general-feedback-discussion

[hoary dawn]

if a bunch of adult allos walk up on a lone allo and decide to kill it its up to the skill of that lone allo to escape or outfight them, or just not put itself in a situation where it can get spotted by a threat

[white rune]

If 2 Rexes found an adult, they are in their right to kill it and eat it if they want to.

[tidal fjord]

No it's not lmao... the lone allo has no chance if the group as more than a single brain cell

[white rune]

Hide yourself

and generally it is them noticing you or you noticing them

so

either way you're trapped

or you can flee

[hoary dawn]

the the lone allo has more than a single braincell it wouldn't be in the open where a large group of predators can see it

[barren zephyr]

Ambush predator out in a open field

[white rune]

Then the predator gets ambushed by other ambush predators (same size or larger)

[tidal fjord]

Well u shouldn't be forced to group up or hide in a Bush all game

[white rune]

You don't need to

you can play by your side and survive

you can survive in a survival game alone normally and more in The Isle

how much have I played alone and survived weeks

still playing and fighting other players

[tidal fjord]

Lmao, so your telling me u could survive a pack or utahs hunting u or a pack of carnos? Even worse deinos

I mean same species fights

[white rune]

Why do you pick the fight?

Or if you do, die in glory.

Try to kill the maximal opponents

[tidal fjord]

U don't lmao, the pack hunts u

[hoary dawn]

if a group of allos walks up on a lone alberto, should the alberto get an artificial buff to help it stand a chance

[white rune]

you can always find a way to flee

[tidal fjord]

No

[white rune]

in the forest

[hoary dawn]

then why should a lone allo

[white rune]

in the swamp

I already survived pack attacks as the same specie

[tidal fjord]

Because the Alberto has the ability to defend itself

[hoary dawn]

so would a lone allo

[white rune]

against one Allo

also depend of your PvP skill

[tidal fjord]

Omg

Jesus

[white rune]

like I can kill 2 to 3 average Allos as a lone Allo so i'm pretty confident, but if I die then I shouldn't have picked the fight.

If they notice me I can always try to distance them

hide

do flee strategies

[hoary dawn]

a lone alberto would have just as much of a chance at living against a group of allos as a lone allo would, a not good chance

[tidal fjord]

Alberto > allo

Allo = allo

[white rune]

Yeah, don't use Alberto

[tidal fjord]

Now do u get it

[white rune]

Alberto in Legacy can roll on 2 Allos

[hoary dawn]

group of allos > alberto
group of allos > allo

[tidal fjord]

That's my point lmao

[white rune]

Alberto also is faster

so easier

and more agile

[tidal fjord]

Alberto is a beast...

[white rune]

more damages too

[hoary dawn]

yea but against a group it wouldn't stand much of a chance, especially if its ambushed as allos do

[white rune]

Also I wonder how do you end up with the situation you're depicting Al

[tidal fjord]

The Alberto has the opportunity to atleast kill 1

As it can't out run them

[hoary dawn]

so would a lone allo

[white rune]

^

[tidal fjord]

No it wouldn't

2 allos biting 1

[white rune]

Why cannot you easy win a 1v1

[tidal fjord]

Do the maths genius

[white rune]

even if there is another Allo

like

I did it

killed 2 Allos of my own in a 2v1

[tidal fjord]

Because u played bad players

[white rune]

it is really situational

That's the thing

[hoary dawn]

what skill level of players are we talking about

[white rune]

Any tbh

like

you can end up dead like winning

[hoary dawn]

the average isle player sucks at combat so anything is possible

[white rune]

anyway, balance around packs isn't to be done because kind of worthless

[tidal fjord]

No, u don't balance based on a situation in which u defeated two bad players... the fact is that the 2 players have the upper hand so that they can kill ya without u being able to kill them

[white rune]

I was a Cerato today
killed 6 Utahs and 1 Dilo before to die, it was a deathmatch so they could respawn

Yeah

in fact the 2 individuals have the advantage

and SHOULD

[molten tulip]

How about be vigilant of your surroundings and don't run around in front of a pack where they'll see you

[tidal fjord]

So how do u pack up?

[white rune]

Anyway, it is either the pack notice you, ambush you and you die or you notice them and flee sneaky

[tidal fjord]

Must u risk being seen?

[white rune]

Don't trust anyone

play with friends

[hoary dawn]

it all depends on how good you are and whether or not they slip up, in an average 2v1 the 1 is at a disadvantage but is not guaranteed to not take out at least 1

[tidal fjord]

So never pack up haha

[white rune]

or adopt youngs

so they grow

you'll get their trust

[tidal fjord]

More liability

Kill me

[white rune]

or a lone individual

I mean

it is a survival game

[molten tulip]

Do literally whatever you want, but if you run up to a pack expecting them to be friendly and they're not thats your fault

[white rune]

you won't go toward someone, ask to be friend and the guy can only accept

he's in his right to kill ya

[hoary dawn]

if you play solo you have to accept the risk of not being as strong as a pack, that's just how survival games work

[tidal fjord]

Well u can't always be vigilant... and there's situations in which a pack can hunt u down and kill ya just do to them having more stamina, what's ur next suggestion, walk everywhere?

[molten tulip]

Then thats your bad for not being vigilant

[white rune]

If a pack ambush you

then my bad

GG to them

[molten tulip]

Also if you see a pack, turn around, and start running you will get away

[white rune]

I've already been ambushed by Rexes and died

or Gigas

[molten tulip]

At a distance

[white rune]

as an apex

[tidal fjord]

So instead of a Dino survival, we have a game that gets players to be in mega packs.

[white rune]

I couldn't do that much except to take someone or if some guys with me

[tidal fjord]

I'm not interested in Dino world wars

[white rune]

I mean, that's what also happens in nature

like

[molten tulip]

You were complaining about packs but ok

[white rune]

animals won't accept anyone

[hoary dawn]

mega packs are not gonna be efficient, you can smell the pack scent from a ways away and not every member will be at peak strength due to diets

[white rune]

also yeah, mega packs are another situation

we were talking about 2v1, remember that AL

like you said

Mega packs must be possible to scent from far away

and shouldn't be based on players in your group

[tidal fjord]

No I didn't say 2 vs 1

[white rune]

but animals present in a location

[tidal fjord]

I originally stated group vs 1

[white rune]

How much of a group?

[tidal fjord]

Someone else said 2 vs 1 and I went with it to make it more simple

2 - infinity

[white rune]

Anyway, if they catch you then you have high chances to die or try to kill someone or stun them

[hoary dawn]

as is the case with any animal being hunted by a sizeable pack

[white rune]

You're alone and there are 15 Utahs that you noticed first, flee.

The 15 Utahs noticed you first, one could pounce you then a second and you die, sorry mate it's the game.

Or you all meet in a random situation and they go on you, then try your best by drifts, jumps, jungle

[tidal fjord]

So due to 1 second or less of not seeing something, u deserve to lose 2 hours or so of progress?

[white rune]

It's the game

like

you don't notice a Rex

you're a Tenonto

it one shots you

or break every of your bones

then finish you

[tidal fjord]

Rex is literally meant to be easy to notice due to its size

It's loud and big

[white rune]

So is a 15 Utah pack

[tidal fjord]

Nope

[white rune]

they are stupid and calls everywhere

also scent

and if you see them first, then flee

if they see you first, sorry

that's the game

[tidal fjord]

Flee where? To the next place where theres another utah pack?

Lmao

[white rune]

The jungle???

Like

don't call

crouch

[tidal fjord]

Where utahs live

In the trees

[white rune]

They can lose you easily

like

you do that like if they were trackers that never lose someone from sight

[hoary dawn]

so you just want a solo utah to be able to take on hordes of other utahs

[white rune]

they are not machines

[tidal fjord]

Or they could track u easily thanks to 15 sniffers

[white rune]

if they didn't see you they can't

[tidal fjord]

So here we have a situation where u cannot be seen by a pack to survive and the ingame packing system requires u to be seen.

[white rune]

Don't pack with strangers

[hoary dawn]

wha

[tidal fjord]

Like come on... and to survive comfortably u must be in a pack

[white rune]

or with a pack

like

found your own pack

with someone alone

then find other guys alone

[hoary dawn]

safety in numbers is a saying that exists for a reason my guy

[tidal fjord]

That's one of the most fun parts about the game -_-

[white rune]

I mean you can still enjoy the game alone

personally I mostly played apexes because of that

[tidal fjord]

Even then

Numbers win once again

[white rune]

Yes

and it should.

[tidal fjord]

Though apexes can defend themselves in 2 vs 1s sometimes tbf

[hoary dawn]

but

[white rune]

Like you said, sometimes

like for everything

but anyway it is either they get you or you pick the fight

[hoary dawn]

in a 2v1 you do have a chance to fight them off

[tidal fjord]

Here's my conclusion and my main concerns... the game is very intresting when fighting against other species as factors such as weight health and dmg come into play. When it comes to same species its click spam and even worse. It's death If its a group vs 1

In most matchups, u can either stand ur ground and fight hoping to kill 1 or more or u can flee with superior speed. But when it's against a pack of ur own species, u have noone of that. U have to risk being seen to group up and there's gonna be packs everywhere as surviving on ur own isn't very viable when considering a pack can end ya if u miss something as small as an ambushing utah.

