#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 262 of 1

grave veldt
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it only has poor stam if u run

pearl elbow
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Nope

grave veldt
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yes

hollow canyon
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yes

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literally every single one Utah that pounced me today died the moment they'd disengaged the pounce

grave veldt
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alt bite doesnt take any stamina and u can just spam it also any utah that pounce a deino will get hit

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atm at least

hollow canyon
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I wouldn't recommend spamming the alt bite tbh

grave veldt
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same especially the behind alt bite

pearl elbow
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Yes, but i am saying that you cannot stroll across the map at your heart content and be invincible

hollow canyon
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Well yes, you're right about that, you will probably start dying of thirst while making the way from the swamp to the pocked

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Because Deino does have a pretty bad thirst timer but that's less of an issue with other playables but more so the fact that it just can't travel such long distances without having access to water.

pearl elbow
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So, there is another reason to play terrastrial

grave veldt
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i think that part of deino is fine as it makes it stay near water like it should be doing

pearl elbow
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So, a carno or utah, or any prey item a deino is tracking just has to trot away and the deino can't do jack

hollow canyon
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You don't really track people with Deino, you just oneshot them

pearl elbow
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yes, you can do

hollow canyon
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either that or you usurp their kills on land while they can't really do anything about it

pearl elbow
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stego calling in the distance follow the river to it

hollow canyon
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Then you just wait for it

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to come for a drink

grave veldt
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tracking and hearing a noise and following where the noise came from arent the same thing

pearl elbow
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yes, but if you are not at the right spot you have to travel so pretty much tracking

hollow canyon
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not really, that's not tracking, tracking is following something's footsteps which you don't really do as Deino. I mean I've done it a couple of times but it doesn't work really well aside from the situations where you're going after another Deinosuchus

grave veldt
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but forget the tracking thing point is deino is way too good atm and should hopefully be looked at eventually

pearl elbow
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But, even still watching a prey item move towards your water patch and you have to move to the other side of the lake is tracking when you see it

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or smell it's footsteps

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there is still tracking

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following a stego down river, tracking

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listening to noises is just another form of tracking

hollow canyon
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Deino does that just fine, it just can't really follow something in land hoping to catch it

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but that's not really a big advantage for the terrestrial animals

pearl elbow
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So, that is why you would play a terrestrial

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we got there

hollow canyon
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To walk after something rather than kill it on the spot?

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Why?

grave veldt
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the main point of deino being too good rn still stands

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why would u be stego when technically deino does stego but better rn

hollow canyon
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^

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deino does everything a Stego does just better

pearl elbow
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at water, yes it is of course. but, not on land

grave veldt
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yes on land too

pearl elbow
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nope

grave veldt
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and thats the main issue

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yes

pearl elbow
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stego

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by far

grave veldt
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no stego has a 50/50 with it on land mind u when it should have the fight way more in its favour

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if their all at the same skill level

pearl elbow
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Nope

grave veldt
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yes

pearl elbow
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No

grave veldt
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the proof is there all the time

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ive seen deinos fight off a 15 utah pack by itself on land

pearl elbow
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a stego can just walk way on land, it beats on land, even the best deino can't fight a stego away from the river when both are good

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the stego, has sooo many options

grave veldt
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thats not the point tho stego when fighting a deino on land not running away should be held in its favour

pearl elbow
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A stego, can fight off just as many

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when good

grave veldt
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no thats cap

pearl elbow
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Nope

grave veldt
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if the utahs and stego r at the same level i reckon max a stego can take on around 4-5 utahs

pearl elbow
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well you clearly need to see some better stegos

grave veldt
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this is mainly a stego issue but thats a whole other topic

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i dont need to see a better stego

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ive been playing stego for quite awhile

pearl elbow
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then you need to practice

grave veldt
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stego is a different topic tho

pearl elbow
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well i have already my point

grave veldt
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everyone needs to practice

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but thats not the point here

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deino has way too many positives

pearl elbow
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From the start the point was why play anything else than deino when everything loses to it

grave veldt
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and its just arguably better

pearl elbow
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i have proven that ain't true so

grave veldt
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well i got into the chat later in so i dont know what the starting point was

pearl elbow
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there is a reason to play terrestrials

hollow canyon
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You haven't made a point though

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a Stego has a limit on how many animals it can fight off

pearl elbow
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Aken you just forgot your own point

hollow canyon
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it goes out of stamina after ~20 swings

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Deino doesn't

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it handles animals on land better than Stego does

pearl elbow
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yes, but stego can kill a deino with 3 headshots

hollow canyon
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it can't

pearl elbow
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3 or 4 maybe if a shot is off

grave veldt
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no its a 4 shot

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and deino can do the same thing

hollow canyon
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^

grave veldt
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deino can actually do it much much easier

hollow canyon
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Sheev, you're just in denial to a certain extent. Stego is worse on land than Deino against all the other animals in the game

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meanwhile they have a 50/50 match up against one another

pearl elbow
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No it isn't

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a stego on land

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can kill a healthy adult deino even when the stego is injured

grave veldt
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it is and if ur denying it then ur just ignoring us

hollow canyon
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a healthy adult Deino can kill a Stego half the time anyways

pearl elbow
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A stego, who doesn't know how to kill a deino maybe, but a stego, can still kill a deino on good terms

grave veldt
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never said stego cant kill a deino

hollow canyon
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so? a Deino can kill a Stego on good terms as well, Stego has to drink, Deino doesn't have to go on land

grave veldt
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but the fact that its a 50/50 on land is an issue

hollow canyon
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Deino meanwhile handles literally every other animal in the game better than Stego does

pearl elbow
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stego can drink in safe spots

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avoiding the deino

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A utah can solo a stego

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with very little damage taken

hollow canyon
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it can't solo a Deino though

pearl elbow
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Maybe

grave veldt
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utah shouldnt be soloing anything in this game except hypsi dryo and ptera

pearl elbow
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It can also solo teno

grave veldt
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doesnt make it balanced

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ur just proving our point tho

pearl elbow
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No i am not

grave veldt
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utah can solo a stego but not a deino

pearl elbow
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for different reasons

hollow canyon
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Utah can solo a Stego but it can't solo a Deino, do you see why Deino is better?

pearl elbow
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A carno can kill 4 utahs, but will die to one teno

hollow canyon
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it can also kill a Teno, it's a skill match up

grave veldt
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^

hollow canyon
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quite close to 50/50

grave veldt
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teno and carno is actually the most funnest match up ive done or seen

hollow canyon
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^

pearl elbow
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Not 50/50, 60/40 if both are equal

grave veldt
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no its a 50/50

pearl elbow
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Nope

grave veldt
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if not quite close to one

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yes

pearl elbow
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i have done the testing i know

grave veldt
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if u have done testing then u would know deino is too good

pearl elbow
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It is very good in most match ups, and is a struggle for stego vs deino on both sides

hollow canyon
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I do agree Tenonto might have some advantage over Carno but Carno can still take it out rather easily(if it ambushes it with a charge)

grave veldt
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also not to mention the fact that teno cant run

pearl elbow
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That is an exception

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Just as teno getting the drop on a carno

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Yes, but teno has a great many more options than a lone carno

hollow canyon
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All those things don't change anything about the fact that Deino>>all those aforementioned animals

grave veldt
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^

pearl elbow
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Yes, but deino has drawbacks which hinder it in respect to other creatures

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Making it not so dominant

hollow canyon
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those drawbacks are nowhere near big enough to make it not worth playing over those animals

grave veldt
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its not enough tho

grave veldt
hollow canyon
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It is absolutely dominant over all the other playables

pearl elbow
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More of another kind of threat

grave veldt
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its def more dominant

pearl elbow
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but an avoidable one

hollow canyon
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It's like the argument that the 850N Giga we had at one point "had the slowest running speed among carnivores"... while it could facetank a Rex

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yea it's not running that fast but it's still definitely overpowered

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Deino is exactly in the same spot right now

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where the only thing that really threatens it is another Deino

pearl elbow
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Deino is a deino, it ain't overpowered it is just the apex of the water ways currently

grave veldt
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even if they make alt bite take stam its match up with stego remains the same

hollow canyon
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It is overpowered though

grave veldt
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^

hollow canyon
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the number of things it has going for itself is just astounding

grave veldt
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its supposed to be the apex of the water and yet it seems to be the apex on land as well

pearl elbow
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It is the biggest carnivore, yes we know

hollow canyon
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prolonged hunger, fast healing, fast bleed healing, high bleed resistance, best alt bite in the game which for some reason increases its attack speed, highest hp in the game, easy access to food making it not reliant on other players unlike literally every other carnivore in the game(well maybe aside from Pteranodon)

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It's not just about being big, I haven't even mentioned its damage yet

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nor the ability to oneshot 3 quarters of the roster with a single click

pearl elbow
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yes, but that includes dryo, hypsi, and ptera

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There are no big apex carnivores, on land. We can't down play the mid tiers or small tiers just because they aren't the best

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if every one played the best dino stat wise, is not really a point

teal pecan
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oh wow you're still on it lol

pearl elbow
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they won't give up

hollow canyon
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It's more like we're trying to get you to see that Deino is not in an ok spot right now and denying it is just either being in denial or wanting this animal to remain op compared to the rest.

grave veldt
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^

teal pecan
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they're right tho

hollow canyon
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Let me put it this way - read what I've listed above and tell me why does the strongest animal in the game have this much random stuff in its kit?

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Why does it have the best bleed resistance, why does it have such slow hunger depletion?

