Aight
#general-feedback-discussion
leaden night
oblique dust
agreed, a radar ability seems like a good fit for para.
but what should it be, that's the real question.
stoic wing
So does rex have a planned ability?
barren zephyr
yea
oblique dust
since we're on the topic of new dino additions and gimmicks.
what if we took shant
threw it out the window because it's a balance nightmare.
and replaced it with
camara.
candid fiber
@barren zephyr You do realize bleed is incredibly effective at the moment?
barren zephyr
i mean dilo can be facetanked by utah and live if utah sits straight after dilo dies
candid fiber
That's why you don't facetank as a bleeder.
barren zephyr
but utah also outturns and outruns dilo
candid fiber
Not for long if it's bleeding.
Before Herrera was buffed there was a similar interaction between it and Dryo. Dryo would beat you up when facetanking but Herrera would win "jousting".
Sure that's about abusing collision, but it should still work with Dilo.
If anything that's an issue with Dilo and not one with bleed. Maybe the venom could work more quickly?
verbal acorn
You gotta boom & zoom with bleed. Bite and bounce. Make him come after you or remain a stationary target for more bleed. But if he pushes the fight, good luck. That’s why I don’t choose fair fights. Even if you win, it might not be worth it.
limpid dove
@north vector they had injections, "injections" of quetz last night. another thing to make quetz balanced is 3-4 hour growth time, to prevent people from growing them. not only that but due to being air scouts, people could easily target than. 2.5hr for juvie stage and 1.5hr for the adult stage sounds fair to me.
them*
limpid dove
it wouldnt really prevent people from growing them but make it harder to do so
#thenyaw-screenshots has a video of them
cat bug was getting attacked by them
north vector
I saw!!!
limpid dove
crazeeeee
north vector
Super jealous rn
limpid dove
right?
north vector
I’ll sign up 1000% to be injected
stoic wing
what
stoic wing
How do they choose the injections anyway?
north vector
^
limpid dove
theeeenn the testers nest in the randoms
brisk mesa
Couch, the problem with that solution is that it does not hinder the ability to raise a quetz
You act like packs wont protect their scouts.
Offer them somewhere safe to land.
All your solution does
is punish anyone not being a scout for a pack.
north vector
I made it so they are not efficient to function as scouts
brisk mesa
Erm
north vector
Thats a super specific scenerio
brisk mesa
You ONLY need to fly high enough to not be bitten. So long as you are out of reach you are a viable scout
WTH thats not a specific scenario
Its called yeah home fucking base.
north vector
I honestly cant think of anything to counter that behavior
brisk mesa
Your ideas have both been suggested before.
Oh I did.
See my solution...
is to cripple them in several ways that ONLY punish abusers.
a) any effects to affinity, like the stat changes, would apply much more strongly on Quetz. This means if you try to carebare them
You cripple them
Congratz you have ruined your scout by protecting it from juvi to adult.
north vector
Thats pretty good
nova shell
i can see a loophole in a
brisk mesa
Also has like, fat chance in hell of making it to an adult
dondi, my idea had 4 steps
nova shell
continue
brisk mesa
you probably see a loophole fixed by the others
nova shell
understandable
brisk mesa
So your Juvi Quetz that is shitfucked because it spawns, like any other dino, randomly someplace but has to live off tacos and oros in Narnia, and if anything stays near it too long its dead? It cannot even go to join your megapack afterwards, because if it gets bad affinity - especially problematic for someone who previously was a member of a megapack - you suddenly fuck your stamina and you need more food for a dinosaur that basically relies on scavenging.
north vector
With vision blur at high altitude you would be a very bad scout anyway. The shitty players would waste their time raising a quetz
brisk mesa
The third part of my solution...
Was making 2 types of movement during flight.
The first is a slow one, at a lower stamina cost, that you can scent from. However, your altitude is actively dropping. If you try to do this 'glide / drone around' from a low altitutude not only will everything see you but you'll burn your stamina doing that bc if you crash, ofc, you die.
The second one could be easily considered the sprint, however, while faster and having no drop, the stamina cost is higher and your vision is blurred.
Therefore, the onle you can safely use at low altitude
that is faster?
sucks to scout with.
The one that is like a 'uav' sucks to scout with
bc its only safe at high altitude
and you move slowly while doing so.
north vector
Doesn’t exactly stop a quetz in some discord chat raising them self some where away from the pack. And telling them stuff from a distance
brisk mesa
The final nail in scout quetz, along with giving them an actual survival challenge - ontop of the most hardcore growth
yeah I'm aware
I adressed that
nova shell
what i was thinking cerch
brisk mesa
Mhm I'd referenced that in my post.
Thing is, picture being the horrible hybrid of a Juvi Giga and a Juvi Carno
For roughly an hour.
Slow
Obvious
Needy
Helpless
Growing up and trying to then coordinate latter on?
Thats an unreliable scout.
north vector
Also the super bad affinity could be used by trolls to mess with Quetzs trying to eat, following them around
brisk mesa
Its inferior to a Dryo.
icy venture
make it plasma pink for its whole juvi cycle, unable to fly. 
brisk mesa
Inferior to a Galli.
nova shell
i dont see that being a problem cerch
icy venture
@north vector can't you just fly up and then glide away?
brisk mesa
The last nail I put in its coffin as a cancer scout, its really simple; absolute liquid ass night vision
Flying at night
would be suicide.
This both makes legit players fear something
while being quetz
north vector
Yeah but then you dont get to eat because player some was walking around 20 feet away
brisk mesa
And makes your scout even worse than a dryo / galli
nova shell
so
icy venture
then... that's your fault for picking a scavenger? lol @north vector
nova shell
u got a solution to the quetz living far away from its pack and still scouting for them?
north vector
brisk mesa
Yes, as I mentioned its simple; your viability as a scout isnt worth it.
