Is the arguement just the 180 alt bite, not a forward facing alt bite?
#balance-feedback-discussion
slender cargo
mellow fable
bait hits, force bites on your tail
yes
180 or to the side
if i run into its mouth and get bit, then im retarded
slender cargo
I'd be okay with it costing stamina, If only the deino did more damage per bite.
Surely you can see that makes sense.
earnest spoke
mellow fable
it should be easy to get hits on the deino
slender cargo
As the deino is 8tons
mellow fable
from the sides
golden coral
It does enough damage
slender cargo
Baha, yeah okay.
golden coral
You could still add stamina cost to alt, it'd be fine anyway I'm pretty sure
rich fractal
only if land animals are worse when attacking in the river. both or neither
slender cargo
I personally probably will barley play deino, once you see more apex released ect.
halcyon slate
nah deino are affective on land and it is retarded in both logic and game balance
mellow fable
a little bit more damage doesnt bother me, theres just no real strategy
like theres huge strategies for all land dino matchups
with deino its just
try not to get bit, but its kind of a dice roll
slender cargo
Okay, so how is a deino effective in water when It can't latch onto every dino?
slender cargo
I don't think the deino should be able to pickup every dino.
halcyon slate
it is an ambush dino
slender cargo
I'm talking just latch onto.
mellow fable
i am fine with it being able to grab shit
slender cargo
And deal daamge.
mellow fable
thats its identity
mellow fable
when u picture a crocodile its an image of one popping out of the water to grab something
halcyon slate
it work
slender cargo
I ambush to, but like I said earlier.
mellow fable
and people are smart and drink in shallow water i get it but there is almost always a time where you take a risky drink
slender cargo
Every one goes to the shallows to drink.
mellow fable
or you need to cross
theres a few spots where its deep enough to hide but shallow enough where people feel safe to cross
halcyon slate
and drinking water is already a dice roll if you can't kill stuff that drink and you fight on land you play it wrong
mellow fable
plus ive literally had a deino grab my fully grown carno
while most of its body was on land
and drag me into the water
and kill me outright
slender cargo
Yeah, I've done that to I think its pretty dumb.
How a deino can be on land, pick you up and run you into water.
I agreee there.
mellow fable
i think its a little silly but
in the grand scheme of thing if we are adding stamina cost we cant take away too much
or it will suck
slender cargo
I dunno, I think it depends on how much stamina it would use personally.
mellow fable
and i like the creature, i just dont play it anymore because of the cannibalistic dickheads who target adult deinos with packs of 2 or more
slender cargo
And see how deino is against other dinos in future.
mellow fable
something similar to the teno tail slap would be alright
slender cargo
10 alt bites on land?
mellow fable
yes
slender cargo
That seems to low to me.
mellow fable
yeah but again, it should be a self defense thing
you are attacking to keep people off of you when travelling to new waters
shouldnt be like you are sprinting out of the water down a field
slender cargo
I'll say this, without alt bite on land a deino is useless, but yeah a deino shouldnt be on land.
mellow fable
to fight some dude
slender cargo
But when every dino goes to the shallows to drink, you'll see deinos coming on land.
mellow fable
and when a deino sits there and attacks it gives very defensive vibes
but it is always played so aggressively
like they run up and just sit there
on top of your food that you now cant eat because 50% of the server is deinosuchus and they can run out of the water and sit there
halcyon slate
a group of 7 utah should have the advantage on land vs croc a croc should have adventage against 7 utah near water that it
slender cargo
I think that the server being 50% deino is just because of the lack of dinos though./
mellow fable
ofc
mellow fable
thats why i want it to be changed now, it wouldnt be much work from the devs
to add
id understand a smaller pack of raptors dying to a deino since it cant be pounced
its a tricky target, but for carnos its just kinda sad
slender cargo
I think the deino needs another mechanic though, to grab onto big deinos by water and deal a bunch of damage or bleed.
mellow fable
well id imagine a death roll
would be suitable
use your lunge and then left click instead of running back to the water
to deal a bunch of damage on land at the cost of significant stamina
thinking of it like more of a finisher
slender cargo
Okay but then you have no stamina on land and can't do anything then what.
mellow fable
yes but the enemy is dead
slender cargo
mhm
mellow fable
so u eat him
and are happy
if they added something like that itd be effective against fully grown raptors and small carnos and i think nothing more
slender cargo
Either way I'm about to go but, I think that the alt turn bite shouldn't cost stam but thats me and if it does it can't be 10 alt bites and you're out of stam, thats way to little.
slender cargo
I hate carno with passion.
mellow fable
but just try, youll hate it even more
slender cargo
And I've seen carnos fuck deinos up on land.
halcyon slate
and raptor pounce animation is too slow it is more rewarding to bite
mellow fable
they can if they are skilled
slender cargo
At least when its a solo deino.
mellow fable
but they shouldnt need all this skill
to take on something in its ideal environment
slender cargo
So answer me this, the spino.
Should this be a land or water dino?
Where should it dominate?
slender cargo
Okay, so rex should destroy them on land?
mellow fable
i would hope so
slender cargo
Because something tells me a lot of players won't be happy on that lol.
halcyon slate
again saying that a keep something just not accurate because another op dino will be here is stupid
mellow fable
but a spino getting the ambush from water on a rex would win
idk why a spino would beat a rex on land
people are idiots man
theyll be like
how come the hypsi cant spit across the map, blind an enemy and then that dino should have no eyes for the rest of its life
slender cargo
Bit exadurated but okay 😛
mellow fable
people just say really dumb shit sometimes though
u know?
if you have all these apexes, they have to have scenarios where one wins and the other loses
and you can pick and choose those battles
that just makes sense
like maybe the giga would be able to win against a rex if you can catch him offguard and have him chase you while bleeding or run off
but in a head-on confrontation the rex wins. just as an example
slender cargo
Well gigas could win against rex in legacy.
slender cargo
Anyway, we will see what happens maybe in time deino alt bite will cost stam.
halcyon slate
to comeback to deino the problem is they are affective where they should not
slender cargo
I honestly think in a pack of good carnos, I could kill a deino on land but alright.
halcyon slate
you realise that
mellow fable
is my point
halcyon slate
look at modern crock
slender cargo
Well, this ain't real life its a game.
mellow fable
why do u need seal team 6 to fight 1 deino
yes, and it needs to be fun and fair for every party
or it is not a game people want to play
halcyon slate
Well, this ain't real life its a game.
admiting that it is wrong
mellow fable
they do run pretty far out just to challenge us
slender cargo
Anyways, Rev you herd my point we shall see haha.
mellow fable
yeah, take it easy man
slender cargo
Peace
mellow fable
glad we can come to some agreement
halcyon slate
they do run 30ft on land to fight you
slender cargo
But I will say this for sure.
As a deino that has ran on land and grabbed carnos and ran to water.
I think thats dumb lol
halcyon slate
deino need to be changed on land 100%
proud anchor
It seriously looks like people spend more time meming about their bias than they do talking about balance here.
slender cargo
Just one last thing as well, as every one shits on the deino If the deino can't grab it if its to heavy, what ever dino it is it can literally just moveaway after getting bitten once and the deino can't do a damn thing.
proud anchor
Then it doesn't need that kill.
If it can't pick up something that is too heavy, it should be less incentivized to attack it.
What's the problem?
sinful cove
Pteranodon isn't meant to be an active predator so he has no need for zooming vision
wild coral
deino need to be changed on land 100%
its not dumb, happens in real life also
and dino can tank a lot because of its hard scales, making it weak defies how life works
and no one approaches croc on land unless its young, because its death sentence so yeah croc needs to be more overpowering
crystal wharf
deino needs no changes
its perfectly fine
we just need animals that can challenge it
wild coral
i would argue with that, it needs a bit changes, fully grown croc needs to be a threat to stego also, not on land but no stego should be coming near water with confidence
but yeah otherwise croc is just fine
only problem is that there is too many of them
i wish developers would force a balance, spices limit on server at least some of the servers should have it for role playing and some servers for pure pvping
verbal cradle
Pteranodon isn't meant to be an active predator so he has no need for zooming vi...
