general-feedback-discussion

[paper oriole]

If you want a link to the document

[barren zephyr]

Sure

[limber hull]

i still wanna know what's wrong with herbi diets lmao

[paper oriole]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hCMSR3HGsVveiUdncQ25XGI0PDz0o3HBFmflyqfySs8/edit?usp=sharing

[signal beacon]

And I still wanna know who fucking layman is

[limber hull]

besides the godawful food placement

which makes herbis way more horrid than they deserve to be

[signal beacon]

I can list all of the food spawn check this out

Centre

[paper oriole]

[limber hull]

You can find them away from centre, but don't bother

[paper oriole]

Oh yeah and a solitary coconut tree in a spot on north beach that crashes the game

[limber hull]

Food outside centre is rare and sometimes non-existent, even in their respective biomes

[signal beacon]

You have discovered god

[limber hull]

I've found a good few coconuts outside centre

[paper oriole]

I have discovered suffering

[limber hull]

but they're so rare and hidden

[signal beacon]

**exactly **

[paper oriole]

Idk if i can get back in to na2 still because it crashed every time i tried lmao

Or maybe it was na1… idk

But stay away from that cursed tree folks

[signal beacon]

I now worship that tree

I will lure others to it

Apease the tree

[limber hull]

i like how i never got a reason to why the herbi diets are bad

[paper oriole]

Theres also a mango tree up there where the mangoes sometimes glitch out and become unbreakable after you grab them

[paper oriole]

Theyre boring and make no sense to have every herbi just eat 3 foods

[signal beacon]

Joins argument
You're wrong

leaves argument

[paper oriole]

Its just a cycle that gets old fast

[limber hull]

because the cycle is small

ive never had to migrate or seek food

once i've reached "x location", that's literally all the food I need

[paper oriole]

Nah id be just as bored ping ponging across the map for this shit lol

[signal beacon]

Lemme migrate 5 feet to the mangos

[limber hull]

i would much rather explore and forage for food, aka ping pong, than stand in a single field for over an hour

[paper oriole]

Exploration =/= the game forcing you to migrate between a few spots on repeat

[limber hull]

i dont like a few spots

i want every single plains biome to have the possibility of food

[paper oriole]

Well its 3 foods

[limber hull]

for example

[paper oriole]

“Possibility” so spend 95% of your time looking for food and not be able to enjoy the game

[limber hull]

however, less of each. Create competition within smaller biomes

[limber hull]

its better than 95% of the world simply not containing food or water

[paper oriole]

Aka prevent herds from happening and remove one of the biggest old herbi perks

[limber hull]

okay, lmao, let me rephrase

[paper oriole]

The old afker herds sucked ass but sorry i dont want to have to go carni if i want to be able to live in a group without starving

[limber hull]

every single biome should have enough food to feed a herd. However, herds can and will go through food quick, especially at larger sizes, so herds move more than solos

[paper oriole]

Im just sick of ping ponging between 3 foods for most of ny herbi playtime

Its repetitive no matter what

Carnis get to go where they want rn and herbis get punished for that

[limber hull]

i feel it gets boring simply on the merit of "well, these three foods are within a few metres of each other, guess I'm sticking here forever"

im so tired of the same locale for my entire life

[paper oriole]

Nah because i couldnt find mangoes in center so i had to go way north for them and i was bored as fuck doing so. I was bored as fuck diverting all my time looking for mushrooms (which i never found btw)

Because i dont want my gameplay to be nothing but a scavenger hunt

[limber hull]

hypsi has literally only like, one place i know where mango spawns, and i dont even think the mushroom locale i found spawns mushrooms anymore. Hypsi's just kinda fucked tbh

Hypsi has entire forests yet can't find any single mushroom or mango

It sucks ass

[barren zephyr]

You covered the basics for carni diets, and quite literally went in for herbi diets(maybe a drop of some bias) lol
But I agree, even if this system only covers the basics of basics, it's miles better than ping pong fetch quests

[paper oriole]

Plus with scent the only thing my colourblind ass can actually recognize are radish root but thats another issue

So i check every bloody plant in scent

[limber hull]

Also, scent needs to be given to moving herbis

[paper oriole]

But the point still is im sick of my game loop just being a game of eye spy for your 3 plants

[limber hull]

It's stupid as hell that it isn't yet

[paper oriole]

Ive been asking for this forever its so fucking annoying stop and sniff every 20 seconds i want to just throw myself off a cliff and play ptera

[barren zephyr]

True, scent needs to be reworked for herbies, there needs to be more work into gaining food as a herbie as well

I have another idea too

All herbie food should be mostly neutral in colour and patterns when smelled(just wait a sec before I lose you)

Once you arrive to the general area pinpointing where the food is, it's your job to learn and figure out how to access your food through mechanics

[outer sphinx]

prob the fact that herbis have diets even before 50% while carnis dont idk

[paper oriole]

Yeah i grew a utah earlier eating the easiest shit sea turtles and dryos snd boars effortless all in one spot

[limber hull]

I do have to agree that some foods need more of the cool mechanics. Mangoes, coconuts and roots are examples of interactive mechanics I actually like (I think it'd be sick if something ate sunchoke flowers, so the animals that dug up sunchoke for the roots would be in direct contest with these animals)

[barren zephyr]

It would rely on pattern recognition, experience, and learning the function on where and how a food would appear
There would be exceptions of course

This is based on the concept of Pachies head batting trees to get coconuts
I believe most herbie food should have this level of interactivity

[limber hull]

Also shit like fruits providing a small bit of hydration, meaning herbis don't need to stop their food hunt to also search for water would be nice

Another food I like is mushrooms because they're pretty inedible to anything but those accustomed to them, which is also interesting to me

[outer sphinx]

i made a comment about how food should spawn a few days ago:

Firstly the food spawns would be semi-random, not totaly rng but nor designated a one and be all spot on the map, so jungle food will spawn only in jungles but randomly for ex, this could be attuned via making that there will always be a minimum set number of food in each biome if needed. This would bring more dynamic to herbis gameplay loop and a less sedentary style making them be on the move more, enforcing migrations with bigger herds

[limber hull]

They cause tons of side-effects

[barren zephyr]

Even for basic bush eating, the bushes can trap or slow you down, the more you eat, the deeper in you go. A Teno would have to clockwork and wiggle around a bush to eat it safely, albeit it might be a slower way to consume. If you want to be greedy and eat everything quickly, your whole body would get deeper in and make it more difficult to escape at an ambushing predator. But this same bush would be a safe haven for a smaller species at providing slight brief security

There could also be "Ripe" eating, similarly to "organ meat" concept. First come first served, and would provide inter species competition

You could feed a herd reliably with some bushes, but a select few are mostly benefitting

To have these two mechanics synergized

The most greedy players will benefit the most when it comes to eating and nutrition

But will be the most punished in the presence of an incoming predator

It'd become both a benefit and liability to selfish style of play

[limber hull]

i mean, having a normal food item then a high quality item could actually be awesome

The basic shit is frequent, whereas high quality would provide far more nutrients and thus be more sought after

[barren zephyr]

True, that's the whole issue I have with diets

The incentive is not the reward, the incentive is to not get fucked over

[limber hull]

So if some other teno is eying my high quality potato, I kick his shit in

Because I saw it first and I want it

Or you could have rare food items shared among many animals in the same biome that have high nutrient yield and low spawnrate, so they're immediately identifiable

[barren zephyr]

I had that idea months ago

The "Special" food type would be purple, rare, and provide clear ample buffs
Significant

Enough to clear the gap between even being hunted from packs, or escaping

[limber hull]

like you can have a banana tree and sometimes it drops bananas which every single animal in the biome wants (as an example). You could have animals straight up bodyguarding the banana location just so they can have the bananas for themselves, but this not only attracts rival herbis, but carnivores too, who will make quick work of these

[barren zephyr]

For example, it'd turn an Elk, into a large healthy bull Elk to ward off even powerfully large packs of wolves

Ehhhhh

It'd lead to Carni's camping the site, unless the spawns are randomized, and less biome restricted

Though the concept of it dropping the food periodically and Herbi groups calling dibs is a good one

[limber hull]

carnis CAN do that, but any smart herbi will see them and decide against going for the bananas and simply live on their more basic foods

and the carnis will starve, surrounded by the bananas they can't eat

[barren zephyr]

I'm just real iffy on the concept of Carni's camping for food, it's less proactive

[limber hull]

that i agree on

the thing is, there's only so many bananas per day. Eventually, especially if you have a herd, the hunger rate will outweight the gain given from the nanners

so you'd have to move and migrate on

so the idea should more likely be animals visiting the banana trees for a quick snack for the herd

[barren zephyr]

It'd make sense

Though looking at it from the fundamentals

Diets do not really "add" to the experience, they instead provide the baseline experience and mostly bring punishments with them

Rather than rewards for following the system

[limber hull]

i think the fact that there's a night vision buff without night vision really makes you feel how meaningless they are

because a huge portion where a good diet would be useful just doesn't exist

[outer sphinx]

but what happens when carnis start camping these spots?

[limber hull]

then, again, the herbis can go elsewhere

[barren zephyr]

Inb4 Centre

[limber hull]

bananas are not necessary, just additions

[barren zephyr]

The thing is, there's only so much biomes given the map space, this leads to herbivores only and strictly sticking to one or two areas in the game

This makes it jarring especially when the environments, and the enjoyment of migration through these areas are screaming to be explored/seen

Why place hidden locations, easter eggs, or story details on the map. When you're not allowed to find them as most of the roster without incurring the liabilities of doing so

You shouldn't have ideas and mechanics introduced that friction against each other without the existence of providing a compromise

[lavish quail]

I hate to say this but fortnite actually has a really good deaf accessibility option

[tepid gate]

The very basic idea of those thee nutrients is just bad. It artificially extends growth times by quite a lot, especially on the smaller animals which become just atrocious. You need to first munch on three different plants before you even get to start really growing. It's awfully counterproductive for animals that are supposed to offer some easier gameplay for a much lower effort. Idk why anyone would bother with something like a Dryo right now.

Aside from that the very basic gameplay loop which consists of walking around different parts of the map to try to get every single plant that's a part of your diet is just a dull chore.

Aside from that the herbivore diets are really unclear and unintuitive. The game doesn't tell you what plants you've eaten until now, they are not indicated anywhere. You only get their names in the character screen but then they are translated straight to colours(which honestly mean hell knows what). What exactly is responsible for carbs? What gives you protein? Which out of those three represents the lipids? The game tells you nothing about it and honestly I have no idea how someone who will just start it up for the first time after it had been fully released on the livebranch will be supposed to figure any of this out.

