balance-feedback-discussion

[hasty coyote]

yeah it still seems like a major buff to help it just obliterate its size tier and finish off larger tiers faster,

[proud hornet]

I really second the Ptera Feedback. I love that dinosaur, and I love flying But it's currently almost impossible to have fun with them with the stamina drain and bite force. So sad because I think they actually have potential.

[faint timber]

grapple is really a very troublesome feature, we were attacked by 2 carno 15 utah flan this day, we barely survived 😄

[dawn falcon]

So far from what Dondi has said, it doesn’t drain stamina any more for both parties and will force them to dismount

[alpine plover]

This was what I was thinking as well, sounded more like buff a bit

[distant torrent]

yea. I was going to immediately upvote because “PLEASE, a grapple nerf” then started reading and thought it seemed less of a nerf and more of a buff lol

[dusky surge]

it already was 25% at minimum

[distant torrent]

ew

it should always be 100%

[dusky surge]

i basically took the existing pre-requisites and made it MUCH harder

[distant torrent]

but you also made it to where a single omni has the possibility to pin a fg carno and anything under

iirc the minimum right now is always 2? no matter what

[dusky surge]

yes

[coarse blaze]

I know yesterday, I (a juvie 40%ish omni) and one FG omni pinned a 75%+ carno, possibly FG.

[distant torrent]

omni has seen more love than hypsi or dryo will ever see combined

[coarse blaze]

Omni is again, I feel one of the strongest and easiest playables. I know 3 of our omnis pinned a diablo, granted it wasn't full just yet I don't think.

Likely 60%ish or higher

[dusky surge]

im just surprised you of all people are on the same side as Mr. Carno woke Canni

who legitimately has downvoted every single piece of feedback that doesn't buff carnivores (or anything I make because I think he hates me for some reason)

[coarse blaze]

Herbivores are walking food, carnivores big scary, need more love. Herbivores too strong.

Diablo, the tiny tank should be weaker.

My genuine complaints about diablo are it's stuns to things like stego and it's hitbox. Aside from that, I think it's fine.

[coarse blaze]

I do fear for trike, I truly and honestly do.

It should be on an equal playing field as rex, if not punching up but I do worry given how much we've heard about rex and how little we've heard about trike.

[distant torrent]

tbh i want trike to absolutely demolish rex

like turn it into shredded fodder unless it has a partner because I can’t imagine trike would be able to outrun and escape a rex

if it can outrun rex, then rip stego ig because I don’t think that thing is outrunning either lol

[dusky surge]

i dont

based on what we know about rex, trike and diablo, there's almost zero way to make rex consistently win that engagement lol

besides buddying up

[distant torrent]

I hope

[dusky surge]

trike is bigger than rex, heavier than rex, has a COLOSSAL headshot damage reduction, has sparring with rex to keep rex in front of it (pretty much perfect for trike) and strafing

Rex's crush, however, seems REALLY biased towards punching down. From what we know, it has little value in bigger game fights (like trike).

it literally would not have to try to keep rex away from it. Rex needs an ambush, and several powerful hits to its sides to do meaningful damage

[coarse blaze]

Then the other hope is that it doesn't get nerfed into the ground at a later date

[distant torrent]

probably will. can’t have an herbivore that takes careful planning, consideration, and skill to kill

that’s a big no-no

[hasty coyote]

exactly, thats why we have diablo, where you just CANT kill it unless the player is dumb

[distant torrent]

a strong playable that can’t outrun the current roster of predators and likely the upcoming allo…? clearly it needs to be nerfed

(deino doesn’t count because deino is a fat rock with legs on land)

[coarse blaze]

Allo is going to replace half the carnivore roster and you already know it

[hasty coyote]

to be fair, diablo is slightly overtuned in a lot of areas. If it got slight nerfs in some of those areas it should be fine imo.

[distant torrent]

honestly I’ve always seen it as fine the current way it is (aside from the knockdown thresholds with heavier playables)

[hasty coyote]

and its a carnivore

[distant torrent]

if it doesn’t have the ability to become canni, at least it’ll be next to impossible to sustain that lol

[coarse blaze]

I think all carnivores currently have the ability to get the cannibal mutation and it's very easy to get.

[distant torrent]

things past carno shouldn’t be able to get the canni mutation imo

large pack animals like omni or troodon shouldn’t either

(ideally it’s removed entirely)

[coarse blaze]

I don't think the cannibal mutation should be in most things, pack hunters shouldn't have it either as it discourages grouping.

I liked it best when 2 creatures were cannibals

[hasty coyote]

Its acceleration is a bit too good
its weight is a bit too high
its knockdown/stun thresholds are a bit too high
some of its attacks should have a stam cost or at least a cd
its a bit too fast
its drift is a bit too quick
its reduced damage to the head should have some type of cap, so it shouldnt be able to tank 23,000 damage to the head and survive.

Other than the headshot multiplier, if they nerfed 1 or 2 of these problems diablo should be just fine imo.

the headshot multiplier def needs some adjustment so it has a cap

no reason it should tank stego swings like nothing

[distant torrent]

yea that headshot damage tanking is honestly wild

other than that and the knockdown thresholds, I’m going to play the devil’s advocate and say everything else is fine

whoops-

(there lmao)

[hasty coyote]

I did the math, it normally tanks 1/4th dmg to the head. If you block, it takes 1/8th dmg to the head. Meaning diablo can theoretically it can take 24,000 dmg to kill it. Now imagine trike

[distant torrent]

you’re not going to scratch that beast

[hasty coyote]

again, I think most of them individually are fine. Together its overall just slightly overtuned. Mainly because it just has no weakness. Like you can't exploit its turning because it can drift. And it has a lot of hp so its not like the openings you do find are vital. And then its also insane at dealing with larger threats because of its stun ranges, agility, speed, and damage reduction.

[dusky surge]

up to 80'000 effective health, if its 10t weight is to be believed

[shadow vortex]

@uncut trellis you know about 90* degrees fast turn on carno? Sorry for the ping if it happened, hehe.

[dusky surge]

Honestly... Give carno diablo's drift lol

[shadow vortex]

Maybe not 90*, but 60* for sure ig.

[alpine plover]

something I’ve noticed in both feedback channels that kind of cringes me out is when people see wavepoole make a feedback and instantly upvote, don’t even bother to read, I mean if it’s good feedback it’s good, but when there is flaws and you upvote just cuz “oh it’s wavepoole”, makes no sense

[uncut trellis]

Id just give it update 5 speed and turn radius, I at least wanna see how it fares against the current roster

[shadow vortex]

Oof, that would be cool, but I guess only for carnos xd For that and its present speed, carno would NEED to suffer weight or damage nerf.

[dusky surge]

this actually isnt the only community it happens

i guess im just that cool

[alpine plover]

You probably are and im tweaking

[dusky surge]

Nah, I'm fine if people disagree with me, it helps me learn from my mistakes

Some people I think do it outta spite for me, but lotsa people tell me why they disagree, which is great

[shadow vortex]

Btw I saw someone in here suggesting adding an "able to eat rotten meat" mutation or replacing something with it. Actually, I'm surprised that it's not in the game already, would open a nice new niche for some.

[dusky surge]

It'd be pretty damn powerful, all things considered, so there's probably a good deal of balancing factors required

[alpine plover]

A special car-…..

[shadow vortex]

Yep, but just on paper that sounds cool. Could give a lot less food and no nutrients, but at least wouldn't make you sick.

[dusky surge]

Oh, no, don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely LOVE a scavenger-oriented mutation

[shadow vortex]

And I hope the new NV and migration system will be in testing the following weeks. It would literally return all the enjoyability of the game for me

But I'm not sure if migration system that far in development rn...

[dusky surge]

new migration we know has work on it

hell, its in the configs lol

[shadow vortex]

Nicey nice then.

[slim dragon]

Casually shrugs off a direct headshot from a howitzer

[dusky surge]

this dude would be facetanking hyperendocrins LMAO

albeit, probably not for long, but still

[dusky surge]

#balance-feedback message

Got a good chuckle out of the reactions lmao. Dude upvoted himself 6 different times

[strong crypt]

idk genuinly like mixpacking should be banned

[stark knoll]

@strong crypt Please ddo not give out other players' locations

[strong crypt]

ait

[alpine plover]

@static karma Bite force isn’t dictated by the size of creatures head, sure it might be logical and is true in a lot of creatures, but in this case, it’s unnecessary

[alpine plover]

Ngl I kind of disagree with making the cooldown that long, for deino at least

15-30s seems way to excessive

Accidentally clicked the wrong button, welp now I missed my chance at presenting myself a meal and therefore I am punished

[dusky surge]

i mean

fat fingering should not be really be considered for balance lol

[alpine plover]

Fair enough but I don’t see what justifies a cool down,

Even in the swamp example they gave, a lot of people just cross along the shallower ends and if you manage to actually follow without being seen and land lunge, you then actually have to drag them to deeper water which can be far and takes stamina consumption. And 8/10 the prey (dibble sized cause migration zone) escape with a good amount of health while you land a few bites before they get to the other side.

[dusky surge]

i see exactly the reason

lunge is, by all metrics, one of the most powerful and versatile moves in the game

• prey movement lock
• instakill attack
• speed boost (can be used for mobility)

a cooldown means that a deino can't just grab, drag, release, grab, drag, release, and must kill the prey on the initial ambush

[golden coral]

I'm personally not a fan of cooldowns, but well, every other playable gets them for various reasons, so I guess it could work for deino too

[dusky surge]

i think cooldowns are fine (i personally prefer them if they're adjacent to stamcosts)

[alpine plover]

idk I’ve killed on the initial ambush plenty of times, this doesn’t seem to be a universal tactic amongst all deino players

[dusky surge]

so it shouldn't impact you really

[distant torrent]

this is exactly what I’ve been wanting for so long since Spiro

[alpine plover]

Speed boost already takes stamina though, and it’s quite significant, despite being powerful, it’s not something that can be used endlessly.

