general-feedback-discussion

[lavish quail]

Yeah acro sucks

[barren zephyr]

Cherry fills Spino's role as dominant Aquatic Wader,

[lavish quail]

Dw they can fix that with a flat tail and a bigger sail

[last lily]

I'll throw my skeletal body out and collapse as a defense strategy.

[barren zephyr]

It's essentially a Hippo

[lavish quail]

Ugh- 1v47.5???

[barren zephyr]

So having Spino(possibly stronger than Cherry) muddies that

[lavish quail]

Spino stronger

Cause it just looks stronger by default

Have you seen that mf he looks devious and evil

[limber hull]

cherry is an omnivore which is more suited to wading, spino is carnivorous, much bigger and a far more adept swimmer than cherry

[barren zephyr]

This is what the core of my arguement comes from
Culling the roster is an attempt to try reduce playables from stepping on each other's toes so frequently

[lavish quail]

They can be Rivals or something

[last lily]

Cherri is a herbivore/(omnivore???) so that does open some space to EXPERIMENT... but it's still not as bad as say others.. also what Waver said, rip.

[lavish quail]

When it gets that much needed tail change

[last lily]

It'd be a lot easier if our Spino was more aquatic looking in general . . . .. I mean it's kinda cool but... well, makes things a bit of a pain in the butt. As long as it's the slowest Apex I guess..??

[barren zephyr]

Playables competing against other playables is a good thing. As long as they have a clear niche/role kept for them to justify it's existence and relevancy to stand out.
The roster right now doesn't really communicate that, and has constant friction in niche placements rather than settled niche placements

[lavish quail]

Shhh more dinosaur fights the better

[last lily]

Gang Wars

[limber hull]

that's def anky, not spino lmao

[lavish quail]

The gang wars at centre pond are what I live for

[last lily]

You know what I meant. Apex carnivores, rip. ...A Spino moving at Anky speeds sounds painful though.

[limber hull]

spino is def the slowest out of the trio, but the fastest swimmer (obviously)

[barren zephyr]

This is putting aside the issues with apexes too

[last lily]

Deino and Spino balance is gonna be.....interesting..

[barren zephyr]

In an ideal roster, the trio apexes shouldn't exist, as well as some of the herbie ones

Actually if Cherry is a thing, then maybe we can cut Sucho instead of Barry

[limber hull]

why the fuck would you cut sucho because of cherry

[lavish quail]

Ew no fuck you homie

[last lily]

They're mostly fine..... it's mostly Giga being a bastard in terms of destroying the mid tiers each and every time it's been buffed or even added.

[limber hull]

if deino gets the second highest biteforce in the game (which it should), then it certainly will

[lavish quail]

We have like 60 confirmed dinos that’s completely fine

[last lily]

They once gave Giga bonebreak for some ungodly reason . . ... My eyesight's getting worse, help.

[lavish quail]

Especially since like a good 10 just don’t interact with anything but each other

[lavish quail]

Your fine until you see the hat man

[last lily]

I'm reluctant to buff Deino's biteforce too much... Because it 4 shotting mid tiers feels fine(body shot wise)..... but I also would like it to well: hurt apexes with its bites and not tickle them... and I feel like a balance there is impossible unless you give Deino some unique stuff... but give or take.

[barren zephyr]

Large river/lake Wader
There's similarites of Sucho and Cherry frequenting the same spaces since their just big enough to not become instant Deino chow, can hold their own and kill smaller ones. Tad difference is that Cherry is more omnivorous. Barry would be the better candidate actually for carnivours wader. As it's small size encourages it to interact more with terrestials or visit smaller less populated water sources. Shallower water, streams, or small rivers.

[lavish quail]

Ew no

Can we do a quick poll here and now; all in favour of keeping everything other than acro reply to this

[last lily]

Pay $14.99 and I'll let you play the new Rex class. Totally not an annoying and irritating business strategy.

[lavish quail]

Deal

[barren zephyr]

Damn

Sucho and Dilo gonna have to go bye bye

[lavish quail]

Never

Invalid

[outer sphinx]

imo give it 650 damage and fractures

[lavish quail]

Wait post that in feedback I want to see how many people hate that idea

[lavish quail]

True dat true dat

[manic sun]

lmao noway they actually made it a sticker xD

[last lily]

I'm honestly glad/hoping the Isle never does anything similar.... or at least as badly/obnoxiously.

[lavish quail]

Ikr lul

[barren zephyr]

Hmm

[lavish quail]

Srly thou post that in feedback the majority of people want more playable

Especially the part where you cut sucho

[barren zephyr]

Hoping that it does happen is unrealistic
Even though it may be flawed, a bloated roster is what we're getting

[analog phoenix]

fuck playable fix the game more and have a more focused development what we need is for them to stop adding shit fix the base game THEN add shit people be like "OH MAN I CANT WAIT FOR THE NEW ANIMATIONS" no no no fix ur game

[barren zephyr]

I personally want a wider inclusion of new roles than new subclasses

[outer sphinx]

how dare the animators not work on the code of the game

[last lily]

I feel like you can only go so long with just fixes... until you add a new playable, or mechanic and all those efforts go out the window for some unknown reason.

Fixes are nice, but so is progress... ideally both would be very much appreciated.

||As well as the game not breaking or giving 10-15 FPS on computers that can handle the game. That's very important that the game actually.. functions.||

[barren zephyr]

Kinda crazy how adding two playables with entirely new physics and movement mechanics is faster than developing diets bars

If all the work so far has been done on developing just moving humans these past few months I'm gonna be laughing lmao

[last lily]

I honestly don't like how herbivores only eat literally 3 plants... Kinda feel like they could stuff a few more in there for varieties sake. Herbivores usually have a more varied diet anyway.. Unless you're a panda or koala who for all intents and purposes: suck and still haven't somehow gone extinct.

[outer sphinx]

the 2 animals that insist on eating shit that gives 0 energy

[last lily]

Magy is just the Isle's panda.

[barren zephyr]

They're doomed

[last lily]

||Not even the cool kind either like Jack Black.||

[outer sphinx]

magy eats leaves so already better

[barren zephyr]

And human involvement to save them is a vain effort

Let nature do it's thing

[outer sphinx]

lets save useless animals bc looks cute when there are usefull animals that are on the verge of extinction: humanity

[barren zephyr]

We're already doing enough

Save the tigers, or restore the wolves

You know, things that are important to ecosystems

[outer sphinx]

save birds of prey, like in philipines, brazil etc

[analog phoenix]

thats not the point im tryna make they keep adding things to the game when it is so broken am i saying to just stop development for other things HELL NO but the problem is the way the handle the things they keep focusing on the wrong things i feel like something like this shouldn't be so fix what u have then add its simple development process work on things on the side sure but its almost like they are only focusing on shit that doesnt matter...like humans..

[barren zephyr]

Yeah, or the vultures too

[last lily]

I feel like the fact that they're so hush hush about human development isn't helping either....

[analog phoenix]

cmere for a second so i can smack the shit out of u

[urban flax]

"shit that doesn't matter... like humans..."

[barren zephyr]

they dont lmao

[limber hull]

humans matter to me and my mates lmao

[barren zephyr]

what would they do for the ecosystem as of rn

[limber hull]

we've been waiting for humans for almost a year now

[barren zephyr]

just be running free food lmao

[last lily]

Vultures helping out ecosystems greatly vs "Huh? We're not supposed to murder them in excess for some nonsense?"

[urban flax]

For the ecosystem ? Nothing. For the gameplay and the immersion ? Everything.

[analog phoenix]

yeah but why is it priority???huh??? a dino game???? interesting

[outer sphinx]

sharks and snakes be like...

[barren zephyr]

Gameplay and immersion
That serves no purpose to the rest of the sandbox

[limber hull]

its a dino game with humans. that's what it's meant to be for over 5 years lmao

[outer sphinx]

6.5 years*

[barren zephyr]

If humans come out with fully fleshed out mechanics and interactive locales, you can change my mind.

[last lily]

I mean it is a key component of the game??? And also helps us avoid multiple human updates in a row I guess, though I can still see those being a thing...

Sharks can be cute and you can't change my mind

[analog phoenix]

bro the thing that blows me is that none of the shit that i am saying wouldnt even matter if the game didnt take a whole year for a single update bro like holy shit

humans will be fully develpoed in like 5 years

[barren zephyr]

If you want the incomplete horror experience, play hypsi

[analog phoenix]

shiiiit u right

[barren zephyr]

It does the same thing, except Hypsi can spit

[last lily]

Ideally humans should be faster than Dinos to make well.. playable.... but reality says otherwise.

Give humans the ability to spit, and we can get an old western going

with dinosaurs

[analog phoenix]

hahahhahahahh bro can u outrun a fucking raptor???? cars would make more sense

[limber hull]

hypsi doesn't have first person tho and controls nothing like a human, so IDC. Also I do play hypsi a lt

cars are getting added eventually so

[analog phoenix]

but i see what ur saying @last lily

[barren zephyr]

So if they release first person hypsi
It checks out the boxes then

[last lily]

I meaaaaan: give a man enough meth and he can do anything

[limber hull]

i'd play it

[analog phoenix]

ong bro 💀

crack head energy

[last lily]

Skooma or Jet: pick wisely

[barren zephyr]

I'm just simply against the idea of adding more incomplete additions with no mechanics

[analog phoenix]

yeah

[outer sphinx]

they have to start somewhere...

