balance-feedback-discussion

[plush panther]

💀

[vagrant coyote]

You still did kinda write an entire post in balance feedback about how stego should be removed from the game bc it killed your carno

💀

[plush panther]

ah u change the discussion now

[stark knoll]

Quit being hostile with each other

[plush panther]

nvm im dumb, i got ur point

[stark knoll]

Be civil or drop the conversation

[plush panther]

was about, he keep send piky

[vagrant coyote]

This is civil, I'm Irish, I can be way nastier

[plush panther]

ego stuff u know

[vagrant coyote]

Also, for the record, I'm a raptor main too, I jus play stego for like an hour at a time when I wanna disrespect crocs

[plush panther]

jk

[vagrant coyote]

Alr

[plush panther]

mb on that

let's end that discussion ok ^^

[vagrant coyote]

Alr

[plush panther]

Sorry if i was rude or anything

[vagrant coyote]

Na, your fine I deserved it

[plush panther]

Have a great day SaltCubes446

[vagrant coyote]

At this point I'm hostile towards anything beneficial for carno because I despise them on a molecular level

So don't worry about it 😅

[plush panther]

I agree that carno oneshoted utah is dumb asf

couldnt agree more

[vagrant coyote]

Oh, it's so bad

[plush panther]

Like deino can grab almost everything, and stego oneshot you at ur first mistake

[vagrant coyote]

Mhm

[plush panther]

even as i mean utah, i need friend utah to got small chance to take down 1 stego, if we all do 0 mistake and the stego is alone, deino i wont talk since u just CAN'T kill him

[vagrant coyote]

I was so mad one time, because i was hunting a fresh spawn stego as a full grown raptor, and when I pounced him he was able to tail swipe me off his back

Died in 3 hits

:/

[vagrant coyote]

Exactlyy

[plush panther]

3 hits ? I bet on the head he could've 2 shot u

maybe oneshot aha

[vagrant coyote]

Prob, yea

[distant torrent]

it’s possible. I’ve killed a 70% deino before as a lone omni but the guy didn’t know how to hide in the water

[vagrant coyote]

Anyway, I've got homework to do

Raptors for liiifeee

[plush panther]

yeah if they are kind of "braindead" i would say, not to be rude or anything

[plush panther]

+1
Gotta go aswell, byebye fr

[vagrant coyote]

Bye gamer

[plush panther]

Bye gamer

[keen plover]

What an amicable ending

[frail bobcat]

I was hoping for a 1 vs 1 without kicking

[keen plover]

😰

[thin mantle]

It still makes me laugh whenever someone complains that stego one taps Omni

As if it’s entire system of defense doesn’t entirely crumble if it’s targets can survive even a single hit from it

[slim dragon]

Omni is also a bad pick for complaining about stego's damage

Even if they're wrong, I can understand carno players wanting for the tail hit to deal less damage
They are playing a large animal afterall

But omni is such a chipmunk compared to stego

[thin mantle]

Mhm

Tbf I think tailhits SHOULD deal even further reduced damage

But at the same time, an omni shouldn't be surviving a hit from stego...anywhere

[slim dragon]

Depends if you consider tailhits should be counted as "misses" or not

I don't think hitting something's tail, unless there ere tail fractures, should be something to go for
Even against omnis, a stego should be aiming for the body to be rewarded

[hollow canyon]

Tailhits deal as much as they should be

[thin mantle]

Ehh

You can't aim for anything as a stego when the target is that small

[hollow canyon]

also - Omni does NOT get oneshot by Stego if it gets hit on the tail

if you get oneshot by a Stego you did not get hit on the tail

[thin mantle]

Oh then we're fine then :p

[fleet torrent]

stego doesnt needs to be removed it needs a rework

[bright oasis]

What do you suggest needs to happen with stego

[fleet torrent]

As once i posted in general feedback,
I think the stego should have its attack animation slower in keeping with how heavy that animal is. In my opinion, it attacks very quickly, its damage, hp and statistics in general seem correct to me, but I think that the speed at which it manages to make its attack hit, seems disproportionate (also attacking in-water when going against deinos too) to how heavy and slow that animal is. I would say slow down his attack animation a bit more instead of nerfing him and completely ruining the dinosaur.

I think that should be implemented, at least for now. With this ecosystem.

[dusky surge]

dude, slower attacks would make it really, really bad

it would be trapped in the animation for longer and struggle to even land blows

[distant torrent]

@magic flame I remember seeing someone say that deino was supposed to have some kind of tug o’ war mechanic instead of a yoink and run mechanic, but it wasn’t kept because of complications

that would be pretty neat to have for larger prey that’s grabbed. I’d imagine something like an omni wouldn’t have a tug o’ war and would just get snatched up and carried quite easily

if the deino is pretty large of course

[plush panther]

nah stego are perfect rn

i've just killed 2 adults stego with MY adult stego, they stand no chance now MWHAHAHAHAHAAH

[dusky surge]

lmao dude

a fictional version of a dinosaur from a videogame lives rent free in your mind

[distant torrent]

we’re witnessing character development

the start of a villain arc

[river nexus]

I agree that the animation can be changed a bit to be more neat-looking, but it's not a large problem in terms of balance

[river nexus]

That's a bit personal of you to say

I suggest we stay formal

[dusky surge]

im not wrong

[river nexus]

Directing that joke towards em wasn't necessary

[river nexus]

how do you do it

[dusky surge]

i agree, it wasnt

i still found it funny

this man has been speaking about nothing but stego for days now

it literally lives rent free in his mind

[river nexus]

@mint rain You're right, bucking should get reworked in some sense

[river nexus]

Unnecessary personal joke that doesn't benefit the discussion

[dusky surge]

yep

sure is

however, i dont feel obliged to follow your strict code of ethics, and if i want to make a joke, i will

[river nexus]

@orchid prairie I understand your concern oogway, but considering that your omni is way faster than a 20minute deino - it was kind of your fault that you didn't notice it coming

[river nexus]

Making a personal joke/insulting someone is never necessary

[dusky surge]

wasnt an insult

it was an observation i found funny

[river nexus]

Didn't rule it as an insult

[dusky surge]

you being offended on their behalf really isn't necessary either

yet here we are

[river nexus]

Just sayin it wasn't necessary, and it doesn't positively contribute to the discussion

I bet if I said that in general discussion, i'd get called condescending again lol

[dusky surge]

cool, you lecturing me on it is also not contributing to the discussion.

now, you can drop this silly little unnecessary rant and go on with feedback discussion, or we can be at this for hours over a joke that no one cares about but you, choice is yours.

[river nexus]

@cinder mortar I agree, and personally I find it curious that we only see dimorphism in hypsi and ptera - nothing else

[river nexus]

I'm not lecturing you, I'm just contributing by kindly recommending that you don't bring condescending personal jokes or insults to a discussion that was rather formal prior to it

[dusky surge]

i see we have selected option B "go on for hours about a joke no one cares about"

not what i would've picked personally

[river nexus]

@brave breach You're very right
Crocs also have exceptionally good nightvision compared to other creatures, so it's weird that deino has the nightvision it currently has

Also considering its ability, it makes sense for it to be able to see from afar

[dusky surge]

no animal has a unique NV atm, it'll be buffed more than likely in 6.5, where each animal gets a unique NV range

[river nexus]

@sturdy echo
Buffing dryo's speed won't do much, rather increasing its biteforce would encourage people to play it more

When remembering old dryo, their population was neat

[dusky surge]

dont increase its bite force please god

[river nexus]

Compared to now

[dusky surge]

absolutely not the buff it needs

[river nexus]

It would increase its population

Dryo populations were larger while it had the biteforce it had, compared to now

[dusky surge]

so would buffs that don't counteract the entire niche of the animal

[dusky surge]

that was because everythng about dryo in U3 was absurdly OP

it was the strongest herbivore

[river nexus]

Buffing dryo's speed would label it uncatchable by omnis
the whole niche of dryo is "chase me"
No one would chase that thing if it's faster than them

You don't see a full grown deino chasing a dryo on land, cause' the dryo is faster

[dusky surge]

buffing dryo's bite force would encourage it to fight more, which isn't its niche either

[river nexus]

I never said nothing about anything not being its niche

Buffing dryo's biteforce would increase its population, which is what we want from dryo

[dusky surge]

no

what we want from dryo is a solidified niche that matches its current design

[golden coral]

There's no reason to think buffing its biteforce would do much for it. Even when it had amazing "op" biteforce, it wasnt a popular animal.

[dusky surge]

not making it into something it isnt

[dusky surge]

this too

[golden coral]

Dryo just needs to be, not as slow as it is but still slower than omni, and have far more dodges

[river nexus]

It wasn't popular but it was several times more popular than it is atm

[dusky surge]

even back when dryo was very powerful, it wasnt played much because it literally has no core niche to make it engaging

give dryo a core personality and niche

[river nexus]

Dryo was very much popular compared to now

[dusky surge]

rather than buffing small stats that fail to set it apart from other animals

[golden coral]

It was, but considering how few people realized how op it was, I doubt bite force had much to do with it.

[river nexus]

Dryos are unicorns now

[river nexus]

Biteforce had to do everything with it, because right after it was nerfed - dryo pop came down

[dusky surge]

no

[golden coral]

Considering very few, if any, played dryo using that biteforce, no I don't think it mattered much

[dusky surge]

because dryo also had health, speed and agility. Damage wasn't the only thing dropped

[river nexus]

Compare U3 dryo populations with U4 dryo populations, what do you get?

[river nexus]

Damage was the largest popularity with dryo

They would attack small deinos viciously

[golden coral]

Not that it matters anyway, buffing dryo biteforce is probably not the way to go, at least not without trying to adjust the speed, and more importantly, the dodge numbers first

[dusky surge]

a powerful animal with no niche that a small handful played, to an average animal with no niche that barely anyone played

raptors, carnos and deinos still far outpopulated dryos, even tenos and stegos beat dryos in population back then

[river nexus]

small handful > barely anyone
With a larger dryo population, the game would feel more alive

The more variation in the roster, the more alive

[dusky surge]

so give it a niche

give it something actually unique

[river nexus]

Stegos beat dryo in population now, way more than they did back then

[dusky surge]

increasing the damage does nothing to actually make it unique

[river nexus]

Increasing its damage would largen its playerbase, which is a great temporary solution in the meantime
before we get burrows and a complete dryo

[dusky surge]

or

just give it really good NV so it can interact more with the new animal within its size range, troodon

which gives it not only something to compete with, but a unique niche no other herbi has, nocturnalism

[river nexus]

Dryo large night vision = more dryo players? How does this make sense

[dusky surge]

Dryo large bite force = more dryo players? How does this make sense

[golden coral]

But it also sends the wrong message, no? That if you're not pvp "viable", you're a bad animal and not worth playing?