Herbivore diets are "better" than carnivore diets in that they kind of function(just badly, making those animals dull). They turn the game into a walking simulator but at least they "sort of" function. They certainly make me never want to play herbivores again(Last time I've tried to play the game I quit playing Tenonto after 20 minutes, because I realised that I'm looking forward to going afk because it's just that boring).

[urban flax]

@thorny lynx Even stego ?

[lavish quail]

I mean i would say rex should definitely get it

jwe3 rex is actually sick

raptors less awesome

But only cause they insta kill the poor herbis

[urban flax]

There's a JWE3 already ? I thought JWE2 just came out

[lavish quail]

oh

2*

[signal beacon]

@winter mirage firstly, herbis shouldn't be making peace with carnivores. That's not even what global was for anyway. Not even mentioning the opportunity to mix pack or body guard if herbis could pick up bodys.

Secondly, while spawns could be a tad more spread out instead of 3 potential spawns, a random ass fence that you spawn in that somehow negates attacks is not the way to go. Especially because some adult small tiers are as big as juvi apexes which would mean that if the large juvies needed to get out something like a mono could get in.

[winter mirage]

Have you even been on the QA branch or Evrima official servers?

[signal beacon]

Yes and do you want to make the mixpacking on there worse?

[winter mirage]

not really, but I know hungry deinos are a nightmare for them and us

[lavish quail]

It would be awful

[signal beacon]

That's why I said spawns should be more varied

[lavish quail]

Your friend has a stego and kills some other guys so you can eat

Or they just take the body for the fun of it

[winter mirage]

I have yet to see those kind of mix diets. Only one I ever saw was a carno and tenoto.

[lavish quail]

Go on after 11pm there is a massive Chinese mixpacking of carnos and stegs

[signal beacon]

I've seen literally every animal in the game in one pack

[worn pumice]

Why would herbis need to carry bodies?

[winter mirage]

Mostly saying it since I was a carno today and found two deinos in an area and I gave them some boars, that's kind of where my idea stemmed

[signal beacon]

"As peace offerings to carnis"

[worn pumice]

Mix packing is a sin

[lavish quail]

Tbh your peace offering should be; get the fuck away or I’ll kill you

[worn pumice]

It’s just going to encourage mix packing

[winter mirage]

true

It was just a random idea, okay? I was mostly thinking in the cases of deino being a fish out of water. It wasn't mix dieting idea at all. Mostly a "you eat that and you'll be full enough to not try to hunt me"

[lavish quail]

I had a good enough version of that tbh

Got hit by a pachy and left, then watched another one stay and keep fighting only to die

[winter mirage]

oof.

Wait what are you even talking about with pachies? You never specified your dino so we have no clue about the circumstances.

Most legacy servers I go on do not allow mix dieting but allow mix packing (same diet different dinos). Hate to break it to ya but once an evrima server has 50 people in it, chaos begins.

[signal beacon]

Imagine giving your own post a check mark

[worn pumice]

And the suggestion was good too

Wait they removed it

[winter mirage]

Yeah I removed it because some people are just sad.

[worn pumice]

We have been saved

Wait no not yours the other guys one

[vagrant trench]

Yeah I removed it.

[winter mirage]

oh

anyways it's a sad sight when someone doesn't get I want try make the environment nicer not a war zone for the game.

[barren zephyr]

I mean, this IS a survival game

any "nice" environment can be replicated within the sandbox mode in the coming future

[winter mirage]

a survival game. Not COD.

[barren zephyr]

Yeah survival game.
"Every man for himself"

the only true friendly environment you should be able to get would be either in a proper herbivore-only herd.
Same species pack
or by yourself.

[tepid gate]

Yes, "survival game" - you have to outsurvive other players. To make sure that you stay alive the best bet is to remove the competition. Wild animals do that without betting an eye.

[thorny lynx]

@drowsy sun That is the worst memory leak I have ever seen. Clearly the devs aren't ready to release this update any time soon. They need to figure out what is causing all these performance issues.

[drowsy sun]

No hate, but it's genuinely atrocious that it hasn't been addressed. This is the only game where I've seen stuff like this get put on the backburner. The topic of these performance issues has even come up in some of my game dev classes, from peers who also play. It's yikes.

[thorny lynx]

That's sad when your game is a prime example of a negative main topic in class xD

Makes me wonder if devs even play their own game half the time.

[drowsy sun]

A little.. not what I like to see either, cause this game has so much potential

[thorny lynx]

I havent played the game in months. Not interested anymore. I will wait until sandbox and customization is in. I doubt they will fix the performance issues by update 5 tho.

[drowsy sun]

I just play to keep our community happy. If at some point the performance gets better, it'll be appreciated, that's all.

[limber hull]

thats update 3, not the QA build for update 4

you can tell by looking at the stam metre in the background

[thorny lynx]

I thought the QA build had performance issues?

[limber hull]

not that bad

[drowsy sun]

Oh yeah still an update 3 server. But the memory leak? Big yikes

[thorny lynx]

Stuff like that should never even have passed on the main branch.

[drowsy sun]

I dont mean this in a rude way, but Fluff isn't wrong. At least, according to what I've learned myself. If the performance issues were that bad, it shouldn't have been updated before they were resolved.

[limber hull]

i dont disagree, but saying update 4 shouldn't be released because the current state of update 3 is shitty (which has been very true for a while) is weird since a good few of those performance issues have been addressed in U4. Honestly, I ditched U3 a while ago because, as we all know, it is fucked beyond compare

[thorny lynx]

I'm not saying all bugs must be squashed before releasing. I can understand niche bugs presenting themselvws by doing extremely specific things, but huge memory leaks and broken mechanics and huge performance drops on the main branch? I don't care if you feel rushed. Fix that shit. Main branch is most likely what we will need to play on for months if this is how long updates will take in the future.

I'm honestly glad they are taking their time with this update so this doesn't happen again. From what I hear about Deino diets being shit and diets being 90% of playtime in general, I have hopes they will be addressed.

Also the carnos needing to eat an entire carno to get full. That's ridiculous.

[drowsy sun]

What bothers me is the devs do have a lot of these fixes, but haven't released them until the next update. Safe log breaking and these lag issues should be addressed in a patch (if my training is anything to go off of). Its not to say update 4 shouldnt come, its just there should be a fix between all of this so they dont have to drop it all at the same time and then spend all day fixing issues while also dropping that update. Spread that work out a bit, y'know?

It just doesnt sit right with me to leave your community like that when the stuff thats wrong is game-breaking

[thorny lynx]

Honestly? Fuck the main branch. Everyone should play QA from now on. Let this entire process be a community effort.

[drowsy sun]

I wish it were that simple. I just want the peeps in the server we run to be happy

[thorny lynx]

I've just seen a lot of questionable decisions made about diets in general and balancing and blatant ignorance of community-wide concerns and fears.

It doesn't give me a lot of hope, but I am clinging on.

[drowsy sun]

I agree. Im exhausted dealing with all of it, and I cant begin to imagine how the devs feel. But its still a responsibility held by the devs and it still should be addressed.

Hell if Im tired I bet they're ready to hit the bones
Making a game isnt easy, but it doesnt have to be this hard early on

[thorny lynx]

They have big dreams for this game but they're such a small team, even though they have been hiring more people.

[drowsy sun]

This game can be a cinematic masterpiece, for sure. But the biggest thing our Unreal instructor has been teaching us is your game can look amazing, but if its unbalanced and the performance is lacking, it brings it down. That's why you see games with really crappy graphics with high popularity. The balancing and performance always outshine whatever fancy models or textures you use. And that's no shame on anyone, that's just how it is.

[barren zephyr]

would a territory mechanic where packs or herds of certain dinos mark, roam and defend and area they pick. it be cool cuz you could have a massive territory, but if none of the pack mates or the dominant member of the pack manage to defend their territory it can be taken by another rival group, i think if they do this the whole mega packing issue could also be solved by making different groups rivals, and forcing them to either fight or to abandon the location they where at if they dont want to risk dying

[drowsy sun]

Anyway, I hope the screenshot helps them out. Im sure mine isnt the only one they've received, but crossing my fingers we see improvement soon 🤞

[limber hull]

would discourage movement around the map, which could be bad for people who enjoy exploration

[barren zephyr]

well it wouldn't be an obligatory thing, you could either play nomadic or protecting a territory

[limber hull]

also I don't really see any benefit to having a territory

you still eat and drink the same

[barren zephyr]

idk just adding something more to do aside from eating and drinking

[limber hull]

yea but there's no tangible benefit, no reason you'd WANT a territory or want to protect it

[barren zephyr]

like wether you want to hunt and explore or hunt and defend a piece of land its up to u

[paper oriole]

Like herbi diets already do

[limber hull]

i like herbi diets but wish they were more spread out and encouraged more herbi v herbi competition

[barren zephyr]

well that why im talking about it here, to see if some one has an idea to make that idea work, by giving some perk or benefit to it

[paper oriole]

When you see another herbi as an herbi theres already a 50% chance itll just KFS you, dont think we need more encouragement for “conpetition” because it already happens

[barren zephyr]

i think it would benefit nesting players more than any other type of player, u manage a piece of land u could feel its safer

[limber hull]

they do it because they're fucking bored of walking in the same triangle for an hour

[barren zephyr]

well thats just competition from being bored cuz I've never ben killed by other
over food

[paper oriole]

Walking in a bigger triangle wont solve the boredom issue if their whole play cycle is an endless game of eye spy for 3 plants

[limber hull]

then you give them many big triangles, not just one big triangle

[barren zephyr]

i mean i agree, honestly hard to think of a way to make the game not feel super repetitive

[paper oriole]

Same problem

[limber hull]

eh, it lets you actually go places

i just want to leave centre idc about anything else

[paper oriole]

People dont just want to go on a scavenger hunt for plant assets for 99% of their ganeplay even as herbi, we want to actually enjoy the game

[tepid gate]

I think you're wrong there, it's the opposite - there should be no QA branch. If the livebranch is so bad then the whole QA facade should be dropped and this build should be ported to the livebranch asap(it should've happened in September, the fact that there's still an open QA branch happening right now is just a joke in a poor taste).

[paper oriole]

Carnivores get to go wherever they want aside from deino for obvious reasons, they have the privilege to explore freely without being punished for it

Herbivores would have to focus on finding food and have no freedom of true exploration

[limber hull]

ive found the opposite, as carnivore, I've felt ultra-pressured to sit in centre or starve horribly, since all the AI and players like to spawn there

[proud coral]

I hate Center.

[tepid gate]

For some unexplainable reason the devs seem to be allergic to releasing smaller patches. I don't remember seeing small patches in Evrima at all(or at least in a long time). It's like every time you just have to download the whole game again for some reason. Idk what's up with that but the devs should really get that figured out because this practice is appalling.