[obtuse ocean]

Cooldowns are so bad, you already failed balance when you need to put cooldowns on them. And why deino needs cd? If deino fails a lunge, and you still there drinking:P

[dusky surge]

that's only one of many possible situations

[slim dragon]

A deino failed a lunge, and by the time your dino stops its drinking animation and starts running away, it lunges you again

[obtuse ocean]

I personally never had that problem, if deino fails on me. I normally get away with ease, but thats sounds like a fix to drinking. No need for cd

[regal tulip]

If the game was running flawlessly I wouldn't mind that cooldown but the last time I played deino I let go of dinos not touching anything for no reason at all. Not being able to try and regrab them would just feel bad. In addition to that, if you drink on a spot a deino can grab you without you seeing it coming, you deserve it for being lazy enough to drink there and not looking for a safe spot. I have not been grabbed more than twice since gateway released, every spot of water has at least one safe spot apart from maybe the smallest ponds.

[obtuse ocean]

Yea same, dont have much problem with em. I kill more with a omni/cera in 1 hr then i do with my deino for 5 hrs.

[dusky surge]

that metric really is not relevant lol

[obtuse ocean]

Ofcourse not, nothing here is. We all just have opinions lol

[dusky surge]

comparing kills per hour between dinos really doesn't prove much in how viable it is

just because deino kills less per hour than a raptor doesn't mean deino getting a cooldown wouldn't be good

[obtuse ocean]

Normally in any games, if something kill more then other things. Or something is more popular etc, they change something

[dusky surge]

depends on what kinds of games

[obtuse ocean]

Now i dont know if the normal deino player kills 100 pr hour or 1 , so its just opinion from my side. Cus im not feeling OP playing it

[dusky surge]

again, kills per hour are entirely irrelevant to The Isle or its balancing

[obtuse ocean]

But i do agree, if a deino miss a lunge. It should never get a second chance

[dusky surge]

deino's entire thing is a slow, opportunistic ambush predator. It cannot actively engage with anything, it has to work off reactionary gameplay. Omni and cera can be more aggressive and actively select their fights, but have far faster food decay rates and don't have easy access to fish for food.

it is inherently designed to get less kills per hour than an omni

[obtuse ocean]

Problem i have with cd, is that normally the attack is either to good, and the overall dino is just bad. So they need to make up with a op attack. And the fights feel really unnatural

[dusky surge]

except lunge has far less value out of ambush, and is pretty much mainly a fight tool

[obtuse ocean]

I mean, lunge is really powerfull. But if you took it away from deino, it would need some seriusly changes.

[dusky surge]

no one is wanting to take it away

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, i mean as much as i hate cd. Deino would prob be the one who could have it

[coarse blaze]

It's "OP" because if you do grab basically anything on the roster that isn't a full grown stego or a full grown deino you're nearly guaranteed to kill it.

Something that can kill nearly anything with RMB shouldn't be killing that many things that often.

Also you can get multiple kills in a rather short period of time if you just know where to sit.

It did need a cooldown, before you would get lunged and pulled underwater and then just continuously lunged until you drowned. Or it was used to constantly grab people on land.

Now if you're lunged and in the process of drowning, yet you out-stam the deino now you're able to get away possbily. Rather than the deino passively regaining stamina in the water and get grabbed again.

[steep echo]

@dusky surge #balance-feedback message
Here's my proposal. Alt attack does 80 damage. Two swipes, no bite. Quicker to use and you're not locked into a long animation.
And of course make a 180 alt attack way faster than it is now

Because it's slower than a dibble alt attack

[coarse blaze]

I love how a measly 2 of my PVP deaths from this update weren't mix-pack related. 🙃

[leaden remnant]

wtf

[coarse blaze]

Every time excluding once where I've run into a carno, it's been with a cera, omnis or diablos. Carno + cera being a whopping 3 times now.

[obtuse ocean]

What did u expect? Its a giant compered to 90% of the rooster. If it can get multiple kills in short amount of time, its a popular spot. If deino knows so should others.

[devout flare]

Question, Its my first time again playing the isle for a very long time. I noticed my full grown stego got easily beaten by two full deino. Back then atleast 3 full deino cant even beat stego. Does stego been nerfed?

[coarse blaze]

You were pointing out that it doesn't kill as many as fast, I'm not shocked in the slightest. I'm just saying it should have a CD and it is in fact, to an extent OP. Despite if you feel it or not.

[obtuse ocean]

I dont get your point, you mean like 5 min cd or you talking like 3 sec so it cant just grab after a fail grab

[coarse blaze]

It's CD isn't that long, I think the lunge CD is fine and was needed.

[coarse blaze]

2 full grown deinos can easily kill a full grown stego; HP/DMG hasn't changed outside of the new power swing for stego as far as I'm aware.

Stego has been nerfed in terms of it's new attack, both in it's DMG and stamina consumption if I remember correctly. Stego can be grabbed as well if it's swimming, if you want to count that as a nerf.

[devout flare]

What??? Stego can be grabbed even full grown??

[coarse blaze]

Deino can grab things pretty heavy if it's swimming now.

[devout flare]

I think they nerf its health, in the past ive been teasing full deino in the water even. And they cant even scratch the stegos health but now

With just two bites stego is bleeding

[golden coral]

They havent, two deinos could always beat up a stego. Nothing has really changed there.

[distant torrent]

#balance-feedback message all of the increased love wanted for small playables makes me feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside

I desire for this to continue

[dusky surge]

@steep echo i'd rather hypsi just climb than have additional sprinting stam, tbh

[eager saddle]

Nah pal, you’re probably just rusty

[golden coral]

@coarse blaze Also remove, or rework, the stego tail slot. It's just silly, doesn't look good, and makes little sense at that.

[deft blaze]

I think one guy that climbs is enough

[slim dragon]

Seems like a waste to develop such a complex mechanic to only ever use it on one creature
Which also means said creature will be forever alone in its environment

[wet coral]

Two people disagreed, apparently. If anyone is opposed to this; I would love to hear the reasoning behind why you think damage buffs and resistances should remain.
#balance-feedback message

[orchid merlin]

#balance-feedback message @mortal locust I mean you weren’t even fully grown. This isn’t really just a herrera problem. Carno got horrible bleed resistance, a solo omni,teno,cerato or even a dibble could’ve bled you out.

[dusky surge]

tbh, carno's bleed resist is no different to tenos, stegos or omnis

it just has a very unique bleed system that literally no other creature has

where it bleeds more for standing, trotting or walking

but it bleeds just as fast as any other creature with zero bleed resist if sitting or sprinting

[orchid merlin]

Yea my bad. Point still stands tho

[dusky surge]

fair

carno's weird with its bleed lol

[mortal locust]

yee just wish it gave me like 3 steps away from the tree instead of immediatly sitting or bleeding out to death 🥲

didnt get bit either

[orchid merlin]

Yea I feel you. The bleed mechanic can be a little annoying or oppressive at times. That’s why I usually stay away from the hotspots during my vulnerable stages of growth

[mortal locust]

it was the small lake next to the sea with the fallen tree log/logs

not south plains

[orchid merlin]

Oh was it westrail access?

[mortal locust]

yesss

[orchid merlin]

That makes sense. I’ve seen quite a few herreras there these days lol

[mortal locust]

haha was playing tag on a corpse with one once as a baby carno vs baby herrera we kept running away from eachother and coming back to the corpse since we wanted to eat it was funny

[orchid merlin]

xD

[shadow vortex]

Just experienced the grapple mechanic... 2 adult Omnis to pin a 1266 kgs healthy Teno to death, nice. This thing really needs strict conditions

[robust jay]

Yep, Omni is basically the new metta because of pounce to pin being so easy to pull off.

Kinda sad

[golden coral]

Maybe it'll get better with the bucking rework

[robust jay]

I hope so

[shadow vortex]

Hope so, but even if new bucking is introduced, I don't think that it will save anyone from 2 Omnis pouncing at the same time :( If the current conditions are kept, that's anyway an insta-pin.

But, if we can fight back (I assume that's also a part of new bucking), then... We'll see.

[golden coral]

You have to be low on stam/health or whatever it is, so there are some restrictions. Unless weight only can do it?

[shadow vortex]

I was yellow at least, 90% stamina and full bleed. What does it take to drop a 1266 kgs Teno to yellow HP? Only 2 headshot bites or 6 seconds pounce from an adult Omni iirc. That doesn't seem like a finisher-move to me at all.

[golden coral]

Hm, not sure how the thresholds work. And well, it's not neccesarily a finisher move, as it stands at least

[hasty coyote]

2 can pin a cera with weight alone (and then 1-shot it), and it’s 1350 kg

[shadow vortex]

Well it better be then. Nothing worse than watching your well-groomed dino dissolve under those claws when all you can do is nothing (we don't talk about wall-camping, lol).

[golden coral]

Wait, with only weight, nothing else?

But how...

[sonic flame]

There are two weight thresholds, a small one that needs you to be injured and a larger one that works on healthy targets

If you are close enough to the target’s mass you’ll pull them down

[hasty coyote]

It’s about 65% weight needed to pin things. 65% of ceras weight is about 877.5, less than 2 Omni’s which are 900

[cobalt dagger]

I haven't read this whole conversation only this part. I just wanted to say, I think in the Isle, 'how much something dies' is more important than 'how many kills it gets.' Because, some examples - Herra, raptor, and Galli. They all play very differently and with some different trade-offs. Herra and Galli have superior escape methods, but less 'killing power' than raptor does. Raptor and Herra can one-shot similarly sized animals, but raptor punches up better in groups and also doesn't need the prey to be close enough to a vertical surface in order to make the kill. Galli has pretty good bleed and stun on smaller things but again doesn't get to do pounce-to-pin, both herra and galli are devoid of a pounce-to-pin and far less effective at killing teno and carno compared to a raptor, at least when in groups.

Galli isn't built on the idea of getting kills though. Galli is built on the idea of, y'know, running. And sure that running can be used to bully juvies, but more often than not that running will be used to escape predators. Every playable is built on a different concept, idea or method of survival, it's not all about kills. Not every playable, anyway.
But every playable needs a A WAY TO LIVE. Whether you want to run, fly, climb, nest, socialize, or fight, you gotta be alive if you want to do it.
Basically, not every playable needs to be designed to get kills. But, every playable does need to be designed to live by some form or fashion.