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Why does it need that?

pearl elbow
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But that wasn't your point at the start

hollow canyon
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I could understand some of this if all the carnivores had as easy access to food as it has right now but they don't

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It was

pearl elbow
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you can't just change the point you were making

hollow canyon
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It's part of my point - why would I waste my time playing a Carno that takes 15 minutes to heal

pearl elbow
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you were saying why else play anything else

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i accomplished that

hollow canyon
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if I can pick Deino which is stronger, easier to grow, heals faster, gets hungry slower

pearl elbow
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peace

hollow canyon
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You haven't though

pearl elbow
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You afk grow, boring

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utahs don't point made

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again

hollow canyon
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I've grown my first Deino actively

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I've killed a dozen of people before getting full adult

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why? Because a juv/subadult Deino is more viable than other carnivores.

pearl elbow
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Aken you played apexes only on legacy didn't you

hollow canyon
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No, I've played a lot of Dilo and some Allo

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Barely any Rex

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a lot of Giga though

pearl elbow
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Then why play dilo or allo when there stats weren't the best overall

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Point made

hollow canyon
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Because they had other stuff going for themselves?

pearl elbow
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Exactly

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That is what i have been saying ALL ALONG

hollow canyon
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But the stuff that the other animals in Evrima have going for themselves don't justify playing them instead of Deino

pearl elbow
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Yes, they do i have stated multiple reasons

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Do you enjoy, the teno/carno match up

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You Aken

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Enjoy it

hollow canyon
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Dilo had the best night vision, great hunger, fast drinking, albeit slow eating, highest base bleed in the game, it could take out even apexes in the right circumstances meanwhile Deino is untouchable to the smalls like Utahs or Carnos and can murder them with ease. Same goes for Tenontos.

pearl elbow
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You can just avoid deinos

hollow canyon
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Apexes also had their downsides during their growth with Giga being fodder at juvie and subadult

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Deino has an amazing growth as long as it doesn't encounter other Deinos

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Deino is the only threat to Deino

pearl elbow
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you know where they are drink at safe points

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Along with stego

hollow canyon
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meanwhile a Giga or Rex could die to Allos or Dilos or Utahs or whatever else

pearl elbow
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A pack of utahs, a pack carnos, a herd of stegos, a herd of tenos could kill a couple of deinos

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group size btw

hollow canyon
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Aside from a herd of Stegos none of the above is a threat to a Deino

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They can't kill it unless Deino is incompetent

pearl elbow
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yes, carno packs kill deinos all the time, how did five utahs kill an adult deino

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how did tenos kill a deino

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It is possible

hollow canyon
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Probably by riding them or landing hits on them because the Deino wasn't competent enough to punish them for it

pearl elbow
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But, that is not the point

hollow canyon
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That is the point

pearl elbow
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there is always someone better

hollow canyon
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the Deinos that die to Carnos/Utahs/Tenontos are incompetent

pearl elbow
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deino is not overly skill based

hollow canyon
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I'd agree that most animals aren't overly skill based but there are better and worse Deinos

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I've killed like 3 or 4 adult Deinos today as a Deino

pearl elbow
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I have killed two as stego

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solo

hollow canyon
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do you think I've done it with some magic powers?

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Yes I was solo

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that's not the point

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you can be better or worse even while knowing about the alt bite

pearl elbow
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I am well aware, but did you initiate the fight

hollow canyon
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I have, but I have beaten Deinos that initiated the fight on me as well

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once even one that was bigger than me

pearl elbow
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Yes, and so have i

hollow canyon
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The point is that you can be better or worse with Deino while knowing about the alt bite. Not every person that knows about the alt bite is going to utilise it correctly

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There's 0 reason why a Deino should be ever dying to a Utah pack

pearl elbow
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Did i mention alt bite just now

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No

hollow canyon
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No, you have however said that the Deinos die to those packs and I'm telling you that they are bad at Deino

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Like really bad at Deino

pearl elbow
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didn't appear so

hollow canyon
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especially against Utahs that's just... next level of bad because Deino is the best counter to Utah in the game

pearl elbow
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Five killed one next to water, regardless of skill they knew how to fight a deino

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Yes, the deino could have fled

hollow canyon
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The Deino clearly didn't know how to fight them though

pearl elbow
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The general skill level doesn't matter, if a pack dedicated enough with the know how, may kill you

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or any other deino

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and not everyone has the same skills, so we can't use skill as a basis for your arguments

hollow canyon
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I'm still waiting for that pack to finally appear

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Yes, but everyone can get to the skill level that makes Deino a killing machine - this doesn't require some outstanding mechanical prowess

pearl elbow
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I have proven my point

hollow canyon
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It's just knowing when to press lmb really and where you have to be looking at that moment

pearl elbow
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That is just deino

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on land

hollow canyon
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Yes, some people clearly don't have enough experience at that since they die to Utah/Carno/Tenonto packs which in normal circumstances should be turned into minced meat by a Deino or in worst case scenario the Deino might retreat to heal up in water after killing a couple of them and then go back to claim all the bodies.

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In either scenario Deino isn't really threatened with death

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unlike every other animal in the game

pearl elbow
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Doesn't matter, i have proven my point. There is a reason to play other dinos. Deino is also already strong like how stego is strong in the right hands, same for deino. Deino will be challenged later when bigger terrestrials are brought in.

hollow canyon
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There really isn't though, especially Stego

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I've already told you there's not a single situation in which being Stego is preferrable to being Deinosuchus. Deino deals with every match up better than Stego does.

pearl elbow
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How about on land in the middle of nowhere surrounded by carnos

hollow canyon
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I'd rather be Deino than Stego if I was to fight a Utah pack, I'd rather be Deino rather than Stego if I were to fight a Carno pack, I'd rather be Deino over Stego against a Pteranodon flock, against a Tenonto herd, against a flock of Dryos or Hypsis.

pearl elbow
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Stop making these bold accusations

hollow canyon
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Easily Deino

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Stego will go out of stamina after 20 attacks or so and then it will get turned into a kebab by the Carnos

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Deino will just slowly make its way towards the water

pearl elbow
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Yes, deino is like playing with a demon with a safety tether

hollow canyon
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Very likely killing half the Carnos in the meantime if they decide to fight it

pearl elbow
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But, not everyone wants to play the best carnivore, if you just sit in the river and lakes waiting and watching as others do stuff

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The stego will kill a lot more

hollow canyon
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How will stego kill more?

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You don't have to sit in the water. You can go on land as Deino easily, as I said it handles everything that Stego can handle better than Stego while on land.

pearl elbow
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Yes, but not as far as the other dinos

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which is my point

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And with carno slowing you down the deino won't survive

hollow canyon
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It can be on land as far as other dinos it's just that it starts losing hp before it gets back to water if it tries to make the longest route from pocket to swamp iirc.

pearl elbow
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Shallow river a 5 man carno pack killed 5 deinos, on a whole without one dying

hollow canyon
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Yes it will - if I'm in the middle of the map somehow I will make it back to water before I start losing hp

pearl elbow
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But not with carnos on you

hollow canyon
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Again - bad Deinos. I've taken out a pack of 5 Carnos on my own - 3 of them dead, one ran away only one stayed

pearl elbow
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yes, but not everyone is you and not every carno is me, or the best players

hollow canyon
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Yea pretty sure I could do it with Carnos on me, I'd just walk my way and if any of them got close enough I'd do the Deino thing

pearl elbow
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Aken, just stop i have given my point. Deino is strong but there are reasons to play other dinos

hollow canyon
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Like - liking what they look like or enjoying their animations I suppose

lament cloak
pearl elbow
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There are many factors that influence fights boiling it down to that is not right

sinful cove
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If deino somehow cant win with alt bite it can just run into water snd be basically invincible to anything that isnt another deino too

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Its really better than stego in almost every way

hollow canyon
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^

pearl elbow
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Apart from that it can't follow it out into the fields. Group size and more

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Deino in it's element will win outright everytime yes, no doubt. But take it out does give the other creatures an advantage. Yes, extremely difficult.

sinful cove
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Group size does absolutely nothing since there are still big groups of deinos just not in official groups

hollow canyon
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Not that Deino needs a group

pearl elbow
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Yes but, miragaia, that doesn't factor in

sinful cove
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Then group “limit” also doesnt factor in

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Because it is ineffective

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Deino has vastly superior survivability to everything except its own kind

pearl elbow
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Yes, but there is only so much fish and if players drink at shallow and other safe areas

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Currently yes

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Apart from maybe stego

lament cloak
sinful cove
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Except a lot of players actually seek out fight with deinos, mostly carnos from what ive seen, so the player food source isnt an issue in most cases

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O i was beat to it

lament cloak
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so sure, in theory deinos can be forced into cannibalism to feed themselves, but that is only if fish spawns get bugged, and everyone comes together to drink at shallows and actively avoid deinos at all costs

pearl elbow
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Look at this the other day I was growing a stego it was 50% grown, I killed 4 Utah's that cornered me, but when I played as Utah I was able to solo a full stego. Just because one group failed doesn't make it impossible

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A Utah today showed me another way at coming at deinos and it was very effective

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Anyway, I have said my piece enough, yes deino is the strongest carnivore but it is not invincible and there are reasons to play the other Dino's.

hollow canyon
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*the strongest animal

thorn spire
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"Give Dinos the ability too strugle when getting grabbed by a deino just like when ur getting pounced by a utar just with deino. It would be same button. It would NOT drain the deinos stam as much as it drains a utars when bucking because if its like that, deino wount be able to do much."

It should drain the drowned dinos stam more than the deinos, but the lunge drain + drain from struggling would meannit loses stam before u. Imo.

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Yes, even carnos can successfully fend off/hunt a land deino.

"The strongest animal"

In terms of raw power it's barely stronger than the stego and only wins against stego with alt bite + hitting body while stego is hitting tail.

Without alt bite or kiting from the stego, the deino definitely loses.

