general-feedback-discussion

[echo tiger]

Its smaller, probably faster and thats it.

[limber hull]

Not like anything else on this roster is going to be your elusive roster repairer

[echo tiger]

oh and it has venom

Which will either be bleed 2 or useless

[low canopy]

its a pack animal that punches up using numbers and damage over time

[coarse stump]

If its vemon ends up sucking, it might aswell just be a sub utah tbh

[limber hull]

Venom, night vision, mimicry, doesn't rely on bleed

[urban flax]

Cera will
Cuz it's gonna 1v1 stegos with ease

[echo tiger]

Hot take.

[limber hull]

oh i forgot about the unstoppable cera lmao

[coarse stump]

Cerato would help immensly on the land based roster, but aight

[limber hull]

can't wait for it to kill every carno, stego and deino like it should

[urban flax]

The almighty cera

[limber hull]

because that's totally what it's going to do

and not just get bodied by all three of those animals

[coarse stump]

I never said that lol

Its for against carno

[limber hull]

i never said you did lol

[low canopy]

cant wait for most to just spam cera cuz they've been forced to play carno for 2 years straight

[echo tiger]

Venom as i said will either be bleed 2 or suck
NV extension is cool but at that point just play dilo when it's out.
Mimicry isnt even confirmed for it anymore

It has a pounce for whatever reason.

[limber hull]

against carno, it's probably not great either tbh

[urban flax]

THE CERATOSAURUS curbstomps the carno

[coarse stump]

It wont do shet to deino and stego

Thats obvious

[limber hull]

cera is an alternative to a carno, not a solution to it

[echo tiger]

what we need is triceratops.

THE ULTIMATE DEFENSIVE HERBIVORE.

[limber hull]

the most it'll do against carnos is give its players to a different animal with a different playstyle

[urban flax]

What we need is the rest of the goddamn mechanics
And hoomans

[coarse stump]

Which why not have that rather than a lesser utah, why not an actual competitor to carno

[low canopy]

ceratosaurus is corpse bully, therefore it needs to be able to facetank stego

[echo tiger]

what.

[limber hull]

me want hoomans

[coarse stump]

Delivery chimps

[echo tiger]

Humans destroy the ecosystem even more btw. just as a FYI

unless they're the flashlight humans we have now, then it'll just be a funny le prank

punch deinos

[urban flax]

Hence we need them soon. You can't balance an ecosystem that's gonna acount for humans without the humans

[limber hull]

it's not really a competitor tho. Carno is faster, bigger, stronger and is a more active hunter than ceratosaurus. Cerato's main mechanics are eating gross food and smelling gross food a long way away

It'll be defensive primarily to protect its meal but I doubt it's thinning out any carno numbers

[coarse stump]

Cera would need to be able to overpower carno if it is suppost to be a corpse bully

[low canopy]

hopefully they add dumpsters in merc bases that cera can access

[echo tiger]

But when are they adding baby merc growth?

[coarse stump]

Which i dont see a problem with, its more of a mulky guy than carno

[urban flax]

It's already in

[echo tiger]

time to become a toddler and dual wield AR-15's

[coarse stump]

Gaming

[echo tiger]

the recoil impulse alone would break my arm, let alone kill a utah

but thats ok. i have an IFAK

[coarse stump]

Here have a med kit

[echo tiger]

Eitherway humans are being pushed too early. Shoulda pushed tribals first then the actual mercs

Cause atleast then you dont completely brick the entire ecosystem.

[urban flax]

You cannot break the ecosystem when there is no ecosystem to break

[echo tiger]

True

[coarse stump]

[urban flax]

And that's why they're pushing humans so soon

[echo tiger]

I just worry how humans translate to dinosaur progression

[limber hull]

i wanna play humans

gonna be fun

make them as weak as possible pls thank u

[urban flax]

Like every other survival game ?

[echo tiger]

I dont wanna die to a human to have 6 hours gone instantly

[urban flax]

This is already what happens when you die to a deino

[echo tiger]

True. But thats why i only drink at south and avoid water.

I cant exactly avoid .556 rounds

[echo tiger]

My main point being is that this game is already a monstrous time-sink. I worry that people wont play the game at that point or just be exclusively humans

[coarse stump]

The humans STOMPS the competition

[echo tiger]

Cause lord forbid it's fun to shoot stuff, but im just thinking of the ramifications of what that'll do to a player, many people will prolly quit depending on how it's implemented.

[urban flax]

Aaaaand we're gone into the asumption teritory

[echo tiger]

We have indeed.

[urban flax]

I'm not having the exact same conversation about humans for the tenth time

[echo tiger]

Well dont, but i'll hold my opinion on the fact that dumping 6 hours to grow an apex only to be dumpstered by .556 isn't fun gameplay.

[urban flax]

I didn't say otherwise

[echo tiger]

They'd have to make dinos tankier or something but then it's just PC

i doubt thats the realism this team is going for

[urban flax]

I doubt the team is going for realism at all

[echo tiger]

I mean they've flopped back and forth on realism for a while now so

Who knows at this point.

[urban flax]

For what I've seen they've always been pretty consistent with the fact their game isn't realistic and isn't meant to be

[echo tiger]

I mean they want a realistic utah, they've got a realistic carno and pteranodon for the most part.

I'd say its a pretty pertenant design philosophy

[urban flax]

Graphics wise

[echo tiger]

Well not just that but with animations and such

and gameplay to an extent

[urban flax]

Then Doom Eternal must be a very realistic game

[urban flax]

There's nothing realistic in either carno or ptera gameplay

[echo tiger]

Ptera flying isnt realistic then?

[urban flax]

no
Not the way it does

[echo tiger]

[uneven mist]

Mostly everything in our current roster is unrealistic, teno’s design or that it uses its tail as an attack the way it does for example

Hypsi’s charge jump, carnos charge, ptera’s skim and so on

[viral finch]

amen

why people ask for this?. The game do notifies me when restart is coming

[viral finch]

or any ceratopsian honestly

[uneven mist]

Dibble

[viral finch]

I think there is already many teropods. Trooddon should be later.
But the devs agrees with this idea.
I wish they add ankys or ceratopsians

Megalania will be very awesome tho. Troodon will surely bother stegos a lot with venom at least

[uneven mist]

Don’t think troodon wil do anything to a stego, maybe a pretty huge pack but I see dilo or Utah being mostly stego killers but dilo would prob have it harder

[viral finch]

according to kissen Dilo will drug your display I think. ("affect your mind")

i hope troddon has feathers, to vary the roster.

[limber hull]

it wont

we've seen its model already, no feathers

[viral finch]

oh...

[uneven mist]

Yeah but dilo would need to get close and prob won’t be faster or as agile as Omni and lacks a pounce so the best option would be to hunt a stego in the dark (that’s when it’s venom also works)

[viral finch]

bunch of lizards hehe

[limber hull]

they look like this

[viral finch]

seems like drio and utah had a baby

but thank for the picture

[viral finch]

that is what i said, even i still have no clue what she ment. I assume screen display

[limber hull]

dilo is confirmed to cause hallucinations at night

you see things that aren't there

[viral finch]

or don't see at all maybe. Either way will be cool

and is enoug to troll stego

[limber hull]

a dilo would just get swatted and die to a stego lmao

[viral finch]

not a smart choice i suppose , of course. alone

stegos are easy or not viable at all

stego players are very confident and make mistakes very often

At least what i have seen as a deino,

[limber hull]

i feel like out of every animal in the roster atm, stego is the worst to compare to dilo lmao

[viral finch]

but i have seen utah take them alone. But bad stegos

[uneven mist]

Yeah dilo prob won’t have a good time agains a stego or prob even teno if they lack the numbers, I see Utah being better off killing stegos and maybe troodons for teno

[viral finch]

it doesn't have to beat stego at all. but surely can anoy him

[limber hull]

a hypsi can annoy a stego, it's not a particularly impressive feat

[viral finch]

hipsy has no porpose in the game

imo

you pick him and its already adult

[urban flax]

food

[viral finch]

is not fun for me, as the only goal i see here is growing, then trolling around being adult. but growing is the funest part to me

or hunting

[urban flax]

Then hypsi isn't made for you

[limber hull]

^

[viral finch]

is good to know is made for somebody at least. I do have seen many.

I remember why i don't pick him. I only see grass. lol. it's the cam thing. I hope they change it

[uneven mist]

@full pewter mega wil have venom don’t worry

[full pewter]

Thank goodness, didn’t know what the plans were and wanted to throw out some ideas

[uneven mist]

Yeah (although I don’t like septic bite in general)

[full pewter]

I’ll accept it for gameplay sake in cerato since that’s what it seems the devs are going for. It’ll probably be more useful for defense than actual hunting assuming it has to actually charge from the looks of it, correct me if I’m wrong. At least that shows that septic bites are inadequate for hunting like irl

[uneven mist]

The reasion I don’t like it is because it’s kinda lame, I’d rather give it a stam grab that could be used for both defensively and offensively but mostly defensive and if septic bite cera wil just get septic bite why not mega or rex or other scavengers. A stam grab would make more sense since many animals rely on stam to fight, making an animal that can remove stam would make things like carno think twice before engaging the cerato

[full pewter]

Why not both?

[uneven mist]

And plus’s no animal uses “septic bite” to hunt

[uneven mist]

Septic bite just seems like bootleg venom to me

[full pewter]

I think it’ll function more like throwing up in gameplay, like what happens when you overeat. You don’t die from one bite but you’ll loose some hunger and nutrients as a consequence for being careless

[zealous stone]

I'm fine with septic bites as long as they make it so throwing up won't animation lock you.

Or at the very least they warn you a few seconds ahead so you don't try to bite someone only to throw up and get animation locked right in front of them

[gritty terrace]

@echo tiger besides the night vision I 100% agree

[echo tiger]

I was more pointing that NV was better in legacy and then they changed it back to a legacy-esque style of NV

[echo tiger]

But ye, devs flip flop around too often.

[gritty terrace]

Ahh got it

I am glad they ended up nailing the night vision

[full pewter]

I would hope that it just doesn’t happen within the fight, but rather later on. Getting sick instantly doesn’t make sense

[uneven mist]

The only redesign I’d give magy would be to go more crazy with the osteroderms, especially on its tail

Make it look like this

And give it a little bigger legs

[hasty dagger]

Make the elder model the base model

Gives a much better armored titanosaur impression

[uneven mist]

Yeah and that to, especially the shoulder osteroderms

@plush vault every playable wil be available

[plush vault]

Okay, thank you!