[barren zephyr]

Then develop the mechanics for it

[limber hull]

i genuinely have wanted humans for so long because it seems like the exact kind of thing me and my mates would really want to play. We've been so hyped, even if they're incomplete as shit, to experience this

[analog phoenix]

that would make sense if they actually were adding something TO the humans

[outer sphinx]

thne they need humans added so they have smth for the mechanics to be built for

[analog phoenix]

wtf are we gunna do die

[barren zephyr]

Or reallocate the effort to a more realistic or easier addition

[analog phoenix]

WHAT

WHAT

[limber hull]

IDK man, this way they don't have to pour even more time into humans and can just dev random human shit with the dinosaur stuff

also releasing humans with tons of potentially ecosystem destroying mechanics seems terrifying

[last lily]

That'd also make updates take longer... so it's a feedback loop....having a good update schedule seems to be a rarity....but it'd also be nice to not have them take...well forever...

[limber hull]

leave them simple

[barren zephyr]

Because the rest of the roster gets nothing out of incomplete additions roaming around the game
And the people who want humans get something mediocre or incomplete

[limber hull]

at least for now

[analog phoenix]

ok ok i see what u guys are saying but what will humans REALLY do

[last lily]

Be killed

[analog phoenix]

exactly

[limber hull]

the people who want humans are expecting something incomplete but we're still excited

[last lily]

That's the fun part though... chaos

[analog phoenix]

nah nah dead ass tho 💀

[limber hull]

exactly, I really want to experience Isle horror mode

[outer sphinx]

depends, mercs or tribals

[barren zephyr]

When people want humans, they want a certain bar of mechanics to come with them and release
I have a disdain for the implementation of humans
But even I would have them complete of with featured mechanics

[last lily]

Not as chaotic as a bunch of naked men running from utahs and carnos mixpacking though while the humans are shouting loudly through whatever mic system they have planned.

[analog phoenix]

man i cant wait to play as tribals for a more broken version of ark

[outer sphinx]

but without shitty AI, well at least 50%

[barren zephyr]

I think people just want the novelty of humans being added to the game moreso

[last lily]

Carno AI

[limber hull]

"more broken version of ARK"
the real joke is that you think anything can get worse than ARK

[analog phoenix]

bro u got me there 💀

[last lily]

Ark 2: Electric Boogaloo. They'll find a way, bet.

[limber hull]

and you'd be right, I really really want the novelty of humans tbh

[analog phoenix]

ahhhhh yes death death and more death

[limber hull]

now you're getting why I want it

[analog phoenix]

if i wanted to be depressed i would just play escape from tarkov tho😭

[last lily]

Let me beat a dino with a stick, and I can give myself a few hours of entertainment... Especially if I can find the young carnos, utahs, and stegos.

[barren zephyr]

Yeah, and I don't
Incomplete additions like Hypsi will continue to have my disdain
And I'd criticize that effort not being put to churn out another playable be another piece to the ecosystem the rest of the game benefits from rather

[analog phoenix]

we will have to shoot .45 at a carno running at us full speed with intent to kill

[limber hull]

i can agree on that, but shit like hypsis don't even have close to the mechanics required to be complete

[barren zephyr]

Neither will humans if all they can do is move

[last lily]

I still want some nasty AI lurking about in the jungles and water... ambient AI that's not garbage but adds life.....saw fish cuts your baby Deino in half and refuses to elaborate further

[manic sun]

Imagine u could like knock them out and carry them to your base

[last lily]

IS THAT THE BITE OF 87??

[barren zephyr]

They need a tremendous amount of mechanics to be viable, and then interesting within the ecosystem. They're nearly foreign in design compared to everything else so far. They can barely handle simple and mediocre features as is. Which is where the sentiment of humans being added early comes from.

[analog phoenix]

to do what tho?

[manic sun]

WAS THAT THE BITE OF 69?!?!

[manic sun]

experiements, forgot to add that lol

[last lily]

Terrible terrible things. Like T-bagging.

[manic sun]

and pooping on them

[analog phoenix]

thats real shit right there THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT WOULD TAKE and these guys can barley push out a . update

[manic sun]

making remixes out of their cries and screams

[analog phoenix]

probably breakdancing n shit

[manic sun]

hmm

[last lily]

If they don't 4 call they get the stick

[barren zephyr]

So now we'd have to allocate time handling the developement of diets/gore/nesting/skins/future mechanics. While handling map edits. Adding humans only complicates the mix of progress. Something will have to be put on the back burner otherwise development will only increasingly get slower.

People that want humans will eventually become unhappy after months or possibly years of new features not being added. And slowing the progress to accommodate them, will slow and have the rest of the game suffer for it.

Humans aren't something like a Beipi or Cera
They require much more, almost as much as a new game itself to develop them into fruition properly

[analog phoenix]

real shit bro idk what type of development process they have but to me it just looks like they keep adding more shit to there to do list till the get overloaded and stall its almost like this has happened before 🥱 🤨

[barren zephyr]

The sentiment of them being introduced too early is valid

[limber hull]

some could suggest they were added 6.5 years too late lmao

[urban flax]

Humans are needed as early as possible so the game can be build around them and not require 20 balancing updates after their implementation

Also, they're needed so people stop believing that the game is a dino sim

[barren zephyr]

True, but I put that off as now
I see that as experience of time now
Evrima in my eyes is only 2-3 years old

[analog phoenix]

ahhhhhh ya see that right there THATS the problem my friend thats who the game is meant for its meant for people who want a dino experience HUMANS are more like addition NOT SOMETHING that is core to the game MAYBE THAT WILL CHANGE AFTER 6 years but as for right now this isnt what the game needs we need to focusing on the core audience and core gameplay

[urban flax]

You're just wrong here. You should have read the steam page.

[limber hull]

don't make people wait another 6 years

[analog phoenix]

do u really want to hear them say "this will be added in the future" again again and again

its always the same thing

[barren zephyr]

It goes back to the point of having the development of the Isle halt and slow down to accommodate them.
As developing them is almost as developing an entirely new game. If the development right now is slow, then it will only increase ever more so. Even unbearably.
The dev time doesn't halt just to accomadte Hypsi in this case. And putting dev time Hypsi down the line benefits other playables.

[limber hull]

i dont, that's why i want humans ASAP

[barren zephyr]

All work done on humans only benefit them at least until a certain extant

[urban flax]

Yeah but it's necessary

[barren zephyr]

I'd argue not really

[analog phoenix]

u want to elaborate other than "add humans for the sake of having humans"

[urban flax]

They're like the red team in Team Fortress. Is it not necessary either ?

[barren zephyr]

With the game as it is right now
What is necessary is repairing the ecosystem
Fixing the diets and maps
Fixing the bugs and optimization issues

[analog phoenix]

other dinos are the red team everyone is ur enemy

[barren zephyr]

That's what's necessary

[analog phoenix]

ok so they add humans then what??? u gunna walk around and die sure its sounds fun for a second but u will still have to wait years for any real mechanical development to happen

[barren zephyr]

Adding humans doesn't alleviate or provide benefits to these issues

[analog phoenix]

its not necessary Right Now thats the thing nor should it be as big of a focus that they want it to be but if yall want humans that bad shiiit tf am i gunna do walk over to there hq and beat the shit out of them go ahead and have yall lil broken useless unneeded addition 🥱

have fun with that

[limber hull]

i personally think it falls on the kind of person you are. Me and my mates have been literally so excited all months for this shit and every day we hope they're finally out lmao

[analog phoenix]

lmao i respect that tho

u got me there

[limber hull]

we all know how they're gonna be fucking barebones as fuck

but we plan to get wasted as fuck then scream while being chased by dinosaurs

[analog phoenix]

will they even have textures lol

[limber hull]

i'd assume so

they've been using a placeholder model for a while but I'd imagine they'd have some semblance of an actual human model when they're out lmao

[analog phoenix]

wavepoole u are a chill dude i f with u im finna change sides just cause u funny lmao

[limber hull]

nah believe what ya want mate, everyone has their own shit they like. I just intend mercs to be a fun experience with mates, but if you prefer to go solo, I can see why they serve little promise to you

mercs seem like they'd be far more enjoyable with a ton of friends

[barren zephyr]

Wave's got a point
It does fall on what kind of person you are
I'm in the pool that doesn't want hindering, or incomplete/mediocre additions
Let alone the zero benefit of the current issues or zero benefit of ecosystem exchange

But if they decide to add it, so be it

[analog phoenix]

but naw deadass tho its cool but its a bit disappointing the way that they are describing it rn it just feels like that they could be putting resources in different places anyway ive had enough im gunna go want to kill my self after playing 12.12 update on tarkov🥱 🤷‍♂️

[limber hull]

i'm more on the side of "if it's fun and doesn't actively destroy the entire game, it's chill". If humans came out OP, I'd have a huge issue, but they likely won't

[lavish quail]

Isle players hating on the devs after they played the game for 2900 hours

[last lily]

It comes out of a place of love. For some at least

||Like me and missing the old days of the og Primal Carnage...||

[manic sun]

I saw a guy with 8k hours on BoB writing a wall of text about how shit the devs made the game lol

[urban flax]

@tacit copper 255 people answered to your poll. That's not representative of anything, in a community counting several thousands of people.

[icy lion]

Do you have an evrima server, Mistell?

