balance-feedback-discussion

[alpine plover]

Just another day in hell

[versed rune]

i swear debating people in here is like talking to a brick wall sometimes lmfao

[dim crown]

Lmao

Its not fighting, its discussion.

I wont call ppl any bad names here, respect is essential.

[alpine plover]

Look man I want Deino to be good too
But not straight up busted in any given circumstance

[dim crown]

Its not believe me

[frank owl]

It's not busted though... You're just trying to fight a heavyweight with Logan Paul

[alpine plover]

I just think the something so powerful in water should not do so fair on land

[dim crown]

It needs that alt-bite, and its not OP has it is.

[alpine plover]

Ofc it needs the alt bite

But given it's power there simply is no consequence to using it say like the other playables

[dim crown]

Deinos die if they get off water, just be quick dehydration, big handicap, imo.

[frank owl]

You're right, it does need alt bite.

If deino is on land hunting, it's probably already burned its stamina getting there... So there would be no alt biting. Therefore, no Stam drain on alt bite

[dim crown]

How long can a Deino stand outside the water?

[grave veldt]

30 minutes before dehydration

[vagrant mural]

Enough to cross the plains from southeast to center

[alpine plover]

Besides
It launched initially with stam based alt bite
Given that it could possibly be a bug this entire time
This entire discussion could be for naught as it's later patched

[dim crown]

Stall it and its ded

Play wisely

#EvrimaNotLegacy

[frank owl]

The only thing theyre adding that I know of is vertical lunge. I've never heard of them discussing stamina for alt bite, and I don't see them making that mistake

[vagrant mural]

It can just go back into the water and reset tho

[lament cloak]

"mistake"

[alpine plover]

I mean it launched that way though

[frank owl]

And? They realized they messed up, and fixed it?

[alpine plover]

Source?

[grave veldt]

Alt bite not consuming stam just makes deino somewhat unkillable

[frank owl]

Patch notes 😒

[vagrant mural]

all alt attacks should cost stam regardless but

[dim crown]

Debatable.

[lament cloak]

how do you know it isnt a bug? like stegos 10% stamina drain per swing

[frank owl]

Just do your research if you want to know

[lament cloak]

which was patched to be the inteded 5%

[alpine plover]

Stego did have that alt attack bug

[grave veldt]

No it’s not debatable it’s literally a fact, deinos that alt bite r pretty unkillable

[alpine plover]

The same could apply to Deino

[dim crown]

The Deino and Ptera cant, bruh, stam has other uses.

[frank owl]

Because the only other Dino in their weight class is stego. They aren't meant to be able to take it down easily.

[vagrant mural]

Me when the devs said that they wanted combat to be more stam based

[dim crown]

It is

[grave veldt]

That’s the thing tho their meant to be hard but not impossible

[dim crown]

But this is not Legacy

[vagrant mural]

Also if you get an omnidirectional attack that’s more powerful than base bite it should cost stam

[frank owl]

They aren't 😒🙄

[grave veldt]

Stego is meant to be extremely hard but not impossible same should apply for deino

Their not lol they can alt bite as much as they want and because alt bite is faster then regular bite it just promotes spam

[lament cloak]

they are, have you even tried fighting an alt biting deino?

[dim crown]

I love it!!!

[vagrant mural]

You could be the best carno in the world and still get fucked by alt bite hard

[alpine plover]

Funnily enough fighting a deino is more tricky than fighting a stego
Stego, a land apex is an easier fight then a Deino

[dim crown]

Theres a lot of bad crocs out there.

[grave veldt]

^

[lament cloak]

tbf that is partly a stego problem. but the point still stands

[vagrant mural]

And even if you somehow manage to avoid the alt bite spam and wear them down, drinks have the option to say go fuck yourself and head back to the water

[dim crown]

Its kinda the same, in some ways, at least on how to react with alt-attacks.

[alpine plover]

Deino doesn't have a vulnerable head tho
And takes zero stam for it's main attacks

[grave veldt]

Except for the fact that deino can spam alt bite as it doesn’t take spam

[frank owl]

Yes. You aren't SUPPOSED to fight deino with the current line up. There are no other land apex dinos that can hunt deino.

When Rex's are here, there will be only dead land deinos

[vagrant mural]

Stego has a weakness

[grave veldt]

It also doesn’t have a 2X multiplier

[dim crown]

Wrong, its very vulnerable.

[grave veldt]

It rly isn’t

[alpine plover]

How is it vulnerable?

I'll let you explain

[frank owl]

Deino head hitbox goes literally to its back.

So.... Consider it explained

[grave veldt]

It can alt bite all the way behind it and do it as much as u want

[vagrant mural]

I swear this person has never fought a deino on land before

[dim crown]

I guess i am that nutty that goes in there

[alpine plover]

How is it vulnerable?

[grave veldt]

Y is this even a debate rn lol I’m surprised deino hasn’t already gotten stam usage for alt bite

[dim crown]

U can even stand inside it while they bite

[frank owl]

It's a head shot that covers a third of its body. That's how it's vulnerable

[vagrant mural]

That’s the fault of broken collision, and they can still hit you from inside their body

[alpine plover]

Is that it?
I thought you'd have a more solid answer

[calm ibex]

i like how deino is atm more formidable on land vs terrestrials than stego, that is some big yikes from me

[frank owl]

I thought you'd have a more solid and objective reason for wanting deino nerf than "I can't kill it with a Utah that wasn't meant to hunt deino in the FIRST place"

[lament cloak]

deino does a multitude of things better than stego.

1. more health
2. More bleed res
3. can spam its strongest attack with no consequences
4. its cooldown between its attacks are much shorter
5. doesn't have a 2x damage head shot multiplier meaning it can take even MORE damage
6. has an instakill move for anything that weighs less than 4 tons
   feel free to add anything to this list that I missed

[dim crown]

You can do it on every dino, its not a deino thing.

[alpine plover]

When did I say that?

Sc my quote

[grave veldt]

Think that’s everything

Honestly why would u pick stego when deino does what stego does but just better

[vagrant mural]

Has the option to go into a zone where it is uncontested

[frank owl]

No bro. I'm done with ya'll. This is internet at its finest right here.

[alpine plover]

In a way
Deino atm is just a better Stego with a water safe haven

[frank owl]

Learn the dinos. Learn to play

[lament cloak]

lmao, it sure is, it sure is

[dim crown]

But dies in less then 30 mins, dehydrated, if makes any mistake, or if facing some1 that plays for it.

[grave veldt]

Yes it is spamming alt bite lol

Truly a skillful match up

[lament cloak]

what mistake can it make? get caught by 3 angry stegos? that is a pretty niche mistake

[calm ibex]

what mistake? its untouchable to utahs and carnos

[vagrant mural]

It sure will stay on land for the entirety of those 30 mins and the time it takes to die from dehydration

And it sure will not kill anything in those 30 mins

No siree

Will never happen

[lament cloak]

doesn't everything die in like 30 minutes to dehydration? if it isnt that its not much longer

[grave veldt]

Actually nowadays stego dies quite a bit to deino for reasons that rly shouldn’t be happening like poor collision and weird hit boxes

Also canceling stun with alt bite shouldn’t be happening either

[vagrant mural]

Yep, and due to deino’s kit if you’re not fighting in shallows you are fucked

[alpine plover]

And what is it with the argument of thinking people are gonna dehydrate Deino's on land
It's damage and tanky health along with the alt bite can literally get anything to fuck off

It'll walk happily back to the river where no other playable can touch them

[grave veldt]

30 minutes is the dehydration time for all dinos rn

[vagrant mural]

Point is

[grave veldt]

It needs its alt bite to take stam

[vagrant mural]

Deino should not be away from deep water and taking on carno mega packs with ease single handedly

[grave veldt]

^

Actually alt bite should be slower then regular bite not faster

[lament cloak]

but that means I cant face tank 15 carnos that is too much of a nerf

[alpine plover]

Alt bite can have different functions
That's the beauty of having a separate attack
But I agree

[dim crown]

Dinner time, bite ya l8r

[grave veldt]

Specifically for deino tho I think an alt bite that’s slower then it’s regular bite would make sense

[vagrant mural]

Oh my bad, that you were in a designed state of weakness as a large number of decently sized carnivores we decided to risk it and attack you

[grave veldt]

Also I’m talking about the front alt bite the side and back alt bite timings r fine imo

[alpine plover]

Cya, glad you at least tried to form counter arguments instead of thwarting it off point and making it personal

[grave veldt]

I wonder who did that

[alpine plover]

We gotta get rid of the legacy apex mindset out of balance design

[grave veldt]

The spam attacking and face tanking stuff rly needs to go

[alpine plover]

It's just not fun or intuitive

[grave veldt]

^

[alpine plover]

Well, I for sure will be having a smirk on my face when I read the patch note under bugfixes: "Deino alt bite now takes stam"

[past wagon]

How does it not take stam?

[vagrant mural]

No idea

[alpine plover]

It launched that way, then suddenly didn't anymore with no mention that I remember

[past wagon]

huh? what are you talking about?

[alpine plover]

Deino alt bite

[past wagon]

yea, it takes stam

[alpine plover]

Doesn't take stam atm

[past wagon]

Since when deosnt it

[alpine plover]

You sure?

I haven't logged in for awhile

[past wagon]

I am litterly ingame as we speak and trying it

[alpine plover]

Gimme a sec

[grave veldt]

Can u like clip it or something

[alpine plover]

I'm gonna have to log in

[grave veldt]

Cuz if it does take stam then that that’s nice

[past wagon]

it takes stam.... jesus it's not that hard to believe

[alpine plover]

Okay

[past wagon]

it takes like 10%

[alpine plover]

Context
A person up above tried desperately to explain why Deino should not use stam for it's alt bite

And did so relentlessly with very few reasoning

[past wagon]

well no point in arguing something if you dont even know the current state of the game

[alpine plover]

My guy

It doesn't take stam

I'm doing it rn

[past wagon]

well im doing it too, and it takes stam for me

[alpine plover]

Zero stam lost

Are you an adult?

[past wagon]

nope, juvi

[grave veldt]

Interesting

[alpine plover]

That's weird

What server you on?

[modest carbon]

sure its not lunging?

[grave veldt]

Ur pressing alt+lmb right

[past wagon]

ohh wtf, haha I didnt know that was a thing. Never mind

[grave veldt]

Oh yea

[alpine plover]

We've been baited

[grave veldt]

Damn

[alpine plover]

Lmao no worries

Mistakes happen

[past wagon]

what even is that attack?

[grave veldt]

Lol well that was something

That attack is mainly for defending

If something runs at u behind u can alt attack in that direction to instantly bite behind u

This is why ppl want it to take stam

[past wagon]

but it just does dmg?

[grave veldt]

It does the same dmg

[alpine plover]

Yup

[grave veldt]

But it kind of renders any sort of attacks on deino impossible

[lament cloak]

its the same thing as the bite except you bite can use it twice as fast and it goes in the direction your camera is facing

[alpine plover]

You can kick everything's ass with that attack

And I mean everything

Even Stego's if you glitch through their collision

[lament cloak]

you can take on hordes of utahs and carnos, stegos 1 on 1 with broken hitboxes. the only thing you should fear is straying too far from the water and a couple (or more) blood thirsty stegos roll up

[alpine plover]

We unintentionally just released another alt biting deino into the wild

Good job us

[grave veldt]

Welp

[past wagon]

🙂

[alpine plover]

You know what

[lament cloak]

man...

