general-feedback-discussion

[tawny juniper]

How is it supposed to move fast enough to scavenge

It is a chick

It would have to find abandoned bodies extremely close to its spawn

[dire peak]

After about 10 minutes of growth the Haast would have gained enough feathering for minor bursts of flight. As a juvie it will only really have enough stamina to fly up trees so it still relies on its hoatzin claw. It would still mainly rely on scavenging forest carcasses. The juvie stage is the stage where Haasts unlocks the use of its more offensive flight based abilities so it is still possible to hunt as a juvi using your RMB but it is very risky due to your limited stamina.

[tawny juniper]

After

So for the first ten minutes

You just sit ig?

[abstract lark]

im sure it wont starve in 10 minutes

[hoary dawn]

it could just go to a place it knows there would most likely be corpses

[tawny juniper]

How

It can't fly

[dire peak]

It moves around searching for food in that 10 minutes. If you want to sit around thats your choice

[abstract lark]

smell

[tawny juniper]

and it's a chick

[abstract lark]

or

you know

[hoary dawn]

walk, climb, walk

[abstract lark]

scavenge the area

like walk around and look for it, not be handed it

[tawny juniper]

I think you extremely overestimate what young birds are capable of

[dire peak]

So troodon is worthless because it cant do anything in the first few minutes of its life other than scavenge and kill compys.

[tawny juniper]

Troodon is worthless for the first bit of it's life

so is every small carnivore

[dire peak]

And why you think Haast is different?

[tawny juniper]

But at least they have some sort of mobility

[hoary dawn]

i think surviving 10 minutes of not being able to fly is absolutely possible

[dire peak]

It is

[tawny juniper]

I agree

but you spawn in and do what

[barren zephyr]

10 minutes isn’t much, especially for isle standards when you have 8+ hour grows coming in the future

[sick pond]

every single juvenile of animals smaller than dryo is completely useless, I would say that haast isn't different but it would be able to climb because of how it's fictionalized

[abstract lark]

find food, maybe wait until you can fly

[tawny juniper]

Just sit around until your able to do the one thing you entire gameplay is based off of? Fly?

[barren zephyr]

That’s how ptera works

[tawny juniper]

Ptera can fly from the second you spawn

[dire peak]

Its fictionalized, and isnt a completely stationary chick like in real life. Consider that.

[abstract lark]

it can make one leap and then it has no stam

[tawny juniper]

and haast?

[abstract lark]

can walk around faster than a ptera can on land

[tawny juniper]

Consider that you literally wrote that it couldn't fly

[sick pond]

haast juvie can climb

[tawny juniper]

With it's hands?

[hoary dawn]

having to wait a minuscule amount of time to be able to fly makes much more sense for a bird than being able to fly as a hatchling

[barren zephyr]

with its balls

[sick pond]

wing claws, did you read the doc?

[dire peak]

Yes because it has fictionalized hoatzin claws. Consider reading the doc. And consider that it can climb around, also in the doc.

[sick pond]

it's fictionalized because playing a baby bird for 10 minutes would be boring

you're kinda right in that sense

[abstract lark]

alot of dinosaurs arent fun until adult

[dire peak]

10 or so minutes pass, and you can do burst flights and move around and hunt

[tawny juniper]

you wait ten minutes, and then you can just fly easily

How does that make sense

[dire peak]

not fly easily

burst flights

[barren zephyr]

hatchling stage

[sick pond]

it's a gradual change from small flaps to full flight, says so in the doc

[dire peak]

pay attention

[barren zephyr]

oooooo

[tawny juniper]

I'm not reading a 3 page doc on why they should add mini pt to the game

[barren zephyr]

@thorny lynx

[tawny juniper]

I'll skim through it sure

[sick pond]

and yet you would argue with the author about it for longer than it would take to read the actual document

[thorny lynx]

Yes?

[dire peak]

Skim through it, to give more empty criticism?

[thorny lynx]

I have been summoned.

[tawny juniper]

But it seems like the entire reason it should be added is because it is a feathered dino that flies and can dive stuff

[barren zephyr]

do you like haast

[thorny lynx]

Not really.

[barren zephyr]

i am thinking of posting this tomorrow what do u guys think?

fair

[hoary dawn]

dont criticize a doc you haven't read

[dire peak]

lo

[thorny lynx]

It's just a giant eagle.

[tawny juniper]

I've read enough of it to understand

[tawny juniper]

agreed

[barren zephyr]

This i think is a interesting concept for the isle and i really think they should introduce it.

Creeks/springs - They are meant to serve as a clean source of drinking water for smaller dinosaurs and not available to drink as larger ones as it is to little water, it would also be a place where smaller fish could swim up and for example Juvie - sub adult suchos and spinos could feed later in development cycle of the game and depending form where the creek comes from the water will be safe, get sick from drinking it or it could be as a part of your diet as a juve - sub adult dinosaur to drink spring/creek water.

here is an example of what that would look like

[dire peak]

Clearly you dont.

[barren zephyr]

there is a cool doc

[sick pond]

it seems, it looks like, i'll skim, but god forbid I actually read the document to give reasonable criticism

[barren zephyr]

in general feedback

[tawny juniper]

It's just not worth my time to read it, considering everything I have read just seems like loopholes so you can fly and divebomb stuff sooner

[abstract lark]

so why argue against it then if you cant even be bothered to read up on it

[tawny juniper]

"for the first ten minutes of it's like it climbs around with the hands we added to its wings, then after that it can lift off after non successfully flying for all of it's life. Now it can fly fine and will divebomb things 10x its size!"

There is no reason to play haast with pt in the game

[abstract lark]

lmao

[tawny juniper]

Pt can do everything haast does but better except climb

the most interesting thing about haast would be the fact that it can climb

[hoary dawn]

their hunting styles are completely different

[tawny juniper]

pt doesn't hunt

So fair point

Haast is pt, except it kills things

ok

[dire peak]

Your arguements :
Its a juvi hypsi - It has nothing to do with hypsi other than size
It cant do much in early life stages : Other carnivores around its size are the same
It cant hunt anything anyways : It can. Stop underestimating large raptors

[abstract lark]

ptera is a fisher, haast hunts terrestrial prey

[hoary dawn]

pretty much everything about them is different except the fact they both fly

[barren zephyr]

dondi

[stray holly]

Ok but how about my suggestion? 0-0

[barren zephyr]

haast

[tawny juniper]

Your arguments:
it flies
it can kill stuff with diving

[dire peak]

My arguement is the doc we made

[barren zephyr]

your: arguments
_ _
_ _
_ _

[dire peak]

Against your vague arguements

[sick pond]

the problem is you refuse to read our arguments lmao

[dire peak]

Exactly

[barren zephyr]

i always kill my onw

[hoary dawn]

me too

[tawny juniper]

Like I said about hypsi comparison that was for it's size, its stats are unrelated
I agreed carnivores around it's size are bd as juvies
I've said it could kill stuff
you made all of this up 🤡

[sick pond]

lmao clown emoji

[barren zephyr]

you just got ratioed

[abstract lark]

this reminds me of the whole dinosaur morale idea they had, sparring pachys as pachys could benefit your dinosaur, so yeah its sorta been talked about before and is a cool idea imo

[sick pond]

but anyway, have you read the doc yet?

[hoary dawn]

so what exactly are your arguments

[dire peak]

You said it wouldnt do much

Stop lying, please

If you think small carnis in early stages cant hunt much, what is your problem?

[stray holly]

Hey thanks man ☺️

[abstract lark]

you also said it was worse than ptera, which im sure haast would bully a ptera, seen as haast has more dangerous encounters where as ptera just fishs and lives an easy life

[abstract lark]

no problem

[dire peak]

Sorry Persian, this is taking longer than it should

[stray holly]

No worries

[abstract lark]

also persian what do you mean by incentive to fight, as in make them stronger or give them the morale boost as i said or what?

[barren zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-isle-eagle-kaperoo-brax-gif-20307267

[stray holly]

Give them a reason to spar with each other instead of it just being an aesthetic thing. Whether it be for a morale boost or to increase their attack/defensive ability.

Is what I was going for.

