balance-feedback-discussion

[strong crypt]

i did it yesterday

[elfin night]

20 seconds more of runtime gives you so much distance

Bad carno then

[strong crypt]

if u have two ceras 1 waste their stamina bar tracking 1 keep 60%

it is really doable

[elfin night]

Mfw mud exists

[strong crypt]

yes it does but now we are getting really spesific

so if we asume carno is one of the better players he uses road and mud sure. but if we then say cerato is better players carno would never win ever

[elfin night]

Yeah, not using highly advantageous game mechanics with no drawbacks is a negative

Obvio

[strong crypt]

okay but then i can say a cerato easily beat 2 carnos alone

i do NOT think carno should be stronger than CERATO in a fight.

However I DO THINK carno should be less WEAK

also I DO THINK diablo is way overpowerd for its weight class

Maia tenon is balanced

[regal valve]

Yeah Dibble is a bit overtuned atm, wonder if Allo will be able to win in a fight against a Dibble, when it eventually comes out

[strong crypt]

i do not think so not alone atleast

but it feels like you misunderstand me valiant and rex i do not think carno should be stronger than tenon or cerato it should still be weaker

Also because RN killing babies as a Carno doesn't feel great. u get no sense of achivement

[elfin night]

Depends on pin math ngl

[strong crypt]

for

playables now in the game it is overtuned

[elfin night]

Or allo maneuverability

[strong crypt]

do we know any stats about allo yet?

the fact that dibble 1 combo 1.3k health is so insane

[elfin night]

Some of them

[strong crypt]

what is allo HP in legacy?

[elfin night]

But yeah unless you give actual cc resistance to things, ceratopsian meta is going to remain

[elfin night]

2800, but it probably is going to be a bit smaller here

[strong crypt]

because RN i cant see anything beating this dibble execpt apexses tbh

but maybe 2 allo ?? >:)

[elfin night]

2 Allos are gonna eviscerate a single dibble for sure

But I wouldn’t like one of them to be constantly stunlocked

[strong crypt]

but the thing with herbs is they mixpack or mega pack

i so rarly see single dibble unless its newborn

also there is another point if we dont think 1v1 scenario all herbs have bigger pack sizes

so they are stronger solo and in herds RN

But T-rex will oblitirate all mega herds execpt for those with trike in i think

Omg (HYPE)

[dusky surge]

or, more likely, they'll just mixpack with them lol

[strong crypt]

yeah u kinda need to play on servers with rules tbf

mixpacking is so disgusting

[maiden temple]

Herbs mixpack, because the carnis in that mixpack don't

[strong crypt]

maybe adjusting diet food and ai so megapacks cant work

[maiden temple]

Patrol/migration zones shouldn't exist imo, MZ not in the form we have atm at least

[strong crypt]

id like them if they make people move around the map instead of being in 1 spot

[maiden temple]

I was hoping it would be random, completely random (some red zones are obvious like not in the middle of the sea or middle of a volcano). 2-3 MZ at a time spaced out just enough to avoid massive gatherings, keeping in mind draughts and floods which also affect vegetation so herbivores would be more standoffish during draughts when food is scarce, and friendlier during floods when it's plentiful

[strong crypt]

omg tenon player 😠

[maiden temple]

Also food growing randomly around the map isn't a bad idea, I sometimes find a plant or two while making my way to MZ and it makes me happy lol
Lucky find! Last dandelion of the season

[maiden temple]

Prettiest/most versatile/exciting playable ever, how can you not play teno

[strong crypt]

scroll up a bit in chat lala xD

[maiden temple]

I didn't even finish my coffee, that's too much to do

[elfin night]

Carnivore players trying not to pull out the victim card when comparing themselves to herbivores challenge (impossible)

[slim dragon]

But omni stands NO CHANCE in a 1v1 against a trike ! clearly the herbivores are overpowered !

[regal valve]

Said noone ever
Or at least, never seriously

[dusky surge]

no its been said

[elfin night]

Strawman argument smh

The problem is that cera can’t do anything against trike or stego bruh

And omni struggles so hard against teno

Also pachy, hypsi, dryo and maia do not exist

And historically maia was super op

No carnivore has ever been op

[slim dragon]

You wish

[elfin night]

Wait really?

Lmao

[dusky surge]

lol yes

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-head-spin-crazy-gif-24003231

Insanity

+5 years later and the tailrider utahs are still around

[thorn mountain]

@simple temple for one trike is not meant to be a creature you grow in a single session you are meant to grow it in like a week. It makes it feel earned, the struggle of growing a powerful creature when you are fodder for most of your life. Also adding rules would not work as the amount of servers officials have will never be good if you want rules play unofficials, we know the devs are working on a mechanic to combat mixing. Decreasing overall growthtimes imo is kinda silly. You used to be able to grow things stupidly quickly back when they did not increase growth times and if you are having issues play a server with 3X growth like dinoden still gives survival but its not insta grow. And sandbox yeah maybe that would be cool but progression would be better IMO.

yap spree

[regal valve]

To be fair, Pachy and Dryo are pretty rare nowdays (especially Dryo)

[elfin night]

They are herbivores to take into account regardless

[regal valve]

eeh, if they were there

[elfin night]

I agree that for a while stego and now trike don’t really have any carnivore equal and that’s been a very long situation

But overall carnivores have always been more interesting and solid picks across the boards

[regal valve]

It litteraly was bro

[elfin night]

And historically they have always given the most balance problems not just in evrima, but the isle as a whole

[dusky surge]

ive seen more dryos as of late than pachy

[elfin night]

Ik, I was comparing it to the carnivore situation

Maia is the only herbivore to ever need such emergency nerfs early on

[regal valve]

Maia is in a good spot now tho 🙂

[elfin night]

Meanwhile carno, dilo, deino, cera for over a year, omni (twice that I can recall tho) are all cases of carnivores reigning over everyone

I agree with maia being good now

[dusky surge]

i like current maia

stance management feels relevant

its honestly one of the most skilled animals in the game to play

[slim dragon]

The difference when a herbivore is OP compared to when a carnivore is OP is that in the case of a herbivore you cannot kill it
In the case of a carnivore there is no point in playing as anything else because you're guaranteed to die to it

[elfin night]

True…

[regal valve]

I mean, when Maia was op you were almost guaranteed to die to it (unless you were a Carno or on a rock ig)

[deft breach]

Yea that may be true but it makes up for it with its healthpool. A omnis is for 90% herbies 2 hit. While an omni has to hit you what 90 times?

[slim dragon]

An omni dies in 2 hits when it's trying to kill things above 3x its size, which is completely fair

[deft breach]

you cant stun a glasscanon like any other dino

[slim dragon]

Why not ?

[deft breach]

bc if you do the dino will be dead on long therm

bc its unplayable XD

[slim dragon]

The omni population seems to be doing fine

[deft breach]

wait if they nerf it any more its dead

[slim dragon]

It's not unplayable when it's

1. Never forced to engage with things that can instakill it
2. Has extreme dodging capabilities

[deft breach]

ok like what

dibble, teno, maja also a good galli trike

are there anmy more?

so almost 90% of all herbies XD

ok i stop now

[regal valve]

I would agree on point 2 if desyncing and questionable hitboxes weren't almost constant

[slim dragon]

Galli doesn't kill omni in 2 hits
Omni, however, kills galli in a single pounce
All of the other herbis mentioned are over 3x its size

[deft breach]

im gona fight from now on Ceras Carnos and so on XD

[deft breach]

not anymore

ok pass the galli

hypsie and gali are pray for omni

[slim dragon]

wdym not anymore ? Yes it still does

[deft breach]

rly ok

thought got buffed to 650kg

[slim dragon]

No it got buffed only to 490kg
But galli has a special exception that allows it to be pinned by smaller dinos

[regal valve]

Galli was buffed to 490 kg iirc but it's still pinnable by Omni

[deft breach]

poor gallis XD

but all others can 1 or 2 shot you ^^

[regal valve]

They can run away, they asked for it

[deft breach]

with stun lik this its rly 1 shot

[slim dragon]

Yes, because they're much bigger than omni

[deft breach]

yea i understand an all

but that makes playing omni 200% harder than any dino thats what im about ^^

[slim dragon]

Omni is not that hard lol

[deft breach]

just try it 1 or 2 times youll see ^^ ❤️

[cosmic pelican]

Galli does 80dmg per kick what 🥀

[slim dragon]

I've been playing omni a lot

[cosmic pelican]

How is that killing a 450kg animal

In 2 hits

[slim dragon]

If you want something hard try playing pachy

[deft breach]

never played it, its so hard?

it runns fast but atacks slow

[regal valve]

a bit, yes

[slim dragon]

There's a reason why you never see any

It's very bad

[deft breach]

only in sanctuaries XD

killing babies

[slim dragon]

That's one of the 2 things pachy is good at, the other being mixpacking

[deft breach]

can i show you smth in video and streams ^^

i post it now

🙂

[slim dragon]

What about it ?

[deft breach]

the disconect at landing XD

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102619485334143006/1362501758978363484/636EFC1.MP4?ex=68677ae5&is=68662965&hm=4ba80092a48eb94bffebb5b0190d12c0eb052ef4984e3b85fdcfffbe577c6f86& Average solo pachy experience (you cant even attack back once a single omni pounces you)

[deft breach]

noway! you cant attack when pounced???