[sudden hinge]

@worn kraken no reason to make actual stat changes for dimorphism literally just make males and females have like different physical things no stat changes

[echo tiger]

Im glad too, NV was f---ed back then

[sonic dragon]

yeah.. females already have one less colour palette last thing you need is even less incentive to play them cause theyre weaker

[sudden hinge]

Exactly physically differences like longer horns enlarged throat pouches stuff like that which is just cosmetic is fine any stat changes is just weird

[proud coral]

Stat changes based on gender are how you get metas

Like META metas. The bad ones.

[faint folio]

Yup. Plus this game already has a bloated roster; the last thing we need is effectively doubling the roster size. And depending on species, certain builds would be way harder than others-- Utah would be mostly female because they rely on dodging attacks and pounce, whereas carno would be mostly male because they rely on bite force

So... Yeah. Stat changes on gender are generally bad

[echo tiger]

The colour palette thing often works in the females favour though, they blend in alot more.

[barren zephyr]

WHAT IN THE ARK

[zealous stone]

On paper it's not impossible to introduce different stats based on sex without throwing off balance, but it would be difficult. I feel like it could've been done had the game been designed with that in mind from the start, but it wasn't, so better not to go try that.

The only way a roster as large as the one planned can work is if every member is heavily specialized in terms of playstyle, but in order to make gender stat differences work, you need to give them both distinct roles, which would limit roster size.

It would be cool to see in an animal survival game, but not the Isle, it just doesn't fit.

[opal jay]

to the person that suggested a #memes channel. just no

[worn kraken]

Well, then there would be absolutely no point in adding dimorphism other than aesthetic

[limber hull]

That's the point

The dimorphism is aesthetic

It allows you to tell between a male and female animal, that's all it's meant to do

[sudden hinge]

Yup and that’s completely fine

[worn kraken]

Yes, I know that literally it’s aesthetic, but this is just one of the points of my message. I was also trying to understand if a slight variation in gender stats could have worked, but probably it wouldn’t

[uneven mist]

@past kindle look at the right where it says official, click that and change to unofficial if you want then press refresh

[sudden hinge]

It wouldn’t

[naive shale]

Whats with the utahs pounce now? it teleports them to the side if they even graze the hitbox? ive been playing carno, had a utah dead to rights in a charge and they pounced my head and teleported to my side

[faint folio]

It's a little broken atm. Lots of people have brought it up in feedback

[naive shale]

glad its not just me then

[faint folio]

Yeah, it's not just you. I kinda assume it'll be tweaked in future updates as right now it does a LOT of bleed for how easy it is

[naive shale]

i certainly hope so , i mean its like having auto aim lol

[faint folio]

@trim mauve the map isn't what makes deino easy to grow. The fish spawns are. You want to encourage canni behavior? Reduce fish spawns and watch chaos commence as Crocs HAVE to canni when there's a slow day at the drinking spot

That would also force more land croc-age as Crocs have to go scavenge

[trim mauve]

But the amount of rivers are still a downside to the maps. That is another solution but I was thinking of something that will actually make better changes for both the map and deino

[faint folio]

The only issue with disconnected lakes, etc is they have to be close enough to other water sources that an adult deino can walk there without dehydrating because they've got terrible water retention. That was (from what I heard) the reason that oasis didn't work-- it was too far to pond hop so it was basically guaranteed croc free, so everyone drank there with 0 chance of death by croc

[trim mauve]

and things would still be forced to drink making food still easy to get

[echo tiger]

Changed my suggestion a little bit.

[faint folio]

More than the amount of rivers being a downside to the map, I almost feel like they just need to make the rivers we have make sense. The current river placement doesn't really make sense in terms of realism (water always flows downhill, and rarely splits into 2 equal sized downstream branches, and it's also kinda terrible for both deino travel (wanna go SE-NW? Hope you've got an hour) and also for navigation of other playables

[echo tiger]

Deltas would be more interesting than isolated rivers tbh.

We are meant to be getting an ocean biome afterall.

[trim mauve]

O fo sure

[faint folio]

It would almost be better to have one branching river system than dumps into only 1 Beach (maybe with the swamp being more of an estuary ecosystem, which would support river deltas) and then have a few disconnected lakes or stock tanks within walking distance (so you don't have any aquatic safe areas)

[echo tiger]

I mean for isolated lakes you can add the mechanic i suggested where people can just drink and empty sources of water, water being infinite is dumb.

It actually forces people to look around and search for water sources instead of going south and drinking at zerg pond

or the remnants of zerg pond.

[gritty terrace]

@viral finch the devs have said that they can optimize the game but it would take the entire team to do, so it would completely take away from any game progress while there is barely anything in the game rn

and the "optimization update" will probably come from when they do unreal engine 5 because they have done nanite tests

[viral finch]

@gritty terrace Oh,But then people shouldn't be crying to optimizations then. I read a lot of complaint in feedback.
The engine migration will be surelly delayed. The idea, could help for short term .
...
but anyways, there is no "short term" with this devs. I assume this game is kind of a free time hobbie. and not their main income concern.

[echo tiger]

Their main income gets donated to twitch LoL streamers

[gritty terrace]

Im just saying the devs know how to optimize the game not really a need to do examples

its just a fact of, it will take a lot of time and mapower

[viral finch]

@gritty terrace In that case, I should say "stop complaining about frame rates, they know what they are doing" . haha

[gritty terrace]

well no, people can say that they have issues, that is how feedback works

just no need to say what specific ways to optimize the game

because also who knows what things will break what

[viral finch]

Then I said a good thing. I'm thinking of them.
Is an optimization technique that they are not doing.
but people can throw better ideas.
........................
The thing is: what is their plan in short term for it ?
"who knows"

[gritty terrace]

I don't think they have a short term

because optimizing would take away too much from development they say

so once again when they do Unreal Engine 5 with nanite they will probably go all out on optimizing

[icy lion]

They optimize where they can, but major focus cannot be given to it in this stage

[viral finch]

I just want ceratopsians and ankys lol

[gritty terrace]

that is completely unrelated-

[viral finch]

just saw a lot of this

[gritty terrace]

people have been saying that a lot since day 1

they will do it when they can

[viral finch]

no, Im saying that i gave feedback regarding others.
Regarding me, is that off topic thing.

[gritty terrace]

?

ik

everyone was complaining about optimization since day 1

[viral finch]

I run the game well thankfully.

[gritty terrace]

same

[viral finch]

@trim mauve @echo tiger
Correct me if I'm wrong of course (I like playing deino)

Not interconected rivers will make people avoid populated rivers,
And discriminating access to Deinos around the map. Also safe drinking spots break the whole Deino experience, as he relies on ambush, and the cool part is "deinos could be anywhere in water as any terrestrial in land" (I do like the tunnel connected ideas tho)
Small holes also will provoce many accidents when growth too much. (Deino beign stuck due growing inside).
Just a thought about it.

[proven river]

@tiny agate
-Acrocanthosaurus atokensis
-Albertosaurus sarcophagus
-Allosaurus fragilis
-Ankylosaurus magniventris
-Austroraptor cabazai
-Avaceratops lammersi

-Baryonyx walkeri
-Beipiaosaurus inexpectus
-Brachiosaurus altithorax
-Brontosaurus ajax

-Camarasaurus supremus
-Carnotaurus sastrei
-Ceratosaurus nasicornis
-Charcharodontosaurus saharicus
-Compsognathus longipes

-Deinocheirus mirificus
-Deinosuchus hatcheri
-Diabloceratops eatoni
-Dilophosaurus wetherilli
-Dryosaurus altus

-Gallimimus bullatus
-Giganotosaurus carolinii

-Herrerasaurus ischigualastensis
-Homalocephale calathoceros
-Hypsilophodon foxii

-Kentrosaurus aethiopicus

-Magyarosaurus dacus
-Maiasaura peeblesorum
-Megalania (Varanus priscus)
-Minmi paravertebra
-Monolophosaurus jiangi

-Orodromeus makelai
-Oviraptor philoceratops

-Pachycephalosaurus wyomingensis
-Pachyrhinosaurus canadensis
-Parasaurolophus tubicen
-Plateosaurus engelhardti
-Protoceratops andrewsi
-Psittacosaurus mongoliensis
-Pteranodon longiceps

-Quetzalcoatlus northropi

-Rauisuchus tiradentes
-Rugops primus

-Shantungosaurus giganteus
-Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
-Stegosaurus stenops
-Styracosaurus albertensis
-Suchomimus tenerensis

-Tenontosaurus tilleti
-Therizinosaurus cheloniformis
-Titanoboa cerrejonens
-Triceratops horridus
-Troodon inaequalis
-Tyrannosaurus rex

-Utahraptor ostrommaysorum

-Velociraptor mongoliensis

That's the planned roster

and I can DM you all of the concept arts if so you wish

[viral finch]

https://tenor.com/view/the100-abby-abby-griffin-ten-years-maybe-fifteen-years-gif-11577499

[proven river]

Don't get too optimistic

[zealous stone]

You're forgetting that Utah might get split into Omniraptor and a more realistic Utah.

[low canopy]

sounds op

[faint folio]

@fleet quartz to be fair, there are 3 roadmap recaps since the last detailed one. One was the dev blog week and so you got a detailed update by reading the dev blog instead. One was the week of the client crashes where probably most of the programmers were busy hunting the crash down for a hotfix release. So there's really only 1 week where the roadmap recap wasn't so detailed

[fleet quartz]

Yeah I was more referring to the check list type roadmap update for playables but your right, just really excited to see progress on bepi and troodon

[faint folio]

Me too! I can't wait XD it depends on how they play of course but I think beipi will be quite fun

[minor basalt]

@topaz pendant what are your pc specs?

[gritty terrace]

@minor laurel the spino in this game is not built to be quedrapedal

[minor laurel]

Talking about 3D modeling thing ?

[gritty terrace]

3d modeling thing???

I'm just saying the spino

It's not built for being on all fours

[minor laurel]

Yeah, why do you say that the spino is not built for quadrupedal if it's not for technical issues ? :o

[gritty terrace]

....

At that point just make trex quadruped

Yeah you can in game but literal anatomy wise the one in game isn't meant to be on all fours

[minor laurel]

No need to be Sassy, i just want to understand your point of view. Because Spino can be modified in his 3D model to fit the idea. So what is that you are saying? You don't like the idea or is it not doable ?

Alright, i understand !

