A vote about banning AI slop images/videos etc.

[raven jay]

#urandom is being spammed with AI slop, most people don't like it (source: #urandom message is a poll I made about brainrot, a lot of which is AI). I personally believe action should be taken against this. A vote in #announcements on whether to take action would represent the community's opinion fairly. If no memes in general is enforceable then this is.

Previous thread of mine got repurposed by mods to be about AI in support so here's a new dedicated suggestion.

[fringe pagoda]

Highly support, though of course people frequently do not make it clear they used AI so I'm not sure how much banning would actually help against this

[jagged escarp]

i don't know

[mossy shoal]

total ban on image and video and audio gen

[raven jay]

AI images and videos can be recognised without much difficulty

[mossy shoal]

there is no reason to make images videos or songs with ai

[normal knoll]

it's been getting much better though

[fringe pagoda]

Generally yeah but sometimes less so
Like, I own a server with an art channel, and an issue we've been having isn't shitheads spamming AI crap, it's well meaning people posting stuff not realising it's AI until someone looks more closely at it

[daring juniper]

I'm in favour

[fringe pagoda]

And I don't really like the standard of needing to examine something really closely first to determine if it's AI, because we're already having the issue of artists getting accused of using AI for just normal mistakes/shortcuts

For the record I want to set every AI thing on fire, I heavily support this in theory, I'm just not sure about enforcement

[daring juniper]

If you want to share content you enjoy, please do so
But LLM bs is not something that people will likely be moved by if you send it to them

[normal knoll]

i mean imo LLMs should be banned altogether purely because of the amount of power/water they use

not to mention pretty much all models are legally dubious at best

[formal matrix]

this server is gonna die because of this

🥹

[raven jay]

🤨

[vernal crown]

Wdym

[languid folio]

You are wrong.

[blissful star]

ragebait

[languid folio]

This server will improve because of this

[formal matrix]

how is it ragebait

[formal matrix]

LOL?

[vernal crown]

This server is older than AI, and keeps going strong

[languid folio]

If you do not agree, explain.

[vague verge]

I think such a rule is unenforceable frankly

[languid folio]

otherwise shut

[lucid urchin]

why tf is this topic hijacked in the first place

[daring juniper]

@tulip bay meep

[formal matrix]

fuck this server im leaving

[livid epoch]

🥀

[daring juniper]

fym hijacked

[formal matrix]

they are already gonna harass me further before

[vernal crown]

Sure but you can still work to make it functional to some degree

[languid folio]

Thank you friend

[blissful star]

ragebaited and left

bruh

[daring juniper]

AI Slop isn't what's keeping it alive

[blissful star]

moving on

[vernal crown]

They left server

[daring juniper]

Good

[languid folio]

anyhow

[lucid urchin]

bro whys there 2 channels with the same link*

[languid folio]

im def in favor of this because #urandom has some of the most shittiest content known to mankind

[vernal crown]

Am I lucky? Because I haven't found those but good memes

Or I don't pay enough attention to it

[languid folio]

im staying away from there now. Has things improved?

[mossy shoal]

not like false negative would be that big issue

[languid folio]

Like, it was the most disgusting channel of this server

[mossy shoal]

ai slop getting through wont ruin, its more about showing the ai is bad and not apperciated

[normal knoll]

exactly, the mods are there for a reason

[vernal crown]

Idk.. I move between #off-topic and #tech-general and #1006743093120352338 then VC

[normal knoll]

i dont think anything should be an instaban

[vernal crown]

I only post good memes on #urandom

[languid folio]

We are banning AI content, not banning the people

[vernal crown]

But back on topic, OP is right

It's like when you ban brainrot

Sadly AI is being used for low effort/low quality brainrot that ends dumped on #urandom or similar

[mossy shoal]

same way "meow" is banned in #tech-general, image gen, song gen, video gen should be everywhere

[normal knoll]

yea sorry i phrased that badly

[languid folio]

at this point brainrot needs a seperate channel 😭

[vernal crown]

It was moved to #1376915375664664647

[normal knoll]

why does it need a channel

[languid folio]

wrong reply but whatever

[vernal crown]

Nope

[mossy shoal]

text generators and other kinds of ai are more complex topic but idk zero arguments in favour of content generators

[languid folio]

because people wont stop posting in the general channels lol

[normal knoll]

..so ban it

[vernal crown]

You can make a ban proposal

[languid folio]

Moderation is too little in this server for its size

-# I was not serious about the brainrot channel lol

[vernal crown]

It's being worked on, and writing a proposal takes some mins
It's a good start

[mossy shoal]

it isnt much issue if some ai slop gets thru tbh

[vernal crown]

Just like this one and the other

Anyways, I'm with OP

[jagged escarp]

@languid folio @vernal crown you are both hus so you can bring it up to a vote in #hu-discussion

[velvet stone]

I do like always having a handcrafted meme ready, and those Sora memes can be quite funny. Can’t really have that with human created content

But I kinda it if people don’t like AI memes

[mossy shoal]

calling ai funny 😭

only ai funny is when it fails

[velvet stone]

Valid.
Well not only, but still.

[mossy shoal]

if you can't be yourself funny, using ai for that is pointless

[velvet stone]

I can think of the scenario, but I lack the capabilities to put it on video in a way that does it justice.

[vernal crown]

Sure but I can't make polls rn

[normal knoll]

how does this make the power/water usage okay?

[velvet stone]

But I haven’t used much AI video. Only really for a cinematic intro for a D&D boss.

