balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

skilled players pick cerato on the select screen

bad players select tenonto

it's simply a skill diff

[opaque vine]

Huh

[leaden remnant]

yea i agree but uh

rn it punches up without corpses

[opaque vine]

Being 300 kgs lighter dosent make you inherently inferior. Dk why you mentioned that

[opaque vine]

I wouldn’t exactly say that puking teno is punching up. There’s barely a size diffrence

[dusky surge]

it doesn't make you inherently a god comparatively either

[leaden remnant]

what bout instapuking a dibble

[glossy elbow]

Should take like 4ish bites to make a teno puke and like 2 or so for carno since it's around the same weight as cera

[opaque vine]

You can still fight a cerato with what I suggested, it takes time to fully charge a bite and that’s more than enough for you to do some serious damadge

[opaque vine]

That’s complete bs. It should insta puke tenos with a fully charged bite since they have many ways to evade it. Dibble dosent have much

[dusky surge]

did you know that cerato could still fight and kill teno BEFORE the instapuke? It required skill but it could be done!

Crazy that

[stark knoll]

Yea I'm just gonna get close to the cerato while it's charging a bite

Yea

[regal tulip]

Like there is no way you think ceras bile is remotely balanced right now

[opaque vine]

Takes like 4 fully charged bites to kill a teno. It’s like you’re forgetting that they can kill you in 2 combos which shouldn’t be all that hard to pull off

[dusky surge]

Then play around said combos lol, you don't need ez stunlock to be good at cerato

[regal tulip]

You vomit after being bit in tip of your tail and then get vomit locked, the issue here is that you CAN'T fight back

[opaque vine]

Teno is the same thing lol. It relies on getting free cheap shots

[dusky surge]

Like hell it does

Cerato's charge bite is far easier and more consistent to hit than any of teno's moves

[burnt cloud]

They buffed cera this patch thinking it was scaling 🙏😭

[dusky surge]

Teno gets a full attack lockout if it dares miss a tailslam

[dusky surge]

Worst part is, it was supposed to perform WORSE against teno, IDK how this happened

[regal tulip]

Some major miscalculations happened there

[dusky surge]

failed on all counts

[opaque vine]

It comes at a cost. It takes time to charge up while teno has a much longer range and faster attacks. It can attack stuff while protecting its head aswell. Massive advantage

[shadow vortex]

Idk how that passed through QA though.

[burnt cloud]

Real when they said they scaled cera bite to weight I thought it was a nerf but it’s buff most small tiers (most of the roster) Puke in one bite and teno with 2 normal bites

[opaque vine]

Tenos kick are pretty easy to land now

[burnt cloud]

🙏😭

[leaden remnant]

but then it makes it a great hunter

[shadow vortex]

There's really no scaling on bites or it's a "anything that weights more than 5999 kgs takes 2 bites to vomit" scaling lol.

[leaden remnant]

if they dont want it to be a hunter, why make it one

[dusky surge]

it comes at no such cost lol

it is so easy to land a charge bite that i find it wild that you even believe this

[opaque vine]

No, it can’t chase things down which is the basic requirement for a hunter. It’s also a horrible ambusher as it’s strongest attack alerts the whole island

[opaque vine]

It is but so is tenos kick

[leaden remnant]

well it can chase stegos down for example

[opaque vine]

Never said it was hard to land a bite

[dusky surge]

teno's kick is far harder to land lol

[regal tulip]

Ambush with 2 normal bites out a bush, same result

[opaque vine]

Not anymore

[dusky surge]

still is

[opaque vine]

Nerf bite bile

[dusky surge]

if we're comparing it to charge bite, it's harder

[dusky surge]

and charge bite bile

nerf bile

[burnt cloud]

All together

[opaque vine]

Not by that much anymore, the hitbox got significantly increased

[dusky surge]

if you genuinely cannot win a fight without getting an instant advantage in the first hit against a tenonto idk what to tell you

[burnt cloud]

Bile should be nerfed if they keep it like this

[glossy elbow]

Yeah

[opaque vine]

The fact that it can kill a cera in 2 combos should be enough. But no the cera should need to bite it multiple times to get a thing faster than it to leave (it puts its life on the line while defending itself)

[dusky surge]

ceratosaurus, as it stands, is a complete and utter fun vacuum

"oh, there's cerato, and it bit me twice, there goes those diets that matter so much to everything i do in this game"

[regal tulip]

Servers are literally getting flooded by ceras because the only counter play to that bite is not being able to puke yourself

[dusky surge]

lmao

well if you have an ez win carnivore vs other animals, you're gonna pick mr ez win

[glossy elbow]

Too strong when you take into consideration what puking an dino does. Takes away everything needed for survival which in a game like this is deathly important.

[opaque vine]

Not really, food is abundant for herbis and water shouldn’t be an issue

[dusky surge]

Simply just eat all the time because of cera paranoia

[glossy elbow]

More of an issue for carnivores

[dusky surge]

Remember, if you AREN'T eating, you are now cera food, idiot

[opaque vine]

Or use your ears and don’t fight it

[regal tulip]

Idk if you played lately but I don't see any food as a herbi rn

[burnt cloud]

It’s a even bigger issue for carnivores 🙏💀

[dusky surge]

Or, better yet, have it take more than just one charge bite to puke it

[burnt cloud]

You can tell he mains cera

[glossy elbow]

Yeah because getting food as a carnivores takes quite a bit of effort if it isn't ai

[dusky surge]

if it were up to me it'd take 2-3 charged bites to puke a tenonto using the equation I made up for it

Bacteria % = 30 x (cerato weight/victim weight)

[opaque vine]

Why though? A teno can quickly dispatch it in only 2 combos. You’re taking a pretty massive risk going in for multiple bites

[burnt cloud]

Especially as a growing carnivore it slows the process of growing by 10

[opaque vine]

I don’t main cerato

[regal tulip]

This has to be bait at this point

[dusky surge]

A cerato can easily dodge those attacks, and why is mr cerato challenging alive tenonto as a non-hunter

[opaque vine]

Who?

[dusky surge]

Very unconvincing

[burnt cloud]

😭🙏 u on to something

[opaque vine]

I don’t need to believe me. Bring good arguments to the table instead of speculations and theories about what I main

[dusky surge]

given that cerato could puke and dispatch of tenos before this patch, why now is it absolutely NECESSARY that it instapukes teno?

Why lower the skillfloor for cerato when tenonto and it actually had a matchup that was skill reliant

[opaque vine]

And a teno can easily dodge a charged bite. Hold shift + W when it gets close

[regal tulip]

Was literally the most fun matchup for a 1v1

[burnt cloud]

Is even worth it to argue with him when he loves cera so much he can’t even see the problem

[opaque vine]

I don’t

But sure

[burnt cloud]

Not talking to u

[dusky surge]

It can't, because of acceleration and it's very minimal speed, it WILL take a bite to it if it doesn't INSTANTLY react (or just it can't do anything at all) and get instapuked, taking arond almost half its health in one go

Aweseome, simply don't play tenonto next time stupid

[glossy elbow]

How do you feel about having herbivores actually have to look for food rather than straight b lining for it like how it is now? Basically the range at which you can smell food is reduced

[opaque vine]

Because cerato dosent have many ways to evade it. The teno has the luxury of being able to chose when the fight starts

[dusky surge]

it has tons what

[opaque vine]

Run and kick. Now it can’t bite you from behind and is forced to get your sides which it’s not fast enough to do

[regal tulip]

Cera is literally the biggest griefer ever, just run around biting people and see their precious diets vanish lmao

[opaque vine]

Name them

[regal tulip]

Tail bite

[dusky surge]

Agility, swimming, the insane damage it does via charge-bite/alt-bite, the bile that is still scary even if it doesn't instapuke

[opaque vine]

If a cera tail rides a teno i’m afraid that there’s a problem

[regal tulip]

You can bite the tip while running?

+there's a place where the tail doesn't have a slam hitbox

[dusky surge]

Cerato tailriding tenonto has been a consistent issue, so much so that they had to nerf cerato in stress test

[opaque vine]

Teno has good enough agility to keep up and swimming is extremely situational

[opaque vine]

Yea I know

[opaque vine]

But if it’s close to your legs then what are you doing lol. Kick it

[regal tulip]

RMB should give teno a speedboost while swimming and stagger dinos behind it, that tail should be useful in water

[dusky surge]

Alright. Here's my moral of the story

Cerato can be threatening without being obnoxious. Instapuking teno? Obonoxious

Taking a few bites to puke teno? Threatening

[opaque vine]

Insta puking? It takes time to charge up

[opaque vine]

Yup considering it can 2 shot you

[dusky surge]

They nerfed all of tenonto's damage this patch

:)

[distant torrent]

wait they did??

[opaque vine]

How much are they now

[dusky surge]

Oh boy they did

[distant torrent]

what

[dusky surge]

Cerato was apparently struggling too much against it's inferior

[tidal jacinth]

it also has a 2 ish second cooldown on all attacks after it tail slams

[dusky surge]

Yup, that still hasn't been fixed

Genuinely SHOCKED anyone plays tenonto. Cerato is that, better, and more

[distant torrent]

no way

denial is the first stage no way I’m in the first stage

what’s the new damage

[dusky surge]

Damage? Cerato does more

Ease of use? Cerato

Stats? Cerato

Other misc buffs? Would you believe it, cerato

Survivability? Haha wow look at that it's cerato

Aquatic ability? Guess who it is

[glossy elbow]

Teno

[dusky surge]

WRONG

BIG X ON THE CHALKBOARD

[glossy elbow]

Lol

[dusky surge]

PICK A GOOD ANIMAL NEXT TIME

LIKE CERATO

[glossy elbow]

Truer words have never been said

[opaque vine]

The way I see it there’s no reason for a teno to even be fighting a cerato in the first place. Why shouldn’t a cera be able to puke it with a fully charged bite

[burnt cloud]

Maybe they get hunted???

[shadow vortex]

Wait what, why the Teno's damage was nerfed wtf?

How much is the kick now? I remember it was 275 before.

[regal tulip]

Cuz carno matchup

[dusky surge]

It's smaller. Cerato can surprise you. And if it does, you instantly lose. That's kinda LAME

[shadow vortex]

Hmm, but how much?..

[dusky surge]

I actually believe you when you say you aren't a cerato main now

[distant torrent]

I can’t find it in the patch notes so if it did get nerfed then it’s a shadownerf

[dusky surge]

Because anyone who's played it can tell you how much a skilled cerato already kicked teno's ass before these buffs

[shadow vortex]

I feel like they always alter such values by shadowing it lol.