[fallen cargo]

Center needs a meteor strike

[paper oriole]

As a utah yesterday i grew to full adult afking in a bush at southwest eating ez ai that spawns ar every corner of the map. After growing i toured around the island and continuously ran in tk boars and dryos

I had full freedom of choice

[low canopy]

i find it amusing that they nuked old south spawn since well i guess everyone was just sitting there, and now we got new pond to sit at

[paper oriole]

I still afk at aoutheast and southwest ez as carni

The puddle at the beach makes it even easier

[limber hull]

i still think the diets for newborn carnis fucking suck

[tepid gate]

There are diets for newborn carnis?

[paper oriole]

No

[proud coral]

Basically pre-diet gameplay....which a g a i n, goes against what the devs said they wanted with diets.

[paper oriole]

They can eat everything. I ate a sea turtle, got full growth boost and AFKed

[low canopy]

thats the redeeming factor of carni diets, not having to deal with the system

[limber hull]

deino is an example of all the worst parts of the diet system

[limber hull]

i actually hated that, it made carnivores so much more boring to me

[paper oriole]

Deino is almost as bad as current herbi diets

Why tf are land ai on deino diet

[proud coral]

Herbi diets aren't terrible to me 😮 Not amazing, but not terrible.

[limber hull]

deino should not be given the first 50% of its diet for free, and its next 50% should not be so fucking weird

[paper oriole]

No fish? Do the devs know gators eat a ton of fish in actuality?

[proud coral]

I'm still just very baffled about them going EXACTLY against their reasoning for Deino not having preferred prey in the first place.

They literally told us Deino cannot hunt on land, so it would be unfair for it to prefer land prey.

Then they go and do it

[limber hull]

all they kept was the cannibalism (arguably the least engaging part of the whole diet for deino lmao)

[proud coral]

Like do they assume AI actually goes and drinks right now?

[low canopy]

tbf for the amount of power that deino wields it should be more than just afking in a river nomming mindless fish AI

[paper oriole]

Sea turtle on deino diet when all the sea turtles spawn in the middle of fields

[tepid gate]

Because it was the easiest and best carnivore prior to that change

[proud coral]

Yes. It annoys me that Deino, an 8 ton alligator has been one of the easiest things to grow.

[tepid gate]

I literally wouldn't touch anything else if Deino didn't have this garbage diet mechanic

I mean

to be perfectly honest - if there was one dinosaur that didn't have a diet mechanic I'd probably play just that

[limber hull]

I think what makes me the most frustrated is the fact that they talked a lot about how apexes are going to be extremely hard to grow and hen did the opposite with deino

[tepid gate]

all the rest can go rot in hell

[limber hull]

basically cera lmao

[proud coral]

Really hoping this is just a rough patch no pun intended in development.....diets have potential, but this is n o t the way.

[paper oriole]

Ptera is basically no different with diet systen

[tepid gate]

Maybe, we will see about that, people have corrected me that Cerato won't be able to eat everything, it only states that it stomach allows it to eat every gore, not that it gains nutrients from everything

If it gets to ignore this trash mechanic then I will probably play only Cerato

what a shame it's not coming out any time soon

[proud coral]

I've only heard that Cerato can stomach spoiled/bad meat, not that it will eat everything. That's just an exaggeration. :/

[limber hull]

As far as I know, cera can eat whatever the fuck it wants, but I might be wrong

[proud coral]

Yeah I haven't seen anything official for that. Just that it can tolerate spoiled meat and Magy meat..

[cyan flame]

Wouldn't it perhaps be a good idea to test that out on the QA branch now that we have two apexes. People complain that stego has no predators, but I've yet to see any experimentation with having stegos cull their own, something that would also work as a population control and so on.

[proud coral]

But maybe they changed it....

Please no ;-;

[tepid gate]

that doesn't mean it gets to ignore nutrients though

[limber hull]

that seems... specific and forced tbh lmao

[tepid gate]

If it can eat "everything" but it has to eat animal x/y/z for lipids and a/b/c for carbohydrates then diets are still a menace for it

[proud coral]

Hunger being hunger kinda went away with current diets :/ I feel like it's just there now as a random meter.

[cyan flame]

How so? We have a test branch, but we're not.. using it to test stuff?

[low canopy]

test branch was underutilised for certain

[cyan flame]

Very much so

[limber hull]

Honestly, I'd think it'd be better if nutrients weren't capped at 300 for some reason and rather 100 (which makes more sense), and the simple act of taking a bite of your diet food quickly filled up nutrients, because frankly, why do you need that much of one food item to even get a good amount of nutrients from it? If I want to eat the food purely for nutrients and not worry about emptying my stomach to do so, let me

[proud coral]

I get gorging on nutrients, but I feel gorging should be it's own mechanic rather than letting nutrients get absurdly high like that :/

I actually thought it was a bug at first 😛

[cyan flame]

I'm not sure that would make any difference? But sure, that would be another thing we could have perhaps tested.. :p

[proud coral]

Sometimes you gotta test even bad ideas to get good ones 😛

Could lead to moments like "eh, that doesn't work. But wait, what if INSTEAD we did it like this?" and then it works.

[limber hull]

The issue I have is that nutrients are treated like food, straight up. You don't get to eat variety when your stomach basically says "please only give me nutrient-food thanks"

[proud coral]

Yep. Once again, hunger doesn't feel like a thing anymore. It's just kinda.....there.

Nutrients are the new hunger and I dislike it :/

Nutrients should be a thing you definitely keep an eye on, but not enough to make hunger feel redundant.

And the fact hunger feels like it's redundant in a survival game is very concerning 😛

[limber hull]

TBH, I've often found this is one of the easiest games to maintain hunger in

[proud coral]

Mmhm.

[low canopy]

worse, hunger is not redundant but directly prevents you from doing your diets even when you try to do it

[proud coral]

It's just there.

[limber hull]

and i agree, this is a GIGANTIC flaw

separate nutrients from hunger in how its gained and how it decays

[low canopy]

ahh the memories of puking on purpose just to fix my diet 🙂

[limber hull]

don't make nutrients hunger 2.0

[proud coral]

"Oh no, my carbs are too low. But I can't eat because I'll instantly vomit and lose ALL my nutrients."

🤷 Guess I'll just suck it up

[limber hull]

For example, with gore, if I eat a high nutrient organ of the animal, likethe brain, the hunger gain should be low, but the nutrient gain should be high

[proud coral]

[cyan flame]

Maybe test that out. Might not work with carni diets right now, due to lack of gore, but it could work for herbis. High value plants, instead of three different things. High value for one species, and high value for more than one, for competition and all.

[proud coral]

Zann's tiered diet foods pls

[limber hull]

@half rivet 3x damage boost is utterly insane

also i see zero need to track them

if your goal is to get them away from the nest, then you have no need to continue attacking after they've left

(also this feature heavily favours defensive animals rather than higher mobility offensive animals)

btw, for reference, a stego with this buff could deal literally almost 4000 damage per tail swipe, enough to two-tap deinos to the head

[worn pumice]

lol

[limber hull]

not even, you'd only need to hit one headshot

the other one could be a bodyshot and it'd still die

[worn pumice]

thats crazy

i dont see why animals need boosts anyways

like if ur nesting as a smaller dino u can bait the bigger dino to come after u

instead of 4X dmg boost and 5X speed

[cyan flame]

Also no reaction to herbivore coming near nest? Yeah.. I don't know, I don't fancy a fat maia trampling my stego babies.. :p

I could see that being a thing if herbis get a free pass, because knowing this playerbase.. ^^

[worn pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/beasts-of-bermuda-the-isle-kaperoo-path-of-titans-gif-23526684

[cyan flame]

@worn pumiceI know right. As if I'd trust any other but my "mate" near any offspring of mine. Wouldn't be comfortable with even a fellow stego under such circumstances.

[half rivet]

It will track until they are gone from the nest, and so will the damage boost. It IS a parent's instinct, so it has to be kind of powerful.

[limber hull]

3x is far too powerful

[half rivet]

yeah now that i think about it

[worn pumice]

u dont need a dmg boost to be protective

[limber hull]

for another reference, that damage amount is enough for a deino parent to take off 5/6ths of a carno's health in one bodyshot

[worn pumice]

Teno could 2 shot carno with tail slam lol

[limber hull]

lmao you aren't wrong

also, again, see zero need for tracking at all

[worn pumice]

if u want to nest and protect ur offspring just use ur brain

bait out the stronger dino or be more defensive

[limber hull]

if its a defensive thing, you don't need to track the attacker

[half rivet]

yeah now that i think about it

[worn pumice]

something doesnt become superman when they have a child

they just become more aggressive of other things

[half rivet]

lemme just

[limber hull]

the damage boost (which I'm iffy on anything getting a damage boost), would be more reasonable around the 1.25x mark, and that's pretty generous

[zealous violet]

@drowsy sun My bf does tech support for computers, builds em, games, ect. Hes pretty smart in the ways of the comp lol. He pointed out the memory leaking thing a looooong time ago, around the time the new map came to me but before we had center pond. I doubt its ever going to get fixed.

[outer sphinx]

if the idea is to protect the nest why not just add a mechanic to cover the sent of the nest for a short time so you can lead them away? or attack them etc

[limber hull]

exactly. Nest protection could literally be stuff like "can build nest in this location" or "can do this to nest" to avoid it getting stolen from, rather than combat

ptera, for example, can nest up high, so why would it need to fight off anything that isn't a ptera?

