balance-feedback-discussion

[tribal idol]

yea im not doubting your hours or skills, im just saying I have a lot of time in evirma and its not like the hardest fight for me as cera against a dibble

[sonic field]

but ima head to bed now because its late and a hurricane is coming tmmr so i gotta get ready for all that

[tribal idol]

gl with that, ima have to deal with it too, gn

[dusky surge]

more cloe to 350, so less :P

[tribal idol]

jesus

[dusky surge]

cera def needy nerfy

[tribal idol]

I need to learn all the numbers again, tho I do know most of them

[dusky surge]

the hunting needs to be tuned down bigtime

[tribal idol]

yea, 100%

350 damage is likely more than allo's bite force

which is interesting

[dusky surge]

i think if allo wasn't planned to be able to pin, it'd have a real hard time with cera

[tribal idol]

oh 100%, 2 ceras will prob still be able to gang an allo kinda easily

[dusky surge]

hopefully. Allo doesn't need a high bite force to be successful in its niche

Just decent bleed

[tribal idol]

I mean allo was generally good at everything in legacy and then had good bleed as well

so hopefully nothing insane for it

[keen plover]

should hit for like 250 range imo and it also shouldn't double bacteria :D

[tribal idol]

honestly I could see that working nicely

[dusky surge]

Honestly? Reduce cera base biteforce to 125, reduce its charge bite to 250.

As for the removing doubling bacteria, on one hand, it would encourage use of the regular bite for applying bile, giving both bites purpose, but it would also somewhat reduce the risk a chargebite provides to smalls, but only by a small amount

[tribal idol]

I mean even if they nerf how much bile cera gives(which they need too), it shoud still be able to 1 shot make omni/pachy throw up with normal bite

[keen plover]

absolutely yeah

[tribal idol]

so would still be deadly enough

[dusky surge]

Given how fast cera's base bitespeed is, it'd be cool to see it be the goto for making something puke and go away

[keen plover]

imo i think base bite is fine but eh I wouldn't be against it

other than that I think it's a good

[tribal idol]

I mean I dont mind 125, but I also dont think its 100% required

[slim dragon]

Honestly that sounds a bit low
I like the idea that cera has a very high damage output
But it does need nerfs in other departments

[shadow vortex]

Another idea I’d suggest is to make playables again be able to run while vomiting. So Cera can’t get free bites on something, but it still punishes playables for attacking a Cerato since they’re losing all diets, stamina.

[obtuse ocean]

Cera has crap dmg already, i facetanked one yesterday 2 times i think as dilo. And i didnt even care

[dusky surge]

Cera and crap damage don't really go together

[obtuse ocean]

the fact you can facetank a cera 2 times as dilo and dont even care

even my bleed stopped after running around it

[vivid cedar]

Another thing they could do to Cera is increase the cool down and amount of bites it takes to make it puke

But generally I think the bile needs to be majorly looked at rn and how quick it takes effect

[honest wasp]

Too much Rain...too much rain...

[steep gazelle]

carno give the meat the ability to use the charge on a 100% dibble, because the dibble is part of its diet and it is completely ineffective against a dibble at the moment

and give an urgent debuff to the cerato bacteria

[dusky surge]

or just remove dibble from the diet because it's baffling that dibble is on there given the entire way dibble operates and carno operates

carno is a small game hunter that hits below its own size, yet it has a 3 ton behemoth on the menu?

cera bile is scuffed as hell tho that's true

[steep gazelle]

2 bite vomit a full dibble xd

and 1 for a full carno

I hate how the devs don't even play the game to see how it is

If they add allo, the carno will need another rework to be able to defend itself and not just escape

[dusky surge]

Why?

Carno can escape easily as it is now, why would it need anything else?

[steep gazelle]

charge is carno's only weapon and is almost useless against larger dinos

[dusky surge]

okay, but it can escape said larger dinos, that's the point

it is actively not meant to hunt the bigger boys

[steep gazelle]

legacy carno can hunt an allo in a group, but evrima's carno is far from being able to do that in the future

[dusky surge]

that's not a bad thing though

just because it could in legacy doesn't mean it should in EVRIMA

[steep gazelle]

against a cerato, why doesn't it knock down and only causes stun? wax deals 360 damage in 1 bite and carno 175 with charge

[dusky surge]

because it's not supposed to be hunting cerato, it's meant to leave cerato to the corpse

[steep gazelle]

But not being able to go against someone of the same weight is completely unacceptable. having to run away from an allo? all good. But from a cerato? xd

[dusky surge]

deino can't go against stego

different niches for different playables imply different matchups

some animals are better at picking on their own size, some animals are better at punching up, some animals are better at beating up smaller animals

[steep gazelle]

2 deino They can go against a stego, there are mechanics for that

[dusky surge]

2 carnos can easily beat a cerato, also there's no mechanic for 2 deinos vs a steg

[steep gazelle]

2 carno can even kill a cerato, but they will be injured

[dusky surge]

so? most animals are injured after a fight

[steep gazelle]

the isle evrima needs devs to play the game and see the current status of certain dinos like dibble, cerato and carnotaurus

[dusky surge]

besides cerato, those animals are fine tbh

[steep gazelle]

Getting hurt a little is acceptable, but almost dying because one is completely broken and the other is completely poorly made?

the devs only think about adding new dinosaurs and forget that there are others to fix

[dusky surge]

they literally just rebalanced carno what do you mean lmao

they just fixed carno from its old godawful state

and they're working on adding climbing to hypsi soon, another animal that needs a fix

[steep gazelle]

"rebalanced". They made him only good with smaller dinos, but very bad against equal or larger ones. What a beautiful rework

[dusky surge]

that's literally always what carno was supposed to do, so yea, it is a beautiful rework

they made carno good at what they wanted carno to be good at since it was added to EVRIMA

carno has always been advertised as the resident "small game hunter" since it was shown off in concept art for EVRIMA

[steep gazelle]

hat's what they want, but imagine you can't fight a wax because the current form is only suitable for smaller dinosaurs? I'm saying as a player, I want fun. Always being killed by someone of the same weight is completely ill-considered

[dusky surge]

you can still fight ceratos and tenontos as the new carno, it just takes more skill to do

also what is a wax

[steep gazelle]

Against a teno you can even try, but the current wax and its bacteria make this almost impossible

[dusky surge]

oh, wax is cera

cera being overpowered has nothing to do with carno. I'd rather they nerf cera than change carno

[steep gazelle]

They should nerf Cera and guarantee the takedown of dinos with the same weight and smaller size a carno

only rework it needs

but this was unlikely to happen, just as the cera remained broken for a long time

[dusky surge]

if they add tapram back, it'll be really overpowered. Carno shouldn't be guaranteed the ability to knockdown its own size

[steep gazelle]

It is necessary to guarantee fun for carno players. A horrible spin, a bad sprint, but a takedown will ensure that the player doesn't lose his flesh extremely easily.

[keen plover]

Instant knockdown on same size is unfun for the other creatures lol

[dusky surge]

lmao

consider the fun for everyone, not just carno

knockdown should be something you earn/set up

i agree it's too difficult to setup now

it shouldnt be instant

[steep gazelle]

not an instant takedown, just like to stun and take down smaller ones, use the charge for a while

[dusky surge]

you already stun similar sized or smaller playables after charging for a while

[steep gazelle]

having to gain distance and still use the charge for a while will use up a good part of the stam

[dusky surge]

that's already the case

you already get knockdowns for gaining distance and using the charge for a while

(also it really doesn't use up much stam at all)

[steep gazelle]

and obviously the wax player will chase to try to avoid the charge, which makes it even more difficult to use this takedown in a fight

Well, the game will only start to be fun and correct when the devs stop thinking about adding more dinos and start tweaking the ones that are already in the game

[dusky surge]

they're already doing that lol

literally idk where you get the idea that they aren't tweaking the ones in game

last update, omniraptor, cerato, carno and dibble all got changed

[vale brook]

just reworked carno and cerato and troodon (kinda) and omni

focused on adding new things instead of adjusting old ones

[steep gazelle]

I noticed when they improved the cerato bacteria in the last att

[vale brook]

https://tenor.com/view/hotd-house-of-the-dragon-obcrack-hotd-rhaenyra-targaryen-emma-darcy-gif-15348009179058217546

[dusky surge]

they're also planning to give significant changes to hypsi, dryo, pachy

[steep gazelle]

That's good, but first of all, the main thing is to get the cera bacteria back to what it was.

That's it for today. Have a good night

[vale brook]

i dont think the pachy changes are described as significant

iirc idk tho im slow

[coarse blaze]

What changes are they all getting? I know hypsi claiming was being worked on

[vale brook]

hypsi climbing, dryo burrowing, pachy changes are unknown

#balance-feedback message had to super X this one

[snow glade]

Yeah my response to that suggestion is a big hell no

[coarse blaze]

South River would be awful for deino, it'd be the center all over again.

[vale brook]

just give it more spawns along the river coming from RD/Water Access

[coarse blaze]

I don't even know where mine spawned originally, I think swamps (?)

[vale brook]

swamp, water access, and NE lake is the spawns for deino

[golden coral]

@viscid schooner Are you using the proper bleed attack? Omni does either damage or bleed now, depending on attack. As for bucking, stamina "battle" wasn't bad (though not very fun or engaging, since you didn't have to drain the target of stamina first), but they apparently do not want that anymore. Being forced dismounted however is fine, it happened before after all, just that you ran out of stam first. Now they've made it RNG which is a very odd decision to be honest, but perhaps they have more planned for it (retaliation damage is meant to be a thing too after all).

[dusky surge]

Bucking still costs stam which is bizarre to me

[coarse blaze]

I think "It's outclassed by an HERBIVORE." is my favorite part, because herbivores shouldn't cause massive bleed obviously.

But omniraptor does some of the most bleed in game still, that's genuinely absurd to me to think it's doing poor in that department.

[hasty coyote]

Tbh, the stam battle made Omni near impossible to balance. If they gave it enough bleed in a pounce to deal with larger dinos in a group, they would just maul smaller dinos in a single pounce. If they balanced it around smaller dinos, they would take 3 years to kill larger ones because they just lack the stam to kill it.

Current bucking is rng tho so that’s really bad for both parties. I have lost and won fights purely because RNJesus decided that the raptor got immediately thrown on the ground or stayed on through half my stam pool.

[golden coral]

Fair. Though I'd argue maybe the problem there was the need to kill larger ones too quickly at times.

Or with not enough group members perhaps.