[alpine plover]

Times like these chaos in needed to restore order

Frippe

Do me a favour

Steam roll everything you can with that Deino
Be aggressive and destroy all who challenge and who you suspect

Make it known to everyone how overtuned Deino is

Most importantly have fun lmao

[dim crown]

English is not my main language, most of the times my issue is, not being able to explain myself right, mb.

[sinful cove]

deino mains dont want to lose their ability to play brawler on land instead of being an aquatic ambusher

because everyone wants to spam bite like a braindead legacy dino instead of using special abilities

[dim crown]

If Deino just spam bites, its just creating "windows" to get attacked, if played right.

[golden coral]

Not with how fast the alt bite is, and when it does not even drain stamina, you can just keep fighting forever, while still having stamina to bail out if you need

[dim crown]

Even a carno can go trough

[vagrant mural]

Alt bite’s end lag and startup is pretty negligible

[dim crown]

Ngl it might have some tweak there, but it can still be done

As it is.

[golden coral]

Sure, if you "spam" mindlessly I suppose, but then that goes for any playable, except most of the others get punished for doing so with stamina drain

[sinful cove]

alt bite and most other attacks across the board should give diminishing returns on stamina

[dim crown]

Spam is bad chooice and lame, imo

[sinful cove]

so proper use isnt punished but spam is

[vagrant mural]

Teno tail slam diminishing returns when

[golden coral]

Deino alt bite is too good, and need either stamina drain, or lowered speed, possibly even both, so it's properly vunerable on land, even if it's not actively hunted. It should not look at a pack of utahs/carnos or a herd of tennos and go "yes, let's go up there and fight them, it'll be fun"

[dim crown]

not stam use on alt-bite plz 🙃

[sinful cove]

why

what is your solution

[dim crown]

the animation or something might be worked

[golden coral]

Yes, stam use on alt bite, it's not really a debate, you shouldn't use it as your primary attack

Which you are better off doing right now

[sinful cove]

the animation is fine, it is a good defensive ability, but it is being used to brawl

it shouldn't be slowed to be useless, it should just not be spammed

[vagrant mural]

It should be a powerful defensive tool when you’re caught out

[dim crown]

Not sayin its not fine, just that it can still be worked, we all kinda lab rats around here.

spamming it is bad

[sinful cove]

adding diminishing returns across the board is probably easier than changing animations

[dim crown]

spamming alt bites lets me go in there all day

[sinful cove]

yeah thats the problem

[dim crown]

i mean the deino spamming

[vagrant mural]

Even tho I love 2 shotting other oblivious Pteras with it make Ptera alt bite cost stam as w-

[dim crown]

creates windows to be attacked

as it is

Pteras cant have stam cost on alt-bite also

[vagrant mural]

They should

[dim crown]

they use stam for other purposes

[vagrant mural]

If a Ptera wants to stay in the ground and pick something off it should have to commit

Doesn’t even have to cost that much stam

[dim crown]

Ptera on ground is as good as ded

[vagrant mural]

Just some stam

[sinful cove]

they should totally use stam when air pecking because mixpacking pteras pecking people for their buddies is annoying af lol

[dim crown]

That is another issue Mira

Mixpacking has nothing to do with balancing dinos, imo

[sinful cove]

they dont really have any other reason to do it other than to do a little trolling

[dim crown]

wrong

[sinful cove]

on the ground i couldnt really care less, theyre already putting themselves in extra danger so that is enough cost honestly

[dim crown]

no troll

[sinful cove]

i know you dont like hearing it

but hypsi and ptera are troll dinos 90% of the time

[dim crown]

lmao

ok

[vagrant mural]

Why not let them do a little bit of trolling

Part of the charm

[dim crown]

not saying they cant

[sinful cove]

i mean yeah why not but they should consume stamina doing it aye?

[dim crown]

no

[vagrant mural]

If downwards pecking costs stam add a forward facing peck too

[sinful cove]

waving that big ass head around in flight aught to be tiring

[golden coral]

All alt attacks should take stam, a small price to pay for that turn+attack combo that is so useful, + in most cases extra damage for some reason, and yes, maybe pteras should just not have the downwards pecking, just change it to a forwards peck :p

[sinful cove]

i mean look at the way he thrusts it

he really puts UNF into it

[golden coral]

Then you can still fight other pteras and not peck things on land as much/easy

[dim crown]

Not the Air&Water based dinos Erik

Those cant use stam on those attacks

[vagrant mural]

Just make ptera’s base pack forwards with no stam, and alt bite in the sky can be to peck downwards at the cost of stam

[sinful cove]

why

why shouldnt they

[dim crown]

Stam has other uses

[vagrant mural]

Isn’t that the case for every dino

[sinful cove]

why should stego, teno, utah and carno use stamina on their attacks when they are designed to be on land, but deino can spam alt bite on land for free even though he is aquatic

deino should get a fair slice of that cake

he doesn't deserve special treatment

[vagrant mural]

Deino doesn’t even need stam to swim effectively

[sinful cove]

he just needs stam to drag people to water, and if he wastes it spamming alt bite then he deserves that loss

[dim crown]

Deino on land wastes stam in less than 10 secs, others cant.

[vagrant mural]

If it sprints yeah

[sinful cove]

and

its supposed to be shit on land

[dim crown]

he is, kinda

[sinful cove]

it's supposed to be an ambush predator not a beyblade

[golden coral]

Why not? You can choose between fight or flight, just like with any other critter?

[vagrant mural]

Making it risky to fight on land as a designated water ambusher?!?!??!?!?!?

[dim crown]

Spam is applied different on those dinos.

[sinful cove]

???

[golden coral]

Use your stam as ptera on land to peck stuff, and you can't fly away as easily, use your stam on land as deino to run, and you can't fight as much. Same as with stego or tenno, you run around, and you have much fewer attacks at your disposal.

[golden coral]

No it's not.. how would that work?

[vagrant mural]

Utah can’t run away as effectively if you keep pouncing

[golden coral]

And you'd still have normal deino bite and normal front ptera peck if you need

[sinful cove]

hell you'd still have deino alt bite as long as you didnt spam it, diminishing returns only punishes spam

[dim crown]

You just answered me there, Ptera&Deino are screwed in 5 secs , if making bad choices on land.

[golden coral]

Don't need diminishing return even, just stam drain like tenno/stego tail attacks?

[sinful cove]

they are supposed to be screwed for making bad choices on land

[dim crown]

done

[golden coral]

And that's not an issue, they're not meant to be on land. You're a deino, stay in water, you're a ptera, stay on high where you can't get gotten (lots of places to roost relatively safely)

[dim crown]

Debatable Erik

[golden coral]

But you wouldn't die in 5 sec as deino either, ptera maybe, but well.. you're a ptera.. p

[sinful cove]

most other dinos are shite in water, and even shittier if they try to fly, deino and ptera get the tradeoff and it is fair

[golden coral]

Deino would be fine, still got normal front attack, can still regen stam to use more alt bites anyway, and so on

Got great bleed resist

[dim crown]

front attack on deino is for when ur not just standing, but moving.

[vagrant mural]

Ptera still has the option to finish off weaker prey if it crashes or lands with a more powerful agtaxk

[golden coral]

Not really. You're a deino, you're.. a croc.. you sit in the water and lunge at things, that's what you do. Nothing more or less. Ptera is a living spectator cam, again, that's what you do.

[vagrant mural]

And if you choose to fight something bigger as Ptera, god help you

[dim crown]

Wrong bruh

[golden coral]

You can still use the front attack while standing so

[dim crown]

I played it differently

[golden coral]

No it's not wrong at all

Yes and you did it wrong then :p

[dim crown]

Debatable

[sinful cove]

how do you play it huh Rumo

[golden coral]

Ptera is pretty much a living spec cam, it's.. not designed for anything else. And deino is designed as a gator, play it like that, and you'll be fine

[dim crown]

All dinos i kill are looking kinda dumb at waters and rivers when they get caught on their bootys

[golden coral]

They didn't give deino high biteforce precisely because they wanted it to lunge and drown things from the shoreline. The fact that they missed that alt spam makes deino viable on land is hopefully just that, a miss.

[dim crown]

Not designed...debatable, its just not ez.

And i love it 😄

[golden coral]

It's too easy then, since you're not really supposed to play like that

So, ptera might need some work on it's flying peck, and deino alt bite needs a nerf or two so deinos don't feel comfortable fighting on land

[dim crown]

Im trying 2 make an effort and start streaming some of this.

HOPE is da word

My pc is crap

[sinful cove]

do you fly around and peck people like a crow

[dim crown]

Like a Ptera, crows stand no chance.

not peck, kill

[sinful cove]

What the fuck is that deino doing lmao

[novel tulip]

Is that a bug or something

[sinful cove]

God I hope so lol no way is that intentional

[novel tulip]

chomchomchomchomcom

[dusky surge]

finally, a balanced attack rate for the deino

now alt-bite is slower

everyone is happy

[sinful cove]

Deino: shoes in the dryer noises

[dim crown]

Is this Troo'don fuck with me?!? Really?!?

[dusky surge]

what

[dim crown]

Lame joke, just related with recent discussions of deino alt-bite balance changes.

[hallow spire]

@alpine plover are u saying getting bucked off as a Utah shouldn’t be that big of a consequence???

[golden coral]

@alpine ploverI would agree the dismount needs a bit of work to let you either dismount normally but within tail base range, or use a kick off costing a bit of stamina to end up in tail tip range (maybe cost the same as using pounce in the first place). But the stamina cost for staying on/vs bucking is fine. You should have to hunt over a good 10-40 min (depending on the prey in question), with multiple pounces plus baiting and all that before the prey is weakened enough to finish off with full pounces.

[hallow spire]

Oh ok he worded it kinda wrong and said bucked off instead of dismount making me think he was saying getting bucked off was bad lol nvm then @alpine plover but the time for staying onto something while pounced is fine since u have to rely on other utahs to bring down big things, solo utah should go for smaller things

[alpine plover]

Well yeah packs should be able to kill bigger stuff, I think the pounce itself is fine it’s just the stamina being used while pouncing while your already pounced on a creature and the dismounting

[golden coral]

If you could stay on for longer, you'd need less of a pack/pounces, not sure that's good, not as if utahs need that many as it stands if it wasn't for the dismount issue from what I know

[teal pecan]

wait so do you think utah shouldn't lose stamina while pouncing?

[alpine plover]

I mean it should lose stamina when pouncing but not when it’s holding on. Or at least slow down how much it takes since it seems like you run out of stamina fast when mounted

[teal pecan]

so you mean it should be able to hold on when not doing dmg, and for that it shouldn't lose stam, but when it does dmg it should lose stam?

[alpine plover]

I mean it always does damage when on because it’s pouncing. It just seems annoying how I had to aim my pounce and get it right but now I need to use more stamina just to continue using it how it should.