[mossy shoal]

then either dedicate time to do that medium or dont do that medium

[velvet stone]

That’s not how civilisation works. I don’t have to melt sand to build a computer. A couple layers removed from that I can use AI to create videos, rather than having to spend years on learning blender and hours to days to create a short cinematic clip

[mossy shoal]

civilisation is people, ai not

[velvet stone]

I think those are overstated (at least in use, less so for training).
If you compare, watching an hour of TV isn’t actually better than talking an hour to AI.

[mossy shoal]

crt maybe, but tvs are crazy effective nowadays

[normal knoll]

what about the videos you were talking about? thats a lot more than one image or a few paragraphs

[velvet stone]

My CPU isn’t people either.
But it was made by people, just like AI was made by people.

Both mean that I can take shortcuts and don’t have to start from scratch. That’s the civilisation part.

[mossy shoal]

people understand cpus, ai is black box of amalgam data that even if you tried you can't know, it's big black box

[normal knoll]

and also i highly doubt openai had permission to use everything sora was trained on

[velvet stone]

Still a lot of infrastructure for broadcasting, including data Centers for Netflix and the like.

[mossy shoal]

storage doesnt take much, most power for tv is ig rendering and cgi

[velvet stone]

Copyright in its modern form is a scam created by Disney anyway. It’s not fit for modern times.
Just like we allow fair use for teaching materials, I believe training AI should be considered fair use.
Recreating a book or movie through AI is a different topic though.

[mossy shoal]

i do not consent

[normal knoll]

and so its okay for big companies to steal from smaller creators?

[velvet stone]

I don’t have data at hand. But it’s a regulatory issue. We should invest in clean energy and the like. Use as much as you need, preferably generate it yourself with solar or wind.
I would support legislation like that.

[mossy shoal]

idk how copyright is or should be but in no way it should be legal to make money out of stuff someone else made and doesnt allow you

[velvet stone]

Fair use isn’t stealing.
How the data is acquired is a different topic again. Enforcing that all data has to be bought creates a moat that blocks small providers and benefits the few that have the resources, especially because the required compute resources are already massive.

[mossy shoal]

fair use usually is about providing information about said thing, not using the thing for someone's money making scheme

[normal knoll]

yea this is what i was trying say

i think we have a lot of similar ideals about AI lol

[mossy shoal]

so you'd view artist as just small providers for ai god 🥀

[velvet stone]

I’m sure that if we were actually allowed to think of a solution, we could come up with revenue share options. E.g. revenue by how much impact the data had on a results (would require better model understanding)
But the well is already poisoned and the topic stays a yes or no thing rather than thinking of solutions.

[mossy shoal]

impossible, ai is black box, so massive you can't understand what's going inside its dataset network even if you tried

[velvet stone]

Not true, information is usually not copyright able anyway. Fair use is for actually using the thing or parts of the thing.

[old heart]

there's not much that can't be copywritten. Numbers, colours, all written works until they enter the public domain.

[velvet stone]

Not entirely true. Researchers were able to identify specific concepts in an LLM. But more research is needed and for the most part you’re right.
However what I suggested was just one possible solution and not THE solution. I’m sure we can come up with something better. But as I said, the issue is very polarised and there are few people willing to work together for a solution.

[old heart]

if you don't know about illegal numbers go look them up its wild shit

[velvet stone]

I think that’s under different legal frameworks like branding trademarks etc.
I can only think of the German words “geschmacksmuster” right now.

[mossy shoal]

also this is pointless since ai isnt human
laws and copyright apply only to people or people ran organisations

when you tell ai "generate pic of duck on boat" it's not you making the thing, it's ai combining fuckknow what from its dataset aimlessly

if you take copyrighted work and idk parody it, there's intent, there's you in the resulting work, with ai, there's nothing new

[mossy shoal]

those identifications are very vague iirc

[velvet stone]

But if I prompt the Ai to make a parody of something, there is intent.

Just like with a car, the manufacturer and the user are the responsible parties in quite similar fashions to that.

[mossy shoal]

there is not

if you tell your friend to draw something, it's not you making it, and the laws concern your friend and not you
same would/should be with ai, except ai isnt human, so it can't
and the parent company clearly has no intent either

[velvet stone]

I have the intent. The Ai performs.

If I take a picture with my phone, there are a ton of (AI) filters on that too. I never understood how that is copyright able, but if I create a prompt, perhaps even sketch something for img2img, and press generate, that’s somehow different and not copyright able.

[mossy shoal]

wrong thread

[fringe pagoda]

wrong thread

[languid folio]

is it

oh

fml

[normal knoll]

forge mod loader?

imagine not using neoforge

[languid folio]

you could say

[velvet stone]

But I’m not asking my Friend. Ai isn’t my friend. I’m operating a tool. I’m asking my car to drive me somewhere. And yes, I am responsible for my car’s actions.

[mossy shoal]

ai isn't your tool

[velvet stone]

Photoshop isn’t either.

[mossy shoal]

you are not responsible for chatgpt's or whatever actions

[normal knoll]

exactly it's AI

[mossy shoal]

if you run an image generator on your own gpus, congrats

[velvet stone]

I’m not responsible if my breaks fail, I lose control and crash into a crowd of school children. (Sorry about that, pushing boundaries here)

[mossy shoal]

you are

[pearl dew]

Partial support, letting people post ai generated is tacit encouragement of devaluing skills like the arts of which the process of creation is inherently valuable.

