balance-feedback-discussion

[versed rune]

then the player controls the horde and can command them to attack things

it would literally solve the "troodon has no playerbase" issue

[dusky surge]

it does have a playerbase tho

[sage marsh]

Well boi do I have good news for you. Compy is a modded playable in PoT and it is hilarious.

[versed rune]

i generally agree with you on this but i think troodon is an exception

do more people play troodon now?

last i played it was relegated to hypsi meme tier

[dusky surge]

yea, especially given it hits like a nuke on top venom levels lmao

[versed rune]

has it been buffed?

[dusky surge]

several times

[versed rune]

oh well thats good

[dusky surge]

and with new NV, it really prospers at night

[sage marsh]

I'm unsure. I hear people talking about Troodon more then I see people play it.

[versed rune]

glad at least someone's favorite dino is getting buffs

[sage marsh]

Mostly about changing venom functionality or mimicking.

[versed rune]

also

[dusky surge]

kinda hard to see people play Troodon, frankly, given it's
A: Tiny
B: Nocturnal
C: Supposed to be unseen

[versed rune]

is the stego meta still like. a thing?

[sage marsh]

Facts

[dusky surge]

eh... no?

like i dont think it's ever been much of a thing

[versed rune]

by stego meta i mean

pick stego and never die to anything but other stegos

[dusky surge]

dibble can kick its ass, deino can drag it into its watery grave (happens a lot at swamp), omnis/ceras/dilos all have ways of hunting it in groups

[versed rune]

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-stare-gif-26332648

me watching diabloceratops be a better stego killer than any one carnivore

[sage marsh]

I mean, yah, but no. Not really. Stego is by no means invincible. It's just not worth the risk most of the time unless you are a Deino catching one swimming.

We need Allo. Yesterday.

[versed rune]

the fact that so many people in this communtiy are so hostile to the idea of a carno/allo rivalry is just

like damn do u really hate fun that much

[sage marsh]

Tbf Carno, Allo rivalry was not a thing. It was always Allo, Cerato rivalry.

[versed rune]

u talking real life or in game

[dusky surge]

i doubt the carno allo rivalry would last long

allo pins you and bye

[sage marsh]

Irl.

[versed rune]

oh yeah it was cerato and allo irl

but cerato is technically carno's great grandfather

so, there's that lol

[sage marsh]

Yes. Yet another reason the 2 being on similar ground bothers me.

[versed rune]

i mean, not if you balanced it to be fair and fun

[versed rune]

how so ?

[dusky surge]

also the allo cera rivalry in the isle seems more like a very healthy respect from a distance as cera lmao

[sage marsh]

It not a reasonable reason given the premise of the game so it doesn't matter. It nit picky.

I just think that if a T Rex and a Daspletosaurus fought then obviously the T Rex should win ya know?

[versed rune]

well, there's a very huge size gap there

[dusky surge]

yea, personally, i dont much see the competition between the two animals

[versed rune]

the elites wont tell you this but carnotaurus and allosaurus are pretty much within the same size range

[sage marsh]

I agree for the most part. I'm really hoping that there can be a balance had where a Cerato can challenge a weakened Allo for a Stego corpse and be competitive.

[versed rune]

like ironically this is one thing jurassic world gets right

[sage marsh]

Give or take 500kg or so

[versed rune]

yeah like

we have about 40+ allosaur specimens, vs one carnotaur specimen

if i remember correctly there are only about 2 or 3 of those 40 that measure in larger than the one carno

not to say that carno was larger overall, cuz we literally only have one carno to base it on

[sage marsh]

Ya know what. Just give me Disney Carnotaurus and be done with it.

[versed rune]

TRUE

too bad we never getting hypo carno 😭

[dusky surge]

we are

hyper carno was shown off on a stream, in Gateway

not doing like, anything, but it was THERE

[sage marsh]

"Checks watch" 10 years later

[versed rune]

i just

dont see how hypos will work fairly in the current game mode

[sage marsh]

They won't. Not in the current game.

Not enough food

[versed rune]

like, okay, 5 dinos get hypos. rex, spino, giga, carno utah. MAYBE dilo and quetz cuz dilo and quetz were also considered "apexes" at one point

what about all the other carnivores without strains

and herbivores

everyone will just pick those 5 to 7 carnivores nonstop and grind to get hypos

[sage marsh]

Dondi showed hypo Carno off in one stream and said it looked pretty good and could be plopped right in. Is that an indicator we will ever get strains? Honestly who knows. Does it matter at any point in the remote future? I'd be surprised.

[dusky surge]

strains are still planned

[versed rune]

RIP tissoplastic

[dusky surge]

herbivores may get strains. strains are still up in the air so

[versed rune]

remember what they took from you

[dusky surge]

tisso wasn't killed

magna was

hate magna

[versed rune]

magna is never happening for sure lmao

[sage marsh]

Ah Magna Rex. Just big Rex. That was somehow different from Hypo. But not really.

[versed rune]

i mean

magna rex is LITERALLY primal carnage rex

they denied it so many times

then it turns out "oh actually you were right it's PC rex"

and alas, carnage never came home.

https://tenor.com/view/paper-mario-ttyd-the-thousand-year-door-paper-mario-remake-paper-mario-ttyd-gif-17763927042127487571

call this a hot take, but one idea i had was that every carnivore gets strains, whereas every herbivore would get elders

[sage marsh]

How many of these dino survival games have spawned off primal carnage? Didn't some The Isle devs start on Primal Carnage? And now we have Isle devs make PoT? Does BoB have ties to The Isle also?

[versed rune]

they are literally all from the same family tree

primal carnage is the grandfather, isle is the father, and isle's children are BoB and PoT

thats the easiest way i can explain it

and it all boils down to nobody can make a damn video game lmao

[sage marsh]

Ya, sounds about right.

[dusky surge]

i feel like that seems really carni sided lmao

[versed rune]

It kind of is but I feel like that’s the point, like what if you gave herbs a less rough path to elder than the carnivores have to strains

And each herbivorous elder is equipped to somewhat counter or defend other herbs against a specific strain

[sage marsh]

Just add herbivore AI and let the ecosystem filter itself.

[dusky surge]

god no

herbivore AI is literally just asking for half the roster to stop existing

[versed rune]

I agree

The biggest ai Dino’s should be troodon and hypsi

Especially since isle has proved on multiple occasions that they can’t do good AI

[sage marsh]

How?

[dusky surge]

not even hypsi or troodon should be AI

[versed rune]

I’m indifferent

[dusky surge]

want a proteins option that's 20kg or bigger and AI?

deer. literally just deer

[versed rune]

I can take it or leave it with hypsi and troodon

[dusky surge]

why would i play a herbivore if socialising, the one thing that makes herbivore fun, is EXCEPTIONALLY harder because I'm constantly having to filter through AI versions of my own species, and carnivores provide a PvE experience as well, but as big bad carnivore

hell, why would i play a small tier carnivore to act as a smaller part of the ecosystem when i could just play a big carnivore and eat stego AI or whatnot

basically, you've completely obliterated any semblance of ecosystem, because it does its own thing for you

you just play the big boys and let the server take care of the rest

[versed rune]

Back to this though, like say you have hypo carno, the size of a T. rex roughly. Elder trike would be adapted to countering it and defending other herbivores from it, just a cool thing like that

[dusky surge]

not even mentioning the megapacks. teno AI made megapacks SO easy and convinient to achieve, if your carno pack didn't consist of 8 during the teno AI era, what were you even doing

[sage marsh]

Thats fair but what happens when player counts are low and I want to play a carnivore?

[versed rune]

Essentially elders would be herd leaders to protect herb populations from hypos, often sacrificing themselves in the process

[slim dragon]

Elders are nothing like strains

[versed rune]

They’re not you’re right

This is just a cool idea I had

[dusky surge]

you have little AI to sustain yourself on or the ability to log off your literal food vacuum because you know it WILL starve on an empty server

[versed rune]

That’s something I really like about path of titans actually

[slim dragon]

That's like saying carnivores get to become super saiyans while herbivores can grow old but slightly stronger

[sage marsh]

Say those empty servers continue and the only way I can continue to play is to play a herbivore and have little to no interactions?

[versed rune]

There’s not as much urgency to find food in PoT and one kill provides a lot. You have plenty of down time to rest and make nests

[dusky surge]

why are you playing an apex on the worlds least played server

[versed rune]

Better than herbivores getting jack like they do currently lol

[dusky surge]

They're... Getting elders tho

[sage marsh]

Just humor me. I decide I'll just starve playing a carni so I play a herbivore. Say it's teno for arguements sake. And the server is still dead.

[versed rune]

Carnivores are getting elders AND strains

[slim dragon]

Elders are already coming for every single species
So yeah, that would equate to herbivores getting jack

[versed rune]

Mhm

Carnivores get the same thing herbs get, plus strains

[dusky surge]

okay but them ALL getting strains and herbivores just getting elders is sadder imho

[versed rune]

I get that, in my mind it’s a way to make herbivores still feel like underdogs, and make it feel much cooler when you would defeat a strain as an elder

[slim dragon]

I wish for a herbivore-exclusive strain to counter hypers
Something like Osteogenic or Phytosymbiotic

[sage marsh]

Give them all elders and none of them strains and problem is solved.

[versed rune]

I guarantee this is what will happen

[dusky surge]

what about photovictus haha

[versed rune]

Hypos are just kinda one of those too good to be true concepts

[sage marsh]

Then give the humans big pew pews to one shot the Rexes with

[versed rune]

I admit I’m totally blackpilled when it comes to strains

I don’t think they will ever happen

[slim dragon]

What even is photovictus, apart from one of your old usernames ?

[versed rune]

Like man

It’s been nearly a decade and still no humans with guns

[sage marsh]

Dondi claims it easy. So let's just give them the big pew pews

[dusky surge]

strain i made up lol

[slim dragon]

Actually there are humans with guns in the game
Just disabled on officials

[sage marsh]

Carno being a problem for your hypsi? Call animal control.

[versed rune]

If it’s easy humans would’ve been in in 2016, 2017 latest

[slim dragon]

Guess it has something to do with light ?
Biblically accurate trike ?

[versed rune]

Yeah they exist but they don’t DO anything, there’s no story or gameplay loop

[slim dragon]

No, because the dino game loop is what's being actively worked on right now

[versed rune]

I was in middle school when they said this

I am now a college graduate with a bachelor’s.

