general-feedback-discussion

[limber hull]

they're a last resort to prevent malnutrition

[latent olive]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/855527844670865438/1071229144748273794/Incomming.gif

but they drain quickly

[limber hull]

so they don't clog the stomach with useless stuff, yeaa

dont want to be trapped on useless vitamins

Actually, I'd make it that eating a nutrient overrides vitamins

[narrow nova]

I like your ideas, but maybe they're hard to implement

[limber hull]

So that, you eat carbs, but have a full 3 vitamins, it just discards a vitamin

don't need it as much

[latent olive]

(my salt lick removal of nutrients idea)

[limber hull]

it's just worse than the carb in every way

[narrow nova]

I think the first thing that should be solved is the sequential logic of filling the nutrient tank.
Should filling inactive nutrient tanks first rather than opening a new one.

When I have a empty nutrient tank

[vital plank]

Some of the new eye colors be kinda goofy ngl

[limber hull]

this is a fair take

[vital plank]

Idk about you but I've never seen a purple eyed alligator

Have you?

[tall hearth]

ive never seen a deinosuchus before, so whos to say it didnt have purple eyes?

[rare fractal]

I feel like the realism implications of the vast array of eye color choices is at the very bottom of the barrel of potential realism discrepancies one could take with the game

If anything the eye color variety is more fitting for how bizarre the animals already are

With basically every individual of a species having a unique color palette and pattern to some degree

[sterile pivot]

Massive lore leak here:
In the lore of the isle, one of the scientists making these dinos was betting with another scientist on who could beat minecraft quicker, but they lost and had to make the deinosuchus have purple eyes.
So now deino has the option of having purple eyes.

[tall hearth]

ill take that as canon

[limber hull]

@barren zephyr you have to remember that basically ALL animals in EVRIMA are stronger than their legacy counterparts, so it's evident that the EVRIMA apexes would also see a considerable boost in strength

[barren zephyr]

You do make a good point, but don’t forget that apexes would still be just as busted as they are in legacy if not potentially more so given that now they’ll all have new abilities on top of their insane stats

[sterile pivot]

Yeah as long as they are proportionally stronger as the midtiers id be ok with it. We dont need the sterotypical rex power crutch

[barren zephyr]

And I know they all dinos in evrima are getting abilities but now there’s potential for the gap between all other tiers and apex to widen, which isn’t a good thing by any means as it could ruin balance

[limber hull]

legacy also just... really favoured their apexes over literally everything else, and failed to make the size differences between animals make any form of sense.

[sterile pivot]

Very true

[barren zephyr]

Also true, but I do think the poor heal idea works well. Larger/stronger dino = longer heal time

[limber hull]

Below giga and rex was sucho and allo. Sucho was designed as a punch-down bully, allo was designed as a pack hunter on herbivores, neither were at all equipped to deal with the apexes

[barren zephyr]

As it’d still be a good way to prevent needless killing

[limber hull]

Also legacy had a bad habit of overpowering its carnivores and underpowering its herbis

Trike was just worse than both giga and rex

[barren zephyr]

Very true, it’s nice to see that (at least with stego) herbis are getting some more love and buffs

I hope the trend continues

[limber hull]

Although this might change with rex lol

[barren zephyr]

Yeah 💀

[limber hull]

Considering rex is faster than stego, and people don't think stego should kill a rex

[sterile pivot]

Thatll be the issue

[limber hull]

I don't really understand anything about this mindset btw

[sterile pivot]

Wdym?

[limber hull]

"herd up"

stego is not only a garbage herd animal with it's clumsy DPS tail, but relying on stego herding up to even stand a chance against rex will make it garbage

[sterile pivot]

Yeah its like needing 12 utahs to kill a carno. Making them pack dinos made less players use them, which made less packs, which then circled back to less people

Itll be the same with stego, except worse since stegos friendly fire all the time and theres fewer

[barren zephyr]

I think that’s why giving apexes and ESPECIALLY REX a horrid ability to heal would be great, so even if a stego can’t escape it or overpower it, the risk of being attack by say a high-tier or another apex after injuries from the stego hunt would be enough to discourage an attack unless the Rex was particularly hungry

[limber hull]

It's not even, it's worse than that by a grand margin. The omni can avoid the carno, live in forests, jump over rivers and so on to simply get away. The stego? It can't do ANYTHING to stop that rex once it sees it.

[sterile pivot]

I still believe that pachy and stego should have a anti-friendly fire set into them, both to avoid cannibalizing and for friendly firing. A stego cannot protect its young beyond body blocking and its lousy bite. Pachy can screw anything it hits including a fellow pachy

[sterile pivot]

Yeah good point

[limber hull]

Nah, that shouldn't be the case

Weird anti-FF mechanics for specific species isn't great

[sterile pivot]

Eh yeah we just need something to resolve cannibalizing in those two particular dinos. It only happens because pachy its free and stego its boredom

[limber hull]

It's boredom for both

Except pachy is worse because it grows faster

[sterile pivot]

Yeah

And after the first hit it isnt a fight

[limber hull]

Pachy is literally the most unkillable animal in the game if it pays attention to the screen

[sterile pivot]

Basically lol

[limber hull]

It's actually stupid how strong the animal is

Tenos, omnis, carnos, everything just dies if it screws up against one pachy, especially tenos

[sterile pivot]

And the big issue is its mainly bc of its fractures, which if nerfed in any way beyond fracture chances would screw it

[sterile pivot]

Especially tenos indeed

[limber hull]

Fracture chances are not a thing, and the worst issue isn't the fractures, it's the stuns

[sterile pivot]

Particuarly the canncelation on the stuns for carno charges and utah pounces as well as teno slams

[sterile pivot]

They actually are. If you have certain nutrients you have a 10% resistance to fractures, thus reducing the chances of fracturing

[limber hull]

Pachy shouldn't be able to stun tenos and carnos at ALL, unless it fractures the opponent's bones, imho. Fracture on hit = stun. No fracture on hit = no stun

[limber hull]

Not true at all

It's not a chance-based system

[sterile pivot]

I will literally log into my carno right now and show you

[limber hull]

I know, but that's not what the number means

It means the amount of fracture damage is reduced by 10%, not that the chances of a fracture are reduced by 10%

[sterile pivot]

That doesnt make a whole lot of sense

[icy lion]

Fractures are based on damage

[sterile pivot]

Oh really?

[icy lion]

Resist 10% of fracture means you need to take 10% more fracture damage to break

It's not RNG

[limber hull]

Every hit by a pachy does blunt damage. Each limb has a certain amount of blunt health before it breaks. Pachy's blunt damage scales with its raw damage

There's no chance in the system

[sterile pivot]

I never realized that ok ok that makes a lot more sense

[limber hull]

It's entirely based on real numbers

[sterile pivot]

I always thought it was completely dependent on location, and if you hit in that location you would get a break, however with the resistance it would have a 1/10 chance of not breaking. I see though now

[limber hull]

If that were the case, a baby pachy would be able to fracture an adult stego if it targeted the leg

[sterile pivot]

I thought that it was weight based

Similar to carno or deino

[civic musk]

I think the community is over exeggerating kissen's comments on apexes(as it always does)
I take "apexes will be more powerful than in legacy" comment as more capable in terms of things they can do rather than just Stat changes

Of course some will probably receive some stat changes like Rex because in legacy it was like what 5.8t

But the most notable differences will be their abilities and alt attacks

[urban flax]

I'm also wondering how one should perceive "more powerful than in legacy"
Because in legacy 1 utah could solo a rex, so it wasn't all that powerful, if you look at it in the right angle
Also evrything that was not an apex in legacy was much weaker than they are now in evrima

[limber hull]

thats because of the lack of alt-turn tho

add alt-turn and rex became unkillable god

because the game was balanced around the garbage movement

[urban flax]

True, but the fact that everything else was vastly underpowered in legacy is still valid
Especially herbivores (except galli)

[limber hull]

and maia

[urban flax]

Compare pachy then and pachy now
Even in the worst state it ever was in evrima, it was still stronger than legacy pachy

[limber hull]

by a mile

para, pachy, trike, dryo, all of these animals were just weaker than carnivore counterparts in the same tier

even if trike WAS strong, it was outclassed by the existence of the apex carnis, who were just BETTER

maia and galli were the only two real standout herbis

[urban flax]

What was rex's biteforce in legacy ?

[limber hull]

and both of them got this due to the fact that they could either run away from carnivores, or exploit the game's terrible movement to just kill opponents

1000N iirc

but it had the weight buff

[urban flax]

I see

[limber hull]

it got so strong because rex also outweighed everything (and just, stopped them from moving)

[urban flax]

Yeah, well we gotta see how it plays out in evrima

But I'm sure rex mains will complain they can't oneshot a stego with a tail bite

[limber hull]

i doubt rex will get fracture bite, we'll see though. Maybe a fracture special attack

[urban flax]

I'd like to see a headbutt
Maybe a pin finisher

[limber hull]

it's getting a headswing iirc

[urban flax]

Apexes should be at least teno-levels of skill floor (and ceiling) when it comes to brawling

And not, like some people seem to want, be bite-only

[limber hull]

yea, not understanding the unyielding desire people have for bitespam apexes

like people getting mad over the IDEA that rex should have 1000N, and thus not one-shotting a teno

USE YOUR ABILITIES YOU HAVE THEM FOR A VERY SOLID REASON

People requesting rex have a minimum of like, 2000 damage to ensure it one-taps a carno is just bizarre to me

[urban flax]

Rex fans

[limber hull]

i want rex and deino to have the absolute threshhold of biteforces

nothing above them that isn't a strain

rex top, deino second, everyone else below those two

[urban flax]

yep

[limber hull]

but yea bitespam rex lame if you want to win as rex actually use your abilities, dont be a loser

[lucid mauve]

Not sure why tho, the only thing you have is more or less power. Prob bad stam/speed/agility, its sorta the tradeoff you get. Teno can actually choose to avoid fights or pick. It can dodge/jump. For me thats a tradeoff, i need to spend time getting close to something. The fight itself is easy, but not the hunt.

Just like omnis, the hunt is easy but not the fight

[urban flax]

Teno has varied attacks with different effects, different speeds and different directions, and must adapt to its opponent and combo its different attacks to get results. That's the kind of gameplay I hope for apexes. Deino, for instance, only has 2 attacks (bite and alt-bite, I wouldn't consider lunge an attack but rather a kill switch) which do the exact same thing with slight differences.

[lucid mauve]

Yea, but it also has speed/agility/stam etc that you can use. Your faster, can avoid stuff cover much more area, this is a luxery rex dont have. But rex gets power, it shouldt be running around kiting/dodging/adapting to smaller stuff. If we talk Apex vs apex, yea thats another thing.

[urban flax]

A fight can involve skill without running or jumping around...

[lucid mauve]

Rex have nothing on teno if tenos sees it, and even if you want to fight the rex as teno. You still control the fight as teno, but your prob dead the split second you try to attack it.

[urban flax]

All I want is that apexes have attacks and ability combinations that are hard to master, but extremely rewarding when you do

[urban flax]

Why are you on rex vs teno matchup ? I only compared them because of their combat gameplay

[lucid mauve]

Yea i dont 100% disagree, but not way a rex should be worrying about skill if it catches a teno offguard. That should be a dead teno.