[gritty terrace]

Well you can edit it but I don't think the devs will

I'm just saying how spino currently is it shouldn't be

And I think how the spino is now is fine, last thing they really need to change is make it be on all fours

[minor laurel]

Yeah, i get your point and you're right. Meanwhile, it would be great to reconsider the model if the idea suits the devs tho. But as you say, in the end it is up to them !

I am kind of worried about his gameplay tho with all the apexes around

[gritty terrace]

Also being on all fours doesn't necessarily mean faster

It would actually be faster bipedal

[minor laurel]

I didn't talk about speed in my suggestion but more of a more manoeuvrable thing, like turning easier, that kind of things

[gritty terrace]

Eh it feels like quad would just be worse in every way but Stam and at that point just trot

[minor laurel]

if you feel like combat oriented player yeah, it will be worse, but if you want to play in a survival dodging heavy situations way, it can suits the gameplay, u see?

[gritty terrace]

Not really

Biped you would be faster and be able to turn quicker

[minor laurel]

Moving easily through big trucks like giga and rex can help running away for example

[gritty terrace]

What?

Are you talking about climbing over them?

Cuz the devs aren't adding a climbing mechanic to something that is bigger than rex

[minor laurel]

No, just if they come to you, being able to move easier, in like a side arc around them

[gritty terrace]

You side arc faster as bipedal 💀

Turn radiuses are better on things that are bipedal

[minor laurel]

Ask that to a ferret XD I don't know, i trust what you are saying. I just see spinos as very big newts so i see them moving like them too

[gritty terrace]

What-

When it is bigger than rex??????

It will be just as capable as rex would be

[icy lion]

Our spino is nothing like the real thing

[minor laurel]

Yeah, i feel like they are kind of more agile in the way they look, it's just an impression tho

[gritty terrace]

It's just another take on JP3 spino

[minor laurel]

Yeah, that's why i suggested things like that. Because to me, the isle spino feels like another rex playable, but worse in terms of lots of basics stats :o

[gritty terrace]

And it feels like the design overall would not fit if it was edited to be quad as well

[gritty terrace]

It is the apex of the water-

[minor laurel]

what about the deino then? :o

[gritty terrace]

And is capable is doing things with its hands unlike the other 2

SPINO IS BIGGER THAN DEINO WHAT LMFAO

[minor laurel]

Well i don't know, people talk about deino as an apex, so aren't apex similar in terms of stats, kind of ?

[gritty terrace]

Yes but spino is literally the biggest carnivore apex 💀

While stego is apex but lower tier apex

[minor laurel]

biggest doesn't mean strongest, so what can he do to defend himself ? :/ the take down mec could help but i don't feel like it can do a lot against something like a rex if the dev chose to give them same size, does he?

[gritty terrace]

We don't know it's abilities yes really

[minor laurel]

Oh, i see. I didn't take the low apex tier into consideration

[gritty terrace]

Rex may be stronger but once again it thrives in the water

Just because it's an apex doesn't mean it's the same as rex?

Apex is like... it's own thing

Like ones will be better than others

And have different niches as well

[minor laurel]

Yeah, i hope so. that is exactly what scares me in the end i think. Legacy was so unbalanced and saying rex is all, and other dinos are just gonna deal with that

[gritty terrace]

Well if I remember correctly dondi made the rex slower than a human in his stream

[minor laurel]

and i like strategic versatile gameplays too tho

Yeah

[gritty terrace]

Apexes aren't really meant to be versatile

Biggest something "versitile" will get is probably high or mid tier medium sized dinos

[minor laurel]

yeah they have specific niche but that's what supposely killed spino so i thought it would be fun to take the lesson from that and put it as a strength for his gameplay, but i get your point for sure

[gritty terrace]

How will quad strengthen it

Once again quad is worse in pretty much every way but with stam

[minor laurel]

more maniability is a strentgh and stam too !

[gritty terrace]

Manibility?

[minor laurel]

manoeuvrability ?

agility

[gritty terrace]

I literally said you have better agility with being bipedal

[minor laurel]

yeah, it's a game, that can be changed for gameplay purpose

[gritty terrace]

Hadrosaurs probably went biped to run away

But it's a game, there is no point to add something and completely change a model when it does nothing really

That would take time away from doing other things

[echo tiger]

I think a cool mechanic would be to allow for things to alternate stances and get better attacks out of it, that way it ties to gameplay.

[gritty terrace]

What other attacks would spino get out of it

[minor laurel]

Tail swap?

[minor laurel]

I like the idea tho

[gritty terrace]

Because hadrosaurs can kick and stuff but it's just taking away its ability to use its hands

[echo tiger]

I mean quadrapeds distribute surface pressure alot better than bipeds, maybe could have a sound factor play into it?

Quieter steps or some thing, even if it's just a utility

For tenonto i would like to see a stance mechanic since it's such a complex animal, allow for more effective claw swipes as opposed to the ones we've got now

At the cost of mobility because of it's massive tail

[gritty terrace]

But that's so little for completely changing the model and pretty much ruining the design because it's meant to be a different take on biped spino 💀

How it is now is fine

No point in pretty much redoing it just for slight things like that

[echo tiger]

i mean you dont have to redo the model

It just adds an slight expansion to it's kit

All dinos could do with expansions to their kits, they all pretty much play the same otherwise.

[gritty terrace]

You kinda do to get proportions for being a biped

You'd have to make the legs much smaller and make the arms much bigger and probably change the torso so it isn't awkward

And you'd be redoing the rig and all the animations it already has

And you'd have to redo the high poly scult to redo the normals

So yes you are practically redoing it

[minor laurel]

If you look at tenontos, they quite have the same length of arms and legs than spino ratio. having the but higher than the shoulders can be a thing is they walk with a snakish vibe

[gritty terrace]

No?

It's hind legs would probably be longer and you'd have to change up the torso

[minor laurel]

maybe spino have a little bit of tinier arms but not that much

I don't know. I got your point but i also think it's a doable thing to adapt without changing drastically the design

[gritty terrace]

then you're wrong because you'd have to pretty much redo the design

[icy lion]

Why's that?

Our spino has some pretty massive arms

[gritty terrace]

Look what I said above

[icy lion]

It'd probably lean forward pretty far though

[gritty terrace]

Then it would be more comfortable and be more mobile as biped anyways

[icy lion]

To make it look good you'd need edits

But you could still do it with the current model

[minor laurel]

If you want it to be as you imagine it to be accurate then, yes, probably but in the facts, it doesn't really need big changes but edits

[gritty terrace]

You know these devs you think they are gonna do that without it looking good? 💀

[minor laurel]

It can be looking good without big changes :o

Well, at least, i imagine it quite good without lots of tweaks

[gritty terrace]

I'm not saying accurate, I'm just saying give it proportions like all the other quadrupeds in the world

There is no point of quad

[minor laurel]

But it is a semi quadru/bipedal irl, it can have caracteristics from both :o

[gritty terrace]

No it isn't, it's one or the other

And it's likely only quad

[minor laurel]

it was switching supposedly

[gritty terrace]

No it would not

[icy lion]

We don't have its arms, so we don't know

[gritty terrace]

The center of balance was so far forward that if it was bipedal it would be very uncomfortable

Then at that point if it can switch it would just stay quadrapedal

Sorry said the wrong thing

And irl spino was probably in the water so much it didn't need to walk much

While this spino needs to actually walk a lot

[minor laurel]

Yeah, that's why coupling both would have been a cool thing. Even if not with attributes i suggested but i think the quadru/bipedal thing can be exploited with the isle spino for a cool gameplay thing

[gritty terrace]

Back to gameplay

what gameplay thing

[minor laurel]

a proposition gameplay thing from me, that is really all it is :,)

[gritty terrace]

It would literally not add anything worth pretty much redoing all of the asset

It would have better Stam and have worse versions of the attack it had as a biped

[minor laurel]

for sure they already have ideas and things planned for it but they can get others ideas or new ideas that complete what they are planning about it by reading other way of seeing things !

[gritty terrace]

That's the most I can imagine

[minor laurel]

it can be slightly faster too, and manage better into forest and restricted environment, it is a big plus from my sight

[gritty terrace]

It being semi aquatic and having semi unique attacks while being something bigger than rex is already enough gameplay wise?

[minor laurel]

or as matt said, maybe switching to tail swipe or front attack can be a thing too

[gritty terrace]

Once again, wouldn't be faster

[minor laurel]

I don't think size matter that much, even in game

[gritty terrace]

Tail swipes for things doesn't make much sense unless they already have that weaponized, teno tail slam is already pushing it

[minor laurel]

look at a croc doing 4 legs sprint then xD I am searching for an animal that switches to try to compare but i don't find one 🤔

[gritty terrace]

hadrosaurs

[minor laurel]

I don't know why a thing with a tail from that size will not use it to swap things tho !

[icy lion]

Those are the smallest species of crocs

[gritty terrace]

And if it is 4 legged and faster than something that is a biped their proportions is DRASTICALLY different

Once again, you'd have to change all of spinos proportions drastically aka only make it quad to make it comparable and or faster than biped

[minor laurel]

Yeah well okay, inversion then ! If i take your way of thinking which is okay, quadrupedal pose will be a more static one that can help into battles to be more effective and helps preventing to be taken down due to the posture and all for example

[gritty terrace]

Because you'd be probably hurting yourself more than you are hurting other things if you are putting any actual force into a tail attack unless you are built for it

[minor laurel]

So tenontos are in pain ?

[gritty terrace]

?

[gritty terrace]

Unironically yes lmfao

Their tails are broken asf

[icy lion]

It's a sci-fi game

Our spino has a really crocodilian tail too

[minor laurel]

Yeah you said that you'd be slower and all with a quadru stance

[gritty terrace]

?

[minor laurel]

Let the spino be in pain too 🙏

[gritty terrace]

It would be if it could also go bipedal

[minor laurel]

Yeah, we admit it can

[gritty terrace]

But doing things like putting your body lower to the ground and other things that spino would not be able to do could make it maybe faster

But those are nowhere close to the proportions of spino at all

With isle spino itself, it cannot be faster quad than as a biped

[minor laurel]

Admitting that spino as switching stance, and that the quadrupedal one is slower and more stable, combat oriented, and a bipedal that is more based on taking things down or latching onto preys, to force player to switch from stability to agility, is something more coherent for you ?

[gritty terrace]

When did I saw quad is combat orientated?

Ever?

