general-feedback-discussion

[tepid gate]

You are not meant to be killing it that way, idk what's so hard to grasp about that

[dapper mirage]

i just said that that's not my point

[tepid gate]

do you know how long it takes for animals with such a size discrepancy to kill the larger animal?

[dapper mirage]

you mean irl?

[tepid gate]

Yes, irl

[dapper mirage]

because this is a videogame where hunts should NOT be hours long like irl

[paper oriole]

But if youre hunting the totally wrong and stupid way you kinda deserve to take hours lol

Like biting a stego as a specialist pouncer

[tepid gate]

If you want the hunt to take a short time then you shouldn't be going after something 10 times your size

it's really that simple

Utah pack can currently kill a Stego in roughly 20-30 minutes, depending on how they're playing it(potentially faster but this is how long it took me and some people that I was playing with)

[dapper mirage]

my basic point is that 30 hits to kill something is a crazy amount as it is. forget the pounce and just pretend we're working with arbitrary numbers. apply the same logic to other matchups and not just utah

100+ is absolutely ridiculous and it echoes the weight mass system

[tepid gate]

Yea, I completely agree that Pachy should take just as long

[dapper mirage]

you mean pachy against a stego?

[tepid gate]

It's perfectly sensible for something that is in a completely different class

Yea

[dapper mirage]

pachy's ram doesnt even work on steg

[paper oriole]

Ok take a sword, whack somebody with the hilt 30 times and then conplain about how long it takes to kill them that way. Youre using it wrong

[tepid gate]

I've literally just gone over how it cancels Stego's attacks

Pachy's ram very much works on Stego

idk where you're getting the idea that it doesn't from

[frozen kestrel]

not a full 100% stego

[dapper mirage]

last i checked pachy cannot stun a stego

[frozen kestrel]

at like 50% maybe

[tepid gate]

100% fully grown Stego

[frozen kestrel]

it doesn't lmao

[tepid gate]

No, it doesn't matter how large the Stego is

[frozen kestrel]

??????

when have you last played the isle my friend

[dapper mirage]

im pretty darn sure pachy cannot stun a stego lmao

[tepid gate]

idk why you're thinking that Pachy's cancelling of attacks(which is a bug) doesn't work against Stego

stunning=/=canceling attacks

[frozen kestrel]

You're pretty darn right

[tepid gate]

those are two different things

you don't "stun" the stego, you just cancel its attack animation by bonking it at the right time

[dapper mirage]

is see what you meant but what does the cancelling have to do with this??? we're talking about stats not bugs

[crude girder]

Yeah Pachy is unable to stagger it, which would be the stun yall are talking about, but it can cancel the animation, and thus the hitboxes, of the attack

[tepid gate]

^

[distant flower]

So im completely stuck

in NA#4

any shot of assitance?

[crude girder]

Bug one of the admin for help there

[tepid gate]

It deals damage and it stops the attack, idk what more to tell you, that is Pachy's ram "working" on stego in my book

[distant flower]

who would i even ask

[tepid gate]

tag official server admin role

[crude girder]

Yellow names

[tepid gate]

use "@"

try to do that on NA-evrima channel

they should come over as soon as they're available

[distant flower]

@edgy harbor Hey dude. Any shot i could get a TP onto solid ground? completely stuck near a bunch of rocks

[crude girder]

in the mean time, try to safe log

[tepid gate]

let me do this for you

[distant flower]

yeah i did

[frozen kestrel]

you've gotta tell them ur ign and location

[distant flower]

thanks my man

[tepid gate]

You're welcome

[dapper mirage]

Anyway. My basic point is that I think it is absolutely absurd for any reasonably sized animal to need anything over 40 hits to kill an opponent

my cutoff for "reasonably sized" being utah sized and above

[frozen kestrel]

so utah should kill a rex in 40 bites?

or am I just misreading that?

[tepid gate]

40 or less

according to what he said

and of course it shouldn't - it should need far more than that

[dapper mirage]

Yea because if you're a rex and you let a utah bite you THAT much???

i mean come on now. you have to be braindead to let that happen

[frozen kestrel]

are we going off of real life or in game stats?

[dapper mirage]

my mindset is assuming that players would be smart enough to prevent a utah from getting 40 INDIVIDUAL bites on a t rex

[crude girder]

I mean in game, the Utahraptor shouldn't really be able to threaten the rex with its primary attack, that's what the special abilities are generally for

[dapper mirage]

in game of course, irl a utah wouldnt touch a rex

[dapper mirage]

i get that, but im making a very generalized point about base bite damage

[frozen kestrel]

so 2200 hp rex?

[dapper mirage]

No way

[crude girder]

that or 222 bite force for Utah

[dapper mirage]

remove weight=health and then buff everythings damage accordingly

[tepid gate]

Considering that the game is generally supposed to be trying to be realistic about this stuff the fact that an irl Utah wouldn't even touch a Rex is a pretty good indicator that it won't be doing much to a Rex in the game either.

[frozen kestrel]

alr

[tepid gate]

Thank the devs that's not going to happen

[frozen kestrel]

yea probably not

[crude girder]

I mean I don't see a reason we'd need to remove it when it's only a problem for Utah trying to blitz down apexes with the primary bite

[dapper mirage]

our utah also runs incredibly fast compared to real life, is stupid agile, and jumps 12 feet into the air. realism applies to a point, but if we wanna go for the realism route then tenonto should get literally trashed by carno every time

[crude girder]

it costs no stamina, is generally pretty fast, and it's on a super agile animal, that doesn't scream "should deal enough damage to be threatening to significantly larger animals" to me

[tepid gate]

Our Utah ain't no Utah and it's getting renamed further down the line

[crude girder]

Like if the primary attacks had stamina costs, I'd agree it should be more damaging

[tepid gate]

it was really named "Utahraptor" only because it was a big... raptor

real life Utahraptor is supposed to be added to the game later on according to Dondi

[dapper mirage]

but for now it IS utah, and the way it functions is how this animal will function forever regardless of a rename

[barren zephyr]

@dapper mirage That is actually a bug which'll be fixed...eventually..

[crude girder]

but if we remove mass = hp, and buff damage, we'd probably be in basically the same situation, but Utah would be dealing 250 damage per bite to a rex with like 20k hp

[tepid gate]

^

[crude girder]

It's not like the balance would change dramatically, we'd just have bigger numbers

[tepid gate]

They'd just upscale the hp pools of the larger creatures

[crude girder]

besides it's not like say, Dryo, needs more hp

[tepid gate]

Idk what's so hard to grasp about that, but small animal requiring a tonne of attacks to kill the big guys IS intentional

[dapper mirage]

does 40 bites not count as "a ton" of attacks?

[crude girder]

which is really the only case where we'd need to break mass = hp, since it makes small guys way less tanky

[tepid gate]

No, it doesn't with that size difference

[crude girder]

It's less that it's not a ton of attacks and more that the primary attack of a 500kg animal shouldn't ever be a concern to a nearly 9 ton animal

[dapper mirage]

i think you're underestimating how much effort it would take to stack THAT many attacks in a game like the isle where you can be one shot quickly

[tepid gate]

especially on an animal that has a powerful special ability that it's meant to use against the big game

[crude girder]

Utah's pounce tho? That's a dangerous tool

[barren zephyr]

If it works

And if the dismount doesn't fuck it over

[crude girder]

And the trend with Evrima is encourage the use of the unique special abilities, instead of "haha LMB BRRRRRRR"

[tepid gate]

Pounce works rather reliably on the current update in my experience

I haven't had it bug out once so far

[frozen kestrel]

lucky

[barren zephyr]

I encountered bug related to it, but dismount still needs some changes tbh

[crude girder]

like imo, the primary attack should generally drop off really fast when trying to punch up, since the use of the primary attack should be vs similar size or smaller for carnivores

and/or tuned to the hp of their prey

[barren zephyr]

cough make bites take stamina cough

[dapper mirage]

So let's say for the sake of argument (arbitrary numbers being used) Rex has 10k HP and utah has 250 damage. Utah kills rex with 40 body shot bites.

Assume that this fight has no special factors and the utah is not using pounce. The utah must go in on the rex FORTY (40) times and land a bite each time. FORTY times it is risking getting one shot by the rex. This is also not counting hits that the utah might miss, times the rex might move in a way that makes the utah unable to attack, etc.