Obviously it's not an active predator. But it would for sure help to see unguarded bodies from a distance that is out of scent range. It would especially help trying to find fish ripples in the water.
sinful cove
Fish ripples are very visible already, as far as finding bodies go it should simply be able to smell corpses from a considerably larger range than most other dinos
Its already weird to smell tracks while flying, it doesnt need more adaptions to try and play hunter, if a flyer gets zooming vision it should be a predatory one like quetz or something
verbal cradle
Again, I'm not saying it should play hunter. It can be easily killed by most things in the game. And yeah, during the day and relatively close to the water's surface, the ripples can be easy to spot. I'm not sure if what I'm about to say next to too relevant because night vision hasn't been implemented yet, but the ripples are much harder to see at night. Not only that, but to help spot predators that might be in the area when you need to land and there aren't any safe rocks nearby.
hollow canyon
its perfectly fine
idk about that. With the changes that the latest patch has introduced it's by far the best animal in the game
hollow canyon
And that's an enormous change for it
hollow canyon
Deinosuchus is the only animal in the game that this change favours in every match up
everything else likes this change in some match ups but dislikes in others
Deino is the exception, it's the biggest winner of the last patch
golden coral
@warm tulip No, because that won't take the utah out of the fight. Besides, it's not that slow, and you can use your packmates to help provide distraction or deliver punishment. Maybe if stamina took ages to refill, but it doesn't, and that would be issues in other ways.
warm tulip
Distraction from pack mates is not realistic. If a carnivore sees a vulnerable utah it will go for that immediately.
golden coral
Distraction is absolutely realistic, unless that carni think it's worth killing one of you only to die to the rest
golden coral
So you'd lose one utah vs one fellow utah or something bigger? Not sure that's a bad trade honestly.
warm tulip
This does not dispute the fact that it would not take so long to regain yourself to flee from a fight. You wouldn't slowly push yourself back up.
golden coral
They lost far more than you guys did, and you now have the rest of the pack to care for you regrowing. I wouldn't say that's bad, and I would also point out that currently, there's no reason to care. In the future, hopefully that'll change, and that might dissuade the whole "I'm taking you down no matter what" mentality that might exist for now
From what I know, it doesn't take that long, but I could go try it out when I got some time.
But the miss has to have an actual risk, make it too fast, and it won't matter if you missed.
warm tulip
But like I said, if you lose a lot of stam for a failed pounce you have to flee the fight to regain stam to rejoin it, giving what ever you missed your pounce on a chance to run.
golden coral
Problem is, it won't keep you out long enough to matter.
Not to mention that in that case, your pack can still follow and harass them
warm tulip
But they can do the same thing when a utah pack mate is insta killed after a failed pounce. A failed special attack should not mean insta death, ya know? No other dino is penalized as heavily as a utah is for failing a missed special attack.
golden coral
It doesn't mean instadeath unless you end up really close to the target. And most others do not have special attacks.. :p
Only utah, deino and carno, and carnos is.. well, good if you hit, which is an entirely different issue in it's own way :p
Deino is admittedly powerful
warm tulip
Deino can lunge, steggo tail swipe, carno charge, teno buck and tail slam .-.
golden coral
Tail swipe is a normal attack
warm tulip
and if you miss a pounce you are literally RIGHT beside your target haha
warm tulip
They are not normal attacks
golden coral
What part of a stego swing is not normal?!.. :p
warm tulip
It has a bite and then a swing.
golden coral
I could possibly grant you the tenno tail, but even so, that's a normal attack. It's still just an attack, like any other. A fancy one but still.
....
warm tulip
and the teno has 4 attacks, non of which are penalized if they miss.
golden coral
You can not be serious..
The stego bite is hardly it's normal attack
Unlike utah who has a useful bite + alt bite/lunge
warm tulip
Okay, the point is, the utah needs SOMETHING to be able to stand a chance to take on a proper size meal for a large pack, that is the pounce. If they miss a pounce they instantly die making it not worth using and making it where you will not survive hunting larger dinos.
Dude, you need to learn more about all the different attacks they can do xD
golden coral
Well, from what I've practiced, you don't miss a pounce on a stego
Who would be the only one to actually oneshot you
And the others are weak enough that they will be vunerable to the rest if they decide to stop and finish someone off, more or less at least
I know about all the attacks, we just differ in what constitutes a special attack vs normal one :p
candid latch
If you don't play utah you can't rly say anything
candid latch
Not as much as us
warm tulip
I main utah, and I promise you, the stagger animation is unrealistic and unfair. I have seen people die almost every time they fail a pounce even with a full pack to help.
golden coral
But you know, fine. I'll take that, it just means most people can't say much about stego then xD
warm tulip
We aren't talking about a steggo haha
candid latch
We are talking about utah and carno
golden coral
Well, there has to be a punishment for missing
warm tulip
steggo is balanced and realistic
warm tulip
the punishment should be stam loss not instant death
What other dinosaur gets instantly killed when it uses any form of attack?
golden coral
But fine, I won't say anything about utah if you don't say anything about stego :p
warm tulip
Haha I don't dislike stegos haha
golden coral
But utah do not get instakilled from missing a pounce
It might get killed if it ends up too close to the target
warm tulip
Oh my gosh, bro, the only times I have died is from missed pounces during combat.
hollow canyon
The punishment used to be just the stamina loss, it was a no factor though
warm tulip
Then the stam loss wasn't enough to be punishment. I am not saying the utah should be able to spam pounces I think one pounce miss should put you out of a fight until you regen stam.
hollow canyon
While I agree that Utah should recover faster after missing the pounce it having a recovery phase after missing it is fine
It's not like pounce is an ability that's hard to miss
warm tulip
It is on a carno xD
golden coral
You're not very liable to miss a pounce vs a stego, and missing vs utah/tenno, while risky, still requires them to go get you, during which point they are vunerable.
hollow canyon
I personally view the fact that Utah has a bit of a delay after disengaging the pounce as a far bigger issue
golden coral
And while a carno or tenno might be willing to trade right now
warm tulip
It's not against those types. It's against the hoards of carnos that target utahs xD
golden coral
I doubt they will when lives are a bit more valuable
Well, a carno pack should be scary for a utah pack to engage, they're.. sort of meant to take you out :p
hollow canyon
I haven't had much issues pouncing Carnos either. You can do it pretty much from point blank and the game will readjust your position anyways.
warm tulip
But 2 carnos vs a full pack should be doomed.
golden coral
how many is a full pack to you?
warm tulip
8 is full
candid latch
8
golden coral
Noted. Yes, that should be plenty enough to take out 2 carnos.
warm tulip
But, if you miss a pounce, and you are stuck in the pounce animation they target you.
golden coral
8 utahs should be solid vs everything except other full groups, even taking out a solo stego easily.
warm tulip
We counted that it takes on average 4 seconds to recover and with carno turn being so good now, they can turn and be right on you and land 3-4 bites.
hollow canyon
It should definitely take less than 4 seconds. I think I've raised the point that it takes way too long
golden coral
Maybe it needs a second shaved off, but it should still be that if you land too close to the target, you should be doomed.
hollow canyon
When I first missed the pounce in the open beta I had a feeling like the recovery phase took as long as when you fall down after depleting your stamina
golden coral
The point would be that if you do miss, you're vunerable and at risk of dying, otherwise it wouldn't matter.
hollow canyon
Which absolutely shouldn't be a thing
golden coral
Well no, falling down should be doom. Getting stunned should be a "oh crap, please dont see that" moment rather
warm tulip
If you miss there should be a penalty absolutely, but I don't think it should be a 4 second, stand up and brush your pants off before fleeing combat haha
hollow canyon
Yes and as it seems they are about the same, the recovery after failing the pounce shouldn't last that long
golden coral
Nah, could probably take it down to 1-2 secs. And as for the dismount, just let the utah hit the ground running.
warm tulip
I can completely agree with that. That's what I have been saying.
golden coral
That way you're still in risk if you're being focused, but even an instant of looking away should be enough to get you to at last tailrange
hollow canyon
I feel like the punishment should be appropriate to the mistake made e.g. hitting a tree while pouncing should cause you to be CCed longer than when you just hit the ground
golden coral
I think they did speed one of them up though? Have you guys tested latest patch and all?
warm tulip
I literally just played utah and died because of the stagger animation xD
golden coral
Still sitting at 4 sec, or did you just die immediately? :p
warm tulip
It took a little past 4 seconds to regain control of the utah, and by then I was bit 3-4 times by the carno, with 4 utahs in a pack.
warm tulip
Yeah T^T
golden coral
I guess the issue to me is that there needs to be a decent way to make the utahs back off, or die
Cause deterrents dont work very well in this game
warm tulip
I agree
golden coral
People will throw themselves at you even if they just barely survive
warm tulip
That's what stam drain would do
golden coral
And I guess thats why Im a bit hesistant to just go with stamina drain, unless it has a noticable effect
warm tulip
a utah without stam is useless. So if you miss a pounce and loose almost all of your stam you are forced to retreat.
lose**
golden coral
Yeh, if missing did just cut everything but a couple seconds of running to get the hell out of there, that would work
Even if you missed from max stamina
That might work decently well, keep enough to allow for running away, but thats about it
warm tulip
I think you should be heavily penalized from stam loss if you miss a pounce to where all you have is enough to flee and hide. Then you have to lay down and spend several minutes to get back to full stam to reenter the fight and be useful again.
golden coral
Yeh, it's not a bad idea if it completely cuts the stamina
But then it'd have to do that from max stamina too, so you don't still have a bunch of "I can miss a few times" before it matters :p
warm tulip
Exactly, you have to have full stam to be useful, so if you miss a pounce on full stam you have to completely regain full stam to pounce again.
