general-feedback-discussion

[rotund star]

Yeah but it has a 75N bite force it can just use it to kos

[hybrid matrix]

KOS WHAT??? BABIES AND HYPSIS??

[rotund star]

And adult utahs on red.

when they are mixpacking

[hoary dawn]

in that specific situation yes

[hybrid matrix]

anyway while im here @low dock any criticism for me?

[still quail]

I got jumped by hypsi's as a juvie utah and they killed me :(

[gritty helm]

that sounds like more of a player issue than an issue with dryo itself lol

[hybrid matrix]

dont need that apostrophe there since its not possessive (this is ironic if ure reading this and irony impaired)

[rotund star]

Yes but what I am saying is it shouldn't be able to run down a adult utah

[hybrid matrix]

yes it should
it cant dodge

[still quail]

Autocorrect put it there not me

[hybrid matrix]

the only way it can escape is by running

[hybrid matrix]

ah ok

[rotund star]

Then if they nerf it, which they plan on redoing it but its not priority buff its dodge

[still quail]

They need to moderate official servers tbh

[low dock]

@hybrid matrix I personally think that when you’re starving you should have the blood on the screen as a visual representation of your health without having to access the character screen, also I don’t agree with the saliva tracking, seems like it would be much to difficult to survive if you were low on food, a visual effect would be cool tho

[rotund star]

All I am saying is that as a dryo player I think it should be nerfed.

[still quail]

Mix packing is a huge issue

[rotund star]

Yeah I hate all of them

[still quail]

And to think that there were people defending mix packing the other day

[hoary dawn]

they must be satan spawn

[hybrid matrix]

actually u shouldnt have to check ur health
u would be able to see how far gone u are by checking ur hunger
plus the saliva tracking was just a thought

[rotund star]

Yeah I can understand it with herbivores but even with that they should make it stress out the animal.

[still quail]

They were saying stuff like moderating the servers would run the fun of the mix packers

[hybrid matrix]

afk for a sec

[rotund star]

FUN?

[low dock]

Wdym mean by being able to see your health by your hunger bar?

[still quail]

Yes lol

[hybrid matrix]

u dont need to see ur health bc health isnt ur main concern when starving

[rotund star]

The isle is supposed to be a hardcore survival game, not team up with your friends, play as different animals, and KOS everything

[hybrid matrix]

u check how far into the negatives u are (hunger negatives) the way u check how much hugner u have normally

[low dock]

Ah ok now I get it thx

[hybrid matrix]

👍

[hoary dawn]

yes, sooner they add mechanics to dissuade mixpacking the better

[still quail]

Here is the start of it if you wanna read it

[rotund star]

^^^

[hybrid matrix]

and again, the saliva thing is just a suggestion, not part of the actual idea

[tepid gate]

Dryo doesn't need to dodge to escape a Utah. It was perfectly fine during the previous update when Utah ran faster than it.

Dryo is very much overtuned but it's not too big of an issue because its PvP potential is somewhat limited

[rotund star]

^^^^^

[hybrid matrix]

i kno but if dryo is slower than utah and has a sucky dodge then u gotta outsmart a utah even tho ur whole ability thats meant to keep u safe from predators is a load of garbage

plus

and hear me out

[tepid gate]

You really don't have to be doing much outsmarting to get away from a Utah as a Dryo

Even if you're 2km/h slower than it is

[hybrid matrix]

the dodge is supposed to save it
if it doesnt work then why is it there

whats the point

[tepid gate]

Of dodge? Idk to give it a special ability I guess?

[swift dew]

the way dryo plays right now is how galli should play but slightly less agile, dryo should be slower than utah but get a rework for its dodge

[tepid gate]

It's bad just like Carno's charge and Hypsi's spit but who cares

[hybrid matrix]

but why give it a non-functional ability??

[tepid gate]

Idk Hypsis ability is also pretty much non-functional

[hybrid matrix]

u just admitted that all 3 abilities need fixing

[tepid gate]

They do

[hybrid matrix]

ur only proving my point

[still quail]

That's a poor take on things lol, just make them better not "who cares if they are bad, these are also bad"

[swift dew]

carnos charge isnt even that bad, if you land it on something that can be knocked over its practically dead

[tepid gate]

Because the animal shouldn't be getting overbuffed just because its ability is lackluster

[swift dew]

the hard part is landing it, but it is extremely rewarding if you do

[tepid gate]

Carno's charge is atrocious

[still quail]

If it's ability is lack luster, fix it's ability, that's what I'm saying...

[hybrid matrix]

true but there is a bug where the cooldown pauses and then only goes away when u relog (i think it might also work if u bite)

[tepid gate]

It's the easiest way to kill a Carno - if it tries to charge you

[cyan flame]

Even if dryo dodge is crap, you didn't need it to escape utahs earlier. So dryo extra speed is unneeded, and does open for situations it shouldn't be in.

[tepid gate]

It eats up stamina at such an absurd rate that using it against a competent opponent is suicide

Exactly what Erik said ^

Dryo didn't need a speed buff even with its dodge being bad as it was

[hybrid matrix]

exactly why it needs to be better
better dodge = slower speed

[swift dew]

that is why you start the charge right when you hit something, you don't start the charge 2 minutes before

[barren zephyr]

@vestal flint

How is a carno out turning you?

[cyan flame]

My point was that even before, with slower speed, dryo was fine. Does the dodge need help, absolutely. Do you need it to escape, no, not really.

[tepid gate]

And your opponent just stands there and takes the charge on I guess

[barren zephyr]

Even before the carno nerfs I was juking them like crazy

its super simple

[hybrid matrix]

i think we're just agreeing on 2 different points

[swift dew]

its called an ambush, with carnos speed and all the bushes in the plains it is pretty easy to catch someone off guard

[barren zephyr]

Pretty sure I was juking carnos the day I started playing evirima

[tepid gate]

You need to reach full speed before you can use the charge - if someone lets you get to full speed without noticing you then idk what to tell you but that person is clearly not paying much attention to the game

[barren zephyr]

its impossible for carno to catch a competent utah player

[tepid gate]

^

[hybrid matrix]

and this comes back to the basic rule of surviving this game
smart ppl get rewards, dumb ppl get death

[cyan flame]

Possible. The dodge is crap, that much I agree with at least. The abilities in general need work, they all have issues. Utah dismount is off, carno charge is.. meh.. dryo dodge is meh.. hypsi spit.. is good for trolling I guess.. :D

[barren zephyr]

well of course most utahs aren’t competent

[swift dew]

how long does utah stamina last?

[hybrid matrix]

actually u cant rlly use hypsi spit even for trolling bc of how bad it is

[barren zephyr]

2 minutes at a minimum

maybe longer

[swift dew]

anyway, I said the charge isn't that bad, i didn't say it was good. but its essentially a death sentence if you get knocked over by it

[barren zephyr]

Carno was already nerfed into the ground and people want more….. and I have yet to see good reasoning for it

[cyan flame]

Huh, well thats even worse then :p

[solar peak]

it's sometimes easier to catch someone off guard when he's eating, and since eating animation has to stop it takes a little more time for them to react

[barren zephyr]

its always “ Im unable to use my A and D keys, nerf carno”

its that simple to juke

[hybrid matrix]

only military sniper units can effectively use hypsi spit

[tepid gate]

The only match up where Carno really wants to use the charge is in the match up against Tenonto - that's also the one match up where not hitting that charge is going to get you killed in most cases as the Tenonto can run you down and murder you if you run low on stamina. In other words - don't use the charge, it's only an unnecessary risk.

[solar peak]

carno seems strong only because of our current roster which has only utah as the other land carnivore, and even with that it's not hard to avoid carnos

[tepid gate]

Carno's pretty meh as it is. I don't really have any trouble with them no matter what I play

[swift dew]

I didn't say the charge was good, but any move that ends in a death sentence for your opponent if it works out cannot be considered bad

[tepid gate]

A move that ends up in your death sentence if it doesn't work out can and should be considered bad

[swift dew]

unless it is bad

[hybrid matrix]

[solar peak]

sorry but I'm not really interested in nesting

[swift dew]

[solar peak]

ok I'll help you

[paper oriole]

I was thinking about upvoting it but all the incorrect spellings of ‘your’ have dissuaded me because i am a prtty piece of shit

[swift dew]

[solar peak]

done

well some ppl are just too lazy to add them themselfes

so I did help

[paper oriole]

Some of the yours are spelt as you're when they shouldn't be and it is triggering my fragile mind

[barren zephyr]

if carno actually gets nerfed its going to be unplayable

[paper oriole]

My peeves can not be contained

[barren zephyr]

Carno is fine atm

making it worse would ruin it

[solar peak]

ye it will suck

[barren zephyr]

explain

[solar peak]

wdym

[barren zephyr]

That’s fine

[solar peak]

charge is an ambush tool, you won't use it in actual fight

[barren zephyr]

it can focus on that later

carno being more generalist right now makes sense, considering cerato/allo arent in

I wouldn’t mind making it more specialized in the future

But there’s too little dinosaurs to make carno super specialized

how

[solar peak]

what

[barren zephyr]

it has a losing matchup against everything

how?

Just tail slam

[solar peak]

maybe not against utahs, but then they can just run

[cyan flame]

I wonder if the problem isn't that people don't handle carnos correctly, if they fought them properly, the carnos might have to charge more often.

[barren zephyr]

how are you dying in a fair fight against carnos as teno?

Just aim tail slams

[paper oriole]

Also i believe digging the pit for the nest should be the first step of building, maybe it can create a template similar to the forest where after placing it you then gather materials to fill it in

[barren zephyr]

One hit leads to a combo

[cyan flame]

And I'm pretty sure tenno can take on carno yes, and utahs can run away so there is that.

[vestal flint]

Seems you don't know much about Evrima. For Legacy yea. Not for Evrima. Smh if the carbon is at least smarter than a plank of wood then yes, they are very difficult for a single Utah to win. Goes double if you're caught out in the open when getting food.

