Feedback on Fission Line (Fission Reactor and all the recipes)

[glad lance]

How easier did it get when you made your uranium reactor?
After I craft it and make ammonium formate automation now my Mars base actually can power itself and have big buffer so i will not need to bring charged lapotrons again probably(at least before looking at infinites)

Damn, now it seems I don't have enough ammonium bcs I voided some dust(with voiding overflow) to process all that radioactive steam

[sudden hound]

the ammonium is free, it comes with your mars water

[glad lance]

Is 3 IV recipes intended for plutonium rods? So players probably should use substation and probably 4x EV superconductors?

[proud shale]

yeah intended

power management

[glad lance]

https://tenor.com/view/h2di-cat-dead-cat-depressed-cat-laying-gif-11402833644907079653

[glad lance]

Btw why tho nuclear turbines doesn't give u distilled water

[proud shale]

It's a bother to manage and is useless on Mars

but something is coming other than distilled water

hopefully the new voiding thing will work on the nuclear turbine

[glad lance]

I didn't have regular steam turbine so that would be nice for me. And also u need some distilled water for refined nuclear residue dust

[proud shale]

yeah it won't happen sorry

balance issues

true I forgot you actually use distilled water I think there is a steam output somewhere

that was my initial idea but well

[glad lance]

For me this 1B of steam seems too misarble and 1B of steam is like 6? mb of distilled water so u anyway need other source

But if u have other things, I'll be looking forward to it.

[nimble sphinx]

@woven plinth: There's graphite moderators and framed glacial wool

See the EMI tab for reactor components

[woven plinth]

but they cant give 880 heat resistance for reactor?

[nimble sphinx]

Oh, true. Single U is 200%?

[woven plinth]

220

[nimble sphinx]

Ah. I misspoke then. Only one rod :(

[woven plinth]

Thats alr

[nimble sphinx]

There was an idea of letting the heat have a larger scale, but it would mean rebalancing everything

[woven plinth]

i tried to play with cooling recipes (ice, and fluorine thingy), but they dont seems to do anything tbh

[glad lance]

А ты material holder-ы внутри ставил?

[nimble sphinx]

You installed material holders?

[woven plinth]

Yes

[nimble sphinx]

The reactor said 0 for processing heat stat?

The effect is quite low

[woven plinth]

I dont remember honestly, but heat kept going up

[nimble sphinx]

A couple HU/t per holder

[woven plinth]

I thought for a moment it worked but it was just reactor cooldown lol

[nimble sphinx]

Probably not enough to run two U even with 20 holders

[woven plinth]

Yeah

[nova basin]

I think that this cat has a side queat for me

[glad lance]

Refr pellet gives -40T for 30sec
Dry ice is useless if u have graphite rods

Why tho I was convinced that u can hold 2 U with 20 good graphte rods

[limber terrace]

We started over when Patch 0.11 landed, we were in IV already but we like the idea to progress through EV as it was very boring in a way.

We are having fun with the new quest line progression but we noticed that we have been making a lot of EV circuits with the crappy recipe.

We both talked about it, we think that the HV and EV Nano Circuits should not be gated by the Fusion Reactor progression.
We have been making a lot of EV Circuits and it sucks big time and by the time we are done with the EV progression then on the end, we get NANO circuits … it feels a bit silly to go through this whole painful experience just to get a better EV Circuit on the END of the EV Progression quest line.

Maybe it would be a great idea to at least give us a way to make HV and EV Nano Circuits before Fission but make it cheaper to make after Fission.

Its more about the Epoxy Circuit boards and components.

we are just casual TFG gamers, so automation is not at its best right now, so it is a pain in the ass to constantly go back to MV then HV circuits just to make EV circuits every time.

[sudden hound]

could you elaborate more on what you mean by the epoxy circuit board and components?

[limber terrace]

oh didnt write more about it, sorry. Lost train of thought there. I wanted to say we have all the other components ready, Epoxy Circuits included but we can only make the nano circuits on the end of the EV tree. IV and LuV circuits should be gated but not the others.

I was thinking to put a specific wire that we need to make the IV Circuits, so replace the Nano CPU Wafter location with that wire and move the Nano Wafer after the Alloy Blast Smelter, so it is required for something that the Fussion Reactor requires.

[sudden hound]

I think nanos should still be only craftable post-fission, but I'm not against making the micros a bit cheaper with some of those components

that being said, we do want people to start scaling up their infrastructure in HV-EV

otherwise if you wait too long, EV/IV will hit you like a brick wall

[limber terrace]

thats the thing, I have all the components. I am making Plastic Circuit Boards from Polytetrafluoroethylene. I have a lot of resources, even making the MV and HV Circuits is not expensive for me

its just I made now about 200+ HV Circuits for EV circuits

I make a lot of Super Tanks tier 3 and also tier 2, so I run out of circuits so quickly.

I guess you can argue that I should have this automated by now and is true. I just felt it is a pitty to only get the good circuit on the end of EV but I guess it is the same for HV right.

[sudden hound]

new circuits are intentionally near the end of the tier yeah

[glad lance]

He means that it seems a bit strange that the whole EV u should make microprocessors, while on other tiers u can unlock new type of circuits pretty early (usually mid-tier+-)

[limber terrace]

yeah, I get it that IV and LuV is gated behind Fussion Reactor, that is the entry to your next tier

its just HV and EV Nano Circuits that do not need MV circuits is also gated so far back

[sudden hound]

I mean we gotta put the new space progression somewhere, and circuits are one of the easiest places for that

[limber terrace]

I still need to make MV Circuits so far deep into EV, that feels out of place

if you make a new recipe that we can make HV Circuits without any MV, yeah that might be a good one too and maybe still keep the EV ratio 2 for HV for 1 EV

I am having a blast with the EV quest progression, it is super fun, it is a lot more fun than the previous EV quest tree

[sleek chasm]

I've never had problems with circuit crafting although granted my ae2 system is on crack

and resources isnt really an issue with large miners

[limber terrace]

I have no resource problem, I have a crap ton of everything

its just I am lazy as F with AE2 automation, I have my item vaults full of stuff and I use the interfaces, its just that I do not have the crafting setup, I usually get that running in IV

[glad lance]

I mean It seems a bit strange for me but I don't have any ideas how to make it other way and it wasn't like a problem
For me a lot things seems strange but I guess this is just GT thingy

[nimble sphinx]

Maybe this is a bit comparable to superconductors? They are rewarded at the end of tier. But SoCs are two tiers away.

[proud shale]

You are the exact reason why the EV chapter is the way it is.

And you answer your own question

You are lacking automation so it’s troublesome for you to progress at that point and crafts the circuits

The whole point of the EV chapter is to test your infra and push you to automate everything. You say usually try to automate your factory late IV and that’s precisely what was being fixed in Gregtech progression

So I would like to say thank you for letting me know that the EV chapter does exactly what I was trying to do 😂

And I advise you to start automating. There won’t be any changes here.

[limber terrace]

ok fine! I will automate it in EV! damnit! 😉

[sudden hound]

what do we think about doing something with the epoxy boards earlier? 🤔

[glad lance]

I think u need ev circ assembler rn for it

[proud shale]

No real reasons why?

[sudden hound]

idk just an idea

[limber terrace]

Epoxy Circuit for HV that does not require MV 😉

[proud shale]

Circuit boards really are only useful for circuits I think it’s fine

[proud shale]

The first hv circuit you mean?

It’s already the case isn’t it

Epoxy are the boards for nano circuits

[limber terrace]

my biggest issue is that at the mid stage of EV, I still have to make MV circuits to make HV ones.

I was just hoping it was possible to come up with a solution to make that less annoying, the only solution right now is to get Nano

[proud shale]

I already answered

The only annoying thing you are being confronted to

Is that you didn’t automate

You can’t get the chapter reward at the beginning of the chapter

[sleek chasm]

you get the ability to make cheaper lv and mv circuits at the end of mv, two tiers later you get the ability to make cheaper hv circuits, I dont think its that big of an issue

[limber terrace]

I am not talking about at the beginning of the champer, I was talking about mid chaper to get at least one thing already. Not all the rewards on the end.

[sleek chasm]

what would mid chapter be?

[limber terrace]

for me, once you are on Mars and get Ostrum ore

or once you have the Alloy Blast Smelter

[sleek chasm]

so basically when you can process ostrum? you're not that far off from nano circuits then

[limber terrace]

hmm, that I do not agree with you

[lofty tree]

you always get the better circuits at the end of a tier no?

[limber terrace]

yes we do but I just think it is weird that you get 3 new nano circuits on the end of the tier, nothing wrong to maybe give a circuit recipe that you do not have to make that was 2 tier old recipe

but it is just my opinion, use it or lose it. I am still having fun, I was just bring up a suggestion and if people do not agree, that is ok. Wont stop me from moving forward

EV is actually very exciting

EV was a boring tier for me, now it is way more interesting.

