balance-feedback-discussion

[alpine dust]

yeah that's why i don't want deino but i get your point if you're disagreeing with carno buff

[steep gazelle]

If Carno can cause fractures, he will be able to deal with any smaller dino even if he is alone xd

[alpine dust]

i only want carno buff because it's not the best at hunting teno, a medium sized herbivore, despite being built to

[alpine dust]

kinda can already no?

[steep gazelle]

I say in their maximum groups

With fractures, Carno can handle 4 Dilos or 8 Omni without difficulty

[alpine dust]

disagreeing with that omni estimate

can't omni pin with a carno if it's that many

i remember pinning an adult carno with 2 fg omnis yesterday

[blissful geode]

Anyone have any info or know if Cera will be getting a nerf anytime soon?

[steep gazelle]

2 omnis don't do that anymore, now there are 3 omnis. But, if Carno has low health/stam/bleed it's only 2.

[steep gazelle]

Probably not

[blissful geode]

The charge bite and Vomiting mechanic just seems too op/unfair/unrealistic, im surprised

[steep gazelle]

I agree, especially with the vomiting.

But devs probably don't think the same

[blissful geode]

I mean they should take a look at a real life example, correct me if im wrong, but ive heard Komodo dragons have a sort of bacteria bite, or venom of a sort, im not sure but it essentially sort of works the same, minus making the victim vomit every 5 seconds, essentially its the bitten flesh deteriorating and after a week or so the prey dies and komodo dragon tracks it down

[vale brook]

wouldnt that be better to give to the komodo dragon on steroids

aka megalania

(owl will find this message soon)

[blissful geode]

I was sort of proposing they just nerf the bacteria to take effect slower like it would realistically, forcing ceras to fight for longer periods of time

[viscid mica]

3 unless they are 20% stam or lower or 30% bleed and lower

[viscid mica]

Not health just stam and bleed

[steep gazelle]

Health too, I've already tested it

[viscid mica]

Sense when

I’ve never seen pin due to health

[steep gazelle]

But it exists, it's the same mechanic as stam/bleed

Needs low health, about less than 30%

[viscid mica]

It’s have to be lower than that somewhere in the red stage which is well below 20% ish

But even then I’ve played omni a ton and NEVER seen that

[steep gazelle]

Well, I tested this on a pvp server where I have an Admin Panel

It happened with cerato too

[viscid mica]

Ugh PvP servers

[viscid mica]

never seen it in practical use in actual survival gameplay on officials maybe it exists maybe it doesnt ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[steep gazelle]

I didn't say it was practical or anything like that, I just said it could be done

[viscid mica]

Well I mean in combat low hp duo or solo pin would be very useful I’ve just never seen it happen before a stam or bleed does

[alpine dust]

might've been 3 then my memory is foggy

[viscid mica]

It could’ve been too, and they were just really low stam

[alpine dust]

idk because we ran out of stam before the carno did

then it tried to run but literally took 5 steps and folded

we had some brutal bleed on it

[mint star]

correct

[mint star]

the bacteria thing is debunked, they have venom, it’s just that their prey tends to wallow in cesspools and mud pits

[slow topaz]

modern research disproves this

normally waterbuffalo

and like owl said, love mud pits as they know kamodo dragons wont go in there

[blissful geode]

ooh alright, im still confused with the bacteria mechanic that cera has though, i dont know if theres a real life example of this

[worthy steeple]

teno is water buffalo

[viscid mica]

@open flicker omnis won’t survive galli that they can’t pin fall has equal if not better agility, is significantly faster and does sizeable damage per kick. If omni can’t pin gallis absolutely destroy omnis

Your welcome to fact check me get a omni and galli on a PvP server no pounce see who wins if the player skill is roughly the same the galli should win every time and no by a small margins

If I’m not mistake galli running kick does roughly double or so omnis bite

[steep gazelle]

Omni only needs to stick to Galli once and use the damage pounce.

[viscid mica]

If you think you can land a pounce on a galli that you cannot front pounce your dreaming

Faster, same or better agility

Ya gl with that

[vale brook]

let gallis knock down omnis again, keep omni pin

perfect world

[worthy steeple]

remove omni pin, add galli pin

[rapid flume]

cook

[steep gazelle]

It's better this way than just Hitkill you with one click xd

[viscid mica]

I….. I wouldn’t mind this so long as you can’t be stun locked

[vale brook]

ive been begging for it for years but its fallen onto deaf ears unfortunately

[viscid mica]

Making omni unplayable the moment a galli exists is better than galli simply avoiding omni

Uh huh

[viscid mica]

51kmph pinner 💀

[worthy steeple]

isn’t galli almost 70 with the buff and perfect diet? xddd

[viscid mica]

Perfect diet and other gallis around (4+) oh ya

You are insanely fast

Imagine unpinnable galli groups spamming honk

Omnis would be destroyed in seconds

[worthy steeple]

hehehe he

[viscid mica]

Genuine nightmare

Tbh galli groups can reasonably wreak dilos if they try

[worthy steeple]

if galli pack sees a dilo then the dilo is dead

[viscid mica]

Yup

Galli is very strong people just underestimate it cuz it can’t fight 1 thing

[worthy steeple]

tbf same as any other small dino……

[viscid mica]

It’s like how Kentro will be the perfect counter to Herrera….

[worthy steeple]

galli is monster, galli packs are genuinely terrifying

kentro is PEAK!

[viscid mica]

99% of galli players are giant trolls looking to harass people

Now imagine unpinnable galli or even worse galli with bleed

[worthy steeple]

i killed fg carno as a solo galli…….:

[viscid mica]

Rare but possible you have same or better speed plus way more agility

So if that carno doesn’t know how to drift alt they are cooked

[worthy steeple]

that carno was soooo bad

[steep gazelle]

Just make sure Omni can't be knocked down by the kick, maybe a stun

[viscid mica]

They won’t change the fact that omni is significantly out damaged and out maneuvered by galli

[steep gazelle]

Unfortunately. But it would be a fairer fight instead of Omni using pounce from 3km away and hitting you and killing xd

[viscid mica]

Omni ain’t hitting you from far at all sure tails hits are cringe but galli can unironically walk away

Your significantly faster

Your your trot is like half omnis speed

[steep gazelle]

Running away when you should be able to go toe-to-toe with an omni?

[viscid mica]

Why should you be able too?

Explain that? Why does galli NEED to be able to fight omni

[steep gazelle]

It's better for Galli to be able to fight on equal terms with the omni than for it not to exist if there is one nearby.

And it's not like the Omni doesn't have the ability to kill a Galli Just because he can't pin it

It's one of the main reasons why there are no Galli players

The pin in general needs to be modified, I don't even want to see how it will be with Allo and I also don't doubt that they will let Rex be able to do this in all growth stages xd

[vale brook]

tbf i just want galli to be able to knockdown omnis for escape chances when solo

idc about 1v1 galli vs omni, galli can run away

pinning becomes a non issue the moment you have another galli

and a group of gallis destroys a smaller pack of omnis

[viscid mica]

@analog mirage have you played HT?

[viscid mica]

They’d have to completely change galli for it to be even remotely equal galli if not pinnable is SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than omni

[viscid mica]

Galli players are trolls of course they’re mad they can’t troll omnis

There is nothing wrong with a single playable needing to be avoided when playing stuff in this size category

[viscid mica]

Plus allo is likely gonna be far less diverse and less nimble in its use

[analog mirage]

Since the last patch briefly, I’ve mostly gone off what I’ve heard from others. But Maia seems in an ok spot outside its speed curve and back kick

[viscid mica]

They completely changed its combat reactiveness

You should check it it’s significantly better

The speed aside

[analog mirage]

I know it’s back kick cooldown is non existent

Last I heard

[viscid mica]

Nothing has cool downs they follow the animation wind up and return accordingly

[open flicker]

One pounce likely means Gali would need to run away or die regardless as it puts that much bleed on you, even NOW when an ally kicks the Omni off you run and usually die from bleed, or sit down and be tracked down and die.

Omni can easily kill Gali without needing the pin, and if you can’t that’s a skill issue fr. Gali wouldn’t be some unfair matchup where it kills all omnis all of a sudden.

Pachy has a weight advantage on Omni right now, isn’t pinable yet the matchup is a solid 50/50 where if you are vs 2 raptors you’re likely gonna lose.

As should Gali. It’s dumb that you can fight a 600-700kg Carno easier than you can fight a 450kg raptor.

You shouldn’t HAVE to run away from a Dino that’s literally the same size as you. Imagine Carno could just charge a FG teno and Insta kill it, literally everyone would say that’s broken and nobody would play teno. That’s literally what happens with Gali right now.

[viscid mica]

You think omni are landing pounces on gallis that know they can’t get insta pinned? HA

[viscid mica]

Omni and pachy is not 50/50 it’s like 80/20 omnis lose that horribly if they are alone or the pachy has more than 2 brain cells

I’ve wiped out 4 mans as pachy solo it’s not hard you unironically 2 tap them

[open flicker]

Despite what you might think, landing a pin on a Gali isn’t that hard. Yes they are faster, but the turning circle of raptor is way better, and they’re full speed when doing so.

Looping around when a Gali comes in for a kick and latching on the side is very well possible

[viscid mica]

Uh huh sure it would be

Go try and fight galli rn no pouncing

Tell me how that ends

Can’t be a bot player

[open flicker]

That’s not the argument lol? Raptor can still use its pounce if it’s not pinning?

