balance-feedback-discussion

[sinful cove]

rather, they should spawn ai in appropriate biomes

[dawn falcon]

So it’s not like “hey, we are spawning dryos where literally nobody goes to”

[sinful cove]

and not in random ass corners of the map

[dawn falcon]

That too

[alpine plover]

Probably AI should be fixed first before releasing diets to be honest..

[dawn falcon]

AI will probably be fixed DURING diets

[alpine plover]

Otherwise diets for carnis will not be fun

[dawn falcon]

I mean it’s not too hard to adjust the spawns for ai

[alpine plover]

Yeah, hopefully

[dawn falcon]

To different locations

So hopefully it’s fixed during update R

Update 4

[alpine plover]

Well, it's not about locations.. the rate of AI spawning is broken too

[dawn falcon]

Diets are how they set gameplay loops, which is what they really need atm

[dawn falcon]

Actually, it’s not

[alpine plover]

There's waaaaaay more fish than there is Dryo AI

[dawn falcon]

The ai are plentiful but for some jacked up reason, they wander away from populated areas

Mostly in the forests too

Which is incredibly hard to track down there

[alpine plover]

I see

Well, in my experience.. I have found Dryo AI.. but it's super rare

[dawn falcon]

Yeah

Same

[alpine plover]

Some were even in the middle of rivers lol

[dawn falcon]

I find the AI when I’m not actually looking for them lol

[vagrant mural]

Dryo ai is more common now than it was a while ago

[dawn falcon]

Oh for sure

That shit sucked

[vagrant mural]

It did

[alpine plover]

Anyways, I need to sleep so

Good night to you guys/gals

[dawn falcon]

Have a good one

[alpine plover]

That was actually quite a good analogy

[tight pecan]

I'd almost rather have a health bar along the left or right side of the screen over having the red appear on the side of the screen. That, or have it change colors from like yellow to red as you take more damage.

[sinful cove]

Upvoting your own suggestion

Also stego swing doesn't need to be slower it's already easy to juke lmao

I swear people just want fodder disguised as strong animals to hunt for their jp rp fantasy

[lament cloak]

stego, is the worst creature in the game
everyone: "nerf stego"

[sinful cove]

“Stego can sometimes defend itself against small game hunters, nerf stego”

[crystal stream]

if a boxer has no stamina do you think they will swing as fast

it's not realistic

[sinful cove]

Look at the strains, are they realistic?

Attacks already cost stam and you can run out

Thats good enough

[crystal stream]

that's the worst argument i've ever seen on this server

"kaiju dinos so no"

[sinful cove]

Stego doesnt need to be slower so carnis can have ez kills because they want to play indorex oneshot rp

Its attack is shite

It is easy to juke

[crystal stream]

it would take more skill in general, all stegos need to do right now is stand and spam tail swipe

there are no stakes

stegos are boring

[sinful cove]

They have no choice to run, they should have an easier time in the fight

The carnos and utahs can fuck off whenever they want if things don’t go their way, stego has no choice

[crystal stream]

that doesn't mean they should have an easy fight against packs of carnivores

it should take more timing and precision

[sinful cove]

Easier time than the carnivores

[lament cloak]

goodluck, do this and see if you win against two utahs. TWO competient utahs will shred a stego, even 1 good utah can kill a stego pretty easily actually, but two will shred one

[crystal stream]

until they die?

[sinful cove]

Who are the ones who control tje confrontation

[crystal stream]

lmao just stand next to a tree what

or buck.

stego should have a faster grow time tbh

[sinful cove]

Utah doesnt need pounce

To kill stego

[crystal stream]

cause it is not worth 5 hours man

[lament cloak]

good utahs don't pounce, you bite the head which has a 2x damage muliplier for some reason

[crystal stream]

stego boring af

[crystal stream]

dude face ur head into a rock?

ur giving me these scenarios that have the easiest counters

[sinful cove]

Stego isnt worth 5 hours at all right now but it shouldn’t be fodder either

[lament cloak]

so its balanced that 2 utahs can force a stego (which is supposed to be a plains dweller) to stick its head into a rock?

not to mention you are asking for a nerf to it

I thought so

[crystal stream]

good utahs should be able to kill anything...

[dense hamlet]

Stego is fine as it is, i main utah and can easily solo how many stegos i want a day. Their attack speed is fine, and carnos should have a hard time vs them

[sinful cove]

Lmao

[crystal stream]

i dont understand ur argument

[sinful cove]

In a pack maybe

[crystal stream]

nah

[lament cloak]

this is the dumbest thing I have seen in a long time

[sinful cove]

1-2 utahs shouldnt be killing everything

[crystal stream]

the isle is like 200% skill based

anything can kill anything

[dense hamlet]

Carnos don’t have the speed for their length to be able to dodge stegos after a hit

[lament cloak]

it should take a pack of 4 utahs to take on a stego at the same skill level, and yes stego does take skill but clearly you don't know that

[sinful cove]

Whats the point of 5 hour dinos if quickgrow jp raptor can shitstomp everything

[crystal stream]

that doesn't mean any raptor player can kill a stego

do u see how shit these players are

they pounce carnos while chasing them and die

[dense hamlet]

Killing a stego as a raptor is the easiest fight i find

[sinful cove]

It isnt wven hard right now, an average iq person can kill stego with utah

[crystal stream]

utah vs teno is easier

[lament cloak]

you clearly are fighting some ass tenos

[crystal stream]

all stegos have to do is buck everytime u pounce them or just stick their head into a rock

[sinful cove]

Stego is hot garbage right now, too slow to run from literally anything and has no matchups in its favour aside from singular clumsy carnos

[dense hamlet]

He is not wrong that tenos are pretty easy to figure out also, i have killed 2 that were against me at once, but stego has more openings

[crystal stream]

maybe, i killed 6 decent utahs as teno just by sitting in a river

[sinful cove]

Utah doesnt need to pounce stego once to kill it

[dense hamlet]

I never pounce a steg

[lament cloak]

so how is teno easier to beat then?

[crystal stream]

if theres no water near ur pretty much fine

it doesnt even matter if they run into a tree once u get off u have enough bleed on them

then just harass them with bite

[lament cloak]

so are you saying teno is easier in a 1v1 or harder? because atm it seems you are giving reasons to why teno is harder every though you had previously said teno was easier

[crystal stream]

teno claws should have a little more bleed imo

like maybe if it went crazy on something when it spams alt attack it could actually get it to fuck off

[dense hamlet]

I’m lost what are we even talking about anymore

First was nerf stego

[crystal stream]

teno is easier

[dense hamlet]

Then what’s easier tenos or stego

[crystal stream]

stegos can swing right after the buck animation and just stick their faces into rocks

[dense hamlet]

Then it’s easy as a stego just put head in wall

So wtf is the first argument ?

[dawn falcon]

Okay, if you nerf the tip of the tail damage for carno, that will encourage the carno to turn mid-way during an engagement, and have the stego attack it’s tip, only to have the carno spam alt bite and shred the stego.

Specifically the head

[crystal stream]

that isn't going to work

stego tail reaches its head

[dawn falcon]

So than it’s entire body gets obliterated, and the tip of the tail damage is useless?

See

[spare badger]

Those are crap tenos then

[dawn falcon]

This is where there’s problems

[crystal stream]

u read it wrong

i mean if a stego hits a carno in the tail

it shouldnt do 40% damage

[spare badger]

What part of the tail?

[dense hamlet]

Crap tenos or not, with enough patience you can kill anything

[crystal stream]

like imagine getting cut on the finger and ur almost dead

[crystal stream]

tip

[dawn falcon]

you implied the tail reaches its head

[spare badger]

Fair

[crystal stream]

im saying the stegos tail can reach its head with the long swing

[dawn falcon]

It’s own head or the carno?

[crystal stream]

dude do u not play the game?

have u ever done the longer swing

[dawn falcon]

I play the game yes

[crystal stream]

as a stego

[dawn falcon]

If that’s your agreement

[crystal stream]

the longer swing reaches its head?

what are u even getting at

[dawn falcon]

Yeah but if you’re saying “it”, I can’t figure out shit without a question being answered

If you’re getting bummed out over a question than don’t look at me lol

So the answer would be “it’s own head”

Boom

Done

[crystal stream]

lmfao what

[dawn falcon]

Now, what about the fact that it reaches its own head

Cmon I’m planning on carrying this out

[crystal stream]

u literally just said

that stego can be face tanked because its tail doesn't do damage

which I never stated

[dawn falcon]

What

[crystal stream]

this

[dawn falcon]

Okay, if you nerf the tip of the tail damage for carno, that will encourage the carno to turn mid-way during an engagement, and have the stego attack it’s tip, only to have the carno spam alt bite and shred the stego.

That was for the carno lol

[crystal stream]

so ur saying carnos should take alot of damage from getting hit on the tip of the tail

[dawn falcon]

If it’s for balance and encourages the carnos to not turn mid-way and using its tip of the tail to tank a stego hit, I’m fine with it

Same problem with Utah originally

[crystal stream]

if they turn mid way when they go in for a headshot they fucking die?

its not like stegos cant swing their tails after the first swing lol

[dawn falcon]

Depends on which body part they’re charging towards

But the stego has a small cool down after it swings lmao

That’s a good window to headshot it

[crystal stream]

carno literally has so much drag and takes forever to recover when it stops running to turn around lmao

way more than enough time for stego to be able to hit it

ur arguing that this is balanced because u can't time ur swings

[dawn falcon]

The carnos turn is literally 1-1,5 seconds. It takes a stego almost 3 seconds to recover from the cool down with the long swing.

That’s pretty much enough time to headshot the stego and run

[crystal stream]

carno is literally massive u can see when its gonna go in

[dawn falcon]

And

[crystal stream]

u can literally just turn ur body to do a shorter swing

[dawn falcon]

This is about tip of the tail balance, not timing

[crystal stream]

if a carno gets hit on the tip of the tail

from a stego tail swing

it shouldn't do shit

[dawn falcon]

It tanks it with your balance

[crystal stream]

because it's not realistic

[dawn falcon]

So it’s another “mah realism” argument

Well kudos to that. Realism isn’t on their radar run

Rn*

[crystal stream]

I don't usually care about realism

but this is extremely unrealistic

"Yeah just got hit on the tip of the tail, 40 hp I'll hunt it later"

like bro what

you can't be serious rn 😂

[dawn falcon]

1. It’s your fault for provoking the stego.
2. You’re implying the tip of the tail damage should be nerfed, which when the current hitbox changes weren’t afloat, Utah could turn mid-fight and tank a stego hit by using the tip of its tail.

[crystal stream]

if utah doesn't take much damage at all from being bit on the tail from a carno then the same should apply for every animal

[dawn falcon]

What.

So you’re using carno logic for a stego..

[crystal stream]

?

ur not gonna bite a stego tail...

literally its main weapon

im using an example

[dawn falcon]

Why are you bringing up biting the stego tail

[crystal stream]

I wasn't...

