until its preds are in

[harsh lark]

The ecosystem will never be balanced because it's run by players. People won't play dryo just because it exists. Likewise how do you ensure that once this badass "True stego predator" is added it doesn't completely clog up servers in giant megapacks since it'll just be the obvious superior choice compared to other carnivores?

[golden coral]

I'd say about 5-10 min if the stego more or less clueless, 20-25 on average, 30-40 if the stego is in a good position and knows what it's doing.

[dawn falcon]

Well honestly too late to remove stego now. It’s apart of the roster, and people will throw a bitch fit if it gets removed.

[golden coral]

That's why we have AI, you know that right.

[frosty heron]

If I wanna survive I'll just play Stego and claim myself a skilled player then

When I'm actually a final boss

[barren shard]

60 minutes is a bit of an exaggeration but a 30 minute hunt or slightly longer is reasonable when you are hunting something as strong as stego. Hell it could end faster if the stego is terrible there isn’t a set time to how long a hunt can go but good pack v good stego is overall going to be a long fight regardless

[golden coral]

Eh, I still think stegos should be hunted, just that they're one of the worst choices of large game. But they should worry about a utah pack too.

[thin mantle]

Right, I was getting worried since some people threw out 70 and 60 as decent averages.

[barren shard]

The funniest thing about this whole convo is you don’t have to hunt stegos

[golden coral]

No, that was me giving examples of how long I've hunted/been patient and why I think 10 min is short. :p

[barren shard]

I mean it could very well last that long dependent on skill

[dawn falcon]

I doubt ai would make it any better

[primal dove]

we cant just make scenarios which we dont know will look in the next update and base our balancing on it

[golden coral]

To give some context to me wanting a long hunt.

[dawn falcon]

If you were talking to me

[verbal crescent]

The argument for that was "but if we don't hunt it, who will?"

[golden coral]

AI is to fill in the ecosystem. And no, it was meant for Sino.

[frosty heron]

Then don't jump on other people neck when someone says the playable it's OP because after this patch its probably the playable with the best survivality

[thin mantle]

All of the utahs would've starved to death by then

[barren shard]

It’s such a stupid argument to make tho

[dawn falcon]

Yes, sir! Alright, sir! You’re the boss, sir!

[barren shard]

Or left realizing the hunt wasn’t going anywhere you shouldn’t hunt something till you die anyways

[fallow wagon]

AI system is being made for that exact scenario.

If Stegosaurus populations are lacking, Stegosaurus AI are more likely to spawn. If Stegosaurus's predators are lacking, then they may be more likely to spawn. If Dryosaurus populations are lacking, Dryosaurus AI will spawn. AI System is being designed to fill in the gaps if players aren't filling all the niches there should be.

And then all those Stego predators may struggle to survive due to food availability from diet system. If the server is just clogged with predators, how are they gonna get their diets? AI probably won't provide an entire ecosystem of herbivores, it's a gap filler for certain things it won't form an entire ecosystem. There just won't be enough food to go around for em so they will struggle

[verbal crescent]

I agree, people should think about the decisions they make in the isle and decide if they really want to put the effort into doing it

[golden coral]

That would be amazing if they can get something like that to work!

[thin mantle]

It's the only thing utahs can reliably hunt rn, tenos are a massive threat since utahs got nerfed and carnos are basically out of the question with their alt bite buff. Inertia also makes micro adjustments incredibly difficult now and basically feels like input lag. Stego being a slow moving stationary target is kinda all utahs have besides dryos

[harsh lark]

Just being a dinosaur might entertain you but that wore out for me 4 years ago. The gameplay loop should be doable in a reasonable amount of time, unless you're playing badly as a big slow growing dino. Not to mention if you artificially inflate the games "Length" you make it more favorable to play big dinos that have to worry less about being suddenly one shot and having all their investment wiped away.

[barren shard]

Exactly a lot of people make stupid decisions rather than survival decisions

[fallow wagon]

It's what they've been working towards for a while, I'm very hopeful for it. It likely won't be as good as we hope, but I just hope it works

[lament gale]

you can literally melt stegos with a cool little trick utah has called rmb

[fallow wagon]

not anymore

[lament gale]

it's still fairly easy

[fallow wagon]

eh h

[lament gale]

you just, yknow. have to use your brain for once

[frosty heron]

Facepalm

[thin mantle]

I was gonna respond but you just sound unreasonable

[frosty heron]

Don't respond him

[lament gale]

unreasonable because you have to use your brain to hunt LOL

[frosty heron]

Let's keep it polite

[golden coral]

Well, if you're worn out, then why are you still here? I.. don't really know what you want me to honestly say here Sino. I enjoy the game because I get to be a dinosaur and live it's life, more or less. With whatever shit we're getting here in the future involved. I am a roleplayer, one of Chimichangas old members. I enjoy just.. being alive in the game I guess. I want nesting and elders so there's a reason for me to remain alive however. And to me, fulfilling a gameplay loop, even as a dryo or herrera, in an hour or two or whatever your session is, is just not fulfilling. Okay, I've done it, now what? Now what do I live for, what do I survive for? I trust you can see how that would at least make the game boring to me?

[barren shard]

You can hunt sub tenos sub carnos sub stegos very reliably as Utah why are you trying to hunt a larger more imposing thing if you can’t kill it well. Think of it realistically you hunt the young, old, and sick in nature why wouldn’t you do that in a survival game

[fallow wagon]

Stego bucks you off, or hits you mid-dismount, you just cant deal enough damage to it in time.

A full pack of Utahs can threaten a Stego for sure but a solo Utah has no chance, and small packs might as well just not try unless they are either very skilled or very desperate

[frosty heron]

Go gather a bit of information before you say you can melt a Stego with RMB

[lament gale]

solo utah shouldn't even be thinking about going at a stego for one, and for two it's literally as simple as bleeding it out m8

[golden coral]

Sounds about right, except being able to hit mid-dismount. Isn't that fixed yet?..

[frosty heron]

The dude just skipped the values, 2 Utahs won't do shit on a Stego Lol

[lament gale]

so bring more?

