balance-feedback-discussion

[elfin night]

Yeah, and I am criticizing something that has no backup as a balance take. Because balancing in a game is a priority, and bodybuff plus bacteria are both good, non invasive ideas to make cera fit in its role

[strong crypt]

also this one was on the official servers aswell

[violet cave]

No the buff is pretty big. It just doesn't seem big to you. I used to know how many bites it took for a utah to kill a rex

[elfin night]

Didn’t know 15% extra bleed regen or stamina regeneration were a huge thing in combat

Good ambush

[strong crypt]

this meant fort u valient and somone else who i argued about it the other day

[violet cave]

Well you learn a thing or two when spending endless hours fighting in sandbox

[elfin night]

Clueless Omnis and you had the advantage of a perfectly set up spot. Doesn’t prove in any way that pachy is good for survival and you already conceded that without even knowing when you said it is bad in a group.

Now I’m in another convo

[strong crypt]

well i always choose where i am u could argue their skill but this has been my experince the recent past days no matter the packs i come across. honestly having a blast with this dinosaur

[elfin night]

This doesn’t address the point that perfect diet barely matters in combat and that you have provided no real arguments as for why combat is random. You can still know how many bites it takes for a cera to kill a teno and stuff like that, and know all the numbers and still come out on top

And of course, it doesn’t have anything to do with the “it doesn’t make sense, therefore remove it” comment in balance chat

[strong crypt]

also i mean somone was talking about patchy not having the advantage vs 1 raptor in a fight and there is 3 of them there so should be impossible right!?!!

[hasty coyote]

I’m not gonna lie, those raptors were awful. You ambushed the green one and he was the only one to land a pounce, the neon stripe played so passive even when he had a perfect chance to pin and kill you, the orange one broke his own leg, and all of them ran in straight lines (generally straight towards you).

[strong crypt]

did you see me turning so they couldnt pounce me from the other side. Also to be honest the 1 mistake i did was run away from the tree so they could pounce me tbh

[hasty coyote]

If the other 2 had at least 1 braincells between them, you would have gotten pinned

[elfin night]

You made one good ambush

[hasty coyote]

And you def ambushed the right one

[strong crypt]

well if 1 of them ran the other way right it wouldve been alot harder then i would have to turn towards the one trying to pounce me and then head but him and keep the 3rd one on the side i wanted. HOWEVER this is 3 people who dont usually probably play with eachother which is often the case with raptor. for all we know they couldve both been trying to get on my other side in the same direction but did not communicate with eachoter

[elfin night]

Then they just fumbled

Also you almost killed yourself with two rams

[strong crypt]

IKR xD

[elfin night]

One slight difference in the ram and you would have died

[hasty coyote]

That too, your rams actually worked lol, only 1 of them bugged out

If that were me, only 1 of them would have landed

[strong crypt]

so thats becaus i missplaced it i have to account for the game being laggy and aim infront of them abit but thats another topic

[violet cave]

I'm not sure if you are blatantly ignoring what I'm saying or If this is a desperate attempt to push my buttons. I already said that combat will be made more random because of certain buffs like cera resistance, diet and other thing you (as a player) have no knowledge of when fighting your opponent. "On top of that", cera resistance just doesn't make much sense. I believe that's pretty obvious, no? And pretty solid arguments to remove it

And yes, diet will be the deciding matter between life or death. Especially if you are competitive player

[elfin night]

But they’re not random!!!

The only one you cannot really predict is the diet one and we already established it is minimal and will barely matter at all

And cera body buff is there for its role, you can just know about it and consider it

[elfin night]

It really won’t dude

[violet cave]

Not completely random no. But more randomized, yes. More than enough to screw you up

[elfin night]

Also you gave zero arguments as for why body buff should be removed other than “doesn’t make sense”. It works for its role, or do you disagree?

It’s part of cera’s kit and it’s a necessity or will be in the near future

If you’re a competitive player then play with people that you know won’t have diet or simply have perfect on your own, so at the very least you have leveled the playing field

[vale brook]

icl the body buff is one of the few things cerato is doing right lol

[violet cave]

Won't believe me, ok. But believe the player that fought other competitive players. And let me tell you that our matches were very very close. And sometimes, all you need is a small buff to win

[elfin night]

Competitive isle

[elfin night]

#balance-feedback-discussion message

[violet cave]

Yes, indeed

[vale brook]

its also criminally easy to get perfect diet

literally just any % in all diet slots gives you all the buffs iirc

[violet cave]

Well that just isn't possible, unless i arrange a match

[elfin night]

So you’re gonna be competitive and NOT arrange matches?

Or you could do exactly what you have been told right now and give yourself the perfect diet which barely costs any effort

Done, problem solved

[strong crypt]

also u might say they are horrible but this keeps being the case in every survival situation ive been in so far on like 5 patchy lifes in a row and i recall the argument was that you just die to the first thing that sees you which therefore is just not true and a skill issue

things that kill me are when i did this to like 4 carnos in a group alone lol

[elfin night]

Many isle players are rampantly incompetent sadly

[hasty coyote]

I can agree with mutations being random and op since they make MAJOR combat differences with 0 indication, but diets make a minimal difference at best. If you’re giving your opponent a chance to regen their stats for enough time so that 15% makes a difference, then you’re already making a mistake.

Body buff may not make sense realistically, but mechanically it makes sense and is very visible, since cera is actively making a constant noise and weird animation around a body. If your issue is “how is a player supposed to know this?” Then you should be looking at literally every other dino. This game teaches you nothing and throws you to the wolves (or raptors).

[strong crypt]

they should nerf carno :kappa:

[elfin night]

^^^^

[strong crypt]

i mean 4 of them killed me on patchy

[elfin night]

And again, no arguments as for why that’s bad for cera’s kit has been given

[violet cave]

Yeah I guess that's somewhat possible, annoying too. I'm just afraid it's going to get more random from here on out.

[hasty coyote]

Here’s the best way I can put it:
Pachy is bad because 1: it’s incredibly clunky, 2: it’s incredibly buggy, and 3: you have to put in much more effort just to survive than any other dino.

You seem to be a good pachy, which is great for you. But the average isle player is bad at the game because it’s honestly really hard to learn. Especially since you generally only fight like once an hour (or more). As such, you don’t need much effort to outplay your average player, even with the handicaps pachy has. If you were to fight a good Omni player, you would quickly see all the shortcomings of pachy.

[eager saddle]

This gives me league ptsd with one of the older champs

[elfin night]

Nah old champs rule

[eager saddle]

It specifically reminds me of old asol

[elfin night]

I started playing recently and I go mostly Noc so how would I know lol

I just do stuff

[eager saddle]

You should watch his old champion spotlight.

[hasty coyote]

Its basically the same issue as your standard stat stick. If you’re really good you can do stuff with it. If you’re against bad players you can do stuff with it. Any other instance, you lose.

[eager saddle]

Basically, if you were mediocre, you suffered. But one tricks could start a new account and climb to challenger in 1 season

So they couldnt buff him, No matter how much 99% of the players needed it

But ye, if you’re good you can almost make anything work is the moral of the story here

[hasty coyote]

I have seen people kill Omnis as a solo troodon, and I have seen dryos kill some pretty sizeable juvies as well as herreras. Does that mean it’s the norm? No.

[eager saddle]

True

[strong crypt]

i strongly disagree since patchy have a jump mecanic and is a herbivore so food is super easy to find also sanct mushrooms amazing i can easily reach 200% growth frequently. I choose where we fight and i can use rocks, if you dont do this and complain about your playable being weak learn the game. honestly growing a patchy is among the easiest things ive done in this since it takes like 1 hour or smth and on servers with 100ppl i rarely come across anyone during this time.

now when it comes to putting in effort to it. i think i have 30min to 1 hour of testing stuff and practice in combat with this dinosaur to understand it. obiviously i have more hours in finding others before they find me picking locations and other stuff, also i have a good understanding of combat in general

now it being buggy, this is just the isle in general and it happends on all the dinosaurs not only patchy, people shouldnt have to learn to play against this its simply an issue with the game that it is not supposed to be like. patchy especially suffer from this since they have a very high punish window when it does miss a headbutt due to lagg which is unfortunate but you can take countermeasures to it

now fighting a good omni player. ive done this. TBH i dont usually use terrain as much when i fight on duel servers since it is kinda cheesy especially in a 1v1 raptor vs patchy i feel like. but fighting 1 is alot of the time in my favour fighting 2 raptors it becomes really hard.

but most of the time raptor players arent good they are avrage but i dont see why we should balance after avrage players that would not be balancing that would be fan service. In my opinion balance is how strong is this and that regardless of skill levels

and this much more effort just to survive i mean if my goal was Just to survive i could just keep hidden and eat grass but it is not a funn playstyle.
fighting 1 raptor i mean learning to stand near a tree

is not impossible for an avrage player otherwise i would say you could beat them

Enjoy essay 🙂

but yeah looking for buggfixses on patchy im all for tbh i see no harm in that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtS9CA0sUvg For refrence when somone sees this message and says its impossible to beat raptors 1v1 ill post this again next to this massive message

[full ocean]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[hasty coyote]

Growing a pachy being easy does not matter to me in the slightest if the end result still sucks. It’s honestly not much shorter than growing a teno anyway, and a teno gives a LOT better end result.

The fact you have to constantly use advantageous terrain just to survive is proof that pachy is not in the best spot. No other Dino has to remain by rocks and trees for its entire life just to survive. Especially since pachy’s migrations move it out into the open with plains and beaches.

Pachy in particular has WAY more bugs than any other dino in the game, and they are way more impactful since they make your main attack consistently not function properly.

And I agree we don’t balance off average. Otherwise those 3 clowns you fought earlier probably would have killed you lol. I was saying that “I survived these times” generally comes down to “you were much better than your opponent, congrats” rather than pachy itself being in a good spot.

By “effort to survive” I mean in a fight. You are inevitably going to have to deal with stuff like Omnis and carnos (unless you sit in a bush eating grass). My issue is that you have to spend way too much effort in any matchup just to survive, not just against Omnis. Omnis can be countered by trees and rocks, but not everywhere has that terrain, especially common migration spots. Dilos will still face tank you unless you get head fracture, and the moment they get 3 bites (or 1 at night) they run off and you die to clone spam. Carno you have to hope for a leg fracture or they can and will still run you down. So in all of pachy’s most common matchups, they all boil down to “heavily outplay your opponent, get a leg fracture, or die” and that’s a major issue. If you’re able to outplay and leg fracture consistently then good for you, but that still makes this dino require much more effort than any other. All other Dino’s require the aggressor to outplay the defender, but pachy has the inverse.

And that’s all without mentioning the other issue pachy has: being able to just bully things it shouldn’t because of leg fracture.

The Dino in its current balance hinges on leg fracture to win, but when it does get leg fracture, the target is basically just dead. Which is incredibly unfun for both sides.

Here is all I want in the ways of pachy changes:
1: fix all the bugs
2: rebalance fractures. Namely: leg needs to not disable alts, body needs an immediate effect, head could prob use a nerf on the damage reduction, and add a stun on fracture application.
3: remove the self stuns
4: increase the speed to ~43 kph
5: depending on how pachy ends up from the above, improve its base stats and/or make head slam deal heavy damage to knocked down targets

[strong crypt]

im saying patchy is balanced. and also every dinosaur have to use terrain VS omni not just patchy. now every dinousaur that has to escape a carno wants to use terrain or rocks if they can jump. does this mean every dinousaur that has to do this is in a bad spot? i think not. also carno is a specialized small game hunter i mean if u wanna beat it by not using rocks ofc u gonna have to outskill it.
Dilo this might not seem like it but it is actually 200kg heavier and is really strong atm and also capped at a group limit of 4 same as cerato and carno which would indicate that devs might think its ability togehter with other dilos is likely as strong as 4 carnos or ceratos, but still with a bit of skill this matchup is not impossible and u dont require mad skill for it you just have to know it and then if the dilo is skilled or not actually doesnt matter that much as long as you know how to play it.

