balance-feedback-discussion

[swift beacon]

I call that karma

[dusky surge]

This is literally revenge balancing all over again lol

Except instead of stego it's for deino

[vital basalt]

I think that's gonna be the problem with Apex's in general, people get fed up of losing to them and complain untill they become irrelevant

[swift beacon]

difference between Stego and Deino is that you're forced to interact with one and it's an autolose matchup for more than half the roster

[vital basalt]

To be fair I don't think Deino should be useless but having them be less of a constant presence in great numbers all the time would be nice

[swift beacon]

if Deino has the tools to survive in specific environments, it'll be fine. most Deino players are gonna jump ship to Rex and Spino anyhow

[dusky surge]

which is my problem, I don't want spino to just be "deino but better"

[true ginkgo]

main issue with deino is that facing one is 0% skill

just empty looking patch of water, take a sip, respawn screen

[swift beacon]

^^^

[vital basalt]

True Deino is reliant on basically being a 1-shot machine

[swift beacon]

Spino won't ever be Deino but better because it lacks the stealth option due to its battle standard and (presumable) lack of lunge

it might be better suited for what the average Deino main uses the croc for, but it won't ever be a better Deino

[vital basalt]

I mean Deino like Alligators really aren't fighters as is, they're opportunistic ambushers

[swift beacon]

Spino being double to triple Deino's height

Spino being a better brawler but a worse hunter is entirely in the realm of reason

[dusky surge]

I really like the idea of spino being the second slowest animal in the game to anky

[swift beacon]

icing on top of this is that it'll probably need to rely on the crocodile staying and fighting to actually kill it unless it has a grapple that works on creatures that size

[dusky surge]

But being a COLOSSAL bully

[swift beacon]

which, seeing as we see Spino slapping a Cheirus rather than wrestling it down into the water, I feel is unlikely to occur

also of note is that Spino is biting at Deino

the only problem with my theory here is Anky-flipping, which if Anky is at the speculated size of 9400 kg, means that Spino can grapple things larger than itself

though this could be a specific Spino/Anky interaction or a subadult

hard to say this early in advance

[obtuse ocean]

That wouldt suprise me, acro will also be able to do this. And how you kill a anky unless you get to its "soft side"

[swift beacon]

hard work, determination, and choking it out

[obtuse ocean]

Depends, as spino?

[swift beacon]

first two yes

[dusky surge]

i honestly hope the only two things remotely capable of killing an adult anky is an adult rex and an adult spino. Everything else? Get bent

[obtuse ocean]

lol yea good point

[dusky surge]

seriously, anky not caring about most of the roster is entirely in character for it, and gives it a super chill vibe

why bother with that which can't harm you in the first place?

[obtuse ocean]

yea i totally agree, love the chill vibe style.

[latent lotus]

no but ur talking about the old punishment which ment death

damn this is a long threm discussion

[latent lotus]

yeah but yknow how legacy was and judging by spino concept art it wont be remote :/

[dusky surge]

?

[latent lotus]

not a remote chance of killing a anky

rex nd spino

big big chances

[obtuse ocean]

You mean its big chance of spino killing anky? Or anky killing spino?

[thin mantle]

I’d still argue that nothing should literally ever have a good shot at killing an Anky

Moreso that some Dino’s are even able to harm it, whilst most others simply can’t

[obtuse ocean]

@bold smelt 3 and 4. Why on earth should they get that treatment? When they need food aswell. They slow,big,less stam/agility. They already have tons of weakness, and you want to take away those few things they need. If something that big manages to sneak up on you, he deserves the kill.

I saw you wrote to me in general, but think its better to discuss here if u want

[bold smelt]

true

here its better

but they do not have those weaknesses we know very well that they will dominate anything they come in contact with by the devs themselves, some like rex and giga also have massive smell range and extremly fast trot so its not even easy to avoid them, killing them while they are young is essential for a balanced gameplay

[obtuse ocean]

Oww, i totally agree. They gonna be really strong, im gonna kill every single apex growing if i can. But if you have the skill to survive/hide/prob some luck aswell. You deserve it.

also, we talking grown or while growing a apex ?

[bold smelt]

i want fewer apexes to reach adulthood, adult apexes will be busted for sure

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, i agree. But leaving huge traits behind. Is not you beeing good or skilled, for me thats more like luck if you manage to grow it.

[bold smelt]

if you are costantly active that wont be an issue and thats how apexes should be, these traits and hunger should keep them on costant move.
Skilled players who move properly will be able to reach adulthood while players who try to afk or less skilled players who go in the open will die

[obtuse ocean]

Yea i agree on the hunger. Like you walk around hide/run lookout for stuff that can kill you and manage to avoid them. But then a random guy just hits q to sniff for water or whatever, and he sees huge traits. For me thats just luck or unluck

[bold smelt]

i was thinking mainly that the trails apexes leave behind should be a different colour than regular, so still not easy to track but you know what you are going after

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, if you get spotted im all for it to be easy to track etc. I just dont want it to be huge areas of scent, and espescially not for adults. Since the hard part is actually not getting spotted when you try getting close to something.

And honestly, im not sure if i would want to go that direction the apex scent is lol.

[bold smelt]

the nerfs i was thinking were mainly for juvies growing, idk if these should change upon reaching adulthood cause then the gameplay changes complete

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, but i just dont want it to be luck. Like you do everything right, and actually put effort in to grow it. And a random guy was pushing q, and the traits pops up. Yea as adult you need somewhat stealth, a rex you see is prob not gonna be a problem.

[bold smelt]

true let me edit that, what do you think of a growth sprout? so like until 70% you are rather small but then you grow very quickly, so you are volnurable for most of your growth and also you dont overlap with mid tiers like subrex with alberto

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, that sounds better. I want hard survival, but not by luck. But dont edit it, as far as i see. You are getting much more upvotes then downvotes.

[bold smelt]

well the goal is to make a comment that the devs find usefull not to get upvotes

[obtuse ocean]

lol, thats a darn good answer : P Yes true

[bold smelt]

yeah true for the lad who deleted it'

[vital basalt]

Does Cera's body buff 'build up' like a food buff or is it a 'you're near bodies here's a lot more HP'?

[cosmic pelican]

Its instant

[vital basalt]

that's even more insane

and I don't think it should apply on bodies you've just killed

like say you're fighting raptors, you kill 1 due to Cera's strong moves and bam you're basically unkillable

seems a bit, excessive

[cosmic pelican]

How would the game differentiate that tho?

Id rather nerf ceras stam and make charged bite cost some stamina

[vital basalt]

It'd be hard to differentiate I'm sure but it's still a bit silly that a move that's more meant to be a 'defensive' measure for guarding corpses you've come across to eat/steal corpses becomes this massive powerspike in combat situations if you get a single kill

the only other creature I can think of who really gets a combat 'boost' is Troodon and that requires three pounces

[dusky surge]

pretty sure corpse movement SHOULD apply a cooldown before the buff activates, according to what devs have said

[vital basalt]

Meh plus the guy wanting to buff Deino lunge to allow them to sprint while holding 'smaller' dino's is silly you shouldn't be grabbing things far enough from the water that you require sprinting to get back

[golden coral]

@valid sedge I believe the issue is more so that when rex and trike drops, stego will get buffed/powered up in some manner, which would make it as "unkillable" as those two, hence it goes off the roster. They could nerf rex and trike instead I suppose, but I don't think they want to do that, and stego has been slated to get more tools and stuff at some point, so doing that so it "matches" the other two makes sense.

[valid sedge]

Yeah but in the meantime it shouldn’t be so unkillable. They could just buff it later down the road, idk why people are so contrary at the idea

[golden coral]

Probably because it's not as unkillable as people think. Omnis can hunt stego, troodons can (for some reason...), cera can outright vomit lock a stego, and deinos in pairs can kill one as well. And then you have to consider the growth time and all that, if you'd nerf stego, you'd have to make it far quicker to grow as well, to make it worth it most likely. So while nerfing it would be an option, it would have to come with a bunch of other adjustments, some of which would have to apply to deino to keep the matchup there. And deino does, surprisingly enough, quite some bleed on a stego.

You could nerf both deino and stego to make them fit with the roster better, but I guess there'd be little point in that if they are both intended to be far more powerful in the long run, especially now that stego is also slated to go to unofficials, and deino might get it worse on gateway and all.

[cosmic pelican]

I think deinos bleed has been severely nerfed in 6.5
A deino once got my stego to 28% hp and the bleeding stopped at around 85% (yes I was sitting a lot, but its still far less than last update)

[golden coral]

Hm, that's interesting, sounds promising

[bright oasis]

Wasnt unique bleed modifiers included in this most recent big update?

[cosmic pelican]

Yep they were

[hallow spire]

@rotund basin It is a survival game bud lol

[keen plover]

Herbivores are an option. Easier to maintain and there's grass pretty much everywhere

Or play Omni or Troodon

[dusky surge]

@rigid tulip the size and hitbox are fine, the charge damage is its biggest issue

[rigid tulip]

charge damage is so ridiculously high

in my experience

as a teno carno does nothing to me unless it lands a charge

[dusky surge]

fun fact, it is the highest damaging non-apex attacks in the game, as well as having knockdowns

it does NOT need to be this high

[hollow canyon]

because it's a very poorly designed playable

Carno was much better when it turned better but had a useless charge

[hollow canyon]

it's not true

it's only the 2nd highest damaging non-apex attack in the game if you wish to call it so

it's also relatively difficult to land and can't be used in a succession, it's just a bad ability

@wispy valley why would you further buff Cerato?

[wispy valley]

😦

[hollow canyon]

its growth is already one of the better growths in the game

it has an AI only in the slot where getting player-meat is very difficult to impossible

[wispy valley]

Hopefully, in the future, ceratopsids like Proto and Ava give lipids too.

[slim dragon]

@lean bramble Cerato has fracture resistance... for some reason

[lean bramble]

ah okay

I just find it a bit strange considering the carno weighs a lot more

[slim dragon]

I find it strange too, cera has so many advantages going for it

[keen olive]

@harsh jetty venom is increasing pounce damage or does damage over time?