I don't want utah over powered, I just don't wanna die to silly things like my utah staring at the ground for 5 seconds before it runs from combat.
golden coral
Yeah, I'm fine with that, put the stun down to a second, or something, just to show something happened, and then drain stamina from that "impact", and it should be fine.
warm tulip
Exactly what I want.
golden coral
I'm inclined to say some sort of stun should happen, if only to show players they did an oops :p
Not just drain stamina "for no reason"
warm tulip
Agreed, I would be okay with a 1-2 second stagger and run, but nothing that makes you an instant target. Which you are if you are idol for 4-5 seconds.
golden coral
But yeah, sounds good. That + work on the dismount, either distance if needed, or just let utahs run immediately, so they can get out of range very quickly as long as they get off on their own.
warm tulip
Yes, I agree, if you are foolish and don't dismount before you drain your stam or before smacking into a tree then yes, you should be penalized.
But strategic utah players should not be getting killed just because they missed a pounce because landing on a carno running in zigzags can be tricky and you will miss at some point, if not most of the time.
golden coral
Catch them unawares, use the foliage clusters :p
warm tulip
Not always possible when you are in the middle of a field haha
golden coral
True enough, but well, that's carno prime terrain, makes sense you're not at your best there to be honest
Need to lure em to you, hide the pack, have one of you bork to make the carnos chase, then jump em!
warm tulip
We weren't going there for a carno, we were hunting something else and he jumped in. The situation that triggered this post after all.
golden coral
Rude carno! :p
warm tulip
Trust me, I know how to hunt with utah my guy. This is not about sneaking them into the right place, it's about not getting messed up when you miss a pounce basically haha
golden coral
But part of that is to make sure there's little to no risk of missing in the first place ;)
Besides, I know the pain, I play stego. I have to constantly look around for trees or rocks to hide behind :p
warm tulip
No, there should be risk, it's stam drain, if you have no stam as a utah you are dead, so you have to be smart with your pounce and your stam
golden coral
Yeh yeh, I agree with your idea, more or less. I can still think it's better to minimize the risk of missing a pounce in the first place!
Or at least a good idea to have things as planned out as they can be
But that might be me being a bit paranoid from roaming on my own most of the time
warm tulip
Haha, anyone should be paranoid if they find a full pack of utahs when they're alone.
golden coral
Yeah, if I run into more than 3-4 utahs on my own I'm pretty much dead unless they mess up. I'd like it if it was more or less required to have 5-6 at least for a decent chance vs a solo stego, but if you show up with 7-8 then yeah, it shouldn't be a question unless some very specific circumstances possibly.
warm tulip
I can agree with that. When I hunt with a small pack I don't try for a steggo because it's dumb. But when my pack is full I will go for anything tbh, except for stupid carnos because you miss pounces more often then other targets and when you do they kill you immediately. That's the only reason I want the penalty for pounce misses to change.
alpine plover
@storm summit
how are you dying to baby utahs?
.............
ptera can hunt juives fine
storm summit
<@!380461763302391810>
how are you dying to baby utahs?
Honestly, it happens when I’m perched either on a rock or on land eating or drinking and they simply run up behind me and spam bite. If I try to fly away I just immediately go into a crash landing animation and continue being bitten til I die. If I turn to defend myself I die before the baby utah dies.
alpine plover
Honestly, it happens when I’m perched either on a rock or on land eating or drin...
thats you're fault for getting ambushed imo
storm summit
Furthermore, I tested it to see if it’s just me being a fail ptera and no, I was successfully able to kill adult pteras perched on rocks as a baby new spawn utah.
storm summit
I disagree. I think it’s a bug or mechanic that prevents ptera escaping. Additionally it means that baby utahs do higher damage than adult pteras
alpine plover
I disagree. I think it’s a bug or mechanic that prevents ptera escaping. Additio...
This is just..... not true
adult ptera has a 75N biteforce and adult utah is like below the 30s
proud anchor
Yeah... Well... If you get hit... There is a sprint takeoff, because you were ambushed. Evade, and fly away.
alpine plover
you got ambushed and died, I dont see the issue
storm summit
You’re missing the point, though. Like a ptera should be able to face tank a baby utah or at least escape when the baby utah is spam biting BEHIND the ptera
proud anchor
Sprint takeoff.
alpine plover
You’re missing the point, though. Like a ptera should be able to face tank a bab...
its a twig, ptera looks like it would die to a baby utah
and it can just fly away
of course you couldn't, because you got ambushed
which is how the game works
storm summit
I guess you’ve never seen what blue herons can do to animals? Or seagulls eating rabbits?
storm summit
I appreciate your feedback. But my grievance is meant for the critical consideration of the devs, not really something I’d ever wanted to argue contrarians with.
proud anchor
Don't take the high road, kid.
Sprint.
Takeoff.
Go test it now.
Have a nice day.
alpine plover
now thats a bit rude zeo
But yeah, its his fault for dying
he played bad and got punished, thats how I see it at least
proud anchor
He expressed that it is an intended feature, but ignores the mechanic to avoid being eatin by lazily holding spacebar thinking it's the win button.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
storm summit
That’s a gross misinterpretation of the described situation. Additionally I am not a him and this exchange has completely sapped any interest i ever might’ve had for your perspective anyway. So essentially, no you, have a nice day. 😉
proud anchor
Don't care about your perspective, guy.
You're ignoring reason, anyway.
Enjoy dying because the skill curve is too high for you 😘
quiet linden
Well that's a bit rude
storm summit
No worries, I sorted it out by blocking that person so I didn’t see it anyway.
storm summit
But I do appreciate constructive and respectful feedback so, thanks Dio.
quiet linden
Entropic, your problem is solved with the sprint fly though.
Zeo was definitely right about that.
proud anchor
Uh huh 💯
storm summit
Yeah, I hadn’t actually tried that. After Dio’s suggestion I’ve considered giving it a go as a workable solution.
quiet linden
Definitely.
proud anchor
It was actually my suggestion, but okay 🤣🤣🤣
quiet linden
There's been multiple situations where I had to escape a Deino or I failed an ambush against a Pteranodon, all because of the sprint flight.
storm summit
I think the reason I didn’t try it is because I was killed too swiftly when perched on the rock to try it and when I was drinking it was the baby utah on one side ans water on the other. Heh. But I’m still new and awkward with ptera, so surely there is a learning curve as much as a skill curve. Regardless, I do appreciate constructive criticism. I’m not sure attacking me rudely was entirely warranted by my experiences or opinions lol.
quiet linden
I think the reason I didn’t try it is because I was killed too swiftly when perc...
If you're on a rock, you can jump off of it and take off, don't worry
proud anchor
This is a chat for discussion on your issues, if you take the high road, you're going to have the pedestal you've placed yourself on quickly dismantled.
quiet linden
Yeah, but Zeo you handled the situation completely incorrectly.
proud anchor
¯_(ツ)_/¯ Take it up with someone who cares. I'm just here to offer support, if I'm spoken to like I'm the issue, before even being acknowledged as being a part of the conversation when I've offered a solution, then by all means, nail me to the stake.
I have him a bone. He discarded it, and acted like he was above it.
I'm getting real tired of this community's ignorant tone.
cobalt slate
But I do appreciate constructive and respectful feedback so, thanks Dio.
If i may add, I have been able to do the standing takeoff while being attacked by a juvi utah. I'm thinking the "invisible wall" problem could possibly be caused by desync and/or body collision overlap? Thats just my theory as to what happens tho. I will say that, when you are able to, the running takeoff is definitely a lifesaver!
proud anchor
storm summit
@cobalt slate thanks! I’d considered that as a possibility as well. I sometimes notice weird hitbox displacement or jerky, no smooth flight animations when flying with other pteras. A few of us will be smoothly but one or two will be kinda choppy. So the thought had definitely crossed my mind.
cobalt slate
<@216613173275525121> thanks! I’d considered that as a possibility as well. I so...
No problem! And yea, I've experienced the odd hitboxes too. Sometimes I'm able to fly super close to other pteras, and other times i hit them from a few feet away lol.
storm summit
I’ve also noticed on some rivers the water is actually a good distance above where it seems like it is?? Makes skimming a lol situation 😄
cobalt slate
I haven't personally encountered that one, but i don't doubt that happens lol.
But anyway, happy i could add some input on your problem! I hope you have a nice day :)
storm summit
Yeah it kinda looks like you’re swimming in the air above the river. Funny stuff.