[leaden remnant]

@alpine plover if you mean killing everything in less than a minute with clones then uhhhh

(dilo is absolutely insane rn)

[distant torrent]

how dare herbivores with massive tail spikes and deadly horns or gnarly hind leg claws cause significant bleed lol

[alpine plover]

Sure, it has its illusions that help, its clones, but that's normal, it's part of its mechanics, like the bacteria for the Cerato, the charge for the Carno, or the pounce for the Omni. But beyond that, the Dilo's stats should be adjusted. A Cerato destroys you, but especially the Carno: if you run into it, you're dead. The Carno, which I actually find very well-balanced, destroys you in the current state of the game. I get no enjoyment from playing the Dilo. They should either slightly increase its weight or reduce the sound of its footsteps.
The illusions are easy to counter mud, water, or rocks, and it's over. The Dilo is not insane at all; it's a nightmare to play.

[leaden remnant]

uh

i would agree if this was the previous patch

rocks do nothing anymore, they spawn even on trees

only water blocks clones from spawning

and they do a ton of damage, all of them spawn on you + they cannot be killed in any way

[distant torrent]

I’ve had clones spawn on me then drop into the abyss of the water while swimming

[leaden remnant]

one bite is all it takes, and keep in mind this mfer runs at 47.5 without speed mutations

[leaden remnant]

💀

ive seen a dilo just bite an expert carno once and kill him in 15 seconds

dilo is p much the best carni rn

if there aint water, there aint nothing to save you

unless you can jump and get away ofc

[obtuse ocean]

Or just everything else is crap lol

I facetanked a cera 2 times as dilo yesterday, and didnt even care about the dmg or bleed.

[golden coral]

Well, carno is meant to hunt you, cera is meant to be "leave it alone", so not really the best examples there.

[alpine plover]

Currently, for me, the best carnivore is clearly the Ceratosaurus, followed by the Carno, but in no case is the Dilo too strong. Unless I’m only facing bad Dilos, or I’m playing the Dilo very poorly myself. Honestly, it's very situational, and when a Carno sees me, it usually means death, for sure.

[leaden remnant]

it might be you not playing dilo correctly then

from what i can see, what most people do is just facetank, get the person to purple, then just run away and spam clones

[dusky surge]

i recently played dilo and that thing is insane lol

3 teno kills in one night, including while it was being helped by a stego

[leaden remnant]

pretty solid strat imo

[leaden remnant]

dam

[obtuse ocean]

Thats the problem with the low dmg ingame overall, skill is significantly lowered.

[leaden remnant]

all my adult carno deaths are cause of dilos during night 😭

i get ambushed (my fault) or pick a fight that cant win (my fault) and die in 20 seconds

[obtuse ocean]

You getting ambushed by a dilo, is fine. But if a dilo facetank a cera on second bite, when you know its a dilo there. That should be punished.

[leaden remnant]

dilos just facetank everything rn

p much nothing can be done about it

[obtuse ocean]

Yea up the dmg overall, its low as asf

[leaden remnant]

which damage?

[obtuse ocean]

the overall dmg, i should not be able to facetank cera 2 times as dilo. And dont even care about dying or bleeding out

[dusky surge]

wdym "the overall damage"

[leaden remnant]

r u srue that's a good idea

[obtuse ocean]

The example right there

[leaden remnant]

everything's damage

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, cus then mistakes are punished. And not just facetank

[dusky surge]

oh hell no

[leaden remnant]

^^

[dusky surge]

that's a really, really bad idea for so many reasons lol

[leaden remnant]

tbh in this game mistakes are punished really badly

[alpine plover]

Yes, I completely understand the technique you're talking about, I’ve seen a lot of Dilos do that, but they ended up dead. The problem with the Dilo right now is that even if the person can’t see anything, they can still follow you by sound. And often, even when I use that technique, the issue remains that you need to be able to escape.
That's something I struggle with because of the loud footsteps of the Dilo, or the numerous rocks in the bushes that prevent a proper getaway.

I also heard that in the future, when the fog becomes effective with the Dilo, poisoned players will hear footsteps around them, which could actually make the Dilo much more interesting.

[dusky surge]

if the only justification is this ONE matchup with dilo, then that's a dilo issue, not a "buff everything's damage" issue

[leaden remnant]

i believe you are playing it incorrectly then

i rarely see any facetanker actually die

since dilo has a machine gun bite speed, getting someone to purple is super easily, and, from there, it's done

[obtuse ocean]

How ? If i can facetank a cera its not really punushied. Imagine 2 dilos, you dont even need to use a braincell

Up the dmg, where you actually need to time an attack

[leaden remnant]

a single mistake usually means your death

so you gotta play either perfect or you die

[obtuse ocean]

What mistakes are death ? You meaning facetanking a deino or something then ? Hell even that is not death if it bites lol

[leaden remnant]

making a wrong move against raptors, stegos, ceras, deinos, dilos, etc

[obtuse ocean]

Like facetanking a cera as dilo ? dont even hurt

[leaden remnant]

you get a bit too close to a stego and you get demolished

[obtuse ocean]

A stego yes, lol

[leaden remnant]

you make a mistake against a cera and you get pukelocked and die

[leaden remnant]

if the cera makes you puke it's joever

[alpine plover]

Even though this gameplay isn’t very fun, it’s really stupid. What would be your tips for successfully escaping a Carno

[obtuse ocean]

I do agree on the puke thing thats nasty

[leaden remnant]

dodging the carno is the only way tbh

you got more stam than a carno

you can also bite the carno one or twice if you are able to so he cant see you

he might hear you but at some point he might lose you

[obtuse ocean]

But honestly, that should also the only way. Carno should not be worried about a dilo, unless night and dense area

[hasty coyote]

bite the carno once to make them green, then run for a forest asap and crouch when you get past some bushes. They can't track you though scent or by sound that way, so they have to rely on sight, and thats being hindered by the bushes and fog.

[alpine plover]

Thx

[hasty coyote]

yeah only issue from there is making sure you werent too predictable and your skin isnt bright enough to see through the bush lol.

[alpine plover]

oh okay !

[vale brook]

@winged plinth "small animal" so we should nerf carno and cera as well? because they're both smaller than teno, and that seems to be the basis of this proposed nerf

[winged plinth]

Actually in size carnos are bigger but ok, but this wasn't the point of my suggestion, carnos and ceras don't deal such a damage and bleed like tenos, like explain how a kick can make me run half of my blood out in 30 seconds this is crazy, and the damage is op for a kick

Realistcally a bite doesn't do such a bleed but a kick does? This doesn't make sense

[vale brook]

it had massive claws on its back feet, what do you mean? and no, in size carno is not bigger. carno is 1300kg, tenonto is 1.6k

[winged plinth]

And another thing besides the op damage and bleed it can stun you and hit you like 3 kick hits which can make you red and you need to leave the fifht

[vale brook]

not to mention tenoto already got nerfed in the last patch and just dies the moment a cerato sees it now

[golden coral]

Didn't the teno get nerfed on slam and kick damage by a bit?

[glossy elbow]

yeah

[vale brook]

yes, and it has a 1 second attack lock after its tail slam

[winged plinth]

Those claws won't do a bleed like that also when I said size I meant height but it doesn't matter also the carno got nerfed insanely

[vale brook]

its basically a horse with knives on its feet kicking you in the face

[glossy elbow]

carno should only fight teno in a pack or if they are very skilled other1wise your just gonna die

[winged plinth]

Doesn't justify the huge damage and bleed, especially when it stuns you and hit you like 3 kick hits

[golden coral]

Maybe if teno gets downsized it'd be more of a fight, but for now carno should probably avoid teno

[vale brook]

the horse kicking you with knives taped to its feet doesnt justify the bleed

ok this is where i check out

[winged plinth]

I'm not talking about the carnos I'm talking about the insane damage of tenos

[glossy elbow]

it got nerfed recently

[winged plinth]

It's not even knives

[glossy elbow]

its quite a bit less then it was before

[golden coral]

Teno can combo yes, which is one of the fun parts about it, if you do get hit with the slam, or the kick, you're going to get beat up

[vale brook]

you're right, they're animal claws designed to deal damage against things trying to kill it

[winged plinth]

Still it does a huge damage I practiced today carno vs teno I was about to die because it stuns and kick you 3 times with huge damage and bleed

Also it's very agile making it nearly impossible to die

[vale brook]

considering you arent really meant to be hunting tenos as carno, i dont see an issue with this

[glossy elbow]

yeah

[winged plinth]

I don't know why it's that agile tho

[winged plinth]

So no one will hunt tenos where is the balancing in that

I'm not saying make carnos win against tenos which that should be but this is not my point, I'm sayinf why the huge damage of a kicking exist

[vale brook]

cerato destroys teno right now

3 omnis pin teno and can just kill it without any fighting back from the teno

dilos can run in and just spam hallucinations

[glossy elbow]

you can likely hunt it in packs so its not invulnerable

just things like carno aren't made to 1v1 teno rn

[vale brook]

2 carnos could probably handle a teno rn, yeah

you just gotta play decently smart and not run straight into it or fall for the baits

[golden coral]

Or even if you must, use one as bait to land knockdown charge, if carno still can knockdown teno?

[vale brook]

nah it cant afaik, teno is too large

[glossy elbow]

i think it can still stun it though

[vale brook]

this could be true, idk i dont touch tenos when i play carno

[golden coral]

Ah, nvm then, but if you can get some effect, it could be one way to at least make the teno be wary of just following up with a combo

[vale brook]

because i enjoy life and sticking to things i actually am equipped to deal with

[winged plinth]

Ceratos doesn't destroy tenos in a 1v1 fight

[glossy elbow]

it does

[vale brook]

brother you insta vomit them with 1 bite and ruin their stam/water/diets

[golden coral]

It does actually

[winged plinth]

This is not my point, my point is the tenos makes none sense damage and bleed even a knives won't make a carno bleed like this

[golden coral]

Got some people that tested it out, cera does as a matter of fact take on teno quite well

[glossy elbow]

yeah teno only won once

[vale brook]

carno is known to have a poor bloodpool lol, its not really that shocking that teno bleeds it like that

[golden coral]

Keep in mind carno still has high bleed multipliers most likely, plus not that much blood anymore, being smaller

[winged plinth]

Actually it will stun me and hit me 3 kicks when I do that have you forgot that they are insanely agile?