[abstract lark]

maybe something that goes with the whole nesting system

idk how that would work actually

[barren zephyr]

the typing

[stray holly]

Waiting for CarterWoj to send his message:

https://tenor.com/view/sweating-nervous-paranoid-gif-4974019

[barren zephyr]

^

[honest sparrow]

Hope it gets a New York Times best selling novel award

[barren zephyr]

watch it be one sentence

@thorny lynx

[abstract lark]

let him take his time, as long as it can be a sensible answer then im fine with waiting

[stray holly]

It’ll be one word when he’s done.

“Hoesmad?”

[barren zephyr]

"joe mama"

[tawny juniper]

Sorry this took so long I was afk, Just bc it doesn't really make sense

[barren zephyr]

told you

[tawny juniper]

jk

For the first ten minutes of it's like, the only thing you can do is climb? which is not useful sitting in a bush is arguably better.
Once you can finally fly you're gonna get bodied by pteras and quetz in the air, and then everything on the ground
It's so small it would only be able to really kill things the size of dryo and smaller, I understand the doc says things 10x the size, but that is never going to be balanced if you can be kill a galli with something that takes 35 minutes to grow. (I understand the doc says 80, But the life stages says that once you adult and subadult have the same game-play, therefore I am just going to say it takes 35 minutes because the only things that change are stats, it's also only the size of a hypsi so doesn't rlly make sense to be 80 minutes)
It's just a large eagle (I understand the doc says something about how deino is just a large alligator) But there are already fliers, so the only unique thing haast would be bring to the table would be that it flies and hunts, which is something quetz is supposed to do iirc, At least deino and mega bring something unique to the table gameplay wise.
Haast size is comparable to that of a hypsi (admitted to by one of the docs creators) Therefor it wouldn't make sense to be an 80 minute grow (mentioned in an earlier argument) Especially considering that it isn't big enough to have a large healthpool. It would be too easy to kill something that took 80 minutes to grow.
Roster is capped at 56 (said by kissen) so there isn't room for it to be added.

I am going to leave now

I have better things to do with my time

[sick pond]

didn't ask

[stray holly]

ROFL

[dire peak]

Oh man.

[honest sparrow]

Dissection time bois

[sick pond]

sorry too long, not reading that

[barren zephyr]

longer than the doc

[icy lion]

@jovial hazel @barren zephyr Don't think I can't see you two. Be civil.

That goes for all of you

[dire peak]

We are

[barren zephyr]

?

whos wheelday

[stray holly]

???

[barren zephyr]

superlarry

[hoary dawn]

wheelday

[barren zephyr]

he was innocent

[dire peak]

It's just a large eagle (I understand the doc says something about how deino is just a large alligator) But there are already fliers, so the only unique thing haast would be bring to the table would be that it flies and hunts, which is something quetz is supposed to do iirc, At least deino and mega bring something unique to the table gameplay wise.

[abstract lark]

1: sitting in a bush isnt fun, you could easily play the game and walk around, try find food, (or die that happens on an island full of dinosaurs, not everything is guaranteed living out life)
2: being bodied by quetz and pteras can be avoided by, trying to escape them, not running in the open as a youngling (you know, being a generally smart person can increase your chances of life)
3: by gameplay style they meant hunting. not being the same power.
4: if we can added smaller AI fliers whats wrong with one more viable flier?
5: the 80 min growth is because when it makes it to full size it can be powerful for the size, giving it a super fast growth and it being as strong as said would be stupid.
6: you can spend alot of time growing anything in the isle and loose it in a flash, thats how the game has worked for a long time now, thats apart of the game.
7: roster cap isnt 100% finalized. and imo i would say it will exceed 56 dinos, so adding a viable eagle would be smart.

:)

[dire peak]

'Its just a large eagle' - not an arguement

'Quetz does the same' - It hunts on the ground, taking proportionately smaller prey. Not the same.

'Deino and Mega brings actual unique gameplay' - They do bring unique gameplay, yet you can say they are just 'bigger version of x animal'. So you just contradicted yourself, since Haast has the potential to do that too.

[sick pond]

not to mention flying hunter isn't a specialized playstyle that can only have one playable just like how there are a lot of terrestrial hunters

[abstract lark]

he had better things to do than argue over a doc he didn even read, discussion over i suppose

[barren zephyr]

To each their own

[dire peak]

I suppose yes.
If someone has valid criticism from this point, feel free to share it. If you dont even bother to read our doc, I would suggest not to dislike it or giving empty criticism in that heartbeat. Dont waste eachother's time, please.

[barren zephyr]

:))

[tawny juniper]

It's not even worth arguing over you guys don't even acknowledge the other points. When someone brings up something somewhat damaging to your point you just say they aren't right and act like that's valid

Don't tell people to critique if you aren't willing to be critiqued

[dire peak]

You didnt even bother to read our doc at first, and didnt give any valid criticism apart from 1 thing. The fresh juvi stage, which we are willing to tweak. Since this isnt finalized. Thank you for that.
We addressed all of the problems with the other arguements you brought up, and we are willing to be critiqued. Thats why we posted the document. Good day.

[tawny juniper]

No. You addressed all of the valid criticism, with. "No you're wrong"

[dire peak]

read this

[dire peak]

and this

Please?

[sick pond]

isn't that just what you're doing? you see our arguments and just say that they have no substance despite how well thought out they are

[tawny juniper]

No. I gave you a paragraph on why your points were invalid and you respond with the same points because you collectively couldn't come up with a reasonable idea on why your idea may have been flawed

I told you specifically why it couldn't take 80 mins to grow that and you told me the exact same thing I was responding about it to

[sick pond]

ok now you're just making shit up dude, the message is still up there but you continue to act like no new arguments for haast were brought up, and that we're repeating the same points because you can't admit that you argued yourself into a corner that you can't get out of

[tawny juniper]

No I'm not. It's so small it would only be able to really kill things the size of dryo and smaller, I understand the doc says things 10x the size, but that is never going to be balanced if you can be kill a galli with something that takes 35 minutes to grow. (I understand the doc says 80, But the life stages says that once you adult and subadult have the same game-play, therefore I am just going to say it takes 35 minutes because the only things that change are stats, it's also only the size of a hypsi so doesn't rlly make sense to be 80 minutes) - Me *5: the 80 min growth is because when it makes it to full size it can be powerful for the size, giving it a super fast growth and it being as strong as said would be stupid. -You

I literally addressed why it couldn't be 80 minutes and then whoever the hell wrote that just completely disregarded it

Like no. If you want feedback. Don't react to it as if you aren't able to read.

[dire peak]

Its 80 minutes, because guess what. It can kill prey much larger than itself which have similar growth times. Woooow. Its almost as if balance needs to be taken into consideration.

You are the one not reading things man.

[sick pond]

ok so you're changing the details of our document and arguing against that, which is just fucking ridiculous in the first place and you say that it "wouldn't be able to kill anything larger than dryo" which again, makes no sense because one, the isle is a VIDEO GAME and the animal irl killed animals far larger than dryosaurus

[tawny juniper]

So it takes 80 minutes to grow shit that dies SO EASILY

Being the size it is it doesn't have a large healthpool

[quiet estuary]

There is no problem making something physically small take longer to grow than the actual animal physically is
Look at pteranodon, the animals growth time is over dryo, but the creature itself is far weaker than dryo

[tawny juniper]

that's just a given

If it takes 80 minutes to grow people would want its healthpool to be worth it, if the healthpool is worth it would just be op and make pt unplayed and not needed.

[sick pond]

also it's not supposed to be a brawler with a large health pool to fight, and we never said it was. it's been extremely clear from the beginning that it's a glass cannon with a high skill ceiling

[quiet estuary]

Its healthpool is worth it though

[tawny juniper]

The only logic would be to lower grow time to balance with health pool

[sick pond]

health pool and growth time are not proportional

[dire peak]

Its 80 minutes because if it had hypsi or whatever growth time it would be broken.

