balance-feedback-discussion

[worthy steeple]

no, it’s a lot faster than cera or teno

[obtuse ocean]

Yea carno was also alot faster then all in legacy, but it was easy to avoid it with terrain

[worthy steeple]

since cera and teno cannot outrun mania, they should be able to fight back effectively

[viscid mica]

The only thing Maia needs to improve survivability as a solo is a reduction on the dam near 3 second cooldowns between attacks

[worthy steeple]

yeah, that’s how maia is rn, it’s fast but avoidable. give it more agility and damage and it will destroy everything

[obtuse ocean]

i still think maia should easy fend off a teno or a cera, they are small. Maia is "big"

[viscid mica]

I can agree with cheesy it don’t need more damage or mobility

[worthy steeple]

cooldowns are super bad when ur using bipedal stance, yeah.

maias hitboxes are also too small on some attacks and too large on others

[viscid mica]

Cooldown reduction would do the trick

[viscid mica]

100%

[obtuse ocean]

Its like walking up to a carno in the open as omni, and say carno is OP

[worthy steeple]

i think that’s the way they want to balance it, bipedal is for running away and quadrupedal is for fighting

[viscid mica]

Not bipedal being used to chase and flutter kick spamming XD

[worthy steeple]

yeah, but bipedal is easily avoidable due to maias awful turn.

[obtuse ocean]

Only thing i saw was a few fight , maia vs some omnis and dilo. And maia looked garbage on dmg

[worthy steeple]

yeah that’s where carno is strong, it’s a lot more powerful in plains

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, and thats fine. Cus you are asking for it, if you just walk out in the open where a carno is.

[worthy steeple]

it’s more of a player issue.

maia does huge damage it’s just not so easy to hit the hits, broken hitboxes are not helping at all ahah. also having 3.8t hp makes playing maia super forgiving, you can take a lot of bites

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, but if its hard to hit with it. And its supose to be good vs small tiers. who are fast and agile. Its bad for maia from the start. And normally they dont come as 1v1 fight

[worthy steeple]

after even more testing i would say that’s what maia needs:

• fix hitboxes

• fix a bug when stances are not switching for some reason

• make it so kick does stun for like 2-3 seconds so if maia does hit something it can stun and do the stomp combo.

• stomp should do a lot more damage. enough to one shot an omni raptor

• i would say its using little too much stamina for some of its attacks

@viscid mica

[viscid mica]

I mean instead of increasing stun time reducing cooldowns would be good but I’ll agree to that for the most part

Getting one tapped as a omni always sucks sense grappling is wonky af

[worthy steeple]

it is yeah

[worthy steeple]

imo cooldowns are alright,

like it’s even too fast in some situations. like you can alt kick and then instantly stomp.

i was trying to bait maia and then headshot it but it just instantly stomped after its alt kick. but i guess its fine

i think cooldowns are fine if every hit is lethal (like for example if they buff the stomp 200 from kick and buffed stomp will kill dilo and omni in one combo)

i would prefer maia being little slow with its attacks but if it hits you it will definitely kill you

[viscid mica]

Try stomping and then alt kicks or vice versa it takes a minute atleast for me it did

Unfortunately I don’t record but I should tbh

[worthy steeple]

hmm i’ll try

[sacred zodiac]

Soooo you're just wrong. Carno cant even fill the niche its in right now. It lacks maneuverability and basically tail hits things to death, if its stamina doesnt run out first. It's hunger drains so fast it cant realistically survive on small prey. Not to mention, that small prey is usually in groups, and a group of carnos cant survive on small prey consistently.

[rain sequoia]

Played as Carno last night. Got stuck on absolutely everything as a baby, couldn't kill anything, got ganked by small preditors too and starved many times due to their being no AI around

[sacred zodiac]

even if you got to adulthood, you wouldn't have done much better

you COULDNT have done much better

the devs simply dont want you to

[rain sequoia]

Biggest I got was about 50% grown, fractured my leg falling down what can only be described as a small step which slowed me down enough to prevent me reaching water in time so I died of thirst

Had a more enjoyable time as a Deinosuchus, and that's aids as it is 😂

[sacred zodiac]

the fall damage also lowered your health so the thirst killed you faster

[rain sequoia]

Yep, was complete BS man, a toddler could have escaped that step unharmed

Another thing I noticed with the Carno, it's stamina recovery is absolutely awful

[sacred zodiac]

oh yeah

once you're low stamina you wont get it back soon at all

feels like starting another grow lmfao

[rain sequoia]

Yeah, you can run forever but your recovery time is 3 working days

[sacred zodiac]

i wish they'd lower the hunger drain so at least I could survive the way they intend to make me survive lmao

eating small prey barely fills me up and then im right back to square one

eating small prey as a starving carno feels like putting band-aids on Julius Caesar after his stabbing

[rain sequoia]

Or just bloody fix the AI spawns... 4 hours last night, we saw maybe 2 Boars. Only started playing this game 2 days ago and I can see there aren't anywhere near enough AI in the game for land carnivores

[sacred zodiac]

or both lmao

[rain sequoia]

Crocs isn't as bad as there are hot spots for fish and you have the element of surprise as well as smaller Crocs if you're desperate. I genuinely had fun as a Croc despite being ganked by 2 other large Crocs and getting killed but I've not enjoyed Carno at all

[sacred zodiac]

the ai exacerbates the problem for sure but the hunger drain is terrible

theres literally no reason to play carno besides being stuck in the past and liking the dino lmfao

[rain sequoia]

Me and my friends thought we'd try it after getting shafted as Crocs after playing as them for 6 hours. After finally meeting each other it was alright for about an hour before the lack of food started kicking in

[sacred zodiac]

its not really a carno problem rn either

i starved as an omni yesterday

granted i forgot my diets and didnt check, nor do i remember

so its probably on me, but other things are starving too

really wish i could eat rotten food rn bc thats basically all i see

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message @unreal bone omni is tanky, has almost as much hp as a pachy, it has one of the best run times and it’s bleed can prevent its opponents from just dipping.
if anything it could use some nerfs

[sacred zodiac]

omni isn't meant to be alone and actually its pretty good rn tbh

[worthy steeple]

skill issue

[sacred zodiac]

ur coping

[worthy steeple]

no, i just know how to play as a carno

[sacred zodiac]

i have a strong feeling you were the "WAAAAH CARNO RAM HITBOX TOO BIG I CANT SURVIVE!!! WAAAH" kind

[worthy steeple]

if you’re having hard time killing things as a carno

that’s clearly on you

[worthy steeple]

because i don’t

[sacred zodiac]

i didnt say i was having a hard time

i said its not viable, because of your lack of maneuverability

sooo im sitting there hitting dilos and omnis in the tail until they actively choose to go headfirst against me

im literally only killing people if they make the dumb choice of going face first into a carno charge lmao

they could run circles around me and i wouldnt land a hit

[worthy steeple]

drift

you’re fastest dino in a game, run and drift

[sacred zodiac]

bruh

im done here, im talking to an actual brick wall

[worthy steeple]

carno can turn almost instantly using its drift, its running speed is almost 60km/h what are you on? just don’t stand still, always move, drift, hold the charge

i’m having easiest time killing omnis and even silly ceras

carno is not bad, you just an actual skill to be effective

it’s not dilo gameplay when you just run and bite

stop saying carno is bad because you don’t have enough skill

it’s not bad, in fact it’s hella strong in right hands

[sacred zodiac]

and then hit a tail lmao

[worthy steeple]

that’s on you, that means you can’t aim

and fun fact: carno was 10 times worse before the rework

[sacred zodiac]

"cant aim"

💀

[crimson crater]

not really. carno lacks maneuverability you can’t turn and aim

[worthy steeple]

don’t just turn, always drift

hold the charge and always drift

[crimson crater]

that slows you down and creates some distance between you and the target

[worthy steeple]

carno has insta acceleration, drift takes like idk 0.1 second to do?

and you’re the fastest dino

[crimson crater]

drift takes nearly a second. when chasing something like an omni they can get a couple of meters ahead of you. it’s mainly it’s damadge which is bad. an omni can tank multiple hits and find a river to jump across

[crimson crater]

agility is crucial when it comes to hunts, speed isn’t everything

[worthy steeple]

i know, but again, even tho carno is not as agile as omni, its speed easily allows it to hunt effectively

i’ll record some of the hunts or norden plays for better argument

[crimson crater]

it can hunt it, but not effectively. it’s damadge is pitiful and it needs multiple seconds of charging to knock one down

[viscid mica]

Na imma keep it a stack he is right always drift as carno if you want to not lose brain cells during fights

[crimson crater]

yea because carno is so bad in every other aspect that the drift is the only decent thing going for it

ngl if you die to a carno it’s a skill issue

[worthy steeple]

tbf carnos “poor” agility is just the way to balance it.

it’s a lot faster but turns slower
omnis is a lot slower but turns faster

if carno was more agile it would be super unfair

[alpine plover]

Not to mention as well when you are charging someone whos darty you sort of have to determine what direction they are going at in order to knock them down, the agility buff definitely helped a bit, but carno is definitely something that takes a bit of skill to use

[distant torrent]

https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/jn6IUabrf7--kMp6S?invite=cr-MSxDSGEsNDMyNTQ2Njcs

after many hours of carno, ive found this is true

https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/jmIAJ4MlyXvKwBAUd?invite=cr-MSxyUm8sNDMyNTQ2Njcs

and this is large prey. small prey like omnis and dilos are far easier when you’re full adult (and not handicapped by slower speed at earlier stages)

there are many bad carno players out there, but man are the skilled ones utterly terrifying lol

(I’m not one because I’m a skill issue and try to attack things head-on )

[worthy steeple]

yeah that’s for sure

[green sluice]

Before people keep supporting this one, note this person does not know these values at all.
#balance-feedback message

[worthy steeple]

how much damage clone does?

pretty sure it’s like 80 or something

[green sluice]

I cannot share values because of nda.

[worthy steeple]

but dilo is in the game, it’s not like we can’t just test it rn

[green sluice]

Still under our nda. Specific values cannot be shared by qa who have access to those exact values, people are however free to test on their and estimate of course.

[worthy steeple]

ahh ok ok

makes sense

[crimson crater]

skill issue that dibbles reaction time was off by a whole second LMAO

[distant torrent]

that’s the majority of most dibbles lol

[north tulip]

Why isnt dilo on omnis diet?

[viscid mica]

@north tulip why do you think Herrera are making holes in stuff to climb it? Have you never gone rock climbing before? Do you know what a goat is and the fact it can climb surfaces up to 89* that’s what Herrera are doing they aren’t poking holes they are gripping they are basically all muscle which is why they weigh a whole lot of nothing so they can climb easy

[sudden reef]

60 ?, 49km lol

[knotty stratus]

Yes 60 when Carno is charging it’s speed is almost 60km/h

[sudden reef]

Well I dont play carno often anymore, so if i had to guess people dont run around using the charge as a means of mobility unless fighting

[hasty coyote]

Charge has as good stamina efficiency as sprinting. Aka, you cover the same distance with the same amount of stam. Charge is super efficient stamina wise now.

[sudden reef]

Very cool

[keen plover]

bro... you're megapacking vs a solo diablo that sucks. Not really a good example on carnos skill / capabilities

[distant torrent]

the second one shows the dibble being duoed for most of the hunt. it’d have died regardless if the others came in

good carnos can duo or trio solo dibbles and maia pairs

iirc, the first one was also mostly duoed or trioed

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message @analog bramble if you got ambushed you should die

[analog bramble]

very true but on the other hand, herra's have unlimited stamina in the trees so they can sit there all day long with no counter

[crimson crater]

so can raptors🤷‍♂️ you can sit in a bush waiting to ambush something all day

[analog bramble]

not really, it's impossible to take down anything unless you have a pack of 6+

we have no buff for ambushing either unlike the herra

[crimson crater]

you can 1 tap a galli and below by pinning

[analog bramble]

yarns!

[crimson crater]

yarns?

[worthy steeple]

yarns.

[eager saddle]

Yarns?!

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message i would downvote this twice if i could, but i can’t do it even once, because dude blocked me

[sacred zodiac]

lmfao bro expects to be able to dodge between the teeth of a predator

you should be avoiding being bitten in the first place. @proper berry

[crimson crater]

-“herra OP”
-”how come?”
-“yarns”
🗣️

[alpine plover]

🗣️

[worthy steeple]

🗣️🔥

[flint locust]

🗣️

[viscid mica]

This chat is wilding out

[distant torrent]

poor maia got neutered and people are still calling it overpowered

[warm willow]

ive not fought one yet they seem STRONG but..there also very slow and cumbersome im told the stump is hard to land..im sure they still need tweaks but i dont think there OP personaly

[hasty coyote]

If you know how to press the A and D keys, Maia is not an issue after the nerfs. It’s damage is pitiful (back kick deals less than teno kick) it’s attacks are slow, their knockdown ranges are pretty small, and it’s turning is abysmal. Only Dino that has an issue with Maia is dilo due to it also having bad agility, but dilo is faster and more agile than Maia so that’s not even a big problem.

