balance-feedback-discussion

[solemn sequoia]

pretty much

[indigo vigil]

Might as well at this point LOL

[oak wind]

I mean. Utah hunting very large animals is fine depending of the kind.

[golden coral]

I would have said 2-3 is a good balance, at least that was I think, the original idea

[solemn sequoia]

20 alt bites to head to kill, 4 uniterupted pounces to kill

[golden coral]

I need to play utah with you guys and see this shit :p

[oak wind]

But against medium Utah is fucked.

[solemn sequoia]

bucking is there so can't do that

[indigo vigil]

it wont work with this update, bucking will end all of the utahs with no stam and the tenonto will 1 shot them with a good tailslam

[indigo vigil]

plz do

[golden coral]

Technically teno/carno would be on the lower end of what utah should hunt, if we go by size?

You play on any eu server?

Granted, we'll need the game back to a playable state first, but then I'd be happy to join and see how it goes

[indigo vigil]

I would say it should hunt tenonto, but carno do a good thinking about

[oak wind]

Utah : similar size and way bigger.

[primal dove]

i think actually the smaller things get the dangerous they get, remember 1 utah pack should be counted as 1 apex

[oak wind]

Medium and smalls are eh to hunt.

[golden coral]

I agree. I meant lower end as in "this is where utah starts to get good". Just like how carno hunting a teno is on the "upper end" of what carnos should go for.

[primal dove]

smalls are there to survive for a time where u are alone and searching for a pack imo

[oak wind]

When I mean way bigger, it possibly is large bodied Hadrosaurs and such preys.

[indigo vigil]

We are admin on a server, wanna join us in vc? ill pm u a discord to join for a moment before kicking since its for friends only

[oak wind]

Then mediums are a bad idea.

To attack'

[indigo vigil]

it should start to be good against a tenonto when theres 2 utahs, but rn it really aint like that

[primal dove]

mediums should be a threat to a pack since they have enough mobility and have a good ambush potential, carno for example

he rams 1 utah runs away goes for some bites and just keeps doing that

[oak wind]

@shrewd storm Quetz is still the largest and keeps an unique niche.

[shrewd storm]

Na they found a bigger birb

[indigo vigil]

cant get a pack, too little food/ all utahs gotta cannibalise to survive

[shrewd storm]

Like this week

In Australia

[oak wind]

They didn't. They found a very large in Australia though.

It still is smaller than Quetz.

[golden coral]

I'd say 2 minimum, 3 for a good chance. But you get what I mean right, that it's the "starting point" for a pack hunt, and one of the more difficult ones. Just like teno/carno is on the upper end for what a carno/pair should hunt. They can do it, but it's difficult.

[shrewd storm]

U sure thought I saw it was bigger

[primal dove]

actually, im fine with that, not knowing if the next utah pack or solo utahis ur key to victory or just a big threat

[oak wind]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/697900992003571844/874360001202880522/Thapunngaka_shawi.png

Yes I am

[shrewd storm]

Well damn

Alr

Welp

[lament flare]

Gotta love how people reject feedback not even for them and don't say at all what they dislike about it so that I can refine it.
Amazing community 😉

[sinful cove]

it would be unfair for an herbivore if a carnivore attacks their nest and then they are punished for defeating it with the body there

[shrewd storm]

Still a big bird tho

[sinful cove]

as a server option i could see it working for some of those servers with strict rules though, it would still be pretty unfair to nesting herbivores

[primal dove]

but it will be so that you´ll have to search for resources to built ur nest so you´ll be leaving ur babies alone most of the time

[sinful cove]

that is when building a nest

you dont have babies and then build a nest after

[primal dove]

ohh wait xD mb

idk we´ll have to see how nesting works

[sinful cove]

when you are nesting already you would be susceptable to griefing by juvie body droppers or just unlucky to kill an attacker near your nest

[slim dragon]

I didn't see your suggestion before, now I just downvoted it and I'm gonna explain why : encourages mass-killing. Good, you killed a herbi from a herd. Now, the rest of them are weaker. Why not finish them off ? Since every single one you kill will make the others even weaker

[primal dove]

i mean u can carry dead hatches in ur mouth as an adult so that might help u securing kills

[indigo vigil]

ayo anyone ever taken into account 1,300 is a humans bite force

and like

utahs 55

so in real life

its toddler strengh

[sinful cove]

balance

[primal dove]

yes, but you are taking more risks while u dont have to

[sinful cove]

balance > real life stats

[slim dragon]

That's not actual N
Values are fucked up

[indigo vigil]

lol ik

[sinful cove]

stats would be so bloated if they gave animals irl values with hp to match

[slim dragon]

Also using N for bite damage is kinda cringe

[slim dragon]

Still encourages you to do it for no real reason

[primal dove]

smart packs will be happy with their kill, dumb ones will fall into a bloodlust

i mean they can go after them if they´re still hungry

[tight pecan]

Did someone say bloodlust? I love bloodlust!

[sinful cove]

players just like to go on kill sprees, especially with low stakes rn it will just continue to happen and that's how it is

[slim dragon]

Or smart packs will profit from the opportunity to kill everyone else
And dumb packs will manage since their prey are all weakened

[primal dove]

u should mainly target 1 in a group

it still is a risk u might not even have to go for

[sinful cove]

if you have the opportunity and ability to wipe a whole opposing group, why not do it?

[slim dragon]

That suggestion just sounds like an attempt to enforce something that was made on unofficial servers to make the game easier and less survival than it should be

[sinful cove]

if dinos can somehow be balanced in a way that discourages escessive brawling it would be better than throwing exploitable debuffs around

[primal dove]

ohh wait so u are saying everyone still can fight after they´ve taken down a herdmember?

yea then just wipe them out sure

[slim dragon]

Yeah why would you prevent people from fighting
Why not let herbies avenge their fallen comrade ?

[lament flare]

Everyone around the body has very decreased damage.

[primal dove]

why should they? They are just running into bigger risk losing even more

[lament flare]

The reason for the damage debuff for both carnivores and herbivores is to prevent anyone else from the hours they spent on their dinosaur from being lost

[sinful cove]

what if the body that drops is inconvenient to the predators' diets? what if some dryo runs in and purposely gets hit to debuff everyone to save their maia friend?

[primal dove]

if 1 of them dies why shouldnt all of them then?

[lament flare]

The smaller the body the less damage debuff it does

[slim dragon]

If there was a fight, that means the herbs can't run away from the carnis in that case
So they still can't run away, and that also means they should have the upper hand against the carnis in combat

[lament flare]

It would be an inconvenience but the carnivores would have to deal with that or move on
The herbivores can move outside of the damage debuff range and heal up

[slim dragon]

Why implement something so artificial for... I don't even know what purpose ?

[lament flare]

Kos.

[slim dragon]

KOS is not an issue

[lament flare]

Yeah, it is.

[sinful cove]

not really

[primal dove]

ok so if the pack isnt satisfied with 1 kill then the herd has to fight yea, but while the pack is eating the herd can flee or heal up

i mean have u seen how long it takes now to eat as a carnivore?

[oak wind]

Killing another animal becoming hard isn't a bad thing

[primal dove]

takes like 2 minutes to get ur stomach full

[oak wind]

It requires more time

And ambush Carno can be now efficient and be one of those who need to strike one time and finish the job

[primal dove]

u can heal bleed or reg some stam back in that time while the pack is still low on stam eventually

[slim dragon]

I should make that into my profile picture or smth

[lament flare]

Attacking with multiple bodies down isn't an issue
Alright

[slim dragon]

yep

[lament flare]

Thanks for being toxic my dude

Have a good day

[slim dragon]

Np, you just bought the wrong game

[primal dove]

you should start trying to accept the opinion of other ppl

but lets stay on topic

[slim dragon]

I can accept it, but I genuinely don't want that kind of mechanic to make it into the game

[wide cosmos]

Solo carno should not be able to do that to a pack, if we are talking pack of carnos vs pack of utahs then yeah I agree. But not solo medium decimating Utah pack.

[hollow canyon]

KoS isn't an issue at all.

[primal dove]

i didnt say it should be able to take down a pack but definitely be a threat to it if the pack doesnt know how to play against it

it shouldnt even have the chance to completely wipe a pack that´d be just stupid imo

[wide cosmos]

I just don't see it that way, solo carno should be afraid to engage a pack same as for solo utah/carno try to attack a herd. Unfortunately Utah is basically a compy now. Forced to feed of the scraps and get bullied by every dino

[primal dove]

then we´d have the same issue as in legacy: Sticky Utah takes on 5 Carnos

he is clean tho ngl

im fine with a solo utah being prey to smth else, but people always interpret that every utah player thinks a solo utah should be able to kill a rex

[sinful cove]

assriding is hardly clean it's pretty shameless lol

[wide cosmos]

When I say Utah I have a pack in mind

[primal dove]

i was talking about the carno pack fights

not the assriding screw that

[wide cosmos]

Solo Utah should be bound to hunting small prey. But now even packs don't pose any threat, they just die off too easily

[hard bridge]

they need too decrease the use of stam on the raptors

[jolly osprey]

I always thought of Utah’s “balance” being dependent on numbers, which should be a given.

1 Utah = small prey.

2 Utahs = A solo Tenanto and Carno.

3 Utahs = Similar to 2, but now with a much higher success rate.

4 Utahs = Solo Stego and a Deino whose dumb enough to be far inland for some reason.

[hard bridge]

but the devs hate raptors they want their precious hebrivores too over power anything

[wide cosmos]

That's how it should be, but now everything that's bigger than Utah one shots it

[golden coral]

Increase numbers with 50% and we're good I think.

Since max pack is 8, you have to fill it up.

[jolly osprey]

I’m just really hoping this nerf was to prepare for a future patch. I’m praying that although things are pretty crappy, it’s only temporary.