[plucky aspen]

its supposed to do both, but currently the damage over time is a heal over time

[tall bronze]

So it makes prey heal more? O_o

[rigid tulip]

Please elaborate??? What

[plucky aspen]

#videos-and-streams message

[vital basalt]

Huh wild, well the damage buff to pounces still makes it potently dangerous but yeah the healing should be fixed lol

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah thats ridiculous

Didn't even realise poison doesn't work, how in the hell did this not get picked up on in QA, venom literally doesn't... venom?

[dusky surge]

that's not what's happening and that video is incorrect about how stage 3 is supposed to work

stage 3 has absolutely zero damage over time

stage 1 and stage 2 do have DoT

stage 3 does not, never has

[plucky aspen]

Hmm. what would cause the rapid healing then atleast?

[dusky surge]

no clue, diet

[plucky aspen]

cause you still seemingly heal faster than natural healing (diet was 1 single 3 dot diet)

[dusky surge]

video editing

[plucky aspen]

I can promise you that the video wasnt fast forwarded at all ( i was there to help test it)

[alpine plover]

deino is strong enough it doesnt need damage resistance on the back

even if its not realistic, they got to balance it for video game purposes since its pvp

[latent lotus]

@alpine plover it really doesn’t need it ngl, how would it change anything in deino. also yeah i do indeed hate on deinosuchus

[warm shuttle]

What the frick, you dont even do venom as troodon????? You just bleed???

Most polished and buggy dinosaur survival game on steam

[latent lotus]

so like why so many of u hated on this

[latent lotus]

no that’s not true…

aint no way

[warm shuttle]

I have no idea its a good suggestion

I guess people like the easy bandage fix for stego

[pseudo spruce]

I mean, it doesnt stop them from regenning health, thats the whole fundamental of a poison or venom, its constantly efecting the dino

[latent lotus]

isn’t troodons venom just a damage buff?

[warm shuttle]

Maybe people like the idea of stegosaurus being untouched by the entire roster but deinosuchus

[latent lotus]

k to everyone that said that cerato needs ai on diet cerato is a scav and it’s one of the few design isle devs got right. stop crying about not being able to growth at safety and go kill some players

[latent lotus]

and deinosuchus tbh

and uh lots of complains so not really

[warm shuttle]

Wdym

[latent lotus]

like why i actually don’t know what’s with it

[warm shuttle]

People appear to love stego regardless it being untouchable / so hard to kill its not worth it to even try by the entire fully land roster

God i cant wait for apexes to come out so stegos actually have a reason to be careful

[latent lotus]

that is why steg played love steg, and steg players love steg not people

[latent lotus]

also they boddycamp

[warm shuttle]

Maybe people love the power fantasy they get from adult stego

[latent lotus]

yeah me too

[warm shuttle]

I mean, what r u gonna do if a stego body camps?

[latent lotus]

i mean yeah

[warm shuttle]

what, fight it and try to get your body back?

pffft try

[latent lotus]

nothing and that’s why some people hate on them

[warm shuttle]

I am one of those people who have a burning hatred for stego

[latent lotus]

u can’t cause stego is invencible

[warm shuttle]

No idea why they added such powerful creatures so late in development

Deino too

[latent lotus]

to conter croc and croc was added to advertise and oh they did it well

boosted the player base

[warm shuttle]

Why couldnt they have started with low tiers mixed with mid tiers and then much later on in development added apexes like rex, deino spino etc

[latent lotus]

i’m sorry but nerfing steg is so better then removing it from oficials

[warm shuttle]

I agree same with all the apexes

[latent lotus]

advertisement from croc

[warm shuttle]

Its just a easy fix bandage

[latent lotus]

theyr literally putting the dirt under the carpet and i bet u money they gonna blame community servers if anyone complains

[warm shuttle]

If anything they have theirselfs to blame for even adding actual units so early in development with mid tiers and low tiers

[latent lotus]

not when they now have a free pass to blame community for steg

[warm shuttle]

Its just so frustrating

There is a dang good reason veterans are leaving the game and moving onto games like beasts of bermuda and path of titans untill they the devs actually make their game good

[latent lotus]

yeah..

weird how no AAA has made any dinossaur survival

[warm shuttle]

Beasts of bermuda and PoT by the looks of it are actually progressing and developing as games while the isle is stuck in update and development hell with consent content droughts lasting months

[latent lotus]

true but i gotta say they went hard on the last update

also the isle is just superior the those i gotta say

[alpine plover]

Alr bro, rip to dienos likeness lol

[latent lotus]

yknow i tey to be positive about the isle and its devs but something its just not a thung

[latent lotus]

k but please answer my question

[warm shuttle]

Yeah the isle is slightly better but in time i bet BoB and PoT are gonna out compete the isle tbh

[latent lotus]

u can just drown everyone

[alpine plover]

Guess it would not change much

[latent lotus]

well there is steg but rather nerf steg then buff deino

[alpine plover]

And i think they should not nerf them, there is a lot of cannis anyway.

[latent lotus]

deino? there are not that many u can find large amounts at center

[alpine plover]

Dienos are fine, if they had a tiniest nerf community would go crazy and cry lol

[warm shuttle]

Deino is fine

[alpine plover]

Yea

Preety balanced, some players just chillin'

[latent lotus]

yeah deino is fine but i gotta complain about sub deino stam and speed

[alpine plover]

Its the last dino they should change a lot to

[warm shuttle]

Its a 40+ foot crocodile that weighted multiple tons with a biteforce nearly that of TYRANNOSAURUS deino should be extremely powerful but equally as hard to grow to adult

[latent lotus]

carno first one for sure

[alpine plover]

Haha yea

[latent lotus]

thats kinda how it is

[warm shuttle]

Feels like if they temper deino it will end up either completely broken or down right just terrible, like stego in broken and terrible like pachy

[latent lotus]

ikd if itll be gone by them but stego and migration system are like peanut and butter

[alpine plover]

I think Dienos are very cool dinos that need patience to actualy play
I love em but i dont need buffs
Im a dieno main so

[latent lotus]

can u really make it useless when it can drown stuff

[alpine plover]

Lol dienos are in blink to being Unoficialized

[latent lotus]

yeah but like people dont play deino as it is meant to and we can only blame the devs

[latent lotus]

pretty sure they said it wouldnt cause so so tied to water

[alpine plover]

Yup, i love drowning ppl, and helping some younger ppl cuz like you took 3 hour to grow a dieno and boom canni killed you

But i think they are just vibin'

Alligators and other croc like animals irl just vibe half the time

[latent lotus]

sometimes u just gotta

[alpine plover]

Hah

[latent lotus]

YES PLEASE

[alpine plover]

Yup

[latent lotus]

MAP SUCKS

[faint quail]

fr its so annoying

[alpine plover]

Nah maps ok

[latent lotus]

not at all

[faint quail]

not if i can get stuck on every rock 🙄

[alpine plover]

( no i didnt get stuk 100 times )

[warm shuttle]

I had a fully grown stego die because i got stuck in a hole in a cliff

[alpine plover]

LOL

[latent lotus]

canions with cover places to get stuck and hard to navigate

[alpine plover]

Yea

[latent lotus]

like at least give us a suicide button XD

[alpine plover]

Kinda sucks sometimes

Broooo suicide button would be AMAZEING

[faint quail]

the point is to not have to restart tho

[latent lotus]

yeah

[alpine plover]

Yea

Maybe some kind of tp to a location or someting

Little points on the map that dont glitch

[latent lotus]

tp to the next spawn if u stand still for the next 60 secounds

[alpine plover]

With a button tough

[latent lotus]

yeah of course

[alpine plover]

Lol yea

Alr anyway imma go sleep, european enjoyer here. Bye everyone i guess

Been nice chatting

[dusky surge]

how the hell do people think stego is OP and deino is perfectly balanced

Are people just gaslighting themselves at this point lol

[meager oriole]

They’re just bad players or have carni bias, honestly

Or players who have to learn not everything should be 1v1able

Like just because you’re an Omni doesn’t mean you should be able to reliably 1v1 everything

Stego is the absolute enemy of those players

[dusky surge]

No, because they need to buff stego to deal with rex, which would make it even more hated in officials

So it's getting moved to unofficials

[meager oriole]

I still love the reactions to “Stego is getting buffed when Rex comes” and it’s pure agony from people who just die the moment they kill a Stego

(They run into their tail without baiting)

Gets one shot, complains about how Stego is unkillable

Sees me and another player manage to do well against Stego as Cerato, gets overly confident and dies, complains again

This just happened yesterday 🧀

[dusky surge]

yea, reminder, troodon, omni, deino, cera and stego all can handle a stego

[meager oriole]

Carno sort of can, I say sort of

Tenonto as well defo

[dusky surge]

oh yea, teno too

[meager oriole]

3 Tenontos will at the very least mess up a bad Stego

[dusky surge]

carno is debatable

[meager oriole]

There is defo bad, decent and good Stegos despite Stego being pretty simple

[meager oriole]

It really is an ehhhhh situation

[vital basalt]

Yeah exactly people complain about Stego and want it nerfed but it's an apex nerfing it would only make it more useless against other Apexes, and even then as Stego is now it's possible to kill with 'most' other dinos

Like Troodon do AMAZINGLY against them thanks to the venom mechanic

[unkempt sequoia]

nah the tro9odon odnt do that goud

u gootat plya the hyp;p[olyshphodon

[dusky surge]

what the hell are you saying

[alpine plover]

LOL

[vital basalt]

I just assumed it was a meme and ignored it

[pseudo spruce]

omng bryugh the thypsdilophondon i palyt that shi all thje time homie, but yu can slep on the trotin shi go herd bruh ong!