It can still latch on lol?

You’re acting like it’s relegated to only left clicks 😂

One latch and the Gali is half blood and has to run or bleed out

It’s bleed resist is garbage

[crimson crater]

pounce to pin:

[viscid mica]

Stand and alt attack can’t do nothing can’t latch can’t pin

[open flicker]

Also I’ve played heaps of both sides of this matchup and it’s largely based off raptor skill. You shouldn’t be getting hit by headbutts at all as you’re far more mobile and can even jump over them

[viscid mica]

My point is your not landing pounces on that

They are faster just as agile and do far more damage

[viscid mica]

Trash pachies

You should never lose the 1s not even to dilo

[open flicker]

Well you can very easily land pounces, that’s literally the problem to begin with.

It’s a death sentence even running at a FG raptor bc it’s a solid 80% chance he pins.

If you couldn’t land a pounce then it wouldn’t be an issue to begin with

[viscid mica]

It’s why you shouldn’t run at omnis as galli

[crimson crater]

example:

[viscid mica]

Your using the charge attack which self stuns

Don’t do that

[open flicker]

Perfect example aka trash raptor players

[viscid mica]

Bro used the one move against a pack of omnis you don’t wanna use that’s a horrible example

[open flicker]

lol what? That’s literally ALL pachy does 😂

[crimson crater]

not me in the clip but you get the point

[viscid mica]

I never said all pachy s aren’t bad

[viscid mica]

Poor use of abilities, doesn’t prove the point

[open flicker]

Yeah I’m saying the more mobile creature wins 100% of the time when they are equal skill

I main troodon 😂

Literally only die when I stuff up

[cosmic pelican]

Wait I got a clip for this

Wait nvm you already sent it, troover

[crimson crater]

poor use of ability could be said about the omnis if they get hit no? they got extremely good agility and can turn on a dime to avoid an alt attack.

also they can just overwhelm lol

[open flicker]

Same thing happens to Gali, except you’re pinned by that first raptor that dodges your kick (or even just face tanks it bc it doesn’t have NEARLY as much threat as a pachy headbutt)

[viscid mica]

Hit by a rmb sure

The alt left is a different story

[viscid mica]

Why is the galli not continuing to run?

[cosmic pelican]

That can be punsihed too

[open flicker]

Alt left click is just as slow, and you can’t even run while doing it lol?

[cosmic pelican]

2 competent omnis wipe any pachy no problem

[viscid mica]

It turns your camera face or your front face towards the pounce

[crimson crater]

can only be used when practically stationary and you can’t focus on multiple omnis at once

[open flicker]

How on this planet are you hitting alt left on a running raptor, you gotta be trolling 😂

[cosmic pelican]

Even 1v1 is omni favoured, unless the pachy spams its rmb uphill, which makes it bug out

[viscid mica]

Not really if the pachy is also competent

[cosmic pelican]

1 pounce is gg

Plus they can just facetank pretty much

[open flicker]

Yeah but literally any raptor with a shred of skill is baiting an attack THEN pouncing, not just running straight into the pounce

[viscid mica]

Yes, but it doesn’t self stun and can be spamed

[viscid mica]

If they don’t think the pachy will attack

I agree good ones are really rare

[open flicker]

It very much does self stun as you’re locked in a long as hell animation and by then a raptor has pounced on your back

As in a 2v1 there’s always a raptor on the opposite side of you

[crimson crater]

sure but the animation lock on the alt attack is still a big enough window for an omni to capitalize on

[open flicker]

Gali suffers even harder bc a raptor can afford to tank a kick, unlike pachy where broken bones often mean death

Literally no chance in this world you’re winning a 1v4 unless you’re up on a rock, the raptors aren’t FG or they’re the worst players known to man

[viscid mica]

It’s really not that long

[viscid mica]

If they’re paying a lot of attention, sure

[crimson crater]

which competent player isn’t?

[viscid mica]

You rarely see omni that will capitalize on windows like that

[open flicker]

I mean they’re trying to hunt you, why wouldn’t they be looking for openings?

[open flicker]

Well you’re seeing complete noobs nonstop lol

[crimson crater]

they do thanks to their excellent speed and agility

[viscid mica]

I could say the same to you for pachys

[open flicker]

Yeah but the difference is pachy is SUPPOSED to lose to multiple raptors

[viscid mica]

Not often usually I’m facing that one than alt and alt immediately again

[viscid mica]

And galli is SUPPOSED to lose to a solo omni

[open flicker]

As should Gali, but it being the same size category with raptor should mean it’s a 50/50 fight in a 1v1, which currently it’s more of a 90/10 bc of the pin.

[cosmic pelican]

90/10 is underestimating omni tbh

[open flicker]

Yeah but this quite literally makes no sense when they are the same size. 25kg less which looking much bigger makes no sense. They should be weight buffed to 475 or 500

[cosmic pelican]

Its more like 99/1, if the omni doesnt spam pounce, it just cant lose

[viscid mica]

Man you’ve never met a good pachy

[open flicker]

Half the time as a Gali I think, this raptor looks much smaller than me, I don’t think he can pin, probably not FG, I go in and dead

[viscid mica]

The problem is how strong of hit and run galli is

I don’t see omnis surviving unpinnable gallis

[open flicker]

I played pachy heaps myself, I’ve solo’s FG carnos, we’ve 2v1’d FG ceras (I’d 1v1 them if it wasn’t for that garbage vomit mechanic)

And a competent raptor player is still a challenge lol

Again bc you’re faster and more nimble than Carno, makes it way easier

Raptor doesn’t matter that it’s lower hp, when it has the ability to not get hit in the first place

[open flicker]

In the place of the pin, you land a pounce, shred half the things blood with one pounce then what’s Gali gonna do? Stay fighting and bleed out?

[viscid mica]

The problem is landing that pounce

[open flicker]

The Gali is effectively dead, either it stays fight and bleeds out (risking even more bleeding from more pounced or left clicks) or it runs away and hopes the raptor doesn’t track it, and possibly dies to bleed unless it has the mutation to stop the death while laying

[open flicker]

No it’s quite literally not. Landing the pounce is beyond easy

[viscid mica]

Like find me one example of a galli getting hit by a pounce while in motion that wasn’t all up in omnis business trolling

[open flicker]

You trade a kick for a pounce every time you go to kick a raptor.

[viscid mica]

I can promise you, you won’t

[viscid mica]

How are they landing that pounce when they get bounced from the front?

[open flicker]

Again if the pounce was hard to land, this wouldn’t be an issue to begin with. Raptor pounce is the easiest thing to land in the entire game. The hitbox is horrendous

[viscid mica]

You do far more damage kicking then they will do anything in retaliation

[viscid mica]

Tail hitboxes are cringe

[open flicker]

Side step and pounce like they have to with pachy. Look at that example above. The raptor is basically in front of the pachy yet lands the pounce

[viscid mica]

Galli is far more nimble than pachy and is no where near as easy to evade

Plus with how fast it is your unlikely to catch it after it passes

[open flicker]

Making it a little bit harder to die to a raptor is all Gali needs. This matchup won’t suddenly flip 90/10 galis favour, it will still be raptor favoured bc of galis horrible bleed resist

[viscid mica]

That’s clearly desync in the video but I get your point

[viscid mica]

90/10 galli is horrific

Galli is so insanely faster that’s completely unfair to omni

[open flicker]

I’m saying it WONT be.

[viscid mica]

Galli is significantly faster, equal agility and does more damage minus pounce

[open flicker]

It will still be like a 40/60 Omni favoured

[viscid mica]

If only

[open flicker]

Which is much more fair considering Gali is fighting a Dino ITS SAME WEIGHT CLASS

[viscid mica]

I see no world we’re galli not being pinnable won’t result in immediate omni destruction

Hell I’d join in just to get it reverted

[open flicker]

Gali is faster, it’s FAR LESS AGILE, it’s turns slow it down, it takes time to speed up

These two things ARE NOT the same

[viscid mica]

It’s really not

[open flicker]

I’m convinced you’ve never played gali

[viscid mica]

Galli walking is almost as fast as stego sprint

Meaning it’s well into half omnis run speed

[viscid mica]

Think what you want

[open flicker]

Yeah, but it’s slower than raptor sprint ?

That’s all that matters?