Your supposed to be rewarded by stacking a bunch of bleed when pouncing but you also lose stamina while mounted so it’s not really as helpful that you can’t safely get off without being bitten before you can run away again when your losing all your stamina

Stamina should be put into the actual jump and pounce not when I’m mounted on a creature

[teal pecan]

well then that doesn't make sense, while I agree dismounting needs some changes cuz it takes too long in my opinion doing that would be just broken, same with bucking, you should be punished if someone succesfully manages to do that they should be rewared, and you can always take off before someone bucks cuz bucking takes some time

otherwise bucking wouldn't give you anything, utah would still have a lot of stam and could just escape, which doesn't help you in further fight

[teal pecan]

that makes no sense, if you jump on a bull and try to hold on it's not like only jumping makes you tired

[calm ibex]

if i'm not mistaken whole point of pounce as bleed based attack is to kill your opponent with bleed, that means applying more bleed in small to medium doses and make sure it wont drop off, not just pounce and drain like 90% of your stam and expect to be fine

[alpine plover]

Pounce just drains loads of stamina when your mounted and even if I jump off before being bucked I have little to no stamina to run away from my attacker

[teal pecan]

then improve your stamina management

[alpine plover]

Fair enough

But I do think the amount of stamina being used while mounted should be less

[teal pecan]

I think the only thing we need is faster dismounting, that will actually reward you for a good pounce, option to jump off for exchange for stamina would be good too, and would reward players with very good stamina management

[alpine plover]

It should be the prey or attackers fault for letting themselves get pounced, but now I have to use more stamina just to punish them

Idk just my experience

[golden coral]

Thats why you have a whole pack, and take turns.

[alpine plover]

Fair enough, yeah I guess the dismounting is the only thing that needs a change

[golden coral]

I think you should look at it as a bunch of rounds. The longer the fight goes on and the more "rounds" of pouncing you and the pack get in, the worse it gets for the prey. Four of you pouncing a stego once, isn't going to do that much, and maybe the second group (max pack is 8 so you'd have two sets), isn't going to do much more. But for every round you do that, it'll do a little more, and wear the stego out cause it'll have to try and get you off, using stamina for that + any attacks it might try. By the third and fourth round, that stego will be feeling the effects at the very least.

Same would apply to a tenno, or possibly carno (though they are less defensively oriented than the other two). But with less utahs needed for the taking turns, with tenno having only two slots, I think, you can do the rounds with 4+ of you.

So it's mostly the dismount issue that currently makes pounce not very useful

[unborn iris]

Too many utahs think pounce is their only attack. Pounce isn't a win button, it's like any other tool for any dino. Not many dinos just get a free attack without fear of retaliation. You need to understand it's limitations and use it in the correct circumstances.

Would be interesting to see an option to spend more stamina for a clean dismount, or maybe jump off the prey. Would weaken the pounce because you need stamina to use it and leave you with less stamina. But maybe hard to implement.

[sinful cove]

Tsk tsk another feedback from a utah player who thinks pounce should be low risk high reward and they shouldn’t be punished ever for letting themselves be knocked off

[dusky surge]

to be fair

the fact that the pounce doesnt work on people in puddle-deep water and you are entirely immobile while willingly dismounting is fucked

[sinful cove]

Voluntary dismounts should be fixed so people can kick off if they have the stam, but the people who let themselves get bucked or dont manage their stam and then cry about it deserve the flattening

[dusky surge]

thats entirely fair

[cedar shore]

@frank owl Pesky is just suggesting to nerf the alt bite on the deinosuchus so its not super spammable. Right now deinos are reaally powerfull on land and getting behind it to get a quick bite is nearly impossible. Its pretty OP for an 8 ton gator to be this manueverable with its attacks on land.

[frank owl]

Bro. I know what he meant. That discussion is dead.

My point remains, deino isn't meant to be hunted by raptors, even on land.

[cedar shore]

That is such a stupid argument. Just because its bigger doesnt mean that it should be unkillable for smaller dinos. Realistic or not

[frank owl]

So saying they're too op now is the dumbest argument, because they're meant to be op against the current lineup.

[cedar shore]

Nothing is meant to be Op

if something is OP its badly balanced and should possibly be changed

its a game after all

[frank owl]

There are going to be bigger things coming that will hunt deinos. Stay in your weight class. Stay in your lane. stay alive.

This isn't class VS class in an mmorpg. Wake up

[slim dragon]

Out of the balance argument
Deinos use alt-bite to bite in front of them
It should be a tool for turning around. If it's better than the regular bite to just bite forward, then it's a bad attack design and should be changed

Nerfing deino's alt-bite is the best way to alleviate that

[frank owl]

Then make your own game and stop whining

[cedar shore]

Alt bite needs to drain stam thats allUt

what?

[frank owl]

Or go back to legacy.

I don't think it matters which you choose honestly, if you're so unhappy with the state of the game

[cedar shore]

Il trying to give proper feedback to help balance the game out and make it more fun for everyone

Im not sure where you got me beeing unhappy with evrima from

[frank owl]

It's not fun for you because you're trying to kill something that's out of your weight class. WAKE. UP.

[cedar shore]

So? Low tier dinos would be boorig and unviable to play if they cant kill bigger dinos because «realism». One of the most fun fights in this game is taking on larger prey in a pack or defending from one. Why should the developers take away that possibility?

[frank owl]

Next you'll complain the rex is too op when you can't pounce on it because it's alt bite is too bite whatever is pounced onto it.

Give me a break. Go play a game you can actually keep up with, like Lego star wars.

Deino will be balanced by mid tier pack hunters and apex predators. You people are just impatient and whiny. Go chill in a corner and be patient while the devs finish the game and stop pinging me to necro dead discussions

[slim dragon]

Why did I even join this convo

[frank owl]

I'm done here. You people don't intend to listen and learn and play the way the devs intend the game to be played.

[slim dragon]

You didn't say anything when I pointed at the fact Alt-bite is supposed to be used for turning around, yet deinos use it for biting forward

Are you sure this is how the devs intend the game to be played ?

[sinful cove]

Apparently big brain Klaxxon doesn't understand the purpose of a balance feedback channel so players can help balance the game

Deino spinning around like a beyblade is bad design

[frank owl]

Alt bite is meant to add maneuverability to land fights since deino can't sprint to chase, or run away.

Your incorrect assumption of what the ability is meant to be utilized for is not my fault.

[slim dragon]

So what's the point of having a regular bite if alt-bite is just meant to be better in every way ?

[sinful cove]

Land animals use stam for their special attacks, deino can spam his on land despite being aquatic, this obviously a problem

[frank owl]

Regular bite is for forward attacks in water, and to be a fast follow up after lunge, since the activation time of normal left click is faster... You'd know this if you knew how to play deino... But you don't. You THINK you do, but you don't.

[frank owl]

That's your opinion. But we're discussing facts here. Thanks bud

Like I said. I'm done with ya'll. Bye. 🙄😒

[cedar shore]

Lmao, someone doesnt know how to actuslly have a debate

[sinful cove]

Lmfao

I wonder what this guy mains

Can't possibly be deino

[cedar shore]

nahh prob dryo

Its so dumb lmao utah alt bite drains it stam but not croc

the realism argument is so dumb too as a croc would no way have the stam to throw itself around like that forever

[sinful cove]

Takes stam for a 500kg animal to alt bite and for stego to swing just its tail but not for an 8ton deino to swing its entire body and this guy thinks that's peak game design

[cedar shore]

she is just like one of thoose idiots in an argument that is clueless when they have lost hahahah

How about give actual arguments smh

[alpine plover]

Let me grab a beverage

This ought to be good

[frank owl]

I don't argue with idiots

[sinful cove]

Lmfao

[frank owl]

I'll let the devs handle it

[alpine plover]

Google “dunning kruger effect “

[robust quiver]

xD

[slim dragon]

I just did

[cedar shore]

I like how you said regular bite is supposed to be used in the water as a followup as if you were a good deino player. Alt bite is faster than a regular attack and much much better

I got like 300 hours on evrima. I think i know its balance pretty well 😂

[hollow canyon]

Utahs aren't meant to be hunting Deinosuchus(nor Carnotaurus for that matter). Deino is a bit too good and should have the attack rate of its alt bite and normal bite reversed. It would make it somewhat more vulnerable to larger packs of smaller animals and make it not dumpster Stego - it's a change that kills two birds with one stone.

[cedar shore]

i guess that could help yeah but i do feel like smaller dinos should be able to hunt bigger prey if they are good or outnumbered

[hollow canyon]

E.g. if there's a longer cooldown between your alt bites a Utah or Carno could bait a Deino into biting allowing their companion to land a bite without getting hit - if they mess up they will have lost a tonne of health so it's not like it would make Deino atrocious against either of the two.

[slim dragon]

That could work

[cedar shore]

Alt bite needs to drain stam on deino though realism or not

[hollow canyon]

I'd possibly add a stamina drain maybe a patch after the change to attack rates. Changing the attack rates might be enough to put Deino in its place.

[slim dragon]

Though I think if it gets nerfed, deino's alt-bite should also deal a little more damage than the regular bite, so it functions better as a punishing tool

[cedar shore]

you are better off swapping regular bite in alt bite in the keybinds rn hahahah

[alpine plover]

Let's be real
You have valid concepts but terrible articulation of arguments
A lone Utah or Carno will stay in it's weight class as you said
But when in packs, having enough coordination and numbers to spare. There should be some measure of interaction otherwise we get a dino that has boring interactions, or imbalanced interactions.

[cedar shore]

yeah practicly all alt bites do more dmg but not for deino apparently

[slim dragon]

It looks like it's just unfinished actually

[hollow canyon]

Not every dinosaur should be capable of hunting every other animal.

[slim dragon]

No stam drain, no additionnal damage, no endlag

[hollow canyon]

Utah should be hunting mid tiers in a pack, that's fine. But going after pseudoapexes or apexes is not something it should do.

[alpine plover]

Agreed

[lament cloak]

actually, utahs should be one of those few animals that are a threat to nearly everything on the roster

if in a coordinated pack

[cedar shore]

suure, but with only like 6 dinos usually played in the rooster rn it wouldnt be fun if it was inbalanced and hard to fight

[slim dragon]

Yeah Utahs aren't really made for hunting deinos, but a pack of carnos should at least pose a serious threat to a land deino

[alpine plover]

But harassment and defending it's food is what it should still be able to do

[hollow canyon]

No they shouldn't they are absurdly easy to grow for the carnivore standards and it's very easy to get a large pack of them going.

And yea the game atm is not fun due to a very limited roster

[alpine plover]

If it has enough numbers and coordination, they shouldn't roll over at all times without any exception

[lament cloak]

not a large pack of skilled players, I said threat, not an insane threat

[cedar shore]

crocs in real life get easilly harrased and chased off by smaller annimals due to how inmanuaverable they are. Idk why you dont want this to apply to a game.

[frank owl]

I disagree with what ya'll are saying. I doubt the devs will make any changes but if they do, that's on them and I'll still play, but I'm not going to argue with people that just have a different opinion that can't be swayed

Now stop pinging me because I don't want to be apart of an unintelligent discussion that won't change anything

[hollow canyon]

How much smaller animals are you talking about? I've seen big cats hunt crocs but nothing aside from that seems to be very successful at hunting crocodiles.

[slim dragon]

No one pinged you...

[lament cloak]

jeez, no need to start calling people rule comments, its a discussion.

[cedar shore]

I mean, my opinion isnt set in stone but if you disagree how about give some actual ARGUMENTS??

[alpine plover]

I don't think anyone here wants Deino's to be dropping like flies
Just to be discouraged and harassed to going back in the water if they decide to get too cocky on land which isn't their forte

[hollow canyon]

I haven't read what Klaxon said so far but... have you actually implied that using normal bite on Deino is a good idea in the water?

[frank owl]

<@&505047238674874368> I've asked not to be pinged multiple times, nicely.