[opaque vine]

Tenos combos are far superior than cerato so it technically takes damadge.
Survivabillity is not even close, tenos are fast during their vulnerable stages of growth while ceratos aren’t. They also don’t have to deal with cannis. They got better ways to evade things and they are just as fast in the water as a cera

[regal tulip]

Yeah wish the patch notes would be a bit more detailed ngl

[regal tulip]

They are slower in water

[opaque vine]

I mean if you get surprised and ambushed by a CHARGED BITE of all things. I’m afraid that you might have some problems

[distant torrent]

the only thing in the patchnotes regarding teno is its kickbox being extended and pattern c

[opaque vine]

Not by that much. They can also jump and don’t have to cover as much swimming

[tidal jacinth]

teno just suffers in general

[glossy elbow]

That'd be fine if the punishment for puking wasn't so high

[opaque vine]

Yea I know, I’ve done it multiple times pretty easily. They were bad tbf

[dusky surge]

who said charge bite? run in, 1-2, win

also resting

[tidal jacinth]

carno can kill it very easily just by charging the tip of its tail over and over, cerato destroys it every time, might as well just grow literally anything else

[opaque vine]

You got countless of ways to prevent it from happening though. You don’t see anyone complaining about stegos being able to one shot things. That’s because you’re not gonna find yourself in that type of trouble unless you wanted to fight it

[glossy elbow]

Yeah but stego is a stego

[dusky surge]

stop playing herbivores, stupid

[opaque vine]

Did you read my previous messages? I said that puking with regular bites is dumb and the bile should get decreased. However it should absolutely 100% make a teno puke in a CB

[dusky surge]

again, literally why

[opaque vine]

Ceratos charged bite can be heard all across the island. Why are you acting like they can only be heard when they’re up your face

[dusky surge]

beyond fulfilling some power fantasy

[tidal jacinth]

i love it when my prey's entire body hemorrhages because i smack their tail 🙂

[opaque vine]

Again, why do tenos need to have it easier against ceras? Just don’t fight IT

[glossy elbow]

Cera was not ever supposed to be strong enough to be able to fight a teno in the first place

[dusky surge]

Why do ceratos need to have it easier against tenos? Just don't fight it

[opaque vine]

Spectacular. The slower creature with not as many ways to evade the teno should be the one running. Not the teno itself with 10000 different escape options

[dusky surge]

"Slow creature"

It's a mere few meters slower than teno

[opaque vine]

Makes a big diffrence. The teno can outrun and outstam it

[dusky surge]

Then let cerato puke it in a mere 2-3 charge bites. That's heavy disuasion, especially since no one is ever realy on full food in an initial fight

Being able to instapuke teno spells disaster for animals like diablo and stego

Hell, all large creatures

Overtuned scaling enables overtuned combat

[opaque vine]

3 fully charged bites is ridiculous. My question here is why does the teno need to fight the cerato in the first place? There shouldn’t even be an encounter in the first place considering both of their niches

[dusky surge]

Then there should be no issue with no instapuke encouraging that encounter

If I have instapuke, I'm going to use it to hunt teno more

[glossy elbow]

Yeah

[opaque vine]

“Instapuking” takes like 8 seconds for the cerato to make the teno vomit

[coarse blaze]

I played teno a handful of times before the patch was put out, I genuinely didn't expect to instantly puke from a cera.

My second fight with one ended with me vomitting 3 times before I killed it.

[dusky surge]

Why would I not? The power is in my hands

[dusky surge]

Do you even know how charge bite works

[coarse blaze]

It's basically an instant vomit

[opaque vine]

Yea, all I’m saying is that the bite should be fully charged before making the teno puke

[dusky surge]

And it fully charges in like

1 second

It's quite rapid, all things considered

[opaque vine]

Ngl it sounds like you just want to fight ceratos with your teno for sh!ts and giggles

[dusky surge]

It sounds like you just wanna fight tenos with your ceratos for the same reason

[opaque vine]

No, if I wanted that I would suggest a speed buff so that I’d keep up with them lmfaoo

[dusky surge]

I mean, might as well with your current ideas for cerato

All in

Really solidify teno as cerato's lesser

[glossy elbow]

For some reason

[shadow vortex]

This patch is like horrid (not working) migration system, horrid performance (80 -> 55 fps welcome), the return of fatal errors, horrid balance decisions (cera/galli/beipi/pachy), horrid bugs that became even worse (now if I get stuck food bug I can't do anything lol, before it disappeared after some time at least). The only nice thing I can point out is new NV, but on the other hand... This all could stay in testing for longer.

[opaque vine]

Based on what you’re saying. You want tenos to be able to fight them for the giggles and enjoyment.
You GOT the tools to survive the cerato I honestly don’t see the problem here. You don’t wanna puke? Then don’t engage. Nobody’s forcing you

[dusky surge]

You realise teno couldn't do this before the patch, right

And back then, in the dark ages, cerato couldn't instapuke teno

[opaque vine]

It’s more punished now as it should. Tenos weren’t that wary of ceratos before

[dusky surge]

It's wild that this period of history seems to have been lost to time

[dusky surge]

They were plenty wary lol

An unwary tenonto was a dead tenonto

[glossy elbow]

Why should tenos be that wary of a cera though?

[opaque vine]

Please answer me on why you were even fighting it in the first place. That’s all I wanna know

[opaque vine]

No, they could quickly dispatch the cerato. This instapuke will make them think thrice about engaging

[glossy elbow]

Tenos have been shown to be stronger than even carno solo. needing multiple for it to be able to challenge it. Why should cera be close to teno in any terms

And don't just say run away

[dusky surge]

Because it attacked me and I had young and needed to defend them

But I guess the tenonto should be wary enough to let its babies die when faced against the mighty CERATOSAURUS

[opaque vine]

You’re treating this all like it’s a pvp game where your forced to take out the enemy wave. You got the options to survive but your complaining.
“Tenos should be able to fight ceras because it’s funny! And I don’t wanna puke or suffer consequences”

[dusky surge]

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I said, spot on, I'm so glad you summarised my words in an unbiased and totally logical way

[opaque vine]

That’s right. Eat grass and live
Fight and you die

[dusky surge]

Don't brawl as the brawler guys

Know when you're outclassed, grass eater

[glossy elbow]

A lot of people currently at least play the game like that it should be considered

[dusky surge]

If you want a REAL brawler, he's right there in the carnivore menu 😎

[opaque vine]

Teno is a defensive animal that fights only if it has to. It brawls against things it cannot run away from

[opaque vine]

That’s righty

[dusky surge]

Cerato is a defensive animal that fights only when it has to (but not really because it's a carnivore therefor win win win better better better stop playing herbivores)

[opaque vine]

A little exaggeration I gotta say. If cerato was faster and the teno was forced to engage then the instapuking would be unreasonable. But that’s not the case

[dusky surge]

The instapuke is unreasonable regardless 😊

[glossy elbow]

With how punishing it is yeah

[dusky surge]

Video games are meant to be

Hold on here

Fun

If a cerato can beat teno fine with NO BILE

[opaque vine]

“Herbis should be superior and be able to beat carnivores even if they’re faster + got tons of way to evade it because carnivores are the big bad guys!😷”

[dusky surge]

Instapuking is kinda unreasonable, ya

[dusky surge]

Not at all what I said

Herbivores shouldn't be superior. They simply shouldn't be worthless and outclassed

Not even carno should have to suffer instapuke

[opaque vine]

Mate you just want tenos to fight ceratos for the fun of it without immediately being punished. That’s your whole premise

[glossy elbow]

Losing basically everything you need to live to just one or few bites is not fun even if you can run away most of the time

[dusky surge]

Really? Because I've never once said that

I'm surprised you seem to know my premise that not even I was aware of

Cerato

Can

Still

Fight

Teno

Without

Bile

If a cerato CAN'T do this, then it's not very good

And then, tenonto should run away, because that cerato is skilled

Not because "oh that's a cerato and it ruins my entire play session"

[opaque vine]

You did. Once again, tenos got multiple ways to evade it without puking. You basically don’t want to immediately be punished for picking a fight that could’ve been avoided

[dusky surge]

Rather "that's a skilled opponent and a legitimate threat"

[opaque vine]

A good teno>cerato
Also brb

[dusky surge]

I don't even play enough tenonto to have a preference for it. I legitimately am speaking from a "this is just lame for gameplay" standpoint

[glossy elbow]

Exactly

[dusky surge]

Let cerato be skilled, rather than carried

Why does the burden of skill fall on tenonto, the literal larger animal

Cerato is so much easier to play by default, and now the tenonto has to deal with an exceptionally punishng attack

To the point that even resting while a cerato has the potential to be nearby could spell disaster for you

Like it's just inciting paranoia because I guess teno deserves to get screwed specifically

No one else, just teno

[glossy elbow]

Please when you get a chance, somehow put this in general feedback since everyone that checks there needs to know this lol.

Just amazing to see something I 100% agree with

[dusky surge]

I mean, the general consensus is already "cerato shouldn't instapuke teno", so I'd be shouting to the masses at that point

[opaque vine]

You’re standpoint is essentially its unfun for the teno?

[glossy elbow]

It's unfun in general

Bile is important but shouldn't be the main thing that determines whether it is a good dino or not

[opaque vine]

Because

• it has multiple ways to evade it
• it shouldn’t even be interacting with ceratos considering it’s niche
• being slightly lighter dosent make you inherently inferior

[dusky surge]

What is tenonto's niche that entails this type of punishment of existence

Can't wait for cerato's rival, magy, to be added, only to be instapuked and die because lmao cera win

[opaque vine]

Kinda an exaggeration. You’re not punished for existing. You got countless ways to avoid the situation to begin with

[dusky surge]

play betser animal plox

[opaque vine]

Magy and cerato’s matchup aren’t comparable to teno V cera

[dusky surge]

explain how

magy is lighter than teno. it would also be instapuked. in fact, it would be puked easier

[opaque vine]

For one magy will most likely be slower and dosent have the option to pick the fight even if it wants to

[dusky surge]

yup, so get screwed, instapuke

[opaque vine]

An exception could be made

[dusky surge]

if teno gets instapuked, magy gets EXTRA instapuked

LMAO MAKE AN EXCEPTION BECAUSE WE KNOW IT'S THAT UNBALANCED

[glossy elbow]

Either way bile shouldn't be that strong

[dusky surge]

I love the fact that we're still ignoring that cerato was a legitimate threat to tenonto for every update before this one

[opaque vine]

Yea it’s unbalanced in this scenario. If you’re slower and don’t have anyways to evade it that’s just oppressive. Put your ignorance aside and think for a second

[dusky surge]

You're ignoring the fact that every other matchup is harmed by you doubling down on this power fantasy which never needs to exist

[opaque vine]

I don’t know about you but me personally, ceras we’re never a threat

[glossy elbow]

Doesn't matter if you can run away all that does matter is if you do get hit by it why should it be so punishing towards the opposing player?