And just saying play with friends isn't an option as the few friends I have that play this game aren't constantly on.

[white rune]

If you get ambushed then, you're kinda done if its by multiple individuals and it should be that way.

If they do not notice you, live your life until you die and try to create your own group to survive by meeting lone players or juveniles.

[tidal fjord]

Ur gonna struggle to survive on ur own as the packs will be taking the best hunting grounds so how I'll u feed juvis too?

[sudden hinge]

@keen reef cannibalism is going to be a debuff for most species if you don’t want the debuff play species that take advantage of cannibalizing

[white rune]

Then yes, feed on juveniles until you do your own pack. Also you can still hunt Dryos, Pteras, Hypsis and if skilled enough Tenonto.

[sudden hinge]

@barren zephyr hypsi isn’t unviable people just play them wrong

[white rune]

That's called adapt your gameplay to the situation.

[tidal fjord]

Keep in mind evrima is alot faster than the legacy build (in legacy it was much easier to see and run away from packs)

Lmao, so now u want a game to be filled with packs that destroy solo players and the solo players to hunt the other respawning solo players

Great gameplay.

[white rune]

Not having the same ability than a pack is normal

bruh

[sudden hinge]

Pack and solo gameplay are different af

[white rune]

Just do not engage with a pack and you won't die

[oak tapir]

@ebon girder maybe pachy could potentially break a carno’s horn , making its charge attack disabled for some time

[sudden hinge]

Like you have to adapt when playing solo via playing in a pack

[white rune]

^

[tidal fjord]

The ability to do damage should obviously be different but the solo players shouldn't be insta killed... like look at lions in the wild or any big cat. Encounters that lead to death aren't very often and when they do occur it's usually over territory and the brawl goes on for a long time.

[sudden hinge]

Cannibalism is better as a debuff like i don’t understand the issue with it. For one you’ll see less of your own species which is good when in terms of playing carno for example a species that benefits from solo gameplay

[sudden hinge]

Lion coalitions literally slaughter other lions

And territory encompasses hunting ground

[tidal fjord]

Literally my point...but did u miss the point about it being drawn out?

[sudden hinge]

It’s not always drawn out especially if the numbers favor the coalition

If anything it’s drawn out due to the fact they don’t want to risk getting injured but the solo lion isn’t getting away

[tidal fjord]

The encounters that lead to death are often pack fights, the solo lions are often injured but are chased away from their hunting grounds

[hoary dawn]

yea but lone lions dont get buffs when they're facing a group

[sudden hinge]

Facts like giving solo players a buff is stupid because there isn’t any gurantee youll stay solo and ontop of that even realistically solo members of a species don’t get buffs so why should we do that in the isle

[tidal fjord]

But pack lions don't don't sit in a gaming chair and hunt solo ones either, they just want then off their territory.

[sudden hinge]

You do realize they solo our members of other coalition’s and kill them one by one the escape happens usually between male lions that are in pairs or solo not the large coalitions

[sudden hinge]

It doesn’t matter you should adapt to the packs that’s it in game you shouldn’t get a buff for playing solo

[tidal fjord]

Usually male lions patrol the territory

Not the whole pack

[sudden hinge]

If anything cannibalism is going to help because the debuff will make carno packs more scarce

[tidal fjord]

How so?

[hoary dawn]

you could look at just about any multiplayer pvp survival game and in most if not all playing in a group is more beneficial, that's just how these games work, giving an artificial buff to solo players invalidates the advantage of playing in a group

[white rune]

Kill is a common thing in animal kingdom.

They are not war machine, they feel pain as well but if they want something dead it will be.

[sudden hinge]

Because diet requirements. Like supporting a full pack of 5 carnos with diets is going to be extremely difficult especially since carno isnt great at pack hunting like Utah’s are

[white rune]

Packs should be done on the food available and how hard it is to feed them.

That's as simple as it is.

[tidal fjord]

Jesus mate, giving the buff to the solo player was only to help it escape not for it to 1 vs 2. Also that was one of two suggestions... the other suggestion was to decrease dmg dealt to your own species so that fights were more drawn out and solo players had more of an opportunity to run away.

[sudden hinge]

Utah packs will still be a thing but less common same as carno packs I see pairs of carnos being common but full carno packs are hard to feed and being unable to eat there own will help stop that

[sudden hinge]

Still unnecessary and not how it should work at all

[white rune]

Why a buff to escape?

If you're seen and try to flee, do your best. Utah is easily possible to hide in the jungle.

[tidal fjord]

What do you mean, Carno are pack hunters of the plains xD

[white rune]

Everything isn't that hard to feed tbh

and that's a problem

[feral solstice]

I disagree with this suggestion highly

[sudden hinge]

They really shouldn’t be the carno was made to be a small game hunter and it having a pack of 5 is ridiculous right now

It’s the cheetah of the isle

[swift dew]

pack hunters of the plains? carno is supposed to be small game hunters of the plains

[sudden hinge]

Carno should go back to having at most 3 in a pack

[feral solstice]

Debuffing players who are cannibals will in-fact lower the amount of the same species being killed by the same species

[swift dew]

3 for now, I would honestly prefer 2

[sudden hinge]

Facts

[sudden hinge]

I say three for other people I’m there with you having only 2 adults

[white rune]

I'd like Carno to be similar sized focused and good at hunting smalls

[sudden hinge]

That’s honestly how I play carno

It’s a lot of fun too

[white rune]

That's why Carno is good

but could be better with a better acceleration

less long drift

[feral solstice]

It won’t stop KOSING, that’s a problem in it’s own, but it will lower the amount of intraspecific competition

[sudden hinge]

Kosing other carnivores is fine imo

Like there’s already a lot of carnis on so killing them off is getting rid of competition

[feral solstice]

Intraspecific competition is perfectly healthy.

But

To this extreme?

Nah

Better debuff cannibals so it gets lowered a bit

[quiet estuary]

The only reason it currently is so common is due to the lack of carnivores

[feral solstice]

That’s one reason yeah

[tidal fjord]

If you debuff cannibalism, it will lead to food being left without eaten... as your not debuffing the killing but the eating of the same species. Unless u want it so that u have to constantly look for food.

[quiet estuary]

when more players are spread by more species it will lower as players will wanna group up

[white rune]

Add Dilo, Herrera, Troodon, Cerato, Allo, Sucho, Rex and Giga.

[feral solstice]

But that means other carnivores will eat the carcass. Do you see now?

[quiet estuary]

Lets not add two more apex carnivores in the current small roster

[white rune]

I mean also add larger herbivores

[sudden hinge]

Eh I mean I’m still killing other carnos I just won’t eat them. Like the thing is you shouldn’t be sticking around enough to be killed but I’m all for decimating Utah packs killing younger carnos because at the end of the day it might lead to more herbies and less competition

[quiet estuary]

Ide rather them add everything that is allo sized and down
Then with the ocassional larger thing such as para sprinkled into that

[white rune]

My evrima roster :

-Extra smalls : Dryo, Herrera, Troodon, Proto
-Smalls : Pachy, Galli, Dilo, Utah
-Mediums : Cerato, Carno, Tenonto, Kentro
-Mediums + : Allo, Alberto, Maia, Styraco
-Larges : Sucho, Para, Theriz, Acro
-Apexes : Trike, Stego, Rex, Giga

[tidal fjord]

Thats if they find it... and the cannibals can always just use the body as a lure. Do kill ur own species to use it as bait

[quiet estuary]

I do that often enough

[feral solstice]

^

[quiet estuary]

Works quite well with deino

[feral solstice]

Which is fine

I mean

[white rune]

It is a balanced roster

[tidal fjord]

Haha

[white rune]

with many kinds of palayable

[quiet estuary]

Cannibalism is also fine

[white rune]

all unique

[tidal fjord]

So what the heck was the point in a cannibal debuff in the first place

[feral solstice]

To prevent people from eating their own species?

[quiet estuary]

Which is dumb

[tidal fjord]

Why?

[feral solstice]

Making hunting your own kind useless

[swift dew]

to discourage cannibalism

[sudden hinge]

I kill my species and leave some@players will use it as bait but most are too bored to sit around that long and wait

It’s an important mechanic dude

[tidal fjord]

I just pointed out that it could be used as bait so it's not useless

[quiet estuary]

It really isnt though cerato

[sudden hinge]

Like it’s necessary to make the game more challenging and dynamic

[quiet estuary]

What

[tidal fjord]

So once again.... why?

[sudden hinge]

It is

[quiet estuary]

How does reducing the amount of people who will kill you make the game both more dchallenging and dynamic

[white rune]

Cannibalism is fine to me to some extant

[quiet estuary]

Canniblaism as it is now is perfectly fine

The issue is that juvis need more effective means of surviving against adults. Which is already pretty simple with the foliage outside of deinosuchus

[white rune]

Deinosuchus can survive fine to adults if land tactic

[feral solstice]

It’s still useless if you eat your own kind, lol.
It’s not going to discourage the use of baiting. You can bait with every single corpse in the game. It won’t change that. It discourages people from cannibalizing their own kind, which lowers the amount of intraspecific competition which this game so desperately needs.