[river nexus]

Because that's literally been proven with how dryo populations were when they had biteforce lol

[dusky surge]

no

[river nexus]

It's undeniable what I just said, so

[golden coral]

Because it gives you one other playable that lets you be out and about at night and do stuff?

[river nexus]

Dryo pop dropped as soon as damage dropped

[dusky surge]

the fact you think its JUST bite force that made U3 dryo so good is proof you have no idea what you're talking about

[river nexus]

Dryos were constantly attacking things, would have been way less effective without that biteforce they had

[golden coral]

Dryos still do... xD

[dusky surge]

no no everything needs to fight, even when their core design is not fighting

[golden coral]

They do that even if it does nothing ^^

[river nexus]

Dryo attacking things is dryos killing themselves
Today

[river nexus]

Currently, yeah. The game atm is a fighting sim, so things should be able to damage other things
There's not much else to do rn. Until the game is more varied, that's how it should be

[dusky surge]

i like how in your mind, a dryo that goes out of its way to troll and kill random things > a dryo with a unique niche that seperates it from other herbivores, gives it an engaging matchup with another carnivore and helps it survive more threats that lurk in the day

[river nexus]

Of course, that's in everyone's mind, because it is a proven fact that dryo populations were larger when it had more damage and was more able to kill things

RN it's more so a "chase me" dinosaur, which no one plays. soooo

[dusky surge]

so never experiment

[golden coral]

Nocturnal, 45.5 or so in speed, 25 dodges, and there you go. Now we have a dryo that can do more than most herbis at night, has enough speed to feel fast but is still noticably slower than omni (46.8, right?), and can use its dodge to have fun and stay safe, but can still run out if it overdoes it. Could even adjust the stam run time and stam regen, so if a dryo does run out of steam, it's out unless it sits down properly.

[dusky surge]

we have no clue if a nocturnal dryo will be more engaging, but rather than test, let's just buff its damage because it was strong before

[river nexus]

"Chase me" dryo, almost no one playing it

"Kill everything" dryo, people were playing it

@dusky surge can you deny this?
no, you can't. because this is factual

[golden coral]

You could make the argument that any playable is more played the more it can kill

[dusky surge]

experimentation and new things are clearly not worth engaging with

just do the same thing

[river nexus]

in the current state the game is, yeah

[golden coral]

So, we should just buff hypsi and ptera and omni and everything else

[river nexus]

but not in every scenario

[golden coral]

Yes but the current state isn't the goal, we don't adjust for that, because it only causes more issues

[river nexus]

no, hypsi has a cause

omni also has a cause

[golden coral]

And yet you see even less hypsis

And apparently no one is omni anymore either :p

[river nexus]

less hypsies compared to what?

[river nexus]

Smaller population of omnis than before, but not that little
Same with hypsies, they're not that rare

[golden coral]

Fewer hypsis than dryos

[river nexus]

What

[golden coral]

At least I've met more dryos than hypsis

[river nexus]

Where did you get that from

Perhaps because you play na and i play eu, but it's the opposite here

[golden coral]

Purely based on experience, but there's never been more hypsis than dryos during my playtime at least

No, I play EU only

Yet to meet or even hear a hypsi for a good while now

[river nexus]

On EU3, EU1, there are consistently more hypsies than dryos
Those are the servers I play I don't know about the others

[river nexus]

Do you go to north west

[golden coral]

No, it would be the only place I avoid because it's normally nothing but a bloodbath between deinos, stegos, and whatever else decides to join in. And I don't find that to be very fun, so I just don't bother go up there. Also not much diet food for stegos, so it's just pointless :p

[orchid prairie]

But it’s the fact that it can still sprint at the exact same speed regardless and still have enough stam to drown you which is the problem with smaller deino rn

[distant torrent]

honestly it was the funniest thing I’ve read all day after witnessing the dude’s descent from nerf stego, remove stego, to stego hate

[river nexus]

speak of the devil.. 2 hypsies in a 16 pop server, eu3

[river nexus]

@golden coral

[river nexus]

it sprints at the same speed as a full grown omni..?

[orchid prairie]

Juvi deino I should’ve been more clear about that my bad I just woke up lol

Juvi deino can sprint at the same speed before and after it’s grabbed an omni

[golden coral]

Look at that, you're lucky!

[river nexus]

No

[river nexus]

it's an indication that what i say in this message is factual

2 hypsies in a 16pop server

i bet that never happens with dryos, because dryos are way more meaningless as a playable
atm

[distant torrent]

dryo populations will grow when hitboxes are fixed and burrowing is added

[dusky surge]

very amusing

(or if its given a semblance of a niche, like nocturnalism)

[distant torrent]

I actually really like the idea of dryo being nocturnal

hide in a burrow at day, come out to feed and drink at night

[dusky surge]

hell, it doesnt even need a burrow

just throw it in nocturnals like troodon with U6.5

[distant torrent]

true if it has great nv

[dusky surge]

i guarantee you it will be more engaging

[slim dragon]

Dryo burrowing still good imo

Depends on how burrows are handled tho

Dryo with legacy burrow would be boring

[golden coral]

No, it's just your experience, same way that I've met dryos. And still lucky, because you happened to be there. We could both have missed a lot of dryos or hypsis just by not being right where they are anyway :p

[distant torrent]

I hope getting into a burrow doesn’t have a 5+ second animation

[dusky surge]

i once had a server where 25 of the 100 players were dryos (all of them were produced from me and my friends meganest complex)

[slim dragon]

I'm thinking that maybe dryo could dig tunnels, not rooms. Just with an entrance and an exit, so when it's being chased it has an alternate route to go

[golden coral]

Don't really like the burrow for dryo, but I guess it's fine if they can just live in them, but I'd rather keep that for smaller stuff and just let dryo be bouncy

[distant torrent]

I absolutely love this

I wonder if they could make digging tunnels more interactive rather than just pressing a single button and have a tunnel pop in

[slim dragon]

They probably could
But it all depends on the amount of work they're willing to put in it

[distant torrent]

yea

dryo would be very addicting to play if it had lots of digging freedom. I’d imagine a lot of elaborate tunnel designs from players could stem from it

though they may not get too elaborate because of the restarts every 6 hours

[slim dragon]

Hopefully the restarts won't stay forever

[distant torrent]

not to mention the occasional server crashing

hopefully

I also hope the hit box for burrows won’t be horrendous. Imagine running from a utah or carno and you get to your burrow, but you have to stop and reposition yourself multiple times to find that sweet spot for the game to let you in

[slim dragon]

Ideally the burrows would be accessible without interaction or loading
But that would be the hardest thing to do

[distant torrent]

yea

[river nexus]

I'm confident that there are more hypsi players than there are dryo players.

[distant torrent]

there most definitely are.

• hypsis don’t need to grow
• hypsis are allowed to be annoying by being able to blind people
• cool unique nest
• no growth time lost if you inevitably get punted to the moon by the funky carno hit box

[river nexus]

The reason the hypsi population is more dominating is because people actually have a reason to play hypsi

There is less reason to play dryo

[river nexus]

Step 1:
spawn hypsie northwest repeatidly

step 2: get bored

step 3: decide to play ptera

step 4: alright i'll just go to north west as ptera and get my diet

[distant torrent]

the most you can really do as a dryo right now is squeak and hope people have mercy on your poor unfortunate soul

[golden coral]

Alright, maybe hypsis are more popular than I've experienced then. But that still means they're fun for different reasons than biteforce, so I'd say we could try that for dryo too, at least before just upping it's attack power.

[river nexus]

The reason why hypsi doesn't need more biteforce for an increased population is because Hypsi has alot of other things to do

The reason dryo needs more biteforce for population is because it has nothing to do

[golden coral]

Yes, and I'm saying we can at least adjust dryo to do more things before upping biteforce, such as give it NV, at least make dodge useful so it can do that properly, and so on.

[river nexus]

Dryo's population when it had biteforce was way larger than it is now, with dryo's decreased biteforce

This, you can't deny

[golden coral]

No but it's not a relevant argument because everything else was also different

[river nexus]

Its biteforce was the most significant thing with the playable

It's what caused it to be able to play the way it did, so

[river nexus]

and that playstyle is what made more people play it

[golden coral]

Rather the combination, not only the biteforce. Also keep in mind stego had 4K health back then, part of why even dryos could kill it and so on. You're saying only biteforce when it was the entire balance situation that allowed for dryos to do what they did.

And arguing that we should let dryos do that, despite not fitting, just because "there's nothing else to do", isn't much of an argument, especially not when there's at least alternatives to try, and more importantly, changes that needs to be done anyway. Even if you did give dryo right now better biteforce, the dodge is still not worth it, and the speed is quite slow.

[keen plover]

Dryo would also have a much better place in the ecosystem if things didn't get very large quickly

[golden coral]

Even if you gave dryo omni biteforce right now, it would just be a worse omni anyway, slower, no pounce, less health, and so on.

[keen plover]

Omni of the same size of dryo runs a lot faster, has way more stamina, similar agility.

And it grows much quicker to get to that point

Dryo is effectively a worse Omni in the current game.

Bite changes or not

Dryo growing in half the time of something like omni, something 4x its size is another reason as to why it's not popular

[river nexus]

Mostly the biteforce, factually
lead to the large pop of dryo

because the biteforce was the main factor of its playstyle, so

[keen plover]

There's a lot wrong with Dryo & how tiny playables are dealt with in this game

[river nexus]

It'll get managed once there's a need for it

[keen plover]

Yeah it is. Dryo is getting directional attacks as well

"Umm, been working on some directional attacks. But you're not likely to see that for a bit. Their play pattern has also changed. Their dodge is different to potentially make way for something new (don't get excited cause it may not work out and no it isn't burrowing). It also consumes much less stamina when jumping currently. So they're still very slippery but now they have a greater chance of being caught if they're too careless." - Kissen

[golden coral]

But you're entirely missing the point that biteforce itself wasn't the only factor that worked for dryo at that point. So just upping biteforce right now would do little, it might look more fun, but it would still not yield the results.