[dusky surge]

Oh yea... that was back when cera took a medium of skill...

Yea okay I see

[glossy elbow]

You lose so much for the cera doing so little

[dusky surge]

Cerato needs to do less to gain more

It's just unfair that cerato needs to think about dodging rather than just run in, puke, repeat

[opaque vine]

You’re ignoring the fact that you’re not forced to engage with it. Your whole premise is basically that you want tenos to be able to fight them (for no reason other than giggles)

[dusky surge]

Also when cerato gets that puke, it has more stamina, meaning teno can now be run down

u lose haha

When ur in the select screen make sure not to pick tenonto again, okay?

[opaque vine]

You do realize that puking on low stamina restores some of it?

[opaque vine]

Might be a bug but you basically gain more lol

[dusky surge]

Oh, a bug! That justifies it!

I should've considered the bugs in this balance discussion

[opaque vine]

Yea then they can’t be run down like you said

[dusky surge]

Really my fault for not accounting for unintentional issues

[opaque vine]

Fair enough lol

[opaque vine]

Then don’t puke

Don’t fight it

Avoid the situation all together

By being aware

[dusky surge]

I won't if it's not easily given to cerato for free because he's just having it too hard having to fight his opponents rather than puke his opponent and win

[opaque vine]

Yea let’s not act like teno dosent have the fastest dps and all of its attacks can render the cera immobilized allowing free shots

[dusky surge]

Let's not act like cerato doesn't have far superior burst, insane DPS, and all of its attacks build up to the game's most brutal stun which can easily be comboed into because it's front facing rather than back facing, allowing for tons of free shots before retreating

Let's not act like teno's stun is anything compared to losing

Food, water, stamina, a metric ton of health, being put in a stunlock which prevents any action, etc

Cerato should never be aware, tenonto should

Cerato should never have to be careful to land its hits, tenonto should

Cerato should never require skill, tenonto should

[slim dragon]

cerato is carnivore
tenonto is herbivore
Idk why you're even trying to argue

[dusky surge]

God FORBID you face against ANY more than ONE cerato

[opaque vine]

• ceratos altbite is slow as hell compared to the machine gun teno has
• takes time to charge up while tenos attacks are instantaneous
• Cera can run out bile (meaning no stun) teno dosent have to worry about that
• cera has zero ambush potential while tenos does

[dusky surge]

TENO HAS AMBUSH POTENTIAL

[slim dragon]

I remember a time when a good teno could fight off 2 carnos

[dusky surge]

That is hysterical LMAO

[opaque vine]

Better ambush potential than cera I mean

[dusky surge]

It absolutely does not LMAO

I am losing my mind

[slim dragon]

Actually, teno is being made more realistic
Dude is about to lose a fight against one deinonychus with how things are going

[opaque vine]

It does. Unlike cera its strongest attack dosent alert the whole island

[dusky surge]

The tenonto's cunning ambush of running up, turning around, then kicking you, then running over, alt-biting you, and going "AHA ambush"

Compared to cerato running at you and pressing LMB, or pressing RMB if feeling spicy

[opaque vine]

If you get ambushed by a cera pressing RMB, there’s no saving u

[dusky surge]

If u get ambushed by a literal teno there is no saving you

Stego has better ambush potential

[opaque vine]

I’m not biased

[slim dragon]

If you get ambushed by a Teno who cannot crouch AND has to turn around before it can use its attacks on you, uh

[dusky surge]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-dragon-ball-thumbs-up-smiling-good-job-gif-15570312

[slim dragon]

Thanks for mentioning it, because I thought you were

[dusky surge]

I'm glad he said he wasn't, because I had a feeling from everything he said prior that he was

[opaque vine]

Tbf teno isn’t that tall anyways + it dosent necessarily have to turn around

[dusky surge]

If I were any wiser, I'd say he maybe was

[slim dragon]

Appearances can be deceiving

[opaque vine]

Depending on the angle ofc

[dusky surge]

And cerato is tall?

[slim dragon]

It doesn't ? Wait it can tailslam in front of itself now ? Has teno finally been turned into a proper glavenus ?

[eager saddle]

[opaque vine]

Chronically online individual

[dusky surge]

What

I sent a gif of Goku with a thumbs up

[opaque vine]

Not referring to it

[dusky surge]

Why is THAT the most offensive thing

[eager saddle]

Glavenus mentioned, opinion increased to neat

[opaque vine]

You can run and kick their head if you’re coming from behind

[dusky surge]

"It" is a HE, and his NAME is GOKU

[slim dragon]

You mean running past them and through their head without them noticing ? That's not an ambush, that's natural selection

[opaque vine]

My point is that a teno has ways to evade it. I don’t see an issue with a cera being able to induce the vomit sickness and instantly causing the teno to vomit with a fully charged bite
You’re whole premise is basically that you want to fight it for nothing but giggles.
This ain’t a pvp game where you’re forced to take out the enemy.
You got way more tools so use them

[dusky surge]

This ain't a PvP game where you're forced to take out an enemy, so cerato should be cautious aroun bigger things, while tenonto should be cautious around something that can direly impact its survival in a prolonged fight

Much like it was before this patch

[distant torrent]

https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/iIBAkyYDqsIKuelBF/d1337OB9B1wG?invite=cr-MSw2RTMsNDMyNTQ2Njcs

i did some quick testing and it seems like it got nerfed to roughly 176 for kick damage. 17 body kicks to kill a dibble (3000/17 = 176.47) and 9 body kicks to kill a teno (1600/9 = 177.77)

https://medal.tv/games/the-isle/clips/iIBZy1z2JOrUN9gjf/d1337Ctsv3WH?invite=cr-MSxkRTcsNDMyNTQ2Njcs

[opaque vine]

Again being slightly smaller dosent make you inherently inferior

[dusky surge]

Never said it did

My mouth is so full with all these words being put in there.

[opaque vine]

Implications. What’s wrong with teno being cautious even though it’s the bigger animal

[eager saddle]

It….is?

[dusky surge]

It already was and is

[hasty coyote]

I kinda skimmed through this convo before it devolved into name calling.
Cera doesn’t need insta puke against teno at all. Teno has more damage with its combos, but those combos are much harder to land because they require teno to be facing away from cera. This also means they can only be used defensively. Cera on the other hand has easier to land attacks that deal relatively similar damage and can be used aggressively. So the entire fight requires both parties to want to engage the fight, if either tries to flee, the other can not really pursue. With this in mind, the fight is pretty balanced even without bile. Cera has to bait attacks then land a hit themselves, land a few and the teno vomits and is now very low on hp. Just don’t be greedy and try to face tank a teno, and bail if the fight looks bad.

[opaque vine]

I don’t know about you but ceras we’re never a threat

[eager saddle]

Wait teno isnt bigger than cera

[dusky surge]

Then you've never once fought an actual cerato that genuinely knew how to play their animal. Which isn't surprising, given how low the bar has been dropped for their skill level

[dusky surge]

Mhm

[hasty coyote]

Yep, teno is 1.6 and cera is 1.3

[opaque vine]

Are you skilled

[slim dragon]

Alternative, puke could be reworked to not be usable as a stunlock

[opaque vine]

Let’s go a few rounds

[eager saddle]

Like height? It sure doesn’t look that way

[dusky surge]

Weight.

[hasty coyote]

In weight, 1.6 tons rather than 1.3 tons

[dusky surge]

As a cerato v teno? We all know how that'll go

[eager saddle]

Is that what classifies it as larger species?

[dusky surge]

Cerato gets handed its participation award of a win

[opaque vine]

That’s true but my whole premise is that the fight dosent need to happen at all. You got multiple ways to evade it

[opaque vine]

Are you good with cera?

[hasty coyote]

Idk what ceras you were fighting but they have always been a threat since release, and teno has only received nerfs since then. It’s probably the most fair 1v1 in the game.

[eager saddle]

Damn guess I’ll not take reduced damage from larger species anymore

[dusky surge]

OH YEA, THAT MUTATION ALSO MEANS YOU EZ BEAT TENONTO

Thanks for reminding me that cerato has every advantage

[eager saddle]

You’re welcome I guess😅

[dusky surge]

Genuinely one of the most engaging fights butchered because tenonto is NOT allowed to have engaging matchups

[opaque vine]

We’re discussing the base forms of these dinos lmao. Mutations shouldn’t be taken into account

[eager saddle]

But bugs should be?

[opaque vine]

You can’t balance things around mutations

[eager saddle]

Huh?

[dusky surge]

But you can around bugs

[opaque vine]

I admitted I was wrong?

What are u on

[dusky surge]

What are u off is the real question

[hasty coyote]

Same with cera. So cera doesn’t need insta puke, and for it to insta puke, bile would have to be way over tuned. If it can insta puke teno, then it 2 hits Diablo. (1.6x2=3.2 > 3) I can see it insta puking if teno was a bit low on food already, but otherwise it should take like 2 charged bites or 1 charged and 1 reg.

[opaque vine]

Yea, there’s no reason for you to fight it

[dusky surge]

Survival

That'd be one

Defending your herd

That's another good one

Not having to be a literal punching bag that isn't fun to play because cerato players are upset that not all bow to their presence

[opaque vine]

Mate I already explained how that could be achieved by not fighting it. use your 20 escape options to evade it

[dusky surge]

*one option

which is beaten out by a mutation

[hasty coyote]

Or, we could keep it a fair 1v1 since both have 20 escape options from each other

[opaque vine]

Once again that’s a mutation problem. And no you have like 3 escape methods

[dusky surge]

i move SLIGHTLY faster, which means cerato can, and will, punish me and kill me for:

• Turning
• Touching any obstacle
• Touching water
• Accidentally running into a herdmate
• Being low on stam

[opaque vine]

Cera dosent have many escape options

[dusky surge]

These are all mistakes of the foolish teno main

[slim dragon]

Who has the most running stamina between teno and cerato ?