[glad lance]

I think as an idea make HV and EV nano circs crafts without nanocpu and without req ev circ assembler, but make IV nano circ req nanocpu

Oh, rn the only reason to craft hv circ assembler is IV mainframe, which u will craft probably 2 only for EC circ assembler

[proud shale]

Yeah I understand you but I won't change it

they are nano for a reason

can't remove the nano part of nano circuits :p

[glad lance]

So rn it looks smth like this

[glad lance]

xd

[proud shale]

the Mainframe is not HV but EV actually

[glad lance]

It's tier of circ assembler req

[proud shale]

Nanos use a HV Circuit Assembler don't they?

[glad lance]

no

[proud shale]

oh right

mb

[sudden hound]

I can't remember what the HV circass was even used for before our changes - the micro circuits being so weird is a big part of the problem lol

and that's a base gt thing

[glad lance]

you are dev here, get to work and stop shift your responsibilities on others, I have reported to you bug and gave you logs feature idea and clear information when and how it occurs, you should reproduce it, analyze it, fix it and release it. instead of working you only yapping and insult your customers

[proud shale]

There is 99% chance that nothing change in EV progression anyway

next update is already bringing some changes making it overall easier

[sudden hound]

aren't there some makes-earlier-circuits-cheaper recipes that the hv circass unlocks? like that really cheap ulv and lv one?

[proud shale]

yeah these are weird because they don't have SoC equivalent I guess

[nova basin]

i don't think so

[sudden hound]

hmm

[lofty tree]

its ev

[proud shale]

oh they do have a soc equivalent

[sudden hound]

maybe that's something that could be mentioned in the quests for the ev circass 🤔

[nova basin]

hv circuit assembler is basically useless then

and from late mv to late ev theres nothing?

[lofty tree]

i always just made hv circass just to have easier wiring and its faster so why not

but yeah nothing really new

[sudden hound]

we could maybe change the micro ev circuit to require the hv one

[proud shale]

I'm lost

what's the issue?

[lofty tree]

a not-really-big-issue of hv circuit ass not having any real use

[proud shale]

yeah it's fine

[sudden hound]

I think part of the reason for the inconsistency is how the circass goes from an expensive end-of-tier machine, to just another machine you can make really early in the tier

[proud shale]

the inconsistency is native to GTceu

it's fixed itself at Nano circuit

[sudden hound]

it's not really a problem, there's lots of other machines you don't upgrade every tier

[proud shale]

and I mean looking at the amount of circuit you need

you need to be really dumb to not grab the HV one

so it's not like it's useless

[glad lance]

Rn u need upgrade it justt for instantly upgrade it

[sudden hound]

my only thought is maybe we could do something like, hv circass + epoxy boards => slightly cheaper mv micros, just to ease things out a bit

[proud shale]

nah

impossible

drastically and totally impossible

utterly impossible

[sudden hound]

like I agree that the other guy just really needed to upgrade his infra

[nova basin]

but you can technically just make 8 mv ones or smth

[proud shale]

You give too much importance to individual feedback

[proud shale]

make 8 HV ones :p

that's what I did

Balance should only happen if we have an overwhelming amount of feedback asking the same thing

up until now we never had anyone complaining about that

[nova basin]

not all people have played gregtech before and know how much infra they need

[proud shale]

and Pastualio is themself saying they have no automation

but are still having fun and will automate more to solve their issue

if you ask me this is peak game design 😂

[sudden hound]

a lot of people also just silently grumble about things without asking if it's intentional - like it took several months before someone pointed out that the ae2 quests required universal circuits to be crafted

[proud shale]

that's why EV is here

to teach them

Peak game design I'm telling you

👌

[glad lance]

While I was playing EV and reporting things, I wasn't even sure that some1 actually played the modpack in EV bcs I was reporting some things first

[nova basin]

weird, because some time ago i played with him on same server and he had way more automation than me on that tier

[proud shale]

No changes incomming

[limber terrace]

it depends how we look at automation. I have a lot of big distilleries running, I have almost every liquid ready to make something, it is just I have to manually put in the components to make the MV circuit

[sudden hound]

ae2 should be doing that for you

[nova basin]

but still seems weird that theres a hole in circuit progression for 2 tiers

[proud shale]

there is no hole

well if you want to complain go complain to GTceu

I'm not remaking their whole circuit progression

it's a shit show to balance and moving first IV was already rough enough

It's the way it's always has been in GTceu

so if changes are needed go ask them to change it

[sudden hound]

I mean if we really wanted to, we could completely change how circuit progression works so every tier is consistent

[limber terrace]

I was not asking for remaking the whole circuit progression. I was just wondering if it was possible to add something like we have for the LV-Circuit in EV tier but for HV too.

[sudden hound]

we don't have to stick to gtceu progression in that way

[limber terrace]

but I understand that it is tied to Gtceu, so its cool

[sudden hound]

but it would be very annoying to change and balance lol

[glad lance]

https://tenor.com/view/lie-lie-detector-cap-you-are-lying-stop-lying-gif-12198388917433403789

[graceful patio]

Poor hv circuit assembler, nearly useless if it werent for ae2

[glad lance]

But as I said, It kinda is not intuitive but not hard with proper infra
And I didn't even know isn't it's actually Gt's problem

[proud shale]

that's a soc skip

Anyway!

Everything is fiiiiiine

Pastulio gonna begin autocrafting a bit earlier

and everyone is happy

[limber terrace]

whats this autocrafting? can I eat it ?

[nova basin]

though i don't really know how can someone not make autocrafting the moment its available

[limber terrace]

I got to IV without autocrafting! 😉

[proud shale]

yeah

that won't happen anymore :p

that's like the main goal of EV

so thank you

work is well done

[sleek chasm]

apart from the time I made guns, making the first fuel rods is probably the only time I manually crafted everything after I got ae2 setup lol

[nova basin]

after crafting units were reverted to hv i would say you want it even before going to mars

[limber terrace]

The thing is, I always went with autocrafting with AE2 when I was playing with 1.12.2 and Thermal expansion and Industrialcraft but TFG has so many fun stuff and a lot of things to do

I guess I just put autocrafting at the lower requirements 😉

[glad lance]

I wanted wrote it earlier but didn't send message.
Btw it will be nice if we could get a few extended pattern providers earlier 👉 👈
This is not directly necessary, but for some machines(like assembler or bender) you need a lot of pattern providers and the bottleneck is amount of patterns
But as I said, this is more of a wish than a necessity.

What I want to write actually is the next question. Do u sure that multiply amount of compressed steam that much was good idea? It seems that u cannot provide enough steam for max turbine output (HSS-g ev rotor holder) if u use 1 ev input hatch, input hatch will be your bottleneck. Also throughput of quad pipes is silly if we look at that amount of steam. And Heat exchanger flashing too bcs of speed of recipe and buffer size(in ev quad hatch). So u haven't any option except ae and ae hatches where u can use them

[sudden hound]

why quad hatches/pipes?

[glad lance]

U cannot use other hatches in heat exchanger

like me or multiple hatches

And I thought this change should have made you think about throughput, but with changes like these there is no choice but AE

[sudden hound]

that doesn't sound right 🤔

[proud shale]

I may have forgot about quad hatches lol

EV Input hatches should work though

For the Pattern providers the answer is no it's gated at IV so you can redo your factory at that point

suffer

I will have a look at the steam flowrate

[proud shale]

Eh I suffered too

I played without the Ex Pattern Providers until IV

I know the pain

but I think it's good overall for the modpack

[woven plinth]

Surfer

[heady brook]

Does Fission's energy generation depends on heat or the amount of rods in the reactor? When I read the quest book I understood it as the rods amount, but when I try it in single player it depends on the heat.

[glad lance]

I may be wrong, but in general it depends on the amount of heat, which in turn depends in particular on the number of rods

[heady brook]

so for Thorium then the optimum amount of rods is 3 rods for glacian wool frame right? How about Uranium?

[glad lance]

U can't handle more than 1 rod without active cooling

[heady brook]

So if I want maximum energy output, then I shouldn't do active cooling right?

[glad lance]

I didn't quite understand this that good, but I thinks yeah unless active cooling will stop reactor from cooldown mod(U will need refrigerator pellets for at least first plutonium rod)

[heady brook]

ahh ok. Thanks for the help! The fission quest book has been very difficult for me to understand

[proud shale]

Power is made through steam

Don’t hesitate to give feedback on what you didn’t understand

I could try to make the quests a bit better

[nimble sphinx]

@heady brook There's also a quite a bit of text in the gregtech energy quest chapter

[heady brook]

I think the heat coolants most efficiently part messed with my understanding. In my head I interpret that as lower temperature means more energy output and higher temperature means more radioactive waste.