Thanks, you too. 
crystal wharf
@alpine plover i like this idea
proper zephyr
same
gives deino players reason to manage their stamina carefully in the water and pull off calculated ambushes rather then just right click on something and be done with it
alpine plover
I'm getting real tired of this community's ignorant tone.
this is…. ironic to say the least
proud anchor
Mhm.
Look down one's nose at definition is - to think of or treat (someone or something) as unimportant or not worthy of respect.
Oh...
Also..
In reality, baby Utah should have pounce from the beginning, so they have a reason for tearing out the throat of a Pterra.
💘
Glitches and issues aside, this should be a thing that is implemented anyway. I'd say something like "Change my mind" but you really can't.
Carno gets to sprint from babby, so Uwuti should have it's ability too. Same goes for Deino's lunge.
left scroll
yeah tbh i really don't think ptera should be losing to baby utahs unless they're taken totally by surprise
bite forces aside, baby utah is just.... tiny. it can fit in ptera's beak.
ptera still wouldn't be a good baby killer because baby utahs are so tiny and agile, they'd be hard to even grab in the first place. but if one really wants to pick a fight, I don't feel they should win
proud anchor
If it had pounce, sure. I could see it.
In the end... honest fix?
Make the Pterra have to sprint to fly (when attacked), and buff it's HP pool.
Therefore it is tankier to smaller baby/juvi, but requires a skill check when attacked.
left scroll
yeah, if a baby utah could pounce onto the ptera where it's beak can't reach, the ptera is screwed
and in that scenario, rightfully so
proud anchor
No one's complaining that the Deino can oneshot anything that's drinking, however, when the Utah can't pounce, it's kind of silly to not have an ability at birth due to errors with the game.
I searched everywhere but can't find anything on why the Utahs don't have pounce from birth. Got anything on that?
proud anchor
I really want to know, man... 
left scroll
but i get the feeling it's intentional, its been this way since the start
proud anchor
No no, that's not proper conclusion for the following reason:
Baby was not added until later, and the ability uses the adult's hitbox to decide latch points, I'd assume.
I'm wondering if it's a reasoning of scaling, and other things. The adult Utah's pounce isn't without it's issue people want to see changed, as well.
I can only assume it's coming, I'm just wondering if it's been addressed.
Deino is simple grab of the whole animal, or not.
In the Utie's case, it's more like different points, sizes, ranges over age and Utah's size, and sofourth. A lot more than just "Dino go in mouf" I feel.
Here's to hoping it's something I'm overlooking.
Same goes for the Carno, as well. "Ram things. Size Calculation. Damage. Knock based on tonnage."
I'm no develioper, but I'd assume the Utah's is just a little more complicated, which is likely why we can't latch the Deino quite yet, either.
slim dragon
Baby Utah can't pounce because it's bugged
brittle bronze
No one's complaining that the Deino can oneshot anything that's drinking, howeve...
back when pounce was first introduced it was glitchy, you'd fall through the map pouncing as the hit boxes are fucked, welcome the isle. Anyhow - rather than fix it, it was just easier to have pounce only for those at 100% growth.
proud anchor
I hope this is temporary.
brittle bronze
me too brother
proud anchor
It'd be a really useful tool for surviving in what is otherwise a cruel island, with already very limited kit.
brittle bronze
I agree, i don't agree a baby should pounce though, maybe 50% +
proud anchor
Right, a little bigger, but it'd be really fucking cute for a baby Uty to pounce a baby gator, ya know? 
brittle bronze
Thank god the devs don't design things based on cuteness huh? lmao
proud anchor
Size Limits until full-grown, much like the Deino's bite. Or some other factoring? Such as scaled damage on much too big targets, ect. The babbo feels so useless, where the Deino can grab babos, which is also cute, but versatile as a method to get the kill.
brittle bronze
babies are suppose to be useless that's the point of nesting eventually.
proud anchor
All I can think in the situation where my newborn Utah is grabbed by a newborn gator is.. "Lucky... Wish I had something like that.."
Sure, I don't understand nesting thoroughly, however I'd like to see the youngin Utahs be able to at least be annoying.
Such as: Low HP on a larger target, buck cost stamina based on the size of the target it's bucking?
That way there's a balance, risk-reward, and the baby raptor, juvi, ect, can work together to be a menace.
brittle bronze
they already are annoying, the can reapply bleed, keep something from wallowing
they have to be very careful if they make changes
proud anchor
Sure, sure. Where I'm not entirely disagreeing, I just feel the youngling is too useless, compared to all the other dinos which are born with their kit, is all.
Something like bucking drains stam really fast, and they don't have much stam to begin with, ya follow?
So, for the baby to pounce would be insane risk to the attacker.
There are ways to balance it to only affect the attacker, is what I'm getting at.
Which would essentially be a number balancing act.
Outside of the general case of the animation and latchpoints, ofc.
In terms of balance, it's actually relatively viable.
Another factor that could balance against the attacker, but give it the kit, is dismount range, make it less. It can't jump nearly as far, so pouncing a full-grown stego wouldn't be the same as pouncing a baby stego in terms of dismout distance and animation cooldown safety window.
Another skill check, but that's just another suggestion of how it could be approached.
Frame data and situational implementation is important. It can't be the end-all.
In the end, I'm really looking at the optimal path for the development team, in terms of really focusing the numbers game, rather than "Add Deathrolls" and "It'd be really cool to see X animation" since that'd be general feedback, rather than balance in the end.
Bit of a redundant sentence, there..
sinful cove
I agree that juvie deinos should be more mobile than adults, but why is someone who “hates PvP” playing on populated servers in a PvP game?
slim dragon
I love how this guy explained to us how gravity works
proud anchor
I love how my hate for this community's snark is well justified and nothing seems to come off as a surprise anymore. Low hanging fruit, almost as low as your own intellectual bar, truly.
👆 Wear that proudly, thank you.
astral obsidian
I agree that juvie deinos should be more mobile than adults, but why is someone ...
Because I bought it in 2016 and, like I said, I like exploring 🤨 I hate horror games but I still play Alien: Isolation (begrudgingly) and Subnautic. I hate PVP but I play OW from time to time. I hate going to work but I still go and get that bread. I hate people but I'm still nice to them.
Just because I hate something doesn't mean I have to exclude it. Unless its bugs.
sinful cove
If you willingly choose to partake in PvP, do you actually hate it?
proud anchor
You'll be much happier when PvE and expanded map options are implemented.
(Let's not kid ourselves... Once AI are in the game full-force, the PvP aspect will be much rarer than in the current constrained and AI-lacking sandbox.)
astral obsidian
I dont partake in PVP unless someone attacks me first because it gives me anxiety.
I think its been years since I actually killed someone. I just go after AI most of the time. Plus, I play on less crowded servers bc the mega packs is getting a wee bit ridiculous but, oh well.
proud anchor
brittle bronze
@astral obsidian in regards to your balance feedback post. You're playing the wrong game if PVP gives you anxiety, the whole game is about surviving, eating other things and running from other things. If you enjoy the exploring part then make a Pteradon.
proud anchor
The game being about anxiety, sure.
However, PvP is not the main focus. This game will ultimately be PvPvE. There is a place for everyone.
Running is always an option in a survival game.
brittle bronze
It's a sandbox game filled with over 100 people, in an enclosed map there is no pve aspect of this game
proud anchor
Uh-huh.
BUT
The map is small.
There's no AI.
And it's not going to always be like that.
brittle bronze
PvP is the main focus btw
proud anchor
Gotta be a little forward looking to this game's reach.
brittle bronze
its literally a pvp game
proud anchor
It is a main focus. However, it doesn't have to be.
brittle bronze
you confuse me
proud anchor
It's going to be flexible like that.
I'd call it a PvA game.
PvP is there, but when everything on the current roadmap is in the game, it won't be the main drive as we see it today. Right now yes. This is a PvP only game. However, after these mechanics, AI, and map changes come into play, 100 players will likely not be too cramped to a single area, and you'll have to ask yourself... "Is that a player?" all the time. Taking your time, and making critical decisions based off of that information.
They said they backed in 2016, as well.
The proof is on their site, if this link goes through:
https://isle.fandom.com/wiki/AI
I never played Legacy, but it had PvE elements, too.
Sandbox mode is a highly requested feature, too.
Sorry to crush that point, but it's really defeatist when you look at the direction they intend to head with the project. That's the kind of thing I'm constantly butting heads against. If there is intended purpose ~ I'll defend it, however if there is unintended application, I'll attempt to at least clear up how I see things.
Perspective is super important when it comes to looking at development.
@stuck nova Yes. That. Yes.
There is no use for the RMB outside of skimming, and the mechanical way of implementing such an attack would be a "Hold" vs "Click" variable which checks for those kinds of differences, rather than spamming over water, you hold and the action is the alternate, in this case, Skimming.