[urban flax]

Just forget about teno it's not my point

[lucid mauve]

Yea, if your talking apex vs apex. Skill should matter alot

[limber hull]

dude

you're focused too much on the teno thing

the basic idea is that rex should be more than just "me spammy spammy bite bite"

[lucid mauve]

It can be whatever, allos sized for what im talking about. If rex needs that much skill. I can go around as allo and kill bad rexes ?

[limber hull]

a rex player shouldn't be allowed to unbind every key but shift, w and M1

[limber hull]

ideally, a bad adult rex should either be very rare, or simply not exist

the nature of OBTAINING an adult rex should be inherently difficult and skill-based

[lucid mauve]

Rare sure, simply not exist. No way.

[limber hull]

idk the issue with that statement

[urban flax]

My point is that a good rex should be able to kill a bad rex of the same size and leave the fight almost unscathed

[limber hull]

weaker and less capable growing rexes should die off so that the older, more capable specimens can thrive

[lucid mauve]

To get it to grown adult should take skill, but if you mange to get to adult. Well you deserve it.

[lucid mauve]

yea, then i get your point. And do sorta agree

[limber hull]

although personally, i'd like the apex with the most necessary combat skill to be spinosaurus

being that it has the brawler archetype and (imho) should be consistently contesting with rival apexes, such as rex, giga, deinosuchus and deinocherius

and it's shown to hunt anky

[lucid mauve]

Contest? They not gonna be all fair fights, a spino can be heavly favor vs a giga. Or other way around, so they actually hunt eachother. And not just walk past eachother

[limber hull]

it's a slower, territorial animal that likes to control areas that most animals would like (water sources)

its obviously going to tussle with basically every big animal there is

[lucid mauve]

Yea, but that new map. You know more about it then me, but the water/rivers etc looked alot bigger. Even tho i think most keep a distance if they see a spino in the water. And not want to engage.

[limber hull]

the idea of having to keep a distance from spino at all times, especially as a deino, is very lame to me (at least for apexes)

[barren crater]

Tbf, solo omnis can go around killing bad tenos

There will 100% be rexes that lose to 1 - 2 allos

Needing skill is a good thing. I do not see the issue lol

[lucid mauve]

Im fine with skill, and i do agree that 2 allos might have a chance vs a bad rex. But 10 bad allos vs 1 good rex could be 10 dead allos lol

[barren crater]

That's fine

[cyan flame]

I honestly don't see a reason why not all playables, or at the very least all larger/apexes should have as well fleshed out combat as teno and require as much competence to be good at. It shouldn't just be about growing up, but also remaining alive, as a challenge.

[barren crater]

Yeah. I hope the same for the mid tiers as well

[lucid mauve]

But a bad rex should not be worrying about skill if lets say a carno litterly walks up to a rex cus it dont see the rex. Thats a dead carno

[barren crater]

Yeah, that's a solo carno tbf.

I expect 3 of them to be able to still kill a bad rex. To me, bad means that you either don't know the controls that well or your timing is bad

[lucid mauve]

Doesnt matter if they 5 carnos, rex should still engange without worrying

[barren crater]

Yes. If you know what you're doing lol

[lucid mauve]

You saying i should be running from 5 carnos ? And hope they dont see me lol

[cyan flame]

Yes, if you're a terrible player, that's fine.

[barren crater]

NO. I'm saying if you, the rex player - know what you're doing. You win

If you're average to bad, you'll probably die to 5 if I'm being honest

[cyan flame]

Just like how teno works, if you're not really good at it, you die very easily. If you're really good, you can take on odds that might surprise you.

[lucid mauve]

Even if the carnos players know what they are doing and i do. I should not be worrying, i should engange

[barren crater]

Yes?

[lucid mauve]

Yea, and those carnos should not go after me if i get a kill. That should simply be GG and goodbuy

[cyan flame]

Are you missing that we're talking about demand for skill on the rex. If it's a bad rex, it'll die, if it's good, it'll be just fine.

The point is more so that skill demand for rex should be akin to teno or similar, rather than well, deino or something.

[barren crater]

^ The playable should be at least as hard as teno if possible

[lucid mauve]

Im fine with skill if its to a certain point, a rex should not be worrying about beeing killed by 3 ceras. Unless its litterly their fist time playing, but then they should never be able to reach adult rex

[barren crater]

Tbf, situational. But if all parties are in the perfect condition, then yeah. 3 Ceras should never have the chance to kill a full adult rex

Now if the rex is weakened after a fight / low on stamina. Then who knows

[lucid mauve]

Yes yes, ofcourse. But if you get do adult rex, i hope they made it hard enough that they will need to know how o play the game

[cyan flame]

Well yes, I think the difference here is you're thinking of matchups, I'm thinking purely of the options and requirements for fighting itself. Again, teno has multiple attacks and most often needs to use them for the right circumstance and in the right order. The same should go for an apex or really any larger critter. Unlike current deino or stego for example, that has rather mindless combat.

[urban flax]

tbh fighting as stego is rocket science compared to fighting as deino

[lucid mauve]

Yea sorta, but i dont see me as rex standing 3 meter from a allo who dont know im there. Thinking, i need to time this perfectly this gonna be really hard if not. If i screw up now i might die.

How many hits you need to to kill stego as deino ?

[cyan flame]

6 on the head + one anywhere else.

[lucid mauve]

ahh, ok so 12+ if not head ?

[cyan flame]

Yep

[barren crater]

I think that's fair, although I'd hope that the timing would have to be good.

But no, a solo rex shouldn't worry about 1 allo lol

I hope rex has nothing similar to current deino lunge lol

[lucid mauve]

Depends, if it slow as i think. It deserves every meal it can, if people dont pay attention.

[lucid mauve]

It shouldt be worrying about 5 either if it knows what is doing. You still want the rex to engage packs without beeing scared of dying. Beeing more shouldt be "we do whatever we want without anything hunting us"

[barren crater]

5 allos???? That's allo sided / even

Or should be at least

[lucid mauve]

No, 5 allos gonna strong as hell. Can prob take alot of stuff down, but they should still be vary about apexes killing em.

[barren crater]

Same for the apex lol

[lucid mauve]

lol no, you want them to engange in packs thats good for the ecoystem. So me and you cant just pack up and do whatever we want

[barren crater]

Ok. Why not engage by trying to pick them off. You do realise 5 allos is like the mass of a shant?

Why would you ever just walk up to a group as a solitary creature that's great against 1 v 1

For all we know, Rex might not be the best at group fights, or at the very least not anything great.

[rare fractal]

Probably will because tank

[barren crater]

Depends mainly on the stamina cost of attacks for rex + what allo does in terms of bleed with grapple

[lucid mauve]

Do you read the what the dev says ?

[barren crater]

Yeah.

[barren crater]

Pretty sure Hypno has the main say in balance

[lucid mauve]

that was kissen

[barren crater]

Yeah

So it probably won't matter unless Hypno says it and we have the creatures in our hands

[lucid mauve]

Your actually question what kissen says out to the public, lol.

[barren crater]

Yes?

[lucid mauve]

Thats what they say about apexes now atleast, and thats what me and you should think it will be

Ofcourse its up to change

[barren crater]

I genuinely hope that isn't the case, because if so, they've failed with them

[lucid mauve]

i disagree , but wwhatever

[barren crater]

Apexes should NOT be that scary to face. Do you expect 4 - 5 dilos to kill an alberto?

[lucid mauve]

Alberto is not an apex ?

[barren crater]

Lol

[lucid mauve]

maybe im wrong, but if its not. I hope 4 dilos can kill a alberto

[barren crater]

But dilo is a small tier fighting a mid tier

While Alberto is A LOT larger.

Similar to how allo is a mid tier, fighting an apex tier that is Rex

Why can the small tier hunt the mid tier, but the mid tier can't hunt the apex tier?

[lucid mauve]

Maybe the small tier can hunt the apexes ?

Maybe dilo is better of going for a rex then an allo

[barren crater]

That wasn't the point though. You don't want 4 - 5 allos going after a rex and killing it. Even though it could have the mechanics to do that

You want the rex to engage at all times

What if allo was good at killing rexes? Is it now able to kill them in small groups?

[lucid mauve]

Yes, if i get the chance. But i doubt im gonna be hunting troodins as rex.

[barren crater]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Pretty much, why is that you want a small tier to hunt a mid tier in packs, yet you don't want the mid tier to hunt an apex in packs?

[lucid mauve]

I get your point, you sorta want pot balance. Where numbers is the main factor. But for me an apex should not worry about mid tiers, unless there is a big skill difrrence.

[limber hull]

No one here wants PoT balance

[barren crater]

BRUH

I never said anything like POT balance

What I want is apexes to actually be in the ecosystem and not be Gods

[rare fractal]

Something can be very strong but simultaneously not oppressive as well

[lucid mauve]

They are not, you gonna have trikes/acros/shants/rex/giga/spino/cherius/deino. They all gonna have a hard time

You as allo dont need to worry crap about me as rex , if you see me

[barren crater]

THIS. ^ As well as biomes existing. Yes as a Rex, I should worry about pack hunters if I'm in the complete open. Similarly as allo, if I spot say 6 omnis in the open and they run up on me, I kind of just die if I don't try to go somewhere smart

You can still fight a pack of allos, but you shouldn't just go up to them with no plan and win

This is what made Rex unfun in legacy. Alt turn and win. No threat. No fear. Literally avoid your kind

[lucid mauve]

lol no

And no i cant walk up to a pack of allos, and do what i want

they can choose exactly what they want if they see me

[barren crater]

and that is?

[lucid mauve]

Walk away, be there and keep distance, fight run.

[barren crater]

So allo packs can fight and kill a rex 😼

[lucid mauve]

Sure, i did so in legacy aswell. Even tho it was hard as hell. But your prob much better of going after something easier

not me, in pack that is lol

[robust dome]

I say dinos that are designed to be in group such as omni should be able to survive alone but not thrive. however Alberto, as you used for example, should require at least 3 but most likely 4 omnis to be taken down

small tiers should stil lbe fun to play but shouldn't make all your hours of progression as a bigger tier useless because just 2 of them killed you

[karmic sequoia]

@limber hull You saw and reacted to my suggestion when it was incomplete. I dunno if the finished version will change your mind but I hope you'll go back and reexamine it :)

[karmic sequoia]

Also, just wanted to say I like the vitamin AI idea

I assume they would be common enough for carnis to survive on but that players who exclusively eat AI would have to hunt constantly

[errant jungle]

something that should be added is temperature and resilience to it, as water temperature, so u have better ways to control where each dino will be staying and be as example more safe when drinking in some spots, cause beipi will be a really easy prey for the deynos, or as example that would force big predators and herbivores to mainly stay in valleys and openfields, while smaller beings would stay and make their home the forests where they stay warmer over time

or maybe force deynos to warm themeselves at the sun and dont swim to much at night, as example, it could affect defense, agility, damage and stamina, mainly stamina and damage

so a big herbivore woudl be a easy prey for a pack of utahs or ceratos if it ventures in the forest

[feral solstice]

Ah yes. Hire the team of modders making adjustments to the models and copying and pasting new sounds

[tall hearth]

@rare flower they are currently working on dinos, but they also have to include mechanics with those dinos. why? well...have a read.