[minor laurel]

I talked about it here: o

[gritty terrace]

You'd be taking away it's main thing it would use to kill things which is its arms

And I never admitted to that

[minor laurel]

well no because it can switch to bipedal to be more agile than static and do his claws things :o

[gritty terrace]

Your just putting stuff in my mouth lmao

[gritty terrace]

?

[minor laurel]

It was a paraphrase to say "if i based things on that" my bad if it was bad interpretade. I am not an english person so some expressions can be badly translated

[minor laurel]

I talked about it here XD

[gritty terrace]

Once again, you don't need an entire quad stance to be slower and more stable, there is trotting for that

And walking

Walking and trotting does the exact same thing gameplay wise quad would do but you could also do all of your attacks

[minor laurel]

But all playable can do that (without stability > i talk about stability while receiving charges, or things that can take you down) and it is not an entire full feature at the moment :o

[gritty terrace]

.................

What the hell will knock down spino

[minor laurel]

giga or rexes? even anky tail knock off or shant charge, i dont know

[gritty terrace]

Once again, no point of adding a quad stance for something that will never happen

[minor laurel]

Well, it is worth the exploration of the idea anyway !

[gritty terrace]

Not really

[minor laurel]

For me it is !

[gritty terrace]

Cuz like I said you'd have to redo all of spino

[minor laurel]

I enjoyed talking about it and seeing points of doing it or not !

[gritty terrace]

Once again I'm going back to my point that there is no point redoing an entire dinosaur just to try out something that will almost never happen

[minor laurel]

In a pessimistic way, yeah, but i believe that all is doable if we want to. I respect your point of view tho even if i don't share it in my bones !

[gritty terrace]

It's not pessimistic it's realistic 💀

[minor laurel]

Points you talked about were wise and coherents, that was cool !

It's what pessimists says

(jking a bit, sorry)

Thank you for talking about it anyway !

[gritty terrace]

Alright

I appreciate the debate but it really feels like you do not get my point 💀

[icy lion]

There is no need to be condescending towards someone trying to have a conversation

[gritty terrace]

I'm not trying to, it just feels like he doesn't get the point that is all I am saying

[faint folio]

If I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that changing the model would involve a lot of rework on the model, skins, and animation sets, plus that allowing quadruped spino doesn't really offer anything interesting or unique to it's build?

Honestly, I think it depends on what the devs decide to do with spino.

It's going to be a while before it is added to the roster, so if they decide to change it's niche or playstyle to make it more distinct from the other theropod apexes, or pursue more realism (spino would almost have to be quadruped irl due to balance issues), they would have plenty of time to rework the model in little bits and pieces. They have already shown that they will modify legacy models (I didn't play a ton of legacy but I know baronyx for example got model edits), so that's really not that much of an issue. Textures and animations would need to be tweaked or added to. But again, apexes aren't coming anytime soon, so if they decide they have a reason to change it...

As for the other point-- both quadrupeds and bipeds can be quite athletic and speedy-- look at horses vs ostriches, for example. Ostriches have a slightly higher average speed, but their top sprint speeds are quite comparable, and a quarter horse actually has been clocked in running 10 mph faster than the max ostrich speed.

So, in terms of speed, I don't think there's any advantage.

BUT, looking at some other possible reasons for quadrupedal spino (and debating their viability)

1. realism
2. stealth
3. stamina
4. different combat abilities
5. biome enforcement

1). Given we're getting a realistic Utah, this might actually be a fairly good reason to the devs. Though, I agree that realism itself is not a good enough reason to do a whole remodel.

2. Spreading the weight out over more surface area would leave lighter impressions in the ground and make for quieter footsteps. This may be valuable for a spino to have the advantage of better stealth over other apexes. Obviously the disadvantage is that you lose those gnarly claws as weapons, but maybe it could be feasible with some new hunting mechanics?

3. As I said earlier, bipedal spino is not stable, at all, and most positions for bipedal spino to be stable require said spino to dislocate their hips. So maybe it would be an interesting mechanic to have standing bipedal allow use of claw/swipe/hook attacks, at the cost of some passive Stam drain for the monumental effort it would need to make to hold the bipedal position. That might lead to an interesting balance situation for players to decide how they want to allocate their stamina, and again reinforces gameplay different from "rex, but near water"

4. So I already mentioned the whole no claws in quadruped mode thing, but the next question is how to balance it. Maybe since the claws probably do a good amount of damage (or rather bleed), quadruped abilities could be focused less on doing damage and more on debuffs. A shoulder check or stagger, launching into a pin (if spino even has that?), Etc. Idk what attacks would make sense exactly here, but bipedal would definitely be superior for trying to kill something

5. the last reason I could think of to do quadrupedal spino is to water lock it, and make it heavily dependent on water's buoyancy to support it's weight and enable standing on 2 legs to use it's claws. Idk if that would work well or not, to be honest; just an interesting thought I had about how to encourage players to play in their biome without directly impacting their water like deinos and forcing them to stay nearby. Such a mechanic would encourage a wader kind of niche for spino

[gritty terrace]

not a fan of doing it as a seperate thing because at that point it feel like the water would be cluttered

the amount that they have now I think is a good balance of semi aquatics in the game

and irl spino isn't the most exciting for a game like this, most things would body it when it comes to apexes

and there isn't really different combat, it just feels like the combat would be overall worse

like its different in the worse way possible

and once again, with stam and stealth, just trot or walk

there is no point to go through the means of making it bipedal if all it is going to do is replace the trot/walk

[proud coral]

Having a lock on for animals kinda defeats the point of survival....

If you lose it in a dense forest, that's on you.

[gritty terrace]

also very abusable

[remote dock]

Lock for hunting defeats the point of the whole hunting part for me

[faint folio]

i guess it really depends on how much water the new map has. and how many dinos it can support, and how popular water locked dinos are.

As for most apexes bodying it... that is basically how deino works currently as a lower apex. its undeniably stronger than mid tiers, but i dont think it will hold up to stuff like rex and spino. and I think it depends a lot on how everything else is designed too.

Idk... I think its an interesting idea. but maybe its because again spino would not be able to balance on 2 legs, it looks awkward as all get out when I see it trying to walk on 2 feet in a way that other theropods don't, and I personally don't like the design for that reason. plus... we already have a LOT of large, 2 leg theropods planned. would be nice to have something different. I think you feel the exact opposite, and that's okay.

[gritty terrace]

just don't do paleo spino because that entire thing is a shitshow

[faint folio]

paleo spino?

[gritty terrace]

yeah actual spino

because you were saying do quad spino

cuz if you were to add quad spino as its own thing it would be irl spino

otherwise there is no point

it also just feels that current isle spino does not fit with being quad

[faint folio]

I was saying do spino that can switch between bipedal and quadrupedal. and it doesn't need to be an additional playable like paleo utah, just make the changes before spino releases.

[faint folio]

no... it doesn't. but they're already making changes from legacy versions of dinos, so I dont think "it wouldn't work with legacy spino" is that much of an issue

[gritty terrace]

when I say current I mean evrima

and have you not seen any of my points...

[faint folio]

evrima doesn't have a spino yet. we have concept art, thats it

[gritty terrace]

and a model

and animations

that is why I say do not redo all that just to do quad spino

the major apexes are more done than we think

and they will not redo them just for a mechanic that doesn't make any sense

because once again, just trot

it would do the same thing

[faint folio]

i mean... yeah I've seen your points. but at the same time I disagree with most of them, as I have explained.

and they wouldn't need to entirely redo most of it, as standing animations can be tweaked and then quadrupedal animations added

trot is not particularly quiet... so no, it would not do the same thing

aside from questioning the logic of why they are working on animation sets for dinos that are quite literally so far down the dev pipeline they aren't even on the trello board... but that is a separate issue

[gritty terrace]

if you redo a rig youd have to redo or heavily edit most of the animations, they would have to add quad animations, you'd have to change the proportions so it can be both and make it so you can go between both which will look awkward, with changing the proportions you would have to redo that part of the high poly sculpt to get the normals right...... you pretty much end up redoing it

even half of that is hell to do

and what would quad mode do that wouldn't just be an over convoluted trot or walk

because stam/stealth is not valid then

and combat wise all it does is remove the major parts of spinos thing which is using its arms

it is just not worth the time

[faint folio]

and we're back to the exact same arguments again. we're not going anywhere with this. I think we will need to agree to disagree

[gritty terrace]

what changed 💀

it is still the same

[proven river]

@grand trail

[minor laurel]

Your ideas were interesting to read !

[minor laurel]

I do get it but i don't agree with it. We do not share same way of thinking or values and it's okay ! It's not an obligation to agree with each other and it's fine !

[viral finch]

xd 🦋

this very good idea

[viral finch]

feedback is a place to share your points not to be liked, accepted, but heared, at least. It's just voice

[viral finch]

https://tenor.com/view/shaun-cheers-cheers-shaun-pitates-of-the-caribbean-shaun-pirates-of-the-caribbean-gif-22726555

[minor laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/bruce-lee-bow-master-smile-gif-12365468

[proven river]

Mate you gave me a bloody heart attack XD

[viral finch]

I vote for double stance, even for my stego to get high above mangos (maybe stand in two paws as a alternative "jump")

[proven river]

Bipedal stego?

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-gmod-gmod-the-isle-gif-25128685

[viral finch]

[proven river]

[viral finch]

https://tenor.com/view/crocodile-explosion-crocodile-explodes-gif-24974592

[proven river]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-the-isle-evrima-beipiaosaurus-the-isle-beipiaosaurus-gif-25133051

[jovial hazel]

I feel like people see "migration" and think of big groups of dinos all travelling together. It seems like the mechanics are meant to dissuade people from all congregating in one spot, I doubt it is meant to get them to just travel around together in big groups.

[echo tiger]

We never know until its out

It could just be another bad mechanic, though it sounds really good for the game

[viral finch]

Hi @silk socket Regarding your thought:
Lol I think, the water in evrima is on of my favorite things. It's funny to read that Because I have played Path of titans and you should see how that one looks (not a good thing to look)
I just think water in evrima is very impressive. One of the few things we can be happy about. 😜 (becuase the game is empty as F). But you may see something I havent (?)

[viral finch]

I thought migration will be taking your dino to another server 🤣 OMG.
Will be actual walking. Interesting

[gritty terrace]

@viral finch I do not remember exactly, isn't subsurface scattering unoptimized for games?