[sage marsh]

Let me charge at and total a jeep with my Carno

[slim dragon]

I do think it would have been better if humans were added in early as possible, and then finish the game with humans already in, but I guess that would have also slowed down development

[sage marsh]

Let me put a minigun on the back of the jeep while we are being chased by a pack of raptors cause it would be totally balanced.

[versed rune]

Like idk man

The fact that things like tribals and hypos and quetz were all these magical cool things back when I was a middle schooler are STILL not a thing when I’m a grown adult…

It really makes you think sometimes

Like it has been 10 years of all talk and no action from my view

[sage marsh]

Let me fly a helicopter and crash it into a quetz in midair

[versed rune]

LMAO

PLEASE

that would be so funny

[slim dragon]

You're aware they restarted the game from scratch halfway through, right ?

[sage marsh]

Tbf, is has still been a full normal game dev cycle and not an impressive amount to show for it. Dondi doesn't want to expand too much so it is what it is. However if they were to ask for more money I think they would suddenly have extra money that it would only make sense to expand

[sage marsh]

Cause a playable every 6 months ain't it. Even 3 playables a year ain't it.

From June last year to December last year was 6 playables. While that's not always feasible doing that many in a year i don't think is entirely unreasonable. 4-6 at least

[slim dragon]

They stated multiple times they have sufficient money, and they're already expanding the dev team

[sage marsh]

It don't feel like it. But tbf the fruit of that has not grown just yet.

[slim dragon]

Right now they're adding playables that all need extra complicated mechanics to be added, which then can be reused for future playables
And that's why they're adding them

[versed rune]

The fact that they had to restart and are still facing the exact same problems as last time speaks volumes

Jurassic park aah moral themes

[sage marsh]

Which does have me optimistic but it still concerning cause how much is that really gonna speed things up? A lot, a little? I dont know a whole lot about game development so honestly this is just the pessimism talking.

[slim dragon]

They're not facing the exact same problems as before tho, what are you on about ?

[slim dragon]

Speaking from my own (little) experience in game development, it's gonna speed things up by A LOT.

[versed rune]

poor game balance
lack of content
game breaking bugs galore
hackers
massive direction shifts every 2 years or so

[sage marsh]

Well i know that if for example they were to take the legacy approach and just upscale Maia to Shant size and make the adjustments that would be extremely fast. But we know for a fact they aren't gonna do that. So I just don't known what exactly gets easier when that's not being done. I get new mechanics are a pain. I guess what I'm getting at is I dont know enough about the ins and outs for my concerns to be put at ease

[sage marsh]

Balancing is 100% on dondi's shoulders. The rest of that just comes with the territory of being a game in active development.

[slim dragon]

Programming is easier
When making a new mechanic/anything new, for a programmer, time spent is 20% programming the new thing and 80% debugging it
And that's when things work right

[versed rune]

Fun dino game lore fact

Dondi was removed from primal carnage because of his balancing

Partly, anyway

[sage marsh]

Lmao

[slim dragon]

So with an already existing mechanic you eliminate most of that

[sage marsh]

Well thats good to hear

[slim dragon]

Way better than legacy's
No ?
Better than legacy again, at least the bugs are getting fixed this time around
That one's true, not much can be done right now tho
What ?

[dusky surge]

oh yea, legacy balance lol

AND LEGACY BUGFIXING

[glossy elbow]

thats under the assumption that he doesn't ask the rest of the team for their opinions for possible changes

[dusky surge]

remember the para situation

so funny

[versed rune]

What about it

[sage marsh]

I'll admit this is word of mouth that I've gotten this from. So I dont know the 100% truth behind it. But to my knowledge Dondi is leading balance

[dusky surge]

they fixed something in legacy, and it basically, iirc, broke every single one of paras animations and hitboxes

what they fixed had nothing to do with para, let alone any dinosaur.

[versed rune]

Remember how the reasoning for the recode was blamed on deathlyrage’s “spaghetti code”

I don’t know anything about coding

But I’m gonna keep it real, with how isle feels vs how pot feels functionality wise, I’m starting to wonder how true that actually was

[slim dragon]

"Fixing lighting in legacy made para break"
"There was no spaghetti code in legacy"

https://tenor.com/view/there-is-no-war-in-ba-sing-se-dai-li-agent-avatar-the-last-airbender-atla-gif-16455523

[dusky surge]

if i recall correctly, deathly used a LOT of unreal blueprints

like.... a lot a lot

[versed rune]

I meant the blaming deathlyrage part lmao

[slim dragon]

Wasn't he like, the only programmer at the time ?

[versed rune]

Either that or one of two or three

I do not remember

I think he was the only one

[slim dragon]

Then, who else to blame it on ?

The concept artist ?

[dusky surge]

LMAO

[vale brook]

also if we're using dondi getting fired from PC as an excuse as to why he is bad... why not mention deathlyrage's involvement with the archotek project?

[dusky surge]

oh god

i tried playing archotek once and it sure was potentially a game

one could imagine it even maybe playable in some timeline adjacent to our own

[slim dragon]

I never heard of that

[vale brook]

((exactly))

[slim dragon]

hmmm
It looks bad

[leaden remnant]

done coding, once tried to fix a bug that led to ppl spawning with nothing and the loading screen broke, it became a permanent loading screen

[west plank]

#balance-feedback message A herbivore that can run faster than raptors and fight 5 ceratos alone cannot be mid tier

[dusky surge]

it... is a midtier tho

you can say it cant be, but it is

[west plank]

Allo will be lighter than Maia, so right now Maia is strong enough to kill an allo

[slim dragon]

Weight isn't everything

[dusky surge]

^

allo will do actual bleed and damage, unlike maia lmao

basing everything on weight is legacy mindset lol

[west plank]

maia can block attacks with hit and run tactics because its faster than a raptor

[dusky surge]

except it has no bleed resist, running makes it bleed faster, and allo is a bleeder

[west plank]

weight affects the knockdown ability and thanks to this, Maia has the right to deal extra hits, so weight is an important factor.

[dusky surge]

sure. but when the maia does extremely poor damage for its size, allo has that advantage

[west plank]

He will be strong enough to knock down Allo, so Allo will not be able to hit him too much and he will become weak early and lose this vs.

[dusky surge]

allo grabs it once, does a ton of bleed, and if maia keeps fighting, it dies of blood loss

the fact that you've already decided maia wins despite knowing NOTHING about how allo will work, or even its stats, is really funny tho

[west plank]

I hope so, but maia can currently fight 5 cera at the same time.

[dusky surge]

no it cant, unless those 5 ceras are incredibly, incredibly bad

basing that claim off a youtube video in which the ceratos played like headless chickens really doesn't fill me with confidence

[west plank]

because allo cannot fight 5cera at the same time

[dusky surge]

says who? if the ceras are as bad as the ones i saw that maia take on, then i'd say yea, allo can take 5 lmao

because i assume you're referring to that youtube video someone posted of them fighting 5, really bad ceratos

[west plank]

No, this is valid everywhere because Maia is faster and they can easily hit the knockdown ability he uses while running.

[dusky surge]

no, it really isnt

if 5 ceratos are losing to 1 maia, those are garbage ceras

you'd have to be trying to lose at that rate

ive watched a single dilo/cerato kill an adult maia. does that mean maia is extremely weak and needs buffs urgently? no, it means the maia is bad.

[west plank]

I think Maia's speed or one of his other stats should be nerfed, he's unnecessarily strong right now.

[dusky surge]

i very much disagree, especially with the speed

i think people actually need to learn how to deal with maias before calling for nerfs

[west plank]

No, but all ceras can't be stupid and also when one of them dies, the body buff activates and yet Maia continues to fight.

[crimson crater]

the stamina

[crimson crater]

• slower swim speed

[dusky surge]

i'mma be honest, based on most ceras i see in games, the majority of ceratos absolutely can be stupid, and are

[west plank]

fair

[crimson crater]

isle players in general

[west plank]

Based on my own experience, Maia is a bit too strong and needs to be balanced without overdoing it.

[dusky surge]

true, but it applies especially to cerato, because cera players have gotten comfortable with being "ez win apex" and thus cannot handle anything that goes beyond their comfort range of threats

cerato attracts power gamers because, lo and behold, it da strongest carnivore

[crimson crater]

i would say that dibble players are more like that tbf

[dusky surge]

nah, dibble honestly aint that bad in my experience. most of the power gamers went right back to cerato when they realised dibble was harder to grow and less good at hunting things down

[crimson crater]

harder to grow? all you have to do is chill in a patrol zone your whole life

occasionally drink etc

[dusky surge]

and yet cerato is still way easier

[crimson crater]

maybe everyone wouldn’t be playing cera if carno wasn’t underperforming

[glossy elbow]

underperforming at what specifically?

[crimson crater]

hunting small game.
2 gallis can make work out of it
2-3 omnis aswell
a single dilo can kill it by facetanking and then RMB untill it dies.
a herrera will just run back to its tree especially now since it can tank a hit or two.

[leaden remnant]

dibble is pretty easy to grow

spawn in the middle of nowhere spawn yourself a patrol zone and just eat

or go to delta and eat + vomit for 300% growth boost

cera, however, is somewhat complicated to grow

it's useless as a juvie and sub, you gotta be an adult to be able to do something

[dusky surge]

dibble is arguably even more useless as a juvi

thing is slower than a juvi stego

[leaden remnant]

it absolutely is

but you don't gotta go to corpses 24/7 and risk your life all the time, you can spawn a patrol zone on yourself and enjoy

[brittle zephyr]

@young wren That's just blatantly wrong lol. Legacy Cera and Utah are probably the strongest strategy-wise. Both of them have a ridiculous turn radius and can easily ass-ride stuff to death. Even a Carno in the hands of the right player can become dangerous fast, not to mention a duo of either of the 3.
I personally haven't gotten the chance to play Hordetest Maia yet, but I see a lot of people complaining that they can just run down every other playable due to incredibely stam and speed.

I'm an admin on a Legacy server that focuses on PvP, literally the most common mid-tiers I see are Cera, Carno and Utah and the fights I get to witness...oml

[golden coral]

With or without alt turn on?

[young wren]

the context is different. In legacy, it is turn radius and skill. in evrima, its skill. and in legacy all of theese get hitkill OR 4 screen with 3-4 bites

[slim dragon]

There's skill involved in legacy now ?