[viscid mica]

But you can accel to faster easily

Minding your distance isn’t that hard

[open flicker]

And even Gali SPRINT is slower than raptor sprint for the first second or so

If raptor body blocks the Gali, their sprint speed is back to slower, which gives it time to pounce (literally what they do now)

Will be just as easy to pounce the Gali as it was before

[viscid mica]

Running kick easily ignore the hitbox stop and keep moving

[open flicker]

Only this time it’s not a free win, and the Gali has the opportunity to maybe get out, if it can evade being tracked

[viscid mica]

You significantly over estimate omnis capacity to fight galli if you can’t pen

[open flicker]

You significantly underestimate how broken Omni is without the pin

You think Omni can’t 2v1 a pachy 😂

[viscid mica]

I employ you to find someone who doesn’t share your views and knows galli and not to use pounce and see how it ends

[open flicker]

While they can literally 2v1 any Dino in the roster with good Omni players

[viscid mica]

It can never said can’t I just think a good player on pachy would be fine

[viscid mica]

Mmmm if we are comparing players of lower skill status sure

[open flicker]

Again this point makes absolutely no sense, they’re not relegated to NOT using pounce, they just don’t get a free win off using it

[viscid mica]

But on the higher end that’s a complete fallacy

[open flicker]

No we are comparing players of equal skill, that’s how you get the playable skill, Gali would solo a Rex if the player is bad enough lol? What logic is that

[viscid mica]

The point is see how you do assuming you can’t hit pounce from the front

[viscid mica]

Ok so same skill omni are never beating a teno unless far on the low end of player skill

[open flicker]

Still perfectly fine

[open flicker]

Yeah 100%. A solo Omni never wins

[viscid mica]

Unlikely to beat a dibble or even a carno if we are talking about good, great or better players

[viscid mica]

2-1

[open flicker]

But 2 good Omni players vs a good teno, win every time UNLESS the teno has a terrain advantage

[viscid mica]

You said a duo of good omnis can beat anything

That’s simply not true if the skill level is the same

[viscid mica]

Your mad

[open flicker]

100% it is

[viscid mica]

Not a chance

Bro I’ve wiped entire packs of omnis and I’m not even that good compared to some of the tenos I know

[open flicker]

Bleed is broken. And the Dino’s you’d run out of stamina before beating (like Stego) you would be able to run away and rest and come back

[viscid mica]

@worthy steeple are 2 good omnis beating you when your teno?

[open flicker]

Raptor is exactly like troodon. The only thing stopping you from killing anything is the stamina, but raptor stamina is far better than troodon and it does far more damage per pounce

[viscid mica]

Well stamina skill and size of hitbox

[open flicker]

Hence why pouncing Dino’s are pack Dino’s, the pounce is far more broken when they can’t just look at you endlessly

[viscid mica]

I’ll agree to that if the skill gap is large enough a solo of either can take most things

[open flicker]

But smaller Dino’s are easier to run around making a 1v1 fight much easier

[viscid mica]

Absolutely but that doesn’t mean galli would be any less strong if it couldn’t be pinned

[open flicker]

Gali would be stronger, that’s the entire point

[viscid mica]

I simply don’t see the mass majority of omni players landing pounces on gallis that don’t need to fear being pinned

[open flicker]

Gali right now loses every single time you walk near a raptor

Which is beyond cringe

[viscid mica]

Realizing gallis will play completely differently when they can’t be pinned is kinda important

[open flicker]

Considering it takes no skill to land the pin

[open flicker]

Yeah they will be able to fight

[viscid mica]

Like we are talking basically dilos, that have significantly better agility and faster

[open flicker]

As they should

[viscid mica]

If that doesn’t scare you then I don’t know what will

[viscid mica]

[open flicker]

Yeah they’re like dilos, but way less damage and don’t have venom. You’re telling me a raptor can’t kill a half hp dilo, with no venom? lol?

[viscid mica]

Dilo has no agility

[open flicker]

Gali will only be 475 hp. Not the weight of a dilo which is who knows what I don’t play dilo

[viscid mica]

It can’t turn to save its life

[open flicker]

But I’m sure it’s 700+ or something

[viscid mica]

700

[open flicker]

Yeah but galis turning circle is just as bad, and it can’t do it in a sprint

Bc it loses all its speed

Gali sprint is essentially the same as Carno right click

Although a little bit better on the turning

You CAN turn more, but you lose speed for doing it

Making the raptor faster for a brief moment

(Opportunity to land a pounce)

[viscid mica]

Just as bad as dilo!?

Ya you’ve clearly never played dilo

[open flicker]

Close to it, a little bit better, but in full spring yeah

[viscid mica]

Dilo is objectively worse than carno agility wise

[viscid mica]

It’s significantly better

Galli is barely worse than omni by the tinniest bit

[open flicker]

Gali is a lot worse than Omni lol, Omni can basically 180 on the spot. Try playing troodon and see what kills you the most 😂

Gali can’t do anything you can run circles on its feet, while raptor is on your tail perma

Have to endlessly figure 8 to avoid it

Load in as Gali and hold S and see how wide the arc is compared to raptor

It’s arc is smaller than dilo by quite a bit, but it’s much slower than dilo while doing it

[viscid mica]

Me trying to solo dibbles mostly only 1 success in that regard

I honestly never die to omnis

[open flicker]

You can’t run in circles against a dilo as Gali or you’re dead every time

[viscid mica]

And Kled search troodon from me

You’ll find I play and talk about it ALOT

so you walked into this one

I’ve died to omnis I think 2 times in well over 50 grows

[open flicker]

I main troodon, I’ve played the thing for hundreds of hours 😂 and by far your worst matchup is Omni bc of how nimble it is

[viscid mica]

I mean if you let it see you sure

Easy enough to avoid and vanish into bushes

[open flicker]

Yes you can avoid them and hide, but I’m talking about trying to fight them

That’s the whole point, they’re on your diet for some reason, but even a juvie is insanely hard to fight and win, especially solo

And because of their agility (not to mention the pin) they’re insanely hard to fight

[keen plover]

you mean the trot ?

[viscid mica]

Man Maia is on carnos diet doesn’t mean you should be trying to hunt it

[viscid mica]

Yeah

[keen plover]

Oh in that case you trot faster than base teno/cera run with speed mutations and perfect diet

[open flicker]

Yeah well that logic makes absolutely 0 sense to be. The Dino’s on your Dino SHOULD be the ones you’re supposed to hunt

I’d want the devs to change that bc it makes no sense. It’s literally your “preferred foods” list

[viscid mica]

Tell that to the devs

[open flicker]

I do 😂

[viscid mica]

Troodon has no buisness hunting omnis

Omnis are a must avoid if you have any sense of self preservation at all

[open flicker]

But as it is I limit test against omnis because of the diet and it’s got no chance

Troodon the most nimble creature in the game, is in competition with a 450kg raptor with agility

[viscid mica]

Ignore the diet they just throw stuff on not everything on your diet should be hunted not everything not on your diet shouldn’t be

[keen plover]

Carno can hunt maia though? Ht sub maia is slow and weak up until the 60%+ range. Trio's can also hunt solo maias

[open flicker]

That’s how smooth they are, it’s not even comparable with anything else in the game Omni; much less a gali, (who has worse turning circles than stuff like pachy)

[keen plover]

I don't think diet lists should only be around fgs anyways

[open flicker]

Yeah I agree, but also juvie raptor wins vs troodon; most of the time even harder, bc it’s easier to keep track of the troodon

The only time your matchup is favourable is if they literally just spawned and are below the 60kg weight

[keen plover]

juvie omni is bs anyways

[open flicker]

Which is less than 10 minutes of growth

[viscid mica]

I mean FG wise but ya hunting the smalls is fair game

I’m just saying omnis specifically are the true terror of the small/tiny tiers

[keen plover]

They should have never given juvi/sub omni that speed buff. It was fine before

[viscid mica]

https://tenor.com/view/pikachu-gif-13575853101874488635

[open flicker]

I mean yeah I think the pin is a rubbish game mechanic, but I don’t complain much bc I’m a 60kg troodon that takes 30 minutes to grow and really I know I shouldn’t be messing with 450kg omnis

[keen plover]

used to be like max 47.5km/h while growing (current dilo speed)

[open flicker]

But it’s just far more cringe when you’re a Gali at 425kg

[keen plover]

Then it became a 50km/h animal for some reason that straight up mauls dryo, herrera and everything tiny lol

[keen plover]

Pin is workable. I think the range it can pin stuff is absurd though. Galli is technically a 510kg animal and omni isn't a 450kg animal. So it looks off when it happens

[viscid mica]

I still can’t see how galli wouldn’t destroy omni if omni can’t pin

[open flicker]

Yeah 100% that’s more so my issue. It LOOKS like he shouldn’t be able to pin; which stuffs with the visual clarity

If not mess with the weights than make Gali visibly look smaller and have a smaller hitbox than Omni

Why should Gali be easier to hit if it is less weighty? Doesn’t make much sense to me

[viscid mica]

But galli looks so good tall

It’s a thin built Dino

It makes sense that it could be light

[open flicker]

When I get pinned by a raptor on troodon Atleast I KNOW hey this raptor is bigger than me I can’t take the pounce

But on Gali it’s so much harder to tell if that raptor is 100% or if it’s like 88% and under the 425 weight

[viscid mica]

I mean physically speaking galli is very slender while omni is a lot of muscle for its size

[open flicker]

Yeah but it doesn’t look like that in game, they’re massively bulky in the mid section, only place they’re lacking is the neck (which they have 3x more of than Omni anyways) and the legs

It looks like they should weight more regardless in game

I think pachy weight should be moved to 600kg bc they looks heavy as hell, and Gali should be put at 500

[viscid mica]

Uhhh

[open flicker]

Compared to Omni, pachy looks like a unit and it’s only 50kg more

[viscid mica]

You calling that massive?

Bro is thin! He a twig a true twink

[keen plover]

Not a good indicator. Get them next to each other in game and it's a big difference

[viscid mica]

Galli is tall that’s it

https://tenor.com/view/kaperoo-evrima-the-isle-gallimimus-gif-16177261441551388702

https://tenor.com/view/utahraptor-omniraptor-the-isle-kaperoo-evrima-gif-6253385259630425143

I mean if the difference in muscle density isn’t clear I don’t know what is

[open flicker]

Yeah they’re beefier for sure, but they’re significantly shorter and less long.

