balance-feedback-discussion

[alpine plover]

yeah

[golden coral]

Remember that there'll be things between tenno and rex

[grave veldt]

it is honestly

u use sum stam and u dismount completely saf

e

[frosty heron]

No as it should be like that

[wheat field]

Massive fix and balance tbh

[frosty heron]

This

[grave veldt]

thats literally why were suggesting to fix it

[sinful cove]

Oh also utah pounce shouldn’t be socketed, hopefully they fix it in the future so you can’t pounce on someone’s face and get teleported to their side by the handholding isle gods

[golden coral]

Like, maia/para, allo, other ceratopsids like diablo, styraco. And so on. Maybe that's about where utahs would normally hunt, with apexes being the "full pack boss fight" style.

[alpine plover]

Disagree

[grave veldt]

the isle

[alpine plover]

Even things like allo should be a boss fight

Styraco? Yeah thats a boss fight

[grave veldt]

allo is like one of those elite enemies that have a super high level

[golden coral]

Nah, not really. Allo is in the middle. It's not comparable to a giga or rex or maybe even acro.

[frosty heron]

Herbie mains surprise me everyday honestly

[golden coral]

Same with styraco vs trike I think.

[wheat field]

Allo vs Utah, Utah prob gets destroyed because Allo is similar in speed has higher DPS and more health

[grave veldt]

i can 3-4 utahs killing an allo

[alpine plover]

and?

Utah is on the very low end

[golden coral]

How so? :p

Yes but utah is designed to hunt bigger game in packs

It's just that "bigger game" is a very broad term

[wheat field]

The pounce puts it in near Midtier capabilities tho

[crystal wharf]

dont engage erik, he wants utah to be an apex that takes an hour to grow

[alpine plover]

Bigger game is things allo sized and up, hell even teno..

[golden coral]

People tend to take utah hunting big stuff in packs as utah hunting rexes, where that's probably one of the last things you'd hunt. But there's a whole "midtier" roster in between there.

[wheat field]

What is tenos weight btw

[golden coral]

Nah, tenno is small.

[frosty heron]

With I have been reading they want their dinos to be a "No no fuck off don't hunt me I can fuck your entire pack easily"

[alpine plover]

so give utah mid tier growth, 3 hour growth utah when?

[golden coral]

It's just a very feisty critter for it's size.

[grave veldt]

ur perception is wrong tho

[golden coral]

But tenno can not be considered "big game" by any means, I don't think.

[wheat field]

Im saying thr pounce is what makes utah so good...

[alpine plover]

But its still a small tier

It isnt some apex

[frosty heron]

It is literally what most people here is saying

[grave veldt]

no

[frosty heron]

Indirectly or not

[alpine plover]

You wouldnt say a herd of 6 pachys should be able to hunt a rex right? It's stupid

[grave veldt]

we suggesting to literally help utah

not nerf it lol

[alpine plover]

same goes for utah

[wheat field]

I mean its possible with fractures 😂

[crystal wharf]

isnt this about giving utah an ability that makes its pounce more useful? and with that also having raptors need to use that walnut brain of theirs to realize that jumping on the spikes of a stego is a bad idea

[alpine plover]

source?

[golden coral]

I would imagine it's because the only two proper herbivores we have are both far from ideal utah prey. Tenno is designed to be a hell of a fighter, and dangerous cause of that. And stego is well, a stego, it should be a no go animal really. But there's a whole host of things inbetween you know, on both carni and herbi side. It's like .. I don't know what comparable to tenno might be, cerato (at least I know some people want a feisty cerato), or carno, all the way up to rex. You got a bunch in between you can hunt that would be "big game" too, in the future.

[alpine plover]

hopefully fractures dont work like that

[frosty heron]

How knows maybe a Pachy breaks your tibia and you're movement fucked lmao

[wheat field]

I mean like they just slow the shit outta him and ride him...

[alpine plover]

if they do thats a bit worrying

[wheat field]

Cause fractures are slows are they not

[alpine plover]

assriding? evrima?

[crystal wharf]

locational with varying affects is what they are, not just legbreak, and you'll still be able to turn

[wheat field]

Assriding will always be a thing weither you like it or not

[wheat field]

Preciate it

[alpine plover]

it isnt a thing

[grave veldt]

its not rly ass riding its ass biting

[crystal wharf]

only if they are braindead, because you can turn on a dime

[golden coral]

The issue right now is that most of the herbis we have are fighters, and thus not really ideal utah prey. Or rather, fighters that are good at (or should be) handling themselves in a fight. Pachy is another one of those. Both Pachy and Tenno are fighters.

[wheat field]

Lot of people are brain dead stegos i guess

[alpine plover]

stego doesnt take tail damage

[grave veldt]

pachy teno and stego r all herbis meant to fight

[frosty heron]

But bet people will say Pachy should body Utahs

[golden coral]

If they do maia and others right, that's where your utahs would shine, you'd get one or two utahs on it, slow it down, force it to use more stamina to run or buck, and it's not dangerous in the same way, so you can harass it to death + keep pouncing.

[crystal wharf]

if you manage to ass ride a stego and live, im 99% sure that stego was afk

[golden coral]

@frosty heronYes. Because again, it's designed for that.

[wheat field]

It takes the highest multiplier if you are close enough

[alpine plover]

outdated

[grave veldt]

it should tbh

[wheat field]

Not outdated

[frosty heron]

And now there's no weight excuse

[alpine plover]

that got fixed ages ago

[golden coral]

I'd say the issue here is that most of the herbis we have are fighters, not runners. And the figthers we have are not the ones that are "open" to a utah pounce very easily.

[wheat field]

This was recently implemented

[alpine plover]

what do you mean?

[crystal wharf]

it doesnt need an excuse because one is angry goat with a wrecking ball on its head and the other is a reptilian cat

[alpine plover]

Stego doesnt take tail damage

[wheat field]

Look at DevLog patch

[grave veldt]

pachy should take negative locational dmg on its head

[frosty heron]

Reptilian cat with a big ass cutting knife in his paw

[wheat field]

It doesn’t but if you bite the tail of a stego but you happen to also be within biting range of its body it will take normal dmg

[crystal wharf]

still just a reptilian cat

[alpine plover]

Oh that?

[frosty heron]

That's your vision of it

Not mine

[crystal wharf]

not just my vision

[alpine plover]

............... whats your vision of utah?

[crystal wharf]

utah is gonna struggle 1v1 against a pachy

[frosty heron]

Like to underpower the Utah just because "Hate from Legacy"

[wheat field]

Hyena

[alpine plover]

agreed

utah is faster, WAY faster

and isnt nearly as bulky as pachy

[wheat field]

Pachy reduced skull locational dmg when?

[alpine plover]

and pachy has a much more damaging way of attack then utah

[grave veldt]

this ^

[crystal wharf]

no, pachy, tenonto, and stego are made to fight and basically hard counter utahs main gimmick for hunting

[alpine plover]

and did I mention pachy will probably take little damage to the head? Taking away utahs main way of dealing damage?

[frosty heron]

And what Dino wouldn't be then!

[grave veldt]

maia

[alpine plover]

yeah pachy would have to be weak as shit for utah to have a fair 1v1 against it

[wheat field]

Brain dead paras

[alpine plover]

things like maia and para,

utah shouldnt be hunting apexes

thats stupid

and looks stupid

[crystal wharf]

maia, para, magy, diablo, cerato, carno, shant, trike, ava

[wheat field]

Shant and trike my ass

[frosty heron]

Diablo will fuck Utahs

[alpine plover]

If a apex player has a brain and is decent at the game, it should win a LOT MORE then a pack of utahs

[grave veldt]

diablo trike idk

[crystal wharf]

probably easier than stego for utah to pounce

[alpine plover]

not when 8 of them are pouncing you and doing bleed

endurance hunt, play smart.

[wheat field]

Trike is slow so I can see it, shant is iffy but Diablo is a speed trike so nah

[alpine plover]

what?

[grave veldt]

?

[alpine plover]

Why does speed matter

[grave veldt]

nah

lol

[alpine plover]

utah is faster then ALL OF THEM

[grave veldt]

shant is easier honestly

[wheat field]

Turning capabilities

[alpine plover]

Why would trike have a shit turn?