[keen plover]

Even if Dryo is a perfect playable in its role, the incentive to play it should be there other than "I like it more than this creature"

[golden coral]

Considering now they get caught very easily, I don't really know why they need a greater chance :p

[keen plover]

Yeah lmao

[river nexus]

Without the biteforce, their U3 playstyle would have been different

[golden coral]

And without all of the rest, it also would have been different.

[keen plover]

The diet update made growing Dryo tedious. After update 4 launched, the playerbase truly died. Which is why Dryo should have a lot more diet plants

[river nexus]

Way less different, as all the dryo needed was biteforce in order to kill everything

[keen plover]

Let it eat whatever

[golden coral]

@keen ploverI just don't know why we can't just up the dodge amount, give it 25 dodges before running out, and maybe up the speed a little bit again, and now you're properly a slippery and bouncy dryo, which makes it more fun.

[golden coral]

Yeah, sure, let's go with that.

Also yes, put all the herbi plants on dryo diet, so it can go wherever it wants.

[frail bobcat]

that would actually make sense because dryos can be pretty useful for all kinds of herds

and having dryos in a herd does not cause harm unlike teno+pachy herds

[keen plover]

Dryo with:

• Great NV. Similar levels to Troodon & Dilo. So having them around any herbi will be a plus.

• More running stamina. Currently it's 2 minutes. Buff it to 3 - 4 min.

• The ability to gain nutrients with the vast majority of diet plants. Making growing a Dryo a non issue. Go wherever you want and you'll pretty easily get to full adult.

• Changes to dodge cost. 10% stamina rn. Maybe 5%? Dondi did say you might only have 2 dodges though and any additional dodge would be a perk?

• Burrowing.

[river nexus]

It's factual

[keen plover]

Also we know its combat will be changing with directional attacks

[golden coral]

No,you just refuse to understand that the entire balance was different. If you just gave dryo biteforce right now, it wouldnt be able to do the same things in the same way, because the rest is different as well.

[golden coral]

And at least most of those can be done right now, so little to no issue to make dryo more interesting and fun to play.

[keen plover]

Yep. Simple and enjoyable fixes to Dryo. It wouldn't even be the last things they could add to Dryo as well

There's probably other great ideas around

[river nexus]

You think dryo's playstyle would stay the same, today, if it got the biteforce it had in the past?

Along with dryo's pop

[golden coral]

Temporary increase to check it out, then down again yes, because I don't see just adding a bit of biteforce solving much. The dodge is still not worth using, you're still much slower, you'll die to omnis and carnos just as much overall. Sure you'll require slightly fewer dryos to mob an omni but that's more of a novel thing than a greater part of dryo gameplay.

Maybe you'd get a few more dryos overall, but nothing that I imagine would suddenly make the dryo pop more noticable or more relevant in the game.

[river nexus]

"Few more dryos overall"
It would be close to the same as U3. That's way more than a few, we're talking 3-5 dryos in servers commonly

It's a good change for the game's current state

[frail bobcat]

but giving dryo the changes that bird brain mentioned above would make dryo much better

[river nexus]

This is something viable in the future, but not something the devs are willing to do atm

[river nexus]

A hotfix with a damage buff, temporarily, would boost dryo pop and make the game more lively

[frail bobcat]

no, because omnis and carnos would still obliterate them, just like now

[river nexus]

they could do that in U3 too, couldn't they?

pop was still way larger?

[frail bobcat]

the balance was different back then

[golden coral]

You don't know that. And I don't think it would make that difference, due to everything else being different. That's all there is to it.

[river nexus]

Omnis obliterated dryos easily in U3 so

[river nexus]

I do know that, because we have proof from u3

[golden coral]

You think just upping biteforce is the determining factor, I think it's all of the balance, and just giving current dryo more biteforce isn't going to make that difference this time around.

No, we don't. We have an entirely different balance in u3.

[river nexus]

It'll make major difference to their pop

[keen plover]

Ok. How much of a buff would you be willing to do though?

[golden coral]

You don't know that. And since you don't know that, you can at best guess.

[keen plover]

Like if it's not anything great, people won't play it.

[frail bobcat]

and do you think that dryo would be played if you are slower than omni, have less interesting abilities than omni, are weaker than omni. for 15 seconds more seconds of runtime?

[keen plover]

And if it is great, it's busted

Like A dryo with 30n bite force isn't going to be played much

[golden coral]

Even if you gave better biteforce, the dodge cost and slower speed would still not make dryo fun.

[frail bobcat]

yes

[keen plover]

50n though? That would be swarmed to. 10 shotting a pachy

[frail bobcat]

it cant even enage in a fight with a omni because once you are losing, you cant flee

[keen plover]

But is that good balance? No

All you would see is Dryo swarms growing in 30 minutes and killing all the other small tiers

[golden coral]

Considering we know we're getting different NV, changing the cost of the dodge would be as easy as changing biteforce or similar, and you could easily just revert some of the speed nerf, I don't see why the devs wouldn't do this if they want to make dryo a bit more fun. All of it is as easy as a biteforce, but more fitting for dryo overall.

[keen plover]

36 bites to kill a Carno lmao

If it had a 50n peck

That is barely anything if you consider how easy a group would be

To feed & grow

[golden coral]

Not that you'd catch any omni or carno though. But I guess mobbing pachies would work, unless their alt just wipes you anyway.

[keen plover]

Very true. Teno would be on the menu in swarms

[golden coral]

Just what we need, another small critter murdering tenos xD

[keen plover]

lmao

Also, the mirror matchup

🤮

Like go ahead and buff the damage. All it leads to is Dryo players being scared of other Dryo players

I still like that people are looking at Dryo changes though, so 🤝

[river nexus]

Worth it 100%, with the larger dryo pop

[keen plover]

More playables to be on edge around

[river nexus]

? So?
I'd rather be less comfortable as a dryo, than have no other dryos to meet lol

Damage buff would be a great temporary fix to dryo's pop, up until we can complete dryo as a playable

[keen plover]

How much would you buff the damage

[river nexus]

U3 dmg is all it takes to boost the pop

[keen plover]

Wasn't that 75n

[river nexus]

3-5 dryos each server consistently, or more

[frail bobcat]

dude, omni is 65 n, you cant do that

[river nexus]

65n as adult?

[frail bobcat]

yes

[river nexus]

How much was omni's biteforce at U3

[frail bobcat]

I dont know

[keen plover]

100 - 120 range iirc

Somewhere in there

[river nexus]

If omni's current biteforce is 65N, 50N for dryo would do good for its pop

[distant torrent]

75n pack of 10+ dryos seeing a carno run out of stam:

[keen plover]

That's 32 pecks to kill a Teno

[river nexus]

3 dryos were enough to kill a newspawn deino back in the day lol

[river nexus]

That teno must be unbelievably bad at the game if it manages to get bitten 32 times by a dryo

[frail bobcat]

its beak looks pathetic, where is the 50 n biteforce coming from?

[river nexus]

where did the 75N come from in U3?

[frail bobcat]

you know how dryo is very agile and can just bait out attacks

[river nexus]

Also, why are you underrestimating its beak lol? Some PARROTS have 100+ biteforce

[frail bobcat]

bad balance and different damage system

[golden coral]

Terrible terrible balance.

[river nexus]

great pop in U3 though, was worth it

[golden coral]

It really wasn't no.

[keen plover]

A full herd (10 dryos) would need 3.2 bites each to drop a teno

You know how easy that would be?

[frail bobcat]

thats realistic N, we are talking about the isles N, which is completely different

[golden coral]

They'd go back to dropping stegos probably xD

[river nexus]

yeah but you talked about its beak, which was realism

[keen plover]

People won't be using Dryo to play Dryo. They'll be playing it to be Omni lite

[river nexus]

10 players working tgt deserve to off a teno

10 players, that's 40 minutes x 10

[golden coral]

Yep. Which is not a good balance choice since it sets all kinds of wrong precedents, both for balance in general and for dryo

[frail bobcat]

not as dryo

[river nexus]

40 minutes x 10

[frail bobcat]

dryo is not meant to fight

[golden coral]

... Are you seriously arguing dryos should be fighting tenos?

[river nexus]

yeah well there's nothing else to do for them atm

[golden coral]

While it's already an issue pachies do it

[river nexus]

it's good

[golden coral]

....

Okay then

[river nexus]

what, are we supposed to add rules and mechanical limitations to the game to make pachy not able to fight teno specifically or something?

it's good that pachies and tenos are able to kill each other, because it gives players freedom to do whatever

[keen plover]

It can fracture it, but killing it due to stunning it? No

[golden coral]

How about we balance the game? :p

[keen plover]

That's horrible

[frail bobcat]

the issue is, pachys just destroy tenos

[keen plover]

Tenos don't kill Pachy's. Pachy's kill Tenos

[river nexus]

Currently, dryo pop is nothing
Adding 50N to a dryo would be great for its pop, and it wouldn't be much harmful at all

[river nexus]

tenos are faster aren't they

[golden coral]

Yes. The stunlock is the issue. Adjust that, and pachies shouldnt be soloing a teno or carno that knows how to play.

[distant torrent]

someone suggested not allowing pachies to stun a player if the player is already fractured in the area that was hit

[golden coral]

No.

[river nexus]

tenos are slower than pachies?

[keen plover]

Pachy is. It also has more stamina and deals fractures to lower your stamina

[golden coral]

It would ruin balance ever so much.

[river nexus]

it's a dryo

[keen plover]

Teno has no way to defend against Pachy when the moment you get hit with a body fracture, the Teno can only kick 4 times

Slam *

[river nexus]

At least we're getting 3 new viable playables, so dryo not being played isn't really that large of a concern

[golden coral]

Yep. That way you'd get a total of three stuns. One for each body part, and after that, you leave. After all, a teno or carno with broken head, body, and leg, isn't gonna get you any time soon unless you just stand there. But if you do keep fighting, it can fight back and possibly kill you.