Honestly the biggest problem i can tell so far is that noone plays it for various reasons

[steep gazelle]

Omni just needs to jump on the pachy and use the damage pounce

[strong crypt]

1 Fix all bugs- since these are mostly desync issues and hitboxses its far far away but we can probably all agree on this
2 rebalance fractures- this would heavily nerf patchy as far as i can tell. would make the carno matchup even worse to survive not to mention and also kill you in many instances that you go for a leg break
3 remove self stunts- now this one is a super hard buff im not sure if i want this cus as is now patchy is high risk high reward on its headbutt which means u gotta be sure when u throw it now change this and we are gonna have to make headbutt way less effective in some ways.
4 increase speed to 43kph - honestly see no problem with this might feel great for patchy players

[steep gazelle]

Not to mention that those 3 omnis were really horrible xd

[strong crypt]

im pretty sure he jumped on me and did dmg pounce why didnt he win?

im also activly moving unpredictably so they cannot pounce easy but thats another thing u can see me turning at many points just as he is about to pounce me

[steep gazelle]

He didn't use the damage pounce, he was alternating between damage and bleed

You would have died to the first omni that landed the pounce on you if he just pressed the damage pounce

[strong crypt]

honesly muen lets hop on a server right now

and you prove to me u killing me with 1 pounce before i can get u off

now there is currently a bug on omniraptor where it is not able to be hit off from certain terrain whilst on the back but i mean that is a bug will probbably be patched real soon

like i see this bogus claims that 1 pounce will kill me and theres nothing i can do against it and raptor will get 100-0 you but this has litrally not happend to me not even once whilst playing this

[strong crypt]

i will tell you the logic behind it but if you cannot understand that we need to hop on a server so you can actually see it happening.

1. Bucking has a chance to knock them off which will make a 100-0 pounce highly unlikely
2. i can use trees to get you off me which will make 100-0 pounce highly unlikely

[strong crypt]

also original argument is that patchy dies to first thing it sees and omnis just insta kill you with pounce but these situations keep happening to me on survival servers so im betting they just dont know how to play patchy. now if you want me to go fight people who can clearly play Omniraptor on a fight server i can do that aswell

But Rapdex i think we can agree on that it does need some change to make it more played. i think a big part of it not being played might be spawns and migrations being in the north

another one also the Feels clunky part this is true.
and bugs offcourse like u hit something on your screen and then u die cus u missed it actually

[hasty coyote]

How would the main changes I suggested make the carno matchup worse? You get stuns on fracture (aka your first hit is free and up to 2 subsequent hits are free), and body fracture is actually useful. Only trade off is that you can’t bully a crippled carno (who you can already escape from) and head fracture is slightly worse (which won’t matter as much since you get the hit for free and probably a body hit for free as well). If you want to see the specifics I’d like for a fracture rebalance I can share them, but the overall goal should be to make running from a fractured target easier, but just bullying them harder. Also the rebalance should keep most of the power, just redistribute it so the fractures are more equal (rather than have leg be the make or break while body fracture is niche)

The no stun on hit would just make the Dino less clunky. With the fact that pachy has an active hitbox during the recovery, you are practically already seeing how strong a pachy would be with no self stun (especially since it saved you from a pounce in that video you like to use). This with leg fracture no longer preventing alt attacks means that you can’t bully easily even with the buff. And against targets like Omnis it would only keep you equal with them, you can’t punish if they miss, they can’t punish if you miss. Plus it allows you to win the face tank against dilos.

[strong crypt]

well leg fractures not disabling alt attacks is a hughe nerf

[hasty coyote]

He was already body fractured, so he had only a third of the stam to actually kill you. Plus it looked like he kept spamming lmb rather than holding it.

[strong crypt]

this body needs an immediate effect im not really sure about, but as it is now it heavily increases ur stamina drain

also i heard that jumping with body fracture dmg you is this true?

[hasty coyote]

And a reasonable one, since there is not a single case where you need to engage a leg fractured target

[hasty coyote]

I think that used to be a thing but it was removed

[hasty coyote]

The immediate effect I would personally want is just like a running turn rate reduction. So standing your ground still works, but trying to chase a pachy will make things difficult.

[mint star]

@edgy pine the allosaurus ingame is completely outdated and nowhere near its final stats, it uses old carno’s stats and austro does too i think

[strong crypt]

i mean tbh rapdex a change to body fracture doesnt sound to bad because RN it feels like the fight is over before they lose all stam anyways

[edgy pine]

Very good news

[hasty coyote]

That’s kinda the issue, even with a 3x drain, it still takes almost a full minute for most Dinos to lose all their stam. And with pachy’s low hp, it doesn’t take that long to kill. Only matchup it really matters is Omni and that’s because pounce nukes its own stam.

[strong crypt]

i think the bugs aswell are Fracture inconsistency even tho hitting the right spots and desync

like fracture inconsistency i think is very curable

[hasty coyote]

Seeing as how it’s been an issue since release, I’m not so sure lol

[strong crypt]

:S

might have to do with how every dinosaurs hitbox is made and then its a big job for just 1 dinosaur

[hasty coyote]

The hitboxes are already mostly set up reguardless, since you take more/less damage based on the part hit. So it would make sense to me that they use the same hitboxes with fractures (which may be why the bugs exist lol)

Plus pachy won’t be the only fracture dino (which is partially also why I think leg fracture needs a nerf, those dinos are gonna be much slower and combat focused)

[strong crypt]

also i can start making clips after clips after clips of me doing this and you will still be able to say if they just did this they wouldve won or those omnis were so bad. its called backseat gaming, and being aftersmart which is very easy to do after an event

[hasty coyote]

You’re giving us clips to analyze, so of course we are gonna analyze them lol

[strong crypt]

ofc

just that the argument before was that you die to the first thing that finds you and patchy being weaker than omni however not 1 time not 2 times but 3 times in a row when facing 3+ raptors ive managed to kill all 3 of them two times and escape after killing 2 one time. now these are not randomly selected events for me they happend in sequence now if i were to uploud them you would probably say they are bad to, im just stating that im playing on same difficulty as you and that means if you think they are bad you shouldnt have trouble beating them and should not be complaining about patchy being weak

.
now that video is not made to prove patchy being so much stronger(which i dont think it is) but rather to prove that you can survive with it. Now keep in mind if i was afraid of them lets say everyone on the server was a pro player. i couldve just avoided them aswell 🙂

[steep gazelle]

@edgy pine Allo is not in any hordtest

The version that is available on some unofficial servers are just incomplete files that are using Carno status for testing

[strong crypt]

if you wanted real survival odds playing patchy solo isnt correct imagine having 3 of these

[edgy pine]

Thats what I meant.

[steep gazelle]

Omni won't be slower than Allo, don't worry

Allo speed will be between 35-40km/h

[dusky surge]

You can’t say that for sure

[steep gazelle]

Above this will affect the balance

And I hope the devs still expect something balanced in the game

[maiden temple]

Sounds like a good estimate tbh, these are reaching teno/cera speeds

So it's still fast but not fast enough to be a problem if you want to get away

It would be insane if it's any faster

Unless I smell a teno buff then make it speedy

[barren plank]

Trike ground attack hit box needs to be fixed for sure, just got killed at his tail

while he was stuck in attack animation

[strong crypt]

This has happend to me aswell

[true ginkgo]

People casually hacking non-functional assets into their servers and being 100% convinced that this is the final balance for them....

[strong crypt]

this lowkey true. but you do get a look at their previous thoughts for the dinosaurs

i mean for one like since we dont know how unfinished they are allo Movement speed can be just set to what it is because they simply havent gotten to adjusting it yet and its just a random number

[true ginkgo]

I can see the arguement for rex maybe providing a very rough idea of a few of its stats

but allo is years away.

[dusky surge]

Years away, I don’t think so, but it isn’t gonna be next update that’s for sure

[true ginkgo]

i suspect 2026 personally

[dusky surge]

Nah

[thorn mountain]

december 2025 im betting

[elfin night]

Can’t be that far when its ability is just a copy paste of Omni’s ability

Not an expert in game development but I don’t see why it wouldn’t be impossible to just slap that thing with different animation sets and then just work on the sounds and balancing. There you go. Finished playable.

And then rex pretty much is finished from what we keep hearing

Hopefully more than trike when it released…

[strong crypt]

for all we know the copy paste is not at all how its supposed to be and just a test look

and something very unfinished they just threw on there for testing purposes

[elfin night]

Damn

Well then, time to wait for the slopsaurus

[deft copper]

Do you still have that video of dryo being pinned by omni with a weird hitbox?

[soft mantle]

@elfin night i would like to hear any ideas of buffs to stego

[elfin night]

Mentioned them in the past

[dusky surge]

I love how I saw that suggestion and instantly knew it was gonna get slammed

Because stego buff bad

[elfin night]

holyy

double clown reaction even 💔

[soft mantle]

where?

[elfin night]

latest stego balance feedback, but anything to make it not die on sight to rex works really

[soft mantle]

sure

but rex is still not out how do u know it will die on sight?

can't stego stun it before it stuns the stego?

i honestly think people don't disagree with buffing stego matchup vs rex, but the matchup still doesn't exist so maybe they jump ahead to downvote cuz of that

it's stupid buffing smthing ahead of time, look at powerswing, was the dumbest idea ever to put it in with the actual roster, and even dondi admitted it

so in most people mind, them creating and molding powerswing to give stego a fighting chance vs rex which was the real motive it was put out ahead of time, is already perfectly balanced for it since the devs are the only ones who can know how that matchup really goes

@elfin night @dusky surge but u guys might have inside knowledge we don't have

[dusky surge]

i mean

we can see how rex currently handles stego (extremely easily)

[dusky surge]

lol no

[thorn mountain]

no

[vale brook]

jajajajajajaa

[stark ether]

I mean, stego can just escape both Rex and Trike, unless they ambush it

[vale brook]

stego is slower than rex

there is no escape there

[dusky surge]

it cant

[stark ether]

Better stam though, you just need to see it coming soon enough

[dusky surge]

rex doesn't need to ambush, it easily catches stego with a faster sprint, trot and a murdersprint

[dusky surge]

not even that will save you

if the rex maintains pace, it will just trot you down

[thorn mountain]

rex can walk down

[dusky surge]

in a sprint, ambush or endurance chase, rex wins it all

[soft mantle]

powersing doesn't stun rex or trike?

[thorn mountain]

no lol

[dusky surge]

not that i've seen. no

[soft mantle]

wtf

[dusky surge]

its a good way to waste all your stam and die faster tho

so thats cool

the bias people have against stego is crazy

they'll cry a river about raptor being slightly slower than dilo (despite raptor being more agile, having better stam, having a jump, a faster swim, etc)

stego has nothing. it is literal rex food

[soft mantle]

ok i'm with u guys then, i would only suggest giving it the stun effect that does against big targets, not the knockdown it does against smaller ones

so that u know i'm currently an enjoyer of carnivores and my bias goes to raptors all around the world cuz i have experience with it, but i know bs, disrupts the balance, and we all need carnis and herbis to be balanced cuz if 1 side is clearly weaker/broken both sides don't have fun in fights/matchups

[unreal crystal]

Just make stego 4.5 T , faster than Rex and Trike, bit more stam and boom fixed the issue

Hope devs do this change asap the same way they adjusted carnos weight in the past

[dusky surge]

how does that fix it?