[outer sphinx]

ptera in general doesnt even need anything about its nesting since lets say hatchlings cant fly but with how short ptera is they will get the ability so fast if smth that is a threat comes they can just fly to a dif rock

[outer sphinx]

also making juvies more uniqe would help, not hatchlings but juvies so those that grew a bit could for ex either swim, climb or burrow

[low canopy]

lets say you add rivers as wide as that, can you guess what happens?
It works as effective barrier for terrestrials to never cross shutting down parts of the map

[limber hull]

personally, i love the idea of rivers like that, since our current river system seems constricted and kinda dumb. However, there should be "crossing areas" which are mildly more safe

[lavish quail]

add that and a few bridges lol

there was canyon in legacy which was basically the same

[outer sphinx]

bridges def would make sense with humans, this on top of shallow spots for the other semi aquatics like sucho bary etc that dont lurk deep in the water

[limber hull]

also, i think the concept of "deino is in every single body of water" is a problem holding many Isle players back

[outer sphinx]

the fear of early u3 with 90% of servers beeing deino prob

[limber hull]

yea, true

but in update 4, i've started swimming more to escape threats

[barren zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/doctorwho-how-do-you-know-gif-5915112

[lavish quail]

teno players

[limber hull]

yea, basically lmao

[barren zephyr]

||Minmi niche||

[limber hull]

dude i cant wait for more aquatics so people can realise that the water isnt as scary as they make it out to be

[barren zephyr]

more aquatics and herbis please 🙂

[limber hull]

honestly, beipi will probably help be a deino detector

since it won't be active near deino waters

[barren zephyr]

yeah

[limber hull]

deino is only so scary because there's no way to tell where it is

[barren zephyr]

and hopefully deino water scent is improved

made better

[limber hull]

with aquatics, we'll have animals that will actively show what waters are safe and what have threats

[lavish quail]

Rn the only water i see as safe is shallows or south

[limber hull]

yea which sucks, i hate shallows

[low canopy]

thats reasonable, why would you gamble your survival chances in a survival game

[outer sphinx]

thats more asutro as it can sense if smth is in the water from the surface/land

so if you are big enough an austro wont mess with you and it is relaxing in water thne you know theres no deino or thing in the water big enough

[lavish quail]

I cant wait for austro

[fallen cargo]

i think when austro drops imma main it for a bit

[lavish quail]

Im gonna main it forever

austro, magy, troodon and ___

blank is preserved for bary or sucho

[limber hull]

but beipi isn't going to be dumb and not know what's going on

[lavish quail]

Beipi can go anywhere tbf

it can outrun a deino

I would trust austro as my source a lot more

[paper oriole]

Id assume wading fishers would have a water sense as well, smaller faster ones probably wouldn’t care about a deino or two in the area

[outer sphinx]

never said beipi wont be that but austro has the kit to deal with infested waters

[outer sphinx]

same, im gonna pain mostly small tiers/ dromeosaurs, hope austro doesnt get ruined like utah did

[lavish quail]

Utahs fine the pounce is just messy tbf

[outer sphinx]

when i mean ruined i mean the dino as a whole, not just gameplay, like model, sounds etc

[lavish quail]

I like it gives off a JP vibe

[outer sphinx]

hope once we get the feathered model its not gonna look like a wet chicken

[lavish quail]

Which lets be honest is why dinosaurs arent just dead animals that are sometimes in museums

[outer sphinx]

i never liked scaled raptors once i saw feathered ones, so i hate the JP ones even more now

[lavish quail]

Jp is the only reason this game exists lul

course there is gonna be some blatant rip offs

[outer sphinx]

i can understand jp since back then the knowledge was very dif but jw on the other hand..., scared what will happen with pyroraptor

[lavish quail]

It will be turned into a badass movie dino like spino was

[fallen cargo]

its like growing up with a hairless cat, sure ya love it to death but itd be sick if it had fur lol

[lavish quail]

I mean i would much rather not have a feathered utah as a pet

[outer sphinx]

at least rex isnt a blatant ripoff while still having that jp feel about it and be accurate to the same level of the majority of the roster, an with rex they at least cared to change its sounds a bit unlike utha which is a 1:1 same sound

[lavish quail]

imagine all the blood and shit that would stain the feathers

pain to clean

[lavish quail]

Yes the bark is awesome i agree good sir

[fallen cargo]

true but blood on anything is a pain to clean tbh

[lavish quail]

Less hard on skin tbf- i would know

[outer sphinx]

spino back then i can understand, like said, knowledge then was limited, now it doesnt stack up good at all, more so that pyro was again a small fluff ball like velo and deyno, so knowing their history...

[lavish quail]

I trust that JW3 will suck as much as JW2

which somehow was worse than JW1

[limber hull]

i'll be honest, as much shit as EVRIMA gets for its spino design, I adore it compared to legacy's spino

[outer sphinx]

i hate what we have now, at least for rex they took the jp sounds and altered them, utah gets none of that, i would hate utahs design as a whole much more if it was added uppon to make it unique/better

[outer sphinx]

you mean the walking billboard not spino

[lavish quail]

I love it it looks fucking terrifying

[limber hull]

the main issues I have with EVRIMA spino is the fact that the sail looks pathetic and the tail doesn't really have a cool aquatic design to it

Spino would be more intimidating if the sail was larger tbh

[outer sphinx]

for me it just confuses me why giga and spino have hypo armor...

[lavish quail]

true

[outer sphinx]

why not give it to rex as well if you wanted apexes to have it or dont add it at all

[lavish quail]

evrima spino looks like it should just walk up to a water source say fuck you this is mine now to everyone else and then just sit there

[limber hull]

the tail and the sail are my two main issues, everything else I like

[lavish quail]

tail should be more flat ish

[limber hull]

he looks diabolical, and I really like that

like hes plotting shit

[outer sphinx]

the tail doesnt fit a water animal

[lavish quail]

I want it to have a ore ass looking thing for a tail

[limber hull]

yea, exactly

the model is really close to looking good

[outer sphinx]

its just a big fat tube on a dino that lives mainly in water

[lavish quail]

and the sail could do with being taller

or at least larger

[limber hull]

Legacy's issue is it had too much sail, EVRIMA has too little

cause no offense but this little bastard looks dumb

[lavish quail]

Neither of them have the tail though

[outer sphinx]

How much sail do you want? Yes

[limber hull]

he looks so stupid

[lavish quail]

Take away the the isle thing and it looks like PoT tbh

[lavish quail]

I am sail.

[outer sphinx]

pot has a very nice spino imo

[lavish quail]

PoT feels goofy to me now; i used to like it but they keep adding dumb shit to it

like i do not want 12h growth allos game

[limber hull]

PoT's spino has an actual fucking sail, that I do like

[outer sphinx]

well i only mean the design

[lavish quail]

or 16h spino even though its trash

[limber hull]

Yea, gameplay-wise, PoT is fucking shit imho

can't stand it for a second

[outer sphinx]

now this is how a spino should look more in media

[lavish quail]

It was okay without growth

[limber hull]

EVRIMA is so close to just having a cooler version of that model lmao

[lavish quail]

the tail is overkill for that spino though

[outer sphinx]

a bit ye but at least its flat/works for a water animal

[outer sphinx]

i mean there are parts i like and dislike in both

[limber hull]

Like, EVRIMA spino seems to be designed to really give off that whole "apex that can and will fuck you up" kind of deal, like most apexes, however, it can also look like the actual animal with a few minor adjustments

[lavish quail]

It looks like the kind of thing to say; This entire place is mine now, any objections? no good.

Spino best boi

[fallen cargo]

I just wanna say, Evrima Spino gives off the same vibes as a fly that rubs it's hands together while sitting on your food, it knows what its doing and it loves that you can't tell it what to do

[lavish quail]

other than austro, magy, troodon, sucho, bary

[outer sphinx]

troo will be such an interesting animal, most likely its either gonna be shit or broken :/

talking current roster

[lavish quail]

Ohohoh your at centre pond? no no no we're at centre pond, Oh you want to stay at centre pond? no no no Im at centre pond you are somewhere else now

[lavish quail]

Troodon biting the heels of an afk rex for 6 hours

[outer sphinx]

dies bc rex sneezed on it

[limber hull]

troo is gonna die instantly to utahs, so it better know its place during the day. Seriously, a utah bite one-shots the thing

[lavish quail]

Troodon is less that 55kg?

[limber hull]

yep

[lavish quail]

Wait that makes sense now that i think about it

[limber hull]

40kg according to the size chart

extremely small and very pathetic

[lavish quail]

Until night time

[fallen cargo]

I can already see pteras hunting troodons during the day

[lavish quail]

Poor troodons

[limber hull]

pteras literally can 3-shot troos lmao

not even including headshots

[lavish quail]

Until night time

[outer sphinx]

ptera does so low damage?

[lavish quail]

If ptera didnt 3 shot troodon it would be on par with utah in damage lul

[fallen cargo]

Ptera does 15, so yeah it can kill it if it's persistent, plus it's alt bite does more damage

[outer sphinx]

well ptera has 1 attack while utah has 2, excluding alts

[limber hull]

ptera isn't meant to kill things so the low damage makes sense imho. Also the attack is nothing more than a minor annoyance

[fallen cargo]

Yeah, I meant with troos low hp pool

[lavish quail]

Troodon bleeding out after its friend accidentally bites it

Until night time

[fallen cargo]

Spasms is gonna be a menace to troos lol

[limber hull]

i think the bleed is the least of the issues of troos lmao

if it bites another troodon, that troodon gonna have a real bad time

[fallen cargo]

Utah randomly bites and it happens to kill a troo that was in a bush infront of it lol

[lavish quail]

Troodons during the day
Troodons during the night

Until night time

[fallen cargo]

Dilos during the night

[outer sphinx]

utah muscle spams a troo bu accident

[limber hull]

troodon's weakness is it's really an over-sized compy during the day

[lavish quail]

Until night time

[limber hull]

what the fuck are you talking about judge

[lavish quail]

I dont know- i lost myself somwhere

Until night time

[outer sphinx]

he's stuck in QA servers- lagging

[fallen cargo]

It'd be interesting if humans had alcohol, like you drink it and get a buff to health Regen or Stam Regen but if you drink too much you'll get drunk

[limber hull]

mercs are more likely to use alcohol medically than recreationally

[outer sphinx]

^

well depends on the level of realism they are going for with them

like to heal you first need to use alcohol etc

[fallen cargo]

Yeah, though the option to see a inexperienced drunk Merc would be hilarious

[limber hull]

also, believe me, its not the merc thats gonna be drinking when I play it

but that merc will 100% be drunk

[fallen cargo]

Lol

A squad of Mercs just trying to fist fight a Utah

[outer sphinx]

imaginary utah*

[fallen cargo]

I'd imagine a Merc could climb a tree, they have to be trained to climb stuff right?