[golden coral]

You don't understand balance at all, do you. Old dryo wasn't balanced, in case you thought that. They could mob stegos to death.

[distant torrent]

14 slams last I checked in an unofficial server

[golden coral]

Not that you can even slam in the first place if it just stuns you :p

[keen plover]

There needs to be a layer where groups can still down solo pseudo mids

[keen plover]

With body fracture, Teno tail slam cost is 24% of its stamina, while kick is 18%

It can only slam 4 times with body frac

[distant torrent]

oh yea that makes more sense haha

[golden coral]

They'd still be able to. They just take turns, and the teno or carno would still die to 3-4 pachies.

[keen plover]

5 times with kick

Good in that regards

Losing 1 v 1 against something that grows for half your grow time

If it was anything else apart from Pachy, people would realise how stupid it was. Like imagine a Carno could solo an Alberto or something lol

[dusky surge]

i adore the fact that everyone here has come up and presented all these creative and fun ways to change dryo and all EU Carno wants to do is buff the biteforce, the lamest buff it could get

[frail bobcat]

I have a better Idea for dryo: give it the pue treatment. Its not gonna change anything anyway

[twilit juniper]

Yeah, it doesn’t exactly matter if “it’s just a dryo”, a dryo could be an apex herbi if it was buffed in stats like dmg, but no, it’s not a poor balance decision cause it’s a dryo, cause dryo is small and weak. (Flashbacks of when a few dryos WAS a semi apex tier Dino, mobbing and killing things x10 and more it’s size 💀)

[dusky surge]

you realise thats what he wants, right? He wants that dryo back

the basis of his entire argument is getting U3 dryo back because "more people played it"

[twilit juniper]

Yeah, I do. I was just more to saying, how is “it’s just this animal” a valid argument 🥲

[keen plover]

I genuinely like the idea of Dryo players always trusting each other. Cause it deals like no damage, so any attempt at killing you just fails

Making it another creature where you're on edge about your species sucks

Also not to mention a creature growing for 30 minutes would be the ultimate swarm creature with a 50n bite

[twilit juniper]

I feel like that’s the least concern, I think every species should worry about they’re own species at some point, since if they can’t kill other things, they should be at mercy if they’re own. (For the players that just canni for no reason)

More bigger concern with that would just be that it will mob creatures it shouldn’t

[keen plover]

Most of these changes could be added in 6.5. Please 🥹

[keen plover]

Fair. It would be a mistake for a lot of reasons

Losing a Teno because a massive group of Dryos hopped on

[twilit juniper]

L moment

[dusky surge]

almost like having a chill animal is more fun

[keen plover]

Yes. Which is why I hope the hadrosaurs suck at hurting each other as well

Well within their species

[twilit juniper]

It’s a neat little idea, but excluding 1 animal from a whole group of players is also kind of bad. Cause I will bet money that 70-80% of the isle population wants pvp only

[keen plover]

They deal damage, but not enough to either cripple or bleed you. So you can tank a few and still get out of there

[keen plover]

The current scaling, ease of growth + diets need changing. Let the PvP players compete, but it shouldn't be as easy as right now

[twilit juniper]

Yeah, hopefully that changes, I want more pve, so much more

Diets have had so many changes ever since it was released and it’s still not ideal 💀 idk when that will happen

[keen plover]

Diets for carnis need slight altering. For herbis, it's mainly the amount of diet plants that spawn

There needs to be a level where many of them can't be supported, so actual competition is needed. They can still play those playables though. It just wouldn't be ideal having barely any diets.

---

For carnis though, ideas I've seen in here are:

• No diets from bones
• Organs being more diet rich than now.
• Flesh from AI & playables not being as impactful as currently

[dusky surge]

i feel like there should be some animals that do gain benefits from bones

but bones themselves should have reduced nutrients

[keen plover]

Maybe Cerato. I just don't like Deino getting all 3 from bones at least

[slim dragon]

Rn bones fill all 3 nutrients for those who can eat them, right ? Maybe it would already be better if they only filled 1 nutrient

[keen plover]

Yes

[twilit juniper]

I just want it to be much more difficult to maintain a perfect or desired diet while growing and when adult

There’s way too little of “my diet is bad and I’m malnourished”, everyone seems content at all times with 0 danger of malnutrition

[keen plover]

Hopefully will be. I would personally just rid the body of organs. Eat them all so the next carni can't get any

[twilit juniper]

How would that work though? Sometimes you yourself need organs and have to dig them out and leave them lying around

[keen plover]

Get your diets first and eat the leftovers

[twilit juniper]

People don’t do that already?

[slim dragon]

Also @dusky surge I've been thinking of something about the diet rework. What if AI still didn't have organs, but each one of them gave one specific nutrient, in low quantities ?

Nutrient is shared across all species ofc, no more shopping lists

[dusky surge]

still not good imho

again, allowing AI as a copout is ehhh

[keen plover]

They do. It would just be more impactful with organs being the 'main' thing you get. Flesh being not as impactful hopefully

[slim dragon]

You can't hunt other players all the times

[twilit juniper]

Oh I see, hopefully then, yeah

[slim dragon]

Sometimes you're playing solo troodon, sometimes the server you're playing on is empty

It seems harsh to punish people for things they have no control over

[twilit juniper]

I also hate how a deino heart for example, gives the same nutrients as a hypsi heart 💀 idk who thought that was a good idea

Like the same amount

[keen plover]

Numbers like that will hopefully be changed soon

[twilit juniper]

Yeah, I just don’t know why it wasn’t thought of when it was first introduced

[keen plover]

The current system doesn't benefit big game hunter

[twilit juniper]

Some issues are so blatantly easily fixable, it’s clear that it shouldn’t have even like this from the start, so idk why they’re so okay with it

I know there’s a problem with isle players rushing devs to push out updates, but I’d prefer everything to be polished and working perfectly before it’s released Some issues are just left alone for no reason

[keen plover]

They wanted the update out by the end of the year. They're currently migrating to UE5, so no hotfix was possible either.

[twilit juniper]

Yeah, sadly

[fallow blaze]

Another reason why it's also so easy to get all the nutriens when growing is, because as a juvi and sub you are ridiculously fast and have ridiculously much stamina.

but that was changed because everyone cried around between update 2 and 3 (I know, diet doesn't exist diet at that point).

[fleet torrent]

Idk, if you dont changue the attack animation or the time it takes to connect an atrack how would you balance it?

[fleet torrent]

tf? no lol, you would be supposed to predict a movement and you land it a bit earlier than you do at this moment, you cant deny it attacks faster as how it should or that it can spam its attack being unbalanced/unrealistic, taking into account how weird it hitbox is, or how optimization in game is. (ping/fps) making the fights have a bad performance

[fleet torrent]

actually their opponents are the ones to struggle to land blows and the stego its the one chilling, listen i dont hate the specie i learned to tolerate it. But it cant be possible that even when i play as one it feels better than the others in terms of power yk, its like too much for it.. It needs a balance and not in stats, bc that will be what would kill the dinosaur, it needs a balance in how it performances with its environment

[golden coral]

The problem is, nothing in the game is meant to hunt it, much less be good at it. If you balance it for that now, then you'd have to rebalance it later for the entire roster, and that brings its own issues.

[fleet torrent]

Better to do that, than having a good amount of players uncomfortable with it

[golden coral]

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not convinced it's better. Especially not since it both requires other things to change, such as deino if you adjust stego, as well as risks setting up bad expectations from the playerbase concerning critters interactions.

[slim dragon]

Stego is already nerfed down to cater to the current roster tho

[true fjord]

<@&933486433342222376>

[fleet torrent]

We're talking about stego rn

[fleet torrent]

List the nerfs

[slim dragon]

It's not something you "list"
But stego is weaker than it should be in the final game right now, because if it stays as-is once apexes are added, it's gonna be fodder

But it will probably need more health, more damage, more speed or new attacks

[golden coral]

Yes. And I pointed out that if you changed stego, you'd need to change deino, and probably omni and a few others too. You'd also need to change the growth times, maybe the group limits of things, and then you'd have to rebalance later and maybe make what could be killed by a few omnis be untouchable to a megapack, and similar, which would in turn upset that playerbase that might have gotten used to being able to hunt stego and deino, and so on. Do you see what I mean with all the potential issues?

[golden coral]

Well, it's maybe not so much nerfed, as simply more of a AI playable. But we know stego is getting new attacks, and it most likely will get stat buffs as well if needed. Consider that our stego is 6T, while it could be buffed up to 8T, and then there's the armor on neck and throat, attacks while moving, and so on. Generally, if stego was fully designed and "maxed out", for what it could be, it'd be plenty more powerful. Same can most likely be said for deino too, there's potential for new attacks there too, and maybe even a weight increase if they can adjust lunge to be more interactive and have some form of counterplay.

[distant torrent]

@plush panther I firmly believe omni is currently terrible to play as right now because of the crappy hit boxes (which are apparently getting fixed). all of my deaths as omni were because of my tail getting clipped by either a carno ram that shouldn’t have hit, or a stego swing that never should’ve sucked me into the tail spikes. once the hit boxes are fixed, it won’t need a buff (though I wouldn’t mind a stego blood pool nerf. just my personal take on that)

[dusky surge]

the problem with omni is everything else is broken

[distant torrent]

yes that too

[plush panther]

everything can oneshot, or almost, meanwhile utah need long fight

[dusky surge]

omni is meant to be an endurance hunter, yes

[distant torrent]

getting one shot doesn’t matter as long as you’re good at dodging and weaving (of course if the hit boxes don’t s u c k)

[plush panther]

yeah i agree

[distant torrent]

omni has a lot of agility, so it doesn’t need to be tanky

[plush panther]

but i dont think hitbox are the issue

just good scenario for utah are to rare

imo*

[golden coral]

Carno charge hitbox is absolutely an issue. I don't think stego hitbox has anything wrong with it though.

[dusky surge]

because carno and pachy are way too strong

[golden coral]

Also that, if pachy gets proper nerfs so it's no longer a teno/carno killer, omni would probably look better as an alternative.