[grave veldt]

we actually saw trikes turn

[thin herald]

I can see Shants buck take utahs stam in an instant tbh

[grave veldt]

plus not to mention trample dmg and also its godly hp pool

[crystal wharf]

true, but so does stegos

[thin herald]

Yea

[golden coral]

Difference is, shant isnt as good at capitalizing on it

Or shouldnt be

Stego should have the proper main anti-flank, thus being bad for pouncing since you're on it's sides

Whereas shant is a bigger and more "open" target, even if it requires a bunch of pounces as well

[grave veldt]

shant while very large and massive

[alpine plover]

Utah shouldnt be hunting apexes anyways

[golden coral]

Thats why trikes would be weaker to faster/smaller things vs stego

[grave veldt]

doesnt have any actual notable weapons

[golden coral]

Yes, trike is terrifying, but it's more "accessible" in a way to a utah pack

[crystal wharf]

shant is the weapon

[alpine plover]

Utah should hunt what makes sense for it to hunt

[golden coral]

Vs stego/anky with it's sweeps

[crystal wharf]

shants entire body is a weapon

[grave veldt]

anky should low key just not be pounceable

[crystal wharf]

14 tons of hadrosaurid anger

[wheat field]

I wanna see a anky get flipped like a damn turtle

[thin herald]

I can see Shant being one of Utahs preferred diets.

[frosty heron]

Stego has shit turn lol

[golden coral]

Yeah, shant terrifying for something it can hit :p

[grave veldt]

so?

[thin herald]

Yup

[alpine plover]

is stego trike?

[wheat field]

Keyword “can hit”

[alpine plover]

Like are they related?

[golden coral]

Stego needs better turn :p Apparently they could turn really good irl :p

[alpine plover]

I never knew

[frosty heron]

No. But Trike weights more so it kinda gonna have slow turn

[thin herald]

Trample damage will exist

[alpine plover]

that isnt how it works

[grave veldt]

stego only turns slow because of its weapon

[alpine plover]

like weight has nothing to do with turning radius

[golden coral]

Yes. Did I say otherwise? :p

[grave veldt]

ita tail is flexible and can almost reach the front of the body

[crystal wharf]

i can see shant having a massive aoe tail attack in addition to a headbutt and stomp

[grave veldt]

thats why it doesnt have a super speedy turn

[frosty heron]

It does, tell me which heavier Dino than Utah/Dryo turns faster than themb

It's a thing in the game that heavier you are, slower your turn is

[alpine plover]

Why do they matter? Those are literally the fastest turners in the game

[golden coral]

@grave veldtApparently stego could do some sort of "twist/turn" for real, or so I've heard. No idea if it's true or not. Like just raise up and turn the entire body sort of.

[wheat field]

Shant gonna tip over if he tries to slam or shake the tail that is attached to their spine

[alpine plover]

Of course things are slower compared to them, they're the best at it

[grave veldt]

i actually heard they had a 180 turn for stego but got rid of it

[alpine plover]

this is like telling someone who beat you in race that they're slow because usian bolt is faster

You can be good without being the best

[crystal wharf]

what

[wheat field]

It was too brain dead broken cause nothing could hit it cause of the turn

[grave veldt]

yea i see why they scrapped it

[alpine plover]

We dont know that

[wheat field]

Why would shant get an AOE tail attack

[grave veldt]

this just isnt true

[crystal wharf]

because it has a massive tail

[grave veldt]

hypsi turns slower then utah

and is way smaller

[alpine plover]

Have you seen shants tail?

That shit is not used for "aoe"

Its stiff

[frosty heron]

? For me it was the same

[thin herald]

Trikes turn 90 degree turn was fairly quick

[wheat field]

Ok, but is shant built in the slightest way for tail slams?

[alpine plover]

it might

[grave veldt]

its slower

[crystal wharf]

did i say slam?

[wheat field]

Tail whacks

[alpine plover]

a tail attack for shant doesnt make sense

it has a STIFF tail

[wheat field]

Exactly

[wheat field]

^^^^^^^

[crystal wharf]

so does tenonto

[thin herald]

Tail attacks for creatures that dont have any weapons on said tail doesnt make sense.

[wheat field]

But but no

[alpine plover]

they fictionized tenos tail

shants tail looks the exact same like it did irl

[grave veldt]

u cant have weapons on both back and front that r strong

[wheat field]

Because of how long they made tenos tail they could just have free roam with the abilities

[alpine plover]

Shants tail is too short and too stiff and big to use a tail attack

like just look at it

[crystal wharf]

are you aware of tenonto and the entire concept of sauropods?

[alpine plover]

shants and tenos tail rent comparable

[wheat field]

Mofo gonna break its spine tryna do a tail attack

[grave veldt]

looks pretty stiff to me

[crystal wharf]

i wouldnt call this thing short

[wheat ridge]

he thicc boiiii

[wheat field]

What tail does this thing have to work with????

[alpine plover]

bork what are you smoking

[crystal wharf]

also, i never said tail slam, ever, no fucking clue where you got tail slam from

[alpine plover]

Common sense should tell you that it cant use its tail to attack

[wheat field]

Tail whack

[alpine plover]

the fuck is it going to use its tail for?

[thin herald]

Had to do something. The exceptions to that are teno, sauropods, megalania ect

[crystal wharf]

never said that

[grave veldt]

that tail looks pretty stiff to me i dont see its tail as a weapon

[sinful cove]

Even if that tail wasn’t stiff it would look stupid as fuck swinging around with how fat it is

[wheat field]

Tail whack has several meanings 😎

[alpine plover]

^

[grave veldt]

also it doesnt rly needs a tail whack

[golden coral]

Really? Huh, maybe there's hope then in the future! :p

[grave veldt]

nah they scrapped it cuz it was op and it turned way too fast lel

[crystal wharf]

i said tail attack, never slam, never whack, literally just tail attack, it can definitely just turn its body and knock something down with its tail

[alpine plover]

Shant would literally have to move its entire body to use a tail attack

[wheat field]

Down with the stego rebellion

[alpine plover]

that looks stupid

[thin herald]

Like, it doesnt make sense for a spino to have a tail attack. It makes sense for teno, stego, kentro, any sauropod

[golden coral]

Hush you! :p

[crystal wharf]

guess shant cant turn

[grave veldt]

bro just give shant a shoulder check, trample dmg, a stomp, a headbut while moving, and boom ur good

[crystal wharf]

shant just moving should kill things underfoot

[alpine plover]

shant would have to almost make itself fall over to use its tail to attack

[wheat field]

But it would look so brain dead stupid and slow it would have little impact and by the time it goes off you are probably dead

[grave veldt]

it will cuz of trample

[alpine plover]

its tail is too short

[golden coral]

Huh, maybe if they rebalanced though. But stegos could possibly do something like that irl, so it would be cool! They do need a bit of a better turn I think, it's.. spectacularily slow as it stands.

[alpine plover]

like shants body IS it tail

so calling it a tail attack doesnt make sense

[crystal wharf]

what? shant? dead before it can get an attack off?

[wheat field]

Pretty fast if you ask me

[sinful cove]

Hadros should use bulk based cc and their environment to knock of attackers not their lardy ass tails lol

[grave veldt]

ye it is pretty slow but i think the turn is fine instead id rather get an alt sweep that does AOE and can be used while moving

[golden coral]

If you think stego turn is fast, then I have no idea what you'd consider slow :p

[alpine plover]

bork should para have a tail attack

[wheat field]

Idk man the way they describing rex makes me think Legacy Rex is gonna come back to haunt us all

[crystal wharf]

shant just standing on its hind legs and turning would knock things down

[crystal wharf]

rex isnt shit to a shant

[alpine plover]

turning? how?

[wheat field]

But how would a shant turn on hind legs

[golden coral]

Well that too. But I still think the turn could be sped up a little, it takes ages just to move around from eating a bush damn it :p Do you happen to have any link to anim for that 180 turn or so?

[crystal wharf]

with its legs dumbass

[alpine plover]

HOW

[crystal wharf]

by moving its body

[alpine plover]

It's 14 TONS

[wheat field]

Then wtf would hunt a shant besides giga and spino

[crystal wharf]

14 tons means you cant turn, shant adults must always move in one direction now

[grave veldt]

no idea where the link is i just know that at sum point they had an animation for it but it was yeeted out the window

[alpine plover]

bork do elephants walk around on their hind legs?

[crystal wharf]

giga and spino

[alpine plover]

if its no, then shant cant to

[wheat field]

Lemme just place my 14 ton ass over here real quick while my center of gravity is completely off balance

[crystal wharf]

shant isnt an elephant

[alpine plover]

it weighs more then one

[wheat field]

It kinda is tbh

[crystal wharf]

you cannot compare hadrosaurs to elephants

[alpine plover]

So how can it do something that a elephent which is 10 tons lighter cant even do?

This is about weight

[crystal wharf]

because hadrosaurs can rear up on their hind legs and move

[alpine plover]

source?

I want to see a paper saying a 14 ton shant can walk on their hind legs

[crystal wharf]

@alpine plover could shant rear up on its hind legs?

[alpine plover]

but this isnt about standing

[alpine plover]

probably

this is about turning/moving

[wheat field]

Shant is 14 fucking tons, it can stand up IN PLACE but it cannot move around like you are specifying it to be

[crystal wharf]

im not saying its running, never said it would

im calling you two idiots for saying that it cannot turn on its hind legs

[alpine plover]

but we're talking about turning, not running

[wheat field]

You said a shant could turn while standing...