[barren zephyr]

it can’t

even if it hypothetically can, just tail slam it

[cyan flame]

That's why you move your ass a little.. :p

[solar peak]

it can, it reappeard from what I know

[paper oriole]

Rather than gathering materials and then making the hole, since dinos dont have inventory space

[swift dew]

not really. it can't fight a deino that spams alt bite. when a good teno shows up its 50/50, as soon as 2 good utahs show up your running for the hills, a single good stego should take care of you easy, hypsi gives no food so it isnt even worth attacking. and it can't kill safe dryos or pteras for obvious reasons

[solar peak]

^

[barren zephyr]

oh, just tail slam then

[tepid gate]

Playing Tenonto isn't really hard either - I've murdered any single Carno that tried to fight me without even putting much effort into it.

[barren zephyr]

teno essentially 1 shots carno though

[solar peak]

just move a little bit further so that it will hit your tail hitbox

[cyan flame]

Sixshot in what location, and do you mean it's too little or too much?

[barren zephyr]

leaves the carno on basically 0 HP

[hybrid matrix]

do you understand how survival works?
i explained how survival works
literally how it works irl
animals that make better decisions stay alive, while animals that are dumb die

[tepid gate]

If you land a single CC on a Carno it will have to disengage or die the next time it gets with any crowd control

[solar peak]

I know, but for now that's the solution

[barren zephyr]

so you dont like having to play skillfully?

[cyan flame]

@barren zephyrYou know, find us a test server, I'll fight you and we'll see how it goes? :)

I could use the practice, so out of touch with tenno these days

[barren zephyr]

just tail slam it

[hybrid matrix]

reward the smart, punish the dumb
thats survival in the most basic, easiest to understand terms

[barren zephyr]

you wont get punished if you dont facetank

[tepid gate]

That is a bug that will very likely get fixed with the next update though

[solar peak]

but on the other hand you can just spam it and cc it with no solution until your stam runs out

[tepid gate]

I've facetanked a Carno and killed it just fine

[barren zephyr]

use your tail

its that simple

[hybrid matrix]

@vestal flint

[tepid gate]

Tenonto is only really in trouble when there's more than one Carno around

whic admittedly happens quite often

[vestal flint]

Lol it's a game not real life. Think slow bro

[solar peak]

well it's 50/50 fight

[barren zephyr]

you aren’t

[tepid gate]

being gravely injured is a bigger issue for Carno than it is for Tenonto

[barren zephyr]

just tail slam instead of face tanking

[hybrid matrix]

ok
explain how survival should work?
punish the smart and reward the dumb?
punish everyone? reward everyone? tell me

[solar peak]

btw how many tail slams can teno land on carno before carno will be able to move again? (full stam)

[barren zephyr]

how is it hard?

Just play smart

how?

[tepid gate]

Tenonto is the last herbivore that needs any help... well maybe aside from Dryo

[solar peak]

dryo needs a nerf and ability remake

[hybrid matrix]

well @vestal flint?

im still waiting for an answer

[barren zephyr]

wouldn’t you take tail damage

that isnt a fair trade

[paper oriole]

Teno shouldn't be punished for landing its stun by having to continue tanking attacks from something that is supposed to be stunned while trying to eliminate the threat. It isn't a nerf to carno, things shouldn't be able to bite while stunned. People continuously whine about utah being punished from dismounting successful pounces, but it's ok for teno to be punished?

[barren zephyr]

but it isnt trading

tail hits barely hurt

[tepid gate]

While Carno shouldn't be able to bite while its stunned you're still making a better deal as you're hitting its head while its biting your tail and back

[barren zephyr]

^

[solar peak]

^

[hybrid matrix]

@vestal flint still havent given me an answer

[paper oriole]

You are continuing to take damage from something that is supposed to be stunned though

[tepid gate]

It's a big though, it will get fixed

It got fixed before and reappeared now seemingly

[solar peak]

let him live maybe he is offline

[barren zephyr]

it barely matters in reality it should be fixed though

but it doesnt make carno “dominate” tenon

[tepid gate]

Well... it's a "feature" that keeps reappearing for whatever reason

[solar peak]

we have been telling you that for past 5 mintues

[paper oriole]

Well if we can all agree it should be fixed then there is bo problem, yes?

[barren zephyr]

yea

[tepid gate]

Yea I still don't think that this is a bad match up for Tenonto even with that bug being present.

[hybrid matrix]

who leaves an argument without saying "aight i gtg do stuff irl"
and u cant argue that it might be an emergency bc he took the time to change his status from "idle" to "offline"
i think he gave up

[solar peak]

:)

[tepid gate]

The bigger issue is the fact that people can create those enormous megapacks of Carnos

[paper oriole]

Carno shouldnt have teno on its priority list at all when more small things come out anyway

[barren zephyr]

some people dont care about discord that much when I need to leave, I leave

[solar peak]

I think you just ended talking for a sec so he left

[tepid gate]

It shouldn't but really Carno's not that good at hunting smalls at all as it is

[hybrid matrix]

although
i do wanna kno if there's any basic rule of survival that actually makes sense aside from "reward the smart, punish the dumb"

[solar peak]

ye it's not that easy to ambush and hit smth if it's not eating, drinking etc

[tepid gate]

It's trash at hunting smalls unless the player it's hunting is really bad. I run in circles around Carnos as both Utah and Dryo

[solar peak]

^

[barren zephyr]

it isnt as good as it should be

[tepid gate]

The fact that I can stroll up to a Carno pack as a Dryo kill their juvies and walk away from that says it all

[barren zephyr]

even if it gets a ambush, as long as the prey has a brain it can juke the hell out of carno, and since carno has trash stamina it has no chance

[solar peak]

I'm doing similar thing but with hypsi lol

[tepid gate]

Charge is utter garbage

[barren zephyr]

is trash

teno is better at hunting smalls the carno

so you admit carno isnt good at hunting smalls?

[solar peak]

if they buffed it's maneuverability it would be better

[barren zephyr]

charge needs a buff

big one to

[solar peak]

I'm talking about a charge

[barren zephyr]

running them down?

[solar peak]

I mean maneuverability while charging

[barren zephyr]

How are you getting run down by carno

just use your A and D key

they just suck

[solar peak]

well then carno isn't strong, they just suck

[barren zephyr]

Ive been juking pre nerf carnos since the first day ive played evrima

its that easy

yes

most isle players are utter garbage

those players suck

or you’re slightly above average

[barren zephyr]

maybe even average

[solar peak]

new ppl are coming from legacy, youtubers or streamers, and some ppl are just bad, if you meet someone who actually knows what juking means it won't be that easy

[cyan flame]

We really need a test server to see who has it right here.. :p

[tepid gate]

It's not even really good at that. You can easily juke a Carno if you put some effort into it. But occasionally you will run into a Utah player that just runs in a straight line and lets you hit them repeatedly making it seem like Carno's actually good at killing stuff like that.

[barren zephyr]

I mean, if I was able to do it on my first day of playing evrima even before the carno nerfs, even average players should be able to

It boggles my mind how someone gets run down by carno

……

[solar peak]

and the other things can just fight it

[barren zephyr]

isnt that the point?

and?

Everything else can fight it

[cyan flame]

Well.. wasn't the point that utah and dryo (and maybe hypsi) can juke.. a tenno does not juke a carno, it fights it? or at least does a fighting retreat..

[solar peak]

they are the only ones in our current roster that are in category carno "should" hunt

[barren zephyr]

I count juveniles in balance

at least not much

good hypsi players can juke carnos

[tepid gate]

Hypsi has an even easier time juking a Carno but it's a meme animal anyways

[barren zephyr]

Yeah

[solar peak]

I easily juke carnos as hypsi, and juvis are juvis, they are smaller dinos, you shouldn't be going out on plain to meet up with carno pack

[barren zephyr]

its super easy

Ive played hypsi for a bit, it’s honestly fine

[tepid gate]

I definitely don't think that Hypsi should be what Carno should be hunting

[solar peak]

hypsi is the one I train juking carnos lol, doesn't take any time to grow and is as easy as when playing utah or dryo

[still quail]

@desert tendon Dryo burrowing isn't coming back

[hybrid matrix]

@desert tendon the dodge is broken, u cant use it
dryo isnt getting burrowing back (iirc)
and burrowing isnt an important mechanic

[still quail]

Dryo was able to burrow in legacy because it was the only thing that made sense at the time

[desert tendon]

it literally says that dryo will hide in its burrow in the roadmap

[hybrid matrix]

doesnt mean that it's gonna make burrows

[still quail]

Idk, kissen has said its not coming back

[hybrid matrix]

it'll most likely steal other burrows

[desert tendon]

they should change the text on the roadmap then

[hybrid matrix]

im pretty sure it doesnt say that tho

lemme check

[still quail]

Yeah but everything is subject to change

[desert tendon]

i literally looked at it like 5 seconds ago

[still quail]

So it could get burrowing, but not based on what kissen said

[hybrid matrix]

nvm it does say it

[desert tendon]

see

i aint dumb

[hybrid matrix]

i didnt call u dumb

[desert tendon]

at least in this particular statement

[desert tendon]

i know

it was self imposed

i thought i was dumb

[hybrid matrix]

well thats ur problem
not mine

im still not sure dryo is gonna be able to make burrows tho

i think its gonna be a burrow thief

[desert tendon]

if its not gonna make burrows they gotta change that in the roadmap

[hybrid matrix]

but it doesnt say that it'll make burrows

all it says is that it'll use burrows to escape predators

[desert tendon]

it says it will use IT'S burrow

hmmm

[hybrid matrix]

for all we know it might be a typo

plus a dev said that it probably wont make burrows

[desert tendon]

quite the conundrum

[hybrid matrix]

i think its a typo

[still quail]

Like I said everything is subject to change but I'm going off of what kissen said

[desert tendon]

ight

i was just reading what the roadmap said and i thought that dryo wasnt finished or somth

besides minmi what else will be able to burrow

[honest sparrow]

homalo, proto, and another thing I forgot

[desert tendon]

homalo?

whats that

oh i see

a small pachycephalosaurid

[broken thorn]

@barren zephyr Very cool nesting idea, will give the mechanic some depth and more immersion, there was nothing more barebones than pressing B, digging up a hole and sitting on it for an hour, just to have players spawn in as tiny copies of you, literally pressing "eat" on the nest. Good idea!