[plush panther]

yeah, so better buff a bit utah is better than nerfing everything idk xD

[dusky surge]

no, pachy and carno need a nerf far more

[distant torrent]

3-4 omnis can actually easily bleed a carno out quite fast still, but good luck when you’re stunned because the tip of your tail was hit with a ram

[golden coral]

No, because pachy is an issue with it's stunlocks, and carno charge hitbox is off, this has been acknowledged. Omni is pretty fine, it handles tenos quite well, or so I've heard.

[dusky surge]

keeping pachy and carno at current levels and buffing omni to their level is a horrible plan

[plush panther]

hmmm

prob yeah

[distant torrent]

it really does. the only problem is when the teno camps mud pits or trees to knock omnis off, but they need some kind of chance at survival I guess

[golden coral]

Considering how rare mudpits are, I keep wondering which mudpits are actually used. Also teno camping is a terrible idea, it dehydrates faster than everything else.

So as long as you can trade out, having 3-4 omnis, you can just take your time.

[plush panther]

stego and teno camping are too strong

like a lonely stego, into 100 utah, can just run too a cliff

and utah legit became useless

it force to fight for water or food

[golden coral]

Just trade out, you have the numbers advantage.

[plush panther]

but utah are a lot, so they need more food, and if the stego wan't to move, utah can't realy 'stop' him, they can apply bleed only

[plush panther]

no, if u jump, he just make u fall

[golden coral]

And bleed is quite lethal and quickly becomes a problem. At about half bleed, you're kind of out of the fight most of the time.

[plush panther]

maybe cliff was not the good word

[golden coral]

No, I meant, have some of your pack take turns to get food and water, while the rest keep tabs on the prey.

There's only so long you can "camp", before you die to starvation or dehydration.

[plush panther]

oh that way

yes, but then the stego can move to the water

if near by *
and when he camp at the edge, he regen bleed, so u cant realy play around bleed when he re start moving s

[golden coral]

You don't need the entire pack at all times to be a threat. And if it does move to the water, you can attack it on the way, and even while it's drinking, because it will have to do so.

[plush panther]

yeah, but u need to hope, that there is nothing near that can interact, carno and ur dead, pachy aswell, another stego and it's over

[golden coral]

You can also apply trickery and try to fool the target into thinking you've left and it's safe to move.

[plush panther]

if omni do 1 mistake, oneshot

[golden coral]

Well yes, but that's the risk of long term hunts, this applies to any predator really.

[plush panther]

that smart

[golden coral]

And when cerato comes out, you'll lose your hardearned kill to it :p

[plush panther]

yeah, long term are too risky rn, i mean everything can oneshot, but not utah

[golden coral]

It tends to work. Most players don't enjoy camping, they do it because they don't believe they stand a chance to fight otherwise.

[hasty coyote]

@plush panther just fyi, pachy can’t 1-shot Omni. Charged ram does 125, so even double headshot only deals 375, but that’s nearly impossible if the Omni knows how to press a or d.

[golden coral]

So they'll move if they think they can get away with it.

Carno only one shots omni on head shot charge I believe too.

[distant torrent]

that one cera watching omnis fight a stego, just waiting to steal their hard earned kill after a long 40 minute hunt of pure agony for the omnis:

[plush panther]

oh ok thanks, i was not sure about the oneshot

[hasty coyote]

Or just charge and a bite

[plush panther]

yeah

[plush panther]

yeah, ram into bite work aswell

[golden coral]

Yep. I fully expect people to enjoy losing lots of kills to them. And then they'll miss stegos bodycamping instead, because at least the stegos will leave and not eat the food first. The ceras will eat and then keep following you for your next kill :p

[golden coral]

Well yes, but I don't count that as a oneshot :p

[plush panther]

i can't put that tier list here TwT

[hasty coyote]

Fair, I personally count an undodgeable combo a 1-shot

[plush panther]

yeah, that called true combo, if he hit 1 hit, and u can't dodge the other, that true combo

[golden coral]

@plush pantherIf you're hunting a stego, I'd suggest both having at least 7 adult omnis, preferably the full 8 omnis in the pack. Then you need to find a stego, and watch it. See what it does, where it goes, and plan where to jump it, and how to act if it tries to camp, and so on. You're supposed to play a clever, attrition hunter, so play the part properly. And most importantly, only show one or at most two of you at any given time until you're going to commit. The more you can fool the stego, or any other target, into thinking you're no threat at all, the better. Apply the same to a carno, but keep in mind it's faster so have escape routes and distractions planned as well, since with a carno, you want to make it waste stam if you can before engaging. As well as consider using scare tactics if the carno has used a lot of stamina, showing the rest of the pack in positions around it, to see if it might try to run and waste even more stam that way. Just keep in mind to position the pack so at least one or two can follow to not lose the carno.

[golden coral]

Considering the carno can be distracted, or otherwise for some reason mess up, I still see more than one result from just being charged.

[hasty coyote]

Plus, the main issue with fighting neither of those 2 is that they are built to counter you. Stego is wide flank coverage and can 1-shot you, and carno is meant to blitz down anything smaller than it so it tries to not give you any time to set up the attrition.

[golden coral]

That too. Teno and pachy are far better prey, since the omni has control of the engagement and neither of them are quite as scary to engage.

But the suggestions for how to handle something camping can be applied no matter the target.

Most omnis seem to not be that good at playing the JP raptor they're meant to be for some reason.

[hasty coyote]

Pachy is also kinda meant to counter Omni lol, they win the head on engagement up to a 1v3 depending on skill difference. Though having a large enough pack can easily make it basically fodder because it literally does not have the stam to kill you all.

[golden coral]

Oh yes, pachy is a difficult target, no doubt. But you still have the control of the engagement there, which does help. And allows for similar tricks if needed. And I'd argue that one way to potentially handle a pachy is to apply similar level of aggression, in order to try and not give it breathing room to properly mess one of you up. But that requires being very good at knowing how close you can and can not get to a pachy at any given time.

[hasty coyote]

Yeah that’s what me and a group realized when we were practicing Omni v stuff in an admin server. If everyone just blitzes down the pachy, it doesn’t have the time nor stam to kill everyone, and if you get injured you can run off while the rest finish it.

[keen plover]

Also the example of 3 carnos. 8 omnis should always run from 3 carnos. It isn’t a fight at that point

[dusky surge]

@plush panther carno is confirmed to be getting a hitbox fix, it's a known issue, stego actually has one of the tightest and most accurate hitboxes to the animation in the game, usually most deaths where it kills you from afar are a latency issue

[eager saddle]

Idk, I still get hit while being under the actual tail as a deino

I'd like to know what the angle of the hitbox is supposed to be

[thin mantle]

That's intended, if it didn't extend down to the ground stego physically wouldn't be able to fight anything shorter than an omni

[eager saddle]

right, but if I am in the water at the literally bottom of the river, should I still be getting hit?

[thin mantle]

Depends on if the stego can reach that far

If the river is shallow, yes

[analog mirage]

I still think a mechanic to make tail attacks going through the water half their damage cause it should be going a little slower as it’s dragging it’s tail through the water

[dusky surge]

@forest raft pachy is OP enough as is lol

[forest raft]

@dusky surge If a pachy gets all fractures on a carno the carno can still chase it down even with leg frac

and they can barely travel the map since their walk is so slow and they dont have stamina to constantly run

[bright oasis]

Instead of suggesting a stam buff, suggest a speed nerf for leg fractured carnos. I would also advocate for a trot speed buff for pachy once its ability to stun forever is fixed.

[distant torrent]

false unless the pachy was dumb and wasted every ounce of its stam

but they could potentially catch and kill a pachy with plenty of stam if they just have a body fracture and not a leg fracture I believe. they can still run and ram, their stamina just depletes like crazy. with a leg fracture, they can only limp and can’t run at all or ram

[forest raft]

Yes they cant run or ram, but they are still fast with leg fracture

[keen plover]

Not really? They run at 27km/h.

Also if you get all the fractures like you said, the Carno can only run for 20 seconds at that speed

I do agree that Pachy’s ‘trot’ is slow though

I wish we either had better trots or something in between trots & sprints

[distant torrent]

I wouldn’t be against a little buff for the pachy trot speed but there’s no way a carno with a fractured leg is catching a pachy that didn’t waste all of its stam, so carno’s speed with a broken leg isn’t much of a problem

[keen plover]

Agreed

A Carno with all those fractures against current Pachy would more than likely want to get away lol

[distant torrent]

fr haha

your only chance against pachies as a carno with fractured body parts is the large mud pit in lemon fields

[keen plover]

Yep. Or using the cliffs to make them miss. I wouldn’t mess with a Pachy at all if it saw me coming, let alone with fractures

[distant torrent]

very true

[plush panther]

https://youtu.be/PfoIZpoPhTo
20:00m

( the stego played well, but i think that wrong tho )

u can do that with pachy aswell

[bright oasis]

Just looks like the stego predicted the jump off and got him mid air. It happens. Like it started the swing before he hit the ground.

[fallow blaze]

it's scary i agree with you. lol
but I recently had a different experience. 😅

i wanted to die as a carno because my friends started a herd of tenos on the same official server. but I wanted to die fighting.
after beating an Adult Carno and a Utah (they weren't good) and healing my bleed; I went southwest. because there are always pachys there.