[heady brook]

also it might be better to have the quest book have a tldr at the first paragraph saying more heat = more steam = more energy. more heat = thorium rod runs out faster. It took me a while trying to understand the current explanation

[limber terrace]

Is it possible to put the Irradiated Steam + Water and the Radioactive Steam + water recipe on the same Circuit Setting for the Heat Exchanger, right now they are on two different Circuit settings ?

[glad lance]

I thought Irradiated Steam (Plutonium one) doesn't require any Circuit, Is it?

[limber terrace]

yeah but it would be nice if both are on the same, then it will be easier to manage

[glad lance]

Huh? wdym
If recipe doesn't have circ it means it can be done with any circ

So rn u can use Plutonium Steam in 1 heat exchanger with uranium steam regardless how u refine Uranium steam

[limber terrace]

cool, will check it out, I am out of Pellets, so I will try that and check it out

[glad lance]

And tbh I didn't even see any reason to use uranium steam without ammonium thingy

[limber terrace]

unless you ran out of that and you need the steam

[glad lance]

uhm. I didn't run out of it and I think u will actually have more energy bcs u get plutonium

[proud shale]

You really should have a dedicated Heat Exchanger for each reactor

[proud shale]

There is a less deep quests in the EV chapter

[glad lance]

rn size of input hatch is bottleneck which u can't solve easily
BCs of no me hatch and absurd amount of steam

[proud shale]

Oh yeah I have to fix that one

I need to change the structure I think

[limber terrace]

yeah, you need to put a Epilepsy warning on the Heat Exchanger for now 😉

[glad lance]

I can leave these 2 issues on github if u want and if it will help u to not forget xd

[proud shale]

I don’t know if I want to allow ME Hatch though

But something needs to be done yeah

[glad lance]

Why no?

[sudden hound]

is that such a good idea? I thought we wanted to reduce multiblock spam lol, like with donut stacking

[proud shale]

you really should with how it works

that's like 2 heat exchanger for your whole play through

I don't think it's that much spam

you gonna have 4 or 5 fission reactors on Mars

what is 2 heat exchangers

[sudden hound]

4 or 5 fission reactors

[proud shale]

it's like titanium line you have dedicated ebf for it 🤷‍♂️

that's nothing :p

1 for thorium, 1 for uranium, 1 for plutonium and 1 or 2 for tbu

[limber terrace]

why would we need 4-5? Is it because of the IV quest line ?

[proud shale]

then maybe later you want a californium reactor on mars to speed up the OLA

[proud shale]

TBU is for energy on earth

you need to process it on mars

then late game you may want a Ca Reactor

because it can boost greatly the speed at which OLA is running

and yeah you will OLA for IV

and definitely for end game UV

[limber terrace]

my biggest challenge now is to have enough storage for all the Steam on Mars, producing so much!

[proud shale]

yeah :p

well i do like it better now

it makes more sense

you should try to feed into turbine asap

and stores the energy in a PSS

[sudden hound]

as long as the others are "optional" and the requirement for progression is only 3, I think that's an ok limit

[proud shale]

During EV you make 3 Fission Reactors and 2 Heat Exchangers yeah

after that you may want to do more

but yeah it's optional

[sudden hound]

if you wanna do fission for powergen then more is ok, like how people spam turbines or engines or crackers or whatever

[proud shale]

though it may becomes kinda necessary at UV?

the advantage of fission reactor though

is that it scales by itself

[sudden hound]

just not silly levels of donut spam where the actual multi itself is absurdly expensive lol

[proud shale]

so you never gonna need to spam them

yeah i don't like spam of big multiblocks

Also there is always option

for example if you want to make Americium rods

you need to run your fission at low level of heat

you can either spam the fission reactor so they all work with 1 fission rods

[limber terrace]

btw, I would suggest to change the Fusion Reactor design or the quest to let the player know it is better to have quad outputs.

[proud shale]

or you could have only one but with input to cool it down

and then you can run 5 rods at the same time while keeping at low level of heat

[proud shale]

wdym?

[limber terrace]

my first Plutonium Rod didnt output the Tritiated Water because all the Outputs were filled with Irradiated Steam, even though I made sure that the outputs were pushing out the liquids.

[proud shale]

oh yeah that's changed already

[limber terrace]

I could have locked it but the Quad Output stops that from happening

[limber terrace]

great

[proud shale]

they will output the steam and one item

so no conflicts possible anymore

but also you have to manage the heat of your reactor

if it goes in cooldown too often the average heat of the rod will be higher than 9000

and you will only get a very limited amount of tritiated water

each time the reactor goes in cooldown all the rods in it get hit with a 10 000 heat

[limber terrace]

oh so it will output every 16seconds

that is a great change

[proud shale]

no

that's the depleted rod

[limber terrace]

ah ok

[proud shale]

just the processing of the depleted rod

is 16 seconds

[limber terrace]

cool

[sleek chasm]

the quest about plutonium line says that you should void oxygen since you might produce too much of it but if anything it seems like you dont even produce enough oxygen to loop it?

and am I right that you need to input water and hydrogen for it?

[proud shale]

Hydrogen and water yeah from what I remember

Oxygen should be over profuced

You also get steam though

[sleek chasm]

it doesnt really do anything?

theres no steam to water recipes or whatever

[sleek chasm]

the only recipe with oxygen in the line is this

(sorry for borked text, I dont really know whats wrong)

it seems to get worse the more I play

also uh I forgot electrolyzing hf2 gets you hydrogen lol so u dont even need to input hydrogen

just water for distilled water

[sudden hound]

your gpu might be dying

[nova basin]

or maybe just corrupted font files?

[sleek chasm]

well its an intel igpu

I wouldnt be surprised

[sleek chasm]

tom, I can't seem to run one plutonium fuel rod passively even with 600 max heat

I have 20 moderate core frame

[nova basin]

do you input enough heavy water?

[sleek chasm]

yes also I dont think that affects it?

hm wait it does -1 heat

okay I put a parallel hatch on my centrifuge

maybe it works now

ok yep mb

I wasnt producing enough heavy water lol

[sleek chasm]

hmm..

in the mean time I spawned in two oversized interfaces and uhv hatches to process it faster (it still doesnt make a dent)

[rare lava]

[nimble sphinx]

"Please note that due to some C-level decisions even higher up, it is not authorized to install ME busses. You have been warned."

[sleek chasm]

also it seems that you can only put quad output hatches on heat exchanger, which I feel the normal one should also work since irradiated steam and radioactive steam doesnt have a second output

on the bright side, putting a 16a iv hatch did finally make a dent to my irradiated steam production

(needed uhv hatches and oversized interfaces tho)

honestly 160x more steam is a bit ridiculous

[sudden hound]

can't you just like... pipe it out

[sleek chasm]

I already built everything with the assumption I only use ae2, its a bit too late

I might try using tungsten bismuth pipe in a test world tho and see if it do work fine

[rare lava]

Only the quad works? I sounds intentional but idk why

[proud shale]

Yeah it’s all fixed on my branch :p

It’s a bit hard to process the steam into the heat exchanger

I may have push the change without proper testing sorry 😬

I gonna blame Vazde she was the one asking me for more steam 😂

[nimble sphinx]

The fact that normal hatches don't work sure makes it a lot harder to buffer.

Have your tried placing a super on quantum tank auto-outputting to the hatch? That should help a lot, too.

[ornate whale]

So hazardous a recipe the image got radiated

[sudden hound]

something I've seen brought up in chat occasionally is people basically going to mars with their entire mars base in their pocket. Is there something we could do to make people take several trips? or at least, encourage going to mars earlier in EV, even if they aren't setting their base up quite yet?

I keep seeing people do everything in EV besides the circuits, then do all the fission stuff at once

we could do things like put ostrum iodide in a bunch of other required recipes (what about in the EV emitter?), require heavy water/deuterium in something, or some thorium/uranium byproduct

[nova basin]

make each trip take less than 3 centuries

[sudden hound]

ok, go and rewrite ad astra for us then 👍

[graceful patio]

Something like that could potantially work

Though you also gotta consider that you should limit the number of things that have to be transported between one planet to another for everyday progress

Given that the railgun is still broken iirc causing us to have to bring some over manually

[sudden hound]

yeah, these would just be for one-offs

[graceful patio]

Something from mars in the crafting recipe for the fission reactor or along that lines

That could work

[sudden hound]

but then what's stopping you from just bringing the rest of the ingredients for the fission reactor along with you instead?