Maia’s strength is the fact it can just decide “nah I’m good” and shift+w away from pretty much everything. I have fought people, start losing, then just decide to leave and live. It’s super easy to survive as with its hp and speed, but combat wise it’s definitely lacking.

[warm willow]

kinda feel like thats FINE though the herbivores some of them are overtuned in combat. these are animals whos offensive ability is a threat deterrent...I realize its a game and makeing them weaker then preditors is not fun =p but right now there dominateing 9/10 of my meals as a carnivore are other carnivors not herbivores wich..feels weird XD If Meias turn out to be undertuned though im sure they will buff them in other areas

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message @elfin night how do you know how much time it takes to grow the carno?

[crimson crater]

it’s true, the growth time is 3 hours

[elfin night]

I tested it

takes nearly an hour more than cera

[worthy steeple]

crazy

imo cerato should take more time than carno to grow since it has that many buffs and its pretty good in general

[elfin night]

More or less my point

It’s logical in terms of balance.

Carno has it somewhat harder to find food because of not being able to eat all carcasses and is more specialized in small game, as well as less scent range. So it makes sense that it must be balanced somehow by achieving adulthood in less time

All the more, its current weight makes it very vulnerable to omnis which are meant to be primarily prey

[crimson crater]

more than 3 hours for cera is just crazy. it’s not a mid tier

[worthy steeple]

i didn’t say ceras time needs to be increased, i said carno should take less time to grow than cera

but tbf i would love devs to increase the time for all the species, it was okay when max boost was 100%, but since the cap is 300% i think the time needs to be adjusted

[crimson crater]

getting 300% growth boost is pretty rare unless you’re a herbi

[worthy steeple]

yeah, 300% should be hard to get

[crimson crater]

omnis growth time is already pretty long for example. nearly 2 hours

[crimson crater]

same should apply for herbis

[worthy steeple]

it’s 1h42m, but it’s with 100 boost, you can easily get more if you eat some organs

so it’s usually a lot less

[worthy steeple]

yeah that’s for sure

herbivores are having some easy time surviving, tho getting some diets are pretty difficult since right plants don’t spawn time to time

[cosmic pelican]

lets be honest, growing a dryo or beipi in sub 20 mins is funny af though, even if it means you gotta metagame the heck out of your growth

[crimson crater]

mushrooms:

[worthy steeple]

its only for the juvies💀

[crimson crater]

yes but it will get you to 40% or so

[worthy steeple]

no? what

[cosmic pelican]

still a massive boost that you can linger even into later stages of growth

[worthy steeple]

40% is only for the dryo or something really small

[cosmic pelican]

pachy can stay till its almost 60% grown

[crimson crater]

what potato said

[worthy steeple]

like for the teno is around 16

[worthy steeple]

that’s crazy

why’s it 60 for the pachy💀💀💀

[cosmic pelican]

and if it gets close to 300% boost it never has to eat any more diet till fg and it will still end up with an around 100% boost

[cosmic pelican]

tbf this is the only thing going for it, pachy is just trash all around

at least its easy to grow

[crimson crater]

ai in sanctuaries for carnivores when

[cosmic pelican]

plz

[worthy steeple]

real

[worthy steeple]

real…

[thorn mountain]

@hazy lark they cant actually smell the prints just blood which is not very good for tracking since it gives no sense of direction apart from small drops of blood

[hazy lark]

seems pretty consistent and easy to track just by the blood drops. And besides.. its being used to play huge dmg and HP herbivores to be way too aggressive. They are supposed to have defensive killing power not offensive.. right?

[indigo rain]

Many herbivores are actually quite aggressive by nature in the roster

Theres a reason many carnivores have instant kill mechanics or extreme buffs near bodies. In extended fights the herbivores should either escape or kill the carnivore.

Omni can pounce to pin a teno with low stamina if they are clever and make it burn its stam through its abilities. A pack of 4 could pin one at full hp and stam. But a few bad mistakes can result in an omni also being knocked down and kicked to death. If the teno chases an omni its pretty dumb for doing so tho as not only is it burning stam, its slower than the omni, thus making it easier to pin and kill

As an example of the circumstances that CAN happen

[hazy lark]

yes its quite silly for a "horror game"

nothing scary about dying to an OP slow planter eater.. its just annoying to be honest. All the scary moments come from being eaten, chased, hunted. Hell.. a 45kg ptera is more terrifying when he is succesfully hunting you than any herbi death in the game lol

[hazy lark]

you say that.. but Herbivores will directly engage with them constantly because they have nothing else for fun. Food is free. diet is free...

[hazy lark]

regardless my point is blood drops are for tracking, an offensive mechanic that IMO should be for carnivores and serves herbis no purpose other than to fuel griefing

[indigo rain]

Yes. That is an issue that needs fixing and its a beta game. Herbivore can be quite boring because outside of eat and nest and be eaten theres not much to do. If food was easy to come by for carnivores and AI was plentiful theyd have the exact same problem I bet- they eat, nest, and be eaten. Their gameplay is not that different from herbivores. Merely the source of the food differs (and AI is bugged so rip).

its also more perspective than anything if you end up attacked by a herb and think its not scary. Im sure Therizinosaurus would be quite terrifying to see coming running out of the bushes at you. But some others wouldnt.

Tracking used to be universal and they did remove footsteps from herbs for that reason. Smelling blood is also defensive as knowing a herdmate is bleeding and bringing a carnivore closer to you is important. Not much you can do about that.

Im honestly fairly certain the bulk of the horror side of things will be for the humans due to their limited perspective and vision

[hazy lark]

Its not being used defensively is my point.. so its encouraging herbi favoured gameplay and with so many other mechanics in their favour already I dont think its ridiculous to try to further seperate them into Defensive and Offensive killing power

[indigo rain]

Its kind of hard to gague what you are frustrated with when youve bagged all herbivores in the same generalization. Im assuming you were either an omni or dilo and attacked a diablo or teno and got bleed, then got chased after. Both of those herbivores are very aggressive in their rosters, or would be forced to hunt you down because they would die otherwise (dilos clones)

So, in those cases using blood aggressively isnt much of an issue as you already outspeed them

[hazy lark]

No.. I play all assets. My overall experience is Herbivores of all types try to actively chase down and engage carnivores who are under fed and weakened most of the time and it creates a frustrating gameloop from both sides. Herbivores are bored and acting like carnivores because of it... Tempering that by taking away the ability to hunt down a wounded opponent seems reasonable to me

[indigo rain]

I see it more as an issue of lack of things to engage with than inherently a problem with bleed. Most carnivores can outrun, get on terrain to avoid, or outfight a herbivore in some way or other. Theres also moving foliage in the jungle, so if you were hiding, there is also a very real chance they had the foliage interactions turned on in controls. Even as a carnivore blood is incredibly difficult to spot or use sometimes (1,500 hours, a good 600 of which were omni). Much less so if a palm tree is snapping back and forth like its posessed

[hazy lark]

If its such a nonissue then why does it matter that they have it so much?

[indigo rain]

Because this is a survival game not a pvp game

[hazy lark]

Its listed as an open world multipler PVP game on the steam store where I bought it.. so thats odd

[indigo rain]

I also dont particularly care im just long winded. Youre free to disagree. Hence why I said "I see it as" and not "youre wrong"

[indigo rain]

Look at the game description

[hazy lark]

on that same page...

survival against dinosuars.. in a game with no AI dinosaurs.. all player controlled...

[indigo rain]

The Isle is an open beta with an open-world survival game where players choose from three factions in an attempt to survive a fierce island. Hunt. Prey. Survive.

Yep

[hazy lark]

so i guess it is a pvp game after all

[indigo rain]

Eh. Says survive in two diff areas. :shrug: but thats your perspective

[hazy lark]

also literally lists pvp, but sure m8

[thorn mountain]

pvp plays a part in every multiplayer survival game stupid

along with all the other things like herbis have food and diets why kill? player agency thats it the game allows it otherwise it would be restricting its kinda like do whatever you want type stuff. also how do you die to a SLOW HERBI like what? and getting rid of blood would be stupid since if we are being realistic (game is not but people think it is) herbivores can SEE BLOOD

its not invisible
to them or something

[crimson crater]

realism argument in big 25

[thorn mountain]

lol

6 mins after 12 for me 🙂

[crimson crater]

we almost there

[hazy lark]

so its a pvp game, how is that stupid?

See blood, in a glowing red pool from 50m away. Only activated when pressing Q which is the scent key. I dont think you should be calling anyone stupid lmao

arguing realism in a dinosaur game is crazy since any behaviour like that is just adult pretend time

[thorn mountain]

I argued against realism

I just brang it up due to people saying this game is realistic

[hazy lark]

well i didnt

[thorn mountain]

also pvp aint the whole game its a part of it meant to enhance the game

[hazy lark]

also never said that. The person I was originally replying to tried to say its not a pvp game

[thorn mountain]

okie mishap on my part

[hazy lark]

all good

[rich wadi]

@steep gazelle Maia's damage hasn't been changed

[steep gazelle]

I'm not saying that it was, but that it should be changed

[rich wadi]

You want it to have more damage ?

[steep gazelle]

Yes? weigh almost 4t but its strongest attack is 300, which is 50 more than the tenonto which weighs 1/3

the stomp, which should be its strongest attack and should knock down creatures like ceratos and carnos just like before, only deals 300

high stam consumption in any attack, slow and heavy attacks but with horrible damage

make a dino where your only role in the game is to escape from everything and any other dinosaur xd

[worthy steeple]

first of all that’s a lie, it does 175+175. secondly maia is made for killing small things, it should run from anything cera size or bigger

and don’t compare maia to teno, they’re completely different and not made for playing the same role. every dino is unique.

[steep gazelle]

a dino that weighs 3.8t made to fight against creatures smaller than 1t, what a joke these devs are

[worthy steeple]

you are a joke lmao

[slim dragon]

Not everything has to fight everything

Some animals are brawlers
Some are designed for avoiding combat as much as possible

[worthy steeple]

just imagine if maia was 3.8t. running 46.9 km/h while outdamaging everything, does that sound balanced?

[steep gazelle]

I know, but you being practically useless against something from 1.3 seems like a big joke

[worthy steeple]

because it can run away from it easily, it should not fight it at all

tho i won a fight against a cera after the maia nerf, i still don’t understand why would you ever fight it? i can easily run away from it, you’re almost 7km.h faster

[steep gazelle]

That's exactly why it's a joke, something done just to escape. What's the point? Why would someone use something this bad?

barely see a Maia these days after the end of hordtest

[worthy steeple]

it’s not bad, it’s good if you know how to play. it’s designed to run from the bigger dinos, currently the only thing that can outrun and kill the maia is dilo, everything else is either too slow or just not capable of killing it

tho you can still fight omnis and dilos, it’s literally 2 kicks to kill an omni

[worthy steeple]

i barely see any tenos, doesn’t meant it’s a bad dino

[steep gazelle]

man, a group of carnotaurus kills maia easily and still doesn't let him get away, especially if the maia is solo

[worthy steeple]

to play as a maia and actually win the fights you need to be skilled enough to do so

[worthy steeple]

maia outstams the carno. and maia easily kills the carno, i tested that myself.

most players have no idea how to fight as maia, thats basically the reason they’re all dying

and having 3.8t hp helps it take insane amount of hits before it dies, like carno will most likely run out of stamina before it can actually kill maia

[steep gazelle]

1 maia vs 3 carno? xd

[worthy steeple]

1 v 3 sounds fair to me

maia shouldn’t be invincible

[steep gazelle]

if the carnos have good coordination and for an open place, Maia has little chance

[worthy steeple]

yes? what’s the problem with that

i don’t understand your complains

i’m actually so sick of people pretending maia is bad, it needs some minor fixes but it’s super good and balanced

[west plank]

maia is balanced just need a little kick damage like +25

[worthy steeple]

why 25?

[west plank]

I said something average

[worthy steeple]

yeah you do that all the time

[cosmic pelican]

@azure marsh "raptor does so little damage"
Just to inform you, a full damage pounce from a fg omni does 1000 damage, I play omni a ton myself and its probably the most balanced its been in a while.