[dusky surge]

stego should ABSOLUTELY one-shot another full adult

the concept of dryo tanking a stego swing is hysterical

it can't even swing half of that, and its stam regen is abysmal

[pseudo spruce]

stego is chill

Naw

yeah sure dont attack em

its like 5 deinos next to each other, what ya gonna do

yeah if they are good enough players

but stego aint that hard to kill

idk maybe your jus tbad

[dusky surge]

it's like 5 rexes next to each other

[pseudo spruce]

cool same

[dusky surge]

so cleary it's not that strong if you can 1v1 them

[pseudo spruce]

why you attacking 5 stegos next to eachother then

if you can 1v1 one then you should have a very good grasp on how strong they actually are so why would you even think killing 5 stegos should be easy

idk dude i've punished plenty of silly stegos

I mean their not even invincible in packs

You just work on the smaller ones first

Idk stegos pre chill at the moment

Carno shouldnt be hunting stego on the regular neither should cera

Utah and troodon are pretty easy to fight stego with

[cosmic pelican]

So nerf stego to the point that it requires a group to even have a chance at survival? This is just insane, stegos cant defent each other well in groups

[pseudo spruce]

I mean stego is easy to play, so is cera when your in a group

also some people must find it difficult cause half the stegos I run into are clumsy and miss half their attacks

[latent lotus]

i mean they could aways not make rex that absurd be we both know deep inside that aint happenin, its the isle

[pseudo spruce]

I just drain all their stam then have a ball

They cant mindlessly spam they run out of stam

[dusky surge]

rex is going to be absurd, that's literally how they've adverrtised it

[latent lotus]

no its nerf to the point wheres its killable

[cosmic pelican]

Stego can only swing about 20 times before running out of stam

[pseudo spruce]

bruh I swear have u played FG stego? I see your new

[dusky surge]

it is VERY killable

[latent lotus]

but u only need 10

[cosmic pelican]

So dont nerf it?
Its already killable

[dusky surge]

quite literally killable by deinos, ceras, omnis, troodons, tenos, other stegos

[latent lotus]

talkin about curent roster rn

[pseudo spruce]

lol

[dusky surge]

current roster rn, lots of animals can kill it

[latent lotus]

it is currently unkilable

[cosmic pelican]

Then bait its attacks

[pseudo spruce]

Stego isnt that hard

Its so easy to bait

Once again skill issue ( I dont like doing skill issue but yall just sound bad)

It took me a while to learn how to kill a stego

[cosmic pelican]

Also if we are talking about deino vs stego 2 deinos can just tank the hits and be fine

[pseudo spruce]

Hmm?

I think your just bad mate

Stego is really not hard

Just attack it in the right situation

Your saying stego is to strong

mate

[dusky surge]

thats objectively untrue

stego is one of the easiest animals to just bait and attack

[cosmic pelican]

Also omni and troodon can facepounce a stego, it 100% guarantees their safety while damaging the stego

[dusky surge]

it sucks SO badly against packs of literally anything

[pseudo spruce]

sucho is right baiting stegos is very easy

XCL how long have you been playing evrima

[latent lotus]

yeah but like this discusing variates so much from person to pserson rn, like i havent seen a steg ever die u might cause we play diferent things

[pseudo spruce]

How long have you been playing?

[cosmic pelican]

If we nerf stego deino needs to be nerfed as well

[pseudo spruce]

You realise games take time to learn

Have you played FG stego?

You sound pretty bad and that leaf looks pretty new

Also have you played FG stego

[cosmic pelican]

Also what you are describing stego as is basically a worse deino. Deino is more broken IN EVERY WAY

[pseudo spruce]

you said you have been playing evrima for 2 months

[latent lotus]

should deino be able to kill a stego? i feel like it should be able to if the steg didnt move away, like u cant just trade with a deino

[dusky surge]

stego is also getting buffed for unofficials

[cosmic pelican]

2 deinos already can

[pseudo spruce]

Yep

Honestly just wait till its gone then play

You seem to not know how to kill one

[latent lotus]

yeah 2 but how about a 1v1

[cosmic pelican]

If deino could win a 1v1 stego would be useless. Stego is the only thing keeping deino in the water

[pseudo spruce]

Ima stay out of the deino vs stego stuff cus I have never been in that situation

But stego still ez

LOL

Now your going for deinos throat are ya

[dusky surge]

deino is OP lol

[pseudo spruce]

Come on matey lets hear it

[dusky surge]

the only reason stego needs to exist is because deino exists

[cosmic pelican]

Deino is op,thats true :p

[pseudo spruce]

lol

[latent lotus]

no like im saying it would loose in a trade which it currently doesnt the steg can aways move away. do agree that steg is the only thing keeping deino in water but once we have more strong land dinos the wont anyways. at that point that ill ask if it should win in a 1v1

[latent lotus]

is it tho?

like the hp or the drown ability

[pseudo spruce]

Im guessing drowing

I can see that

[cosmic pelican]

If deino can kill a stego in a 1v1 that means stego is fodder, in no word should deino be able to kill a stego 1v1 reliably

[pseudo spruce]

Stegos pretty balanced

ok

[latent lotus]

but like.. why. whats so absurd bout it. stego wont be unviable when u can just move

but also why should deino kill a steg i have no idea doesnt really matter which one wins when no one dies. if any of them get below 80% they just run

[dusky surge]

the highest biteforce in the game, the highest bleed res in the game, the highest HP in the game, the fastest swimspeed in the game, highest oxygen retention in the game, largest diet in the game, can eat bones, can eat rot, can cannibalise, effective 4k damage lunge, immune to vomiting, only animal in the game with water sense, best stealth tools in the game

[cosmic pelican]

*Easiest growth of any apex in isle history
*A completely uncontested AI food source that can sustain even an adult
*Practically invisible in the water, it can avoid all engagements it doesnt want
*Can 1 shot anything under 4 tons

[pseudo spruce]

yeah that sounds pretty over charged

Devs seem to like deino

[latent lotus]

yeah like people keep saying its unbalanced but like the biggest current carnivore is carno which realy shouldnt kill a steg

[cosmic pelican]

But then that means deino is more than op
Remember update 3 land deino?

[pseudo spruce]

lOL

Stego is pretty balanced

Also why resort to insults not relating to the game? Are you angry?

[latent lotus]

the o2 its so it can wait and to me thats alright. like even if it had way less hp they just stay in water

[pseudo spruce]

I',m not attacking someones person.

[latent lotus]

nope i started playing on up6

[cosmic pelican]

Even if stego was op, whuch it isnt. You can just walk the other direction

[pseudo spruce]

thats relating to the game

Game skill

Okay, I'm not going to continue this.

[latent lotus]

kinda very true ngl. pretty easy to be a deino. growing one is a matter of patient and not skill

[cosmic pelican]

So basically to sum it up deino could 1v1 a stego and win reliably, so deinos could go on land without any risk and took over everything

[pseudo spruce]

Fr, once you get FG its a breeze. A very slow boring breeze

[latent lotus]

ngl no solo deino can kill a steg

[pseudo spruce]

I have 1 FG deino on a server, max I play is like 30 minutes I get so bored on it

[cosmic pelican]

GMV gaming would like to have a word

[pseudo spruce]

Aint no way someone pulled it off

[cosmic pelican]

He can solo stegos as deino

[latent lotus]

also its amazing how people play deinos as a food stealer rather then deino should be played

[pseudo spruce]

I gotta see this ima search it up

[latent lotus]

whos that

[cosmic pelican]

Searvh him on youtube

[latent lotus]

oh k ill look it up

[pseudo spruce]

Im watching 1 deino vs stego pack rn

[latent lotus]

but like u cant just use someone from the internet as like- all deino players

[cosmic pelican]

Ik,most ddino players have the brain capacity of a pea

But this is an example of deinos full potential

[pseudo spruce]

Im 1 minute in and this guy is cracked

[cosmic pelican]

Which most players dont utilise

[latent lotus]

for the most part stg vs deino is just trading which stego wins. no deino is semi competent enough to go around the steg

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah this guys a real good deino player

[cosmic pelican]

Most of the videos are in update 6 tho

So pre nerf deino

[pseudo spruce]

Ah

Hs still going crazy

[latent lotus]

i mean doesnt really matter that it has potential if the players have room temp iq. and i wrote temp cause idk how to spell tempreture so i might apply

[cosmic pelican]

But if he doesnt hse lunge he could still do the same thing in 6.5

[cosmic pelican]

That is true,but the game shouldnt be balanced around noob gameplay

[pseudo spruce]

^

Dont want to bring them up again but...

[latent lotus]

damn u got me there

[cosmic pelican]

;p

[pseudo spruce]

You should watch the DMV video

[latent lotus]

also steg vs deino is like 2 dogs barking eachother with a gate between then, except the gate is open and neighter have the balls to atack

[cosmic pelican]

Deinos kit is incomplete as well as far as i know
So it may be getting more mechanics when the big boys roll out

[pseudo spruce]

Steg vs deino is always going to be one of those fights where if one party doesnt want to die then they dont have to, there is always an escape route

[cosmic pelican]

Which is how it should be, the mere presence of a stego should be enough to keep deino in the water

[pseudo spruce]

A long time ago I mentioned adding a struggle mechanic to deino, this struggle mechanic would also expand on the lunge, allow Deinos to grab onto Legs/head

I can't remember what else I had in mind at the time but that was the basic premise

[latent lotus]

so if u got 4tons ur safe or do u need 4.1?