[keen plover]

The scale is different in game. Creature's aren't exactly the same size when shown in animations.

[open flicker]

I honestly think the pounce mechanic being reworked to only pin if you’re 25% heavier or even 50% would be a better change than weight adjustments

[viscid mica]

Agree to disagree

[keen plover]

A creature could be animated at X scale and be reduced in size when in game. Carno for example was much larger initially and when it was animated but it's scale was reduced. Pretty much not relevant to the in game sizes

[viscid mica]

Carno was sized down exclusively due to balancing issues

[viscid mica]

Ya tall and thin

[open flicker]

The difference just in the menu is quite drastic

[viscid mica]

Small and chunky

[keen plover]

Not a carno only thing. Teno was downsized in early evrima. Not sure about omni

[viscid mica]

Trust me just cuz something is tall doesn’t mean it’s heavy

[open flicker]

Yeah but it’s not JUST tall, it’s longer as well. It’s around the same size in the chest in game

[viscid mica]

Noooot really

They are nearly the same length

[keen plover]

Yeah galli is longer as well and the width is similar

[viscid mica]

But it’s thin

[keen plover]

So is omni

[open flicker]

What the game is trying to tell us regardless is “they weigh the same, we just wanted to make Omni able to pin galli”

That’s literally the only reason you would put it at 25kg smaller

And i think that’s a problem

[keen plover]

Galli was initially 510kg and was still pinnable

[viscid mica]

That would be fine by me why did it get reduced anyway?

[open flicker]

Atleast make it 450 so ONLY a FG raptor can pin a FG galli

[keen plover]

People were running around ganking carnos and ceras in the ST

[viscid mica]

Reasonable

[open flicker]

It’s dumb that a raptor at like 90% or something (don’t know exact growth) can pin a FG galli

[viscid mica]

I mean you still can do that pretty easily XD

[keen plover]

Tbf it still does that so it didn't change anything

Good thing about galli is that when modding ever happens, the only thing you need to alter is some numbers

[viscid mica]

Ya like it just reduced your health

[keen plover]

Doesn't need a rework or anything (like pachy)

[open flicker]

I mean a lot of people find the fun in the game to be the PVP so I think Dino’s should all have a chance to fight another Dino in the same weight class Atleast

[viscid mica]

Fair tbh I’ll probably avoid any unofficial that edits that stuff thou. I find few flaws with current balancing

[keen plover]

Galli was never able to fend off omni 1 v 1. Even when it was larger, all it could do was stagger omni

[open flicker]

Yeah at the same time I don’t think a stagger is warranted, so I think the pounce mechanic needs to be changed more than the weight of galli, but I don’t see that happening despite heaps of people asking for it

[keen plover]

I won't avoid them personally. I do like vanilla servers though. I think playing on different types of servers will be fun and prolong my enjoyability of the game

[viscid mica]

True true just on principle servers have a bad habit of using legacy rules that don’t work and rn there aren’t any amazing NA ones

[keen plover]

Personally I just want galli bleed back. That was what made omni's think twice

[viscid mica]

You take that to unofficial you monster

Galli with bleed is even worse than unpinnable galli

Instead of just omnis it’d affect the entire roaster

Insanely fast bleeder that you can never catch

[keen plover]

Maybe certain other dinos shouldn't suck

[viscid mica]

Hell na

Galli is great

[keen plover]

The bleed was fine. Nothing has changed though. Well tbf if galli still had bleed I'd be soloing carnos lol

[viscid mica]

This is my exact concern mannnnn

[keen plover]

Imo the bleed should have scaled. If you're close to gallis size, you do a lot of bleed. If you're much larger it drops off significantly

well rip

[open flicker]

Wait Gali lost its bleed??? Bruhhhh that’s so sad what

[open flicker]

True this is how it should’ve been

[keen plover]

tbf that wasn't even what made galli really good. But it did help.

Galli is still the same monster its always been

Galli trios can blender a carno so quickly it's hilarious

[open flicker]

Yeah but it still made sense, imagine being kicked by a cassowary and being like “nah those talons didn’t do nothing, only blunt force here!”

[keen plover]

Tbf that's why it had bleed in the first place. It just didn't work out well in practice

But yeah it should do bleed imo

[open flicker]

Now you’re making me wanna go bully some baby ceras 💀

Hate those suckers they’re everywhere

KOS all ceras

[keen plover]

Nothing can escape you. In groups you are pretty much guaranteed to slaughter every carnivore in your path and if it gets bad no issue, nothing can keep up

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1276309016267460648/galli_carno.mp4?ex=6810aba6&is=680f5a26&hm=08b63dc03eb73ca1551dd318fe02f4a283f075367f48f43937c5764f19877210&

[viscid mica]

[keen plover]

it's peak!!

[viscid mica]

Bro that is 1-1 my fear of why galli needs to be both pinnable and without bleed

[viscid mica]

That’s terrifying

[keen plover]

I mean would you die to a galli with that many carnos

[keen plover]

1 patch where both is true. Just 1 patch

[viscid mica]

No but the fact that’s it’s possible is scary especially with how fast galli is itd likely take me a minute to get my few hits I need

[viscid mica]

Galli would unironically dominate the servers

[worthy steeple]

oh.. not to be a nerd, but i fought 20+ vs 1… and not just one time, tenos strength really only depends on how good is your reaction time and how well you can fight, teno is probably the only playable that can afford to do absolutely WILD brawling. the second one is cera, but due to lack of cc it’s not as effective

tho sometimes there’s that one omni duo that are both 5k hours players and unhinged tryhards.. yeah then i sweat.

i was fighting 2 omnis on norden a while ago and they got me to orange health, so i guess it depends, but realistically even 8 omnis vs teno is fair fight lol

[viscid mica]

XD

[worthy steeple]

the greatest strength of omniraptor is the desync, they just fly around you, bite air and kill you

[worthy steeple]

yeah, this is just very wrong, sorry. and using terrain is not an option, it’s what you MUST do. and 2 good omnis are not beating a good teno realistically. teno is better brawler and ultimate defensive monster

#balance-feedback message yeah that’s wild, same with the teno, you need to drink every 25-30 minutes and that’s annoying as hell, but that’s how it was in legacy too i’m pretty sure, hadrosaurs needed a lot of water all the time

idk why exactly

[open flicker]

Yeah I’m saying if terrain isn’t an option. Like you’re in the middle of a plains biome or something, pretty much everywhere you are there’s some sort of terrain you can use to win. I mean in theory

[worthy steeple]

yeah, but even in plains there’s always a bush or a tree and then omnis are forced to bite you which means it’s super easy to bait them and kill

when i fight on dm server i usually give omnis advantage and dont camp the terrain for “fair” fight, even then they just dont have the stam to kill the teno

btw if you’re in plains you can always see them from great distance and run to camp the terrain

[open flicker]

That’s only because they’re using it wrong and not recovering it properly, if you’re chasing after one of them the other should be endlessly tail biting forcing you to stop

And they should never use more than 40%

[cosmic pelican]

Engaging and skillful gameplay for both parties

[open flicker]

So they can recover in the fight, as well as it being night time

Mid day it’s 20x harder for them

[cosmic pelican]

"Let me just stand next to this collisionless bush for the next 15 mins"

[keen plover]

Tbf if it wasn’t for those bushes Omni would be impossible to face

[elfin night]

Hence why it’s engaging and skillful for both parties

Either Omnis press rmb and win together

Or the prey just stands in a bush

[keen plover]

Those bushes don’t knock in the HT

[elfin night]

So omni is skillful

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah 😦

Really wish its power was more evenly distributed honestly

[keen plover]

Troodon is going to feast next patch as well

[keen plover]

True

[worthy steeple]

never chase them if you don’t want to bleed out

[cosmic pelican]

Oh yeaaaah. Its going to be a dilo heavy meta, and troodon unironically is probably the best counter to dilo.

[worthy steeple]

they don’t have a choice, they must attack me and if they don’t i will just trot away

[keen plover]

I still wish troodon was faster than dilo

[cosmic pelican]

As much as I want that, it would just create more desync sadly 😭

[keen plover]

Not saying it’s the correct balance choice but it would be funny

That’s why we nerf Omni and dilo speed

😁

[worthy steeple]

it’s honest a lot more fun when they need to bite you and engage instead of pressing one button and dealing passive damage..

