#balance-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 249 of 1

golden coral
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@hollow canyonYou want to weight in on this too?

ripe zinc
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also stego is the only dino that doesn't get an automatic death sentence if a deino catches it drinking from deep water, so your argument is all kinds of flawed

grave veldt
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it shouldnt happen at all

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not even 1 in 1000 cases

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the stego should be taken down thru actual baiting and things of that nature

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not spam alt biting after lunge

hollow canyon
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Idk, bad Deinos I presume? It's kind of a 50/50 match up

frosty heron
golden coral
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@frosty heronWith the alt bite you can headshot the stego pretty easily from what I know, with the ambush (with or without the stun), you're most likely going to win, unless the stego gets lucky. And you can fight them sort of on land too, with the alt bite trick and possibly something else.

ripe zinc
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the deino is powerless if the stego just leaves, it's not hard

grave veldt
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not when the stego has to drink

silent harness
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what do you mean powertlesss if it leaves the croc can out run it?

grave veldt
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u guys rly need to see a video of this because its insane

frosty heron
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If you have Stam you can just leave

silent harness
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or experience it

golden coral
ripe zinc
grave veldt
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yea but drinking and dying after growing for 5 hours due to deinos abusing hitboxes and collision isnt fun

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the whole point of deino is not seeing it

frosty heron
grave veldt
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yes

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did u not read anything

frosty heron
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Alright, I'm out

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Cya

grave veldt
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bruh

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lol

ripe zinc
grave veldt
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cant even comprehend anything

sinful cove
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he thinks it's cool for deino to headshot stego through its ass cheek

hollow canyon
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In general I think the issue is not so much with Deino being capable of killing a Stego but more so with Deino being... kind of unkillable to everything else.

grave veldt
golden coral
hollow canyon
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Stegosaurus is killable to Utahs, Carnos and Deinos

grave veldt
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the deino will kill the stego b4 it manages to get away

frosty heron
hollow canyon
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Meanwhile Deinosuchus is killable to... Deinosuchus and that's the end of the list.

grave veldt
sinful cove
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idk bro i think it's nonsense to think it's ok to headshot something from its thigh but to each their own i guess

ripe zinc
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I tried this on our test server against a deino that can consistently 1v1 stegos, he could not stop me from just running away

hollow canyon
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Well a Stego can kill it if Deino actively goes after it but it's a very close match up and one of the combatants will live with the tiniest amount of hp.

grave veldt
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^

frosty heron
hollow canyon
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I just don't see much of a reason to go for Stegosaurus if Deino does everything Stego does kind of better.

grave veldt
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im gonna ignore u becuz u dont want to reason with anything

hollow canyon
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Tbh I don't really see much of a reason to play Carno or Utah either because Deino just outperforms all the carnivores atm(aside from Ptera I suppose).

frosty heron
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All I'm just watching now it's a lot of nosense of broken hitboxes this looks like a Legacy discussion, which honestly makes me wanna leave

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Always the same with Islecord

hollow canyon
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The hitboxes aren't broken

frosty heron
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I don't see anything constructive here

ripe zinc
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nah, deino is actually shit at being anywhere but in the most boring biome and not being cannibalized

grave veldt
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it has nothing to do with the hitboxes being broken

hollow canyon
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The collisions are more of an issue if anything.

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Deino does just fine on land.

grave veldt
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it has to do with the hitboxes being changed and horrible collision which allows deino to bite stegos head thru their ass

ripe zinc
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it's good that other people play deinos though, don't get me wrong, I just find it boring

small fog
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less food??? what server are you playin on pal?

hollow canyon
grave veldt
golden coral
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@ripe zincI'd like to see if stego can actually run away despite having been ambushed/stunned, and the deino following immediately with alt biting and being "up the ass" of the stego.

frosty heron
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Just because a Deino found a way of killing a Stego doesn't mean the game its hitbox abusing, dude I've seen Carnos bitting Utahs without touching them, netcode problems exist

grave veldt
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ok

golden coral
frosty heron
grave veldt
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they dont

frosty heron
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No, but git gud because "You play Utah"

frosty heron
grave veldt
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they dont base of the tail isnt a 1 shot

dawn falcon
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Base isn’t a one shot

frosty heron
grave veldt
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yea but that goes for every dinosaur

golden coral
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But this has nothing to do with netcode..

frosty heron
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And I'm not even complain about it

grave veldt
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desync is an issue with everything

ripe zinc
frosty heron
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Because desync happens

frosty heron
grave veldt
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yea but still tho tail isnt a one shot

golden coral
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Yes but thats not the issue with the deino/stego thing

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It has nothing to do with netcode there

hollow canyon
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Deino vs Stego isn't based on desync though

ripe zinc
dawn falcon
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^^

hollow canyon
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It's based on the fact that Deino phases through Stegos body allowing it to hit the head of the Stego while being on the opposite side of the animal.

frosty heron
golden coral
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And the utah is a dismount issue, not netcode either, or at least so I've seen people say, meaning that the stego is hitting the utah body, not the tail.

ripe zinc
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@alpine plover Believe it or not, I wouldn't want to minimize how much people need to hunt. It would be legacy all over again

silent harness
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ok so lets say it is a 1shot kill all the time gotta be extra carefull and if you die its only like 45min to get back where you were

hollow canyon
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Where do you get the 45 minutes from?

silent harness
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to get to sub adult

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i know itss 1h15 to full but still

hollow canyon
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Why are we talking about a subadult all of a sudden?

silent harness
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i dunno the exact times

granite gate
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yes stegos can "just run away" from a deino, but not before suffering immense damage thanks to the wacked ass hitboxes. stegos also cant ambush deinos (not saying they should) in a fight. they HAVE to drink. health lock is a big issue, by the time they would have healed back up from one deino encounter, they'll already have died from dehydration. deinos can 100% choose not to engage due to fish AI, stegos cannot.
deinos are literally immune to being hunted from everything on the roster except for other deinos. stegos, at the same amount of growth, can be hunted by utahs, carnos, and deinos -- especially thanks to stuns and the shit hitboxes

silent harness
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fine 1h15min

grave veldt
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the the hitbox changes were good tho the main issue is collision

granite gate
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also i do think the pounce hitbox thing should be fixed by adding a way to disengage from a successful pounce without dying, but for deino v. stego, the hitboxes definitely favor the deino

hollow canyon
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Just going to say that running after a Stego trying to bite it doesn't work very well for Deino

ripe zinc
hollow canyon
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It kind of depends on how close to the Stego you've managed to get but unless you were on top of it you will end up biting the tip of its tail doing absolutely nothing to it.

granite gate
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the issue is that stegos have insane thirst tho, especially compared to the rest of the roster

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they literally cant stray more than 200 feet from water

ripe zinc
grave veldt
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honestly what id say is keep stegos food drain but increase its food value much higher this way it can last awhile but it needs lots and lots of bushes

granite gate
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yeh i can agree with that, thirst should not be so high for them considering they'll eat a shit ton of moist plant life

ripe zinc
granite gate
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idk how far that is

silent harness
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i still think grazing should slow thirst as well

granite gate
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center plains = the area between the west and east rivers?

grave veldt
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in general tho big heavy animals shouldnt be needing to drink so frequently

ripe zinc
grave veldt
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^

ripe zinc
silent harness
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load up a really big tank in terms of food and water sounds fine

granite gate
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in my experience that's like a 10-15 minute journey, isnt it?

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one-way?

golden coral
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Let's not turn herbis into "eat constantly" please, I still have horrible memories from that one time in progression.. :p

grave veldt
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stegos water drain lasts 30 minutes exactly

golden coral
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But yeah, stegos could be fine needing a bit more food in general, honestly, most things could use a boost there maybe, make for a bit more competition and all.. :p

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Would also solve Turbos issue with all the food, at least somewhat, if the carnis needed more food too?

ripe zinc
grave veldt
granite gate
silent harness
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^

grave veldt
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30 mins exactly

granite gate
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jesus

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it's worse than i thought

grave veldt
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it is indeed quite short

ripe zinc
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tf are you even on about

hollow canyon
golden coral
grave veldt
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for 6 ton dino thats slow as hell its not needed

hollow canyon
#

The entire roster had its water values set to 30 minutes back in update 2.

ripe zinc
grave veldt
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yes a bigger dinos shouldnt be needing water that much

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also with diets ppl wont be waiting 30 mins to drink

silent harness
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@ripe zinc i think hes talking about world objectives for entertainment rather than just picking fights for entertainment

hollow canyon
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I thought it was much less than 30 minutes from what everyone here was saying. I don't see the issue if it's set to 30 minutes.

grave veldt
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they'll wait 10-15 minutes to go drink again

dawn falcon
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Bigger Dinos should be drinking more water but the drain is slower. Good or bad idea?

golden coral
# ripe zinc agreed

Do the same for carnivores, I think that would help your issue there too? Make the carnis life a bit harder if even a utah needs copious amounts of food?