[dusky surge]

Swimming, unmatched agility, body buff granting it an instant health advantage meaning the fight is it's, bile providing ample reason to leave

[opaque vine]

If you run into obstacles and can’t react in time that’s on you lol. A dino shouldn’t be balanced around comprehension issues on the players end

[dusky surge]

You're right, it really shouldn't

That's the thing we agree upon

[hasty coyote]

Water, bushes, forest, baiting out tenos stam by fake turning, removing teno’s stam by actually turning and making it vomit, and teno can’t track you unlike cera.

[dusky surge]

Cerato shouldn't be balanced around comprehension issues

[hasty coyote]

Teno has the exact same amount:
Bushes, forest, running in a perfectly straight line for 3 minutes and then out trotting the cera.

[opaque vine]

Tenos can track things using the blood drops. It’s like you’re forgetting that teno also has excellent agility

[dusky surge]

Ceratos is better, by a significant margin

[opaque vine]

Can also jump on rocks, fences or other things the ceras can’t get to

[opaque vine]

Never said that. All I’m saying is that don’t fight it if you don’t want to puke, it’s very very simple

[dusky surge]

Don't fight teno if you don't wanna get comboed?

Why can these animals not have the mutual respect that they had before that made them so engaging

[opaque vine]

Ceras can’t run down tenos lmao?

[dusky surge]

Tenos can't run down smart ceras

Because their front facing attack is a pitiful nip, and everything else requires the cerato to be either behind it or not moving away from it

Again, the brawls between the two have ALWAYS been a consensual thing

[opaque vine]

So you do think that the matchup should be 50-50

[hasty coyote]

First, why are you bleeding in the first place unless you tried to fight it? And yeah it has good agility, but it has to do a full 180 to hit you, so you can make a slight turn and it has to turn 180 or it wont be able to hit you back, and if you notice it doesn’t turn, hit it next time.

[hasty coyote]

So then yeah, same amount. 4vs4

[dusky surge]

Depends on the situation

Corpse nearby? Cerato has advantage
No corpse? Teno has advantage

In both cases, the more skilled opponent can overwhelm the other, even with their advantages

[opaque vine]

That’s stupid

[dusky surge]

HOW

[hasty coyote]

That’s… how it works…

[dusky surge]

How is it stupid for both animals to play to their strengths

[opaque vine]

You want ceras to be a punching bag for tenos without a corpse, the teno dosent benefit at all from having an advantage considering that it has so many escape options

[dusky surge]

Like, this is how it worked before, except teno didn't even have the advantage before this patch, it was pretty equal, and with corpses, cera had the clear advantage

[slim dragon]

Even if cera had no bile at all, I'm not sure Teno could win against one with a body buff with its new damage...

[dusky surge]

I

Never

Said

That

In fact, I said the COMPLETE opposite

[opaque vine]

“No corpse? Teno has advantage”-wavepoole

[dusky surge]

I wonder what else was in that message

Let's Blue's Clues this.

I see a pawprint somewhere

[opaque vine]

I saw it but basically I gotta be lucky to encounter a bad teno

[opaque vine]

Because if I don’t I lose

[dusky surge]

i wonder why tenontos tend to be skilled across the board

[slim dragon]

Meeting someone worse than you isn't a matter of luck, it's a matter of being skilled

[dusky surge]

could it be that most tenos die because they're an extremely skill intensive brawler

and giving cerato more value for less is silly

[slim dragon]

And if you're not confident in your ability to win, you still have the option to get away

[dusky surge]

^

both animals are blessed with the ability to disengage

[opaque vine]

Let’s say both are on the same skill level. Why should teno, the dinosaur that dosent need to fight it, has more ways to escape, herd animal have an advantage?

So if I get caught by a teno on the same skill level I’m cooked

[dusky surge]

HERD ANIMAL

[slim dragon]

And I don't mean running away as soon as you see the teno
Cerato isn't made of cardboard
You can engage it, realize it's better than you and it's going to smack you, forfeit the fight and get away

[dusky surge]

https://tenor.com/view/danger-alert-siren-alarm-red-light-gif-16931369

He said it

[slim dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/coffee-skeleton-head-spin-gif-16039019

[opaque vine]

[slim dragon]

I almost missclicked and offered you nitro instead of posting my gif

[opaque vine]

What a shame

[slim dragon]

SHIFT+W

[opaque vine]

It’s faster

[slim dragon]

It needs to stop and turn around to attack

[opaque vine]

It can outstam you

[opaque vine]

Ignore that and just debunk the rest

[slim dragon]

When I asked who has more stamina between teno and cerato no one answered me
But also teno's attacks cost stam

[opaque vine]

Minimal. It won’t make much of a difference

Increase tenos stamina on kicks plz

[hasty coyote]

Neither needs to fight, both have relatively similar opportunity to escape, herd animal isnt a thing and cera is stronger in groups than teno because of their kits. Advantage does not mean wins 10/10 times. Advantage can literally mean like 55% winrate. You can fight another teno on the same skill level and win half the fights. OR you can just abandon the fight if the teno seems too good. Teno does not have that option if cera does the same, because vomit prevents camping and bleed prevents running.

[distant torrent]

cera has more stamina when the teno vomit because it deletes a chunk of stam

[dusky surge]

Wow we're tripling down on the "screw teno" train huh

[slim dragon]

If being chased by a teno is what worries you, then it's not its kick cost that should be increased, but its running stam should be decreased
If the issue can be confirmed, that is

[eager saddle]

Imagine if cheetahs had a 100% winrate

[slim dragon]

I'm asking base stam

[opaque vine]

That’s an alternative. Keep the matchup like before but increase the stamina on it

[cosmic pelican]

If a cera and teno both run next to each other until theyre out of stam, the teno will still have around 20% left when the cera runs out

[slim dragon]

Thanks

[cosmic pelican]

🥔 👍

[hasty coyote]

most predators only have like a 25% success rate, the majority of hunts fail

[eager saddle]

You really came here to nerd out huh potato😅

[cosmic pelican]

shush

[opaque vine]

Yea so shift + W is out of the equation then

[slim dragon]

You have something against nerds ?

[eager saddle]

Exactly, despite being the fastest animal, it still fails majority

[cosmic pelican]

Im just afk growing a troodon and need entertainment

[eager saddle]

Nah potato and I are pals so I meme on him 😛

[slim dragon]

Play the damn game

[cosmic pelican]

nuh uh

[dusky surge]

i just had my herrera get pinned by a sub omni so i'm doing this while replaying the new Dragon Ball Sparking Zero trailer in the background

[slim dragon]

I don't understand irony
I'm going to report you for bad behavior

[cosmic pelican]

Im about to send the gif, dont make me do it

[hasty coyote]

so if the teno kicks 10 times or slams 5 times, they have the same stam. Not the easiest task but manageable. Or if you just make them vomit.

[slim dragon]

wrong answer

[eager saddle]

Fine no funny russian badger meme

[opaque vine]

If the teno is horrible at the game sure, but I don’t see anyone with atleast 1 braincell missing that many

In conclusion a cerato should be able to make a teno vomit in a fully charged bite☑️

[eager saddle]

Which one- oh

[eager saddle]

No.

[cosmic pelican]

Tbf the scenario I described would never happen in a survival situation, one of the 2 players will back off far before they completely run out of stam

[eager saddle]

1 bite is insane wtf

[opaque vine]

Sush

[dusky surge]

Try and tell him. It won't help

[opaque vine]

One fully charged bite. Not the regular ones

[eager saddle]

With full food?

[opaque vine]

Yes

[eager saddle]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That’s actually nuts

[opaque vine]

Make me lead developer and in charge of the balance

[hasty coyote]

its got like 3 minutes of sprinting to do so, if you're attempting to out stam a teno by running then its still an option. Or if its playing too leniently, you can hit it in the face with a bite. then just keep baiting til it either kicks too much, it gives up, you get away, or vomits.

[dusky surge]

The counterplay is picking something else on the character select screen

[eager saddle]

Jesus man im not playing league am I

[opaque vine]

The counterplay is to use one of your 50 escape options

[slim dragon]

The number gets higher and higher

[slim dragon]

Teno is receiving some serious buffs
It can now climb and burrow

[eager saddle]

1 bite is not balanced no matter how you argue it. Especially full food

[opaque vine]

“Teno, the faster animal with more escape options, better trott and more stamina should have an advantage over the cerato!”

[hasty coyote]

genuinely, if you need to see what I mean I'm down to hop on an admin server to test it with ya.

[eager saddle]

Come on man, mine is just adorable

[cosmic pelican]

yeah, you got the long end of the stick 😄

[opaque vine]

Eh maybe, it should atleast take 1 reg + a charged one

[tropic horizon]

cant wait to see whats going on in the lovely balance feedback discussion channel of the lovely islecord!

[opaque vine]

Leave before the contagious brain rot gets to you

[cosmic pelican]

Just your normal every day insanity, nothing to look at here

[opaque vine]

Save your soul

[tropic horizon]

Lucky for me I lack a brain and a soul!

[eager saddle]

At the very least. The whole point of the bile is to build up, not to insta vomit

[slim dragon]

It's not contagious, no one has agreed with you yet

[eager saddle]

Puke is one of the strongest things in the game, lets not buff it that hard man

[hasty coyote]

the debate on if cera should vomit teno with a single charged bite. Most of us are saying it shouldnt because the fight is pretty fair without it, rugops is saying cera loses too often and needs it to force teno to back off.

[opaque vine]

An ad populum fallacy tries to persuade others by claiming that something is true or right because a lot of people think so🤓

[hasty coyote]

(you mean keep it as is, its already like this)

[opaque vine]

I suggest you come up with something better than “everyone agrees with me”

[slim dragon]

Good thing we've been giving actual arguments instead of relying on that, huh ?

[eager saddle]

^

[opaque vine]

no

[opaque vine]

Teno can annihilate a cerato in 2 combos

[eager saddle]

You’re….not seriously suggesting its stronger than vomit are you

[hasty coyote]

oh here, teno's damage got nerfed: #balance-feedback message

That means teno now deals less than 400 damage with the standard tail slam into kick combo, compared to cera's charged bite dealing 300. It aint much of a difference.

[distant torrent]

how now that it does 180-185 per kick

[tropic horizon]

Yeah that seems kinda wack that it can do that, and speaking as a cera enjoyer myself that would be pretty not fun to have in the game.

[cosmic pelican]

a fully charged bite is 345dmg

[opaque vine]

https://tenor.com/view/ja-gif-23934764

[slim dragon]

Wait it got buffed ?