[dawn falcon]

You literally just-

Okay this is going nowhere

Kudos

[crystal stream]

it's not that it's going nowhere

you just don't understand what i'm saying

like im using utah for example

because when carno bites a utah on the tip of its tail

it doesn't do much damage

so if a carno gets hit on the tip of the tail from a stego

it shouldn't do much damage either

that makes perfect sense

your argument is

"who cares about realism, it's balanced"

all you have to do is time your tail swipes?

it really isn't that complicated lol

to be honest I'm glad that I can even have this conversation because getting bit on the tip of the tail then getting leg break from a rex on legacy was so fucking dumb

locational damage is probably one of my favorite things about evrima

[unkempt glacier]

agreed that some of the hitboxes for our current dinos are a little janky... we also gotta take into account the issues with lag/rubberbanding/desync right now though too. stego definitely shouldn't be two shotting anything by hitting the tips of their tails but what looks like getting hit on the tail to you might be a bodyshot on their end

hopefully they put out a hotfix for the lag soon.... 😭 it def takes away from the enjoyment of the game

[tepid lily]

its like a human getting 2 fingers crushed and then they die

[granite gate]

i mean people have died from getting their feet cut off cos of the blood loss, obviously there's less blood in a carno's tail but frankly stego does not need more nerfs

[alpine plover]

I wouldn't be against upping stego's attack uses by 30-35

Considering how jukeable the attacks are and how bleed wears down their stam in an attrition fight

What do you guys think?

[sinful cove]

i think giving him an aoe sweep that deals less damage but covers a lot of ground would be a good start, upping his jab uses to 35 and making his sweep use more stamina instead

[alpine plover]

I agree

[sinful cove]

because him having one defensive ability that is jukable and tiring is pretty fucking lame when he cant run away from anything on the roster

[alpine plover]

An aoe sweep would be piss easy to use and less demanding to time. Though it coming at a cost of that extra stam.
It'd fuck over people spamming it without real care considering the range it'd cover. While rewarding the players who've got the jab down.

[sinful cove]

and it would be a blessing against the fucking annoying hoards of utah megapacks that are always somewhere nearby

[alpine plover]

I've got the jab down with Stego currently, but with how punishing it is for the average player to miss. I can understand the sentiments on why Stego needs some help.

Just because I personally might stomp with Stego doesn't mean everyone else does.

[golden coral]

@crystal streamI'll just say, a stego hitting a carno on it's tip isn't going to do shit all. Your 40% is a base of the tail hit, if anything, not a tip. So your premise is wrong.

@alpine ploverI don't think giving stego more attacks is a good solution, rather better attacks and other adjustments such as turning, health/blood values, and so on. Make it more of a drawn out hunt in general and so on.

[dim radish]

This reads like a trainwreck, my god

[regal relic]

Ikr loving reading this

[wet pivot]

ppl getting killed by pteras as carno...Smh , JUST ALT BITE , But ye honestly there should be like a bite up or smth

Cuz it is hard timing alt bite

[dusty fable]

@limber elbow please explain...

[limber elbow]

the carno itself has a stun lock that does damage i think nerfing the teno would put it at a unnecessary disadvantage to things it has to face. if you have enough health and get hit by the tail it is very much possible to get out bc the stun does not stack to the point where you cant move forever. when attacking a teno it should be approached very carefully and bait out attacks and make it use stam so it can no longer use the tail attack. a better nerf might be its turn in place speed and other then that i dont think it should have a cool down especially since it also has utahs it needs to fight which can be hell

[dusty fable]

carnos stun is not a stun lock, you can easily recover and get away, its charge has a cooldown so it cant just zip back anf forth until you die

and it does stack, kind of, the stun itslef doesnt stack but you cant move far enough to move out of the way before the next stun

plus it can just stun, the alt claw attack to still deal good damage without it being a pretty much one sided fight

the tail cooldown doesnt have to be long, just long enough for the opponent to recove and move at least a few stem out of the way

[sinful cove]

Its a 50/50 if you play smart and patient

[limber elbow]

it knocks small enough creatures to the ground and allows two bites or more to easily be put in by that time the dino is as good as dead. maybe the growth difference is what really screwed you over bc adult carnos arent pushed to the ground like that

[sinful cove]

Tenonto should have the advantage in this fight anyway

[dusty fable]

oh yeah thats another thing, why did i get knocked over if im twice the size of it...

carnos turn makes it near impossible to be unpredictable

[sinful cove]

it happens irl too where animals can deliver a shock to things larger than them, plus it's slower than you so it should have the upper hand

You can bait tenontos even with carno

[limber elbow]

theres a vid of a small ram knocking tf out a bigger cow

its kinda like that

[dusty fable]

being slower shouldn't give you an upper hand. but i get what your saying

[sinful cove]

Tenonto's tail is thick and muscular as fuck so it isnt hard to believe it can knock the wind out of a small game hunter

[dusty fable]

i just feel like the tail slam is a little broken atm

[sinful cove]

If you are slower than your predator and not designed to hide you should have the upper hand in the melee

Its just balance

[dusty fable]

for 1 on 1's

[sinful cove]

Ive seen carnos kill tenos all the time

[dusty fable]

but carno is a mid tier isnt it, tenos are a psuedo mid

[sinful cove]

Pretty sure carno is psuedo, plus it's a small game hunter

It isnt supposed to brawl

[dusty fable]

teno is a small herbivore...

[sinful cove]

Barely smaller than carno lol

[dusty fable]

things like dryo and hypsi are tiny herbi

[sinful cove]

Small game = utah, galli, dryo, mono, rugops, etc

Hypsi, homa, and the like are tiny

When more small game is added carno shouldn’t be targeting things that require a brawl, it's fast because it is supposed to hunt the fast things like utah, pachy (probably) and galli

[dusty fable]

true

[left scroll]

yeah ngl I really don't feel that teno being a difficult hunt for carno is an issue at all. it's a little frustrating now when the only small game carno can hunt are dryo and hypsi (and who plays hypsi), but once more of the roster is in carno will hardly be lacking in things to hunt.

[sinful cove]

Utah packs also seem fair game for charge ambushes right now too, a lot of utah players who seem oblivious to their surroundings and dont move in time to dodge you lol. Plus they're everywhere

When pachy and galli are out it should be better

[dusty fable]

i do hate how carno just gets sprawled on the ground if you below 75% though..

[left scroll]

they're just not prey to be taken lightly is all. A pack of carnos can still deal with a solo, or even pair of tenos. It takes a lot more caution than most of carno's regular prey

[golden coral]

75% is just about young adult? At that point I don't think you're supposed to hunt a fully grown tenonto. Maybe try for the smaller ones, do they also just knock you completely down?

[alpine plover]

this isn’t true and doesn’t happen in game

[alpine plover]

That logic makes no sense not only because teno and carno are basically the same size, but because they don’t balance around tiers

carno is obviously a pseudo mid to if teno is one

tail slam is literally the only thing stopping carnos from massacring tenos

getting rid of the stun promotes no skill carnivore gameplay

also where did this idea that carno is way stronger then teno come from?

A 200 kg difference on already heavy animals doesn’t matter much

and teno SMASHES its weight into carno with its tail, so that makes weight even more irrelevant

infact, using the weights argument it would make sense for teno to do fractures with its tail slam

[lean shoal]

the only change tail slam would ever get as a nerf without completely making tenonto unviable is if it has a short cooldown of like 5 seconds.

even then you cant be stun locked by a tenontos tail when your carno

[alpine plover]

cool downs are awful, just completely reanimate it

its unintuitive

there should be a visual cue that you cant tail slam again, only on the tenos screen of course

[lean shoal]

carno is faster than tenonto and can run rings around one. as long as your careful of the tail you will probably never die to one.

[alpine plover]

but carno players usually run headfirst without thinking

[lean shoal]

then again if you do get hit by the tail your taking 75-80% of your hp.

[alpine plover]

Thats fine

since you’re the fastest animal in the game

[lean shoal]

carno does also have an auto win button with its charge if it can ambush with it.

[alpine plover]

its completely your fault if you take damage

[lean shoal]

yeah thats the whole thing with carno, if you take damage in a fight its a mistake on your part.

[alpine plover]

in fact, carno should be weaker then most things when it comes to fractures

[grave veldt]

again with the cd's on teno tail slam

so tired of these suggestions

ur literally the fastest thing in the game on land and even more so when ur at 80% ur actually slightly faster then when fully grown

and u wanna come here and complain about a stun lock that could've easily been avoided

carno isnt a brawler anyways its not meant to tank hits

[unkempt glacier]

maybe not a cooldown, but perhaps slow the animation a little or make each extra tailslam take more stamina.. or something. i think tenonto is great but it kinda is treated like the favourite child where power is concerned, it shouldn’t be able to stun repeatedly and take out whole packs because suddenly none of them can move. it stuns a carno once which is fair enough but just reapplying the stun effect until you tailslam something to death with 3 moves is... really silly and takes away from the enjoyment of playing against them, just no-brainer gameplay and even worse vs carnos with their bugged charge not working at times.

their stamina apparently regenerates really fast too (not sure, havent played adult teno before) which makes the stam cost of tailslam not something for them to worry about :/ idk how you can look at tenonto and not think they’re a little overpowered with their 4 attacks, bleed, ridiculous stamina, and stuns combined 🤷‍♀️

oml mobile discord please spare me.

and nobody really keeps in mind that until there’s actually small game for carnos to hunt that will actually keep them fed there’s not many other options for them.

[spare badger]

If you are a carno trying to attack a larger herbivore you need to be careful. Teno should be able to kill carno, cause it can't run away.

[old hull]

carno main go cry cry cry in balance-feedback

i thought those guys could only go m1 m1 m1 m1 , the more ya know

[unkempt glacier]

never said it shouldn’t be able to kill carno lol.

[old hull]

maybe its not that teno is op , but more like you are bad at carno

[unkempt glacier]

🧂

[old hull]

carno is faster , you are the one picking the fight , so if you get stunned and die thats 100% on you

dont want to fight a teno or get stunned? then dont attack one

and did ya forget carno also has a stun attack that almost guarantees a kill on a teno , so use it

[unkempt glacier]

stunned once is fine, repeatedly getting stunned on the spot leaving you a sitting duck who can’t move at all is less fine

i’d use it if it actually worked, it’s bugged and doesn’t work again after the first charge.

[calm ibex]

artificial CDs are awful, we had it before, none liked it

[old hull]

the cooldown bar is bugged but you can still use the charge , i have done it multiple times

[unkempt glacier]

the issue is that tenonto is powerful enough that they aren’t at all afraid of starting a fight with anythjng or tracking a carno down to finish them off after they’ve disengaged, there’s no penalty for them after a fight

no, it’s bugged. it’s unreliable and just doesn’t work most of the time after the first time you charge. sometimes sitting down resets it but not always

[old hull]

utahs can also just chase you down and outstam you as a carno , does that mean utah needs a nerf too?

[unkempt glacier]

no lol. that comparison is grasping at straws

[old hull]

right , because teno is a herbivore and herbivores must be shit :p

[unkempt glacier]

no? i enjoy playing herbivores a lot

[calm ibex]

let me remind what happened when CDs were a thing, you go just close enough to force teno to do preemptive tail slam or get cheap shot in and not react, this allowed the carnivore to go for free 1 or 2 bites without any counter from teno, is that better?

[unkempt glacier]

but tenonto has so much going for it that it doesn’t need to fear even a huge pack of carnos, there’s no consequences for them after a fight that prevent them from going on a stupid killing spree

[calm quartz]

So the issue is.... Tenonto can fight back too well...?