grave veldt
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30 mins for smaller dinos is fine

ripe zinc
grave veldt
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not for such a slow animal tho

silent harness
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that i cant answer...

ripe zinc
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it's as much about avoiding the combat imo, it's a survival game after all

grave veldt
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remember when diets come out ppl r gonna be watching their stats better so most likely ppl will be drinking every 10-15 minutes

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which is just not needed

ripe zinc
hollow canyon
grave veldt
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if we do keep the same water drain % give more options for water

granite gate
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it shouldnt be the same

hollow canyon
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^

granite gate
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people shouldnt only be around water holes

ripe zinc
#

your name is hilariously ironic

hollow canyon
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Dryo's good at fighting and killing stuff though

grave veldt
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its true tho theres literally nothing else to do except fight

hollow canyon
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so I don't see how that's ironic at all

ripe zinc
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small stuff

grave veldt
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what else r u gonna do except fight rn

golden coral
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Dryo is lethal according to rumors :p

grave veldt
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sit around for days?

granite gate
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considering fighting is literally the only entertaining mechanic in the game atm, i think fights should last way longer but be worth more food for carnis. was in a normal-sized 6 adult utah pack the other day and encountered a tenonto herd. fight lasted literally 2 minutes.......

frosty heron
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I'm gonna pick Dryo and kill juvie Deinos. Purpose? Population control

grave veldt
#

whats dryo's bite force

frosty heron
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Has to be done

grave veldt
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75?

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ok

ripe zinc
hollow canyon
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It's not a deathmatch with a waiting period then?

granite gate
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except that it literally is atm

grave veldt
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thats literally what it is tho

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lol

granite gate
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"here's how long you have until you can be viable in a fight" -> i.e, utah pounce

ripe zinc
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only because the actual survival aspect is too ez

granite gate
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why do you think juvies hide? they hide because they cant fight

ripe zinc
hollow canyon
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If survival was the main goal of this game everyone would play Dryo yet pretty much no one does.

grave veldt
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its a combination of growing is easy and also theres literally nothing to do after u do grow

ripe zinc
granite gate
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it's """"supposed""" to be utah's main attack

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i know it sucks atm

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im just saying you cant even use it till you're adult

ripe zinc
granite gate
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dryo's only not played much because most people dont play it. it's a feedback loop since everyone thinks "oh dumb small herbi must be weak"

hollow canyon
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That's nice and all but it's clearly not the favourite animal of the playerbase at large as I barely ever see Dryos despite the fact that they are the best animals at surviving on this patch.

ripe zinc
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nah. I'm currently playing a stego cursed with immortality though, can't wait for it to die so I can play dryo again TI_LUL

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stego is infuriatingly slow

grave veldt
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wait till u actually find a deino who knows wtf their doing

granite gate
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or has even half a brain cell

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lmao

grave veldt
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lol

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its literally just

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stun and spam alt bite

granite gate
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dryos are pretty pog ngl

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and their growth time is at a good spot imo

ripe zinc
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dryo should have double the grow time it has now tbf

grave veldt
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god no

ripe zinc
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I play on unofficials, why wouldn't I?

granite gate
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leave dryo alone goddamnit

ripe zinc
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*god-tier herbivore

grave veldt
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play on officials and u'll see how fast u die

granite gate
#

i thought dryos are 40 min??

ripe zinc
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30 minutes just makes it a bit of a throw-away imo, dying should hurt

grave veldt
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dryos r 30 mins now

granite gate
#

oh pogass?

grave veldt
#

yee

granite gate
#

^

grave veldt
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^^^

granite gate
#

let people have a fuckin fun dino that doesnt take an hour

ripe zinc
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1 hour is not heavily penalizing, it's still among the fastest

granite gate
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:(

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relatively

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an hour is still a long time

grave veldt
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why grow 1 hour for dryo when u can grow for one hour and be a dryo that can fly?

granite gate
#

especially for progress that can be wiped out in literal seconds

ripe zinc
granite gate
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pteras are 45? i thought they were an hour

grave veldt
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1 hour positive

ripe zinc
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wasn't ptera one of the dinos that got 15 minutes shaved off?

grave veldt
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nah they kept its growth time the same

ripe zinc
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all right then

grave veldt
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which is fair

granite gate
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even then ptera is just spec mode. yeah you're immortal but you cant do much with them. dryos at least can sprint around annoying utah packs

ripe zinc
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well anyway the dryo doesn't need to be 100% to be good

grave veldt
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honestly ive killed a few juvis as a ptera so

ripe zinc
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it goes seamlessly from invisible to the Flash

granite gate
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ive killed a few sub utahs as dryo lmao

grave veldt
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like every dino

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ever

granite gate
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i havent had much time to play recently :(

grave veldt
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see dryo is god tier in terms of surviving but is it fun tho??

granite gate
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it is as fun as you can make it

ripe zinc
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and? you're invisible until you can outrun everything, it's not all about being at peak effectiveness

golden coral
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Dying as anything should be penalizing. A critter who's life you don't value has no place in a survival game.

grave veldt
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ight i havent played it in awhile so

golden coral
#

And dryos growth time being upped would be fine, it's borderline immortal currently.. :p

ripe zinc
granite gate
grave veldt
granite gate
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it would also naturally balance the player base instead of 1500 rexes running around like in legacy

ripe zinc
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play on an instant grow server then

golden coral
granite gate
#

it's pretty balanced dude

ripe zinc
granite gate
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if it werent, you'd see everyone running around as a dryo and not a deino

grave veldt
golden coral
ripe zinc
golden coral
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I'm fine with that, make dodge better instead!

granite gate
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let people have a fast n furious lil ankle biting herbi 😩 like fine maybe up it to 40 min, but an hour? nah

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make growth 40 min when dryos get burrows, a better dodge, and a slight speed nerf

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for now 30 min is fine

ripe zinc
granite gate
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not everything has to be a massive time sink to be fun

golden coral
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At the end of the day, I want a hardcore survival game, and I don't feel like "shits and giggles" playables really have a place there, no matter how small or "weak" they might be. Properly balanced for survival, and given a reason to care about their lives as much as anything else, is how it should be to me.

ripe zinc
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like any beginners play dryo

grave veldt
ripe zinc
grave veldt
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yea but no 1 hour is not needed

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why would u waste 1 hour on a dryo when u could've been a ptera?

granite gate
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and erik, having to grow something for 30+ min still makes me care about the lil dryo's life. people have thrown away MORE on 5 hour grows on stupid deino v stego 1v1s they couldve walked away from

ripe zinc
granite gate
#

let people have different play styles you buffoons

grave veldt
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^

granite gate
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15 minutes to be able to actually affect the environment around you

golden coral
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Depends a bit on what you mean with "prey" there. I'd say all playables should be fun and encouraged to be played. And that none of them should be specifically "prey", since things will and should hunt different things for different reasons, and so on.

ripe zinc
#

because the playstyles are different enough that both are a change of pace. At least until muh AI is properly implemented making it ez for carnivores to find food and ez for herbivores because carnis don't need to chase them anymore

granite gate
#

i think it's more interesting to have some prey animals like dryos be slippery and hard to catch, but also plentiful. that is literally what their current growth time encourages

golden coral
granite gate
#

people treat utahs as throwaways atm too

golden coral
#

I also want the entire growth time to be a fun play time, and not something you can just "afk" through and be just fine with. But that might be helped with diets.

granite gate
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people make stupid ass decisions in the game all the time

golden coral
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So I guess a dryo growing in 30 min is fine if it requires you to be out and about and all that.

granite gate
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time should not be the sole "balancing" mechanic in this game

grave veldt
golden coral
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I'd still probably think the lowest should be an hour, and only go up a little from there. It should be more about difficulty than just time.

grave veldt
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some things shouldnt go past certain growth times tho

ripe zinc
granite gate
#

the issue with that is that there simply wont be enough players willing to sink in an hour for each life. do i think rexes should grow in 20 minutes? no. the whole point of low growth times for smaller species is to encourage people to fill out those niches more plentifully.

golden coral
#

Agree to disagree on that one. Like I said, I believe the game should require investment even for the lowest tiers, and an hour or even two is not.. much at all. Especially not if you're playing actively and having fun.

grave veldt
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2?