[limber hull]

unfortunately, alcohol is not a hallucinogen

[outer sphinx]

but it does mess with your mind where you dont really understand whats around you

[fallen cargo]

It also makes you very relaxed and sluggish

Atleast for some people

[outer sphinx]

it varies from people to people

[fallen cargo]

I kinda hope humans would have a hunger bar, atleast Tribals should imo

[outer sphinx]

its still asurvival game so hunegr and thirst are kinda guaranted but growth is def not gonna be a part

tho ngl they might have it the herdest when it comes to food and water as they need to purify it/scavange it, same for food, i hope mercs have to make tools, machiness to do this while tribals craft simpler versions

[urban flax]

Growth for mercs

[outer sphinx]

also maybe they will allow us to drink from waterfalls/ fast flowing rivers for once

human or dino

[urban flax]

I think only humans could be able to drink from waterfalls
Cause they can take the water in their hands, then drink it
A dino would just drown

[outer sphinx]

what about ptera?

they can go on rocks, waterfall edges where they have acces to it but cant drink it

[urban flax]

Oh drinking from the top of the waterfall
I think that's doable
But there's not much of a point, there plenty of water there, you don't need to be drinking specifically in the waterfall

[outer sphinx]

it would be nice, and with humans they can drink fresh water without the need to purify it, so if we get smth like this why not just make it in general

[limber hull]

i'd hope food humans can find could be easily transported, but either found in merc bases or cooked from food found around the world map (ambient AI can be cooked and eaten, fruits like melons, oranges and coconuts can simply be eaten if opened). Also dinosaur inedible because dinosaur

[lavish quail]

cages; chickens; chickens in cages

[fallen cargo]

Yeah that's what I was thinking too, it'd just be cooler and add more difficulty to humans

[urban flax]

dinosaurs edible for tribals only

[outer sphinx]

i do hope mercs will be able to make campfires etc since saying only tribals can craft is really stupid

[fallen cargo]

I think Mercs should make smokeless fire, (it's an actual fire building tactic) where there's alot less light/smoke coming from the fire

[limber hull]

however, smoking fire is MUCH scarier :)

[lavish quail]

Cages; chickens in cages; cages in cars; cars in bases; chicken for later

mango; backpack; mango in backpack

[fallen cargo]

Here me out, chicken in trucks, trucks in bases, loads of chicken in bases

[urban flax]

I'd love to see extensive tribal weapon crafting, using dino parts
Like raptor claw knives, rex teeth-club, anky tail club
Gotta craft the legendary theri claw greatsword

[outer sphinx]

Anthomnia: KARAMBIT IN THE ISLE

[fallen cargo]

It'd also be cool if Tribals could skin Dino's and the pelt had the Dino's skin on it so a tribal could kill you and wear your colors lol

[lavish quail]

gross

[limber hull]

yea, as long as mercs stay away from dinos and tribals go for the attack, I'm fine. If it ends up with mercs being the prime aggressors, then there's an issue imho

[outer sphinx]

reality

[urban flax]

I was thinking that quality-wise, tribals could have access to three types of materials : stone/wood (found in nature) metal scraps (found on mercs) and bone (found on dinos)
Weapons made of metal and bone would obviously be the best ones

[limber hull]

tribals are gross man, have you seen what they're meant to look like?

[lavish quail]

reality sucks i prefer game

[fallen cargo]

Aren't they like orcs or soemthing?

[outer sphinx]

gore u6

[outer sphinx]

basically

[lavish quail]

Gore isnt too bad

i dont mind eating brains and shit

[outer sphinx]

its literally what he described there

[lavish quail]

but like skinning be gross

[outer sphinx]

skinning stuff

[limber hull]

basically

[urban flax]

Actually, having tribals building tents out of dinosaur skin would be so cool

[lavish quail]

I like steven (the one with no eyes)

[fallen cargo]

Right? Or wearing hats made from hypsi feathers

[outer sphinx]

frost resistance: +50

[limber hull]

my man, tribals are such fucking horrid little bastards they'd skin another tribal alive just because

[urban flax]

Monster Hunter vibes

[outer sphinx]

if it is possible i will make my tribal look like some jurassic doom slayer

[fallen cargo]

Imagine you're a dino, and you see the head of a T-Rex mounted at the entrance of a tribal camp XD

[outer sphinx]

imagine you are a merc*

[fallen cargo]

True

[urban flax]

And it's your own head you lost in a former life by falling off a cliff :)

[fallen cargo]

The good ending lol

[outer sphinx]

if just start hearing random horns at night in the jungle i just accept my fate

[limber hull]

they have no sense of empathy and they see little to no issue with excessive violence "just because". They're essentially the missing link, with appearance and tool use somewhat like a human, yet essentially are just "human chimps", in behaviour, violence and build

[fallen cargo]

So planets of the apes kinda stuff

[limber hull]

except they look like fucked up humans

[lavish quail]

Me no like dino

[urban flax]

Average Isle player

Though I do hope they can make somewhat sophisticated things, like in TSL designs

[fallen cargo]

I hope the building is slow, we don't need fortnite kids building a three story mansion with WiFi and a pool at the single sound of a compys footstep

[limber hull]

tribals are going to literally just be where the team shows off how far they are willing to go with mature and violent themes lmao. These things are horrid killing machines which can and will kill in outright brutal ways because they can. They lack the precision and swift kill of a gun, so their style of attacking is very "slow and painful"

[outer sphinx]

dilo and tribals at night might be the most terrifying thing, just hearing a dilo or horn/ multiple of them, as a merc especially

[urban flax]

wtf are you doing outside of your base aty night as a merc

[fallen cargo]

I feel like troodons could kill a few Tribals at night, just nip their ankles

[urban flax]

Oh right, there are troodons inside

[outer sphinx]

who said you had a base to go to

i hope there will be more mercs than spots on bases to house them

thus having some significance on a base, so its not just a world hub for mercs

[fallen cargo]

Docks is gonna harbor alot of Mercs

[urban flax]

I hope they fix resources/AI spwaning before adding humans tho
If things only respawn at server restarts it's gonna be so painfl

[fallen cargo]

True

[outer sphinx]

after bugs the biggest flaw of evrima is everything that has to do with spawning, like plants, AI etc

or more so, lack there of

[urban flax]

They gotta find a good and reliable spawning system

From what I know the one they have right now is very basic

So they can have a good and persistent world that doesn't become cluttered in resources nor empty

And doesn't just die from the sheer amount of bodies littering it after some time

[outer sphinx]

imo if they can segment the map in regions/ biomes and set each one of those to randomly spawn AI/plants from a given list it would be perfect, you have an idea where to look/go but never certain

[fallen cargo]

It'd be nice for different areas to actually look different tbh

[outer sphinx]

also ofc making AI interact with the system, like grazing, drinking... (ambient AI is included as well)

[urban flax]

Yeah like have AI act like actual AI instead of just game obstacles

But that is the hardest part

[outer sphinx]

dont make AI eat diet plants , just random bushes from the map and so on

[urban flax]

I'm honestly mixed about the direction the AI is going right now, but I can't really find a better alternative

[outer sphinx]

imagine in some years, multiple dinos are in game and Amarock is working on humans for smth, the update comes and he just created IRL Jarvis

[urban flax]

I think Wavepoole might one day convert me to the #removedinoAI gang

[outer sphinx]

Amarock stated in the recent devblog they are reasesing their intent with AI as a whole, looking for a new direction with it, we have been heard

[urban flax]

The fact you can encounter other playable dinos, but have them just be AIs instead of actual people you can interact with kinda bothers me

[urban flax]

Oh, interesting
I hope they will make the right decisions

[outer sphinx]

If they want AI hat can feed larger creatures etc thne just make boars that are big like we have today but at a lower spawn rate, bears, buffalos etc

[urban flax]

Maybe they could do with the old legacy way of having some species limited to be AI only and others be playable only, so when you meet another dino you know wether it's human-controlled or AI, and it also solves some dupes problem (like Acro could be made AI only so that it doesn't need to compete with giga, which will be player only), but it opens up other problems

[outer sphinx]

ambient AI gives them the option to do AI while still maintaining the soul of the game

[fallen cargo]

If they want ai that can fight back add bears

[outer sphinx]

or rhinos

[urban flax]

Like the arbitrary decision of having some dinos be AI only although people would probably want to play them, and it might lead to some bad balance, where some AI dinos are just too weak and uninteresting

[urban flax]

Yeah they could fight back against a Utahraptor
And die to everything else

Cause they're also slower than everything
Except stegos

[outer sphinx]

Ai that large

[fallen cargo]

not entirely true, bears are very strong, itd be a challenge to fight one in a 1v1

[urban flax]

Ai doesn't need to be necessarily tiny. I would be fine with Rex being AI only, although I know most people wouldn't like it.

[urban flax]

Bears are 500 kg average
Isle Utah is 450 kg
What do you expect one to do against a tenonto or a carno ?

[outer sphinx]

Ai is just boring to fight, and having it that big and able to always know where you are...

[urban flax]

You're assuming AI will always know where you are
AI Utah can already lose you and search for you, it reacts to obstacles and even bushes

[limber hull]

we literally have that in the form of boars and goats and shit and yet we're still getting player AI

[fallen cargo]

I feel like we would run into the same issue as AI carno did with ai rex

[urban flax]

I still feel modern AI only is not enough to have the world look alive. With only 100 players per server and 56 playables, we'll never see herds of stegos, brachis in the distance, flocks of pteras roosting on a cliff and hordes of velos, troodons and homalos

[urban flax]

AI carno was just terrible coding-wise

[limber hull]

i think they just need to expand server sizes with better servers, technology and funding

[fallen cargo]

Well player hosted servers have a higher capacity don't they?

[outer sphinx]

ambient AI gives them the option to do AI while still maintaining the soul of the game, this

[fallen cargo]

Agreed, bigger servers would also help with hot spots as not everyone would go pond I'm hoping

[outer sphinx]

At most 150 rn i think

[urban flax]

Even then, I don't think that would be possible to handle enough players, and they won't work into making the Isle feel alive. We can't trust players for that

imo The Isle would need at the very least 500 dinos on the map to look like a living ecosystem

[limber hull]

You'll find diversity if you make engaging playstyles. Legacy didn't do that

Legacy made the same playstyle over and over again with mild tweaks

[lavish quail]

Hmmm what did the conversation turn to now?

[outer sphinx]

AI and ecosystem, as usual

[urban flax]

Even though, imagine you have a 200 players slots server that'd be 4 rexes, 4 troodons, 4 trikes, 4 deinos, 4 stegos, etc... not that much interesting

Okay maybe it's a wrong assumption because of difficulties, having smalls be easier to play and all that but... you see the point, right ?

200 players slots is already huge

[outer sphinx]

I would like to have a rotation system for officials and third party

[fallen cargo]

Could you elaborate?