[tacit copper]

That is the beginning. There are other communities taking votes as well. And yes, I do have an Evrima Server. No one is ever on it. Not even when our legacy has issues, the players flock to other games. Not the Evrima Server

And yes, it does represent the conclusion that players want both and to not remove Legacy.

[silver zephyr]

tbf for most people they dont want to remove legacy now while evrima is garbage, but in the future when evrima is much more stable and has way more content (if we are alive by then)

[tacit copper]

Keeping Legacy isnt hurting anything. Removing it hurts all communities who were founded on legacy.

Removing legacy is literally going to be detrimental to communities founded on Legacy.

[lavish quail]

Just switch them about

evrima main legacy alt

[tacit copper]

Cant have an alt if they remove it.

[lavish quail]

day 104 of the stress test; im struggling to find things to do here

[icy lion]

Then hopefully you understand why asking a community of dedicated legacy players whether they want legacy to be deleted is completely flawed

[lavish quail]

Most players prefer legacy tbf

its better than our buggy hellscape

[outer sphinx]

everything has an expiration date, legacys' is once evrima is... well, not this

[icy lion]

Currently that's understandable

[tacit copper]

We have legacy and evrima players. But this game is founded on Legacy

[icy lion]

However legacy is and will be a poor representation of the developer's goals and, ultimately, a failed product

The devs are removing it eventually for a reason

[tacit copper]

but players are ok with that failed product. While buggy yes, the players till enjoy it.

[lavish quail]

Until we get all dinos tranfered i want it stayin

[icy lion]

Currently, yes. And there will always be a playerbase for it no matter how small it will eventually be. That's not a reason to keep it around

Just like how the devs don't make a separate branch for every evrima update

[lavish quail]

Also evrima has shit optimisation if it isnt able to be played on low end pc's you already lose like 50% of the population

[icy lion]

Which, like everything else, is a WIP and is being worked on

[lavish quail]

Anyone remember tabs? they still have their legacy branch available

[tacit copper]

The reason to keep it, is players like legacy. Majority of the player base is on Legacy. The players like legacy. Just split it into 2 different versions.

[lavish quail]

It also has shit optimisation

[tacit copper]

Players clearly are aware of the bugs and don't have a problem with it.

[lavish quail]

Plus lightsabre tabs was superior

Like eventually get rid of legacy

but only if evrima becomes less of a shithole

[tacit copper]

The devs will literally be removing the foundation. Communities will fall apart. Do the Dev's really not care about communities built around their game?

[icy lion]

That's the plan

[lavish quail]

Half the communities are hackers or clans tbf

no one likes either

[tacit copper]

We remove the hackers, I report them to the dev and they get a game ban

There are more hackers on Evrima than legacy.

[tacit copper]

We dont have too many hackers

[icy lion]

Rotten foundations get removed. It already has, in the form of evrima

[tacit copper]

The foundation isnt rotten is people still play on it. Majority of people who bought the game

[lavish quail]

You cant play legacy without seeing the amount of chinese account stealing servers

[icy lion]

Legacy is still here because evrima is very clearly not in a state to be the main branch

[tacit copper]

I dont have a problem with that.

[icy lion]

That's it

[lavish quail]

Still pretty trash

[tacit copper]

We did in the beginning, but not anymore

[winter mirage]

welp why are you looking at chinese servers?

[lavish quail]

Can you not look at them? if so i want to know how

[tacit copper]

You have a choice to join them or not.

[winter mirage]

we are focusing on EU, AU, and NA servers

[lavish quail]

They are quite literally the majority

[winter mirage]

sadly china isn't supposed to have access to steam so that's a you problem

[lavish quail]

It seems like a legacy players problem

[winter mirage]

nah not really

[tacit copper]

Not really. Perhaps the dev's should fix that.

[lavish quail]

Cant, legacys code corrupt

[winter mirage]

maybe go crawl back to TF2 or something

[icy lion]

There's no need for that.

[lavish quail]

TF2 was good where is my TF3

[winter mirage]

don't be salty then :P

[tacit copper]

Im just sitting here trying to explain why removing legacy is bad. All the evrima players be complaining about something that doesnt affect them.

[lavish quail]

I play both, legacy being removed wouldnt be bad if evrima worked

but it doesnt remotely

[tacit copper]

but even if evrima worked, how is removing legacy bad?

[lavish quail]

also its gonna take like another 2 years for evrima to actually be near completion by the looks of it

[winter mirage]

WolfQuest classic is a separated because Anniversary couldn't fit over top of the 2006 version so evrima and legacy should be made the same or do a yandere dev

[lavish quail]

Balance, combat, glitches, hackers, clans, racism, roster, hitboxes and servers to mention a few

[tepid gate]

^

I've played solely and only Evrima since it got released until ~August this year

[tacit copper]

the racism should be moderated by the staff like mine do

[lavish quail]

I love legacy and all but i wont be sad to see it go

[tepid gate]

And I found the idea of removing the legacy to be just baffling

[lavish quail]

Not to mention the overkill amount of rules on every server to counteract the brokenness of the game

[tepid gate]

I genuinely think that most people that want it removed hardly even play this game and just say it out of spite

[lavish quail]

True

[tacit copper]

You are one of the few. but my community was founded on it. You remove it, my community will fall and so will many others

[proud coral]

Right now removing legacy might be bad. But eventually, I think it should go.

[tacit copper]

yea, probably

[tacit copper]

why? why do you think it should go/

[tepid gate]

There's no "might" there. Removing the legacy right now would absolutely butcher this game

[tacit copper]

what harm is there in keeping it?

[lavish quail]

Eventually as in like 2 years time, rn evrima has 9 dinosaurs

[tepid gate]

I don't think most people realise how tiny and irrelevant in terms of numbers Evrima actually is

[cyan flame]

@tacit copperI think it's more so, when Evrima is all around better than legacy, has all the same, and more playables, all the same, and more mechanics, and so on, why would we keep legacy around?

[proud coral]

Because once Evrima surpasses it in content/player count, there's no reason to keep the servers up. It's just a waste.

[tacit copper]

removing it even after Evrima is done, is going to butcher their player base.

[tepid gate]

Because it's not and never will be

[lavish quail]

Probably the rotten foundation that would steer some people around, legacy has a bunch of controversy

[tepid gate]

They are different games as Filipe stated before

Some people simply do not enjoy Evrima

[tacit copper]

because players like originals and foundations. Why do you think old games and consoles are popular?

[tepid gate]

They do not enjoy what it is and what it is meant to be

Some people just outright prefer the legacy

[winter mirage]

you do realise deleting legacy is destroying years of funding and work

[lavish quail]

popular isnt the word, moreso still alive

[tacit copper]

yea... so why remove it?

[lavish quail]

That got corrupted and has extreme amounts of controversy around it

[tepid gate]

While I wasn't one of them until just recently, I'd say that since ~August I started to view Legacy as the superior game to Evrima

[lavish quail]

It has been since evrimas release

[tepid gate]

Until August

[lavish quail]

Not cause it got it right

[tepid gate]

Evrima was imo superior, past that point Legacy>Evrima

[winter mirage]

no, have you seen yandere sim and its successor?

[cyan flame]

Well if that's the case, we'll never get to a point where legacy should be removed :p

[lavish quail]

Nope

[tepid gate]

I'm on the fence as to whether it should be removed at all or not

[lavish quail]

Sir im 17

[cyan flame]

Yes, but even so, if Evrima is everything legacy is but better, and more, I can't see people staying on legacy, that would be really strange.

[tepid gate]

There are strong arguments in favour of both imo

The main reason why I think that Legacy should be removed is simple

[tacit copper]

tell that to my 4000 player base that is based on Legacy

they came to my community for Legacy, not Evrima

[lavish quail]

Not immediately, once evrima is working at the same level with the same requirements of legacy then yes

[tepid gate]

There's a numbers of servers that make for a really poor advertisement for this game

[winter mirage]

Evrima is not user friendly either soooooooooooooo

[lavish quail]

You got about 2 1/2 years left then

[tepid gate]

The devs cannot take care of the legacy since they do not work on it

and yet the fact that there's a large number of those Chinese fake servers

[tacit copper]

Not unless I can make a big enough dent to prove what players want and the devs listen

[tepid gate]

with fake playercounts is really concerning

[tacit copper]

Thats fine, let the owners who run them deal with it. I do

[cyan flame]

You're telling me, that even if Evrima gets all the playables, all the mechanics, everything better than legacy, you'd still stick with legacy for.. some obscure reason? :p Sorry but I'm not sure I understand that, I get staying on legacy while Evrima is shit, as it currently is, but if it gets fixed..

[tepid gate]

I've seen people ask about whether their personal info/ip addresses and so on have been stolen when they logged onto those servers

[proud coral]

☝️

[tepid gate]

It just makes for really poor advertisment for the game that it allows such things to go on

[lavish quail]

Those servers are fucking disgusting

[tepid gate]

They are, absolutely

[lavish quail]

And they cant do anything about it

[tacit copper]

Because the majority of players want both. Let them decide. And if Legacy Servers start dwindling and the player base moves to Evrima, then that community can decide for themselves to make the switch. Not be forced to

[tepid gate]

They are pretty much the only reason why I think that legacy might have to be deleted

[lavish quail]

It just brings an awful name to the game

[proud coral]

Mmhm

[tepid gate]

They can but they'd have to spend time dealing with stuff that's irrelevant to what they're working on

it's kind of a waste of time for the devs

[cyan flame]

I think that's the idea. They won't remove legacy until the majority of the playerbase is on Evrima.