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imagine growing a dryo for 2 hours

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lmao

granite gate
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lmao seconded

grave veldt
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holy shit

granite gate
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do you want rexes to take 24 hours to grow??

golden coral
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I've seen people wanting that yes Slim.

granite gate
#

do you know how fast things can die in this game?

lament cloak
granite gate
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literally people can one shot you

golden coral
#

Grow in more than one session I believe the idea is.

grave veldt
#

60***

granite gate
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😩

golden coral
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And since I tend to play for 2-3 hours, I see no issue with that being the lower end.

grave veldt
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3 hours for dryo imagine

granite gate
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well good for you man, not everyone has 2-3 hours to sit in a bush to grow

golden coral
#

And yes, I'm pretty sure people want rex to take 8 or possibly more hours. :p

golden coral
ripe zinc
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I think the problem is some of you spend the growing period in a bush bored out of your mind and want the game balanced around that playstyle. I'm sure I'm wrong, but it seems that way sometimes.

granite gate
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i understand higher growth times for BIG animals that have BIG impacts on the environment. a dryo does not have a huge impact on the environment

grave veldt
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again keep the growth time the same just make it difficult

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make dryos go out into the open for specific foods

granite gate
#

^

golden coral
grave veldt
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just saying the effect will be the same

ripe zinc
golden coral
#

It's not about the impact Slim, it's about it being a hardcore survival game where your entire gameplay is living out the lifecycle of the critter you've chosen :p

grave veldt
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if u grow for 30 minutes but died 4 times in the end it counts as something that u prolly wont throwaway

granite gate
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the issue is that you're extremely vulnerable to dying instantly especially as a juvie. having the game be balanced solely on time invested alone (especially when that time investment can be ripped away in a 2 minute battle) is just a free salt generator.

golden coral
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But yeah, if survival rates for dryos are very low, that would make it better.

ripe zinc
grave veldt
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just saying

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not rn

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for the future

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when diets r in

golden coral
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And you imagine having a survival rate of 50% or less for a dryo would be any more popular than longer growth times? :p

ripe zinc
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stop saying diets as if just invoking diets in the conversation does any good for the game we are all currently playing

granite gate
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if you want harder gameplay, play something bigger. not every dino should be some massive commitment. people should have the choice to play something quicker to grow, but less powerful.

grave veldt
golden coral
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But then I imagine growing a rex would be almost impossible if dryo is that hard :p

grave veldt
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its literally in the next update

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u have to take account for it

golden coral
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That's fine too. We just disagree on what constitutes "massive" commitment vs no commitment :p

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To me an hour or two is.. not much at all, so of course I'm going to start there :p

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I've seen people say even rex should grow in 3-4 hours at most, cause "I dont have time to grow one otherwise"

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So you know, it's highly subjective what someone thinks are good time values

grave veldt
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but for sum ppl even spending 45 mins is a lot

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thats why have varying growth times helps

granite gate
#

^

golden coral
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Yes and for those people, growing a rex for 3 hours would probably be fine

ripe zinc
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playing as a perfectly viable dino for an hour before you're at full strength = massive commitment
I'll just leave it there, I have work in the morning

grave veldt
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sum ppl would and will low key sit and grow a rex for 10 hours if needed

granite gate
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well the issue there is CHOICE. have a wide range of dinos with widely varying growth times

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not saying rex should be 2 hours

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rex SHOULD have a long time commitment. smaller dinos should not need that, and should be available for players with less time

golden coral
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It's not a matter of choice, it's a matter of following some sort of standard I'd say

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If the lowest growth time is very low, then the highest one can't be that high

granite gate
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it can be tho?

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what?

golden coral
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Since that makes no sense

granite gate
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dryo being 30 min doesnt mean rex should be 4 hours?

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???

golden coral
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You don't have values between 15 min and 15 hours

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I mean you could, but it's stupid in my eyes

grave veldt
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u can make rex say 7 hours but keep say something like compy at 5 minutes

granite gate
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in a game AIMING to have varied playstyles, you literally can

golden coral
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So yes, it can, but I don't think that makes sense, so I'd rather not have it that way

grave veldt
granite gate
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^

golden coral
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Thing is, I treat every playable the same, you on the other hand do not. Which is fine :p

grave veldt
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some ppl think 5 hours is nothing some ppl can barley spend 1 hour

granite gate
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the devs are literally building the game to allow for different playstyles

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that's the whole point of evrima

grave veldt
golden coral
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@grave veldtAnd if you think x or y hours is fine, then wouldn't that relate to all the playables. That's how I see it. And what I meant is that all playables to me should be important and valued as playables, as such they should all require investment and all that.

granite gate
#

this dude thinks that short grow times prevent long grow times from being in the game because ??? 😩 ???

grave veldt
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u dont need high growth times to have something valued tho

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u just need to make the gameplay with that dino impactful

golden coral
grave veldt
#

again if u make each playable enjoyable thats what matters the most

golden coral
granite gate
#

high impact on other players / survivability = higher growth times. dryos do not have a huge impact on other players

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rexes do

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literally bruh

golden coral
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The gameplay style does not have any relevance though? Not quite sure how you mean there.

granite gate
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it's like going to play an MMO and wondering why getting to level 2 takes less time than getting to level 99

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genuinely how does that not make sense to you

grave veldt
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time is super relevant depending on the dino u play u cant have everything the same

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it wont work

golden coral
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It was a response to Lion saying that you don't need high growth times to make something valuable.

grave veldt
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yes but balance still takes effect

granite gate
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if there's a "minimum" growth time then, what would you give hypsi? an hour?

golden coral
#

See thats the thing, I dont make a distinction between sizes

granite gate
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but that's literally the game

golden coral
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They're all survivables, they should all be treated as valuable lives to me. It's that simple. You clearly disagree, and that's fine.

granite gate
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lmao

golden coral
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I disagree :p

grave veldt
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u can make each one valuable without having high grow times for dinos that dont need it

golden coral
granite gate
#

aight im out this dude's just out of his mind..........

grave veldt
#

elder diets and things like that will make dryo enjoyable

granite gate
#

doesnt want anyone other than unemployed freeloaders on the game ig

golden coral
#

Because that's what I said, right? :p

grave veldt
#

all im saying is high growth times for everything is super un balanced and it wont work in the long run

golden coral
granite gate
#

2-3 hours is a huge amount of time for something that can be killed in seconds. most people who have very little time to play dont want to bother with that

#

ive stated my case, you've stated your's, it's not going anywhere productive

grave veldt
#

because its a survival game what u play matters

golden coral
grave veldt
#

so balance shouldnt be considered?

golden coral
grave veldt
#

the amount of time u invest should reflect ur time

ripe zinc
#

where are all these players playing dryos because it has a short grow though?

grave veldt
#

u dont get to lvl 99 in one second

golden coral
#

@granite gateFair enough. But you didn't need to be rude to get to that point. :p

tight pecan
#

Every time I play Dryo a stego kills me, so I'm not doing that again.

grave veldt
#

what u put in is what should come out

golden coral
#

Where's the high mortality rate though? :p

#

And why are we talking levels? :p

grave veldt
#

thats an issue with the dryo itself tho

#

not its growth

#

it needs to be changed to have a proper dodge and less speed

golden coral
#

Well that goes for new players in general. Im not sure what to say to that.. :p

ripe zinc
#

Shouldn't balance the game around new players though

grave veldt
#

everything isnt equal to each other and it wont ever be

golden coral
#

See that's the thing. I think everything should be difficult, just to more or less degree.

#

Yet somehow that does not seem to get through to you

grave veldt
#

you can make things difficult tho w/o having high grow times for smaller dinosaurs

golden coral
#

Not in my eyes no.

grave veldt
#

u sure can for bigger dinosaurs but then it becomes un balanced

ripe zinc
#

Dryo won't become low-tier just because you keep saying it is, you know.

grave veldt
#

then u have 50 rexes going around

golden coral
#

More difficult than it currently is, yes.

grave veldt
#

time changes it tho

#

a small child isnt as good as an adult right

#

ur time should reflect what comes out

golden coral
#

Not at all, I merely want it to be harsh and hardcore survival, no matter what.

#

IT's.. not for everyone though

#

That much I can agree with

#

No it's not.

#

At all

grave veldt
#

lol

ripe zinc
#

I genuinely don't care if new players wanna play dryo or not, I want it to stay fun for me. And shortening the grow time made it less fun.

golden coral
#

Even they might actually have made their game harder for now with their water thing ^^

#

So there is that.. :p

ripe zinc
#

And like I already said, it's not like new players gravitate to the weakest looking dinosaur anyway

grave veldt
#

to keep balance u need specific dinos to not have high grow times

grave veldt
ripe zinc
#

That has nothing to do with what we're discussing

golden coral
#

@grave veldtI have no idea how you're reasoning concerning balance honestly. But clearly we don't see it the same way. Difficulty should be a thing for every playable, and time should always be a thing.

#

... Okay yeah, no. You're ever so wrong on me being a good player.