[white rune]

ngl

[quiet estuary]

When more carnivores come as well there will be less cannibals per species as all these players will be spread out

[tidal fjord]

Cannibalism makes solo playing even harder... imagine starving because the hunting grounds are being taken by huge packs and u come across a juvi or body of ur own species... sorry u can't eat this because reasons.

[quiet estuary]

So these "issues" will also become less present

[sudden hinge]

Who said less people will kill you I’ve already told you that I myself will continue killing other carnos regardless if I can’t eat them and the same goes for deinos and Utah’s like cannibalism debuffs makes it so you can’t just subside off your own species after a botched hunt or raid juvis as a quick snack

[quiet estuary]

It will lowerf the amount of people killing their own kind. At least for some players and some species

But cannibalism debuffs imo reduce interactivety with ones own species

For example I enjoyed legacy pack vs pack wars then taking the spoils afterwards, now this wont be occuring as much and hell can be more detrimental depending on what you are since the amount of corpes can lure deadlier things

[sudden hinge]

It won’t be harder you play smarter that’s pretty much it packs aren’t going to be as common because of the cannibalism debuff as well

[quiet estuary]

Wouldnt one be able to say packs will be more common from the debuff as people will want to work together to take out things taht they can eat 100%

[sudden hinge]

Which adds for another aspect of gameplay that wasn’t a thing in legacy

[tidal fjord]

Jesus... we're going in circles here so let me put it in one paragraph. You said cannibalism debuff will deter people killing own species. I pointed out that killing ur own species and using it as bait will become the next thing so there.

[quiet estuary]

That was a thing in legacy

Corpses lured people in legacy but at least you can also make use of them

Or at least more use

[sudden hinge]

No because diets are going to need to be managed it’s hard to feed a pack of carnos and without being able to cannibalize carno packs will be fewer then before

[quiet estuary]

I just dont see much of a need in cannibalism debuffs whatsoever

The main benefit I do see in it though is body down rules having to be more lax
as now the body down wont apply if one of your pack members acted idiotically

[feral solstice]

..which baiting is fine? Corpse luring has been a thing and still is a thing. Cannibalism isn’t for preventing baiting, not to mention one could even argue killing someone to use as bait could be considered KoSing.

You can corpse lure with every single corpse.

And that, like I said, is not a bad thing.

[quiet estuary]

Its only hard to feed a pack of carnos due to the lack of other species ingame

When the roster expands everything mentioned will apply the same and cannibal debuffs wouldnt have been needed

[sudden hinge]

I feel like you think baiting happens a lot the only species I see use it way too often is deinos who will be able to eat there own kind

[quiet estuary]

Deinos and utahs are the things ive seen bait used the most for

Just pouce whatever is eating the body as utah or lunge them as deino

It aint much of a problem though to corpse bait
nor is kos an issue as the player comes with the punishment of having to heal off injuries gotten

[sudden hinge]

I also believe carno won’t have this large of a pack size for long it is meant to hunt small game as well which is another reason why large packs of carnos won’t be a viable option there won’t be enough food to go around

[quiet estuary]

Yes

[tidal fjord]

Holy shit.... do you see that saying cannibalism debuffs leads to less killing of same species and then saying using ur own species as bait is fine doesn't go together???

[quiet estuary]

I mean

If you cant eat your own kind, you can use the corpse in another manner

I dont see how that doesnt combine well

[sudden hinge]

We don’t know if it’ll lead to less killing it’ll most likely lead to less carnivores that’s about it

Corpse baiting is just a cheap tactic tbh

[tidal fjord]

Its not

[sudden hinge]

It is

[tidal fjord]

It's a cool ambush strat

[sudden hinge]

It shows imo an inability to actively hunt

[tidal fjord]

Being in mega packs is cheap

[quiet estuary]

How is it a cheap tactic

[sudden hinge]

I agree mega packs are also cheap

[quiet estuary]

If anything its a way to cull players who dont check the surroudnings of corpses before they go in

[tidal fjord]

Exactly... if ur not sure... take a chunk and run

[quiet estuary]

Taking advantage of another players mistakes doesnt seem like a cheap idea imo

[tidal fjord]

If the body is near water, that's rather obvious at this point xD

[sudden hinge]

It’s still cheap lol it’s not skillful and any competent player avoids those traps overall I think it’s just a lazy approach to hunting

[feral solstice]

I think your misunderstood. There will be people KoSing, or using corpses to lure other creature, but it’ll discourage people from hunting and eating their own kind. Most people currently seem to kill their own kind for food, which a cannibalism debuff will prevent, therefore lowering the amount of intraspecific competition, since the people, who hunt their own kind for food, cannot eat their own kind anymore, so why bother killing them when there probably is other creatures elsewhere

Not to mention, debuffs won’t be permanent

[sudden hinge]

It’s still lazy hunting

[feral solstice]

So if you absolutely HAVE to eat your own kind, you can, but you’ll be debuffed for it

[tidal fjord]

Once again... you can still hunt ur own kind and kill for food as you can use it as a lure -_-

[feral solstice]

But being debuffed instead of dying is better than nothing.

[sudden hinge]

I still think we’ll have a healthy amount of intraspecies killing just for competitions sake

[sudden hinge]

Not many land carnivores do that tho

[feral solstice]

But we just don’t have the specifics on how long the debuffs will last

[sudden hinge]

Like you act like bait hunting is so common among Utah’s and carnos

[feral solstice]

I’m guessing between 15-30 minutes.

[quiet estuary]

Most utah players arent intelligent enough to know that bait hunting works lol

[tidal fjord]

Genius... that's because they can currently just eat it

XD

[feral solstice]

So…

[sudden hinge]

I doubt it will occur that often

Like it’s not a valid strat for terrestrials that have a faster hunger drain

You can’t sit and wait that long by a body as a carno or Utah as you can as a deino

[feral solstice]

Faster hunger drain > leads to more baiting > Decreases the food in the area > kinda like that

It’s not a valid strat compared to actually eating the prey while going and finding more.

[sudden hinge]

And overall most players don’t like sitting around waiting for someone to show up they like to look for the hunt

[tidal fjord]

It's a valid strategy for any Dino... instead of u hunting for food, let the food come to u

[feral solstice]

And what if it lures something else and you have to run with low hunger.

[sudden hinge]

It’s not if your hunger drains faster than you can wait lol

[feral solstice]

Like, for say, a Utah pack

[sudden hinge]

It’s not a valid strat for terrestrial predators bro and it’s lazy for deinos to do it

[tidal fjord]

What makes u think ull find food faster if u roam the endless forest?

[feral solstice]

Go to hotspots?

Listen for sounds?

[sudden hinge]

It’s better than hoping someone pops up that I can eat

[feral solstice]

Calls?

Smell corpses?

There’s so many ways to find food rather than having the food come to you.

[sudden hinge]

Like if you want to lazy hunt that’s fine you’ll probably have a shitty diet but hey

[feral solstice]

^

[tidal fjord]

And that's why it's such a good strategy... players like u will wonder the forests and go to every corpse

[feral solstice]

Hunting means you have the privilege to look for something your desire

You*

Luring is literally RNG-based hunting

You don’t know what you’re going to lure

[sudden hinge]

I don’t just walk up to every corpse I smell lol

[feral solstice]

A lot of people from what I’ve seen don’t lol

Actually

[sudden hinge]

Yeah true like you could just lure another carno or Utah to the body now you can’t eat

[feral solstice]

In fact

A lot of the players I’ve seen actually look AROUND the corpse for predators

[sudden hinge]

Overall lure based hunting is pretty much a prolonged death sentence

[sudden hinge]

Facts that’s what I do

[tidal fjord]

It becomes a game of skill... Will the baited Dino fall for the bait or not.

[feral solstice]

That’s not a game of skill

That’s a game of intellect

Will you go in?

[tidal fjord]

It is lol

[feral solstice]

Or will you not

[tidal fjord]

How well u hide urself

[feral solstice]

How is it skilled to walk up to a corpse lol

[tidal fjord]

When u go in for the kill

[sudden hinge]

It’s not even that good of a game tho because the risks outweigh the benefit of sitting there waiting

[feral solstice]

That’s.. not skilled if you’re just running to your prey and biting it for eating a corpse.

[tidal fjord]

Not really.... especially if u leave the bait in a Hotshot

[sudden hinge]

Then you risk pack aggression

[feral solstice]

Leaving it in a hotspot REALLY increases the risks lol

[tidal fjord]

Of?

[sudden hinge]

Like idk seems like only a valid strat for deino

[feral solstice]

Packs

Lots of them

[tidal fjord]

Wtf are u on?