[lavish quail]

There is a lot of those servers, and the number keeps increasing

If they got rid of them they'd come back

[tacit copper]

My observations was that once Evrima is fully done, legacy will be gone without the opportunities for communities to move on their own free will. They will be FORCED to.

[tepid gate]

In general those servers make up the majority of this game's playerbase atm

[tacit copper]

I do my own dirty work on my server. I ban hackers, report copy cat servers, remove toxic players etc. While the devs help in certain areas, it is up to the server owners and staff to hold their own like mine does.

[lavish quail]

After about 2 and a half years yeach

[tepid gate]

I mean - I agree with you that they likely won't. I genuinely don't believe that there's a significant number of people that go to Evrima when the legacy is not available to them.

[lavish quail]

They'll probably warn everyone in advance tbf

[tacit copper]

Like I stated before, when we were having issues with the legacy server, members didnt go to evrima. They went to other games. That should mean something

[lavish quail]

"After this update we are going to delete the legacy branch" or something formal like that from punch

[cyan flame]

Ideally, you'd want to move by that time. And hopefully it's only a small minority that might not want to move, and well, at that point, it might not be worth to keep legacy around possibly. But for now, I'd rather play on legacy too, but there's no good servers anymore :p

[tacit copper]

yea, thats what I thought was stated.

[tepid gate]

If the devs removed the legacy right now, I'd be shocked to see an average number of players on steam remain at 500+ for this game

[tacit copper]

mine is a good server.

[tepid gate]

Evrima gets at most to 400 people at the moment

[winter mirage]

I'm part of mistell's server and these are the things she does to maintain it :)

[lavish quail]

Probably that they didnt want to download a 9gb hellscape

[tepid gate]

What's the name of your server btw, I might check it out

[tacit copper]

my point. Isle communities founded on legacy max every night. Including mine.

to the point I have to up server player count

[tepid gate]

Yea the numbers are just... definitely in the legacy's favour

If anyone thinks otherwise they're just delusional, seriously

I logged onto both branches one night

[tacit copper]

I think they should just leave it and wait until legacy ever goes completely dead.

[tepid gate]

to find ~200 people on Evrima if even that

[tacit copper]

if it doesnt, then let it be

[tepid gate]

and easily 800 actual players on the legacy

[outer sphinx]

curious, what is evrima around now, like 200...?

nvm

[tepid gate]

Atm? Give me a second

[tacit copper]

I bet 99% of those players currently playing The Ilse are on Legacy.

[cyan flame]

Name? I could check it out. I do miss legacy, but most servers I know of are well, plenty of rules, lack of game mechanics, and so on :p I wish there was still some official servers on legacy

[tacit copper]

I can Dm you the link if you'd like?

[tepid gate]

It's below 400 people atm

[tacit copper]

or I will post it in the unofficial Isle servers

[outer sphinx]

well when evrima has safelog and QA is... well struggling to say the least its def not surprising :P

[tepid gate]

Do that

[tacit copper]

I did

just now

[tepid gate]

Alright, got it

[icy lion]

Here's the current servers using steam server view

[lavish quail]

Yo mosageddon based. Dead but based

[icy lion]

Both qa and evrima public

[tepid gate]

I'm seeing different numbers

[tacit copper]

Ok, I have 3 people on my Evrima server lol

could have updated

[outer sphinx]

3 courageous souls

[tacit copper]

I just lowered the count so I could up the slots on the Legacy one

[lavish quail]

I like legacy i just cant stand the grow times on everything

[tepid gate]

@icy lionThe steam server browser shows e.g. Zoo having much more players to me

and some other servers having much less

[cyan flame]

@tacit copperHad a look at your game rules.. sorry to say, but I'm not a fan at all, though I approve of using thenyaw as the map! :p But unfortunately, I'm in favour of the official rules, more or less so.

[tepid gate]

than what you're seeing

[icy lion]

Yea it's not perfect

Both Steam view and in-game server browsing can be unreliable. sadly

[tacit copper]

Thats fine. We have rules to make it fair per the game mechanics

[tepid gate]

For me it's slightly short off 400 people on Evrima

[tacit copper]

and survivability of players

[lavish quail]

Rules are kinda meh

Thats another thing that puts me off legacy

[tacit copper]

Rules help regulate the server

[tepid gate]

It seems it's slightly above that for you, either way it's 350-500 people atm

[tacit copper]

There are Evrima servers with rules, what you mean?

[lavish quail]

shouldnt need any if the game works as intended

[tacit copper]

as of right now, my Evrima server has no rules

[lavish quail]

Mostly suck tbf

[tacit copper]

you just being rude and arguing to argue I feel

[lavish quail]

No more to argue that legacy really should go at some point

[tacit copper]

Servers can make whatever rules they want. Even in a game where all the mechanics work just fine.

[lavish quail]

Its stupidly controversial for a game

[tacit copper]

A game that communities are based on

[lavish quail]

just dont like the concept myself

[tepid gate]

Why? If people enjoy it - just leave it as a branch that people have to opt into. Make Evrima the default branch and leave it at that

[cyan flame]

Agreed. And really, the only rules needed should be "no mixing" and "no spawncamping" + potential group limits (because too big groups can cause all sorts of issues)

[tepid gate]

if someone wants to play the legacy let them

[tacit copper]

And keeping Legacy doesnt affect anyone. But removing it, affects a ton of communities and players

[tepid gate]

^

[outer sphinx]

as i see it, legacy is here to stay untill evrima outclasses it in every way and there are only a very small handfull of people left there in comparison

[lavish quail]

It puts a worse name to them

[tacit copper]

Rules are created to help regulate gameplay, create fairness etc.

[tepid gate]

I mean as I said - the only reason is that there are servers that create issues for the game

[lavish quail]

They cant do anything about the massive amount of the chinese servers, the combat is ass and the player base are either normal or stupidly racist

And not to mention the previous dev controversy

[tacit copper]

Players who hop into my server being racist, are immediately banned

[lavish quail]

which puts a awful name to the devs as a whole

[tacit copper]

And the combat is not Ass

[lavish quail]

Its pretty ass

[proud coral]

It's pretty bad

[cyan flame]

You don't need that. And rules tend to create more trouble than anything good. The game is regulated well enough on it's own, barring things like group limits and the whole mixpacking. But that's about it, all you need. As for behaviour, well yes, but I'm talking gameplay rules here.

[outer sphinx]

evrima combat is not ass persay just very very buggy

[lavish quail]

Evrima is just laggy af and broken af and kinda shit af

[proud coral]

Oh wait are we talking about legacy combat or Evrima 😮

[tacit copper]

There are very little members in my community that have an issue with the rules we have

[cyan flame]

@lavish quailSince every server these days have no alt turn, combat on legacy is indeed shit :p

[tacit copper]

in fact, alot of the members are thankful for rules.

[lavish quail]

legacy

[proud coral]

Oh, then yeah it's bad

[lavish quail]

"KOS KOS HE BIT ME AFTER I KILLED HIS FRIEND!"

[outer sphinx]

i mean personally i never had a problem with rule servers and have most of the time been the ones i played on, legacy and evrima

[tacit copper]

If your evrima based, why are you even commenting on something that does affect you?

[tepid gate]

I've noticed that, there's a lot of people on the community servers that like those rules. People who used to play on the officials don't like them though

[winter mirage]

Mistell is a great server owner. Don't know about you guys but maybe you shouldn't be crawling onto no rule servers if you are going to complain

[tepid gate]

I've honestly always despised them but it's a w/e

I play on both but I generally vastly prefer no rules servers so I spend most of my time on e.g. Asura

[lavish quail]

I dont like rules as a whole so im bias on that half but i still hate the sticklers so much

[tepid gate]

I do occasionally play on Teutonic though

[tacit copper]

You don't like rules because your human. Does anyone really like rules?

but yet we still follow them

[cyan flame]

?

[tepid gate]

Oh no, why I don't like rules is for a couple of reason - they typically get me killed

and I don't like bothering with reporting people

[cyan flame]

@tacit copperI don't like rules because they limit the gameplay in stupid manners most of the time.

[tepid gate]

I got killed like half a dozen of times due to rules

[tacit copper]

My server has rules to create fairness and survivability for the players

[lavish quail]

Scream at the top of their lungs in global chat, which shouldn't exist on its own, and get people slain because they memorised a page worth of rules

[cyan flame]

Not like you can't survive without rules.. :p

[tacit copper]

I had someone tell me how thankful they were for the body down rule otherwise they would have died

[proud coral]

Most of the time, rules are just restrictive and create an environment where the chat is always filled with "RULE BREAK! ADMIN!!!!!"

[outer sphinx]

i dont like that since on the server i used to play it was 8mb file limit so you can see the annoyance

[lavish quail]

Legacy is shit on the part that it needs rules to be fair

[tacit copper]

those players probably broke rules. You never know

[tepid gate]

To me the issue with reporting is that it kind of creates a toxic atmosphere where people look more so for a reason to report one another rather than to kill one another

[winter mirage]

that's a you problem

[lavish quail]

Yeah cause half of them are dumb

yeah there is two bodies here neither of you can fight now

[cyan flame]

Could say the same for you, it's a you problem that you need rules to stay alive.