[bitter saddle]

Porque los biboro me matan si soy otro biboro y dure 4 hora en subirlo eso no se asen solo y ellos 5 y solo quería caminar con ellos mano

[viral finch]

is just a layer of display, as specular or roughness or emmissive.
Ussually used for ears and soft tessue or blankets or anything that allows light "go through".
Is determine by a mask to only display the wanted areas.

[gritty terrace]

yeah ik what it is I thought I heard it isn't too optimized for games

and more map layers like that would be more intensive per asset anyways

[viral finch]

( my last spanish message, i don't think spanish is allowed )
.....................................................
No creo que nos dejen hablar español de seguro no sacan.

• Suele pasar, es raro. pero hay que ser muy cautelozo. Si eres nuevo, lamento que haya sucedido. pero así es el juego. Usualmente son amistozos. pero manten siempre distancia y "prueba" a los grupos grandes

[viral finch]

PS3 stuff. . Don't worry

[gritty terrace]

huh alright

[viral finch]

hitman is the oldest I can recal, and call of duties.

But also mostly becasue I do 3D hehe. The why I mention

[gritty terrace]

ah

nice

[proven river]

@opal jay If you're referring to the growth morph, it already exists XD

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664914260648001555/664916208629448704/DiloMorph.mp4

[obsidian jetty]

@keen delta I see your point and yes, I kinda see the same issue for Troodons or Dilos, but just resetting the timer or completely cancelling the logout by basically waking the dino back up (which would make sense in a way, if I got bitten while falling asleep I'd probably wake back up too ^^) would put people in a position where they can just keep someone from logging forever by biting them once every 30-40 seconds with a juvi or something...and while I'd consider that extremely boring it is something you have to think about unfortunately...

[opal jay]

[gritty terrace]

@hollow kraken there are a couple reasons of not doing kapro. One, Kapro is likely not like that at all so it would just be a smaller deino, Two, rauisuchus which is kinda a land croc is already planned

[hollow kraken]

rauisuchus looks like this

It doesn't even look like a croc

and utahraptor looks like this

[gritty terrace]

It's a psudosuchian

[hollow kraken]

well, kapro is a croc

[frank compass]

IT BIRB

[gritty terrace]

So it isn't really a croc but it's pretty much kapro but better

[hollow kraken]

so why should we replace kapro with something that isn't a croc?

[frank compass]

birb better

[hollow kraken]

no

It's a bootleg gorgonops

[gritty terrace]

It isn't replacing kapro cuz it's not going in

rauisuchus is confirmed

[frank compass]

they shou.l

[hollow kraken]

It's just a mcdonalds offbrand toy of gorgonops or what it's called

[frank compass]

sorry miss click

[hollow kraken]

We need kapro

[gritty terrace]

Oh wait I think I have my stuff mixed up

What you mean we need kapro? 💀

[hollow kraken]

YES

KAPROSUCHUS

[gritty terrace]

Why?

[gritty terrace]

God why are you referencing jurassic world the game lmfao

[hollow kraken]

Read my message

true

There you go

Ark

[frank compass]

we need big tank

[gritty terrace]

It probably didn't have long legs like that-

[frank compass]

cuz go boom boom

[uneven mist]

If we do get capro (which is unlikely) 2-3 hours sounds to much by how smal it is

[gritty terrace]

For some reason everyone depicts it like that

[hollow kraken]

Utahraptor probably wasn't jurassic world thing

[gritty terrace]

Huh?

Well I mean jurassic world the game

[hollow kraken]

Utahraptor probably looked more like the dakotaraptor from saurian

[gritty terrace]

That game has some of the shittiest designs

[hollow kraken]

So realism doesn't matter

[echo tiger]

Kapro will just be another redundant playable. We have megalania and it'll just get shite on

[gritty terrace]

This too

[hollow kraken]

Have you played ark?

[gritty terrace]

I forgot about Meg

[echo tiger]

Yes, ARK balancing in the isle sounds terrible.

[gritty terrace]

Why is this relevant at all?

[uneven mist]

Kapro also is “smal” so making it 2-3 hours would be too much if we did get it

[echo tiger]

Kapro just leaping out of the water and grabbing smalls

Cool. It's just a better deino at that point

[hollow kraken]

Because using the lounge ability while riding a kapro is very very fun in ark

[gritty terrace]

Ok?

So?

[hollow kraken]

and you can use it as a reference

for how kapro could be in the isle

[gritty terrace]

?

[echo tiger]

Plus again we have megalania and raui

[gritty terrace]

Yeah what

[echo tiger]

Why even add kapro

[gritty terrace]

There's megalania

[frank compass]

they should add gorilla with gun

[hollow kraken]

Megalania is a big komodo dragon raui is a bootleg walmart gorgonopsid

[frank compass]

it take 2 min to grow up

[hollow kraken]

Kapro is not even close to them

[gritty terrace]

They kinda are

[echo tiger]

Kapro is close to them wtf are you talking about. You're proposing to balance it like ark but that's just not gonna happen

Therefore it's another quadrapedal lizard. Cool.

That's gonna get shite on by its contemporaries

[hollow kraken]

Raui, Kapro and Megalania

[gritty terrace]

Kinda proves our point

[hollow kraken]

big difference

[echo tiger]

So? Mega will shite on the other two

You just want a new skin for a Croc effectively

[hollow kraken]

is argument is that it will be bad?

[gritty terrace]

Kapro also probably didn't have long legs and may just be a smaller shitty deino

[low canopy]

too.many.playables

[hollow kraken]

Have you heard about a playable called hypsi

[echo tiger]

Yes I'm aware it's bad.

[hollow kraken]

Slower than a utah, weak and has nothing special so far

[echo tiger]

But so is kapro, don't act like it actually has a niche

Cause it just doesn't

[hollow kraken]

when kapro gets chased by a meg it goes into the river

[gritty terrace]

To be fair they are giving it climbing eventually but it doesn't help much

[hollow kraken]

I said so far

and herrera will get tree climbing too

[gritty terrace]

Yeah and so can bary?

[echo tiger]

Wow! Where it will get shite on by spino, sucho, deino and bary

[hollow kraken]

so hypsi will be useless

[hollow kraken]

It just crosses the river and then runs

with it's superior land speed

[echo tiger]

Where it'll get shite on by every single terrestrial carnivore.

[hollow kraken]

and the meg won't wanna cross

[hollow kraken]

Bruh every dinos isn't on the same island 💀

[gritty terrace]

They did put in the concept Meg swimming and it's looking like it's a good swimmer

[echo tiger]

Need I remind you that this is the thing that supposedly has a niche.

[hollow kraken]

kapro will be better at it tho

[frank compass]

it still has long legs compard to the body

[gritty terrace]

There is no point dude -_-

[echo tiger]

We need less playables, alot of playables are redundant

[hollow kraken]

What's hypsi's niche then?

[gritty terrace]

Once again kapro probably didn't have those long legs

[hollow kraken]

no we need more

[echo tiger]

Hypsi, minmi, troodon, mega, magy are all redundant

Raui also, we do not need more.

[gritty terrace]

That is the last thing we need

[hollow kraken]

we need more diversity

[hollow kraken]

HOW DO WE NEED LESS?

[echo tiger]

Diversity in the form of bad animals?

[echo tiger]

Because they're redundant playables.

[frank compass]

so you want to play a game with only uthas

[uneven mist]

We already have 56-58 playables..we don’t need more

[hollow kraken]

how can you have enough?

[echo tiger]

That's not what we're saying. Please read what we're actually saying here.

[hollow kraken]

And we all know the big more complex guys will release in 3023

[frank compass]

yeah i am reading that you dont want deversity

[gritty terrace]

There is such thing as too much

[hollow kraken]

so then we could have some less complex guys that are easy to make as an apatizer

[echo tiger]

Nah you don't get it.

[frank compass]

sure dude

[gritty terrace]

Diversity is good it's just that some are copy and pastes of others

[echo tiger]

Diversity does nothing if the playables that you want are complete fodder and useless. Please read again.

[hollow kraken]

no

[echo tiger]

How is rauisuchus meant to compete for example

How is it balanced

[uneven mist]

And basically overlap with different playables making the other useless and the weaker version

[frank compass]

but then you want more playebles that are not complete fodder and useless.

[echo tiger]

Someone gets it

[hollow kraken]

more playables = More fun. It doesn't matter what math you do more playables will always equal more fun

[echo tiger]

Bingo.

[gritty terrace]

?

[frank compass]

but you just said you wanted less playebles

[hollow kraken]

then just give all the useless guys a special ability

[frank compass]

huh

[uneven mist]

55-58 playables are enough…I’d actually want to remove or scrap some from the roster

[echo tiger]

Less playables = more better playables yes, there's no redundancy

What's the point for example of playing styracosaurus if eotrike or triceratops is in the game

[frank compass]

or you just make allot of good playables

[hollow kraken]

why would they have to be bad?

[gritty terrace]

You can't do that if 1 is the same as the other

[hollow kraken]

why not make them 10x larger?

[uneven mist]

Like we don’t need: rugops, Ava, taco, Cory, accurate utah, mono (could be unique) plateo (could be unique) and maybe styraco

[hollow kraken]

give em something special

[echo tiger]

Because by design they can't compete with their contemporaries, that's just the isle

[hollow kraken]

The isle doesn't have any realism anyways

[echo tiger]

It's not about realism, but about core gameplay

[gritty terrace]

It's not ark levels of realism either

[echo tiger]

A troodon isn't doing anything to a rex.

[hollow kraken]

a pack is

[echo tiger]

A ptera isn't killing a spino

[echo tiger]

.... Goodluck lmfao

[hollow kraken]

But you can explore the map and have fun and fish with the boys

[uneven mist]

Ah nonono Omni (Utah) I’d see but def not troodon💀

[gritty terrace]

[hollow kraken]

Are you saying a pack of utahs can't take down a stego?

[echo tiger]

Yeah you can, but your niche is secured, you're a flier

[gritty terrace]

Man's just proved he has no idea what he is talking about

[echo tiger]

Whereas kapro, what's its niche?

What's it gonna do lmfao

[gritty terrace]

Stego is the weakest apex

[hollow kraken]

I'll tell you that

[gritty terrace]

While rex is one of the top

[uneven mist]

A pack of utahs (omnis) can take out a stego, a troodon pack I don’t see would be able to I see the max thing they could take out is animals up to 2 tons

[echo tiger]

Do it, I'm really curious

[hollow kraken]

Kapro will be like deino but with more speed longer legs and all that stuff and instead of having a boring a lounge attack why not give it a super lounge attack where it hops into the air and goes a really really far distance and to spice it up why not give it a poisonous bite or even better a special poison that drains their oxygen and stamina so they drown faster and while we're there why not give it a tree climbing ability. If kapro can't have that then spino can't be a giant jurassic park lizard on drugs

[gritty terrace]

That just doesn't make sense 💀

[frank compass]

but you just said

[gritty terrace]

Also venom does not fit crocs

[hollow kraken]

well does troodon having venom make sense?