[quiet estuary]

20 hp is fine for a playable whos entire playstyle is ambushing and quickly shutting down playables of a similar growth

especially when it also flies

or has arboreal capabilities

So its survivability are arguably better than any ground creature

[barren zephyr]

it’s a high skill high reward animal that needs practice to get good with. Like cheech said, just because an animal is physically weaker doesn’t mean it should take less time to grow

plus, we’re going to the sort of glass cannon role with haast. you absolutely have to be precise with it or you’ll die. The positive aspect is amazing damage against smalls

[dire peak]

Its a 'glass cannon', and its a valid playstyle. High risk, high reward. Simple as that.

[tawny juniper]

I would argue flying down and clicking at the right time is not "high skill"

[sick pond]

how is having good timing not skillful

[quiet estuary]

Having good timing is skillful, especially when if you read the document it says you also need to do it at certian angles to prevent crashing and dying yourself

[barren zephyr]

That’s like saying teno isn’t a skilled animal even though it needs to properly time it’s tailslams and kicks

[tawny juniper]

It is, But it isn't like you need to have a ton of skill to click a button at the right time

Like a fast hand and some common sense can do that

[quiet estuary]

The document also mentions more than just a timed attack though

[dire peak]

You literally need to fly between and over obstacles and need to time your attack right at the right angle. It would take skill.

[barren zephyr]

haast will also need to get the headshot multiplier to do real damage

so you have to aim for the head

[quiet estuary]

well no

[barren zephyr]

at least with larger targets

[quiet estuary]

That yes

[dire peak]

Yes.

[sick pond]

it needs to be at the correct angle, diving down extremely fast, and hitting the head at exactly the right moment

[barren zephyr]

we wanted to put sub gallis and mega’s in its diet since it’s well capable enough of tackling 300kg moas with no trouble

Galli could have the same inspiration

at least sub gallis

depends how heavy galli will be

[tawny juniper]

Alright

So you can lose 80 minutes of work because dove at a slightly wrong angle

[sick pond]

yeah

[tawny juniper]

No

[barren zephyr]

You can lose a 1 hour and 20 minute grow by missing your pounce

[quiet estuary]

You can lose 70 minutes of work if you miss a pounce as utahraptor

[sick pond]

yeah, the isle isn't a forgiving game

[dire peak]

You can loose hours of growth because you timed your lunge wrong

[quiet estuary]

Plus again, if you check the document
it says you can still pull up if you miss if you have a quick reaction

[barren zephyr]

^ high skill animal

[dire peak]

isle is unforgiving, and thats how it should be

[barren zephyr]

quick reaction times can help you

haast is not a playable for everyone

however those who master it become deadly

[dire peak]

And if you cant get it right, than its not your playstyle or animal to play. And thats fine. But that doesnt invalidate Haast as a playable idea.

[barren zephyr]

That’s like saying teno shouldn’t be a playable because it’s hard to master

[tawny juniper]

it isn't though

[barren zephyr]

well, teno isn’t incredibly difficult but still

not as easy as carno or stego

[tawny juniper]

As I see it there are for more reasons not to add haast than there are to add it

[quiet estuary]

Such as?

I personally adore the idea of a raptorial flyer. it would be far better than pteranodon is imo especially after these nerfs

[barren zephyr]

It would also be a superb apex juvie killer

a flyer that can control the rex or giga population if caught out in the open

[quiet estuary]

and while i have reservations about such a small species of raptorial flyer
There are plenty of raptorial flyers which can have similar mechanics

[dire peak]

Also increases the horror factor of the game, just a note

[sick pond]

also it's a playstyle that can't be used with a pterosaur

[proud coral]

I like that Haast document. 👍

[hoary dawn]

dude

i imagine a pachy going up to a mango tree just going about his day, but when he headbutts the tree instead of mangos dozens of tiny herras fall on him

[dense wagon]

for the record, i came up with it

[hoary dawn]

for adult herras maybe it could just drain their stam since they have to hold on tighter while the tree is shaking

[keen bear]

When will there be new dino’s in the beta (evrima)

[strange wave]

haast bad

[paper oriole]

argentavis >>>>>> haast

[barren zephyr]

Both good

[hoary dawn]

when the devs release new dinos

[barren zephyr]

Pachy is “around the corner” so, soon I suppose

[dense wagon]

pachy is virtually done

[maiden epoch]

@dire peak i didnt read the Doc but i wanted to ask if the haast/argentavis could pick up small body and fly away with it?

really like the Idea tough

really love this idea:
(You can even have tribals hunting Haasts for various reasons too. Having tribals capture Haast for their feathers to make decorative armor would be great. Tribals also taming Haast and using them as sentries or hunting aids would be a really interesting way to change how people need to watch out for their environment)

[barren zephyr]

at most haast will likely be able to pick up hypsis, oros and tacos, and of course juvenile dinosaurs

[barren zephyr]

Yeah we wanted to come up with something out of the ordinary for haast’s uses, tribals using the feathers for extra defense and of course a nice visual look

Haast would also make the perfect sentry for invading dinosaurs and other tribals

[meager tiger]

Adding a bird?

Playable bird? Is it a prehistoric bird

[paper oriole]

haast is supe rrecent

but so is megalania i guess

[meager tiger]

Why do we want a modern animal

Playable

[paper oriole]

eagles are kinda boring but i dont think the 'modern' reasoning can be used because of mega. haast is just boring honestly

[meager tiger]

Mega is a dinosaur

The sauropod

Wait that's magy

[paper oriole]

no no the lizard

[meager tiger]

That's a prehistoric lizard

[paper oriole]

haast is mere thousands of years ago if i recall correctly

[meager tiger]

Not a komodo dragon

I'm fine with prehistoric ice age mega fauna

[paper oriole]

ik its basically a meme animal at this point but even pelagornis is at least like 20 something million years back and has cool beak teeth and is bigger

[meager tiger]

Beak teeth. Terror bird that flys lol

[paper oriole]

i think even argentavis is further back than haast and he's a badass condor

like literally either is cooler than sort of big eagle

[barren zephyr]

Megalania was around 50,000 years ago I believe. So pretty recent for an extinct animal

I would honestly love argent in the game, same with haast

[meager tiger]

If the devs are adding random prehistoric animals why not go the full thing and add cave bears or big ass wolves?

[paper oriole]

i dont think haast is even in the thousand year range actually

like he's insane recent

[meager tiger]

Not even a 1000 years old

[barren zephyr]

Haast went extinct around 1400

Due to the moa population

(It’s primary food source)

[paper oriole]

humans indirectly killed haast didnt they

[meager tiger]

Humans indirectly kill alot of things

[paper oriole]

argent is in the thousands year range

and pelagornis is in the millions

and both look cooler and are bigger than haast

[barren zephyr]

i would like argent yeah

but not pela

no thanks

[paper oriole]

i wouldnt mind pela but i fucking love condors/vultures so

[barren zephyr]

vultures are super badass yeah

[paper oriole]

imagine how mean and disgusting argent could look

i want it

[barren zephyr]

Argent is actually kinda scary

Big vulture

[paper oriole]

and it could play haast's role anyway and do it better

scavenger and juvie hitman

[barren zephyr]

I just want haast because it’s cool

[paper oriole]

maybe attack pteras and knock them down

[barren zephyr]

I won’t disagree, argent is cool too

[paper oriole]

birds in general are cool honestly

except pelicans they are assholes

[barren zephyr]

Pelicans are the bane of existence

They will take over the world one day

[paper oriole]

satan spawn

[barren zephyr]

the magy destroyer

(Good)

[paper oriole]

delet magy

[barren zephyr]

I wouldn’t mind

[meager tiger]

Replace with a brontosaurus lol

[paper oriole]

give magy a sword mohawk and rename it amargasaurus or bajadasaurus

[barren zephyr]

Isn’t bronto/apato confirmed

I think it is

[paper oriole]

think so yeah

he's the guy with the neck spikes right

on the bottom of his neck

[barren zephyr]

yeah that thing

looks cool

[paper oriole]

he looks badass, unlike magy

[meager tiger]

What if they made sauropods hatch without parents

[barren zephyr]

Gonna be a pain in the ass to grow though

[paper oriole]

sauropods hatch from coconuts

[barren zephyr]

Wait

[meager tiger]

No like turtles

[barren zephyr]