[worthy steeple]

real

[cosmic pelican]

You say that because bucking is hot doodoo

[worthy steeple]

let’s nerf everyone’s speed👽
universal speed nerf please please please

[cosmic pelican]

If it wasnt, pounce wouldnt be so cancer

[worthy steeple]

even if it wasn’t…

it’s still so much damage

[cosmic pelican]

Not really

[worthy steeple]

predicting pounce is also close to impossible with this desync and hitboxes which makes it even worse

[cosmic pelican]

Its an average of ~200dmg if you get bucked off early

[worthy steeple]

yes really.. omnis do so much bleed

[worthy steeple]

that’s a lot lol😭

[elfin night]

dilo getting rolled by troodon is so funny

[elfin night]

https://youtu.be/4VlpZe6XEWQ?si=MlyFrD1xweB0iFPL so skillful and bucking truly is a helpful tool

lands two bites and wins

[cosmic pelican]

Tbf that dilo misplayed, reset its bucking like 3 times 😭

[worthy steeple]

it’s even worse with the pachy… dilo can at least run away from the omni

but it’s honestly all the same with the juvies, if you’re >900kg you will get killed by single omni pouncing you

can’t even do anything about it

[keen plover]

Loool. I bait dilos in the open all the time. It’s honestly sad seeing them die that quickly

[worthy steeple]

it just slows you down and then you die, buck doesn’t work yuppieee

[worthy steeple]

they’re getting taste of their own medicine heheh

[keen plover]

That slow effect is probably the most annoying addition the isle has had

I get it. That weight has to go somewhere. But in terms of gameplay it was a bad addition

[worthy steeple]

yeah…

at least they nerfed grapple, getting insta pinned by 2 omnis as a carno was wild

[keen plover]

I miss fighting Omni packs pre grapple as a solo pachy

[worthy steeple]

honestly i hate pounce in general… id love to fight omnis without constantly camping terrain

nowdays you either camp or you die in seconds

[elfin night]

still, omni had the upper hand because skilled pounce

meanwhile omni glazers saying that dilo is "almost impossible" because of lag

(I literally had to read that)

[hasty coyote]

my issue with pounce is that the max potential and the min potential are SO extreme. Guy is sitting in a bush? guess your pounce doesnt work. guy is in a flat open area? guess he dies because bucking is awful. While the average is roughly in the middle, its just so volatile that no one likes it. They really need to make bucking actually a good way to throw off omnis, while making terrain nowhere near as oppressive.

[cosmic pelican]

Beutifully said

[viscid mica]

Skill issue

[elfin night]

true

[worthy steeple]

that’s fair

[viscid mica]

@steep gazelle trikes done? It was its full kit does it not?

[worthy steeple]

hmm i’m not muen but ill answer…

so trike is somewhat ready id say, calls are still broken as hell and juvie sounds like adult and stuff, spar itself is very very laggy and seems unfinished animation wise… maybe it’s just me

also performance on HT is HORRIBLE, grass and lighting looks very bad and they’re probably just setting up stuff..

muen said it’s just trike HT, but there’s so many things going on at the same time…

i’d say they can make functional version with better performance and trike and then make it live branch

and then do “separate” HT for rex

[steep gazelle]

@worthy steeple said what I was going to say. Trike has the mechanics ready but there are still many adjustments to be made.

3 months with just an "incomplete" trike and probably another 3 with the rex...

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

Even if you DID make carno bigger, it still wouldnt be fighting stego, maia or diablo

[neon willow]

And even 1800 weight carno only needed 2-3 good headbutts before it was dead because of fractures.

Fractures are mechanically weird right now because they're all or nothing

If you dont fracture a body part then there's no effect and fracture based dinos like pachy get shredded because they can't escape. But if you do fracture its a pretty catastrophic debuff and that makes it very easy for fracture based dinos to be overbalanced

[hasty coyote]

yeah fractures really need a rebalance if theres any hope for stuff like pachy to have a good middle ground between unviable and op

[viscid mica]

Ah ok I was just confused about what you meant exactly

I know HT is a buggy mess

@pastel cliff don’t feel bad that carno is significantly faster than you he could just leave

He choose to challenge 2 Dino’s that primary attack is highly effective against them when they have horrible fracture resistance

[naive hemlock]

I'm sure its been discussed to death.

But quick question. Carno vs 2 dilos how often does a carno come out ontop? assuming full hp?

[cosmic pelican]

If the dilos are competent, and assuming venom works as it should, pretty much never

Though 2 dilos fold pretty much anything

[naive hemlock]

Gotcha. And im asusming making it a 2v2 doesn't change much for the carnos?

[cosmic pelican]

They will win most of the time during the day, nighttime would still be dilo favoured Id say

[naive hemlock]

Gotcha gotcha

Thanks for your input have a good day!

[elfin night]

@stray light manage your stamina better

problem solved

[kind plume]

#balance-feedback message
Idk if you know it, but if you keep your stamina above 65% (i think) then you can regenerate with walking, making it much easier to travel around, i hope this helps, and if you knew that, then just manage your stamina better

[worthy steeple]

real

[vale brook]

id say carno can win at night pretty easily

its very dependent on location imo

if you use terrain to your advantage and find spots where the carnos cant just spam ram you over and over, you should be able to win most of the time regardless of day/night cycle

[elfin night]

Even if bary cannot retaliate against deinos

I am certain that bary vs deino battles are gonna be absolute cinema

[half estuary]

#balance-feedback message
literally a skill issue

If you’re a stego any bigger than sub and you can’t kill two raptors that’s entirely on you

[elfin night]

@rigid rock I'm sorry, but that is a gargantuan skill issue

stegosaurus is a fairly risky fight as omni unless you are in a big coordinated group

[rigid rock]

Hes rly not

[steep gazelle]

Dilo can beat Carno even in the open and completely favorable place for Carno, if there is more than 1 Dilo then it is an easy victory

[rigid rock]

One jump and half od his bleed is gone

Makes no sense

[elfin night]

he really is. Omni is like the best thing in the carnivore roster vs stegos besides cera and still it's very risky because it has astonishing flank defense

[elfin night]

literally impossible unless you are a juvi

omni full stam bleed pounce doesn't do 3k blood damage

[rigid rock]

It does tho

[elfin night]

IT DOESNT

[rigid rock]

It does

[elfin night]

It factually doesn't

[rigid rock]

And the funny thing is when a raptor jumps on anyone hes invincible yay balances

D

[elfin night]

Also if this were true, then that means omnis would bleed out ceras with one full bleed pounce if they don't sit down

[elfin night]

one power swing as they mid air and they lost all their progress

[rigid rock]

Whos gonna have enough time to react in like point 1 second and hold right click and then left click

[half estuary]

Again I reiterate, skill issue

[elfin night]

you can tell with their body language bruh

and it's not that short of a time frame

[half estuary]

I’ve literally seen whole packs of omnis get shredded by a single stego

[elfin night]

you can parry most omnis on reaction

[rigid rock]

They do the same thing everytime g

[rigid rock]

I havent

[elfin night]

if you lost 6k blood to two omnis that is completely on you

and the omnis did a BRILLIANT job

actually surprised they pulled that off

[rigid rock]

Not rly one uses all his stam and goes to regen while the other keeps me busy

And thats how u kill anything

[elfin night]

dont allow multiple long pounces on you then

[vale brook]

the humble bush:

[elfin night]

just go to water or a tree or a BUSH

or you know what???

[half estuary]

I need you to realize that you maybe might not be the best at the game and that that’s not a reflection of the games balance

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/hitting-the-ball-major-league-baseball-baseball-swing-swinging-the-bat-jackson-chourio-gif-6521918673038840215

this also works ^

try it next time

[rigid rock]

I could if stego wasnt the slowest land dino in the game

[elfin night]

bruh

you dont need speed if you are fighting two omnis

you can straight up trot or run towards one single tree and now they cant pounce

or you can just use your super quick power swing and there you go

the moment they jump you kill them

[rigid rock]

They can from the other side f

[elfin night]

then you move slightly and run it

[rigid rock]

U cant tell if they are gonna jump or not

[elfin night]

stop coping please

[elfin night]

you can

[rigid rock]

They can switch sides???

[elfin night]

wasting their precious stamina

and if they mess up they die

I think you really don't know the key requirements to play stego decently

no offense

[rigid rock]

I do i have played stego many times

And i can easily kill ceras too

[cosmic pelican]

"Omni is so op!"
Omni:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1312562061863026789/1342967080458125352/Untitled_video_-_Made_with_Clipchamp_3.mp4?ex=6815350f&is=6813e38f&hm=a7844c7a7620e4dbffd23faf5f475f2dfbab6017713c24d8a07538561e7d168a&

[rigid rock]

Which u said was the best for killing stegos

[cosmic pelican]

One colissionless bush and its joever

[elfin night]

That is not indicative of someone knowing all about their playable

ceras are easy pickings too

[rigid rock]

Thats completly on u

[rigid rock]

U said thet were the best for killing stegos dude

[elfin night]

a key of playing stego is looking more at your opponent and how they move rather than yourself. You need to understand what they will do next and capitalize on their mistakes

[cosmic pelican]

Guess you shoulve used it then

[half estuary]

The irony of this statement is gonna kill me

[rigid rock]

I was doing exactly that

[cosmic pelican]

But honestly Im just baffled how a fully grown stego can lose to 2 omnis, that hunt mustve taken HOURS

[elfin night]

Not the best, I would say omni is better

And also best is relative. Everything else is just awful against stego other than dibble

and trike ofc

[elfin night]

then you wouldn't have died to two omnis

[rigid rock]

Thats not how it works

[half estuary]

Yes it literally is

[elfin night]

clamping down on player skill expression is crazy

[half estuary]

This has to be bait

[elfin night]

just learn from your mistakes and get good the next time

they would have needed like FIVE OR SIX FULL STAM bleed pounces to kill you

If they pulled that off and you didn't kill any, then they simply were much better and came out on top

[cosmic pelican]

You dont even need to be good at stego to fend off 2 omnis, even if its your first time ever playing it, just stand next to a tree or shallow water the omnis have to swim in and they literally cant do anything to you.