[alpine plover]

but no one said that

[crystal wharf]

it could? i dont see the problem here

[wheat field]

😑

[alpine plover]

It can stand

not turn

[grave veldt]

what was the original argument?

[crystal wharf]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/778350416831709314/841335620881612821

[alpine plover]

he said turn

[crystal wharf]

yeah, so did i

[wheat field]

Literally says turn...

[alpine plover]

what

[crystal wharf]

i dont see how it couldnt turn

[alpine plover]

14 tons

[wheat field]

Bro

[crystal wharf]

hadrosaur

[alpine plover]

elephant who weigh around 6 tons cant

so how the fuck can shant?

[crystal wharf]

because shant doesnt have the same anatomy as an elephant

[alpine plover]

This isnt about anatomy

its about weight

[thin herald]

Kinda is at this point

[alpine plover]

Like thats physically impossible

and what about shants "anatomy" says it can?

[crystal wharf]

tail

[alpine plover]

if its standing how does its tail help it?

its standing and turning

[wheat field]

I wonder if a shant could sniff and stand on hind legs in legacy? 🤔

[crystal wharf]

its tail helps it balance its body, it doesnt just disappear because it stood up

[thin herald]

Tail acts like a counter weight for its body

[alpine plover]

Shants tail is sticking down

and that doesnt really help it

[thin herald]

No its not

[wheat field]

When moving the tail is gonna sway so it is extremely unadvisable go turn

[grave veldt]

quote

"basal bipedal ornithischians (a = 1.19), ornithopods (a = 1.19) and hadrosaurs (a = 1.12) showed weak positive allometry that was statistically significant in ornithopods (p = 0.000) and basal bipedal ornithischians (p = 0.003) but not in hadrosaurs (p = 0.178)."

[alpine plover]

it is

its standing up

its tail is down

@crystal wharf So this can turn and walk on its hind legs?

[crystal wharf]

yes

[grave veldt]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3358279/

[alpine plover]

[grave veldt]

good article about bone structure if u wanna read it

[lament cloak]

hadrosaurus could go onto their hind legs because of their tail. elephants can't because their noodle tail doesn't balance it

[wheat field]

I understand now why i never see the r————-word in these chats just gotta make sure I don’t accidentally mute myself for calling myself that

[grave veldt]

the bot is dangerous

i swear ive gotten muted w/o even knowing how

lel

[wheat field]

Man I was gonna ask if you could dumb down what the article meant and called myself that and I was like “heh”

[alpine plover]

Yeah but I was saying that shant couldnt WALK or TURN while standing, not that it couldnt stand.

[grave veldt]

its a little complex

very complex

but in general its just bone structures and density about certain dinosaur families

[wheat field]

Such a sudden change in thoughts

[grave veldt]

lol

[grave veldt]

"The allometric coefficient of Ornithopoda increased to become statistically significantly different from isometry (a = 1.2, p = 0.01), while that of Marginocephalia remained the same, but became non-significant (a = 1.36, p = 0.18)."

a little complex

imo

[wheat field]

Yes yes I completely understand this quote to MY fullest ability that being said I have no ability

[grave veldt]

[wheat field]

Man I don’t understand all this A=X# or P=x#

[grave veldt]

its just like

a way to say a specific bone length

depending on the dinos class

also i believe a and p r specifically the Ulna bone

[thin herald]

A is probably the femur

[alpine plover]

@wild coral ping me here, not in that channel

And it is a survival game where you have one life. That is heavily influenced by combat

Balance > Realism

In every case of design

[wraith spindle]

Does anyone know the exact growth time for Deinos?

[stark knoll]

5hrs

[wild coral]

its not a survival game its a simulation of prehistoric life, survival is natural part of it and food chain is also natural part of it, there is no need to bring some battle royale attitude into this game, also this game is influenced by realism am sure you can tell that so saying its about combat, its not. Path of titans for example is not influenced by realism so maybe that is more suitable for you.

[lean shoal]

this is a survival horror simulation game with dinosaurs.

[hollow canyon]

The game is definitely not a simulation of prehistoric life

That would be Saurian - The Isle takes place in the current day. You have human buildings all around the map. Extant plants, extant animals chirping around(as ambient sounds).

[lean shoal]

as far as simulation goes its limited to you playing as an animal or human and having some immersion.

the only way this is a simulation game is that you play as an animal.

it doesnt lean that heavily into simulation.

it will be more horror based for mercs/tribals and once gore/night are in.

[alpine plover]

@dense hamlet

You cant just look at its speed and call carnos alt bite useless, it has lots of uses if you're a good player

being able to just attack is super useful, and the dely lets you time it for INSTANT damage

its a lot more consistent then just turning and biting

[dense hamlet]

Guess i just have trouble with it then

[alpine plover]

yea its hard to get used to

but its super useful

[dense hamlet]

I went up against a utah and tried timing it but it was way to slow you could see it a mile away i almost died tk the utah trying out the alt lol

[sinful cove]

Idk why but the idea of stego death packs just surrounding people and fucking executing them by attacking all at once while mix packing with utah megapacks going well out of their way to kill random deinos is hilarious and just sums this game up so well

I wish i could have seen this stego execution circle if it actually happened

[proper zephyr]

I do hope there’s something to combat it soon

they aren’t super common for me at least, but they are very annoying

[sinful cove]

yeah that shit is hilarious but it should stay on deathmatch servers and out of survival

not really anything else to do atm aside from go on toxic KFS sprees like some dinosaur hunger games

[proper zephyr]

true

diets should shake up stuff and make it different from just going out killing things, but idk what would combat mix packing or overpacking aside from just rules like there were on the legacy officials

[sinful cove]

i doubt diets will stop the kfs sprees, might slow them down a tad but i doubt they'll make much of a dent

[proper zephyr]

I think just giving official servers rules would be nice

simple shit like no mixpacking

[runic cliff]

I kinda wished Isle would become more like the Forest; hop on with some friends and make your own survival story with some very good AI. Im at a point were I really don't care about the current gameplay loop at all anymore. Growing a Teno, Carno, Stego or Deino is 100% not worth your time anymore unless they fix the overpacking and abuse

[sinful cove]

yeah there was a lot of hype around mechanics sort of governing the game in place of actual rules, but KFS, megapacking and mix packing runs rampant in evrima so far compared to what it was on legacy officials

i don't see how perks or diets will stop it with what we know of those two systems so far, but maybe the devs have something planned they havent discussed publicly yet

[proper zephyr]

i just think rules like with legacy would fix the issue

no need for some complex game mechanic

[sinful cove]

unfortunately that may be the case where rules are needed after all and the game can't truly be governed by its mechanics

or they'll just say fck it and let the chaos continue but i'll have some faith that doesn't happen

[runic cliff]

This yellow cloud when in a group doesn't do anything to stop people group up in megapacks, just saying

[sinful cove]

i personally like to play as small animals anyway so it doesn't affect me as much in a negative way, but sucks to see the game being ruined for others by extremely unfair means

maybe theyll have to utilize megapacking diseases or some bs like that after all lol

not sure how they'd utilize megapack stress or disease without it also negatively affecting other part sof the gameplay though

[proper zephyr]

maybe once Evrima has more to it they’ll add in rules like they did with legacy

[sinful cove]

since large groups can accumulate and not be working together by happenstance

[proper zephyr]

rules were only really put in a bit before the recode process began in legacy

[runic cliff]

The weird thing is, I can tell these are Chinese kospacks because I get massive fps drops when they are around. I even got attacked as a Ptera by 2 other Chinese Pteras at the shallow section of the map because I was watching them do their stuff (taking screenshots and all) and the Fps went from over 50 to less then 20 untill I made a fast getaway. Kinda funny!

[sinful cove]

it's their aura

[runic cliff]

Hehehe ye must be

[proper zephyr]

we thought we were rid of them, but now they’ve returned

[sinful cove]

they were around in the open QA too

they are never truly gone i don't think

[runic cliff]

Some people say they also use speedhacks again too..havent seen that in person yet but it woudnt surprise me

[proper zephyr]

people really are scum aren’t they
ruin the fun for everyone to fuel your ego by killing virtual dinosaurs

[sinful cove]

people also apparently still use gamma and the nights arent even dark atm

[runic cliff]

There are some who are nice..not all are bad. Met some back on V3 but most just Kos you as soon as they know youre from another country

[proper zephyr]

majority of the mix packs ive seen aren’t mass killing squads, just people hanging out kinda

though I’ve seen some of the former and they’re awful

[sinful cove]

the hacked legacy servers had quite a few nice people running them too but the death execution xxx kill you and your family for the blood gods gangs are still the most notorious

i see a lot of the megapacks chilling but it is super volatile and the violence can spark from one wrong move by anyone involved like a bush fire

[runic cliff]

But getting back on balance feedback, a lot of the issues we have with Steg and Deino come from the bad map design and the kos packs. I like Stego a lot, and on its own its not even THAT op, but once you get a group going ..

