#balance-feedback-discussion | The Isle Official Discord | Page 263

thorn spire Jul 5, 2021, 10:33 PM

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"Uthas are to weak, they cant outrun a carno, and if you fail a pounce your dead."

TI_Wheeze

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:19 PM

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Dryo didn't even need to have its dodge buffed to be good. It was a perfectly viable animal prior to the speed buff. Atm it's kind of broken survival-wise and dies only when it wants to mess with something much, much bigger. Dryo's sheer agility was enough to keep it alive during update 2 days. I've played the animal at the time and I actively hunted not fully grown Utahs killing them at will. With the speed buff the animal has become outright too good but it doesn't really matter since barely anyone plays it anyways.

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:20 PM

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I mean to be fair

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Ptera basically only dies when it wants to as well

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:22 PM

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You could apply most of that stuff to Ptera too but the difference is that it's not quite as capable PvP-wise(although to be fair there are some Pteras that can force any animal to get off any open area just due to the fact that they can peck stuff without taking any risk).

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I'd very much like to see Pteranodon nerfed in one way or another but I don't think it's quite as good as Dryo atm.

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Then again - barely anyone uses Pteranodon properly so it's not like they are a massive issue.

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:23 PM

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Dryo's attack does do a bit too much considering his mouth looks like a fuckin fingernail lol

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:23 PM

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It does

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Both of these animals are in this category where they are not really an issue in the hands of an average player but they become way too good when controlled by someone who knows how to play them.

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I'd also argue that this isn't even a matter of skill because with Ptera it's largely reliant on knowing when you can attack stuff out of its range.

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:26 PM

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Personally id nerf his hp and attack (personally i'd also nerf utah hp to 750 because both are too tanky for their size), and wait on a good dodge before lowering his speed before adding galli who should probably hold the spot as the fastest herbi

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:27 PM

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I don't think I'd even really nerf Dryo's hp. Yea it might be a bit tanky but that's not an issue, it is too fast and deals too much damage though. It wouldn't become bad if it got moved down to its old speed of 50km/h but instead it would have to actually put some effort into surviving.

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:28 PM

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Not really worth it for a dryo in that case though, very low quality animal, which is why i would personally wait on it to have its special features fleshed out before lowering its speed to 50 or 51

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Since it is basically just a more boring ground ptera if it has nothing going for it

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Its like hypsi who is only worth picking sometimes because it spawns at full growth

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:30 PM

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It is a low quality animal even now. To be fair I think it was mainly introduced into the game because it was ready as an AI so the devs made it also playable while they decided to use it for testing AI.

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I don't think Hypsi is worth picking at all due to Dryo just being much better.

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Unless you just want to run around as Hypsi because it does look pretty good.

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:31 PM

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Hypsi is good for spitting at dinos who arent paying attention to you and then dying with 0 penalty of a time sink and thats it lol

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:32 PM

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Yea well, I don't think that that even achieves anything so I don't really consider it good at all. It just looks good and has an interesting special ability that's not really useful for survival at all. Overall not really worth picking unless you just want to troll around for a big.

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A meme-animal

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Same would go for Dryo if it wasn't for the fact that it's absurdly overtuned for its size.

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:34 PM

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And thats it, its a troll dino because its spit is useless for defense and only good for trolling. Dryo could be considered a troll dino because it's overtuned, they should clip its fingernail ass mouth to do less damage as a bandaid patch while fixing its dodge

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The AI are about as dumb as a roach once you spot them in most cases so they arent a huge problem

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:36 PM

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I wouldn't really call a the current Dryo a troll pick because it's very much capable of killing a lot of things. I think the only three playables that are safe from an organised group of Dryos are Carno, Tenonto and Deino.

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Stegos, Utahs and any younglings are all fair game for Dryo flocks.

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And yea AI are really dumb on one hand and yet apparently they are really good at hiding.

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I do have some doubts as to whether them not appearing very often is more so due to them being well hidden or if there just aren't very many AI on the map.

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:38 PM

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Juvies i'd argue should be fair game for anything in the proper size range, and stegos are dogshit against anything small and agile sadly

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:38 PM

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One of the reasons why I have my doubts is that I'd hear far more of their calls during the update 2. Nowadays those seem very rare.

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:38 PM

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Adult utahs realistically shouldnt be getting their ass beat by dryos unless they are grossly outnumbered

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But a damage fix might help that

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:39 PM

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I'd agree but Dryos are still a bit too good at killing "small" animals. I put "small" in quotation marks because those animals are very often larger than Dryos in terms of absolute size but they still die to them.

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Adult Utah dies for sure if there are 4 Dryos around.

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3 can kill it as well rather easily, I've seen a video of a Utah getting soloed but I think that is down to Utah's incompetence more so than anything.

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2v1 is idk, I've never seen that happen

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:41 PM

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I mean if it was an incompetent utah its just natural selection, but personally id think it should take 5 dryos to put a utah on the ropes since they can easily just run right now which is what they should do

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They can run, so their attack should be much lower

halcyon harness Jul 5, 2021, 11:42 PM

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yall complaining about dryos why? like there just there????

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:42 PM

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Would be cool if they gave us a surprise dryo dodge fix in update 4.5 but i doubt, i just think dryo would have 0 worth if they were reverted while their dodge is still bad

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:42 PM

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We're complaining about them because they are actually pretty overtuned

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You are unlikely to notice that since barely anyone ever plays them

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but yea they are definitely too strong atm

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:42 PM

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I mean i dont care that dryos are going on killing sprees i just understand the misbalance lol

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I love that dryos are going around wrecking juvie utahs and carnos and lone utahs but it shouldnt be happening so much

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:43 PM

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I don't even care because I've had only like one Dryo try to kill my juv carnivore and it wasn't very good, expecting me to take the bait.

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It shouldn't really be happening at all. Dryo is 4 times smaller than a Utah and yet for some reason deals more than half the damage of a Utah.

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It also creates a lot of issues with the future small roster.

halcyon harness Jul 5, 2021, 11:44 PM

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hollow canyon but yea they are definitely too strong atm

too strong would be unkillable or touchable which true at all

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:44 PM

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They are unkillable and untouchable if they wish to be that way but that being combined with the fact that they are surprisingly capable at PvP is the main issue.

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I've seen what a Dryo flock could do to a sitting Stego in a matter of seconds.

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It just doesn't seem right

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:45 PM

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Dryos bite is basically just a big pinch it shouldn’t really be killing anything bigger than it unless it is some big lynch mob surrounding one utah pinching it to death in a slow agonizing session

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:45 PM

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Is nerf really necessary? Not that much because aggressive PvP-oriented Dryos are rare so they are a negligible issue.

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Overall though they definitely shouldn't be dealing that much damage nor running as fast as they do.

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:46 PM

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Stego dying to dryo is partly a stego problem too since their attack is garbage against anything with decent agility

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Easy to juke

halcyon harness Jul 5, 2021, 11:46 PM

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hollow canyon It just doesn't seem right

u sure your on official servers?

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:47 PM

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Yeah, although the instance with Stego didn't happen on official servers

halcyon harness Jul 5, 2021, 11:47 PM

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hollow canyon Yeah, although the instance with Stego didn't happen on official servers

i was about to say like really

hollow canyon Jul 5, 2021, 11:47 PM

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I do play mainly officials and as I said those are really rare in my experience

halcyon harness Jul 5, 2021, 11:48 PM

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official will get better with more dinos in my opinion

sinful cove Jul 5, 2021, 11:48 PM

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Ive heard a lot about dryos headshotting stegos to death and ive seen pteras finish off stegos who managed to beat off utah attackers, bad time for stegos lol

vestal gust Jul 6, 2021, 2:49 AM

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Dryo biting doesn’t even make sense to be honest, it should really be kicking with the legs

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In which case the kick would be a much more telegraphed attack, and the damage it has now would make a bit more sense

sinful cove Jul 6, 2021, 5:14 AM

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An animal with such strong sprinting legs really should be using them as their offensive when their mouth is basically a tweezer tip, its bite shouldn’t be killing anything unless its facebiting an afk small tier because large dinos should be healing that shit off as fast as its applied

vestal gust Jul 6, 2021, 7:21 AM

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A dryo biting anything to death that’s not hypsi sized is a bit dumb yeah. If it used those legs though, that would have enough force to knock the wind out of a Utah for sure

dim radish Jul 6, 2021, 6:31 PM

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@bitter copper
I smell a repost

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I feel like you are posting the same message in every chat

sinful cove Jul 6, 2021, 11:01 PM

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I don't think stego needs a stun, would be a little busted, he definitely needs another swing attack though, maybe an aoe sweep with better coverage and less raw damage

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O the stun idea was just for anky im a dummy

halcyon harness Jul 7, 2021, 5:50 AM

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sinful cove O the stun idea was just for anky im a dummy

a stunning anky TI_Yikes

sinful cove Jul 7, 2021, 5:51 AM

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id rather just have anky dishing out shitloads of fracture and damage, doesnt need a stun when it can shatter your shins or break your jaw

halcyon harness Jul 7, 2021, 5:52 AM

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sinful cove id rather just have anky dishing out shitloads of fracture and damage, doesnt ne...

exactly, do you think he should be a bit heavy too? or do you think theyll add like a scaly skin perk bc of his armor on his back?

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maybe like a passive?

sinful cove Jul 7, 2021, 5:52 AM

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probably an armour mechanic, sort of like deino's passive bleed resistance

halcyon harness Jul 7, 2021, 5:53 AM

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sinful cove probably an armour mechanic, sort of like deino's passive bleed resistance

yeah i would hope so bc anky will be alot of fun if they do that

left scroll Jul 7, 2021, 10:20 AM

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ran close to the word limit so I couldn't fit it, but something I wanted to add to my post in feedback is that part of the issue with stego's jab is that it's just kind of backwards in how it works? Easy to dodge attacks should generally drain less stam, because they're easy to miss. Attacks that are very hard to dodge should drain more stam, because if you miss that's probably your fault. This is what makes teno's tail slam good in terms of stam drain. It does use a fair bit of stam, but it's a very fast attack and it's difficult to dodge. If teno flails around spamming it they'll be punished, but if they pull it off properly they'll be fine. Stego's tail jab has a moment of windup though that makes it a predictable and easy attack to dodge, yet drains a fair bit of stam

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this is also why I don't mind deino's alt bite not using much stam in theory, because it's a slow attack that's easy to avoid. I think the current situation is pretty overkill though. The lunge meanwhile does use a fair bit of stam, but is a quick attack that's a lot harder to dodge (partly because you usually don't see the deino coming)

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 1:00 PM

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Easy to dodge attacks should generally drain less stam, because they're easy to miss.

Depends, there's a 3rd factor, if it deals the most damage it makes sense. Hard to hit, takes alot, but rewarding.

Attacks that arent very hard to dodge should drain more stam, because if you miss that's probably your fault.

But this could be balanced by doing the opposite from the above, make it weaker, easy to hit, low stam.

This is what makes teno's tail slam good in terms of stam drain. It does use a fair bit of stam, but it's a very fast attack and it's difficult to dodge.

It stun locks you as a drawback. Heavy damage but there's a drawback.

If teno flails around spamming it they'll be punished, but if they pull it off properly they'll be fine. Stego's tail jab has a moment of windup though that makes it a predictable and easy attack to dodge, yet drains a fair bit of stam and deals far more damage than tenos tail.

left scroll Jul 7, 2021, 1:58 PM

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there is that yeah, but it makes things a lot more murky :P

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I think stego's tail jab is fine as is in terms of overall speed, stam drain and how much damage it deals, if stego gets a secondary attack that's faster, does less damage and drains less stam

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not an effective attack against large animals, but good against small ones

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stego doesn't need the power of the tail jab to get rid of a utah, but the bite is utterly pointless, so it doesn't have any other option than to jab and hope the utah doesn't dodge

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 4:06 PM

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I think stego's tail jab is fine as is in terms of overall speed, stam drain and how much damage it deals, if stego gets a secondary attack that's faster, does less damage and drains less stam

Agreed, the heavy attack (current attack) should be an Alt attack and be used against apexes.

There should be a faster attack that replaces the current one that's alot weaker and meant for smaller more agile targets.

carmine charm Jul 7, 2021, 5:18 PM

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left scroll there is that yeah, but it makes things a lot more murky :P

I have to agree with you, BUT! until we have so much desync problems overall this can't be implemented. I died like 500 times because the stego swing his tail 100 miles away from me and i got 1 shotted as a Utah. Or my favorite usually when i bite steg head then i manage to run away like 1-2 stegbody distance and still get a tailhit which is 75% or Utah hp.
I really hope that devs will focus on engine.
We dont need more dinos which dies in lagg.
We dont need fancy moving plants which will cause even more lagg.
We dont need nice water which cause laggy riversides.

We need a game where survival is not relaying on lagg.