[crude girder]

if you want to punch above your weight class, use stamina and your special ability

[tepid gate]

That sounds like some legacy garbage btw

[crude girder]

See my problem here is that you are right that the Utahraptor shouldn't really be a threat without pounce, and yet you are opening the possibility for it to still manage it

[barren zephyr]

You seem to forget that a Utah is also still very manouverable

[crude girder]

Like we don't want Utah's nipping rexes until they die, they should have to pounce when they are that out matched, why even give them the opportunity to kill them otherwise?

[tepid gate]

As in - it's funny that you're saying that Evrima is going to be like legacy with this idea that big animals will be so durable against the smalls when it's the exact opposite

[dapper mirage]

Exactly. If a t rex cannot prevent a utah from landing FORTY bites on it, yes, it absolutely deserves to die to that utah.

[crude girder]

Yeah but if the Utah is refusing to use its pounce vs a 9 ton opponent, that Utah doesn't deserve to win

[dapper mirage]

again

i am not taking into account special abilities. im making a generalized statement on how primary attack damage should scale

[crude girder]

"But it refuses to use pounce" isn't a good arguement, otherwise we should buff stego so it can bite Deino's to death because it refuses to tail jab

[barren zephyr]

Utah's primary attack shouldn't be "bite hurr hurr"

[crude girder]

yeah, it's 40 mistakes, cool

so what, should it also down a Brachi in 40?

Because that Brachi would have to fuck up real bad to get bitten 40 times in a row since every attack is a 1 tap

[barren zephyr]

Just wanna say, Utah with 250 N would 2 shot another Utah

[crude girder]

Not if we give Utah 5k hp

[dapper mirage]

big sauropods are an outlier since theyre so stupidly massive and probably not even playable. im focusing on dinos that are confirmed playables

[barren zephyr]

Lolö

[barren zephyr]

Cama

[dapper mirage]

cama isnt confirmed

[crude girder]

Okay but if we balance Utah around havin 250 bite force, how much HP does something like a Troodon need then? 200?

Every dinosaur is confirmed playable

Maybe not all on the official servers, but all will be treated as playable so you can enable them and have a balanced creature

Official server might for example turn off Maia, but Maia is still playable in the game at large

[dapper mirage]

troodon is significantly smaller than a utahraptor

[barren zephyr]

Utah in no world should do 250 N my guy

[crude girder]

Yes but by dramatically increasing the damage of Utahraptor, we are forced to dramatically upscale the hp of smaller animals

[dapper mirage]

and my proposed threshold was anything "reasonably sized" which is utah and larger

[dapper mirage]

please read where i said "arbitrary numbers"

[barren zephyr]

So then what are the actual numbers you'd give it

[dapper mirage]

we are using numbers for the sake of the discussion, not what they should actually be

[dapper mirage]

it depends on a ton of factors

[barren zephyr]

Like

[dapper mirage]

we're literally just using hypotheticals rn

[crude girder]

But yeah I don't see the merit there, espeically since Utahraptor is so puny

Like if Utah is reasonably sized, is Allo massive?

Cause Allo is generally regarded as like, the mid sized carnivore

[barren zephyr]

If you give Utah high dmg why even use their pounce when they can zip around everything with their superior speed and agility and just bite them to death

[crude girder]

Yeah a Utah which can 40 shot a rex is a utah which can like, 5 shot a Teno

unless everything is given around the same hp

[dapper mirage]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/604816349243506688/935357153361948772/mid_with_sucho.png?width=1075&height=277

[barren zephyr]

Mid sized animals

[tepid gate]

That makes Allo look like a behemoth

[crude girder]

My point is that Utah is generally regarded as a small carnivore, so I don't know why you are thinking it should be able to threaten the largest land carnivore in any significant way with its bite

[tepid gate]

I'm failing to see why Utah should be able to bite bigger things to death either

how does that make the game better?

[dapper mirage]

would it be better if i used cerato as an example instead

[crude girder]

Also this is totally ignoring the impact on the rest of the animals, or on Utah's own pounce

[barren zephyr]

No

[dapper mirage]

because you are not understanding my basic point

[crude girder]

You wanted to get rid of Mass = hp and inflate bite damage

however I fail to see how that's a good idea when it just rapidly begins to fuck the balance

[tepid gate]

^

[barren zephyr]

When Carno had 350 N of dmg NOBODY used the charge because biting things to death was just objectively better

[crude girder]

We give Utah 1000hp, now Carno needs like 3000, Dryo needs like 500, etc

[dapper mirage]

That's when you buff HP

[tepid gate]

(charge was also arguably worse at the time)

[barren zephyr]

But that is fucking ridiculous

[dapper mirage]

ok

[crude girder]

So if we are buffing Hp to keep up with damage.... why buff either in the first place?

It just gets us back to square one

[dapper mirage]

two reasons

1. Give more leeway when making stats
2. to make biting things as a carnivore have a significant effect at chipping away at an opponent's hp

think about it

[crude girder]

why should biting have a significant effect when it's a free attack?

[barren zephyr]

If you buff dmg and HP nothing will change, it'll stay the exact same way it is rn

[tepid gate]

But... why? why should biting something many times your size have a significant effect on it?

That's just stupid and immersion breaking

[dapper mirage]

the five mid tier carnivores (bary, cera, carno, allo, alberto) are all pretty much going to be forced to be within the 150 to 400 bite damage range curently. none of them can go higher because it would be absurd.

[crude girder]

Also we have plenty of leeway as it is with making stats, mass = hp isn't as limiting as people think because we can just adjust damage numbers

[barren zephyr]

Cera is in no way a mid tier lol

[tepid gate]

Yea Cerato is a midget

[crude girder]

And why is that a problem? They'd be relying on their other tools anyway

[barren zephyr]

Cera is a pseudo-mid like Teno.
And Carno..well..carno walks the fine line of both

[crude girder]

the primary bite is just a generic "NYEH" type of attack

the actual meat and potatoes is the special abilities

[dapper mirage]

that doesnt mean primaries should be useless??

[crude girder]

They aren't

[tepid gate]

they aren't

[crude girder]

they just aren't useful against larger opponents

[dapper mirage]

utah's kinda is rn

[crude girder]

Utah's bite is still a good tool vs same size and smaller

[tepid gate]

They aren't "that useful" against larger opponents

[tight oxide]

Im back from the spirit realm guys

[dapper mirage]

but why force things to use only one attack in a fight

[crude girder]

it's just not your go to tool vs significantly larger animals

[dapper mirage]

i do not get that logic at all

[tepid gate]

The game doesn't force you to use only one attack

[crude girder]

Generally you aren't forced into only using one attack, unless it's a niche case

[tight oxide]

How much does its bite do against pachy body?

[crude girder]

like utah taking on rex, its pounce is the only hope in hell it has or taking on such an animal

[haughty folio]

The fuck kind of numbers heresy did I just walk in on

[tight oxide]

Like % wise

[tepid gate]

it only tells you that only this attack will do something noticeable to a really big game

[barren zephyr]

Why use the normal bite when you can use alt bite? Why use alt bite when you can use pounce?

[crude girder]

Not a whole lot, I haven't measured in a while tho

[barren zephyr]

Teno alone has so many different attacks to choose from and, I use them all

[tight oxide]

Stam be like

[tepid gate]

11% iirc

[barren zephyr]

Biting things is great if you're chasing something

[tight oxide]

So 10 bites kills?

[tepid gate]

Yeh

[tight oxide]

Hol up...