[sinful cove]

stego isnt op at all actually. It, utah and deino's misbalances all stem from a cluster of poor implementations that don't really tie directly to the stats of the dinosaurs

the vast majority of the issues at least

[runic cliff]

Thank god Ptera doesnt have more then the N it does now..imagine death squads of em picking their way across the servers

Once Quetz gets out tho.....omg I dont even wanna think about it!

[sinful cove]

like stegos camping the water = bad rivers
deinos getting headshot damage by biting stego's body and vice versa = hitbox changes
utah megapacks = super fast growth and easy to grow unbeatable packs
utah pounce issue = weird stun on voluntary disengages

oh i've actually seen pteras pick people off after fights

i've seen pteras get final blows on a stego once

after it beat the pack that attacked it, ended up dying to pteras pecking it from several meters away

i don't even bother growing things like stego and deino, not worth it when stuff like that happens and i'm content with small playables anyway

[runic cliff]

really! Wow

[sinful cove]

yeah the guy killed like 10 raptors just to get his last bits of hp pecked away by 3 pteras

[runic cliff]

Ah almost sounds like the famous rex vs giga fight were the rex winns, but gets executed by something like a utah who was in the bushes waching the fight 🤣 (happened to me and my best friend once)

[sinful cove]

that's a regularity on legacy, small guys waiting on apexes to fight to wreck the winner lmao

[dim crown]

Wich server?

[hollow canyon]

The hitbox changes had nothing to do with people complaining about Stego and Deino match up. It was an issue I kept bringing up and it wasn't at all connected to me feeling that Deino should do better against Stego or not. The hitboxes were a global issue in the game that worked absolutely against the larger animals(Stego and Deino), allowing Utahs to tank their attacks by turning their tails against the upcoming attack. This made it so that Stego might've had to hit Utah 10 times whilst Deino had to attack Utah 20+ times before the raptor went down. It was absolutely ridiculous and dumb. The hitboxes were probably the best change the devs have made in ages.

[grave veldt]

yes the hitboxes arent the issue here

[hollow canyon]

I know what the issue is, that's not the point

[grave veldt]

deino can phase thru the entirety of stego and get headshots becuz its physics box is so small

[hollow canyon]

portraying it that this change was done to allow Deino to have better chaces against Stego is simply being disingenuous because that's not why it was introduced.

#401464048610312195 message

Stuff like this is absolutely unaccptable in a long run imo

This didn't happen just against Deino but also against Stego

larger creatures were absolutely screwed by the way the locational damage worked

[grave veldt]

why is deinos physics box so small

[hollow canyon]

Stego might need a buff potentially but that's a different story

It's not about it's "box"

it's about how the locational worked

[grave veldt]

it kinda is honestly

alot of dinos can just phase thru most of deino

[hollow canyon]

Oh that's because the collision box is very likely the same for all the animals

[grave veldt]

ah

[hollow canyon]

Deino is the largest animal in the game

[grave veldt]

makes sense

[hollow canyon]

It's just more visible with it because it's only part of its head neck and torso that has collision

Utahs were buffed in terms of their growth time but they were the only thing buffed - Tenontos were also buffed, so were Carnos and Dryos.

Utahs are simply the most popular animals so their megapacks are the most common ones.

[grave veldt]

utahs pounce is also needs some kind of kick back

or maybe for it to dismount faster

cuz atm if a stego times its attack as soon as the utah dismounts it kills it everytime

[hollow canyon]

Yea Utah's in a pretty bad spot actually. It's in the legacy-Allo situation

[grave veldt]

is it easy to grow?

[hollow canyon]

Everything is easy to grow I'd argue

[grave veldt]

havent played utah in ages

well ofc thats cuz for basically most things u can just afk grow

atm

[hollow canyon]

Utah is relatively easy - it has to eat like once or twice to get to full adult

Carno I'd say is the hardest animal to grow on your own

Deino's rather easy if you know how to do it

Any herbivore is just a matter of time

[grave veldt]

deino is probably one of the easiest grows in the game

[hollow canyon]

It is but it isn't simultaneously - it's harder than all the herbivores and Pteranodon, might be harder to grow than Utah

but it's still easy

[grave veldt]

due to fish and it being the only semi-aquatic it makes it relatively easy

[hollow canyon]

Carno's the only weird one because it(just like Deino) is really trash while young

Nvm actually, I've read the entire thing that @sinful cove wrote up there and he's on point. The issues with balance of those animals are all down to the implementation of certain things.

A very small mistake there causes one animal to be either really good or really bad.

[grave veldt]

hopefully diets actually makes herbivores interesting

caarnivores will most likely always be more high paced

[hollow canyon]

I personally feel about Stego specifically that it should have an easier time getting a hit in but not deal that much damage with those hits.

[grave veldt]

how would that work tho

like a faster attack?

[hollow canyon]

faster attack, lower cooldown, an attack it could perform while on the move

lower damage

[grave veldt]

personally i feel like just keep stego how it is but give it a sweep thats faster and does AOE but takes more stam

as an alt attack

[hollow canyon]

Stego can be cheesed in 50 and 5 different ways due to the fact that its attacks are just rather clunky. They are really powerful but they are clunky to use and can be abused by its opponents. Landing a hit is rather difficult on anything

Hell I was once caught by a Stego as a young Deino and it couldn't land a hit on me because it had so much issue to turn around correctly

it was quite absurd

[grave veldt]

true but i havent had too many issues with it

if u predict where the person will go after the attack

it makes attacking it much easier

[hollow canyon]

Neither did I but I've played Stego... in December I think?

[grave veldt]

im basically a stego main so thats the only reason i can speak about it since ik what u can do

[hollow canyon]

It's more so my experience based on fighting them than playing the animal itself

[grave veldt]

its how ive killed many utahs as well

u basically bait them in and u tank a head hit while u use the diagonal front attack which spears them on the way out

[hollow canyon]

Stego is absolutely not my thing and someone would probably have to pay me to grow it again. I just despise the way this animal plays

[grave veldt]

rly wish it had a sweep

but ive managed to work around its attack so

[hollow canyon]

A really boring growth, not particularly interesting when fully grown. I don't see much of a reason to touch it one way or another

[grave veldt]

well

stego wont be for everyone in the end anyways

[hollow canyon]

A lot of animals won't be for everyone

[grave veldt]

yup

[hollow canyon]

Stego's not for me for sure

[grave veldt]

anky stego brachi

these r fat slow moving and hard hitting dinos

[hollow canyon]

I will probably play each one of them once but that's it

[proper zephyr]

gimme troodon

[grave veldt]

personally i like being a fat tanky dino so thats why i main stego

its attack isnt great

but once u get it u can work around it

it still suffers from not having a sweep tho

[hollow canyon]

I'm not criticising or judging - it's definitely not for me, I can see the appeal that others see in it though.

[proper zephyr]

i do hope troodon’s venom doesn’t lead it to being mega overpowered on release

should take a fair few bites from multiple to deliver enough venom to have any effect

[hollow canyon]

Just saying - I've grown a Stego once had some "fun" with it. But I wouldn't do it again unless someone outright paid me to play it again probably.

[grave veldt]

ofc many dinos wont be for everyone

thats why theres so many dinos to choose from

everyone gets to play their own play style

[wheat ridge]

well the majority will play apexe as soon as they are released, just like in legacy

i hope they will be way more difficult to grow tho

[vapid fable]

people will try to grow apexes just like in legacy, but they will have a much harder life and after a dozen deaths or two they'll realize mid tiers and some small tiers are way more fun and enjoyable to play

[grave veldt]

hey if u want an apex go ahead but it'll take actual work

and effort to grow it

[vapid fable]

because it comes down to "look at this cool big dino" vs a creature with fun and interesting special abilities and its challenging and rewarding gameplay

yup, if someone is really good at playing rex and have a easy time surviving then they should play rex

problem with legacy was it didnt take much to grow an apex and keep it alive, so everyone can grow one, its too easy

[solid storm]

Almost every server I go to has like 5-6 adult deinos with like 4-5 babies in close range, they ate my friend 5 deinos vs 2 hatchling utahs

Problem is the rivers that have no crocs also have no food, so going for a safe drink leads to starvation as I can't kill/scavange off the hotspots, and finding a dryo is like winning the lottery which is nice when you find one.

Think I might have found 5 dryos since the release of update 3, and this is with searching through plains when running between rivers.