My suggestion would be the special attack would have to be an instant attack, rather than a grab, but maybe we could go one step further and use the "Skimming" mechanic to pick up very small dinos, as if they were fish, too.
I'd like a good damage attack however, both could work.
The skill-check would be your own eyes, and understanding dino weights based on your own size, and we could even compound this into the skills system, that would allow for varying tonnage to be able to be picked up at the cost of skill points. (If that's what they are called)
I just don't know what a baseline addition attack that would very likely cost stamina would be worth the stam, since flying climbing and sprinting are the only uses of stam currently, and a special attack would be nice, but what kind of attack would be suggested to warrant using that precious stamina?
ripe zinc
If you want to explore why on earth do you pick deino in the first place?
sinful cove
Right?? Doesn't like PvP but plays where deino cannibalism is an issue. Likes exploration but picks the worse playable to do it on
proud anchor
I'm sure that will be slightly alleviated once diets are in, if cannibalism debuff is in that dietary mechanic.
I hope it is..
brittle bronze
i don't as if i cant find food you can bet 100% im eating you
proud anchor
Good luck!
slim dragon
Deino cannibalism will never be alleviated with diets
I wouldn't even be surprised to have other deinos be a part of deinos diet ˆˆ
brittle bronze
i'd kill you and leave your body because i can
sinful cove
Same diets aint gonna stop kfs
slim dragon
Well in truth I would be surprised because devs said no dino should have a carnivore in their diet, but not that much
brittle bronze
humans eat humans in survival situations too
sinful cove
In some places it's a part of their culture 
But not very comparable
Alligators just don't care what they eat
slim dragon
Humans get nasty dieases from eating human flesh tho (if they eat too much of it of course)
proud anchor
Dumb animals are dumb, just like Deino players
https://bioone.org/journals/herpetologica/volume-67/issue-2/HERPETOLOGICA-D-10-00040.1/Mortality-of-American-Alligators-Attributed-to-Cannibalism/10.1655/HERPETOLOGICA-D-10-00040.1.fullhttps://academic.oup.com/icb/article/55/6/972/2363255
But seriously. I'm sure it still hurts them in a way, just because they're not smart creatures doesn't mean they're doing it without repercussions exactly.
If anything, their entire diet being cannibalistic, nah ~ that won't fly.
Not even today's alligators are in that situation. Common, but not their only source of food.
slim dragon
Who said it should be their only source of food ?
proud anchor
Uh... Legitimately people who only hunt other gators.
Playing like you don't think this is an option is exactly why they should have negative effects.
slim dragon
Okay, but this is not the point of the discussion. Deino won't be discouraged from cannibalizing, but that doesn't mean they can't eat anything else
They do it because it's the best source of food they have
sinful cove
With a bigger map and more water sources cannibalism probably won't be a viable staple for deino's diet anyway
slim dragon
From what I've understood, diets will reward you for eating the right things, and may punish you for eating wrong things (like your own species) Deinos will probably be rewarded for eating things like carnos or tenontos, and punished for nothing
sinful cove
So it doesnt really matter if people do it when they have the chance at easy food
slim dragon
While other dinos will be punished for eating their own species and rewarded for eating something specific
proud anchor
Won't be discouraged means free-game.
Meaning they could live off of gators alone.
Meaning they're not only not discouraged, its unrealistic.
Furthermore, because only a small proportion of juvenile alligators was tagged, cannibalistic alligators would have had to eat thousands of dead alligators (untagged and tagged) as carrion to achieve the prevalence of tags in stomachs that we observed during this study; that much mortality probably would have required a major disease event that we would have observed during the course of this study.
sinful cove
Unless people crowd at hotspots as deino there shouldnt still be those people who make cannibalism 90% of their diet
proud anchor
Not typical.
slim dragon
They could
But they won't get any benefits from it
proud swan
Let’s face it. Only the babies of this game cry when you get cannibalised. I’ve done it and it’s been done to me. I just accept it and move on. If you put penalties on cannibal players you will indeed discourage Cannibal behaviour BUT there is another grp of players complaining there are too many carnivores running around. If they don’t kill each other who will? Some simps arnt capable. Herbis would be complaining even more about carnis killing them. You can’t please this community either way.
proud anchor
Oh here comes the Deino main 
proud swan
I main Utah hush your mouth
slim dragon
I love people who make assumptions over a single message
proud anchor
Sure ya do.
proud swan
lol
proud anchor
This is an ongoing feud, if you mind @slim dragon, that comment doesn't involve your input, thanks.
slim dragon
Luckily this is a discussion channel and not private messages
golden coral
Should discourage being a cannibal by it not giving any sort of benefit, which means you can survive on it, but make yourself useless in the process. Also add things that makes it valuable to have others of your species alive and well in the game, instead of others not of your species (mixing...).
proud anchor
Holyskin only shows up when the topic changes to Deino.
proud swan
Your an idiot
sinful cove
Deino and rex shouldnt be punished for committing cannibalism on their species' children
proud anchor
Luckily this is a discussion channel and not private messages
Then I have the exclusive right to call you out for being incorrect.
sinful cove
Some other preds too
slim dragon
rex too ?
final relic
Your an idiot
Insult again and I’ll place you on mute. There’s no need for it.
slim dragon
I thought of rex as something very caring of their children
proud swan
I have a discord dedicated to raptor hunting packs. I’m a raptor main. And you like the sound of your own voice too much zeo.
slim dragon
Fair enough
proud swan
Insult again and I’ll place you on mute. There’s no need for it.
So mute me. Right is right. He’s an idiot. 🤷♂️
proud anchor
sinful cove
Obviously parents should be discouraged from eating their own offspring
slim dragon
Maybe you would get specific debuffs from eating your own children ?
Even if you're a cannibalistic species
golden coral
Should be enough with lack of the perks/things you might get for successfully raising your kids
proud anchor
Says the person who has offered no information in regards to constructive feedback outside of a personal conflagration regarding an otherwise objective stance having nothing to do with balance.
slim dragon
Or it would just be a stupid thing to do because you spent a lot of time building a nest, incubating the eggs and raising them long enough so that they have enough food value
golden coral
No elder for you, no permanent perks
Go ahead and ruin your own survival chances, if you want to :p
sinful cove
Until your kid has passed subadult and has dipped out you should be discouraged from cannibalizing
golden coral
And if they don't take their leave quick enough, well.. not your problem then :p
slim dragon
Raise kids as a source of food 
sinful cove
Maybe if your kid has been away long enough it loses the debuff protection lol
golden coral
Cannibalism shouldn't be "punished", just not giving any sort of benefits. You just survive, but vs someone who has eaten their proper food, you'll be much weaker.
proud anchor
Just pointing out...
High rates of alligator nest failure (Goodwin and Marion, 1978) and the assumption of high juvenile mortality are used to justify the removal of as much as 50% of the annual production from some lakes in Florida.
RIP the nests then. 
If you want to go with realism ❤️
You can't have your gator, and eat it, too.
slim dragon
did anyone talk about realism here ?
proud anchor
Now, if nests aren't important, that can be discussed when they release, but that will be something I am vehemently attacking if they don't have any sort of drawback.
proud anchor
did anyone talk about realism here ?
Could you stop with your daft one-liners, please? Adults are talking.
I have legitimately been sourcing real-life events in regards to the real-life arguments, so yes, someone has been talking about realism, thank you very much.
sinful cove
Are you Class' substitute or something?
proud anchor
Who is Class?
sinful cove
Exact same unpleasant attitude minus the comical suggestions that partly made up for it lmao
sinful cove
Yep at least class was amusing at times..
proud anchor
I'm just a bitter person. Lmao.
sinful cove
You are going too far into this lol
proud anchor
Sorry my suggestions don't tickle your fancy.
proud anchor
Yes, and if it's going to inspire the game, then there should be a strong debuff to the nests when they are implemented due to cannibalism.
It's really a simple backend solution.
golden coral
?
proud anchor
X species eats X juvi at X stage in development, then the nest suffers by being down X capacity.
sinful cove
Cannibalism already affects the juvenile population, egg eaters will affect nesters
slim dragon
What do you even mean by adding a strong debuffs to the nest ? Like, parents are forced to eat 50% of their offspring ?
sinful cove
It is a given already
slim dragon
For realism ?
golden coral
Why would you need any debuff?
If there's a good incentive to successfully raise your kids for perk/elder/whatever, wouldn't that be enough?
proud anchor
Nest eaters, yes...
The nest would take an added hit for cannibalism. It's simple enough.
golden coral
That + actual investement in the nesting process and all
proud anchor
If you're not going to effect the dino directly, then it's a super simple implementation that can reflect and deter cannibalism outside of dietary means.