[strong crypt]

True

[kindred shale]

I think Kentro should fill that role and not stego. Stego should be able to stand its ground. Why not increase its weight and longer growth time like trike?

[viscid mica]

That’s kentros whole neiche lol

The up sized porcupine

Stego is fine were it is

[strong crypt]

wait stego ive heard is gonna be faster than rex unless maybe ambush or smth

[viscid mica]

In fact depending on how Rex is stego might even see a buff

[unreal crystal]

Haven't tried the "new rex" since it's pretty much fake news... we have to wait and see what the real rex stats are when released but since everyone concern seems to be that stego won't be able to stand his ground against rex why don't we make it so stego doesn't have to do that. Stego is no apex so it would make sense to be faster than rex imo

[viscid mica]

No….

[dusky surge]

you could also make stego more of an apex alternatively too, and that would be more befitting of its playstyle and seperate it further from kentro

[viscid mica]

Ya but a faster stego has other issues on the rest of the roaster due to its cannon of a tail

And they can’t really change its tail damage without making it trash in other ways

It’d be better to up stegos capacity to apex levels rather than reduce

[strong crypt]

your gonna have to herd with it lol

[kindred shale]

Stego doesn't need to be apex to be able to defend against one. It is very slow and it has the weapon to fight one.

[viscid mica]

Terrible mentality

[strong crypt]

wow somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed 😠

[viscid mica]

If you can’t solo grow something even if it’s difficult alone than it is unplayable by my standard

Everything must be able to do one of 2 fight or flight

[dusky surge]

oh so it's screwed lol

[viscid mica]

So long as one option is available I’ll be happy

[unreal crystal]

Yes but then you have the" let's just buff everything else so they can fight rex" argument. Carno weight has been adjusted in the past I think it's very reasonable they do the same with stego so he can fit his niche

[dusky surge]

herd animals dont work, their very concept is inherently flawed

can't survive solo, needs a herd
people can't survive solo as that animal so they play something else
no one is playing the animal
those who do can never find a herd because others have moved on
the entire animal dies

like, why play a stego when a trike is equally capable of forming a herd as a stego is, but also is capable solo

[viscid mica]

It’d be 1 thing

[kindred shale]

What's stopping them from increasing stegos size and weight like other dinos in the past? Also people won't mind longer growth times to compensate for the buff so it can fend for itself being slow and all.

[strong crypt]

thats one of their niches i mean isnt their pack limit way higher than it should be for how strong it is

[viscid mica]

1 thing that’s whole being is meant to be a glass cannon

[viscid mica]

All herbivore group limits are insane but it’s kinda a need to keep people playing herbi because it’s less enjoyable than carni

[dusky surge]

galli is also a herd animal but its actually 100% capable solo

[viscid mica]

Infact it’s rather fun solo

So long as you avoid omnis

[dusky surge]

which galli is entirely capable of doing with its speed

[strong crypt]

i hear again and again that the lone herb is weak prey and this is one of those niches that everyone seems okay with in other cases

[dusky surge]

who's saying that?

[viscid mica]

On god

I hate people who whine about dying to omni as galli when the only reason your dying to em is cuz YOU got close

[dusky surge]

it's literally only applicable to stego and pachy, not every herbivore (and stego only because of rex)

[viscid mica]

Don’t listen to the skill issued

While they are right they are also wrong

For example

[strong crypt]

not patchy argument again

[viscid mica]

Sure a solo dibble is potentially easy prey for cera or omni groups

[strong crypt]

its one of the easiest dinosaurs to grow u can beat dilo and omni 1on1 and carno kills it ofc

[viscid mica]

But same time they could theoretically defend themselves

[viscid mica]

Pachy? I mean if you ignore that omni can practically front pounce you

[strong crypt]

well headbutt it

[viscid mica]

Honesty you just gotta get lucky and have your first ram get a bone break reg on omni and dilo just pray they try and face tank

[viscid mica]

It’s super easy to dodge

[strong crypt]

im pretty sure u can knock it down then apply bonebreak if your good with it

its not easy to dodge if he tries to front pounce you

[viscid mica]

Yes but you gotta hit it

[viscid mica]

Any omni with half a brain cell will bait out the first charge

But than again

Most people don’t have half a brain cell to spare

[strong crypt]

also ur acting like everyone comes across proraptor10001 in survival most of them are not pros and u can use rocks trees and other terrain

[strong crypt]

exactly

[viscid mica]

No absolutely

On average thou most solo omnis are more than capable of beating a solo pachy

Pachy do be needing a wee buff

[strong crypt]

i would say change

and raptor need some bugfixses

honestly im not fond of omniraptor pinning everything smaller than it like in a 1v1 vs for example galli

[viscid mica]

Everything needs some minor bug fixes

[dusky surge]

id argue more than wee lol

[dusky surge]

galli's bigger than raptor actually lol

[viscid mica]

I mean a smol speed up to not be life or death every time a cera appears, no self stun and some changes to fracture damage cuz it’s the most inconsistent thing known to mankind

So ya a wee more than a wee

[viscid mica]

Fun fact galli absolutely destroys omni if omni can’t front pounce

I’ve tested the fight against a buddy with multiple different rules stipulations and in every one that excluded throwing out pounces from the front galli absolutely cooks omni

[strong crypt]

wouldnt suprise me since it has its kick. im just against 1shots with little counterplay. i dont like herra mechanic aswell as i dont like deino mechanic

[viscid mica]

Your counter play is not going within pouncing distance

[strong crypt]

as galli yes

[viscid mica]

Deino you can wait out to check and Herrera counter is gamers greatest weakness

Looking up

[strong crypt]

i know how to counter all this its just according to me unfunn mechanics

[viscid mica]

Hypsi can now climb, troodon is basically the same speed and is practically invisible in the new grass, pt can fly, dryo will eventually be able to burrow plus it has dodge (not to say it shouldn’t be faster it’s unreasonably slow) beipi can swim galli is faster by a lot

Herrera can climb

[strong crypt]

imagine herra being more bleed related with its pounce and then you would have to keep them standing or track them after they ran away

[viscid mica]

Omni is the true terror of tiny tiers and I believe it’s completely fine like that

In the same way I believe this should be a mechanic for bary

Judo champ since 200mil B.C ong XD

[soft mantle]

there are some dinos that should be able to deal damage back to raptor when pounced from the front just like troodon and other raptors, but gally would not be one of them

[strong crypt]

also saying patchy Headbutt is easily dodged is probably due to pachies just throwing it out like nothing

its like when u see raptors just spam missing pounce

just more easy to punish

[viscid mica]

I mean considering that your speed of turn is reduced when holding it and omni is one of if not the most agile creature in the game

Land creature….

[strong crypt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAwRwGFn-Z0 also was able to hit leg fractures consistently on knockdown in about 90% of the time

and since he is running around me and i can stant still his speed is not enough against my turn rate

@viscid mica

[viscid mica]

You seem to not understand I’m not saying it’s not possible

Simply that the required skill from pachy is far greater than omni to win under equal conditions

[amber wharf]

yea, naw. i play pachy a ton. they're dodge IS easily dodged. 😭 because it launches you, it usually gives your attacker plenty of time to get out of the way because they are anticipating it w/ the wind up, then can just come in behind you and score 2-3 free bites

Omnis I don't have too much trouble with on pachy because most I run into play reckless and dumb - but cerato/carno can anticipate that ram from a mile away and dodge it lol.

[strong crypt]

cerato you can never fight tbh because even with legbreak it can use charge bite

and carno is litrally meant to kill you idk what to say about that one

[amber wharf]

true but if cerato has body fracture, pachy CAN out run it (thank god)

[amber wharf]

rex is meant to kill everything yet people are complaining about that. 😂 pachy's survivalibility right now is abysmal.

[strong crypt]

also i just tested this so called 1 pounce and your dead theory and not 1 time out of 20 pounces was i 100-0 when using bucking to get him off

[amber wharf]

the missed ram stun is way too much of a cripple for them

[strong crypt]

honestly chomp im down to play patchy sometime xD

[strong crypt]

diddnt matter if i was walking or standing still i didnt get killed 1 time out of 20 pounces so even tho people say its RNG id say chance is pretty low. the lowest i got out of all was 30% hp

[amber wharf]

I have 2 fg on some server, in my notes which servers lol. I don't think I have any on my alt (growing a carno on my alt, wanting to nest at some point so the giant carno pack and spank some ceratos 🙏 )

[amber wharf]

Was the omni doing his dmg bites? And was he HOLDING left click or spam clicking?

[strong crypt]

yes i told him just do damage pounce Hold LMB

and i was also losing hp. most of the time i ended with 60% hp left

some cases 30% hp however combine this with the use of trees

[amber wharf]

ask him to spam click. omni loses way less stam while spam clicking left mb

like a TON of stam if it spams rather than holding

[strong crypt]

they do but then they dont do dmg

[amber wharf]

they should? wdym

[strong crypt]

well the concern is that 1 dmg pounce will kill me now if they tap LMB to drain stam i can stand still and buck and i wont lose stam

also you do not deal damage whilst spamming

unless if they changed that this patch which i dont belive they did

[amber wharf]

it was like that before patch im pre sure. could u test it w/ your friend?

[strong crypt]

was not a friend was a random we can test it tho if u want?

[amber wharf]

im growing this stinky carno and need to find ai 😭

my partially deaf ahh was not built for carni life. had to crank my sound ALL the way up to hear ai

[unreal crystal]

Pachy literally eats omnis/dilos for lunch, can run away from ceras and ability to break carno leg with 1 hit

Also not to mention pachy alt attack stops carno ram

I mean when I hear ppl asking for pachy buff I'm like bruhh xd

Ah you also get to grow in sanctuary till about 50% xd

[vale brook]

it takes two juvie omnis to pin pachy,
it is completely nullified by cerato (with the presence of speed mutations), and carno can just tank the hits because pachy CAN NOT hit something without stunning itself lol

"oh no, my leg is broken!" the carno says as it gets rewarded for being bonked with a free body shot on the pachy

[maiden temple]

Raptor destroys a pachy with no contest unless you jumped it as a pachy and got a quick bone break first. It's so easy to avoid all of pachy attacks and it's severely punished for missing even once. Carno doesn't need to ram it, just facetank and bite

[vale brook]

pachy was already in a rough state but the additions of mutations genuinely shot it in the head

[maiden temple]

Pachy is in a very bad place and it's undeniable

[vale brook]

not ONLY do combat mutations as a whole break the already delicate speed balancing in game, but pachy quite literally is one of 3 animals to have a species specific mutation AGAINST it

the other two (troodon/omni) have a mutation that somewhat counters them but even THEN its just based on more RNG, so its not even a sure-fire way of countering them

[maiden temple]

I wish it was easier to balance without making bone break weaker to accommodate it

I like bb being this life threatening/gameplay altering

[viscid mica]

Ya but if the skill is equal and they aren’t both noobs omni and dilo on average will win

Carno on the other hand

[unreal crystal]

I mean if omni lands a lucky pounce in an open field that's pachys fault but as a pachy you have to use terrain to your advantage and map is literally full of trees rocks bushes and literally makes omni pounce useless. Even in open field Pachy only needs 2 brain cells to always face omni and not get pounced.... if pachy is against 2 omni is open field yes that's gg but over pachy has the upper hand

[viscid mica]

I disagree

It’s a lot easier for omnis to win the engagement than for pachy while yes pachy only need one good hit omni only needs one good pounce

[unreal crystal]

Yes but even a "good pounce" means nothing if you play pachy as it's supposed to be played... I mean yeah NL rock is cool and all but...