Imo if part of the comedy comes from the fact that it's AI generated then it's fine, like those uncanny animal videos, but it's probably annoying to have them be the only thing pumped out.

[velvet stone]

Not necessarily. But I also don’t agree that I’m not responsible for AI output that I promoted.

[mossy shoal]

you are responsible for posting it

not creating it

[velvet stone]

If I trigger the creation, I am responsible for it (to some degree)

[mossy shoal]

by that logic your parents are responsible for it

[drowsy garden]

I'm against this, just let the brainrot flow

[mossy shoal]

the one responsible for creating chatgpt's images, is openai

[velvet stone]

I don’t quite follow that logic?

Are my parents responsible for me, because they created me? Yeah. I agree. And I’m pretty sure they do too.

[drowsy garden]

It's the shitposting channel after all let people shitpost whatever they want as long as it's SFW and not political
Banning AI slop is banning a form of shitposting and internet culture

[mossy shoal]

slop is basically spam

[drowsy garden]

Like if y'all want this might as well ban all AI in the whole server otherwise it makes no sense

[velvet stone]

Can’t both be true?
They are responsible for it because they created the tool. I am responsible for what I do with it.

[mossy shoal]

so who gets to be copyright holder?

also ai isnt really tool in traditional sense

[pearl dew]

If we're arguing philosophy of creation then I don't think a commissioner is responsible for creating the work they commissioned, just that they told someone they wanted it to exist

[mossy shoal]

since with normal tools you always have control

[drowsy garden]

Tung tung sahur

[velvet stone]

The user

It’s not that different from photoshop really. They created the tool, I create the image. I hold the copyright.

[mossy shoal]

sure there is prolly some ai algorithm in my wacom tablet, but doens't change fact i have the ultimate control over it

[drowsy garden]

I don't think it matters here who owns the legal rights to those images, at all

[mossy shoal]

big problem of ai is that it's stealing

[pearl dew]

Prompting is sort of like the commission process if you think about it, just a mathematical function instead of an artist

[drowsy garden]

Welcome to: memes are all about stealing copyrighted work

[mossy shoal]

with photoshop you create (unless idk new photoshop they added gen ai too)
with gen ai you dont, you just tell it to do it and it does it on its own

[drowsy garden]

There's even memes with Nintendo stuff, don't see anyone suing

[mossy shoal]

i like piracy

[pearl dew]

Legally? Maybe, it's far from settled law.
Ethically? Only if you believe copyright is a valid form of ownership.

[mossy shoal]

but human > ai

[velvet stone]

I don’t disagree. But with a commissions lot of intent from the creator flows in, perhaps more than from the person who requested it in the first place.
Here it’s clear who provided intent. The person who prompted.

[drowsy garden]

Again, I don't think the usual arguments against AI even make sense here
Copyright doesn't apply to memes or shitposts, you can't call AI slop spam just because you don't like it, and it's not unethical to laugh at nonsense
And ESPECIALLY nobody's losing money on this, you can't say it hurts digital artists

[mossy shoal]

memes usually "steal" from just big companies

[pearl dew]

(it actually totally does apply it's just bad business to enforce it)

[mossy shoal]

but ai slop from everyone

[drowsy garden]

Enforcing it isn't fun police it's legit 1984 fun military 🫩

[velvet stone]

What is creating?
Arguably a lot more creating and creativity goes into prompting than into 90% of photographs.
I’m not saying photography isn’t art, I’m saying I took a walk an photographed some birds earlier and that is copyrighted.

[pearl dew]

Exactly it's PR suicide to dmca the baby Yoda image but they're well within their (legal) right

[pine bronze]

that ban doesn’t include pfps/banners/profiles right?

[idle yacht]

But AI can cause issues with copyright? Particularly when you have no idea what it was trained on. While not image generation - best recent example I can think of is the GZDoom controversy.

[bold dagger]

this isn't enforceable so I doubt it

[drowsy garden]

This is about banning AI memes, memes aren't subjected to copyright

[bold dagger]

it would be a waste of time to go through ~34,000 users and tell them to take AI content off of their profile, especially with how good AI image generation has gotten
it's at the point where I can't really tell the difference anymore and it kind of scares me

[velvet stone]

Keep in mind that the methods of creating changes too. Eg from 40 years ago on paper to when photoshop came out.

Pen and paper to machine instructions, clicks and mouse movements, some sliders. Why not add words?

[mossy shoal]

drawing on pen and paper is basically same as with tablet and stylus

both translate movement into the lines

in both the idea is translated to movenment by you

ai takes out even that

[idle yacht]

Doubtful, maybe does not happen often, but just because it is a meme - using copyrighted material in it can still cause issues.

[drowsy garden]

Again, did Nintendo ever sue the internet for a meme?
If you're going to bring up copyright issues in memes, Nintendo is the only company who would actually sue

[bold dagger]

^^^ copyright is copyright and it doesn't matter which context something is used in

most companies don't care

[velvet stone]

But tablet and stylus is more modern.

I’m talking about the beginning of digital art, before photoshop.

Suddenly art wasn’t paint on a canvas, but code, mouse clicks and values.
And now we can add words as a tool to create pictures too.

[mossy shoal]

too big to care about some slop memes

[mossy shoal]

mouse is basically same but clunkier
but hell even if you make art in svg, and write every coordinate manually, it's still you who translates idea into the resulting work

i dont believe ai to be incompatible with helping artist or being tool, but gen ai isnt it

[velvet stone]

It’s still me when I do the prompting. (Or as I said, provide a sketch, set the paramets, choose the model etc.)