[brittle zephyr]

Without. Alt-turn is cheap

[brittle zephyr]

But you mentioned Legacy in your post so

[golden coral]

So, you're not having the actual game balance then. Which means the other guy is correct in the assesment of the playables.

[brittle zephyr]

But he said that Legacy Cera, Carno and Utah ain't strong, which is just incorrect lol

[golden coral]

Granted, carno was always good, cera less so, and utah not really anything special.

[golden coral]

Even with alt turn on?

[brittle zephyr]

Why we bringing alt-turn into this again?

[golden coral]

Because that determines if the balance is accurate to official or not. And because you mentioned turn radius and "assriding" as things that made them good.

But if that does not apply with alt turn on, then it is not the official and thus the "accurate" or "intended" balance

[brittle zephyr]

Oh I personally despise ass-riding, just to make that clear

[golden coral]

I'm not claiming otherwise. Just saying alt turn on is how Legacy is balanced.

[brittle zephyr]

Ye ye, just wanted to make sure

Uno momento, I'll get back to you asap

[golden coral]

Hence, if his claim is accurate for when alt turn is on, the claim is closer to how the balance was meant, and maybe better to go on than the results from a server without alt on. Not that it really matters anyway, Evrima is not Legacy and what was back there and then has no relevance here and now.

[brittle zephyr]

Yeah I get that point and do agree if put this way

Didn't consider alt-turn since I lowkey forgot that it's a thing in Legacy

However if HT Maia can run down a full stam Carno, then something is def off balance-wise, imo

Again, I haven't tested HT Maia yet due to not having time, so I can only go off other people's stories

[golden coral]

It does seem odd, especially since carno isnt really the "run and weave into forest" escape style

But same, cant play for now, so just going by others words too

[brittle zephyr]

Yeah exactly. Carno usually, if injured too much, just goes in a straight line while avoiding forests or any type of "dodge and weave" terrain, so if a Maia can catch up with said Carno, something is def off

I suppose speed would be fine, but stam? Idk about that

[neon willow]

It almost doesn't even matter, because if the intended balance is that the mid tiers completely overshadow most to all of the small tiers, what will end up happening is that people will stop playing small tiers in favor for the superior mid tiers. Small tiers need to be viable in the game alongside mid tiers (note: viable means "can survive" not "win battle to the death"). If smalls cant at least escape mid tiers, why would you bother playing them?

[leaden remnant]

@faint timber it should stun you

it stunned me as a teno

[faint timber]

I was teno 70-60 headbutted by adult nothing happened and I hit the head of 1 tonum dılo while I was playing maı, he did not eat stun again.

[crimson crater]

it dosent stun

[faint timber]

I think you should be stunned. After all, 3.8 tons of animal kicks you.

[crimson crater]

yea maybe, that attack is slow and can only be used while stationary anyway. fair compensation

[leaden remnant]

bruh

stunned me before as a teno

[halcyon skiff]

@dawn falcon
Yes yes yes #balance-feedback message if cerato bacteria vomiting got a stunlock cooldown shoving should also get a stunlock cooldown. I’m more able to scramble to my feet after getting knocked down to avoid a stomp than I am after puking and feeling absolutely terrible…

[dusky surge]

it already has a stun cooldown. the issue with cerato was that it didn't have a cooldown

also a 5-10 second cooldown on stuns for specifically maia is a hugely unfair downside, given that every other creature has no such stun cooldow

[haughty grotto]

@supple karma bruh aren't scavenger ai disabled now on HT?

They announced this

[supple karma]

I have no clue, all I know is I got attacked by the tiny bird ai's the first time, they ate the fish out of my mouth while attacking me mid flight. The second time, since I was already damaged they just killed me after a few hits. They didn't show up until I had the food in my mouth so I'd assume they're scavengers

[dusky surge]

@lucid reef nothing to do with maia, it's everything to do with how long carno's knockdown animation is

its absurdly long for carno for no real good reason

knockdowns/stuns have timers dependent on the species being stunned, not the species stunning

same applies to things like vomit

[lucid reef]

regardless, I've witnessed ceras (for example) getting hit several times within a span of a minute and get knocked fully down to the ground. watched as a deino bystander. It's like a chain of stuns, and not even multiple carno charges can stun repeatedly like that

[slender lion]

The people who voted no on my dryo suggestion yall mad

[dusky surge]

i love dryo but i dont want it to be designated a glorified translator

[slender lion]

Reread my suggestion "Speaks to only the people grouped with"

[dusky surge]

i still want them to actually work on the burrows and give it its own thing to do besides just translate

[slender lion]

And more colors

[dusky surge]

i did, but i personally dont know about it

more colours is based as hell wont lie

poor dryo is so limited compared to other smalls

[worthy steeple]

i like that idea ngl ahah

[slender lion]

thank u

[ashen glade]

@tulip reef maia's kick is actually fairly strong, it's just slow and you have to be standing still to use it. i used it to kill many ceratos, tho having it stun too would be nice. the shove does deal damage, just not as much as the stomp and kick as it's meant to be a stunning attack, something that allows the animal to line up a much stronger attack. the quadrupedal stance is very bad tho and i hope it ends up getting some updates

[tulip reef]

I heard shove doesnt do damage, but if it does, ok its fine 😄 And the back kick does not feel strong, maybe the back kick should do more damage then the stomp. Thanks for your feedback.

[cosmic pelican]

The shove does 50 damage only, it tickles haha

But maia more than makes up for it with the 350dmg stomp

[ashen glade]

i prefer the front focus attacks maia has since teno is mainly the rear attack animal. gives fighting more flavor if animals do somewhat different things

[ashen glade]

exactly. and the shove attack is literally just a shove. that's not gonna do a whole lot of damage in real life. if it was a full on push or perhaps a stomp that shoots forward instead of straight down i could understand the idea of it hurting more, but maia just flexes the arms forward from a resting position into a more upward position, which would never apply much force anyway, let alone gravely injure an animal

Also, I think the kick being good at swatting away small dinos is a good idea. Good damage mixed with knockback would help it defend the rear a bit more without it being as punishing as teno

Probably not an attack I'd have fully flatten an animal but merely push it back and stagger it

But the full back kick, both feet in the air horse kick, should hurt and should knock animals prone

[steep echo]

#balance-feedback message
Dryo shouldn't be made into a herd seeker. No amount of 'pet' lifestyle, or 'translator' lifestyle or 'support' lifestyle will make it more played and will actually detract from its species purpose. It will show to the players that the devs agree with some of the community it is useless

Its a tiny tier generalist (burrow in 2025 god please hear my prayers) with the highest agility and capable of preserving itself against most predators through evasion or combat

unless its up against an omniraptor, then they roll a die to determine if they pinned you or not

[golden coral]

I would argue, that dryo can and should be a "social" and helpful critter (I think it can at least see a night unlike the other herbis or omnis so, theres a point). But this should be done by letting dryo live everywhere, eating other herbis food, having all of that, or most of it on the diet. Or perhaps letting it treat all non diet food as sanc shrooms to a degree, so it can be "fine" everywhere, at all times. Thus, you can be social and follow a player or herd of your choice without diet worrries (maybe patrols already do or mitigate this, Ive not been able to play lately, so dont know).

[steep echo]

The addition of patrols have created a lot of "pseudo-pzs" where identical food you need are in areas you have no business in being in. I think this is just because there's not a huge variety between herbivore preferences

But dryosaurus does need to be prepared to ground itself in an area once its built a small burrow network, given the time and likely stamina it'll take to prepare a home like that

[viscid mica]

@versed rune while I agree carno needs a buff it most certainly is not free food

[crimson crater]

it kinda is

[cosmic pelican]

Even the best carno players struggle vs 2 gallis lmao

[crimson crater]

yea the weight change should get reverted imo

[undone hollow]

are tenos out of control strong?

[hasty coyote]

tbh, thats a bit more of gali being strong than carno being weak. Even ceras can get absolutely shredded by a group of galis.

[cosmic pelican]

Then omni and dilo are way too strong as well

Both of them can shred a carno in a duo

[glossy elbow]

dilo rn yeah
omni not really

[cosmic pelican]

2 good bleed pounces either kill the carno outright, or leave it on deaths door

you can also just bite it to death

[hasty coyote]

yeah, they are. Omni has the funny pin and bucking is now HEAVILY in omni's favor. though carno also still has its bleed vulnerability, which should be removed now that its smaller.
dilo are also def op because their clones are balanced around you being able to hit them to destroy them, but you can't as they will always hit you first.

[cosmic pelican]

omnis grapple got nerfed in the HT

you need a minimum of 3 omnis to pin a healthy carno

But 2 bleed pounces still hurt a lot for it, so it didnt really help

[leaden remnant]

raptors not anymoer

if you're a good carno you now have zero issues with 2 raptors

however dilos...