[languid frost]

@serene spoke I agree carnos need a nerf or at least weaknesses. Stam is good as it is tho, they're runners so their strengths are speed and stam. But they shouldn't be able to easily turn 180° while they're running at max speed, that's just unnatural and make them excessively easy to play with. They already have an omnidirectional attack, it just need to be slightly faster. That way they wouldn't be excessively nerfed but get a punishment played with no skills, just running and biting.

[serene spoke]

yeah good idea

[alpine plover]

@serene spoke carno JUST got a stamina nerf, why nerf it more?

[alpine plover]

carno just got a turn nerf to

where are you getting this info from?

carnos horrible at turning compared to other creatures

[silent comet]

carno needs a bigger nerf

mostly to fix its m1 spam or make it fall when turning 180 degrees while running at full speed

carno is the easiest to play and u can just turn ur brain off while playing carno in evrima atm

[old hull]

about time someone talks about how broken carno is

[serene spoke]

yeah just something to nerf its turn

bc i feel like when i have a pack of 4 utahs we cant kill 1 and if its a 3v8 still cant beat it

and dont get me started with 8carnos i ran into today

[deep escarp]

as a utah main id say carno is fairly balanced, id say maybe it should have the same speed as utah but thats about it.

[serene spoke]

how many times have u been killed by carno and killed carno

[serene spoke]

and i said stam or something

[deep escarp]

ive killed more than i have been killed by

normally if we have 3 of us adults the carno is fucked and they just run

[old hull]

carnos entire gameplay style rn is completly brainless too , while you utah you need careful timing and use the pounce correctly , carno is just chompa chompa everyone to death

not challenging to use , not fun to fight against

[serene spoke]

yeah u just spam left click and tank all damage

its not as punishing

[old hull]

exactly , and that is legacy trash , doesnt belong in evrima

[serene spoke]

thats the problem

[deep escarp]

if you have a good group adn two of you pounce the carno at the same time you will drain all its stam

[old hull]

carno rn is just a tall utah that cant pounce

[serene spoke]

yeah but u cant ever pounce it

[deep escarp]

why not?

[serene spoke]

it is always runing on my ass

[deep escarp]

thats why you hunt as a pack

[languid frost]

That's it, utahs need skills and be careful to fight and hunt, tenos and stegos too, deinos, but carnos... they just need to outnumber their prey

[silent comet]

atm carnos are teaming in packs 10+ quite often, in a 1v3 true carno is kinda fked

i rarely see solo carno

[serene spoke]

well maybe i need to yell at my pack

[deep escarp]

we come up against a pack of legit 20 carnos yesterday at center, we killed off like 4 or so.

[serene spoke]

to pounce it

cause they all just take a hit then run off

and i can never touch it

if i do its 1 hit and i trade back another

either leaving me to die or i get away

[old hull]

brainless spam clicking your main attack should never be rewarded , its not utah or teno or stego etc (except the stupid croc but thats another issue) so why is carno this way

[deep escarp]

the only issue i have is that carnos can out run a raptor which happens so much, if htey get low they just run in a straight line and raptors cant keep up.

[old hull]

thats why you see so many of them around , any idiot can play a carno and do well because they are so forgiving and brainless

[serene spoke]

yes

and its only an extra hour to do that

[vapid fable]

if you die to a carno as a utah that's your own fault, you either failed your pounce or just sucks at juking

[silent comet]

this is the most annoying thing, getting carno to low hp is quite hard bcs u can really only pounce it cuz it will just m1 spam if u got for biting

[serene spoke]

no bc there 180 turn is bs

[vapid fable]

you have so many means of escaping as a utah so stop complaining

[serene spoke]

u cant juke a carno

[vapid fable]

180 turn stops carno completely

[deep escarp]

which is why i would say they should have the same speed as raptors, not even less.

[deep escarp]

yes you can easy

[vapid fable]

have you even played carno? that 180 turn stops carno completely

and carno stam just had a huge nerf, almost cut in half

shit can't even run from shallow to central without getting low on stam

[silent comet]

carnos should be faster than utahs tho, utah can just juke it easily. They could get a debuff if raptor pounces it so it cant escape that easily and surely nerf its broken turning and m1 spam

[serene spoke]

show mer

[deep escarp]

My honest opinion it sounds like you lot are new to utah and are complaining about carno being to strong because you aint working as a pack to kill them.

[vapid fable]

you can jump across a river, jump on a rock, run into a forrest, hide in a bush

[serene spoke]

no ive dumped 150 hours into the game

[languid frost]

Look I've been able to kill 1v1 carnos as utah more than once, like 1/20 times lol, okay they're stronger, but even if you can "easily" kill a carno with another 1 or 2 utahs, for each carno you need to be like 3 per each one of them, which is totally unbalanced and nonsensical, carnos aren't apexes, carnos aren't suchos or allos, they should be slightly powerful than utahs or dilos, like ceras

[vapid fable]

if you die to carno as utah you either failed your pounce or just run in a straight line because carno is easy to juke

[deep escarp]

i got the game two weeks ago and have no problem killing carnos so you must be doing something wrong

[silent comet]

we are talking about fighting them tho, there should be a way to fight carnos efficiently not like it is rn

[old hull]

not sure why the stam of all things on the carno was changed , the stam was fine it is a carno , the whole gimmick is you run fast , what should be changed is how fast the things can turn

[serene spoke]

river no. some rocks yes. forest not really, and bush are u joking, that can press q

[dense hamlet]

i think people are trying to solo carno as utah and get mad when they don't

[vapid fable]

it takes 3 body hits to kill a utah, you know how hard it is to hit Utah 3 times whem they're juking properly?

[languid frost]

Hahaha really hard just needs to spam bite looking to one side or another

[vapid fable]

again, you're not playing it right, crouch walk will leave blood all around the bush

[deep escarp]

https://streamable.com/qlxvcn

[silent comet]

u juke to escape, u cant land hits on carno as utah if hes m1 spamming and getting hit even once as utah sucks for u

[serene spoke]

who said i was bleeding?

[deep escarp]

we drain his stam and hes just a sitting duck

[silent comet]

its a 4v1 tho with team on dc call

[vapid fable]

then how do you get caught? crouch walk doesn't leave footprints

[serene spoke]

can u show the full hunt. or only the clip?

[vapid fable]

if you're not bleeding then how do you die? carno doesn't one shot you

[deep escarp]

welcome to utah's they are pack dinos not solo

[languid frost]

Also they stop when they turn yeah, but they're looking back instantly

[alpine plover]

carno is immobile as hell compared to the rest of the cast already

[serene spoke]

sitting down

[vapid fable]

why would you sit down then

for what reason

[alpine plover]

if you get caught by a carno you’re just bad

[serene spoke]

not during a fight

outside of a fight

[silent comet]

played few times as a carno and killed packs of like 4-6 utahs, only died to 3 cannibal carnos

[vapid fable]

^what onedio said

[alpine plover]

and

[silent comet]

and thats kinda broken innit?

[alpine plover]

carno is meant to hunt small game

[vapid fable]

carno vs utah is balanced, if a utah doesn't want to die to a carno they 100% shouldn't die

[languid frost]

@silent comet same

[alpine plover]

utah is small game

[vapid fable]

you played too aggressive and failed your pounce or got brushed off

[alpine plover]

and utah can juke carno

[vapid fable]

that's when a carno can two shot you with head shots

[languid frost]

Well if that carno attacks you when you don't have where to hide or jump most times you're dead, even if you're the best utah player, that means isn't balanced at all

[vapid fable]

juke him

[serene spoke]

whedre

where

do u juke

in the plains

m8

[vapid fable]

juking is so incredibly easy in evrima

yes

in the plains

bruh you just bad

[serene spoke]

??

[vapid fable]

don't run in a straight line

[serene spoke]

ur trolling right

[vapid fable]

how hard is that

[serene spoke]

I DONT

i weave and bob

[vapid fable]

run left and then right

use your turn

[serene spoke]

i do

[languid frost]

You can't juke forever

[novel tulip]

If you get in the woods as a utah you instantly have an advantage over carnos too

[serene spoke]

u clearly havnt played utah

before

[alpine plover]

why the hell are you in the plains trying to juke carno

go in the forest

[languid frost]

And obvs desync issues don't help either

[vapid fable]

there's no "forever open plain" on spiro

trees are always nearby

[alpine plover]

the plains are literally carnos main environment

[vapid fable]

look ive never died to a carno that's chasing me

[serene spoke]

yeah but hes saying just juke

[alpine plover]

the place its meant to thrive in

[alpine plover]

just juke

[novel tulip]

Don't pick fights you can't win if you want to live

[languid frost]

Wtf? As if you could choose where you're gonna be attacked by a carno 😂

[alpine plover]

its easy

[ripe zinc]

too hard to fight deino in the middle of the swamp too

[languid frost]

Also I'm not even playing, I'm talking about what happens usually

[vapid fable]

sounds terrible but literally, get good

learn to use your turn radius

carno turn sucks so much it's so easy to juke

[ripe zinc]

Carno can only ever attack you where you are

[serene spoke]

i dont pick the fight

[alpine plover]

nerf carno because im too bad to juke the animal with the worst turn in the game

[deep escarp]

You should never run in a staright line if a carno is chasing you, juke side to side and use bushes as cover to lose track of sight.

