balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

it was good til the basekit part

literally thats what protein diet is for

you eat it and get a rising health regen buff

[daring yoke]

ok you can ommit the built in mechanic part, but if everyone picks it maybe people don't want to wait 15min in bushes to heal so why not make game more fun?

[slim dragon]

Everyone picks it because it gives an unfair advantage over those who don't have it

[daring yoke]

true, but what was my point is that currently regen is too slow

[slim dragon]

There are better ways to make healing engaging that do not involve making carnivores able to regen mid-fight

[slim dragon]

It is when you're used to using gastro regen

The point is to have people not want to pick every fight they come across

[daring yoke]

still I think regen needs to be just a bit faster and gastro needs a rework

[dusky surge]

regen is perfectly valid speed atm

you're meant to not want to take damage

being injured is meant to be a punishment, to encourage you to avoid exceptionally risky fights

gastro letting you ignore that downside isn't something that should be made basekit

[daring yoke]

Yeah I told you, you can skip that part. I'm saying that it's just feels off putting to have to wait so long to heal. My point is not to make it easier to fight constantly with no punishment for getting damaged. Just to recover from a fight a bit faster, not completly negating current system.

[elfin night]

Why are dilo and deino designs so garbage 😭

[golden coral]

Hm?

[golden coral]

Explain?

[elfin night]

they suck so much for everyone involved

deino is pretty obvious due to water visibiity/audio and safe spots, and then dilo takes a cool concept and turns it into a gamble of "I bite you and I do x10 times extra bites" or "I bite and do nothing"

they are so ass for everyone involved

[golden coral]

I guess, I'd like it if there were some kind of quick movement/"lunge miss" kind of mechanic, so you could react, but in turn remove safe spots, so you always have to be at risk, just now you can get away easier if you react in time. For dilo, I think it's cause of the whole "can't hide behind someone else" deal they wanted, hence clones have to do what they do.

[dusky surge]

i actually think dilo is worse designed than deino lmao

honestly, cera too

[elfin night]

at least cera isn't miserable for itself

[steep gazelle]

This should also change, but the pounce hitbox is very large, so much so that this is the main reason why omnis hit each other so much during a fight.

And no, I didn't copy this suggestion from anyone, because I already made a similar suggestion a while ago...

[elfin night]

@unique dagger 8-9 hours with what conditions(diet)?

[unique dagger]

7-8 with diet

8-9 with out

[stark knoll]

That's now how diet buffs work

[unique dagger]

I know

[elfin night]

Bad

[elfin night]

What? Bad

Because not only this is absolutely not how diets work

But gugh

If this is implying it’s only 7-8 hours on 100%…

[unique dagger]

On a good diet

like 200% growth boost

It just should not be a fast grow then everyone is going to be a rex.

[elfin night]

If we want those numbers, I think 12-13 hours should be fine

And then 8-9 on 300% constantly

[waxen trench]

its also not helped by the fact that its gon be the only carnivore that can hurt big herbs

the other option is cera

[unique dagger]

12-13 would take people like 3 days but I don’t really care the most fun part is the survival before fg

[elfin night]

12-13 would take people like 3 days

Good thing

there should be no more than like half a dozen rexes per server

it needs to be the ultimate filter playable and growth time helps

[golden coral]

I don't think you're meant to grow an apex in one go, so doing it over a few days is probably expected

[iron tree]

I mean apexes should be difficult to grow and rex will have different niches throughout its life

That's both a good and a bad thing

Its growth won't be boring as your dinosaur keeps changing

On the other hand you've to compete with a lot of different predators

[junior wagon]

I proposed making cerato faster, not much ask 40.2 -> ~45 to compete with herbivores that all seem to be faster(teno, maia) and in the future Rex will just run down poor cerato especially with the current speeds. It seems a Carno main downvoted it, it's not much of ask because it's still slower than ur carno and they also plan to buff carno weight.

[knotty stratus]

wdym carno main 💀 are you suggesting cerato should be 45km/h ? Also between cera and teno theres only 0.1km/h difference loll

[keen plover]

Now why would a rex be able to run down a cerato? Are you referring to a fg or?

[junior wagon]

That difference is pretty big considering their real life speeds and the current weight.

[knotty stratus]

if we are talking about real stats cerato shouldnt even be close to 1 ton pal

[junior wagon]

The fact they can run you down is interesting choice of design

[junior wagon]

30% bigger than their estimate but speed is the topic not weight

Making em lighter is dumb idea

[knotty stratus]

cerato speed is fine it can chase down dibbles , stegos , pachys and tenos if you play it right theres no need for it to be 45km/h

[junior wagon]

Uhuh and big herbivores like maia and teno run you down, thats ok?

Teno chases u down man

They get 3 free hits from tail smack too

[knotty stratus]

theres only 0.1km/h difference bruh

[junior wagon]

That's literally enough to chase you down

[knotty stratus]

like if you start running 2 seconds earlier its not catching you

[junior wagon]

They have better stamina, and they will catch u

[junior wagon]

Thats fake news

[keen plover]

The base run time difference isn't that big tbh.

Most teno's have tactile so they pretty much have infinite stam though

[knotty stratus]

Yeah as it should beacuse teno attacks cost stamina none of your attacks cost anything

[junior wagon]

It's enough to close distance pretty fast, some run photo and it's even worse then. When Trex, Allo comes out, they will need to rework Cerato otherwise no one will play them at least not in regular packs.

[knotty stratus]

its not hard to make them vomit or dodge couple attacks sounds like skill issue to me

[junior wagon]

1v1 sure

In general, you will die with 2 tenos unless they are bad. Im not asking for big speed increase anyway. It's within a realistic and balanced realm, carno is still faster if you put cerato 45

[keen plover]

Yeah but if you made cera faster, then teno would die to 2 ceras

One of them will be running down the other in pairs

[junior wagon]

Tenos can make packs 10? They can corner themselves to fight against multiple

Cera limited to 4

[keen plover]

Group limits don't matter lol.

Cerato is also more common rn

Even with teno being faster, there's like 10x the cera population

[junior wagon]

I've seen opposite lol, ceras have been lackluster but ok

Literally people playing herbivores more cause they are meta

[knotty stratus]

putting cera at 45kmh will make it faster than raptor and closer to dilo with speed mutations ur balance suggesting breaking the whole roaster balance tbh

[junior wagon]

I'm just saying in my experience it's quite the opposite and i've seen big mix packs of herbivores, maias, tenos, more than ceras.

[keen plover]

Pachy would also be non existent lol

[junior wagon]

I wish I could go back to the 10-12 ceras chilling by SW but it's been literally the opposite with fast big herbivores that run you down in megapacks lol

[knotty stratus]

what pachy

[junior wagon]

Pachy is already getting rundown atm without big pack

[knotty stratus]

So you are saying something faster than teno is getting rundown but teno is being slower than pachy you cant rundown ? lol

btw pachy has more stamina than teno

[junior wagon]

no i mean they get smoked

[knotty stratus]

what do you think gonna happen if you put cerato at 45kmh when pachy is already getting smoked while cera is slow

[junior wagon]

pachys also break leg almost instantly sometimes

so they got a good self-defense mechanic

[junior wagon]

they aren't meant to face off a cera but that's besides the point

They can easily make carnivores have short bursts of fast speed which is quite balanced

[keen plover]

I disagree with this. Cerato is definitely the most popular animal in the game. I play on both NA and AU servers (even unofficials) and there's always big packs of them everywhere.

Not saying the herbivores aren't strong. But it's not just a herbi meta rn

I think at most teno needs slight stam cost increase and for tactile to be removed

[junior wagon]

It literally is herbi meta, especially if you play a big pack of maias and box everyone down lol

[keen plover]

Yeah but cerato can hang with diablo and teno. I hunt them all the time

[junior wagon]

1v1 maybe, a good dibbie player should not die to a cerato but ok

Only if they are new I agree

Experienced Teno player will win against u, if we are to say you and teno both have same skill.

[keen plover]

A good cerato is aware of nearby water and bodies. I abuse that fact all the time

[knotty stratus]

https://tenor.com/view/war-dogs-war-dogs-movie-stressed-facepalm-gif-5727928

[keen plover]

I haven't struggled against a teno in a long time 1 v 1. At least in the officials

[knotty stratus]

maybe teno is bigger and stronger

[junior wagon]

ok shouldnt be faster too

Either make it slightly slower, or make cerato faster idc which u choose lol

[keen plover]

Regardless, I'd be fine with cera being faster if they nuked the charge bite damage and bacteria scaling

[junior wagon]

vomit should build

and have timer

[keen plover]

Also where did you get the cerato speed estimate. 30mph is top end of what carno is iirc

[junior wagon]

30 is top estimate

[knotty stratus]

You have to be aware of your surroundings and not get too close to teno othwerwise of course you will get chased to death

I have never ever struggled to kill teno as cerato never

[junior wagon]

lame design choice, they couldve easily made carnis faster then herbis with some relation to irl and kept it balanced with shorter bursts of speed

[junior wagon]

ok try outnumbers 2 or more lol

If they are bad, we don't count those

[knotty stratus]

They already are faster than herbivores expect maia which is known to be fast animal

[knotty stratus]

[junior wagon]

teno is faster so two exceptions

and why do dibbies knock u down from a tail hit that is dumb

[knotty stratus]

Desync

[dusky surge]

aint no WAY we got cera running as fast as a dryo as a suggestion

[mint star]

ceratosaurus needs to be THE dominant predator in the entire game

[steep gazelle]

cera running a dilo speed and insta acceleration with photo/noc with this suggestion xd

[mint star]

utterly obscene

[keen plover]

wdym? Cerato needs to hunt everything and run from everything. Or else it will die!!

[dusky surge]

i also read the conversation and the herbi meta comment was quite funny

yes ceratos are just completely overshadowed by all those damn herbivores running around

how will the entire dozen cerato megapack down at SP survive the presence of 3 maias

[worthy steeple]

it’s 0.1km/h speed difference, it’s literally 0.2%

[elfin night]

@stable forge have you tried not trying to walk into the bush in order to sneak up on someone and instead be more strategic and go around them?

@junior wagon #balance-feedback message so many things wrong with that post

1. We do not care about “realism” and it should never be a part of game balancing, it is fundamentally defunct to do that and the devs know well enough as they put whatever numbers they see fit. Photo tissue cera running like an Omni . “But it’s realistic bro!”

2. Tenontosaurus is just 0.1 kph faster than cera 💀 💀, that’s NOT EVEN 3 CENTIMETERS PER SECOND FASTER. You’re practically the same speed and being marginally slower doesn’t mean at all that you are going to get run down with no complications.