[crimson crater]

if anything it could definitely use some nerfs

[worthy steeple]

i think omni is fine, grapple was the only issue for me.

the only thing i don’t like currently is bucking mechanic, it’s literally useless

101% to pin is good

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102619485334143006/1320058359168106526/omni_is_trash_fr_A_Clipchamppel_keszult.mp4?ex=677566a6&is=67741526&hm=f1806b98b74d1936fb9ec73eb703ad4a66191c9fded26ff619a18521918ea864&

1fg, 1sub and a juvi omni casually killing a fg cera under a minute

[shadow vortex]

Yuh, bucking needs to be more intuitive for both sides (and not completely randomized).

[worthy steeple]

the funny thing is it takes same amount of stamina to buck fg omni as it takes to buck fresh spawn troodon

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message can only make things smaller than a dilo vomit in 1 bite

[indigo rain]

Damn i didnt even know omni does 1k 👀 noted....

[inland copper]

@barren timber

[faint timber]

hmmm very nice, very nice, very nice, I hope one day I will find a nice team and enjoy playing utah

[shadow vortex]

#balance-feedback message what is this mind control lol.

Actually, nerf maia and pachy.

[digital ore]

I dont think pachy needs a nerf tbh

[shadow vortex]

-# I suppose that the mentioned guy’s feedback was irony in some way, and so is mine, so-o…

[viscid mica]

@west plank dibble is very well balanced the only reason it feels so strong is because no mid tier carnivore exist yet wait until a mid tiers drop as any changes to try and balance it to the current Dino’s will ruin it in the long game

@exotic viper vomit is based on weight and stomach content smaller than a omni and full is 1 solid charge bite bigger than dilo and full is more. It’s very balanced for what it is as we wait for bigger carnis to appear.

[viscid mica]

@white haven why where you trying to duel 2 adult cera on land? Deinos whole deal is water based ambush predator

[white haven]

was trying to get food, but when i saw one of them being aggro, i decided to go back to the water but the other one came and they killed me

[viscid mica]

How far from water where you?

[white haven]

i was a bit away, i also didnt have any stamina

so i had no choice but to fight back

[viscid mica]

Well there is your first mistake

Far from water with no stamina to retreat back

[crimson crater]

ceras can’t tank headshots from deinos

[viscid mica]

60-70%

Deino

[crimson crater]

still

[white haven]

yes bro ik that, i shouldve had stam but even if i did it wouldnt have been enough

[white haven]

yea i was practically fg, they should not have been able to tank me like that

[viscid mica]

I mean you’d have had the ability to run

[white haven]

they literally tanked me to death lol

[viscid mica]

Hold up 60-70 is not “practically fg”

[white haven]

yes but i was to far away from water to reach it even if i had full stam

[viscid mica]

That’s another hour and a half minimum

Bite force doesn’t start to scale well until like 80 and then you get big jump

[white haven]

dud--

[viscid mica]

60-70 for a deino is not practically fg

[white haven]

its pretty close tho

only like 30% off or so

[viscid mica]

There is a huge weight and power difference between fg and 60-70

[white haven]

ik i wasnt born yesterday

but i was still pretty big and they should not have been able to tank me

[viscid mica]

I mean your on land no stam

Your extremely out of your element and it’s 2 of them

Being able to stand and left click maximizing the speed of they’re bites

You where what 3-4Tons

[white haven]

it doesnt matter, even if i had full stam, i wouldnt have reached the water and my stam would quickly drain out anyways

i was still able to alt bite and stuff

[viscid mica]

2 full grows cera could do it they’d be red health for sure but I see it

[white haven]

yep, much heavier than 2 ceras

[crimson crater]

how does this mean that cerato is OP. a group of anything could’ve killed u

[viscid mica]

Woulda made it a whole lot harder for them plus if your far enough that full stam wouldn’t have gotten you to water you where way to far

[white haven]

well yea ofc but its just i've never seen (until today) 2 ceras, only 2, being able to face tank me

[viscid mica]

It’s 1.3 tons that’s a decent health poor against a deino that hasn’t had its major damage scale yet

[dusky surge]

they absolutely can, unless they're juvi/freh sub

[viscid mica]

80% btw is when your damage ramps up fast

I’d assume your bite force was like 200-300 tops

[white haven]

yes thats what im saying, i was to far away from water, and me having stam probs wouldve been more effective for me but my stam drains quickly when i alt bite as a deino, meaning it would go down insanely quickly

[crimson crater]

yes i thought they were around 7T

[dusky surge]

what

[viscid mica]

????

[crimson crater]

misread that

[viscid mica]

Na but a deino under 80% is at big risk in fights as they don’t get any real biteforce

2 full growns could easily eat the slow bites from a undersized deino caught land deinoing

[crimson crater]

ceras can’t tank multiple hits

[dusky surge]

unless both are headshots, it can

[white haven]

dont ''nah me bro'' 2 ceras shouldnt face tank me to death as like a 60-70% grown deino who bit them btw quite a bit and even alt bit their head. They showed NO signs of stopping

[dusky surge]

but this is assuming 100% adult cerato

[viscid mica]

You do litterally f all damage to anything over 1T

[white haven]

yea if the deino doesnt know how to alt bite yea, but i did and i even hit one GOOD on the head when i was alt biting (+ with other additional bites i did) yet they showed no signs of stopping

[viscid mica]

60-70% in terms of damage is not amazing

[viscid mica]

You realize how slowly deino bites

And the fact you where doing tops 300 damage a bite

They’re DPS was far better

[white haven]

yes i do realize that, however i was biting them quite a bit and even alt biting of their heads pretty good but they showed no signs of stopping which i found a bit odd but idk

[white haven]

way more then the ceras if i recall correctly?

[crimson crater]

a hs and a couple of body shots is enough

[viscid mica]

Uh… no?

Plus they bite 4x as fast

[dusky surge]

i mean, sure, but its not like cera cant easily dodge/bait those attacks

[viscid mica]

Where you targeting one or switching

[crimson crater]

don’t fall for the bait

[white haven]

i was switching, i bit one of them alot and bit the other one on the head (alt bit it) ATLEAST

[dusky surge]

when you're deino, that ain't easy lol. you have zero pressure and huge endlag

[viscid mica]

Shoulda focused one down they woulda died

[crimson crater]

it has long range which means that the ceras would have to come really close to bait out attacks

[white haven]

they were both after me so it was kinda hard to do that

[viscid mica]

Alt bite isn’t that great to be clear it’s meant for directional attacking

[viscid mica]

Mhm

[white haven]

plus they just basically tanked me like bit me and got away a little and kept on doing that

[white haven]

it also does more damage

[viscid mica]

I’m certain 1 was probably very low but they realized you where switching so they just out DPS’d you

[viscid mica]

Not but a significant enough margin to matter in a match of spam

[white haven]

idk man, they were both still after me like crazy. Either they were low or they were health hacking but i doubt that tbh

[viscid mica]

With the added second delay between each bite

[viscid mica]

Probably low and just committed to tanking you cuz they realized you weren’t doing big enough damage to them

[white haven]

dude... i was a big boi, i bit them and even alt bit one of their heads (which shoulda been fatal tbh) and they showed no signs of leaving. Its almost as if I did nothing lol

[viscid mica]

Again 60-70% ain’t that big or strong for a deino

[white haven]

i was a big deino, so i in fact shoulda dealt alot of damage unless deinos got nerfed or smth

[viscid mica]

No you just have low biteforce below 80%

[white haven]

its still WAYY stronger than a cerato, or atleast should be

[viscid mica]

No

[white haven]

yes

[viscid mica]

Cera bite force is 350 as full

You where AT MOST. 300 probably lower

[crimson crater]

they had the group advantage and you were a sub far away from the waters. don’t see how it makes cera op

[white haven]

ceratos in the past used to get like 2-3 shotted or smth like that but not anymore because of their buffs recently

[dusky surge]

nothing has changed about cera's health or deino's damage since cera was released lol

[white haven]

it doesnt, im just saying that i found it odd that i got tanked by 2 ceras as like a 60-70% grown deino

[viscid mica]

They haven’t gotten buffed

Deino bite speed got slower

[white haven]

im talking about recently

[viscid mica]

https://isle.fandom.com/wiki/Deinosuchus

[viscid mica]

They haven’t gotten buffed

[crimson crater]

were they on a corpse

[white haven]

therre's been a change of their charge bite then or smth IDK

[dusky surge]

recently, no changes have been made. There shouldn't be any difference

[white haven]

nah they were away from it

[dusky surge]

this wiki is unreliable af

[viscid mica]

Based on your size your even smaller than I though a FG cera duo easily outputs 3k damage in a short amount of time

[viscid mica]

Yea but it’s accurate on weights and damage so that’s all that matters

[white haven]

well if this is true then im surprised because it hasnt been like this before

[dusky surge]

not even that consistently lol

[viscid mica]

It is for now aight XD

[viscid mica]

Not much has changed beyond deino turn speed and bite speed

[white haven]

ceratos have changed a little to, especially with their puking ability, thats why so many people are playing them recently

iirc

[viscid mica]

Not really more like everything else has and cera has benefited respectively

[white haven]

except for their puking ability, that has changed a little

[viscid mica]

Like omnis getting little random nerfs every other update that has made them a lot worse

[white haven]

its easier to make people puke

[white haven]

mhm

[viscid mica]

I mean the made bile system properly so it makes sense now

[keen plover]

?

[viscid mica]

Read over last couple patches very minor but between that and the desync causing pouncing to be hell they went from something to be feared to meh

[keen plover]

Not really that surprising. It was a bit too strong previously with grapple. Only buff that I think is fine for omni is a bite speed one. Bugs do suck though

[viscid mica]

Honestly if they fix the desync issue where you warp through your target and pin your friend omni would be 100x better

Cuz then you could actually group pounce consistently and mess up big Dino’s

[keen plover]

That is a good point. It used to be like that in update 4.5 I believe and 5?

It felt fine imo. Now it's just constant dying

I only play omni solo because of it

[viscid mica]

Ya something like that due to some changes along the way something g caused for these weird jumping and warping when pouncing for troodon and omni and has knee-capped its strength to a point of only really being able to do it solo without the threat of warp 1 hitting you

[keen plover]

yeah

I also think jungles being as big as a counter to omni's is a bad thing but I also understand that you can't really punish omni either with current buck and how safe pounce is

[sudden reef]

itd be find if trees and rocks actually actually knocked them down

[sudden reef]

as a result id buff the bleed per tick from omnis pounce and probably nerf their stamina use per tick when latched onto a target so they can stay on longer

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message
pachy is garbage but oh my god do not revert it to pre U6.5

speed and turning buffs are so good tho

[sudden reef]

i say revert it, as that acts as a baseline for pachy, they can then see how it plays and then tweak it accordingly

[dusky surge]

imma be completely real, they should absolutely not do that

a reverted pachy would be absolutely insufferable. It was nerfed for very good reason

Exceptionally overnerfed, mind you, but absolutely justified in it being nerfed

It cannot ever go back to that state

It would be a disaster for the entire ecosystem

[sudden reef]

it was not that bad lol

[dusky surge]

if we're talking about U6 pachy, it absolutely was

it basically made tenonto impossible to play

[sudden reef]

u4 was worse

[dusky surge]

hard disagree

U6 pachy was the highlight of how powerful and dominant the animal was really

when it could stand against the powerhouse that was U6 carno, an absolutely busted monster of an animal, that was signs of how brutal it was

honestly, pachy getting generally more speed and agility is a far better balance change for it

cerato would be turned to fodder by a reverted pachy

not to mention the new carno

[hasty coyote]

@sudden reef a few errors and comments about your feedback:

1: pachy’s running stam is actually incredible, iirc it has the longest or one of the longest running stams of almost 4 minutes (I want to say it’s around 3:40). tho I agree it doesn’t matter when it’s still slower and weaker than many of it’s predators.

2: pachy has actually only been buffed since the stun removal. Body fracture stam consumption was increased, its bleed res was buffed, and its juvie speed was increased massively. The issue is that it received like 20 nerfs before the stun removal and relied (and still relies) on the stuns, and now has been left behind while the rest of the roster power crept it out of existence and bugs slowly piled up.

3: technically an extension of 2, reverting pachy is a horrible idea because of the above and also the fact that it’s constant stuns were completely op. Pachy was able to cripple and stunlock its opponents so they literally had 0 counterplay the moment pachy landed a single hit.

Imo the best option is to first rework fractures, as they are incredibly op and would make any future Dino with fracture end up in pachy’s position. Also buff ram so that it isn’t the absolute worst attack in the game to use. Fix the 100s of bugs around it, remove the endlag after landing a hit, etc. Then see what buffs pachy needs to fulfill its role and not be oppressive or weak.

