If deino gets fracture to punish smalls that get too close to it that problem would probably go away but thats a subject for the future when we see if he'll have it
#balance-feedback-discussion
sinful cove
slim dragon
But Deino>Utah, Carno, Teno, Hypsi, Dryo and juvie Stego
grave veldt
deino with better rivers n stuff would be nice
slim dragon
Seems balanced imo
sinful cove
Better rivers is probably the biggest issue
grave veldt
^^^^^^^^
slim dragon
Although a tug-of-war to punish cocky stegos wouldn't hurt
grave veldt
rivers need to be better asap
sinful cove
Is tug of war still planned?
sinful cove
Maybe itll surprise drop with vertical lunge
slim dragon
Honestly I don't know
I hope so
sinful cove
Two things that are/were planned that would be nice
slim dragon
I'm pretty sure vertical lunge will come in update 4, that's what the devs said, right ?
azure hinge
i still find it a bit too much that the other land animals run through full leg deep water so fast
spare badger
They said that the tug of war is gonna be really hard to.implement and won't be in for a while
Iean we don't need it untill another stego sized Dino comes
slim dragon
Better late than never
vernal sentinel
Omfg is that person serious
slim dragon
2nd time he asks for Deino 1000N biteforce
vernal sentinel
slim dragon
He also asked for Utah pounce from birth several times
rich fractal
i think 1000N is better too, 5hrs sitting around to fight half your weight class is worse
grave veldt
slim dragon
Deino isn't supposed to hunt things that big
There's a reason it was implemented this early and rex wasn't
grave veldt
utah is only 15 more mins then ptera to grow and yet its so much more powerful why? becuz of its playstyle
not everything is designed to kill other things in their growth class
rich fractal
when i think of underpowered for its size crocodile isnt the first thing to come to mind
grave veldt
it rly isnt underpowered
slim dragon
It's not underpowered
grave veldt
u can kill a stego in 4 hits to the head
slim dragon
It's just not meant to cut its prey in half in one bite, modern crocs neither
grave veldt
not to mention u can literally one shot the entire roster except an adult stego
rich fractal
we must be playing different games people were saying it cant even 1 shot utah
grave veldt
sure not with its bite
but it can literally lunge and drown the entire roster (minus stego)
and they cant even escape unless the deino somehow messes that up
rich fractal
does that work ive never seen anyone do that
grave veldt
ive seen many many deinos do it
i did it myself
many times
thats its main ability
to drown things
sinful cove
grave veldt
thats why deino is added in the game in the first place
slim dragon
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/401464048610312195/835736203315380228/h...
Awesome
Food chain explained
grave veldt
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/401464048610312195/835736203315380228/h...
"theres always a bigger fish"
sinful cove
Don’t remember who recorded that but its pretty hilarious
azure hinge
deino is 100% underpowered maybe not in terms of bite force and fighting babies but it definitely isnt strong
sinful cove
It is supposed to be an ambush predator jot a brawler
azure hinge
seeing as every deino in the official server is hiding underwater
to not get attacked by pteras
vernal sentinel
What is it supposed to do?
sinful cove
It plays the ambush predator role very well it just needs better rivers
azure hinge
and then not able to go on land at all to bask cause utahs
slim dragon
Also Utah are meant to take on things bigger than themselves
sinful cove
If anything a tail wap and fracture could help it deter utahs
slim dragon
If deinos didn't have broken hitboxes it wouldn't be easy prey for them
sinful cove
Its hit box isnt working as intended
azure hinge
not everyone is sayin 1k N bite force
sinful cove
Its not a buff its a fix
slim dragon
^
rich fractal
why do people always use ambush predator as a reason for low damage, thats like saying sniper class in fps games should have lower damage
azure hinge
utahs are an ambush predator too
slim dragon
no
slim dragon
Utahs are pack hunters
rich fractal
utahs are a fast herd animal
slim dragon
They're meant to harass and wear down their prey
sinful cove
Deino is low damage to keep him in the water and not brawl on land, his special ability is a replacement for high damage ambushing and it works well
vernal sentinel
Utah is fast and agile, those are not features of an ambush predator
sinful cove
Unlike rex, current ambushing apex in legacy, deino isnt supposed to kill with raw damage
vernal sentinel
Legacy 
azure hinge
utahs are pack ambush predators
sinful cove
Just a comparison between two different ambushers lol
slim dragon
Then all predators are ambushers
sinful cove
Ik legacy is ew
slim dragon
Rex is more of an ambush hunter than utah
azure hinge
LOL
slim dragon
Because it can kill its prey instantly, unlike Utah, and it can't chase them
While Utah can
As I said, Utah is a harassing hunter
sinful cove
Considering how often utahs just run of to people and pounce mid combat they dont function as ambush hunters
rich fractal
ambush means like a fat python that sits there and 1 taps things. would be a pure form of ambush predator
sinful cove
They can ambush but from what i see they just barge in with no stealth and no planning
azure hinge
no ambush predators means they wait for their prey and attack with them not knowing as their form of hunting
and plus we are humans playing as animals
so every single person is going to play to abuse the strengths
hence utahs mobility
honestly i just play herbies im just going to go back to killing deinos at the edge of the water with my tail swipe again
slim dragon
So you're that kind of player ? No wonder you want an increase to deino biteforce...
golden coral
@azure hinge You could argue that all predators should ambush, you're not wrong there. But what people mean with deino is that you're supposed to use the grab and drown to kill. If something is not capable of being grabbed, it's outside your prey range, barring specific circumstances. Deino is fine, if it gets its hitboxes fixed and all that.
azure hinge
i have not once said increase deinos bite force? ive been against that this entire time
yeah but your advocating for late game deino, i said before, late game deino is fine
the mid and early tier is where the problem is
slim dragon
Maybe you weren't aware of that, but your whole argument really sounded like you were supporting a deino biteforce buff
azure hinge
no not once ive been saying nerf movement speed in water this entire time
modest carbon
carno is utah repellent now
azure hinge
carno is a lot of things repellent now
spare badger
Not tenos they reduced kick Stam loss so they have an easier time
As far as I'm aware lol
golden coral
@short scroll I believe you can tap space to keep from falling in. It takes a bit of practice, but you can time it so you don't fall in, while remaining low enough to continue skimming.
short scroll
Nope, both my significant other and I have nearly grown to adults. And haven't caught a fish once. We have survived off one large fish that legit swam up onto land.
We keep ending up getting sucked into the drink regardless.
We can only skim for less than a second before we have to stop, pull up or drown.
Since you can't hit space while holding for skimming
clever dirge
@short scroll you can press space while holding rmb. If you have half your stamina left you can skim about 5min. Just don't do sharp turns while close to the water and constantly tap space
short scroll
We've tried this. For a full hour.
It actually vaccums you down regardless at one point.
Not sure if this is a bug due to public branch or what.
golden coral
Even if you still have stamina?
short scroll
Yes
I just think it should be a little more intuitive rather than delicate glitchy mess.
golden coral
Hm. Alright, sounds a little bit odd, because I've seen plenty of people do just what I and Neph said, tap space to keep yourself level while skimming. But maybe something did happen when we went from QA branch to live.
short scroll
I'm thinking maybe so
golden coral
It usually does seem to go from functioning properly to all sorts of issues when it leaves QA so
I'd not discount it at least, but if you could get a vid of either of you trying, that might be good for any potential report
short scroll
Aye, so it's good for folks to know about. But it would be nicer to have it be more intuitive regardless.
Since deino feels great to play still, it's a shame that ptera can be such a headache.
golden coral
Well I can't help out much on how to be a ptera, I've failed every attempt at fishing so far, so I've given up on that particular playable :p
short scroll
Exactly, it shouldn't be this much of a nightmare.
golden coral
Since I got a bit yet before needing to go, I'll see if I can get on and just try it out myself
short scroll
At least give it a way to level out so it doesn't go into the drink while skimming
Just naturally instead of having to constantly slam space bar.
golden coral
If it works by tapping space, I can see that being good enough, it would make for a bit of practice to be good at skimming then, but that at least should work
Let me try it out and I'll see what I can make of it
slim dragon
I tried skimming after the release of update 3, didn't have any problem
short scroll
Yeah, after many more attempts space bar doesn't do anything while skimming
golden coral
@short scroll I'm growing right now, give me another 5-10 min and I'll have enough stamina to try it out I think.
short scroll
Alright
Searching through the chats, it might have gotten a little borked in transfer.
golden coral
@short scroll So. I can confirm tapping space works for me, I successfully skimmed back and forth along the northeast river, from the end waterfall to the first one. Keeping my beak in the water, more or less close, while not falling in, and holding RMB the whole time, so the mouth was open for catching fish.
inland lagoon
Does anybody know what was changed in balance? Carno nerfed, dryo buffed, teno less then 2 hours?
short scroll
Yeah, with us it does absolutely nothing
We're out in the northern rivers near the coast
golden coral
@inland lagoon Carno stamina is nerfed, dryo speed is buffed, growth times lowered for some playables.
Maybe it's an issue with your controls or something. I don't know right now, but it does work for me.