Pachy eats coconuts

[paper oriole]

pachy. magy destroyer

our hero

[meager tiger]

They have to survive by thereselves

As soon as they hatch

[paper oriole]

i mean it could work but it would be a nightmare at sub stage unless they find a her dlol

i can see juvie sauropods being decently mobile

[barren zephyr]

Sub stage is going to be hell

[meager tiger]

These are babies

They race to the bushes

[paper oriole]

allo pack: "i'm about to end this man's whole 7 hours of growth"

[meager tiger]

Allo is cooler than rex

I like being fast and deadly

[barren zephyr]

I like rex more

because

yeah

[paper oriole]

allosaurs are chads

[meager tiger]

Rex is slowwww

[barren zephyr]

Maybe not in evrima

might even be faster than Allo

[paper oriole]

even giga was funner in legacy but legacy is bad

[meager tiger]

Can get outnumbered easily

[barren zephyr]

Legacy is just unfun

[meager tiger]

Trex faster than allo

Hahaha

Good one

[barren zephyr]

it might

Have you seen it’s trot

Looks like the fatass is running

[meager tiger]

A human can escape a rex

[barren zephyr]

I really hope it’s not that fast

[meager tiger]

They were slow

[barren zephyr]

this is the isle

[meager tiger]

No

[barren zephyr]

ambush rex will be a nightmare

don’t want that

[meager tiger]

This is Patrick

[barren zephyr]

[meager tiger]

I think rex could just be the king scavenger bully or fuck with sauropods and slow defensive animals

Shouldn't giga be the speed demon faster than allo

?

[paper oriole]

rex would probably specialize in animals resistant to bleed like anky and ceratopsians while allosaurs bleed out sauropods who are harder to fracture

[barren zephyr]

I think giga may have the sauropod butcher role

[meager tiger]

It's going to be weird playing a sauropod. Your like Godzilla to everything else. Massive but slow.

Can I eat all the bushes in one area lol

[barren zephyr]

starve every other herbivore

[maiden epoch]

Wouldn't Mind an argentavis though he might be able to Pick up like baby carnos and drag then away to kill them or Fly away with Adult Utah corpses but if he could do this he should need like 2-3 ours to become adult

[paper oriole]

he could probably knock people off balance by grabbing and 'dragging' them when they are traveling on rough terrain yeah

make them fall off cliffs and down mountains

[maiden epoch]

Or Pick up a Carno Baby and drop him xD

[barren zephyr]

As long as it’s not pela I’m in for any bird in the isle

[maiden epoch]

Really like the idea of an Argentavis
Mostly just because he's Bigger and Stil looks strong while he's on the ground

Could be able to 1vs1 one Single Raptor on Land (not more)

[paper oriole]

i think a raptor would probably demolish argent unless he got the jump on it with an aeriel dropdown

this is still a bird after all, it could maybe fend off a sub raptor

at most i think

i'd imagine that if septic wounds got in though argent's claws could probably inflict infected wounds sinc ehe eats disgusting stuff though, would at least make smalls think twie about attacking a grounded argent

[maiden epoch]

Let's just say the Utah don't pounce him then im pretty sure the Argent would win

[maiden epoch]

Would be pretty cool and realistic

[paper oriole]

in a situation similar to the deinos who didnt know how to alt bite then maybe it would be able to fight off a utah

either way though it would fare better than haast

even a quetz could get its ass kicked by a utah and its huge looking

the avian animals are much more lightly built despite their looks

[tidal frigate]

@quiet estuary then it’s simple don’t be a cannibal

[quiet estuary]

Or, dont let people type while dying

[barren zephyr]

be a cannibal

please

[quiet estuary]

Plus it affects people just hunting other species too

its just you cant see the chat blurb

[jovial hazel]

Yeah, that's exactly how they sound when they die.

[quiet estuary]

its always the same

When you kill your own they either say cannibal in chat in all caps, call you a bitch or some form of racial slur, then say fuck you

[maiden epoch]

Just don't type and hide between others for example utahs, no one will finde you

[paper oriole]

The angry swearing and slurs are like the biggest bonus to interspecies killing for me

[honest sparrow]

It is really funny, but it’s like, great, I killed you, now you can inform every member of that species in that area that there is in fact an own killer, after you die

[quiet estuary]

^

[quiet estuary]

Yes but they will actually be on the alert then and most likely closer grouped together, making the hunt quite more difficult

[swift dew]

also you're dead, how tf are you still talking

[quiet estuary]

yes

It also makes the very enjoyable join a pack and slowly wipe everyone over time impossible

Like this things been an issue since update 2 now. Seems like nobodies actually mentioned it to the devs for em to fix it

[maiden epoch]

Yee but let's say I eat someone at Pond then he writes he's a baby I'm adult, I eat him in whole and go between the others and go shallows and come back later.
That worked for me so often

Or I just group up with more like you said the others would and they don't know its me

[quiet estuary]

It may work but it still doesnt make logical sense someone is typing after they die

Like we all have our laughs at the "fuck you"s and the threats of violence towards our mothers

But it still is a nonsensical thing ingame

[maiden epoch]

Well I just hope the devs get faster because the progress is really slow in my opinion like 4 months for a little update

Is to long

[quiet estuary]

And hell you can argue it messes with the horror aspect too

seeing a groupmate randomly disappear after a while is far more intense then just knowing automatically after they die

[cosmic nebula]

I just wanna jump around trees as herra already

[swift dew]

I was a canni stego the other day, and I was going to attempt to kill 3 other stegos, but obviously I couldn't just go in and fight them. the other two went for food and I was going to kill the one that stayed behind but it was tricky because I had to get an opportunity (they were sus of me, lol sus) and kill them so they couldn't just cry for help that I was a murderer after they were dead, I got them but it was bad because the other two stegos saw me, I ended killing them both though after I ran away.

obviously stegos shouldn't be cannibalizing but this goes for anything that is meant to cannibalize, like deino and cera

[quiet estuary]

Same elexin

[swift dew]

not a little update though

[quiet estuary]

How many times have we been "we're right around the corner" 'd

[maiden epoch]

I mean it says that update 4 I guess?
Will come very soon and this very soon is a month now and will probably bd one and a half

Very Soon is like maximum 2 weeks

[quiet estuary]

Soon in isle terms has no maximum

they sooned us for the entire duration of the recode

[cosmic nebula]

soon is like 10 years later

2031: Alright guys pachy is now playable

[tidal frigate]

And for a good reason

[tidal frigate]

It’s going to be like 2 weeks tops before pachy playable

[cosmic nebula]

looks like a cool spot

[karmic plank]

Even though the Haast discussion has well and truly run its course, just wanted to say: I see nothing wrong with having a few select roster spots basically needing you to be nested or lucky to reliably make it to adult

Give people the option for New Game+ if they want a bigger challenge

On of the great things about The Isle is not every Dino has to be the same difficulty or the same viability solo vs groups

[honest sparrow]

You know I never actually thought of that before

[paper oriole]

it would actually make sense for a bird who would be pretty much safe as an adult due to actual flight vs gliding to have that luxury countered by an extra harsh hatchling/juvenile stage

[dire peak]

Ok no, Argent wasnt just a big vulture. More like a giant Caracara. Also Im not sure how eagles are boring, they are amazing predators.

[paper oriole]

Theyre boring as in they're over-exposed, like wolves

Also i think argent was a cathartiforme which includes new world vultures

[dire peak]

Argent is in the millions year range, but Haast also evolved around 1 million years ago. I dont think there is a measure of how prehistoric an animal can be.

