balance-feedback-discussion

[maiden ginkgo]

Snatching troodon, chickens and tacos would be awesome! Even if they can escape like deinos grab.

I can carry 2x fg troodon into the air on my back but can't pick them up in my mouth, wasted potential.

Dropping them from height would be awesome mechanic.

As for stam, I wish to see passive regen while gliding >60% stam like other dinos.

They don't need a stam buff or cost reduction.

[elfin night]

brug

[iron tree]

That'll most likely be quetzal's mechanic

[elfin night]

yeah quetz is likely getting something similar

[iron tree]

and troodon is too large for pteranodon to pick up

[elfin night]

and bud, you can't carry two troodons. Ptera never would be able to do that, not even walking

[maiden ginkgo]

More people would play being able to grab troodon or other smalls and fly.

[elfin night]

even hypsi might be too much unironically.

[elfin night]

ptera would look rather stupid doing that

if you are any educated about pterosaurs or how biomechanics work, to see it carrying a troodon would look so bad

it's like having a plane and attaching a 40 ton weight on its front part. No way it is flying

[maiden ginkgo]

Have I got a video for you... once I get on pc.

[elfin night]

What is it?

[maiden ginkgo]

They werent fg, had 2x troo on my pt, one jumped early the other... a wee bit late lol.

[elfin night]

That is…not really what I expected

But clearly not an indicative of ptera’s biomechanical capabilities to turn it into an actual game feature

[topaz elm]

people gotta realize sometimes you are just gonna get oneshot
at least now we have locational damage, back in legacy if he clipped your tail it was over

[neon willow]

My understanding is that they are adding thermals and slipstreams which will effectively let you climb using less stamina (this is also how the very long distance fliers irl like vultures and albatross fly with little effort irl). I thought I heard it was on HT already? But I may have been incorrect there.

Regardless, it seems like the devs do hear you, and want to make ptera less painful to move around (I also saw someone say it was getting ground movement adjusted too???).

But at the same time, limiting how long ptera can be in the air when its not using features like thermals is really important. Back on Spiro, it was a pretty common issue that ptera could literally peck stego or carno to death, and they couldn't do much about it because they couldn't outrun, they can't jump, and neither at the time had upward facing attacks. It was not fair to the full grown, full health carnos, ceras, and stegos. I don't personally mind if ptera takes advantage of a heavily injured dino to finish it off, but they should not be able to fly without any limits whatsoever - its unfair to the rest of the roster.

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message herbis don’t need to be easier i’ll give u that, but they should be strong enough to defend themselves

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message i wanted to upvote that but i am blocked by this dude

tbh i don’t really understand where all the downvotes came from, imo adult rex should totally one shot something carno/teno size… not with the regular bite but with the crash or whatever it has

[elfin night]

probably due to how specific it is

rather than whether it is agreeable or not

like...duh, why wouldn't it

[worthy steeple]

oh makes sense

[elfin night]

it's like saying herra should one shot a hypsi

[iron tree]

It's not just herrera's vomit animation

Dilo too

[elfin night]

Oh yeah that one takes a century as well

But you know, herra is just made of paper

[iron tree]

Yeah

[neon willow]

I mean... Idk. On one hand, to one shot a teno it would need an attack that does 1600 damage. That's more damage than stego (without the power swing), which honestly I think feels quite overpowered, given it also is fairly fast for its size and has a presumable 9500 HP to work with. Unless we're talking it's crush/pin mechanic, but the suggestion doesn't specify that.

Also, it's just an incredibly targeted suggestion. Why should it specifically one shot teno? Kinda feels like the suggestions where people are specifically debuffing or buffing one specific creature because they dislike how it plays with a specific matchup in the roster (like that suggestion saying Maia stun/knockdown should be reduced across the board because carno gets mopped due to its animation speed)

I hope that rex is balanced to play fairly with other dinos like trike and stego in its rough weight class (according to their intended play styles... Obviously a rex likely should be wiping the floor with deinos if they walk right up to one on land because they're not designed to be efficient land brawlers)

If that means it one or two shots teno, I'm okay with that. But it shouldn't one shot teno at the expense of also being incredibly overpowered against trike or stego for example

[crimson crater]

you can just run away from a rex as a teno btw

don’t see how its a debuff to it in particular or whatever

[neon willow]

It's just the way the suggestion is phrased. Like I said, it's more important that the rex is balanced against other apexes and the slower high mid-tiers. Especially because as you said, small tiers can generally run away

[steep otter]

Rex is not fast

Teno can just run away

If rex cacthes teno, its teno issue

[worthy steeple]

well yeah fair i guess

i also agree that rex shouldnt kill with just one bite, but it should with the special attack

[steep otter]

Rex per bite deals 850 currently, so in pure bites it 2 shots teno, with a crush it will one shot him

[neon willow]

The suggestion makes it sound like rex should one shot teno regardless of the impacts to the rest of the roster. I don't mind rex one shotting teno, but only if it doesn't affect other matchups balance

[steep otter]

Rex can also knock teno down with headbut

[neon willow]

Right... I'm not debating that. Moreso I'm saying that if rex one-shotting teno requires balancing rex so that other dinos that can't run away (like stego) are disadvantaged, then rex shouldn't one-shot teno. Whereas if balancing rex so that it isn't at a disadvantage against trike and stego requires that it does enough damage to one shot teno, then do it. Does that make sense? How rex balances against the teno in combat really shouldn't be the most important factor for deciding how much damage rex attacks do

Balancing against trike, stego, deino, and maybe maia should be way more important for setting rex's damage values

[worthy steeple]

why does it look like chatgpt type feedback #balance-feedback message lol

[minor axle]

"it is recommended"

[worthy steeple]

yeah.. lmaoo

[hasty coyote]

could be a translator

[warm flax]

he is just using gpt grammar check to make a feedback post probably

[minor axle]

I mean, regardless I don't think it's a terrible suggestion

I've found out a dilo can get stuck in a dumpster, the one with a slop leading out.

Which is partially ironic

But also really funny. (unstuck works to get out but it shouldnt be needed in that scenario)

[maiden temple]

Made me chuckle when I saw teno on that suggestion. As if that's gonna be a matchup

[cinder vessel]

What are some thoughts on taking away the grazing from herbivores and increasing diet spawns closer to waters. Like Delta but doing the same around all waters

[hasty coyote]

I think taking away grazing entirely is overkill, tho I do agree with nerfing it so it isnt sustainable. Whether making low diets have negatives again or adding a max to the amount of grass you can eat. Especially for adult apex herbivores who should not be able to just live off grass and the occasional bush and be fine. Also moving plant spawns closer to water only works for the mz zones that are close to water. Plenty of zones are further out and away from nearby water sources. Imo having the different types of zones with different water and plant placement makes them feel more unique and opens up different strategies.

[crystal stream]

Opinions on old carno??

[keen plover]

which version

[crystal stream]

Like Spiro Carno pre nerf carno whatever you want to call it

[pale token]

@minor goblet this is an excellent idea. Kind of like the horseshoe crabs on POT

[minor goblet]

I'm glad you think so! Honestly, I would be thrilled if any kind of symbiotic or parasitic relationship mechanic between species was added

[keen plover]

I mean Spiro had like 6 versions of carno but ah probs update 5 carno

update 4.5-5 carno was probs the best version of carno for me

[half widget]

#balance-feedback message

don’t nerf the pounce. nerf the pin. pin as a mechanic is becoming really destructive for omni overall as a playable imo (canni raptors for one…). clunky nerfs left and right for the sake of forcing pin to make sense. it doesnt. a cera being pinned indefinitely by 3 omnis is like a grown adult being pinned to the ground by 3 kindergarteners. equal in weight doesnt mean stunned for the rest of your life. wrestling matches would be pretty boring if that were the case.

make pin a temporary stun or something or give the pounced animal some reprieve to escape (remove it for all i care, personally), make pounce less buggy, give it some QOL improvements like reduced sprint cost, lower bite cooldown, and maybe increase the stamina drain to the omni from being bucked.

— an omni player, bias is unavoidable, feel free to offer thoughts.

[noble spindle]

When the trike and rex is out, is a 1v1 between them gonna be fair?

[keen plover]

Fair fights don't really exist in this game. One creature usually holds a decent advantage in a matchup over the other

[noble spindle]

Do you think that we could see a good circle of life in the near end product?

[elfin night]

@finite violet just rot the fish bro

[slim dragon]

The fact this exists is infuriating

[elfin night]

Why

[dusky surge]

it should not be a thing lol

the fact that there exists a mechanic where you can "cook" a fish is the dumbest thing in this game to me

[slim dragon]

Deino cannot it fresh fish but can eat it when it's rotten ?
How does that make the sloghtest sense to you

[slim dragon]

Everytime someone mentions cooking fish in this game I get a little more mad about it

[elfin night]

Yeah, cooking gives things different properties

[slim dragon]

But it's NOT cooking
You're just letting it rot for the Replicator's sake

[elfin night]

True, it was just a deliberately bad response

Tbh I think only cera should get all nutrients from rotting animals

Deino is just eeeeh especially with schooling fish until it is one ton or so

[elfin night]

@last surge how big was your gator?

[ornate spruce]

#balance-feedback message I'm not sure landing on your neck with its mass is healthy.

[elfin night]

and with that height

like easily +5 meter fall lol

Imagine landing on your head after falling from higher than a NBA basketball hoop is

and weighing 2 tons on top of that

[dusky surge]

its so weird that people seem to just forget scale when they play this game lol

[keen plover]

looks fg?

[elfin night]

not really with that running, but if so then it's even worse

[keen plover]

Regardless it's massive lol

[elfin night]

absolutely, everything looks so much smaller than it actually is. Like bruh, Beipi is almost the size of a person

[keen plover]

Air time as a multi-ton animal...

[elfin night]

and a fall that high

a human can die if it falls headfirst from like a meter

now imagine something at least 40 times heavier and five times higher

[last surge]

90%

[elfin night]

alright then

have you even seen a NBA basketball hoop?

how tall those and the board are placed?

now imagine falling on your chin from the very top of those while weighing 7 tons

[half widget]

it was likely your momentum. if you slowly & deliberately walked off the edge, i honestly think you’d have lived.

pretty sure the game calculates fall damage at a higher value depending on your velocity. so just don’t sprint next time.

or sprint fast enough to clear the ledge next time and hit the water lmao

[eager saddle]

Tbf I’ve lost 90% of my health as a raptor for falling 1 meter, it’s definitely wonky🤣

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message typical “plz nerf cera” take

[elfin night]

I think it is to prevent the megapacks of a naturally cannibal creature

But honestly that will fade away organically with the release of Rex and allo (there will be megapacks of those )

[cinder vessel]

Just thinking about how boring the life must be for someone who (once fully grown) has nothing to look forward to except trolling. For role-playing purposes especially.