3. Even if you seem to have no escape, water water and more water. They can’t do anything there.

4. Teno has its main weapons on the rear, meaning that it has a harder time being aggressive and you could still fight one off if you are skilled enough since they’re positioning their head to you, whereas your weapon that can potentially 4 shot tenos is on your front and wastes no stam at all that you might waste in the middle of a pursuit

[shrewd jungle]

i wonder why all the big dinosaurs aren't made targets for the corpse bully.. hm..........

[worthy steeple]

i’ll be honest i’m probably one of the few who didn’t really understand the purpose of change, it makes same loud sound even if you’re slowly sneaking, even if you’re small.

not to mention that giant bushes are made for ambushes, making it loud to enter them doesn’t really make sense to me?

i guess maybe they want dinos ambush from behind the bush and entering it will alert the prey so it has a chance to react?

[elfin night]

Because the loud sound of pteros flocking away when you slowly walk into the bushes or simply idke there is a bug according to Don

And then you are not really supposed to enter them at all. Like yeah, nothing is stopping you from getting inside a bush or walking through them, but it is meant to make ambushes more skillful since now you have to find your way around them and be thoughtful rather than just crouching through your cover to get close.

Serves a purpose to make things like adult rex and allo more skillful too

[worthy steeple]

oh so that’s a bug, alright then it makes more sense to me now, but i’d say slow walking herbivore entering the bush shouldn’t make sound, same as crouching carnivore, because otherwise hiding in bushes won’t make any sense when you constantly make noise even while moving slowly

[elfin night]

Simple

Don’t hide inside the bushes unless you absolutely need to

You’re not supposed to be doing that all the time

Just like you barely see large animals just hiding inside bushes irl if at all

[worthy steeple]

i never said anything about large ones, but something small making tons of sound doesn’t make sense

[elfin night]

Guh

[worthy steeple]

especially when we got slow juvies like trike and dibble, they should be able to hide without making noise imo

since it’s like the only way they can escape predators

[dusky surge]

imma be real the bushes def need tuning

because every single thing makes the exact same level of rustling at the exact same volume

be it a troodon or a deino

[elfin night]

Correct

I agree with that

But I like the idea!!! And nickboay is wrong

[dusky surge]

well the devs have said the attunation and whatnot isn't done

very much doubt its staying this way forever

[elfin night]

https://youtu.be/VwB9o3wRnv4?si=JGFso_HCQbhYMtef

Scrub town

And the commenters are drones too 😭

[stable forge]

Lol, its not about me its.about the fact that i can hear baby omnis move 100m away from me in a forest and they cant do nothing about it

[elfin night]

Their fault, even though it does need tuning to make the rustling different

But if they keep running through the bushes, that is entirely on them

[stable forge]

What are you even talking about. Usimg foliage as cover has been in this game since i can remember and suddenly saying that its unusual to do is crazy to me

[slim dragon]

When there's a change people need to adapt to it

[elfin night]

^^^

[stable forge]

The sound is way to loud and this game clearly has a preference for herbivores- hence the midtiers hunting apex herbis for the past 4 years. And now they took awqy element of suprise

[elfin night]

They changed something we have been doing for a while and now it’s time to learn. Same happened with the stamina system

[slim dragon]

The fact running through vegetation finally makes noise and isn't instant invisibility anymore makes things so much more interesting

[elfin night]

Just don’t crouch through the bushes and you will be good

[slim dragon]

Jungle combat and hunting may finally become possible

[stable forge]

Skill issue lmao you have litteral blue bright footprints youre just bad at tracking

[slim dragon]

Bushes making noise affects everyone, not just carnivores

[stable forge]

Yeah its horrible a tiny omni should barely make stick breaking noises not be heard 100m away by a teno haha

[slim dragon]

You assume I'm the one trying to track others down here

[slim dragon]

Yes it needs adjustments. But the fact it exists is a good change

[elfin night]

Precisely

[stable forge]

It dosent affect herbis at all, they always had the means to defend themselves and now the element of suprise is gone

[dusky surge]

People complaining that jungle hunting is impossible only to complain that you can now actually keep track of things in jungles rather than them magically vanishing is bizarre

Yes, the sound is too loud, it's also not done

[dusky surge]

It actively does though. Pursuit predators massively benefit from the ability to track their targets through forests

[slim dragon]

The element of surprise is not gone
However the ability to instantly vanish into bushes whenever you're being chased by 10 ceras is

[stable forge]

How were you losing tenos or dibbles in the forest

And we have this mechanic called footprints

Sp now its gonna be uselesa

[dusky surge]

I wasn't, but I've lost tons of predators by doing exactly that

Also the footprints sometimes just... cease to be

Like you're following the tracks and then there's no more tracks ever

[elfin night]

Didnt know carnivores didn’t have means to defend themselves/dont need them

Or that a pachy can defend itself to the same extent as a dibble

[stable forge]

Thats because you passed them, they are close to where u saw it last...

[stable forge]

Brother the largest carnivore is way smaller than half of herbivores

[dusky surge]

what, the 8 ton gator?

the biggest thing in the game for years until trike?

[stable forge]

The deino that begs things to come to it ? The deino that gets 1shot by stego ?

[dusky surge]

it... it doesn't get 1shot lol

[elfin night]

And the largest land carnivore is laughably overtuned and if playing properly can solo most dibble and maia players

[stable forge]

I cant remember the last time i got captired by deino

[dusky surge]

^ true

ceratosaurus being "small" doesn't matter when it's still insanely powerful for its size

[stable forge]

Good Cera gets bodies by a good teno

[stable forge]

Stop nitpicking, if you think this game is balanced we can stop discussing rn

[dusky surge]

how is that nitpicking it factually doesn't get oneshot

the only one who can one-shot in that matchup is funnily enough, deino

grab, drown, done

[stable forge]

Did you ever catch a stego as deino ?

[elfin night]

Only if it really wants to anyway, or if it isn’t strategic!!!

[stable forge]

That wasnt trying to get killed by swiming

[elfin night]

Ever heard of asymmetric balance?

[dusky surge]

yes

[elfin night]

Sure, there are outliers

[stable forge]

Sure asymetrical games are my.favourite.

[elfin night]

But for the most part the game is rather fair for everyone and you don’t die unless you do something wrong. As Oogway said widely and be would be a cracked isle player for it, there are no accidents

[stable forge]

Ok sure mightaswell remove the feedback channel and attack anyone who has any critisizm. This discord always had trouble seeing things for what they are.

[dusky surge]

what?

having different PoVs doesn't mean anyone is against feedback lmao

[elfin night]

You’re free to post it without crashing out when met with disagreement

Also, THE BEARER OF TRUTH

The everlasting cosmic reality lieth on your hands!

You are right, everyone else is wrong

[stable forge]

This game is a buggy mess, and the last time it was balanced was pre "utah" nerf at isla spiro

[elfin night]

I am assuming you will not care to elaborate why and disagreeing=blind glazer, but I could be wrong

[stable forge]

Since then we have only buffed already stromg playables and nerfed harder to play more pay off playables

[dusky surge]

the bushes making sounds is good, not only for making forests less of a "don't go in there because the chances of a good hunt are low and instant death high" but also just better immersion and horror

they're just too loud for small things. Tune them up to make them weight dependent and everything's chill

[elfin night]

And I hope to be in fact

We agree that bushes need tuning, but the idea on paper is good

[stable forge]

I already did like 5 times sorry english is not my native language and i get most of my info from plying pvp alot

[elfin night]

And it is far more compelling than giving people total invisibility for clipping though dense vegetation with no collision at all

[elfin night]

You did not really explain why the game is not balanced right now without accounting for a small handful of outliers

But that is sidetracking I believe, as this was a bush conversation

[stable forge]

They buffed :
●Stegos, bc they werent strong and big enoug i guess
● tenos, bc they werent strong enough being able to defend against 2 pre nerf carnos
They nerfed :
●Troodon, lol, lmao even
● omni, wouldnt even be bad but desync netcode makes is 4x times as hard
● croc, by making tons of savewaterspots
● pteranodon, truly gamechanging apex that had to get nerfed

The asymetrical balance you speak of would allow some of these to be a fair matchup but its more lile herbi good carni bad rn

They also nerfed galli

And carno

[dusky surge]

in the HT they buffed

• troodon
• ptera
• deino
• raptor
• carno
• dilo

the only thing they didn't buff were cera and herrera, who were already perfectly fine

[stable forge]

Troodon buffed by givng it 13 km/h , k

[cosmic pelican]

Cera got a bleed res buff

Its like 90% immune to bleed now lol

[stable forge]

Lemao

Yeah game is asYMEtRYcAly balanced

Also yes im lookimg forward to ht changes except bush noise

[dusky surge]

It also has infinitely better stam and a FAR better diet

If you can find one single AI, you can grow past that entire slow movespeed, it really doesn't matter. I played Troodon on the HT and it was infinitely easier to grow than live, despite the speed nerf, because all it takes is a crab

[elfin night]

I guess that in this idealized world, riddled with confirmation bias, there was never a HT because on release, the only herbivore who has ever been op was maia and everyone else was a carnivore. Also cera does not exist, nor does pachy in its miserable state, or U6 deinos, or apex carno dominating in spiro…

Also troodon got more of an adjustment than a nerf because it can survive just fine and the full adult can now do twice as much damage as it used to do

[cosmic pelican]

Actually more than 2x

[elfin night]

God forbid ceratosaurus, the corpse bully, having a trait that is good vs other carnivores and GUESS WHO

TENONTOSAURUS

[cosmic pelican]

A tap pounce costs 7% stam on live, its 2.5% on the HT

So like almost 3x

[elfin night]

Yeah but carnis bad amirite

Ptera getting redesigned and deino too

And also carno buffs

[stable forge]

But teno is much stronger...

[dusky surge]

also didn't maia get turbonerfed into obscurity only a few days after it was released

[cosmic pelican]

Juvi troodon, if you dont spawn next to a beach, is indeed miserable

So get south plains spawn or die basically

Unless you manage to find a random body or dead ai

[dusky surge]

hasn't dibble gotten MANY nerfs to damage, mobility and so on?