[unkempt glacier]

idc about cooldowns, they can tailslam as much as they like but i’m saying perma stunning opponents is stupid as shit

[calm ibex]

2 carnos is too much for single teno, it cant defend itself from 2 sides without using rocks etc

[unkempt glacier]

i’m glad they can fight back, herbivores deserve better than what they got in legacy

[old hull]

yeah dude what are you even on about , tenos are far from "overpowered"

a single carno can take one out if you know how too

and again carno can do the exact same thing to teno , 1 charge and the teno is 100% dead

[unkempt glacier]

yeah they can, if their charge worked. without the ability to knock them down it’s impossible to not get stun locked

i aint saying they’re wildly overpowered, it’s their tailslam repeated stun thats the issue

[old hull]

then fix the charge instead of nerfing teno for one , and for 2 its not impossible because i myself have done it multiple times

[golden coral]

Last I tested, if you're grown, you can get away from a tailslam-combo without dying

Even against a grown tenonto, it won't actually kill you, so you can turn and get out, if you mess up

[old hull]

i barely play carno and i took out a few tenos , its hard but far from impossible

[unkempt glacier]

ah yes, because one guy managed it that must mean everyone can 😌

and yeah fixing the charge would make a world of difference

[calm ibex]

this is the moment where showing a clip of it would be usefull

[old hull]

if said guy played carno a total of 3 times and he can do it , meanwhile you sir carno main cannot , that really says something dont it sir

[unkempt glacier]

who said i’m a carno main lol. little bit aggro there bud

anyway! the issue is the repeated stun ability, not the tailslam itself. take that for what it is

[calm ibex]

so diminishing CD on being able to get stunned

so lets say x dino is able to get stunned only once every 5 seconds

[golden coral]

Isn't that a thing already?

[calm ibex]

i dont know lol, but if it was then i dont get how would you die as carno to that stun

since it would not be stunlock over and over

[golden coral]

Cause they don't move aside in time I'm guessing

[unkempt glacier]

maybe limit the stun depending on the time between each tailslam? the faster they slam, the less stuns is applied, or something idk im not a game developer.. it doesn’t have to be long at all, just enough so there’s a realistic chance for the carno to get out of dodge.

[golden coral]

The tailslam do hurt a lot, so it's move or die the moment you can more or less

[old hull]

so if carno stuns teno and has a guaranteed kill that is fine , but when teno does it its not ok?

[golden coral]

But like I said, last I tested, you can get away, if you move as soon as you recover, and of course turn to use your tail to take hits as much as you can, you should be fine vs one tenonto

[calm ibex]

id just test how many headshot slams carno can take from teno, and is there enough time to save yourself if you move instanly

[unkempt glacier]

nah i think it takes too long for most of the dinos to get up after getting knocked down, like utah and its fucked failed-pounce cooldown

[old hull]

very few , but thats good and if you nail a headshot with the tailslam , the carno should die

thats what you get for getting headshotted , try better next time

[unkempt glacier]

sure, locational damage is a total godsend

[golden coral]

Carno don't get knocked down though? Only stunned?

[unkempt glacier]

practically the same thing, either way you cant do shit until your dino stands up again

[old hull]

its weird you dont get knocked down but a headshot has a longer stun with a special animation i believe

or something like that , idk

if only the patch notes actually told us these things

[unkempt glacier]

yeah true, the patch notes could do with a bit more info lol

of that was sarcasm then sorry i only got a few hours sleep, i can’t tlly tell right now

[calm ibex]

even the patch notes might be inaccurate

see changed growth times that did not actually go live in the release of p3

[old hull]

nah i meant it , kinda defeats the purpose of patch notes if you dont actually list every change in there

[unkempt glacier]

i agree wholeheartedly there

i’m convinced they nerfed a lot of fish spawn locations but there’s no info on it haha

[old hull]

could be , but who knows yeah lol

[alpine plover]

this is just a lie, or you’re playing with frankly, awful players.

[granite gate]

^

also hunting as a carni should always come with the risk of death, especially if you’re foolish enough to get behind a tenonto

with the way the game is, the only way for a herbi to “win” a fight is usually to run away (sometimes not possible from a pack) or to just kill all the carnis hunting you. ive personally never seen a group of carnis abandon a fight (other than vs. a stego and even then) even after losing 3-4 members

[golden coral]

Tenonto isn't really carno main prey anyway, especially not a fully grown tenonto. Aim for the younger ones :p

[alpine plover]

I mean, carno isn’t really meant to be a physical brawler like teno. Teno is a small tier herbivore made for physical combat and nothing else. the true definition of a brawler.

Carno is made to hunt down small tier prey due to its insane speed and above average biteforce. but there should be no reason a carno should have the advantage over a teno. Teno has many options for fighting, it can predict the carnos movements and go in for a tailslam, carno has the option to either get a good charge on the teno and kill it or run away if possible

[unkempt glacier]

i feel like the point i made about tenonto repeated stuns is being totally overlooked lol. i aint talking about who should beat who or who should be better or who should have the advantage, i'm saying its ability to repeatedly apply stuns to enemies more than once per second, giving their opponents zero chance to actually move away, as well as the amount of time it takes for EVERY dino to get up after being knocked down/stunned, all the while tenonto hardly losing stamina while doing so..... is feckin stupid and boring and for some dinos it's just instadeath before your dino even has the chance to ragdoll.

also we get it, carno is meant to hunt small prey, small game, but what small game? what is there that's small game for it to hunt? is a pack of utahs considered small game? dryo, which nobody plays and AI that doesn't spawn? hypsi, which gives nothing in terms of food and isn't worth hunting until that changes? all the fresh spawn juvis that also give nothing to help hunger? carno players always play in packs of at least 3, if they go for all these Small Game there's simply not enough food to go around, that's why right now they hunt tenontos because they NEED that much food if not more

anyway tenonto perma stun sucks nuts and makes for boring brainless fights 😔 🤘 can't change my mind

[golden coral]

@unkempt glacierBut you can't perma-stun, there's a limit on the stun, even if the tenonto does another tailslam. So you should be good to move away as soon as the first stun wears off. And if you're three carnos, you should have no issues with a single tenonto anyway, even two of you would be fine. Small game can also include younger tenontos and stegos, as well as younger carnos if need be.

[unkempt glacier]

if that IS the case then what sucks is how long the stun lasts, which would match up with how awfully long it takes for creatures to regain control after knockdown effects (i shudder when i think about utahs failing their pounces)

[hallow spire]

I mean u can’t really compare a Utah missing it’s pounce and losing its balance to a carno getting hit with a muscular and big ass tail so it makes sense why a carno would be stunned for that long same for if a Utah was stunned from a carnos charge the knockdown effect would take awhile for u to recover from

[unkempt glacier]

i mean... i don't think it should take them like 3seconds to stand back up after missing a pounce, n that's coming from someone who can't stand utahs lol. if an animal was made to pounce like that i don't think it would struggle to get back on the move

[versed rune]

this “small game hunter” echo chamber for carno is beginning to sound like the “allo is generic” echo chamber

[unkempt glacier]

again like i've said, the first teno stun length i think is fine, it's the fact that it can continue to stun a carno in that state without any downside to it giving the carno no chance to actually get out of dodge

[hallow spire]

Yea but losing ur balance isn’t gonna take that long to recover from now if a Utah pounced a tree than yea

[unkempt glacier]

i think it's alright if it gets knocked off its target by a tree or something yeah, especially if the animal was moving fast like a carno (i definitely use trees to my advantage vs utahs) but if it just lands on flat grass 10ft away then it's a bit strange for it to struggle honestly

[hallow spire]

Oh ok I see what u saying now in that case I agree

[unkempt glacier]

[alpine plover]

The Isle

[golden coral]

Maybe so, but last I tested, the stun from tenonto works like that. Though I don't think carno got knocked down, only stunned, and it could/can? still bite at that. As for utah, maybe the stun is a little too long, but as long as we got "slots" it's fine, not to mention that there needs to be something to prevent a utah from just pouncing until it lands/use pounce otherwise as a movement option and so on.

[unkempt glacier]

yeah true, utah being able to spam pounce would be a pretty big issue, i hadn't considered that.. they aren't in need of a buff atm i don't think lol

[spare badger]

@bold ridge I like your idea but there should still be some form of cooldown so you can't run around and stun an entire herd while your pack bites them all. A cooldown of 20-ish seconds is needed.

[vagrant mural]

I mean how exactly do you implement a cooldown when it requires you to run at top speed and wasted quite a bit of stam, even if it was buffed for easier turning and less stam consumption, it’s still gonna be a hard time doing the rest of the stuff

[bold ridge]

hard cooldowns are fucking stupid

[vagrant mural]

And yes, you ambushed and knocked down 1 target, but here’s the thing, you put energy into that, chances are if there’s more than 1 enemy they’re aware of you and will either A be fighting back or B bobbing and weaving away, and if you wanted to pursue you have less stam

[bold ridge]

also with reduced acceleration and turn radius, alongside the fact that it would still take stam would make it impossible to spam the ability

[vagrant mural]

Utah and tenonto both don’t get cooldowns on their abilities, but they do require effort

[spare badger]

Fair

You do have to get up to top speed so that's a cooldown in of itself

[alpine plover]

@bold ridge

I agree with the concept but your idea for it is flawed

removing the cooldown would make carno busted

they would just spam charge and auto win

and with the reduced consumption, they would probably be able to repeat it

and like what does carno gain from removing the cooldown?

it doesn’t benefit the small game hunting playstyle

also what small game is carno supposed to hunt?

utah?

yeah good luck when they juke the living hell out of you, and a competent utah will never get ambushed

and whats the point of nerfing carno NOW?

[lament cloak]

well, eventually carno should be nerfed into hunting small game. but for now, since there isnt very many food options, carno is kinda ok

[alpine plover]

Theres no generalist carnivore, carno can act as a sudo allo until other carnis get added, like cerato and bary.

[bold ridge]

carno gains a useful charge with a removed cooldown, if the charge heavily locks the turning and still drains stam a good bit, combined with reduced turn radius and acceleration, spamming charge would likely lead to a massive disadvantage for the carno

[bold ridge]

also this would be a rebalance, not a nerf. Carno shouldn't be a brawler.

it isn't making carno less effective, it's making carno more inclined to utilize its ability and advertised playstyle

[sinful cove]

When pachy is added carno will have 2 animals im its proper range to hunt plus the juvies of larger animals so honestly i think those change should come sooner than later

It should be an ambusher with a lower group size when pachy comes or in the patch after

[spare badger]

^^

@dawn falcon This makes perfect sense, great idea I think

[dawn falcon]

[alpine plover]

@regal relic although having the red-vignettes at the edge of the screen grow linearly would make sense.. I think it is MUCH more accurate and better to just take a quick look at the character screen if you want to know how much HP you have..

Most of the times, yes first - second - third and fourth screen were something we were used to and kind of gave us an idea.. but I don't think that is needed anymore because we have the health indicator in the character screen which is a lot more accurate than basing yourself on the screens

[regal relic]

true but also when you're facing off multiple Utahs you don't have time to tab in

[alpine plover]

good point there

[regal relic]

it's more of an indication that you can see mid fight to approximately understand your capabilities

I mean, if you or I got shot I think we'd understand how bad it is without looking at the character screen

[alpine plover]

yeah, although I do agree that it is not a bad idea..it wouldn't really work all that well right now because

We are unaware of the dinosaur starts so far.. as in, how much health do they have, so.. we wouldn't be exactly sure of how much health we have left by basing ourselves in whichever screen you're currently in..