[jolly osprey]

True.

[wide cosmos]

So maybe the luckily 1 or 2 survivors will be able to eat from the dead carno or teno body?

[golden coral]

3 utahs = teno/carno. 4-5, better chance. 6 = solo stego, with 7-8 adding to the chance.

1-2 for a smaller stego/teno/carno and similar, or for catching the elusive dryos xD

[primal dove]

if u play uncoordinated and go for risky things then yes

[golden coral]

No? I meant that if the max number is 8, then you should have to run almost full packs for the large prey.

[primal dove]

ohh, mb understood that wrong

[frank owl]

Raptor gameplay has a high skill ceiling. The better you are, the bigger things you can go after. It should never be about straight up numbers. It should be about skilled groups ACTUALLY working together. Not just grouping.

[golden coral]

It should be about numbers, absolutely. Numbers + skill and tactics of course

[wide cosmos]

I'm just joking. But it is that bad that coordinating won't help if you get killed by 1-2 bites from carno.

[frank owl]

I think more stam or less stamina drain for sprint for raptors would be super beneficial to this

[golden coral]

Even if you had 8 utahs, if you are uncoordinated and and just.. bumrushes the stego, no shit you will die..

[wide cosmos]

And I do play with coordinated Utah packs on VC

[frank owl]

That's my point Erik

If you're a shit player with no skill, you're gonna lose no matter how many numbers you have. It's about skill, as it should be

[golden coral]

But 6-7 well coordinated utahs should be a serious threat to a stego. I just think it should have to be about 5-6 to start with, since the max is 8.

[frank owl]

Need more awesome players that do that

[primal dove]

rn utah is just so bad with it stats that there is no skill ceiling, that´s the problem

[wide cosmos]

Theres a threshold where even skill won't help you, and I think we reached it with this patch

[primal dove]

the buffs shouldnt make it OP but at least viable

[golden coral]

I'm not so sure it's so bad as people make it out to be, but we'll see.

[primal dove]

you´ve hit the nail on the head

[golden coral]

Let them fix performance, and lets get used to the new stats, and we'll see how it goes.

[frank owl]

Why is raptor not viable rn in your opinion? I didn't read up, or maybe I missed it

[primal dove]

i dont understand why they actually nerfed the global biteforce so badly, how should u be able to pounce things when they stay close to trees/water

[golden coral]

I'm pretty sure utahs will be just fine vs stego, with carno and teno being harder to fight.

[wide cosmos]

I'm ok with all the changes that's been made, but some of them were not though out. Like reducing speed for all dinos. It affect some dinos like Utah alot more then others, and on top of that its hp got cut in half, so whee before you could survive 1 hit now you just drop dead

[primal dove]

bc of how poor it´s stats are rn, it nearly gets 1 shot by anything but cant bring up enough dmg even in a pack

[jolly osprey]

Dryo is another one that got nerfed a bit too much, like Utah.

[primal dove]

i´d be fine if the utah had a high damage pool in a pack but if ur biteforce gets nerfed an ppl just bump their heads into trees or stay close to water, how are u going to pounce/kill things then?

[wide cosmos]

I think biggest problem is HP got cut in half along with rebalancing damage and speed.

[primal dove]

i dont understand the global speed nerf

[jolly osprey]

Dryo certainly did need it, but not to such a degree.

[primal dove]

i always thought Evrima being a fast and quick PvP game with a lot of action

[golden coral]

Global speed nerf because too fast things make performance go bad.

[golden coral]

Yeah but no. IT's a survival horror ecosystem pvpve.

[wide cosmos]

It's still fast enough we just lost about 10% of the speed to make dino animations look more realistic

[golden coral]

Action should probably be terrifying rather than anything else

But the biggest reason for speed nerfs would be the performance

[frank owl]

They stated it's to help with animations and lag.
"Some animals were being pushed to their absolute limit with their speeds, resulting in animations looking bad visually and forcing smaller characters to be increased in speed unnecessarily as well"

[golden coral]

I don't think the game can handle things running at carno speed

[frank owl]

Ptera speed made the map lag too

Load time was nuts

[primal dove]

k, u definitely got a point there

[golden coral]

I think this is part of the reason. They have to find the "fastest" possible but reasonable speed, and then work downwards from there.

[primal dove]

it´s a pain in the ass playing with rubberbands and low fps

[golden coral]

If you remember how it looked when Evrima came out and utahs were fast

All the teleporting, which got a lot better when speeds went down

So I do think the global speed nerf is neccesary, if carno had to be nerfed cause "too fast for game", then the rest had to follow

[true ginkgo]

Love the speed nerf. Will help the animations seem natural.

[primal dove]

ok but how about an global acceleration buff? for kiting /or baiting bites and players?

[true ginkgo]

A lot easier on the animators trying to make things run faster than cars on the highway.

[primal dove]

yea if i start thinking about the first release of Evrima, the utahs just were too quick it looked way too unnatural

[sonic flame]

The speeds coming down universally shouldn’t have changed too much matchup wise since it was universal

Like Utah and Teno are the same speeds relative to each other, etc

[golden coral]

Possible. Though I'd argue that there's more than just baiting/kiting to use, and I'd like to see people use more ambushing and other tricks. So I'd say, let's see if the performance is good, and how people adjust with the new speeds and values.

[sonic flame]

Iirc Dryo got hit harder, and Stego/Hypsi werent changed

[true ginkgo]

Also means creatures which may not have been able to be animated fast enough to survive might have a chance now.

Like lolmagy

[alpine plover]

My guess is that the diet system is gonna give speed buffs to people who follow their diet the right way. If they kept the previous speeds and added speed buffs from diets on top of that we'd have the Flash running around on the island, so they went with nerfing speeds across the board to prepare for whatever diets are gonna bring

Actually that could be the case for the damage nerfs as well

[golden coral]

I still hope they don't go all the way back to former speeds, I'm pretty sure there's some performance issues with how fast carno was

But ramping up speeds a little might work out, just not quite that much

[past gulch]

That is not right, if I understand it correctly. Tenos run speed isn´t important for it, it´s a defensive creature and mostly stays stationary in fights and just turns (same with stego)....but Utah now takes a split second longer to get in and out for bites (which aren´t really viable anymore due to the bite nerfs :/). And as I understood the attackspeeds and animations for attacks from Teno are still as fast as before....so it does make a difference...and since the attacks now hit you even harder then before, I don´t really get where you´re coming from. We will test this more properly as soon as the rubberbands are fixed but I can already tell you, it will make a difference.

correct me if I´m wrong here.

[sonic flame]

You arent wrong per say, hit and run animals are hit harder by changes to speed than animals that would already play defensively, however that also then plays into special abilities, like how pounce allows you to latch on and avoid being hit for a time, and the new dismount gives you a better shot at escape

So its less that the speed outright nerfing them and more that their kit needs to take the new playstyle into account

[past gulch]

bucking still negates all that. Sorry to say, but having all your stam taken from you in 2 seconds while the pounced animal barely uses any stam to do it and in the aftermath you being unable to escape and unable to apply dangerous amounts of bleed just doesn´t work.

[indigo vigil]

I agree 100% with circleoflife

[sonic flame]

Bucking and Pounce still need some serious TLC, its not a particularly engaging mechanic

Hold RMB and let go vs press and hold E

[indigo vigil]

Pouncing is suicide

End of story

And ur bite does about 2% of most enemies youll find

[sonic flame]

Against some animals yes, others no

[indigo vigil]

which do at least 50% ur hp

1 tap

[indigo vigil]

what animals are a no?..

the bloody hypsie.bird.dryo

who plays that

[past gulch]

it´s bad. and needs some serious overthinking. Utah will be just useless now. With bites not doing shit anymore. It´s not very good balancing in my eyes.

[primal dove]

an oro main lol

[sonic flame]

Stegosaurus is the animal I would think of, much harder to catch a Utah that is dismounting now

[indigo vigil]

Oro mains licking their lips towards the utah main option

[sonic flame]

Teno and Carno have the perfect tools to clap a Utah, since pounce isnt geared to animals their size

[wide cosmos]

I think they made a mistake and gave Utah stats of the Compy

[indigo vigil]

Still can right as it dismounts

[past gulch]

Teno is supposed to be the main prey for packs tho....

[true ginkgo]

I definitely think you should be able to disengage quickly after a successful pounce.

[indigo vigil]

Pounce is not its main attack

[sonic flame]

Pounce is meant to gank small animals with Pin, and slowly weaken significantly larger targets

[indigo vigil]

If there was no bucking, maybe

I liked it much more when only a rub of a tree could get you off

[primal dove]

the funny pre-historic donkey against 6 bloodthirsty groundhawks (missclicked meant Circles message above)

[sonic flame]

At this point not so much anymore

[past gulch]

for me it looks like there was a lot of number crunching involved and less playing and actual testing if it´s viable. Again I haven´t played much of it but it dictates that it will be bad rn.

[indigo vigil]

And as they latch off get 1 tapped, or 2 tapped if they are looking for the lowest prey

unless it is a baby that somehow doesnt get away

RN, a tenonto claw on the body is 50%

[sonic flame]

If they are still getting got for dismounting then the dismount still needs tweaking

[indigo vigil]

and a claw is a good 180 range dmg

[stuck nova]

Idont know why they have increase the maximum healt of the stego, he was already overpowered.

[golden coral]

it was not, by any means. Stego was nowhere near what it should be.

[true ginkgo]

The prehistoric donkey is over 3x their mass and has claws as long as a persons forearm.

Tenoto shouldn't be utah fodder.

[primal dove]

stego was fine imo

[jolly osprey]

It’s fitting if Apex terrestrial predators were in.