Even stegosaurus uses it

[feral solstice]

Are you new to this game.
There’s this thing called CARNO PACKS and UTAH PACKS

Stegosaurus using bait shouldn’t be a thing

[tidal fjord]

Hell Carnos used it before deino was out even without the cannibalism debuffs

[feral solstice]

I’ve almost never seen players use bait

Before update 3

[tidal fjord]

And I'm new to this game?

[feral solstice]

So you admit

Or is that a question

[sudden hinge]

Yeah no one used baiting really before update 3

[tidal fjord]

There being a question mark....

Kinda is obviously a question xD

[feral solstice]

People use the question mark for different things lol

[sudden hinge]

Like I didn’t see a lot of players bait till that video came out with the deino baiting pteras

[feral solstice]

^

[tidal fjord]

Hahaahha OK....

[sudden hinge]

It’s true like idk what servers you play on but baiting people with bodies was uncommon af pre update 3

[tidal fjord]

Well that's because most players aren't skilled

[feral solstice]

Don’t believe me about the question mark thing? Hang around this discord for a while and you’ll see.

[sudden hinge]

It’s not skilled to bait

[feral solstice]

^

[sudden hinge]

It’s cheap

[tidal fjord]

As currently the game doesn't reward skill too much

How is it cheap?

[feral solstice]

Doesn’t REWARD SKILL TOO MUCH?

Wtf are you on?

If you’re skilled enough you can take down a stego as a Utah

Solo

[tidal fjord]

Hahahahahaab

[feral solstice]

That’s a fuck ton of food mate

[sudden hinge]

The game rewards you for playing the game correctly imo and sitting around waiting for food is just lazy

[tidal fjord]

Ur a joke at this point

[feral solstice]

I’m talking to one

Gtfo if you aren’t going to be civil

[tidal fjord]

A single utah taking a stego down

[sudden hinge]

Like just say you play the game lazy

[feral solstice]

Yeah you’re really new

Gg no re

[tidal fjord]

I've been playing legacy for years

[feral solstice]

This is evrima

Not legacy

[sudden hinge]

Legacy isn’t evrima

[feral solstice]

I don’t care if you play legacy lol

[tidal fjord]

But keep repeating it, it might become true

[feral solstice]

Ok

[sudden hinge]

I still don’t see how you think baiting is a skillful hunting strat

But regardless cannibalism will be debuffed active hunting is actually skillful and if you bait as a deino I’ll Eat you

[tidal fjord]

Why is active hunting more skillful than ambushing?

[feral solstice]

Let that sink in for a bit

why is active hunting more skillful than ambushing

[tidal fjord]

U still must set the lure in a good place, u must hide well enough... then u must chose the right timing.

Rickardo u seem butthurt

Chill out

[feral solstice]

Well, you see, you’re using your head looking around for your prey, and when you find your prey, you have to take down the prey, which it could go a number of ways:

Prey runs, you run after it.
Prey fights back, you have to fight it to take it down.
Prey has a herd, well.. that’s self-explanatory what happens next

[tidal fjord]

Wtf

[feral solstice]

Can’t just assume I’m butthurt
I’ve been through worse shit than this lol

[tidal fjord]

Do u think the prey automatically dies in an ambush?

Jesus xD

[feral solstice]

So you admit that baiting can lead to different outcomes, like a pack.

If you attract a pack, well.. better find a way out

[hybrid matrix]

Baiting is more of an opportunistic way of getting food than actively hunting

[tidal fjord]

Like how many time have u repeated... haha are u new to this game or what!? Or something like it... then when I respond in a similar manner u cry -_-

[feral solstice]

Yeah you’re starting to become uncivil

I see

[tidal fjord]

Do u know who started it?

[feral solstice]

No no, there’s no starting it

CAlling me a joke

[tidal fjord]

Haha ok

[feral solstice]

For one

That’s kinda where it started

[tidal fjord]

That's one of my responses to u calling me a noob

[uneven wigeon]

-popcorn crunching sounds from behind the bushes-

[feral solstice]

I asked you if you were new, and then you started rambling on about “not being able to solo and take down a stego”, saying “wtf are you on”, yeah, I’m going to call you a noob. Expect to be talked back.

[sudden hinge]

Ambush doesn’t take skill really it’s circumstantial

[feral solstice]

^

Be uncivil, I’ll be uncivil back. That’s just how it is.

Now

Welp I guess this is the end of discussion

Kudos

[tidal fjord]

How dishonest of u... the wtf are u on comment wasn't even directed at ur comment.

[feral solstice]

You’re still continuing it huh

Keep going

Ima snack on some popcorn in the meantime

[tidal fjord]

So u have nothing left to try?

The victim card, then dishonesty.

Like these aren't spoken words, u can go back and read through it xD

[feral solstice]

It’s not that I have nothing left to try, it’s that I could care less to attempt a discussion with an uncivil person

But keep going, again.

[tidal fjord]

Intresting, so I pointed out u started being "uncivil" in our discussion and u ramble on about having popcorn. OK I'm done lol.

[tidal fjord]

I would strongly disagree with that; just another way of getting potential food near u. The work isn't done until the prey is actually dead. Also using bait will always lead to omnivores or carnivores showing up so u still have alot of decision making to do. Just like when hunting, ur gonna try and ambush the prey instead of 1 call and 1 vs 1 it. So setting the trap correctly is akin to going to a Hotspot to down a prey item.

[sudden hinge]

I should rephrase how I word it ambushing in it self is a good way to hunt and useful bait hunting is lame and not in the slightest way skillful

[tidal fjord]

I would agree on it being cheap but I think there's still alot of planning and decision making involved which I am a fan of. Also the player being baited always has the ability to properly scout out the area before going for the meal and with the introduction of the grab chunks mechanic, u have another option.

[ashen wasp]

I believe the current scientific consensus is that Sinornithosaurus and other related theropods were not venomous

“However, in 2010, another team of scientists led by Federico Gianechini published a paper casting doubts on the claim that Sinornithosaurus was venomous. They noted that grooved teeth are not unique to this genus, and in fact grooved teeth are found in many other theropods, including other dromaeosaurids. They also demonstrated that the teeth were not abnormally long as Gong and his team claimed, but rather had come out of their sockets, a preservational artifact common in crushed and flattened fossils. Finally, they could not independently verify the presence of supposed chambers for venom glands cited by Gong's team, finding only the normal sinuses of the skull.”

Beyond paleontological accuracy, Sino seems a bit too small and specialized to make a full-fledged playable out of, with growth and all. Then again, we have Compsognathus

[lapis tree]

but compy is gonna be ai

[icy lion]

on officials, probably, but servers will be able to set it as playable

[paper oriole]

A glider would be nice to have but sino is kinda too small to be any use

[sudden hinge]

Still don’t think it’s a skillful strat. All you have to do is sit and wait really and it’s just preying on desperate and new players looking for food. There are much more engaging ways of hunting in the isle. Deinos ambush takes skill but doesn’t require baiting players to the water. It’s one of the reasons when I play deino if I see another deino attempt it I kill them

[tidal fjord]

Experience is how new players learn. Once it's done to them, next time they'll adapt, if they don't then they deserve dying over and over.

[sudden hinge]

Sure but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s not really a skillful hunting tactic

[vast wolf]

ambush makes hunting for predators super easy and allows them to catch things they shouldent.

example, legacy allo running faster than maia for 8 or so seconds.

[tidal fjord]

In my opinion its more skillful than packing on a solo player of the same species but then if I remember right, u were defending that.

[vast wolf]

ambush is a mechanic that causes balance issues and gives one faction a massive advantage.

[tidal fjord]

We're not talking about the concept of ambushing overall... he doesn't have a problem with ambush on its own.

We're talking about baiting

[vast wolf]

baiting with ambush is pretty dumb imo.

[tidal fjord]

We don't have the ambush mechanic in evrima

We're talking about evrima... using a dead player as bait

[vast wolf]

using a corpse as bait is not an issue really

especially if you placed it next to the water as a deino.

[sudden hinge]

Ambushing a herd or a unsuspecting player is fine but yeah corpse baiting is lazyi

[tidal fjord]

We're in agreement then

[vast wolf]

its pretty obvious that its a bait and those that fall for it usually end up being little timmys

[bronze oak]

Corpse bainting can go both ways imo-

It's can be both lazy, but a smart way if catching other dinos as food

[sudden hinge]

That’s not my argument tho we were arguing whether it’s skillful to bait people in which I say it isn’t

[vast wolf]

everyone can get baited but its not that massive of a deal

i see corpse baiting as smart in most cases

[sudden hinge]

No I don’t find it like a problem I just find it lazy

[hoary dawn]

its been over 2 hours since i last checked in and yall are still arguing about packv1s

[vast wolf]

it is somewhat lazy but its also pretty big brain to put a fish out for a ptera and them 1 tap them as deino.

[sudden hinge]

Like if you rely on waiting by a body to hope some noob or desperate individual try’s to take it you aren’t really playing an engaging game

[tidal fjord]

Skillful and smart go hand in had imo

[tepid gate]

Legacy Allo doesn't run faster than a Maia even while it's ambushing.

[sudden hinge]

I wouldn’t say that

[vast wolf]

they run at basically the same speed.