[regal relic]

I meant HP not in numbers but in %

So if you're half HP the vignette would reflect it

and would get redder/larger if you keep going down in HP

unless the devs want us to not understand how much HP we have to simulate adrenalin or something

[regal relic]

mid fight*

[alpine plover]

yeah, basically what Legacy has right now

but, as I said.. even with the screen turning redder and redder the lower HP you have.. you still wouldn't know how much HP you have left

[regal relic]

that's not the intent in my mind, the idea is you could understand if you're low, or closer to full

it's not about precision it's about understanding for example if you're a Utah, how many more carno bites you can take

since rn the average bites you can take before dying is around 3

"oh my screen is super red, I think I might not be able to take 1 more bite" you would think to yourself instinctively while running from the carno

since in that situation you can't stop and check your hp

and the current screen just says "oh you're below 80% but how much I won't tell you"

[alpine plover]

I understand what you mean though.. you want somewhat Legacy's damage indicator.. where it better reflects your HP.. but, yeah

whilst that wouldn't be bad and it would perhaps help in situations of adrenaline.. I don't know

I still think there is a tiny margin where you can just press whichever binding you chose for character screen and quickly check

I have it in MB3 and I can do it..

but yeah, I think also possibly part of the reason why it's been done like this is for the survival horror aspect.. not really knowing how much HP you have left and like.. feeling insecure because you can't really tell how close you are from dying

but yeah

[regal relic]

the issue you can't move while having the window open

that's my only gripe with it

since opening it stops you

very much not good while being chased

[regal relic]

that's a very good point

we'll see, it's up to the devs to answer what their intent with it is

[alpine plover]

true

[golden coral]

@covert osprey You can hold your own very well, as you stated, flight is a great advantage and there isn't really much any other critter can to do you. You can even get your food on the fly as it were. You are pretty much a living spectator cam, and that's about it. Survival wise, I would think pteras rate very high in the game, as good as dryos or similar. As for growth times, I don't know right now how long they are, but I doubt the ptera and utah actually grow at the same rate, at least they didn't use to at all.

[covert osprey]

The Utah and the Ptera are both 1 hour if i'm not mistaken

[sinful cove]

utah is 1hr 15m isnt it

[covert osprey]

idk wiki may be lying

but if that's the case i'd be fine with that

[golden coral]

Patchnotes says 75 min for utah, last update. No idea on ptera, but I don't think it's that long at least.

[sinful cove]

a good ptera can kill juvie/subs and finish off injured dinos too

[golden coral]

Yeah.. I would not trust any unofficial wikia on info..

[sinful cove]

it isnt supposed to be a combat focused animal, it's fine where it is

[covert osprey]

i don't have any problem with the ptera playstyle for the most part, but as a carnivore(i know they're 'omnivores/piscivores,') I'd like to be able to hunt something other than fish. Even Juveniles can be difficult for a pteranodon to hunt down, since most of them have some form of counterplay against you. I think just a chance at bleed is important for most any carnivore, and with the high speeds that a ptera is attacking at, it's bound to shred flesh, not just bludgeon someone with pecks. Ptera has the most telegraphed attack in the game, and gets one shot by most anything in the game, which makes me desire more from it.

[left scroll]

i think part of the issue is we still lack a lot of the small animals

so long as the dryo doesn't see them coming, they can hunt dryo fairly well. and hypsi quite easily too. and we'll be getting plenty of other small animals in the future. I can totally see ptera nabbing tacos, oros, velos, homalos. maybe even a troodon if they're able to avoid being bit

[grave veldt]

if u want to hunt things and not just hunt fish your playing the wrong dinosaur

thats why theres 50+ playables coming

[somber bone]

Ptera is 45mins

[lament cloak]

@covert osprey ptera already is 45 minutes

[alpine sleet]

i must say wasn't their a person name sadness #BenMain on dis server??

[spare badger]

@rustic torrent This has already been confirmed, sucho will be added soon after the Dino's on the inhabitants list

[rustic torrent]

Where was this confirmed? Also the inhabitants list includes Galli/Ovi/Kentro/Beipi/Dilo/Herra/Magy, which if waiting to add ALL of those first, would still take a long time. I'm suggesting Sucho take priority over those extra additions

[spare badger]

Pretty sure punch said so when they updated the roadmap. I 100% agree, we need an apex carnivore on the island, and sucho being pseudo apex is a great choice

[covert osprey]

sorry, it's so difficult to find up-to-date, reliable information for the isle.

[covert osprey]

I think scavengers should be given the ability to eat rotten meat at a reduced penalty

[soft girder]

it will and the only one we know currently is Cerato

[covert osprey]

I think the Ptera should also be a scavenger

[soft girder]

well.. we'll wait to see what diets will bring us

[covert osprey]

true, very excited for that

[lament cloak]

compy

[soft girder]

right, forgot

[grave veldt]

actually I hope they got more dietary stuff for eating fish rather then gore

so it cements their piscivore gliding gameplay that is its niche

[normal tulip]

Can teradacytl not fly when bleeding or something? I got clawed by a raptor and I bucked his ass off and ran into bushes. lost him for 10 seconds. I was holding space but my bird wasnt flapping at all. So frustrating. Like if he can't fly thats one thing but I can I atleast see him trying to flap but struggling? Maybe like a limp flying. Animals limp with legs when they are hurt ?

[supple basin]

Bug

[normal tulip]

I just realized its lag

i spawned in again. cant even jump after 10 minutes of growth

[supple basin]

You have to "fall" or swim to reset the space button to be abble to fly again

Besides on juvie juvie stage you have very little stam so you have to be carefull

[light gate]

Why do raptors and carnotaur have basically the same growth time when raptors can get 1 shot so easily

[dim crown]

Because Raptors have all they need to evade&survive Carnos attacks, and also, Raptors can easily, get on the Carnos "blind spots" in order to attack it, or just go in for some tail bites as easy. 1 good pounce and a few good bites and its a dead Carno.

[swift saffron]

Ya that’s not true carno is much more stronger then a raptor

I take it you never 1v1 a carno as raptor then carno always wins

[vagrant mural]

In a straight on fight carno should win, but Utah does have the tools to evade

[alpine plover]

If the carno is at least semi competent. the carno will win 100% of the time. Thankfully utah can easily juke a carno and run into a forest.

[dim crown]

Wrong, i have.

Even 1v2, and win, it can happen.

[swift saffron]

I would pay to see u take down 2 carnos as Utah

[alpine plover]

make it 5

[grave veldt]

2 carnos as utah?

thats so cap

[rapid charm]

@winged totem ma'am this is wendys drive through

[broken aspen]

I like that the swamp isn't front and center @valid gate , from a map placement standpoint it's nice. As for the cannibalism with crocs (and other species in gen) yeah it's bad. Small crocs can't outrun big crocs and it's getting increasingly difficult to not play aggressively defensive as a Utah/Carno with same species. Bite first ask later. Especially as a carno my deaths are from other carnos predominately and they most always just leave my body without eating or there's already kills I've made so no need to cannible.

[supple basin]

It got me every times that "cannibalism" is a therm that I see only in evrima. People take rexes and giga on legacy and kill and eat rexes and gigas a lot but never heard that therm before. People, with diets or not will kill because it is fun not because they are hungry. So peoples, even with a perfect diets will be very capable to see their own kind be absolutly okay on food and health, kill you and then leave.

Maybe diets will be a way to make it that happen less but it will not eradicate KOSing.

[vagrant mural]

He said it doesn’t matter if they’re hungry

[sinful cove]

Do carno players know that they can just choose not to fight a tenonto that’s slower than them lol

[vagrant mural]

No

I HAVE to bum rush the brawler herbi which is similar in size to me

[hollow canyon]

It might be slower but it does have a tonne more stamina than Carno does.

[broken aspen]

@supple basin tbh it's really only disheartening as a Utah because they thrive best as pact animals. Nesting will help as you'll at least start in a pack which decreases the chance of getting cannibalized.

[supple basin]

Well I got leanrt the hard way that the isle is not a "fair" game (when you got killed by a theri as juv diablo or galli as baby trike it did seems to be really unfair). But as dev put stuff to try to cool down that (the fact that you heal slower than in legacy, the amount of scars taken will make longer to heal, if you are hungry you will take longer to heal etc ) kinda prevent going absolute rampage without punishment. Utahs and carnos don't have that much problem packing rn and for me having a little bit of pack of wolves vs pack of wolves isn't a bad stuff. Bringing some anxiety about your own specie can be interresting. Only stuff I can tell you is, if you wanna have a friend utah, either you risk it and go for it trying to get an invite, play with friends or only try to go for a weaker utah than you, that way they won't have the advantage if they don't wanna pack.

[covert osprey]

@valid gate The adult deino is actually slower than the sub adult.

[slim dragon]

@fallen chasm There are several things I reall don't like with your suggestion.
200N is too lowfor Carno, it's barely higher than a Utah's biteforce. Legacy stats don't matter anyway, and remember weight plays absolutely no role in health in evrima.
Ambush speed was bad, and Cera isn't designed to be an ambusher. It's a brawler and a scavenger.
Turn radius from Legacy doesn't matter either, sure Cera can have a faster alt-bite than Carno, but it shouldn't get one that is insanely fast.

[lament cloak]

^^^
pretty much sums up what I thought was bad too

[fallen chasm]

That's fair within reason, but if it is a brawler and a scavenger, make it a brawler and a scavenger. It can't brawl against a dinosaur with equal bite force and far greater speed. What would you suggest here?

[slim dragon]

Who said it has equal biteforce and greater speed ?

Legacy stats don't matter.

[lament cloak]

well carno is definitly going to be faster, but yeah, cerato can have more bite

[fallen chasm]

Do we really think a Cera is going to be given more than 350 bite force though?

[slim dragon]

I'm pretty sure it will

Carno is renowned to have a pretty weak bite and is made to be a small prey hunter and a bleeder in evrima

[lament cloak]

cerato 400 bite, and carno 300 bite seems like a good enough bite advantage to me, cerato can have more health, and a decent amount of bleed resistance so carno will have trouble bleeding it out

also a thrash attack would be cool, where cerato bites, and then thrashes its head to do more bleed and damage

though, idk if it would fit cerato

[slim dragon]

I think it could
Or it could be given some purpose for its horns, even though irl they probably weren't used to fight

[rapid charm]

@covert osprey deino spends most of its time in water which would make the mud disappear so instead it has bleed resistance

[covert osprey]

but mud allows for stealth, too, it makes no sense why they can't wallow

[rapid charm]

stealth on land yeah but deino shouldn't really be on land

[hollow canyon]

Cerato's ambush in the legacy was one of the worst if not outright the worst in the game. It also doesn't need to have a higher biteforce to be capable of surviving an encounter with a Carno. This isn't legacy anymore and animals aren't really reliant on running in and spamming lmb to survive any and every encounter. Just give it a decent set of stats where it's about as tanky as Carno and deals a similar amount of damage while being far more agile than Carno and it's going to be good. Neither Carno nor Cerato should deal less than 340dmg imo.

[covert osprey]

why not, they're semi-aquatic, not fully aquatic

[sinful cove]

semi aquatic just means it can be on land, not that it should be

it shouldnt be fighting on land, but it can travel on land

[covert osprey]

deino can handle itself just fine if it has to. in fact it can actually be effective since players won't expect it.