[sonic flame]

Yeah Stego wasnt overpowered since it was getting solod by Utahraptors pretty easily

[stuck nova]

Bruh, are you actually playing the game ??

[jolly osprey]

But buffing Stego as of now wasn’t entirely needed.

[indigo vigil]

fucking WHERE??

[rustic void]

^

[golden coral]

Yes.

[sonic flame]

Unfortunately way more common than you would think

[indigo vigil]

PROOF.

[golden coral]

@indigo vigilI've seen it happen.

[indigo vigil]

Show it if so

[primal dove]

now imagine u have 2 tons jumping on ur back,kicking feetlong claws into ur ribs with all the power the´ve got. But screw realism I just want to have fun in this game

[sonic flame]

Well I am on mobile atm, so forgive me for not wanting to dig through a shit ton of isle videos right now

[golden coral]

The fact that it could even happen, with a stego that's not AFK, is bad enough.

[indigo vigil]

it cannot do that shit

what weed you smoking jesus

[golden coral]

It could.

[jolly osprey]

Stego needed to be weaker before this patch so things could actually hunt it. Stego, as of now, should’ve happened when we got at least Rex or Spino.

[true ginkgo]

Stego was absolutely not near where it should be previosly. It was a near apex level animal getting hunted by a few smalls.

The issue is there is nothing in game except deino which 'should' be hunting stego currently. Which leaves it in the awkward spot of being near unkillable till things like allo and acro turn up.

[indigo vigil]

Could if it was in a pack and not heavily debuffed lol, but it cannot rn

[stuck nova]

The balance was perfect before this shitty update

[golden coral]

It was not, by any means.

[sonic flame]

Rn no

[rustic void]

It's even worse now.

[indigo vigil]

yeah, maybe a few tweks on utahs dmg for me though but least I can LIVE with it

[true ginkgo]

2 tons worth of utah should definitely be destroying tenoto. That's 4 or 5 of them.

Imo around 3 should be a good number to take a tenoto.

[stuck nova]

You have to play the game before talking here

[golden coral]

I do and I have. Most likely more than you have.

[stuck nova]

lol

[golden coral]

If you honestly thought stego was good, then you don't comprehend what a stego is or should be.

[primal dove]

size doesnt mean everything

[fathom obsidian]

I think 3 utahs can still take a teno no?

[indigo vigil]

Erik we brought u into a vc where we tested this stuff, all of the utahs failed 90% of the time, rare bits were when the tenonto was only using 1 attack lol

[true ginkgo]

If 3 utahs should kill stego, how many allos should kill a stego? How many utahs to kill an allo.

A few utahs killing stego basically doesn't leave room for the mids.

[wide cosmos]

What kind of AI steggo gets soloed by a Utah. I took on packs of utahs as a steggo

[stuck nova]

Its look like the developper want people to use cannibalism between deino with this new update

[golden coral]

So? That has nothing to do with how much I know about the game or anything?

[jolly osprey]

Like I was saying earlier, two Utahs should definitely be able to take on a solo Tenanto. Three Utahs practically secures the kill, assuming both sides are skilled.

[golden coral]

Not sure, but probably.

[golden coral]

Bad utahs rather than bad stego.

[past gulch]

It was in no way shape or form easy to solo a stego as utah, it involved a lot of bad gameplay on the stegos part, a lot of skill and timing on the utahs and still could be easily avoided by just using the terrain. And everytime you had to go in you risked your life as utah.

[primal folio]

it's an extinct animal KEKW

[indigo vigil]

You wanna do again and 1v1 me as a utah when im steg? lol

[golden coral]

Great argument. xD

[primal dove]

how are the mids going to kill stegos tho? Utah legit evolved to kill Apex dinos in packs. I mean obviously that comes with a price, low health, high costs of food, poor defense overall

[golden coral]

No because I'm not a good utah and now things have obviously changed. Is that relevant for how it worked or that good utahs could do it, surprisingly easy at that?

[stuck nova]

I dont know what was the point of removing some fish spawning area ??

[indigo vigil]

So you have no proof people can 1v1 a steg as utah

Since what u are saying is like saying anyone can do it

[golden coral]

Do I have a video on hand right now? No. But I've seen it, and I know people who have done it. Hell I know people who have succesfully fought stego with dryos before the patch.

[wide cosmos]

They were decent utahs, trying to bait and go for head shots, since pouncing steggo was a suicide. But I just baited them and got plenty of tail decorations

[indigo vigil]

Erik so if it ONCE happened , the utahs op?

[primal dove]

not every utah can kill a stego SOLO

[indigo vigil]

Not at all

[fathom obsidian]

utah used to be able to solo a stego with bites, but honestly it took good utah vs bad stego

[solemn sequoia]

its almost impossible now, it takes all of a utahs stamina to kill a stego with all bites

[indigo vigil]

I only know 1 dude who did that, which was against a 70% grown steg that didnt know how to buck

[golden coral]

It happened more than once. And even so, it should not happen at all, pretty much. Nothing has been done to stego that makes it more difficult to kill now than before. Nor to utah for that matter. Except that you'll have a harder time to bite the head and kill that way.

[fathom obsidian]

i know plenty and i i did it sometimes myself

[golden coral]

But it's perhaps less so that utah was OP and more that stego was UP.

[knotty patrol]

stegos dying to utah packs were very rare

[fathom obsidian]

but thats not the point, the point is utah bleed is less than it was before this patch

and the bite is puny lol

[knotty patrol]

seen just one pack achieve that and even then they lost plenty

[wide cosmos]

I have a feeling you haven't played much as a Utah

[indigo vigil]

What weed are yall smoking

[primal dove]

it just had way too many ways to defend itself

[golden coral]

Correct. But I've played a lot as teno and stego.

[stuck nova]

Erik never played i think

[golden coral]

But I have played utah a decent amount even so.

[golden coral]

Do you have any solid arguments or are you just going to be ... less intelligent?

[fathom obsidian]

erik answer me in dms

[knotty patrol]

however i've killed a stego in a pack of 3 carnos

[true ginkgo]

Irl utah was larger than the one in game, slow moving, and had an extremely heavy and chonky build. It also didn't encounter carnivores larger than itself, and the animals it hunted were various iguanodonts. Almost all of which were smaller and much less well armed than a stegosaurus.

[past gulch]

I´ve seen it happen, we done it a few times, but it always involved very bad individuals. Still takes a long time in which a lot can happen (it calling it´s lungs out to attract danger, finding mates/friends or reaching trees or rocks to put its head in)

[true ginkgo]

We have a small skinny JP clone which can move fast enough to mess with the timeline. Not the heavily built and slow animal which brought down iguanadonts.

[wide cosmos]

Well IRL is also just a speculation and this is a game. Why we keep comparing it to IRL

[knotty patrol]

imo right now the steg hp buff wasn't necessary

[stuck nova]

its been 10 min you saying the Stego was not overpowered before, how can i argument with that xDDDD

[primal dove]

tell me exactly what u mean with heavy chonkly slow moving compared to other Raptors, yes

[past gulch]

Irl deons´t matter, it´s a meele pvp game and should be fun based not based on realsim ^^

[golden coral]

It wasn't. You could provide arguments against it instead of questioning my playtime.

[true ginkgo]

Someone used irl to justify something about utah to me, so I used irl to argue back.

[primal dove]

well fun fact tarbosaurus also lived in murica

[golden coral]

But as you know, it's also not a fighting game, its not a "melee pvp" game as much as you'd like it to be.

[past gulch]

😛

[primal dove]

but again let´s just screw realism

[knotty patrol]

once more mids would be added, like cerato then by all means stego should get a hp buff

[indigo vigil]

Explain how it isnt one

[fathom obsidian]

tbf stego had some problems before this patch, like taking HS damage thru its tail

[primal dove]

how exactly will ceratos take down stegos if carnos already struggle with it?

[true ginkgo]

https://preview.redd.it/vlqs58nioi611.png?width=977&format=png&auto=webp&s=269ab8ece0840542721585def45773a8c61bf50e

[past gulch]

it´s still boring for you (the stego) and me (the utah) if we can´t engage eachother and feel threatended by eachother, right?

[golden coral]

The game is designed to be a survival horror pvpve. It's not designed to be a fighting pvp-only game.

That is the current vision for the game and the goal

[primal dove]

as i said compared to other raptors

[golden coral]

Not sure how much better I can explain that

[indigo vigil]

Oh well booohoo Im sorry you aren't getting everyone playing your little story with you

[golden coral]

It is yes. And you know as well as I that I have at no point said utahs should not be able to hunt stegos.

[indigo vigil]

as long as there is a way to damage your enemy, itll be a pvp game in a way

[golden coral]

What story? I'm explaining to you what the game vision is supposed to be.

[sonic flame]

I mean Ideally the Utahraptor could use its pounce to threaten the Stego and the Stego could use buck to threaten a Utah that decides to pounce, the problem is that pounce and buck are pretty basic and leave little room for skill

[true ginkgo]

There are numerous other raptors on there. Most irl raptors are more lightly built than utah. And also didn't tackle prey nearly as large.

[indigo vigil]

Do you see them succeeding at it though?

[knotty patrol]

just saying that now it wasn't necessary for stego hp buff, but carnos didnt really struggle against them before the update, now i've no clue on this matchup

[golden coral]

Yes. There is pvp, that's part of it. Just like pve. But survival above it all. And so on.

[indigo vigil]

survival is pvp

[golden coral]

Not yet, but they're working on it I think.

[golden coral]

No, it's not.