[eager saddle]

Tbf you asked for it going there. You KNOW how often we see raptor packs there

[cosmic pelican]

"Omni is weak"

[cosmic pelican]

My bad for following my own migration 🥀

[deft breach]

XD

[eager saddle]

Should be. Who follows migration these days

Just respawn patrol zone

[deft breach]

yea but be realistic, you fought 3

a pachy is no steg ^^

[eager saddle]

4

[deft breach]

oh thx

[eager saddle]

Yeah, one of them can actually defend itself

[cosmic pelican]

Well yeah but I couldnt run, couldnt fight

[eager saddle]

^

[cosmic pelican]

Pachy is almost 6 whole kilometers per hour slower than omni

[deft breach]

yea thats not cool but happenes all so often

[lethal shale]

Pachy should be 44kmh and 42 when holding headbutt fr

[slim dragon]

A single omni would've been enough honestly
Once you've been pounced, it's troover

[deft breach]

meh idt so

only if any tree cliff is 50+m away

[cosmic pelican]

Honestly yeah lol
If youre pounced by 1 omni your life literally depends on bucking rng, and if you pull the shorter end of the stick, youll die even if you started bucking instantly

[slim dragon]

It absolutely is
Omni can kill pachy with raw damage pounce in mere seconds

[slim dragon]

Pachy cannot spinrt when pounced, so it cannot reach a tree of cliff
Also the omni can reposition on its back to avoid getting scrapped off

[deft breach]

what got rly ugl is the backpounce of omni, almost not able to loose it

[eager saddle]

Pachy has needed a buff for ages

But it’s hard to buff it and not makenit oppressive af

[cosmic pelican]

Pachy is locked to pretty much Z walking once pounced, so even if a tree is like 10 meters away it wont have time to get to it

[lethal shale]

And still have a good 40% stamina left btw

I killed one in 24 seconds

[deft breach]

is that also new? had it today with a 30% carno could only walk

[slim dragon]

Relatively new

[deft breach]

feels like a bad pachy

[lethal shale]

Sped up bc it’s funny

[deft breach]

XD

[lethal shale]

No? That pachy did the only thing it could do in that situation

[deft breach]

you on nicks server?

[slim dragon]

Yes it did the mistake of trying to use the mechanic supposed to counter pounce

[lethal shale]

Yeah but I don’t wanna go around doing 1v1s to prove my point

[deft breach]

yea yea np

can you tell me its name

i search and search also have steam conected XD

[lethal shale]

The server name?

[deft breach]

yea

[lethal shale]

EUOmni

[deft breach]

3

❤️

[plush palm]

you guys are okay that pachy should be downed by a sigle utha cuz bro that's so dumn that a 65% 370Kg grow utha can down a 100% growth Utha but a pachy that is only 500Kg cannot be down by a 450Kg full grown utha

[potent fox]

@wanton current the benefit of fruits giving fairly low amount of food is that they are for small species so there is so competetion between like a trike and a dyro. but plants need to give more food somehow bc rn its not even enough for 1 trike and it makes them eat the fruits anyway bc they need to minmax so much

[wanton current]

Yea I don't disagree with u there. I do believe plants should give more food. But from my experience, I dont see too many small dinos around. My suggestion was more so for larger dinos, even tho like...idc if the fruits and all dont give much more diet as they do now. Just something a bit more beneficial since I think areas with fruits just lying around are prone to glitch out.

I could be wrong tho with that. But it would give larger dinos a reason to eat the fruit as well.

[potent fox]

je small herbis are sadly unpopular. it should be possible to easily get enough food as herbi if u take risks but rn you can neither get enough nor do you have a reason to take any risks with how patrol zones work

[wanton current]

yup.

[elfin night]

“Herbivores are so op right now”

And meanwhile cera and dilo running around rampaging everything in sp or west rail

[neon willow]

Honestly I think they should tweak herbivore diets some. It'd be more interesting if some herbivores had specialized diets. For example, maybe hypsi is a frugivore and it gets bonus food/diet from eating fruit. Or maybe teno is a rooter (like pigs) and gets extra diet/food from roots. Etc

[wanton current]

That would also be very interesting. I like that idea.

[maiden temple]

Grazing should always be a thing, it makes no sense to starve while standing on fresh grass

Having no diets should go back to giving negative stats, and that's enough to stop what you want stopped @sweet estuary

Or grass could drain your diets, either way better than no grazing

[neon willow]

@soft mantle I'm willing to bet the rex in that video didn't have all its sounds in and tweaked correctly yet (there's a reason they aren't letting players spawn as rex yet - it's not done)

[hasty coyote]

Omnis, troos, Galis, and hypsis have pin vulnerability so they get pinned by things smaller, but why that is idk.

But pachy getting insta pinned is just how you kill a playable that’s already on life support. Because how do you play against that as a pachy? If you alt attack, you won’t make enough distance during the omni’s stun immunity, so it lands a pounce and you die. If you ram, you have to first actually hit the ram or die, then you have to hope you got leg fracture or you still die because they catch up during stun immunity and pin to kill you. Omnis have enough stam and damage to kill a pachy with pin through body or head fracture. Not to mention you have to pray that your ram even registers (which it won’t 60% of the time).

[hasty coyote]

Also it’s pretty simple to buff pachy without making it oppressive.
1: keep its speed below dryo and Omni. Immediately it’s no longer oppressive to the small tiers since they can just avoid it.
2: nerf leg fracture so it isn’t a death sentence for larger Dinos. Namely, make it not disable alt attacks and most defensive attacks. Now larger dinos don’t just get soloed or duoed by pachies with 0 counterplay,

And suddenly, you can do whatever you want to buff pachy (within reason) and it won’t be a problem.

[plush palm]

well, didnt played pachy that much so yeah, with your point of view that's pretty logic

[hasty coyote]

imo the better option for your issue is to just remove omni and troo's pin vulnerability. Gali kinda needs to get pinned or it will just bully omnis, and hypsi is so small theres practically nothing that can't pin it.

[golden ember]

Apparently its 13,5 ton

[ivory abyss]

Crazy

3.5 ton growth

[golden ember]

full grown deino rn is 8 tons

so its like 70% more growth

[carmine tundra]

apologies pie if you come here, i somehow pinged you instead of someone else

[strong crypt]

pachy dont get p inned by 1 raptor

also pachy is alot stronger than 1 raptor

[hasty coyote]

No it doesn’t, they were saying that pachy should get pinned because smaller omnis can pin bigger ones, so it makes sense for them to pin pachy.

Though there was a brief time when they did, and it was awful.

[hasty coyote]

How so?

[dusky surge]

honestly id say the raptor is way stronger

[strong crypt]

If you want i can go pachy on EUomni we could play a bit and u can show u

its really hard to type how

not alot stronger tho

also with pachy its kinda funn but you can 1v1 a carno if u get head fracture on it

but the fracture thingy is a bit inconsistent

Can we do that @hasty coyote

[hasty coyote]

Because genuinely I only see 3 ways that pachy is stronger: leg fracture, stuns, and hp. Its stuns are better, but Omni also slows down targets and has pin+grapple so it is not far behind. The hp difference is minimal. Leg fracture is def op, but it doesn’t matter when the Dino as a whole is hot garbage. Everything else pachy is miles behind.

Pachy self stuns on miss, self stuns on hit, has an attack lock between all attacks, has very poor speed, has worse agility, deals far less damage, and it’s attack is riddled with so many bugs that it’s more common to have your attack not register than it is to have it actually function.

[dusky surge]

Raptor has damage advantage, bleed, speed advantage, agility advantage, the ability to just slow a pachy down to trot, etc

[strong crypt]

raptor gets heavily out dmged if not pounce

and thats not an argument its just facts

not to sound rude but i think you dont really know the controls of the pachy

[dusky surge]

i dont think you know the controls of the raptor if you think it does less damage lol

[hasty coyote]

I’m assuming EUomni is a free admin server in the eu, so I’m probably not going to have good ping. Plus I ain’t the best Omni tbh. But I’m willing to hop on for a bit and show you the core issues I can with pachy.

[strong crypt]

MR.rex

let us go on EUomni. if u are EU

im telling you i can still show u padex

we dont have to fight

its not to prove anyone better or worse its just to make a point about this dino

[hasty coyote]

Pounce deals 1000 damage from full stam to 0 if you do damage pounce, you get bucked off after dealing ~250 to pachy. So it’s 2 pounces to kill a pachy, meanwhile the pachy needs to hit 4 charged rams.

[dusky surge]

^

pachy does crazy low damage tbh, but it got like, 3 damage nerfs over its time being in game

it went from 350 to like, 80 lol

[strong crypt]

PLS JOIN THE SERVER YOU WILL NEVER GET A 1000dmg pounce on me ever

[hasty coyote]

Nah you won’t because that’s how bucking works. You still only need 2 pounces with bucking tho.

Honestly if you get screwed by rng, it may only take 1 pounce to kill lmao.