[sudden hinge]

Is it smart yeah I guess depending on what your plying is it skillful no you aren’t doing anything extra and are just sitting and waiting

[tepid gate]

Allo runs at the speed of 44.4km/h while its uses ambush iirc, Maia's speed is 44.5km/h from what I remember.

[tidal fjord]

No ur right, I retract that, brain fart.

[tepid gate]

Yes, which is a good thing

this short burst allows an Allo to potentially get a Maia that overslept and let it get close enough

[vast wolf]

that s the same speed. .1 does not make a real difference.

[tepid gate]

Yes that's slightly different than running faster than a Maia though I still see that as a positive

[vast wolf]

only issue is that ambush allows allo to catch and kill anything slower than maia which is almost everything.

[tidal fjord]

But then if u want Skillful, u won't get it in evrima, the combat is really dumbed down.

[tepid gate]

And that is fine too

if you let a crouching Allo get close enough to you then it can get you

meanwhile if ambush wasn't there the likes of Utah or Dilo would be perfectly safe and untouchable

[vast wolf]

allo having an ambush that lets it run down things like utah, pachy and cerato is stupid when cerato especially cant even catch anything with its ambush.

[tidal fjord]

Ambush was a great mechanic imo

Added so much depth to the combat

[tepid gate]

Cerato is just bad overall not really an argument against ambush

I agree, ambush was really neat

I'd design it slightly differently but the core idea was nice

[vast wolf]

ambush on things like rex was pretty fine, giga and allos ambushes were needlessly long and quite fast.

any ambush that lasts longer than 3-4 seconds is too long. also any ambush multiplier above 1.3 is insane.

[tepid gate]

Giga's ambush was slower than that of a Rex it's just that it was longer. It's debatable how long the ambush should be for each animal but the core concept is a good one

I agree with that for the most part

[sudden hinge]

I wish legacy cera wasn’t

[tepid gate]

I'd personally probably make ambush work in a different way

and make it available to all the animals

[vast wolf]

all legacy cera needed was a bleed resistance buff, allos ambush to be nerfed and its ambush to be buffed.

[tepid gate]

it would be more of a speed buff that works for a short moment

E.g. if you reach full speed pressing an ambush button could allow your animal to move slightly faster for a short moment e.g. 3-4 seconds like you've mentioned

[vast wolf]

cerato and para were pretty close to greatness.

[tidal fjord]

Carno ambush, bust of temporal agility instead of speed ?

Burst*

[tepid gate]

No, I mean more so that herbivores would be able to use that too I think

[sudden hinge]

Here’s to hoping they get the right treatment in evrima

[tidal fjord]

Wait why would they need ambush, cabbage doesn't run away last time I checked

[vast wolf]

the old plan for cerato had it as a smaller version of ceratorex from legacy.

[tepid gate]

Because it would be more so a mechanic that allows you to sprint for a short moment going at a higher pace than normally

it would burn stamina at 3 times the normal rate for a a short period

e.g. 3-4 seconds

This would make it so that slower animals could catch smaller animals if they got close enough

[vast wolf]

seems like a bit of an unnecessary addition to me though.

[tepid gate]

Without this speed will remain the crucial stat that determines what can hunt which animal

E.g. if Cerato ends up being slower than Tenonto it can't really hunt it

it gets a hard "no" by simply being unable to ever catch it

[vast wolf]

not really, you can always sneak closer in cover to get an ambush off as you will accelerate before your prey does.

[tidal fjord]

Yeah seems like a core problem in evrima

I don't know how they will balance that mess

[tepid gate]

You would have to be really close and your acceleration would take time too

I understand that the ambush mechanic as such was to a certain extent overtuned in the legacy

lasting a really long time as well as being activated by crouching

but the core concept wasn't bad at all

[tidal fjord]

Around 15 seconds was considered a long ambush... thinking about it, that's not bad at all imo

[tepid gate]

(being activated by crouching is a good thing because crouching decreases bleed damage that your animal receives compared to trotting making it a good stance to assume)

15 seconds was an absurdly long ambush

I don't think any animal has an ambush that long anymore

[vast wolf]

15 seconds is insane for a speed boost.

[tepid gate]

It was only Giga back before its rework that had an ambush that long

[tidal fjord]

Sub rex if I'm not mistaken

[vast wolf]

gigas ambush is still the longest in legacy but at least its not able to run down a para from across a lake.

sub rex has like a 1.1x ambush for like 8 seconds.

[tepid gate]

It's not the longest

Giga's ambush is 10 seconds long

Dilo's 12 seconds atm

[vast wolf]

when tf did dilos ambush get buffed?

[tepid gate]

Sub Rex has a much longer ambush than 8 seconds

I think it's always been that long

Well ever since I remember

[tidal fjord]

Pretty sure it's 15

[tepid gate]

I wasn't checking it before though

I've only checked the length a couple of months ago

[vast wolf]

pretty sure dilos ambush was slightly less than giga

[tepid gate]

Yea, back when Giga's ambush lasted 15 seconds

Not anymore though, Giga's shorter now

Subrex also has an ambush that's longer than 10 seconds but I don't remember how long exactly it is right now

[vast wolf]

giga has been 10 seconds since it came back to survival

[tepid gate]

Yeah

[vast wolf]

anything above 4 seconds is extreme for an ambush. its supposed to be a quick burst of speed from cover instead for things like giga dilo and allo it allows them to run things down easily.

[tidal fjord]

Yeah just double checked, sub rex lasts for 15 seconds

[tepid gate]

I mean I don't disagree I think 4 seconds would be good, it should be something that's just used to catch up on an animal that would normally just press "w" and "shift" together and get away without much thought.

Yea sub rex was over 10 seconds, I don't recall how long it was exactly though

It's slightly slower than an Allo from what I recall

[tidal fjord]

Yeah that's true

[vast wolf]

sub rex is about 41-42 in ambush

its slightly faster than barys normal run.

[tidal fjord]

I don't see why they removed the ambush concept... most animals can't really keep their top speed for very long but usually can maintain a "jog" for a while... right now in evrima we only have the option to go full out.

Which once again dumbs down the already very basic combat mechanics.

[tepid gate]

I think it's mainly because it wasn't very popular with the community on Islecord. People were very critical of it - again I'd agree that it was overtuned in a lot of cases but it did provide an interesting additional factor to the game and should've been simply toned down if anything.

[tidal fjord]

It added alot to hunting... unlike now, u had to get close enough and the closer u got, the more damage u would be able to get in before starting the hunt. Now its just run and click.

The bleed system was better then imo as it was mainly bleeding ur prey out instead of biting it to death. Once again, it added background knowledge and depth.

[sudden hinge]

I feel like maybe some playables should have an ambush like attack but I don’t think all should get some sort of ambush speed buff

[ashen wasp]

iirc ambush was removed because people used it more for combat than for actual hunting

[tepid gate]

It was used for combat because of how combat worked in the legacy

[tidal fjord]

What do you mean?

You go into combat when hunting

[ashen wasp]

e.g. a rex and a giga circling each other, crouched low to the floor like kicked dogs, waiting for the other to waste their speed boost

[tepid gate]

A/ crouching decreases the bleed damage compared to trotting
B/ no collision means that you can run through the opponent making yourself make as little contact as possible while applying the damage.

[sudden hinge]

Ambush speed should really only be a thing for predators that like specify in ambushing prey

[tepid gate]

Rex didn't have to crouch in the Giga match up btw

[tidal fjord]

Isn't that better than them just running at each other and biting for days right away?

The giga had to try and bait the rex to lose as much stamina as possible

[sudden hinge]

I mean that’s one way of fighting but you have to aim because of locational damage and face tanking isn’t really a good idea anymore

[tepid gate]

1v1 Giga shouldn't have really approached a Rex unless it got the first attack off on it

Rex just dumpsters Giga hard if it's good

[sudden hinge]

Surprise attack

[tepid gate]

Yeah

[ashen wasp]

not particularly?? id really prefer if combat were more nuanced than either option

[tidal fjord]

Lone rex can take 2 gigas

[tepid gate]

Well, it's possible for a Rex to kill 2 Gigas but I would say that Gigas will win every time as long as they're willing to sacrifice one Giga

which admittedly is a very bad trade to make

since Giga is harder to grow

and takes longer

[tidal fjord]

That is also true

But then who was smart enough to do that

[tidal fjord]

Well any suggestions?

It's got much worse in evrima.

[ashen wasp]

stamina-based struggle mechanics for suited playables, for one

[sudden hinge]

Ehh I think evrima combat far exceeds legacy

[tidal fjord]

Meh... how would that work in group fights?