A scout MUST be reliable
You never invest in an unreliable scout
If a Juvi Quetz
has at best a 1/10 to make it to adulthood
Why would you ever, as a group, depend on that?
You cannot increase those odds
bc you cannot even hide with that obvious
slow
weak shit
And you cannot increase it by giving it bodyguards
north vector
I feel like juvi quetz should have a very limited flight capability, several feet to flutter around a bit. Nothing crazy but enough to be able to escape a juvie
brisk mesa
Nah my whole point of my idea was to make it a tangible stopgap.
Now
TBF
I did muse the idea
that it couldnt take flight by launching
but if it tosses itself off a cliff
well
nova shell
stick to being up high in the hills/mtns, something comes for you, just glide away
brisk mesa
if it doesnt splat before it hits the ground it could fly
/ glide
It just cannot take off.
wintry cipher
one flaw is that they can just get two quetz and have those nest in the scouts. but if quetz takes 4+ hours to grow it might not be worth it
brisk mesa
A juvi Quetz near a lake would be helpless
north vector
I like the idea of having to get a running start first if on level terrain
As adult
nova shell
^
brisk mesa
Quetz's actual niche is meant to be a flyer
All that is supposed to be done
is limit it as a scout
north vector
A running start doesnt hinder this though
north vector
IRL quetz could launch pad?
brisk mesa
Yeah
nova shell
yes
brisk mesa
They could
nova shell
like a bat
brisk mesa
Its really awesome to think of.
nova shell
just jump up and glide off
brisk mesa
200 kilo bat
north vector
well dang
brisk mesa
from hell
nova shell
would be crazy to watch something as tall as a giraffe do that
north vector
That works too i guess but from a balanced perspective it needs to be vulnerable on the ground
brisk mesa
Yeah...
hence my mention of night vision lol.
If you crash while flying
you die.
So at night
YOU MUST BE LANDED
or you will die.
You still need to eat too.
And drink
Like any creature.
idle needle
Or just stay on the wing all night
brisk mesa
and die.
north vector
Yeah but any player who is able to raise a quetz to adulthood wont be stupid enough to crash themselves
dreamy wharf
It’s not that hard to tell, Watt.
north vector
So making quetz almost exclusively diurnal
nova shell
i would wanna make it so quetz has to drink at night but not eat
brisk mesa
Also, staying on the wings all night likely isnt feasible with stamina and food costs
and thirst as well.
nova shell
otherwise legitimate players would not have fun
north vector
Would gliding take stam then?
idle needle
If they made it so that quetz has to dive to gain altitude, quetz would be pretty limited to landing only on high places, and if they landed in a valley they'd have to walk up somewhere high to get going in the air again
brisk mesa
I mentioned no mode of flight would be free.
north vector
That would really limit the quetz though
brisk mesa
Monocle, that would just be unfun to play.
The only thing
that matters
in the dev's eyes
is not making it a cancer scout
north vector
^^^
idle needle
Yeah
brisk mesa
My solution posted a week or so ago
north vector
Kinda wish i saw the full thing lol
brisk mesa
remedies all the scout issues, by making it a worse scout than galli / utah / dryo
north vector
Very well thought out
idle needle
How so?
brisk mesa
It was posted last friday
idle needle
I'll look it up
brisk mesa
read it if ya like
The thing that makes me so cocky about that idea
is that devs reacted to it, and not in a bad way
:)
idle needle
I already looked it up with the search and read it
Discord's search feature is fantastic.
brisk mesa
ikr
north vector
@brisk mesa how did the devs react?
north vector
Nice
idle needle
Damage resetting the safelog timer would be gamebreaking.
You could keep your friends online by just hitting them whenever they tried to log off.
You could literally hold people's characters ransom
shut gale
you call that friends?
nova shell
^
idle needle
You call that a mechanic?
nova shell
yes lol
idle needle
Just, it's not a good idea.
nova shell
why would your friends do that
they would kill you eventually
which is the point
logging off in an unsafe area should be punished
idle needle
I'm not gonna argue this any further. It's just not a good idea in my opinion.
nova shell
understandable
shut gale
if you get held in game cause a utah is nibling on you. its your fault. Alt turn is on....
he has to take a risk to go in not knowing if ur baiting or not
nova shell
you wouldnt be logged out yet lol
gleaming holly
I read the quetz suggestion as well. Interesting and well thought out.
shut gale
^ @nova shell < what he said
arctic nexus
Any reasoning for the meh?
next nexus
Not a fan of the lock on idea, it just reads and feels like a crutch mechanic. Plus it really hinders prey animals chances of confusion within a herd and juking capabilities.
The amount of work to get this mechanic to work really doesn't seem worth it either when effective callouts and coordination do the job and are one of the very few already established "skillful" things a group can do together currently in game.
And tbh, you're ambushing, you should be focusing on the thing you're running down anyway? It just seems to help the really bad hunters out there and only them really
brisk mesa
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have nothing really of value to add to that tbh.
viral creek
It's not needed for carnivores, and it's a huge hindrance to those being chased, since there are many animals that rely on juking, confusion or hiding to lose a predator. It's your job as a predator to keep track of your prey, and know who you're chasing.
arctic nexus
Ay, all valid points.
fading herald
is dondi going to stream today?
sweet oasis
@fading herald Wrong channel?