[strong crypt]

yes but im telling you wont get 2 pounces also i can use trees i mean if i get caught in the middle of the field with no terrain

that is a skill issue

because as a herbivore you do pick ur fight places

im telling you pachy is not weaker and im willing to prove it

[hasty coyote]

I’m on the server if you wanted to show me

[strong crypt]

awesome

[dusky surge]

as a raptor you pick your fights better

because you're actually fast enough to do so

if a raptor wants to hunt a pachy, the pachy has to fight, it doesn't get to pick

[strong crypt]

you can always stay near trees and rocks as pachy

[dusky surge]

sucks that most of pachy's MZs are in the open huh

[strong crypt]

still trees and rocks everywhere

there is 1 bugg where omni can be straight on back RN

and not fall off which should be fixed

[crystal stream]

Everyone look at my new post

Execpt for Mr Rex because I already know he’s disagree

[dusky surge]

i dont even know what you want lol

like i literally do not know what you're suggesting

[crystal stream]

A new charge system for Carno

[dusky surge]

yes but like

[crystal stream]

And slight weight buff

I’m trying to get the best of both worlds here lol

[dusky surge]

i mean what exactly does the reworked charge even do because all im seeing is it's like maia, dibble and trike all at the same time and also is a charge but is also a headbutt

and it might hypothetically work against bigger targets

[crystal stream]

Giving it good small game hunter kit while also being somewhat of a good mid teir

[dusky surge]

its already a good midtier tho this is what i dont get

like we're acting like its a bad midtier but it really isnt

[crystal stream]

It is compared to others like allo or cera it is

[dusky surge]

no?

like allo isn't even in

and cerato is overpowered and shouldn't be used as the metric for how a midtier "should be"

[crystal stream]

Carno will still be good at hunting small teir but also have the ability to somewhat take on things a lil bigger

[crystal stream]

It’s a mid teir

[dusky surge]

doesnt change the fact it's overpowered lol

[crystal stream]

Cera a op small to mid teir so its mid teir

lol

[dusky surge]

using a well balanced animal like carno and comparing it to an overpowered animal like cera to say carno is bad is wild

[dusky surge]

when did i say it wasnt a midtier

????

[crystal stream]

Idk you type to fast can’t read it all

Still you havnt given me a reason of why they shouldn’t give Carno the kit I think it’s the perfect balance

Between lame small game hunter and bad ahh Dino

lol

[dusky surge]

if you dont like small game hunters then just dont play carno??

i think allo would be more your speed when that's out

honestly carno is in one of the best balanced state it has ever been, but because cera is so insanely overpowered, everyone obviously compares carno, who looks weak by comparison (obviously)

[crystal stream]

But I like Carno because I like how it plays and it’s skill ceiling I probably have more hours on Carno than a lot of people

[dusky surge]

I like carno because I like how it plays too

[crystal stream]

We just have different play styles

[dusky surge]

I like how it plays more than you do clearly because you don't like the fact that it plays like a small game hunter

I find endless joy in bulldozing a juvi or nuking an omni

[crystal stream]

U like to pick on small things and I like to go for big things

[crystal stream]

I hunt Mia’s and tenos nobody said you have to be a small game hunter to enjoy Carno

[dusky surge]

Sure, play however you want

But don't complain when it doesn't perfectly complete that role you personally go out of your way to do

[crystal stream]

You act like I’m the only person

[dusky surge]

Like I can try to kill a stego as a herrera

It won't end great but I can play that way freely

[crystal stream]

It’s not like I’m asking for a miracle

[dusky surge]

You have the agency to play however you want, but each animal has a preferred style of survival

[crystal stream]

Its a simple change that will bring nothing but good

[dusky surge]

That's heavily debatable

[crystal stream]

Unless you want to keep Carno in it’s restricted state than so be it

[dusky surge]

If it causes certain animals like cerato to go back to getting curbstomped constantly, then it doesn't bring nothing but good

[crystal stream]

Not with its corpse and charge buff it won’t lol

[crystal stream]

You know the mechanics it’s supposed to use

[dusky surge]

I just don't think it's any more restricted than other animals in the game

It's like saying deino is in a restricted state because it's bad on land, or herrera is in a restricted state because it sucks in the open

[crystal stream]

Even before it had charge buff it could still kill Cera

[crystal stream]

Deino is a whole different story Carno is way different

Same with herra

Carno isn’t restricted in the same way they are

[dusky surge]

Not every animal should be good at everything, especially hyperspecialised animals like carno, deino or herrera

Carno is the king of plains, insanely high speeds, good stamina, but poor turn radius and godawful swim speed
Deino is the king of water, fastest swimspeed in the game and the power to grab and drown, but awful land movement
Herrera is the king of forests, exceptional damage and bleed, but only from a high place like a tree

Each of these animals are hyperspecialised to an environment

[crystal stream]

You keep comparing deino to Carno like there on the same wavelength deino is a water based animal that shouldn’t have any wiggle room and even tho herra is supposed to be a tree climber it is more than capable to jump down and pick a fight with animals its size while Carno struggles for no reason

[dusky surge]

A dryo can quite easily beat the hell out of a herrera on the ground

IDK what you mean

[crystal stream]

Lol not if the herra has any sort of a brain

If you stand there and tank alts then thats ur fault you died lol

Otherwise dryos lil pecks ain’t doing nothing

[dusky surge]

dryo's pecks are nearly as strong as herrera's bites lol

[crystal stream]

My point still stands though Carno is a animal that’s still good at hunting small game but also has some sort of wiggle room

[crystal stream]

Hahaha

Fr

Still if you had a herra 1v1 a dryo I’m pretty sure the herra is winning just to be sure tho I’m going to test that with my freind lol

Actually do you want to help test some stuff

[crystal stream]

We can be testing buddies

Where we go test balance and matchups

[strong crypt]

Herbis are OP

[crystal stream]

Please

[thorn mountain]

no

[crystal stream]

Crazy take but ok

[thorn mountain]

its just nothing is there to fight them

[strong crypt]

oh mb ur right they are weak just nothing in the game can beat them

[thorn mountain]

we get apexes and midtiers and the largest land carnivore we have is a small tier

[crystal stream]

300 dmg teno kick

[strong crypt]

its more

if u are good 1 tenon kick=1 hs kick =600DMG

[crystal stream]

Very balanced game

[strong crypt]

diblle right now does 1300dmg with 1 combo u cannot dodge but you have to know the combo

i think cerato being as it is right now is good because atleast it can fight tenon 1 on 1 and have a decently fair matchup

[crystal stream]

Don’t worry Rex will come in and fix everything up

[crystal stream]

Yeah

[strong crypt]

omg ill hop on the carno train btw

[crystal stream]

Thank you like my post please I need a army lol

Nah but I rlly think herbies are insane right now and people like to say it’s because we don’t have anything strong but wtf is a allo going to do against a 1300 dmg combo on 1 hit

Maybe cc reduce

Idk unless they make those guys broken to

[dusky surge]

Not be directly in front of a dibble lol

Just like how ceras deal with dibbles

[crystal stream]

Ceras are agile allo and larger arnt as agile

[crystal stream]

Also easier said than done when it can go whatever direction it wants

I think Mia’s perfect

[dusky surge]

allo has a pounce and more damage and more health to compensate

[crystal stream]

Very true but 1300 dmg combo health?

[dusky surge]

given that omni can do 1000 damage in a single pounce, i think allo will be fine

[crystal stream]

Like I said maybe cc reduce tho

[dusky surge]

also 2 allos will just grapple a dibble and done

allo does not need that much CC resist lol

it has the speed advantage, it should manage its movement appropriately

[crystal stream]

lol it definitely needs it

[hasty coyote]

maia is like borderline op imo, because a good maia will run down ceras and tenos with little counterplay.

[dusky surge]

why?

[crystal stream]

It definitely needs it

[dusky surge]

again, why?

saying it needs it doesn't make it need it

[crystal stream]

Because it needs it

[dusky surge]

oh, so it doesnt

got it

[crystal stream]

No it does

[crystal stream]

I think you read wrong I said it need it

[keen plover]

This is so mindless

[dusky surge]

i think i broke him

[crystal stream]

I think you misspelled genius

[hasty coyote]

the 1300 combo is heavy attack + heashot spar + headshot thrash (~1550 total), so it does take some percision and requires the target to have its head very close to the diablo's face (aka where you DONT want it to be)

[crystal stream]

I’m not broken until I say current carnos fun

[crystal stream]

Thanks for the clarification

Anyway 1550 dmg combo on dibble

[strong crypt]

however i did realize a new combo where i was able to knockdown then heavy head thrash into a 1shot so all u actually need is body knockdown on dibble and some skill

[crystal stream]

Skill on dibble is un heard of

[strong crypt]

to be fair most dibbles i know just alt spam and die xS

in survival

[crystal stream]

lol true

[strong crypt]

but if im not incorrect 1 shot of animals in mid tier sizes usually only happend by apexses not other mid tiers

in legacy

[keen plover]

Diablo 1 shot cerato in legacy pretty much. You had to sit

[strong crypt]

ah okey but it was the bleed right

[keen plover]

Yes

[strong crypt]

was it 1 body hit?

[keen plover]

If you stood still or sat you'd live iirc

But a diablo wasn't going to let that happen lol

[strong crypt]

intressting

well then maybe i will have to say this instead. having a 100-0 one shot on a dino that takes 3hours to grow like carno from a dibble of not apex size is not a funny experience for carno or cerato

[hasty coyote]

imo the issue is with the knockdown duration allowing a spar AND a thrash, if it was just one or you would only get like half of the thrash it would be fine imo.

and then theres trike's thrash just dealing INSANE damage

[keen plover]

This I can agree with. Although I have no sympathy with how cracked Cerato is as well. You definitely don't need that high damage in the Carno matchup.