[barren shard]

A lot of y’all aren’t looking at this in a survival aspect

[thin mantle]

But for now we only have the young, and they are exceedingly rare. You can't rely on hunting juvis or subs in this game as a primary foodsource, because your window of opportunity to even hunt said individuals is often 30-60 minutes of their progression.

[lament gale]

this is literally all it boils down to. y'all are mad because you can't do the shitty run in run out tactics pre patch utah could

[frosty heron]

5 Utahs also won't do shit unless you pounce it over 30 times

[lament gale]

good. battle of attrition

[frosty heron]

[fallow wagon]

If you time your swing right before the Utah dismounts, your attack is still active so it jumps right into it.

Personally I feel it shouldn't be "fixed" and should be an intended counter, but majority disagree and they tried to change Pounce with that sentiment but it is still possible, just much much trickier

[barren shard]

Not really especially with the larger animals and just yesterday I found 4-6 stego juvis running around it was easy pickings you just have to move around and stop being stationary

[frosty heron]

More like Battle of Gods from Dragon ball where Stego is Beerus

[thin mantle]

But that's not reliable, most of the players on the server are adults and those are practically immune rn

[lament gale]

ok? what's your point. you are a 450kg animal hunting a 6t animal that you NEED to outendure.

[frosty heron]

For over 30 minutes? No thanks, thats beyond ridiculous

With my full pack

[lament gale]

30 min fights sounds fun, honestly.

[golden coral]

Diets will help with finding and hunting younger ones no doubt. This patch is in preparation for the update as well so there is that.

[frosty heron]

With 5+ Utahs sounds stupid and pretty much confirms how OP Stego is now

If you die to Utahs in that amount of time you're doing something really wrong with your Stego

[golden coral]

I think it should be fixed. The challenge of a pounce should lie in landing it, not getting away. I think it should be more on the stego or whatever to catch the utah pouncing, than catch it dismounting.

[lament gale]

or the utahs actually played right LOL

[thin mantle]

That is very true, something to consider ofcourse, although having a playable that is reliant on the juvi stages of other animals to survive is pretty off putting

[lament gale]

like it's not supposed to be handed on a silver platter for you. you DO have to work for your food

[golden coral]

Just fix the "slotting", if that's doable, and then it'll be challenging to land a proper pounce. Then you can also remove the stun on miss, and just add stamina drain instead.

[lament gale]

that's kind of the whole point of punching up when your small like utah

[thin mantle]

Yeah the failed pounce standup doesn't make any sense

[golden coral]

Never watched that xD

[frosty heron]

Never this much when you have a pack that surpasses the grow time of the Stego

Also in that time an Utah could starve

[dawn falcon]

Pack that surpasses the grow time of a stego..

What

[lament gale]

lmaoo

[frosty heron]

5 Utahs is 5 hours

[stark knoll]

5 utahs can kill a stego in <15 minutes in my experience

[golden coral]

That's more an issue because most things are bigger than the utah. More small stuff, like dryo, herrera, galli/pachy, similar, will obviously help with that. But hunting a young stego or carno/teno should be a good idea.

[dawn falcon]

They all grow in the exact same time..

[lament gale]

it's quite literally an out endure animal. don't play the outendure animal if you don't want to out endure shit

[barren shard]

They really aren’t if you hunt them properly and there are still plenty of young around the map growing at any given tome

[harsh lark]

I enjoy playing as a dinosaur the same as you, that's why I still bother following this game today. But I also like playing good games, and making your game the equivalent of a chinese mobile app store game in terms of time investment demanded isn't how you go about making a fun game. The entire point of perks is so that you're aren't left thinking "Now what?" after you complete your gameplay loop.

If you ask me, it's far more fulfilling to actually reach a "Conclusion" after playing for hours, be rewarded for it, and then get to do it again for another reward. What's boring is just staying at the peak of your strength and existing until something you can't do anything against comes to kill you, like an apex megapack.

[thin mantle]

Ik but it's odd to me that it's special ability is all about latching onto larger targets and tearing their sides apart when they are supposed to target smaller creatures. At that point hunting in a pack becomes a detriment rather than a benefit

[golden coral]

I think it's partially so utahs can't just spam pounce and use it to travel and stuff like they could back in early Evrima. I don't think it's needed for a punishment if they just add stamina drain, and make landing a proper pounce more difficult instead.

[golden coral]

No. You grow at the same time. You have not invested 5 hours like I have. You know that :p

[barren shard]

You should always focus on hunting the young as any predator except for maybe deino since you won’t get any food from it

[lament gale]

^

[barren shard]

Play realistically you don’t have these problems

[lament gale]

it's not hard to just, not hunt stegos if you can't take them lol

deino players had to learn that

[barren shard]

Forreal

[frosty heron]

But you don't have to get the numbers to actually do something, thing I have to

[thin mantle]

In a game where combat between adults is exceedingly common due to growth times that don't last weeks, that seems incredibly unlikely

[lament gale]

dryo, hypsi, other utahs

juvenile animals are always going to be a thing on servers too

[frosty heron]

Here we go with "You don't have to go after Stegos, you can hunt the young"

[thin mantle]

What is the point of playing this animal then? What is the challenge if you're supposed to target things weaker and slower than you?

[lament gale]

in a pack m8

not solo

[barren shard]

It’s not I usually subside off smalls or young animals everyday I play which is usually every day. Like I said people grow every day on every server there are young animals everywhere you just have to look

[frosty heron]

Let's give another reason to Stego players to be the absolute bosses of the server

[golden coral]

And when you have all your perks then? You will at some point reach that too, and I don't think there'll be so many that you can't get them in a week if you play that much/fast. I do get your point, and I agree with the "conclusion" thing, but I'm not sure how fast that should be reached. Maybe we just think in different terms in time here. I find that growing a dryo for 30 min does not yield any experience of .. well, growing that dryo. So to me that's fast. Playing "for hours", please specify. And should this go for all critters then, including apexes. Or how long should my stego gameplay loop be in your eyes?