[elfin night]

Not a single stego or dibble buff

Also maia for “nerfed” like troodon but I guess you cut that out from your argument either willingly or subconsciously because it doesn’t fit the narrative of carnivores being the victims

[stable forge]

Stego and divvle.buff, what are you honestly talking about

[elfin night]

East plains is also good because you can run up to north lake to get a frog or taco

[dusky surge]

Stego got a powerswing, something it needs to survive rex (because god knows it doesn't do ANYTHING to trike)

[elfin night]

Northern jungle is the stinker

[stable forge]

It got ppwerswing 2yeara before rex

Rex is not even out

And steg poweswing has faster.cd that carno bite

[elfin night]

Same could be said when you just cherry picked the best examples to support your stance and I thought we were talking still about HT 😭

This HT dibble only got anything very recently alongside trike and then steg only got a hard counter and another rex coming soon

[elfin night]

And it wastes 10% stamina with each

[dusky surge]

^

it absolutely NUKES your stamina, to a disgusting degree

[elfin night]

Also alt attack only stego would have been miserable against ceras lmao

[stable forge]

Its a 1 shot for anything 10 % stam os free

If you spamm it in panic sure bad for stam, bit if you just chill for right moment youre inkillable

[dusky surge]

deino's can oneshot bigger things and it costs less

[elfin night]

Also, bear in mind we never agreed that having stego at this point (or since U2) was a good thing

[stable forge]

Yeah its an absolute joke

[elfin night]

But to use stego (the only real outlier) to disprove the idea of the game being balanced and giving everyone a fair chance at least in theory is pretty bad

[cosmic pelican]

From my experience you just start starving before you get to the beach from south plains spawn, so Im sure as heck youre not making it to north lake from east, and even if you do, youll already be halfway in the grave. Troover

[elfin night]

I did

!!!!!

[cosmic pelican]

Troodon should have more beach spawns

[elfin night]

Although still it needs some fixing with spawns maybe

[cosmic pelican]

West rail and west access my beloved

[stable forge]

I agree and thats not my point. But as it stands right now, there is no balance. Herbivores in groups can fend of almost anything wheres lots of carnis need a group to finish 1 thing

And that is fine when we have apex carnivores

[elfin night]

I am sorry but if you cannot solo a teno or maia as a cera and both of more or less equal skill you’re bad

[dusky surge]

aren't there plenty of youtube videos of literal montages of people killing x herbivore as y carnivore

like not just one-offs, literal montages

[elfin night]

Even though the size disparity between both factions is huge

[slim dragon]

In order to say wether carnis are defavored compared to herbivores, we should check the populations of each

[stable forge]

Lets hop into norden latertoday ava and ill show u

[elfin night]

And cera megapacks are far more frequent than megaherds

[stable forge]

How easy teno is

[elfin night]

Sure

But later later on today cuz I got college brudha

[stable forge]

Same am at work rn

[slim dragon]

You know what's herbivore-biased ? Petits Pieds unofficial server
You know which still has a higher carnivore pop than herbivores ? Petits Pieds

[elfin night]

Although isn’t norden laggy as hell?

[stable forge]

Idk maybe if u know a better server for pvp

[elfin night]

I do

The Hangout

x40 growth. We get no combat muts, we move all the way to somewhere far from a hotspot like west access and we can duke it out

Also

HT dilo and cera still somehow managing to take on sub trikes

#balance-feedback message thoughts on this?

I love getting realism arguments into balance feedback

Maybe I should suggest that trike and dibble can knock you over while you’re standing up since that is absolutely realistic and credible, why would it let you stand up and try to fight back or escape?

[slim dragon]

Imagine complaining that the slowest carnivore in the game is slower than the fastest herbivore (in their size class)

[void wind]

That doesnt change the fact that the game in itself and the current roster is herbivore favoured.

I used to play a lot of teno, but playing teno, or any herbi bigger than pachy on petits, is the most mindnumbing thing, which is why i switched to carnivore.

PPs statistics for carnivores also include Herrera, PT and Deino, stuff thats somewhat special and ppl play just for their niche.

Running around on a herbi you will barely actually see any of fg carnivores.

[slim dragon]

I see more FG ceras than I see anything else in this game tbh

[dusky surge]

there's also plenty of herreras and deinos just kind of around

you dont see them much but they're there

[void wind]

Thats exactly what i mean. They are played for their niche.

But it has nothing to do with the game being herbivore or carnivore favoured.

Im just saying it, bc ppl always pull up PPs statistics, but in the end they are meaningless

[dusky surge]

they're really not though

because they're objectively some of our best evidence to these claims

and it still shows hefty carnivore bias amongst players

[void wind]

Because carnivore gameplay is more exciting, especially on a server where herbi v herbi is punished and herbivores are allowed to cuddle pack.
It made a large majority of carnivore players leave and other herbivore mains convert to carni mains.

Herbivore simply lack the variety in gameplay that carnivores do.
They can't climb, fly or dive, so those ppl that wanna do that naturally increase the carnivore numbers.

Yet, just by strength and ease of survival, the game is absolutely herbivore favoured.

[slim dragon]

The game is doing what it needs to do to try to achieve balanced populations

Otherwise you'd never see a herbivore

[dusky surge]

^

If that's what it takes to ensure an actual ecosystem rather than carni killpool, that's what it takes

also herbivores will be getting climbing and burrowing soon, so ideally they'll be seeing some more unique players rather than just having basically no real environmental mechanics

[void wind]

Yet, the point was whether the game is carnivore and herbivore favoured, and the numbers say nothing about that.

[dusky surge]

and there never will be any numbers, because at this point, it's entirely subjective

[slim dragon]

tbh it's hard to say the game is herbivore favored when carnivores have all the interesting mechanics rn

[dusky surge]

i would still argue, despite everything, the game is heavily carnivore biased

carnivores are more mechanically deep and rich, and all are playable in a way that allows for viable and engaging survival

meanwhile, pachy is garbage, dryo and hypsi miss core mechanics, and most other herbivores lack true depth and complexity

carnivores have: venom, climbing, flying, diving, superior NV, grapples, pins, stuns

herbivores have: fractures, sparring, stance switching that's mostly it for their most unique mechanics. And hypsi spit.

like... i think the fact that herbivores feel stronger is because they don't really hae many gimmicks, they kinda just hit hard

there's def some unique herbis that break the mold, like maia having stance-switching

you take away the power some herbis have and who's gonna play them over some actually unique animals?

[elfin night]

I hate those servers

Where herbi vs herbi is illegal

[elfin night]

To be fair a lot of carnis are painfully mid design wise

[void wind]

Its not outright illegal, you just get penalized for it so it doesnt get out of hand.

If you do it too much you will first become an outcast and if you keep doing it you will get banned.

[elfin night]

There are servers where it is straight up forbidden and that’s mega cringe

Or forcing herbivores and omnivores to three call or be attacked in order to take the offensive lmao

Community just hates plant eaters

[slim dragon]

political

[elfin night]

Truly

God forbid herbivores are any competent and are anything but walking steaks

[iron tree]

@junior wagon I can't tell of this is a troll post but 💀

Teno is .1kph faster than cera

Unplayable.

And 45 kph is faster than pachy and almost as fast as omni 💀

It could catch up to dilos with speed mutations

💀

This has to a troll

[dusky surge]

i think my fave part is his solution of making cera as fast as dryo, troodon and herrera

because those three really need to be chased down by cerato too on top of omni, carno and dilo

and poor pachy lmao

imagine having an animal that's weaker, slower and smaller than cerato and wondering why no one plays it

[elfin night]

And the logic behind it, my favorite

[iron tree]

Ceratosaurus the predator

[elfin night]

“Realistic estimates”

[iron tree]

😭

[keen plover]

Tbf those realistic estimates were wrong

[iron tree]

We don't know how fast cera was

[keen plover]

There's like one good paper/book iirc on theropod speeds?

[elfin night]

Most likely

But like, who cares

Realism arguments in game balancing are so bad especially when it’s all about creatures from different ages and places

[dusky surge]

and are also genetically produced from a giant machine

[iron tree]

If we'd make Carno realistic and accurate cera would be extinct

Accuracy sucks in a survival game like the isle

[dusky surge]

make things realistic and you kill fun

people only want realism when it suits them

if we had realistic stego or realistic trike which one-tap basically everyone

yea riot time

[elfin night]

Megalania would go extinct

Also magy lol

[elfin night]

Deinosuchus hunting rex and trike ✅

Stego killing a rex or giga ❌ ❌ ❌

Someone who is unblocked pls tell fsh that downvotes matter nothing

[iron tree]

I rage baited them in another server

Blocked.

I can't even upvote good suggestion anymore

[elfin night]

Lmao

[iron tree]

I said maia was perfectly balanced in its HT

I got blocked a few seconds later

[elfin night]

I think I got banned by this dude when I said that omni could absolutely evade a dilo with the jump, superior stamina, far superior agility and only being 20 centimeters per second slower

But according to him, Omni stood no chance because it could get ran down and destroyed by dilo

[iron tree]

Omni 1-2 shots dilo

Yet it still got a buff on the HT

Unplayable

[elfin night]

The worst playable ever

So weak it cannot even kill a hypsi

[steep gazelle]

#balance-feedback message @arctic sigil The galli video was just an example, but I agree that the galli needs to weigh more than the omni at least to avoid being pinned.

The problem with the omni's pounce occurring on anything smaller than it, and when the allo arrives this will be a huge problem.

[arctic sigil]

i understand if juvies cant escape but adults should have a chance if the weight is close to the raptor pouncing

[elfin night]

Delete omni

Problem solved

[void wind]

Funny thing is, with how Omnis pounce works on galli rn it would probably still be pinnable up to about 490kg

Pinning sucks but to be honest, if a galli gets pinned its on the galli, they got all the means to get away from Omnis

[slim dragon]

Galli used to be 510kg and pinnable

[void wind]

Yeah, for some reason on galli and other omnis and troodons maybe aswell, the pinning threshhold is lower

[void wind]

When, on the stress test? Well damn

[junior wagon]

they already do, the current meta is literally herbivores hunting down carnivores and yall defend it cause it's 'balanced' it's quite funny to me.

[junior wagon]

those can be sped up too, doesn't disregard the issue with herbivores acting like aggressive carnivores because of lack of risk for them.

One can run a 10 pack of Maias and go around boxing every cerato out. Teno same scenario, yall don't think that 2-3% difference is much but it's enough to get you killed especially since they have the same bite force as cerato.

My topic is relating to balancing between a teno which was much slower in real life, but if we are to not care about irl sure. But why is a heavier herbivore also faster? I can understand the Maia as it was known to be fast, but teno doesn't fit that boat.

It's faster, does more damage and stuns you. 1 is manageable but as soon as it turns into two or more they can practically kill you with one knockdown if they are coordinated.

I completely understand allowing herbivores to have adequate defenses, but this case we have two live Hippos in dinosaur age that run your ass down and almost all of them are aggressive hence I call these players hippos.