[pseudo spruce]

and different body parts would produce different levels of stamina drain / damage

[cosmic pelican]

No tug of war
1 deino could hold a stego down while the other bites it to death

We dont want deino to hunt big game

[pseudo spruce]

Nice, I didn't think about that

A lot of my ideas come from solo gameplay

[cosmic pelican]

Your problem is fixed with Gatrway

[pseudo spruce]

yep

[plucky aspen]

the onyl way i see a tug of war senario working, is if the dino being tugged has the option to either fight the tug (lets say as just a crude example, the timing mechanic from something like Dead by daylight... and it would have to be on all dinos over 1T with a weight based multiplier to whoever weighs more) or to fight the dino. this way a teno for example (which would normally just be screwed) has a chanced to escape still, but if theres a 2nd deino they will probably just die still. but something like a stego, can still swing on the one grabbing them (making their skill check null and void) and a 2nd deino can try to get face bites. chances are the stego wont die unless they keep trying to fight the 2nd deino after, more than likely, killing the first (the deino would also need a skill check, and an option to cancel the lunge)

[pseudo spruce]

I was just thinking about the stego being able to swing while in a grapple, that would stop a team of deinos from having 1 person lunge, then another just sit and bite over and over

But it would also drain an absurd amount of stam

If specific appendage were able to be targeted, you could have it if you lunge a stegos leg the swings are less powerful, as the stego doesn't have its proper footing to launch a full power attack

[cosmic pelican]

Yes that could work, but it would be hard to animate and code, would probably suffer from the same bugs as pounce does right now.
Also it would force deino into group play to hunt effectively.
My proposal would be to add water clarity so prey still has a chance to escape and deino can get its meals

[plucky aspen]

yeah i meant to add that aswell. is it would take more stam than normal to swing (easily 2x the amount) and all the while, you'd be slowly dragged towards the water. so if you didnt kill the deino quick enough... and may you can even implement a damage reduction to the stego that was lunged. but idk.. in popular areas with more than 2 deinos i could see that being an issue

[pseudo spruce]

Water clarity, possibly while also adding more natural foliage coverage

[plucky aspen]

i think that would be a much more simple solution for sure. its just figuring out what is balanced, without over doing it. tahts where the difficulty lays

[cosmic pelican]

Or some sort of sound/ movement que

[pseudo spruce]

Mm

Like it becomes a reaction speed game

[cosmic pelican]

Like foliage rustling when a deino is under water

[plucky aspen]

hearing deinos underwater at close range used to give that type of ability, if you heard the sound you could just vanish. but thats gone now

[pseudo spruce]

I think the water clarity is the viable option

[cosmic pelican]

Sound should only play if the ddino is moving fast

[pseudo spruce]

grappling is much cooler but it would 100% be a nightmare to create

[cosmic pelican]

So players that stalked their prey should still be rewarded

[pseudo spruce]

Yes

[cosmic pelican]

Doesnt Gateway have water clarity?

[pseudo spruce]

If the deino has eaten in the past 5 minutes or so, a slight blood mist could appear if they stay in one spot?

[cosmic pelican]

Or at least a lil bit of it?

[pseudo spruce]

I'm not entirely sure

[plucky aspen]

i know nothing about gateway, trying to stay mostly in the dark (hard as a mod lol) so i couldnt tell ya

[dusky surge]

in some water sources, yes

[cosmic pelican]

🥳

[pseudo spruce]

I am very excited for gateway

[dusky surge]

I'm excited in general for U7

[pseudo spruce]

If it solves the issues that I'm assuming it will like overcrowding and deadspots then I will be a happy man

[pseudo spruce]

DILOOOOO

[dusky surge]

honestly i care the least about dilo somehow

[pseudo spruce]

Hahaha

[dusky surge]

i prefer the concept of herrera or a new herbivore that people actually goddamn play

[pseudo spruce]

Fair enough, gateway is WAY cooler then anything else

Oh yeah herrera is very cool

[dusky surge]

I hope Hypsi becomes arboreal too

[pseudo spruce]

People were trash talking herera yesterday made me shed a tear

[dusky surge]

IDC if it sucks ass, if it can climb and mess around in trees that's good enough for me

[pseudo spruce]

For real man, for as long as I've played evrima I have wanted to climb the trees, ever since the hypsi tree that you could jump into

[cosmic pelican]

Hope dibble is actually viable on release lol

[pseudo spruce]

I don't know anything about diab, has anything about gameplay shown up?

[cosmic pelican]

All the herbies have been done dirty this update

[pseudo spruce]

Like what its attacks might be and anything

[pseudo spruce]

For real RIP pachy, I havent played it yet but I have heard grim stories

[cosmic pelican]

Just this

[dusky surge]

i mean... dryo got nothing but buffs

[pseudo spruce]

Lets go

[dusky surge]

pachy did deserve a GOOD amount of stun buffs

[cosmic pelican]

I like the dryo changes, not like ppl play it any more tho

[pseudo spruce]

For sure

How bad actually is pachy now, anyone played it here?

[cosmic pelican]

Its still decent in groups

[pseudo spruce]

I need to try dryo still

[cosmic pelican]

Sure you cant 1v1 everything but thats fine

It badly needs a trot speed buffs tho

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah that makes sense, pachy should need a friend to be able to confidently take on a predator

[cosmic pelican]

Or more running stam

[pseudo spruce]

I wouldn't mind carno getting a faster trot haha

I lose my mind having to cross the map with carno sooo boring

[cosmic pelican]

Trot speeds should be buffed in general

Tenos trot feels so nice

[pseudo spruce]

Yeah tenos the only one that I really enjoy

[dusky surge]

Pachy could do with trot speed and stam buffs

[pseudo spruce]

Tenos trot feels like butter

[dusky surge]

Cera needs to be less oppressive and teno will be fine

[pseudo spruce]

aight ima go to bed goodnight

[bold smelt]

I think carno should run faster but he should take a few more steps to stop

[cosmic pelican]

It would still be garbage though

Carno needs a new map and a whole rework

[dusky surge]

carno needs stam, not speed

it already has plenty enough of speed

[latent lotus]

yeah it has lots of stam but anything is opprising against a teno, is just that teno sucks

[dusky surge]

Teno doesn't really suck

(I personally have no idea why tailslam was nerfed)

[latent lotus]

its just awful how it cant kick while being bit, makes no sence and it rewards players for not taking a safe distance. combine that with vomit lock

[dusky surge]

im more than certain it can kick while being bit

i have yet to see any evidence that says it can't

[keen plover]

No reason for it not to be the strongest in combat outside of deino and stego. The only fear I have is the vomit locking cause you know for a fact it’s going to be slower than cera

[dusky surge]

@rigid tulip stego is getting new attacks to deal with rex

[rigid tulip]

Cool

[true ginkgo]

I don’t think just buffing it’s damage is a good idea. As that still just leaves it as a mechanicless stat blob

[dusky surge]

agreed

a 1250 damage jab is more than enough

what it needs now is more attacks

maybe a weight buff

[true ginkgo]

Stego is simultaneously op for the evrima roster, while lacking anything interesting or any mechanics as a playable

[dusky surge]

it's actually not even that OP

[rigid tulip]

Also i was cooking an idea a couple of minutes ago and I was wondering if it would be stupid: what if pachy’s stun worked like cera’s puke mechanic where each hit would inflict an increasing area on one of your stat bars in the bottom left: but on stamina. When it req he’s max you get a stun, but it wouldnt reduce your stamina in any way, just fill up the bar. Im completely open to the possibility this idea is extremely stupid: what yall think?

[dusky surge]

all things considered, it's kinda really bad for its size and time investment

[rigid tulip]

And the hits required to fill the stam bar depends on your weight ratio to pachy

[dusky surge]

its attacks are super choreographed and easy to play around, it's horrible against groups, has really bad stam and stam regen, zero defensive stats like bleed resist, genuinely not that tanky for its size, has a super vulnerable head, it can't use its best attack unless it's moving slowly, it sucks complete ass at swimming, does SHOCKINGLY bad against pouncing animals for something that's supposed to be good at swiping things off its sides

all it has going for it is a high damage value on its attack, but everything else about it is kinda dog doodoo

like objectively speaking stego is exceptionally underpowered given the fact that the current roster are actually really much better at killing it than they should be

[knotty harbor]

Wait are they removing stego?

[dusky surge]

moving it to unofficials

along with trike and rex

[meager oriole]

It's not even overpowered

At most Stego is overtuned, which pre-Update 3.5 tells us it's not

Stego can get 2v1'd by Cerato, most of the time requiring just 3

Cerato can avoid Stego, Stego can't avoid Cerato

[dusky surge]

@weary glen vomitlocking is unavoidable for slower creatures, like stego, which is why it needs to go. Honestly, I'd rather they remove the vomitlock, make it that the stam decay diet does something besides stam decay because that whole diet is entirely OP, and that's it, keep everything else

Oh, and buff carno stam so it can actually leave when a cera runs at it

[meager oriole]

Stego is killable, and alongside it being avoidable by every playable in the game makes it not overpowered or overtuned

pre-Update 3.5 Stego was genuinely bad, I only played it because it's my favorite dinosaur back then

[dusky surge]

Pre-U3.5 stego was pathetic lol

[meager oriole]

It would basically get 1v1'd by Carno lol

[dusky surge]

Melted by any pack of omnis that saw it

[meager oriole]

4000 hp(while still having the 2x head modifier instead of 1.5x), can take damage from thagomizer, slower turn, slower jab attacks, and less damage

[knotty harbor]

Honestly don't think it should be removed now all the stego players will switch to next best killer deino

[meager oriole]

It at one point also took 10% stamina to use one of its jabs

[dusky surge]

yea that's basically what's going to happen

[meager oriole]

So Stego could jab only 10 times before its defenseless, every other time was like 5%

Now it's like 3% I think

Stego got buffed so much to actually be decent lol

[dusky surge]

I hope this is at least going to come true

[nocturne lake]

deinosuchus for 6 hours straight, and then your deinosuchus gets ambushed by another deino or a pair of deinos, and there's nothing you can do.

[weary glen]

vomitlocking a stego is a task only for the brave, stego can easily ruin a pack of ceratos if he is not baited. Let alone he can have just a sub stego with him and be unkillable. Cause if cerato can be in packs, so can stego...