[minor axle]

Role play wise you should enjoy the peace of you really were getting into the role, as most large herbis would

[topaz elm]

stego apex
cerato small end mid tier

when cerato (a defensively based playable btw) attempts to hunt stego (another defensive based creature, this time a herbivore apex) it doesnt go well

taking the defensive playable to an offensive playstyle is like the last thing you should ever do

allo can adequately hunt stego because its a mid tier designed to hunt things the same size and larger than it
multiple allos can pin stego to the ground

cerato is meant to maul some things sure, but really that should be limited to maia/diablo as they are closer in stature to cerato

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message this is going to get so many downvotes

[topaz elm]

can you tell me what would be wrong with it?

[worthy steeple]

i’m about to 2v1 ceras, i will do it and then come back and explain

[topaz elm]

it doesnt nerf cerato's biteforce, speed, stamina, make it too loud, or force it to do anything besides removing its buff when there are too many of them

if there are 8 ceratos working together, in a cannibalistic species where they are supposed to kill one another when already in a full group, they should be more than capable of taking on whatever attacks them

using 8 or more ceratos is nothing more than a crutch and a skill issue, the least we can do is give their victims more of a ground to stand on when being attacked by something that should be frowned upon in game

even in cerato v cerato match ups, everybody is on the same playing field since everybody has the same armor (0) and everybody is dealing the same damage (assuming they are all adults)

[worthy steeple]

alright, those 2 ceras now in cera heaven and i can explain stuff.

i think it’s not really the right way to balance body buff, why should cera get punished if there’s more ceras around.

my only real issue with body buff is that there’s no way to tell if cera is buffed or not, there can be a fresh dead stego in the bush giving it 50% resistance and you will have no idea.

its also the reason i don’t like the body buff, its pure magic. i think the way to tell player its buffed is increase the volume and slightly change the charge sound so you know for sure cera is buffed and you better run away.

nerfing the body buff if there’s more ceras around is not the way imo, you can always move, you don’t have to fight cera near body

[crimson crater]

i agree with the second paragraph, there should be some audio cue to indicate that cera has the body buff, like the charge bite sound being deeper and slightly louder

[worthy steeple]

yeah, that would be sick

[topaz elm]

the thing is that its supposed to be a counter method to cerato megapacks steaming through everybody
when one person falls trying to fight off a huge overpacking group of ceras, the ceratos get buffed, they get stronger allowing them to take on the other victims easier

when fighting ceratos especially in this quantity you got to cliffs, water, somewhere you can defend your weak spots
if you leave you will be killed since there is not really a way for any of the current roster or hell even the future roster to handle that many

this would just be for things like stego or diablo, who lose a member but arent allowed to stop fighting since the ceratos want more blood

[worthy steeple]

i think the counter to overpack issue specifically will be adding other bigger carnivores

[crimson crater]

the root of the problem is cera being somewhat overtuned

[topaz elm]

and that is fundamentally flawed since the players who overpack will simply use the new big bad

[worthy steeple]

adding stronger playable won’t nerf cera, it’s still overtuned, but at least we will get rid of cera hordes (maybe)

[crimson crater]

only natural for people to want to play as the “biggest and baddest” carnivore, typical isle player mentality

[topaz elm]

thats why all the "blank will save the isle!" type arguments/videos are inherently wrong, the only reason they are playing cerato and especially in these quantities is that they are unstoppable

yeah get rid of cerato hordes and replace them with what? rex hordes? allo hordes?

[worthy steeple]

well then we need a whole new mechanic that will punish people for that, but i don’t think it should be cera exclusive

[topaz elm]

cerato is the one we know the most about and it is why im basing this suggestion off them
we can branch it out to prevent this

[worthy steeple]

tbf i don’t understand why people don’t just take 8 maias and murder whole server without any issues, maybe because cera is more of a allrounder and has easier combat

if i was doing that i would totally just do crazy maia overpack, no one can survive that

[vale brook]

because maia requires actual skill to properly use most of its kit offensively

[worthy steeple]

yeah

[topaz elm]

cerato is in the correct spot for itself, its meant to be a strong, not too strong bully who can overpower and kick away anything its size and maybe slightly larger
the addition of things like allo, rex would stop the cerato is too strong idea by presenting cerato with a NEED to use its defensive abilities

however by that point there will be so many allos and rexes that cera will be pretty much left behind

[vale brook]

cerato is pretty easy

there's skilled players, sure, but the skill ceiling is only so high with cerato

[topaz elm]

yeah its meant to be super easy, it can literally eat rotten meat and bones

[worthy steeple]

i don’t mind cera being new players friendly if that’s what you mean

[vale brook]

something like maia has to think about when to switch stances, which attack has the best CC/damage ratio in game, how to manage its stamina to ensure it can still use its speed if it needs to, etc

[topaz elm]

dying as cerato, is akin to dying as herrera
you pushed yourself to do something you shouldnt do

[vale brook]

no im just saying thats why maia, despite being better than cera at murderous activities in the hands of skilled players, simply requires more skill to reach that point than cera

[topaz elm]

cerato is new player friendly already, its already got that sort of culture

[worthy steeple]

well you can say that to 26 ceras i killed on eu4 last month

[topaz elm]

the maia new hordetest speed im salivating

[worthy steeple]

👹👹👹

[crimson crater]

you want cera to use its defensive abilities more but at the same time you advocate to nerf the thing that aids it in corpse bullying. just make cera a worse hunter that’s all it needs tbh

[worthy steeple]

they call me cheesy the humblest

[worthy steeple]

i agree

[topaz elm]

im advocating for 8 ceratos to not have the body buff
if you have 8 ceratos and cannot bully someone, you are doing something wrong with your life

if you have the full amount for two full groups of cerato and you cannot bully anything off a corpse, thats a you problem

[crimson crater]

should dilos venom be less potent if there’s like 8 of them during the night in close proximity? your logic can be used on every playable

[hasty coyote]

if your whole issue is megapacks, then targeting cera specifically wont stop the issue from arising with another species. Imo, the best way to prevent it is to instead hurt their sustainability, so megapacks can't survive for long. Easiest way to do it with carnivores is to simply make megapacks stinky, and as such give a massive warning sign to other players that walking death is approaching. With that warning, players will just avoid the carnivore hordes, and they will either get bored because of a lack of hunts or more likely starve out due to the lack of hunts.

[topaz elm]

the difference between dilo and cerato is dilo has to buy in to use its ability
dilo has to actually physically go up to you, bite you multiple times to get you to the different stages and every subsequent dilo then must bite to get the luxury of clones

8 ceratos with 50% armor and 50% bleed resistance attacking you seems fair?

[topaz elm]

cerato is the current species being used as an example because it is the example we have
this will 100% happen with bary, allo, sucho, rex, spino etc

just depends on who is strongest at the time

[crimson crater]

takes dilo 3 bites at night to take a 3.8T maia to stage 3 iirc lol

[hasty coyote]

then you agree it isnt a cera issue, its a general game issue. Which is why it needs a general game fix, not just a specific cera nerf. Make megapacks stinky

[topaz elm]

the thing is it cannot be a one size fits all solution
we target the problem child, make it fair for everybody then move onto the next

for example you said creatures should make noise to know that walking death is approaching
how would that work for those attempting to run away
say you are hidden in a bush, your attacker cant pin you down but he knows you are nearby
all he has to do is stand with your vicinity and when his creature starts to growl he will just check that area

it has to go creature to creature to be effective as they need to be accomodated individually

[topaz elm]

well then sure the more dilos are in one area the less potent venom should become
we'll reason it with the different proteins in dilo's saliva are harming each other more than they are doing something to the actual prey if that makes you happy

i think that would actually work well
give the dinosaur who specializes in killing campers and not putting itself in danger a nerf for abusing its abilities

after 4 dilos bite a creature then any other dilo's venom will be nullified

only the first 4 can spawn clones to harm that creature

[hasty coyote]

I never said make noise, I said make stinky. You know the megapack scent that rarely shows up? Expand upon it. Make groups have a more noticeable scent if they are mix/megapacking, the more and bigger dinos there are, the more stinky the mix/megapacks get. If it gets bad enough, make it automatically open up the compass automatically to give a warning. However, these groups wont be able to see their scent since they are within the mix/megapack.

[topaz elm]

that actually does feel like a pretty good idea

[hasty coyote]

So essentially, you have an early warning sign that says "danger over there" so players can avoid them. And it can't be abused by trolls since its basically the same thing as follwing someone and spamming calls lol

[topaz elm]

different symbols to differentiate mostly herbivore/mostly carnivore mixpacks or ones with a somewhat even mix so you know what to watch out for

[topaz elm]

how would the game know the difference between mixpackers and people spending a long time in a close proximity together, like a hunt or an ambush predator

[hasty coyote]

ambush predators wont have to care since the prey can't smell it (due to being within said "mixpack"), and they likely wont trigger it at all unless theres like 2 full groups. And long hunts generally cause commotion anyway and again, it would generally have to be a lot of people around to really cause it in most cases, and if you have that many people you can likely fight off whoever is 3rd partying (if they even want to to begin with because they think you're a mixpack).

Plus different "levels" of mixpacking should have a lesser or greater affect on the scent. Like a group of tenos with 1 too many members prob would be such a minor scent you couldnt smell them unless you were already close enough to see them, if there even was a sent. A group of 8 ceras on the other hand would likely be able to be smelt from like an entire zone away (if horde was in highlands, you could smell them in SP). A giant apex mixpack would be able to be smelt from across the map.

[topaz elm]

makes sense

[worthy steeple]

i think the difference is that you can easily avoid the body buffed cera, but avoiding dilos is problematic since they’re one of the fastest dinos in the game

which means dilos getting nerf for overpacking actually makes more sense lol

[topaz elm]

yeah i also explained that would actually be a good suggestion

after 4 dilos bite a creature no other dilos can, they can still bite for damage but only the original 4 can spawn clones

[worthy steeple]

i think some kind of mechanic discouraging mixpacking and overpacking is a good idea, but targeting cera specifically is not good even tho it’s the playable that overpacks the most.