Please Devs! Makes things happening 😄 I know its hard and i dont know how to help in this process. But maybe there should be a little more ONLY TEST servers, where you can constantly test things.

sinful cove Jul 7, 2021, 8:35 PM

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Who says utahs run down carnos to kill them in defense but tenos don't? Utahs have an easier time escaping carnos, maybe tenos are just taking opportunities to eliminate threats TI_Troll

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Carno has enough of a speed advantage that it can wallow

dim radish Jul 7, 2021, 8:37 PM

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Yeah true. Also there is this neat little thing called crouching That Carno can do in order to not get detected

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 8:48 PM

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sinful cove Carno has enough of a speed advantage that it can wallow

IF it has full stamina

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and if it's in the right place

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that's not a good argument

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I'm sure every carno will be full stam and near mud when they're getting chased by 5 chinese kos-ing tenos lmfao

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carno stam is so bad

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and its regen is fast

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so why even have low stam

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it

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would make more sense

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to have high stam slow regen

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teno intended gameplay is not to run down carnos lol

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it was made to counter them in PVP

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 8:52 PM

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dim radish Yeah true. Also there is this neat little thing called *crouching* That Carno ca...

Crouching isn't going to do much

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you'd have to be near bushes

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and even then everything can smell you

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what teno is going to stop chasing a carno because it ran into a bush lmao

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carno is a plains hunter

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in my opinion it doesn't make sense for a plains hunter to have low stamina, it has a lot of ground to cover

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also about the ram

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it's not worth it even if you have the jump on something

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it takes too much stamina that you'd wanna have while fighting'

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and it leaves you vulnerable to third-parties

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I'd only ever do it if I am hunting something that's alone

golden coral Jul 7, 2021, 9:03 PM

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crystal stream I'm sure every carno will be full stam and near mud when they're getting chased ...

If you're not always keeping your stamina and food/water up, minding your surroundings, being aware of the pros and cons of where you are, I'd say that's on your head for not thinking in survival terms. That's not something the game should be adjusted to account for.

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:10 PM

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You just sound like a salty carno TI_Wheeze

"Stegos shouldnt be able to run me down"

"Why cant I get away from 5 tenontos, I shouldnt have to wallow I should be faster than galli"

Carno mains truly have some sort of god complex. Utahs can run you down, and tenontos can too, if you were gonna run you should've never tried to take on 5 tenontos (since you're out of stam) that's on you buddy.

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"Fighting leaves you vulnerable to 3rd parties"

...you dont say?

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:12 PM

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thorn spire You just sound like a salty carno <:TI_Wheeze:735343241175629824> "Stegos shou...

This is the problem with the feedback server

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if anyone makes feedback suggesting tweaking some stats

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the people think

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"lol i died so buff me"

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:13 PM

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"Utahs can chase down carno as defense"

But not tenontos?

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:13 PM

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thorn spire "Utahs can chase down carno as defense" But not tenontos?

why would a tenonto use the stam it needs for its tail and kicks lmao

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:13 PM

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?

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:13 PM

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that's the only defense it has

golden coral Jul 7, 2021, 9:13 PM

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Well, you're asking for a change that can be handled by just playing a bit smarter, at least somewhat..

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:14 PM

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^

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:14 PM

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It isn't always possible to get away from multiple players doing what they aren't intended to

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:14 PM

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1st off why are you engaging 5 tenontos as carno long enough for your stam to be drained?

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:14 PM

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I didn't even play carno today

golden coral Jul 7, 2021, 9:14 PM

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You're faster, can crouch to hide tracks completely..

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:15 PM

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thorn spire 1st off why are you engaging 5 tenontos as carno long enough for your stam to be...

I didn't engage 5 tenos lmfao

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I'm saying if you run into them by coincidence

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you can't really get away that easily

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:15 PM

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Then you can easily book it and avoid them^

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:15 PM

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ah yes

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use all your stam when they can just sniff you down

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:16 PM

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Wallowing ;l

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:16 PM

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tenos can easily run down carnos lmao

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yeah let me wallow in deino infested rivers

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there are only 2 rivers in this dog shit map to be fair

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:16 PM

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There are risks to life, you wanna chance a deino or get hunted down? Which one is more likely.

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:17 PM

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that shouldn't be a choice to make

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tenos shouldn't KOS

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:17 PM

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Utahs and stegos wallow all the time, but you're too afraid to do so?

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:17 PM

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I can see why

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:17 PM

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Well too bad, any player can KOS on any dino.

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:17 PM

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fighting is the only thing you can do

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in evrima

golden coral Jul 7, 2021, 9:17 PM

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Just crouch?

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You don't leave tracks at all when crouching, unless that changed? So.. where's the issue really? :p

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:18 PM

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Fighting is an inherent part of survival

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Also if you know the map well enough there are mud spots away from rivers or in shallows.

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:18 PM

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golden coral You don't leave tracks at all when crouching, unless that changed? So.. where's ...

the only protection you have while crouching is bushes

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not very easy for a huge therapod

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:19 PM

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enough protection ^

golden coral Jul 7, 2021, 9:19 PM

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Yes? And yes, I know there's some cheating, but there's bushes enough, and don't just stop, use your stam, then crouch away

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:19 PM

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Bushes in evrima are ridiculously big

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:19 PM

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in the plains yes

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but everyone can see you running into one

golden coral Jul 7, 2021, 9:19 PM

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You run almost out of stam, crouch, then promptly head in a different direction, or even backtrack slightly "to the side" so you can trick them

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:20 PM

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So when tenontos are chasing you yorue gonna stay in the plains instead of going into the jungle and breaking line of sight.

Smarter plays can be made...

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:20 PM

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thorn spire So when tenontos are chasing you yorue gonna stay in the plains instead of going...

Jungles don't really have much cover

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for carno anyway

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especially if you're crouching

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literally anything can see your tail

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:21 PM

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They have enough cover to break line of sight and force them to sniff you down if they are so hard pressed.

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:21 PM

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I don't think it's them being pressed

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:21 PM

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By then youd be out of the jungle and wallowed, and would've kept moving

golden coral Jul 7, 2021, 9:21 PM

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Positioning as well, you know which way they might come from, so hide correctly

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:21 PM

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more of hunting for fun

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the shallows thing is true

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I feel like deino doesn't have anything to eat

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other than fish AI or other deinos

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:23 PM

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Well they are cannibals TI_WeSmart

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:24 PM

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yeah I mean that'd be fine if the juvis were able to escape

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:24 PM

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I've heard somewhere that they plan on making deinos under a certain percentage faster than adults on land.

crystal stream Jul 7, 2021, 9:25 PM

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I hope they go through with that

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 9:25 PM

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Indeed, also underwater vegetation will be a thing that helps.

hollow canyon Jul 7, 2021, 9:45 PM

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Yea idk about Carno hiding in the jungles. It can most definitely lose a Tenonto there but I don't think it's all that doable by just crouching in the bushes. You also don't need to engage those 5 Tenontos for a very long time at all for them to track you down. I've had an instance some time ago where I fought 6 Tenontos, I got one of them using roughly 25% of my stamina. Still got ran down by the rest eventually(admittedly the fight did take place a bit far from any forest). Is it balanced? Kind of... but at the same time a bit nonsensical for Carno to be reliant on being in a close proximity to dense forests, considering it's meant to be a hunter of the plains. Then again not very many thing currently work as they are meant to so I wouldn't really consider it a problem. I'd argue that eventually it will need some tweaks.

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Having said that Tenonto is a bit on the good side(if not too good). I would hold on with nerfing it until the next patch and see how it performs with diets already in but as it is the animal is definitely one of the better ones in the game, probably falling just behind Dryo and Deino.

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In other words it offers a tonne of firepower while requiring little to no-effort.

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 10:51 PM

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Yes however as you said you hunted 6 vs 1 carno. If a 1 v 1 with tenonto is a balanced matchup why would you attempt doing so? If you had a pack of atleast 3 you would've been able to kill them all.

And yes you can get hunted down but you cannot get chased down if you know what I mean. As you said you couldnt break line of sight, that's already bad for an animal who can get stammed down. Might I ask if you were able to wallow? (Not that that would help if you were in the plains or open area)

Imo all dinos should strive to be tenonto level as to me it's the most balanced dino.

It does have alot of fire power with its tail but it's not like it has no drawbacks to it. It drains alot of stam and holds you in place. So it's one if the easier dinos to bait imo.

hollow canyon Jul 7, 2021, 11:13 PM

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3 Carnos should not be killing 6 Tenontos unless the Tenontos are really bad tbh. Stun on any Carno there should pretty much mean that it dies on the spot.

Wallowing was not an option as the hunt took place in the southern plains. I've ran out of stamina right after reaching the forest.

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And I kind of agree that Tenonto is balanced. I consider it to have the Allo-syndrome where it's one of the few well balanced animals which makes it seem overpowered. As for the drawbacks of the Tenonto - yea it does have some but I wouldn't really say that the stam drain is that big of an issue.

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I don't remember running out of stamina as a Tenonto in any fight ever.

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The main "issue" with Tenonto is that it has to remain stationary to put out most of its dps which coupled with the fact that its best attacks are directed at its behind means that it's not particularly good at offense.

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This is also the reason why despite being really good it's not all that oppressive.

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 11:17 PM

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Well you appear to be a good player, so you probably dont spam tail.

As for your carno play, do you believe that if you managed your stam better or picked a better fight that you wouldn't have gotten stammed down?

I agree with your last comment. The kick can be utilized while moving and you can 360 no scope with it so it could be used "offensively" but yeah it's meant for defense 100%.

hollow canyon Jul 7, 2021, 11:18 PM

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Yea I know about the kick but I personally have never gotten hit with it. It does have its use for sure but it's limited range makes it a subpar tool to the tailslam.

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 11:18 PM

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Yeah

hollow canyon Jul 7, 2021, 11:18 PM

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I myself typically also resorted to just using the tail although I did land some kicks in some fights while I was trying to conserve stamina and see whether kick is worth anything.

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If I were to change something about the Tenonto

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I'd probably swap the damage and stam cost on the kick and tailslam.

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At least in my experience tailslam is easier to land than the kick.

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This would make it so that Tenonto can use its long range and easier to land attack to CC a target.

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And then utilise the kick to dish out the dps.

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 11:20 PM

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Ah, ok. That would be interesting.

hollow canyon Jul 7, 2021, 11:20 PM

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This is just my theorycrafting though I'm not sure whether it's the best solution.

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As it is though I don't utilise the kick very much myself.

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 11:20 PM

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Yeah it wouldn't really change carnos being stammed down. But it would def be an interesting change.

#

The kick also deals bleed and has a little stun. (Like .5-1sec)

hollow canyon Jul 7, 2021, 11:21 PM

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I would ignore Carno being stammed down for now, it is an issue but a minor one.

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 11:21 PM

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And it could be avoided with better awareness.

hollow canyon Jul 7, 2021, 11:22 PM

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It could but it's just a bit weird that a dedicated plains-hunter has to stay close to the woods to avoid being ran-down by its herbivorous rival. It's just a weird design but not exactly the end of the world.

#

If it is still an issue after the next update it might be worth looking into but I think the diets might make it a bit better.

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 11:23 PM

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Yeah, tenontos I hope are still gonna be swamp dwellers

hollow canyon Jul 7, 2021, 11:23 PM

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One of the issues with Tenonto in my mind is that it's one of the effortless animals, meaning that you can grow it by just being afk and paying no attention to the game and putting close to 0 effort.

#

Dryo is the worst offender here, Deino and Stego aren't much better than Tenonto either as they both can be grown in that manner.

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 11:24 PM

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True, but getting good with tenonto definitely takes skill especially with all the moves it has.

Dryo needs a rework/rebalance imo.

hollow canyon Jul 7, 2021, 11:24 PM

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It does but as I've mentioned before - the diets update might make Tenonto's life a little bit harder so I wouldn't touch it for the time being.

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Its juvenile is still rather lackluster and while it's not an issue atm as Tenonto can just sit afk in a corner of the map until its fully grown, it might become a bigger problem when you have to travel around as this animal before it's fully capable.

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This would likely nerf it in an indirect way.

thorn spire Jul 7, 2021, 11:26 PM

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Yeah

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:12 AM

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The main issue with herbivores atm is most carnivores congregate around a few hot spots, and it is too easy to avoid them and hide. Diets will hopefully alleviate that, and the Spire V2 map will hopefully alleviate it further

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The only thing which really ever brings passive herbivores and carnivores into proximity is water, and there are still tons of spots (swamp, NE river) where you can safely drink for days

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:13 AM

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the main issue with herbivores isnt really that, it's the fact that they have nothing to play for and then get swamped by 20 carnis at once

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carnis have something to do, herbis just eat plant and go on kfs sprees because their gameplay is empty, and diets will likely not alleviate that as much as people hype them up for

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:14 AM

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Legacy was more interesting for big herbivores, because there was so little cover you needed to herd to be safe... But then food stress forces you to migrate around

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:14 AM

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it will change from eat bush, to travel across the map to eat specific bush

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nothing should have to group up to be viable, and herbivore herding will likely become harder with diets

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:15 AM

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Utahs are already forced to group, as long as there are options for both solo and group play I don't think that's an issue

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:15 AM

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no, utahs can escape their threats and hunt small game and scavenge easily

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they are viable on their own, they are just much more effective in a group

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:16 AM

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Small game? Like what? AI dryo?