[crimson crater]

yes raptors aren’t OP anymore

[hasty coyote]

is that confirmed? I have heard about it but havent seen it. If its true then thats pretty good. Now they just need to fix carno's bleed multipliers and fix bucking to be more fair for both sides

[leaden remnant]

yes and no

well theyy are great and suck at the same time

[crimson crater]

suck at what

[leaden remnant]

biting

they're forced to only pin which is boring

they were too good at pinning and too bad at dealing meaningful damage via bites

now they're good at pinning and still too bad at dealing meaningfun damage via bites

[hasty coyote]

exactly

[cosmic pelican]

Yes Hypno told us

[hasty coyote]

oh neat, thats actually great then

[versed rune]

https://tenor.com/view/gus-fring-elevator-stare-gus-fring-stare-gif-14122607659986748641

Waiting for custom stats

[crimson crater]

sure but it’s not that big of a weakness. omni was borderline op before there’s no denying that

[crimson crater]

i hope you don’t make carno 3T

[leaden remnant]

it was too good and too bad

[crimson crater]

too bad? no

[leaden remnant]

too bad at biting things and too good at pinning

[crimson crater]

a little yes

[leaden remnant]

needed to be worse at pinning and better at biting things

[crimson crater]

true

[leaden remnant]

cant only be used by pinning it's gotta have other choices

[versed rune]

I wouldn’t, the max I would ever consider is 2.2 tons

But that’s only if everything smaller than it got upgraded by a little bit too

Realistically speaking 1800-2K works well

[sage marsh]

[crimson crater]

valid

[steep echo]

I've heard rumours that galli got shadow nerfed on HT

something about its agility and, by extension, its capacity to do running kicks instead of stand-still kicks in turnfights

[crimson crater]

#balance-feedback message @wraith relic cera dosent work defensively

it’s best defense is good offense if yk what i’m getting at

[dusky surge]

except that makes absolutely no sense for the animal it's supposed to be

given it's meant to stay close to a specific and small area, you'd think that imply that the best defense should be a strong defense lmao

[crimson crater]

yea you’d think that but it’s horrible at doing so, unless you give it some sort of compensation it’s not gonna work

lmfaoo

[dusky surge]

it gets a 50% damage resist thats pretty compensative

[crimson crater]

not really, especially when fighting opponents that have nearly as much hp

also that’s only on corpses specifically, not good enough compensation

[dusky surge]

that's what im talking bout though, its supposed to be defensive over a corpse, that's the point

its not defending its food if its running 50 meters away to chase down some dibble

[crimson crater]

what if it isn’t near a corpse, how will it defend itself

[dusky surge]

regular bites, its high agility, its decent speed,' bacteria, forests, water, its passive bleed res

[crimson crater]

that won’t really help in many matchups

“decent speed” lmao

[dusky surge]

Which ones lol

[crimson crater]

teno, carno, raptors, a dilo etc

[dusky surge]

It helps with all of those, wdym. Besides maybe the dilo, who is generally difficult to counter as dilo regardless

[crimson crater]

nah it dosent

[dusky surge]

I guess if I say Maia isn’t that strong it isn’t too lol

[crimson crater]

tenos can follow u in forests, water is an incredibly unreliable and risky escape route

[crimson crater]

funny

[dusky surge]

Water still works and gives you an adequate advantage, your agility allows you to avoid kicks from the teno, bites still work to apply bacteria, etc

Frankly, I find it still strange that charge bite is one of the most free, easy and least committal options in the game with absolutely zero penalty

Besides being loud I guess

[crimson crater]

water is extremely situational why even mention it at that point lmao.
sure i can avoid some kicks but the teno can out stam me

[dusky surge]

How is it situational when it’s actively part of your survival strategy

[crimson crater]

yea which is why the old animation it did should be brought back instead

[crimson crater]

right, i guess we are gonna forget that deinos exists

[dusky surge]

People justifying not using swimming on the animal which actively is supposed to defend itself by swimming because deino exists are bizarre to me

[crimson crater]

according to what

[dusky surge]

Yea. Deino exists. Don’t wanna run that risk? Run the risk of fighting your threat on land and potentially dying.

If you wanna leave out a core part of it’s survival plan because of deino, expect more death

[crimson crater]

it should be able to defend itself on land, not be a walking happy meal without a corpse.

[crimson crater]

dude are u gonna elaborate on how it’s ceras core part of survival to use waters?

[dusky surge]

It can and would even with a slowdown charge bite lmao

[crimson crater]

no

you have no clue of what you’re talking abt lmao

cera needs the speed to dodge and weave, granted it ain’t even that fast rn

[dusky surge]

Devs gave it a fast swim speed, high swim stam, the only aquatic alt-bite of any non pure semi-aquatic, and in concept art and dossier, it is shown and mentioned using water to escape larger threats

It’s not even context clues it’s actively explicit

[crimson crater]

so does teno to an extent. but it can stand it’s ground just fine why?

it has a jump to evade threats why

[dusky surge]

Because unlike cerato, it actually does so defensively

[crimson crater]

it has good stamina aswell, helps it escape stuff

[crimson crater]

so teno can brawl and have good escape options. but when cera does the same it’s a problem? alright

[dusky surge]

Teno also doesn’t have a way to instantly double its health

Nor does it have bleed resist

Or the ability to ignore damage while eating

[crimson crater]

it does have more health though

[dusky surge]

Or bacteria

[crimson crater]

it does have high bleed damadge, good dps, stuns on attacks, etc

[dusky surge]

Or an attack that does nearly as much as charge bite

[crimson crater]

technically it does

[dusky surge]

It literally does not lol

[crimson crater]

the kick stuns which allows for a follow up

[dusky surge]

Ceras bite vomits which can allow for more follow ups, easier

[crimson crater]

no, it dosent completely immobilize your opponent and at best you’ll get in a tail base shot. besides they changed how vomit locks work you can no longer get in multiple bites lmao. it’s clear to me that you know nothing about how cerato works

[dusky surge]

Cera just can’t stop winning

[dusky surge]

what’s there to know lmao, it has the combat depth of a kiddie pool

Also you absolutely can get in multiple bites

[crimson crater]

not at all

[dusky surge]

Do you know how vomit animations work?

[crimson crater]

once you bite your opponent it cancels the animation

ignorance lmao, they changed how it works recently

also you have yet to explain why teno gets to have good escape options while being able to brawl but cera isn’t allowed to cuz “its a scavanger and should be weak!”

[dusky surge]

Had to be pretty damn recent because I played cerato last patch and there was no such luxury

[crimson crater]

there is

[dusky surge]

I have never said, nor do I subscribe to the idea that “it’s a scav and should be weak!”

I think it’s a scav and should play therefor like a scav

[crimson crater]

implications.
like u suggesting that ceratos charged bite slowing it down. it would heavily affecting most of its matchups forcing to flee instead of standing it’s ground.

[glossy elbow]

you sure i haven't seen that either?

[crimson crater]

yea i am 100% sure

[dusky surge]

Not a glorified ez mode hunter for people to throw themselves at Maia and then complain that the “hold RMB in a straight line” strat doesn’t work against it.

I’ve seen ceras beat maias and it’s really not that hard when the cera is competent and doesn’t rely on the fact its kit has been overturned for months

[crimson crater]

has it ever struck you that maybe, just maybe the maia’s had no clue on how to use it?

[dusky surge]

Give it a charged alt-bite. Allow it to cancel the charge into an alt, applying the damage and bacteria multiplier

Would provide a strong defensive option to compensate for slowdown

[crimson crater]

charged alt bite is useless

[crimson crater]

against what? a dryo

cera is fine as it is, all it needs is that old slide back

@tribal idol 👶

[floral plank]

lmao

[tribal idol]

...

[crimson crater]

u literally downvoted the feedback

lmao

[floral plank]

cera isn't fine but slowing down it's charged attack ain't it

[crimson crater]

i suggested a nerf to it, did u miss that

[floral plank]

old slide ain't it either funny enough i'm more on @dusky surge side than anything else

[crimson crater]

his suggestion would make cera free calories

[glossy elbow]

i think it'd be fine if it both slowed cera down but was decently stronger then it currently is making the slow down worth it

[crimson crater]

yea but it’s a bad idea without any good compensation

[glossy elbow]

yeah i can agree with that

[floral plank]

Me personally I'd go more into that corpse bully trope, just like how it has dmg reduction give it more dmg and bile scaling on the size of the body. As for stuns the solution to this is once again on a corpse give it stun/knockdown resistance. Seeing a cera be hyper aggressive and defensive over a body would be more interesting than seeing ceras running around as brainless as old carno used to be. Of course this couldn't be done without some nerfs as current cera is too strong as a generalist with no weaknesses, I mean it has everything going for it.

[crimson crater]

fair enough just saying that the charged bite shouldn’t be completely useless

[floral plank]

I agree

having a slow or clunky attack is not fun nor engaging

[crimson crater]

exactly

[dusky surge]

Old slide is gross as hell lol

[floral plank]

@dusky surge what's your thoughts?

[crimson crater]

what’s wrong with it

[dusky surge]

It already has stun resist on a body

For instance, a Maia can no longer knockdown a corpse buff cerato

[crimson crater]

knockdown resistance not stun resist lel

[viscid mica]

If your free food as a carno the only thing I can say is respectfully a skill issue it doesn’t take much to be able to handle anything below a cera for predators and dibble is the wall for herbs everything else should be entirely so able while not easy for all certainly not free

[crimson crater]

more like skill issue if u can’t kill a carno

too tired to debate abt this

[viscid mica]

Carno isn’t in a terrible place it’s not in a great one but certainly not in a bad one I see tons of carnos you want a animal in a bad place and is actually unplayable and goes unplayed pachy

[dusky surge]

Lmao good point

At least as Carno I can run away from that which threatens me

[cosmic pelican]

Unless its a maia

But thats another can of worms lmao

[viscid mica]

Talking current role out not horde test

[cosmic pelican]

Thats why I said this

[viscid mica]

What you running from if not a cera or angry stego

I can understand not wanting to face dibbles if your not a super confident carno but entire rest of the roaster is free game

Anything less that large packs shouldn’t be a threat

[cosmic pelican]

Ive seen top 5% carno players struggle vs 2 gallis, so depends

Carno needs more cc tbh

100dmg per charge is negligible, especially if it doesnt stun

[viscid mica]

I’d ask how but honestly galli hitbox is fincky and small and canto bite box ain’t big enough for all that angst so that’s fair

[tribal idol]

I personally think holding right click should put carno into the charge stance, and then you can press left click while running in charge stance to do a attack that can insta knock down dilos at least

would get rid of holding right click to win, and buff carnos cc abilities

[cosmic pelican]

I got a fight clipped if you wanna see

[viscid mica]

The problem is how op it was when it had stun

[cosmic pelican]

Make it weight based

[viscid mica]

Na I can see it like I said hitboxes in that fight just ain’t in your favour

[cosmic pelican]

Would make more sense too

[viscid mica]

Though who rated them top 5% is debatable

[viscid mica]

Like what if it’s 2x weight knock down?

[cosmic pelican]

I feel like someone who spends several hours a day on an admin server just practicing would be a good player

[viscid mica]

Who knows

[cosmic pelican]

I cant understand what you mean sorry

Its 2 am and my brain is fuzzy

[viscid mica]

If it’s double the targets weight

[cosmic pelican]

Ah ok

[tribal idol]

I would say more then that, becasue with that, adult carno would knock down 650 kg, so dilo wouldnt get knocked

unless it would stun, which ig could work

[viscid mica]

I’m still noting I’m for a buff to there over all weight into the 1700/1800 category

Also noting that in that same regard going head to head with a pachy as a carno full speed should be a death scentence… note anything under 2T going head to head with a pachy should be a death scentence but that’s just my side track of #makepachygreatagain

[tribal idol]

I doubt that will happen, it was nerfed to 1.3 tons due to it being impossible to balance to be a small game hunter without destroying everything else in the game

[keen plover]

Yeah carno is decent in packs. Atrocious solo though. Omni & dilo are more effective "small game" hunters

[viscid mica]

It does need to step into the 1600 category again as someone said it shouldn’t be getting bullied by cera as hard as it is

[viscid mica]

It’s the ability to turn and accelerate imo mainly

Carno got smaller but kept its inability to rapidly turn

[keen plover]

Honestly? even maia is a better small game "hunter" lol

[viscid mica]

They’re like cheetahs

[viscid mica]

90% of the herb roaster are top tier small game hunters

They specialize in child abuse

You can’t even same I’m wrong! We all know it

[keen plover]

Carno just needs to be an effective omni and dilo hunter and I think it will be good.