[graceful swallow]

Yes it should be 50% or more of targets weight to pin, but currently its 25% saddly

[leaden remnant]

how many raptors were there

[graceful swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1274112957286055946/omni_grapple.png?ex=66c1ba68&is=66c068e8&hm=4b811eea3fe63971f02cd85a5139d02c3716b834d8356292ac00633caf262372& apparently this is a thing, is it correct

[dusky surge]

As far as anyone knows, yea

[graceful swallow]

well lets hope its more then subject to change lul

[slim dragon]

It's like pinning
But easier to pull off

[solar folio]

2 raptors pinning a cerato is weird
corpse bully you know (helpless against 2 raptors)

[orchid merlin]

Yea

Goofy balance decision

[summer owl]

Can someone tell me why dibble can slam a carno like it’s nothing

[fervent coral]

how does a hit in the tip of you tail by a dibble slam you ??

also why is carno sooo ass now

its nerfed so hard you cant do crap

[wet coral]

Programming

From what I've heard, carno is getting adjusted

To better function in his "small game hunter" role

[hasty coyote]

For 3 main reasons:
1: carno was designed to punch down, not punch up. Something like diablo is very outside carno's intended size range (hence why carno ram stuns itself on diablo and deals 0 damage, and actually takes recoil if it hits the head)
2: diablo is meant to be able to defend itself from things bigger than itself, hence its insane knockdown and stun ranges that allow it to flip other diablos and stun stegos.
3: Diablo is a bit op atm

[hasty coyote]

latency and slightly messed up hitboxes, with their powers combined they give diablo deceptively long range

[fervent coral]

thats so weird

also stegos are fast asf

[leaden remnant]

27.6 km/h iirc

[cosmic pelican]

26.2km/h as adults

You were close :p

[obtuse ocean]

Not sure if diablo is op, its stego who needs something. Its still a giant compering it to all land dinos. Diablo shouldt have any trouble 1v1 rest of the land rooster

[leaden remnant]

o

[hasty coyote]

I’d say it’s slightly op in a lot of areas, it basically has no weaknesses. It’s not insanely op, but too strong imo.

[fervent coral]

diablo is OP lol

[dusky surge]

source

[orchid merlin]

Source trust me bro

[cobalt dagger]

I agree with this assessment. It is really strong but it can't chase your carno down if you just run away from it so you can pick the fights as carno. Diablo also still gets grabbed by big crocs even though they both grow for a similar amount of time.

[orchid merlin]

#balance-feedback message being a bleeder dosent mean that you should have bleed resistance. Also you always have the option to rest and let your packmates take over.
Honestly the last thing omni needs is a buff, it can delete half of the roster with the regular pin and 2 omnis can animation lock a fg creato to death (full stam, full hp, full blood)

[leaden remnant]

@shell crag cera is 2 hours rn

[shell crag]

oh without perfect diet ?

[leaden remnant]

with perfect diet

[shell crag]

oh so i must have confused the times

[leaden remnant]

i've absolutely no idea about how long it takes without perfect diet

[shell crag]

i tought it was 5 hours and 2.5 with perfect

[leaden remnant]

oh

iirc the exact time is 2h 5 mins

or 2h 3 mins

[shell crag]

perfect diet gives +100% growth so it must be 2 hours with perfect diet and 4 without

[leaden remnant]

it's gotta be that yeah

[shell crag]

looks good

[leaden remnant]

by the way, are you sure stego should take 3 hours?

it's super powerful right now

[shell crag]

its pretty hard to maintain perfect diet with stego and survive with him so i think yes

even a dibble can kill a stego

[leaden remnant]

ehh yes and no

[shell crag]

stunning him and hitting him with his super range

[leaden remnant]

a stego can defend itself from a dibble easily

two is a bit more a pain in the ass

three is very very complicated

[leaden remnant]

i understand

however it is so powerful that i believe it's reasonable

there's ways to boost your survival chances

(bush gaming)

it's like deino yknow

[shell crag]

yeah but you need to go to mz to get perfect diet any way

[leaden remnant]

yus

[shell crag]

so i can edit the suggestion to idk 8 hours

[leaden remnant]

8 is too much...

nothing should take that long

maybe an unkillable sauropod with frickin poison or something

rn it's 5 iirc which isn't that bad

it's still a lot but for what it gives...

[hasty coyote]

magy

[leaden remnant]

nahh

im talking about a pue that poisons you if you bite it

nice

[shell crag]

yeah bro i dont know how pll have time to grow stego rn 10h is just too much

[orchid merlin]

I hope i don’t get banned

[shell crag]

its a almost a full day

[leaden remnant]

tbh diet thing is crazy

like perfect diet literally halves the time

[shell crag]

yeah you walk 1 hour to mz to find all foods except // one

[leaden remnant]

absolutely crazy man and not in a good way

[shell crag]

idk

i think its good the diet thing but 100% its rlly too much

[hasty coyote]

honestly tho, heres the way I see it. Officials are generally for a more "hardcore" experience like most survival games. If you don't have/want to spend the time on it, you can go to unofficials who can increase growth speed and change other stuff to make things more streamlined.

[shell crag]

the times should be reduced a lot and diets too

[shell crag]

most people work

[hasty coyote]

most people get perfect diet and grow it in like 5

[shell crag]

getting 0% // diet at mz?

[hasty coyote]

yes, hence why there are other options like unofficials. For example, I never played official ARK because I don't have the time for it, but its there for those who want to play it. I always played ono unofficials that boosted stats to make things easier.

[leaden remnant]

i agree

[shell crag]

ooohhh i love ark

[leaden remnant]

another reason to not play officials

[orchid merlin]

But this is a survival game!!!🤓

[leaden remnant]

not a good idea to only give reasons to not play officials

[leaden remnant]

balance survival with time

[shell crag]

i dont like community servers, i prefer no rules servers like official

[shell crag]

yeah bro

[leaden remnant]

rn we got like 100 reasons to not play officials

we don't need more

[orchid merlin]

Nah bro. Spending 10 hours growing is an enjoyable immersive experience

[shell crag]

do you work or something ?

[orchid merlin]

No. I’m a terminally online person

[shell crag]

oh, this explains everything.

[cosmic pelican]

He pulls up for a full 8 hour shift on the isle to play herrera every day, Im not joking

[shell crag]

blud have no life

[leaden remnant]

he's joking btw

he's being sarcastic

[shell crag]

oh sorry, my first language is not english so its a bit hard for me to understand

[orchid merlin]

Look in the feedbacks

No worries

[cosmic pelican]

You should name urself mr.herrera honestly, sounds rly cool

[orchid merlin]

[leaden remnant]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

THERE IS NO WAY BRO SUGGESTED THAT

[leaden remnant]

dw man

actually hold on

i dont think anyone's first language is english out of everyone who's talking here rn

[orchid merlin]

Ima delete that before I get banned hold on

[shell crag]

oh
nice

[shell crag]

lemme see

cant find nothing

[cosmic pelican]

Probably for the better LOL

[leaden remnant]

rn we got:

• you die to a cheater/bug/server fault? all good make a ticket you get your dino back within a few hours/minutes instead of "shouldn't play the game when you know this is gonna happen"
• not ridiculously long growth times that actually support ppl who don't have all the time in the world
• so many admins that no cheater even dares get in the unofficial servers
• no mixpackers
• almost double the population as officials
• half of 1/3rd of the ping you get in officials

what else would you want

no frickin wonder petits is going as good as it is right now

super simple rules, fast as heck support, etc

[shell crag]

do you know any good comunity server with a good players count and no realism rules?

[leaden remnant]

petits pieds

[shell crag]

i hate realism rules

[leaden remnant]

170 people, i get 40-60 ping with no lag, rubberbanding or desync issues, super few rules, everything's in english

and fast as heck admins

[shell crag]

whats the rules?

[leaden remnant]

no mixpacking/overpacking, no cheating, basic common sense rules

[shell crag]

and do you know if its possible for a server to have less growth time for dinos? if yes any good server with no realism rules and good player count?

[shell crag]

looks rlly good

[leaden remnant]

i once got stuck, i thought i was dead cause of my official servers experience, opened a ticket just in case, an admin literally said "Hello, how can I help you?" BEFORE i could even explain what was going on

literally took 5 SECONDS 😭

[shell crag]

thats PERFECT

[leaden remnant]

and hear me out

[shell crag]

never playing official again

[leaden remnant]

mfer said "what's your hunger/thirst" to waht i replied with "10% food, full on water", and he literally said "oh yeah hold on imma make your hunger 30% im unstucking others right now"

[shell crag]

oh gooood

[leaden remnant]

2 minutes after that he pulls me out and says "very sorry for the wait, have a nice one"

[shell crag]

it only gets betterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[leaden remnant]

i was straight up thinking wdym very sorry for the wait

[shell crag]

broooooooooo why is official servers so bad

[leaden remnant]

i dont frickin now

last time i played official (few months ago) to test pachy viability guess how i died

[shell crag]

bro wanna add and go duo in that community server you said?

[leaden remnant]

two speedhacking ceras frickin killed me

[shell crag]

so you can show me

[leaden remnant]

JUST as i spawned

[leaden remnant]

the invite is in #unofficial-isle-communities

[leaden remnant]

no "yeah sure here's your dino back sorry for that", no nothing

never bothered to get in an official after that

[shell crag]

yeah bro

[leaden remnant]

theres another server called megalodon, well they have two servers

[shell crag]

thats rlly bad

[leaden remnant]

they have normal rules, etc, the thing is, it's in russian

you need someone who speaks russian or a translating app

[shell crag]

i prefer english servers

[leaden remnant]

the rules are in english

the other things are in russian tho

[shell crag]

i know nothing about russian

[leaden remnant]

dw i barely know any russian

i barely even know the alphabet to begin with

[shell crag]

i know 0 russians

[leaden remnant]

i know maybe half of it which tbh helps a lot

anyways if you die to bs they give you your dino back but fully grown

[shell crag]

whoaaahh

so good

[leaden remnant]

the other day i got ganged up by dibbles as another dibble in a protected area as a 60 something % dibble

so i go ahead open a ticket and like 10 mins after that i had a fully grown one

[shell crag]

whoah

[leaden remnant]

i trip on air, get stuck and fall off a cliff as a 70% carno, i open a ticket, next day i got a fg one

die to 5 dibbles as a 90% stego, open a ticket, free fg stego

never ever play officials man

[shell crag]

yeah bro

[leaden remnant]

just never

[shell crag]

just learned my leasson

[leaden remnant]

there is no point

[shell crag]

" community better than the actual devs "

[leaden remnant]

it's not the devs who decide that

and tbh most devs dont even decide anything

they literally create animations or script so it's unfair to label them as the ones who make the decisions

however the ones that decided how officials should work... yeah about that

[shell crag]

idk then

[leaden remnant]

probably not the best idea to make official servers a pain in the ass

[shell crag]

this server is

russian or english?