I remember that I had 87% life (in the current update), but I don't remember my diet anymore...
in any case, I walked towards 2 pachys (without charge).
I stood without walking and fought them.
what can i say: i had a broken head (first hit) but still saw enough, broken legs, broken chest= but i killed both of them 😅🤷‍♂️
the ALT button attack is still strong enough
but one or two more hits and I would have died. if you want to do that, you need strong nerves. 😄

[dusky surge]

God those are some horrid pachies lol

If they’re dying to a head fractured, leg fractured and body fractured carno using alt-attack, that’s genuinely pathetic

Not even mentioning the fact you didn’t use charge

Not only is carno’s alt-attack just not that good, being slow as hell and doing barely any more damage, it also uses stam, which when combined with a body fracture, should exhaust the Carno with ease. Them losing is the height of skill issue, they could’ve easily stunlocked you and destroyed you

[fallow blaze]

the pachy does not cause high lethal damage.
we both talked about it before 😉
but yes, once in a while they had hit me at the same time with RMB. of course that wasn't so good.
but that wasn't all the time.
well, I don't know my diet anymore. maybe I had also had blunt resist by chance..
the ALT button is slow yes. but I had a good sense of timing when to press it.
oddly my bite also counted when the pachy hit me with RMB. Hear it screaming. that happened often.
but from what I can tell the ALT attack must do slightly more damage than LMB. It has saved me many times.

but yeah skill belongs to every fight.
For example, I find it easy to kill 1 Adult Stego with 3 Carnos (friends of my community) because we know his weakness. He can only hit where he looks.
if he hits to the left side, he is blind on the right and briefly immobile. IT IS A SMALL time window and a lot has to be right! (distance to stego, approach angle) but possible and trainable.

and here in the fight against the 2 Pachys I probably had the better timing.

[dusky surge]

Pachy doesn’t need lethal damage, it could do literal pillow punch damage, but as long as it can stun as good as it can now, it’s still broken

The damage isn’t at all what makes pachy strong

As long as it can continue stunlocking carnos and tenos with rams, it’s broken as all hell

[fallow blaze]

Sure i know him good
But you have to train that of cause.
it's not what many think:
I play pachy two or three times and master it perfectly.
as you can see in my example.

[dusky surge]

Those pachies were bad, one pachy can easily kill a carno, two pachies have zero excuse to die to a single carno except just a massive skill issue

[fallow blaze]

I know that many say that 1vs1 pachy wins very easily against a carno.
but I myself have never experienced that WITHOUT Carno running away and pachy chasing him to the ground.

i'm really not a bad pachy player, but then the carno player must have always been better.😄

i always ran out of stamina as a pachy because the fight takes too long if the carno doesn't run away.

Of course I try to hit him in the most important places, but I can't say whether I always succeeded🤷‍♂️ the leg, body and head hit boxes overlap.

[dusky surge]

Doesn’t really matter where you hit him as long as you hit him. The stun against carno is a hard carry

Not even going to mention how horribly mauled teno gets by pachies

[fallow blaze]

Ok didnt know That.

Sadly I never had pachy vs teno
But it has to be worst

[dusky surge]

Teno literally cannot do anything against a competent pachy except stand still to make the dying quicker

[fallow blaze]

the same with pachy.
I slid down a very small slope in the center.
-> broken leg
and then 2 Utahs came by.
perfect timing. Only LMB works lol

[neon willow]

Part of Utah's pack playstyle is that the pack needs to bait attacks so Utah's can dismount safely

Distract, overwhelm, etc

The strength of the pack is the Utah, the strength of the Utah is the pack

[plush panther]

but it negate solo play from utah :c

even great player like nappn say's that utah are legit useless rn

too much way to counter them, and with the hitbox that doesn't help

[dusky surge]

The fact that Nappn was so capable of doing what they were doing was indicative of omni’s overpowered state

A solo omni should not see a tenonto or carno as an equal challenge

[neon willow]

Well that's another problem, caused by various factors like extremely improved bucking and carno charge hitbox issues

[plush panther]

Ofc, if both are equal level >.>

[dusky surge]

Nappn had an idea that if you were a skilled omni, you deserved to be able to kill things well beyond your size range alone, which I have never agreed with

[plush panther]

I think outplay is part of the game

even if he had 5 times the level of a carno, u can see the fight is realy close

[neon willow]

I do think bucking is a bit overtuned now, but Utah's shouldn't get to cling for 4-5 seconds applying crazy bleed

[plush panther]

bucking ?

[dusky surge]

Nappn saying “omni is useless” doesn’t mean much, because firstly, omni is fine, it’s the carnos, pachies and deinos that are the problem, and secondly, there should not be an expectation of solo omnis beating things over 3x their size

[neon willow]

A dino bucking (hold E) to remove a Utah from their back fully drains the Utah's Stam in under a second

[plush panther]

Well omni is fine, but it's like stego, stego are weak if we had apex, but we don't, so stego pretty Overpowered rn

[neon willow]

And in 2 big chunks so you can't predict when you're out

[plush panther]

yeah, u can bucking them so easly

u dont even need to stand still

[neon willow]

I don't mind them not standing still.. plenty of footage of rodeo horses or cattle bucking that manage to move forward and turn while bucking the heck out of the guy on their back

[plush panther]

So Omni are fine if the game were balance, but the game is not, since carno hitbox is a problem, pachy aswell

[neon willow]

Yes

Carno hitbox is horrifically bugged and pachy is incredibly op

[dusky surge]

I mean, carno is more problematic to omni, since I see absolutely no issue with pachy vs omni in its current state, pachy should be allowed to turn omnis into mince meat

[plush panther]

Yep, and it makes omni barely viable

[dusky surge]

Pachy is really mainly OP against teno and carno

[plush panther]

Well pachy just destroy omni

[dusky surge]

Which I’m fine with

[plush panther]

Me not, since carni are way harder too keep alive than herbi

[neon willow]

Carno is literally intended to hunt smalls though... utah is a low tier/small. so...

[plush panther]

Both need around 1h15 to growth, but pachy can legit go south west and afk with infinite orange and coco

[dusky surge]

I’m fine with carno obliterating omni too, but that hitbox is absurd

[neon willow]

it really is

[dusky surge]

The hitbox makes the entire matchup entirely unfair

[neon willow]

agreed

[plush panther]

Yeah hitbox are just no sense

Wish makes omni useless into carno

[dusky surge]

Pachy and carno should not really fear omni that much imho. It’d be nice if we had Diablo, since I can see it having an actually interesting matchup where it isn’t designed to hard counter omni packs

[plush panther]

Good player should be able to outplay

[dusky surge]

Good player should be able to escape a carno at least

[plush panther]

Ofc, im not saying carno is fair, did i ?

I talk more about omni

[dusky surge]

A solo omni vs a solo carno should be either the omni escapes, or it dies

[plush panther]

depends, if the omni is realy good, and dodge everything, ofc he is allowed to kill a carno

[dusky surge]

Rather than right now, where it can’t escape and dies regardless

[dusky surge]

I’d rather not have that, personally, unless the carno is literally AFK or brain dead

The idea of small game killing small game hunter still irritates me. Carno’s entire purpose is to terrorise omnis, pachies and other small tiers, yet it’s constantly bullied by these two

[thin dragon]

Just a little addition, but it's not too hard to find the latter of those :P

[plush panther]

Yeah, but it make omni so " useless " ?

[dusky surge]

No, it makes it balanced

[plush panther]

Well, how tho ?

[dusky surge]

Omni not being able to solo a carno doesn’t make it useless lol

That’s a ridiculous sentiment

[plush panther]

So u think pachy shouldn't be able to destroy carno aswell then ?

[dusky surge]

That’s like saying allo should solo a Rex for, otherwise it’s useless. Completely illogical

[dusky surge]

Yes, 100%

The fact pachy is this much of a threat to its primary predator is absurd

[plush panther]

solo if the Allo is realy realy good and outplay the rez

[dusky surge]

This is the death match mindset I hate

By this logic, everything should solo everything

Hypsis vs hypers 1v1, a fair fight

[neon willow]

omni won't be useless against dinos that will be added that is a better matchup for it. dinos that are designed to counter utah are not where the utah should shine... same with stego vs deino. Deino is literally not equipped to solo stego, ergo do not solo stego.

[dusky surge]

Troodon and beipi already help expand omnis list of prey items. Herrera will likely also be an easy hunt for an omni while out in the open, and a Diablo would be perfect for an omni pack

[neon willow]

you should NOT be able to win against everything in a SURVIVAL game. The goal is to survive, not win every fight

[plush panther]

yeah ofc

like omni can't solo stego

[neon willow]

Some matchups your best option SHOULD be to run. Some you should be able to fight

[plush panther]

But im not talking about hypsi or dryo into carno

[dusky surge]

Omni soloing stego is such an absurd concept not shouldn’t even be humoured

Omni soloing carno is equally absurd

[neon willow]

omni really shouldn't solo something 3x its size either

[plush panther]

ofc but if the omni is realy good, u can outplay.

[neon willow]

it would be like expecting a 1.8T carno to be able to solo a deino... no

[plush panther]

In everygame, u can outplay

[neon willow]

the outplay is dodge, cut, and RUN

[dusky surge]

So a really good dryo should outplay a Rex?

[plush panther]

that just impossible aha

[neon willow]

you should be able to survive. not WIN. running and getting away is outplaying

[dusky surge]

If outplaying is the name of the game, every animal should be able to do it

Why is only omni allowed to outplay?

[plush panther]

It's like league of legend, u can outplay even if they got more stuff, but even if u the best player in the world, if u lvl 1 with no stuff, u can't kill a lvl 18 full stuff olaf or so

[dusky surge]

Solo omni should treat carno as a threat, not a challenge. A skilled omni should know how to escape, it should not be prepared to kill the carno

[plush panther]

everyone can outplay, but omni got more way to "skill express" than other

[dusky surge]

The Isle is NOTHING like League, what an absurd comparison

[plush panther]

i can take another game if u wan't

[dusky surge]

A competitive MOBA is obviously going to have the matchups be more balanced because it isn’t trying to build an ecosystem

[plush panther]

FPS ? Someone with small gun can outplay machine gun, it's rare but it can happen

[dusky surge]

Not the same. FPS balances guns for certain situations, every gun will find their purpose

[plush panther]

Same with omni/carno, that just how the game work, if u can dodge everything ,and hit the carno, u can outplay

pokemon maybe ?

[dusky surge]

Comparing competitive games balanced around equal and fair matchups for all parties to a game trying to create an ecosystem, where some animals must know when best to flee a predator is an absurd argument

[plush panther]

U can won with weird strat with basic pokemon under level against full legendary max lvl pokemon

[dusky surge]

Yea and that’s an entirely seperate example

[neon willow]

the difference is none of those games are survival

[dusky surge]

Nothing like The Isle

[plush panther]

Well, boss then ?

