When will P2P get banned?

[timid timber]

P2P hurts the community and the game (and it's economy)

I explained lots of reasons why it should be banned @scammeralert

Also it literally breaks the games rules (gambling). Only reason it's allowed is because of Jake (and he is not here anymore)

[bleak herald]

Hey! I'll get back to you in a bit, hold tight.

P2P (Player-to-Player) games that involve gambling are not allowed according to the game rules. The rules explicitly state that games of chance involving items, such as "drop games" and casinos, are prohibited. This is to ensure a fair and safe environment for all players. If you encounter any activities that violate these rules, you should report them using the in-game report system or contact support for further assistance.

Sources:

• Article: Game Rules

[molten whale]

That’s nice, doesn’t answer when they start banning em

[timid timber]

They need to first say it's illegal

[molten whale]

Players will find another way to gamble and bypass the rules as always

[timid timber]

And they will get banned?

Scammers will keep scamming, is that a reason to make it legal? No

[molten whale]

You can’t argue that scamming is not scamming. You can definitely argue like @sterile goblet said p2p can be skill and not technically “gambling”. So again players will find a way. (Not defending p2p, they can all get banned for all i care)

[light cape]

s

[timid timber]

"Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value on an event with an uncertain outcome, driven by the intent to win additional money or material goods. It requires three core elements: consideration (an amount wagered), risk (chance), and a prize."

Value = bytecoins
Uncertain outcome ✅
Prize ✅

[molten whale]

Ok then ban boosters, they’re an uncertain outcome and you pay value (gems) to buy them. You risk getting junk blocks and unwanted items that wont sell or you hit big by getting a legendary/rare item.

[timid timber]

Also it doesn't matter that it involves "skill" (it isn't fully doesn't ss you can't control your opponents movements and also you can use a bot that plays perfectly (no skill needed))

[molten whale]

Right now we’re just pulling hypotheticals with using bots.

I forgot i was arguing about players finding alternative ways to gamble not the logistics of p2p, forget about whatever i said about p2p.

Right TTT the one game that always ends in a tie if both players know how to play

[timid timber]

So you think it's impossible for people to use bots in TTT?

Also boosters (or things like these) aren't directly considered gambling (like CS2 cases, boosters in PW aren't the same but you get what I mean)

There is only the chance of randomness and as PW don't allow selling bytes for real money, it can't be considered gambling

[timid timber]

TTT has been solved (all possible combinations have been solved) so bots know exactly what moves to do

[molten whale]

Unless the ttt in p2p is different from the classic 3x3 board there is no way anybody should be losing or winning, it always ends in a tie unless tje player has no idea how to play.
Wish i could imbed images to show how it always ends in a tie if played right but i cant and i dont feel like typing allat out

[timid timber]

It doesn't

They just redo the match if it's tie

Also it will always end in a tie (if perfect bots are playing) as it's a solved game

[molten whale]

Ok so they just infinitely continue until one person gives up or slips up, that’s a game of endurance not chance

[timid timber]

They prob refund it after some time

[molten whale]

Ok then let’s spin back on the uncertain outcome. If you’re determined to win or draw constantly then it’s not uncertain as you choose to continue the infinitely drawn game. I guess you could argue it’s uncertain because you don’t know how long the other person or you can hold out. Or yk both players just decide to call it quits and get refund back.
Again not defending p2p i’ve argued against another p2p game before but TTT is just a buns example of p2p

vvvv me yapping about another p2p

Holy slowmode

Alright twin you can keep typing that long ahh paragraph, i’ve said my piece. Good luck with your protest I gotta dip

[timid timber]

It's still uncertain? Just because you choose to keep going, doesn't mean the host or the player will stop going

Also they might just choose the winner, the same way they choose who started (by luck (clicking a button and one light turns red etc.))

TTT is one example of P2P (most popular), other gamemodes (like PVP) are considered gambling too (by official definitions)

If you lag, you have some time to get back there (usually). Also the other person can lag too

If server goes down it will be either decided later or refunded

Also your explanations have zero correlation to "why p2p isn't gambling", we can use this logic in online gambling too

Android is a phone, iphone is a phone

Phone isn't a pc, phone is a mini computer

Poker is a game of luck, but still considered gambling (because it's gambling even if it includes skill (e.g. wagering, where you wager vs someone at a game to see whose better)

[timid timber]

Your arguments (no offence) are not valid or good ones

Answer this: Is wagering on a video game about whose better, considered gambling?