[leaden remnant]

everything is in english

the owner is french and has some french channels (only chat channels)

[shell crag]

even the players? xd

[leaden remnant]

the players also speak in english

[shell crag]

looks good

[leaden remnant]

absolutely everything you need to know is in english

it's got a 1x2 - 1x4 depending on the population growth boost

so like you can easily grow a big thing in way less time

[shell crag]

whoah

[leaden remnant]

stego for example, from 5 hours to 3.5

[shell crag]

loved it

[leaden remnant]

it's also got a system to control population

beyond a certain number of people playing a species, that species is disabled until the number goes down

[shell crag]

looks perfect

[leaden remnant]

so like if theres 15 deinos (theres never 15 deinos) you can't spawn as a deino

it can be very annoying if you die but uh

[shell crag]

in official 60% of the players are like dibbles

[leaden remnant]

me personally i dont like having 25 deinos in the highlands lake

[leaden remnant]

aint happening in that server

i mainly play on that server

[shell crag]

i hate finding 30 dibbles pack just killing everything

[leaden remnant]

few things that i don't like is for example carnivore mutations being nerfed and herbi mutations not being nerfed as a result

[leaden remnant]

theres overpacking and mixpacking rules so that aint happenin

[shell crag]

idk i think its okay i dont care so much about muts, its a small bonus

[leaden remnant]

i dont really mind either

[shell crag]

only for carnivores and deino is a big deal bc

[leaden remnant]

as long as they do the thing 🤷‍♂️

[shell crag]

eat heal mut and salt water mut

[leaden remnant]

yeah

saltwater mutation is honestly great imo

i absolutely love it

[shell crag]

eat heal mut is pretty op tho

[leaden remnant]

yus

[shell crag]

i used it with cera a lot, is just overpowered and broken

[leaden remnant]

lol

it is crazy indeed

[shell crag]

yeah

[leaden remnant]

doesn't make any logical sense

[shell crag]

can you add me and help me find the server? the english one
i only played community servers at legacy ( in 2019-2020 i think ) i dont remember well how to do it

[leaden remnant]

dms

[shell crag]

okay

[fallen vale]

Well we are under severe DDOs attacks. Some people don't like it

[orchid merlin]

I wonder who is behind it all🤔

[leaden remnant]

yup

absolute goobers

[alpine plover]

“Ridiculously wrong growth times” I haven’t seen a growth time that is ridiculously long

[orchid merlin]

The growth time being changed was kinda unnecessary imo

They were good before

[alpine plover]

When were growth times changed, huh

[hasty coyote]

shortly after gateway became the main map. everything got like +20-40% time to grow

[coarse blaze]

How is being able to go from 2-shot to full health mid combat because you can just eat anything, including your packmates fair. Why do you gain such an absurd amount of health from 2-bites of food. 🧍

If herbivores could easily eat mid-fight rather than often times be stuck outside of zones they're even allowed to eat in, carnivore mains would riot that it's too strong.

[dusky surge]

Lmao absolutely true

[coarse blaze]

Herbivore takes 2 bites of jackfruit, instantly back to full = Unbalanced

Omniraptor takes 2 bites of dead omniraptor, instantly back to full = Balanced

[hasty coyote]

*insert standard copy pasta of Omni being an apex predator deserving the buff because lag, while the whimpy herbivores need to be put in their place.

[slim dragon]

And grass and become immortal

[coarse blaze]

Insert literally any other carnivore in place of omniraptor and the results still remain the exact same.

Swap to #EatGrassandLive

[dusky surge]

#EatGrassandThrive

[coarse blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/thinking-black-guy-tap-head-gif-27536171

[mortal locust]

Are people just ok with growing for 10-5 hours with a single dinosaur and then loosing it under 1 minute?

I really don't get it tbh

[dusky surge]

you musta screwed up real bad to lose it in one minute

[mortal locust]

I don't think I can kill a full grown cera/carno/diablo or 2 raptors that pin me to the ground as a 3-4 hours stego

Let alone outrun raptors when they're too many and I'm just too small

[dusky surge]

raptors being broken is just raptors being broken

i'd rather that be fixed than growth be reduced

[mortal locust]

So you're saying you could also kill any full grown carnivore as a half grown or 3-4 hours in stego

[golden coral]

?

[coarse blaze]

Yes, you can. You deal massive DMG at like 50%, not to mention you have a lot of health compared to them.

Maybe with the exception of deino, because deino.

[mortal locust]

Ohh I see

Always think the tail deals near to no damage at 50%

[coarse blaze]

A baby stego deals a lot as it is, people complain about it all the time.

But no, at 50% it's still pretty chunky

[mortal locust]

So full growns are just tanking it haha

[coarse blaze]

You have 6k health at full grown, so yeah pretty tanky.

[dusky surge]

Baby stego got nerfed in hordetest lol

[coarse blaze]

Oh? Does it deal even less?

[dusky surge]

Ya

[coarse blaze]

How much does adult troodon do per bounce?

[leaden remnant]

troodon

[leaden remnant]

in january iirc everything got from a 10%-20% increase to a double or even more

[golden coral]

How long is that growth now?

[leaden remnant]

either an exact hour or 1h 5m

maybe 1h 10m im not very familiar with it

for obvious reasons i never play troodon

[cosmic pelican]

Stage 1 seems to be around 40dmg, while stage 3 seems to be a bit over 100

Its 1h 10min

[leaden remnant]

tf

[cosmic pelican]

Exactly enough that you can get to fg with a full stomach and perfect diet

[leaden remnant]

nice

herrera ptera and troodon have the same growth time

[coarse blaze]

Thank you.

[leaden remnant]

while herrera easily 1-2 taps both of em

smh

[coarse blaze]

It'd 1-tap them from a decent height

[leaden remnant]

talkin about biting

[cosmic pelican]

Its still too long though imo, if it could actually survive 1 hit from omni sized creatures at least it would be passable. But dying to 1 mistake, or lag spike is really rough

[leaden remnant]

1 taps with a jump from any distance

[coarse blaze]

Troodon I think takes a bit long, same with ptera

[leaden remnant]

should be no more than 30 mins imo

[cosmic pelican]

Herrera can 1 shot troodon with an alt to the head, and they have the same growth time

[leaden remnant]

i can even understand ptera cause it really has no danger up there but doesn't make it less annoying

[cosmic pelican]

Np ^^
Take it with a grain of salt though, I didnt have anyone to test exact numbers with yet

[leaden remnant]

i get herrera one and think it's alr, but troodon, cmon

lil boi troodon

dies to one bite from a raptor

takes 30 less mins to grow than a raptor

cmon

[eager saddle]

#fixthetroodonhpbug

[cosmic pelican]

Its intended sadly

[eager saddle]

What.

That’s so dumb🤣

[cosmic pelican]

I literally cried when someone pinged me with this😭

[eager saddle]

Ah yes

Because it wasn’t a glass cannon anymore /s

Make it around 100 or something

90 is passable, but come on 60 hp for a 1 hour growth is brutal

[cosmic pelican]

Problem is, it seems like devs dont want to make an exception for it, and its weight cant be increased either cuz then it just pins beipi :/

[cosmic pelican]

Make troodon 85kg 🥔👍

So it can survive an extra herrera bite, and a singular bite from an omni to the body

[eager saddle]

Wait it dies to 1 omni bite to the body?

[mortal locust]

seems like the isle wants to be a one hit to kill a dino game sometimes

[eager saddle]

Sheesh……

[cosmic pelican]

Omni does 65dmg per bite, troodon has 60hp, so mathematically speaking yes.

[orchid merlin]

Increase beipis weight☑️

[orchid merlin]

Herrera’s growth time takes like 10 mins less than pachy’s😭

[cosmic pelican]

Whole tiny tier needs urgent buffs honestly. Even if they turn out op, I really doubt anyone would complain, at least they would be played lol

[orchid merlin]

Agreed, except for dryo

[golden coral]

But they wouldn't be played for the right reason, they'd only be played cause best kill ability for time investment, which isn't really good

[orchid merlin]

Is there any other way to make them enjoyable to play tho. Swimming as a beipi gets boring after a while

[golden coral]

There are, but it would require actual survival requirements for larger critters, and considering I keep seeing a lot of complaints about not enough food in migration zones/lack of AI still, I don't think that will happen any time soon.

That and envrionmental factors that we don't really have much of that should make a difference

[cosmic pelican]

Lets be real, thats the only way to make them actually played considering the community. Even though beipi for example has incredibly fun movement I havent seen a single beipi for MONTHS, and I think that says a lot.

[orchid merlin]

Herrerasaurus’s playerbase would be dead by now if it wasn’t for those changes it received

[golden coral]

I am aware, I just do not think it's a good idea, because then we'll never get away from the "PvP mentality", which as far as I know, they do want to move away from

[golden coral]

People also do think herrera is too OP so there is that

[orchid merlin]

Few people do

[golden coral]

I wouldn't say few with the not that uncommon feedback of nerfing it's bleed and/or damage

[frail bobcat]

I have never seen the community unite this crazily behind a balance opinion as the fact that beipi needs buffs

[orchid merlin]

Look at the downvotes and compare it to the upvotes

[golden coral]

If I were to judge only by that, we'd have a stego be like it was when it was first added stat wise to be fair

[orchid merlin]

I mean there isn’t much to do besides fighting other players, nesting isn’t fun at all and I can’t think of anything else

[orchid merlin]

Sure but all I’m saying is that the people complaining about Herrera are like 15 people max lol

[cosmic pelican]

Buffs dont necessarily have to be buffs for pvp though, increasing dryos speed to be the same as an omni again wouldnt make it any better of a hunter, and it may revive its playerbase a little. Or increasing beipis breach height, giving troodon mimicry etc.