[haughty folio]

55 damage into 500 HP, you can do the math

[tight oxide]

What

[crude girder]

Utah vs Dilo will have the Utah using all of its attacks quite frequently

but as the Utahraptor starts taking on larger and larger opponents, you'll see it rely more and more on pounce

[tight oxide]

Im just wondering percent wise on pachy side

[barren zephyr]

How heavy is Dilo on Nova's chart

[crude girder]

700 iirc

[tepid gate]

700kg

[barren zephyr]

Oh jeez, a pounce will absolutely melt that things bleed

[tepid gate]

It actually kind of dwarfs Utah

[tight oxide]

I dont see current utah being equal to dilo imo rn

[haughty folio]

You can take 10 bites before dying. You'll be on death's door on the 9th

[tepid gate]

Current Utah would murder it with pounce as Idnod pointed out

[crude girder]

Dilo has the advantage in the 1v1, but Utah can punch up better and harder thanks to pounce

If you can dodge the pounce anyway lol

[tight oxide]

How much dmg does pounce do per tick

[barren zephyr]

Ngl I think a single pounce might be able to end a Dilo

[crude girder]

Even bucking would be really cripplingly painful if the Dilo keeps moving

[tight oxide]

Nah maybe bleed yes

[tepid gate]

Enough to bleed out a Dilo

[barren zephyr]

That's what I meant

[crude girder]

if it stands its ground, it might be able to survive it

[tepid gate]

Dmg is irrelevant

[crude girder]

but if you are running? You're dead

[tight oxide]

Just the tick though how much dmg?

[tepid gate]

Haven't tested it

[haughty folio]

We don't have good estimates

[tight oxide]

Rip

[crude girder]

Bleed damage varies greatly, it's kinda impossible to get a good measurement without debug tools

[barren zephyr]

I mean tbh, the Utah then just regains its stam with that good stam regen and pounces you again and again

[tight oxide]

How to make utah god

[haughty folio]

For starters we aren't outright given values.

[crude girder]

I mean we don't know what extra bullshit the Dilo might be packing

[tight oxide]

Give infinite stamina

[barren zephyr]

True

[crude girder]

It does have Venom

[haughty folio]

Two attritional predators fight

[tight oxide]

Dilo just brining drugs onto utah

[tepid gate]

Also regarding this whole "biting Rex to death" idea - that's probably just not happening when trample is in the game, the moment you run up to it to bite it you will just get squished by the trample

[barren zephyr]

Okay but genuine question, who here thinks bleed should do..more?

[crude girder]

Really the only thing yall need to know is don't run around while bleeding unless you wanna die

Define more

[barren zephyr]

Like, just have more effects on something?

[tight oxide]

Hope trample doesnt glitch pounce

[crude girder]

because I agree if you mean it should be more impactful, but I disagree if you mean it should be a higher value across the board

[barren zephyr]

No, more impactful

[crude girder]

Tho there does also reach a point where bleed is already crippling in some cases

[tight oxide]

I wish utahs could actually tell when they put enough bleed on something

[barren zephyr]

Like an Idea I had was, the lower something is on blood the more stamina they consume on all actions

[unborn quail]

[tight oxide]

That way bigger game can be easier in a way

[crude girder]

Body fracture already has that covered, I've seen some proposals for bleed locking stamina directly, still on the fence about that idea tho

[tight oxide]

Just smell the bleed lvl idk

[tight oxide]

Makes sense ngl

[barren zephyr]

Tbh I think body fractures should go from stamina to just doing slight DOT

[crude girder]

That was the OG bleed idea on Trello iirc, the stamina drain thing

[unborn quail]

Cry Harder, you wont stop me

[barren zephyr]

Body fractures rn seem very useless

[tight oxide]

If you're bleeding out to death you're gonna not be running as fast or long

[crude girder]

Eh, I'd rather save DOT for other things

I'm fairly convinced it's just not set up correctly, since it should be fucking your stamina when affected

[tight oxide]

Can we pls talk about how pachy runs full speed even when 2 fg utahs are pouncing

[crude girder]

Utah pounce doesn't slow things down, shit happens

[tight oxide]

No strugle on pachy animations

[barren zephyr]

Pouncing in general should slow things down imo

[tight oxide]

Just runs like utah pounce doing nothing Xd

[barren zephyr]

cough 2 Utahs pouncing a pachy should pin it cough

[haughty folio]

That's one hell of a balance nightmare in the works

[tight oxide]

I wish dinos had a animation when getting pounced

[crude girder]

Yeah but if you think pouncing is a pain right now, wait till you see how buggy cooperative pins would be

[tight oxide]

Aye man if devs were fine coding pachy stun locking then...

[barren zephyr]

I only think dismount is a pain

[crude girder]

someone grows 1 tick while pouncing and transitions from the latch to the pin and everyone falls under the ground

[unborn quail]

👃 I smell pounce improvement and pounce counterplay discussion

[crude girder]

You do know that's a bug right?

[tight oxide]

Pounce legit turns slow mo at slightly higher pings lmao

[tight oxide]

I hoped it was

[haughty folio]

I don't like that either. I am perfectly capable of getting angry about both instances of imbalance

Now, show me the fucker who proposed being able to kill Rex in 40 bites

[barren zephyr]

Also, why does pin do less dmg than latch?

[tight oxide]

Untune pachy a bit and maybe stop teno one shot utahs?

[unborn quail]

It doesn't?

[tight oxide]

Head shot does

[barren zephyr]

Teno doesn't 1 shot Utahs on body hit. And Pachy isn't overtuned, just..bugged

[barren zephyr]

Yeah..A small area to hit

[tight oxide]

Im saying head shot but body might as well be oneshot

[barren zephyr]

Body doesn't 1 shot

[tight oxide]

Get stunned and another slam

[tight oxide]

I just said might as well be

[barren zephyr]

Tbh the tailslam imo shouldn't do any dmg at all

[tight oxide]

Eh

Teno mains will cry lol

[barren zephyr]

Should be used as utility not outright murder weapon

[tight oxide]

Unless kick gets gud

[haughty folio]

Tail murdering small gits is fine

Tail murdering large ones is not

[barren zephyr]

Kick should get abit of a range increase, medium fracture dmg and in general a dmg buff imo

[haughty folio]

Counterpoint

Kick becomes bleed tool, claws get bleed buff

[tight oxide]

Eh

Claw not sure ngl

[barren zephyr]

Counterpoint to the counterpoint
If they want a dmg tail slam they should add the running one

[haughty folio]

Encourages predators to not try and engage prolonged fights

[barren zephyr]

Teno claw bleed is actually pretty good

[tight oxide]

Utah whole point ngl

[haughty folio]

Yes

[tight oxide]

Keep the fight going for as long as you can

[barren zephyr]

I just don't like how tailslam rn can like do everything

[tight oxide]

True

Tailslam is too good that it outshines all of teno moves

[unborn quail]

I despise it for that reason and the insanely limited range of attack for what was implied as a crowd control tool

[barren zephyr]

High dmg/dps ✅
Long range ✅
Stun / Knockdown ✅

[tight oxide]

Why use kick when tail slam is easier to land and stronger

Lmao

[barren zephyr]

This is honestly what I'd do with Teno

[unborn quail]

Knocking down the damage in exchange for allowing it to cover more of its flanks/sides and serve as an actual crowd controlling tool

Turn kick into its main damage dealer in conjunction with claws

profit

[tight oxide]

Pachy turn speed nerf a bit?

[trail mesa]

It’d be cool if teno focused more on specializing against fighting groups of animals

A real crowd controller

[unborn quail]

Wrong way to nerf it until we see how it preforms with the major bugs plaguing it fixed

[barren zephyr]

Lower the dmg to the tailslam in general..Maybe like..50 but keep the stun/knockdown but decrease the stam cost
Increase the range of the kick slightly and buff the dmg(also give it medium fracture dmg) but increase the stam cost(also get rid of the knockdown. Stun can stay)
Add the running tailslam

[civic carbon]

why would you nerf its turn

[unborn quail]

Pachy is in a weird spot because its entire balance is plagued with bugs atm

[tight oxide]

What nerfs would you do pachy if you could at all

[civic carbon]

none, considering its actual mechanic is bugged and we dont know how it functions outside of it

[barren zephyr]

Recovery of missed headbutt

[tight oxide]

Even slight changes

[unborn quail]

None until I've seen how it does without the game breaking bugs

Canceling attacks being the main issue

[tight oxide]

Like fixing fractures on tail hits

[unborn quail]

Aye, a bug

[haughty folio]

At best I'd personally split ram damage into raw and knockdown damage of equal value

[unborn quail]

You shouldn't be cc'ed via your tail in the first place

[civic carbon]

i wanna see how it preforms without bugs

maybe fix the fact that a tap charge is just as good as a full charge in some cases

[tight oxide]

Just make pachy do 100% of fracture and 0% dmg ggez pachy can break legs and run

Jk

[haughty folio]