But honestly that damage will come in handy whenever allo drops.

[strong crypt]

yes that is trure bird howeveer it has not dropped and wont for another year or smth maybe so untill then this change kinda unbalances gameplay a bit

[hasty coyote]

yeah we shall have to see how allo ends up being, if diablo needs that damage to kill an allo then... guess you arent going anywhere near it with a cera or carno anymore

[keen plover]

tbf rex is also dropping next. It has stages where it is "allo sized". So diablo needs that power soon

[strong crypt]

Yes rex will be trike level which means dont fight it for dibble

[keen plover]

They still need to grow though.

[strong crypt]

yep and tbh as dibble is now when rex is allos size what weight is that?

anyway with a 1.3k dmg per attack i don ever see allo winning 1v1 but dibble ive heard is supposed to be a little duellist

[dusky surge]

all ceratopsians are designed as 1v1 duelists tbh

2 allos will probably screw over a dibble unless it uses literally every tool it can to not die

[strong crypt]

yep i think they are just way overtuned

[keen plover]

Honestly imo nothing in diablos size range should be pulling up for a 1 v 1 if they're a good diablo. I think you should have to ambush it to start the fight

[dusky surge]

nah, they have a clear weakness, their ability to handle groups is little to none

and vulnerability to ambush

a competent group will very much destroy most average ceratopsians

[crystal stream]

Mr Rex you still havnt answered me are you down for some Carno gameplay with me someday 😁😁

[keen plover]

They're also not that quick all things considered. You're forced into taking fights

So makes sense that you can actually fend things off well

[hasty coyote]

tbf they also arent that slow, they have a lesser speed difference between them and cera/teno than pachy does with dilo (and pachy gets face tanked by dilo)

[dusky surge]

poor pachy

[golden coral]

@hasty coyoteHow did the pachy/omni testing go?

[dusky surge]

pachy is kind of designed as a pseudo-ceratopsian, but with very little of the upsides they get

[dusky surge]

perhaps

[hasty coyote]

they are a solid pachy, and it appears they knew how to abuse the bugs of pachy, meanwhile I don't apparently (plus I got ping diffed). Also the hitbox still existing after the attack has gotten worse, it now lasts until the whole animation is complete (I learned this by pouncing a recovering pachy and getting my legs broken). Plus I learned omni has a bug where you consistently just get stuck on the target on your side when you get scraped off (you're just standing still for the target, like an inverse ghost hit).

Other than that, pachy can deal with carnos and dilos if you play perfectly and they make mistakes (or leg fracture them through their face), otherwise you kinda just die.

[strong crypt]

well also think about playables right. 90% of herbs play tenon, dibble, trike, stego

how can you hunt it when all these playables are so much stronger than you also they ALWAYS Herd. now cera and carno u can see alone but dibble rarely ever see one alone and even if it was alone i cannot see 2 ceras beating me on a dibble

[dusky surge]

compared to carnis who basically play ceratosaurus and nothing else, that's a pretty good spread

also pachy and dryo suck

although i see a lot more hypsis now that the climbing is done, which is nice

[strong crypt]

yeah you know why its cerato and nothing else

because nothing else can kill herbivores

[golden coral]

So, pachy is actually capable in 1v1 vs omni then? Aside from bugs one way or another, that is

[strong crypt]

it really is yes

[dusky surge]

not only is that untrue, but very much misrepresenting the situation

people play cera not because it is the "only one who can do it", but rather because it is the only one who can do it with relative ease on top of everything else it has going for it

[strong crypt]

i woudlnt say killing a tenon as cerato is easy

[dusky surge]

its pretty easy ngl

i dont know how you dont find it easy

bait, bite, vomit, bite again, wait for vomit cooldown, repeat

[hasty coyote]

if you land the first hit with pachy you are at a major advantage, and if you can combo it into a leg/head fracture, you win. If the omni is able to land a pounce, you die. Still really depends on how good each player is, and I'm pretty mid at omni so I died a lot. The issue is still that the pachy has to outplay the omni to win, when it should be the opposite imo

[strong crypt]

i thing most tenon players are really bad

[dusky surge]

i think most cera players are even worse lol

but animal is SO easy

genuinely i cant stand playing it it has nothing going to it

[strong crypt]

yeah omni pounce win pachy knockdown wins

well standing in a corner sppamming rmb isnt that hard compared to dodging that timer so bad vs bad cera lose avrage vs avrage player id say its even

[hasty coyote]

plus thats all considering your hits register (which mine never do as pachy for whatever reason)

[strong crypt]

it is a bit iffy with pachy

[dusky surge]

yea ping problems make matchups tough ESPECIALLY with pachy/raptor fights

[strong crypt]

but remember that work both ways

raptor will get knockdown without being close to you then hit with a leg fracture

[hasty coyote]

yeah I did get hit from like 10 feet away at one point lol

[strong crypt]

exactly xD

[strong crypt]

what makes you think this?

[hasty coyote]

Imo best solution with that matchup is to make it not decided on the first hit.

Aka, buff pachy, nerf fractures, make bucking actually useful. Suddenly pachy becomes much more fun to fight as and against.

[dusky surge]

the animal is exceptionally easy with a low skill floor and ceiling compared to tenonto who has a kit that has been praised for being one of the most mechanically perfect kits in terms of depth since it was released

[strong crypt]

what makes it easy?

i would argue from survival its way harder than any herb since graze and MZ working for them

[dusky surge]

basically no stam management on charge bite, high burst damage, long stun animations without needing to use a special ability, high agility with moderate speed, heavy resilience in terms of both bleed and health resistance, exceptionally easy to maintain diets, exceptionally easy to find food, incredible mutation synergy, high swim speed and stamina, fast alt-bites, stagger resist to avoid potential kill combos

there's more but that's what i can immediately think of

[keen plover]

I don't think I've ever starved on Cerato tbh. But tbf you literally can't starve as a herbi. They're both very easy to grow

[strong crypt]

exactly so everything to mention with food i think herb aka tenon will always do better since it litrally cant starve not possible

high burst dmg 1 kick and tenon gets hs kick thats 600 compared to ceratos 300 if he has Full charge but and hits ur body not tail

hs would be 450 which is still lower

swim speed why would you ever fight a cerato in the water since uy are defending u are choosing the spot where to fight

you have 1500 hp compared to ceratos 1300

and this is just math thingy imagine he lands one kick put you to orange in the begining of the fight now ur dmg is going down aswell on your bites as cerato

I will need to practice more TENON to feel 100% sure about this matchup but im pretty sure about it from cerato stand point

[vale brook]

i mean, thats why theres so many animals planned to begin with, no?

even if carno does not fufill the niche you want, one of the animals will (likely allo based on what most of the "buff carno!" people want)

[crystal stream]

But Carno needs it not allo

[vale brook]

i dont like the idea of trying to change an animal with a set niche to expand outside of it because not only is the animal handpicked for that niche and centered around it, but also because it would potentially start to diminish other animals intended roles within the island

[keen plover]

600 to the head???? from 1 kick??

[crystal stream]

It’s not changing it’s neich

[vale brook]

making it fundementally easier at something it is supposed to struggle at far more than other animals is changing its niche

[crystal stream]

It’s a add on to make it more flexible it’s still a small game hunter

[vale brook]

like fundementally, that is what happens

[crystal stream]

The whole neich thing is a construct of how you play and what a animal can do

[crystal stream]

Doesn’t have to be forced and the fact that you think that a playable should be forced to it’s Neich says a lot sounds very fun and engaging

[dusky surge]

"it's not changing its niche as a small game hunter, its changing the prey range of carno to be larger than small game"

lmao

[dusky surge]

cerato has 2600HP near a body, and teno's kick does less on headshot than a fully charged bite

[crystal stream]

It’s still a small game hunter lmao

Just with more range

Lmao

[dusky surge]

but that applies to... every dinosaur

[crystal stream]

Does it

[dusky surge]

besides like, idk, deino

[crystal stream]

Does it

[dusky surge]

yes lol

[crystal stream]

But does it

[dusky surge]

i assume that means you agree with me

[crystal stream]

What do you mean don’t put words in my mouth

Wait

What

What do you mean it applies to every dinosaur

[dusky surge]

i was going to explain but we're past that phase

[keen plover]

imo at this point. Cerato has so many tools to win in the carno matchup (can even block out charge on a body) that I think it should be a lot closer off bodies. It's kind of lame having a creature be untouchable purely for existing. Regardless of skill

[dusky surge]

i'll just say "it does" and it'll be good enough

[crystal stream]

Cera can’t catch small things like Carno can

Carno is a way better small game hunter

Not to mention other unique aspects

Making Carno a lil better at taking on larger targets will not hurt it

[dusky surge]

Never said it’d hurt carno

[crystal stream]

Then why not want the change

To make Carno great again

lol

Carno will have everything in its kit so you can hunt small things and I’ll go fight things like teno and Mia and probably still die it’s a win win situation

[crystal stream]

The perfect balance

[dusky surge]