[lament gale]

i mean, if you can take down a stego in a pack, power to you LMAO

[barren shard]

And there it is it’s not a survival issue it’s a I want to take large prey issue

[lament gale]

like no one is saying you can't it's just, you quite literally don't need to if you don't know how to take it on

[thin mantle]

Huh, what server do you play on? I genuinely want to know since I've lost 6 utahs to starvation since the fix

[dawn falcon]

Oh god I have a feeling people are going to treat troodon the exact same way as Utah is current

[lament gale]

lmaoo

[barren shard]

Most NA servers Teutonic and ibis mostly

[thin mantle]

Ok thx

[golden coral]

Which is still not the same time investment at all :p

[frosty heron]

Wish Troodon comes out being OP

[lament gale]

like i'll admit, a lack of substantial prey for adult utah is troubling but it's not like some options don't exist

[barren shard]

Exactly adapt to the server and you’ll survive

[golden coral]

Im sure it will!

[thin mantle]

Ok change of subject, what do yall think of the new turning

[golden coral]

They are meant to hunt large things in packs. It was more so that you said they were reliant on small animals, and I'm saying diets will help with all of that. I.. think we talked past each other or something here?

[frosty heron]

I can't give opinion as I don't tested it yet. Some people say it's ass

[barren shard]

I’m growing my Utah out today on Teutonic to test the changes more for sure

[lament gale]

i've seen people say hypsis is really bad

[thin mantle]

It really is, it basically feels like input lag to a degree

[frosty heron]

[golden coral]

I think the Inertia might have been a bit overdone on the smaller animals

[frosty heron]

I would remove it for agile creatures, Utah Dryo and Hypsi

[golden coral]

Or that's what I've herd at least

[dawn falcon]

https://youtu.be/ttCrDQsjbmc

The turning seems fine?

[thin mantle]

Teno and utah have this massive direction change delay if you hold A or D longer than .5 seconds, it makes dodging or maneuvering effectively incredibly difficult

[golden coral]

Yeah. This. Apparently even hypsi has massive inertia. I would argue it's the carno that should have it noticably, since well, that's part of how it works. Can't say much for stego because well.. why would you run around like that as one in the first place.. xD

[dawn falcon]

The faster you run, the slower your turn.

[thin mantle]

You can't control the speed of your run, walk trot and sprint

[primal dove]

the faster AND bigger u are the slower u turn imo

[frosty heron]

Jesús Utah looks like a candy for Carnos now

[primal dove]

it is

[dawn falcon]

Mfw you can just click sprint for a second and control it that way. Creating a spazz run. But it shouldn’t be that way

[dawn falcon]

Yeah with the alt bite.

The alt bite is really the reason why Carno can absolutely annihilate Utah. It basically out turns Utah’s turn WITH an attack

[golden coral]

@harsh larkSee this, I agree with. There's not much point in CC if you can just do raw damage.

[thin mantle]

I'm mainly referring to utah, teno, dryo and hypsi. When I talk about how terrible inertia is. Especially teno since it's a quadruped

[golden coral]

CC should be to either finish the fight, or run away. At least part of it.

[dawn falcon]

Teno seems fine though

It can still fuck up carnos

[versed rune]

not to mention carno's alt bite also looks incredibly dumb

[thin mantle]

It has the same issue utah does in regards to turning input.

[dawn falcon]

Tenos inertia is fine. It still annihilated Carno. I’ll say it again

Utah’s is way more agile than teno so it makes more sense Utah has less inertia

If that were a thing though

[thin mantle]

I'm not even talking about it's effectiveness in combat, just travel in general

[harsh lark]

I'm not here to discuss exact values, but as a concept only the very biggest things in the game should take more than a single day of playing to complete. Part of what gives a game replayability is the capacity to get better at it, or have more ways to experiment with it. You don't need to force your players to stay ingame for X hours to make them play that long. If your game is good people will naturally be entertained by the ability to experiement with different play styles via perks, complete the gameplay loop in faster times, or accomplish continually greater feats like hunting difficult targets or surviving hunts stacked against you. Literally making a game longer does not guarantee that people will play it for more time.

[lament gale]

was tenons turn gutted?

people were saying it was a bit op beforehand

[dawn falcon]

It seems completely fine

[lament gale]

hm

[dawn falcon]

Like

It’s turn I think WAS gutted

But in travel it’s kinda slower

Prob inertia

But I don’t see why people are running when traveling when you can just.. trot

[thin mantle]

Cuz it's faster?

[dawn falcon]

Well you’ll drain stam

[lament gale]

waste stam

[dawn falcon]

Your fault

Trot is better cause you are more prepared in case of an actual ambush or fight

[lament gale]

i mean if inertia is making people realize that trotting is better, i guess that's an accidental W kek

[versed rune]

i havent tested teno since the update but ive fought a couple as a carno, and didnt get hit once. i dunno if they were just bad tenos, or the speed nerfs actually helped carno, or what

cause usually i take a couple hits fighting tenos

[dawn falcon]

Someone yesterday said they demolished two carnos as a teno

So idk

Kinda intrigued to see a good teno vs. a good Carno

Now

Without rubberbanding

[versed rune]

i mean im gonna assume the balance is fine then

between those two, anyway

[dawn falcon]

Aye

[lament gale]

it's in a better spot then before for everything

[versed rune]

the charge for carno is actually useful now

[versed rune]

except stego

stego is busted rn and no one can change my mind

[lament gale]

stego is fairing better then before

[dawn falcon]

^

[lament gale]

beforehand you were forced to break terrain to avoid headshot spams

[dawn falcon]

^

[versed rune]

well, yeah i guess its in a better spot. but it cant even be hunted by any of the 3 main predators as far as im aware

cause its turn got buffed too

that animal just needs a complete redo cause its seeming like legacy stego

[golden coral]

That sounds concerningly like BoB with talents, letting you change your play style and shit like that. I hope they're not going down that route here honestly. And it's not so much about making the game longer per say, but giving time to enjoy the game and playstyle and all that. See my dryo example. If time goes by too fast, then it's "Oh okay, back and do it again" which I'm not sure I'm a fan of. To me, survival is not very goal related as a whole, it's literally an ongoing "I am alive and it is good" kind of attitude. And it's fine, I just meant that it's obviously so that we have a different idea of what "long time" means, so it helps to give examples. It is after all, rather relative. But a good survival game to me gives me lots of things to do in the game that I have to worry about, so there's always a focus on remaining alive. It does not require a "loop" in the same way that I think you prefer. If I have to worry about diets, hunting/being hunted, nesting, migrating, and so on, then there's always something to do and you're just playing the game. Then you every now and then try to grow old and get a perk, and that's extra, since it's voluntary, from what I know. And of course the strains... temporary fun as that is.