And as you asked before, yes I’ve generated images on my own GPU before

[idle yacht]

Personally, I would not have such a big issue with AI if all content made with AI would always be marked that AI was used in its creation.

[drowsy garden]

I suppose that's fair

But still, banning AI slop memes is a massive overreaction

[mossy shoal]

ai adds watermark
uses another ai to remove it

[velvet stone]

It’s still my vision and intent that get turned into a picture. Superficially it’s the same as if I was drawing it, but of course the method is different.

[old heart]

if this happened it wouldn't be useful for a lot of the stuff it gets used for

[mossy shoal]

it's not

[velvet stone]

There can be hidden watermarks that aren’t obvious but can be verified

[idle yacht]

No, not in watermark way. I mean more akin to what Steam makes companies do with telling if AI was used in the creation of the game with a disclaimer.

[mossy shoal]

gl with that

[velvet stone]

But it is. Just the method is different. More advanced tool that does most of the work for me.
Kinda like a camera.

[old heart]

it's more analogous to claiming you made art you commissioned, tbh

[mossy shoal]

ig im just too not nihilist to believe people can be replaced and it being the same in end

[velvet stone]

I understand, and I’m not claiming that someone who prompts AI is an artist.
But this kinda took a detour into copyright ownership and from that standpoint I feel like as the person holding the intent and closest to the creation - the one clicking the button. I should be the owner/copyright holder. (If copyright is actually necessary)

[idle yacht]

I feel like AI artists can only really apply to people who used their own art to train a model and use it so generate more because technically they had to draw manually beforehand.

[mossy shoal]

or art they got permission to
or even if not their own art, but if they actually made the model

making ai models could be considered art

[idle yacht]

Well, if with permission I can somewhat see it, but my general consensus is still that the model should be generated from their art.

[velvet stone]

I don’t agree.

A lot of work can go into AI art (like not ChatGPT images, but like stable diffusion) and I don’t think manual drawings and effort should be part of the equation in the first place.

But to be completely honest, I don’t care about AI art in the first place.

Why I care about is the discussion on if AI is even allowed in the first place or not.

[mossy shoal]

i feel like if you make your own model, then it's excusable since you are actually adding something new
similar like parodies are fine even if you didnt made the original

[normal knoll]

with art you have permission to use though right?

[velvet stone]

I could cut up famous photographs, glue them on a canvas and it would be considered my art.

[drowsy garden]

With the sheer elitism in here I feel like AI will be banned entirely in like a week
All forms of it

[mossy shoal]

good

[idle yacht]

Would be great, but that will be difficult to enforce honestly.

[normal knoll]

i dont see how banning AI is elitist

[velvet stone]

I could take someone else’s painting, let a bunch of pidgins shit on it, and put it in a museum. (Yes, I’ve seen that somewhere).

But I can’t use AI in my art workflow? (Not to mention that half the photoshop stuff is AI, even before GenAI was a thing)

[velvet stone]

Because the main argument against it is to spend years on learning how to do it without AI. And the. Hours or days to actually do it.

[mossy shoal]

you can use ai

but if you replace yourself with ai, it's not "using"

[drowsy garden]

And the fact that many people here think it's unethical or something idk

[idle yacht]

...because something done by yourself is way better than having AI do it for you? Like I heard someone say "I'd rather take shitty MS Paint art over AI generated image."

[mossy shoal]

there is bunch of assistive ai in every paint program

[velvet stone]

Quite literally it is?
But I’m happy with the acknowledgement that it’s fine to use.

[mossy shoal]

gen ai isnt

[drowsy garden]

Better morally, not better in terms of quality
ChatGPT can write a hello world program in ASM better than I can because idk ASM

[mossy shoal]

i'd said that before somewhere

hell i'd rather see stick figures drawn in mud than ai slop

[idle yacht]

When I commission artists I usually even draw in paint a really bad example since even if I can't draw it is still more fun than generating things.

[velvet stone]

Sure, that is their subjective opinion.

But like, imho it’s better to generate an image for use with D&D than to steal it from google images.

I won’t draw it myself because I’m not happy with the result and I don’t even have the time to do it.

So I’m left with either nothing or AI.

[mossy shoal]

ultimate the core of making art is same whether you use paper, mud and stick, ms paint, krita, gimp, emacs, idk
making ai do it for you is something else, not art

[velvet stone]

IMHO generating things is fun and you can provide bad examples as well - all the same fun.

But like, I don’t even want to argue against commissioning an artist. So you do you.

[vague verge]

I personally oppose a total AI ban

My stance is we should have a Debian server approach to AI in support threads, where if you've just mindlessly used AI you will be expected to restart from scratch

I think a total ban is unenforceable

[drowsy garden]

Opinions are inherently subjective

[drowsy garden]

I agree with this

[drowsy garden]

But not this, since this place is full of AI haters
If mods won't enforce it, sheer elitism will

Which is why I'm against banning AI, I don't want this place to have yet another echo chamber of elitism

[vernal crown]

See the other thread btw

[drowsy garden]

https://discord.com/channels/399812551963049995/1437089968895037510 this? Already saw it

[idle yacht]

I think they mean the AI in support channels one?

[vernal crown]

Yes

[vernal crown]

I mean the other thread

The one that is still hot topic

[velvet stone]

It anymore. It’s locked now. Lol.