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:16 AM

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juvies, dryos

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a lone utah can solo a stego too if the stego doesnt shove its face in a rock

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:16 AM

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Dryos are quicker, as are juvy carnos

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:16 AM

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the attack is quite easy to dodge

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:17 AM

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Yeah juvy stegs and tenos are an option, but you can't reliably survive on those

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:17 AM

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i bit a stego on the face so many times as a dryo and utah can do the same and kill it

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adult stegos can be soloed if they dont stick their face in a rock

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:17 AM

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Same goes for scavenging, without the legacy carcass mechanics

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Any Steg which lets you bit its face is a noob... And you can't balance on that

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:18 AM

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actually there are plenty of corpses just laying around on active servers

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and not really, stego's attack is pretty sad and easy to smalls to juke, it is horrific against small agile dinos

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:18 AM

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That hasn't been my experience. Any corpses in the open are usually bait by carnos

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:19 AM

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eh different experiences then

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utah can escape its threats while alone, the majority of herbis will be slower than their predators and will also usually be outnumbered

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:19 AM

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Ive only got about 15 hours Utah, most of that in packs, but I've had to rely on charity and luck a lot when solo

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It's rare to find vulnerable juvys in my experience

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And most are new carno players

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:21 AM

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ive ran into a lot of oblivious juvie carnos and deinos especially when playing around as dryo, guess its just happenstance

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a lot of juvies that dont even seem to be paying attention to their surroundings

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just waiting to get kosed

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:21 AM

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The meta atm for most species is to afk until late juvy, so anyone running around as a baby is usually new

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Or with a parent

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:22 AM

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maybe im just lucky, but not really since i was playing herbi, but if i wasn't then it would have been easy pickings as a solo

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:22 AM

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What server? Admittedly I've played a lot on <50 pop

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:23 AM

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was probably official 2, honestly dont even remember

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:23 AM

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My solo carno had to grow on nothing but AI dryo

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On AU

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Never saw a soul

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Happy to get told I'm playing wrong

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:24 AM

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dont put words in my mouth lmao

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i didnt even say that

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:25 AM

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I know you didn't, but I'm also aware that sometimes the answer to "game is imbalanced' is 'you aren't using all the tools you have'

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:27 AM

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utah can be viable on its own as it can easily escape its threats alone and has an array of things it can kill alone, luck or lack thereof isnt really factored in

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especially since the roster is expanding

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:28 AM

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There's a lot of imbalance and things to tweak
Though one could argue herbi's have been the most balanced in the isle rn currently than ever

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:28 AM

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So my experience of solo Utah is hunger is the biggest killer, unless a carno catches you low Stam or in the open... Most of the things I meet are packs, 2-3 carnos or tenos, and I don't have the skill to take that on

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:28 AM

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tenonto is pretty balanced, the others not so much

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:28 AM

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Dryo's are gods, Tenos are in a sweet spot, with the exception of Stego/Hypsi

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:29 AM

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dryo's attack is weirdly high for the fact that its mouth is basically a little pincher, hypsi is an unfinished mess and stego is utah bait

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:30 AM

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Honestly if Stego got an aoe sweep, and the deino matchup was fixed

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:30 AM

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90% of my meals as solo Utah have been carrion or charity from a deino or something

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:30 AM

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Stego would be in an amazing spot rn

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:30 AM

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yeah stego's biggest problem is probably its shitty jab

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:31 AM

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Stego is hard to take on with high ping

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Easy with low, unless they really know what they are doing

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:31 AM

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I think the jab should be reserved for mid tiers and higher

#

High power, but punishing to use like the teno tail slam

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:32 AM

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Steg is the only real FG Dino I can reliably hunt as Utah

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:32 AM

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it should definitely be easier to defend from a faster predator than to attack, the stego has to hope lag saves it or that the utah sucks shit at juking

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:33 AM

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Yeah, Teno can use claw and bite to deal with Utah's or Carno's playing bad

#

Stego is not in that position

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:33 AM

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stego is basically inferior to deino in every way

#

with same growth time

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:33 AM

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It must use it's jab in order to fight, it's like if the Teno's only attack was just the slam

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:34 AM

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sinful cove stego is basically inferior to deino in every way

But with land mobility and easy food

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:34 AM

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tje jab really does feel like a secondary attack

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:34 AM

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Admittedly deino food isn't exactly hard to come by either

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:35 AM

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I don't think we need to really stress about Stego's balance, as a simple additional attack and a matchup with deino fix would solve all of Stego's issues

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:35 AM

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tacit oriole But with land mobility and easy food

deino can sit on land and spin around like a beyblade for 0 stam cost and merk everything, and if it somehow gets itself in a pickle it can swim into water where no terrestrial can fight it. it has easy fish in the river unless that shit broke, moronic carnos are always looking to fight with it so it has no shortage of land prey, deino's only threat is other deinos or its own stupidity

#

stego has nowhere to run, bad attack coverage and lower health

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:36 AM

#

Here's hoping next update

#

Stego becomes Deino's proper kryptonite

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:37 AM

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Just let stegs jab and run at the same time, and balance stamina better

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:37 AM

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Ehh, I don't think that'd solve anything

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:37 AM

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the jab is general shite, it should have a sweep

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:38 AM

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I think the jab should stay, just give it alternatives to make it flexible in combat

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:38 AM

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There should be a sweep like teno slams, animation locked and high Stam cost

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:38 AM

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the jab should stay, but it need s a sweep so it isnt getting soloed by one dryo or utah or forced to shove its face into a boulder to survive

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:39 AM

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The fact that there are rabid dryos out for Steg blood amuses me greatly

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:39 AM

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dryo is a monster right now, its attack should be reduced

#

as hilarious as it is, it's wrong

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:39 AM

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I hope diets let herbivores occasionally snack on meat, just like IRL herbivores

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:39 AM

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its mouth looks like my thumbnail yet its using it to kill stegos and utahs

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certai herbis like ava could probably benefit from that but i dont think tenos need more fuel to go on murder sprees aside from amusement which will always be a motive

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:41 AM

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If Stego gets it's additional attack(therefore becoming more viable against packs), while having it's collision fixed(therefore being a hard counter to bush gators)
This would solve the land Deino issue, and the Stego's questionable viability

#

Two birds with one stone

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:42 AM

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sinful cove certai herbis like ava could probably benefit from that but i dont think tenos n...

True. Maybe some herbis like Hypsi should have harder time finding food, and have meaty snacks to alleviate

#

With risk of illness

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:42 AM

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I wouldn't be against nocturnal dryo

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Come to think of it

#

There is no nocturnal herbies huh

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:43 AM

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tacit oriole True. Maybe some herbis like Hypsi should have harder time finding food, and hav...

making food harder to find only makes the game more tedious, especially when its the same old eat bush boring

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:43 AM

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Nocturnal isn't really a thing atm

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Night is just as easy to see in as day

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:43 AM

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Isn't Dilo going to be nocturnal though

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:43 AM

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hypsi aint eating meat either lol that would be weird as fuck, he can eat bugs

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:43 AM

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Nvm, I got it

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:44 AM

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Hypsi looks like an omnivore to me with that beak

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:44 AM

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i lowkey want dryo and taco to be nocturnal, something about taco just really feels like a night kind of dino

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hypsi eating bugs wouldnt look bad, a lot of herbis could eat bugs honestly

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:44 AM

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Nocturnal Taco and Dryo does feel right though

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:45 AM

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Insectivores would be a really cool mechanic if done well

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:45 AM

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hypsi stamping lizard ai and bugs as supplemential bits

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since small ais like that were mentioned

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:45 AM

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Might get bodied in day, but at night, they can do whatever the hell they want, most carni playables won't touch them.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:45 AM

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i hope taco keeps his burrowing as well, maybe has the most complex burrowing of them all

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burrowing, porcupine quills and nocturnal sight, then he wont be the sad chicken nugget from legacy anymore

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:46 AM

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Having small herbi critters becoming active and making noise at night would breathe some life in the night sections as well

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:46 AM

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and hopefully juvy utahs can still get down the burrows, too

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:46 AM

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id assume anything small enough would be allowed to burrow raid

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:46 AM

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People had trouble with coming up with a niche for Mono

#

I think Mono should be a badger

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:47 AM

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i hear bloodhound mono a lot

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with his big ass nose

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:47 AM

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Being able to dig and snuff out camping burrowers

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While evicting and keeping them as well

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:47 AM

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I'd like to see tracking made easier in the daytime, good visible footprints and blood trails

#

Very hard to follow small dinos atm unless you have top notch sound

#

Or, y'know, no foliage exploits like some people have been caught with

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:48 AM

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I think the foliage and grass helps alot in keeping the smalls more viable

#

Since they might not outrun their pursuers sometimes, they can at least escape if the pursuer messes up their initial attack

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:49 AM

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i think a way to make smalls keep their hiding for viability while making it less of a bitch to track them would be for small animals generally to have better hearing, more highlighted noise, so there arent just big bored idiots going out of their way to kfs some hypsi theiy saw for 0.5% hunger

#

might be a dumb idea tho idk

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:50 AM

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Most rivers have a nice level of cover, it's all the big piles of ferns out on the plains

#

So easy for herbi herds to hide in

#

Well,herds get pack scent if grouped, but otherwise

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:51 AM

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Idk

#

I think it should stay as it is

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 4:52 AM

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hiding is all herbis often have right now, since they are usually outnumbered

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there shouldnt be changes made specifically to stop it

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:52 AM

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The design supports ambush predators, in legacy it was a bitch to get a good sneak up on an opponent
While it also supports smalls and herbis, it gives them room to breathe and escape people attempting to run them down

#

I've lost Utah packs in a chase several times as Teno zigzagging through the jungles and breaking line of sight

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:54 AM

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alpine plover I've lost Utah packs in a chase several times as Teno zigzagging through the jun...

Yeah, it can be really hard to follow when you have to slow to sniff every time you lose LoS

#

Not like a dog IRL which will happily lope and sniff at the same time

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:55 AM

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I think if it was barren as legacy, teno wouldn't be as fun, as well as raising juvies in evrima

#

juvies in evrima still suck, but are miles better than how agonizing legacy was

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:55 AM

#

Legacy was definitely too barren, my personal (uneducated) opinion is it swing too far the other way

#

Legacy had night time to support transiting too

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:56 AM

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In some instances it might

#

Though with more biomes coming, it'll be likely not much of an issue

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:57 AM

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Maybe I just need to accept that the game is balanced around 80+ servers, and that it will get better as new people transition from deino

#

Diets will change all the map meta anyway

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 4:58 AM

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Good chance diets are overhyped

#

We'll see how the execution plays out

#

For now, we just gotta wait on the next update probably in the next month or so

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 5:01 AM

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I've been generally pleasantly surprised with the Dev team so far, I think they have the smarts and drive to succeed were other assymetrical survival games have failed

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 6:40 AM

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Stego is already deinos kryptonite. The matchup is already 50/50 but either side could win easily depending how it happens.

A stego can easily kite a deino and kill it. Deino would be biting the tail, stego would be getting head/body shots. Future caveman did a vid on how many shots each could take from the other.

Deino could win if the stego stood still as it would get in body/head shots with alt bite while the stego is forced to hit the tail.

halcyon harness Jul 8, 2021, 6:45 AM

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thorn spire Stego is already deinos kryptonite. The matchup is already 50/50 but either side...

i win only when stego isn't hittin my face, tbh deino can be better if the hit registration was more optimum in my opinion

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 6:46 AM

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It's not really kryptonite if it's 50/50

#

Stego's have an easier time with Carno's
But Raptor packs would be it's hard counter

#

A Stego could kite, but when it jabs it stays still
Deino lunges forward when it alt bites
Which is why we have cases where it can collision hit it to the head through Stego's body

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 6:48 AM

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True, kiting stego wins...tanking deinos wins.

Depending on how it plays out its kryptonite I just say 50/50 because In the event stego kites deino just loses (stego should always kite) but on the other hand...

Yep, that's why you cant let the deino reach your body, keep him at the tail.

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 6:49 AM

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It'd be more fair if the Deino properly positioned and hit the Stego's head

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 6:49 AM

#

Yes^

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 6:49 AM

#

But that's not the best way for the Deino to take on a Stego

#

It must alt bite it through the ass and break the collision to have the best chance at winning. It's the most viable tactic in the matchup

#

Which is why it's a bit ridiculous

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 6:51 AM

#

Lol, yeah.

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 6:51 AM

#

If Stego got proper collision

#

We'd see a lot less cocky gators contesting Stego's for the fun of it

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 6:51 AM

#

Deino would have a tad tougher time.