[elfin night]

I remember my literal first time playing a fg stego in gateway with power swing (never played it in spiro)

7 omnis pulled up, I went to a waterfall cliff and I killed 5 of them as they tried to pounce my side

[cosmic pelican]

From experience, if the stego just stands still, it may take up to 10 depending on how its vitals are and how much it can stall between pounces

[elfin night]

How can you get bodied so hard by 2 😭 and as someone who played stego before

[elfin night]

true, but I'm assuming he didnt because that would imply the position was good

and you gotta do everything wrong to die like that

As an omni you need like 100 head bites on a stego to kill it

💀

and stego only needs one tail base shot with either tail attack

[haughty grotto]

@rigid rock you have got to be trolling right?
I think that's a sarcastic post?
Omnis bleed is pretty weak tbh and needs a buff.

A stego can kill 4-5 omnis with ease. EASE.
After 6 it becomes slightly harder but still heavily stego favored.
A pack of 8+ omnis, all amazing players, with luck on their side, with the stego being alone in open terrain for 10-15 minutes, can maybe take a stego down, and that's still a maybe. A few omnis will still die.

Your post shocks me.

[steep gazelle]

@rigid rock How do you manage to lose being a Stego to 2 omnis? HOW?

[elfin night]

bro is getting roasted for that fumble

[neon willow]

I nearly did to a solo Omni once. But to be fair, I wasn't full grown (sub) and more importantly I had never played stego before (eg I was VERY bad at predicting what they were gonna do). I didn't die because the person playing the Omni was a friend (which is why they knew where I was in the first place)

But in short - you lose a stego to 2 omnis by being really bad at predicting what other players are going to do next

[steep gazelle]

Just don't be hasty and keep using the swingpower Every time you think they're going to attack

Whether it's Ceratos or Omnis, they won't attack you until you have no stam. So don't be hasty, don't fall in any false attack they make

[neon willow]

This is great advice, except that at the time this was still Spiro... So power swing didn't exist yet 😅

[dusky surge]

you know its bad when this dude is praising the omnis

[elfin night]

so true LMAO

I, the ultimate omni hater

admitting that they for once did something good

[floral mauve]

Nerf carnos hit box slightly. Like 10% in terms of size. That is all. Make it stop hitting things that aren’t even close to it.

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

can't wait for the inevitable sequel: "Rex is absurdly overtuned — Stegosaurus stands no chance, even in the open"

also @vapid canopy deino recently got a buff for the sake of drowning stego, so it absolutely can do that

[hasty coyote]

@vapid canopy first off, stego's running power swing deals 2250, its spamable power swing deals 1800.
Second, the matchup is currently very fair as both only die when they make the mistake. If the stego goes in the water, it gets grabbed and drowns. If deino goes on land, it gets constantly swung at until it dies because it lacks the speed to stay on stego's head. If both decide to not fight to the death, neither dies.

No damage change on stego will change the fact that it can just run forward, swing at your head, and then run again before you get close enough to reach the head (unless you make it deal basically 0 damage). And even if you make stego self-stun for long enough that deino is able to get to the head, stego can just keep out of range until you run out of stam, then spam swing. So you arent killing the stego no matter what. Not to mention if you do either of these, stego will literally become walking fodder to most of the roster.

And deino doesnt need any combat buffs. It hunts with lunge, and 500 damage is enough to make the majority of the roster leave you alone, its barely less than trike's 600 damage attacks. For anything it can't handle with lunge, 8k hp, 500 bite force, and bleed res, deino can easily just sit in water and not engage.

[slim dragon]

"no way to escape"
The humble water :

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message @lavish pagoda maybe the root problem should be addressed instead of that

“why dosen’t it get punished for eating too much” kinda its whole thing lol

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

i dont understand the roundabout logic we always get

cera/deino can eat as much as they want
being colossal scavengers that can't be forced to vomit, this makes sense
gastronomic is added
suddenly, this ability becomes insanly overpowered, but only if this mutation is equipped
get rid of the ability and keep the mutation
now we have an overpowered mutation and less identity for cera and deino
perfect

[elfin night]

@vapid canopy bruh, deino isn’t meant to be going for stegos on land due to its intended role and how unfair it would be for larger creatures to be vulnerable to deino as they’re noisier, larger targets that also turn much slower than most of its current prey while they drink.

Stego is already getting very solid competition this HT with trike and rex, so we really don’t need to buff deino’s already sufficient lethality (as if that was something that would fix ANYTHING, since people would then just use safe spots even as stegos and you would have achieved nothing to favor Deino), but rather a rework to make it not garbage is needed

And stego isn’t overtuned in a vacuum and it has been proven by trike. It’s as tuned and powered as it should be in a complete ecosystem, it’s just that it is much larger than everyone else. It likely needs a buff even

I-in real life deinosuchus was a gigantic 90 foot long armored beast that could snap an aircraft carrier in half with just one bite and its teeth were coated in enriched, fast decaying uranium isotopes that will poison whatever it bites on top of shooting lasers through its eyes and even making lunges easier by propelling itself forward with a rocket in its cloaca!!!

/lh

Whenever I hear deino or carno comparisons irl in balance feedback I just cackle

[slim dragon]

irl carno hunted sauropods

So it's only fair that in The Isle carno will be able to stand against a brachiosaurus

[elfin night]

true

irl carnotaurus could destroy Tyrannosaurus

#balance-feedback message So fair and balanced

omni truly is so weak and unplayable stat wise

draining stamina passively by just staying there

or brutally slowing down some playables to the point that pachies +15m away from good anti pounce terrain just die

[rapid flume]

a lot of sorta 'griefing' tools need to be looked at and adjusted, like omni draining deinos stam or cera making apexes vomit with a couple bites

[elfin night]

PARA GANG

https://tenor.com/view/captain-america-avengers-assemble-gif-22306281

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/avengers-endgame-portals-gif-22170214

us fr

[elfin night]

Enduring the push of soy carnivore fans and their mass produced slop 🔥 🔥

[worthy steeple]

real 🗣️🔥

para is PEAK

honestly idk if they’ll make para 6-7t, but something like 5t sounds reasonable

but elder.. well i want elder to be GIANT

[slim dragon]

Like, 5.1t ?

[elfin night]

I think 5t sounds lame

Because Maia is 4 already and shant easily +15

There’s a huge gap for para in there

6-7 ton adult and 9-10 ton elder

[worthy steeple]

para bigger than the stego… hmm

[elfin night]

Meanwhile deino getting its 1600N bite 15 ton elder

Only fair because deinosuchus was the ultimate killing machine to have ever existed. Megalodon teeth have been found inside its belly

[elfin night]

Why not, stego won’t have any trouble with that

[worthy steeple]

i think dondi showed para in game on stream, it wasn’t really that big

[elfin night]

And para won’t be 3 tapping deinos

[tropic horizon]

Yeah stego would Curbstomp para

[elfin night]

More or less stego size

Omni is seems from this that’s it is almost as tall as para’s knee

Please, isle devs, don’t let me down…

[worthy steeple]

well hmm good arguments tbh

[elfin night]

Looks huge

[worthy steeple]

yeah it seems pretty big on the concept art

[elfin night]

Much larger than Maia

[elfin night]

It dwarfs the acro 😭 😭 😭

Let alone allos

[elfin night]

It looks big everywhere in the concepts and then it is like about stego size if not a smidge bigger in the actual model

🙏 give us a good, meaty para

[worthy steeple]

hmm meow meow..

good point good point

[elfin night]

Legacy para was such a dwarf

3600kg 💔

[worthy steeple]

i mean rex was 6t or so, cera was like 2t utah was 1t

weight in legacy was just a number for damage calculations

[elfin night]

Idc, para gang

Para was done so dirty in survival

[worthy steeple]

it was truly horrible

[elfin night]

Longer stam regen than gateway ptera

[worthy steeple]

fr, not to mention absolutely horrible attack hitbox and awful trot speed

[elfin night]

Yeah

Only good herbis were: dryo, dibble, maia (in need of a nerf) and galli (in need of a nerf)

Para and pachy were awful, and then trike was mid

While all carnis except cera were reasonably viable or even solid

I for example don’t think sucho was bad at all. Like maybe a B tier playable despite performing so poorly into giga and rex

[worthy steeple]

yeah

tho cera was good too, it just had some issues

[elfin night]

You just used your godly water movement and stam and all problems vanished

[elfin night]

Bleed

Allosaurus

Cera was solid on no alt turn but you know, that was cringe

[worn sentinel]

@worthy steeple what was wrong with my comment abt trike and rex? not having a crack just genuinely interested

[worthy steeple]

spar was something devs worked on for ages and i don’t think it’s a good idea to scrap it, in fact it’s probably the thing im most exited for to see in this HT, one of the devs said that they’re aware that it might be 2v1 and there will be a different strat when there’s one rex against the trike or when there’s two rexes against one trike, i don’t it’s fair to discuss this when we don’t even know how spar will function..

i’d say we wait till rex and trike are both in HT and then we discuss, but i bet it’s gonna be fun

[worn sentinel]

nah i wasnt saying to scrap it cause i like it for herbi herds sparring matches are always the funnest stuff to see, just worried abt being pinned in a spot where u cant do anything but i guess such is life in those sorta situations

[worthy steeple]

i bet there will be a strat to counter 2 rexes as one trike

well we’ll see ig xd

[worn sentinel]

yep hope it doesnt end up like canni dibbles where u are just stuck

[worthy steeple]

oh no.. yeah that sucks

[elfin night]

@compact cypress what are your honest thoughts on the idea of para being deino sized?