Maia should be the only hippo tbh XD

[dusky surge]

powercreep incarnate, frankly. speed up everything just for cera

hell, why not speed up teno too, since we're buffing the speed of everything else

also did you say teno has the same biteforce as cerato

[junior wagon]

No cera could be sped up to slightly faster than teno to avoid what you are describing.

[hasty coyote]

because most herbivores that go "hunting" are either much slower or in such large numbers it wouldnt matter. Like a cera getting boxed to death by 10 maias is the exact same thing as a pachy getting mauled by 10 carnos.

[dusky surge]

then what does teno do? it can't outrun a group of ceratos, it can't outswim a group of ceratos, and it can't outfight a group of ceratos

[junior wagon]

The maias is fine, but you've got teno tail slappers too lol.

[junior wagon]

IT can easily holds its weight against one, maybe two but might be pushign it.

[dusky surge]

also there's a very simple way to escape maia as cerato

get in a forest. it has godawful agility and accel in biped

also next patch it swims like a rock so you can use that too

[junior wagon]

Maia is fine, its a moving bus its ok.

[dusky surge]

so why isnt teno

[junior wagon]

I don't agree with Teno being faster tho.

Because they are actually more dangerous cause of the tail knockdown in packs

[slim dragon]

Teno more dangerous than cera
lol

[junior wagon]

They get 3 free hits = death with 2 or more.

[dusky surge]

why? it needs to not be obliterated the moment a cera pack sees them. cera has the advantage of teno being a primarily back-facing creature, so it can just run and duke and teno can only nibble it

ceratos, however, have front facing attacks with high damage, bleed and bacteria. therefor making them faster would be FAR more unfair

[junior wagon]

Yes in a situation where there is 2 against one, even a good teno player can cause trouble

[dusky surge]

all of teno's best attacks require it to be immobile and/or facing away from you

[elfin night]

well dude, so far it has been only because herbivores have gotten two land apexes before carnivores and only one of them has been around for a while. Do you expect a cera to survive a charging trike or a stego tail swing?

[slim dragon]

What about 2 ceras against one teno if the ceras are faster

[junior wagon]

Ya which makes it extremely defensive

One tail slap means the cera is backing off.

[dusky surge]

the tails slap does very little damage

[elfin night]

omg 100 damage I should retreat rq

[dusky surge]

less damage than a regular cera bite, actually lol

in fact, not a single one of teno's attacks does more than a charged bite

[junior wagon]

uhuh doesn't matter what your charge bite is when your are knocked down infinitely lol

[elfin night]

only happened to live branch carno

[dusky surge]

you can't infinitely knock down a cera

[elfin night]

and if a cera is stun locked that's entirely their fault

[dusky surge]

and if you can that's because the cera isn't touching their keyboard

[junior wagon]

they get 3 hits in the time you are knocked down it's enough to cause enough damage they can easily hit ur head.

[dusky surge]

yea so dont end up behind a teno???

[junior wagon]

they have intense bleed for some reason too.

[dusky surge]

so does cera

and teno, unlike cera, doesn't have bleed resist

[junior wagon]

they can turn their asses pretty fast, ive seen it 1st hand man

[dusky surge]

if you're in that situation while trying to run from a teno, that means you were running into a teno, which is not what you should be doing

they can't turn fast enough to catch a cera runnng away from it lol

[junior wagon]

you have to run when there is like 6 dude

[elfin night]

if a teno tries to play offensive it is risking a charged bite to the head. So I am assuming this balance feedback is gamer rage after getting tossed around by a teno or a gargantuan skill issue when trying to kill one. It LITERALLY is built to counter things chasing or getting on its read, not for high speed pursuits while hunting and running down a target just as fast as you are

[junior wagon]

even 2 can mean death for one cerato but ok

[dusky surge]

and 2 ceras can mean death for 1 tenonto

[junior wagon]

you are forgetting they can easily turn but ok

[dusky surge]

you know who else can turn better? cerato

one of the best turns in the game

[elfin night]

you are forgetting cera can also easily turn and by turning they also reduce their speed so there's no way you are getting ran down and killed by a teno if you don't want to

[junior wagon]

uhuh im talking bout teno tail slap not cerato

[dusky surge]

tail slap locks you in place and has a massive cooldown on all your abilites

[junior wagon]

they can keep up with ur turn rate

[dusky surge]

it is one of the worst abilities to use while chasing a cera

[junior wagon]

it's not much of a challenge for them

[dusky surge]

i mean, it wouldn't be if you're walking into them

[junior wagon]

they walk to u

[dusky surge]

yea, and if you walk away, they can't do much

[elfin night]

so you can bite them before they turn, break their ankles to bite or guess what

Keeping your distance

[junior wagon]

they bite you in the ass, if you stop to charge bite you get tail slapped

[elfin night]

are you EU?

[junior wagon]

biggest scare is cerato player playing a teno

[elfin night]

maybe we could try 1v1 cera vs teno and I could show you how hard and scary a teno is when it starts chasing you /s

[junior wagon]

no, I've heard EU players are less braindead tho

[dusky surge]

that does like no damage

they're successfully ragebaiting you

[hasty coyote]

Heres some reasons why the speeds are like this:
1: teno is inherently very defensive since the majority of its attacks are rear oriented or require you to be stationary. The only attack it can use offensively is its bite, which only deals 35 damage. Compare that to cera whose attack deals 150 damage, and you can see why teno being offensive is not nearly as bad as cera being offensive.

2: the fight is 50/50 and generally skill based. Both have ways to escape each other. Cera can lose the teno through bushes as teno isnt a carnivore and can only track blood, which cera would not be bleeding unless it tanked a defensive attack and bleed is incredibly unreliable to track. Cera can also cause teno to vomit and have less stam and bleed heavily if it chases. Cera can also use water since it swims faster and has much stronger attacks in water. Meanwhile, teno has speed and the ability to jump, potentially it could lose a cera using bushes but cera has tracking. It also cant use bleed as a deterrent because cera has bleed res.

3: the speed difference is negligible. For context, teno has about 2.5 minutes of sprint time. With that 0.1kph difference, teno gains about 4.167 meters. Thats basically a single cera length. So unless the teno starts the fight on top of you, it aint catching up to you. And if it does start on top of you, pay more attention. You got ambushed, you could do the same to it, something worse could do the same to you.

[elfin night]

OOOOHHHH NOOOOO

0.1 kph faster I am so doomed

[dusky surge]

if you see the teno first and you just W + Shift into a forest while it's a slight distance ahead you can effectively lose it

[elfin night]

or you can fight it too lol

[junior wagon]

you gonna fight 6 tenos ?

[dusky surge]

also corpse buffs allow you to get stun resists and damage resists to allow you to take an easy advantage of your fight

ALSO water means you have the stronger attacks, speed and agility while swimming

ALSO ALSO making it vomit means it effectively WILL run out of stam first

so you have 3 options

[junior wagon]

they can nibble ur ass to death

it dont do much, but does it need to?

[hasty coyote]

no, thats why you run to the forest. Are you gonna fight 6 ceras as a diablo?

[mint star]

I’m pretty sure you can grow a herrerasaurus to 100% in the time it takes for a tenonto to kill a ceratosaurus via tail biting

just ignore the bites lmao

[elfin night]

Wave was only talking about one. And trying to account for grouping is a flawed argumentative tactic because grouping is inherently unbalanced

Like what is a pachy supposed to do agaunst 6 dilos?

[dusky surge]

you gonna fight 6 dibbles as a stego?

no. there's a point where you HAVE to turn around

[floral mauve]

nerf dilo clone timer to being one minute for 3 uses, vs resetting every 8 seconds. also fix clones dmg being guaranteed and give counterplay

[junior wagon]

1v1 they would do such a thing for sure

[elfin night]

<@&933486433342222376>

[dusky surge]

if they're doing that in a 1v1 lol good that gives you an advantagew

FREE STEAM MONEY FOR ME???

YES

Unyielding generosity

[elfin night]

lol

[stable forge]

whats the stam to damage mutation called again

[dusky surge]

Anyway point is cerato has like 3 other advantages teno doesn't

[elfin night]

tactile endurance

[dusky surge]

Tactical Endurance

[stable forge]

you wanna test cera v teno ?

[elfin night]

sure

[dusky surge]

tact endurance is a huge copout but so is like, every combat mut so meh

[stable forge]

sent u dm

[elfin night]

lemme download evrima public branch againa nd I will be there

[hasty coyote]

yeah tactile is broken, but then we could also point at cera having congenital and gastro

[dusky surge]

to the update with worse balance 😔

[dusky surge]

yea that was what i was getting at

[junior wagon]

gastro is clutch but you can easily stop cera from gastro

[dusky surge]

not really lol

in fact cera has like 3 mechanics to actually enable it to gastro WAY better than everything else

[junior wagon]

yes, unless they go out and eat an AI

[dusky surge]

it has damage reduction while eating, damage resist while near a corpse and unlimited food capacity

[junior wagon]

literally stegos do this in NA they body block to stop ceras from gastro but ok

probably EU too

[hasty coyote]

and cc resistance

[dusky surge]

and CC resistance

[hasty coyote]

yeah, stegos, not tenos

[waxen trench]

stego players never change

[dusky surge]

yea why wouldn't they

that's like, the objectively correct thing to do

it's so funny they added a mutation to make corpse guarding meta

[junior wagon]

Ya they sit on the body, other herbis like dibbies do too.

[dusky surge]

well yea

[elfin night]

which one?

[dusky surge]

the game encourages you to guard corpses now

if you don't, the predator will instantly heal

i can't even blame them, it's not even pettiness, it's just basic survival

[junior wagon]

It's fine considering how fast herbis heal and sustain in fights.

[elfin night]

why would they let any large carnivore eat honestly

I also body camp on omnis and troodons at times

[dusky surge]

kinda have to now lol

[elfin night]

but deinos and ceras the most

anyways, didnt know about the mut. What is it? HT only?

[dusky surge]

it's so lame that they've added mutations to encourage some of the game's least fun playstyles

[dusky surge]

what? gastro?

[elfin night]

no, the one you mentioned

[dusky surge]

which one???

[elfin night]

oh you were referring to gastro? I thought you were talking about yet another

[dusky surge]

no gastro

[elfin night]

kk lol

[dusky surge]

honestly the two most meta mutations are meta because they encourage you to play poorly

[elfin night]

you sir

Have never played pachy or dibble

Dibble regen is ASS

[hasty coyote]

also thats just as confusing, herbies dont heal any faster than carnis on average. Only herbies I know with good heal rates are maia and pachy, both of which still only heal fast OUT of combat.