[outer sphinx]

Loke rotate between pue cama and brachi for ex

This week its pue with bary, spino and rex, next week its... well mintgs is better but you get the jest

Months*

[urban flax]

Seems super frustrating and boring

[fallen cargo]

Idk, I get what you mean but I feel like that's cause people to not play when they're dino main isn't in rotation causing lower server pops

[barren zephyr]

That's due to bloated lists of the playables and limited server pop

[limber hull]

pue is gone man

they killed it

[outer sphinx]

You wouldn't loose your dino, only for the new people or those that died

[barren zephyr]

But trust me, if we didn't have 2-3 dinos doing the same niche over
We'd have far better healthy population of creatures

[urban flax]

Yes, I'm trying to think of solutions to have that huge list of playables be actually viable for gameplay

[barren zephyr]

There was a charm in legacy for it having a compact number of carni's and herbies

[urban flax]

Still seems super frustrating and boring

[outer sphinx]

Thats why there are so many overlaps in the roster

[barren zephyr]

There was in theory, less amount of creatures stepping on each other's toes in niches

[limber hull]

lmao, man, i felt in legacy that literally every fucking carnivore basically was the same

just different sizes and stats

sometimes they had a special ability unique to them

[barren zephyr]

Which is why I said in theory

I suspect the special abilites are more or less a stopgap than a solution to this problem

Without them it'd be far worse in evrima

Especially in the future

[limber hull]

oh yea, if we had legacy style gamplay with this roster, utter shitshow

[barren zephyr]

We've got Bary/Sucho/Spino/Cherry flirting all with the wading fisher niche

Allo/Alberto/Acro being the generalists hunters

[urban flax]

That's what fictionalization is for

[barren zephyr]

I know

But I'm saying that theres a ridiculous amount of playables occupying too similar niches

Which goes back to your earlier point, you will never reliably see Stego herds and the like

[urban flax]

That's also why I thought of separating them into playable only/AI only, although that would somewhat be a repeat of legacy
Bary, spino and sucho are too similar ? Bomm, Sucho is AI now
Rex, alberto and allo fill the same role ? Just make alberto into AI

[limber hull]

egh, i hate that

[barren zephyr]

Because of the swathe amount of creatures and other creatures just outright being able to occupy a niche "just enough" to make natural herds almost impossible

[limber hull]

idk why but i hate that

like it just feels like it'd absolutely cuck some person who really wanted their new playable in EVRIMA and "haha it's AI only"

[barren zephyr]

Why tf would you ever play Stego if Anky does it better

[urban flax]

It's not the best idea, just the best one I can find
Still better than playing as rex, then you meet another rex, say "hello bud" and it just turns out to be AI and attacks you

[limber hull]

because they're different entirely lmao

[barren zephyr]

No no

[fallen cargo]

It would be better if you said why play Steg when you could play Kentro

[urban flax]

Yes that's the main problem
Maybe they could fiddle with gamemodes so every dino would be playable in some specific gamemode ?

[barren zephyr]

Listen, they both cover the tanky flank defense gameplay style
Only difference is that Anky is straight up much more viable in doing that job compared to Stego

[urban flax]

Like in evrima, apexes are AI only, there's another gamemode where all carnis are playables but every herbi is AI only, etc...

[limber hull]

anky is lower damage, lower speed, higher fracture, higher defence and basically a slow moving bastard that can't die to 90% of the roster

[fallen cargo]

Yeah

[limber hull]

again, I dislike that

just... IDK, I'm huge on player agency

[urban flax]

What do you like then ? Apat from just removing them

Lets assume there's no other solution than having dino AI in the game. How should devs do it ?

[limber hull]

Hard disagree, stego would likely be a quicker grow and be able to handle predators anky cannot. Also, anky is going to see a whole lot less fun and engaging action than a stego

if the AI REPLACES players, especially in roles people would very much like to play, I'm not a fan

[barren zephyr]

They don't need to be one to one. I'm saying that if Anky does the job just enough, why would you ever pick Stego?
It clearly doesn't have the speed to justify it enough to pick it like Kentro does
Sure it might apply bleed, but Anky just simply needs to do the job just enough to outright make it more of a better pick

[limber hull]

Like, outright hate it

[fallen cargo]

Steg is an apex herbi, more hp and stuff, anky isn't from what I know atleast

[limber hull]

it is

[lavish quail]

Anky is an apex herbi

I just got food as a babu utah time to join this conversation

[fallen cargo]

Ah didn't know, I didn't play too much legacy so I'm just going off of limited memory lol

[barren zephyr]

This goes back to the same point with Bary/Sucho
Why would you ever pick Bary, unless you specifically want a bit more speed to it
Even if you did, it's not like it's gonna compete just as well as Cera/Allo will in terrestrial play
Picking Bary is essentially playing a niche version of an already established animal role

[limber hull]

Probably because anky is a playstyle for people who want to play a more simple creature. Anky sees less combat, its too slow to ever choose its own fights so its predators will always catch it and it doesn't get the satisfaction of a kill, more relying on fracture to make the animal leave. Yes, anky could be more "viable", however, not everyone wants to play a slow animal with little control over when it fights. Anky is just a peaceful giant and that's what it should be

[barren zephyr]

You could argue it'd give player's more "freedom" in choices. But this goes back to the bloated playable issue

Sometimes less is more

[limber hull]

I really personally find anky and stego's co-existence fine tbh, I feel both bring a lot to the table

[lavish quail]

can baby utahs pounce boars?

[barren zephyr]

And yes I know that servers may eventually "manage the roster"
But I'm seeing things fundamentally as they are right now with everything in one package
I'd argue that most of the roster needs to be culled to trim redundancy

I'd cull Acro, Alberto, Homalo, Dilo, Velo, Bary, Giga, Spino, Maia, Shant, Anky, Dryo to start

Clear them out to freshen the roster

[fallen cargo]

heck naw you cant get rid of dilo

[barren zephyr]

Tough one I know, but it requires will to do so

[outer sphinx]

dilo, giga, spino, schant, anky and maia def are good, the rest is understandable

[fallen cargo]

legit doesnt make sense to do, troo doesnt even take dilos neich

[barren zephyr]

Troodon doesn't

[outer sphinx]

nor does utah

[barren zephyr]

But Utah fulfils the role of pack hunter punching up
You could argue all day on how bleed/venom, and playstyle circumstances are all different. I agree
But it's the matter of how it achieves the function at the end of the day.

Which is to apply itself as a versatile all round pack hunter.

[outer sphinx]

same does allo for the most part

[barren zephyr]

Troodon may pack hunt, but it's smaller size allows to explore other niches and possibly engage with burrowers, or other smalls.

[fallen cargo]

We only know legacy dilo, we don't know what or how exactly the Dino's will react in Evrima, dilo could be very different from how it was in legacy

[outer sphinx]

beeing a pack hunter is nothing, all dinos can and will make groups so everybody is a pack hunter

[barren zephyr]

That's...

[outer sphinx]

we actually know a decent amount about dilo, like how it will hunt, the fact it is only a night hunter

we have concept art for it afterall

[barren zephyr]

Kind of not a good standpoint.
Utah in conception is designed to work as a team, and despite it's small size. Can bring ridiculously larger prey because of it's function

[outer sphinx]

same is troo, kinda same is allo

[barren zephyr]

Sure two Cera's might team up and make a gang
But the functions of Utah allow it to pack hunt, better, more efficiently. And in higher number counts then Cera could.
Utah will hunt far larger prey more proficiently than Cera will because it's ingrained in the dna of Utah's function.

[lavish quail]

Why dilo Dryo and bary!

[fallen cargo]

Everything is better in a group, but yeah Utah is mainly supposed to be in a group, which is where dilo can differ from it, becoming useful on its own as well, atleast to some extent

[outer sphinx]

dryo kinda ig but the same idea could be put for every other small dino

[lavish quail]

Dryo is our boy

[barren zephyr]

Bary is speedy Sucho
It's fluff

[lavish quail]

he gonna be the base for burrowing

[outer sphinx]

night dryo > burrower dryo

[lavish quail]

Bary is part of the bad time trio!

[fallen cargo]

Why not night/burrower dryo

[barren zephyr]

Dryo is fake Galli, and giving it googly eyes for night is lazy

[lavish quail]

I can see them being both, residing in the burrow at day

[lavish quail]

I deny your cowardly logic

[fallen cargo]

There's a way to make the Dino's different and fun other than just out right removing them

[barren zephyr]

Not enough to justify it clear enough to fulfil a function's role in the game.

[outer sphinx]

dryo doesnt make sense for a burrower, nor the beak nor the hands suppoert that, minmi, proto are much better burrowers

[lavish quail]

Also why get rid of something we already have?

[lavish quail]

Base for burrowing

[lavish quail]

shhhhh

[outer sphinx]

herra for ex

[limber hull]

i absolutely believe nocturnal dryo seems great as a niche

[outer sphinx]

no

[outer sphinx]

also will be the first of its kind

[barren zephyr]

If nocturnal is expanded upon "see good at night" then sure

I can see that

[limber hull]

we have literally no confirmed herbi nocturnal reps

[outer sphinx]

dryo will get a better dodge so making it nocturnal just makes sense

[lavish quail]

Here is a gif for dryo fans

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[barren zephyr]

Again, dryo is a discount galli atm, giving it better dodge doesn't change that. Giving it burrow capabilities puts in an awkward place with the other more defined burrowers.

[lavish quail]

Giving it a better dodge most certainly will help

[barren zephyr]

With Evrima dryo, there's not enough to utilize it's argument as a clear and strong niche filling

[outer sphinx]

nocturnal herbi... there is literally 0 contest for this

[lavish quail]

People like legacy more even though nothing has a niche

[limber hull]

If they want dryo to be a knockoff galli, make it a nocturnal knockoff galli and it immediately have legs to stand on

[barren zephyr]

Dryo and Dilo are fan favs of mine too
But I'm arguing from a place of just general game design

[lavish quail]

Also dryo already exists in the game

why get rid of it

[outer sphinx]

dilo is def unique enough, no matter how boring venom in media dinos is its def not alberto

[limber hull]

Deino and dryo are two reps that absolutely deserve nocturnal habits NV

[barren zephyr]

I know, but it's existence is a flaw

[outer sphinx]

seeing deino eyes at night

[lavish quail]

Take that back you coward

[barren zephyr]

Which is now a natural flaw existing apart of the game

[lavish quail]

Pov; you're nacen

https://tenor.com/view/wojak-soyboy-omg-yes-omg-oh-my-god-gif-21270967

[outer sphinx]

you're*

[lavish quail]

ty for your contribution to my insult

[barren zephyr]

If suppose this game was to reduce it's flaws
All of the earlier mentioned above playables would be culled

[lavish quail]

Thats bad we dont like that

[outer sphinx]

imo acro and alberto are the only ones that really have nothing special that can be made about them

[lavish quail]

Bary is part of the bad time trio of small animal bullys

[barren zephyr]

Which is kind of the point of balance and design
Trim the fat. Scrap the cool but not ideal concepts
Never achieve but strive for perfection.