limpid dove
@wild rose kind of already exists, but i see what you mean. would look nicer for a river to run through a forest rather than out in the open with a lack of trees
wild rose
mhm they also seem too shallow
limpid dove
in some parts i can hide completely under the water as a mid-tier dilo or utah, and as something bigger like an allo i can just lay down and be completely hidden
but they arent swimmable. give me river currents : O
@barren zephyr i dont see paras an issue with speed as dilo. at night, they dont see anything: if it chases you down, one headbutt is 3rd screen but you dont die, all you need to do is juke and run through a bunch of trees. dilos heal is also phenomenal. ive killed many paras through bleed as a dilo and only died once to one
dilo is night hunter so dont hunt during the day, do it at night where you see dondi himself from the skies above, rather than during the day where everything sees you
barren zephyr
i wasnt hunti during the day
i was sitting down
in the forest
hidin
and this boi comes over and smaks me
limpid dove
how did you not see or hear it-
next nexus
and you failed to lose it in the dense forest?
next nexus
better luck next time
barren zephyr
also dont help that am purple
limpid dove
@nova shell head tracking exists- an oro every now and then will look back at you if youre hunting it down, same with taco and velo. it might not look at you walking around, but when you're running after it, it's head will look back into your direction to simulate it looking right at you.
overall a good ai suggestion. absolutely love the first portion.
jovial arch
head tracking can be pretty wonky at times though
pale prairie
@waxen verge what's your suggestion?
tawdry sentinel
@hoary ocean Exactly
Im not even new to the isle been playing it for 2 years now and maybe a year on official and didnt know there was rules as i constantly see mixed packs, mega packs and kosing which i knew kosing was fine but still.
warped harbor
There's a message of the day setting.......
People just don't use it
It pops up when you join a server
blazing charm
@barren zephyr They already do that.
delicate mango
blazing charm
Edited it, to properly credit who made the gif.
leaden night
Digging Tacos have made me open up to seeing the lil fellows being playable so I'd enjoy Velo
Also the feeding frenzy mechanic is pretty cool
Would also love to see Velo use former Taco dens as homes as well
blazing charm
I was considering talking about that, but we really don't have any major info about the taco burrows
still temple
imo velos shouldn't be able to make burrows/dens of their own
but have to raid occupied burrows/dens from other burrowing dinos
and maybe give Velo some sort of pounce as well
but it honestly boils down to what happens to our current "Utahraptor".
If it is being tweaked to become deinonychus, then ppl might find velo redundant.
could definitely see previously AI exclusive dinos be playable near/post 1.0 tho
jovial arch
@blazing charm I see a problem with the idea and have some questions.
Problems:
- what’s to stop people from simply summoning a horde of velo ai for their Utah/Dilo friend to eat?
Questions:
-Would you want to change velo stats to actually take damage and deal damage?
-if you changed velo speed to be able to catch things like dryo, would ai velo get those speeds as well? Or would velo ai as they are rn be scrapped?
-how would velo pack hunting even work? Packing hunting with real players can be pretty kamikaze. Wouldn’t your summoned velos usually just die after attacking? And wouldn’t it be really easy to grief people by summoning a horde of velos next to a nest?
stoic wing
Yeah this suggestion seems kinda problematic if you ask me. too many ways to exploit the velo horde.
zenith ledge
relying on ai is also a recipe for a bad player experience
barren zephyr
yea
also
it just takes one velo to die and the entire horde is usless
you said they search for food
stoic wing
how about a mechanic where the more velos there are the more your damage gets multiplied.
compact coyote
@jovial arch velo was said to be getting buffed to better combat juvies
blazing charm
Apologies for the delayed response.
The only real solution I can give for the farming problem would be to lower the food value of Velos for larger creatures. I've added that to the document.
As for Velociraptor stats, not entirely sure. I mostly tried to take the current state of Velo into account for the mechanic, but I suppose a very tiny increase in stats wouldn't hurt.
As for how they would hunt, the mechanic would not work at all with current AI and combat. I'm aware of that. I'd imagine the AI Velocirapators trying to do hit and runs or trying to latch onto the sides of prey. But that all depends on how complicated AI will be later on.
As for the issue of "relying" on the horde, that's not the point. Using the Swarm is a very risky move, it's something that can easily backfire if used incorrectly, I also stated in the suggestion document that the Frenzy mechanic is optional. You don't need to use it.
The reason I suggested having the horde focus on food is to prevent the horde to be used for ramapages. Just because one Velociraptor dies that does not mean ALL the AI have to drop what they are doing, not to mention if the Affinity System is a thing, Cannibalism would probably be avoided, or at the very least be rare.
Also sorry for the wall of text.
jovial arch
I guess it could be a possibility way down the road
stoic wing
i feel like there are simpler ways of making velo playable
blazing charm
There might be, this was just my take on it.
I'm merely bringing the possibility onto the table, if anyone feels like they can come up with something even better I'd honestly love to hear it.
stoic wing
Also would be kinda wierd to see velos just suddenly pop in from nowhere
blazing charm
I'd imagine they could spawn from bushes, behind cover or maybe even from "burrows"
Give it the feeling that they are being drawn in from the undergrowth, y'know?
stoic wing
zombie raptors lol
blazing charm
Was thinking more like, rats coming out of the woodworks, but that works too.
stoic wing
also wouldnt it be too similar to deiny anyway?
i mean they would hunt the same prey kinda
blazing charm
True, and I'm aware that both documents I made contradict each other, that's because there's no garuntee either will get in.
stoic wing
true that
i would much rather have deiny since velo doesnt really look good in game if you ask me
blazing charm
Fair enough, I can respect that.
stoic wing
I would much prefer small raptors with feathers
blazing charm
I mean, if Deinonychuys were to get in, you do realise it's probably gonna be scaly first
Since that whole "feather system" probably ain't gonna happen
stoic wing
yeah i figured
unborn quail
'Awesome bros first, Feather bois later' - Don 2k18
stoic wing
but i mean some dinos could be exceptions to that whole feather/scale system like Theri would just look atrocious without feathers.
compact coyote
thats why theri isnt on the "survival to do" list
spiral turret
What is this whole feather system?
blazing charm
EVEN THOUGH IT SHOULD BE.
compact coyote
^
stoic wing
yeah but it might be an npc
compact coyote
theri? why would it be
blazing charm
Well, it currently exists as an old model that does not match the quality of the other models.
stoic wing
i see potential in all the old models except alberto. That monstrosity can go to hell where it came from.
clever leaf
and shant
compact coyote
i think alberto can be fixed with some flex tape
stoic wing
not even flex tape can fix alberto
blazing charm
Honestly might try and find a way to fix Alberto
Just because
I like trying to find ways to fix the stuff that no one wants to try and fix.
stoic wing
Torvosaurus pls
blazing charm
As much as that is memed to absolute death.