I could try and get on your server if you tell me where you're at
See if we can meet up and see if I can observe/show in game
short scroll
We're honestly done at this point with ptera, we've nearly starved to death trying to fight this buggy mess.
golden coral
Alright. Maybe you'll get it to work later on, could just be something off that we don't know about
short scroll
Possibly, but there is a few reports within a day or two of it being borked.
undone bough
@short scroll can you use Z to slow down?
cause if not you might have to reset controls inregards to your spacebar issue
short scroll
I can use Z to slow down and land just fine
It's the water vaccuming us into the water when we get close to the water
golden coral
Very odd. Well, I can't do much more, unless I can see it in action, since it works just fine for me. Maybe it's something with the river, maybe it's cause you're more grown than I was. I have no idea honestly.
short scroll
It happened regardless of how big were as well
It was at the northern log at the coastal river
golden coral
@short scroll Get a vid of it if you can, and send in a bug report then. I have no idea what's wrong and without seeing, there's not much else I can offer as advice on what could possibly be wrong.
short scroll
Alright, I'll try again later tomorrow if I can
clever dirge
@short scroll I tryed skimming where you said you are having problems. https://youtu.be/OAO9Wk7KRoo I made a video there to verfiy. I have no problems skimming there, maybe it helps you
short scroll
Strange, you seem to be keeping even, but we kept getting pulled down regardless of what we did.
But even with a full stamina bar, it kept pulling us down even if we slammed on the spacebar or tapped it.
Again, we'll try to get footage tomorrow
Nothing really helped
Again, this is also mentioning that this isn't as smooth as it should be. It could be a lot more intuitive to skim in the first place.
I also saw someone at about 30 seconds that I'm pretty sure I saw get yanked in suddenly
It wasn't a smooth decline, like they got pulled down
If we kept really really high we could somewhat maintain altitude, as in not even touching the water, but the moment we skimmed with our beaks we'd get pulled down
It would be really nice if it kept you above the water automatically while skimming to keep things smoother.
golden coral
I tried at the same place, worked fine for me too. I really think we need to see what happens to you guys to make some sense of this. And sure, the mechanic can most likely be polished, and probably will be. They did say they're missing some things for both deino and ptera in the devblog I think.
I still would have to say having it automatic is a little so so, I think it's good that there's some skill and practice to learning how to skim properly, as long as it actually works for everyone.
short scroll
There should absolutely be some skill, such as not having the guidance once you let go and have the fish.
If you careen into the water after you get the fish, because you didn't fly up, that's fair
But keeping that even with the water with it being that risky getting that low in the first place due to drowning and deinos, it makes it to stressful as is currently
golden coral
Just wait until the deinos can lunge upwards.. :p
But I think that's part of it, pteras are also fast to grow
short scroll
That'll be great
golden coral
It's not really a big loss if you do die, it's sort of like dryo
short scroll
Fair enough, seeing as how we grew to adult with one lucky big meal
Or a Hypsi, who are feathered chaos
Those were fun to take for a test spin
golden coral
So I think it's fine, it's not that difficult to do what me and Neph do
You'll see when we got your issues figured out
Even I managed to actually skim pretty long :p
short scroll
I'll certainly scooch the topic to general feedback though. Not sure if this is balance or general
runic cliff
I also noticed stuff has changed on Ptera Erik. When flying high it seems like he doesnt loose that mutch air anymore, but when low to the ground or at water level there seems to be more of a pull. I kinda like it, makes it feel more realistic. Its the same system they used in War Thunder; if there isnt enough air between the wings and the ground it just falls to the ground! On the other hand I did notice that it doesnt always feel te same with Ptera. I used to fly really low between trees and grasslands and at one point I also got sucked into the ground; I think it might have something to do with the KI system. You can also see that it sometimes pulls the forward section of the head/wings a bit down - noticed it right from the start after flying so mutch in the beta.
golden coral
Huh. Interesting. I'll have to see if I keep being ptera if I notice anything like that.
gaunt jackal
@meager timber buhu denio is not water rex and needs skill and patience to use and will only be a sudo water apex buhu, ur feedback stinks of i think the isle is realistic (is not never will be there are hypos) and big scary animal needs to equal op and a murder machine
short scroll
Exactly waht Joep said, it's like when you get close to the water it has a pull that suctions you in, which makes it difficult to skim at times.
The pull works well when trying to land, but it's a pain when it malfunctions in the water.
It's good to know that we weren't the only ones struggling with this.
It's great for land travel, but it's causing issues when you're trying to skim the water.
golden coral
Strange then that it seems to only happen for some of us. You and Joep notices it, meanwhile me and Neph seemed to not be affected much.
short scroll
Very strange, though I do appreciate you guys helping to break down what's going on and how to maybe fix it.
runic cliff
The new update is a big strange, have to admit. I was on Eu2 yesterday night and it wasnt even full; but somehow when sniffing near the big river my frames dropped very heavy from 60 to 12 or less. It did build back up later like nothing had happened and the next hour or so I didn't have any drops at all.
Then theres the thing with Juvi Ptera losing stam while Gliding. I do like the idea that he can't keep his strength up when young but the devs didnt mention the change in the blog at all.
Then I started notice these very small changes in Ptera flight; not so mutch when skimming but more in general when flying high or low and how the head/shoulder section sometimes tries to move with the terrain.
short scroll
Okay, I've noticed that too! It's such a pain getting and staying in the air as a juvi.
runic cliff
It used to be worse in Beta im my opinion but I kinda hoped they would have added maybe 10 mins more to growth and him not being able to fly AT ALL. That would both be tense as a Ptera player and also be a bigger chance of other preds to get a snack 😉 Maybe they ad that to hatchling stage once nesting is in!
short scroll
It's really tense, having to really depend on the foliage and being quiet.
I can see it working well with a big flock, having to keep the grounded babies protected
Or making sure to nest very high
runic cliff
Yes or not high at all because you have to protect them from falling out and dying because they can't fly yet ^^
short scroll
Exactly
At the very least, the skimming also needs some adjustments to not make it a hair thin nightmare to fish
runic cliff
In my opinion there needs to be a chance of smaller animals like Utah, troodon or compy to get to a nest and eat it whole. They can jump for a reason 🙂
I had huge trouble with fishing at the start but you will get better over time - no worries!
short scroll
I'm already nervous enough about deinos, let's not add a vaccum to the water to make it worse
.........my significant other and I tried for a couple hours, and kept getting screwed by that vaccum.
It did not in fact get any better
runic cliff
Maybe you fear the crocs too mutch so you cant concentrate on the fishing? 🙂 Try to find a spot with fish away from the hotspots and try to skim a bit, until you have the feeling for it. Thats how I did it as well; I was always scared to go to the water for drinks but by diving from a higher position and not being predictable gets me out of harms way most of the time.
short scroll
We were on an empty server. And constantly got pulled into the drink.
We weren't even nervous, more that we were getting upset that we kept getting pulled down with no warning
runic cliff
I kinda wanna see; send you a friends request btw
short scroll
Accepted, and I'll try to show you later when I'm not so exhausted
I literally was trying the space bar thing at different speeds, my SO even heard me spamming it. Loudly. No difference.
It still pulled me down
I could only skim for a brief second before having to sharply pull up or get pulled down.
runic cliff
Does the spacebar work when trying to fly UP?
runic cliff
Ok, weird!!
short scroll
No problems getting into the air normally
Surface of the water tells me and him to screw off.
Again, some areas may have some buggy IK spots where it tries to pull you down when it shouldn't.
Which would explain why some people are dealing with it, but not others.
Which is why I suggested the level out while skimming to keep from worrying about going into the drink, once you've got the level. Still keeping the risk of it while diving in and going out.
Allowing you to focus more on the direction and speed, to hit your target with the ripples.
Less hand holding, more of a mild assist to make it more intuitive and fun to play as.
Though yes, I certainly appreciate your analysis of the situation and help. Tried swinging it in general feedback, but they were less receptive or logical about the issue.
winter tapir
@old hearth the map is only going to get bigger. Not being attacked every 15 min is preferred imo, makes it more realistic
short scroll
So basically my idea is this: Readjusting the IKs and weight on the pteradon to remedy the issue of pulling the dinosaur into the water like a vacuum, and adding in a light sort of assist while flying over the surface of the water. This would remedy the hairline procedure that is currently trying to skim for fish, without being as worried that one slight adjustment will send you careening into the water.
My reasoning as that as this is in fact a game, it shouldn't be a stressful game of operation every time you want to simply catch a fish.
Making the motion more fluid and natural would help ease some of the stress.
novel tulip
I literally was trying the space bar thing at different speeds, my SO even heard...
You have to hold the space bar
short scroll
Also tried that, no difference.
Went immediately into the drink on full stamina
Trust me when I say, we tried for hours.
novel tulip
Are you perfectly parallel to the water and going slow speed? Skimming has a learning curve but it takes a few attempts to get the hang of
short scroll
Yep, perfectly parallel
novel tulip
I had the same issue with getting sucked in but it was because I wasn't doing it right
novel tulip
Try getting a vid of it and sending to the bug reports then
short scroll
That's the plan for later when I'm not running on 0 sleep.