[faint timber]

accept the old pachy was unstoppable and they were very strong I had this problem but it was better than the old stun I would like stun back

[faint timber]

We can do it like this

[exotic viper]

Okay, let's go with your logic then, without even discussing that instant vomit after one bite is just ridiculous logic wise, how is it balanced according to you? Did cera ever need more advantage against something the size of a raptor??

[viscid mica]

No, in that same regard omni is significantly faster and more agile if your putting yourself in a position where they are getting that charge bite off that’s on you

[exotic viper]

Raptor always used to die after one charged bite or left severely wounded after one regular. Why does it need to be also stunlocked by instant magic vomit?

I'm suspecting a cera main here heheh

[viscid mica]

Not a chance cera is boring

[viscid mica]

Vomit ain’t stun locking you and again raptor is a whole 8?9? Km faster and can turn on a dime and has better stam

Again skill issue I’ve killed many cera as a raptor it’s not that complicated just run away when it’s charge biting

In fact with current roaster I’d call myself a omni main until my baby Alberto drops

Consider long term cera will be nothing in the grand scheme

It’s a honey badger of a Dino

[exotic viper]

I know that, you keep repeating Omni stats to ne as I wouldn't know, but why cera ever needed another advantage against it? It used to need a whole pack of six omnichikens before and half of them would be dead.

[cosmic pelican]

6 omnis needed for 1 cera? LOL

[viscid mica]

Not saying it specifically does but the fact is that the design is meant for it to work with bigguns and unfortunately for that to work the smols gotta play more cautiously if they wanna fight it. Because mind again fighting it is a choice! Your faster better stam you don’t HAVE to fight it

[exotic viper]

I'm yet to hear a single solid argument. What about, say dibble. Why does cera need to bite it twice to magically empty it's entire stomach instantly?

[viscid mica]

2v1 ez fr

[viscid mica]

TWICE?

EXCYSE YOU?

Na na fact check yourself

[exotic viper]

Calm down Rambo:))

[viscid mica]

Mfer said twice, share your drug

[cosmic pelican]

Needs 3 full charged bites on full bile if the dibbles stomach isnt like half empty

[viscid mica]

I want some of that

[cosmic pelican]

Used to be 2 bites though before the nerf

[viscid mica]

That nerf is ancient

It’s been well over 2 bites for awhile now

[cosmic pelican]

You dont even need fgs lmao
Ive done it with 1fg and 2 subs

[viscid mica]

I’d say if it’s full took my group like 5/6 or so

[viscid mica]

Fr if it’s solo completely winnable

[cosmic pelican]

Depends how much bile the ceras have

[viscid mica]

That too

[cosmic pelican]

More bile you have in store = more bile you apply

[jade prairie]

idk i think cera is kinda weak against dibble.... i killed 3 ceras as a solo newbie so 🤷

[cosmic pelican]

Bad ceras then

[viscid mica]

Dibble very stronk it’s a super tanky mid tier vs a larger low/small tier

[viscid mica]

I mean do you really think most cera mains are smart or skilled?

Half them mix pack with dibbles or stegos

[cosmic pelican]

Fair enough LOL

[viscid mica]

Allo finna drop and the whole game finna lose its mind fr

[cosmic pelican]

Allo HT is gonna be cancer I know it😔

[viscid mica]

People already freaking out over a slightly larger small tier smh

[viscid mica]

I dunno carni HT haven’t been super broken like herbis

For some reason herbis always drop insanely strong

Pachy, dibble, Maia

Lord help me perma stun pachy

[sudden reef]

I think desync and connection probably play a big part in its inconsistencies here and there with the ram, I think pachys overall stats do not represent the playstyle that theyre looking for, apart from that good points,

Overall I dont think fractures or the stun from pachy is OP simply because their easy to dodge and bait

so for me atleast, even in pachys prime, it was easy to dodge them as carno as its predictable to when a player is going to try and ram you

On paper, yeah pachy was OP, but once you knew how to fight them they were easy to counter, so therefore i never really had a problem with them

Doesnt matter how powerful they are if they cant hit you

[viscid mica]

@sudden reef on your pachy suggestion you got the heart but are looking in the wrong places

#balance-feedback message

I think the way you worded it sounded like you want pachy out running omni which it just shouldn’t do

[sudden reef]

no no, of course not lol

that would be stupid

[viscid mica]

Ya that’s just the vibe “major speed buff” gives off

[sudden reef]

obviously it shouldnt be that fast, but some sort of buff, mostly in speed as it supports the imposed playstyle should be buffed to increase its survivability

Because when pachy could actually defend itself consistently its speed wasnt an issue as a result

[tribal jay]

@leaden shoal that is just a skill issue, if it would drain more slowely it would be almost impossible to get a good diet, even if you eat gastrolights

[leaden shoal]

Not if nutrient drain would in turn also be made slower I think

[tribal jay]

then you have a valid point, but if you just go to a hotspot you will have enough food

[hasty coyote]

The issue is not the fact that pachy is easy to dodge before the attack, the issue is it’s so one sided the moment pachy does land a hit (namely against stuff like carno and cera), with constant stuns it’s just unwinnable. Head fracture halfs your damage and severely limits vision, essentially forcing you to back off immediately. Body fracture 3x stam drain, so you have to escape fast or kill the pachy fast, lest you get left with no stam. Lastly leg fracture is just death.

With stuns on every hit, each of these essentially become a death sentence unless you are immediately able to kill the pachy because it plays poorly. A good pachy can easily 1v1 anything under 2 tons with stuns, I know because I was doing it. Let alone a gang of pachies, nothing in stun range can survive a fight. That’s not how pachy should work, let alone anything, that just makes the fight abysmally one sided.

Also with fractures being the way they are, you have to compromise so much of the dino’s power budget for them. Say we gave cera bite low fracture damage instead of bile, and now a few lucky hits on a teno and it suddenly loses its entire way to fight back because of leg fracture. Or it gets a few headshots and now teno loses HALF of its damage and just dies. Fractures only don’t seem op because pachy is so weak to compensate, the moment any other dino is given the ability to fracture, it’s going to be WAY too strong.

I am 100% down for the compromise of stuns on fractures, so it really helps the “break and run” but helps prevent the “break and beat to death” against things pachy has no reason to be able to kill.

[leaden shoal]

I agree, but I don´t think having everyone at a hotspot is the best either tbh, then the map isn´t really utilized

[tribal jay]

that is true but me personally i just head to southplains get food then grow play it safe and then go around the map maybe to highlands or somewhere else

[sudden reef]

ngl I skimmed through that, but overall id be happy with no or little stun, but near guaranteed fractures (if hit directly in their corresponding location i.e. the leg)

[tribal jay]

its just the that you will get food but as a juvi u need to go to highlands or south plains that is a fact rn

[leaden shoal]

I think it´s also a big issue of missing AI, so if those were more plentiful maybe the food drain would be fine.

[tribal jay]

yeah

[sudden reef]

or revert back its first iteration where they have to be hit a number of times, depending on the size of the animal

[hasty coyote]

Essentially, my points booked down to fractures only being weak because they are on pachy, and constant stuns + fractures make the fights abysmally 1-sided.

I do def agree that we need better hit registration so we can actually hit when we hit and get the correct fracture (pls no more leg fracture from a headshot and no more head fracture from the tail)

[sudden reef]

I agree its 1 sided, IF their opponent gets hit

[hasty coyote]

That’s how it fractures just work, each dino has a “fracture health” on their limbs, so depending on the Dino it may take a few hits to fracture.

[sudden reef]

im aware on thats how it is currently but it takes way to many hits to make a difference, this would be find if the pachy was in a group of 5 but lets be real that doesnt happen often

[hasty coyote]

I feel like balancing things on “if” they get hit against something both smaller and faster is a poor way of doing it. Namely, cera just gets beat to death if we gave it back stuns. Balancing around the “if” for stuff like Omni and dilo, sure. Maybe even put carno in a bit so good spot if it gets hit, but it shouldn’t just get mauled the moment it makes a single misplay.

[sudden reef]

so add a weight limit to the stuns

[hasty coyote]

Depends on the dino. Cera only takes like 2 hits for each except for leg which takes one. Teno takes 2 except for head, tho stuff like Diablo are gonna be very hard to fracture, and probably should be because of the size difference.

[sudden reef]

Lets say pachy does can not stun a cera but has a, lets go crazy for a min and say a 90% chance to land a leg fract on the leg, if the ram is fully charged, this means that the pachy has a good chance to disable their attacker, whilst the cera cant get repeatedly hit for free over and over

the only problem here would be the head fract chance but overall the pachy would not be able to trade hits with the cera

[hasty coyote]

The issue is, that weight limit needed would make it change nothing. Aka, if cera can’t get stunned, then carno can’t either, so basically none of its matchups change. I’m more in favore of being fractures causing a stun. Giving Pachies 3 stuns on larger targets, and a freebie to escape if they are trying to just break and run. The fractures themselves, numbers advantage, and hopefully pachy buffs should be enough to still allow a gang to absolutely bully to death something larger that but off more than it can chew.

[hasty coyote]

What do you mean by chance? Those are also hitboxes (just that lag and bugs make you essentially have to pray to RNGesus that it works correctly)

[sudden reef]

the %

if hit in the corresponding/correct area

[hasty coyote]

Yeah I get that, but like, it should just be 100% if the pachy knows where to hit, the hitboxes are functioning properly, and the pachy actually lands the hit.

But yeah if a pachy hits the cera’s leg, it should leg fracture it and allow the pachy to get away, or call friends to destroy it.

[sudden reef]

indeed so i agree

[hasty coyote]

I just also believe that pachy’s power budget should be shifted away from fractures and more towards its actual stats, rather than giving it more stuns. Like make leg fracture no longer disable alt attacks, but make Pachies have a bit more hp, better damage, and better recovery after a ram. So the target still has a chance to fight back, but the pachy has better tools to kill.

[sudden reef]

I think overall pachy wont change much, for the soul reason that the devs want it to be a hit and run playable, but in its current iteration is struggles with both

[hasty coyote]

Personally, I think it can work as both “hit and run” and “beat to death with a lead pipe” playstyles if it’s given the right changes. If it has the advantage, pachies will beat things to death. If they have the disadvantage and the tools to do so, they will break and run. The difficulty is just making sure they have the advantage or disadvantage in the right fights. Previously it had the advantage in fights it probably shouldn’t have and was beating carnos and tenos to death with way too much ease. Now it’s in the disadvantage in fights it should be able to win yet lacks the tools to break and run, like dilos being able to envenomate and kill a pachy with a single bite.

[eager saddle]

Wouldn’t really call it a skill issue when you spawn in dead zones and hunt yet.

[crimson crater]

we just need ai in sanctuaries for carnivores

[viscid mica]

@fresh sand do you think tactile endurance is balanced?

[fresh sand]

Not sure, not really used it enough.

[warm flax]

depend on which species
works great for stego cause you can tank a couple shot and use the stam you got to do another charge attack or catch the attacker out of surprise

[viscid mica]

lets put it this why it makes gastro look like nothing

[viscid mica]

stego has no right ahving tactile fr

[warm flax]

well I don't see the benefit for small tier playable getting this mutation cause cera can basically 1-2 tap you and the fight ended soo quickly

[urban delta]

how does this make sence? i was on him for like 10 seconds before the clip even started?? https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/jpjenZLkDC89vkPej?invite=cr-MSxJaW0sMjc3MDQ1ODM4LA

[worthy steeple]

i’m sorry your one click = win strat didn’t work this time

[urban delta]

but i was on top of him for 30 seconds biting him?

like i understand that its just clicking but.. how did that not kill him?

[knotty stratus]

utah bad fr

[urban delta]

Talking about me or the raptor

[knotty stratus]

raptor

even you killed the dilo u still would be dead

[cosmic pelican]

You werent holding LMB to damage pounce, a no input pounce is only 300dmg

[warm flax]

you should press right click after you land the pounce, it will do bleed damage instead
and once you got nice stack on him you can start running away from it

[elfin night]

You were likely only dealing bleed

Which even then by spending that time there and simply running away you would have won effortlessly with how busted that ability is

[crimson crater]

@haughty grotto what do you disagree with

[shadow vortex]

@crimson crater based on the general context of your feedback, I think you meant "raise the threshold"... xd Lowering it means reducing the Omni's weight that is needed to pin something.

[crimson crater]

yes

[shadow vortex]

So you want the weight to be heavier to be able to pin something? Not 100% and under as it is now?