[topaz elm]

well like i said this isnt targetting cerato this is going over mix/megapacking one creature at a time

Find what is the key that makes their megapack so strong besides the obvious numbers game and try to nerf and eliminate that factor to put them back on an even playing field

[worthy steeple]

i see that mechanic affecting cera in general, not just the body buff, body buff is the thing i care least about since it’s easily avoidable

[topaz elm]

like if you got more than 6 diablos, game makes your spar slower or something like that
reason it with that "diablo isnt putting in as much effort since it feels safe with so many of its own kind to protect it" or something

[worthy steeple]

the body buff is not what makes cera packs strong tbf, id say in the current roster cera literally doesn’t need body buff, it would make sense if there were carnivores bigger than it in the game, but for now its just has it

any overpack is strong and cera one in particular and body buff is really not the thing that gives cera its strength

[worthy steeple]

idk, i don’t like this tbh, like at all

simple damage nerf could be so much better, but again how the game is going to tell if the player is overpacking or just staying in the same area with other players

if they add anti overpack mechanic i want it to be connected to elder mechanic, as devs said if you ruin everyone else’s gameplay you will not become elder

(don’t remember exact quote)

but yeah im okay with game giving players freedom to overpack and stuff but they will not reach the full potential because of that

[topaz elm]

well whats gonna stop them from separating then rejoining as elders

faster deterioration into seniors?

[worthy steeple]

idk really, i don’t know what on devs mind, but they will probably figure something out

they could add simple anti overpack mechanic a while ago, like years ago but they never did, which probably means they have something else in mind

[vale brook]

https://tenor.com/view/wendywilliams-wendy-williams-hmm-stan-twitter-hmm-yeah-ok-gif-261398401906912021

[worthy steeple]

idk next time i see kissen in the chat i will ask about the anti overpack mechanic, maybe they’re already working on something similar

[iron tree]

@velvet rose "overpowered"

How can a defensive animal that's too slow to chase you be op?

If you engage it, it's on you if you die.

Stego is a glass cannon apex. There's nothing that should have a chance aside from dibble and packs

[velvet rose]

do you even know what glass cannon means? it's literally the tankiest land dino in the entire game, by a huge margin

[iron tree]

Compare it to rex and trike

[velvet rose]

compare it to things that dont exist yet

[iron tree]

Trike is already in the game

[velvet rose]

on a testing branch

[iron tree]

And dibble 11 shots stego

Stego is squishy for its size

[velvet rose]

any other re*arded things you want to get off your chest?

[iron tree]

Nothing forces your to fight stegos

[iron tree]

I see...we're getting quite offensive because of criticism

Anyway

[velvet rose]

i mean 'just dont fight it' is fine, and what everyone does at this point, but doesnt detract from it being obviously overpowered

you're literally just ragebaiting or braindead if you dont think stego is overpowered currently. there's legit nothing to talk about regarding it.

[iron tree]

Being able to defend itself =/= overpowered

[velvet rose]

it literally one shots every carnivore in the game with an omnidirectional attack at 21%, lmao.

[iron tree]

Maia was op in its ht because it could demolish and outrun carnivores

[velvet rose]

a trike can defend itself, but you can actually flank it

[elder steppe]

Isn't it multiple tons at 21%. I know trike is like 3 tons at 21%

[iron tree]

Try it with a trike using spar well

There are things you shouldn't fight

A 6 tonne stegosaur is one of them

[velvet rose]

why did you even ping me, you're literally just saying same thing I am

[dusky surge]

yes that's the difference between their niches

stego is meant to be a flank defender, trike is meant to be exceptionally easy to flank but a powerhouse from the front

[iron tree]

^

[velvet rose]

problem is stego can tail strike things in front of it, lol

the hitbox is completely unreal

[iron tree]

Also, stego takes 2x damage on its head

[elder steppe]

I pinged because it makes sense for a dino twice the weight of most carnivores at 21% to insta kill on a head shot with a spiky flail.

[dusky surge]

doesn't that have a lengthy animation

[velvet rose]

no.

[iron tree]

That can be desync too

[elder steppe]

It does have a wonky hitbox sometimes, but that can maybe be doubled with desync like porosus said

[velvet rose]

they could change 100% of its body to take head damage and you still couldnt beat it as anything currently in the game lol

everyone here understands 'you literally can't fight it as anything in the game right now', so not sure why you're pinging me to say it isn't overpowered

[iron tree]

But because of some technical stuff you can't just demand nerfs

[dusky surge]

deino can beat it in one go with the right circumstance

dibble can easily obliterate it

[velvet rose]

i mostly just pretend deino doesn't exist

when it ocmes to balance discussions

[iron tree]

You don't have to fight it if you can't beat it

[elder steppe]

Every other carnivore in the game except dieno is max 1,300 kg. Stego is 6,000 kg, of course it's near unkillable with the current roster, it was put in way to early and dondi has frequently said that

[iron tree]

Just ignore them. that's what I do

[velvet rose]

yeah so we agree?

I think they could massively nerf out of it's tail hit range (read: can't hit in front of itself) and/or stack a lot of it's weight growth to further in it's lifecycle

hate to keep spamming the same number, but it's ridiculous you can just live in a sanctuary until you're 1 shotting anything.

[iron tree]

You'll be surprised on how fast stego is gonna drop against rex if it doesn't know what it's doing

[velvet rose]

yeah well I won't complain about stego being unkillable when something that kills it exists...

[dusky surge]

honestly i still think stego will need some buffs for rex but we gotta wait and see that

[iron tree]

Dibble exists

[dusky surge]

but that's simply because rex is on a whole other league

[iron tree]

Same

I think an agility buff would be neat

[iron tree]

Enter Diabloceratops

[elder steppe]

I am pretty sure it is balanced for when the dinos that can reliably kill it will be in the game. I think it hitting in front of itself is fine, it would be near defenseless if it couldn't do that with it small bite attack.

I have seen stegos frequently killed by raptors, troodons and dibbles before though. There are things that can kill it, but it requires decent teamwork

[iron tree]

If you wanna demolish stegos, go play dibble. I love dibble:)

[dusky surge]

HONESTLY, a drift is something stego NEEDS.

Nearly every other creature but stego has one

[iron tree]

Okay a drift would be sick

[elder steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/tokyo-drifting-xe40-gif-19085078

[iron tree]

When Deino drift?

[dusky surge]

fr tho, look at EVERY other creature bar deino (a pure aquatic), and you'll notice they all have some level of drift

stego, weirdly, doesn't

[elder steppe]

I don't think dilo has a drift. I never drift as dilo

[iron tree]

It does

[dusky surge]

it does

[iron tree]

It's just terrible

[elder steppe]

damn skill issue then

[dusky surge]

hell even TRIKE has a drift, there's no excuse for stego's case

[iron tree]

Also, rex should not get a drift

[dusky surge]

trike has a drift tho idk man

[elder steppe]

I feel like it would be weird seeing stego drift, it doesn't look stable/wide enough or small enough to pull it off in my mind

[iron tree]

It probably could

Just look at how it throws its weight around when swinging

[elder steppe]

maybe, it just looks weird when i try to imagine it. I just imagine those double decker busses tipping over

Like too tall and not wide enough

[iron tree]

Doesn't matter

#stegobuff

[elder steppe]

Only when the other apexes are added. It would turn unstoppable right now if it could drift and juke away from headshots

https://tenor.com/view/shoryuken-dinosaur-the-isle-physics-old-version-gif-14798209

[minor axle]

Isn’t they already the plan?

[dusky surge]

@outer storm that's what's happening

[keen plover]

"Ecosystem" in the isle 😭

[outer storm]

Well we should atleast try

[dusky surge]

try what lol

they're adding rex and trike at the same time

[keen plover]

Maybe we'll see an actual ecosystem one day but since launch its been a carnivore cesspool. Even with herbi's being "stronger" I see more carnivores

[elfin night]

@velvet rose mfw the apex does big damage (dw they’re adding Rex and allo soon)

[keen plover]

Allo gaming soon!!!

OMG

[elfin night]

Slopsaurus

Soyjak bait

[keen plover]

[elfin night]

“Oh my favorite dinosaur ever, the allosaurus!!!”

[keen plover]

🥰

[elfin night]

Meanwhile pinning all small game

More untouchable than dibbles and stegos

Good game design

[keen plover]

😁

Can't wait!!!

[elfin night]

So good and skillful

Now not only omnis are stuff that I cannot touch

Allos too

[keen plover]

In all honesty though, these abilities need some conditions lol

[elfin night]

They really do

I don’t feel like losing a dilo to a juvenile allo because they pressed the rmb on the tip of my tail and my health then slowly drains from 100 to 0

With no way to escape

[keen plover]

💀

[hasty coyote]

better yet, losing a fg cera to a half grown allo

[keen plover]

imagine if juvi/sub allo is fast

[dusky surge]

honestly give it the carno/cera treatment

[glacial apex]

#balance-feedback message vote me for president

And i will fix the isle, one change at a time

[dusky surge]

no how dare you desecrate the good name of Troodon

[glacial apex]

I am the number one troodon lover, i would never disrespect my boy trood

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-the-isle-gmod-troodon-troodon-the-isle-dilophosaurus-gif-9629496049012538059

[dusky surge]

and yet you have

you made troodon boring meta, the worst thing you could do to him

you sicken me

[glacial apex]

You know.. youre right, it would become a boring meta

ill reconsider my actions

[keen plover]

😰

[dusky surge]

it does not deserve the rights of omni

[keen plover]

tbf as long as it's like those 2 it isn't bad. Being like diablo and maia would be a worse fate

Nothing deserves that....

[dusky surge]

it is the same tier as them...

new idea

[keen plover]

stop

[dusky surge]

im liking where this is going

[keen plover]

I want better for those 2 😭

[elfin night]

it's going to be so good

just like how omni is more lethal vs small game than carno

cant wait for solo allos to just pin anything smaller and be untouchable

skill? what is that?