[tropic horizon]

You can pretty easily get pounced regardless, it’s not that hard. And it’s not that hard to land a good pounce either. Meanwhile pachy has to land an extremely telegraphed attack with lots of endlag.

[viscid mica]

Wdym supposed to be played?

[unreal crystal]

Closer to trees and definitely not in open field

[tropic horizon]

Pachy has to park it’s ass by a rock or obstacle if it wants to survive against a good Omni

[tropic horizon]

I don’t think you should pretty much die 9 times out of 10 if you’re in the open vs 1 Omni

[vale brook]

this would be true if omni couldnt just move to your back and be immune from most of those things lol

[unreal crystal]

I 100% get it ,self stun is frustrating and might not seem fair but in the same time fracture abilty is super strong and they way it currently works on pachy is literally broken.... I mean few days ago I got skull fracture on my fg carno from literally a tail hit
Maybe a way to make pachy better would be to yes decrease self stun duration but also decrease fracture % and I guess fix the hitbox because it currently doesn't make any sense

[unreal crystal]

I see your point but if we have to be honest most omnis are cooked in a fight against pachy if they can't use pounce

[steep gazelle]

Omni just needs to hit the pounce and climb to the back and he won't get knocked into the trees

[vale brook]

frankly the self stun should be removed as a whole

theres no reason you should get punished for properly using your only ability against threats

thats like if herrera stunned itself on every fall onto an animal

oh wait, it did that and the community hated it

[tropic horizon]

There’s other buff suggestions I’ve seen, like to give its downward slam a damage buff on knocked over targets so it has a reason to use it, or the stun on fracture system, there’s many ways you could go about it.

[unreal crystal]

What about the ability to knock down a 700kg dilo? Do you think pachy should be able to do that without selfstun?

[steep gazelle]

I agree. Even though bone breaking is extremely strong, this is practically Pachy only weapon.

[steep gazelle]

Just don't get close to Pachy if you don't have the confidence to fight him, he's a brawler after all

[vale brook]

yes

you get punished for being hit by the pachy

just as pachy gets punished by almost instant stage 3 application from a bite

[unreal crystal]

😅

[viscid mica]

That’s just counter omni not even pachy specific ya goob

[unreal crystal]

You literally have to go out of your way to be in open field the map has an overwhelming amount of trees, rocks bushes that makes pounce ability useless

[viscid mica]

I mean

Every hotspot is open…

[unreal crystal]

Might not be pachy "specific" but if 90% of the map is full trees bushes etc you wont have a hard time to stay away from open field which are raptors and carnos hunting grounds

[amber wharf]

carnos are a myth

[thorn mountain]

it might be 60-40 split with jungle and plains

[elfin night]

Why are you even punishing pachy for not wanting to die?

And of course there couldn’t be a pachy discussion without “just hide from everything bro” even though Pachy is supposed to be fighting

[strong crypt]

honestly you seeem to be the only one understanding this

[strong crypt]

also this everyhotspot is open like u can litrally see thee liinks i post of me being in hotspots fighting people using terrain

and if you are in an open field and dont see raptors coming and get pounced i mean!?!?!?!?
also if only 1 raptor u can just buck him off i tried doing this 20 times in a row and not once did he 100-0 me

with dmg pounce

and also this it takes so much more skill for patchy than raptor. this is unbelivibly false if both players are good an omni would have to be a god in order to beat a patchy in a 1v1 that is using terrain

[strong crypt]

honestly you dont seem to grasp the idea of patchy headbutt being a high risk high reward tool

also the dilo cant really get behind you because of its turn rate and speed it would have to run in a way that would risk it getting hit

now obiviously this dilo is to small to stand a chance but same rules apply for hitting headbutts

[dusky surge]

i understand that, its just not high reward

[strong crypt]

it really is

[dusky surge]

not really?

[strong crypt]

i making another video showing me hitting 1 time and they dead because of combo into legbreak

ill link this again aswellhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAwRwGFn-Z0

[dusky surge]

poor damage, a stunlock that allows the opponent a free hit, no follow up potential on knockdowns like dibbles or trikes have, and the fractures aren't that valuable outside of the elusive leg fracture

when we compare to low risk high reward moves like cerato charge bite, there's no contest

[strong crypt]

poor dmg its 125 damage guarranteing another 125 because they are knockdown thats 250 damage also now their leg is broken and u can avoid them or just bash them to death

[timber tusk]

To correct my time, it takes just shy of 4min for Pteranodon to regen a full stamina bar. By comparison, flying from highlands to the volcano takes less than 3min. Shows that Ptera is still the fastest, but it’d feel a lot better if it took just 2min or even 1min to regen, so you could spend more time actually hunting and playing the game.

[strong crypt]

these combos u see are 200 dmg thats half omni hp almost and he leg broke so he is litrally dead with no counterplay if i want to

after hitting 1 headbutt

[dusky surge]

honestly, 200 damage is really poor given the circumstance

[strong crypt]

well it kinda isnt since he is dead now with now counterplay there fore if i hit 1 headbutt he is litrally dead if i miss it i get pounced

thats high risk high reward

[dusky surge]

cant a dibble or trike do that exact same thing with not even half the risk and twice the reward, despite also being tankier by every metric and having sparring lol

pachy has heavily fallen behind the balance curve

[strong crypt]

sure but i already think dibble is op ah hell and also they are like 3 times and 8 times growth time

[dusky surge]

its trapped in the past while newer animals far outscale its very niche far more effectively

all pachy has to its name is the fracture system

[strong crypt]

also a dibble and trike are 1v1 machines what ive heard so far. and compared to the rest of the roster execpt for dibble cerato tenon its doing pretty well so otherwise u buff patchy buff raptor buff carno and some other playables or you nerf these 3 cerato dibble tenon

honestly idc how its done :S

but i do think herbis being strong is what keeps them played

[keen plover]

Pachy is getting changes regardless. So eh, doesn't really matter what our thoughts are on current pachy

[strong crypt]

well then lets skip this convo lol

[dusky surge]

and pachy is designed in a similar way, except its not great at 1v1s lol

its literally a ceratopsian design but heavily outdated

also nerfing dibble and teno still makes no sense to me

just because dibble is a pachy but actually designed well doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed, it already has its weaknesses

and teno is versatile, that is the objective point of a tenonto

[strong crypt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i0VVWs2tJI also this is so often the case when VS people in survival since they often find eachother and even if they play togheter they are not always coardinated

honestly diablo having almost no punish timer on its really high dmg combo is criminal

[elfin night]

It has nothing that current ceratopsians do other than frontal knockdown 🥀

Once you’re fractured you’re kinda cooked depending on who you are even if it’s not leg fracture

[strong crypt]

valient im glad u said this

[elfin night]

I play pachy bruh

Been playing it for a long time

[strong crypt]

and i think why should we make it broken just because dibble is

[elfin night]

Except that dibble isn’t broken

[strong crypt]

first time we agree xD

[elfin night]

And pachy is just clunky to use and with several abysmal matchups

Pachy is yet another outdated playable in need of changes

[strong crypt]

only abyssmal one u have to fight according to me is carno

[elfin night]

Similar to stego (although that one is gonna have it far worse), deino (lol) and ptera (luckily getting rework soon)

[elfin night]

Carno, competent omnis, ceras if you don’t lock in mutations (although this is also a mutation issue) and if you get bitten by a dilo even if they have body fracture you’re cooked

And juvi/sub rex is gonna be hell for pachy

Or elder Omni for that matter

[strong crypt]

ur faster thann cera its stronger than omni

if you get bitten by dilo :S

[strong crypt]

this is me fighting 3 of them alone in survival

[elfin night]

Marginally stronger than Omni unless you get pounced

And cera with photo outruns base pachy lol

[strong crypt]

and it keeps happening so dont tell me its not possible

[elfin night]

Those dilos were such trash they should quit the game lmao 😭

[cosmic pelican]

Sub teno and maia too.
Sub teno is almost 4kmh faster than pachy while being almost twice the size and killing it in 3 kicks.

And I dont think I need to explain maia, pachy literally damages itself if it tries to do anything against it lol

[elfin night]

Got chances to bite you and also luckily you got the ambush advantage

Now try fighting two fg dilos at a time and see how fun it is to be locked in place for using your ability

[strong crypt]

its survival lmao also u keep saying luckily u get ambush u know how many of my friends ´died to give me it xD

6 of them

[dusky surge]

It’s survival, so pachy should be better at it

[elfin night]

^

[strong crypt]

its not bad u are bad

[elfin night]

6 pachies died?

[strong crypt]

yes to 3 dilos

[elfin night]

Saying that to me?

[strong crypt]

and i killed all 3 of them alone then u call them trash

[elfin night]

Not very helpful to prove Pachy is good, right?

[cosmic pelican]

💀

[elfin night]

Didn’t call you trash. I only said the dilos were

Your ambush was good but this is also one by one

[cosmic pelican]

Genuinely how

[dusky surge]

It’s so weird that I’m capable on every other animal but suddenly become bad when I play pachy

How odd that pachy specifically makes me worse. Could it be that pachy, perhaps, had underlying issues that somehow hindered my performance in a way that notably reduces my chance of survival?

[elfin night]

Try doing 2 fg dilos at a time now

The moment you ram one, the other tears you apart. So good and efficient omg

And then pachy gets obliterated by carno unless leg fracture since no stun

[strong crypt]

yeah well i can post stuff again and again and again and again and again of me killing people on survival and btw these events are not random its happening accordingly and you will say obvisouly they are trash. ITS SURVIVAL most people are

[elfin night]

It needs to get hit two times per ram if the carno times it lol

[dusky surge]

The “ur bad” argument only works if I suck at every dino, which no, it’s only an issue with pachy

[elfin night]

pachy is good

6 pachies died to 3 dilos

😬

[strong crypt]

i even go on PVP servers fighting dilos and omnis and id say ive faced dilo to little on there to say definitivly that it wins but im pretty sure of it.
omni tbh never wins

[strong crypt]

yes the same dilos u called trash btw

[elfin night]

Omni 1v1 in a flat area where you see one another is a pachy win more often than not, yes

[elfin night]

Mhm

So I think it would be a blend of your randoms being terrible and also them being demanded to pull much more weight by playing pachy

[strong crypt]

this is your problem since u never have to be in a flat area with no rocks or trees

also this is still untrue

[elfin night]

In a PvP server you are

[strong crypt]

i dont even use trees in 1v1s on pvp servers

[elfin night]

Was talking about that mostly. Ofc omni never wins in that

You don’t need to in a pachy vs omni 1v1 in a dedicated server

Problem is 2+ omnis

Which is so funny that you showed that video with atrocious raptors

And you almost died using your ability 2 times

You showed that in your video, as well as an Omni breaking its leg

[elfin night]

Pachy is so good that using its ability even aiming down and without charging can kill you

[strong crypt]

yeah i fought three of them multiple times and record it and u say yeah they are trash however ive not once came across a compitent raptor pack in many hours of playing patchy now which means either u are the unluckiest person on earth whilst playing patchy or you are simply not playing it right

[elfin night]

Don’t even make it smoother to use pls

[strong crypt]

well lets say we remove penalty for headbutt miss. then its utterly broken

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-versus-vs-alien-monster-vs-alien-gif-16037253809360562033

[strong crypt]

what will happend then they will have to nerf headbutt

this will make the playable weaker if u are good on it and better if u are bad

[elfin night]

Deino: misses lunge, loses a bit of stam, nothing happens

Pachy: misses ram on a slope, loses a bit of stam and breaks its leg or dies

Apparently making it not die when missing its ability is utterly broken

[strong crypt]

now this will limit your potential with the dinosaur. i think this is a horrible thing and very unfunn

[strong crypt]

wanna see what happends when it does miss it vs for example a rex?