[indigo vigil]

how so

[primal dove]

compared to it´s habitants it was waaaay more agile and that´s what´s evolution about: adapting

[golden coral]

Survival is literally about remaining alive. Nothing more or less. You're playing survival even if it's singleplayer :p

[sonic flame]

But PvP == Fighting game, otherwise games like Rust are Fighting games

[golden coral]

Balance mechanic! :p

[fathom obsidian]

anyone interested in some utah pounce dmg compare between old and new patch? i got some screenshot in a doc ready

[indigo vigil]

it is-

[primal dove]

but pls can we just screw this whole realism thing

[indigo vigil]

yeah and to remain alive you gotta pvp

[past gulch]

^

[sonic flame]

So you would look at a fighting game like say, Street Fighter or Tekken and you would say The Isle is in the same genre?

[past gulch]

and Utahs are supposed to be pack hunters taking on bigger stuff then they are.

[primal dove]

y

[past gulch]

And if teno is out of the picture it leaves only stego

[indigo vigil]

yeah it is, just instead of humans its creatures

[primal dove]

bigger doesnt always mean stronger

[golden coral]

I don't know. But even so, I never said pvp wasn't part of this. I said it's not a fighting game and it's balanced for survival and an ecosystem.

[primal dove]

"stronger"

[fathom obsidian]

i guess not then ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[golden coral]

Teno shouldn't be out of the picture though.

[true ginkgo]

Utah should be hunting in small groups to kill things like tenoto. Larger groups to bring down animals like para. And solo to kill animals like galli.

To take on an apex or psuedo apex animal which is dedicated to fighting rather than fleeing, it should require an extremely large group.

[past gulch]

Nova said so tho.

which is ridicoulus, imo.

[sonic flame]

In what way exact is a 2d traditional fighting game comperable to an open world survival game

[past gulch]

but it´s reality rn

[sonic flame]

Its less that you cant do it and more than Teno has a lot of tools that hard counter Utahs kit

[primal dove]

para is nearly the size of a teno, also such a teno might not even fill a whole packs hunger

[sonic flame]

Plus between the kicks and claws you can threaten a lot of space allowing you to take multiple opponents

[indigo vigil]

the fuck u mean

[fathom obsidian]

fells like everyone has bar hypsi and dryo ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[indigo vigil]

who plays 2d , when did I say isle is 2d

[past gulch]

I remeber a time when 2 utahs were supposed to be challenging a teno and have a chance against it. Now it´s so fast and strong and has so much CC that it´s barely viable to attack it with 3 or more.

so why did this change so drastically?

[golden coral]

If I recall correctly, it was 2 utahs = 60/40 for the teno, 3 utahs = 70/30 to the utahs.

[true ginkgo]

Utah is 450kg, tenoto is 1600kg.....

Para is almost 7000kg.

[sonic flame]

I described some fighting games, like Street Fighter which is a 2d traditional fighter, and The Isle, you said the games were in the same genre, both being Fighting Games

[indigo vigil]

yeah but not the same genre of 2d

[oak wind]

I've heard

Bullshit

[primal dove]

we dont have para ingame yet so i wonder where u have the weight from

[oak wind]

Tenonto being Para size?

I mean

If we go for both maximal

Tenonto is 1.6 tons and Para 11 tons.

[sonic flame]

Yeah but to be a fighting game you have to have a lot of distinctive things that The Isle just doesn’t have because its not a fighting game, its a different genre

[primal dove]

are u taking the legacy weight?

[indigo vigil]

what dont it have if so?

[oak wind]

Real life ones.

[true ginkgo]

In game weights are pretty close to irl weights. Sometimes they're a tiny bit off, but usually pretty dead on.

Irl para is almost 7000kg, with mentions of a 10,000kg para existing.

[oak wind]

But Tenonto is same weight as its irl counterpart.

[true ginkgo]

Legacy weights were this weird health/weight/damage formula which didn't come close to irl weights.

Evrima weights all sit extremely close to irl weights.

[sonic flame]

Teno was adjusted to have its 50/50 with Carno, which led to Utah being unable to threaten it as easily

[sonic flame]

Well for one a total lack of rounds or points to determine matches

[primal dove]

ok but still if they can go for bigger things which might even steal their prey, why shouldnt they go for it

[oak wind]

?

[true ginkgo]

What steal utahs prey? para?

[primal dove]

tarbosaurus

[knotty patrol]

but there's no tarbo in isle...

[oak wind]

No Tarbo in The Isle

||yet||

[primal dove]

we are talking about irl,arent we?

[oak wind]

But then no one lived with each other's

[true ginkgo]

Tarbo lived 60 million years apart from utah.

[sonic flame]

Tarbo and Utah are separated by millions of years and are on different landmasses

[oak wind]

Same for Para

Para being way later

[past gulch]

So the weirdly powerful "small game hunter" is the reason why utahs have their main prey item taken from them? Cool story ^^

[oak wind]

Thing is that Utah doesn't have them yet.

[past gulch]

something is going wrong there.

[oak wind]

There is only Utah and Dryo'

Wait for things like Ava, Galli and such.

[primal dove]

they´ve hunted sauropods tho

[true ginkgo]

utah should be more equal to things on its level like galli and pachy. Not animals over 3x its mass, which take longer to grow, and are far slower.

[primal dove]

search it up on wiki

[fathom obsidian]

im gonna drop some utah pounce dmg comparison, ignore if not interested: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aLS73FBeE1ASEquj-y1UGfP9l8bXbq0Qnqr8D4QH228/edit

[swift beacon]

Shadow, I put this in the nicest way I can, but what the fuck are you on

[true ginkgo]

Tenoto was never meant to be a utah equal. They just happened to come the same patch.

[primal dove]

listen when we talk about utah we ALWAYS talk about the pack and not a single utah or some utahs

[sonic flame]

I mean pretty much yeah, Utahs ideal prey items simply arent in game due to its matchup spread favoring extremely large targets that cannot easily punish a dismount, or targets small enough to pin. Teno was made to be able to deal with Carno, which being so powerful led to Teno in turn outstripping Utah while Utahs kit gave it a weakness to animals in that size range anyway

[past gulch]

I disagree strongly, a single utah should´t engage a teno, yes. But It still stays the most suited prey animal for utahs ingame rn, concerning it´s weight and size. Or do you want them to hunt stegos?

[oak wind]

Juveniles, dwarfs even but not the large ones.

It's environment surely had another giant predator '

For the animals living with it'

[knotty patrol]

okay we all need to chill and analyze the supposed playstyle of each dino

• carno is an ambush predator, charging their prey and finishing while it's cc'd
• utahs should be pack hunters that bleed out their prey with pounces
• teno is a herbi brawler that can deal some serious crowd control

[primal dove]

search it up on wiki to stay official

[golden coral]

I kind of think teno is on the "starting point" for utahs honestly. With the larger they are, the better the prey for the pack. Honestly, yes, a stego should be "easier" for the utahs than a teno or carno.

[primal dove]

i have it on german so I cant really translate it

[golden coral]

Strange as that may sound :p

[swift beacon]

I shan't chill but yes, thank you Sorceryyy

[oak wind]

I don't really trust wiki, I look for other people reading papers and new stuffs.

[lament cloak]

ah yes, wiki, the most reliable source of information

[alpine plover]

Didn’t teno and utah already fill those roles properly though? Except for Carno brawler

[oak wind]

If ever, Utah was barely ab'e to jump and pounce on large animals.

[true ginkgo]

It's the most suited thing for a small group of two or three. It isn't the most suited thing solo.

The sad truth is the most suited animals for solo utahs to prey on are simply not here yet. As evrima development is so early, there are gaps, and it will hurt until they're filled.

[primal dove]

wikipedia the official stuff

[oak wind]

I prefer to ask on paleo discords.

Wikipedia can be good but not that trustful because anyone can edit it.

For good and bad.

[jolly osprey]

Can’t Wikipedia be edited by practically anyone?

[primal dove]

https://youtu.be/8tFfnfJrhfA

[true ginkgo]

wikipedia is good for finding sources. It should never be used as a source in itself.

google scholar is useful.

[knotty patrol]

this is just my experience, but utahs rarely pounced my teno

[primal dove]

that´s the guy who named the Utahraptor

[swift beacon]

Shadow what the fuck is that

[primal dove]

a video

[past gulch]

it didn´t hurt before carno was made into a brawler and not a small game hunter with the ability to destroy either teno or utah easily. It´s a balancing issue not a "utahs simply deosn´t have prey yet so suck it up and wait" issue, imo.

[fathom obsidian]

that video is golden

[alpine plover]

I think nerfing Utah was misguided, as it gives even more dominance to Carnos, which in turn makes Tenos and other herbis more oppressed because of less competition

[swift beacon]

What a helpful observation.

[oak wind]

But Carno dominates Utah and should

[swift beacon]

Explain it to me like I'm 5, I'm currently out and can't watch it

[oak wind]

Until other carnivores arrive to open more niches

[primal dove]

a 5 year old wouldnt understand

[swift beacon]

Then neither do you

Children can be smart

[primal dove]

i certainly understand it

[compact veldt]

ok how about a 6 year old

[swift beacon]

The sentiment is to summarize the damn thing

[true ginkgo]

Yeah I do agree that it's weird that carno isn't following its description. It's definitely not acting as a small game hunter right now.

[primal dove]

i mean if u didnt even watched it u cant understand it 5head

[alpine plover]

Young deinos, dryos, hypsi’s, and tenos are gonna have a more rough time with the Carno megapacks now

[swift beacon]

I would love to watch it, main issue is that I'm currently in a position where I cannot

[primal dove]

g r e a t then dont complain about me not understanding it

[swift beacon]

So, quick summary would help tremendously if it's to remain relevant to current conversation

Since you have watched it and claim to understand it, surely you can summarize what the video is about, no?

[primal dove]

summarizing 30 minutes of vod is that easy ya know

[swift beacon]

That's grand. It would be greatly appreciated if you would do so.