[vale brook]

if thats whats happening to you as a cera, thats a skill issue

Sorry

[winged plinth]

Not just carnos but even a cera or other dinos, and for a dilo one stun and it's over

[glossy elbow]

but it doesn't? damage wise at least idk about bleed but its damage just isn't that high

[vale brook]

the kick does the same damage as carno bite rn iirc

[winged plinth]

I watched a video about ceras vs tenos, whenever they do a rematch even with different players tenos still win

[golden coral]

Well yes, they're all smaller and rather fragile, so if you do get knocked down, and the teno can follow up, you'll be in severe trouble

[golden coral]

Guess it could vary, but the test I've heard of, the cera won quite handily

[winged plinth]

Nope not a skill issue and don't try to be smart, to make a teno vommit it needs more than 1 bite and I can actually send you a video where ceras gpt destroyed by tenos in tests

[vale brook]

OBJECTIVELY WRONG

cerato takes 1 bite to vomit teno now, like it does MOST things ever since the NV update

[winged plinth]

You mean charge bite not a single bite

[glossy elbow]

yeah a decent amount of people tested it last night cera destroys teno most of the time

[vale brook]

a single bite does it as well actually

[winged plinth]

But anyways, not every cera has full bacteria or even food

[vale brook]

yay to overpowered bile!!!

then thats just a stupid cera if it has no bile considering you only lose bile in fights lol

[winged plinth]

For carnos it takes like 2 - 3 bites, but tenos are bigger than carnos rn so it would take more like 3 or 4 bites

[winged plinth]

Not always you have full bacteria and food smart guy

You need to think about all the situations and scenarios, not one scenario

[glossy elbow]

and currently you gain bile from all food sources not just rotten ones so as long as you are constantly eating you should always have a decent amount of bile

[winged plinth]

Besides healing before the last bite when you are about to vommit is fast

[vale brook]

and considering you can smell across almost half the map, it is not an issue to get bile

[winged plinth]

I tested this today

[winged plinth]

Sometimes I smell and no food, it's not a skill issue, it's just bad luck

[golden coral]

You can puke a diablo in one charge bite. I don't know if it works with normal bites on teno and carno, but one charge bite will puke them too

[winged plinth]

I know, I think ceras are going to have a nerf since most of the players are mad about the puke system

[leaden remnant]

a charge bite makes you puke as a teno if the charge bite is fully charged iirc

[winged plinth]

Yooo

I knew I know you from here

[leaden remnant]

yessir

also are you fully sure that teno needs a nerf

[glossy elbow]

yeah because its insanely broken with 1v1s right now

[winged plinth]

Yes it deals huge damage + stuns with 3 extra hits

[leaden remnant]

what bout buffing everything else 🤷‍♂️

[winged plinth]

This is going to force you to leave the fight

[leaden remnant]

3 extra to carnos

[winged plinth]

Would make it worse

[winged plinth]

Also ceras

[golden coral]

Well, it seems to be needed, the scaling does not seem to work very well currently

[vale brook]

"itll be harder to make things larger than you vomit" and it becomes easier

[leaden remnant]

i mean yeah but no

technically speaking yes

but most you can get is 2 kicks and a claw attack

[golden coral]

Yeah, doesnt seem to work out that way currently

[leaden remnant]

you r probably right

carno has an awful stun duration

would make more sense to decrease stun durations by a bit

imo benefits everyone way more than just nerfing teno

[glossy elbow]

teno's damage got nerfed a decent amount with the latest update so its not doing massive damage maybe just a decent amount of bleed damage which to things like carno its gonna kill pretty easy due to carno having low bleed resistance

[winged plinth]

Yes but still it's op I don't know why tenos don't have a cooldown during every each right click attack

[winged plinth]

I don't think that nerf you are talking about did something big to the tenos

[golden coral]

Why would you want to make another playable clunky and unengaging? Also that would remove potential for followup attacks or combos, so should every playable get cooldown between every attack then?

[leaden remnant]

well they do have cooldowns

teno is a combo dino so cooldowns between combo attacks probably aint a good idea

[winged plinth]

I don't want to make every playable unplayable, the game is just not balancing some dinosaurs, the way the tenos fight other dinosaurs is op, why some kicks would deal that damage and bleed explain

[leaden remnant]

tbh theres not really any other way to deal with other dinos than kicking em

without stuns, teno would be very difficult to play

kicks and slam require more precision than most other attacks in game

[winged plinth]

Yeah just stun me and spam me 2 or 3 times and make me red with some kicks how does this even work

[winged plinth]

They don't, I can literally record a video spamming RMB and show you what happens when I do this

[leaden remnant]

unless you wanna rework teno as a whole, probably not a good idea

[leaden remnant]

ive noticed a small cooldown

[winged plinth]

I don't say remove stun tho

[leaden remnant]

tail slam does have a 2 sec cooldwon iirc

[leaden remnant]

make stun durations a bit shorter and we ball

[winged plinth]

Tail slam doesn't deal that damage it's just used to stun other people, look my probelm is the tenos deal unrealistic damage with an unrealistic way to deal that, which is the kicks, also they are too agile it's nearly impossible to reach their head or body without getting slammed and 2 - 3 kicked

[leaden remnant]

are you sure it's unrealistic

[winged plinth]

Also there is like a bug I don't know what is it when I got atuneed the dinosaur remains still like I don't press shift trying to run

[leaden remnant]

if we're going with realism, there wouldnt be a stun but a head fracture

[winged plinth]

I don't talk about full realism, for example make dryos one shot other dinosaurs and say the game is balanced?

[golden coral]

Explain what? I don't know if the damage or bleed is too high, but it depends entirely on what it should be able to fight and how well. So can't really say much there.

[leaden remnant]

dryos don't 1 shot other dinos tho

[winged plinth]

This is what I mean about realism

[leaden remnant]

liek i completley get your point but i just dont think it's a good idea

[winged plinth]

I said it's an example

[winged plinth]

Do you know tenos are the most dinosaurs that deals high bleed?

[golden coral]

I've heard it does a decent bleed, yes. But I don't know if that's how it's meant to be or not, it depends on what teno is meant to do and fight

[winged plinth]

And they are too agile to get to their head or bodg without getting slammed and stunned, likely the most agile thing I've ever seen in the game

[leaden remnant]

uhhhhhh no sir

it is easy to get there

[winged plinth]

https://youtu.be/NFuy2w3RS1c?feature=shared
Skip to 4:08 I know it's an old video tho

[winged plinth]

Yeah if you want to get tail slammed, they can easily turn their tail towards you

[leaden remnant]

their skill is extremely questionable

[winged plinth]

They kept changing players tho during the fights

But still tenos always win

[leaden remnant]

yea cause the ceras really werent good

tenos werent either

[keen plover]

What were you playing btw

[tribal idol]

The ceras legit tried to face tank a tenos kick with a charge bite…

[leaden remnant]

aslo tried to ass tank

[royal valve]

tenos bleed is bloody crazy

still balanced though unless teno chases then you die then theres nothing you can do about it

[tribal idol]

I mean it’s pretty good, but it’s also a 1.6 ton horse with claws kicking you

[royal valve]

yea i get claws doing great bleed

but i got kicked twice in the body and bled out

[tribal idol]

As what?

[royal valve]

i didnt even run

[royal valve]

carno.... yea it was stupid

i was like 80% grown and was feeling cocky

learnt my lesson

[tribal idol]

New carno? Because new carno still has the bad bleed resistance

[royal valve]

new carno

yep the 1.3 ton one

i got messed up bad i feel like teno shouldnt do that much on kicks maybe its claw but like still

[tribal idol]

I mean that’s more of new carno needing better bleed resist, cera can take like 4 kicks and live bleed. Another teno can also take like 4-5 kicks and live bleed

[royal valve]

shouldnt need only 4 kicks

as they have stuns which makes it quite unfair

[tribal idol]

I mean I havnt had a problem against teno this update as cera, or even dilo

And carno isn’t meant to fight teno so

[royal valve]

yea i guess but they were killing juvis and being a pain in the ###

still i dont understand why i died to two kicks its crazy even when i was very very cautious not to sprint as that makes you bleed really fast

maybe they were considered hs kicks? they were more directed towards my body tho

[tribal idol]

That’s just new carno, it’s bleed resistant is absolutely horrible

Most other things can take a good amount of kicks

[royal valve]

oh god if galli still had their bleed haha

[tribal idol]

New carno would get bullied by 2 lmao

They also nerfed tenos kick this update

275 to 250 damage

[royal valve]

they mightve increased bleed to compensate it

[leaden remnant]

you died to two kicks?

[royal valve]

yep

[leaden remnant]

wat

[royal valve]

my health was fine(ish) but i bled out

[tribal idol]

You were 80% carno right?

[leaden remnant]

2 kicks tho...

[royal valve]

around im not sure exact

[leaden remnant]

usually it takes 3-4 kicks and nonstop sprinting

[tribal idol]

I mean that’s of what I’ve seen a new carno issue, they nerfed it weight to 1.3 but kept its bleed resist being horrible

It’s really easy to bleed carno

[leaden remnant]

yea i just have never seen it happen

ive beaten the crap outta carnos and been beaten up by tenos

never died to 2 kicks while perma sprinting

[tribal idol]

I pounced a carno for 15 seconds as an adult Omni and it bled out chasing me

[leaden remnant]

i mean 15 seconds is 15 seconds

that is a ton of time

[tribal idol]

Yea, but that’s till wouldn’t bleed anything else out other than dilo and pachy

[winged plinth]

Carno

[winged plinth]

I know, but only 2 or 3 kicks and the cera died

I prefer fighting dibbles rather than missing with tenos rn

[tribal idol]

That’s also back on spiro, and those were all headshots

It takes 4 headshots to kill a cera rn

[winged plinth]

From what I saw yesterday I think it's less

The teno took like 3 body hits to make me orange or red

[tribal idol]

I tested it 2 days ago with someone in here, it’s 4

Dibble also does more damage then tenos kicks

[winged plinth]

I know but they are not stupidly strong like tenos, maybe the weight yes but not the same fighting stylexat least dibbles are not as agile as tenos

[tribal idol]

Teno rn isn’t that strong, ceras can easily beat tenos, thats what me and another guy were testing 2 days ago on an admin server

[winged plinth]

Maybe with full bacteria, but without it I doubt that

[tribal idol]

I’ve done it without multiple times, cera charge bite does 350 damage

And your more agile

[winged plinth]

Tf 44 person disagreed with me I don't think my idea is that bad I don't even think there are a lot who play as teno I don't know how those bunch of people came to disagree with that

Lol

[winged plinth]

But it's hard to get to their head without getting slammed

[tribal idol]

Because a 1.6 ton horse with claws on those feet makes sense to do how much damage it does

[tribal idol]

Not really, cera is plenty agile enough to get to a tenos body or head

It’s very easy to bait or dodge and get a hit in

[winged plinth]

I will test it rn

[tribal idol]

Are you saying against me? Or are you testing it against someone else

Cuz I’m without power from the hurricane

[winged plinth]

no I will test it in a free admin server

[tribal idol]

Me and another guy did it the other day, the cera won 5 times in a row and the teno was good

[winged plinth]

ok at least reduce the insane bleed

and make it less agile a lil bit not much

not a big deal I guess

[tribal idol]