[keen plover]

Isle and "Skill" 😭

[elfin night]

Omni: oh yeah I'm so good at this game, I can take on troodon packs

[cosmic pelican]

My clip woo yeah woo

Im so famous fr fr

[keen plover]

Yeah. Most playables lack skill requirements sadly. Omni being one of them vs smaller animals lol

The amount of ceratos that still have manual alt attack off... And also don't know how to buck and just turn in circles lol

[elfin night]

you are a celebrity in my heart

[cosmic pelican]

🥔 ❤️

[keen plover]

Sad that most are carried by their playables

[elfin night]

yeah lotta scrubs around

hence why I respect dryos, hypsis, beipis, troos and pteras the most

Maias and dibbles too, stegos to an extent as well

and I guess herra and big game hunter omnis and carnos can have a very high skill cap

but cera, omni vs small game, dilos and deino are negative skill

[cosmic pelican]

Endurance hunter herrera is peak skill ngl. Managing stamina on herrera is super hard.

[elfin night]

it is

[cosmic pelican]

Also the ground jumps https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1312562061863026789/1356711955804717288/FC51931.MP4?ex=67ef8a38&is=67ee38b8&hm=0f016c8e8707d72efcea3e210b3cef072a337bb1c5739ec369dbec63bf9f72ba&

[elfin night]

hence why I did mention the skill cap

like yeah stomping clueless players in sp is easy

[cosmic pelican]

(It bled out after this btw)

[elfin night]

but going on the ground and using hills for land jumps and such is high skill

I love herra

10/10 gameplay and visual design

[keen plover]

I think every carni should be at minimum teno difficulty in terms of combat if they're meant to be mauling larger stuff

Like teno v teno is really cool. A good teno can maul a herd of bad tenos in a fight

While a mid cera and a good cera have a good chance of killing each other

I guess the skill that comes from teno is the ability to punish attacks that are whiffed

Cerato has no punishment in messing up an attack

[worthy steeple]

it’s easy, just don’t move

[crystal stream]

Oml I jst realized how much they rlly nerfed carnos weight Carno irl weighed 2 tons 😭😭

Dibble weighed 1 or 2 tons tf are the devs doing with these weights I thought this game supposed to be realistic lol

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-mmm-cheesy-cheese-cheesy-gif-19257011

[worthy steeple]

STOP IT STOP IT PLESSE

[cosmic pelican]

No.

Every time you write bait, you get it.😁

[worthy steeple]

HAVE SOME MERCY

[glacial apex]

wow wow lets not go as far as to say dibbles

[dusky surge]

why not

[glacial apex]

i just dont see the high "skill ceilling" in dibbles

when i played them, my friend and i just did whatever we wanted with no worry about ever dying

dibble can tank a whole lot and just deal out insane amount of dmg with a lucky hit

heck even a baby dibble does insane amount of dmg

[viscid mica]

@velvet rose I mean you can always just not go near stegos which tbh are more rare than common (anything weaker is faster)

@brave estuary it’s that slow so they don’t demolish everything else by simply walking them down

@outer storm Rex and trike will be added at the same time they are currently in testing which is why it’s 1 rn and not both

[elfin night]

Dibble does take skill

Sliding, switching for the sparring and normal modes to vary your attacks, capitalizing on your knockdown openings, blocking…

It’s strong but it does take skill

[viscid mica]

Dibble is objectively easy to get good at though.

[minor axle]

Dibble is hella easy. Not saying there isn’t a ceiling to get better at, but it also has a basement level floor.

Which, especially with the way the isle works, I’d argue is more important since it’s not the most teaching of games

[elfin night]

I mean, it’s super easy to get behind bad dibbles or tiring them out if they just slide

[glacial apex]

all a dibble has to do is stand next to a wall

or a cliff

and there are imo very minor differences between a "good" and "bad" dibbles

[minor axle]

It’s easy to do anything to bad players. I’ve had bad Omnis flat out miss over my head as a dilo.

[elfin night]

Good dibble absolutely obliterates a bad one

Especially because you gotta know about sparring

[glacial apex]

thats cool and all but that still doesnt mean there is a lot of skill expression from that dino

[elfin night]

There is, just look at hypsilophodon’s vids fighting with dibble and then the cera ones fighting bad dibbles

[hasty coyote]

From playing as and against them, there is a major difference, that difference is if they know how to use their mobility. If their alt attacks are super easy to bait and have high end lag, so a bad Diablo that alt spams can die to even a single cera that knows its spacing. However a good Diablo can cover its flanks very well by mixing drifts, spar mode, and regular mode which makes it incredibly hard to kill unless it’s outnumbered a good amount.

[elfin night]

The difference is ABYSMAL

[hasty coyote]

A bad Diablo will just get shredded by 2 good ceras with each cera taking like 1 hit at most. A good Diablo can fight off 2 good ceras while still being yellow.

[glacial apex]

dibble copium is unimaginable

a "bad" dibble would be someone who doesnt play video games

[hasty coyote]

The “bad” diablos I am referring to are like 2/3rds of diablos lol. Most of them alt spam or don’t know how to drift and die to a good cera group. Because the majority of players in this game are very bad at pvp.

[minor axle]

There are people bad at dibble, but the are still decent by default on the continuum

[glacial apex]

yea dibble by deafult is a strong dino

[elfin night]

the copium is unimaginable

dibble is strong but still there's a high ceiling

higher than cera and dilo will ever have

[glacial apex]

lmao

[hasty coyote]

Fair, that’s due to its size and design. A decent Diablo can 1v1 most things currently. But the real skill expression for diablo is with multiple targets, as Diablo (like all ceratopsians) are designed to just win most 1v1s. However, their flanks are vulnerable, so being able to protect those flanks is the main skill expression.

[outer storm]

Lol

[elfin night]

git gud

[outer storm]

Herbivores dont have skill ceilings

They are tutorial dinos

[elfin night]

that is a bafflingly bad take

[outer storm]

You always have a bad take bro

[elfin night]

you think maia is a tutorial dino? Teno?

[eager saddle]

[outer storm]

I read your feedback lolol

[hasty coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/xingxing-monkey-banana-disgusted-onthe12thfloor-gif-14083291628261197232

[elfin night]

which one

[outer storm]

All of them

[steep gazelle]

tutorial dino is cerato

[eager saddle]

yes they do?

[elfin night]

calling Maia, Teno and Pachy tutorial dinos is crazy

[outer storm]

Ok fine maybe not pachy

[elfin night]

^^^^

Cera

[outer storm]

But everyone else

[eager saddle]

yeaaaaaah no

[elfin night]

maia?????

[outer storm]

Maia is easy lol

[eager saddle]

uhuh

[outer storm]

Literally op

[elfin night]

try a 1v1 against a decent cera

[outer storm]

I never died as maia without directly suiciding

[steep gazelle]

maia easy?

[elfin night]

please tell me you are not serious

[hasty coyote]

Maia is pretty tutorial tbh.

[eager saddle]

that's not a maia thing, that's a you thing

[elfin night]

combat wise not really

[outer storm]

No lol im trash

I play herbivores when i dont want to try

Or think

[eager saddle]

If I don't wanna think I play cera

[outer storm]

Cera is the only carnivore that is somewhat easy

[steep gazelle]

Maia is the hardest dino to play, especially against good players

[elfin night]

yeah because (HT) Dilo, Cera, Deino, Carno, Omni and Herra are so hard to use on a basic level right?

[outer storm]

Yes

[viscid mica]

Not really, too be honest if you have a basic understanding of combat it takes a very short amount of time to be a “skilled” dibble and you can’t really go beyond that like, a solo dibble no matter how good isn’t beating a solid 3 man cera

[outer storm]

All of these dinos will die of starvation if you dont play well

[elfin night]

yeah it is

[viscid mica]

This is objectively wrong

[elfin night]

well

maybe actually, not 100%

because cera is nasty with the charged bite

[viscid mica]

Cera is very easy same thing as dibble easy to start is to get good all skill comes down to basic combat knowledge

[outer storm]

Ig

[elfin night]

not playing well: AI literally not appearing completely beyond your control

[outer storm]

But omni herrera dilo deino are way harder than any herbivore in the game

[glacial apex]

trood

[viscid mica]

The two Dino’s with the highest skill cap as of right now are omni and teno

[outer storm]

And trood

[elfin night]

I could probably grow ANY carnivore with one hand

[viscid mica]

As you can hear trash or insane as either

[steep gazelle]

dilo? bite, run and spam clone?

[outer storm]

If you think diablo has a skilll ceiling than no you cant lol

[viscid mica]

Herrera, dilo and omni? Naaaa

[outer storm]

Dilo dies instantly to any decently sized herbivore

You need to be very skilled with attacking

[viscid mica]

Like ya there objective skill level to start is abit higher but over all they are pretty easy to pick up

[viscid mica]

Not at all

[elfin night]

Dilo: RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB

Omni: No one who can kill me can catch me and RMB skillful pin

Deino: Careless about stealth because water makes you practically invisible and impossible to hear. You gamble and hope some clueless player gambles outside a safespot to one tap it

Herra (skill floor, not mastered): sit in a tree and aim the little foot icon on someone nearby

[hasty coyote]

Maia def has skill expression (good maias are terrifying), but it also has a solid skill floor since it also has a very simple gameplan other than combat: shift+w. Its attacks are also relatively simple since it’s just alt attacks with a long wind up. Which won’t be a problem next patch because ht Maia’s alts got buffed massively.

[elfin night]

this guy lol

[viscid mica]

This is accurate

[worthy steeple]

not at all

[outer storm]

If you think deino isnt hard you are lost and theres no point debating you

[elfin night]

I mean yeah for plain survival you can survive just fine, but live branch maia combat is brutal

[worthy steeple]

dilo being “hard” is a wild take tbh

[outer storm]

Harder

[elfin night]

Do you actually think deino is mechanically hard? Do you actually find it too hard to press one button?

[steep gazelle]

No. Dilo is extremely easy to play, and him dying easily to 3t herbs doesn't make him any harder.

[glacial apex]

neither is dibble

[outer storm]

Deino is by far the hardest dinosaur to get to adult

Its not even close

[slim dragon]

It's only a matter of luck

[viscid mica]

Dryo, hypsi, Maia and pachy are all objectively harder grows and harder to get good at

[outer storm]

I can count on 1 hand number of times me or my friends successfully grew a deino

[outer storm]

Ok im kind of ignoring irrelevant dinos like dryo and hypsi

[viscid mica]

I mean that’s purely because of the devs wanting to make fish hell on earth to find and give nothing

[steep gazelle]

at night dilo literaly can kill a 3t dibble with 3 bite and spam clone xd

[viscid mica]

Fair tiny tiers get ignored tons 🫠

[outer storm]

Not just fish lol growing deino is a nightmare

[elfin night]

I agree, because of things completely outside of your control

It is all gambling because there is no skill expression if a larger croc wants you dead, you have zero agency over what prey you can eat since they must come to you, you have to be a noob stomper since safe spots completely counter you, there is nothing you can do against cannibal couples especially if you go to a confined space to find food...