[tacit copper]

people who break rules on my server get offenses, but they can also get them removed

[tepid gate]

E.g. I had a situation where I'd killed a young-ish Acro and was hurt, I sat down by the body and got killed a couple of moments later - why? Because another Acro(that also got really hurt in the fight against me) apparently couldn't eat the body(it rendered in the water for him, despite the fact that I was completely able to eat it because it was on land for me), he waited until he'd healed up and just killed me.

[lavish quail]

Rules shouldnt need to exist in a working game

[tacit copper]

we are a very forgiving community for new players

[cyan flame]

But it's not about if someone breaks a rule or not, but if rules are good or bad. And in most cases, rules aren't really needed, and causes more strange gameplay than not. With that said, group limits and some minor rules for immersive experience can be fine.

[tepid gate]

I've had so many adventures where rules got me killed that I just generally dislike playing on servers with them

or at least I play sparingly on servers with them

[lavish quail]

They get you killed over and over

[tacit copper]

In my server that is a rule break and the player would get their dino back

[lavish quail]

Rules shouldnt be needed in any ideal game

[lavish quail]

And then you got the situation where people bait players into rule breaks

I've done it personally and its far too easy to do

[tacit copper]

And they get in trouble for that.

[lavish quail]

They just die infront of you because you made them cross a river more than once

[tacit copper]

since when did this channel have a slowmode?

[tepid gate]

Yea, it was a rulebreak on... I think that was on Teutonic? It was a rulebreak there too since he technically had to relog to check if the body still isn't edible(it would've been) but as I said above, I don't like reporting people, besides I think he made a genuine mistake there. I wouldn't necessarily want the guy to get banned for that.

I also didn't lose much, it was just a Dilo I think

[tacit copper]

We arent ban happy.

[tepid gate]

I typically prefer to play smaller animals that aren't that big of a loss for me on those servers with rules

[tacit copper]

Infact, we give more chances than they are alotted. We try to be fair and understanding

We get alot of new players.

[tepid gate]

I see, fair enough

[lavish quail]

Your server doesnt speak for most servers though, Im banned from at least 4 because i didnt spend 40 minutes memorising rules

[tepid gate]

Might give it a shot later if I need a server for some dinosaur that I don't have on others

[tacit copper]

No, but I don't think that all servers should be thrown under the shadow of others

[tepid gate]

I've only ever gotten banned for 2 days from Pangaea for not noticing a body downhill while my companion munched on Stego's face killing it.

[lavish quail]

The fact you dont insta ban is rare enough

[tacit copper]

We insta ban racists players and players that hack

[lavish quail]

So 50% of legacy players?

[tacit copper]

or people who are being outright nasty

[tacit copper]

no?

[tepid gate]

I myself didn't even attack anyone but you know - we were in a party so apparently that was reason enough for a ban and kind of left a sour taste in my mouth

[tepid gate]

You greatly exaggerate there

[tacit copper]

^

[tepid gate]

There aren't that many cases of such behaviour on the legacy

Tbh I think I've seen more of it on Evrima

[tacit copper]

It also depends on how active staff are and their protocols

[lavish quail]

Yeah should of made it higher (jk but still far too common for a dinosaur game)

[tepid gate]

And that wasn't that common either

[tacit copper]

I personally feel no rule servers encourage more toxicity and bad players.

[tepid gate]

I think I remember some 6 cases of outright racism, homophobia and other stuff in Evrima, in the legacy it was less than that

[tacit copper]

bad players as in, mean players and issue players

[tepid gate]

Well I haven't noticed it that much on Asura which has no rules

[tacit copper]

all those types of things I don't tolerate on my server.

[lavish quail]

I only like rules that say either -Fuck you no racism- Or -Dont start random arguments in global its not our problem go cry alone in a cornor-

[tepid gate]

Nycta was probably the one where I saw the most... questionable behaviour

but I think that was just because that server was kind of really big

And even then it wasn't that common

[tacit copper]

Thats on the server owners fault for not having procols in place and keeping tabs on their staff

[tepid gate]

most cases of "toxicity" is just one person screeching about another and how they're going to get them reported and banned

[lavish quail]

I can remember at least 18 in legacy and like 4 from chinese people, possibly more without me translating correctly

[tacit copper]

We have protocols in place to prevent that.

[lavish quail]

Global chat itself is a mistake

im hella glad that shits gone

[tepid gate]

Overall most "toxicity" in my experience was due to rules and how one person died in a way they felt was unfair and against the rules

[tacit copper]

We have chat logs and we do weekly chat log checks for toxicity

If we find it, we reach out to those players.

[tepid gate]

I still remember one situation where a Cerato butchered an entire pack of Utahs on the radiotower on Thenyaw

and all the screeching from the Utahs

[lavish quail]

Fucking based cerato

[tepid gate]

and I just sat there thinking what in the world are you doing to die to a Cerato

[tepid gate]

It was against the rules to be fair

[outer sphinx]

the madlad

[tepid gate]

but nevertheless - Cerato should never be catching a Utah

it's literally impossible as long as the Utah has their hands on the keyboard

[outer sphinx]

never thought i'd see the day where a cera murders a pack of utahs

[tepid gate]

I mean unless they're going after the Cerato and letting it kill them one by one idk how that could happen

[lavish quail]

My statement stands

[tepid gate]

but apparently in that case they paniced and tried to jump onto the radiotower instead of just... running away

[lavish quail]

If there is a rule to stop you mass murdering then i dont like it

[tacit copper]

Well then a no rule server is for you.

[tepid gate]

cause on that server apparently they couldn't be killed as long as they were on radiotower or something

[lavish quail]

If someone lets you mass murder them there is a problem already

[tepid gate]

I mean... I can live with rules, without rules, with alt turn and without alt turn

I've played quite a bit on all the servers this game had to offer

I have my preferences but it's not like any of those things make the game unplayable imo

people just like to exaggerate

[outer sphinx]

sounds like The Isle alright

[lavish quail]

I like mass murdering utah packs on both versions of the game

there is something satisfying about them coming back to try fight even though they're clearly at a loss

Dont like servers that limit what you can do

[tacit copper]

Then go play on no rules servers and leave those servers that have rules alone.

If you feel the need to go mass merk players so be it.

[lavish quail]

Thats why i stick away from rules servers

[tepid gate]

I don't like artificial rules telling me what I can do either, but I can live with them

[tacit copper]

Rules make the gameplay more interesting and you have to be more tactful and aware of what your doing instead of spam biting people because you can

[lavish quail]

always so boring getting slayed for accidentally eating a corpse thats being watched by a juvie utah in a bush before they 4 call

[cyan flame]

Same, I played on the official servers most of the time. But now there's no officials left and no servers like them :/

[tepid gate]

they do negatively impact the gameplay but they don't make it impossible for me to have fun

[tacit copper]

We don't slay unless they get to a certain offense. And even then, we recently changed it to other options rather than them losing their dino

[tepid gate]

Hasn't Asura had one alt turn server?

[tacit copper]

ya'll had some bad experiences with rule servers apparently

[tepid gate]

They may have changed all of them to no alt though

[lavish quail]

Its much more fun to have a massive brawl than it is to have a fight and then immediately stop after a single guy dies

[tacit copper]

Its more realistic.....

dinos didnt mass kill other dinos

[cyan flame]

No idea. Could check but still

[tepid gate]

I think that the body tether rule is better than body down tbh

[tacit copper]

they killed what they needed to eat

[tepid gate]

To be fair - predators do surplus killing at time

[lavish quail]

Not awful not great

[paper oriole]

Animals mass kill when it is easy to

[tepid gate]

It doesn't happen en masse

Because that's a lot of energy

[lavish quail]

wasnt mass groups of dinos to murder

[tacit copper]

what predator mass kills?

[tepid gate]

Cats

[paper oriole]

Fox in hen house example

[tacit copper]

ok, we are talking dino not cats lol

[lavish quail]

My cat is brutal it killed all of my chickens

[cyan flame]

It's not that. It's that most of the rules put limits that make no sense. In most cases, the game is fine without rules. Limits of groups, and mixing, are the two things that I'd say can cause issues. Mixing cause of balance upset, and too big groups cause they just are hard to deal with due to sheer numbers.

[tepid gate]

Well, we could use birds as the only point of reference for dinosaurs

[lavish quail]

my snake tried to kill my cat but my cat tried to kill it

[tepid gate]

we don't really know whether theropods would mass kill or not

but I don't think that they wouldn't do it if they had the opportunity

it's better to have more food than less food

so if you can get it without exerting yourself too much

I don't see why someone wouldn't do it

[paper oriole]

Considering we dont have huge predatory birds in a complete bird reptile ecosystem it is hard to compare

[tepid gate]

E.g. if a crow finds its way into a nest of some other bird

[outer sphinx]

like cats on islands like New Zealand :)

[tepid gate]

there's a decent change that it will munch on all the eggs there

[lavish quail]

Evrima wont need rules cause there will be dinos that fulfil those rules jobs anyway

[tepid gate]

it won't stop after just one

[paper oriole]

Oh yeah crows will massacre a nest for fun even

[tacit copper]

Well, when players start playing on my evrima server we will prob still have rules

[lavish quail]

Why have a corpse tether rule when a cerato can just munch on it later?