[proud shale]

I think it’s kinda fine fine for mars with how it’s built

As a players you need to come to mars with your whole base in your pocket and I feel you will do it for every planets and if it’s not in your pocket it will be in your AE2

The rework for the OLA will at a least allows the players to work on the OLA if they are bored rushing the fission line

[graceful patio]

Plus once the railguns properly workin

All you gotta bring with you is a landing pad

And you will probably just be able to have ae2 deliver you anything you could possibly need

[glad lance]

Well, right now, the only thing you maybe will not craft before you fly to Mars is a large centrifuge. Everything else is either needed for the rocket or for quality of life (energy generation and energy storage).

Well, in my opinion, the need for ostrum iodide for progress is already extremely... unpleasant(makes you suffer). Moreover, before it, you still don't have enough energy source ( before uranium steam). And the use of an alternative recipe for uranium steam, in my opinion, hasn't changed anything, since you still need ostrum iodide, and you most likely don't want to lose potential plutonium.

And I have a feeling that such a decision, firstly, could cut off some useful crafts, and secondly... well, at least for now it will provoke the player to skip EV machines

But I'm just sharing feedback and obviously some things may change after Fission update

[sudden hound]

yeah, I'm more thinking of just normal ostrum being used in some things earlier, because that's very simple to setup. Iodine is the one that's more tedious since you have to 1) find the right trees, 2) have a bunch of machines to process it, 3) have liquid air distillation, 4) have a reactor going

we could even do something like change the EV superconductor to a different material, or at least make it require something from mars too :p since people love to rush those

uranium-ostrum-triplatinum, anyone? 😛

[proud shale]

You are becoming more and more devilish Pyritie 😂

But yeah I guess we could add Ostrum to the EV superconductor

[lofty tree]

make the reactor controller itself need ostrum or something if you really want it

[proud shale]

Im a bit unsure about the progression but other cables still work though

[lofty tree]

ev sc isn't really needed

[proud shale]

That’s already true for Heat Exchanger

I think it’s fine how it is right now

Im not sure you can do the mars fission line in a one go

Having to start mars by looking for Ostrum doesn’t really feel good

It’s nicer to start by locating a good spot and building your base

Maybe your first reactor

Then look for Ostrum and sheep

[lofty tree]

even so, like i said ev sc isn't really important for earth base building, its a very nice qol sure but people already use iv cables to transfer power over long distance and just step down

[proud shale]

My guess is that if anyone do all at once it’s because they have an IV assembler or just brute force the reactor

[lofty tree]

its also just hampered by the fact that in order to do anything on mars, you need fission power outright, limits the possible diversions that could be done

[proud shale]

Else it’s just way too difficult

[proud shale]

Well the point is to start with your thorium reactor yeah

[lofty tree]

you're skipping over what pyritie mentioned here i think

what pyritie to extend is the part before even the thorium reactor

cuz once u get a reactor up its not long before you get ostrum and then uranium and then plutonium, i think

sheeps didn't really take that long ime

like i never got to actually ranch them long enough but once you've gathered enough its just a matter of waiting for familarity to raise and shear

[proud shale]

I don’t think it’s that easy to make the fission line

I did it myself on my run and I was the person designing it

And I wasn’t able to do it all at once

[glad lance]

I can note that iodine is currently only used for the heat exchanger (U litteraly need 3? iodine), just like ostrum, except for OLA. I just don't know which will come first on Venus: iodine waste or generation.
But smth like this sounds reasonable

[proud shale]

I don’t really think it’s an issue that players prefer to do everything else before going to mars

For a very obvious reason

You need to do everything else before you can start mars 🤷‍♂️

One thing that could be interesting if we really want the player to be force to travel to mars before fission is making the yttrium only obtainable on Mars

But that will just feel like desh and the moon

Having a change of pace depending of the chapters sounds better to me

For IV you need to go right away on Venus to start the chapter so it will be very different from Mars which is I think nicer

Not every chapters being the same thing

[lofty tree]

i think mars is too finished to make earlier mars trips yeah

[sudden hound]

well that's the part that feels wrong to me, I think it would be more interesting if you didn't just immediately do them in sequence

[proud shale]

Well there is the Ostrum hunt and the sheep hunt

[sudden hound]

yeah, venus will be more iodine hungry

[proud shale]

And with my next changes you will unlock the OLA after the first fission reactor

[sudden hound]

true, the OLA will help

[proud shale]

And the fission line is really really long to setup

[sudden hound]

could use the heavy water for a craft too :p

[proud shale]

Well they have to to get power running

[sudden hound]

yeah

anything else between thorium and the rest? 🤔 cuz like, setting up thorium power and then letting that cook while you set up the rest of your base sounds better

different fuel rod casings... maybe some later casings need the wool or another insulator... or something else needs the thorium byproducts or krypton or something... idk

just throwing out ideas

[proud shale]

Yeah I don’t know honestly I think it’s fine?

Really it took me a lot of time to do the fission line

I had to expand my base with each new reactor

Mine more thorium and uraninite

Find some sheep’s

Make lubricant

Honestly it was quite long

I could make the fission line recipes requires breathable area

But that just seems a bit evil and not that necessary

EV is already quite difficult I’m a bit unsure about increasing the costs

If we really want to break the pace there is one solid option

But its quite original :p

We make it so you can craft the Venus rocket without IV machines but right after you finish your uranium reactor

[sudden hound]

yeah I'm just thinking of ways to break up the wall a bit 🤔

[proud shale]

Also Earth fission can be gated behind uranium reactor

That’s two bigger incentives to take a break and explore the OLA

An other possibility is to add a new plastic behind the OLA or rubber

I mean we could also gate the plutonium reactor behind the OLA

With the change I’m planning on refrigerant pellet

[sudden hound]

🤔 that's an idea

I'm also interested in more of the fission's processing recipes too, like we're doing for iodine lol

[proud shale]

Yeah I’m not a big fan of them compared to the OLA mechanic to be honest

[sudden hound]

probably more after you've got the OLA set up, because then you can keep your reactors running more reliably

haha fair enough

feel free to change the iodine line if you need

[proud shale]

The OLA mechanics will really be glorious

[proud shale]

We could move it from the fission to the OLA

Then the Ola isn’t optional

But mandatory after your thorium reactor

Dunno where would we want it

I would be more encline to having it gating the plutonium reactor

As the uranium reactor is definitely your go to for energy

And keep the iodine in the fission reactor

What do you think if we go towards :

-OLA mandatory for refrigerant pellets
-Ostrum within the EV SC

?

[sudden hound]

(what's SC)

[proud shale]

Superconductor

[sudden hound]

oh right

[proud shale]

Setting up the OLA will be 2 multiblocks

So it’s not a small thing

[sudden hound]

lol what if uranium triplatinum has to be made with the fission crafting

[proud shale]

Heat Battery and OLA and possible an other fission reactor for TBU to run the Ola

[proud shale]

lol why not

[sudden hound]

or, made with the uranium byproducts

[proud shale]

One in the fission reactor and one in the OLA later

There is radon that is unlocked right after the uranium reactor

That could be use for the EV sc

[sudden hound]

true!

lots of options, and I do like keeping to the theme of superconductor being late in a tier

[proud shale]

That sounds good to me

And there is the active transformer at the end of EV too

Could be something we unlock a bit earlier with radon too?

[sudden hound]

keeping UPt as the superconductor material but just changing how it's crafted avoids a lot of world upgrading issues as well lol

[sudden hound]

sure why not, options are good

[unreal falcon]

is the ostrum linear accelerator meant as a tritiated water sink? i thought that's how you'd loop the whole fission line to get more tritiated water but it seems to consume much more than it makes

unless i can't math

[proud shale]

Hmmm

wdym?

[unreal falcon]

i'm asking what the intention of that machine is, cause i was thinking it would be used to "passive" tritiated water in a loop

[proud shale]

Oh I changed it drastically

[unreal falcon]

ah is that in the upcoming rework

[glad lance]

Rn vapor which gives pure uranium and thorium is just a scam

[unreal falcon]

yeah, that's why i was confused what the purpose is

cause on first sight you'd think it's for allowing a loop

[proud shale]

It's now gonna be part of EV Progression

[unreal falcon]

cool

[proud shale]

regarding the ore situation

the further you progress into the fission line the more ores you can get

when using tritiated water to generate the ores

you will produce enough ore to produce more tritiated water that what you use to make the ores

allowing you to have truly infinite fission

[unreal falcon]

okay perfect, that's what i'd have expected

[proud shale]

also gonna put that here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI4INH-LgNI

you will need tremendous amount of thorium to create your fission rods use for power on earth/europa

[unreal falcon]

i already need what feels like tremendous amounts of thorium just to make my funny iv wafers

[proud shale]

uhuh

[sudden hound]

(psst remember that we have the TFG youtube if you want to upload things)

[nova basin]

bro got an entire encyclopedia in his gui

[proud shale]

yeah I was gonna ping Redeix but wanted to do a cleanest setup before posting it

I was just too excited and wanted to share this first preview ahah

[sudden hound]

why dust input and not rods?