[frail bobcat]

herra is like a nonissue

[golden coral]

In any case, while yes, buffing the tiny critters so they can kill even better will undoubtedly make them more popular. Not saying otherwise. But I don't think it's the way to go, since then people will only focus on that, which leads to gameplay people then complain about (why is everyone just killing mindlessly and being toxic and so on)

[golden coral]

That's fair, but it's more so because there is no other challenge, and no one really wants one either

[orchid merlin]

I would want one. But I don’t think that there will ever be something MORE fun that pvping

[golden coral]

True, it doesn't have to, I'd be fine with non combat related buffs (just like non combat related mutations are good, while the combat ones are... well, interesting I guess)

[golden coral]

Depends on how it's done, but it's not neccesarily about finding something more fun than pvp, which can be done but might be difficult. It's about challenges that makes it so you don't have time to pvp, in a sense.

Challenges that would be easier for tiny critters. Troodon and herrera survives on AI. Omni and larger can not. Beipi, dryo, hypsi can find food at all times, larger herbis can not. Floods, droughts, challenges that tiny critters can ignore, or deal with easily, compared to larger ones. Stuff like that.

But that also means there has to be an understanding that "free life" only applies to tiny tiers, which are in turn limited in power, but would be suited for just having an easy time staying alive, nesting and so on. Which requires an acceptance of larger tiers being a situation of "you will not live long the majority of the time you even grow up" and people don't like that. Herbis should be nice to each other, and so on, the mentality in general is that you should be able to survive pretty easily. Only apexes, and even then, are considered for "harsh" survival.

[orchid merlin]

A single boar can feed a family 5 omnis wym

[golden coral]

Yes. That would be my point.

[orchid merlin]

“Omni and larger can not”

[golden coral]

Right, now consider the entire context and what I said earlier and after.

I am talking about how it should be, using those as examples. Talking about challenges and how it would make tiny tiers be better off in "life" in general.

Right now, you can sustain yourself just fine as stego, diablo, even deino, and "smaller" critters too (if we consider something the size of a bear or larger small I guess), there's little benefit in being a tiny tier.

But if you were to do it that way, people would complain because they want to live so they can go fight

[leaden remnant]

i don't see a problem with that ngl

[cosmic pelican]

Considering the insane damage potential it has, yeah

Ive seen herreras literally solo ceras and carnos, something a pachy can only dream of doing, even if the other player is really bad

[leaden remnant]

pachies can solo ceras and carnos

not difficult

[golden coral]

If a herrera somehow does that, they either dropped like a nuke, or the other player were asleep at the computer. And if we're purely talking damage potential, I've seen claims that troodons can also solo carnos

[leaden remnant]

troodons can't solo carnos 😭

[keen plover]

Nah it's very possible. It takes like 2 good drops on a carno

[golden coral]

How are you getting more than one though unless the carno is afk

Unless you're dropping in tandem, but then we're talking pack hunting, which would apply to troodon too and so on

[leaden remnant]

carno doesn't know how dangerous herrera is

[keen plover]

First drop takes a lot of blood from the carno, so they run and then sit, setting up more hits

Literally how it goes. They run into a jungle to sit > extra hit

[golden coral]

Do you actually bleed out if you run from one drop, with full stam, until you can't run anymore?

[keen plover]

Pretty close

[cosmic pelican]

If they have the braincells to just face the pachy and trade a bite every time it rams them, its literally impossible

[keen plover]

I dropped to like 17% bleed once in a test

[golden coral]

Still survivable then, if you, you know, don't run into their territory where they can just get you again, or don't go sufficiently far away so they can't catch up

[orchid merlin]

Same but it is NOT a tiny tier like troodon

[leaden remnant]

no sir

[keen plover]

That was on a test server with max hunger and water though lol

[golden coral]

I would honestly count herrera and dryo as close enough to tiny

[leaden remnant]

in fact it's easier that way

damage reduction + head fracture

[golden coral]

Well, you don't need to run the entire stam bar empty, unless they made herrera really good at pursuit now?

[leaden remnant]

you can facetank a cera that way

[leaden remnant]

yus

[orchid merlin]

Why the hell would you run into the jungle to escape a herrera? That’s like using the water to escape the deino or the plains to run away from a carno😭

[keen plover]

Herrera has a lot of running stam and good base speed. They can keep with a bleeding carno and bite as well when they sit.

[keen plover]

Because sitting in the open with low blood on an official server is also a bad idea

[golden coral]

Right, but if they're on the ground, are you somehow not able to just hit them?

[leaden remnant]

like actually soloing a cera as a pachy is not difficult

[golden coral]

And did they make herrera faster then?

[keen plover]

You can. Again, most players fail at that and die

[orchid merlin]

You don’t necessarily have to rest tho. You can just keep running and the bleed will eventually stop

[golden coral]

Cause last I played, you weren't really fast on the ground

[leaden remnant]

45 km/h

[keen plover]

45km/h is decently quick + speed mutation

[leaden remnant]

quicc

[orchid merlin]

How fast was it before

[golden coral]

Right, mutations, forget them xD

But was that increased then?

Cause it sure didn't feel like that when I last was one

[keen plover]

47.2km/h with speed mutation.

[cosmic pelican]

Even if you get the head fracture on the first hit, a head fractured cera only needs 9 hits to kill a pachy if it trades, while the pachy needs 16 hits.

[orchid merlin]

That’s on them tho

[keen plover]

That's true. I never disagreed with this as a tactic. It's just most people see their bleed dropping a lot and then decide to rest nearby.

[leaden remnant]

sire a face bonk does like 300+ damage

[keen plover]

It is, which is why I have 0 problem with current herrera :D

[leaden remnant]

and the cera would do like 50 or less damage to the pachy

[orchid merlin]

Fair enough, I asssumed that you were implying that herreras are OP lol

[golden coral]

Should have been more of a pursuer than ambush though, would have been cooler!

[leaden remnant]

head fracture and it's over

[golden coral]

Tree pursuer even

[orchid merlin]

Yea I always play like that. I don’t like the “use baits tactics”

Works quite well

[cosmic pelican]

Math aint mathing for that though, that would mean it can 2 shot an omni, which isnt the case from experience

But Id love to be proven wrong, pachy has been doing really rough recently

[orchid merlin]

Pachy is pretty strong ngl. Remember the time when we killed dibbles and carnos lol

[cosmic pelican]

Dont make me post that picture of 8 omnis falling for a painfully obvious trap I set up

[orchid merlin]

LOLL

[cosmic pelican]

It took 5 of us to kill a not even fg dibble protected by a fg, and only I lived in the end, so not really tbh, especially when we consider dibbles max weight was only 2 tons back then.

[keen plover]

I wish lmao

[leaden remnant]

puts a raptor to orange hp iirc

so it has to do something around that damage

[keen plover]

I can't talk numbers but you should probs test it again? That shouldn't be the case

[leaden remnant]

hmm...

alr ill do some testing and let you know

[fervent coral]

do it with carno

[hasty coyote]

@feral hazel while I agree with the first part, the second part is just going to end with min-maxing.

Say I'm a carno, dealing 10% more damage to wounded targets is pretty good, but dealing less bleed damage is basically a non-issue since bleed isnt my method of killing, damage is.
Or say I'm omni, 15% less damage from larger species is basically just 15% more max hp, the downside of taking more from smaller threats is also a non-issue because I can just pin and 1-shot them.

In a lot of cases, the downsides you proposed are non-issues for the ones who are taking them. Even if you make them have actual down sides, people will find the meta and use the most efficient ways. Honestly, I still think they should all just be removed or at least disabled on officials. They only promote the deathmatch mentality and make the qol mutations obsolete. No matter how good the qol mutations are, an advantage in combat is almost a must-have because if you don't take it, you're at a disadvantage from those who do take it. Its literally the reason the 15% more damage to the same species mutation was removed.

[feral hazel]

The suggested downsides aren't final, it's just to show an example of downsides. Also in regards to your examples, you are thinking of a perfect scenario for both Carno and Omnis. Yeah, you can pin a smaller one and kill them. This however requires for you to pounce on them not to mention what if the said smaller are more than just one player. If you would take more damage from smaller animals, that would include higher damage taken from troodons or juvies.

Anyway, the downside suggestion was just an example, you can have anything else to it

its up to your imagination

[cosmic pelican]

(Also it would make omni way more vulnerable to herreras)

[hasty coyote]

heres the way I see it, you would have to tailor each mutation to each dino to have downsides actually be effective. Like 15% less damage from larger targets is good on cera, but the 8% more from smaller targets does make you have to think. or 10% more damage on wounded targets is good for omni, but the 5% less bleed damage makes you have to think if it worth it. However, as I pointed out, some of the downsides are basically non-issues for certain playable.

And for all the effort it takes to balance out these mutations, why not just remove them and make the base animal good rather than having to balance the base animal AND its mutations (most likely ending with min-maxed mutations being op or necessary to feel normal).

[hasty coyote]

it already gets 1-shot by them anyway, it aint changing much tbh

[cosmic pelican]

Smaller herreras would be a much bigger threat at least

[hasty coyote]

like it makes omni more vulnerable to herreras and troodons. Even then, if you die by them, the mutation likely did not make the difference. However, that same mutation could save you from pachies, ceras, carnos, tenos, and diablos.