[drowsy garden]

I'm still against banning AI and brainrot

[gleaming lichen]

thats not skibidious of you

also huh

[hearty shale]

Too late

[drowsy garden]

Wdym

[hearty shale]

Elitism? Ask anyone why Linux is better than windows, rather than serves different purposes

Almost all the people that I hear using hyprland cannot explain why they are using it without mentioning something arbitrary.

[normal knoll]

...the spyware?

[idle yacht]

Obviously because Microsoft bad

[hearty shale]

^how is that not elitism? I mean it's not wrong but it's two tiered. Not an attack against Sakura

[idle yacht]

Haha, I mean it is my opinion, but that comment was made more of as a general joke.

[vernal crown]

Please don't derail the thread

[drowsy garden]

I suppose

[hearty shale]

Have a good day.

[vernal crown]

You can argue all day long on #tech-general if you want with the windows dev

[quiet briar]

100% support, shitpost should come from a human brain, not machines

[drowsy garden]

No thanks

[rain prawn]

Mitsuki 6/6 🎵 received a thank you cookie!

[hearty shale]

Don't derail right? This isn't talking about the issue? What is the issue again? I forgot.

[vernal crown]

Read the thread title

[hearty shale]

I did, how is elitism talking about AI slop? That's fine that you don't like me, don't take it out on me.

[vernal crown]

Idk how those are related to this thread

When thread is about banning it for the sake of improving server quality

[drowsy garden]

What quality vro 😭😭

[hearty shale]

Actual the title says banning AI slop not improving Server quality.

[mossy shoal]

people are alive beings, gen ai is mockery of the aliveness itself

[vernal crown]

Don't blame me, I'm interpreting this thread

[drowsy garden]

I'm not alive

[hearty shale]

You are the one saying don't derail, but you are interpreting.

[drowsy garden]

I died 200 years ago

[normal knoll]

..so dont tell other people that your way is the correct way then

[drowsy garden]

Guys chill 💔

[vernal crown]

Interpreting a topic is not derailing

[drowsy garden]

Compiling a topic >>

[hearty shale]

You are enforcing your interpretation.

[mossy shoal]

do you know vlad tepes perchance?

[idle yacht]

Pretty sure the original poster had an issue with AI slop being spammed in #urandom

[mossy shoal]

yeah it was hijacked for support

so this one was made again

[hearty shale]

I don't care. AI Slop or no AI slop it won't change the quality of the server. Like I said, have a good day.

[vernal crown]

I'm with OP anyways

[mossy shoal]

tho i believe ai slop should be banned in every channel

if anything urandom is least bad place to have it in

[idle yacht]

Pretty sure that simply goes against general rules of keeping slop in #urandom

[drowsy garden]

He's my uncle

[mossy shoal]

oh yeah

[hearty shale]

Agreed, next question define AI slop.

[normal knoll]

anything made by an LLM

[drowsy garden]

Again, with the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if both AI and brainrot get banned server wide

[mossy shoal]

generative ai, mayhaps outside of cases where you try use it to answer something for you which imho still is bad but is something else

[mossy shoal]

image generators, video, songs mostly

[idle yacht]

Pretty sure the "answer something" part is what people primarily want to ban in support channels as per the other thread.

[hearty shale]

Some people's lives are no different than the quality from an LLM, so how can I tell between a low quality post and AI slop.

[mossy shoal]

i for one will like the party and ministry of truth

[normal knoll]

what does that mean

the first part makes no sense

[mossy shoal]

if big brother will stop ai, i welcome big brother

[hearty shale]

Then what would your answer be for the second part.

[idle yacht]

a low quality post is not made with AI so at least there is a human factor to it..?

[mossy shoal]

that's just insulting

[hearty shale]

Prove that it came from a human?

[drowsy garden]

Who cares who made it honestly
Shitposts are shitposts

[normal knoll]

can you explain what they were saying, im kind of confused

[mossy shoal]

im not nihilist, even if ai makes better quality than human, it's worse, i don't believe people can be reduced to nothing with only machine remaining

[idle yacht]

Pretty sure the insulting part is that they compared people to LLMs

[mossy shoal]

even stick figure in mud is better than ai "art"

[hearty shale]

But how can you tell if you are going to enforce it?

[normal knoll]

oh eugh that is insulting

[mossy shoal]

maybe im just good but it's usually tellable so far

but doenst matter much if false negative happens, false positive however wouldnt be nice

[hearty shale]

I am saying that some people parrot information rather than understanding it. So if you ban LLMs, then you need to determine low quality thinking vs AI.

[drowsy garden]

Not really, I can confirm this #1437070542103511041 message for myself

[mossy shoal]

llm is more complex topic, generative ai is worse

[drowsy garden]

Ohhh

[hearty shale]

GenAI and image gen and memes, banned, no problem from me. But the support side was the original concern.

[mossy shoal]

no it wasnt

[idle yacht]

You need to be more specific about what you mean by "parrot information".

[mossy shoal]

original was banning ai slop images/videos in urandom

[hearty shale]

What? What was the original vote on?

[mossy shoal]

the vote wasnt the original

[tough igloo]

Okay so please explain to me, what about AI's being able to make art make it so humans can't make art?

[hearty shale]

Im so confused

[mossy shoal]

first was thread about banning ai image slop in urandom, then that thread was hijacked for support and vote made

then this thread was remade

[mossy shoal]

idk because AI can't

[drowsy garden]

Is the porcelain industry preventing anyone from making traditional clay pots? No

[hearty shale]

Fair enough, I don't care about urandom as long as it stays in urandom.