#

Biased maybe, but certainly not for that reason at the very least

grave veldt
#

balance is being added because no matter how difficult something is if u make dryo and say rex both 2 hours who do u think is going to be constantly picked?

golden coral
#

But the game currently is not hard, it's been harsher back in the day, and hopefully it will get way harder again.

golden coral
grave veldt
ripe zinc
#

That, and increasing the grow speed. Who cares if a utah kills you if you're right back on the horse?

golden coral
#

I apologize for any offense, but I do not recognize your name :p But I was never a very good tenno player, I was at best halfway decent at it. I sincerely think you overestimate how good I was, and have ever been, at this game.

grave veldt
ripe zinc
#

Yes it does

golden coral
#

Not that I don't appreciate the sentiment, but I do disagree with the statement @alpine plover

golden coral
grave veldt
ripe zinc
grave veldt
golden coral
#

From what I remember, most I played with were pretty happy to talk as well :p But that makes me curious, what name did you use? And maybe I am, it's admittedly not easy to judge yourself, but I could name both Oyo, Parasaur, Bubbels, and there were probably a few other regulars in the tenno herd that were better than me all around.

grave veldt
#

oh well i dont wanna argue for days but just becuz we disagree doesnt mean we have to be enemies so good day sir or ma'am

golden coral
ripe zinc
golden coral
#

And yes, it's all good Lion. There's nothing wrong with agreeing or disagreeing on things. I think we still agree on stego if nothing else you know :p

grave veldt
#

stego lel

golden coral
#

Didn't think you were, just naming them as people I would say were far better tennos than I ever were. :)

grave veldt
#

actually ive agreed with every and all of ur opinions except this one so there is that lol

golden coral
grave veldt
#

atleast for carnivores

golden coral
#

Huh, that actually sounds somewhat familiar.. :p Sorry if I died in a bad spot, but back then tenno meta was to take a bath whenever you saw a utah. Are you one of CircleofLife's lot then? :p

#

Cause I know his pack hunted me a few times

#

This was mostly on officials I think. I meant Circle as in the admin/former admin, he had a utah pack and they got me a time or two. Just curious, never did know who else was in that group :p

#

Alright, just cause the encounter sounded familiar, and I think his group got me like that once as well :p

#

Oh wait, no, I know which log you mean. I probably know the exact encounter too :p

#

And all I wanted was to just sit there and chill xD

#

Yep!

#

It was fun! :)

gloomy fulcrum
#

Erik I think you killed me in that utah pack lmao.

golden coral
#

Fair enough, but the others would have done better than I did :p I did say I was halfway decent, not just as good as you made it sound

golden coral
#

But I still died apparently? :p

#

Aw, sorry that you died there, should have stayed behind to fight too then! And now I really am curious who you might be.. I got some names on the tip of my tongue but.. :p

alpine plover
#

Higher food yields wont be possible

#

whats going to stop mega packing

#

even the current food yields do nothing

#

strains are meant to be insanely rare

#

I agree, thats why we need a stress system, but apparently the devs really think food will limit megapacks

#

Oh

#

I forgot about that

#

Now that I think about it if players werent dumb megapacking wouldn’t be a thing

alpine plover
#

they need to bring hints back

#

No I mean in game hints

#

that pop up when you experience in game things

golden coral
#

Like the "press E to"?

alpine plover
#

and when you smell your first megapack, it tells you what it is

golden coral
#

Game does suffer from a lack of informing players on how things work

ripe zinc
#

Game isn't half done though, better to make a tutorial when all the features are in than amending the tutorial for every new feature.

golden coral
#

You're not entirely wrong I suppose, but I would say we could do with something more than just the ingame loading screen hints, even if it has to be updated

zenith vessel
#

Just give carno a red bull then it can fly after the pteras

grave veldt
#

idk if u know but like

#

look up and maybe u'll bite the ptera too

hollow canyon
#

Actually Carno can't really fight back against a good Ptera

#

You won't be able to hit it from the same distance it hits you from

grave veldt
#

ok

#

go in the woods lol

#

no excuses for dying to a ptera

#

hopefully that person didnt die

#

(if they were adult)

hollow canyon
#

Yea, a mid tier carnivore should absolutely be forced to go to woods because a flying rat is attacking it

#

I doubt they did

grave veldt
#

it doesnt need to anyways

hollow canyon
#

it takes a long time for a Pteranodon to kill a Carno

#

nevertheless the fact that Pteranodon can hit a Carno without it being able to fight back is pretty stupid

grave veldt
#

math wise ptera does 50N so it'll take 40 bites to kill a fully grown carno

#

(body shots)

hollow canyon
#

The very fact that it's doable is just stupid.

grave veldt
#

atleast it doesnt do bleed

ripe zinc
#

Unless pteras massacring grown carnos becomes a problem, it's fine as is if you ask me

hollow canyon
#

Well yea thank the heavens it doesn't do bleed

ripe zinc
#

it's annoying for sure but that's just how it is with pteras

hollow canyon
#

They won't be massacring Carnos because Carnos can always go into woods. They shouldn't have to go into woods just because a flying dryo is after them.

grave veldt
#

it rly wont happen anyways because the ptera will make mistakes and it only takes one to die

#

plus it can only do drive by's

hollow canyon
#

It will

#

I've already tested it out against one Pteranodon as a subadult Carno - it would eventually kill me if I didn't retreat from a body I had lying in the plains.

#

You're not going to hit it unless it messes up really badly.

#

The very fact that a flying Dryo can do stuff like that with terrestrial animals being unable to fight back is bad design.

ripe zinc
#

my main strategy for dealing with a ptera attacking me as a big carno is to pretend it's not there until it goes away or crashes, it's been working out so far

hollow canyon
#

Bad Pteras

grave veldt
#

idk if its just me i but i swear sometimes the ptera can hit u from further away sometimes

hollow canyon
#

It can hit you from further away every time

grave veldt
#

like it'll attack say 2 inches above u

#

but u'll still get hit

hollow canyon
#

It's just a matter of whether it knows it can do that or not

summer lily
#

@grave veldt why for Stam?

#

What Stam animation needs cancelling?

#

Or do you think it should cost stamina to stop wallowing?

grave veldt
#

they put in those animations on purpose so u dont instantly stop after wallowing so there some actual vunerability

#

if everyone can just up and peace out whats the point

summer lily
#

Animation cancelling has been a feature in the past, and one they want to put back in

#

It just need more coding and smooth animation transitions that aren't in the game rn

grave veldt
#

food and water is fine

#

i can see them being cancelled later

summer lily
#

We've always been able to cancel wallowing animation until they edited the animation

grave veldt
#

but wallowing shouldnt be or if it is used with some stam

summer lily
#

It's not deliberate

golden coral
#

I don't know, water I think is fine, food seems to take some time, even dryo do.

grave veldt
#

i rly dont see the problem tho

#

when u wallow it actually makes u think where to wallow since ur vunerable

summer lily
#

You still have to stand up after stopping wallowing. It's not like you go from walking to being able to run off

ripe zinc
#

I think wallowing should make you vulnerable, as it's so useful in combat and shouldn't be without risk. You should be able to stop eating at a moment's notice though. Taking two full seconds two stop eating, especially when playing dryo which will die in those two seconds if someone runs up on it, is ridiculous.

grave veldt
#

im confused u said cancelling the animation

summer lily
#

The Devs will include animation cancelling for wallowing again. It's just not a priority. I'm asking they make it a priority

golden coral
#

So far it hasn't been a problem for me personally, but I can agree that the eating anim can feel a bit slow, water I've never really noticed. Never really had issues with wallowing, but then I've not wallowed unless in combat, at which point I'd already be on high alert.

summer lily
golden coral
#

@ripe zincDryo do take some time, I was surprised when I tested it out. It's less to me about the danger honestly, and more just that "Im done eating, let me move along now" :p

summer lily
#

There's a bug atm where you start wallowing instead of drinking. And it's agony to have to wait for your Dinosaur to stop before you can drink.

grave veldt
#

oh yea

#

thats hella annoying

ripe zinc
grave veldt
#

with ptera its the opposite

#

ptera will drink on the mud

summer lily
ripe zinc
summer lily
#

It's not a free bite or two. It's 6-7 bites and death

ripe zinc
summer lily
#

Cancelling the wallowing animation, going back into the stand up animation, is a bite or two

ripe zinc
summer lily
#

What we currently have is being locked into a long animation

summer lily
ripe zinc
#

I'm gonna go test that, give me a minute

grave veldt
#

wait so the actual wallow animation keep going and u cant cancel it to play the standing up animation?

#

if so thats wack

summer lily
#

For a few seconds yeah

grave veldt
#

yea thats pretty wack

summer lily
#

You used to be able to cancel it at any point

ripe zinc
#

no, you can still cancel it and stand up, you don't have to finish wallowing

summer lily
#

I didn't say you had to finish wallowing

#

The time you're locked into the wallow is a lot longer than it used to be.

ripe zinc
#

You said "What we currently have is being locked into a long animation"
it's like two seconds

#

which is fair imo

#

You also said it's 6 or 7 free bites, which noone can do in two seconds. Not even animation cancelling deinos

silent comet
wheat field
#

@severe trellis Escape is basically useless rn besides going into settings, to see your progress press Insert if you do not have insert go into setting and rebind it. To see progress once in character menu by pressing insert or rebinding it hover over the bar at the bottom of the character menu. Tab for player list is not yet implemented into Evrima

golden coral
#

The pounce dismount distance is an issue, but otherwise I don't see much problems honestly. I do agree with the utah on utah pounce, never was a fan of the "oneshot" with no retaliation at all. Dryo speed could absolutely do with a nerf, but their dodge needs help instead. And carnos "shitting" on utahs is fine, that's their job after all. They're supposed to win, not be an even fight, and a full pack of raptors should fear a full pack of carnos more than the other way around. But with all the utahs I've seen running around, they seem to be doing just fine in general.

sudden orbit
#

Yes but the problem is utah is the only dinosaur who is actively punished in several ways for using their ability. If dinosaurs were punished for missing or doing badly then carno should get self stunned if it hits a tree in a full charge or something. If the pounce ability cannot be balanced without just making it useless, then perhaps utah shouldn't have it at all and instead get a different niche

golden coral
#

The dismount thing is an issue, the stun on miss is not. You miss the pounce, you should be punished, just like stego or tenno are punished by massive stamina drain. Which is an idea I've seen, that a missed pounce just drains all your stamina instead of stunning you. And yes, a carno should get stunned if it runs into a tree or rock on the charge, sounds reasonable to me actually.