[viscid mica]

I think carno will be in a good place when they can duel cera and it be down to individual skill on who wins primarily

[keen plover]

lol

[viscid mica]

I can still hear the galli calls

I mean if we being honest once more of the real mid tiers drop and apex’s a carno buff won’t be game breaking

[floral plank]

carno being added into a game with most of the rooster being similar or smaller size made it come off as way stronger than what it would be with larger competitors

[viscid mica]

Exactly

It’s more of a big body small strength kinda Dino

It was the definition of a high school bully but for Dino’s all bark little bite

The moment allo drops the mid tier game is already cooked

[floral plank]

Carno was dominate but it wasn't unbeatable good tenos and a good utah pack could take it down

[viscid mica]

Exactly

[floral plank]

I mean it felt like everything back then was much more lethal than now

[viscid mica]

Ya it got nerfed to the abyss for being too strong

I feel like they can give it some might back especially with what’s expected to drop coming year

[floral plank]

utah packs could run a server, a good group of tenos, pachys used to be something to fear back in plains. Nothing scarier than running it down plains and pachys come out of a bush to jump you

[crimson crater]

carno is underperforming simply as that

[viscid mica]

Envirma pachys never really that strong just a large number and the amount of breaks you’d get was a pain

Then people realized how bad they where in duos or solo

[viscid mica]

Absolutely but not to the degree of joining the 2 currently in the free food category

[crimson crater]

yea

[crimson crater]

U6 pachy.

[floral plank]

true the stun was also scary

[viscid mica]

Ye but they weren’t devastatingly strong

They didn’t need the stun thou

[floral plank]

Pachy got nerfed and forgotten

[viscid mica]

The breaks are enough and I will never not say pachy head to head should he a game Ender for anything under 2T

[crimson crater]

they were. a pachy could solo a carno back then

[viscid mica]

Excuse you what

[crimson crater]

yep you heard me

[floral plank]

I forgor about stun locks

[crimson crater]

the stuns made it disgustingly op

now it’s rock bottom unfortunately

[viscid mica]

The stun lock didn’t last long at all thou

It was nerfed out pretty fast

[crimson crater]

it was nerfed a whole update later

[viscid mica]

Na it didn’t last that long pachys woulda been WAY MORE popular

I don’t even think you can find many videos of perma stun pachy

[tribal idol]

pachy was like that for around 2-3 months, and there were a lot of pachy players in that time

[viscid mica]

Swear it wasn’t that long. Like I swear the ability to perma stun as a solo got booted thought a group could still do it

[tribal idol]

being able to do it solo lasted that long, it was one update, and back then the updates took 2-3 months

I remember because I went around as pachy then and solo's like 2-3 carnos at a time

[cosmic pelican]

U6 lasted like half a year

[hasty coyote]

You do realize the stun lock was there since pachy’s creation right? It was always able to stun carnos. People just never realized its potential until that point. Iirc there were some changes to other dinos that made them weaker and pachy got buffed, so then it was really noticeable. I used to abuse it for so long lmao.

[cosmic pelican]

But pachy could slap carnos around in u5 as well

[tribal idol]

yea, pachy was very good then

[cosmic pelican]

Pretty sure the only buff pachy got in u6 was a slight amount of bleed resistance lmao

[viscid mica]

I do remember U5

But I guess no one felt pachy potential for U6 till later half or the ones who did hid it cuz like I said there are essentially no videos of that

[hasty coyote]

Iirc that was 6.5, when it also got its stuns removed. I believe update 5 was when they reverted a previous nerf to its turning while charging a ram.

[cosmic pelican]

https://youtu.be/AIx8jDtPTM8?si=B-d6DPwUu1kPneCs
Here you go, 12 minutes of a singular pachy bullying carnos

So yeah pachy was absolutely busted

[viscid mica]

K but my point stands for A not many existing and B how long it took someone to post one when I was clearly making a challenge of it

[floral plank]

leg fracture made you so slow too, you were already dead at that point

[versed rune]

In hindsight this really wasn’t too busted I won’t lie

Those carnos were just goofballs

[viscid mica]

Not saying anything isn’t true just it wasn’t as big of a problem as people say

[versed rune]

A decent carno back then could just as easily snipe pachys

[viscid mica]

^

[crimson crater]

me when the pachy simply dodges and stuns it:

[versed rune]

Now carno AND pachy are bad! 😃

[hasty coyote]

Oh how I miss those days, good hit registration, amazing sounds, and bullied carnos. But yeah 100% op in hindsight

[versed rune]

That’s why u ambush it

[sonic flame]

Pachy’s sounds havent changed, have they?

[viscid mica]

Don’t think so

They are the same as OG legacy

[sonic flame]

Nah they’re not legacy’s

But I mean since that vid

Pretty sure Pachy has had the same vocals since update 4

[crimson crater]

eh carno isn’t an ambusher and why should carno get destroyed in a brawl with something not even a fifth of its size.
pachy should fracture and then run like how it’s intended to play

[viscid mica]

The different is so minimal if you notice it that’s impressive

[sonic flame]

There was a short stint early on where it was different but I think that was about a week

[viscid mica]

It’s it’s fracture mechanic was consistent enough for that

You’ll get 100 body breaks per leg break even if you hit the leg clean on side profile

[versed rune]

1. every predator is an ambusher
2. only reason carno isnt spec'd into being an assassin in the current game is because they just refuse to acknowledge where its true purpose lies

[hasty coyote]

No, they really couldn’t. I have fought good carnos at that time, they landed the ambush and everything. Didn’t matter because I got a leg fracture and they never landed a single hit again. If spotted them, I would have been able to just parry the charge and fracture them while taking 0 damage.

Tho I do agree, those carnos in the vid were awful, pachy was NOT ok.

[versed rune]

when it first released, pachy was too strong i will say

but its fracture damage was weakened and after that it was pretty balanced

[viscid mica]

I mean carno was a high school bully on steroids big and mean not exactly strong

[hasty coyote]

It’s 1 call got changed

[crimson crater]

sure literally everything benefits from ambushes but that dosent mean that they all should have the same boring play style. variety is better.
2. carno is a pursuit hunter

[versed rune]

but they just kept nerfing and nerfing pachy

[floral plank]

variety that's crazy

[versed rune]

again, i dont like labeling things as "ambush" or "pursuit"

[floral plank]

yet everyone calls it a small game hunter

[versed rune]

cuz it lierally depends on what you are hunting

[viscid mica]

Carno is meant for A small things and B scaring things into going away

[versed rune]

like

rex is an "ambusher" if its hunting a galli, but it could much more easily "pursue" a stego

[crimson crater]

yea that’s a bad thing but all i’m saying that carno ain’t an ambusher, in the isle at least

[sonic flame]

I think that was part of those super early changes, when Pachy didnt have the core layers from legacy

[viscid mica]

Look at the carnos build irl a lot of muscle big chunky boy and then look at that mfing jaw and tell me I’m wrong

[hasty coyote]

Nah, the perma stuns were VERY op, current leg fracture is still op. Only reason pachy is weak atm because they had to nerf it so many times trying to counteract it.

[floral plank]

it's a plains pursuit hunter but can also have the addition of being an ambusher

[viscid mica]

Like if hulk was baby face

To be clear no one wants stun back

[hasty coyote]

Idk, all I remember it it had its 1 call changed in like 4.5 or 5

[viscid mica]

Only things I’d say stun for pachy would be ok for is anything 200kg or smaller than it

[versed rune]

idk man i would always play with a friend of mine in carno duo, we would wipe mixherds of pachys and tenontos by simply being coordinated. granted, usually over a period of 10 to 20 minutes

[crimson crater]

look at herrera compared to omni for example.
one is a strict ambush hunter and the other is a pack oriented bleeder that whittles down its opponents

[viscid mica]

10-20 is pretty good honestly

For a slow burn fight 30 minutes is fair game

[floral plank]

considering that all the small game it's "supposed" to be hunting is all more maneuverable than it, ambushing is more valuable than getting your ankles broken

[hasty coyote]

I’d be fine with the stuns if they were limited to fractures, but there’s no reason pachy should stun dinos that are nearly 4x its size while they are completely crippled.

[versed rune]

but herrera is also smaller, and it has a hyper~specific way of hunting. carno and cera arent all that different, they chase things down and then fight them. the style by which you do so is just different

like the base principle of "big theropod chasing down its prey" applies to allo, alberto, cerato, AND carno

the method is just different and the approach varies from prey to prey

[viscid mica]

Agreed counter argument give pachy crazy damage buff in head to head moving collision make its one purpose in life actual server a purpose

If alberto is anything less then pseudo apex imma cry

[versed rune]

i mean

[crimson crater]

alberto is a mid tier

[viscid mica]

I miss my speedy 2/3 Rex

[versed rune]

alberto is a size below sucho and acro for sure

[viscid mica]

By who’s standard

[crimson crater]

weight

[versed rune]

but people also get too hyper focused on arbitrary "tiers" that dont exist conceptually anymore

like enough of this "tenonto is a pseudo mid tier" crap

its a damn mid tier lol

[hasty coyote]

Most people at that time played pachy horribly. Hence why it took so long to get nerfed. If you want to see what pachy used to be able to do, see the image: (my head was light red originally)
however I do agree pachy required good skill to get to the point of being op, but that doesn’t excuse how op it was when mastered.