I think future caveman also did a video on how many headshots it takes for each to kill eachother, u should check it out.

hollow canyon
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If it's "barely stronger" than the stego then it already is the strongest animal since there aren't really any other contenders for that title. Yes, Deino does lose if it doesn't use the alt bite. Just like Carno would lose to a Utah if it wasn't allowed to use its mouse... or how Tenonto would lose to a Dryo if it was meant to fight it without using the keyboard. The point is that Deino not only has a decent match up against Stego, you're all way too focused on that one specific match up which is Deino's worst match up in the game, the point is that it also does incomparably better against the whole rest of the roster.

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And to be fair I'm not even really all that into nerfing Deino, I'd honestly just rather buff the whole rest of the roster.

dusky surge
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i think deino needs to be better in the water and much worse on the land

hollow canyon
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It's already amazing in the water

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Idk how much better it can possibly get, no other animal comes even close to it.

alpine plover
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Just nerf it’s alt bite done

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If deino wants to go on land and fight make it hard for it to fight. Cause it’s not supposed to

hollow canyon
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That is easy to say but the better question is how to nerf it exactly? If you just slap the stamina cost on it it would hardly have any impact on the Stego match up while working towards making Deino less potent against smaller animals on land. If you nerf its attack rate then that mainly affects the Stego match up while not doing all that much against the smalls. Doing both could just ruin the animal altogether.

alpine plover
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It’s a lunge and drown not a jag Rex

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Well you could reduce how far it turns when alt biting

hollow canyon
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I don't think that should be a thing, letting smaller animals ride it doesn't seem like the fair solution and due to the borderline non-existent collisions they could very much do that.

alpine plover
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I mean it gets then to go back in the water

hollow canyon
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I've already seen a video of a Dryo riding a Deino even with alt bite being used. It eventually did get hit but it was still rather ridiculous. Admittedly Dryo is another animal that's overtuned in my opinion although it doesn't matter all that much in its case because barely anyone plays it anyways.

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I don't think making Deino "ride'able" to the terrestrial animals is the solution to the problem we have at our hands.

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Deino just has a lot of weird, seemingly random things going for itself which other animals do not for some reason.

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Like the healing rate, the low hunger depletion, access to free food that really only Deino can access.

slim dragon
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Deino's alt-bite needs a stamina cost for the sake of consistency and logic, not for actual nerfing of the animal
It does nerf deino when it wants to go on long trips inland tho

hollow canyon
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Throw some of this stuff at other animals and they might just become more competitive.

alpine plover
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Perhaps a little nerf in its health cause even juvies seem really bulky

slim dragon
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Also Alt-bite could be reworked to be slower but deal more damage than regular bite

hollow canyon
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I think Deino being bulky is fine. My main issue with it is just how easy it is to acquire compared to other animals despite all the power it has.

slim dragon
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So regular bite deals higher dps, but alt-bite is more effective for punishing enemies

hollow canyon
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I mean yea that's a fine suggestion although I would increase the attack rate of the normal bite since it doesn't turn you around and yet it's still really slow for some reason.

slim dragon
hollow canyon
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Spino is supposedly going to be a threat to Deino of any size and I can't wait for it to be in the game.

pearl elbow
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Sucho as well will be a threat

alpine plover
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Think deino just needs things for it to worry about on land besides stego

hollow canyon
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Sucho is a stick and it's tiny compared to Deino

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Idk how large the devs intend to make it in game but real life Suchomimus weighs ~3.5t which would put it in the "oneshot" category for Deino.

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And I don't think that this would really be ok.

slim dragon
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I don't know either, it seems to be quite bulky according to the trello render

alpine plover
#

Sucho and deino are kinda on par with each other both being sorta pseudo apex’s

hollow canyon
#

They aren't on par though, if we're talking about real Suchomimus. It's not even half the size of our Deinosuchus. I generally agree with Nova that it should probably be upsized so that it doesn't end up being Deino fodder.

slim dragon
#

Deino just picking up and drowning sucho would look super weird

hollow canyon
#

Losing a 3h+ animal to a single click from a Deinosuchus is a bit of a no-no to me considering that we're talking about an animal that will presumably occupy the same environment.

pearl elbow
slim dragon
#

But it probably won't be able to
As a semiaquatic (or at least river dweller) sucho will most likiely have a very long breath duration

hollow canyon
#

That's... really outdated and just unprecise, Sheev.

#

D.rugosus is probably the Deinosuchus they are referring to there

alpine plover
#

True

hollow canyon
#

It's roughly around 4t in weight

pearl elbow
#

They could make sucho a threat

hollow canyon
#

D.hatcheri which is the species we ended up getting is much larger than that. It being 8t in the game is actually on the lower side of its estimates.

pearl elbow
#

I see no specimen called that

hollow canyon
#

This is probably the most up to date skeletal of the animal, at least to my knowledge. This animal has been GDIed to be at around 3.4-3.5t.

suchomimus_tenerensis_skeletal_reconstruction__by_franoys_dcce2an-fullview.png
pearl elbow
#

Plus it is a game so they can change things up a bit

hollow canyon
#

It's not a specimen

#

It's a species

#

Give me a second, I will show you how I know it's D.hatcheri in the game

#

Here you have it - the devs trailer states the name of the animal

pearl elbow
#

Still comes up with the same stuff as the post i gave before

hollow canyon
#

Now this is how large it might've gotten

deinosuchus_comparison_by_fadeno_de1tp84-fullview.png
#

In the game specifically it's sitting at 8t

#

which is sensible

#

at its previous size, before the devs decided to make it bigger it would've been in the 5-6t size range

#

If you have some more doubts about the size of Deinosuchus you're probably better off asking people in the paleotalk. The folk there are far more knowledgeable than me and can provide you with a far more detailed explanation as to how we know this animal was actually so much larger. They would also tell you far more about Suchomimus and how large it was and whether it could get larger than that.

#

The point is that no estimate of Suchomimus even approaches the size of our current Deinosuchus.

pearl elbow
#

Well anyway the potential is there for sucho, to be the sub apex, and though not being a direct danger can still pose a threat

alpine plover
#

I mean I can defiantly see 2+ suchos killing a deino

pearl elbow
#

We will have to wait and see

alpine plover
#

Deino was just a mistake to add this early in the first place

#

I get like marketing and sales and all but besides that it shouldn’t of been added this early

pearl elbow
#

It is alright for the fact that is a different kind of threat to the other carnivores

alpine plover
#

Same goes for stego. Like why would you add a tanky herbivore with spikes this early with a bunch of smaller game creatures

hollow canyon
#

I don't think adding Deino was a mistake per se - I instead think that focusing on the smaller part of the roster is ill-advised.

pearl elbow
#

A deino on land isn't too much danger when not too close to the water, as you can just run away, a direct confrontation is not wise unless you are a stego

hollow canyon
#

Yea it's not too much danger unless it's a bush-gator.

alpine plover
hollow canyon
#

Bush gators are always dangerous and you have to watch out for those, they are like landmines

alpine plover
#

You shouldn’t add something with no good counters this early

pearl elbow
#

I am not too fussed by deinos, even when there are lots you can just run out to the fields

#

If you don't fight them they will kill each other

hollow canyon
#

Salty, I think the devs are more so focused on making the base game currently and adding a playable that's focused on staying in the water and swimming was the best approach to that. They probably aren't too fussed about the balance right now because the current game isn't anywhere close to what it's meant to be.

#

I do not blame them either

#

they can always tinker with the stats of animals

pearl elbow
#

It is the first implementation and with no wallowing for the deino of course it will have some great stats to counter act that factor

dusky surge
#

i think deino was fine, due to how limited its hunting space is compared to others. T-Rex would fucking destroy at this stage, or starve to death. Adding fish alongside deino was a decent idea to make sure the thing doesn't eat shit and die

alpine plover
pearl elbow
#

You have to know dryo Ai spawn points

dusky surge
#

It also helps those "apex lovers" that simply must have a big, strong killing machine in the Isle

#

also the fact that AI is still farmable is so fucking stupid and I hate it. Dino AI sucks and I will never stop believing this

pearl elbow
#

Plus there would be a lot of juvi deinos to hunt, though dangerous but, fun in a way

alpine plover
#

Obviously people will wanna kill them so they choose carno which shouldn’t be fighting a deino even in abig pack

pearl elbow
#

unless the deino comes out to far from the river

alpine plover
#

You wanna kill deino with terrestrial creature choose allo

#

But that’s not in yet so they choose carno

novel tulip
#

We discussed this already

#

Megapacks go after deinos for fun, not individuals or small packs

#

Doesn't matter if its carnos or utahs or stegos

#

Stop trying to balance around megapacks

alpine plover
#

You don’t see big ptera groups going after them do you?

hollow canyon
alpine plover
#

They choose specifically carno because it’s the strongest carnivore currently to fight deino besides other deino

hollow canyon
#

It is somewhat significantly larger than Carno but it's still less than half the size of our Deinosuchus.

#

Unless we get Saurophaganax then yeah, bring it on Deinos. I shall see you in hell

alpine plover
#

Rarely will you see a Utah pack fight a deino. They can’t kill it cause of the bleed resistance

#

Just nerf deino on land somehow

hollow canyon
#

I fought like 3 Utah packs just yesterday as a deino and I have to say - those fights didn't go well for them.