[elfin night]

deino? Why would you try to grab one anyway?

[edgy moon]

To be fair, deino gets stunned when it lands a lunge on something too big to grab (though this is irrelevant in practice)

[strong crypt]

well its just stupid yes the point here is u cannot say that deino is not punished for missing a grab vs something twice or or 4 times as small as it

how punished is trike for missing an attack vs troodon?

omni and patchy are about same weight

[strong crypt]

there for if u try to grab fg deino because u dont know if he is big enough to grab in water or small enough then u get CCed and u well be bitten for free

[edgy moon]

what?

[strong crypt]

if u fight anoither deinosuchus

[elfin night]

What are you even saying? This is not a discussion about weight, I was saying that pachy is the only one where hitting the air with an ability can kill you no matter what you do. At least omni and troo can aim or can pounce whenever they like instead of capping their stance at 3 seconds

Deino is punished for doing something that isn't meant to be doing with the grab and it's so easy to avoid. Just like omni not pouncing someone's face or stego getting stunned for power swinging a rock

You almost died twice in an attempt to show how "good" pachy is against clueless players that only needed to press a button. You just gambled there

and it's sad that you are convinced pachy needs no changes

[edgy moon]

you never use lunge when fighting other deinos unless they're significantly smaller, or you're using it for the speed boost, though

[elfin night]

^

[strong crypt]

now if you were to remove punish for headbutt this would mean raptor cant punish you and u can just spam headbutt, then they would have to nerf headbutt to the point where the two playables of equal size is as strong as the other. now that means u not having a high risk high reward ability.

Not having a high risk high reward ability vs 2 omnis i can see that being even harder than it is now and this is why i dont want it buffed maybe rather bugfixes hitbox fixses and fracture changes

[elfin night]

they can punish you because there's still a small cooldown and you waste stamina ramming

also, do you think pachy should be stunned when hitting a ram?

[strong crypt]

well if it keeps it ability being strong yes

[elfin night]

self stun is so good and healthy for pachy that it will kill you in a 2v1 against competent players

[strong crypt]

now what you want is hey buff patchy so omni cant win and then im happy

[elfin night]

so it cannot win a 2v1 anymore and it must get hit by carnos just for one body fracture

[elfin night]

that was a rather unassuming conjecture of what I am saying

[strong crypt]

but why is it supposed to win 2v1?

in what world do you think that is balance for a playable of equal size and equal growth time( its faster growth time with mushroms

[elfin night]

there is a middle ground between being at the mercy of 2 fg dilos , good omnis or carnos

And just breezing through them which is probably what you are imagining

I want pachy to have the tools to properly brawl with things and deal with threats like carno or cera without killing them but still standing a decent chance to land at least one fracture without ending up in yellow after one headbutt

[elfin night]

their roles also matter and you have been told this repeatedly

pachy is meant to be a good solo brawler and it isn't that right now when all it can do is bully solo omnis or dilos after getting an ambush

just like cera shouldn't be an equal fight vs carno in the slightest

and teno should be putting up with 2 carnos or not be helpless against 2 ceras

[strong crypt]

It is a good solo brawler its not good when odds are heavily against it which is the case for every dinosaur in the game

i mean are u gonna complain when 2 t-rex wins vs 1 trike because its supposed to be a good solo brawler

kinda same circumstance since its twice its weight almost

[elfin night]

I would honestly prefer trike having the upper hand there

[keen plover]

Tbf trike has a lot of damage so it can quickly nuke stuff

[elfin night]

since it cannot choose to engage

pachy also cannot really choose to engage with dilos or omnis unless they get ambushed, same goes

if dilos think they can't win, they can retreat freely and there's nothing pachy can do

so dunno what's wrong with pachy not dying in the moment it throws a ram

[strong crypt]

and here is the problem you are not looking for balance u are looking for some of the playables to be strong solo playables whilst the other will not be good solo playables, and u are talking aobut spiecies that are not solo playables

[elfin night]

weight is largely irrelevant here. It's not a linear metric where twice the mass of something should be twice as strong. That's absurd and the reason why two troodons can dunk on a dilo effortlessly

design is what takes priority

[strong crypt]

not twice as strong since u have niches

im fine with patchy being able to beat 2 omnis with buffs if u make it 2 times or more than its current growth time same with trike if u want the rex sitation

[elfin night]

Define strong

I want all of them to be viable and also have their own roles, and pachies role demands it being far more proficient in direct solo combat than omni or dilo

[elfin night]

that's so mega cringe bro

TWICE its growth???

[strong crypt]

no it does not if a raptor is unpatient he is just dead same for dilo

[elfin night]

Can you acknowledge the reality of niches that you just mentioned?

[elfin night]

and if not, pachy is dead

[strong crypt]

well all i see is you wanting certain dinosaurs to just be stronger without any consequenses and thats not balancing thats u liking certain dinosaurs

[elfin night]

if they don't walk into your rams, you die

[elfin night]

it has consequences, which are visible in their stat pool

Like how pachy is is so much slower than troodon, herrera, omni or dilo but still can get butchered by a herrera pounce, dilo bite or omni pounce

it is slow and also until 86% it gets pinned by omni

I also didn't say clearly winning

I said having tools to not get demolished by passive players

[strong crypt]

hey lets make carno 2t so it can defeat tenon because its supposed to be a good small game hunter and larger

[edgy moon]

being able to kill people who don't know how to play is irrelevant to a balance discussion though

[elfin night]

because rn if you are against two dilos, you ram one, the other bites you while you are in the self stun and you're done

[strong crypt]

sounds the smae to me as u saying patchy is supposed to be a good brawler

[elfin night]

it's meant to be a good brawler, doesn't mean breezing through an army or mixpack

Dunno why letting good pachies fight 2-3 dilos or omnis is bad

[strong crypt]

i totally agree balancing should be done without skill

[dusky surge]

"let's make carno hunt bigger things because it's supposed to hunt small things"

lol i dont think that argument is as strong as you think it is

[strong crypt]

making a point rex i dont actually think that

[elfin night]

it's still a bad argument

and has nothing to do with what we are discussing

carno is a functional small game hunter currently

Pachy is not a functional brawler

You could make pachy grow in a little more time, yes

but you want it twice as much if we did something as minimal as removing self stun

that's so disproportionate

[strong crypt]

patchy is a funcitonal small brawler

[elfin night]

beat 2 fg dilos at once then

they can catch up to you and trees won't stop them

[strong crypt]

i will if you give me 2 patchies

[elfin night]

pffffttt

[strong crypt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i0VVWs2tJI

also here

[elfin night]

good brawler but it needs 7 pachies total to defeat 3 night ambushers

dunno why you keep pushing this after exposing yourself like that

[strong crypt]

xD i had 6 including me and everyone died wihtout a fight and then i killed 4 of them solo

[dusky surge]

cant you make a montage of any dinosaur and say that makes it strong

[elfin night]

in a string of 1v1s with ambushes yeah

[strong crypt]

he litrally said show me u fighting 2 fg dilos at once

[elfin night]

and you didnt

[strong crypt]

wdym

thats 3

watch closly now before commenting

[dusky surge]

also cant i just say "you're bad because you can't beat dibble" and thus dibble is now fine, because that's exactly what you're doing with pachy

show a video of a cera soloing a dibble

thus, dibble is bad

[edgy moon]

Please don't expose the deino community like this, it's all we have

[strong crypt]

1 died before than i fought 2

[dusky surge]

TRUE

DEINO IS LITERALLY JUST THAT LMAO

Montage bait, not actually that good an animal

[elfin night]

I am watching it rn and I only see two dilos on screen for 10 seconds before they run away

If you actually fought two dilos at a time, one would maul you in the moment you throw a ram bro. 2v1 dilos is unwinnable against players with a brain. All it takes is one or two bites (easy in ram recovery or while your friend is getting beaten up) and run away let 3-4 clone strikes leave the pachy already in red if not dead

[dusky surge]

honestly

dilos genuinely shoulda facetanked you, it would easily win them the match

[elfin night]

THIS

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[strong crypt]

now if im correct you want 1 patchy do beat two 700kg dilos alone that each individually have longer growth time and combined weight of 1400kg with poison and 85 biteforce and redicoulusly high AS

[elfin night]

THIS LITERALLY. THEY TRADE YOU EFFORTLESSLY

but no, they ran away so now pachy is good

[strong crypt]

well u say its not viable but it really is you can be good and play it even when fighting against the odds

[elfin night]

1. We already established combined weight doesn't matter.

2. We already established I wouldn't mind pachy with buffs taking somewhat longer but not 3-4 hours

3. Yeah that's how niches work. Dilos are not brawling powerhouses. The agility, running noise, no bleed resistance and bite speed tells you they are meant to capitalize on ambushes and short openings to get the venom and run away

[strong crypt]

and these are normal people playing on normal servers not pros. and im even saying in 1v1 its litrally a good brawler even if ur against good players.

its therefore viable in survival since u can beat the odds with skill and also a viable brawler since u can beat them in 1 on 1 combat

[elfin night]

if they actually wanted, you would have died in 30 seconds right there

[strong crypt]

honestly what even does matter to you

[elfin night]

not even pros

just mildly aware

[golden coral]

Keep in mind the weight, and growth time, and so on, are not the only factors. If pachy is meant to be a good brawler, then its meant to be more powerful than the omni, sufficiently so that omni should struggle heavily, and maybe prefer having a partner. Even if they are the same size/growth or similar. And yes, a trike being overall more powerful than a rex, so that a rex would prefer having a partner, wouldn't be wrong, at least not to me.

[edgy moon]

'beating' something as a herbivore is entirely different from (b)eating something as a carnivore

[elfin night]

I want pachy to be an actually self sufficient dinosaur instead of a noob stomper

if I could find someone, we could put that to practice

2 dilos at a time vs 1 pachy

Even at day the pachy gets ran down and steamrolled

facetanked despite being a goddamn pachycephalosaurus

even two omnis could win if they actually care to without being pros

[golden coral]

Just remove the stun "punishment", just like omni has no punishment on pounce

[elfin night]

He said that pachy would be utterly broken without it and that if it got it, it should have twice as much growth time

[golden coral]

Now they're both agile, and pachy would then presumably be the stronger of the two, yet not impossible for an omni to take on, especially if the hunter does the ambushing, as it should, and not the other way around

[elfin night]

beyond any hope

[strong crypt]

no its not

what i said i said it would be utterly broken

[elfin night]

and you said why and the conversation parted from that premise

[strong crypt]

and then i serperatly responded to you saying u want it to be able to beat two dilos and omnis alone that im fine with that if u added more growth time

[golden coral]

Is omni utterly broken cause it has no punishment?