[novel tulip]

Don't carelessly run around in the open plains where you'll get spotted, and if one finds you you have way more maneuverability than they do and can dodge their attacks until you find cover

[languid frost]

@ripe zinc little difference, as land dino you don't have a single reason to be in the middle of a swamp, as land dino you need to cross open fields to hunt or whatever

[old hull]

carnos turn is far from the worst

[alpine plover]

oh stego and deino

[vapid fable]

I've seen one dryo dodging 3 carnos until they gave up because they're out of stam

[silent comet]

actually juking carnos is really easy, the problem begins if u want to attack him. You pounce (so u will be low stam after pounce) he will be able to land a hit on u while u end ur pounce if he knows what hes doing and he can either keep fighting u or run away outrunning you. If u go for bites (bcs as i said pouncing = getting hit 90% of the time) then he will just m1 spam, if u try to bite him from behind he will turn 180 degrees even if running full speed and u cant do shit. How is that balanced?

[alpine plover]

but those guys are heavy weights

carno is a wimp

a chump

and he has a shit turn radius considering that

[novel tulip]

You can literally just run away using your far superior maneuverability, I've chased utahs as carno before and they've evaded me by jumping around, turning really fast, and using my lack of maneuverability against me

If there's a river you can easily jump across and instantly escape

[serene spoke]

they are faster

[novel tulip]

Where did I say outspeed them

[vapid fable]

pouncing a carno as utah is a fast track to death, if the carno knows what they're doing

[serene spoke]

u said u can literlly just run away

just run

[vapid fable]

but again, you're not supposed to fight carno 1v1 as utah

[novel tulip]

I said using maneuverability, not speed

[old hull]

carnos existance makes utah not fun to play honestly

[languid frost]

And you know, stop talking to others as if you were the best players and the rest are useless, most times I can bite a carno 10 times before it bites me 2, I know how to turn, juke and whatever you want, but that doesn't mean everyone else can, and ofc doesn't mean carno is balanced, cause it's not, turning 180° instantly while they're running at max speed, almost the same than utah is just ridiculous

[alpine plover]

how

just juke it

[vapid fable]

what because it's the only thing that threatens you @old hull

[deep escarp]

as soon as we got 3 adults we go hunting for carnos to fight for fun.

[old hull]

it being so damn quick and utah and carno preying on the same food means you have to deal with them constantly

[languid frost]

@vapid fable yeah well you shouldn't, but you need to sometimes (a lot actually)

[alpine plover]

lol it is

[serene spoke]

do u have a hunt u can fully show to me

[alpine plover]

why ignore the fact you can easily juke carno

[old hull]

yeah juking one is easy enough but where there are 4-5 , pain in the rear

relax dude i can only type one sentence at a time lol

[deep escarp]

i think so but i have no way to upload a clip that big

[alpine plover]

well what do you expect

[vapid fable]

and you have to keep in mind you're not gonna have an easier time when pachy comes out

[serene spoke]

can u just dm it

[deep escarp]

can try

[novel tulip]

Its the same pain when there's 4-5 utahs attacking your solo carno, so I don't see how its unfair or unbalanced

[silent comet]

cuz we are talking about fighting carnos not escaping them

[serene spoke]

ok ty

[vapid fable]

utah is a pack hunter so every hunt comes with high risk

[silent comet]

true carno is broken tho

[alpine plover]

why the hell are you fighting carno

[old hull]

now why cant carno have high risk gameplay then?

[alpine plover]

you’re meant to run from caeno

[old hull]

rn its just brainless spam clicking

[vapid fable]

why is it broken @silent comet

[languid frost]

Lmao a single carno can kill 4-5 utahs with if he knows how to play, and taking not too much effort actually

[serene spoke]

so u say carno is braindead and utahs cant fight carno then

[alpine plover]

what

[vapid fable]

i think carno is actually balanced, people complaining about carno being fast when that thing has trash stam now

[serene spoke]

carno*'

[silent comet]

oh, ok so 2-3 utahs arent supposed to fight carno? Why even fight carnos afterall just let them take over servers aint that right? I legit see on 3 different servers pond/shallow and center full of carnos and there are sometimes groups of atleast 10+ carnos

[silent comet]

@vapid fable

[deep escarp]

a carno can out speed and stam a utah in a straight line, so when they get low they just run in a straight line for like 20mins

[languid frost]

I don't complain about its speed or stam, I said that's good as it is, but a thing with that size, tiny arms and running that fast should bite the ground if tries to turn 180° running

[vapid fable]

2-3 utahs can definitely kill a carno, but 1 or 2 utahs will definitely die

[alpine plover]

yes

it can literally out run you

and 3 utahs can hunt carno anyways

[silent comet]

please tell me ur not serious rn

[deep escarp]

i disagree ive solo'd an adult carno and killed adults with just 2 of us a couple of times.

[alpine plover]

just endurance hunt it

[vapid fable]

well yes there's plenty of bad carno players lol

[dense hamlet]

2 skilled utah players can hunt a carno

[alpine plover]

the people here arent skilled

lol

[serene spoke]

best carno na

[silent comet]

lets not look at skill of players bcs a good utah can kill a noob carno and vice versa
but a good carno will most likely kill a good utah

[alpine plover]

Ive been nearly hunted by 2 3 utahs before as carno, they played well and almost got me

[alpine plover]

lol

so you want gameplay to be balanced around bad players?

[languid frost]

Well carnos rn are like allos when they shouldn't be, a good utah should be able to have a balanced fight with a good carno player even if carno wins, 2 good utahs should be able to kill 1 carno, and ofc 8 utahs should be able to keep their ground against 5 carnos, but that isn't happening rn, the more carnos are together, more utahs are needed to kill each carno

[deep escarp]

imo utah is the most skilled dino to play atm so obvs less skilled players will struggle and complain

which seems to be whats happening

[vapid fable]

yup

[alpine plover]

carno is 1.8 tons

utah is 500kg

[silent comet]

u comparing noob carno to a pro utah player. At this point the dinosaur doesnt matter anymore

[alpine plover]

how is it a “even match”

[dense hamlet]

Well isn’t the point to get better ? Die from mistakes and get better not just be “pro” from the start?

[alpine plover]

I as 500kg raptor should be able to kill a 1.8 ton predator

[languid frost]

Which shouldn't be either, 500kg lol and smaller than they should, these aren't utahs these are JP raptors

[dense hamlet]

Player skill should be put into consideration, a poorly skilled utah dying to a good carno should not complain about nerfing carno

[alpine plover]

what

utah is 500kg in game

[languid frost]

Yeah in game

[silent comet]

i mean 1v4 ing carno aint really that hard. I 4v5 carnos with random raptor players and we killed 4 carnos on a plain field, still it doesnt make them balanced

[languid frost]

Real utahs were like 0.3-0.5m higher, 1-2m longer and up to 600kg to 1T

[alpine plover]

and?

[vapid fable]

most carno players don't even know press e to buck

[alpine plover]

we have 500kg ones

so why does IRL matter

[languid frost]

But hey, that can't be in game, cause then utahs would be able to wipe out every other creature

[alpine plover]

utah mains literally have the tools to escape carno

[silent comet]

but bcs they play carno they can do whatever they want really

[alpine plover]

ive done it even before the carno nerfs

it isnt hard

[vapid fable]

no not really, you can't kill anything without skill as carno rn @silent comet

have you tried killing small things as carno, it's really hard, juking and escaping is really really easy in evrima

[languid frost]

It matters cause devs supposedly didn't want JP style things lol but each time they released an update or patch, utahs have been nerfed or broken, even if they nerf other dinos, they don't fix utah and nerf it even more

[silent comet]

u do, just find a pack of carnos if u really cant do anything (somehow) what is the easiest thing to do as of rn

[old hull]

not if the desync gives you an assist , which as a carno is most of the time

[vapid fable]

same thing can be said about utah

[alpine plover]

utah is fine

[old hull]

fair point

[vagrant mural]

Dryo’s can juke the fuck out of you, hypsis don’t exist, utahs are probably your best bet but packs can be a big problem, tenos are a good fight, and deinos and stego are obvious

[silent comet]

then pounce stego or carno if they know what they doing they will kill u after u end ur pounce instantly (especially stegos)

[old hull]

if only people were actually forced to obey the group limits and carnos group stayed at 3 cuz 5 is ridiculous