But yeah, better to see how it works without bugs before trying more

[unborn quail]

The only thing I would change regardless of bugs or not right now is carnos turn in place rate, as even w/out the bugs, a carno forced to stand in fight is practically defenseless due the turn radius

[tight oxide]

What does cc stand for

[civic carbon]

crowd control

[haughty folio]

Crowd Control

[unborn quail]

crowd control/stuns/staggers/knockdown

[tight oxide]

Makes sense now

Utah cc

But working together to drag bodies woud be fun

[barren zephyr]

Only thing I'd change with Pachy is making the missed headbutt recovery a little bit longer

[tight oxide]

Yes pls

[civic carbon]

i'd mess around with tap charge and fully held charge

[tight oxide]

I would love more end lag ngl

[barren zephyr]

Cuz I really hate the "Haha lol, gonna ignore punish wib alt attakk"

[haughty folio]

Again, probably best to wait for the bug fixes to see how it works with the stats and mechanics cooperation

[tight oxide]

Utah chilling with 3 second pounce endlag while pachy chilling with 1 second endlag

[barren zephyr]

A pachy missed its headbutt, now the Utah has the perfect chance to go and pounce i- And you just got alt attacked and knocked down

[tight oxide]

True

[barren zephyr]

The actual time of them is the exact same. The thing is, utah is in the air for much longer than the pachy

[tight oxide]

2 utahs are needed for pachy fights but even then getting a good pouncr is hard

[barren zephyr]

Also make the dismount aimable via keys, not cam

[tight oxide]

Eh im fine with cam

But maybe expanding on pounce as a mechanic would be nice

Like swapping sides on a dino to avoid 3rd part hits or walls?

Bracing agaislnst buck?

[barren zephyr]

I'm not

[tight oxide]

We all arent fine with something tbf

[barren zephyr]

Because then the animal you're latched onto just turns in a circle, fucks with your camera completely WHILE bucking and murdering your stamina, and now because of that you land right next to them and get slaughtered

I really have something against that

[tight oxide]

Now i see your point

Could work

But might bug easy

[trail mesa]

I’d like to see tenonto become more versatile and less specialized when it comes to combat. Should be less of an extreme 1-1 brawler, more of a versatile crowd controller that also has escape options

[barren zephyr]

Like, when a Utah pounces me as a Pachy I just turn in a circle inwards(to the side they are latched onto) and buck, and then I alt attack once they hop off right next to me = dead Utah

[tight oxide]

I might say make target not turn as fast when being pounced due to imbalanced

[civic carbon]

i mean atm juvie utahs pouncing are a bit uh

[barren zephyr]

👆

[civic carbon]

not op but, yknow.

take forever to buck off, keep your bleed going

no idea why they take forever to buck off, but they do.

[barren zephyr]

Cuz babies have more stam

[civic carbon]

still shouldnt be taking as long to buck off an animal that small

[tight oxide]

Maybe improve on Utahs pounce if you dont want to keep it as a one trick pony

How about letting pouncing Utahs be able to swap sides on a dino by going over their back to dodge a incoming 3rd party attack or wall. This move should cost 10% stamina since pouncing already takes heavy stamina intake. Key for move could be v or alt rmb/lmb
Also to add some counterplay against bucking for utah maybe let it just hold on and stop biting the target to brace against a buck. This should heavily reduce incoming stamina hits. This change should make it so holding rmb will simply let you hold on to the dino not taking stamina and holding lmb with rmb will cause the normal pounce

A old suggestion

[barren zephyr]

I also feel like the lighter something is compared to Utah the more stamina it should take to buck them off

[tight oxide]

Plssss

[civic carbon]

i mean buck atm is flawed

in general

[barren zephyr]

Like, a Pachy should drain hella stam when bucking a Utah

[tight oxide]

I would just say let utahs brace against buck for more counter play

But eh

[barren zephyr]

On the other hand, a single Utah also should drain its stam alot faster when being bucked by something like Stego

[trail mesa]

Juvi Utah pounces are the most annoying thing ever

[civic carbon]

ye

[tight oxide]

Does no dmg tho

[civic carbon]

again

[tight oxide]

Lmao

[civic carbon]

takes forever to buck off, keeps you bleeding lol

[trail mesa]

Because when you kill a few adults and are still dealing with the rest of the members, they just respawn and harass you, also prevent you from sitting down

[tight oxide]

I mean they are oneshot

[civic carbon]

also wastes your stam

[tight oxide]

They are slower

[civic carbon]

because for some reason it uses up a shit ton of stam to buck off one thing

[tight oxide]

Respawn timer problem

[trail mesa]

You literally can’t sit down when a baby Utah pounces you

[tight oxide]

Its great

[trail mesa]

And they force a standup

[civic carbon]

i mean the issue still stands lol

[tight oxide]

Let utahs have their fun in this herbivore meta

Even if its just as juvies

[civic carbon]

cringe

[tight oxide]

Yes

[trail mesa]

It’s not fun for anyone else, even other carnivores

[tight oxide]

Me when carno ram

[barren zephyr]

It's fun for the Utah

[tight oxide]

Me when pachy stun

[trail mesa]

Being a nearly two ton meat truck and getting forced to stand up and take the little rat chewing on me for some reason

[tight oxide]

Me when teno do funny stun spam

[civic carbon]

idk bro, combat is heavily focused around stam and yet carnis get a free attack with no stam cost

[tight oxide]

Me when stego exists

[tight oxide]

Bite?

[civic carbon]

meanwhile herbis have to use stam costing attacks just to do serious dmg

[tight oxide]

Bite?

Carnis legit have bite and a stam move

Pretty fair ngl

[civic carbon]

and their bite is super reliable and their main move lmao

[tight oxide]

Cus they evolved to hunt? And eat?

[barren zephyr]

Not really for Utah tbh

[civic carbon]

im not disagreeing herbis have it fairly good now, but carnis legit get a good and reliable move with no drawback

[tight oxide]

Nothing is wrong with carni bite

[civic carbon]

im, not disagreeing

[tight oxide]

Phew

[barren zephyr]

Herb bites are also pretty useful tbh

[civic carbon]

just saying combat as a whole is super against herbis

considering again, stamina based

[barren zephyr]

I disagree

[tight oxide]

For a second i thought you were saying carni bites should all get nerfed

[civic carbon]

no

[tight oxide]

Had me worried

[barren zephyr]

Imo if anything combat works against Carnivores

[tight oxide]

True

I dont think we should care if bite has no drawbacks

Your rmb or alt are stronger

Plus try biting irl for a bit

No draw backs

[civic carbon]

combat is stam based
all of herbis good and reliable attacks cost stamina
carnis reliable and good attack costs no stamina

[tight oxide]

Unless broken tooth

[civic carbon]

i dont see how its not against herbis in terms of that lmao

[tight oxide]

Ram and pounce and lunge?

Legit use stam

[civic carbon]

are you reading what im saying

[tight oxide]

You're comparing bite with herbi specials

[barren zephyr]

Tbh the only bites that are "good" is Carnos

[civic carbon]

deino

[tight oxide]

Im confused

[barren zephyr]

Can a Deino run you down?

[civic carbon]

utahs is whatever

[paper oriole]

That might change with ceratopsians, those beaks should hurt. Are they supposed to make dryo's fingernail mouth or stego's flimsy little beak hurt?

[tight oxide]

Deino just avoid water

[civic carbon]

i mean its still reliable is what im saying

[tight oxide]

You can go to shalows

[barren zephyr]

If you die to a Deino biting that's on you

[civic carbon]

im, not saying that lol

think you guys arent understanding what im saying

[tight oxide]

Im not

Explain a bit more pls

[trail mesa]

They can guard which is pretty annoying

[tight oxide]

Megapacks be like

[trail mesa]

Mud pools were a mistake

[tight oxide]

Yup

I miss river mud

[civic carbon]

carnivores reliable attack has little to no drawback, it costs no stamina.
all of herbivores good and reliable attacks cost stamina.
combat is heavily stamina based.