I'm sure there's some way to make it work
But
It'd be a huge stretch
and honestly
this far into the game's development
We don't need THAAAT many carnivores
stoic wing
Its not memed its just that people are salty
stoic wing
or perhaps maybe i am
blazing charm
Believe me.
topaz epoch
@barren zephyr There's very, very little chance of Alberto ever actually needing those features added, as the dinosaur's inclusion was only an experiment for animation retargeting. I'm not saying it's impossible, but try to understand that even by the standards of sandbox dinosaurs, Alberto is pretty low priority
barren zephyr
I understand that, but I know people who love it, as much as I do. Kinda figured they would finally get something
brisk mesa
@blazing charm Honestly that niche seems better suited for the most 'komodo dragon' like playable, Herrerasaurus.
Also it can be handled far more simply in execution;
Bleeding targets become options for the swarm's aggro.
So, friendly fire naturally happens... and uh....
It's gonna be a bad time if you get friendly fired.
And if people simply spammed a swarm of Herreras, they would just cause a bloodbath and risk their own lives.
So the greatest risk, rather than the factors being limited by the number of players / calls, is if you bring too many cannibalistic dinosaurs in one spot, you might die.
That could make the ability also serve a defensive, last-resort, final gambit type utility.
Get cornered by a Utah as a Herrera? Call up a feeding frenzy, a diversion which might just kill you as collateral but is your final gambit.
AFAIK, nothing will end up preventing cannibalism in AI, so the drawback sould simply be, while they will stop the frenzy the moment something dies, after that's eaten you still have a bunch of carnivorous AI.
brisk mesa
why the hell does a Herrera fit as a dropbear
compact coyote
naH
brisk mesa
Its anatomy is like, in no way suited to climb trees.
jovial arch
Eh, I’d prefer herra as a survivalist
compact coyote
sloth herra
brisk mesa
I mean Threetails
jovial arch
Not as the swarm god
brisk mesa
That depends if it is intended to be disposable or not.
nova shell
brisk mesa
And if Dryo will remain as disposable
feral wedge
@brisk mesa Why you hijacking ideas?
brisk mesa
Huh?
jovial arch
brisk mesa
^
jovial arch
Even I’m confused
regal sapphire
mental sleet
??
feral wedge
Twisting something that greatly in depth and well though out around for a different dinosaur seems to be a bit inefficient.
jovial arch
Tbh
I’m not a big fan of the idea
It’s not at all implementable anywhere in the near future
brisk mesa
A dinosaur that would likely be better placed to do that, imo, because we have absolutely nothing as small as a playable Velo on the herbivore side, and we already have a playable Raptor.
Herrera is basically a carnivore dryo.
blazing charm
?????
leaden night
Diggy Taco
true burrow
@compact coyote pipe it toots
nova shell
deinonychus when
compact coyote
:c
feral wedge
I believe you've missed the point by about 1000 leagues.
blazing charm
Does...no one actually read the full thing?
brisk mesa
I read it.
brisk mesa
You wanted to make an argument for playable Velociraptor.
regal sapphire
Just use Dryptosaurus for fucking dropbear tactics if you want them so bad
brisk mesa
What could be a balanced way to do it.
jovial arch
Multiple times
true burrow
I just want Herrera 😦
brisk mesa
I just personally find that Velo is ill-suited as a playable, with that given niche.
regal sapphire
It's better than meme tactic herreras and velos
brisk mesa
Accusing me, a person who reads texts walls and writes them as a passtime, of not reading something is bizarre.
Velo is smaller than a Juvi Utah.
jovial arch
To be fair most people don’t read
compact coyote
no they arent?
nova shell
velo would be ok as a playable
regal sapphire
Sinornithosaurus would work better if you want a drop bear @true burrow
nova shell
there's nothing inherently wrong with it
brisk mesa
A 1.0 Juvi Utah is larger than Velo.
nova shell
so?
compact coyote
yeah 1.0 ye
true burrow
I just want Herrera 
compact coyote
but before it aint
nova shell
brisk mesa
Its already a pretty lethal little shit.
nova shell
i mean
regal sapphire
So if you want a small giga playable.
compact coyote
brisk mesa
For something its size.
regal sapphire
you have one already:
compact coyote
hell yeah
regal sapphire
Allosaurus
compact coyote
juvie utah as a velo substitute
brisk mesa
I mean, I don't see what's a joke about that.
If juvis have the same abilities as adults
The pounce would benefit juvi Utah
Boom
There's your tiny raptor playable
leaden night
I'd be fine if Velo got in if Tacos got in as well
brisk mesa
Just dont grow.
leaden night
Which does lead to question of if they would grow or not
nova shell
taco playable
leaden night
jovial arch
I’m not opposed to the idea, but it seems excessively complex for something that’s not really that interesting
Like
nova shell
ur mom
brisk mesa
Gar, point is, I'm not hijacking an idea, or missing the point.
I just disagree with it being used on velo.