Have you ever heard of something called Risk vs. Reward?
sinful cove
That's like saying “since the devs take real life inspiration from venom, survivors of venomous attacks should sometimes be permanently blinded and dinosaurs who have their legs broken should sometimes never fully heal”
It goes too far
proud anchor
Oh wow... Okay, apples to oranges. We're done here. Lol.
golden coral
What are you even on about Zeo?
slim dragon
I'm still struggling to understand what Zeo is suggesting
golden coral
Same Necro, not sure what the issue here is
slim dragon
We're probably both just idiots then
proud anchor
Cannibalism is a detriment. Should I spell it out?
The devs said HEAVY consiquences.
🤔
golden coral
And there are, without need for debuff
sinful cove
Cannibalism already happens it should just not be punished for certain predators, why add in a bunch of extra shit? Is it plain ol' pettiness?
golden coral
You'll be weaker and all if you don't eat your proper food
slim dragon
So you're suggesting debuffs for cannibalism ?
golden coral
I'd say that's a decent reason to try for the best food, and if cannibalism isn't your optimal food, then well, there you go
slim dragon
Including or excluding things like deino ?
proud anchor
No, I'm suggesting that since all the crocs want to eat crocs without detriment, that it'll effect their nest if they aren't punished in their dietary mechanics..
slim dragon
But they are people
Not actual crocs
sinful cove
No strings attached
golden coral
There's no need to add punishment for their nesting, again, they'll probably want to nest for other reasons anyway.
slim dragon
They're not gonna eat their own children
Or if they do it, okay that's on them for wasting time into nesting
sinful cove
Deinos will be a lot more spread out when more map and more dinos are released
Cannibalism will be less of sn issue than it is now
It should just be a thing that happens in some species and that's that
proud anchor
golden coral
Cannibalism should be neutral for most, except those meant to eat their own, in which case it could be considered good food just like some other targets.
slim dragon
I think cannibalism should be considered negative for most, except the cnnibalistic ones for which it should be neutral
golden coral
Neutral in this case meaning surviving but nothing more. Far from ideal that is, but not punished for eating it, unlike say, eating rotten food.
proud anchor
You eat a croc too many, you trade a place in your nest, as if it were your own.
Population control people.
slim dragon
I like the idea of cannibalism turning you into an albino
sinful cove
Yeah i hope theyre still considering that one
golden coral
I think cannibalism should be considered negative for most, except the cnnibalis...
Not quite sure. I think neutral should be the base, you shouldnt really pass up on food if you find a dead one of your own kind. It just shouldnt be a target. Unless you're meant to hunt your own. Punishment can be for rotten food/other real bad stuff.
sinful cove
Albino or piebald cannibals
slim dragon
Debuff from cannibalizing shouldn't be instant tho
Like if you're starving and eat a body of your own kind that's okay
proud anchor
Cannibalization should be repeat offenders.
slim dragon
But if you dot it too many times you progressively turn white
sinful cove
Makes camo harder, warns people that you're a dick, and looks creepy/cool
slim dragon
And yes, I know people would just cannibalize to have a cool white skin
sinful cove
The skin could fade in through patches maybe
slim dragon
But yes as you said Miragaia, it's a big enough debuff in itself
golden coral
It's.. not really :p
sinful cove
Yeah they'd be playing on hard mode to do it lol
golden coral
You'd be surprised how well it works to hide even as albino/similar. People are.. well, not always aware I suppose ^^
slim dragon
In legacy it's not that much of a debuff because it doesn't warn everyone else that you're a dick
proud anchor
slim dragon
Also the lightning and shaders between both games is very different, we don't know how being white will affect camouflage yet
sinful cove
I mean rn in legacy people make albinos and bananasaurs but yeah its a thing in skin custom
golden coral
Bananasaurs.. xD
And true enough Necro, maybe it'll be harder to camo in Evrima and stay hidden
proud anchor
I do wonder if Deino will be in that selection.
sinful cove
You see an albino in legacy and think “wow what a dummy” not “hey should we lynch or avoid that guy?”
slim dragon
Or "oh what a cool-looking dude, I wanna RP with them as a tsundere dino"
sinful cove
Lmao
slim dragon
Maybe I shouldn't have said that...
proud anchor
Sorry, my suggestion for balance was too much. Guess we're talking about skins now Later, then.
sinful cove
Your suggestion was kinda lame it was discussed lol
proud anchor
You do realize it would promote having more crocs around, right? Working together, and being more dangerous and larger, correct?
sinful cove
Cannibalism wont be as huge of a deal aside from people who hang at hotspots to start shit in the future
Deinos won't be 50% of the population packed into a quarter of the map like they are now
If people make cannibalism a big part of their diet as deino in the future they will have to inconvenience themselves to do it
proud anchor
My apologies, for my lame suggestion that causes people to enjoy not being one-bit by their own kind constantly, though. Risk Reward. Once more marine life is in the works, they'll have more to worry about, hopefully.
Oh well. C'est la vie.
Give em a win, and you gain nothing in return.
Just trying to make life easier for those looking to enjoy the game a bit from under water with less of a skill ceiling. (Not that it's hard, but hey, I've got no issues with the crocs killing eachother, I prefer terrestrial myself.)
sinful cove
Just make juvies more mobile so they arent floating snacks, no need for annoyingly overdone nesting debuffs or what ever the idea was
slim dragon
ˆ
proud anchor
Annoying? Lmao.
slim dragon
Or give them hiding spots
proud anchor
That's called life..
slim dragon
And what we're talking about is called a game
proud anchor
I'm not talking to you, Bub.
slim dragon
But I'm talking to you
sinful cove
Was going to say the same thing honestly
Should there be a 0.5% chance you randomly choke on a bone and die when eating too? It happens sometimes ya know
proud anchor
Faster gators is boring. Leave them as they are, slow and stupid.
We suggesting making baby raptors faster, too?
It's really a weak argument.
sinful cove
Baby raptors are already fast enough to escape
slim dragon
And they have places to hide
proud anchor
Stamina-wise, not exactly.
slim dragon
Deinos have none of those
alpine plover
It's not a weak argument
If it's for balance, then it's always justified despite realism
proud anchor
Are we talking about the skill check that is stamina again?
sinful cove
Small gators are pretty fast, it would help solve the cannibalism issue in a logical way without adding some boring fancy schmancy nest debuff
proud anchor
Just because you can't understand the benefits of population regulation and it's benifits to the species who are smarter and overcome the barrier, doesn't mean your opinion is any less lame.
slim dragon
Having baby deinos be fast on land then shift their land adaptations for more aquatic ones as they grow could make something interesting
sinful cove
Your little idea is just looking too far into things where there are easier and better solutions
proud anchor
Horror survival. No skill checks, just add speed as a win.
This is why Legacy failed. I hope the devs reflect on that kind of decision.
alpine plover
That's not the issue
Population regulation on whom exactly? hm
The players ofc
And it takes 0 skill to kill a slow helpless juvie who can't even exist in it's environment without hiding in a bush
It's a matter of luck, not overcoming the odds and surviving through intelligent gameplay
golden coral
What does the nesting have anything to do with it?
alpine plover
I'm confused as well
golden coral
That has nothing to do what so ever with someone spawning in and being unable to escape bigger and stronger versions of their own kind
Which is an issue in legacy, and something we should aim to avoid in Evrima, where it should be viable to play while growing up, so you can have fun and all.
sinful cove
Yeap, an unnecessary and overdone mechanic that would affect only a few deino players
alpine plover
Sub rex was an answer to the issue of adult rexes preying there own kind helplessly
An idea that should be followed as an example moving forward
golden coral
Now I don't know how bad deino juvie is, but making it faster and requiring less stamina on land vs an adult seems like a reasonable way to give them an out that is still risky in it's own ways. You see the splashes, and think it's a big guy, up and away into the undergrowth you go, and then try and get back before you dehydrate.
proud anchor
Legacy Legacy Legacy...
Change nesting to something less lame, if it's an issue.
alpine plover
Now I don't know how bad deino juvie is, but making it faster and requiring less...
I agree, the issue would naturally solve itself while complimenting smart gameplay
golden coral
Easy enough to make deino juvies have a slightly easier time, making it harder the bigger they get, but in return they can fight a bit more, and might encourage not fully grown ones to team up vs the really big ones if they need
sinful cove
Cannibal deinos could just choose not to nest, most of the players who would be going out of their way to KOS juvies once the population is spread out probably don't even want to nest
slim dragon
I'm honestly curious as to how players will behave when nesting is in
Will they be dicks with they children like they are currently with their pack members ?
golden coral
Like Necro said, a shift in behaviour and all during growth, not just statwise but behaviour wise perhaps
golden coral
I'm honestly curious as to how players will behave when nesting is in
Will they ...