[ashen wasp]

cc attacks are a big improvement as far as variety's concerned

[ashen wasp]

same way pounce and lunge do

only there's a chance for the victim to fight back

id like to see playables like Cerato get some sort of jaw parry

[tidal fjord]

Gonna have to disagree... the increase in gameplay speed means its nearly impossible to accurately bite where u want to so Locational damage is just a mess.... and don't get me started on the lag with full servers

[sudden hinge]

I’m thinking a grab and hold dealing either massive bleed or fracture damage

[ashen wasp]

oh, im considering things like lag and desync as separate from combat for the purposes of this discussion-- true, Evrima's connectivity issues are. a challenge, for now

[sudden hinge]

You can’t accurately bite in legacy it’s all broken hitboxes and assriding in evrima I’ve had little issue aiming my attacks in the right spots and each playable has a unique hunting and fighting style which is great

[tidal fjord]

So you want a proper dueling combat mechanics? I wouldn't be against that tbh... I would be open minded to it. But I did really enjoy the balance they had with bleed and ambush before.

[ashen wasp]

yeah, both Evrima and Legacy are broken, just different flavors of broken

[tidal fjord]

Thats the thing, u didn't need to aim correctly in legacy.... just count ur bites and bleed out the opponent.

Yeah, not really that unique, I've never seen carnos using their charge ability on anything other than another Carno

[sudden hinge]

Which isn’t better combat at all

[ashen wasp]

it's fun to charge Tenontos, especially from the front when they aren't paying attention

[sudden hinge]

Why would you use it on another carno it’s not useful I’ve used it when hunting small prey and tenos that’s about what it’s used for

[tidal fjord]

Well I tried that and it just double kicked me to the face

[ashen wasp]

||(the front is the end that doesnt have the tail on it)||

[sudden hinge]

It leads to an easy meal if it’s alone

[tidal fjord]

U get speed buff, so u can catch a lone Carno as a group

[sudden hinge]

That’s about it it’s pretty risky to do that too you burn way too much stam

[tidal fjord]

Risky how when ur in a Carno group atm?

[ashen wasp]

eh, hence the gang violence i guess

[tidal fjord]

It's too useless against anything else.... teno just double kicks ya to the face and utahs side step ya

[sudden hinge]

It’s still risky what if a herd of tenos are in the vicinity another group of carnos waisting your stam is always risky

[sudden hinge]

It really isn’t you are using it properly

[tidal fjord]

Not really, the tenos aren't smart enough to chase u down and the other Carno group will likely face tank ya so it becomes bite for bite again

[sudden hinge]

Yes really the tenos are smart I’ve seen plenty of carnos ran down by tenos because they waisted there stam and die

From what you’ve stated it shows me you haven’t really played carno that much on evrima

Carnos charge should only be used in the beginning of hunts and fights when you have the drop on your prey or competitor

[tidal fjord]

Never happened to me so I wouldn't know. Also using the ambush to catch a lone Carno won't fully depleat ur stam pool.. and as a group of carnos, there's only so far the tenos will stray from the stegos

[sudden hinge]

Not really teno is probably one of the most versatile playables right now a full herd is pretty safe from a group of carnos they just wait till the carnos overuse there stam and it’s an easy clap

Carnos charge is a starter that’s all it should be used for in hunts and combat anymore use of it will lead to your death most likely

[tidal fjord]

U say that but then its usually the teno that's out numbered

[sudden hinge]

Lately I’d disagree

I’ve seen a lot more teno herds then full packs of carnos

[tidal fjord]

Well I haven't played it lately for the aforementioned reasons

[sudden hinge]

I mean well there you go I’ve been playing weekly and seen a good shift in herbs over carns

Carnos are still around but mega packs aren’t really as common as large herds the biggest issue is mixpackers

[tidal fjord]

Lag, double whammy for playing solo Carno (pack can catch ya) (which isn't great considering Carno has been my main even in evrima). Mega packs, mega mix packs. Like it's a mess.

[sudden hinge]

Lags fine for me right now I haven’t had any in the last two weeks playing on NA1 or private servers like Teutonic

[tidal fjord]

The games combat mechanics is a speedy laggy predictable mess.

I play teutonic too

My main server

U still definitely get lag and my Internet isn't bad at all.. its a 300 mega bit connection.

[sudden hinge]

No it’s not wtf lol it’s way more thought out than legacy’s assriding game breaking combat

[tidal fjord]

Why do u keep saying ass riding?

[sudden hinge]

I haven’t gotten lag on either of those servers and on prelude which is a brazil server

That’s what legacy was

[tidal fjord]

Legacy has alt turn -_-

[sudden hinge]

Assriding, double biting hitbox exploiting run throughs it was and is a mess

[tidal fjord]

And when it doesn't in servers like teutonic, u can use ledges, water or packmates so even more depth to the combat

Double biting required gold timing so that's fair enough

Good*

It wasn't something a noob could do right away

[sudden hinge]

No it’s not literally all of legacy combat was exploiting the game to win fights you shouldn’t be able to win

[tidal fjord]

Explain...

I can only remember rexes mainly using double bites... there was others but very rarely

[sudden hinge]

I literally did you can bite 3 feet ahead of yourself as a rex you can kill a rex as a Utah or dilo with stupid stats legacy was balanced completely wrong

[drifting radish]

only time ive seen double biting being used was with apexes against other apex

[tidal fjord]

3 bite!!!

Now that's either bs or something I never once encountered

[sudden hinge]

Allo using stam glitches trike having the wonkiest hitbox

You didnt play legacy if you didn’t see rexes literally being able to break there hitboxes to bite further

Legacy=mess

[drifting radish]

thats all dinos in legacy lol.

[sudden hinge]

And that’s why legacy combat is horrid

[tidal fjord]

I feel like u played herbis alot

[barren zephyr]

Wouldn’t even call it combat

[sudden hinge]

I’m a cera main

[sudden hinge]

Thank you a scholar has joined

[barren zephyr]

[drifting radish]

[tidal fjord]

Cera was awesome.... especially in teutonic.. underpowered but fun.

[barren zephyr]

too bad it literally dies to pretty much anything with decent bleed

[sudden hinge]

Cera was trash in legacy but I loved it

[barren zephyr]

at least it’s turn was great

[drifting radish]

[barren zephyr]

Cera was weak, but still loved it

[tidal fjord]

Was just dilos that we're a problem

[sudden hinge]

Yes it had a really great turn and shit stomped Utah’s but everything else kinda stomped it

[tidal fjord]

Were*

[drifting radish]

dilo are annoying but they werent that big of an issue

[tidal fjord]

No I mean for cera

[drifting radish]

my point still stands

[barren zephyr]

Theri could outrun cera too….

[tidal fjord]

2 bites?

[barren zephyr]

Theri was incredibly unbalanced anyways

[tidal fjord]

So 2 dilos could trade a bite with a solo cera and cera dies

[sudden hinge]

Regardless I’m glad that the game is more balanced to realistic confrontations now or atleast heading that direction I still think it’s fishy a Utah can kill a stego solo that shouldn’t happen

[barren zephyr]

^

[tidal fjord]

How's that not a problem if the cera can't run away

[drifting radish]

its a glass canon, hence the canon part. not a balanced canon, but still a canon nonetheless

[tidal fjord]

Not a cannon at all xD

[drifting radish]

thats only with a braindead stego playing. not hard to win a 1 hit fight

[tidal fjord]

Just decent bite and no bleed.

[drifting radish]

im talking abt theri, not cera.

[tidal fjord]

O

Yus

Agreed then

[sudden hinge]

You are right i feel like the stego couldn’t have been playing well to lose that fight

[barren zephyr]

Stego just feels super boring rn

[drifting radish]

maybe if they were new, or getting nervous and sweaty or drunk or smth, but other wise... eh. bad stego

[sudden hinge]

Yeah they need to tweak it a bit add onto its tail attack for sure

[tidal fjord]

Huh?

[barren zephyr]

It certainly needs some sort of alt attack

[tidal fjord]

U want stego buffed?

[barren zephyr]

tweaked

not exactly buffed

[tidal fjord]

Ok

[barren zephyr]

Stego is already pretty strong, so no point in buffing it

[tidal fjord]

Will this tweak make it stronger?

U better not say yes

[drifting radish]

id like to able to walk and talk swing again, but that prbly wont happen lol. just feels like once more things get added, its a "tank it and attack until one of us dies" sort of deal

[barren zephyr]

People have been wanting a tail sweep like in legacy that does less damage but more bleed so.

not sure how that would work but

[sudden hinge]

Deino needs a tweak to its alt bite that shit needs to use stam and a decent amount of it

[barren zephyr]

deino already 4 shots Stego to the head

Insane damage

[drifting radish]

the alt bite is the lunge right?

[barren zephyr]

no

lunge is it’s own gimmick

Alt bite is just better lmb

[drifting radish]

ew...

[tidal fjord]

Why the heck is the stego letting that slow shite get 4 bites to its head?

[barren zephyr]

Stego players

[sudden hinge]

Yeah the alt bite is ridiculous right now

[drifting radish]

egos as tall as the empire state building?