[paper oriole]

Well if it existed until only 800 or so years ago it is less “prehistoric” than something that went extinct many thousand or some million years ago

[dire peak]

Eagles are arguably not as overused as wolves are btw

[paper oriole]

They are like the wolves of bird media

[tired tiger]

Yeh

[paper oriole]

Yes they arent as overrated and overexposed as wolves though thats true

But as far as birds go eagles are all over media

[tired tiger]

That is true

[dire peak]

I mean it cant be helped, they are fascinating animals

[paper oriole]

When you see something depicted so much it starts to become less cool, even if its a neat animal

[tired tiger]

That’s the truest thing I’ve seen on this discord yet

[paper oriole]

Its like t-rex. Badass dinosaur, op as fuck and lots of fossil material, but since its so overexposed it loses some spice

Despite being a cool ass animal

[dire peak]

Haast has never been depicted properly in a game

[tired tiger]

Yep

[dire peak]

Yea that I agree with

[tired tiger]

It never has but argent has so I’m saying maybe the isle should add haast to compete with pteras and maybe quetz

[paper oriole]

Wait what game gives argent justice

[tired tiger]

The isle

Oops I meant ark

[paper oriole]

Oh god ark

[dire peak]

Both are better ideas than Pela thats sure

[tired tiger]

Yep

Yeh

And ark has done the same thing to pela as they did to argy

[dire peak]

Ark is uhh

[paper oriole]

I dont really get the pela hate, like is it because he's basically a meme animal here

[dire peak]

Uh

[paper oriole]

Id still want argent more than pela tho

[tired tiger]

Yeh same

Argents just cool

No hate on haast

[paper oriole]

Pela has cool beak teeth and a huge wingspan but vultures are just the best

[tired tiger]

Why not just argent

[dire peak]

Haast is better, because it can punch up and has a more interesting playstyle and lifecycle. Right now Pela would be a perma sub ptera

[tired tiger]

Disagree what u want but I prefer argent more
then most of the others

[paper oriole]

Haast is smaller and would have a smaller prey range, vultures can still behave as birds of prey at times and can slam down on smalls from the sky with its talons just like haast would

[tired tiger]

Yes but vultures are small

[paper oriole]

Argent is bigger than haast

He has the second largest wingspn of a bird in history, second to pela

As far as i know

[dire peak]

Vultures alone never hunt prey larger than themselves.

[tired tiger]

We need more than just ptera

Flying the sky and killing any other sky dwellers

[paper oriole]

Well we're getting quetz but yeah

[dire peak]

And Argent by lifestyle wasnt a vulture. Rather a big Caracara.

[paper oriole]

More than those two would be nice

[tired tiger]

A pack of pteras could kill a quetz

With more manovebilty quetz will not stand a chance

So I’m saying a prehistoric bird like argent would be better at dealing with the massive pops of pteras

[dire peak]

Quetz would most likely kill a Ptera in a single peck, and is more at home on land

[tired tiger]

Yes but manoeuverbility would not help

And a pack would prob end up killing it if there skilled flyers

And if they fly the same speed as the quetz and stay away from the head and above it they will most likely win

Unless quetz gets a pick up thing we’re it can pick up certain dinos if it did it to ptera byby ptera

@dire peak got anything to counter that?? Or am I right??

[dire peak]

Well since Im guessing Quetz will be able to 1 shot or near 1 shot Pteras, its gonna be really dangerous for them to attack

[tired tiger]

Yeh but still if there good flyers they can do it

[dire peak]

Perhaps

[tired tiger]

I’m just saying the addition of stronger flyers like argent would be good to stop pteras from growing to much in numbers

[dire peak]

Haast can do that too

[tired tiger]

Haast is smaller and therefore would have less health

So a swarm is more likely to kill of pteras

If there’s to many every flyer perhaps not argent or haast would die of starvation

[dire peak]

Haast isnt reliant on pteras

[tired tiger]

I said perhaps not haast or pteras

What I’m saying is we need a flyer that can take care of 10 or so ptera with out dying

While I estimate quetz to only be able to take care of only 5 to 7

[tired tiger]

And only if good

[rare fractal]

They already don't

[tired tiger]

Argent could in theorie could take care of 12 while haast only 11

[tired tiger]

??

[rare fractal]

Pteras already don't grow in large numbers

You're finding a solution to a problem that doesn't exist

[tired tiger]

In some servers they do

[dire peak]

Some

[rare fractal]

And they do 15 damage, so what's the issue

[dire peak]

In general Ptera wouldnt be a problem for Haast or Quetz

[rare fractal]

Yeah it's essentially spectator mode with more steps, that's why it takes 45 minutes to grow

[tired tiger]

And with the addition of extra food in oceans they may grow more and the log will be like a hatchery to them

[rare fractal]

Right, but is that a problem?

[tired tiger]

Lag

[tired tiger]

Not yet

[rare fractal]

So we need to add a natural predator for pteras because they cause lag....

Just remove ptera then, their existence is the issue at that point

[tired tiger]

Yeh I quess and there pests

[rare fractal]

That's not really a good reason

I get that they can be annoying but that's how people choose to play em

That's why they basically don't do damage anymore

[tired tiger]

Also sub adult pteras can get 15 percent deinos to a full white heart very quickly

[rare fractal]

Or the deino can just go underwater

I'm sure if the deino is braindead than sure

[tired tiger]

The deino could be trying to bait the ptera to kill it but it does way to much damage

[rare fractal]

ok?

That's a very specific circumstance to justify limiting the ptera pop

[tired tiger]

Yes

[rare fractal]

That's moreso an issue with how health scales currently, a 25% deino doesn't even weigh a ton, which is getting fixed

If health scaled properly then the heal rate of that 15% deino would outpace the PT's dps

[rare fractal]

Oh btw, quetz will absolutely 1 shot a PT, that's not even up for debate

Quetz is massive

[dire peak]

👍

Thought so too

[rare fractal]

The plausibility of it doing about the same damage as a carno isn't even off the table

[tired tiger]

That’s if it can hit

[dire peak]

Alt bite

[rare fractal]

Considering we don't know anything about how they're gonna make it's movement, I don't think that can be determined

[tired tiger]

While flying

Not likely

[rare fractal]

They wouldn't add it in the game if it was soloable by pteras, at that point it has no purpose existing.

[tired tiger]

Maybe

[rare fractal]

It would get balanced to compensate

[tired tiger]

Ok

[rare fractal]

Well they haven't made statements about what the relationship between the two is, and we don't have any in game data to go off of so no it's not possible to determine

[tired tiger]

Yes I quess but still something other than pela should be added

[dire peak]

Pela isnt planned

[tired tiger]

And it can be haast I don’t care anymore

[tired tiger]

Ok

[rare fractal]

Playable birds aren't planned

[tired tiger]

Ok

So ur saying this argument was for nothing

[rare fractal]

Well pretty much, at least regarding birds

[tired tiger]

Yeh I quess

[rare fractal]

Who told you birds were planned?

[tired tiger]

Terror was talking about it

[dire peak]

What

[tired tiger]

You were

[dire peak]

I was talking about the suggestion

Not that its planned

[tired tiger]

Well yes

[honest sparrow]

It’s because no one can really come up with a good argument for it not be a clone, otherwise it would need an entirely new biome, I have no problem with irl pela but that’s the problem a lot of people tend to have with it as a possible playable

[tired tiger]

Yeh I guess

[dire peak]

Pela could work, if coastal biome was a fleshed out thing

[rare fractal]

Does this game need playable birds? Seems like the kind of thing to be included in a different title

[tired tiger]

Maybe it does

[honest sparrow]

It doesn’t need birds but it could definitely use flyers

[rare fractal]

Cuz TI is pretty Mesozoic

[tired tiger]

It’s still prehistoric

[rare fractal]

That's for sure

[honest sparrow]

Birds existed in the Mesozoic

[dire peak]

Not completely mesozoic

[rare fractal]

"pretty"

[rare fractal]

Yes IK, very small birds did indeed exist in the Mesozoic, I'm talking about playable options

[dire peak]

If megalania and titanoboa fit, not sure why Haast wouldnt

[tired tiger]

Yeh it’s pretty Mesozoic

[rare fractal]

Titan doesn't

[tired tiger]

Yeh I guess

[rare fractal]

It really just doesn't work

[honest sparrow]

Titan doesn’t fit for other reasons

like not functioning on land

[rare fractal]

Or even in water

[tired tiger]

I’m just saying it would be fun to have multiple battle ground sea air and ground

[dire peak]

Its a programming nightmare

[tired tiger]

It would be

[rare fractal]

Well yeah, that can be done through other pterosaurs

There are heaps to choose from

[dire peak]

Raptorial pterosaurs dont exist

Haast is there anyways

[honest sparrow]

Most flying niches can be occupied by pterosaurs, but raptatorial/air to air predation is really more of a bird thing

[tired tiger]

It could but there are so many to chose there’s a high chance they’ll get it wrong with the power scales

[rare fractal]

TI utahraptor doesn't exist

[dire peak]

Please dont

[rare fractal]

Troodon doesn't exist

[dire peak]

Oh god

[tired tiger]

Stop now

Don’t make me call a ad in

[rare fractal]

??