[proud shale]

conflict 🙁

oh here

hmm

I could actually

this one I'm a bit screwed

but I change the OLA one

[unreal falcon]

why, can't you restrict the dimension?

if that's for the earth one

[proud shale]

Mars will be your factory for the rods

[unreal falcon]

ah

[proud shale]

but every recipes related directly to power gen can be run on earth

[unreal falcon]

option two is adding a required liquid to the old thorium rod

[proud shale]

hmm wdym?

[unreal falcon]

if all fuel factory recipes need a different liquid

there can't be any conflicts

[proud shale]

it will craft the thorium one

and never the TBU

[unreal falcon]

not if you add a different fluid to the thorium recipe

or add a circuit, but fluid seems more elegant to avoid conflicts

[proud shale]

yeah circuit I prefer not

I mean there is also colored hatches

but yeah I would need to add a fluid I guess

[sudden hound]

different rod casing maybe?

[proud shale]

oh true

didn't think about that

[sudden hound]

would need to recolor redeix's a little, but

[proud shale]

we need to recolor it once for the zirconium version

One rod for fission line

one for americium and neptunum

and the zirco one for californium

and they all are reusable

[sudden hound]

oh the californium one is mid IV?

[proud shale]

yeah it's gonna be gated behind FLiBe

[sudden hound]

ah

do you have redeix's textures? I could recolor them

lmk what to use for the t2 ones too

[proud shale]

Hmmm

what could we use

[sudden hound]

the animated ones too :p

[proud shale]

oh true

https://github.com/TomPlop/Modpack-Modern/tree/fission_energy_rework/kubejs/assets/tfg/textures/item/fission_rod

that may be easier lol

so we can have:

Thorium/Uranium/Plutonium being T1
TBU/Americium/Neptunium being T2
Californium being T3 (Zirco)

[sudden hound]

do you have a californium texture already or do you need one

or americium

[proud shale]

they all have texture but they all share the same colour for the enveloppe

[sudden hound]

so all of these should be the t2 rod texture

[proud shale]

yeah all the ones I sent are T2 texture

I just don't know what we could use

[sudden hound]

also lol I just realised why the americium one is different colors

[proud shale]

it's a bit rainbow

it has the usa colour I think lol

[sudden hound]

it's red white and blue 🇺🇸 🦅 🗽 🎆

this color is very neon btw 😂

[proud shale]

yeah the colors can be tweak if you want

I just set some stuffs and didn't think much of it

[sudden hound]

yeah I'd like to make it more similar to the other GT americium, like a lighter version (since we're using that sorta pattern for other isotopes)

[proud shale]

yeah that's not a bad idea

it's really deep deep blue

the other ones are fine I think

[sudden hound]

why neptunium turquoise when neptune is a blue planet? lol

[proud shale]

T1 is cobalt and lead

I guess americium was already blue lol

[sudden hound]

lol I look up what other materials are used for them irl and I keep seeing zirconium

[proud shale]

zirconium is fucking everywhere

I'm asking a friend who's nuclear engineer

[sudden hound]

beryllium is a candidate but it's not a pipe

[proud shale]

I mean we could always change it a bit

lead as an ingot in the first one

we keep cobalt pipe

[sudden hound]

yeah or just use a bunch of plates

[proud shale]

and then we can have cobalt pipe and berry plate

or bunch of plates

[sudden hound]

Control rods are used in nuclear reactors to control the rate of fission of the nuclear fuel – uranium or plutonium. Their compositions include chemical elements such as boron, cadmium, silver, hafnium, or indium, that are capable of absorbing many neutrons without themselves decaying.

CADMIUM MENTIONED 📣

[proud shale]

Let’s put cadmium lol

[sudden hound]

cadmium + beryllium?

[proud shale]

sounds good

though I think cadmium only exists as dust

we may not really care though

[sudden hound]

easy enough to make a plate for it

[proud shale]

sure I'm more opposed about making new pipes/wires/etc...

but plates we don't really care

[sudden hound]

ah I don't think I can do these texture recolors without the originals lol there's too many layers

I made some empty ones though

@tidal quest do you have the templates for your fuel rod textures still?

[tidal quest]

Yeah I do

[tidal quest]

Did you need it? Or do you want me to do something?

[sudden hound]

either I can use them or I can pass them to you if you want to do it

[tidal quest]

I don't mind. What is the goal?

[sudden hound]

just recoloring some of the new 4

different empty rod texture, different color for americium and neptunium

[woven plinth]

helo

wait thats wrong chat, crap

[sudden hound]

this one with #10B193, #223BB1, and whatever color we want to use for TBU? keeping the magenta is fine

and then this one with #ffba00

[tidal quest]

Hol up. I'm trying to read behind in the chat but I feel like I'm not understanding. So we want a whole new empty rod texture for all of the materials? Different colors for americium and neptunium? (Hating on the red white and blue smh) New base rods? Idk I'm confused

[sudden hound]

keeping the existing textures for the thorium, uranium, and plutonium rods

new empty rods for the other 4, mostly to avoid recipe conflicts I guess? and gate the final one until halfway through venus

[tidal quest]

Ohhh. Empty rods not depleted rods?

[sudden hound]

we can keep the red white blue on the americium one if you want :p but I'm gonna change the other material color to match the GT americium (just lighter, to match other isotopes)

[sudden hound]

no I mean we're making new empty rod items

[tidal quest]

Okay that makes more sense

[sudden hound]

so the filled/depleted rod items will need texture recolors

and I'm happy to do it because I know it's us being indecisive lol

[tidal quest]

Yeah, I think I'll just share the file lol

That way you both can play around however you like

I think I know what you are asking for tho

I'm pretty sick rn so my brain is in battery saving mode

[sudden hound]

uh oh!

hope you get better soon 🙏

[proud shale]

no no we like the americium :p

hope you get better!

rough times in Minnesota it seems

big love towards you ❤️

[tidal quest]

Thank you. Yeah things are pretty scary right now. Also very cold.

[sudden hound]

exploding trees!

[proud shale]

If we redo the crafting of the empty rod to have the three tiers

I wonder if I should add a chance to lose the enveloppe

like a 1% or 5% chance

[sudden hound]

I think fission is hard enough as it is :p

[proud shale]

yeah but it could be a small material sink or something

maybe it's not needed

[sudden hound]

I don't think it's needed, people are just gonna be annoyed at needing to set up passives for it and all that lol

[proud shale]

yeah you may be right

that doesn't feel like a necessary passive line

just a bothering one

[sudden hound]

yeah

[proud shale]

I'm getting some viable numbers

[proud shale]

@sudden hound

Couldn't Zirconium one be a bit on the white side

[sudden hound]

it could, I just color picked from the zirconium color ingame

but that's also for pure zirconium. Idk which material we want to use for the rods

zirconium on top, zircon is the pinkish one, zircon diboride is the greenish one

(zircon diboride is post-bromine, and it's what we'll use for the HSS-Z coils)

[sudden hound]

hmm... is the beryllium green too bright?

[proud shale]

I can try a bit darker

even with Redeix perfect files I'm not the best ahah

[sudden hound]

#1427051163332771942 message try this one, it's more grey at the ends

[proud shale]

yeah but I need to redraw

let me see

here by using the texture you made

[sudden hound]

I think that's better, what do you think?

[proud shale]

yeah looks cool

[sudden hound]

#1427051163332771942 message the one here also has grey at the ends

[proud shale]

much better

what do you think?

[sudden hound]

looks good I think!

[nova epoch]

The quest book indicates that if there isn't an available output on the fission reactor for the radioactive waste then it will void it. EMI says that the waste is a product from the fuel factory and not the fission reactor. This is on 11.20.

[nova epoch]

Me; having built the high pressure steam turbine: "Why isn't this working?"
Also me; having only used petro combustion fuels on earth: "lol, you have to put the rotor in the rotor holder"

Also also me, who lives in the blue steel diving suit on earth: "lol, high pressure steam pipes are hot."

[proud shale]

ooh thanks that's a typo

I forgot to change it

[nova epoch]

Also, why the choice to void it? Normally if an output doesn't exist on a multi, the recipe just doesn't run. Feels like a mean gotcha for those who didn't read the quest carefully enough.