Because Carno isn’t the only thing that exists

It could very much hurt other creatures

[crystal stream]

Maybe if they suck

[crystal stream]

Actually I don’t see how this hurts any other playable

[vale brook]

yarg, i think cerato should get a pretty hefty nerf when away from bodies

but i think its odd how people have issue with cerato being far harder for carno near bodies considering thats... everything cerato is supposed to do

which makes me think people dont actually want 'corpse bully cera' like they say they do when they ask for nerfs, they just want carno to dominate cerato again lol

because anyone who actually wants corpse bully cerato instead of "massive generalist with advantages both with and without bodies" can see that cerato finally actually becoming more than 'harhar i have extra health" near bodies is a net positive for moving it closer to its niche

really the only thing cerato needs imo is the values of its previous HT 'nerfs' adjusted

instant slow on charge bite, revert the 'insta charge'

and possible stamina drain on charge bite away from bodies

[elfin night]

Rex is gonna be so op guys

Can kill my cera in one hit

[slim dragon]

I'm like 90% certain ceras will actually be more of a threat to rex than the other way around if it doesn't get nerfed

[elfin night]

Fg rex getting killed by ceras would be such a sad thing to watch

And I still remember when people said after the patch that cera would be useless…

Cuz speed nerf after holding the charge bite for a century

[strong crypt]

why are you fighting a cerato on a body? and a body kick if you are good is guarranted HS kick which is more than fully charged bite

[dusky surge]

headshot charge bite > headshot kick

[strong crypt]

yes but you forget if u get hs kick thats 2 hs kick thats 800dmg

because of cc duration

like dibble dont have 1300 dmg it has 3 instances that are undodgable after first hit that deals a total of 1300 dmg

[slim dragon]

Same could be said with cera's charged bite...

It has CC too

[strong crypt]

it does not have cc no and does not guarrante other bites

[dusky surge]

vomit is CC

[strong crypt]

ýes but 1 bite will not give you vommit vs a tenon

you need multiple instanses for that to work

[dusky surge]

Depends

If the tenonto hasn't been actively filling their stomachs, one charge bite is reallly all you need

[strong crypt]

yes this is true

but cera wont know when you puke so follow up will be harder

i do see tenon players being able to lose to cera im training it a bit myself to understand more of it

but generally thoughts on that matchup on pvp servers is tenon win if they are both good

(Not near body)

[elfin night]

teno will lose every single time if it goes aggressive against a cera

and vice versa

[strong crypt]

that is not true

[elfin night]

it's such a mind numbingly passive matchup

[strong crypt]

i heard tenon can be agressor

[elfin night]

it is absolutely true, whoever tries to be proactive is at a disadvantage

[strong crypt]

also if cera is defensive on body it probably wins

[elfin night]

cera defesive anywhere will simply win

because teno's front is much more exposed than the rear, and you cannot walk or run backwards

[strong crypt]

tenon has a very strong attack and really high turn rate

very strong front attack and kick attack

[elfin night]

So does cera

[dusky surge]

if the teno is being aggro solo, its being a fool

[elfin night]

And the claw attack cannot be done while running and gets brutally outmatched by charged bite

[elfin night]

^

[strong crypt]

so let go of shitft and do isnta claw attack

[dusky surge]

ill be real, i LIKE how neither animal is meant to be aggressive and tolerating the other is the best course of action, but cera's strength means it can afford to aggro

[dusky surge]

you'll slow down too much to land it

[strong crypt]

you should try it

[strong crypt]

yes but if you try to dodge me i alt attack you with claws if you try to bite me i turn and kick

both have countermessures but cera does not easily beat tenon its a skill matchup that in my opinion is more easily played for tenon

[elfin night]

Nah you lose

[strong crypt]

i mean most tenons i see uses tail slam as main ability

it would be like using only RMB on cera

if this is you then maybe take a look at your gameplay instead of complaining about certain spiecies being to overpowerd

[slim dragon]

Isn't that what all ceras do ?

[strong crypt]

oh my bad lol i meant LMB

because dps is tecnically higher in ceras LMB with its bite attack speed but its clearly worse than using RMB

Tail slam is a tool but the kick is alot better than tail slam in general, and tail slam should only be used in certain situations

[elfin night]

Nah a lot of them rely mostly on kicks

They know which attack is objectively better

[strong crypt]

from what ive seen most of them do mostly kicks but way more tail slams then they should last two days i tested a cerato run with a friend who is a really good cerato player. now we were able to kill 4 tenons as 2 ceratos

then another scenario came where there was two tenons and because of desync and shi we couldnt even thouch them because they were better and also laggier to be fair.

now these guys knew their dmg output and as soon as they landed a kick that was a HS kick extra from that kick and 1 combo puts me at 50% hp every attack after that reduces my damage drastically

but the avrage player as i have seen uses tail slam way to much which leads to their deaths since its an easily counterable attack

.
but with tenons kit learnt to full extend it is a very capable herbivorre able to deal with any carnivore in the game

[sweet estuary]

But not being able to starve whatso ever takes away the survival aspect of herbie gameplay. They shouldn’t have a stomach meter at all just diet meter is what ur saying?

[sweet estuary]

Not all animals can graze, maybe make it a option for unofficial to test if its a good idea

[strong crypt]

this makes it super easy for herbivores to survive. they are also stronger in pvp. ive been walking around as a solo dibble fighting anything i can for a day straight (excluding trike) without dying

[strong crypt]

im fine with either removing grazing feature like u suggest or nerfing herbivores pvp potential so herding becomes more important for survival

[slim dragon]

Making herbivores reliant on herds for survival is making them extinct

[strong crypt]

yes i think so aswell so it is tricky

[slim dragon]

Just turn grazin into reverse gastroliths
Instead of filling hunger when you're under a certain%, they give a buff that slows hunger and diet drain for some time

[strong crypt]

i like this. this is good something that makes you really not wanna graze

[slim dragon]

It's the opposite actually
it makes herbivores want to graze all the time so they can keep a good diet and their belly filled

But they also need to find actual plants to eat, because grazing won't fill their hunger

[strong crypt]

ah okey so i misunderstod. i thought it would be good to have graze remove diets but fill your hunger a bit

[strong crypt]

idk about you but for me what makes herbivores unfunn is the fact that people just avoid them because they are so strong compared to realeased carnivores

[sweet estuary]

Thats what im sayin gng!

[slim dragon]

That's because the largest land carnivore rn is 1.3ton, smaller than one of our smallest herbivores
And yet even the big ones can get killed sometime,s they're really not overpowered
Especially when compared to a certain carnivore

[sweet estuary]

I was thinking removing grassing would make herbie vs herbie more frequent since they would need to compete for food, MZ and PZ would be full or life and even carnivores would go if it was one of the only options for herbs

[strong crypt]

maybe but then when for example cerato is able to fight them everybody says nerf

whilst the only one cerato can really fight of them is tenon

[slim dragon]

Yes... because cera isn't supposed to be hunting things over 2x its size

[slim dragon]

Also dibble and maia

[strong crypt]

you cannot kill a dibble or maia if they have hands

[slim dragon]

If it's not possible, then why does it happen ?

[strong crypt]

because dibbles and maias dont have hands

not to trash them but they start up the game see oh a new dinosaur, play it, knows nothing about its kit and dies to a cera player

and to me it is just fact that cerato do not kill maia or dibble as is now unless if you outskill them

[slim dragon]

When people do that they usually pick deino

Or raptor

[strong crypt]

OR DIBBLE OR MAIA OR TRIKE

[slim dragon]

Very rarely

[strong crypt]

i am 100% sure you do not beat a dibble or maia if they know their dinosaur

[slim dragon]

I'm not saying cera can beat a dibble or maia always
But the fact it has a non-negligible chance to do it is an issue

[dusky surge]

thats genuinely all that needs to be done tbh

[strong crypt]

so you want it to be compleatly un doable because to mee that sounds like it would just suck to play maia and have no predators

[slim dragon]

Cera isn't going to be the biggest thing around forever
In fact, rex is around the corner

[strong crypt]

Yes but it is not here

what about cerato what will it be like to play cerato in the future if u cant win vs anything you cant hunt anything because its all faster than you and you can only steal corpses

[slim dragon]

Cera will never not be able to hunt anything
But also that's the point of a scavenger

I don't see how "can't hunt things 2x your size" translates to "can't hunt anything"

[strong crypt]

well raptors do it

[slim dragon]

Magy will probably be among cera's preferred prey items, as it will be one of the rare predators able to stomach one

[strong crypt]

your going from a standpoint that it shouldnt win vs anything bigger but this is not the case in nature and i dont see why it has to be the case in a fictional game

especially when people clearly like it since cera is most of the player base

[slim dragon]

It kinda is the case in nature and it has to be the case in a game that involves balance
Cera is not a big game hunter, period.

[slim dragon]

Oh really ? People like playing the easiest and most overpowered thing around ? Who would have guessed ???