[solar peak]

btw crispy as you can see I helped

[still quail]

Btw @barren zephyr I can tell you now that the mating stuff you explained won't happen, it's going to be like fish

Female lays egg, male fertilizes egg kinda thing

[shell arrow]

@barren zephyr

[vestal rune]

@barren zephyr this is well-known by the community, personally I'd prefer it to keep the name "troodon" as it's technically a fake animal, so the devs can do whatever the fuck they want with it

for example, venom

[barren zephyr]

my only issue is that plenty of people learn about dinos through games like this, not having the time to do research on there own. I think that trying to keep a dead genus alive would hurt some peoples understanding of these animals

[vestal rune]

I think it's better to have a fake animal be called by a fake name, then to have a fake animal called by a real name when it looks nothing like the real animal

which is why I'd prefer it if animals like spinosaurus and maybe even utahraptor got name changes, as they don't resemble their irl counterparts at all

[barren zephyr]

I get what your saying, honestly if it's a conscious choice by the devs as opposed to the result of misinformation, it's less of a big deal

[vestal rune]

fairly sure it is, there are devs on the team which are really attentive tothat sort ofgame

for example, baardo is a modeller who also works on saurian, a game which tries to accurately recreate the bone butte formation in hell creek, he's probably in one the new dino science lol

btw if you haven't heard of saurian you should check it out, you clearly enjoy accurate dinosaurs

[barren zephyr]

Yeah, saurian does look promising

I also agree about the new spino for sure

it's quite bulky

[paper oriole]

I agree honestly, it's already upsetting seeing the mutant freak “utahraptor” “ankylosaurus” and “spinosaurus” who are so warped and wrecked still carry the name of the original animal, we don't also need stenonychosaurus facing that same humiliation

Plus troodon is just easier to say lmao

[vestal rune]

ye and troodon also scores JP-nostalgia points

although for some more obscure entries in the series but still

[paper oriole]

Just like the jp ripoff spino and utah, it's a theme

[vestal rune]

they said they'd change utah's name, kinda disappointed they didn't

honestly it should just be called novaraptor

[paper oriole]

Yeah just call it Novaraptor Dondii or something lmao

[feral solstice]

Dondiraptor

[vestal rune]

albertosaurus also needs a rename to "tarbosaurus"

[barren zephyr]

they could also call it by the invalid name of velociraptor antirrhopus since that's what it's based off of

might be confusing with mongoliensis tho

if they keep that

[paper oriole]

“Tarbosaurus Scammer”
“Novaraptor Dondii”
“Spinorex Defraudo”

[molten tulip]

just name it dave

[vestal rune]

novaraptor would make the most sense for utah as it has strong connections with the lore, but something like speroraptor wouldn't be that bad

[paper oriole]

@barren zephyr you've posted that twice today, three times in total. That is unnecessary

[barren zephyr]

Sorry

[crystal sage]

I think y’all are forgetting that, for at least the Utah, it’s going to get a more accurate feathered remodel in the future. Right now focus is more on getting Evrima up to par

[paper oriole]

i already know utah was planned to get a feathered option, but did theyc onfirm if they will fix its arms on that option? if it is feathered+pronated it will still look horrific

[hoary dawn]

i mean it is a horror game

[paper oriole]

[still quail]

Bruh you can only suggest one thing per 6 hours? rip

Just deleted my suggestion because I messed it up instead of editing it

lol

[icy lion]

lol i was about to say

you can edit it

[still quail]

idk if I could have added a spoiler to an image after I send it though.

Didnt want to send it without it because of gore

[icy lion]

if its a link you can, but if its an upload then no

and gore isnt allowed regardless

[still quail]

It was an upload, so no

oh

well

Its gone either way

Not even like in a drawing?

Its not real gore

[icy lion]

drawings are fine, its just real gore that isnt

[still quail]

Its was just a drawing

[icy lion]

yea thatd be fine then

with drawings we usually just ask it to be spoilered, which is what you tried

so youd be good to go

[paper oriole]

XL is like brachiosaurus tier? One Rex needs something brachi sized to fill 100%? Lmao

Dont need apexes being encouraged to kill multiple 6hr+ dinos for one fill, KFS is probably going to stay a problem anyway that just gives them an excuse

[worn pumice]

wait so ur telling me stego sized dinos would basically be half hunger?

smh

[paper oriole]

A ptera needs a whole utah sized animal for fill? Lmao

Ptera casually eating several times its own weight in one sitting

Utah needing to eat a whole stego to feed itself lmfao

[worn pumice]

carno

a small game hunter

would need stego sized animals to fill up

lmao

[paper oriole]

Carno being encouraged to hunt apexes is a big yikers too lmao

That whole chart is out of wack

[worn pumice]

just gonna ignore it its a little too wacky for me

[paper oriole]

@steady sleet were you drunk when you made this chart?

[quiet estuary]

Creatures of varying sizes should have creatures of varying sizes as their preferred food. Not x size = y size is your favorite prey item automatically

[paper oriole]

Considering carnis will apparently bave looser restrictions on diets, bracketing the ranges specific carnis should need to focus on may be a good way to go about it, but that chart is all sorts of wrong

And diets cover much more than how much you need in order to fill, which shouldnt be a huge portion of your own body weight or even massively exceeding it like this guy is suggesting

[steady sleet]

it was just an idea you have a better idea

?

[paper oriole]

Yeah i have a better idea: don't make 500kg dinos eat 6000kg dinos in order to fill one hunger bar

Carnis should maybe require 20% of their body weight in food to fill their bar, sometimes varying a little between the dino

Carnis should be punished with shorter growth and lack of perks for staying below their bracket on diets, not be encouraged to stay in them by having to down something 5x+ their size per sitting

[steady sleet]

everything can be improved it was just an example

[worn pumice]

certain dinos get more or less food depending on how they hunt and their niche

even though teno and carno have a 50/50 carnos diets hopefully shouldnt include teno

dilos dryos utah etc should be in its diet path

[paper oriole]

In the future it should be scewed more in tenonto’s favour than it is now anywau, after more smalls are added

Carno should be able to fill on smalls, with a somewhat fast food drain countering it

[worn pumice]

once carnos become less agile teno will automatically become better from it

[paper oriole]

It should be rewarded by the perk and growth system for keeping to its small prey bracket and receive no perks for straying from it

[worn pumice]

wait what should utahs diet be?

[quiet estuary]

Galli

Other Utahs

(I want gang wars)

[paper oriole]

Probably everything, utah's diet varies by its pack size

It would obviously have exceptions like magy

But those are special cases

[worn pumice]

cuz in massive packs like 8-10 they could have apex in their diets

[quiet estuary]

Just because something is huntable doesnt mean it should be your preferred food

[worn pumice]

while solo they could try no go for a galli or dryo

[paper oriole]

Pack hunters, deino, cerato would have much looser restrictions than a carno or a rex for example

[worn pumice]

i hope stego isnt in deinos diet

[cyan flame]

@worn pumiceI would say tenno to maybe sub-apex/young adult, and nothing solo. A solo utah can survive, quite well, no negatives. But for boost, you should require things that needs pack hunting. This would also be interesting for nesting, a good pack that can successfully hunt bigger stuff can raise little chicks far better than a pair.

[paper oriole]

They should just balance them so deinos don't want to target things like stego, trike, rex, etc

[worn pumice]

dynamic diets for carnivores would be interesting

[paper oriole]

But deino seems like it would just eat anything it can

While carno would be discouraged from eating large dinos, and be rewarded for eating small ones

[quiet estuary]

Dynamic diets for carnivores imo should change with growth and not group limit

[paper oriole]

And rex would be discouraged from eating small animals, and be rewarded for the risk of taking down equal to larger sized dinos

[cyan flame]

Dynamic diets for everything, makes for interesting competition potential

[worn pumice]

^

hey uh ik this is general feedback but r those ocean noises mosa sounds?