#

Admittedly I don't think a Utah pack should be going after a Deino in general.

alpine plover
hollow canyon
#

Yeah and goes very badly for the Carno/Utahs as long as the Deino they're after isn't kind of incompetent.

alpine plover
#

I mean maybe a cerato at the very least cause it’s a brawler but carno no that’s not supposed to hunt deinos

#

It’s really just a bunch of sweaty toxic legacy players trying to turn evrima into legacy where they are the big bad Rex Who kills all

dusky surge
#

im really excited to see cerato, since basically all the main carnivores atm are very offensive in playstyle, gonna be interesting to see a slower, more territorial brawler

somber badge
#

We need fucking Cama to just help us to mass extinction and then game over

fallen chasm
#

I hope the Cera gets some love and has the temperament of a Honey Badger. Smaller in size but an absolute brawler with a voracious mindset. Whereas the Carno is like the Cheetah of the game, the Cera is more like the Hyena/Honey Badger. Cera undoubtedly should be stronger than a Carno 1 v 1

hollow canyon
#

@cedar shore Just going to point out that the reason why Utah's alt bite specifically drains stamina is that it does increased damage compared to the normal bite.

thorn spire
#

Carnos can hunt deinos, but deinos always run back to the water like little b*tches.

hollow canyon
#

Yes, Deino is way too safe all around

sinful cove
#

"carnos can hunt deinos, but only if the deino lets them do it" basically

hollow canyon
#

Eyup, pretty much

spare badger
#

Why we need sucho I think

grave veldt
#

Any semi aquatic would’ve helped as ppl could spread out more since the waterways wouldn’t only be 8 ton crocs

cedar shore
hollow canyon
#

@cedar shoreNo, it actually doesn't. I think the only two animals that deal increased damage with their alt attacks are Pteranodon and Utah(well and Tenonto but it is a bit of a special case I'd say).

#

Carnotaurus and Deinosuchus deal the same damage with their alt bites as with their normal bites that I can assure you off. Now - this doesn't mean that slapping some stamina cost on Deino's alt bite wouldn't be a good idea. I'm just pointing out why it doesn't have any stamina cost from the get go.

#

Overall someone suggested that it could do higher damage with the alt bite at the cost of having a stamina cost and a lower attack rate than its normal bite. I think this would be a very sensible change all around.

cedar shore
hollow canyon
#

I honestly kind of agree

#

All the alt bites should probably cost stamina and have a lower attack rate while dealing more damage.

thorn spire
#

"Only if deino let's you hunt it"

Land deinos dont have a choice since thier arrogance brings thier downfall. Boosted ass crocs I tell u.

hollow canyon
#

They have to remain on land for you to hunt them still - meaning that they're allowing you to hunt them rather than you having the ability to actually go after them. There's 0 reason for a Deino to have to be on land. They can regenerate their stamina and health in the water, they can eat in the water and they don't dehydrate as long as they are in the water. If they decide to be on land to fight some animal then that's down to their whim which allows you to hunt them.

vestal berry
#

pretty much the only reason deynos go outside the water is because players just want to rest and are used to it being done on land

sinful cove
#

they do it to tempt packs or confident loners to attack them too. ive seen deinos sit out pretending to bask and have a buddy waiting nearby to surprise people who take the bait

hollow canyon
#

^

#

I pretend to be afk at times while basking and wait for people to try to attack me/get close enough.

thorn spire
#

"So apparently the carno tail biting a stego still works ? Saw my friend die to it, if it’s the case wth"

That carno is very skilled. Isnt a headshot insta death? Take in the fact that a tail bite is reduced damage. Oof.

#

Nah, I mean they go so far inland that they run out of stam far before they hit the water, I wasnt talking about the ones who stay on the banks or a sprint away from the water. And while there is 0 reason for a deino to be on land....you'll find a duo or so roaming the damn plains. Also you'll see them at the shallows.

primal token
#

Honestly idc about nerfing the carno statwise, but fixing its attack range, attack speed and turning radius would be nice. This would also make it youse its charge way more…

regal relic
#

another thing with carnos is that I think they attack hitbox on their main attack is broken

#

they seem be heatshot bite me and other ppl when they are barely even biting the tail

vagrant mural
#

nerf its biteforce and accel out of drift, and buff charge

primal token
frosty heron
#

And I'm curious what's wrong with Carno turning speed, I mean, turns like a truck in comparison to its smaller rivals

primal token
#

Not rly

#

Try running around a turning carno

#

Its not when they run, but when they turn on the spot

frosty heron
#

It does, drift turning is a different thing as you have to play against that and it's pretty easy, if you know the Carno has to do a sharp turn it will drift and lose momentum

#

Anyways I agree it needs a hitbox fix

#

Maybe it's not hitbox but lag issues

frosty heron
#

When you play both and I compare them Carno indeed feels pretty heavy

primal token
#

I dont belive that is it a desync isseue at this point of development, and what I talked about was carnos turning radius on the spot not when “drifting”

frosty heron
primal token
#

Wdym

#

You cant

frosty heron
#

Otherwise it could lead to the hated "assriding" from Legacy, we don't want that

frosty heron
#

And pretty much any other Utah player can confirm

primal token
#

Without getting hit?

frosty heron
primal token
#

Its almost impossible if the carno is spam biting

#

I find that hard to believe and will test it myself

frosty heron
#

And turning speed didn't changed since then

primal token
#

A “sub carno” is not a adult big difference

frosty heron
#

They turn at the same speed, actually being smaller should help him getting hits easily as smaller you are, smaller the "Turning circle" is

primal token
#

The slower your walking speed is the slower your turning speed

frosty heron
#

I will try to record some of this stuff in a free grow server and prove it. As images are better than words

primal token
#

Even if you are right about the turning speed you still get hit bc of the hitbox

#

yeah nice

vernal sentinel
#

yea hitbox is massive, that and its biteforce+attack speed make it very broken

primal token
#

And thats a fact

#

1 of my clips

#

Hope the devs will do something soon

frosty heron
#

Well, that's typical desync Isle stuff. Happens

#

Except for the last hit, that was a drift turn

dusky surge
#

the bite hitbox is really strange

#

it's hyper disjointed for both the carno and the victim

primal token
#

They said they fixed the main desync problem a while ago

frosty heron
#

It is, but not only Carno has this issue, Deino also does

primal token
#

I think it has something to do with the hitbox

#

Deino not rly

#

This is mainly a carno problem

frosty heron
primal token
#

Yeah

#

Ikr

#

Thats weird

vernal sentinel
#

feels like it streches out ahead

dusky surge
primal token
#

Like I said I think its something with the hitbox

dusky surge
#

the hitbox is massively disjointed

frosty heron
#

Hitbox expands horizontally it seems

primal token
#

prob

frosty heron
#

Damn, I need a hitboxes debug mode in this game

primal token
#

I have some balance feedbacks with around 100 like each so its not a uncommon problem

hollow canyon
#

The fact that a single Utah lives for so long in a fight against two Carnos is the bigger joke if anything.

pearl elbow
#

Well, the utah was using it's better, agility to avoid the carnos, so of course it will survive long, but it won't win or fight well against two. Plus, people want to make it worse for the carno by making it do less damage but, to make sure the match up stays balanced, lower the Utah health which in my mind is ridiculous.

hollow canyon
#

It shouldn't be winning that fight ever. If it was that would be a clear sign that something is wrong with the balance.

civic moth
#

Why has this Utah tried so long to fight?

pearl elbow
#

The solo utah would never, win

#

Trust me the utah doesn't have the stam to kill one full grown carno let alone two

#

The utah's only hope is to duke and run away

hollow canyon
#

As it should be and it's not like it's difficult to get away. If that Utah elected to get out instead of trying to fight it would've lived easily.

pearl elbow
#

It would certainly have had a better chance definitely

#

The utahs can only take on carnos when they have a pack which is not always gonna work if they don't work as a team. Also utahs need the ability to escape and recover during the fight to regain stam after a pounce, so rocks, dense brush and logs are great ways for utahs to get some time to regen health

alpine plover
#

A Utah should only win a fight against a carno if it’s in a pack

primal token
#

I agree with Sheev Tom on some points, and I believe that a skilled Utah should be able to outplay a carno.
E.g. with pounching.

civic moth
#

Imagine, feeding easily on Dryosaurus as Carnotaurus.

Even if it is a 120kg animal to a 1.8 tons animal, the size difference is of 14 times. Beeing fed on such small thing doesn't that much make sense balance wise as Carnotaurus could easily go on a Tenonto, which should feed it or possibly 2.

There is already that kind of problems with Deinosuchus, able to feed on small animals such as Utahs. Do not make it that easy for Carno as well.

teal pecan
#

ye but carno is a small game hunter, if it's supposed to hunt dryo and such it should get more food than it gets now, maybe not 50 or 60% but smth close to 50%

primal token
#

E.g. The Blue Whale is 30 meters long and weighing some 170 tons, it eats up to 3,6 tons of krill a day, and is the animal that eats the most relative to its body weight.

#

So i dont see a problem in Pesky’s suggestion

teal pecan
lament cloak
civic moth
#

Realism is not to take for balancing. That thing could apply to Tyrannosaurus killing a Parasaurolophus, which shouldn't fil it even if they go for the 8 tons measurement.

I can see Dryo being 35% food and nothing more. Then Utah being 70% to 90% and Tenonto 150% for now. Deinosuchus and Stegosaurus being 300%.
If it becomes too easy to feed Carnotaurus, then you'll have army of them as anyone can take the animal and will survive just fine by hunting extra small things, which is dumb tbh.

So, with those food value, feeding Carnotaurus stays decent if you got your prey but packs quickly become more difficult to handle.