[meager oriole]

Stego in groups is far worse off than Cerato in groups

[dusky surge]

Your entire survival plan against an animal not even a quarter of your sie should not be to pack up lol

Also, stunlocks aren't fun

[meager oriole]

A task for the brave??? I've done it with 1-2 others only with minimal caution to even known good Stego players

[dusky surge]

That's why pachy got its stun removed, same with deino, same with many other creatures

[meager oriole]

I guess you mean again I am once again proven correct

Anyone who thinks Stego is unkillable is solo or bad at the game

[dusky surge]

Omni's pounce recovery got removed to lower the amount of stuns

Yet cerato gets a freepass with the worst stunlock ever seen in the game's history

[weary glen]

9/10 stego players are totally noobs, most of the players pick stego so they have a chance at the game

[meager oriole]

I can tell

[nocturne lake]

It would be better if cannibalism were eradicated not for Carnotaurus, but for Deinosuchus.I am very sad when a cannibal attacks me violently, because no matter how hard I try to repel the attack, I always lose because I was hit.

[meager oriole]

Deinosuchus needs as much difficulty as possible to make it extinct

Deino shouldn't have been added into the game in the first place

It's crocodilian kit makes it overpowered by design

[nocturne lake]

And stegosaurus are too strong for all the dynos in the service at the moment.

[dusky surge]

Gators are literally crocodilians, so they are naturally cannibalistic (which unfortuantly makes them very easy to grow and sustain)

[meager oriole]

Stego will be too strong for most playables

As will Trike

[dusky surge]

Until a single apex rocks up

And then stego gets melted because its current design is still massively unfinished and kinda bad

[meager oriole]

You actually need to approach Stego and Trike with caution, it's a change of pace that you shouldn't expect to see go away

[dusky surge]

Or, better yet, don't approach these massive herbivores at all, since they can't chase you

[meager oriole]

Don't expect to be able to 1v1 everything as anything anymore like legacy days

Stego and Trike are avoidable and slow and do not control the engagements they are thrown into, they are going to be beasts to try taking down regardless if you're an Omni or Allo

[nocturne lake]

Yes, but deinosuchus is a close relative of the alligator, and alligators are not cannibals

[dusky surge]

they very much are

[meager oriole]

Yes they are?

[dusky surge]

I literally played as a teno against a mixpacking stego and 4 gallis who wanted me dead for no reason. The stego was literally such a non-issue, I genuinely struggle to see how people have a problem with this animal. I could quite literally trot away and easily seperate from the stego, wait for the gallis to run in, and kick their brains in. I was more scared of their overconfident sub-adult galli than I was their 6 ton massive OP herbivore

[nocturne lake]

But they are different, even by habitat

[meager oriole]

Should be 8 tons with its full kit, max Stego size would be awesome to see

Stego might be made unviable for a reason that isn't Rex

but Trike

[dusky surge]

but gators are cannibals, and deino most certainly would've been one if it was anything like modern day crocidilians

[golden coral]

Which is a strange choice considering there's so many better playables if you want a chance at the game, with much less time and effort investement compared to the potential you get in return

[knotty harbor]

I don't think stego is unkillable but I think it's a lie to say it's bad. It one shots ceratos and smaller and it's only competition in game dmg wise is the largest croc in history I think the reality is putting deino in instead of something like allo or even sucho was a mistake. Having said that stego players should learn to play together not solo and only suicidal ceratos will mess with them.

[nocturne lake]

Stegosaurs kill everyone and everything and are quite aggressive.They often gather in mega herds and even deinosuchus have no chance

[meager oriole]

It's not bad, it USED to be bad

and Stego doesn't one shot Cera

[dusky surge]

true lol, i dont play stego because it's literally way too tough to grow for such a lackluster reward

[dusky surge]

It does, if it lands a headshot

[meager oriole]

That's headshot

[knotty harbor]

It one shots with headshots

[meager oriole]

Headshots are irrelevant when it comes to 1x damage especially as most of the time it will be a body or tail hit

It deals 1250 damage, which is just 50 away from actually one shotting Cera

[dusky surge]

IDK about you but I feel I got ripped off out of my 6 hours when I grow a stego and it literally has to be cautious of an animal unironically 100x smaller than it, along with a ton of other animals stego should absolutely not be phased by

[knotty harbor]

I find it pretty easy to headshot stuff with stego, everything goes for your head so just plan for it

[golden coral]

Yeah no, stego is terribly designed for herding, even teno is better at it. Also, it's a stego, you're telling me trike and rex should also pair up to handle cerato? :p And it's not so much that stego is bad, it's more that most others are better if we look at what you get from them compared to investment and all that. At the very least when they work as they should (since I'm not counting bugs for obvious reasons).

[meager oriole]

This is why I say Trike will be better

Not statistically, but gameplay wise

Trike will be probably better both solo and in groups as well

[dusky surge]

Can't wait for the big mighty rex to be added, only to get vomitlocked by 2 bored ceras who decided they wanted to

[knotty harbor]

I never said that but herd animals should group up

[meager oriole]

Fighting against decent players makes this nearly impossible

Not to mention especially if it's against Cerato

[dusky surge]

stego is a terrible herd animal and should not be forced to group up

if you want a herd animal at that size, that'd be para

[golden coral]

Troodons killing stegos in not even halfsized packs apparently xD

[meager oriole]

Stego is slightly bigger than Para

[golden coral]

But stego is not a herd animal, that's the thing. Even trike would be more of a herd animal.

[meager oriole]

Paras max is 7, Stegos max is over 8

[dusky surge]

Honestly, wouldn't be surprised if para ended up bigger in The Isle

[golden coral]

Even teno is better at it, and it's still not a herding animal because of how it works

[knotty harbor]

That's a ridiculous take and single handedly tells me why y'all have a hard time y'all play solo stego

[golden coral]

Can you make it work, sure, but is it good at it, no.

[dusky surge]

Have you seen stegos in herds lol, their best move is to not attack because they kill literally everything they try to protect

[meager oriole]

Me and Eden have been Stego mains since before evrima stego released lol

We have experiences that tell us this first hand

[golden coral]

Stego should be solo more often than not, it's a large, potential apex sized and powered playable. Just like we don't see trikes or rexes in groups, or gigas or even shants. Do you really want trikes and shants to herd up? Do you imagine rex and spino coming in packs too to counter that?

[dusky surge]

I am so not scared of a stego in a herd becasue I know I can literally pounce and the stego will either take the shot and kill the guy I'm attacking, or just stand there like a sack of wet flour and do nothing

[meager oriole]

The thing is, Stego does too much AOE to be good in herds

It will probably be more detrimental to have them in a herd in some cases

[golden coral]

Stego is terrible at herding, purely due to how its kit works. Stego is one of the last critters that should herd up, even kentro and teno would do better though I imagine kentro would also be struggling, depending on how its attacks work and all.

[dusky surge]

Stego looks cool in herds, that's about as good as its herding gets mechanically

[meager oriole]

Trike can also use tactics in groups, Stegos basically have to spread out

[dusky surge]

Like herds of stegos are majestic and then that's it

Trikes, paras, shants, basically most of the roster are better in herds

[golden coral]

Yeah, trying to defend in herds is doable. The point is more so that its mechanics and attacks do not let themselves to communal defense. Unlike trikes that can stand side by side, or diablo for a better example of numbers.

[meager oriole]

I was just joking with @toxic dome about Trike using Phalanx tactics in groups lol

[knotty harbor]

If you space out your fine and they would have to commit to killing one of you otherwise they will never drain your stam or do enough bleed or dmg to kill u

[golden coral]

Diablos would do far better in herding defense compared to teno.

[golden coral]

And if you space out, you don't have the herd defense, that's... kind of the thing

[meager oriole]

Stego cannot use its numbers in a way most other dinosaurs can

[dusky surge]

So the best way to play as a herd is to get as far away from each other as possible in an actual dangerous situation because otherwise you kill your own young

Incredible herders

[golden coral]

Stegos do better fighting individually, which also takes away from the point of herding together for defense

[dusky surge]

Very excited for diablos

[toxic dome]

https://tenor.com/view/pop-out-robert-e-fuller-peek-look-outside-emerge-gif-22501450

[golden coral]

Teno is similar, not as bad, but even so, you don't really want another teno right next to you unless you're solid partners and know exactly how the other is moving and all

[knotty harbor]

Your really good at not reading what others say and spouting nonsense lol

[meager oriole]

Someone arguing how Stego isn't a bad herder

Stegos kit makes it too dangerous to be good in herds

[golden coral]

Meanwhile, most other playables can defend way better in groups, since they can stand side by side and attack "freely"

[dusky surge]

I am reading exactly what you say and spouting responses, IDK what you're seeing lol

[golden coral]

Stego is not a herding animal, out of all the playables, it's the worst one to herd with, because its entire kit makes it risk collateral damage more than anything else. That's just a fact. Can you somehow make it work, sure, is it reasonable, no. Should a stego, an apex level, more or less, playable have to herd up to defend against something smaller than teno, that isn't meant to be a good hunter? No, absolutely not, no more than a trike or rex should.

[knotty harbor]

Literally get just far enough away you don't hit each other and put the one they go after between u and you can kill them as they pass you to get to them, it's not that complicated you just need your average IQ to understand

[golden coral]

This is not a difficult concept to grasp, at all. Just look at the playable, look at how the attacks work, compare to how it would look and work with something else, and you'll see. Then look at the size and power of the playables involved, and you'll see as well.

[golden coral]

So you'd just attack from the outside, why would you ever go "between" the stegos?

You can't defend the guy next to you very well at all, because of how the attacks you have works

[meager oriole]

It is an actual tactic to try to make Stegos friendly fire kill their herdmates and one that can absolutely work

It has worked for me in the past

[golden coral]

Yep, you want them to stand next to each other, and then bait attacks

[meager oriole]

The Stego CANNOT attack if you're on top of a herdmate or else it will friendly fire

[golden coral]

And if they do spread out, then theyre on their own, which was the entire point, that it doesnt do well in herds

[dusky surge]

Dude. It's so easy I literally purposely run into stego herds as omnis or troos because they are incapable of helping each other without accidentally putting their kids into the ground

[golden coral]

So you struggle to defend juvie stegos, because of this

[knotty harbor]

Because ceratos players are dumb and legit use that tactic to make you hit each other but if your too far to hit them it doesn't matter

[golden coral]

If you're too far to hit, they'll just attack from the other side?