[quiet estuary]

For herbis imo it should just cycle once youve eaten x amount of a preferred food
with age playing a role in it as well

would be an interesting way to split up herds where some go to a place to eat ferns but another go elsewhere to eat shrooms or something

[paper oriole]

Would be cool to see chill mixed herds of obligated grazers/waterplant munchers contrasted by a kentro and ava tussling over some mushrooms

[worn pumice]

semi aquatic anky

[quiet estuary]

what

[paper oriole]

Some herbis being encouraged to be more aggressive than others who are encouraged to be the most social like legacy herds basically were

[paper oriole]

[pale bloom]

I would make everything possible with diets to avoid Herbie mixpacking. Honestly

[quiet estuary]

Mixpacking is fine

[paper oriole]

Being social is like the main perk of being herbi

[quiet estuary]

Both for herbivores and carnivores

It just shouldnt be nearly as abusable as it was in legacy

[pale bloom]

No it's not, legacy example is the true meaning of OP

[quiet estuary]

Legacy was also a complete mess of balance

[paper oriole]

Ik you probably want to deplete the herbi playerbase more but people who actually like herbi want it to remain somewhat appealing

[pale bloom]

Give a reason to Herbies to compete for food

[quiet estuary]

They should compete for food

But you can also have species which share food sources which are plentiful

which when they arent plentiful anymore well

Competition begins

[paper oriole]

Some herbis should be encouraged to be aggressive and competitive, some shouldnt have much reason to, shit differs

[honest sparrow]

So can I kill other herbis as a herbi so they can’t eat my leaves

And be justified in doing so

[pale bloom]

And then having Stegos mixpacking with Theris (as a bare example) so predators have no chance unless they outnumber them

[quiet estuary]

You can be justified at any time doesnt matter

Including now

[honest sparrow]

I always kill my own

[quiet estuary]

doesnt matter if Im hungry

[cyan flame]

But it's not your own you're supposed to be killing, it's everything else :p

[quiet estuary]

A vast majority of predators wouldnt even go for such herds. And in the case you want to wait till the shared food sources are depleted

Even though stego and theri would most likely have completely different preferred diets

[paper oriole]

To be fair, predators usually do outnumber herbis on the map by far. Aside from that point, it would obviously encourage most large and powerful herbis to keep distance and be competitive, while slow and/or non combative grazers would have less reason to be

[cyan flame]

No food bush respawn incident = herbi competition :D

[quiet estuary]

That was a fun time

[pale bloom]

That's just like saying that staying in a herd means you're inmortal, which is basically what is was happening on Legacy

[quiet estuary]

That isnt saying that at all

Its saying as a predator you need to be patient

If something at the current time is too dangerous to attack, wait till it is less dangerous

[paper oriole]

Lmao no, herds constantly get whittled down in legacy, and not all herbis would be encouraged to mix herd

You wouldnt have shants and trikes being encouraged to mix herd with diets

[pale bloom]

You can have all the patience of the world, even if you manage to kill anything the rest of herd would do bodyguarding, that's why I said mixpacking should be avoided at all cost unless it's something like Stego/Dryo which is fine as Dryo can't really fight back

And acts a scouter

[quiet estuary]

About bodyguarding

Generally when i leave for like a good minute (still stay in sniff range of the corpse) The herbivores leave thinking i did as well

[pale bloom]

Depends, 2 Rexes don't touch a mixed herd of Stegos, 1 Shant and 1 Theri, they have everything to lose there

[quiet estuary]

And again if patient, the herbis will leave for more food

ofc currently they can graze

but once diets are in grazing wont be too effective

[paper oriole]

And theri wouldn't be encouraged to mix herd with shants in evrima, so and so. I don't see how this is so hard for you to grasp

Some herbis will be encouraged to be cross species social while others will not

[pale bloom]

? I'm just giving examples

[paper oriole]

Easy as that

[quiet estuary]

He is giving examples of mixherds which will always be possible no matter what diets occur

they will be hard yes

[pale bloom]

Encouraged of not people will just mixpack, everyone does as you don't have a real reason to kill an herb being an herb yourself

[quiet estuary]

And hell maybe rarely ever happen
But I dont think there will ever be a mixed group which doesnt occurs

[barren zephyr]

wth is the new phase 2 sounds

mosasaur?

[quiet estuary]

My bet is oceanic ambience

but this isnt the place to ask

[paper oriole]

Ok so that has nothing much to do with encouraging and discouraging doets, it will happen regardless just like carni mixpacking and other toxic things

[worn pumice]

its most likely some kind of oceanic ambiance i doubt they would legit release mosa sounds

[quiet estuary]

How is carni mixpacking toxic

[swift dew]

you know there are big monsters that are far worse than actual animals in this game right?

[paper oriole]

So why conplain if diets encourage certain species

Are you a carni mixpacker cheech

[quiet estuary]

I play as I play when I want to play

[paper oriole]

I'll just take that as a yes

[quiet estuary]

So if I see a utah doing work for me
Ill let it do the work for me

[barren zephyr]

I know that but it's title name is just ocean1 and ocean2

[quiet estuary]

But carnivores mixpacking is completely fine, hell its something which occurs in nature from time to time

[cyan flame]

Mixpacking is bad for balance, as is mixherding. While we can allow certain things that don't do combat or are otherwise too good at upsetting balance/compensating for other critters weaknesses, to mix, most are not suited for it.

[silk heath]

piggy anything wrong about being nested as a 5% hypo?

[quiet estuary]

lmao

[pale bloom]

This

[quiet estuary]

yes erik

[cyan flame]

Because that's not at all how you're supposed to get a strain, and because strains don't grow, most likely. They become, and then they die soon after, having died to one malfunction of the body or another.

[paper oriole]

In nature carnis aren’t taking up 80% of the ecosystem while hunting herbis so it can't be compared to real life

[quiet estuary]

It doesnt mean you cant have methods to do it (in a balanced way) ingame

[silk heath]

I never knew that thank you

[swift dew]

first of all, hypers are a server wipe, second of all, 5% is ridiculously high for something that powerful, and third of all even if it was a 0.00001 percent change, people would nest, then kill themselves, and nest untill they got it. so no thank you

[cyan flame]

Problem is, it's very hard to balance Cheech. I'd rather we have this as species vs species, and not "faction vs faction".

[paper oriole]

Wait somebody wants strains to come from nesting?

Yikers

[silk heath]

wait isn't 5% very low?

[quiet estuary]

its 1 in 20

[swift dew]

5 percent is 1 in 20

[silk heath]

oh

[cyan flame]

That's way too many hypers, no matter how you get them.. :p

[quiet estuary]

Also random chance for the most powerful thing in the game is idiotic

[paper oriole]

Also strains shouldnt be RNG they should require actual work

[swift dew]

that is not low for the physical embodyment of death

[quiet estuary]

Should be something properly difficult to get

[worn pumice]

someone out there even if its a super low percent chance will redo eggs over n over again till hypo

it wont work out well

[silk heath]

I got inspired by a Roblox game but it's fine

[cyan flame]

@silk heathThink of strains as ecosystem resets, especially the hypers. You become one, somehow, and then you spend all of a few hours of your life killing everything to avoid starvation, only to die when you run out of stuff.

[pale bloom]

People will just "farm" Hypos that way, I don't really see it work like that

[quiet estuary]

but returning to mixpacking

Imo it is possible to do in a balanced manner if it mostly discouraged or something not too common
with the occassional time it does happen

Like as miragaia said herbis who graze moving together in a herd across a grasslands
Or for a carni example a utah taking advantage of a small predator scaring burrowing animals out of their burrows

[cyan flame]

It's not a playable, it's a living nuke :p

[wild stone]

Here's my question. What happens if a hyper rex gets to 50% hunger and just... logs out?

And then they get their friend to grow a trike so they can slaughter it for food, when the server is low pop?

People will snackrifice. What's the plan to stop stuff like this? Will hypers lose some food even while logged out?

[cyan flame]

You'd probably not get enough food Hippo. One trike? Yeah, you got 2 more min of living.

Probs not even that.

[pale bloom]

Getting a strain should be hard in a way it can't be exploited, no percentages/random chances, you gotta work for it yourself

[swift dew]

they grow a trike, you eat it and you come out with 60% hunger

[cyan flame]

You'd need 50 trikes.

[quiet estuary]

Hypers food drain are faster than that

[paper oriole]

Sinply taking advantage of another predator or an aggresive herbi/omni's actions on the moment is not what mixpacking means

[quiet estuary]

Wasnt trike like a good 5% in the legacy hypers?

[cyan flame]

They'd have to grow an entire ecosystem worth of food for you to gain anything useful out of it

[paper oriole]

Actual mixpacking from carnis should be discouraged

[patent garden]

why wouldnt they just wait until the entire rest of the server is grown again to log back in?

i.e, wait like 2 days or smth

[cyan flame]

No idea, I'm just thinking it should be so harsh you're literally on a timer. You kill, eat, kill, and if you can't find something for an hour, you're dead. Shit out of luck :p

[patent garden]

instead of that “trike friend” thing

[quiet estuary]

It literally is on a timer already in Legacy if i recall right

You starve so fast only hundreds of body could keep you sustained

[wild stone]

Alright. So what if I grow a hyper, then log out in a popular area and just play on that server every couple of days after people have had a chance to grow their stuff back?

My hyper would never starve. It would just harvest the ecosystem periodically. Is that intended?

[cyan flame]

You'd probably not get enough food to not starve, just delay it.

[quiet estuary]

That hotspot would eventually stop being a hotspot

[swift dew]

because everything you eat is so meaningless to your hunger, that eating the entire server wouldn't let you survive, I would say let hyper hunger last 45 minutes, but you get next to no food for even the biggest kills

[quiet estuary]

Players owuld move when they realize a strain is logged out there after being wiped multiple times

[cyan flame]

I think we're working on two different ideas here. I imagine you can't fill up, you simply will not have enough food, even if all the players were there.

So you'd starve, it's not about staying alive, it's about delaying death

You will die, no matter what, it's just that you get to slaughter everything you can find first, and delay death a bit so you can maybe slaughter some more. But no matter how you do it, you'll lose more than you gain.

[patent garden]

arent most hypers going to be insanely fast anyways tho? wouldnt they just be able to go to other hotspots if they changed?

[wild stone]

So what you're telling me is that I'm going to put in loads of effort into figuring out a janky system that doesn't work half the time, so that I can grow a hyper, and then automatically starve as a result? Why even have hypers at that point?

[honest sparrow]

Yeah

[cyan flame]

They're a nuke. You do it cause you want to go "I'm gonna wipe everyone" and that's it. Then you die and start something normal.

It's not a normal playable by any means

[quiet estuary]

From my understanding of mixpacking. Mixpacking means two different species working together to achieve a common goal
So the example I gave would be two carnivores working together to kill as many of these burrowing animals as possible

if that doesnt suit it maybe another better example can be
A bary and an austro isntead of killing one another, fishing as much as possible and eating the rewards

[wild stone]

If your idea of hyper is accurate, that's a terrible idea and they shouldn't be in the game.