#

Update 2 Carnotaurus really was the best

#

😔

hollow canyon
#

I do get the idea of the video - this however has been explained to you already. You getting hit by something that from your perspective missed your tail is a matter of desync and lag. I've been hit this way by every animal including Stego, Deino, Tenonto and Utah itself so I'm not sure what you're on about.@primal token

#

As for the point about "a skilled Utah taking on a Carno" then this is probably the issue. No, you shouldn't be taking on a Carno as a "skilled Utah" by the virtue of gutting Carno's turn rate and then claiming your victory as a sign of skill.

primal token
hollow canyon
#

Where do you get the idea that there should be no desync at all at this point in the development? It's a work in progress that will take a long, long time to fully sort out? And yes - this happens with every animal because it does happen with every animal. Only yesterday I got hit on my tail by a Utah that was nowhere close to it.

#

I've seen the points raised about Carno's bite and its bitesocket but it's not exceptional to all the other bite sockets in the game.

primal token
#

You are referring to another problem

hollow canyon
#

I'm talking about the issue depicted in the video. I've had it happen with every animal, excluding Dryo and Hypsi so far.

primal token
#

The issue in the video only has something to do with the carno and its hitbox…

#

I believe that its hitbox expands horizontally, as you would know if you wanted to read my comments before replying

teal pecan
hollow canyon
#

The issue is that it doesn't. Someone biting air and landing a hit happens with every animal in the game. Especially the tail getting bitten. Then you're also making a claim that Carno's turn rate should be lowered which is just funny considering that it already turn around slowly. That video if anything portrays that hitboxes are messed up and that Carno isn't very good at hunting its primary food source due to its lack of agility.

primal token
#

No it does not!

hollow canyon
#

Carno isn't a small game hunter in the current game. It's actually bad at hunting either Dryos or Utahs that actually care about staying alive. It's only the ones that are stupid enough to try to fight it that go down to it or the ones that just eat the charge at the start of the fight.

primal token
#

Not even remotly close to carnos hitbox

#

That still dosen’t change that carnos hitbox is broken

hollow canyon
#

QA might want to check this on a sandbox server by putting all the animals next to one another and testing the actual attack sockets of all of them I guess is the best approach.

primal token
#

I dont believe that you have played this game enough

#

Its impossible to test like that…

hollow canyon
#

It is very much possible to test like that.

primal token
#

Nope

hollow canyon
#

And I always find it funny when someone tells me that I haven't played Evrima enough.

primal token
#

But go try it, not holding you back

#

Then you clearly are not playing the combat aspects of the game enough

hollow canyon
#

We don't have access to sandbox as it is, so I can't try it unless I get back my access to a server where I have admin but I might talk to some QA folks what they think about this issue.

primal token
#

Happy to hear that! Spread some light

#

But if you havent even played on a sandbox serv in evrima I get it

golden coral
#

How are you supposed to test it then?

#

Because we need a way to test so we can be sure if it's desync or hitbox issues, no?

hollow canyon
#

Hitboxes in the game are messed up in general. During the beta of update 3 Deinosuchus was missing lunges that it absolutely should've hit. All the other animals have other issues with hitboxes like the videos of Utahs getting shish-kebabed by Stegos from afar.

primal token
#

The devs will need to look into that👀

#

But not near as vital as carnos!

hollow canyon
golden coral
#

Well there are no sandbox servers on evrima, so how to test then?

#

More importantly, how to find a server that you can guarantee does not have desync or other performance issues, instead of it being a pure hitbox issue?

primal token
#

Lol there are several free growth servers m8

golden coral
#

That's the thing here, you need a server where you can rule out any performance issues if you're to be sure it's hitboxes?

primal token
#

Good fps should be enough tbh

#

And Ping ofc

#

I have 100+ hours in sandbox servers

hollow canyon
#

That's not sandbox. I've already said that I don't have access to a server where I'd be an admin right now. I used to have it at one point where it allowed me to test certain things in depth but as it is I'm not going to do that on a free growth server as that's too much of a waste of time.

golden coral
#

So then we'd need everyone testing to have very similar, and good performance at that, on the same server. Alright, that could probably be done, with some careful planning

#

Your hours does not matter Jonas? They do not mean anything when it comes to performance, that's the thing

hollow canyon
#

And this isn't something that the devs per se have to look into, it's something that the QA will have to investigate.

golden coral
#

Can you guarantee me that all those hours were in a server, with people, that all had similar performance, so you can rule out any other issues?

primal token
golden coral
#

That's my point here. You claim this is a hitbox issue, and it might very well be, carno is odd, that much I do know. But you still need to test it properly to be sure where the issue lies.

#

And did anyone of those prove performance tests? :p

primal token
#

Holt milt

#

Thats why I want the devs to check it

golden coral
#

I've seen the video btw, I've seen the feedback, and I'm not saying there's nothing off, because there's some weird shit going on :p

primal token
#

I make most certain like (Many other) that this is a hitbox issue

golden coral
#

But I've played long enough to know that we got all sorts of performance issues on the servers too ^^

primal token
#

Have you read both of my feedbacks ?

golden coral
#

Might have missed the text, but I know I've seen the video at least

#

I'll go look, unless you have a quick link?

primal token
#

I get what you mean, but this does not happen with juvie carnos or any other dino rly

hollow canyon
#

Do note - I wasn't responding to your feedback but to the stuff that you were saying in feedback discussion about Carno turning.

primal token
#

Sry I dont

primal token
#

And carno turning is a whole nother story

hollow canyon
#

I still think that the issue with disjointed bite sockets is present on all the animals although it might be worse on some than on others. I've definitely been bitten by Carnos that were nowhere close to me but I've also had been bitten by a Deino that seemed nowhere close to me as well. And the same goes for Utahs, Stegos and Tenontos so I'm assuming that this is a widespread issue.

#

Although it is true that it is more noticeable specifically in the Utah vs Carno match up.

golden coral
# primal token Sry I dont

I don't know if it is a hitbox issue, it could be, but the vid I'm referring to looks like those where a stego suddenly hits you after you passed it, which seems more like lag to me. But it's possible that carno has some weird hitbox going on. I've also heard it's carnos speed that causes some issues, lag/desync, that might be part of it too if the carno is running. (I've read your whole feedback now!)

primal token
#

I know the video was not the best aight, you will have to experience it for yourself

golden coral
#

Could just be the carno speed making the issue worse there?

primal token
#

There was no stego in my vid tho

golden coral
#

Cause that probably influences performance, and if they all got hitbox issues, it would make sense if the carno gets the worst from it with its high speed in some way

hollow canyon
#

In general most of the issues with hitboxes and bitesockets are noticeable when Utah is participating in the fight as it's relatively small and fast so you can see it not getting hit and yet receiving damage the most often.

golden coral
#

I know, I meant other vids I've seen Jonas :p

primal token
#

Personally im fighting stegeos and deinos without any real problems

#

Sure deino hits from behind Can look a bit sketchy at times, but you get used to it, but carno is just on another lvl

primal token
hollow canyon
#

Just from the top of my head I've been bitten by one Deino at least once where from my perspective it looked like the bite landed on my tail and yet it took my Utah out completely.

primal token
#

1 shot?

hollow canyon
#

Yeah

primal token
#

Thats not possible

hollow canyon
#

I've had some tiny bit of missing hp

#

and I was ~90% grown

#

so do note I wasn't fully grown at that momnt

#

and have received one tip of the tail bite before

primal token
#

Yeah if you are smaller its alot harder and might be why you experienced this

hollow canyon
#

I was in the killable range at the time for sure with a headshot

golden coral
#

If you can, it would be interesting to test with standing still vs running in a fight with carno vs utah. Just to see if that changes hitboxes.

primal token
#

I already tried with some friends

#

Cant rly get any results

#

Its just not possible to do it properly I guess

hollow canyon
#

Have you tried if Tenonto experiences the same problem in the fights?

primal token
#

Yes its perfect imo

hollow canyon
#

As in Tenonto vs Carno

#

not Tenonto vs Utah

primal token
#

Bo

#

No*

#

Not rly tbh

hollow canyon
#

That might be something worth testing, I've not seen this issue pop up there even though I do experience it very often in the Utah vs Carno on both sides.

primal token
#

But when playing as teno I never experience anything like the “carno, utah) issue

hollow canyon
#

Me neither

primal token
#

Might try it

#

I just hope the devs will take 10 min of their time looking into the hitboxes

hollow canyon
#

Try to go for some Carnos and see how it goes. I've gotten into fights with them very often but never noticed them biting me from afar really unlike when I play Utah.

primal token
#

Yeah exactly!

golden coral
#

So it's an issue more on utah than carno?

primal token
#

Its so weird

golden coral
#

Cause now it sounds like you both have had no issues with carno vs other stuff, it's just utah vs carno where it really gets weird?

primal token
#

Yes only on utah

#

Maybe a bit on carno

golden coral
#

Huh... yeah that just made it weirder then :p Maybe it's something off with utah instead, it's hitbox instead of carno "bitebox"?

primal token
#

Sometimes you dont hit if the utah is directly under your head…

#

No I dont Think so. Utah is doing great against both stego and teno

hollow canyon
#

I have never had any issues with Tenonto, I did see some pretty egregious hits from Stego(although those were more so down to lag).

#

Although to be fair I'm not entirely sure if it was just lag

primal token
#

Yeah the hole utah pounching stego situation

hollow canyon
#

I do remember seeing a small Utah get skewered from miles away without even entering the range at one point.

#

Nah, I'm not talking about that but more so about Stego hitting things from outside of its range.

#

That was back during the days of update 2 though

#

Don't think I've seen any of this in update 3 aside from the typical lag stuff where Utah ran away but got shish-kebabed anyways.

primal token
#

Me neither

#

found them

#

take a look if you want!

hollow canyon
#

Looking at your first feedback I agree that Utahs in a pack should have a decent chance of bringing a Carno down but the issue currently is that you can do that pretty much only by utilising the pounce which has an obvious issue that allows your opponent to land a hit on you when you disengage it which I think is the main problem Utah has currently(it's really had it always but prior to the first patch to update 3 tail-tanking allowed a Utah to ignore it to a certain extent).