[opaque vine]

How much does a kick do

[cosmic pelican]

Been like this since forever

[opaque vine]

Bro

[hasty coyote]

I could have sworn it was 300, double the regular bite. Either way, even closer in damage

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-nerd-emoji-nerd-emoji-meme-accttually-nerd-emoji-gif-26120328

[opaque vine]

Traitor…

[hasty coyote]

read the post, shows it deals somewhere between 200-180 now

[eager saddle]

Ah potato’s true form

[cosmic pelican]

Im just saying numbers

[eager saddle]

He do be a numbers guy

[tropic horizon]

I honestly found the balance of the fight to be pretty good before this patch with its only issue being tenos weird attack delay it has.

[hasty coyote]

yeah, the fight is probably the most fair 1v1 in the game (current bile excluded)

[opaque vine]

Dang, this argument was pointless it seems my bad folks😅

[distant torrent]

it’s likely either 180 or 185 because if it’s 190 or greater, dibble would be dead in 16 hits rather than 17

[hasty coyote]

yay, so now teno combos deal almost the exact same damage as a single charged bite THIS IS FINE

[opaque vine]

Yes

The insta vomit can go

[olive zinc]

please make it so the cera's charged bite comes out of its ass. You know, for "balance" reasons.

[cosmic pelican]

Finally you all agree, only took 3 hours XD

[eager saddle]

THAT WAS THE WHOLE PROBLEM YOU GUYS WERE DISCUSSING

[tropic horizon]

Better than walking away bitter and not coming to a middle ground

[hasty coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-gif-13887345523384273699

[cosmic pelican]

Yeah ofc

[opaque vine]

Gulp

[opaque vine]

I’m not schizophrenic I swear!

[distant torrent]

#balance-feedback message 40% stam taken on kicks alone to kill something cera or carno sized is absurd

[olive zinc]

How many of these crying ceras actually played cera before the undercooked patch that turned them into puke gods

[shadow vortex]

Lol what the actual hell? I swear the one that didn't get any nerfs this update is Cera only.

Altering stats of several playables by 2x this way ain't gonna be helpful with balance ig...

[olive zinc]

and the sad fact is you still see cera players demanding more

[opaque vine]

We want ceratorex!

[opaque vine]

Cera was underperforming before, this patch kinda saved it

[hasty coyote]

dude, you must not have played cera last patch or saw only bad ceras. I fought so damn much as a cera, and only died to other ceras and a diablo who ganked my fight with a sub stego (2 separate deaths). The thing was already fairly strong then with all the op mutations that benefit it, now its a monster. A good group of ceras could wipe pretty much anything other than a large diablo herd, a group of stegos, or a deino that wasnt on land (I know because I have done it). Now I think most of those fights other than a deino in the water are doable (They should not be in the slightest).

[obtuse ocean]

Well with the crap balance they are going with now, thats what we get. You need numbers, and its a easy win. 1v1 is a skill fight, 2v1 is free food. And the dmg is so low overall that you dont even need to care about mistakes

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/fishing-bait-gif-11885267

[opaque vine]

Nah

Jokes aside, this new vomit ain’t that bad imo

[hasty coyote]

I think it being weight dependent is great, I think making it based on the amount of bile you have is interesting. But it’s way too strong atm. The fact it can 1-hit and vomit a Diablo shows that the intended change just made it stronger.

You should need to deal like 1/3rd of the dinos hp at least to make them vomit imo.

[opaque vine]

Yea being able to make a Diablo puke is bs not denying that, I just think that making a teno puke in a fully charged bite ain’t that bad

People seem to forget that teno is a defensive brawler and aren’t designed to chase down ceratos

The insta puke has humbled them I would say

[graceful swallow]

why does it look like it gives up after seeing the giant fish lmao, or it got tired

[hasty coyote]

the issue is, if it can insta puke teno, it can 2-hit diablo and 4 hit a stego. Thats the crux of the issue, if cera can insta puke a teno, its ability to punch up is INSANE

[hasty coyote]

its a bobber from a fishing line. Hes saying the statement is bait

[opaque vine]

Fair enough I suppose. How many hits do you think it should take to make a teno vomit

[hasty coyote]

2 charged bites, or at minimum a charged bite and a regular bite.

[opaque vine]

That seems reasonable

[graceful swallow]

wtffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff, lmao I thought something could exist that looks like that, arnt those suppose to be like may flies, obv could'nt do that in the water .. unless lmao

[hasty coyote]

Still very threatening, just aint 1 hit and insta vomit

[hasty coyote]

and now you see why fish fall for the bait lmao

[graceful swallow]

wonder if mayflies acually can move underwater like that though, or similar bugs

cause if not, its funny a fish sees something its never seen before but assumes food

[hasty coyote]

it sees movement that resembles something small struggling in the water. Thats enough for a fish lol, they don't got much going on in their head.

[graceful swallow]

Yeah Ik they go for smol movements I just find it silly we use bait thats not usually what they eat, including worms

[grand grail]

I feel like the carno rework was totally excessive from both ends. The gigantic weight/health nerf, speed nerf, and low blood pool makes it food for any minorly coordinated pack of small hunters that can start bleed, which makes it awkward as a "small game hunter" getting hunted by small game. Meanwhile the giant buff to ram conditions make it unrewarding to kill any solo small game with a 'gimme' mechanic. Overall it just feels like it has different tastes of the same problems it had before.

[keen plover]

Agreed. Carno is being hard carried by bugs and latency right now. A coordinated pair of raptors or dilo are favoured in the open imo

Pachy pairs should technically be able to do it as well

[grand grail]

Imo carno will never be in a good spot until it's actually feared by the small game it supposedly hunts, without just cheesing them in a one-click mechanic. If they want this 'ambush and chase' design it should be able to retreat from a major threat with bleed going, otherwise personally I would much rather see it being an ambush/brawler hybrid intended to dominate small guys. I do like that it's not just a cera-eater now but that's about it

[dusky surge]

Ambush brawler doesn't fit at all for carno

That's just alberto tbh

Carno's inagility and lack of any hard-hitting moves on the defense makes it antithetical to a brawler playstyle

[keen plover]

It sucks so bad rn lol. Like if its played as a pack hunter then yeah, I guess it's good. Solo carno is a joke though

[grand grail]

Is that not for midtiers? I'm talking for small tiers. If carno is supposed to be this fragile to simple small tier bleed then it needs something to put up a fight instead of playing "stand and bite", not just compensated with an ability to kill something small that's not paying attention with no effort. Could buff its bleed resist but that's just muting the problem to me

[keen plover]

It doesn't deal enough damage to threaten more than 1 small tier

Slow bite rate while also now taking 4 bites to kill a raptor instead of 3. It's worse off than its ever been

[grand grail]

Yeah, it's not fun

[dusky surge]

I think its bleed resist should be stronger, i wouldn't say that's muting the problem at all

[grand grail]

It'd have to be massively stronger to make enough difference in escaping. I think a defensive utility is a more fun option for both ends

[dusky surge]

Ehh, doesn't really fit carno imho

[dusky surge]

@fallen cradle #balance-feedback message

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/472407264700006420/1136107591882252349/fr.gif

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

Why nerf the weight when you could just nerf the stun lol

[steep echo]

I hope dryo keeps its dodge even after burrowing is added

[true oasis]

why dillo clones spawn to me and deal immediate damage, that stuff is simply broken

[royal beacon]

go in mud or water and it wont even touch u so it isnt broken

[shadow vortex]

Are those 20% of the map that are mud and water really that helpful? And tbh, if something that illogical stops the mechanic from working correctly, yes, the mechanic is broken in this way too. Clones shouldn't spawn on you, they should be active even in mud and water, they should pose a threat, however, should be dodgeable to some extent too. That I would call a mechanic being "not broken".

[neat basin]

Feel like the clones should serve another purpose rather then just raw damage, and shouldn't be tied to terrain

[slim dragon]

the isle

[shadow vortex]

I'd give them a behavior that would cause them to go around the prey from behind, trying to reach flanks. So if they manage to do so, they damage you, if you attack them first - they dissolve. Dunno how hard it is speaking of coding though.

[slim dragon]

Considering they haven't managed to make an AI that consistently responds to being attacked, I couldn't see such complex behavior happening in the foreseeable future

[shadow vortex]

Yes... But would be interesting to have, imho.

[slim dragon]

And also I imagine spinning in place would then completely counter dilo's venom, as the illusions wouldn't know where to attack from

[shadow vortex]

But Dilo itself then could engage again and get a bite. Or clones could behave in such way only in first 1-3 cycles, then run directly at you.

[distant torrent]

actually they can still spawn in you in water. it happened to me the other day while I was swimming

[royal beacon]

what we really have to talk about is carno negating pounce damage from troodon and omni by holding rmb

[distant torrent]

spawned, did immediate damage, then fell into the darkness of the water like a cryptid lol

[shadow vortex]

-# If there are several problems, it doesn't mean that we should forget about one in favor of another tbh.

[shadow vortex]

Hm. So a Carno doesn't have a strict cap on weight for the stun, and Carno ramming for 2-3 seconds can stun a full grown Teno... Interesting.

[hasty coyote]

it does have a cap, it just increases after the carno has charged for a bit

[shadow vortex]

I guess that the cap is the max weight Carno can ram without damaging itself lol. Still dunno how to feel about it, but we'll see we'll see...

[dusky surge]

@royal valve you won't believe what Dondi just showed on stream

diet rework baby, let's go

[royal valve]

YEEEESSSS

[dusky surge]

here's some info about it

[royal valve]

https://tenor.com/view/kool-aid-wall-crashing-through-breaking-wall-oh-yeah-gif-4093663

[opaque vine]

Can’t wait!

[dusky surge]

@topaz elm i genuinely think dryo is more viable and capable than pachy lmao

pachy is that bad

dryo has good speed, agility, a good dodge move and genuinely surprising damage with its alts

[topaz elm]

like i literally dont understand why pachy is so punished, the whole point was to be a glass cannon was it not?

you have to ambush pachy or else it will retaliate very heavily and most likely kill or severely wound you

[thorn mountain]

can I still see it

I was out 💀

[dusky surge]

the stream? no

[thorn mountain]

NOOOOOOO

ofc the one time im like he aint going to stream he streams

[regal tulip]

Because it has bone break and this alone makes it hell to balance

Pachy is useless alone but makes every herd it joins 10x more dangerous

[honest wasp]

YOU HAVE AN EASIER CHANCE GETTING CATFISHED ONLINE THAN FINDING A CATFISH IN THE ISLE

[leaden remnant]

understandable

[hasty coyote]

(its almost as if the fractures are WAY overtuned and pachy is suffering the consequences of it. It was just not as noticeable until it lost the stuns that carried it.)