You can’t make the animal that attacks from its ass not less agile, it’s already easy to get around

[winged plinth]

I don't say way less agile

[tribal idol]

Bleed idc too much about, it’s not that absurd in my opinion but

[winged plinth]

just a lil bit

[tribal idol]

Even a little bit could mess it up, it doesn’t need to be less agile anyways

[winged plinth]

ok

[leaden remnant]

4-5

unless my headshots for some reason become body hits

[tribal idol]

It’s 5 with less damage from larger mut

[winged plinth]

@tribal idol after the test I can say tenos have the worst hitbox sometimes they don't get damaged or because high ping and low fps

I don't think the tail gets damaged for most the time tho

[tribal idol]

The tail counts as body shots for teno other than the very tip

I’ve never had problems hitting their tail

[winged plinth]

sometimes I don't hear them get damaged or my ears have a problem

[tribal idol]

Audio bug still exists, it just doesn’t cause you to fatal error anymore

[cinder quail]

.bal

.bal

[hushed ibex]

@hollow yoke all the downvoters don't like the idea of herrera not being a crutch dino

[hollow yoke]

Lol, it's funny I love herra too. I think it would just add some nice complexity for herras and future tree climbers 🤷‍♂️

[tribal idol]

@west plank #balance-feedback message I feel like they could also make dibbles attacks consistent, such as rn it’s running attack that stuns does only 150 damage, standing still does 275, and spar attack does 350

If they made the running do 275 that would fix most of the problem, making it actually scary to get hit by. There also likely not gonna nerf the weight because they want it to be able to fight allo and Rex in a herd probably

[cedar beacon]

If you knockdown a target and use spar attack and alt attack it does 800 damage.

[tribal idol]

yea ik, but thats only if you get all 3 attacks off

and most of the time you can only get 1 of the attacks off, so having 275 damage on running would be good

and it also just makes sense, idk why it does 150

[leaden remnant]

taht feedback is the definition of abhorrent skill issue

dibble is not normal rn due to how strong it is

a dibble is not helpless against a cera

a dibble is helpless against 5 ceras if they know how to fight

[tribal idol]

I mean yea, it isnt, but it should still should do the 275 damage on running

[leaden remnant]

if it knocks you down then not sure about that

but at the same time... i guess youre not wrong

[tribal idol]

its a 3 ton ceratopsian and cera still can hunt it in pairs, which is fine if its a stupid dibble, but even good dibbles struggles massively against 2 ok ceras

[leaden remnant]

um, no

[tribal idol]

it also just doesnt make any sense how a 3 ton ceratopsian running at you does 150 damage and it standing still does 350

[leaden remnant]

a good dibble struggles against 5 ok ceras

[leaden remnant]

wat

[tribal idol]

no, it only takes 2

[leaden remnant]

it does 275 the entire time

[leaden remnant]

nope, if you die to 2 ceras as a dibble we got a big problem here

[tribal idol]

350 is spar attack, I meant to say 275 and said spar

[leaden remnant]

oh i see

[tribal idol]

I dont think I have ever seen a dibble win that

[leaden remnant]

then every dibble youve seen has no idea about the power dibble has within it

master dibbles win against everything

nothing out there stands a chance

and when i say nothing i mean it

im sure you would feel surprised when a master dibble destroys 6 meh carnos

[tribal idol]

I mean ive gotten pretty good with dibble and 2 ceras who arnt that bad can really mess you up

[tribal idol]

I have 1v10'd carnos as dibbles

[leaden remnant]

in that case, either the ceras were excellent or there is plenty of room for improvement

[tribal idol]

so

[leaden remnant]

i personally beat 4 okay ceras as a 1.1 ton dibble

and im not an excellent dibble

okay ceras as in they werent bad and somewhat knew what they were doing

but they committed some major mistakes at the start so i got a massive upper hand

[tribal idol]

ok thats not okay ceras, thats just, wow

[leaden remnant]

they were okay ceras

[tribal idol]

I have solo's adult dibbles as cera, if 4 cant kill a 1.1 ton one

[leaden remnant]

okay cera pretty much means has a grasp on the dino but theres a lot of room for improvement

[leaden remnant]

congratulations, you have quite a lot of skill

not sarcasm

[tribal idol]

oh ok

[leaden remnant]

unless the dibble is playing on 1 fps, thats nice as hell

[leaden remnant]

in short, they know how cera works and can fight

[tribal idol]

ive done it a few times, unless they were all on 1 fps

[leaden remnant]

yea thats pretty nice tbh

i doubt they were all on 1 fps

[tribal idol]

I have around 3k hours on evirma, I mained teno on spiro, was able to 1v3 carnos pretty well

[leaden remnant]

neato

[distant torrent]

yea dibble really struggles. it’s mostly because of how vomit works right now, which is a cera issue. cera needs a pretty sizable nerf regarding fighting species bigger than it. it should not be hunting adult dibbles at all lol

the eat to heal mutation also doesn’t help either. you have at least an okay chance as a dibble against two ceras if you use terrain very well, but you’ll severely struggle if they have corpses you can’t body guard from them

I’ve soloed dibbles as a cera even before the vomit changes. the changes just made cera vs dibble far more easier

[tribal idol]

yea, bile is a big problem rn, but it also doenst help that cera charge bite does 350 damage for a 1.3 ton corpse bully, and the charge bite also has no stam cost, cooldown, or anything

[distant torrent]

personally, I want charge bite to do 150 damage if it’s not around a corpse

[tribal idol]

or just make it to where charge bite cant be activated unless on a body buff, instead of the damage being 150, so that its easier to learn

[distant torrent]

I want most of its good features to be around corpses tbh

let it do the same amount of bile and damage it gives right now but only around a corpse it can’t carry

but nerf the hell out of it when it doesn’t have a corpse. the corpse bully needs a corpse and should strive to find a corpse

[distant torrent]

that could be good too

[tribal idol]

100% agreed

[cosmic pelican]

Wouldnt that just completely screw it over vs carno though

[tribal idol]

not at all, cera vs carno would still be a good 1v1, same stats, and if the carno spams charges then you can trade a charge for a bite, because charge doesnt do a lot of damage

[distant torrent]

cera is already screwed over vs carno right now. I played carno yesterday and man is it great at spamming ram on ceras lol

[tribal idol]

also also, cera should have to worry about most things when its not on a body

[tribal idol]

ive 1v2's carnos as cera this update, cera rolls new carno

just have to hit them when they charge you

[cosmic pelican]

Carno can bite insatntly after finishing a charge, which would be at least 250 damage against ceras 150 even if they trade. And dare I not bring in the tap charge stun.

[tribal idol]

99% of players arnt smart enough to do either of those, most can manage to trade a bite for a charge

at least in my experience

[cosmic pelican]

Game should be balanced around a playables full potential, not how your average joe plays it

[distant torrent]

honestly this though

if it makes cera better, just allow the corpse buff to mitigate ram stuns and knockdowns (to a certain weight threshold of course. I don’t think a 500kg cera with the buff should not be knocked down by a 1300kg carno)

[cosmic pelican]

And a carno that can reliably pull off the tap charge stun is MENACING

[tribal idol]

well full potential cera would ez win, just dodge and get bites, the only thing a skill carno could do is spam charge and if the cera is really good, dodging isnt too bad

[tribal idol]

Im pretty sure body buff already gives cera a slight resistance to stuns, would have to be tested tho

[cosmic pelican]

It does

[shadow vortex]

I’d balance Cera this way:

1. Reduce bile application to bigger species (Teno’s size and above, Cera shouldn’t touch them unless taking big risks).
2. Running with charged bite being active costs 20-30% more sprint stamina (nerfs extremely offensive playstyle).
3. Vomiting creatures no longer trot, they can run in this animation (so Cera doesn’t get free bites on them, but they still suffer the consequences of being sick).

[cosmic pelican]

You cant be knocked down while chuffing, but can still be stunned

[tribal idol]

I dont hate this, I think keep the vomit locks you to trotting, because most players will just ignore vomiting and try to win the fight, having the small time to get extra bites can help deter those players

[shadow vortex]

Hmm, maybe, but then I’d make small creatures take 2 normal bites to vomit instead of one. Otherwise they’re really screwed on an ambush.

Also Carno and Dilo are another story right now lol. One lives only because of bugs (Dilo), the other one enjoys spammable ram and bad hitboxes with inconsistent knockdown run-up timers.

[tribal idol]

well if small tiers let cera sneak up on them then I dont think its too much of a problem, and also a cera would need to get a full charge bite on a raptor to insta kill it. 350 max charge bite + 150 normal bite = 500, so unless the small tier misses the cera running charge biting for 3-4 seconds, I think they'll be fine

2 normal bites would only do 300, so not good health, but you would live

[tribal idol]

personal opinion for carno, right click to activate charge, and then left click to do a attack, so at least you need to time the hit

[shadow vortex]

Welp, Pachy for example has 3 full seconds of vomit animation, and Cera can execute those 150*3 bites during it. And it’s not really faster than a Cera. That’s why I want to make it take at least 2 normal bites for creatures of Omni/Pachy’s size to make them puke.

[shadow vortex]

Yep, that sounds approvable xd

[shadow vortex]

(If you keep the trot during vomiting, of course).

[tribal idol]

well I feel like thats more of pachy vomit animation needing to be less time, cuz omni puke animation is only enough time for 1 extra bite

so I think they should just make the vomit animation less time the smaller you are

would make sense

[shadow vortex]

Dilo’s vomit animation is long too, but extra hp saves it. Maybe vomiting times need to be addressed instead, yep.

[neon hound]

#balance-feedback message Go away the Omni has consistently gotten buffs without any nerfs and it's the easiest Carni to play

[golden coral]

@quaint carbon What about it makes it unplayable? Also what, how is omni not agile? Yes, omni bite is a bit slow, but well, omnis have their pounce to use which is lethal. And stamina, what's the issue there, that you can be outlasted by a prey? Wouldn't that count for a way to fail a hunt if anything.

[neon hound]

Omni players don't want to be able to fail a hunt otherwise they wouldn't see it as realistic

[keen plover]

rng bucking?

[quaint carbon]

I would say stam needs to be reworked considerably if the carno is going to get unlimited stam on their charge. Our pounces result in us pouncing other pack members , when bucking we get suck standing still directly under our prey, we are already "glass cannons"-very breakable

[golden coral]

I don't see how RNG bucking has anything to do with any of those points?

[quaint carbon]

the point is herbis should not be more agile than an omni??

[neon hound]

Pinning has no bucking also aim your pounces and be coordinated with other pack mates

[golden coral]

If you pounce others, that's on you having to aim better. And what herbi, aside from maybe dryo, is more agile than omni?