King's idea is pretty cool.
Have AI spawn as a swarming ability.
regal sapphire
The thing is
brisk mesa
And I even saw another situation it has use in, self defense.
brisk mesa
Its also smaller than Galli LOL
regal sapphire
it's a ridiculous idea to pin on herrera
jovial arch
Anything that spawns in ai
brisk mesa
What?
jovial arch
Is inherently abusable
brisk mesa
Herrera is bottom of Isle playable size.
I don't disagree with that Threetails
Thats a valid point.
Feed your buds.
I'm not debating that.
nor the validity of the idea
I Just think its a bit wasted on Velo.
regal sapphire
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Vraptor-scale.png/220px-Vraptor-scale.png
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/theropods/images/f/ff/Herrerasaurus_SIZE_.png/revision/latest?cb=20131122113838
You see the issue with giving herrera a swarm ability yet?
brisk mesa
Pyr...
barren zephyr
oof
barren zephyr
i mean
regal sapphire
Fucking
barren zephyr
dilos and utahs would fear it
brisk mesa
Herrera is still tiny as fuck.
barren zephyr
carnos might
leaden night
We have weapons like guns
jovial arch
And other weapons
brisk mesa
and we still swarm around in groups
regal sapphire
Ok bad comparison
brisk mesa
Yeap
regal sapphire
But
brisk mesa
bad comparison.
regal sapphire
The point still stands
languid ember
dilo jump with how easily they allready break their legs... 
brisk mesa
No it doesnt; Velo swarm wouldnt even phase a Utah.
regal sapphire
that herrera is a different ballgame to velo even if it's smaller than most
brisk mesa
Yeah but the ability would be useful.
nova shell
herra is not that small
brisk mesa
Velos are freaking cats.
coarse skiff
Velo should have better stats
compact coyote
foxes*
nova shell
no i mean the in game herra is not as small as that chart
brisk mesa
And Juvi Utah isnt?
regal sapphire
"Velo swarm wouldn't even phase a Utah" Boi by that logic pirahnas shouldn't put a dent in people
coarse skiff
More of a rat
brisk mesa
Piranha swarms are in the hundreds
and attack things that are swimming
and already injured.
what is a cow gonna do
regal sapphire
other fish many times their size
brisk mesa
if it cant escape or damage its attackers
yes and still in absolutely huge groups
I dont think Velo swarm
is gonna spawn in 20-30 velos
which would be needed
nova shell
well theres a difference
brisk mesa
to make a Utah shit itself
nova shell
the diffference is that the cow is swimming
brisk mesa
its out of its element.
jovial arch
You don’t get ground based swarmers that aren’t insects
leaden night
Piranhas have a stupid amount of biteforce compared to their body weight
jovial arch
^
brisk mesa
Yeah.
compact coyote
dont forget velos were said to get a buff to combat juvies
brisk mesa
Thats what I mean.
compact coyote
so imagine a utah juvie, but stronger in a sense
brisk mesa
Cows only get killed bc they cant do shit.
Why tho.
Juvi Utah with pounce
does that...
but also doesnt spawn an AI farm
brisk mesa
Yeah IK.
regal sapphire
I want you to keep in mind watt
brisk mesa
IMHO Velo playable isnt needed, nor brings anything to the table Juvi Utah wont.
Its an extra dino...
that would need to be balanced.
Have a Juvi added
Nesting anims
Etc
Aka
a huge waste of money.
regal sapphire
By that logic you could remove sucho because Subadult spino exists
when it exists
brisk mesa
Land Spino wont be aquatic.
leaden night
Spino is going to be terrestrial though
brisk mesa
^^^^^
They arent overlapping there
Also even their niches wont overlapp besides terrain.
Sucho is gonna be a bear
A bully but not really a hunter
Spino was mused as mr super hunter lad
regal sapphire
Looking at suchos anatomy
brisk mesa
So a sub spino doesnt do what a sucho does
regal sapphire
wouldn't be fully aquatic at all
nova shell
it wouldnt be fully aquatic
brisk mesa
Not fully aquatic either
nova shell
just fishes
brisk mesa
But actually specialized to fish
nova shell
sticks around water if it wants a reliable source of chow
regal sapphire
Oh so it's just a fisher but you used the wrong term to describe it
brisk mesa
Sucho would lack the ability to run shit down easily.
leaden night
More of Spino can't
coarse skiff
Velo isn't the same than a juvie utha...
nova shell
yea pyrinski
nova shell
u right gab
nova shell
juvi utah is just s stronger faster version
brisk mesa
coarse skiff
Not if it gets a swarm ability 
nova shell
yeah can this game have a not disgusting raptor kthx
leaden night
brisk mesa
Thats a lot of coding, and something exploitable af.
The devs would need to figure out
how to make a disposable dino not feed megapacks.
I can see it now:
your velo bites a thing being protected
swarms
dies in swarm along with all other velos
brisk mesa
and a very happy rex
coarse skiff
I'm against AIs anyway
brisk mesa
coarse skiff
They are always too smart or too dumb
brisk mesa
Thats #401464048610312195 tho
topaz epoch
They can be improved, but even basic AI can still mimic complex behaviors. I find they add more life to the servers. It will be nicer once we get bigger things as AI like maybe Ava or Maia
nova shell
correct, we don't, but we do need AIs to make the game immersive
because the predator to prey ratio of players is just about the opposite of what it should be
brisk mesa
I love seeing the server alive, dont get me wrong
seeing the AI when not broken by playercount is awesome
little things in the shrubs.
But I dont feel like the crux of experience should be depending on Ai.
topaz epoch
No, it shouldn't, and it's not IMO
brisk mesa
I mean, that depends how much food Maia AI would be worth
and how crappy they'd be
/ exploitable
feral wedge
A Maia is a maia
topaz epoch
If it mostly runs away like hadrosaurs should, I don't see the problem
brisk mesa
Take some time observing oro ai.