[cedar shore]

Okay karen

[lament cloak]

you called us uninllegent, and idiots. I dont think that is nicely

[hollow canyon]

I personally wouldn't mind if they were much more huntable.

[final relic]

This is not the proper use for this tag. You can block people.

[hollow canyon]

The issue with the animal seems to me that it's kind of too safe.

It's because of the roster for the most part but to a certain extent

[frank owl]

Thanks for reminding me.

[cedar shore]

if a croc were to throw itself around like that it would get dazed very fast

[hollow canyon]

I think I'd prefer if Deinosuchus had to spend more time on land rather than be able to get back into the water whenever things aren't going its way.

[slim dragon]

But would a gator ?

[cedar shore]

I mean they are cold blooded right?

[slim dragon]

Sorry for the bad joke I'm just trying to get my sanity back

[hollow canyon]

E.g. no healing for Deino if it doesn't rest was one suggestion I've made during the beta to update 3.

[cedar shore]

yeah im kinda used to trying to argue with someone that cant argue so its whatever

[slim dragon]

This seems a little harsh tho

[alpine plover]

Yeah, if I'm in a pack of two or three, I'm not gonna run into the jaws of a Deino
But circumstances like numbers can change that dynamic. With enough collaboration, it's jarring to still be unable to challenge one because of one simple attack that has no repercussions.

[hollow canyon]

It's not harsh at all - the animal has an amazing healing rate, it has a really long hunger drain and it handles bleed like a champ

[cedar shore]

Yeah dino stronk

[hollow canyon]

This would make it huntable for things as it would have to get back on land to actually heal

[cedar shore]

deino-

[slim dragon]

Well that's true
But being forced to sit to heal any amount of health is quite boring

[alpine plover]

Deino's kind of just swim and rest most often though

[cedar shore]

yeah scars take up that role anyways no need to reduce healing rate

[alpine plover]

So it wouldn't be a gigantic shift in how it's played right now

[hollow canyon]

Good, if they rest then they're doing it right, they shouldn't get to stay hidden in the water while healing

[slim dragon]

Also, I once managed to kill a deino who was hiding in a river once as a pack of Utahs (before update 3) so I'd say it's fine that deino can hide and heal in water

[hollow canyon]

Oh, trust me - I had some instances where a Deino that I was hunting just ran into water and hid there until I went away or it bled out.

[slim dragon]

It's funny how the best way to kill a deino is to bleed it out tho ^^

[hollow canyon]

I've also killed(I think 2?) Deino that were staying in the water but it's way too difficult even when you outplay it, it still gets to just get out and sit in the water untouchable to anything and everything.

[slim dragon]

Well it can't run away, so it's fair that it can hide in water

[hollow canyon]

it is, but it shouldn't be healing it up when it does

[alpine plover]

Though it's kind of

Invincible in water

And can heal there

[hollow canyon]

It should have to get back on land to heal by basking in the sun

Which - that goes for the whole realism argument - is something that a crocodilian would have to do in general to keep itself active.

Making it regenerate stamina that way seems way too harsh but health? Yea I don't see a reason why Deino shouldn't have to heal up on land.

[alpine plover]

It's game play is relatively boring atm too

[hollow canyon]

I actually had a tonne of fun playing Deino

[alpine plover]

So players being cautious and taking day/nights into account would add pressure

[vagrant mural]

Deino is actually really fun

Imo

[hollow canyon]

Gave me some of the highest K/Ds I've had in Evrima

[alpine plover]

In turn more thinking into the approaches of engagements

[cedar shore]

okay im back now

[slim dragon]

Welcome back to the realm of the talkative

[cedar shore]

thank you kind sir

apparently this sever has a blacklisted word list, used a bad word in a context not pointed towards anyone lol

[sinful cove]

Ive been his with the bot's nono word mute twice too

[soft girder]

You used it against Nacen

[cedar shore]

no??

I mean i used it in an argument against him but never pointed at him lol

[regal relic]

yeah I totally agree with y'all that a croc's alt attack should be either slower or drain some stam, because fighting a 8 tonne beyblade with massive dmg and no repercussions is not fun

Multiple times I've had one croc roll up to a 20 strong megapack of Utahs feasting on a stego corpse at shallows and just kill like 10 by abusing alt bite non-stop. It's kinda disheartening knowing that you can't do anything to it even on land, and the fact you can't pounce it when it's toe toches shallow water either.

[sinful cove]

I dont think compy's speed in the stream clip is his final speed

The dude didnt even have movement animations at that time, they probably had his speed ramped up to screw around lol

[alpine plover]

what dinosaur is compy by the way?

[stark knoll]

compsagnathus

[lament cloak]

compsagnathus

[stark knoll]

the bright yellow tiny one ^

[alpine plover]

@dusky surge I think the major issue with Carno is not his bite force.. but how much draw time there needs to be for you to be able to charge

so if anything should be buffed a bit, is Carno's draw time

[dusky surge]

thats very true

perhaps an ambush system is in order?

[alpine plover]

as far as I know right now you have to be running at full speed to be able to use the charge

[dusky surge]

RMB while standing still for an instant charge

WAY more stamdrain tho

like

[alpine plover]

I don't think ambush speed will be back but..

[dusky surge]

a lot

[alpine plover]

perhaps charge being triggered when you're running at half speed and progressively getting faster from there on

I think it wastes enough stamina if you keep it going for long

so more stamina would just be unbalanced

[alpine plover]

ohhh.. I see

jurassic park's little guy 😛

[fast hull]

So I got a question if anyone know the answer or just want to discuss about it. In : Trello Link: https://trello.com/b/G5tsb4XI/public-roadmap
We can clearly see that the Devs are actively working on the Pachy but we don't see the in development status on the fractures ?

So are they working on it or they didn't start it yet and are simply working on the pachy

[dusky surge]

oh my god i did not expect my suggestion to be so well received lmao

had an experience with carno PvP as utah where I just got LMBed to death and game over lmao. Literally minirex. Really hope they do that carno thing

[dawn falcon]

Both diets and fractures are in pre-production, meaning they aren’t full-scale developing it yet.

It is in development, just not full-scale.

[slim dragon]

@wraith spindle The one that made you lose health ?

[wraith spindle]

Ye

[slim dragon]

Well I don't

[wraith spindle]

K

[dusky surge]

i feel this bleed makes a lot more sense

[golden coral]

@cursive yacht Stego does not really hard counter a deino unless the deino is somewhat dumb, especially not since deino has an easier time disengaging than a stego does. Balance has to be done with how the current roster is, so what will happen when giga or rex is in, is irrelevant right now. Besides, stego will also need a powerup when that happens, the difference is stego is more balanced for current roster than deino is. And you're right, a carno or utah should not mess with a deino under most circumstances, but a full pack messing with a deino on land, yeah that should be okay for now at least. But you do realize even bigger things can be hunted by smaller, such as a stego or trike, or rex or giga, being hunted by utah packs, or smaller packs of medium sized critters?

Also spino will apparently take on deino even in water, deino is better off swimming away. It's not an apex in design, it's an ambush hunter using grab and drown to kill. Something it can't do on too big stuff as it stands. You using IRL would go for any other critter too. IRL I doubt carnos, much less utahs would actually hunt a stego, but here we are, with them being very able to do it. And the fact that a stego does more or less worse on land than a deino, who is supposed to not be outside water, is very strange balance to say the least. It's all fine to argue that in the future neither stego nor deino will ever be hunted by carno or utah packs, but for now, they are both balanced for the current roster. Or at least stego is, and so should deino too. Just imagine if stego was as hard to kill on land and had the same escape methods that a deino does. Then you'd see some actual complaining from the other carnivores, have no doubt of that.

[vagrant mural]

So this guy’s only argument is that he’s a deino main and doesn’t want it to lose miles in land against large Utah and carno packs

[golden coral]

Not to mention that giving deino alt bite the stam drain of a stego swing would be just fine, as well as trade the speed of alt bite and normal bite, to encourage using the normal bite in most fights and alt mostly to cover your rear when you get caught on land or otherwise surprised.

@alpine plover If you're responding to that, do so here, I don't think we're supposed to have conversations in the feedback channel. :p

[alpine plover]

Yeah, I was copying my message haha

[lament cloak]

some people need to understand this

[alpine plover]

Well, I was going to say something similar to that plus some add-ons.. but that guy basically explained quite well how I feel about Deino and balancing overall

[cursive yacht]

@golden coral Again if you do as has been asked I just will F off until the game is in a more polished state. Like I don't see the argument here; Bad deino's die and good deino's live, I've seen and participated in the killings of full grown deino's in both raptors and carno packs just to prove that they are not un-killable. They can die and they will die it just takes a good amount of teamwork which is what those animals are all about; If you die its due to mistakes on your end. Deino is fine as he is, if they were to change them and make them weaker then I'd expect stego to be made easier for deino's to kill. So how about if it comes to the water we can drag a FULL grown stego down and drown it and you can make us weaker if we are able to do that? Fair trade. One shotting the annoying scale cow would be an excellent trade for some of our power, otherwise no. L2P because you're essentially asking for them to remove deino from the game, the only thing that makes deino playable is that its not easily taken down. (Outside of stego)

I'd also want raptors/carno's speed reduced by 60% then, so they are easier to catch. ON land. Thats how ridiculous you guys sound.

[alpine plover]

Deino right now just feels like a scavenger than an ambush hunter really

[cursive yacht]

And deino is an apex, he is our water apex.

[alpine plover]

It sounds like it

[alpine plover]

Yeah, I think right now Deino's fights are mostly ALT bite.. since you turn quicker, and have no punishment for using it.. like the rest of the roster does

[hallow spire]

Most of them just go on land bcuz they have a alt bite that doesn’t consume stam so they basically can do whatever they want lol

[alpine plover]

And I will end the argument here because I don't want to discuss something with a guy that will insult just after an opinion

[alpine plover]

I know.. that's totally what happens lol

I got killed by a Deino that sneaked up on me while being on land

And there were no water sources nearby

[golden coral]

Honestly, I don't care if you play or not. That's not a valid argument for balance anyway, and I've heard that sort of sentiment no matter what the devs do. The argument is that deino alt bite is too good, and needs some balance. Stamina drain + change bite speed, so it's an alternative attack, and not your main attack, is what most of us here want. It will still make the deinos pretty lethal on land, but they won't be able to just stay on land and fight "forever". Deinos should not be hunting anything bigger than the 4T range, so no need to make stego even easier to kill. They're not prey in the first place unless opportunity really. But dragging a swimming stego would be fine, that's a specific risk. But if you honestly think deino would be unplayable if we added 5% stamina drain to alt bite (you can even keep the bite speed and see how that goes), then it sounds more like you don't know how to conserve stamina and time your strikes. Not to mention that you can "one shot" everything but adult stegos, no matter their speed, if you use your main mechanic as you should.

[golden coral]

Until spino comes in possibly.

No idea why you think having 20 alt bites instead of unlimited will suddenly make deino unviable, when it has pretty much everything else going for it. It doesn't need to be up on land taking on entire packs to be perfectly viable.

[cursive yacht]

@alpine plover And it sounds like you're entitled and want to be able to cheese just like in legacy. So go play legacy? I see so many deino's get caught out of the water and murdered on the servers I play on; They wont nerf deino because you can look at the dino and see they spent more time on it than any of the current roster. Right now he is their baby; So you either learn to accept the pecking order or move on. Because honestly in the coming months when more of the roster rolls out I think you'll find deino will bbbe fairly bbalanced.