#

There should be a punishment for missing pounce, but what exactly it should be I don't know. Just that it has to be noticable so you take care to aim and avoid to pounce if you're not sure you can land it.

sudden orbit
#

Yes but dying isn't equivalent to having more stamina drained as a punishment. No other dinosaurs are punished by missing something. If utah could instantly get up and run away with a massive stamina cost id be fine with that too

#

but the problem is, the self stun will get you killed

#

And then you have to start again as a useless baby

#

Carno has an ability to knock a dinosaur over for a pretty long while, he gets no punishment for missing or anything of the sort. It's just a long cooldown

#

Why not a very long cooldown for the pounce?

#

All in all, I am fine with some punishment, but a near 3 second stun is just deadly

golden coral
#

Hence why I did say the exact punishment can be talked about. I don't think it has to be a stun long enough that you die, except if you land right next to the targets main weapons maybe, I just want it to be noticable so you do care about aiming and landing it, and doesn't go back to spamming it like earlier. And personally I don't like cooldowns, not a fan of that for carno either to be honest, so I don't know.

sudden orbit
#

Basically when we were testing these things out, the moment a utah missed a pounce, whatever it was fighting in the test easily just turned around or walked up and ended it in most cases. Which basically wastes 1 hour and 15 minutes

golden coral
#

I think the main issue was the spammability of the pounce. A carno can't really spam charge, it needs to turn around (lose out on the charge cause no more running I think), then start running again, hit the speed, and charge. (and that's without any cooldown).

#

Then there's the slot thing, that needs to be fixed, maybe that would be a trade off. Make the pounce have to require proper aim, but minimize (or remove) the stun. And remove the damage/bleed on impact (if it's still there), you should have to stay on for an "attack cycle" to do something, not just get on/get off :p

sudden orbit
#

I'd be fine with staying on for a cycle but at the same time the current pounce compared to update 2 is vastly slower already. It's much easier to the target to scrape you off of a tree than it was before due to how long it takes.

#

We timed it around 15 ish seconds on an adult carno, that's how long the pounce lasts

#

with full stamina

#

We didn't use a proper timer though, so the result may be off

#

depens on how long the cycle is however, that could be an interesting fix tbh

golden coral
#

Exchange the stun for a cooldown, remove the neat "slotting" system (with proper knockdown instead if you pounce the wrong spots), and that might be better then? And I don't know how much impact does any longer, it might not be a problem anymore. It was just irritating back then you know, you'd have utahs just jump on/off immediately and kill you that way.. :p

#

Which I personally found a bit stupid at least, since it at that point limited counterplay heavily unless you were just hugging a tree/rock the entire time and didn't move at all.

sudden orbit
#

To me personally it seems jumping on and off is a big waste of stamina and just gets you killed due to the kickback standing and walking thing

#

Either way, I just want utah to not be in this situation anymore. Utah was full of chill people back in update 2, now every utah pack cannibalizes any utah they see pretty much.

#

I would take pretty much anything towards the right direction. Also did you read the bit about dryos?

golden coral
#

Could be, I haven't tested utah lately, I just know the "cycling" on/off was very strange back then. And I don't know how utahs behave, but I don't think it has much to do with any gameplay changes honestly, carnos seem to be good at being cannibals too. And there's rumors of.. well, groups/clans showing up so that could be a reason too for the new hostility.

#

And yes, I saw about the dryo. I think dryos need a speed nerf, and work on their dodge instead. And a damage nerf for that matter.

sudden orbit
#

Oh right you did say that

#

I don't know about the clan thing, I play on a pretty cool server I think, haven't seen any clans show up there yet

golden coral
#

Them killing off juvie raptors is fine, that makes some sense, since raptors will try and hunt them when older. And you should be able to protect your juvies with some proper planning + using the pounce to catch the dryos if they try for an attack run. I'd say a bit of that might just be poor planning on the side of the utah pack.

sudden orbit
#

Though imagine unable to hunt bigger things such as stegosaurs or whatever else and not being able to catch smaller dinosaurs. Cannibalism or killing baby crocs is like the only way at that point

golden coral
#

But dryo do need some changes, the speed and damage is a potential issue.

sudden orbit
#

I personally have been sticking to killing baby crocs

golden coral
#

Well utahs can hunt stegos, unless the stego is literally hugging a tree/rock the entire time. And catch dryos unawares. I do think at times there's a lack of proper planning/hunting that seems to be prevalent. But that could be cause the hunger might go down too fast. Not sure how good/bad utahs hunger drain is?

sudden orbit
#

Uhh... unsure. I think it was like 45 minutes to lose your entire hunger in update 2, i think it's less now. Again unsure. And stegos are too risky since the kickback issue

#

Many people don't want to wait 1 hour and 15 minutes just to grow up and will avoid these very dangerous fights due to the pounce being iffy

spare badger
#

They can still run after u gotta time it tho it's weird

sudden orbit
#

Well, me and my friend took turns being a stegosaur, whenever a utah dismounted it was a guaranteed kill. The only way we found out that it could survive if it jumped off towards lower ground. So the stegos in the test, after learning it would turn the pouncing utah towards high ground so their kickback was shorter in range and it was 100% fatality lol

#

its pretty crazy

#

I was talking to Lvl 5 Dino, unsure what he meant though

golden coral
#

That's a bit of a low timer, could be an issue. And well, I would say it's good to want to avoid dangerous fights, your goal is to survive after all. But having a bit more time to properly plan a hunt might be good, and help out a bit.

sudden orbit
#

I think he meant stegos running after you

#

Planning a hunt changes nothing when the dinosaur you hunt has 100% kill chance upon you using an ability on it. It's fine to avoid dangerous fights but with the pounce being so punishing it just feels like my time of the day is being wasted by trying to get food

limber pewter
#

Bit a stego 5 times in the face as full grown deino and then got 2 hit..

#

Stego is way more balanced then legacy stego, but the health or the damage needs a nerf for stego.

golden coral
#

It does change since it allows you to wait for a good moment to strike, and all those things. Though yes, the dismount is an issue, I've said as much. I was talking more in general on how to conduct a hunt successfully and all.

limber pewter
#

Good thing that the real deino bite force isn't here yet. So I think it will be better when the real bite force arrives

sudden orbit
#

I don't want deino to have larger bite force tbh. I think it is fine the way it is having a drowning niche

#

Crocs dont kill by biting something over and over, they drown it

golden coral
#

Far as I know Wavyy, deino fourshots a stego on the head, and stego do not twoshot a deino, not even on the head. So maybe that was either lag or something else off. And stego do not need a nerf, stego already have very low health for it's size. And deino do not need more bite damage either, it can fight stegos quite well these days, especially from the water with lunge/ambush.

#

And as Resuru said, deino is designed for a specific niche, as such, even with an upped biteforce, it should still rely on grabbing and drowning stuff, not going at em and biting them on land.

limber pewter
#

I remember a dev saying that deino doesn't have his real power yet.

golden coral
#

For that matter I doubt the "real" stego stats are here either, it will also most likely get buffed, like deino, when every other big thing is around.

limber pewter
#

Yeah. Cerato and carno turf wars will be so fun lol

sudden orbit
#

Stego i think three shots a deino and deino does in fact five shot one. THOUGH it is now possible with a water lunge to stun the stego for a brief period of time giving you an advantage

limber pewter
#

But yeah evrima isn't complete yet so we can't say much about balancing

#

Other then the current dinos we have noe

#

Now*

grave veldt
#

stego five shots a deino

#

and because of weird collision deino now constantly has the advantage some rly good deinos can make it 50/50 on land

#

which is insane

wintry mountain
#

Out of a personal preference, expecting Deinosuchus to be some run onto land and bite something to death because 'must bite force is, very much a bad notion

#

You are an animal specifically designed around grabbing other animals and drowning them, not a water rex who can just rely on biting

grave veldt
#

whats kinda sad is that how it is with stego rn

wintry mountain
#

Aye, but losing a 5 hour animal to a grab with no way to fight back is bad gameplay.