[vital plank]

[vital plank]

Let's be honest a purple eyed deino is cursed

Down right ugly

[tall hearth]

give deino some more colors and it may end up blending better with skins

[urban bear]

@rare flower Finishing the game wouldn't involve adding finished or unfinished dinos, if theres no gameplay besides grow fight die adding those playables to the game wont matter which is why Legacy is the way it is.

[rare fractal]

Personally I don’t mind it, I appreciate the option existing then working down the options to my preference

[vital plank]

Preference is nice but if it just genuinely doesn't fit the game then its ok to be limited

When I think of the isle I think of scary dinosaurs tryna eat you not purple eyed alligators

Or almost any dinosaur for that matter

[rare fractal]

When I think of the isle I think of the glowing blue weather manipulating telepathic wizard strain spino that is still currently canon

Then I see a weird dino eye color and think “man that’s the most normal thing in this lore isn’t it”

[tall hearth]

Do be true tho

[vital plank]

True but thats a strain its meant to be different

[rare fractal]

It’s not too different actually

Omni is proof of that

Spino is as well

[tall hearth]

I mean if all the dinos are genetic mutated monsters as per the lore I dont see any issue with a purple eyed croc

[rare fractal]

All dino spawns come from a sentient cosmic toaster

So I don’t have an issue with purple eyes too much

[vital plank]

Reue but it still seems odd

Hyoos are weird in a cook way

[tall hearth]

Let the toaster have fun 🎉

[vital plank]

If I see a purple eyed dino I'd just cringe

I see a deino with purple eyes and lose all fear for it

[tall hearth]

Seems odd to you, seems fine to me. Just personal opinion and doeent affect the overall gameplay loop or generalized experience

[rare fractal]

Lunge makes me lose any possible idea of fearing a deino that could’ve ever once existed

That ability is far more cringe than any purple eyes

[vital plank]

The eye thing wasn't needed tho no one asked for it it was just random

[tall hearth]

People did ask for customizable eyes tho

[vital plank]

How so its a cool ability

Purple eyes make me think its some roleplay game or smth imo

[tall hearth]

Roleplay may be cringe but it's ok to let people embrace their inner cringe instead of beating it out of them

[rare fractal]

Deino has lunge, an ability that permits it to 1 shot 75ish% of the completed roster from a location it cannot be spotted from, with no counterplay aside from luck and finding drinking locations they simply cannot access, and all prey is required to get within striking range every time they need to drink, in a survival game with permadeath…

[vital plank]

Na g if I'm a deino and I see a deino with an ass skin I'm 100% committing cannibalism

[rare fractal]

The sheer fact that the appeal of the game is the situation it places you in is proof enough that most people are in it for the rp

To some degree

[vital plank]

Deino shouldn't have been added this early in the first place considering its a semi aquatic t rex for all intensive purposes

And it 1 shotting most of the roster rn makes sense

[cyan flame]

I'm mostly amazed you have the time and focus to care about the deinos eye color when it's actively trying to drown you or bite you :p

[vital plank]

Usually those players lack the braincells to do it since all of it got absorbed by said eye color

So yea im pretty amazed too

And I only used deino as an example

Purple looks ass on almost all dinos ingame if not all

[rare fractal]

It literally doesn’t matter when it was added, oneshots in general in this game from creatures you cannot see or counter shouldnt exist

Deino if added after Alberto would oneshot it as well

That’s…..ew

[vital plank]

Its a semi aquatic t rex thats like being surprised if rex 1 shots a utah

[tall hearth]

Purple blended with the right skin colors look good tho, and its just a cosmetic choice. I dont complain about car colors in racing games cause I think a purple car looks bad. I just dont use the color

[vital plank]

Ehh man it just looks like they're tryna make an edgy skin or a Pokémon either way

[rare fractal]

You can see the rex before it hits you…this is a game, there’s a reason deino also doesn’t oneshot stego

Balance always takes precedent

[vital plank]

Doesn't look believable essentially

[vital plank]

Its really situational you could be in thr jungles and get ambushed by a rex

[tall hearth]

Some "edgy" skins look good. I've made a Ptera with all red colorings that looks great. A lot of people would consider it "edgy" but I enjoy it.

[vital plank]

So in some situations you won't see the rex before it hits you

[rare fractal]

Not if you’re looking for one no

[vital plank]

Purple tho is a no bueno lol

[rare fractal]

Rex is massive, and even then you can run away from it

[vital plank]

The thing is deino is designed to be like that even in reality prey don't usually see the croc before it strikes

[rare fractal]

That’s why it’s bad for the game

[tall hearth]

Subjective opinion.

Purple being an option is good for player choice is a good objective opinion.

[vital plank]

Not really you can always drink from shallow ponds

[vital plank]

Yknow your absolutely right however purple still looks mid

[rare fractal]

So the solution to deino is to entirely negate its existence…fantastic

[vital plank]

I mean

Someone's gotta die to a deino at some point

[rare fractal]

I mean if that’s something your fine with then I support it

I’d prefer for deino to be irrelevant as well

[vital plank]

Lol its meant to be one of if not the most effective ambush predator on the isle

[vital plank]

You even said it yourself this game is adding hypos so

Gl when thry come out

Not only will you see them before they attack but you orob won't escape either

And if anything thats far worse

[rare fractal]

Yes, and I think those are also bad for the game

[cyan flame]

Why are you so hung up on purple specifically? :p

[rare fractal]

Unless they’re made so obvious that you can literally smell them from across a plain before they reach you

[vital plank]

That topic ended like 2 mins ago my g you kinda late to the party

[cyan flame]

You're still here, you can answer :p

[vital plank]

We discussing hypnosis now

[cyan flame]

And I am curious, that's all, since you seem to take offense in particular to that color for eyes xD

[vital plank]

Alr ima sum it up it looks bad on almost all dinosaurs and if removed no one would have an issue anyways

[tall hearth]

A purple eyed croc ate his whole family

[vital plank]

Na

His whole family ate him

[vital plank]

Yea but unfortunately that won't be the case

Hyoos unfortunately and fortunately are meant to kill everything that breathes air

[rare fractal]

Why not?

[vital plank]

And deino is well just a more ambush adapted water dwelling t rex

[rare fractal]

Why wouldn’t the devs want their players to stay logged when a hypo is on

[vital plank]

Who knows maybe the whole server can team on it lol

I think I know why

[cyan flame]

Yes and Hypers are also meant to only happen once in a blue moon pretty much, and they inevitably die shortly after being "born" due to lack of food to sustain them

[vital plank]

Thry want hypos as an end game thing

[cyan flame]

I don't think they're comparable to a normal playable by most means

[vital plank]

Once you grow every dinosaur ingame a lot what are you gonna do

You finna grow hypos and stuff

And murke the whole server

[cyan flame]

You're not going to "grow" Hypers far as I know, it's very much a "do a long line of unknown quests until you somehow become one, then kill the entire server, and die of starvation"

[tall hearth]

I'm just gonna play what I like and not worry about attempting to progress to hypers.

[vital plank]

Now I know i wouldn't want tobe eaten by a hypo but ifs only fun if your the one playing thr hypo

[cyan flame]

Then maybe if you're lucky, you might achieve it again at some point ,but probably not because you won't know what you did to get there the first time :p

[vital plank]

I forgot its like a disease thing mb

[vital plank]

Hypos are just taking going out with a bang to the extremes

[violet magnet]

imagine finally getting to the hyper stage after hours and hours of tedious grinding, only for the entire server to just log out as soon as they hear you 1-call

someone has the equivalent of a tactical nuke on the server
"well heck with this I'm not losing my dino that I've been growing for a week to something I can't fight or run from. logs"

[urban flax]

I kinda hope being a hyper will bring you a goal that is normally impossible to reach, not just kill every dino in sight
Something like destroying a large human base, or killing something hella powerful

[limber hull]

i personally want brachis to be the hyper equivalent for herbis

[cyan flame]

Brachi should probably be huntable by something like three or four gigas, rather than waiting for a hyper to show up.

[limber hull]

still personally heavily disagree with this take

[urban flax]

Three gigas for a brachi seems low

I'd say they could stand a chance, but it'd still be brachi favoured

[plush girder]

I have a question. Is there going to be any specific content released in the near future, or just some minor stuff to attract back players who are fleeing? And there are more and more of them.

[limber hull]

near future, we know for a fact that Troodon and venom are coming in the next update

other stuff with a non-set date, but are relatively close are Unreal Engine 5 port, Gateway (the new map), the migrations system (comes with Gateway) and Beipiosaurus

[summer phoenix]

hey @crystal trail if you dont mind me asking at all, is it possible that the aviary or just a dome shaped building in general on the new map might have some sort of i guess "biome rooms/areas" withhin the structure kinda like that one map from the old game primal carnage, but if not its implemented. Do you think something like that could be implemented at all in the future?

[lucid mauve]

Off yea, but i hope its not "normal" to be 3-4 apexes in a pack. I hope thats almost impossible to maintain that number : P

[sterile pivot]

Would have to agree. They should be very very strong.

[robust dome]

@barren zephyr I hope this will be fixed with Gateway as the map is smalelr to generate and UE5 will come with it too, cuz it is insufferable

[barren zephyr]

yeah i mean in parts of the map i get 100+ then some parts its under 20

pretty much unplayable haha

[robust dome]

mostly will happen at NorthWest or Center or when you are in a fight

[barren zephyr]

mhm

[gentle flint]

@fierce dock I know this probably doesn’t help but I think half the reason it isn’t implemented is because you can rage quit in the middle of a fight and just.. die, which takes the fun out of it for one party and the horror out of it for another. I know you can just add a timer to it or whatever, but I think that’s the reason it’s not at least. And so you can’t just easily keep dropping corpses all over the place.

[fierce dock]

They can code it so it disables it when you're hurt or bleeding

[thin zenith]

@fierce dock I get ur point but it also just kinda ruins the survival aspect if everyone could just suicide whenever

[thin zenith]

Ok that makes sense. As long as its a decent amount wait from pvping

[limber hull]

@unreal ridge it’s planned, but dinos won’t be able to understand human

They’ll hear it as something like radio static

[unreal ridge]

aw man

i'd love to run in on someone, grab his friend and hear him scream

but I guess it prevents dino human mix packs

[limber hull]

I mean, you’ll hear him scream

[unreal ridge]

thats good

[limber hull]

You can kinda gather what very loud static means

In this context

The dinosaurs can still HEAR you, they just can’t understand you

[lapis swallow]

I bet there will be some mods (once modding drops) where you can understand humans as a dinosaur and it will be hilarious

[tepid gate]

There should be no scenario in which there's more than 2 Gigas and 2 Gigas should be enough to kill a Brachio if they're good enough.

Brachiosaurus is big but it's not Puertasaurus-big, more like just half its size.

[tepid gate]

Brachi is not a hyper equivalent for herbivores. That kind of thing made sense for Puertasaurus. Brachiosaurus is a midget compared to both Puertasaurus and the hypers. It would literally get eaten alive by anyone of them.