Just cause you own a P2P, shouldn't mean you should either be this dumb or biased

[molten whale]

I dont have time to read all and respond of that rn but i’ll respond to you saying i own a p2p, I don’t and like i said i’m all for them being banned lol. Dont now where yoi got me having p2p but sure, might be last message you fot a bit or while

[timid timber]

Cause you are defending it too much

[molten whale]

Alright to get started it seems like you didn’t bother reading the full conversation between me and the other person because it clearly shows i was anti-p2p. The reason I brought up that argument was as an example of my being against p2p.

I brought up phones and other devices because that p2p game involved dodging projectiles (dodgeball i think) which can be impacted by lag and device models which can fall under uncertainty but none of those has any impact on TTT.

My original argument here was about TTT not other p2p games.

“Also they might just choose the winner the same way they choose who started (by luck (clicking a button and one light turns red etc.)) That’s not TTT anymore and is a different p2p game in itself so that can’t be compared to the infinitely drawn game. “If my grandmother had wheels she would’ve been a bike”

To answer your question: Yes it is, but TTT isn’t about who’s better if both the players know how to win hence leading to the non stop tying with no real winner.

[zinc bramble]

they does TTT Only , it is skill based
THEY DOES THAT CUZ ITS ALLOWED SO SHUT UP
i know that cuz its my friends world
ttt means tic tac toe.. you can spin dice etc. as well to pick who starts or just tell you go first..
its purely skill based whoever starts
in that game, first one starts has more losing percentage btw
mostly results as a tie (that betting is same as auctioning. , its skill based and knowledge based)

[timid timber]

You didn't explaing how p2p isn't gambling so I'm not gonna type my response (I could) also we can see the bias here

[zinc bramble]

it is betting that works with skill
theres a term for that.
the pure luck gamble is also called as money gachas (in game gachas has a slight difference, but works nearly same)
skill game played with money bets : gamble game
non skill luck based gambles = GACHA (without lootbox its not allowed.)
so u wanna to CURSE ONE OF MY FRIENDS LUCK WITHOUT EVEN WARNING HIM, You dirty person.
I will tell him to sell the world then u can piss off maybe the new owner will use it as A BSP

[molten whale]

Not supporting you on p2p worlds but what do you after tying numerous times? Do you decide the winner by using another that isn’t TTT and actually based on chance?

[versed geode]

This could go to the whole game you buy dark pixies for 100k and uncertain outcome, you dont know what the prize will be so you eather lose or win

[zinc bramble]

no. its also based on knowledge as well..
its 9 tkles unlike sos.. but it has a skill thing
plus: WHAT UR DOING IS burning someone elses money without permission AKA SCAMMING
@timid timber

[timid timber]

????????? does your amount of dark pixies (the amount you own) go down after you buy them? Also it's still not gambling, more like "investing"

Gosh you are like 9-year old, I will just block you. Talk to me when u get wiser

[zinc bramble]

you just could warn him if you really wanted to..
u just wanna sunk SOMEONE ELSES NETWORTH ON WORLDNAMES. PLUS: TTT IS ALLOWED THATS WHY PEOPLE IS DOING IT
close ur post and get lost.
you are trying to ban someone without any warnings. (no. I dont play p2p.) , @versed geode yea? they earns taxes only like 10-20% that makes admin earn too

[versed geode]

Says the person that arquments this whole p2p😂 but sure. And investing can be gambling

[timid timber]

Please talk to me when you get wiser

Investing still isn't considered gambling (some forms are)

[molten whale]

Uh, no idea where you’re going with scamming argument lol

@timid timber I wanna ask a follow up question
You mentioned deciding the winner using buttons or other methods if the TTT game goes on for too long.

Is that still TTT or relying on the game randomly choosing and having a chance to win?

[grand thunder]

TTT is a battle of focus endurance, the match will end in draw many times..