It can be hard due to being miserably luck reliant, not necessarily mechanically hard. Deino on a mechanic level is no skill

[viscid mica]

3 bites woh woh woh it’s not 3 it’s like 7-8ish? But ya once t3 it’s all over

[outer storm]

Deino has no mechanical skill but it has INSANE strategic skill

Its all about knowing the map, places to hide, player traffic areas etc

[viscid mica]

I mean not really once your FG beyond fighting other deino it’s super simple gameplay

[steep gazelle]

during the day yes, but at night it is 2-4

[outer storm]

"Once your fg" good luck

[elfin night]

the strategy: praying for bad players to not drink in a safe spot or having a buddy so you can have an even matchup against cannibals and claim the hotspot

[viscid mica]

That’s basic game knowledge that I wouldn’t credit to deino specifically

[viscid mica]

Oh 100% deino is by far the hardest grow

[outer storm]

Deino starves without knowing the map, while most other dinos can just hold q

[viscid mica]

Na it’s more I’m certain of that much

[viscid mica]

I mean that’s a current deino design problem more than anything else

[elfin night]

Deino is the hardest because it is artificially hard. But you are not a good player if you grew a deino

But if you keep something like a pachy alive without constantly idling in an empty area for like 5 hours, then yeah you're pretty damn good strategically and probably on a mechanical level too

[outer storm]

You are a very good player if you can grow deino fully solo

[glacial apex]

tf is this take

growing the deino is part of playing deino

this has to be bait

[outer storm]

Ikr

[viscid mica]

No no he is right deino is only hard by food means objectively deino is super basic and not that hard if it wasn’t for the devs nuking food and creating a painful cycle

Like deinos at the start of evirma where like 20-30 easily FG everywhere because food was plentiful

[outer storm]

Theres more to dino gameplay than just pvp

[elfin night]

I have grown solo deino like three times lately (not more because it is so mind numbing and boring) and I while I thank the compliment, it is not really all that much to hide under a log for 30% of my growth, cooking fish and catching smaller crocs or bad players drinking by south river

[viscid mica]

Yes but that’s basic map and gameplay knowledge not something specifically credited to deino anyone will struggle without knowing that stuff

[outer storm]

then congrats you are a good player because literally anyone will tell you growing a deino is infinitely harder than anything else in the game

[elfin night]

and growing deino isn't really hard on mechanics or strategy, not much harder than it is to grow a stego with that super generous food drain and being a cannibal

[elfin night]

and I agree, but not because of skill. it is luck

[glacial apex]

ah yes cuz sitting with your back to a wall as dibble is so much mechanics

[elfin night]

deino is pure rng and saying it is more skilled than all herbis is pure copium

[outer storm]

Or a river or tree

Dont forget stegos who just right click to end any fight

Not sure why they still exist. Should have been removed years ago

[viscid mica]

Ya tbh deino grow is largely luck cuz a even 2% bigger deino means the end of you

[elfin night]

not really, but this for example is a much higher expression of skill than I've EVER, EVER seen on a deino or 99% of dilo players https://youtu.be/_spmglgQgHk?si=ePcg7XMLc1shW5iG

[glossy elbow]

what?

[viscid mica]

To be fair we can’t say that yet as deino has no water competition yet and dilo is community wide agreed over tuned

[viscid mica]

Stegos where a apex killer with no apex’s to kill

[glacial apex]

... he is quite literally flailing around

[elfin night]

Deino vs Deino is still mind numbingly bad and so are most of its ambushes, and I am also refuting this wild take #balance-feedback-discussion message

[elfin night]

I would love to see you doing that against even 3 omnis

[outer storm]

Fr some reason the devs added stego as one of the first dinos and thats part of why the ecosystem is so fumbled

[elfin night]

since flailing around is so easy, right?

[viscid mica]

I mean I could say the same about herbivores but that comes down to my level of skill not so much the playable

[outer storm]

Average diablo gameplay. Nothing special

[elfin night]

PFFFFFFFTTTTTTTT

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[glacial apex]

ALSO lets not even talk about the ping giving desync advantage

[viscid mica]

I mean it’s why a lot of people complain and they’ve even agreed they added it too early but that will be fixed soon once Rex and trike are done and more and more large/apex’s appear

[outer storm]

Good luck playing dibble against my rex later hahahaha

[elfin night]

yeah dude I sure have seen many dibbles canceling their spar as they run to slide around and parry an omni pounce

so common and easy to do. Deino does so much more

[outer storm]

Yea thats why this update is the mosr "awaited" i think

[hasty coyote]

Omni and troo def have the highest difference based on skill in the game currently, that’s fair.
Deino and Herrera have their own completely unique game plans based on ambush, which makes them hard to compare to most other dinos.
Dilo is def one of the easiest dinos atm. Just bite something 3 times, they turn purple, spam right click until they die. If clones were nerfed then I’d agree it requires decent skill, but dilo is def easier than a comparable herbivore.

Additionally I’d like to raise you pachy and teno. pachy has a simple ability, but has to be VERY accurate with that ability to really be effective. Even then, it’s still in a really bad spot balance wise so you have to play really well to survive. Teno has a lot of attacks but each one has specific uses, and using the wrong one will cause you to lose a lot of your dps or leave you open to counter attacks. Especially since it’s best attacks are rear oriented, it takes a good amount of experience to learn how to aim the attacks and which one to use when.

While carnivore are generally more skill dependent, both have high skill cap dinos and low skill floor dinos.

[viscid mica]

TOO BE FAIR the same thing you said about stego kinda will apply to Rex

Thou it’ll have big things that can actually fight back

[elfin night]

Adult deinos don't just stare at each other alt biting until one goes down. That would be so no skill

[viscid mica]

1-1

[glossy elbow]

stego can't even effect the ecosystem in any meaningful way lmao anything can just w+shift away to completely negate any stego players

[outer storm]

I agree pachy is hard, but teno can pretty easily 1v1 a carno, or outrun and outstam them

[viscid mica]

I mean they kinda do, there isn’t much skill to deino fighting just “make sure your hitting”

Thus the meta of damage mutations

[hasty coyote]

That’s because current carno is not designed to hunt tenos well. That’s like saying stego is easy because cera can’t hunt it lol.

[elfin night]

I was being sarcastic after these people just denied the skill or grasped for any excuse to say that someone playing like that in the vid even sliding around after canceling the spar on the run to parry an omni pounce is not that special

[outer storm]

Then you dont know how the game works. If 20/100 players are playing stego than thats almost 100 tons of meat that isnt "eatable" by anyone

[elfin night]

oh no

the Zenny comparison?

[viscid mica]

I mean you can always credit that to a lack of experince on the playable

[viscid mica]

Not eatable but the unskilled I trio hunt stegos as omni, dilo or cera all the time if your with skilled enough group it’s honestly not that hard

[outer storm]

Carno needs to be buffed anyways

[glossy elbow]

just takes a while yeah

[elfin night]

it is fine in HT

[viscid mica]

I’ve attempted the solo troodon hunt of a stego but they out heal my stam use

[glacial apex]

no one is saying that skill doenst exist, but in comparison to other stuff in the game. its not as hard

[viscid mica]

Oh ya takes ages but it is possible

[outer storm]

Cera? Vs stego? I dont really believe you dude

Maybe if the stego was a baby

[glossy elbow]

with good players its possible

[hasty coyote]

It did get some solid buffs in ht. I’d have to see how it plays out before I’d ask for more buffs, as they just reduced carnos vulnerabilities by a good amount.

[elfin night]

I was originally arguing against the statement that "dilo, omni, deino and herra take more skill than any herbivore in the game". Do you agree with that too?

[viscid mica]

Spacing and stam you have to drain they’re stam they have exactly 10 swings before they can only do long hits and it takes absolute ages cuz of tactile but again is possible

[elfin night]

if the ceras in your team aren't terrible it is doable. But honestly you're better off using omni or dilo

[viscid mica]

Note they are long swings with reduced damage

[viscid mica]

This

[glacial apex]

yea i never agreed with that, but herbis arent the hardest to play the game with

[outer storm]

And what if the stego is not a idiot like most herbi players and actually decides to not spam right click

[viscid mica]

I wouldn’t recommend cera hunting dibbles and personally avoid it more than take it as it’s extremely hard

But omni and dilo are way easier, same with large troodon groups

[eager saddle]

Holy bleep dude, are we still going on this “herbivores are easy” rant?

[viscid mica]

Spacing, if you know the min spacing you need to not get hit you can avoid its tail

[elfin night]

There are outliers as Rapdex said above. These factions aren't a homogenous compound where everything takes the same effort. Sure, eating is easier, but it is far from being the only obstacle

[viscid mica]

Barring really bad desync of course

[outer storm]

No one explained to me why herbivores arent easy so yes

[elfin night]

wow, insane need to poke herbi players 😭 as if players from any faction were inherently amazing on average

[eager saddle]

So why are they easier than carnivores?🤨

[viscid mica]

Objectively easier to survive but combat is a case by case

[elfin night]

I kind of agree with this

[outer storm]

they dont need combat to survive and also win way more often than. You need atleast 3-4 carnivores of any species to kill 1 herbivore, and if the herbivore is grouped as they usually are, then theres no chance

[eager saddle]

Counterpoint: Herra eats fish

[outer storm]

Herbis eat veggies

[eager saddle]

This is situational tho….I don’t need 3-4 dilos to kill a pachy

[hasty coyote]

If you get one cera on either side of the Diablo, they are fairly easy to hunt. If he drifts to the other or hits your teammate, you go in. I had a group that would hunt diablos as a group of ceras, we killed a lot.