[quaint carbon]

its not realistic with all odds against us

[neon hound]

What herbis are we talking about

[neon hound]

They aren't

[keen plover]

tbf all the post said was omni was unplayable lol, edited now of course

[golden coral]

Yes but even with RNG bucking, it does not make it unplayable

[cosmic pelican]

Worst mechanic ever concieved, never hated anything more in this game

[neon hound]

Small herbis should be more agile and faster than you because pinning is a one shot you can't escape

[golden coral]

Would be so much more interesting if there was something to learn when it comes to bucking/when to get off and all

[quaint carbon]

I have stirred the pot 🥲 lovely, ive spoken my thoughts

[neon hound]

Pinning is worse

[quaint carbon]

Im not speaking of small herbis, dibble is a clear example rn

[golden coral]

Well yes, you claim omni, one of the overall better playables, is bad, for little to no reason

[keen plover]

RNG bucking shouldn't exist, yeah. Unfun as hell. Can't even hold on as troodon anymore 🙄

[quaint carbon]

thats your opinion, ive already given mine and my reasons

[neon hound]

Dude what are you on Dibble is no where near as agile

[golden coral]

Troodon shouldn't be holding on anyway to be fair

[keen plover]

I mean it makes it predictable when dismounting lol

[golden coral]

Well, you claim herbis are more agile, when they're not.

[neon hound]

Your opinion is wrong though because of facts

[quaint carbon]

why not??

[golden coral]

Tap pouncers, should be different from omni

[neon hound]

It's tiny and being shaken around and around by movement

[keen plover]

...

[quaint carbon]

agility to move quickly and efficiently, a dibble out bites an omni in 10 s, stam drain is less

that is my point

[cosmic pelican]

With rng bucking stego throws off omni before it can dismount itself ~50% of the time, which almost always results in the omni dying.
Very similar in the case of teno too. Or a troodon getting bucked off by an omni and alt bitten afterwards.

[golden coral]

Well, that would be a reason why RNG bucking is good I guess

[quaint carbon]

i see but claws hooked into flesh??

[golden coral]

Well, that's just good.

[neon hound]

Dibble doesn't bite and also get behind it and try to coordinate attacks with pack mates

[neon hound]

Tiny claws that can be shaken off

[golden coral]

You can rarely, if ever, hit on mount/dismount, so yeah, be a risk sometime

[cosmic pelican]

I hate how anything bigger than a beipi just insta bucks troodon😭
Poor lil fella cant catch a break

[quaint carbon]

theres many bugs of dibble hitting us behind them

[keen plover]

What? How is that good???????????

[golden coral]

Otherwise pounce has no risk

[quaint carbon]

I just dont have the video for proof

[keen plover]

The risk is you being a one shot animal that is required to constantly attack your target unlike omni

[golden coral]

You do not get hit while mounting/dismounting unless the target gets lucky, you're perfectly safe

[cosmic pelican]

Being dismounted and dying before you even had the chance to manually dismount by yourself? Ill have to disagree

[neon hound]

Or you got hit

[golden coral]

There's no risk, you have the speed and agility to avoid it

[quaint carbon]

Bro, i know what ive seen and experienced

[keen plover]

Have we been playing the same game? Troodon was a non issue before this change lol

[golden coral]

It wasnt, at all

[neon hound]

Lag is what you experienced

[golden coral]

Or, that depends on what you mean with non issue

[keen plover]

I mean it wasn't that much of a risk to face before lol

[neon hound]

Ok you are faster and have a better turn radius than dibble so how are you less agile

[golden coral]

No, not that specifically. But that there's now proper risk and deaths are good.

[neon hound]

You need to be careful of dibble they are powerful and can defend themselves

[golden coral]

Disagree on that. Can't hit omnis or troodons reliably

[neon hound]

If you can't hunt Dibble hunt something else

[cosmic pelican]

You can very easily hit troodons while theyre dismounting, their range is pitiful

Especially now that they land next to you when bucked off

[golden coral]

Does not seem like that from the vids I've seen

[neon hound]

Can you give me an example of a fight you had with a Dibble where it was more agile

Or just won

[golden coral]

So, will have to disagree. If you can pounce a target 5+ times, and not get hit once, you're far too safe

[golden coral]

Yes well, if you do get bucked off, it should be death

[keen plover]

I have never had an issue facing troodon, even before this change. Omni is very strong, sure, but rng bucking is a horrible system to solve it.

[neon hound]

Also for Omni your stam drains fast when you use pounce so use it wisely

[golden coral]

Oh I agree, RNG is no good. But there being risks involved in pouncing is and will always be good, considering how utterly safe the playables that have it are otherwise

[neon hound]

I'm a Galli player and all of our attacks drain stam other than bite which you shouldn't even use

I can still put up a fight

[cosmic pelican]

If it didnt happen in every fight then sure, but you living or dying being based off of rng is still horrible, especially when your only reliable damage option is tap pouncing

[neon hound]

A raptor beats me easily if it can get a pounce on me from behind because then it pins me and I die no matter what but I can outspeed it and I can kick it away

[golden coral]

Yeah, RNG bad, no disagreement there. But you should always get off before being bucked off, and you should have to worry about that at all times.

[neon hound]

Oh he stopped listening because he doesn't want ot have a debate

[cosmic pelican]

Well yeah but most of the time you just cant, they tap E and youre already in the character select screen ;-;

Omni can at least take a hit or two, troodon just cant, not even from juvis

[golden coral]

To be fair, that's why you come in groups of 12

Part of the point of having numbers is that a good few can be the fodder

Losses should be expected, you don't on your own have hp, but in the group you kind of do

[cosmic pelican]

Losing half of the pack after every hunt really diminishes morale though, its not fun to spend your playtime constantly dying because the game literally decided "you just die now"

[golden coral]

Well, I did say RNG is bad, and the losses should of course be suitable depending on target

[cosmic pelican]

🥔👍

[golden coral]

I still think making bucking work on the buck cycle would be a good idea

Just adjust bucking cycles where needed, or even have two speeds, for omni and troodon

[cosmic pelican]

Only getting thrown off after the bucking animation finished is something I can see working

With animation speed adjustments here and there

[keen plover]

I honestly think the prey shouldn't lose stam for bucking anyways. The pack hunters have the option to trade out and get stam.

[cosmic pelican]

Would be miles better than what we have now thats for sure lol

[hasty coyote]

In my experience its the opposite. I have burnt all my stam because the omni has stayed on for like 5 seconds while I'm just sitting there bucking. But that is the nature of rng bucking, very fun for both sides

[cosmic pelican]

Rng ❤️

[golden coral]

Yep. Eventually faster buck if troodon, slower if omni, makes sense for weight and all. And adjust some slower cycles to be faster if needed. The main point is that you get a learning curve of how bucking looks for a playable, and when it ends, so you can get off in time, or risk staying on til the very end (but risk being predicted on jump off then)

[cosmic pelican]

It seems to take weight difference into account as well, so troodon is just extra screwed rn

[golden coral]

Do you think the reason they added RNG is so they can make rex have 95% on every buck "tick", just so it can really deal with omnis? xD

Or maybe I'm just being paranoid and conspiratorial xD But I do wonder why RNG was decided upon

[golden coral]

Also a good question, why the target still loses stam

[cosmic pelican]

Why would rex even care, even if we had the old bucking. Its 8 tons, probably could tank like 5 full pounces before risking death

[golden coral]

Maybe, I just wonder, because their decision to make it RNG does not seem to make much sense, or be fun or engaging so

[cosmic pelican]

Maybe just experimental, hopefully

We had lots of whacky stuff in the past

[hasty coyote]

Personally, I'd make a small "balance" system, essentially the pouncers have a balance bar at the bottom that slowly reduces over time while pouncing and recovers at a moderate pace after getting off. Each dino subtracts a different amount of balance per second while bucking, so pachy may subtract a HUGE amount so they don't just insta die to omnis, but something like stego may not buck them off as quickly. If omnis run out of balance they fall off like they ran out of stam. Now omnis can't just instantly hop back on after falling off, omnis have time to get off before its too late, and they can be balanced so smaller prey doesnt get 1-shot or larger prey takes 5 hours to kill.

Or we can just go the simple route of "after X time of bucking, all pounces get thrown off", but thats boring.

[hasty coyote]

this is also something that needs to change, bucking is absolutely necessary to deal with omnis if you aren't 2 feet from terrain, and the stam consumption makes it almost detrimental at times.

[keen plover]

carno losing up to 70% stam if the rng is bad 😍

[cosmic pelican]

Can we just rewert to the old system but make it cost 1% stam per tick for the prey instead

[golden coral]

Hm, that could work too, yes. Granted, the "after x time" is boring, but it does add some "need to learn how it looks" that it wouldn't have otherwise for the player to deal with. Wonder if there's some way to combine the ideas or something.

[golden coral]

I'm somewhat surprised you don't just die outright if the RNG is that bad xD

[keen plover]

stood still and camped a spot. The bleed was insane though lol

[vivid cedar]

@lunar jetty if you can't beat a teno in a 1v1 with Cera it's a skill issue on your part. If you try tail riding a teno you are gonna lose. However if you keep moving and stay close to it's head it can't hit you.

[leaden remnant]

@humble spear it already got a big nerf

[lunar jetty]

It’s faster

[dusky surge]

ok and

[humble spear]

@leaden remnant oh I didn't know. Ig that's why I haven't been able to pull it off recently. What's the change?

[leaden remnant]

costs a ton more stam

[humble spear]

@leaden remnant mk good to know thx. Definitely more of a finishing move now ig

[leaden remnant]

yus

[humble spear]

The main problems I've had as omni is the desync and overall bad ping. Cause I can't trust my movements. Omni should be about expert dodging and close calls with big reward if you make it. Also i see omni as sort of a controll playable. You can exert complete controll over the oponant for a short time to deal damage if you manage to get past the chompy bits. Idk something about the rng buck makes the controll attack impossible because now it's a hop on and roll the dice.

[leaden remnant]

i agree

very stupid

[lunar jetty]

@royal valve your tail and some part of the chest was still below lol

[royal valve]

yea but out of reach of the carno

also not really

@lunar jetty you can see im well above it and it definitely shouldn't be able to hit me :/

[vivid cedar]

I casually kill twnos regularly solo as Cera it's faster but to do any real damage to you it's butt has to be facing you if you keep away from the tail you are fine

And you can certainly turn faster than they can use a tail attack.

[lunar jetty]

Fov + pov that’s all.

[royal valve]

I'm like 6-10 feet above the thing

?????

[rigid tulip]

rng bucking is terrible for skill based play. just make bucking more effective like it once was, and remove the stamina cost for bucking as prey. Put the burden on the attacker, and remove the RNG.