[versed rune]

i can agree with that

[viscid mica]

I mean 3.3T puts it on the far heavier side of mid tiers

[versed rune]

i had some moments where i popped off with pachy

a few pachys could beat a bad carno into a pulp

[crimson crater]

it’s in the same tier as carno, allo maia etc

[viscid mica]

Ya I have 4 tiers psudo basically means it’s stronger over all than all all mid tiers only being weaker than apex’s

[viscid mica]

It’s far heavier than carno and carno is a glorified mid tier it’s baby face hulk

[versed rune]

i have a horrible feeling that they will downplay sucho similar to how they did with carno

[viscid mica]

I hope not

[crimson crater]

irl or in game?

[viscid mica]

Irl for both reasons

[crimson crater]

carno is as big as an allo wym

[viscid mica]

Carno maxed closer to 1.8/2T alberto 1.9-3.3 1.9 was on the far lighter side

[crimson crater]

eh still

[hasty coyote]

That would end up like a previous iteration of pachy where it did more damage depending on how fast it was. That just made pachy better at bullying things, but worse at actually defending itself.

[crimson crater]

all mid tiers

[versed rune]

true, the largest allo specimens are slightly larger than carno

[viscid mica]

Allo varied from 1.1 on the very small to 5.5 lol

[versed rune]

allo has crazy size variation

[viscid mica]

Def not as big

[crimson crater]

what’s that question mark for?

[versed rune]

ok 5 ton allo is NOT a thing lol

that's insane

[delicate hinge]

in terms of hight yeah, but not weight. atleast the species the isle is using

5 ton allo doesnt exist

[viscid mica]

I mean unless they make bone breaks other than leg ones have far more serious effects

[versed rune]

only way 5 ton allo exists is if you call saurophaganax allosaurus lol

[stark knoll]

Carno is estimated at around 1.8-2.1 tons, allo is generally put at around 3 for the large ones

[floral plank]

add more fracture effects

[versed rune]

mhm

also there's like 40+ allo specimens and only one carno, albeit a pretty complete one

[delicate hinge]

i think the biggest reliable allo specimens are 2.7 tons but allosaurus m is 4

[stark knoll]

What website even is that?

[crimson crater]

most allosaurus specimens are around 2T though

[versed rune]

like i said allo has a lot of specimens to choose from

[delicate hinge]

just go in paleo chat, credible people there that can literally give you facts. random websites liek that arent the best

[versed rune]

idk why people always forget averages and individual variation is a thing lol

[viscid mica]

That better

[versed rune]

like

there's bound to be one fatass allo out there, or a jacked one, yknow

[floral plank]

allo got that dibble treatment

[delicate hinge]

yeah but the biggest allo was like 4 tons iirc

[viscid mica]

Allo sitting in 3ton category is fair

[stark knoll]

Yea 5.5T allo isn't a thing

[versed rune]

and crazy size variation in well studied theropods like allosaurus and t rex can also be applied to dinos with less specimens just through basic logic, it doesnt mean ONLY allo and rex have crazy variation

[crimson crater]

2.5T is fair i’d say, that’s your average allo

[viscid mica]

“Top predator” a thing but rare af

[versed rune]

this is the ideal allo weight in isle

[viscid mica]

Still far larger than your average carno sitting far closer to 1.5

[versed rune]

1.5 is below average for carnotaurus

[crimson crater]

what?

carno was around 2.1T irl

[delicate hinge]

wouldn't mind that tbh

[viscid mica]

Carno range 1.1-1.9

[versed rune]

1.1?????

[crimson crater]

1 ton is crazy LOL

[versed rune]

the absolute MINIMUM is 1.3, which would basically mean the thing is starving

[delicate hinge]

1.1 WHAT!!!???

[floral plank]

skeletor carno

[viscid mica]

Yall need another edu link

[crimson crater]

even that might be too low

[delicate hinge]

bro, those sites are not credible

[viscid mica]

Is Google this hard to use

[versed rune]

for the one carno specimen we have, which appears to be fully mature, its estimated weight is 1.8 tons to 2 tons, absolute possible max would be about 2.2

[viscid mica]

A single Google and it shows averages from 1-2T max

Across multiples sources

[delicate hinge]

google isnt reliable for that

[versed rune]

u did not just trust the google AI overview did u?

[delicate hinge]

go to actual people who know what they're saying

[viscid mica]

So museums and institution of research direct websites aren’t reliable for it

I’ll go talk to Tom with his Time Machine and we’ll catch and weigh one

[versed rune]

u also have to look at other things like comparable theropods and how old the study is

[viscid mica]

[delicate hinge]

google has so much misinformation and or outdated estimates that still come up to this day.'

[versed rune]

sature wise, carno is about the same height and length as a large allo, but it is sleeker

[viscid mica]

Yes I’ll agree to this

Carno stands caller more showy

Allo was about that life thou

[versed rune]

therefore based on logic alone it would be comparable to but still lighter than a large allo

[viscid mica]

Carno are glorified bullies not real big prey hunters like allo thou

That’s my whole point they weren’t about that life

[crimson crater]

carno ain’t a small game hunter irl lol

[versed rune]

wait til you hear about titanomachya

[viscid mica]

You can’t look at that tiny ah jaw and tell me otherwise it ain’t believable

[versed rune]

does he know?

[viscid mica]

They where gang bangers fr fr but they ain’t that strong in the 1s

[delicate hinge]

carnos jaw was sturdy and was good for holding prey

[crimson crater]

actually carno got the ideal jaw structure for a strong bite. look at jaguars or hyenas for example

[viscid mica]

Pitbull is where my mind goes

[versed rune]

from a 2021 study

[dusky surge]

well, the issue was that it wasnt the carnos that were the main things suffering

it was teno. dear god pachy made teno invalid

[versed rune]

true pachy was very unfair against teno when it first came out

[viscid mica]

Not saying they ain’t got that ripper but it wasn’t big enough for grabbing chunks out of most big game

[dusky surge]

stun pachy can never return because of teno and cera

[floral plank]

could have buffed teno

crazy concept

[dusky surge]

powercreep manifest

[viscid mica]

Tenos have a 90% chance of being mix packers or straight carnivores now in days I have no sympathy for them

[versed rune]

yeah carno was a grappler, not a rip and tear type. it was basically a battering ram, whatever it was hunting, its skull required a lot of strength to kill it

[dusky surge]

i dont care what teno players do with the animal. i dont care what any player does with their animal. i care if that animal is or isnt ass to play

[viscid mica]

Ye

[versed rune]

tbh i think evidence points to carno hunting small and medium sauropods, ones that have their necks at carno's jaw height

so basically like

magy/amarga size animals

[viscid mica]

I agree to this

[hasty coyote]

Here’s what pachy needs imo:
leg fracture needs to be nerfed, allow dinos to still alt and use most stationary attacks that don’t require legs (like kicking) and slightly decrease the speed nerf. There’s no reason for it to disable alt attacks except to allow pachy to bully things easier. And now that carno is slower, the speed debuff only needs to be like a 0.75 multiplier for pachy to be faster than carno.
Body fracture needs an immediate effect like reduced turning and less stam drain on stationary attacks (mobile attacks and sprinting still cost much more stam). So body fracture helps more with running away, but ain’t as good when the target is standing its ground.
Maybe nerf head fracture damage reduction, it doesn’t need to wipe out half your damage.
Getting n fractured should now stun. Honestly I could see leg fractures causing a knockdown like Herrera but that may be too op.
And now that fractured favor a break and run strategy rather than a break and beat to death, pachy can actually be buffed:
remove pachy’s self stun on missed and hit rams.
Buff pachy’s damage a bit.
Buff pachy’s speed a bit. honestly the 43kph from speed mutations feel much better on it.
And then also fix all the hit reg issues and return the parry mechanic against carno charge and other pachy rams.

Then from there see what needs tweaks, and pachy should be in a much healthier spot. Still able to bully things in a group, but not 1v1 carno levels of bullying.

[viscid mica]

I just don’t like people tryin to act like carnos where running the 1s with mug game hunters like allos

[versed rune]

like, u dont need a big head to grab a sauropod's small head. a big head would make it riskier, and a small head could allow for more precision

also would explain why carno didnt need agility. u dont need agility to catch a small sauropod, you just need to be fast enough to grab it before it can notice you and crush you, hence it being a sprinter

[viscid mica]

Ya I’d thrown some similar suggestions in balance feed awhile back for pachy

I’ve always been a pachy alberto main and want to see them thrive they just need some love

[hasty coyote]

I have been screaming into the void for a while now.

[crimson crater]

the self stun dosent need to be completely removed, it makes it worse at brawling

[versed rune]

i think allo and carno should be rivals but i do agree allo should win in a straight brawl. if carno jumps it however it should be a different story

[viscid mica]

Hopefully we’ll see some love coming update to make it atleast not extremely free food

[versed rune]

compromise: pachy should stun only when it inflicts a full fracture

[viscid mica]

Na the difference is speciality and allo are just way better in the 1s and fighting in terms of build carno should def have a place fighting cera 100%

[hasty coyote]

But pachy is meant to brawl, the issue is with pachy brawling things 4x its size with stun locks and winning. Without the stuns on every hit, and with leg fractures no longer disabling alts, pachy can still be counter attacked without the self stuns.

[versed rune]

i mean

[viscid mica]

It doesn’t need stun fractures just need to mean something

[versed rune]

my take is that cera should have a place fighting carno, allo, AND alberto....

[crimson crater]

yea but the damadge is fine imo, other than that valid

[versed rune]

like, all 4 of those dinos should have interesting fights against each other

[viscid mica]

You take that back

[versed rune]

simply for the sake of "it's cool"

[versed rune]

cant take back facts

[dusky surge]

fractures should just inflict stuns in general

if i fall off a cliff, i should be slightly staggered at the agonising sensation of shattering my femur i think

[viscid mica]

How dare you dam scavenger scum

[versed rune]

look if cerato is basically a honey badger komodo dragon hybrid, it should absolutely be capable of scaring an alberto off of a corpse

[crimson crater]

it definitely should

[viscid mica]

If you want fractures to matter they need effects

Skull - bleed apply from internal bleeding and or effect vision plus extra damage for going head on with a master of head clashing
Body-same idea for bleeding and affect stamina
Leg-stay how it is

[hasty coyote]

It deals 125, 75 on a tap ram. That’s almost as much as 2 or 1 Omni bite respectively. It’s honestly pitiful for an attack that costs that much stam, locks you in a direction, and throws yourself at an enemy. Though if it gets buffed in other ways, like more hp or something, then it can get away with its low damage.