[honest sparrow]

I remember hypo rex was carno speed way back in the day, I don’t know if it’s still the same thing tho

[quiet estuary]

Its a great idea

You shouldnt be allowed to be the most powerful thing forever

[patent garden]

whats the alternative then

if its not on a timer

[honest sparrow]

Hypos are a reset button

They destroy everything and then starve

[cyan flame]

They're not meant to be a normal playable. It's literally you being allowed to be unstoppable for a very short period of time. While you're a hyper, everything dies. But you will die, it's a matter of maybe delaying it a bit while eating, but in the long run it won't save you.

[honest sparrow]

They’re a power trip that only ever ends 1 way

[cyan flame]

Exactly!

[wild stone]

But so are normal elders that will give me perks. Am I going to get nothing for making it to Hyper?
Hypers should be an achievement that come with a reward.

[cyan flame]

Elder grows slightly more powerful, and then grow weak

[feral solstice]

Hypers are the reward

[honest sparrow]

Elders are slight improvements

[cyan flame]

And you can most likely die before going schmememe?

[patent garden]

the reward is killing everyone

[honest sparrow]

Hypos are like

Insanely powerful

[patent garden]

lmao

[cyan flame]

Well, temporarily elder is powerful, but probs nowhere near like a hyper rex :p

[honest sparrow]

Comparatively

[cyan flame]

But elders also grow weak, and then die

And you have to die of old age to get something

[quiet estuary]

Elders while not nearly as powerful as hypers are far better option as they are permanent improvements to your "main"animal

while they may not be that good of improvements

[cyan flame]

Not die 5 min before because you're as weak as a juvie and then die to a solo utah :p

And elders should be the main thing, not strains, I think at least

[pale bloom]

Alternative is just don't release Hypos as accessible for normal players and only make them "Admin Dinos" so they can be used on server events, yes admin abuse will exist but there's always a price to pay for. I don't see any other way to keep strains out of reach

[quiet estuary]

not such as dps buffs or whatnot but other qol stuff
the perks are far better imo to have then immortal god for 40 minutes of play

[cyan flame]

They're the gameplay loop

[feral solstice]

Tell me, you knew Hypers would be a one way go, decided “hey i want to play as this”, you get the hyper, decide you DONT care if your original Dino dies so you can play as the hyper, and ravage the entire server. That’s literally the reward

[cyan flame]

Strains are basically going outside for a little bit, to do something you normally can't do

[feral solstice]

Strains literally allow you to control the ecosystem.

[honest sparrow]

Hypos are a thrill, a roller coaster, an unstoppable force that kills everything then bites the bullet, elders are improvements that provide reward afterwards, but grow weaker and eventually die

[cyan flame]

Oh there are some ways to make it very hard, I'm pretty sure :p

[wild stone]

Exactly. So what's the point of hypers. Hypers are both more difficult to achieve than an elder, and literally impossible to maintain, from what you're telling me. Although I am skeptical of this chat's conception of strains.

[quiet estuary]

Fun

thats the point

[feral solstice]

^

[honest sparrow]

Hypos are like forest fires, they burn down everything, and allow it to regrow

[paper oriole]

Two different carni species actively working together to mass kill and hunt things they typically shouldn't is bad balance and unfair to the players having their hours of gameplay taken away by OP mix packers covering eachothers' weaknesses

[feral solstice]

If you decide to play as a strain, you’re more or less sacrificing your Dino to get the ultimate fun.

[cyan flame]

The point is you get to be invincible temporarily and shit on everything, no matter what it is. You just wade into a herd of trikes and go "you all die now", you meet a megagroup of rexes (somehow), they just die..

[honest sparrow]

(Once they die anyway)

[feral solstice]

It’s technically a playable server reset

[honest sparrow]

Hypos aren’t intended to function as nomral playables

[pale bloom]

This whole thing applies for herbs aswell, there's no factions on mixpacking

[honest sparrow]

Nor should they be balanced as such

[cyan flame]

I mean, we got a neurotenic spino that may or may not control weather

[pale bloom]

It's OP on both sides

[cyan flame]

I don't know if that's a thing that should be around on a server :p

[wild stone]

That's only fun for one person in the encounter. That's literally just a shitty experience for 99 players out of 100 connected on the server. Terrible design.

[honest sparrow]

Hypos give a unique thrill to the game

[feral solstice]

That’s the whole point of a strain

[pale bloom]

And you won't see Carnis mixpack as much as herbs does, think the worst it's cross-mixpacking

[cyan flame]

That's the point of them. Hence why they should be almost impossible to get and meet.

[feral solstice]

You legit can hide from a strain if you must. I’m telling you strains will call and be as loud as possible lmao

[quiet estuary]

Well the entire "they typically shouldnt" thing is obvious. Mixpacking shouldnt allow things to hunt things they shouldnt be able to hunt at least not to an exaggerated degree such as utahs on stegos

Hell currently it really doesnt at all
I dont see why that trend wouldnt continue

[cyan flame]

Plus the size. Just go into trees. We've seen that in legacy. :p

[honest sparrow]

You literally only prolong the inevitable against them, you are going to die, but the adrenaline of having this monstrosity chasing you and trying to escape is awesome

[paper oriole]

Not exactly, considering factors like many herbis aren't equipped to fight, many are too slow to run. Certain species being encouraged to group together is much less unbalanced than any pair of predators designed to chase and kill being paired together

[honest sparrow]

You basically live a horror movie against them

It’s such a cool concept

[quiet estuary]

The herbis who are too slow to run generally are equipped to defend themselves
And the opposite

[feral solstice]

then again, Rex is said to knock down trees
Imagine a hyper

[cyan flame]

Oh yeah, true. Well, caves then! :p But then the tribals might get you ^^

Or worse stuff.. :p

[pale bloom]

Maybe not with the current playables but I can see some herb mixpack that would cover other dinos weaknesses like Stego slowness, just add a Theri there or a Maia and there you go

[quiet estuary]

Implying maia will still retain its idiotic legacy speeds

[paper oriole]

Generally, but some are simply too slow to be an active threat and wouldn't be harmful to be packing with other non offensive herbis

[quiet estuary]

Hopefully thatll change

[pale bloom]

Which it might should. Depending on the roster and abilities

[worn pumice]

maia was literally faster then utah in legacy lol

[cyan flame]

@feral solsticeWe also got mercs that may or may not get anti-hyper weaponry. So there is that :p While every dino player runs, mercs just go "Hunting time!" :p

[tepid gate]

Very much so - mixherding allows them to overcome their inherent weaknesses in the very same way as mixpacking does for carnivores. You can have smaller, faster dinosaurs like Dryos scouting for a herd where Tenontos are used to slow down CC and bleed the thing and Stegos work as the heavy cavalry that's used to deal the final blow. Fortunately for now it's not an issue as there are no rules and not enough people play Evrima to pull that stuff off but it was already an issue back in the legacy once upon a time.

[paper oriole]

You keep throwing “stego and theri” together which contradicts the point i am trying to make. Theri has offensive capabilities and probably will stay that way, i said herbis who are not equipped like that should be allowed to herd together. You keep using specific pairups of brawlers and powerful defensive herbis which isn't even what i am trying to propose or defens

[tepid gate]

Which is how we got Trikes that can't herd with other herbivores

[quiet estuary]

dryo scouts as diablos chased the preds while trikes walked all the way back, that was fun

[cyan flame]

Also not very balanced :p

Maia bonebreak on headbutt

[quiet estuary]

Not much of legacy was

[cyan flame]

Yes, let me just run down the giga, break its leg, then let my trike friends murder it :p

[pale bloom]

@paper oriole This guy just answered for me, I don't need to explain it any further

[tepid gate]

I believe that there are some specific combinations of animals that don't really cause a problem balance wise if they group together but those are really only very specific combinations. This applies both to carnivores and herbivores.

[paper oriole]

Nope, because he made an example with many species like tenontos and stegos mix herding. I am talking CERTAIN species being encouraged to be social, not random ass selective species grouped up to make death squads like you guys are bringing up

[tepid gate]

Certain species being social is fine but those are more of an exception than the norm in terms of their effect on balance.

[quiet estuary]

My examples of carnivore mixpacking you said was unbalanced was CERTAIN species being encouraged by common goals to be not agressive to one another

[pale bloom]

Then there shouldnt be any issue with Carnos mixpacking with Utahs right? Because Carno does the exact same as Utah just with bigger health pool, and honestly it doesn't seem right

[paper oriole]

Your example included two carni species working together to “kill as many burrowing animals as possible”

[pale bloom]

Because Carnos Should be hunting Utahs

[quiet estuary]

yes, in that specific scenario

Where there was a burrow, and a burrow invader and another carni came upon it

[pale bloom]

I just answered you that with the Dryo/Stego thing. I'm alright with that

[paper oriole]

Mix packing shouldn’t be utilized to go on killing sprees

[quiet estuary]

Killing sprees are completely fine, whether mixpackign exists or not

[paper oriole]

Animals who are not equipped with offensive capabilities can mix pack with little issue, animals who are equipped to kill should be discouraged from mix packing. It is that simple

[quiet estuary]

And in my current example the deaths are avoidable as well (at least if burrows recieve multiple exits which from that stream with filipe it did have if i recall right)

[pale bloom]

That's why Stego (as Herb current example) shouldn't be able to mixpack with Tenos

[paper oriole]

Not if a cerato is mix packing with a dino who can raid burrows to flush the burrowing animals out

[pale bloom]

But with Dryos, he'll yeah go ahead

Even devs made mixpacking with Dryos a thing on Legacy official servers for a reason

[quiet estuary]

It is fine
I doubt the cerato will be able to chase them all effectively and most of the other burrowing animals will escape

[paper oriole]

That is unbalanced, as the burrowing animals now have almost no chance of survival due to two offensively capable species covering eachothers' weaknesses to mass kill

[quiet estuary]

That isnt unbalanced in the context of the burrows having multiple exits and the animals in question not having the capabilities to kill them all for reasons going from speed to stam etc

[paper oriole]