grave veldt
#

yea that whats i meant

wintry mountain
#

I'm all for deino grabbing things like stego, just these bigger animals need to provide more of a challenge when doing so

grave veldt
#

^

#

rn deino can lunge the stego n bypass the stun on itself by using alt bite

#

becuz it takes 4 bites to the head to kill a stego those 1-2 bites r a massive advantage

wintry mountain
#

Indeed

grave veldt
#

after that the deino can just tank the shots as it uses alt bite to chomp the stegos head thru its ass cuz collision is bad

wintry mountain
#

Deino has very much become a water Rex as opposed to a big alligator

grave veldt
#

unfortunately

sudden orbit
#

When I played a deino, I once killed a 60% steg by dragging it and drowning it. Imagine him losing more than 2.5 hours, sucks. Plus I think a stego only goes over 4 tons around 78% grown. Which has them vulnerable for a very long tim

#

time*

grave veldt
#

the deino bypassing it with alt bite seems to be unintended

golden coral
#

That should be able to be fixed with stat changes and collision fixes. To change a bit on how the matchups work.

grave veldt
#

hopefully that gets fixed

#

collison rly needs work

wintry mountain
#

If you get stunned your stunned in my book

grave veldt
#

it can change how the game works

golden coral
#

And the alt bite thing for deino sounds like some sort of "bug", kind of like stego thagomizer "bug"

sudden orbit
#

Yeah colission is wonky. I have flown through entire enemies as utah with the pounce. Just straight through and nothing

grave veldt
#

yea im pretty sure thats unintended

#

just like utah dying to stegos after dismounting

#

because of the locational dmg changes

#

unintentional but oh well as long as these things get fixed

sudden orbit
#

One can hope

#

and hey happylion

grave veldt
#

ello

languid frost
#

@sudden orbit I just can say awesome work and directly to what it's happening rn, utah isn't balanced at all when a whole pack should be able to kill anything, not to mention the nonexistent chance to fight 1v1 except tenos, no matter the skills of players

golden coral
#

What should a utah be fighting 1v1? Or what do you mean?

sudden orbit
#

A whole pack shouldn't be able to kill literally anything, but it should have a shot with the right tactics and skillful play.

#

I am unsure what he entirely means but I think I am doing good work by writing up the document?

golden coral
#

I mean, a full pack of 8 should be able to take pretty much everything that is solo, and some things in pairs/trios and so on, depending on what it is. Excepting deino maybe cause well, it goes into water.

#

Yeah, I got the first part :p It's the "no chance to fight 1v1 no matter the skill", cause well, most things in the game aren't really designed to be a good fight for a solo utah, as it stands.

sudden orbit
#

Oh yeah solo, definitely. I just said they shouldnt be able to take on anything because I also thought about full packs of other things etc. A land dinosuchus should be a valid target maybe

opaque yoke
sudden orbit
#

At least in the current roster. I am not saying that a t rex should be huntable by a pack of utahs

#

Really ghost spore? I played a stegosaur and I encounted a whole pack of 8 utahs. I was stuck in a palm tree and couldn't move and I still killed 5 of them before dying. And I wasn't able to move

#

Stego is pretty beastly

#

The kickback kill you 100% too if the stego knows about it

opaque yoke
#

It's strong, but if the Utahs don't throw themselves at it haphazardly its easy to bait out the tail swings imo, I've even soloed particularly bad stego players

sudden orbit
#

Well with the desync its pretty impossible. ive done 1v1 fights versus a stego when we were testing things

#

I would get killed from like 20 feet away

opaque yoke
#

Don't know when you tested it, but last patch made stego swings take more stam, and I actually think they could use a bit of a buff there

sudden orbit
#

I bait out a tail swing, do an attack, run away and die ages away

opaque yoke
#

Desync is the bane of Utah existence

#

For sure

sudden orbit
#

I don't mind their tail swings getting buffed at all, just allow utahs to pounce without doing the stupid stop walk thing which is a guaranteed death sentence

alpine plover
#

^

#

Utah's should not be punished for playing the game correctly and using the mechanics with skill

#

Stego can get buffed/more stam any which way

opaque yoke
#

Definitely agree there, posted something similar in feed back yesterday

sudden orbit
#

Yeah like I don't mind stegos being a tough battle, but you shouldn't be hard coded to fail as a utah by having the shitty kickback. The desync is a huge issue too. Heck they could even give the stego another type of attack that could be helpful, like an alt swing for all i care lol. Just don't punish utahs for just playing is all I really want

alpine plover
#

I'm in favour of fights being harder for Utah's

sudden orbit
#

Well. not right now, as fights can be impossible for utahs right now

alpine plover
#

Makes the matchups more balanced and weeds out the skilled players from the weaker ones

sudden orbit
#

With desync and the way pounce works, you will lose most members of a pack to kill anything

alpine plover
#

But it should always be fair

sudden orbit
#

Yes

#

fair but hard is the way to go

alpine plover
#

I hope they fix this in the next patch

#

Stegos remaining unchallenged shouldn't stay too long
It makes them boring to play, and a boring playable to interact with

sudden orbit
#

We will see. I know a lot of people have been complaining about the current situation of utah

#

like you can find many posts such as mine, I just wanted to add to the pile here and there

#

So let's see if they listen

#

@dim crown Already planned. Additional juvenile slots in packs that get kicked out at a certain age. devs confirmed it

dim crown
#

Thanks bud

sudden orbit
#

np

spare badger
sudden orbit
#

Yeah well it still kills you though

proper zephyr
#

desync is kinda the thing that fucks balance rn
if utah didnt have to walk when it dismounted a pounce or it landed further away, that'd prolly be a good fix

fathom obsidian
#

ppl suggesting stam cost to jump further after pounce are crazy, pounce cost an insane amount of stam, and buck drains it all in 3 sec flat

#

you shouldnt be penalized to land a succesful pounce.

ripe zinc
#

wym stego is unchallenged. it's actually weak against carnos and utahs with patience

fathom obsidian
#

we got some quality feedback on the last post TI_OOF

fathom obsidian
ripe zinc
#

Deino damage is fine.

alpine plover
#

@alpine plover thats dumb, why would deino get stronger because its in water?

proper zephyr
#

Deino is pretty fine as is rn

sinful cove
#

buffing or nerfing damage in certain biomes/times is so artificial and just a lazy way to balance things

#

deino doesnt need a stronger bite in or out of water atm

granite gate
#

^ it can literally essentially one shot everything on the roster -1

sinful cove
#

It can oneshot everything except stego who it can stun with lunge for 2 free bites and headshot it through its ass

#

Deino doesnt need help more than anyone else

hollow canyon
#

Deino needs the least help out of the entire roster

vale harness
#

ayo i thought they fixed this. but can the carno spam bite even when its stunned or is that patched??

hollow canyon
#

I've found myself unable to bite while stunned when I was testing Carno vs Tenonto lately.

#

I've heard from other people that Carno can bite but so far I haven't seen a proof of that and I wasn't able to do it myself while stunned.

vale harness
#

yea i was looking back at some videos and like 30% of the time the carno is biting while stunned, and the other times it cant. also it seems like when utahs get knocked off by trees its also like a 50/50 whether they'll get stunned or not. wierd

halcyon slate
#

i don't play deino but i think they are not where they should be

halcyon slate
#

they could get a dmg buff but a nerf in the alt bit radius

sinful cove
#

Why do they need a damage buff

fathom obsidian
#

deino is fine, alt bite should be slower or cost stam, rn its faster than normal bites

sinful cove
#

They can grab most of the roster and oneshot them with drown

#

They kill stego in what was it, 4 headshots? Correct me if im wrong

#

And they can headshot stego through his ass

halcyon slate
#

i play stego

#

not deino

sinful cove
#

Deino doesnt need a buff either way, at least not now

halcyon slate
#

i play carno and raptor too and the headshot trough my ass never happenned

#

it need to be changed to be only efficient in intended area

#

ok i have seen alot of deino player complaining about his damage and alot of land animal player complaining about his mobility on land and the absurdity of the croc having the advantage on land because of his alt bite that give him a better mobility in fight then any land animal (I am one of them). And I saw a lot stego just fishing with deino all day just waiting on the shore tail ready (take in note that i don't play croc).
so here is some information related to my opinion
stego tail dmg 1k hp around 5k 8 hit to kill deino
deino bite dmg 500 hp 8k 10 hit to kill stego

i think the stego is fine has it is because he is slow has fu and it can heavily backfire to attack a stego near his tail wish is logical (don't fking do that)
i think that the damage of the deino could be buffed slightly to about 550-625 at max (wish would be more accurate with what we know about the species) and also buff the distance of how far they can charge out of the water a bit so they can take the stego from a different angle and still give an chance to the stego to win.
BUT you nerf the fucking 180 degree bite to not go 2/3 of where it goes rn so land specialised animal can destroy them on land with an actual fight because of the mobility advantage and then *I will stop seeing croc travelling and climbing like stupid mountain goat without risking anything.