And also, at that point, you're not herding, you're just two stegos near each other but not interacting

Which still means stego sucks at communal defense, and can't defend a juvie very well at all

[knotty harbor]

Which means they have to switch targets and you can heal bleed and Regain stam

[golden coral]

You'd have to stand so far away that even if you both swung towards each other, you'd not be hitting the other stego, aside from on the tail tip, and at that point, you're not defending each other.

[dusky surge]

anyway yea necessitating any herbivore of that size (or any animal at all) to group up to survive is generally bad design

[meager oriole]

We're not saying Stego can't be in groups btw, we're just saying it's not a good animal to be with in groups

[dusky surge]

Not a single other animal 100% relies on groups to survive

[knotty harbor]

Also I never said a number but I'd say groups of 3

[golden coral]

You can do that on your own, better, if you just use terrain xD

Even two stegos do better on their own than in a group more often than not

[meager oriole]

Stego should be fine on its own but should also have social gameplay of its own, even though its kit makes it horrid in combat

[golden coral]

Youre far better off using terrain than another stego

[meager oriole]

Every playable should have some form of social aspect they can live with besides Deino

[golden coral]

Pretty much. You can make it work, it's doable, but it's still one of the worst animals for herding/working together

And that's just how it is

[meager oriole]

Especially herbivores

It's easier to survive solo as carnivore than herbivore, not for any other reason but because you usually will have the speed to survive fine

[golden coral]

Stegos should not come in more than pairs anwyay, far too large and powerful for groups

Same as any other apex or apex level animal

[meager oriole]

Carnivores are the ones who control the engagements and choose what to attack and what not to

Herbivores cannot and they are balanced this way

[knotty harbor]

Hard disagree specially if they raise the server caps

[meager oriole]

This is irrelevant

If the game can allow megaherds to exist, they messed up somewhere

No artificial rules, make it so they're actually unsustainable(or have them all be malnourished and die)

[knotty harbor]

I didn't say mega here

[golden coral]

Why? You want to see rex and trike in packs/herds too?

[meager oriole]

Megaherds are the only problems here

[knotty harbor]

Herd

[golden coral]

Cause I'm not sure that'd be so fun

[meager oriole]

Herds themselves are fine

[golden coral]

But I really don't see why you'd want stego, or anky, to come in more than pairs

Pairs are all that should be needed anyway

[meager oriole]

It's when megaherds exist it becomes a problem

[knotty harbor]

Trikes yes rex's max group of 2

[golden coral]

And that should be to defend vs other apexes really

[meager oriole]

Group limits don't matter in anything else but mirror matches

[golden coral]

Then the same should apply to stego

Even more to stego, because trike do better in herds

[knotty harbor]

I'm speaking of groups of 4 for stuff like trikes

[meager oriole]

I don't see how this is a problem

[golden coral]

So if you want to see proper herd gameplay, ceratopsids would be the choice

But seeing four trikes, well, nothing would hunt them ,at all

[meager oriole]

Nothing should?

[golden coral]

Not even a pair of rexes

[meager oriole]

You don't just expect to hunt a herd of anything, Eden

[dusky surge]

Omni has a group size of 10, yet it doesn't need more than 1 omni to survive competently

[golden coral]

Which is why I don't think any apex sized animal should come in more than pairs

[meager oriole]

Actually trying to wolf larp a bison herd

[golden coral]

Since do we really want apex groups running around uncontested entirely?

[meager oriole]

Except they wont

If a herd can manage to sustain itself it should be allowed to exist, the hard part comes to carnivores especially cannibals

Cannibalism makes it easier to megapack

[golden coral]

Then it'd be more so that you shold not be able to sustain a herd?

[meager oriole]

Not what I'm saying

[knotty harbor]

Apex's will hunt each other and honestly rex players should be going after stuff that falls behind or is solo they wouldn't attack a herd of trikes unless they weren't grown

[meager oriole]

I'm saying you should have to think on how to attack a herd and wait, be an actual predator and dont expect to just walk up to stuff

I did this ALREADY on cerato myself with a pack of my own

[dusky surge]

I actually legit hope to God none of the big three apex carnis are cannibals

[knotty harbor]

Facts

[meager oriole]

we were waiting for some gallis to get food as they all were on a plateau in the middle of the open

[dusky surge]

Blasphemous as it may seem, I don't think rex should be a cannibal

[meager oriole]

Too many eyes everywhere, but we did manage to jump and kill 3 Gallis

[knotty harbor]

I hope all the apex's are cannibals to keep their pops in check

[meager oriole]

We had to think on how to approach the Gallis, not just walk up to them and expect them to sit down for us and die

[dusky surge]

Realism aside, the concept of 50 rexes on a server being able to sustain themselves on the complete overabundance of rexes kinda sucks imho. 50 rexes should just be entirely malnourished, die, and respawn as something not cannibalistic

[dusky surge]

Cannibalism ironically increases pops greatly

[knotty harbor]

That makes no sense

[meager oriole]

Either a snackrifice or someone dying in combat will be enough to help sustain a megapack

This is not the case when it comes to non-cannibals

It's easier to sustain a Cerato megapack than it is a Carno megapack

Cerato being a cannibal helps it IMMENSELY

[knotty harbor]

How about a mechanic with carnivores where the loss of a pack member debuffs their dmg forcing them to leave?

[dusky surge]

I know, it really doesn't, but it's a weird situation. Let's say you're on a server and 50% of that server are rexes. With cannibalism, you can sustain 50 rexes on a server by eating the other rexes. If the rexes aren't cannibals, they cannot eat the other rexes for nutrition, meaning they will more than likely become malnourished as they cannot eat anything as most of the other players are not viable food sources, leading these rexes to become malnourished, grow slower, become weaker and more.

[meager oriole]

cannibalism doesnt encourage kos mirror matching like you think it does

it only sort of would if they were the ONLY nutrient

[dusky surge]

Basically, with cannibal rex, more rexes = more food, meaning more reason to overpopulate as rex. With non-cannibal rex, more rexes = less food, meaning more reason to kill other rexes in food competition, while also less encouragement to play rex in a server full of rexes, due to the limited food supply

[slim dragon]

That's not any better than herbivores suffering stress from being near carnivores

Losing a packmate is a debuff

[meager oriole]

*for everything but cannibals

they get food eitherway

[knotty harbor]

I didn't say anything about nerfing Herbie's I'm confused

[meager oriole]

They were saying it's not a good idea

[slim dragon]

It's a comparison
Debuffing carnivores for losing a packmember is the same level of bs as herbivores suffering debuffs from being near a carnivore (which is being suggested rather often)

Cannibalism should be regarded as a way to give opportunistic predators (like cera and deino would be if they were proprely balanced) more leniency because they cannot pass up on a potential prey, rather than population culling

[dusky surge]

Cera being cannibalistic actually does work for it, not for population control, but rather allowing it to be the bastard corpse bully scavenger it was meant to be

[meager oriole]

see if you think of it as also "well make it so you cant cannibalize group members" then players wont join groups

[knotty harbor]

The ones suggesting the Herbie debuff are dumb. And carnis specifically to make them afraid to continue fighting should take a debuff at the loss of a pack member at that point the hunt is fubar

[meager oriole]

Humans are smart, we think about how overcome obstacles, hence why group limits is a dumb idea

[dusky surge]

I have no qualms with cera cannibalism, honestly, it meshes well with its niche

[slim dragon]

Then carnis will hunt without grouping up

It just makes it less convenient

[meager oriole]

Players will still be able to coordinate in vc or local

the only time this would become relevant is in a mirror match

A cerato megapack will just split groups and basically function as a single group instead of going "aw shucks we are at group limit, we better part ways guys"

[small iris]

I believe Ceras should have a nerf to their bacterial function. Or the whole puking mechanism needs reworking. A single bite should not equal that the other dino pukes instantly

[knotty harbor]

That will limit what they can hunt and if they need trike for diet they need a pack unless a apex

[small iris]

To resolve grouping issues add buffs for being alone instead.

[slim dragon]

It won't do anything.
They will just click the ungroup button and hunt as usual, the only difference being they can't see each other's nametag

[meager oriole]

there is literally no benefit to grouping other than nametags

[knotty harbor]

I agree needs nerf but I think a cool down on puking of around 15secs would work so your not stun locked

[meager oriole]

Cerato charged bite in general needs nerfs

It needs a stam cost, and not a cheap one either like 3% but say 7%

[small iris]

To be honest, I believe that bacteria should be a status increase sort of like it refills the ceras, it should also "fill" a bar until you actually are at risk of puking.

[meager oriole]

Bacteria should scale with weight

[small iris]

That way you can attack and then disengage more easily. Right now its "Get bitten get lost" situation against ceras

[meager oriole]

You shouldn't be making a Brachi puke in 5 bites the same way you make an Omni puke in 5 bites

just an omni dies in 5 bites lol yes I know was making an example

[knotty harbor]

From what I thought the puke mechanic was to help track prey so I think it should just have a cool down and become completely unspammable

[meager oriole]

I'd also propose that if a playable cant vomit, Cerato shouldn't give it bacteria

[knotty harbor]

Would also solve the issue of ceratos killing carnos and stegos

[meager oriole]

Because charged bite on other Ceratos and Deinos just wastes bile currently

[knotty harbor]

Facts

[meager oriole]

Also should make it so you can only get bacteria from rotting corpses and bones

[knotty harbor]

Y'all gonna hate me but deino should have bile too, as a Floridian I cannot tolerate the lack of bacteria on the deino bite lol

[meager oriole]

even if you currently get more from them now, getting them from fresh meat is just an easy way to make Cerato always have lots of it

[meager oriole]

Deino doesn't need it

its kit is overpowered enough

[small iris]

I noticed that from playing cera. They get bacteria from anything? While the "introduction" video stated to eat rotting food?