[coarse blaze]

Not going to lie "Can't Sprint while Charge Bite is active" I don't hate, this makes it more defensive

[grizzled cave]

would be better all round genuinely.
Prey get a better buck that deals more stamina damage while essentially saving their own stamina.
Attackers don't have to worry about randomly dropping off and getting one shot.
Though I'd say the prey should have a small stam cost for bucking. but no more than the stam cost for sprinting.

[slim dragon]

@restive token I'd prefer the opposite
Make every other dino (and especially carno) have proper acceleration times

[restive token]

or this! its like i press run and galli say maybe tomorrow ^^"

[slim dragon]

Galli acceleration time is alright (maybe slightly slow, but since it's so fast it's okay for balance)
Others are too fast however

[dusky surge]

@steep echo while i think the utter removal of bleed was a tad too far, i can tell you right now that galli is still a killing machine without it

[dusky surge]

@lunar jetty diablo is 3 tons

[lunar jetty]

they nerfed it to 2 tons

are you dumb lol

[dusky surge]

no they didnt lol

where was this said?

[keen plover]

They haven't. It's 3t still

[vale brook]

"are you dumb" and confidently wrong is CRAZY

[lunar jetty]

annoucments

Pounce adjustments (Currently Omniraptor only)
Bucking adjustments
Nightvision update
Carnotaurus adjustments
Ceratosaurus adjustments
Diabloceratops adjustments
Troodon adjustments
Patrol Zones
Psittacosaurus AI
Pteranodon AI
Randomized Spawning
Pterodactylus Sound Traps
Eastern Port (WIP)
Swamp Biome Extension (WIP)
South Plains (WIP)

and even if am wrong I don't think a diabloceratops should stun 2x its weigh

[dusky surge]

"diablo adjustments"

so you just... guessed it was 2 tons, didn't check, then called me dumb?

[lunar jetty]

there was a sc that it was 2 tons.

at fg so.

@foggy arrow they are pack hunting animals, don't expect 1 omniraptor can kill a fully grown diabloceratops

[foggy arrow]

Look the dite is weak there health is weak. At least they should be able to fight more before you loose half your pack for one teno or cera or stego or carno. Hell even a Hera can one shot you.

[dusky surge]

if you're losing half your pack to a teno or carno, idk what to tell you, but that's absolutely not because omni's stats are low

[leaden remnant]

in order to play raptor, you need more skill than most other things

coordination, teamwork, communication, etcetera, are a must

a good pack of raptors will kill a ton of things, one that lacks in a specific aspect will die miserably

it's not a buff that's needed but an increase in your skill which can be easily achieved by playing in free admin servers where you can fight whatever you want

[tropic horizon]

yeah raptor lives and dies on its movement and if you aren't really good at that yeah you're gonna get folded so skill issue indeed

[dusky surge]

people need to play the fast and agile animal with the whole "fast and agile" part in mind over damage or health

want to rely on damage and health? play a dibble or a stego

[leaden remnant]

^^

[mint star]

this is insanely funny

[dusky surge]

i lost it when i realised what had happened too lmao

the most islecord interaction i think i've ever had

[vivid cedar]

Have a 2 ton vehicle ram into a 4 ton elephant and watch what happens

Sure the driver will die but so will the elephant same physics just an animal ramming another animal.

[slim dragon]

Um, if a boar can survive a full-speed hit with a car, I'm pretty sure a elephant will survive just fine as well

[lunar jetty]

6

6 ton elephent, and plus, it will do no dmg since a deer can survive a vechile ram into it

[hasty coyote]

whether its realistic or not isnt really a factor, the issue is that the stun allows diablo to punch up far more than it should. There is no reason for diablo to stun stegos other than spite against stegos. Even without the stuns, diablo is still a major threat to stegos because of its damage reduction and stegos increased headshot multiplier.

[vivid cedar]

Elephants can range from 4 tons to 14 the effect remains the same the elephant dies. And no deers don't survive head on collisions I have zero clue where you heard that but it is dead wrong. Now if the 2 tons is ramming into the center mass of the 6 tons it should stun it but that 2 tons ramming a leg or the head of the elephant and yikes.

[vivid cedar]

Boars don't survive those either. Yall are thinking if they get hit and sent flying over top of the car. Not head on collisions where the car crumples around the animal.

[golden coral]

@nimble notch There are more or less agile carnis and herbis, so maybe try something else. Smaller critters tend to be faster and more agile than larger.

[lunar jetty]

The point is that diabloceratops is overpowered

[vivid cedar]

Fair enough

[uncut trellis]

Is there any place where I can see exactly how much damage attacking moves deal in game?

There’s bite force but nothing else for other moves

[steep echo]

People mostly eyeball it or measure dinosaur health on admin servers

I doubt there's any in-game sheet of values

what move were you thinking?

[uncut trellis]

Say tenos kick, I heard it was nerfed but idk by how much

[vale brook]

it was 1.5 tons, 2 tons, and then 3 tons during ht

but yes diablo should not stun stego

[random ocean]

Does anyone know what a stego needs to do to hit troodons off their sides?

Been playing troodon and I've died twice to being hit by the tail while being latched

[lunar jetty]

get timing right, predict, and thats all. the only thing you can do to hunt a stego, fully grown one, you would need about 5 torrodons and insane skill, you guys need to wait till he swings, then you pounce on him, repeat the procces till he's dead.

[shadow vortex]

It could be desync (on their side you weren’t latched), could be a currently unknown bug, could be an earlier known bug (power swing ignores pouncing).

[steep echo]

Teno kick should be 275 unless nerfed like you said

[cosmic pelican]

It got nerfed to 250 in the latest HT

ALong with tail slam

But the alt attack got a slight dmg buff

[random ocean]

Okay

[nimble notch]

yeah i know but i'm not sure any carnivore right now that can 1v1 a stego or dibble just because the herbivore hits more than a carnivore. they also take way to many hits to kill. So basically if you want to kill things, it's easier to do it as a dibble/stego than as a dedicated ''hunter''

[slim dragon]

That's because stego and dibble are waay larger than any land carnivore right now

[nimble notch]

true but still i think it just feels strange as a full grown cera/carno to not be able to kill a herbivore.

so that's why i thought maybe a side/back dash for at least ''small'' carnivores would do some good since they get absolutly obliterated by pretty much anything.

[obtuse ocean]

WIll be plenty of stuff for them to kill when more playables are added, dibble you shouldt 1v1

[nimble notch]

i hope so :/

[hasty coyote]

Cera is meant to be more of a scavenger bully anyway, not entirely meant for hunting. Especially not against a stego or Diablo because of the size difference alone.

Carno is meant to be more of a small game bully. Its insane speed makes it have to be balanced against the smalls. If carno was able to fight a stego, then that means it would just obliterate anything smaller since it’s both faster and much much stronger (hence why the recent adjustment made it have worse stats)

The issue really is that we don’t have any land carnivores designed to hunt stego or Diablo. Allo should fill that niche, but we don’t know how far away it is.

Best thing we got to deal with either of them is a pack of Omnis, and those can def maul a lone Diablo or stego.

[slim dragon]

It can kill a herbivore
Just not a herbivore that is 3x its size

[obtuse ocean]

Think they need to adjust cera in someway, feel like its beeing more used as an offsensive attacker. Atlealst what i do and see others do

[hasty coyote]

That’s mostly due to bile being op. Once bile is actually tuned so that it’s nowhere near as good against larger dinos, it should be fine.

Even now, it’s only good at fighting bigger species when there’s a numbers advantage, skill diff, or stalling them out with vomit. And numbers advantage and skill diff apply to most matchups.

[obtuse ocean]

Maybe, but honestly i dont fear it. If they nerf the bile dmg as they should by the way. I dont see it beeing good vs much. I did kill one easy with dilo, even facetanked it two times and didnt even care about it

[hasty coyote]

Also Cera is just the strongest land carnivore stats wise so those who want to play big mean carnivore play it.

[hasty coyote]

Depends on the cera player. Bad ceras die easily because of their relatively low hp. Plus dilo clones were broken until recently so that they always hit, meaning that a cera could die because a dilo bit it 3 times at night and then spammed rmb.

[obtuse ocean]

Maybe, but still if i can facetank it two times as dilo. Two dilos, then cera is just free food more or less. Not much scav it can do.

If it supose to be defensive, should have a charge bite that does alot more dmg. But cant be used when running after something

[golden coral]

All good, just wanted to point out in case you felt that your chosen playable wasn't as agile as you would have liked. As for 1v1 a stego or diablo, well nothing in the game currently should be able to do so, since most are way smaller, and requires groups to punch up, most often at least. And the one larger critter we have can 1v1 stego and diablo, deino can after all lunge diablo at any time, and stego when it's swimming.

[obtuse ocean]

Erik you like playing stego, so im curios. What dino are you looking forward to the most ? : P

[golden coral]

Out of the entire roster? Out of herbi or carni? Any size criteria? Because my top three herbis are dryo, kentro (hopefully good "stego") and stego, and herrera, carno, and potentially acro for the carnis. And depending on if we get to keep stego or not, I am somewhat hopeful for para as well.

[obtuse ocean]

Nice good choices, yea all. Kentro can be really fun i think

[stark knoll]

@stone elbow I like that, you could also make it a scaling healing increase based on how full you are too

[stone elbow]

i thought about that too but feels like a punishment for hunting while not low hunger which is meh to me. ill hunt something as long as my stomach in game has space in it cause never know when next chance at a meal is or if youll even get to eat it

[stark knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/nodding-kermit-uh-huh-gif-19083131

[dusky surge]

I think of it more as a reward for resting after a successful hunt

kill the thing
fill your belly
rest
get crazy fast healing so when your hunger does go down, you're healed up for the next hunt

For example, a 15% health regen that scales with your hunger, so 50% hunger would just give you a 7.5% regen buff and so on

[stone elbow]

Yeah I def read the comment wrong/misunderstood if thats what he meant lmao

[lament hollow]

Can I ask why people don't want us to spawn with more hunger? I understand the "don't let people sit in a bush," but I feel like there are better ways of doing that than spawning low hunger when the AI is janky. Then again, my activity has been spotty the last few months. Asking out of curiosity.

[distant torrent]

ideally we get more players to a server so you get your food through either scavenging or hunting more “easily” since the likeliness of running across players or dead things is higher. spawning with more hunger feels too hand-holdy and deletes some of the difficulty of carnivores first starting out

starvation should always be a true threat for carnivores. not everyone will make it past fresh spawn stage with carnivores, which is how it needs to be even if some people don’t like it

purely my own opinion that I’ve had for a long time

[lament hollow]

I see. I can agree with that. I don't think starvation should be such a major threat as a fresh spawn, but I can agree it should always be something we're wary of. Spawning with full hunger is a bit much, too. I see what you mean. Thank you!