#

my opinion is this

#

i hate croc

sinful cove
#

Stego fishing for deinos only works on braindead deinos now since the hitbox changes in the recent patch

#

Deino is not struggling

fathom obsidian
#

not even close to struggling id say its plenty strong

sinful cove
#

Not reading that wall of text though too lazy

fathom obsidian
#

they can even win vs stegos now

sinful cove
#

Deino has a good shot against everything now even on the shore where it shouldnt be fighting

halcyon slate
#

idc if they deal more damage if it make deino player happy but i want them to leave the mountain/plai/forest

fathom obsidian
#

just lounge and spam alt bite trhu his body and get free headshots

sinful cove
#

They shouldn’t deal more damage, of course it would make deino mains happy but anyone would be happy to have their main buffed

#

It doesnt need it at all

fathom obsidian
#

i dont get why so many players are so vocal about deino dmg, so stupid

halcyon slate
#

i think they can be but they will need a mobility nerf in consequence so i can punish them on land

sinful cove
#

Or just dont buff their damage at all, why bother if it's just going to be offset by a nerf in another department? It doesnt need more damage

#

It shouldnt be encouraged to kill with spam bite instead of its special

halcyon slate
#

because they are ambush predator they are gonna be more specialised in that 'only'

sinful cove
#

They have a special ability for ambush, they don't need more damage

halcyon slate
#

boosting damage won't impact you if you fight them on land with a mobility nerf

fathom obsidian
#

you really want that dmg buff for a guy who "hates croc"

sinful cove
#

It is an unnecessary change

#

If it “wouldn't change anything” why do it?

hollow canyon
#

Deino absolutely doesn't need more damage.

sinful cove
#

Deino players shouldnt be encouraged to spam lmb like some dumb legacy rex and those who do this deserve to die and open a server slot for a more competent player

halcyon slate
hollow canyon
#

Changing it so that it deals more damage while having more of an issue to actually apply that damage is a bad idea. Stego is done exactly in that manner and it's a pretty bad animal precisely because of that - it has the damage alright - it outdamages a Deino yet it's still a really meh pick because it can hardly ever deal that damage.

halcyon slate
#

i don't agree i play stego and stego is strong but i do avoid carno in open area

fathom obsidian
sinful cove
#

Carno shouldnt even be a problem for stego and the fact that you feel the need to avoid it shows that stego is the one that needs help, not deino

#

Deino out there oneshottin most if the roster with a well made special ability and needs no damage buffs to encourage braindead lmb spam hunting

halcyon slate
#

they can't aim for the head when there is tree i never got problem in a fight if a am stego

#

and tbh idc getting one shot if i do a mistakes but i want to destroy deino on land if i play correctly with a better agility

fathom obsidian
hollow canyon
#

If Deino got more biteforce it would be very likely outright stomping a Stego.

fathom obsidian
#

on land, wich is absurd

halcyon slate
#

i said that they could like it won't bother me not that they should

#

i want them to be efficient only in there intended area

sinful cove
#

And they are

hollow canyon
#

They are efficient in those intended areas

sinful cove
#

Without an unnecessary buff

halcyon slate
#

no they are not they dominate on land

hollow canyon
#

They dominate even harder in the water

sinful cove
#

And buffing their bite would fix that?

#

Just reduce their land stam if thats an issue, no need to affect its bite

halcyon slate
#

you don,t get my point

sinful cove
#

Then do explain yourself, since we aren't understandinf apparently

halcyon slate
#

the damage they do is not a problem to me i think that if you yell nerf deino in balance thing to many player play deino so it won't pass but to me we can give him what he could(slight buff maybe like 10-15%) have but nerf what they should nerf so everybody is happy and we actually get something less absurd

fathom obsidian
#

so you would give in to those vocal deino main, undestood, bad design

granite gate
#

a one-shot drown ability is more than enough. deinos are NOT meant to be apex killers, they’re meant to take down midtiers, and they do that insanely well atm

sinful cove
#

They shouldnt make unnecessary compensations just to please the base playing that dino

hollow canyon
#

Why do you want to buff its damage? I'm genuinely failing to see the reasoning behind that.

sinful cove
#

If it is not functioning correctly they should fix it

hollow canyon
#

Deino is fine-ish. The only thing I'd change about it is perhaps make it go on land more instead of being untouchable in the water 24/7

granite gate
#

no

#

its an aquatic

halcyon slate
hollow canyon
#

Because as of now it can just get back into water whenever it messes up and it's just stupid. It's literally the only animal capable of doing that.

sinful cove
#

It doesnt need to be forced out of the water more, but it should be utter trash on land

granite gate
#

just dont make it op on land like it is rn with its stamless alt bite

sinful cove
#

Which atm, it is okay on land and that's better than it should be

granite gate
#

^

halcyon slate
#

this is the problem since the beginning i want them away from stupid area

hollow canyon
#

So? It's a semi-aquatic. Real crocodiles have to bask in sun to remain active so as to avoid their body temperature going down.

#

Yet our Deino can do everything just fine in the water. It never has to leave it making it invulnerable.

granite gate
#

eh i think it’ll be more balanced once semi-aquatics get added in. they could chase deinos anywhere

#

but that is fair ig

hollow canyon
#

What semi aquatics? A goddamn Bary, an Austro?

granite gate
#

spinos?

halcyon slate
#

at mythbuster they tried to provoke a crocodile attack out of water and they discovered that croc don't attack on land btw

sinful cove
#

Well idk i guess spino on like 2 years lol

halcyon slate
#

soooo

hollow canyon
#

Spino is pretty much the only thing that can threaten it and it's not coming for the next year.

fathom obsidian
#

like spino, if we gonna see spino on land after the recent discoveries im gonna be mad lol

sinful cove
#

Sucho and bary would trim the young deino population

hollow canyon
#

"Spino" - literally the only apex out of all of them whilst we know apexes aren't coming anytime soon.

#

If Spino makes it into the game within the next 12 months I will be genuinely impressed.

sinful cove
#

If droughts and floods are still planned deino may have to migrate sometimes too

halcyon slate
#

deino that migrate should be a vulnerable moment

hollow canyon
#

It should have to migrate but unforunately it doesn't have to because all the water is connected

lament cloak
sinful cove
#

Still rivers would be more shallow in a drought

hollow canyon
#

I'd be perfectly fine with that - I disagree with that whole smalls first notion since the very beginning.

halcyon slate
#

they should have a place where they are highly proficient and place where it is the opposite land / water so if they travel on land be ready to be as in danger as when we drink in deep water

fathom obsidian
#

@tepid lily you can bite em if they pounce on your face mid animation, you get a free bite out of it

halcyon slate
#

this is my point since the beginning i am tired of deino that play like mountain goat

hollow canyon
#

I'm perfectly fine with Deino being capable of defending itself on land as it does now however I want it to actually have to be on land rather than running back into water if anything happens.

#

There's just nothing that threatens this playable aside from other Deinos.

grave veldt
#

actually collision in general isnt too good from what ive seen so

hollow canyon
#

Collisions are a meme in the game overall, I'm not surprised they are the way they are on Deinosuchus.

halcyon slate
#

croc never attack on land irl

#

never

#

you have to kick him in the face to provoke something

#

irl croc only attack near water

#

otherwise they show there teeth that it

fathom obsidian
grave veldt
#

collision is a big factor in fights

#

rly hope they fix it

tepid lily
fathom obsidian
#

you are a carno if you have trouble killing a utah i have bad news

#

since 1 bite to utah is atleast 1/3 of his hp, a pounce on a carno literally does almost no dmg, since you can buck it in less than 2 sec

dim crown
#

Gotta love a good challenge TI_Yay

hollow canyon
#

Utahs don't do more damage with a pounce, they just apply a lot of bleed with it

#

One Carno bite will do more damage unless perhaps if you allow Utah to just pounce you the whole time without going for a tree/bucking.

fathom obsidian
hollow canyon
#

Not sure if anyone replied to @zenith vessel 's point about Utah's pouncing him but it's a bug - sometimes when a Utah pounces you it clips into your model or something and that causes your animal to start walking. I've had it happen on two occasions once during update 2 and once like a week ago.