[sudden hinge]

A lot of players have egos to be fair

[barren zephyr]

Then again if the deino just goes for the head of the Stego it already has the advantage

[tidal fjord]

Well then they deserve to die

[drifting radish]

this is the isle, ofc they do

[sudden hinge]

Everyone is always trying to kill the biggest thing in the room

And that’s why I survive lol I don’t go for the biggest thing in the room

[tidal fjord]

Especially considering a bite to the head from an 8 ton creature is no joke

[drifting radish]

clearly smth abt dinos just brings out the toxic ego ppl lol.
to be fair, when i started league i got warned it was toxic but i literally see worse shit here than in league

[tepid gate]

Deino is just on another level compared to other animals on the roster right now

[barren zephyr]

Stego used to trash deino now, but deino bites so fast with its alt bites it’s bound to win if it gets the first blow

[sudden hinge]

Do you think allo will have better luck against deinos like when we get proper mids do you think we’ll see the deinos stay in the water more lol

[tidal fjord]

Well it's pretty much an apex with that weight.... it should be the thing u don't wana take on with the current roster

[tepid gate]

Stego has its weaknesses and can be brought down even by other animals like Utahs or Carnos, Deino however is a much more difficult nut to crack. If I had to solo one animal as a Utah/Carno and had to choose between Stego or Deino I'd go for Stego every time.

I think Allo might be more capable of threatening Deino at least on land, it's still a oneshot if it gets close to water

[tidal fjord]

How would u solo a stego without exploits?

[tepid gate]

Make it go out of stamina most likely

Headbiting as a Utah

as Carno I'd have to bait its swings out until it goes out of stamina

[sudden hinge]

That’s how I feel most things will be at deinos mercy in water but I just want to see less land deinos

[tepid gate]

that's 20 swings currently I think

I've done it when it had 10 swings

now it would be much more difficult

[tidal fjord]

Well then it deserves to die if it gets baited 20 times

[tepid gate]

that's still somewhat possible though

Yea, it's very unlikely to happen I think

but Deino is just outright unkillable

I've taken on entire packs of Carnos, Utahs, herds of Tenontos

The only thing that threatens a Deino is another Deino

[tidal fjord]

If the deino is brain dead like that stego then anything is possible

[sudden hinge]

Yeah and deinos don’t even hunt on there own either they literally just mob

[tepid gate]

It's much easier to bait out a Stego to swing 20 times than... I don't even know how I'd even go about trying to kill a Deino like that tbh

Probably bait its attacks and try to land bites while running through the part of it that has no collision

but it would take a long time and the Deino would eventually hit me

[tidal fjord]

Maybe it doesn't know about its alt turn and it thinks its a land Dino... I've seen some

[tepid gate]

I just don't think it's possible 1v1. 2v1? Maybe yea if the Deino is kind of bad it might be doable

Oh yea if it doesn't know about the alt bite then it's dead but that's a big "if"

[sudden hinge]

The only way to kill a land deino is to bait all its stam and hope you scare it into running so you can get bites on tap back

[tepid gate]

I don't think there even are that many Deinos that are completely unaware of its ability to alt bite.

[tidal fjord]

Just like its a big if for the stego to get baited 20 times.... that's alot of misses and little thinking

Like what if u let the utah bite ya once... mix it up

[tepid gate]

No, it's not really comparable I think

Because you're relying on Deino not knowing that it has an alt bite which is a... really crucial element of its arsenal

it's like Stego not knowing it can attack with its tail

I mean... yea it's possible that there is some Stego like that but it's just not very likely

[barren zephyr]

How would it even grow a stego without knowing that

[tepid gate]

Easily

I've never had to attack anything as a Stego while growing

[tidal fjord]

I'd have to disagree. Even if u were to balance it, the dieno let's say has 20 chances. It would just slither back into the water and u didn't achieve much

[tepid gate]

I never get into fights as herbivores whilst growing since they are absolutely awful before being adults

[barren zephyr]

I don’t think it can be that hard to press a button, at least I haven’t seen any stegos like that

[tepid gate]

Oh, EasyAL, are you talking about Deino vs Stego? I was speaking about Carno/Utah the whole time. If I was to solo a Stego as a Deino then that's easy

I've done it multiple times

just get to the head and land 4 headshots and it goes down

[tidal fjord]

No no, I mean if u were to give the deino 20 chances to alt bite

[tepid gate]

if you can ambush it it just goes down like a house of cards

Oh, I see

yea that's a fair point, Deino can always just retreat into the water

it's just better than Stego in pretty much every way

[tidal fjord]

Well it should be able to defend it self easily when facing pests like utahs

[tepid gate]

There's not a single situation where I'd rather be a Stego instead of Deino in the current game

[sudden hinge]

I play very realistically when I play herbie no unnecessary fights unless it’s unavoidable or if I’m playing stego and my whole persona is defense

[tepid gate]

Well I typically just play to hunt other players, no matter whether I play a herbivore or a carnivore

I might actually be more bloodthirsty with herbivores

[tidal fjord]

Yeah, I never play herbivores for that very reason... I love hunting

[sudden hinge]

[tepid gate]

Well - as a carnivore I very rarely if ever kill juvie/small herbivores(tenontos and stegos) They are just really bad, can't escape nor do anything. As a herbivore I will kill any and every carnivore that I see

[tidal fjord]

Mad lad

[tepid gate]

Small Carno while I'm a Tenonto? It dies, a small Utah? Yup, dead too

[tidal fjord]

I just don't kill juvis if I'm not hungry

If I'm hungry that cute little stego becomes a meal

[sudden hinge]

My thing is if it’s within range it’s dead if it gets away I’ll let it live

[tepid gate]

I try not to kill the herbivore juvies because they are just kind of bad at surviving, carnivore ones are playable so I don't really have much second thought when killing them

[sudden hinge]

And I hunt juvi herbies a lot when playing carno but I exclusively play carno solo

[tepid gate]

I play everything solo pretty much

I don't like grouping and I'm a bad teamplayer in the first place

[tidal fjord]

Well when they grow up they'll become assholes and kill me as a juvi like someone already mentioned xD

[sudden hinge]

I play Utah and teno in groups since I feel like the best experience for them specifically comes from playing in groups and everything else I’ll play solo

Hey I play to survive lol

[tepid gate]

That is a fair point. I'd still rather not kill them most of the time as they are hardly a challenge. Unless I'm hungry then they die

[tidal fjord]

Yeah, even with the knowledge that they're just another player and that they might grow up to kill me, I let them live.... blame the devs for making them so harmless and cute xD

[pale bloom]

Fresh juvie Stego is capable of 1 shooting a 20% Carno, that's not bad surviving, yes no chance against adults but they do fairly well against a large gap of juveniles

And you mostly find juvie Stegos at the spawn areas, close to other juveniles

[tepid gate]

Well yea, I do typically encounter them as an adult. If I'm not fully grown then they're a fair-game

I've found them in most surprising of spots to be honest

[tidal fjord]

I prefer the more challenging hunts if I'm not hungry

[pale bloom]

I don't kill for sport unless I feel I should do it

[tepid gate]

e.g. in the southern part of the southern plains - what the little guy was doing there? I have no idea, it will remain a mystery till the end of time I suppose, but he just decided to go for it

All the killing I do is for sport

[sudden hinge]

I hunt to survive so i target the hurt and young atm since we don’t have elders past there prime and malnurished guys yet but I will go toe to toe with Utah packs and 1v1 tenos when given the chance

[tepid gate]

if I'm killing for food I might just kill more than normally and I will cannibalise without second thought

[tidal fjord]

Jesus, u guys are evil

[sudden hinge]

I kill other carnis when not hungry tho

[tepid gate]

which typically happens only after I've been healing locked health for a bit too long

[pale bloom]

In this game most players are

[sudden hinge]

Like I’ll straight up yeet as many other carnos I can to get rid of competition

[tidal fjord]

Don't need to tell me mate, but tbh, in legacy. Most carno players were wholesome.

They would either pack up or go on their marry way

[sudden hinge]

There is no honor in survival only survival

[tepid gate]

Tbh I was much nicer in the legacy too(although I've killed mainly for sport too)

[sudden hinge]

Another carno is competition must die if I don’t know them personally

I also feel a lot of players are way to trusting still

[tidal fjord]

Yeah, in legacy, my only rule was to not attack other carnos unprovoked and let juvis go after frightening them if not hungry

That made for fun gameplay

[tepid gate]

I don't cannibalise other Carnos most of the time unless I'm really hungry. I will most of the time kill any Deino I see while I'm Deino. I do take breaks from that but most of the time I will try to exterminate as many river-worms as possible while playing one.

[tidal fjord]

Yeah u get alot of deinos like u

Main reason why I stopped growing deino

[sudden hinge]

Same I don’t let them live at all

[tidal fjord]

Get clapped by 2 deinos after so much of my life growing it

[sudden hinge]

Not really they mob up and it’s annoying

[tepid gate]

There are ways of growing Deino really easily

[sudden hinge]

Like when deinos don’t kill each other it’s a problem

[tidal fjord]

How so

[tepid gate]

I don't remember when the last time that I've died while growing it was

[tidal fjord]

They can't exactly hunt on land

[sudden hinge]

Yes they can lol

[tidal fjord]

And they can live off of fish and kill what ever runs into the water or goes for a drink

[sudden hinge]

Nothing can stop them

[tidal fjord]

Stego pack on land I guess?