Whoever lose its focus and makes a mistake will lose

And with my insane mental focus ||I'm lying||....
I am certain that I can win the match

[timid timber]

Where did I say someone should be banned? You are probably 9 years old actually

@grand thunder you are also risking that your power doesn't turn off, so that way it's gambling? Also what does endurance have to do with gambling? You can sports bet too (gamble) and they use their endurance

[grand thunder]

Let's play TTT and I'll explain what does the "Endurance" means

[molten whale]

Shoot i mentioned TTT being an endurance game earlier, maybe i am supporting p2p .Nahhhhhh i’m supporting TTT not other bum p2p games.

@timid timber waiting for a response

[zinc bramble]

no. its not
tic tac toe is the thing that is X O X
that is not a chance game

[timid timber]

So cause you bot you support it?

[molten whale]

What? Are you gonna answer my question or not lol
What does “so cause you bot” mean???? English isn’t wording

[timid timber]

Where is the question? Are you actually dumb? Litr just cause you have a P2P doesn't mean you have to act this dumb 🤦‍♂️

@zinc bramble TTT involves luck btw

[molten whale]

@timid timber Ignoring pings. Idk how many times it takes telling you i don’t support p2p to let you know i dont own any p2p worlds.

Quick google search btw.
“No, tic-tac-toe is not a game of luck; it is a solved game of pure strategy with no elements of chance. If both players play optimally, every game will end in a draw. It is a "perfect information" game where all moves are known, and winning only occurs if an opponent makes a mistake”
The only chance or luck based thing in TTT is praying your opponent makes a mistake, if you try to use that argument anywhere it’s gonna fail spectacularly.

[timid timber]

The luck part comes from not knowing your opponents strenght

You face better opponent = either tie or lose (usually)

You face worse opponent = tie or lose (usually)

Also it doesn't need to involve luck to be considered gambling

Also we both know u support P2P (and own one)

Also to the people who told me about endurance, world have usually max amount of ties (like 10) until refund

@scenic pewter can you read @scammeralert about P2P when you have time

[molten whale]

mb for the late response i was at a loss for words while laughing out loud. “The luck part comes from not knowing your opponents strenght” how would not knowing your opponent strength affect your plays in any way. Do you not take them seriously just because you don’t know how good they are? No right? You try and win no matter especially if you don’t know how good they are.

How about chess one of the most popular boardgames of all time that require a vast amount of skill. You have odds of going against numerous people with different amount of knowledge. Does that make chess a luck game? No because you try and win no matter what skill level your opponent is.

Sorry if it sounds off, you actually dumbed down my brain with that statement.

I’m sorry but I think i’m forced to take my leave if that’s actually an argument from you against why TTT is a luck based game.

[naive galleon]

bro its not every one is doing tricks and the host is friensd with them and they keep scamming

[molten whale]

That’s not the game, that’s the people
“Hate the players not the game”

[tepid path]

how do casinos hurt the economy, casinos exist in the real world and are businesses

[naive galleon]

ye

ngl they should allow gambling but not p2p i love to gamble

[molten whale]

I mean you’re already gambling with boosters so keep at it

[naive galleon]

ye i lost many € to it no legendarys

[zinc bramble]

I'm sure @P2P Is no scam..
stop trying to prooving urself?

[timid timber]

When did I say it was a scam 😭 😭 😭 😭

[tepid path]

only way it could hurt the economy is by people selling bytes for irI money which isnt directly the fault of csn worlds etc and shouldnt be used as an argument against p2p

[tepid path]

also it doesent affect the community as we are alr incentified to gamble via boosters (arguably the best way to make profit if youre lucky) which also makes the "no gambling" rule pointless

and third party casinos will appear inevitably (like in growtopia) so they might aswell implement an ing betting system where world owner gets a % to make it a worthwhile business

[timid timber]

BTW legally speaking taking a fee (rake or wtv they want to call it) like 5 to 10% makes the P2P worlds casinos meaning they are not allowed (accoridng to game rules) @scenic pewter

[tepid path]

the ingame rules can be changed and this specific rule doesent make any sense @glossy sun

[glossy sun]

P2P should be bannable because it pollutes the platformer tag in top rated and also it costs people their livelyhoods

[alpine cliff]

u can use stockfish to cheat

[frozen wren]

No no and no👎

[timid timber]

Have you reas the game rules?