[hollow topaz]

I personally don’t like the idea because of the current diet system.. we barley have enough room in our stomachs to get the other two diets (since we start with hex) as is, if we’re any more full we start to miss out. Unless you get lucky with organs, I suppose

[distant torrent]

#balance-feedback message

honestly I don’t think carno needs those buffs. it’s scarily good as it is right now. after many hours of playing it, it’s an absolute nightmare for anything cera sized or smaller lol

genuinely I’d advocate for some kind of nerf to give the little guys a chance like charges for ram (like what dryo has. the regen time for them can be debated)

[dusky surge]

people forget that carno moves faster than it did before while charging. Almost 60km/hr without speed muts while charging

If it had its old speed, that would be nearly 70km/hr

[distant torrent]

absolutely brutal

[leaden remnant]

cant really get diets

[leaden remnant]

carno is the worst it's ever been rn

the carno we had last patch was a million times better

carno rn is a prank/sneak peek

[cosmic pelican]

Me when the small game hunter can be solod by a dilo:

[lament hollow]

Ohhh very true I forgot about that

[dusky surge]

thats a complete overstatement lol

[leaden remnant]

me when the small game hunter can be soloed by hatchling troodon:

[dusky surge]

wow, two for one special lol

[leaden remnant]

wat

[dusky surge]

dw

[leaden remnant]

not really

[dusky surge]

ive been infinitely more successful on new carno. to call old carno "a million times better" is utter copium

[leaden remnant]

it's not copium, it's reality, but alr

[dusky surge]

lots of opinion in that reality

weird

[leaden remnant]

if we compare stats, purpose, etc, you'd know that the current one is complete ass

[dusky surge]

unless we base all of our balance opinions off what mr. youtuber in the sandbox fight club says, in which case, ya, carno stinky doo doo

[cosmic pelican]

These 2 definetly agree loll

[leaden remnant]

lolz

[leaden remnant]

which youtuber we talkin about

[dusky surge]

idk, whatever one made their most recent hot take about carno

[leaden remnant]

havent watched any balance videos in months so

the opinions i say are mine

[dusky surge]

at least you said they're opinions

that's all i needed to hear

[leaden remnant]

well you said base all of our balance opinions so

[dusky surge]

what does that mean

what is basing a balance opinion

[leaden remnant]

mb

[dusky surge]

im still confused

[leaden remnant]

dis

[dusky surge]

you screenshotting it doesn't ease my confusion

based on what

[leaden remnant]

i was not admitting that the fact that carno sucks rn is an opinion

[slim dragon]

based

[dusky surge]

yea, you calling old carno "a million times better" def is

because old carno sucked ridiculous ass

[leaden remnant]

well this one is a joke

[dusky surge]

the new carno is actually fun

first time in over a year i felt like playing it

[leaden remnant]

well im glad you enjoy it

[dusky surge]

old carno was balanced like current stego

horribly, with far too many punishments for doing what it was always meant to

[leaden remnant]

i agree with you on that

however the current version is not a fix to it

it's a worse version of it besides the ram

[dusky surge]

its still an inherit improvement. Minor stat buffs here and there and we're perfect

oh, and a hard nerf to grapple

[leaden remnant]

wouldn't call it an improvement tbh

besides ram tbh

[dusky surge]

when it's objectively more fun, and better at what it's meant to do, i'd say it is

[leaden remnant]

the fun thing is more of an opinion tbh

[dusky surge]

i dont give a rats ass about viability when enjoyability is always more important

[leaden remnant]

and it's not better at what it was meant to do with the speed n stuff

if it was tweaked then it would be amazing at killing small things

but we gotta wait for that

[dusky surge]

funnily, its capable of outrunning 1.8 ton carno by a significant margin without any mutations

[crystal pulsar]

nerf cera pls and buff raptors

[distant torrent]

I’ve obliterated more things than I ever have with the new carno compared to the old one

I’ve obliterated packs of omnis and packs of dilos with ease along with pachies lol the only things you can’t touch is deino, stego, teno, and diable and that’s fine

ceras get absolutely demolished

old carno had asthma with its ram

ram in, ram out, rinse and repeat

you can’t be touched if you play your cards right

dilos and omnis have not been able to escape my carno 9 times out of 10 even in the woods (there are a few exceptions due to the many rocks and trees to get stuck on)

if you have a carno buddy then you’re death incarnate for the playables smaller than teno

[glossy elbow]

Yeah I think that's just the forests in game needing work. Such a pain to navigate some forests due to the amount of rocks in some places

[distant torrent]

yea I want to have a little chat with the person who thought it’d be nice to add rocks every 5 feet to get stuck on lol

I just want to ask why

[glossy elbow]

Pain

[cosmic pelican]

Also the entirety of highlands

[cosmic pelican]

#balance-feedback message God I wish😭

120hp troodon was peak, even tho it broke every fundamental rule of the game

[vale brook]

closer to perfect diet galli without mutations, i managed to outrun carno charge as galli with speed mutations

[unique oyster]

pteradon

if any of its preferred food actually spawned, idk like fish spawning in the ocean that it tends to spawn near it would be playable.

has anyone ever seen a crab?

the only time i've ever been able to kill an animal it was sea turtle even then about a 5 minute ordeal .

[unique oyster]

never mind, i found a place where sandcrabs spawn, this is amazing

still probably the worst dino in the game. though

[leaden remnant]

i meannnnnnnn

not correct

anyone with basic combat notions will absolutely be able to damage you and kill you

doing it with the old carno was easier due to better stats

sure, ram was complete ass, but at least it did some really decent damage

[glossy elbow]

What is its damage right now for everything? I forgot

[distant torrent]

my week long experience before going back to teno for now doesn’t line up with that but different experiences ig

my only carno deaths were either from taking cannies with me to the grave, being dumb and trying tenos, and being dumb and not paying mind to a pachy who was in a mixpack

[leaden remnant]

i see

from what ive been able to see, you can go in and ram a small thing, knock it down, damage it, but limited speed, awful turn radius, 500 less hp with the consequential blood pool decrease, and so on, don't make it a good small game hunter

[distant torrent]

I haven’t had issues with the turn because the slide is godsend

[tropic horizon]

I still do not understand what the point of nerfing its speed was like, buhh?

[glossy elbow]

Because it's charge compensates for it

[distant torrent]

^

[leaden remnant]

sure, the slide is amazing, but a decent small thing will always be able to troll you if you get what i mean

[distant torrent]

probably a carno that isn’t quite decent

[leaden remnant]

well tbh ram should give like a 5% speed increase max but its speed should be brought back to 55.6

[leaden remnant]

considering that even a player with 5 hours in the game can already juke most of the carnos, i dont know bout that

[distant torrent]

you’d be surprised how many bad carnos I’ve seen. I’m not skilled, but I can recognize when people aren’t very.. good, to say the least lol

[tropic horizon]

I mean, cool I guess. Still not a huge fan of the changes since it just locks you into charging to get around which isn't super cool. Though its not like the worst change ever.

[leaden remnant]

ofc, most carno players play it cause big fast intimidating thing with a built in thomas the train ability

hear me out

[tropic horizon]

👂

[distant torrent]

no

(kidding)

[leaden remnant]

speed back to 55.6
either ram damage brought back or knockdown within 0.75 seconds windup
update 4.5-5 (dont remember) turn speed back

and the frickin hitbox fixed

that would make it what dondi said it would become

[distant torrent]

was the hitbox not scaled down when carno was scaled down?

[leaden remnant]

an absolute nightmare on plains

[tropic horizon]

also can the stupid multi hit ram be removed cause that stuff is so uncool

[leaden remnant]

im not sure, it might have been, but it's still balls

[tropic horizon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102619485334143006/1292126288445702206/carno_1.gif

[leaden remnant]

... like literally every hitbox in the game but

[glossy elbow]

Yeah a problem I've had when hunting smalls is not doing enough damage by the time they manage to go in a forest

[leaden remnant]

gaming

[tropic horizon]

THE CARNOTAURUS stomps the competition

[glossy elbow]

So a slight damage increase would be nice

[leaden remnant]

update 5 carno iirc was the peak small game hunter imo

it would annihilate them on the plains, which, well, were pretty damn frequent

[distant torrent]

absolutely punted

first hit was painful but that second was straight up disrespect

[tropic horizon]

I never got to play update 5 carno but wasnt it just update 4.5 carno but like slightly nerfed? Or what was different about it Im not aware.

[distant torrent]

wasn’t update 5 carno the one with the moon sized hitbox

[leaden remnant]

i can't recall the exact update number but carno was 1.8 tons, 55.6 km/h, (normal stats) but with way better agility

so it wouldnt have to slide everywhere it goes

it would actually be able to turn

pretty much dilo agility but slightly worse

[tropic horizon]

I just recall update 4.5 carno being much more agile and then when update 5 carno dropped it was just that, but with a nerfed ram and blood pool.

[keen plover]

Movement wise it was the same as 4.5

Carno's movement from 4.5 to 5.5 was the same. It was nerfed in update 6

[leaden remnant]

also ram was functional (insta knockdown/stun) but poor acceleration iirc?

[tropic horizon]

Update 6 carno...

[keen plover]

lol horrible creature

[tropic horizon]

I fear no other iteration of carno more than that thing

[keen plover]

honestly they peaked with update 5 carno. They just needed to change charge lol

[tropic horizon]

I find it funny that this happened, then like EVERY other iteration of carno from there on out was 100 times worse.

[keen plover]

hilarious honestly

[tropic horizon]

I mean at least its not raptor whose like, never had a single balanced iteration from my memory besides maybe 3.75 raptor?

[leaden remnant]

also uh rn im a 500kg carno that runs at 45.8 km/h with speed mutation

i dont think i should be this slow

[glossy elbow]

That's slow?

[tropic horizon]

Yeah thats uncool

[keen plover]

nah omni has never been balanced. It's either been busted or terrible

[leaden remnant]

for a carno bigger than a raptor yes

[keen plover]

3.75 bleed was insane lol

[tropic horizon]

Oh right I almost forgor 3.75 raptor got folded in one carno charge lmao

[keen plover]

500 damage charge moment

[tropic horizon]

and cant forget old alt bites which were lightning fast as well so you could never get a proper opening

[keen plover]

also i don't see a reason to not buff carnos base speed. Just make it so the charge speed is the same as now

[glossy elbow]

Yeah true

[keen plover]

💀

[shadow vortex]

Maybe they need to give carno different speed curve back? Like when it’s faster as sub, hm.

[hasty coyote]

Carno should not be faster while sub. A smaller faster carno with more stam is just a monster. We have seen it before, and it was generally better than an adult in most matchups.