So slightly more vulnerable to something that 1-shots you anyway and something that needs to outnumber and outskill you to win, but get +15% max hp in pretty much all other scenarios. I know what I'm picking

[feral hazel]

it's useless to argue as I said it was just an example. You could tailor it for each species or have a globally accepted one. The point is to have a downside

[leaden remnant]

@tiny sigil i don't think anyone has said carno is balanced

i might be wrong tho

either way completely agreed with what you said

[hasty coyote]

what I'm arguing is that a global downside will not work, and tailoring it for each species will end in things being 10x harder to balance

[feral hazel]

I disagree with being 10x harder to balance, it would be quite the opposite. The only thing would be bad that it would take hella time to do.

tailoring a mutation to each playables is the perfect way to make it fit the playable aka easier to balance it

because for each species the downsides have different meaning

Taking more damage from smallers by 10% for a Rex is different than as of Troodon

[tiny sigil]

You claim that the Carno is now balanced, but I strongly disagree. How is it possible that the new Diablo can easily knock others to the ground without any issues, while the Carno has to wait at least 4 seconds to do the same, consuming half of its stamina, and the Diablo can do this while standing still? Additionally, the maximum group size for Carnos is 3, but for Diablos, it’s 5 (as far as I know). Another example is the Packi, which can continuously perform their charge attack with minimal stamina consumption.

The 4-second charge attack requirement for the Carno is excessive and unnecessary. It puts the Carno at a significant disadvantage compared to other species. Reducing or eliminating this delay would help balance gameplay and make the Carno more competitive.

why not?

explain i dont understand you problems

[hasty coyote]

then you run into people being able to min-max mutations. So either you have to balance them so that taking all combat mutations makes you op, or the combat mutations have basically 0 effect. Thats the crux of my issue. They are either strong enough to make an impact (aka op), or not enough to make a difference (aka borderline useless).

[feral hazel]

I disagree with that

Min maxing will always be a case

if you introduce something in your game which players have power to influance and that said thing is a variable that is tied to player power

min/max will happen regardless if your balancing is good or bad

[hasty coyote]

thats why I want the min-max to be a minimal as possible, hence why I hate the combat mutations. If they were qol, it would be fine. However, speed, hp, and damage are the 3 things I think mutations should never touch. And you can notice, the mutations everyone says are op are the ones that touch those 3, because they can change the outcome of entire fights. Cera outspeeding pachy with speed mutations, omni healing to full from 3 bites, deino 1v1s being decided based on who took more damage mutations.

[obtuse ocean]

I mean speed could work on some dinos, like deino. If u make it 5% faster land speed. That means i could avoid a dmg deino if im going survival etc. And 5% land speed to deino, wont have any impact i think on land dinos

[orchid merlin]

Bro got clowned on for sum reasons😭

And ofc it’s the “herbisneedsbuffs” dude

[leaden remnant]

yup he got clown reacted

clown reacting someone for his opinion shows who the real clown is

[orchid merlin]

Precisely

☠️☠️

Herbi glazers the moment you suggest a reasonable change to carnis:

[distant torrent]

• the slowest current land carnivore can outrun a diablo, so diablo cannot pick and choose its fights and needs to be able to effectively defend itself (though it being able to kill things as large as stegos needs to be looked at). it’ll need the instant stun, especially against allo who I assume will be faster than it (or herds of dibbles will be able to chase it down)

• carno is the fastest playable in the game (aside from flying ptera and speed boost galli iirc), so it has the ultimate luxury, which is choosing any fight it wants. it being to stun nearly instantly will not be very balanced due to its speed (though the ram cost is definitely absurd, that’s true. imo it should be able to instantly stun half its weight and below but need the windup for above that threshold)

• diablos are a defending herd animal. it only makes sense they can have more pack members, as they don’t have the luxury of outspeeding nearly the entire roster. if carnos are to get more pack members, then they need to be nerfed in some way to better balance it. again, they have the luxury of picking fights and dipping from fights before they even happen

• instant charge carno was incredibly OP when it was still a thing, caused by the acceleration buff carno got (the windup was introduced to get rid of that)

so yea carno doesn’t need instant charge unless it’s for things half its weight or below, and it’s stamina consumption for ram needs looking at

I have hope all of this will be considered in carno’s apparent upcoming changes

[leaden remnant]

uh

[distant torrent]

those two changes alone i just mentioned won’t fully balance carno either. it’d need a bunch more changes, such as food consumption and tweaked agility

giving it back its instant charge with no other changes is just about the worst thing you can do for balance (not the worst)

[leaden remnant]

slower acceleration then

ez

[distant torrent]

then it becomes spiro carno?

[leaden remnant]

yes

thats the point

give it its former glory back

[distant torrent]

nah it needs to be the small game hunter it’s meant to be

[leaden remnant]

without being able to solo tenos spamming ram

[leaden remnant]

yeah i agree with this

however rn it aint the small game hunter it's meant to be thanks to the abhorrent turn radius and how badly ram sucks

(not entirely but primarily)

we also got food drain, diet drain, etc

[distant torrent]

I personally think carno’s going to really suffer if it’s not changed into a small game hunter

with the introduction of larger playables, I doubt more people will be playing things around its size range it can hunt and fill up on like teno or cera since its not very good at punching up

people will be playing larger playables to die less, so that means less food sources. even less people will be playing them once smalls get major QoL updates, such as burrowing and hypsi’s climbing. if it’s a small game hunter, it’ll really thrive when smalls get their much needed QoL updates and mechanics

[distant torrent]

yea. I’m really hoping carno’s upcoming changes address it all

[leaden remnant]

hopefully

[leaden remnant]

yes

[orchid merlin]

It should stun things much smaller than themselves by not needing half of your stamina bar and a 7 second long wind up. Carno isn’t OP at all lol.
Dibbles have 3K hp with a reduced head shot multipler.
Not to mention that it’s extremely quick in water and can use it as an escape option. Carno needs its stun to be able to hunt small game

[distant torrent]

it used to be OP, but it’s not anymore. I agree the stamina cost is absurd and needs looking at but yea

instant stun for smaller game = okay

instant stun/knockdown for a catch-all 1800kg and below = not okay

[orchid merlin]

Tbh carno gets completely countered by the A and D keys, that’s how bad it’s turn radius is. Things like ceratos can still dodge it so I don’t think that it would necessarily make it OP

I don’t mind it being able to stun things around it’s size

[hasty coyote]

Unattended children are small game.

[leaden remnant]

💀

[distant torrent]

I suppose that’s a valid point lol

[alpine plover]

Pause ⏸️

[orchid merlin]

#balance-feedback message @shell crag their damadge shouldn’t get nerfed. Small≠weak

Herrera isn’t really that small. 175 kgs going at high velocities will do a lot of damadge lol

[alpine plover]

Someone needs to make an actual reasonable balance post regarding Herrera

I haven’t seen a single good one besides a small cooldown after a missed pounce

[neon hound]

Also the herrara isn't small

Dyro, Hypsi, Beipi and Troodon are small

Herrara is smaller medium

Also the nerfing it's jump is taking away it's main damage

Also the pounce damage scales with target weight

[slim dragon]

Nerfin its jump "against subs and adults"
So no damage change against juvies
Which, on top of being unnecessary, makes the ability inconsistent and makes no sense

[neon hound]

Yes

[dusky surge]

https://tenor.com/view/lie-lie-detector-cap-you-are-lying-stop-lying-gif-12198388917433403789

[leaden remnant]

250-300*

[dusky surge]

not even close

headbutt does around, like, 80 damage

which means that it'd be doing around 120 on headshot

[leaden remnant]

what

nuh uh

minimum 225 damage

puts you straight to orange as a raptor

[dusky surge]

weird situation because it's been around 80 for a good while

i think 85 was the exact number

the attack got absolutely gutted a while ago in damage output

[leaden remnant]

straight up impossible tbh

[dusky surge]

straight up isnt tbh

[leaden remnant]

otherwise soloing ceras would not be possible

unless

they shadow buffed it

[dusky surge]

i was QA. last i tested, it was around 85, and it hasn't had a single damage buff ever

or at least, not a listed one

[leaden remnant]

when did you leave qa

[dusky surge]

while ago

[leaden remnant]

i see

[dusky surge]

pre-gateway

[leaden remnant]

must've gotten a shadow buff then

does a tremendous amount of damage rn

that's why i claim that head fracture and it's over

[dusky surge]

if it does, maybe the animal is actually good now

doubt it does that much though

[leaden remnant]

it's been doing 225+ damage since gateway dropped or before

[dusky surge]

absolutely not lol, that's simply not possible. pachy only hit that hard on launch

it's been getting nothing but damage nerfs

[leaden remnant]

only head bonk

anything else does very lil

[dusky surge]

also makes little sense

because damage multipliers are universal

[leaden remnant]

i just know that if i can solo ceras in few head bonks as a pachy and i get put straight to orange pachy does a lot of damage to the face

i can try getting exact numbers later

imma go do smth rn

[keen plover]

Should be easy to get with admin panel.

Since you can see their health and all

[leaden remnant]

yus

[leaden remnant]

200 damage

well depends on how charged the bonk is

can put you in deep yellow/deep orange

so between 200 and 300

[leaden remnant]

9-5 but in the isle 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

[orchid merlin]

I might be a lil addicted to it

[leaden remnant]

lil my ass

[vale brook]

#balance-feedback message

"small animal" ITS A PIANO WITH KNIVES ATTATCHED TO ITS LEGS FALLING AT MACH 20 FROM 100 FEET IN THE AIR

https://tenor.com/view/morris-marina-top-gear-piano-morris-marina-gif-7239412

[slim dragon]

That car should have lost 20% of its health max

Also the amount it bleeds from a single piano is ridiculous

[coarse blaze]

It doesn't I recently smacked a dilo 3-4 times with a ram and it didn't die. If it did that much, it wouldn't have lived like it did.

[leaden remnant]

face bonk

rest are very little damage and a fracture

[dusky surge]

face bonk is only 50% more damage

[leaden remnant]

cant be

[dusky surge]

is

[leaden remnant]

impossible

[dusky surge]

that's how it works lol

[leaden remnant]

it cant be that i take very lil damage from a body bonk and take way more damage from a head bonk

[dusky surge]

head multipliers are only not 1.5x on special animals

[leaden remnant]

(if those numbers were correct)

body bonks do little damage and fracture, head bonks do a lot of damage and give a head fracture

im not fully sure about the damage a body bonk does

i just know it's not much

[golden coral]

Maybe there's something else to it, did you try all kinds of hits on a target and then calculate to see?