Unless burrows can have multiple well distanced exits the mix pack may still he a death sentence, poor balance

[quiet estuary]

whether they are well distanced or not is to the fault of the burrowers

[paper oriole]

Animals already equipped to kill have no reason to be mix packing unless they are shitty players, which shouldn't be incentivized

[quiet estuary]

Or if they realize that doing something temporarily will give more food

Like if i was in that exact situation for example
ide wait till the idk, herrera scares out all the homalos
kill the homalos i can catch
Then be friendly to the herrera killing him as he eats

[paper oriole]

If burrows can or can not have distanced exits isn't at fault of the burrowers, the fault falls on the idiots mix packing instead of hunting the way their species are designed to

[quiet estuary]

Oh and to add, this is ignoring the fact that the burrowers can possibly defend themselves from the invader as well

[paper oriole]

Most of not all burrowing animals won't be able to defend themselves against a large animal mix packing with a burrow raider

[quiet estuary]

Theres a plethora of scenarios one can go down this route
And I see them all as making the game lead to a more interesting game where more patient players get rewarded

The only burrowing animal I dont see being able to properly defend itself is minmi and dryo

Dryo has other, quite effective means of escape

[paper oriole]

Dryo was a burrower in legacy, it probably won't make burrows in evrima

[quiet estuary]

Then that makes it only minmi

Which has an aquatic burrowing idea going on for it. So i wont comment on it much until I see how that functions

[paper oriole]

The only confirmed burrower in concept art that is. Minmi can't defend against a burrow raider teaming up with a large fast predator

[quiet estuary]

Thats where the entire aquatic idea comes in

From my understanding, which may be wrong
Minmis entire burrowing idea needs to be around water or possibly in it. Most likely on mud banks from a programming standpoint

[paper oriole]

So you think s burrow raider teaming up with a suchomimus to go on a minmi genocide is balanced

[feral solstice]

That sounds like something a strain would do no cap

[glacial quest]

they probably need to remove burrowing from the dryo's description on the roadmap

[quiet estuary]

In a scenario with sucho I think the minmi would escape. As to me personally sucho is a wading animal and wouldnt be able to swim, at least not effectively enough to catch the minmi running about in the deep waters akin to a hippo based on the concept

Also using current rivers as a thought process with this is also a bad idea as they lack any foliage so whether there is a mixpack or not the moment some aquatic creature (who can properly swim) does decide to go after the minmi itll be fucked anyways until there are more effective things to do such as hiding in underwater brush

the entire minmi example really needs to be seen post the addition of actual foliage to rivers and riversides, combined with the existance of more watersources

[paper oriole]

We don't know how fast minmi will swim, we don't know if sucho or bary will be given above average swimming, spino is apparently going to have aquatic capabilities

So being in the know that at least spino is supposed to be able to swim, it could mixpack with a burrow raider to destroy minmi players' day just to be a dick, and this is balanced?

[quiet estuary]

Bary and sucho imho should be just above average swimmers with wading as their main focus less than swimming when it comes to their aquatic side

Spino, along with deino and maybe austro apply to the thing i mentioned with folliage

Also most animals who can burrow invade, are probably too small to deal any decent amount to minmi due to its armor

[tawny juniper]

Literally what use does spino have with minmi, an as I understand it dog sized creature, Other than being a dick

[quiet estuary]

At least from the thought process of any animal who is smaller than the burrower can enter its burrow
which is what i assume is the plan here

[paper oriole]

And on the topic of burrowing animals, assuming taco keeps its burrows, how do you think it would survive a mixpack of velociraptors and ceratosaurus going on a taco genocide?

[quiet estuary]

Well glad you asked

I adore taco as an animal

Always have

[tawny juniper]

Why should sucho be given above average swimming, It's a wader that eats fish, It doesn't swim very often

[paper oriole]

Exactly, players mixpack to go on killing sprees to be dicks, it's the isle

[quiet estuary]

and Ide love it to take the route of the old tsl concept art

where it was a porcupine

Also i think there was an old isle concept with it doing something with its tail quills

but Im not 100% sure on that

[tawny juniper]

your point?

[paper oriole]

So it will get butchered but hey at least it gets to poke the cerato in the face first i guess?

[quiet estuary]

he asked how will taco defend itself from velos

[paper oriole]

Still certain death due to mix packing buffoons

[quiet estuary]

It kills the velos

[tawny juniper]

No herbivore should really be forced to kill to save itself, it should mainly be to ward off attackers

[paper oriole]

No i asked how you think taco players will survive a velo cerato mix pack, since you love mix packing carnis goi on kill sprees so much

[quiet estuary]

Ok

it kills the velos

the cerato isnt going to have tacos come out

since the velos arnet scaring the taco out of the burrow

[paper oriole]

Taco isnt designed to kill

[tawny juniper]

What is the incentive for a cerato

[quiet estuary]

I go on killing sprees as carnis and herbis
I dont mixpack much

[tawny juniper]

it gets like a 20% food meal

Not even

[paper oriole]

To be a dick and have fun

[quiet estuary]

Well if you scroll up earlier in the situation I said that I as a carni would take advantage of a animal scaring otheer creatures out of its burrow and eat them

And we brought it down to the example of

Velos invade taco burrow
with cerato camping outside

[paper oriole]

Taking advantage is different than mix packing

[tawny juniper]

I understand, My question is why would a cerato have any interest in tacos

[quiet estuary]

Its the same thing

[paper oriole]

You defended mix packing carnis

[quiet estuary]

fun

[paper oriole]

No it isnt

[tawny juniper]

Not at all

[quiet estuary]

You are two carnivorous species
killing/attacking the same group of creatures
which will lead to the common end goal of the death of those creatures

how is that not mixpacking

[tawny juniper]

the whole point of this is so that the cerato gets 10 seconds of fun to be a dick, No thank you I'd much rather they spend development time on something actually good

[paper oriole]

Taking advantage is on the moment. Mix packing is purposely working in unison with another animal to achieve a common goal and be friendly with the other person

[quiet estuary]

tell that to mira not me carter

[quiet estuary]

I purosely work in unison
in that moment

[tawny juniper]

And ceratos common end goal is, what? To have 10 seconds of fun killing a taco

[quiet estuary]

Carter that was in response to mira saying it was not mixpacking

and returning back to the taco situation mira as weve slightly gone offtopic there

You again are assuming the burrowing creature has to 100% always
A: leave the entrance the cerato is
B: leave an entrance which isnt covered by some sort of foliage or other form of protective barrier like a low handing rock

[paper oriole]

My point is development shouldn't be wasted on incentivizing nix packing predators rather than punishing them with future systems, i am only pointing out that it is a shitty way to ruin the game for other players and it shouldn't be incentivized

[quiet estuary]

Oh and the whole taco isnt built to kill is where the idea of the "porcupine" from TSL idea and possibly one isle dossier came in

[tawny juniper]

If you find a pack of velos and follow them for when they kill a taco #1 That's a waste of hunger, #2 You don't really gain anything for what you lost in the proccess. If you and a group of velos are just chilling together, and killing tacos that's just being a dick

[quiet estuary]

Yes

[tawny juniper]

Porcupines don't kill their attackers 🤦‍♂️

[quiet estuary]

Kill, defend against etc

Either way

the velos aint killing the taco

[tawny juniper]

There's a difference between Kill and ward off

[quiet estuary]

Also the word porcupine was less
it acts exactly like a porcupine and more its quills function like that of a porcupine

[paper oriole]

The tacos are an example from his earlier comment on mix packing with the goal of mass murdering burrowing animals, it can be applied elsewhere on more impactful dinos, burrowers is just one situation

[quiet estuary]

In the sense of if a pred touches of they get barbed

The situation comes down to

Whether mixpacking is balanced or not
I said its fine if its animals taking advantage of another animal and working together at that time to get the common goal of taking down x thing. I gave the burrowing example akin to that in nature of badgers and foxes

[tawny juniper]

It's a kind of interesting concept but it just doesn't work in execution or reality, Like people don't follow other animals generally to ward them off of prey, They just kill the animal

[paper oriole]

Taking advantage of a situation is different from actually mix packing

[tawny juniper]

^

[quiet estuary]

Well I dont see the difference

AS in that moment, where you are two different species working together
you literally are mixpacking

[paper oriole]

Actively working with and being friendly and sticking with the other person is mix packing. Interrupting another predator's hunt to snag some easy food for yourself is different

[quiet estuary]

Hell the thing being hunted wouldnt even be able to tell the difference

[paper oriole]

Predators should not be friendly and work for eachother to kill other players

[feral solstice]

You can’t just interpret that but ok

[quiet estuary]

You can

Ill give an example which has occured to me in the past

When I am a tenonto i normally deal with utahs who team up with carnos
You cant tell though if
A: the carnos and utahs are in vc together actively tryign to hunt together
or B: the carnos came across these utahs hunting this injured tenonto then help them kill it as the utahs also kill it

Which is why I say

Both situations are mixpacking as they are two species working together to achieve a common goal

[paper oriole]

A carno stealing weakened prey from utahs is different than a carno working with utahs to share food

Sharing food and being friendly is mix packing and should be discouraged among carnis unless it's something as mundane as allowing a ptera have some scraps or dropping a juvie a fish

[cyan flame]

Are you guys still on this? :p

[quiet estuary]

Yes

[paper oriole]

For some reason yep

[quiet estuary]

I am currently on a bus and have nothing better to do lol

[cyan flame]

Alright then, carry on I guess :p

[quiet estuary]

Ok so real quick let us get definitions of mixpacking down as thats the real kicker in the discussion it seems

I currently am saying mixpacking is when two animals work together to do x thing, such as kill a tenonto
the before and after doesnt matter
You are saying mixpakcing only applies if they are buddy buddy afterwards and share the body

Am I getting this clear?