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 6:52 AM

#

To be clear

#

I'm fine with Deino killing a Stego

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 6:52 AM

#

Ofcourse

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 6:52 AM

#

Especially if it gets the jump on it

#

But not when it's done in a really stupid fashion

#

It'd be like the tail spike would be the best place for a Utah to pounce and do bonus damage

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 6:53 AM

#

Lmfao

sturdy terrace Jul 8, 2021, 12:38 PM

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I don’t think stego should destroy deinos. The reason being that the fight looks so dumb and takes a minimum effort from both parties. So this fight should be very discouraged.

hollow canyon Jul 8, 2021, 12:43 PM

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I agree that Stego being Deino's kryptonite isn't a very good idea. The situation where a bunch of Stegos just sat at rivers waiting for Deinos to appear wasn't really any better than what we have now.

sturdy terrace Jul 8, 2021, 12:43 PM

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Ive suggested this before but there should be armor and armor piercing damage in the game. Like deino would be heavily armored while stego should do massive AP damage which would do massive amounts of damage to deino while its total damage output stays the same

sturdy terrace Jul 8, 2021, 12:45 PM

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hollow canyon I agree that Stego being Deino's kryptonite isn't a very good idea. The situatio...

That’s because of bad map design and stegos having no reason to go anywhere else. (Im assuming u mean the cancer going on in the shallows and pocket)

#

Something similar would happen to teno and cera once he gets added

hollow canyon Jul 8, 2021, 12:46 PM

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That's mainly what I was talking about yea, but it's just weird when Stego does so well against Deino that the animal ends up being used to actively hunt it.

sturdy terrace Jul 8, 2021, 12:46 PM

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Herbivores going after predators to slow to get away

#

Ye i dont know if they can fix that by balance or if there just have to be rule servers to prevent behavior like that

hollow canyon Jul 8, 2021, 12:47 PM

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I think that Stego should most definitely be threatened by Deinosuchus in one way or another and it shouldn't be a one-sided confrontation at all.

barren shard Jul 8, 2021, 1:45 PM

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We need diets in to help spread this map out

#

Like honestly it’s one of the biggest issues with all the players in either one of two spots around center

harsh wraith Jul 8, 2021, 2:13 PM

#

alpine plover juvies in evrima still suck, but are miles better than how agonizing legacy was

the only difference is that evirma juvies are faster

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:04 PM

#

@crystal stream My personal opinion on your carno Stam suggestions - I think carno Stam is in a good place, and if anything needs a nerf with bites using Stam... But I do think teno Stam or at least sprint time could use some tweaking

#

Typically IRL most big predators rely on ambush and short fast sprinrs, not better stamina to take down prey (wolves aside), and I see carnos occupying that same lion/tiger niche

#

Where I guess the Utah analogue would be said wolves, relying on high mobility and numbers

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

sturdy terrace Herbivores going after predators to slow to get away

Break mechanics should help alleviate that - when there is higher risk in fights people should be less likely to fight when there is no advantage to be gained

#

When a stray bite can cripple a teno and prevent them running away, they won't be quite so cocky around carnos

dawn falcon Jul 8, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

How do you get run down by tenos as a carno

#

Literally just run half the map and crouch

tacit oriole Jul 8, 2021, 4:11 PM

#

I've seen them chase carnos, but never really catch unless the carno already bled all their Stam

#

It's usually tenos picking fights with willing carnos and the just straight winning

#

Same way a stego kills them haha

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 4:57 PM

#

Isnt stego an apex herbivore and deino is a psuedo apex?

#

Lion/tiger niche would be more like allo. Carno is like a cheetah. Gets bullied off of its kill by the bigger mid tiers.

compact gazelle Jul 8, 2021, 7:58 PM

#

ive not had much of a problem dealing with a stego as a deino

#

deinos biggest threat is another deino/ pair of canni

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 8:00 PM

#

Deino bas literally no bad 1v1 matchups at adult

slim dragon Jul 8, 2021, 8:01 PM

#

except deino

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 8:01 PM

#

Thats a 50/50

slim dragon Jul 8, 2021, 8:01 PM

#

That's its worst matchup

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 8:01 PM

#

Bad matchup would be uneven odds

#

So deino is a busted animal

#

Its worst matchup is a 50/50

slim dragon Jul 8, 2021, 8:02 PM

#

What if deino had 60/40 matchup against another deino ?
What would that mean in terms of game balance ?

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 8:02 PM

#

I mean i guess whoever gets the first hit usually wins if that counts

#

So whoever gets the first hit is at a 60/40 advantage lol

slim dragon Jul 8, 2021, 8:03 PM

#

Well yeah
I guess I'm just going to spend the next hours finding a situation where there can be an uneven matchup against two full-grown dinos of the same species, unless they have specific buffs or debuffs

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 8:13 PM

#

Deino isnt busted it's just released early.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 8:15 PM

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No its busted because it can spin around spam biting on land with 0 stam cost and has no bad matchups despite there being another animal in its tier in game

#

It can escape any land threat and has an easy food source despite being a predator

#

While being able to effectively oneshot most of the roster with its special

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 8:24 PM

#

Stego also has no bad matchups currently.

Sure you can give it alt bite stam drain.

Deino actually doesnt oneshot anything, utah can take 2 bites from body.

It's supposed to be able to escape land dinos.

It's not broken, it's just released before its time. It's like adding a watered down rex into the current roster. Ofcourse it has no "bad" matchups, just 50/50s

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 8:30 PM

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Stego has no bad matchups? Wrong, its attack functions poorly against small tiers and unlike deino it can't just flee to some safe space. Stego can be soloed by a dryo or utah if it doesnt stuff its face in a rock and hope it leaves, or unless server lag works in stego's favour or its attacker is a horrible juker.

Deino is well equipped for ambushing from the water with an ability that oneshots most of the roster, yet is also still good at brawling on land. Despite being a semiaquatic he bas better land coverage than most terrestrials.

If deino finds itself in an unfavourable position it can just slink back into deep water, a deino will only die to terrestrials if it wants to.

Despite being equipped to hunt and pvp animals its size it has an easy and steady food source in the rivers so maintaining it is crazy easy

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So this isnt just an issue of incomplete roster, a predator equipped to kill a large array of animals shouldnt have a food source as easy as an herbi's, and a semiaquatic shouldnt be so good on land

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 8:34 PM

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"Stego is bad against small tiers"

Utahs beats anything. If you're skilled enough you can land your attack. Stego can flee to a tree side.

Yes the fact it can feed on fish as an adult and have that option be viable is abit ridiculous. You have that.

Crocodiles are "good on land" in a defensive manner. The best you can do to nerf deino on land should be to make its alt bite drain its stam.

Stego needs a faster and weaker attack for small tiers.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 8:37 PM

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A utah shouldn’t beat “anything” solo, its quarry should scale with pack size, one or a couple utahs and especially dryo shouldnt be forcing a stego to hide its face or be killing it. This is a 6 ton defensive animal vs a 500kg pack hunter and whatever the hell dryo weighs, which is even less

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The fact that one utah can put any 6hr grow dino on the ropes is absurd

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 8:44 PM

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2 utahs can solo anything. Skill and agility beats raw power and hp.

A deino could equally get wrecked by 2 utahs as a stego would (eception being deino wouldn't be getting headshotted and stego would.)

Dryo can put a carnotaurus on the run because of its mobility despite being far weaker.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 8:45 PM

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Utahs can not solo or duo a deino unless the deino allows them to

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2 500kg pack hunters shouldnt be taking down psuedo apexes with relative ease

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It doesnt even require good skill to juke a stego

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 8:50 PM

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Utahs can not solo or duo a deino unless the deino allows them to

You mean if the deino runs away correct (since its about to die)? Meaning 2 utahs beat a deino.

Exactly like I said.

2 500kg pack hunters shouldnt be taking down psuedo apexes with relative ease

It isnt easy, it takes focus and skill.

It doesnt even require good skill to juke a stego

Youd be surprised that the average utah are the ones who die to stegos. It does take skill to know when to commit or exit back out.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 8:56 PM

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The deino can run away into its preferred biome and be immune, stego is forced to hide in some tree or rock and be held hostage while deino is just being made to retreat from an area where it isnt designed to thrive in the first place. Deino has a safe space with easy food access where it also has the ability to oneshot utahs and carnos from out of sight.

Utah players in legacy also claimed assriding a rex took focus and skill, they like to make it sound more badass than it really is. An easy dodgable attack hitbox from an animal poorly equupped to defend itself against smalls, nothing more.

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It also takes a lot more to put a deino on the ropes due to their top notch bleed resist

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The average utah is a pounce spamming moron too, it doesnt take a lot of learning to realize you can just kill a stego with bite only

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:03 PM

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The deino can run away into its preferred biome and be immune

That is where deinos dwell. And you admit that the deino retreating means the utahs would've beaten it.

stego is forced to hide in some tree or rock and be held hostage

Well that is where stegos dwell.

So far all you're saying is "deino is a croc who can swim and stego isnt"

C'mon man.

while deino is just being made to retreat from an area where it isnt designed to thrive in the first place.

Exactly, so deino isnt broken on land as much as you're making it seem.

Deino has a safe space with easy food access where it also has the ability to oneshot utahs and carnos from out of sight.

It cant oneshot them unless it from the head. And carno isnt oneshot period I dont believe. Stego however can oneshot utah and 2 shot carno.

Utah players in legacy also claimed assriding a rex took focus and skill

it does, you are a fool to believe the average utah can just assride a rex. Also this is evrima, where a dino can turn on a damn dime. So false equivalence on your part.

they like to make it sound more badass than it really is. An easy dodgable attack hitbox from an animal poorly equupped to defend itself against smalls, nothing more.

multiple attacks that oneshots you and has a ranges of damn near 360 degrees that has a wind up time of about .5 to 1 second (jab is more like 1-1.5). If you know the utah is committing you can absolutley hit him. That's apart of having skill, predicting your opponent.

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Yes deino has bleed resistance as it should.

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You can kill anything with bite only.

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360 degree range of motion, a stego doesnt have the same weakness as a trike where it cant protect its weakspot (and most likely anky)

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:07 PM

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The deino gets to choose its fights, if it doesnt want to fight a utah or carno pack it can make the decision itself despite being the stronger animal. Deino has better attack coverage than stego so it takes more to actually make one retreat out of defeat and not annoyance.

Stego isnt supposed to sit in one spot with its face in a tree, that is a horrid argument, that would be like saying a deino is supposed to shove its ass in a waterfall and stay there. One case is forcing an animal to stay in spot, the other is driving an animal into its preferred biome where it is invulnerable, free to move and has food and water, not even comparable.

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And you just defended assriding claiming its skillful lmao

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Knowing an easily avoidable hitbox is there isnt skill

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:12 PM

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The deino gets to choose its fights

it doesnt, anything can run away from it.

if it doesnt want to fight a utah or carno pack it can make the decision itself despite being the stronger animal.

Yep, a case of the stornger animal being beaten by skill/number of 2.

Deino has better attack coverage than stego

Only in the sense of speed (actually no, I'd say the speed that deino turns around to a 180 is just about the same as stegos jab if not slower)

Stego isnt supposed to sit in one spit with its face in a tree, that is a horrid argument, that would be like saying a deino is supposed to shove its ass in a waterfall and stay there.

it's called using your environment to your advantage. What you're arguing is that tenonto, carno, stego shouldnt have to stand by a tree not to get pounced on by a utah. Not putting your head IN a tree, but standing by one is what I said.

One case is forcing an animal to stay in spot, the other is driving an animal into its preferred biome where it is invulnerable

currently invulnerable. And again you're making nothing but a case of "but deino can swim and stego cant"

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And you just defended assriding claiming its skillful lmao

Take some random dude (whos average)or you yourself and do it then since it's so easy ;)

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Knowing an easily avoidable hitbox is there isnt skill

"Easily avoidable"

A hit box that covers the entire left side of an animal that extends all the way to the back of the tail "easily avoidable"

By your logic all animals hit boxes are easily avoidable since they are all smaller than rexes. Smh.

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And you're acting as if the rex cant justhit the right side lmfao

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That's why it's considered "hit box abuse"

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:19 PM

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You can't compare deino "biome" to using the terrain, there's using your terrain to your advantage, and there's having an entire "biome" where you're free, which means that deino is one of the few slow animals that can choose to fight or not, barring it's own kind. And deino is by far superior to stego survivability and fighting wise, stegos attacks, barring the fast jab are pretty shitty, whereas deino free alt bite is pretty amazing. Take the same amount of utahs/carnos vs a deino or a stego, the deino will be a far harder fight than the stego, especially if you give them both "terrain" advantage. Deino can go off into water to heal untouchable, stego is locked to a tree or rock and can be starved/dehydrated. Not to mention that deino from water has the lunge to start the fight with at that.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:20 PM

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The deino can choose if it wants to fight, stego can not. Should have been obvious.

The deino isnt beat, it gets to live and thrive, choosing not to fight and then thriving is not a loss. It can not be held hostage unless it wants to.