[slim dragon]

Maybe omni has a 4x damage multiplier on its head

[leaden remnant]

yes

im not sure about the damage a body bonk does, i just know it's not much

however a head bonk easily puts you to orange hp if charged for a small bit

[orchid merlin]

XD

[coarse blaze]

I think pachy is practically useless, it's trot is slow, it doesn't deal that much in general and it's punished for missing rams. It has fractures and that's it's only perk.

It's incredibly squishy on top of it all.

[orchid merlin]

Not really. 500 HP is decent, yes it’s not the best but it doesn’t have a headshot multipler lol

Also don’t miss ur rams

[coarse blaze]

500 isn't a lot at all, it dies to a single omniraptor pounces + 1 bite.

[coarse blaze]

Raptors should be stunned too then when they miss their pounces.

It's not fair that raptors can just spam pounce and miss for days without being punished.

[orchid merlin]

Takes like 20 seconds and your whole stam bar to kill a pachy with raw damadge using the pounce.

[coarse blaze]

Ram launches you forward, it's far easier to miss.

[coarse blaze]

And? It's still 1 pounce.

[orchid merlin]

Eh, maybe but pachys ability is far deadlier

[coarse blaze]

You can pounce from 3/4 angles too, it's not hard.

[coarse blaze]

Disagree, even if the pachy snaps your leg if you managed to pounce it's very likely it'll bleed out regardless.

[orchid merlin]

You can bonk them from all angles so it’s a skill issue if you get beat by an omni😭

[coarse blaze]

"Bonks" are locational based, you need to aim to break specific areas so that's not really true.

Body bonks barely do anything DMG wise

[orchid merlin]

They won’t be able to one shot you with the pounce because of the stamina

[coarse blaze]

Omni can pounce anywhere not the face and latch

[orchid merlin]

Also you can abuse terrain to scrap them off the moment they pounce

[coarse blaze]

If the omniraptor has conserved even half it's bar, it'll be enough to bleed them.

You say that like the time it takes to run to a tree and scrap them off doesn't deal more DMG. Not to mention some areas have 0 terrian to do that.

There's genuinely no real counterplay to pouncing currently aside from a mutation slot.

[orchid merlin]

Pachys do knockdowns and can often land an extra headbut since it recovers a bit faster than it’s victim

[orchid merlin]

I mean, unless you got ambushed you should have plenty of time making it to a tree. This isn’t spiro

[coarse blaze]

Again, that's if you don't get pounced. One pounce is all it'll take. If the pachy misses a ram, you can just take advantage of the stun it has so it's far more open to the pachy missing a beat than it is for the raptor.

[orchid merlin]

Skill issue

[coarse blaze]

Yeah, now your stamina drains if you run with something stuck to you too, you're right. It's not Spiro.

[orchid merlin]

Use the tres if you don’t wanna buck

[coarse blaze]

Please put trees everywhere then, I'm sure people would love that.

[orchid merlin]

Trees are already everywhere?☠️ fym

[coarse blaze]

Or you could just rework how bucking or pouncing works. Make it a hard playable and not the easiest and strongest carnivore to play.

The entirely of SP plains have 0 trees

[orchid merlin]

It’s getting reworked lol

[coarse blaze]

No rocks either.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Pachy's bleed got buffed and yet, it still doesn't matter.

[orchid merlin]

Are you serious? Herrera’s go on a killing spree over there lol

[coarse blaze]

Plains, you didn't read the plains part.

Not the river by SP.

the plains that lead to West Rail towards the beach, the entire area is flat.

[orchid merlin]

Pachy isn’t a plains dino tho. Why would you be out in the open

[coarse blaze]

It is actually, it's a coastal and plains dinosaur.

That said plains is near the West Rail coast.

[orchid merlin]

Costal yea, plains not really

[coarse blaze]

East Plains and NE Plains are 2 of it's MZs.

[orchid merlin]

And why can’t you just bonk the omnis before they pounce u again

[orchid merlin]

It has a MZ in the jungle aswell

[coarse blaze]

Why can't you just punish raptors for missing again?

[coarse blaze]

Not sure how that's relevant, but yeah.

My point is, one pounce will kill a pachy. One bonk isn't going to kill a raptor. The pachy is stunned if it misses, the raptor doesn't need to worry about missing and can try immedaitly again if it does miss.

Omniraptor is far more agile, it already have the upper hand in multiple areas.

[orchid merlin]

“Not sure how that’s relevant” bro, ur argument was that pachy is a plains dino because it had NEP as its MZ. Buddy😭,same logic could be applied here

[coarse blaze]

It has one jungle MZ and eats 2 things within it, it doesn't tend to spawn anything. The majority of it's MZs take up plains and coastal.

The jungle MZ mixes in with a coastal one if you want to be technical.

There's a post from a few days ago complaining about that very thing.

[orchid merlin]

Uh yea in most cases, one bonk is enough to render the Omni useless and immobilized. Unless it’s a head fracture it’s ggs for the raptor

[coarse blaze]

Pachy needs to aim for the legs of a very agile raptor to cripple it, the raptor just needs to look anywhere that's not the face of the pachy to pounce.

[orchid merlin]

I’m not sure about that. Locational fracture is kinda inconsistent. And pachy’s are agile aswell, u can dodge it + omnis can’t hit them from all angles

Seems fair

[coarse blaze]

That's not a playable issue though. It is locational. Pounce is inconsistent too with how it magnets onto things, I don't count that because it's likely not the playables fault.

Pachy is agile yes, but it's not more agile than omniraptor in the slightest.

Omniraptor can pin from 3/4 of the body, if you miss you can immediately try again without any punishment; especially with how generous the stamina is on omni. One pounce will bleed out a pachy.

Pachy needs to aim where it rams, said ram also launches you like a rocket making it fairly easy to miss. If you do miss, you have a fairly chunky animation to wait through before you can try again. One bonk will not kill an omni and it's not guaranteed to cripple it either unless it actually hits the legs.

I'm only saying that it's incredibly strange how pachy is the only playable that is stunned for missing, the bonk is strong yes, but omniraptors pounce is stronger; especially with the grapple mechanic.

Also omniraptor can just stand on a slightly elevated surface honestly, if the pachy rams and misses it's going to snap it's legs because the "rocket" thing.

Pachy can knockdown omni, yeah but again one if far easier to land than the other. One is actively punished if it does miss while the other isn't.

[orchid merlin]

You shouldn’t expect to have an edge when your fighting an omni in its terrain/biome. And not really, Pachy’s got crazy good bleed resistance.

Now I do agree that omnis needs some adjustments but pachy is fine honestly. No one can find themselves in the situations your mentioning, there’s often trees nearby and you can easily make it close enough to one unless you got caught in an ambush.

Also omnis need to aim their pounce like pachy’s do…

[coarse blaze]

God no it doesn't, pachy's bleed is awful and it's been buffed.

We'll have to agree to disagree, however I will say that I shouldn't need to rely on abusing terrain in general.

Yes, both have to aim to an extent. With ram it matters what you hit when ramming as it effects the target differently DMG and fracture wise. With pounce, pouncing from either side or behind doesn't effect how much DMG or bleed it'll do.

With how many people love omniraptor I'm not shocked but the majority have agreed that it needs some sort of punishment implemented for missing pounce.

[orchid merlin]

Yea fair enough

[coarse blaze]

There's a reason you don't see that many pachys around.

[slim dragon]

When any playable is dominating like pachy was at release, it gets nerfed
But when it's a carnivore it gets buffed again later

[coarse blaze]

I both am very excited for trike and very scared for trike because of that.

I'm shocked teno has been left alone since it's last nerfs.

[slim dragon]

wtf raptor can't fight a trike it's so unfair, raptor NEEDS to kill trike to be viable

[coarse blaze]

I'm tired boss

[leaden remnant]

yes and no

it is squishy but can destroy an entire pack

[leaden remnant]

that is only 44 and 57 ppl tho

that is not even 0.1%

[leaden remnant]

my good sir raptor pounce is not stronger

the pounce to pin is, but not the pounce

[leaden remnant]

not even close to useless my good sir

trot speed is ass

damage is meh, but it has fractures

you don't need to kill everything you see for a playable to be strong

you can disable something with a single hit

pachy isnt weak cause it can't kill 5 ceras on its own

pachy is good cause it can straight up no you a carno that's trying to kill it with a single hit

it's not meant to be killing things like some ppl wish it did, if it was update 6 pachy again we'd surely have some fun

[orchid merlin]

^fr

[leaden remnant]

some ppl here sound like update 6 pachy wasnt enough for them

they want apex pachy that can solo entire groups of everything even deinos and stegos

you miss your absolutely deadly ram and you get stunned, that's fair, cause otherwise pachies would be unkillable

and it's also fair that raptors don't get stunned because this ain't spiro, there's trees and walls everywhere

if you see 5 raptors and you're a lone cera, you might as well get the living hell outta there

it's extremely ignorant to claim that just cause pachies get stun it's fair for raptors to get stun as well

[coarse blaze]

I want more viable pachy, a lot of what you're saying here is incredibly unrealistic or just untrue.

[leaden remnant]

stun them with a tree

[coarse blaze]

I'm not arguing about this again, agree to disagree.

[leaden remnant]

that's fine, i also wouldn't mind some tweaks to pachy

some things would be nice for it like faster trot and other qol things

[coarse blaze]

It's trot is so much worse than I remembered, genuinely thought I was z walking.

[leaden remnant]

i just don't want pachies to be able to commit the murder they committed in update 6

[leaden remnant]

oh yeah no it is terrible

[orchid merlin]

buff trotting across the board now that the stamina system is horrible🗣

[leaden remnant]

i simply feel like most of the things you say aren't even true or apply to both dinos

[coarse blaze]

Troodon, ptera, pachy, dyro, hypsi, all could use TLC honestly.