[versed rune]

that doesnt mean cerato can match its strength, but in the real world animals often lose confrontations even when their opponent is smaller, just out of fear of what the animal could do

cerato could mess u up and make u sick
carno could snipe you
allo could maul you
alberto could crush you

[dusky surge]

you see, i just cant agree with that because, yea, the cool factor is there, but the balance factor also needs to exist, and i will constantly reiterate that not every dinosaur consistently exists in the vacuum of being a 100% grown adult specimen

like, i heavily dislike pushing making stuff like allo and alberto feel way weaker to let cerato have its little power fantasy, rather than have cerato kick the ass of a sub allo or sub alberto because by all means it can and should

[viscid mica]

Not exactly they are more corpse defenders but I get your point Alberto’s are meant to be sort of a foresty shorter more nimble Rex

[viscid mica]

I appreciate this

[dusky surge]

if you make it that cerato can beat an adult allosaurus or alberto, then the subs have to suck ass and just not be able to fight basically anything because if a cera, a creature half their weight, has a consistent matchup against their adult state, then the younger states dont stand a chance against one

[versed rune]

thats the problem with this game tho and why so many have issues with it, it handholds certain animals to NEVER lose to certain others, and makes matchups boring and predictable

whats the point in playing cerato ever if allo and alberto just maul it no matter what

its supposed to simulate an ecosystem where anything can be dangerous

not rock paper scissors with dinos

[viscid mica]

Exactly my point a cera shouldn’t be trying to run the 1s with full grown allo or alberto

MAYBE a carno MAYBE but it should be risky

[dusky surge]

because allo and alberto wont always be that perfect 100%, and cerato has its own niche

if you look at the game entirely through the lense of a sandbox brawler where matchups determine what is and isn't worth your time, then by all means, you should be more focused on asking for a sandbox mode then asking for survival changes

allo and alberto cant do what cera does. that motivates me to play cera, because only cera plays like cera

[viscid mica]

^

[dusky surge]

i dont look at who can fight who, because if a cera can fight allo, then allo's gonna feel like ass

[viscid mica]

Everything plays differently you can be god on one and trash on another diversity is important and things having a set place in the ecosystem matters

I Rex should be unmatched by anything less than another apex in raw power and that’s just a fact imo

[crimson crater]

i disagree. i feel like the tiers should flow in better rather than having “this is bigger and should therefore be superior” type balancing. of course this should apply to an extent but you get what i mean. it would just make people play the bigger things because they want power.

besides corpse bullying is a pretty situational thing so i don’t mind, a dilo can beat up a sub teno under normal circumstances, anything can do that but cera being strong despite its size on corpses makes it more fun

[hasty coyote]

Most fractures already have a massive effect, and making bleed a par of the Dino that literally deals 0 bleed damage is kinda useless, and bleed is only good on the offensive, not the defensive.
Head:it reduces vision greatly and HALFS your damage output.
Body: 3x stam drain
Leg: disables most attacks in the game and nearly half’s your speed.

[viscid mica]

Not as much bigger is better as specialty

Like allo are built for the ones they got arms for positioning the body and head for movement and neck control

[crimson crater]

this brings me to another issue.
cera might just be too small for its niche lmao

[dusky surge]

if you challenge cera on corpses, sure, maybe it can have a neck and neck fight with allo, but i was under the implication that this is just base cera picking a fight with an allo it saw because cera wanted a fight

[viscid mica]

It’s niche is actually really solid rn

[floral plank]

it's niche needs a buff besides just dmg reduction imo

[dusky surge]

cera is fine tbh

[viscid mica]

Fair

[floral plank]

for the most part cera is fine

[crimson crater]

oh yea cera should get absolutely destroyed if it goes after an ALLO under normal circumstances

[viscid mica]

Ya cera in a great spot other things just need to be adjusted or added

[dusky surge]

besides some annoying hunting bull which can be resolved by some minor stat swaps here and there

[viscid mica]

Like alberto V Allo should be a good fight for sure

[glossy elbow]

most people will always play things that are strongest anyways imo

[dusky surge]

still think a charged alt-bite would be utterly brutal

i'd love that

also would add more to alt-bite than... hold RMB then press LMB and that's it

[viscid mica]

Acro V any mid tier should be a good fight

[dusky surge]

acro would instantly destroy them

[crimson crater]

yea which is why i feel like the tiers should flow a bit better. kinda like how herrera is decently strong despite its size and can punch up

[dusky surge]

like im not going to sugar coat it, no midtier stands a chance against acro as it's presented

it's less of a fight and more of a glorified drawn out execution of the moron midtier that dared approach

[viscid mica]

Probably gonna sit solidly in the pseudo apex area ya think?

[dusky surge]

idk where the hell it is at this point, all i know is acro will grab the midtier, choke the midtier, the midtier is dead

also i still refuse to acknowledge pseudo apex

[viscid mica]

Fair but this is where I’d say I’d love to see alberto stand up to it in a way as they where kinda in the same space for hunting and the style of fighting would be something it could do

[dusky surge]

alberto would just get absolutely bodied ngl

like if you want to see cool matchups, forget about acro lmao

[viscid mica]

Dunno Alberto had that movement tech based on where it was found and speculating how it hunted it’s not a stretch to say they where skilled fighters for bigger things

I should know I’m Albertan these woods be brutal

Yes that contributes to why I main it

Yes I am bias

[glossy elbow]

i really hope it isn't that easy but considering what was shown in the concept art idk

[viscid mica]

Bro lookin CHUNKY

[dusky surge]

thats cool and all but acro has a grab and choke you to death move so literally one landed hit = death for alberto

[hasty coyote]

Here’s why things are generally balanced around “tiers”
Size generally dictates hp and speed with notable exceptions. So, if you were to balance a smaller dino to contend with larger dinosaurs, you would have to give it insane damage for its size to account for the hp difference. Which then means anything around its size stands no chance because of how high the damage is. So it then has to be either much slower than things it’s size (and this act like it’s a tier above without the hp of a tier above) or it just destroys everything similar in size.

[viscid mica]

This is why I wanna see more of what’s up with alberto : (

[hasty coyote]

Hence why the general way to make a smaller dino punch up, is to just group up as the smaller dino.

[crimson crater]

yea i did say that it should apply but that i feel like a cerato taking on an allo on a corpse ain’t too bad

[viscid mica]

Also that looks like more of a successful ambush side profile thing than something your just getting casually in a fight with a faster Dino build like Alberto’s

[viscid mica]

I’d agree

Corpses should be cera safe space

[hasty coyote]

Here’s the thing, unless allo deals less than 130 a bite, allo just out dps a cera on a body. That’s not even accounting for its potential pin

[viscid mica]

I feel like cera fighting when larger mid tiers drop should be da more reliant on bodies otherwise they ain’t chasing the bigger boys

[viscid mica]

Well see when the bigger boys drop if a small buff to body advantage is needed

Make cera over all scarier to attack on bodies

Could help with making dilo and raptor packs less brave on body camping cera

[crimson crater]

cerato has like 2600 hp on a corpse, it will also most likely have a higher damadge output and faster dps, it’s gonna be doable unless the allo has omnis rick click of death

[hasty coyote]

But then that goes to what I previously said, cera would just be unstoppable compared to anything within its size tier the moment it gets near a body. It’s already MUCH stronger by a body, does it need to become super man the moment it smells rotting flesh lol.

[viscid mica]

Won’t lie we do gotta realize a lot of stuff wil change once real mid tiers and apex’s drop

[crimson crater]

yea that’s kinda it’s whole thing. you can just not fight a cerato on a corpse

pretty situational ability

[hasty coyote]

assuming allo has 3000 hp, cera needs 20 bites to kill it.
assuming allo has the same bite speed, it would need 130 damage a bite to kill cera in the same amount of bites
assuming allo has a regular 1-second bite speed (so 130x1.5), it would need 195 bite damage to kill cera in the same time.

[crimson crater]

it would take the cerato less than 10 bites. why would the cerato use its regular bite lol, besides you also have to take bacteria into account which gives the cera a free bite

[hasty coyote]

except when I'm a defensive animal. Like you thought ceras were brutal against diablo now? Imagine killing one cera in a pack, and the rest get a major buff you just die immediately. You either run from the body and take constant bites, or die trying to stand your ground

[hasty coyote]

because why would allo allow cera to get pot shots on it, instead of just face tanking cera off the body?

[crimson crater]

not really, you can slowly back away without completely making yourself vulnerable

[hasty coyote]

and then you just get mauled by 3 buffed ceras because body buff go brrrrr

[crimson crater]

the real question is, why would the cerato facetank it? it can just dodge and weave trading it

[crimson crater]

as what in your hypothesis

bro it takes 2 seconds to get out of the range

[hasty coyote]

because if it moves too far away, it loses the buff? and why would an allo not just keep running after the cera to either force it off the corpse or force a face tank?

[crimson crater]

too far yea but the distance of it makes it possible, will be kinda hard though

[dusky surge]

now here's the issue

allo has pin, and has been shown to be able to pin cerato

[hasty coyote]

not if you're something like diablo, even if it only takes 2 seconds, thats 2 seconds where there are ceras who can maul you with hp and your proposed damage buff

[crimson crater]

buff cera on a corpse nerf base cera

[hasty coyote]

that too, I'm only not taking that into account because "maybe corpse buff gives pin resistance" by the logic of all the other buffs they have been proposing for it

[versed rune]

not rlly, update 3 utah could fight a carno, and it felt fair

main reason it felt fair was because if 1 utah killed a carno, the carno was bad enough to die to it

all i want is for larger animals to take brainpower to use and not be handheld to victory because the weight discrepency said so

[crimson crater]

yea? they will at best get 4 bites in

[dusky surge]

oh well that's fine because that's already how it is

maias are losing to solo dilos and ceras im pretty sure we'll be fine

[crimson crater]

btw diablo can walk backwards without exposing its flanks so yea

[versed rune]

so the same should apply to carnivores vs carnivores, a good cerato that knows its strengths should thrash the average m1 spamming allo

[hasty coyote]

I believe you're really underselling what ceras can do

[hasty coyote]

and overselling how fast diablo can back up in spar mode

[crimson crater]

i haven’t had a problem running away from them

[viscid mica]

I mean skill do in fact matter just cuz dino stronk don’t mean your good at it

[versed rune]

thats why stego was so infuriating in updates 4 to 6, they were super easy to not die to but they attracted the dumbest of dumb players because you quite literally COULD not die as it without ridiculous amounts of effort

[viscid mica]

If your a bad Rex a 6 man Utah can be horrifying

[versed rune]

hell, id even go as far as to say 2 utahs should threaten a dumb rex lol

but a half decent rex wouldnt have to worry about anything

[viscid mica]

Fr fr

[viscid mica]

Anything less than other apex’s

As it’s not gonna be as 1 dimensional as legacy

[crimson crater]

alright but what’s ur point?