[tepid gate]

It's not so much that they hunt on land but you can go on land when there's a body lying around and just... take it for yourself

[sudden hinge]

If you kill within earshot of the water they’ll walk out and steal your shit and if you resist they’ll kill you too

[tepid gate]

Ugh, Stegos seem really rare to me

[tidal fjord]

Bur they can can't they?

[sudden hinge]

Tenos are growing in numbers which I like we need more herbies

[tidal fjord]

But*

[tepid gate]

I rarely see adult Stegos, I've seen a herd today once but they just walked by and didn't get close to me to my disappointment

I was hoping I could nom one of them

[tidal fjord]

Because they're probs bored

I had my stego, clapped countless cocky utahs and carnos

Got bored and saved it on teutonic

And thanks to an update, teutnoics slot system doesn't work anymore so I can't use my stego anymore and I don't plan on growing one... there's nothing that will actively hunt it.

And they're too slow to hunt other dinos so I'm not surprised the population has died of boredom

[pale bloom]

Same I lost my Stego to an Update

It's so boring to grow I decided to not to even try it again

Also most of the time packs don't even try to kill you, when I had that Stego only managed to kill couple dumb Deinos going inland and some Utahs, but most of the time people ignores you

And you end up just traveling

[tidal fjord]

Yeah, noticed that too... and u can't exactly force a fight... u can be am ass and take the corpse off of a carni pack (I must admit I did alot due to boredom) usually they would either just give it up or lose 1 to 2 members then give up

[tepid gate]

I've only ever grown Stego once after update 2 dropped and... never again

I'd probably have to be paid to grow this thing one more time

It was so boring - both growing it and playing it - that I'd rather watch paint dry

[tidal fjord]

Should become more fun when they add more capable hunters.

Should allos be be able to take on a stego?

[tepid gate]

I'd rather play those hunters in that case

[tidal fjord]

Yeah same

[tepid gate]

Yeah, for sure but most likely in a pack and not with ease

[tidal fjord]

Sounds like a good spot for the stego to be

[tidal fjord]

People played para in legacy

So there will be players for every Dino... no matter how useless

[tepid gate]

I'm aware, I think I've played it for a couple of minutes before yeeting it, definitely not my thing

Oh, for sure, there are people that enjoy this playstyle very much, not saying that Stego is a conceptually flawed creature it's just... not my thing to put it mildly

[tidal fjord]

Yeah... I'd have to agree, don't know about u but I'm generally not a fan playing herbis... only herbi I enjoyed was galli on a no rules server... kick what ever u can to death xD. Felt invincible.

No rules no alt turn server*

[pale bloom]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/802324269949255701/858099745784332298/20210625221516_1.jpg

I saw this couple days ago

Like 5 Stegos in the same spot

[vast wolf]

pretty sure stegos max herd size is 6

thats still a lot of stegos

[tidal fjord]

Lol

[limber hull]

i think one of the worst part about deino cannibals is the fact that deinos are so boring to fight as other deinos lmao

[honest sparrow]

Yeah

[rugged quarry]

Need me a land based finback dino in the game Conacvenator, Becklespinax, anything really that has a solar charge mechanic that slows stam use or something.

[paper oriole]

Well they already butchered spino to be land based looking at his legs and face so we got one lol

[odd sedge]

....what? What even is this suggestion for that squid thing?

[limber hull]

the tully monster is pretty funny tho

[odd sedge]

But Why

[hoary dawn]

ngl i support the tully monster

[muted fog]

Wouldn't call spino butchered but aight.

[oak tapir]

@cloud viper bruh Troodon is literally bigger than Ovi and is built for fighting , even if ovi was good in combat it unlikely that it’ll stand up to a venomous snake parrot hybrid with legs

@raw dock wtf, ok if that was in game then if like a carno is coming towards you as a baby stego you’ll just sleep and be immune, and also it’s a survival game , the only way u are not able to be killed is after death or on the respawn screen

[hoary dawn]

cutely

[vocal lichen]

Iam still have feeling that carno was hunter of smaller preys. based on it skull

[limber hull]

yea

its literally confirmed thats how it is

[vocal lichen]

Carno Bite force aroud 3300 Newtons and Tiger 4450,, saltwater croc 16,500 N 😄

t Rex 35,000

[vocal lichen]

@kindred flare not happening to me. is you pc ok ?

[kindred flare]

yeah my pc is fine, its just the game

my pc didnt freeze cause i can still move my mouse, alt tabe and whatnot bu i cant close the game or move around in it

nothing happens aside from the ambience playing

[tepid river]

the crashing and rubberbanding issues are something the devs have been working on to my knowledge. its something thats just gonna happen with early access and of course it would be a priority. kinda needs to stop being said in the feedback channels, they know its a problem and its not like they wouldnt fix it because people didnt suggest it.

if you can replicate it, it needs to go in the bug reports

[flat crypt]

honestly different levels of stagger would be great, it's something I've really wanted

[urban flax]

Yes, I was thinking of this for a very long time before deciding to post it

[flat crypt]

i wouldnt mind seeing level two result in a small flinch too, not enough to make a drastic change to overall movement, but makes them stutter for a moment

i like it though. it's not something that I think is technically necessary, but it'd be a really solid improvement overall and just make combat way more interesting and varied

really for much the same reason that having different fracture levels will make it more interested, as opposed to "walk it off vs absolutely screwed"

[urban flax]

Yes, I really don't like the fact that currently, attacks are "scripted" to either do nothing or absolutely destroy you

[barren zephyr]

the devs are always working on crashes and rubberbanding

[tepid river]

yeah that, thats what i said

[barren zephyr]

no, I was just confirming it. Lol

[silent current]

Not sure where is fun in combat when half (lets be honest, most) attacks prevent you from attacking back

[urban flax]

Is just standing there and spam clicking more fun ?

[silent current]

at least you can fight back

[urban flax]

Stagger mechanic isn't supposed to prevent you from fighting back

[silent current]

not at all

[tepid river]

id like to see stagger or a similar system honestly, or a more robust use of hitboxes and collision. it'd create a lot more strategy to fighting than having the biteforce to facetank or be patient and wait to starve/bleed out a target

[urban flax]

Yes, that's exactly the point I was trying to achieve with my stagger suggestion

[flat crypt]

plus there's a lot of attacks stagger probably wouldn't really fit anyway. a generic bite probably wouldn't do stagger in most cases. but a shoulder check, kick, or slam would

[urban flax]

The fact most staggers doesn't prevent you from moving allows you to dodge the next attack then retaliate

[urban flax]

Depends on the comparative size of the attacker and defender. I'd say a bite from the same species does level 1 stagger.

[silent current]

in other words, magy defense system, ew

[tepid river]

exactly. maybe just having it on the alt attacks, which at least from their animations and that most cost stam to use, would have a bit more oomph to them

[silent current]

yea it would be better on alt attacks

[flat crypt]

ye exactly. a galli kicking a utah absolutely wouldn't and shouldnt be enough to knock it flat to the ground, but kicking a troodon? That's more like it. And even so, kicking a utah could reasonably apply a slight stagger, like one of the levels bub suggested

[urban flax]

And it would look weird if the utah could just tank it and continue biting you

[flat crypt]

yep. even if it's not enough to push you over, getting kicked would still impact you. it's like when you walk along and accidentally bump into something. you're probably not getting sent flying to your feet, but it interrupts you for a moment

it'd just be nice to have more nuance in combat imo, it's something I'm always happy to welcome

already combat is certainly miles better than legacy, but there's still so much further it could go

[paper oriole]

50 minutes for a useless microraptor that cant pvp and would die to a compy

Micro wouldnt even be worth interacting with to the rest of the roster since it is basically 0 food

[flat crypt]

late because i had to go make dinner, but I wanted to add. I'd be wary of how hitbox and collision plays into something like a stagger system, in particular something to the effect of "hit with the middle of teno's tail is level 5, hit with the tip is level 1" because at the end of the day, this is an online multiplayer game, and it's important to account for different levels of connection

What a lot of people playing this game weirdly don't seem to get is that fighting someone with poor internet isn't just a difficult fight for them, but it's harder for you too. If they have poor internet, the server is having a harder time relying information to them and collecting it from them. And likewise, it has a harder time accurately telling you precise, up-to-date information about them. In an ideal world I absolutely would want that level of nuance in something like hitboxes in relation to stagger. But for the forseeable future, and in particular at this very moment when even people with good internet are having issues with the game, I think it's better to keep something like that a little on the simple side.

[sudden hinge]

@wanton hull the game isn’t built around the body down rule and shouldn’t conform to private server rules the cannibalism debuffs will help and also add a dynamic new way of playing the game

[wanton hull]

I don’t understand your point. The game isn’t built for any rules. The rules are usually there to to counter flawed game design i.e mixpacking, spawn killing, kos.
I like evrima and the isle but the worst part about the game are the players themselves.

[odd sedge]

I don't understand the group thingy

What is the purpose?

[wanton hull]

Basically if a teno is looking for another teno it can ask if anyone is online and where they are

[odd sedge]

But that would leak positions and could be abused by carnivores trying to hunt the herbis