[vapid fable]

even a good carno vs a good teno isn't 100% in the carnos favor, and you can so easily kill "noob" carno players as teno, 3 headshots with tail slam

[alpine plover]

thats a problem though I agree

[vagrant mural]

5 is fine

[dense hamlet]

If you as a utah know what you are doing you wont pounce it until you know it will die from that pounce or that it has no stam

[silent comet]

yes and its not supposed to be this way

[old hull]

utah should be 5 not carno , thats waaay too many

3 carnos is more then you will ever need to hunt basically anything you want

[languid frost]

Idk each time I've played as carno fighting anything has been really easy, and even if I managed to kill carnos 1v1 as utah before this update, it still is a dino made just to run and bite, run away when you're hurt, nothing can catch it so what's the risk? What's the skill you need to survive? Just hold shift and spam LMB lol

[vapid fable]

issue with the game is not carno or utah or stego or croc, it's 10 carnos and 20 utahs running around together

[silent comet]

literally carno gameplay

[vagrant mural]

5 carnos currently? Sure. But with shit like allos, albertos, and even ceras, having the small fast weak hunter having 5 people in a pack is fine

[old hull]

carnos just wont have to fight allos or ceras etc , they can just run away

[languid frost]

@dense hamlet agree that's why the best way is trying to bite several times before, which is really hard even if you're really good and luck is by your side

[old hull]

they are supposed to be good at bullying small things and nothing else

[novel tulip]

Did you solo a good tenonto? Or a stego? Those take tons of skill to hunt as a carno, and the spam lmb to win only works on small game that runs in a straight line in the plains

Can't even solo a stego as carno you die

[silent comet]

adding new dinos before fixing current problems wont happen (i hope)

[vagrant mural]

Running isn’t always an option

[old hull]

as do i my friend , as do i

[vapid fable]

you guys have no idea how trash carno stam is do you

[alpine plover]

pretty much. you only have a chance if you have a full group out in the plains. If it’s in the forest you’re dead. Utahs have a much easier time killing stegos

[old hull]

but i dont see desync going anywhere anytime soon so i think we are screwed @silent comet lol

[vapid fable]

you cant run away from utahs as carno, because they're not much slower, and you have less than 90 seconds of stam

[languid frost]

It works even if your target runs in circles, zig zag or however it wants, if you miss a bite the next one will land, cause it bites like a damn machine gun

[silent comet]

its enough to run from a utah especially if he pounced u but if he did u probably hit him for half of his hp by now and he wont bother to chase u

[alpine plover]

its really not

a good utah pack and run down a carno

[dense hamlet]

Yeah depending on what you are fighting, the only one that this cannot be done solo unless the skill difference is high is carno, the rest like stego and teno is fairly easy even solo

[vapid fable]

no it's not, ive tracked carnos as utah, it's easy

[silent comet]

a good utah pack

[vagrant mural]

It can go both ways

Even solo you can run down a carno

[vapid fable]

you don't lose them that easy, and they have so little stam you can always catch up

[vagrant mural]

Your stam is quite a bit better and your speed is nothing to scoff at

[silent comet]

still it doenst make carno balanced

[vapid fable]

so this "carno can just run away" thing is completely false now

tell me what about carno isn't balanced @silent comet

[vagrant mural]

Carno beats Utah because that’s what it’s designed to do

[silent comet]

he can, he will most likely find a pack of other carnos cuz the servers are overpopulated with broken ass carnos

[grave veldt]

utah is meant to be prey to carno

[languid frost]

A good utah PACK against 1 carno, which usually is the opposite lmao

[vapid fable]

that doesn't mean carno is broken

[golden coral]

What? The "utah" we have is JP style, as much as can be? And real life utah would not do very well in this game I don't think.

[vapid fable]

you can find a pack too as a utah

[silent comet]

"actually juking carnos is really easy, the problem begins if u want to attack him. You pounce (so u will be low stam after pounce) he will be able to land a hit on u while u end ur pounce if he knows what hes doing and he can either keep fighting u or run away outrunning you. If u go for bites (bcs as i said pouncing = getting hit 90% of the time) then he will just m1 spam, if u try to bite him from behind he will turn 180 degrees even if running full speed and u cant do shit. How is that balanced?"

[vagrant mural]

There are also a shitload of utahs

[vapid fable]

so your complain is you can't kill carno as a solo utah

[alpine plover]

It’s amazing that people are surprised that a 2 ton theropod that is made to hunt in the plains can kill a small 500kg Utah. The islecord

[vagrant mural]

So, your point in balancing it, is to make the thing that carno is supposed to kill with relative ease, kill them solo

[novel tulip]

You're not supposed to fight carno 1v1, thats perfectly balanced. For the exact same reason carno isn't able to 1v1 stego

[vapid fable]

you don't seem to realize pounce is high risk high reward, and also 1v1 carno as utah is not what you're supposed to do

[vagrant mural]

You have tools to get away from a carno

It’s like an 80/20 matchup starkly in carno’s favor

[novel tulip]

Utah takes way much less time to grow than carno, and carno is specifically meant to hunt small prey, if you cant win just escape across a river or into the woods

[vapid fable]

just because you can't reliably kill carno doesn't mean carno is broken, remember you can't die to a carno as utah if you don't want to

[silent comet]

pounce is broken rn if u didnt realized somehow

[novel tulip]

Carnos can't do anything about stegos either

[vagrant mural]

Utah has jump, stam, and maneuverability

[vapid fable]

how is pounce broken...

[languid frost]

Well the thing is utah should be utah for real the same way carno is carno for real, teno is teno, etc etc

[vapid fable]

why is everything broken in your book

[silent comet]

ur not for real are u?

[languid frost]

That prolly would fix everything

[golden coral]

What's the issue here now?.. :p

[alpine plover]

the isle

[vapid fable]

tell me how is pounce broken

[silent comet]

have u played as utah? or u just a carno main lol

[vapid fable]

there are actually people 1v1 stego as utah because how capable pounce is

[alpine plover]

yea utah pounce is.......

[vapid fable]

and you're here complaining about it being under powered

[golden coral]

@alpine ploverUnfortunately, that's an all too accurate answer to the question.. :p

[vagrant mural]

I play a decent amount of Utah

[golden coral]

I don't think you'd want that.

[languid frost]

If devs and you want a small raptor to use as prey when utahs were one of the best hunters in their times and place, then call it idk, dakotaraptor which fits better

[silent comet]

if stego doesnt know how to 1 tap u after u end ur pounce then yes. If they know u gone and its a bug

[alpine plover]

teno is literally nothing like irl teno

[vapid fable]

if you're talking about the running input lock that's not a bug

[vagrant mural]

So you want the slow bulky allo rip off instead?

[alpine plover]

[golden coral]

Nor is utah for that matter. Carno might be somewhat, except for the small game hunter thing.

[vapid fable]

you have to wait until you land to press shift

[alpine plover]

imagine worrying about realism in the isle

[golden coral]

You do also realize irl utah did not pounce or did anything like what the game one does?

[vagrant mural]

I agree there should be an option for a boost off a pounce at the cost of stam but

[vapid fable]

holding shift any time before landing won't get you running

[silent comet]

no. If utah ends his pounce on a dino, the dino can get a free hit on u or even 2 what makes pounce mostly useless as of rn

[alpine plover]

If that was the case deino would be able to drag in full adult rexes

[vapid fable]

you're ending your pounce at the wrong yime

end it when they're running

[languid frost]

Imagine expecting a good and accurate game with good mechanics and working properly, oh wait...

[silent comet]

bruh xD

[vapid fable]

then you get a kickback

and land further from them

[vagrant mural]

Insane bleed, causes the enemy to either waste stam or wait the damage out

[silent comet]

and what if they have more than 2 braincells and dont start running?

[grave veldt]

the isle? accurate?

[golden coral]

@silent cometThat's not a bug. It is however a question of pounce kickoff distance, but even so, you do not pounce solo or when the prey has time to look at you and swing in the right moment. Use your packmates to distract, go for headbites. If the stego still wants to kill you specifically, then yes, you'll die, but your packmates now gained free hits/pounces.