[sinful cove]

i know it is

i am saying it shouldnt be able to just drag its ass on land and start brawling

[covert osprey]

not what anyone ever suggested

just that it doesn't make sense for it not to be able to wallow in mud

when it's in water, i get it

but when on land why not

[sinful cove]

i mean it doesnt have much reason to, but i guess it should be able to

it would be washed off when it went back in to water so it would be useless mos tof the time

but eh

if its traveling and doesnt want to be followed as easily why not

its land abilities should be reduced before it gets additional help though

[covert osprey]

agreed

[covert osprey]

that's fair

[rustic torrent]

@covert osprey Pretty sure the devs asked the community if Deino should wallow or not and the community overwhelmingly decided bleed resist was the best option

[hollow canyon]

Again: wallowing isn't used just for bleed. It's also useful for hiding your tracks. The only situation where you'd ever want to do that is when you're being chased by another Deino but that's pretty much the only scenario in which Deino can be threatened in the first place. I don't really see much of a reason not to allow it to wallow.

[rustic torrent]

I guess, but it shouldn't be encouraged to run on land to hide? They just need to add hiding spots to rivers and the swamp and it won't need to wallow at all

[hollow canyon]

It should be able to do that though

I don't see any reason why Deinosuchus should be unable to choose to go on land, wallow and walk in land to lose another Deinosuchus. Should it be able to hide in the water without waterscent exposing it 24/7? Yea but that shouldn't be the only way to approach a situation like that.

[alpine plover]

@covert osprey

thats why we dont need to wallow in mud

[covert osprey]

need to is different from should be able to

[covert osprey]

exactly

[covert osprey]

bleed resist makes sense because of armor, not a lack of wallowing

[covert osprey]

exactly

[covert osprey]

hiding spots in rivers doesn't make sense because you can't breathe underwater forever; and watersense is powerful.

[rustic torrent]

It's not really necessary tho, not for Deino, hence why it's not in the game

idc if they add it later

but it's not priority and isn't required for Deino

[covert osprey]

again, it's really only super useful for ambushing in niche situations OR hiding as a baby

but... if pteranodons can wallow in mud, why not the deino?

stopping bleed largely doesn't really even mean anything for the ptera anyway, since one shot from anything likely is going to mean death, regardless, that coupled with the high health regen

pteras shouldn't be on the ground hiding either, but yet they have the ability to via wallow

[rustic torrent]

It's more useful for Ptera, it's not like things can really scent its footprints when it flies but if it gets bit by a juvie Utah and is bleeding, it'd need to be able to wallow to stop it

Deino doesn't NEED it

again

idc if they add it later, but they don't need to add it right now, Deino doesn't need it

[covert osprey]

nobody cares about if it NEEDS it or not.

[rustic torrent]

nobody, like, two people? lol

[covert osprey]

more likely if you get bit by a juvie you're dead, especially with pounce. If you escape, you really don't even need to wallow.

so... no, i've not really found wallowing to be useful at all as a ptera

and only do it for the cute animation

why wallow when you can be invulnerable up in a tree

and just rest, free of danger

[rustic torrent]

I've been bit by juvie Utahs a few times and needed to wallow to stop the bleeding

[covert osprey]

you didn't NEED to though, as resting effectively saves you from death anyway

nothing is going to kill you up on a treetop

except maybe other pteras, in which case you're probably dead regardless

[rustic torrent]

It actually doesn't, you can die from bleed even if you're resting

[covert osprey]

pretty sure that's not a thing, only if you get up

[rustic torrent]

Legacy was like that

Evrima you can die from bleed even when resting

best thing to do is run away, wallow, and then find a place to sit

[covert osprey]

either way, the ptera's health regen is strong enough to counteract it

you're likely to lose more blood in that process anyway

[rustic torrent]

But it still uses it more for that purpose than Deino does

[covert osprey]

since ptera is more vulnerable than other animals when wallowing

[lament cloak]

that was legacy, you can die from bleed while sitting in evrima

[rustic torrent]

If your blood is really low you kind of need to wallow before sitting to slow that shit down

Deino doesn't really have this issue, it can just go to the other side of the water

also Deino using mud to hide its scent from other Deinos only works AT ALL as a juvie, an adult Deino can be heard from very far away so if it wants to cannibalize you, wallowing isn't going to stop it lol

[covert osprey]

except again, if you're that low to begin with you're not surviving the encounter. ptera is squishy. you either survive with a couple bites or don't survive at all, realistically

[lament cloak]

wallowing serves two purposes, to clot bleed, and to hide your tracks. they didn't want to let deinos hide their tracks so it would be harder to do things on land, but they also didn't want them to be bad against bleed, so they gave it extra bleed resistance, also mud would just come off in the water

[covert osprey]

i mean i know QOL updates will make flying less buggy with bleed but stil

[covert osprey]

but it still doesn't explain why they shouldn't be able to, no matter what

[alpine plover]

https://tenor.com/view/cope-dont-care-crying-cry-chips-gif-21606846

[lament cloak]

so they can't hide their tracks, if they hide their tracks it would be super easy to just run into the forest and hide, and they didn't want land deinos

if it wasn't already easy enough

[covert osprey]

these are semi-aquatic creatures, not aquatic. i'll say it again

[rustic torrent]

for a playable that spends 80% of its time in the water, and will most likely dart back to the water if needed to when OUT of the water, it's a waste of time and resources to add it for that playable idk why u want Deino to wallow so bad man

[covert osprey]

the natural counter to land dinos is their dependance on water

[covert osprey]

it's really not that much of a waste of resources if it's a mechanic already implemented

[lament cloak]

you run to the forest to GROW, not as an adult

[covert osprey]

exactly, which is a problem in the game right now, where small deinos don't have many options

you guys are arguing for why it's not optimal, not why it shouldn't be in the game

which isn't really valid

[rustic torrent]

I'd be fine with juvie Deino wallowing, but adult Deino makes no sense and purpose wallowing (also it'd look dumb, like how is an 8 ton gator not gonna look stupid rolling around in mud for no reason)

[lament cloak]

thats more of a problem of there being nothing on the floor of the river for them to hide in and them basically having wall hacks with their water sense, rather than them not being able to run to the forest.

[covert osprey]

i mean it's a nice compromise but again, makes no sense as to why not

[rustic torrent]

If it's not needed right now, and they might add it later, then just wait until later

[covert osprey]

there are a lot of 'unneeded' mechanics, a lot of implementations are quality of life and things that are just nice to have, such as the ability to carnos and utahs to catch fish

[lament cloak]

that is unintended

[covert osprey]

i don't understand how any animal is going to look "smart" rolling in mud lmao

[covert osprey]

doubtful, it's likely hard coded into the game

[rustic torrent]

That also isn't the same, since catching fish serves as a last resort for food AND it doesn't require an animator to make an extra fishing animation specific to the animal to do it

[covert osprey]

either that or not specified in the creature that bites the ripple

[covert osprey]

except that carnos and raptors don't NEED to fish, they already have AI, right?

you see my point?

[lament cloak]

[rustic torrent]

No, because you're advocating for an extra animation for an animal most players and devs agree doesn't need to or should roll in mud

[covert osprey]

i think you're just bitter for no reason, it's a suggestions channel and again, you've provided really no reason as to why it shouldn't be able to. Using up resources really isn't an argument, it's a playable-wide mechanic, or at least should be.

[rustic torrent]

It's like advocating for a jumping animation for Deino bc everything else can jump, why can't Deino even though it makes no sense for it to jump in the first place and no one is going to jump as Deino bc it doesn't do anything

[covert osprey]

no, actually that's completely different and a really odd comparison

[rustic torrent]

I'm not bitter lol I literally said I'm fine with it, but I don't think its necessary

[covert osprey]

as most things that can't jump are based off of weight... what a weird comparison

nobody in their right mind would argue for a stego to be able to jump bro

[rustic torrent]

u are weirdly upset about this whole thing

[covert osprey]

projection

[rustic torrent]

but Deino probably won't get a wallow so I don't know what else to tell you

damn lol

got me bro

[covert osprey]

oddly definitive statement for someone who has nothing to do with the production of the game itself

[lament cloak]

1. looks stupid
2. makes life easier for land deinos
3. will hardly be used, and requires an extra animation, and since it would be pretty much useless, means it requires extra uneccesary work

there is 3 reasons

[covert osprey]

and i really don't understand why you're so pressed about the suggestion

[rustic torrent]

this is an unproductive conversation now lmao

[lament cloak]

all your arguments have been is "why not"

[rustic torrent]

I'm nor pressed I was just discussing it? omg

[covert osprey]

1. not an argument, what dino looks smart when rolling? 2. not necessarily true, they still have horrible stamina on land as well as speed, and thirst dependance like no other. 3. could be used for general stealth, and would primarily be utilized by baby deinos who have a better chance at evading bigger deinos on land

[covert osprey]

why not when compared to the rest of the roster

[lament cloak]

actually, their thirst timer is 30 minutes just like everything else iirc

[covert osprey]

discussing it is one thing but getting all defensive about whether or not it'll be added is weird

[rustic torrent]

does this dude come off as really irritated to you too bc his vibes are off to me

[covert osprey]

yes, but they can't really travel long distances on land to get to water. they still have a huge thirst dependance

[covert osprey]

im just discussing bretheren

[lament cloak]

i mean, deino life is alreadyr easy, you just find a secluded location with fish and bam, your fully grown. just gotta wait 5 hours. your just advocating for land deinos, and to make deino life even easier

also this is one of the worst statements I have seen in this discord

lmao

[rustic torrent]

You're pushing negative intent on what I said when what I said was pretty neutral, bc I thought this was a discussion, and after I stated multiple times that I don't really care and I just don't think it'll be something people want/devs will add

it just sounds like ur taking our disagreement super personally lmao

[covert osprey]

saying that something looks dumb when wallowing is literally the same thing... you're just biased towards yourself

[covert osprey]

again, not an argument for why it shouldn't be in the game. it's baffling why they can't just simply wallow in the mud

[covert osprey]

i'd argue the opposite, but we can agree to disagree

[lament cloak]

have given you reason after reason to why not. your arguing for the sake of consistency, im arguing against it because it allows more playstyles that shouldn't be in the game for deino

have a good day

[covert osprey]

consistency is important, imo. i agree with your reasons on why it's not 'optimal,' but not why it shouldn't be in the game.

you too

[sinful cove]

Why the fuck does troodon need gliding too lmao

He should stay the way he is

If you want to jump people from trees just play herrera

Also pretty sure sino is smaller than a velociraptor so youd basically be replacing troodon with venomous compy

[vagrant mural]

sino didn't even have a venomous bite

but then again the isle

[wraith galleon]

the time and resources to change troodon to fit that playstyle would be better spent on other things

herra is already gonna be the extra small tier tree climber that attacks from above

[slim dragon]

Replace Troodon with Sinornithosaurus
Why not replace Utah with microraptor while we're at it, it's venomous and can glide too

[dusky surge]

let T-Rex be venomous and also glide

[sinful cove]

replace rex with nocturnal semiaquatic arboreal tarbosaurus

[fathom wren]

Out of curiosity is there any plans to make it so people cant group up in gorups of like 20?

[dim radish]

Group limit already exists

[dim radish]

Lets give it wings and the power to shoot lighting while we're at it

[fathom wren]

yah i know group limits exist but thats not stopping people from making groups of 20+carnos and raptors making it near impossible to play on some servers.

[covert osprey]

you can play private servers.

[calm ibex]

from what i recall at a point there was a server with rules and recording, and people still gave jackshit about it

[fathom wren]

youre right i can but i am just curious if they plan on implementing something to prevent massively oversized groups on official.