[limber hull]

i genuinely believe dryo can add more than you let on. Again, confirmed nocturnal reps are rare, so a nocturnal herbi immediately becomes far more intriguing than having our only two nocturnals be venom carnis

[lavish quail]

Whats wrong with dilo?? Its quite literally one of the classics and it fills a spot with venom that already will exist

[outer sphinx]

bary for one could have interesting uses for its claws, could be a very agile swimmer in deep water, and fast, fast on land and water to evade what it cant fight on the respective terrain

[barren zephyr]

That's supposing dryo has nocturnal abilites, which. It doesn't

[lavish quail]

But it probably will

[limber hull]

but it can

[lavish quail]

Night vision doesnt even exist yet

[limber hull]

so why immediately dismiss the concept

NOTHING has nocturnal abilities yet

[outer sphinx]

you can say dryo is uselss bc gali ripoff etc when we know its dodge will get reworked

[barren zephyr]

Sure, but you guys are missing the point
Read carefully
""Current"" Dryo has no reason to exist in the game as it is because of the lack of justification

[lavish quail]

Gali is just a dryo ripoff cull it

[barren zephyr]

Current

[limber hull]

I can at least agree to that

Current dryo fucking sucks and, yes, it has fans, but it has such little compelling niches compared to say, pachy or teno

[lavish quail]

Dryo rn is just food but its fun to play and you dont have to spend 400 years growing it like everything else

ive been sitting in a bush here with a utah far before this conversation even started

[barren zephyr]

Hypsi at the least can climb trees
That's enough to justify it's existence, from the future

[lavish quail]

Not everyone has 6h to grow something

[lavish quail]

So can herra and probably utah

[outer sphinx]

hypsi is shit rn aswell, it doesnt have climb, so then why dismiss dryo but talk about what hypsi will get

[lavish quail]

Favouritism smh

[barren zephyr]

Yeah, but Hypsi is a herbie
Utah I imagine won't do it as efficently as the former two
Again, Cera can pack up like a Utah to bring down large prey
But Utah's functions cement it to do that role far more proficiently

[lavish quail]

DRYO IS A HERBIIII

[barren zephyr]

Because Hypsi will eventually climb
"Current" Hypsi has no reason to exist, but it will eventually

[lavish quail]

SO WILL DRYO

[outer sphinx]

the same can be said about dryo

[lavish quail]

bruhhhhh

[barren zephyr]

Same can't be said for Dryo
Not in any concepts

[outer sphinx]

we know dodge is getting reworked and who knows what more they give it

[barren zephyr]

guys

[lavish quail]

We saw a prototype video for their burrowing and lets be honest its gonna have great night vision

[barren zephyr]

I'm not arguing viability here
I'm arguing the justification of niche role fulfillment

I know dryo will be more viable, but I'm arguing functions

[limber hull]

literally, all they need to do is give dryo night vision and it immediately has a niche that I would 100% play it for

[lavish quail]

^^^

[barren zephyr]

True, it'd be boring. But enough to justify it

[lavish quail]

You might aswell cull half the roster with that reasoning

[outer sphinx]

add food that feeds better at night and even better, like flowers etc

[limber hull]

obviously, it needs more than that, but that's SOMETHING at least

[barren zephyr]

Lmao, read above. That's what I posted

[lavish quail]

You posted a list of 50% perfectly fine dinos

[barren zephyr]

I'm practically arguing to cull a large portion of the roster

[lavish quail]

"I'd cull Acro, Alberto, Homalo, Dilo, Velo, Bary, Giga, Spino, Maia, Shant, Anky, Dryo to start"

[barren zephyr]

Yes, it's passable as that something

"passable"

[lavish quail]

Dilo is a nightime hunter that uses paralysis to eat you alive whats not unique about that

[limber hull]

dilo and troodon have enough different that i can justify them both existing

mimicry vs hallucinations

[lavish quail]

Bary is a semi-aquatic that can maintain high speeds on land and water and can chose its fights incredibly easily comparing to the other water creatures we have which rely on chance and fish

Dryo could have what we just discussed

[fallen cargo]

It'd be cool if dilo venom made the target hear footsteps running at it from a random direction

[lavish quail]

Idek what a homalo is so its obviously miles off

[barren zephyr]

Again, read earlier
We can argue how cool and unique the different playstyles all day
I agree Dilo is unique
But with how it functions and the result at the end of the day isn't enough

[outer sphinx]

oh it def needs to have some form of audible effect to make it viable bc otherwise its shit

[lavish quail]

Giga is basically the only thing viable to hunt large creatures like brachi and shant

[lavish quail]

Make them hear dilo calls too

[barren zephyr]

The consequential result of Dilo's existence is the issue

[lavish quail]

what is the issue with dilo

There is nothing wrong with my boy

[barren zephyr]

We're going in circles again. What are we arguing about to recap, just so we're on the same page

[limber hull]

i can even accept 7 different ceratopsians lmao

[lavish quail]

Cut all the ceratopsians good point

[limber hull]

which is the number of confirmed ceratopsians for EVRIMA thusfar

[lavish quail]

Could be more

[barren zephyr]

I'm not arguing to cull cool viable creatures

[outer sphinx]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/758104734425939998/902588409619558500/726320006685655110-1.gif

[lavish quail]

Then why get rid of dilo and bary!

and dryo!

[barren zephyr]

I'm arguing to cull dino's that don't differentiate in niche placements enough to justify it existing.

[lavish quail]

Wut

Troodon and Dilo are barely similar

[barren zephyr]

Even if the creature has cool gimmicks and wacky playstyles
If it serves no real role, other than a role already being filled. Than it from a design standpoint should be culled.

[outer sphinx]

oh wow so many versions of trike, trike but fractures, trike but worse, trike but smaller, trike but smaller and faster

[lavish quail]

"Lets add troodon with its own mechanic never to be used again"

[outer sphinx]

rhino, styraco, dible, ava

[limber hull]

both troo and dilo have very very unique mechanics

[lavish quail]

That makes no sense

[limber hull]

and also, i cannot think of an animal that serves no "role"

[outer sphinx]

alberto and acro, go

[limber hull]

even anky, the mostly unkillable powerhouse that it is, would still be preyed upon by rex

[lavish quail]

Most dinosaurs are the same thing with slight differences

After all "It isnt a theropod if it isnt smooth bland and basically the same"

[barren zephyr]

Existing as prey isn't a strong argument for a role
Or a function
From that same argument, if I made a one to one copy of an existing herbie, but made it more possible for a specific carni to eat it. That wouldn't exactly be a role other than food.

[lavish quail]

Then why do you not want and ceratopsians cut.

Im sensing a major herbivore bias here

[limber hull]

then every herbi is shit, because every herbi exists as prey to something

[barren zephyr]

What are you talking about lol, I never said that

[lavish quail]

two seconds

[lavish quail]

"I'd cull Acro, Alberto, Homalo, Dilo, Velo, Bary, Giga, Spino, Maia, Shant, Anky, Dryo to start"

I dont know what a homalo is but if it exists i really dont care

[barren zephyr]

You're not getting it
Okay making it simpler, if I spawn as food as a playable. It's not a good argument that the food I just spawned as isn't a justification as a role to be filled in the ecosystem.

[lavish quail]

What i care about is our boys

[barren zephyr]

Wasn't aware of the number of ceratopsians

[lavish quail]

7 or more

also why would we get rid of them? the more the merrier as long as their all different in some way

[barren zephyr]

But I'd cull them too if they're similar enough and are only faster, stronger, or more agile versions of each other

[lavish quail]

Carno in theory is just a faster and weaker cera and utah is a faster and weaker cera too, and troodon is a faster and weaker cera, and compy is a faster and weaker cera

Why would we get rid of something if its gonna be completely different to play

Dilo isnt remotely the same as troodon

Plus you forgot we're getting magy; which is currently just food you cant eat by the looks of it

[barren zephyr]

Because it leads to the issue of sandbox redundancy.
Happens often in say an fps game
Some guns are in the same categeories doing the same job. Some will always be outright better. Leaving all the other guns as only niche or throwaway playstyles.
Difference being as that the dino's aren't guns. They have to and must be separate enough in order to sustain a healthy population otherwise possible another interactivity in the ecosystem is fucked. Like a Carni that needs to eat that type. Or other Herbies just being outright better.

[lavish quail]

Its a survival game

[barren zephyr]

This is why we're using the terms such as "bloated roster"

[lavish quail]

it takes time to grow different dinos

if you cut half the roster im either staying here for something that will die really fucking fast or something that cant physically die at all

Wanna list of all the dinos in your dm's? then you can filter through how many you want cut

[barren zephyr]

Again, the argument that it's a survial game doesn't apply
Remember what we were talking about to bring it back
I'm not arguing viability
I'm arguing justification to cull for clear function

[lavish quail]

Thats dumb

i want more dinos not all different ones

If i wanted to go on the game and say; hey i want to play this and only do this for the game that would suck assss

[barren zephyr]

Then we disagree then
I want more different dinos
You just want more dinos with twists on prexisting ones

[lavish quail]

everything is a twist on pre-existing ones

They're all gonna be different anyway

[barren zephyr]

I'm not arguing on reducing interactivity

[lavish quail]

I lost what you were arguing like 30 minutes ago

[barren zephyr]

In fact, it's possible culling the roster would increase interactivity with healthier pops of creatures

[lavish quail]

All i can tell from this interaction is that you dont want dinos in teh dinosaur game

[barren zephyr]

Reducing roster inclusions that don't justify it existing from a functional role standpoint

[barren zephyr]

"I want more different dinos "

[lavish quail]

Put it in baby words so i can nitpick at that statement more

The loganalm please save me

wavepool left me for a more reasonable conversation

[barren zephyr]

Culling the roster if they don't serve enough different mechanics as their own role

[lavish quail]

So only have 1 dino in each catagory?

[barren zephyr]

Depends what you mean

[lavish quail]

What hunts dryo troodon?

[barren zephyr]

Carno

[lavish quail]

if there isnt any nocturnal animals other than troodon what does troodon hunt

Like its killing a teno max

I dont see it making that big of an impact

I lost this again

where are we at?

[barren zephyr]

Okay to bring it back on point again

[lavish quail]

theloganalm is typing a large paragraph here

[barren zephyr]

Say for example Herrara right?

[lavish quail]

herra can climb trees

thats its thing i guess

[barren zephyr]

It can tree climb
Other playables from different roles might tree climb
But no one can do it as good or as proficiently as Herrara can

[lavish quail]

(hypsi)

[barren zephyr]

That's a role
Relating back to the Cera and Utah example

[lavish quail]

Cera bullys you from bodys utah hunts in packs

Other things hunt in packs

[barren zephyr]

Nono
What I mean is that sure Cera can group up and hunt big prey
But Utah's specialized functions allow it to do that job better and more proficiently
Other playables might tree climb, but it doesn't take away that Herrera is the best at it and takes advantages in it's role.

[lavish quail]

isnt cera a cannibal

[barren zephyr]

Uhh yeah

[lavish quail]

So its not grouping up much

And isnt it too slow and big to hunt large prey?

[outer sphinx]

allo might be the same for all we know, and troo def is the same

[lavish quail]

Theloganalm is still typing im getting scared now

[barren zephyr]

Difference is, Cera could potentially do that, even though it's main role is to be a corpse bully
Utah could scavenge and corpse bully as well
But who does pack hunting that best? -Utah
Who does corpse bullying/scavenging the best? -Cera

[lavish quail]

I mean rex will definitely do it better

And i imagine allo will probably pack hunt better too

[barren zephyr]

Other playable might tree climb, but ultimately, Herrera does it the best. That is a role.

[lavish quail]

Ugh so why get rid of dilo

[barren zephyr]

Idk if Rex can eat rotten gore, we know Cera is gonna do that well

[outer sphinx]

rex might be able to eat the bones

[lavish quail]

Probably cause it can bite through them

How does it even navigate to that?