If that's the devs intention for Brachiosaurus then... lol, might've wanted to pick a bigger sauropod not a runt like Brachiosaurus.

[scarlet ocean]

How big is pue then I was under the impression it’s the size of pue or just a little bit under. (Trying to make some sense of the fact only hypers should hunt brachi, this topic has gone around for weeks now)
I wish there was a comparison of what a hyper next to a brachi would look like 💀

[urban flax]

Yeah but we're talking about a thing that cannot hide or run away from anything once adult, so it MUST have a good chance of winning any fight

[tepid gate]

70t or so

in that ballpark

[scarlet ocean]

And brachi is?

[tepid gate]

it was thought to be the biggest sauropod at one point

37t or so?

[scarlet ocean]

Bruh

[tepid gate]

Hyperendocrine apexes absolutely dwarf it

[scarlet ocean]

Brachi smol compared to that then

[tepid gate]

it is small

that's what I'm saying

carnivorous apexes when fully grown are in the 10t ballpark

[scarlet ocean]

I thought brachi was the biggest sauropod, or Argentino 💀 I see I’m not very good at my sizes

[tepid gate]

Argentino is the biggest sauropod

it's likely slightly larger than Puertasaurus

[scarlet ocean]

Nvm then

[tepid gate]

Puerta used to be thought to be bigger at one point

but I think in the end Argentino ended up beating it in size

Brachiosaurus isn't even in the top 10 from what I recall

it's really not that big of an animal

well it's absolutely enormous by our standards

but not by sauropod standards

[scarlet ocean]

Just give us pue then, it would make mr’s want much more realistic to me. Like instead of brachi being that Goliath they want, why not just pue 🥲

[tepid gate]

idk don't ask me, I don't have a strong stance on that, I used to like Brachiosaurus but honestly this animal is extremely popular for what it actually is

probably because of that first Jurassic Park film

[scarlet ocean]

JP nostalgia

Absolutely, we love a brachiosaurus, but eh (eh about that whole hyper v brachi thing)

[tepid gate]

Yea as I said the 2 Gigas should be able to kill it if they're good enough. This fight should probably still be in favour of Brachio but the sight of 2 Gigas should make it sweat.

I also don't think I'm really feeling gigas being in pairs commonly.

[scarlet ocean]

I found this picture, not the popular unofficial isle size chart, but seems reputable enough. I assume the big black thing is a hyper X-X

[tepid gate]

That's a really weird size comparison but if you look on the left the Brachiosaurus isn't the big one, that's Puerta I think, Brachiosaurus is the one next to it, the smaller lighter blue one(but not the very light blue one, that's Camara)

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, it’s odd, but it’s appearently popular enough to be the 2nd after the imbur unofficial size charts

And yeah, that’s very clearly pue, I recognize that face anywhere

[tepid gate]

idk who made it and don't want to say how accurate it is

but that Brabchio would be dead if it ended up that close to this monster

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, I’m not saying it is, but possibly reputable enough. I remember playing hypers on legacy deathmatches, and it kinda looks accurate compared to pue, im sure there are pics out there, idk hypo rex or hypo spino and a pue

[scarlet ocean]

Yup 💀

[tepid gate]

like idk if they wanted something that looks like Brachiosaurus a better choice would've been Sauroposeidon(actually my favourite sauropod)

it's simply just much bigger

[scarlet ocean]

It looks.. very similar

[limber hull]

sauroposiden is the coolest goddamn name i've ever heard for a dinosaur

[scarlet ocean]

[tepid gate]

^ at least it's up there

one of the most amazing names for sure

[scarlet ocean]

It does look cool, yes

[limber hull]

honestly, with Apollo Engineering/Dondi's obsession with referencing Greek mythology, it's a shocker Sauroposiden DIDN'T get in

[tepid gate]

ikr

also pardon me after its size nerf Puerta is only down to 55t

70t was the ballpark of the size in which it was when it was thought to be as big/bigger than Argentino

[urban flax]

@quasi bluff wdym I have an AZERTY keyboard and I can remap my controls just fine

[rancid raptor]

@limber hull Currently, carno should be a cannibal

[limber hull]

i dont disagree

hence why i posed it more towards future stuff

[rancid raptor]

Carnos don't have much to worry about.
Omnis? Just run away

So no, it should stay as a cannibal for a long time

[limber hull]

(even though carno's current cannibalism is partly what makes it so strong and dominant)

[rancid raptor]

It's what keeps carnos at bay from thriving more than they should

Currently, carnos should worry about each other

[limber hull]

their numbers only prosper from cannibalism, not the other way around

its actually really funny

since they can feed off any fallen ally or random corpse they find of their own, they can sustain and grow themselves much easier

[rancid raptor]

@unreal ridge Yes, very good suggestion
And there would be nothing negative with adding this for humans

[limber hull]

a failed hunt is a successful one for a carno pack

[icy lion]

Proxy VC is planned for humans

[rancid raptor]

Very nice, smart decision

[rancid raptor]

That's irrelevant when you bring up the fact that a carno would be way more comfortable when it doesn't have to worry about getting cannibalized

[limber hull]

not really, no

it makes groups WAY harder to sustain

[rancid raptor]

It would be better to have carnos worrying, and having larger groups (which by the way, where did you get that from?)
Than letting carnos be comfortable, and have smaller groups

[limber hull]

carnos are already comfy

cannibalism helps that

[rancid raptor]

Not as much as they would have been if they didn't have to worry about each other, which I told you

[limber hull]

abundant and easy protein nutrients

[rancid raptor]

Cannibalism lessens a player's comfort

[rancid raptor]

Which is why you know that cannibalism should stay a thing for a while, with carnos

[limber hull]

It tends to do the opposite for carno, it widens options

[rancid raptor]

Where do you get that from?

[icy lion]

It means people can make megapacks, and when any of them die they eat their buds

[limber hull]

(which happens A LOT)

[icy lion]

And get rewarded with diets for it

[limber hull]

the whole "starve fast" problem is overlooked when you can simply eat a fallen mate and keep the whole pack running

[rancid raptor]

where did you gather that information @limber hull

[limber hull]

you want me to bring some pie graphs for a situation that happens in game or something???

[icy lion]

It's a difficult thing to try and find a solution for, since how do you encourage cannibalism effectively without rewards while simultaneously making sure they're not rewarded for playing poorly and losing pack members?

[limber hull]

how am i supposed to present this to you

[rancid raptor]

You're bringing up anecdotals

How do you know that groups are larger when cannibalism is a thing?

[icy lion]

That's all anyone has unless they're running a server profiler

[limber hull]

i believe territorialism is a far better approach. Make them fight for their hunting grounds

[rancid raptor]

@limber hull Can you explain how you came to that conclusion and mention scenarios that you have seen with your eyes?

[limber hull]

and with gateway's spread out and smaller stretches of plains, this may happen more frequently than Spiro's several miles of stretching plains

[limber hull]

that's... more anecdotes though

you told me you didnt like those

[rancid raptor]

Are you able to? Or do you speak about what you think, and not what you've seen?

[icy lion]

An anecdote includes stuff we've seen

[limber hull]

okay

i've seen a pack of 4-6 carnos run around plains and terrorise a group of tenontos (me included). Luckily, these carnos were hot garbage (and this was pre-U6), and we killed some. The other carnos, rather than continue the fight in the desperation for food, simply called it quits and just ate their friends, getting all the food and nutrients they needed from the hunt

[rancid raptor]

And this scenario outcomforts the fact that you need to worry about getting cannibalized by stranger carnos? /getting your trust broken

[limber hull]

very much so

they lost the hunt and had a full meal

that was BIGGER than the actual prey item

still gave them nutrients

gave them full stomachs

[icy lion]

Right now carno cannibalism rewards overpacking with bad players, basically, lmao

[limber hull]

you know what's uncomfortable? starvation and malnutrition, a concept alien to carnos

[icy lion]

But at the same time, I want them to be cannibalistic right now since they're the biggest baddest thing aroung

[limber hull]

which is fair

hence why my post was why it shouldn't be a cannibal (forever)

but to deny carno hasn't been massively benefiting from both its ability to pick and choose prey items AND benefit from losing is absurd

[icy lion]

There will inevitably be carno players that stick closer to intended pack sizes and readily hunt other carnos, just as there's carno players that overpack to the max and reap the rewards of getting killed

[limber hull]

again, with gateway and the like, i'd VERY much like to see a lot more territorial conflict, rather than just people fighting because they can or they want quick nutrients

[rancid raptor]

The fact that you need to worry about cannibalization is passive. That is a constant worry.
The comfort of cannibalization, in your scenario, only happens occasionally when your mate falls - or you find a carno's body, in comparison to passively and constantly worrying about getting cannibalized every time you meet a strange carno.

Passively worrying about stranger carnos killing you is a larger discomfort than the comfort you lose from not being able to eat carnos.
Carnos have to be cannibalistic, you can't deny it. At the moment, they need to be. Or else, they don't have much to worry about.

The interesting thing I find is that you, personally, somehow think it is more comfortable to be able to eat a fallen carno - than the comfort of not having to worry about carnos killing you.
The comfort of not worrying abt cannibalization is passive, your scenario is occasional. You see why you were very wrong earlier, about your scenario being more comfortable?

[limber hull]

killing a carno should be like protecting your stake and your food source

[rancid raptor]

it's very much wrong

[limber hull]

worrying about starvation and malnutrition is also a passive, a constant worry. Unless you're a carno. Or a deino.

Honestly the entire nutrient system is scuffed atm

Hate that AI give nutrients still, with the exception of ptera eating fish

[icy lion]

That's a fair assessment, but people are passively worried about meeting hostile members of the same species while playing as every species

Loiter in the server channels for a day, you'll see "canni X" pop up for everything (except dryo and hypsi since people don't play those )

[limber hull]

every animal kills every animal

difference is, carno gets rewarded for it

deino makes... sense. I don't like how many nutrients it can get from EVERYTING (bones, fish, cannibalism, organs, preferred food), but that's another topic

[cyan flame]

I'd say the reason people are worried about carno cannibalism is because most of them just don't realize that there's zero downside to just teaming up with any other carno, so they kill each other anyway. If they just thought about it, you'd never have carnos cannibalize, because why bother risking. You work together, if you find no prey, one of you starves, the other gets food and you can come back and fill up too. If you make a kill, you both get food as well.