And you'll see my concerns.
They run but randomly u-turn towards their attacker;
nova shell
AI is bad tbf
coarse skiff
Carnivores shouldn't be able to sustain on AIs they can farm that easy
brisk mesa
they run until they burn their stamina
nova shell
are you to say that it won't get better?
brisk mesa
and sit down
No, I mean to say if it doesnt get A LOT BETTER its a problem.
Consider a Rex scares AI maia
it cannt catch rthem
But
If it keeps them running
they will inevitably do something stupid
Burn all their stamina
and sit down to get it back
get stuck on trees perhaps
Run towards his packmates
Break a leg falling.
He doesnt need to chase
or sneak...
He just needs to wait until the Ai cant keep up
with the world its in.
nova shell
that's simple
topaz epoch
You just listed a bunch of behaviors that players do
coarse skiff
AIs are not as smart as people
nova shell
once collision is in, make it so that the maias try to get towards the center of the herd once they geta certain distance away
brisk mesa
players learn.
nova shell
for safety yknow
topaz epoch
Yes, I have, lol
nova shell
and collision would make them not be able to
brisk mesa
Trial and error
nova shell
and they would trip over each other and die and easy dub for rex
topaz epoch
I fail to see how bad players dying relates to AI
brisk mesa
It respawns not having learned that X dino ambush catches
Because ultimately players improve
they adapt.
AI doesnt.
It lives and then it stops living.
topaz epoch
I also fail to see how that matters either.
topaz epoch
In the 5 minutes tops you spend seeing another random player in the game it's not going to go from being a moron to a genius
brisk mesa
As you've said, and I've seen brought up on stream.
Yes, but over their time playing they learn from their mistakes. I'm not talking short term here.
topaz epoch
How does that impact anything at all?
brisk mesa
Because AI will always make ther stupid mistakes.
Players eventually make them less and less.
A population base that learns
Isnt as exploitable
as one that doesnt.
If you pull some mad shit against players, it will work far less reliably any attempts after than on AI which it will remain roughly as successful.
topaz epoch
I... Disagree? Humans are susceptible to mindgames far more than an AI would be. In the sense that you can't mindgame an AI, at all
coarse skiff
And more complex is the behavior of a dino more errors an AI can do
topaz epoch
The AI don't need to be adaptive, and again, even simple AI can be programmed to emulate complex behaviors
brisk mesa
IK using any other game is always a poor example, but let's consider Ark for a moment. The same tricks to screw NPCs you cannot defeat can always be applied
See that Bronto? Get somewhere it cannot reach
And pelt its face with a slingshot
He runs away when torpor gets high
topaz epoch
You're using a game that has had half-assed development from the start as an example
brisk mesa
and comes running back when hes pissed a game.
topaz epoch
I just want to point that out
brisk mesa
Yeah IK
coarse skiff
With the AIs currently in game I doubt they are smart enough to play the isle
topaz epoch
I feel like you're under the same assumption that you were speaking under last time we had a similar to talk to this where you refuse to assume the AI will be improved in any way from where it is now.
brisk mesa
No I get its gonna be improved.
But ultimately, its not ever going to be 'good', if the devs made good AI they wouldnt be making games
As shitty as that is to say about the world, it is what it is.
uneven sluice
oro and taco AI are not bad rn
wintry cipher
given i can catch a velo AI as a fresh spawn utah when it otherwise can just book it and i have no hope of catching it....eh
wintry cipher
but, AI can be improved. theyre just in the early stages atm.
uneven sluice
its not bad though
brisk mesa
If Ai spawn near a predator, rn, they break.
Yes thats bad.
If a taco spawns beside you it suddenly loses any awareness of the world it lives in
You could threat roar it as a Giga for 10min and it wont even walk.
Or look your direction.
uneven sluice
yes thats just the spawning somehow interfiers with the AI
nova shell
i would say that's 'not good'
uneven sluice
but that doesnt make the AI bad
brisk mesa
And die.
They are far, faster than my slow shit.
But if they decide lemme run towards death well
uneven sluice
if AI oro was smart. You could never catch it with a lot of dinos as a juvi
brisk mesa
Cant do much
Thats an admission its bad tho.
The AI being good is exactly as you'd say, it would be hard.
coarse skiff
It makes them bad, bc of the Incredible quantity of food they give
brisk mesa
If AI are just a ressource
than thery are REAAAAALLY GOOD
bc they feed apexes
and dont know how to escape.
coarse skiff
It destroys litteraly the main fear of apexes : hunger
barren zephyr
that and serverwipes
viral creek
That last suggestion is making me vision dinosaurs moaning in a weird way and now I'm deeply concerned for my mental health
normal fern
@verbal acorn
Dinosaurs aren't into BDSM, besides the "screams" aren't even that loud
blazing charm
@barren zephyr Out of curiosity, where'd you find those?
barren zephyr
I did it
blazing charm
Oh?
barren zephyr
in sony vegas
The base on the nowadays roars tho.