Deino has better coverage BECAUSE of speed, it can spam its full coverage attack very quickly, and the fact that it drains no stam while doing it makes it worse.

You are really hardest on thinking a stego shoving its face in a rock to defend against a 500kg dino is as good as what deinos have, objectively wrong, the stego can be starved and dehydrated into moving or dying. My case isnt that deino can swim as much as the fact that it is invulnerable from all land predators in the water while having as good of odds on land as stego in most cases.
I assrode rexes with albertos and theris, which are much less agile tjan utahs, dont even bother defending such a shite and easy mechanic lmao. The fact that you think assriding a rex takes skill shows what you think skill is, it doesn't take skill to solo a stego as utah.

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:20 PM

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On top of that, you got all the extra stats the deino has, which means it's by far the stronger opponent, despite being on land, the "biome" it's not at all suited to be on in the first place. Unlike stego who is supposed to be a plains animal, not near rocks or trees all that much at that.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:20 PM

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It takes knowing that the attack can be juked and that is it

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:22 PM

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You could give stego the deinos current stats, health and resist/regen wise, and stego would still have a worse matchup vs the others than deino would, if only because deino can still retreat freely, and has a very useful free attack it can just use, whereas stego will be out of stamina at some point.

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:24 PM

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You can't compare deino "biome" to using the terrain, there's using your terrain to your advantage, and there's having an entire "biome" where you're free, which means that deino is one of the few slow animals that can choose to fight or not, barring it's own kind.

He's the he's comparing them, not me.

And deino is by far superior to stego survivability

Sure, survivability goes to deino because it can run away, it cannot however "pick its fights"

and fighting wise, stegos attacks, barring the fast jab are pretty shitty, whereas deino free alt bite is pretty amazing. Take the same amount of utahs/carnos vs a deino or a stego, the deino will be a far harder fight than the stego

With utahs deino would be harder, but with carnos they definitely have a harder time woth stego.

, especially if you give them both "terrain" advantage.

Who the hell is gonna fight a deino in water unless they themselves are sucho?

Deino can go off into water to heal untouchable, stego is locked to a tree or rock and can be starved/dehydrated.

Stego isnt locked to one spot, there are trees near river if you're so thirsty. You just have to stay near trees (use of terrain) so they dont pounce you.

Not to mention that deino from water has the lunge to start the fight with at that.

And stego cant be brought into he water and it can outrun deino/kite deino.

"It takes knowing the attack can be juked"

Deino gets juked aswell, what's your point?

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:25 PM

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You can't compare deino "biome" to using the terrain, there's using your terrain to your advantage, and there's having an entire "biome" where you're free, which means that deino is one of the few slow animals that can choose to fight or not, barring it's own kind.

“He's the he's comparing them, not me.”

Literally wasnt but ok

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:25 PM

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Again so far yalls only argument is "deino can swim and stego cant"

That's like saying a crocodile can just go in the water while a lion cant do so.

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:26 PM

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Deino can choose it's fights, since it can just go away into water/not go out of it. Stego can not do something similar. Ptera can also choose, seeing as it can fly away, and carno/utah can run from most things (utahs can juke carnos and reach areas they can not).

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:26 PM

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It cant force a confrontation, and it has to stay near water.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:26 PM

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The crocodile can choose that it doesn’t want to fight and then make itself invincible while also being a good brawler on land, that is the point, how hard is that to understand

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:26 PM

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You mean it can retreat from an attacker. NOT force a fight.

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:26 PM

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I don't think you understand what "choosing your fight" means here. It means that if I see you and I don't want to fight you, you can't force the engagement.

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:27 PM

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No other dino can do something similar to deino but ptera

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:27 PM

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No, deino can't "force" a utah or carno to fight, but it can't be forced either, unlike stego.

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:27 PM

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I don't think you understand what "choosing your fight" means here. It means that if I see you and I don't want to fight you, you can't force the engagement.

No, it means "if I see someone I want to kill, they could just avoid me and I'll never catch them"

"Cannot force a fight"

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:28 PM

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There is a difference between choosing confrontations and controlling confrontations

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:28 PM

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Really you gotta stop putting carno in there. Carno gets absolutley shit on by stego while carno has a chance against deino (exception being drowned in the water)

Utahs can beat anything in 2+

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:29 PM

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And deino can do just that, unlike stego. Stego can not avoid the hunters, deino can, barring another deino. And granted, stego can avoid a deino, very impressive, and even then deinos can do serious damage to a stego on land, especially if they ambush, as they can with the bushes, believe it or not. :p

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:29 PM

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Stego cant avoid the hunters, it's not meant to, just like deino cant chase down. It's not meant to.

Stego is slower but far stronger and tankier.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:29 PM

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It isnt tankier TI_Wheeze

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:30 PM

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Carnos can still handle stegos I'm pretty sure, harder, absolutely, but they can still mess about. But granted, utahs are better at it. Carnos can still headbite, just like utah, and unlike utah, they can take the hit and be just fine.

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:30 PM

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I've seen deinos hunt stegos on land, but /10/10 times the stegos just stood still and let the deino bite thier bodys/heads while they hit deinos tail.

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Stego is tankier than utah and carno TI_Wheeze

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:30 PM

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Stego is not tankier, stego is weaker on pretty much every aspect than deino, barring the damage, not counting lunge.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:31 PM

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Not tankier than deino, the one being compared

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:31 PM

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Carnos absolutley cannot take stego less its 2 or more and they take turns baiting.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:31 PM

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Deino is tankier AND has a safespace retreat

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:31 PM

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I think our point here is that deino is superior to stego survivability and fighting wise.

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:31 PM

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I want comparing stego to dieno, I said it was tankier than the other land animals

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:31 PM

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So if you have stego or deino vs the same amount of utahs/carnos, deino will do better 99% of the time

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:31 PM

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And it bleeds like a water balloon

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:31 PM

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Survivability yes because it can run into the water. Fighting wise no, stego only has a hard time against utah.

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Deino wouldn't do better unless it's with utahs.

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:32 PM

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Fightingwise anyway, because deinos attacks are better in general and more effective.

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And it can stay in the fighting much longer at that

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Resist, regen, and no stam on it's very useful attack, unlike stego

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Meaning stego can be worn out a lot easier, and goes down a lot easier, compared to the thing that shouldn't be on land in the first place..

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:33 PM

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Deinos can get baited just as hard as stego.

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Stego doesnt have bleed resist

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:33 PM

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Of course, but a baited swing from stego = less attacks. Baited from deino = nothing.

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Deino has bleed resist, not stego.

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:33 PM

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Well then like I've said at the start of this thing, make deinos alt bite take stam. That's it.

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:34 PM

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You could, but deino would still be better off. Which I guess is what we're debating here. Deino has less bad matchups than stego, deino overall is more survivable than stego, and generally a better choice for fighting, barring some few circumstances.

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:34 PM

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Yeah I said stego doesnt have bleed resist

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Deino would be better off period than other dinos, no other dino can retreat from a fight into the water.

Deino has less bad matchups against anything because it can run.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:36 PM

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Then deino shouldn’t be able to brawl on land

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:36 PM

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Not only because of that, as stated, fighting-wise deino is perfectly fine too. You can fight carnos as deino, pretty well at that. And granted, stegos are better off these days, but still.

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It shouldn't. Deino should have extreme defenses but very little in the way of offense on land really. And stego just needs to be brougth up to proper trike/anky-level of power and all.

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Wonder how people would take it if it was trike being like stego. Or rex or giga for that matter.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:37 PM

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Deino shouldnt have a food source as easy as an herbi's when it is designed to kill a large array of animals, and it shouldnt be good at fighting on land when it has a safespace retreat

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If it was rex it giga then the carni mains might care lol

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:38 PM

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Then deino shouldn’t be able to brawl on land

It can, against the current roster. (Except stego)

Allo would clap deino, cerato could be better than carno at taking it on.

Deino is unviable on land because it wouldn't be able to kill anything as it cant chase anything down.

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It shouldn't. Deino should have extreme defenses but very little in the way of offense on land really. And stego just needs to be brougth up to proper trike/anky-level of power and all.

It has very little offense on land, its restricted to 360 movement in a single spot.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:39 PM

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It can against any animal in the near future, and retreat from anything it doesn’t like

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:39 PM

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No idea why cerato would be better vs deino, where does that come from?

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:39 PM

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And when bigger animals come stego will be 10x as screwed

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:40 PM

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Deino shouldnt have a food source as easy as an herbi's when it is designed to kill a large array of animals, and it shouldnt be good at fighting on land when it has a safespace retreat

Agreed with he first part. Second part it cant fight well on land, it can DEFEND itself against lower tiers on land. Stegos claps deino on land.

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:40 PM

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"restricted", like stego, except with more movement and still better capabilities of fighting in general.

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So I don't know..

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Maybe this should be put to the test by some people that are good with respective animals, see how it goes

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:40 PM

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No idea why cerato would be better vs deino, where does that come from?
@golden coral

The mobility. Carno can barely turn while cerato could, plus cerrato would have more hp and damage most likely.

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:40 PM

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A cerato is smaller than carno...

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No idea why you think it'd have better stats in general

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:41 PM

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And when bigger animals come stego will be 10x as screwed

Wouldn't they buff stegos damage?

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:41 PM

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Deino actually uses its alt bite to somehow bite stego's head through its ass while also dodging headshots

golden coral Jul 8, 2021, 9:41 PM

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But I will grant you that mobility would help, though carnos mobility isn't that terrible I don't think. But yes, cerato will probably be more mobile, but still.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:41 PM

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In an actual fight it stonps stego

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:42 PM

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No idea why you think it'd have better stats in general

Because cersto would have a stronger bite force and it was bulkier than carno. Carno was weaker than cerato in bite force in legacy. It wouldn't make sense to make cerato weaker than carno, idk why people think that.

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 9:42 PM

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Cerato will probably be better geared to fight things in its class than carno, at least it should be since carno is a small game hunter

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 9:42 PM

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If stego kites it beats deino, if it let's alt bite hit the body it loses.

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Think of cerato as the carno that could TI_Wheeze

hollow canyon Jul 8, 2021, 10:20 PM

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Idk if using the legacy stats is a good point of reference at all for how the animals are going to be in Evrima. Ceratosaurus is a smaller animal than Carnotaurus. It's not more bulky either, the devs might change things up for it but in reality this animal was not particularly robust at all whilst having about as much health as Carno in the legacy(and that was at the time when Ceratosaurus was oversized). I seriously and genuinely doubt Cerato will be any threat to a fully grown Deinosuchus(and honestly if it ends up being capable of taking a Deino on 1v1 then that would be good grounds for a nerf to it).

As for Allosaurus - it's still in the oneshot category where it can be drowned by Deino with a single click. It's just not that large, being roughly a tonne heavier than Carno(that is unless the devs go all crazy and give us a Saurophaganax-sized Allosaurus).

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 10:43 PM

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The stats will be revamped down the line anyways as larger creatures later become implemented to account for balance

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And keep in mind the water will eventually no longer become a haven for Deino

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 10:44 PM

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Idk if using the legacy stats is a good point of reference at all for how the animals are going to be in Evrima.

It's not in a way, but it is in another.

Carnos bite force was increased in evrima, this would mean ceratos should aswell. Thus being stronger than carno. (Unless carno gets his bite force decreased to legacy level)
what point is there to play cerato if its weaker, more frail, and slower than carno if it's a mid tier? Carno would just be the better pick.

It should be stronger more hp, but slower. Otherwise carno could force a confrontation and cerato won't be able to do jack.

Ceratosaurus is a smaller animal than Carnotaurus.

Smaller doesnt mean weaker though.

It's not more bulky either, the devs might change things up for it but in reality this animal was not particularly robust at all whilst having about as much health as Carno in the legacy(and that was at the time when Ceratosaurus was oversized).

Well considering carno right now has more biteforce than it should it's fair to say cersto would have more.

I seriously and genuinely doubt Cerato will be any threat to a fully grown Deinosuchus(and honestly if it ends up being capable of taking a Deino on 1v1 then that would be good grounds for a nerf to it).

In a 1 v 1 no, but 2 should def be enough. And I hope you mean a person who's not super good at the game as a single carno could 1 v 1 a deino if its cracked. Thus a cersto theoretically would.

As for Allosaurus - it's still in the oneshot category where it can be drowned by Deino with a single click.

Cersto would be drowned then aswell.

It's just not that large, being roughly a tonne heavier than Carno(that is unless the devs go all crazy and give us a Saurophaganax-sized Allosaurus).

We dont need a saurophag 😂

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 10:45 PM

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The space will become contested with Spinos, Suchos, Barys, and Cherry

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Also I agree, Cerato needs to hold it's own defensively better than a Carno

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Otherwise what? You're gonna make it sprint faster than Carno?

hollow canyon Jul 8, 2021, 11:10 PM

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"2) what point is there to play cerato if its weaker, more frail, and slower than carno if it's a mid tier? Carno would just be the better pick."