#

Again though - if it's just about survival then Utah doesn't really have any issues. I've only ever died to Carnos whenever I tried to kill them, if I ever decided to run away from them I got away from them rather easily.

primal token
#

yeah utah is an escape artist

hollow canyon
#

Overall they will really have to do something with the Utah's pounce I think the most sensible suggestion was being able to use up some stamina to jump away from the target so that you land outside of their range.

civic moth
sinful cove
#

Wait does utah really pin animals twice its weight? Wtf

alpine plover
#

Yeah it does

sinful cove
#

Thats busted lmao

alpine plover
#

I was a big sub carno and was pinned by a utah husk

sinful cove
#

Utah has the hp ratio of a tank and pins things twice its size that’s messed up lmao

alpine plover
#

Yeah but at least utah is useless when it pounces a stego TI_Troll TI_Troll

sinful cove
#

Yeah at least utah has to resort to biting stego on the head and beating it 1v1 TI_Troll

alpine plover
#

Yeah don’t pounce stegos, never works out pain

#

Utah shish kabob

hollow canyon
#

Yea it does pin larger animals I think it might be caused by the fact that Utah used to weigh 1000kg and it pinned animals up to its own size and well... now its weight has been nerfed down to 500kg but the ability to pin other animals likely hasn't been changed.

#

To be fair while I agreed with the suggestion now I think it is kind of absurd that Utah can pin down an animal twice its size. It's just... rather silly honestly.

sinful cove
#

Yeah its totally busted

novel tulip
#

I remember I was a juvi carno and a juvi utah like half my size pinned me and killed me

#

It looked so strange

sinful cove
#

hopefully it was just an oversight and not the intentional function of that mechanic

novel tulip
#

Sounds like one tbh

hollow canyon
#

It almost certainly was I think.

novel tulip
lament cloak
#

lmao, utah is already too tanky imo, it doesn't need more health

crystal wharf
#

im sorry
but if you are a carno
and a fucking stego manages to track you down
you need to just not play carno anymore

vagrant mural
#

^

#

I have never heard of carnos getting run down by stegos

#

Tenos yes

#

Even if you somehow managed to get tracked down

#

Assuming you’re putting good distance and constantly moving, the stego is probably not gonna even have that many or any jabs

alpine plover
#

My friend was tracked down by a stego….somehow…

#

not sure if that’s even possible but.

#

I guess it happened

crystal wharf
#

if he was injured to the point where he couldnt run any distance than ig it could be a thing
but, its still a stego, just run a short ways, wallow, and disappear

lament cloak
#

wait, how does a carno get run down by a stego?

slim dragon
#

I don't get how a carno can be chased by a stego and die tho... I mean, the stego must stop in order to deliver a very slow attack... Or it was bitten to death ?

lament cloak
#

sure, if the carno was already on low stamina but thats on the carno

dim radish
#

A stego has to stop for good six seconds to sniff. A carno can wallow and crouch

#

how

#

how does that happen

#

Bohooo, carno gets tracked down despite being faster, so we must nerf tenos and stegos. Might as well nerf Utahs too, because they can track down dryos despite dryo being faster

alpine plover
#

I’m pretty sure he was on low stamina to begin with, he charged a teno and killed it then he ran into the forest and said he was just slapped by a stego. So.

dim radish
#

Not the games fault

hollow canyon
#

I haven't heard about Stego tracking down a Carno nor have I ever seen that happen. Tenonto most definitely can pull it off though, to the point where you don't really want to hang out far from the jungles as a solo Carno because you might need it to lose a potential Tenonto(or more likely a couple of them, a single one shouldn't really be a problem I think) and without a forest nearby it might be problematic.

hallow spire
#

Even tho utah is actually big it’s still kinda small compared to other things in the game and just like piggy said it can tank some hits with its tail so it’s health is fine

sinful cove
#

stego is already slow and boring as fuck, it shouldn't be nerfed just because some carno is too lazy to wallow against something lightyears slower than it, stego cant escape from anything and has one attack thats easy to juke to small tiers while deino can run it down and bite its head through its ass while dodging headshots, it doesnt need to be more unenjoyable

versed rune
#

the only real argument for nerfing stego stam would be that it’s fat and it’s not realistic

#

But let’s be honest here any less stam for steg and playing that thing would be worse than torture

alpine plover
#

Playing it is already torturous, couldn’t imagine a stamina nerf

hollow canyon
#

I'd have to get paid to play it again tbh

sinful cove
#

the slow fuck dinos should have goo dstam to make up for how miserable it is to travel with them

#

imagine slow low stam stego when diets come and it has to travel across the map somewhat regularly, yikes

#

i want some stam to use for travel to not walk like a sloth 100% of the way, i cant even stand stego right now lol

alpine plover
#

Plus it dies to deino pretty easily now. 4 alt bites to the head and your 5 hour grow is gone.

#

Deino is absolutely horrifying right now

sinful cove
#

Deino is basically rex with a safe space rn

thorn spire
#

I have heard that Tenonto and Stego's superior stam pool in comparison to Carno allows them to run down Carno despite its superior speed.

Sure, Carno can just find a river and wallow in it, but... a STEGO should not have enough stamina to track down a wounded Carno. A tenonto, maybe, but still.

I'm sorry, but if you're fucking getting run down by stego and complaining as Carno you just need to play a different game, holy hell.

As for tenonto, yes it needs that stam and you outrun it, wallowing is a thing for a reason.

Carno isnt meant for marathons. Break line of sight, wallow and keep moving. Not that hard.

#

Stego actually wins in a straight up headshot contest.

Regardless, a stego could kite a deino on land and thr deino will be the one getting headshot.

It depends on if the stego let's the deino inside it or not.

grave veldt
#

just gonna point out stego already got a stam nerf in update 3 so yea

#

so its even worse if ur getting run down by one now

lament cloak
#

@cedar cove utah is supposed to be high risk high reward, sure the pounce needs some work because even if you do land a pounce, they can get a free hit (which is often lethal) but carno is supposed to be faster than utah, just juke it, its ridiculously easy, they turn like trucks

sinful cove
#

Utha moment

cedar shore
#

@cedar cove They can actually outrun carnos

alpine plover
#

@quasi grove what about nerfing Carno’s group limit back to 3?

#

Or its bite down to 300?

quasi grove
#

i didn't really cover group limits as that generally seems to be fluid based on the amount of creatures in the ecosystem less than actual balance
but idk

#

since main 3 of utah, teno and carno will likely recive the most players
it makes sense for their initial group sizes to be high
pachy may help that balance but not by much

#

what are the current pack sizes?

alpine plover
#

Stego 5
Carno 5
Teno 8
Utah 8

#

Carno is the biggest land predator and will be for probably another year

#

Either increase its growth time or decrease the group limit

#

Or both, which is what I would’ve wanted

ruby shuttle
#

@quasi grove I'd like to know how Dryo could kick backwards. Also Utah definitely need a safe leap off - as it stands - even if you let go and still have stam you can be mauled to death very quickly.

quasi grove
#

plant its front arms onto the ground, donkey kick

#

probably something it could use from a run, but not a standstill since it doesn't have similar force to push the other way

#

assuming dryos puny arms could even do that

broken orbit
#

i mean dryo did the same thing while burrowing in legacy

quasi grove
#

i just know people like dryo actually doing things to creatures its size and smaller instead of only running, currently i'm in the camp of "it should be running away and playing like a rabbit", but i put that back kick thing there in parenthesis anyways

#

well it used its arms to dig
so they might not be useless sausage links

broken orbit
#

ye i think a backwards kick would be nice on dryo tbh

#

so its not running from things around the height of its ankle all the time

quasi grove
#

i just imagined dryo doing the thing rabbits do where they grab a target they want to bash with their front limbs and then kick super fast repeatedly with their back legs to just maul the thing

broken orbit
#

or maybe it could not kick but force rocks and dust off the ground and into predators faces

#

quick blind type of thing, but different

#

it makes you blink quickly to clear your eyes

worldly venture
#

@quasi grove I agree with all apart from dryo and I think a more significant hypsi buff would be to decrease the lost stamina and not increase the jump height as that doesn't really really much

For dryo, I'd say 25N is way too little and a health change is unnecessary. Sure, you shouldn't be fighting anything, but if a sub utah wants have a go at you you should kicks it's ass TI_Troll

I'd say maybe 50N but only if they give it that kick

quasi grove
#

a 50% sub utah is at most around 250kg, thats significantly larger than a 120kg dryosaurus and should kick its butt
especially since it has claws and teeth in its jaws and dryo only has a blunt beak, useless hands, and feet it doesn't attack with currently

#

and hypsi already has good stam regen to account for the high stam cost of jump, making the jump more effective in the first place would make the cost more worth it

#

if you want a runny boi that can choose to fight back, galli is your man

sinful cove
#

As fun as it is to beat the fuck out of juvies as a dryo it really isnt needed

quasi grove
#

and its just not what dryo is supposed to be doing

sinful cove
#

If dryo hp nerf got utah an hp nerf id be happy

#

Dryo is supposed to run and be annoying, not be aggro

quasi grove
#

not be herbi perma sub-utah

worldly venture
hallow spire
worldly venture
#

Yes

#

It's not much, at all

#

You forget that dinos get most their stats in the last 25%

hallow spire
#

Oh I never heard anything about that

worldly venture
#

Sub utah is really light, it only gets to 200kg at like 70 something

#

Maybe more

quasi grove
#

i dont play much evrima utah to know the weight
but still getting attacked by something only 24% smaller than you thats equipped with teeth and large claws as something with zero physical weaponry is a bad fight to take

#

you know what can be around 25% smaller than a person that can still fuck you up? a female mountain lion

worldly venture
#

Undeveloped teeth and claws and you have hammer beak with a relatively bulky body for its size and a pretty strong neck and quick attack rate

worldly venture
quasi grove
#

dryo does not have a "hammer beak", it has a weak flimly neck with a blunt beak that it could hardly apply force to

#

i'm trying to say with that example that creatures smaller than you can still fuck you up because they have better weapons

oak wind
#

Dryo doesn't have to fight.