Again, I still appreciate you guys trying to help with the idea, and helping with the rubber ducky method. Though I've tried all the suggestions during our first attempt and it all failed unfortunately. I'll record it when I can.
timid kestrel
Honestly I'm gonna take it all these deino damage complaints are from people who don't know how to play it to get the most out of it?
My main issue is its hit registration. Other than that? I two shot utahs, I've won a 1v1 against a grown stego that was spamming tail swipe, and I've fought off a carno on land because he does jack shit now that deino has bleed resist
obtuse ocean
You need to 2 shot a utah as deino ?? that should be 1 shot, with overkill
lament cloak
You need to 2 shot a utah as deino ?? that should be 1 shot, with overkill
no not really
timid kestrel
You need to 2 shot a utah as deino ?? that should be 1 shot, with overkill
That's up for debate. Doesn't bother me since I drown them anyways
Plus alt click is so fast they don't survive anyways lol
obtuse ocean
I mean, if a rex need 2 hits to kill a utah when it comes out. Its gonna be sad lol
timid kestrel
Rex isn't deino though
obtuse ocean
Ofcouse not ,but its an apex ?
alpine plover
The two only have strong biteforces, and that is it
timid kestrel
And a sucho can be called an apex too. Doesn't mean it's a god lol
lament cloak
deino relies on its special ability to drown things. rex is supposed to do alot of damage, and it might have a special ability to do that but anyway
obtuse ocean
Yea, every small dino should get one shotted by an apex
lament cloak
deino also has other ways of escaping danger. its called hold shift in the water
alpine plover
rex has a ridiculously strong bite force, and also could slice through flesh (the teeth did have some serrations)
obtuse ocean
They just want the game to be a cuddling up game, where how many you are decide who wins
lament cloak
They just want the game to be a cuddling up game, where how many you are decide ...
tastes like 🧂
obtuse ocean
if a rex needs two bite to kill a utah, they can litterly just keep fighting/heal up go back in
alpine plover
but it is (a) not semiaquatic, and clearly that already makes it fairly different from Deinosuchus.
lament cloak
if a rex needs two bite to kill a utah, they can litterly just keep fighting/hea...
rex isnt going to need two bites to kill a utah
alpine plover
Also, being harsh here, Rex could probably pick up utah and throw it, or just instantaneously kill it by crushing it
frosty heron
Lol imagine Rex taking 2 hits to kill an Utah on the body, I'll become an Herbie main 
obtuse ocean
lol same
frosty heron
That won't happen tho
alpine plover
Also, being harsh here, Rex could probably pick up utah and throw it, or just in...
This is why you stay the fuck away from rexes, common sense
lament cloak
well to the tip of the tail it would probably be multiple bites. but to the body rex will oneshot utah
timid kestrel
if a rex needs two bite to kill a utah, they can litterly just keep fighting/hea...
You're complaining about an entirely different dino that isn't even here yet. The discussion was on deino
obtuse ocean
Piggy shoosh, have you played legacy ? lol
alpine plover
well to the tip of the tail it would probably be multiple bites. but to the body...
Oh the wonders of regional damage...
frosty heron
Legacy shouldn't be a thing to compare here as Evrima has locational damage
obtuse ocean
Yea, but im talking about a rex biting a utah. They gonna get one shotted for sure, with overkill lol
lament cloak
Piggy shoosh, have you played legacy ? lol
yes, and I have played utah. and I didnt get oneshot to the tip of the tail. I get oneshot when the rex bites the air a few feet away from me
alpine plover
If you bite the tail of a utah as a rex, it may either get stabbed, sliced off or at the very least grazed by the tooth serrations and the strength of the bite
timid kestrel
Yea, but im talking about a rex biting a utah. They gonna get one shotted for su...
This is for balance though. Balance of dinos already in the game.
hollow canyon
Deino's quite clearly not an apex.
lament cloak
by definition deino is definitly an apex but im not about to have that discussion right now
short scroll
It is certainly an apex, but odds are most dinosaurs will have adjustments made as more species are added. Right now, we have one big apex carnivore, and it's balance is centered on what's available at this moment I believe.
hollow canyon
By the definition of an apex in terms of ecology - yes it is an apex right now as no other animal hunts it for food really. However by the community definition of an apex as a class it's clearly not one.
There's a plethora of evidence from the devs that hammers the point that Deinosuchus is not an apex in the roster.
short scroll
If it's made to take down other apexes, it would be nuts to have its's power already at maximum if there is nothing to counter it in game theory. So odds are fairly likely that it'll be adjusted later. Otherwise, it'll be adjusted as they go to be in it's part of the food chain.
hollow canyon
It's not made to take down other apexes though, the devs have said enough things about it for us to know that it's not considered as an animal that is in the same class as Tyrannosaurus, Giganotosaurus and Spinosaurus.
short scroll
Aye, though it may have an advantage against medium carnivores, they may fuss with size and power later, who knows but the devs.
So for now we'll have to figure out what's balanced in the current meta with what we've got.
hollow canyon
Who knows they might change their minds about it later on, back in the day it was meant to take on hypers but as it is, it's not considered an apex carnivore based on what the devs have said.
short scroll
Exactly, things may always change, but we'll roll with what we've got for now.
hollow canyon
So the whole point of "apexes oneshot a Utah therefore so should Deino because it's an apex" is a moot point really.
short scroll
It's currently the only 'apex', because it's the biggest carnivore that we have available right now.
hollow canyon
Again - it depends on what definition of "apex" you're using. It's an apex from the ecological point of view but it's not an apex class animal in terms of its spot on the roster.
short scroll
Of course it'll probably be dethroned later, but for now it's the biggest we've got, and the only big water predator. With pteras being almost like water/sky raptors I suppose?
hollow canyon
Just like Carno was an apex in update 2.
short scroll
Precisely
hollow canyon
But this isn't the typical use of the word "apex" in the context of The Isle. I'd even argue that in the context of the game you can't really use this word because there are instances where even the biggest predators are being hunted for food which technically makes them "not apex" animals.
Even though in reality that just wouldn't happen.
short scroll
But anywhosit, back on topic about how it's an 'apex' and the balance between it, instead of dwelling on terminology. We'll assume for now that it means 'biggest carnivorous creature so far'.
gaunt jackal
denio will never be an apex its a sudo apex ambush predetor, not suposed to deal high dmg but more drown its prey but it seems a lot of ppl think denio is like in the hope trailer where denio and rex 3 call each other
hollow canyon
^ Most likely that
short scroll
It's an apex of it's own environment (underwater only, so between deino, baryonyx, etc), but not strong enough to topple land apex species. So we'll roll with that logic.
We'll just throw them into their own specialist bracket.
gaunt jackal
It's an apex of it's own environment (underwater only, so between deino, baryony...
spino?
hollow canyon
Spino
short scroll
Until spino, yes
Again, we'll assume apex means biggest predator that we have at the time.
Because, let's be honest, this is gonna take a while.
Again, back on topic of balance of the current state of things instead of dwelling on future updates. Because things will inevitably change and shift.
hollow canyon
That's not what the word means though. It's just confusing to use that word when it already has a different meaning both in terms of the game terminology and ecology.
gaunt jackal
apex=the top of the foodchain
short scroll
Again, this is less ecology and terminology, and more a balance discussion.
Let's keep this on task, we just went over this.
timid kestrel
Balance discussion, where we argue semantics like this is fucking #paleotalk instead of talking balance
obtuse ocean
yea, i think we all can agree that its gonna be tons of nerfs/buffs when they add more dinos.
short scroll
Exactly
So any concerns about the balance of our current state of affairs, with the dinos we have in now.
Let us go for that.
timid kestrel
Yes, thank you
So back to what I originally said that revived this fucking train wreck
timid kestrel
Honestly I'm gonna take it all these deino damage complaints are from people who...
.
short scroll
The floor is yours, friend.
That's kind of true, the only one I've seen give deino a run for it's money is a herd of bold stegos. If you get the drop on them, you can even send carnos running for the hills.
Ambush is a great tool with the murky waters.
timid kestrel
The only thing I've heard (and support) that will actually add another level of gameplay and balance is the suggestion to make water change your weight, like in reality
short scroll
They don't know how many deino are in the water at the time, where you are, or if you are there.
There is nothing more terrifying than trying to go after baby gators, not knowing if there is a full sized adult in that water. I've been that adult in the water xD
Deino are super tough, but I've found that my hunts work best when I've got the drop on someone.
Does anyone else have any concerns, or any information to bring into this?
Personal experiences, data?
Deino seems more like a mix of unpredictable assassination tactics, strategy and positioning. Instead of 1v1ing a raptor on the shore, dragging it into the water when they sweep close, say they are drinking or trying to attack a baby, it's usually better to drown them and use the water to your advantage.
Think less brute strength, more assassin's creed tactics.
Only think I can think of to balance things in their current state would be one suggestion I remember seeing recently. About adjusting land dino attacks in the water, to be fairly ineffective (looking at you, stego), making crossings more of a gamble. But if an overconfident deino tries taking on something on land, the land dino will keep the home field advantage.
Maybe a mild hitbox adjust on the dinos in general, since it might have been very mildly janked from the transfer (mouth feels slightly narrower on deino), just a little review to fuss with things since 3D models can be fussy when growing dynamically like these ones.