[hollow kraken]

snakes have venom

[gritty terrace]

Yeah because they are making it a night hunter lmao

[hollow kraken]

Both are reptiles

[frank compass]

again you said this

[gritty terrace]

You did not just say that 💀

[hollow kraken]

Night hunter = Venom? How did you think there?

[echo tiger]

Why are you pinging me?

[uneven mist]

[echo tiger]

Whats the problem with that statement?

[gritty terrace]

Because that is how both dilo and troodon are? It's the niche the devs gave them??

And Meg also will have venom as well

[frank compass]

sorry thought you were the other person or somthing

[hollow kraken]

so why don't we give crocs a venom and tree climbing as a niche

[gritty terrace]

Because that would be megalania lmfao

[uneven mist]

So we making juvi megalania a different playable?

[gritty terrace]

Meg is having tree climbing and venom lmfao

Kapro just doesn't fit

[hollow kraken]

well scrap the poison Idea

Tree climbing then

it's very very different to herrera and hypsi

[echo tiger]

Immediate problems with that:

The isle had problems processing faster speeds and produced alot of lag when they did. Thats why everything was slowed down, what you propose is the anthesis of this change since U1.

Venom on a croc could be interesting until you realize that alot of crocs will cannibalize eachother, venom has to be a coordinated effort in order to maintain balance and not be OP. Working with other kapros as a result will be hard.

Tree climbing is just a no. We already have three climbers in the game, one of which (mega) is only a climber until it's an adult, which is perfectly fine.

[gritty terrace]

Meg is having tree climbing as well as a juvi

[hollow kraken]

and with it's long legs and the isle logic it would make perfect sense

[gritty terrace]

You are literally just describing Meg but with a couple Stat changes dude

[echo tiger]

^

See what i mean, it's a redundant playable.

Therefore its bad for the game, why play Kapro when it's just a weaker Megalania.

Why play Troodon when it's a weaker Omni.

Why play Minmi when it's a weaker Anky.

Why play hypsi.

[uneven mist]

We kinda have “four” Omni (Utah) wil be able to scramble up a smal tree

[hollow kraken]

Faster growth times and to not be op and butcher everything

[gritty terrace]

I'm not really understanding you hating on hypsi really

[frank compass]

cuz it is not always fun to be the strongest

[echo tiger]

It's a useless playable, i dont hate it.

[uneven mist]

Not really aboreal like hypsi, Herrera and juvi mega but it kinda climbs

[echo tiger]

That might be so, but to play a creature where it's entire niche as proposed is just mega but worse. Cmon dude.

It's the same issue i have with troodon, with the removal of mimicry it doesn't stand out.

[hollow kraken]

WAIT

[echo tiger]

Neither will kapro with these proposed ideas.

[hollow kraken]

THEY CANCELLED MIMICRY?

[echo tiger]

Yes.

[uneven mist]

The mimic isn’t removed it’s just not coming when it gets released

[gritty terrace]

I understand size being a major difference with mimni and any but kapro and Meg are pretty similar in size

[hollow kraken]

https://tenor.com/view/suicide-jump-pink-pantern-gif-14045004

[echo tiger]

Mimicry not coming when released is a big blow eitherway.

[hollow kraken]

Well now they just ruined 50% of the hype for troodon

[uneven mist]

True

[frank compass]

but can megalania swim around in a river and then pounce out to catch a teradon in the sky

[echo tiger]

Cause now it is literally a worse utah with venom.

[gritty terrace]

Huh?

[hollow kraken]

Mimicry is not coming. At least not when it releases

[echo tiger]

It's not coming on release.

[uneven mist]

Like I said, it isn’t removed but it won’t come with it when it first releases and wil come later

[echo tiger]

It might not come at all knowing devs but idk.

[gritty terrace]

To be fair we don't know how the venom works, if it is fairly close to bleed then I will agree

[echo tiger]

I mean we WERE meant to be getting a tug of war mechanic for deino and that was scrapped.

[echo tiger]

I dont have much optimism. It sounds like it's just gonna be bleed 2.

[gritty terrace]

Eh who knows

[echo tiger]

Yeah we cant know until its out unfortunately.

[hollow kraken]

Tho if there is one thing we can agree it would be if they would decide to add mimicry it would be in 9832

[echo tiger]

Eitherway, to go back to the main point.

I just think the redundancy of playables will show with the 58 creature roster and alot of them will be borderline useless or just not very fun to play in combat engagements.

[gritty terrace]

But yeah what we learned today is kapro is repetitive because deino and Meg already exists

[hollow kraken]

wait

Are you guys saying they should not add homalocephale?

[frank compass]

no but,can megalania swim around in a river and then pounce out to catch a pteradon in the sky

[echo tiger]

Deino's getting it.

[gritty terrace]

Pretty sure they aren't adding that

[echo tiger]

Maybe. That one depends how they do it.

They are adding Homalo. it was in concept and early modeling.

[gritty terrace]

Oh wut

Huh

[echo tiger]

Homalo could be interesting as a fast, nippy pachy

[gritty terrace]

Eh

[echo tiger]

with alot less raw strength but fast hit and run attacks on things that try to hunt it

could be fun to see them as apart of a herd, but it depends on how they do it.

[hollow kraken]

Indeed

and

In the concept art it is shown that it can knock out a 25% grown teno

and make it unconsious

[echo tiger]

It really depends how it is done.

[hollow kraken]

which is a new concept

[gritty terrace]

Man's keeps referencing jurassic world game designs 💀💀💀

[echo tiger]

Concepts dont translate to gameplay and tapwing deliberately scales up the sizes of the creatures.

[hollow kraken]

well Homalo's desging in jurassic world is 10/10

[echo tiger]

Which isnt bad, but its more of a show off thing.

[uneven mist]

I’d kinda like homalo to be able to live on the mountain sides, giving it a kind of a climb but on rocks instead of tree’s

[echo tiger]

That'd be cool.

[gritty terrace]

Not really at all- it's mediocre at best

[hollow kraken]

agreed

Let's just talk about our lord and saviour homalocephale instead of arguing about kapro

[uneven mist]

Like pachy would live in rocky areas while homalo would be in the mountains

[hollow kraken]

makes sense

[gritty terrace]

Why would they be in different places?

[gray mesa]

A bit late but yea

[hollow kraken]

I'm leaving this to you warden

https://tenor.com/view/peace-out-gif-22295199

[uneven mist]

Both would have their ups and downs about their rock climbing but homalo would have more of a mechanic to help it climb and pachy would just jump and try not to fall

[gritty terrace]

Why would homalo have rock climbing?

[uneven mist]

If they weren’t then homalo wouldn’t really be that great tbh it would just be a worse pachy that can burrow

[gritty terrace]

It would be just as capable as pachy

[uneven mist]

I would like it to be more capable of climbing rocks and leges making it a true mountain goat and making it more unique instead of a…you know, worse pachy

[gritty terrace]

Humalo is just looking like a cross between pachy and dryo since it can burrow it looks like

[gritty terrace]

How would you do that, like as a gameplay mechanic

Going up and down cliffs is the buggies thing in this game

90% of the time it will probably die

[uneven mist]

There was a suggestion that I liked that kinda had what I’m going for but it was a while so idk if I’ll find it tho

How else would you distinguish homalo from pachy? Making it only have a burrow to make it unique isn’t enough

[gritty terrace]

That is what I am saying 💀

That is why I am saying scrap it

[uneven mist]

Because if homalo is just juvi pachy with burrow then yeah scrap it but it having more of a rock climb ability would make it more unique and distinguishable from pachy

[gritty terrace]

Cuz at that point it feels like it would just end up being a better dryo either way 💀

No point in playing dryo if homalo is pretty much the same but probably more damage and "better climbing"

[hollow kraken]

Maybe you could give homalo a knock out ability/stun ability like the one it has in the concept art but the knock out it only works on juvis and small stuff while the stun ability works on adults or something

[gritty terrace]

It would still just be better dryo

[burnt bone]

make it slower than dryo, maybe less stam. That makes it much worse at running, but slightly more capable of fighting. Which can drastically change its playstyle. Also, nocturnal dryo would be great.

[hollow kraken]

Agreed

[zealous ridge]

Easy Anti-Cheat not automatically installing, game wont launch

[icy lion]

Check the pinned messages in #🔧-evrima-troubleshooting-🔧

[opal jay]

homalo really is just a juvie pachy

[echo tiger]

U2 also had it where birds would randomly fly when you called and stuff, would be cool if they added that back.

You'd scare away birds with your calls.

[uneven mist]

they did

[queen ember]

Homalo mountain goat niche

[uneven mist]

best homalo niche

[queen ember]

Only good one

[uneven mist]

True tho

[echo tiger]

Nocturnal dryo niche is baller.

[queen ember]

Like, homalo is literally just Dryo mixed with a little bit of pachy

[echo tiger]

I want it.

[keen delta]

I get that but at the same time if the juvie posed no threat to begin with then the player could just kill it before logging. There's also the possibility of it having to be a certain amount of damage that needs to be dealt, all in all though both are griefing and would probably be considered banable offences and will be taken care of as soon as the whitelisting is in the game. Had this been the first time its happened i probably wouldnt of said anything but there have been several occasions where (and its always stegos) that someone realized they were not gonna win the fight so they just logged with no consequences.

[cyan flame]

Here's the problem with that. A, where do you set the limit for the damage, there's always going to be something doing too much or too little damage. B, the offending player just have to stay out of reach and wait for you to try and log, unless you're something that can reach a spot that player can not, you could be kept in game or be forced to take the 5 min logout and hope it works out anyway and you don't die.

On top of this, there's other offenders than a "raw" logout if this is a problem. Deinos can just go into water, omnis and pachies and tenos can jump up somewhere where something else will not be able to reach them (not even for food if they log back in and die), pteras can wall cling somewhere. Unless they bleed out in the next five min (in the case of deino and ptera, the others can outright log), they're good.