Ah, nvm. You corrected the typo!

[crimson crater]

uh yea, omni should at least be 25% heavier than what its pinning

[haughty grotto]

The fact that herra one tapping anything even 4x its size isn't a problem but an omni doing it is one?

There are moments in every dinos kit which allow it to overcome others, situationally
Not necessarily every matchup has a counter or has both dinos at an equal level

If a raptor catches a herra on the ground, the herra should almost always lose
If a dilo catches a raptor at night, the raptor should almost always lose, and so forth

Raptor has had almost every strength taken away from it
Pin shouldn't be touched imo

[neon willow]

I agree, except for one scenario- Omni x Omni combat stinks. Yeah, this is true of all same-species matchups as well to some extent, but the fact that a full grown Omni can one-tap another full grown omni with zero effort or counterplay (and no options to avoid by running away) just feels... Kinda gross. Most creatures that can be pinned by Omni have the ability to play smart and avoid combat, as they are faster or more agile. Herrera can choose to avoid omni by climbing a tree. In both cases, not avoiding combat is punished heavily by a pin. Omni vs Omni doesn't really have the ability to avoid combat in the same way

[crimson crater]

herrera requires a ton of setup for it and i’d be fine with omni being able to kill stuff with pin if it was actually used for ambushes only which it isn’t

pin is just a win button for it

[elfin night]

I agree

I cannot stress enough how dumb and cheap it feels

why cannot omni pounce have something like a timer or a damage cap

so for example you can only do up to a certain (very high) amount of damage or bleed from a prey (possibly percentage based) before forcing you to jump off and needing you to pounce again?

it is absurd that by being a bit smaller you plainly cannot fight Omni because it can point black rmb and you die with no options to escape

[haughty grotto]

Because this would be even more absurd
What cap would you want it to be?
65 damage per second/bite means that it takes only 3 seconds to kill a herra
You want a pin to end before 3 seconds?

[haughty grotto]

Yes omni vs omni does stink but so does any species vs another of its kind, like cera vs cera or carno vs carno
It's completely uncounterable and inescapable unless you have speed mutations and the other doesn't, or the other started the fight with lower stamina

[crimson crater]

its not the same lmao. at least you have the option to fight back as a carno or cera, with omni you simply can’t there’s no counterplay to its mechanic.

land deino basically

[charred spade]

@regal ruin Beipi should be the biggest bleeder in the game, being a threat even to Deinos, but unfortunately he is a weak duck

[slim dragon]

For beipi's bleed to be a threat to deinos, that would require it doing insane amounts of it

Like the equivalent of 3 full raptor pounces per attack

[coarse blaze]

Beipi can be a baby deino's worst nightmare and then be nothing to an adult, I think that's a fine trade.

[regal ruin]

It shouldn't be enough to really count as a "threat" with just one little ducky, but enough bleed to make them think twice before attempting to catch it. They one-shot Beipi anyways so it wouldn't even be broken in that regard

[slim dragon]

Ok but beipi won't only ever have to fight deino, you need to consider other playables too

[dusky surge]

Imagine a poor omni accidentally entering the line of sight of a deino killer beipi LMAO

[slim dragon]

With a claw attack that can threaten a FG deino, beipi would absolutely destroy stegos

[regal ruin]

About time those spiky tailed nitwits respect the true emperor of the isle

[dusky surge]

i feel like you fail to grasp just how bad this would be for literally everything, not just stego lol

[regal ruin]

I'm just joking around, I know full well that something like that would break everything

[dusky surge]

unfortunately, deino has a 50% bleed res on top of he highest blood pool in the game

it literally does not bleed

in order to bleed it out, you'd need to have something do a LOT of bleed

[regal ruin]

It should be at least enough damage output to somewhat have a chance against less durable carnivores like Herrera, Dilo or Omni in my opinion

[dusky surge]

it def does atm. its bleed got a huge buff

[regal ruin]

Hmm

Maybe I'll have to see for myself later

[elfin night]

maybe something like 80% health in one singular pounce?

[cosmic pelican]

A fg omni not being able to kill a troodon with pin would be crazy

[elfin night]

would it be really that bad that the grab ability with no setup, which BY THE WAY belongs to one of the most agile and stealthy creatures in the game at the moment, isn't just an instant kill to anything like an herra or dryo

[slim dragon]

Rather than nerfing pin damage, maybe it should be harder to land a pin on smaller animals
Or more punishing to miss

[elfin night]

Obv that should work still. I mean more damage besides the tap so the tap still does that damage

[elfin night]

this could work too

[cosmic pelican]

What if you could only pin things once the pounce animation finishes and youre off the ground, so you cant pin stuff that is right next to you

And instead actually need to aim

[elfin night]

you flat out cannot interact with omnis other than running away if you are smaller than them, let alone in a game where lag also exists

If you and a pack had a skill issue bringing down a dibble it is not the game's fault. Omni pounce on "small" prey is the most one sided mechanic in the game by a long shot

[elfin night]

maybe

[elfin night]

juvie omnis should NOT be able to just go and kill a fg herra with a single rmb

[mint star]

funny enough, a herrera dropkicking me as a deino a few times resulted in my bleed dropping to about 50 or 60% lmao

[regal ruin]

Doesn't Herrera have venom?

[cosmic pelican]

Only troodon and dilo have

[regal ruin]

Right my bad I mixed up Herrera and Troodon

[elfin night]

@atomic lily combat complexity my guy, makes you actively avoid certain strategies while allowing for counterplay

Dibble? Just don’t facetank it unless you’re a fg rex (although you would probably be so tall that you can bite the tail if you were face to face )

Teno? Watch out the back

Now you know, and knowing is half of the battle

[crimson crater]

yea troodon is pretty forgettable😂

[elfin night]

Without posting anything, I would like to comment (balance related) that I really dislike the current state of carno simply because it is not like legacy

Imo they should nerf that drift or something to raise the skill floor

Or the charge spam to make it skillful again

[regal ruin]

I get what you mean, but as a relatively new player I think it's important to have a few low skill floor carnivores

The herbivore playstyle doesn't entice a lot of players, and if all the carnivores in this game require a lot of skill and practice to get good at, it might drive people away from the game

[elfin night]

not all of them have to abide by the same rules

it's fine for certain playables to be harder to use efficiently

it enriches the gameplay

[coarse blaze]

Herrera, Omni and Cera are all pretty low skill floor carnivores

[obtuse ocean]

Who are not low skill floor ?

[coarse blaze]

Troodon maybe, just because you need to coordinate a group and can't spam to work well. Plus you'll die if you get hit by basically anything.

I don't think any of the carnivore roster takes a lot of skill to work. An experienced one will for sure be better but any player could grasp the vast majority and do fine.

[obtuse ocean]

Yea thats fine, i still think the overall dmg is crap. I dont even fear facetanking a dibble, il just ok f up.

[coarse blaze]

DMG on what?

[obtuse ocean]

I can facetank it as dilo, and dont even care.

How many hits do carno need now to kill a omni or dilo ?

[coarse blaze]

A decent Diablo shouldn't need to worry about a dilo just trying to facetank it.

Not many, you just charge spam either of those a few times with Carno and it'll die.

Carno is painfully easy, just a bit of a long grow and an aggressive food drain.

[obtuse ocean]

Yea i get it im not talking about the dibble. Its the fact i can screw up so bad that i facetank a dibble, and just walk away

[obtuse ocean]

I mean carno should be easy, depends on the situation. If its in the open, a omni should either be dead or if its lucky it manage to get into a dense area

[regal ruin]

Either I've had a string of just horrendous luck then or have gone up against actual pros because anytime I tried Omni I just got steamrolled

Even a damn boar one-shot me

[crimson crater]

how?

troodon is not low skill ceiling either

[cosmic pelican]

I almost said something 😭

[elfin night]

My problem with it 😭

I would even say it is one of the easier carnivores at the moment

It’s just letting the drift do all the turning for you and spam the charge

[elfin night]

Why should it be easy? There’s not really a logical correlation there. Like deino isn’t easy/hard if a prey casually strolls into a pond and starts drinking. That’s just an opportunity in the right environment

[crimson crater]

this has to be ragebait

[obtuse ocean]

Why shouldt it be easy? In the right circumenstances? You already put yourself in a situation where a carno could kill you with ease.

[coarse blaze]

I specifically stated that I feel that Troodon isn't "low floor"

I consider Cera, Omni and Herrera all "low floor" because a new player can easily use them and do alright. Omni can pin anything small and instantly kill it, Cera is generous in it's food drain and heavily overturned and eats rot/bones. Herrera is just jump and kill, find a spot and sit. Not exactly thinkers.

[elfin night]

Nah, it’s just that after 700 hours of carno in legacy, I grew fond of the idea of making the hyper specialized carnivore take some skill to use and not just button mashing

[crimson crater]

1 dimensional thinking, omni and herra isn’t low skill

[coarse blaze]

Agree to disagree, I think they're both incredibly easy playables.

[crimson crater]

depends, not everyone is gonna stand still and let a herrera jump it, nor can you survive on juvis alone as an omni

[obtuse ocean]

Yea but understanding your surroundings, is a skill. Im dumb and dont look much up in threes. But it is my mistake : P

[elfin night]

But we are talking here about the mechanical skill required to pull that off as well. All creatures can have favorable matchups but they have different kits that require more or less skill to use

[obtuse ocean]

Yea they do, but avoiding and understanding pros/cons of what you are playing is a huge part of the game. If you get ambushed by a rex, you will prob die. With zero counterplay

[elfin night]

It could be prevented and there was skill with the rex managing to sneak up on you

I don’t deny some scenarios will make things easier or harder

But I think that at the very least there should be a handful of playables (especially in the carnivore roster since herbis atm don’t suffer from this) that challenge the player’s intellect to some extent to use properly

[obtuse ocean]

Yea agree, but carno should defintly have no much problem killing a omni in the open. You run or die situtation, just like legacy carno sorta

[elfin night]

And tbh I am biased when being mad that carno isn’t one of those playables anymore

[obtuse ocean]

Yea legacy carno was perfect, miss it

[elfin night]

So far the only carnivore that I find truly skillful while more or less balanced is troodon

Ptera is hard to use as well but that’s mostly because it is laughably weak atm

[obtuse ocean]

Yea i tried it, im not very good at mechanical stuff. So didnt go well, but its an amazing thing if your good at it

But we will see more of those "low skill" stuff come, some are easy to survive with but hard to fight with. And vice verca etc

[elfin night]

And then Omni is funny, because for big game I would agree it takes some effort to play as

But against smaller things it is baffling how one sided and easy it is to use

And it can survive pretty well on its own

And yeah herra is just being able to sit and wait near a good spot

[elfin night]

I hope Magy is one of those. High skill Magy would be

[obtuse ocean]

lol yea, but magy that thing is small right ? Im not familiar with it

[elfin night]

A tiny bit smaller than cera

Yeah, small sauropod. Eager to see how it goes but it seems we’re getting kentro first (still looking forward to it)

[obtuse ocean]

Aww kentro im looking forward to

[elfin night]

Rex might be skilled in the near future

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-evrima-t-rex-rex-diabloceratops-gif-13308571214103444922

[obtuse ocean]

I love that, hard part is getting close.

And prob food lol

[elfin night]

Legacy rex was one of the better playables in terms of design. Seeing what they’re going for, it will likely remain the same.