I just add some nowadays animals roar + modified to them to match a bit the spino roar+ some sound effects
barren zephyr
Gorilla, Crocodile, Pig, Lion
barren zephyr
no
native nebula
i'd rather not mess with Spino's sound set. it's intended to be high pitched to set it apart from the rest of the large carnivores which can start to sound a bit samey if they're all loud growlers.
verbal acorn
@normal fern I want the screams gone because it scares me ok! You happy!?
barren zephyr
I understand that pov. It's just my opinion. I just think it could handle a tweak like allosaurus roars got
barren zephyr
@verbal acorn usually i disagree wit everything you say
but i like this one idk about a moan and idk why someone tried to be funny and say dinos arent in to bdsm
but i dont think the scream helps at all
or is necessary
next nexus
9 tonne adult bull tyrannosaur starts to hop about
yeah no, sorry but trash suggestion
wraith trout
Love the velo suggestion
brisk mesa
I mean TBF
We dont know if burrows are, well, actual burrows
We all saw that Taco test
But what if they are basically just, well, nests, that anything can destroy
hallow vigil
🌮
unborn quail
wraith trout
taco test?
brisk mesa
Yes the idea stems from a GIF posted by the devs
hallow vigil
would destroying all the burrows force it above ground? or just trap it lol
hallow vigil
ye prob
hallow vigil
meercat packs when
brisk mesa
ceases to exist while the nest is there
hallow vigil
yea
brisk mesa
If an actual burrow is made...
hallow vigil
the dirt home area is prob high up in the sky, or below the map.
brisk mesa
I mean we dont know if a dirt home exists
hallow vigil
or maybe its in another like, plane of existance or something like the nether in MC, no idea how that works
brisk mesa
It might just be: you despawn and are replaced by the nest.
hallow vigil
inb4 tacos burrow into strangers holes and theyre like "wth get out" but cant do anything cuz no attack
lel
wraith trout
lmao
hallow vigil
i mean obv that would get addressed but its a funny thought
barren zephyr
i dont think destroying the top of the burrow would force them out makes a lot of sense tho
unless the point is to hide it
brisk mesa
I think the point would be to hide it
barren zephyr
as well as be "hidden" underground
barren zephyr
are you assuming i play females?
wraith trout
DiD yOu AsSuMe My GenDeR?/?
brisk mesa
Well, if burrows dont make actual structures...
you'd want to hide your nest....
if not, something attacks and causes it to cave in.
hallow vigil
o i meant like, if a carni destroys all the burrow hole models on the surface, would that force it out cuz game balance, or go the realistic route and trap it underground
brisk mesa
I mean, animals tend to flee their burrows when they are being dug out
Even at last second
They dont sit there and let themselves be burried alive.
hallow vigil
ye
the game would have to force ppl to do it tho, otherwise ppl would stay under and die just to spite the carni of food lol
wraith trout
I wonder if the inside of the burrow is a physical area underneath the map or like a separate area altogether
brisk mesa
@lime olive I mean, it wouldnt make Trex anymore OP lmfao.
But the idea is sound, ngl.
You should not wanna walk around broken, thats obscene
lime olive
I mean if they break your leg, and then every minute they keep you standing your hp goes down by that percentage, it could get op with some bleed and base damage in it too.
brisk mesa
No lol.
Trex already kills everything other than its own kind...
in 6 bites or less.
lime olive
oh well there you go 😂
brisk mesa
Nothing is standing infront of a Trex
For more than a minute.
Its either dead or
Trex would grief doing that 😂
bites Allo
K ima not finish u
die to that broken leg
verbal acorn
What if walking on bone break drained stamina? And that depletion of stamina basically forced your dino to collapse.
barren zephyr
it would be nice
but thats a whole nother mechanic
for no reason
you could just die
limpid dove
@barren zephyr no, devs shouldnt have to go onto do not disturb because a person tags them here and there. rather, people should follow the rules and not tag devs.. plus, they probably need to be online, this way they can get notifications from their messages in case a member needs help, something important pops up, or an issue needs to be addressed..
barren zephyr
appear offline?
i dunno just seems pointless to be here if we can't communicate with them... i am just used to the guys at Codename Entertainment discord server
very responsive and active in their community
and when they are orange or red we don't bug them
imagine being this much of a troll
out of courtesy, not cause it's the law
wintry cipher
its their discord. they can put what rules they like.
barren zephyr
@barren zephyr i can 😄
sorry lol
i just really was interested in this game
dont @ me either
limpid dove
i messaged punch the other day and got a response in less than 10 minutes
barren zephyr
@barren zephyr sorry!!
limpid dove
and the other devs communicate throughout the channels whether it be helping people or just talking for a moment or so
barren zephyr
and all i read is bad stuff about the game, the community, and the devs… so i wanted to see for mysel
limpid dove
those are just people made of table salt
limpid dove
pick the right servers and stick around a while and youll see that isle isnt as bad as everyone says
limpid dove
there were, but theyre getting reworked.
barren zephyr
when? and when?
limpid dove
ETA
barren zephyr
ETA?
limpid dove
🤷
barren zephyr
when did they first announce himans
hello
why are you msging this person back
kapro
eta? hello
sit n wait friend
brittle ivy
Let's please move this conversation back to #401464048610312195 due to the topic no longer consisting of the original suggestion.
barren zephyr
@barren zephyr #401470471750811669
tepid light
no offtopic is not a meme drop, read the channel description
dreamy wharf
@tepid light Sorry to bug ya, but, out of curiosity was the post I made #general-feedback worthy? Or would it be counted as feedback? Seeing as you're the only mod online I'd figure I'd ask. Again, sorry to bother.
tepid light
first half seems like an appropriate suggestions but at the end it feel a bit more feedback-ish
tepid light
I mean , nothing wrong with your suggestion itself but the part where you get to entitled pricks just doesn't feel like it adds any thing to the suggestion 😄
dreamy wharf
Yeah, that's fair. Sorry, just kindof.. Alittle upset.
Me bein' super moody LOL.
But, anyways, thanks for the help.
warm ridge
I like the alberto suggestion
brisk mesa
@blazing charm is a similarly sized / larger target held in place during the thrashing? If so, especially if multiple Alberts can apply the deep wounds, it would be by far the most devastating pack hunter in the game.