[proud shale]

you aren't really running a recipe

try to get the rod in the fission reactor

you will see its durability lowering

basically when it breaks it's looking for somewhere to be pushed

if there is no output bus what do you propose outside of voiding?

where would it be store?

internal inventory?

easy to lose

[nova epoch]

Ah, I just assumed the process of "running" the reactor was essentially a recipe.

[proud shale]

no

[nova epoch]

Makes sense given that it continuously produces steam and not all at once at the end.

[proud shale]

so yeah also I don't give a flying fuck when someone gets sad but didnt read the quests

though that could be added to the tooltip of the fission reactor I guess

[sudden hound]

it's complicated lol

[nova epoch]

Yeah, it certainly behaves differently from other multis. Especially from a "new to gregtech" point of view. Everything up to this point works pretty much the same way so this one being different is... I don't want to say confusing but I did have to think about it a bit more when Tom said it wasn't a recipe.

[unreal falcon]

but distillation towers do still run when the layers are missing output hatches, those fractions will be voided

[nova epoch]

Do they? I've always just built them as high as needed and never noticed. I've definitely had LCR recipes that just go "nope" Pretty sure I've also has dist tower recipes not run because I forgot the output bus for items so I just assumed it wouldn't run for missing hatches.

I guess it works for dist towers because the outputs are predetermined by height level whereas the other examples aren't.

So it's easy to know what to 'void'.

[nimble sphinx]

Solely because I didn't bother to implement it that way. Voiding was easier.

[nova epoch]

Fair enough.

[nova epoch]

I'm confused as to how the fission processing works. I put a thorium rod in, it got up to 139, then I tried to put the myceilizine dust in and then nothing. I have an output hatch for the result (separate from the steam hatch) but nothing happens.

[sudden hound]

you need an item holder inside the reactor

[nova epoch]

On. I missed that somehow. Ty

[proud shale]

The quests

[nova epoch]

Perhaps the bit mentioning that processing is facilitated by material holders should be included in the quest to get idomethane since that is realistically the first time you actually need to use it and not just in the off-to-the-side item-get quest. Perhaps adding a bucket of the 1,3,mycelienzane to the item-get portion of the idomethane quest with that blurb on top would make that section more clear.

I did try looking through the quests and thought maybe it would be clarified in the obnoxiously long 8 page quest in the energy chapter but unfortunately the only mention is:
"Fission heat processing: (Think EBF)"

So when thinking ebf I thought "There is an input and an output. I have an input bus and an output hatch"

[proud shale]

there is a lot to read I agree

but whatever we do people will always miss it so Idk

[nova epoch]

Perhaps also the recipe page in EMI should list (requires material holder) like some other recipes have to make it more clear.

[proud shale]

Hmmmm that's actually a good idea

and I think we could do that

like the coils for the EBF recipes

we could add a material holder for the Fission Heat Processing

[nova epoch]

Yes, I did that quest but then when trying to search for the fix I missed that and searching the quests didn't bring that one up. Hence the "Oh. I missed that somehow". The real irony is that I have two material holders in my inventory ready to go for plutonium processing haha.

[proud shale]

@nimble sphinx what do you think?

I think it shouldn't be too hard to add a Material Holder icons on the EMI page of the fission heat processing like the EBF does?

[nova epoch]

For whatever reason, I didn't put two and two together and realize that cooling pellets was a fission processing recipe.

I got tunnel visioned on the mycelienzane thing.

[proud shale]

https://github.com/GregTechCEu/GregTech-Modern/blob/a2f67623feb91103b0491fa9881e8991af7ba1f2/src/main/java/com/gregtechceu/gtceu/common/data/GTRecipeTypes.java#L517

that's how the EBF does it

[nova epoch]

Yeah, just a blurb would help. Like how cleanroom recipes say "required cleanroom"

[nimble sphinx]

Good idea. I'll try to add it.

[sudden hound]

agreed on text

[proud shale]

I would prefer the icon personally

you can also click the icon

[rare lava]

Yeah the material holder can be set as an input so you can click on it

Granted that’s in normal emi idk about gt xei compat

[proud shale]

we can just copy the method the EBF does to show the Coils

I just linked the code

it's a method from gtm

[sudden hound]

both is good imo, I know I usually completely ignore the actual machines on the left lol

the text is a lot more visible, look at how fewer questions we got about HV macerator byproducts once we added text lol

[proud shale]

no it would be like the coil

you wouldn't see a coil but a material holder

you can also click on it and see its recipe

[sudden hound]

oh like there

I thought you meant like on the top left

[proud shale]

yeah no that one is easier to miss

[sudden hound]

gotta make sure this one doesn't overlap with the dimension though lol

[nova epoch]

Then you could have tiered material holders if you wanted to add additional complexity. Basic ones for thorium, upgraded ones that can withstand uranium conditions etc...

Like there are tiered insulations.

[proud shale]

Oh no I don't think that's necessary

[nova epoch]

Haha.

[proud shale]

you are confusing Material Holder and Fuel Holder

I guess if we add icons on EMI we could also add the Fuel Holder on both these pages

[nova epoch]

I'm not but I am relating them. The upgraded material holder could be instead for advanced recipes then and not tied to rod type.

[proud shale]

If Vazde feels up for that

it's not that necessary

[proud shale]

The advanced fission processing is within the OLA

[nova epoch]

Ah.

Need to get past the thorium section before I deep dive into the OLA quests.

So then is the mycelienzane the only non cooling pellet fission processing recipe?

[proud shale]

yeah

may add some others i don't know

The OLA is doing basically the same thing but in a more controllable way so

[nova epoch]

Maybe the mycelienzane should be a simpler non-fission thing and have non-cooling recipes relegated to just the OLA? For consistency?

[proud shale]

no because you don't have the OLA at that point

[nova epoch]

That's why I said non-fission. Could be an EV fluid extractor Mars only recipe?

[proud shale]

oh no why?

Having to use the fission reactor is funny

[sudden hound]

the point is for it to require a basic reactor setup but before you start doing uranium or OLA stuff

[nova epoch]

You still need the basic reactor setup to bootstrap you into the uranium stuff so that's still covered and doesn't have a one-off recipe.

Maybe add the thorium juice to the mycelienzane recipe somewhere. Then fission is still required but this single use thing is gone and the mechanic is focused to cooling pellets.

[proud shale]

I think it's totally fine

[nova epoch]

Understandable.

[proud shale]

adding the Material Holder icon to the EMI recipe page will help

and well reading the quests also help

[nova epoch]

Can we make the material holder quest a pre-req for the idomethane quest instead off to the side?

[proud shale]

We can't limit ourselves because players don't want to read the quests

[sudden hound]

I could just add it to the quest requirements

[nova epoch]

That would be of great help as well as the recipe change. I assure you it had nothing to do with not wanting to read the quests. I spent the better part of an hour reading and re-reading the quests/emi to find what I was looking for. I just happened to not read the correct quest. The issue is that searching quests appears to only get results by title so neither, 'fission' nor 'products' brought up that quest to read.

But none of that matters. These simple changes I think will go a loooong way to helping prevent this in the future. Thank's for hearing me out!

[nova epoch]

Does the fission reactor do wallsharing?

[woven plinth]

Yes

[nova epoch]

Cool.

[nimble sphinx]

I won't be adding that there. Those do not directly interact with the material holders. But I shall add it to the Processing tab.

[proud shale]

Great thanks

[nova epoch]

Ok, next bit of feedback.
The quest for the heat exchanger says to put on a 16A energy hatch to never have to worry about throughput but the recipes all have input and output fluids listed in mb/tick which would make the rate of fluid throughput independent of energy input (unless the ui doesn't update the mb/tick when selecting different recipe voltage levels) To test this, I put a supertank of irradiated fluid on the input, and a supertank on the output and ran the machine for ~60s and measured the high pressure steam output. 4A EV gave ~2209B, 16A EV gave ~2216B, and an LV energy hatch limited to 1A from a transformer gave ~2280B (The recipe continued for ~4 seconds after stopping since it is a longer recipe at lv)

Also at lv, the heat exchanger runs pretty solidly whereas when running it at EV it flickers like a mofo which I believe is a known issue given the quest reward for the power switch cover.

Additionally, additionally, the construction of it is somewhat jank. I get the feeling it doesn't want me to have the input and output to occur on the same side as it won't form if there isn't a quad hatch on both ends (that I could get to work anyhow) but if I put a dummy quad input hatch on the side I don't want to use, and put a quad output hatch on the side I do want to use last, it will form and I can get it to take input and output on the same side.

Ah nuts, I just saw there was another release. Apologies if any of these were already covered.

[nimble sphinx]

What was the plan with the Heat Battery, Tom? Will it eventually replace the heat exchanger, or are they still to be separate?