Depends on the time and effort for nesting + what you'll get for doing it I think
Anyway, it's not the nested kids that have issues
sinful cove
Nesting buffs and debuffs should only be tied to any related perks, your own health and how you treat your own offspring
golden coral
It's the ones that spawns in on their own that might need something to help them out if they have issues surviving at all
Why should there even be buffs/debuffs for nesting? :p
sinful cove
Not if you cannibalized some unrelated babies as a species that is indiscriminate on food
If there are nesting buffs/debuffs it should only be related to your personal health and your offspring health i mean
alpine plover
Easily solvable if it's just zero cost to cannibalize.
If you eat your own young, you just waste a sink of time. Where as if you grow your offspring, you have added affinity, perks, or increases to Elder growth.
sinful cove
Not even sure if genes and stuff are still planned or if shit like poor incubation rates was ever planned
Successfully raising offspring to subadult should give some perks and/or count for elder growth yeah
alpine plover
Nesting offspring should give rewards, as well as being born into a nest as well. It'd give you a headstart in life. With more affinity or additional inherited perks. As well as parents or a group. It'd solve the whole "empty" feel of the game that people often have gripes with.
grave veldt
Legacy Legacy Legacy...
Change nesting to something less lame, if it's an issue.
Just wanna say in ur suggestion that Utah is going to have pounce at all stages hopefully
It just doesn’t rn because of bugs so their working around that
Also your able to pounce on a deino already that’s already in
ripe zinc
@ivory ocean can't expect us to drink from deep water when half the server is crocs
vapid fable
@silver barn that's pointless, if youre into rp wait for modding, the base game does not cater to role players
ripe zinc
There shouldn't be any pack limits imo. The amount of food available should be the deterrent for over sized groups, not some arbitrary hard cap
silver barn
There shouldn't be any pack limits imo. The amount of food available should be t...
Realyy do you want 10 carons killing evrything in the map
ripe zinc
Realyy do you want 10 carons killing evrything in the map
I think there should be less food, making a group of 10 carnos less viable
novel tulip
People will group up past the hard cap anyway, just use local chat or a discord vc
ripe zinc
People will group up past the hard cap anyway, just use local chat or a discord ...
exactly, giving those of us in vc an even bigger advantage
novel tulip
The only sure way to keep megapacks at bay is admins enforcing rules
Because if you dont split up your dinos become free food
Its a mess rn because theres not a way to contact admins hard built into the game yet but hopefully that will come soon
old hull
@silver barn get your ERP garbage out of the suggestions pls , you can keep that shit in nycta
ripe zinc
They liked their own suggestion
I guess someone has to do it 
sinful cove
When realism roleplay players try to make their rules hard mechanics
sinful cove
as satisfying as it would be to ruin the day of a dumb rex main by oneshotting it to the face, the devs don't want oneshots
a thag to the face should be utterly crippling though
final edge
maybe a 1 shot is a bit over the top but i do agree it should absolutly be then end of the fight
sinful cove
stego is probably going to be slower than rex so a thag to the head should at least make it wounded enough to make backing out of the encounter ideal to the rex
sinful cove
the slower animal in the matchup should deal the most punishing blows
final edge
i just noticed the #bufftrike in ur name lol
sinful cove
yeah legacy trike is poopoo
final edge
^^ 100%
sinful cove
hoping evrima trike kicks ass
final edge
same
like
those horns should do wayyyyyyu more damage
i rly hope anky stands a chance too
sinful cove
no more whiny carni players dogging the devs into turning the brawler herbis into fodder because they're too good at defending themselves against predators that are faster and mor epopulous than them
anky should be able to break jaws which would put many preds out of the fight
final edge
every rex main
sinful cove
hopefully there is more than leg fracturing
final edge
i never thought of that
sinful cove
like tail fracture, rib fracture, jaw fracture, and front+back limb fracture
final edge
maybe that could tie into the whole organ thing too
like yk how when u get hit in the chest rly hard and u get winded
u cant breath
sinful cove
pachy breaking ribs on dumb utahs and dilos 
yeah it would blow their stamina bar down
final edge
pachys one of my mains in legacy
sinful cove
and put a cap on wherever it dropped it until it healed
final edge
i can kill a rex with pachy but not a utah? ????
sinful cove
utah has double the health pool as his weight so if pachy doesnt get some good treatment with hp or bleed resist imma be pissed
final edge
nahh legacy pachy can face tank utah easily, its just all a utah has to do is press z and stay behind it
sinful cove
utah can hit and run easily since pachy is slow and bleeds like a baby in a blender
final edge
even on alt turn servers, utah needs 2 bites to bleed out a pachy, but pachy kills utah in 3 hits
sinful cove
and even if utah players don't know what theyre doing most of them hit and run because they're too cowardly to stick around and would rather run in circles and bark at people after biting them
final edge
fr
final edge
pachys jsut
sinful cove
slower than utah and is basically a 2shot
final edge
yup
i havnt had an intelligent conversation about isle herbies in a long time
thankyou
sinful cove
yeah unfortunately it usually devolves into salt
final edge
rex mains
sinful cove
usually when i walk into herbi convos in the feedback channels its utah and rex mains claiming anyone who prefers playing herbi or even people who mostly play carni but want herbis to be treated better than they currently are has a throbbing bias despite the fact that they are the only ones showing it lol
final edge
bro i do have a throbbing bias towards herbies because they should fucking annihalate carnis
sinful cove
the same people who think trike and stego should be 50/50 with rex in a fight despite being slower while the rex controls the confrontation
final edge
fr
grave veldt
the same people who think trike and stego should be 50/50 with rex in a fight de...
This
sinful cove
brawler herbis should be stronger than their carni counterparts, they are slow as fuck
grave veldt
I get tumors tryna explain that
sinful cove
idk why its so hard for people to understand
grave veldt
Frfr
sinful cove
the ability to engage and retreat at your leisure is already a huge advantage so the slower animal (the herbi) should hold the melee advantage
final edge
but it should be more than "im gonna run through you, bite twice each time and win no matter what you do"
sinful cove
shouldnt be legacy trike again where a giga trades hits and then just walks around and the trike dies and the giga has 2/3 of its health pool at the end
final edge
giga does more bleed, heals bleed better, and has better res
sinful cove
giga demolishes trike and cama effortlessly 1v1 in legacy and there are people who think that's okie dokie
sinful cove
giga is way funner than rex cant really judge
final edge
i still think trike and stego should absolutly roll over giga
grave veldt
Bro get this u can bleed out a trike in like 3 bites I’m pretty sure
final edge
4 giga bites
sinful cove
once its adult it is fun to just destroy almost every mid tier and all apexes but rex who you can still beat if you play better than the rex
giga is so busted in legacy
grave veldt
4 bites walk around and it dies
final edge
fr
grave veldt
Like honestly
sinful cove
and there are people who think its matchups with herbis are balanced
grave veldt
The only semi balanced herbi was shan’t cuz it had the potential to one shot u
final edge
before i knew trotting gave more bleed than z walking, i always used to trot around trikes and still bleed them out
sinful cove
ive killed 2 shants who were grouped together as a giga it was stupid
grave veldt
The isle
final edge
shant is the only good herbie at fighting apexs
grave veldt
^
sinful cove
camas die a slow agonizing death and can't do anything about it unless they have a big herd to protect them
grave veldt
Bro anky
sinful cove
poor anky
final edge
i feel bad for anky
sinful cove
hopefully anky's evrima gameplay is better than his new model
final edge
ankys not still a bad animal here right?
final edge
bro 4 xs already
sinful cove
poor bastard looks like a mammal now
likely due to the 1 shot, the devs really dont like 1 shots on big boys
hollow canyon
Most Trike players in the legacy were really bad. Idk I've won most of my matches against Giga as a Trike. I'd still say it's Giga favoured match up.
final edge
idk id the xs r for the whole crit thing or making herbies playable
sinful cove
a thag or mace to the face should just deal crippling levels of damage rather than 1 shot
grave veldt
If ur a good giga u can literally kill as many herbis as u wish
sinful cove
if the giga sticks around it can die
hollow canyon
I kind of disagree - 2 Trikes should absolutely roll over a Giga if they know what they're doing
sinful cove
but trike cant really do anything if the giga just trades for the bleed and walks away
final edge
i mained both trike and giga in legacy and tbh theres a way for trike to demolish giga everytime
hollow canyon
That's not what typically happened though I've 1v2ed Trikes on multiple occasions simply due to how bad they were.
sinful cove
maybe all the trikes ive killed were also doodoo players but i havent gotten killed by any of them as giga
hollow canyon
I've died to Trikes only when I was 1v7em them
sinful cove
i kille dmy shite friend's giga as a trike because he stuck around
hollow canyon
No rules servers ftw
grave veldt
it still sucks how both giga and rex could literally not give a shit about trikes attacks
the only thing that hurt badly was the stomp
sinful cove
trike used to be good but people complained and it got fodderized, which hopefully doesn't translate over to the evrima version at all
hollow canyon
When was Trike good exactly? I remember it being by far the most powerful animal in ~Dec 2018
but that was because Giga hasn't yet had its redo and Rex lost its 10% max hp factor on the bite.
sinful cove
dont really remember the year but i guess trike was hunting down rex players and killing them or something... apparently
sinful cove
so instead of remedying the issue if it was even there (i never ran into it) they just turned trike into a toothpick potato
hollow canyon
After it got its biteforce buffed up to 1200N it started dumpstering Trike again
grave veldt
Who actually looked at rexes face tanking trikes and said it’s ok lol
sinful cove
i had also heard about the mixed herbi death herds running around killing carnis a lot but i never saw it once on officials or outside of them
grave veldt
Legacy in general was just fucked
final edge
yeah
hollow canyon
@sinful coveI've seen it, it was very much doable and it worked way too well
sinful cove
was it really common? i never ran into it
hell i ran into allos mixing with utahs a lot and never got harassed by one mix herd
hollow canyon
You'd send Maias to scout for the apexes then Dibbles to apply bleed to them and slow them down and Trikes followed the apexes to kill them.