[shadow vortex]

Welp at that time its ram was way more powerful overall and balance in general was quite different. But I get your point. Probably a slightly faster increment in speed during growth time would hit the spot instead.

[eager saddle]

#balance-feedback message why would you ever suggest breaking bones of omnis and taking damage from that when a well aimed shot literally oneshots an omni ( welp the suggestion is gone now)

doing damage to yourself with your only mechanic seems like a quick way to kill the dino

[blazing swallow]

is it just me or is deino just... op. like good luck if one grabs you, because you're doomed.

[tall bronze]

I wouldn't call it OP, more so just kinda cheesy.

[eager saddle]

literally the only way how they can catch you and they need the element of suprise

[blazing swallow]

I mean, not that tricky. There aren't that many water sources, and they're all deep and it's impossible to see into. So unless you happen to see one, you just gotta hope for the best.

[eager saddle]

there are SO many undeep spots mate

just dont drink directly at the river and you'll manage

[blazing swallow]

I mean, tiny spots near the edges. But it takes about 2 seconds to get past that and get snatched. I was at a fairly small pond and there were two decent sized gators in it. Dunno how they got there but it sure as heck wasn't the river

[vale brook]

anyone who plays deino knows you're lucky to see a player once every hour, depending on where you are

it defintely feels op but for what they are, i understand why it's like that

[warm flax]

imo this is what makes deino so fun to play
you make plans and approach those careless herd and wait for the right moment to strike

[dusky surge]

honestly, the only buff I want for deino is a hunger buff

I fully believe deinosuchus should have the slowest hunger drain in the entire game

And with the upcoming changes to growth, it means deino still can't AFK grow, while being a very gator-esque playstyle as an adult

[warm flax]

right now the hunger drop is not so bad (I believe its 1h 30mins to go from 100 to 0?)
with the nutrition decay slower mutation ,its easier to manage dots and // while waiting for its prey
I think its gameplay will get more polished once the new nutrition system (no longer need to fill the slot to 100 in order to activate its benefit) adds in

[eager saddle]

They can be in ponds but it usually requires saltwater or almost dying. Point is, there are a lot of safe spots and getting grabbed just usually means you were unlucky

[cosmic pelican]

Or just uh... get either reabsorption or reticulate kidneys and forget that deino even exists LOL

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

why not let it grow faster instead lol

rather than make it old carno but disgustingly OP

300 ram damage, with current ram? Hell no lol

[blazing swallow]

i've taken to staking out water sources and watching them to be sure they're safe. so far... i am a thirsty dino because i don;t know how these deinos get to these way the heck away from any other water ponds, but they're in all of them

[dusky surge]

deino players are extremely tenacious and spend hours simply figuring out how to get to new ponds, using mutations, growth stages and pathing lmao

it's wild

[blazing swallow]

that's so crazy to me. and then what, just sit there for hours on end waiting and hoping that a dino comes to drink

[dusky surge]

yes, for the possible satisfaction of absolutely nuking a poor soul who thought it safe

deino mains are fully committed to the act of being a big gator

[hasty coyote]

I rarely play deino, but its genuinely so damn funny to be out in the middle of nowhere and manage to yoink someone who was just not expecting a deino to get there. Also pretty rewarding as it takes a good bit of effort to grow and also get yourself out to those more remote locations.

[mint star]

god bless the gator brains

playing ambush dinnersuchus like it was intended is moderately entertaining to me, even if i have to alt tab into discord while i wait

but who is to say that alligators and crocodilians dont do that in real life while waiting for prey

[dusky surge]

afking as deino is lore-accurate

[mint star]

the real reason why AE collapsed(?) was because the dinnersuchus' kept leaking important files and details on their discord servers

[steep echo]

I'd argue pachy vs raptor is actually carnivore-sided. Raptor has no missed attack punishment, while pachy is vulnerable for over a second

[leaden remnant]

i meannnnn if the pachy hits once the raptor is in a dire situation

if the raptor pounces, the pachy just needs to buck him off or throw him off using terrain

[steep echo]

Eehh, it is a pretty big if. There is some random chance to account for in bucking, and some inconsistencies in fracture placement.
Putting those two aside, I think raptor has it better without that pounce staggering

[leaden remnant]

nah pachy has the upper hand

even with bucking being rng, he isn't thrown off, he just gets to your side, which is a free hit

pachies are way more dangerous than most ppl think, however good players typically don't play pachy, which leads to most pachies dying miserably

a good pachy will be able to do tremendous amounts of damage to ceras/carnos, so you can imagine how badly raptors would have it against it in a 1v1

[dusky surge]

there aren't many good pachies because they're playing better animals

why get good at an animal that's bad?

especially an animal that currently gets invalidated based on literal mutation choices

[steep echo]

The world was better before photosynthetic tissue

[dusky surge]

there's also the fracture resist mutation and the "take less damage from larger creatures" mutation

[hasty coyote]

Take less damage from larger creatures actually works on pachy for Omni, very balanced mutation.

[dusky surge]

that's the point i was making ya

pachy's already pathetic damage reduced further 😊

[coarse blaze]

#balance-feedback message Tell me you don't play pachy without telling me you don't play pachy

[dusky surge]

i want you to understand that MOST herbivore balance complaints are made without actually PLAYING the herbivore

that's why stego keeps getting nerf requests, because I guarantee those people NEVER play it (can't blame them though, it's absolutely godawful to play)

[glossy elbow]

for right now yeah

[coarse blaze]

You're right, you're right.

We should introduce the fear debuff whenever a carnivore looks in the direction of an herbivore, herbivores are too strong and should not NEVER kill carnivores. They are food, it does not make sense. 😔

Aggressive herbivores aren't realistic!

https://tenor.com/view/beasts-of-bermuda-kaperoo-the-isle-path-of-titans-gif-23526654

[glossy elbow]

yeah all herbivores are all very kind and gentle and none of them would ever even hurt a fly

obviously

[dusky surge]

it's so weird how people still rag on stego and pachy, ESPECIALLY pachy given how that animal is near extinct atm

[glossy elbow]

yeah I think most people are just really bad at the game tbh

[coarse blaze]

I recently popped pachy on one of the free grow servers and I genuinely have no idea how it died as fast as it did. I got pounced by one raptor, lost RNG and died within a minute. It wasn't bleed so I assume it was all LMB

I genuinely wish shadowplay worked half the time because that would have gone into here

[dusky surge]

pachy is exceptionally vulnerable to most predators, it's reliant on ambush tactics of attacking first

if it is ambushed, it's already mostly screwed

[glossy elbow]

yeah sucks it got nerfed so hard

it was really strong too strong but it got nerfed too hard and it hasn't really been touched I don't think

[coarse blaze]

I know I had an "overly confident" and overly aggro pachy try and kill my carno, it didn't work. It crippled me and still died.

I had a duo of pachys try to kill my teno, it didn't work.

Pachy isn't the OP monster people LOVE to say it is, even against raptors. Failing at RNG isn't suddenly making it God.

[dusky surge]

i find it funny that both pachy and carno suffered from being complete ass and carno got a whole-ass rework while pachy rotted (yes, you can argue that new carno is worse than old carno all day, frankly I do not care because it's more fun than old carno)

[glossy elbow]

yeah I still think it should have something for it's charges to avoid stuff like charge spamming but it is really fun rn

[dusky surge]

atm, it doesn't really need a cooldown

[glossy elbow]

oh yeah because doesn't it do way less damage then it did so it doesn't really justify it needing a cooldown?

[dusky surge]

it does do less damage

which i'm glad because i despised nuke charge

[glossy elbow]

yeah makes me glad the game is early access so basically anything could change in the future

so there's always room and a chance for improvement

[coarse blaze]

I actually really enjoyed carno, I killed nearly a whole pack of raptors depsite getting instantly pinned at the start.

I still died of course but killing a few before going down did feel rather nice

[glossy elbow]

yup might as well go out fighting then just accepting that your going to die

[hasty coyote]

pachy is just incredibly polarizing, it either gets a leg break and beats you to death with nothing you can do, or it doesnt get a leg break and dies. Generally the latter happens.

[dusky surge]

@analog mirage #balance-feedback message

Salty, I love you, but I wish you'd use percentages more because this suggestion fails to really make any mathematical sense lmao, and once again, fails to account for the fact that juvis exist

[hasty coyote]

so people just get beat to death once or twice and immediately go to balance feedback to rage after a lucky leg break.

(almost like the fractures need a rework because they need to be way overturned with their current effects to actually do their job)

[dusky surge]

fracs being as good as they are ironically makes pachy need to be weaker

[hasty coyote]

exactly, they take up WAY too much of pachy's power budget. I can't imagine how awful other dinos with these fractures would be to balance. Like imagine rex having the ability to leg fracture

[dusky surge]

to be honest, i highly doubt rex will get fracture again

pin seems to be the new name of the game

[hasty coyote]

If fractures were reworked I can def see it working, especially since most people I have talked to seem to want Rex to have fractures like legacy.

If fractures are not changed, then Rex should def never be given fractures.

[leaden remnant]

more fun animals

pachy isnt bad besides being clunky as crap

most good players enjoy decently big things (ceras, carnos, sometimes tenos) and not small things like raptors, pachies, etc

[dusky surge]

its clunky and bad

it can do both

[leaden remnant]

it's not necessarily bad besides certain aspects

it's just not something that you would main or actively try to get better in when theres more fun choices with more options and playstyles

pachy gives you the bonk and run playstyle, most good players enjoy having fights, so ofc they wouldn't play pachy, it's a bonk once get da heck away

[slim dragon]

(a playstyle that only works against things that you don't need to run away from in the first place because the bonk is so bad in most cases)

[leaden remnant]

me when i hit a carno in the face and it gives a body fracture

me when i hit a carno in the legs and it gives a head fracture

dont know how we got to this point but we got to this point

[dusky surge]

more fun and better choices

[leaden remnant]

eh, was playing pachy not much ago and it really wasnt bad

did some crazy damage alongside others

basically murdered everything besides stegos dibbles and deinos

but it's not something that you would always play

the only attractive it has is making someone's life absolutely miserable in a single hit

[dusky surge]

it also used to actually be able to fight omniraptors rather than fracture them and then flee because if the raptor gets first hit it dies, that was fun

[leaden remnant]

it can still fight raptors tho

[dusky surge]

you're right, it can fight them, so can a hypsi

[leaden remnant]

if you fracture the raptor there's minimal risk of dying

unless youre talking about fighting 4 raptors then it's not even difficult

2 raptors for example, almost regardless of their skill a pachy who actually knows how to fight will always win

even if it's just two body fractures, you can easily take great advantage of it and the raptors will run out of stamina in absolutely no time

[dusky surge]

okay but i'd rather if the pachy could KILL the raptors LMAO