[keen plover]

Current Omni, even with the ability to dodge all of Carnos attacks is still not going to down one

[dusky surge]

The fact that people are still obsessed with this need for omni to strike down carnos on its lonesome to put in their solo omni montage video is ridiculous

[plush panther]

U can if the omni is realy good, and u don't get bullsh*t by hitbox

[keen plover]

No chance if the Carno has a brain though

[plush panther]

Ok i got ark

[keen plover]

Unless you're running your stamina down to 0%, which at that point, yeah the Omni wins

[dusky surge]

If an omni can solo a carno, a dryo should be just as capable, since it’s clear that carno is entirely incompetent

[plush panther]

ark survival game

A t-rex won't 1v1 a giga, cuz that's too unfair

And there is no way too outplay

[dusky surge]

Don’t you even dare try to make a matchup argument with ARK lol, that game’s a hellhole

[plush panther]

BUT, if u take 2 managarm, even if one is way under level or breed idk

since u can "outplay" in some way's, it's duable

Omni give the player tool's to outplay

but dryo don't into rex

[dusky surge]

Again, with this same argument, I can argue dryo v rex. It’s smaller but it’s faster and more agile, therefor it should outplay

You can’t say omni deserves this luxury of punching up then say “oh but dryo doesn’t”

[plush panther]

that the diff, rex can oneshot way more easy, and dryo does 0 dmg

but omni and carno, it's possible since both do dmg

[dusky surge]

By this logic, omni shouldn’t scare troodon, since the troodon can just outplay and solo it

[keen plover]

Outplaying a bad player and killing them? That's fine. However 2 players on roughly the same skill level should mean a Carno dominates an Omni

[plush panther]

yep

[neon willow]

a high bred rex can actually 1v1 a high bred giga, or so i've heard... tamed giga gets nuked into the GROUND in terms of stats to make it balanced for pvp

[plush panther]

That the case right now no ?

[dusky surge]

If the carno is brain dead then yes

Otherwise carno should win, regardless of omni skill

[plush panther]

tamed giga are useless, u need to breed them 100 times before getting good dmg, so ofc fresh tamed giga against 500 breed trex, the rex got chance

[dusky surge]

If a carno has a slight degree of competency, it should never be soloed by an omni

[plush panther]

Yep

[keen plover]

At this point, the discussion is pointless then? What's the point of arguing if an Omni can drop a Carno. Yeah, you're going to have a case where someone does a very unlikely kill. I've seen an Omni player kill a Deino.

[plush panther]

Or if the carno is average lvl, and the omni is the BEST omni player ever, omni will have chance

[dusky surge]

Nah

If the carno isn’t dumb, it shouldn’t die

[plush panther]

the discussion is : does omni should be able to outplay carno

[dusky surge]

The BEST omni player should know to run for the forests

[plush panther]

Ok but what's left for omni ?

[dusky surge]

And it should know the best way to evade the carno to avoid death

[keen plover]

The ability to hunt larger game in packs?

Or smaller creatures solo

[plush panther]

Pachy ? No
Stego ? No
Deino ? No
Teno ? No
Oh yeah hypsi and dryo or ptera, cuz we all know how strong those dino are

[dusky surge]

The ability to hunt animals like dryo, hypsi, ptera, troodon and beipi?

[plush panther]

yeah PVE creature ?

[dusky surge]

Damn it can’t hunt a teno solo! Useless!

[plush panther]

that almost no one play's

[dusky surge]

Get a pack

[keen plover]

Juvis exist and so does AI. You have an hour hunger time. Go find food

[plush panther]

even if they are 2 or 3, still realy hard

[dusky surge]

Literally not that hard

[keen plover]

Omni is viable solo

[plush panther]

Since teno can oneshot omni in head

[dusky surge]

If you’re a skilled omni like you say, you should be fine

[plush panther]

Yeah that hard, but it should be duable

[keen plover]

It is

[plush panther]

Like the chance should be around 20% omni for 80% carno

[neon willow]

Other smalls that haven't been added yet, mostly... ava, dryo, troodon, diablo maybe, etc. not familiar with the full roster. Juvis of everything, too.... and of course you can hunt meds and larges in packs

[plush panther]

But then there is skill that speak's

So if the matchup is 20/80, a good player can change the balance

I mean, that gaming no ?

Isn't how video games with pvp are most of the times are ?

If u got skills expression, u can do stuff

[neon willow]

I'd say more like 5/95... sure, if you are crazy good, you may be able to pull off a freak event and win. but the vast, VAST majority of solo utah vs solo carno should go in the carno's favor

[plush panther]

that the case, but realy good utah got the right to outplay carno.

[neon willow]

yes but again, the balance isn't about necessarily ending every fight with a kill one way or the other

[plush panther]

Yeah u can run, but we talk about the 1v1

[neon willow]

only because it is literally impossible to prevent that miniscule possibility unless you hard code that utah ungrouped cannot get a carno below 1% bleed or something ridiculous like that

same reason SOMEONE will guaranteed manage to kill a rex with a dryo if enough people attempt it...

just pure statistics

[plush panther]

Yep

That what im sayinh

[neon willow]

but it should not be 1/5 of fights that end up with a dead carno and a living solo utah

[plush panther]

Statistics make that possible, even if that hard

[plush panther]

It is not

That more 1/20 carno died

Because we all know how the hitbox is sooo coool

but when this 1/20 happen, i think that normal, i shouldnt be IMPOSSIBLE

[golden coral]

Well yes, a solo omni should not hunt things bigger than itself, even in a pair they should be quite limited. You don't need to hunt larger things to be viable and survive as a solo omni, so it' s fine, or will be with more in the roster. Omni should not be able to solo a carno or teno, unless they're just not actively playing the game or something maybe.

[golden coral]

Thing is, that shouldn't be doable. It shouldn't be a matter of "But I can dodge everything", or rather, "I can dodge everything so I can escape" rather than fight back and kill. You don't need to be able to solo a carno as omni for a balanced game, it would be unbalanced if anything.

[golden coral]

It really does not.

[frail bobcat]

Bro does not know teno exists

[golden coral]

You can hunt pachy, teno, carno, stego in packs. As you should, since all but one are much larger, and the smaller one is your hard counter.

Like sure, as you concluded, if the carno or teno is outright terrible and has no clue what so ever what it's doing, it'll die to a dryo or two, that can happen. But that's not really a good example because we do balance for how things go when people play properly. And playing properly, on both sides, a solo omni should not stand a chance vs a carno or teno at all really. So saying "well you can outplay", is not much of a useful argument because yes, you can probably outplay and kill a deino on land as a few dryos, given the deino is bad enough and the dryos are good enough, but well, as long as that deino has any clue how to play, the dryos aren't winning, no matter how good they are.

[thin mantle]

It does warm my heart a bit to see people realizing how fantastically designed teno is despite being basically fodderized by the roster rn

[alpine plover]

If the bar is that low for the Carno, yes

[alpine plover]

Game did Teno dirty

[thin mantle]

Mhm

[dusky surge]

ehhh, not really, teno's still kinda perfect

the issue is that its surrounded by gods

nerf the pachy and carno and the teno can actually do its thing again

[alpine plover]

Nah Teno great

Its the game's sandbox in question that does it dirty

I think rn Pachy is played way too aggressively

Often in teams tagging turns going for stuns and landing hard shots

Essentially bullying predators until death, rather than as a defensive tool

I think post fracture, a pachy shouldn't be able to stun anymore. Meaning after getting that fracture+stun, the pachy will no longer be able to recklessly keep diving in for exchanges. This would instantly neuter it's offensive play against Teno/Carnos or anything large

Ez fix

For Carno, one would be to first fix the hitbox issue.
Then for the headcharge mechanic. Reduce the damage for headcharge to utilize it as more of a tool. Make it eat up more stamina, so it can be as an ease of use tool for catching prey. But also used with mindful timing, as wasting it haphazardly can cost you the chase.

Bam, easy fixes

I am a genius

[dusky surge]

I've been spreading the idea that pachy should no longer be able to stun animals over 2x its own weight (1 ton) with headbutt, and all fractures should do staggers

If you can't stun ANYTHING after fracture, that's lame

Omni should still be knocked down on every hit, and other animals less than 1 ton should still be staggered

[alpine plover]

Well it wouldn't really matter if it can't stun anything because the damage is so big, it can pretty much knockdown anything with its weigh class and do damage to deal with it

[dusky surge]

It actually has pretty poor damage

[alpine plover]

I also think pachy should still do knockdowns, just cant stun after fracture for anything teno sized and above

[dusky surge]

I think it should only stun things below 1 ton

And only knockdown things smaller than itself

[alpine plover]

I agree for knockdowns, though what would pachy do in a situation it meets a carno or cerato
Would it have to tank the hit to get its emergency fracture

I dont see it panning out

[dusky surge]

Fracture = stun

So you get 3 stuns

[alpine plover]

Oh

[dusky surge]

Once you fracture everything, no more stuns

[alpine plover]

Then we agree

[dusky surge]

also pachy should just... run from cera

it doesn't NEED to fracture it

cera's already slow as hell and a terrible hunter

[alpine plover]

True, just a quick example

[tall bronze]

No.
Deathmatch.
Must fight.

👍

[dusky surge]

i mean, pachy probably can easily kill cera

[thin mantle]

Effortlessly

[dusky surge]

but im saying it can just run

doesnt even need to fight

[thin mantle]

It’s Carno with less health and no speed as far as Pachy is concerned

[alpine plover]

I wonder what the hell are they gonna do with Cera

High damage?

[dusky surge]

nope

low damage per bite

[thin mantle]

Make it acro with a smaller model probably, or at least that’s what it looks like

[alpine plover]

So fast bites?

[dusky surge]

yea

[alpine plover]

Oh so rapid damage, that would make it win trades for things like clawing tenos or carnos

[dusky surge]

i mean, its more for the sceptic bite tbh

multiple bites = vomit

[alpine plover]

Well in the next update, its good we have something to shake up the sandbox finally

I think its 3 new additions?