#

That's all

quasi grove
#

underplaying a sub-adult utahs weapons much

#

and dryo literally has no real reason to fight

oak wind
#

If ever, it could fight Troodon sized juvi Utah at most

worldly venture
#

Yeah but it still should be able to TI_HypsiShrug

quasi grove
#

so dryo has no reason to game balance wise or believability wise

oak wind
#

Should be able to fight adults?

quasi grove
#

if you want a runner that can fuck up small shit, wait for Galli

oak wind
#

No

quasi grove
#

dryo should not be doing that

oak wind
#

It just runs

worldly venture
oak wind
#

Flee anything you see except that baby Utah

#

It shouldn't happen

quasi grove
#

a key sign that Dryo is a well balanced playable

oak wind
#

I'd nerf it's damages to 20 at most

#

It's a peak

quasi grove
#

killing a predator more than 4 times its size equipped with teeth and claws with a blunt weak beak

oak wind
#

And give it a jump with down ward kick at most

worldly venture
#

Thing is, nothing about it us ruining any game balance, and if you pick shit with a dryo and are small then fuck you grow again nerd, simple as

quasi grove
#

dryo does ruin game balance tho

cedar shore
#

Nerfing utah health from 1000 to 750 is just a bad idea..

quasi grove
#

because you can grow something in 30 mins that can kill a utah that took 75 mins to grow

oak wind
#

If you're a dwarf of the dwarves yes

#

But an adult Utah shouldn't die

#

Even afk

cedar shore
#

it allready gets wrecked by carno bites

oak wind
#

Utah is too well equipped tbh

#

Too tanky is a thing

worldly venture
quasi grove
#

utah can already tank carno bites with locational

cedar shore
#

utah is balanced it just needs a kickback from pounce

oak wind
#

Utah needs some nerfs tbh

#

Stamina recovery and health

cedar shore
sinful cove
#

Utah is supposed to be in carno's prey range, if carno got a bite nerf and charge improvement in the future with utah's hp merf it wouldnt make the matchup any less fair

cedar shore
#

utah is balanced imo, exept against carnos..

oak wind
#

Or almost buff everything too. Stego is greatly underpowered and Deino isn't that tanky tbf.

quasi grove
#

base of tail sure
but with negligible lag a utah can usually use its packmates to bait and switch and not get hit bad either way

oak wind
#

Carnos are Utahs counter tho

quasi grove
#

Carnos are intended to shit on Utah, plain and simple

#

but Utah can still kill them with numbers

cedar shore
#

carno needs a bite nerf and charge buff so it can actually utilize its special instead of just spam bite

quasi grove
#

because Utah gets much stronger the more packmates it has

#

and you can just run and hide from fights you dont want to have, since Carno can barely navigate through rough terrain

oak wind
#

Then no cooldown on the charge.

worldly venture
# oak wind Utah needs some nerfs tbh

Does it though? Dying 1 shot to stego and deino, 2-3 shot by Carno and 3 hitting dryo which is it's main prey solo doesn't sound like it needs a change to me

quasi grove
#

charge cooldown would be fine if it was actually usable

oak wind
#

Deino 2 shots it.

cedar shore
quasi grove
#

Utah doesn't get 1 shot by Deino unless its lunged and drowned iirc, unless something changed

oak wind
#

And Stego still underpowered znd should get more HP imo

cedar shore
#

stego needs a faster tail swipe

#

100%

worldly venture
oak wind
#

Swipe and more HP

#

Alt bite doesn't do more damage iirc

worldly venture
#

Double damage

oak wind
#

I've seen many Utahs surviving it

quasi grove
#

it just attacks faster than normal bite, so more dps

sinful cove
#

Id say maybe 60% of deinos actually use alt bite lol

cedar shore
worldly venture
cedar shore
#

alt bite has a shorter bite cooldown

worldly venture
#

It does 1.5-2x damage, there's a reason it 1 hits utahs in body which have 1k? Health

cedar shore
worldly venture
#

Lol no

quasi grove
#

it doesn't 1 shot utah

worldly venture
#

It does

quasi grove
#

only does half utahs hp

cedar shore
#

it doesnt 1 shot test it

worldly venture
#

I have, I've been in DBears lab fucking around with combat testing several times

cedar shore
#

i have allready been bitten by enough deinos as utah lol

worldly venture
#

Also alt bite does not do 1x damage

cedar shore
worldly venture
#

You're acting like I'd just have that readily available on my phone

cedar shore
#

mabye not now but later i suppose

worldly venture
#

Or PC, I have like no way to show you cause I have no need to clip it

cedar shore
#

but i swear unless they changed it in the newer updates deino certainly doesnt 1 shot utahs with its alt bite

worldly venture
#

From what I've seen, tested and been killed by, it does around double damage and 1 shots utahs and 2 shots carnos and tenos at the top half of the torso at least

#

It also 1 shots a teno in the head which would make that make sense because I doubt its anymore than a 2x multiplier for the head bite

#

Can anyone confirm tenos health?

cedar shore
#

head doesnt have a 2x damage multiplier even

worldly venture
#

I believe its around 2k so considering deino bite force is 500N, it all adds up, and means that alt bite will kill utahs at body with the 2x multiplier

golden coral
#

You're going to have to provide proof there, becuase last I tested, the deino alt bite did the same as normal bite

cedar shore
#

yeah thats what ive been sayibg all the time..

golden coral
#

And at no point did I ever oneshot a tenonto with alt bite either, so no idea what you're on about. And I think its 1.5 head multiplier, not 2, except stego possibly that does have an increased one

cedar shore
#

if deino ever did 1k dmg stegos would be done for if a deino attacked it

golden coral
#

So I've no idea what kind of testing you've done, but you're going to have to provide some sort of proof of you oneshotting tenontos with an altbite to the head, or oneshotting a utah on the body with it

sinful cove
#

Doesnt deino alt bite work so damn fast its basically a drumroll beat sometimes, saw a few videos of it, so it could just be double biting which seems like one attack

golden coral
#

And yeah, that would make stego deino matchup almost impossible for stego to win

quasi grove
#

it already pretty much is outside of just running away

golden coral
#

You'd twoshot stego on head, or possibly threeshot :p

cedar shore
golden coral
#

But last I heard, it's 4 shots for deino to kill stego so

quasi grove
#

pretty certain alt bite already 3 shots stego on the head

#

4 with neck

cedar shore
quasi grove
#

because Stegos headshot multiplier

worldly venture
golden coral
#

Can't be more than 4 Up

worldly venture
golden coral
#

Unless stego have more health than I know of

worldly venture
#

Unless a stego runs away or plays super careful, the average deino can kick it's ass rn

cedar shore
#

good luck killing a stego 1 on 1 as deino. you cant, unless its out of stam

golden coral
#

@worldly ventureLast I tested, deino does not do any more damage with alt, so I'd like some proof there, because if what you're saying is true, and alt bite takes no stam at that..

worldly venture
#

I mean I've done it sooooo

golden coral
#

That's an interesting balance choice if so, to say the least.. :p

cedar shore
worldly venture
golden coral
cedar shore
golden coral
#

Yeah, people care about the no stam irrespective of the damage of deino alt bite

lament cloak
#

stego dies to deino in a face tank, even if the deino is behind you it can bite your head through your ass

golden coral
#

The thing with stam there is that right now deino can just fight perfectly fine on land with it's alt, at no cost, no matter the damage

worldly venture
golden coral
#

So if you're arguing it must be increased damage because otherwise people wouldn't care about the no stam, you've no idea what you're talking about

cedar shore
golden coral
#

Yeah I know, but the thing with the alt bite is that it moves the deino forward, and that makes them somewhat able to get "past" the stego easier than the other way around

cedar shore
#

does the alt bite stun the stego still like for a tiny bit?

golden coral
#

Alt bite does not stun, but maybe the land lunge does?

cedar shore
#

actually nvm it never has that was the lunge

worldly venture
#

I get it's dumb that it can fling itself around but if it was only base damage the entire community wouldn't be on its ass

cedar shore
worldly venture
#

I'll have to get the timestamp I forgot lol

golden coral
#

Utah do lose stam, and tenonto has a full on attack, so I don't think it's a good comparison, since it's more of a real attack. And no, people care about it because of the free fighting, not because of damage.

cedar shore
#

yeah do that lol

golden coral
#

I can assure you, no one else who has mentioned the lack of stam on deino alt bite has mentioned the damage as a reason, it's that it can just freely attack forever and fight too good on land that's the issue to most of us

cedar shore
worldly venture
#

About 25:35

This is a free grow server, 98% chance they're full grown. First goes down to a headshot without engaging anything else, the second dies in 2 hit. Granted the second hit seems like a headshot, but but can definitely see the increased damage cause normal bite would not have done that and you know it

#

Tbh this alt bite increase damage for deino is common knowledge by now

cedar shore
worldly venture
#

Well I'm asking general chat so if they don't know then idk what to think about this community anymore lmao

cedar shore
#

the internet here is so bad i cant even watch the video :/ guess @golden coral will have to..