[outer storm]

Why yall use pachy lol i admitted pachy was hard

[elfin night]

They don’t have to worry about food but still most (solo) herbis are actually more targeted than carnivores because they’re more uncommon, and also the bias towards hunting herbivores really

And that isn’t a good thing when 70% of players normally are carnis

[outer storm]

But no one plays pachy everyone plays death machine diablo or terminator stego

[glacial apex]

Pachy enjoyers rise up ✊

[eager saddle]

There are none. There are only pachy sufferers🥲

[hasty coyote]

If your issues are with those 2, then your issue is with size and lack of predators, not that they are herbivores.

[eager saddle]

^

[glossy elbow]

we have like what 3 herbivores that don't really have any carnivores in the same weight range in evirma right?

[outer storm]

Add maia to the list too

[outer storm]

Yup

[eager saddle]

Maia is fine tho?

Not overtuned not weak

[outer storm]

Maia is unbalanced cuz no carnivore counterpart

[hasty coyote]

Maia is just naturally a simple playable due to its niche Tbf. But even it has some solid skill expression.

[elfin night]

Pachy is hilarious, it just has crazy high mortality rate and most pachies can’t be bothered to travel down to west rail or sp

[outer storm]

We need allo

[eager saddle]

That’s….not how balancing works

It’s not broken because it doesn’t have an opposite

[glossy elbow]

yup

[outer storm]

It is

[eager saddle]

In that case cera wouldn’t be broken because it has something stronger than it

[outer storm]

The isle is supposed to be an ecosystem

[outer storm]

Cera is slightly overtuned

Thats it

[eager saddle]

SLIGHTLY?!

[viscid mica]

Sorry I meant stego, dibble hunting is a simply 2-1 or skilled enough group I’ve wont a 4 cera v 3 dibble before only losing 2 but killed all 3 dibbles

[elfin night]

Rex works too

[outer storm]

Im my honest opinion cera isnt that strong but whatever

[elfin night]

I am scared of allo

[outer storm]

I have more success with omni than cera

[outer storm]

PLEASE I NEED REX

[eager saddle]

Ignore the fact that cera literally heals infinitely

[outer storm]

REX IS OUR SALVATION

[eager saddle]

Again, that’s cuse of you

[outer storm]

We can finally end the herbis

[eager saddle]

I have also more success on omni

You know why, cuse I barely play cera

[viscid mica]

XD

[outer storm]

Same tbh

[viscid mica]

Too be fair omni has a far higher skill ceiling than cera

[eager saddle]

I’ve also had a pack of 15+ omnis fail to kill a cera because it just camped a wall and every time something died, all the damage was instantly healed up

[viscid mica]

The only thing that might even slightly be higher is teno

[eager saddle]

#gastroneedstogo

[viscid mica]

I’ve nearly wiped a 20+ omni 3 dibble mix pack as solo 60% stego before lol

[elfin night]

as if two random stegos in sp were much of a problem

Like yeah they need predators

But they’re far from being a critical issue unlike ceras

[outer storm]

They are basically tanks

Unkillable but can kill everyone

[viscid mica]

To be fair stegos should be a objectively difficult hunt for FG Rex

[eager saddle]

Bro is like “we gotta balance the ecosystem” also him: WE MUST END THE PART OF THE ECOSYSTEM I DONT LIKE

[viscid mica]

[eager saddle]

the one small anti-tank mine on the ground

[outer storm]

Yes yes yes when rex comes out im gonna megpack with my 10 friends and we are gonna make sure all herbis face retribution

[viscid mica]

How do you plan to feed that many Rex’s lmao

[hasty coyote]

Here’s how I’d rate the playables:

high skill floor and cap:
omni, pachy, teno

High skill floor, low skill cap.
Troodon, Herrera, deino

High skill cap, low skill floor
Maia, carno, Diablo

Low skill cap and floor
Cera, dilo, stego

[elfin night]

And Rex will be good to give them more of an issue besides dibbles and canni stegos

But honestly they will be fine still (hope)

[viscid mica]

I think 3 fgs will already be hell on earth

[outer storm]

Herbi genocide

[eager saddle]

Yeah seems about right

[glossy elbow]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-the-neat-part-you-dont-invincible-gif-27194608

[outer storm]

We can also just eat each other

[viscid mica]

Pretty solid

[elfin night]

I honestly think herra should be the other way around. Roaming herras are the best and most rewarded ones but it takes the brainpower to do that

[eager saddle]

Thinking it’s justified that carnivores are that broken but herbivores aren’t supposed to be is wild ngl

[viscid mica]

Gl finding that many herbis to keep yall fed lmao

[eager saddle]

As if in the wild, the herbivores don’t have a higher winrate than carnivores

[elfin night]

Also hitting something on the move

But the rest look fine I would say

[viscid mica]

Ignoring that most herbis beyond stego and trike will be far faster than Rex’s

[outer storm]

Lots of herbivore sympathizers here

🦖

[viscid mica]

Like maybe half growns can outrun dibbles but not for long

[elfin night]

I actually like omnivores more, but yeah I like herbis and how in the isle they’re competent

[eager saddle]

Doesn’t agree with the take-> must be a sympathizer

Ah yes, we’ve come back to this

[glossy elbow]

yeah what is this logic?

[viscid mica]

I’m a Alberto main I simply must await my calling to be added

[eager saddle]

I think the only herbivore I’ve played last months was galli

[glossy elbow]

i don't get it but to each their own i guess

[outer storm]

Man we just need some mid tier carnivores in general

[eager saddle]

It’s the “I am right so anyone that doesn’t agree must be wrong” mentality

It’s pretty common nowadays.

[outer storm]

Bro is still arguing 💀

[viscid mica]

Ong

[eager saddle]

Yeah but that still wouldn’t do anything for your supposed problem

[viscid mica]

Na he is just trying to rile you up ignore him this is normal BFD activity

[eager saddle]

No, I am discussing and explaining.

[eager saddle]

Pardon?

[viscid mica]

[outer storm]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-utahraptor-yeet-gaming-gif-17276839

[eager saddle]

If I was trying to rile someone up I would be a lot less civil than this

[viscid mica]

Me when I want to play something else

[outer storm]

oh no im so scared

[viscid mica]

Tbh I got a nearly 3 month old deino on na5 that I don’t know what to do with

[eager saddle]

Could always go sp and fight something and never go back to the water

[outer storm]

Same after growing a deino i just get bored

[eager saddle]

Oh no, I wasn’t trying to scare or intimidate

I was just explaining

[elfin night]

not herbivore strictly speaking (It hurts me so much that it is a glorified herbi and I wish it could predate on small playables)

[eager saddle]

Trueeeee

[viscid mica]

Tbh solid F tier playable as of rn imo

Super hard to grow cuz starvation and always losing the 1s to a minorly bigger deino, game play is super repetitive and nothing can really kill you rn

[elfin night]

and then beipi kind of suffers the same

[viscid mica]

I’m pretty sure I got a teir list for playable enjoyability somewhere

[elfin night]

and it has no agency over what it can eat due to safe spots

[outer storm]

Herrera has to be the funnest rn

[viscid mica]

I mean a lot of safe spots aren’t as safe as people thing there isn’t a safe spot that I haven’t found a way to by pass yet

[viscid mica]

It’s pretty high up there fs

[worthy steeple]

the isle

[eager saddle]

I like the ambushing but I wish it wasn’t just deino vs deino 90% of the time.

Gets boring

[viscid mica]

We need more semi aquatics

[hasty coyote]

I mainly put it there because it takes a lot to learn Herrera, like where to camp, how to aim, etc. But once you do, theres not much to improve on. Like a bad Herrera will just fail the ambush and run off, a good Herrera will just kill you, doesn’t matter if that Herrera hit a 360 no scope or if it just waited for you to drink, the result is the same. There is def a difference between a good Herrera and a godly Herrera, but that difference ain’t nearly as much as with other dinos.

[eager saddle]

Fr

[viscid mica]

Ngl bary will breathe new life into deino

[hasty coyote]

Minmi

[viscid mica]

SILENCE YOU DAM CULTIST

[worthy steeple]

i hope bary will be able to do something to the deino and not just run

[eager saddle]

Tho grabbing a jumping teno as deino is still soooo satisfying

[worthy steeple]

👹

[viscid mica]

I mean for a solid 60/70% of deino life they can’t grab bary and I’m certain bary will be able to box them pretty well

[viscid mica]

With deino lung changes coming might be even better

[eager saddle]

Less deino pvp, more ambushing and scaring plz

[viscid mica]

That will take time and more aquatic activities

[hasty coyote]

Give me mud deino as an intended feature and I will be happy

[viscid mica]

!?

[hasty coyote]

Gimme a min to find the official pic they shared, and then the bug I found a while ago.

[viscid mica]

Intriguing

[hasty coyote]

Found the old bug, let’s play spot the croc

[viscid mica]

[hasty coyote]

(This is from my croc’s pov btw)

[viscid mica]

HUH

[viscid mica]

💀

[hasty coyote]

And here was an old image the devs gave us. Mud deino prob wouldn’t be viable, but it would be very funny.

[viscid mica]

Oooo

[elfin night]

mud deino in sp would have been so funny

[glacial apex]

Give me titanaboa and ill be happy

[elfin night]

ew....Titanoboa

[glacial apex]

Hell yea titanoboa

[elfin night]

nah

[glacial apex]

Yah

[elfin night]

carch >>>>

[glacial apex]

Sarcosuchus

[elfin night]

even tarbo is more unique than sarco

[elfin night]

deino but with a fancy jaw

[glacial apex]

And high leg build

[elfin night]

running 2kph faster than deino

although I will give you something

Sarco is still infinitely better as an idea than someone earlier on commenting the possibility of making a giant fish that also hunted on ambushes for things (prolly herra sized at best) who went for a drink

my god

actual worst non serious idea I've heard when it comes to adding playables

[glacial apex]

F it just add dunkleosterus (or however you type its name)

[elfin night]

Dunkleosteus would suck even more 💀

any fish is bad, but saltwater ones would be downright unplayable

[glacial apex]

Yknow i was thinking, why not add horseshoe crabs as AI critters for smaller dinos

It would be even more bait for deinos and such

And more food for smaller dinos

[elfin night]

because we have crabs

[glacial apex]

But why not horseshoe crabs 🧠

https://tenor.com/view/horseshoe-crab-carnie-yay-galia-emerson-horseshoe-crab-hugs-gif-11890144812877105340

[elfin night]

because mid unless it can give you an accumulation of microplastics if you eat many

[glacial apex]

Actually

Give me playable horseshoe crabs

[tropic horizon]

Tripedal tarbo

Tarbo Tripod niche

[elfin night]

boxing Tarbo. Short arm big punch niche

[elder steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/brachydios-monster-hunter-monster-hunter-world-gif-22211298

[elfin night]

Arms too long and useful

[elder steppe]

Lol

[elfin night]

It needs to look stupid

[steep gazelle]

@tight cove Galli should be the best at escaping, there is no need to give him bad acceleration

And honestly, Galli being able to escape so well doesn't affect the others at all.