[leaden remnant]

but at the same time i agree with some other things you say

[coarse blaze]

Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I agree with a good few things you say, some others not so much. Tis be how it is. 🤝

[leaden remnant]

i guess

[leaden remnant]

why did you read my mind

[leaden remnant]

actually why play pachy when you can play teno or dibble

been giving herbi a try these past weeks

i dont see a reason to play pachy

[cosmic pelican]

Excellent mixpack/mixherd tool 🤓

[orchid merlin]

”#troodonontop”

[leaden remnant]

not wrong

[cosmic pelican]

Same for hypsi

[leaden remnant]

but if you play pachy it's likely that you only wanna break everyone's bones 💀

[alpine plover]

It’s not terrible 😢

[coarse blaze]

I like pachy, and I liked it more when I saw players however, it's MZ really leave it have very little player interaction.

I do actually really like teno, but I did play it more recently.

I like diablo too, however cannibals and mixing have been pretty rampant since the update so it's a bit of a mixed bag to play for me currently.

[leaden remnant]

i hope mostly all dinos get some sort of qol

[cosmic pelican]

Me and another based troodon player managed to kill a dilo in a 2v1 today. Troodon is the best dino ever

[coarse blaze]

I played troodon yesterday and had fun, played it solo however.

I killed a lot of omniraptors until I got unlucky.

[leaden remnant]

hol on lemme pull up with my 19000 characters essay regarding why it sucks balls

[orchid merlin]

Nerf troodon, its OP!!

[cosmic pelican]

Herrerasaurus 1 shotting a dilo:

[leaden remnant]

im pretty sure troodons do extra damage to dilos

[cosmic pelican]

Nope

[leaden remnant]

might be wrong but

it just feels like it does a crap ton of damage to dilos

[cosmic pelican]

Its never been a thing, and why would they

[leaden remnant]

ive absolutely no idea

[coarse blaze]

Troodon is really fun in packs honestly but when I played yesterday, the one only troodon I saw was a cannibal and friend did not win that battle.

[cosmic pelican]

120dmg on stage 3, combined with dilos utter inagility goes hard

[leaden remnant]

yeah nevermind it all makes sense now 💀

[coarse blaze]

120 on the pounce correct? Isn't it like 80 or so per bite on stage 3?

[orchid merlin]

Yea only down side is that it takes 1 hour to grow

[coarse blaze]

I know my little pack of 5 or so troodons did manage to kill a land deino while it was traveling.

[cosmic pelican]

I havent tested bite damage yet, so cant say. But its pounce absolutely melts small tiers now

[coarse blaze]

And can't even tank a single omniraptor bite.

[orchid merlin]

Buff its HP to 120

🗣🗣🗣

[cosmic pelican]

Give it back its 120hp or buff its weight to 85 pls

[coarse blaze]

Just a little, a smidge

[slim dragon]

Troodon's gonna be made of uranium

[orchid merlin]

Its still vunerable. 120 isn’t that much

[leaden remnant]

that by itself is enough to deter me from playing it

[cosmic pelican]

1 troodon should fill up a deino completely

[coarse blaze]

I miss being a little on edge hearing a pack of 7-8 troodons but I rarely hear more than 2 now

[leaden remnant]

you hear troodons?

[slim dragon]

I'm talking about the weight buff
I like it when things make sense (they never do in The Isle and it's annoying)

[orchid merlin]

Haha i feel u

[leaden remnant]

head frac is absolute ggs for the raptor btw

[cosmic pelican]

Even though I play troodon almost every day, the last time I saw another one of my kind was almost 3 weeks ago

[leaden remnant]

does over half your hp most of the times and barely lets you see

[leaden remnant]

i heard a juvie troodon today, went a month without hearing a single

[leaden remnant]

body frac lets you go for a bit more

[orchid merlin]

Can omnis out stam pachy’s

[leaden remnant]

yes without a body frac

[orchid merlin]

☠️

Then yea it could be ggs

[leaden remnant]

the thing is that you find a bush to sit in but you can't see

turns out the bush is complete ass and something finds and kills you

head frac is super dangerous not cause of the fact that it does so much damage but cause of the aftermath

id rather have dilo stage 3 venom than head frac

[orchid merlin]

I found a whole pack the other day lol😭

[leaden remnant]

wtf

[cosmic pelican]

WHICH SERVER

[leaden remnant]

last time i saw one was 2 months ago or smth

and that was the only time ive seen one since gateway dropped

[orchid merlin]

It was on NA4 on the HT

[cosmic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

so my poor troodon is forever destined to be lonely

[orchid merlin]

Honestly it was a blast. We hunted an omni lol

[leaden remnant]

yes

[cosmic pelican]

Not like I mind though, random troodons always die in the first engagement anyway :/

[leaden remnant]

unless they do some troodon tweaks

[cosmic pelican]

you were playing troodon?🤨 📸

[leaden remnant]

honestly

[orchid merlin]

Yes i had to see what all the hype was about lol

[leaden remnant]

theres smth that ive noticed

[cosmic pelican]

The venom should either last longer, or affect attack speed and speed tbh

[leaden remnant]

when you bring up raptors, pachies, spiro or stamina in a debate, prepare

but when you bring up trodoons everyone wants it buffed to the absolute sky

and nobody has an issue with it

[leaden remnant]

yes

[cosmic pelican]

every time Ive brought up troodon buffs someone always shoots it down

[leaden remnant]

wat

[cosmic pelican]

yeah

[leaden remnant]

wtf

[orchid merlin]

LMAO

Its that one mf

[leaden remnant]

troodon is literally

[cosmic pelican]

"buffing it would powercreep it" "It will be even more oppressive to the other small tiers" (just buff them too)

[leaden remnant]

100 times worse than it was in spiro

[cosmic pelican]

Id have to disagree

[leaden remnant]

it's still got spiro balance

[keen plover]

nah

[leaden remnant]

im merely talking about things like stam and more

forgot to clarify that

[cosmic pelican]

The damage buff it got is actually decent, and back when it had 120hp it was incredible

Me and a friend literally managed to bully a whole omni pack out of the swamp, they were 8, we were 2

[leaden remnant]

it's got spiro stam balance (just a bit less consumption), venom timers fit spiro stam, etc

(as in venom runs out super quickly, which was also the way you got your stam back, quickly and without issues)

[cosmic pelican]

The fact we could tank a hit, then sit down and heal in 2 mins thanks to troodons incredible regen was so fun

[leaden remnant]

yus

and also 1h 10m growth time 💀

[keen plover]

I mean it runs longer than on spiro, Pounce costs 5% stam instead of 10% and it regens decently well

[leaden remnant]

ban that person
jk

[orchid merlin]

Does anyone know all the growth times

[leaden remnant]

i know most

[cosmic pelican]

you can get to fg with 1 full stomach and perfect diet, it aint that bad

[leaden remnant]

yes but hear me out

[cosmic pelican]

just throw down a juvi omni for yourself and afk till adult

[leaden remnant]

when you get close to 60%, the prey only has to run and it's joever

and you get close to 60% a lot

[keen plover]

That's why you're in a pack. Have one focus on running things down

[orchid merlin]

Same, but i forgot what deinos,stegs and carnos GT’s were

[cosmic pelican]

I have a decently accurate list, its quite a few months old, may be outdated by now

[leaden remnant]

carno is 2h 30m iirc or 2h 40-45m

deino is uh 6 hours? (not sure) stego is 5h-5h 30m

[cosmic pelican]

carno is 2h 45 mins, deino is 4h 30 iirc, havent tested stego but ive heard its 6 hours now

[leaden remnant]

yeah but like

too complicated for such a weak playable

[orchid merlin]

Growing 2H and 30 mins just to hunt fresh spawn dryos🔥 small game hunter

[leaden remnant]

aye aye sir

[hasty coyote]

(as if the venom isnt already complicated)

[leaden remnant]

yes

[keen plover]

I sorta see what you mean but also eh?

[leaden remnant]

too many complicated things, too many stats to learn, etc

talk about metagaming when the entire damn game is about exact stats that you cant go beyond

the game itself is a stat at this point

[cosmic pelican]

also troodon is probably the hardest playable to actually master, since its so unforgiving. 1 mistake and you lose all your investment. Which can be very discouraging for newer players.

[leaden remnant]

yes

adn the investment is 1h 10m

[hasty coyote]

honestly tho, all troo needs imo is a shorter growth time. You can't prevent things from running on 3rd stage because then they''' just run on 2nd, if we prevent 2nd they will run on first, and so on.

[keen plover]

45 minute grow time would actually make me play it more often

[leaden remnant]

most ppl dont have as much time tbh

[leaden remnant]

for what it delivers tbh 30 is enough

[cosmic pelican]

Thats old spiro growth time right?

[keen plover]

Nah

[cosmic pelican]

That would be decent

[hasty coyote]

exactly, lower the investment so dying to lag aint as punishing

[keen plover]

That feels too short for its power

[cosmic pelican]

30 mins when it can 3 shot dryo is a bit wild yeah

[leaden remnant]

eh

it's a small tier

(imo small tiers should take very little to grow)

[cosmic pelican]

even to me, and im EXTREMELY biased lol

[hasty coyote]

30 is the absolute min I'd give it, I think 40-45 is better

[leaden remnant]

(that way it's very incentivized to play them)

[keen plover]

I think so, yeah

[leaden remnant]

small tiers should imo get very short growth times and forgiving gameplay

[keen plover]

It was perfectly fine at that range

[cosmic pelican]

It would feel perfect then

[leaden remnant]

like not having to micromanage your entire existence and the philosophy of life

instead just spawn eat fun

not spawn "HOL ON not yet not yet gotta wait close to an hour", get outside to try to have fun and "hol on nuh uh no running too much no using stam to travel", see something "hol on you gotta learn all these stats to play", try luck, fail, "hol on you gotta manage your diets man cmon get to the diets", get them "get water boi", get water, "hol on you gotta manage (insert 10000 things here)"

i get micromanaging for larger things

just not troodon

or other small things

they dont feel like "little fun creatures" they feel like complete ass

they feel worthless and a waste of time