Food drain and stealth as an apex is already a good basis for a decent skill floor

And way more proactive than deino, too, which would make the gameplay more engaging

[obtuse ocean]

Yea agree, and i also hope they feel different. Like playing rex giga is different playstyle

[dusky surge]

skill floor and skill ceiling are very different things

[elfin night]

They will for sure. As I said, rex cannot survive by sticking to a certain hotspot and waiting for someone to come. And also juvie and sub rex will have their own playstyles which would differ from that of an adult specimen

[obtuse ocean]

Fully grown sub rex, was good in legacy : P

[elfin night]

Juvie and sub deino do the same as the adult but with different prey sizes

Juvie rex is (likely) going to be pretty different to an adult one in terms of role and behavior, hence why it has also taken a while to develop

[elfin night]

Best mid tier unironically

[obtuse ocean]

Also fully grown juvi cera was intenese : P

[elfin night]

True

The only viable non adult specimens, to the point where juvi cera was more viable than the adult

[obtuse ocean]

lol yepp

[obtuse ocean]

Yea its gonna be hard growing one for sure, and most will prob kill you if they get the chance : P

[elfin night]

I wish they don’t make rex innately cannibal because it would make the first days so bad in terms of gameplay, but I am looking forward to play it and see the design

[crimson crater]

ik, still

[elfin night]

Like what skill is there in aiming with a cursor that shows exactly where you will fall

Herra is quite literally the land deino

[cosmic pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1094956217320865912/1323365981166502029/classic_Jxmper_A_Clipchamppel_keszult.mp4?ex=6778dd5c&is=67778bdc&hm=603ed2a00b54d73b5c561a405a84995f45ec8d5b8fe07830466ac8f50c200d22&

This is the skill

[elfin night]

Herra is so unga bunga easy to play with on a superficial level (floor)

Then learning the best spots and sniping things that move would be the ceiling

[cosmic pelican]

Fair enough

[elfin night]

Thats at least how I see it. With that reasoning

Then Omni would be an inherently easier troodon all around. Lower floor because it is more forgiving, wins against most things that are smaller, and deals more damage while also easy to keep, but I would say their ceiling is approximately the same

[worthy steeple]

@ebon umbra #balance-feedback message why would maia ever fight an allo? it should run away from it

[worthy steeple]

thats epic, honestly

[cosmic pelican]

Thanks 🥔❤️

[ebon umbra]

Because Allo will probably be half it’s weight? Because a 4 ton herbi should be able to defend itself from solo midtiers? Because game should be fun? Pick your poison. It should run away from Rex, but Allo? Come on

[worthy steeple]

not really, maia is more than capable of running from an allo, maia should be good for killing something like omni or the dilo.

if you balance maia the way so it can fight an allo it will destroy everything that is smaller, dibble is made for fighting an allo, because the dibble wont be able to run away from it, but maia is faster than the omni, it really shouldnt be mid tier hunter some people want it to be

like even after the nerf maia still can stun+stomp cerato, teno and pachy. those guys have no chances against the good maia tbh.
before you start talking about how bad maia is i tested stuff on dm server and yeah good maia can easily kill any low tier.
not even gonna talk about 2v1 against lone cera or teno, its basically a death sentence, cant run away, cant stun it etc

[haughty grotto]

Yes it should absolutely run even from a subadult allo
It's got a huge health pool and super speed, there is no reason for it to ever die to an allo unless a pack of allos prepped the perfect ambush

[ebon umbra]

I think it’s ridiculous to have a herbivore of that size having to run away from carnis half its size. A mid tier herbivore that can only interact with small tiers. But whatever

[worthy steeple]

thats what it was made for, like imagine if it was that speedy but could easily kill everything that is smaller, that would be a nightmare

[haughty grotto]

Why do you think it's ridiculous?
Giving it strong combat abilities with that speed and hp would turn it into a rex killer lol

What you're suggesting sounds way more ridiculous
Like an oppressive tanky speedy tyrant

[ebon umbra]

It was not a Rex killer even before the nerfs what?

[ebon umbra]

So what if it was just a little slower🤔

[haughty grotto]

You had Maias running down every thing in sight, stunlocking them and killing them with no counter, including dibbles btw

[haughty grotto]

Then it wouldn't be Maia anymore
That's the whole point, it's fast and tanky and weak in combat
There are herbis that are slow and strong in combat, go ahead play those if u want
Stop trying to suggest all herbis to be equal in combat strength to their counterparts

[worthy steeple]

it would make it just generic herbivore, its speed makes maia super unique, theres no playable like maia in the game

[haughty grotto]

Ppl don't realize what it means to be the fastest herbivore
Read that again lol
And that too with a 3.8 ton health pool lol
(yes I know that the omnivore called galli exists)

Aside from a perfectly set up ambush, there is nothing in this game that should be able to kill a Maia unless the Maia allows it

[glossy elbow]

it's already fast and beefy it's completely unnecessary to allow it to be good at fighting and adds more balancing issues then it does good for the playable

[ebon umbra]

Everyone here is advocating for Maia to be a bad playable. Im out ✌️

[glossy elbow]

it's a bad playable because it can't fight everything?

alr cya

[elfin night]

Bro, what are these people No

Maia is a 3 ton tank with the speed of an omni and it can still fight a cera😭😭

They’re just asking almost for legacy maia to come back

The only playable of current legacy who actually deserved a hard nerf

[haughty grotto]

A bad combat playable doesn't mean bad playable
If you can't understand that then idk what to say

[worthy steeple]

i mean, ive seen people downvoting my "it should cost maia stam for using its attacks and especially stomping" feedbacks, nothing surprises me anymore xd

[worthy steeple]

imo legacy had some wild things going on

like dilo needs 12 bites to bleed out fg rex
theri being apex that is faster than all the mid tiers
alberto being super fast for no reason
acro being almost the fastest dino in game

legacy was actually wild, like crazy wild

[glossy elbow]

acro being the fastest dino is the game is crazy lmao

[worthy steeple]

it wasnt like the fastest, but it was faster than 90% of the roster, like its abush was 52km.h lmao and regular speed was the same as utahs.
the devs were trying to balance it with terrible 30 seconds stamina, but that was enough to kill anything anyway

[elfin night]

Sandbox wasn't balanced, it was never meant to be balanced

Plus that 12 bites thing isn't really true. If I recall correctly as a legacy dilo(besides carno) main, you only needed about that for max bleed but it could easily survive, and in officials you got alt turn

Maia on the other hand felt like an S tier sandbox dino put into survival

[worthy steeple]

fair enough

[elfin night]

same growth as utah/dilo/carno, 3k health and weight, best overall heal in the game (could heal 30/100 bleed per minute resting and 600 hp, just 100 less than a fg rex), average to good bleed resist, third fastest in all of survival, good stamina/regen and could three shot utahs and dilos

It was so absurdly easy to survive as one because nothing that could kill it could really catch up, and to add insult to injury those who couldnt fight a maia couldnt run either. Dilo would always die to Maia and Utah only survived if it got to a high place

[worthy steeple]

tho dilos bleed was still insane

[elfin night]

still rather balanced considering it was far slower and less agile than utah, had almost no bleed resist and overall was the most fragile carnivore. Pure glass cannon

[worthy steeple]

allo and dibble were pretty much the same. allo could heal from 0 to 100% in 4 minutes

[elfin night]

💀 Maia is like 10kph faster than dibble, it doesn't need to be even close to be dibble in combat

[elfin night]

right, but their hp heal to undo bleed-induced damage was nowhere close to the same

and dibble is a tank

[ebon umbra]

Yes in a game where there is nothing to do except FIGHT a playable that can’t fight is super duper fun. Especially when it takes several hours to grow. Brilliant.

[elfin night]

it very much can fight some mid tiers now, and it doesn't need to be capable of cleanly taking on multiple ceras when it can simply run away faster than them

carno also takes a while to grow, but it will never be capable of taking on a fg dibble. That doesn't make it a "bad playable"

just sticks to its league and intended design vro

Like I seriously dont get it

Anyone, please, I implore you to give me a good demonstrable argument as for why Maia needs a buff so badly when nothing can seriously threaten it at the moment unless it decides to pick a fight with the strongest land carnivores atm

doesnt it have like 3.5-4k hp and runs almost like a dilo?

[hazy lark]

I mean youre not supposed to get it. It doesnt make sense. They said they want it to be able to fight an allo, and have to run from a rex. A fast, high damage tank is never a good idea in any game. Which is what this is after all..

[elfin night]

They? Who? I doubt Dondi or any Dev dedicated to game balance said that

[hazy lark]

no that cognitive fellow defending the whole thing...

[elfin night]

yeah that's bs

it is just bad design if it was like that because then what are ceras supposed to do for instance? If a thing that fast could fight an allo, then it would be a serious, unfair threat to most of the roster BELOW it

[hazy lark]

it its also insane to think a stubby leg with a hoof supposedly evolved for Maia speed can also out dps teeth evolved to kill

[elfin night]

mhm

I personally dont like the idea of hadrosaurs being weak and always "easy" prey, but this is just not it. We already have para and shant for stronger hadrosaurs

this one is just meant to be a speed tank

[hazy lark]

im just saying you can only have 2 out of the 3 in the balance triangle of speed, stength, hp or its broken

[elfin night]

And I agree

[elfin night]

although in the isle you could also make it more nuanced with difficulty to reach adulthood, growth times and exclusive restrictions

Like deino, which is the highest damage carnivore, the tankiest and the fastest but only in water and it relies on that very hard

[hazy lark]

ya ofcourse, im generalizing

[elfin night]

And as I said, I think that is a good basis for standard balancing

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message another one lmao

[elfin night]

Maia has plenty of speed and defense, it doesn't need offense

[elfin night]

lol these people

[worthy steeple]

and its also a missinfo, stomp does 175+175 and tenos kick does 250

[elfin night]

bruh

@wanton edge well, you know Maia runs as fast as an Omni despite being 8 times heavier, right? Without considering mutations of course

If it can cleanly fight something much slower like a cerato, then it is basically making legacy maia all over again but worse, creating a playable ideal for griefing because many carnivores and herbivores alike wont be able to run away or fight it. And if it is slower to compensate, then you are also exposing it to larger predators such as Allosaurus, as well as adding yet another tank brawler herbivore as if we didn't have enough of those

With due respect, ofc

[worthy steeple]

and there’s also almost no delay between shove and stomp and ofc it locks in place, it’s a stomp xd

[elfin night]

dealing more damage than a teno while being faster and tankier is crazy

[worthy steeple]

yeah..

[elfin night]

Rest in peace, legacy Maia, you will not be missed

[worthy steeple]

i also spent hours testing maia vs teno yesterday and realistically good maia always wins against the good teno.

since maia just ignores tenos kicks and tail slams it just tanks it. so the strat is:

drift in quadruped for fast turning, aim at the teno and run, while running switch to biped for fast acceleration and use the “shove” teno is stunned and you can stomp it. people can call maia weak, but realistically there’s no way teno wins the fight if maia knows what to do.

tho there’s plenty of bad maias around, it’s pretty easy to kill them ahah. maias combat is super complicated, i think that’s the reason people think it’s weak, they just expect it to kill everything without even trying

but you need to be skilled to be effective as the maia, it’s not just run and bite

[charred spade]

I love democracy

[elfin night]

https://tenor.com/view/marrochi-evil-smile-film-gif-13076556282092711488

this you?

[charred spade]

https://tenor.com/view/mewing-snake-gif-15746462938455701178

[elfin night]

lol

the changes dont seem bad, only one I felt was a little iffy was the second carno note as (like I have argued) I want carno to be more like ideally reworked to have a higher skill floor rather than buffing

[charred spade]

Does anyone have any suggestions if I should add any dinos that need changes?

[elfin night]

other than the atrocious food draina and growth time

[wheat mica]

Getting food should also be a part of balance. I feel like due to the difficulty in getting food in general, you lose out on that aspect of balance. With a bit more AI to eat, smaller dinos could scrape by on hogs, goats, and juveniles, while a full grown T-Rex might need to actually take down player herbivores to not be constantly starving.

[charred spade]

Carno is currently a scavenger and Cerato is a top Hunter 😭

[elfin night]

2 ton carno when

[charred spade]

They want something similar for alo, but it will drastically weigh a little over 2x the biggest carnivores in the current game lol

Rex will be the first carnivore released this year and WEIGHS 8 TONS

1.300 to 8 Tons

[elfin night]

*9.3

will be fine with rex being like that if Trike comes soon and Rex is exceedingly hard to grow, more than Deino

[charred spade]

In my suggestion I offered 55 km of speed because this would make the carnivore an efficient migrant in search of food, increasing its chances of survival.

[worthy steeple]

i think the 45km/h pachy is too much. 43 is fine tho, stun if it breaks the bone is fine, stun for all the attacks is not imo.

i think 52 for the carnos base speed is fine. 55 is too much, its ram is 60km/h

50km/h troodon is insane, it would be unplayable

for omni i dont get it, why would it not use stam?

[charred spade]

Almost all carnivores in the game, except Cerato, reach their speed, especially if they have the Speed ​​Mutation.

[elfin night]

55 would be good imo if they made the turning take skill too and they took way how easy it is to spam the charge

In fact, I would nerf Carno's drift so that people are encouraged to break and accelerate on their own to make a more dynamic and skillful gameplay

personally, as a loyal 2015-2020 carno player

[charred spade]

Omni's specialty is attacking his prey with pounce, causing damage and bleeding, BUT HE IS PUNISHED FOR HIS MAIN SKILL, losing stamina quickly, in addition to his pounce being very flawed, causing him to waste stamina unnecessarily.

We have Dilo, who only needs to reach the third stage of the poison and launch his ghosts, without having to spend stamina in the process, DILO is not punished for his specialty, but Omni is punished.