[tired tiger]

Ur hurting terror

[rare fractal]

I'm.... sorry?🤨

[dire peak]

Utah clone arguement is just, not an arguement

[rare fractal]

But it is, it exists in the game

Plus the same logic applies to other members of the roster

[honest sparrow]

He’s saying if isle Utah exists raptatorial pterosaur exists terror

[dire peak]

Oh

[tired tiger]

I sorry but I think air to air battles should not just include other pteras

[rare fractal]

I'm saying they CAN through fictionalization

[rare fractal]

That's fine, use other pterosaurs

[honest sparrow]

But why go that far out of the way to make what is essentially strain levels of fictionalization just to achieve something that can be added with another playable

[dire peak]

Why waste time make up a completely fictional pterosaur when haast exists and does add some unique flair to the game

[honest sparrow]

It is exactly why I don’t like homalo, or upsized micro, etc

[rare fractal]

They did it to utah, spino, troodon, herrera, hypsi, beipi, and minmi

So why not

[tired tiger]

It’s just if everything on the island was made. And everything that went extinct of a millions years ago there were plenty of birds that died of a millions years ago

So some extinct birds do make sense

[honest sparrow]

Utah is your stereotypical jp raptor, spino is stereotypical spino, troodon is jp rendition, herra has like longer arms for climbing, Beipi is an odd choice for a semi aquatic but whatever, Minmi and kunbarra were once considered the same thing. Yes they are fictionalized to fit a niche, but it’s not such a rapid departure from all sense of this is an actual creature to rationalize turning idk dimorpho into an eagle or something

[tired tiger]

This all correct

[rare fractal]

But it is, whether or not these things are taken from JP doesn't change what they're called

[tired tiger]

And makes tons of sense why does it have to be all real

[rare fractal]

Why does it have to be real?

hmm?

That's the point I'm making

[honest sparrow]

While they COULD make a raptatorial pterosaur, and it’s shown in the devs past that they really don’t give a rats ass about any form of consistency, I’d rather they just do a more logical choice and safe

I’m fine with fiction, it’s just why go through all that bullshit

[tired tiger]

??

[rare fractal]

Because it's fiction, this seems like a very selectively applied standard

[honest sparrow]

It doesn’t HAVE to be real, it just makes so much less sense to do it

[tired tiger]

It’s agreed then it does not have to be real

So prehistoric bird can live on the island

[rare fractal]

Anything can

[tired tiger]

Anything extinct

[rare fractal]

Put a smilodon on the map if you really want to

[rare fractal]

It's fiction, you can do whatever you want with it so yes

[honest sparrow]

You want venomous dinosaurs? Fuck it. You want spino to revert in terms of appearance? Go for it. You want to add a raptatorial pterosaur? Fine, it would just make so much more sense imo to add an actual eagle

[dire peak]

Smilodon would hardly work

Also that

[tired tiger]

Yes

[honest sparrow]

Don’t get me started on smilodon

[tired tiger]

Eagles make so much more sense than flying raptors

[rare fractal]

Actually it would be more consistent with the design philosophy of the game to take an existing animal and create a completely derived depiction of that animal with almost none of it's defining traits

[dire peak]

Why make up something completely fictional, when there is something that already fits the role perfectly

[honest sparrow]

I mean most of the isle’s dinos aren’t even in need of or have that much changed from their actual depiction in terms of appearance

[rare fractal]

Tell that to Magy troodon utah spino beipi and herrera

[honest sparrow]

It’s just in terms of gameplay they go insane

[dire peak]

Magy was a mistake in general yes

[tired tiger]

Guys let agree to disagree the evrima will be great without our ideas or it’s our ideas and they dont listen to this anyway so why bother

[dire peak]

But others?

[honest sparrow]

Magy remains a mistake

[rare fractal]

Because having a good argument is fun

[honest sparrow]

Indeed

[rare fractal]

Yes, the others aren't the dinos they claim to represent

So this standard remains

[tired tiger]

True

I just wished the admins actually took most of the ideas to heart

[dire peak]

Haast doesnt break any theme, and it fits the raptorial role perfectly.

[rare fractal]

Kinda breaks the theme of reptiles

[dire peak]

Birds

Are reptiles

[rare fractal]

Not the same thing

[honest sparrow]

Literally any of our feathered dinos

[rare fractal]

That's like saying horses are amphibians because all mammals derive from amphibians

[honest sparrow]

What

[dire peak]

Yes they are. Also hypsi, ovi and stuff exist with feathers

[honest sparrow]

No

[dire peak]

No theme broken

[honest sparrow]

How does it break the game’s aesthetic with feathers, if there are far more egregious feathered animals already in the roster

[rare fractal]

Oh no, not aesthetic just theme

[tired tiger]

So does argent

[rare fractal]

Those are different things

[honest sparrow]

Fine

[rare fractal]

Aesthetic remains untouched in that regard

[tired tiger]

Yep

[honest sparrow]

Then how does a bird of paradise sitting next to a mutated monster change the theme more than that of a large eagle

[dire peak]

So the only problem is that its an avian dinosaur, and not non avian. Why is that a problem?

[rare fractal]

Because a bird of paradise isn't a playable and lives in the modern era

[tired tiger]

Dunno

[rare fractal]

No it's not a problem

[honest sparrow]

Hypsi is a carbon copy and we are in the modern era

Ovi is bright blue and orange with cassowary stylized feathers

Austro is a goddam mutant

ANKY IS AN ARMADILLO

[tired tiger]

True

[rare fractal]

So they take inspiration from irl animals when it comes to pattern

[honest sparrow]

ANKY

IS

AN

[tired tiger]

Yes

[honest sparrow]

ARMADILLO

[rare fractal]

But it isn't :l

[honest sparrow]

It has the rhino armor or whatever but you get my point

[tired tiger]

They get advice from enything they can scrounge other games real life E.C.T

[rare fractal]

No I don't, it has a similar style armor to that of something that isn't extinct...

[dire peak]

Haast would just fit right in, and would add to the horror aspect

[rare fractal]

Haast would be incredibly op

[tired tiger]

Yes it would as well argent

[rare fractal]

Unless it was heavily changed

[dire peak]

It wouldnt, explained in the doc

[honest sparrow]

Then haast, who is an eagle who would look akin to a modern day one, that just doesn’t apply?

[rare fractal]

Birds are just more physically efficient than pterosaurs

[tired tiger]

It could be heavily changes it’s a game not irl

[dire peak]

Eh

[tired tiger]

It could be slower

[honest sparrow]

I mean we tried balancing it to the best of our ability

[rare fractal]

I see your point

[dire peak]

Pterosaurs had more airsacks iirc, and their quadrupal stance and anatomy allowed them to grow into the largest flying animals

[rare fractal]

That doesn't make them better, that makes them big

[dire peak]

Both have advantages and disadvantages

[barren zephyr]

Pterosaurs could attain larger sizes as they were quadrupeds, and launched with their arms rather than by running like birds do

[dire peak]

I dont see either better or worse in general

[rare fractal]

In comparison they are, because not all pterosaurs are large

[barren zephyr]

Both have air sacs and are endotherms

[honest sparrow]

Heavily reliant on momentum, takes recoil on bodyshotting anything above 350 kg, takes recoil on hitting anything above 550, takes 20% stam and sufficient height/ambushing to effectively hit something, on top of hitting the head of larger targets to do any sufficient damage

[rare fractal]

Ptera is a good example, our only current pterosaur in game

[tired tiger]

This is good haast vs ptera is an even fight with haast having a slight advantage of extra stam but the disadvantage of speed and slower bite rate

[rare fractal]

Haast would fold ptera like a deck chair I'm sorry

[barren zephyr]

An eagle or teratorn could easily take down ptera.