[sonic flame]

Basically Shadow your example isnt going to mean anything if Shot isnt able to actually view it

[swift beacon]

It ain't like it's a word document I can open and quickly read after all

[oak wind]

I'm waiting for Carno pin.

[alpine plover]

Start talking about stuff that's relevant

[swift beacon]

Carno pin would be pretty neat

[swift beacon]

Granted with current values I think that Herrera would be paste

[oak wind]

One shot

Herrera being 175hp

But doing crazy damages for its size

Jaguar gameplay

[swift beacon]

🤷

[oak wind]

Or some kind of feline

A Herrera that jumps on a Utah from a tree with momentum, weight and a good bite may be able to take it down or at least make it in a bad position.

Damages being increased by the height tho.

[primal dove]

basically as it says in the title the guys reacts to ingame designs of the Utahraptor and either says it´s accurate to scientific researches or not, however he also kinda explains how the Utahraptor killed things and why biologically it made sense to have such an apex fighting terror in the deserts of utah

i mean u complained about me not using official sources and then came to paleontologists so ig that works out

[oak wind]

Thing is that we have material of larger animals that lived with Utahraptor that may be Allosauroids.

[true ginkgo]

huh didn't know that. I checked not long ago and utah was the largest carnivore there known.

[oak wind]

But it only isn't described or really attributed to something

[fathom obsidian]

yep, that some quality passive aggressive feedback from a QA member, at least they are open on what they think so hey we got some insight

[indigo vigil]

wheat what weed you smoking

[alpine plover]

QA members huh

The game did not play like that prior

Utahs got clapped so quickly from 3 shotting Carnos, Tenos tail slamming, and desync Stegos and Deinos warping space hitboxes

And the issue with Stego has never been a stat issue, it's always been a fundamental issue in the design of it's mechanics
The jab could not effectively repel attackers for how much it was worth

[swift beacon]

From what I can tell, at this point if you're getting nailed by things as Utah it's usually either your own fault or connection issues

Issue with Stego has been partially a stat one

[golden coral]

Agreed. I will say I don't think desync is an argument for balance, since that's a game issue all of it's own.

[indigo vigil]

teno can rn 1 tap utah
carno can 2 tap
steg 1 tap
deino 1 tap
ptera - fly away
hypsie - not here
dryo - not to be seen

babys? in bloody bushes hiding ((bush simulator but fancy))

[swift beacon]

Being unable to hit things reliably is an issue if you have less health to work with to make things reliable

[solemn sequoia]

utah: pounces only to be bucked off or gets fidget spinnered to death

[true ginkgo]

I like health being linked to a creatures weight. I'm sure damage and speed will get adjusted as needed over time.

[indigo vigil]

Shot'em do you get that utah does like 3% max to a tenonto

[swift beacon]

One? Yes.

[indigo vigil]

2?

oh wow 6

[swift beacon]

Alright, and what of the bleed?

[indigo vigil]

tenonto 2 claws them both

[alpine plover]

Anyone who legit understands the issues in Evrima are usually not stat issues, its design fundamentals
You'd think a QA member who's actively participating within balance and stress testing should get it

[indigo vigil]

ohhh whooppsieeee

[solemn sequoia]

utah gets bucked off, bleed not on

[indigo vigil]

they heal it off bc ur dead

[alpine plover]

Most players here would agree that a dino being shit is "it's attack/viability isn't too good"
rather than them saying "its needs way more/less stat x"

[swift beacon]

I'm gonna throw a lil' somethin' y'all threw around before the patch

Git gud

[solemn sequoia]

and even with bleed you'd need 3 full stam pounces for tenonto and carno... now add bucking

[indigo vigil]

Play some utah bro

[swift beacon]

I have

[indigo vigil]

not just sit around in a pond

[solemn sequoia]

no you havent

[swift beacon]

I have done nothing but grow chicken nuggets for the past 6 hours

[indigo vigil]

6 hours, means u have died a lot

[swift beacon]

Only once actually

And it was the stupidest death because I fell lmao

[indigo vigil]

shit so u have been growing for like 3 hours or sum

means u playing like steg or deino

to be still growing

[swift beacon]

I have dedication to knowledge

[indigo vigil]

knovledg, sit on rock

profit

utah - op

[swift beacon]

Did you know that Utah goes faster than adult from 50% to 75%

[golden coral]

I would say stats can absolutely be an issue, and stego was rather.. fragile, even for a stego. But yes, mostly it seems to be how mechanics work rather than specific stats.

[indigo vigil]

stegos head - a coconut sized skull

Ill remind you

[solemn sequoia]

also stego 1 taps every non apex

[swift beacon]

As it should with the size ranges present

[solemn sequoia]

if you die to a utah its cause the utah is good or you let it

[indigo vigil]

give the stegos neck a good axe to chop at it, its dead

[alpine plover]

Stats can definitely be overtuned ofc, but the main ones have always been, when pounce got u a death sentence as a Utah, Stegos struggling against juvies, Carnos chomping Stego tail tips, Deino beyblade, and Helpless Hypsi

The majority of the issues were within the design itself, or bugs with them

[swift beacon]

I am still confused as to why making HP equal a stat present in game is getting such an outrage

[indigo vigil]

I just want old utah back man

[alpine plover]

Because balance simply

[cedar shore]

@abstract dawn I Dont understand how you feel like nerfing utah was a good idea. Utahraptor was BARELY viable before this update and now noone plays it anymore because there is no point, its useless rn

[swift beacon]

Ah, yes, "balance"

[alpine plover]

Yes

[fathom obsidian]

i agree with you, but utah was fine before this patch, not "barely viable" makes your statement lose credibility tbh

[swift beacon]

Because a chunk of meat with claws and teeth that weighs 500 kg should be harder to chew to death than a chunk of meat with bone shards sticking out of it

And also weighs 500 kg

[cedar shore]

I mean, pouncing was just a death sentence before now

[indigo vigil]

I kinda agree, but yeah before this update too, it was still pretty weak, 2 tapped by carno

[solemn sequoia]

it still is

[golden coral]

Yep. And tail-tanking. Which in turn caused the dismount issue. And the thagomizer thing... How that went through... But you're correct. A lot of the important issues at least are less about stats and more mechanics and otherwise.

[fathom obsidian]

yeah i know, but utah could pin thigs up to 830kg wich was making up for it

[alpine plover]

Realism is always a bad argument for design and it will stay that way

[cedar shore]

There is no dino thats 1000k atm exept subs n stuff

[indigo vigil]

ill drink to that

[swift beacon]

It's not even realism, it's just logic

[indigo vigil]

so bad

fucking cheers

[cedar shore]

This

[indigo vigil]

Nacen

I beg of you

[swift beacon]

If you've got 500 kg of meat you should put 500 HP of effort into getting it

[indigo vigil]

copy and paste that into balance feedback

[dawn falcon]

Carnos in a good place though

[golden coral]

It's less realism and more all the stats I'd say.

[cedar shore]

bet

[dawn falcon]

It’s the intended role is it not

[fathom obsidian]

btw im with you utah got overnerfed pretty hard, its bleed its hugely nerfed especially

[dawn falcon]

A small game hunter cheetah

Woah seiza

Hi

[golden coral]

We don't have to argue realism to have a coherent balance formula and similar

[swift beacon]

From what I can tell, it's getting pushed to dunk smalls and brawl with its own size

[alpine plover]

Feel free too to use it if you'd like

[dawn falcon]

Yeah, a small game hunter

Teno is small game

[indigo vigil]

got a cooldown :(((

[dawn falcon]

Everything below it is aswell

Carno can hunt them really well so far

[swift beacon]

Well by that logic then yes it's small hunter

[alpine plover]

Carno wasn't really struggling prior this update either

[dawn falcon]

So it reached its intended role. It’s balanced, atleast imo

[swift beacon]

Most tend to put 1000 kg to 2000 kg in a different class

[dawn falcon]

But it was also overtuned

[alpine plover]

It was to an extant

[swift beacon]

From what I can tell it leans heavily into charge to do damage now

[indigo vigil]

https://youtu.be/Aljb_M0uY7s

hmmmmm

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[golden coral]

I don't think teno is "small game"?

[indigo vigil]

lets compare the WEIGHT :DDDD

[solemn sequoia]

hold up blue I'll one up you

[golden coral]

It's almost as big as carno, that's on the upper end of what a carno should hunt if it's a "small game hunter"

[alpine plover]

its in the "pseudo mid" as the kids call it

[minor cipher]

Imo utah was pretty overtuned. Right now it feels fine

[dawn falcon]

^

[alpine plover]

I disagree

[past gulch]

[indigo vigil]

o wow

[dawn falcon]

I think a bunch of creatures were overtuned. Carno, Utah, and teno specifically

[swift beacon]

1200 kg for giraffe, 150 kg Lions

[indigo vigil]

O WOWW

[dawn falcon]

Stego was undertuned

[alpine plover]

Missing a pounce against most of the roster was a death sentence, any significant hit made it out of commission or straight up hitting the utah back the spawn screen

[minor cipher]

stego was totally undertuned

[golden coral]

I don't think .. that's a thing officially. That's more of a community thing, like apex and other terms. Tenno is anyway at least almost as heavy/big as carno, and if carno is meant to be small game hunter, I would say anything approaching it's own weight is at the upper end of what it should take on.

[swift beacon]

A giraffe also has... long as fuck legs and often outruns lions

Hell, it often tramples them too

[indigo vigil]

"omagurd wat is diz utah should only be able to take on carno max as a pack, utah too oop wat is dis!?!? why did I die to that stupid utah pack what the fuckkkk1/1/1/"

[swift beacon]

Ah, I have no problems with Utahs taking on the likes of Stego weight in packs

[ebon kraken]

What’s your point tho. Utah still can bring down large animals in packs. Just not solo

[indigo vigil]

try it

try it rn, grow a utah pack of like 7

[swift beacon]

The main problem arises when the hunting strategies that Utahs use is very specifically not ideal to use against the thing with a goddamn flail on its arse

[indigo vigil]

go get a steg

I believe in u trust me

50 bucks on it

[swift beacon]

You're at least one Utah short there

[indigo vigil]

okay, 12

[minor cipher]

neither do I, but all they had to do was nip the head a few times.. it didn't feel like they had to work for their large kill. Now it feels like it takes more skill, which in my opinion is fun.