[tough igloo]

And people that want to make clay pots still make clay pots lmfao

[hearty shale]

Ummm ^derailing, mods? /S

[tough igloo]

The people who would rather that be done for them don't?

[mossy shoal]

porcelan industry doesnt try to remove people out of equasion

well ig nowadays i seen cups and stuff with ai generated images so idk 🤢

[tough igloo]

I don't know why everyone views humans as some special creative snowflakes and AI art as encroaching on our sacred creative territory

[drowsy garden]

...fully automated factories

[mossy shoal]

the reverse thinking leads to nihilism, i dont like nihilism

[hearty shale]

I thought religion/politics wasn't allowed

[mossy shoal]

?

[tough igloo]

It's not nihilism to say humans aren't inherently special

[hearty shale]

How is this on topic?

[mossy shoal]

but anyways art is different than thing you really only get for utilisiation

[hearty shale]

We haven't defined AI slop.

[mossy shoal]

atleast any ai image video or song where the ai was the thing that converted words to result
it could include more ig but im sure of this

[drowsy garden]

Pottery is art, idk what your point is

[drowsy garden]

AI slop can be very funny

[hearty shale]

So keep it in urandom?

[mossy shoal]

it can be

[drowsy garden]

That's my point, but this thread is about banning it in urandom too

[hearty shale]

I don't understand why we needed a vote on this? Or even a thread? Just yes. Moving on.

[idle yacht]

No, the issue is that it is being spammed in #urandom. It already has to be kept in there.

[mossy shoal]

i believe urandom should be place for brainrot of high quality

[hearty shale]

Well then that's just stupid. Let the kidrens be.

[hearty shale]

Ragebait. /s

[languid folio]

How lovely it would be if we could have good memes and good content in there?

[drowsy garden]

People just want all AI and brainrot banned in this server and idk why

[tough igloo]

Because AI bad >:(

lol

[drowsy garden]

Memes are the pinnacle of absolute internet idiocy and lack of anything constructive by definition

[hearty shale]

If you hide it, then you wont be able to identify it when you see it.

[mossy shoal]

million 67 or whatever brainrot is nowadays memes over single ai generated meme

[languid folio]

They are something to laugh at. Which isnt pointless.

[hearty shale]

Make a /b/ channel and move on?

[languid folio]

But with the current state of urandom, well..

[mossy shoal]

b channel?

[hearty shale]

You need a sandbox for the kids to play in.

[drowsy garden]

They provide nothing intelectualul constructive so they're not of any quality

[mossy shoal]

lets send them to microsoft discord server

[languid folio]

Not everything in life has to have a point

[hearty shale]

This is a dangerous line of thinking.

[mossy shoal]

ever seen dadaism?

[languid folio]

Lets invade it like we invaded r/linuxsucks

[mossy shoal]

that's art movenment that explictily rejects any meaning

[hearty shale]

Also 4chan

[drowsy garden]

Exactly, let people shitpost anything they want in #urandom as long as it's not illegal

[mossy shoal]

oh god

[hearty shale]

So where do people post their high brow AI slop mêmes then?

[mossy shoal]

people should shitpost, not the machine

[tough igloo]

Didn't Beksinski leave his paintings unnamed because he didn't want them to be assigned meanings?

[languid folio]

As I said, would be lovely to have some good content in there instead of having the disgusting content it has right now

[mossy shoal]

shitposting is something people should do rather than electrical box

[mossy shoal]

idk much of them tbh

[tough igloo]

Okay I'm actually curious, why?

What's special about people over an electrical box

[hearty shale]

Have you talked to the average user? I couldn't tell the difference

[mossy shoal]

machine is just bunch of transistors programmed to do something

ai cant think

[tough igloo]

We are just a bunch of neurons programmed to do something, aren't we?

[drowsy garden]

Humans are just carbon bonds linked in an array

[hearty shale]

And? Some people can't either

[mossy shoal]

so we can't decide at all?

does free will not exist?

[hearty shale]

Does that array start at 0? If not I am disappointed

[tough igloo]

Actually, no. Free will does not exist and that's pretty much a psychological fact lol

[mossy shoal]

i dont like nihilism

[hearty shale]

Define free

[drowsy garden]

Yes

You're right

[mossy shoal]

not pre-determined/random

[hearty shale]

You keep using this word, I do not think it means what you think it means

[tough igloo]

Seriously this is not nihilism

[drowsy garden]

There's no such thing as free will and there's no such thing as chance, everything is perfectly linear and predictable as quantum physics shows it

[tough igloo]

Nihilism is saying there is no meaning and no point

I believe meaning is self-assigned

[mossy shoal]

if everything is predetermined or random, there is no point

[hearty shale]

Good. I like this, this is a good thing.

[mossy shoal]

if there's no free will, there's no meaning

[hearty shale]

That's Religion.

[tough igloo]

Then that's because you have assigned no meaning. I however will find meaning no matter the circumstances :)

[drowsy garden]

Who even cares this is going off topic anyway

[mossy shoal]

how will you find it

[tough igloo]

Life is meaning

[hearty shale]

I haven't noticed

[mossy shoal]

if people are nothing more than bunch of neurons and ai is the same but silicon, can ai find meaning?

[tough igloo]

Honestly, yeah

Isn't that basically what AGI is

[mossy shoal]

computer is all preprogramed or random though

[drowsy garden]

Can you?