[lament gale]

it's missing a bunch of core elements ye

[dawn falcon]

Oh it can be hunted by stego only really

It also shouldn’t be hunted by Carno so that’s out of the picture

[lament gale]

don't even think it has a 180 yet, and the ever elusive swing it needs

[dawn falcon]

We just need another predator

[versed rune]

but thats not gonna happen for probably another 7 months

[golden coral]

Well legacy stego is a good start. :p

[lament gale]

i think if it gets a proper swing you could tone back on the turn speed, but for now i think it's a good trade off

[versed rune]

afaik deino cant even touch the thing

[dawn falcon]

Yeah I think it’s back to two deinos to kill a stego

On land

[versed rune]

cant test because theres no sandbox mode 💀 but i havent seen a deino beat a stego yet

[dawn falcon]

2 deinos should be able to kill a stego atleast

[barren shard]

The true predator of stego allo won’t be in for a bit but you really don’t need to worry about it that much since stego has to grow and you can eat them at that stage fairly easily

[dawn falcon]

Also the fact that stegos won’t stop FUCKING 1 CALLING EVERY 5 SECONDS

[versed rune]

but everything has to have some sort of enemy even when full grown

even deino does now

[dawn falcon]

Stego has Utah now

[versed rune]

carnos and maybe utahs can bully it back to the water

idk about utah honestly i assume it does jack shit to deino

[barren shard]

Not really brachi really won’t or any of the sauropods

[versed rune]

giga?

[barren shard]

Not as reliably as you think it’ll be similar to the stego debate we are having now I imagine

[versed rune]

plus sauropods are in a completely different class

[lament gale]

shant

[barren shard]

Not when you compare the argument your having about stego and the predators of it

It’s fairly comparable

[lament gale]

jokes aside they could prob make it so stego is draggable if it's swimming or smth

[barren shard]

I could agree with that

[golden coral]

I know right! Holy hell, I have no idea why the baby stegos do that.

[barren shard]

Definitely make it more grabable in water

[golden coral]

Especially them at least :p

Does a deino actually fear carnos/utahs if it's near water?

[versed rune]

the main reason i assumed stego was added is because its an apex herbi that defends itself against larger apexes better than it does mid tiers. mid tiers are agile enough to dart in and out and land headshots, apexes are fat and slow, and therefore have to risk getting stabbed. not saying apexes shouldnt hunt stegos, but it seemed that the thought process was that allo/carno/cera should be hunting stegos since they're focusing on mid tiers.

[golden coral]

And yes, just make deino be able to grab stegos and other large animals if they're swimming. Then give us proper rivers and cause to cross them.

[versed rune]

utah too because pack hunter

[crystal wharf]

near water no
on land yes

[golden coral]

Stego got added cause AI didn't work out.. :p

[crystal wharf]

stego was added because ai wasnt ready but everything else for stego was
so they just made it a playable

[golden coral]

And I'd honestly make stego good vs large and small, but weak vs mids. And kentro the other way around.

[barren shard]

No only one of those could realistically hunt stego and it’s allo due to its size

[golden coral]

Right. Considering a deino should not be on land, it's still safer than stego then, which is fair enough when diets come out I guess.

[versed rune]

i know the literal reason it was added. but it seems like thats a good gimmick for it??? there isnt a single large herbivore in legacy thats more vulnerable to mid tiers than it is apexes

it makes for an interesting dynamic. i assume that's what they were going for but apparently not.

[lament gale]

thing is it's gimped rn

[barren shard]

Also cera and carno really aren’t mid tiers anymore more like pseudo mids

[crystal wharf]

oh yeah
stego and kentro in particular are weaker to precision attacks from smaller animals

[frosty heron]

Legacy Stego was so busted even 2 Acros couldnt hunt it Lol

[lament gale]

like with no proper swing you're kinda forced to look at other options of "viable-ness", like the quicker turn, lest we get pre patch stego kek

[versed rune]

cera got upsized irl and carno is the same length as allo and nearly as tall. cera and carno are mid tiers.

[barren shard]

They really aren’t in terms of weight

[dawn falcon]

^

[barren shard]

Cera at most will be 1600kg

[dawn falcon]

Mid tiers are like 3 ton and above right

[barren shard]

Carno is 1800kg

Allo is literally 2900 kg

[lament gale]

2t to 4t is the range i'd say

[golden coral]

Legacy stego and acro are progression animals. Balance can not be talked about :p

[lament gale]

so like, carno is scraping the barrel of midtier

[barren shard]

Good rule of thumb mids are imo anything over 2 tons in weight

[dapper frost]

id exclude carno from this tho imo

[frosty heron]

Well right I agree, Acro was also Busted

[lament gale]

up to personal preference at that point

i'd lump carno in with tenon/bary all that but other people wouldn't

[crystal wharf]

above 2 tons, and unable to do jack shit to a para alone

[barren shard]

Yeah I’ve moved carno down to pseudo mid

[versed rune]

does anyone notice that plateo is nearly double the weight of allo in that

[crystal wharf]

plateo is fucked

as an animal
plateo is fucked

[lament gale]

plateo is a thick boy

[hollow canyon]

Plateo simply doesn't have the weaponry to casually defeat most medium carnivores in combat.

[crystal wharf]

it can throw hands with allo and alberto
but gets fucked by thing equal weight with it

[hollow canyon]

Yea, so it seems

[crystal wharf]

then again, equal weight is sucho and acro

[barren shard]

Yeah throw hands plateo

[crystal wharf]

honestly tho, grappler plateo is best plateo

[hollow canyon]

As for Carno and Cerato - the former weighs around 1.8t, Cerato weighs 1.1t or 1.3t realistically. There is a single tooth that might suggest a higher weight approaching 1.6t but... it's just a tooth - on an animal that is known for having relatively the largest teeth among the theropoda.

It might make sense to upsize it to 1.6t if its meant to be fighting Carno and Tenonto but the animal isn't that large irl.