[opaque vine]

Is this the Dino dude himself

[honest wasp]

THE ONE AND ONLY!!!!!!

[thorn mountain]

@rapid mason its doingt the complete opposite its actually helping since people are now forced to move and go around the map if as a person who plays with friends its not a big deal say a spot thats near you and your friend and go to it for example river delta

[thorn mountain]

@rapid mason its seems you have a skill issue of hotspotting

everyone who did not before aint complaining its all the people who did hotspot who are complaining

say what you want about it but it will help the game in the long run

[cedar beacon]

@alpine plover they could also give Carno its acceleration back so it doesn't charge after taking one step

[golden coral]

@dusky surge I don't think the hallucinations should be impervious to damage, wasn't the entire point that you could hit them before they hit you to negate the damage. It might work well if you're fast and can actually move around to look for them, but what about more defensive critters? Would you change how long they remain stationary to give all playables a decent chance of finding and "killing" them? What if there's terrain in the way around you for that matter, would the clones spawn "inside" and thus be unreachable until they're in attack mode?

[dusky surge]

They're impervious to damage atm, and it seems that there's some kind of issue with them not being so, so this is my in between

[golden coral]

I know they're currently odd, they teleport onto the target? Whereas they should have to run up to the target.

Just saying, if you're meant to go on a scavenger hunt in the fog, you need to have the time and ability to do that

Before the dilo can just change them into attack mode and you're defenseless

[tribal idol]

#balance-feedback message I think this could work as place holder, because ik they want to do things like deino hallucinations, so quetz ones too for things on rocks would be a thing at some point too I assume. but for now ig this would be good

[dusky surge]

I hate deino and quetz hallucinations, personally

Just make it dilo clones all the way through

Let them break the laws of physics

They're literally not real

[tribal idol]

I mean yea, but it would be a lot more horror if different creatures attacked you, since you are supposed to be hallucinating

[dusky surge]

Personally, I don't think so

[tribal idol]

like having a dilo break the laws of physics up to your rock, or a quetz flying through the fog and biting you, or getting lunged by a deino which already scares people

obv they would do the same damage as the normal hallucinations, just all visual

[dusky surge]

I personally prefer the dilo hallucinations because they mimic dilo and genuinely confuse the prey with matching skins and whatnot. You'd know that the random appearing quetz is more than likely not real

[tribal idol]

I mean, I assume a quetz or deino would only spawn if your hiding in water, or your on a rock. on the ground it should still be other dilos

and if your on a rock the hallucinations aren't really gonna confuse you if theres one struggling up the rock and the others break the laws of physics

[alpine plover]

True

Sry for late response

[vivid cedar]

@dusky hearth omnis are legit a third of the weight... idk why you would think with a full bar of bacteria it should take more than 1 bite for something a third of the size? I can agree carno feels weaker than it used to but still.

[dusky hearth]

Its not just omni tho mid weight u can almost make anything puke in 2-3 bites u think thats balanced?

[vivid cedar]

With a full bar of bacteria yes you can. But that doesn't stay a full bar for long there is also a 60 second cool down before you can make something puke a second time and every bite you land as Cera during that time lowers your bacteria. So you tell me

I can agree there is an absolute over population of ceras rn. But I don't think the reason is because it's overpowered.

[cosmic pelican]

It can make a 3 ton dibble vomit with 1 charged bite. That just screams insanely overpowered if you ask me.

[vivid cedar]

Cap. I've played cera tried it doesn't happen.

2 or 3 maybe but 1 you are reaching my man

[cosmic pelican]

https://youtube.com/shorts/UYPRCDXs_8E?si=_tqjiiQHMXoIArCr

That dibble is over 90% food

After the first vomit all the cera has to do is stall the fight, wait 35 seconds and make the dibble vomit again, getting completely risk free dmg

And may God help that poor diablo if theres a second cerato

[cosmic pelican]

You can literally make everything that can vomit throw up with a charged bite, aside from stego, if you have full bile.

[vivid cedar]

You can't I play Cera regularly.

Anything it's weight or lower yes 1 bite but dibbles take multiple charged or not

[cosmic pelican]

I do as well and you very much can lol

[cosmic pelican]

Watch the video I sent

[vivid cedar]

That was a headshot in the video you sent

The Cera legit bit it's head lol

[cosmic pelican]

Headshot multipliers dont affect bile application

[vivid cedar]

Do you have proof backing that up

[cosmic pelican]

And dibble takes 0.25x dmg to the head anyway

As in video evidence? No, but you dont have to believe me

[vivid cedar]

No video evidence dev statements patch notes?

[cosmic pelican]

I dont want to go through almost 2 years worth of patch notes

[vivid cedar]

This would make sense

It shouldn't be 2 years of patch notes if Cera just got like this

[cosmic pelican]

If you really want evidence that bad I guess I could show you on an admin server

[cosmic pelican]

Hordetest patch notes are very vague, doubt any useful information is in there

[cosmic pelican]

You can see the ceras head clipping through the dibbles body

[vivid cedar]

That looks closer to the neck to me but alright

[cosmic pelican]

Its nose is clipping through the middle of the body ;-;

[vivid cedar]

I will just take your word for it the only things that should be getting one bit sick are things smaller than it

[leaden remnant]

they do btw

im 99% sure they do

[hasty coyote]

you say that, but there was a guy in here not too long ago who got beat to death by a pachy while hallucinating and was complaining that the pachy hallucinations were too strong lmao.

@sonic field thats how fractures already work. They aren't chance based. Each limb has a fracture health, and pachy hitting those limbs deals fracture damage to them. Enough damage causes them to break. Thats why it takes multiple hits to fracture a teno or cera in most spots rather than a single hit to fracture carno, because carno has low fracture hp comparative to weight.

though the location damage is incredibly jank and you often get head fractures from hitting in the tail or leg fractures from hitting someone in the face because bugs

[sonic field]

Sure doesn't feel as such when you can sometimes one shot head fracture a fg cerato but in the other hand land multiple hits on a omni and they walk perfect fine, its really unreliable and unpredictable

[hasty coyote]

yeah, as I said, the hit detection is incredibly jank and always has been. Like theres a good chance that your ram will hit just fine on your screen and they get knocked down, but the game says "nuh uh" and the target isnt actually hit. Its been getting worse and worse the past few updates because the devs havent been actively trying to fix it.

Pachy is just in an awful spot, its carried by op fractures and suffers from the most buggy and clunky ability in the game.

[sonic field]

Yeah another thing I've seen get worse is omni getting knocked off by a tree and they don't stun and scoot away while in the pounce animation

Happens pretty much ever time now

[hasty coyote]

yeah the new pounce changes introduced a lot more bugs too.

[stray spoke]

Raptor is just not playable rn

[glossy elbow]

yeah it is? in what way is it not?

[stray spoke]

slower bite speed wich is awefull, mutliple problems with pounce wich is your main dmg / bleed ability, jumping off someone when you pounce him for example just to name a few. Im playing alot of raptor and it just feels really bad to play so id rather play something else till fixed.

[golden coral]

If this is what counts as "not playable", most playables would be in the same spot.

[stray spoke]

like who, give me some examples

[dusky surge]

stegosaurus

slower power swing speed due to cooldown which is awful, multiple problems with power swing which is your main damage/bleed ability, stamina costs are far too high just to name a few. It feels really bad to play, so I'd rather play something else till fixed

[golden coral]

Okay. For slow attack speed, you got stego (jab angles, cooldown on attack), pachy (ram is somewhat clunky), even teno apparently have some odd "cooldown" on its tailslam. Hypsi spit is rather clunky, unless that's changed. Deino is overall a somewhat clunky playable (and has slow bite). The dismount for troodon/omni do seem a little odd, could very well be a matter of clunkyness there, or just people not used to using space bar, not sure. Aside from that, honestly not sure what else is an issue with the pounce?

Plenty of playables feel bad to play for various reasons, but feeling bad to play does not make a playable not viable or functional

[dusky surge]

although feeling bad is something all of these animals need addressed regardless

no matter the viability, omni/stego/teno/pachy NEED changes in that regard

[stray spoke]

trodon is the same as omni, hypsi i played yesterday not sure what you mean about the spit seemed fine to me. Stego can litterally attack infront of him. I agree with the Stamina but that goes for all the dinosaurs. The map is bigger overall and i feel like maybe some Stamina mutations wouldnt be a bad thing. Patchy i cant say anything about never played

[dusky surge]

stamina doesn't go for all dinos. Stego's stamina is specifically godawful

Everything else burns stamina much slower than stego

[golden coral]

That you have to stop to spit, which is clunky and not very good when you're also tryinh to escape things. Stego is slow and clunky, just like your exaample of bite.

[stray spoke]

you can oneshoot about everything so i think thats fair

[golden coral]

I would argue stego feels bad to play, just like you feel omni is "bad"

[dusky surge]

That's not how that works

Deino doesn't have nearly as bad a stamcost

And if rex had the same stamcost as stego, people would riot

[golden coral]

@stray spokeMost playables have various issues that make them feel bad, especially to those that would otherwise like the playable in question. And most playables have some really bad or slow attacks, be it a bite attack or something else.

[stray spoke]

were talking about evrima yea ?

[golden coral]

None the less, they're playable, if far from ideal

[dusky surge]

yea

[stray spoke]

theres no rex for me

[dusky surge]

rex will be next on the roster

[golden coral]

It, together with maia, trike, and allo are in development, as for in which order we get them, no one aside from the devs know

[stray spoke]

Yea but we dont know nothing about the Balance for these until now or ?

[golden coral]

Not really, aside from what has been shown on streams, but I rarely catch them so don't know much

Most we know is that A, rex seems rather fast, and B, rex and trike are meant to be way more powerful than deino and stego. More or less.

Some other info too, you can find it in the devblogs, like various anims and info like maia have stance changes and so on

[stray spoke]

thanks didnt knew that ima have a look

[olive zinc]

I find it very unlikely that the devs would release a patch that contains only one dino and the only way you can play that dino is if you play on an unofficial server. Most likely a patch that contains the rex will also contain the allo, or something similar. At least, that's how I'd do it. Otherwise the official servers are going to be empty.