@hallow spire Thats why most deino's I've seen go on land get killed because they either dont know how; Or simply put they get over zealous and a stego walks over and ends them with no effort. I doubt you guys really know how to play at this point, there is no way that what you're complaining is actually how it goes. You guys must just feel that you should be able to completely dumpster people with some of the smallest dino's in game. Again if they do what you ask, they should just remove the damn dino

@golden coral Your entire argument is a clowns debate. L2P. And no they've already pretty much said that in the water spino (Deep water) will not be able to compete with a full grown deino, but it doesn't need too because it can go on land and hold its own. Spino will be hunting everything under the apex level of play.

[slim dragon]

Let me join this convo, although I'm starting to be really tired of these discussions about Deino's alt-bite, so I'm gonna be quick :
It's not Deino that needs a nerf. Just its alt-bite. It is not fulfilling its intended role, because its intended role is just to attack enemies that are behind you. With alt-bite in its current state, deinos just stop using their regular bite, which apart from lunge, should be their first option.

[cursive yacht]

Also I'd like to add you're a vocal minority. If there were hundreds of people complaining then I'd see it; But its like forty or so out of our vast community. I highly doubt they are going to look and go "These forty dudes are having an issue with the learning curve, lets give em a handicap."

[golden coral]

@cursive yachtIf you don't have any solid arguments, that's on you, not me. You're wrong anyway, deino is too good, and the alt bite needs some work. You can't claim you need unlimited alt bites on land to be good, that's simply not true. And maybe out in deep water, but then why would a deino go there anyway? You're a shoreline ambush hunter... It's no cheesing because deino gets the same limiter as stego has on it's main attack, at all. Stego also takes 5 hours, but is nowhere near as viable vs the things as deino is, but that's somehow balanced? When more things come out, most of them won't be that big, we're not getting big stuff until way late, deino and stego exceptions. Unless things change again of course.

It has nothing to do with learning curve or anything, but simple game balance. And well, maybe we are, but you're even more so, being the only one complaining, and bringing in personal "I won't play if you change" sentiment into it at that.

So that's not a point in your favour if you think so :p

But I guess I can understand the sentiment somewhat, I do after all want stego buffed to be a proper apex as well, so there is that.

[alpine plover]

This is very true.. nobody uses Deino's normal bite unless you got a successful lunge

[golden coral]

Exactly. You're better off always using your alt as a main attack if you need to bite, since you get the movement as well if you need to "catch up" with a stego with the collision thing. So..

[cursive yacht]

@golden coral Deino is four shot by stego mate, you can't even contest a fully grown stego 1v1. Also if the deino's are spaming their alt bite then they aren't playing it as intended, in reality the alt bite is only good if you time it correctly. I see so many deino's wiff because they are spamming it and get bit on the butt; You can bait it because they don't even in alt bite turn on a dime. We've baited and killed so many deino's by getting them to wiff their alt bite and get dunked because three of us charge and bite it. Plus carno's can alternate between being bitten, they can just trade off and heal while the others keep dancing around it. By the time the deino (if they are not skilled) lands another strike the carno will likely be alright to go again; You're pack hunters. Employ tactics don't just charge in and expect it to be an easy fight.

Spino Likely wont be able to contest deino in its habitat, but at that point it will be kind of stuck in the water because Im pretty sure a rex or giga will manhandle it on land. And it has everything to do with a learning curve; You guys just dont know how to play.

[alpine plover]

Why use it when you just have ALT bite which allows you to turn much quicker than you normally would.. it is unlimited, and also almost spammable

[golden coral]

Anyway, I think you had it right Spartan. No point in talking to someone who does not want to understand or even try to see things from more than their own limited experience.

[vagrant mural]

I have seen plenty of deinos take stego 1 on 1 and win

[cursive yacht]

Well if the normal bite was actually worth using maybe you'd have a point, but the cooldown on it is over the top which is why they resort to the alt bite. With a normal bite you'd never hit a damn thing

Then those stego's were terrible lol. It takes so many bites to kill them. Stego just has to land four strikes, less than that if they land a headshot

[slim dragon]

Just gonna point out that I'm pretty sure that devs said Deino will have to swim away from spino in most situations

[cursive yacht]

You guys also know deino takes 10% bleed damage and the carno's we have now are mostly bleed predators right? When Cera comes out I HIGHLY doubt for the time being afterword that deino will even be a problem.

[vagrant mural]

Takes like 5, and if you land an opening headshot it literally evens the odds

[hollow canyon]

"Deino can't contest a Stego" - right... or maybe, just maybe, you might want to learn how to do it instead of spreading misinformation?

[alpine plover]

Even if Carno is a bleeding predator, Deino has so much bleed resistance it can just not care

[cursive yacht]

I mean if you land headshots sure, and if they are dumb enough to get into the water.

[alpine plover]

Why do you think Deino doesn't have a wallow?

😛

[cursive yacht]

I know thats what Im saying deino is designed to counter you

[vagrant mural]

Deino can land enough shots to kill a stego in the time for them to swing so goddam slow

[cursive yacht]

But cera is a pure power strike predator, it will likely counter deino in current form.

[hollow canyon]

Deino does just fine against Stego. It's a match up that's close to 50/50 maybe even slightly in favour of Deinosuchus. Meanwhile Deino has a better match up against... literally everything else in the game. The only animal Deino fears atm is another Deino.

[slim dragon]

Deino isn't designed to counter stego tho ? They're supposed to be a somewhat even match-up

[hollow canyon]

Yes, a 1t-1.6t Cerato is totally going to counter an 8t Deinosuchus.

[vagrant mural]

Cera is smaller than carno, and while it might have better damage than carno, it’s slower and probably won’t be resilient to the large bites deino dishes out

[golden coral]

And deino fourshots stego on head, you know that right. You can absolutely contest a stego if you know what you're doing. Simple as that. And deinos are spamming their alt bite because it's so much better. No punishment if you miss, you get the movement/turn, same damage. No reason not to. Their alt bite is plenty fast enough. If they get baited, that's on the deino, same as if a stego gets baited. And any other arguments on that goes for any group vs solo anyway, so it's not relevant for this argument. You can "trade" as utahs vs a tenno or carnos vs a stego for that matter, if that's the point. Deino can just fuck off into water, so they can escape far better than anything else anyway. Spino will be able to fight rex or giga on land, at least on the defensive, and if spino is not open ocean, it will contest deino, since deino is a shoreline ambush hunter, in the rivers. And no, it's not a matter of learning curve, I know how to play, plenty well enough. And I both know how to hunt, and how to defend as deino. Sure, stupid deinos die, stupid anything does, it's not a valid argument either for how alt bite should or should not work.

[vagrant mural]

Cera will not solve any problem other than the carno overpopulation

[hollow canyon]

Also you're wrong about Spinosaurus - the devs have stated that Deino's best option against a Spino will be to swim away from it as fast as it can.

[cursive yacht]

You do know most stego's turn their butts too the water; And the average deino player just charges them.

[golden coral]

Deino has amazing bleed resist, and I suspect stegos do more bleed than carnos anyway. Not sure how that is relevant anyway, much less what it has to do with ceratos?

[hollow canyon]

You can still kill them no matter which part of their body faces the water - or you know you can just... not approach them at all if you choose to do so?

[golden coral]

I thought it was more that stego wins easily on land, and deino easily in water.

[vagrant mural]

Deino is weird because it’s powerful enough to fight everything on the current roster with ease but also choose its fights

[hollow canyon]

Deino chooses its encounters, other animals not so much. Deino also beats pretty much every other animal in the game. It's the best PvP animal while also having some of the best survivability and an easy growth.

[golden coral]

Also wtf do you think a cerato is?!

[hollow canyon]

It's a herbivore in terms of how easy it is to grow. It's barely more difficult to grow than Stego.

[vagrant mural]

And being able to choose your fights is extremely powerful for anything

[golden coral]

It will counter deino? It'll probably kill stego easier than deino if it stands a chance vs deino in the first place any more than carno or utah does.

[cursive yacht]

I mean the artwork leads one to believe it will considering its killing a deino in the artwork thats been done

[golden coral]

I would say a stego that turns its tail to the water, is stupid

[slim dragon]

Yep, and on the shoreline it's a 50-50. Since bad deinos die to stegos and good ones win, I guess that's what we have currently. Adding a stam cost to deino's alt-bite wouldn't change anything to this matchup, but it would prevent some more unpleasant situations

[cursive yacht]

And its not a small deino either.

[golden coral]

With the lunge + deino alt movement, you've just given the deino the chance to land on your head and go ham

[alpine plover]

Deino has too much survivability because there is way too much fish AI at the moment.. which diets will hopefully fix

[lament cloak]

on top of the fact that deino has busted hitboxes and can bite a stegos head through its ass, stego actually has to aim its swings to hit a deinos head

[vagrant mural]

That is very much a small dein

[golden coral]

So you do not want to actually turn your back to the deino if you're near water

[cursive yacht]

Its like a sub-adult

[golden coral]

A small deino? Juvie?

[vagrant mural]

Have you seen how big Cera is?

[alpine plover]

When water isn't a reliable source of food for Deino, things will change

Also, I fought a juvie Deino.. true, I was also a juvie Utah.. but even hatchlings are just super hard to kill

[lament cloak]

that deino is 50% MAX. probably 20-30%

[golden coral]

I know. 50/50 should be around the shoreline (can use lunge/surprise). A stego should win if the deino is on land, and if the stego is swimming, the deino just kills it. But as it stands, deinos can fight stegos slightly too good on land as well so there is that. Collision + alt bite is powerful :p

[slim dragon]

True

[golden coral]

@cursive yachtAnyway, since you're so good at the game, why don't you explain why limiting deino alt bite to 20 or so, cause of a stamina drain is suddenly going to make it completely unviable and marked for deletion? Cause stego swing is limited like that, the main attack it has, and it can still survive apparently.

[errant plinth]

someone literally suggested making deino deaf because muh realism

what?

[golden coral]

Yeah, not sure on that one :p Though.. if we're getting different visual things..

[errant plinth]

realism is great n all but gameplay comes first.

[cursive yacht]

@golden coral Not like you'll listen or care anyway, because you seem to be such an expert. It all comes down to baiting out the alt bites; There is like a three to four second interval between alt bites that you can charge in and bite the deino. Also if you're playing full grown carno's get a pack of like seven or so of you and just trade off, when one gets bit you move off and go to sit down. Let the others go into the fight and heal because you should be able to heal quick enough to trade off with your friends, thats like 7 X 3 thats 21 bites that you're group has to kill the deino. Now if you're good you'll be able to bait a crappy deino into alt biting when he shouldn't because they will try to spam and with you all circling in every direction it opens it up for ONE of you to bite him. You need like 20-30 good bites to kill a deino, but between 7 or so of you its manageable. Im not sure what the max carno pack size is on offical because I don't play them often, not really my dino. But with a pack full of adults you should have no issue juking and dealing with a deino who is incompetant. Now if its a good deino player they will likely use the alt bite defensively and just walk back to the water, as dealing with a ton of carnos while it can be fun is not really worth your time when you can just kill your own kind for more food. Which is what I do. I kill other deino's because they are easier to kill most of the time, and take less effort. (Ironically enough because the ones I run into either don't know how to alt-bite, or are unaware that if you're beneath them that you can bite them but they can't bite you.)