[barren shard]

Yeah realistically I see cera being 1200-1400kg

[versed rune]

it got upsized irl

i believe cera is like 25-30 feet long now

still a manlet tho, shorter than carno and allo

[frosty heron]

But I want 1600 kg Cera because Chonky

[versed rune]

but stockier

[frosty heron]

And now, more weight, more HP

[barren shard]

We could get heavier cera but it’ll most likely be 1200-1400

[hollow canyon]

Cerato is 8m long with the highest estimate, but it's not a chonky animal at all

It has a deep chest and maxilla which causes it to look more robust than it actually is.

[versed rune]

my biggest question here is why does realism suddenly have to apply exactly to cerato and carno but not other things

[golden coral]

How do you mean? Realism in what sense? Sizes? Abilities?

[golden coral]

You'll get that when I get my 8T stego!

[hollow canyon]

This is a skeleton of Cerato from the bird's eye view - it's not a particularly robust animal by any stretch of the imagination.

[frosty heron]

Uh, gimme 9 ton Rex then

[barren shard]

Yeah I’m okay with cera being anywhere 1200-1600kg in weight no more no less

[golden coral]

I think you can get that yes. And 10T trike, remember! :p

[frosty heron]

[versed rune]

but isle's cera is much more muscular so that doesnt matter

much like teno

[golden coral]

@frosty heronI'm perfectly fine with rex being it's maximum if that's the accurate value. They did once upon a time say all the critters should be as large as they could be after all.

[frosty heron]

We're talking about the Isle, anything can happen with the size weight proportions

[golden coral]

So I don't mind you getting your powerful rex. I do wish they'd go with endurance hunting rex

[barren shard]

It really depends on the devs and what they want cera to do

[golden coral]

But apparently that's not popular :p

[barren shard]

Cera was way to big in legacy and making it closer to its irl size or slightly smaller than its max size makes sense for what they want cera to be

[frosty heron]

Honestly I doubt we gonna even get a 9 ton Rex considering the chart, at max we gonna get 8 tons and I'm being optimistic

[golden coral]

Possible. I will trust whoever makes those charts to figure it all out! But I would like an endurance hunter rex, rather than legacy ambush.

[hollow canyon]

The chart doesn't state what we're going to get

[frosty heron]

You know I will always vote for an ambush Rex rather than endurance, Giga fits better the role

[hollow canyon]

It's only what Nova suspects might be the most likely choice

[barren shard]

Exactly

[hollow canyon]

Based on the things that the developers have said

[frosty heron]

It will most likely, Teno there was 1600 kgs and they're you have it

[hollow canyon]

Because that was the highest size estimate for the the Tenonto

[barren shard]

Tho I do mostly agree on what nova suggests tho for a realism and game balance perspective

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto and Carno were rightfully downsized because both of them were way too large

at that rate we would've had a Godzilla-sized Rex and Giga

[barren shard]

Scary thought

[frosty heron]

Both were 2 tons on Update 2

[golden coral]

But that was mostly a visual change that time

[hollow canyon]

It's not so much about what their weight was, it was about how large their models were

Carnotaurus was an Allo-sized animal

[safe anchor]

models sizes yeah

[hollow canyon]

Yea, exactly, they both needed downsized otherwise they would've started the trend of bloating the sizes of animals.

[barren shard]

Yeah model sizes need to be accurate

[safe anchor]

not like 100% accurate but close enough helps

[barren shard]

Agreed

[wide cosmos]

Accurate is very objective in speculative zoology. Even paleontologist don't agree on accurate size of the dinosaurs

I think we are ok with our margins of error for a game

[safe anchor]

yeah but close enough makes the community not cry

[hollow canyon]

There are changes in how large the dinosaurs are thought to be, indeed, however knowing how large each animal is supposed to be if you enlarge a couple of them that are widely known to be smaller than other animals(e.g. Tenonto and Carno) you then end up having to increase the size of animals that are known to be larger than them which creates a positive feedback cycle and makes every large animal unnaturally large.

It's fine to change some of them for the needs of the game but those shouldn't be the animals whose side is widely known.

[crystal stream]

stego is way too fucking strong

[frosty heron]

Nah Stego it's fine, it doesn't 1 shoot Deinos 🙃

[crystal stream]

yeah but nothing can kill it now

[oak wind]

Stego's find

Fine

[crystal stream]

it can take on 3 deinos

[oak wind]

Just need swing

[crystal stream]

it's not fine

[oak wind]

It is

[crystal stream]

no it doesn't

[oak wind]

It just need a predator

[crystal stream]

it has 6k hp

[dawn falcon]

Utah’s and 2 deinos can hunt a stego

[oak wind]

Which the current roster doesn't have

[crystal stream]

it's a pseudo apex

killing apexes

lmfao

[dawn falcon]

Exactly

[oak wind]

It isn't meant to be hunted By current roster

[dawn falcon]

And Deino is a water apex

Not good on land

[crystal stream]

then why buff it?

[oak wind]

Because it was too weak

[crystal stream]

not really

[oak wind]

Not enough hp

[crystal stream]

it could 1v1 deino

good dmg good bleed

it's too good rn

[oak wind]

But Deino isn't meant to 1v1 Stego

[crystal stream]

dude

deino hunted big ass dinos

it could kill a stego

[frosty heron]

Which automatically makes it OP, you know how much time we gonna be without a predator for this thing?

[oak wind]

No

[crystal stream]

especially an isle stego

[dawn falcon]

Oh god

[oak wind]

It didn't hunted that large dinosaurs

[dawn falcon]

Balance > realism

[oak wind]

As it couldn't drag really heavy ones.

But at least, Deino is in a far position.

[crystal stream]

I mean it was very heavy idk

[oak wind]

Yeah

That's its con

Heavy

So, proportionally weaker

Mass is increased way more than force

So bigger you are, stronger you are but not enough to keep the force you had before.

Those are two exponential curbs.

Force being ^2

Weight being ^3

And balanced Deino/Stego is Deino not hunting Stego

[crystal stream]

aye man point is

[oak wind]

Except if it swims

[crystal stream]

stego is boring to play as

it can kill everything

[oak wind]

It has no predators yet

[crystal stream]

its slow

[oak wind]

It kills everything if you come at it.