[dusky surge]

yep

it'll certainly be interesting to see how cera basically forces the devs to balance pachy

because while the teno mains have just suffered in silence, the cera mains will weep and moan that the 500kg pachy obliterated their epic awesome carnivore bully

[thin mantle]

Because nobody cares about you if you eat grass

[alpine plover]

To be real, being a herbi is boring as hell without combat

[thin mantle]

Both if you’re overpowered or underpowered

[dusky surge]

eh

[thin mantle]

I’m fine with them fighting, I’m not fine with balance discrepancies

Which Pachy is the walking embodiment of rn

[plush panther]

U mean that teno is underpowered xD ?

[dusky surge]

teno isnt underpowered

[thin mantle]

Not at all

[dusky surge]

i never said that

[plush panther]

btw is it true that cera will weight 500kg ??

[alpine plover]

Teno is fine
Pachy and Carno are busted

[dusky surge]

no

[thin mantle]

No

[plush panther]

i hope so, more about 3T no ?

[dusky surge]

literally labelled unreliable documentation

[plush panther]

I mean he eat a lot

[dusky surge]

ew wtf absolutely not

[thin mantle]

Lol no

It’s lighter than Carno

[dusky surge]

cera is more than likely smaller than carno

[plush panther]

he sould be more heavy than carno ?

[thin mantle]

3t is heavier than allo

[dusky surge]

nope

[thin mantle]

Why…

[dusky surge]

cera should be lighter than carno

[plush panther]

fr ?

[dusky surge]

yes?

[thin mantle]

Well as far as we know yes

[dusky surge]

allo's in between 2-3 tons

[plush panther]

so, a fg allo, can be grab by deino huh ?

[dusky surge]

yep

[plush panther]

ah, idk why, but in my head allo was spino

[dusky surge]

????

[plush panther]

im dumb asf mb, yeah allo are not that big

[thin mantle]

Neither is cera

[dusky surge]

cera is really small

it also doesn't need to be heavier than carno, at all

[thin mantle]

As much as some wish it were the physical manifestation of an immovable object, it shouldn’t be overweighted

[alpine plover]

Small in terms of dinosaurs at least, irl that was a big mf predator

[thin mantle]

It’s probably gonna be bigger in game than it was irl

[plush panther]

Ok, so even if he smaller than carno, he will have more hp right ?

[dusky surge]

people just assume that it should be big and strong to "fix the ecosystem" by stomping on literally everything and becoming the brand new problem child

[thin mantle]

Weight = HP

[dusky surge]

nope, weight = HP, it will have less if it weighs less

and it will probably weigh less

[plush panther]

So, in what way he gonna be tanky ?

[dusky surge]

resistances

[plush panther]

Only for small things ?

[dusky surge]

bleed resists, damage resists, so on

[plush panther]

Oooh, damage resists is a thing ?

[dusky surge]

been a thing forever

[thin mantle]

I wish it had a block but…yknow

[dusky surge]

pachy has damage resist to head damage

[plush panther]

oh ok, didnt know

[dusky surge]

headshotting a pachy is less effective than body shotting it

[plush panther]

my question is : If a cera cross a carno, does the cera have a chance to survive since he is pretty slow ?

[dusky surge]

it also means pachy has absolutely no critical hit areas, so it's very difficult to dish out insane damage

[dusky surge]

probably, since it's apparently been designed to deal with the carno

[thin mantle]

By dev admission Cerato steamrolls Carno

[plush panther]

steamrolls ?

[thin mantle]

Or to be more specific “bodies” Carno

[plush panther]

So, cera gonna be just unkillable things, that will robe your meal xD ?

[thin mantle]

Hopefully not

[dusky surge]

seems that way

[thin mantle]

But it sorta seems that way

[dusky surge]

i'd hope not, but that's what it's been advertised as

[plush panther]

I guess the only way if he cross 3 carno adults, or a good pack of utah

[dusky surge]

apparently its geared to just not care about omni, at all

[thin mantle]

Lovely

[alpine plover]

I think 2 Carnos would be a match to get it

[plush panther]

even with good bleed resists, i guess he can't realy kill them

[dusky surge]

not only can it ignore weaker attacks, it's got tons of bleed resist

[alpine plover]

Rip Omni

[dusky surge]

the fact that 2 carnos would be needed to kill one is already absurd

unless they also want to make it that 2 carnos are needed to kill a teno too

[alpine plover]

Though to be fair, I think Omni should have a few bad matchups
Cera, Stego, etc.

[dusky surge]

in which case that's fine

[thin mantle]

I hate how everything in the goddamn roster is designed specifically to counter omni only for omni to get overbuffed in ridiculous ways to counter it

[dusky surge]

omni's issue is that most of its bad matchups are being added early lol. Carno, stego, pachy and cera are all examples of animals built to beat this animal to death

[thin mantle]

Deino as well

[dusky surge]

Forgot deino

[thin mantle]

Granted deino counters the concept of a roster

[plush panther]

well, it has to be that way no ? Unless u wan't omni to be played by nobody

[dusky surge]

I mean, troodon and beipi are nice

[thin mantle]

Yeah, they give me hope

[plush panther]

Idk about beipi

[dusky surge]

Two members of the roster omni actually is designed to interact with

[thin mantle]

Troodon is apparently fast enough to outrun Omni

[alpine plover]

I think Omni are gonna be big counters to big/slow/high damage types
Whittling them away with patience until they fall

[thin mantle]

How does it engage with beipi or Troodon?

[plush panther]

Same for troodon, isnt like omni but why poison instead of blood ?

[thin mantle]

Troodon is faster and beipi is aquatic

[alpine plover]

Stego just happens to have the range to deal with it's mobility

[thin mantle]

Omni can’t follow either

[dusky surge]

It's got venom, and venom works completely differently. It's also nocturnal

[plush panther]

Oh, like in night they got better vision, are faster like in ARK ?

[thin mantle]

Better vision

[plush panther]

In ARK, they used to have sleep dmg, like 1 hit and u sleep, and in night they became way stronger

[dusky surge]

yea no nothing like that

[thin mantle]

Yeah it ain’t anything like that

[plush panther]

Just better vision that all ?

[dusky surge]

they aren't like ARK, don't use ARK as reference for anything Isle related lol

[thin mantle]

Being able to see whilst others can’t see you is a colossal advantage

[plush panther]

I use it more for dino xD That was my first dino game aha

[thin mantle]

I wouldn’t do that either tbh

[dusky surge]

don't do that either

[plush panther]

true, but since they are close range, unless the other dino dont pay lot of attention, it won't do that much diff no ?

[thin mantle]

Ideally that’s the counter

[dusky surge]

if they literally can't see you, you can easily attack from unexpected angles

[thin mantle]

We don’t want Troodon cut stomping everything they decide to kill

We don’t want anything doing that actually

[dusky surge]

it's also designed as a pack hunter

[plush panther]

Do we know how to counter the poison ? Or how strong it gonna be ?

[thin mantle]

No

[plush panther]

deino and carno >.>

[thin mantle]

Yes and in their current states they’re embarrassingly terrible

[dusky surge]

we know that troodons have a specific timing to increase the damage and effectiveness of their venom, and work in packs to essentially ramp the venom's effectiveness to lethal levels

[thin mantle]

Can’t wait for gateway

[plush panther]

Yeah, i think it would be ok to like, buff or nerf some dino, just the time for them to be good in the ecosystem, or not too overpowered uk ?

[dusky surge]

the best way to deal with them is to crush the little bastards, since they're squishy as all hell

[plush panther]

And when the times as come, just make them normal again

even if that kind of hard to do aha, but maybe dev could do more minor update, for some balance change or smth no ?

[thin mantle]

The best creatures to probably play against them would be Omni, teno, or stego

Carno and Pachy are probably gonna suffer a bit against them

[plush panther]

troodon ?

[thin mantle]

Yeah against Troodon

[plush panther]

Why ? I thought both had large hitbox

[dusky surge]

carno would struggle seeing the little bastards

[plush panther]

isnt the counter to small things ?

[dusky surge]

the hitbox on carno is being patched

[plush panther]

oh yeah true

[thin mantle]

Charge is going ti be basically useless against Troodon because Troodon is small, agile, and faster than Omni on top of not being able to see them and being terrible at self defense

[alpine plover]

So small Carno could not see where to scoop one up

[dusky surge]

pachy can only really kill one at a time, and unlike against omni, it doesn't have venom resist, so it's fair game against venom

[thin mantle]

Pachy just has predictable AOE and can’t move much against them

[plush panther]

Oh i see

[thin mantle]

Like Pachy is basically moving in skow motion compared to how fast Troodon’s are implied to be

[plush panther]

damn sad tho for the cera, i thought that dino would be bigger and heavy asf, i wish in a small world they had enought weight to not die to deino xD

[alpine plover]

I could see packs of troodon really threatening a Pachy or two

[thin mantle]

Even if they were 3 tons they’d get oneshot by deino

Deino effectively deals 4K dmg

[plush panther]

then make it 4.5T xDDDD

[dusky surge]

if you miss a ram (which is likely, due to troodon's extremely high speed and agility, along with tiny hitbox) you'll likely get pounced by a troodon and filled with venom. And since venom will likely slowly chip away at you, it's more than likely that you'll have very small windows to kill a troodon before it fills you with more venom then retreats into the dark

[thin mantle]

Well at that point it’s just a large Alberto? And 5 times the size of the actual animal

[alpine plover]

Especially if there's 6-7 of them

[plush panther]

but the venom work like bleed ? Does it affect you ? Like u are slower or smth

[dusky surge]

it is not like bleed, no

[plush panther]

yeah aha

[thin mantle]

Hopefully it doesn’t make you slower

[alpine plover]

With their small size their growth is likely to be fast, meaning there's gonna be lots of troodon clusters around the map

[thin mantle]

That would be a bizarre ability for one of the fastest animals in the game

[plush panther]

But troodon gonna make omni less played, way less played

[dusky surge]

it apparently "softens you up"

[dusky surge]

doubtful about that one chief

[plush panther]

why would u pick the omni with ur friend, when u can play troodon

[thin mantle]

No it’ll make them more played

Omni hard counters troodon

[plush panther]

hmmm fair point

[thin mantle]

Stego is also probably not a target Troodon’s can reasonably take

Omnis can

[alpine plover]

Troodon punches up to small tiers
Omni punches up to Apex tier

[dusky surge]

I mean, troodon probably punches up to mid tier at most