[barren zephyr]

True, but Cera is gonna scavenge the best compared to the competition
Which is it's role, scavenger

[lavish quail]

what if it wants to eat teno bones?

[outer sphinx]

if there is a creature to eat bones it is rex and deino

[lavish quail]

teno is definitely to small to position yourself

[lavish quail]

Isnt rex its competition?

Also why get rid of dilo and dryo

And cant bary fish better than sucho cause its faster and could probably swim after the fish

[barren zephyr]

Yes, competition is encouraged. But ultimately one does it better.
Which is Cera, Rex might eat up corpses and bully better. But eating rotten food and terrible aged meat is what gives Cera the edge as the better scavenger.

[lavish quail]

But couldnt a rex stop it from eating that meat

also cant deino eat rotten meat

[barren zephyr]

What argument is strong enough to justify them existing outside viable or cool abilites?

[last lily]

I think one of the major issues with the point is the fact of advocating for the culling of multiple perfectly fine species that can bring something to the game, or lack of creativity(Nocturnal Dyro hours). As well as saying how some creatures are redundant... .Ei: following the logic provided Allo is just a Big Utah and so Utah has no reason to be in the game.. When that is hardly the case. Likewise, why play Carno when you have Alberto. People LIKE sub classes, and experiences that are similar but bring new flavors and tastes and that is an OBJECTIVE matter seen in most genres.

Demoman-Demoknight

Like playing Stego and want a similar but different creature? Here's Anky. Don't like how slow Sucho is, and its more brawly nature and want something more devilish and streamlined? Here's Baryonyx. Some playables can be scrapped just fine, but others can and do genuinely work. I'll agree though, Acro is kinda screwed but most of the others you listed are perfectly fine and can work. Also if roles/niches are a problem, keep in mind: Rex and Deinosuchus could easily bully things off corpses better than Cerato can, doesn't mean to get rid of Rex, Deino or Cera because they all work in their own way.

Alberto is a slower bulkier carno with a higher damage, you can mess with that on a gameplay and design perspective, while keeping carno unique through its charge mechanics, and preference towards smaller game. Or Rex and Alberto: don't like Rex's slow speed and ambush nature?

[lavish quail]

HE FINISHED ITT

[lavish quail]

Dryo is a speedy fast boy that can burrow during day and have the edge during night, dilo can paralyse its prey and eat them alive and actually be scary like the game advertises itself to be

[outer sphinx]

thus why we have the pseudo classification for some creatures

[lavish quail]

listen to him hes smart

[last lily]

That they're distinct playables with unique opportunities. Don't want to be a Troodon? Want a somewhat heavier dutier bleeder with hallucinagenic venom, nasty bite, claws and a evil bastard? Enjoy! Want a speed smaller Galli, that could offer more adrenaline and quicker grow times than Galli? Enjoy(also give it night vision, could make it unique, and also tie in with more game mechanics). You can explore different things with them, and still make them stand out. Why have Tenoto when we have Maia? Because the two play differently, despite being similar.

[lavish quail]

Listen to him hes smart

[outer sphinx]

in another way ,it can described like destiny, you have the classes, sub classes and perks and exotics to give an even more specific role

[lavish quail]

I miss when destiny was good

[outer sphinx]

im loving it so far

[lavish quail]

You'll lose your love when you run out of pve and end up in pvp

the handcannon shotguns in crucible give me ptsd

[outer sphinx]

well rn im leveling up getting loot so not much time for pvp, but evne there, it wasnt all bad, prbo bc i dont want to play trials lol

[lavish quail]

Never play trails, Never play iron banner, and never play crucible in general

[last lily]

Exactly!! I lean more towards say Evolve, or TF2 comparisons though, ei: Goliath and Behemoth. Both close quarters heavy monsters, but each taking it in their own way. Or Stock Pyro vs Dragonfury pyro(same class, but with a twist and spin on it that is still enjoyable and satisfying)

Kraken is a flying monster with ranged heavy attacks. Elder Kraken is a flying monster with an emphasis on close range and melee combat.. BOOM! Same monster, but now made in such a way where it feels and handles differently and in such a way that's enjoyable.

[lavish quail]

unless its with a friend you wont have a good time

[last lily]

||Don't do Evolve Microtransactions though unless you want your game to die..||

[lavish quail]

Listen to him hes smart

[barren zephyr]

I know this is a short response, but this goes back to the example with guns in fps
It's perfectly okay to have sub classes or metas. Even some guns outperforming others in the same results
But the difference being is that the "guns" have lifespans, and in impact in the ecosystem. Healthy pops of dino's will suffer from a large encompassing roster.
Having one smg just be usually better than the others in it's class isn't that big of a deal in an fps. Since it's only based on player expression or preference.
Yet in this case playables can suffer, or just not be picked. Which also might lead to unhealthy pops of certain creatures where they shouldn't be. Giving so much player expression muddies the sandbox.

[outer sphinx]

i've been having a decent time with what loot i have rn in crubible i have to say, will get a better idea once i reach true endgame

[lavish quail]

Hence servers being able to chose their roster eventually lul

[barren zephyr]

Yes, but it's only a stopgap, not a solution to the flaw of it's design

[lavish quail]

You need a godroll handcannon and any slug shotgun, warlock is the only viable class to play there

[lavish quail]

I mean the more the merrier

[outer sphinx]

there is also the thing of one thing is good but with skill everything is good, great example are the weapons and titans in TF|2

[lavish quail]

People want a different experience every time they play

[barren zephyr]

Not always, which is why the term "bloated" roster comes from

[lavish quail]

Tf2 was actually godlike

[outer sphinx]

me who was using smgs and fighting lion and fragging for a good bit

[lavish quail]

You poor soul, youve only entered the low light area

[outer sphinx]

i mastered the game and became one of the best of the remaining 2000 players for it to become unplayable

[outer sphinx]

nah not really, i just suck at pvp rn

[lavish quail]

Dw half the guns have auto aim

Just grind dungeons for years until you get a god role

[outer sphinx]

has 5 god rolls of each of the new guns

[lavish quail]

Lucky af

0 godroles 0 exotics I actually want 10000 hours

Thelogalm is typing again fear his logic and reasoning

[last lily]

Except that's not the case. Some people straight up just enjoy different things. Who cares if say : HBG or LBG has stupid high versatility and power in speed run times and damage output(DPS). Doesn't stop people from loving Lance, Gunlance, Longsword, Hammer, or Greatsword.. If it's fun: people will like it. If there's an absence of a particular species, then it might be because of balancing. Look at QA, you still got a bunch of people playing Utah despite its pounce only working half the time if you're lucky. People still enjoy utah even if it's not in the best state.

Or look at Halo's gun sandbox, or L4D2's. Lots of options but since so many of them are good, they'll gradually find their favorites and go with them. With a dinosaur game, you have options and space to explore with how to make a playable unique or fun... as long as it's actually an animal that works in the given environment, which the majority of animals do..... except for Magy because it's just the....perfect storm of bad... You can give Dyro night vision, a better dodge system and a stronger social system just off the top of my head. Similar to Galli?? Well yeah, that's inevitable. Allo and Utah are similar but they both play similar but differently if that makes any sense. What primarily ruins a sandbox is the following: it's just not fun to mess with.. Legacy it was fun when it worked... . However... some games just don't have a particularly interesting sandbox to begin with.

Seeing more variety in the environment is fun and having playables that are similar but unique can possibly get people to branch out overtime. In plenty of games, people will tend to branch out at some point or other. Give them the opportunity to branch out.. Hell they might just find something they like more.

God I'm tired as hell and feel like my body's about to give out on me, why the hell am I still awake.

[lavish quail]

More wisdom

[last lily]

I will admit though: a bigger sandbox does come with more... responsibility and a need to not fuck up game balance.

Ei: the BR in Halo being the sweat lord's go to

||Even though casual players will get bored of the BR and have more fun with other weapons like the Assault rifle, shotgun, etc||

[outer sphinx]

at least they seem to listen to us, at least the more largely atributed stuff, like the carno turn nerf, and AI in general

[lavish quail]

Time to actually read this

[lavish quail]

They read the feedback excluding the feedback in general feedback

[last lily]

Ever look back at something you wrote in a few hours, and get annoyed that you missed something or didn't word something properly? Yeah exhaustion is nice.

[lavish quail]

Dark souls has a bunch of weapons

[outer sphinx]

funilly enough here is where Punch came to understand our issues with the game, dev etc

[outer sphinx]

always

[last lily]

I'll be honest... I like Bloodborne's weapon roster more.. For me it strikes a nice balance of not too much but still enough to keep things enjoyable..while hungering for more.. But we'll never get a Bloodborne 2.

[lavish quail]

Magy is completely fine Sinner

[last lily]

https://youtu.be/WbRn0jzBXWM?t=9

||Timestamped, don't hurt me.||

[barren zephyr]

I agree mostly
But in those games that you mentioned
Overreaching player expression can damage the core sandbox of a game
Evidently in the Halo example, Halo Infinite did the exact same thing and culled alot of prexisting weapons in order to preserve function instead
If we were to say, the Isle had 200 playables(a hyperbole) then grouping or engaging in niches would be blurred in the extremes
Since everything would have to be a sub class of another. I'm not against variety, I want more "different" dinos fulfilling new roles.
In my opinion introducing creatures that introduce new roles is a far better approach to increasing interactivity then the merit of sub classes.

[lavish quail]

I will fight you like I’ll fight The rest magy is perfect

[barren zephyr]

I'm not against "fixing" prexisting creatures either

Noct Dryo is suitable

[limber hull]

whats funny to me is that, despite being considered a horrid animal, magy fufils the exact thing Nacen wanted, an animal that isn't just a clone of another and has a unique space in the ecosystem. You ain't gonna find another tiny sauropod, the thing is so unlike everything of its peers that its really quite unique, for better or for worse

[last lily]

For worse

[lavish quail]

Then why get rid of dilo and dryoooo

[barren zephyr]

Agreed, it might be correct in that stance. But not all roles are inherently "good"
This comes with tweaking though

[lavish quail]

Fight me south of Big Ben December 31st 23:59

[barren zephyr]

Or just fundamental shifts in reimplementation

[last lily]

I think the main issue with Nacen's statement came down to which playables he chose . . Because I kinda do admit some of them are in a rough spot... Acro in particular

[lavish quail]

It’s now a 1v48

[last lily]

I agree on Acro

[barren zephyr]

It was on the top of my head

[last lily]

I like Acro, but...I don't know what the hell you could do with it considering Giga and Acro have it stuck in a fucking sandwich... At least with Sucho, Bary and Spino you have a "aquatic level" situation going on...... if it wasn't for Spino being so..........Unaquatic in design.