[dusky surge]

cera literally plays itself no wonder people want to play it

[strong crypt]

dibble is way stronger tenon is stronger maia is stronger trike is stronger stego is stronger

[dusky surge]

teno is not stronger lol, and cera can solo basically every one of those, with the hardest being stego

[slim dragon]

But all of them are much harder to grow and play as

[strong crypt]

well as MR.rex think tenon is not stronger which is not true lets say it is. u have dibble trike stego and maia being stronger

and they are not harder to grow

[slim dragon]

Teno and cera are of about equivalent strength

[strong crypt]

since u litrally cant starve you dont have to make stupid desicions

[strong crypt]

it is a skill matchup yes but tenon is a little bit stronger

[dusky surge]

cera is def the stronger one idk what to tell you

[slim dragon]

Cera can hardly starve either
Any AI or corpse leftover from hours ago will do it
While if you rely exclusively on grazing with a herbi it's gonna take you so long you'll die of boredom before you get to adulthood

[strong crypt]

right now AI dont even work but leftovers are camped also dont forget cera is CANNIBAL it eats itself. you have everything in the game trying to kill you

compare that to afk growing a tenon in a forest nobody is in id say every herb in the game is easier to grow

[dusky surge]

afk growing a cera in a forest is equally viable tbh

[strong crypt]

matter of fact as ive been writing this ive just sat and grown a stego to 1 ton without any threats so far

[dusky surge]

get hungry, sniff the air, you'll probably find something

[strong crypt]

AI is broken but its temporary

get a sniff and 50% of the time sombody is there and if u are not carefull u die due to sombody being there

[dusky surge]

idk what this proves you really aren't that strong lol

[strong crypt]

ik xD just sending it because its a funn point that im able to grow this and have discussions on discord

[dusky surge]

you can do that on any dino basically lol

[strong crypt]

but as a cerato i would have to find food scout it for potential enemies and make sure i was alone

you have none of that as a herbivore you just go to your spot eat food and type in discord

[dusky surge]

you can do that as carnivore too i've done it countless times

[strong crypt]

but yeah i dont agree on this since once you reach about 1.3 ton for atleast stego and dibble i know you can fight any carnivore unless if its a pack

[elfin night]

cera is barely any skilled

[strong crypt]

its a basic dinosaur still harder than playing dibble or tenon

or stego

[dusky surge]

it really isnt tbh

i dont think the metric of "being a herbivore" makes it easier

[strong crypt]

im sorry i dont understand this

[elfin night]

nah

[dusky surge]

i find it way easier to grow as cera than any of those

[elfin night]

cera is way easier unless you wanna hunt stegos

[dusky surge]

because cera diets are so goddamn easy to get

[strong crypt]

how can you say that when you just go to MZ or PZ pres Q and get all diets?

[dusky surge]

because i dont even need to go to MZ or PZ as cera

i just hold Q

[strong crypt]

yeah you do not know where they are

you just litrall press Q and the game tells you here will be food that probably nobody will kill you on

cera its like here is food u might die here is food you might die if carno dilo or raptor you die

in order to sustain yourself as a growing cera you need to go to populated places now being that AI is off

this is not the case for herbivores and i dont need to tell you why that would be harder than being on a PZ on some really unpopular spot

[strong crypt]

little off topic but i think its harder to grow a cera than a dibble

[warm flax]

[elfin night]

[strong crypt]

:S

[elfin night]

cera early game is so much easier than dibble's

[strong crypt]

no

[elfin night]

dibbles until they are like 1.5 tons are such free kills bruh

[strong crypt]

cera is same

[elfin night]

not in the slighest

[strong crypt]

tell me what a not grown cera outruns?

[elfin night]

because it is less time and it gains weight and speed super fast

[elfin night]

not grown to what extent

[strong crypt]

im actually not sure its faster to 1.3 ton for cera than dibble being dibble has sanctuary mushrooms

and also always diet food in PZ an MZ

even if they both grow at same grow speed i dont know if 1.3 ton is faster for cera than dibble

[elfin night]

you didnt answer

[strong crypt]

honestly it being below 1000kg

[elfin night]

cera at like 800-900kg (which is like an hour or less potentially) already outruns dibbles, or at the very least outmaneuvers and outswims them

[strong crypt]

well dibbles arent trying to eat it

[elfin night]

so?

they sure are trying to kill it

[strong crypt]

yep but other dibbles dont try to kill other dibbles that often

[elfin night]

what does that have to do with the original question of viability?

[slim dragon]

AI isn't off, I've had no trouble finding AI animals as a carnivore since the update

[strong crypt]

you said dibble is slower and easily killed

there is no carnivore that hunt a dibble under 1.5 ton that dont hunt a cera under 1t

[elfin night]

?

[strong crypt]

this

[elfin night]

And yeah juvi and sub dibbles are such free kills for basically every carnivore except for ptera

[strong crypt]

you say its speed is super fast and yet it outrunns nothing but dibble stego trike

[slim dragon]

As a juvie (around 20%) dibble I once managed to kill 2 raptors
I think they didn't know they had to press a button to deal damage with their pounce tho

[strong crypt]

xD does happend lol

[strong crypt]

same goes for cerato up till after like 1k haelth

this is also about every experience i have as a herbivore now nothing will attack me

[slim dragon]

This is far from the experience I had as an herbivore

[strong crypt]

well idk what to tell you i almost always manage to find an adult who keeps me safe even tho last time i grew and this time compleatly solo

[elfin night]

Never said super fast

I said if gains speed quickly

Because it goes from like 25 to 39 in less than an hour

[strong crypt]

ah my bad you said "because it is less time and it gains weight and speed super fast"

[elfin night]

Not really no. When you’re like 800-1000kg you’re basically untouchable for anything but night dilos, dibbles, stegos, good Maias, ceras and deinos in a 1v1

[strong crypt]

no xD

[elfin night]

Yes xD

[strong crypt]

3 raptors 2 dilos 1 carno

actually 800 to 900 i think a dilo can 1v1 you if FG

they are all faster than you also

and also every other cera thats bigger is faster than you

honestly if ur unlucky a 10 pack of troodons could probably kill you if you adult xD

[slim dragon]

The fact you can be killed by a huge mixpack of 3 raptors 2 dilos and 1 carno or 10 troodons doesn't mean cera is vulnerable in the slightest

[strong crypt]

i meant each speiceis seperatly

1 dilo could probaly kill you

[slim dragon]

Dilo is also its own issue tbh

[strong crypt]

btw im fightin 2 fg carnos at 1.4t stego

and typing whilst doing it XD

this still goes to show a stego at 1.4 could 1 shot a carno

[strong crypt]

also you really think that you wanna back it up? go on a EUomni server and try it

[elfin night]

Small game hunter struggles against nearly subadult apex

Yeah, expected

[strong crypt]

true but there was 2 fg 3 smaller ones and they stod no chance

and people are complaining that cera would stand a chance

matchup stego 1.5t vs cera who wins?

[slim dragon]

I'm busy doing more interesting things

[strong crypt]

okay but lets skip the duel part no cerato at 800-900 does not win you will get poison and cloned to death by dilo, he outrunn you propably out dps u

[slim dragon]

Yes as I said, dilo is its own issue

[strong crypt]

omg im sorry it was meant towards @elfin night im so lost 😦

dilo kills it

1 carno fg kills it

1 cerato bigger than 800-900 kills it

honest to god its really hard to describe how things win matchups with words but if you instead play it it makes alot more sense for example tenon vs cerato or other matchups aswell

[elfin night]

If it tries to fight yeah

But it can escape very reliably

Then dilo is broken so you’re kinda cooked at night far from the water

And then cera is a little build dependent but you can also try to evade it

[strong crypt]

how xD

carno is twice its speed and its not invisible at 800-900

[elfin night]

Water

[strong crypt]

thats some spot to be in where theres a water i cant run around

[slim dragon]

Or anything that allows you to break line of sight

[strong crypt]

also unless mixpack deino might just kill u

[elfin night]

We are exclusively talking about carno and cera

[elfin night]

Any river works, or even some lake with stuff to stand on

You can just swim to the other side and the carno would waste so much time

[strong crypt]

well okay so dilo clones will kill you even if you swim to other side raptors will pin you you cannot swim at all

carno can most likely run around or swim over itself

[elfin night]

Carno will be wasting its time then

Also if you get grappled by Omnis then it is your fault

[slim dragon]

Carno swimming over a river to catch a cera
haha

At that point just turn around and end its pathetic existence

[elfin night]

Oh, and dilo clones can be cheesed with terrain luckily. Although even then dilo is such a pointless thing to address because we all know it’s broken

[strong crypt]

i mean i needs food

[elfin night]

Or in that time it takes to get to the other shore, the sub cera can just peacefully swim to the other side of the shore, wasting less stamina than the carno and getting there in less time

[strong crypt]

also wdym if u get pounced its your own fault what kind of argument is that

okay so dibble is super easy to play just never get seen

[elfin night]

And not always you’re going to be surrounded by people, being discreet and having game sense is also a skill, so getting away from the water or a safe escape route and dying would be the cera’s fault

And yes, if you get grappled by Omnis and pinned down, that is your fault because it can be avoided

[elfin night]

Never said that

[slim dragon]

Anything is easy to play as if people don't see you

[elfin night]

That was a pretty sad strawman

[strong crypt]

yes but 2 raptors are faster than you and can pin you you will be slowed when 1 jump on

[elfin night]

Literally just use a tree, always remain hidden or be careful scouting around, or hold one hostage bruh

[strong crypt]

well same can be said for dibble execpt dibble doesnt have to go to CORPSES WHERE PLAYERS HAV LITRALLY KILLED STUFF

[elfin night]

They’re faster than you in a straight line but they’re gonna need to pounce your sides two times in a row

[slim dragon]

No but dibble doesn't get double health around them either

[strong crypt]

neither does cerato

[slim dragon]

It also needs to go to migration zones and patrol zones which are visible on every carnivore's radar

[slim dragon]

bruh

That's literally cera's main ability

[strong crypt]

unless if corpse is larger than you by specific amount or FG

[elfin night]

The same can be said about dibble in terms of grappling, yes. If it gets pinned, it is a skill issue.