[hasty coyote]

heres the issue: if they can threaten a dino with 9k hp, then they have to have at least 4.5k worth of damage each. how would a similar sized dino like pachy supposed to survive?

[keen plover]

Not really tbh. Some playables just autowin by you picking it

[hasty coyote]

cera shouldnt 1v1 an allo, if you want to bully an allo off a corpse, get a group

[viscid mica]

Like what

[versed rune]

cuz health values are overinflated after a certain point. you fix that by giving offensively based dinosaurs damage boosts across the board and uninflating health values

[viscid mica]

Pachy should be far faster and far more stam than a Rex

[keen plover]

Cerato vs anything smaller than it 1 v 1 I'd say. I guess dilo can range attack it. But omni has to play perfect. One bite > puke > extra bite.

[viscid mica]

Fair

The skill difference needs to be far more extreme in that regard

Vomit do he kinda op(against the smalls)

[crimson crater]

it absolutely should. anything with a group advantage can hunt things bigger than themselves. it’s pretty situational which is why i believe that it should be extremely strong on them. cerato is supposed to be though despite its size you’re just making it like anything else rn

[versed rune]

also

totally off topic but the health bar needs to come back because oh my god for a game that talks about wanting to be "minimalistic" that blood HUD is super distracting and unreliable

[keen plover]

Won't ever happen outside of mods

[viscid mica]

^

[dusky surge]

the blood HUD was here far longer than the healthbar though?

[keen plover]

for evrima?

[dusky surge]

also hard disagree on the healthbar thing. im still glad its gone lmao

[hasty coyote]

so, lower almost every single dino's hp and buff almost everything's damage? How would slow dinos be able to survive in the slightest? Like diablo already has a hard enough time hitting a good omni, should it just die because its attacks are simply too slow to hit one?

[dusky surge]

in general

[versed rune]

i know

funny thing is though the original legacy blood was actually super reliable. then they changed it and carried it over to evrima and you just couldnt tell

the blood PNG with an opacity change was more reliable and made the need for a health bar nonexistent lmao

but i do feel like there's a better way to show "hey your dino is dying" than covering the screen borders w/ blood and obscuring your vision

[hasty coyote]

it aint faster than omni, which is my point. For 2 omni to fight rex, it would have to be able to deal 4.5k damage in bleed each with their pounces. Even if we say both need to burn 2 stam bars, they each would have 2250 damage in a single stam bar, which means they would have to burn less than 1/4th of their stam bar to kill a pachy

[dusky surge]

there is. there's a health indicator in the form of the heart monitor you can use

[versed rune]

true but, eh. its unreliable especially for a quick check during combat

it stays green for like 2 seconds before changing

[hasty coyote]

and once you drop below half, your bite force drops linearly with your missing hp, making it pretty easy to estiate how much hp you got

[versed rune]

that's a thing?

[dusky surge]

i still hate that fact

[versed rune]

that is uh....

certainly a choice.

"oh you cant find food? well F you, now since you're losing health, you also lose the ability to kill said food if you find it!" 🖕

thats CRAZY

[hasty coyote]

thats what wounded does, lower your attack damage based on how much hp you have missing. At 50% you got 100% damage and at 0% hp your damage is halfed. And it updates immediately unlike the ekg bar at the bottom.

[versed rune]

so

say im a carno

the moment i hit below 50% my bite damage drops to 75?

[hasty coyote]

no, its still 150

as you drop, in hp, so does the damage, so at like 25% you would have 112.5, at 1% you would have 75

at 49% you would have like 149

[versed rune]

ah i see

that still sounds real annoying tho

punishing already starving players, when bodies dont even provide sufficient amounts of food to begin with

[hasty coyote]

I have had no issue surviving personally, granted I do generally play with friends for the pack oriented dinos like omni (solo omni sounds like pain).

Though for carno, it does prob need a buff so that it has a smaller stomach

if its supposed to hunt small game, it needs to sustain itself on small game

[versed rune]

i will be forced to take drastic vigilante action if someone falls for the small game hunter meme one more time

[dusky surge]

genuinely? do the opposite of what they did for cera

make carno's stomach smaller, so it requires less food

whereas cera requires more food

carno can sustain itself on juvis and small critters

cera is still cera

its a decent way to make it actually do the job it was intended to do

[viscid mica]

That wasn’t the point we where just saying it’s possible not probable but possible

[hasty coyote]

then its already possible, its just gonna take a long while.

[viscid mica]

Ye we weren’t asking for anything to change there more so bantering on how stuff will feel come bigger Dino’s

Cuz like ALOT of stuff bid afew things needing tweaks is in a good spot rn and that it’s best to wait and see for bigger predators

Main tweaks being pachy and carno buff as well as give them dam dryos they’re burrows already

[hasty coyote]

you may not have been, but they were: #balance-feedback-discussion message

[viscid mica]

Who

Ahhhh

[hasty coyote]

the other person you were bantering with and the person I was originally replying to

[viscid mica]

Ya na I wanna see some minor stuff rn but otherwise I wanna see a lot more bigger hunters and herbs before I start judging as currently the line up leaves a lot to be desired before we can argue out the small stuff

[hasty coyote]

yeah, thats kinda the issue atm, we don't really have any carnivores that are designed to hunt bigger targets solo, closest we got are omni packs

https://tenor.com/view/obiwan-star-wars-dont-try-it-ewan-mc-gregor-revenge-of-the-sith-gif-7971802

[viscid mica]

And even that isn’t meant for stego pressing

Stego kinda specializes in dealing with that

[hasty coyote]

yeah the animal who is specialized at attacking flanks vs the dino with one of the best flank protection in the game, aint the best matchup. Even then, stegos can still get shredded by a good group of omnis.

that wasnt exactly where I thought that was going, but it aint nearly as bad so I'll take it.

[viscid mica]

Absolutely but that also depends on skill across the board

Over all most things in a good place for the time being

We needa see more Dino’s to make any more major adjustments

[hasty coyote]

yeah most things dont have a "get spotted and die on sight" matchup, so its very good overall. maia may throw a huge wrench into balance tho

[viscid mica]

I mean other than pachy

Pachy getting washed by whole roaster

[hasty coyote]

even pachy can survive most matchups, its just that you have to play very well compared to them. And also take speed mutations or just die on sight to cera, but thats a speed mutation issue, not a pachy issue

[viscid mica]

When was last you played pachy?

[hasty coyote]

this patch, like a week or 2 ago.

[viscid mica]

Ain’t no way you played recently and think your surviving a half competent omni

Baring any bad skill issue of actually managing to let a pachy break your leg it’s a W to everything

[hasty coyote]

again, "play very well compared to them". If I get a single hit off, that omni loses the fight, granted its hard to get said hit if the omni knows what its doing.

[viscid mica]

If you get a M2

[hasty coyote]

if I get a single alt, I immediately tap ram after.

[viscid mica]

Any half competent omni ain’t letting you land that and is getting the freest pounce of their life after you self stun

Like I dunno bout you beyond the 12+packed omni and dilo all the solo chads ain’t letting me get them hits on the CA/NA that I grow herbs on

[hasty coyote]

yeah I aint gonna lie, if the omni is basically equal skill or better, you just die. hence why I said you have to out skill your opponent to survive, which imo, should be the opposite since you're much slower than omni.

[viscid mica]

Pachy should be scary to them imo it should be a risky hunt for a solo or duo not free as a brand new player trying to grow stego(solo duo raptor to be clear)

[versed rune]

@meager hazel they nerfed utah's bite speed?

[leaden remnant]

1.5 ish seconds between each bite

[keen plover]

its like equal to carno bite rate. both pretty bad

[keen plover]

pachy needs a buff yeah but also pachy is pretty frustrating to face as omni. You need to outplay them hard. Equal skill omni loses

idk what happened to the ram it always sucks you in. I know latency but you used to be able to dodge it well but that was years ago lol

[leaden remnant]

you can beat up even the most competent raptor as a pachy btw

[hasty coyote]

from the pachy's perspective its def the opposite, I have hit omnis so many times dead on with a ram, but the game just says "nuh uh" as they slide away.

[keen plover]

classic

[viscid mica]

Real

[viscid mica]

I just fundamentally disagree with this

[leaden remnant]

seen it happen plenty of times

[viscid mica]

Then they are not equal skill by any means

[leaden remnant]

yeah the pachy is worse

[viscid mica]

When was the last time you played pachy to be clear?

[leaden remnant]

the match itself is pachy sided but it's bugs and broken things that make it painful

[leaden remnant]

about 1 week ago...? something like that

[viscid mica]

I find that incredibly hard to believe

[leaden remnant]

right before hordetesting

[viscid mica]

Pachy is free 99 rn

[leaden remnant]

last time i played pachy in petits

[viscid mica]

Like you have to be awful to lose the 1s to a pachy in current build

[leaden remnant]

nah it's pachy sided

are you available for some norden gaming?

[viscid mica]

I’m bouta go to work

[leaden remnant]

alr no worries

[viscid mica]

I got a full pachy on na 5 rn

[leaden remnant]

i see

[viscid mica]

And yes I can hold my ground to a solo raptor it’s still a very hard earned fight and usually requires pure luck for a super early leg break

[leaden remnant]

i don't think i have a pachy anywhere right now but just know that did some serious pachy gaming to see if its bad or not

[leaden remnant]

i hate the fact that i bonk a raptor's face and he gets a body fracture

[viscid mica]

Grow NA5 and I’ll hit you up tonight XD

[leaden remnant]

it's always frickin body fractures

[leaden remnant]

it's better if we try it on norden (it's not like i have that much time anymore unfortunately)

[viscid mica]

NOT ON horde test btw

[leaden remnant]

ya ofc

[viscid mica]

Ah is Borden a PvP server

[leaden remnant]

yus

[viscid mica]

I’ll have to go peek I have just been growing on officals as of late