Anyone else noticing little variations since the change?
mighty knot
@dark anchor your suggesting Deinosuchus realism, and however much I would love to play as the apex predator of the waterways, it needs to be balanced, especially now. Yes it's mega handicapped by it's dependance on water, but stego is a land animal who's basically perfect for fighting Deino. I agree the damage should go up, but it shouldn't win against stego in land
short scroll
Exactly, they have to balance things on what's currently available.
short scroll
A slight buff to bite strength would be realistic, and warranted.
mighty knot
Headshot multiplier
Go up for Deino
So if something wants to walk away so be it
But if it's drinking you could hurt it more
Also reward for good aim
short scroll
Leaning in more to the assassination playstyle.
short scroll
Since Deino is an ambush predator, using the headshot damage would make sense.
mighty knot
Lean towards punishing defender on land
Prehistoric murder log in water
Make it so unless your in it's weight class
You should regret messing with it on land
Like Carno or utah
Increase Deino damage to heads
short scroll
Small creatures should definitely think twice
short scroll
Again, hopefully it'll get adjusted to hold it's own against more creatures as we get more.
mighty knot
Right now it's fine
short scroll
Exactly
mighty knot
Check my tug of war suggestion in general feedback
short scroll
It's having the ability to be sneaky, and unpredictable that is incredibly useful.
jolly osprey
Honestly, all it needs is bigger/deeper lakes and it’s golden. Aside from that buff via map design, Deino is perfect.
short scroll
Unless you know that the water is shallow, and it's cornered, you have no idea how many deino are in that water source.
mighty knot
Let me get the link
short scroll
Could be one, could be a mated pair, or in the rare case that cannibalism isn't common, it could be a swarm.
You have no idea.
mighty knot
Link doesn't work on mobile
Here
Deino needs to have a tug of war with things in it's own weight class. I saw a suggestion a couple days ago from I don't know who (I'll edit the message and put the name here if I can find it) that talked about a way to do the tug of war. Let me restate what they said plus add some more and plead for it to become a reality. Numbers may vary a little.
When Deino lunges anything on land that weighs >50%-95% it's weight to the front half of the body, it begins a tug of war. It doesn't have to use water lunge, but the usefulness on land is very limited since there's no water as a goal anyway.
Basically, A S and D will control the tug of war for both parties. If one party holds S, they drag the other with some cost of stam. If both hold S, neither move at a stam cost for both.
In order to make any ground as a Deino, you must use A and D. While you hold A, you tug to that side and bring your target towards the water. As the target, you need to hold D to counter and stop the movement. If the Deino then switches to holding D, the target must switch to holding A to counter.. There is no way for the target to bring the Deino out of water if it is holding S, as if it hit a decent lunge it's already pretty far out and at a disadvantage to group members attacking during this tug of war.
Weight balancing:
The bigger the target, the more stamina the Deino uses holding S, not by much, as within the range both parties should still have a chance.
The actual balance comes from direction delays. At the lower end of the range, targets will need to act within a very short time in order not to loose ground, on the larger end, they might have a second or two to figure it out.
I think this gives ample chances for skill based close range combat and a fun experience for both parties. Besides, if there is more than one target, the Deino will just get cucked from 3 angles as it tries to pull something in.
Give Deino that and it's set forever
short scroll
Could be interesting, but it would probably cause issues if the deino is trying to drag away something from a herd/pack
mighty knot
Yeah it should regret that
short scroll
They'd get swarmed
mighty knot
Sure would
short scroll
So it could be great, but I can see it being a mechanic that would be loved or hated.
mighty knot
Read it I explained
short scroll
It'd be great with really large herbis if you can catch them alone, ones you normally wouldn't be able to drag
mighty knot
I doubt you got all of it in the 8 seconds after I posted it
short scroll
I think I read it earlier
mighty knot
Ah ok
short scroll
It'd be great for big dynamic battles, but not common fights
mighty knot
Cool if stego solo goes to drink
short scroll
Exactly
mighty knot
Stego is in the middle of that weight range I suggested
Would be one of the more fair tug or wars
short scroll
Exactly, and it's certainly not an easy creature to take down
So it lets a deino to take a risk if it's starving, and wants to take that bet.
azure hinge
im not sure what could be done to help stuff like this out
but basically entire NA2 happens nearly every day carnos utahs and stegos all camp the deino spawn point
golden coral
Were they there since you spawned?
azure hinge
the stegos have been yes
the stegos killed me early too but i made a new one, and i stay away from the other spawn points as a deino because i get cannibalized almost always at some point in the rivers
golden coral
Well, that spawnpoint do have its issues. I'd suggest taking your chances with the other two, it can't be worse than being locked in cause of bad area.
azure hinge
sturdy mirage
Gator Pond is basically a stego fightclub.
azure hinge
like i said idk what could even be done to fix this i think ive seen 2 max size deinos or at least around 90% size deinos die because the area is just heavily camped by every other species, they try and take a chance to get the stegos and usually die because of it, after they die this is what this area usually looks like
golden coral
Better design of the pond, or just not have a spawn up there really.
There might always be some areas you just don't go to unless you have the clear advantage
It just goes bad when you're stuck there cause spawn or so
Instead of you deliberately choosing to take the risk
azure hinge
well there is a whole other issue of not enough food or ai elsewhere that makes deinos cannibalize the other spawn points against other deinos
golden coral
Have you tried up the two rivers from the main south one?
azure hinge
im not suggesting solutions just putting out the problems that i see
yes and actually moved away from that 1 because i swam to it and a baby ran onto land to avoid me than typed "be careful" and as i turned the corner and saw 2 large crocs eating a full grown croc in the water
golden coral
Yeah, I know. And I agree, what you're showing is a bad. I'm thinking it comes down to spawn points and bad map design at times. There's nothing really wrong with getting locked up there if you decide to risk it, but it should be up to you, not just get spawned and stuck there or so.
Alright. I think there's usually fish on the way up to, and at the end of those two river offshoots
azure hinge
so i naturally turned around and headed back to the other direction where i came past a larger deino that attacked me i ran on land to avoid him
golden coral
So if you can make it up there, and there's no one around, you might be good for a bit
azure hinge
and then a stego im assuming a discord friend killed me with him as i ran out of stam
sturdy mirage
To be honest, Legacy official servers or servers with no rules in general all suffered from similiar problems too. Just get on a rule server for Evrima and that fixes the problem to an extend.
crystal wharf
@unkempt glacier everything but stego and the new bois had their growth reduced, not just utah
hollow canyon
I'd argue that shortening the growth time of everything by the same amount is a bigger buff to the things that already took shorter to grow though. E.g. Dryo is the biggest winner of this patch's growth changes, followed by Utahraptor.
modest carbon
Once you hit adult as carno it's difficult really get killed, ignoring cannibalism, starvation, etc. And it always seems like there's a surplus of carnos and they really don't have a problem removing packs of utahs 4 - 6 strong
Also ignoring getting deleted by deinos
Honestly I was super surprised utah got a decreased growth rate considering how much damage they can do in large numbers. At 1.5 hours there already were packs of 14+ utahs taking everything in their wake because of their numbers
alpine plover
That's to be expected, everything can be powerful in numbers
Now the growth rate, yeah I'm a bit upset about that too
hollow canyon
@languid frost Utah hasn't been nerfed though and Carno can't kill it in two bites unless it headshots it.
languid frost
It's 500kg now, it was 700kg for females and 701 for males before this update
So yeah they can kill you in 2 bites now on the body
stark knoll
health is unrelated to weight in evrima
languid frost
Yeah supposedly... so or it is related after all, or they nerfed health the same time
stark knoll
utah does not die to carno in 2 body shots
golden coral
Do the carno charge do damage, or just the stun/knockdown?
stark knoll
it does damage
it can insta kill if somethings small enough, i have no idea how much damage it does
languid frost
Welp it just happened to me, then tried carno and killed a utah in 2 bites... or it's a really big coincidence that both that carno and myself after, landed a headshot that didn't show on my screen, or they just nerfed utah health
It makes the same dmg than bite, or at least was like that before this update @golden coral
golden coral
Okay, thank you!
And yeah, I think you got headshot, to be fair, hitboxes and stuff can be iffy, so it's .. hard to say what really happens in combat at times :p
languid frost
Could be that, but still is kinda weird that after they resized carno and made it "slower" turning I'm unable to 1v1 a fg carno when I was able to do it before the update
There's something wrong there, at least they fixed the huge bite hitbox bigger than the model
golden coral
Maybe you just ran into better carnos now?
Or you had some bad luck with not getting tailhits
Could be if they changed the hitboxes around
languid frost
Could be 😂 I'll figure it out after some days fighting carnos lol
languid frost
It's supposed they fixed tail hitboxes too
golden coral
angry stego noises Little rats tanking stego swings with their tailboxes.. :p
languid frost
And there was no lag (which is weird) cause it was a good and not populated server
golden coral
Just you wait.. one of these days!