[worn sentinel]

im not pale emperor but i love the idea of a chunky asf para, huge paras walking through deltas would be sick as

along with them having the coolest loudest calls

[worthy steeple]

REAL!

elder para is soooo good

!!!!!

[worn sentinel]

im hyped for para and my GOAT anky👑

paras moving through delta calling is gonna be majestic asf tho

[elfin night]

Also because but herbi that isn’t a combat tank for once

[worn sentinel]

agreed, I love maia but idk i want a hadrasaur thats just massive and its stun scream looks funny asf to use

[worthy steeple]

hmm idk what you mean by “combat tank” but i want para to be a good brawler…

[viscid mica]

@vapid canopy stegos entire design is apex slayer and deino is designed for deleted mid sized Dino’s and below not large and above ya don’t go after a stego that’s on land

Deino is not a brawler

[elfin night]

Dont get me wrong, para should probably be able to deal with things like allos just fine

[floral mauve]

Carno needs some work. The hitbox is incredibly buggy, this has been reported for months. It's a guaranteed hit with no manual input. It hits things that, anyone can see aren't even close. The charge should require timing of release either releasing the rmb button or clicking lmb while holding rmb down during the charge. But most importantly, just fix the ridiculous hitbox that has had BILLIONS of complaints for months.

[elfin night]

But I think it would be cool that, considering that a 7 ton para would share weight class with theri (theri probably lighter though), stego and anky, it is cool to have it

Since it doesn’t brutally lean into combat

It’s also a good runner with decent mobility

[elfin night]

Git gud

(Yeah a small shrink to the hitbox would be helpful)

[compact cypress]

@elfin night honestly game is a mix of bio engineering , paleo and balancing.

in game herbis if big without horns or spikes are actually in a bad zone...maia etc

para being 10 m in real life will be just another maia. even if 12 m 14 m etc

speed balencing will get hard when the allo family is added carcha giga allo....even acro etc ....this would make life of spike less herbi lot dangerous....

big herbi tend to be given less speed

https://tenor.com/view/prehistoric-park-gif-18317622390607313038

[elfin night]

Length isn’t everything

And Maia isn’t necessarily in a bad spot because of not having horns or dedicated weapons built in its body

Also what do you mean by that first line? I never got it

[compact cypress]

i explained what isle is as a game

[elfin night]

Oh okay

Either way, para gang

[elfin night]

Para can just run away from larger carnivores or just pummel those that can catch up to it

I know punch kinda tripped once and it was very funny (without any hard feelings about it) when saying why would para go toe to toe against an allo, when it is absolutely plausible for it to fend off one

Doubt that para is gonna get ran down by no ambush Rex, a spino, a giga or an acro

[compact cypress]

if you really are reliant on speed....you are defenseless and everything will target you.... running away is a good thing but you are vulnerable and can be extremely unlucky....when rex , giga, spino and every carni 4 ton above is around a 5-6 ton herbi without spikes is great food and even herbis such as trike stego etc considering herbis kill more herbis than carni....you could starve or die as spike dino will chase you in a patrol zone

[elfin night]

Only reliant on speed against acro and above really

Para doesn’t look dumb going against an Alberto or Allo in a fight

Plus para does have the sound ability to stub or even deafen predators

[compact cypress]

not a very good idea as allo is 3 + ton.....it has grapple which could deal dangerous bleed like the raptor

[elfin night]

And if para is 6 tons then that means you’re gonna have to deal a lot of damage as allo

[compact cypress]

carni dont rely on sound when fighting medium dino...bleed is enough to track

[elfin night]

While not getting stomped into the dirt

[elfin night]

We don’t even know what it will do

[compact cypress]

they could give it a ram

[elfin night]

Maybe it could be like a pseudo fracture to the head reducing your damage, or affects your movement or abilities by disorienting you.

[compact cypress]

it does have a horn

[elfin night]

How? It is a para

NO? NO IT DOESNT

It has a crest, one that is hollow

And blunt tipped

And curved all the way backwards

Even para having a headbutt looks dumb imo

[tropic horizon]

Para ram would look goofy

[elfin night]

Just give it a sound stun and then good attacks like some front kick and a back one

Just like Maia really, although maybe more proficient at combat so ceras are a total non issue

[compact cypress]

i wonder how they will balance para

it was the worst of legacy

[tropic horizon]

Considering how they handled Maia, probably decently well

[elfin night]

I know realism doesn’t matter, but I will leave this here since elders could also be a possibility for good size increases and also para’s model currently in game is ENORMOUS (bit larger than stego, although in concepts it looks far larger than that)

[compact cypress]

The combination of big medium carni and herbi would make the life of spike less herbi a lot difficult in the future

[elfin night]

Obviously para won’t be 11 tons like that one

But 7 is still MUCH larger than an allo

It kicking a lone allo to death wouldn’t look that far fetched. It’s like expecting HT Maia to destroy ceras 1v1, and it does

And naturally para wouldn’t look dumb fleeing a giga, spino, acro or rex

[compact cypress]

this is a 4 to 6 ton dino

then it will be maia like

[elfin night]

Not at all

A Maia is MUCH smaller than what we have of para lol

It’s like comparing pre shrink carno with cera

You can clearly tell how massive para is

[compact cypress]

this will stand

[elfin night]

We can be almost certain that para won’t be below 5t at all

Because it’s just absurd. Not only it contradicts the evidence but also why make it overlap with Maia when the other hadrosaur is shant and para is grounded anywhere between 5 up to 10 tons

[elfin night]

Not really

[compact cypress]

estimated speed ?

[elfin night]

Since spikes and horns aren’t the only valid survival strategies

[elfin night]

We don’t know, but it can be speculated. Obviously I expect it to be faster than Rex (29) but slower than dibble even if marginally (36)

So maybe it could be like…34 maybe? Like in legacy? But it’s all speculation

[compact cypress]

then allo could shred it

[elfin night]

Either way, I really cannot see how is Alberto or Allo gonna do any harm reliably to something like a +5 ton para

Maia is just ass in the live branch because of certain changes that were partially reverted in HT

[elfin night]

Why?

[compact cypress]

think of allo being a big raptor 3 ton +......ever see raptor vs dibble

[elfin night]

It’s like saying a horse willing to fight gets shredded by a black bear

(A black bear would never bother doing that)

[elfin night]

And it sure won’t have enough stamina to kill it with one pounce

And it is far less agile than Omni

Saying it is going to get shredded is kinda disingenuous

[compact cypress]

it bleed out....plus more speed

[elfin night]

It’s not gonna let you do as much bleed damage as possible

And who cares if it has more speed

[compact cypress]

shredding means cutting continuously...allo sill chase and keep bleed....it would be able to chase....worst would be carcha....faster than giga

if you bleed out...no matter the damage you will die

[elfin night]

If we are right and para is 6-7 tons minimum, it would be very much like the one in the right LOL

[slim dragon]

It was Kissen

[elfin night]

How do you know Carch is faster than giga when it isn’t even confirmed? It’s just randos in the community advocating for it

And you would need so many hits for a para to bleed out if it has 6000 blood. It’s like saying it would be easy for an allo to bleed out a steg except that there’s no reason as for why para shouldn’t get bleed resistance

[elfin night]

Oh well

[worn sentinel]

it should probs be faster than dibble cause even tho its heavier its legs are longer and its more built to run away so probs faster than dibble but maybe not faster than teno/cera

[elfin night]

Maybe

[slim dragon]

Imagine if para ends up being faster than allo tho

[elfin night]

But not by much, depends on size

[worn sentinel]

yeah i was thinking around 39-41

maybe around pachy speed

[elfin night]

Rip ceras (potentially)

[elfin night]

Also rip pachy

And teno

[worn sentinel]

yeah but ceras are meant to be a scavanger and not hunting all the time

[elfin night]

The idea of a single allo managing to “shred” a 6+ ton para is so absurd to me

[worn sentinel]

i mean allo is meant to be the lion of the isle and ceras are more scavangers so allos are probs gonna stomp a cera, itll also probs be quick but not great stam so teno and pachy if they dont get ambushed will most likely be able to escape

[elfin night]

The Lion of the Jurassic

True mainstream slop

[worn sentinel]

i wasnt talking about that, more just looking at what it said in the concept art

[worthy steeple]

100%

[tropic horizon]

WOOO FREE MONEY WOOOO LOOK GUYS

NOOOO IT VANISHED

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/emoji-in-distress-emoji-sad-emoji-disappearing-emoji-disintegrating-seokvrse-gif-25237004

[elfin night]

So unfair

I wanted to click it and get my 50 buck steam card

[elfin night]

true

but I still think Allo is popular soy slop

[worn sentinel]

Idk it’s cool but not my cup of tea when it comes to dinosaurs

[elfin night]

Omni, Deino and Allo are mainstream mass produced soulless content

Whereas Magy, Para and Troodon are chad top G sigma grind dinomaxxed content

/j

[elfin night]

@primal heart I will pursue you until the end of time

[hasty coyote]

@elfin night just a small note, there’s a reason why there aren’t any large, fast, combat oriented herbivores… because being faster and stronger is a balance nightmare for this game lol. You have to give them so many handicaps to help other things escape (especially since many of the bigger Dino’s don’t have escape mechanics) that the Dino would be useless. Look at Maia, that thing has less damage on most of its attacks than a teno, hefty stam costs, and the worst turn in the game thus far. And still Maia can be incredibly oppressive towards smaller dinos in the right hands.