[tight cove]

My problem is that galli doesn’t have a weakness anymore, it outruns everything and if it doesn’t want to get caught it won’t get caught, if you try to ambush it, it will just out run you lol.

[steep gazelle]

And what's the problem with that? It's not like galli are an extreme danger that has to be eliminated every time you see them.

The only ones who should be able to catch Galli is Omni and Carno and they can

Carno runs at 60km on charge and omni just press a button

[tight cove]

Carno can maybe catch a galli sometimes sure, but an Omni is only catching a galli rn if it’s really lucky and is like right next to it

Other than that impossible

[elfin night]

you see, it has to stop at some point

that is when you can attack and even a sub herra can easily bring it down

and well, ambushing carnos are deadly as galli

[tight cove]

If you manage to find a resting galli and kill it before it gets up almost instantly and runs away that’s just an incredibly lucky situation I guess, especially if your a Herrera since you have to be at the right place at the right time

[steep gazelle]

That's the advantage of Galli, he's completely specialized in this. Are you going to complain about not being able to catch herreras on top of trees and deinos in the water?

[tight cove]

And honestly let’s say the carno manages to ram a galli and knocks it down and it can stop in time and turn around and bite it correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think that a carno can even kill a galli in a full combo

[elfin night]

no, you can jump it while its moving, or when it is eating or drinking. Just use stealth too, try to learn the patterns of the player since people keep repeating the same routes over and over

[elfin night]

it practically will die since it is left in late orange/red and a tap ram will finish the job

or two, who cares

and if it keeps running it will bleed out before you run out of stam

[tight cove]

I’m obviously not trying to say that bro, all I want is an opening to successful hunt a galli besides being a deino, being a Herrera, or being lucky enough to catch a galli resting, every other Dino has opportunities to kill it 💀

[tight cove]

I agree

[keen plover]

Galli has bad acceleration though lol

It just has a really quick trot so that it accelerates to a quick enough speed to avoid most predators near instantly. If you've ever started to run from a stand still or from walking, you'd realise how bad the acceleration is.

What are you expecting to face off against allo 1 v 1 that is smaller than it 😭 @elfin night

[iron tree]

It does

It's squishy

And dies to a papercut

[iron tree]

Erm..allo not being a large omni

If allo can just pin like omni it'll be literally [title card]

[elfin night]

I expect allo to have the upper hand, duh

But not like Omni where any 1v1 if you can be pinned is unwinnable

Because they can just press one button and instantly pin you from 2 meters away or on the tip of your tail and kill you right there with minimal effort even if you are a great player

I don’t want it to be a 100-0 possibility matchup

[keen plover]

damn

well same

[keen plover]

It was also shown pinning a dryo in dondi's stream as well

So it's functionally very similar to omni

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message i dont enjoy it.... but yes only because i wish for it to knock down an omni again

[elfin night]

@hidden tartan based

Screw dilos

In all seriousness that is laughably defeatist

They could just disable it temporarily and rework the damn thing instead

I agree it is unbelievably annoying and unfair right now

[hidden tartan]

I might be bad i think they are super overpowered, i kill a dilo as a carno and get left at yellow hp, then die to his clones because they spawn in even if the dilo is dead

[lapis narwhal]

<@&401466542140817419> How can I fix the location error?

[rapid flume]

I'd try #🔧-evrima-troubleshooting-🔧

[lapis narwhal]

Ty

[elfin night]

They are super overpowered

It’s not just you

When their clones decide to start hitting you, there’s nothing you can do to prevent death as a carno or cera after one or two bites

I’ve actually lost a bunch of gallis and pachies after beating a dilo in a 1v1 because their clones keep working or the venom randomly kills me. It is stupid

They really need to disable dilo rather than being deleted and intensively rework it

[hidden tartan]

Atleast i can run away from the clones as carno

But when they catch up, oh boy

[full shuttle]

i would like plants to give like 2x or 3x more food it sucks even as a dibble or maia i one bite the food i am playing trike rn and it sucks i have to have a whole zone just for me i can even play with friends because we would be fighting over it plzzzzzzz give us more food for plants

[glacial apex]

asking for this while carnis are starving 😭 🙏

[full shuttle]

yea thats sucks too i main carno and i am all ways looking for food we need better ai

trex is not going to be fun to grow

[dusky surge]

good lol

the point of T-Rex is to be exceptionally difficult to grow

[elfin night]

fight over it, it is intended to be that way

something has to encourage or reward some herbi on herbi aggression

[elfin night]

I hope it is difficult rather than unfair or unfun

but like VERY difficult

[dusky surge]

its not going to be unfun by the sheer metric that it has a new niche at every growth stage

if you find a constantly changing animal that's always viable unfun, you're probably just Scrooge lol

[glacial apex]

my only issue with VERY difficult growing dinos is that most times leads to the dino being balanced to be untouchable when FG, i just hope itll be balanced all the way through

[elfin night]

I am hopeful it will be like that

has more chances to be good than deino where you just gamble your entire life

(as a solo player, if you are a goofy goober player you just get a buddy to gank other crocs and be always saved by the power of friendship when outplayed)

(God apexes in groups are so cringe)

[lethal shale]

where am i

[viscid mica]

We don’t respect dryo enough to list it XD

But I’d say low skill start high skill ceiling

[crimson crater]

dryo is pretty easy to use

[lethal shale]

WHY NOT

[viscid mica]

BECAUSE ITS A DRYO

[lethal shale]

not really, its agility takes a bit to master

[lethal shale]

SO WHAT

I KILLED A 400KG CARNO THATS LIKE AN OMNI SOLOING A FG CARNO EXCEPT IT HAS WORSE ABILITIES

[viscid mica]

CAN YOU KILL A FULL CARNO?

[crimson crater]

agility is what makes it easy lol

[lethal shale]

..NO?? BUT I CAN ESCAPE ONE

DRYO KILLING A 400KG CARNO IS EQUIVALENT TO KILLING A FG CARNO AS OMNI

[crimson crater]

well you kinda went out of your way to do something dryo isn’t intended to do, ofc that’s gonna be difficult

that’s like a herrera trying to 1v1 a dilo on ground

[lethal shale]

omni isnt meant to solo ceras yet it still can so

[crimson crater]

damage pounce moment

[viscid mica]

[lethal shale]

skill doesnt mean combat, not necessarily

[viscid mica]

This is debatable

Omni and teno have hands down the highest skill cap

[lethal shale]

for example, ptera can be considered a high skill dino atm bc of how its stamina management works

[lethal shale]

troodon:

troodon undoubtedly needs more skill than omni

you suffer to ping way more than it does, youre 10x as fragile, and theres more

[viscid mica]

Troodon has a high skill of entry but objectively lower skill ceiling

[lethal shale]

how? 😭

[viscid mica]

Not to say it’s skill ceiling isn’t up there

[lethal shale]

i know but i feel like its skill cap is over omni's slightly at least

[viscid mica]

No, omni is larger and easier to hit plus it doesn’t have as easy of a time of damage out put you have to be far more tactful as it’s far easier to get hit.

Like if it wasn’t for stam restraints I could probably solo a stego on troodon simply cu they are so big they can barely see me and it’s easy to go in and out

Omni you can’t do that as you’ll catch a hit

[hasty coyote]

I didnt put a lot of the generally non-combative smalls on there for the same reason: they arent really designed to fight much and generally just run. while you def can fight things as stuff like dryo, its generally just bullying some bad player or another small/juvie thats also not the best at combat.

[lethal shale]

easier to hit, but unlike troodon a tail base hit doesnt cost you your life in most cases.

omni can get hit and still have a chance, or two, or multiple, troodon just gets one go and then thats it, youre gone, game over.

being hard to hit only gets you so far when youre 1 shot, really

[worthy steeple]

it honestly can’t, not realistically

same with the teno i guess, omni can kill it potentially, but the skill difference should be just insane for that

[viscid mica]

Omni objectively is harder to do what a troodon can do 1-1

[lethal shale]

why does skill need to be based on combat tho? i mean cant you say ptera is highly skill based because of its stamina management

[viscid mica]

As troodon I have successfully 1v1 a dibble I can’t do that as omni as it’s far harder to manoeuvre close and around dibble without getting hit

[hasty coyote]

Like they would all just go in the "low skill floor, low skill ceiling" because you're generally just meant to run, so being good and fighting just puts you more at risk generally. If you want me to rate on combat, then high skill floor, high skill ceiling.

[lethal shale]

there is absolutely no way a troodon can solo a dibble

unless it's skill is AWFUL and doesnt know how to use spar mode, because holy hell.

[hasty coyote]

because we were talking about combat in particular there

[lethal shale]

eh fair

[viscid mica]

You’d be suprised how easy it is to manoeuvre around a dibble in spar mode or not as troodon

[worthy steeple]

yeah i agree with that

[lethal shale]

even packs struggle with a single dibble, how would you do it solo?

[worthy steeple]

he didn’t say dibble was fg

[lethal shale]

its literally NOT possible as you'd run out of stamina way before it even reaches half hp

[hasty coyote]

Like if I was ranking just based on survivability rather than combat, that ranking would be VERY different.

[viscid mica]

At least 200 hours of troodon

[viscid mica]

Na it was

[lethal shale]

he didnt not say it was fg

[lethal shale]

do that next then, fr

[worthy steeple]

🫥

[viscid mica]

It took like ages like nearly half an hour of in out in out

lunge to t3 continue to 62% ish maintain distance trot stam back up repeat

[lethal shale]

sorry but AWFUL dibble

if it had any sort of brain in its noggin it wouldve logged or ran away

[worthy steeple]

well i almost killed fg croc as the teno… kicked it like 40 times and it ran to the water… sad times it didnt even bleed out sadly

[viscid mica]

True he shoulda logged (I can basically trot a dibble down wasting stam woulda only hurt him)

[lethal shale]

i did the same!