A more reasonable solution to the issue, if it really is one, is to just make it so if something has taken sufficient bleed or any other "DoT" to die no matter what they might do, wallow and rest and so on, then they just die on logout if they attempt that. If they still have enough blood or such to survive, then they're good and you should hunt something more appropriate for your size and power that you can kill in the min it takes to safelog.

[obsidian jetty]

That's...kinda the problem with it. It's a player personality issue. If they're too afraid of dying in a survival game and need to log to avoid it, that's a them problem. I don't think it needs to be "fixed" by the game itself (I wouldn't know how to do it without creating a ton of new issues) but by rules, which many of the unofficial servers probably are going to have as soon as they know what they're working with. For the official servers, I don't really think it's doable because of the many ifs and buts that come with it.

[keen delta]

well if something is doing too little damage it probably wasn't going to get the kill in the first place, getting out of reach is a perfectly fine survival tactic, thats mostly the idea for small herbivores anyway, if your logging to grief someone then there is no problem being forced to take the 5 mins.

again deinos going into water is a reg tactic, most likely thing to kill a deino is a deino anyway. them going somewhere that they end up dying anyway is okay too bc small carnivores that can jump can still eat and otherwise they wouldnt necessarily have to log to be safe if the thing hunting them cant get there. i dont believe pteras can log while clinging to walls (pretty sure once they log in from the 5 min one theyd fall too) and if they could survive whatever attack they took then ofc theyd fly to a safe spot rather than wall cling, and if they die their body falls anyway even if they do wall cling. It really seems like your mistaking escaping for out right leaving,

I do like your solution though. and again a failed hunt due tothem escaping is way better than one from them getting a get out of death free card bc i bleed something or use poison rather than having a damage dealer that just outright takes away its health.

thats just the way i feel anyway, Its a survival game and if i do everything right only to be disadvantaged by a feature being used improperly then that ruins the game ya kn. that stego only has to hit me once to kill me but i need to fight it for several minutes with a group to end its life.

[cyan flame]

If getting out of reach is fine, then so is logging. Why? Because the end result is the same, and you do as much "griefing" in either case, so that's not an excuse. You can't make an argument that "this is griefing because I don't get the kill/food" and then not apply that to all situations, because some "makes sense" and others do not. The end result is the same, that's what matters. You can take bleed enough to kill, make it to a spot where you can't be eaten, just to spite the hunter. I can assure you, that's no more fun than the player logging, if anything, it's even less fun because the player/food is there, just can't be reached.

And the point of the 5 min was that you can grief the player just trying to log by preventing them from logging safely due to your suggestion. Not that that player in question is logging to deny you a kill. But let's say you want to log because you're going to do other stuff, but this baby utah or something just keeps darting in every time you try to log to bite you and prevent you. And then all it has to do is stay away until you try again, rinse and repeat. That is by far worse griefing than someone logging and you not getting that particuar kill. You're not entitled to a kill after all, no matter how that target avoids getting killed by you.

[keen delta]

but the things that kill through bleeding can get anywhere any other dinos can bc they smaller carnivores that can jump, and again the solution would be a damage base limiter bc a small utah isnt going to do jack to anything, same with pteras and young troodon, the onlything that might would be a small carno but theyd also be easier to kill before logging. and you no, you are not entitled to a body just bc you killed it (you can easily be run off by larger predators) but the other player is not entitled to life just bc they exploit the system in a way that it wasnt meant to, the difference between logging and dying on a rock is that they tried to live through normal means. its not necessarily about the end result but the sportsmanship of the game.

[cyan flame]

I sincerely doubt everything that is a bleeder will be small, much less capable of jumping. Or for that matter have the same jump abilities. So that's not really a guarantee for anything. And as I pointed out in the first post, where do you put any such damage limiter, since that can and will be argued for what is an acceptable amount of damage to prevent something. And nothing is "easy to kill" before logging, since they don't have to engage until you're already trying to log, so it'd be perfectly safe for them to grief someone else like that. And to be fair, I'd say you're more entitled to the kill you did get (but couldnt reach or otherwise get due to the spite of the thing you killed), than to get the kill in the first place as it were.

I suppose that's fair, but I care about results, not about "sportmanship" as it were, because at the end of the day, it is no comfort to me that the other guy got away due to what you consider normal means or not, if they still got away in a manner where I could not prevent them. An omni getting up on arock, and then safelogging from there where I can't keep attacking it as carno, is no more fun or better for me than a stego logging while tanking my hits instead. Back in the day, omnis would sit on rocks to recover from fighting with tenos, and if they got "guarded" they just logged, so you couldn't finish them off in most cases. Wasn't fun for you as a teno, and certainly did not feel "fair" that they had a safe way out no matter what.

[uneven mist]

@gilded hinge ok so you think that the jungles are too dense? Or the bushes that are near cliffs making you fall should be removed? (Sry got a little confused in that suggestion)

[gilded hinge]

hmm i dont know how to explain it too well, but whenever i get into the jungle it makes me feel blind and my screen is just full of greens

and yes, it is too dense i think thats the right word

[uneven mist]

Ah ok so the jungles being too dense yeah? Well yeah I feel the same but luckily we wil get a new map “soon-ish” that I hope wil fix that and you know, mostly the bushes around the cliffs that makes you fall to your death

[gilded hinge]

alright thank you

[uneven mist]

And btw were you asking for a DV TestLevel map by the end of your suggestion?

[gilded hinge]

yeah, maybe for deathmatchs or so and it helps alot with fps, and when i just dont feel like growing for 5 hours haha, just like legacy

[uneven mist]

Yeah a sandbox map mostly for pvp or something like that I would like but for now we only have servers that can make you admin

[gilded hinge]

okay got it

[uneven mist]

The only server that I can think of that allows admins is scope and I think taco island to but I think it was shut down

[gilded hinge]

ohh okay

[keen delta]

you lively hood and diet as a teno doesnt depend on killing that omni either, and the point is for each dino to be balanced in some way, you say it wasnt fair the omni had a safe way out but in the same logic its unfair to the omni that you have more health than him

[cyan flame]

My survival very much can, since it wants to kill me. There's a reason to kill a carnivore before it can kill you. And sure, but the health there would be better compared to the omnis speed and agility then, if you want to "compare" stats per say. This was more a point that it could just, almost die, then proceed to sit and heal entirely safe, or just log if food and water ran low, perfectly safe (you can't camp someone out of reach at that, but you can camp something like a carno or stego using terrain otherwise). And that it did not feel "fair", just like you don't feel that resting in a position where you can tank hits (and you do have to do that much due to having to rest in order to log properly, so it's not just "log and go" by any means (which is why I don't consider it combat logging in the first place, since you can't just "poof" during combat)) and "escape" isn't "fair" to you.

@keen deltaYou also have situations where the thing you're hunting is being guarded, then you'd still lose out on it because you can't get to it due to said guards. On top of that, the situation mainly (and very rarely) happens due to hunting one of the two largest things that you really shouldn't be hunting that much. With a full roster, you'd have a lot more critters where them attempting to "tank" something like an omni won't work out.

[viral finch]

@opal mirage The "Stuck command" button , add it to your thing 🦎

[opal mirage]

got it

[uneven mist]

@gilded hinge ah yeah IF you didn’t know, theri is also confirmed

[gilded hinge]

this feels so lucky oh my god

[uneven mist]

Lol yeah

[magic elbow]

anyone can help me low fps?

[faint folio]

@gusty patrol I think 3 is basically the gist of the migration system the devs are currently working on.

[gusty patrol]

o h

fair enough lmao, was worried it might be crossing with their ideas but i guess not

[faint folio]

Maybe the only real difference is your suggestion implements rare resources and common resources

Which honestly... I think would be a good addition. Right now there's not really any reason to have conflict between herbis or limited herd sizes, beyond normal clique behavior and just wanting to go murder all the other dinosaurs for entertainment

If there were rare resources at least I could say that well, maybe my killer just REALLY needed that marigold

[gusty patrol]

truee, though now that i think of it, it might also make mixpacking worse- as in betrayal and carnivores sticking with herbis

[faint folio]

Mixpacking will happen, regardless

Simply because people want to play with their friends and aren't going to kill their 4-5 hour grow just to play what their friends are playing

[gusty patrol]

bummer though, cuz ill keep trying to kill their friends for the sake of others. couldve played on another server.. but yeah. i am really excited though what and how the new migration system will affect!

[faint folio]

Yeah, me too! I'm sure eventually we'll get a mechanic to help with mixpacking. But in the meantime, we can take care of it the old fashioned way-- force a respawn so they can join their friends on the same dino

[gusty patrol]

i feel like in the beginning the stat of every dino will be a bit tricky, seeming that every hexagon gives a different buff

[gusty patrol]

of course!

at least there’ll be coming changes with bodyguarding herbis soon. think that was in the devblog aswell so, getting closer :)

[uneven mist]

@hasty dagger I liked that suggestion a lot but idk about the tail attack, cera doesn’t seem to have a tail that’s meant to attack stuff

[hasty dagger]

That’s why I made it less of a Teno type thing and more of a quick silencer

Minimal damage, just gets something off your ass

[worn kraken]

@hasty dagger I had a look at your doc on cerato. Nice one! The first comment I’d make is maybe on the weight, which I assume would be fit better in the 1000-1200 kg range but this is just my view), and for the bite basic damage probably ok, but maybe I’d extend the range of possibilities to find a good fit once the other playable species stats will be known …let’s say 130-150/160

[hasty dagger]

I can definitely broaden the range of both health and damage, they’re meant to be just basic suggestions so ofc they’re free to change if needed

[faint folio]

@molten dock that's a little hard to do atm with only 9 playables... But I think canni diet will be lot less common in the future as more dinos are added (diets tend to be revised every time a new critter is released)

[molten dock]

i suppose but its really annoying to play carno or deino atm because thats all any of them d

[faint folio]

If for nothing else than just building a food web where each playable has plenty of predator/prey relationships with other playables

Deino I suspect will be canni for a good while (until things that fill out the aquatic ecosystem to hunt deino are added, other deinos are basically the only threat to swimming deinos)

Carno has a better chance of getting canni removed soon because it can be hunted by other mid tiers like cerato that are coming out soonish

[molten dock]

yeah i know but its just such a pain when you die to a group of 3 full adult deinos that are canni

[faint folio]

I know

Having experienced it myself

[molten dock]

its all the time tho just ugh

they changed the map to force dinos to the rivers and yet deinos still prefer to hunt other deinos making the deino basically pointless atm

[faint folio]

Honestly I think most apex carnivores will have canni diets because it's an easy way to limit group behavior and apex populations. Unfortunately, carno is the land "apex" and deino is the water "apex" at the moment

[molten dock]

yeah the land apex isnt anywhere near the water one atm but still

i know the game isnt finished and all and i like the way they're doing it where they make everything work first instead of adding a ton of stuff like they did with legacy

[faint folio]

Personally I only hunt deino when I'm starving and have no other choice... Or if another deino is being extremely rude/ugly in chat

[molten dock]

but its so annoying

[molten dock]

if im starving and cant find food i just log and com back later

[faint folio]

Depends on what the server is like tbh. If the pop is above 80 I will stay and canni. Below I prefer to log

Because usually when population is high but you don't find any land dinos to eat, it's because there's 15-20 deinos swimming around in my experience

[molten dock]

i just dont like to canni unless its already dead from like a stego or something

[molten dock]

i suppose that as well

even then i prefer to just log off or make a big group and see where it goes usually a stego comes up and weeds out the idiots

[faint folio]

Honestly I hope they design the new map such that it encourages more water interactions, while allowing enough branching for deinos to hide from each other. Right now if a group of cannis roll up not a lot you can do to get away

[molten dock]

no i got away for a minute by targeting one of them and running off when he peeled off but they just came back

honestly should've just killed their buddy

[faint folio]

For example, since teno actually IS a semi aquatic, only spawning ash on the islands or in shallow water in the SE swamp. Rather than all over the fields.