Carno's are not intended to kill deino's nor are raptors. It is currently as the dev's have intended and they likely have planned out FAR in advance where they want things to be; They've already stated their intentions on a few occasions so I doubt you'll see a nerf or what it is you want to see happen. It was the same in legacy with rex, the same issues arrived and when they said they'd bake alt-turn into the game as a core feature I knew these complaints would happen. The same will happen with rex, who will be un-contestable unless you know how to deal with it. (Likely the only carnivore that'll be able to maybe do so is giga, but Im doubtful.) You have to look ahead because thats what they are balancing for, not for current and not for what you or I want. IF they haven't done it yet, then they aren't gonna... what deino is now is what he will likely be going forward albeit being likely buffed, and I highly doubt spino will be that. Deino = direct damage/bleed resistance, Spino = bleed. So spino will be doing only 10% of its damage to deino, deino will be brought to apex level and if you try to face tank a deino, the spino will loose. Because it can alt bite. I HIGHLY doubt if what has been said is true that a spino will win often with a deino, Im pretty sure deino will rule the water with spino being the one who is avoiding the gator. But then spino will have far more succesful hunts onland than deino could dream of.

[hollow canyon]

If you want to avoid having that 3-4 seconds interval between alt bites I suggest pressing alt+lmb more often than every 3-4 seconds. It works like a wonder.

[cursive yacht]

yes but most players dont do that, they just try to spam

[slim dragon]

Maybe tyhey're mistaking Alt-bite with regular bite ? Since most deino mains swap the keybinds anyway

[cursive yacht]

There is a huge portion of the deino community who is just not very good at the dino.

[frank owl]

They think spino, with its primary gimmick being bleed damage is going to trounce a dinosaur that has bleed resist???

Do you even MMO bro?

[hollow canyon]

perhaps? That would explain a couple of things

[slim dragon]

Spino's primary gimmick isn't bleed damage

[hollow canyon]

In what world would spino's primary gimmick be "bleed damage"?

[frank owl]

What other gimmick do they have?

[slim dragon]

Spino's primary gimmick is being the biggest predator in the game

[hollow canyon]

Its giant claws on forearms?

[frank owl]

So those do damage now??? Is that it?

[hollow canyon]

Yes?

[slim dragon]

Yes, claws do damage

[hollow canyon]

They could cause some bleeding but they aren't going to be doing as much bleed as a Giga

[frank owl]

Oh really??? Show me where that's a thing please

=]

[cursive yacht]

Id like to see where the dev's have said and shown it too

[alpine plover]

All dinos in the roster as far as I know have a measure of stamina drain if you alt-bite

[slim dragon]

Currently most claw attakcs in the game do damage
Teno's does, Utah's does

[cursive yacht]

No they dont.

[slim dragon]

I think it's safe to assume that spino's claw attack will do damage too

[hollow canyon]

And I'd like to see where any dev suggested that Spino is going to be a bleeder.

[slim dragon]

They don't do damage ?

[frank owl]

It's literally in the dinosaurs stats that they're copy pasting from legacy

[cursive yacht]

They've said thats the roll "It will stack bleed on the dino's near the water, and follow it to kill it."

No I meant that Alt bite does not consume stamina.

[hollow canyon]

They aren't copy pasting stats from the legacy?

[cursive yacht]

I've never seen it consume stamina on a carno or a raptor.

[hollow canyon]

Besides Spino's bleed in the legacy is 18 - it seems high only because of its weight

Giga's bleed is 40

[golden coral]

I'm not the one making outrageous claims that a critter needs to be deleted or similar because of a minor balance change. I am also not the one just using "L2P" or similar arguments to try and prove any superiority, so by all means stop projecting your own faults on me.

You can bait anything, but when there is no limit to the amount of attacks, the baiting is much less useful. Compare and contrast the stego swing with the deino alt bite and you'll see what I mean. And no there isn't that much of a "cooldown", it's surprisingly fast to use, plenty fast enough at the very least. And sure, you can do so vs a stego too, or anything else. Also 5 carnos is max pack if we go by official limits. But that's not an argument on if alt bite is balanced. You can just say "get enough people" and you can take anything in a raw "facetank" you know. And it's not a matter of if you can do it or not, but if it's balanced or not. Like sure, you can take 20 utahs and kill a solo stego, like you can kill a solo deino. But that's not how we discuss and do balance, simple as that

I would agree, neither carnos nor utahs are meant to kill deinos, or stegos for that matter. But as I stated, current roster balance. In the future, I personally hope stego gets apex level treatment too, but I also understand that it's not viable for now. And even so, giving deino stamina drain on alt bite is not going to make it any less of an apex, or make it "weak", much less "useless" as you seem to imply. It's not so much a nerf as a balance to make alt work in a more proper fashion. And you seem to think rex will be invincible, when I'm sure there'll be plenty of things that can take it on, solo or in packs. Same with deino, or stego, or any other large critter. And they are balancing for current.

[frank owl]

Literally raptor and carno...

[hollow canyon]

Yea, that's exactly why Carno has 200 biteforce in Evrima... oh wait

I also remember vividly Utah having 130N biteforce in the legacy branch

[frank owl]

Same exact mechanics dude. You're missing the point.

[cursive yacht]

They've pretty much hinted that rex wont be able to be killed by anything short of an apex.

[golden coral]

@cursive yachtThey've said they've balanced deino and stego for current roster, so you're simply wrong there. And what's feedback for if not to get the players opinion on stuff. You seem to make up a whole lot of how you think rex or spino or something else will work, when we don't even know the half of it. Spino has been said to have arms it can use vs stuff, that would include deinos for that matter most likely.

[cursive yacht]

Maybe a pack of sub apex level characters sure

[hollow canyon]

What mechanics? Utah's pounce? Yea that was so good in the legacy. It also dealt a tonne of bleed.

[slim dragon]

Oh yeah. The same exact mechanics. I loved Legacy Utah's pounce.

It claws did so much 0 damage

[frank owl]

You're going on defenseive because you realized what you said was ignorant??? Goooooood.....Gooood!

[golden coral]

@cursive yachtAnd you still, at no point, gave an argument as to why a slight change with stamina drain on alt bite would make the deino useless and no longer playable. Please do so if you want to make such claims in the first place.

[alpine plover]

@cursive yacht also, you are ALWAYS talking about a pack.. of course with a pack it will be harder for a Deino and it will most likely die.. possibly defeating a few of the members of the pack in the process..

But fighting a Deino solo is just not fun because Deino is just too strong.. his ALT bite plus bleed resistance allows it to maneuver and kill whatever it faces.

Having a measure of stamina drain when you use alt bite won't change much at all.. it will only serve as: "Oh, I can only use this [ability] X times before I run out of stamina.. gotta make them count and gotta know how to manage stamina otherwise I will have a hard time"

[hollow canyon]

No, I'm saying you're wrong about just every single thing you've written. The dinosaurs in the legacy were completely different to their Evrima counterparts.

[golden coral]

This is not a "mmo" like that. And what makes you think spino will be doing bleed damage?

[cursive yacht]

Just gonna do what should've been done from the git go, blocked. Now does anyone else want to join the roster XD

[alpine plover]

That's the only thing it will happen

[hollow canyon]

Klaxon thinks it's going to be a bleeder because it had a "high bleed damage" in the legacy. That high bleed was 18 btw.

[golden coral]

I believe they've said something once about how a spino could hunt anky better than rex cause "can flip it", which would imply usage of the arms for that.

[hollow canyon]

The only reason Spino's bleed was high was because Spino had an enormous weight which caused its relatively mediocre bleed to seem rather high.

Not that this animal should be doing even mediocre bleed.

[frank owl]

What makes you think they won't follow the same play loop they've been following since legacy? Do you really think they're going to deviate that much from what they've already developed and produced? Or do you think they're going to deviate from intended gameplay just because a few malcontents are spamming in ballance feedback?

[vagrant mural]

Lmfao

[slim dragon]

If they follow the same play loop as in legacy, spino won't be a bleeder tho

[golden coral]

Why would they, we've seen new and changed stuff already. Yes, I think they will change the spino since it has a new model and all. Same with other things most likely.

[frank owl]

I never said it was high bleed damage... But Aken likes making things up, and that's fine. =]

[hollow canyon]

They are going to deviate from what they've already developd and produced because they want to do that.

[frank owl]

Be fake if you want.

[frank owl]

WRONG. =]

[golden coral]

And spino were never a bleeder no

That was what the giga did

[vagrant mural]

A bleeder implies high bleed damage

[slim dragon]

Your literally said Spino was a bleeder

[frank owl]

"implied" lmfao. Try again.

[slim dragon]

Just here

[hollow canyon]

"with its primary gimmick being bleed damage"

[frank owl]

Yes? And where did I say in there that SPINO HAD BIG BAG BLEED DAMAGE

Nowhere.

Try again, kid

[vagrant mural]

By your logic wouldn’t Giga have the same gimmick as spino

Or dilo

[slim dragon]

So you said spino will be a shitty playable ?

[stark knoll]

if you cant have a civil conversation then dont have one at all

i recommend this topic is dropped

[slim dragon]

Cause a playable that has bleed as its main gimmick but doesn't do good amounts of it is a shitty playable in most cases

[golden coral]

Raptor alt bite takes stamina last I checked. Tenno claw does not. And I doubt rex will be that invincible, that's not really good balance either. No idea where you get "stack bleed on things near the water" from. would like to see a quote on that. And I'm still waiting on that explanation on why stamina drain on deino alt bite will make deino as a playable useless.

[frank owl]

I TRIED that multiple times, but I keep getting pinged, which I mentioned YESTERDAY to a moderator @stark knoll

[slim dragon]

I'll follow Superlunary's advice

[stark knoll]

if you dont like getting pinged, you can block them

[vagrant mural]

Utah is the only alt bite that costs stam to my knowledge

[frank owl]

It's like they find new people to ping me

[golden coral]

So much for being capable of having an actual discussion

[frank owl]

Not with people that don't discuss

[alpine plover]

Love it when a person blocks somebody else just because they can't back up their claims and know they're wrong but they will never accept it

[stark knoll]

that doesnt stop you from being civil. now drop the topic

[frank owl]

You just like putting shit in my mouth

[golden coral]

@frank owlLook in a mirror.

[stark knoll]

both of you

[golden coral]

Fine, I'll ignore that one and just counter the arguments themselves. Which would still be that spino is not a bleeder, wasn't in progression(legacy), and there's no reason to think it will be in Evrima, especially not with the new design, that has been said to be able to defend vs rexes and all.

[vagrant mural]

🍿

Also since Acro in legacy was fast, does that mean in evrima it’s gonna be faster than carno again?

[golden coral]

If they keep the weird upsize I guess, same with herrera :p

Herrera borders on being too fast to be playable, at least to me

[vagrant mural]

Ah ok, good to know they definitely aren’t going in any other direction with those playables that would possibly contradict that

[golden coral]

I would imagine a deino vs spino where the spino can stand, might go very badly for the deino. Grab it, hold it down, it'll drown eventually :p

[supple basin]

Well, new version new stats I guess? I mean they showed it climbing trees so maybe it wont be so fast anymore on land? We just can wait and see

[hollow canyon]

I think it will most likely just kill a Deino with raw damage. I wouldn't imagine it drowning Deino that would... take forever to accomplish.