[elfin night]

Well, you absolutely can limit them through more ways than just speed, damage or health

[worthy steeple]

for example?!

[elfin night]

Agility (maia), the way a playable’s strongest attacks come from or the setup requirement (teno) and also limitations to where one can thrive or being less adept in other environments or the water (carno) are examples that come to mind

[worthy steeple]

hmm yeah good examples

[hasty coyote]

Agility ain’t gonna matter when everyone at that size is turning like a bus. Tho making its offensive attacks very poor could work, you could end up with the faster one just biting you to death and then bullying you if you ever turned to fight. And water is unreliable at best for most things (especially larger Dinos), having them get stuck in the forest like Maia atm could help, but still isn’t ideal.

Basically being strong AND fast isn’t ideal as it causes a lot of problems (look at carno for a prime reason why) and it gets exponentially worse as you get larger since larger dinos don’t have escape mechanics like the smaller ones do and they turn slower, which means the agility difference will not matter much. Overall, it’s generally more trouble than it’s worth to design an animal to go against the basic balancing principles of the game.

[elfin night]

You are correct

But this is also a spectrum

I for example don’t really think that para should be (or at least not much) faster than something like Alberto or Allo if it is going to be stego sized at least

So it wouldn’t really be bullying anything

I think it absolutely should outrun acros and suchos, but obviously not have good odds against them

[hasty coyote]

That is fair, it just needs to not run into the Maia problem of being faster than things 1/10th of its size.

[elfin night]

I want to say that’s easy to accomplish

Considering that para has much less to worry about than maia if it gets to be basically only a reliable prey (accounting solo hunters) to apexes

Wouldn’t be an issue with it being relatively speedy without being oppressive towards things like allos and barys

[hasty coyote]

30-35kph para should be fine, pending what dinos may fit within that range. But any faster and there will be foreseen consequences

[elfin night]

Agreed

Maia only needs to spring almost as fast as an Omni because it is much smaller and therefore has to put up with many other speedy threats

But something like old legacy para speed would work just fine

I strongly doubt any apex carnivore is gonna run faster than 33-34 other than Rex with ambush

Otherwise dibble is cooked

[vale brook]

to be fair... its kissen and thats not exactly what she said iirc

and shes very particular about her words

i think she was moreso trying to imply and inject the standard "we give you what you need to survive" mindset they have

para will probably be like maia where its intended to run from threats but can and will defend itself should the need arise

[elfin night]

Its fair

I just had a very vague memory of it but it’s all good

[vale brook]

no i get it

i just know she specifically is very careful with her wording

due to everything before

troodon.... 2022..,.,,

[stark knoll]

Precisely

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message wait cera was mention in devblog?

am i blind

[worthy steeple]

oh nice

watch it being another buff

i will revolt

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-mmm-cheesy-cheese-cheesy-gif-19257011

[crimson crater]

people always believe the devs favor a particular playable, watch it be a nerf

[elfin night]

I strongly agree with this honestly

While para shouldn’t be a brawler, I think it would be ridiculous if it couldn’t take on a single allo

But I agree with the hypothetical of making it much worse if there’s more than one

[vale brook]

i imagine para will have the same issue maia has where the moment more than one show up, you just cant dish out the damage on them properly anymore

you have low damage already so you really need to focus it all into one animal, so the moment you have to start spending stamina to damage other creatures as well..

[worthy steeple]

i feel like there’s just playables that get more attention than others

i think some balance changes were made to make the ecosystem better

[steep gazelle]

Well, if they don't see how out of their niche and op the Cerato and also the Dilo are, unfortunately we can't do anything about it

[hasty coyote]

like the last time cera bacteria got "nerfed" lmao

[hasty coyote]

pachy literally rotting in the corner after not getting changed in basically a year

[crimson crater]

it got reduced by 50%, still bad but yea

[worthy steeple]

crying

[hasty coyote]

I mean the one previous to it, where it got nerfed to be affected by weight, but was just a severe buff. Even after the nerf its still an overall major buff.

[cosmic pelican]

"Hey Islanders!

As many of you have been requesting, we have nerfed the ceratosaurus' bile application by an additional 50%! But to compensate for this nerf, we also buffed its bleed resistance to 99%"

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stare-staring-cat-cat-mr-fresh-fresh-gif-4714710619997780774

[cosmic pelican]

Cheesy

[worthy steeple]

hello..

[dusky surge]

@elder wolf right click blocks, it does no damage. I agree trike is clunky tho

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message what cera nerfs, and stego dosen’t need to be more asthmatic and reliant on a mutation than it already is

[rapid flume]

check announcements

[crimson crater]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-falling-fast-gif-18043850

[dusky surge]

(Cera honestly got more buffs than nerfs ngl lol)

You can flat out ignore the speed and stam penalty

[rapid flume]

I feel like 10% isn't enough of a decrease

[dusky surge]

Well until it’s fully charged, it’s 0%

lmao

[rapid flume]

yeah

[crimson crater]

it also got a nerf to its bacteria

[dusky surge]

Not really

[rapid flume]

not much

not the application

[dusky surge]

I’m anything, bacteria is a LOT better

[crimson crater]

in what way

[dusky surge]

It takes AGES to decay without a salt lick

[thorn mountain]

30 mins to decay from half

[rapid flume]

is that universal?

[thorn mountain]

I dunno I tested it on carno

possibly linked to hunger drain?

[rapid flume]

that would make sense

[elfin night]

@rancid sluice how would you nerf cera? Isn’t it good to give limits to the charged bite?

[jovial vessel]

gasps is cera finally getting some nerfs to that stupid charge bite

[rapid flume]

some nerfs, some buffs

[jovial vessel]

charge bite costing stam is fantastic, i hate that mechanic being so spammable

[rapid flume]

aparently it's very little cost, plus it only starts when it reaches full charge

[jovial vessel]

[elfin night]

I mean

Better than nothing. Also reducing it to almost dibble speed and making the end not instant are good changes

[jovial vessel]

at least theyre finally doing something yeah lol

cera has been a plague for too long

[knotty stratus]

I will be back to explain why cerato is still busted

[rapid flume]

I really think the speed nerf should be from the moment it starts charge biting

[jovial vessel]

yes, please

cerato shouldnt be a pursuit hunter its got so much stam and speed

[knotty stratus]

You never have to slow down to hunt the dibble because speed nerf isnt instant you can reset your charge bite and never slow down

you can reach max damage before speed debuff kicks in

[jovial vessel]

ughhh

[elfin night]

I know…😔

[knotty stratus]

Its even more busted now its not a nerf

[jovial vessel]

why do the devs want ceratos to be broken forever

[knotty stratus]

its step in the right direction but needs more tweaks

speed debuff should be instantly

and should cost more stam

[jovial vessel]

absolutely and the charge bite should consume stam - YES

everyone elses attacks do lmao

[elfin night]

At least ceras are going to be more predictable and can’t just wait for an opening ig

But I already posted my thoughts on it

[cosmic pelican]

Its like 0.05% per second

Basically only there to stop stamina regen

[elfin night]

I think it should be like 0.2% at max charge tbh

Or maybe only drain that stam if you are moving

[worthy steeple]

it’s not instant?

[knotty stratus]

no

just play like old cerato never hold your charge for too long

you can reach your max damage even shorter time 🙂

[worthy steeple]

LOL

wait a second

so it’s basically forever insta charge + cc resistance + bacteria buff for not even instant speed nerf?

so you can just spam charge bite instead of holding

[knotty stratus]

sounds about right

avoid maia and teno knockdown

[cosmic pelican]

Dont forget its new 99% bleed resistance!

[worthy steeple]

bro

is this for real….

[keen plover]

Excuse me

[cosmic pelican]

Dont you remember first ht patch

[knotty stratus]

when i saw the patch notes it looked like a nerf but nah 💀

[worthy steeple]

no i know

[cosmic pelican]

Unless its changed, it should still be in

[worthy steeple]

i mean did they really give cera all those buffs without even making charge bite slow it down immediately

so it’s not even a debuff

[worthy steeple]

same lol

[cosmic pelican]

Only nerf really is being able to gain bile only from rotten stuff

But like, take 3 chunks out of a body, let them rot, you have full bile

[keen plover]

Meat chunks 💔

[knotty stratus]

Make meat chunks not rot and despawn

[rapid flume]

organs though

[worthy steeple]

oh i didn’t even notice that in patch notes

[cosmic pelican]

Or just nerf bile intake from rotten meat to the same amount it gains from fresh meat on live

So youd need 10 chunks for max bile

[worthy steeple]

bro i was so happy for like half an hour

and now i’m playing cera on HT and i can’t even notice that speed nerf

[cosmic pelican]

Bow down to the cera and dilo meta

[worthy steeple]

deer got me to orange health

cera got new spawn

also grass physics are working

[cosmic pelican]

??

WAIT DOES THAT MEAN MAYBE TROODON GOT NEW SPAWNS TOO

[worthy steeple]

i’ll show you ss, one sec

[cosmic pelican]

Thats just sp spawn 😭

[worthy steeple]

i mean, cera didn’t have that spawn before

look at the red dot

[knotty stratus]

you dont spawn in the plains anymore

[worthy steeple]

hm interesting

[maiden temple]

Omg finally cera charge is not free

We've been heard