[elfin night]

and pachy is pachy

The only large herbis with good regen are teno and maia

[dusky surge]

gastro encourages corpse guarding because otherwise instaheal

tactile encourages you to 100% commit to killing something because you will NEVER exhaust a herbivore thanks to it

[dusky surge]

and trike now i think

[elfin night]

yeah trike too has very good heal

but dibble...lmao, can take you like 10 minutes sitting to heal fully if not more

it's so bad

[hasty coyote]

yeah I would normally let carnis have bodies after a fight, but I cant anymore. I had 2 ceras attack my diablo, I killed one and it 2 called and stayed back, so I let him eat his friend while I went off to heal. Then the second cera came back and tried to attack me again now that it had full hp... he still died but he almost got me since I was trying to log for server restart.

[dusky surge]

ikr, isnt that awesome?

you can't be sportsmanlike because that's actually weakness

[elfin night]

lol

[dusky surge]

and your opponent WILL finish their meal and come after you ASAP

[elfin night]

cera being so skillful as usual

also I remember how I WAS WARNED IN A SERVER

because I as a dibble I tried to body camp to prevent a guy form just running to a body as cera and using gastro

and he started COMPLAINING IN GLOBAL THAT I WAS CAMPING BODY

[dusky surge]

remove the mutation if you hate bodycamping that much

[elfin night]

when he attacked me, ran to heal and then went back to attack me

[dusky surge]

genuinely, rule servers should remove that mut if they care that much

[elfin night]

I lost the dibble because of that

great player, great mutation, great servers favoring carnivore players

[dusky surge]

body down in general was invented to save poor rex players which i find very funny

[elfin night]

It's also going to be so fun when "hErBiVoReS aReN't AgGrEsSiVe" in an unofficial as a rule so I cannot claim a migration or patrol for myself as trike and I am forced to graze or go elsewhere even though I could crush the local dibbles who ate everything

I hate unofficial admins so much 😭

So many of these servers just blatantly cater to carnivores on purpose or they are just extremely uneducated about herbivores and genuinely believe herbis 3 calling before attacking or never killing another herbi is realistic

[dusky surge]

i just dont understand why people think a herbivore WOULDN'T kill another herbivore if it was
A: equipped to kill it
B: said other herbivore legitimately threatened its available food

survival is like, the entire priority of every wild animal

[elfin night]

it's gonna be soooooooo fun to exist in one of these servers as a cama and being unable to forcibly claim a patrol

and you are forced to respect the lesser grass eaters as they eat your food and you are forced to stroll elsewhere

[elfin night]

Carnivore mains

they just don't care

[hasty coyote]

gets banned for accidentally trampling a bunch of juvies you couldnt see

[elfin night]

if an omni kills a baby teno when there's 10 AI animals around it's natural and fine

if a trike runs down and stomps a smaller trike that was eating the few plants of a certain nutrient is griefing and toxic

[junior wagon]

i actually agree with no rules but the game design shouldnt let herbis be too aggressive imo

[dusky surge]

that's LITERALLY how the game is designed

most herbis are either
A: Too slow
B: Too defensively geared

to actually be that offensive

the most aggressively geared herbi is pachy and that dude SUCKS

in the unique case of maia it has very specific gaps in its movement capabilities to make it quite avoidable

[elfin night]

My guy

Herbivores aren't a solid block where all playables are built to do the same thing. Just like carnivores, they are all different

Pachy for example is completely useless if it is disallowed from being aggressive and hunting threats down before spotted and this is something semi realism soyjaks can't understand

and as Wave said, most aren't built for that anyway and they cannot catch up to you

[hasty coyote]

meanwhile:

[elfin night]

and why should herbis be forced to be passive, reactive creatures? To reinforce a pointless and boring stereotype of carnivores being the proactive and smart ones who have the most control over engagements?

[dusky surge]

but
stego = slow
dibble = slow
teno = defensively geared
dryo = defensively geared and small
hypsi = lacks any killing power
maia = easily evadable
trike = VERY slow
pachy = actually decently aggressive but also STILL slow compared to most of the roster

like look at that

[hasty coyote]

pachy is criminally slow for its size, its closer in speed to cera than omni lmao

[junior wagon]

pachy got what it sow

[dusky surge]

which is disgusting lmao

[elfin night]

okay I won 2/3 matches

in the cera vs teno thing

cera can just force the teno to chase it and get the upper hand or just be a 50/50 if they are not chasing each other

[glacial apex]

woohoo grew a FG teno only to die to a 0 interaction dilo fight

[viscid mica]

@arctic sigil have you tried walking away from omni? You basically walk as fast as they run you can just leave you don’t need to attack everything that lives and breathes as a galli

@steep gazelle

[worthy steeple]

lovely

i love dying to literally just one bite

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-mmm-cheesy-cheese-cheesy-gif-19257011

[worthy steeple]

you know my bite is venomous too

you will die from death🔥

!!!!!!

[cosmic pelican]

Jokes on you potatoes dont have a nervous system

[worthy steeple]

you heartless creature😭😭😭

[cosmic pelican]

Quite literally

[worthy steeple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1232185340425404427/1342202393680412804/IMG_2755.gif

[cosmic pelican]

LOL

[worthy steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/super-hero-bubbles-ppg-power-puff-girls-mad-gif-17920840

[maiden temple]

All these suggestions to nerf teno because it can 'hunt carnis' are hilarious. Who is getting nibbled to death?

[viscid mica]

Me

They won’t leave me alone

I run forever

But fr teno is balanced skill issue

my skill issue

[maiden temple]

The donkeys are at it again

[viscid mica]

Leave the cera mains alone they’re trying man

[maiden temple]

I know, I know. I truly hope they can overcome their skissues

[viscid mica]

Their all gonna become allo mains or Rex mains in the next few months so unlikely

[maiden temple]

[slim dragon]

I wonder how many rexes will get run down and killed by trikes

[maiden temple]

I suspect they'll be faster than trikes

[slim dragon]

That yes
I'm talking about rex players, not the playable itself

[maiden temple]

I still wonder how stego will fit into an ecosystem with stronger apexes

[maiden temple]

Oh yeah, that will be fun to watch

[elfin night]

@steep gazelle while I don't think that being able to inflcit vomit on a teno with one charged bite, I don't think vomit would be the main thing

but more so the charged bite inflicting all that sickness on top of that 500 damage headshot

[maiden temple]

Yeah charge bite being completely free to use is a war crime

It needs stamina tax, I wouldn't mind it nearly as much if it had a cost

[elfin night]

No

Just slow the cera down as it does the charged bite and then reduce vomit buildup on larger creatures

Done

Make it something defensive rather than ceratorex

[viscid mica]

It’s under 500 but vomit animation lock is the biggest problem of it

[elfin night]

It is on larger creatures

I don’t mind omnis or dilos getting it

But tenos and dibbles? Now that’s different

[maiden temple]

Vomit changes a lot in how you have to play so having it stack slower would be nice. Making it slower while holding charge would make it way easier to fight, maybe a tad too easy even?

[errant lion]

i would not mind the animation lock if the vomit would just happen once
imo after you get vomit sickness the bile should not work anymore

i mean what is the creature even vomitting at that point

[maiden temple]

It is a big advantage even if it only happens once

[elfin night]

not really because 350 unmodified damage is still that

you could maybe also give it some cc resistance while charge biting too

there you go, defensive oriented ability that can hardly be used for offense. Problem solved for cera and now it is a solid yet not oppressive playable

[errant lion]

yea but it would turn it more into deterrence than an active hunting strat of stunning the target repeatedly

[maiden temple]

I like it having a niche of a capable corpse bully as advertised

[maiden temple]

I agree now, this does sound like the best route

[glacial apex]

YES, i hate how its NOT a corpse bully

like why make a corpse bully then give it no negatives outside of being a corpse bully

[elfin night]

maybe make it run at like 20 kph but becomes immune to stuns and knockdowns turn into stuns

[steep gazelle]

In my opinion, the only change in Charge Bite would be to make it so that damage mutations don't affect it, just like it is with the abilities of other carnivores. The main problem is vomiting, which is a debuff that only loses to the pachy's bone break, but which is easily applied.

[elfin night]

I sure would love to keep cera running around with an S tier, free easy to stam burst damage tool punching up like an alberto or sub rex

so fair and balanced

[steep gazelle]

Of course a change like adding a consequence for missing the charged bite and just getting bacteria from bones and rotten food would be nice too

There has to be some change that makes the Cerato more balanced and stays in its scavenger niche instead of the best hunter

[maiden temple]

Which AVA's idea seems to cover well

[hasty coyote]

imo, all of the combat mutations in general need to go anyway. Its jsut that cera can abuse ALL of them to their full extent since it has the perfect stat spread.

[maiden temple]

I hate muts that alter core stats so much, they became a must have

[hasty coyote]

genuinely, thats just gonna end with tenos just tail slamming them to stun them to death.

[steep gazelle]

I agree. I don't know if anyone else thinks this but it seems that some mutations were specifically for Cerato, like the 3 damage mutations, photo/noc and gastro

[maiden temple]

They'll have to change tactics, using charge bite just to avoid being ccd, and kiting + using normal bite instead

Avoiding a slam is already a ton less damage taken

[hasty coyote]

Its not that they were specific for cera, cera just has the perfect stats for them. Speed mutations affect a lot of dinos matchups, cera just ruins the most matchups with them (other ceras, tenos, and pachies). Damage muts affect any bite attack (including dilo clones), its just that cera has only bite attacks (and really good ones at that). cera is also the perfect size to be large enough to tank hits, but still small enough to use congenital. And lastly, eat to heal purely cares about eating and doesnt care if it overeating (which deino can do too, but cera abuses it since its already built to body camp and has built in damage negation while eating). Like none of them (except gastro) are particularly catered towards cera, its just that cera has the pefect stats to abuse all of them, while most dinos can only really utilize 1-2 to their full extent.

[hasty coyote]

1: tenos are slightly faster and have their strongest attacks on the rear, so chasing a teno is not an option.
2: It will now take cera about 11 hits to kill a teno (assuming all body bites) when it used to be only 5. This highly shifts the favor to teno as it still only has to hit 2-4 times, or it just spams tail slam and whittles down the cera.

Tot to mention how this makes matchups against anything smaller much more difficult as well. Cera relies on charged bite's offensive pressure to cover its weak defense. Its "a good defense is a good offense" type of dino. Genuinely that nerf is WAY too hard. Its gonna end up like pachy the moment it got stuns removed. Cera is def an S tier dino and over tuned, but it only needs minor nerfs to limit its vomit and punch up, not something major that incredibly hurts its defensive pressure like that.