[limber hull]

like, i get it, deino's opportunistic, but it really isn't hard to grow for an apex

the only reason it's a cannibal is nothing else CAN kill it

and even if it wasn't, they'd still kill each other

[cyan flame]

Cannibal omnis xD

[limber hull]

its really funny, people fail to realise that cannibalism functionally rewards working together over infighting lol

at least, on carno

because again, strong and capable hunter

[icy lion]

Even on deino too

[limber hull]

it's not an opportunist, it's a very independently capable hunter that can pick its prey and pick its fights

deino at least has to wait for food to come to it

[icy lion]

Bait the bad players around you to kill that stego then get 8000 times X kg of diet

[limber hull]

lmao true

stego is the butcher for your free food

personally, i STILL think raw meat providing nutrients silly

I'd rather we focus on organ-based nutrients

[sterile pivot]

Would AI be given their own organs to supplement this or would something different be obtained

[limber hull]

AI would provide meat, that's it. Meat fills hunger and a fuller stomach = slower nutrient drain

[sterile pivot]

That would be great

[limber hull]

So keeping a stomach nice and full reduces the need to go on a new hunt

You hunt dinos for nutrients, then eat their meat to fill your stomach to maintain your nutrients, then survive on AI to keep those nutrients high

Starvation would rapidly drain at your nutrients, quickly leading to malnutrition. Anything over 50% stomach would be a positive impact on nutrient drain, anything below 50% would be negative, increasing their drain rate

This solidifies meat as an essential part of the survival process, rather than just a proxy to obtain nutrients

It also makes the animals INTERACT

Rather than retain themselves to one corner and never move

Because AI will sustain them

[queen ember]

Why ai animals shouldn’t give nutrients once we have a larger roster

[icy lion]

Imo ai should only give nutrients to juvies and tiny, tiny animals, if that. Even then, I'd only want there to be 1 option or only 1 nutrient that can get filled by them

I also never want AI to have organs

Though I did like Wavepoole's 4th nutrient idea

[rancid raptor]

what

You can't compare the passive worry of cannibalism with the passive worry of starvation

It's unbelievably easy not to starve atm.

And the worry regarding starving and hydration is only when your food or water is low

In that case, you're wrong about it being "passive". It's not passive. The danger is only there when you see your water/food is low

However, cannibalism's danger is always there - because you always have to check your surroundings.
If your food is full, you'll know not to worry for at least 10 minutes. Won't even have to check the bar.

With cannibalism, on the other hand, you look around you - find out there is no one there, but you still have to constantly look around you

That's not just with cannibalism, it's also the passive worry of other things than carnos trying to kill ya

But that worry is specially in regard to carnos, because they can come out of nowhere. unlike other dinos in our current roster

[rancid raptor]

you made a horrificly bad comparison right there, no offense - all respect to you.

nutrition isn't a "worry" in the same way that starving and cannibalizing is, because lack of nutrition won't kill you. that's another bad thing about that comparison

soo, yeah

we've now established, and agreed, Upon the fact that:

Cannibalization between carnos SHOULD be a thing now, because the passive worry about being cannibalized by another carno is needed

worrying about starvation is not even passive, that's an invalid thing to say. idk why that was even said

no offense but now that i think about it, it's not passive at all. not in the slightest

[swift atlas]

@broken thorn would be a action specific to open big corpes, trashing is still a thing for small corpse you can carry

[rancid raptor]

@swift atlas

Personally I'd rather bite the corpse, rather than be stuck in an animation where I can't see around me

For a short period of time

Incredibly unsafe

[swift atlas]

as i said, could be both

[rancid raptor]

The reason why they just did a "bite the corpse" mechanic, is because it's safe.
Our devs didn't see a need to make it so nerfed till the point where your life's at risk whenever you're opening a corpse

yeah well why would anyone do the animation, which is just a riskier option

[swift atlas]

avoid friendly fire when big groups

[rancid raptor]

i don't see how it's logical to add an animation which does the exact same as another thing

[broken thorn]

That's what I meant. When you approach a body that you can't carry, you'd put your leg onto it, bite in and start ripping left and right.

Whilst also still being able to trash smaller prey you can carry

[rancid raptor]

what?

[swift atlas]

instead of start to say "get away, get away" 10x

[rancid raptor]

wdym

are you saying to remove friendly fire when in big groups

[swift atlas]

i said add an actions to open corpse too, instead of just using bite

[icy lion]

He's saying that having an animation to open a corpse removes the risk of friendly fire while opening the corpse

[swift atlas]

thank you

[icy lion]

Which is why he said it could be an option

Just an idea, not that deep

[swift atlas]

i would use in big groups

[rancid raptor]

Making an option that has the same purpose as the other alternative? There is no such thing in evrima rn
because it's not a good idea

there are no 2 options for the same outcome

[icy lion]

Thrashing

[rancid raptor]

Not the same what so ever

He's referring to a large corpse, 1 animation or biting

Thrashing is for things that fit in your mouth, where the nutrients from the organs will barely give you anything due to it being so small

Thrashing /=/ animation for opening up a large corpse

[icy lion]

Organs currently always give the same amount of nutrients

[swift atlas]

we have that, if you eat the body instead of bite it, you will open it anyway

did you know that?

[rancid raptor]

That's called just eating the body, and the body losing its meat gradually

[swift atlas]

yeah, this could be the way it works, but we still have 2 options to reach organs

[rancid raptor]

Only with incredibly small corpses that fit in your mouth

Which by the way is not the same as making 2 options, that do the exact same thing, for a large body

Why would anyone want to do an animation when they can just make due to the way safer option

It wouldn't be a good idea

[swift atlas]

no, this works for big corpse, you can reach organs just eating the corpse

this is 2 options

[rancid raptor]

you can not eat nutrients without removing the organs from the body, no

i think you must have misunderstood, maybe some organ was inside of the body you ate

[cyan flame]

Considering they have thrashing, it would have made more sense to have another anim for larger bodies, than just biting :p

Also would have been cooler xD

[icy lion]

Currently you can reach organs of large corpses by either biting it or eating the body until it opens

[swift atlas]

exactly

[rancid raptor]

the reason thrashing exists is because it doesn't make sense for a large dinosaur to gnaw away at a body at the size of its mouth just to open it

not the same as the alternative

[rancid raptor]

eating the body until it opens /=/ eating the nutrients directly from the body

[cyan flame]

Could have fixed that by changing the amount of bites needed based on targets

[swift atlas]

our friend here don't accept that people can make use of it, specially with big carnis

[cyan flame]

So one bite would open small corpses, more bites needed for larger ones, depending on the size of the corpse and the thing biting

[rancid raptor]

make use of an animation that puts you at more risk than just biting the corpse?

[icy lion]

I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm saying that those are the two different ways you can reach the organs

[cyan flame]

But still, we got trash, so another anim for larger bodies wouldn't go amiss, it might feel more immersive at that

[swift atlas]

how much time do you think it would take?

[cyan flame]

But it's hardly needed, at least not for now

[rancid raptor]

2 seconds, enough time for something to sneak up on you.

also keep in mind that making such an animation is not worth the outcome compared to the resources it will require

you will need different animations for every dinosaur

for the dinosaur that is thrashing, and for it to fit any type of corpse

not worth it what so ever

when you can just be safe and LMB

[swift atlas]

we have a lot stuff that could fit into the "a lot resource for nothing", idk why a new way to do something pisses you off so much lol

[rancid raptor]

can you mention 3? since you say "alot of stuff"

[swift atlas]

for me? all human work, small animal work, and others stuff. I see a BIG need in balancing survivability and make game survivability better, (talking about what is most important) rn is just a PvP grow cycle

game is just to easy and we can see server with group os 6 carnos, 8 deinos living together and other bad things

i don't care much about new playables when it's possible to sustain 4 deinos from 1 deino body and groups of 6 carnos being viable

[rancid raptor]

Cool. No.

So, here's what interesting with your examples. To me, at least.

The things you just mentioned, right?
Those things do not have any alternatives.. Opposed to an "opening body-animation"; which we already have a safer LMB-option for.
That's the difference. So, no, those works are not "a lot of resources for nothing" as much as your suggestion would be.

Thing with those works is that they will be new to the game. Your suggestion wouldn't be new at all, it's just an alternative to something we already have.

Also, I'd like to mention a couple of other things I found to be curious.
"i dont care about new playables", the game will quite literally die in not too many years - if the roster stays as it is. So, no, playables are very important and everyone else here very much disagrees with that statement
everyone wants megalania

The second thing is your mention of human work. That's a very unpopular opinion, and adding playable mercenaries will just make the game more mainstream. It will boost the playerbase, it's nothing but goodness for the game

"small animal work"
if small animal work is meaningless, why do we see so many people loving on troodon? or beipi?
or minmi?
or megalania?

megalania isn't exactly "small" but it's small compared to other dinos

the most important thing is not pvp grow cycle, the most importanting at the moment is variability

the roster is very small, there is not much to do. largest need is variability, and new things

Main point is that your examples do not correlate with your suggestion at all
You used future works as an example, which will be entirely new to the game

and compared it to your suggestion*, which will just be an alternative to an old mechanic

[swift atlas]

i said fit into "resource used that could be used for something better" doing a second option for something that already exist is exactly what you are saying

[rancid raptor]

yeah, that's what i'm saying
Doing a second option for something that already exists would be doing an old thing

But you compared that to humans, which will be entirely new to the game..

[swift atlas]

same as buck, you can buck and you can make tree collision drop Omni, same action, different approach

[rancid raptor]

lol okay no that's not the same at all and does not correlate with your suggestion

those are two entirely different mechanics, and the tree serves an entirely different purpose

bucking is to decrease their stamina, motivating them to get off of you

hitting them off on the tree is strictly to stun them, and hurt them

those are strategic things
You're comparing that to
LMB-biting a body / Animation for opening the body

[swift atlas]

this is to make it reach and avoid friendly fire in big groups or with big animals. not considering the work or time, because as i said, it can vary depending on peoples opinion

the game could have just buck, or just tree to drop utahs

[rancid raptor]

avoid friendly fire? that's the main reason?

is it the end of the world if you bite your friend accidentally?

you heal that off within a few minutes

if that's the main reasoning behind the animation, the animation should not even be considered

[swift atlas]

exactly, game should not heal that fast, tha is one of tha balancing issues i said

[rancid raptor]

ABSOLUTELY NOT

If the game had just buck, people would be forced to only buck - and not go for trees when their stam is low

If the game only had tree-hits, people would HAVE to get to a tree in order to get an omni off of them

[swift atlas]

youa re saying it because it exist now, but it could not

[rancid raptor]

It's not the same bro

dude no offense but at this point i think you're trolling me

good evening

[swift atlas]

you are trolling me

prob

expending this amount of time saying that an alternative way to get organs is useless

[swift atlas]

imagine if to open bodies to get organs you just have a animation to open the body? XD

[jagged jewel]

@tidal rose deino already can eat rotten meat

[barren zephyr]

I've seen someone talk about adding long necks to evrima, I just don't see how that's possible with the pea sized map that everybody is on

[tall hearth]

Gateway, the new map in development, has a bigger playable area than what we currently have on spiro.

Not only that, but devs have said something about potentially making new maps in the future besides gateway, so with that in mind it will work to have sauropods.

[barren zephyr]

I hope so, a bigger map would be way better, however on the trello they said they were planning a smaller map..

[tall hearth]

Gateway is actually smaller than the entirety of spiro, but its bigger than the playable area.

The playable area I'm referring to is the blue borders preventing players from exploring more of the map. Gateway it bigger than that, but smaller than the entire map itself.

[barren zephyr]

ah I see

[robust dome]

@limber hull I completely disagree and think this would bring the game in such an unbalanced state at least until we get new dinosaurs.
Carnos are overwhelmingly played and are all over the servers. And yet they already have the ability to cannibalise.
Thuss if you remove this ability from them, the carno population would gro through the roof since

1 a lot of people don't approach carnos as a carno bcs of that. If it was made otherwise then carnos would overpack (and I have seen a lot already do that so imagine without cannibalizing).