[mossy shoal]

wouldnt then, the meaning, be just illusion?

[hearty shale]

How can you tell the difference between kids and AI? Especially if they parrot information from Google which is AI?

[idle yacht]

Yes, but like - humanity is really far from making AGIs

[tough igloo]

Is the fact you can't immediately tell whether someone online is a human or an AI not proof enough that humans are not special?

[hearty shale]

If the words are formed from a person rather than copy and paste from LLM, but the same level of reasoning and processing comes directly from the AI, how would you be able to tell?

[hearty shale]

I mean, the same thing can be said between ragebait and a legitimate argument?

[tough igloo]

I honestly don't know what that's supposed to mean

I think the repercussions of the two situations are different

[hearty shale]

I was actually asking, not calling what you said ragebait

[drowsy garden]

Y'all do know the fundamentals of both humans and LLMs is to mix and match everything around them, right? Humans can't invent something entirely new overnight, it took us 10k years to reach what we have today, it was all just a result of mix and match errors

[mossy shoal]

computers have all logic either predetermined or random (or well mix biases and stuff), are people the same?

[tough igloo]

This is why I think all the AI hate and hate against AI art is people just scared to come to terms with what they actually are

[drowsy garden]

Saying LLMs just copy paste stuff is irrelevant, if you don't teach a human how to do something they can't do it as you would expect

[hearty shale]

So why is the conversation about AI vs no AI slop if we can't tell the difference

[drowsy garden]

Pretty much

[mossy shoal]

try make chatgpt draw wine glass full of wine

[hearty shale]

That literally not what I said.

[south vine]

I have a question about the poll, I understand banning AI for people responding to support requests. My question is what about the support requester using AI?
eg

• “I also tried asking ChatGPT for support on this, it told me to do X, but that didn’t work”,
• or maybe they’re some of the people that they put their text thru LLMs to translate
• or do it to have better grammatically correct writing
  To me, I don’t think we should ban those use cases of LLMs, it’s questionable but understandable depending on context.

[idle yacht]

Pretty sure AI art hate came from the thought that AI would replace boring jobs and let people be creative, but we go the reverse.

[drowsy garden]

There is no difference, if you could project your imagination onto paper 1:1 you wouldn't be able to make the difference between human construct and AI construct

[tough igloo]

It does suck it hasn't replaced boring jobs, but it can get there, and even if it is creative, humans can still be creative?

[mossy shoal]

if thinking is all predetermined/random or mix of these, then everything you think you decided is illusion and all meaning you find is illusion, isn't that sad?

[tough igloo]

If tomorrow monkeys became great artists, no one would throw down their brushes in anger and declare they can't paint anymore

[hearty shale]

Because people have become too creatively inept

[drowsy garden]

Lmao

[hearty shale]

Monkeys are already great artists

[mossy shoal]

elephants too

[tough igloo]

I just... don't care? Like if happiness is an illusion then I guess it's an illusion, I still feel happy.

[idle yacht]

Maybe? But honestly that discussion would veer towards politics and economy so not really the place to discuss it.

[drowsy garden]

Welcome to reality

[hearty shale]

What is gained from the ban of AI slop in urandom?

[drowsy garden]

Learn quantum physics then come back with a valid argument

[mossy shoal]

that's just sad

[hearty shale]

Someone was talking about nihilism, that's going to end up in the same place too.

[drowsy garden]

There's no meaning, there's only linear and 100% predictable action

Anyway back on topic, js let us shitpost AI slop in #urandom

[tough igloo]

LOL

[hearty shale]

Anyways, back to the mangled rail to get this train back on track, why do we care?

[idle yacht]

Nihilism is not religion? It is a philosophical view.

[tough igloo]

Welcome to Arch Linux's Discord, where we went from AI slop to the meaning of life

[hearty shale]

What's the difference?

[drowsy garden]

There's no expectation of quality in shitposting
If you expect quality shitposting then you expect something other than shitposting

[tough igloo]

^ Agreed

Even if I hated AI I'd think the ban is silly

[drowsy garden]

Lemme pull out my quantum physics shit rq

[hearty shale]

Banning requires resources. The mod team is small enough as it is.

/end of conversation TBH

[tough igloo]

I just don't see what's gained either, we get 5% more quality shitposts?

[drowsy garden]

This vote would do much better if it was "ban shitposting in urandom" rather than "ban AI slop in urandom"

[tough igloo]

What is the end goal

[drowsy garden]

AI slop is a form of shitposting

[hearty shale]

There really is no difference in my opinion

[drowsy garden]

Just elitists thinking their opinions matter more than anything else on this planet

There's no goal here whatsoever

[idle yacht]

https://discord.com/channels/399812551963049995/1437089968895037510

[hearty shale]

Wait, you can't say anything real or true, that's illegal

[tough igloo]

It does feel like some sort of moral obligation or something

We need to ban it because it's bad >:(

[drowsy garden]

Cuz it IS it's literally just anti AI elitism and nothing else

There's not even any sort of valuable argument to be brought to the table

Shitposts are shitposts, period

[hearty shale]

I still cannot tell the difference between AI and some users. So you'll never be able to ban only AI Slop, low quality or not. All you would do is raise the quality by banning anything at a threshold

[tough igloo]

^

I'm an AI

[languid folio]

Shitposting is usually funny, and therefore, encouraged. While AI slop is not funny, but rather noice and annoying

[tough igloo]

None of you noticed

[mossy shoal]

you arent

[drowsy garden]

Raising the quality of something that's designed to be of very poor quality is putting sprinkles on sewage water 😭

[hearty shale]

Honestly I didn't care one way or the other

[hearty shale]

Have you talked to some users? I mean I feel sorry for you having to talk to me.