[tight oxide]

Legit let my deino get more dinos

[barren zephyr]

All these herbivores have stam consumtion, yeah, but they have all the very strong shit(stuns, knockdowns, fractures, very high dmg, etc) right at the get-go without any former factors being taken into account(needing to run to be able to stun something needing to move at certain terrain in water to have your ability be the most effective)
The exclusion would be Utah, but even that can be very easily countered by simply holding E, turning in a circle and then smacking the bastard the second he's down on the ground again

[civic carbon]

the only two herbis that dont fall into that are dryo and hypsi lol

[tight oxide]

Herbis can bite too

[civic carbon]

i know

[tight oxide]

No draw backs

[barren zephyr]

And bites for Herbis are also pretty useful

[civic carbon]

you arent getting what im saying

[tight oxide]

Because we dont!

[barren zephyr]

I am, but I still disagree

[tight oxide]

I think bites are fine

No changes needed

[civic carbon]

we arent saying they arent

[low canopy]

hit and run tactics have historically been the most efficient way of fighting in this game

[civic carbon]

im literally just saying combat is kind of against herbivores lol

[tight oxide]

Well actually it was ass riding

But go on

[tight oxide]

Cc go brrr

[low canopy]

depends on match up really, if you had turn better than your opponent or not

[civic carbon]

my guy

[paper oriole]

Not really because herbis can punish their attackers hard enough right now

[tight oxide]

Look at stego lmao

[low canopy]

big stuff with powerful attacks always flops over to hit and run

[civic carbon]

its only good attack costs stamina.

[tight oxide]

Spino in evrima might face tank some stuff

Or rex maybe

[tight oxide]

Ooooh

I see what you mean

[civic carbon]

im not saying bites should have stam costs or whatever, im just pointing out that combat is just, super against stuff that primarily use stamina based attacks

[tight oxide]

Thing is

[paper oriole]

If they were both equal in strength but carnis had the bite advantage still then there would be a point, but currently herbivores are able to severely punish their attackers which makes it fine. Once a current herbi lands one of their attacks they are able to combo

[tight oxide]

Everything can bite

[civic carbon]

i dont even know how you'd really fix it, but its whatever

[tight oxide]

Herbivores have to know when to use their stam using moves

And utah bite is only 55n

Pounce is a big stam using move

[barren zephyr]

You also forget that Carnivores most "reliable" attacks need an additional thing added to them before becoming actually good.
A carno has to run for 3 entire seconds to be able to charge
A deino has to walk on the water ground to be able to get the most range for its lunge
A utah can still be countered by simply holding E, slaughtering its stamina, messing with its camera while turning and then smacking the bastard when he hops off because dismount is unreliable.

Stego can just press rmb once in a direction and instantly do 1250 dmg with little stamina. Teno has TWO abilities that instantly deal CC and heavy dmg without and further additions other than "press rmb and rmb + alt"
Pachy has it even worse because with that thing it's just, hold rmb for lots of dmg, stuns/knockdown AND lots of fractures, press it once for a small second with the same effect but diminished(aside from stun) AND press lmb + alt to stun/knock something down and do decently high dmg.

[tight oxide]

Carno needs some changes to ram

[civic carbon]

ram sucks ass atm lol

dont even need to use it to do anything meaningful

pounce is, whatever, utah is kind of focused around that
and deino has the highest bite dmg ingame

[barren zephyr]

A Teno can just stand still, hold rmb + alt and instantly do high dmg, with long range AND high dmg + cc, Carno can't use rmb at all without running for 3 entire seconds

[tight oxide]

Stego does more dps?

[civic carbon]

when deinos are fighting stegos, even if they lose, they're going to be using lmb, not rmb too

[tight oxide]

Plus 500n can let something like carno run away if bitten

[barren zephyr]

They actually use rmb + alt

[civic carbon]

does that even work?

[tight oxide]

Something slow as deino should bite hard

[barren zephyr]

Because normal bite already has a small cooldown in of itself

[civic carbon]

every deino i've fought just uses lmb, and maybe an rmb if im facing them

[barren zephyr]

stego doesn't really have that either

[civic carbon]

stego is also forced to use one attack kerk

[barren zephyr]

Stego just turns its side abit and spams rmb, does mega shit ton of dmg

[tight oxide]

Stego needed another move back in update 2

To help with utahs back then

But uh... you know

[barren zephyr]

And Stego bite is also pretty good, so is Pachys, and even Tenos

[civic carbon]

tenos is the only reliable bite

[tight oxide]

Exactly

[barren zephyr]

So is stegos

[tight oxide]

Eh

[civic carbon]

stego is too slow, and pachy you're better off just ramming or alt ramming

[barren zephyr]

And even Pachy

[tight oxide]

Stego bite really hurts utahs

Pachy not sure

[barren zephyr]

Bites on herbs also allow for alot of baiting

Only bite a few times, now they think you only know how to bite, so they get cocky. Then? BAM, claw right to the face, impaled by a tail, WHACKED by a pachy

[civic carbon]

never seen that happen

[barren zephyr]

It happens alot more than you think

I use that quite frequently

[civic carbon]

i only really play stego. so usually just walking towards people baits them in enough

[barren zephyr]

I chase utahs and bite them then they think I only know how to bite and start trying to facetank me, so I just alt attack them and then murder them.
Same works for Teno, only that they then try to usually go behind me abit, in which case I just tail slam them into the face

[tight oxide]

I learned as carnivore in this meta is to never get cocky

Even bad players can surprise you

[barren zephyr]

I use Stego bite on Utahs that only sit at my face, cuz then they get cocky too and then I whack them when they try to bite my head

It works even better if you lose abit of your stam but conserve some

[tight oxide]

Still saying stego needs blood pool nerf

[barren zephyr]

Cuz then they get even more cocky cuz they think: "Oh! They're outta stam!" whack

[tight oxide]

Or delete

[barren zephyr]

Or just make dismount more reliable

[civic carbon]

bucking in general needs fixing

[tight oxide]

Suggested that and ppl hated it

Cus apparently uta dismount shouldnt be free dmg against target

[civic carbon]

me when 4 utahs on adult stego takes a little more then a quarter of stam

[barren zephyr]

The thing is

[tight oxide]

Idk man utah dismount needs halp

[barren zephyr]

As long as a Stego can just buck + swing spam nothing will change

[tight oxide]

Its so unviable against 2 dinos

[barren zephyr]

3

[tight oxide]

You will never find a solo dino

[barren zephyr]

No wait, 4

Teno, Stego, Pachy, Deino

On Carno it's actually pretty good

[tight oxide]

Ah yes 90% of my stamina in just 2 seconds

[civic carbon]

not two seconds lol

[tight oxide]

Ik

[civic carbon]

and its more then 90 if its more then a quarter of stam

[unborn quail]

it takes 7 seconds to dismount a utah via buck

[tight oxide]

Idk man maybe its lag

[civic carbon]

what

[tight oxide]

Cus i lose massive stam in such short time

[barren zephyr]

For now I'd make dismount aimable via keys instead of cam and see how that goes

[civic carbon]

i want bucking to actually be not detrimental to the prey item

[tight oxide]

Might have to wait 3 months for that wish

[barren zephyr]

What do you mean?

[tight oxide]

Isnt bucking good?

[civic carbon]

literally uses so much stam trying to throw a utah off

and this applies to all animals, not just stego lol

[barren zephyr]

Hmm

[civic carbon]

unless the animal is pachy sized or smth, it shouldnt be using a shit ton of stam to throw off 1 utah

[barren zephyr]

I have a few solutions?

[civic carbon]

yeah, just cut back on stam drain

[barren zephyr]

For bucking:
The heavier the thing the Utah is pouncing is, the more stamina the Utah itself will lose and the slower the stam the prey will use
If more Utahs latch on at once, the stam drain of the animal is slightly increased, while for the Utahs it's slightly decreased

Also, allow animals to knock Utahs off with environment again but only if they you're running them full speed into the object
Make dismount aimable via keys. Not camera

[trail mesa]

Bucking needs a rework

[barren zephyr]

I.E. A Stego may only need 3 second to buck off 1 Utah
And maybe 4 for 2, etc

A pachy on the other hand may take 5-6 seconds to buck off a single Utah
And longer for 2, etc

[unborn quail]

Bucking and pounce in general need a tlc

[tight oxide]

Yes

[barren zephyr]

But how would we do it.

[tight oxide]

Rework pounce = best update

And buck ig

[barren zephyr]

Give suggestions on how to do all that

[tight oxide]

I did

Do i need to repost?