2 young carnos would be too hard to kill. They are very fast actually and when they reach like 60-70% they still have very good stamina while being able to run faster than most dinos... except carnos.

Although I do agree that your point kinda nerfs carno. But would buff it even harder

[icy lion]

That's part of the reason why he said his suggestion should wait until there's other predators in the ecosystem

[robust dome]

Which is also the reason why I mentionned it. But until something bigger than carno like allo things won't really change and tge problem of overpopulation will remain. And still we dont know

If carno is destined to be the fastest or at least in the top of fastest dinosaurs in the game. The problem of overpopulation will remain for too long

[barren crater]

Cannibalism makes Carnos population go through the roof already.
Also people already pack up with randoms anyway. Most Isle players don't actually actively cannibalise, but benefit from dead carno bodies that are around

If you remove carno from its own food source, it only really has teno, pachy, omni & growing stegos on its diet. You would not be able to support megapacks that easily unless you always attack teno herds

[limber hull]

@oblique creek i agree, but i find its more of an issue with carno being OP than teno being weak

teno is extremely versatile and capable atm, issue is it's completely overshadowed

[oblique creek]

That's true. If it was made to hunt things like omnis and young tenos that would be good but I feel like 1v1 a full grown teno should be able to throw down with a carno

[limber hull]

100% agreed

carno is simply too strong atm, it should be cautious around tenontos

not bulldozing them down without so much as a sweat

the charge simply shouldn't knock down tenos, it should only stun

[oblique creek]

It's honestly ridiculous lol

[sterile pivot]

Yeah, either carnos charge weight(not combat weight) should be reduced or tenos combat weight should be 1.85/1.9

[limber hull]

what is charge weight and combat weight?

also teno doesn't need a weight buff

[rare fractal]

It doesn't

Carno just has a massive range that it doesn't need

[icy lion]

I think they mean the CC thresholds

[sterile pivot]

Like you know how deinos grab weight is 1/2 its actual weight which is 8 tons
Thats what I meant. I kinda just went to POT terms though, sorry. Combat weight = Dino weight, Charge weight = maximum weight of the opposing dino to be knocked down

[sterile pivot]

Yeah ik reducing charge weight would be better, but id take either as long as it makes it so teno wont be knocked

[rare fractal]

I don't think altering teno's CC range changes anything, carno is already within it technically

[limber hull]

carno simply should knock down animals half its own wieght, not anything les than it

[sterile pivot]

Yeah like deino

[rare fractal]

Well...sorta like deino....

That's deino's 1 tap range xD

[oblique creek]

This would be an easy and effective solution

Still allows it to prey on omnis and smaller stuff but makes teno more dangerous without touching teno balance wise

Yet young ones will still be affected so that works pretty well

[tawdry oyster]

@oblique creek I think this is where migration comes into play, once it gets added, most of the time only specific dinos will be in a few areas to avoid being hunted like what you’ve stated, also I don’t think it’s a Teno issue rn but a Carno issue

[drifting rose]

@barren zephyr borrowing dinosaurs will do this in the furute like dryo,minmi,proto,and ava (well ava is a borrow stealer but you get the point)

[barren zephyr]

Oh really? Where did you hear about this? @drifting rose

[drifting rose]

its in their cocnepts

concepts*

and many people talk about it asking kissen or punch if borrowing is being worked on

[barren zephyr]

Ah ok nice

[limber hull]

yea, burrowing is a completely unique system coming

an entire plethora of animals will be capable of doing it

[barren zephyr]

I've seen burrowing being pushed but I didn't think this mechanic was part of their idea as well

[limber hull]

its always been

we just dont know when

[barren zephyr]

That's cool, thanks you two for letting me know. Ig the devs are busy working in other things atm

[drifting rose]

oof they are blury but just look up minmi,ava, or homalo concept they give u a general idea of how borrowing would work. also no prob and yes the devs push things that dont matter as much further back seeing as things more important like; UE5, new map, new dinos, and humans are seen as better to work on and with

[barren zephyr]

Yeah, can't wait for the new map

[drifting rose]

like how hyspi still needs its climbing ability and how deino needs its vertical lunge many of the dinos in the game are missing their abilites but they will come soon most likely after update 7 and during update 9 is when we may see dinos being worked on, seeing as elders is the last core mechanic they need to start working on the dinosaurs more and update 9 being when they will add more of the playble roster into the game

[barren zephyr]

Indeed

[loud anvil]

for this suggestion, kinda like a vaulting over small obstacles kinda thing? that'd be pretty cool yea
maybe not for every playable but certainly would make things feel smoother when running

[icy lion]

There's been 0 mention of burrows turning into spawn points

@barren zephyr What do you mean?

Take your time!

That the ptera isn't in the center of the cam while flying?

Well, why didn't you say so lol

When you say "work like" I was thinking of freelook and such

Np! It gets pretty annoying trying to look behind you while flying, I totally get what you mean

[icy lion]

@barren zephyr Luckily there's a lot of playables currently being worked on. Troodon is in QA, and beipi, galli, and cera will be soon after. Diablo's also in the process of getting animated

[barren zephyr]

that's nice to hear

[icy lion]

@barren zephyr Deinos can thrash, you just have to be on land

[barren zephyr]

??? I tried and it didn’t work

[icy lion]

Might've been too big of a corpse, then

It feels like deino's thrash limit is a bit low imo

[barren zephyr]

I just tried on a small corpse and it didn't work

[icy lion]

Are you in water? How did you try to do it?

[barren zephyr]

No I was on land

I grabbed it, clicked and shook my screen around

I held down click

[icy lion]

What were you trying to thrash?

[barren zephyr]

A baby carno

Nvm I had to shake my screen VERY hard

[icy lion]

Weird! I'll have to try and check that out then, that definitely sounds like it should've worked. You did everything right

Ah

Lol

[barren zephyr]

Why do I need to shake it THAT hard

That's unreasonable lmao

[hollow vault]

Thoughts on my suggestion?

Would be cool to see a battle worn trike or carno

[compact flare]

as long as it doesn’t mess with hitboxes then yeah completely fine with it

[proud coral]

I agree. As long as cosmetic stuff doesn't directly affect things like hitboxes, attacks, etc. then I say go for it. Though seeing a Trike with broken horns deal normal damage sounds a bit odd

[hollow vault]

I mean

It’s blunt damage

[swift atlas]

What will nerf carno is make the game harder. Increace juvs need for food, so they will need to move more and less AFK grow, reduce AI and increase growth time, it's just too easy to survive and grow.

It is not hard to see big groups of carnos, deinos and etc

[hollow vault]

Do you guys like my suggestion

[robust dome]

The only problem with those specific nesting grounds is that they inevitably attract too much attention and they wont be for nesting anymore

[hollow vault]

Maybe

[agile roost]

you hold left click and then shake your mouse

[hollow vault]

They will probably have that nesting buff

[agile roost]

you have to shake it pretty hard

[barren zephyr]

Yeah I explained how I did..

[agile roost]

ye

[limber hull]

@frozen agate the new map is literally a massive step forward in optimisation because it doesn't use the current garbage system that Spiro does that causes some of the massive frame drops

[frozen agate]

what are u talking about lmao. I literally have 10 fps to 40 max on medium settings

[limber hull]

you said they should stop working on the new map and work on optimisation

the new map is literally work on optimsation

its got superior rendering systems that eliminates a lot of the frame issues

[frozen agate]

It runs worse than 2 years ago when i started playing so idk where is the progress

[proud coral]

The progress is on the new map

Spiro is just kinda being left aside

[barren crater]

I live the tracking idea in some parts. Although Carno specifically tracking blood any bit well might be a bit much. I feel like if you escape Carnos line of sight, it should struggle to find you again. Kind of how it is now to a degree

Omni tracking steps well isn't what I really think of it. It should track blood well though

[limber hull]

i think there should be different types of tracking. Footprint tracking and bleed tracking

[barren crater]

Yeah

Bleeders tracking bleed well, but not steps.
So Rex for example can track both really well.
Carno not tracking either that well

Giga is said to be a great bleed tracker

[limber hull]

Carno should suck at both, omni should be good at tracking blood (as should most bleeders), cera could be great at tracking footprints, blood and corpses (considering it has a great sense of smell), deino is meh, since it has vibration sense

[barren crater]

Yep. I hope we get an overhaul to tracking soon or additions. Whatever works best

Been ages since they were useful

[amber sparrow]

What do I do if I’m stuck in a tree?😔

[icy lion]

Check the pinned messages in #evrima-na or #evrima-eu

[swift atlas]

i think the main issue is that tracking is basically useless rn. I would like to see a batter track system in future, maybe something like leave a smell behind if you touch bushes or tall grass, or if you stay long enough in the same place. So carnis could sniff it in close/mid distance. And improve the footprint visibility. Blood i believe is ok but would be good to have specific dinos to be a better blood tracker

so it's basically 3 things. New smell stuff for a different way to track preys/other carns instead of just pursue during hunt, improve footprint and add blood tracker levels.

[hallow umbra]

yeah, blood is fine, really useful for night hunting but you cannot track with the footprints as of rn

[swift atlas]

i believe the blood track level would require more work, if they don't want to make a new track system, footprint wound need to chage and stay for long to truly track someone

it should be more visible but i belive would require to take out that "blue" highlight

or else would be impossible to scape

[proven river]

The map that you currently have isn't the new one with better optimisation, that's why your fps is crap, it hasn't released yet

[barren zephyr]

@weak depot pretty sure that'll be an unofficial server option

[barren crater]

^ Yep, although it will be a mod.

[timid lily]

can someone help me with legacy servers

[weak depot]

Ahh alright thank you

[oblique crown]

@north viper You do know the dev who works on human structures does not make organic models right? in other words that means It has no effect on the progress of playables

[night idol]

Is the dev physically incapable to model organic models or something? So what if he is the designated human structures modeler, the point is that 99% of the community came to the isle for a cool dinosaur survival experience and nobody is getting that. Instead we are waiting upwards of 2 years for a new dinosaur and are getting humans added into the mix which nobody really cares about as the game is hardly finished in its current state for humans and human structures. It’s a complete waste of time and resources and it is affecting the progress of playables when he could be working on them instead of 3d modeling toilets and chairs

[limber hull]

oh my god you have no idea how development and skillsets work. No, he can't, because
A: That's not what he's hired/paid to do
B: It's not the skillset he came on board with.

Environmental artists, especially specialised ones (like VisualTech, who specialises specifically in human structures) cannot be expected to perform the same role as character artists, as these are entirely seperate roles and skillsets required. It's like asking for the concept artist to work more on fixing bugs, they can't, because they cannot program, as it isn't a part of their skillset or role.

The dinosaurs are being modelled by the people brought on board for that specific purpose, animated by the people brought on for animating, programmed by the people brought on for programming and tested by the people brought on for QA.