[paper oriole]

Mix packing applies when the predators are benefitting eachother

Rather than one predator taking advantage of anothers work

[quiet estuary]

If you think about it, the utahs benefit from the tenonto being dead, whether or not they do eat it

[cyan flame]

Isn't it the active working together that causes balance issues, and why it's frowned upon to mix. Because of the whole covering weaknesses in ways you're not meant to.

[paper oriole]

Not really, it is a slower animal that can be avoided

[quiet estuary]

I mean if you wish to be in a specific area it can be an issue

[paper oriole]

And yes, actively working together causes balance issues, simply taking advantage for your own needs is different

[quiet estuary]

Ok mira wait

Is it mixpackign when the utahs and the carnos both, at the exact same time are killing the teno
but after the carnos only eat the body

They are being completely buddy buddy and both taking shots at the teno

but in the end carnos eat it and not utahs

[paper oriole]

If the utahs and carnos are mutually working together to cover weaknesses and kill things, being friendly to eachother, it disrupts balance

If a carno happens to spot some utahs killing a tenonto, rushes in and finishes the job to steal the kill for itself and is not friendly with the utahs (willing to kill them) it is taking advantage

[quiet estuary]

yes but what if its both
They are friendly mid fight but as soon as it ends they fight

As this is where the major misunderstanding I think is comign from

[paper oriole]

If it is an ongoing partnership it is also mix packing

[quiet estuary]

I think we arent really seeing the same scene here which is whats possibly causing such confusion

[feral solstice]

That’s still mix packing
If they’re teaming up to kill said creature, that disrupts balance and hunts, doesn’t matter if they fight afterwards

[glacial quest]

lol

[paper oriole]

This conversation is lowkey making me die inside

[quiet estuary]

Exactly
So I think that is fine in small and temporary solutions

Why

[glacial quest]

so if you're playing a carnivore, and you come across a fight, you're expected to just sit on your tiny hands?

that's poggers

[paper oriole]

It's a bug loop

Bo you should take advantage nothin is stopping you right

[feral solstice]

Taking advantage of a fight and teaming up to kill a creature is different

[paper oriole]

But actively working together and being all OWO buddy fuzzy with other predators to go on kill sprees is toxic as fuck and should not be a thing

[quiet estuary]

What else do you consider toxic

Just curious

[paper oriole]

If you are a cerato and see some troodons harassing a tenonto, rushing in and taking the prize for yourself while giving a middle finger to the unsuspecting troodons is not mix pacning

It is perfectly fine

[glacial quest]

that's a fact

[quiet estuary]

Yes

we agree there

[glacial quest]

i think it can be brought down to whether they share the meal, essentially

[paper oriole]

What i consider toxic is countering balance to sentence other players to death like using two carnivores who cover eachothers' weaknesses to hunt together and kill things neither should have an easy time with. Same goes for a tenonto and a diablo working together to harass some allo they found while their trike buddy catches up to kebab it

[quiet estuary]

yes

if they share the meal thats where i say no

As generally carnivorous animals yaknow
Dont do that much unless its a corpse 10x their size

[paper oriole]

It is all situational

[cyan flame]

@quiet estuaryI'll give you an example. I was a para, back in the day when para was good. I was hunted by a rex (that I could have easily escaped by running), and two carnos that acted as the rex hounds, biting my ass if I tried to run, and just circled me if I tried to fight them (which I could have done), so the rex could catch up to kill me.

[paper oriole]

Exactly this ^

[cyan flame]

That's the sort of situations that is an issue with mixing, where balance is thrown out. None of my escape methods worked because of the team work.

Only carnos = I would have fought. Only rex = I would have ran away.

[quiet estuary]

Ok so lets look at that situation from the carnivores perspective

What if the carnos werent actually trying to help the rex
But instead they wnated to try to kill you before the rex got there so they could get a few scraps and leave before the rex could steal you from them

[glacial quest]

that's what i'm thinking

[quiet estuary]

This is why this topic is so hard to determine imo
As the players minds arent always so easy to predict
now ofc what i said may not be what occured in your situation but its just an example

[cyan flame]

See, that's a reasoning, but the problem is, the reasoning doesn't matter. The actions and result does. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. But they wouldn't have gotten food, because the rex was close enough to just get them.

Since they kept me from running. If they had just followed me, then it could have worked. But that would have demanded them back off and let me believe I could run away and escape that way.

Only for the carno pair to then jump me.

And even so, you get the balance problem, no matter why they might have wanted to do it. It would be better if it just wasn't viable, and both carno and rex could survive just fine on their own.

[quiet estuary]

Well Im not sayign that the carnos shouldnt be able to survive on their own

or the opposite

Obviously if an animal requires to mixpack to survive that would be horrible even for isles standard of balancing

[cyan flame]

Heh.. you'd be surprised what people think at times :p

[quiet estuary]

Yes

people can be quite moronic on ocassion

[cyan flame]

But no, I get you. I just use it as a good example of how balance just get shat on. And the problem comes down to me not having any way out.

No matter what I did there, I would die, and that might be fine if that was a very special circumstance

But normally it wasn't, it was rather standard for slower things to have faster things act as their bloodhounds, both carni and herbi

[quiet estuary]

I would also like to mention that the scenario there may also have had a bit of issue with old carno as I dont think carno should really be able to hunt paras properly

but alas

[cyan flame]

True, carno was very good at para hunting :p But still

[pale bloom]

If someone really dislikes those situations might need to try out heavy ruled servers, but trust me you will be ripping your eyes off after a while

[cyan flame]

They just had to bite my tail + keep me from running mostly. Not really that demanding, though with locational it would be way harder obviously, so that might have made a difference.

[quiet estuary]

ruled servers lmao

[cyan flame]

I'd really rather not, better to have mechanics in place

[quiet estuary]

^

Mechanics will never stop these scenarios btw

Unescapeable things will always exist

[cyan flame]

Nah, not stopping, but mitigating

Is the goal

[pale bloom]

^^

[quiet estuary]

It will lower yes

And I agree with lowering it

[cyan flame]

You can't stop someone from making friends with you, spending hours to be nice, only to kill you 5 seconds from safelogging because "haha, toxic fun" :p

[quiet estuary]

My personal view is that these situations occuring on ocassion at rare instances would be fine

[cyan flame]

But you can maybe make it a less than optimal decision to do, so most don't do shit like that :p

[quiet estuary]

At least more the kill the same target and less the eat corpse and erp in global after thing

[cyan flame]

@quiet estuaryYou're not wrong, there's been situations where I've wanted to target something as a rex in hiding, but worried that the thing I wanted to target would accuse me of mixing with the thing they were chasing, despite it being more reasonable for me to get the giga hunting the para, than the para. Since giga is more of a threat, just as good food, and all that.

So it's.. not always clear cut what should or should not be allowable

[quiet estuary]

I think nothing should never not be allowed
Nor nothing should ever be completely easily allowed

Everything should be more dependant on the scenario the player finds themselves in

which is always why i liked these sorts of

"If i kill this thing rn I get to eat it right away, but if let it live or help it ill be able to get more food down the line" situations

[pale bloom]

The whole concept of "Survival game" leads to the most unexpected scenarios, yes there should be ingame ways to avoid them or maybe just make them less common, but toxic stuff in games like this will always happen

[quiet estuary]

I never liked the word toxic in topics involving survival games

As I dont think anything really outside of cheating or using some exploit can really be considered toxic
Everything outside of this scenarios generally have things you can do to avoid them even if they do come at you being anxious or bored. But thats where the entire "hey yea im a bit bored so im going to risk my life to have a bit of fun" comes in that every survival game has

But anyways, Imma head off for now, been fun

Cya at another time

[pale bloom]

Cya!

[swift dew]

"I mean this as hate"

way to get people to listen to you

[glacial quest]

not sure if it's a joke or not lol

[paper oriole]

Classy as ever, Class

Don't think he's joking, this is the same guy who unironically wanted mercs giving birth and human children taming raptors with food

[swift dew]

this is definitly not a joke, this is a class thing

[paper oriole]

Class is a very odd guy

[glacial quest]

that's wild

[crude girder]

Imagine forcing players to be weak periodically instead of making your weakness a direct result of your own actions

[paper oriole]

Sounds miserable, yes

[turbid mauve]

that's what nature does

[paper oriole]

Nature does a lot of things that shouldnt be in a video game

[turbid mauve]

herbivores have advantages, just as they have disadvantages

[turbid mauve]

alright, ima say life does that. jesus christ this kid

[crude girder]

Nature also has you die of sicknesses that you contract, seemingly at random. In additional you could get struck by lightning and just die because the game decided you should die. Would you enjoy just flopping over dead after 5 hours?

[turbid mauve]

life for carnis shouldn't be dandy, cause in real life it ain't

[paper oriole]

In nature you can be permanently blinded or have your organs spilled out and die a slow and agonizing death with no way to save yourself, should this also be in game?

[crude girder]

You make 0 mistakes and play perfectly, game says fuck you and you die

[glacial quest]

the primary benefit of herbi over carni (in this game, from my own limited experience) is that their food source is reliable 😅

[crude girder]

Likewise, the Herbivore benefit is already that starving isn't a concern, with the drawback being more intensive diets

[turbid mauve]

Bad analogy, sicknesses can be avoided and prevented. Also with the getting struck by lighting sort of thing.

[crude girder]

That was an Herbivore player can actually follow their diet, or suffer the consequences of ignoring it instead of RNG saying that they are now weak for X amount of time

[crude girder]

So you want a system that you have no control over to nerf you randomly?

[paper oriole]

I never said carnis should have it easy, I agree they should have it hard, but being forced into a weak state during a time will just be like legacy nights where people log and move servers until it passes

[turbid mauve]

Bad analogy, this can be prevented and avoided. As for genetics well, don't breed with subjects whose genes are weak.