5. No g@mbling (c@sino, dr0p game etc.games of chance). Violation of this rule can result in a ban.

A website (or a world in this case) taking a fee for a bet (TTT) makes that website (or a world) a gaming website (g@mbling) meaning it's a c@sino (= not allowed)

[tepid path]

you are completely ignoring my arguments and using "the rules say so!!" as an argument the same goes for you @glossy sun

[glossy sun]

because the rules are the official rules
if you don't follow them you'll get BANNED

[tepid path]

this is my main point, theres no reason for them to be banned while boosters exist

[frozen wren]

Helloo sir /he

[glossy sun]

boosters are official and cost gems
you can't buy boosters with bytes or rare items

[potent ore]

https://discord.com/channels/399918427256520705/1491548933586030835 mod made threat move there

[tepid path]

ok so just because their official its ok? are you dumb?? its okay because it uses one currency but not others??😭 you know that theres a gem/byte rate ans you can buy gems with bytws via fgems

[timid timber]

You want to ban all randomness from the game?

Also boosters aren't legally g@mbling (like CS2 cases aren't officially considered g@mbling), but a world taking a fee from every bet makes that world a c@sino and makes it ILLEGAL IN THE GAMES RULES

@tepid path P2P isn't legal in games rules, there is no rule saying boosters are illegal either nor are they illegal in real life so there isn't any reason to remove them

[tepid path]

yes it is gambling, cs2 cases are gambling thats why their banned in certain cluntries

[timid timber]

CS2 cases aren't gambling actually. If steam allowed users to cash out then it would be

As long as steam doesn't allow that, it isn't considered gambling

@tepid path what is your argument there? CS2 cases aren't gambling? Some countries can ban them, but it still isn't gambling

[tepid path]

stop making up definitions , the practice or activity of betting : the practice of risking money or other stakes in a game or bet

[glossy sun]

yes, boosters are okay because they're official and were made by the developers of the game
p2p is not ok because it's similar to g@mbling (you have to pay to have a chance to win something or you might lose everything) and that isn't allowed as per the rules of the game
drop games, which are also similar to g@mbling, are explicitly banned

[rough hornet]

so are p2p worlds and games banned now or what?

[molten whale]

Currently no, in the future? Possibly

[thorny hound]

for what?

players found something thats fun and ppl are like ok lets ban that 👍

[molten whale]

It’s up for debate on whether it breaks the no gambling rules, idk i aint a mod not my choice to make. Players are against it, others are for it. Dont know and dont care cuz i dont play p2p’s

[thorny hound]

well ppl here sai that "you have to pay to have chance to win" its not even a chance when u actually read the rules and learn to play games its just matter of whos the best at that game he will win :d

[thorny hound]

yeah u made tons of points congrats u want a counter argument to those?

[rough hornet]

honestly i dont think they should ban it, people enjoy playing p2p and no one can disagree that its the best cash flow the game has gotten. in addition all of the games ARE skilled based so i dont think they should raise a ban on this. is this a game of chance when a better player wins a player who is less skilled than them?

[timid timber]

Sure

[loud void]

it literally does not break the games rules.

[timid timber]

Is operating a c@sino against the rules?

[rough hornet]

there are other games in p2p by the way i dont play tic tac toe i find it dumb

[young juniper]

block kill, pvp, cloud game.

[rough hornet]

way more too

[young juniper]

but does require a good wifi as well, like maze,tower etc

[rough hornet]

yeah right

[timid timber]

P2P worlds are casinos

There could be something hosted by PW (like 1v1 battle tournaments weekly/monthly) where top players win prizes

[young juniper]

Nty

[thorny hound]

to the stuff you have in the world @scammeralert. To your first point being “you never know if the admin/owner who hosts your bet will actually give you the price if you win”. Well established P2P worlds rely heavily on reputation and trust. The owners themselves often aren’t even the ones hosting there are dedicated hosts who pay for the right to operate in those worlds. It makes no sense for someone to spend money to gain hosting access only to scam players for relatively small amounts and get blacklisted and banned immediately.