golden coral
#

My net is even worse I can assure you ^^

cedar shore
#

bruh

golden coral
cedar shore
#

if it actually had increased damage im suure more people would talk about it

worldly venture
#

Fuck it I'm going into the biggest combat nerds stream because everyone here somehow doesn't know

golden coral
#

Then it would be even more imbalanced so that ought to be fun :p

brittle storm
#

i think the dmg is the same as normal lmb

worldly venture
lament cloak
#

how much health does stego have?

golden coral
#

Because you're claiming something no one else has noticed, except.. I don't know, whoever you profess to know better I guess

cedar shore
#

im 100% gonna test this 1k dmg deino when i get home

keen veldt
#

it takes the same hits to kill using alt lmb and lmb for another deino or stego, its the same lmao

#

alt aatack is just faster

brittle storm
#

well i only said that i never heard of the increased dmg before... chill

golden coral
#

@worldly ventureYou can't really blame us, testing is difficult and we have no official info, so unless you dedicate yourself to test, you won't really know, beyond what you notice when you play normally. So by all means don't be too upset with us you know :p

cedar shore
#

i have admin on a server i will test there

worldly venture
#

I know I can't but idk how nobody has noticed

cedar shore
#

exept im not home rn..

brittle storm
#

and btw before you want it to cost stamina, why dont suggest a bigger cooldown first?

golden coral
#

@cedar shoreLet me know when you've tested :)

#

Both cooldown and stamina drain would be good honestly, especially if it does have increased damage :p

cedar shore
golden coral
#

But stamina drain seems more reasonable to me

#

Also fits more in game than actual cooldowns, not a fan of carno charge cooldown honestly :p

keen veldt
#

all of the alt attacks should have a stam drain imo

cedar shore
#

carno bite needs a nerf in exchange for a charge buff

keen veldt
#

carno too, if its alt bite were useful

worldly venture
cedar shore
#

like beeing able to charge even though you arent at full speed

cedar shore
golden coral
keen veldt
#

i've tested this match up before, both attacks four shot a stego on the head

golden coral
#

If the vid could load for me, I'll see what I can make of it

worldly venture
#

If it was base damage the teno wouldn't have died in one hit headshot, and the other wouldn't have died from the body and head with 500n

keen veldt
#

teno couldve just been hurt or small

worldly venture
#

Either I deserve to be brain melted or this game is so bad that every body shot with alt bite counts as headshot damage

#

Cause there is no way I can believe it is base damage after losing half hp to body hits so many times as Carno

golden coral
#

Even if it was double, I don't think the tenonto would have died

#

Not sure how much health but unless it has 1500 or less it would have survived anyway

worldly venture
#

So I'm sorry if I'm wrong but everything in my life says otherwise

cedar shore
#

i saw the clip and the teno who got a head bite could very well have been low hp

golden coral
#

Did it have any form of visible wounds?

#

Still hasn't loaded for me, so can't see.. :p

cedar shore
#

couldnt tell because of vid quality and darkness

worldly venture
#

Also it's a little funny that the conversation was about utah and dryo nerfs at first

cedar shore
#

but still you prob couldnt see if it had less than 500 hp

#

so idk if thats all you are going by but thats not gonna cut it for me :/

golden coral
#

I'll have to agree, I'd need some proper 1v1 testing under controlled conditions to be sure on this

cedar shore
#

for sure

worldly venture
#

Okay, I apologise everyone, either the game hates me that much that every body shot is a head shot or deino somehow does 4x multiplier head damage

#

That's fucking stupid I have so much deaths and close calls that say otherwise, i feel cheated by the entire game

#

@cedar shore @golden coral

cedar shore
#

yeah damage in this game is weird

worldly venture
#

I guess, stego still takes off a shit ton of carnos health with lower tail hits a lot of the time, guess the game just bad, sorry for causing all that

hollow canyon
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Deinosuchus bite does NOT do increased damage compared to the normal bite. The damage is not why alt bite is too good, it's the increased attack rate coupled with amazing mobility. Deinosuchus alt bite deals exactly 500 damage, just like the normal bite. I have tested this on a sandbox server where I could see the damage each attack was doing. The normal bite does 50% of Utah's health on a body shot and alt bite does exactly the same amount of damage.

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This is also the case for Carnotaurus, the only ones that did increased damage with alt bites were Pteranodon and Utahraptor(not counting Tenonto here for obvious reasons).

halcyon harness
alpine fjord
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I’m just feeling evirma is extremely unbalanced right now. What can carno even do really? I mean utahs and tenos are about as much as carnos are getting. Deinos seem way to powerful and stegos don’t even care when carnos come around

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It really needs something else to balance the ranks and some dinos like deino need to be nerfed

sleek iron
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Some of the playables really needs some buffs and debuffs, but it mainly beacuse of the incomplete roster
They will balance the dinos when new ones come out

alpine fjord
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Very true. Just right now it feels unplayable sometimes. At least more ai like legacy would be nice. I find myself walking forever never finding anyone and dying of hunger

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Like you can not even touch deino!

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They can flip around and bite you at almost any angle

sleek iron
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Deino really needs to use stam when alt biting, ye

quartz island
alpine fjord
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Not enough to me

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One bit and it’s not worth it anymore

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One mistake and you are dead

quartz island
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dude its a 5 hour dino compared to a what 2 hour 30 min or whatever it is

sleek iron
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want a tip? You can grow carnis (for now) following the rivers, scavenging for fishes and other carcasses. Shallow rivers have tons of bodies beacuse of the cliffs

Thats what I usually do

quartz island
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nah you can tank a couple of bites

alpine fjord
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No I’m just saying maybe another dino should have been released to keep balance

quartz island
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carno has a 350 bite force compared to the 500 bite force of a dieno they are strong you just gotta utilize it the right way

alpine fjord
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The roster is causing this issue like Mac said

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Idk just doesn’t seem worth it right now

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Something else should have maybe been put in?

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Thanks for the tip Mac!

sleek iron
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Your welcome

quartz island
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They are working on adding other dinos but it takes time

sleek iron
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Ye things will get better as time goes on

alpine fjord
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I’m switching back to legacy until something new comes out. The balance is too off for me right now. It does take time but planning needs to play a part too I feel.

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You need to plan for balance in a game during its growth

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Can favorites is nice but a more playable game is important

sleek iron
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Understandable, have fun TI_TenontoLove

alpine fjord
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Like right now I’m showing a newbie evirma but I don’t feel it’s a great representation of how fun the isle can be

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Legacy has its issues for damn sure but you know?

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Thanks for attending my ted talk XD it’s nice to just express myself sometimes

dim radish
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Uhm, why should dryo be slower?
It can't outrun a carno as far as I know and the dodge doesn't work as it should, so speed and stamina is all it has to defend itself right now. Making it slower than a Utah would make it fodder in the current roster

frosty heron
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Fastest Dino in the game and the second smallest one makes it a hell to catch (only counting player Dryos)

slim dragon
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It might also benefit from some form of burrow, even though a lot of people seem to hate the idea

dim radish
dim radish
frosty heron
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Considering it gonna get a better dodge

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Right now Dryo has among the best survivality in the game

dim radish
frosty heron
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Well you can disagree but anyone who tested Dryo properly knows this is true, if you want you won't get killed as a Dryo

dim radish
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I know that it's hard to die as a dryo. You can grow to 80% without drinking once and to 100% without eating.
Dryo is the easiest to grow and it can easily outrun carnivores and outturn carnos. But as in legacy, the biggest threat is the utah and without burrowing and with a bad dodge, there is not much to counter them apart from pure speed

frosty heron
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That's why I said it should get a speed nerf only if it gets a better dodge

dim radish
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And that's what I agree on too

frosty heron
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Also the current Dryo can somehow outmaneuver an Utah and I think it outstam it, you just need to be unpredictable

dusky surge
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i have to say that dryo feels really OP in the current game. I can see why nerfing the speed and stam is bad, but a good dryo can duke a predator easily, especially if it makes it to a dense forest

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It's not OP in the "crush your enemies" sense either, it's a kind of OP where you don't actually die or really experience any real threats

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So it's a really boring kind of OP, made me drop the creature hard

vestal gust
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At the same time, if most carnivores weren’t brainless and actually ambush hunted instead of just running in a straight line at something as soon as they make visual contact they’d have much more success killing all things, dryos included

vagrant mural
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Dryo in all forms of mobility outclasses Utah, which is one of its main threats, idm Dryo’s current agility as its supposed to be king in that area, but similar to before, it should have to juke out and outstam Utah to live, if a utah fucks up an ambush or is seen, Dryo is still more than fast enough to put a lot of distance between it and the Utah, and with its superior stam and mobility, it should be able to outweave it and keep running long enough to make it out alive, but Utah is still fast enough, agile, enough, and has enought stam to possibly catch it in a dead on chase, and it makes Dryo actually vulnerable to a utah (apart from the stupid pounce tail hitbox), which currently, it isn’t, carnos are a joke to run from unless there’s a million of them and desync fucks you over, and Dryo being able to jump makes it excellent against Ptera, that leaves deino, which Dryo can just run to shallows for avoid, I don’t even want that bad of a speed nerf, just put it back to where it was prior update 3, which I think was 51 kmh, and if burrowing is coming for Dryo, this definitely needs to happen

vestal gust
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If it’s speed and stam get nerfed then they’d need to give it a viable ability in compensation. That speed and stamina are the only thing keeping them alive at the moment. Because let’s be honest, the “dodge” is a joke, and basically entirely useless. Give it a viable ability that can actually help the creatures survivability then sure. At the moment though, no way

quasi grove
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51kmph with making Dryos Dodge actually work would be fine
because Update 2 Dryo kinda got clapped despite still having that good damage
probably because people didn't explore the dryo matchup spread at that point