Why have a no mass killing rule when it will be impossible to mass kill

[tepid gate]

I generally don't have an issue with people mass massacring my group, because in the vast majority of cases it only happens when you play poorly in an encounter

[lavish quail]

And there cant be a body down rule cause cannibalism exists

[tepid gate]

there's very few cases where adult animals are just doomed when they encounter some predator

[outer sphinx]

not that, just that evrima is building to have the rules integrated into the game itself so there is no need for them anymore, like canibalism for ex

[tepid gate]

in most cases if one dies the rest should be able to get away if they actually try to get away rather than fighting the predator

[lavish quail]

Evrima is doing everything right that legacy did wrong as of now

[outer sphinx]

except everything about perf and stability

[lavish quail]

except perf yeah

and utah

utah is fun but looks iffy

[outer sphinx]

utah just goes into perf and stability since thats bugs included

[tepid gate]

Well... not just that

[tepid gate]

I'd say that this is very much debatable.

At this point

[lavish quail]

Everything that legacy has done evrima has done better as of now

[tepid gate]

There's a tonne of things to criticise about Evrima

[outer sphinx]

like there are flaws with evrima but nothing that cant be fixed, like its not legacy after that scandal level of impossible

[lavish quail]

except diets, they should of came with gore

[tepid gate]

I completely and vehemently disagree

[lavish quail]

no way diets were needed without gore

[tepid gate]

There are a couple of things done better and some things done worse

Oh yea diets without gore was just... a baffling addition

[lavish quail]

I cant think of any off the top of my head you got any?

[tepid gate]

Bleed

The very concept of it in Evrima is just... pretty dumb

[outer sphinx]

bleed is basically the same just with extra steps

[tepid gate]

in the legacy the values are too high but

[lavish quail]

Still better than legacys though

[tepid gate]

It's absolutely not, it's vastly worse than the legacy

[outer sphinx]

it works on the same ideas just that in evrima its a dif healthbar

[lavish quail]

It can be improved upon too instead of it just being a timer

[lavish quail]

Legacys was just get in a hit and watch as your prey cant do shit

[tepid gate]

Atm I'd honestly say this game would be better off without bleed at all than with it

[lavish quail]

Then utah would need a lot more damage to be fair

[tepid gate]

That's just a matter of numbers - if they pumped up the numbers for Evrima as they did in the legacy it'd have the same effect

[lavish quail]

ive seen a lot of bleed suggestions but none of them are great

[tepid gate]

It used to be a damage dealer not a bleeder, I personally think it was better back then

[lavish quail]

I thought it was a bit too much

[tepid gate]

It just needed some tinkering with that I've explained a couple of times before they turned it into a bleeder

It was but there were other ways of tuning it down

[lavish quail]

It feels better as a bleeder though

[tepid gate]

than turning it into a bleeder

[lavish quail]

Update 3 combat was peak

[tepid gate]

It doesn't. I think Utah is atrocious

I don't like the bleeder Utah and I think it's just bad design-wise

[lavish quail]

Not counting any interaction beside utah and steg

anyway i shall be off now goodbye

[limber hull]

there's this whole legacy deletion vs legacy maintained argument and at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is that the devs have already made up their mind and don't like the idea of Legacy representing them in any way

also I love the comment "Devs? Are you going to listen to your community more and fix your game?" as if they only ever tried to fix the game if told to by some random community members and its not a constant ongoing attempt lmao

[barren zephyr]

Sure but it can't be anytime now

At least until Evrima is in a serviceable state

Right now it isn't, it's in an embarrassing state atm

[cyan flame]

I mean, they can, but it wouldn't be a good idea. Ideally, they'd delete legacy only after the majority of that playerbase has moved to Evrima on their own.

[limber hull]

while I agree the game is rather fucked, it's not like the devs are sitting still and pouting going "no, I don't WANT to fix the game". I have legit worked on dev teams before, saying "fix this bug" is well and good till you actually try to fix the one thing and it somehow breaks more shit

[barren zephyr]

Of course

But with the livebranch and qa both chipping away the population

[limber hull]

yea, i can agree that the fact that neither feel playable (and I REALLY don't want to play legacy), it can really ruin your motivation to play

[proud coral]

[barren zephyr]

Deleting legacy which retains the larger playerbase will do severe damage to the game's early phase development.

[limber hull]

very true

although it is an inevitability

I would be concerned for legacy's survival post update 5.5, as that would mean all core mechanics of legacy would be in EVRIMA

[barren zephyr]

Hmm

Not really imo

[cyan flame]

Depends on how much the playables matter

[limber hull]

skins, nesting, NV and everything else that's already been added

[cyan flame]

Much as most of us likes the mechanics, there's probably a good deal of people wanting specific playables too

[limber hull]

yea but its not like you can just add the fan fave that is rex and this juncture

[barren zephyr]

Not until there's enough playables to go around, the quality of the inclusions(no hypsi's or discount dryo's) and the mechanics to truly justify it as a clear upgrade compared to legacy

[limber hull]

if hypsi and dryo give reason to exist, that'd be nice lmao. I will be honest, I far prefer legacy dryo to EVRIMA dryo

[barren zephyr]

Scuffed diets/poor map design/ optimization is more than enough reason to turn off legacy players from migrating

[proud coral]

[barren zephyr]

I'd be surprised if by update 5.5 things clean up and are functioning at least serviceably

So far anything the devs have done so far is one of the two things

1. Mediocre
2. Game breaking

[proud coral]

Evrima has felt like a constant "I'll wait till the next update makes it more stable to play"

It's always next update

[barren zephyr]

From viewing the consistent performance(feelings aside)
The time it takes to churn out material is almost never quality

[cyan flame]

That + "the introduction of x mechanic will make the game fun/good/give a gameplay loop" and all that :p

[proud coral]

Yeah, waiting wouldn't be as bad if it actually worked

[proud coral]

[barren zephyr]

So it wouldn't be unfair to rephrase the term "quality takes time" to rather "it takes time for us to make mediocrity"

[proud coral]

It's like a constant build up. Like "don't worry, updates will be faster" over and over. Stuff like that.

[limber hull]

i mean, once all the mechanics are out, they can pump out animals like crazy, but they ain't done so

[proud coral]

I get all the core mechanics aren't in yet but still.....

Remember "updates after update 3 will come out like a fire hose"

Or "U4 is so close there's no point in fixing the save bug"

Months later....

[barren zephyr]

You can take all the time you need in the world
But if there's an issue with the fundamentals, or just the flat out design flaw with your premise. There's no magic that'll turn a poor implementation to a good one.
You'd need to either rework the concept or scrap them if it's not working optimally

[worn pumice]

a game breaking bug still not fixed after months is an issue honestly

especially on a live version of the branch

[proud coral]

Mmhm. Like I still have faith in the devs and the game.....but it's tiring.

And yeah I get "it's a beta" but still.

That excuse only goes so far

[barren zephyr]

An issue like that shouldn't ever exist for the length of time it did

It's a comical oversight

[limber hull]

honestly, all I need at this point is bugfixes, better carni diets, more herbi food locations and humans and I'm happy

[proud coral]

I'm really hoping this is a rough patch and the devs learn from it after their break.....

[worn pumice]

[barren zephyr]

Sure has been a length of time since the last tweak

Let alone an update

[proud coral]

What if U4 is basically the test.......

[worn pumice]

i mean it probably will be if were being honest

[proud coral]

Like nothing's really different

Center is still a huge hotspot, no diet changes.....

Pls no

[limber hull]

id imagine next patch might be "the big one" since it's nearly the second half of december, but we'll see

[barren zephyr]

Looking at the history of performance so far. It's likely gonna be a long awhile until anything is even passing the quality bar aside from a few exceptions

[worn pumice]

only thing i could see being drastic changes would be diet changes or diet spawn changes

[proud coral]

[barren zephyr]

I know I sure as hell won't be playing until diets are overhauled or scrapped

[worn pumice]

proper deino diet pls

if what we have is U4 im not playing it

[proud coral]

I was expecting diets to be rewarding

Not "we actually inflated growth and made a perfect diet basically normal growth"

I hate it so much

[barren zephyr]

Lmao

[proud coral]

Like I'm not asking for 2 hour Stego.....just for it to be g o o d

There have been all sorts of amazing ideas for diets that sound 100x better than ours. Like Zann's tiered nutrients

[worn pumice]

I would've liked the penalities to not be game changing

rn if u dont put 100% attention to your diet ur fucked

[barren zephyr]

From what I know, devs do a really terrible job at adjusting and tuning mechanics after post concept
Having a universal system in place needs to feel good without compromising the balance of the game. An integral mechanic like this needs to be constantly revisioned. Worked on and tweaked

[proud coral]

See on paper, I'm okay with that.

But how they did it is bad.

[worn pumice]

it actually makes the hunger bar feel non-existent

[proud coral]

☝️ YES

Hunger is just there

[barren zephyr]

We've seen it happen a few times in qa, but the tweaking tragically stopped after the results of balance blindsided the playerbase

[proud coral]

I'd anything, it's a nuisance

[worn pumice]

hunger is basically just a limit to tell me when to eat or not thats about it

[barren zephyr]

That's an issue with execution rather than concept

[worn pumice]

nutrients are the new hunger essentially

[proud coral]

[barren zephyr]

Diets are a great idea, but there' no magic to fix terrible execution

[proud coral]

I gotta switch to PC to type faster hnnnnng

[worn pumice]

i mean its possible they change diets a bit when U4 is released but its highly unlikely

[barren zephyr]

Very unlikely

Which is why I had the idea of the devs creating a diets 2.0 system

Essentially them tuning and overhauling the entire mechanic

[proud coral]

That's one of the things I'm hoping for along with this just being a rough patch. The devs realizing it and saying how they're gonna go back and redo it/fix the biggest issues and stuff.