On top of that these worlds are structured to reduce risk:
Clear rules and instructions are shown before you even play, Hosts have defined limits (like maximum bets)
Trusted worlds build long-term credibility, which they wouldn’t throw away for short-term scams

To your second point. “admin/host can try trick you by changing rules mid game, resetting the game or anything he can come up with” That’s also inaccurate.
In most P2P systems the rules are predefined and agreed upon by players before the game starts not controlled arbitrarily by the host. The host is there to facilitate not to rewrite the rules.
More importantly: Hosts are bound by the same rules as everyone else, Players are often encouraged to record gameplay as proof, If a host breaks the rules (e.g. resets unfairly or manipulates outcomes), they get reported, banned, and blacklisted

3rd.
Taxes in P2P worlds aren’t inherently negative they’re often necessary mechanisms that convert short-term individual cost into long-term systemic value.
You also said that p2p causes inflation A tax free P2P economy is actually more likely to inflate not less.
Both of your points “P2P worlds have taxes so it is negative value in the long run as you keep losing e.g. 10% of the price. Also people can try tricking you by first acting like they are “bad players” when in reality they just acted that way to make you think they were bad and to make you bet more” mix real concerns with incorrect conclusions.
Fees don’t make it negative value they just mean you need to make better trades to stay profitable. And the “tricking players” part isn’t a flaw of P2P, it’s just normal competitive behavior. If anything, both points show the system has depth and needs skill not that it’s inherently bad.

“P2P isn’t fully skill in a game where you can cheat. E.g. person uses bot that knows the best moves in TTT. That way they will never lose. Also in other P2P modes the person can use different kinds of cheats like game cheats”
If cheating invalidates skill then chess isn’t skill people use engines, FPS games aren't skill people use aimbots. Now would you say that chess lacks skill i know i wouldn’t.
The possibility of cheating doesn’t remove skill it just means the game needs anti cheat. Otherwise no competitive system would be skill based.
Also If a bot never loses in TTT that just proves the game is solved not that P2P lacks skill.
“Also in other P2P modes the person can use different kinds of cheats like game cheats”
Cheating exists in every multiplayer game that’s not a P2P issue, it’s an anti-cheat issue. And cheaters don’t just win forever either in plenty of games cheaters lose or get detected, blacklisted and banned daily. So it’s a risk not something that makes the whole system invalid.

Saying it’s "always undetected" doesn’t make sense lif people can notice patterns or review gameplay it’s detectable. And since ttt is a solved game perfect play isn’t even proof of cheating in the first place.

[timid timber]

First part is about the ways you can get scammed there as it's still a scammeralert world alerting of scams

Also this, people have been saying they have been tricked by hosts (they play vs hosts friend)

Having fees on bets makes it a C@sino

This isn't my argument. My argument is to ban P2P and not make it with 0 fees

Also fees do make it negative value

FPS games are heavily moderated and cheaters get constantly banned. There is no way to track cheaters using a TTT bot

Also there is luck involved as the person who starts has 58% chance to win (and the person who starts is choosed randomly, 50% chance)

Did you know having fees on P2P worlds makes them C@sinos?

also why did u pick arguments? And not answer all

Why didn't you talk about why P2P isn't harmful in kids game and argue that?

[thorny hound]

if cheating produces the exact same result as legitimate perfect play then it’s not creating an unfair advantage it’s just replicating optimal play.

[timid timber]

@thorny hound can you argue about how P2P isn't harmful on kids game?

[thorny hound]

P2P isn’t harmful by itself poor moderation is. With proper limits, rules, and oversight it’s just another form of player interaction that can even teach useful skills.

[timid timber]

So you think adding g@mbling and c@sinos into kids game is a good idea?

What is your P2P world called? I want to see if your world is even active

[thorny hound]

No I’m not saying casinos belong in kids games. You’re just equating all P2P with gambling which isn’t accurate. P2P is player vs player not a house with built in odds. Whether it’s harmful depends on things like limits, rules, and moderation and asking for a specific world doesn’t change the argument we’re talking about the system as a whole.

[timid timber]

Did you know P2P worlds taking fees makes them c@sinos?

do you think the house is gambling on poker? No they take rakes (fees)

Can you tell your P2P world's name? All your msgs in this server are about making P2P legal

[analog tusk]

Youre copemaxxing so hard
It isnt jakes fault p2p exist and as long as it’s a game of skill it isnt considered gambling and how does it even hurt the economy js dont play it if u think u gonna lose

Btw im anti p2p but ts just the truth

[timid timber]

P2P worlds are still c@sinos, you can't change that fact

Also it's considered gambling if it has the elements of it (risk, wager and intent to win more)