But yeah, could be some hitboxes working better now
And hence catching you in vital areas more often/easier
languid frost
Could be but it really feels like they did something that makes utah weaker or carnos stronger
Also that 180° turn in place just sliding that fast is insane, almost imposible to stay way from their bites, I think devs only changed the walking turn rate not running
I killed 2 baby stegos as baby carno without effort thanks to that
hollow canyon
@languid frost Utah has 1000health. It has had 1000 hp since the release and it hasn't changed.
The only situation where you die to two bites from Carno is if it lands two headshots as the headshot multiplier will have you take over 500hp which will kill you in two bites.
languid frost
Well I'm gonna look for a carno the next time I play and allow it to bite my body to check how many bites it needs lol
hollow canyon
It needs three, three bites to the Utah's body deal 1050 hp which is lethal to a Utahraptor.
languid frost
Then was a big coincidence both times as utah and as carno I didn't see any headshot
hollow canyon
Weight isn't connected to hp at all in Evrima. The only thing it does affect is which animals you can pin down with the pounce/stun/knockdown with the charge/tailslam
languid frost
Maybe that huge bite hitbox isn't fixed after all
hollow canyon
I've gotten hit on the head as a Utah when it looked from my perspective like I got hit on my tail so there's that
Very likely a matter of hitboxes and bitesockets
languid frost
Yeah I know hp and weight hasn't been connected since the beggining but when I've seen 500kg after I died by 2 bites to the body (on my screen), I thought about the possibility
hollow canyon
From my experience as a Utah it seems like it hasn't changed. Probably just wonky hitboxes but I might test it later on some server if I have the time for that.
languid frost
That's what I'm gonna do these days too cause I feel it different rn, was easy to die fighting carnos before if you didn't correctly move, but well... what I already said, looks easier now and weird
bleak forum
So as a full Grown Deino, I hit the perfect ambush on a full grown teno. I had full stam before the ambush dragged it down to the bottom of the river bed and held it underwater until i burned all of my stamina. The Teno was able to swim from the bottom and make it to land while i was behind it and biting it 
. I mean if we aren't going to talk about increasing the bite force to at least 750 at least add some grapple damage ticks so we can secure adult kills. I mean i can't be the only one that feels the Deino is close to feeling complete but is just off in a weird way.
thin herald
Deino is so weak
No it isnt
Lmao. Just because you want to face-tank things doesn’t mean its weak. Deino isnt a face-tanking creature
I literally drowned 4 carnos, killed 5 utahs while on land, 3 stegos and a couple of tenos
bleak forum
where is the face tanking things coming from and i never said my deino died
thin herald
Its people who play it as a water rex
grave veldt
I have killed 2 Carnos 3 Utah’s and one stego personally deino isn’t weak, it’s a very niche play type that’s why it’s bite isn’t high
thin herald
Not directed towards you
grave veldt
If u give deino high bite dmg then what’s the point of it lunging if it can just kill things in a bite or two
thin herald
I just get pissed bc people who migrated from Legacy to Evrima dont know how to play evrima
They want legacy balance
bleak forum
I'm saying when it comes to adults it seems that it could use a buff for its size and hours of growth it could be a little stronger or have a little more added it just feels like its lacking a bit when it comes to adult fighting
grave veldt
Growth time doesn’t always account for what the Dino is made to be
thin herald
Growth =/= weight
grave veldt
Good example is ptera and Utah, Utah is only 15 minutes more then Ptera yet it’s much more powerful, why? Because it’s what the Dino is
Ptera is meant to be a fisher and glider while Utah is made to be a pack hunter
thin herald
Its how the fundamentally the dino preforms, how its balance is etc
grave veldt
^
bleak forum
two T4 dinos should both have a fair chance at killing each other are you telling me you feel the stego should be superior to the deino as it is now?
I mean i know things will change as more dino's enter the world and more systems but at the moment i do feel the drag and drown mechanic if given a damage tic or an increase in damage would really bring the deino to a close to perfect place
rapid bison
I just get pissed bc people who migrated from Legacy to Evrima dont know how to ...
like when people expect carno to be just a "i'm horrible to control and kill things with" dinosaur and then complain when they die to one
hollow canyon
Stego isn't superior to Deino in terms of the thing that matters the most in a survival game and that is... actually surviving. Stegosaurus is still very much killable by a pack(or even a single one in certain cases) of Utahraptors. Meanwhile the only thing that threatens a Deinosuchus is another Deinosuchus as long as you don't do dumb stuff like trying to fight terrestrial animals on their terms. Does Deino underperform for an 8t croc? Yea, kinda. That's very likely because the animal wasn't meant to be as big as it is but the community kept screeching and pestering the devs making them up its size so they did just that however the actual animal still performs like it would've before the upsize.
azure hinge
I just get pissed bc people who migrated from Legacy to Evrima dont know how to ...
they have yet to balance anything that much, its still fresh content, balance isnt something that's just immediate otherwise nothing would need to be "discussed" hence the channel
idk why you would ever say this is 100% how they meant stuff to be balanced, no one knows about the balance until everything is implemented this is just a talk about it dont get upset about reading text
thin herald
they have yet to balance anything that much, its still fresh content, balance is...
I had a stroke reading this.
azure hinge
im sure you have lots of problems and its not because you are well balanced in your choices
thin herald
Well thank you! Neat little compliment
thin herald
idk why you would ever say this is 100% how they meant stuff to be balanced, no ...
When did I say this was 100%
grave veldt
they have yet to balance anything that much, its still fresh content, balance is...
No offense but I have no idea what this even means
short scroll
I believe it's more that the balance between Deino and Stego aren't currently balanced in terms of having the home field advantage. Stego can stand an equal or better chance even in the water, while it should be that the odds should be tilted in the Deino's while in water, and Stego for purely on land.
bleak forum
Stego isn't superior to Deino in terms of the thing that matters the most in a s...
when it comes to the size of the Deinosuchus, the 8 tons is going off the largest fragment remains found in 2002 most likely and based off that. it would be about right. I do hear what your saying but the issue i see is since the Deino has such a hard time drowning adult prey you find yourself either giving up your prey or fighting on their terms most of the time. So a slight increase wouldn't make the deino over powered by no means. if we could at least drag the stegos as adults into the water but take huge stamina hits it would at least give deinos a more competitive shot when fighting against them, giving stego adults a little fear of the water. and those damage ticks would make mastering the lunge and ambush even more exciting to execute.
bleak forum
I believe it's more that the balance between Deino and Stego aren't currently ba...
exactly you hit the nail on the head.
rich fractal
ya i just want things near deino's weight class to be afraid a bit. like said if you could grab them for a bit and do a chunk of damage so they are scared to just stand there. there shouldnt be 6 ton animals that want to get attacked by 8 ton animals
grave veldt
stego overall shouldnt be a prey to deino and not something it should rly want to take on
i def agree something should be done with stego literally "spear fishing" lol
rich fractal
ya we have the opposite problem right now the stegos want to prey on deino's lol
grave veldt
ye lol
stegos should ofc hold the advantage in general but by the water it should be deinos thing
since its a water apex
although i still think just making rivers better
would fix this
since then deino can just swim away
or dive deep
dense hamlet
Packs should destroy solo dino's, whatever that dino is. It's only normal. stop complaining cause your favorite dino can't solo packs of utahs
vestal gust
Packs do roll everything, that's fine
what's not fine is a single utah cucking a carno or a teno because you've just used your entire stam bar bucking and the utah is still attached to you
rich fractal
i dont want deino's to hunt the same weight class or have to run and hide cause they would lose to lower weight animals. i want a happy medium where they dont wanna mess with eachother cause they could both hurt eachother and the croc could dip in water at any time and the land animal could leave the water. but people are usually 0 or 100 on things lol
grave veldt
i dont want deino's to hunt the same weight class or have to run and hide cause ...
this is a very sensible statement 100% agree
rich fractal
grave veldt
vestal gust
Not to mention you can't run with a utah pounced on you as a teno or a carno so using trees to knock them off doesn't work like it does with steg
so you're stuck to bucking which just isn't effective at all
not to mention the ez mode pounce where they can just pounce right at your head and then get teleported to your side
dense hamlet
Not to mention you can't run with a utah pounced on you as a teno or a carno so ...
Huh ? You can run i have ran everytime a utah pounced me as a carno, just stay close to a tree, be it in the forest or plains and you take away almost all opportunity, their bite is horrible now for some reason so pounce is their best bet
vestal gust
You cannot run with a utah pounced on you as a full grown teno, and anything less than full adult carno also loses it's ability to run
dense hamlet
Well having something half your weight latch on to you will obv slow you down though...and honestly tenos destroy utahs
Like 1 on q
1
vestal gust
they don't destroy them, it's about a 50/50 if the utah is good and knows how to exploit the pounce
dense hamlet
And pounce takes a lot more stam now
And a smart utah player will use pounce as a finisher
vestal gust
then how can a utah completely deplete me from 3/4 health with a full stam bar with me bucking
Was at 3/4 health, a full stam bar and was bucking, I ran out of stam and could no longer buck before he was knocked off and then promptly died as I couldn't do anything
dense hamlet
I have like 500 of my 600 hours of play as utah and when i pounce a tenoand it bucks i have to let go after the first buck cause it would take too much stam
vestal gust
a full stam bar worth of bucking and the utah didn't fall off
dense hamlet
Ummm that is weird
vestal gust
unless it was bugged
dense hamlet
Yeah some lag i am sure
Cause also
Everytime i got pounced on as a teno i was still able to run
And also when i pounce a teno it always ran
So something happened there
vestal gust
I was locked in this sort of weird anim where I was half bent over
and was only moving at a walking pace
dense hamlet
Oh yeah you definitely lagged
I have run into a lot of bugs since the ipdate has been up
vestal gust
and right before it happened I couldn't control the direction I was moving and had to use the stuck command to regain control
dense hamlet
yeah that right there should have told you that it was lagging that sucks though
ripe zinc
@short scroll Skimming is a massive assist when flying above the water, and it is not difficult at all really. Making it even easier would surely be overkill.
short scroll
Since the transfer from the stress test to regular, it seems like something in the IK system seems to be mildly malfunctioning, creating a pull that if you skim close will vacuum you into the water in certain areas.