[elfin night]

and that change would allow it to not get eviscerated by two mildly competent dilos or omnis

[strong crypt]

no but omni pounce does not instantly kill you

[elfin night]

and for that, you said pachy should grow in almost as much time as dibble

Which comes to show how out of touch you are in terms of balancing

for it to be able to have the upper hand

in a confrontation it cannot choose to engage with

[elfin night]

it pretty much is a death sentence for like half of the roster

[strong crypt]

ah sorry maybe not dubble but somewher along carno growth time i guess

[elfin night]

that's like 30 minutes more

30% increase, not 100%

and I agreed with a slight increase

saying pachy should take 3 hours to grow was criminal

[strong crypt]

ur wrong its 75 minutes and it is also alot easier to grow a herbivore with 200% growth time for sanct mushrooms

[elfin night]

it's not one hour and a half? damn lol

still longer than a carno or cera for a no self stun pachy is criminal

[strong crypt]

carno growth time with perfect diet is 2 hours 50 minutes

[elfin night]

no

it got changed in the latest patch to match cerato

[strong crypt]

ah okay mb then

also if u really make patchy this strong u really think theres gonna be 1 of them?

[golden coral]

Nor does pachy headbutt. Omni pounce is quite lethal, just like the claims about the headbutt. So yeah, if one isn't broken, I doubt the other one will be. At the very least, it should be tried out.

[elfin night]

obviously not. People would be compelled to play something that can actually survive on its own and doesn't need gambling montage to look viable

[strong crypt]

not even close

also the reason i say patchy headbutt does not instakill but it is a death sentence since i can hit legbreak and then yah dead

no counterplay after first hit headbutt

[golden coral]

No? How so then? You think the headbutt is more powerful, versatile, and overall useful than the pounce?

[elfin night]

pachy heabutts galli = often body or head fracture

omni pounces galli = pinned and killed

[strong crypt]

not at all i think its better for that matchup

[golden coral]

Yes, and omni pounce is often a death sentence too, but with less requirements, not needing a specific break to be that good

[elfin night]

[strong crypt]

this is not true

[strong crypt]

ill send u this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAwRwGFn-Z0

[edgy moon]

A fight starts long before the first blow is landed though, and if it goes to the herbivore then the carnivore has made at least one mistake

[golden coral]

No? Pin? Pounce for similar sized critters is quite lethal as well. And you don't need a specific pounce angle, whereas legbreak does require, well, hitting the leg

[strong crypt]

i was able to hit leg fracture with about 90-95% accuracy

[golden coral]

If omni can be fine with no punishment on pounce, I really don't see why pachy can't be fine with no punishment on ram

[strong crypt]

1. ive already stated im against the pin vs small dont know how to fix it tho.
2. omni cannot pin the patchy

[elfin night]

good

[golden coral]

Pachy is overall slower, with a more telegraphed move at that, unless you're tap ramming, but last I played, that did not yield as much power/break as a full one

[elfin night]

it can slow you down to the point where you will die if you're not like 20 meters or less close to a tree

[golden coral]

Hence why I mentioned "pounce vs similar sized critters", which is still quite a lethal move, unless pounce has been severely nerfed in damage and bleed

[elfin night]

and if you're like 10, that's half of your health gone

[strong crypt]

i thought you would say this so i tested it yesterday. how this was done is that raptor pounce me hit LMB for DMG pounce and we see if it kills me no trees terrain involved.

out of 20 times testing this i did not die 1 time becasue of bucking knocking it off
the lowest i got was 30% hp and most of the time i was 60% hp

[elfin night]

it is completely random

[strong crypt]

also raptor landing a pounce. now he wants to do this from the sides.
if he does it from the front he dead i can headbutt.
if he does it from the side ive already screwed up letting him get to the side

[elfin night]

I've also seen many pachies dying on the spot or getting pounced right after bucking someone off

[strong crypt]

the odds of you dying is very low and ur simply wrong to think that you would die from 1 pounce.
maybe u think this since a couple of pounces bucking only drained their stamina and didnt knock them off

[elfin night]

either way, as said

wish I could have someone who isn't useless to test it

[strong crypt]

im gonna use ur argument they were clearly trash and didnt press E

[elfin night]

2 dilos or 2 mildly aware omnis is basically unwinnable for pachy

[elfin night]

[strong crypt]

also not useless what u think he failed holding DMG pounce?

[elfin night]

also inescapable for the most part

[strong crypt]

i took dmg so thats not possible

[elfin night]

I am talking about what I said right after

to prove how dilo duos are unwinnable for pachy, I would need a random that isn't abysmal garbage with terrible spacing and not keeping up the pressure

[strong crypt]

so to me this looks like if u dont have trees a raptor has to dodge every headbutt and hit 2 pounces otherwise he loses

[elfin night]

but even on paper it's so glaringly obvious

You ram, at least one of them jumps you. Two dilo bites or one good pounce and that's gg

because pachy is so terribly clunky, dysfunctional at anything but a 1v1 where it can knock down and one dimensional

[strong crypt]

do you know how hard it is to have 2 people coardinate like this whilst im running back and forth turning and if u hit ur dead

you know i can dodge pounces aswell

[edgy moon]

child's play?

[elfin night]

if one gets hit, the other punishes the pachy

it's not hard to do

Even in the case of dilos they can brainlessly rush you down and still win

[golden coral]

Maybe the rework of pachy will see some adjustments to the ram, would be interesting if they did remove the self stun. Will stand by that if omni can have a "free" pounce, so can pachy have a "free" ram. Pachy is overall far less of a danger to most things, being slower, less agile, and with a more clear attack. And if its a matter of breaks being too powerful, well, there used to be something about fractures and degrees of them, if that's still a thing, it would probably help.

[strong crypt]

also now ur saying that 2 omnis can kill me and im not allowed to use terrrain?

[elfin night]

and there's nothing the pachy can do

And no "erm but I won against 3 dilos!!" will save you because they were playing like a string of 1v1s and there was only two on screen for like 5 seconds when even a fg and a fresh adult can easily obliterate one pachy

[strong crypt]

the punish window is really small for when u charge it longer and hit somone maybe u dont know this

[elfin night]

and now that I recall, none of this really matters because pachy has a confirmed rework

[strong crypt]

he also risk hitting his freind with pounce if i move aswell

[strong crypt]

yes

[golden coral]

Are people really that bad at things like that? I could team up with randoms back in the day and never have any issue with coordination. If you know your playable and how it works, it shouldn't be that difficult.

[strong crypt]

im just arguing because u are wrong

[elfin night]

many players are garbo rn

[elfin night]

where?

[edgy moon]

people knowing how to play destroys his entire argument though

[golden coral]

I don't know if it does that, I just have always found the "coordination so difficult" claim to be strange when I've been able to team up with people and not hit each other or stuff. But I also never understood the "landing pounce is so difficult" (way back from the beginning and all) so maybe it's just me.

[strong crypt]

you refuse to hop on a server to show me stuff and test other stuff, i give u explenation of how to beat everything 1 on 1 and and show u how to beat multiple people on survival.
if goal was to only survive its so godamn easy to grow patchy to 100%

[golden coral]

You mean since always, right? xD

[elfin night]

Never refused. I was largely unavailable or you want to test things I already agree with

And as we have stated and you have shown in your vids, the demonstration is flawed

you did not take on multiple dilos at once and we can test it

[strong crypt]

yes ur unavaivable meanwhile u been writing essays for days in this chat

[elfin night]

and you almost killed yourself for pressing one button when you needed it

[elfin night]

I need a computer to play the isle

not a phone

[strong crypt]

yeah i made a mistake everyone does tbh

[elfin night]

anyways, we could try that if I find someone good willing to try

2v1 dilos and omnis

To show you how good and effective pachy is

[strong crypt]

i dont understand why you want me to 2v1 dilos or omnis

[elfin night]

a mistake that with no other playable would have killed you, and all because you are using the janky and only mechanic you have to not die right there on the spot

[strong crypt]

whilst i think 2v1 good omnis might be possible dilos would not be

[elfin night]

Because pachy should be decent at that and it absolutely is not

[strong crypt]

why?

[elfin night]

it is fighting against ambushers and pack hunters but as a brawler it is at the mercy of ANYTHING other than a 1v1 where it can knock them down

[elfin night]

it is so much slower too. It has no freedom to disengage unlike dilos or omnis if they are at a disadvantage

but while teno can fight two carnos, pachy can't do anything vs dilos

[golden coral]

One, it can not escape them. Two, it was shown as a brawler that might even have had a anti-pounce mechanic. Three, pachy comes off as a hardy fighter that is quite the dangerous prey.

[elfin night]

come on

[golden coral]

Should it win, not neccesarily. Should it be a dangerous fight even for a pair, preferably. Similar to trike, or diablo, in a sense.

[elfin night]

you took on 3 dilos as pachy, right? It is sooo good

There should be no issue taking on just two of them at a time

[golden coral]

To be fair, carno is no longer meant to fight teno at all

[elfin night]

design matters there too

I could use other examples

[golden coral]

I know, I agree with you, just that it might be the best example any more

[elfin night]

like teno not being really at the complete mercy of two ceras (op lol) that just wanna facetank

Meanwhile pachy is at the mercy of two dilos who just wanna facetank

[golden coral]

But even before, you could at times put up a decent fight as teno

[strong crypt]

dilos and omnis have 0% freedom of dissengage if i hit headbutt

[elfin night]

not really because head fracture

and even then they already chose to fight. Two dilos pull up and even with body or leg you're getting dunked on by the pair

[golden coral]

If you hit it, if it breaks, if they're in a bad spot (or get a leg fracture, pretty sure you can escape with a head fracture or body fracture, though difficult)

[elfin night]

and guess what. There's more likelihood for dilo and omni packs because they are actually viable on their own

[strong crypt]

litrally linked a video of me hitting leg breaks 2 times in a row. i could make a longer video of u want me of that

[edgy moon]

Even if you land a headbutt on one what's to stop the other from killing you while you're stunned?

[strong crypt]

it did happend more i just didnt record it

also you want the patchy btw to alone be able to beat two dilos do you know how strong it has to be to do that. even carno can struggle with this, and ur forggetting it has a PACK IT IS NOT SOLO I DONT KNOW WHY YOU KEEP ACTING LIKE IT IS

[golden coral]

No, I do trust you to be capable of landing your hits, I'm not questioning your skill or luck, or else. Merely saying you do need to achieve that to prevent them from disengaging properly.

[golden coral]

Carno can also run away though. But if you did remove the self stun on ram, would it really be that devastating?

[strong crypt]

but balancing should not be made from bad peoples POV

honestly thats how u get a really unbalanced game. and they will keep complaining about random stuff that doesnt make any sense because they look for reasons they lose rather then themselves being bad

[golden coral]

Correct, it shouldn't. You need to look at the actual stats and so on, cause that's what determines what you can actually do in the game.

But the question then is, if both sides plays perfectly, is pachy as powerful as it ought to be

[strong crypt]

stats and what it is actually capable of

Yes it is

unless if you outnumber it

[golden coral]

And that, is of course where the divide is. Valiant here clearly believes its not, while you believe it is

[strong crypt]

so the thing ur arguing that patchy is supposed to be a good brawler it does that against 1 ambush animal like omni or dilo.
however u get two of them now techincally 1 of them can hit u from behind therefore they are using their nieche as an ambush animal

[golden coral]

I've not played for a while, so I can't say much on it, except that pachy has been somewhat shown as "is supposed to be really difficult prey for omni". If that is the case or not, I don't know

Yes, and then the question is how much pachy should struggle vs 1, and vs 2

After all, your idea of "it does good" is well, rather subjective in the end, just like Valiants and others are

[strong crypt]

and then i would say shoudl the 450kg 1h 35m growth time that cant starve just be so good that it would win against 2 fg equal size animals even tho they can go behind it and attack its weakness??? No i do not think so.

and if you say that it should you are only thinking about the patchy players what about the omni with equal growth time being utterly usless in comparison hearing shisse like You can just run away

yes u can just hunt AI and afk

funn

[golden coral]

Would it be useless even if it ambushes? If the omni properly ambushes, even if the pachy no longer has stun on ram, would the omni still be doomed?