[normal tulip]

compy gets group limit of 20

little rat chickens

[normal tulip]

well duh

its a scavneger

they come in huge numbers

kinda like austroraptor

[dim radish]

Compy is just food for everything that crosses its path.
They will be able to hide pretty well since they are so small but else they don't have much going for them

[normal tulip]

isnt austro raptor just food for everything

its the mass numbers is the gimmick

[raw cypress]

no

[raw cypress]

higher

[primal token]

So I would like cast light on a Utah and Carno fighting problem.
I would like to show you guys a clip and hear your opinions on it.
It's not a perfect clip, but its the only one I currently have.

In the clip I play as a Utah fighting 2 carnos (not a fight i normally would take, but I wanted to showcase the carnos attack range).

I get hit by the carnos several times without even being remotely close to them.
Not only that, but each time I get hit from a further distance, the damage is calculated from my body, insted of the tip of my tail.

Oddly enough, I have not noticed this problem in juvie utah and carno fights.

I have already made a "balance feedback" on this, I just wanted to show the video.

https://youtu.be/a-aVmKgdfJ8

[dusky surge]

yea, lag v carno is REALLY bad

they can kick your ass from miles away

i once got killed by lagspike and died from only three tailtip bites

[primal token]

It's just weird that it only occures on adult carnos

And doesn't feel like lag tbh

[dusky surge]

ikr, carno feels really bad to fight

[primal token]

exactly

[dusky surge]

i had a similar issue today

carno kicked my ass easily because i was lagged right back into his mouth

[primal token]

It's not that you lag back at it, it just hit you 5 meters away

[dusky surge]

the only way to really beat a carno is to land solid pounces too, which makes it worse as they are soo fast, weirdly desynced and will often leave you MASSIVELY open

[primal token]

yes

[low nimbus]

@peak pumice Sinornithosaurus was actually found out to not have had a venomous bite

[regal relic]

Adult carno bites are de-synced to hell

its so hard to fight them as a Utah because you gotta think about your position 1 second behind where you really are since that's where they bite you

Haven't noticed this issue with any other Dinos

[dusky surge]

yea, its bad

also i agree, alt-bite on carno is complete garbage

most of the carno's options outside of just biting with M1 is pretty garbage tbh

[dawn falcon]

Carnos alt bite isn’t slow depending on where you’re pointing lol

If it’s forward?

It’s way more useful than regular biting

Cause it’s fast

Now when you’re pointing behind yourself..

Yeah it’s horrible

[unkempt glacier]

yeah the behind part is where it's the most useless... like it's meant to combat things trying to assride, right? by the time ur carno bites the thing behind u has gone back around lmao

0/10 ability

[vagrant mural]

Honestly it’s useful for baiting stupids who try to chase you, put enough distance, and alt bite behind you for fat damage

[alpine plover]

@unkempt glacier

You and others aren’t using the move correctly

its actually very useful if you simply predict when a utah is going for a hit

Not every move is going to be simple to understand, thats how you create shit combat systems imo

[unkempt glacier]

hmmm that's true, although with the rubberbanding issues right now i dont know if predicting is possible haha

[alpine plover]

Well ideally it would work like that

in a non laggy environment it works just fine for its purpose

which is sadly rare these days

[unkempt glacier]

maybe some day they'll fix the server lag and we'll be freed from these chains 😔🤘

out of curiosity.... does alt bite do more damage than lmb? 👁️

[alpine plover]

Not sure

[alpine plover]

if it does its only a little bit

[sinful cove]

If hypsis spit was reduced to much less range than currently it would still be a useless defense because the predator would be right on you by the time you use it and it wouldn’t matter anymore

The ability should be worth using, if it was close range and destroyed half your hunger (fuck hypsis who were already hungry and looking for food in that case as well) then it isn't worth it at all and the better option is to just run

[dim radish]

Hypsi spit needs to be better. Doesn't need a nerf

[sinful cove]

yeah that suggestion changes it from shit ability to shit ability but for different reasons lol

[normal tulip]

Aiming needs to be easier controls

or maybe its just lag

idk

[sinful cove]

Nah the aiming is terrible for what is supposed to be a defensive ability for an animal who gets oneshot by almost everything

Doesnt need lag to make it bad because it already is lol

[normal tulip]

isnt the quilldino fast as fuck tho

?

[sinful cove]

No it is slower than its predators, its size is an advantage if your pursuer isnt persistent though

Wait by quilldino you meant hypsi right

[normal tulip]

yeah

Thats the quill dino that spits puke

[sinful cove]

Yeah its slower than its predators, its gotta hope whoever is after it is bad at tracking or isnt interested enough lol

Luckily it has no grow time for how useless it is though

Its only good for spitting at people who arent attacking it to either troll or mixpack, even though its spit should be primarily defensive

[primal token]

The rubberbanding isn't that bad anymore tbh

[lament cloak]

@worldly thunder its better that our... thing... is called troodon, no need for a super fake animal design to carry the name of a real animal... again. like utah, and anky

[worldly thunder]

Honestly I was going to say something about jp velo utahraptor and anky but I didn't want to make a huge message about it, especially since I'm trying to keep watch of my gecko while typing lmao

[sinful cove]

Troodon looks nothing at all like Stenonychosaurus, Latenivenatrix or especially sinornithosaurus or dromeosaur and people want it to carry a real life name? Why?

More dinos in this game should be dubbed with fictional species like Novaraptor/Apolloraptor

[spare badger]

I didn't even know Troodon wasn't a thing anymore until last month, which made me sad cause I like Troodon. But, even though Dinos like Brontosaurus have been de-classified a long time ago, but people still use it, so I don't think Troodon, which has only been de-classified a few years, to be in a game is fine.

[vagrant mural]

Bronto is actually a thing again, has been for like 6 years

[normal tulip]

they really need to make smaller crocs faster or something. I can never become a full adult unless I camp the stupid fish tank.

Faster on land maybe? Makes sense since the squared cubed law means my mass isnt as dense as tubbo behind me, the ratio of movement for mass is in my favor

[tight pecan]

Brontosaurus has actual remains to base that off of, though. More than just teeth, like Troodon. I'm not averse to having some wastebasket dinos in game, though. Some of the wastebaskets, like Megalosaurus, even get redos later.

[spare badger]

Damn my Dino knowledge is hella outdated

[slim dragon]

@covert osprey A ptera swiping its foot claws at you would be as effective as slapping someone with a slice of ham. Ptera didn't use them to catch fish, it used its beak.
I don't see why dinos should rock trees to make pteras fall down. For one, if you are big enough to shake a tree, then you probably don't have anything to do with pteras, and two, the ptera will just have to take off, flap a few meters and land on another tree. Remember herra and quetz will be here later to threaten ptera.

[rapid charm]

Plus destructible trees are already confirmed are they not?

[slim dragon]

Yes, I think they are

[alpine plover]

they're confirmed

[vagrant mural]

yeah

[teal pecan]

@covert osprey you're saying that if both ptera and animal that stopped will be knocked out for a second it won't change anything aside from ptera being able to get away, but it would, cuz in that case you couldn't even stop ptera from attacking you since it would just fly away even tho it made mistake, which doesn't really seem fair

[dusky surge]

ptera is arguably the most viable animal atm, it absolutely does not need all these buffs

[vagrant mural]

ptera is in a perfectly fine spot currently

[dusky surge]

it has zero natural predators, unmatched mobility, a wider selection of food choices than most of the roster and can choose freely between eating PvE fish or PvP corpses left behind by other animals. I don't want it nerfed, since it has a perfectly valid playstyle for the creature it represents, but absolutely it needs no buff

[vagrant mural]

actually utah is pretty good at catching and killing ptera assuming it doesn't sit on the top of the mountains 100% of the time

[dusky surge]

eh, any smart ptera will naturally stay away from utahs, but you do have a point, utah stands as the ptera's biggest predator (at least until quetz rocks up)

its also kinda because utahs dont know how far is too far and will literally jump off mountains to eat a ptera in its perch, which is hilarious, but not always effective. If a utah can figure out a way into your perch to eat you, it just will, that's how utahs work

[vagrant mural]

herra and other small and mobile carnis will help cover its overwhelming advantage of just being able to sit anywhere essentially

bar trees and the mountains basically every common roosting spot is accesible by utah

[dusky surge]

herra maybe. Can't see little boys like troodon really causing much concern for pteras, outside of making some bogus calls to see if some dumb ptera tries to assist

[vagrant mural]

also pachy

considering its supposed to be a mountain herbi with a good jump

[dusky surge]

pachy is meant to be a mountain goat style character i think

[regal relic]

if the map stays the same people will just play as Patchies in center anyway its sad 😦

[dusky surge]

breaks bones and knocks down anyone who tries to challenge it to give them even more fractures or a painful death

[regal relic]

Pool - Center - Shallows

[dusky surge]

thats true, something must be done about these darn hotspots

[vagrant mural]

map won't stay the same

[regal relic]

Did they say they are making a new map or editing the old one

[vagrant mural]

jace is editing the map

also spero and other new maps will eventually be coming

[dusky surge]

south spawn is deino kindergarten, especially in that pond
centre spawn is the arena for every creature to battle it out in. Access to shallow streams insentivises this
only pteras spawn north because big mountain gives them free access to where they wanna choose to nest
north east is where stegos and tenos spawn. Not much else
south east has the coolest explorable areas, like the human buildings, swamps, tar pit, caves, etc but no one goes there and it makes me sad. Except for mixpackers. IDK why but mixpackers love meeting at south-east log

[dim radish]

foot claws they said.
Pteras feet are so damn smol, they are catching fish with their beaks, not with their spoon-forked baby wrigglers

[sinful cove]

Why do people think ptera is some fuckin' lizard eagle with talons lmao

[covert osprey]

first of all, slapping someone with a slice of ham that has claws on it, second of all, pteras mess with carnos/stegos pretty frequently, and having to "flap a few meters and land on another tree" costs stamina and puts the ptera in danger, as landing on a tree can be difficult

[slim dragon]

I'm pretty sure the other animal would spend more stamina making the ptera fall that it would cost for the ptera to fly to another tree

And nothing forces them to land on trees either, safe spots for pteras are far from being rare

[covert osprey]

well, think of it like this. a ptera really only lands to regain stamina anyway, so you likely have the stamina advantage from the get go

[slim dragon]

So what's the point ?

[covert osprey]

i'm wondering how often you play ptera, trees are by far the most common safe spot

raptors can usually get to most rocks

[slim dragon]

But raptors can't shake trees

[covert osprey]

?? you shake a tree that has a low stam ptera, they have to takeoff, leaving them with no stamina to gain lift. they now have one chance to land on a nearby tree, and if they mess up they risk dying from fall damage + being killed

[covert osprey]

i don't see how a raptor couldn't shake a palm tree at least, it wouldn't be graceful, but still

[slim dragon]

I don't see how it could

They can't even grab it

[covert osprey]

slamming into a tree repeatedly at select intervals

maybe it's a bit extreme but raptors aren't the smallest bunch

[slim dragon]

I don't think that would do much
Especially since ptera will be able to cling to surfaces

[covert osprey]

clinging probably will cost stamina, maybe even actively

i don't think you understand how important using up stamina is for a ptera, it's your lifeline

[slim dragon]

I do since I main ptera

[covert osprey]

then it would press me as to why you would say things like "i don't see how forcing a ptera to move after landing would be effective"

but also im not so attached to the foot thing either

[slim dragon]

I don't see how shaking trees would affect any of that, norwhy would you do it anyway

[covert osprey]

i've seen many a carnivores/herbivores hopelessly circling my tree hoping i wouldn't stick the landing because i've been pestering them for the past 20 minutes

[slim dragon]

Maybe that's the point ?