There have been several people reporting this, but it doesn't seem consistent.
slim dragon
Then the solution would be to fix it (because it's obviously a bug) instead of putting a bandaid mechanic over it
short scroll
It's currently a little choppy, and hairline when you are trying to skim, and a light adjustment of that assist would make the motion feel a little smoother.
Emphasis on light
slim dragon
I like the fact that skimming is hard, ptera is already insanely easy to play, and it gives a feeling of pride when you manage to catch a fish
short scroll
Actually, my SO and I were struggling for hours due to this combination of what seems to be an IK issue, and them actually messing with things right before launch, so I'm merely suggesting another light pass to do more adjustments to smooth out the motions.
slim dragon
Just fixing the "vacuum" bug would make everything right
short scroll
Nothing extreme, but seeing as how we couldn't hold a skim for even a second before being pulled under, it seems janky in only certain areas.
Which is why I suggested doing another pass, to both fix the bug and adjust the mechanic.
slim dragon
The mechanic really doesn't need to be adjusted imo
short scroll
It should feel smooth and fun, not stressful every time you are skimming. You already have to battle aiming and deinos, it's good to not have too much going on in a mechanic that you need for survival.
slim dragon
It's not that hard honestly
short scroll
Have you personally tried the skimming everywhere, since the recent patch?
slim dragon
Not everywhere, only where there were fish
short scroll
The northern areas, near the coast, were near impossible in some spots to get into without getting sucked down, and there may be more spots. Again, I'm suggesting a light passover to both patch this and make it feel smooth and satisfying.
IK systems are very fussy, so it may need more tweaks and fussing.
This wasn't 5 minutes of playing and giving up, this was a couple hours. We tried methodically testing each fix, but even holding or tapping spacebar while skimming in some areas doesn't help, even on full stamina.
In fact, a few spots ended up pulling us down faster. We were lucky we were on an empty server testing this.
slim dragon
Well you have a bug
This is why I say the bug should be fixed before changing anything else
short scroll
It seems like a mix of borked IKs, and slightly fussy stabilization systems, which is why I figured it'd be good to mention it here too.
And see if anyone has any more data to figure out if this may be another matter, weed out different areas this may be happening in, etc.
ripe zinc
satisfying? catching fish without skimming is satisfying, skimming is ez mode
short scroll
Again, in some sections it's far more difficult.
The hitboxes and IKs seem uneven and fussy. Which again is why I'm suggesting a light pass and review to see if that helps.
I've repeated this, constantly, for the past two days.
ripe zinc
I haven't encountered any such sections. But if some areas are bugged the obvious solution is to fix those areas, skimming is fine.
short scroll
And again, I'd like to weed out possible areas and different data to figure out where and why this is happening.
So instead of repeating the same thing over and over again, what areas have you tried
slim dragon
It doesn't matter because it's clearly a bug that happens to some players and not others
short scroll
It could be a bug, or a general change they made to ptera, it's difficult to tell since they didn't release clear patch notes yet.
slim dragon
Maybe it's even server-related, since you said you were testing it on an unofficial server
Since I never get that kind of behaviour when I was playing ptera after update 3 release, I'm pretty sure it's a bug
short scroll
Also possible, though it was happening to two of us on the same server, and I've seen it happening in a few other videos. Again, more data is certainly needed to conclusively say if this was an adjustment or a real bug.
But as someone who has fussed with 3D models before, a pass on hitboxes and detection, and doing little adjustments never hurts. It's good to check things over for errors between versions.
slim dragon
It can't be an adjustment if it doesn't happen to everyone
short scroll
But sometimes it can regulate things to work better, again, no big changes. Just a passover to make sure everything is working correctly, and possibly smooth things out to make it work better. Right now, in some areas it feels janky, and thus as I've said multiple times, it may help smooth things over and figure out why it's getting borked as well. Drop it.
ripe zinc
@dawn hazel herbivores can't starve, just eat grass. By fallen fruit I assume you mean eating in the woods, that's no good.
why the negative reactions to not having space accelerate when flying?
slim dragon
Because two things
Ptera doesn't accelerate when pressing space
Ptera shouldn't be hunting in the forest anyway
ripe zinc
Because two things
Ptera doesn't accelerate when pressing space
Ptera shouldn't ...
that makes sense, for obvious reasons I never tried hunting anything in forests and haven't paid attention to whether or not it actually does that tbh
modest carbon
shift
dawn hazel
<@!315468563517538305> herbivores can't starve, just eat grass. By fallen fruit ...
but looking for stuff is kinda fun too, and a nice detail. think of it as a fun and uncommon snack in the woods. they dont have to be everywhere in the forest floor.
ripe zinc
but looking for stuff is kinda fun too, and a nice detail. think of it as a fun ...
the whole idea with herbs eating grass and specific bushes in fields is to have them eat in the open where they're liable to be spotted by carnivores though
slim dragon
Some herbivores are intended to be forest dwellers though
dawn hazel
well i think traveling in forest should have a fun little activity
slim dragon
Because otherwise forest carnis will have nothing to eat
dawn hazel
as i said the fruit doesnt have to be many or very helpful in hunger bar
slim dragon
So maybe not fallen fruits, but jungles deserve some sort of food source
dawn hazel
So maybe not fallen fruits, but jungles deserve some sort of food source
yeah
besides herbi gameplay should have some fun stuff to do
slim dragon
Yes
dawn hazel
or grabbing things, what will all the ptera flexing their catch
i wanna brag about my mango too if im a hypsi
hollow canyon
@bleak forum That's not exactly what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that Deinosuchus was meant to be smaller than it is in the game right now. The first roadmap called it a "medium carnivore" and the animal was at most 6t at the time, having been somewhere around(slightly below iirc) 10m in lenght. This animal clearly performs more akin to a crocodillian of that size rather than the current one and it makes sense why - it was meant to be smaller than it is. As for what the size is based on - it's loosely based on the proposed sizes by Fadeno from the last year.
mighty knot
@silver elbow Ptera shouldn't be hunting in the forest, and honestly if the thing your hunting isn't a juvie or smaller your really not supposed to be hunting it at all. Ptera eats fish not juvies.
hollow canyon
@steady palm Deino is not supposed to compete with Rex.
steady palm
?
lament cloak
deino is definitly not supposed to compete with rex.
hollow canyon
I mean... I don't know how I can expand on that - Deino is not meant to be competing with Rex. Spinosaurus is supposed to be having at best a 50% chance to defend itself from a Tyrannosaurus. Deinosuchus interaction with Spinosaurus itself has been described by Punch as "Deino's best shot is to swim away", clearly implying that Spinosaurus would very much have the upper hand over the croc. Everything we know about Deinosuchus so far seems to imply that it isn't meant to be an apex-class animal in the roster of the game, therefore it's not meant to be competing with T.rex... like at all.
grave veldt
Deino hissing at Rex in a trailer doesn’t mean it’s going to be able to defend itself against one lol
If u wanna defend urself against a rex be a spino when these things come out
lament cloak
or even better a trike, that thing is practically a perfect counter to rex, and if you look at the trailer again, you can see the deino begin to retreat back into the water after about 3 seconds of the rex roaring
grave veldt
Or better yet anky an actual living tank lol
Or maybe shant, it’s big enough to trample a rex to death
There’s a lot of things if u wanna kill a rex deino is just very niche
slim dragon
Or maybe Brachi
It's big enough to trample a rex to death and not even notice it
grave veldt
harsh heron
Anyone know if the utah can still kill a carno with 2 full pounces?
vapid fable
grave veldt
Anyone know if the utah can still kill a carno with 2 full pounces?
Yes if u get both full pounces off w/o it bucking
signal fable
@wispy valley It makes sense to one shot a utah or a ptera, but then the Deino would be an Apex and maybe even unbalanced? Maybe if the special attack one shot it then yes, I'd agree with you
high shale
@Ult. Fluff #ThiccRex #CherryWen dude just lunge the utahs. Even at 50% growth on deino you can lunge grab full adult utahs. Once you grab them its game over for them. With the patch going live they've even made it so you can lunge in the water even when you're not on the bottom of the river.
signal fable
@Ult. Fluff #ThiccRex #CherryWen dude just lunge the utahs. Even at 50% growth ...