[elfin night]

wouldn't really call it punishment

[worthy steeple]

yeah..

[elfin night]

it is super rewarding

[worthy steeple]

the dilo is hella op and deserves a nerf, i wouldnt really compare them

[charred spade]

it's a punishment, compare Dilo/Herrera with Omni, why do we have two specialized players who aren't punished for their specialty?

But Omni is punished for missing his pounces constantly.

[worthy steeple]

just one omni does 1000dmg with its pounce tho

and why would it not use stamia for using its main ability

[charred spade]

Nah, Dilo is doing very well in his Nightmare state.

We also have Carno, with his dash attack using very little stamina and he gains more speed in the process, he is not punished since the amount of stamina consumed is not large.

[worthy steeple]

i mean, its jumping, it should cost stamina

[worthy steeple]

yeah dilo needs one bite to kill literally anything during nighttime and few more bites to kill during daytime, its super op

the clones are bugged.

[charred spade]

Nah, at least it shouldn't consume so much stamina, he's an expert at that, not a 3-ton animal straining for a simple jump.

If you play as Omni, you'll see that his gameplay is extremely punishing.

Regarding the pachy, perhaps 45 km is too much, considering that it will cause stun, at least for animals weighing 1,300 tons.

[worthy steeple]

imo the game MUST punish for missing attack.

and ofc it should cost stamina to pounce, becuse if it doesnt omni can make million mistakes without ever being punished

[charred spade]

Dilo is not punished for making a mistake, Carno is not punished for making a mistake, Herrera is not punished for making a mistake.
But Omni and Troodon yes?

[worthy steeple]

the game should also punish omni for missing its pounce like it does with the pachy, idk why it doesnt tbh

[worthy steeple]

wdym? what?

[charred spade]

Pachy does not consume significant amounts of stamina in his headbutt attack, he has the same case as carno.

[worthy steeple]

the game punishes everyone

[charred spade]

No

[worthy steeple]

like do you expect the game punish dilo for missing it bite or something?

[worthy steeple]

IT DOES, wdym?

it consumes a lot of stamina

pachy does in fact consume a lot of stamina and it also stuns itslef, even when it hits.

omni should be stunned if it misses the pounce too.

[charred spade]

Herrera can miss his diving attack, he will return to the tree without any problems and will spend little energy in the process.

Dilo can miss his attack, this will not cost him anything, since he will be able to continue attacking without any problems and will be able to land more attacks because once the last stage of the poison reaches, he will no longer need to attack.

Cerato has an attack equivalent to two bites and causes vomiting, he does not lose anything.

Carno has a running attack that causes "passive" damage and this does not cost him much stamina, the same goes for Pachy.

They are an example of animals that are not punished for their specialties.

In the case of Cerato, the only problem here is the instant vomiting.

2 bites for vomit every lifeform lmao

[worthy steeple]

not really, its using stam to jump, it stuns itself or breaks the leg if the jump was too high and it also uses the stam to run and climb the tree.

the dilo needs to actually bite something which means it should engage in the fight before it can summon the clones (tho i already explained to you that dilo is busted and should be nerfed, it must be nerfed)

passive damage from carno? what? what are you even talking about? pachy uses stam for its attacks as well. its just missinfo

[charred spade]

I played Pachy and his stamina is not punishing, he is more of a prey animal than a defensive animal, since he does not cause stun and breaks bones easily, he always takes damage when he attacks.

That's why pachys are extinct lol

[worthy steeple]

alright, what that has to do with you wanting omni to not use stam for pouncing?

[charred spade]

"Passive"

He doesn't need to bite to cause direct damage, just hit any part of the animal's body he's using.

[worthy steeple]

pachy being in bad state has nothing to do with omni

[worthy steeple]

huh?

alright. i guess you're just trolling at this point

you either never played evrima or just a new player

[charred spade]

Nuh uh

I've been playing for almost 2/3 years, I started playing when Gateway launched.

I miss my pachy who breaks everyone's legs in 1 hit...
Personally, Omni was almost always punishing, only groups actually changed the dynamics, but still with a high death rate.

[steep echo]

#balance-feedback message
dryo crying in the corner, unable to escape malicious pachys or instant turning troodons

Also wait, omni would spend no stamina but troodon still has to bear that burden?

[haughty grotto]

...it's a survival game with combat
Not a combat game
Half the playables on the roster aren't good at combat, this isn't a new concept. I'm guessing all those are 'bad' too?

[elfin night]

You heard that guys, Galli is bad at a survival game

In all honesty, I’ve been testing maia lately and even though I haven’t done much combat, it really feels like it is in a good spot. Insanely fast from the moment it spawns for a mid tier, requires a decent amount of skill, decent enough growth rate…This thing is like a dryo but if a dryo could take a nuclear warhead to the face. Dunno why it would need to be able to chase and grief 25-30% of the roster

[ebon umbra]

Idk are they also some of the least played, most complained about playables on the roster that have further updates planned because they are currently not fun (because combat is the only thing to do in the game currently) Nah Dryo Hypsi and Ptera are just a treat and have soooo much to do 🙄

[ebon umbra]

Galli can fight lol

Like what game are you guys playing?

[worthy steeple]

bacon

[elfin night]

Galli can fight to some extent, yeah, but it does take effort and skill to bring down something like an omni

And now you got Maia, a creature capable of flipping over adult ceratos and dealing 70% of an Omni’s health bar in one blow

[ebon umbra]

Am I crazy, or wasn’t Maia nerfed so it couldn’t knock over Ceratos? Just stun

[worthy steeple]

i think it can knock down cerato and stun teno, but it doesn’t matter since it can stomp after just once anyway

[nova otter]

They should keep dilo's hallucinations as a thing but the mechanic should work differently I also think its old fog from release should be added back... For stages 1-2 you will become blinded (like you are now), fog will spawn and you will hear auditory hallucinations. Once you are put into stage 3 the blindness and fog will reach its max intensity and the audio hallucinations will persist. This is when the poision will start to work. When in stage 3 you will get a constant health drain from the venom but it will be a very small amount that will be drained each tick... this is when the clones come in. Each dilo can have 2-3 clones charged at once, they laugh to summon one and to regain a charge they have to land a bite on one of the currently afflicted targets. Dilos will no longer get passive spawned clones. When a clone bites a target it will add a multiplier to the venom damage. each clone bite will fill up an imaginary bar that will constantly be draining... the more the bar is filled the higher the multiplier is until it hits a cap. If the clone it bit before it lands a bite the amount it would fill the bar is greatly reduced.. if all dilos who had bitten you during the venom dies then the venom will start to fall of quicker

Anyone have any feedback on this idea? gonna reword it so its better to read and post it to feedback (please ping on reply)

[worthy steeple]

but imo it should not be able to stun neither of them💀

[elfin night]

It can knock down up to 40% of it’s weight, from my research. Enough for cera but not for teno

And even then, it still has enough stats to pose a threat to a cera even without knockdown. Triple the health, stomp, back kick…

When it can always simply run away and leave the cera alone

[worthy steeple]

kick stuns cera and carno tho, but it’s not bad, because it’s defensive tool

but being able to chase teno and cera down and stun+stomp is terrible

the funny thing is you can’t even outrun maia, it has more stam, it can outstam and outrun carno

the best thing you can do as a carno is to run away and try to hide so it won’t track you

[elfin night]

Exactly

Maia is already at the point where more would make it downright unfair to deal with

[worthy steeple]

yeah

[cosmic pelican]

It can knock down cera and carno if it uses the front shove at max speed

Side shove and kick only stun them

[elfin night]

Idk what happened to maia players, but now I wouldn’t touch it. It is not a no skill, no commitment, immortal crutch like in legacy; has a very powerful kit with a high skill cap and complexity akin to teno if not harder to use; and fulfills the unique role of mid tier herbivore speedster, like the tankier opposite of carno

And that’s good design!

[worthy steeple]

enough to stomp them after :(

[elfin night]

Maia is not only viable, but it may as well be one of the most interesting herbis to play atm.

Doesn’t need to be tank brawler herbivore number 46 to be good

[shadow vortex]

Oof why entering Diablo’s defensive stance costs stamina now… And why it sends me to a spar mode, which I need to turn off all the time because of it

[elfin night]

Who cares if it cannot fight an Allo? Not even most things 2 tons lighter than it can keep up with Maia on the run, that’s so stupidly good

[stark knoll]

Because it's not a defensive stance, using block puts you into spar mode

Blocking is part of sparring

[shadow vortex]

Wait, I prolly mixed up. How do I use block?..

[stark knoll]

Tap RMB

Or hold

[shadow vortex]

Oh

Well, it anyway sends me to the spar mode.. xd I don’t remember that it did so before the changes (nerfs?)… But thank you regardless!

[glossy elbow]

@analog mirage idk why they took off dilo from carnos diet but carno can or at least should be able to hunt maia or diablo in the early stages of growth not necessarily at adult

[analog mirage]

Yes I agree and that’s fine. But it shouldn’t be keeping those but not one of its primary food sources

Just explaining why it doesn’t make sense and should have Dilo added back

[north totem]

also idk why they remove galli from diet

[ivory oyster]

ive been getting kicked out of envrima NA 4 alot for the last couple of days. has anyone else had such issues

i couldnt play at all after 7 yesterday

[maiden temple]

#balance-feedback message
Why the speed changes? What are you struggling against?
Missing an attack should always cost you, that's a good way of punishing bad decisions and making the hunt have a time limit. Pounce no longer locks raptors in place if they miss, so it could be used as a dodge if it's free as well. Awful idea

[worthy steeple]

i’m surprised that many people upvoted that, like none of that makes any sense

[maiden temple]

I'm still surprised that cera's charge bite has no stam cost

[hasty coyote]

We love it when dryo is now just dies to troodon on sight unless there’s a skill diff. Troodon is just as agile, much better at combat, and is now slower. Also 45 kph pachy is kinda nuts, but really doesn’t help it.

[maiden temple]

I wish dryo had something fun to make people play, I haven't seen any of them in ages.. and pachy has so many issues atm

Hypsis are pretty much gone too

It's really hard to blind people now, idk if it's the distance needed or just harder to aim but it's hard work to make it light up orange

Especially going at full speed in the middle of a fight

Maybe spit needs to become a spray, like a skunk

[hasty coyote]

Burrow I beg for soon

Pachy really needs an overhaul. Fractures are incredibly op, only balanced by the fact pachy is abysmal and plagued by more bugs on a single attack than any other Dino have in total. I can list like 10 that have been there for over a year now.

Hypsi spit also needs to be easier to aim and more useful defensively rather than a troll tool. Plus climbing.

[maiden temple]

I'd love burrow v.v
I really want pachy to get some attention ;_;

[broken light]

Love how people just assume the Hypsi's are rare.....we are just way better at not being seen, in reality on average there are 3 hypsi's per 10 feet of tall grass watching you at all times

[ebon umbra]

Maia is in an extremely bad spot against any player that knows what it’s doing. Blindspots, bugged stances, nerfed acceleration, nerfed slam…All that so it can be really fast and avoid all interactions. Probably the most boring herbivore life of them all. Nickaboay can 1v1 it as an Omni and posted it on youtube. Now he’s a very good Omni, but he then lost to the same player that switched Carno, which also isn’t very good right now. Maia is hot garbage. All so it can run away, because otherwise it’s “generic”.

[elfin night]

Mid tier herbivore speedster is very much unique

[elfin night]

And I would recommend reading this so I don’t repeat myself

[ebon umbra]

I read it. My point still stands. Trading the ability to interact with anything for uniqueness is bad game design. I think the acceleration nerf and possibly a bleed nerf would have been sufficient.

[elfin night]

It can still very much interact with anything. It has simply become legacy carno and I’m happy that there is now a dinosaur in this game that takes a sizable amount of braincells to function 😭

Good maia wins always against good teno

[hazy lark]

"ability to interact with anything"

bro wants a swiss army knife dinosaur on plant eating easy mode and he refuses to take no for an answer

[ebon umbra]

Again, lost 1v1 to an Omni and your response to that is, “it should run away”

[ebon umbra]

I want Maia to be a 4 ton herbviore. “Plant eating easy mode” is an insane cope it sucks!!

[elfin night]

A very good player with an Omni and likely a not very experienced Maia

By that rule of three, Teno should also be buffed and is in a horrible spot because it can die to a very good Troodon. What would be the difference there?

[ebon umbra]

It was a decent Maia. It did everything it’s supposed to and lost.

A bad teno can kill a good troodon so I don’t see the comparison. In fact we should apparently nerf it to make it “more unique”?