[knotty harbor]

Well issue is the bacteria in rl accurs naturally despite what they eat, we even have bacteria in our mouths that help digest food

[slim dragon]

Every animal has infectious bites, particularly humans. Cera's bite is different in that it host so many microbes it actually makes you sick instead of giving infections.

[hollow canyon]

@weary glen I'd rather buff Carno's combat capabilities and swap its charge to Dryo-sized charges rather than increase its stamina with relation to other animals.

Same goes for Cerato but in reverse - nerf its combat capabilities instead of its stam.

Also globally buff the runtimes of everything by x2 to x3

[meager oriole]

@rocky rover With changes being made to Deino already I can’t say much on what should change about Deino, but I think removing land lunge is fine

Deino preferably shouldn’t have been added into the game because crocodilian kits are by design overpowered.

[knotty harbor]

I think the timing of it being added was bad they should have added Alberto or something to contend with stego instead of deino and added deino later

[warm shuttle]

Allo should counter stego imo it just feels wrong for alberto to counter it instead its ironic well known predator

[meager oriole]

Ironic?

[meager oriole]

It's not Deino in having no competition, it's that the playable inherently lacks counterplay.

You go to water and pray that a Deino isn't there or else you die, that's not fun to come across.

Over half of the full roster will be "lunge-able"

If you add counterplay to Deino as in say having it be so there's warning signs, it becomes a noob trap.

So the solution is just make it so difficult to play Deinosuchus that they're still considered a threat when drinking water, but so incredibly rare that it won't ruin gameplay for most people.

[meager oriole]

Allo shouldn't be the counter to Stego and neither should Alberto, there being "counters" is a dumb design philosophy to make in a game like this.

Also, both are significantly smaller than Stego which would hopefully get its maximum size.

3+ Allos or Albertos to reliably hunt a Stego maybe...

If you want to add a Stego hunter in the game, add Saurophaganax or a very large Torvosaurus.

Allo isn't hunting a Stego though, you'd be crazy to think otherwise.

[cosmic pelican]

@warm shuttle Proximity based debuffs sound good on paper, but are extremely abusable in practice.

"Sucsessfully defended your nest from a large carnivore? Good job! Enjoy some nice debuffs in return!"

[meager oriole]

*and if you make it so herbivores can drag bodies, I can instantly see this being used against Ceratos.

[cosmic pelican]

Herbies dragging bodies
Imagine a stego trying to drag anything lol

[meager oriole]

I mean Ceratopsians maybe

[cosmic pelican]

The only scenario where that could be useful is if youre nesting tbh
Also Im sure the community would freak out, thats body denying on steroids

[cosmic pelican]

Also every carnivore can kill a stego, except carno

Pretty reliably too

[thin mantle]

Honestly I’m not even sure what on paper sounds good about them tbh

They solve basically nothing at all

[cosmic pelican]

Making stego fodder

[thin mantle]

What a great idea :D

[dusky surge]

Punishing herbis for existing

[golden coral]

I mean, ceratos are currently hunting stegos better than most things. Sure, it's via vomit lock, but it still counts!

[thin mantle]

We need to stop the oppression of grass on this island, it’s time to STOP

[ancient canopy]

Yes it should be, allos Hunted stegos in real life if you didnt know , and allosaurus was the same size as a stego, but stego was bigger ( 5t and allo 2t) so i think allo should and probably will be hunting stegos

Im not saying that a one allo could solo a stego , that would be dumb , but a 2 or 3 , stego should get scared

[olive zinc]

I believe him. He was there millions of years ago.

[cosmic pelican]

Our stego in game is likely going to be around 8 tons with a damage output to stand up to a rex. From what we seen from allo it has a grapple attack that attacks the flank of the prey, allo will have no chance landing that attack on stego thanks to stegos excellent area and flank defense attacks. So allo likely wont be hunting stego that much unless they can somehow bite it to death.

Allo could definetly hunt current stego tho, I was just reffering to the buffed version we will soon get.

[old hull]

we know nothing about allo besides the very basic idea of what it could do , so talking about it hunts anything is completely pointless

especially since the devs change their minds about what a dino can or cant do when they cant get it to work , deino and stego lunge struggle mechanic was an idea that never made it in , same with upwards deino lunge , with deino endless growth , troodons mimick etc etc .

and no how it was on legacy is also not worth mentioning since every dino brought over that version has changed completely except for their general looks

[dusky surge]

Troodon mimic is still happening

[old hull]

so they say , but they said the same about croc upward lunge too and that seems to have been forgotten

[dusky surge]

Endless Deino growth was thrown out because it was bad for balance, same with deino struggle

[old hull]

i know , but they still claimed they would do them for quite a while until just silently stopped talking about it

almost thought they would do the same thing with migration since they were hyping it up so much and then just kinda stopped talking about it

[dusky surge]

Migration was always confirmed to be with Gateway

[ancient canopy]

WTF is the isle doing with this game , buff stego? If they want a strong Apex add trike or something

[old hull]

of course but this is the isle , many things that have been confirmed were changed anyway

not saying its unexpected , its an indie game and the devs have quite the history of gigantic ambitions that they very often cant live up to

[dusky surge]

They're adding trike and rex, that's why they're buffing stego, to compete with those animals (on unofficials)

[ancient canopy]

Bruh , why add apexes now?

[dusky surge]

Because they want to, and they'll only be on unofficials

Stego will be moved to unofficials with them

[ancient canopy]

Bruh x3

[old hull]

id guess a mixture of generating stupid amounts of hype cuz as we all know lil timmy loves his big dino , and to also just see how they will work in evrima

[ancient canopy]

Damn im just gonna Play thw isle after like 5 Years , maybe we get a 2 or 3 dinos in that time

[old hull]

the sad part is that amount of time is actually pretty realistic too lol

its been over 3 years and we have had 6 major updates

[dusky surge]

we literally just got 4 dinos in one update lol

and we're getting like, 3 new dinos next update (not including rex, who we know less about)

[old hull]

honestly i hope rex does come , it will attract all the lil timmies away from officials so maybe i might actually be able to play solo and not get steamrolled by megapacks

well , il still be steamrolled by them just maybe slightly less lol

if only we had some kind of govermening system so the game could actually be played properly

[dusky surge]

what?

what is a governing system lol

[old hull]

what don and the other devs brainstormed about a long time ago , a way for the game to police itself basically so no admins are needed

[mental roost]

Seize the means of production and player slots

[old hull]

lol not quite

[dusky surge]

President Troodon

[old hull]

basically something to stop mix/megapacking and all that crap thats essentially soft cheating

[mental roost]

I'd say closer to Commissar Troodon but fair enough

[old hull]

cuz what you see on officials rn is not what this game is selling , atm its just a dino sandbox

[dusky surge]

Yea but how would that HAPPEN without being easily abused?

[mental roost]

Wasn't that the "affinity" system???

Which I don't think has been talked about recently at all, and I'm not sure if it's even being planned still

[old hull]

how should i know , the devs are the ones who want to do it , i just hope they succeed

[dusky surge]

I have yet to see a mixpack "fix" that doesn't cause more issues than it solves

[old hull]

evrima has no admins or rules for just that reason , they dont want to rely on them they want the game to take care of itself

i dont know enough coding to know what they can or cant do so i couldnt tell you , but surely if they talked about such a system they must have some idea

but evrima has done alot of things with this genre no other game managed so if anyone can pull it off , id hope its them

[ancient canopy]

And that's the only thing i like in the isle

[dusky surge]

Coding isn't the issue, it's design

[mental roost]

Nuclear bomb/meteor drop that spawns when a group of animals in too large of a number(slot based, each animal having its own slot value, to account for mix packing, which adds an increase to that value), thus deleting the mega pack from existence via Majora's Mask Moon

[old hull]

its funny but something kinda like that was actually an idea floating around a while ago

except instead of a nuke it would a hypo ai or something like that

[dusky surge]

People have suggested stuff like a pile of AI rexes spawning on any animal that chooses to coexist for a few seconds, so not too far off what people actually want

[old hull]

there is a few things you can try , like weaponizing the megapack scent so if you linger around other species for too long you start starving faster , deal less damage maybe take more damage etc etc

[dusky surge]

Which is extremely abusable and would be used a LOT to troll

If anything, I think the best way to do it is have the megapack scent appear without needing to smell at all

[old hull]

thats why its an idea , an idea which they can test and improve upon

[mental roost]

I just imagine like 12 T. Rexes spawning inside a Stego mega-mix pack and forming a starfish of awkward clunky biting eachother and the megapack

And then the game deeming the Rex's to be megapacking and spawning more because they forgot to do a player check

[old hull]

seeing megapacks coming still wont fix it , they are still there and still causing problems for a server

if you dont punish them for doing it , they wont stop

[cosmic pelican]

Without the buffs current stego is absolute fodder to rex
If they didnt buff it it would become unviable

[old hull]

why they didnt just make rex and trike more in line with stegos level of power is beyond me

cant wait for that repeat of legacy where if your an apex you just ignore non apexes cuz they cant touch you anyway

[dusky surge]

because stego is honestly not impressive for an apex level animal

its most impressive feat is killing something that sucks at fighting anything above 4 tons

[true ginkgo]

Stego is both op for the current roster, and probrably going to end up fodder to rex.

[dusky surge]

not even mentioning how vulnerable stego is to tenos, troodons, ceras and omnis

[true ginkgo]

buff stego to survive rex and it becomes even more op for the current roster.

nerf stego to suit the ebrima roster and it becomes even more fodder for rex

[old hull]

we dont have any apex in the game unless you count the gator so how can you say its not impressive

[dusky surge]

stego isn't even that OP for the current roster. It has enough threats to prove that

[dusky surge]

Both the gator and the stego are considered the same tier, below apex

[old hull]

it 2 shots basically anything it touches , and 2-3 shots itself with headshots , id say thats pretty on par with apexes we had before

[true ginkgo]

yeah omnis wreck it this update

and if it's low food ceratos demolish it too

[dusky surge]

and troodons, and ceras, and tenos

[true ginkgo]

wait troodons can kill something?