I have no idea how common that was but it still shouldn't have been a thing in a single instance.
sinful cove
maybe i was just lucky and never ran into it
sinful cove
i played cera a lot on officials so i woulda been an easy target lol
hollow canyon
Herbivores should be viable on their own instead of being forced to mixherd
grave veldt
Cera on officials was just
sinful cove
it's pain i know but i like cera and carno
final edge
trike should be made to play solo
grave veldt
Pls do my boi cera better in evrima
sinful cove
nothing should be balanced around being in a group
final edge
everyone just cares ab the 1v1
sinful cove
for survivability at least
it shouldn't need to be in a group to defend itself reliably
which is why slow ass herbis like stego, trike and anky should fuck people up with headshots. oneshots are likely staying out of the question but if some dumbass walks up entirely on his own decision and gets hit in the face by the bad end he should be out of the fight
final edge
exactly
frosty heron
idk id the xs r for the whole crit thing or making herbies playable
Herbie mains never change
Theres a good reason for the Xs, its called "balance"
final edge
and u think that a rex vs stego/trike/anky is balanced?
frosty heron
and u think that a rex vs stego/trike/anky is balanced?
If youre talking about legacy, I would stop typing right now, because whole legacy its broken
final edge
oh i am
frosty heron
and theres no point of discuss about Legacy at this point
final edge
but im suggesting a way to make it balanced for evrima
frosty heron
Evrima already has locational damage multipliers
final edge
whats wrong with going more indepth?
frosty heron
A rex who recieves a headshot from a Stego it aint gonna leave with small scratches
final edge
i never said this had to be integrated right away
ur saying a stego tail leaves small scratches on a rex?
frosty heron
Youre asking for a 1 shot which honestly its pretty stupid
final edge
read the edit
final edge
yeah
but the stegos gonna put some big scratches i think
maybe even just a flesh wound
yk wut
i just reread ur thing for the 10th time
im fucking stupid
anyways
frosty heron
Critical attacks based on % are also stupid to suggest beacause thats a thing happening random in a fight and removes all the skill based stuff on combat
final edge
thats y i also suggested the hitboxes
frosty heron
Id say no to that aswell
final edge
ddid u read the full thing?
frosty heron
I did
final edge
ik it was alot
frosty heron
Anyways , im not sure if you even tested Herbs on evrima
final edge
oh i played stego quite a bit
frosty heron
Maybe not enought, it is a strong playable as it should
final edge
but i havnt tested out evrima herbies on apex carnies yet
im just putting an idea out there for a new mechanic and a way to balance the game
i mean they changed the whole roadmap to have more mechanics
frosty heron
Thats fine but your text its aiming to something to just destroy another Apex so easily just because your dino has a Thagomizer
frosty heron
Stego will do damage to a Rex I can guarantee you that
final edge
but not rly
frosty heron
Right now its bullying Deinos on hand to hand combat, a 8 ton croc
final edge
im saying that if im a rex and i attack a stego, im not just gonna go, oh my dps is higher than urs let me facetank u and not give a fuck ab those meter long horns on ur tail
its gonna take strategy
imo if any apex carnivore just charges in instantly, theyre gonna get fucked up
wether thats against anky, trike, stego
final edge
well thats a good thing
frosty heron
Most hard stuff requieres cold mind on Evrima
Not stupid tailriding method legacy has
final edge
yeah but we never rly saw rexs riding things in legacy and i doubt we wouldnt in evrima anyways
also im not a herbie main
frosty heron
Alright sorry for that then
final edge
all g lmfao
frosty heron
Im not neither but I kinda like both carnis and herbs on evrima
So I wish the best for both sides
Damn I like Dinosaurs like wtf
final edge
ig im kinda biased cuz the herbies have just been getting hit on for so long
frosty heron
Nah Theri was kinda OP , Legacy Stego for a pseudo apex, was OP
frosty heron
Well made herbies theres only a few, and most are mid tiers
granite gate
if herbis get substantially buffed, i think bodies should give way more food
frosty heron
Except Para
granite gate
para was just a fat meal ticket
final edge
i used to main para wayy back lmao
frosty heron
One of the worst herbies ill say
final edge
i can agree with that holy
frosty heron
But they will get love on Evrima hopefully, I just dont like some suggestions going wild with Rexes, I know everyone hates Rexes because legacy
I get there
frosty heron
Well then, it should be as strong as the animal is considering it gonna be a pain in the ass to grow
granite gate
that is fair, i think the dev team is trying to make apexes more niche tho which is nice
i.e, deino is not just a bulldozer
im hoping they'll make it so that rex is penalized for messing up ambushes, but not so much that they die for a failed one. just so then, if they fail, they dont just sprint in anyway
final edge
well ye it shouldnt be a 6 hour or whatever grow time for something that is incapable of filling its niche
legacy trike
granite gate
personally i dont think anything in the game should be 5-6+ hours to grow until being a juvie / sub is more fun and more survivable (through skill / care and not just being AFK)
final edge
turok do u at least agree that if a stego or whatever lands a headshot or "critical hit" it should at least mark the end of the fight
granite gate
as long as they balance it properly, it shouldnt be a problem to lower apex growth times slightly
final edge
i think carnis should have longer grow times tan herbies in general
alpine plover
i hate rex but i dont think it should be nerfed into the ground
thing is it did have a bone crushing bite but I hate how when it bites your tail it breaks
final edge
like say a tier 5 apex herbie takes 6 hours, i think a carni of the same tier should be anywhere from 8 to 10
alpine plover
Especially as a giga main I hate how Rex has that feature
final edge
ur # is facts
alpine plover
yes
final edge
if giga and rex switched sprint speeds, but not ambush speeds that would be balanced
alpine plover
yes
final edge
and then rex dmg goes down to 1000
alpine plover
Rex’s bones would shatter
final edge
bone break rework
alpine plover
If it ran at 33km
final edge
yee
final edge
the animation looks good yeah, but irl a rex would break its legs if it ran like that
alpine plover
maybe like 22
ye
I just want 2 things from the devs to do with giga
Buff it’s health
final edge
i think 22 would be too low for balance but maybe 28 would be lowest
sinful cove
Giga's current endurance hunting makes sense mechanic wise as it would he hunting sauropods, rex ambush makes sense mechanic wise as it is supposed to disable targets to make a kill, even if it isnt very irl logical
final edge
tbh ion think giga needs a health buff id be happy with just speed
alpine plover
Giga's current endurance hunting makes sense mechanic wise as it would he huntin...
a 8 ton animal couldn’t run at 43 kilometers a hour
final edge
it is a game
sinful cove
And out utahs are running around like kangaroos with hatchets
alpine plover
it could leap into its preys back
granite gate
like say a tier 5 apex herbie takes 6 hours, i think a carni of the same tier sh...
bit late here but i kinda agree with this. plus it's more realistic; herbis grow fast and die fast in nature usually
sinful cove
Utahraptor irl was a stocky snd slower animal
granite gate
only exceptions should be large behemoths like sauropods which, in adulthood, essentially become immortal
final edge
oh yeah
granite gate
kinda like elephants or giraffes
final edge
say, trike 6 hours, giga 9 hours, rex 10 hours, brachi 15 hours
sinful cove
So rex running fast in short bursts is no more of a stretch than a utah leaping and latching onto the side of a moving animal
granite gate
i'd say 12 for brachi just because more than half a day to grow just seems a bit insane lol
alpine plover
^
sinful cove
Brachi will likely be vulnerable enough in its late juvie and sub stage it wouldnt meed an insane growth
So 10-12 for brachi is fine
granite gate
hm tru
final edge
yeah that makes sense
alpine plover
I mean it’s fun to discuss this but I don’t think these animals are coming anytime soon lol
final edge
probably not lol