Theres tons of utah pounce suggestions

Like pounce jump off idea

[barren zephyr]

Just gimme a link

[tight oxide]

Maybe improve on Utahs pounce if you dont want to keep it as a one trick pony

How about letting pouncing Utahs be able to swap sides on a dino by going over their back to dodge a incoming 3rd party attack or wall. This move should cost 10% stamina since pouncing already takes heavy stamina intake. Key for move could be v or alt rmb/lmb
Also to add some counterplay against bucking for utah maybe let it just hold on and stop biting the target to brace against a buck. This should heavily reduce incoming stamina hits. This change should make it so holding rmb will simply let you hold on to the dino not taking stamina and holding lmb with rmb will cause the normal pounce

Too lazy to look for the others

[barren zephyr]

Hmm

I like the 2nd idea

The first idea(no offense) seems kinda silly

"Let me just climb up onto this Stego's plates, then go over them, then turn around and climb back down to hold on again"

[tight oxide]

Common sense says

Utah can do it to certain dinos

But i see your point

[barren zephyr]

I mean, the move would have to halt their stamina drain during the animation and switch to the side

[tight oxide]

Cus it takes stam to use it

[barren zephyr]

Cuz like...Imagine you're in this switching animation which would probably take abit of time, lose 10% already and meanwhile take "DOT" to your stam

[tight oxide]

Make it a fast animation?

[barren zephyr]

Ehh

[tight oxide]

Look at utah z walk speed

[barren zephyr]

I dunno, it seems like a hell to do in general

[tight oxide]

True

[barren zephyr]

Like..every animal would need a different side switch anim

[tight oxide]

These are the devs that had trouble with legacy pounce afterall

[barren zephyr]

Tho, I cans see side-to-side switching a possibility

[tight oxide]

They did add animations for dinos

Like stagger

[barren zephyr]

?

[tight oxide]

Getting grabbed

Soo...

[tight oxide]

You made me see so many problems with it that its funny

[barren zephyr]

What I meant with side to side is

[tight oxide]

The akwardness of utah trying to reach over and climb down and turn around

[barren zephyr]

Y'know how Utah can pounce the back side of a stego but also more on the front, if it could move towads the back/the front, I see that possible

[tight oxide]

That would be cool

[barren zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/jinny-jinnytty-climbing-the-fence-gif-23088956

Utah be like

Just gotta chuck my meat chunk over there too just incase

[tight oxide]

LMAO

Lemme just bring this dead hypsi rq

Dont mind me stego

Just taking mah time

[barren zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/fence-fail-gif-7273437

Other Utah be like "AH FUCK I GOT MY LEG STUCK! JARRED! FUCKING HELP!!!"

[tight oxide]

Then proceeds to get the biggest megapack combo ever

[barren zephyr]

Yes

So, that's what I meant with it kinda looking silly

Utah audibly making grunts and heavy breaths while trying to climb over the stego lol

[tight oxide]

You mean purrs

Loud ass idle purrs...

[barren zephyr]

Lol nah, just like breathing heavily

[tight oxide]

But utah purr

Needs to go

[lavish quail]

But it’s cooool

[jovial crow]

Or you git gud with it

[paper oriole]

what

[barren zephyr]

what

[jovial crow]

Carno need 15,that is unfair, not that Utah, a dino made to play with a pack, needs 30 bites

[jovial crow]

Utah takes 1.50 hours to grow and trex will be like 7+ with perfect diet, so 40 bites is fair, it even should be more bites

[paper oriole]

a utah biting a rex would be like a bearded dragon or some shit biting a human. it shouldnt in any circumstance be a successful fighting tactic

[paper oriole]

also carno being a boring playstyle has nothing to do with "get gud with it"

[limber hull]

what is the point of the conversation atm

[paper oriole]

idk he's necroing an old convo lol

[limber hull]

lmaoo

[paper oriole]

a convo that stemmed from pesky's pachy feedback and somehow evolved to "utah cant solo huge animals with bite and that is a problem"

[limber hull]

hmm i see

so stupid

the point is the convo was stupid

[paper oriole]

i remember when utahs and dryos were soloing stegos with bite

i guess some people thought that was balanced

[limber hull]

i remember when stego was literally one of the worst animals because utahs could maul it to death easily and now everyone hates it even tho literally nothing changed but damage/health between species

[paper oriole]

oasis is another reason stegos are cancer now and oasis is one spot on the map where 90% of the cancerous behaviour is quarantined

[limber hull]

truuue

honestly i wish there were GIANT mud pools that were like, out in the middle of nowhere away from resources

dive in there for safety and to mask your tracks but you can't rely on them

these tiny little mud puddles i dont like

[paper oriole]

rain making random mud pools in the future instead of permanent set pools would be nice, and also muddy pits in the place of dried up water sources during droughts

[limber hull]

dude, mud pools should absolutely be correlated to storms

dry up during droughts

[paper oriole]

i hope the current pools are a placeholder because we've got no weather

[limber hull]

make rain bring good things rather than "cool i cant smell anymore" like in legacy

people should look FORWARD to rain honestly

[paper oriole]

if anything rain should only wash away some scents. realistically some smells are enhanced by moisture whole others are rinsed away

but rain making puddles and mud pits and replenishing water sources would make it way more than just a pretty nuisance

[jovial crow]

Bite is the main attact of most large dinos, their jaws are made for the reason of hunting

[paper oriole]

also im sure this wont happen but it would be funny if standing on metal structures during severe weather could get you struck by lightning

[limber hull]

it wont happen lmao, they've stated how much they hate the idea of dying to lightning

[paper oriole]

probably because a total rng death is shitty, however this is basically self inflicted because you'd have to stand on a metal structure for it to have a chance of happening

but yeah it'll probably neve come to be ):

[jovial crow]

Sorry, I'm a dark souls player, I must say that

[limber hull]

that's not even remotely correlated

[jovial crow]

Then just dont play them if you dont like them, like you are already doing

[jovial crow]

Ofc, i'm going to walk 29 mins to this mud pool just to walk other 20 mins to get where I want, oh wait mud pool effects lasts so little that it beenb like I never went to the mud pool

[limber hull]

then make the mud last longer it already is mega short

[paper oriole]

didnt ask for your opinion, it was a comment hours earlier about adding more variety to attacks and had nothing to do with you lmao

[jovial crow]

Or mud pools next to river shallows

[jovial crow]

Oh so I can only talk to people that is talking to me, eh no

[paper oriole]

rando mud lakes around the map would kinda be weird though anyway unless its a biome set for it

[paper oriole]

no, but you shouldnt ping random people from a random conversation hours ago just to add no substance to the topic

[jovial crow]

What oasis needs is more bushes and tree so that it is not 100% safe like It already is

[paper oriole]

oasis needs to not be a damn community garden where every herbi can go for full diets

the mud pit being there is just more gasoline on the fire

plus the shallow water

[urban flax]

@barren zephyr Herbis already cannot cannibalize since they can't eat meat

Killing is not cannibalism

I don't see either how adding a morale system to animals would be any more immersive or better for the game

[paper oriole]

sounds abuseable as fuck

[urban flax]

Just let people kill each other, and don't trust random people with massive spikes on their tails

[paper oriole]

now people can just harass you and if you kill them you get a debuff ezpz i'd troll people with this exploit all the time if it was added

[urban flax]

The abusing part is not the worst imo
The simple fact that this would exist bothers me

[paper oriole]

what about it

[dawn elk]

is there anything being done to address all these blatant and obvious bush hackers?