[vagrant mural]

Deino should be able to outmaneuver and hit it in deeper open water

10 minutes of holding down a deino sounds painful tbh

[golden coral]

Yeah. I hope it's not quite as fast, or if it is, very very short bursts, so you can run to a tree and jump up, but not really run around on land much.

But still be able to dart in for that weird flesh grazing thing and out again

Just be sure you have a way out or whatever you just took a bite out of will get you :p

[supple basin]

I just hope that it will have a kinda fall damage resistance because of its future way to live in tree

Oh do you think you'll be able to grab stuff into trees? like hypsi corpse?

[golden coral]

I wish it would, I want a shrike aspect to the herrera

But probably not, not sure they can program that in

[vagrant mural]

Impale bodies on spikes

[golden coral]

Yes exactly

Would be great, and give a nice horror vibe maybe. Find a tree with skulls and halfeaten bodies hanging from the branches.. :p

[supple basin]

some intestines and stuf... yerks but.. cool in way XD

[golden coral]

Well they do want gore and all that, so if it's doable, why not :p

[supple basin]

With the actual body moving around when you eat, I think it will be kinda hard to keep your prey on a branch, I almost wanna see a cera with open mouth that wait down there like : com'on fall food!

[golden coral]

Hahaha, that would be hilarious :p Or a utah trying to get up but not reaching.. "If only I could jump a little higher.."

@supple basinI imagine it could work similar to wallowing. If you can have specific parts of a branch where if you're holding food, you can press E to place it. Maybe only doable with bigger pieces that would leave some sort of skeleton, ribcages, skulls, legs/tailpiece maybe. If the herrera can carry those extra large chunks as an ability, and get them up in the tree, it might work.

[supple basin]

I think it would be too much to add in the game just for the herrera but it is nice to think of it

[verbal zenith]

im laughing cause someone doesn't think alligators and crocs have ear's

[dim radish]

Well duh, birds and reptiles don't have ears either you know?
Birds and lizards don't have poofy bunny ears so they must be clearly deaf

Those are not ears, that's what the government wants you to believe, wake up

[alpine plover]

Lemme see

Deino mains are the new Rex mains now

Providing little to discussion and advocating for overpowered playables while lashing out at anyone who suggests a modicum of a balance change.

[sinful cove]

“If you make it so Deino has to function the way it was intended instead of being a terrestrial brawling beyblade i'll quit until rex” these people don't even try to hide it lol

[alpine plover]

The old ways die hard

Give them a semblance of a carnivore apex and we see a repeat of Legacy apex advocates

[sinful cove]

Is a rex main saying he'll quit really a threat? I mean the game won't suffer at all with one less toxic apex main from legacy

[novel tulip]

Ikr

Just leave

[sinful cove]

Yeah he doesnt have to make a scene about it lol

[grave veldt]

Looks like sum stuff went down here

[golden coral]

I think he actually left the Islecord. In any case, the argument that adding a stamina drain (like stego swing maybe), would somehow turn the deino from apex to.. well, not viable/good, is very strange. Not as if the deino would even lose it's main mechanic, it would just encourage the deino to retreat a bit faster when cornered by big packs, and it would still be able to inflict severe damage + the stamina regen (and with deino bleed resist, not sure how soon that would actually affect it adversely).

[sinful cove]

lol holy shit he did leave

[golden coral]

@grave veldtYou could say that yes :p

[novel tulip]

Even with the alt drain, you could easily defend yourself at the waters edge

[sinful cove]

Honestly if the alt bite just had diminishing returns on stam use it would probably be fine

Like it would only punish the spamming idiots

[golden coral]

To be fair, we shouldn't speak ill of someone not here to defend themselves, but I tried to get a proper explanation for why a slight stamina drain would suddenly make deino bad, but never got any good argument for how it would make it so bad.

[grave veldt]

I always miss the big fights

[sinful cove]

Probably just an apex main who doesn't want to lose their throne, if they dont give reasoning its usually the case

Like the other deino main yesterday

[grave veldt]

Yk the thing is tho making deinos alt bite cost stam will help it be more balanced for sure but it’s spam alt biting technique against stego will remain unchanged

[sinful cove]

Probably yeah

[grave veldt]

Although technically that’s sort of a collision problem and partly stego problem

[golden coral]

Well yes, even with 20 bites, you're pretty well set for defending yourself for quite a while unless you've run, which goes for stego as well for that matter. But it's mostly to make deino slightly less able to just keep fighting just fine on land, it's not specifically a stego vs deino issue.

[grave veldt]

I’m surprised it doesn’t cost stam

[sinful cove]

It seems simply unfinished honestly

[alpine plover]

People have their favourites and reasons why.
Though sometimes the reasons being is that it feels good to win, and the capacity required for them to win is not so taxing. It's at a comfortable level for them.
This is what I think led to the apex main phenomenon and grew such a playerbase. They liked being the big bad, catching everything, winning against mostly everything. Anything else or shifts in balance to challenge this irked them. Which usually we see reactions common to this where they simply rebuke modes of thought or concepts of balance. It's comforting and isn't stressful to maintain, while rewarding those players with winning matchups.

[grave veldt]

That tends to happen a lot in the isle lol

[alpine plover]

I've always been behind the philosophy that the more powerful the playable is solo, the more stressful or difficult it should be to maintain.

[sinful cove]

Yeah they partially complete something, throw it out into the game to maybe finish later lol

[grave veldt]

Honestly carnivores should tend to work around their prey while the herbivores retain the dmg to be able to face tank

[sinful cove]

Rn deino is very easy to maintain while being very powerful which of course satisfies the AFKpexes from legacy

[alpine plover]

^

[grave veldt]

If Rex was in the game 90% of deinos would immediately switch

[alpine plover]

And it's been shown clearly with the infested gator rivers even after several weeks from launch

[sinful cove]

90% of deinos and 50% of carnos lol

[alpine plover]

Power=difficulty
In this case, it isn't true for Deino

[grave veldt]

Deino shouldn’t be super powerful as it’s supposed to be a niche animal to play as

It’s super specific play style that not everyone would want to be but ofc we see how that ended up

[sinful cove]

Yep people whined that it couldn't just spam bite shit to death and now we have the alt bite

Which funnily enough, like half of deino players don't seem to know how to use, same with the lunge. Goes to show how dumb the combat style they're used to is

[alpine plover]

It needs more difficulty to setup an ambush
It needs more stress in terms of growing.
It shouldn't ever be even remotely challenging Stego one on one which are terrestrial to begin with on land.

[golden coral]

Add 50% or more of the stegos to that ^^

[low nimbus]

oh my god imagine how many rexes there will be when rex comes out

pain

im not playing for 2 months after rex comes out

[alpine plover]

Eh, adults will be rare

i would just take out as many juvies and subs as physically possible so there’s no chance for them

[novel tulip]

The hunt

[hallow spire]

Same

[regal relic]

I'm personally all for balancing the game for now rather then for the future

aka lets balance all the dinos so that they work with each other and are all fun to play, with none being overpowered. Then, once a new dino is added, change the balance if needed to make the new combination of dinosaurs still fun and balanced to play

I don't think game balance is "release it without tweaking it and hope for the best"

which is why I don't want an unkillable and unbleedable spinning beyblade of death to roll around the plains miles away from any river and kill a pack of 20 Utahs without effort

[alpine plover]

wait.. did he actually leave?

LOL

[alpine plover]

not really.. Rex would probably have a high metabolism and with not too much Dryo AI going around plus the difficulty of finding other players cause they only stay in hotspots would make it quite challenging to survive

but yeah

[sinful cove]

Rexes using their ptera buddies to catch fish for them to pass juvie stage, its gonna happen lol

[alpine plover]

currently Deinos, besides the fact that their ALT-bite is almost spammable.. it basically have huge amounts of survivability

high bleed resistance - high HP.. they do A LOT of bleeding because they weight 8 tons and as far as I know bleed scales with weight now

plus being handfed of fish..

which is literally like.. the most abundant resource in the game right now

I went to croc pond once and there was easily like 30 fish in that spot..

[alpine plover]

well, yes and no.. we don't know when Rex will be a thing but with diets

they won't be able to eat fish unless they want a harder time growing

and also they wouldn't be able to AFK grow or stay in a hotspot because diets will kind of force you to move around the map more..

incentive you, I should say..

I think Rex AI will be a thing far earlier than Rex as a playable character

[grave veldt]

Ur taking what I said out of context

[sinful cove]

Depends how strict carni diets are, I keep hearing they will be much looser than herbi ones, but hopefully they at least stop stuff like rexes growing off of small shit and fish

[grave veldt]

It should def not be as required as a herbi since your preferred prey might not always be around

[alpine plover]

well, I would guess Rex ate both.. small things, fish.. probably no, because they were mostly land dwellers.. but yeah

[alpine plover]

I'm just saying that switching from Deino to Rex wouldn't be viable because Rex would have a harder time surviving

whilst Deino feels like it's the king of the isle as of now

[sinful cove]

Carni diets shouldnt require specific animals but it should be a range of things they want, and things outside that range would be discouraged

[grave veldt]

Yes but that’s a whole different context to what I was saying before many hours ago

[sinful cove]

Like rex only targeting weak animals compared to itself should be punished

[grave veldt]

But yea rex in general (hopefully) is hard to grow

[sinful cove]

A brawling apex should be rewarded for taking risk only

[alpine plover]

things will change from here on.. we will see how diets affect gameplay, but.. yeah

[sinful cove]

And on the other end, carno would be discouraged from hunting things in its weight class or higher

[alpine plover]

going back to the Deino topic.. it really needs a bit of stamina consumption when using alt bite attacks..

[sinful cove]

And stuff like that

[alpine plover]

it's just too easy to fight as Deino right now and most things won't basically pose a risk for it unless it's Stego or a pack

[sinful cove]

Deino should get diminishing returns on stamina to punish spamming the bite, but not punish proper usage

Like the bite can cost 5% stam on the first couple uses, them as you keep spamming it the cost doubles

[alpine plover]

and Stego is not even a real-threat as it is a balanced fight

[sinful cove]

Doesnt deino run stego down lol

[alpine plover]

I feel like same principle as Stego's impale should work for Deino

depending on where Deino alt bites it should consume more stamina and have more delay

so there's opportunities to punish that

which currently Deino doesn't have

[alpine plover]

I'd say it's a balanced fight.. if a Stego knows what it's doing it can kill a Deino

but a Deino can probably kill a Stego..

that's the other thing about Deino's alt bite

you can use it as a dodge of sorts

[sinful cove]

Deino bites stego's head through its ass while dodging headshots itself rn

Kinda silly

Deino should be severely disadvantaged on land, while swimming terrestrials are severely disadvantaged. Right now though deino is good on both fronts

[alpine plover]

yeah

totally agree there

it feels so if you do not use alt-bite and like try to turn and use LMB to fight

like most fights are..

but alt-biting just makes Deino too strong

[sinful cove]

Its funny that deino has better defense coverage than a stego lol

[alpine plover]

Deino should be an ambush hunter and right now it feels more like a scavenger than an ambush hunter

[sinful cove]

It def feels more like a bully than an ambusher, people just never bothered to learn how to use the lunge because they are mostly rex mains from legacy who think spam lmb combat is the best shit ever

[alpine plover]

I tried lunging for some but I never actually got a successful one T_T

[sinful cove]

I think desync is also fucking it up a little

[alpine plover]

actually, at least for me

having vsync off helped A LOT boost FPS's and helped quite a bit with the rubberbanding issue and some bites not registering when I fought

but yeah, alt-biting sideways should be quick for Deino and it should lose stamina but not quite.. alt-biting forward or backwards should have a higher stamina consumption and a higher delay to re-use it

or, yeah.. don't add stamina consumption, but increase the delay time to re-use alt bite a bit.. enough to make it non-spammable

also, speaking a bit about Carno's.. I didn't know that the purpose of Carnos was to be a small game hunter and ambush predator.. I feel like everything should be able to kill everything but there's risks involving that

one thing I do hate about Carno is how much wind-up is needed to actually be able to charge..

that's like.. one big flaw I do not like about it

[sinful cove]

Not every predator should be able to hunt every other animal, each one should have its specialties

Carnos hunting trikes, rexes and other large powerful animals just shouldn’t happen ever unless the player they’re attacking is the lowest tier garbage at the game

Carno hunting stegos is already dumb, and having a 50/50 with tenonto is also not right. Once more small game comes it should be more balanced for hunting below its weight class

[alpine plover]

I mean.. back then Mapusaurus hunted Argentinosaurus.. which is like, twice their size..