Oh I didnt know it was a thing LMAO, so yeah listen to this guy
sleek iron
I guess even 20% deinos can lunge at utahs
rapid bison
once you have 1000 kg you can grab utahs
modest carbon
Stego can't even 1 shot utahs unless it's a headshot
dusky surge
have you used the tail attack that seems to work pretty good in that regard
sinful cove
More on the side of nerfing utah hp because its growth is so damn fast anyway and the little cunts are everywhere, hopefully deino will also get some fracture damage so it can cripple the cocky jp raptor ripoffs too
wheat field
Deino is gonna get its buff eventually when more dinos come out
mighty knot
I'm leaning towards nerfing utah HP as well
again
"just use RMB" is avoiding the question
wispy valley
Utah needs a nerf period. These are pack creatures and should be treated accordingly. 1000 hp is too much for something that can jump around and pounce and give everybody trouble.
No less than 500.
mighty knot
Utah packs are a little too dominant right now
they should absolutely be a force to be reckoned with don't get me wrong
but it's bad rn
wispy valley
What's the max Utah pack?
wispy valley
Then we should calculate how much damage 6 utahs do a second and accordingly scale it.
mighty knot
6 utahs should cuck a stego
maybe not 2
6 utahs should kill a deino on land
NOT
2 utahs kill both
like it is now
wispy valley
6 utahs shouldn't even cuck a Deino on land.
mighty knot
I speak from the standpoint that we are sticking with Deinosuchus in name only
wispy valley
I wish we had a fear mechanic.
wispy valley
I feel stegos are too op.
mighty knot
I wanna say too much damage
but I also feel like those spikes hurt
THEN AGAIN
I feel like gator chomp should hurt
and it doesn't
wispy valley
I can't wait for fractures to affect how fast you turn. Fuck you stegos.
mighty knot
There are people who think deino shouldnt get fracture damage
wispy valley
I really wish death roll was an attack animation
mighty knot
admittedly I think that was the same person that thinks one utah should kill everything in game
wispy valley
There are people who think deino shouldnt get fracture damage
Go ahead and stick your hand in a crocodile's mouth and see what happens.
Bones don't break. Bones SHATTER.
mighty knot
I hate to say it but balance
yeah deino lunge should literally turn that stego's head into plasma but
how is that fun for a stego player
of course
how is being forced to live in water or die fun for deino
wispy valley
A Utah going up against something 6 times its size (utahs should be 500kg not one ton) and getting shredded in 3 bites is not balanced.
A well-placed bite on the head should be game over.
wispy valley
Rex heads hits
mighty knot
deino needs a headshot multiplier that's high
wispy valley
*rex headshots
signal fable
I really wish death roll was an attack animation
A death roll would be dope to have as a special attack animation once you lunge and get a dino in your mouth, then your deino could pull back into the water and do the animation
wispy valley
I feel like certain dinos should score critical hits more often.
Bleeders like allo and acro and giga crit bleeds on the legs and neck more often.
Rexes who bite the neck, spine, and head more than once paralyze prey.
mighty knot
that's fun until it's not anymore
wispy valley
It takes two hits from a rex on a precise spot to paralyze.
wispy valley
Someone told me one bite from a rex shouldn't kill a Utah. I call bullshit.
wispy valley
One bite from a rex AT LEAST should make a Utah never run or jump again
wispy valley
If the swing attack was slower and gave Stego some downtime, I would be fine with the damage staying the same
Really make Stego swing its hips and launch that tail, not just flick its tail.
Stego animations have no weight smh.
A lot of these animations have no weight.
lean shoal
stego should get an alt swing that works like the legacy one but does less damage than the jab it has on rmb.
spare badger
I've been saying this forever lol
Kind of like PoT Stego sweep.
@grim rune damage is no longer based on weight. Deino does 500 damage, and with a headshot 2x damage multiplier it can do a max of 1000 damage with its normal bite
Carno has more health than that
Also deino one shotting carno exists
It's called lunge. It can kill a carno by drowning it.
frosty heron
The people who is asking for nerfing Utahs even more should think twice what youre asking for, less hp? Yeah sure let's give Carnos a 2 shot on Utahs and Stegos 1 shot them with tail hits, pretty balanced
Specially when locked damage is now way worse
Utah isn't a Velo, by the way it hunts it should be able to tank a hit at least, which is enought to make it retreat to safety
warm finch
@grim rune a deino does on full adult only 500 damage , so basicly it cant oneshot a carno
grave veldt
A Utah going up against something 6 times its size (utahs should be 500kg not on...
i think the main issue is that utah has way too much hp imo
it weighs 500 kg but has half of a carnos hp something thats more then twice as heavy as it
desert geode
Can anyhing be done with deino players who just hang on spawn and pile up bodies
i mean its not only deinos ofc. but south spawn for example just spawns other deinos in campers mouth and its endless
spare badger
Get a stego to help
grave veldt
or u can grow a stego and slap it
or just spawn somewhere else (unless their at all the spawns)
desert geode
i like most of the changes but curret sistem is heaven for dirtbags
also since its a ballance channel.. adult ptera needs more stamina badly.. full deinos getting killed by carnos too easly.. as guy above said. it must be able to 1 shot a carno if not atleast to grab him and take him to water.
also stego. makes noise when resting.. or idle.. stego is just begging to die..
5 is is too long for stego
grave veldt
firslty stego as 5 hours is fine its basically the strongest dino in the game atm
spare badger
True
grave veldt
ptera stam is quite fine if u manage it
desert geode
would be good to make deino food last longer if for nothing atleast to maybe prevent all the canibalizing
grave veldt
its not supposed to be high as its a fisher and a glider
spare badger
It could be lowered when rex is in the game and ptera Stam as adult is good
desert geode
its uberunrealistic stam for ptera
grave veldt
stego vs rex is up to the devs on how they wanna make it
desert geode
ptera was not a living kite.. its a flyer
spare badger
Sucho shouldn't be slower lol sucho was not that slow but rex should be
grave veldt
its uberunrealistic stam for ptera
not its quite fine ptera is a fisher and a glider not an aerial combatant its meant to be low and fish
spare badger
^
grave veldt
quetz would be the one with high stam as its meant to fly high and long distances
desert geode
no one said combatant. but full grown pterra cant fly from east spawn up to the tower 300 m away
cause its a high climb and he just uses all stam
desert geode
u cant glide up mate
grave veldt
ive made it pretty easily uo there
grave veldt
i dont understand what ur complaining about
desert geode
yes i did that too
desert geode
a bird with such poor stamina is not a viable creature.
spare badger
Yes it is
desert geode
would never survive in nature.. but ofc its a game
spare badger
Don't fly super high then?
grave veldt
a bird with such poor stamina is not a viable creature.
literally the easiest creature to survive as
desert geode
it is man.. its beyond the point
spare badger
Just glide above the tree line
desert geode
i can glide as fresh spawned ptera half the map that is not the point..
spare badger
Ive survived a long time as a ptera until I crashed into a rock but that's on me
desert geode
nvm
desert geode
<
spare badger
That's it's niche
grave veldt
thats what ptera is
spare badger
I still don't understand your argument it's Stam is enought get off the ground and fish and stuff
grave veldt
niche take priority of what the dino is first
spare badger
Unless it's Saurian
grave veldt
its why deino is the same growth as stego but not as good on land
grave veldt
lmao
spare badger
I think that we need group chat cause that's really the only way to incentivise people to be in the correct group size
Cause otherwise there is no point
grave veldt
they said they got rid of grp chats so ur not looking at 2 deinos infront of u talking about killing u and u have no idea
spare badger
I mean that makes some sense but what the point in grouping anymore
spare badger
That needs some work
grave veldt
if u can all just talk
spare badger
Do you think pachy will be good now?
grave veldt
hopefully
spare badger
I hope so
spare badger
I wanna play the little herbi that could but dryo can't fight thinhs
grave veldt
good pachy should have some kind of pounce resistance or pounce parry
spare badger
Will it have a carno esc charge?
grave veldt
maybe im guessing it'll have a charge or maybe something else
spare badger
I think pachy will be good support for herbi herds
It could fracture utah.and carno bones
grave veldt
maybe give it a special ability for "ram" how rams today rear up on the back legs and yeet their skull into something else
spare badger
Thats cool
grave veldt
just so we dont have two dinos with the same ability
spare badger
Yea but carno stuns and pachy would fracture so they'd have 2 different uses
spare badger
I can imagine a pachy ramming a carnos leg and fracturing it so the tenos and the stegos 9n the herd can finish it off
grave veldt
depends on how they do fractures
spare badger
Yea
grave veldt
and which dinos get fractures
spare badger
I think it'll be like bleed almost
grave veldt
locational bleed would be cool
spare badger
Where you get Stam back slower and such
grave veldt
say a stego slaps a carno in the face it should die in like 30 seconds maybe less of bleed unless it wallows runs and heals
spare badger
Like it's severity makes you.take damage if u run or makes u run slower, lose Stam faster, etc
spare badger
So a small break would make you lose Stam faster
But a bigger one makes you take damage every step and you can no longer run
Also yes
grave veldt
hope they make a tail hitbox as well since it would be less then the base of the tail but still more then tip of the tail
base of the tail is basically its ass
spare badger
I mean ya
frosty heron
i think the main issue is that utah has way too much hp imo
It doesn't really
spare badger
Idk y Utah's can tank a body shot with a stego hit that is a bit weird
frosty heron
Idk y Utah's can tank a body shot with a stego hit that is a bit weird
It can't, tank's tail base hits
grave veldt
it kinda does tbh a carno has 2000 hp right takes 1 more hour to grow and is 3.6 times heavier
frosty heron
Body should be 1 shot
grave veldt
yet utah has half its hp
spare badger
Did they change it?
frosty heron
Did they change it?