[crystal stream]

it cant protect other members well

[oak wind]

That's the thing.

Yeah

Then Stego is a success

[dawn falcon]

It can protect other members hella wel wtf

[oak wind]

It is what it is meant to be

[crystal stream]

huge aoe? nah

I've made so many stegos hit eachother

[oak wind]

If you want a different playstyle for large herbivores, then wait for ceratopsians or hadros.

[dawn falcon]

So you’re intentionally stabbing at a creature that’s on your members side.. just let your member defend itself and attack from its other side lol

[crystal stream]

they'll probably buff utah

everyone is crying abt it

[oak wind]

Stego is slow, get you on thagomizers. Either kill you or give you enough bleed to make you decide to go away.

Utah needs bleed pounce buff.

Then it's good

[crystal stream]

bit more hp

[dawn falcon]

It did

[oak wind]

Doesn't need mega ho

Hp

No

[crystal stream]

I don't like how it gets 1 shot by teno tail slam

[oak wind]

Utah's hp are good

[crystal stream]

fighting teno herds as 1 utah is no more

[oak wind]

Tenonto is meant to be hard small counter

[wintry mountain]

Good.

[crystal stream]

especially with the new bleed and dmg

[oak wind]

Good.

[wintry mountain]

That's literally the point

[crystal stream]

it's not good

[oak wind]

It is'

[crystal stream]

just learn how to play as a herd

[dawn falcon]

It is

[crystal stream]

and u wouldn't die

lmfao

[oak wind]

Utah isn't meant to 1v1 it.

[dawn falcon]

How the fuck is it good that a solo Utah can attack a herd lol

[crystal stream]

u seperate 2 tenos

[golden coral]

Utah got it's bleed buff on pounce already. And stego should be bad at defending it's own, at least compared to things like trikes that can do a shieldwall sort of. Or should be able to at least.

[crystal stream]

get 1 low

kill 1

[dawn falcon]

You should be fucked

[crystal stream]

bleed the other

it was easy

[oak wind]

Yeah but actually no

[crystal stream]

now u don't do shit

and u get 1 shot

like nah man

Ima play carno

[true ginkgo]

@fallow wagon yeah some more stam for dryo would be nice if it's struggling to escape utah. I think the speed is fine though. The utah catches it close up via speed, but if it fails to get close enough the dryo escapes using its stam.

[oak wind]

Tenonto is Utah's hard counter and Utah is a pack hunter relying on pounce.

Try to hunt it in groups of 4/5.

[crystal stream]

It's been rare seeing utahs since this patch bro

[oak wind]

They need to pack to be good against medium.

[dawn falcon]

What

[oak wind]

That's all.

[dawn falcon]

I see a lot of Utah’s LOL

[oak wind]

I mean, decent.

[crystal stream]

I don't

[dawn falcon]

Are you not in center

[crystal stream]

it's not fun anymore

[oak wind]

Because Utah isn't meant to be good against medium.

[dawn falcon]

Utah’s hang around the shallows most of the time

[golden coral]

It already got one. Not sure we should buff it even more, right now 2-3 utahs can match a teno or carno, or so I've heard from people testing.

[oak wind]

Oh.

So then it's fine.

D9kt touch Utah.

[true ginkgo]

@thin mantle utah will be fine on its own when prey of a similar tier arrives. It's just struggling now as tenoto, carno, and stego are so much larger and more powerful, while so few play dryo/hispy.

[oak wind]

Wait for it to have more prey items.

Like Stego to have actual predators.

[true ginkgo]

Galli and animals of a similar level are what utah should be soloing.

[crystal stream]

dude utah used to be able to 1v2 tenos but get clapped by carnos

that how it should've stayed imo

[dawn falcon]

It shouldn’t 1v2 tenos

[oak wind]

Utah shouldn't have 1v2 Tenontos.

[dawn falcon]

You realize the weight difference

[crystal stream]

if the tenos were good

they could win ez

like i was very good with teno

[golden coral]

More so that solo utah will be fine then. Packs should still hunt bigger things obviously. It will also help when diets force young tenos and carnos and more importantly, stegos, out in the open.

[crystal stream]

or am i should say

[oak wind]

Tenonto is a small game counter.

[thin mantle]

Woulda been a fantastic time to nerf them when those dinos were in the game instead of before

[dawn falcon]

Utah is like 450KG and teno is 1.6kg. Imagine 2 tenos. That’s a lot of weight

[golden coral]

Then you can hunt said young animals on your own, or in pairs/trios if it's a smaller stego for example.

[crystal stream]

it's a video game lmfao

[oak wind]

And?

[true ginkgo]

Teno should be 2 vs 1 utah. Not two tenos for a single utah.

Tenoto is slower, weighs over 3x as much, and takes twice as long to grow.

[oak wind]

Balance.

[dawn falcon]

And yet weight is being used for balance

My friend

[crystal stream]

good utah players should be rewarded

[dawn falcon]

And they do

[oak wind]

No'

[dawn falcon]

By hunting

[crystal stream]

hellll no

[golden coral]

Good any player should be rewarded.

[oak wind]

A lone Utah is rewarded by Pachy and such preys '

A pack is rewarded by Tenonto.

[dawn falcon]

A lone Utah shouldn’t be rewarded when it’s a pack hunter

Unless

[crystal stream]

good utah players rn are rewarded for landing a pounce and not getting bucked off in 1 second just to do minimal bleed

[dawn falcon]

It’s small creatures

[crystal stream]

that's utah right now

[true ginkgo]

How the hell is it anyones idea of balance if a lone utah kills two tenotos?

[dawn falcon]

It doesn’t take 1 second LOL

[oak wind]

Yeah.

Pounce is a too for huge preys.

[crystal stream]

you know what I mean?

[oak wind]

Being an endurance mechanic.

[dawn falcon]

God these people blow things out of proportion now

Utah just needs a turn buff and that’s it

[crystal stream]

point is pounce is at the worst state it's ever been

[dawn falcon]

It’s fine

[golden coral]

It got more bleed. Teno and carno are in danger now, and most likely so is stego, just over a longer time.