I believe it wouldn't make sense for only certain things to be hunted by certain dinosaurs.. whichever dinosaur you're using should have a chance..

albeit being risky

or better suited if it's a pack

it wouldn't make sense to have a big roster if Dinosaurs can't just fight each other.. wouldn't really make it a survival game

[sinful cove]

I mean, fighting isnt the only option

Carno can run from the whole roster, it doesnt also need to be able to hunt the whole roster

It should have its charge improved and its regular bite reduced as well as its pack size lowered, it is honestly boring if every predator can hunt every dino, they should be fit around different lifestyles

[alpine plover]

I mean

Magy is rumored to taste so bad the only thing that would be able to eat it is Cerato

so Cerato could possibly fight Magys

[alpine plover]

perks will help more with different playstyles..

to fit what you would like to play as or not

[sinful cove]

Magy tasting bad wont save it from kfs which is at least half of the kill motive in this game right now

[alpine plover]

but yeah, I don't agree with certain dinos only capable of fighting certain others.. it would defeat the purpose of a survival game

[sinful cove]

Not really

Survival game = / = fighting game

Survival also includes flight not just fight

Dont gotta hunt everything in sight like a deathmatch

[alpine plover]

well, I mean.. once humans are added it will be a bit more of a survival.. but yeah

diets will be a game changing mechanic so.. we will see how that will affect the game

it's possible that diets will do that though.. certain herbivores or carnivores being in the diet of another carni and thus having to move to the places where it roams..

thus having to fight only a certain species..

but then there might be a different dinosaur that eats you and you have to fight for survival.. I don't know, we'll see

the thing that scares me about diets is that.. It could potentially force the player a little too much..

I want diets to incentivate other players to move and make the map more lively, reduce hotspots.. but I also don't want it to be the only unique special thing that a player will have to follow in order to grow normally..

if a player wants to follow a different diet.. then it should be free to do so, without that much punishment..

that's my fear.

[regal relic]

I agree, with a map this big too, if all players were spread evenly, you might not (as a carnivore) have a choice in what you eat because by the time you see another herb you might be starving and have to fight it, be it a stego or teno

As a Utah, I find that about 70% of my diet is dead Utahs who are killed by the stego/teno during our fight, with the herbs either getting away or being stolen by fat crocs because we fought within 1km of the river

[alpine plover]

I think diets can be fun, as long as a playstyle is not imposed on us

I try to fight different things when I play.. but like..

having a diet means you will have to follow that diet.. or is the possibility to also just not care about the diet and eat other things there too?

will it punish you in any way to just not follow it.. will it make it harder for you to grow.. how will they work?

what will be the difference between someone that actually follows a diet strictly than those who just eat things outside of their diet?

Let's be real
The chance were the ideal diet can be consistent for a playable is slim to none
If the chance were to somehow present itself. Like keeping up both hunger and thirst to 100%. While eating strictly your ideal diet.
There should be dramatic effects, and massive growth increases.

as far as I know if you follow a strict diet your growth times will be heavily increased

and if you don't follow your diet you'll have a much harder time growing up

which is what takes me back.. but I'm not sure if this is how it's going to work, so..

I'll wait till next update and see for myself

though what I'm certain of is.. I do not want to be forced to play a certain way because of this new mechanic

[dawn falcon]

Diets aren’t a necessity, but it is encouraged you follow it if you want the benefits

[alpine plover]

I see

Do you happen to know the benefits you will gain?

[supple basin]

If I remember correctly, you'll grow faster or slower if you follow it

or not following it

[spare badger]

Basically, if you eat the wrong things, you'll grow super slow. Eat the right things u grow fast

[supple basin]

So let say if there is for instance a lot of utahs and they are the only food for themselves and utahs are not part of their diets you will still have a lot of utahs but they will be a pain to go till full adult because of their diets (it's a supposition I don't know what utah's diet will be)

or if you are an herbivore if you don't eat the correct plants you'll grow slower too

It will maybe force species to go to certain places because favorite food will be to those places

For instance if a favourite plant for tenos is at north and the one for stegos south those herbivores will meet maybe less.

[alpine plover]

So it basically is a necessity.. from the looks of it

I will ask punch just to be certain.. but if it's like that, then it won't be as fun as I thought

[spare badger]

Somewhat. If you follow it halfway you'll be fine, it's like: don't eat the same type of bush that your Dino doesn't like cause it'll grow slow, look for a better food source for your Dino. Not a necessity but pretty close to one

[alpine plover]

Well, it's not a bad way to make people travel through the map.. but, it will depend on how bad the "punishment" for not following them will be..

How much slower?

If it's like, less than an hour.. or an hour at most, then well.. it's not ideal but it's not the end of the world

Now, if it's higher than that.. then it will be an issue

Because then you would really be forced to follow a diet.. to be on equal grounds with others

And forcing a player to play a certain way is never a good idea

Some dinos already have quite high growth times.. so, yeah

And we don't even have things like Rex, or Trike, or Spino.. Giga, Shant.. other apexes yet

Can't even begin to imagine how it would feel like to have a much slower growth time with them.

[sinful cove]

honestly it should vary between dino

like a rex that doesnt follow its diet should take fucking forever to grow, like double its base time or something, but more generalist animals wouldnt be punished so hard

it would be good to see a rex that tries to grow off of a low risk lifestyle take like 20 hours to get to adult as punishment lol

[alpine plover]

Oh hell no

I'm sorry but Rex in Legacy takes like 6 hours or so to grow and that's starting from juvenile only

[sinful cove]

yeah and there's also like 50 of them on each server

so clearly they arent having enough problems

[alpine plover]

The point of diets should be to make the map more lively and interactive while also rewarding players with perhaps perks for following them

But it shouldn't be a must

[sinful cove]

rex base should be like 7 instead of 6 in evrima

[alpine plover]

And if there's punishment for not following the diet, then it shouldn't be so hard

Otherwise players will barely touch the dinosaurs

[sinful cove]

for some it should, some it shouldn't, apex predators shouldnt have it as easy as some mid tier with diets

people arent going to stop playing rex no matter what honestly

it's such an overrated dino and also good in every lifestage that's why they became a plague in legacy

[alpine plover]

Well, I'm speaking generally..

I personally would not enjoy being forced to follow a diet because otherwise I will get severely punished with absurds grow times

[sinful cove]

punishment should vary, obviously some basic dino like utah or cerato wouldnt get a 4 hour growth for fucking something up lol

[alpine plover]

Diets should be an option not a must

[sinful cove]

it should vary by multiple factors like how much of an affect the dino has on the ecosystem and how accessible its diet is

[alpine plover]

Well, I don't really think the game will go that realistic to be honest

[sinful cove]

not really about realism

more about a soft balance on the ecosystem

because who wants to see 50 rexes on a server

[alpine plover]

But, if diets are fun and growth times become a more.. pleasurable experience for the player, then it shouldn't be a problem..

[slim dragon]

Imagine diets and growth are like leveling up in an RPG. You can reach max level only by killing lvl 1 mobs, but it will take way longer than always fighting the strongest available enemy. You wouldn't want a player than just stays all the time in the same area killing lvl 1 mobs get as powerful as you, who always puts your life at stake fighting the biggest and strongest enemies ?

[alpine plover]

Otherwise, if there is heavy punishments, and you're basically being forced to follow them just to have a "normal" growth experience.. then it will not be fun at all

[sinful cove]

exactly

a rex who targets the weak to grow and doesnt take risk hunting its preferred prey, which should be its size range or larger, would be punished with slow growth

obviously not all dinos are supposed to hunt things bigger than them, but as an example rex should

[alpine plover]

Well, yeah.. that would make sense

[sinful cove]

if you want to be a pussy and not risk a fight you can pick your poison

[alpine plover]

At one point you have to go for the enemies that reward you with more experience

[slim dragon]

Yes, that is what diets are for. It's not as much punishing the "regular player" as long as they're not trying to just lazily go for the easiest target, it is to reward the player who tries their best to boost their dino

[alpine plover]

But yeah, we won't truly know how diets are going to be and how they will truly work until they're released next update.. hopefully it is a fun experience

[slim dragon]

From what I've heard, if you play badly but still respect what your dino should go for, you won't be punished much

[alpine plover]

Well, that's not always the case.. sometimes you are starving and you need that easy, accessible meal to survive.. but yeah

[sinful cove]

if you are starving frequently enough you should be punished for it, a couple times shouldnt hinder you all that much

[alpine plover]

We will see how diets are once they are in the game.. as I said, hope it is a fun experience

I would hate so much having a dinosaur like Shant or Giga or Spino, and having highly reduced times for something that already takes A LOT to grow

[dawn falcon]

I mean

If you pick an apex

You’re kinda signing up for the growth times

[alpine plover]

That.. not how it should work

Lol

[dawn falcon]

If you choose to neglect your diet, you should be punished for it

[sinful cove]

i mean it kinda is, if you suck shit and are constantly starving you should be punished

because it means you're a bad predator and bad predators die

or have a bad time growing up

[alpine plover]

You are already somewhat being punished by almost dying if you don't eat

[dawn falcon]

Now, like, if you get punished for starving, go find food and eliminate the debuff

[alpine plover]

You don't need an extra punishment for not finding food lol

[sinful cove]

they are adding much more diverse AI down the line too

[dawn falcon]

^

And not to mention they are fixing AI spawns

[sinful cove]

if you are having a consistent issue playing your role as a hunter then you do deserve the extra punishment

because we dont need a bunch of shite rexes making it to adult

[dawn falcon]

Apexes in general should be fewer

That’s where diets take a role in it

[sinful cove]

yeah i don't want that garbage in legacy where i see a rex every few minutes

[alpine plover]

Yeah, Stego teno utah and Rex

So far

[dawn falcon]

Huh

There should be fewer anything the higher up the tier you go

[alpine plover]

That's the list of AI they have planned on the trello board

[dawn falcon]

Smalls are abundant

While apexes are scarce

And in the middle.. is the middle

[dawn falcon]

Correct

And with more ai

That means you technically should starve less

cause the main reason people starve at this point in time is because the ai spawns are white

Shite*

Ai spawns where there’s less players for some reason

[alpine plover]

Yeah, fish AI compared to Dryo AI is so broken now :P

[dawn falcon]

Agreed

The devs need to fix the spawns so they spawn where there’s activity

Not like legacy’s ai

But around the most popular area

Or areas