[limber hull]

im actually happy with extended growth, since I personally thought that significantly speeding up old growth times would be utterly ridiculous

[worn pumice]

They way it works is horrible tho

[proud coral]

Yeah, I can see that. Still feels unrewarding though and much more like a chore.

[worn pumice]

like unless u have all 3 diets u take too long to grow

[proud coral]

Like I feel there can still be changes made to make it feel better without making growth too fast.

Also yes what Lion said ;0;

[worn pumice]

the penalties are too drastic and the rewards are too little

[proud coral]

I just want it to be more like "2 nutrients/neutral diet is regular growth that doesn't feel like it takes ages and stats are also normal. Buuuuuut you can put in the extra effort to get the harder to find/maintain PERFECT DIET that's really really good."

But instead, it's "Is it 3 nutrients? No? Have fun growing forever! :3"

[cyan flame]

Pretty much that yes. Two nutris should be the average, and having all three should be a noticable reward.

[worn pumice]

like 2 nutrients should be the most common

[proud coral]

As well as being hard to get and keep to balance the reward (for 3)

[worn pumice]

instead 3 is because u dont have a choice

[limber hull]

idk about 3 nutrients having that great a reward, since I hate the idea of stegs and deino's growing in less than 4 hours

[proud coral]

Seriously just do the tiered nutrient idea ;-; I don't remember all the details but it was basically like....

You have 2 biomes. 1 has 2 if your preferred foods, the 2nd has the 3rd one that's much more dangerous to get.

The decay of the nutrients also being different but again, I don't remember it all

[cyan flame]

One nutri should be achievable for pretty much everyone, two should be the average, three should be hard but properly rewarding

[limber hull]

it would also work in tandem with the garbage juvi carni diet to make it even more of a joke

[worn pumice]

oh yea juvi carnivore diets are so easy

[cyan flame]

That'd be fine if it was properly difficult to keep three nutris though.

[proud coral]

Could just make large/apex things kinda be an exception and have their perfect diet either be SUPER hard to get or require something else.

[worn pumice]

I just don't like how diets are encouraged but are instead required to grow

[proud coral]

My old idea was having the boost be species-specific and go from low, to higher, to low again based on size.

So Dryo for instance would get a small boost, but a boost nonetheless.

But a Carno would get a more noticeable boost since it's base time is longer.

But then apexes would taper back down.

[limber hull]

thats also true, i think three nutrients are overall very easy

[barren zephyr]

I think that's terrible

[proud coral]

*Pterable

[barren zephyr]

Inflating growth times caught controversy rightfully so

[limber hull]

old growth felt way too fast to deserve even less time imho

[proud coral]

I still believe there are ways to make it better without making it too fast.

[barren zephyr]

They originally were supposed to be a mechanic that incentivized reward rather than punishment

[barren zephyr]

Then we disagree fundamentally

This game does not respect player's time

At all

[proud coral]

I still remember the suggestions to make growth last days/weeks.

[worn pumice]

lol

[proud coral]

This ain't a mobile game ;-;

[worn pumice]

islecord moment

[paper oriole]

The growth punishment would be fine if diets weren’t a boring fucking chore. Give an engaging mechanic and it would be worth the punishment vs reward for participation, but the diets rn are anything but engaging

[barren zephyr]

^

[worn pumice]

diets are walking simulator for herbivores and for carnivores their just kind of there

[cyan flame]

Growing a stego in 3 hours would be fine if 95% of your attempts ended in death and the few times you succeed, you'd have to properly care and fight to keep that position. Including vs other stegos. As I said in the earlier discussion, this would be the time to test how to limit stegos numbers by difficulty and competition, but you somehow felt that was.. forced or something?

[barren zephyr]

True, if we actually had fun and were engaged in the arduous growth times
Then it'd be a justification

Right now there isn't

[cyan flame]

That too, currently growth is still no more fun, it's just an extra step to afk :p

[paper oriole]

Diets just force herbis to hot spots so carnis megapacks can find them easy, while carnis can go anywhere on the map for their diets

[worn pumice]

its almost like their encouraging this since every diet can be found at center

[paper oriole]

Yeah its bullshit

[worn pumice]

and I mean every single diet can found at center

including carnivores

[proud coral]

Kinda feels.....like Evrima is like trying to put a working car together and getting all the parts first...

But we're getting parts for the parts first, so stuff just doesn't work because it's still missing other pieces....if that makes sense

[barren zephyr]

It's a convoluted system that provides more flaw than merit
That even damages balance

[paper oriole]

Plus the scavenger hunt for 3 plants is boring no matter what i want to play the isle not eye spy for chantarelle mushroom

[worn pumice]

I had more fun w/o diets then with them honestly

[paper oriole]

Same

[barren zephyr]

That's where the phrase comes from

[paper oriole]

I was never an afk grower but now i wanna be with how shitty diets are

[barren zephyr]

"Sometimes less is more"

[proud coral]

[worn pumice]

[paper oriole]

I tested multiple times how easy it is to afk grow with diets as carni and it is easy

Carnis get the easiest growth

[worn pumice]

I def afk grow now all the time

[paper oriole]

I afk grow utah, ptera, carno

[worn pumice]

becuz walking around is not fun its just a chore

[proud coral]

Needs to be the opposite ;-; For the most part with some exceptions, herbivores on average should be easier to play than carnivores. More so in the sense of just overall survival.

[worn pumice]

Making juvi gameplay engaging is how afk growth will be limited

[barren zephyr]

With Carni, you either
Afk and farm ai like a herbi
Go to centre
Or play the game properly and suffer shitty debuffs snowballing you to be worse at catching prey through time

[proud coral]

I had suggested one thing like that. Juvie Tenos diving and losing it as they grow. But that kinda sparked a mini-debate ;-;

[paper oriole]

But pachy takes as long as an apex if you dont go to center and die 50 times to hacker carnos, aggro herbis or just normal predators who arent hacking

[worn pumice]

all of pachy's diets being in the same area as carno, the major dinosaur it wants to avoid

[proud coral]

Pachy needs to be jungle dino ;0;

[paper oriole]

Carno, the current land apex pred and also the fastest land animal is easier to grow than a pachy

[barren zephyr]

How people are okay with Pachy growing such long times if they're shit out of luck is beyond me

[paper oriole]

Pachy is also inexcusably slow as juvi

[proud coral]

Well that's due to the animations not being in yet for juvies

[paper oriole]

Forced in to the plains yet cant run from anything

[worn pumice]

pachy is supposed to be having an animation kit thing for it which isnt done so ill give that a pass

[paper oriole]

Of course another herbi released as a cripple

[worn pumice]

the isle

[limber hull]

the ONLY animal that has to leave centre for food is hypsi lmao, i'm serious

[worn pumice]

cripples and is crippled ironic

[paper oriole]

Tenonto was the only herbi they did somewhat consistently good so far

[paper oriole]

Yeah j had to travel all the way north for mango tree

Like why tf

[limber hull]

heavily disagree with this sentiment, pachy is far more suited for plains life

[paper oriole]

Pachy should be highlands dino

[worn pumice]

[silver zephyr]

coastal/mountain pachy

[proud coral]

The plains....where it's main predator Carno lurks....

Instead of being in the jungle where it can utilize it's headbutt more effectively? 😮

[worn pumice]

pachy as a sort of cliff dinosaur sounds interesting

[paper oriole]

Mountain goat pachy not carno bait plains pachy

[worn pumice]

^ yes mountain goat pachy

[barren zephyr]

I didn't even need to say anything to see that coming lmao

[limber hull]

how would it be able to utilise its headbutt more effectively in the jungle where there are trees and bushes its attackers can hide in lmao

[barren zephyr]

It works mutually

It's smaller size gives it a clear edge over Carno in that terrain

[proud coral]

Mmmhm. Pachy is agile and can use the bushes to....

....Ambush when attacked. budum tssss

[paper oriole]

If it was in the highlands, cliffs and mountains it could barrel utahs down dropoffs with its headbutt it works

[proud coral]

Sorry......

[limber hull]

pachy is very much also designed with the tools in mind to handle plain predators, since plains predators rely on speed and stamina above all else, which pachy has the tools to remove

[paper oriole]

I wanna ram a utah off a cliff not listen to carno spam call bs in plains until i die to a megapack i cant escape

[proud coral]

Maybe if diets were actually good, it could be like Pachy has 2 foods in/near jungles, but then that one food in plains.

So if it wants that perfect diet, it's gonna have to expose itself temporarily rather than staying in plains.

Though I guess you can chalk that up to EVERYTHING BEING IN STUPID PLAINS

Even coconuts

EVEN CRABS.