[strong crypt]

look at this msg pls

[strong crypt]

also patchy can just afk at the corner of the map eating grass to never die doesnt mean its good for the game

[strong crypt]

its mostly cus they say u cannot survive. however i can say this is patchy stronger in 1v1 yes is it stronger in 2v2 yes is it1 stronger in 3v3 yes. is nieche of brawler fulliflled yes.

does it win 2v1 if omniraptors have the best coardination that has never been witnessed? No

its does good for a smaller dinosaurs

[golden coral]

Agreed, but thats not really relevant to any matchups to be fair

Grazing could do with a rework

[strong crypt]

i look at it subjectivly when people ask me questions like its impossible to survive since its a subjective question

[golden coral]

Fair enough. I don't really know, maybe pachy is better than what it seems like, in which case, all good then

Though I don't think anyone really argued that it's impossible to survive, more so that it just isn't doing as good as they expect or want it to

[strong crypt]

its been said that its not a viable option which is not true if looking at the facts that it beats other animals of same size and has higher pack sizes than for example dilo and can in higher numbers beat larger dinosaurs like carno it can outrun evrythign but raptor dilo and carno and has a jump function to avoid dilos and carnos

also @golden coral there is another problem in this game that makes it alot harder to balance which is desync.

so you might say patchy vs omni is easy all he has to do is dodge this and pounce but the thing is he cant realiable dodge it and punish me because if he does not keep greater distance than actually needed he might be hit by a lagg headbutt into insta leg break (insta death)

[golden coral]

To be fair, that goes both ways

You could also be thinking you're hitting a ram, but you're not, which would explain why others say pachy isn't that good, or at least could explain it

[strong crypt]

now i will say one thing that these Desync happenings combined with high punish abilities with cc combos like dibble, tenon, patchy, trike, stego makes them so much stronger then they actally are on paper. because hitting the ability lagg will help you however followup is not random or lag based and is concsistent

[strong crypt]

another ability that really benefits from this lagg is also carno charge

but desync makes combat prediciton based in alot of casese execpt for playalbes with hard punishes like tenon slam and patchy headbutt

[golden coral]

I'm not sure it speaks all that well to a playable if it's strong due to desync though

[strong crypt]

well look on it this way could i tecnically dodge a tenon kick every time? yes.
but now lets say i wanna punish it i will have to be facing the right direciton and ready to strike.
with Desync the range of the attack will vary alot since his kick is registering where he was rather than were he is. now when he hits this tenon kick even tho he is laggy because it has cc he can get another kick to my head consistently

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExeW8zcjM5MW04OWN6a3N5eGxpaHh5N29ueTRmeXh2YXh4ZTc3aDFoNSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/rajCos3LpXgNlDYgfH/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[golden coral]

Wouldn't that apply the other way around too, though?

[strong crypt]

it does apply everywhere its just that carnivores dont have cc abilities really

and it scales particularly well with cc abilities

because the lagg is inconsistent but the combos after the CC is not

and these abilities are like dont get hit abilities and they do have a punish window evne tenon and dibbles but its to small with the desync issue

[golden coral]

Ah okay, yeah that's fair, didn't think of that

[strong crypt]

but it does work the other way around since somtimes you will hit them and still not get a registerd hit which makes it a bit of a prediciton game rather than skill based (u can see this as a skill if u want i guess)

now take two people making predictions like cera predicting ur kick so he can punish that and tenon predicting ur gonna dodge the one with the higher damage and defensive abilites usually have a high advantage since tenon have to make 3-2 predicions to win and cera has to make 5-4 predictions.

now if u add bile or body buff obiviously this changes

also harder to hit abilities having more reward is another that should come into affect now we agreed skill shouldnt be a factor in balance but if a playable is harder it should have more tools that can be used in various situations

for example diffrent bonebreaks doing diffrent stuff and which one to aim for in order to have a higher chance of winning

and then u have niches aswell coming into play which makes balancing even harder

[unreal crystal]

I think pachy is super viable.... stats to confirm bellow (pulled from Petit just now)

[dusky surge]

yea you wanna know why?

because they removed the mutations that outright make pachy beyond worthless

also pachy is still bad regardless of whatever i guess petits tells you lol

i guess by that logic trike is just terrible because look how little people play it

[unreal crystal]

Yes I don't like dmg/speed gastro mutations....I hope they get completely removed from the game

[thorn mountain]

tactile isnt good either for the game

[unreal crystal]

You might be onto something but it's also possible that if 5 people with "buffpachy" in their nickname decide pachy needs a buff the rest of pachy enjoyers might have a different opinion

[dusky surge]

i mean... there's a reason why the "buff pachy" concept is so popular

[unreal crystal]

Agree... if they remove gastro they should remove tactile aswell imo

[potent fox]

Petits is a very different environment. No mix packing and herbis are going quite well on there. Pachy also scales with group number very well and with 300 players you can always find a pack. Carno is normally super popular but on Petits it has less players than pachy bc of how different the server is

[dusky surge]

if they remove tactile, they should rework maia and stego's stamcosts. Those animals are reliant as hell on that mutation

[dusky surge]

True. Pachy is literally a herd animal

[elfin night]

This is a pretty poor analysis on your own, since you’re not accounting for mutation removal and also the fact that the other herbivores are restricted and people will pick Pachy over dryo because at least it has something

[unreal crystal]

I think you are getting confused, it's ok I will explain. So basically those stats shows that people decided to play pachy over most herbivores/carnivores

[strong crypt]

im playing there RN xD but i dont think playerbase = viability. just look at league of legends u can have least played champions be super OP strong

however i do think alot of other stuff is making it viable tho

but the comment that a patchy is not viable on its own is wild

[dusky surge]

it still isnt

like its wild because it's true lmao

it really shouldn't be

[strong crypt]

i mean omni dies if it vs dilo or carno and dont use terain for example

doesnt make it not viable because you can use terrain

[unreal crystal]

I think you are absolutely right but was also trying to prove that "pachy population is inexistent" argument is not valid (also... no disrespect for playing LOL but Dota player here xd)

[dusky surge]

there's a difference betwenn being able to use terrain and necessitating terrain to not explode

[strong crypt]

ah well i think people dont play it because they might think its bad, it feels clunky, it has very boring spawn locations and MZ, its smaller playable and its a herbivore

[dusky surge]

its so weird that you've found literally every roundabout way to call pachy weak without calling it weak

• just use terrain
• you're just bad
• it can kill bad players easily
• just hide
• certain animals will just kill you

at some point you gotta admit its bad

[strong crypt]

hmm maybe it is not weak!?!?!? maybe ur opinion of weak is boring spawn locations?

[elfin night]

I think you’re getting confused, it’s ok I will explain

Other herbivores and carnivores are picked and have caps in Petits, so people gotta play pachy in order to have some fun even if it is bad

[dusky surge]

genuinely if you think the only reason i want it buffed is because it spawns in north jungle that's an INSANE stretch

[strong crypt]

this is also true

[dusky surge]

like pachy can easily get anywhere early due to its high speed and stam as a juvi, spawns are NOT an issue lol

[strong crypt]

the part were playables are limited

[dusky surge]

also MZs are also a non-issue because NO herbivore cares about MZs, Patrols do all the work for you

[elfin night]

I don’t know why would someone be unable to get that

[dusky surge]

all of your reasons are just finding every reason besides just admitting pachy is bad

[elfin night]

The reason people play pachy even though it’s trash is because dryo has less to do

[dusky surge]

^

[elfin night]

And then all the good ones are picked at their cap

Doesn’t say anything about viability

[strong crypt]

well in my experience whenever i do find patchies most of the time its up in the north where it spawns

[dusky surge]

also Petits is a rare server that actually supports pachy because you have a chance of actually FINDING another pachy

[vale brook]

you mean the one area they're actually somewhat viable in because of one singular rock

color me shocked

[elfin night]

and has incentives for people picking pachy in the first place

petits pick rates have nothing to do with this conversation

[strong crypt]

like how does omni feel lmao.
u die every time due to desync your pounce is super buggy 1 hit from patchy is technically dead
1 hit tenon dibble trike dead carno unless u have rock kills it cerato u cant fight what so ever dilo wins vs you.
and the matchups u do win is by pressing 1 button to pin it

and add Desync to the mix

[vale brook]

i dont see how omnis issues nullify pachys

[strong crypt]

also the fact that these playables have to eat aswell with limited food

well omni is really bad in many scenarios but all u care about is patchy being able to beat it lmao

which it can

[elfin night]

we know 1v1 is doable dude

[strong crypt]

like all these problems that ur talking about it not being able to run away form dilo or carno or raptor still applies to raptor

[elfin night]

problem is that pachy ZERO flexibility outside of a 1v1

[vale brook]

and would you say raptor is in a bad spot?

[strong crypt]

honestly im not really sure compared to cera tenon dibble yeah i would say but this is mostly because of Desync

[vale brook]

and if all its problems also apply to pachy

that means what for pachy

[unreal crystal]

Ah I see, you most likely don't play on Petit that's why you keep getting confused but not to worry I will explain again.
There were no caps on other herbivores at the timw i took the screenshot(not sure about trike )as the stats clearly shows supply/demand
Also if we check the latest ss I took just now we can see some people did indeed pick more teno,maia etc from the last time

[strong crypt]

well if u buff the living shi out off patchy u can add it to the pile of stuff omni is useless against

[vale brook]

oh so THAT'S the actual issue here

[strong crypt]

not really balancing is

[vale brook]

not that pachy is bad, just that it would amplify omnis badness

awesome sauce

glad we can put that to rest

[strong crypt]

lillbro tryna catch an AHA moment

i dont even play omni

im saying there is more than 1 playable that you like that should be strong

[vale brook]

i mean you admit pachys problems are similar to omni

and in your mind, omni is bad compared to a large portion of the roster

so by extension, that would mean you also think pachy is bad

[strong crypt]

yeah desync and buggss

doesnt mean i think they are equally strong

[vale brook]

and instead of just saying "yeah, both of these playables can be fixed to not be bad", we just decide to leave pachy alone while continuing to spout about how much omni sucks

[strong crypt]

just think they have same issues

[dusky surge]

they kind of do, except pachy has like, the same issues but way worse LMAO

like everything omni has, pachy has but worse

[strong crypt]

okay so ive said this before ill say it again for you @vale brook . Tenon cera dibble are currently strong now we can buff every playable up to their level or we can nerf these three idc how its done

or u can say these three are balanced and u can buff the others to be good aswell

[elfin night]

can you prove that thing of caps being limited is true?

and even then we did not even address that petits does in fact encourage people to play those who are normally underpicked

and the argument isn't even whether or not it's picked

it is about it being underwhelming

[strong crypt]

just feels easier to change 3 playables than change all of them

reason i dont mention trike and stego is cus it is kinda hard to tell how strong they are without counterparts

[elfin night]

sometimes doing things properly takes effort

[unreal crystal]