[proud shale]

I think about keeping them separated I don’t really see the point as unifying al’ of them

The heat exchanger is easier to use and understand that the heat battery

[proud shale]

No there shouldn’t be any restrictions

I gonna change the structure anyway

[nova epoch]

Heat battery and OLA are pretty straight forward. All in all a very fun section of the game. Feels very rewarding to finally get those IV circuits.

[molten lark]

I don't get the point of not allowing an ME output hatch on the heat exchanger when a quad hatch pushing into an ME interface works just as well but looks a bit more goofy

[proud shale]

Diversity

[molten lark]

the only interesting thing was forcing me to look harder at the multiblock requirements

[proud shale]

I just need to redo it so I can allow 1x without allowing ME

And have more inputs

It's just low in my priority

[glad lance]

I don't think that reducing the available options is diversity

[proud shale]

It is

It forces you to do things differently

[sudden hound]

constraints breeds creativity

[glad lance]

I don't think this is the root cause. There are several reasons why I think so:
Initially, Tom wasn't against the ME hatch (when I first reported the issue). But now it's a conscious decision and a reason.
In fact, I think the real reason is the same reason why she still has the 14-hatch – lack of time, some implementation difficulties, etc. (call it what you will, but you know better).

In my understanding, the term diversity is simply strange, although I understand what is being discussed when, as options decrease, diversity increases.

It's also worth noting that the multiblock's inputs and outputs generate extreme temperatures, necessitating the use of either AE or special pipes. A multiblock also requires a huge amount of input fluid to fully open (operate at maximum), and therefore, fluid must be quickly withdrawn. Ultimately, it all boils down to the fact that using AE is a necessity (or at least a significant relief). That leaves the ME hatch or ME interface. However, it's worth noting that the ME hatch is essentially just a combination of the functionality of two blocks, a kind of qol (not without its nuances), and in this context, removing one of the options seems strange to me.
I'll also note that before the HV, there was no choice but to use pipes; in the HV, AE appears, and in the EV, AE hatches appear, and... What the term "diversity" refers to here... I don't understand...

Well, I don't mean to seem rude or offend anyone. Based on what I've written above, it just seems like a very strange decision and a strange reasoning behind it.

[proud shale]

At first I was fine to use AE2 for everything but I know Pyritie or GameStar kinda hate it so sometime I try to take different stance

Why do I call that diversity it's really simple to explain

On my run I use AE2 everywhere

With ME Ports and Stockpile

For someone like me when you encounter a machine like the Heat Exchanger and that you can't use an ME Hatch you have to do it differently

Are you gonna use an interface? (though Oversized interface aren't avaiable yet)

Are you using a storage bus an a super tank?

Craft your best gregtech pump

Or simply using the fluid pipres

that's diversity

If every choices give you the exact same option

You simply gonna keep using the same one that you used

The best analogy is energy being restricted on dimensions

By disabling power sources on every dimensions

we reduce the amount of choices right?

But then we force players to use different methods

therefore we create diversity

Also just so you know there will be new mechanics later and especially on Europa where you won't be able to use AE2

[glad lance]

I just find it strange that it's limited to just one specific machine (as opposed to, say, limiting hot steam transportation in general). Secondly, I repeat, I think the ME interface is still the most optimal strategy here, since it's faster than any other type of pipe, and there's no temperature limit. The only alternative with the same properties is also AE, but that cursed thing with a storage bus and multiple export buses. \n But the strangest thing to me is this: you have to earn it to use AE (since it unlocks late), and then they immediately impose some restrictions on you... And it's not entirely clear why. \n And the key difference between energy and this case is that you're most likely using one energy source(at least not all of that), and new planets force you to use other methods you've missed, while you're learning them, and overall, it's interesting. But here you're not allowed to use a relatively new type of hatch, and you've used all the other alternatives before (pipes before HV, and basic AE elements in HV).

[proud shale]

No new planets don’t bring energy generations you missed but simply new ones

Also as I said you are saying it’s only one specific machine but I told you it’s just a start and they will be more

I could go as far as blacklist fission steam from AE2 if it would make you feel better

[glad lance]

Well, when I first encountered highly radioactive things, I immediately wondered if they could be stored in ae (like in Mekanism). It turns out there are no restrictions at all. A conditional restriction like this makes more sense to me. But I don't know do u adjusted the steam amount, and when I played, the steam amount(160x) was simply unbelievable, and using the pipes was pointless due to their low throughput. But it's obvious that I'm just expressing my opinion, and that doesn't mean you should listen to it.

[sudden hound]

we did add the tungsten bismuth oxide pipes to handle that amount of steam

[proud shale]

There was a small period of time when you couldn’t handle the steam amount yeah

Some bugs happen

[glad lance]

Well, it's worth noting that I was mainly referring to the moment when the steam was 160°C, and that's when I became incredibly frustrated and didn't consider pipes and washers as any kind of alternative. If it's better now, that's great.

[heady brook]

Does the fluid drilling rig still pump heavy water even if I have exhaust all the heavy water in the chunk?

[sudden hound]

yes, its depleted yield is 30mb/t

[heady brook]

Does heavy water consumption depend on heat? For example, will the reactor consume more heavy water if it gets hotter?

[proud shale]

yeah

[heady brook]

May I ask for the math for the amount of heavy water a reactor consume?

I wanna know how much drilling rig I'll need when the chunk is exhausted

[proud shale]

Gonna have to check the quest in the energy chapter

or look into the code

You don't need the formula you can test ingame

[nimble sphinx]

https://bitbucket.org/Vazde/minecraft-fission/src/a2c14b9fd1b6e50d61f185335c452ba35a92479e/mod/src/main/java/fi/dea/mc/deafission/core/ReactorCurve.java#lines-22
That value is then divided by recipe duration (1 for per-tick recipes).

[mild wadi]

real confused over how the /tick recipes work
does overclocking this make it consume more materials, or the same amount?

I either missed some questbook change explaining this more thoroughly, but from what I gathered, overclocking these recipes doesn't do anything unless there's an item input or output

such as here or here

how the hell does this work?

[sleek chasm]

the inputs make sense but if the outputs have a /tick thing on it, wont that mean overclocking is bad since it produces less?

[mild wadi]

I know you're just trying to help, but I need someone who knows what they're talking about to explain it to me

[sleek chasm]

I'm asking tom too lol

[mild wadi]

one other thing that's confusing is the way the breeder rod recipes work
I assume it's just like the OLA with a heat port facing the battery, but it's still weird

[patent canyon]

the heat range label on decayed rod recipe is average temperature of the reactor(there will be penalty if the reactor overheats), the same as the label on the rod
the mechanic applies to other rod too

[patent canyon]

for the heat exchanger and Tower Cooler, they both support perfect overclock and subticking, so the recipe basically means:
on every tick, convert 10L water and 3200L Irradiated Steam to 6400L HPS, with 1EU
If u have a 16A EV energy(32768EU/t at max), the heat Exchanger can:
on every tick, convert 10L*P water and 3200L*P Irradiated Steam to 6400L*P HPS, with 1*EU, the P means parallel number at most 32768, and auto scaling according to ingredient supply rate

[patent canyon]

overclock the recipe means it consumes less hydrogen boost for the same output

[patent canyon]

for fishery, overclock will half total water nitrated per recipe, but if u see the rate per machine, it wont change.
its more about what u care, the fish or the water, if u care the water solo, (lossy) overclock is unnecessary

The later ones are GT itself problems(truly confusing for newcomers), and should be moved off this thread

personally prefer the label writes as
Lifetime: 30s max (or just Capacity: 24kHU if thats true)
Minimum Temp: 100°
Heat: -0.4HU/(t*°)

[sudden hound]

my understanding is the heat exchanger and cooling tower have per tick on everything because ideally they don't consume any electricity at all and are just designed to be passive machines

them needing electricity is more of a gregtech limitation

[proud shale]

Yeah mostly there is also an advantage with perTick is that they can parallel if Batch enabled or if you subtick

Now that I understand Java better I could redo them honestly

[mild wadi]

Oh, thank you.
My final question is mostly because I haven't built the multis yet, but can I see the temperature on the battery or the nuclear fuel factory/OLA directly through the ui?

[patent canyon]

the fuel factory has no temp, the recipe temp is tied to the deplated rod only
the OLA must have a heat battery connected and u can read temp there

[mild wadi]

I think I understand now. Does the rod inherent the temperature of the reactor that consumed it, if so, at which point? At the end of the recipe?
Can that temperature be changed outside of a reactor?

[proud shale]

continuously

[patent canyon]

nope, the rod accumulate heat during fission
if u break a fuel holder amid, u will see a rod with average temp in the fission it has undergone (u cant process it since its not depleted)

[proud shale]

it's an average at the end

[mild wadi]

Okay, thank you.
Can I change that after the fact, or do I have to run a reactor on the correct temperature range for breeder recipes?