[fathom obsidian]

guys utah is fine, you guys just need to learn to play, cant kill a 15% deino as adult utah? thats cuz you are bad guys get better /s

[jolly osprey]

I feel the current Stego was needed for later, not now. Pre-patch Steg was pretty good for the current roster.

[ebon kraken]

I have. You bleed them out. You can’t really now because of the rubberbanding but that’s being fixed.

[dawn falcon]

Don’t understand how you can’t kill a 15% Deino though

[indigo vigil]

what weed you smoking?

[swift beacon]

12 should absolutely be able to attrition a Stego if they play well

[cedar shore]

Idk what you are smoking if you think utah is in a good spot rn

[indigo vigil]

"should" key word

[minor cipher]

None at all actually! It's my opinion, yes?

[golden coral]

This. It seems like this discussion alternates between "utahs shouldnt hunt anything" and "utahs should do it without any issue" :p

[abstract dawn]

Gamers. Please. Just, take a look. And look at the weights.

[alpine plover]

I think the real issues lied on the mechanics of the other playables rather than utah itself
Like Hypsi being helpless, Pounce pinning what it should not pin, or Stego's defenses not being properly implemented
The roster for the most part did fine interacting with Utah(except Godspeed Dryo)

[swift beacon]

The main problem is, again, Stego has a flail on its arse

[indigo vigil]

Opinion, yes, but it should be able to be changed if its proven false

[dawn falcon]

Hm yes I noticed spino is now red. New skin confirmed

[indigo vigil]

wheat, give me a moment

[ebon kraken]

Utahs packs can still take on large things. It’s just more difficult which makes things more fun and balanced

[golden coral]

7-8 utahs should be plenty enough to challenge a good stego, 5-6 if you're really good and the stego is below average.

[minor cipher]

Nothing has proven my opinion false. If I have an opinion I shouldn't have to change or sway it just because someone else differs from me.

[winged sierra]

if you can't take a stego with 12 utahs you genuinely need to find better utahs

[swift beacon]

Stego is probably the worst asset they could have chosen to show that Utah is meant to hunt big game

[dawn falcon]

How

[alpine plover]

What was Utah's niche again?
Pack hunters killing larger dangerous prey?

[dawn falcon]

What other “big game” would you prefer

[indigo vigil]

https://youtu.be/Aljb_M0uY7s

@abstract dawn do please, repeat yourself

[fathom obsidian]

being hated apparently

[shadow cliff]

While I'm not particularly the most versed in playing the wannabe Jurassic Park raptor, I feel like the rubberbanding issues is definitely clouding the gameplay and making it too difficult to really discern the balance. But bleeding big game out sounds alot better than just bumrushing it.

[cedar shore]

yeah

[ebon kraken]

Exactly.

[golden coral]

It is. It really really is.

[compact veldt]

the giraffe weight is in pounds btw the 3000 pounds is 1400 kg ish

[true ginkgo]

I feel stego flat out shouldn't have been added for quite a long while.

Either you get gimped stego which works with the roster, or stego which stats which actually suit it, and nothing except deino can kill it.

[swift beacon]

Well, for one, Trike ironically would be a decently challenging hunt rather than a nigh-impossible one

[minor cipher]

why are we talking about giraffes and lions when we're playing stego and utahs is my question.

[oak wind]

Why the fuck

[indigo vigil]

soo??

[winged sierra]

in what world is a giraffe at all comparable to a stegosaurus?

[swift beacon]

Since Stego defends its flanks with its tail while Trike has to face threats head-on

[indigo vigil]

fuckin SOOO??

[oak wind]

Do people want to kill quickly large things as Utah?

[indigo vigil]

bc u guys wanted a realistic game

[minor cipher]

shrug

[oak wind]

Giraffe is skinny bitch compared to Stego

[compact veldt]

compared to stego 6000kg and utah 450

[cedar shore]

It never was quick? you gotta bleed em out

[swift beacon]

Also a Giraffe would be more accurately described as similar to Para

[oak wind]

I mean

10 minutes is quick.

Too fast for what Stego is.

[indigo vigil]

Said wanted realistic game, so best refrence is right here for you. nature itself

[dawn falcon]

Utah was given more bleed damage so it’s not entirely unviable like people

[ebon kraken]

Also giraffes often kill lions it’s goes both ways. And how is a giraffe and a stego similar at all

[cedar shore]

10 minutes for a single fight isnt quick

[golden coral]

@dawn falconIn order from easiest to hardest. Hadrosaurs (teno being slightly harder due to vicious fighting), ceratopsids, and bipedal carnivores, including rex and giga. Spino/sucho, because of water advantage. Stego, because of it's anti-flank proper behaviour. And then anky, because armor and slight anti-flank with the tail.

There you go, prey list for utahs.

[oak wind]

It fucking is

[hot ibex]

[golden coral]

All of them large animals, all of them different and thus different in how difficult or easy they are to take on as a pack.

[oak wind]

I remember myself taking down a young pue as a Rex and it lasted 30 minutes.

[minor cipher]

I don't recall ever saying in this discussion that this game should be 100% realistic? I'm not a developer, BluePaw.

[swift beacon]

People often hunted Stegos over an hour back in legacy

[cedar shore]

Realism should never be an argument for game balance, period

[minor cipher]

Agreed.

[oak wind]

Or a hunt of Shant as an Allo pack taking over a 45 minutes

[swift beacon]

Logic on the other hand

[indigo vigil]

Ok lets now switch to a game which focuses on the FUN and BALANCE of it

give me a moment niw

now*

[minor cipher]

Uh..

[winged sierra]

that's what it was always about. You pulled realism out of nowhere

[minor cipher]

Okay?

[indigo vigil]

As of 13/08/21--- All stats are full grown* Bite dmg is just the standard attack**
Carnivores
Utah: 450kg, 450 HP, 55 Bite dmg, 46.8km/h
Carno: 1800kg, 1800 HP, 200 Bite dmg, 55.5km/h
Deino: 8000kg, 8000 HP, 500 Bite dmg, 18km/h
Ptera: 90kg, 90 HP, 15 Bite dmg, 28.5km/h

Herbivores
Tenonto: 1600kg, 1600 HP, 25 Bite dmg, 40.5km/h
Dryo: 120kg, 120 HP, 10 Bite dmg, 46.8km/h
Stego: 6000kg, 6000 HP, 50 Bite dmg, 26.2km/h
Hypsi: 20kg, 20 HP, 5 Bite dmg, 39.6km/h

[swift beacon]

You have 500 kg of meat, you should invest similar effort to get those 500 kg of meat regardless of what shape it's in

[indigo vigil]

look at all the stats

[golden coral]

10 min is very quick. It's no time at all.

[alpine plover]

I mean isn't the point of the pounce mechanic, is to help it whittle down larger prey?
Utah is obviously designed to hunt larger things than itself so the weight argument is quite a moot point

[true ginkgo]

Yes, a pack of five lions takes down an animal which is dedicated to fleeing, and has few natural weapons beyond its hooves.

Not a super slow walking tank covered in lethal weaponry.

[golden coral]

Come back when the hunt lasts at least 30 min.

[oak wind]

Logic is that Stego is an anti flanker. Utah is a flanker. It also it a large sized prey hunter in large packs taking patience to get its meal with relay strategy.

[cedar shore]

Yeah every time i fight a carno it last like 1 hour

[minor cipher]

where'd you get those numbers?

[jolly osprey]

It does make me wonder if Anky will be immune to Utah Pounce at full growth. Can’t really pounce a walking cliff edge.

I’d assume crouching to bite it’s belly would be more efficient.

[swift beacon]

Probably the game

[indigo vigil]

you know a giraffe can 1 tap a lions head and its done for? just like utah with a spike through its skull

if u dont believe me we can scale it down a little

walk up to a horses ass

[oak wind]

Anky is fully immune to it tbh. Never a Utah or pack of Utah will take it down. It must out heal them with its damage reduction '

[indigo vigil]

tickle it

see what it does to ur skull

XD

[swift beacon]

People also survive multiple lightning strikes

[solemn sequoia]

Reminder: lions are known to hunt elephants

[indigo vigil]

(just a note dont go actually doing this, I dont wanna get yalls dead)

[ebon kraken]

I don’t understand the complaints considering Utahs can still kill carnos and stegos. They just need big packs. Why should a small amount of Utahs be able to kill them?

[oak wind]

But Utah dies not only with thagomizers in its skull. It dies in a one shot in the body.

[golden coral]

I don't know how your hunts look like. I'm just saying, any hunt under 15 min is not a long hunt.

[indigo vigil]

there, to save my hide

[solemn sequoia]

utahs weight as much as POLAR BEARS

[indigo vigil]

play game, plz

[ebon kraken]

?

[jolly osprey]

Oh yeah, don’t get me wrong. Anky should not even be prey for Utahs in game. But if the devs do add it as an option, that’d be one damn dedicated pack.

[solemn sequoia]

play the game XD, we actually tested the mathchups

[oak wind]

Howell is right.

[winged sierra]

it seems like people want quick and easy battles more than anything else

[oak wind]

Utah should not hunt them.

[ebon kraken]

So have I? I mainly play Utah and stego

[deep spoke]

you are correct, although it can take hours to bring one down, and even then it seems they target youngsters and adolescents

[indigo vigil]

3v1 a tenonto, a good one, plz, try it

[minor cipher]

mhmm.