Also you can just go and eat the bones or rotten flesh brug, and you get a cray body buff and have one the craziest bleed resistance to have ever existed in the history of the isle

Cera unironically is more bleed resistant than shant or pue comparatively speaking 😭 😭

[strong crypt]

most small dead bodies will not give you this buff

[elfin night]

They give you a partial one

[strong crypt]

25% yes

also its glitchy

sometimes yes sometimes no

the argument as it started was that dibble is harder to grow than cerato remember that

[slim dragon]

It is

[elfin night]

Dibble is harder, yes

Longer growth and way more helpless early game

[slim dragon]

Otherwise you'd see more FG dibbles than ceras running around

[elfin night]

Dunno what else you need

[slim dragon]

It's not about theorizing at this point
Just look at the facts

[strong crypt]

you are strong enough to deal with any singular prey at about 1.3 tons

[elfin night]

And less means to escape everything unlike cera who is a glorified bipedal deino

Like the larval theropod thing for deino Bubul mentioned once

[strong crypt]

it does not take alot longer to get to that point for dibble than for cera

[slim dragon]

Dibble is absolutely not untouchable at 1.3 tons

[strong crypt]

now cera has to find food where there is probably players whilst dibbles can graze eat sanc mushurms and also just go to PZ

[elfin night]

Dibble at 1.3-1.6 tons gets absolutely mauled by ceras, decent dilos, decent omnis, deino, sub stegos (lol), sub trikes i believe, and then canni dibbles

[strong crypt]

and if you are asking me lets say that AI works and ur saking me whats harder to grow dibble afk or cera im not gonna say man dibble being afk is so much harder

[elfin night]

50% dibble is unironically far more helpless vs cannis than a 50% cera

Because of their growth curve

[strong crypt]

valiant you have not played this game if you think that

[elfin night]

[strong crypt]

i refuse to belive it

[elfin night]

I have over a thousand hours on this game dude

[strong crypt]

at 700kg i killed a fg dilo using cliff

[elfin night]

You used terrain for a lucky push to kill one dilo that let itself get pushed/who kept insisting on pushing a dibble on a cliff…

Dunno what else to expect

But if you get caught anywhere far from a cliff, there’s nothing you can do

[strong crypt]

No i use terrain and it was impossible for him to out DPS me there is a clear diffrence between Luck and knowing where that terrain was and putting him in a spot of retreat or die

and every single one of these herbis have great defensive abilities and can use cliffs

[elfin night]

Then cera obliterates you, teno obliterates you, canni dibbles toy with you, carno destroys dibbles that small especially below 1 ton, deino has then for snack, herra can have fun doing some target practice, sub trikes can catch up to early sub dibbles…

Like come on, the 20kph potato is useless

Even with a health pool of 900 or +1000

[strong crypt]

i would like for you to kill me on a cliff when we are same weight cera and dibble

you wont be able to succed once

[elfin night]

How fast is the sub dibble? Like 25? That’s so pathetic for something that has been growing for almost 2 hours

[strong crypt]

again ur overvaluing speed what about being able to use terrrain?

what u gonna do with ur speed when im up against a cliff

[elfin night]

Unsurprisingly, dibble in its single most optimal position and without being able to account for ambushes (which are a very important part of solo carnivore gameplay) is going to win against something that it can push and knock over

That doesn’t mean that universally dibble will be easier to grow

[elfin night]

Certainly stand a better chance at survival

No standing at a cliff will ever save a 20kph dibble from getting ran down and killed by a 25kph sub trike

Speed is objectively the best stat in the game 💀

[slim dragon]

Didn't you say terrain shouldn't be taken into account before, in the cerato VS carno matchup ?

[strong crypt]

no but not being able to starve and having more easily acchivable diets will

i dont think so

[slim dragon]

"more easily achievable diets"
Compared to cera, who can eat literally everything made of meat and gain diet from it

[elfin night]

How is a cera ever going to starve

[strong crypt]

idk you think food just spawns on the ground for it?

[elfin night]

It has way more things in its diet and has no competition for them

Other than like, land deinos sometimes

Hunger is a non issue for both of them

[strong crypt]

I Cannot have this argument about finding diet on herbs u Press Q and then u find it u already know where it will be there is no quetsion about it

[slim dragon]

With AI ? Yes, basically

[strong crypt]

with AI yes bbasically

[slim dragon]

And more often than not it's on the other side of the map

[strong crypt]

so this means there is a possibility that AI will not spawn or you will not find food

however this is not the case for dibble because there is no possiblility of grass not spawning

[slim dragon]

Grass doesn't fill diets

[strong crypt]

when it comes to diet u will 100% of the time find diet food on herbivores

but with cerato you will not know where diet food is 100% of the time even tho it has a big chance of finding it

[slim dragon]

Any food is diet food for cera, by virtue of it being a scavenger

Which is a thing that should be fixed tbh

[elfin night]

There’s also a chance that your patrol has been eaten by trikes or that it simply doesn’t load and you only have no diet plants around

So it evens out

[strong crypt]

now that ive established that gettingg diet i dont think so but lets say it is as easy for cerato as diablo (EVEN THO YOU HAVE TO RUN TO CORPSES WHERE BIGGER PREDETORS OR GROUPS OF PREDATORS MAY BE)

[slim dragon]

or AI in the middle of nowhere

[elfin night]

Omnis or carnos somehow caring about a rotting stego corpse is kinda funny to imagine

Or about bones

[strong crypt]

So a perfect growth time for diabloceratops is 3 Hours and 30 minutes (considerd 100% increased growth rate)
Growth time for CERATOSAURUS is 2 Hours and 5 minutes (considerd u have 100% growth rate)
this means that a dibble on 50% growth will weigh more, also be capable and have less growth time till that point (dibble reaching 1.5 tons)

[elfin night]

And cera in one hour has way less one sided matchups than a dibble after one hour and a half

So…who’s easier?

[slim dragon]

It's really not that deep
What's more common to see ? FG ceras or FG dibbles ?
Does it mean all cera players are insanely skilled for being more numerous than dibbles despite being "harder" to grow ?

[cosmic pelican]

A 50% dibble is free food to ceras 💀
Heck, any competent player, its so slow

[strong crypt]

for ceras yes for 1 cerato no

[cosmic pelican]

Even 1 cera

A 1.5t dibble doesnt have the damage, nor the speed to even have a chance against a cera

[strong crypt]

well it does now

[cosmic pelican]

The gore attack is laughably weak as well at that size if thats what you mean

A dibble that small is not beating a cera

[strong crypt]

now a FG cera having an advantage over a 50% 1.5t dibble seems fair to me because all playables in the game become much stronger when FG

[elfin night]

50% dibble is fodder for:

• one competent cera
• one competent dilo at night
• canni dibbles (smaller dibbles are completely helpless)
• sub stegos
• sub trikes
• competent teno
• two decent omnis
• troodons
• persistent herreras
• deino

And these from the foreseeable future if nothing changes:

• one allo (lmfao rekt rmb one tap)
• REX (do I even need to explain it)
• bary
• potentially kentro

[strong crypt]

yes but you are not a compitent dibble if this si supposed to be true

[cosmic pelican]

1 maia

Stomp go brr

[elfin night]

Meanwhile 50% cera:

• canni ceras
• maia
• competent dilos especially at night
• carno in the open (you can swim lol)
• omni packs
• good and lucky troodons

And then

• sub rex
• allo
• bary (maybe)

[slim dragon]

I hate them silos

[strong crypt]

oh boy are you wrong

[elfin night]

same

[slim dragon]

Always so full of grain

[strong crypt]

there is no way in the name of jesus that a 50% cera beats 1 compitent maia

[elfin night]

Am I wrong saying that a 25kph dibble is cooked against rex? Or cannis? Or sub trikes running faster?