Been like that since u2 I believe
grave veldt
utah head and body was always one shot its base of the tail in which it doesnt one shot
grave veldt
1 head and body shot
2 base of the tail
9 tip of the tail
spare badger
Ic
frosty heron
There's 2 locations at the tail, tail tip and base
frosty heron
And now we have neck location aswell
grave veldt
3 on body 2 for head 4 or 5 on base and idk how many on tip
frosty heron
Well how many carno bites?
3 Head/Body
spare badger
Makes sense
grave veldt
2 for head due to locational dmg
spare badger
3 bites seems fair
grave veldt
3 on body is pretty fair tbh dont see too much issue
frosty heron
Yes but nerf the Utah hp more and we have a big issue
grave veldt
plus utahs can outmanuver carno
spare badger
Let's not do that
grave veldt
so glad carno actually takes some time to stop and turn
before it was way too fast now its good
u can efficiently out maneuver one
frosty heron
I can understand the Deino part, actually Utahs has nothing to do against an adult Deino so them not being capable of 1 shooting Utahs its not a big deal
spare badger
How will cera be balanced in evrima?
grave veldt
who knows
spare badger
It's supposed to be a brawling scavenger right?
frosty heron
How will cera be balanced in evrima?
Maybe with big bitteforce, idk how Cera will do
grave veldt
sort of like a brawling honey badger in a way
spare badger
Can fight the big Bois if it needs to bit scavenged most of the time
grave veldt
but in jungles or close quarters the tables turn
grave veldt
honey badgers taking on prides of lions
spare badger
Wonder what ceratos special ability/RMB attack will be
grave veldt
kind of crazy honestly
spare badger
True
frosty heron
grave veldt
maybe like a dmg stack thing?
where ur bite gets faster and faster the more it bites something?
spare badger
Maybe
alpine plover
@grim rune
The weight ratio thingy is no longer in play for evrima
No minus damage from small things onto bigger, no extra for bigger into smaller. Carno has 350 bite and 1800 or I think 2000 health
Deino has 500 bite and has 8000 health. They each do their bite damage to each other
So carnos can face tank 3 deino bites to the body-
grave veldt
it has 6000 hp actually
alpine plover
That’s actually dumb
grave veldt
not rly tbh
alpine plover
No kinda is. Utah has 1000 health and weighs 500 kg
hollow canyon
From what I've heard Deino has 7k hp. I haven't tested this though so I'm not sure. What I know for sure is that it has a tonne of health.
grave veldt
im almost positive it has 6k hp
stego five shots it right the only way this is possible is if stego has 1200 dmg
hollow canyon
What I know for sure is that after tanking around 30 bites from my Utah a Deino was just barely going down to the yellow line.
Remember about the headshot multipliers. Deino typically has its business end turned towards Stego
And unfortunatelly for Deino that's its head
grave veldt
it makes sense too
hollow canyon
Yea
grave veldt
plus where were u biting?
hollow canyon
I'm gonna take your word for it
nowhere, that's what multiple people were saying but since you've tested it I'm gonna believe you over the word of others who didn't provide any evidence.
grave veldt
u can join me and a few other with the testing if u wish\
i did it on bears server
MrDBear if you know who that is
lament cloak
@grim rune deino does 500 damage to carno, weight is not a factor for damage in evrima
hollow canyon
Yea I know who DBear is, unfortunately I have issues joining NA servers for some reason so it might be hard for me to join the server but if I see it around I'm gonna pop by
grave veldt
just letting yk about the server so u dont think im capping, im great with numbers so 
hollow canyon
Nah, I believe you, I've spoken to DBear on a couple of occasions in the game too where he invited me to come over. I just have some issues with seeing the NA servers atm.
grave veldt
ah np then
rapid bison
I shouldn't be able to bring down a full grown carno as a baby utah
immediately gets 9 downvotes
grave veldt
lol
golden coral
While weight had all sorts of issues, there should probably be something that can limit what you can and can't do. But if nothing else, trample and such should solve those kind of situations.
hollow canyon
^ Hopefully
silver elbow
@mighty knot well isnt that just silly, if i am able to hunt in the forest with success, it is just made more difficult than it has to be by taking away control of the bird. if i had full control of the bird, i can control it the way i want. atm i can only gain lift and speed. even though i do not want the speed, just the lift. and your reasoning is poor. i can hunt anything i manage to hunt. if i succeed in it, why should i limit myself.
i think the mechanic of gianing lift (spacebar) should be just that. and not give lift+speed. if i want speed ill use shift. which is why its there. its got nothing to do with what i should and should not be able to do. its a bout having full control over the bird.
golden coral
@silver elbow Why are you in a forest as a ptera? You're a fish eater, you can hunt the fish. There's no reason for you to go in there. Maybe the controls are a way to "limit" that. Just because you technically can, does not mean you should. If anything, ptera should probably get a damage nerf.
mighty knot
@silver elbow What were you hunting?
mighty knot
<@!474227371994644490> well isnt that just silly, if i am able to hunt in the fo...
Use the airbrake to remove that speed. If your going from shift flying to holding spacebar, you actually loose speed.
silver elbow
yes i know. but simply pressing the space bar gains speed. making it harder to fish also
so you have to airbreak all the time
mighty knot
skimming automatically holds your speed
spacebar only changes altitude during skimming
you need it to hold your altitude
you don't go faster when you do it
you just stop yourself from hitting the water
silver elbow
yes, if you use the skimming method. you can also peck
mighty knot
yes
silver elbow
i dont undestand why it would ever be necessary to add speed, when i just want the lift
like theres no benefit to it. it just takes it out of my control
mighty knot
because ptera isn't supposed to fly straight up
and if your moving so slow to do things like, skim the water without skimming
or hunt in a place ptera isn't meant to be
then what's the point
silver elbow
you dont have to fly straight up. just keep your pace, keep your altitute
keep control of the bird
mighty knot
totally controllable
silver elbow
yes, but not manual
mighty knot
just keep in mind you fly diagonally upward
and not straight up
there's no need to change it
ptera isn't made to hunt in forests
sure you can
but if the controls don't make it easy, sucks to suck, play it how it's supposed to be played
not sure what to tell you there
and if flying and pecking is too hard
skim with RMB instead
silver elbow
the controls only hurt. hunt in the plains. the lift + speed hurts. it doesnt help in any way
mighty knot
it literally flies forward slower than if you held W
it's not a speed boost
it's just making you go at normal speed
silver elbow
nothing is too hard. its just unnecessary
mighty knot
it'
s
not a feature though
not really
animations aren't meant for you to go at a different angle
they would have to reimplement going up in order to fix this "issue"
animations, velocities, syncing, any bugs that arise from tinkering
I think it's totally unnecessary for an issue that isn't there in the first place.
silver elbow
i always think. the more control is in the players hand. the higher the skill ceiling can grow. which is why i suggested it
mighty knot
what kind of skill ceiling
combat skill ceiling?
nothing ptera is made to do really has a skill ceiling
it's a fisher not a fighter
mighty knot
skimming does it automatically
silver elbow
but at a much higher risk vs the deinos
golden coral
I don't really see an issue with adding better/more control over the Ptera, but it needs damage nerfed in any case. And I still don't think Ptera should be very good in forests. Though at least it's small enough for that.
mighty knot
Yeah there's no real issue with it
it's just not worth the effort
ptera is very well made to do what it's meant to do. If you want to use it differently go ahead
more control is cool, but it's not worth the effort to change something that only benefits using ptera for things ptera wasn't meant to do
especially since it can FLY
silver elbow
thats really not the point. it only benefits the control the player has over the ptera. regardless of any way you decide to play it. and its not a game braker.
mighty knot
a very powerful ability on it's own
silver elbow
i posted it as a balancing feed back
mighty knot
ok
silver elbow
i love the ptera. and after 100+ hours of playing it. this was my little feedback. clearly not met with any enthusiasm. but its the only contribution i can give to improve upon a very good dino to play
golden coral
Honestly, I'm fine with your suggestion Mario, I do take issues with you being in forests hunting, cause that's not what Ptera should do, but that's more down to it's damage which should be fixed.
mighty knot
it's fun to play as a fisher and more fun to play as something to attack people with
Agreed, I would at least change your reasoning in your suggestion to what you brought up here
instead of "I'm having trouble using ptera in an unintended way, it needs to be fixed so it's easier to play off-meta with pteranodon"
something along the lines of "it allows more control for people playing ptera, and makes a higher skill ceiling to flight"
I think that's something that would be met with enthusiasm