Petit has a reward system for endangered species like dryo, beipi etc but pachy is not on that list.
Though it used to be in the past tbh but I guess they realise that was a mistake so it's not an endangered species anymore

[elfin night]

it was not long ago and I perfectly recall that

[dusky surge]

its even easier to change 1 playable lol

[elfin night]

whatever. Not like this does much to address the issue

[strong crypt]

also ive never once before spouted omni is bad

[strong crypt]

O_o

[viscid mica]

Hrm

[strong crypt]

im willing to change my opinions about patchy being bad btw but the main reasons i see is it losing to omni and dilo and i cannot understand how this is the case unless outnumberd

from what i can tell people also want it to be an easier playable, but then in order for it to be balanced you would have to nerf its current state which im oposed to

[viscid mica]

Self stun + far slower ++ super telegraphed attack

Basically pachy can noob stomp sure

But any omni or dilo with any actual skill if even a lil will beat even good or great pachy

Only the best of pachy will beat actually competent omni and even than barely

Oh and pachy does garbage damage

It’s charge attack does less than dilo bite if I’m not mistaken

Wait no

It’s 126

Alt left click 63
Left click 30
RMB charge 126

Mind you charge requires you to be sprinting

[strong crypt]

and this is not true and i will not be convinced untill i actually see it happening because RN its not happening on the servers logically i can think of ways for patchy to beat them and thuss i am not convinced

this is good ziowar actual stats

[viscid mica]

It’s not happening cuz no one plays pachy

I play pachy tons

[unreal crystal]

I completely disagree

[viscid mica]

I can tell you in 100% confidence any good omni beats any amazing pachy

Simply by playing stam and abusing pachys absurd pounce angles

[strong crypt]

so patchys stun is 125dmg and u can land another one guarranted that adds up to 250 dmg

[viscid mica]

You can unironically front pounce pachy if your even 5o to the side of its face

[strong crypt]

also they cant bite you when you stun them it will cancel their attack

[viscid mica]

Kinda

If stun times are still awful you could get away with a lot

[strong crypt]

this aswell if i do headbutt you will not be able to front pounce me and will be knocked down

[viscid mica]

If they are fixed than should be only 1 or 2 yes

[viscid mica]

Your not throwing out a pounce like that if the pachy is sprinting

Like I said “good omni”

90% of omni you’ll come across are not good at all

So pachy is yes a noob stomper

[strong crypt]

who is a good omni in your opinion? do you have anyone in mind?

[viscid mica]

If they don’t spam pounces and know how to use the agility to evade they are good

[unreal crystal]

Everything under 750kg in a 1v1 is not even a contest for pachy tbh

[viscid mica]

They don’t need to be perfect just not be Bruning stam like a phyco

[viscid mica]

If they aren’t good yes

Dilo can in fact fade tank so long as pachy doesn’t get a head break

We tested this

[strong crypt]

i do not see this happening since patchy can turn faster than raptor can run around me if patchy knock you down he can with high consistency hit leg breaks

[viscid mica]

I can find the videos they will be somewhere

[viscid mica]

Uhhhh no pachy cannot turn faster than omni nor can it do so while posturing to ram

[strong crypt]

now i have a sulotion for dilo matchup im not sure if i can hit consistent leg breaks vs it but i will soon find out

[viscid mica]

Omni can turn 90o without losing speed

[viscid mica]

Of so we tested this

Basically you have to either have amazing luck or put your face perfectly inside of the leg to get a leg break

And even than some times it randomly logs a body

[strong crypt]

yes but since you are trying to run around patchy wihtouth beiing hit and he can just turn his body you would need more MS in order to accomplish this

[unreal crystal]

I agree dilo is a machine gun lol but you don't stay there to trade as pachy.. you get knockdown, get your alts in and then you step aside for the next knockdown

[viscid mica]

Play distance any player who can achieve “good” in anything will know how spacing works

[viscid mica]

Ya but 2 bites during day 1 night

Your 8km faster

Gl pachy

[strong crypt]

your not hearing me im saying ur not gonna be able to run 90¤ turns around it since you will be close enough to be hit by the first headbutt

its a logical issue where bigger circles takes longer time to lapse around than smaller once in this case omni has to run a bigger circle than patchy

[viscid mica]

Than they aren’t a good omni

[strong crypt]

im not really good at explaining this

you just cant

[viscid mica]

I know what your saying

I get it your right pachy can stomp omni

But I’m pointing out that it’s only a noob stomper

[strong crypt]

technically not possible wihtouth being in headbutt range

[viscid mica]

It can’t do nothing against anything beyond relatively unskilled players

[strong crypt]

@unreal crystal u wanna test some of this on EUomni?

[viscid mica]

Most isle players don’t understand spacing nor know other creatures move sets

[strong crypt]

i do not care about most players or skill level when talking about balancing

[viscid mica]

If you want I can try and find my testing vids that should be in this chat or gen

I just can’t remember the username of the person I did the testing with my brain is dying on me

[viscid mica]

You should

[unreal crystal]

Can't right now sorry mate... I'll jump on the Isle later

[strong crypt]

im gonna have to be not subjective @golden coral made a good point

[viscid mica]

On average most players get absolutely eradicated when playing pachy

[strong crypt]

its a skill issue

[viscid mica]

Only those with basic game skills can survive let alone thrive

[strong crypt]

this is the case for every playable

[viscid mica]

When it’s by such a massive margin it’s really not

[strong crypt]

you will die playing cerato trying to fight a dibble head on

[viscid mica]

Pachy requires you to be good from the start to even dare to grow it

No room for learning

[strong crypt]

it being a high skill playable doesnt make it weak

[viscid mica]

But it does

Cuz it’s not just high skill it has a artificial cap

[strong crypt]

we do have Dryosaurus as that kinda is a newplayer dinosaur just for learning controls

[viscid mica]

Because it’s impossible to surpass the self stun and damage and speed limitations that are extremely high

[viscid mica]

Dryo…. Is entirely incomplete and is even less grow able

It’s slow and extremely vulnerable

[strong crypt]

in what case is it impossible?

survival or pvp?

[viscid mica]

Heavy limitations on what you can do in a fight

And survival as your forced to take photo

[strong crypt]

same goes for carno right

[viscid mica]

Otherwise due to ceratos

[viscid mica]

No?

Carno has a cap but def not a artificially forced one

[strong crypt]

carno has very heavy limitations on what it can do due to its turn rate and abilities

[viscid mica]

It’s self stun only applies if you knowingly charge things bigger than you

[viscid mica]

Do you think carno can hunt a cera?

[strong crypt]

subjectivly or not?

[viscid mica]

Not sure what you mean

If too very good players of each playable collide who wins?

[strong crypt]

i think if we remove skill of the equation(looking at abilities capabilities terrain stats etc) no there is no way that a carno wins vs a cerato in a fight. however cane 3 carnos beat 3 ceratos in a survival fight yes

[viscid mica]

K

How many hours do you have on evirma?

[strong crypt]

800 smth

[viscid mica]

And have you grown everything more than once?

[strong crypt]

yes

actually not trike

[viscid mica]

And you don’t think a carno can beat a cera 1v1?

[viscid mica]

It’s not really fun tbh I completed my grow awhile ago sucked apex game play is super boring

[strong crypt]

I main carno i can say it can beat cerato in a fight but it requiers cerato being worse than you

and skill shouldnt be a factor in blaance

[viscid mica]

But the average capacity should

If something on average is completely avoided because it’s simply obnoxious to play and even skilled players avoid it means it’s in a bad spot

[strong crypt]

unless per say that a higher skill playable should maybe have more tools than the super easy one so you would be more capable

[viscid mica]

Pachy is one such thing

[strong crypt]

yeah and u have 3 diffrent bonbreak functions that you need to hit and apply in order to benefit you

[viscid mica]

I find that carno skill cap is far higher than cera and no matter how good the cera two players of equal skill on the high end the carno always wins

[viscid mica]

Which mind you a large portion of playables are basically immune due to completely random fracture resistance ex. Teno and cera

[strong crypt]

i totally agree carno is more skillfull than cera. I have thought about this before and wonder why this is.

1 these players might not actually be of equal skill

2. although u can learn alot on carno its ability is super easy to use as it is tecnically harder for cera to time the RMB charge bite then for you to just hold ur RMB and charge at them. thats why carno is very capable to win with avrage skillbase

3, the way that carnos ability works with other carnos is really strong

however i do not know for certain which one of these are true or not

[viscid mica]

The simple reality is pachy is slower than everything its weight, does less damage over all than everything its weight, and has a random self stun unlike everything its weight as well as its primary function being directly countered completely randomly by things within the weight category it was supposed to punch

It is bad at its intended function simply cuz it was too strong when it first dropped got nuked and never balanced out

[viscid mica]

Do you know how to drift alt bite?

[strong crypt]

yes

[viscid mica]

So you do know that the alt bite has longer range than cera and if you drift alt bite right before cera bite hitbox they will wiff but you won’t?

[strong crypt]

u want to drift so you do sid alt and not behind alt right

[viscid mica]

Yes

You have roughly 100o of bite range for easy sprint re-entry

You can also do charge+bite where you cancel charge right as the headbutt animation starts and left click for bite damage ontop of charge

^this is really hard to do

[strong crypt]

this is intressting actually ill have to test it

[viscid mica]

It’s really really hard only know afew carnos who can land it consistently without canceling charge as it’s a frame thing

[strong crypt]

this i know

ofc i know this only range increase is suprising to me

always thought it was desync

[viscid mica]

It’s not increase it’s just that you have a longer range than cera bite will noting that carno alt takes a step foward so if you get the range just right you could make em wiff a charge bite

Thou some very good ones will know to hold it abit longer and step into the attack

You can always switch up between drift alts and cycle charging to keep it confusing

[strong crypt]

the reason carno lose fights according to me is simply because ceratos can stand where u cannot charge which they should if you start running to china every time to get a stun. and if you dont do stun they can charge bite normal bite you every time u charge+attack and its just out dmg

[viscid mica]

Carnos tend to rush fights

Patients stam management and letting bile wear off before recharging lets you win far more consistently

I don’t think I’ve lost a 1v1 on main survival to a cera in ages

[strong crypt]

well you can bolt out of there if you are losing xD

[viscid mica]

In fact I’ve won a 3v1 about 2 months ago mind you they where all slightly hurt from a fight with a teno but still

[strong crypt]

ziowar u EU?

[viscid mica]

Na

[strong crypt]

ah sadge

[viscid mica]

I’m Canadian

Tbh I have played EU and no disrespect but NA omnis are a lot better than eu on average

You encounter good omnis far more often than on EU

Which probably contributes to why I don’t think pachy is in a good spot

It’s basically only playable in hordes or by really good players

[strong crypt]

i dont belive this tbh its just my server better than urs crap

[viscid mica]

It’s easy enough to grow but surviving more than 30 minutes after fging is hard

[strong crypt]

might be easier do to your desync being higher

[viscid mica]

I’ve played on every major eu na unofficial and officials

[strong crypt]

yeah but its no doubt that high ping players are harder to face when they are on cc animals

or in general

[viscid mica]

The best omnis I know are eu but on average na omnis are a wee more competent

[strong crypt]

tell me a good EU omni

i would like to test patchy against them

[viscid mica]

I don’t know any in official discord

Man I can’t remember who I tested this with

Brain function plz

[strong crypt]

very possible i vs them on EUomni server since its the main one for pvp now

[viscid mica]

1 sec lemme go see if the videos are in DMs