[crude girder]

Because if you cannot do anything to prevent it, then it's literally RNG saying "fuck you"

which is a bad system to put in a game where death means several hours of time wasted, because you logged into the server at the wrong time

[paper oriole]

What do genes have to do with dry seasons making you weak and vulnerable at no fault of your own?

[crude girder]

on top of that, why wouldn't I, an herbivore, just log out

Diets are permanent and force you to do something, or get nerfed. A dry season nerf would mean I just log out until its over, like night in Legacy if you aren't a Dilo

[turbid mauve]

I was responding to blindness you mentioned that occurs in nature whether due to abiotic factors or biotic factors, dude, are you blind?

[crude girder]

Remember you want people to play the game, not just go hurr durr realism

[paper oriole]

By blindness i meant by injury

Or malnutrition

It happens in nature, just like droughts

[crude girder]

Cancer also happens at random, there are things you can do to decrease the odds, but it still just happens sometimes

[turbid mauve]

Its a challenge for herbivores, the struggle is real, so what, what is you're point? So is for carnivores every single goddam day. Give them a break.

[paper oriole]

Sometimes a lightning strike hits an animal and they die at no fault of their own, should the isle do this?

[crude girder]

My point is, why would an Herbivore player want to play during a drought? Why would you not want to just log out?

What is the purpose of a mechanic that actively discourages you from playing?

[paper oriole]

Carnis dont need any breaks aside from finding an abandoned body from time to time

[turbid mauve]

Then let them log out, I don't care. A.I. needs to come around already.

[crude girder]

Ai won't be free food just so you know, and Carnivores have it harder by choice

[limber hull]

yes, humans have discovered how to prevent several sicknesses, but i doubt dinosaurs have really delved deep into the field of medicine

[paper oriole]

They don't need breaks at the expense of the other faction, especially with that faction already being the less played one

[crude girder]

The players picked a class that is generally better suited to attack, at the cost of defense and PVE elements

[turbid mauve]

Elaborate on what you mean by choice.

[paper oriole]

They chose to play carnivore

[limber hull]

you choose carnivore when booting up

[crude girder]

You picked carnivore knowing what it meant. If you wanted an easier survival experience more about PVE (what you seem to think AI will bring), pick herbivore.

[paper oriole]

The point of playing carni is the challenge of PvP

[turbid mauve]

That's where you're wrong, you see, nature allows only the fittest to pass down their genes, whereas us nimble humans have to resort to our vaccines to fix our errors.

[crude girder]

This is why wild animals never get sick, duh /s

[limber hull]

im sorry but we are not having a vaccination argument in the feedback discussion channel of dinosaur game lmao

[turbid mauve]

Still don't understand what you mean.

And what you're trying to say.

[turbid mauve]

Wasn't having an argument, I was pointing out a fact. Reread what I said.

[crude girder]

Carnivore players are built around seeking out and attacking other players. This is inherently the harder gameplay because you can't make sure other players are around.

Herbivore players are built around seeking out a varied diet of foliage. This is inherently the easier gameplay because there is always going to be food, and you can graze.

If you pick Carnivore, you picked hard mode

[paper oriole]

They picked the faction that is intended to be a challenging PvP experience, that is a choice

[worn pumice]

what am i missing today

[crude girder]

If you want a break, play Herbivore

[limber hull]

also im still not a massive fan of AI tbh

[crude girder]

This doesn't mean Herbivores will roll over for Carnivores either, as that's part of the challenge

[paper oriole]

Save yoirself, leave while you can, Lion, it is a class conversation

[crude girder]

After all, most Carnivore hunts today fail, because Carnivores have it rough

[paper oriole]

Save your brain cells

[worn pumice]

ight cheers mate

[turbid mauve]

Grazing won't be viable, due to the constraints of maintaining variety in diet or the person will receive debuffs.

[crude girder]

True, but you'll never outright die from starvation as an herbivore, something Carnivores have to constantly worry about.

Like you will be nerfed if you only graze, but grazing will save you from death by starvation in a pinch

[turbid mauve]

You don't understand.

[feral solstice]

You really shouldn’t outright die of starvation like original evrima lmao

[crude girder]

Yeah uh, please elaborate on what I don't understand?

[turbid mauve]

The game is not balanced at all.

[crude girder]

Because to me it sounds like you wanted Carnivore gameplay to be easier, either through AI snacks, or by nerfing Herbivores

[turbid mauve]

What do you mean either through AI snacks?

[feral solstice]

And most of what you say isn’t balanced either, mr. stego should insta die from a headshot

[crude girder]

Legacy-esque AI that just screams and waits for you to eat it

Ai in Evrima should be able to run or fight just as well as a player, Carnivores should never have an easy source of food

[feral solstice]

^

[crude girder]

Otherwise it totally unbalances the ecosystem

[feral solstice]

It doesn’t just unbalance it

It breaks the ecosystem Hard

[hallow vigil]

seasons would be cool but take such a long time and a lot of resources to implement i imagine. Also, playing during a dry season does not sound like fun lol

[feral solstice]

Talk about major chaos

[turbid mauve]

The ecosystem is completely unbalanced anyways, there are not enough herbivores to sustain the carnivores. In life herbivores outnumber carnivores 10 to 1.

[paper oriole]

Imagine being a deino in dry season lol

[tepid gate]

The ecosystem will never be balanced by the players

[mossy horizon]

The Isle is built off of player vs player interaction as well, having too much A.I. wouldnt be as thrilling

[crude girder]

So your solution is... nerf the Herbivores more?

[icy lion]

you have to make droughts function without making them force a chunk of the playerbase to log out due to how unfun they are

[limber hull]

Evirmia AI does the exact same thing lmao atm

[crude girder]

shut lol

[turbid mauve]

This is a survival game, people like a challenge, or do you not know the game you signed up for?

[worn pumice]

i mean atleast the dryo ai will actually run

[limber hull]

look at the dryo AI and tell me it does anything besides scream and wait to get killed

[worn pumice]

most of the times atleast

[feral solstice]

So you’re saying the game is unbalanced because players prefer to play carnivores over herbivores, making there be less herbis?

Bs

[paper oriole]

Even if you removed the dryo AI right now, servers would still be 80% carni players, they do not need any easy food

[icy lion]

cant scream if you dont exist

[limber hull]

it literally sits there and waits for people to catch up

[icy lion]

hard is very different from unfun

[crude girder]

A challenge =/= RNG says fuck you

[tepid gate]

Also I don't think that's a very fair assertion to make - yes playing herbivores is much, much easier as it is(and very likely always will be) but that doesn't mean we should strive to make playing carnivores harder by default as some sort of a challenge.

[icy lion]

you can make something tear-your-hair-out difficult and still have it be enjoyable

[feral solstice]

I don’t remember The Isle ever being a 100% accurate to nature game, bud

[icy lion]

rng "oh herbivores now suck lmao" is not fun nor hard

[crude girder]

You can do something about a challenge, droughts nerfing you because "Oh man gotta make the Carnivores have an easy time" just means Herbivores will not play during droughts

like how in BOB most people log out during extinction floods

[turbid mauve]

How would there being more herbivores be easier for carnivores? Please explain.

[icy lion]

more food to hunt

[feral solstice]

^

[icy lion]

especially if theyre ai

[tepid gate]

Not necessarily

[feral solstice]

It’s literally self explanatory lmao

[tepid gate]

Carnivores can hunt other carnivores just fine

[paper oriole]

How would forcing herbis to be weak during some rng drought make there be more herbis?

[icy lion]

no matter how good the ai is, there will always be a difference between it and players

[crude girder]

Plus if there are more herbivores, the herbivores are going to compete more, especially with diets breaking up the herds

[icy lion]

that too

[worn pumice]

honestly no matter what theres just going to be more carnis then herbis

[icy lion]

but class seems to want the world to be populated mainly by ai herbivores

[tepid gate]

If herbivores got deleted from the game outright I probably wouldn't even bat an eye tbh.

[crude girder]

It'd be like early progression

Austros... Austros everywhere

[tepid gate]

For the most part I wouldn't even notice most likely

[feral solstice]

I think all you can really do is narrow it down to half and half, other than that, it’s a stretch

[paper oriole]

Instead of fixing herbi gameplay to make them a bit more appealing, just add a shitload of AI and nerf herbis when it gets dry out so carnis can have a BBQ- the Class solution

[worn pumice]

half and half is being generous tbh

[crude girder]

Also in general for survival games, RNG bad

just as a constant, rule, if you can do nothing about a mechanic, it's unfun

How would a Herbivore keep themselves from being nerfed during a drought, without making the mechanic pointless to add in the first place?

[worn pumice]

legacy rex bone break

[crude girder]

Legacy

[worn pumice]

[feral solstice]

Like I always say

Evrima is the new legacy

[turbid mauve]

there is no immersion of life in what y'all are talking about like jesus christ. fine enjoy the game being a waste land and having players like me rage quit because i dont see anyone within 5 mins of the game. how about that? cash me out side how bout dat:/

im fcking done.

[crude girder]

Damn, imagine thinking every 5 minutes there should be a player

[paper oriole]

[icy lion]

what?

[tepid gate]

Idk how droughts would help you see people more often

[feral solstice]

I wouldn’t mind you rage quit tbh

[crude girder]

"I've been in the forest for 3 minutes and I haven't seen a single bear yet WTF?"

[icy lion]

droughts would remove players lol

[mossy horizon]

This

[worn pumice]

what r u rage quitting for lmao

[turbid mauve]

there are people who rage quit in a hour, day, or two days

[paper oriole]

Might help you see corpses more often but most people would just log out to not have their time wasted

[crude girder]

Also I love the logic here: "Not enough players... I'll add a mechanic that makes there be even less players!"

[icy lion]

if you make droughts nerf herbis by default (which is what i understood from the suggestion) then say goodbye to all herbis whenever one happens

[turbid mauve]

less foilage, carnis can tract where they're headed etc

[crude girder]

Promotions are in order!

[crude girder]

Diets literally do this but not RNG