[vapid fable]

look, im not arguing with you, but watch GrimXD twitch vod, he 1v1 stegos as utah, and does exactly im telling you @silent comet

[languid frost]

Was irony @grave veldt

[vagrant mural]

Or, just get better

[vapid fable]

there's a trick to when you end a pounce, pounce WOULD be overpowered if you want them to fix your "bug"

[deep escarp]

https://streamable.com/vnd495 i wish this would happen more 😄

[vapid fable]

because then there's no risk in pouncing

[old hull]

ew landcrocs

[silent comet]

u can always miss ur pounce what makes u dead

[alpine plover]

but the isle isn’t meant to be accurate

[vapid fable]

that's true and that's a balance decision made by the devs

because people were just spam pouncing

[dawn falcon]

And you’re dead, so be it

[vapid fable]

spam rmb and it was the stupidest thing

[grave veldt]

^

[silent comet]

if 4 raptors pounce stego he still can tap 2 of them if they both let go at the same time for example, its a bug cuz u get punished if u miss ur pounce and get punished if u hit ur pounce

[dawn falcon]

Pouncing isn’t supposed to be a “oh let me just spam pounce till I latch the enemy”

[deep escarp]

i think pounce is balanced atm the only thing i would say is dismounting is buggy asf and vs a good stego you can die of just dismounting

[languid frost]

Supposedly evrima was meant to be more accurate and realistic not a Hollywood movie based game

[dawn falcon]

Where did you get that

[silent comet]

yes its not supposed to be this way, it would be broken

[grave veldt]

what when was it supposed to be realstic lol

[alpine plover]

“realistic”

[vagrant mural]

Have you ever played the isle or seen anything regarding it

[alpine plover]

does evrima even exist

“accurate”

[languid frost]

Well that's the thing, utahs are weak per se, and they're punished if they don't fight good, why others aren't?

[golden coral]

Then don't let go at the same time, time it together, and you can still use the rest for extra distraction. Not that you're meant to hunt a stego in 4-5 groups, add 2-3 utahs and you'll still get that stego most likely. Though I do agree the dismount could use some finetuning. But then stego needs a better way to hit the utahs when they try to get on, maybe add a sort of "windup" movement so you can see and swing if you're watching them.

[alpine plover]

they are

[golden coral]

Depends on what parts you meant were supposed to be realistic. But this is a JP fan game in a sense, see rex, utah, spino, and so on. So yeah.. :p

[vagrant mural]

We have a carno that goes at near cheetah speeds that rams shit with horns, a Utah that isn’t a slow ambush predator that tried to rip off allo, a completely insane hypsi design, etc

[silent comet]

it was a example, u just get 1 tapped if u end ur pounce what makes no sense in using the pounce

[grave veldt]

prolly cuz ur fighting something bigger and stronger then you

[deep escarp]

im pretty sure i seen somewhere that the devs said they are going to work more on a balanced game other realism this time around so it doesnt end up like legacy.

[vagrant mural]

Everything is

[languid frost]

Look I know all about elders, hyperendocrin dinos, and whatever you want, I just mentioned something I've read once, was an answer from a dev to someone asking about it

[sudden field]

they are. teno wastes its stam on spam kicks/tail slams? dead. carno doesn't manage its stamina? dead. deino goes on land? dead.

[solid storm]

So they make all new unbalanced crap that needs balanced, seems like a repeat of legacy

[grave veldt]

look utah is 1 hour and 15 minutes to grow u cannot expect it to be god

[silent comet]

so utahs should only fight juvs and dryos or what?

[grave veldt]

if their alone yes

[vagrant mural]

Solo yeah

[golden coral]

It makes sense if you need to stack bleed to wear something down. The headshot strategy is a bit of an issue, and should be worked on. But I do agree that the pounce should be the main mechanic for utah and what they primarily use when hunting.

[solid storm]

Except I like Legacy WAY more than the state of evirma and I think the pbase agree's.

[vagrant mural]

Utah is supposed to be like a gatekeeper per se

[languid frost]

Well prolly they use that as an excuse to keep some dinos nerfed and they don't care about it when they want others OP

[deep escarp]

Utah is fine if you are solo dont go fighting alone, they are pack dinos!

[grave veldt]

^

[vagrant mural]

You hunt small shit alone, but stuff in groups, it’s how utahs supposed to function

[deep escarp]

unless of course you have the balls to then so be it but if you die dont complain

[vagrant mural]

Hell it’s even integrated into its pounce design

[silent comet]

utah just needs a better/fixed pounce mechanic

[brittle bronze]

You can't avoid the stego tail hit after a dismount anymore, its just rare if it misses you due to latency

[solid storm]

Yeah well there risk vs reward for pack fighting kinda sucks, even with grow time.

[languid frost]

8 utahs can't do shit against 5 carnos, for each carno you fight you need to add one utah, so 2v1, 5v2, 8v3...

[golden coral]

That makes sense though?

[deep escarp]

On the test server sure you could fight a stego alone but not anymore

[golden coral]

Utahs biggest issue is that most of the roster are .. not exactly things they should ever approach :p

[grave veldt]

whats the issue here?

[vapid fable]

didn't know they changed it

[silent comet]

overpopulation and the lack of skill needed to play carno makes it broken

[solid storm]

In a game with limited dinos I don't think they have a choice?

[vapid fable]

you can't complain about overpopulation when there's 2 land carnivores...

[grave veldt]

dryos? hypsis?

[silent comet]

when did u last see some1 play dryo or hypsy

[brittle bronze]

you can position yourself in such a way on the old dismount to guarantee a tail hit doing 5% damage, I've solo'd stegos doing this, but with the new hitbox changes its 100% chance to hit a utah in dismount

[vagrant mural]

I have seen many Dryo’s and hypsis

[grave veldt]

literally just today

[golden coral]

And that's why they should have planned this out better :p Stego should not have been added, I get deino cause mechanics, but that's about it. What basically should have been a thing would be dryo/hypso for solo utahs, and then tenno for the small/medium packs, depending on tenno herd. With carnos being there to cull the utahs in turn + contesting them for dryos.

[vagrant mural]

Also I feel like people forget Ptera is in fact a prey option

[silent comet]

lucky you then

[vagrant mural]

And Utah is probably the best at killing it

[vapid fable]

gotcha, that's a interesting change, don't know if they made that on purpose

[silent comet]

u can 1v1 teno as utah fairly easy if u avoid its tailslam

[brittle bronze]

it was not intentionally aimed at utahs, it was an overall change. However it just made us all realise how un viable pounce is right now.

[golden coral]

Which would point to an balance issue since tenno is designed to win over a utah 1v1, and take 2-3 to take down safely and all.

[silent comet]

yup

[alpine plover]

“if you avoid the thing that kills you its easy”

[dawn falcon]

A teno can kill a Utah fairly easy if it saved its stamina

[alpine plover]

pounce is fine

[grave veldt]

if the teno plays smart its not gonna die honestly

[solid storm]

Well you should learn how to claw attack, I think most people forget without knowing the dino how can you suggest balance?

[brittle bronze]

you're kidding?

[grave veldt]

use claw attacks

[alpine plover]

it just needs that bug patched out

and the other bug

[silent comet]

teno is kinda bad comparing to other dinos, it has a high skill cap and its not as rewarding

[dawn falcon]

Either way, it’s a 50/50 fight with a Utah and a teno so no side is stronger than the other

[brittle bronze]

there is no bug with pounce right now, its a delayed dismount that was intended by the devs

[grave veldt]

this completely false

[golden coral]

@brittle bronzeTo be fair, it was utahs tailtanking that made that change important :p

[ripe zinc]

why stagger the dismount to minimize casualties when you can just not pounce and all survive?

[grave veldt]

teno is actually probably one of the best dinos in the game rn

[alpine plover]

the recent change lead to a unintended guaranteed death for pounce

[brittle bronze]

laughs in carno

[solid storm]

^

[alpine plover]

thats a bug

[languid frost]

I'll repeat this, utah can kill tenos 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, the same way tenos can kill utahs 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 and more; utahs barely can fight or even survive carnos 1v1 and even 2v1, 2v2 is kinda hard, 3v3 impossible, you really can't see isn't balanced at all?

[golden coral]

And that's not how the balance has been designed to be, so that might be an issue :p

[grave veldt]

[silent comet]

idk i 1v1ed alot of tenos as utah and won most of the times

[brittle bronze]

pounce is shit right now, denio, teno, carno and stego can land a hit 100% of the time on a dismount.

[grave veldt]

carno is literally made to hunt utahs down as a prey item

[golden coral]

True enough! Which is weird in it's own way.

[brittle bronze]

stego can 1shot a utah dismounting

[solid storm]

Teno is actually very good most use the bite attack instead of the bleeding claw attack that is just near carno's bite force?

[vapid fable]

you're justifying fighting something 4 times your weight

[alpine plover]

yes thats the bug im talking about

[dawn falcon]

Sorry it’s more 60/40, but yeah

[brittle bronze]

what bug do you speak of

[dawn falcon]

Teno vs. Caron tho is a 50/50

Caron

[brittle bronze]

false

[alpine plover]

the bug you were talking about

[dawn falcon]

Carno

[dawn falcon]

Oh really

[golden coral]

No, cause carno is designed to opress utah. Tenno, while being a fighter, is not designed quite as much for that. It's more of a dangerous prey, or should be.

[dawn falcon]

Enlighten me