[molten dock]

of course they're also teasing the bary and such as well

bary and sucho would be great

i feel like the kaprosuchus or even the sarcosuchus could be fun in game as well

[faint folio]

That would encourage more deinos to inhabit swamp with it's many branching channels, which is good for evading cannis. Plus it gives tenos a reason to use their swim speed

[molten dock]

tru

[stable rain]

Kapro and sarco would just be juvi and sub deino

[molten dock]

sarcho yes

kapro no kapros can gallop

[stable rain]

and that is unique by

[molten dock]

making able to hunt on land and avoid deinos

[faint folio]

Well kapro was primarily land based and chased down prey, so it would play differently from deino

[stable rain]

Bary 2.0

[faint folio]

It's one of the few terrestrial crocodilians with a hunting strategy to match

[molten dock]

bary is similar but bigger

i still feel kapro would be interesting for them to add

cause it would be different enough from the other croc types to be fun

[stable rain]

So wait you basically just want a faster and weaker deino

[molten dock]

yes

[stable rain]

*juvi deino

[molten dock]

nah juvi deino isnt able to do anything

a kapro would be much bigger

and really fast

[stable rain]

Juvi deino is fast and decently powerful (40%)

[molten dock]

it really isnt vs anything on land currently

kapro would be able to take down carnos prolly

[stable rain]

What in tarnation are you on

[molten dock]

you cant hunt on land with a juvie deino and you cant run away from a bigger deino either

[stable rain]

Juvi deinos are faster and have more stam than adult deinos

[molten dock]

not in the water they're much slower true you can run away on land but then a carno whips on you

plus you can only be a juvie deino for so long

[stable rain]

*can fight carnos btw

I mean i dont get it what would make it’s niche special from sucho, bary, deino, etc

[molten dock]

i just said probably

it would be a small fast croc none of those things listed are like that

it would be like a utah that can swim

[stable rain]

That really doesn’t seem special, there is already a fast small teir (utah)

[molten dock]

but the kapro could swim and it small yet a similar weight

so it could hide more easily and it would give the utah something to compete with at its own weight class

[stable rain]

Again does that seem special enough of a niche to be added over?

Just being fast and able to swim

[molten dock]

i didnt mean right now there arent that many "niches" in real life

[stable rain]

That’s literally beipi if it was size of a utah

[molten dock]

everything falls into a few categories even with dinos

[molten dock]

but it isnt

[stable rain]

Again how, beipi is decently fast or is meant to be decently fast onland and fast in water

[molten dock]

but the kapro is also like4 times the size

[stable rain]

I mean i dig the idea but I personally just dont think kapro would fit in

[molten dock]

more like 2.5-3 times

dude theres already things that dont fit it the game/overlap in capabilities in legacy

[stable rain]

Thats why legacy was flawed

Besides the glitches and broken combat

[molten dock]

and people still love to play them it may not be completely different but it would be different enough for people that play that similar thing that they could play both so they dont just have one thing to play

i see no reason it wouldnt fit

[stable rain]

I mean im just saying that what would make it special, what would make it not just out classed since bary is or was decently fast on land and in water much stronger and it just seems like it would get shadowed by bary and other semi aquatics

[molten dock]

the same reason people play utah which i smaller and slower and less powerful than other land creatures

its small and fairly quick it would hunt smaller stuff which i think would be fun especially with the fact that its a crocodilian thats really fast

plus eventually i feel like they'd add a ton of overlapping dinos so you can pick and choose and there would be a food web and such

probably seems that way with how they're treating evrima anyways

and im all for it that sounds amazing

[faint folio]

That's already going to be a problem with the evrima roster too. Several theropods are likely gonna be very similar. For example-- what is going to be the difference between sucho, spino, and bary? Alberto, allo, and acro?

Anyways... Half the issue is that they're trying to give things feasible hunting styles at least loosely based on what abilities they are known to have irl. For example, megalania is getting venom. The issue is, they're pulling from several different ecosystems and only one species can fill each niche

[molten dock]

i feel like they could (if they want to take the time for it) have multiple ecosystems on the map like an ARK map

and being outside of that ecosystem would not be good for whatever dino you are

i would love to play that but it would be a ton to do for the devs

[stable rain]

💀

[faint folio]

So like, we have a niche for a large semi-aquatic carnivore that scavenges, eats fish, and sometimes actively hunts in the shallows. Baronyx, suchomimus, and spinosaurus all filled that exact niche in different geographic areas

[molten dock]

also the difference between spino and sucho would be size but i see wher you're coming from

the would be competition for each other but yeah i get it

they would also have to contend with fully aquatic dinos which i hope they will be adding

[faint folio]

Well okay but honestly in irl ecosystems size doesn't matter that much in terms of filling niches

[molten dock]

idk but that would be cool and take in another group of people that play other dino games

[molten dock]

yeah but for a video game people arent gonna play it like the devs want look at legacy i get its got its problems but people dont play it like evrima

and even in evrima people still dont treat it like real life

not everyone anyways

like acros as far as a google search said hunted like sauropods and ankys and stuff

i feel like it just cant be treated like real life no matter how much they want to which sucks

[faint folio]

Well yeah. But even looking at video games... To some extent having big and small filling the same niche hurts the game. Because why would you play something with low health when you can do the exact same playstyle but with an animal that has 12k health?

[molten dock]

course im not a game dev so wtf do i know

[zealous stone]

Yes but you still have to worry about some playables making others redundant due to a shared playstyle and one ending up being better than the others.

[molten dock]

why do so may people play small dinos on legacy then? when the acro exists

bigger more health still fast and good at taking down small prey despite that not being what the real thing did

[zealous stone]

Also larger roster complicates team play and nesting, unless you limit how many playables each server has.

[stable rain]

Because acro can only be nested and isnt just a normal playable

[molten dock]

so is the bary

yet i see a bunch of them

[faint folio]

Yup exactly my concern. Just because they're small and therefore low health shouldn't make them automatically worse versions of an apex. They ideally need enough difference in playstyle so that they stand on their own as something unique

[molten dock]

i feel like a game like this would just have to have a large player count because of how the game is

[molten dock]

but most dinosaurs end up being similar to each other but slightly different thats just how life works so its either have a small roster and upset people that want different things or have a large roster and let the players figure it out

i feel like legacy failed mostly because of how unfinished it was compared to how evrima is now

even the "finished" dinos just dont come anywhere near evrima dinos

so there just isnt as much to do

everything even if similar in diet and everything would play different in evrima like a carno vs an allo sorta similar size but the carno is a rush down predator where an allo isnt (i think im not a paleontologist)

like a T-rex and a giga are similar sizes and do similar things but they weigh differently and hunt differently same would go for bary sucho spino

probably

[nimble nebula]

I feel like different generations of dinosaurs for example a feathered and unfeathered velociraptor generations with different abilities obviously not all on official servers maybe able to be enabled on unofficial to play as them or something just thought something like this might be a cool addition and a good way to incorporate both ideas

[molten dock]

or maybe only certain dinos are available on certain maps

or like i said earlier in certain places on the map

[nimble nebula]

yea like feathered and unfeathered dinosaurs on different maps like a scaly velo wouldn't quite fit a frozen Icey map

[molten dock]

also for giggles what if there were playable modern animals

[molten dock]

they already kinda had that in legacy with the "velo" and the "utah" being separate creatures along with the austro and herrera

but limiting them to different maps would be interesting

[nimble nebula]

yea agreed and a good idea to bring on to legacy

[molten dock]

nah legacy isnt getting updated as far as i know

everything is being focused on evrima again as far as i know being a random player not a dev

but i feel like either do it like ARK with multiple different maps or have one huge map with different biomes where everything lives separately in their own habitat and leaving that habitat gives you negative effects

or since its yknow a jurassic park situation there's literally walls blocking off the rest of the map from each habitat

that would be awesome but the servers would have to have a massive amount of players in each server which is hard to run

[zealous stone]

Ignoring the obvious issue of server player count to roster size ratio, you could in theory have as many playables in an ecological niche as you have different combinations of mechanics, as its the playstyle that matters and the two are not the same. For example if you have two mid tier small game hunters, but one is an ambush predator and another is pursuit predator, than it should be fine. Addition mechanics in the game can be brought up to allow for futher diversification. An ambush bleeder and ambush damage dealer would likely play differently enough to both appeal to different players. A semi-aquatic fracture based ambush predator will potentially appeal to different players than a land facture based ambush predator. I could go on and on about this. However the problem is when you have a lot of members of the roster that have similar designs, and thus would make sense having similar abilities. I mean what are they going do, have Spino's claw attack sacrifice dealing good bleed damage for fractures? I doubt that, but the problem is Sucho and Bary probably also going to have bleed based claw attacks, because thats what their designs imply. They are also going to be semi-aquatic predators, and to balance that out they will probably be a mediocre at best when trying to hunt on land, and act mostly defensively there, and do I have to go on further.

[molten dock]

the sucho and bary are different because the bary is much faster while weighing less i believe correct me if im wrong

but other than that yeah i totally agree and if you added the habitat thing on top of that that would be perfect