[oak wind]

Like, Utah is either a solo same size animals, or a pack hunter of very large ones.

Mediums are a bad match-up for it/them.

[crystal stream]

stego op

[golden coral]

Inertia needs a bit of rework for most of the smalls I think. That should help them all out in turning.

[wintry mountain]

It's almost like the point is to force players into using up their stamina as you slowly build up bleed

[oak wind]

Stego is op because no predators.

[wintry mountain]

[oak wind]

Thanks Nova.

[wintry mountain]

Stego isn't even op, a good utah pack can do it, just takes time

Two deinos can do it

[oak wind]

Imagine.

[dawn falcon]

Though I think bucking needs a bit less stamina drain for the pounce. Like a tiny bit.

[oak wind]

Not taking half a hour or a hour.

[dawn falcon]

Mainly for stego

[oak wind]

To hunt down something.

[golden coral]

:D

[crystal stream]

fuck nah its head is tiny

[dawn falcon]

But that’s just me

[crystal stream]

deino jaws are massive

[oak wind]

Imagine hunts being easy.

[crystal stream]

before it was fine

[wintry mountain]

Utah could do it pre bleed buff even, not to say it didn't need the buff

[dawn falcon]

Oh god this isn’t realism

[crystal stream]

it was like a 50/50 if deino alt bit

now it's dog shit lol

[oak wind]

If Deino headshots it does 1000 damages on 6000 hp Stego.

[dawn falcon]

It was a 20/80 for Deino if it alt bit

[crystal stream]

yeah but stego still wins with the short tail jab

it's annoying af

[oak wind]

Stun it.

[crystal stream]

this isn't how u do game balancing

[oak wind]

It is lmao.

[crystal stream]

well

they already fucked up first of all lmfao

adding stego

[oak wind]

Deino isn't meant to be Stego hunter.

[wintry mountain]

No it is, deino isn't a rex

[crystal stream]

when it has no preds

[dawn falcon]

You’re asking them to really fuck up

[wintry mountain]

It shouldn't be coming onto Land and brawling

Get punished.

[oak wind]

[wintry mountain]

If you change anything it's the lunge, that has always been the go to

[crystal stream]

anyway I just got done hunting deinos as solo carno

[golden coral]

I don't know. I imagine you pounce, bait, bleed. Rinse and repeat. Don't just let the stego use all stamina for bucking and nothing else, and it will make a difference, especially after you've gotten a few pounces in.

[crystal stream]

that's good balance iig

[oak wind]

"Utah doesn't take 10 minutes to take Don Stego NOOO"

"It isn't huntable on land by Deinoooooos"

"Utah isn't good against mid tier it sucks!!"

All of that

[crystal stream]

they made it real easy with carnos new alt bite lol

and deinos alt bite draining stam

[oak wind]

Is actually unbalanced.

[crystal stream]

I mean it was easy before but shit

[oak wind]

Old Carno alt sucked.

So, it deserved a buff.

[wintry mountain]

I'd agree current alt is on the line of being too much

It needed a buff

[crystal stream]

I've been dropping deinos at shallows as carno

[wintry mountain]

But this may have been overboard

[crystal stream]

it's so satisfying seeing the bodies jump when u get the last hit lmao

[golden coral]

Agreed. Old carno alt was mostly bad all the way around. Front or slightly sideways was okay.

It was just the turn around that went in slow motion :p

[wintry mountain]

I'd tone down the speed just a smidgen personally

Nothing too harsh

[crystal stream]

nah it's fine

[golden coral]

Yeah. At least the frontal/sideways, where you can and should bite normally.

[crystal stream]

It's a small game counter

and it does it well now

[golden coral]

Let's not make carno alt the new deino alt :p

[golden coral]

It would still be fine I think.

[crystal stream]

they most likely won't change it

[dawn falcon]

They will

[crystal stream]

I hope they buff utah

[dawn falcon]

I’m sure of it

[crystal stream]

cause rn it's dog shit

[dawn falcon]

A lot of people already said they want an alt bite nerf

Atleast in isle discussion

[crystal stream]

I mean it still doesn't bite faster than normal bite

[dawn falcon]

I’d say the alt bite should be in between pre-patch and current alt bite

[crystal stream]

so it's fine to me

it's not like deino's front alt

[dawn falcon]

It’s better than bite pretty much

[crystal stream]

not really

same damage right

[golden coral]

You sure on that? Cause on the vid I saw, it looked like alt was faster than normal honestly, at least as fast. And no, alt has more damage.

[dawn falcon]

Slightly more I think

[crystal stream]

well makes sense ig

[crystal wharf]

at most they'll make utah turn a little faster
they arent going to buff it in any other way to my knowledge, at least not for a while

[crystal stream]

puts its whole body into 1 bite

[dawn falcon]

Yeah. It just needs a turn buff. That’s it.

[crystal stream]

needs more bleed

[dawn falcon]

It’s fine

[crystal stream]

slightly more hp

[crystal wharf]

it doesnt

[crystal wharf]

doesnt need this either

[dawn falcon]

You’re supposed to rack up bleed as a pack

Not solo

[crystal stream]

it has sickle claws

kinda its whole thing

[dawn falcon]

So

[crystal wharf]

who gives a shit

[crystal stream]

well aren't u in a good mood

[crystal wharf]

you are playing a pack animal

[crystal stream]

lmao

[crystal wharf]

use your pack to hunt LARGE game

[crystal stream]

bro plays this game religiously

[dawn falcon]

Sorry that we aren’t supporting your Utah fetus

Gday

[crystal stream]

you don't have to agree

there's hella ppl complaining abt utah

[crystal wharf]

ah, the old "doesnt agree with me so he's obviously an isle shill"

[crystal wharf]

and those people are going to keep whining, their complaint will fall on deaf ears

[crystal stream]

I don't even know wtf u just said

[dawn falcon]

And hella people saying it’s good lol

[crystal stream]

stego mains

[dawn falcon]

Hm yes. People who think it’s a good balance are stego mains

Okay Utah main

[crystal stream]

it was honestly funny seeing them cry about how they were forced to put their heads in rocks

[crystal wharf]

literally everybody but utah mains are saying the nerfs are good

and even some utah mains

[crystal stream]

who else was complaining about utah seriously

[crystal wharf]

the only people screaming about how utah is ruined are the pro utah mains that thought soloing a stego was balance

[dawn falcon]

I’ve played more Utah out of every creature cause I love the team work aspect

[golden coral]

@crystal streamSo basically, utah mains complain and stego mains are happy. You know, maybe we should try the whole roster split thing. Stegos on one server and utahs on another, there we go! Both parties happy!