[sinful cove]

A utah shouldnt have a mechanic to smash into a tree to knock things down, the fuck?

It isnt build for that

It would be damaging itself for a snack equivalent to a mcdouble

[covert osprey]

it's also not built for catching a flying spear in mid air... but here we are

[sinful cove]

So your solution is to make it worse?

[covert osprey]

a wild jump, definitely not my intention at all, that's disingenous

[sinful cove]

Hey utah can do this stupid thing so we should give it another stupid thing to do as well

Instead of fixing the first thing to be more logical

[covert osprey]

what are you talking about

[sinful cove]

Like making utah take damage from getting smacked by a flying ptera instead of knocking it down with 0 repercussion like it doesnt have a dagger on its face

[covert osprey]

the utah part really was the hypothetical part anyway, i've admitted it's more of an extreme example

[sinful cove]

Instead of also making utah bodyslam trees

[lament cloak]

ah yes, foot claws. because you definitly want to hit something with these rather than your long spear

[sleek iron]

Looks like a flip flop

[hallow spire]

[fallen chasm]

I was literally just about to make a post about the Ptera's monkey-like feet. I understand that Pteras didn't have eagle-like talons, nor did they use their feet for catching fish or picking up prey, but there is just something off with these feet that bothers me from a design standpoint. I prefer the elongated legs and separated toes of the concept art.

[slim dragon]

The only difference is that it's spreading its toes on this image

[fallen chasm]

That in a way is my point of direction. They should open up at times. Perhaps while attacking, initial take-off, skimming water for fish, etc. Something about these padded monkey-feet just really bothers me.

[dusty fable]

@crystal stream that's kinda carnos playstyle as a hit and runner, that was just unintentional, but say you just charged a dryo in the middle of a stego heard you wouldn't want to have to go back in, pick it up and then run off,

[crystal stream]

or u can just run to a forest and come back later when the stegos arent at the dryo body?

[dusty fable]

They are stegos...

They won't move

And carnos hunger time in super quick

Just cause you messed up doesn't mean it should be removed

[crystal stream]

it's not that I messed up

it doesn't have a purpose

and carno isn't a hit and runner

despite its description, it's literally a brawler right now

[sinful cove]

It does have a purpose though, so you can grab babies and haul ass before adults corpseguard or attack, it isnt supposed to be a brawler whether people use it like one or not

[dusty fable]

Right now sure. But in general it's a hit and runner. It's literally supposed to hunt smaller prey. It's only a brawler cause the roster is small. Carno sure as he'll won't have fun brawling an allo pack, it'd rather use its speed to dash in, hit and run off with the child and not have to risk injury as much

[left scroll]

being able to choose whether you pick up a corpse after killing it or not would be the ideal solution imo

I get being against it with carno, but I can see it being a real issue later on when larger carnivores who hunt large prey and actually fight back are added

If you run into a herd and accidentally (or who knows, on purpose) kill the baby thats small enough to fit in your mouth, with this mechanic remaining as it is you'd have to manually drop it, all while the parents are wailing on you

Carno can outrun all herbivores that are actually a threat to it, but this won't apply to all carnivores. What if a cera attacks a herd? They're not gonna be outrunning tenos, so if they nab a baby they can't get distance between them and the adults to drop it

imo just a toggle in the settings would be fine. you can turn it on or off according to what you're about to hunt

cus likewise, there are situations where you'll want it. If you're faster than the parents and specifically targeting a baby, being able to swoop in, grab it and get outta there is handy

[sinful cove]

Lmao do the people asking for friendly fire disabling even give a shit about balance or do they just want to roll over everything with their uncoordinated trashpack, gonna assume it's the latter

[golden coral]

Considering the utah pack I met earlier, I can see the desire for a mechanic like that :p

[supple basin]

Friendly fire annoys me a lot but I'm glad it is here because it does make the fight so much intense, you do not have the right to make a mistake because the people you hunt with or try to protect will suffer the consequences.

[sinful cove]

removing friendly fire really just punishes players who are attacked by packs who collectively share 3 brain cells and rewards the horribly coordinated packs that dogpile and spam attack yeah, you dont deserve to attack somebody in a group and have your mistakes brushed aside as you kill something that took longer to grow than you

[dim radish]

Herbivores accidentally killing their babies in the fight is a great tactic for any small carnivore to be honest, since all you'd have to do is bait the mother into attacking into the direction of the child.
Yeah sucks for the mother and baby, but it's a hunting mechanic and no damage amongst group members makes no sense

[normal granite]

Maybe reduced damage between pack/herd members

I think herbivores need a bit more of an edge. They are quite disadvantaged compared to carnivores. Maybe they should have more defence or more blunt damage (herbivores can hit, carnivores can bleed with their teeth, yes stegos can stab with their tail spikes but you get the idea haha). There is no benefit to being a herbivore unless it's prearranged with half a dozen friends. It needs to be.. not easier but more worth it being a herbivore

[slim dragon]

There is already group damage reduction

[normal granite]

Ok wasn't aware of that thanks

[hollow canyon]

How are herbivores disadvantaged? Inherently they hold the advantage now but this might change with the introduction of diets?@normal granite

[normal granite]

I just think they are underrated and it's a lot harder to be a herbivore than carnivore. When a herbivore gets attacked by a carnivore it's more than likely to lose and not just coz there might be more carnivores. Idk it's just my opinion. Much more rewarding to be a carnivore I think

[hollow canyon]

Alright so just to clarify - being an adult herbivore is harder in that aspect that more people play carnivores therefore you are less likely to be able to group up, however reaching the point of being a fully grown adult is significantly easier on a herbivore - it can be achieved rather effortlessly. Carnivores require far more effort to get to full growth(although I wouldn't say that they are "difficult" per se either), with exception of Deinosuchus which is on the verge of being as easy to grow as all the herbivores are.

But this comes from the fact that carnivores are just considered cooler and they offer a more interesting gameplay loop(which also makes them harder to grow).

Herbivores as a full faction have 2 good playables and 2 that are arguably somewhat bad. The 2 good playables are Dryo and Tenonto with the first one being the best survivalist in the game currently and the second one being a very easily grown animal that is as(or nearly as) combat capable as Carnotaurus. Carnivores meanwhile have the most broken PvP animal which is currently Deinosuchus that also takes very little effort to grow when you figure out how to do it. It is in a way very similar to herbivores in terms of its growth as it doesn't have to interact with other players to reach full growth which isn't a luxury that Carnos and Utahs can boast about.

[normal granite]

Ok well in my experience of gameplay the herbivores have been harder to play since when I've played I've just had to hide as I could never find anymore to help me. I only survived as a carno as long as I did one round due to one other carno to only then be eaten by another. Same with deino. The only success I've had is with the Utah and that's coz everyone groups up as Utah's. Aside from the growth mechanics etc the only way you can survive is with help from others of the same kinda and then hope they are nice people

Idk, I'm just saying what I think from my nearly 30 hours of gameplay. You might not agree and if you don't then that's fine. I just don't feel like arguing about it

[hollow canyon]

Yea, that's probably why it seems different to you - carnivore gameplay gets much easier when you group up.

I play almost solely on my own and growing a herbivore is really easy that way(I'd argue that grouping up while you're young does more to disadvantage you than to help you in growing).

Meanwhile while you're a carnivore it's the opposite. You can very easily reach full growth if you have adults that are doing the bulk of the lifting and providing the kills for the pack.

If you're a herbivore the issue with grouping up is that you're still very much vulnerable even while being protected by adults, meanwhile if you do it on your own you can utilise the best way of growing that is available to a herbivore which is not interacting with any other players and just being in a desolate part of the map where you can eat and drink safely without risking bumping into another player.

Groups always attract more attention so being around fully grown herbivores actually gives away your location while you're at your weakest and can't defend yourself.

[normal granite]

Well tbh it's a simulation game which means that it should be more beneficial to be in a group whether you are herbivore or carnivore since that's what it is like in the wild

[hollow canyon]

That depends, multiple animals don't group up in the wild and remain on their own.

Think tigers or adult male elephants

[normal granite]

It's one of those things which will be to hard to solve and even if the devs could come up with a solution then it would still end up being unfair to someone. You raise good points but I still think it's a bit one sided and it's also 2.40am and I'm tied so thank you for the discussion and have a good night 😁

[hollow canyon]

Yea, I understand why you think it's one sided - as good as e.g. Tenonto is, there isn't much you can do as one when you're solo against 3 Carnos or an entire Utah pack.

[normal granite]

Exactly my point. No one wants to be herbivore coz they don't want to be alone. Herbivores used to travel together and yes where there are more bodies there is more food for carnivores but there's not much evidence that supports carnivores hunting together other than I think raptors but there's lots of evidence to support herbivores of multiple species traveling, living and breeding together in large groups. That's the kinda thing I would like to see. How they would implement it I have zero idea other than not allowing certain species to communicate etc but then that's unfair to those but yea..... Same problem haha

[hollow canyon]

Oh, you're speaking about dinosaurs specifically. Yea the evidence on it is rather flimsy, we know that some species lived and travelled together but not if they actually hunted together.

[normal granite]

Well both kinda. This is a simulation game after all. I just don't think that if I want to be a stego that I should be alone forever and that there should be some benefits from forming a herd etc

[hollow canyon]

There are, the issue is that you first need to find enough Stegos to actually form that herd and that might be an issue at times since carnivores are just more popular. When you're a fully grown Stego you're much better off being in a herd than solo atm. Matter of fact I'd argue that playing Stego solo is a pretty bad idea, it's just that when you're small I wouldn't advise grouping up as a herbivore. I find small Stegos almost constantly because they call out to find each other or while talking to one another. I typically don't kill them unless I'm starving because they are kind of fodder at that stage and don't provide any challenge but the point is that them talking is most of the time their demise.

[dusky surge]

dryo isnt weak, it's just boring

[slim dragon]

Yes, dryo doesn't need any more combat abilities
It's currently both faster and more agile than utah, it shouldn't be able to fight with them
Yet it already can

[dusky surge]

they shouldn't buff dryo at all unless they plan on weakening its mobility

[lament cloak]

dryo is not weak at all, its super overpowered. not all creatures are meant to fight, some (like dryo) are supposed to run

[tulip sparrow]

Overpowered?

[dusky surge]

yes

[tulip sparrow]

Just, running fast is overpowered?

[dusky surge]

yep

[tulip sparrow]

I’m talking combat wise

[dusky surge]

dryo isnt designed to be combat lmao

that's the point

[lament cloak]

not everything is supposed to fight, and actually you can harass juvis who underestimate you quite well

[tulip sparrow]

Still, it’s boring to just run around and not fight back. Fighting is what causes this game to be fun

[dusky surge]

Eh, I just think it's because you have nothing to do BUT run

No burrowing, no really cool special abilities

I don't want combat dryos

But I don't like how basic af dryo is

[tulip sparrow]

Not talking about making dryo a combat machine, but a little more offence so it can defend itself if caught unaware

[lament cloak]

well then play something else, your not going to like every single dinosaur. I find dryo very fun, to harass juvis and juke the absolute shit out of utahs and carnos

[tulip sparrow]

Every dinosaur must be fun and entertaining in some way

running around isn’t fun

Whatever, i often play dryo and talking based on my experience

[lament cloak]

yeah, I find dryo fun and entertaining. if you don't like dryos playstyle, then don't play it. not everything is for you

[tulip sparrow]

You’re literally not listening to me

Ok since you just want to get to a point on how idk, a frog is supposed to just jump around is fun and entertaining gameplay and you think that nothing should be added to make a frog able to defend itself rather than just jumping around

End here, have your opinions

[lament cloak]

[golden coral]

@tulip sparrowDryo is pretty combat capable as it stands, way more than it should be

[hollow canyon]

@tulip sparrowDryo's clearly not your cup of tea, this animal is way too combat capable if anything. Currently it deals over half the damage of a Utah that takes significantly more time and effort to grow. Dryo is not only unkillable unless it does something really stupid currently but it also deals a decent amount of damage for no good reason. The last thing this game needs is any buffs to Dryo.