[hazy lark]

no you want it to be faster than every carnivore in game except one, and be able to bully and grief them all including Allo until Rex releases. ive been reading this nonsense for the last day

[elfin night]

This is brutal cope, a good maia can also kill a good omni 😭

And that is an insane strawman in that last line

[ebon umbra]

If you were getting bullied and griefed maybe your skill with carnivores is just lacking

[hazy lark]

Whatever helps you cope yourself to sleep at night lol. Classic last resort in these discussions. Must be a skill issue LOL

[elfin night]

Do you realize that Maia with more combat capabilities would just be legacy maia again but even worse? Just an overtuned mess that can be used perfectly for griefing things that cannot run away from it or fight?

But I get it, who cares about the dinosaurs you don’t main, right?

[ebon umbra]

Occam’s razor 🤷🏾‍♂️

[hazy lark]

ok then the simplest answer is youre being bulllied as Maia and thats why youre crying

[ebon umbra]

I dont main Maia and don’t plan to 😭 it’s just a really bad playable now

[hazy lark]

dont worry we believe you bro

OcCuMs RaZoR

[ebon umbra]

This is just tragic

[elfin night]

“4 ton herbivore should be able to easily fight something like a cera!”

it is almost 7 kph faster

triple the health

can outstam cera

Truly it would be the carnivore’s fault if it gets spotted and griefed by a Maia with no counterplay

[hazy lark]

everyone fights in a discord for a day oversomething they dont care about

[ebon umbra]

I like the game and want it to not suck. And your argument of “Maia should be bad because otherwise it will be too good, but also we can’t change its other values otherwise I personally would think it’s generic” is braindead

[elfin night]

Nothing can threaten it at the moment, how is that bad?

Even dibble and stego can be threatened by something like packs of carnivores but Maia can just avoid all of them except one won’t be able to take it down in a 1v1 anyway

[hazy lark]

https://tenor.com/view/when-the-coping-is-too-strong-cope-neil-degrasse-tyson-gif-15155527

good day sir. This is insane

[ebon umbra]

Again we circle back to Maia should have no interactions and somehow that’s good balancing and good game design

Idk what is personally wrong with ya’ll, probably puberty, but your balancing opinions and behavior are dog water

good day

[hazy lark]

STAY MAD

[ebon umbra]

Stay 14

[hazy lark]

bro im 64 y/o tf

[slim dragon]

So interacting=killing things
Nothing else
Interesting

[ebon umbra]

As opposed to?

[slim dragon]

Avoiding a predator is a valid form of interaction

[ebon umbra]

Every time? Nah. Even Galli has the ability to fight back instead of running. I’ve been on both ends with Galli killing an Omni or Dilo. What else does Maia get to do?

[slim dragon]

the same thing

[hazy lark]

some people will never understand that THEIR personal experience with something isnt a standard issue experience

alot of factors involved my guy

[ebon umbra]

This is the fifth time I’ve had this conversation. I point out how even a competent Maia sucks against most of the roster, then we go back to it can run away from them all. No real interactions. Bad design.

And this is off of dozens of perspectives bud. Not just my own.

[hazy lark]

Dont worry we believe you

[slim dragon]

Not everything has to fight everything

[ebon umbra]

Yup here we go again. I think a 4 ton herbivore should be able to fight many things. I don’t think Hypsi needs to be able to fight an Omni. I don’t even think Carno needs to fight Dibble. Maia should be able to reasonably defend itself from larger threats than ONE omni.

[slim dragon]

Then it should be much slower to compensate for its strength

And then we would have 2 dibbles, but one without horns
Is that good game design ?

[elfin night]

Nice strawman argument. I never argued that Maia is bad at the moment in the first place and I exposed with actual arguments how it would break the basic balance triangle (speed, offense and defense) if you were to buff the only trait where it is lacking, thus making it an ideal griefing tool. And in regards to not being “generic”, I only argued that herbivores have too many combat oriented brawlers at the moment, because guess what, LITERALLY ALL OF THEM are different flavors of brawler tank herbivores with the exception of Para which is more or less to be decided.

[hazy lark]

The basis of balance, the Triangle

[elfin night]

Calling us teenagers (essentially immature) for disagreeing with you and using these arguments is

[ebon umbra]

Yeah most of them are going to be combat oriented because it is the only thing to do in this “survival” game. Like be serious.

[ebon umbra]

Nah ya’ll were both being immature. Moreso the other dude but I blocked him

[elfin night]

No it’s not? When I am a Giga in legacy and I see two rexes, my only solution isn’t just to fight them. Survival has both fight and flight, and it is fine for playables to lean more towards one side than the other

[elfin night]

I don’t think we really are other than that comment you made which is just one comment in a long discussion

[hazy lark]

I mean after I said i was done I only responded with nonsense so hes not 100% wrong.. but pretending he hasnt acted like that the whole time is weird. Yesterday they started the discussion by calling me stupid. They arent a serious person..

[ebon umbra]

Again, complete nonsense argument. This isn’t about Maia needing to run from two of one playable. It, at its best, is awful against a majority of carnis.

[hazy lark]

except the triangle of balance. Thats real

[ebon umbra]

I didnt call you stupid stop lying

[elfin night]

Is it awful against the majority really? Without counting those that will have a clear advantage ofc

[hazy lark]

braindead?

also mb youre right. It was Keit i mixed you two up during the double team

[ebon umbra]

Troodon slays. Omni murders. Cera Dogwalks. Carno probably loses but it sucks against more than one omni anyway. Maia used to be a good fight with Dilos but now it’s fodder. There is no reason to play the stupid dinosaur. I’d rather have another strong herbivore with complex combat than either never see one because it doesn’t get played and when it does, it just disengages. It’s mind boggling that you think it’s balanced that nothing in the game can catch it and it can’t fight anything.

[elfin night]

Maia admittedly does have complex combat and does take some skill to use, and I honestly feel like it is an exaggeration that it performs poorly against troodon

In regards to cera, it is significantly faster and has more stamina too as well as a faster trot

And omni, well, I would rather see the combat myself because I do not believe it is not a huge difference in skill and positioning that someone can lose a fight like that with an animal that can deal 70% of Omni’s healthbar with one attack and has 8 times more health

[ebon umbra]

Its attacks are slow and it turns even worse. Anyone with skill and a better turning speed can just avoid their attacks. Which always leads to the Maia running and praying you got enough bleed on it to track it down. Troodon was slaying it before the nerfs, but I haven’t seen how it preforms now. I mean people have gotten used to it I suppose, but it’s also worse now so…I heavily recommend watching Nickboay’s recent video. Just the first 12 minutes. I’ll do some more testing myself when I get back from vacation but what I’m seeing is nobody playing Maia anymore for the reasons listed. It’s just boring at its core. Other playables that rely on speed at least have some risk attached to them. Maia has nothing

[hazy lark]

"what im seeing"

"when i get back from vacation"

nothing to see here folks. Just conjecture. Dont believe your eyes. There arent Maia's all over Official servers and they are just extremely bored running from everything because of a video on youtube where a 30fps glitchy raptor fights a stationary maia for 10 mins.

[ebon umbra]

Aw l guess some people will never understand that THEIR personal experience with something isnt a standard issue experience.

[hazy lark]

thought you blocked me

[hazy lark]

the difference is one of us is trying to force their experience on others, and the other is saying believe your eyes

[elfin night]

I saw the omni vs Maia video and tbh that doesn’t really feel like a realistic example of how the matchup would go. First up, that omni was actually very good and is unlikely that a considerable amount of players are gonna be like that. Secondly, the maia CLEARLY had the upper hand and it doesn’t “get murdered” by omni per se. The maia was doing absolutely nothing about its blindspot at the tip of the tail and let it get bitten multiple times while also not playing aggressive at all.

In fact, in a real combat scenario, the Maia would’ve had about 5-7 precious minutes of time (ik the fight lasted about 10, but I am considering it before the bleed gets too bad) to run away and guide the Omni to a more favorable position like a tree or a cliff because it simply cannot stop you, it cannot do anything about it. What other herbivore in this game has the capacity of choosing its favorable fighting scenario when facing smaller critters? Dibble for sure can’t do that, but maia sure as hell can be like “nope, now we’re fighting with my tail hanging from the edge of a cliff because you cannot catch up to me as I run there and all you can do is occasionally nibbling at my tail but risk getting brake checked and kicked in the face”

Combat isn’t one dimensional

If anything, Maia just became legacy carno (and I am kinda biased to like that despite using what I see as reasonable arguments in its defense)

Bad or mediocre carnos also died to utahs quite frequently, but a good carno (because it required a significant amount of skill to play effectively) could easily take on like 5 utahs at a time and not sweat it

https://tenor.com/view/ehehe-laughing-cat-cat-laughing-silly-cat-gif-16961599182308150028

I don't expect many people to use Maia efficiently but I am glad it exists the way it is

[worthy steeple]

#balance-feedback message is this ai generated? why’s this so random

lmao

[cosmic pelican]

60% chance omnis just dont take dmg...

Made me physically hurt

[viscid mica]

@meager hazel Are you scared of sub dilo and omni as a full adult carno? Like even if they run you down you do 3 times the damage and have 3 times the health just fight back?

@pliant solstice I mean? Yes? Apex’s will always be annoying especially the land ones? I mean stego and deino are technically apex sized and have roughly 4-6 hour grows and those are on the smaller or less powerful side of apex’s.

@wanton igloo unfortunately if you make something that affects mixpacking people stalling herds to try and wait for a weaker one to get separated will get ruined by it. The best thing to fix it is bigger carnis to make mix packing less effective to the point where cera dibble isn’t strong enough to survive a them

[wanton igloo]

Can you explain more? I dont understand what you mean

[viscid mica]

If you make anything that affects carni or herbi based on proximity to eachother it will ruin game play for some styles unrelated to mixpacking

[wanton igloo]

Like what? Besides herbis chasing down carnis.🤔

[viscid mica]

For example, I myself play a lot of solo or duo omni, dilo or troodon. We tend to stalk Herbie groups or what can be up to an hour sometimes meaning that I am extremely close proximity for that entire time. What we’re looking for is for one of the weaker ones to separate from the group and pick them off by making something that affects dinos based on proximity you would ruin that play style.

[wanton igloo]

oh i see, how do you think it could be balaced and include that?

[viscid mica]

All you really need is bigger things that are more of a threat to other dinos, forcing them to not be effective for example, a duo of Allo would crush a dibble cera combo group

The more bigger the better

[wanton igloo]

I see, but then what about a Allo Dibble group? or a Rex Dibble group?

[viscid mica]

Walk away your probably faster than them

Plus Rex dibble would be awful cuz nothing is taking that fight less than another apex or duo of apex’s and dibble will die instantly

Trike dibble and any really beefy brawler herbi is slow af too

[wanton igloo]

True

[viscid mica]

Just walk away? If they want the fight they’ll have to split up

You can play hit and run tactics to force them away from they’re carry

And let’s be honest most mix packers ARE NOT good at the game

They are not surviving a full Rex grow

Any carni group would see that Rex and dibble together before they big and run that Rex down instantly

[wanton igloo]

yeah i suppose, but every mix pack group i've encountered stayed together or ran me down until i lost stam. I got killed as a dilo yesterday by a carno and 3 cereas.

[viscid mica]

I mean that carno alone was probably enough

[wanton igloo]

nah i lost him but the ceratos kept up somehow

[viscid mica]

But the play is running and hiding if you can’t out pace them

[wanton igloo]

ill try that next time

[viscid mica]

A lot of time to walk

[viscid mica]

Ya you gotta make sure that your A not bleeding (so no tracks/hard to find) and B fully hidden

It’s not garanteed but it’s worked for me prolly 9/10 times

[wanton igloo]

yeah, not bleed is kinda tricky when they get a surprise bite lol.

[cosmic pelican]

Or get mud and be impossible to track

[viscid mica]

Also if your big enough to envonemate you can blind them with stage 1 and dip

[cosmic pelican]

[viscid mica]

That too

My dilo skins are devious like fully camouflaged

[wanton igloo]

I realized that shortly after dying 😂

[viscid mica]

💀

[wanton igloo]

still mixpacking is an inconvenience that needs a resolution

[viscid mica]

Let’s just say once some mid tier carnis drop we finna see a whole wave

[wanton igloo]

thatll be awesome

[viscid mica]

Sense dibble won’t be able to stomp them like it does all these small tiers

(Small is under 2T btw)

[wanton igloo]

But what about the players who anjoy playing small tier Dinos? those players are still vulnerable. Theres gotta be a way to stop mixpacking without impeding stalking hunts.

[viscid mica]

Run, hide, numbers