[cedar shore]

15 min is like so fast

[indigo vigil]

try more utah

[swift beacon]

Grab a fourth if you need to

[indigo vigil]

actually wait no

dont utah

[oak wind]

Utah is designed for large ornithopods, dwarf sauropods and similar sized preys.

[minor cipher]

but either way, I've stated my opinion.

[indigo vigil]

more steg since ur clearly shit at it to die to a utah pack

[alpine plover]

That's a copout
we know that pounce since it's rework has become more of an attrition ability

[true ginkgo]

Hooves are lethal yes. But the animal overall is evolved to flee from its predators, not stand its ground and fight them. It's flight first, fight is nothing else has worked. They have a good chance of escaping the lions using their speed without ever having to fight.

Stego is fight, followed by fight, followed by fight. Stego is 0% a flight animal. It doesn't have a single other option if attacked but to stand its ground.

Also I ride horses, I know full well how dangerous they are.

[ebon kraken]

If it’s a good tenonto they should be able to kill the 3 raptors

[indigo vigil]

get a grind on my guy, hell ill train u hmu

[oak wind]

Quick and easy fight with large size differences in favor of the smaller is dumb asf.

[winged sierra]

utah has been made to play as it should, bleeding over time, if it wants to hunt a stego. It's understandable that people dislike a sudden change but some of the arguments made are just... very odd

[fathom obsidian]

i think our utah is just a deinonychus named utahraptor

[golden coral]

We did pretty well I'd say. Of course you may not agree, but I didn't see it as impossible from our testing at all. Will it take time and effort and practice, sure. But thats rather normal.

[swift beacon]

Dakotaraptor would be more apt

Deinonychus is roughly 100 kg or so

[ebon kraken]

I have better things to do than train for a video game…

[oak wind]

Utah is actually done well now. It isn't as overtuned as it was and now is more specialized in 2 hunt tactics.

[fathom obsidian]

yeah but a full pounce to a stego now deal 1 pixel of bleed dmg now 😄

[golden coral]

I was hunted once by three carnos as stego, at the time of the thagomizer trick, over an hour. Now that was a proper long and hard hunt, and they earned their kill well and truly.

[oak wind]

Utah

Doesn't

Hunt

Stegos

[cedar shore]

Have you played it?

[true ginkgo]

Isle utah would be very similar to dakotaraptor in size if it had its head in a more neutral pose, rather than upright like it does.

[indigo vigil]

lol so dont go so stubborn about how a game should get its balances in work

[cedar shore]

"utah doenst hunt stegos" cmon man they are pack hunters, specialized in taking on larger prey

[oak wind]

No but not, being just dead if caught to Carno, CC by Tenonto, biten by Deino is now better.

But6

[indigo vigil]

I mean eh they shouldnt unless they are a big pack

[oak wind]

But

[indigo vigil]

that I agree with

[swift beacon]

Utah should probaby not hunt Stegos on the basis that, again, they hunt by latching flanks and Stego likely will have means of very easily defending its flanks

[oak wind]

Stego is an anti flanker

[golden coral]

It is yes ^^

[indigo vigil]

but cmon, 2v1 a tenonto

[oak wind]

It counters Utah hard

[indigo vigil]

they should be able to

[ebon kraken]

It seems pretty balanced to me that a pack of Utahs can take on large animals.

[winged sierra]

they are pack hunters specialised in not hunting large herbivores with flails on their tails

[indigo vigil]

they cant my boy

[cedar shore]

Since when did people hunt by latching flanks what???

[winged sierra]

but if you really want to, it's perfectly possible to hunt a stego as a pack of utahs

[fathom obsidian]

so pack hunters that cant hunt basically?

[true ginkgo]

Honestly I'd much rather have a utah based on the full size irl chonktah, but that's not what we have.

We have scrawny JP raptor, which is closest to dakota.

[oak wind]

Because they use pounce????

[solemn sequoia]

not anymore XD

[swift beacon]

As of last night???

[alpine plover]

The changes seem strange, I'll give it some time in the oven to see how the balance settles
Though I don't see how giving Carno a silver platter in the meta is gonna help really

[cedar shore]

Havent really tested it yet but i assume with the new pounce it should be a lot better

[swift beacon]

Literally what the update was about

[winged sierra]

i am living proof of my statement

[golden coral]

Do you agree with a prey list like the one I made? Instead of just going "large game hunter" size fits all?

[scarlet onyx]

My pack of utahs bit a carno about 30 times all 6 of us died over 15 minutes of fighting they left without any care

[cedar shore]

agreed tbh

[swift beacon]

You should probably not bite it then

[cedar shore]

I think we all need some more time to test everything

[swift beacon]

Absolutely this

[winged sierra]

pounce is intended to be the primary killer, especially since carno relies on running

[oak wind]

Utah bitting Carno 30 won't be efficient lol

Use pounce in large packs and do relay.

[fathom obsidian]

thats intended apparently, or the QA are telling us that

[winged sierra]

i skimmed it but i'll double check and give you my opinion

[oak wind]

That's intended.

[primal dove]

problem is there exists bucking, water and trees

[scarlet onyx]

Two pounces, we got bucked off in under 3 seconds. This is still not viable

[oak wind]

Utah isn't a bite and run.

[golden coral]

Yes. This I agree with. First off, playable performance. Then we'll test and practice, both in settings and in survival proper. And then we'll see how it goes when everyone is used to the new stuff.

[oak wind]

As 6 Utahs?

[swift beacon]

Get them to wear themselves down

[hot ibex]

lol

[oak wind]

You should have pounced with more of you all and drained the guy's stamina.

[cedar shore]

Yeah hard to test when im rubberbanding all over

[swift beacon]

Cycle members, play smart, and keep them on their toes

[primal dove]

only 2 utahs can pounce 1 carno

[oak wind]

Like, make the Carno run first, pounce and get away quickly

Relay Shadow

[scarlet onyx]

Cycle members with what? Two bites kills a utah now. What members are left after even one or two bites

[ebon kraken]

That’s because of the rubberbanding from the recent update. When that’s fixed we can actually properly play

[oak wind]

And anyway Utah isn't meant to hunt mid tiers.

[indigo vigil]

there u go before I go

[swift beacon]

Don't get bit

[golden coral]

I'd be happy to test, at least in short durations, when game actually works properly!

[fathom obsidian]

yes it is, utahs is not velo

[solemn sequoia]

utah can't bite and run its bite is too weak, utah can't pounce bucking and other ways to knock it off along with the shit damage and bleed

[cedar shore]

I got admin on a server just hmu

[abstract dawn]

Weeelll, let's break this down then. A Giraffe is not a good substitute for a thyreophoran like Stegosaurus. Stegosaurus has thagomizers and the two have entirely different body plans. I do not see your point...

[primal dove]

if it "can" hunt apexes why cant it defend itself against mid tier?

[winged sierra]

i do really like the list, it's a lot more detailed than just going "utah hunt big"

[ebon kraken]

Why do you keep comparing lions and giraffes to stego and Utahs lol

[oak wind]

Like, that's the thing you need to understand with Utah. It is, will, should and must be terrible at hunting mid tier carnivores.

[dawn falcon]

btw Carno isn’t a mid tier whatsoever

[indigo vigil]

doubt it, u get 1 tapped by a tail and sure good ones can dodge it, I dodge it, but like man, 2 tap with the claws which do a def 180 or 360 hit

[oak wind]

It runs from them. Utah is more nimble and has more stamina right?

[swift beacon]

Aye, just a bit shy of the margin

[solemn sequoia]

THATS LITTERALLY WHAT IT EVOLVED TO HUNT

[indigo vigil]

Everyones fuzzing about small weight cannot damage big weight

[golden coral]

As soon as rubberbanding and other performance issues are fixed, I'll be there.

[oak wind]

It hunted similar sized animals.

Wanna see a size chart of its environment?

[solemn sequoia]

nah, 3 ton iguanodons are on the menu

[cedar shore]

realism should never be an argument for game balance. regardeless

[swift beacon]

Well, if it's retooled to hunt mids it shouldn't be able to deal with larges or its size very well

[oak wind]

Iguanocolossus is 13 tons.

[dawn falcon]

Utah was designed to hunt things bigger than it

Mid tiers included

[oak wind]

Not 3

[swift beacon]

Give and take

[indigo vigil]

????

[dawn falcon]

But are harder than apexes

[indigo vigil]

iguanadon

[swift beacon]

Law of equivalent exchange

[scarlet onyx]

So after exhausting all of our stam down to 10 seconds of sprint time from being bucked how do we not get bit, explain that one to me

[cedar shore]

Its not fun to play a game where certain playables are ass and some are OP because "realism"

[oak wind]

It didn't lived with Iguanodon.

It lived with Iguanocolossus.

A relative.

[swift beacon]

Jump before it bucks

[indigo vigil]

we mean these ones buzbo

[primal dove]

can we just fuck realism like actually

[abstract dawn]

You're not going to outdamage it.

[golden coral]

Thank you. I think it might be a better way to look at critters, instead of just "large game" or carno "small game", since we got some smalls, like dryo or galli, that are a lot less scary than a utah or pachy, and then there's the prehistoric porcupine kentro that's.. probably one of the last things you'd like to charge as a carno.

[scarlet onyx]

You still get bucked stam drain on detatch, not happening

[dawn falcon]

Think of it this way

Utha has an easier time hunting things bigger than it, than similar sizes.

[indigo vigil]

you expect me to face tank?

[swift beacon]

If you're jumping as it bucks you're not jumping before it bucks

[oak wind]

That's what Utah lived with.