[tulip sparrow]

it’s my main

Over half damage?

[hollow canyon]

Well, then you might want to think about changing your mains because this animal shouldn't be dealing as much damage as it does and you clearly want to play something more combat oriented.

75N compared to 130N

[tulip sparrow]

How about weight?

[hollow canyon]

120kg to 500kg

[tulip sparrow]

Dryo weighs less than utah

[hollow canyon]

Yeah and still deals more than half the damage of a Utah

[tulip sparrow]

So, it deals less damage

[slim dragon]

Weight and damage are unrelated in evrima

[hollow canyon]

Yes, it deals less damage but not significantly less despite being 1/5th of Utah's size

Weight doesn't have any effect on damage in this game

[tulip sparrow]

Oh,

[slim dragon]

This should be a header that appears every time you launch the game

[hollow canyon]

You just play a 120kg rat that does 75 damage with each peck while a half a tonne predator deals 130

[stark knoll]

weight is also unrelated to health

[hollow canyon]

Yea it's also unrelated to health

[tulip sparrow]

Then what’s dryos health

[stark knoll]

fact of the matter is dryo is a bit op

[tulip sparrow]

And utah’s

[stark knoll]

especially after the speed buff

[hollow canyon]

It's just a stat that determines the food yield and interactions between certain abilities

Utah has 1k health. I don't know the specifics of Dryo's health

[stark knoll]

i think dryo is like... 350?

utah has too much health imo

[tulip sparrow]

Then dryo is weak

[hollow canyon]

It's not

[tulip sparrow]

It dies in 2 bites

3

[hollow canyon]

It shouldn't be getting hit in the first place

if you get hit as a Dryo you've already missplayed

[tulip sparrow]

Not being hit is impossible while fighting

[stark knoll]

its fast enough to dodge anything, and thats not including the actual dodge

[hollow canyon]

It is absolutely possible with a Dryo

there's a video that was shared here on discord of someone 1v1ing and killing a Utah with a Dryo

[lament cloak]

Yeah, dryo should be able to tank 5 bites or so. not like utah is 3 times as big or anything

[hollow canyon]

They didn't get hit throughout most of that fight

[tulip sparrow]

How many bites can utah take

From dryo

[hollow canyon]

Depends on where you hit it

[tulip sparrow]

Just base bite

[hollow canyon]

12 bites iirc was enough to take out a Utah

[lament cloak]

idk, but does this head look likes its meant for fighting?

[tulip sparrow]

Lol maybe

Just self defense

[lament cloak]

a peck from that should be a mild inconvenience, not the slaughter that it gives now

[slim dragon]

I wonder how much health are humans going to have in the game
It would help for balancing things out
Around 200 I guess ?

[hollow canyon]

https://youtu.be/vidrNp0m6WM?t=37

[lament cloak]

did that dryo just tank a bite from that deino?

[hollow canyon]

Yes it did

[lament cloak]

ik it was a tail hit but sheesh

[tulip sparrow]

That deino sucks

[golden coral]

@tulip sparrowYou do realize dryo is one of the smallest, and weakest herbis we got. You're not meant to fight at all, you can dodge and run and all that, precisely because that's what you do as dryo. If you want to fight, tenonto or stego would be your choice. It's a survival game, your goal is to survive, and as long as you're doing that, you're doing fine. If you're not happy with being the prey that runs, then there are alternatives as stated.

[hollow canyon]

Deino does play it rather badly but the lack of collision is also messing with it. Not to mention Deino is just about the best animal for dealing with Dryo. You can kill young Carnos and Utahs with an adult Dryo with ease, without them being able to fight back or run away.

Meanwhile you are completely untouchable to their adult counterparts as long as you play your cards correctly

[golden coral]

Dryo currently has at least 50 more damage than it could possibly need. You could still nibble juvies to death, without being able to actually put up a fight vs a utah, much less something bigger. You also grow in 30 min, and can literally afk without even needing water before grown. (unless that was changed recently?)

[hollow canyon]

You have greater agility than a Utahraptor while being only slower than a Carno

[tulip sparrow]

Yeah about carno

[hollow canyon]

a group of Dryos could take out a Stego in the current game, it would just take some time

[tulip sparrow]

Carno just eats dryo

[lament cloak]

[hollow canyon]

I have no idea how you can get hit by a Carno as a Dryo it should never land a single hit on you

it turns like a truck while Dryo is the most agile animal in the game

[lament cloak]

if you get hit by a carno as a dryo you did something wrong, its completely on you

[tulip sparrow]

Ok yeah i’m wrong whatever have your reddit gold i’m deleting the suggestion

[hollow canyon]

I've ran in circles around adult Carnos, running into a pack of them killing some juvies and then running away while screeching at them and they could just watch me do that

A better question is how much damage should animals that are bigger and more powerful than Dryo do, since the little squeak does 75N? What about Herrera? What about the likes of Rugops, Mono, Galli? Should these animals for some reason outdamage Utah just so that they deal sensibly more damage than Dryo or should they all be pushed between Utah and Dryo damage-wise somehow?

[golden coral]

@tulip sparrowWhile I can get that some comments can be a bit .. harsh, you might need to familiarize yourself a little more with how the mechanics work in Evrima, such as the earlier mentioned about weight and all that (I know it's hard, we could do with proper information ingame..) as well as simply practice a bit more. I don't know how much experience/playtime you have, but most of the people here tends to have played quite a bit and tested most of the roster in matchups at that, so they got plenty of experience, both combat and survival.

And your response of "that deino sucks" kind of just shows that you're not taking all factors into account, the point in the vid wasn't that the deino was good or bad, but that juvie dryo could inflict surprising amount of damage + take surprising amount of damage.

[hollow canyon]

Also - lack of collision works against Deinosuchus there as the Dryo could walk up to Deino's neck and head area which makes it harder for Deino to hit it(shouldn't be that much of an issue when we get proper collisions).

[wispy valley]

What do you guys think of the Deino drowning Stegos in water idea

[dense thunder]

Deino ist op enough right now
Even ppl say Stego is OP
Deino can use a double bite and literally facetank a Stego

also even real life Crocodiles have a lot of problems with Animals not even half theyr weight

[dense thunder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEG0OnF2PCY
Crocos arent that powerfull how somehow everyone thinks

[normal granite]

So anyhow, my original point that (whether they are op or fast or whatever) herbivores aren't that fun to play due to not having more defence or attack or speed or whatever and not many people playing them for that reason and so herbivores are left alone while there are almost always more that 2 carnivores together. Herbivores need something to make them better and more fun to play so that when people play herbivores they have a chance to actually survive in this survival game

Small extra point on the side. My friend who introduced me to this game doesn't enjoy playing anymore (after 10-15 hours of gameplay together) coz he likes herbivores better, particularly the stego, but he can never make it to full adult coz it's all about hiding until you're an adult then avoiding groups of carnivores with more than one half grown carnotour coz you're slower and weaker and have very specific attacks where you just stay near the head to avoid being hurt. He doesn't want to play anymore coz he doesn't enjoy not surviving

[sinful cove]

Herbivores should typically have shorter growth times than their predators and have an easier time in the fight/chase than their predators. But then people whine that the faction taking up maybe 20% (generous estimate) of the server can fight back

It should be harder to hunt than to be hunted

[supple basin]

Well too bad because the isle is a game where you die a lot and some times (many times for some people) in a frustrating way. Surviving in this game takes a while to enjoy. Herbivores in this game have all an advantage compare to some carnivore depending the tier but not left with nothing to defend or protect themselves. Stego juv can wreck any other juv quite easily. People find it more enjoyable to play carnivore in general and you'll have to roll with that. So yes hidding as fresh spawn is kind of a big deal. Avoiding danger is too for every dino that can't face it . Rn herbivores can be quite boring because you have to avoid being killed in front of a population of carnivore easily superior to 50%. If you wanna make it more stressfull you can go on spots where you will find people. Once you are adult thought, you are far from being just a stupid steak if you play right. You cannot outrun carnos and utahs as tenon or stego but you can defend (the fact that overpacking is a thing and mixpacking is a human problem, not a game balancing problem) A group of utahs and carno think twice before attaquing a couple of stegos and a pack of tenontos.

The stress to be killed for me is already a fun experience but I can hear that it is not the same for every one

[sinful cove]

Utah can solo stego with bites only due to stego’s easily jukable attack or force the stego to stuff its face in a rock

[thorn spire]

Stego literally destroys everything but a best of deinos, and you're saying people complain about herbivores being able to fight back? Sounds to me like herbivore players want to be far stronger than the predators and hate the fact the predators are capable of taking them down.

They are harder to hunt, utah vs tenonto, herbi advantage.

Carno vs tenonto a balanced fight where a smaller herbivore can easily clap the carnivore.

Stego, dont even get me started.

If you're friend only played for a few hours, then obviously he won't be good at surviving against people who played for hundreds or thousands of hours.

A solo utah who's godlike can take a stego or deino despite being oneshot, that's not "I need more power and speed" that's "perhaps i need more skill"

If you're friend is struggling why not help him reach full adult?

[sinful cove]

Lmfao no its to counter the fact that the vast majority of herbis are slower than their predators while also being outnumbered

They should have the advantage

[golden coral]

The prey should be stronger than the predators though? Especially if the prey of a kind that can't exactly disengage from a hunt?

Stego is also pretty damn crap, tenonto I will grant you is solid, as is dryo

[thorn spire]

They also out power thier predators, literally only 1 herbivore is slow ingame, and its oneshots.

[golden coral]

I can't really count hypsi cause well, sandbox.. :p

[sinful cove]

If you control the confrontation you shouldnt also have an easy or equal time in the melee

Tenon is also slower than its preds while being about 50/50 with carno in combat and its like the most balanced one

Stego's attack may be strong but it is incredibly easy to juke and one utah can solo it due to that

[thorn spire]

Tenonto is fast though and has fast attacks. That's what I meant, most herbivores are slow travel wise, that's just how they are.

If you miss your tail spike as many times as it takes a utah to bite u to death then you probably deserved to get killed by it.

[golden coral]

To be fair Mira, tenonto is pretty lethal, it's issue is mostly the whole carni outnumber :p

Stego on the other hand..

[sinful cove]

You can aim right at it and it has the speed and agility kit to juke

[golden coral]

People need to learn that oneshotting is not all that if you can't land a hit very well in the first place

[sinful cove]

Tenonto is like the best herbi lol

I hope more herbis get its treatment in the future

Tenon is more viable than stego

[novel tulip]

I always feel bad killing tenos and herbivores because theres so few to begin with

[thorn spire]

Bait the utah in and dont fall for its jukes, that's how combat works.

I hope pachy, kentro and magy will be great perosnally.