[maiden temple]

If you're immune to cc you can get a charged bite in exchange of a tail slam and kite away. I'd need to test around the damage modifiers to calculate the trade offs but it sounds good to me

[hasty coyote]

he didnt say "immune to cc" he said immune to stuns, and stuns to knockdowns. Which means teno tail slam is gonna stun you, then it backs off a bit, waits for stun immunity, then goes again. Its gonna be like how pachies bullied carnos with stuns or diablo v stego atm, except this time the aggressor is just stronger.

[maiden temple]

CC resistance then, however we'd imagine it working

Maybe let the stuns build up and eventually you're no longer immune

[hasty coyote]

it would need some insane cc resistance for teno to not stun it. Tho if you gave it that, it would prob survive teno. It would def struggle more against smalls though.

[maiden temple]

Yeah, I don't mind that trade off with cera specifically, it's meant to be scary when you linger around

[viscid mica]

The main problem is how much that hurts it’s defensive value

@glass harbor bros on unofficial and there are mixpackers?

[steep gazelle]

probabily zooming

[viscid mica]

Those skins are making me nauseous

[glass harbor]

bro, what'd i say

[viscid mica]

On your post the skins that’s unofficial you can’t get skins like that deino on official

[glass harbor]

dawg what? I said dont ping me talking about mixpackers

[viscid mica]

You expected me to read that far? I read like the first two scentences cuz you started rambling about the same thing after that and then watched the video

And yes I’m gonna mention it cuz it had a huge effect on how the battle went

[glass harbor]

let me guess, you didnt watch the whole vid either

the dibble didnt kill me until the end of the vid

and i dont understand why you didnt read it all

you pretty much missed the whole point of the feedback

[viscid mica]

Yes I saw that this the mention your point if animation lock being op ya?

[glass harbor]

yeah, but that was only half of it

[viscid mica]

Aight 1 sec

Cooldown wouldn’t benefit ceras intended niche, animation locking or significantly shorter animation on vomit would help balance it out but still keep it good at defending

[hasty coyote]

Tbh I watched the vid, only the first hit seemed off. The second was an alt that had its animation canceled by a stun after the hitbox started, and the 3rd was just them timing it right after you stayed away for long enough that the vomit immunity wore off, and since carno is so fast, even a 10th of a second delay caused you to move past him then vomit.

[glass harbor]

yes, but im not just talking about ceras vomiting, im talking about vomiting in general. it isnt very realistic to vomit over, and over again, bc what are you vomiting out at that point?

[viscid mica]

The repeat vomiting only really happens cuz of cera, plus your telling me when you vomit you only do so once? And then you’re good? You don’t got any follow up?

[glass harbor]

well, if you vomit out your whole stomach, then yeah, theres no follow up. but if you just vomit a little, then there can be follow up

[viscid mica]

True true

[glass harbor]

when i was young, i had a bad stomach bug, but id only throw up after eating/drinking something.

[viscid mica]

Huh lucky you

[glass harbor]

yeah it sucked, i had to go to the emergency room at 1 am

[hasty coyote]

To be fair, if your whole stomach was vomited out, you would have no hunger left lol.

Though I do agree there’s no reason for repeat vomits.

[glass harbor]

yeah, i realized the second one was a stun canceling the animation

[glass harbor]

maybe a new vomiting system could be added

it changes how much you vomit, and depending on how much you vomit out, the more/less hunger it drains

[wanton edge]

@glass harbor the whole point of vomit is for it to be a deterrent from attacking ceratos, especially at a corpse since that's literally their ammunition. only thing necessary of change is movement speed during charge bite. other than that, dont fight ceratos at corpses or unless you have a teammate since cerato is more combatively capable than carno.

[steep gazelle]

vomit stun and easy aplied is a poblem too

[wanton edge]

that's the point of vomit tho .. lol. it's not as initimidating if you can simply just walk off deciding to fight a cerato.

[steep gazelle]

Cerato already has extremely high damage (350) and can reach 500 with the 3 damage mutations, the vomit should be something that discourages others from fighting it, but currently this makes Cerato even stronger unnecessarily, both in hunting and defending itself. Making Cerato something unhuntable even far from a carcass

The biggest problem is how easy it is to apply even though it is the second biggest debuff in the game.

[wanton edge]

yes, which is why i said the only issue is its speed as its a defensive scavenger. however, it punishing you heavily for carelessly rushing in as something not equipped to fight it isn't a problem. every other playable does completely fine against cerato.

[wanton edge]

it's supposed to be easy to apply because it's how they defend themselves lmao.

[steep gazelle]

I could agree with you, if the vomit didn't have a stun that gives 3 free bites to the cerato, even having all the possible buffs in the game having only speed as a counterpart, literally only 1 bad thing

[wanton edge]

it's usually 1 but that's a separate problem with stun duration. bottom line is, vomit should stay with every single effect it has as that's what makes cerato an effective fighter. if you lose to a cerato at a corpse then that's simply just how things go.

[steep gazelle]

Vomit was perfectly fine before being buffed, it served its purpose and wasn't as overly strong as it is now

I'm not talking about losing to a Cerato in a corpse, but rather away from any corpse. Cerato doesn't need a corpse to be strong and broken

Cerato is the playable that is currently far from fulfilling its niche as it should (scavenger), being the best hunter on the isle

Just like Dilo with his completely meaningless clones, Cerato also needs a change to become more balanced.

The only ones I see who don't accept that Cerato needs a rework are those who play with it, who don't accept that it shouldn't kill everything it wants with a few bites, that it should be immortal. These same players are the ones who complain that Stego is "op" xd

[minor axle]

personally I think vomit shouldn't be instant, but instead should happen sometime after the illeness builds up (but also passively tick up for a little so that less bites might be requires), potentially at a slightly variable rate. It would be soon enough hopefully that a sustained fight still has you vomit during it, but it can't be used as an opener, and if the enemy escapes/is just that strong they only suffer from losing their resources

[void wind]

@random stump that will not stop the pin, omni pin threshhold for Galli is lower

A 380ish omni can pin a fg Galli

[cinder vessel]

Think it would be a good idea to lower the limit of food that spawns in an area. Keep large packs from building(herbivores). Herbis the only ones who really don't have to worry about starving ever. "Built ford tough" also.

[rapid flume]

it is incredibly easy to find ai as a carnivore

[slim dragon]

No amount of reducing the food that spawns in migration zones will make herbis starve until grazing is reworked
It'll just make herbivores more tedious to play

Also not being as worried of starving is kinda the point of being an herbivore

[cinder vessel]

I thought the point was being a bully

[slim dragon]

That's cera

[cinder vessel]

I find more issues with these herds than any ceras. But yes ceras are bullies too

[slim dragon]

The difference is ceras can chase people

[cinder vessel]

Dibbles and gallis chase. Got ran down by a group myself not long ago as a carno. Ran me out of Stam and I was done

[rapid flume]

what are you playing that gets caught by a dibble

[cinder vessel]

Carno

[slim dragon]

Gallis are not herbivores, but they're also small enough that you can fight them as pretty much anything

How the hell do you get chased by dibbles

[dusky surge]

wha

[slim dragon]

What
Carno is faster than both galli and dibble

[dusky surge]

and even if a galli DOES catch up to you, you can nuke it in close range

[cinder vessel]

If you're full on Stam and haven't been in a fight recently yes. Don't know if they can track too. But sure seemed like they tracked me down pretty easy

[rapid flume]

if you're getting chased down by dibbles as carno, it doesn't really matter how many there are

[random stump]

Oh

Ew.

[glass harbor]

vomit stunning is big problem

[cinder vessel]

It's situational. But yea sure the fastest carnivore with probably lowest Stam shouldn't be caught

[worthy steeple]

carnos stam is one of the best

[steep gazelle]

hordtest yes, public branch no

[worthy steeple]

well HT is the newest version, this is what we will get in the main branch soon, so yeah carno has 2 minutes and 40 seconds of stamina which is insane considering its speed

[steep gazelle]

How long does Carno run in the public branch? I've never stopped to test it

[floral mauve]

Please fix carno hitbox

It’s so incredibly broken

https://youtube.com/shorts/mQnYhlp92XY?si=t-u7K33JYE5MkYhi

So many times I get hit and the carno is in a different country entirely

[elfin night]

@frozen kiln manage your stam

[hasty coyote]

2:15, 1:50 with charge

[steep gazelle]

in ht is 1min50s with charge too?

[hasty coyote]

Iirc it’s 2:15 with charge now

[dusky surge]

absolutely nutty

[hasty coyote]

Genuinely insane for carno. I honestly think it’s a bit too strong as now the main counterplay for carno is just gone. You can’t just juke til you gas him out.

[dusky surge]

Part of me kinda likes it because it solidifies an actual small game menace in the open fields

[hasty coyote]

I like it, but at the same time it makes open fields literally uninhabitable for most smalls. So you won’t have anything to hunt as they never venture into carno death land lol

[dusky surge]

Nah, the unyielding PvP lust of most isle players supercedes logic

Also just not being solo massively boosts your chances against a carno

[hasty coyote]

You think smalls can find more than one of their own species? lol, lmao even

[dusky surge]

Also one thing I do like about the new savannah is you do have ways to break up a carno chase

Use the denser foliage to hit 'em with a vanishing act to force him to lose distance or just break line of sight

[hasty coyote]

*new bush sfx

[dusky surge]

@lavish pagoda gastronomic is OP on everyone, it's just REALLY OP on cerato. I'd prefer to see it either completely reworked or removed, rather than nerfed for just cera and deino

[vagrant parcel]

I wouldnt mind the gastro regen/movement speed ones being removed - just not healthy lol

[warm flax]

I feel like a mythical being when I’m playing a Dryo or Hypsi. ppl often stop what they are doing, surround me, and just watch me spamming my 1 call.