That's the main thing - we don't know if Cerato is supposed to be a midtier. On the old roadmap it was referred to as a "small carnivore", while Carno was categorised as a "medium carnivore".

As for why you would play it - it can have a number of other things going for itself. Agility, ability to jump, being a good swimmer and generally capable of traversing any terrain far better than most other animals, while also having a high stamina pool.

I genuinely don't see Cerato having much(if at all) a higher biteforce than Carno(I'd probably put them both at 350N and around 2k health). And yea being smaller means being weaker in the vast majority of cases, this one included.

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Overall there's a tonne of things that can make an animal better or worse in Evrima aside from speed, damage and hp. You don't really have to be faster than Carno to survive it.

thorn spire Jul 8, 2021, 11:32 PM

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That's the main thing - we don't know if Cerato is supposed to be a midtier. On the old roadmap it was referred to as a "small carnivore", while Carno was categorised as a "medium carnivore".

Glad that was the old one TI_Wheeze

As for why you would play it - it can have a number of other things going for itself. Agility, ability to jump, being a good swimmer and generally capable of traversing any terrain far better than most other animals, while also having a high stamina pool.

That wouldn't save it from carno unless it's by water and I dont see the "agility" thing happening for such an animal.

I genuinely don't see Cerato having much(if at all) a higher biteforce than Carno(I'd probably put them both at 350N and around 2k health). And yea being smaller means being weaker in the vast majority of cases, this one included.

Wrong, in legacy cerato has the stronger bite.

Just like hyenas +1100 have a stronger bite than a Bengal tiger +1150 and lions +650 but are smaller.

If you're not faster than carno then you have to be able to fight it in some way.

frosty heron Jul 8, 2021, 11:44 PM

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Well, if we're taking Legacy stats as example yes Cerato had better bitteforce there but still due to the bleed system and the speed Carno was beating Ceras on Legacy

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On 1v1 scenario, anyways since we ain't gonna take those stats for Evrima, Cera should should keep that higher bitteforce and better brawling capabilities as it is the closest big theropod to come to the game and it wouldn't make sense to have a Carno 2.0

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 11:47 PM

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cera should generally be a brawler who punches up a small amount like tenonto does

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if they make it lose to carno while also being slower it is unviable

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size doesnt always win the fight, especially since the size different here isnt a lot

frosty heron Jul 8, 2021, 11:49 PM

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Not lose but both should be in good terms for each, Carno taking hits from a Cera should be worse for it but Carno is faster so maybe a 1v1 is not gonna likely be viable but 2v1 should, anyways people seem to forgot that Carno is the heaviest mid tier or "pseudo" in the list

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 11:49 PM

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Honestly brawler Cera sounds much less of an issue to balance

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For it to rely on water and agility it'd essentially be a weaker Dilo

frosty heron Jul 8, 2021, 11:50 PM

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While it should hunt the small game, 1.8 ton animal is not a joke

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 11:50 PM

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if a carno gets the jump on cera with a successful charge it should probably turn in carno's favour, but it should get its ass beat in a straight up brawl

frosty heron Jul 8, 2021, 11:51 PM

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The Cera balance would depend if we gonna have 1.6 ton Cera or the smaller one (think it was 1.2 tons?)

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 11:51 PM

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tenonto and cerato should both be kicking a carno's ass in a straight up brawl

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how much is carno rn, 1800 or 2000

frosty heron Jul 8, 2021, 11:51 PM

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sinful cove if a carno gets the jump on cera with a successful charge it should probably tur...

That's what I thought

frosty heron Jul 8, 2021, 11:51 PM

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sinful cove how much is carno rn, 1800 or 2000

1.8

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 11:51 PM

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If Carno plays smart, then yes it should have the upperhand

frosty heron Jul 8, 2021, 11:52 PM

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Still has 2000 hp

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 11:52 PM

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But generally as Cera would be forced on the defense, Cera would have an easier time in the matchup

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 11:52 PM

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imo carno vs teno/cera should be 40/60 disadvantage for the carno without charge

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 11:53 PM

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Hmm

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I think I agree

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 11:53 PM

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if carno gets a well deserved bite nerf and charge buff the odds might shift even more

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 11:54 PM

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Carno's speed allows it to control confrontations
If they're 50/50 matchups, then it's overall still skewed to the favor of Carno
If the Carno wants to close the window on it's matchups, it should use it's charge in an ambush attack

frosty heron Jul 8, 2021, 11:54 PM

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I wouldn't touch Carno bite until we have a better roster of playables, is the only big theropod in the game currently, Cera is coming a bit late

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 11:54 PM

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yeah with an expanded roster carno should be changed but he is fine while he's the only sizeable land pred and there arent a lot of different smalls

frosty heron Jul 8, 2021, 11:55 PM

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There's priorities imo like nerfing Deino stupid alt-bite

spare badger Jul 8, 2021, 11:55 PM

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sinful cove imo carno vs teno/cera should be 40/60 disadvantage for the carno without charge

That's a good idea

sinful cove Jul 8, 2021, 11:55 PM

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when both pachy and galli are out maybe it could be done then, or even waiting for another mid tier predator to be out as well

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a true mid tier

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 11:56 PM

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Sucho and Cera could resolve a lot of balance changes if they were to be implemented

frosty heron Jul 8, 2021, 11:56 PM

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We need Allo TI_Succ

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 11:56 PM

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Cleaning up a lot of raptor packs, carnos, and deinos safe space being invaded

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Though for now, I think they should focus on making the smalls and the mechanics firstly

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Then they can think about mid tiers and balance

vagrant mural Jul 8, 2021, 11:58 PM

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alpine plover Cleaning up a lot of raptor packs, carnos, and deinos safe space being invaded

sucho is gonna get fucked by deino so hard

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if its added in the current state anyway

alpine plover Jul 8, 2021, 11:59 PM

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It'd clean up the subs and juvie deinos though

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And also contest the fish spawns

spare badger Jul 8, 2021, 11:59 PM

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vagrant mural sucho is gonna get fucked by deino so hard

I don't think so

alpine plover Jul 9, 2021, 12:00 AM

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Sucho would also be a menace to packs as it'd move on land to steal kills from Carno/Utahs

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 12:00 AM

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Cause sucho is gonna be much faster on land, and probably too heavy to lunge. (Even if it's light enough it can probably hold its breath for a while.)

alpine plover Jul 9, 2021, 12:02 AM

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A Cera would be an icing on the cake
As it'd likely pose serious competition for Carno's or cocky Utahs

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 12:02 AM

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thorn spire > That's the main thing - we don't know if Cerato is supposed to be a midtier. O...

Hyena doesn't have a stronger bite than a lion or tiger in terms of absolute numbers. Their biteforces are only higher relatively to their bodymasses, meaning that if you had a hyena that was as large as a tiger or a lion then it would be capable of having a stronger bite but since the animal is actually much smaller than either a lion or a tiger its bite is actually weaker. Jaguars are also a part of this common misconception. They do not actually bite harder than lions or tigers, in reality their bite is weaker than those of their bigger cousins.

Not that this matters all that much since Cerato itself had a rather pitiful bite compared to most other theropods(I'm not sure how it fared compared to Carnotaurus but to my knowledge its biteforce was likely less impressive than the bite of a Carno).

And regarding the legacy Cerato I really don't think that bringing it up does the animal any good considering what a pitiful playable it was all around. Matter of fact Carno was one of the animals that had an easy time oppressing it.

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 12:03 AM

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Cerato should be bulkier, a brawler like a Tenontosaurus. Both should beat up a carno 1 v 1

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 12:04 AM

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Depends on how large Cerato ends up being. A 1.3t theropod shouldn't be beating one that's heavier by half a tonne in a straight fight. If we get a 1.6t Cerato then that becomes more palatable.

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 12:04 AM

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Eh, a honey badger type cerato would be great tho lol

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A damage nerf to carno is on order once these guys come out I think

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:05 AM

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Aken wdym? Hyena definitely has a stronger bite than lion, that's isnt body size.

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 12:05 AM

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It doesn't

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It's not really the right place to discuss this, we can move this to offtopic if you want but yea a hyena doesn't actually bite harder than a lion

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 12:06 AM

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It's measured in pressure per square inch

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So I mean kind of

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?

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 12:06 AM

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as for Carno - it shouldn't receive a biteforce nerf of more than about 10N unless you nerf Tenonto and Utah along with that.

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 12:07 AM

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I don't see that being necessary

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 12:07 AM

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Carno is currently one of the better balanced animals in the game, nerfing it would require a set of nerfs to most other animals

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:07 AM

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A lion is 1300 N and hyenas are 4500

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 12:07 AM

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Teno and carno have a very even matchup, which I think should be in tenos favor anyways. Cera v teno should be even

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:08 AM

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Cera being stronger than carno would beat tenonto

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The only reason tenonto fights carno is because it cant run, it'll run faster than cerato.

alpine plover Jul 9, 2021, 12:08 AM

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Though Tenoto outrunning Cera would need to be a thing

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 12:08 AM

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Maybe

#

Could it be
Carno < Teno < Cera

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:09 AM

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Though the tail stun would effect cersto more than carno

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 12:09 AM

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It would be the same amount of time

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I think

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 12:09 AM

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No, it wouldn't

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:09 AM

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I say carno beats tenonto equal skill, but sure.

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 12:09 AM

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Cerato would get flattened by that - its weight is smaller than that of a Tenonto which means that it would end up on the ground instead of just staggered

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 12:09 AM

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Right

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Well because teno is slower than carno it should be stronger for game balance

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:10 AM

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I dont see tenonto smashing magy tbh, but it could be a quadapedal to bipedal thing

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 12:10 AM

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Maybe

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 12:10 AM

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I can absolutely see Tenonto smashing a Magy

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:10 AM

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Lmfao

golden coral Jul 9, 2021, 12:11 AM

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Poor magy.. :p

alpine plover Jul 9, 2021, 12:11 AM

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Fodder even to it's fellow pseudo mid herbi

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 12:11 AM

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Even tho carno is bigger than both cera and teno it needs to be weaker cause of the speed difference

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:11 AM

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I mean, magus out here pushing down creatures that wiegh more than it and tenonto just says nope TI_Wheeze

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 12:11 AM

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Same goes for Cerato actually - if it ends up being much bigger than initially intended it just obliterates Magyarosaurus which is meant to be its... rival I suppose?

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:11 AM

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For game balance magy wouldn't be squashed.

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 12:12 AM

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Likely

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:12 AM

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Magy would have to game balance wise be either equal to cerato or a tad stronger as it has to be the one on defense

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 12:12 AM

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Evrima isn't like the legacy - you don't need to be faster than something that's stronger than you. Before update 3 hit Dryo was slower than a Utah and yet surviving a Utah was not an issue for a Dryo that was any good with the animal.

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Same goes for Utah and Carno, or Dryo and Carno.

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:13 AM

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It's because dryo is so small and fast it can lose sight of utah. But now it's faster and has a dodge

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 12:13 AM

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If the game was like the legacy then yes you'd be right and any animal that's both weaker and slower would be unviable.

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It had dodge from the get-go, it's always just been a really bad mechanic.

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:13 AM

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Magy isnt near tenonto speed I dont believe, tenonto out runs allo

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Even if they crancked it

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 12:14 AM

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Yea magy isn't anywhere close to tenonto speed. From what I recall someone was estimating based on its animation that it moves at around 35km/h... which is slower than a Hypsi.

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Don't quote me on that number though

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it might be wrong

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:14 AM

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Magy will have to stand tall against tenonto XD

halcyon harness Jul 9, 2021, 12:15 AM

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magy just looks like fun to play tbh

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:15 AM

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Well in the animation the background I heard isnt a tell of speed.

halcyon harness Jul 9, 2021, 12:15 AM

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more sauropods the better imo

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 12:15 AM

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I see magy as a cc knock them down and run. With the bigger foes.

Amarga is the true king. Magy can be the prince.

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 1:21 AM

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@runic gale Why we need sucho imo

runic gale Jul 9, 2021, 1:23 AM

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@spare badger Im not sure if i said Sucho in my comment but that was what I was thinking!

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Sucho would be the perfect addition at this point lol

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 1:24 AM

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You didn't, but we need it

sinful cove Jul 9, 2021, 7:45 AM

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doesnt teno's alt already drain stam

vagrant mural Jul 9, 2021, 7:45 AM

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No

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For some reason

sinful cove Jul 9, 2021, 7:45 AM

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o dam never noticed

vagrant mural Jul 9, 2021, 7:45 AM

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And it sucks

sinful cove Jul 9, 2021, 7:45 AM

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its in a much better spot than deino tho at least

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deino is busted af

runic gale Jul 9, 2021, 1:45 PM

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Just a reminder, I think adding a playable sucho would bring much needed balance to the game.

edgy grove Jul 9, 2021, 3:59 PM

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rock paper scissors combat balance is poopy and stinky and unfun

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 4:00 PM

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^ skill based is better.