[wintry mountain]

oversized utah bad example, levi

[oak wind]

I know '

[ebon kraken]

Bait it’s attacks. Claw attack takes stam now. Also you can go and heal if you have a pack. Pounce it to bleed it out. Without the rubberbanding of course. If the teno is really good he may still win

[abstract dawn]

no

[indigo vigil]

Look at the biggest herb, guess what it is

[indigo vigil]

gets 5 tick bucked off, 0 stam

bleed, did 2 at best

[oak wind]

Better Utah btw.

[deep spoke]

you know you can jump off before you expend all of your stamina?

[indigo vigil]

LEVI.

look at the shit u sent

utah is the biggest shit there

[alpine plover]

I think the argument works in reverse in this case
It's not that people want a quick and easier fight as Utahs
It's that people wanna have an easier time against them so they won't have to deal with them
Surefire counterplay already existed beforehand, and Utah's struggled in fights against Carnos, Tenos, Stegos, Deinos if they slipped up or they used the environment to help
Utahs took a modicum of timing and juking to play as their low hp was already a shadowing anxiety to them as a lot of the roster were capable of heavy hitting
QA's takes have been dissappointing from a mechanic design viewpoint

[oak wind]

But we don't know if it hunted them as IRL Utah were pack hunters tho.

In game they are

And they must hunt large animals in huge packs.

But not all kind of animals. I

Tyreophoras are bad ideas.

[indigo vigil]

mf still

[fathom obsidian]

yeah we know, you know that you have to jump after like 1.5s of pounce if you dont wanna fall and that deal like 1 bleed dmg total?

[indigo vigil]

biggest carni

OF THEM ALL

[oak wind]

Ankylosaurs, Nodosaurs, Stegosaurs.

Not on Utah menu after a certain size.

[indigo vigil]

OWOGATAGA, do I need to spell u this out in furry language!?

[oak wind]

And Utah didn't hunted all animals up there.

[indigo vigil]

no way no

but boy

[swift beacon]

If the Carno'a busy dealing with your friends it's not chasing you, take a minute to rest on the lowkey

[oak wind]

Don't be dumb dude.

[indigo vigil]

50%+ of these it did

[true ginkgo]

Just because a herbivore existed in the same area at the same time, doesn't mean that carnivore hunted it.

[swift beacon]

Then get back in the fray

[indigo vigil]

says you]

[oak wind]

Think about how work an environment

Niches

[minor cipher]

that's enough. Quit.

[indigo vigil]

or..?

[oak wind]

Specialization and such.

[minor cipher]

Can't be mature about the discussion then move on.

[golden coral]

Yes and no. It depends, to me at least, on what is ass/op vs what. Do I want something nothing else can harm, or something that everything shits on? No.That does not make for a good playable at all. But I do think it's fine if some things can't really touch others, as long as they can survive and all that. You don't need to be able to harm everything, as long as you can harm what you need to remain alive.

[indigo vigil]

they insulted me lol, go batter them up

[swift beacon]

So, quick process:

[solemn sequoia]

then you'd have overpopulation

[indigo vigil]

e-yup

[minor cipher]

If neither of you can contribute in a mature way don't talk to each other.

[scarlet onyx]

I get that but carno/teno is about where that threshold should be to be able to kill with high difficulty, this is just impossible though

[ebon kraken]

There was most likely larger carnivores around Utah back then.

[true ginkgo]

Often the young, old, injured, or sick are hunted.

Lions don't bring down big adult healthy elephants, rhinos, or hippos.

[swift beacon]

1. approach target
2. get a pounce in
3. wait until you think it'll buck
4. hop off
5. rinse and repeat 2-4 until your stam is getting low
6. get your pack to distract while you recover
7. rinse and repeat 2-6 until it dies or you die

[indigo vigil]

well if thats the case, dont direct it towards only me, I have facts and stats and stuff from real life and they go in saying "oh but u didnt see them do it" when reference next to reference in nature, they wouldve

[solemn sequoia]

no but they do jiraffes

[indigo vigil]

do I need to dig up a utah and bring it back to life for them or?

[oak wind]

Large bodied theropod being most likely Allosauroid.

[primal dove]

it would genetically make absolutely no sense if herbivores didnt get hunted, it´s all about natural selection, if u dont have to evolve to survive you´d get absolute genetic rubbish

[true ginkgo]

Giraffes are not the largest animal in the ecosystem. There are many many herbivores larger and heavier which live with it.

[compact veldt]

yes please

[indigo vigil]

also no game mechanics with that

[swift beacon]

A target that's having to constantly deal with Utahs is a target that isn't recovering stamina to buck

[oak wind]

Tenonto must be a possible prey item and shouldn't be impossible but really hard with its CC.

Carno though is something that you flee.

[golden coral]

Yes and no. There is obviously a disagreement in how big the gap should be and how difficult/easy any side should have. Deino was fine, too good. Stego wasn't good enough. Carno was more or less fine from my experience, teno should have been pretty okay as well. Dryos were just too good. It's mostly a disagreement on how counterplay should look like, when it should be properly needed, and how easy/difficult x should have it vs y. Which is a very subjective thing obviously.

[oak wind]

Elephants. Hippos and rhinos.

[true ginkgo]

Predators will target the most vulnerable herd members. Lions don't see a group of elephants and beeline the strongest and largest adult there.

[true ginkgo]

buffalo

[oak wind]

Also '

Giraffe are very light.

[swift beacon]

Giraffes are tall deer

[oak wind]

Surprisingly ligh.

[indigo vigil]

right! wolves! want to see wolves rip up a buffalo?

[solemn sequoia]

a moose is a tank

[oak wind]

Moose are bigger

[swift beacon]

A moose isn't a giraffe

[oak wind]

Iirc.

[primal dove]

what the f- i was talking about the ecosystem and not why they attack their prey

[ebon kraken]

Giraffes arnt that heavy. Also they are mammals. So not really a good comparison

[indigo vigil]

yeah, duh

[solemn sequoia]

but it is a relative of a deer

[minor cipher]

Let's not post videos of animals tearing each other apart

[swift beacon]

A moose is a big deer

[deep spoke]

assisted with a giraffe necropsy once, it's crazy how their torso is very similar in size to a horse, but then all their limbs are stretched like silly putty.

[swift beacon]

A giraffe is a tall deer

[solemn sequoia]

thats what the isle is though

[indigo vigil]

..isle is a horror game?

[golden coral]

Hey, someone who thinks like me! :p

[indigo vigil]

from wat people say

[true ginkgo]

yes, in a pack hunting the weakest herd members.

they single out animals which are flagging and target them. They don't all pick the most powerful adult and kill it.

[swift beacon]

You can be tall and not big, and big but not tall

[indigo vigil]

They typically more pick whoever runs off of the herd

[winged sierra]

irl gore =/= video game gore

[minor cipher]

Rule 5.

[dapper frost]

i personally dont like that rule myself but game violence and irl violence is an obvious difference

[oak wind]

Utah pack hunting Maia, Tenonto, Shant if above their pack limit. That's what is called mobbing '

[indigo vigil]

it'll be from youtube, dont think it will show anything too harsh dont worry

[oak wind]

Taking hour to take it down'

[minor cipher]

No.

[indigo vigil]

alr so I cannot provide facts if so..?

[true ginkgo]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SurviveTheIsle/comments/ka5z38/some_evrima_early_combat_utahraptor_pounce_vs/

The balance should never go back to this, with a mid sized utah pack killing two apex herbivores in about 30 seconds.

[ebon kraken]

Also the wolves are in a pack… like Utahs.

[indigo vigil]

yeah I agree with that

[oak wind]

And take long to take down things.

[minor cipher]

Youtube doesn't give a crap often times, there's been plenty of videos posted that show some gruesome stuff. Don't, please.

[indigo vigil]

and dont think ill be showing heavy gore

[fathom obsidian]

no one wants that again

[compact veldt]

just make a paint image

[oak wind]

Irl, you don't kill things quickly. Everything does slowly or are even eaten alive by exhaustion

[sinful cove]

What is “tried to escape a meat”

[indigo vigil]

yeah, but do u really want to sit around for a day on a game to kill something

[compact veldt]

well you see, if you look like a running bus, you will attract meat

[indigo vigil]

games cannot EVER get the realism of a game

and or time

it is impossible

[sinful cove]

Thank you for the clarification is all makes sense now

[indigo vigil]

so yes, patience is good

but know

it cannot be on for hours

[compact veldt]

np 👍

[abstract dawn]

Well, its funny how there multiple kinds of carnivores. Perhaps Carnotaurus would fit your need to dish out quick damage better?

[primal dove]

bruh that vid was recorded when u couldnt buck bc of a bug but yes dont let utahs be able to oneshot apexes about the mid tiers mhhh i´d say with a large group yes

[oak wind]

Yes

I did that.

[indigo vigil]

and remember a game needs to be fun to play it

[oak wind]

Was exiting

[indigo vigil]

for like a day straight?

just like in rl?

[oak wind]

Not irl day

But a game day

[alpine plover]

In the occasion that a Utah slipped up, it did often die quickly to almost instantly in a lot of cases, though I will admit the Stego part was mostly related together with the desync, alot of playables interacted pretty okay with Utah, so the changes now seem so strange when the wheel was already working. Now it seems they're having another go at it, and for the most part. The initial effects have left pretty hard results for this playable, to some it becoming lackluster in it's role of pack hunting large prey. The counterplay worked, the dinos had proper stats and attacks to back them up(except for Stego and Hypsi)
And Utah overpopulation, Stegos dropping like flies, and Hypsi's being at the mercy of them
Have all.
And I say this again to rephrase.
Have all been fundamental mechanic issues, like the abundance of food, or poor implementation to aid Stego and Hypsi

[oak wind]

Yes

[indigo vigil]

thats like 30 minutes