[thorn mountain]

#balance-feedback message

helll nahh

2 rexes after 2 hours nah 3-5 hours it could

dont make rex just be able to beat anything after 2 hours thats just dumb its a apex its meant to be hard to grow not be able to fight the 2nd biggest carnivores with ease at 2hrs

[elfin night]

@radiant shadow making what are effectively two still rather small game, fragile carnivores hold their own against small game hunter adults or adult brawler corpse bullies who OUTNUMBER them is nothing short of a bad idea

[thorn mountain]

its just asking for rex to fear nothing

from pretty much a way of making rex just kill everything

[iron tree]

@wide trellis what were you playing as? #balance-feedback message

[elfin night]

1 hour = omnis and dilos are a non issue

2 hour = ceras AND CARNOS are a non issue

3 hour = dibbles are a non issue

Perfectly balanced and fair. Growing an apex would truly be a challenge with that logic

[wide trellis]

In official servers, a lot of crocs-canibal. I saw it in ceras. Im pretty sure there is many players who just come in game and want atack everthing what they see easy

[elfin night]

Dude

[iron tree]

that's because cera and deinos are cannibalistic species

[elfin night]

DUDE

Deinos and ceras are inherently cannibals

[iron tree]

the game wants you to murder your own kind as deino/cera

[elfin night]

They are meant to be by design. Gators have no other threat other than themselves, and then most ceras don’t resort to cannibalism lol

A good tip when you start this game is to not assume that everyone is your friend

[iron tree]

yeah most ceras megapack and murder everything in sight

[elfin night]

Not even other herbivores. Everyone has a reason to kill you

[tropic falcon]

@wide trellis Cannibalism is a thing that happens IRL with wildlife as well. So it’s completely natural.

[wide trellis]

Yes its natural, but im not sure that is happens so often

[tropic falcon]

It happens waaaaay more than you think. If you can’t fight back. You’re food.

[iron tree]

Crocodilians cannibalise quite often

[tropic falcon]

Crocidiles, lions, hyenas, Tasmanian devils, pandas, kangaroos, ants, bees, turtles, wolves, chimps, gorillas, monkeys and soooo much more cannibilize

If you can’t fight, run, hide or scare off you’re gonna be food

[wide trellis]

Ok. So i should use my brain by playing such species like eat anything what i see and provoke players to use cheats to revenge me, and make a stack of different groups of large, dangerous species to terrorise servers. Very interesting gaming, strange balance with reality, im not sure about life was cringy like this. But its okay, so maybe i just shoud stop to play apexes in this game...

[elfin night]

It would happen more often if animals whose species is cannibal didn’t try to fight back or avoid putting themselves in bad situations like many isle players

[elfin night]

Another valid option is to stop using oddly specific and laughably hyperbolic hypothetical situations that feel like a desperate attempt to grasp for anything that could support that stance

[slim dragon]

The answer is much simpler than that
Don't trust anyone. Approach every encounter with caution
ta-da

[elfin night]

There you go

By suddenly assuming that someone with the capacity of killing you will most likely do so, you are preventing your own death

Who would have thought?

[fickle epoch]

@radiant shadow rex would be overpowered

it would be too easy for it to grow

[steep gazelle]

@radiant shadow This should depend on the players' skill, making everything easy for Trex just because he's an Apex doesn't make sense.

[elfin night]

In fact it should be the exact opposite

Harder because you are an apex, even in relative terms once you’re grown

[tropic falcon]

@flat aurora making mixpacking bannable would just cause more problems for admins to handle with an already limited staff covering so many servers. You can join an unofficial that has rules against mixpacking.

[wide trellis]

You are, totally right. So im gonna play as any apexes in the game and use my skills to kill any gentle dinos, every small stupid new players who come to me, kill dinos of my group. So it will make more agressive carnivores and untrustable. Game will be more toxic. More unplayble apexes, and they become more useless for solo or small gruop gaming. So count how many carnivores die per second on the servers and how they less do nesting, compared to herbivores. Look at chat nobody likes to nest carnivores. It's like the extinction of predators. Remember, this is just a game where you try to insert cannibalism. In reality, it was a bad idea factor for the development of the specie. I understand that it should be in the game, just at least slightly nerf it.

[golden coral]

If you can even get anywhere growing an apex in the first place, yes, others should know to stay clear of you. That's kind of the point of an apex. Also last I heard, people play carnivores far more than herbivores overall, so not sure where you get that from. Also what's the issue here, cannibalism only applies to deino and cera that I know of, every other one has to go out of their way to get the mutation. And deino only really has itself to fear, so it makes sense there. Cera, well, not sure it needs it, but it also seems to not be the biggest issue with cera, at least not for now.

[wide trellis]

Bruh, there is a huge gap problem in development of balance through in one specie, not all species, its just include in one any canibalistic specie. In game there is just open simple option when you eat ur specie > bots > another species. Thats it. For apexes, i guess it must be bots > another species > same specie.

Ofc, i can go to unofficial, but why should i. Just make official GREAT

[golden coral]

I'm not sure I understand what the issue is? People can and will kill their own kind even as herbivores, for one reason or another. And why would you eat AI before another player? If that's what you mean with bots at least. Carnivores should favour eating herbivores, I think at least.

[elfin night]

git gud

if you cannot accept what a survival game is, then that's a you issue

Killing other players very much is a need in this game even when you are a herbivore. This is not some cuddling sim, not even with your own species

you got chomped by another cera? womp womp and now you know that it is not a good idea to do that again unless given a friendly sign

cannibalism isn't toxic, is just creating apex age control and giving the larger and stronger things something to worry about even as an adult 😭

[wide trellis]

😭 im not gonna explain no more. I cant show that u cant see. so gl hf

[elfin night]

maybe you will see eventually

wish you luck

we all start with rather scrubby mindsets

[hasty coyote]

For the current dinos that have cannibalism, it make sense and works. crocs are known cannibals irl, and currently they dont have anything else to share the waters with, so they eat each other a lot. Ceras are living garbage disposals so they'll eat anything, even each other. And to get the cannibal mutation on anything else, you have to work for it and it will now make you albino, so theres a clear indicator that you are not to be trusted.

[elfin night]

why bother

[elfin night]

just look at this rap

there's no convincing this person that not everyone is your friend in this game

[hasty coyote]

because flaming people who are tilted doesnt help them understand

[elfin night]

I really dont know how they expect to nerf cannibalism

just giving cannibals a flickering light or attaching a lie detector to every player's computer so you can tell when they are around or type in chat?

[hasty coyote]

but I can at least try to give a different perspective

[elfin night]

Or just kill someone for eating more than 2 players of their own kind in 24 hours?

[elfin night]

I know, but we did try already

we, not just me

[waxen trench]

worst idea EU

[golden coral]

@wide trellis It's already there, you have your own species on the diet list. You should be able to figure it out from there. Not to mention that you still shouldn't trust anyone you don't know, as any playable. Just have the approach that if something is able to kill you, it will.

[wide trellis]

make it red, EZ, in the list your own specie. btw gameplay of this creatures is suck

[golden coral]

Sure, you could maybe highlight that particular diet option in red or something as an extra warning, if that's really needed. But it won't help to explain that you're always at risk of being killed, by anything, at any time.

[wide trellis]

Exactly just make it red. And i tried to make good text. So they can just copypaste that or change as they wish and add to the game

[elfin night]

Or…you can just read the diet list and treat your own species just like any other predator you come across unless they are proven to be friendly

Like seriously, with due respect

If you have a cannibal species I just see it like “own species = just another predator”

Such as seeing a pack of dilos just as willing to kill you as a cera when you are one

[neon willow]

@wide trellis with all due respect, on cera and deino their own species is clearly written on the diet menu. However, more relevant to this point - when I started playing (before I learned better), I got killed as a stego juvi by an adult stego multiple times, I got pinned and killed by 'friendly' (at first glance) utahs multiple times, I have been added to group and then hunted multiple times as well. Most times, this occured with animals that were not cannibals (and this was before the addition of mutations so they literally got nothing from my body). "sound buttons, local chat, grouping with randoms and locating with your own specie are dangerous for survival for yourself" on ALL dinosaurs, not just cannibals, because people stink. At least cannibal species get a warning because they show up on their own menu

[thorn mountain]

@wide trellis easy way to not die. you see a deino or cera just walk the other way its not that hard lmao

especially if they aint chatting

a red button wont do none its on the diet you can see it. theres no need for it

[tall sphinx]

Only Cera @ionic moat

[ionic moat]

Yea

[elfin night]

Poor stego

If anything it needs a buff

And also growth increase to be more on par with trike and rex

Mainly rex though. Trike should maul it

[tender nebula]

It does the highest damage in the game and it’s gonna stay like that until brachiosaurus gets added..

[elfin night]

Nope

[tender nebula]

Maybe shant u right

[elfin night]

Rex already has a higher damage move, deino can still one tap 6 ton creatures, shant will likely do more damage, brachi is forgotten so it’s better to talk about cama, and then I’m betting most large strains will have far more devastating moves

Also stego’s whole thing is dmg

[tender nebula]

power swing does any where from 1500-3000 damage depending on where u hit

[elfin night]

Of course it should

[tender nebula]

Hypothetically, if Rex was 8 tons it would get mauled like deino and get 3 shotted to the head.

A fully grown trike doesn’t do as much damage as a 60% stego

The only thing that’s gonna save Rex is its pin ability

Otherwise it can NOT tank a stego

[tender nebula]

What do u expect haha

It’s 6 tons, with a muscular tail, and huge spikes

literally nothing should do more damage except a 15 ton+ creature like Shant

[elfin night]

More health, that x2 multiplier gone when larger things are added, and potentially a little more damage alongside power swing adjustments

[elfin night]

You are right

Meaning that its tail should be melting through the health of most other apexes

[tender nebula]

Yea I’m pretty sure even giga wouldn’t be able to kill a stego 💀

since gigas ability is mainly for sauropods

[elfin night]

Nah giga is gonna be a tough matchup for sure

And in fact I think it should be stego’s worst carnivore matchup

It is built to destroy it

[tender nebula]

Yes it is gonna be a tough matchup

I completely agree with that

But unlike Rex and spino, it doesn’t really have a ability to give it an advantage

spino can flip anky, meaning it can do the same with stego

And Rex can pin stego

But giga on the other hand

Really focuses on larger herbivores like Shant, sauropods etc

[elfin night]

It absolutely does

Giga has nightmarish bleeding and stego is not bleeding resistant

And also giga has been implied to have rather high bleed resistance due to that armor, and stego is a strong bleeder

And if giga is the most agile of the big three then it could simply not get melted like deino does, just hit and run

[viscid mica]

@jaunty nymph if you think omni is useless you either have some of the worst internet known to man kind OR aren’t experienced enough to know omni is super strong especially in numbers and if your group is decently skilled you can EASILY kill the entire roaster with 4-5 people (excluding deino sense it’s unironically impossible to pin not enough spots)

@midnight raven if you think it’s 100% death ratio you need time and experience nothing is 100% that’s entirely dependent on skill and experience

@wide trellis What are you playing to get cannabalised that much?