[honest sparrow]

Yeah haast preys on Ptera for a reason

[rare fractal]

A golden eagle has a shot against a ptera

[dire peak]

Maybe a juvenile or a sub

[honest sparrow]

Unless it engages from like a purely horizontal fight Ptera is gonna lose

[barren zephyr]

Eagles do make use of diving/swooping down from above to take down prey

[rare fractal]

And the fact they can lift insane amounts of weight in reference to their own

[barren zephyr]

in a flat out chase, a pteranodon might win

[rare fractal]

Why would it be a chase tho, a ptera would escape

In a straight fight an eagle would win

[tired tiger]

Good or no good

[barren zephyr]

Hunts and fights are not the same.

[rare fractal]

We specified fight

[barren zephyr]

Like some animals do stand their ground when faced with danger, but ptera clearly isn't adept at it, so it has to flee.

[dire peak]

Depends where the fight is

[barren zephyr]

sorry, pteras are designed to be cowards

[rare fractal]

The air

If in any other terrain an eagle has the upper hand

[honest sparrow]

Ptera has the size, horizontal speed, and probably range. Haast has damage, vertical speed, and stam

[rare fractal]

If obstacles are present, eagles have higher maneuverability

[dire peak]

Haast would have the advantage ingame while in flight

[barren zephyr]

god this argument is stupid...

[slow linden]

pteradons smell their own farts, a haast would throw that sucker around

[rare fractal]

Yeah kinda :/

[tired tiger]

Yeh kinda

[barren zephyr]

An eagle is an obvious victor. Secondly, why "fights". Why not a hunt. The hunter being the eagle, not the puny pterosaur.

[tired tiger]

Dunno

[rare fractal]

Because someone said a ptera had a shot in a fight

Before you came in

[honest sparrow]

Haast kills it

[tired tiger]

10 v quetz maybe would win

[honest sparrow]

End of topic

[tired tiger]

That’s what started it

[barren zephyr]

A pteranodon is anything but intended for taking on potential predators.

[rare fractal]

Yeah

[barren zephyr]

Or actively hunting things, either. Pteranodon is a shit predator.

[honest sparrow]

Quetz is actually in the size range where haast can maximize damage without worrying about just headshotting

So that’s interesting

[tired tiger]

Yeh it is

[rare fractal]

Kinda another reason Haast is a bad idea if Quetz is on the roster

Cuz what is the point of quetz if Haast is in the game

[barren zephyr]

While some ptera players do hunt down juveniles, they're quite crap at it. Its sort of like a seagull trying to kill a pigeon. It does happen, the seagull is just shit at it.

[honest sparrow]

I’m not a fan of giving quetz a peck but like a barrel roll or midair attack that only affects other flyers would be cool

[barren zephyr]

what

[rare fractal]

Wouldn't work on a divebombing giant eagle, also wtf

[honest sparrow]

Lmfao

Trolled

[rare fractal]

xD

[barren zephyr]

Quetz is not an aerial predator

[dire peak]

Do a barrel roll

[rare fractal]

The rational part of my brain legit tried to answer that with a dignified response for a sec

[barren zephyr]

its some weird stork-heron analog or whatever

[honest sparrow]

Yeah quetz just vibes

[rare fractal]

Again, what is the point of Haast if it delegitimizes quetz

[tired tiger]

The only thing haast would poop on is pteras

Not quetz

Espacialy not if the quetz had peck

[rare fractal]

Haast kinda annihilates quetz tho

[barren zephyr]

im not even arguing to have haast in the game lol

its clearly a somewhat stupid idea

[tired tiger]

Maybe

[rare fractal]

No it would, quetz has no counterplay

It's a giant eagle vs the least maneuverable flying animal in the game

[tired tiger]

Fine no haast no other flyers make any flyer unless that makes a lot of sense

[safe galleon]

what the fuck is a tiny eagly going to do to a giant airplane bird

[barren zephyr]

also quetz basically has the same weight as a moa

[tired tiger]

Yeh

[rare fractal]

Quite a lot, like a whole lot

[tired tiger]

I can’t see it

[honest sparrow]

I see it as a Cera vs carno situation. Cera and carno both excel at bullying the small roster, but do it in different ways, carnos stupid fast and so large a solo or anything in its size range wouldn’t risk fighting it at all. Cera is smaller but more robust and actively scraps in fights. Both excel at fucking the small roster but do it just differently enough it works. Haast is a tiny tier that specializes in punching up via aerial attacks, quetz is a giant stork that flies around killing shit smaller than it, quetz also punches up but focuses more on carrying off or spearing smaller targets

[barren zephyr]

that is a moa, not a quetz

[rare fractal]

Like it's preferred prey item irl had the same mass as a quetz

[safe galleon]

but that was also a ground dwelling animal

not a giant flying apex scavanger

[rare fractal]

So?

[safe galleon]

they're 2 very different animals

[rare fractal]

That are both in the weight range of a Haast's capability

[honest sparrow]

Quetz legit just has to fly up to nullify haast’s entire game plan

[safe galleon]

also if we made haast that fucking good wouldn't that just make it op?

[tired tiger]

Yep

[rare fractal]

Yeah, so don't add it. A giant eagle with the capabilities of an actual eagle would demolish a quetz

[dire peak]

Haast would have bad horizontal speed and stam. It can only try to ambush Quetz. The latter can 1 shot the the other aswell.

[rare fractal]

So don't add it

[tired tiger]

No

[safe galleon]

yeah don't add haast

[tired tiger]

So true

[rare fractal]

It physically does, irl Haast literally proves this

[tired tiger]

How

[rare fractal]

Why would it have bad horizontal speed if it's entire hunting strategy is to divebomb

[dire peak]

Good thing we considered to balance Haast in the doc

Divebomb speed is not horizontal speed

[honest sparrow]

It relies entirely on diving to move at faster speeds

[dire peak]

Like

[safe galleon]

ok so haast was adapted to hunt big slow (slow compared to how fast flying is) ground prey. Quetz is a giant fast moving flying animal

they'd require different methods of attack

[rare fractal]

Moa and quetz are the same weight, Haast preyed on Moas so size is not an issue

[slow linden]

[tired tiger]

Yes I guess

[honest sparrow]

It’s a matter of how much damage a haast could get off before a quetz gets out of range

[rare fractal]

Who said quetz would be fast

[tired tiger]

Most likely would be

[rare fractal]

Why would a Haast eagle be slower than a quetz

[honest sparrow]

If you can land a full speed headshot on that narrow head at fast speeds mid air props,

[safe galleon]

also would a haast even attempt to attack a qutez? moas and quetz are the same size but quetz looks larger which would most likely deter haast tbh

[barren zephyr]

"apex"

[dire peak]

In the air Quetz would be faster horizontally

[tired tiger]

And with its ability to maybe gain stam will hovering it would be unstoppable to a haast

[barren zephyr]

What do you mean by that. Apex predator? Clearly not, it gets shat on by most other land carnivores, even utahs

[rare fractal]

Humans play this game so yes

[rare fractal]

Not if it's dead

[safe galleon]

biggest flyer is what I mean, should've probably said that

[barren zephyr]

everything is bad except rex, bye

[honest sparrow]

It’s to make it so it can’t just chase down quetz without commuting to a dive, it needs to commit and a quetz can see that coming and gtfo

[safe galleon]

shut the fuck up ryk

[tired tiger]

It would take heaps of Hasst hits to kill a quetz

[barren zephyr]

Apex is not a size related term. The only context the word has in biology is apex predator, or "top of the food chain"

[rare fractal]

Why

[safe galleon]

I know that soup thank you

[dire peak]

Balance

[barren zephyr]

sorry.

[tired tiger]

Because it would

[rare fractal]

Quetz is a proportional lightweight

[dire peak]

Game balance is a thing

[tired tiger]

Yes but then health should be still guide a bit

[safe galleon]

I think a haast could kill a quetz in game but I highly doubt it'd be as easy as taking on a moa

[slow linden]

Realistically, what would a quetz be able to consistently take on in the isle’s roster? I know it’s huge, but that’s about it.