[dusky surge]

because apexes of the past can attack much faster, move much faster, take more hits and more

[old hull]

when game doesnt hit with the 🖕 and kills you as your pouncing yeah it can lol

[dusky surge]

troodons are very good at killing things if they're good at the game, and if the alt-bite doesn't decide to have a planetary hitbox

[true ginkgo]

stego can't decide if it wants to be a mid tier or an apex.

[dusky surge]

it's meant to be in between

but even then. it's weak for that size

[old hull]

the tier system is an outdated idea anyway , its just your creatures tools that matter

[true ginkgo]

as it lacks any mechanics and is just a health blob, it plays like AI

[old hull]

like carno per the old tier system should be stronger then raptor , yet its designed to kill tiny things when raptor is designed to do the opposite

[true ginkgo]

size is a very imperfect way of judging power, but it's a good rule of thumb.

[dusky surge]

even then, it's pretty squishy, having zero resistances and even a special increased head hitbox damage multiplier

[true ginkgo]

"big creature beats small creature"

[old hull]

for legacy it made sence cuz that was how it worked , big always beat small

something i really hope doesnt happen again in evrima

[alpine plover]

a decently skilled player could tailride certain dinosaurs to death with eaze

[true ginkgo]

i'm fine with smaller things beating larger things in certain circumstances (omni packs beating things like para, smaller tanky things being hard to kill).

but overall, big should beat small

[dusky surge]

i mean, people want deino to kill stego on the basis that stego is smaller, which is funny. Repeat of old habits

[old hull]

so many replies which to adress first xD

[true ginkgo]

if you've spent 12 hours growing a rex, you should always be beating an animal someone put an hour into growing

[slim dragon]

mine

[old hull]

agree with 2 and 3 , 1 yeah on no alt turn servers they could but pound for pound apexes pretty much always dunked on smaller things

[true ginkgo]

like 1v1, a rex should always beat an omni. Unless the rex is afk.

if you're a big slow apex, you've put in a lot more hours growing, and you don't get to pick your fights.

while a smaller animal can just leave if it sees a situation it doesn't like

[alpine plover]

this is true but i didnt have much experience playing on alt turn servers so i only got to see and tail ride apexes and high mid tiers to death

[alpine plover]

omni killing anything bigger then a tenno should not really be a thing in my opinion

or maybe an allo at max

[true ginkgo]

i could see a pack of like 4-6 omnis hunting a para depending on how good they are

[old hull]

to a degree the big things should be pretty strong but i hope they also have by far the most difficult ones to grow and play

[alpine plover]

they would have to be excesively good

i dont think many people realize how powerfull para is

[old hull]

and not just with long growth times , legacy and even evrima proved that just is not enough

[true ginkgo]

para is larger than stego, but has less weaponry.

[slim dragon]

iirc Kissen hinted at evrima Para being quite small
Possibly under the bar of 4 tons

[true ginkgo]

oooof

[slim dragon]

(Although probably nothing is set in stone yet)

[true ginkgo]

maia clone para it is

[alpine plover]

para should quite honestly become tanky, like a miniature shant

[old hull]

yeah para sounds really damn lame

[alpine plover]

irl para would have been a monster of a herbivore to all its carnivores

[true ginkgo]

irl para is such a cool animal.

but every game and film has them as these small free snacks

JWE has velo 1v1 instikilling paras

[old hull]

yuuup

[alpine plover]

they dont treat hadrosaurs with quite the respect they deserve

[true ginkgo]

like a 6 ton para should definitely lose 1v1 to a 6 ton stego.

but the para would never even have to take that fight

[slim dragon]

herbivores in general*

[true ginkgo]

hence why it seems like 2/3s of the games population wants small tier carnis to hunt apex herbis.

[alpine plover]

hadrosaurs in specific tho becouse they cant even fight back like at all, in the general public perception hadrosaurs are runners despite the biggest non sauropod animal literally beeing shantungosaurus

[true ginkgo]

i kinda find it funny that two groups of land mammals got larger than even the largest hadrosaurs

[alpine plover]

my bad, shant was the biggest non sauropod dinosaur

[slim dragon]

Shant was that big so its long legs would allow it to run away from raptors faster (not fast enough to esacpe them obviously)

[true ginkgo]

Palaeoloxodon and Paraceratherium go brrr

[meager oriole]

Stego was not 5 tons

Stego was over 8 tons

Or moreso

[hollow canyon]

I like Allosaurus much more than Stegosaurus but you are very, very wrong

we have not a single adult Stegosaurus killed by any predators

not even 1, just a round 0

doesn't mean it hasn't happened but we literally have no idea whether Allosaurs were capable of bring such a mountain of meat with a danger-tail to its knees

[meager oriole]

Isle Stego also is a behemoth in of itself

[hollow canyon]

mehhh, not that much

[meager oriole]

Those thagomizers are enormous even for Stego

[hollow canyon]

it's slimmer than irl Stego

I think Stego should struggle far more against the big apex predators than against smalls

it has always been its thing

murderizing everything smaller than itself

[meager oriole]

Stego is a balance disaster

[hollow canyon]

and struggling against the big things

[hollow canyon]

honestly at this point what isn't?

[meager oriole]

We can’t seem to find a good point for Stego

Stego is an apex and is slower than Trike(apparently), but its kit would absolutely demolish smalls and mids?

[hollow canyon]

yea

[meager oriole]

And is also being made to take on Rex(and if it can do this, likely the rest of the apexes)

[hollow canyon]

it covers its flanks very well, has a large AoE of attacks

but it has a weak head that even Deino can use to win or almost win this fight 1v1 if it's good

[knotty harbor]

Fact a stego can easily handle deino I still think it will do significant dmg to a rex

[meager oriole]

But there is sort of… downsides to Stego unlike Trike

[mystic cosmos]

Everything else can run faster than stego, and you can see or hear them from a mile away

[hollow canyon]

most Deinos are bad, I can easily handle Deino with a Deino and win like every time

it doesn't mean much

[meager oriole]

Stego can’t exactly take advantage of its numbers as much as everything else can, and it has a critical weakness(its head)

[hollow canyon]

Stego is for sure a difficult fight but it is winnable sometimes

[mystic cosmos]

I believe it takes 9 pounces from a troodon to take a stego down right now.

[knotty harbor]

It's not about the deino being good at that point the stego needs to be afk or already half dead. No deino will beat stego 1v1 currently

[hollow canyon]

not true

I have killed Stegos

[knotty harbor]

It's absolutely true

[hollow canyon]

1v1 at full health

[meager oriole]

Deino cannot really 1v1 Stego anymore due to changes in 6.5

[hollow canyon]

it's difficult, most of the time you lose

[knotty harbor]

Why you lying lol

[meager oriole]

But before this Deino could absolutely 1v1 Stego

[mystic cosmos]

As a stego, full grown deinos have come very close to killing me. One more bite from some of them would've gotten me

[hollow canyon]

do you need me to post a video where people kill Stegos 1v1 with Deino?

[mystic cosmos]

Not in 1v1s

But just crossing rivers

[hollow canyon]

enlighten me what 6.5 does about this fight?

[knotty harbor]

Sure make sure it's from this update and from beginning to end

[slim dragon]

What has changed that makes deino unable to 1v1 stego in 6.5 ?

[meager oriole]

It removes the lunge stun on Stego

[hollow canyon]

you never want to lunge Stego

[meager oriole]

Which in every 1v1 video everyone used the lunge to stun both

[hollow canyon]

it's a deat sentence for Deino if it's stupid enough to do that

[hollow canyon]

no good Deino would use that dumpstefire move vs Stego

you literally kill yourself by using it

[meager oriole]

@quasi grove ?

[hollow canyon]

that's a major skill issue

[golden coral]

Far as I know, you use the stun in pairs, where one of you stun the stego, and the other then bites its face off

Using it on your own, seems like it was a bad idea even in the prior patch

Unless you spammed the stun or something, using the damage from it to kill?

[meager oriole]

It seemed to depend where the Stego was facing when you used it

[knotty harbor]

Anyway in a straight up brawl unless the stego is face tanking like a moron deino stands no chance and if stego decides it can just dip and the croc can either give up or drain all its Stam chasing it then get merked

[hollow canyon]

I mean if you're dumb enough to run after it - yea you will die

it can't exactly follow you either

if it runs after you into the water and starts swimming it gets merked too

the whole fight relies on you staying on its head

if you can't do it - you will die

if you can - you will kill it

[meager oriole]

and you can stay on its head during the fight with alt attacks

Or you encounter a good Stego and get fast jabbed to death

[golden coral]

The fight is doable 1v1, more or less. But having a pair is better and with a pair, if the stego stays to fight, it will most likely die if the deinos can aim well

[hollow canyon]

at the end of the day if either one of them is smart enough to disengage in time it lives because the other side has no way of following it

[knotty harbor]

How's a croc that's slower then molasses and drains Stam like a 600 pound track runner post to stay on its head when it can just spin in place and keep wacking, your living in delusion

[meager oriole]

Stego will absolutely lose a 1v2

[hollow canyon]

alt bite and get good

there are people who do this, I've done it

[golden coral]

Alt bite moves you, and you can't both turn and attack as stego, so if it jabs, it cant hide the head, and if it turns to hide the head, it cant attack

[hollow canyon]

not much, but I've done it a few times

Deino will typically lose this fight unless it is significantly better than Stego it's facing

[knotty harbor]

Still waiting for that proof

[hollow canyon]

I mean, how do you want the fight to be taking plae?

with Stego swimming, with Stego and Deino on land?

or with Stego on land and Deino in water

[golden coral]

Pretty sure there's vids out there of people soloing stegos

[knotty harbor]

I swear to God you show me a face tanking stego video I might die laughing