[eager saddle]

excluding cera camping a wall too because haha gastro

[viscid mica]

@compact cypress deino is built for ambush not sustained combat

[viscid mica]

No that’s easy

[eager saddle]

it bites you to death and you cant pounce it

[viscid mica]

You just need to get 3 on in rapid succession

[jaunty nymph]

my internet is fine ( no problems ever rec.) i play on a server with allways 15 -30 ping i guess if you say and hopfully as a good raptor player the rapi is fine so maby it fails on my skill

[viscid mica]

Skill issue

[eager saddle]

it's camping a wall bro??

[viscid mica]

Skill issue

[eager saddle]

it literally moves its mouse and you're off

[viscid mica]

Maybe, maybe not how many hours you got?

[compact cypress]

it has armour all around....must be for the fish right?

[viscid mica]

Better jump off faster than that or your team better get multiple on asap

[viscid mica]

Armour? Who told you that? Scales are sturdy but they certainly aren’t armour

[eager saddle]

brother that's just not how it goes when the opponent is camping the wall T_T

[viscid mica]

Imma do it to you again

[jaunty nymph]

round about 200h at raptor and 500h ingame

[eager saddle]

''oh you pinning a teammate? Just jump off quickly''

[eager saddle]

and it will still not be a solid argument xD

because contrary to popular belief saying ''skill issue'' is not a counterargument nor does it debunk one

[viscid mica]

Ah ya you got tons of time to get more aquatinted with combat spacing timing and coordination the biggest thing for raptor is everyone being same skill if there is any variation it’ll be hard

[compact cypress]

it has very good and thick scales..... technically bulletproof from upside

[viscid mica]

Don’t hit your teammates

[eager saddle]

uhuh

[slim dragon]

Like many other dinos in this game

[jaunty nymph]

ok so i need a all day groupe

[viscid mica]

Maybe but you do realize how much psi stego can output right?

[compact cypress]

like ?...anky and ?

[slim dragon]

Every dino with scales

[eager saddle]

so all of them in this game?

[slim dragon]

Anky and deino's armor are far from being on the same level

[viscid mica]

Ya if you want to really hunt big you’ll need the coordination

[compact cypress]

not much ....irl they measured....stego tail would break off

[viscid mica]

Bro that’s like comparing a 1/2inch steel plate to Abrams armour

[viscid mica]

Brother what

[slim dragon]

Allo wishes it would

Is that that same vein of study which deducted trike could not use its horns in combat ?

[compact cypress]

Deinosuchus possessed thick, hemispherical osteoderms, a form of armor, on its back for protection. These osteoderms, similar to those found on modern alligators and crocodiles, would have provided significant defense against predators and other threats. Deinosuchus also had large, crushing teeth, further enhancing its ability to survive in its environment.

[slim dragon]

Why are you guys discussing realism anyway

[viscid mica]

Go read his suggestion

He wants deino to be able to just tank stego

Stegos whole thing is insane DPS

[slim dragon]

Ok but then just say "balance comes first"

[viscid mica]

It does but imma still prove him wrong on both sides

[compact cypress]

why then stego to op ?

[slim dragon]

Who cares if deino irl had armor or could shoot lasers
In-game deino has no need for more health

[compact cypress]

balence stego to ?

[slim dragon]

I don't know why every deino player is so obsessed with killing stegos

[slim dragon]

You should rather compare stego to other animals it's supposed to fight
Right now there is trike, which obliterates it

Compared to animals deino should be having an even match-up with, which are... oh wait, there is none because deino is an ambusher, not a brawler

[viscid mica]

Stego isn’t OP stego is a APEX meant to brawl deino is a apex BUT it’s neiche and combat design is ambush not sustain

[compact cypress]

Stegosaurus and Deinosuchus lived in different time periods and environments, so they never actually encountered each other in real life. Stegosaurus roamed the Earth during the Late Jurassic period (about 155–150 million years ago), while Deinosuchus, a massive prehistoric crocodilian, lived during the Late Cretaceous period (about 82–73 million years ago)43dcd9a7-70db-4a1f-b0ae-981daa162054.

However, if we imagine a hypothetical battle, it would be an interesting matchup! Stegosaurus was a herbivorous dinosaur with a powerful tail armed with four sharp spikes (the "thagomizer"), which it could use for defense against predators. On the other hand, Deinosuchus was an apex predator with an immense bite force, capable of ambushing and overpowering large prey, including dinosaurs43dcd9a7-70db-4a1f-b0ae-981daa162054.

In a direct confrontation, Deinosuchus might have the advantage if it could ambush Stegosaurus near water, using its powerful jaws to deliver a crushing bite. However, if Stegosaurus managed to swing its tail spikes effectively, it could seriously injure or even kill Deinosuchus.

[viscid mica]

stego is supposed to survive Rex which is gonna be even bigger than it imagine if it couldn’t handle a deino

[slim dragon]

ChatGPT bruh

[viscid mica]

Good thing we don’t use realism this would be a horribly boring game everything getting 1 tapped

[compact cypress]

50 /50

[viscid mica]

Imagine if the game was 1-1 realism

stego unironically 1 tapping

[compact cypress]

it does

[slim dragon]

"ChatGPT, tell me stegosaurus would win against deinosuchus in a fight and explain why"

Boom, argument countered

[viscid mica]

Any wound meant certain death by infection

[viscid mica]

lol it doesn’t the reason deinos die so fast is cuz they are A LOT of head hitbox with little to no way to avoid it

[slim dragon]

Except for allo because allo just can't die when it should

[slim dragon]

Yes, we know you know how to use ChatGPT. Back to the argument please ?

[viscid mica]

I got a video to explain how bad allos had it

[compact cypress]

it didn't entirely generate...it has links

[slim dragon]

And I can tell you 100% the links have nothing to do with an hypothetical fight between stego and deino

[eager saddle]

and they wonder why schools now do mostly practical assignments x)

[viscid mica]

[viscid mica]

The only reason stego 1 taps most things is cuz we have nothing over 2 tons so no “real” mid sized Dino’s beyond deino for carnis which means nothing can compete with something as DPS monster a stego legit meant to duel apex’s

[eager saddle]

what? 🙂

[viscid mica]

Rex will drop shortly and completely put a massive end to stegos reign

If trike hasn’t already done that

[eager saddle]

what reign?

[viscid mica]

Nothing

[viscid mica]

As the most “op” aka strong Dino around atm

[eager saddle]

stego's ''reign'' stopped the second dibble came in

because it gets absolutely murdered by 2 good dibbles

[viscid mica]

Fair lol but it takes 2 and 2 that are competent and not scared of one backs off one dies

[eager saddle]

but it also takes competent carnivores to hunt stegos that are competent themselves

[viscid mica]

Oh ya

[eager saddle]

anything fighting a stego needs more than 2 because if they could win 1v1, stego would be awful to play

because it's slow AF

[viscid mica]

Stego is huntable if your good enough

Think only things that can’t really hunt carni side is carno and PT

[eager saddle]

on your own and the stego knows what it's doing?

[viscid mica]

Everything else does take a chance

[viscid mica]

Oh hell na

[eager saddle]

that's what I meant

[viscid mica]

Ya that’s why stego is dominant cuz nothing is big enough for all dat

[eager saddle]

if it could get 1v1'ed while both players know what they are doing, stego would just not be viable

[viscid mica]

Yup

[eager saddle]

so now that dibble can 2v1 it (and dibble is pretty popular) it is not NEARLY as dominant as it used to be

[viscid mica]

True but most groups would rather avoid

I mean I’ve nearly wiped out a 20 man omni and 3 man dibble

And I’m not that good as stego I’m decent well maybe good cuz stego is basic? I dunno

[eager saddle]

Yeah but they can. And the fact that you can get 1v2’ed is enough for a lot of people to just…swap to dibble

[viscid mica]

Fair fair

I mean this is all irrelevant within a month or so Rex’s and trikes will dominate these lands

Until Kentro #kentrosupremacy

[arctic sigil]

i never play as galli but is just unfun how easy you kill them

[viscid mica]

Most gallis are stupid and don’t evade and try and troll

Galli can easily avoid omni if they tried even a tiny little bit

[arctic sigil]

nah it would be a more fun matchup if they didnt get pinned by 1 omni

[viscid mica]

Gallis would destroy omni if they couldn’t

Super fast extremely good damage to size

Really think about gallis kit if omni couldn’t pounce onto the front of it

[arctic sigil]

damage pounce can deal a lot of damage

just trade some bites and then pounce and bye galli

[viscid mica]

You severely underestimate gallis DPS potential it’s fair sense you never experienced unpinnable galli

[arctic sigil]

supposing the run as fast a pachy while latched, and they dont get the same bucking as pachy it would still be a hard matchap for them but atleast they have that skill factor to win

[arctic sigil]

several times

i managed to kill ceras with them

[viscid mica]

Galli kick does roughly 60ish or more damage per hit(I dont know the actually value) you can blitz through hit and keep moving easily avoid g hits as you are the MOST agile thing in the game

[arctic sigil]

omni is more agile

agile its not the same as fast

[viscid mica]

Omni are NOT landing pounces on a galli

[steep gazelle]

If it's based on real life, something venomous like the troodon would kill everything easily...

[viscid mica]

Atleast not a competent one

[arctic sigil]

ambush exists

[viscid mica]

Again not competent ones

[arctic sigil]

also head pounce does a ton of damage

if they decide to tank i wonder if they would survive the alt + head pounce combo too

[viscid mica]

I’m still talking about competent players average sure your right but a good galli will decimate omnis

[steep gazelle]

80dmg After the bleed remove

[arctic sigil]

so they only chance is to trade hits

[viscid mica]

Similar to how carnos can completely wipe full omni groups but just afew less

[viscid mica]

Oh ya that’s more than enough

[arctic sigil]

but if they get caught once by a pounce they are diying

[viscid mica]

A good galli wouldn’t even need to trade hits with how much faster they are

Jump kicks and and what not

I’m pretty sure a galli even at its current high if it can’t be pinned wins the face to face

[arctic sigil]

a competent omni would kill a competent galli

[viscid mica]

Na

[cosmic pelican]

The standing kick does 75, the running and alt attack kicks do 85dmg

[viscid mica]

Sheeesh

Galli does have super high combat potential only cuz omni pin does omni win

Otherwise galli has a sizeable advantage

[viscid mica]

^

[arctic sigil]

i already tried fighting gallis without pounce and won most of the matchs

[viscid mica]

Cuz gallis will always fight like your gonna pounce

If they know you won’t they win

Gallis pre pin almost always won

[arctic sigil]

so there goes the skill factor

more fun than the actual matchup

imo

[viscid mica]

I guess no matter how much I explain galli pre pin you wouldn’t understand unless you experienced it