[patent canyon]

off the best range would receive prod penalty, and go too hot will break breeder waste cycling

[mild wadi]

That I understood, my question is if like, dunking the rod on water changes its temperature like with hot ingots, or something of the sort

(Tfg ingots)

[patent canyon]

no it feels like Thermosetting polymer, u can do nothing once it depleted

[mild wadi]

Okay, thank you

[heady brook]

Anyone knows hot to get breeder rods to have high heat for neptunium?

Cause I tried mixing the rods with uranium and thorium and the reactor doesn't accept the breeder rod

[patent canyon]

simply have two TbU rod simultaneously and proper cooling
Tom may rework the system so that u can mix rods of types more freely later, though

[heady brook]

Hopefully he does. Supplying reactor with active cooling kinda sucks

[patent canyon]

Np-237 has good pa6 ROI in my personal view
though i prefer have coolant balls leaving some remains after melting

[heady brook]

pa6?

[heady brook]

oooo the coolant

[proud shale]

you can have redstone control depending of the temperature

you just needs a clock or something so it sends only on PA6

it's a bit harder on the redstone aspect but it's not insane either

[heady brook]

it just sucks that the pellet consumes fluorine

[proud shale]

It should be looped

[heady brook]

the cooling pellet?

[patent canyon]

but it not, 64 PA6 pellets consume 8000L fluorite
for 2 TbU + 1 PA6 holder setup(525 avg on cold start, 571 in continuous run), one cycle produces 30 Np-237 tiny dust, consume 45~48 PA6 pellets, or 11 topaz
to be frank, thats not too much

[proud shale]

Definitely I will have a look at the value

The design behind fission is that it’s hard to setup

But when it’s setup you are rewarded by an autonomous system

It may be my fault because when I was helped by SpicyNoodles to make the first loop of fission I thought there should be a cost

If the cost is to high it should be toned down as I was wrong thinking fission needed extra input

[nova basin]

you mean 8000mb?

because 8000B is full super tank

[molten lark]

1L = 1dm^3 = 0.001m^3 = 0.001B = 1mB
they did say 8000mB

[stone gust]

Guy is speaking in ancient gt language

1l equals 1 mb

[mild wadi]

so, let me see if I got it, since I couldn't find it in the enrgy chapter or the EV chapter
this pest has a 16A EV dynamo and a ASM 4914 rotor, hence the top, and second to last values
I fed it some spicy steam and it produced literally nothing in terms of EU, with a lot of batching going on all at once, and the rotor speed number slowly going up, and with it, the energy producion...
from what I gathered, it is optimal to feed it a constant supply of high pressure steam in order for the efficiency to remain maximal, possibly start fuelling it through a much lower tier hatch so it consumes as little steam as possible while the speed is picking up, and as the base production seems to be 6eu/mb of HPS, with the combined boosts it would be effectivelly 18.9 eu/mb, so I'd need to work around those numbers for overall power production if I were to stick to ASM rotors...
what I don't get is a way to estimate how long a single rod would run under no coolant, constant supply of dry ice, how that would impact high pressure steam yields, and the same for multiple rods. While the energy chapter does give insights on how many rods is better to burn them quickly, and single rods is best for processing efficiency, I don't really have an idea on the numbers, so, I need some help with that

[mild wadi]

so...
do I need like 2.5B/t to run this continuously, or is it closer to 940mb/t with the rotor buffs?

I'm using an EV input hatch for when the rotor is already fully spun

[sleek chasm]

honestly, high pressure steam is irrelevant once your fission setup is completely passived

a few uranium rods should be enough steam to get you to do that

and when you do, plutonium rods are insanely stupid in terms of steam output, I ran my setup for like, 6 hours and I have 2 million buckets of high pressure steam

and you shouldnt need to supply any dry ice anyway, glacian wool should be enough to run your thorium and uranium reactors just fine without any coolants

then you batch the pa6 for your first few plutonium rods to get nano wafers for iv circuits and then with that u can now make the graphite moderators that can make your plutonium reactor run passively

[proud shale]

You need to use Heavy Water to cool down your reactor as without it you can’t produce steam.

There is no flow rate in the Nuclear Turbine so choosing a smaller or bigger hatch serves no purpose

What’s important is to run your turbine at max speed after that the turbine will scale to use more steam depending of the amount you input.

It will also void power if you still input steam but the dynamo hatch is full btw

Regarding power if you input enough heavy water. The thorium can be run on one Nuclear Turbine producing a low amount of power maybe 10k if not less but can allow you to sustain what you need to start producing power with uranium rod

These are much better and potent to produce power

Honestly everything is explained in the quests

[patent canyon]

Is it intended that heat battery refuses me hatch

[proud shale]

Yeah

[heady brook]

I think needing 24600 seconds to make 1 Molybdenum-Silicon-Boron Rotor is a bit too much

1 of the rotor requires 82 of those ingots

[proud shale]

It should be much faster in the OLA if you use Boron coolant

[heady brook]

What's OLA?

[proud shale]

The machine

to make this recipe

[heady brook]

oooo, it just clicked on me

[proud shale]

it scales with the heat of the battery it's connected to

[heady brook]

how much fster does it become?

[proud shale]

insanely faster

maybe 2 seconds or something

[heady brook]

oh wow

nice

[proud shale]

Making Hot Boron coolant isn't easy though

but you can try with High Pressure Steam it should be a nice boost already

[heady brook]

Doesn't high pressure steam only give 910 degrees of heat?

[proud shale]

oh true I nerfed it

[heady brook]

and the recipe for the ingot requires 900 heat

[proud shale]

it won't be a massive increase yeah

I guess make hot boron coolant ahah

I will do some tweaking on the end of EV when Venus is out

which isn't for tomorrow

[heady brook]

well, I'm gonna need to make it sooner rather than later anyway

tomorrow?

[proud shale]

if you want fission on earth yeah

[heady brook]

you're gonna have a release version for 0.12 tomorrow?

[proud shale]

dunno

[heady brook]

I think you should make the heat requirement for the rotor lower

so that it's not this absurd

[proud shale]

No it's to be used with fission

[heady brook]

cause people will probably try to make the rotor first before earth fission right?

[proud shale]

not really

it's so powerful

[heady brook]

wait, how powerful is it?

[proud shale]

you can look the stats in game

[heady brook]

oh wow

So if you use that rotor, you can produce around 72A of IV for 1 neptunium reactor?

I take back what I said then

[proud shale]

Maybe something around that yeah

could be a bit lower at IV

[heady brook]

I might have the calculation wrong

so if rotor A has turbine efficiency of 60%, Rotor B has efficiency of 120%. Does that mean Rotor B consume only 50% of high pressure steam compared to rotor A?

[proud shale]

If recipe lasts 10 seconds
Rotor A recipe lasts 6 seconds
Rotor B recipe lasts 12 seconds

So yeah 50% more efficient

Power is an increase in consumption and output

basically more parallels

[heady brook]

please keep the earth fission power

cause it feels so rewarding after setting up such an extensive infrastructure

[proud shale]

Oh yeah that's the idea

[heady brook]

compared to just OIL

[proud shale]

Also it scales incredibly well

[heady brook]

I saw that and I got scared

[proud shale]

If you have the infra it becomes easy to make more rods

And there is also the Small Fission Reactor with the Small Modular Turbine

quit egood

[heady brook]

yeah, but managing the breeder rod to produce americium is too much of a pain tho

cause we need to have active cooling right?

[proud shale]

Eh it's all renewable at least

yeah

[heady brook]

renewable?

[proud shale]

Every materials will be infinite at one point

Fission is mostly though to be played during IV

you unlock it at the end of EV but

so when Venus is release you will have much better ore processing too

[heady brook]

as long as fluorine isn't infinite, it's hard to justify using americium

[proud shale]

Dunno

I think Topaz veins on the Moon and Venus Ore processing

would make fluorine so plentiful

you can use some of it to make americium

also americium lasts a fucking long amount of time ahah

[heady brook]

that is indeed a very long time

[proud shale]

If you do the setup with two small reactor

[heady brook]

counter point, cooling tower so cool

[proud shale]

I think they last for actual day of real life

The SMT is more about outpost and backup power

not really thought to be a main power

It may become useful especially on Europa

[heady brook]

if you can make space station be not useless, I think it could be a really good powersource for it

[proud shale]

dunno

but honestly I may be okay to allow SMT on other planets

as it's really hard to setup

Could be useful to power up Moon Harvester or Ostrum Harvester

[proud shale]

Space stations can only be useless

[heady brook]

yeah, it's such a shame

cause it's so cool

but it's so useless

but it's so cool