[strong crypt]

a 50% cerato 100% loses to a dilo if not body is near

[elfin night]

It can swim though

Something dibble cannot do reliably to evade basically everyone

[strong crypt]

see so rex trike will cook it

[elfin night]

Also dilo after one bite and you cannot even run into the water 💔

[strong crypt]

and allo we know to little about

[elfin night]

Or sub stegos

Or tenos since you’re not as maneuverable to not get kicked

[elfin night]

Pin

No way allo cannot pin something teno sized

[strong crypt]

yeah sure

but then again we dont know anything about allo execpt for simular to raptor

with its pin function

[elfin night]

I cannot know 100% certainly that the sun will be there tomorrow, but based on other knowledge I can deduct that it will remain there

Following that exact same logic, it is impossibly unlikely that allo won’t be faster than 25 kph or incapable of pinning something marginally larger than a cera

In fact we’ve seen allo to some extent already in gameplay

[strong crypt]

yes but allo is not in the game therefore it is not adding to if cera is harder or easier to grow than a dibble

[elfin night]

rex will be soon, so we can still add that one to the list

Of abysmal matchups of each side

[strong crypt]

well not really because you dont know how a rex will be in its early stage

and if you are saying that a fg rex will kill 50% dibble from what ive heard it will be most likely an ambusher with great speed and stamina cost so keeping ur distance you will probably be alive

[elfin night]

I know

Based on the same line of reasoning that I just exposed

[strong crypt]

so i think small rexses will not kill 50% dibble and bigger ones wont catch unless if ur careless

now as long as dibble can flip it it can fight it

however idk allo weight but if it is like 2 ton vs 1.5 ton dibble with a pin function NO IT WILL NOT WIN(the dibble).
But does this make the dibble harder to grow then cerato when it is likely a year away, right now NO

[slim dragon]

Dibble already is harder to grow than ceras

[strong crypt]

and im telling you its not

[slim dragon]

I'm gonna say it again, just compare the amount of FG dibbles to the amount of FG ceras

No amount of arguing can allow you to ignore the facts

[strong crypt]

the diffrence to FG is 55minutes

wait its more 1h20

[slim dragon]

And yet you see 3x to 4x as many ceras (lowballing it) than dibbles

[elfin night]

uh..............https://youtu.be/FNX_rkjdvK4?si=pqKDDiOCc0tOxSH-

also datamined 29kph fg rex with 35kph ambush

[strong crypt]

what do you mean by "Lowballing it"

[slim dragon]

It means I didn't count but the actual proportion of ceras VS dibbles is probably way higher than that, considering I may also have mistaken juvie trikes in the distance for dibbles

[elfin night]

Most dibbles just swapped to trike anyways with that damage buff

[strong crypt]

well this has nothing at all with balancing to do its simply that cerato is only carnivore that can attempt to kill dibble stego and trike (if they are bad) and is not a herbivore

carnivore is in general thought to be way more funn because of the thrill of the hunt and when other main carnivores like omni and carno is in a bad spot they all hop to cerato

[slim dragon]

It's not that deep
If cera was hard to grow you wouldn't see FG ceras everywhere

[strong crypt]

same for dibble

i do play on server like petit peids with more players on usually

[slim dragon]

Soi you agree cera is overtuned ?
According to grow times you should see more raptors, troodons and dilos than ceras
But ceras are what you see the most

[elfin night]

And is also the easiest carnivore to pick and play with, which means that it has been this oppressive agent of death for a long time

[slim dragon]

Thing is, I don't see that many dibbles

[elfin night]

Well before maia even released

[slim dragon]

And Petis Pieds don't abide by official server rules, with pick limits, free food and all

[elfin night]

Cera is easier, also has a bigger crowd and on top of that is the strongest land carnivore

[strong crypt]

compared to other carnivores yes compared to herbivores no its balanced

[elfin night]

Perfect recipe for disaster

[slim dragon]

It's overpowered compared to everything but dilo

[elfin night]

What herbivore is overpowered other than trike (thrash)?

[strong crypt]

compared to every carnivore but dilo i would agree yes

[elfin night]

why not Maia

[strong crypt]

maia is really strong RN just hard to learn

[elfin night]

Or stego, or trike, or teno, or pachy, or dryo, or hypsi

Galli and beipi are also there in a corner

[strong crypt]

wont beat overtuned dibble but maia will beat carnos beat 1 cera and out run everything but carno

so some people think gali is really strong i dont agree tho but yeah

[elfin night]

Funnily enough beipi is so close to being overpowered yet one single detail holds it back almost like that tai lung meme image

If beipi was like 200-300kg and got a slight damage buff to match it would be the single most overpowered creature in the entire game

[maiden temple]

They can still starve, grazing doesn't fill your stomach so you're still affected by low food AND no diets this way

If you're not in a spot that has grass you can't graze, so you're limited as to where you can be/have to move to.

[elfin night]

@solemn thunder bruh, nerfs dont have to be universal

many of cera's stats are fine

what did cera's weight do to you?

[solemn thunder]

do you know how much a real cera weights?

[elfin night]

I know, and it has nothing to do with game balance

[solemn thunder]

i just want cera nerfed

its way too strong

[elfin night]

what makes you think that the game would be better if we tried to make everything resemble their real life counterparts?

[elfin night]

most people know, but you don't go about it nerfing everything

cera is problematic, but the whole stat pool is not the problem

speed, weight, body buff, damage, bite speed and stamina for instance are all fine

[solemn thunder]

nah it has too much stam

damage is too high

literally deals like 500 damage to the head with full charged bite

[elfin night]

damage is perfectly acceptable for its role if the charged bite restrictions were adequate

and there is nothing wrong with the stamina

just saying otherwise won't prove anything if no examples are given

[maiden temple]

Agree

It's just given too much freedom with the charged bite not applying slowdown the second it's pressed, that'd solve all my issues with ceras. Nothing HAS to fight them

It has been toned down well since it was added. Seeing one was a death sentence then lol

[dusky surge]

honestly cera's problems are all kit based

stat-wise it's genuinely fine

[jagged wadi]

I have no idea why so many people whine about cera tbh. It can not catch up to any one which makes fights insanely frustrating and one sided. I can't consistently run people of corpses either because herbies will still body me even with the buff. This will immensely worse with Rex since it's faster and stronger then cera

The only real strong point is has is that it barely cares about bleed so raptors are easy pickings, at least if they are afk or got rabbies because otherwise why wouldn't they simply run away?

[viscid mica]

Vomit and charge bite are over tuned plus it’s stability changes that were simply obnoxious

The ni bleed immunity too

Simply overly strong for something meant to be a “corpse bully”

[viscid mica]

Too true

[jagged wadi]

It's barely even functions as a corpse bully because herbies can just run you off anyway

Stability doesn't matter if you are two shot anyway

[viscid mica]

Everything isn’t exactly a problem if and only if the speed reduction was instant

Currently it can very much so hunt

41 ain’t nothing to sneeze at in speed

[jagged wadi]

It's slower then everything

[viscid mica]

But it’s not

[jagged wadi]

Yeah stego and trike are slower true, but they one shot it basically

[viscid mica]

And it’s accel is instant but that’s a non issue

[viscid mica]

Dibble, Maia quad, teno is .1 faster

Let’s talk about speed muts making it faster than pachy

The vomit is ni instant from few hits, the charge bite does super high damage which again non issue if it didn’t have endless speed the stability buff wouldn’t be bad if it was corpse related instead of charge bite related.

On a corpse you also have effectively (roughly cuz I don’t know exact value ) 2k HP

Tbh 1 singular change would instantly imo balance cera

Speed reduction when charge biting be instant

Everything else is fine even with last patch buffs

[jagged wadi]

It has zero agency on its on, the fact that it somewhat wins against some dinos one on one if the circumstances are right barely balance out that fact. I don't think bacteria should stun you, but instead it should be a lot more detrimental longterm

[viscid mica]

On its own?

Just to clarify as I think there was a typo

[jagged wadi]

Yeah

[viscid mica]

Ya na solo cera is super do able your basically immune to all other carnis and can easily hunt anything short of a skill issued dibble

[jagged wadi]

You can literally not hunt a single carni and most herbies kill you easily 1 vs 1

[viscid mica]

Speed and audio ques are super important effectively yes cera is slower but cera isn’t SLOW you know what I mean? It can out put DPS equivalent to what most mid to large Dino’s will or can do.

Plus is very quite runner compared to other things it’s weight

[viscid mica]

Wdym you win every fight with other carnis rn beyond a super good carno

1 tap vomit

Unironically

[jagged wadi]

Yeah, but you can't hunt them because all they need to do is hold down the direction key away from you

[viscid mica]

Teno and dibble everything else beyond the super bigs are free if you can get close enough

[viscid mica]

Your average player has the awareness of a pineapple

If we talk high end sure you’d def struggle like all hell

On average thou? Naaaa your fat chilling

Solo cera is easy as hell

[jagged wadi]

Still, my main point is that Cera will be unplayable when Rex releases because it will just die to it every time

[viscid mica]

It can do what your saying other things can do to it

Run away

[jagged wadi]

And Rex will just take its place because it does the same by simply being strong

[viscid mica]

Rex will be slow as beans

Plus it’s stam game will be a joke

[jagged wadi]

In the files Rex is faster then cera

[viscid mica]

You mean with murder sprint?

That will last a while 2 seconds?

[jagged wadi]

Normal sprint

[viscid mica]

Or like what growth stage?

[jagged wadi]

Fg

[viscid mica]

No…..

FG it’ll run base sprint like maybe dibble fast? On an extreme time limit.

Same with murder sprint thou that one might be faster but it’ll last like 3/4s tops

Trike will have a better stam game when sprinting than Rex

They got beans stam game

It’s why they pimp walk everywhere

Maybe Rex during younger stage will be faster

But it’ll be smaller during that time frame

It’ll get slower the bigger it gets

Speed<power

[dusky surge]

sorry what, no it aint lol

rex is slower than 30, cera is faster than 40

and in murdersprint, rex is still slower than cera

[warm flax]

How’s cera’s swim speed, by the way?
I just barely escaped through the water as a tenno