[barren zephyr]

Man just fuck diets

I'mma write a redesign prompt in a bit

[proud coral]

[paper oriole]

I dont wanna ping pong for food my whole gameplay i want to play a game not do a boring chore

[worn pumice]

[paper oriole]

Doesnt matter if pne plant is in 3 different biomes it is still a chore and lacks freedom that the other faction gets

Carnis have always been the more popular faction so why did the devs think it was a good idea to make them much more accessible than herbis

Just kill the herbi base. I very rarely see one herbi outside a hotspot and i still see them outnumbered in those hotspots

[worn pumice]

its somehow easier to grow carnivores then herbivores

[paper oriole]

Exactly

[proud coral]

[paper oriole]

Not only that, it is easier to grow a larger carni than a smaller herbi (pachy and carno)

[worn pumice]

carnivores should be more focused on survival and ambushing

while herbivores focus on fighting off predators by flighting or fighting

[paper oriole]

When i played hypsi a few days ago the only herbi player i actually saw and not just heard was a sub stego that was killing itself in a river

[worn pumice]

lmao

[paper oriole]

Pretty symbolic ay

[worn pumice]

actually I crashed recently and lost my stego and instead of being mad i felt like i gained freedom

[paper oriole]

Lmao relatable

[worn pumice]

becuz of the constant lag

[paper oriole]

I cant stand playing stego

[worn pumice]

the constant spam calling, lag, and boredom was annoying

[paper oriole]

I want to be speedy, but even the “soeedy” herbivores are slower than their predators. I hope that shit changes with galli

[worn pumice]

galli slower then carno

[paper oriole]

I wouldnt mind it being a bit slower than carno but it better be fucking faster than utah

[worn pumice]

the main problem with the speedy herbivores is that the largest land carnivore is also the fastest

[paper oriole]

Yeah carno was a trash choice this early

Shoulda been cerato

[silver zephyr]

galli should be slower than carno so it at least has a reliable hunter imo, but it should be the second fastest after carno

[worn pumice]

like they wanted to go for all smalls and then randomly put in carno something that preys on smalls

[paper oriole]

Also sick to death if snailpace herbi juvies

[worn pumice]

herbivore juvis are just worse then their carnivore counter parts in so many ways

[paper oriole]

Like sure stego makes sense to be slow but juvie pachy is slower than DEINO

[limber hull]

carnivores having baby diets be "haha here you go, all nutrients, thanks for playing" makes me so mad lmao

[worn pumice]

stego is the only one thats decent cuz it can defend itself

yea carnivore diets are literally just the gameplay from before

[paper oriole]

Yeah literally just eat a frog in a dead corner of the map and get growth boost its no different than legacy except only one faction can do it now

[worn pumice]

even easier then legacy honestly cuz the AI doesnt work

[paper oriole]

Yeah dryos just stand their and die

[worn pumice]

at least in legacy the ava or oro would try n run

[paper oriole]

So do deer and turtles

Just stand there and die

[worn pumice]

ive never seen a deer run

[paper oriole]

They dont run or make noise they may as well be hotdog stands

[worn pumice]

lol

[paper oriole]

Boars are easy to bait and kill as utah

[worn pumice]

never seen this bastard run either

[paper oriole]

Lmao the chicken just dies too yeah

[limber hull]

imho, carnivores should not have to hunt for 3 nutrients, but should also not be given stuff for free for the first half of their growth

[paper oriole]

Only ones that try to run are rabbits and frogs

[worn pumice]

rabbits are the only one that runs and frogs too but since frogs are slow as hell it doesnt rly matter

[paper oriole]

Elite fish also offer themselves up on shorelines

[worn pumice]

if the frogs like used the water or something

[worn pumice]

lmao elite fish be like

[paper oriole]

I got my grow boost on utah from elite fish multiple times

[paper oriole]

[worn pumice]

this is just one of my encounters

[paper oriole]

Yeah ive seen that at the border swamp too

Probably happens all over because THE ISLE

[worn pumice]

this is the only AI i like

too bad it spawns so far from water

[paper oriole]

I sort of like the boars because ive found dead juvi carnivores near them a couple times but as adult they are free food

[worn pumice]

boars are cool cuz they actually will kill u

till ur adult in which they become a meat sack

[paper oriole]

Yeah one phases over a rock without making a noise to oneshot my hypsi

I can find solace in the fact that it happens to carnis too

[worn pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-kaperoo-gif-23539323

[paper oriole]

Facts

[cunning anvil]

Facts

[worn pumice]

it also doesnt help that theres only one person working on AI

[paper oriole]

The Isle

[worn pumice]

good point

survive it

[paper oriole]

You will not survive it

[silver zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-survive-it-survived-the-isle-gif-23580246

[paper oriole]

Theres a coconut tree on the beach that crashes your game when you go near it

North beach if you wanna try it

[worn pumice]

no wonder i kept crashing

[paper oriole]

I never got the coords so idk if its been bug reported even lmao

[worn pumice]

i would try and find the coords but im not tryna play with the server lag

[paper oriole]

Understandable

[paper oriole]

while local herbivore chat would be nice, it would inevitably be used to hunt with a mix of faster herbivores and slow powerhouse herbivores

or rather it would make it easier i guess because it can already be done in discord

[limber hull]

yea, also, makes no realistic sense

i just wish there was more varied audio communication. Friendly, broadcast, threaten and help are cool, but more variety to show intention would be neat

[paper oriole]

if anything it would be cool if the hadrosaurs (para, maia and shant) could have a local chat amongst themselves which could give them a unique feature. assuming the hadrosaurs are going to be more flight and cc focused animals

but like a dryo talking to a theri and a pachyrhino is gonna get nasty and turn in to a team hunting on the offense for fun

[limber hull]

you know a lot of people want dryo's gimmick to be "herbi translator" lmao

that's it

[paper oriole]

lol they think "dryo is harmless it would be fine" but dont stop to think that dryo can scout out potential victims ez

[limber hull]

and yes, it was believed to be a scout that stuck with other animals for safety irl, but frankly, it can do that WITHOUT giving direct comms. It has a 4 call

[paper oriole]

being a scout and a herd straggler is perfectly fine but they can communicate what they need to with calls

4 calling if they see a predator is enough

[limber hull]

besides, having a dryo desperately run up and 4 call is a lot more interesting than "utah pack incoming"

[paper oriole]

adds to the so called horror of the isle

[limber hull]

i wonder if humans can tame a dryo as a scout by just kind of bringing it food lmao

[paper oriole]

wouldnt be surprised

[limber hull]

like the dryo goes "yea they're giving me food and I think this will be funny"

[paper oriole]

human and dinosaur partnerships are inevitable

its what players do

[limber hull]

im gonna see, when humans come out, if I can get up close and personal to admire a steg without getting killed instantly

[paper oriole]

to be honest if a human approaches me im gonna kfs it just to take cringy trophy poses with the body for screenshots

maybe leave the body in silly places because i am bored and diets dont engage me as much as dumb shit like that

[outer sphinx]

you mean "utah big here" people dont have time to type

[paper oriole]

“Uthas!!!1”

[tepid gate]

@tacit copper Jusy fyi it was/is possible to have both branches on your PC. I have both the legacy and Evrima branch installed simultaneously. I really don't think switching between the branches is the reason why Evrima's numbers are this poor.

Well technically I have the QA branch and the legacy on my PC, I don't keep Evrima on it because... it would be kind of a waste of space.

[tacit copper]

would you be willing to vc and show me how so I can show my community?

I seriously dont know how and was sure the old way doesnt work

[tepid gate]

There's a video for it, I will send it to you

[tacit copper]

oh ok

[tepid gate]

the issue is that I've heard it doesn't work anymore

give me a second

[tacit copper]

thank you. Its just super frustrating

yea see! lol My point

[tepid gate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Db9VMtrXSc

I think this should be it, however some people said that it causes the game not to work for them

It works for me but do note that I've done it ages ago and just kept both branches on

[tacit copper]

Yea, well I am leaving my feedback up there lol

[tepid gate]

it works for me still even now

[tacit copper]

If its not working anymore then I prob wont do it.

[tepid gate]

Oh, that's fine, not suggesting you should delete it, just informing you that there is/was a possiblity to have both

[tacit copper]

Im sure I asked a dev about it and they said no.

[tepid gate]

Oh, fair enough, if they said it's impossible now then they are probably right

[tacit copper]

I could be wrong, But seriously, they need to make it easier since we don't have a choice but to switch eventually. Still not happy about it

[tepid gate]

either way - I honestly doubt they will split the game to two different products on steam, I genuinely can't see that happening

[tacit copper]

I personally feel my feedback was good lol

If they are going to force their player base to switch, they need to make it easy

[tepid gate]

Don't get me wrong, you do have a point but... I just doubt they will actually do it

[carmine path]

Want me to be honest with you.

[tacit copper]

I will just keep posting it then lol

[tacit copper]

If its going to be rude no

Im not here to argue lol.

I did that yesterday lol

[carmine path]

It wasn’t all that good feedback imo

[tacit copper]

what? how?

[carmine path]

Well for starts its either misworded or has false info

[tacit copper]

Literally making it easier for their current player base founded on legacy to transition

ok so how do you have both games then?

and how is it false?

Correct me if I am wrong, If not then leave it be

[carmine path]

Its saying and quote “While steam may have you pay or make players pay for the Evrima branch of the game, what the devs can do is send steam keys to those people who already bought the legacy branch so they can install Evrima for free. This would also open the fact that players may purchase the Evrima over Legacy and increase Evrima play since ya'll so adamant on it.”

Your insinuating that you have to pay for both evrima and legacy