[drowsy garden]

Ignore it, most people hate shitposting as a whole

[drowsy garden]

What

[languid folio]

or, you could say that its an argument

[tough igloo]

This seems to be saying "all bad shitposts are AI slop", which just isn't true

All shitposts are bad, that's what makes them shitposts

[drowsy garden]

Elitism is never an argument, there used to be many people who hated clocks out of sheer elitism when they first appeared because they deemed sun dials as superior
This isn't a joke, look it up

[tough igloo]

The lack of effort makes it funnier, so it being AI honestly enhances it

[languid folio]

I said usually shitposts are funny

[hearty shale]

So high or Medium quality AI slop is or is not shit posting?

[tough igloo]

^

And is this enforceable? How do we deal with false positives and the ones that get through? This is really just a "You need a shitpost at least this good to enter"

[drowsy garden]

I don't understand the argument of quality control here, shitposts literally means rock bottom quality

[mossy shoal]

it's cause ai is shit

[hearty shale]

That's what I said fellow AI agent.

[hexed notch]

am i allowed to ask specifics about the poll in #announcements here?

[languid folio]

but they can be funny yoo

[drowsy garden]

By setting a bar to this you're dismissing shitposting

[languid folio]

theres another one for that

[drowsy garden]

AI slop can also be funny to some, what's your point?
If you don't like it, ignore it

[idle yacht]

I recommend just waiting on the better poll in the future as per the comment in the original thread.

[hearty shale]

How can you address the difference between human shitposts and AI slop?

[languid folio]

nvm its locked now

[drowsy garden]

You don't, because then it's no longer shitposting

[languid folio]

It is posted like spam there. All the good content gets hidden

[drowsy garden]

What good content are you hallucinating 🥀

[idle yacht]

This one will probably be too considering how often we veered from the main topic.

[tough igloo]

The thing is, this is a linux discord. Do we really need to burden the small moderation team with moderating shitposts?

Like come on

[drowsy garden]

Legit this

[languid folio]

good memes? Funny shitposts?

[tough igloo]

If anything the channel should be marked NSFW and become a no mans land

[drowsy garden]

Shitposts are shitposts, doesn't matter who makes them

[drowsy garden]

Bruh

[hearty shale]

What we need is uparch and downarch buttons and then we rank it by those votes and oh, wait, that's just Reddit

[mossy shoal]

people are divine beings, ai is sand, sand has no right to speak in our holy tongue

[tough igloo]

Correction: I'm a divine being

[drowsy garden]

Get religion outta here cuh 😭💔

[drowsy garden]

Lmao

[hearty shale]

Good vs bad content is a subjective thing as well. We either let the AI slop go or we define the level of slop that deserves to be posted. Just make it where any post with 20 arch emotes is removed. OR WHATEVER NUMBER.

[languid folio]

That sounds like a pretty good solutiom

[mossy shoal]

you are person

[tough igloo]

I'm good at carpentry and don't know who my father is

Just saying

[hearty shale]

We need channels like this. Good old fashioned discussion with ragebaiting and derailing

Smells like my childhood

[idle yacht]

Literally #urandom?

[mossy shoal]

could you fix up my roof?

[hearty shale]

I would honestly prefer 4chan, not going to lie.

There is only 2 fewer hyprland references there

[hexed notch]

unironically like

what's the point of this vote

the whole point of #urandom is to divert all the shit i dont want to see away from the other channels

including ai slop

[idle yacht]

This specific channel? There is no vote just the thread

[hexed notch]

so i dont care what gets posted in #urandom

[idle yacht]

The only vote is about AI in support channels (aka that is the priority right now)

[hexed notch]

well the idea of banning posting ai slop

is what's being discussed in this thread right?

or am i misunderstanding

[idle yacht]

like 20% of the time?

I mean the original post said specifically that people dislike AI slop being spammed in #urandom and wants it banned.

But at least from what I get - slop already has to go only to #urandom so in a technical sense it would be a blanket ban on AI generated images/videos due to no real other places to post them.

[tough igloo]

How did I even end up in this channel I use NixOS

Why am I here

[idle yacht]

This is Arch Linux Community so does not really matter if you do not use Arch Linux

[hearty shale]

What is linux OS?

[daring juniper]

Nah
OG #linux

[tough igloo]

You use a functional language to declare your system

If you want to know more my DMs are open :)

Always willing to try to convert someone

[hearty shale]

NixOS is a program language?

[tough igloo]

NixOS is a linux distro where you declare everything about your system with Nix, a programming language.

It's significantly more complicated than that but that is the basics

[hearty shale]

But it's not arch right?

[tough igloo]

No

Not a downstream or upstream of arch

well, ofc it's not upstream

wait, is downstream even the right term?

[hearty shale]

Okay, so confused why you are here?

[tough igloo]

I used to use arch

Also why not

[hearty shale]

I mean, happy to have you but.....

You asked it yourself

[tough igloo]

Yeah you sound it

Lol

Kidding

Nah idk I just haven't left and saw this thread and thought might as well jump in

It's not arch related

[vale mica]

Arch spaces are useful to be around even if you don't use arch. Usually contains a lot of people who know a lot.

[grave dune]

I love AI