[paper oriole]

if im trying to play solo and some dipshit starts following me and wont go away and is getting up in my face i have good reason to kill them, ive had to do this before

[urban flax]

On your end ? Nothing
Devs are trying to get rid of hackers, but we haven't got any news regarding that recently

[paper oriole]

it is stupid to punish a player with a debuff for such an act in the first place

also the idea of 'morale' is just plain stupid in a dinosaur game

so?

i understand, and i disagree

this can be abused by mix packers too

to debuff an herbivore so you can attack them

just use a juv stego and get up in the adult stego's business in a fight, if they accidentally kill you then the raptors that were using it now have it ez

see im already thinking of ways to abuse this because it is so easy

people do sacrifices already this is just another reason to do it

also some juvies are faster than their adult stages, what would stop a juvie from just attacking an adult to weaken them and forcing the adult in to killing them, which then applies a debuff

[jovial crow]

@barren zephyr for me the only thing I dont like about your sugestion is that animals dont have moral

[limber hull]

i just hate how carnivores are excluded from this debuff

its another "fuck herbis in particular i guess" suggestion

[paper oriole]

yeah lotta "fuck herbis" suggestions lately lol

most of them arent in the isle

[jovial crow]

Maybe cause carno needs to eat every 5 seca and sometimes you don't Have another option than cannibalism

[paper oriole]

this early in the roster

[jovial crow]

They are clearly superior than carnivores

[paper oriole]

what does that have to do with own killing

[limber hull]

lmao true, wouldnt you want the "superior" animal to be its worst threat to handle higher numbers

[paper oriole]

if this game was realistic utahs wouldnt be springing around like kangaroos on crack so realism should just be thrown out the window. what should be followed is realm of believability

[jovial crow]

You said you have recently seen a lot people complaining about herbivores, so my answer has a lot to do with it

[urban flax]

The game is absolutely not going for realism

[paper oriole]

your "solution" involves herbi on herbi violence and not "herbivores are better"

[urban flax]

Did I ever mention realism in my comments ?

[jovial crow]

What solution?

[paper oriole]

it is bad for quality of life and invites sacrifice trolling

[paper oriole]

bruh

his suggestion

[urban flax]

Right there

The message I mentioned
Whatever, if you're talking about the fact animals don't have morale, it's a matter of "making sense" and not "being realitic".

[paper oriole]

sounds like some shit that belongs in beasts of bermuda

[jovial crow]

But I wasnt talking about that when I responded to your comment

[urban flax]

Dinosaurs are animals tho

[paper oriole]

why the fuck would prehistoric bird lizards have human feelings like morality and guilt

oh no i killed this guy that was harassing me now im not gonna fight that utah pack so well

[jovial crow]

Morale is something only very intelligent animals have, so only humans

[limber hull]

stegos are literally one of the dumbest animals in history they'd give zero shits if they killed the wrong thing

[urban flax]

So what are they ? Dragons ?

[paper oriole]

i feel big sad after those two body droppers ran in to my attack now thos emix packers are gonna get me because i am busy mourning their loss

[urban flax]

Uh what ? Do you know what "animal" or "mammal" even means ?

[limber hull]

not mammal = not animal smh

[paper oriole]

dinosaurs are my favorite plant

no mammals have mammaries and hair

[native dirge]

They were irl and in game lol

[paper oriole]

some animals who arent mammals give live birth

[jovial crow]

But dinos were a kind of drug

[paper oriole]

no obviously dinosaurs are a species of metamorphic rock formation

anyway your suggestion was pretty funny im saving it to my archives

thanks for your contribution

[jovial crow]

Well no but currently yes

[limber hull]

also wtf why does morale = shit like regen and health

[jovial crow]

Only he knows

[limber hull]

"feel real bad about that baby stego i killed, guess i'll let myself die"

[urban flax]

Reminds me of some anime

[jovial crow]

I killed a dog yesterday, I think I have the flu now because of that

[jovial crow]

Was correlation has that with my comment?

Why, it's well writen

Sorry, auto corrector

What did you do?

[tight oxide]

What did you do?!

So why worry??

[jovial crow]

Then?

[tight oxide]

You can talk about your suggestion here

[jovial crow]

Modds dont care

[tight oxide]

How does moral mean so many debuffs

What

[jovial crow]

Yeah, doesn't make sense, is like getting cancer just because you killed a bug

[tight oxide]

Uh oh i kill rat guess im weak now

[steel flower]

@barren zephyr Isle players stop crying about dying to a herbivore for 5 seconds challenge (impossible)

[tight oxide]

Herbis are the meta you gotta admit

[jovial crow]

I can complain to herbivore bullshit

[tight oxide]

Herbis are so overtuned that it isnt funny imo

[steel flower]

Oh Gee, there's 30 herbivores at Oasis ruining the fun for everybody, why would anyone ever want to kill some of them I wonder

[tight oxide]

Eh

Just bring back health lock

[jovial crow]

but the excuse for those debuffs shouldn't be that they have morale, cause they are animals

[tight oxide]

Bruh i had a megaherd actually run down my sub utah

Because i was eating

[steel flower]

And how do you know that those Stegos aren't gonna grow and go at Oasis? Killing them anywhere on the map prevents them from going to Oasis later

[tight oxide]

True

[jovial crow]

Body guarding needs to be fixed before herbivore "cannibalism"

[tight oxide]

Add debuffs or screen effects to stop this nonsene

[echo tiger]

Just yesterday I got body camped by a stego and a tenonto at 2nd swamp. Because I outplayed and killed a baby teno and a stego The phenomenon isn't mutually exclusive to fucking oasis

[tight oxide]

Herbis guarding bodies and cry when they die to doing so

[echo tiger]

When you make herbivores have this much power this is what you get across the board

[jovial crow]

That only happens if they are not stego

Stego is unkillable

[tight oxide]

I get they were going for defense but they went far into offense which is what carnivores should have

Its ironic

You make herbis this strong only to make them better carnivores

[jovial crow]

The only dino of the actual roster that should be aggresive is pachy

[tight oxide]

It only happens when they are alone

10 tenos are kinda impossible unless deino

[jovial crow]

I main carno so I Can't talk about utah

[tight oxide]

Teno be like

[tight oxide]

I main utah

Megaherds make utah bad ngl

You cant pounce without 3rd party hits

[jovial crow]

Can you kill Stegosaurus with only you anda being utah?

[tight oxide]

You need a really good utah pack

Like know your allies

Get a vc

Cus with chat only...

Your pack become idiots

[jovial crow]

I was talking about going alone, obviously stego difficulty decreases when you are not alone

[tight oxide]

Stego impossible alone

You dont do the dps to kill anything

Except pachy

One screw up means death

Carno beats solo utah easily

[echo tiger]

I'd understand with water making you lose blood but your physical health declines from starving and your body does fucking eat itself from the inside out

[jovial crow]

Yeah, herbívores are barely punishable when they have mistakes, but with a carnivoreyou have to play perfect

[echo tiger]

Honestly, and heres my hot take.

Herbivore players need the crutch they're given. It actually makes them better players for the vast majority.

[tight oxide]

I think it has something to do with end lag

Utah pounce endlag takes 1 year to finish but look at pachy

Kinda a wth moment

Teno spamming a move that causes carnos to retreat like its nothing

[jovial crow]

Herbivores rn are better at hunting than carnivores

[tight oxide]

Legit find bush

And ambush a random dino

And herbi stun is just

[echo tiger]

but the thing is right

Before herbis were fine, and then they got way too overtuned.

[tight oxide]

Evrima brought stun while removing arse riding

[echo tiger]

3.75 was a pretty alright balance spot

But they were still hard bodied

[tight oxide]

Utah was rrally bad then

[jovial crow]

Exactly

[echo tiger]

Utah is still bad now.

[tight oxide]

I think update 2 was best balance ngl

[echo tiger]

i agree.

[jovial crow]

Most dinos I eat were carnivores killed by herbivores

[tight oxide]

Utah was strong enough to get things to leave it alone

Carno was a threat

Stego wasnt unkillable

[jovial crow]

Carno needs better stam

[echo tiger]

Dont mention that croc, i had an entire 4 hour argument last night over how unviable it is, it'll forever be non-viable.

[tight oxide]

Maybe but i dont play carno

[echo tiger]

Carno needs better stam and better hunger drain.

[tight oxide]

Let us eat faster pls

[echo tiger]

Alright, what do we wanna argue about deino.

Lets go, im pumped.

It absolutely is now.

[tight oxide]

Well....

Let deino hide in mud pools lmao

[echo tiger]

...or he's just gonna be in the exact same spot as he is in now.

[jagged jewel]

deino is an apex done poorly

[echo tiger]

People wont go to water for fear of being one shotted, quite rightly so.

[tight oxide]

Deino should bite hard as rex if not harder
Fite me

[jagged jewel]

he's supposed to be an apex but he's so fucking unviable

[tight oxide]

Cus stego

[echo tiger]

Cause land.