[glossy elbow]

just depends on if they wanna wait till all of them are done or just release them as they are completed

[distant torrent]

@strong flint what’s even better about that video is she likely wasn’t even truly punishing the ceratos for getting hit lol

unless this most recent patch changed it, slam seems to do less than or around 100 damage on body shots and kicks do less than they used to. roughly 180-185 (headshots don’t seem to line up with that damage times the 1.5x multiplier for some reason)

so either teno is just all kinds of buggy and messed up (because no patch notes address a teno nerf) or there was an intentional shadow nerf

that damage is pretty pitiful compared to a singular cera charged bite which is like what

350?

[strong flint]

Yeah I can't talk much about her gameplay specifically 'cause I'm not that experienced myself with them, but AS a Cera main this seemed SO unfair. Ceras were ALREADY so popular before, now we're overrun by them. I truly wish more people played Herbs and hope they can do something to motivate players to

[distant torrent]

her gameplay was a bit painful to watch from all of the missed slams and late kicks, but I don’t blame her due to the fear of one bite meaning a vomit and the fact there were 3 ceras to watch

but yea no one wants to play an herb when that means you’re at a disadvantage

why waste hours of your life growing something that can easily be wiped with little effort

a good way to get people to play herbs is to make them not suck and to make them not clunky

[sonic field]

My current take on Cerato as someone has played it and played against it, the current state of Cerato to others is seen as OP and that its bile is too strong, while yes its bile is good but people exaggerate it a bit. Cerato is the slowest land carnivore in the game but is faster than very few large herbivores who can defend themselves easily besides hypsi but no one plays hypsi. Cerato is a defensive body bully meant to deter any carnivore who try to fight it especially when near a body, no cerato is gonna chase you and out stam you even after you throw up, cerato itself isnt that hard to fight alone as a solo carno it takes about three body bites from a fg cerato to make a carno throw up at max hunger meaning you slowly wittle the cerato down by getting a ram and maybe a bite and then run off wait like 10 seconds and the bile goes away and repeat or you can go full agro and just obliterate it, and if you lose the engagement and die, that is on you because one you can bolt away from it and you even have an advantage due to your charge that allows for good trade, the issue when fighting a cerato is that many fear throwing up and that you have to avoid it as much as possible but that itself isnt true, you can throw up and still continue the fight, its your fault in the first place for fighting a cera so your gonna take that bile damage no matter what, because why you ask? Because it is its ability, just like how an Omni is going to pin you and bleed you out and how a Teno is going to stun you and how a Pachy is going to fracture all of your bones, and how a Carno is going to spam ram you to death. They are all their unique abilities, cerato is literally a garbage truck its slow, big, collects waste, and packs a powerful punch, and boo hoo a Cerato took your diet? Well, guess what how about you send his behind back to the character selections screen for that, this is a game of survival and that cerato player wants to survive just as much as you do so may it be a fight to the death or you leave the engagement before you lose all your diets also you shouldn't be fighting a cerato if it's not on your diet to begin with unless you have zero diets to lose in the first place also I watched that video by metta last night and the issue wasnt the cerato itself and the fact that it was able to eat meat and heal, because that would not have happened if those young dibbles didnt try to fight 3 ceratos, also the reason she died isn't that she threw up and was even 1v3ing them even after the fact and made them run multiple times, the reason is because of the speed mutations that I personally 100% agree needs to be removed because a dinos speed is what makes it balanced but allowing a cera to be faster than teno and pachy is what makes it strong. You all are taking the fact that a Cerato CAN make you vomit and not including if it can kill you after because you very much can still win, same with other dinos, just because an omni can bleed you and pin you but that doesn't mean it will kill you. also before you call me a Cerato main, I am very much not. I main teno

[dusky surge]

jesus

[thorn mountain]

I aint reading all that

[glossy elbow]

basically just them explaining reasons why cera isn't op from what i've read through so far. don't really agree with most of their points so far though

[sonic field]

Can you elaborate why you don't agree with most of my points?

[glossy elbow]

haven't got around to reading all of it yet don't really wanna give my opinion on something i don't have a full understanding on and its quite a bit to read

[thorn mountain]

it can insta vomit a full grown teno on top of that being able to insta vomit a full grown dibble with under 75% food

[sonic field]

i just fought and killed a cerato as my teno... he bit me 3 times before i threw up and i still manage to kill it very quickly

[thorn mountain]

thats called skill issue plus its called a charge bite

[sonic field]

can't say that you don't agree with most my points if you didn't read them all

[sonic field]

okay when you hear big roar, run until no big roar

are yall calling it op just because he can make you vomit faster now?

[thorn mountain]

if you are actually a cera main you know how vomit is the main way of killing

[sonic field]

im not a cera main but ive played a lot of cera and vomit is not how i kill things, i kill them while using my bite damage

[thorn mountain]

welp how many times have you died

[sonic field]

vomit itself does not do damage

[thorn mountain]

its the animation that takes priority over anything

making you deal MORE damage

[sonic field]

i have yet to die to a cera as my teno since the update dropped

the animation barely last a single bite cooldown

[thorn mountain]

yeah and? i shredded 2 a day ago plus they were decent and a good cera does not be like oooo all in its like take your time wait a minuite then vomit it again

[thorn mountain]

that can quickly add up

[dusky surge]

no, we're calling it OP because it can instapuke an animal over 2x its size

[thorn mountain]

THANK YOU

[glossy elbow]

yup

[sonic field]

one for what reason would a cera wait for you to get over your vomit cooldown when it is slower than you

[thorn mountain]

your making cera out like a not fast and agile creature with good stam

do you think soloing even the best stego players is not OP

[dusky surge]

its weird that people call cera "slow" when it's quite decently swift for its size. Compare it to pachy, another "slow" creature, except in this case, it's 500kg and LEAGUES behind the speed curve at a measly 41.8km/hr

[sonic field]

cera isnt the fastest also that is very much false because the "best" stego player would have not lost ot that

[thorn mountain]

exactly also with a good swim speed

[thorn mountain]

not being the fastest does not make it the best

thats just a stupid way of saying its not op

[sonic field]

its the fact that he is the slowest land carnivore that makes him so easily escapable

[dusky surge]

by that metric, stego OP complaints should be all null and void because it's not that fast lol

[thorn mountain]

hes not the slowest troodon is I think

[dusky surge]

troodon's faster

[sonic field]

troodon is faster

cera is the slowest

[thorn mountain]

remember it being slower on release nvm

[dusky surge]

always was 45km/hr since launch

[thorn mountain]

still @sonic field you could say carno OP since its super quick

some say yes it is but I have not had issues with it since the HT

[sonic field]

um how? the reason im telling you cera isnt op because his stats are the same to carno and is slower than pretty much the whole roaster

carno has his drawbacks because it has terrible turn speed

[thorn mountain]

drift

[sonic field]

yeah his drift is one of the slowest in the game

[thorn mountain]

it has dibble drift

[sonic field]

dibble can insta turn on the dime

also you dont see carno being 3 tons

[dusky surge]

and its bile, damage, stamina and agility all make up for that

oh, and its body damage resist buff, eating damage resist buff, bleed resist, increased fracture health, fast biterate, great swimspeed, ability to eat rotten meat and bones, increased scent range, ability to throw up on corpses to make them inedible to every other creature, ability to alt-bite in the water, so on

but yea i guess if we look at just speed it's not that good

[thorn mountain]

lol summed it up perfectly

[sonic field]

cera does not have good stam so take that back also just because a dino can o special stuff makes it OP?

[thorn mountain]

WDYM NOT GOOD STAM

[dusky surge]

its speed ain't even that bad, especially given a single bite now can cause tenos to vomit, ruining their stam and making it easy to run them down

[thorn mountain]

you been running no diets cerato

[dusky surge]

i don't dislike any of those mechanics, I just think that bile is ridiculously overpowered in tandem with everything I just listed

[sonic field]

its speed is 40.2 km/h

[dusky surge]

fix bile and i literally have no qualms with cera

[sonic field]

also no i always run perfect diet on all my dinos

and cera has very bad stam

[keen plover]

What do you think good stam is?

[thorn mountain]

running across the whole map I bet

[dusky surge]

Cerato does not at all have bad stam

[thorn mountain]

galli stam 💀

[sonic field]

cera sure doesnt have good stam either

[keen plover]

What is good stam???????

[thorn mountain]

tell us please

[sonic field]

teno stam is good carno stam is good, pachy is alright but still drains pretty quick

[keen plover]

I don't get it at all. Cerato has 0 stam cost abilities outside of alt attack. It pretty much can run the whole time using its bite and charge bite

[dusky surge]

cera has more stam than carno lmao

and better stam efficiency

[thorn mountain]

even if that carno is meant to be a plains hunter running things down

[sonic field]

cera does NOT have better stam than carno

[dusky surge]

so by your own metrics, cera has good stam

[dusky surge]

it literally does. the math has been done

[tribal idol]

cera has legit some of the best stam in the game for its size

[keen plover]

^

[thorn mountain]

your excuse is carno faster than cera so therefor it has more stam

[dusky surge]

literally the only downsides that justifies cera's current state in your opinion is speed and stam, and one of those downsides isn't even a downside

[thorn mountain]

making cera faster would break the game completely

[sonic field]

those are down side enough to make it not OP

yall acting like him making you puke is breaking the game?

[thorn mountain]

watch any cera player on YT....

[sonic field]

he was gonna always make you puke in a fight to begin with

[thorn mountain]

a not even good cera can make someone vomit not the first timers though

[sonic field]

no not players in specific but i have fought many of them

[keen plover]

I can say right now if cerato didn't have bacteria, it would still be one of the best creatures in the game

[dusky surge]

it making you puke isn't the problem. you seem to be leaving out the part where it does so to literally anything that isn't a stego in one good hit

[dusky surge]

LMAO TRUE

its stats are so well balanced and powerful

[keen plover]

Easy & "quick" grow, easy maintenance , and free "health buff" by being on a body

[dusky surge]

the addition of bacteria is entirely just to make it impossible to deal with

[thorn mountain]

@sonic field fight any cera with a brain

[sonic field]

okay so because something is easy and quick to grow makes it OP? im not denying that cera is good but calling it OP is false

[thorn mountain]

what do you call OP?

[sonic field]

and yes very much have, also why would they have to be good if the dino is OP?