#

You can't really run or trot during that time, it's just a weird bug, it happens very rarely though so the QA might've missed it.

fathom obsidian
#

sounds like a bug yeah

hollow canyon
#

It is a bug, just a very rare one. Considering most of my time in the game since update 2 dropped in late November was spent as Carno fighting Utahs and I had it happen just twice throughout that whole time despite being pounced on multiple occasions I'd consider it really, really rare so it might be quite hard to track down and fix.

brittle dirge
# halcyon slate croc never attack on land irl

ik im mad late to this but that is just incorrect as crocs irl will not hesitate to chase away a potential threat, or in the case of something like a cuban that is built to be more terrestrial, chase down a potential prey item if need be. In the context of Deino in game im fine with it being able to stand its ground on land and not be totally defenseless but I will agree with others that the only change it "needs" is a stam drain on the alt bite so it can't just spin in place and basically be untouchable. other than that its basically fine atm imo

alpine plover
#

@silver wigeon

that idea is heavily carni favored, so no.

vagrant mural
#

Not even that it’s carni favored, it’s just you can achieve all the same things by pressing shift or z

silver wigeon
#

Animations have a tendency to be extremely delayed. The quick button could quickly cut out an animation and cause you to drop everything and quickly flee with a stamina chunk being spent

old hull
#

someone actually asked for more fish in the water

#

pls stop my brain cant handle the stupidity

plucky holly
#

hahahahaahah

ripe zinc
#

No need for hunger to drop faster in big groups, as the need for food increases proportionally to group size automatically. That said there is too much food atm, so I agree there should be less of it to make massive groups less viable

#

@reef bluff have a grown deino kill it

reef bluff
ripe zinc
#

no, you don't

#

one is enough

reef bluff
ripe zinc
#

at least until they fix deino's alt bite

#

although increasing the stego's food intake to properly simulate a 6 ton herbivore would keep it from spending it's days fishing

reef bluff
#

plus cant get to full if one keeps getting killed by stegos and tenos

ripe zinc
#

you can spawn elsewhere though, that is the only place a pack of land lubbers can box you in in the first place

reef bluff
#

yet its one place that you dont have to worry to much about other deinos killing you

ripe zinc
#

take away land dinos harassing you at that spot and it won't be, lol. Sounds more like a typical deino player behaviour problem

#

The main reason I can't be bothered to ever play deino is other deinos, so I feel you on that last point for sure.

reef bluff
#

and the pic is a typical stego player behaviour problem because they know most single deino players cant take them

ripe zinc
#

true, I already suggested one way to discourage it though, what do you think of a heavy increase to the stego's appetite?

#

I mean, unless you want baby deinos to faceroll a grown stego I don't see how it's a pure combat balance issue

reef bluff
#

that doesnt stop them from swapping out like they do when they get hurt and we had a bigger deino there but keep in mind 3 full stego where there and the bigger deino was not full

ripe zinc
#

Ideally 3 full stegos shouldn't be able to stay in one area for long without eating all the available bushes, making them have to either graze or move around for food.

dim crown
#

WIP

#

It needs good feedback.

hollow canyon
#

A single Deino can very much kill a Stego 1v1 on the current patch. As for not getting to full adult due to dying to Stegos and Tenontos - I genuinely have no idea how that's even possible unless you outright lose connection or suicide into them.

#

The only threat to a small Deinosuchus is a larger Deinosuchus. If you're dying to anything else you're doing something very, very wrong(then again the fact that you're swimming around the southern spawn point kind of says it all).

old hull
#

pretty much yeah

#

the only threat to a full adult deinosuchus is other deinosuchus or your own stupidity

#

and the fact that they are so damn easy to grow , its not surprising there are so damn many of them

zenith vessel
hollow canyon
#

It kinds of needs both.

zenith vessel
#

well it already does good damage and good bleed

hollow canyon
#

It does very little damage. It only does good bleed but most of the time it won't get to stack it up before it runs out of stamina/has to disengage.

ripe zinc
#

Anyone big getting pounced by a utah gets a free hit when the utah jumps off, that needs to change

lament cloak
#

@harsh whale first of all, it doesn't matter if carno could do a charge or not irl, its a game. second of all carno can turn on a dime, its skidding. its just its acceleration isnt very good, if you give it a special mechanic to be very agile you take away the only downside to carno and that is bad agility

vagrant mural
#

Nerf carno accel, especially on the drift

dim crown
#

Saying this, imo, its ok 4 now, it needs testing, ofc , its just another WIP.

ripe zinc
#

It's useless against a competent opponent, how is that ok?

dim crown
#

What could change ez, is dumb pouncing stop, that needs 2 change.

dim crown
ripe zinc
dim crown
#

Seems to me, that you, are the useless here, me sry, nothing personal.

dim crown
#

Btw, theres always a right way to do things and than theres the rest......

lament cloak
#

it seems that alot of people are underestimating utahs pounce because i can just get killed when I jump off but utah pounce is meant to be high risk high reward. and I have seen plenty of people get multiple pounces off unscathed, you should probably jump off before someone hits you on a tree or you run out of stamina

errant plinth
#

man their are suddenly alot of shit takes in the balance feedback

alpine plover
#

It seems to me utah mains were just staying on until all of their stam ran out

fathom obsidian
#

Raptor pounce is not in a good spot atm, its not even high risk high reward, currently its high risk low reward for a couple of reasons:

Bucking is too good right now and after 1.5 sec you HAVE let go and you still less than half stam. also in that 1.5s timeframe you apply very little bleed damage.

Utah get a dismount penalty after a succesful pounce wich is dumb and combined with the point above means you get outdamaged most of the time or straight up oneshotted depends on the dino opponent

Regarding tree collisions/pounce misses/utah run out of stam thats good, Raptors need to be punished in these situations

Pounce in a weird spot atm and needs fixes, not buffs

alpine plover
fathom obsidian
#

sure

#

when you kill raptor stam in 3 sec and you still 95% stam ist not fine

alpine plover
#

you're a 500 kg raptor

fathom obsidian
#

if by fine you mean OP sure its fine

alpine plover
#

against a 6 ton beast

fathom obsidian
#

its a game

alpine plover
#

Utah shoud be at a disadvantage

fathom obsidian
#

you know balancing

alpine plover
#

ok and?

#

I'm saying how it is now is balanced

fathom obsidian
#

its not

alpine plover
#

It is

#

Of course utah isnt going to have a fair even fight with big things

silent comet
#

its a game there should be balance, every class should be enjoyable to play and there shouldnt be a OP counter to one class, sure there should be counters but they shouldnt be just too good against said class

fathom obsidian
#

ok nice logic, next

slim dragon
#

Isn't it normal for stego to be able to easily buck off utahs tho ?

alpine plover
alpine plover
slim dragon
#

Utahs are supposed to go on packs when hunting stegos

fathom obsidian
#

i agree

slim dragon
#

And stegos shouldn't rely on a tree to beat them

fathom obsidian
#

but utahs dont want ez kills, utah is fun bc its challenging

#

and should remain so

alpine plover
#

So whats the issue with bucking

fathom obsidian
#

getting oneshotted after a succesfull pounce is not fun at all

proper zephyr
#

^

fathom obsidian
#

when you do everything ocrrectly

alpine plover
silent comet
#

and if u patient then u can kill stego in the open as utah even in a 1v1, u just dont pounce it atm, hopefully the pounce will get fixed soon

fathom obsidian
#

it is against a decent stego

alpine plover
fathom obsidian
#

a decent stego will always oneshot you the moment you release your pounce

proper zephyr
#

just have the pounce launch you further away from the stego or fix the landing stuff

alpine plover
#

also jump off before you un out of stam

alpine plover
fathom obsidian
#

nice thumb down

#

😄

alpine plover
#

?

lament cloak
silent comet
fathom obsidian
#

you guys did 0 testing if you think pounce is fine lmao

alpine plover
#

Pounce is fine atm

fathom obsidian
#

keep hating on raptors blindly

alpine plover
#

just jump off before you run out of stam

fathom obsidian
#

i jump off before running out of stam

#

and i get outdamaged almost everytime

lament cloak
fathom obsidian
#

bc you get a weird stuck in mid air thing

lament cloak
#

pretty good stegos may I add

alpine plover
#

not damage it

#

You're in a pack of 8 for a reason

fathom obsidian
#

a pretty good stego would oneshot a raptor manually dismounting every time they pounce

#

or even mid pounce jump animation

#

the latter is fine

alpine plover
#

watching a video rn, utah has plenty of time to escape

lament cloak
#

people dont have that kind of reactions, you have to predict a release is coming to do that

fathom obsidian
#

ok wanna log on my test server and ill oneshot you everytime you dismount?

#

i can prove decent stegos can do that

fathom obsidian
#

you are the bad player if you dont even know these scenarios

silent comet
alpine plover
fathom obsidian
#

ist not hard

alpine plover
#

Just hop off before he finishes the buck

fathom obsidian
#

too bad you can tail strike or attack even when buck animation, see you dont know shit

#

and you still talking

alpine plover
fathom obsidian
#

ok dud

alpine plover
#

he predicted you choosing to jump off

#

and you died

#

seems fair to me

silent comet
alpine plover
#

You can also use your 8 packmates to overwhelm the stego

fathom obsidian
#

go read it all again and see how stupid you sound dio

alpine plover
#

it's almost like utah has a pack for a reason

fathom obsidian
#

you dont know half of the game mechanics and you still talking

alpine plover
#

If your pack is letting the stego focus on one utah they're bad packmates

#

no reason why the other utahs cant go in for headshots/pounces

#

Just play utah smart

fathom obsidian
#

say the guy who dont even know the game

#

jUsT PlAy SmarT

silent comet
fathom obsidian
#

i swear they need to make a game knowledge test before being able to post balance feedback to avoid timmies like you having a bad take

alpine plover
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Well I'm just explaining how you can avoid the issue

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you guys cant seem to counter that besides "dio you're stupid, a moron, and dont know half of the mechanics"

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pretty childish

fathom obsidian
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you dont know the game there is nothing to counter you should just not talk