[dawn falcon]

Check balance feedback 😁

[crystal stream]

talking about stego mains complaining about utah being op last update

they were the only ones saying shit lol

[golden coral]

And now utah mains are saying stego is OP. Around we go xD

[crystal wharf]

literally everybody but hardcore utah mains were complaining that utah was overtuned all to hell

[dawn falcon]

So lasts update not the current update. Gotcha

[crystal stream]

not carnos

not tenos

[dawn falcon]

Almost like I wasn’t talking about that

[crystal stream]

they are good against utah

[crystal wharf]

they were

[crystal wharf]

they were

[crystal stream]

then they were bad

how tf u let a utah kill u as a teno LMAO

u have 4 attacks

cmon now

[crystal wharf]

just because they could kill a utah doesnt mean utah wasnt overtuned you donut

[dawn falcon]

4 attacks? Doesn’t mean you can hit them with the attacks

[crystal wharf]

oh here comes another utah main

[crystal stream]

then ur dog

[frosty heron]

Your amount of respect when devating surprises me

[dawn falcon]

Okay bub. Says the person struggling as a Utah rn LOL

[golden coral]

I'm honestly starting to think you can't make both utah and stego/other large animal mains happy at the same time. While utah is designed as a large game hunter at least. It's always going to be a conflict on how easy/hard it should be for either side to fight the other and no side is going to want to be the one in the "bad" position.

[frosty heron]

See? You're just a douchebag nobody should be devating with you

[crystal stream]

I don't play utah anymore

I go carno

bc they actually buffed carno

[dawn falcon]

My point still stands

[crystal stream]

it still kills deinos

[dawn falcon]

You struggle as Utah

[crystal stream]

100% game balance

[crystal wharf]

nobody asked for you to speak, go back to crying about utah being ruined elsewhere

[crystal stream]

yeah they nerfed me bro

I can't kill 3 tenos at once anymore

[frosty heron]

I can speak if I fucking want and that's why this is public feedback you "DoNuT"

[golden coral]

It should be three utahs vs one teno, two if they're good and the teno is bad. Not the other way around.

[crystal stream]

there wasn't much u could do when u could loop around their tails and get them to slam then bite their head

or keep running around them and look for openings

idk

I'm good at teno carno and utah

but alot of utah players were dog shit

[wide cosmos]

"I wan my solo utah to solo stegos like before the update" that's literally what people think Utah was before the update

[crystal stream]

using pounce

like imagine using pounce

lmao

[crystal stream]

I knew it was getting nerfed but not this hard

it gets 1 shot by tenos and carnos

[wide cosmos]

Bork claims he plays as Utah and he can solo anything he wants, it was soo overpowered, true apex

[dawn falcon]

With the charge

[crystal stream]

the largest dromaeosaurid of all time now being 1 shot by carnos with realistically weak bite force and didn't even charge

GG

[dawn falcon]

And the tail slam

Those are the only two attacks that one shot Utah

Literally can just dodge those lmao

[crystal stream]

deino 1 shots now

and stego

whole roster lmfao

[dawn falcon]

And what are they?

What are they?

Can you answer that?

Nah

APEXES

[crystal stream]

stego isn't apex

[dawn falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-spongebob-squarepants-wow-mindblown-gif-13169052

[dawn falcon]

Yes it is lmao

[crystal stream]

nah

[dawn falcon]

It’s weight is enough for it to be an apex

[crystal stream]

pusedo-apex

psuedo

[dawn falcon]

I’ll have to disagree with that one

I follow the size chart

[crystal stream]

it doesn't matter lmfao

[golden coral]

Apex is just a community term anyway xD

[dawn falcon]

^

[golden coral]

Doesn't mean anything to the Devs

[wide cosmos]

I'm still confused how herbies can be apexes

[golden coral]

Because we're not using the term Apex correctly

And if we did, I don't think we'd have any apex in the game at all

[crystal stream]

highest damage

[wide cosmos]

Deino is an apex, there's nothing in game that can hunt adult deino

[oak wind]

Stegosaurus is an animal able to keep itself alive from large animals.

[crystal stream]

carno

carno hunts deino easy af

aswell as stego

[oak wind]

Can defend itself against predators.

Deino needs more water holes, swamps, deltas and shit like that.

[wide cosmos]

Stego is large herd animal

[crystal stream]

deino is forced to fight shit on land bc of the lack of water

or food

unless u wanna kill other deinos

if u a dick like that

[wide cosmos]

Only time carno can hunt deino is if deino allows it

[crystal stream]

LOL u should see me play

[dawn falcon]

Kill other deinos means you’re a dick even though Deino is confirmed to benefit from eating other deinos

Gg no re

[oak wind]

Punishing cannibalism is hike tbh.

[crystal stream]

not in the game yet

[oak wind]

But some animals should not be encouraged to.

Imo spinosaurids.

[dawn falcon]

I like the cannibalism punishments

[oak wind]

Then all theropods may be cannibals.

[dawn falcon]

Though hoping you won’t be punished for eating your own species as a last resort

[crystal stream]

draining deino stam is so easy

[oak wind]

Because why the fuck not. They are food items.

[crystal stream]

and then u just ride them

[true ginkgo]

It's why I think 'large tier' or 'psuedo large' is better.

As it applies to herbis and carnis.

[wide cosmos]

It's not gonna benefit its just not gonna get negative effects from cannibalism

[crystal stream]

and spam alt bite for more dmg n speed

[dawn falcon]

True

[crystal stream]

for carno anyway

[true ginkgo]

When people say 'herbi apex' they basically mean herbi near the size of the largest carnivores.

[dawn falcon]

A Deino can just lunge you and you’re fucked lmao

[golden coral]

No. No no no no no. Stego is not a herd animal.