O

[thorn mountain]

i said a brain not good

[sonic field]

they are meaning the same thing? are they not

[dusky surge]

it feels like you select 3 words from someone's sentence at random and then proceed to make it their entire argument in your head

its survivability is fine. It's the fact that it is also the strongest carnivore in the game and has been for many updates now

[thorn mountain]

even 2 braincells are fine

[sonic field]

if you said someone didnt have a brain in the game you are calling them bad

[keen plover]

idc about the definition of current cera.

I think it deserves some nerfs

[thorn mountain]

even as a cera main I agree

[keen plover]

Charge bite damage & bacteria mainly.

[thorn mountain]

yeah

[sonic field]

hmm hey sherlock maybe because thats how a argument works? you take what someone said to you and then you plan a counter argument

[dusky surge]

theory proven

[thorn mountain]

lol

[sonic field]

ummmm.... LMAO why he thought he ate

[tribal idol]

because ur legit doing what he said

[sonic field]

explain, he said something and i refuted his statement

how is that me picking 3 words

[tribal idol]

except for your just taking legit 4-5 words of your choosing and not looking at whats being actually said

[sonic field]

ive read the entire thing,,,

[thorn mountain]

he also talked about it being the strongest carni and the survivabillity is good

[sonic field]

and i refuted each point he made

[tribal idol]

your replies do not seem like it

[thorn mountain]

no you did not

[mint star]

ceratosaurus

makes things

instantly vomit

one bite

this is bad

[sonic field]

its hard to reply to one guys full message when there are like 5 others jumping in

[thorn mountain]

you replied to him no one else 😐

[tribal idol]

omg someone that has actually played the game, les goooo

[dusky surge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/472407264700006420/1136107591882252349/fr.gif

[keen plover]

oh btw after a quick test to see, cera runs for 170 seconds~ with perfect diet

almost 3 minutes my lord

[thorn mountain]

plus its stam regain

[sonic field]

every dinosaur has bad regen

[tribal idol]

not at all, some are definitely better than others

[thorn mountain]

i disagree completely run the right build bud

[sonic field]

i mean mr omni was the only one making good points

[dusky surge]

play a hypsi and rest and badda BOOM stam regen

I love hypsi

[tribal idol]

hypsi needs its climb

[dusky surge]

Give that bastard climbing and he's the only herbivore I will play for the forseeable future

[sonic field]

only herbis have stam regen mut (pretty sure)

[dusky surge]

Nah, there's one that makes stam regen threshholds lower. I use it more than I should, despite how weak it is

[thorn mountain]

multi chambered lungs does something i think as I have used it with a friend to see who goes up faster

[dusky surge]

That's the one

[thorn mountain]

multi chambered went faster

[thorn mountain]

yeah I ran it last time I played cera

[sonic field]

pretty sure it only makes your stam start to regen faster, no?

doesnt actually increase stam regen?

[dusky surge]

Nah, it changes at what stams you can regen while trotting/walking/standing

[dusky surge]

nah, it don't

[sonic field]

ah okay

[thorn mountain]

photosynthetic regen does that

[dusky surge]

herbi only

[thorn mountain]

yeah

[sonic field]

soooo we done here?

[dusky surge]

If we are all in agreement that cera need nerfy

[sonic field]

welp then i guess not... ☹️

[keen plover]

I'd rather they touch the power / bacteria first

If that's not an option then speed / stam

[sonic field]

whats wrong with its speed?

[dusky surge]

It's quite fast given its niche

[sonic field]

it cant chase nothing

[thorn mountain]

its not meant to hunt which is why nerf

[keen plover]

lol

[sonic field]

yeah its not meant to hunt but scavenge and vomit is a defensive ability

[thorn mountain]

it can be used as offense

[dusky surge]

Vomit is def extremely offensive atm

That's part of the problem

It's used far more in hunting than ever in defense

[sonic field]

what exactly do yall not like about vomit

[tribal idol]

1 bite can make dibble throw up, which not only stuns it for about 2 seconds, but also insta removes all its food and diets. in just 1 bite

[sonic field]

okay how about it only removing food and not diet?

[keen plover]

Look, cerato is marginally slower than teno with a marginal difference in stamina like 10 seconds iirc.

It can absolutely run down a teno that is on like 90% stam

[tribal idol]

or just make it where a 1.3 ton carnivore cant insta make a 3 ton ceratopsian throw up

[keen plover]

also puking locks out stamina

[sonic field]

even so teno should be able to wipe the floor with a cerato

[keen plover]

💀

[dusky surge]

Full stun that can make some creatures screwed the moment you bite them, the best tool in the game for depleting prey stam, immediately provides insane pressure on finding resources, hard caps stam limits, etc

[dusky surge]

It should be, but it doesn't

[tribal idol]

teno vs cera rn is very much favored for cera, not to mention even if you as the teno win, if you got hit even once you now have no food, water, diets, and decreased stam

[keen plover]

You literally lose all your diets in one hit. Why would you want to take that fight?

^^

[sonic field]

exactly

why would you wanna fight it

[keen plover]

Because it has the ability to run you down at near full stam

[sonic field]

but it cant tho? teno has a way faster walk speed so even if it did then i can just walk away

[tribal idol]

tenos attacks rely on stam, its better to take the fight with you near full stam, than run until ur out of stam and the cera still might have some

[thorn mountain]

bleed and scent

[sonic field]

well yeah i never really have to run from a cera tho

[keen plover]

A lot of tenos zones are in areas where cerato can get very close.

[sonic field]

but whats the cera gonna do sit for 5 minutes, after that my blood will have healed

[tribal idol]

more than likely the cera will have stam left, because all of tenos attacks use some stam

teno will loose stam first, even if it only attacks 4-5 times

[thorn mountain]

your tracks dont disappear plus if they have a vomit on you they will know you need food and water ASAP

[sonic field]

well again you shouldnt really run away from a cera as a teno

unless your young but you can outrun it and out stam it when your young

[keen plover]

The game currently forces you into doing it.... 1 hit and it ruins your day

Why not make cerato slower / have less stamina???????

[tribal idol]

but you kind of have too rn, unless you wanna be down a good amount of health and bleed, plus all the vomit debuffs

[sonic field]

cerato is already slower

[keen plover]

Or nerf bacteria / charge bite

[dusky surge]

i heard the idea to make charge bite give a slowdown effect, thus encouraging ceras to use it defensively, which could work

[sonic field]

ill agree on that

[thorn mountain]

I cant be the only noticing that we have only talked about a single matchup?

[keen plover]

I don't want to mention diablo lol

[thorn mountain]

dilo...

[keen plover]

dilo can at least run.

[tribal idol]

honestly I would be down, but bile still needs the nerf with that

[sonic field]

dibble solos everything anyway

[keen plover]

eh

[dusky surge]

to be fair, dilo should be concerned by cerato

[keen plover]

It's a nice idea but without bacteria actually being nerfed, they'll just move onto using the basic bite

[dusky surge]

no they absolutely do not

[dusky surge]

i'd like both

[thorn mountain]

true I do think the vomit takes way too long though

[keen plover]

In that case yeah it's fine.

[sonic field]

besides crocs and stegos yes that do

[thorn mountain]

no they dont

[keen plover]

Guys.... the diet rework..........

Cerato buff

[dusky surge]

stegos are one of the things they're best against lol

[thorn mountain]

dibble is only good with several of them

[thorn mountain]

fr

[dusky surge]

cerato will never get nerfed

[keen plover]

it's over...

[sonic field]

give an example of how a dibble cant 1v1 all dinos beside stego and croc

[tribal idol]

dibble can easy 1v1 steg, you legit can stun lock it unless it gets on a cliff, and ive seen ceras 1v1 dibbles and ive 1v1'd dibble as cera multiple times

[dusky surge]

you play cerato and you can easily 1v1 dibble now

[sonic field]

in all my time playing i have never seen a cerato 1v1 a dibble especially with its op hitbox

no you can not

[thorn mountain]

any video dude

watch any vid please

[sonic field]

the only one i found was a baby dibble fightimg a grown adult

so please don't exaggerate and lie because a healthy dibble is pretty much unkillable unless you have a pack with you

[tribal idol]

ive done it and seen it plenty happen cera vs dibble 1v1

[thorn mountain]

i disagree

[sonic field]

were yall fighting a dibble that was just staring at the moon or something?

[keen plover]

idk about the 1 v 1 lol. 2 v 1 is easy mode (mutations make it very, very, very easy)

1 v 1 though they'll ruin your diets for the next hour

but you'll win

honestly run around puking stuff as cerato. Best playable to grief people with

[sonic field]

yeah 1v2 is something i can believe but a 1v1 against a dibble? lets be fr now

[tribal idol]

ive done it multiple times

[sonic field]

you must have been fighting a young dibble you not beating an adult

it can just keep head tracking you can you cant get around it

[tribal idol]

ive done it against adults, with the new drifting its a lot easier

still not favorable, but not absurdly hard

[sonic field]

Yeah I'm gonna have to not believe you on this one

one hit and your knocked with a lot of bleed

[tribal idol]

idk, this update ive probally 1v1'd around 15 adult dibbles as adult cera

which is pretty much all the adults ive run into

[sonic field]

did they nerf dibbles weight? because your not easily fighting a 3 ton trike with insta knock

[tribal idol]

they didnt, all they nerfed was its drift is slower and spar mode has a camera lock

its not easily, but its not absurdly hard

the hitbox also seems to not be as much Bluetooth anymore

[sonic field]

still it takes a considerable amount of bites to kill an adult dibble

[tribal idol]

charge bite does around 300, so 10 bites to body

not to mention normal bites you get in when its stunned in vomit animation

[sonic field]

but landing body hits on a dibble while you are solo is really hard if its actually defensive

[tribal idol]

I mean yea, but you can tank a tail hit to get around them, and then you can start to get baits and bites in

and also like 60-70% of dibbles are not defensive players for some reason

[sonic field]

thats the thing, getting around a dibble isnt easy, because it still turns quick

[tribal idol]

I mean it may just seem easy to me because I have no life, im currently at 3.2k hours, 3k of those are on evirma so

[tribal idol]

yea, but cera is just fast enough to get around if you know how to do it

you still get hit in the tail most of the time doing this, but once your around its hard for the dibble to get back into a good defensive spot if you keep the pressure up

[sonic field]

well I've played a lot of the isle too, not as much as that but that's because ive only had my pc for a short while but i do have a bunch of hours on path of Titians, i think like 2,300 maybe? and i am very much competent in my abilities to 1v1 other playes on similar dinos and i mean hell i 1v3rd 3 carnos yesterday as my teno in the big cave at highlands