[tired tiger]

Yes

[safe galleon]

good

[barren zephyr]

say im sorry too you fucking idot

[safe galleon]

no

[barren zephyr]

die

[honest sparrow]

Like max thing a quetz could realistically kill is probably Minmi

[rare fractal]

It would be easier, Moa's have the advantage of being on the ground and seeking cover. Quetz is in the air with nothing to put in between it and the Haast

[safe galleon]

I will die fuck you idot

[tired tiger]

Yes it could

[safe galleon]

except a quetz flying is probably faster than a moa running

[barren zephyr]

yeah but eagles are fast AF

[rare fractal]

Oh for sure, doesn't change much about a quetz not having any cover or escape options

Eagles are, as said above, fast af

[tired tiger]

Haast would not have been

[safe galleon]

the quetz could just land tho

[barren zephyr]

the top speed of a golden eagle, when diving, is 320 KM/H. The estimated top speed of quetz is about 130 KM/H

[rare fractal]

Oh the lag

[honest sparrow]

Haast is not going anywhere near that fast

[dire peak]

No thats Peregrines

Goldens usually stop around 200 kmh

And thats already a lot

[rare fractal]

No that's actually correct, it's 320

You're looking at mph, which is 200

[barren zephyr]

The top speed of perigrines is 390 KM/H

[honest sparrow]

The max diving speed we have for haast is around 80 kmh, I believe quetz was speculated to fly at 100 something

[safe galleon]

how much is the eagle able to move during that? like can it even turn

[honest sparrow]

(We have as in what’s in the doc)

[rare fractal]

Fastest we have for quetz is 80

[dire peak]

Peregrines do 200 mph which is around 320

Kmh

[rare fractal]

Yes actually

[rare fractal]

Just google it, that's how I got the numbers

[honest sparrow]

Ok so they tie each other in the most situationally beneficial situation for haast imaginable

[rare fractal]

Wait so Haast can't even reach terminal velocity when diving?

Or even anywhere close too it?

[tired tiger]

Quetz can go max 180 kilometres an hour will the haast max speed is only 80 kilometres an hour

[honest sparrow]

Why would we make haast that stupidly fast

[dire peak]

I dont recall any actual site stating goldens can reach the speeds of Peregrines. The latter have special adaptations to do it.

[tired tiger]

Quetz can go max 180 kilometres an hour will the haast max speed is only 80 kilometres an hour

[rare fractal]

where tf did you get 180

[safe galleon]

that does not sound like a fact

[honest sparrow]

180 seems excessive

[paper geyser]

120 is the highest I’ve heard for quetz

[tired tiger]

Searched it up

[barren zephyr]

They can move their wings to shift. It isnt quite a perigrine dive

[rare fractal]

Yeah same

[tired tiger]

Nvm 130 km

[barren zephyr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liW4wD9hxnU

[tired tiger]

It’s 130 nvm

[honest sparrow]

So if quetz outspeeds haast in flight-

[tired tiger]

Yes only one way haast can kill quetz multiple ambushes by multiple haast

[rare fractal]

Why do we want to have two playables designed to cause massive lag

[tired tiger]

Dunno

[tired tiger]

Fun

[honest sparrow]

Fast cool

[rare fractal]

Animals exceeding the 40 kmh range were reduced in speed because of lag

Like an update just went out because of this xD

[honest sparrow]

We don’t know how fast Ptera goes at it’s absolute fastest so we just said 80

[tired tiger]

Don’t believe that guys

[paper geyser]

Animal speeds were reduced for balancing and gameplay purposes

[rare fractal]

Well the amount of lag and latency issues that occur have also reduced due to the speed reduction

[honest sparrow]

Kato do you know how fast Ptera goes in a dive btw, just curious

[tired tiger]

Still haast should be slower than quetz

[paper geyser]

I don’t, and even if I did I can’t give out exact numbers

[honest sparrow]

Fair enough

[tired tiger]

Maybe even slower than ptera

[honest sparrow]

Na

[tired tiger]

Ok

Well I guess this chat about haast should be over

[barren zephyr]

i do not think anyone has even given estimates

[rare fractal]

The playstyle Haast implies would kinda annihilate game performance

So I agree

[dire peak]

What

[tired tiger]

Yeh right

[barren zephyr]

but its not really an animal that does dives/stoops either

[rare fractal]

If Haast is capable of moving faster than a ptera, the amount of latency issues that would come with that as well as server lag would be absurd

This is already an issue ptera has

[barren zephyr]

like its a thermal soaring fish eater, not a raptorial flyer.

[rare fractal]

Not sure why but I read that as "Soaring Fish Creature"

[tired tiger]

I never said it would be over ptera speed

[barren zephyr]

it lacks the manoeuvrability of birds of prey

[tired tiger]

Correct

[tired tiger]

And the speed

[rare fractal]

Well as of that message you did

[honest sparrow]

I’ve only ever experienced the game actively killing itself while diving as Ptera once, after diving from like the skybox and maintaining my high speed on taco via admin commands

[tired tiger]

There are faster birds of prey than it

[dire peak]

We didn't want to limit haast to jungles, that would put other juvies at risk of being targeted too much. It would be a mix of soaring/jungle dwelling.

[rare fractal]

Oh, well rapid player movement is one of the things that cause a lot of lag

[honest sparrow]

I mean that’s fair, but again the max possible speeds aren’t really known so the speed is fine to change

[tired tiger]

If there’s a desert it would be the perfect place for haast

[rare fractal]

At that point I just question what it's purpose is beside it being a bird

[tired tiger]

Controller of flyers I guess

[honest sparrow]

To add a tiny tier glass cannon that specializes in killing small tiers and other flyers?

[dire peak]

Being a small that has the ability to punch up without being a pack hunter, and a its a flyer

[tired tiger]

Yes I quess

[rare fractal]

That sounds like a nightmare for literally every other playable below mid tier

[dire peak]

Considering all that, it would be unique and an interesting playable.

[honest sparrow]

Carno, Cera, and quetz would like to know your location

[tired tiger]

Fluff and ptera are correct

[dire peak]

Its a horror game

[tired tiger]

??

[rare fractal]

Survival game

[tired tiger]

True

[honest sparrow]

Survival horror game

[tired tiger]

True

[dire peak]

Still a horror game too

[rare fractal]

I can't be scared if my existence is delegitimized by an eagle, that's just frustrating not scary

[tired tiger]

Making it hard for mid teirs always happens no matter what

[dire peak]

Literally any larger animal causes you frustration than

[honest sparrow]

Fear is a subjective matter so I’m not gonna touch that

[tired tiger]

Yes

[rare fractal]

You can move away from them, they're slow

That comes with being large

[honest sparrow]

Carno

[dire peak]

Haast is also slow in horizontal

[tired tiger]

So true

[dire peak]

And would have bad stam

[rare fractal]

Mobility limits, carnos can't do shit in forests

[tired tiger]

Maybe

[honest sparrow]

Haast is neutralized by occasionally looking up and using terrain

Also literally every small tier has burrows for some reason

[dire peak]

The isle

[tired tiger]

Yep

[rare fractal]

They don't

Minmi and dryo are the only 2 so far

[tired tiger]

Well hypsi

[honest sparrow]

Wrong

[rare fractal]

Hypsi climbs trees

[tired tiger]

Hypsi is screwed

[honest sparrow]

Minmi, Dryo, proto, homalo, I think taco

Other things probably invade or can chill in burrows

[tired tiger]

Yeh. MAybe

[rare fractal]

Proto isn't confirmed to have burrows, taco is entirely undefined

[honest sparrow]

Proto was confirmed to have burrows

Like a while back

[rare fractal]

Where?

[honest sparrow]

I’ll see if I can find it but oldnisle discussion was deleted

[rare fractal]

Why would a ceratopsian with one of the most disproportionately large heads be a burrower

That just.... wtf

[dire peak]

The isle

[honest sparrow]

Because it burrowed irl

And would act akin to a wombat

[tired tiger]

Haast overall would add scariness to the air like deinos did to water and Hera will to trees