Imagine a Rex gets caught offguard by a pack and two of them get in and start thrashing it, eventually its gonna get attacked by the other pack members all doing this devastating thrashing, and its going to quickly be in a position to be broken and killed.
barren zephyr
@blazing charm
High speed
Current Alberto is a sprinter, not an endurance runner, and has a great ambush (I've been catching up to survival gallis enough time to be sure of it)
I'm currently weighting the possibilies:
Great ambusher with a "slow" run that doesn't consume a lot of stamine (still more than allo while being a bit faster)
(Still) good ambusher, with a "fairly" long and fast sprint, but with the fragile build it should turn solo players from pursuing allos
"Fragile"
I didn't imagine Alberto as a "fragile" guy, but it seems the estimations when it comes to its weight are around 1,3 and 1,7 tonnes (metric, duh) and the ingame Allo is weighted at 2,4 t or something (I'm not sure if the game uses metric tonnes or the inferior short ton system, but still, allo is estimated bigger than alberto, so... not a lot of thing to contradict you as i though I could before realizing it)
Mechanic: Deep Wound/Fracture
First, I will say that the idea is interesting.
I can imagine it being a great tool for Alberto being an ambusher as it would dash at it's target and try to apply the "deep wound" debuff when in range, slowing down the prey slightly, but enough so other pack member can apply it as well, or to ease the hunt if playing solo.
The idea of stacking effects is nothing new, but this one is very interesting to me: "or the currently inflicted ones are hit".
I understand that you mean that, with the locationnal damage, bitting several time at an area where the debuff was applied would stack and imrpove the debuff? I can see potential in it as it could be tactic to aim for the legs/calves, applying a debuff on each leg and repeatedly attacking those areas to incapacitate the prey as quickly as possible before (or at the same time) using the primary bite to deal damage on a "pinned down" prey
coarse shell
@uneven sluice
not sure if you know this was already suggested
and much more in detail
uneven sluice
my suggestion is a bit different. Its more on how to make them not super op.
@coarse shell
its a way different suggestion
next nexus
why are you stealing his pictures though?
uneven sluice
you can steal pictures?
next nexus
dont act dumb, you know that reposting someone elses concept art in your own suggestion to garner more attention than it otherwise would get, is a dick move
brisk mesa
Ofc you can steal pictures lmfao
uneven sluice
Im trying to make them understand what the creature is im talking about
I never said it was mine
next nexus
then why not use official cannibal concept art?
brisk mesa
^^^^^^^^
uneven sluice
cuz that one was pinned and I think the devs are gonna use it
rather than the old one
next nexus
or just refer to them as cannibals? everyone will know what you mean
lament thorn
could have at least mentioned the artist in your suggestion
uneven sluice
why u guys care more than the actual artist. if the artist wants it taken down then I will take it down
barren zephyr
Yeah also you basically just suggested the same thing Stan suggested but in less detail
uneven sluice
did u even read mine?
next nexus
because they put a hell of a lot more effort into their suggestion and drawing the artwork than you did with yours LUL
barren zephyr
Yeah i read your suggestion and basically crippling the Cannibal players is not a good idea like what\s the fun in playing cannibal if it dies in the sun. And also Cannibals won't be able to kill dinosaurs anyway
next nexus
^
ever play as a vampire in oblivion and thought it was super fun? me neither
people already think night time being blindingly dark cripples the flow of gameplay, so having the reverse of it for cannibals doesnt fix anything, people will just log out and log back in once they can play again
lament thorn
also why shouldnt they be able to hurt each other?
barren zephyr
Also the third part of your suggestion not being able to hurt other cannibals is pretty ridiculous since these creatures are savage beasts and would basically be Solitary
Unless they also form tribes like tribals
lament thorn
i can see them in maybe groups of 3 but they wouldnt exactly be friendly constantly fighting over any food they can find
barren zephyr
Yeah they hate eacother
Also the second part of of your suggestion. Having to scream to find prey is kinda dumb since you know we got scent for dinosaurs why wouldn't Cannibals also be able to use it
next nexus
not to mention it would make fighting as them/ fighting them really dumb, they can all stack really close together swinging without caring about hitting one another unlike any other playable in the game
lament thorn
^^
barren zephyr
Yeah like having friendly fire not being a thing will basically make them trolls to humans
brisk mesa
Was about to say
cancerous no-friendly fire would make them obscene
you could have 5 cannibals throw themselves in a frenzy
and not harm eachother
barren zephyr
lament thorn
the suggestion makes them annoying to play but also strangely op
barren zephyr
Yeah and you yourself even said this was a suggestion to balance Cannibals but all it would do is just make them a pain in the ass for humans since Dino's are a no go for Cannibals
waxen elk
barren zephyr
No having Alberto in survival is a fuck you to all Allo players
lament thorn
i dont really see a point when we have utah and dilo
barren zephyr
Yeah that Neovenator Suggestion is just dumb it's just a oversized utah with a Dilo's build
barren zephyr
Also Watt i mean if Alberto is going into surivival wouldn't be faster than Allo
barren zephyr
^
stoic wing
wouldnt be nearly as fast and would be tankier
barren zephyr
So basically a smaller Cerato
stoic wing
no it wouldnt exactly be that tanky but wouldnt have a small health pool like utah either
also it would be more of a bleeder
than a crusher
lament thorn
so its a pointless inbetween?
stoic wing
how is it pointless?
brisk mesa
Spanker, Alberto would be faster than Allo
stoic wing
because we need more small tier dinosaurs
wintry cipher
@warped harbor i dont mind your idea, in fact it would be nice -but theyre going to buff velos now that they attack juveniles. this means no more afking in a bush or you will be lunchmeat for them >:3 so nesting will be useful as well because juvies might need the added protection rather than risk spawning in and running to their parents