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 5:13 PM

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The claw doesn't use Stam so tenos use it when their out or fighting Utah's but not when fighting carnos

runic gale Jul 9, 2021, 8:55 PM

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To me its just adding more difficulty for the Deino. Carnos take down Deinos in pairs, some Deinos dont even want to risk it (but most do lol) - Suchos would be stronger, more weight, more able to compete in water.. possibly not able to be grabbed since its size.

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Suchos are not Bary's.. they are much bigger animals

sinful cove Jul 9, 2021, 9:02 PM

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There is barely any difficulty to deino rn

runic gale Jul 9, 2021, 9:02 PM

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I understand it's not a perfect solution, and the dieting system will help with the balance.. and I know they want to implement mechanics before adding dinos that might use said mechanics.. so really I might just be dying for a new Sucho because, well, I'm a Sucho main and I love me some Suchos haha

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(& I worried they might nerf it)

sinful cove Jul 9, 2021, 9:07 PM

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Would love to have our chill sucho back beating juvie-sub deino asses, he is probably too slow to damage the ecosystem much unless he is drastically changed from is place in legacy

vagrant mural Jul 9, 2021, 9:08 PM

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Me, a deino, just camping fishing spots to dunk on random suchos (they cannot compete with a full adult)

runic gale Jul 9, 2021, 9:12 PM

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In water? Maybe not

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Or in-water gameplay will be different once more water dinos will be added. I mean, they cant just add a bunch of water dinos with how things are right now haha

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deinos will still be the only things in the rivers 😄

broken orbit Jul 9, 2021, 9:33 PM

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make sucho able to cancel a deino lunge with a well timed slap easy fix imo

thorn spire Jul 9, 2021, 9:56 PM

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Considering deino is a pseudo apex it definitely shouldnt have much difficulty with the current roster.

And would sucho be slower than allo?

runic gale Jul 9, 2021, 9:59 PM

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Yes, as a juvi its basically a target for anything because its so slow.. one hit wonder. But as adult I believe it walks slower and runs slower, but the ambush speed might be a tad faster than Allos sprint? might be wrong, but in my experience it seems to be

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Actually, I think Sucho sprint might be similar to Allos. Like maybe the same

lament cloak Jul 9, 2021, 10:07 PM

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thorn spire Considering deino is a pseudo apex it definitely shouldnt have much difficulty w...

sucho shouldn't absolutly be slower than allo ~~even though it was faster irl but we don't talk about that~~

hallow spire Jul 9, 2021, 10:08 PM

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sinful cove Would love to have our chill sucho back beating juvie-sub deino asses, he is pro...

Lmao yea sucho and cerato definitely gonna kill sub/juvi deinos I say cerato too bcuz well

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 10:12 PM

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Sucho will likely be quite a bit slower than Allo - as for irl: I haven't seen any estimates for Suchomimus proper, the one I did see was for Cristatusaurus which might be synonymous with Suchomimus however it's overall the smaller of the two. Baryonyx was even faster than that so I'd presume that the larger size of Suchomimus would likely make it run slower than Cristatusaurus. As for Allo's estimates - these guys seem to get faster the bigger they get.

lament cloak Jul 9, 2021, 10:14 PM

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hollow canyon Sucho will likely be quite a bit slower than Allo - as for irl: I haven't seen a...

yeah idk if sucho was actually faster, its just something @short estuary said and I trusted him like the idiot that I am because he has a purple name 🙂

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 10:22 PM

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He said that because he repeated what I said when I was quoting Larramendi. Here's the source:

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It may have been faster or slower than Allo but I don't think we can say anything with any degree of certainty. Saurophaganax gets to a greater speed than Cristatusaurus according to the same source.

lament cloak Jul 9, 2021, 10:25 PM

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hmm, interesting.
well allo better be faster for the purpose of the game

hollow canyon Jul 9, 2021, 10:26 PM

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It most likely will be faster, Sucho was stated to be a rather bulky and slow animal from what I recall.

spare badger Jul 9, 2021, 11:18 PM

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Sucho moves at 35km/h irl I think

#

Suchomimus Tenerensis

runic gale Jul 9, 2021, 11:42 PM

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Spinosaurids are so cool.. the Apex's of the sea ❤️ lmao

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 12:01 AM

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Me when deino is a true apex

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 12:04 AM

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deinos always kill their own

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 12:05 AM

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Doesn’t matter if they’re hungry or not

thorn spire Jul 10, 2021, 6:33 AM

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(C) Apply the same body-part system for damage to bleeds - tail bleeds should be far less significant that body bleeds.

I only disagree with this one. Bleeding out is bleeding out no matter where. The only thing I can see that would be locational in bleeding is perhaps the neck with the jugulars/carotid artery. Otherwise bleed should be the same anywhere else.

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 6:37 AM

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Not really, different parts of the body are much more prone to blood loss than others

#

Especially when it comes to things like tails

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:53 AM

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Y do u all hate utah so much, jesus I already as a main get 3-4 clapped by a carno / deino 2 shots us / steg 1 taps / teno wacks us down we insta dead / bucking 5 ticks at max and we have 0% stam and its been debuffed SO MANY TIMES. What the sheeet? worst of all its alt uses stam, but a deino doesnt or some crazy thing like that

#

reminder that their hitbox also yeets back to their tip of the tail so their tail hits are body hits

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 8:54 AM

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Utah should be high risk and high reward for smart pack coordination

#

It shouldnt be tanking shit

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:54 AM

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^ yeahhh

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we dont tank shit, we never want to

#

if u tank shit ur a dumbazzeee

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 8:54 AM

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Why conplain that it gets killed in few hits

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:54 AM

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indigo vigil reminder that their hitbox also yeets back to their tip of the tail so their tai...

.

#

and their grossly debuffed

#

as well as tenonto

#

all the other carnis are grossly fattened

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 8:55 AM

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What lol

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:55 AM

#

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 8:55 AM

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Just go away from tenonto its slower than you

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:55 AM

#

carno real life weight

#

mf.

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what oily deinos do carnos eat to be such chunkers

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 8:56 AM

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Is that legacy carno weight

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:56 AM

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sinful cove Just go away from tenonto its slower than you

whats the point in having a pred who cannot even defend himself from a single herbi that isnt a hypsie

#

#

my bro

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 8:57 AM

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Wtf

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:57 AM

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MHM

#

and it spins around like a balleryna I tell u

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 8:58 AM

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indigo vigil whats the point in having a pred who cannot even defend himself from a single he...

What would be the point of playing tenonto if you get clapped by a single utah

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:58 AM

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dude.. go general 1 and let me show u smtg

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:58 AM

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sinful cove What would be the point of playing tenonto if you get clapped by a single utah

u d o n t

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 8:58 AM

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Btw also utahs can solo tenos it happens

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:58 AM

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we never wanted a solo utah to clap a teno

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:58 AM

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sinful cove Btw also utahs can solo tenos it happens

IF its a dumb one that has 1h on the game, maybe

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 8:59 AM

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I like the idea of a good solo Utah being able to take out a dumb solo teno

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:59 AM

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I honestly dont care about tenontos too much, we just dont want other stuff so overweight

#

and utah underweight

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 8:59 AM

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The only thing wrong with utah is its voluntary disengage

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:59 AM

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vagrant mural I like the idea of a good solo Utah being able to take out a dumb solo teno

yeah!

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 8:59 AM

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And yes if the teno is braindead it deserves to die

primal token Jul 10, 2021, 8:59 AM

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@indigo vigil if the Utah has skill I dont see the problem...

primal token Jul 10, 2021, 8:59 AM

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sinful cove And yes if the teno is braindead it deserves to die

yup

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 8:59 AM

#

jonas.. I main this shit 2k hours and about 7 hours a day

#

training every day

primal token Jul 10, 2021, 9:00 AM

#

and?

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:00 AM

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Dude every day

#

TI_Trollge

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:00 AM

#

dude

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:00 AM

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This reminds me of that guy who “trained to ride apexes” in feedback a while back lmao

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:00 AM

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sinful cove This reminds me of that guy who “trained to ride apexes” in feedback a while bac...

You got those vibes too?

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:01 AM

#

sinful cove This reminds me of that guy who “trained to ride apexes” in feedback a while bac...

Oh no def they shouldnt clap apexes

primal token Jul 10, 2021, 9:01 AM

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You cant ride shit anymore

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:01 AM

#

but like, a carno? 3 should win in a 3v1

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:01 AM

#

primal token You cant ride shit anymore

I dont..breh

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btw, next thing I love

#

primal token Jul 10, 2021, 9:01 AM

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So I dont know how it reminds you of that

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:01 AM

#

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:02 AM

#

The deino is inaccurate

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:02 AM

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Our deino is pretty small by deino standards yeah

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:02 AM

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New deino specimens are heavier than the isle deino

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:02 AM

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Or inaccurate

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:02 AM

#

w h a t?

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:02 AM

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Isn’t deino like 10 tons now

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:02 AM

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I think so yeah

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:02 AM

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No?

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:02 AM

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Fucking Jesus

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:02 AM

#

send me some type of link to facts

#

from a professional website

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:03 AM

#

Aight I’ll see what I can do

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:03 AM

#

Either way that though, from results that are official - ALL the bloody counters to utah is overly buffed and utah is debuffed

#

weak bite, 3% dmg on a carnos head with normal bite.. like cmon
6% with an alt, or something

#

I get it doesnt have the power to clap everything 1v1, but it should be able to protect itself in a pack

#

Pounce? SURE. lemmy have a dino with 5 ticks put me to 0 stam and clap my head open

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:05 AM

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Utah can solo stegos rn or force them to shove their face in a rock because their jab attack is easy to dodge, so no not “all the bloody utah counters” are overbuffed

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:05 AM

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sinful cove Utah can solo stegos rn or force them to shove their face in a rock because thei...

h o w

#

Send me a vid

#

plEASE

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:05 AM

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Dodging the slow ass jab and biting the head

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:05 AM

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I want to clap 1v1 stegos

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:05 AM

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Stegos attack is actually so slow you can avoid attacks

#

While being able to bite the head

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:06 AM

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sinful cove Dodging the slow ass jab and biting the head

scopeOG dino science server rn

#

get on

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:06 AM

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Which does triple the damage

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:06 AM

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Ill 1v1 u as a steg and u utah

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:06 AM

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Dont use pounce, i almost killed a stego with dryo using headshots until its buddy showed up and made me retreat

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:06 AM

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really?? general 1 vc rn get into the server im on and we can test that

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:06 AM

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And im in bed i aint getting on lol

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:06 AM

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steg's jab is wayy too easy to dodge as utah and dryo, even carno. I wouldnt even be surprised if tenos managed to solo stegos

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:06 AM

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2v1 , me as a steg and u two as utah

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:07 AM

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left scroll steg's jab is wayy too easy to dodge as utah and dryo, even carno. I wouldnt eve...

..3v1.

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:07 AM

#

im fine

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:07 AM

#

I mean I’ve seen it happen before

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:07 AM

#

where??

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:07 AM

#

It’s stupid but it happens

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:07 AM

#

I've had it almost happen to me

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:07 AM

#

Videos, just chilling in game, when you play a flyer you see a load of bullshit

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:07 AM

#

stego is on a timer with how much stam that jab drains, they simply can't afford to miss but against anything agile enough, they probably will

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:08 AM

#

they use like 3% stam

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:08 AM

#

I almost killed a stego as a solo Utah

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:08 AM

#

to tail jab

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:08 AM

#

If it wasn’t for the teno

#

It’s 5%

#

Per swing

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:08 AM

#

2% difference

#

jump on scopeog science server cmon, if u say so

#

I want proof, Ill grow u and all

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:08 AM

#

It’s still a pretty big difference

#

It’s 2 am and I’m busy tomorrow

#

But trust me

#

It happens

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:09 AM

#

bro, if its afk sure

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:09 AM

#

it happens man

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:09 AM

#

Next time you see a solo adult steg as Utah just go for the head

#

And don’t be an idiot and get hit

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:09 AM

#

You might not have seen it yourself, but it happens. Stego is slow and easy to avoid, the tail jab is super predictable

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:09 AM

#

Just look up utah vs stego evrima on youtube theres probably vids of it

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:10 AM

#

5 my ass, its 3

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:10 AM

#

left scroll You might not have seen it yourself, but it happens. Stego is slow and easy to a...