These roles are each unique people with unique skillsets and unique roles, they cannot do the work of another because it is not within their skills or roles within the studio to do so

[night idol]

So instead of putting money into developers whose skill set is based solely on modeling structures and VisualTech then invest more into those who are modeling and animating the playables? People want playables first, not human structures. They can be added later instead of wasting resources on making them now. I’m obviously not speaking for literally everyone in the community and if human structures are your fetish then that’s completely fine. But I would say I’m relatively speaking for the mass amount of the player base when I say that we would rather have money spent on playables development rather than human structures. Not to say they aren’t prioritizing one over the other, but human structures are not needed in the state of the game right now

They can do what they want with their money obviously, but it’s pointless the direction they are taking

[limber hull]

They aren't mutually exclusive, they have their animators and modellers (also, if you haven't noticed, they're literally hiring more animators atm). Resources are not being wasted on them, they play an integral part in the game's mechanics and even the new map, gateway.

Animators and modellers don't just appear out of thin air, they have to come on board themselves first, it's a matter of the right people coming to them. Not focusing on human structures now then forcing yourself to cram out a ton in a short period of time is also really weird and not a healthy dev cycle, especially if you intend for human structures to play a vital part in the game's development, which they do

[night idol]

I mean idk I’ve been following and playing this game since 2018 and it’s entire niche that made it popular was that it was the best dinosaur survival game experience you could achieve. Now it’s just another option in an ever growing list of other dinosaur games that I believe came as a result of this game slowing down and going off into a direction that nobody wants or cares about. If the devs intend for the game to be humans vs dinosaurs survival rpg land then whatever go ahead. But that’s not what the community wants. Again, I’m not speaking for everyone, but I would say that it’s just a matter of what the devs want versus what the community wants

If they intend for something to be a certain way then I don’t think there’s much that can be done about it though

[limber hull]

I personally really like the human stuff, and know a good amount of friends who really don't care about The Isle besides the human stuff. Humans were always a plan for the game, it's not really fair to argue it's a "devs vs community" thing when the community started from a bunch of people who wanted to play as both humans and dinosaurs (well actually, the game originally never intended to have any playable dinosaurs, it was the community that made that happen, then also the community that convinced them to make herbivores playable afterwards).

People WANT human stuff, people care about human stuff, it's a huge part of what the game's identity is and will be, and the devs have never once expressed otherwise, they have always said this is the plan. If it were just another dinosaur game and nothing else, it wouldn't have much going on when compared to stuff like PoT or BoB, who are also just exclusively dino-based.

The whole "playable dino" thing was never in the original plans for the game, the game was always primarily human-focused, it was the community that made the game take the path of playable dinos, but humans never once left the plans and have been in the game's core identity since the very beginning

[night idol]

I don’t think that humans were ever a key part of the “identity” of the game. If we’re looking at it from how the game has actually been played throughout the years of development, humans never played a huge part in the actual gameplay identity of the game itself. They were only dropped in every once in a while as a buggy hardly playable character that everyone would laugh at and mess around on. If you asked anybody who has ever played the isle today how they would describe the game I highly doubt they would even mention the existence of humans ever being a part of the game at all.

[limber hull]

they literally were, since the start of the game, they were advertised as the key selling point, the development changed once the community showed a great deal of interest in the dinosaur playables, so they needed to figure out how humans would be implemented in this newer style of game (considering it was meant to be PvE with human players vs dino AI). If you look at the first ever pitches and advertisements for the game, it's ALWAYS had humans

they added the humans as a rough testing ground of how they would work/interact with the environment, not as a completed feature, hence the "buggy hardly playable" state

because they weren't even supposed to be nearly done, just a test of how they would work when added

here's group of images from the kickstarter showing off human structures, human classes and the human-created dinosaur strain variants

(very outdated, mind you, but it proves the point that the humans have always been a part of it)

[night idol]

i think what you mean is that humans have been a part of the game's identity for the developers, not the community for the most part. i personally found this game on steam and nothing on the steam page mentions anything about humans whatsoever. and i feel like i speak for the majority of the players in that they were either recommended by someone else to play this game or that they found it on one of the more popular platforms such as steam or a social media platform like youtube, twitch, etc. again, this just reiterates the fact that its more of what the developers intend versus what the community wants and i know there are people who may have found this off kickstarter or were inspired to buy it because of what they saw planned for humans, but if they want to make the majority of the community happier they shouldnt focus on humans, its not what most people bought this game for. but they can do whatever they want, its their game and their money. im just agreeing that its not what most of the community wants and it shouldnt be focused on as of right now. maybe when they do add humans and human structures and that entire element to the game it will be awesome and really cool/unique. but as of right now, the game is not ready for it and those resources spent on human structures should be put elsewhere for now.

(elsewhere meaning playables)

[limber hull]

they aren't even focusing on humans atm, they just put them out for testing on unofficials, but they aren't the focus

[night idol]

they arent the focus, but theyre still spending money on getting them made and pushed out. and i get what you mean by it being a bad dev cycle to shove it all out last second, but whose to say that they will have to do that in the first place?

[limber hull]

as for the human structures, they play a big part in the design, layout and exploration of the new map, Gateway, and play a necessary part in the map's design. Several of these structures directly impact the map and permit different dinosaurs to interact with them in unique ways, permitting certain animals to survive and improvise using these structures to their advantage (i should know, i've played on the new map, and while many of the structures were sealed off to prevent leaks, the ones that were there have massive potential for allowing certain animals to thrive in certain areas)

for example, the tram line allowing dinosaurs to take a high road, or providing safe perches for flying animals, letting animals travel across them to evade potential threats down below, with the limitation that falling in a lot of places could result in death, and you can only go forwards and back on the tram

not to mention the plans to create an indepth underground system of tunnels that allow players to traverse discretely through the island

[night idol]

the new map is cool and all, but whats the point of having a new map when theres hardly any playables and theyre being pushed out at such a constipated rate? maybe allocating the resources from human structures, human stuff wouldnt have the biggest impact on playables being made faster. but its still something nonetheless.

[limber hull]

the current map is horrible and can barely support our current playables well, let alone a brand new roster?

[night idol]

what do you mean by it cant support the current playables well?

[rare fractal]

This is such an asinine discussion...the idea that the communities mental image of the game excludes humans is totally irrelevant when that's an inevitability when the game has supported dino playables for years...

That doesn't mean that perspective is all that valuable...

Like if I was a chef who was known for my amazing cakes...then decided to start making pizzas...would those pizzas be bad because that's not what I'm known for?

Or can we just have both if they're made well and coalesce...

[rare fractal]

Well for one, the new map is meant to be long term, so supporting human structures is integral to that...plus the gameplay of the dinosaurs will universally increase in value because of the new maps design and assets for a plethora of reasons, so naturally human asset devs would be necessary for that

[night idol]

that comparison you used cant be applied to the isle at all. i dont see how the point of playables being made at such a slow rate and the irrelevance of humans being worked on at the moment can be applied to a cake baker making pizzas

sure they can be good

[rare fractal]

What makes humans irrelevant

How can they be irrelevant if they're designed to be relevant and executed successfully

[limber hull]

in the current map, aquatics have literally nothing besides the same bland rivers, so there goes the viability of animals like beipi, bary and sucho

there's 4 total biomes (plains, swamp, coastal and jungle, the latter two no one wants to visit), so herrera will rarely see anything of interest because it's a jungle hunter with jungles no one likes

there's literally no way a migration system can work because the whole map is so same-sy, so any animal built around that system isn't going to be doing much

nesting grounds are entirely useless, under-utilised and out of the way, so stuff like gallimimus and oviraptor aren't going to see much of their egg-stealing habits

not even mentioning the horrid optimisation spiro has that gateway addresses, nor the fact that only centre is really viable as a place to exist and becomes an entire bloodbath where survival is secondary to just running at the next dino you see

[rare fractal]

Also the upgrade to UE5 is borderline absolutely necessary for the game moving forward

[limber hull]

and with carno being the way it is, and the massive focus on specifically plains and nothing but plains, have fun playing cera or magy knowing that the only place you can exist will result in a swift death from the mouth on legs

[rare fractal]

Plains being so popular because it's the biome where not only you can see the most, but where the games lighting looks the best, and where most of the animals are designed to exist in

Which unfortunately renders 90% of the trafficked surface area of the map, plains

[limber hull]

it's also because it is 50% of the map and isn't horrible like Spiro's jungles

[rare fractal]

Mhm

[limber hull]

Gateway actually aims to address the horrid jungles, and in my experience, succeeds by creating paths for traffic to follow and not get lost, while also permitting density for ambushes, while not to the absurdity of Spiro

[night idol]

being "designed to be relevant and executed successfully" doesnt mean it is a necessity to be worked on at this moment when theres hardly any current playable dinosaurs and the game itself is messy and uncomplete at its core. humans are not at the core of the games gameplay and have never been a part of what affects the current game itself. they simply have structures built everywhere that just make the map look cooler

everyone has their opinions on the relevance of humans in this game but i feel like it has no relevancy in its current state

[limber hull]

which is why they aren't the focus atm

[night idol]

maybe later in development it will be but not rn

[night idol]

yes but theyre still wasting money on it that could be spent on the games playables and playability itself

[limber hull]

they aren't though

[rare fractal]

What about the low count of playable dinosaurs makes humans not a priority?
Also humans aren't currently within the core of the gameplay because they don't exist within the gameplay yet, that is to be seen.
Also also...it's a strange criticism to make of the game currently when so many dinos are in active development rn

[limber hull]

they're literally working on playables atm. I can list off the playables we know they're working on right now if you want

[rare fractal]

Like I don't think it makes any sense to even HAVE a stance on whether humans are relevant to the game or not when they don't even exist in the gameplay yet

[night idol]

they are literally spending money on designers and modelers for humans and human structures

[limber hull]

Troodon, beipi, cera, galli, diablo

[rare fractal]

They're relevant by virtue of being a target currently

[limber hull]

So what?

"You're fired because we are focusing on dinos right now but please come back when we change our minds" is a lot dumber than "let's get this human stuff worked on in the background so we don't have to stress and overwork on it later"

[night idol]

active development should not warrant a 2 year time spent to release one single playable dinosaur

clearly resources arent being spent well

if its taking that long

[rare fractal]

Why not?
That also entirely disregards all the development on other elements of the game that directly make dino gameplay better

Like yes it's a long time for a live service game ofc

But that's not what this is....