[tight oxide]

Yes

[jagged jewel]

realistically yeah

[tight oxide]

And shallows

[echo tiger]

Land is literally it's biggest counter and there is fuck all you could do about it.

Dont like your odds as a ungrabbable apex? ok i'm out cya.

[limber hull]

update 2 utah was kinda dumb imho. The damage output on pounce was stupidly good

[jovial crow]

What I really need is that drinking bugs get fixed, I can't tell all the Ttimes a deino killed me cause I tried to drink for 1 min

[limber hull]

i honestly prefer bleed utah lmao

it does do damage tho, just a fuckton of bleed on top. Pounce being a damage tool lead to some fucking garbage shit, like a pack of 4 being able to take out a stego in literally less than a minute

well, yes, you can

[jovial crow]

4 utahs should be able to easily kill a stego, but not in only 1 min

[limber hull]

but its not in less than in a fucking minute

[jovial crow]

I know

[limber hull]

buck is a universal mechanic

so yes

deino can buck

[jovial crow]

You just need to make the stego bleed and then biting him and baiting tail swings so it uses stam

[limber hull]

its a universal mechanic, so yes, deino can also buck

stego without stam = dead stego

[jovial crow]

I never said that

That make more sense

Nit everybody knows that is the strat to take a stego

[echo tiger]

Making waters deep and introducing a drought system is all fine, it still doesn't change the core problems with deino.

It's 1 shot move, the fact you can't react to it and it's just not a very fair playable to interact with for more than half of the roster.

[jovial crow]

Utah Ccounters carno? Nice joke if It is one

[echo tiger]

You can jump as a utah, and teno but thats it

Oh yeah, well i'm just not going to interact with them then.

And i think other players will also not interact with them given they dont wanna be oneshotted.

[limber hull]

oh my god this is the second fucking time this convo has been had today what the fuck

[echo tiger]

I know.

[limber hull]

let me out let me out let me out

[echo tiger]

I just woke up too

YOU'RE NOT IN MY HEAD, NOT IN MY HEAD, NOT IN MY HEAD, NOT IN MY HEAD

But if thats the point then GL, because again most players will find ways and means of circumventing the entire playable.

Look at shallows, look at these obscure rivers and lakes that people have found.

No deinos there, good riddance now i can drink and not lose my prog

Regardless, people complaining about it have a valid case, just scroll up to my argument yesterday if you wanna see my stances on it.

I'm just repeating myself here.

[dawn elk]

Any news if they'll implement a way to report hackers? 4th death tonight to an adult carno on NA1 with ESP. it's really destroying the game for me.

[echo tiger]

Damn

Prolly not honestly, devs dont give us updates so its hard to really know

[dawn elk]

ok, well avoid oasis/south. very obvious and blatant carno hacker just sprinting around snatching juvies from bushes

[echo tiger]

Bruh legit the game's fucked, you have to go to those areas

like as a carno anyway

I've only really ran into ESP once and i killed him so

[dawn elk]

i lost my adult to 3 earlier today, and haven't been able to grow to adult again. keep getting snatched from bushes by carnos with impossible intel

if it were just one I'd have killed him 😛

[echo tiger]

ye

[prisma stump]

It also happened to me, but unfortunately nothing changed when I tried relogging

It seems as I lost all my progression...

[signal beacon]

Skill issue

Also try reloging

@prisma stump

[prisma stump]

Skill issue? I literally wrote that I have already tried @signal beacon

[signal beacon]

Oh. I was too lazy to scroll mb

[prisma stump]

I said it in my text😅

np tho

[craggy terrace]

It was working fine yesterday, and just when I thought there couldnt be anymore problems until the next patch/update

[pearl socket]

why is there like nobody in the EU servers, am i missing something?

[outer sphinx]

does he realise kapro is fucking miniscule?

like i get it looks sick but... bruh

literally a baby deino will fuck the shit out of kapro, its a faster swimmer and more efficient, kapr may be better on land but its got a fuck more to deal with that will kill it no matter what

theres a reason why land crocs only existed when they where the apexes and in weird moments of evolution and history

[manic flint]

Land Crocs just aren't effecient

[outer sphinx]

especially the small ones in this context

and bigger one are kinda like mega but just faster and worse swimmers

[warm flame]

meanwhile raui

[low canopy]

wasnt there one jurassic land croc that was really successful, altough it would overlap hard with mega i guess

[warm flame]

upscale kapro to presto size

[outer sphinx]

he's a... troubled boi....

[outer sphinx]

every time they where succesfull was after a mass extintion and in the beggining when evolution really gave no fucks, but every time as soon the more competent theropods came they quickly fell out of grace

[warm flame]

kaprosuchus is in the size range for a human to wrestle

it looks awesome, but it wouldn't be viable without many changes to its size

ah, so realistic

[outer sphinx]

that kapro is weird, iirc kapro had long legs for its size, and thats a bit bigger i'd say too

[urban flax]

Do we even have leg material for kaprosuchus ?

[outer sphinx]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[icy lion]

Not that I'm aware of

[peak wedge]

So...could kapro literally be a normal crocodile..? If we don't have the legs how do we know it had long legs

[urban flax]

We don't know
We just assume, and I don't really know why

[glass mulch]

@robust cape Just wanna point out that Tapejara is smaller than Compsognathus at only 2 kilograms, it has a wingspan of about a meter and sure is not a mid tier, ark lied to you.

Tupandactylus is a much better candidate

However the helicopter movement can't really look good.

Just make it more mobile, but not full 360 mobility

[paper oriole]

Kapro

Presto better

[signal beacon]

Presto is everything people think kapro is.

[paper oriole]

Exactly

People overestimate kapro so much

Also that tape suggestion do people mix it up with tupa?

[signal beacon]

What has ark done?

[paper oriole]

I could grab a tapejara and slam it to death myself its so small

Fuckin flying tissue paper lmao

[signal beacon]

Although a flying fruit eater would be cool

Tape is just too small though

[paper oriole]

Fruit bat/toucan tupa would be good to see some day

Tape is just a waste of a slot in the ecosystem. Nothing would bother hunting something so small and hard to get

[signal beacon]

And kapro would just be worse deino that might be slightly more competent on land.

[paper oriole]

Kapro would get merked by a single utah

Presto can be a small tier crusher ambusher that kicks a utah's ass

Hes at or a bit bigger than cerato size

[signal beacon]

Honestly a modern African crocodile would be more viable than kapro

[paper oriole]

Gustave kicks kapro's ass

[tight oxide]

Legit 2000 pounds

More viable deino

[echo tiger]

Give me a rauisuchid and more triassic animals.

[paper oriole]

A rauisuchus is possibly coming because of the old database model but tbh a larger pseudosuchian like presto would fare better because raui is a runt

[fiery wraith]

@echo tiger I think they've said some of the dinos don't make sense atm. I don't think they should balance around the roster, but it does make for weird gameplay. Just have to wait for bigger roster and use what we have.

[echo tiger]

Using what we have Is alright for herbivores atm but carnivores are fucking unbearable to play

[warm flame]

that was the point

[warm flame]

I think about everyone in this server could

a better choice for mid tier flier would be ha-

[paper oriole]

NO!!!!11!!!!!

[pure quiver]

As far as I know this only happens with large scale mountains, but it would be neat to see precipitation gathering on one side of the spine and it being almost denied on the other. Pass through the spine to get from the jungle to the desert. If I'm not mistaken I believe the map already does that to a degree...

[manic flint]

Easy way to make an arid area on the map

[robust cape]

yeah i figured ark is kinda a lie but yeah in general we need more flyersss

[manic flint]

Tupa is much larger

[tepid gate]

I kind of wonder why people are putting ❌s on Medic's suggestion about making dodge a universal mechanic for smaller animals. He has a pretty good point and while this isn't some priority, making "jumping to the side" a mechanic specific just to Dryosaurus seems... just weird. There's hardly any reason why some other animals would be unable to do that.

[manic flint]

Probably cause a dodge is a bad ability in of itself and would be a waste on other dinos or smth idk

[tepid gate]

It's a rather niche one but it could actually be useful in certain situations... it's just really nonsensical on Dryo specifically.

An animal like a Utah could possibly try to use that to get away from an ambush by a Deinosuchus. There's really no reason not to consider adding this for the smaller creatures.