..scopeog science server #2, Ill grow u all and u can be utahs and try to kill my steg

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:11 AM

#

once again, passing. I got stuff to do

#

And once again I'll stress: Just because you personally have not witnessed something, doesn't mean it doesn't happen

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:11 AM

#

7 bites to kill a utah as a stego with a nibble too, on the back of the tail

#

I get that, some people are gods in utah, but its grossly underweight and nibbles are weak as hell, while all other things usually have a weight buff

#

I dont mind if its squishy, its SUPPOSED to be squishy

#

but its enemies shouldnt be able to take 2 claws and a bite to the head and take 3% dmg, or 6

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:12 AM

#

I haven't played much utah so I can't say much, but from what I've heard it seems like it's mostly good, just needs a few adjustments here and there

#

It's not great solo, but is devastating in a pack

#

which is kinda how it's meant to work anyway

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:13 AM

#

left scroll It's not great solo, but is devastating in a pack

man, go try utah.. Im telling you

#

You need to try it personally first to say much :/

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:13 AM

#

The pounce has it's flaws, what with the awful dismount. But it does a lot of bleed

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:13 AM

#

all the utah mains atm are at legacy bc their dino is being beaten with a bat

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:14 AM

#

I still see plenty of people playing utah. It's just not super good solo

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:14 AM

#

left scroll I still see plenty of people playing utah. It's just not super good solo

we arent playing solo

#

im talking 6 people or so

#

and we arent 20 hours players either

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:14 AM

#

Then you absolutely shouldn't be having issues with stuff like carno or teno

#

That many players can deal with both of those animals, easy

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:15 AM

#

and BESIDES ALL THIS.

at the end of the day, stats wise it is s h i t

#

its like a hypo hyspie if it was turned carni

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:18 AM

#

Utah is fine

#

The only thing that bugs people is the dismount

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:19 AM

#

at the end of the day

deinos overweight
carnos overweight
utahs underweight

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:19 AM

#

To an extent I can't say much because I've not played much utah. But the majority of the complaints I've seen people making about it here haven't been with the stats, but the dismount

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:19 AM

#

Utah isnt underweight and deino isnt overweight

#

500kg is pretty accurate

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:20 AM

#

Deino is underweight, idk how big carno is, and Utah is at a pretty normal size

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:20 AM

#

vagrant mural Utah is fine

how? If u get double bit my a bayblading carno 2 times u are most def dead and if u run somehow, ur hitbox is in ur tip tail

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:20 AM

#

I have escaped plenty of carnos

#

So uh

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:20 AM

#

Use your agility, carno turns like a truck

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:20 AM

#

Idk dude

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:20 AM

#

utah is significantly more agile than carno

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:20 AM

#

left scroll To an extent I can't say much because I've not played much utah. But the majorit...

dismounts sure is bad, but weight is more important in my buck

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:20 AM

#

sinful cove Use your agility, carno turns like a truck

man, general 1

#

Ill livestream for u

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:20 AM

#

nah. the issues with utah currently stem from the dismount

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:20 AM

#

Weight has bo bearing in combat in evrima

#

Utah has double the hp as his weight

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:21 AM

#

If you somehow let the carno get right on your ass, yeah, then the “””beyblade””” is gonna kick your ass

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:21 AM

#

Deino and stego have less hp than their weight

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:21 AM

#

sinful cove Utah has double the hp as his weight

so do all the other things?

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:21 AM

#

indigo vigil so do all the other things?

Wrong

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:21 AM

#

People aren't using the pounce as much currently, because even if you pull it off properly you might get killed. But pounce is meant to be utah's main weapon

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:21 AM

#

sinful cove Wrong

proof

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:21 AM

#

left scroll People aren't using the pounce as much currently, because even if you pull it of...

5 ticks, ur stam 0%

#

of buck

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:22 AM

#

left scroll People aren't using the pounce as much currently, because even if you pull it of...

The pin is still pretty helpful

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:22 AM

#

it is yeah

#

partly because those animals cant do anything against you anyway lol

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:22 AM

#

vagrant mural The pin is still pretty helpful

yeah and shit it can pin is legit only babies / its own species / hypsies / dryos

#

and ptera

#

atm

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:22 AM

#

Oh yeah you can pin pretty big stegos

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:22 AM

#

U cannotttt

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:22 AM

#

For god knows what reason

#

I tested it a while back with a friend

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:23 AM

#

sinful cove Deino and stego have less hp than their weight

proof

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:23 AM

#

vagrant mural I tested it a while back with a friend

proof

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:23 AM

#

Idk man

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:23 AM

#

vagrant mural Idk man

ur proof - "idk man"

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:23 AM

#

The stego was there

#

It was taller than me

#

I pounced it

#

It played the pinned anim

#

Idk what to tell you

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:23 AM

#

Stego hp is like 4500 or something basing on how many headshots it takes deino to kill it with the multiplier

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:23 AM

#

dude it can play a pin animation on an adult teno

#

and the growing stat changes need a rework too

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:24 AM

#

Eh idc

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:24 AM

#

ur using shit mechs to show utahs "playable"

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:24 AM

#

Utah can kill stegos reliably

#

And that’s stupid

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:24 AM

#

If you dont care, why are u in an argument like this one

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:24 AM

#

utahs main issue is just that the pounce is too dangerous to pull off. it's stats are pretty fine

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

vagrant mural Utah can kill stegos reliably

show me a vid, link me one in yt if u want

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

left scroll utahs main issue is just that the pounce is too dangerous to pull off. it's stat...

buck 5 ticks and ur 0% stam

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

yes, hence why I said the pounce is too dangerous to pull off

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

https://youtu.be/MuoSmNqKf4c

YouTube

ScopeOG

SOLO UTAH Takes On A STEGO | The Isle: Evrima Gameplay

LIKE and SUBSCRIBE with NOTIFICATIONS ON if you enjoyed the video! Check out my Discord, Twitch, and Twitter below!

DISCORD ➔ https://discord.gg/pDrpXpr

TWITCH ➔ https://www.twitch.tv/scopeog

MERCH STORE ➔ https://streamlabs.com/scopeog/merch

TWITTER ➔ https://twitter.com/ScopeogTTV

Business Email ➔ scopeogbusiness@gmail.com

▶ Play video

#

Here

#

This stego is ass

#

But it still shows how Utah can kill a stego

#

1 on 1

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:26 AM

#

vagrant mural Here

yeah i know the guy, He has skill of a god

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:26 AM

#

Which is dumb

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:26 AM

#

and isnt fulkl

#

full*

#

Its not full adult

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:26 AM

#

Yes

#

But the same principles apply

#

Don’t get hit, use pounce for pressure, bite the head because the anim is so slow

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:26 AM

#

1.doesnt know how to buck 2.isnt adult 3. doesnt know if he jumps off he can slap scope 4.It wastes its stam like a dumbass

#

Scope has killed ONLY dumbasses in the game

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:27 AM

#

but you can still see how easy it is to dodge

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:27 AM

#

BC its a bloody idiot

#

plz. hop into the server I constantly tell u to and we can test it for u to see

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:28 AM

#

What if

#

I don’t

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:28 AM

#

if u dont, dont act like u know shit u didnt test

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:28 AM

#

not everyone is available at your convenience 24/7

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:28 AM

#

TI_Troll

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:28 AM

#

people don't owe it to you to load up the game and join just so you can prove something

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:28 AM

#

left scroll not everyone is available at your convenience 24/7

alt text me when u can if so. or test it later. u will find it is shitt hard

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:28 AM

#

no thanks

#

i have better things to do

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:29 AM

#

left scroll people don't owe it to you to load up the game and join just so you can prove so...

Im giving u facts and ur giving me insults, what logical argument is this

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:29 AM

#

if you're taking that as an insult that's on you man

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:29 AM

#

and refuse to listen when I backup my facts

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:29 AM

#

left scroll people don't owe it to you to load up the game and join just so you can prove so...

breh?

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:29 AM

#

The only facts you give is that I don’t record my play sessions if I’m being honest

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:30 AM

#

Tell me step by step what to do..

#

I will test it for u

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:30 AM

#

Play Utah, fight an adult stego

#

That’s all I ask

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:30 AM

#

since u dont care about this convo and yet still stick around, so surely u will have the time

#

Fucking alr

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:30 AM

#

I said idc about one thing

#

I must be the worst person

#

Ever

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:31 AM

#

thats the argument - so its all of this

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:31 AM

#

The argument is that Utah can kill stego solo

#

I have seen it multiple times

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:31 AM

#

NOOO???

#

It isnt that

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:31 AM

#

Other people have seen it multiple times

#

Then what is it

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:31 AM

#

what Im saying is utah is underweight and it needs a balance

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:31 AM

#

Because obviously we’re not on the same page here

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:32 AM

#

yeah we arent, bc im testing every day this shit and ur trolling around and guessing mechs u havent tried

sinful cove Jul 10, 2021, 9:32 AM

#

How is utah underweight. How much do you think it should weigh

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:32 AM

#

A utah on average is 500 kg

#

Our Utah is 500 kg

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:32 AM

#

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:32 AM

#

nahhhh man

#

don't trust google

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:32 AM

#

alr next link

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:33 AM

#

Remember folks, google is not the destination. You don't go to a taxi driver to make you dinner, you go to a taxi driver to take you to a restaurant that'll make you dinner. Treat google and sources the same way.

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:34 AM

#

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:34 AM

#

that aint right either mate

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:34 AM

#

what do u use to make this argument

#

whats right if soo??

#

show me a link where its right and show me that its way more popular than these I show

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:35 AM

#

it's not about being popular, it's about being scholarly

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:35 AM

#

yeah how is mine less "scholarly"

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:35 AM

#

Here have this

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:35 AM

#

links w.pedia

#

links w.pedia

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:36 AM

#

Hey man

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:36 AM

#

the one that shows the LOWEST of all the links

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:36 AM

#

wikipedia links academic sources that you can follow

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:36 AM

#

^

#

Also

#

Google search 1st results

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:36 AM

#

mk go on?

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:36 AM

#

Shows that spino is the most ferocious herbivore

#

So honestly

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:36 AM

#

ok the hell this topic jumping on

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:37 AM

#

if anything utah is technically overweight

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:37 AM

#

alr so let me put utah away for a second if u dont like my facts

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:37 AM

#

Only the largest estimates of utah reach 500kg

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:37 AM

#

how u gonna tell me that carno isnt overweight

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:37 AM

#

In reality the average was probably smaller

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:37 AM

#

bruh

#

what I just showed u a minute ago

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:37 AM

#

that 770kg one? Link me, I'm curious

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:38 AM

#

https://theropods.fandom.com

Theropods Wiki | Fandom

#

oh ffs..

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:38 AM

#

right. A fanmade wiki

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:38 AM

#

https://theropods.fandom.com/wiki/Utahraptor

Theropods Wiki

Utahraptor

Utahraptor | Theropods Wiki | Fandom

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:38 AM

#

which I can promise you, is gonna be even less reliable than wikipedia is

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:39 AM

#

even if so

#

tf u gonna tell me when I say y tf is a carno 3.5ton

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:39 AM

#

https://www.academia.edu/225747

A large dromaeosaurid (Theropoda) from the Lower Cretaceous of East...

Academia.edu is a platform for academics to share research papers.

#

There we go

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:39 AM

#

yeah, that's the original paper that gives the 500kg weight estimate iirc

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:39 AM

#

There are the original estimates for 500 kg

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:39 AM

#

and it's been called into question since then, suggesting it should be even lower

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:40 AM

#

indigo vigil tf u gonna tell me when I say y tf is a carno 3.5ton

alr - Ill shut up about utah now ig but NOW PLZ. change my mind in this

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:40 AM

#

I've got no clue what weight in-game carno is, not that it matters much

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:40 AM

#

since I can work with utah being the way it is if its enemies werent grossly overweight

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:40 AM

#

weight currently only determines whether you can drag something

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:40 AM

#

noooo...

#

nonono...

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:40 AM

#

has 0 bearing on combat anymore

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:41 AM

#

Yeah I have no idea where they got carno weight from

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:41 AM

#

Ima go break my skull on a rock after this

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:41 AM

#

vagrant mural Yeah I have no idea where they got carno weight from

yeah! so like alr.. utah can be weak and all, but its enemies are buffed af

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:41 AM

#

keep in mind that currently carno is balanced to act as the land apex too

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:42 AM

#

it shouldnt be that thoughhhh

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:42 AM

#

it'll likely be made significantly weaker as more of the roster is introduced

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:42 AM

#

But the health value is separate from weight so TI_Trollge

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:42 AM

#

y add an apex so early onn

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:42 AM

#

vagrant mural But the health value is separate from weight so <:TI_Trollge:811957711397978112...

Its health is still mega

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:42 AM

#

it's not an actual apex, just functioning as one

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:42 AM

#

If they didn’t add carno Utah would technically be the land apex assuming nothing bigger got added

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:42 AM

#

an apex animal irl is one with no natural predators. Until anything larger is added, that's now carno functions

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:42 AM

#

left scroll it's not an *actual* apex, just functioning as one

and it ~shouldnt~

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:42 AM

#

Yes

left scroll Jul 10, 2021, 9:42 AM

#

^i was about to add, back when evrima first launched utah was the apex

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:43 AM

#

vagrant mural If they didn’t add carno Utah would technically be the land apex assuming nothin...

deino..

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:43 AM

#

Deino is the apex of the water

#

It exists in a grey area

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:43 AM

#

legacy is keeping utah mains in it due to yalls and shit like this

#

it fucking dont act like it

vagrant mural Jul 10, 2021, 9:43 AM

#

Also

indigo vigil Jul 10, 2021, 9:43 AM

#

it doesnt use its stam for alt, which I despise