[limber hull]

Or maybe they aren't prioritising playables since a lack of proper mechanics to back them up and a horrible map tend to make the whole thing rather redundant

Chucking out playables to satisfy people isn't the priority atm

It's cleaning up the actual glaring issues

[rare fractal]

Making a foundation for the game to support playables is far more important than producing more playables

[night idol]

the devs can do what they want with the game, but the fact that its been slowing down much more recently is showing something is wrong. im sure human structures and them working on human stuff isnt the prime factor behind it, but its still affecting it as they are spending money on it, thus wasting time

[limber hull]

They could throw in Beipi really soon if they cracked down on it. Would not be hard. The experience would be horrible due to the lack of any aquatic foliage and a terribly designed water ecosystem on Spiro, but it'd be a new playable

They could chuck in Troodon, ignoring the need to test and balance venom. Could make it either a complete menace to the entire island or entirely useless, but hey, new playable

[rare fractal]

Money is expressly not a hinderance, the quality of the devs they hire is, which is why hiring new devs rarely occurs as the game has a history with faulty devs...
The devs won't even accept donations at this point

[rare fractal]

It'd get the hypsi treatment of having no purpose and no playable area designed for it, only slightly better because it has more unique movement

But at that point it's a less viable aquatic dryo

[limber hull]

But it's a new playable

[rare fractal]

Screw gateway and UE5, gimme penguin

[limber hull]

Unless you're one of those people who has that weird elitist thing where "smalls don't count because I don't like them"

And you have like a "you must be this tall to be worth liking" mindset

[rare fractal]

Us megalania fans breaking the mold

Definition of short man syndrome

[limber hull]

But that's basically indicative of people who only want a cool new dinosaur toy to clash with their other dinosaur toys

Everything needs to fight everything else on the island otherwise it's not enjoyable

[rare fractal]

I just think that fundamentally, if you can universally enhance the gameplay of all playables concurrently with 1 or 2 development choices as opposed to producing another class to inject into the meta, why wouldn't you choose the former

Like the complaints I most often hear about the game are in this order:
1: Performance is Terrible
2: Balance is in shambles
3: The Map is awful
4: There isn't enough to do

[limber hull]

For example, it's very obvious that some people want cera, not for the niche it provides or the gameplay that's been presented as a defensive scavenger bully, but rather to run into carnos to see who wins

[rare fractal]

You can solve 3 of these issues by just focusing on an engine upgrade and a new map

[limber hull]

Yep

[rare fractal]

Well unfortunately the current state of the game makes disliking carno ubiquitous...which leads to a huge call for "spite balancing" where X playable doesn't deserve to have fun because it's oppressive currently

Instead of just making everything entertaining and balanced

[limber hull]

I love spite balancing

[rare fractal]

The entirety of deino vs stego since U3

[limber hull]

Just "nerf this to oblivion because it was OP once and deserves to be underpowered"

[limber hull]

True

I do like the people who profess that the devs should "listen to the community when making balance changes" when 95% of the time the community's suggestions for balance changes are utter trash lol

Either fuelled by spite for an animal or complete fixation on their main character syndrome with another animal

Or both

[rare fractal]

Mhm, and unfortunately that lumps in the people in the community that actually don't have terrible ideas into that binary model, you either listen to the community or you're ignoring it in the eyes of the masses

[limber hull]

I'm pretty sure U4 was mostly community-based balance changes that people asked for, then IMMEDIATELY hated once they came out because, shocker, they weren't balanced at all

[rare fractal]

Like I know a lot of people just refuse to do this but, if you haven't really played all of the animals per patch it's REALLY hard to identify when something is actually imbalanced or not, because oftentimes it's a playstyle shift moreso than something getting hard nerfed

Like I used to despise the dryo balance changes but they're growing on me in a niche sense, still think it's grossly undertuned but I want it to stay in the roll it's in, which isn't something I would've said at the beginning of the patch

[limber hull]

No, it was U5, the one where they "fixed" omniraptor, along with giving the omni mains their long-awaited buffs and then made it into a God

[rare fractal]

Ironically it didn't even get THAT buffed, omni was always strong, but was held back by inconsistency

Then the rollback when it was understood that omni was busted happened, alongside mechanical buffs to it's competitors...and now it's the poor underdog that needs buffs

The isle balancing ouroboros condensed

[oblique crown]

And I did not include many other mechanics in game

[limber hull]

@meager barn gateway will actually be adding the migration system, meaning that you'll be moving to one main area for a lot of nutrients, rather than travelling all over to very specific locales for specific nutrients

its also confirmed that animals aren't required to go to migration zones and can still seek food elsewhere

[meager barn]

one main area? so there will be one hotspot with all the foods for all species

[limber hull]

No

Certain animals have certain migration paths

Some may intersect

But it won't be every animal moving the same path

[meager barn]

;_;

I just want freedom like in legacy, could live whereever u wanted :I

[limber hull]

It wouldn't make much sense for a forest-dweller to be forced to migrate out to plains

Wouldn't be very fair either

[meager barn]

im not an actor, im a gamer bruh

[limber hull]

Okay but I don't want to bring my forest-dwelling animal out to get obliterated by the plains-dwelling carno

Also, EVRIMA is a lot more complex than legacy, niches are a lot more indepth and defined

[meager barn]

you dont have to, but I literally cant because the diets dont allow it

I mean you could live off of grazing but thats probably nobodys plan

[barren crater]

Freedom in that regards has always been a big problem with The Isle. Apart from 2 hotspots where action happened, you literally couldn't find any players. Big maps with no way to funnel players to an area is bad design.

Which is why there was AI for carnivores that spawned on them.

Without that, a lot of carnivores would die

[swift atlas]

the point is, food should not be infinity at any place and make different species move separately will help a bit on mixpack/overpack

does not make sense to any specie be possible to survive in any place, this is not a survival and simulation game.

legacy led players to have a wrong vision of what this game should be since beginning

[meager barn]

okay, what is it then?

[swift atlas]

this will just lead the game to more and more hotspots, making the rest of the map useless, just like is it today. Migration will bring a cycle to the map and make everything useful

[meager barn]

nonono I meant u saying its not a survival or simulation game

[lapis swallow]

I am honestly excited for migration, because then we will be able to see the whole map without ruining our diets (because you will eventually travel there).

[meager barn]

and bro, there will always be hotspots in a free roam

[lapis swallow]

With migration that there will be only temporary hotspots

[swift atlas]

but they will change, and there are the path to reach new zones of the migration. different species going to different places, so you will find life out of the same place like it is today

[limber hull]

i like how migration is described, because you CAN find food outside the migration zones, but its more scarce, giving you the agency of choice. Avoid the carnivores flocking the migrating herbivores and take the food away from the migration spot, or risk starvation/heavy competition with other herbivores who also want to avoid the migrations

[swift atlas]

and you will be able to lone wolf if you want, but if a reaaally low amount of food available that will end too

[limber hull]

A far greater opportunity for fun and engaging situations no matter what you do

[swift atlas]

and i hope they bring a more complex system of food spawn for herbs, that will truly end

[limber hull]

@swift atlas i cannot downvote but i so heavily disagree with your concept. The idea of damage, health and stamina being modified so easily via diets would make combat utterly horrid, and would make this more akin to BoB or PoT

devs have also said it's straightup not happening

we aren't getting weight/damage modifiers with diets

[swift atlas]

the current diet doesn't have much impact, doesn't pose any challenges and is more like going to the supermarket, choosing what to eat than truly struggling to survive.

and i don't think having features that can seems with other survival game is something bad

BoB has a good few systems

and, the sustain and survivability of the current state of the game is just completely nonsense, starve is not a issue, big animals living from AI on a MMO game

[limber hull]

so your solution to this is to make it that AI can now give them a damage buff?

all this does is make metas in a game that REALLY doesn't need metas

[swift atlas]

no, i think AI should not feed adults animal

[swift atlas]

the game has a meta already

[limber hull]

it also makes nutrients heavily favoured towards combat animals, while being nearly entirely useless for non-combat animals

[swift atlas]

as i said, sustain and survivability of the game is BROKEN

[limber hull]

which i don't think is at all fair

[swift atlas]

there is no survival in evrima, is PVP with growth

[limber hull]

so rather than suggesting any survival, you just want to make it more PvP?

got it

except now I can't tell how much damage my opponent is going to do

you realise how much of an utter balancing nightmare this would be, right?

omniraptors increasing weight to pin pachies, stegos increasing damage to obliterate animals even faster

[swift atlas]

balance is going to be a issue, always. The point is, people will worry more about it, and we need more than the current health system, where you sit and wait and it's all good. The current S diet makes you regen a Deino in a few minutes and you go back to combat. Having degrees on stats, and maybe visual appearances that would lead to a bad/good diet target, you know if it a good or bad idea + the wounds and new health system would discourage people that just wanna kill everything, because you would take care of wounds if receive a amount of dmg (i have a idea for it too)

[limber hull]

also

diet options (like eat bones or fish) and other stuff should be related to Perks, and not to diet.

the hell is ptera supposed to do if it doesn't have the perk to eat its main food source

[swift atlas]

ptera wound not have a perk that it does not need

[limber hull]

what

[swift atlas]

you are confusing animal design with perks

[limber hull]

you said eating fish should be related to perks

i am quite literally paraphrasing you

[swift atlas]

you know we'll have strains, right? is there any rule making a monster?

[limber hull]

i dont know what strains have to do with ptera eating fish

[swift atlas]

you could make something that DOES NOT eat fish, eat it

and it's a example

[limber hull]

diets should not affect combat, unless you have a REALLY bad diet

[swift atlas]

really bad diet is a meme

[limber hull]

the idea that you could buff damage or weight would destroy any form of balance

[swift atlas]

that basically does not exist

[swift atlas]

it can be to reach default too, the buff is a plus

even so, it would impact, because would not be easy to keep the 100% stats

same effect

or just bad effect if go over 100%

[limber hull]

i've suggested a way for it to exist (for carnivores). Make nutrients come from organs only, make it that the more food you have in your stomach, the slower your nutrients decay

Keep food up, keep nutrients up, start getting hungry, lose nutrients quickly

[swift atlas]

this is survivability balance, and it's a lot important, but diet is no impactful and, and not only for Carnis

same for herbs, ok, you need to move, but you food don't run from you

[limber hull]

diet is as impactful as it reasonably can be

making it impact weight and damage is something the devs already rejected

same with perks doing such a thing

because of the very obvious implications for balance

[swift atlas]

perks will be a diet 2 no impactful thing, this is just poor

IF balance was a current thing

[limber hull]

not everything needs to centre around combat

[swift atlas]

i would agreebut we have NO BALANCE

[limber hull]

don't use the current gamestate as a scapegoat for adding things that even further damage an already shoddy balance state

[icy lion]

So why make it worse?

Why not fix/improve the current state?

[swift atlas]

it wont be worse with the game changes to a way survival will starts to matter, because right now everyone talks about combat because it's the only thing matter

[limber hull]

i personally want to see the game deviate further from focus on combat mechanics and more to actual survival mechanics. Perks should diversify niches, environments, diets and survival strategies, not "haha 15% damage increase to my carno"

[icy lion]

The devs have already said they're completely against perks and diets that increase health and damage

[swift atlas]

as I said, considering a bunch of changes on survivability, i would like to see changes on diet, but just before the survival balance

[icy lion]

And giving diets weight+health boosts just promotes that mindset

[limber hull]

^

[swift atlas]

even so they will create strains that will make you become a monster that can kill anything

[limber hull]

Diets buffing combat encourages a complete combat mindset

Nothing but PvP bloodlust brain

[cyan flame]

I don't think the strains are comparable to normal gameplay though.

[icy lion]

Which will be extremely difficult to get, temporary, and only for certain species

[swift atlas]

not if you don't each that easily, and with a heavy cost. And i said that that could be a plus reaching over 100%, it could be just to maintain the default status

[limber hull]

So... Elder, but not elder?

[icy lion]

Diets, for all intents and purposes, are permanent. It's not difficult to maintain the same one once you have it

[limber hull]

That seems to be what you're suggesting here

[swift atlas]

make diet and survival more hard, and you would have the same balance as they expect from strains. Make it really hard

[limber hull]

More weight, damage at the cost of other stats and hefty drawbacks? That's elder

[icy lion]

Making it harder should be the baseline. You don't need to give people health and damage buffs to compensate for that difficulty