..but i was a dryo

and it was 400-500kg

[worthy steeple]

wow nice

[lethal shale]

so impressive right right

[viscid mica]

Tbh while yes you can always combat log I think doing so is cringe

[worthy steeple]

yeah, tho i’m still disappointed i really wanted to kill it for the personal achievement

[lethal shale]

he couldve just ran when you ran out of stam

[viscid mica]

I never did cuz I never dropped below 60

[lethal shale]

the fact that you won in a brawl against a fg deino is crazy already

[lethal shale]

thats good stamina management, i dont see it done often

[viscid mica]

I only dropped under 60 in my final attack when I knew he was like super low HP

[worthy steeple]

it bit me just once, but that was actually good since i was low on stam from kicking it

TACTILE ENDURANCE EEEEEEEEE

[viscid mica]

Again like 200 hours of pure troodon grind

It took me a solid 40 ish attempts for 1 successful solo hunt

[lethal shale]

good for you then, did you clip it?

[viscid mica]

So like 50iah hours of troodon grinding

[worthy steeple]

i only ever killed subs and juvies as solo troodon

[viscid mica]

I don’t record when I play unless there is a hacker

Aka I’ve died to a hacker and I’m hunting him as pt

[lethal shale]

shame

[worthy steeple]

i started using f2 ALL THE TIME after i got jumped by spinning baby cera

[viscid mica]

People bouta make me start recording

Ngl thou my solo troodon runs usually get brought to a end by a over zealous dilo or a carno

Or trying my luck at a stego

[hasty coyote]

that wasnt the intent of that list though, I was arguing that herbivores take about as much skill as carnis do in a fight, so I was ranking how I thought they felt in a fight. I do have a separate list for survivability:

[worthy steeple]

i once killed reported cera cheater, it was one the toughest fights in my life, crazy, but then i made fun of them in eu channel heheheeeehehhrhrr

[lethal shale]

i remember when i won against 2 dilos as a troodon in this HT

one was sub, the other fg

i was sure i was gonna die so i just yolo'ed it, next thing i knew the small dilo was dead, and although i gave the big dilo a chance (i just wanted to eat the small one) i 2 called and stuff, and it didnt back down so i got it REALLY low and it ran off, and despite all that i still had like 10% stamina left

peak times..

[slim dragon]

eat grass and die

[viscid mica]

Fair and tbh the OP ones are more so over tuned singular features etc vomit or venom

And honestly Herrera is only op cuz the current roaster is so small

[worthy steeple]

lol NICE

[worthy steeple]

hmm i see why you put herrera there.. i honestly agree with it being somewhat “op” but at least it’s easily avoidable most of the times

[crimson crater]

how is herrera in OP and pt in C lol

[lethal shale]

pachy at F, Ptera at C

[lethal shale]

herrera isnt OP, its just very survivable, which is why its up there

[worthy steeple]

i mean it has its kit, but it’s not easy to fight something as ptera currently

[lethal shale]

its unfinished technically

[worthy steeple]

well yeah since HT changes are coming

[viscid mica]

Btw have you tried killing 1T Maia with its new moveset enhancements on HT

[hasty coyote]

that reminds me of my best fight, I killed 2 speedhacking carnos in u6 as a carno, 1 adult and 1 sub. They jumped my other carno duo and killed him quickly but the adult hacker was weak. He yapped so much in chat about being good and hp and was going to kill me, got my stam up and rammed him once and he died lmao. Then killed the sub after as he tried to kill me.

[crimson crater]

this is in terms of survival capabilities though, that’s just insane

[lethal shale]

when the patch is out, maybe

[worthy steeple]

LMAOOO NICEE AHAHHAAHA hell yeah

[worthy steeple]

hm.. alright that’s fair

[hasty coyote]

most the op ones I'd say are like 115% of the power they should be, not like unbeatable, but def stronger than they prob should be.

[worthy steeple]

i didn’t read the message and i thought its op combat wise

[hasty coyote]

Herrera has to make a mistake to die and can kill a lot of things when played well. Its def not broken op, but very strong.

Ptera is just a bit clunky, you have to play it in an unintuitive way to function well (as you can tell by the constant players complaining about stam). Tho it is def very survivable, hence clunky but functional.

[viscid mica]

The only one I don’t agree with is Herrera simply on the fact that it’s only strong compared to current roaster

Quetz alone will make Herrera far more difficult

[worthy steeple]

quetz will make everyone’s life difficult

[hasty coyote]

A good pachy can still bully most smalls 1v1, it has the tools to survive. The issue is that it has to outplay the opponent, which is why its in D for being underpowered (plus all the bugs making it incredibly clunky)

[viscid mica]

Herrera objectively is situationally strong

[worthy steeple]

can’t drink because there’s deino, can’t stay in the plains because there’s carno, can’t run to the trees because there’s herreras🥵🥵🥵

but i love that

[viscid mica]

Hell Kentro will legit be completely immune to Herreras special

[worthy steeple]

huge roster with every part of the map being somewhat dangerous would be sick

[lethal shale]

pachy dies at sight bro 😭

one omni DESTROYS it if the omni uses damage pounce, a solo troodon annihilates it, carnos.. i dont even wanna talk about carno

[viscid mica]

WHERES MY REDWOOD KING ALBERTO RAAAAA

[hasty coyote]

well its based on the current patch (dilo is assuming hallucinations work), when the roster expands herrera will prob get moved down.

[worthy steeple]

to die to herrera you should make a mistake, it compensates its insane bleed and damage potential

[viscid mica]

WH DONT YOU SPEAK LIKE THAT OMNIS AND DILOS ARE THE 2 THINGS I CAN RELIABLY CLAP AS PACHY

[worthy steeple]

hmmm meow meow

[lethal shale]

do the omnis use POUNCE? also i didnt mention dilos, those are easy

[viscid mica]

Ya dilo venom is just too easy to apply and lasts to long and cera animation lock is op

[hasty coyote]

Again, if the pachy can play really well, it can live and def BULLY an omni or dilo. However, yeah even a mediocre pachy dies.

[viscid mica]

You can’t pounce my face and I 2 tap you with a charge and alt attack

[lethal shale]

it doesnt work like that 💔

[viscid mica]

But it does?

You’re bouta make me start full session recording

[lethal shale]

eh.. i mean not with most pachies

[hasty coyote]

imo the issue is just with how much the clones deal and the fact they are undodgeable. If they didnt deal 85 per clone and could actually be hit first it wouldnt be nearly as bad.

[viscid mica]

[viscid mica]

The damage would be fine if it didn’t last the entirety of night

[worthy steeple]

yeah i agree

[viscid mica]

Ignoring the fact that you can essentially one tap half the roster into tier 3

[lethal shale]

they used to be dodgeable is the thing

[worthy steeple]

my ideal world is dilo clones not doing damage and working as distraction for dilo to bite more, but it will probably never happen

[viscid mica]

You’d have to be the biggest of idiots to actually fall for the Dilo clones

They move nothing like players

[worthy steeple]

well, good luck figuring which is which when they just run around you fake charging and f calling

not to mention when there’s 3-4 dilos, 12 fake clones +4 real dilos will be insane

[viscid mica]

I just can’t see it being that hard

Maybe that’s just me

[worthy steeple]

with the good ai it will be

[hasty coyote]

1v1, sure, but when theres 3-4 dilos and each of them are sending clones, its really hard to tell which of the 6 dilos on your screen are real lol.

[viscid mica]

The clones were only meant to make an embodied version of damage over time

[viscid mica]

Fair

[worthy steeple]

the only reason you can tell it’s a clone is because it’s running in a straight line

[viscid mica]

Ehhhh

[worthy steeple]

with actual good AI it will be very difficult

especially with huge amount of clones

[lethal shale]

what i think based on current HT

not dryo bias i swear 💔

[crimson crater]

there’s more to it, herrera dosen’t have a “get out of jail” free card unlike pt if it finds itself in imminent danger. petra also can navigate and traverse the map completely safely and untouchable with enough stamina to get anywhere, herrera also has to interact with the environment and other players more putting it in overall more risk. Petra is the defenition of easy mode when it comes to survival

[lethal shale]

you lost me at "herrera doesnt have get out of jail free card"

[viscid mica]

PT is pretty easy tbh

[crimson crater]

last time i checked herrera can’t just get away by holding the space bar button in the middle of the plains

[viscid mica]

Once you learn the basics, PT is not that hard

[lethal shale]

but it can use its unreasonably fast speed for an arboreal dinosaur to go to the nearest tree

[hasty coyote]

diablo, stego, maia, dilo, and gali should prob move up one imo.
maybe move hypsi and dryo down too, as you have to be pretty good on jukes and breaking los to get out,

[lethal shale]

yeah but its stamina regen is PAIN

[viscid mica]

I mean it slower than like half the carnivores

[dusky surge]

not really lol

[viscid mica]

Bro Rex will probably be faster on land than Herrera

[lethal shale]

four minutes 😭

[viscid mica]

Fair

[dusky surge]

doesn't really matter if you rarely ever fall below 60%

[viscid mica]

He is right if you go all the way to zero it is pure agony

[dusky surge]

last i played, it was disgustingly easy to maintain stamina for the long run

[lethal shale]

ptera is easyy to survive as, but managing its stamina is painful on its own, thats what it 'suffers' in

it takes effort

[crimson crater]

yea but it can’t just get out of a situation the same way, besides most of its predators are much faster than it so the speed ain’t always gonna save it

[lethal shale]

i agree on gali

the others not much tho, as they usually get targetted and/or die before they reach adulthood

[crimson crater]

glide, gain altitude slowly that’s it

[lethal shale]

the only predators that are faster than it are 2

who's most

[lethal shale]

it still takes effort to make sure is done right, which can be exhausting after a while to constantly have to manage which is why i see it as 'suffering' sort of

[crimson crater]

omni who is 2 kmh faster than it, dilo, carno and galli.

besides you don’t always run into a straight line when escaping stuff its not that straightforward like you think it is, you can pretty easily cut them off as they’re running, after all their routes are very predictable

[lethal shale]

unless its a carno youre facing, even as a new player you're uncatchable by everything else, and finding food + growing is very easy, even has great nv

hypsi maybe i'd put it lower, since its slower than a cera lol, but it grows in like 10 minutes and if it touches a bush it goes invisible

[lethal shale]

galli? a predator? 😭

[crimson crater]

does it matter when it still poses a threat